i notice that when i do NYC races in central park (freddiemac 5K most recently) i become terribly asthmatic after about a mile. i don’t have this problem in the NJ suburbs where i live and run other races. i am on asthma medications (serevent, flovent and nasonex.) and these do a good job for me. wondering if it’s the air quality in central park. -rei
wondering if it’s the air quality in central park.
It could very well be. I would think the ground level pollution is higher in NYC (more concentration of cars) than in the suburbs…particularly in the warmer months. For example, I used to have chronic bronchitus when I lived in the city. When I moved to NJ the problem cleared up. Johanna "forever young" Young
Hi all — I wanted to report my pleasure with my Gurney’s black-stripe sunflowers. The plants are about 6 feet tall and vigorous, but for a change the flowers do not bend down and face the ground. The flower heads are smaller than some varieties, but hold themselves up very well. They look just fantastic! I hope the birds will find and harvest them. KeziaK Northern VA
I would like to second that sunflower rave. I have generic sunflowers, dont knnow what type, I first planted them about 5 or 6 years ago in a small plot on the edge of my garden about 12 x 12, every year they have re seeded. I look forward to the blue jays that cruise by every fall for a few weeks and feast. Its a sustainable sunflower bed. Except of course for the roundup I spray every spring to clear out the weeds, the 2,4-D I use to clear out the broad leaf stuff, and the insecticides I use 3 or 4 times a year just to be on the safe side. NOT. Hi all — I wanted to report my pleasure with my Gurney’s black-stripe sunflowers. The plants are about 6 feet tall and vigorous, but for a change the flowers do not bend down and face the ground. The flower heads are smaller than some varieties, but hold themselves up very well. They look just fantastic! I hope the birds will find and harvest them. KeziaK Northern VA
– Ken Toews * In life effects are certainty while causes Stay Hungry, Stay foolish <<
Aztek hands down?
Jeez, I heard someone bot one !
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Aztek hands down?
Aztek hands down?
‘58 Buick Limited ‘59 Olds
That aztek reminds me of what a scaled-down version of the Family Truckster might look like……wonder if they have the Pea Green color
the Olds Achieva
the Olds Achieva
Oh, they are not all that attractive, but I would not say they were the UGLIEST thing GM ever came up with. With all due respect to the folks who like ‘em I had an Achieva on rental for a couple of days about 3 years ago. A real nothingburger of a car. But no, I don’t think it was that ugly…
No question, it’s the Aztec. A GM screw-up of global thermo-nuclear proportions. I just hope that among those 2000+ GM executives who are being forced by the General to drive the things around Detroit are numbered the idiot-laden committees that approved the thing for production. It makes the Edsel Ranger look tasteful and refined. Yuck! — – GRL "When someone annoys you, remember that it takes 42 muscles to frown, but only 4 muscles to extend your arm and smack them on the back of the head."
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Aztek hands down?
That aztek reminds me of what a scaled-down version of the Family Truckster might look like……wonder if they have the Pea Green color
I think you CAN get a Aztek in metallic pee.
The Achieva really looks good nowadays. neat profile. at first i hated the design. now after a few years, they look neat.
No question, it’s the Aztec. A GM screw-up of global thermo-nuclear proportions. I just hope that among those 2000+ GM executives who are being forced by the General to drive the things around Detroit are numbered the idiot-laden committees that approved the thing for production. It makes the Edsel Ranger look tasteful and refined.
I find myself wondering: how long a run is GM gonna make of those before closing up production? You mentioned the Edsel Ranger. Well, the Edsel got a lot of mocking in the press by various columnists, TV personalities, and all that. I have heard no such similar mocking of the Aztek. Does anyone have any sales figures on that beast?
I find myself wondering: how long a run is GM gonna make of those before closing up production?
You have to wonder, especially with vehicle sales going in the crapper as of recent.. As strange as they are, however, I’ve seen more then a few driving around here locally, so apparently _someone_ is buying them.. Personally, I like the front end, could live with the side view, but the rear-end is just too bizzare for even me, and I’m pretty forgiving when it comes to "Different" vehicles.. Take the new Impala, for instance.. When it first came out everybody screamed bloody murder about the rear taillights.. I never "Hated" them, persay, but they did have to grow on me, and now I envy the car quite alot, and the fact that the plant here in Oshawa can’t make them quickly enough speaks volumes towards the fact that they are selling like hotcakes…. Now, if only I could afford one.. 
— Mark – Oshawa, Ontario, Canada Chevy Astro / GMC Safari Message Board! Click Below! http://pub37.ezboard.com/bchevyastroandgmcsafari
Hands down is right! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Aztek hands down?
……and GM scraped Olds with decent looking cars! RJL
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – No question, it’s the Aztec. A GM screw-up of global thermo-nuclear proportions. I just hope that among those 2000+ GM executives who are being forced by the General to drive the things around Detroit are numbered the idiot-laden committees that approved the thing for production. It makes the Edsel Ranger look tasteful and refined. Yuck! — – GRL "When someone annoys you, remember that it takes 42 muscles to frown, but only 4 muscles to extend your arm and smack them on the back of the head." Aztek hands down?
…….and GM scraped Olds with decent looking cars!
Decent to very nice, and that were not selling.
That aztek reminds me of what a scaled-down version of the Family Truckster might look like……wonder if they have the Pea Green color
More like a kid’s playhouse on wheels…
That aztek reminds me of what a scaled-down version of the Family Truckster might look like……wonder if they have the Pea Green color More like a kid’s playhouse on wheels…
When I was a youngster, they had these big compacting trash trucks running around in Los Angeles. They were White trucks, and the compactor unit was Leach. When I first saw an Aztek from the back, it brought back the picture in my mind of those trucks.
……and GM scraped Olds with decent looking cars!
Debatable.. But decent looking or not, they were poor sellers. Olds was nothing but a Cancer for GM.. It’s not something they needed to keep around. — Mark – Oshawa, Ontario, Canada Chevy Astro / GMC Safari Message Board! Click Below! http://pub37.ezboard.com/bchevyastroandgmcsafari
Debatable.. But decent looking or not, they were poor sellers. Olds was nothing but a Cancer for GM.. It’s not something they needed to keep around.
Hmmm, this is true. I’m 24 years old and a die-hard Oldsmobile fan. But, as an Economics major, I have to agree it was a good idea to kill Oldsmobile as a division. I’ve watched the auto industry for several years now. I’ve noticed that Buick seems to be trying to change it’s stodgy-traditional image of being a "old person’s" car. Here you have the latest array of concept cars and the new Rendezvous "SUV" aka minivan with a defined front end. If Buick is not able to change it’s image, I can only see it taking the highway to auto heaven with Oldsmobile in a few years. I mean GM is obviously moving towards two main divisions, Chevrolet-Chevrolet Trucks and Pontiac-GMC. Cadillac and Saturn both have their niche in the marketplace that is well defined. Unfortunately, GM has been very slow at meeting customers’ demands and the import competition. So, it only makes sense that traditional brands such as Oldsmobile and Buick be euthanized. Now, I mentioned that I am an Oldsmobile fan. So, IMHO, it will be missed. I thought the Olds cars were heading in the right direction design-wise. Now that Olds is dead, I really have to question my loyalty to GM. I mean, what kind of management do you have when you take one of the top selling American nameplates to demise in less than two decades. Then again, there is GM’s SUV obsession. Most people would agree that due to rising insurance rates and gas prices as unstable as a southern California faultline, the SUV craze has seen it’s zenith. Unless GM can find a way to dump the tortoise attitude at meeting the customers’ demands, it’s market share will only continue to dwindle. Anyway, I will get off my soap box now. I just had to vent. Take care and God bless, Jeremy
Why not just keep Cadillacs, Chevrolet, Park Avenues, Grand Ams and Prix’s. Everything else is duplication or doesn’t sell. Have different handling/tire packages available on Chevrolets to please people who want handling or floating. Market share is going to go down to maybe 25%, they couldn’t even figure out how to market their best driving car line. Current new Olds owners for their next car probably won’t go for boyracer Pontiacs or floating Buicks, but they may use their $1500 vouchers for Chevys if they need to save the cash instead of getting that Maxima, Jetta, or Accord they really want to get.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ……and GM scraped Olds with decent looking cars! Debatable.. But decent looking or not, they were poor sellers. Olds was nothing but a Cancer for GM.. It’s not something they needed to keep around. — Mark – Oshawa, Ontario, Canada Chevy Astro / GMC Safari Message Board! Click Below! http://pub37.ezboard.com/bchevyastroandgmcsafari
That aztek reminds me of what a scaled-down version of the Family Truckster might look like……wonder if they have the Pea Green color More like a kid’s playhouse on wheels…
More like a scaled-down municipal trash truck. DS
Nah, 1967 Bel Air, I had one of those battleships. Yeesh!!! About as long as a football field, no shape. The Aztec is not my favorite, but I don’t think that it is that bad. Personnaly, I think the Ford Focus is about the ugliest thing on the road now. Aztek hands down?
– See ya!!! Danman
I agree, I think you will see automobile manufacturers start to streamline their lineups. I mean, what is the use in making the same vehicle with minor cosmetic changes and selling it under 5 different names (import and domestic names I might add). It just doesn’t make good financial sense to do that. With so many automobile manufacturers getting in bed together (Ford, Mazda, Nissan) (GM, Honda, Isuzu, Toyota) (Chrystler, Mitsubishi), brands have really become a thing of the past. We kinda have generic vehicles now that are some sort of bastardization of several different manufacturers. I think you would be hard pressed to find a car true to it’s name anymore. I have a Nissan Pickup. It was built in a Ford plant with parts supplied by Nissan that were made in Tennessee. Eventually, I think you may see GM be reduced to Chevrolet, Cadillac, and maybe Pontiac. They could go after the Buick/ Olds market with some lower line Cadillac’s. It seems as if they are putting all of the performance vehicles under the Pontiac flag, and Chevy is going after the daily driver/ economical vehicles. Chrystler is killing Plymouth. I expect that it is only a matter of time before Ford kills Mercury. Certainly this trend will continue over the next 10 years. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Debatable.. But decent looking or not, they were poor sellers. Olds was nothing but a Cancer for GM.. It’s not something they needed to keep around. Hmmm, this is true. I’m 24 years old and a die-hard Oldsmobile fan. But, as an Economics major, I have to agree it was a good idea to kill Oldsmobile as a division. I’ve watched the auto industry for several years now. I’ve noticed that Buick seems to be trying to change it’s stodgy-traditional image of being a "old person’s" car. Here you have the latest array of concept cars and the new Rendezvous "SUV" aka minivan with a defined front end. If Buick is not able to change it’s image, I can only see it taking the highway to auto heaven with Oldsmobile in a few years. I mean GM is obviously moving towards two main divisions, Chevrolet-Chevrolet Trucks and Pontiac-GMC. Cadillac and Saturn both have their niche in the marketplace that is well defined. Unfortunately, GM has been very slow at meeting customers’ demands and the import competition. So, it only makes sense that traditional brands such as Oldsmobile and Buick be euthanized. Now, I mentioned that I am an Oldsmobile fan. So, IMHO, it will be missed. I thought the Olds cars were heading in the right direction design-wise. Now that Olds is dead, I really have to question my loyalty to GM. I mean, what kind of management do you have when you take one of the top selling American nameplates to demise in less than two decades. Then again, there is GM’s SUV obsession. Most people would agree that due to rising insurance rates and gas prices as unstable as a southern California faultline, the SUV craze has seen it’s zenith. Unless GM can find a way to dump the tortoise attitude at meeting the customers’ demands, it’s market share will only continue to dwindle. Anyway, I will get off my soap box now. I just had to vent. Take care and God bless, Jeremy
– See ya!!! Danman
Awesome on the inside, but ugly on the outside.! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Aztek hands down?
I first time I saw one (aside from a dealer lot-many in stock) was on a return trip from the airport after dropping my brother off for an early morning return flight the day after Christmas. It was still dark and I wondered what the ugly vehicle was ahead of me. Up to this point my focus on the Astek being ugly was the front end. Well the rear end deserves its portion of criticism also. This is the only time I have seen an Astek on the road. Hopefully the Buick version will look better. BTW, I do like some other designs most others dislike. I liked the 96-99 Taurus and the new Maxima and even like its rear end styling. Dave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Aztek hands down?
Aztek
I dunno. The new Monte Carlos and Impalas look pretty goofy. "It’s a crazy world, have fun with it." -Jerry Springer "Remember, when someone annoys you that it takes 42 muscles to frown, but it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and whack them in the head." – unknown What is a Team Goon? http://www.teamgoon.com My Personal page: http://teamgoon.i85.net FORMAL NOTICE: unsolicited commercial email will be read at a charge of $500 per item. Harvesting of my email address, and receipt of such email shall be considered to constitute acceptance of contract, and will be billed immediately.
I also brush my teeth after taking my flovent – I have yet to get Thrush Tim Washington State
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : yeah, but don’t you want to avaoid getting thrush? Using an extender tube has greatly reduced my problem in my mouth and stomach from inhaled steroids. — Gordon W5RED www.couger.com/gcouger "You miss 100 percent of the shots you never take." – Wayne Gretzky
Because it’s on the insurance company’s list and Flovent isn’t? More trouble to get you authorized for Flovent. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I f Flovent works better, then why would my doctor want me to switch to Pulmicort? : Flovent tastes like crap… I hate that stuff…but it works. Flovent causes me a lot less troubles than pulmacort and works better. The tast is not nears as bad as a lot of things I remember. Witicha Falls, Texas water stands out in my mind for bad tasting things. — Gordon W5RED www.couger.com/gcouger "You miss 100 percent of the shots you never take." – Wayne Gretzky : : -J : : Hey, I’m using Flovent right now, but my doc wants me to switch over to : Pulmicort, but I don’t feel comfortable with it. With Pulmicort, unlike : Flovent, you don’t taste the medicine. How do you know for sure (short : of : an asthma attack) that you are getting the med? : : By the lack of asthma attacks. : : BTW, sometimes I can detect a faint taste of the medication. : : : : "Keep looking below surface appearances. Don’t shrink : from doing so (just) because you might not like what : you find." : General Colin Powell : :
Because it’s on the insurance company’s list and Flovent isn’t? More trouble to get you authorized for Flovent.
It is debatable which is better. Pulmicort has less systemic exposure due to rapid metabolism in the liver. Also the delivery device eliminates the need for a spacer. Personally, I use Flovent more because I think my patients are more used to the MDI and I try to get them to use the spacer for the other MDI’s as well. There doesn’t have to be an insidious reason for the recommendation to switch. If it is due to formulary reasons I think the doctor should be excused for not fighting a switch to a drug that is as good, if not better. — CBI, M.D. Please note: It is impossible to accurately diagnose medical problems without seeing the patient and reviewing the entire history. These posts are intended to be helpful and informative. Always check with your doctor before following any advice given.
yes, that works, but does it work with Pulmicort?
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : yeah, but don’t you want to avaoid getting thrush? Using an extender tube has greatly reduced my problem in my mouth and stomach from inhaled steroids. — Gordon W5RED www.couger.com/gcouger "You miss 100 percent of the shots you never take." – Wayne Gretzky
I used Maxair and Asthmacort successfully for 12 years. Last year at this time, my asthma started causing me trouble. And this has gotten steadily worse over the year. Question 1: Do these drugs become ineffective after long-term use?
Typically, no. However if your asthma changes then they may no longer be adequate. Question 2: If Asthmacort is no longer effective for me, will Pulmicort do any good?
I stopped using Azmacort a long time ago. I have been on Pulmicort for about a year now and have had great success. "Keep looking below surface appearances. Don’t shrink from doing so (just) because you might not like what you find." General Colin Powell
I used Maxair and Asthmacort successfully for 12 years. Last year at this time, my asthma started causing me trouble. And this has gotten steadily worse over the year. Question 1: Do these drugs become ineffective after long-term use? Question 2: If Asthmacort is no longer effective for me, will Pulmicort do any good? -Daniel Before you buy.
Hey, I’m using Flovent right now, but my doc wants me to switch over to Pulmicort, but I don’t feel comfortable with it. With Pulmicort, unlike Flovent, you don’t taste the medicine. How do you know for sure (short of an asthma attack) that you are getting the med?
By the lack of asthma attacks. BTW, sometimes I can detect a faint taste of the medication. "Keep looking below surface appearances. Don’t shrink from doing so (just) because you might not like what you find." General Colin Powell
Flovent tastes like crap… I hate that stuff…but it works. -J
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey, I’m using Flovent right now, but my doc wants me to switch over to Pulmicort, but I don’t feel comfortable with it. With Pulmicort, unlike Flovent, you don’t taste the medicine. How do you know for sure (short of an asthma attack) that you are getting the med? By the lack of asthma attacks. BTW, sometimes I can detect a faint taste of the medication. "Keep looking below surface appearances. Don’t shrink from doing so (just) because you might not like what you find." General Colin Powell
Hey, I’m using Flovent right now, but my doc wants me to switch over to Pulmicort, but I don’t feel comfortable with it. With Pulmicort, unlike Flovent, you don’t taste the medicine. How do you know for sure (short of an asthma attack) that you are getting the med? By the lack of asthma attacks. BTW, sometimes I can detect a faint taste of the medication. When I was on Pulmicort I knew that I was receiving med. because I had
thrush. think about it. Pam – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "Keep looking below surface appearances. Don’t shrink from doing so (just) because you might not like what you find." General Colin Powell
yeah, but don’t you want to avaoid getting thrush?
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey, I’m using Flovent right now, but my doc wants me to switch over to Pulmicort, but I don’t feel comfortable with it. With Pulmicort, unlike Flovent, you don’t taste the medicine. How do you know for sure (short of an asthma attack) that you are getting the med? By the lack of asthma attacks. BTW, sometimes I can detect a faint taste of the medication. When I was on Pulmicort I knew that I was receiving med. because I had thrush. think about it. Pam "Keep looking below surface appearances. Don’t shrink from doing so (just) because you might not like what you find." General Colin Powell
: yeah, but don’t you want to avaoid getting thrush? Using an extender tube has greatly reduced my problem in my mouth and stomach from inhaled steroids. — Gordon W5RED www.couger.com/gcouger "You miss 100 percent of the shots you never take." – Wayne Gretzky
: Flovent tastes like crap… I hate that stuff…but it works. Flovent causes me a lot less troubles than pulmacort and works better. The tast is not nears as bad as a lot of things I remember. Witicha Falls, Texas water stands out in my mind for bad tasting things. — Gordon W5RED www.couger.com/gcouger "You miss 100 percent of the shots you never take." – Wayne Gretzky : : -J
: : Hey, I’m using Flovent right now, but my doc wants me to switch over to : Pulmicort, but I don’t feel comfortable with it. With Pulmicort, unlike : Flovent, you don’t taste the medicine. How do you know for sure (short : of : an asthma attack) that you are getting the med? : : By the lack of asthma attacks. : : BTW, sometimes I can detect a faint taste of the medication. : : : : "Keep looking below surface appearances. Don’t shrink : from doing so (just) because you might not like what : you find." : General Colin Powell : :
I f Flovent works better, then why would my doctor want me to switch to Pulmicort?
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : Flovent tastes like crap… I hate that stuff…but it works. Flovent causes me a lot less troubles than pulmacort and works better. The tast is not nears as bad as a lot of things I remember. Witicha Falls, Texas water stands out in my mind for bad tasting things. — Gordon W5RED www.couger.com/gcouger "You miss 100 percent of the shots you never take." – Wayne Gretzky : : -J : : Hey, I’m using Flovent right now, but my doc wants me to switch over to : Pulmicort, but I don’t feel comfortable with it. With Pulmicort, unlike : Flovent, you don’t taste the medicine. How do you know for sure (short : of : an asthma attack) that you are getting the med? : : By the lack of asthma attacks. : : BTW, sometimes I can detect a faint taste of the medication. : : : : "Keep looking below surface appearances. Don’t shrink : from doing so (just) because you might not like what : you find." : General Colin Powell : :
Hey, I’m using Flovent right now, but my doc wants me to switch over to Pulmicort, but I don’t feel comfortable with it. With Pulmicort, unlike Flovent, you don’t taste the medicine. How do you know for sure (short of an asthma attack) that you are getting the med?
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I used Maxair and Asthmacort successfully for 12 years. Last year at this time, my asthma started causing me trouble. And this has gotten steadily worse over the year. Question 1: Do these drugs become ineffective after long-term use? Typically, no. However if your asthma changes then they may no longer be adequate. Question 2: If Asthmacort is no longer effective for me, will Pulmicort do any good? I stopped using Azmacort a long time ago. I have been on Pulmicort for about a year now and have had great success. "Keep looking below surface appearances. Don’t shrink from doing so (just) because you might not like what you find." General Colin Powell
Excellent post Gordo thats why my GI told me not to take it on tx. I wouldn’t want to take anything that could give a false reading on my labs while on tx. No way! Juanita
Thanks for passing that on, Gordo. Should I or shouldn’t I? The answer is only one phone call away. Call or no call? Naw, I don’t wanna know. Elmo //////////// I think I was the one who started this last year when I was on tx. Here’s the background: We use a family of enzymes called "Cytochrome P450" (or "CYP") to get rid of a lot of substances (such as many drugs) from our bodies. The amount of a drug (such as ribavirin) that you take and how often you take it is based on how fast your body gets rid of it. You need a certain amount in you for the drug to work, and the faster your body gets rid of it the more you have to take, and you have to take it more often. So if I’m taking a drug that is metabolized by a CYP, and I take another drug that changes how that CYP works (slows it down or speeds it up) then there’s the potential that I could end up with way too much of the first drug (because it’s not getting cleared as fast) or too little (because it’s getting cleared too fast.) Possible overdose, or the drug just won’t work. It gets kind of technical but if you like this stuff I thought this site was a good overview: http://www.anaesthetist.com/physiol/basics/metabol/cyp/cyp.htm#all Milk Thistle has repeatedly been shown to impair one of the CYP enzymes – CYP3A4 – and had a significant impact on the metabolism of several substances that are metabolized by that enzyme. This is exactly the same situation that has caused many toxic drug interactions. Where it gets confusing is that these studies are done using liver cells in cultures and there’s one study that looked for, and didn’t find, the same effects in people. So what’s this mean for people on treatment? From: http://www.drugs.com/PDR/Ribavirin__USP_Capsules.html "Results of in vitro studies using both human and rat liver microsome preparations indicated little or no cytochrome P450 enzyme-mediated metabolism of ribavirin, with minimal potential for P450 enzyme-based drug interactions." So there doesn’t seem to be a potential for interaction with Ribavirin. Same thing for pegasys: "Peginterferon-a -2a (40kD) showed no significant effects on drug metabolism mediated by CYP2C9, 2C19, 2D6 and 3A4 isoenzymes in healthy nonsmoking male volunteers." (from http://janis7hepc.com/differences_between_pegasys_and.htm) People on tx tend to take a lot of other drugs, though, and this site lists a lot of drugs that use the same enzyme that Milk Thistle, in the lab, has been shown to inhibit: http://www.catie.ca/supple-e.nsf/0/7b09aa55a412896c85256c6e0070bf60?O… ocument The effects of Milk Thistle are mostly based on "I took it and it made my liver better" reports, and by looking at its activity in cells in test tubes – the same type of test tubes that show it has a negative interaction with some other drugs (meaning of someone is going to use the argument that the test tube studies don’t apply to bodies, they have to admit that it applies to the supposed benefits as well.) One recent clinical study which attempted to show some benefit to using it found none at all: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/05/050504003425.htm So end result: there is no predicted interaction with interferon or ribavirin. There is a possible interaction with a lot of other drugs that people on tx take (and that I was taking). A recent study shows that it doesn’t seem to have the beneficial effect that people have been saying it has. I decided not to take it. Gordo In article <L9nwe.5387$Bn6.179@trndny08
, "john" <otk…@hotmail.com
wrote: To be honest, everyone in the group is saying it’s not good to take milk thistle while on interferon and the doc said its fine.With the vast knowledge from this group i have learned more in 2 days here then 9 monthes with the doctor.Thanks everyone…… "AguaGirl" <some…@somewhere.com
wrote in message
news:RYGdnWWn6JIr9FzfRVn-iA@adelphia.com… <elmoemer…@webtv.net
wrote in message
news:10915-42C08C99-698@storefull-3256.bay.webtv.net… ahahahahahahahahaha!!! If it was good for good ole AG, it must be good for you. Her response to you defies what many knowledgable experts on the matter have stated. Milk thistle has a history of interfering with the absorbtion of other drugs and it’s not known for sure if it has the same negative effect on combination drugs, but many of the hepc experts recommend not taking it while on tx. Why chance it? AG’s response isn’t so much about milk thistle as it is about disagreeing with me. LOL. As she said though, do your research and you’ll see there’s been much speculation about whether you should take milk thistle and do tx at the same time. Elmo Your wrong elmo. I honestly don’t give you much thought one way or the other….and I didn’t say it was good for everyone. I basically said there is disagreement in the medical community about milk thistles interaction with the tx. You are not a doctor nor am I. John has a doctor. What I told John was to run EVERYTHING he reads or hears past his doctor which is what I did. (which is why I continued to take it). Your first post sounded definitive. The case against milk thistle is speculative…which is exactly what I said and what you parroted in your reply. I didn’t even disagree with what you posted at first, merely said it wasn’t ‘fact’ as much as speculation. AG http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/DocElmosHepFile http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/TheFamilyAlbum
In article <10915-42C08C99-…@storefull-3256.bay.webtv.net
,
elmoemer…@webtv.net wrote:
Milk thistle has a history of interfering with the absorbtion of other drugs and it’s not known for sure if it has the same negative effect on combination drugs, but many of the hepc experts recommend not taking it while on tx. Why chance it?
The active ingredient in Milk Thistle has the _potential_ to interfere with a liver enzyme which is used by the body to metabolize many different drugs. One study with one anti-HIV Protease Inhibitor showed that taking it with Milk Thistle somewhat reduced the amount that was absorbed from one dose but most importantly, when levels of the PI were measured at the "trough" point – right before the next scheduled dose – it was an average of 25% and as much as 60% lower than it should be. That’s significant and bad and could lead to resistance. So even though some people take it with other meds with no apparent problems, there is evidence that the potential it has to interfere is very real. Seems to me that something of such unproven benefit – which at least one study has shown to have no benefit – that has the potential to cause problems isn’t something I’d want to take while taking other serious meds. From: http://www.catie.ca/supple-e.nsf/0/7b09aa55a412896c85256c6e0070bf60?O… ocument ————— Below is a short list of some other medications that are processed through the CYP3A4 enzyme. Based on the effect of milk thistle on liver enzymes in the lab, it is possible that levels of these medications may increase if taken by people who are also using milk thistle. This list is not exhaustive:
napi said: "The reason I wrote was for any other ways of getting his motivation up so when he gets his grades back and gets back to gymnastics, he will still have the motivation to continue to do his work." I would urge you, as strongly as I can, to NOT look at this as a motivation issue.
I would urge you, as strongly as I can, to NOT look at this as a motivation issue. Napi is asking:
What kind of issue is it? I am pulling at strings here. I am wondering, why it wouldn’t be a motivational problem when he can discuss things and do reports that are interesting to him? I don’t know what you mean.
"What kind of issue is it? I am pulling at strings here. I am wondering, why it wouldn’t be a motivational problem when he can discuss things and do reports that are interesting to him? I don’t know what you mean." Because this "interest" thing is a "red herring" when it comes to ADHD. We don’t choose what we’re interested in. The topic or activity chooses us. By that I mean –we have a narrower path we can walk on these things. The topic has to go to strong interests of ours, feed into a talent or ability of ours — some special quality has to be there. We can’t get interested in the causes of WWII just because the history teacher assigned it. It’s very hard to explain if you don’t have ADHD, but it isn’t motivation, and it isn’t "choice."
Hi. I am new here. can you help me with the hundreds of questions I have about diagnosing ADD? My son is 8 and we have started testing him. After filling out surveys, meeting with teachers, and going to the doctor,I am still very unsure about the whole thing. ( so is the doc.) The school seems convinced he has ADD but I’m not. I want to do everything I possibly can for my son. But how do you really know its ADD? I hear other parents know without a doubt and are thankful for meds. any advice or opinions would be priceless. Sorry this note is going to be so long but I wanted to comment on the sports thing. Both my kids have been in tae kwon do for about a month. I think it is an excellent program that ADDers can benifit from. They have a unique way of motivating a kid(or adult) if you go to the right school. I wont ramble on with all the details but its worth checking into.
He knows about his condition. There is a wonderful site called brain wiring on the web. We looked at it and there was an interesting article about how ADDers are more like the hunters of old, focus had to shift easily and lots of other cool things that made hime feel better. We took him out temporarily from sports. When he brings his classwork to present and for 2 weeks of getting all work done, he can go back to his sport. It is not a team like sport so the gym knows what is going on and has a place still for him. He has a plan on the fridge door and knows his chores. He does them. The only problem we are having is school work. It isn’t wierd, I know, but it makes him feel different. Knowing that he has no ambition for this school thing. He wants to be a scientist when he grows up and we keep informing him that he needs school to get where he wants to be. He understands, just doesn’t want to go through the steps to get there.
Just a comment here…. I did original scientific research even tho it wasn’t the field in which I obtained a degree. With luck and brains (and more LUCK!) he/she may get to do what he wants. I did a tremendous amount of reading in the field I found most interesting, on my own time, but it paid off.
I would like to thank you all for all of your input. The discontinuing sports is only going to be temporary. Maybe 3 weeks. He is in gymnastics. His place in class is being held. I do realize that sports are very important to him and to me. I love to see him excel in something he loves. Not many ADDer children get a chance to smile at school because they have been "pegged" as a bad kid or for not listening. It is wonderful to see him go wild and have fun and not get in trouble for being active. And that it should not be taken away. So we told him that the sport is on hold for his classwork. He knows and understands what his fast little brain is going through. He is smart enough and has been taught cause and effect. He understands that the act of not getting his work done will effect his ability to go and do something he loves. As it stands right now, he was taken out on Jan 12th. His back class work is almost current and he is doing his best in class to get things turned in on time. Sports was used as a last resort. We tried to give him as much possibilities for bringing up his classwork. Since he has been out of sports, that is the only thing that did motivate him to buckle down, and get it done. The reason I wrote was for any other ways of getting his motivation up so when he gets his grades back and gets back to gymnastics, he will still have the motivation to continue to do his work. I do again thank you and if anyone has any suggestions still, I would love to hear them.
I have read that as a general rule, rewards and punishments do not work well for ADD children. They sure didn’t for us. ADDers sometimes simply *can’t* do the work–motivated or not.
I think this is a very valid statement: At least in my own ADD experience, I have found that all too often, the very academic subject areas in which I am MOST interested and/or initially excited about turn out to be the areas in which I have the most trouble staying focused, completing the work, keeping up. I don’t know why this is; it certainly doesn’t make sense. Actually, I do in fact have a theory or two as to why I do this, but it’s kind of hard to explain… Furthermore, I wanted to comment on the following: "Not to be flip, but I do not have ADD, and when I’m not interested in something, I don’t have much motivation either. So, to me, this actually sounds normal." I think you’re very right in pointing this out, Nancy. In the past, you have stated yourself that often, ADDers posting in here can get a bit carried away in their analysis of personality types, behaviors, ways of thinking, etc…. And as a result, there seems to be a tendency to over-classify such traits as being completely ADD-related, when in fact they aren’t uncommon traits among the general population. I’m not trying to criticize or anything – I know that I personally tend to observe a quirk of mine, and then assume that it is a part of my ADD, even though it may not be… and then sometimes, it’s just really hard to tell… So anyway, Nancy, I just wanted to let you know, that I really appriciate having the non-ADDer point of view on certain topics — It helps keep things in perspective megan
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Have you tried discussing with him what his condition is? Also, if he is shown how learning can help him in the future, with an example of how he would benefit it might get him to see the big picture. Additionally, helping you son to schedule his days can help to keep him on a path of remembering, and prioritizing certain daily activites that need to be accomplished. Placing the schedule in a place that is plain view (i.e. the frig, or on his door) will also help with accountability. However, taking him out of sports may have an affect on his motivation. If he has no serious physical outlet where he can see some form of progress, or strive towards a goal that he can reach physically, then he will have no motivation for those things that are more cerebral than physical, thusly he will not completely grasp complex concepts, unless he has a desire to do so. Just some thoughts from an old ADD’er He knows about his condition. There is a wonderful site called brain
wiring on the web. We looked at it and there was an interesting article about how ADDers are more like the hunters of old, focus had to shift easily and lots of other cool things that made hime feel better. We took him out temporarily from sports. When he brings his classwork to present and for 2 weeks of getting all work done, he can go back to his sport. It is not a team like sport so the gym knows what is going on and has a place still for him. He has a plan on the fridge door and knows his chores. He does them. The only problem we are having is school work. It isn’t wierd, I know, but it makes him feel different. Knowing that he has no ambition for this school thing. He wants to be a scientist when he grows up and we keep informing him that he needs school to get where he wants to be. He understands, just doesn’t want to go through the steps to get there.
Hi!! I’m new here and have a 10 year old with ADHD. He is smart a whip, both his teachers and the principal at school say so. He has interests, and when school is talking about something he is interested in, he listens, participates, and is exteremely vocal is discussion. The problem is when he is not interested, he has no motivation.
Not to be flip, but I do not have ADD, and when I’m not interested in something, I don’t have much motivation either. So, to me, this actually sounds normal. Can someone help with ideas & pointers? I have taken him out of sports because of his grades.
My 16 yo ADD son has always been active in sports (since he was a preschooler.) When I have talked to different school counselors and to doctors over the years about the wisdom of taking him out of sports (hoping that would either: 1. motivate him to work harder in school, or 2. spend more time on his school work), *every* advisor said, "Don’t do it. He needs sports." Yes, school should come first, but school isn’t everything. Physical activities, like sports, aren’t *rewards.* They should be part of every child’s life. All kids should have a physical outlet. Kids like my son especially need the physical outlet. Sports provide that AND structure, and supervision. Sports taught him lessons in cooperation and teamwork, good sportsmanship, responsibility, grace under pressure, working hard for a goal. Sports gave my son a chance to be successful. A boost to his self-esteem and self-confidence. Something he needs after the mental and psychological exhaustion of trying to deal with academics. Also, at least in our case, taking away something he liked to motivate him to do something he didn’t, never worked. We did take away some other things he liked, like TV. But, eventually, we had taken away just about everything that gave him some joy, and all he had, except for sports, was a life of dreary (to him) school work and chores. No wonder he felt so bad. Sports just got my son his first two jobs. He referees youth soccer games and he has just been hired as a soccer instructor. He loves both jobs! It’s wonderful to see him so enthusiastic about working. I told him when he gets his grades up, he can go back. I have tried a rainbow of things for encouragement, king for a day, movie day, out with mom day, out with dad day, computer time, etc. The motivation is not there.
I have read that as a general rule, rewards and punishments do not work well for ADD children. They sure didn’t for us. ADDers sometimes simply *can’t* do the work–motivated or not. They also have difficulty linking actions to consequences. I have asked the school to try and tie things in that he is interested in with the lessons. Its just that not all,or most, kids like the subjects that he likes. So they really cannot do that. None of us (school, my son, myself, my husband) would like to see him be retained this year. But that is what we are looking at if he doesn’t work hard. I work with him at least 1hr a day with back work and extra credit. It may not help though. Please if anyone has any suggestions, I would really appreciate it.
I wish I could offer you a solution. So many of us have struggled with academic issues. Maybe it’s time for you and the school to revisit his IEP if he has one, or his 504 plan. Sounds like he may need more classroom support and accommodations. Nancy Unique, like everyone else
napi said: "This is me again. Nothing out of the ordinary is going on at home. He does his chores. He loves animals. He plays when his homework is done. He is a normal 10 year old boy. We thought he was depressed. So we took him to psychiatrists. They said he is not. Which is good. We do not want him on more medication than absolutely necessary. We thought putting him in a sport he was interested in would help. It didn’t work, now he is not in sports because of his grades." Please — this is a DEVASTATINGLY bad outcome. I urge you to rethink the notion that you "don’t want him on more medication than absolutely necessary." If meds will help here — they really sound ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY to me… this is a terrible experience for your son he’s going through.
The problem is when he is not interested, he has no motivation. A common feature of ADD is that ADDers very nearly *can’t* pay attention when they aren’t interested. Providing rewards won’t change it, because it isn’t about not caring or not wanting to do well.
Nod, but meds do help this with me, at least. At that point, I *CAN*, even if I don’t really want to. It can be hard to tell the "damn, but I really don’t want to do this" from the "damn, I’m trying to do this and can’t".
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi!! I’m new here and have a 10 year old with ADHD. He is smart a whip, both his teachers and the principal at school say so. He has interests, and when school is talking about something he is interested in, he listens, participates, and is exteremely vocal is discussion. The problem is when he is not interested, he has no motivation. Can someone help with ideas & pointers? I have taken him out of sports because of his grades. I told him when he gets his grades up, he can go back. I have tried a rainbow of things for encouragement, king for a day, movie day, out with mom day, out with dad day, computer time, etc. The motivation is not there. I have asked the school to try and tie things in that he is interested in with the lessons. Its just that not all,or most, kids like the subjects that he likes. So they really cannot do that. None of us (school, my son, myself, my husband) would like to see him be retained this year. But that is what we are looking at if he doesn’t work hard. I work with him at least 1hr a day with back work and extra credit. It may not help though. Please if anyone has any suggestions, I would really appreciate it. Thank you This is me again. Nothing out of the ordinary is going on at home. He does his chores. He loves animals. He plays when his homework is done. He is a normal 10 year old boy. We thought he was depressed. So we took him to psychiatrists. They said he is not. Which is good. We do not want him on more medication than absolutely necessary. We thought putting him in a sport he was interested in would help. It didn’t work, now he is not in sports because of his grades. He does get punished when he does wrong. But he doesn’t get spankings. Only for the fact that he is getting older and talking about what needs to be done for punishment seems to make him think more about what he has done. As I have said before, he gets his medication [Dexedrine 10mg bid] and he seems to be ok for quieting down. He just doesn’t have any motivation when not interested. Behavior modifications include leneancy regarding writing [print not cursive], doing less written work more verbal, frequent "rest periods" at home from work. Don’t get me wrong, we don’t baby him, we just know that simple modifications help focus. But not lately. It is like he has grown out of modifications. Do you get what I mean?
Have you tried discussing with him what his condition is? Also, if he is shown how learning can help him in the future, with an example of how he would benefit it might get him to see the big picture. Additionally, helping you son to schedule his days can help to keep him on a path of remembering, and prioritizing certain daily activites that need to be accomplished. Placing the schedule in a place that is plain view (i.e. the frig, or on his door) will also help with accountability. However, taking him out of sports may have an affect on his motivation. If he has no serious physical outlet where he can see some form of progress, or strive towards a goal that he can reach physically, then he will have no motivation for those things that are more cerebral than physical, thusly he will not completely grasp complex concepts, unless he has a desire to do so. Just some thoughts from an old ADD’er
" A common feature of ADD is that ADDers very nearly *can’t* pay attention when they aren’t interested. Providing rewards won’t change it, because it isn’t about not caring or not wanting to do well. Nod, but meds do help this with me, at least. At that point, I *CAN*, even if I don’t really want to. It can be hard to tell the "damn, but I really don’t want to do this" from the "damn, I’m trying to do this and can’t".
And also, one shades into the other. There’s the area where "I could do this if I threw every ounce of effort at it, but it isn’t important enough for that."" I find this a very interesting conversation because I have students on my caseload with ADHD and have observed this in a couple of them. Instead of calling them lazy (I am pretty sure that wouldn’t improve things — smile) I have told them — "Look, you have ADHD, and this is one of the things ADHD can do to you — it can keep you from getting interested in an assignment you have to do." This is particularly a problem in longer assignments, and my students will read and write about one topic for weeks at a time… So we are actively working together to find personal devices they can use to increase their interest in a necessary but uninteresting task.
I have taken him out of sports because of his grades.
I just wanted to say this may not be the best idea. Physical activity is very important for ADDers. It helps them focus and burn off the stress of life.
I have taken him out of sports because of his grades.
"I just wanted to say this may not be the best idea. Physical activity is very important for ADDers. It helps them focus and burn off the stress of life." I absolutely agree. I don’t know how I would have gotten through high school if I hadn’t been involved in sports. I know that competitive athletics benefited me on several levels: Besides being an excellent stress outlet and just plain healthy, it provided me with more confidence than anything probably has in my life yet. Also, it allowed for some great social/friendship delvelopments. Something else not to overlook is the discipline and the **structure** that comes with athletic training and being on a team. THAT is definitely something that I lacked (but craved) in the rest of my life, but quickly embraced when it came to sports. megan
Hi EmmaAnne, My own personal experience would dictate that you keep your child in sports if at all possible. Of course this is only one person’s observation, but clearly my 17 yo son did much better in school while participating in football last fall. At the conclusion of the season and for 2 full weeks, he didn’t turn in any homework what-so-ever. Needless to say he dropped from an A-B student to a D-E(F) in a real short order. I always figured that sports were a real great thing for him (social, esteem and fitness), but I never witnessed such a clear direct relationship between sports and grades. It just caught me off guard when the football season ended and he suddenly didn’t have that to kinda anchor his life. Hopefully you will have a better experience than I. My general advice to ADD parents is to keep the kids busy!!! FWIW. Regards,
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have taken him out of sports because of his grades. I just wanted to say this may not be the best idea. Physical activity is very important for ADDers. It helps them focus and burn off the stress of life.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The problem is when he is not interested, he has no motivation. A common feature of ADD is that ADDers very nearly *can’t* pay attention when they aren’t interested. Providing rewards won’t change it, because it isn’t about not caring or not wanting to do well. Nod, but meds do help this with me, at least. At that point, I *CAN*, even if I don’t really want to. It can be hard to tell the "damn, but I really don’t want to do this" from the "damn, I’m trying to do this and can’t".
And also, one shades into the other. There’s the area where "I could do this if I threw every ounce of effort at it, but it isn’t important enough for that."
decided it would be nice to share this stuff with the rest of us: —-I’m new here and have a 10 year old with ADHD. He is smart a whip, both his —-teachers and the principal at school say so. He has interests, and when —-school is talking about something he is interested in, he listens, —-participates, and is exteremely vocal is discussion. The problem is when he —-is not interested, he has no motivation. Can someone help with ideas & —-pointers? I have taken him out of sports because of his grades. I told him —-when he gets his grades up, he can go back. I have tried a rainbow of —-things for encouragement, king for a day, movie day, out with mom day, out —-with dad day, computer time, etc. The motivation is not there. I have —-asked the school to try and tie things in that he is interested in with the —-lessons. Its just that not all,or most, kids like the subjects that he —-likes. So they really cannot do that. None of us (school, my son, myself, —-my husband) would like to see him be retained this year. But that is what —-we are looking at if he doesn’t work hard. I work with him at least 1hr a —-day with back work and extra credit. It may not help though. Please if —-anyone has any suggestions, I would really appreciate it. —- —-If anyone’s got help for this, I’d like to know, as I’m extremely —-unmotivated as well. I just can’t be bothered to put much effort int —-things I don’t like. Threats or incentives are absolutely useless. —-Everything is, it seems. My parents tried both threats and incentives, the reality is, I’m as stubborn as most Germans can be and the ADD helps me dig in even more 
This Kid is just being difficult, what else is going on at home? I kinda feel that you are telling me your kid is getting wet, and you forgot to tell me that he is standing in the rain, so I can’t be of much assistance. "Education is the Progressive Discovery of our own Ignorance" -Will Durant "People who read the Tabloids deserve to be lied to" — Jerry Seinfeld "You don’t Know what you got ’till it’s Gone" — Joni Mitchell "I’m Just a soul whose intentions are Good … " — Eric Burden
The problem is when he is not interested, he has no motivation.
A common feature of ADD is that ADDers very nearly *can’t* pay attention when they aren’t interested. Providing rewards won’t change it, because it isn’t about not caring or not wanting to do well. — "Why do they call you the Warrior Princess?" "Ceasar was already taken" Xena: Warrior Princess
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m new here and have a 10 year old with ADHD. He is smart a whip, both his teachers and the principal at school say so. He has interests, and when school is talking about something he is interested in, he listens, participates, and is exteremely vocal is discussion. The problem is when he is not interested, he has no motivation. Can someone help with ideas & pointers? I have taken him out of sports because of his grades. I told him when he gets his grades up, he can go back. I have tried a rainbow of things for encouragement, king for a day, movie day, out with mom day, out with dad day, computer time, etc. The motivation is not there. I have asked the school to try and tie things in that he is interested in with the lessons. Its just that not all,or most, kids like the subjects that he likes. So they really cannot do that. None of us (school, my son, myself, my husband) would like to see him be retained this year. But that is what we are looking at if he doesn’t work hard. I work with him at least 1hr a day with back work and extra credit. It may not help though. Please if anyone has any suggestions, I would really appreciate it. If anyone’s got help for this, I’d like to know, as I’m extremely unmotivated as well. I just can’t be bothered to put much effort int things I don’t like. Threats or incentives are absolutely useless. Everything is, it seems.
Exactly!!! My son gets behavior modification (leaway) and still nothing.
Hi!! I’m new here and have a 10 year old with ADHD. He is smart a whip, both his teachers and the principal at school say so. He has interests, and when school is talking about something he is interested in, he listens, participates, and is exteremely vocal is discussion. The problem is when he is not interested, he has no motivation. Can someone help with ideas & pointers? I have taken him out of sports because of his grades. I told him when he gets his grades up, he can go back. I have tried a rainbow of things for encouragement, king for a day, movie day, out with mom day, out with dad day, computer time, etc. The motivation is not there. I have asked the school to try and tie things in that he is interested in with the lessons. Its just that not all,or most, kids like the subjects that he likes. So they really cannot do that. None of us (school, my son, myself, my husband) would like to see him be retained this year. But that is what we are looking at if he doesn’t work hard. I work with him at least 1hr a day with back work and extra credit. It may not help though. Please if anyone has any suggestions, I would really appreciate it. Thank you
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi!! I’m new here and have a 10 year old with ADHD. He is smart a whip, both his teachers and the principal at school say so. He has interests, and when school is talking about something he is interested in, he listens, participates, and is exteremely vocal is discussion. The problem is when he is not interested, he has no motivation. Can someone help with ideas & pointers? I have taken him out of sports because of his grades. I told him when he gets his grades up, he can go back. I have tried a rainbow of things for encouragement, king for a day, movie day, out with mom day, out with dad day, computer time, etc. The motivation is not there. I have asked the school to try and tie things in that he is interested in with the lessons. Its just that not all,or most, kids like the subjects that he likes. So they really cannot do that. None of us (school, my son, myself, my husband) would like to see him be retained this year. But that is what we are looking at if he doesn’t work hard. I work with him at least 1hr a day with back work and extra credit. It may not help though. Please if anyone has any suggestions, I would really appreciate it. Thank you
This is me again. Nothing out of the ordinary is going on at home. He does his chores. He loves animals. He plays when his homework is done. He is a normal 10 year old boy. We thought he was depressed. So we took him to psychiatrists. They said he is not. Which is good. We do not want him on more medication than absolutely necessary. We thought putting him in a sport he was interested in would help. It didn’t work, now he is not in sports because of his grades. He does get punished when he does wrong. But he doesn’t get spankings.
Only for the fact that he is getting older and talking about what needs to be done for punishment seems to make him think more about what he has done. As I have said before, he gets his medication [Dexedrine 10mg bid] and he seems to be ok for quieting down. He just doesn’t have any motivation when not interested. Behavior modifications include leneancy regarding writing [print not cursive], doing less written work more verbal, frequent "rest periods" at home from work. Don’t get me wrong, we don’t baby him, we just know that simple modifications help focus. But not lately. It is like he has grown out of modifications. Do you get what I mean?
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – First question–what treatment is he receiving? — — — John Reply to jclarke at eye bee em dot net Hi!! I’m new here and have a 10 year old with ADHD. He is smart a whip, both his teachers and the principal at school say so. He has interests, and when school is talking about something he is interested in, he listens, participates, and is exteremely vocal is discussion. The problem is when he is not interested, he has no motivation. Can someone help with ideas & pointers? I have taken him out of sports because of his grades. I told him when he gets his grades up, he can go back. I have tried a rainbow of things for encouragement, king for a day, movie day, out with mom day, out with dad day, computer time, etc. The motivation is not there. I have asked the school to try and tie things in that he is interested in with the lessons. Its just that not all,or most, kids like the subjects that he likes. So they really cannot do that. None of us (school, my son, myself, my husband) would like to see him be retained this year. But that is what we are looking at if he doesn’t work hard. I work with him at least 1hr a day with back work and extra credit. It may not help though. Please if anyone has any suggestions, I would really appreciate it. Thank you
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I’m new here and have a 10 year old with ADHD. He is smart a whip, both his teachers and the principal at school say so. He has interests, and when school is talking about something he is interested in, he listens, participates, and is exteremely vocal is discussion. The problem is when he is not interested, he has no motivation. Can someone help with ideas & pointers? I have taken him out of sports because of his grades. I told him when he gets his grades up, he can go back. I have tried a rainbow of things for encouragement, king for a day, movie day, out with mom day, out with dad day, computer time, etc. The motivation is not there. I have asked the school to try and tie things in that he is interested in with the lessons. Its just that not all,or most, kids like the subjects that he likes. So they really cannot do that. None of us (school, my son, myself, my husband) would like to see him be retained this year. But that is what we are looking at if he doesn’t work hard. I work with him at least 1hr a day with back work and extra credit. It may not help though. Please if anyone has any suggestions, I would really appreciate it.
If anyone’s got help for this, I’d like to know, as I’m extremely unmotivated as well. I just can’t be bothered to put much effort int things I don’t like. Threats or incentives are absolutely useless. Everything is, it seems.
First question–what treatment is he receiving? — — — John Reply to jclarke at eye bee em dot net
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi!! I’m new here and have a 10 year old with ADHD. He is smart a whip, both his teachers and the principal at school say so. He has interests, and when school is talking about something he is interested in, he listens, participates, and is exteremely vocal is discussion. The problem is when he is not interested, he has no motivation. Can someone help with ideas & pointers? I have taken him out of sports because of his grades. I told him when he gets his grades up, he can go back. I have tried a rainbow of things for encouragement, king for a day, movie day, out with mom day, out with dad day, computer time, etc. The motivation is not there. I have asked the school to try and tie things in that he is interested in with the lessons. Its just that not all,or most, kids like the subjects that he likes. So they really cannot do that. None of us (school, my son, myself, my husband) would like to see him be retained this year. But that is what we are looking at if he doesn’t work hard. I work with him at least 1hr a day with back work and extra credit. It may not help though. Please if anyone has any suggestions, I would really appreciate it. Thank you
Gee, for as second I thought I’d written all of this. Randor
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <<A cheapo kitchen count down timer does wonder for me, 1. The impending doom of not getting my 1 or 2 minute task done before the darn thing starts beeping gives me a sense of immediate stress that I crave 2. The stress causes me to work in hyperactive overdrive, which I love. 3. It’s very useful in keeping me from going into Internet hyperfocus. Set it for 20 minutes and struggle to get your e-mail read. Set it for 5 minutes and I’m less likely to open up 15 Washington Post or NY Times articles. 4. If I want to get off the computer no later than a certain time at night, I can set it for a longer term ‘fun’ time and still get to bed before dawn. Now where the hell did I last see it? Mujibar –Yep–a kitchen timer is one of the few things that works for me. Even today when I did have lots of time to do stuff it was tough after about 2 hours to do much–I had finished all the fun stuff… oops! –It’s the working on boring stuff that is tough–the problem is that working on papers actually takes organized thought–and that tends to get strenuous–the researching it and performing the experiments are fun and lots of variety–organizing it into a paper is BORING… –Hmmm–any way that a kitchen timer makes things less boring?! –RV
<< –Hmmm–any way that a kitchen timer makes things less boring?! –RV
_______ Blog, or dog? Who knows. But if you see my lost pup, please ping me! http://journals.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo \ - – //
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – << –Hmmm–any way that a kitchen timer makes things less boring?! –RV _______ Blog, or dog? Who knows. But if you see my lost pup, please ping me! http://journals.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo \ - – //
Depends how you use it I suppose
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : The other is lock yourself in a room with some food and access to a : bathroom and *nothing else to do* and work like a maniac for eight hours : or so. I have only done this once or twice in my life, for obvious : reasons, but it works amazingly well for true emergencies. : I’m trying to get two years worth of incompleates in philosophy classes done : over this summer so I can graduate. I leave the house maybe twice a week. : I’ve been putting in 12-14 hours a day. I have tons of stuff to reread, : and I’ve always been a slow reader. I’m making headway though. I try and : keep the modem unplugged or start some huge download so I can’t use the net : while I’m working. To your list of bathroom access and food, I add a tin of : the strongest pipe tobacco I can stand (Dunhill Nightcap works nicely), dr God i miss smoking sometimes. Ever tried Gitanes (from France)? The nicotine rush is enough to blow one’s head off. Three puffs and i’m ready to pass out.
I lived in France for a number of years in the 60s. I smoked Gauloises, Gitanes and Gitanes Papier Ma
I have tappered down my Effexor dose (with Doctor supervision, over ~ 2 months, from 75 mg XR, once daily) to the lowest I can get, which is 37.5 mg, which I take in the morning. Suprisinlgy with it’s short half life, I seem to feel no withdrawl effects by the end of the day. However, now my dose is zero, and I think, after 24 hours, I began to feel some withdrawl effects. It’s best described (by others) as a brain zap (a bit like vertigo). It seems not an uncommon effect. I have s light headache, some fatigue, but certianly not incapacitating. But it does freak me out and I am battling not to take a tablet to make it go away. I went on AD when I had some health issues. Freaky things happening to my body don’t help me very much. I have only been Effexor free for 48 h, it does seem to be getting a little worse. Can anyone suggest how long I need to stick it out ? One week ? One month ? It seems to vary person to person, but a guide would be good. My Doc has no advice on this. Appreciated, RDJ
You did a good taper-down, but effexor is notoriously hell to wash-out. 10 days to 2 weeks is the norm. This is a stupid suggestion, but I was helped by using Thera-flu (or the generic versions)…you know, those hot lemon-flavored antihistamine thingies? Jim M.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have tappered down my Effexor dose (with Doctor supervision, over ~ 2 months, from 75 mg XR, once daily) to the lowest I can get, which is 37.5 mg, which I take in the morning. Suprisinlgy with it’s short half life, I seem to feel no withdrawl effects by the end of the day. However, now my dose is zero, and I think, after 24 hours, I began to feel some withdrawl effects. It’s best described (by others) as a brain zap (a bit like vertigo). It seems not an uncommon effect. I have s light headache, some fatigue, but certianly not incapacitating. But it does freak me out and I am battling not to take a tablet to make it go away. I went on AD when I had some health issues. Freaky things happening to my body don’t help me very much. I have only been Effexor free for 48 h, it does seem to be getting a little worse. Can anyone suggest how long I need to stick it out ? One week ? One month ? It seems to vary person to person, but a guide would be good. My Doc has no advice on this. Appreciated, RDJ
Thanks for the reply. Unfortunately, I couldn’t hack the withdrawl and took a tab. Bad thing is, I felt better within an hour. I was hoping waht I was feeling was unrelated to withdrawl, maybe juat a vrius or something. I am now taking 37.5 mg every second day. By the end of the second day, I start to feel the withdrawl. I intend to do this for a week or so to get to know what thw withdrawl feels like, so I am less freaked out by it. In Australia, 37.5 mg seems to be the lowest dose available, according to my Doc. I am not confident of tablet splitting. The lemon things are around. Do you think it’s the anti-histamnine that does the job ? You did a good taper-down, but effexor is notoriously hell to wash-out. 10 days to 2 weeks is the norm. This is a stupid suggestion, but I was helped by using Thera-flu (or the generic versions)…you know, those hot lemon-flavored antihistamine thingies? Jim M.
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6 months or so ago my pdoc tried weaning me off effexor. From 150mg on down…when I hit 37.5 I started withrawal. Dizzy, headache, felt like I was walkin sidewys, brain zaps, nausea. I was put on Wellbuterin. I eventually got totally off. AAAHHHH I called my pdoc crying just having a fit becase I vomited twice. The depression was awaful. I had forgotten how disgusting depression was. Waves of major depression. I did use some benedryl which did help some. So he put me back on Effexor. I am on lithium, lamictal, effexor, ativan and restoril. In my out of mind state I was crying, "with all the drugs I am on how can this happen??!" just crying a way. First he tried clinical terms….forget it, I barely knew where I was. So he put it to me like this, " You have a car, it has a body, wheels and an engine also a steering wheel. You can have all that but, if you do not have the key you cannot start the car you aren’t going anywhere. Effexor is one of your keys. If you do not have it with your other meds you do not receive what your brain needs." Good luck with your effexor. When I was put back on I felt so much better. maridee
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Hi All, I’m seeing my PCP about my concerns with Zoloft. I’v been on it for maybe three months now and the only positive thing I can say is that it was a far cry better for me than Wellbutrin. I couldn’t tell if the Zoloft eased the anxiety at the switch or if just stopping the W did it. Now for the problems–obviously not initial side effects. Weight gain and unable to lose it not matter what I do–I’m not in to fads, just a good diet and as much excersize as I can tolerate. I’ve tried low fat, then low carb–all smart and balanced as I don’t want it to be in vain as soon as I start eating normally again. But I get no results. This is chipping away at my self esteem (and this has never happened to me before and I’m in my 40’s). Gritting/clenching my teeth. At first I thought it was recent dental work (crowns) but it is getting to be so severe that it is causing headaches and I can’t chew anything more firm than cooked rice. Meat? Forget it! I have been back to the dentist twice and though I haven’t completely let him off the hook, I think since I notice the teeth clenching all day long, I have to take some responsibility and look into the Zoloft possibility. I have small involuntary twitching in my arms and legs. It’s unnerving–I hate it. I fear parkinsons or something similar though, again, it started after I was on the Zoloft for a few months. Heightened anxiety all of a sudden. I was down to .75mgs daily and now am up to twice that–conciously I think for the teeth clenching–it seems to help a little–but also my entire disposition, mood, all over feel. I have horrible nightmares every nightl. I can not even bring myself to tell you the content. They seem to last for ever and if you consider the worst possible thing that could happen to a parent, that is what I am dealing with almost every night. I seem to sob all night long, though I know dreams are very short. Consequently, I wake up with a horrible yet relieved feeling–but very exhausted. I used to get canker sores as a child. NOT COLD SORES–they are so often confused with one another. My mom took me to many doctors and there was nothing they could do back then–I’m hoping medicine has made some progress in this area. This has to be some of the worst pain I have ever had to endure and they seem to be nonstop–two or three coming on the heels of another two or three just healing. I am guaranteed a canker sore (mine always result from trauma) if I eat chips, crisp french bread, if I bite the inside of my cheek when eating. They last a good 1 1/2 to 2 weeks and I realize that the Zoloft may not be to blame but I like to be informed when I see the doc. I have seen a few studies posted here recently about the teeth clenching. Truly, I don’t know if I benefit at all from the Z. I am taking it for anxiety not depression. If anyone has any suggestions or has heard of any one else with a similar story. Any links to pertinent info also greatly appreciated. Finally, does anyone know how well Buspar seems to be working for GAD-ites. Since it’s not a member of the SSRI family—I read somewhere that pre-existing conditions can be exaserbated–something to do with the dopamine????? Obviously, I need some intelligent help here LOL.
I have small involuntary twitching in my arms and legs. It’s unnerving–I hate it. I fear parkinsons or something similar though,
Hi.. I see you are in your mid 40s,, just have to ask, are you female?? I have found out that many of my symptoms including my anxiety ( which manifests itself in many ways) are all peri/menopause related… have you checked that out?? it does not matter if you still are regular, your hormones can start fluctuating and cause all kinds of symptoms… just consider it , unless you are male of course! Martha
Hi All,
Hi Little bear I’m seeing my PCP about my concerns with Zoloft. I’v been on it for maybe three months now and the only positive thing I can say is that it was a far cry better for me than Wellbutrin. I couldn’t tell if the Zoloft eased the anxiety at the switch or if just stopping the W did it. Now for the problems–obviously not initial side effects. Weight gain and unable to lose it not matter what I do–I’m not in to fads, just a good diet and as much excersize as I can tolerate. I’ve tried low fat, then low carb–all smart and balanced as I don’t want it to be in vain as soon as I start eating normally again. But I get no results. This is chipping away at my self esteem (and this has never happened to me before and I’m in my 40’s).
Unfortunately alot of the anti-depressants can cause weight gain. Gritting/clenching my teeth. At first I thought it was recent dental work (crowns) but it is getting to be so severe that it is causing headaches and I can’t chew anything more firm than cooked rice. Meat? Forget it! I have been back to the dentist twice and though I haven’t completely let him off the hook, I think since I notice the teeth clenching all day long, I have to take some responsibility and look into the Zoloft possibility.
You can clench your teeth when your anxious, angry, or in pain. It might be a symptom of your anxiety or perhaps the dental work. A few hours after my sister`s accident I started clenching my teeth. It was causing pain in my temples and at times it was so bad I was close to tears. It seemed the more I focused on the clenching the worse it got. Believe it or not, chewing gum seemed to help me. What does your doctor say when you tell him you can`t eat anything harder than rice? I have small involuntary twitching in my arms and legs. It’s unnerving–I hate it. I fear parkinsons or something similar though, again, it started after I was on the Zoloft for a few months.
Twitching is a very common symptom of anxiety. I have had twitches in my arms and legs, the most annoying place to get a twitch is my eyelids. When I went on Paxil they stopped. Maybe your Zoloft dose is just not enough to relieve your anxiety. I think the only way to find out if it is anxiety or the Zoloft causing these symptoms is to get off of it and see what happens. Heightened anxiety all of a sudden. I was down to .75mgs daily and now am up to twice that–conciously I think for the teeth clenching–it seems to help a little–but also my entire disposition, mood, all over feel.
Has increasing the dose helped with the symptoms and the heightened anxiety? I have horrible nightmares every nightl. I can not even bring myself to tell you the content. They seem to last for ever and if you consider the worst possible thing that could happen to a parent, that is what I am dealing with almost every night. I seem to sob all night long, though I know dreams are very short. Consequently, I wake up with a horrible yet relieved feeling–but very exhausted.
When my anxiety is high for a extended period, I get terrible nightmares. I know what you are going through, I use to be afraid to go to sleep for fear of what I would dream. ((((((Little bear))))) I used to get canker sores as a child. NOT COLD SORES–they are so often confused with one another. My mom took me to many doctors and there was nothing they could do back then–I’m hoping medicine has made some progress in this area. This has to be some of the worst pain I have ever had to endure and they seem to be nonstop–two or three coming on the heels of another two or three just healing. I am guaranteed a canker sore (mine always result from trauma) if I eat chips, crisp french bread, if I bite the inside of my cheek when eating. They last a good 1 1/2 to 2 weeks and
Hmmm, did the jaw clenching start after you started getting canker sores? I would bet that your jaw clenching is related to the cankers, indirectly. You said yourself it is some of the worst pain you have endured You might be clenching due to the pain in your mouth. You should tell your doctor about these sores, he may be able to give you a ointment to help with the inflammation. Avoid citrus fruit, tomato`s and nuts. I also heard that many of the toothpaste we use can cause cankers in sensitive individuals. I realize that the Zoloft may not be to blame but I like to be informed when I see the doc. I have seen a few studies posted here recently about the teeth clenching. Truly, I don’t know if I benefit at all from the Z. I am taking it for anxiety not depression. If anyone has any suggestions or has heard of any one else with a similar story. Any links to pertinent info also greatly appreciated. Finally, does anyone know how well Buspar seems to be working for GAD-ites. Since it’s not a member of the SSRI family—I read somewhere that pre-existing conditions can be exaserbated–something to do with the dopamine????? Obviously, I need some intelligent help here LOL.
Buspar is effective for generalized anxiety disorder, which is what I think you said you have. You don`t suffer from panic attacks, right? I don`t think it would hurt to try the Buspar.
really think for your best interest you should see a psych doctor for diagnosis and treatment. Most MD`s just don`t have the knowledge to treat anxiety disorders properly. Take care and good luck tomorrow. *Hugs* Jackie
Ann, Just wanted to compliment you on your great response to the man asking about the side effects of SJW. Great job! Ginny
Just wanted to compliment you on your great response to the man asking about the side effects of SJW. Great job! Ginny
Why, thank you SO much, Ginny — you really made my evening!! :-) Anne ^ ^ {__} The only problem with finally making it to the top of the mountain is that the only way to go from there is DOWN.
ORIGINAL MESSAGE BELOW YOu mentioned that you are not interested in the Prozac "nation" type of drugs. Please don’t forget that St. John’s Wort, even though it’s an herb is still a chemical. In particular, it is a MAO (Monoamine Oxidase Inhibitor). There are many prescription drugs that are chemically related. All MAO inhibitor drugs have problems with interactions with OTC medications as well as many foods that contain high amounts of Tyrosine (i.e., aged meats and cheeses). If your depression is severe enough, I wouln’t discount the effectiveness of certain prescription drugs. Prozac got a bad rap because of its misuse by doctors that wanted to prescribe for things such as weight loss, etc. Only a trained Psychiatrist would know when to prescribe because Prozac can bring on manic episodes if the person is predisposed to bi-polar depression. Many people think (the uninformed ones) that herbs are completely safe because they are natural. They are still powerful chemicals and you have to be completely informed about their appropriate use. Personally, I have tried St. John’s Wort with no effect. I am currently on Effexor and have seen dramatic improvement in the span of only 2 weeks. Hope this information helps. Please be aware, that the above dialogue is my opinion. Jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I have a question regarding possible side-effects from St John’s Wort and have not been able to find an answer anywhere else. I’ve looked in over a dozen book that mention SJW/Hypercium and checked with two pharmacists, yet found no mention or possible explanation for my situation. Having wrestled with depression for some time (the diagnosis from a Doc was Dystimia), it was suggested by a friend who suffers from bouts of depression, and-off the record-by a psychiatrist, that I try SJW and see if it helped. The initial results were *very* promising: I felt balanced, energized and normal for the first time in I don’t know how long. Aside from some slight indigestion and grumbling bowels (which were not a problem when I took the SJW with a good breakfast), there were no immediate difficulties. However, about one month into taking SJW I began to have trouble sitting for long periods due to what felt like swollen testicles. They became very sensitive and I began to experience that most unpleasant of male maladies-cracking one’s nuts-on a daily basis. At first I thought I had another hernia (having had one 10 years ago), for the pressure and irritation on and around my lower abdomen was similar. Still, the pressure was different enough-and had started after I started taking SJW-that I suspected otherwise. Perhaps there was an unfortunate interaction between the SJW and some of the other medications I have to take (in this case, for allergies and for psoriasis). I stopped taking everything, and within 10 days the pressure on my testicles was gone. I’d like to start taking the SJW again, but want first to see if there is any knowledge or documentaion of side effects of this nature. The manufacturer’s blanket warning on the SJW bottle (more of a "cover your ass" for the parent company than a conveyor of information) mentions that one should consider avoiding the product if you’ve had prostrate enlargement in the past-yet I have found no where any mention of either prostrate enlargement or testicular swelling as a side-effect of hypercium. One book on herbal medicines did mention that while taking SJW one should abstain from coffee, tea, alcohol ("Great!…now what am I going to drink?!?) and a huge list of foods…but gave no explanation as to why someone should alter their diet such. It’s very important to me to clear up this question (hence my willingness to let it "all hang out" for the on-line world to see), for the positive effects of St Joh’s were extremely helpful in getting my life back on track. (And for the record, while I ‘ve been prescribed Prozac, I am in no way interested in joining the ProzacNation and dealing with my situation chemically. This is an absolute last-resort measure.) Thanks to anyone who has an answer to this, J.P.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a question regarding possible side-effects from St John’s Wort and have not been able to find an answer anywhere else. I’ve looked in over a dozen book that mention SJW/Hypercium and checked with two pharmacists, yet found no mention or possible explanation for my situation. Having wrestled with depression for some time (the diagnosis from a Doc was Dystimia), it was suggested by a friend who suffers from bouts of depression, and-off the record-by a psychiatrist, that I try SJW and see if it helped. The initial results were *very* promising: I felt balanced, energized and normal for the first time in I don’t know how long. Aside from some slight indigestion and grumbling bowels (which were not a problem when I took the SJW with a good breakfast), there were no immediate difficulties. However, about one month into taking SJW I began to have trouble sitting for long periods due to what felt like swollen testicles. They became very sensitive and I began to experience that most unpleasant of male maladies-cracking one’s nuts-on a daily basis. At first I thought I had another hernia (having had one 10 years ago), for the pressure and irritation on and around my lower abdomen was similar. Still, the pressure was different enough-and had started after I started taking SJW-that I suspected otherwise. Perhaps there was an unfortunate interaction between the SJW and some of the other medications I have to take (in this case, for allergies and for psoriasis).
Testicular swelling is a known possible side-effect of some of the tricyclic antidepressant drugs such as imipramine. I suspect that St. John’s Wort’s mode of action is similar to the tricyclic class of antidepressants and shares this possible side-effect with them. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I stopped taking everything, and within 10 days the pressure on my testicles was gone. I’d like to start taking the SJW again, but want first to see if there is any knowledge or documentaion of side effects of this nature. The manufacturer’s blanket warning on the SJW bottle (more of a "cover your ass" for the parent company than a conveyor of information) mentions that one should consider avoiding the product if you’ve had prostrate enlargement in the past-yet I have found no where any mention of either prostrate enlargement or testicular swelling as a side-effect of hypercium. One book on herbal medicines did mention that while taking SJW one should abstain from coffee, tea, alcohol ("Great!…now what am I going to drink?!?) and a huge list of foods…but gave no explanation as to why someone should alter their diet such. It’s very important to me to clear up this question (hence my willingness to let it "all hang out" for the on-line world to see), for the positive effects of St Joh’s were extremely helpful in getting my life back on track. (And for the record, while I ‘ve been prescribed Prozac, I am in no way interested in joining the ProzacNation and dealing with my situation chemically. This is an absolute last-resort measure.)
I don’t understand your reluctance to try Prozac since St. John’s Wort is also a chemical treatment of depression. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Thanks to anyone who has an answer to this, J.P.
However, about one month into taking SJW I began to have trouble sitting for long periods due to what felt like swollen testicles. They became very sensitive and I began to experience that most unpleasant of male maladies-cracking one’s nuts-on a daily basis. At first I thought I had another hernia (having had one 10 years ago), for the pressure and irritation on and around my lower abdomen was similar. Still, the pressure was different enough-and had started after I started taking SJW-that I suspected otherwise.
J.P. – I’m so glad to hear that you have had such good results overall with St. John’s Wort. Most of what has been said about your problem in this thread so far has been fairly good advice (particularly that concerning the need for being careful of the MAOI-like effects of SJW, and possible VERY adverse food/drug interactions because of that). I haven’t heard of the discomfort that you are describing PRECISELY, but I have heard of something a little bit similar. A patient contacted me to ask about a rather strange sort of experience that he was having, wherein he would develop considerable abdominal distention and discomfort, while finding himself to also be developing a spontaneous penile erection at the same time. After extensive questioning, it was finally determined that this person would develop these strange, distressing symptoms after ingesting an assortment of herbs that he was taking in order to "enhance" his immune system. As you will see from other posts on this board, just because a preparation is sold as an "herbal" preparation over the counter, without a prescription; that in NO WAY means that it is entirely innocuous!! In this other person’s case, I finally figured out that what he was having was an odd sort of allergic reaction to the herbs that he was taking, and this was how it was manifesting for him. When I pointed this out to him, he then related to me an experience that he had had of taking a preparation containing the herb yohimbine; and then having this strange type of side effect SO severely that he (in his own words) nearly passed out and ejaculated at the same time while riding on the subway. It sounds to me, J.P., as if what you are describing is some sort of mild allergice reaction to the SJW. One VERY common response to an allergic reaction to something is to retain fluid. My guess would be that you might very well just be experiencing/noticing the fluid retention of an allergic reaction to the SJW primarily in the scrotal and testicular area. Part of the biochemical reaction of an allergic reaction is for the body to release excess amounts of a body chemical known as "histamine". One of the effects of histamine is to mediate sexual response. In the case of this other individual, he was experiencing that effect somewhat in the extreme. Perhaps you are experiencing a combination of that, along with some fluid retention — and the resultant effect is the sensations that you have described. Does what you experience resemble that old male malady commonly referred to colloquially as "blue balls"? If so, then I would say that what you are experiencing IS indeed an excess histamine response. If that is the case, you could try an over-the-counter antihistamine (such as ChlorTrimeton or Benadryl) to see if that might help to relieve this problem. You might also try adding something such as Zantac (which is a partial histamine H-2 blocker), too. Unfortunately, I don’t know if the addition of something such as these histamine blockers will negate the beneficial effects of the SJW. Probably the only way to tell is to just simply give it a try. (They shouldn’t interact adversely with the SJW — I can’t tell you about the other medications that you may be taking, though.) Although this probably isn’t of any concern to you at this time of year, one other not-insignificant side effect of SJW is photosensitivity. What this means is that you need to be VERY careful of exposure to ultra-violet light. If you get too much while taking the SJW, you could very easily develop a very bad sunburn and/or bad rash. Just for the record, to correct a few other minor things that have been said in this thread — it is TYRAMINE in various foods that is of concern when taking an MAOI — not tyrosine. (Tyrosine is the precursor to tyramine, which then breaks down to norepinephrine in the body. Not all tyrosine breaks down to tyramine, though; and not all foods high in tyramine are also high in tyrosine.) MAOI drugs can interact adversely with foods that are high in tyramine (as well as with numerous other medications), and cause a VERY serious — possibly even fatal — hypertensive crisis, J.P. That is the reason why that book advised against the ingestion of certain foods and beverages when taking SJW. Also, you probably were told that you suffer from "dysthymia" — not "distimia". And don’t be TOO quick to knock Prozac — it has saved many people’s lives, and greatly improved many other people’s lives. No — it’s not a miracle nor a panacea — but nor is it the much-maligned boogey-man that it’s been made out to be, either. Much like many things in this world, it is an inanimate object — and is what we make of it — good OR bad. Anyway, I hope that this might be of some help to you. Good luck! Anne ^ ^ {__} Have you ever felt as if you’ve finally seen the light at the end of the tunnel — only to discover that it’s really a locomotive aimed straight at you?
You mentioned the use of Prozac as a way to treat depression, and the "Prozac nation." I am in no way interested in joining the ProzacNation and dealing with my situation chemically. During my course of treatment for depression I was prescribed several medications, including Prozac, Effexor, Zoloft, and Imiprimine. Imiprimine was one that I did not tolerate well. My Psych. then prescribed Zoloft, To which I eventually developed a tolerance; then Effexor, same problem; then Prozac, which I took for a little over 2yrs. I am now taking SJW to help combat some situational "blues" and a mild case of Seasonal Affected Disorder (Wintertime Blues). During this time I am ACTIVELY PARTICIPATING IN PSYCHOTHERAPY. My piont is that no one can Heal depression with just chemicals. If you don’t deal with the life situations that are exacerbating your depression, you may end up taking chemicals for the rest of your life. I am aware that there are some people out there who are diagnosed with depression as a chemical imbalance. This may ne so, but far more use chemicals to keep from dealing with the shit floating around in their head. In these situations the meds are just a cop-out. If you are interested in more about SJW try reading: THE NATURAL PROZAC PROGRAM by Johnathan Zeus M.D. For more info on depressioI recommend tracking down a copy of HEALING DEPRESSION, but I don’t have the author’s name handy. I’ll get off ny soapbox now. Rowan Rowan "To Do Is To Be." -Plato "To Be Is To Do." -Socrates "Do Be Do Be Do" -Sinatra
YOu mentioned that you are not interested in the Prozac "nation" type of drugs. Please don’t forget that St. John’s Wort, even though it’s an herb is still a chemical. In particular, it is a MAO (Monoamine Oxidase Inhibitor). There are many prescription drugs that are chemically related. All MAO inhibitor drugs have problems with interactions with OTC medications as well as many foods that contain high amounts of Tyrosine (i.e., aged meats and cheeses). If your depression is severe enough, I wouln’t discount the effectiveness of certain prescription drugs. Prozac got a bad rap because of its misuse by doctors that wanted to prescribe for things such as weight loss, etc. Only a trained Psychiatrist would know when to prescribe because Prozac can bring on manic episodes if the person is predisposed to bi-polar depression.
I’ve never heard of the prostate warning either (see original message below), but SJW’s mild MAOI property together with the allergy meds (if they contain ephedrine or pseudoephedrine [other no-no's?]) could theoretically cause some overactivation of the sympathetic nervous system (mostly high blood pressure), but again, I’ve never heard of testicle problems being part of the syndrome (I have heard of one man who experienced some kind of partial paralysis or loss of sensation in his penis on SJW). You (J. P.) might want to ask your pharmacist if a MAOI _drug_ together with any of the meds you’re taking could cause your symptoms. Regardless of the answer, if you’d like to stick with the SJW, a trial of it sans any meds that are contraindicated for people using MAOIs (your pharmacist, the web, or the library can give you the details) would be an option. If you could let us/me know how it works out (I write about health — including SJW — professionally), I would appreciate it. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Many people think (the uninformed ones) that herbs are completely safe because they are natural. They are still powerful chemicals and you have to be completely informed about their appropriate use. Personally, I have tried St. John’s Wort with no effect. I am currently on Effexor and have seen dramatic improvement in the span of only 2 weeks. Hope this information helps. Please be aware, that the above dialogue is my opinion. Jeff I have a question regarding possible side-effects from St John’s Wort and have not been able to find an answer anywhere else. I’ve looked in over a dozen book that mention SJW/Hypercium and checked with two pharmacists, yet found no mention or possible explanation for my situation. Having wrestled with depression for some time (the diagnosis from a Doc was Dystimia), it was suggested by a friend who suffers from bouts of depression, and-off the record-by a psychiatrist, that I try SJW and see if it helped. The initial results were *very* promising: I felt balanced, energized and normal for the first time in I don’t know how long. Aside from some slight indigestion and grumbling bowels (which were not a problem when I took the SJW with a good breakfast), there were no immediate difficulties. However, about one month into taking SJW I began to have trouble sitting for long periods due to what felt like swollen testicles. They became very sensitive and I began to experience that most unpleasant of male maladies-cracking one’s nuts-on a daily basis. At first I thought I had another hernia (having had one 10 years ago), for the pressure and irritation on and around my lower abdomen was similar. Still, the pressure was different enough-and had started after I started taking SJW-that I suspected otherwise. Perhaps there was an unfortunate interaction between the SJW and some of the other medications I have to take (in this case, for allergies and for psoriasis). I stopped taking everything, and within 10 days the pressure on my testicles was gone. I’d like to start taking the SJW again, but want first to see if there is any knowledge or documentaion of side effects of this nature. The manufacturer’s blanket warning on the SJW bottle (more of a "cover your ass" for the parent company than a conveyor of information) mentions that one should consider avoiding the product if you’ve had prostrate enlargement in the past-yet I have found no where any mention of either prostrate enlargement or testicular swelling as a side-effect of hypercium. One book on herbal medicines did mention that while taking SJW one should abstain from coffee, tea, alcohol ("Great!…now what am I going to drink?!?) and a huge list of foods…but gave no explanation as to why someone should alter their diet such. It’s very important to me to clear up this question (hence my willingness to let it "all hang out" for the on-line world to see), for the positive effects of St Joh’s were extremely helpful in getting my life back on track. (And for the record, while I ‘ve been prescribed Prozac, I am in no way interested in joining the ProzacNation and dealing with my situation chemically. This is an absolute last-resort measure.) Thanks to anyone who has an answer to this, J.P.
Syd **** Syd Baumel author of Dealing With Depression Naturally (Keats Publishing Inc., 1995)
Dunno.. Sounds a bit ’strange’ to me.. But I have been wondering about the effects of "getting off" the stuff… Possibly (also?) just a coincidence, but I felt a ‘major case’ of the blues after going without the stuff for a few days awhile ago. Much worse than anything I can remember experiencing before starting to take the stuff!
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I have a question regarding possible side-effects from St John’s Wort and have not been able to find an answer anywhere else. I’ve looked in over a dozen book that mention SJW/Hypercium and checked with two pharmacists, yet found no mention or possible explanation for my situation. Having wrestled with depression for some time (the diagnosis from a Doc was Dystimia), it was suggested by a friend who suffers from bouts of depression, and-off the record-by a psychiatrist, that I try SJW and see if it helped. The initial results were *very* promising: I felt balanced, energized and normal for the first time in I don’t know how long. Aside from some slight indigestion and grumbling bowels (which were not a problem when I took the SJW with a good breakfast), there were no immediate difficulties. However, about one month into taking SJW I began to have trouble sitting for long periods due to what felt like swollen testicles. They became very sensitive and I began to experience that most unpleasant of male maladies-cracking one’s nuts-on a daily basis. At first I thought I had another hernia (having had one 10 years ago), for the pressure and irritation on and around my lower abdomen was similar. Still, the pressure was different enough-and had started after I started taking SJW-that I suspected otherwise. Perhaps there was an unfortunate interaction between the SJW and some of the other medications I have to take (in this case, for allergies and for psoriasis). I stopped taking everything, and within 10 days the pressure on my testicles was gone. I’d like to start taking the SJW again, but want first to see if there is any knowledge or documentaion of side effects of this nature. The manufacturer’s blanket warning on the SJW bottle (more of a "cover your ass" for the parent company than a conveyor of information) mentions that one should consider avoiding the product if you’ve had prostrate enlargement in the past-yet I have found no where any mention of either prostrate enlargement or testicular swelling as a side-effect of hypercium. One book on herbal medicines did mention that while taking SJW one should abstain from coffee, tea, alcohol ("Great!…now what am I going to drink?!?) and a huge list of foods…but gave no explanation as to why someone should alter their diet such. It’s very important to me to clear up this question (hence my willingness to let it "all hang out" for the on-line world to see), for the positive effects of St Joh’s were extremely helpful in getting my life back on track. (And for the record, while I ‘ve been prescribed Prozac, I am in no way interested in joining the ProzacNation and dealing with my situation chemically. This is an absolute last-resort measure.) Thanks to anyone who has an answer to this, J.P.
I have a question regarding possible side-effects from St John’s Wort and have not been able to find an answer anywhere else. I’ve looked in over a dozen book that mention SJW/Hypercium and checked with two pharmacists, yet found no mention or possible explanation for my situation. Having wrestled with depression for some time (the diagnosis from a Doc was Dystimia), it was suggested by a friend who suffers from bouts of depression, and-off the record-by a psychiatrist, that I try SJW and see if it helped. The initial results were *very* promising: I felt balanced, energized and normal for the first time in I don’t know how long. Aside from some slight indigestion and grumbling bowels (which were not a problem when I took the SJW with a good breakfast), there were no immediate difficulties. However, about one month into taking SJW I began to have trouble sitting for long periods due to what felt like swollen testicles. They became very sensitive and I began to experience that most unpleasant of male maladies-cracking one’s nuts-on a daily basis. At first I thought I had another hernia (having had one 10 years ago), for the pressure and irritation on and around my lower abdomen was similar. Still, the pressure was different enough-and had started after I started taking SJW-that I suspected otherwise. Perhaps there was an unfortunate interaction between the SJW and some of the other medications I have to take (in this case, for allergies and for psoriasis). I stopped taking everything, and within 10 days the pressure on my testicles was gone. I’d like to start taking the SJW again, but want first to see if there is any knowledge or documentaion of side effects of this nature. The manufacturer’s blanket warning on the SJW bottle (more of a "cover your ass" for the parent company than a conveyor of information) mentions that one should consider avoiding the product if you’ve had prostrate enlargement in the past-yet I have found no where any mention of either prostrate enlargement or testicular swelling as a side-effect of hypercium. One book on herbal medicines did mention that while taking SJW one should abstain from coffee, tea, alcohol ("Great!…now what am I going to drink?!?) and a huge list of foods…but gave no explanation as to why someone should alter their diet such. It’s very important to me to clear up this question (hence my willingness to let it "all hang out" for the on-line world to see), for the positive effects of St Joh’s were extremely helpful in getting my life back on track. (And for the record, while I ‘ve been prescribed Prozac, I am in no way interested in joining the ProzacNation and dealing with my situation chemically. This is an absolute last-resort measure.) Thanks to anyone who has an answer to this, J.P.
Good for you to find out about these drugs…from 1 to 10 my tinnitus is about a (7) right now… it was a(2) before a hip operation in Aug. this yr….Pain medication was the cause of the increase… I have hope that the T will drop down to (2) again since stopping the pain medication…
On Tuesday my psychiatrist wanted me to start Paxil 10mg (I really think of him as a doctor who writes prescriptions for my Ambien and Xanax, rather than a psychiatrist. I had six visits precertified through my US Health Care Insurance). On Saturday afternoon I had a severe agitated depression that lasted about three hours, even though my t wasn’t bothering me then. This is the time of year that allot of people get depressed anyway. Especially the ones without family. I’ve been having a really good week so far, the best since this t hit me in July. So I decided not to start the paxil yet. Even though I had loud t three days in a row, it didn’t seem to bother me as much. I’ve also been eating well for the last week. I’m also anticipating starting TRT soon. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
Interesting. You dont say how many milligrams you were on. I was put on 20 mg a day. After two months i decided to cut my dosage in half due to side effects. I am on 10 mg a day. I havent noticed any increase in ringing. The drop down to 10 mg very quickly eliminated the side effects including alternating hot and cold flashes and extreme fatigue. My mood was not affected. My psychiatrist became very upset when i told him i had done this and told me i had made a serious mistake and was in for a big accident. He then threw me out of his office because i didnt want to return to the full dose. I am going to slowly ease off the Paxil totally. If i feel the need to go backon it i will certainly find myself another doctor. I have been on so many different medications the past three months trying to get back to "normal" which hasnt really happened, although life is more livable..thats a start. Anti depressants can help. Paxil seemed to level everything out. But it does affect your body and i didnt care for that discomfort on top of my tinnitus. It doesnt totally get you out of the funk. Even on my full dose i got bouts of depression, I still do. Lots of emotions are tied up in this and if you already are experiencing stress or disapointments in life, tinnitus just adds to it, making you feel broken, victimized and helpless. Cynthia I
FYI Paxil withdrawal is NOT pleasant. Dizziness, vomiting, loss of balance and *auditory hallucinations.* These have been documented in others than I. My psychiatrist found a paper on SSRI withdrawal, how lack of knowledge in this area is starting to cause problems. The drug companies don’t want to talk about this. This report has been my experience, only. I hope it helps others. BUT I will always belong to the ATA and a T. suffer’s advocate. Best to all. ciao, randall
Interesting. You dont say how many milligrams you were on. I was put on 20 mg a day. After two months i decided to cut my dosage in half due to side effects. I am on 10 mg a day. I havent noticed any increase in ringing. The drop down to 10 mg very quickly eliminated the side effects including alternating hot and cold flashes and extreme fatigue. My mood was not affected. My psychiatrist became very upset when i told him i had done this and told me i had made a serious mistake and was in for a big accident. He then threw me out of his office because i didnt want to return to the full dose. I am going to slowly ease off the Paxil totally. If i feel the need to go backon it i will certainly find myself another doctor. I have been on so many different medications the past three months trying to get back to "normal" which hasnt really happened, although life is more livable..thats a start. Anti depressants can help. Paxil seemed to level everything out. But it does affect your body and i didnt care for that discomfort on top of my tinnitus. It doesnt totally get you out of the funk. Even on my full dose i got bouts of depression, I still do. Lots of emotions are tied up in this and if you already are experiencing stress or disapointments in life, tinnitus just adds to it, making you feel broken, victimized and helpless. Cynthia I
In article <01bcf5e6$d2cd89e0$0521accf@larrygol
, "Larry Goldman"
<larrg…@erols.com
writes: On Tuesday my psychiatrist wanted me to start Paxil 10mg (I really think of him as a doctor who writes prescriptions for my Ambien and Xanax, rather than a psychiatrist. I had six visits precertified through my US Health Care Insurance).
Hi, Larry! We have all been pulling for you here, knowing how tough the past few weeks have been for you and hoping you will find something to help. Glad this week has been better. It’s about time! I thought I would clarify that a psychiatrist is a medically trainned doctor who generally has specialized training in medication. A psychiatrist usually sees a patient and interviews him on a periodic basis in order to assess and monitor his meds. If a person needs to be hospitalized, a psychiatrist generally is responsible, although more and more other mental health professions are becoming involved in hospitalization these days. A psychotherapist is a person with specialized training in psychotherapy. This training varies, but may easily take 8-12 years or more of graduate school. A psychiatrist may go on for more training in therapy, and some do, but by the time they have finished all the education that it took to get this far, many don’t sign up for an additional 8-12 years. Many either are not interested or feel that it is time to get on with their lives. Therefore, it may take some exploring to find out what training a particular psychiatrist has, or for any other therapist, for that matter. Good luck with the TRT. We are all crossing our fingers for you. Ginny
This has been my experience. I developed *unbearable* tinnitus around Labor Day. I have always noticed a slight sound [note] every now and again, but nothing *devastating*. This was. 1. Psychiatrist, Primary care, ENT: all tests MRI; another ENT; Tinnitus specialist who recommened a plan of treatment for T., long and involved. 2. I looked up several drugs in PDR. Found for Paxil [a Prozac relative] [all SSRIs, Zoloft, Prozac, Paxil, Effexor, Desyrel(R), ] and Desyrel a small incidence of tinnitus. 3. 5 doctors and $2000.00 later, I decided to try and see if I was one of the small few in whom SSRIs caused tinnitus. 3. I stopped PAXIL and DESYREL. 4. 3 weeks later [today] tinnitus is 90% gone. I comes and goes and changes daily, but on the whole, for the first time in 2 1/2 months I can honestly say I believe these drugs to be the cause of *my* tinnitus. 5. I put the connection together, because of Effexor withdrawal, caused a feeling of loss of balance control [INNER EAR]. 6. I knew if I missed 2 days of Paxil I became VERY dizzy and felt "swimmy." [again, INNER EAR] 7. I figured if the drugs [SSRIs] caused dizziness upon withdrawal, they were doing something in my inner ear, so what not the T. 8. Most of the tinnitus is gone. I still feel swimmy. Waves of nausea will hit, along with a symphony of sounds in my ears. So, I certainly believe IF you developed T. after starting an anti-depressant [namely SSRIs] or your T. has gotten worse, I would talk to your doctor about these drugs. FYI Paxil withdrawal is NOT pleasant. Dizziness, vomiting, loss of balance and *auditory hallucinations.* These have been documented in others than I. My psychiatrist found a paper on SSRI withdrawal, how lack of knowledge in this area is starting to cause problems. The drug companies don’t want to talk about this. This report has been my experience, only. I hope it helps others. BUT I will always belong to the ATA and a T. suffer’s advocate. Best to all. ciao, randall