Question:

Aldi’s.   SaltyJ

Response:

Our local Safeway carries nearly all of its own brand ("Safeway Select") sodas as both regular and diet. The only one they don’t seem to copy is Fresca – which of course is my favourite. Generally speaking the generic brands are as good as brand names. In fact one Canadian company (Cott) has built a large market share by producing generic sodas that taste better than the "real thing". In some places these are sold under the "President’s Choice" lable. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I have found myself clinging to diet sodas on my diet.  its the way I treat myself and I can drink tons of the stuff.  what I have found though is its expensive like 1.49 per 2 liter at the local store for diet sodas so I want to buy some in bulk but don’t know where to look. I don’t care about brand names and noticed many companies have generic alternatives to the popular sodas like cola, root beer, creme soda, dr. pepper, mt. dew, etc.  BUT what I haven’t seen is much diet alternatives to these except cola and lemon lime. So I was just wondering for those that care about cost and drink diet soda where do you shop to get the best deals for 2 liter bottles of the stuff?  I know safeway, sunny select, walmart and a few other big stores carry generic brands but am I wrong in thinking that besides the name brand diet sodas, generic vendors don’t cater to our market so Im really stuck buying the name brand stuff?

Stephen Rees Richmond BC Canada to reply by email take off yer boots 204.8/164/164 http://communities.msn.ca/TheReesWeightLosssite or, http://members.home.net/srees8094/weightloss/ReesWeightLoss.html http://members.home.net/srees8094/zeropointsoup/index.html

Response:

I have found myself clinging to diet sodas on my diet.  its the way I treat myself and I can drink tons of the stuff.  what I have found though is its expensive like 1.49 per 2 liter at the local store for diet sodas so I want to buy some in bulk but don’t know where to look. I don’t care about brand names and noticed many companies have generic alternatives to the popular sodas like cola, root beer, creme soda, dr. pepper, mt. dew, etc.  BUT what I haven’t seen is much diet alternatives to these except cola and lemon lime. So I was just wondering for those that care about cost and drink diet soda where do you shop to get the best deals for 2 liter bottles of the stuff?  I know safeway, sunny select, walmart and a few other big stores carry generic brands but am I wrong in thinking that besides the name brand diet sodas, generic vendors don’t cater to our market so Im really stuck buying the name brand stuff?

Response:

I’ve seen almost every variety of cheap generic pop in most of the stores where I shop… in diet, even in caffeine free diet at times.  Ask at the store if you don’t see it on the shelf. I personally spend the extra $$ and buy only Diet Coke… all generic that I have found are basically Pepsi products and I don’t really like the taste of Diet Pepsi (only in a pinch).  But that’s me… Good luck! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have found myself clinging to diet sodas on my diet.  its the way I treat myself and I can drink tons of the stuff.  what I have found though is its expensive like 1.49 per 2 liter at the local store for diet sodas so I want to buy some in bulk but don’t know where to look. I don’t care about brand names and noticed many companies have generic alternatives to the popular sodas like cola, root beer, creme soda, dr. pepper, mt. dew, etc.  BUT what I haven’t seen is much diet alternatives to these except cola and lemon lime. So I was just wondering for those that care about cost and drink diet soda where do you shop to get the best deals for 2 liter bottles of the stuff?  I know safeway, sunny select, walmart and a few other big stores carry generic brands but am I wrong in thinking that besides the name brand diet sodas, generic vendors don’t cater to our market so Im really stuck buying the name brand stuff?

– *:-.,_,.-:*’“’*:-.,_,.-:*’“’*:-.,_,.-:*’“’ Nancy Elrick http://members.home.net/nelrick/ 189.6/136.6/129.6 *:-.,_,.-:*’“’*:-.,_,.-:*’“’*:-.,_,.-:*’“’

Response:

Question:

Sorry dude, I tend to agree on the side effects of Xanax..I actually was on Xanax for almost 3 yrs, AND (forgive me) was working as a P.medic at the same time…I was a walking zombie and my partners had to cover my azz more than once cuz I was falling asleep everywhere..I couldnt think straight…I couldnt DRIVE at all, and put my car in the ditch at least once…I was trying to attend college but my grades dropped like a bomb..I felt like I was in another world (I was taking this for panic attacks)…then finally, one day, I was getting into the ambulance and fell out the back door while closing it…that was enuff..withdrawal was HEAVENLY..*I love to puke, since IM also bulimic so this was right up my alley…sigghh…the dry heaves was an added bonus since I also like to punish myself..the headaches werent so cool thooo…any other questions about this lovely wonder drug?  Paxil: I just took this one 2 yrs ago for depression..was on it for about 9 mos….It made me nauseous and my stomach hurt all the time..I had headaches and felt like I had a cold all the time (stuffy head feeling)..withdrawal was not as bad as with some others, but there still was the nauseau/vomiting thing etc..so it felt just like I was still taking it till it was out of my system…blah…~Ima – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – People with biplar disorder should not take Paxil or any other anti depressant long term. I am sick and tired about all these posts trying to scare people away from trying xanax.  As someone who has suffered from bipolar disorder(type 2) for 15 years, tried all the antidepressants, now on a cocktail of meds, including xanax and paxil, my experience is that PAXIL has many more adverse effects versus the marginal benefit of some anxiety relief.  I took Paxil for 5 months and was not taking any xanax, and I got some anticapation anxiety relief at the cost of NO LIBIDO, sleeping 12 hours a day, having no motivation, just didn’t give a shit, already gained 10 pounds in 5 months with the carbo craving…..And people want to talk about xanax dependency and problems with withdrawl.  I am not trying to minimize people’s experience or their pain, but with anxiety or other mental health issues, the word is YOUR MILEAGE MAY VARY(YMMY).  I am a college graduate in electrical engineering from a top 5 engineering college, and now have not worked for over two years mostly because of anxiety and some depression yearly.  After working for 11 years struggling with depression and anxiety, I now have a hard time stepping outside my home.  I have considered suicide 1000’s of times over the last 15 years, actually researched and made the plans and was about to end it, and then I started on the Paxil…….Yeah, my suicidal obsessions went away, but now I was content to veg out all day watching TY or on the Net, my desire to GET A JOB disappeared.  Go research web sites and you will see how many people have problems with SSRI’s, yeah they are alive and taking that $3 pill two times a day or many $3 pills for me, but now I am NUMB and just there.  Prior to Paxil I use to be a emotional person, felt the pain of others and would cry when touched by something, but now I am a Paxil-zombie, yeah some anxiety relief but a LOT OF ME is also gone.  So all those xanax phobics, please allow people to fail with their options without scaring them.  What are people’s choices when it comes to anxiety or panic, yes paxil, yes benzo’s, yes MAIO’s, yes CBT(Cognitive Behavior Therapy).  My experience is PAXIL SUCKS and THE WITHDRAWAL IS HORRIBLE BASED ON MUCH FEEDBACK I HAVE READ ON THE NET, MAIO’S like parnate have some studies that back them up but the food restrictions are VERY DIFFICULT(no cheese, wine, beer, chocolate, many OTC meds, etc.), CBT might work for some but the feedback I have heard is that CBT plus meds work the best and I HAVE DONE THE THERAPY ROUTE and it was a waste of money. As one doctor told me, people who suffer from PANIC and think they are dieing have never been told that "your not going to die, it is all in your head"…Well that was my last session with him.  Just to repeat, this is MY EXPERIENCE and YOUR MILEAGE MAY VARY.  Now I could continue to HIBERNATE IN MY HOUSE, NOT WORK, RUN OUT OF MONEY AND THEN BE HOMELESS…..Or I can be proactive and continue to experiment and try to find some solution that will allow me to work and have a life.  I have taken xanax in the past, just started it one month ago, still taking a low dose of paxil, and I am MUCH MUCH BETTER at dealing with day to day life, interacting with people, giving my shit done, etc. Yeah, maybe I will be taking xanax for the rest of my life but the only side effect I have had is some sleepiness.  And to those who talk about TOLERANCE BUILDUP, that is a CROCK, yes you might have to increase your xanax from .25mg 3 times a day to .50mg 3 times a day, there are people who have taken xanax for 5 to 15 years and most leveled out after 1 year at a dose and have no desire to increase. People need to do some research and FIND OUT THE REAL TRUTH, not what BIG PHARMA and BIG BUSINESS OWNED MEDIA OUTLETS want us to believe. Not to be cynical, but $3 no generic available paxil is much better for DRUG COMPANIES, then CHEAP GENERIC XANAX which might be more effective with less side-effects.  Why are benzo’s so hard to get, cause drug lobbiest have access to CONGRESS and made sure that THE NO-PROFIT SOLUTIONS(IE LIKE BENZO’S) are not readily available. Linda Channell, (740) 548-6874, 88 Ravine Rd, Powell, OH 43065 Let me make THE NEWCOMERS TO MENTAL ILLNESS aware that HYPE ABOUT THE LATEST ANTIDEPRESSANT HAS EVERYTHING TO DO WITH THE BILLIONS OF DOLLARS THAT WILL BE MADE ON THE DRUG, and the only time you will hear about THE NEGATIVES about that drug will be when it comes off-patent. Now that we have generic prozac, we will hear more about side effects like NO LIBIDO, WEIGHT GAIN, SUICIDE, AND OTHER  EFEECTS.  Of course, as long as Paxil and Zoloft have no generics, MEDIA HYPE will be still muted, but give it time.  Just as all the SSRI’s go generic, we will hear about ALL THE NEGATIVES and out will come the new batch of 8 TO 12 WEEK STUDIED ANTIDEPRESSANTS to start the new profit cycle.  People with mental illness are just pawns, half ass useless meds are approved based on 8 week studies, NO REASON FOR A LONG TERM STUDY, we really don’t want to KNOW THE TRUTH, and as soon as the generics start rolling out, OUT COMES THE DIRTY LAUNDRY, not to HELP US, NO, ONLY SO THAT WE GO ON THE LATEST $5 PILL THAT HAS A 80% SUCCESS RATE AND EVEN LESS SIDE EFFECTS.  Hell as long as everyone is making money, who cares about THE CRAZIES that take the product, we just need them alive and taking their meds.  Now I forget, was I taking about the cigarette industry or drug companies, HELL WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE.  This of course is just the opinion of a mentally ill patient with 15 years of experience popping pills, all of which have a 70% effective rate, but I guess I am the exception, "ALIVE" AND NOT SUICIDAL, AND NOT HAPPY ABOUT IT. White Knight

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sorry dude, I tend to agree on the side effects of Xanax..I actually was on Xanax for almost 3 yrs, AND (forgive me) was working as a P.medic at the same time…I was a walking zombie and my partners had to cover my azz more than once cuz I was falling asleep everywhere..I couldnt think straight…I couldnt DRIVE at all, and put my car in the ditch at least once…I was trying to attend college but my grades dropped like a bomb..I felt like I was in another world (I was taking this for panic attacks)…then finally, one day, I was getting into the ambulance and fell out the back door while closing it…that was enuff..withdrawal was HEAVENLY..*I love to puke, since IM also bulimic so this was right up my alley…sigghh…the dry heaves was an added bonus since I also like to punish myself..the headaches werent so cool thooo…any other questions about this lovely wonder drug?  Paxil: I just took this one 2 yrs ago for depression..was on it for about 9 mos….It made me nauseous and my stomach hurt all the time..I had headaches and felt like I had a cold all the time (stuffy head feeling)..withdrawal was not as bad as with some others, but there still was the nauseau/vomiting thing etc..so it felt just like I was still taking it till it was out of my system…blah…~Ima

The worst thing about it, in my experience is the panic attacks that arose from reaching tolerance level.  After many years, maybe 7 or 10, I started getting severe panic attacks every day; it was a nightmare.  I got out of it myself by searching the net and suspecting that indeed this was addiction.  But my doctor did not know this I don’t think — I was helped and contratulated to get off altogether.  I believe that the longer term benzos are different in this respect – perhaps requiring much longer time to reach tolerance or habituation of the nervous system. I no longer have panic attacks – they destroyed my life and my career during my 30s and 40s – I’m wondering what’s next with the rest of my meds. Squiggles

Response:

the only thing that helped me was the book traveling light.I recommend it to anyone.its by Max Lucado.

Response:

the only thing that helped me was the book traveling light.I recommend it to anyone.its by Max Lucado.

Dawn, No offense but just because the medical establishment hasn’t got it right on psychopharmacology, doesn’t mean that Christianity does.  If it helped you that’s good, but spirituality is one thing and medicine another. Squiggles

Response:

Squiggles, I was not telling anyone that they had to go off their medication,I was just letting everyone know that I like that book and I want everyone to know that it was good.it had nothing to do with medication,because no matter how much I believe in god as my savior,I will always be mentally ill.I am sorry if you thought I was attacking you in anyway.

Response:

I want to know how to make or create a message so it doesn’t appear under someone else’s topic?that’s why squiggles got angry.

Response:

I want to know how to make or create a message so it doesn’t appear under someone else’s topic?that’s why squiggles got angry.

You should have a "post new message" or "new message" command around somewhere, use that instead of replying to someone else’s post. If you reply it will appear linked to the post to which you replied, even if you change the subject line. Can’t be more specific without knowing what program you’re using. Fiona — If we had no winter, the spring would not be so pleasant: if we did not sometimes taste the adversity, prosperity would not be so welcome.      – Anne Bradstreet, Meditations Divine and Moral, 1664

Response:

"Dawn" wrote I want to know how to make or create a message so it doesn’t appear under someone else’s topic?that’s why squiggles got angry.

Do you have a "New Post" button? Oh, I see Fiona has already enswered this. Well, good luck, Dawn. Hugs, TK

Response:

Squiggles, I was not telling anyone that they had to go off their medication,I was just letting everyone know that I like that book and I want everyone to know that it was good.it had nothing to do with medication,because no matter how much I believe in god as my savior,I will always be mentally ill.I am sorry if you thought I was attacking you in anyway.

OK – sorry, I suppose I have become hypervigilant to propaganda on the net.  I apologize. Squiggles

Response:

Benzodiazepines cause cognitive decline and depression.

All of them?  Gasp — I have to take clonazepam for bipolar disorder, and some kids have to take 10 times my dose for epilepsy.  Are you sure? Squiggles

Response:

You have done it! Victoria – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Organization: Road Runner Newsgroups: alt.support.depression.manic,alt.support.personality,alt.support.depression .me dication I want to know how to make or create a message so it doesn’t appear under someone else’s topic?that’s why squiggles got angry.

Response:

    I have the impression that convulsions cause brain damage too. Goblin

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Benzodiazepines cause cognitive decline and depression. All of them?  Gasp — I have to take clonazepam for bipolar disorder, and some kids have to take 10 times my dose for epilepsy.  Are you sure? Squiggles Cognitive Impairment and Long-Term Damage The many papers published in the 1960s and early to mid 1970s on this subject were largely single dose therapeutic dose studies or low-dose studies for periods of a few weeks. They showed a range of deficits in cognitive function, psychomotor performance and short-term memory problems with no development of tolerance. It was not until the late 1970s and early 1980s (when therapeutic dose dependency was belatedly accepted), that cognitive function and other tests on long-term benzodiazepine users (up to 10 years) were studied both during use and in acute withdrawals. From the mid 1980s to mid 1990s there was an increasing number of studies looking at damage after long-term use and at follow-up periods after discontinuation of up to six years. Several of these studies involve CT scans of the brain looking for structural changes. Summary Benzodiazepines produce impairment of cognitive functioning and psychomotor performance e.g. reaction time, vigilance, arousal, judgement, reasoning, speed and accuracy of information processing, visual spatial ability, co-ordination, short-term and post drug long-term memory, ‘blackouts’ and learned tasks. These effects are independent of abuse, dependency, non-dependency, normal, healthy, young or old subjects. Impairment increases with chronic use. Development of tolerance to these effects is very slow. CT brain scans show a difference in ventricular cerebral spinal fluid space dimensions between benzodiazepine users and non-users, and also between high and low benzodiazepine users. The functional brain damage causes increased morbidity, increased mortality and social deterioration. Subjects are generally not aware of their reduced capacity or the fact that they are not functioning well in every day life. In general much of the impairment is slowly reversible. Some aspects show improvement after six years, some are semi-permanent or permanent. http://www.benzo.org.uk/vot4.htm

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Benzodiazepines cause cognitive decline and depression. All of them?  Gasp — I have to take clonazepam for bipolar disorder, and some kids have to take 10 times my dose for epilepsy.  Are you sure? Squiggles Cognitive Impairment and Long-Term Damage The many papers published in the 1960s and early to mid 1970s on this subject were largely single dose therapeutic dose studies or low-dose studies for periods of a few weeks. They showed a range of deficits in cognitive function, psychomotor performance and short-term memory problems with no development of tolerance. It was not until the late 1970s and early 1980s (when therapeutic dose dependency was belatedly accepted), that cognitive function and other tests on long-term benzodiazepine users (up to 10 years) were studied both during use and in acute withdrawals. From the mid 1980s to mid 1990s there was an increasing number of studies looking at damage after long-term use and at follow-up periods after discontinuation of up to six years. Several of these studies involve CT scans of the brain looking for structural changes. Summary Benzodiazepines produce impairment of cognitive functioning and psychomotor performance e.g. reaction time, vigilance, arousal, judgement, reasoning, speed and accuracy of information processing, visual spatial ability, co-ordination, short-term and post drug long-term memory, ‘blackouts’ and learned tasks. These effects are independent of abuse, dependency, non-dependency, normal, healthy, young or old subjects. Impairment increases with chronic use. Development of tolerance to these effects is very slow. CT brain scans show a difference in ventricular cerebral spinal fluid space dimensions between benzodiazepine users and non-users, and also between high and low benzodiazepine users. The functional brain damage causes increased morbidity, increased mortality and social deterioration. Subjects are generally not aware of their reduced capacity or the fact that they are not functioning well in every day life. In general much of the impairment is slowly reversible. Some aspects show improvement after six years, some are semi-permanent or permanent. http://www.benzo.org.uk/vot4.htm

Right, Am I speaking with Ray or Rand or possible David Woolfe’s ghost? Squiggles

Response:

You have done it!

Depends on how the newsreader threads it. In Netscape this shows up with the new subject line but still under the old thread, so I don’t see the new subject line unless I open the old thread for it. Fiona — If we had no winter, the spring would not be so pleasant: if we did not sometimes taste the adversity, prosperity would not be so welcome.      – Anne Bradstreet, Meditations Divine and Moral, 1664

Response:

I want to know how to make or create a message so it doesn’t appear under someone else’s topic?that’s why squiggles got angry.

You just title it and post it usnig new message.I have a AC and have the option of posting to the ngs. — LyndaNP Reality isn’t the way you wish things to be, nor the way they appear to be, but the way they actually are. – Robert J. Ringer

Response:

Dawn I was wondering exactly who you are posting to. Cause right now you are posting to 5 different groups. ~Michele

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I want to know how to make or create a message so it doesn’t appear under someone else’s topic?that’s why squiggles got angry.

Response:

thanks Michelle I was a little confused.I am new to this.I just started.thanks

Response:

    I have the impression that convulsions cause brain damage too. Goblin

correct. very seriously, if left untreated and they are severe convulsions… — ~~~~~<:~~~~~ iriXx "sometimes i get overcharged…   that’s when you see sparks   you ask me where the hell i’m going   at a thousand feet per second…" radiohead: the tourist

Response:

Now I’m confused.  (?) ~Michele

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – thanks Michelle I was a little confused.I am new to this.I just started.thanks

Response:

Dawn I was wondering exactly who you are posting to. Cause right now you are posting to 5 different groups. ~Michele

thats probably cos she hit reply to one of those messages that was crossposted to all and sundry… its not her fault. m — ~~~~~<:~~~~~ iriXx "sometimes i get overcharged…   that’s when you see sparks   you ask me where the hell i’m going   at a thousand feet per second…" radiohead: the tourist

Response:

I didn’t mean for it to sound mean. I really wanted to know who she was posting to. I’m confused.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dawn I was wondering exactly who you are posting to. Cause right now you are posting to 5 different groups. ~Michele thats probably cos she hit reply to one of those messages that was crossposted to all and sundry… its not her fault. m — ~~~~~<:~~~~~ iriXx "sometimes i get overcharged…   that’s when you see sparks   you ask me where the hell i’m going   at a thousand feet per second…" radiohead: the tourist

Response:

I didn’t mean for it to sound mean. I really wanted to know who she was posting to. I’m confused.

its okay. which group are you on? i think this was intended for alt.support.depression.manic m — ~~~~~<:~~~~~ iriXx "sometimes i get overcharged…   that’s when you see sparks   you ask me where the hell i’m going   at a thousand feet per second…" radiohead: the tourist

Response:

Good author—-writes good books!! cal

Response:

Gee, I have been using Klonopin off and on now for around..oh..10 yrs now..in doses from .5 mg to 5mgs daily…..and my brain isnt fried….(half-baked but not fried)…in fact, I had to have an IQ test for the state to see if I was qualified for rehab (and not retarded) last year and had a very hefty score above 140…*but I didnt get to join rehab cuz they tells me I aint KURED enuff to join the work force in doing the menial minimum wage training of cleaning dirty lunch trays-which is what they wanted to ‘train’ me to do-so I could RE-enter society…(I was a paramedic for 16 yrs prior, so cleaning lunch trays was considered something I would be qualified to do thru rehab).. Good thing Ive been taking them tranks tho..keeps my mind clean and ..um, um..what was I saying? Was I saying something?  What the hell am I doing here anyway? Just forget it..I dont even know who you are..stop stealing my jacks or IM gonna tell.. ~Ima – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     I have the impression that convulsions cause brain damage too. Goblin correct. very seriously, if left untreated and they are severe convulsions… — ~~~~~<:~~~~~ iriXx "sometimes i get overcharged…   that’s when you see sparks   you ask me where the hell i’m going   at a thousand feet per second…" radiohead: the tourist

Response:

     i haven’t read this book yet—-what is the "theme"?      i have read some of his other books—he is great.      If this helped you, don’t let ANYONE discourage you!! cal

Response:

EXACTELY. What about the damage these other meds cause like Li and anti psychotics? We could go on and on. Or even the progressive nature of BP/ and connvulsions. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have the impression that convulsions cause brain damage too. Goblin

Response:

I didn’t mean for it to sound mean. I really wanted to know who she was posting to. I’m confused.

its okay. which group are you on? i think this was intended for alt.support.depression.manic m — ~~~~~<:~~~~~ iriXx "sometimes i get overcharged…   that’s when you see sparks   you ask me where the hell i’m going   at a thousand feet per second…" radiohead: the tourist

Response:

Gee, I have been using Klonopin off and on now for around..oh..10 yrs now..in doses from .5 mg to 5mgs daily…..and my brain isnt fried….(half-baked but not fried)…in fact, I had to have an IQ test for the state to see if I was qualified for rehab (and not retarded) last year and had a very hefty score above 140…*but I didnt get to join rehab cuz they tells me I aint KURED enuff to join the work force in doing the menial minimum wage training of cleaning dirty lunch trays-which is what they wanted to ‘train’ me to do-so I could RE-enter society…(I was a paramedic for 16 yrs prior, so cleaning lunch trays was considered something I would be qualified to do thru rehab).. Good thing Ive been taking them tranks tho..keeps my mind clean and ..um, um..what was I saying? Was I saying something?  What the hell am I doing here anyway? Just forget it..I dont even know who you are..stop stealing my jacks or IM gonna tell.. ~Ima – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     I have the impression that convulsions cause brain damage too. Goblin correct. very seriously, if left untreated and they are severe convulsions… — ~~~~~<:~~~~~ iriXx "sometimes i get overcharged…   that’s when you see sparks   you ask me where the hell i’m going   at a thousand feet per second…" radiohead: the tourist

Response:

thanks Michelle I was a little confused.I am new to this.I just started.thanks

Response:

    I have the impression that convulsions cause brain damage too. Goblin

correct. very seriously, if left untreated and they are severe convulsions… — ~~~~~<:~~~~~ iriXx "sometimes i get overcharged…   that’s when you see sparks   you ask me where the hell i’m going   at a thousand feet per second…" radiohead: the tourist

Response:

Now I’m confused.  (?) ~Michele

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – thanks Michelle I was a little confused.I am new to this.I just started.thanks

Response:

Dawn I was wondering exactly who you are posting to. Cause right now you are posting to 5 different groups. ~Michele

thats probably cos she hit reply to one of those messages that was crossposted to all and sundry… its not her fault. m — ~~~~~<:~~~~~ iriXx "sometimes i get overcharged…   that’s when you see sparks   you ask me where the hell i’m going   at a thousand feet per second…" radiohead: the tourist

Response:

I didn’t mean for it to sound mean. I really wanted to know who she was posting to. I’m confused.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dawn I was wondering exactly who you are posting to. Cause right now you are posting to 5 different groups. ~Michele thats probably cos she hit reply to one of those messages that was crossposted to all and sundry… its not her fault. m — ~~~~~<:~~~~~ iriXx "sometimes i get overcharged…   that’s when you see sparks   you ask me where the hell i’m going   at a thousand feet per second…" radiohead: the tourist

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Benzodiazepines cause cognitive decline and depression. All of them?  Gasp — I have to take clonazepam for bipolar disorder, and some kids have to take 10 times my dose for epilepsy.  Are you sure? Squiggles Cognitive Impairment and Long-Term Damage The many papers published in the 1960s and early to mid 1970s on this subject were largely single dose therapeutic dose studies or low-dose studies for periods of a few weeks. They showed a range of deficits in cognitive function, psychomotor performance and short-term memory problems with no development of tolerance. It was not until the late 1970s and early 1980s (when therapeutic dose dependency was belatedly accepted), that cognitive function and other tests on long-term benzodiazepine users (up to 10 years) were studied both during use and in acute withdrawals. From the mid 1980s to mid 1990s there was an increasing number of studies looking at damage after long-term use and at follow-up periods after discontinuation of up to six years. Several of these studies involve CT scans of the brain looking for structural changes. Summary Benzodiazepines produce impairment of cognitive functioning and psychomotor performance e.g. reaction time, vigilance, arousal, judgement, reasoning, speed and accuracy of information processing, visual spatial ability, co-ordination, short-term and post drug long-term memory, ‘blackouts’ and learned tasks. These effects are independent of abuse, dependency, non-dependency, normal, healthy, young or old subjects. Impairment increases with chronic use. Development of tolerance to these effects is very slow. CT brain scans show a difference in ventricular cerebral spinal fluid space dimensions between benzodiazepine users and non-users, and also between high and low benzodiazepine users. The functional brain damage causes increased morbidity, increased mortality and social deterioration. Subjects are generally not aware of their reduced capacity or the fact that they are not functioning well in every day life. In general much of the impairment is slowly reversible. Some aspects show improvement after six years, some are semi-permanent or permanent. http://www.benzo.org.uk/vot4.htm

Right, Am I speaking with Ray or Rand or possible David Woolfe’s ghost? Squiggles

Response:

I want to know how to make or create a message so it doesn’t appear under someone else’s topic?that’s why squiggles got angry.

hey, dont worry…. what system are you using? if you’re on Outlook or Outlook Express, you should have a button at the top marked New Message… hit that instead of hitting reply…. its the same in netscape (which is what im using )…. m — ~~~~~<:~~~~~ iriXx "sometimes i get overcharged…   that’s when you see sparks   you ask me where the hell i’m going   at a thousand feet per second…" radiohead: the tourist

Response:

I want to know how to make or create a message so it doesn’t appear under someone else’s topic?that’s why squiggles got angry.

You just title it and post it usnig new message.I have a AC and have the option of posting to the ngs. — LyndaNP Reality isn’t the way you wish things to be, nor the way they appear to be, but the way they actually are. – Robert J. Ringer

Response:

Dawn I was wondering exactly who you are posting to. Cause right now you are posting to 5 different groups. ~Michele

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I want to know how to make or create a message so it doesn’t appear under someone else’s topic?that’s why squiggles got angry.

Response:

You have done it!

Depends on how the newsreader threads it. In Netscape this shows up with the new subject line but still under the old thread, so I don’t see the new subject line unless I open the old thread for it. Fiona — If we had no winter, the spring would not be so pleasant: if we did not sometimes taste the adversity, prosperity would not be so welcome.      – Anne Bradstreet, Meditations Divine and Moral, 1664

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sorry dude, I tend to agree on the side effects of Xanax..I actually was on Xanax for almost 3 yrs, AND (forgive me) was working as a P.medic at the same time…I was a walking zombie and my partners had to cover my azz more than once cuz I was falling asleep everywhere..I couldnt think straight…I couldnt DRIVE at all, and put my car in the ditch at least once…I was trying to attend college but my grades dropped like a bomb..I felt like I was in another world (I was taking this for panic attacks)…then finally, one day, I was getting into the ambulance and fell out the back door while closing it…that was enuff..withdrawal was HEAVENLY..*I love to puke, since IM also bulimic so this was right up my alley…sigghh…the dry heaves was an added bonus since I also like to punish myself..the headaches werent so cool thooo…any other questions about this lovely wonder drug?  Paxil: I just took this one 2 yrs ago for depression..was on it for about 9 mos….It made me nauseous and my stomach hurt all the time..I had headaches and felt like I had a cold all the time (stuffy head feeling)..withdrawal was not as bad as with some others, but there still was the nauseau/vomiting thing etc..so it felt just like I was still taking it till it was out of my system…blah…~Ima

The worst thing about it, in my experience is the panic attacks that arose from reaching tolerance level.  After many years, maybe 7 or 10, I started getting severe panic attacks every day; it was a nightmare.  I got out of it myself by searching the net and suspecting that indeed this was addiction.  But my doctor did not know this I don’t think — I was helped and contratulated to get off altogether.  I believe that the longer term benzos are different in this respect – perhaps requiring much longer time to reach tolerance or habituation of the nervous system. I no longer have panic attacks – they destroyed my life and my career during my 30s and 40s – I’m wondering what’s next with the rest of my meds. Squiggles

Response:

the only thing that helped me was the book traveling light.I recommend it to anyone.its by Max Lucado.

Response:

the only thing that helped me was the book traveling light.I recommend it to anyone.its by Max Lucado.

Dawn, No offense but just because the medical establishment hasn’t got it right on psychopharmacology, doesn’t mean that Christianity does.  If it helped you that’s good, but spirituality is one thing and medicine another. Squiggles

Response:

Squiggles, I was not telling anyone that they had to go off their medication,I was just letting everyone know that I like that book and I want everyone to know that it was good.it had nothing to do with medication,because no matter how much I believe in god as my savior,I will always be mentally ill.I am sorry if you thought I was attacking you in anyway.

Response:

I want to know how to make or create a message so it doesn’t appear under someone else’s topic?that’s why squiggles got angry.

Response:

I want to know how to make or create a message so it doesn’t appear under someone else’s topic?that’s why squiggles got angry.

You should have a "post new message" or "new message" command around somewhere, use that instead of replying to someone else’s post. If you reply it will appear linked to the post to which you replied, even if you change the subject line. Can’t be more specific without knowing what program you’re using. Fiona — If we had no winter, the spring would not be so pleasant: if we did not sometimes taste the adversity, prosperity would not be so welcome.      – Anne Bradstreet, Meditations Divine and Moral, 1664

Response:

"Dawn" wrote I want to know how to make or create a message so it doesn’t appear under someone else’s topic?that’s why squiggles got angry.

Do you have a "New Post" button? Oh, I see Fiona has already enswered this. Well, good luck, Dawn. Hugs, TK

Response:

Squiggles, I was not telling anyone that they had to go off their medication,I was just letting everyone know that I like that book and I want everyone to know that it was good.it had nothing to do with medication,because no matter how much I believe in god as my savior,I will always be mentally ill.I am sorry if you thought I was attacking you in anyway.

OK – sorry, I suppose I have become hypervigilant to propaganda on the net.  I apologize. Squiggles

Response:

Benzodiazepines cause cognitive decline and depression.

All of them?  Gasp — I have to take clonazepam for bipolar disorder, and some kids have to take 10 times my dose for epilepsy.  Are you sure? Squiggles

Response:

You have done it! Victoria – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Organization: Road Runner Newsgroups: alt.support.depression.manic,alt.support.personality,alt.support.depression .me dication I want to know how to make or create a message so it doesn’t appear under someone else’s topic?that’s why squiggles got angry.

Response:

    I have the impression that convulsions cause brain damage too. Goblin

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Benzodiazepines cause cognitive decline and depression. All of them?  Gasp — I have to take clonazepam for bipolar disorder, and some kids have to take 10 times my dose for epilepsy.  Are you sure? Squiggles Cognitive Impairment and Long-Term Damage The many papers published in the 1960s and early to mid 1970s on this subject were largely single dose therapeutic dose studies or low-dose studies for periods of a few weeks. They showed a range of deficits in cognitive function, psychomotor performance and short-term memory problems with no development of tolerance. It was not until the late 1970s and early 1980s (when therapeutic dose dependency was belatedly accepted), that cognitive function and other tests on long-term benzodiazepine users (up to 10 years) were studied both during use and in acute withdrawals. From the mid 1980s to mid 1990s there was an increasing number of studies looking at damage after long-term use and at follow-up periods after discontinuation of up to six years. Several of these studies involve CT scans of the brain looking for structural changes. Summary Benzodiazepines produce impairment of cognitive functioning and psychomotor performance e.g. reaction time, vigilance, arousal, judgement, reasoning, speed and accuracy of information processing, visual spatial ability, co-ordination, short-term and post drug long-term memory, ‘blackouts’ and learned tasks. These effects are independent of abuse, dependency, non-dependency, normal, healthy, young or old subjects. Impairment increases with chronic use. Development of tolerance to these effects is very slow. CT brain scans show a difference in ventricular cerebral spinal fluid space dimensions between benzodiazepine users and non-users, and also between high and low benzodiazepine users. The functional brain damage causes increased morbidity, increased mortality and social deterioration. Subjects are generally not aware of their reduced capacity or the fact that they are not functioning well in every day life. In general much of the impairment is slowly reversible. Some aspects show improvement after six years, some are semi-permanent or permanent. http://www.benzo.org.uk/vot4.htm

Response:

Sorry dude, I tend to agree on the side effects of Xanax..I actually was on Xanax for almost 3 yrs, AND (forgive me) was working as a P.medic at the same time…I was a walking zombie and my partners had to cover my azz more than once cuz I was falling asleep everywhere..I couldnt think straight…I couldnt DRIVE at all, and put my car in the ditch at least once…I was trying to attend college but my grades dropped like a bomb..I felt like I was in another world (I was taking this for panic attacks)…then finally, one day, I was getting into the ambulance and fell out the back door while closing it…that was enuff..withdrawal was HEAVENLY..*I love to puke, since IM also bulimic so this was right up my alley…sigghh…the dry heaves was an added bonus since I also like to punish myself..the headaches werent so cool thooo…any other questions about this lovely wonder drug?  Paxil: I just took this one 2 yrs ago for depression..was on it for about 9 mos….It made me nauseous and my stomach hurt all the time..I had headaches and felt like I had a cold all the time (stuffy head feeling)..withdrawal was not as bad as with some others, but there still was the nauseau/vomiting thing etc..so it felt just like I was still taking it till it was out of my system…blah…~Ima – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – People with biplar disorder should not take Paxil or any other anti depressant long term. I am sick and tired about all these posts trying to scare people away from trying xanax.  As someone who has suffered from bipolar disorder(type 2) for 15 years, tried all the antidepressants, now on a cocktail of meds, including xanax and paxil, my experience is that PAXIL has many more adverse effects versus the marginal benefit of some anxiety relief.  I took Paxil for 5 months and was not taking any xanax, and I got some anticapation anxiety relief at the cost of NO LIBIDO, sleeping 12 hours a day, having no motivation, just didn’t give a shit, already gained 10 pounds in 5 months with the carbo craving…..And people want to talk about xanax dependency and problems with withdrawl.  I am not trying to minimize people’s experience or their pain, but with anxiety or other mental health issues, the word is YOUR MILEAGE MAY VARY(YMMY).  I am a college graduate in electrical engineering from a top 5 engineering college, and now have not worked for over two years mostly because of anxiety and some depression yearly.  After working for 11 years struggling with depression and anxiety, I now have a hard time stepping outside my home.  I have considered suicide 1000’s of times over the last 15 years, actually researched and made the plans and was about to end it, and then I started on the Paxil…….Yeah, my suicidal obsessions went away, but now I was content to veg out all day watching TY or on the Net, my desire to GET A JOB disappeared.  Go research web sites and you will see how many people have problems with SSRI’s, yeah they are alive and taking that $3 pill two times a day or many $3 pills for me, but now I am NUMB and just there.  Prior to Paxil I use to be a emotional person, felt the pain of others and would cry when touched by something, but now I am a Paxil-zombie, yeah some anxiety relief but a LOT OF ME is also gone.  So all those xanax phobics, please allow people to fail with their options without scaring them.  What are people’s choices when it comes to anxiety or panic, yes paxil, yes benzo’s, yes MAIO’s, yes CBT(Cognitive Behavior Therapy).  My experience is PAXIL SUCKS and THE WITHDRAWAL IS HORRIBLE BASED ON MUCH FEEDBACK I HAVE READ ON THE NET, MAIO’S like parnate have some studies that back them up but the food restrictions are VERY DIFFICULT(no cheese, wine, beer, chocolate, many OTC meds, etc.), CBT might work for some but the feedback I have heard is that CBT plus meds work the best and I HAVE DONE THE THERAPY ROUTE and it was a waste of money. As one doctor told me, people who suffer from PANIC and think they are dieing have never been told that "your not going to die, it is all in your head"…Well that was my last session with him.  Just to repeat, this is MY EXPERIENCE and YOUR MILEAGE MAY VARY.  Now I could continue to HIBERNATE IN MY HOUSE, NOT WORK, RUN OUT OF MONEY AND THEN BE HOMELESS…..Or I can be proactive and continue to experiment and try to find some solution that will allow me to work and have a life.  I have taken xanax in the past, just started it one month ago, still taking a low dose of paxil, and I am MUCH MUCH BETTER at dealing with day to day life, interacting with people, giving my shit done, etc. Yeah, maybe I will be taking xanax for the rest of my life but the only side effect I have had is some sleepiness.  And to those who talk about TOLERANCE BUILDUP, that is a CROCK, yes you might have to increase your xanax from .25mg 3 times a day to .50mg 3 times a day, there are people who have taken xanax for 5 to 15 years and most leveled out after 1 year at a dose and have no desire to increase. People need to do some research and FIND OUT THE REAL TRUTH, not what BIG PHARMA and BIG BUSINESS OWNED MEDIA OUTLETS want us to believe. Not to be cynical, but $3 no generic available paxil is much better for DRUG COMPANIES, then CHEAP GENERIC XANAX which might be more effective with less side-effects.  Why are benzo’s so hard to get, cause drug lobbiest have access to CONGRESS and made sure that THE NO-PROFIT SOLUTIONS(IE LIKE BENZO’S) are not readily available. Linda Channell, (740) 548-6874, 88 Ravine Rd, Powell, OH 43065 Let me make THE NEWCOMERS TO MENTAL ILLNESS aware that HYPE ABOUT THE LATEST ANTIDEPRESSANT HAS EVERYTHING TO DO WITH THE BILLIONS OF DOLLARS THAT WILL BE MADE ON THE DRUG, and the only time you will hear about THE NEGATIVES about that drug will be when it comes off-patent. Now that we have generic prozac, we will hear more about side effects like NO LIBIDO, WEIGHT GAIN, SUICIDE, AND OTHER  EFEECTS.  Of course, as long as Paxil and Zoloft have no generics, MEDIA HYPE will be still muted, but give it time.  Just as all the SSRI’s go generic, we will hear about ALL THE NEGATIVES and out will come the new batch of 8 TO 12 WEEK STUDIED ANTIDEPRESSANTS to start the new profit cycle.  People with mental illness are just pawns, half ass useless meds are approved based on 8 week studies, NO REASON FOR A LONG TERM STUDY, we really don’t want to KNOW THE TRUTH, and as soon as the generics start rolling out, OUT COMES THE DIRTY LAUNDRY, not to HELP US, NO, ONLY SO THAT WE GO ON THE LATEST $5 PILL THAT HAS A 80% SUCCESS RATE AND EVEN LESS SIDE EFFECTS.  Hell as long as everyone is making money, who cares about THE CRAZIES that take the product, we just need them alive and taking their meds.  Now I forget, was I taking about the cigarette industry or drug companies, HELL WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE.  This of course is just the opinion of a mentally ill patient with 15 years of experience popping pills, all of which have a 70% effective rate, but I guess I am the exception, "ALIVE" AND NOT SUICIDAL, AND NOT HAPPY ABOUT IT. White Knight

Response:

Question:

‘Twas 23 Mar 2004 15:46:59 GMT when all alt.support.tourette stood in awe as sesgard…@aol.com (Sesgardner) uttered:

Isn’t this really old information? I could swear I’ve been reading about this for quite some time, and the folks over at "Your Bipolar Child" have known it for years, although they seem to think that it automatically means a child has bipolar disorder if they have a negative reaction to an SSRI.

The background info is old.  The FDA asking for stronger warnings is new. — RB |  

Question:

LEASE STOP NAGGING ALL THE TIME, IT’S GETTING ON MY NERVES! : hilip (indeed, it’s that time of the month again bloating, water retention and boobs that feel like they are being twisted in a vise. Probably breaking out with a few pimples as well? ) Jackie ~*~Would you respect my mind more if it bounced gently when I walked?~*~ — The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

((((((((((((Tony))))))))))))) Don’t be sorry for being absent.  (I know I do the same thing…so slap me) I hope you feel better…because that is what’s most important (I can give advice, but can’t take it…so slap me again)  :-) Hang in there, hun…and I hope you’re feeling ALL better soon. Hugs, Gigglz

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I feel like I’m finally making progress against this sinus infection but today my anxiety has been rising. a) Tapering off the Medrol and feeling withdrawal. b) Tapering off the Medrol and feeling "inflamed". c) Getting better finally and getting my energy back. d) Getting better and now realizing that my Effexor dose     is too high. I’ll let you know how I feel in the morning. Sorry for being absent today. Tony — The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

LEASE STOP NAGGING ALL THE TIME, IT’S GETTING ON MY NERVES! : hilip (indeed, it’s that time of the month again bloating, water retention and boobs that feel like they are being twisted in a vise. Probably breaking out with a few pimples as well? )

LOL! So glad to meet someone who *understands*… P. Jackie ~*~Would you respect my mind more if it bounced gently when I walked?~*~ — The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

PLEASE STOP NAGGING ALL THE TIME, IT’S GETTING ON MY NERVES!

Yes, dear. I understand. Right. Ah-huh. Sorry. Would it help if I whipped myself?  Or jumped off the roof onto my head? What?   OK, I’ll just keep my mouth shut. Chip   ~holding both hands over BIG mouth~ — The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

PLEASE STOP NAGGING ALL THE TIME, IT’S GETTING ON MY NERVES! Yes, dear. I understand. Right. Ah-huh. Sorry. Would it help if I whipped myself?  Or jumped off the roof onto my head?

We won’t know until you try P(MS) — The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

(((Tony))) Hope you figure out what is happening and feel better soon. Take care, Liz

*I feel like I’m finally making progress against this sinus *infection but today my anxiety has been rising. * * *a) Tapering off the Medrol and feeling withdrawal. *b) Tapering off the Medrol and feeling "inflamed". *c) Getting better finally and getting my energy back. *d) Getting better and now realizing that my Effexor dose *    is too high. * *I’ll let you know how I feel in the morning. * *Sorry for being absent today. * *Tony * *– *The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm * — The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

PLEASE STOP NAGGING ALL THE TIME, IT’S GETTING ON MY NERVES! Yes, dear. I understand. Right. Ah-huh. Sorry. Would it help if I whipped myself?  Or jumped off the roof onto my head? We won’t know until you try P(MS)

Good one, P. Chip  :^) — The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Philip, Chocolate…run for chocolate…lol! smiles, Elise

Oh dear, I *love* chocolate, it’s the single best thing ever invented. Unfortunately I have to *lose* weight, not gain any…. P. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sorry you are feeling anxious and irritable today. Are you sure you aren`t PMS`ing? I think all the men on ASAP-M have PMS along with the women. It’s very contagious! Chip  :^) PLEASE STOP NAGGING ALL THE TIME, IT’S GETTING ON MY NERVES! Philip (indeed, it’s that time of the month again — The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm — The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm — The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

I feel like I’m finally making progress against this sinus infection but today my anxiety has been rising. a) Tapering off the Medrol and feeling withdrawal. b) Tapering off the Medrol and feeling "inflamed". c) Getting better finally and getting my energy back. d) Getting better and now realizing that my Effexor dose     is too high. I’ll let you know how I feel in the morning. Sorry for being absent today. Tony — The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi, Tony, Good to hear your sinus problem is starting to get better but the rising anxiety doesn’t sound good.   have no idea of why your anxiety is rising but hope it dissipates and you are feeling lots better today. Please let us know how you are doing today… smiles, Elise

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I feel like I’m finally making progress against this sinus infection but today my anxiety has been rising. a) Tapering off the Medrol and feeling withdrawal. b) Tapering off the Medrol and feeling "inflamed". c) Getting better finally and getting my energy back. d) Getting better and now realizing that my Effexor dose     is too high. I’ll let you know how I feel in the morning. Sorry for being absent today. Tony — The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I feel like I’m finally making progress against this sinus infection but today my anxiety has been rising. a) Tapering off the Medrol and feeling withdrawal. b) Tapering off the Medrol and feeling "inflamed". c) Getting better finally and getting my energy back. d) Getting better and now realizing that my Effexor dose     is too high. I’ll let you know how I feel in the morning. Sorry for being absent today. Tony

I go for C Hope you feel better tomorrow ! Your friend Anna — The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hope you soon feel better, Tony!! MikeH

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I feel like I’m finally making progress against this sinus infection but today my anxiety has been rising. a) Tapering off the Medrol and feeling withdrawal. b) Tapering off the Medrol and feeling "inflamed". c) Getting better finally and getting my energy back. d) Getting better and now realizing that my Effexor dose     is too high. I’ll let you know how I feel in the morning. Sorry for being absent today. Tony

– The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I feel like I’m finally making progress against this sinus infection but today my anxiety has been rising. a) Tapering off the Medrol and feeling withdrawal. b) Tapering off the Medrol and feeling "inflamed". c) Getting better finally and getting my energy back. d) Getting better and now realizing that my Effexor dose     is too high. I’ll let you know how I feel in the morning. Sorry for being absent today. Tony I go for C Hope you feel better tomorrow ! Your friend Anna

I slept on the question and now I know that I’m still sick.  The Medrol had me feeling pretty good while I was on the high dose but now I need to take ibuprofen to relax my nervous system. I need a vacation from this sickness I’m going bananas!!! Your friend, Tony — The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi, Tony, Good to hear your sinus problem is starting to get better but the rising anxiety doesn’t sound good.   have no idea of why your anxiety is rising but hope it dissipates and you are feeling lots better today. Please let us know how you are doing today… smiles, Elise

I’m still sick and my nervous system feels sick. I am coming out of the brain fog and maybe that is making me more aware of how sick my body feels. I took some ibuprofen last night and that helped.  I’ll do it again this morning. Thanks, Tony — The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Sorry you are feeling anxious and irritable today. Are you sure you aren`t PMS`ing? I think all the men on ASAP-M have PMS along with the women. It’s very contagious! Chip  :^)

PLEASE STOP NAGGING ALL THE TIME, IT’S GETTING ON MY NERVES! Philip (indeed, it’s that time of the month again — The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Philip, Chocolate…run for chocolate…lol! smiles, Elise

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sorry you are feeling anxious and irritable today. Are you sure you aren`t PMS`ing? I think all the men on ASAP-M have PMS along with the women. It’s very contagious! Chip  :^) PLEASE STOP NAGGING ALL THE TIME, IT’S GETTING ON MY NERVES! Philip (indeed, it’s that time of the month again — The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm — The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

:I think all the men on ASAP-M have PMS I`m glad you said that and not me :along with the women. I NEVER, EVER, have PMS.  <HISS ~~~ :It’s very contagious! I know, we catch everything from you guys<g! Jackie ~*~Would you respect my mind more if it bounced gently when I walked?~*~ — The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

I know, we catch everything from you guys<g!

Ha ha!  <clap clap clap   ER, I mean:  <applause xo Anne — The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

: :a) Tapering off the Medrol and feeling withdrawal. :b) Tapering off the Medrol and feeling "inflamed". :c) Getting better finally and getting my energy back. :d) Getting better and now realizing that my Effexor dose :    is too high. Sorry you are feeling anxious and irritable today. Are you sure you aren`t PMS`ing? It`s probably a combination of the above that is reeking havoc with you. Rest assured that this is just a temporary feeling. I suggest you lay on the couch all day and pig out on chocolate. That always makes me feel better :I’ll let you know how I feel in the morning. : :Sorry for being absent today. I hope you feel better soon. Don`t worry about being absent, it`s more important to take care of "you". {{{{{Tony}}}}} Jackie ~*~Would you respect my mind more if it bounced gently when I walked?~*~ — The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

glad your sinus infection better hopefully it just a small adjustment till you feel better all around Jim

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I feel like I’m finally making progress against this sinus infection but today my anxiety has been rising. a) Tapering off the Medrol and feeling withdrawal. b) Tapering off the Medrol and feeling "inflamed". c) Getting better finally and getting my energy back. d) Getting better and now realizing that my Effexor dose     is too high. I’ll let you know how I feel in the morning. Sorry for being absent today. Tony — The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Sorry you are feeling anxious and irritable today. Are you sure you aren`t PMS`ing?

I think all the men on ASAP-M have PMS along with the women. It’s very contagious! Chip  :^) — The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I feel like I’m finally making progress against this sinus infection but today my anxiety has been rising. a) Tapering off the Medrol and feeling withdrawal. b) Tapering off the Medrol and feeling "inflamed". c) Getting better finally and getting my energy back. d) Getting better and now realizing that my Effexor dose     is too high. I’ll let you know how I feel in the morning. Sorry for being absent today. Tony

So Tony, how are you feeling today?  I have it today.  Pretty bad too.  The nervous jitters and all.  I hope you are feeling better. BTW, the weather is gorgeous here today.  Mid 60’s sunshine and the beaches are gorgeous (water is around 53 degrees however) Take care, friend, Vicki — The charter is available at:  http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Question:

Modern SSRI antidepressants are good at preventing both depression and ejaculation…..     It’s a well known but little discussed side effect of drugs like prozac, zoloft, effexor, citalopram….. Hello, I was wondering if anyone can help me with a problem I’ve had since I was a teenager.  Everytime I ejaculate, I get a feeling of depression x approximately 2-3 days.    It has nothing to do with anything psychologically but I feel is biochemical.   Does anyone know of a solution or can direct me to a solution for this problem? Thanks R

– Some of my colleagues think that the chemicals we are experimenting with could potentially cause brain damage, however I think that fish crunchy bits of salami my new red hippie noodle. Naked pool frogs?

Response:

Hello, I was wondering if anyone can help me with a problem I’ve had since I was a teenager.  Everytime I ejaculate, I get a feeling of depression x approximately 2-3 days.    It has nothing to do with anything psychologically but I feel is biochemical.   Does anyone know of a solution or can direct me to a solution for this problem? Thanks R

It is possible to abuse sex. It can be very effective as a means of reducing anxiety. It is an addiction much as drinking exsessive amounts of alcohol. Doubt if it’s biochemical any more then an alcoholic that feels depressed when drinking. Contact a therapist that knows anything about sexual issues. And a lot of them don’t know so don’t settle for the first you find. They might also tell you if there is a possibillity that it is a biochemical reaction. J.

Response:

Hello, I was wondering if anyone can help me with a problem I’ve had since I was a teenager.  Everytime I ejaculate, I get a feeling of depression x approximately 2-3 days.    It has nothing to do with anything psychologically but I feel is biochemical.   Does anyone know of a solution or can direct me to a solution for this problem? Thanks R

Response:

I was wondering if anyone can help me with a problem I’ve had since I was a teenager.  Everytime I ejaculate, I get a feeling of depression x approximately 2-3 days.    It has nothing to do with anything psychologically but I feel is biochemical.   Does anyone know of a solution or can direct me to a solution for this problem?

Stop ejaculating and get some good therapy?? Sincerely Stewart — The Metaphor Man  *and*  The Great Defender of the Self (remove the SPAMBLOCK) Please send me an e-mail copy of your posted response.

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Question:

Does anyone know of a good med or combination of meds for social anxiety and depression.  I was on paxil for 6 months and gained 50 lbs and felt like I was on sleeping pills.  It worked great except for the unbearable side effects. Zoloft made me aggressive and mean.  Serzone made me confused and not able to think straight at work.  I’m on wellbutrin now with ativan, but the wellbutrin makes me too anxious.  Anyone have any suggestions that have worked for them? The main things is that I cannot gain any more weight!

Response:

Perhaps try adding in a little Celexa to what you’re already on?   I haven’t used it, but from what I hear, once you get used to it, it seems to be the most side effect free SSRI, and many report weight management okay with it.  –Frel. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Does anyone know of a good med or combination of meds for social anxiety and depression.

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Does anyone know of a good med or combination of meds for social anxiety and depression.  I was on paxil for 6 months and gained 50 lbs and felt like I was on sleeping pills.  It worked great except for the unbearable side effects. Zoloft made me aggressive and mean.  Serzone made me confused and not able to think straight at work.  I’m on wellbutrin now with ativan, but the wellbutrin makes me too anxious.  Anyone have any suggestions that have worked for them? The main things is that I cannot gain any more weight!

Dear Babydoll, It is almost impossible for anyone to "know" what med or med combo will work for you without the side-effects you are trying so hard to avoid. That is the unfortunate part of meds, you just don`t know what will work unless you go on them, it is all trial and error. There is one thing that is quite effective for Social anxiety and it has no side-effects , and that is cognitive behavioral therapy. Take care Jackie ~*~I am the master in my fate; I am the captain of my soul~*~

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Question:

I’ve been depressed for the past several months and I sleep too much. My new doc perscibed prozac and trazodone, has anyone had this experience? wil

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Hi!  I was on Prozac and Trazedone for a couple of years.  I am still taking Trazedone at night (taking other meds during the day).  Trazedone at a therapeutic dose at night will help you sleep good and hopefully will enable you after 8 hours of sleep to awaken refreshed and the Prozac should help keep you movin during the day. My new doc perscibed prozac and trazodone, has anyone had this experience?

<//< Cynthia / Southern California "Jesus Wept"

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I’ve been depressed for the past several months and I sleep too much. My new doc perscibed prozac and trazodone, has anyone had this experience? wil

Wil, I used to take both these meds well before my diagnosis was well defined. I recall the prozac made me feel slightly "wired" and buzzing, and the trazodone was to help with sleep – and it also was supposed to counter the sexual side-effects of the prozac (I found trazodone didn’t help with that).  I later switched to zoloft. For sleep I was later prescribed ambien (which again was supposed to counter the sexual side-effects of zoloft – it didn’t work for me). best, Rick S.

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Wilfredo, I took prozac for a while and trazadone also.  Separately.  I’m currently on no meds for depression (except my thyroid LOL) but I do still occasionally take 50-100 mg of trazadone at night to sleep.  My psychiatrist gave it to me and continues to prescribe it.  It’s on an as needed basis.  I love that stuff! Jane

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve been depressed for the past several months and I sleep too much. My new doc perscibed prozac and trazodone, has anyone had this experience? wil Wil, I used to take both these meds well before my diagnosis was well defined. I recall the prozac made me feel slightly "wired" and buzzing, and the trazodone was to help with sleep – and it also was supposed to counter the sexual side-effects of the prozac (I found trazodone didn’t help with that).  I later switched to zoloft. For sleep I was later prescribed ambien (which again was supposed to counter the sexual side-effects of zoloft – it didn’t work for me). best, Rick S.

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Question:

I have not been on this newsgroup for a long time but feel the need to ask a serious question … is it common or uncommon to experience many terrible & frightening side effects when attempting to come off of Effexor? Over the past month or so  I have been tapering my daily dose of 225 mg Effexor  plus come off of 3 lithobids and 6 buspars a day and am sick as can be with the Effexor … it is the only one left that I am taking (except for a new prescription for Neurontin which is not causing any problems) and am still so sick I can hardly sit here to type. Please if this has been in the NG before and I overlooked it forgive me … if it is something anyone else knows about please answer and let me know if there is any hope that it will end soon. The pain is worse than the problem that made me take it ….

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Hello,     I’ve been through Effexor withdrawal twice and it was pretty unpleasant both times, so you’re not alone.  For me the side effects included noticeable jaw tremor, a buzzing/tingling sensation inside my ear canal, dizziness (which is why you may be feeling sick) and a "spacey" feeling like I wasn’t all there.  These symptoms lasted for about two  months after I completely stopped the medication.  I’ve read on other newsgroups that other people have also had icky withdrawal symptoms from Effexor.  Some of their suggestions were to reduce the dosage very slowly and even to supplement the Effexor with another anti-depressant (such as Prozac) to help mitigate the effects.  Hope this helps,  Diana

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I have not been on this newsgroup for a long time but feel the need to ask a serious question … is it common or uncommon to experience many terrible & frightening side effects when attempting to come off of Effexor? Over the past month or so  I have been tapering my daily dose of 225 mg Effexor  plus come off of 3 lithobids and 6 buspars a day and am sick as can be with the Effexor … it is the only one left that I am taking (except for a new prescription for Neurontin which is not causing any problems) and am still so sick I can hardly sit here to type. Please if this has been in the NG before and I overlooked it forgive me … if it is something anyone else knows about please answer and let me know if there is any hope that it will end soon. The pain is worse than the problem that made me take it ….

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thank you Diana for your words … it helps to know I’m not alone, I will call my doctor tomorrow and see if he has something to help me through this … I dont want to take anything to help me feel *better* if it makes me feel this bad to withdraw …. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hello,    I’ve been through Effexor withdrawal twice and it was pretty unpleasant both times, so you’re not alone.  For me the side effects included noticeable jaw tremor, a buzzing/tingling sensation inside my ear canal, dizziness (which is why you may be feeling sick) and a "spacey" feeling like I wasn’t all there.  These symptoms lasted for about two  months after I completely stopped the medication.  I’ve read on other newsgroups that other people have also had icky withdrawal symptoms from Effexor.  Some of their suggestions were to reduce the dosage very slowly and even to supplement the Effexor with another anti-depressant (such as Prozac) to help mitigate the effects.  Hope this helps,  Diana I have not been on this newsgroup for a long time but feel the need to ask a serious question … is it common or uncommon to experience many terrible & frightening side effects when attempting to come off of Effexor? Over the past month or so  I have been tapering my daily dose of 225 mg Effexor  plus come off of 3 lithobids and 6 buspars a day and am sick as can be with the Effexor … it is the only one left that I am taking (except for a new prescription for Neurontin which is not causing any problems) and am still so sick I can hardly sit here to type. Please if this has been in the NG before and I overlooked it forgive me … if it is something anyone else knows about please answer and let me know if there is any hope that it will end soon. The pain is worse than the problem that made me take it ….

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I had horrible side effects coming off effexor also.  My pdoc gave me extra of another med (I can’t remember what) to tranquilize me and over-sedate me for the withdrawl period.  It was still horrible! Lisa – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – thank you Diana for your words … it helps to know I’m not alone, I will call my doctor tomorrow and see if he has something to help me through this … I dont want to take anything to help me feel *better* if it makes me feel this bad to withdraw …. Hello,    I’ve been through Effexor withdrawal twice and it was pretty unpleasant both times, so you’re not alone.  For me the side effects included noticeable jaw tremor, a buzzing/tingling sensation inside my ear canal, dizziness (which is why you may be feeling sick) and a "spacey" feeling like I wasn’t all there.  These symptoms lasted for about two  months after I completely stopped the medication.  I’ve read on other newsgroups that other people have also had icky withdrawal symptoms from Effexor.  Some of their suggestions were to reduce the dosage very slowly and even to supplement the Effexor with another anti-depressant (such as Prozac) to help mitigate the effects.  Hope this helps,  Diana I have not been on this newsgroup for a long time but feel the need to ask a serious question … is it common or uncommon to experience many terrible & frightening side effects when attempting to come off of Effexor? Over the past month or so  I have been tapering my daily dose of 225 mg Effexor  plus come off of 3 lithobids and 6 buspars a day and am sick as can be with the Effexor … it is the only one left that I am taking (except for a new prescription for Neurontin which is not causing any problems) and am still so sick I can hardly sit here to type. Please if this has been in the NG before and I overlooked it forgive me … if it is something anyone else knows about please answer and let me know if there is any hope that it will end soon. The pain is worse than the problem that made me take it ….

–  **On Feb. 10th 1998, less than 1/3rd of Maine’s registered voters, repealed an amendment that added sexual orientation to the existing Maine Human Rights Act.  They allowed discrimination against gays and lesbians to continue in our state.  Make sure you are registered to vote and GO TO THE POLLS!  Don’t let 31% of your state’s registered voters decide critical issues for your entire state.  Gays and Lesbians in Maine will not give up our fight to stop discrimination**   http://home.att.net/~farklegirl/index.html

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Question:

Boy did this one thing you asked ring a bell.I am tired of hearing a doctor or professional tell me , I couldn’t have felt the affects of the medication because its too early.What a bunch of bull.Too often the real truth is professionals and psychiaitry is practiced so unevenly its truly a sin!.Each time you ask someone else you get a different answer.I too have taken Buspar for a day and instantly felt more relaxed.But I don’t take it too often cause I believe its just a stronger version of valium.at least and at most too strong.You have to determine whats right for you.However incidentally I had a doctor tell me, to take it as needed , no need to take it for weeks.With prozac I didn’t need to take that stuff longer then a week (2 bloody noses) to know what I felt and didn’t need  anyone to tell me what I felt was real or not real. what hogwash.Still glad buspar is around but still waiting for better science. Tell daughter to try exercise, stop smoking and eat healthy .

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I do realize however that some meds do work after getting in blood stream , and some especially anti depressants and mood meds might take a few weeks.Every person is different but more importantly  listen to your body , and incidentally Buspar is not one of the drugs that HAVE to be in your system for weeks.

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My teenage daughter (17 years old)  is taking Buspar for sever anxiety and panic disorder. I was wondering if anyone can help me here. She has just been on this medication for nearly 3 weeks now. Her inital does was 5mg morn 5mg afternoon and 10mg beditime. That was the first 2 weeks. She did show some signs of improvement but not nearly enough. Her dosage has now been increased to 7.5mg morn 7.5mg afternoon and 15mg bedtime. Question here is i understand that it takes weeks for it to take full effectivness, but seems when she feels anxiety now and takes the medication within mins she feels somewhat better. Is this possible, or does it have to reach its full limits before it works? Hope you can understand this question. Thanks in advance!

Hi Dad! BuSpar will *not* block panic attacks. The meds of choice for panic disorder are those that *do* block panic attacks. And these include the benzos (e.g. Xanax, Klonopin, etc) and the SSRIs (e.g. Prozac, Zoloft, Paxil, Celexa, etc.). Sounds like your daughter saw a GP instead of a psychiatrist (who she should see for med advice on panic disorder). Feeling better within minutes of taking a  BuSpar pill is a *placebo* effect (i.e. you have "faith" it will help, and thus it does). Chip Before you buy.

Response:

My teenage daughter (17 years old)  is taking Buspar for sever anxiety and panic disorder. I was wondering if anyone can help me here. She has just been on this medication for nearly 3 weeks now. Her inital does was 5mg morn 5mg afternoon and 10mg beditime. That was the first 2 weeks. She did show some signs of improvement but not nearly enough. Her dosage has now been increased to 7.5mg morn 7.5mg afternoon and 15mg bedtime. Question here is i understand that it takes weeks for it to take full effectivness, but seems when she feels anxiety now and takes the medication within mins she feels somewhat better. Is this possible, or does it have to reach its full limits before it works? Hope you can understand this question. Thanks in advance!

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I sympathize, Neal, and oh, Thank You for answering one of my questions! I took the 3 others, for panic/anxiety… Prozac, zoloft, and paxil, and felt worse within a week. When I was prescribed Buspar, I had no high hopes, but I swear within an hour, I felt a heaviness, rather than extreme panic. An almost calmness, maybe sleepy, and it made me feel better immediately. I was given 7.5 mg, in am and again at pm for a week, then 15 mg am and pm, since then, about 2 months now. It hasnt helped completely, but feel a difference. I’m sorry I can’t answer your question, but sometimes, just having someone share an experience helps, a bit. I have been told by therapist that I may need an increase, but I haven’t felt comfortable about it yet. (also, i had been told before that there are no side effects from paxil, zoloft or prozac, and i KNOW that there are!) so go with what feels right, and what seems to be working- even a little bit at a time.

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Hi, I was recently prescribed Buspar for genreral anxiety disorder and after researching it a bit, I find I’m very confused.  I have both depression and GAD, but it’s the anxiety that’s bothering me most at the moment. (It’s hard sometimes to separate these things into categories, btw).  My question is this (I’m a bit of a newbie poster but I’ve read a lot).  Buspar and and SSRI’s appear to do different things.  Anxiety is apparently caused by too much serotonin. According to the www.buspar.com home page (sponsored by Bristol/Myers/Squibb):          "Your symptoms of persistent anxiety may be due to an imbalance of          a chemical called "serotonin" in the brain. It is believed that          an excess of serotonin may be one of the causes of persistent          anxiety. Other anti-anxiety medications work on different          chemicals in the brain.          BuSpar works differently from other anti-anxiety medications –          BuSpar works on the "serotonin system" in the brain to bring          serotonin levels back to normal." But I thought depression was caused by not enough serotonin.  If this is true, how can a person have both GAD and depression? (a common complaint, judging from a.s.d and a.s.p-a).  The SSRI I took several years ago (zoloft) seemed to greatly allieviate both anxiety and depression and I thought the mechanism was by increasing the effectiveness of serotonin (by inhibiting reuptake and leaving it in the synapses longer). Effectively correcting a _deficiency_ of serotonin. I’m confused. Moreover, my pdoc (confirmed by postings here) says that Buspar is sometimes combined with an antidepressant (SSRI or other) to increase the effective relief — either of GAD, depression or both! They seem to be doing opposite things, wouldn’t they cancel each other out? I’m sure I’m confused because I’m oversimplifying things. A quick history – I’ve had depression and anxiety for as long as I can remember and the only medicinal success I’ve had was with Zoloft several years ago.  Zoloft helped tremendously, it seemed to knock out the anxiety and lifted my depression.  There were side effects (drowsiness, sexual dampening, some word finding trouble), but it worked.  I went off it after I decided I was feeling good enough to give it a try.  The depression and anxiety gradually returned. A year later I tried it again but it increased my anxiety so much (like drinking several pots of coffee!) that I was unable to tolerate it even at small doses and I gave up before it gave me any benefit. Right now I’ve been on Buspar for about a week (10mg/day – I’m sensitive to drugs).  I’m not feeling any better, in fact the main effects seem to be dizziness, drowsiness, headache and poor concentration, even worse than before.  And improving concentration is one of the things Buspar is supposed to help!  And as evidenced by this post, my chronic worry doesn’t seem to be getting any better either  :-)  I seem to be getting a bit of the bruxism/jaw clenching that I recall was a side effect of zoloft too. Can anyone out there, either fellow sufferer or pharmacist help me understand the mechanics of these drugs? Anyway, should I should I stick it out with Buspar for a while (it’s been one week) despite the side effects? How long until I know whether it’s doing anything for me? I do recall that I had similar side effects for a couple weeks with zoloft (even worse.. there  was nausea too) before they started to subside and my depression/anxiety started to improve.  This time around, I’m more skeptical (both from the posts here that say Buspar isn’t generally too effective and from my confusion about how this drug is supposed to work.) The doc says that we may try Buspar in combination with a small dose of an antidepressant if it seems to help at all.  Again, this sounds confusing, but I’ve heard people have had some sucess with this. Thanks in advance -Grisha

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(snip) But I thought depression was caused by not enough serotonin.  If this is true, how can a person have both GAD and depression? (a common complaint, judging from a.s.d and a.s.p-a).  The SSRI I took several years ago (zoloft) seemed to greatly allieviate both anxiety and depression and I thought the mechanism was by increasing the effectiveness of serotonin (by inhibiting reuptake and leaving it in the synapses longer). Effectively correcting a _deficiency_ of serotonin.

This is what I understood, too.  I’m on Zoloft. for GAD. I’m confused. Moreover, my pdoc (confirmed by postings here) says that Buspar is sometimes combined with an antidepressant (SSRI or other) to increase the effective relief — either of GAD, depression or both! They seem to be doing opposite things, wouldn’t they cancel each other out? I’m sure I’m confused because I’m oversimplifying things. A quick history – I’ve had depression and anxiety for as long as I can remember and the only medicinal success I’ve had was with Zoloft several years ago.  Zoloft helped tremendously, it seemed to knock out the anxiety and lifted my depression.  There were side effects (drowsiness, sexual dampening, some word finding trouble), but it worked.

Ah, I’ve ben wondering if my "word finding trouble" (<—good description!) is related to the Zoloft.  I guess maybe it is.   I went off it after I decided I was feeling good enough to give it a try.  The depression and anxiety gradually returned. A year later I tried it again but it increased my anxiety so much (like drinking several pots of coffee!) that I was unable to tolerate it even at small doses and I gave up before it gave me any benefit. Right now I’ve been on Buspar for about a week (10mg/day – I’m sensitive to drugs).  I’m not feeling any better, in fact the main effects seem to be dizziness, drowsiness, headache and poor concentration, even worse than before.

(snip) This probably won’t help you much, but I’ve been reading some of the posts from people on Buspar and wondering just how effective this drug is.  Four people I know were prescribed Buspar for anxiety/panic by their GP’s or OBGYN’s, and all 4 said it made them so much worse! They felt totally out of control on the Buspar, and did so much better on a different drug (Zoloft and maybe Prozac, IIRC).   Luckily, my psych. put me on Z from the get-go and I haven’t had any problems.   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Anyway, should I should I stick it out with Buspar for a while (it’s been one week) despite the side effects? How long until I know whether it’s doing anything for me? I do recall that I had similar side effects for a couple weeks with zoloft (even worse.. there  was nausea too) before they started to subside and my depression/anxiety started to improve.  This time around, I’m more skeptical (both from the posts here that say Buspar isn’t generally too effective and from my confusion about how this drug is supposed to work.) The doc says that we may try Buspar in combination with a small dose of an antidepressant if it seems to help at all.  Again, this sounds confusing, but I’ve heard people have had some sucess with this. Thanks in advance -Grisha

Response:

Hi, I was recently prescribed Buspar for genreral anxiety disorder and after researching it a bit, I find I’m very confused.  I have both depression and GAD, but it’s the anxiety that’s bothering me most at the moment. (It’s hard sometimes to separate these things into categories, btw).  My question is this (I’m a bit of a newbie poster but I’ve read a lot).  Buspar and and SSRI’s appear to do different things.  Anxiety is apparently caused by too much serotonin. According to the www.buspar.com home page (sponsored by Bristol/Myers/Squibb):

Hi, Grisha, good to have you posting <some snipping Bristol/Myers/Squibb were, as one might expect, being a leetle selective with the facts there. As I understand it, no one really knows what causes anxiety disorders. Serotonin is one of the substances impilcated – but just one. It’s important to remember, for example, that a very fair proportion of people on this NG don’t use medications that affect serotonin at all and yet get very effective relief from what they do use – benzodiazepines. Arguably their problem concerns GABA, not serotonin. <more snipping But I thought depression was caused by not enough serotonin.  If this is true, how can a person have both GAD and depression? (a common complaint, judging from a.s.d and a.s.p-a).  The SSRI I took several years ago (zoloft) seemed to greatly allieviate both anxiety and depression and I thought the mechanism was by increasing the effectiveness of serotonin (by inhibiting reuptake and leaving it in the synapses longer). Effectively correcting a _deficiency_ of serotonin.

Exactly right, as I understand it, so possibly a clue why Buspar isn’t widely regarded as an effective medication by the majority of people who’ve posted here? I’m confused. Moreover, my pdoc (confirmed by postings here) says that Buspar is sometimes combined with an antidepressant (SSRI or other) to increase the effective relief — either of GAD, depression or both! They seem to be doing opposite things, wouldn’t they cancel each other out? I’m sure I’m confused because I’m oversimplifying things.

I simply don’t know the answer to this but perhaps one of the wetstuff techies can help us? <yet more snipping Anyway, should I should I stick it out with Buspar for a while (it’s been one week) despite the side effects? How long until I know whether it’s doing anything for me? I do recall that I had similar side effects for a couple weeks with zoloft (even worse.. there  was nausea too) before they started to subside and my depression/anxiety started to improve.  This time around, I’m more skeptical (both from the posts here that say Buspar isn’t generally too effective and from my confusion about how this drug is supposed to work.) The doc says that we may try Buspar in combination with a small dose of an antidepressant if it seems to help at all.  Again, this sounds confusing, but I’ve heard people have had some sucess with this.

Personally, I won’t tolerate side effects lasting more than about ten-14 days, but that’s just me. I worry about Buspar – not because I think it does people harm, but because I sense it is being prescribed as an alternative to benzodiazepines by doctors who have swallowed the myths and propaganda about "addiction" concerning the latter. It’s fair enough to try it, but to persist against the odds seems like bad practice to me. Have you tried the combination of an AD and a benzo? Judging by the posts here, that seems to be the most useful combination for those with coincident depression and I wonder if it might be worth discussing it with your doctor? Just a thought — Gary Cooper

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<snipped some good stuff : I just started takign BuSpar as an enhancer to the Effexor that I’m already taking.   In addition, I take klonopin.  The idea is to get me up to 15 mg/day. I have lots of problems with anxiety, but my main hope for BuSpar is that it will pick up the Effexor…. No longer searching for beauty or love, just some kind of life with the edges taken off. –Jarvis Cocker

Response:

Bristol/Myers/Squibb were, as one might expect, being a leetle selective with the facts there. As I understand it, no one really knows what causes anxiety disorders. Serotonin is one of the substances impilcated – but just one. It’s important to remember, for example, that a very fair proportion of people on this NG don’t use medications that affect serotonin at all and yet get very effective relief from what they do use – benzodiazepines. Arguably their problem concerns GABA, not serotonin.

I’ve heard this theory several times before.  I take it that it is possible that people have a problem with levels of serotonin, and this is causing the anxiety, but the increase in the strength of binding of GABA (which is what the benzos do) has an effect that offsets the effects of the serotonin problem.  This might explain why people get relief from anxiety from both serotoninigic and GABA-related treatments.  (Or, maybe the reverse is the case, for that matter.) People like, e.g. Peter Kramer (and many other people I’ve run across in print) move from the fact that drug x increases y and drug x cures depression that depression is caused by (in part, at least) too little y. I just think that this is a bit quick.  It’s certainly one potential explanation, and perhaps the best one.  But it’s not the only one.  Again, it might be that the depression is caused by some other factor, z, whose effects are overridden by the effects of the increase in y. (Gary–not directed at you personally, and please don’t take me as being pedantic; I don’t mean to be.  Just a question I have about an inference that I see made all over.) <more snipping But I thought depression was caused by not enough serotonin.  If this is true, how can a person have both GAD and depression? (a common complaint, judging from a.s.d and a.s.p-a).  The SSRI I took several years ago (zoloft) seemed to greatly allieviate both anxiety and depression and I thought the mechanism was by increasing the effectiveness of serotonin (by inhibiting reuptake and leaving it in the synapses longer). Effectively correcting a _deficiency_ of serotonin.

Though BuSpar does work for some (just not many, it seems).  I think that this just shows that we’re a long way from understanding how these drugs cure depression and anxiety. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m confused. Moreover, my pdoc (confirmed by postings here) says that Buspar is sometimes combined with an antidepressant (SSRI or other) to increase the effective relief — either of GAD, depression or both! They seem to be doing opposite things, wouldn’t they cancel each other out? I’m sure I’m confused because I’m oversimplifying things. I simply don’t know the answer to this but perhaps one of the wetstuff techies can help us? Anyway, should I should I stick it out with Buspar for a while (it’s been one week) despite the side effects? How long until I know whether it’s doing anything for me? I do recall that I had similar side effects for a couple weeks with zoloft (even worse.. there  was nausea too) before they started to subside and my depression/anxiety started to improve.  This time around, I’m more skeptical (both from the posts here that say Buspar isn’t generally too effective and from my confusion about how this drug is supposed to work.) The doc says that we may try Buspar in combination with a small dose of an antidepressant if it seems to help at all.  Again, this sounds confusing, but I’ve heard people have had some sucess with this.

It depends on how bad the side effects are–BuSpar, like SSRIs, takes 2-4 weeks to really start working (if it does at all). snip  I worry about Buspar – not because I think it does people harm, but because I sense it is being prescribed as an alternative to benzodiazepines by doctors who have swallowed the myths and propaganda about "addiction" concerning the latter. It’s fair enough to try it, but to persist against the odds seems like bad practice to me.

I totally agree. Have you tried the combination of an AD and a benzo? Judging by the posts here, that seems to be the most useful combination for those with coincident depression and I wonder if it might be worth discussing it with your doctor? Just a thought

And, IMHO, the right thought.  I second the motion. Matt

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<some snipping for space People like, e.g. Peter Kramer (and many other people I’ve run across in print) move from the fact that drug x increases y and drug x cures depression that depression is caused by (in part, at least) too little y. I just think that this is a bit quick.  It’s certainly one potential explanation, and perhaps the best one.  But it’s not the only one.  Again, it might be that the depression is caused by some other factor, z, whose effects are overridden by the effects of the increase in y. (Gary–not directed at you personally, and please don’t take me as being pedantic; I don’t mean to be.  Just a question I have about an inference that I see made all over.)

<rest snipped Oh, I certainly don’t Matt. But, personally, I long ago realised that I hadn’t the dedication to go into the minuteae of the neuro-chemistry of this – particularly as it’s such a conjectural field anyway. To do so to any level that might satisfy me intellectually, I’d effectively have to take a DIY med. degree and even then I’d be banging heads with the experts, who seem hopelessly confused themselves – blown around the map of the brain like pre-chronometer navigators I almost hate admitting this to a philosopher but I trust my intuition and that tells me that Clarke’s Law applies here. Too many eminent pshrinks are talking about serotonin for that to possibly be the answer Maybe it is? Maybe it’s CCK? Maybe it’s dopamine? None of us knows so, for now, all we can be is engineers, rather than theoretical physicists. Sometimes I’m not sure that’s a bad thing, either — Gary Cooper

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <some snipping for space People like, e.g. Peter Kramer (and many other people I’ve run across in print) move from the fact that drug x increases y and drug x cures depression that depression is caused by (in part, at least) too little y. I just think that this is a bit quick.  It’s certainly one potential explanation, and perhaps the best one.  But it’s not the only one.  Again, it might be that the depression is caused by some other factor, z, whose effects are overridden by the effects of the increase in y. (Gary–not directed at you personally, and please don’t take me as being pedantic; I don’t mean to be.  Just a question I have about an inference that I see made all over.) <rest snipped

snip I almost hate admitting this to a philosopher but I trust my intuition and that tells me that Clarke’s Law applies here. Too many eminent pshrinks are talking about serotonin for that to possibly be the answer

Maybe it is? Maybe it’s CCK? Maybe it’s dopamine? None of us knows so, for now, all we can be is engineers, rather than theoretical physicists.

Yah, I’m certainly not claiming to know either –just looking at an inference Matt

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[...] But I thought depression was caused by not enough serotonin.  If this is true, how can a person have both GAD and depression?

There’s no conflict there. Psychiatric diagnoses are made on the basis of symptoms not pathophysiology. It’s not like having both diabetes and hypoglycemia. (a common complaint, judging from a.s.d and a.s.p-a).  The SSRI I took several years ago (zoloft) seemed to greatly allieviate both anxiety and depression and I thought the mechanism was by increasing the effectiveness of serotonin (by inhibiting reuptake and leaving it in the synapses longer). Effectively correcting a _deficiency_ of serotonin. I’m confused. Moreover, my pdoc (confirmed by postings here) says that Buspar is sometimes combined with an antidepressant (SSRI or other) to increase the effective relief — either of GAD, depression or both! They seem to be doing opposite things, wouldn’t they cancel each other out? I’m sure I’m confused because I’m oversimplifying things.

[...] _You’re_ confused? Think of the people doing the research. They’re making careers out of their confusion. If anything, you’re confused because you’re approaching the matter as though the antidepressant mechanism of SSRI’s were a settled question. (Come to think of it, this probably screws up the researchers’ heads too). Yes, SSRI’s increase synaptic serotonin — that’s known. What isn’t fully understood is what happens next and how it improves mood. Is it 5HT-receptor upregulation? How significant are the well-known ‘downstream’ effects on dopamine and norepinephrine? Three neurotransmitter systems have been implicated in the doings of buspirone. It is a high-affinity 5HT1A partial agonist. Already a pain in the ass, since it’s not always clear whether a partial agonist acts primarily as an agonist or an antagonist. It may be one or the other depending on many factors. So already you wonder: is the anxiolytic effect based on agonist or antagonist activity? Those who attribute the anxiolytic effect to 5HT activity seem to think of it as an agonist (shutting off of 5HT release), but if it is the other way ’round, antagonizing 5HT1A and preventing natural 5HT shutdown, is anything any less (or more) clear? Next, it appears to be a a2-adrenergic antagonist. Some researchers attribute the anxiolytic effect to this. But this also seems odd in light of the fact that the a2-adrenergic _agonist_ clonidine is famed for its ability to reduce anxiety, particularly in drug withdrawal. And a2-adrenergic antagonists promote norepinephrine production. A sympathomimetic anxiolytic? And then there’s its D2-antagonist activity. This has been dismissed as clinically insignificant, though it does appear prominently in the early research. It’s at least more consistent with what one would expect from a non-GABAergic anxiolytic. But it’s probably not the answer. There is no reason not to be confused. In fact, if you’re not confused, you are either delusional or a marketing executive at Bristol-Myers Squibb.

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  How does BuSpar work? It doesn’t.  BuSpar has no effect at all.

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… Exactly right, as I understand it, so possibly a clue why Buspar isn’t widely regarded as an effective medication by the majority of people who’ve posted here?

I have what might be a simpler clue…the doses commonly used (15-30mg/day) may not be high enough!  I think that if you can tolerate it (start low, go slow), it might be worthwhile to try going up to 90mg/day – especially if you have GAD and depression and no history of panic attacks (BuSpar really isn’t for panic).  30-90mg/day is the dose range for major depression (including melancholic depression).  (The original trials for schizophrenia used doses up to, get this, 2400mg/day, with an average dose around 1500mg/day.) -elizabeth

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I was recently prescribed Buspar for genreral anxiety disorder and after researching it a bit, I find I’m very confused.  I have both depression and GAD, but it’s the anxiety that’s bothering me most at the moment. (It’s hard sometimes to separate these things into categories, btw).  My question is this (I’m a bit of a newbie poster but I’ve read a lot).  Buspar and and SSRI’s appear to do different things.  Anxiety is apparently caused by too much serotonin. According to the www.buspar.com home page (sponsored by Bristol/Myers/Squibb):          "Your symptoms of persistent anxiety may be due to an imbalance of          a chemical called "serotonin" in the brain. It is believed that          an excess of serotonin may be one of the causes of persistent          anxiety. Other anti-anxiety medications work on different          chemicals in the brain.          BuSpar works differently from other anti-anxiety medications –          BuSpar works on the "serotonin system" in the brain to bring          serotonin levels back to normal." But I thought depression was caused by not enough serotonin.  If this is true, how can a person have both GAD and depression? (a common complaint, judging from a.s.d and a.s.p-a).  The SSRI I took several years ago (zoloft) seemed to greatly allieviate both anxiety and depression and I thought the mechanism was by increasing the effectiveness of serotonin (by inhibiting reuptake and leaving it in the synapses longer). Effectively correcting a _deficiency_ of serotonin. I’m confused. Moreover, my pdoc (confirmed by postings here) says that Buspar is sometimes combined with an antidepressant (SSRI or other) to increase the effective relief — either of GAD, depression or both! They seem to be doing opposite things, wouldn’t they cancel each other out? I’m sure I’m confused because I’m oversimplifying things. A quick history – I’ve had depression and anxiety for as long as I can remember and the only medicinal success I’ve had was with Zoloft several years ago.  Zoloft helped tremendously, it seemed to knock out the anxiety and lifted my depression.  There were side effects (drowsiness, sexual dampening, some word finding trouble), but it worked.  I went off it after I decided I was feeling good enough to give it a try.  The depression and anxiety gradually returned. A year later I tried it again but it increased my anxiety so much (like drinking several pots of coffee!) that I was unable to tolerate it even at small doses and I gave up before it gave me any benefit. Right now I’ve been on Buspar for about a week (10mg/day – I’m sensitive to drugs).  I’m not feeling any better, in fact the main effects seem to be dizziness, drowsiness, headache and poor concentration, even worse than before.  And improving concentration is one of the things Buspar is supposed to help!  And as evidenced by this post, my chronic worry doesn’t seem to be getting any better either  :-)  I seem to be getting a bit of the bruxism/jaw clenching that I recall was a side effect of zoloft too. Can anyone out there, either fellow sufferer or pharmacist help me understand the mechanics of these drugs? Anyway, should I should I stick it out with Buspar for a while (it’s been one week) despite the side effects? How long until I know whether it’s doing anything for me? I do recall that I had similar side effects for a couple weeks with zoloft (even worse.. there  was nausea too) before they started to subside and my depression/anxiety started to improve.  This time around, I’m more skeptical (both from the posts here that say Buspar isn’t generally too effective and from my confusion about how this drug is supposed to work.) The doc says that we may try Buspar in combination with a small dose of an antidepressant if it seems to help at all.  Again, this sounds confusing, but I’ve heard people have had some sucess with this. Thanks in advance -Grisha

Grisha — That’s a long message!  I’ve posted on alt.support.anxiety.panic how SSRIs work to the best of my knowledge (someone already corrected me on a mistake I made).  But I’m not sure how Buspar works.  I don’t the the docs really know either.  Someone read it to me in a counseling book, and the authors weren’t too sure either. my advice:  If the shoe fits, wear it.  If it don’t, throw it out. — Geoff

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  How does BuSpar work? It doesn’t.  BuSpar has no effect at all.

Not exactly true.  Current thought is that BuSpar is ineffective for panic, although it may be better for GAD.  My doc refuses to prescribe it for panic.  However, I have recently spoken to a top anxiety specialist who uses it as a second-line med, and has had some positive results with panic disorder patients.  Not all, but some.  He admits he has been too lazy to write this up and get it into the literature So, while there are many meds that are more effective than BuSpar for panic, it is an option for those who have problems with other meds. YMMV hugely. Hirsch

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My pdoc seems to be down on benzos, he called them tranquilizers and seemed to regard them as masking rather than dealing with the problem.  He also said they’re addictive and sedating like alcohol (though this Buspar is having a sedating/groggy inducing effect)  This seems to be a common story. So I doubt I’ll have luck with him giving me the AD/benzo combination that you’ve recommended.  Shopping for another doctor seems just beyond me at this point. Obviously, I should probably be patient and see if the Buspar does anything for me besides side effects.  But if nothing (as seems likely from the consensus here) then what?  Find an AD I can tolerate, perhaps and see if I can suggest he prescribe a benzo?

If the BuSpar doesn’t work, I’d be firm with him.  It’s your body, after all.  Benzos are called "minor tranquilizers," though the connotations of that word probably are such that tehy shouldn’t be called that.  As to their addictiveness–this amounts to the fact that you need to taper off slowly if you’re going to stop taking them if you’ve taken them for a while.  They’re seldom abused by patients, and they almost never are such that you develop a tolerance to their anti-anxiety properties.  Plus, side effect-wise, they’re good drugs.  Most of the side effects go away after a few weeks (the grogginess, sleepiness, etc.) for most people.  Then the anti-anxiety properties remain. You also could go to your gp and talk to her about your situation.  Maybe she’ll be more rational about benzos. Good luck, Matt

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[...] But I thought depression was caused by not enough serotonin.  If this is true, how can a person have both GAD and depression? There’s no conflict there. Psychiatric diagnoses are made on the basis of symptoms not pathophysiology. It’s not like having both diabetes and hypoglycemia.

Thanks everyone for all the information.  You’re all great! I’m glad to know I’m not the only one confused here (I think I’m glad). The mechanism of buspar must be similar in some ways to zoloft, because my side effect profile is similar.  I’m getting jaw clenching and increased tension in my neck and shoulders (where I carry my stress anyway)  (is this norepinephrine?) similar to when I was starting on zoloft.  I’ve got a constant headache (listed as a common side effect) and am sweating like a pig.  Drowsy, dizzy no concentration, still anxious as ever.  No actual _beneficial_ effects yet (after one week) it seems.  It’s very frustrating to say the least because I’m told to be patient and wait for 2-4 weeks to notice anything.  Just my luck I’ll get the sexual side effects too (not that it matters at the moment . Some people have no side effects whatsoever to this drug (or to many of the others), so obviously this neurochemistry thing is extremely complex. I’ve never been on a benzo, so I have no idea what it would feel like to get immediate relief to this chronic worry, tension and anxiety.  I don’t have true Panic Attacks, I don’t think, where I’m paralyzed with panic and have chest pains and everything, but I do hyperventilate and get the tingly face and hands feeling, particularly in traffic, but sometimes for no apparent reason, it just seems like a slightly more intense version of the anxiety I feel all the time. It’s pretty clearly GAD with depression, now, I just need to find something that will take care of it. My pdoc seems to be down on benzos, he called them tranquilizers and seemed to regard them as masking rather than dealing with the problem.  He also said they’re addictive and sedating like alcohol (though this Buspar is having a sedating/groggy inducing effect)  This seems to be a common story. So I doubt I’ll have luck with him giving me the AD/benzo combination that you’ve recommended.  Shopping for another doctor seems just beyond me at this point. Obviously, I should probably be patient and see if the Buspar does anything for me besides side effects.  But if nothing (as seems likely from the consensus here) then what?  Find an AD I can tolerate, perhaps and see if I can suggest he prescribe a benzo? Thanks again everyone for your continued support and explanations (or approximations) of the chemistry behind these drugs. -Grisha

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Yeh Gary, I asked my Doc here in Australia about Buspar long ago – he laughed and said: "I don’t even prescribe that crap for *minor* anxiety, it’s basically useless for panic disorder. Benzodiazapine’s are safer and *much* more effective" He then wrote me a script for Xanax – and asked *me* to tell him how much worked – then asked that I ring his surgery for repeats as needed….

Blimey, Mike – that’s the second good reason I’ve seen for emigration to Oz in the past few weeks! I wish we had a few doctors like that, over here. — Gary Cooper

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<much interesting commentary snipped There is no reason not to be confused. In fact, if you’re not confused, you are either delusional or a marketing executive at Bristol-Myers Squibb.

And ain’t *that* the truth! — Gary Cooper

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<Good Stuff Snipped Exactly right, as I understand it, so possibly a clue why Buspar isn’t widely regarded as an effective medication by the majority of people who’ve posted here?

<More Good Stuff Snipped Yeh Gary, I asked my Doc here in Australia about Buspar long ago – he laughed and said: "I don’t even prescribe that crap for *minor* anxiety, it’s basically useless for panic disorder. Benzodiazapine’s are safer and *much* more effective" He then wrote me a script for Xanax – and asked *me* to tell him how much worked – then asked that I ring his surgery for repeats as needed…. Cheers, Mike from OZ

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Chandra, Yes, I have been there and done that! I suffer from both severe panic (or anxiety) disorder and chronic depression. I had a wonderful family doctor (younger-around 30ish) that was working with me before I became pregnant and at the time I became pregnant. He was super! He was willing to work in the "gray area" and help give me and my unborn child the best of what there was to offer. New doctor’s seem to be better at this. After I voiced my concerns to him (pretty much the same as your’s) he told me that what it came down to was what was best for both mother and child. Sure we all want to be "medication-free" but is that the best thing- even for the unborn child when the mother is not able to be out in the world, lying in bed day after day, terrified unable to care for herself let alone a new baby that’s going to be born, etc…  We all know what effects STRESS has on the already born! Can medication-which hasn’t been proven to cause ill-effects on the fetus be more dangerous than the illness the mother suffers from? No one can know for sure, but both my doctor and I opted for "me" being HEALTHY with medicine over me being gravely unhealthy without needed medication. During my full-term wonderful pregancy, I was taking Prozac, Effexor(an anti-anxiety medication), and another med. I can’t remember at this time. I delivered a superhealthy boy. He weighed 9lbs.13oz. and was 22&1/2 inches long! I only gained 30 lbs. during my pregnancy. Yes, we did tests every trimester, nothing major `just double checking, and had an ulrasound twice (which are nerve racking like everything when your pregnant-your so scared for your baby, but they are such an unbelieveable experience). We even had to induce-he was late! This all happened FIVE YEARS AGO!!! Technology has come along way since then! The question your doctor, and you, needs to answer is which problem will be worse for your unborn baby—medication or a "mentally" unhealthy mother! You should be with a doctor that allows you to help make decisions that are affecting you and you baby! If he doesn’t agree or understand your concerns , or whatever….remember he is YOUR employee and you can find a different doctor. Lots, if not most, have delt with patients such as yourself! I have NO DOUBTS that you will have a beautiful and healthy baby! NONE!!! God is with you! I’d love to talk to you more about it if you like-all you *Also, as far as "hormones" especially during  pregnancy they increase and make worse any problem I’ve found. *F.Y.I. I was 30 at the time of my delivery and am 36 ( just turned) now. Please let me know how things go!

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Hello,      I am new to this message board, but I have been trying to find ANYBODY who can help me out!  I am two months pregnant and I have panic disorder (diagnosed in March of this year) and severe anxiety.  My doctor is weaning me off my paxil (I was on 20 mg. a day) and I had really bad side effects because of it.  Well now I am having severe relapses of panic, which I hadn’t had one for a few months.  I am also suffering severe depression, which I never had before.  I even think about suicide, which I never did before either.  I’m only 22 and this is my first baby and I’m really scared that I’m gonna loose it and not be able to make it. Can anyone else tell me if there was any drug they took while pregnant that won’t hurt my baby?  Also, I wonder if my symptoms are worse because of hormonal changes.  Has anyone one been there, done that?  Please e-mail me any words of wisdom.  I am really scared and wigged out.  I don’t think I can do this without help!  Thanks!

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