Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think I translated it:- I got to thinking and I don’t recall that my insert says anything about interactions. Aleve is a pain reliever, and has naproxim sodium in it. I was using it before, but now my meds are changing around and I am on three steroids, plus Clarintin and I worry. Thanks for all the help so far!!! -AB- Three steroids?  How does that work?  Surely it would be more effective to introduce another group of medication, rather than increasing the one that is most likely to cause side-effects. Do you take the ‘oxis/serevent’ group? Or ’singulair/accolate’ ‘flixotide’ These are all nonsteroidal drugs which have proved useful in the treatment and control of asthma.  They are particularly useful in the case of moderate asthma (which yours sounds like) Good luck, breathe easy… J

Three steroids: Serevent, Pulmicourt, and Albeurterol — I took a long look at my life… perhaps you heard the scream that followed? Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

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Three steroids: Serevent, Pulmicourt, and Albeurterol

That’s one long-acting, non-steroidal bronchodilator, one corticosteroid, and one short-acting, non-steroidal bronchodilator. Chris Owens

Response:

I was wondering when someone was going to point that out. Shannon

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Three steroids: Serevent, Pulmicourt, and Albeurterol That’s one long-acting, non-steroidal bronchodilator, one corticosteroid, and one short-acting, non-steroidal bronchodilator. Chris Owens

Response:

Three steroids: Serevent, Pulmicourt, and Albeurterol

Of this list, only Pulmicort is a steroid.  The other two are bronchodilators [serevent = long-acting, albuterol = short-acting]. BIG difference, and used for fundamentally different things. SW.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Three steroids?  How does that work?  Surely it would be more effective to introduce another group of medication, rather than increasing the one that is most likely to cause side-effects. Do you take the ‘oxis/serevent’ group? Or ’singulair/accolate’ ‘flixotide’ These are all nonsteroidal drugs which have proved useful in the treatment and control of asthma.  They are particularly useful in the case of moderate asthma (which yours sounds like) Good luck, breathe easy… J Three steroids: Serevent, Pulmicourt, and Albeurterol —

Serevent and Albuterol are NOT steroids. The inhaled cortical steroids do not affect the body systemically either. — Robert Schuh "There Can be Only One!" Trane, Jaco, Jimi and Bird are GODS! Donate your organs. Save a life.

Response:

I think I translated it:- I got to thinking and I don’t recall that my insert says anything about interactions. Aleve is a pain reliever, and has naproxim sodium in it. I was using it before, but now my meds are changing around and I am on three steroids, plus Clarintin and I worry. Thanks for all the help so far!!! -AB-

Three steroids?  How does that work?  Surely it would be more effective to introduce another group of medication, rather than increasing the one that is most likely to cause side-effects. Do you take the ‘oxis/serevent’ group? Or ’singulair/accolate’ ‘flixotide’ These are all nonsteroidal drugs which have proved useful in the treatment and control of asthma.  They are particularly useful in the case of moderate asthma (which yours sounds like) Good luck, breathe easy… J

Response:

Does anyone know about if there are any problems with people taking Pulmicourt and using Aleve as a pain reliever? Also, is there anyway to find out the level of steroids from prolonged use of them to control the asthma? -AB- —

I’m not aware of any drug interactions between Pulmicort and Aleve. However, Aleve is an NSAID (naproxen); approx. 15 % of asthmatics are allergic/intolerant of aspirin, naproxen, ibuprofen and other NSAIDS, and can experience breathing difficulty from using them. Pulmicort comes in one strength in the US, 200 ug/puff. It doesn’t build up in your system; it’s metabolized over a few hours. Ellis

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – n other words there is no specific information on drug interactions in the leaflet, at least no as supplied in the UK. Dont understand your question? Perhaps, because english is not my motherlanguage, what is aleve. 1. Astra gives you a paper with the medicine (must be!) A comment on this — the ‘physician’s insert’ only comes with meds in the US.  Well, it may come in other countries too, but some countries DO NOT GET IT, including Canada.  it is entirely possible that the original poster comes form a country where this info is not included with the med, and therefore they have no easy access to it. Thank you for this information. In my Germany (what an intact world) the paper must be with the medicine. From " Fachinformation " for Pulmicort Turbohaler published by Astra for physicians and pharmaceutics from Nov. 1998 "…7 Wechselwirkungen mit anderen Mitteln Budesonid normalisiert, wie alle Kortikosteroide, die Ansrechbarkeit auf beta-2 Sympathomimetika. Die Metabolisierung von Budesonid zu 16alpha- Hydroxyprednisolon und 6beta-Hydroxybudesonid wird durch Substanzen gehemmt, die

Question:

Travis, I currently take Zoloft as well and I have never heard about this kind of side effect. My friend suffered with seizures over the last ten years and was told he was epileptic but it turns out he had a brain tumor and went to the Mayo Clinic to have it removed. Maybe a MRI as requested by your doctor would rule this out? Maybe Benzo’s wouldn’t help you because you were reacting to Zoloft withdrawal, Klonopin would be worth a try now to see if it helps. Good Luck. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Do you take an anti-seizure medication? I tried it (before i chose to stop the Zoloft a while back) but it didn’t help at all.

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Why on earth would you continue to take a drug that caused seizures? Why would any competent doctor prescribe it? Do you take an anti-seizure medication?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I get seizers from Zoloft. Unfortunately, it was the only medication that did anything to help. Since I restarted my medication, I have only passed out three times. But then again, I am not yet at full dosage yet (started at 25mg, increase by 25mg every other week until I reach my needed dose of 200mg). Probably once I get to full dose, I will start the shakes more often. It’s somewhat funny really, I am partially conscious the whole time. I hear but can’t see. I feel but feel no pain. It really freaks people out when it happens in public. Their all like "what do I do?" and stuff. AT least I know when I am going to have one. I just feel somewhat dizzy and seem to emit some sort of mediciney odor (smells like opening a new bottle of medicine). I usually have enough time to prepare, such as setting down the glass of water I may be holding, or sitting down, or whatever. I have yet to get hurt from it. When I fall, it is more of a slow slumping. Anybody else get this type of reaction to Zoloft? ~Travis — My Web: http://www.megalink.net/~farmers/ Gaming section yet to be finished. MT Bike section almost fully compleated. (trail pics work now)

Response:

No offense, man, but I wish I hadn’t read this. Does your doc know? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I get seizers from Zoloft. Unfortunately, it was the only medication that did anything to help. Since I restarted my medication, I have only passed out three times. But then again, I am not yet at full dosage yet (started at 25mg, increase by 25mg every other week until I reach my needed dose of 200mg). Probably once I get to full dose, I will start the shakes more often. It’s somewhat funny really, I am partially conscious the whole time. I hear but can’t see. I feel but feel no pain. It really freaks people out when it happens in public. Their all like "what do I do?" and stuff. AT least I know when I am going to have one. I just feel somewhat dizzy and seem to emit some sort of mediciney odor (smells like opening a new bottle of medicine). I usually have enough time to prepare, such as setting down the glass of water I may be holding, or sitting down, or whatever. I have yet to get hurt from it. When I fall, it is more of a slow slumping. Anybody else get this type of reaction to Zoloft? ~Travis — My Web: http://www.megalink.net/~farmers/ Gaming section yet to be finished. MT Bike section almost fully compleated. (trail pics work now)

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – what are side withdrawl symptoms from coming off paxil? I am been off it 3 days now and my doc switched me to effexor and I just feel really spacy all day. And my body feels like shocks are going through it

its hard to tell which drug is doing what when you make a slide type conversion like this-but chances are its the washout of paxil-give it some time another week to adjust. LM

Response:

what are side withdrawl symptoms from coming off paxil? I am been off it 3 days now and my doc switched me to effexor and I just feel really spacy all day. And my body feels like shocks are going through it

These could very well be Paxil withdrawal symptoms (which are often described as such) in combination with initial Effexor side effects. It will be a temporary inconvenience hopefully as Effexor will have taken over soon. Philip

Response:

what are side withdrawl symptoms from coming off paxil? I am been off it 3 days now and my doc switched me to effexor and I just feel really spacy all day. And my body feels like shocks are going through it

Quite a few people who are weaning off paxil or quit paxil cold turkey complain of those *shock* like feelings in their body. They are not dangerous and it will pass with time. The spacy feeling could be caused by paxil withdrawals and/or weaning on effexor. Again this should pass with time. Take care. Jackie ~~I can’t understand why people are frightened of new ideas. I’m frightened of the old ones~~

Response:

I wonder if it’s the effexor. I am getting electric shocks through my body after I’ve been upped to 150 mg. This shocks start a panic attack. I’ve taken more ativan than I can count lately, and I try to stay away from it. Wanda

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – what are side withdrawl symptoms from coming off paxil? I am been off it 3 days now and my doc switched me to effexor and I just feel really spacy all day. And my body feels like shocks are going through it

Response:

My therapist put me on paxil and it scared me and I stopped taking it because it made me feel like I was loosing control of my muscles, especially in the jaw area.  I was not taking it long enough to really notice any side affects after stopping.  But what has been a big help to me is when I get my anxiety attacks I take hydroxizine.  It makes you pretty drowsy but it takes the edge of the really long anxiety attacks and doesnt make you feel as jittery.  Hang in there and you will find something that works for you.

Response:

what are side withdrawl symptoms from coming off paxil? I am been off it 3 days now and my doc switched me to effexor and I just feel really spacy all day. And my body feels like shocks are going through it

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have used valerian, esp. before I finally broke down, admitted I had a mood disorder, and was put on depakote, then lamictal (another mood stabilizer with fewer side effects — for me — than the depakote).  The valerian made me sleepy consistently, and I felt physically tired and mentally vague, which perhaps mitigated my mood disorder by making me too sleepy to notice how depressed I was.  It didn’t do anything when I was manic, however.  The mania was far stronger than the relatively mild effects of the valerian (I never took a high dose of it).  On the other hand, I’ve never tried it with effexor or wellbutrin, both of which I now take and both of which are fairly activating so I suppose they would offset the dullness factor.  I see no reason why you shouldn’t try it if your pdoc won’t give you a mood stabilizer and you feel you need one.  Why won’t your pdoc give you one?  or an anti-psychotic?  Does he/she not trust your reporting of symptoms that would indicate a need for them?  Maybe you just need a new, and hopefully better-informed, pdoc.  I’ve had five pdocs since beginning medication and not one of them has ever had any problems with prescribing anti-convulsants as mood stabilizers.  What about lithium?  No question that it’s a mood stabilizer, and nothing else.  Don’t overdose on the valerian, though. Start low and see how it goes.  But if I were in your place I’d find another pdoc. Let us know how it goes for you.  Luck. –Allegra

Thanks for the info Allegra… I was thinking of trying Valerian… since my pdoc thinks that i don’t need any kind of medicataion im kinda on my own… wanted to see if ti would help. Tried a veyr low dose for sleep, but it din’t have any effect – wonder if a much larger one would help… Don’t know about Jame’s pdoc, but mine says that there’s nothing biochemically wrong with me… so theres nothing for a pill to fix… how’s that? a pdoc who DOESN’T want to shove medication down your throat!!! last year I wouild have been thinking WOW, but now i’m not so sure… i mean, this guy saw me on Tuesday when i was about readuy to cut my wrists, and told me that my issues would deal with themselves gfiven time! — Kaji/Karenji – dragon/human Shifter depending on mood… *New Dragon Code COMING (one blue moon or another) *ICQ 55339701 – feel free to message me to chat *http://www.labyrinth.net.au/~gsj/Index.html *Wingsister to Viriatha, Tanith, Hespa and Caitlin/Amberynth *Lover of Chocolate, and Occasional Giver of Chocolate Points *Self-Appointed Guardian of the Southern Spring *Keeper of the Sunnydale Lost and Found

Response:

Hey folks: Well, since my pdoc won’t give me some good mood stabalizers or low dose antopsychotic, I am gonna try my 150mg Effexor XR, with a benzo, and Vallerian Root which I HOPE acts in SOME kind of mood stabalizing way. Ya, I know…far from being anything "medically" correct, but it’s much better than the previous cocktail of benzos and codiene I was taking. One thing I noticed with Effexor though is that it can really mess up your memory and alertness all day long. What I may try and do is beg, beg, beg my family doc to take on my psch meds for now, and ask to give a shot at another mood stabalizer or antipsychotic with Effexor or Welbutrin. My family doc was much more enthusiastic about using a mood stabalizer, he started me on depakote, than using benzos. The pdocs don’t seem to want to use ANYTHING not stricly "labled", as I see there is that whole controversy over using different meds for bp. (I guess even if the anticonvulsants are officially "labled" for use in bp, many pdocs still won’t use them.) Yes, there must be a bit of caution in mix and match pharmacy, but we are only here for a limited time, and I want to live as healthy, happy life like everybody does. I think even pdocs (some..not all) don’t realize how painful a mental disorder is. Yes, it’s "different" than physical pain, put the intensity is just as bad. James

Response:

I have used valerian, esp. before I finally broke down, admitted I had a mood disorder, and was put on depakote, then lamictal (another mood stabilizer with fewer side effects — for me — than the depakote).  The valerian made me sleepy consistently, and I felt physically tired and mentally vague, which perhaps mitigated my mood disorder by making me too sleepy to notice how depressed I was.  It didn’t do anything when I was manic, however.  The mania was far stronger than the relatively mild effects of the valerian (I never took a high dose of it).  On the other hand, I’ve never tried it with effexor or wellbutrin, both of which I now take and both of which are fairly activating so I suppose they would offset the dullness factor.  I see no reason why you shouldn’t try it if your pdoc won’t give you a mood stabilizer and you feel you need one.  Why won’t your pdoc give you one?  or an anti-psychotic?  Does he/she not trust your reporting of symptoms that would indicate a need for them?  Maybe you just need a new, and hopefully better-informed, pdoc.  I’ve had five pdocs since beginning medication and not one of them has ever had any problems with prescribing anti-convulsants as mood stabilizers.  What about lithium?  No question that it’s a mood stabilizer, and nothing else.  Don’t overdose on the valerian, though. Start low and see how it goes.  But if I were in your place I’d find another pdoc. Let us know how it goes for you.  Luck. –Allegra

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey folks: Well, since my pdoc won’t give me some good mood stabalizers or low dose antopsychotic, I am gonna try my 150mg Effexor XR, with a benzo, and Vallerian Root which I HOPE acts in SOME kind of mood stabalizing way. Ya, I know…far from being anything "medically" correct, but it’s much better than the previous cocktail of benzos and codiene I was taking. One thing I noticed with Effexor though is that it can really mess up your memory and alertness all day long. What I may try and do is beg, beg, beg my family doc to take on my psch meds for now, and ask to give a shot at another mood stabalizer or antipsychotic with Effexor or Welbutrin. My family doc was much more enthusiastic about using a mood stabalizer, he started me on depakote, than using benzos. The pdocs don’t seem to want to use ANYTHING not stricly "labled", as I see there is that whole controversy over using different meds for bp. (I guess even if the anticonvulsants are officially "labled" for use in bp, many pdocs still won’t use them.) Yes, there must be a bit of caution in mix and match pharmacy, but we are only here for a limited time, and I want to live as healthy, happy life like everybody does. I think even pdocs (some..not all) don’t realize how painful a mental disorder is. Yes, it’s "different" than physical pain, put the intensity is just as bad. James

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Question:

Hi Charla, Thanks for the response.  Gradual is ok with me, so just getting past some of the things that would otherwise stress me out even while on xanax is an indication the Zoloft may be doing some good? I’m glad you didn’t mind my ‘oh so detailed’ rambling.  I was a great student in creative writing in highschool. little bear–who is feeling better just from writing that post last night; theraputic, it was  to get all my ducks in a row….especially after all of the crap about Zoloft hitting this board recently. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Little Bear, I can not translate sorry. But I find your spirit and strength unbeatable in the face of adversary. IME with Zoloft being the first and only AD Ive taken..I could evaluate it helping me in times of trouble..because I did not react as intensly to the stressors. eg. My husband gets layed off,we were living at my moms,a five month old at the time..Snow piling up outside as high as the fence it dawns on me something is working. I was  relaxed and accepting of the circumstance.. I think when you have found the right mg range with the right AD you gradually see results. For me it did not just happen it was a gradual.I did not know when it started working..I just started feeling better. BTW I like your detailed post..:-) Hope all gets better soon Charla — Being safe is about being seen and heard and allowed to be who you are and to speak your truth.                                    —Rachel Naomi Remen,M.D. Hi Everyone! I have been ready to post this for a couple of days now but with all the b*llshit that’s been going on here (of which I admit to being a part of) along with some personal stuff, I just haven’t gotten around to it. I want to let you know how my meds are doing compared to before and just give you my updated condition, and hope to hear from many of you telling me I’m healed  LOL. No, really, just let me know how you think I’m doing as I am a first timer on the AD thing and a long time xanax friend, as well as pain meds which tend also to produce a false sense of well-being. If it were one or the other, I know it would be much simpler to evaluate my progress so please bear with me. (PUN CERTAINLY INTENDED.  ALL RIGHTY THEN, LET’S GET STARTED <g) As you may remember my problems started about 3yrs ago with horrible back pain. I was temporarily living in a town of about 10,000 after being transferred from a mega-city on the west coast.  I saw any and all available docs but I believe I was clearly out of thier league and a bit of a mystery to boot. I had two kids and was a stay at home mom for the first time in my life. (And I’m old <VBG, more than 20 but less than 42). Eventually, after MRI’s and xrays, and limited bloodwork including thyroid, I was told I had no strength in my back and was sent to PT.  This was a joke indeed.  I might as well have been in a 4th grade P.E. class–no hands on, no direction etc.I had no improvement with my back pain but within about 3mos, I had the first of three consecutive PA’s.  Of course, I had no Idea what was happening to me but the ER diagnosed them and a visit to a GP the next day confirmed it. So, that was that; I was given .25mgs xanax twice daily.  I was given very little info about benzos but I assure you, I was miserable enough with the accompaning symptoms (GAD in a nutshell )-) that I would have gladly taken them anyway.  I would have done anything to escape that awful panic/nervousness I was racked with.  And they did the trick. After a year we moved back to the big city.  I became close to a neighbor whos husband had eerily similar symptoms as mine (back and anxiety) and she recommended a doc that was supposedly the finest in his field so I called.  I was desperate by then with my back pain and the panic escalated accordingly.  I was told he was not taking new patients and I quite literally would not hang up, and I cried on the phone basically begging for an appt. until they set me up for 3mos later.  So, I had something to look forward to finally!  This was the time that I thought I could wean off of the xanax (I had learned more about the dependance issue by this time) and I weaned very slowly-or so I thought but I was hit with a series of PA’s almost exactly like the ones a year earlier. A quick call to the doc in the little town on the prairie got me scolded for going off of them with no direction or support and I was back on them but this time at .5mgs 3/day to get the GAD back under control.  I have since (stupidly) tried to stop them again, but I always had other things going on and the GAD was always present so I don’t know what I was thinking except that I wanted to know that I was in control of my own body (I don’t even want to go there). IOW, it was always a huge mistake. In the year since I started seeing this back specialist (he found 3 buldging dics in my back–two in my neck and one in my upper back. He showed me the MRI I had taken in the little town and even I could see them. So, I have endured about 10 cortisone/lidocaine injections either epidural or facet joint injections and have regained full range of motion in my neck and back but the "knife in the back" pain was still there, as painful as ever. When it was clear the injections had done all they could, I was sent on to PT. BTW, this doc is very particular and insists on specific specialists when he refers me, and I go because he obviously knows what he is doing.  I have been seeing a PT doc for about 2mos now and she is marvelous! (So was the shot guy TTTT) My back has been getting better…so much so that I no longer fear some terminal illness the way I constantly used to.  Between the three of these specialists I was finally finding answers to the pain in the back and even relief!   Now, keep in mind, and you might remember I went on Wellbutrin to quit smoking (when hubby had pneumonia in July) and though I did quit smoking (HOORAY FOR ME!!!) the Wellbutrin just about did me in. I was a screaming, sweaty, panicky mess–24hrs a day for about 9wks I think. To be fair, for those of you who are new to this group, I was warned by some of our veterans about Wellbutrin and that it would not be a good choice for someone already suffering anxiety. But for a few reasons, I took it anyway, quit smoking and proved our experts to be experts.  I reacted word for word the way I was warned I would. It was awful but YMMV when it comes to meds. It just wasn’t right for me.  I was then put on Zoloft 50mgs daily and was still getting better in the back pain department.  I had no bad side effects from the Zoloft (some sweating and a little irritablity at first but was immediately better when I put down the Wellbutrin so it’s difficult to say whether it was getting off the W and on the Z or both.  Anyway, out of the blue during PT, it was discovered I have an internal impingement on my right shoulder.  Off to another specialist who says no more PT until he fixes my shoulder either with cortisone injections or simple surgery. H gave me a shot in the bursa? and my elbow was stuck to my waistline for a week. Right arm too….bummer.  The problem is that while I am away from ‘hands on’ PT, my back muscles go back into spasms and my neck tightens up and all of the progress I’ve made is fading quickly.  I am having a bit more difficulty getting in touch with the shoulder doc so no MRI has been scheduled yet and I’m hanging in limbo.  My PT is frustrated for obvious reasons–things were going so well. Let me be clear on something here: when I say my back got so much better, it is to say that the pain went from unbearable to bearable and I was able to move again and because of that progress, I was mentally more at ease (and I always believed the pain caused the anxiety since I could think of nothing else).  Anyway, during the Wellbutrin phase, I was up to the max xanax dose for me 2.5-3mgs daily. It was awful. With the Zoloft, so far 5-6wks? I am down to .25mgs 3/day. But I can feel the urge to take more while I go through the return of the back pain and watching all that progress go down the drain. I may need to go up another .25 each day–either that or chew my lips off, grit my teeth (Oh yeah, I had 3 crowns done last month-I consider dental work a setback just for existing!) or get angry all the time, etc.  See, I was so looking forward to the AD taking over for the xanax–I just knew that Zoloft was the answer.  I feel sorta good on it; I am cautiously optimistic. Now I don’t know what to expect or how I should proceed. I know I have bored you silly—-I don’t know why my posts are always so long.  I guess I don’t want to miss anything and then I read your posts that are so clear and concise and to the point……But I had so many points <BG I look forward to your observations regarding the Zoloft, how much better do you think I should expect to get. How do I know if it’s the right one for me, and isn’t it a bitch that just when I might be able to pull everything together, half of it falls apart. I’m not going to know if the Zoloft helps my anxiety until I have a normal, calm, regular period of time in my life to evaluate it. What I mean is, the thought of the back pain returning in it’s original form is enough to scare the crap out of me. And then there’s the holidays….OMG, don’t know if I am going to make it. Thanks everyone who took the time to read this in it’s entirety.  I look forward to any responses at all. little bear–who

… read more »

Response:

Hi Cheryl, I  have responded in length to other’s posts to this thread and I guess I’ve said all that can be said (hopefully, ASAP is secretely thinking). But thanks for sharing your coffee with me this morning and for your kind words. The "Jim Carrey on Acid:" cracked me up.  See, I can be cracked up. That hasn’t been true for months and months.  Thank you for your prayers, I believe they help–I really do. little bear-who needs a nap now (see you in 6mo) NOT :0} – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Little Bear,   I wish I could help you with the Zoloft issue…but I am on Remeron and I have been on Wellbutrin and it made me nuts!  Jim Carrey on Acid so to speak!  Anyway, your story brought tears to my eyes.  I can identify, being chronically ill myself.  I know the vicious vicious cycles it produces, the one illness festering into another into another.  I am on pain meds myself and the "false sense of well being" really hit me.  When I take them it’s the ONLY time I feel "normal."  Little Bear, you have been through so much and I think you have maintained your sense of self, humor and faith. Just know you are not alone…and I am here and we are all here for you. And I love long posts, I kick back with the old cup of coffee and feel like you are right in my living room.  God bless you, friend.  I will keep you in my prayers and mostly in my thoughts. Hi Everyone! I have been ready to post this for a couple of days now but with all the b*llshit that’s been going on here (of which I admit to being a part of) along with some personal stuff, I just haven’t gotten around to it. I want to let you know how my meds are doing compared to before and just give you my updated condition, and hope to hear from many of you telling me I’m healed  LOL. No, really, just let me know how you think I’m doing as I am a first timer on the AD thing and a long time xanax friend, as well as pain meds which tend also to produce a false sense of well-being. If it were one or the other, I know it would be much simpler to evaluate my progress so please bear with me. (PUN CERTAINLY INTENDED.  ALL RIGHTY THEN, LET’S GET STARTED <g) As you may remember my problems started about 3yrs ago with horrible back pain. I was temporarily living in a town of about 10,000 after being transferred from a mega-city on the west coast.  I saw any and all available docs but I believe I was clearly out of thier league and a bit of a mystery to boot. I had two kids and was a stay at home mom for the first time in my life. (And I’m old <VBG, more than 20 but less than 42). Eventually, after MRI’s and xrays, and limited bloodwork including thyroid, I was told I had no strength in my back and was sent to PT.  This was a joke indeed.  I might as well have been in a 4th grade P.E. class–no hands on, no direction etc.I had no improvement with my back pain but within about 3mos, I had the first of three consecutive PA’s.  Of course, I had no Idea what was happening to me but the ER diagnosed them and a visit to a GP the next day confirmed it. So, that was that; I was given .25mgs xanax twice daily.  I was given very little info about benzos but I assure you, I was miserable enough with the accompaning symptoms (GAD in a nutshell )-) that I would have gladly taken them anyway.  I would have done anything to escape that awful panic/nervousness I was racked with.  And they did the trick. After a year we moved back to the big city.  I became close to a neighbor whos husband had eerily similar symptoms as mine (back and anxiety) and she recommended a doc that was supposedly the finest in his field so I called.  I was desperate by then with my back pain and the panic escalated accordingly.  I was told he was not taking new patients and I quite literally would not hang up, and I cried on the phone basically begging for an appt. until they set me up for 3mos later.  So, I had something to look forward to finally!  This was the time that I thought I could wean off of the xanax (I had learned more about the dependance issue by this time) and I weaned very slowly-or so I thought but I was hit with a series of PA’s almost exactly like the ones a year earlier. A quick call to the doc in the little town on the prairie got me scolded for going off of them with no direction or support and I was back on them but this time at .5mgs 3/day to get the GAD back under control.  I have since (stupidly) tried to stop them again, but I always had other things going on and the GAD was always present so I don’t know what I was thinking except that I wanted to know that I was in control of my own body (I don’t even want to go there). IOW, it was always a huge mistake. In the year since I started seeing this back specialist (he found 3 buldging dics in my back–two in my neck and one in my upper back. He showed me the MRI I had taken in the little town and even I could see them. So, I have endured about 10 cortisone/lidocaine injections either epidural or facet joint injections and have regained full range of motion in my neck and back but the "knife in the back" pain was still there, as painful as ever. When it was clear the injections had done all they could, I was sent on to PT. BTW, this doc is very particular and insists on specific specialists when he refers me, and I go because he obviously knows what he is doing.  I have been seeing a PT doc for about 2mos now and she is marvelous! (So was the shot guy TTTT) My back has been getting better…so much so that I no longer fear some terminal illness the way I constantly used to.  Between the three of these specialists I was finally finding answers to the pain in the back and even relief!   Now, keep in mind, and you might remember I went on Wellbutrin to quit smoking (when hubby had pneumonia in July) and though I did quit smoking (HOORAY FOR ME!!!) the Wellbutrin just about did me in. I was a screaming, sweaty, panicky mess–24hrs a day for about 9wks I think. To be fair, for those of you who are new to this group, I was warned by some of our veterans about Wellbutrin and that it would not be a good choice for someone already suffering anxiety. But for a few reasons, I took it anyway, quit smoking and proved our experts to be experts.  I reacted word for word the way I was warned I would. It was awful but YMMV when it comes to meds. It just wasn’t right for me.  I was then put on Zoloft 50mgs daily and was still getting better in the back pain department.  I had no bad side effects from the Zoloft (some sweating and a little irritablity at first but was immediately better when I put down the Wellbutrin so it’s difficult to say whether it was getting off the W and on the Z or both.  Anyway, out of the blue during PT, it was discovered I have an internal impingement on my right shoulder.  Off to another specialist who says no more PT until he fixes my shoulder either with cortisone injections or simple surgery. H gave me a shot in the bursa? and my elbow was stuck to my waistline for a week. Right arm too….bummer.  The problem is that while I am away from ‘hands on’ PT, my back muscles go back into spasms and my neck tightens up and all of the progress I’ve made is fading quickly.  I am having a bit more difficulty getting in touch with the shoulder doc so no MRI has been scheduled yet and I’m hanging in limbo.  My PT is frustrated for obvious reasons–things were going so well. Let me be clear on something here: when I say my back got so much better, it is to say that the pain went from unbearable to bearable and I was able to move again and because of that progress, I was mentally more at ease (and I always believed the pain caused the anxiety since I could think of nothing else).  Anyway, during the Wellbutrin phase, I was up to the max xanax dose for me 2.5-3mgs daily.  It was awful. With the Zoloft, so far 5-6wks? I am down to .25mgs 3/day. But I can feel the urge to take more while I go through the return of the back pain and watching all that progress go down the drain. I may need to go up another .25 each day–either that or chew my lips off, grit my teeth (Oh yeah, I had 3 crowns done last month-I consider dental work a setback just for existing!) or get angry all the time, etc.  See, I was so looking forward to the AD taking over for the xanax–I just knew that Zoloft was the answer.  I feel sorta good on it; I am cautiously optimistic. Now I don’t know what to expect or how I should proceed. I know I have bored you silly—-I don’t know why my posts are always so long.  I guess I don’t want to miss anything and then I read your posts that are so clear and concise and to the point……But I had so many points <BG I look forward to your observations regarding the Zoloft, how much better do you think I should expect to get. How do I know if it’s the right one for me, and isn’t it a bitch that just when I might be able to pull everything together, half of it falls apart. I’m not going to know if the Zoloft helps my anxiety until I have a normal, calm, regular period of time in my life to evaluate it. What I mean is, the thought of the back pain returning in it’s original form is enough to scare the crap out of me. And then there’s the holidays….OMG, don’t know if I am going to make it. Thanks everyone who took the time to read this in it’s entirety.  I look forward to any

… read more »

Response:

Hi Chip, Good to hear from you!  First of all, don’t I know how complicated my situation is.  That is why it is so difficult to get a handle on any progress made and being terrified to let any of it go (the back thing). Let me itemize a bit. Smoking-easy as could be to stop, never had an urge since. Can take it or leave it for friends and family–would never preach. I always take my meds as prescribed. Never one for the other or vice versa. I do not drink alcohol at all anymore. I used to love it. Problem is, I take pain meds and xanax from the time I get up in the AM every four hours. I am on a pain mgt program so I don’t wait for the pain.  And I just happen to take the xanax at the same time. So if I were to lack one or the other, it would feel the same I’ve been living with the back and shoulder thing for 3yrs, it is better than it has ever been–and I’m mentally better for it, but I also fear a huge setback if this shoulder thing isn’t taken care of soon. I’m comfortable with all of my docs–no added anxiety there, though the shoulder guy could use a better bedside manner and might have warned me about the shoulder pain that resulted from the injection. Also, I would be less stressed if he would call back so we can get going on this. Ironically, my old insurance runs out end of Nov. and is currently paying 100% due I have met max out of pocket for year (boy, that says something doesn’t it?) Holiday season? Can’t avoid it, can I.  So I’ll just blow them away with gourmet stuffings and mouth watering desserts.  Nothing traditional–I need to occupy my mind and feed my ego <VBG.  I got through my husbands near fatal illness this summer without a scratch. You were all a tremendous help (for the 40th time). My husband is the kind of man who takes me as I am. The other morning (the shoulder morning) I walked into the bathroom when he was showering and said, "you know, I think you may want to trade me in on a newer model with a good warranty program, as it seems I’m falling apart a little more each day".  He said, "yeah, but if I recall, I got a lifetime guarantee when I married you". I bitch about him sometimes but he is head and shoulders above any other man I (personally know). And I love him dearly with never a doubt he feels the same way.  How do I rate my recovery?  Well, I feel real happiness for the first time in a long time. I get through situations normally considered difficult, with much more ease. I can go a bit longer between xanax doses. Yesterday I went 7 1/2 hrs (and though you may think they would, pain meds do not control anxiety at all!) And I no longer feel euphoria when taking my pain meds–that pleasant effect lasted a very short time……so I take them on the theory that if I don’t and my back flares up, we can undo much of what we have accomplished.  Much like the situation I face with the shoulder.  My PT is so upset–she could probably use about .25mgs Well Chip, you said all comments were welcome and I handed you a few to get started with but if I had to grade myself it would probably look something like this:  1996-F   1997-F  1998-F 1999 C+ / B- depending on the day–now that is just for my mental state and anxiety. Unfortunately, since my mental outlook depends so much on my physical health, it’s like a yo-yo.  Oh, yeah, nearly forgot–before the Zoloft, I had constant fears of having cancer or any one of 20 different horrible diseases. I tortured myself with thoughts of ‘who will take care of my family when I go’. That seems silly to me now, but it was very real believe me.  I also think the Zoloft has given me the gift of GAB as it works to control the gift of GAD. little bear Little Bear, I know for my recurrant depression and panic anxiety (with agoraphobia) I need a "cocktail" of meds including Klonopin 2 mg/day, Zoloft 150 mg/day, desipramine 50 mg/day, and p.r.n.  Xanax ranging from 0.5 to 1.5 mg/day. It can take time to find the right mixture of meds to make you feel better. And that mixture can change from time to time as your body adjusts to the chronic administration of your meds. You have the additional problems of back and shoulder pain which makes your situation even more complex than mine. I would advise taking pain meds for pain, and anti-anxiety meds for anxiety. I.E. don’t take more Xanax because you have increased back or shoulder pain! (take pain meds) It’s difficult for me to judge how you are doing because you have introduded so many variables into your equation (panic anxiety, cig smoking, back and shoulder pain, fear of "terminal" illness, stress over husband’s illness this past summer,  multiple care providers, upcoming holiday season, etc). Plus, you are married to a man and I know how difficult we can be to live with sometimes! How would you translate your progress? How are you feeling these days? How do you think you are doing? All comments and observations are welcome!! You seem to be in good spirits. Chip my progress? Hi Everyone! I have been ready to post this for a couple of days now but with all the b*llshit that’s been going on here (of which I admit to being a part of) along with some personal stuff, I just haven’t gotten around to it. I want to let you know how my meds are doing compared to before and just give you my updated condition, and hope to hear from many of you telling me I’m healed LOL. No, really, just let me know how you think I’m doing as I am a first timer on the AD thing and a long time xanax friend, as well as pain meds which tend also to produce a false sense of well-being. If it were one or the other, I know it would be much simpler to evaluate my progress so please bear with me. (PUN CERTAINLY INTENDED. ALL RIGHTY THEN, LET’S GET STARTED <g) As you may remember my problems started about 3yrs ago with horrible back pain. I was temporarily living in a town of about 10,000 after being transferred from a mega-city on the west coast. I saw any and all available docs but I believe I was clearly out of thier league and a bit of a mystery to boot. I had two kids and was a stay at home mom for the first time in my life. (And I’m old <VBG, more than 20 but less than 42). Eventually, after MRI’s and xrays, and limited bloodwork including thyroid, I was told I had no strength in my back and was sent to PT. This was a joke indeed. I might as well have been in a 4th grade P.E. class–no hands on, no direction etc.I had no improvement with my back pain but within about 3mos, I had the first of three consecutive PA’s. Of course, I had no Idea what was happening to me but the ER diagnosed them and a visit to a GP the next day confirmed it. So, that was that; I was given .25mgs xanax twice daily. I was given very little info about benzos but I assure you, I was miserable enough with the accompaning symptoms (GAD in a nutshell )-) that I would have gladly taken them anyway. I would have done anything to escape that awful panic/nervousness I was racked with. And they did the trick. After a year we moved back to the big city. I became close to a neighbor whos husband had eerily similar symptoms as mine (back and anxiety) and she recommended a doc that was supposedly the finest in his field so I called. I was desperate by then with my back pain and the panic escalated accordingly. I was told he was not taking new patients and I quite literally would not hang up, and I cried on the phone basically begging for an appt. until they set me up for 3mos later. So, I had something to look forward to finally! This was the time that I thought I could wean off of the xanax (I had learned more about the dependance issue by this time) and I weaned very slowly-or so I thought but I was hit with a series of PA’s almost exactly like the ones a year earlier. A quick call to the doc in the little town on the prairie got me scolded for going off of them with no direction or support and I was back on them but this time at .5mgs 3/day to get the GAD back under control. I have since (stupidly) tried to stop them again, but I always had other things going on and the GAD was always present so I don’t know what I was thinking except that I wanted to know that I was in control of my own body (I don’t even want to go there). IOW, it was always a huge mistake. In the year since I started seeing this back specialist (he found 3 buldging dics in my back–two in my neck and one in my upper back. He showed me the MRI I had taken in the little town and even I could see them. So, I have endured about 10 cortisone/lidocaine injections either epidural or facet joint injections and have regained full range of motion in my neck and back but the "knife in the back" pain was still there, as painful as ever. When it was clear the injections had done all they could, I was sent on to PT. BTW, this doc is very particular and insists on specific specialists when he refers me, and I go because he obviously knows what he is doing. I have been seeing a PT doc for about 2mos now and she is marvelous! (So was the shot guy TTTT) My back has been getting better…so much so that I no longer fear some terminal illness the way I constantly used to. Between the three of these specialists I was finally finding answers to the pain in the back and even relief!

Question:

if you have a brookstone store in your area, you may want to check them out. i don’t remember catching the site soma suggested, but what about this one? http://www.brookstoneonline.com/ you may be able to find the location of the store nearest you that way too….and if they don’t have one in stock they can call around for you–part of the perk of going to an overly expensive store. Julie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Interesting suggestions Julie.  Personally I can sleep in any temperature — warm, cold, in-between, but I can’t stand to get out of bed if it’s cold!  (I personally believe that all mammals, including humans, should hibernate in the winter.  *g*)  We tend to keep the temperature in our house relatively constant. As for the compressed air cans with horns, that’s pretty much what my current alarm clock sounds like!  (I had one in college in my dorm that you could actually hear all the way down the hall.)  I usually need them that loud to wake me up, but I’ve gotten to the point (in my old age) where the noise really is starting to annoy me.  I’m looking for a more "gentle" way to wake up that will still be effective.  Music won’t do it for me unless it’s blasting (and that’s not very gentle either). The dawn simulator alarm clocks are terribly expensive … and apparently hard to come by this time of year!  The site soma referred to is sold out til 12/1.  I found some other sites that carry them — the company that manufactures them sells them for "only" $99.00, but they’re sold out indefinitely.  Obviously this is the wrong time of year to be looking!  I’m thinking that it might be worth a try though — they do have a 30-day money back guarantee if they don’t work. i too get the same way come the cold winter months….the one thing hubby and i have come up with believe it or not works really well for some strange reason. since both of us like to sleep with the air temp in the home quite chilly–about 65F or so and have a prob sleeping when it’s warm–above 72F, what we decided to do (also since he has no problems at getting up at the crack of dawn–read:5:00 amish) was keep the temp low at night, and since he gets up so much earlier than i do, he just cranks up the heat to about 72ish when he gets out of bed.  since it doesn’t take all that long for the place to warm up, and i can’t sleep when it’s too warm (i’m repeating myself, i know)…i am usually up by 6:30 at the latest….besides nothing beats coming out of the shower to a nice warm environment.  after i’ve recharged my body temp in the shower, i turn the heat back down.  it works really well, and since neither of us really want to actually shell out the $100 or so for the sunrise alarm clock…..well, you see where this is going. another thing i’ve done in the past, and still do, is use an alarm clock that plays tapes.  it’s really nice because i put on the music i like and actually want to listen to instead of talk on the usual morning shows.  granted my problem is that the morning show i used to listen to was cancelled and they are now in richmond virginia–anyone in richmond who listens to bender & jackie knows what i’m talking about. maybe those are some options you haven’t looked into? if all else fails, what about those cans of compressed air that have the horns on them? they’ll scare you awake…all you need is someone to use it for you in the am. Julie I actually looked at getting one of those last year, as they are supposed to be good for people with SAD (seasonal affective disorder). I don’t think I actually have SAD, though I do find I tend to be much more fatigued, less enthusiastic, and less inclined to get out of bed as the days get shorter and the weather gets colder.  I’ve always had a horrible time getting out of bed in the morning, and have had to buy alarm clocks with incredibly loud alarms (can you say "air raid siren"?).  I’m at the point where those alarms are getting really annoying to wake up to though, and am looking for something a bit more gentle. Thanks for the info … I’d been wondering how well they actually work. While this technically is not on-topic, it sort of is.   I’ve mentioned on the list a few times that it’s really difficult for me to get up early to exercise when it’s dark outside.   I found the solution, so I thought I’d post about it for other people who may have the same difficulty. It’s called the Soleil Sun Alarm Clock.   It has a little built in lamp, and if you set it for 6:00 a.m., it will start fading from low to high light, just like sunrise.   It has a little beeper thing that goes off at the time you set the clock for, but believe it or not, you usually wake up before the beeper goes off.   It’s pretty darned cool!!! Here is where I bought mine from (no this isn’t a spam, I don’t sell the things, I just really like mine….) http://www.sadlight.com/ss-soleilsunmain.htm BTW, I know it’s expensive, but if you have a committment to exercising every day and early in the morning is the only time slot open, and if you can’t wake up while it’s dark, then it’s really worth the expenditure….. Live well, — soma 180/17?/135 — KC "Never discourage anyone who continually makes progress, no matter how slow." Plato. — KC "Never discourage anyone who continually makes progress, no matter how slow." Plato.

Response:

i tried using a grow light for plants since it is supposed to emulate sunlight. it actually works pretty well, and keeps me warm too (added bonus).  just a thought for you Julie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I totally know what you mean with the air raid sirens.   I’m a pretty light sleeper in the morning, but that doesn’t stop me from rolling over and falling back to sleep if it’s still dark.   It’s just annoying to wake up to a buzzer or a beeper, or worse yet, the radio.   It makes my heart pound and I start shaking before I even get out of bed.   (I have a severe essential tremor in my hands.) So waking up to the light works much better for me.  :-)   I also wondered how they worked and went out on a limb when I bought it, which is why I thought I’d post about it.   Might as well save someone else the anguish of shelling out that much dough for an alarm clock without knowing if it will work. I found the clock while doing searches on SAD, because I knew what I wanted, I just couldn’t remember what it was called.    I don’t have SAD either, but like you, I do find that my energy level decreases a lot in the fall and winter because it’s so dark.   Plus I work in a windowless room all day long!   Bleh!   Maybe next I’ll get some high-intensity light bulbs for a lamp on my desk!  :-) Live well, — soma 180/17?/135 Y2K 60/2000 I actually looked at getting one of those last year, as they are supposed to be good for people with SAD (seasonal affective disorder). I don’t think I actually have SAD, though I do find I tend to be much more fatigued, less enthusiastic, and less inclined to get out of bed as the days get shorter and the weather gets colder.  I’ve always had a horrible time getting out of bed in the morning, and have had to buy alarm clocks with incredibly loud alarms (can you say "air raid siren"?).  I’m at the point where those alarms are getting really annoying to wake up to though, and am looking for something a bit more gentle. Thanks for the info … I’d been wondering how well they actually work.

Response:

I won’t ask what kind of plants Julie <wink Betty i tried using a grow light for plants since it is supposed to emulate sunlight. it actually works pretty well, and keeps me warm too (added bonus).  just a thought for you Julie

Stroll to Goal Barmaid remove the bs to email 255 low fat-cal/249 Atkins/240/150 or Size 9 whichever comes first! On Atkins since 8/22/99

Response:

hehe, tropical….and no funny sharp looking leaves…..cactus actually. (although technically the poker things are sharp funny looking leaves, but not the kind you mean) J – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I won’t ask what kind of plants Julie <wink Betty i tried using a grow light for plants since it is supposed to emulate sunlight. it actually works pretty well, and keeps me warm too (added bonus).  just a thought for you Julie Stroll to Goal Barmaid remove the bs to email 255 low fat-cal/249 Atkins/240/150 or Size 9 whichever comes first! On Atkins since 8/22/99

Response:

I won’t ask what kind of plants Julie <wink Betty

I’m glad to see I’m not the only one whose mind went there.  I knew I could always count on you Betty! Ismile 138/119/115 (for now) Y2K: 250 minutes aerobic; 80 minutes weight lifting; 330 minutes total Don’t exchange what you want most for what you want at the moment.

Response:

I figured she might be growing some "natural herbs" to calm her nerves these days Betty I’m glad to see I’m not the only one whose mind went there.  I knew I could always count on you Betty! Ismile 138/119/115 (for now) Y2K: 250 minutes aerobic; 80 minutes weight lifting; 330 minutes total Don’t exchange what you want most for what you want at the moment.

Stroll to Goal Barmaid remove the bs to email 255 low fat-cal/249 Atkins/240/150 or Size 9 whichever comes first! On Atkins since 8/22/99

Response:

But think of what it would do to your appetite, Betty, my love! Jacqueline 180/148/140 It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I could use a few my self-heaven forbid they should legalize it so those who suffer pain would get some relief!! Betty I think I need some of them "natural herbs" ….    :) IS Manager:  Delete the "not.at." to reply 138/130/120 Y2K Areobics 60 minutes …  I’m trying, just can’t find the time or motivation Stroll to Goal Barmaid remove the bs to email 255 low fat-cal/249 Atkins/240/150 or Size 9 whichever comes first! On Atkins since 8/22/99

Response:

I’m with the legalization thing. I sprained both my ankles and left foot simultaneously once, to the point of hemmorhage. I am not sure I could have got through the first few days but for a friend’s gift of some good Hawaiian stuff. When needed it is highly effective. Cynthia – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I could use a few my self-heaven forbid they should legalize it so those who suffer pain would get some relief!! Betty

Response:

tsk tsk tsk, besides those herbs do nothing for me anyway.  BTDT, useless…. Julie (smiling innocently, nope, not that innocently) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I figured she might be growing some "natural herbs" to calm her nerves these days Betty I’m glad to see I’m not the only one whose mind went there.  I knew I could always count on you Betty! Ismile 138/119/115 (for now) Y2K: 250 minutes aerobic; 80 minutes weight lifting; 330 minutes total Don’t exchange what you want most for what you want at the moment. Stroll to Goal Barmaid remove the bs to email 255 low fat-cal/249 Atkins/240/150 or Size 9 whichever comes first! On Atkins since 8/22/99

Response:

I could use a few my self-heaven forbid they should legalize it so those who suffer pain would get some relief!!   Betty I think I need some of them "natural herbs" ….    :) IS Manager:  Delete the "not.at." to reply 138/130/120 Y2K Areobics 60 minutes …  I’m trying, just can’t find the time or motivation

Stroll to Goal Barmaid remove the bs to email 255 low fat-cal/249 Atkins/240/150 or Size 9 whichever comes first! On Atkins since 8/22/99

Response:

I figured she might be growing some "natural herbs" to calm her nerves these days Betty I think I need some of them "natural herbs" ….    :) IS Manager:  Delete the "not.at." to reply 138/130/120 Y2K Areobics 60 minutes …  I’m trying, just can’t find the time or motivation

Response:

i tried using a grow light for plants since it is supposed to emulate sunlight. it actually works pretty well, and keeps me warm too (added bonus).  just a thought for you

There are full spectrum lights. Ott Lights, and Vitalight are 2 brand names. If you are dealing with SAD, these are the lights you should use. Marianne

Response:

Yes, it might actually give me one Betty But think of what it would do to your appetite, Betty, my love! Jacqueline 180/148/140

Stroll to Goal Barmaid remove the bs to email 255 low fat-cal/249 Atkins/240/150 or Size 9 whichever comes first! On Atkins since 8/22/99

Response:

Interesting suggestions Julie.  Personally I can sleep in any temperature — warm, cold, in-between, but I can’t stand to get out of bed if it’s cold!  (I personally believe that all mammals, including humans, should hibernate in the winter.  *g*)  We tend to keep the temperature in our house relatively constant. As for the compressed air cans with horns, that’s pretty much what my current alarm clock sounds like!  (I had one in college in my dorm that you could actually hear all the way down the hall.)  I usually need them that loud to wake me up, but I’ve gotten to the point (in my old age) where the noise really is starting to annoy me.  I’m looking for a more "gentle" way to wake up that will still be effective.  Music won’t do it for me unless it’s blasting (and that’s not very gentle either). The dawn simulator alarm clocks are terribly expensive … and apparently hard to come by this time of year!  The site soma referred to is sold out til 12/1.  I found some other sites that carry them — the company that manufactures them sells them for "only" $99.00, but they’re sold out indefinitely.  Obviously this is the wrong time of year to be looking!  I’m thinking that it might be worth a try though — they do have a 30-day money back guarantee if they don’t work. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i too get the same way come the cold winter months….the one thing hubby and i have come up with believe it or not works really well for some strange reason. since both of us like to sleep with the air temp in the home quite chilly–about 65F or so and have a prob sleeping when it’s warm–above 72F, what we decided to do (also since he has no problems at getting up at the crack of dawn–read:5:00 amish) was keep the temp low at night, and since he gets up so much earlier than i do, he just cranks up the heat to about 72ish when he gets out of bed.  since it doesn’t take all that long for the place to warm up, and i can’t sleep when it’s too warm (i’m repeating myself, i know)…i am usually up by 6:30 at the latest….besides nothing beats coming out of the shower to a nice warm environment.  after i’ve recharged my body temp in the shower, i turn the heat back down.  it works really well, and since neither of us really want to actually shell out the $100 or so for the sunrise alarm clock…..well, you see where this is going. another thing i’ve done in the past, and still do, is use an alarm clock that plays tapes.  it’s really nice because i put on the music i like and actually want to listen to instead of talk on the usual morning shows.  granted my problem is that the morning show i used to listen to was cancelled and they are now in richmond virginia–anyone in richmond who listens to bender & jackie knows what i’m talking about. maybe those are some options you haven’t looked into? if all else fails, what about those cans of compressed air that have the horns on them? they’ll scare you awake…all you need is someone to use it for you in the am. Julie I actually looked at getting one of those last year, as they are supposed to be good for people with SAD (seasonal affective disorder). I don’t think I actually have SAD, though I do find I tend to be much more fatigued, less enthusiastic, and less inclined to get out of bed as the days get shorter and the weather gets colder.  I’ve always had a horrible time getting out of bed in the morning, and have had to buy alarm clocks with incredibly loud alarms (can you say "air raid siren"?).  I’m at the point where those alarms are getting really annoying to wake up to though, and am looking for something a bit more gentle. Thanks for the info … I’d been wondering how well they actually work. While this technically is not on-topic, it sort of is.   I’ve mentioned on the list a few times that it’s really difficult for me to get up early to exercise when it’s dark outside.   I found the solution, so I thought I’d post about it for other people who may have the same difficulty. It’s called the Soleil Sun Alarm Clock.   It has a little built in lamp, and if you set it for 6:00 a.m., it will start fading from low to high light, just like sunrise.   It has a little beeper thing that goes off at the time you set the clock for, but believe it or not, you usually wake up before the beeper goes off.   It’s pretty darned cool!!! Here is where I bought mine from (no this isn’t a spam, I don’t sell the things, I just really like mine….) http://www.sadlight.com/ss-soleilsunmain.htm BTW, I know it’s expensive, but if you have a committment to exercising every day and early in the morning is the only time slot open, and if you can’t wake up while it’s dark, then it’s really worth the expenditure….. Live well, — soma 180/17?/135 — KC "Never discourage anyone who continually makes progress, no matter how slow." Plato.

– KC "Never discourage anyone who continually makes progress, no matter how slow."   Plato.

Response:

I totally know what you mean with the air raid sirens.   I’m a pretty light sleeper in the morning, but that doesn’t stop me from rolling over and falling back to sleep if it’s still dark.   It’s just annoying to wake up to a buzzer or a beeper, or worse yet, the radio.   It makes my heart pound and I start shaking before I even get out of bed.   (I have a severe essential tremor in my hands.) So waking up to the light works much better for me.  :-)   I also wondered how they worked and went out on a limb when I bought it, which is why I thought I’d post about it.   Might as well save someone else the anguish of shelling out that much dough for an alarm clock without knowing if it will work. I found the clock while doing searches on SAD, because I knew what I wanted, I just couldn’t remember what it was called.    I don’t have SAD either, but like you, I do find that my energy level decreases a lot in the fall and winter because it’s so dark.   Plus I work in a windowless room all day long!   Bleh!   Maybe next I’ll get some high-intensity light bulbs for a lamp on my desk!  :-) Live well, — soma 180/17?/135 Y2K 60/2000 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I actually looked at getting one of those last year, as they are supposed to be good for people with SAD (seasonal affective disorder). I don’t think I actually have SAD, though I do find I tend to be much more fatigued, less enthusiastic, and less inclined to get out of bed as the days get shorter and the weather gets colder.  I’ve always had a horrible time getting out of bed in the morning, and have had to buy alarm clocks with incredibly loud alarms (can you say "air raid siren"?).  I’m at the point where those alarms are getting really annoying to wake up to though, and am looking for something a bit more gentle. Thanks for the info … I’d been wondering how well they actually work.

Response:

i too get the same way come the cold winter months….the one thing hubby and i have come up with believe it or not works really well for some strange reason. since both of us like to sleep with the air temp in the home quite chilly–about 65F or so and have a prob sleeping when it’s warm–above 72F, what we decided to do (also since he has no problems at getting up at the crack of dawn–read:5:00 amish) was keep the temp low at night, and since he gets up so much earlier than i do, he just cranks up the heat to about 72ish when he gets out of bed.  since it doesn’t take all that long for the place to warm up, and i can’t sleep when it’s too warm (i’m repeating myself, i know)…i am usually up by 6:30 at the latest….besides nothing beats coming out of the shower to a nice warm environment.  after i’ve recharged my body temp in the shower, i turn the heat back down.  it works really well, and since neither of us really want to actually shell out the $100 or so for the sunrise alarm clock…..well, you see where this is going. another thing i’ve done in the past, and still do, is use an alarm clock that plays tapes.  it’s really nice because i put on the music i like and actually want to listen to instead of talk on the usual morning shows.  granted my problem is that the morning show i used to listen to was cancelled and they are now in richmond virginia–anyone in richmond who listens to bender & jackie knows what i’m talking about. maybe those are some options you haven’t looked into? if all else fails, what about those cans of compressed air that have the horns on them? they’ll scare you awake…all you need is someone to use it for you in the am. Julie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I actually looked at getting one of those last year, as they are supposed to be good for people with SAD (seasonal affective disorder). I don’t think I actually have SAD, though I do find I tend to be much more fatigued, less enthusiastic, and less inclined to get out of bed as the days get shorter and the weather gets colder.  I’ve always had a horrible time getting out of bed in the morning, and have had to buy alarm clocks with incredibly loud alarms (can you say "air raid siren"?).  I’m at the point where those alarms are getting really annoying to wake up to though, and am looking for something a bit more gentle. Thanks for the info … I’d been wondering how well they actually work. While this technically is not on-topic, it sort of is.   I’ve mentioned on the list a few times that it’s really difficult for me to get up early to exercise when it’s dark outside.   I found the solution, so I thought I’d post about it for other people who may have the same difficulty. It’s called the Soleil Sun Alarm Clock.   It has a little built in lamp, and if you set it for 6:00 a.m., it will start fading from low to high light, just like sunrise.   It has a little beeper thing that goes off at the time you set the clock for, but believe it or not, you usually wake up before the beeper goes off.   It’s pretty darned cool!!! Here is where I bought mine from (no this isn’t a spam, I don’t sell the things, I just really like mine….) http://www.sadlight.com/ss-soleilsunmain.htm BTW, I know it’s expensive, but if you have a committment to exercising every day and early in the morning is the only time slot open, and if you can’t wake up while it’s dark, then it’s really worth the expenditure….. Live well, — soma 180/17?/135 — KC "Never discourage anyone who continually makes progress, no matter how slow." Plato.

Response:

I actually looked at getting one of those last year, as they are supposed to be good for people with SAD (seasonal affective disorder). I don’t think I actually have SAD, though I do find I tend to be much more fatigued, less enthusiastic, and less inclined to get out of bed as the days get shorter and the weather gets colder.  I’ve always had a horrible time getting out of bed in the morning, and have had to buy alarm clocks with incredibly loud alarms (can you say "air raid siren"?).  I’m at the point where those alarms are getting really annoying to wake up to though, and am looking for something a bit more gentle. Thanks for the info … I’d been wondering how well they actually work. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – While this technically is not on-topic, it sort of is.   I’ve mentioned on the list a few times that it’s really difficult for me to get up early to exercise when it’s dark outside.   I found the solution, so I thought I’d post about it for other people who may have the same difficulty. It’s called the Soleil Sun Alarm Clock.   It has a little built in lamp, and if you set it for 6:00 a.m., it will start fading from low to high light, just like sunrise.   It has a little beeper thing that goes off at the time you set the clock for, but believe it or not, you usually wake up before the beeper goes off.   It’s pretty darned cool!!! Here is where I bought mine from (no this isn’t a spam, I don’t sell the things, I just really like mine….) http://www.sadlight.com/ss-soleilsunmain.htm BTW, I know it’s expensive, but if you have a committment to exercising every day and early in the morning is the only time slot open, and if you can’t wake up while it’s dark, then it’s really worth the expenditure….. Live well, — soma 180/17?/135

– KC "Never discourage anyone who continually makes progress, no matter how slow."   Plato.

Response:

thanks for the recommendation! might do a couple of my children some good!  :) rosie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – While this technically is not on-topic, it sort of is.   I’ve mentioned on the list a few times that it’s really difficult for me to get up early to exercise when it’s dark outside.   I found the solution, so I thought I’d post about it for other people who may have the same difficulty. It’s called the Soleil Sun Alarm Clock.   It has a little built in lamp, and if you set it for 6:00 a.m., it will start fading from low to high light, just like sunrise.   It has a little beeper thing that goes off at the time you set the clock for, but believe it or not, you usually wake up before the beeper goes off.   It’s pretty darned cool!!! Here is where I bought mine from (no this isn’t a spam, I don’t sell the things, I just really like mine….) http://www.sadlight.com/ss-soleilsunmain.htm BTW, I know it’s expensive, but if you have a committment to exercising every day and early in the morning is the only time slot open, and if you can’t wake up while it’s dark, then it’s really worth the expenditure….. Live well, — soma 180/17?/135

Response:

i’ve been looking into getting one of those.  they sell it at brookstone i think or sharper image….it looks really cool. Julie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – While this technically is not on-topic, it sort of is.   I’ve mentioned on the list a few times that it’s really difficult for me to get up early to exercise when it’s dark outside.   I found the solution, so I thought I’d post about it for other people who may have the same difficulty. It’s called the Soleil Sun Alarm Clock.   It has a little built in lamp, and if you set it for 6:00 a.m., it will start fading from low to high light, just like sunrise.   It has a little beeper thing that goes off at the time you set the clock for, but believe it or not, you usually wake up before the beeper goes off.   It’s pretty darned cool!!! Here is where I bought mine from (no this isn’t a spam, I don’t sell the things, I just really like mine….) http://www.sadlight.com/ss-soleilsunmain.htm BTW, I know it’s expensive, but if you have a committment to exercising every day and early in the morning is the only time slot open, and if you can’t wake up while it’s dark, then it’s really worth the expenditure….. Live well, — soma 180/17?/135

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I’m one of those people who can’t get out of bed for work, never mind exercise… I have my alarm clock across the room so that when I finally wake up 10 minutes after it started going off, I can switch on the light on my way back.  At least when I do that I don’t hit snooze ten thousand times. Only one thousand times and then I’m so annoyed by the light I get up. This clock sounds like a good idea.  Christmas is coming — Mom? Jennifer in Vancouver Y2K – 100 down; 1900 to go 140/122.5/110 "I’ll make it to the moon if I have to crawl" — Scar Tissue; Red Hot Chili Peppers [seeking Bonnie Sharon Porter] * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

While this technically is not on-topic, it sort of is.   I’ve mentioned on the list a few times that it’s really difficult for me to get up early to exercise when it’s dark outside.   I found the solution, so I thought I’d post about it for other people who may have the same difficulty. It’s called the Soleil Sun Alarm Clock.   It has a little built in lamp, and if you set it for 6:00 a.m., it will start fading from low to high light, just like sunrise.   It has a little beeper thing that goes off at the time you set the clock for, but believe it or not, you usually wake up before the beeper goes off.   It’s pretty darned cool!!! Here is where I bought mine from (no this isn’t a spam, I don’t sell the things, I just really like mine….) http://www.sadlight.com/ss-soleilsunmain.htm BTW, I know it’s expensive, but if you have a committment to exercising every day and early in the morning is the only time slot open, and if you can’t wake up while it’s dark, then it’s really worth the expenditure….. Live well, — soma 180/17?/135

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Question:

jBeth,  are you talking about Luvox? shell

Response:

Brand name Faverin in the UK. Heard it’s good for OCD and depression.

Hi Beth, Fluvoxamine is similar to Prozac in many ways and is used for depression and OCD (an aside to Shell — yes, it’s Luvox in the USA). Response to antideps varies enormously from person to person, and what works for one may not work for another; unfortunately, psychiatric medicine is still rather hit and miss, and trial-and-error is usually the only way to find the right med for you. There are some major risks of interactions with this drug, including terfenadine and astemizole (antihistamines), cisapride ("propulsid", a motility stimulant), warfarin, theophylline, certain benzodiazepines and phenytoin. Or what about sertraline (Lustral/Zoloft)?

That has a slightly broader collection of possible side effects than some of the other SSRIs, though much less risk of drug interactions than fluvoxamine, and has been known to work in some people who have had only limited success with other antideps. Curiously, in the UK it’s not listed as a treatment for OCD, but only depression, while clinical trial data indicates that it *is* effective in OCD too. Some people who don’t get a good result from SSRIs have fared better with venlafaxine (Effexor) or with the SNRI reboxetine (Edronax), though again neither of these is listed as appropriate for treatment of OCD. Hope this info helps, and good luck! love from Julie.

Response:

x-no-arcive: yes                 i tried luvox (generic name – fluvoxamine) for my OCD. i found effexor to work much better. hope some medication works for you soon.

Response:

Brand name Faverin in the UK. Heard it’s good for OCD and depression. Or what about sertraline (Lustral/Zoloft)? Am going back on meds and don’t know whether Paxil (Seroxat) is worth trying (again!) BEth — ("That I would be good if I got and stayed sick   That I would be good even if I gained ten pounds" –  Alanis Morissette)

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Question:

Jeff writes  (lots snipped): "I’m not sure what to do. I think it’s time to try this but I’m nervous. Maybe I’m not really depressed. I’m not sick, am I? Disease? I don’t have any disease, I’m just kinda sad. Um, maybe I’m just tired or something." When I was in the hospital the first time (1983?) the first thing they did was give me  a blood test, which was supposed to show whether I was depressed or not.  All I could think, until the results came back, was "What if I’m _not_ depressed!  What if they won’t try to help me!  THEN what am I supposed to do?"  I smile at this, now, but I was so miserable then, and I was so tired of trying to figure it out by myself.   "See I’m worried that I’m making the "easy" move. That I’m giving up the fight." I didn’t take meds for about 11 years, after that first hospitalization. I did stay with my shrink for 3 years.  I fought all that time.  Fighting wore me out, and I finally gave in and tried Zoloft.  It was a big help, that first time around, but I stopped taking it and life almost immediately threw me a series of curve balls that I couldn’t hit back. Now I’m taking it again (31 days in, now) and I’m noticing this time how it helps me to fight, but without allowing me to stop.  I still have to use all of the resources I learned in therapy to keep going.  And life is still hard.  But it is a little easier with Zoloft than without.  I highly recommend it.   "And what about side effects?" Zoloft has never made me sleepy.  It seems to make me wake up faster, in fact.  Sometimes I get sorta edgy, but I’m not sure if that’s me or the med.  The most noticable side effect I’ve had is occasional diarhea, but I’d trade chronic depression for that anyday. "The truth is I do want to try this. I think it can work. I think that if it does work I might have the strength to fight back and put my life where I’d like it to be. I think that if I battle the biological agents of this disease I can learn to live with the psychology of  my world. (Of course I worry that I’m setting myself up for a fall.) I am kind of excited, because I feel like maybe I’m starting to help myself." Here is something you wrote to me when I first started posting here.  It might bear re-reading: "Right now I’m coming to terms with my depression. Instead of being one of the walking wounded, I’m trying to get better….To tell you the truth, I’m not sure if anyone wants to read what I say. I’m not sure if they’ll respond. But I’m going to do it anyway. Because I want to try to help myself." Since you wrote that, I have watched you go through your first therapy session, publish an article (which, BTW, I really enjoyed), and now you’re going on meds.  I am very, very proud of you.  You really ARE doing everything you can to help yourself, and I feel confident that you will win this fight.  Keep it up, and keep us posted. My one real piece of advice about Zoloft is to remember that it may seem to do _nothing_ for several weeks.  Hang in there during that time, even if you get sad or frustrated.   Cheering for Jeffrey, marijo

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Jeff said: I’m not sure what to do. I think it’s time to try this but I’m nervous. Maybe I’m not really depressed. I’m not sick, am I? Disease? I don’t have any disease, I’m just kinda sad. Um, maybe I’m just tired or something. Maybe I should try meditating like my friend said. See I’m worried that I’m making the "easy" move.  That I’m giving up the fight.

Naturally you need to do what seems right to you, so this is not an attempt to "talk you into something", but just some insight from someone who "has been there".  OK?  (Not twisting your arm, and everyone is different, so your mileage may vary.) Five months ago I was pretty much a basket case.  I had been waging my own fight against depression, and I was losing the fight _big time_.  Wasn’t functioning well at work or at home, losing weight, couldn’t sleep, and just a wreck. I finally decided that this battle was not a "do it yourself" project, and went to see my GP.  He diagnosed depression, gave me a prescription for Zoloft, and referred me to a psychologist. Within a couple of weeks it was clear I was winning the battle I had been trying to fight for years (I am in my late 50’s) with no success. I was again functional, although maybe still a bit "fragile", and in a few more weeks it really was hard to remember how bad I felt for years.  Now, 5 months later, I no longer visit the therp and am easing down on my Zoloft.  I can only kick myself for waiting so long! It’s not a "miracle" cure….  just taking the pill will not work by itself, but it gave me that extra help that I needed.  I also used meditation, a lot of physical exercise, and the support of my family.  Also, the folks here at ASD were a big help, even if they didn’t know it since I have never posted here before, just lurked. Those areall tools I will continue to use, and hopefully I can go from here without medication, but I will not hesitate to go back to Zoloft if it seems I am "losing it". And what about side effects? Am I asking for more trouble than I’ve already got? And is Zoloft the right one? You guys say it makes you sleepy. She said the good thing about it is that it doesn’t make you sleepy. (I know everyone’s different)

In my case the side effects were minimal.  Didn’t make me sleepy, but did have an effect on my sex life.  No loss of desire or "ability" or enjoyment, but it just "takes longer". (At my age, everything takes longer! <grin) Are the side effects really that bad?

Not in my case. Does it matter if it beats back the depression?

Most of the side effects I’ve heard of would be much less painful than the depression. Just a final thought.  The meds do not work "overnight".  In my case it took a couple of weeks, and I’ve heard that it can take even longer before you really notice a dramatic change, although just  "finally doing something about it" will probably give you a better attitude. Hang in there! "I used to wish the universe were fair.  Then one day it hit me:  What if the universe were fair?  Then all the awful things that  happen to us in life, would happen because we deserved  them.  So now I take great pleasure in the general hostility  and unfairness of things." — For more information about this service, send e-mail to:

Response:

Ok, so I finally got my Phych. appointment. We talked for a while and she ultimately reccomended that I give meds a shot. My therp also reccomends. She wants to go with Zoloft. She thinks that it has the least interactions and she’s had the most success with it. So she gave me the prescription.

When I was seeing a psych, that was what my scrip was; no side effects for me, wonderful mental clarity- I finally had a glimpse of what I believe a normally functional brain was like- for me it was like living in a parallel universe.  I know you’ve been hanging out here long enough to appreciate ‘YMMV’ if you’ve read many posts about ADs. Its entirely possibly Zoloft may do nothing for you, or you might have any one or several side effects, or a different AD might finally turn out to be effective for you, or none- but ya gotta start somewhere.  I know that after some recent experience with St. John’s wort, I’d go back to Zoloft in a flash if I could afford it.    I’m not sure what to do. I think it’s time to try this but I’m nervous.

Yup- I was nervous too, didn’t like the idea of taking something that was going to mess with my brain chemistry- but when I gave myself a chance to consider the alternative, which was sinking back into a suicidal place, unable to respond to talk therapy, it wasn’t really a hard choice for me.                Maybe I’m not really depressed. I’m not sick, am I? Disease? I don’t have any disease, I’m just kinda sad. Um, maybe I’m just tired or something. Maybe I should try meditating like my friend said.

Stop, stop- you’re making me grin & I’m s’posed to be depressed! Well, if you’re tired, try taking a nap- maybe you’ve tried that?  ;-) ; if you’re not really depressed (chemically), Zoloft most likely won’t have any effect on your mental state (unless it happens to be ineffective for you).  Unlikely that meditating would do any harm- for me it is calming, good for racing thoughts, confusion- but I’ve not noticed its made much of a dent in my depression.                                                                                                           See I’m worried that I’m making the "easy" move. That I’m giving up the fight.

I wonder about this with myself too.  But if you stay in therapy, commit yourself to keep working- & it seems that your therp should track how you’re doing.  I have noticed that some ppl experience an emotional "flatness"/ difficulty in accessing their feelings that could be a hindrance.  Or the meds could work great for you, so you just maintain on the meds & decide to loaf in or quit therapy- been there- eventually it caught up to me again.  I just think you have to keep those possibilities in mind & consult w/ your therp. And what about side effects? Am I asking for more trouble than I’ve already got? And is Zoloft the right one? You guys say it makes you sleepy. She said the good thing about it is that it doesn’t make you sleepy. (I know everyone’s different) Accckkkkkkk!    The truth is I do want to try this. I think it can work. I think that if it does work I might have the strength to fight back and put my life where I’d like it to be. I think that if I battle the biological agents of this disease I can learn to live with the psychology of  my world.

Exactly- that was my experience with meds and therapy                     (Of course I worry that I’m setting myself up for a fall.) I am kind of excited, because I feel like maybe I’m starting to help myself. Are the side effects really that bad? Does it matter if it beats back the depression?

Keep in mind when you read posts about side effects here or in Dejanews that ppl who experience the downside are much more motivated to write about that experience than those who have  a relatively easy experience (I’ve never written a post "WOW! Zoloft’s free of side effects!")  IOW, the sample is hopelessly skewed-  not to say that any one persons experience isn’t valid _for them_- or any 5 ppls experience. I think that as with so much in life- you just have to experience it- theory and other ppl’s words are no match for your doing it.  Chances are the right med (not necessarily Zoloft) is going to be a help.  If it doesn’t help, yeah, it could be disappointing.  Its a risk, but no way a foolish one.  Hope it works for you  :-) Take care,             FanMan You shall be free indeed when your days   are not without a care nor your nights without a want and a grief, But rather when these things girdle your life and yet you rise above them naked and unbound.  -K. Gibran

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Ok, so I finally got my Phych. appointment. We talked for a while and she ultimately reccomended that I give meds a shot. My therp also reccomends. She wants to go with Zoloft. She thinks that it has the least interactions and she’s had the most success with it. So she gave me the prescription.         I’m not sure what to do. I think it’s time to try this but I’m nervous. Maybe I’m not really depressed. I’m not sick, am I? Disease? I don’t have any disease, I’m just kinda sad. Um, maybe I’m just tired or something. Maybe I should try meditating like my friend said. See I’m worried that I’m making the "easy" move. That I’m giving up the fight. And what about side effects? Am I asking for more trouble than I’ve already got? And is Zoloft the right one? You guys say it makes you sleepy. She said the good thing about it is that it doesn’t make you sleepy. (I know everyone’s different) Accckkkkkkk!         The truth is I do want to try this. I think it can work. I think that if it does work I might have the strength to fight back and put my life where I’d like it to be. I think that if I battle the biological agents of this disease I can learn to live with the psychology of  my world. (Of course I worry that I’m setting myself up for a fall.) I am kind of excited, because I feel like maybe I’m starting to help myself. Are the side effects really that bad? Does it matter if it beats back the depression? I’d really like to here from some of you on this. You’ve been there. I’m going. And I’m scared.                         Thanks,                                         Jeff (who will be checking e-mail & asd in like                                       4 minutes for responses)                                         (and who probably expects too much) "I don’t know where I’m going, but I’m on my way"-carl sandberg

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Question:

Im looking for any information regarding results people have found using Manerix or other antidepressants for treating Panic

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Im looking for any information regarding results people have found using Manerix or other antidepressants for treating Panic

Manerix is one of the so-called "reversible" MAOI antidepressants. The main advantage it seems to have over traditional MAOIs (Nardil and Parnate) is that it doesn’t impose the hefty food restrictions they do. Against that, it seems to have picked up a reputation for not being very wonderful against PD, though *some* have reported successes with it so it might be worth a try. I was on it for a few months. They were the most expensive M&Ms I’ve ever bought — Gary Cooper

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Marks) writes: Org.  : York University Im looking for any information regarding results people have found using Manerix or other antidepressants for treating Panic

Dear Brad (?), Hello, and welcome to ASAP! Depending on what you want the info for, you may have to be a little more specific… I monitor this group fairly regularly, and would hazard a conservative guess that at least 50% of us are on some sort of antidepressant. Some are on the older types (e.g., imiprimine, etc.) while many others are on the newer SSRI’s (Prozac, Zoloft, Effexor, etc.) Some take an antidepressant alone, others take a combination of antidepressant plus a benzodiazapine …again, the benzos seem to range from good ol’ Valium to newer things like Xanax (alprazolam) or Rivotril (called Klonopin in the U.S., available here in Canada as generic "clonazapam".) Still others take only the benzo with no antidepressant. In this, as in so many areas of life, the watchword is YMMV (your mileage may vary.) For example, I take .5 mg Rivotril (clonazapam) and 10 mg imiprimine once a day, at bedtime, which seems to keep my panic attacks at bay. My doc has suggested a switch to Zoloft and gradually dropping the Rivotril, but I’m foot-dragging… partly due to fear of change (and possibly having to experience a flood of panic attacks) and partly due to the increased $$ I will have to spend on meds if I decide to switch. Hope this helps, Jane. —

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Question:

Cyndie  I’ve had PAs that last about a second and can leave me shattered for hours afterwards. The last time it happened it was a sudden escalation of fear caused by rapid thought connections. Something made me think of death and life. How this is the life bit, and the other was the death bit. The result – sudden terror and then nothing except – what the fuck was that? I have no idea why I became so frightened. It happened once when looking in the mirror. All of a sudden I couldn’t decide which was me – the looker or the reflection. They sound a bit like bad trips or temporal lobe seizures rather than PAs. On the other hand I’ve had PAs that last for days, almost seemlessly. Fred

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This is going to sound weird, but this hasnt happened to me before and I would like to know what you think about it.  Today while I was working on a project with the Col. (no not KFC <g)  I noticed a flash of a PA.  It was so weird!  It was like it lasted a second!  It wasnt like a head rush, more like an extremely fast PA! I didnt get upset and nothing else happened, but thought about it off and on cause it was so weird.  I was wondering if it might have been a PA trying to come on but stopped short? I know this sounds weird, but it felt weird too!  I have been on 20mg ever other day of Prozac for a week and a half? and started lowering my dose of Xanax by .5mg a day about a week ago.  Maybe rebound from withdrawel?  I also noticed that in the past few nights I see weird monsters and images (in my mind, not hallucinating) right as I am about to fall asleep and I wake with a start.  I remember having that problem before, when this first started for me 7 years ago.  When I awake I dont have a PA, I just keep trying to go back to sleep, it happens a few times, then I am out like a light until morning.  Does anyone else have these problems? Cyndie

Hi Cyndie: Those PA flashes could very well mean that the Prozac is starting to take effect.  It somehow seems to cut them off before they get going.  Just a guess though, based on my own experience. Also, again just a thought, I would have thought that the rate you’re reducing the Xanax is a little too fast and too soon.  Just my own personal experience and what I’ve read talking here……but usually you stay on your regular doseage of Xanax for the first week or so at least and then, very slowly and minimally, taper down over a period of months.  You might want to check this out with your doctor. Take care. Mally  

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<snipped I have been on 20mg ever other day of Prozac for a week and a half? and started lowering my dose of Xanax by .5mg a day about a week ago.

Maybe rebound from withdrawel?  I also noticed that in the past few nights I see weird monsters and images (in my mind, not hallucinating) right as I am about to fall asleep and I wake with a start.  I remember having that problem before, when this first started for me 7 years ago. When I awake I dont have a PA, I just keep trying to go back to sleep, it happens a few times, then I am out like a  light until morning.  Does anyone else have these problems? Cyndie

Dear Cyndie, Although I’m sorry that you’re having this problem with sleeping, I have to tell you that I am relieved to know that you share this problem with me.  I having had these sorts of images while trying to get to sleep all of my life.  It’s one of the reasons I know that I’ve been having panic attacks for so long.  I think the images are just a way for my mind to cope with the nocturnal PA’s.  When you wake up scared to death, your mind might be inserting a "reason" for your fears.  I’ve often tried to describe these images as little mini-dreams because they’re not hallucinations, although I’m not sure if I’m entirely asleep when it happens.  Anyway, these are just a few theories I have about them.  When you describe waking "with a start," you might actually be describing a panic attack.  My nocturnal PA’s are much different from my daytime PA’s.  It’s something I’ve realized recently. The good news is that when I was on Zoloft (similar to Prozac) these images went away.  In fact, although insomnia is a possible side-effect of Zoloft, my horrible insomnia went away.  I think my insomnia is caused by these nocturnal attacks as well as depression, and the Zoloft helped with both.  And, I wasn’t using Xanax or any other benzodiazepine at the time.  It DID take a few weeks, though: about 6 weeks after I built up to the full dosage for me. Because of that length of time, you might want to consider tapering off the Xanax more slowly.  I realize that this is up to you and your doctor, but going off a benzodiazepine too quickly can be uncomfortable. It does NOT mean that you are addicted.  In his book "Panic Disorder: The Medical Point of View," William D. Kernodle states that everyone will have a different experience when going off a benzodiazepine and that you should go as SLOWLY as you need to.  By the way, I highly recommend this book (1995 edition), if you want some sensible, professional answers to your questions about anxiety medications.  I have been fearful of medication in the past, and this book has explained a lot to me. You’re not alone in these particular experiences, Cyndie, and I want to thank you so much for letting me know that I’m not alone.   Take care, Cathleen P.S.: The reason I stopped the Zoloft had nothing to do with its effectiveness but rather with my financial situation at that time (and my ignorance–and my psychiatrist’s–of financial aid for these sorts of things).

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: This is going to sound weird, but this hasnt happened to me before and I : would like to know what you think about it.  Today while I was working on : a project with the Col. (no not KFC <g)  I noticed a flash of a PA.  It : was so weird!  It was like it lasted a second!  … Wow, that is wierd. The fastest PA I’ve ever had lasted 5 minutes. But then, 5 min is quick compared to the 45 min endurance terror PAs. Perhaps its a good sign?                                         Best Wishes,                                         Arthur

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -This is going to sound weird, but this hasnt happened to me before and I would like to know what you think about it.  Today while I was working on a project with the Col. (no not KFC <g)  I noticed a flash of a PA.  It was so weird!  It was like it lasted a second!  It wasnt like a head rush, more like an extremely fast PA! I didnt get upset and nothing else happened, but thought about it off and on cause it was so weird.  I was wondering if it might have been a PA trying to come on but stopped short? I know this sounds weird, but it felt weird too!  I have been on 20mg ever other day of Prozac for a week and a half? and started lowering my dose of Xanax by .5mg a day about a week ago.  Maybe rebound from withdrawel?  I also noticed that in the past few nights I see weird monsters and images (in my mind, not hallucinating) right as I am about to fall asleep and I wake with a start.  I remember having that problem before, when this first started for me 7 years ago.  When I awake I dont have a PA, I just keep trying to go back to sleep, it happens a few times, then I am out like a light until morning.  Does anyone else have these problems? Cyndie

Cyndie, Happens to me all the time…like 10-20 times a day.  They last 1-2 sec’s and don’t really bother me at all…in fact i kind of laugh at them.   -Scott

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This is going to sound weird, but this hasnt happened to me before and I would like to know what you think about it.  Today while I was working on a project with the Col. (no not KFC <g)  I noticed a flash of a PA.  It was so weird!  It was like it lasted a second!  It wasnt like a head rush, more like an extremely fast PA! I didnt get upset and nothing else happened, but thought about it off and on cause it was so weird.  I was wondering if it might have been a PA trying to come on but stopped short? I know this sounds weird, but it felt weird too!  I have been on 20mg ever other day of Prozac for a week and a half? and started lowering my dose of Xanax by .5mg a day about a week ago.  Maybe rebound from withdrawel?  I also noticed that in the past few nights I see weird monsters and images (in my mind, not hallucinating) right as I am about to fall asleep and I wake with a start.  I remember having that problem before, when this first started for me 7 years ago.  When I awake I dont have a PA, I just keep trying to go back to sleep, it happens a few times, then I am out like a light until morning.  Does anyone else have these problems? Cyndie

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