Question:

Smarting eyes sounds more like allergic conjunctivitis, especially if you have allergies like nasal congestion. Cataracts involve a yellowing of the lens over a long period of time using high dose inhaled or nasal steroids, or oral steroids, causing a loss in vision. Links: http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/flovent.htm Flovent http://www.rxlist.com/scripts/patient/piumore.pl?mononum=487&order=1&… http://www.rxmed.com/monographs/flovent.html Ellis – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve been using Flovet 110 for the past 5 months and had not noticed any "side effects" until about a week ago.  Then, my eyes started smarting extensively.  Is this a symptom of what you are discussing?  (Sorry, too new to asthma & the treatments.)  Al I have been using flovent 220 since it became available in the US.  It has helped my asthma considerably, however, I too am experiencing changes in my vision.  I had my eyes examined a couple of weeks ago by an opthemalogist, he mentioned that he was finding steroidal changes in my eyes, but was not alarmed.  My lenses were changed, but I haven’t really noticed any improvement in my focusing difficulties.  What next?  It seems that my goal of having my asthma under control, is always just beyond my reach.  If I get the asthma under control, something else takes off, this time it’s my vision! Cataracts are a potential side effect of high dose inhaled steroids, like Flovent 220. Side effects are dose dependent so always use the smallest dose to control the asthma. Also be sure to use a spacer, like an AeroChamber, with the MDI steroid inhaler; and rinse and spit out after inhaling This can reduce side effects by al least a factor of 2. Ellis

Response:

I’ve been using Flovet 110 for the past 5 months and had not noticed any "side effects" until about a week ago.  Then, my eyes started smarting extensively.  Is this a symptom of what you are discussing?  (Sorry, too new to asthma & the treatments.)  Al – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have been using flovent 220 since it became available in the US.  It has helped my asthma considerably, however, I too am experiencing changes in my vision.  I had my eyes examined a couple of weeks ago by an opthemalogist, he mentioned that he was finding steroidal changes in my eyes, but was not alarmed.  My lenses were changed, but I haven’t really noticed any improvement in my focusing difficulties.  What next?  It seems that my goal of having my asthma under control, is always just beyond my reach.  If I get the asthma under control, something else takes off, this time it’s my vision! Cataracts are a potential side effect of high dose inhaled steroids, like Flovent 220. Side effects are dose dependent so always use the smallest dose to control the asthma. Also be sure to use a spacer, like an AeroChamber, with the MDI steroid inhaler; and rinse and spit out after inhaling This can reduce side effects by al least a factor of 2. Ellis

Response:

I have been using flovent 220 since it became available in the US.  It has helped my asthma considerably, however, I too am experiencing changes in my vision.  I had my eyes examined a couple of weeks ago by an opthemalogist, he mentioned that he was finding steroidal changes in my eyes, but was not alarmed.  My lenses were changed, but I haven’t really noticed any improvement in my focusing difficulties.  What next?  It seems that my goal of having my asthma under control, is always just beyond my reach.  If I get the asthma under control, something else takes off, this time it’s my vision!

Response:

I have been using flovent 220 since it became available in the US.  It has helped my asthma considerably, however, I too am experiencing changes in my vision.  I had my eyes examined a couple of weeks ago by an opthemalogist, he mentioned that he was finding steroidal changes in my eyes, but was not alarmed.  My lenses were changed, but I haven’t really noticed any improvement in my focusing difficulties.  What next?  It seems that my goal of having my asthma under control, is always just beyond my reach.  If I get the asthma under control, something else takes off, this time it’s my vision!

Cataracts are a potential side effect of high dose inhaled steroids, like Flovent 220. Side effects are dose dependent so always use the smallest dose to control the asthma. Also be sure to use a spacer, like an AeroChamber, with the MDI steroid inhaler; and rinse and spit out after inhaling This can reduce side effects by al least a factor of 2. Ellis

Response:

Question:

Let’s see; the OP said specifically that the onset of the increased symptoms was directly related to irrigation..

One can’t tell reliably what is related to what just by sequence of occurrences.   Better to look for underlying factors to avoid mixing up triggers with causes. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

. Odd that his thyroid would slow to a crawl each time he irrigated, eh?  :-)

Response:

So you’re saying that irrigation is the trigger of a metabolic slowdown?

No I am not.

Response:

On 12/5/05 1:23 PM, in article 1133817823.808457.32…@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com, "dougred…@gmail.com" <dougred…@gmail.com

wrote: I am not using bottled water, just a PUR filter on my faucet.  Should I use distilled water with the Breathe Ease XL?

Unless your tap water is especially bad,regular PUR filter or any bottled water is OK with Breathe.ease XL

Response:

On 12/5/05 2:03 PM, in article d0e9p15e7ofpv4tf2ge3smtfv4p4umc…@4ax.com, – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -"Don Brady" <dbr…@pobox.com

wrote: On 5 Dec 2005 13:21:29 -0800, dougred…@gmail.com wrote: Don Brady wrote: Really! Hmm I wonder if there could possibly be a metabolic or immune status issue then. This is entirely possible; I am actually a hypopituitary patient.  My endocrinologist Dr. Te Friedman is actually at Cedars Sinaii where Dr. Grossan is.  I’ve been planning to make an appointment with Dr. Grossan the next time I see Dr. Friedman. In a nutshell – Dr. Friedman is about as thorough an endocrinologist as can be found anywhere, and he’s gotten all of my hormones into the mid to high normal range that were low (which was most of them). Do you know what your TSH (thyroid) numeric value is?  It is a blood test. If possible, the numeric value is desirable rather than a conclusion as refernce ranges vary and are being revised. I don’t recall TSH or T3, T4 measurements but at the time I was on 88mcg of T4 which Dr. Friedman raised to 125mcg, and based on a later test, back down to 117mcg. Also I would check fasting B12 level and white blood cell morphology. I can’t answer either of these at the moment, although I do take B12 supplements. Are you tired all the time? Yes indeed.  I am not sure if this is due to some yet to be found hormonal issue related to my pituitary (head trauma is what caused the damage) or if this is sleep related.  I suspect sleep, as there HAVE been times when I have slept well and noticed a definite improvement. But, it appears to be dependent on both possible nocturnal asthma being under control, AND clear nasal breathing.  Nasal CPAP was worthless as I had predicted considering how closed off my nasal passages are.  You can’t force air through pinholes. I have a CPAP machine and I’m considering trying it with an OPAP (oral) mask as it seems at the moment at least, mouth breathing at night is my best and possibly only option. Ok that is what I suspected – there are some underlying metabolic/hormonal factiors here.   You are right on top of them though. Lack of sleep also will cause inflammation through the body, so it could be that alone. I  think that it is among those factors that the cause of your sinusitis lies…..

One of the important findings re sleep apnea is the need to take antioxidant vitamin supplements due to the accumulation of oxidative products during the apneic periods.

Response:

I should note as well that between my nose and lower airways, I get sleep apnea as a result.  When I use Advair and the Afrin / Singulair / Claritin nasal spray before bed, I sleep better than I have ever slept.  If I only use Advair and no nasal spray I still have restless sleep and visa versa.

Response:

On 1 Dec 2005 16:52:44 -0800, dougred…@gmail.com wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Here is my history: – Allergy shots for several years – Septoplasty & turbinectomy 3 years ago – Using oral claritin and singulair before bed – tried all the various nasal sprays to no avail – tried irrigation both isotonic and hypertonic and it didn’t help much – allergist had me try Afrin a few times just to see what would happen. It did almost nothing. After reading this board for awhile I tried concocting my own spray. First I tried saline + Singulair + Benedryl and this spray seemed to work a bit, but was still disappointing Next, I tried 1/2 oz Afrin, mixed with 30mg crushed Singulair and 3 crushed Claritin tablets.  This actually works pretty well. Next, I’m going to try saline (Breathe Ease) 1/2 ounce + 3 crushed Singulair tabs and 3 crushed Claritin tabs to see if it will have the same effect WITHOUT the Afrin. My question is: 1) am I using too much of the Claritin or Singulair and 2) could I mix these with a cortisone spray instead? Also, I believe the spray I tried mixing in Benadryl, I used too little Benadryl.  I wonder if I should try Benadryl instead of Claritin at a higher dose? I only use the Afrin combination once a day, before bed.  This helps my sleep a LOT.  I clearly have a real problem breathing through the nose and also some twitchy lower airways (and possible nocturnal asthma) and I’m hoping to come up with a spray combination that I can use several times per day without worrying about resistance or making the problem worse.  I’m thinking: 1) Use a corisone + Singulair + Claritin spray 2) Start hypertonic irrigation again with Breathe EaseXL twice per day 3) Hopefully, combining #1 and #2 will keep my nose clear. 4) Continue allergy shots and hope that eventually, they cure my nose ailments. All comments welcome.

Afrin is often (always?) addictive if used for over a few days so it is not recommended to  use it continually. Some of the others are antihistamines.  They can be ok but can tend to dry out your sinuses too much which can limit the drainage needed to keep them clear. Yes this stops the irritating drainage onto the turbinates but may have its own price long term.  I would get a CT scan to make sure that sinusitis is not the underlying problem (if not done already) and that you would not make it worse by preventing drainage with too much drying. The steroid spray has few problems. I’d bet you are allergic or sensitive to dust or mold in your work or home and that if you could totally clear that up (very hard to do), that might eliminate the need for all of these medicines. Meanwhile  and get whatever medication combo you are taking signed off on by your allergist.  As long as you do the latter, then you are a lot safer than totally winging it on your own…

Response:

On 12/1/05 7:30 PM, in article 7uevo1tgdobbcic79n1eo220jqvevb9…@4ax.com, – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -"Don Brady" <dbr…@pobox.com

wrote: On 1 Dec 2005 16:52:44 -0800, dougred…@gmail.com wrote: Here is my history: – Allergy shots for several years – Septoplasty & turbinectomy 3 years ago – Using oral claritin and singulair before bed – tried all the various nasal sprays to no avail – tried irrigation both isotonic and hypertonic and it didn’t help much – allergist had me try Afrin a few times just to see what would happen. It did almost nothing. After reading this board for awhile I tried concocting my own spray. First I tried saline + Singulair + Benedryl and this spray seemed to work a bit, but was still disappointing Next, I tried 1/2 oz Afrin, mixed with 30mg crushed Singulair and 3 crushed Claritin tablets.  This actually works pretty well. Next, I’m going to try saline (Breathe Ease) 1/2 ounce + 3 crushed Singulair tabs and 3 crushed Claritin tabs to see if it will have the same effect WITHOUT the Afrin. My question is: 1) am I using too much of the Claritin or Singulair and 2) could I mix these with a cortisone spray instead? Also, I believe the spray I tried mixing in Benadryl, I used too little Benadryl.  I wonder if I should try Benadryl instead of Claritin at a higher dose? I only use the Afrin combination once a day, before bed.  This helps my sleep a LOT.  I clearly have a real problem breathing through the nose and also some twitchy lower airways (and possible nocturnal asthma) and I’m hoping to come up with a spray combination that I can use several times per day without worrying about resistance or making the problem worse.  I’m thinking: 1) Use a corisone + Singulair + Claritin spray 2) Start hypertonic irrigation again with Breathe EaseXL twice per day 3) Hopefully, combining #1 and #2 will keep my nose clear. 4) Continue allergy shots and hope that eventually, they cure my nose ailments. All comments welcome. Afrin is often (always?) addictive if used for over a few days so it is not recommended to  use it continually. Some of the others are antihistamines.  They can be ok but can tend to dry out your sinuses too much which can limit the drainage needed to keep them clear. Yes this stops the irritating drainage onto the turbinates but may have its own price long term.  I would get a CT scan to make sure that sinusitis is not the underlying problem (if not done already) and that you would not make it worse by preventing drainage with too much drying. The steroid spray has few problems. I’d bet you are allergic or sensitive to dust or mold in your work or home and that if you could totally clear that up (very hard to do), that might eliminate the need for all of these medicines. Meanwhile  and get whatever medication combo you are taking signed off on by your allergist.  As long as you do the latter, then you are a lot safer than totally winging it on your own…

Your are out there all alone, no one can guide you because no one has studied this. Merck spoke of a singular nasal spray some years ago but … I don’t know what the solubility of these products are. In theory you can open the benadryl capsule and use that. The coating of the claritin is a problem. Let us know how your experiment works out. If it does, get a patent.

Response:

Here is my history: – Allergy shots for several years – Septoplasty & turbinectomy 3 years ago – Using oral claritin and singulair before bed – tried all the various nasal sprays to no avail – tried irrigation both isotonic and hypertonic and it didn’t help much – allergist had me try Afrin a few times just to see what would happen.  It did almost nothing. After reading this board for awhile I tried concocting my own spray. First I tried saline + Singulair + Benedryl and this spray seemed to work a bit, but was still disappointing Next, I tried 1/2 oz Afrin, mixed with 30mg crushed Singulair and 3 crushed Claritin tablets.  This actually works pretty well. Next, I’m going to try saline (Breathe Ease) 1/2 ounce + 3 crushed Singulair tabs and 3 crushed Claritin tabs to see if it will have the same effect WITHOUT the Afrin. My question is: 1) am I using too much of the Claritin or Singulair and 2) could I mix these with a cortisone spray instead? Also, I believe the spray I tried mixing in Benadryl, I used too little Benadryl.  I wonder if I should try Benadryl instead of Claritin at a higher dose? I only use the Afrin combination once a day, before bed.  This helps my sleep a LOT.  I clearly have a real problem breathing through the nose and also some twitchy lower airways (and possible nocturnal asthma) and I’m hoping to come up with a spray combination that I can use several times per day without worrying about resistance or making the problem worse.  I’m thinking: 1) Use a corisone + Singulair + Claritin spray 2) Start hypertonic irrigation again with Breathe EaseXL twice per day 3) Hopefully, combining #1 and #2 will keep my nose clear. 4) Continue allergy shots and hope that eventually, they cure my nose ailments. All comments welcome. Doug

Response:

On 12/5/05 11:52 AM, in article 4569p19iud5l544s8bc1ju1hlpbv5cv…@4ax.com, – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -"Don Brady" <dbr…@pobox.com

wrote: On 5 Dec 2005 11:39:13 -0800, dougred…@gmail.com wrote: Don and Susan, thank you for your comments about Afrin. I have found unfortunately that my nose becomes "addicted" to Afrin even using it only once per day, before bed.  However, it is my understanding that it is a preservative in Afrin that causes this and not the actual active ingredient??? Why on EARTH would they not change their formula if that is the case, or why wouldn’t a competitor release a generic with a preservative that does not have this problem?? Actually I think it is the active ingredient but I am sure that others will claify. As far as cleaning up my area goes, before having to move for work reasons I had a brand new house built with all hardwood flooring, and the best Consumer Reports whole-house Aprilaire air purifier.  I also had top of the line HEPA room units in my bedroom and my office.  All pillows / bedding allergen proofed.  There literally was NOWHERE for any allergen to be in those rooms.  They may have well have been Intel cleanrooms.  This didn’t help, either Really!   Hmm I wonder if there could possibly be a metabolic or immune status issue then. Do you know what your TSH (thyroid) numeric value is?  It is a blood test. If possible, the numeric value is desirable rather than a conclusion as refernce ranges vary and are being revised. Also I would check fasting B12 level and white blood cell morphology. Are you tired all the time? Are you on any kind of fad diet or do you have major digestive problems?

one way to break the afrin addicition is to dilute the afrin with saline 1/2 and 1/2 each week.

Response:

On 5 Dec 2005 19:01:27 -0800, dougred…@gmail.com wrote:

Don Brady wrote: Ok that is what I suspected – there are some underlying metabolic/hormonal factiors here.   You are right on top of them though. Lack of sleep also will cause inflammation through the body, so it could be that alone. I  think that it is among those factors that the cause of your sinusitis lies….. Unfortunately if that is the case I don’t know what can be done, as all of my hormone levels are now at least midrange and in most cases towards high normal.

If it was only recently then it will take time for all layers of the skin etc. to fully recover. But the sleep angle is the other one I referred to.

Response:

Don Brady wrote:

Ok that is what I suspected – there are some underlying metabolic/hormonal factiors here.   You are right on top of them though. Lack of sleep also will cause inflammation through the body, so it could be that alone. I  think that it is among those factors that the cause of your sinusitis lies…..

Unfortunately if that is the case I don’t know what can be done, as all of my hormone levels are now at least midrange and in most cases towards high normal.

Response:

I just nuke the filtered tap water to kill any microbes that might be present.  Your experience sounds like irrigating is making your sinuses worse (I don’t think you’re withdrawing from antigens) and it made me wonder if you were shooting pathogens up your nose. It sounds as if that’s a strong possibility.

How much time is required to ensure that all microbes are killed? I assume just bring the water to a boil and let it cool?

Response:

It appears he’s irrigating with unsterile water.  That one’s a lot more obvious and easy to fix.

As I said, I do not agee that it is more obvious.  I happen to think it is extremely unlikely that mere unsterile water matters much.   Lots of people go swimming every day.  

I’m interested in your metabolism theory; do you have cites or some material that indicates this may be the case?  Also, what do you mean by slow?  Are you referring to thyroid status, insulin resistance, or something else?

The most common cause of slow metabolism is low thyroid (which is extremely common!. Here’s one reference: http://health.yahoo.com/centers/allergy/154 "Non-allergic rhinitis may also be triggered by pregnancy, thyroid problems, stress or by certain medications. These triggers of non-allergic rhinitis do not cause your body’s immune system to react. Thus they are not an allergen. But they may still irritate your mucous membranes, causing inflammation and your rhinitis symptoms." Really it is no surprise – low thyroid has effects throughout the body and on the skin.  How could it not have the potential to affect the linings of the sinuses and nose also? These matters are covered in any book on endocrinology. As to sleep, it  also profoundly affects natural cortisol levels.  Inflammation throughout the body will result from lack of enough sleep.   The worst thing is that if this is the case in an individual, the sinuses are just one marker. Elevated inflammation will increase the risk of heart disease also amd many other diseases. This is covered in many recent articles on sleep. My sinuses are now getting back close to what they were right after surgery (very good) just by getting *lots* more sleep. In me, sleep is *far* more signficant than streroid sprays.   My thyroid is also bodferline low (TSH is borderline high) but in me it is part;y caused by low caloric intake, which is not too hard to remedy…..

Response:

I am not using bottled water, just a PUR filter on my faucet.  Should I use distilled water with the Breathe Ease XL?

Response:

On 5 Dec 2005 13:21:29 -0800, dougred…@gmail.com wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Don Brady wrote: Really! Hmm I wonder if there could possibly be a metabolic or immune status issue then. This is entirely possible; I am actually a hypopituitary patient.  My endocrinologist Dr. Te Friedman is actually at Cedars Sinaii where Dr. Grossan is.  I’ve been planning to make an appointment with Dr. Grossan the next time I see Dr. Friedman. In a nutshell – Dr. Friedman is about as thorough an endocrinologist as can be found anywhere, and he’s gotten all of my hormones into the mid to high normal range that were low (which was most of them). Do you know what your TSH (thyroid) numeric value is?  It is a blood test. If possible, the numeric value is desirable rather than a conclusion as refernce ranges vary and are being revised. I don’t recall TSH or T3, T4 measurements but at the time I was on 88mcg of T4 which Dr. Friedman raised to 125mcg, and based on a later test, back down to 117mcg. Also I would check fasting B12 level and white blood cell morphology. I can’t answer either of these at the moment, although I do take B12 supplements. Are you tired all the time? Yes indeed.  I am not sure if this is due to some yet to be found hormonal issue related to my pituitary (head trauma is what caused the damage) or if this is sleep related.  I suspect sleep, as there HAVE been times when I have slept well and noticed a definite improvement. But, it appears to be dependent on both possible nocturnal asthma being under control, AND clear nasal breathing.  Nasal CPAP was worthless as I had predicted considering how closed off my nasal passages are.  You can’t force air through pinholes. I have a CPAP machine and I’m considering trying it with an OPAP (oral) mask as it seems at the moment at least, mouth breathing at night is my best and possibly only option.

Ok that is what I suspected – there are some underlying metabolic/hormonal factiors here.   You are right on top of them though. Lack of sleep also will cause inflammation through the body, so it could be that alone. I  think that it is among those factors that the cause of your sinusitis lies…..

Response:

On Mon, 05 Dec 2005 15:06:26 -0500, Susan <neverm…@nomail.com

wrote: More horse than zebralike, I wonder if the irrigation solution is sterile?

Fair enough question but I actually think that slow metabolism is a major factor in soem forms of sinsusitis. View may differ on which is the horse and which is the zebra….

Response:

Don Brady wrote:

Really! Hmm I wonder if there could possibly be a metabolic or immune status issue then.

This is entirely possible; I am actually a hypopituitary patient.  My endocrinologist Dr. Te Friedman is actually at Cedars Sinaii where Dr. Grossan is.  I’ve been planning to make an appointment with Dr. Grossan the next time I see Dr. Friedman. In a nutshell – Dr. Friedman is about as thorough an endocrinologist as can be found anywhere, and he’s gotten all of my hormones into the mid to high normal range that were low (which was most of them).

Do you know what your TSH (thyroid) numeric value is?  It is a blood test. If possible, the numeric value is desirable rather than a conclusion as refernce ranges vary and are being revised.

I don’t recall TSH or T3, T4 measurements but at the time I was on 88mcg of T4 which Dr. Friedman raised to 125mcg, and based on a later test, back down to 117mcg.

Also I would check fasting B12 level and white blood cell morphology.

I can’t answer either of these at the moment, although I do take B12 supplements.

Are you tired all the time?

Yes indeed.  I am not sure if this is due to some yet to be found hormonal issue related to my pituitary (head trauma is what caused the damage) or if this is sleep related.  I suspect sleep, as there HAVE been times when I have slept well and noticed a definite improvement. But, it appears to be dependent on both possible nocturnal asthma being under control, AND clear nasal breathing.  Nasal CPAP was worthless as I had predicted considering how closed off my nasal passages are.  You can’t force air through pinholes. I have a CPAP machine and I’m considering trying it with an OPAP (oral) mask as it seems at the moment at least, mouth breathing at night is my best and possibly only option.

Are you on any kind of fad diet or do you have major digestive problems?

No fad diets.  I don’t believe in them.  No digestive problems that I am aware of aside from excess stomach acid and this can be eliminated by dietary adjustments.  But, I LOVE hot / spicy foods unfortunately lol. Thank you for the help. Doug

Response:

Don and Susan, thank you for your comments about Afrin. I have found unfortunately that my nose becomes "addicted" to Afrin even using it only once per day, before bed.  However, it is my understanding that it is a preservative in Afrin that causes this and not the actual active ingredient??? Why on EARTH would they not change their formula if that is the case, or why wouldn’t a competitor release a generic with a preservative that does not have this problem?? As far as cleaning up my area goes, before having to move for work reasons I had a brand new house built with all hardwood flooring, and the best Consumer Reports whole-house Aprilaire air purifier.  I also had top of the line HEPA room units in my bedroom and my office.  All pillows / bedding allergen proofed.  There literally was NOWHERE for any allergen to be in those rooms.  They may have well have been Intel cleanrooms.  This didn’t help, either.  My allergist referred me to an ENT and I had a CT which showed no infection but I did have oversized turbinates, and one turbinate had a cyst / nodule or something on it. I had at turbinectomy and that didn’t help, either. Dr. Grossan, I’m actually not using Claritin, I am using Costco generic and this does not appear to have any sort of coating on it.  Since Afrin was starting to give me rebound problems I quit using it and started using Singulair + Claritin in saline.  It seemed to help a bit, but not NEARLY as much.  Not enough help to even bother so I quit using spray entirely.  My nose has completely recovered from the Afrin as I didn’t use it very long. However, I HAVE continued to use my Hydropulse 2X per day, hypertonic. This time around, it seems to be having a positive effect and it’s only been a few days now.  I am using Breathe Ease XL this time, whereas last time I was just using regular salt and baking soda.  Since irrigating however, (and this happened last time as well) I have felt TERRIBLE – I would liken it to the "withdrawal" one may feel when going on a diet that restricts a lot of foods they previously ate.  Really foggy head, very tired, can definitely feel it in my sinuses and eyes. I am guessing that this is my body reacting to the abscencse (or greatly reduced level) of offending allergens in my nasal passages and hence the "withdrawal" feeling? I am hoping that what will happen if I continue to irrigate is, this will go away and I will feel better than before.  How common are these symptoms and any idea how long this process can take?

Response:

On 5 Dec 2005 11:39:13 -0800, dougred…@gmail.com wrote:

Don and Susan, thank you for your comments about Afrin. I have found unfortunately that my nose becomes "addicted" to Afrin even using it only once per day, before bed.  However, it is my understanding that it is a preservative in Afrin that causes this and not the actual active ingredient??? Why on EARTH would they not change their formula if that is the case, or why wouldn’t a competitor release a generic with a preservative that does not have this problem??

Actually I think it is the active ingredient but I am sure that others will claify.

As far as cleaning up my area goes, before having to move for work reasons I had a brand new house built with all hardwood flooring, and the best Consumer Reports whole-house Aprilaire air purifier.  I also had top of the line HEPA room units in my bedroom and my office.  All pillows / bedding allergen proofed.  There literally was NOWHERE for any allergen to be in those rooms.  They may have well have been Intel cleanrooms.  This didn’t help, either

Really!   Hmm I wonder if there could possibly be a metabolic or immune status issue then. Do you know what your TSH (thyroid) numeric value is?  It is a blood test. If possible, the numeric value is desirable rather than a conclusion as refernce ranges vary and are being revised. Also I would check fasting B12 level and white blood cell morphology. Are you tired all the time? Are you on any kind of fad diet or do you have major digestive problems?

Response:

Question:

Just wondering if anyone has tried taking Singulair to treat allergy related sinus congestion.

Response:

I read that it was FDA approved for allergic rhinitis very recently. "Steven Balough" <sbalo…@mail.utexas.edu

wrote in message

news:avlc9n$2kp$1@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Just wondering if anyone has tried taking Singulair to treat allergy

related

sinus congestion.

Response:

Many allergists and ENTs have prescribed it for that for years, even without FDA approval for it ("off-label"). I’ve been prescribed it several times, for rhinitis. Recently I started taking it again. To tell the truth, I’m really not sure if it is helping me at all or not. (Sometimes it’s hard to know. You think–"I might be worse if I wasn’t taking this".) Anyone here noticed definitive results from it? Are there any published controlled double-blind studies on using it for rhinitis? (I guess there would have to be, if in fact the FDA has approved it for that purpose.) Anyone know where one can read the studies? Can’t regular Singulair use over years have negative effects on the liver? What if one takes both Singulair and acetaminophen regularly? "Joy" <n…@nospam.com

wrote in message

news:cy5U9.5794$Qr4.558783@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I read that it was FDA approved for allergic rhinitis very recently. > "Steven Balough" <sbalo…@mail.utexas.edu

wrote in message

> news:avlc9n$2kp$1@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu… > > Just wondering if anyone has tried taking Singulair to treat allergy > related > > sinus congestion.

Response:

Question:

I am a 23 year old who has had excercise induced asthma since I was 16.  Until I was 22, I was able to control my symptoms with Proventil. In the past year, I developed horrible asthma symptoms on a regular basis, not just from excercise.  While I have been able to control the symptoms with Pulmicort and Serevent during regular activity, I am still unable to excercise easily.  It take me weeks to build up the ability to jog on a treadmill for 10 minutes.  I have always been an active person and have become frustrated and angered by my inability to excercise.

Ask your doctor about FloVent.  I consider it a miracle drug since my asthma and COPD are slowly improving ever since I started taking it. If anyone has any suggestions on medications and/or other techniques that help them with their excercise induced asthma, please contact me by email at Monitoring you lung condition with a peak flow meter can let you know where you are at: an Action Plan can be used to adjust asthma drugs per peak flow readings. Before vigorous exercise you should be near the top of the Green Zone. Monitor the smog level and pollen levels (if allergic) and exercise when levels are low; usually in the morning or late evening. Breathe thru the nose to filter out irritatants and humidify the air (some wear a surgical mask). Warm up slowly. Links;

Try Tai Chi.  It is good exercise, promotes physical mobility and flexibility and once you get good at it, you will be surprised at the increase in fitness. http://www.physsportsmed.com/issues/jan_96/rupp.htm   Diagnosis and Management of Exercise-Induced Asthma, Jan 96 http://asthma.miningco.com/msub5.htm Sports and Exercise http://www.aaaai.org/public/publicedmat/tips/tip01.html EXERCISE-INDUCED ASTHM & BRONCHOSPASM (AAAAI) http://www.runnersworld.com/injuries/asthma.html ASTHMA, EXERCISE-INDUCED Ellis

Sue "It was said she held a grudge until it died of old age, and then had it stuff and mounted…"                         David Weber

Response:

Aha – Norm – I’m one step ahead of you again – I’ve set up my own interstellar spamming station – now even extraterrestrials will be prewarned about your spamtastic spuriosity!! You see Norm – once again buteyko fails in the face of scientific rigour and advancement. For those interested SETI – The Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence – have created a downloadable data-chunk screensaver that will allow you to http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/ Rich. (In addition there are reports of a distinct lack of intelligent life on planet Buteyko!!!!!!!)

Response:

Hi Richard I’m amused, I’m sure you can do better than that. I couldn’t find any reference to asthma in you posting at all. Norman – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Aha – Norm – I’m one step ahead of you again – I’ve set up my own interstellar spamming station – now even extraterrestrials will be prewarned about your spamtastic spuriosity!! You see Norm – once again buteyko fails in the face of scientific rigour and advancement. For those interested SETI – The Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence – have created a downloadable data-chunk screensaver that will allow you to http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/ Rich. (In addition there are reports of a distinct lack of intelligent life on planet Buteyko!!!!!!!)

Response:

Hi Richard – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Richard I’m amused, I’m sure you can do better than that. I couldn’t find any reference to asthma in you posting at all. Norman Ahhh Norm – your ignorance is once again apparent – ET asked for email replies – read her post – I am not interested in public displays and proliferation – just helping fellow asthmatics and sportspeople.

Yes I know, my mistake. I noticed that just after I’d posted it to the ng. So I sent a reply by email as well. Norman

Response:

Hi Richard I’m amused, I’m sure you can do better than that. I couldn’t find any reference to asthma in you posting at all. Norman

Ahhh Norm – your ignorance is once again apparent – ET asked for email replies – read her post – I am not interested in public displays and proliferation – just helping fellow asthmatics and sportspeople.

Response:

I would suggest you speak to your pulmonologist about one of the leukotriene inhibitors (ACCOLATE, ZYFLO or my preference SINGULAIR).  All of these have been beneficial to various degrees in exercise induced asthma. Scooby RCP, EMT-P

Response:

I am a 23 year old who has had excercise induced asthma since I was 16.  Until I was 22, I was able to control my symptoms with Proventil. In the past year, I developed horrible asthma symptoms on a regular basis, not just from excercise.  While I have been able to control the symptoms with Pulmicort and Serevent during regular activity, I am still unable to excercise easily.  It take me weeks to build up the ability to jog on a treadmill for 10 minutes.  I have always been an active person and have become frustrated and angered by my inability to excercise.   If anyone has any suggestions on medications and/or other techniques that help them with their excercise induced asthma, please contact me by email at

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am a 23 year old who has had exercise induced asthma since I was 16. Until I was 22, I was able to control my symptoms with Proventil. In the past year, I developed horrible asthma symptoms on a regular basis, not just from excercise. While I have been able to control the symptoms with Pulmicort and Serevent during regular activity, I am still unable to excercise easily.  It take me weeks to build up the ability to jog on a treadmill for 10 minutes.  I have always been an active person and have become frustrated and angered by my inability to excercise. If anyone has any suggestions on medications and/or other techniques that help them with their excercise induced asthma, please contact me by email at

Hi I’ve found the Buteyko breathing technique very useful when exercising, I now no longer need to use Ventolin before exercise. Give it a try. Buteyko is a breathing technique. But unlike many other breathing methods Buteyko’s aim is to breath less. Buteyko has improved my asthma, reduced my Ventolin to zero and my steroids by half. I would recommend all asthmatics to try it to see if it works for them. However a word of warning, some have felt so good after using it for a few months they have thrown their medication away. You should continue to carry your medication even though your asthma may be in remission. Buteyko is a great method to help reduce asthma – it is not a miracle cure. For a good introducing and more information on Buteyko try http://www.wt.com.au/~pkolb/buteyko.htm. It is best viewed by using the option to download the whole site and then read at leisure. There is quite a lot of it. See the ‘Get Started Now’ section, to get you started. It is completely free. But for both sides of the camp go to http://home.netscape.com/ and search for Buteyko using SNAP. This will give you other sites of interest including http://home.pacbell.net/colin/ which is Colin Campell’s rejection of the method (which I disagree with). Norman

Response:

Question:

Hi, need some quick advise, i took effexor last night, 37.5 mg. I woke up today, in a state of panic, and my pupils were BIG as a watermealon. Is this a normal side effect,and what could i take to counteract this? need advise geno

Response:

Hi, need some quick advise, i took effexor last night, 37.5 mg. I woke up today, in a state of panic, and my pupils were BIG as a watermealon. Is this a normal side effect,and what could i take to counteract this? need advise geno

If I were you, I would, for starters, abstain from anything that contains caffeine or even aspartame.

Response:

geno, big pupils is a normal side effect. no worries ) there’s not much you can do about it. ~*~nwysca~*~ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, need some quick advise, i took effexor last night, 37.5 mg. I woke up today, in a state of panic, and my pupils were BIG as a watermealon. Is this a normal side effect,and what could i take to counteract this? need advise geno If I were you, I would, for starters, abstain from anything that contains caffeine or even aspartame.

Response:

Question:

Candy, It could be the Celexa.  I am banking on the fact that it may be your routine being goofed up.  Most SSRI’s have the possibility of anxiety as a side affect.  You know I have had no problems, but thats just me. What dosage are you on? Chad Love is true when you can’t see eye to eye, but can still walk hand in hand.

Response:

:Hi I havent posted for a while but i have some questions. I have been on :the xanax for about 1 yr now for the second time around. I used to take anax and zoloft but the zoloft didnt do anything for me really. now i :am on the xanax again and i am taking celexa. I feel like i am ready to :go back on zoloft. With the celexa i feel a little jittery and i have :been having alot of anxiety which i think is strange because i am taking :my xanax regularly. does celexa cause or make anxiety heighten?

All the antidepressants may increase anxiety initially. However, this usually stops when they "kick-in," but that may take 3-8 weeks. You can reduce this side effect by starting on a low dose, usually 1/4 the smallest dose tablet (in this case 5mg) and upping the dose by 1/4 tablet every 7-10 days. Those that are particularly sensitive may need to start on and ramp up by only 1/8th of a tablet. :i have :been on the celexa for 4 weeks now and im trying to give it time but i :am so tired of feeling certin ways because of a med or no med. i jsut :dont know why im feeling this way  is it the celexa or is it just the :anxiety?

It may be a combination of both a chemical effect, and also a psychological one. A lot of us have pill phobia too. :why would i do this after taking my xanax though. i have never :had this problem before.

There are limits to how much anxiety any med, including the benzos, can control at any given dose. It seems that the Xanax dose you’re on isn’t sufficient to handle the increased anxiety Celexa is producing. Talk to your doctor about increasing Xanax for a few weeks. :i know m xanax use to last for about 8 hours :then it was about down to six and that is about all the time now but :since taking celexa about 4 hours after taking my xanax i feell lie im :going to have a panic attack.

Although it varies from person to person, Xanax is usually only effective for 4-5 hours. :i just dont understand. i have gone on 3rd :shift working now which has everything all screwed up anyway. my sleep :is screwed up and i am irritable.

All of which is probably contributing to the increased anxiety. :i hope none of this has to do with the :new med(celexa) my psychiatrist told me to give it some time.Any :suggestions or help, i really could use it right now.Thanks :

Only to hang in for a few more weeks. Antidepressants are generally very effective anxiety medications, but they do make matters worse initially. But when they begin working they make the pain and misery worthwhile. Its a bit like giving birth, but "labour" lasts much longer. :Candy Harvey

Best wishes Ian

Response:

Candy, Stick with it a couple more weeks.  The other posts are very informative.  I have worked 3rd shift, and the effects that gave me were almost as bad as the panic.  Your sleep pattern is all out of whack, plus the other things that are going on ith you.  Slow down, relax, and try to be nice to yourself, I am praying the Celexa will work for you! Chad Love is true when you can’t see eye to eye, but can still walk hand in hand.

Response:

Thanks for the info everyone. i will hang in there for a while and see what hapens. it is realy great to have you guys ther all of the time. hanks a million and i love yaall. Candy

Response:

Chad Im only on 20mg a day. but i tell you it is rough. one med always has to alter the other or symptoms  everythign is so messed up sometimes. Thanks for the advice. Candy

Response:

Hi Candy- I just switched from paxil to celexa.  For the first month I had increased anxiety and the jitters.  My pdoc said that if it didn’t subside I might need a higher dose, but she wanted to wait till I had been taking it eight weeks before any adjustments were made.  Even with low dose xanax I was still anxious.   The good news, is that at about five weeks the anxiety subsided and I am now doing better at six weeks into celexa than I did in ten months on paxil. If I were you I’d call the doc and try to hang in just a little bit longer.   YMMV Take care, Jess – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hi I havent posted for a while but i have some questions. I have been on the xanax for about 1 yr now for the second time around. I used to take xanax and zoloft but the zoloft didnt do anything for me really. now i am on the xanax again and i am taking celexa. I feel like i am ready to go back on zoloft. With the celexa i feel a little jittery and i have been having alot of anxiety which i think is strange because i am taking my xanax regularly. does celexa cause or make anxiety heighten? i have been on the celexa for 4 weeks now and im trying to give it time but i am so tired of feeling certin ways because of a med or no med. i jsut dont know why im feeling this way  is it the celexa or is it just the anxiety? why would i do this after taking my xanax though. i have never had this problem before. i know m xanax use to last for about 8 hours then it was about down to six and that is about all the time now but since taking celexa about 4 hours after taking my xanax i feell lie im going to have a panic attack. i just dont understand. i have gone on 3rd shift working now which has everything all screwed up anyway. my sleep is screwed up and i am irritable. i hope none of this has to do with the new med(celexa) my psychiatrist told me to give it some time.Any suggestions or help, i really could use it right now.Thanks Candy Harvey

Response:

Hi I havent posted for a while but i have some questions. I have been on the xanax for about 1 yr now for the second time around. I used to take xanax and zoloft but the zoloft didnt do anything for me really. now i am on the xanax again and i am taking celexa. I feel like i am ready to go back on zoloft. With the celexa i feel a little jittery and i have been having alot of anxiety which i think is strange because i am taking my xanax regularly. does celexa cause or make anxiety heighten? i have been on the celexa for 4 weeks now and im trying to give it time but i am so tired of feeling certin ways because of a med or no med. i jsut dont know why im feeling this way  is it the celexa or is it just the anxiety? why would i do this after taking my xanax though. i have never had this problem before. i know m xanax use to last for about 8 hours then it was about down to six and that is about all the time now but since taking celexa about 4 hours after taking my xanax i feell lie im going to have a panic attack. i just dont understand. i have gone on 3rd shift working now which has everything all screwed up anyway. my sleep is screwed up and i am irritable. i hope none of this has to do with the new med(celexa) my psychiatrist told me to give it some time.Any suggestions or help, i really could use it right now.Thanks Candy Harvey

Response:

Question:

Hi Sophie, When I went on Zoloft for the first time, two years ago, I didn’t have any side-effects at all!! I had another doctor at that time. Now, the new doctor gave me the 50mg. I told her I remembered starting with a lower dose last time, but she said, no, 50 mg are the normal starting dose.

To bad we couldn`t make her take 50mgs of Zoloft and see if she likes it<EG!! Since my memory is generally very bad these days, I didn’t want to insist. Later, when the side-effects got so bad, I asked her again if I shouldn’t have started with a lower dose… she said no again.

I hate hearing this!! So many people are afraid to take anti-depressants because of bad experiences like this. You should have started at  12.5mgs or 25mgs, and weaned slowly. I also asked her if I couldn’t go up to the 100 mg a little slower then just doubling the dose. She said that wouldn’t have any effect at all. –

Well, the other day I went through my drawers and discovered a lonely left-over Zoloft tablet from two years ago, 25mg… Well, this teaches me to trust my own mind, however impaired it may be through depression and AD.. and not to believe everything my doc tells me. Thanks for your information!

Your welcome. I feel bad that you had to go through something like this. I am glad you realize that the fault lays with your doctor and not the Zoloft. Take care and good luck. Jackie "Am I right side up or upside down? Is this real or am I dreaming?"

Response:

Hi Jackie, When I went on Zoloft for the first time, two years ago, I didn’t have any side-effects at all!! I had another doctor at that time. Now, the new doctor gave me the 50mg.

Is she a GP or a psychiatrist? I told her I remembered starting with a lower dose last time, but she said, no, 50 mg are the normal starting dose.

12,5 mgs sounds more like it. Since my memory is generally very bad these days, I didn’t want to insist. Later, when the side-effects got so bad, I asked her again if I shouldn’t have started with a lower dose… she said no again.

Sweet, caring doc you have there…. I also asked her if I couldn’t go up to the 100 mg a little slower then just doubling the dose. She said that wouldn’t have any effect at all. –

Good grief….she doesn’t know the first thing about oanic and medication. Well, the other day I went through my drawers and discovered a lonely left-over Zoloft tablet from two years ago, 25mg… Well, this teaches me to trust my own mind, however impaired it may be through depression and AD.. and not to believe everything my doc tells me. Thanks for your information!

Sack the doc! Sophie

Philip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Sophie, You don`t have to go right to 100mgs….you could wean slowly to that dose, that is up to you though. You could go to 75mgs, or even 62.5mgs by cutting the tablet, you would stay at that dose for a week then either increase in 25mg increments, or 12.5mg increments until you reached the 100mgs. For many people a slow weaning process helps to minimize the side-effects. Alot of the side-effects you describe are normal, even the increase in anxiety, perhaps you didn`t wean to 50mgs, you just started at 50mgs? That could explain the hard time you had. Increase in anxiety can be helped by getting a script for a benzo, nausea can be helped by taking the Zoloft on a full stomach. Insomnia can be helped by taking the Zoloft in the AM. Fatigue should dissipate over time. Good luck. Jackie Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

Hi Jackie, When I went on Zoloft for the first time, two years ago, I didn’t have any side-effects at all!! I had another doctor at that time. Now, the new doctor gave me the 50mg. I told her I remembered starting with a lower dose last time, but she said, no, 50 mg are the normal starting dose. Since my memory is generally very bad these days, I didn’t want to insist. Later, when the side-effects got so bad, I asked her again if I shouldn’t have started with a lower dose… she said no again. I also asked her if I couldn’t go up to the 100 mg a little slower then just doubling the dose. She said that wouldn’t have any effect at all. – Well, the other day I went through my drawers and discovered a lonely left-over Zoloft tablet from two years ago, 25mg… Well, this teaches me to trust my own mind, however impaired it may be through depression and AD.. and not to believe everything my doc tells me. Thanks for your information! Sophie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Sophie, You don`t have to go right to 100mgs….you could wean slowly to that dose, that is up to you though. You could go to 75mgs, or even 62.5mgs by cutting the tablet, you would stay at that dose for a week then either increase in 25mg increments, or 12.5mg increments until you reached the 100mgs. For many people a slow weaning process helps to minimize the side-effects. Alot of the side-effects you describe are normal, even the increase in anxiety, perhaps you didn`t wean to 50mgs, you just started at 50mgs? That could explain the hard time you had. Increase in anxiety can be helped by getting a script for a benzo, nausea can be helped by taking the Zoloft on a full stomach. Insomnia can be helped by taking the Zoloft in the AM. Fatigue should dissipate over time. Good luck. Jackie

Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

writes – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hi all, I have a question about Zoloft and Valerian. I just moved, I left my boyfriend of 4 years and moved in with two roommates. They are absolutely sweet and all the changes in my life are for the better, but still I find my anxiety skyrocketing!! It is as bad a I never thought it would be… I am on 50 mg of Zoloft and I don’t really want to increase the dose (I don’t even know if it would help at all, since it works mainly against depression, not the anxiety itself, if I understand this correctly?), so I thought I’d try some Valerian to get me through the day and help me sleep. Do any of you have any information on SSRIs and Valerian? I seem to recall somebody saying one shouldn’t mix them… but on the other hand I always thought Valerian is a relatively harmless herb… some feedback would be greatly appreciated, Sophie Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

I tried Valerian some time ago, and I can’t say that I was very impressed personally.  If you use the herb form to make an infusion, it makes your kitchen smell like something died in there, and of course it gives you no way of knowing what kind of dose you are taking.  I also tried the tablet form, and found that it made me feel like hell the next day.  As always, YMMV . — Jon Guite When replying by email, please remove the trailing x from my return address

Response:

Thanks for your kind replies….. actually, it is a side-effect problem. When I started on Zoloft I was sick for over a week – not only did my anxiety increase, but I was tired at the same time, insomnia and most of all nausea.. I lost quite a bit of weight, which was nice, still I am not too keen on repeating this experience… but what you say sounds convincing, so I think I’ll try the 100 mg. Maybe it’ll work as well for me as for you… thanks again!! Sophie

Hi Sophie, You don`t have to go right to 100mgs….you could wean slowly to that dose, that is up to you though. You could go to 75mgs, or even 62.5mgs by cutting the tablet, you would stay at that dose for a week then either increase in 25mg increments, or 12.5mg increments until you reached the 100mgs. For many people a slow weaning process helps to minimize the side-effects. Alot of the side-effects you describe are normal, even the increase in anxiety, perhaps you didn`t wean to 50mgs, you just started at 50mgs? That could explain the hard time you had. Increase in anxiety can be helped by getting a script for a benzo, nausea can be helped by taking the Zoloft on a full stomach. Insomnia can be helped by taking the Zoloft in the AM. Fatigue should dissipate over time. Good luck. Jackie

Response:

I have a question about Zoloft and Valerian. I just moved, I left my boyfriend of 4 years and moved in with two roommates. They are absolutely sweet and all the changes in my life are for the better, but still I find my anxiety skyrocketing!! It is as bad a I never thought it would be… I am on 50 mg of Zoloft and I don’t really want to increase the dose (I don’t even know if it would help at all, since it works mainly against depression, not the anxiety itself, if I understand this correctly?), so I thought I’d try some Valerian to get me through the day and help me sleep. Do any of you have any information on SSRIs and Valerian? I seem to recall somebody saying one shouldn’t mix them… but on the other hand I always thought Valerian is a relatively harmless herb… some feedback would be greatly appreciated,

Hi Sophie, You have had some major life changes recently no wonder you anxiety is still skyrocketing. I am not sure about mixing Zoloft and Valerian, I would call your doctor and ask, many times herbs and meds don`t mix. I think your best bet is to increase the Zoloft, you can go as high as 200mgs, 50mgs might not be enough. Zoloft is effective for anxiety disorders as well as depression. You might be pleasantly surprised at what a increase might do for you. You could also ask your doctor for a benzo for your anxiety, many people take both a AD and a benzo. Take care. Jackie "Am I right side up or upside down? Is this real or am I dreaming?"

Response:

Thanks for your kind replies….. actually, it is a side-effect problem. When I started on Zoloft I was sick for over a week – not only did my anxiety increase, but I was tired at the same time, insomnia and most of all nausea.. I lost quite a bit of weight, which was nice, still I am not too keen on repeating this experience… but what you say sounds convincing, so I think I’ll try the 100 mg. Maybe it’ll work as well for me as for you… thanks again!! Sophie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sophie –   Actually, unless you have a particulary side-effect problem, I would highly recommend upping your Zoloft dose…My anxiety was not affected at all at 50 mg, but at 100 mg – it is almost entirely gone!  Like night and day…And you can take up to 200 mg/day if it’s needed…   It took some time, but it was worth it…Anyway, Zoloft is recommended for panic and anxiety, so give it a try…I think you’d be better off taking one med anyway (not really sure why you don’t want to increase the dose unless it’s a side-effect thing) than mixing meds…   Hope this helps…Not sure about Valerian…I took some Kava and it helped a little, but you shouldn’t take it with Xanax (which I also started taking with the Zoloft)…Valerian was also suggested to me as far as herbs…Not sure of any interactions here…   Email me anytime if you want…You sound like you are in the same boat as me with a series of life changes leading to terrible anxiety…I am much better with 100 mg Zoloft…I think you could be too… Best, — Charles Phipps

Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

Hi all, I have a question about Zoloft and Valerian. I just moved, I left my boyfriend of 4 years and moved in with two roommates. They are absolutely sweet and all the changes in my life are for the better, but still I find my anxiety skyrocketing!! It is as bad a I never thought it would be… I am on 50 mg of Zoloft and I don’t really want to increase the dose (I don’t even know if it would help at all, since it works mainly against depression, not the anxiety itself, if I understand this correctly?), so I thought I’d try some Valerian to get me through the day and help me sleep. Do any of you have any information on SSRIs and Valerian? I seem to recall somebody saying one shouldn’t mix them… but on the other hand I always thought Valerian is a relatively harmless herb… some feedback would be greatly appreciated, Sophie Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all, I have a question about Zoloft and Valerian. I just moved, I left my boyfriend of 4 years and moved in with two roommates. They are absolutely sweet and all the changes in my life are for the better, but still I find my anxiety skyrocketing!! It is as bad a I never thought it would be… I am on 50 mg of Zoloft and I don’t really want to increase the dose (I don’t even know if it would help at all, since it works mainly against depression, not the anxiety itself, if I understand this correctly?), so I thought I’d try some Valerian to get me through the day and help me sleep. Do any of you have any information on SSRIs and Valerian? I seem to recall somebody saying one shouldn’t mix them… but on the other hand I always thought Valerian is a relatively harmless herb… some feedback would be greatly appreciated, Sophie

Sophie –   Actually, unless you have a particulary side-effect problem, I would highly recommend upping your Zoloft dose…My anxiety was not affected at all at 50 mg, but at 100 mg – it is almost entirely gone!  Like night and day…And you can take up to 200 mg/day if it’s needed…   It took some time, but it was worth it…Anyway, Zoloft is recommended for panic and anxiety, so give it a try…I think you’d be better off taking one med anyway (not really sure why you don’t want to increase the dose unless it’s a side-effect thing) than mixing meds…   Hope this helps…Not sure about Valerian…I took some Kava and it helped a little, but you shouldn’t take it with Xanax (which I also started taking with the Zoloft)…Valerian was also suggested to me as far as herbs…Not sure of any interactions here…   Email me anytime if you want…You sound like you are in the same boat as me with a series of life changes leading to terrible anxiety…I am much better with 100 mg Zoloft…I think you could be too… Best, — Charles Phipps

Response:

Question:

 Well, I have stumbled into a setback the last few days…I am much more functional since I started the Zoloft, and when my time is occupied I do pretty dang well…However, the last couple of days, I have been alone with not much to occupy my time…This has been difficult…Not as bad as before but difficult…Today I cannot enjoy my usual Sunday morning lounge with paper in hand…Now I am begining to worry that I have peaked in the effect I will get from the Zoloft/Xanax combo…Could this be?  I am just about through with week 4 (2 weeks at 50, 2 at 100), will I see more improvement as the weeks go on…I got lots of improvement after 2 weeks, but haven’t seen any since…Need some good stuff today from you all!

Hi Charles, I can only speak from my experience with Paxil, the way I felt at week 4 was alright, the way I felt at  week 8 was good. I had a slow but steady improvement from the second week on Paxil which was the beginning of April, all the way through the summer, even though I didn`t increase my dose past the beginning of May. And I do remember having a off week around week 9 or 10, it had to do with a conflict I had with a family member. And I was so afraid I was having a setback or the med stopped working, which just added to my anxiety. Being alone use to  be a trigger for my anxiety, I think it was a lack of stimulation for me. I can tell you since being on Paxil, I LOVE being alone when I have the opportunity. My husband just had a business trip to Mexico, and normally I would be anxious, I enjoyed him being gone, this tells me I am really doing well( or maybe it is that he annoys the hell out of me <g ) You are having a rough week, but the Zoloft probably has not reached full effectiveness. You have to give it more time. I know this is easier said than done, but you need to occupy your mind. When I had a problem with boredom, what would happen is my thoughts turn inward, thinking about my anxiety and monitoring every sensation and twitch I was having. Even though you are having a bad time, from what you wrote I see improvement.  Sometimes getting better isn`t just measured in  having "good" days, but how we handle our bad days, and you say yourself, it is not as difficult as before. That tells me Zoloft is having a effect on you. Patience my dear friend, you will get there. *Hugs* P.S. And in a few weeks, if you feel you are`nt at the place you want to be, maybe increasing the Zoloft, you can go as high as 200mgs. Jackie "Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, The courage to change the things I cannot accept, And the wisdom to  hide the bodies of those I had to kill today because they ticked me  off and also, help me to be careful of the toes I step on today, as  they may be connected to the butt I may have to kiss tomorrow.

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Hi Charles! I cannot help with the meds questions, but I did want you to know that I am sending positive thoughts your way1 I hope you feel better soon! Being alone is tough, I know but you will get through it! Hang in there! Steph

Charles Writes: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -To all:  Well, I have stumbled into a setback the last few days…I am much more functional since I started the Zoloft, and when my time is occupied I do pretty dang well…However, the last couple of days, I have been alone with not much to occupy my time…This has been difficult…Not as bad as before but difficult…Today I cannot enjoy my usual Sunday morning lounge with paper in hand…Now I am begining to worry that I have peaked in the effect I will get from the Zoloft/Xanax combo…Could this be?  I am just about through with week 4 (2 weeks at 50, 2 at 100), will I see more improvement as the weeks go on…I got lots of improvement after 2 weeks, but haven’t seen any since…Need some good stuff today from you all! Thanks, — Charles Phipps

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Question:

Perhaps we could start with defining self-worth, and considering evolutionary roots leading to it, or how it is seen (or not seen) in lower animals. Below is a suggestion of the meaning of "self worth."  There are needs for certain aspects of belonginness.  Perhaps self-worth would include an assessment of the probability of their being met.  Perhaps this would also include an assessment of one’s "deservingness" of their being met, or in other words, an absence of shame or guilt. We might also consider that there may be brain based templates for such things as shame or guilt, such that if they are stimulated, or their conditions met, an unpleasant feeling is generated, which has the effect of modifying behavior. (more)

 :–  :                            Rational Negativism:  :               A Divergent Theory of Emotional Disorder  :  :Objective: To account for self-worth related emotion (i.e., needs for  :   love, acceptance, moral integrity, recognition, achievement,  :   purpose, meaning, etc.) and emotional disorder (e.g., depression,  :   suicide, etc.) within the context of an evolutionary scenario; i.e.,  :to  :   synthesize natural science and the humanities; i.e., to answer the  :   question:  ’Why is there a species of naturally selected organism  :   expending huge quantities of effort and energy on the  :survivalistically  :   bizarre non-physical objective of  maximizing self-worth?’  : If we view nature films of animals which live in groups, we find the existence of a heirarchy in many of them.  Often that heirarchy is constantly shifting, and is frequently re-ordered.  Sometimes, an individual is on the low end so often, he becomes a permanently low-status member.  He is fearful, and doesn’t even dare to challenge a higher-status member. Since the capacity for this behavior is species-wide, there must be templates for those behaviors involved.  Certainly, one can not impose them on reptiles, or solitary animals like certain cats.  Coincidentally, those seem to be the same animals which are prone to domestication. What are those templates?  How about feelings, such as shame, guilt, fear, a feeling of "less than," of being impressed with another who is "more than." In other words, feelings of a lack of self-worth.  And why do some individuals strive to change the pecking order?  Because those feelings are unpleasant, and they wish for them to be lost.  The way to lose those feelings is to increase one’s status, and with an absence of shame and fear, one has a greater feeling of self-worth. Viewing this in an evolutionary way, why would it happen?  For one thing, a group is more efficient in meeting its needs if it is organized.  For another, lower status enhances cooperation.  And it may be that the higher status individuals breed more often, passing along the genes of the stronger members of the group more frequently than those of the weaker ones. Thus, it is advantageous that the lower ones should strive for higher status, as a test of their potential for ancestry of a future group.  And it may be advantageous if the bolder ones lead the group in defending against intruders. Consequently, we have negative feelings and if not opposite feelings, then at least the absence of the negative ones. There is also an element of confidence.  With confidence, one feels that his behavior is likely to produce a desired result.  And he feels that he has the personal ability to carry out the behaviors.   Consequently, he is more likely to act when he is unable to know the outcome, than would a less confident individual.  Feelings of self-worth seem to be necessary for one to have confidence, and energy to carry out a plan. With the problem of bipolar disorder, this mechanism seems to go astray. The person attains such high confidence, he gambles on high risk propositions.  He has the energy to do a lot of work, and may be aggressive without purpose, as if he were at the top of a pack. Then he swings toward the opposite end, and lacks all confidence, lacks all energy, as if he were at the very bottom.  Is it possible that bipolar disorder means that existing templates for feelings and behavior are being triggered without environmental information which generally does that?  :Observation: The species in which rationality is most developed is  :   also the one in which individuals have the greatest difficulty in  :   maintaining an adequate sense of self-worth, often going to  :   extraordinary lengths in doing so (e.g., Evel Knievel, celibate  :monks,  self-endangering Greenpeacers, etc.).  : We have imposed culture upon our biological nature.  Where other creatures might be satisfied to find a place within a small pack, humans overlay their learning on this impulse, and seek through displays of wealth or education to gain the esteem of others, to bolster their self-esteem.  They may be holier than thou, humbler than thou, stronger or more beautiful, wherever they might find their niche.  Their learning may communicate to them that better means more powerful or more envied, or that better means more right.  :Hypothesis: Rationality is antagonistic to psychocentric stability  :(i.e.,  :   maintaining an adequate sense of self-worth).  :  :Synopsis: In much the manner reasoning allows for the subordination  :   of lower emotional concerns and values (pain, fear, anger, sex, etc.)  :   to more global concerns (concern for the self as a whole), so too,  :   these more global concerns and values can themselves become  :   reevaluated and subordinated to other more global, more objective  :   considerations. And if this is so, and assuming that emotional  :   disorder emanates from a deficiency in self-worth resulting from  :   precisely this sort of experiencially based reevaluation, then it can  :   reasonably be construed as a natural malfunction resulting from  :   one’s rational faculties functioning a tad too well.  : Negative information can cause negative feelings, but negative feelings can also cause all information to seem negative.  There is also a theory that depression has an evolutionary survival function. There was an observation of I think, some perigrene falcons, which mate for life.  The female did not return to the nest, and the male waited for her until he starved to death.  It was concluded that this was not helpful to the species, and therefore, depression was a fluke of nature. However, what would have happened if he had eventually concluded that she was not returning, and he was hungry and needed to find a meal?  Possibly the behavior of mating for life would have been weakened, which is connected to the survival of that species.  So if that happened a lot, and such birds passed along their genes and increased in number, the behavior may have diminished or disappeared, together with its survival function. So a very strong motivation to be loyal to the partner to the very end, possibly contributes to the survival of that species.  Consequently, depression is not without its function there (assuming the bird was depressed, of course.)  :Normalcy and Disorder: Assuming this is correct, then some  :   explanation for the relative "normalcy" of most individuals would  :   seem necessary. This is accomplished simply by postulating  :   different levels or degrees of consciousness.  From this perspective,  :   emotional disorder would then be construed as a valuative affliction  :   resulting from an increase in semantic content in the engram indexed  :   by the linguistic expression, "I am insignificant", which all persons  :of  :   common sense "know" to be true, but which the "emotionally  :   disturbed" have come to "realize", through abstract thought,  :   devaluing experience, etc.  :  :Implications: So-called "free will" and the incessant activity presumed  :   to emanate from it is simply the insatiable appetite we all have for  :   self-significating experience which, in turn, is simply nature’s way  :of  :   attempting to counter the objectifying influences of our rational  :   faculties. This also implies that the engine in the first  :"free-thinking"  :   artifact is probably going to be a diesel.  : Huh?  :  :   "Another simile would be an atomic pile of less than critical size:  :an  :   injected idea is to correspond to a neutron entering the pile from  :   without. Each such neutron will cause a certain disturbance which  :   eventually dies away. If, however, the size of the pile is  :sufficiently  :   increased, the disturbance caused by such an incoming neutron will  :   very likely go on and on increasing until the whole pile is  :destroyed.  :   Is there a corresponding phenomenon for minds?" (A. M. Turing).  :  :  :Additional Implications: Since the explanation I have proposed  :   amounts to the contention that the most rational species  :   (presumably) is beginning to exhibit signs of transcending the  :   formalism of nature’s fixed objective (accomplished in man via  :   intentional self-concern, i.e., the prudence program) it can  :reasonably  :   be construed as providing evidence and argumentation in support of  :   Lucas/Godel. Not only does this imply that the aforementioned  :   artifact probably won’t be a computer, but it would also explain why  :a  :   question such as "Can Human Irrationality Be Experimentally  :   Demonstrated?" (Cohen, 1981) has led to controversy, in that it  :   presupposes the possibility of a discrete (formalizable) answer to a  :   question which can only be addressed in comparative  :   (non-formalizable) terms (e.g. X is more rational than Y, the norm,  :etc.).  : There are some games, including the prisoner’s dilemma, which generally result in irrationality.  There is also a bird which has a behavior of tearing down its neighbor’s nest.  The bird has several choices.  1.) Spend all his time guarding what part of his nest is built, 2.) Look for new … read more »

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–                             Rational Negativism:                A Divergent Theory of Emotional Disorder Objective: To account for self-worth related emotion (i.e., needs for    love, acceptance, moral integrity, recognition, achievement,    purpose, meaning, etc.) and emotional disorder (e.g., depression,    suicide, etc.) within the context of an evolutionary scenario; i.e., to    synthesize natural science and the humanities; i.e., to answer the    question:  ’Why is there a species of naturally selected organism    expending huge quantities of effort and energy on the survivalistically    bizarre non-physical objective of  maximizing self-worth?’ Observation: The species in which rationality is most developed is    also the one in which individuals have the greatest difficulty in    maintaining an adequate sense of self-worth, often going to    extraordinary lengths in doing so (e.g., Evel Knievel, celibate monks,    self-endangering Greenpeacers, etc.). Hypothesis: Rationality is antagonistic to psychocentric stability (i.e.,    maintaining an adequate sense of self-worth). Synopsis: In much the manner reasoning allows for the subordination    of lower emotional concerns and values (pain, fear, anger, sex, etc.)    to more global concerns (concern for the self as a whole), so too,    these more global concerns and values can themselves become    reevaluated and subordinated to other more global, more objective    considerations. And if this is so, and assuming that emotional    disorder emanates from a deficiency in self-worth resulting from    precisely this sort of experiencially based reevaluation, then it can    reasonably be construed as a natural malfunction resulting from    one’s rational faculties functioning a tad too well. Normalcy and Disorder: Assuming this is correct, then some    explanation for the relative "normalcy" of most individuals would    seem necessary. This is accomplished simply by postulating    different levels or degrees of consciousness.  From this perspective,    emotional disorder would then be construed as a valuative affliction    resulting from an increase in semantic content in the engram indexed    by the linguistic expression, "I am insignificant", which all persons of    common sense "know" to be true, but which the "emotionally    disturbed" have come to "realize", through abstract thought,    devaluing experience, etc. Implications: So-called "free will" and the incessant activity presumed    to emanate from it is simply the insatiable appetite we all have for    self-significating experience which, in turn, is simply nature’s way of    attempting to counter the objectifying influences of our rational    faculties. This also implies that the engine in the first "free-thinking"    artifact is probably going to be a diesel.    "Another simile would be an atomic pile of less than critical size: an    injected idea is to correspond to a neutron entering the pile from    without. Each such neutron will cause a certain disturbance which    eventually dies away. If, however, the size of the pile is sufficiently    increased, the disturbance caused by such an incoming neutron will    very likely go on and on increasing until the whole pile is destroyed.    Is there a corresponding phenomenon for minds?" (A. M. Turing). Additional Implications: Since the explanation I have proposed    amounts to the contention that the most rational species    (presumably) is beginning to exhibit signs of transcending the    formalism of nature’s fixed objective (accomplished in man via    intentional self-concern, i.e., the prudence program) it can reasonably    be construed as providing evidence and argumentation in support of    Lucas/Godel. Not only does this imply that the aforementioned    artifact probably won’t be a computer, but it would also explain why a    question such as "Can Human Irrationality Be Experimentally    Demonstrated?" (Cohen, 1981) has led to controversy, in that it    presupposes the possibility of a discrete (formalizable) answer to a    question which can only be addressed in comparative    (non-formalizable) terms (e.g. X is more rational than Y, the norm, etc.).      Along these same lines, the theory can also be construed as an    endorsement or metajustification for comparative approaches in    epistemology (explanationism, plausiblism, etc.)    "The short answer [to Lucas/Godel and more recently, Penrose]     is that, although it is established that there are limitations to the    powers of any particular machine, it has only been stated, without    any sort of proof, that no such limitations apply to human intellect "    (A. M. Turing).    "So even if mathematicians are superb cognizers of mathematical    truth, and even if there is no algorithm, practical or otherwise,    for cognizing mathematical truth, it does not follow that the power    of mathematicians to cognize mathematical truth is not entirely    explicable in terms of their brain’s executing an algorithm.  Not    an algorhithm for intuiting mathematical truth —  we can suppose that    Penrose [via Godel] has proved that there could be no such thing.      What would the algorithm be for, then?  Most plausibly it would be an    algorithm — one of very many — for trying to stay alive … " (D. C.    Dennett). Oops!  Sorry!  Wrong again, old bean.      "My ruling passion is the love of literary fame" (David Hume).    "I have often felt as though I had inherited all the defiance and all the    passions with which our ancestors defended their Temple and could    gladly sacrifice my life for one great moment in history" (Sigmund    Freud).    "He, too [Ludwig Wittgenstein], suffered from depressions and for long    periods considered killing himself because he considered his life    worthless, but the stubbornness inherited from his father may have    helped him to survive" (Hans Sluga).    "The inquest [Alan Turing's] established that it was suicide.  The    evidence was perfunctory, not for any irregular reason, but because    it was so transparently clear a case" (Andrew Hodges) —                Phil Roberts, Jr. Feelings of Worthlessness and So-Called Cognitive Science         http://www.geocities.com/Athens/5476

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Question:

x-no archive : yes Hi Cheryl – I am the OTHER Cheryl – Hi ASED! I haven’t been on the Board much lately, but I am the Old doll, the redhead, the former Binge eater – just didn’t want to confuse anyone – maybe one of us could change our name on the Board – what do you think ? I just don’t want anyone to be confused with two of us here !! With love and support to you all – Cheryl.

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there is a new drug that was approved in this country (US) in July called Celexa.  my pdoc just told me about it because i was having bad side effects from effexor.  i’ve only been reading about it on the intenet…it’s still so new.  look it up under any search engine.  i can’t remember how it works but it is classified as an antidepressant. cheers, cheryl – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Has anyone heard of this medication?  Not sure if it is Selexa, or Xelexa, my doc said it is common in Europe, and is thinking of having me try it, as I can’t seem to increase my dose of Paxil over 10mg, for the bingeing, and depression, and he said it isn’t a therapeutic dose.  Just wondering if anyone ever heard of it, and what the experiences were with it. Suzy

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Maybe you are thinking of "Zyprexa," or "Olanzapine," which is fairly new in the USA.  It is an antipsychotic which is being used sometimes to alleviate "delusional thinking" (body dysmorphia) and other aspects of EDs. –Connie   clixpix

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Has anyone heard of this medication?  Not sure if it is Selexa, or Xelexa, my doc said it is common in Europe, and is thinking of having me try it, as I can’t seem to increase my dose of Paxil over 10mg, for the bingeing, and depression, and he said it isn’t a therapeutic dose.  Just wondering if anyone ever heard of it, and what the experiences were with it. Suzy

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