Question:

I  am  frty  yrs. old and have asthma.  I take accolate twice daily and use the inhalers albuterol, flovent, and combivent.   My mother has same symptoms as  I  do, but her Doctor says hers is Emphysema she is sixty yrs old. They have told  her adults dont get asthma,  they get emphysema. My question is whats the difference in the two and why is it treated the same way.

Asthma is an inflammation-induced bronchoconstriction.  Treatment of the bronchospasm with short- and long-acting bronchodilators, and the underlying inflammation with inhaled steroids can quell the inflammation; and permit an asthmatic to lead a near-normal life. Emphysema [which can result from long-untreated asthma] is a permanent loss of elasticity in the aveoli. They are treated the same because many of the same drugs will assist both conditions. Chris Owens – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thank You [Image]

Response:

I  am  frty  yrs. old and have asthma.  I take accolate twice daily and use the inhalers albuterol, flovent, and combivent.   My mother has same symptoms as  I  do, but her Doctor says hers is Emphysema she is  sixty yrs old. They have told  her adults dont get asthma,  they get emphysema. My question is whats the difference in the two and why is it treated the same way.

Adults do get asthma, called adult onset asthma. Emphesema is generally contracted by smokers tho there is a hereditary version. Asthma is generally considered a reversible condition with drugs. Emphesema is only slightly reversible with drugs. Many older patients have a combination of the 2. Asthma and emphesema are not treated exactly the same way, although some drugs are used for both. Accolate would only be used for asthma–it helps about 1/2 to 2/3 who try it, if it doesn’t help it should be stopped. Combivent (albuterol + Atrovent) is primarily intended for emphesema but may benefit some asthmatics. Albuterol is used for both. Flovent is used to treat the inflammation of asthmatic bronchial tubes tho some with emphysema may benefit. Ellis

Response:

Question:

I was wondering if anyone has had any experience with taking Pulmicort  in addition to Flovent?  My daughter was changed from Flovent 220 4 puffs 2x daily to 2 puffs of Flovent as well as 2 puffs of Pulmicort both twice daily. Dr. thinks she may be able to get the pulmicort deeper into her lungs, but wants to keep her on Flovent as well. She also is on an oral regimen.  Thanx in advance. Sorry to always ask so many questions, but am interested in others feedback.

Response:

Doesn’t make much sense to me. If he thinks the Pulmicort will penetrate deeper then why still use the FLovent? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was wondering if anyone has had any experience with taking Pulmicort  in addition to Flovent?  My daughter was changed from Flovent 220 4 puffs 2x daily to 2 puffs of Flovent as well as 2 puffs of Pulmicort both twice daily. Dr. thinks she may be able to get the pulmicort deeper into her lungs, but wants to keep her on Flovent as well. She also is on an oral regimen.  Thanx in advance. Sorry to always ask so many questions, but am interested in others feedback.

Response:

To be honest the deeper pentration of Pulmicort is a promotional trick of the Pharmaceutical Company. Deeper penetration does not mean better action because the asthma inflamation is restricted to medium bronchi. Deeper steroid penetration may be joined with greater side effects as the drug is easily distributed to the blood from the pulmonary alveoli. Flovent has greater therapeutic index what means greater efficacy and less side effects. Rather stay with this drug. Marcin STrzondala MD

Response:

To be honest the deeper pentration of Pulmicort is a promotional trick of the Pharmaceutical Company. Deeper penetration does not mean better action because the asthma inflamation is restricted to medium bronchi. Deeper steroid penetration may be joined with greater side effects as the drug is easily distributed to the blood from the pulmonary alveoli. Flovent has greater therapeutic index what means greater efficacy and less side effects. Rather stay with this drug. Marcin STrzondala MD

I don’t knew, what you knew, but I think… …you have some friends from glaxo, …you don’t knew what Astra says, …you aren’t helpful for most ng-members, because your minds are indifferent and you make presumption of the work of an home-medician. You are right with the connexion of deeper penetration and Alveolitis. Lothar.

Response:

Question:

"Sesgardner" <sesgard…@aol.com

wrote in message

news:20040310123738.29604.00001207@mb-m21.aol.com…

I heard back from the psychiatrist who said the Torticollis could be

a rare

side effect from increasing his Effexor dose, which we did recently.

So now we

are decreasing it again, which of course brings on an entirely

different set of

problems.

I was actually wondering about that….let us know what happens.

As for the delirium with the toothache, I meant that I was not

coherent about

the passage of time, or what was going on. I was home alone, in bed,

just

basically sleeping and eating ibuprofen. I did try to speak up to

the dentist,

but I tend to be a hypochondriac, so when the dentist told me to

take ibuprofen

and see him on Monday, I figured I was over-reacting. He is a really

great guy,

and he felt terrible when he saw the condition I was in. I also have

difficulty

sometimes making myself clear on the phone when articulating my

needs, so I

don’t blame him.

Now he’ll know, and you too, for next time (which i hope doesn’t come soon)

Ah, well. Wish me luck with the Torticollis/Depression etc. My ex

was NO help,

when I was discussing reducing the Effexor with him, he said, "well,

he should

be learning coping skills for his depression anyway, and should be

able to stop

taking anti-depressants completely soon."

I’m all for learning coping skills and cognitive-behavioral techniques for helping with depression, but for many people that just isn’t enough.

Ugh. The man has NO clue what he is talking about. My entire family

has genetic

chemical depression, although hanging around the likes of HIM

doesn’t really

help! Okay, I’ll stop venting. xoxoox Sara

No need, venting is good! jo

Response:

Torticollis has more than one cause.  You can be born with it.  I’ve had it several times, as had my wife.  It comes on as a "crick" in the neck, causing intense pain when you turn your head in one direction; as a result you end up holding your head in an abnormal position and other muscles get sore.  It often last a day or two and can be treated with heat and/or muscle relaxants.  There can be other underlying causes such as an extra rib in the cervical area, etc.  It can be spontaneous or come from unusual positions and strains like long flights, sleeping oddly, carrying heavy luggage, etc. Roger D. Freeman, M.D. "Sesgardner" <sesgard…@aol.com

wrote in message

news:20040309221844.02929.00001011@mb-m15.aol.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Does anyone know anything about torticollis? It’s also known as Wry Neck.

My

13-year-old son was just dx’d with it. Sara

Response:

It can be spontaneous or come from unusual positions and strains like long flights, sleeping oddly, carrying heavy luggage, etc.

Thank you Roger, I’m beginning to suspect that while the Effexor may have made conditions more hospitable for it, the real culprit is the 60-pound backpack. He’s been using a rolling backpack since Monday, and as of today is almost pain-free and is not twisted. Of course, I have not let up on the ibuprofen. I’ll wait until the weekend to see how he does without that. Sara

Response:

"Sesgardner" <sesgard…@aol.com

wrote in message

news:20040311103736.12145.00001317@mb-m02.aol.com…

It can be spontaneous or come from unusual positions and strains like long flights, sleeping oddly, carrying heavy

luggage, etc.

Thank you Roger, I’m beginning to suspect that while the Effexor may

have made

conditions more hospitable for it, the real culprit is the 60-pound

backpack.

He’s been using a rolling backpack since Monday, and as of today is

almost

pain-free and is not twisted.

Sixty pounds! That’s insane! Is he studying Geology? If he was carrying it over one shoulder, no wonder!! Jo – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Of course, I have not let up on the ibuprofen. I’ll wait until the

weekend to

see how he does without that. Sara

Response:

If he was carrying it over one shoulder, no wonder!! Jo

No, he uses both shoulders, all the kids do, but hoisting it up there is a feat. Not studying Geology, just History, Algebra, Science, Art, plus notebooks for all subjects, plus workbooks, plus a large binder, plus a P.E. binder and workbook, plus a binder reminder. It’s ridiculous. None of the kids use their lockers, because the lockers are just broken into and the contents stolen. And this is in the BEST part of town, in one of the top 100 safest cities in the United States. I shudder to think what is going on in other schools. Sara

Response:

‘Twas 10 Mar 2004 17:37:38 GMT when all alt.support.tourette stood in awe as sesgard…@aol.com (Sesgardner) uttered:

My ex was NO help, when I was discussing reducing the Effexor with him, he said, "well, he should be learning coping skills for his depression anyway, and should be able to stop taking anti-depressants completely soon."

He seems about as sympathetic as granite.  How did you ever…I shouldn’t ask.

Ugh. The man has NO clue what he is talking about. My entire family has genetic chemical depression,

Is the genetic problem depression per se or allergies?  Many people have been diagnosed with mental condition that were environmentally caused.  

Okay, I’ll stop venting.

A.s.t is a perfect place to vent. — RB |  

Question:

Nichole, Excuse my ignorance but I saw you mention you gave up cream cheese. I had asked you why in a previous post , so that question is answered. I’m wondering why you dont eat Diet Jello if it has no carbs? Is it because it whets your appetite for sweets? I’m new at this. Is there a list of things that people in here have found to be counter productive though it is considered legal food? Thanks so much, Laureen

Response:

Beth, smack smack whats to give up. Its a healthy change post a day or two here are you working out did you consume some major salt intake prior to the 4 lb gain there are so many factors are you measureing and counting foods if you have lowered your calorie, sometimes what we think is a cup and what is a cup is vastly different You are the person in control of your weightloss, no one else JoKnows

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am sort of giving up on the idea of weightloss. I will stay on Atkins just because it’s effects on my BG.  I have not lost anything, inches or lbs. since my first 12 days. I woke up this morning and found I gained 4 1/2 lbs in 2 days. I don’t get my TOM so that can’t be it. ( I did lower my calories 1900- 2000/day) I had to give up Chromium Picolinate because it made my BG rise. I did find that I must eat something ever 3-4 hours or my BG rises. My body thinks I am starving and makes my liver kick out more glycogen.  This all stems from years of starving my self. No Breakfasts. Ignoring hunger pangs. Being to lazy to get up and make something.  I actually have conditioned myself to enjoy the feeling of being hungry. Sure I get lightheaded but …. Hmmm.. I can’t remember any benefits of it. I used to do it because I didn’t want to be seen eating in front of my friends in school and I wanted to sleep in a little longer in the morning. I am not sure how to correct it. I will try to eat more calories from protain and fat. I will try Nina’s suggestion for 10x weight and I won’t weigh myself for 3 weeks. We’ll see where I stand then. I am trying to wean myself off from my Zoloft. I currently take 50 mg. The reason I take it is because of a natural tendency for despair. I get very negative about myself. With it I feel great. I just know it is said that these type of meds hinder weightloss. Can you suggest any natural alternatives. I have to go back to my DR. in December for a 3 month Hba1c. I will also ask him to test my thyroid to make sure my Levoxl is working enough. My body temp. is always 97.8 and hasn’t changed since beginning the Thyroid meds. After Thanksgiving I am going to try a Yeast cleansing diet to see if that is a cause of no weight loss. BethM — homepage.mac.com/bsmorr/Photo 1         297/291.5/165

Response:

Oh, Beth… I’m sorry you are feeling bad about your lack of loss in the last few weeks. If you posted what you are eating, I missed it.  I usually don’t read those posts.  I cut out cream and cream cheese, artificial sweetener in packet form and am trying to eliminate all preservatives from my diet.  I also cut out diet Jell-O.  I know this way of eating works for improvement of so many areas of one’s physical being, including weight loss.  I think that Dianne Schwartzbien said that some people may not lose for an entire year on low carb because they have been so depleted by years of low cal/low fat dieting. I think you are wise to continue on Low Carb to reap the medical benefits. I do believe if you experiment a bit you may find yourself losing the weight you wish to shed.  Hang in there, babydoll!  Bliss is just down the road a piece.

Thanks Nichole, I am going to try a few differnt things and try to forget about losing weight. I am hoping for a big weight loss suprise at the end of 3 weeks. I will never leave this WOE BethM — Some of God’s greatest gifts are unanswerd prayers. (Garth Brooks) homepage.mac.com/bsmorr/Photo 1        297/291.5/165

Response:

Hi Beth, Sorry to hear about all the trouble you’ve been having. I can’t actually see your initial post. I just got here and I think it’s too old for me to see. If you’d like, reply with what you eat on a daily basis and I’ll try to help out… — Sal C. Author of, "The One Low Carb Diet That Always Works" www.simplifiedweightloss.com

Thanks but I am not going to keep posting my foods. I have read the books I know what might be the culprit. I will give it three weeks. I am fighting hypothyroidism, and am taking my temp. As of 4:11pm I am 97.6. My levoxyl need adjusting. BethM — Some of God’s greatest gifts are unanswerd prayers. (Garth Brooks) homepage.mac.com/bsmorr/Photo 1        297/291.5/165

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey, Beth, don’t give up. I do think it’s a good idea to give yourself a little break for awhile though, emotionally. Not weighing for awhile is a great way to take a break. But don’t give up entirely. You may still be in an adjustment phase. I think you should listen to Nina about the 10-12x your weight in calories. Nina really knows her stuff! I’m not sure a natural alternative to Zoloft wouldn’t have the same side effects. But you wouldn’t be able to control the dose as well. Maybe your doctor has another suggestion about a different medication. You may have hit on something about getting hungry. Can you work on spreading out your food over even more meals than you already do? Maybe you have something to go on about the yeast, too. The yeast cleansing diet isn’t hard to do, after you get used to it, according to DH. You can do it any day of the year, even Thanksgiving. Try this page www.candidapage.com There’s a food list there that DH followed. He fixed himself up. CAD 2/94 LC 7/01 188/167/126

Thank you for your support it means a lot. Bethm — Some of God’s greatest gifts are unanswerd prayers. (Garth Brooks) homepage.mac.com/bsmorr/Photo 1        297/291.5/165

Response:

Nichole, Excuse my ignorance but I saw you mention you gave up cream cheese. I had asked you why in a previous post , so that question is answered. I’m wondering why you dont eat Diet Jello if it has no carbs? Is it because it whets your appetite for sweets? I’m new at this. Is there a list of things that people in here have found to be counter productive though it is considered legal food? Thanks so much, Laureen

Diet Jell-o is made with aspartame which may cause stalls. The calories in Jell-o are the Aspartame. BethM — Some of God’s greatest gifts are unanswerd prayers. (Garth Brooks) homepage.mac.com/bsmorr/Photo 1        297/291.5/165

Response:

Zoloft. I currently take 50 mg. … these type of meds hinder weightloss. Can you suggest any natural alternatives. Beth: For me, Zoloft not only stalled weight loss, but put pounds back on — almost daily! I switched to St. John’s Wort (900 mg. per day) with much success.  None of the side effects of Zoloft with all of the antidepressant effects. BarbF

Thabk You so much Barb. I appreciate you telling me that. You’re a sweetie. I’ll go get some next week once I wean myself off the Zoloft. Last time I went cold turkey and was sickeningly dizzy for weeks. BethM — Some of God’s greatest gifts are unanswerd prayers. (Garth Brooks) homepage.mac.com/bsmorr/Photo 1        297/291.5/165

Response:

{{{{{Beth}}}}} I’m sorry you feeling frustrated, but hang in there. — Polly

Thanks for the hug Polly. I am sending one right back to you {{{{{Polly}}}}}. BethM — Some of God’s greatest gifts are unanswerd prayers. (Garth Brooks) homepage.mac.com/bsmorr/Photo 1        297/291.5/165

Response:

Beth, I have the same problem but here’s the thing *INCREASE* your calories if you want to lose weight, I’m serious. I have the exact same problem as you and the *only* way that I actually lose weight is by eating at least 12x body weight (lbs) in calories and drinking tons of water. DO NOT LOWER YOUR CALORIES. It’s only bringing your body back to that "comfortable" state of starving which has not done anything but keep the pounds on all this time. Trust me, this is something I find myself struggling with daily.Don’t give up, just try to force yourself to eat more calories and see what happens. Good luck,if I can do it I know you can do it too Erika RollerGirl

Thanks for really understanding. You and the others make me feel so cared for. BethM — Some of God’s greatest gifts are unanswerd prayers. (Garth Brooks) homepage.mac.com/bsmorr/Photo 1        297/291.5/165

Response:

Beth, smack smack whats to give up. Its a healthy change

I know that’s why I won’t give up Atkins post a day or two here

Been there, done that, not doing it again are you working out

I do the eliptical trainer every other day and walk my dog. I am increasing slowly. did you consume some major salt intake prior to the 4 lb gain

 You betch’a lot’s of pepperoni. That and to much psyllium with too little water did a number on me.  I know we aren’t supposed to have processed foods, but, I wanted something at the movies and there were no Pork rinds to be found. there are so many factors

My hypothyroidism, possible yeast ,and on and on. are you measureing and counting foods if you have lowered your calorie, sometimes what we think is a cup and what is a cup is vastly different

I measure all the time, everytime. You are the person in control of your weightloss, no one else I know. JoKnows

Thanks Jo, BethM — Some of God’s greatest gifts are unanswerd prayers. (Garth Brooks) homepage.mac.com/bsmorr/Photo 1        297/291.5/165

Response:

Beth, when I started, I was being switched from Zoloft to Serzone to Celexa. Since sticking with LC for a few months, I didn’t need any of it.  I would get so down on myself I would try to punish myself like pulling out a handful of hair or pinching myself really hard because I was so mad at myself for being so fat and out of control.  You ‘re doing the right thing by going LC.  Some people use St. John’s Wort for depression, but I find that I don’t even need that.  Hang in there hon, we’re all here for you. — Serena 340/161/145 http://photos.yahoo.com/gweeble_1998

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am sort of giving up on the idea of weightloss. I will stay on Atkins just because it’s effects on my BG.  I have not lost anything, inches or lbs. since my first 12 days. I woke up this morning and found I gained 4 1/2 lbs in 2 days. I don’t get my TOM so that can’t be it. ( I did lower my calories 1900- 2000/day) I had to give up Chromium Picolinate because it made my BG rise. I did find that I must eat something ever 3-4 hours or my BG rises. My body thinks I am starving and makes my liver kick out more glycogen.  This all stems from years of starving my self. No Breakfasts. Ignoring hunger pangs. Being to lazy to get up and make something.  I actually have conditioned myself to enjoy the feeling of being hungry. Sure I get lightheaded but …. Hmmm.. I can’t remember any benefits of it. I used to do it because I didn’t want to be seen eating in front of my friends in school and I wanted to sleep in a little longer in the morning. I am not sure how to correct it. I will try to eat more calories from protain and fat. I will try Nina’s suggestion for 10x weight and I won’t weigh myself for 3 weeks. We’ll see where I stand then. I am trying to wean myself off from my Zoloft. I currently take 50 mg. The reason I take it is because of a natural tendency for despair. I get very negative about myself. With it I feel great. I just know it is said that these type of meds hinder weightloss. Can you suggest any natural alternatives. I have to go back to my DR. in December for a 3 month Hba1c. I will also ask him to test my thyroid to make sure my Levoxl is working enough. My body temp. is always 97.8 and hasn’t changed since beginning the Thyroid meds. After Thanksgiving I am going to try a Yeast cleansing diet to see if that is a cause of no weight loss. BethM — homepage.mac.com/bsmorr/Photo 1         297/291.5/165

Response:

Beth, when I started, I was being switched from Zoloft to Serzone to Celexa. Since sticking with LC for a few months, I didn’t need any of it.  I would get so down on myself I would try to punish myself like pulling out a handful of hair or pinching myself really hard because I was so mad at myself for being so fat and out of control.  You ‘re doing the right thing by going LC.  Some people use St. John’s Wort for depression, but I find that I don’t even need that.  Hang in there hon, we’re all here for you. — Serena 340/161/145

Thanks Serena. I would love to not need the stuff anymore. BethM — Some of God’s greatest gifts are unanswerd prayers. (Garth Brooks) homepage.mac.com/bsmorr/Photo 1        297/291.5/165

Response:

OK, I agree w/ all of the above, Beth , hang in there. Effexor has done wonders for me, I’ve lost a bunch on it.  Don’t stop taking your meds w/o the docs help.–he/she can help  you do the switch.  And no Starvation Mode for you girlie!!  Eat your meat!! hinesranch 226/174/135

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Beth, when I started, I was being switched from Zoloft to Serzone to Celexa. Since sticking with LC for a few months, I didn’t need any of it.  I would get so down on myself I would try to punish myself like pulling out a handful of hair or pinching myself really hard because I was so mad at myself for being so fat and out of control.  You ‘re doing the right thing by going LC.  Some people use St. John’s Wort for depression, but I find that I don’t even need that.  Hang in there hon, we’re all here for you. — Serena 340/161/145 Thanks Serena. I would love to not need the stuff anymore. BethM — Some of God’s greatest gifts are unanswerd prayers. (Garth Brooks) homepage.mac.com/bsmorr/Photo 1        297/291.5/165

Response:

OK, I agree w/ all of the above, Beth , hang in there. Effexor has done wonders for me, I’ve lost a bunch on it.  Don’t stop taking your meds w/o the docs help.–he/she can help  you do the switch.  And no Starvation Mode for you girlie!!  Eat your meat!! hinesranch 226/174/135

What is Effexor? Again I haven’t eaten much. I have been running aroungd all day and there is nothing made. I’m a bad girl. BethM — Some of God’s greatest gifts are unanswerd prayers. (Garth Brooks) homepage.mac.com/bsmorr/Photo 1        297/291.5/165

Response:

diet Jell-o does have carbs. For one serving, it is something like .06. Earlier in this WOE (woe is me? lol) I thought if it said zero, it meant zero.  Not so.  Check everything on www.fitday.com  Jell-O just ain’t free. I stopped eating it because it has aspartame, it was hindering the loss of my sweet tooth, and I want sweet things to be very special events.  I mean, I want to save them for very special events. I think my list in the thread called "Starting a 3-day meat fast" has the list of things that sometimes cause problems for people on LC.  Sorry for not answering the cream cheese question before.  Feel free to email me. — Nichole–in Montana^^^ http://profiles.yahoo.com/ms_fausey http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ASDLCMeetGreet Yahoo Messenger ID:  ms_fausey

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Nichole, Excuse my ignorance but I saw you mention you gave up cream cheese. I had asked you why in a previous post , so that question is answered. I’m wondering why you dont eat Diet Jello if it has no carbs? Is it because it whets your appetite for sweets? I’m new at this. Is there a list of things that people in here have found to be counter productive though it is considered legal food? Thanks so much, Laureen

Response:

I am sort of giving up on the idea of weightloss. I will stay on Atkins just because it’s effects on my BG.  I have not lost anything, inches or lbs. since my first 12 days. I woke up this morning and found I gained 4 1/2 lbs in 2 days. I don’t get my TOM so that can’t be it. ( I did lower my calories 1900- 2000/day)

Beth, it’s tough to stay on-WOE when the numbers don’t move, yet it’s good preparation for manitenance.  Nina’s advice is what worked for me even though I had trouble believing that 10x present weight would take weight off.  For me, it did.  I hope your metabolism catches up with your intentions or that your scales are broken. Hang in there, woman — it’s worth the fight! Cheers, Kay 232/144 (lowcarb since 98/12/26) maintenance since May 2000

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am sort of giving up on the idea of weightloss. I will stay on Atkins just because it’s effects on my BG.  I have not lost anything, inches or lbs. since my first 12 days. I woke up this morning and found I gained 4 1/2 lbs in 2 days. I don’t get my TOM so that can’t be it. ( I did lower my calories 1900- 2000/day) Beth, it’s tough to stay on-WOE when the numbers don’t move, yet it’s good preparation for manitenance.  Nina’s advice is what worked for me even though I had trouble believing that 10x present weight would take weight off.  For me, it did.  I hope your metabolism catches up with your intentions or that your scales are broken. Hang in there, woman — it’s worth the fight! Cheers, Kay

Kay, Thanks for the help. I don’t mind this WOE at all. I don’t miss anything. BethM 232/144 (lowcarb since 98/12/26) maintenance since May 2000

– Some of God’s greatest gifts are unanswerd prayers. (Garth Brooks) homepage.mac.com/bsmorr/Photo 1        297/291.5/165

Response:

Oh, Beth… I’m sorry you are feeling bad about your lack of loss in the last few weeks. If you posted what you are eating, I missed it.  I usually don’t read those posts.  I cut out cream and cream cheese, artificial sweetener in packet form and am trying to eliminate all preservatives from my diet.  I also cut out diet Jell-O.  I know this way of eating works for improvement of so many areas of one’s physical being, including weight loss.  I think that Dianne Schwartzbien said that some people may not lose for an entire year on low carb because they have been so depleted by years of low cal/low fat dieting. I think you are wise to continue on Low Carb to reap the medical benefits. I do believe if you experiment a bit you may find yourself losing the weight you wish to shed.  Hang in there, babydoll!  Bliss is just down the road a piece. — Nichole–in Montana^^^ http://profiles.yahoo.com/ms_fausey http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ASDLCMeetGreet Yahoo Messenger ID:  ms_fausey

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am sort of giving up on the idea of weightloss. I will stay on Atkins just because it’s effects on my BG.  I have not lost anything, inches or lbs. since my first 12 days. I woke up this morning and found I gained 4 1/2 lbs in 2 days. I don’t get my TOM so that can’t be it. ( I did lower my calories 1900- 2000/day) I had to give up Chromium Picolinate because it made my BG rise. I did find that I must eat something ever 3-4 hours or my BG rises. My body thinks I am starving and makes my liver kick out more glycogen.  This all stems from years of starving my self. No Breakfasts. Ignoring hunger pangs. Being to lazy to get up and make something.  I actually have conditioned myself to enjoy the feeling of being hungry. Sure I get lightheaded but …. Hmmm.. I can’t remember any benefits of it. I used to do it because I didn’t want to be seen eating in front of my friends in school and I wanted to sleep in a little longer in the morning. I am not sure how to correct it. I will try to eat more calories from protain and fat. I will try Nina’s suggestion for 10x weight and I won’t weigh myself for 3 weeks. We’ll see where I stand then. I am trying to wean myself off from my Zoloft. I currently take 50 mg. The reason I take it is because of a natural tendency for despair. I get very negative about myself. With it I feel great. I just know it is said that these type of meds hinder weightloss. Can you suggest any natural alternatives. I have to go back to my DR. in December for a 3 month Hba1c. I will also ask him to test my thyroid to make sure my Levoxl is working enough. My body temp. is always 97.8 and hasn’t changed since beginning the Thyroid meds. After Thanksgiving I am going to try a Yeast cleansing diet to see if that is a cause of no weight loss. BethM — homepage.mac.com/bsmorr/Photo 1         297/291.5/165

Response:

Zoloft. I currently take 50 mg. … these type of meds hinder weightloss. Can you suggest any natural alternatives.

Beth: For me, Zoloft not only stalled weight loss, but put pounds back on — almost daily! I switched to St. John’s Wort (900 mg. per day) with much success.  None of the side effects of Zoloft with all of the antidepressant effects. BarbF

Response:

Hi Beth, Sorry to hear about all the trouble you’ve been having. I can’t actually see your initial post. I just got here and I think it’s too old for me to see. If you’d like, reply with what you eat on a daily basis and I’ll try to help out… — Sal C. Author of, "The One Low Carb Diet That Always Works" www.simplifiedweightloss.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Oh, Beth… I’m sorry you are feeling bad about your lack of loss in the last few weeks. If you posted what you are eating, I missed it.  I usually don’t read those posts.  I cut out cream and cream cheese, artificial sweetener in packet form and am trying to eliminate all preservatives from my diet.  I also cut out diet Jell-O.  I know this way of eating works for improvement of so many areas of one’s physical being, including weight loss.  I think that Dianne Schwartzbien said that some people may not lose for an entire year on low carb because they have been so depleted by years of low cal/low fat dieting. I think you are wise to continue on Low Carb to reap the medical benefits. I do believe if you experiment a bit you may find yourself losing the weight you wish to shed.  Hang in there, babydoll!  Bliss is just down the road a piece. — Nichole–in Montana^^^ http://profiles.yahoo.com/ms_fausey http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ASDLCMeetGreet Yahoo Messenger ID:  ms_fausey I am sort of giving up on the idea of weightloss. I will stay on Atkins just because it’s effects on my BG.  I have not lost anything, inches or lbs. since my first 12 days. I woke up this morning and found I gained 4 1/2 lbs in 2 days. I don’t get my TOM so that can’t be it. ( I did lower my calories 1900- 2000/day) I had to give up Chromium Picolinate because it made my BG rise. I did find that I must eat something ever 3-4 hours or my BG rises. My body thinks I am starving and makes my liver kick out more glycogen.  This all stems from years of starving my self. No Breakfasts. Ignoring hunger pangs. Being to lazy to get up and make something.  I actually have conditioned myself to enjoy the feeling of being hungry. Sure I get lightheaded but …. Hmmm.. I can’t remember any benefits of it. I used to do it because I didn’t want to be seen eating in front of my friends in school and I wanted to sleep in a little longer in the morning. I am not sure how to correct it. I will try to eat more calories from protain and fat. I will try Nina’s suggestion for 10x weight and I won’t weigh myself for 3 weeks. We’ll see where I stand then. I am trying to wean myself off from my Zoloft. I currently take 50 mg. The reason I take it is because of a natural tendency for despair. I get very negative about myself. With it I feel great. I just know it is said that these type of meds hinder weightloss. Can you suggest any natural alternatives. I have to go back to my DR. in December for a 3 month Hba1c. I will also ask him to test my thyroid to make sure my Levoxl is working enough. My body temp. is always 97.8 and hasn’t changed since beginning the Thyroid meds. After Thanksgiving I am going to try a Yeast cleansing diet to see if that is a cause of no weight loss. BethM — homepage.mac.com/bsmorr/Photo 1         297/291.5/165

Response:

I am sort of giving up on the idea of weightloss. I will stay on Atkins just because it’s effects on my BG.  I have not lost anything, inches or lbs. since my first 12 days. I woke up this morning and found I gained 4 1/2 lbs in 2 days. I don’t get my TOM so that can’t be it. ( I did lower my calories 1900- 2000/day) This all stems from years of starving my self. No Breakfasts. Ignoring hunger pangs. Being to lazy to get up and make something.

Beth, I have the same problem but here’s the thing *INCREASE* your calories if you want to lose weight, I’m serious. I have the exact same problem as you and the *only* way that I actually lose weight is by eating at least 12x body weight (lbs) in calories and drinking tons of water. DO NOT LOWER YOUR CALORIES. It’s only bringing your body back to that "comfortable" state of starving which has not done anything but keep the pounds on all this time. Trust me, this is something I find myself struggling with daily.Don’t give up, just try to force yourself to eat more calories and see what happens. Good luck,if I can do it I know you can do it too Erika RollerGirl

Response:

{{{{{Beth}}}}} I’m sorry you feeling frustrated, but hang in there. — Polly (172/169/120) Start 11/01

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am sort of giving up on the idea of weightloss. I will stay on Atkins just because it’s effects on my BG.  I have not lost anything, inches or lbs. since my first 12 days. I woke up this morning and found I gained 4 1/2 lbs in 2 days. I don’t get my TOM so that can’t be it. ( I did lower my calories 1900- 2000/day) I had to give up Chromium Picolinate because it made my BG rise. I did find that I must eat something ever 3-4 hours or my BG rises. My body thinks I am starving and makes my liver kick out more glycogen.  This all stems from years of starving my self. No Breakfasts. Ignoring hunger pangs. Being to lazy to get up and make something.  I actually have conditioned myself to enjoy the feeling of being hungry. Sure I get lightheaded but …. Hmmm.. I can’t remember any benefits of it. I used to do it because I didn’t want to be seen eating in front of my friends in school and I wanted to sleep in a little longer in the morning. I am not sure how to correct it. I will try to eat more calories from protain and fat. I will try Nina’s suggestion for 10x weight and I won’t weigh myself for 3 weeks. We’ll see where I stand then. I am trying to wean myself off from my Zoloft. I currently take 50 mg. The reason I take it is because of a natural tendency for despair. I get very negative about myself. With it I feel great. I just know it is said that these type of meds hinder weightloss. Can you suggest any natural alternatives. I have to go back to my DR. in December for a 3 month Hba1c. I will also ask him to test my thyroid to make sure my Levoxl is working enough. My body temp. is always 97.8 and hasn’t changed since beginning the Thyroid meds. After Thanksgiving I am going to try a Yeast cleansing diet to see if that is a cause of no weight loss. BethM — homepage.mac.com/bsmorr/Photo 1         297/291.5/165

Response:

Hey, Beth, don’t give up. I do think it’s a good idea to give yourself a little break for awhile though, emotionally. Not weighing for awhile is a great way to take a break. But don’t give up entirely. You may still be in an adjustment phase. I think you should listen to Nina about the 10-12x your weight in calories. Nina really knows her stuff! I’m not sure a natural alternative to Zoloft wouldn’t have the same side effects. But you wouldn’t be able to control the dose as well. Maybe your doctor has another suggestion about a different medication. You may have hit on something about getting hungry. Can you work on spreading out your food over even more meals than you already do? Maybe you have something to go on about the yeast, too. The yeast cleansing diet isn’t hard to do, after you get used to it, according to DH. You can do it any day of the year, even Thanksgiving. Try this page www.candidapage.com There’s a food list there that DH followed. He fixed himself up. CAD 2/94 LC 7/01 188/167/126

Response:

OH Beth, don’t give up…..((((((((hugs))))))))))  I know it can be discouraging at times.  I would listen to Nina about the calorie thing. Stay low carb, and drink water, stay off the scale.  Know that we are all here for you.  Hang in there !!! Sheila

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am sort of giving up on the idea of weightloss. I will stay on Atkins just because it’s effects on my BG.  I have not lost anything, inches or lbs. since my first 12 days. I woke up this morning and found I gained 4 1/2 lbs in 2 days. I don’t get my TOM so that can’t be it. ( I did lower my calories 1900- 2000/day) I had to give up Chromium Picolinate because it made my BG rise. I did find that I must eat something ever 3-4 hours or my BG rises. My body thinks I am starving and makes my liver kick out more glycogen.  This all stems from years of starving my self. No Breakfasts. Ignoring hunger pangs. Being to lazy to get up and make something.  I actually have conditioned myself to enjoy the feeling of being hungry. Sure I get lightheaded but …. Hmmm.. I can’t remember any benefits of it. I used to do it because I didn’t want to be seen eating in front of my friends in school and I wanted to sleep in a little longer in the morning. I am not sure how to correct it. I will try to eat more calories from protain and fat. I will try Nina’s suggestion for 10x weight and I won’t weigh myself for 3 weeks. We’ll see where I stand then. I am trying to wean myself off from my Zoloft. I currently take 50 mg. The reason I take it is because of a natural tendency for despair. I get very negative about myself. With it I feel great. I just know it is said that these type of meds hinder weightloss. Can you suggest any natural alternatives. I have to go back to my DR. in December for a 3 month Hba1c. I will also ask him to test my thyroid to make sure my Levoxl is working enough. My body temp. is always 97.8 and hasn’t changed since beginning the Thyroid meds. After Thanksgiving I am going to try a Yeast cleansing diet to see if that is a cause of no weight loss. BethM — homepage.mac.com/bsmorr/Photo 1         297/291.5/165

Response:

I am sort of giving up on the idea of weightloss. I will stay on Atkins just because it’s effects on my BG.  I have not lost anything, inches or lbs. since my first 12 days. I woke up this morning and found I gained 4 1/2 lbs in 2 days. I don’t get my TOM so that can’t be it. ( I did lower my calories 1900- 2000/day) I had to give up Chromium Picolinate because it made my BG rise. I did find that I must eat something ever 3-4 hours or my BG rises. My body thinks I am starving and makes my liver kick out more glycogen.  This all stems from years of starving my self. No Breakfasts. Ignoring hunger pangs. Being to lazy to get up and make something.  I actually have conditioned myself to enjoy the feeling of being hungry. Sure I get lightheaded but …. Hmmm.. I can’t remember any benefits of it. I used to do it because I didn’t want to be seen eating in front of my friends in school and I wanted to sleep in a little longer in the morning. I am not sure how to correct it. I will try to eat more calories from protain and fat. I will try Nina’s suggestion for 10x weight and I won’t weigh myself for 3 weeks. We’ll see where I stand then. I am trying to wean myself off from my Zoloft. I currently take 50 mg. The reason I take it is because of a natural tendency for despair. I get very negative about myself. With it I feel great. I just know it is said that these type of meds hinder weightloss. Can you suggest any natural alternatives. I have to go back to my DR. in December for a 3 month Hba1c. I will also ask him to test my thyroid to make sure my Levoxl is working enough. My body temp. is always 97.8 and hasn’t changed since beginning the Thyroid meds. After Thanksgiving I am going to try a Yeast cleansing diet to see if that is a cause of no weight loss. BethM — homepage.mac.com/bsmorr/Photo 1         297/291.5/165

Response:

Question:

As others have mentioned, I’d sure give Zoloft a try. I, too, have been on all of it. Until I started Zoloft, I had been in the hospital 5 times. It’s now been 7 years since my last admission and have only missed a handful of days from work because of depression. Zoloft changed my life. Just remember that when you first start the med, you may have some bothersome side affects but they do end(at least for me). Stick with it and you will find the results well-worth it. Best of luck. Emily

Response:

I noticed someone suggested Lamictal in one of the posts.  I am currently on Lamictal, along with Wellbutrin and Serax at night.  As for the Lamictal, I didn’t really notice much by itself at first, but the obvious thing I noticed about Lamictal is that I didn’t experience any side affects!  None. Now, when they started to add the others, of course I experienced some side affects.  They just increased my dose of Lamictal to 125mg, and again, no side effects.  The hope is that they just might have needed a little bit of a higher dose for it to kick in. So far, so good, but … well, it is probably way to soon. But again, the nice factor about Lamictal for me was that I experienced NO side affects.  What is the harm in trying if there are no side effects? There is a rash that you have to watch for, but that will just mean you have to stop… What is a rash that will go away compared to .. headaches, insomnia, being tired all the time, constipation, …. you get the idea.. Pamela

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Group: I have burned out everything.  For me, burnout on AD meds seems to be experiencing only awful side effects.  By the time I stop the med, I realize that it had only helped 5% of the depression I suffer from. Tricyclics (ineffective 10 years ago), Prozac, Effexor, Paxil, Manerix, ECTs, Nardil and Parnate (effective 10 years ago), Wellbutrin, Celexa: All let me down so to speak. Should I maybe try Tricyclics again??? Does anyone here (of course there is) have infinite wisdom on the newest AD meds that could help?  (refer to list above if confused).  My pdoc is a AD med specialist, lol. I’m feeling like there is no hope or relief from this life of hell for me. It is not like I have not tried.  Unmedicated at the moment has left me progressively turning to the fetus position.  I only have need to just disappear.  Consequently, I have a hubby screaming at me to TAKE DRUGS, STOP SCREWING AROUND WITH YOUR MEDS, GET IT TOGETHER AND COME AROUND.  YOU HAVE TO BE WORKING BEFORE YOUR UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE RUNS OUT (November) and there are no jobs in the community I live in.  My favorite is TRY HARDER TO GET BETTER.  Consequently, I just pull up my body armour and crawl into fetus position and withdraw.  Somehow, I don’t blame him.  He has been through hell and back, and is still here. Pdoc called me today after waiting 2 days for a return call from her.  She told me to not take any meds until appt. w/her in Sept.  If I’m becoming – got knows what – to call in 10 days.  Whatever, yes Dr.  At the moment I’m considering a large bottle of Vermouth or heading downtown to purchase some street weed.  But, I don’t have the energy and I’ll have to buy a lighter. Pathetic.  How many ASA with Codeine can I take before coma?  I just don’t want to impose on anyone, if you know what I mean.  And I quit smoking 4 years ago because I was worried about my health. Work…….well, I have a new problem.  Alnar (?) nerve, both arms, crashed and messed up my hands in the last two weeks.  Things don’t look good. The typing here may be looking ok now, but I have to really work hard at it. I’ve been typing for 32 years.  This problem is going to be difficult to explain when I apply for those Exec. Secretarial positions I’m qualified for.  lol.  Yes Sir, I can do more than just type! Cheers? Carrie

Response:

Thanks for mentioning it, but I had 8 ECTs while in hospital 1-1/2 years ago, over a 3-week period.  They just did not work.  I crashed in a bad way after the 8th. Carrie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Carrie, I am a newbie to the group and depression in general, but have you asked your pdoc about a course of ECT? Rob D Group: I have burned out everything.  For me, burnout on AD meds seems to be experiencing only awful side effects.  By the time I stop the med, I realize that it had only helped 5% of the depression I suffer from. Tricyclics (ineffective 10 years ago), Prozac, Effexor, Paxil, Manerix, ECTs, Nardil and Parnate (effective 10 years ago), Wellbutrin, Celexa: All let me down so to speak. Should I maybe try Tricyclics again??? Does anyone here (of course there is) have infinite wisdom on the newest AD meds that could help?  (refer to list above if confused).  My pdoc is a AD med specialist, lol. I’m feeling like there is no hope or relief from this life of hell for me. It is not like I have not tried.  Unmedicated at the moment has left me progressively turning to the fetus position.  I only have need to just disappear.  Consequently, I have a hubby screaming at me to TAKE DRUGS, STOP SCREWING AROUND WITH YOUR MEDS, GET IT TOGETHER AND COME AROUND.  YOU HAVE TO BE WORKING BEFORE YOUR UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE RUNS OUT (November) and there are no jobs in the community I live in.  My favorite is TRY HARDER TO GET BETTER.  Consequently, I just pull up my body armour and crawl into fetus position and withdraw.  Somehow, I don’t blame him.  He has been through hell and back, and is still here. Pdoc called me today after waiting 2 days for a return call from her. She told me to not take any meds until appt. w/her in Sept.  If I’m becoming – got knows what – to call in 10 days.  Whatever, yes Dr.  At the moment I’m considering a large bottle of Vermouth or heading downtown to purchase some street weed.  But, I don’t have the energy and I’ll have to buy a lighter. Pathetic.  How many ASA with Codeine can I take before coma?  I just don’t want to impose on anyone, if you know what I mean.  And I quit smoking 4 years ago because I was worried about my health. Work…….well, I have a new problem.  Alnar (?) nerve, both arms, crashed and messed up my hands in the last two weeks.  Things don’t look good. The typing here may be looking ok now, but I have to really work hard at it. I’ve been typing for 32 years.  This problem is going to be difficult to explain when I apply for those Exec. Secretarial positions I’m qualified for.  lol.  Yes Sir, I can do more than just type! Cheers? Carrie

Response:

Carrie, I am a newbie to the group and depression in general, but have you asked your pdoc about a course of ECT? Rob D – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Group: I have burned out everything.  For me, burnout on AD meds seems to be experiencing only awful side effects.  By the time I stop the med, I realize that it had only helped 5% of the depression I suffer from. Tricyclics (ineffective 10 years ago), Prozac, Effexor, Paxil, Manerix, ECTs, Nardil and Parnate (effective 10 years ago), Wellbutrin, Celexa:   All let me down so to speak. Should I maybe try Tricyclics again??? Does anyone here (of course there is) have infinite wisdom on the newest AD meds that could help?  (refer to list above if confused).  My pdoc is a AD med specialist, lol. I’m feeling like there is no hope or relief from this life of hell for me. It is not like I have not tried.  Unmedicated at the moment has left me progressively turning to the fetus position.  I only have need to just disappear.  Consequently, I have a hubby screaming at me to TAKE DRUGS, STOP SCREWING AROUND WITH YOUR MEDS, GET IT TOGETHER AND COME AROUND.  YOU HAVE TO BE WORKING BEFORE YOUR UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE RUNS OUT (November) and there are no jobs in the community I live in.  My favorite is TRY HARDER TO GET BETTER.  Consequently, I just pull up my body armour and crawl into fetus position and withdraw.  Somehow, I don’t blame him.  He has been through hell and back, and is still here. Pdoc called me today after waiting 2 days for a return call from her.  She told me to not take any meds until appt. w/her in Sept.  If I’m becoming – got knows what – to call in 10 days.  Whatever, yes Dr.  At the moment I’m considering a large bottle of Vermouth or heading downtown to purchase some street weed.  But, I don’t have the energy and I’ll have to buy a lighter. Pathetic.  How many ASA with Codeine can I take before coma?  I just don’t want to impose on anyone, if you know what I mean.  And I quit smoking 4 years ago because I was worried about my health. Work…….well, I have a new problem.  Alnar (?) nerve, both arms, crashed and messed up my hands in the last two weeks.  Things don’t look good.  The typing here may be looking ok now, but I have to really work hard at it. I’ve been typing for 32 years.  This problem is going to be difficult to explain when I apply for those Exec. Secretarial positions I’m qualified for.  lol.  Yes Sir, I can do more than just type! Cheers? Carrie

Response:

I wish I could help you : (((((((((((((((((Carie)))))))))))))))))

My bad Carrie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Group: I have burned out everything.  For me, burnout on AD meds seems to be experiencing only awful side effects.  By the time I stop the med, I realize that it had only helped 5% of the depression I suffer from. Tricyclics (ineffective 10 years ago), Prozac, Effexor, Paxil, Manerix, ECTs, Nardil and Parnate (effective 10 years ago), Wellbutrin, Celexa:   All let me down so to speak. Should I maybe try Tricyclics again??? Does anyone here (of course there is) have infinite wisdom on the newest AD meds that could help?  (refer to list above if confused).  My pdoc is a AD med specialist, lol. I’m feeling like there is no hope or relief from this life of hell for me. It is not like I have not tried.  Unmedicated at the moment has left me progressively turning to the fetus position.  I only have need to just disappear.  Consequently, I have a hubby screaming at me to TAKE DRUGS, STOP SCREWING AROUND WITH YOUR MEDS, GET IT TOGETHER AND COME AROUND.  YOU HAVE TO BE WORKING BEFORE YOUR UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE RUNS OUT (November) and there are no jobs in the community I live in.  My favorite is TRY HARDER TO GET BETTER.  Consequently, I just pull up my body armour and crawl into fetus position and withdraw.  Somehow, I don’t blame him.  He has been through hell and back, and is still here. Pdoc called me today after waiting 2 days for a return call from her.  She told me to not take any meds until appt. w/her in Sept.  If I’m becoming – got knows what – to call in 10 days.  Whatever, yes Dr.  At the moment I’m considering a large bottle of Vermouth or heading downtown to purchase some street weed.  But, I don’t have the energy and I’ll have to buy a lighter. Pathetic.  How many ASA with Codeine can I take before coma?  I just don’t want to impose on anyone, if you know what I mean.  And I quit smoking 4 years ago because I was worried about my health. Work…….well, I have a new problem.  Alnar (?) nerve, both arms, crashed and messed up my hands in the last two weeks.  Things don’t look good.  The typing here may be looking ok now, but I have to really work hard at it. I’ve been typing for 32 years.  This problem is going to be difficult to explain when I apply for those Exec. Secretarial positions I’m qualified for.  lol.  Yes Sir, I can do more than just type! Cheers? Carrie —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

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Response:

I wish I could help you : (((((((((((((((((Carie))))))))))))))))) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Group: I have burned out everything.  For me, burnout on AD meds seems to be experiencing only awful side effects.  By the time I stop the med, I realize that it had only helped 5% of the depression I suffer from. Tricyclics (ineffective 10 years ago), Prozac, Effexor, Paxil, Manerix, ECTs, Nardil and Parnate (effective 10 years ago), Wellbutrin, Celexa:   All let me down so to speak. Should I maybe try Tricyclics again??? Does anyone here (of course there is) have infinite wisdom on the newest AD meds that could help?  (refer to list above if confused).  My pdoc is a AD med specialist, lol. I’m feeling like there is no hope or relief from this life of hell for me. It is not like I have not tried.  Unmedicated at the moment has left me progressively turning to the fetus position.  I only have need to just disappear.  Consequently, I have a hubby screaming at me to TAKE DRUGS, STOP SCREWING AROUND WITH YOUR MEDS, GET IT TOGETHER AND COME AROUND.  YOU HAVE TO BE WORKING BEFORE YOUR UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE RUNS OUT (November) and there are no jobs in the community I live in.  My favorite is TRY HARDER TO GET BETTER.  Consequently, I just pull up my body armour and crawl into fetus position and withdraw.  Somehow, I don’t blame him.  He has been through hell and back, and is still here. Pdoc called me today after waiting 2 days for a return call from her.  She told me to not take any meds until appt. w/her in Sept.  If I’m becoming – got knows what – to call in 10 days.  Whatever, yes Dr.  At the moment I’m considering a large bottle of Vermouth or heading downtown to purchase some street weed.  But, I don’t have the energy and I’ll have to buy a lighter. Pathetic.  How many ASA with Codeine can I take before coma?  I just don’t want to impose on anyone, if you know what I mean.  And I quit smoking 4 years ago because I was worried about my health. Work…….well, I have a new problem.  Alnar (?) nerve, both arms, crashed and messed up my hands in the last two weeks.  Things don’t look good.  The typing here may be looking ok now, but I have to really work hard at it. I’ve been typing for 32 years.  This problem is going to be difficult to explain when I apply for those Exec. Secretarial positions I’m qualified for.  lol.  Yes Sir, I can do more than just type! Cheers? Carrie

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Response:

Cheers? Carrie I’ve read posts here about Zoloft and that was one I was going to inquire about.  thanks for the reminder. The abyss.  Thanks for giving me a word for that *feeling*.  Black hole is another great description.  Ah, wouldn’t want to give you any more pain! But, I may occasionally rant away.    I’ll pick some (non-controversial) issue and just pick it apart. Thanks Sharon Carrie )

Well, at least you’ve put a smiley face next to your name, I just started Remeron and it’s going very well for me. I’ve often wondered if people experience anti dep "burn out" after a length of time on one drug, which then means switching to another.  I’ve  plowed through a fair number of different anti deps.    My last successful one was dosage made me very dizzy.   I also took Celexa with the Effexor at times. I also like that word "abyss"…….it describes my past year’s depression recurrence exactly.  However, I also have some issues that eventually caused incredible anger, and everytime I had a setback (concerning the issues) I would have uncontrollable episodes of rage to the point where I was obsessed with revenge…..the kind that is associated with a knife.  So the Remeron kinda calmed me down, and also I’ve been on a regimen of Xanax, but am now ramping down on that. Carrie, maybe I misunderstood your post, but just why in the heck is your pdoc having you sit in limbo for awhile? Feel free to contact me if you need to rant…… controversial or otherwise. Jeanne – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

<< Tricyclics (ineffective 10 years ago), Prozac, Effexor, Paxil, Manerix, ECTs, Nardil and Parnate (effective 10 years ago), Wellbutrin, Celexa:   All let me down so to speak. Try an SSRI or Effexor augmented with an atypical anti-psychotic like Seroquel or Zyprexa. Can be very effective even in cases of non psychotic treatment resistant depression. Another thing you could try is lithium or lamictal augmentation of an antidepressant…some people swear by lithium augmentation and they arent bipolar in the least. Have you had your thyroid checked anytime in the last couple years? That could be causing med poopout, quite common in females. Should I maybe try Tricyclics again??

Nah, probably a waste of time if it was ineffective the first time around. Eric Steroids caused my depression…prednisone should be used conservatively http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FactsAndFallaciesOfDepression MIBS (Minimally Invasive Brain Stimulation) http://www.musc.edu/psychiatry/fnrd/tms.htm

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Group: I have burned out everything.  For me, burnout on AD meds seems to be experiencing only awful side effects.  By the time I stop the med, I realize that it had only helped 5% of the depression I suffer from. Tricyclics (ineffective 10 years ago), Prozac, Effexor, Paxil, Manerix, ECTs, Nardil and Parnate (effective 10 years ago), Wellbutrin, Celexa: All let me down so to speak. Should I maybe try Tricyclics again??? Does anyone here (of course there is) have infinite wisdom on the newest AD meds that could help?  (refer to list above if confused).  My pdoc is a AD med specialist, lol. I’m feeling like there is no hope or relief from this life of hell for me. It is not like I have not tried.  Unmedicated at the moment has left me progressively turning to the fetus position.  I only have need to just disappear.  Consequently, I have a hubby screaming at me to TAKE DRUGS, STOP SCREWING AROUND WITH YOUR MEDS, GET IT TOGETHER AND COME AROUND.  YOU HAVE TO BE WORKING BEFORE YOUR UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE RUNS OUT (November) and there are no jobs in the community I live in.  My favorite is TRY HARDER TO GET BETTER.  Consequently, I just pull up my body armour and crawl into fetus position and withdraw.  Somehow, I don’t blame him.  He has been through hell and back, and is still here. Pdoc called me today after waiting 2 days for a return call from her. She told me to not take any meds until appt. w/her in Sept.  If I’m becoming – got knows what – to call in 10 days.  Whatever, yes Dr.  At the moment I’m considering a large bottle of Vermouth or heading downtown to purchase some street weed.  But, I don’t have the energy and I’ll have to buy a lighter. Pathetic.  How many ASA with Codeine can I take before coma?  I just don’t want to impose on anyone, if you know what I mean.  And I quit smoking 4 years ago because I was worried about my health. Work…….well, I have a new problem.  Alnar (?) nerve, both arms, crashed and messed up my hands in the last two weeks.  Things don’t look good. The typing here may be looking ok now, but I have to really work hard at it. I’ve been typing for 32 years.  This problem is going to be difficult to explain when I apply for those Exec. Secretarial positions I’m qualified for.  lol.  Yes Sir, I can do more than just type! Cheers? Carrie Wow.. Sounds like the shit is hitting the fan, so sorry!

        Yea, it does come to think of it.  Life a a total stress fracture right now. Have you tried Zoloft? It "Prozacian" (technical, eh?), it just acts on a different receptor. It pooped on me but worked well, and fast. Tricyclics _may_ work, but if they didn’t work the first time around, I wouldn’t bet the farm on them. I’m sure you know hubby just doesn’t understand, but it would be nice if they did. Tell him how you feel when he says things like that. I’m not trying to start WW III, but it may help. And I know it’s hard, but try not to feel you’re imposing. Please consider I’m divorced before trying it.

I’ve read posts here about Zoloft and that was one I was going to inquire about.  thanks for the reminder. <LectureDO stay in touch with your pdoc, she may have plans for a new med, and taking something could "mess up THE plan". If you’re feeling, well, that abyss feeling, don’t hesitate to call her.</end lecture Wish I could say something that would take some pain away! Write if you need to rant. Hugs, Sharon

The abyss.  Thanks for giving me a word for that *feeling*.  Black hole is another great description.  Ah, wouldn’t want to give you any more pain! But, I may occasionally rant away.    I’ll pick some (non-controversial) issue and just pick it apart. Thanks Sharon Carrie )

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Group: I have burned out everything.  For me, burnout on AD meds seems to be experiencing only awful side effects.  By the time I stop the med, I realize that it had only helped 5% of the depression I suffer from. Tricyclics (ineffective 10 years ago), Prozac, Effexor, Paxil, Manerix, ECTs, Nardil and Parnate (effective 10 years ago), Wellbutrin, Celexa: All let me down so to speak. Should I maybe try Tricyclics again??? Does anyone here (of course there is) have infinite wisdom on the newest AD meds that could help?  (refer to list above if confused).  My pdoc is a AD med specialist, lol. I’m feeling like there is no hope or relief from this life of hell for me. It is not like I have not tried.  Unmedicated at the moment has left me progressively turning to the fetus position.  I only have need to just disappear.  Consequently, I have a hubby screaming at me to TAKE DRUGS, STOP SCREWING AROUND WITH YOUR MEDS, GET IT TOGETHER AND COME AROUND.  YOU HAVE TO BE WORKING BEFORE YOUR UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE RUNS OUT (November) and there are no jobs in the community I live in.  My favorite is TRY HARDER TO GET BETTER.  Consequently, I just pull up my body armour and crawl into fetus position and withdraw.  Somehow, I don’t blame him.  He has been through hell and back, and is still here. Pdoc called me today after waiting 2 days for a return call from her. She told me to not take any meds until appt. w/her in Sept.  If I’m becoming – got knows what – to call in 10 days.  Whatever, yes Dr.  At the moment I’m considering a large bottle of Vermouth or heading downtown to purchase some street weed.  But, I don’t have the energy and I’ll have to buy a lighter. Pathetic.  How many ASA with Codeine can I take before coma?  I just don’t want to impose on anyone, if you know what I mean.  And I quit smoking 4 years ago because I was worried about my health. Work…….well, I have a new problem.  Alnar (?) nerve, both arms, crashed and messed up my hands in the last two weeks.  Things don’t look good. The typing here may be looking ok now, but I have to really work hard at it. I’ve been typing for 32 years.  This problem is going to be difficult to explain when I apply for those Exec. Secretarial positions I’m qualified for.  lol.  Yes Sir, I can do more than just type! Cheers? Carrie Have you tried desipramine?  I haven’t see you post that you tried that one….it’s worked really well for me.  just a thought….

No, I’ve not desipramine.  But I will be print off suggestions made here and talking to the pdoc about meds. Ulnar nerve entrapment at the elbow….I have that in my left arm…they can transpose the nerve to the front of the elbow to take the pressure off the nerve and eliminate the numbness.  I haven’t had the surgery yet, I’m trying not  to have it done, I just compensate for not feeling in those fingers……   Get to a neuro if you haven’t and have the ncv done on both arms and find out exactly where the compression is.  They can splint both arms with a brace that has a little air bladder that takes pressure off the ulnar nerve and hopefully some of the numbness goes away..but you need to see a neuro…typing is hard when you can’t feel all your fingers….. Deborah

wow, amazing!  That is exactly what it is.  I’ve got a neuro appt in Oct. I’ve also got some spinal X-ray to do also.  Some thought that my back plays an ugly part.  It will still be a while before any resolution to this little cutie is fixed ) thanks Deborah! Carrie

Response:

Group: I have burned out everything.  For me, burnout on AD meds seems to be experiencing only awful side effects.  By the time I stop the med, I realize that it had only helped 5% of the depression I suffer from. Tricyclics (ineffective 10 years ago), Prozac, Effexor, Paxil, Manerix, ECTs, Nardil and Parnate (effective 10 years ago), Wellbutrin, Celexa:   All let me down so to speak. Should I maybe try Tricyclics again??? Does anyone here (of course there is) have infinite wisdom on the newest AD meds that could help?  (refer to list above if confused).  My pdoc is a AD med specialist, lol. I’m feeling like there is no hope or relief from this life of hell for me. It is not like I have not tried.  Unmedicated at the moment has left me progressively turning to the fetus position.  I only have need to just disappear.  Consequently, I have a hubby screaming at me to TAKE DRUGS, STOP SCREWING AROUND WITH YOUR MEDS, GET IT TOGETHER AND COME AROUND.  YOU HAVE TO BE WORKING BEFORE YOUR UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE RUNS OUT (November) and there are no jobs in the community I live in.  My favorite is TRY HARDER TO GET BETTER.  Consequently, I just pull up my body armour and crawl into fetus position and withdraw.  Somehow, I don’t blame him.  He has been through hell and back, and is still here. Pdoc called me today after waiting 2 days for a return call from her.  She told me to not take any meds until appt. w/her in Sept.  If I’m becoming – got knows what – to call in 10 days.  Whatever, yes Dr.  At the moment I’m considering a large bottle of Vermouth or heading downtown to purchase some street weed.  But, I don’t have the energy and I’ll have to buy a lighter. Pathetic.  How many ASA with Codeine can I take before coma?  I just don’t want to impose on anyone, if you know what I mean.  And I quit smoking 4 years ago because I was worried about my health. Work…….well, I have a new problem.  Alnar (?) nerve, both arms, crashed and messed up my hands in the last two weeks.  Things don’t look good.  The typing here may be looking ok now, but I have to really work hard at it. I’ve been typing for 32 years.  This problem is going to be difficult to explain when I apply for those Exec. Secretarial positions I’m qualified for.  lol.  Yes Sir, I can do more than just type! Cheers? Carrie

Response:

Question:

Hi Sandra, I’m glad you’ve found something that works to help the problem.  Originally I started supplementing my daughter with the fish oil capsules because of the study that noted benefits for people with bipolar disorder (she was diagnosed at age and we didn’t get any behavioral improvements, but her handwriting went from illegible to legible over a few weeks.  For that benefit alone we’ve continued it.  The behavior has improved with age and hard work on her part (as well as the school’s part and ours).  At her IEP review this past week we all agreed that she no longer meets the criteria, and there was much rejoicing.  Not bad in light of the bipolar disorder. Do you take any non dietary inclusive fat supplements like fish oil or CLA? If not I’d be willing to bet Lee could steer you towards some helpful choices. Take care, Carmen

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Sandra, May I ask what causes your motor control problem?  My daughter has to take an antineuroleptic drug which causes a noticeable loss of fine motor control (especially in handwriting) that was greatly ameliorated by fish oil capsules (without counteracting the Neurontin’s positive side effects). Take care, Carmen Benign Essential Tremor, which has gotten progressively worse over the years, with some attending motor control problems that seem like, but are not, symptoms of multiple sclerosis. Basically it’s a  case of "these are the symptoms you have, but we can’t say what you have for sure." They went as far as diagnosing my niece with MS, but have backed off that diagnosis as the years have gone by. The use of high amounts of both water and fat have helped the problem a lot. Sandra I weighed in at 250 this morning, no surprise after a few days of illness, during which I took a carb break again, and my TOM. Two interesting things: My motor control lessened again. I’m having trouble using my mouse this morning. Last week the motor control was back after two days of going back to induction levels of carbs. But the carb break gave me the energy to continue performing through my illness this weekend. When the Renaissance festival is over, I’m going back to a two week induction period. For the summer, I am going to start charting everything, regarding intake and exercise, and set some limits to see if I can change my loss rate from 1 pound a week to two, or at least increase my inch loss a bit. I would love to be 235 by my birthday, Aug. 28. That would mean I would look about as I did when I reached my smallest size in 20 years, eight years ago. More later. Have a good week, everyone. Sandra lc since 1/15/01 four months gone! 40 pounds gone! 290/250/165

Response:

Benign Essential Tremor, which has gotten progressively worse over the years, with some attending motor control problems that seem like, but are not, symptoms of multiple sclerosis. Basically it’s a  case of "these are the symptoms you have, but we can’t say what you have for sure." They went as far as diagnosing my niece with MS, but have backed off that diagnosis as the years have gone by.

My father has Benign Essential Tremor – it started showing when he was 18.   Mostly, it affects his hands and fine motor movements, but since he’s been in his 60s, I’ve noticed that his head shakes just a tiny bit, too. For him, it’s an annoyance and an occasional frustration.  By profession, he’s a stamp dealer, so he’s sometimes got a problem holding his tongs steady while examining a stamp.   He likes soup, but he has a very hard time holding the spoon still, so he usually passes on it unless it’s in a mug he can hold with his whole hand.   I got him a special spoon – but he didn’t care for it.  I still have it – I can send it to you, if you’d like.  It’s a bulky thing, but it has a velcro strap that fits over the hand, and the bowl stays level no matter what your fingers or hand does.  (Read more about it at: http://www.steadyproducts.com/) We work around some of the problems – at the office, I often write checks to people because his handwriting is getty shaky.  At Starbucks, the kids there (what a great bunch they are <g) bring him his coffee to his table, and they put it in a bigger mug for him (a tall in a grande cup).  We never ask him to pour coffee (although, admittedly, he’s not the parent who accidentally spilled a mugful on me <g). He’s very open about it – and if he sees you looking at his hands, he’ll bring it up first.  Because he *is* in his mid-60s, a lot of people mistake it for Parkinson’s – but it’s actually the opposite of it.  With Parkinson’s you can’t hold your empty hand steady, but if you grab something, it won’t move.  With Benign Essential Tremor, Dad can hold his hands steady as a rock, but if he picks up something, it’s very shaky. It does run through that side of the family – Dad, a couple of cousins – even my ex-brother whom I haven’t talked to him in years, but I saw him on "Jeopardy!" a few months ago, and boy, he was just one big twitch. I found a paper written by two mechanical engineers who had created a device called "a wearable tremor-suppression orthosis," and I wrote to them, but never heard anything back.  If you want to read the paper:         http://www.vard.org/jour/98/35/4/kotov354.htm If I ever stumble across anything else, I’ll let you know. Take care and be well! Myra

Response:

Hi Sandra, May I ask what causes your motor control problem?  My daughter has to take an antineuroleptic drug which causes a noticeable loss of fine motor control (especially in handwriting) that was greatly ameliorated by fish oil capsules (without counteracting the Neurontin’s positive side effects). Take care, Carmen

Benign Essential Tremor, which has gotten progressively worse over the years, with some attending motor control problems that seem like, but are not, symptoms of multiple sclerosis. Basically it’s a  case of "these are the symptoms you have, but we can’t say what you have for sure." They went as far as diagnosing my niece with MS, but have backed off that diagnosis as the years have gone by. The use of high amounts of both water and fat have helped the problem a lot. Sandra – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I weighed in at 250 this morning, no surprise after a few days of illness, during which I took a carb break again, and my TOM. Two interesting things: My motor control lessened again. I’m having trouble using my mouse this morning. Last week the motor control was back after two days of going back to induction levels of carbs. But the carb break gave me the energy to continue performing through my illness this weekend. When the Renaissance festival is over, I’m going back to a two week induction period. For the summer, I am going to start charting everything, regarding intake and exercise, and set some limits to see if I can change my loss rate from 1 pound a week to two, or at least increase my inch loss a bit. I would love to be 235 by my birthday, Aug. 28. That would mean I would look about as I did when I reached my smallest size in 20 years, eight years ago. More later. Have a good week, everyone. Sandra lc since 1/15/01 four months gone! 40 pounds gone! 290/250/165

Response:

I weighed in at 250 this morning, no surprise after a few days of illness, during which I took a carb break again, and my TOM. Two interesting things: My motor control lessened again. I’m having trouble using my mouse this morning. Last week the motor control was back after two days of going back to induction levels of carbs. But the carb break gave me the energy to continue performing through my illness this weekend. When the Renaissance festival is over, I’m going back to a two week induction period. For the summer, I am going to start charting everything, regarding intake and exercise, and set some limits to see if I can change my loss rate from 1 pound a week to two, or at least increase my inch loss a bit. I would love to be 235 by my birthday, Aug. 28. That would mean I would look about as I did when I reached my smallest size in 20 years, eight years ago. More later. Have a good week, everyone. Sandra lc since 1/15/01 four months gone! 40 pounds gone! 290/250/165

Response:

Hi Sandra, May I ask what causes your motor control problem?  My daughter has to take an antineuroleptic drug which causes a noticeable loss of fine motor control (especially in handwriting) that was greatly ameliorated by fish oil capsules (without counteracting the Neurontin’s positive side effects). Take care, Carmen

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I weighed in at 250 this morning, no surprise after a few days of illness, during which I took a carb break again, and my TOM. Two interesting things: My motor control lessened again. I’m having trouble using my mouse this morning. Last week the motor control was back after two days of going back to induction levels of carbs. But the carb break gave me the energy to continue performing through my illness this weekend. When the Renaissance festival is over, I’m going back to a two week induction period. For the summer, I am going to start charting everything, regarding intake and exercise, and set some limits to see if I can change my loss rate from 1 pound a week to two, or at least increase my inch loss a bit. I would love to be 235 by my birthday, Aug. 28. That would mean I would look about as I did when I reached my smallest size in 20 years, eight years ago. More later. Have a good week, everyone. Sandra lc since 1/15/01 four months gone! 40 pounds gone! 290/250/165

Response:

Question:

Hi Kevin, I must have tried a "million" antidepressants – none of which helped that I could tell.  About 5 years ago, I changed to Effexor and I definately can tell it has helped.  I stopped taking it at one time because my weight dropped too low for my body to handle the medication and boy was my mood terrible.  It was scarey.  Luckily I am much better now and restarted it.  I take 150mg XR.  I don’t notice any side effects although when I started it I kind of felt like I was on a boat for the first week.  (Luckily I don’t get seasick LOL!  Anyway it was just kind of wierd but didn’t really bother me.) The one problem I’ve found is if I forget to take it I sometimes end up with bad headahes.  Actually in some ways this is a good thing because I hate headaches and thus I am more likely to remeber to take my meds and less likely to give in to my ED thoughts that tell me to NOT take them. I know one of the things you (& your doctor) need to do when you first start this medication is a regular monitoring of your bloodpressure because it can cause high bloodpressure.  This side effect will either happen or it won’t so you only have to do this close monitoring in the beginning.  (Effexor is a seratonin reuptake inhibitor (SSRI) as well as a norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor.  The other drug that is in it’s class is Wellbutrin.) Anyway, that’s my thoughts. Many hugs, Kathryn K. — Kathryn K.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m concerned that Zoloft isn’t helping me as much as it used to.  I am up to past the usual maximum dosage (250mg).  My psychiatrist mentioned the last time I saw him that Effexor would likely be the next medication we would try. I’m interested in any experiences with Effexor (good or bad) that people may have had, and how you transitioned from any previous medication to Effexor. I am hoping that the dosage of Zoloft can be decreased as Effexor is added. I realize that meds work differently for different people.  Any input will be used for discussion with my psychiatrist and will help me ask the right questions. Thank you, Kevin

Response:

Hey Kevin– I was on Zoloft until it stopped working.  Now I take Effexor XR twice a day.  I think it’s a good med., as someone else mentioned, it works two ways on us.  I can use all the help I can get! Good luck! Lynette

Response:

kevin i have never personally taken effexor but iknow people who have and they did very well on it. shell

Response:

Kevin, I took Effexor for quite some time (got changed to Celexa on a request… long story) and it worked really well. Most of those in that drug family (Prozac, Effexor, Celexa, etc.) work pretty much the same, but some can work better for you for whatever reason. Paxil, however, did nothing for me. Lori

Response:

i’ve been on both the XR form as well as the plain form.  both times i’ve found it one of the few antidepressants that helped me.  i haven’t been as lucky with side effects-i’ve had some nasty ones especially on the plain effexor.  they disappeared after my body adjused to it.  i don’t know if anyone is still using the plain vs the XR. i’m on 225 and so far so good.

Response:

I am on 225 mg of Effexor. I find it very helpful for depression– the only med that has worked so far! It works on seratonin, as well as another chemical in the brain (forgot which). I had no side effects other than feeling a bit more tired than usual at first… good luck! Love, Danielle

Response:

hi kevin!  i switched to effexor when the straight SSRI’s stopped working for me.   i have been really pleased with it, it’s helped a lot with the obsession and anxiety, as well as depression. pluses for me, once i get on it and acclimated – no real side effects (not sedating, no dry mouth, no s*xual side effects) minus – it’s tough (for me) to get on and off, it makes me really nauseous for the first week or so, even titrating up from a low dose, but i keep reminding myself that once i get through that, it’s fine. it’s hard to get off too, but i am managing. overall, i’ve had a good experience with it! – dolphin – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m concerned that Zoloft isn’t helping me as much as it used to.  I am up to past the usual maximum dosage (250mg).  My psychiatrist mentioned the last time I saw him that Effexor would likely be the next medication we would try. I’m interested in any experiences with Effexor (good or bad) that people may have had, and how you transitioned from any previous medication to Effexor. I am hoping that the dosage of Zoloft can be decreased as Effexor is added. I realize that meds work differently for different people.  Any input will be used for discussion with my psychiatrist and will help me ask the right questions. Thank you, Kevin

Before you buy.

Response:

I’m concerned that Zoloft isn’t helping me as much as it used to.  I am up to past the usual maximum dosage (250mg).  My psychiatrist mentioned the last time I saw him that Effexor would likely be the next medication we would try. I’m interested in any experiences with Effexor (good or bad) that people may have had, and how you transitioned from any previous medication to Effexor. I am hoping that the dosage of Zoloft can be decreased as Effexor is added. I realize that meds work differently for different people.  Any input will be used for discussion with my psychiatrist and will help me ask the right questions. Thank you, Kevin

Response:

I found Effexor to be more helpful overall than other anti-depressents I took. However, as my doctor upped the dose I began to feel more and more tired, so much so that I had to go off it.  I’m not sure how common that is, but I thought I’d throw in my experience.  Good luck Janelle – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I’m concerned that Zoloft isn’t helping me as much as it used to.  I am up to past the usual maximum dosage (250mg).  My psychiatrist mentioned the last time I saw him that Effexor would likely be the next medication we would try. I’m interested in any experiences with Effexor (good or bad) that people may have had, and how you transitioned from any previous medication to Effexor. I am hoping that the dosage of Zoloft can be decreased as Effexor is added. I realize that meds work differently for different people.  Any input will be used for discussion with my psychiatrist and will help me ask the right questions. Thank you, Kevin

Response:

hi kevin, i went from celexa to effexor and it *was* better as far as the side effects. i still experienced dry mouth and nausea and really bad insomnia.  as usual, these are the typical side effects.  [snip]

Most of those go away quickly. I never had any side effects on SSRI antidepressants. Lori

Response:

hi kevin, i went from celexa to effexor and it *was* better as far as the side effects. i still experienced dry mouth and nausea and really bad insomnia.  as usual, these are the typical side effects.  i stayed on it for 3 months – - it scares me to take meds because i feel so numbed.  i took both Rx for depression and self-injury, primarily.  i hope it is a good move for you kevin.  take care and let us know how your appointment goes : )

Response:

Thanks everyone for sharing your experiences, it will help me talk to my doctor tomorrow and ask some good questions. Meds work differently for different people, so my experience may vary. I may keep a journal each day too as I switch to the new med, to help monitor my moods.

That’s a really good idea.  I followed this thread with interest because I’m about to go down the same path, have yet to make the psych appointment but I’m going to this week on the advice of my therapist. The only other experience I’ve had with meds was very briefly with Prozac a few years ago, but I didn’t like the side effects. I think I’ll use your journal idea, too. Betsy

Response:

My psychiatrist mentioned the last time I saw him that Effexor would likely be the next medication we would try. Any input will be used for discussion with my psychiatrist and will help me ask the right questions.

Thanks everyone for sharing your experiences, it will help me talk to my doctor tomorrow and ask some good questions.  It seems like the experiences were mostly positive, but I noted drowsiness at higher dosages and someone in e-mail mentioned a rebound effect so I’ll ask about those things. Meds work differently for different people, so my experience may vary. It’s scary for me to switch meds so I will do all I can to ensure I do my part to help the psychiatrist help me. I may keep a journal each day too as I switch to the new med, to help monitor my moods. Kevin

Response:

The only big problem I have with it is, when I accidentally skip a dose, I go through a really bad withdrawal.  Not fun!  

I just started on Effexor, too.  Just wondering — what kind of bad withdrawal when you skip a dose? Also, someone else had mentioned that you get side effects when you go off it. What are they? Thanks, Paw

Response:

Hey Kevin!  I am on Effexor XR.  At first I took the plain pill version.  It helped a bit, but then stopped working quite quickly.  So my psychiatrist at the time switched me to the XR form!  It has helped me a lot. Ears

Update — I started on Effexor XR last week.  There will be about a 20-day overlap between gradually reducing Zoloft and increasing Effexor. All of your input helped — thank you! Kevin

Response:

Hey Kevin!  I am on Effexor XR.  At first I took the plain pill version.  It helped a bit, but then stopped working quite quickly.  So my psychiatrist at the time switched me to the XR form!  It has helped me a lot.  I have not had any side affects.  The only big problem I have with it is, when I accidentally skip a dose, I go through a really bad withdrawal.  Not fun!  But as long as I take it, it’s been an awesome help!  I’ve tried other antidepressants with no luck.  But luckily, gratefully Effexor XR is doing a good job!!!  :O) Ears There can be no transforming of darkness into light and of apathy into movement without emotion. – Carl Jung   The voyage of discovery lies not in finding new landscapes but in having new eyes. – Marcel Proust

Response:

However, as my doctor upped the dose I began to feel more and more tired, so much so that I had to go off it.  I’m not sure how common that is, but I thought I’d throw in my experience.  Good luck

It caused me drowsiness also, but mainly at the beginning. I think it’s listed as one of the side-effects.  I don’t think I had any others that particularly stood out…. Hope it works out for you. Jennifer

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oh — I should have mentioned that I take the XR form…about 150 mg currently.  (Plus Depakote, a mood stabilizer)

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One thing I can definitely say: Don’t go OFF the stuff too fast! You will have many physical side-effects. (Then again, this was my experience with Paxil, too.) I would say that overall, Effexor helped. I wish I could give more details, but it’s difficult for me to separate out what is due to what. It seemed like I was better able to deal with things when I *was* on it, as opposed to when I wasn’t, though….

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Meds work differently for different people, so my experience may vary. It’s scary for me to switch meds so I will do all I can to ensure I do my part to help the psychiatrist help me.

I hear you. And that is so very true how some meds work for others and differently on each other. I may keep a journal each day too as I switch to the new med, to help monitor my moods.

That is a super idea! Good luck and please let us know how the Effexor seems to be working. And if you have any questions about it, feel free to E-mail me (my address is now correct <grin). Lori

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Effexor has never made me tired.  In fact, because of sleep problems, my dr. told me to take me 2 doses early in the day, as it can keep some alert. Once again, everyone has different experiences! Lynette

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isn’t it weird?  it’s like ect with from within =)  first time it happened-i had no clue.  i told my pdoc and he looked at me strangely.  now he’s heard that a lot.  it feels about the same as it did once when i managed somehow to plug a fan and my thumb into a wall socket.  don’t miss a dose.

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if i skip a dose, i get what feels like electrical shocks.  it isn’t nearly as much of a problem as it was with the plain effexor.

Lea, you said the magic words!!!!!  I have this feeling on the meds that i am taking currently!  I feel almost not human sometimes…like I’m a frankenstein in progress or something.   becca

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I just started on Effexor, too.  Just wondering — what kind of bad withdrawal when you skip a dose?

For me, I get way more depressed, my heart feels as though it’s skipping a beat & beating way to fast…I feel really shaky, and dizzy, I get a really bad headache/miagrane… Of course meds can act differently with different people, because are bodies are not the same. This only happens if I skip a dose.  I have no side affects in taking it… Ears There can be no transforming of darkness into light and of apathy into movement without emotion. – Carl Jung   The voyage of discovery lies not in finding new landscapes but in having new eyes. – Marcel Proust

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if i skip a dose, i get what feels like electrical shocks.  it isn’t nearly as much of a problem as it was with the plain effexor. going on it-well i was lucky enough to not be able to urinate.  that was an embarrassing er visit let me tell you.  that was not quite as bad on the XR form as it was on the plain.  i ended up having to self cath for almost a month the first time i went on effexor but it worked quickly and well for me so i kept on taking it. getting off effexor was a killler.  the pdoc treating me tapered me off way too fast and i ended up on a medical unit b/c i slept 24/7, threw up everything i ate or drank (not purposely) and had a killer headache.  i went back on effexor a couple of years later and even knowing  how hard it was to get off-i still chose to take it again.

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Question:

Well excuseeee me for having a fucking rotten life.

Aw Lee…..you ain’t alone!  If you don’t like them, don’t read them.

The wisest philosophy – seems a bit too complex for some. This is a support group for gods sake.  WE ARE TRYING TO FEEL NORMAL!!!

YEAH YEAH!!!  Well, as best we can! Lee ::kicks the damn computer::

Ooooo..don’t do THAT…we might lose ya for another week!  :) Gwen

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anyone else have a web tv . other than this group what do you look at anne in sf

Hi Anne, You might want to go into TALK City, there are alot of support chat groups and other topics. But watch out there are some chat rooms that you really don’t want to venture into. John

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reading all these messages is depressing.  I here a lot of pain and grief

and I hope there’s more people out there who are actually feeling

normal. Well excuseeee me for having a fucking rotten life.  If you don’t like them, don’t read them.  This is a support group for gods sake.  WE ARE TRYING TO FEEL NORMAL!!! Lee ::kicks the damn computer:: "Life sucks and then you die" but in the mean time, "shit happens" so "deal with it" and "go with the flow" because "life is too important to be taken seriously".

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I’m 19 years old and found myself the other day talking to a psychiatrist. The next thing I know, I’m popping in Zoloft pills.

What was your diagnosis to be put on Zoloft?     The very next day, walking to class, I felt so weird.  My hands were more     ultra clammy, my feet were clammy, my pits were sweating, and I     didn’t have a nauseaous attack luckily, but I had a nausea sensation all that    morning just enough to tick me off.

Sounds like normal side effects when starting an SRI, tho normal seems an odd word to use in this case. mmmm.  reading all these messages is depressing.  I here a lot of pain and grief and I hope there’s more people out there who are actually feeling normal.

I see many positive posts here.  Hope you are seeing those as well. How long are the Zoloft side effects suppose to remain?  I feel like I’m wired up, but tired.

Typically….2 – 6 weeks, but they should lessen dramatically in 2 if the med is going to work for you.  There is no one answer for every person.  Do talk to your doc if you need some reassurance or something to help with the increased anxiety Zoloft sometimes causes in the beginning. Gwen

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anyone else have a web tv . other than this group what do you look at anne in sf

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im using my real name now , i dont know why lady told me to use coded name sfannie

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this is anne . i know i have the web and  am relitavely new. where do other people go to check about  anxiety .  please give  on line address in blue. i dont know if you know what i mean by blue but that means i can click it on without having to type an address . i have a hard time getting around  on line  thanks

My web page is listed below, and might be "in blue" to you… I guess it depends on your mail reader and its set-up.  In any case, I have a references page that lists some other web pages I have found useful, and books, etc.  Let me know if you find it useful. Snit Snit’s Anxiety Suggestions: http://www.azstarnet.com/~snit/anxiety.html Ramblings about my journey toward recovery.  

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(lynn) writes: anyone else have a web tv . other than this group what do you look at anne in sf

No, I don’t. It sounds cool. i’m a tv addict, anne. So i watch lots of different shows. my favorites include: Ally McBeal, Seinfeld, Rosie O’Donnell, Oprah, NYPD Blue, Homicide: Life on the Streets, ER, Law and Order, Larry Sanders, Dennis Miller. I could go on but it’s embarrassing how addicted I am. These tv people are often characters who’s company I prefer to Real people. Not healthy, I know. But I rationalize it that it’s a healthier addiction than alcohol or cocaine. Maybe not. It keeps me isolated. Helps keep me isolated. But now I’m dating and getting out more. Tell us about Web tv. Is it really great? do you have picture in picture? WRITER/CATCH MY TRAIN OF THOUGHT "You can’t have everything. Where would you put it?" (Steven Wright)

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I’m 19 years old and found myself the other day talking to a psychiatrist. The next thing I know, I’m popping in Zoloft pills.      The very next day, walking to class, I felt so weird.  My hands were more      ultra clammy, my feet were clammy, my pits were sweating, and I      didn’t have a nauseaous attack luckily, but I had a nausea sensation all that     morning just enough to tick me off. mmmm.  reading all these messages is depressing.  I here a lot of pain and grief and I hope there’s more people out there who are actually feeling normal. How long are the Zoloft side effects suppose to remain?  I feel like I’m wired up, but tired.

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this is anne . i know i have the web and  am relitavely new. where do other people go to check about  anxiety .  please give  on line address in blue. i dont know if you know what i mean by blue but that means i can click it on without having to type an address . i have a hard time getting around  on line  thanks

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Question:

You are right: you are best judge of what your body is up to. I now insist my doctor let me titrate. I leave each session with an upper dose I cannot exceed. There is also a suggested rate of increase I should not exceed (fat chance). Then I increase at the rate which is comfortable for me. (Reverse holds true for going off meds.) I note you’ve been on the new stuff only. Is there a reason you haven’t tried tricyclics or MAOIs? Some people report mircles from them, when the new SSRIs and variation are unsuccessful. Good luck. Stuck

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Well…..I’ve tried eight AD’s …..First was zoloft..did that for 8 months, and for a time added trazodone along with it.  It worked so-so…. Next was paxil…did that for about 3 months.  I didn’t have energy to do much of anything.  The withdrawl was 2 weeks of misery.   Next I went without anything for about 2 months.  Signed up for a 10 week self esteem class which used a workbook on Cognitive Behavioral Therapy.  I felt worse about myself at the end than I did when I started.   Then I tried prozac for 4 months….helped some (any improvement was better than I was).  Started having significant side effects after the dose went beyond 50mg.  Started feeling more depressed as the dose increased. Started effexor…almost stopped it cuz I felt so yucky, but I think it was due to coming off the prozac.  Effexor worked real well for me for about 15 months.  Added wellbutrin for a time, supposedly to help the sexual dysfunction, but it didn’t help. **SOAP BOX TIME** I really don’t think that doctors who work in the field of prescribing antidepressant medications fully appreciate how powerful these drugs are, and how strongly they affect the body.  My doctor, for instance, tends to believe that you can just taper a person (me) off one drug for a week or so and add a new drug at the same time or immediately thereafter, and everything will be hunky dory.  WRONG!!!!  As far as I am concerned, there is always some sort of withdrawl the body goes through when stopping one antidepressant, even if you start another at the same time.  I have gone through this a number of times, and I hope I have been instrumental in helping my doctor learn more about this.  Still, there is that transition period where my life sucks even more when I have changed meds. **END OF SOAP BOX** Anyway, coming off the prozac made it seem like the effexor was giving me a bad reaction at first, but I hung in and after about a week things were ok.   After about 15 months, I was feeling sort of down, more depressed than I had been in a while.  I was also feeling "chemicalized" and kind of wanted to stop.  My pdoc was gonna have me start serzone, but I tapered off the effexor (again with a two week withdrawl) and stopped. So, I then went 3 months taking St. John’s Wort.  It helped some, but I gradually sank down badly again, and when work took a stressful turn, I went down fast.  Back to Depression City. Then I took serzone for 4 months.  It is supposed to make most people a little drowsy, but it had the opposite effect on me.  I felt wired.  It leveled out a bit over time, but during this period I did not sleep very soundly.  It was just moderately effective for the depression. At the beginning of february I started remeron.  Again, in changing meds, I had the usual nausea and stuff associated with withdrawl, but man o man that remeron!! It was like Night of the Living Dead!!  I slept HARD for the 3 weeks I took that stuff.  Supposedly the higher the dose, the more that symptom of sleepiness goes away, but I was still a space cadet even after increasing the dose. So I practically begged my pdoc to let me go back on effexor, which I started again this week.  Right now I’m going through the remeron withdrawls, nausea, diarhea and such, but I feel human again. **THEORY** I believe in my case, having taken antidepressants off and on now for over 3 years, that whatever my depression is, drugs only help it to a moderate degree.  It has been my experience that continually increasing the dosage yields diminishing returns.  It does appear, at least at this time in my life, that I need the help of the antidepressants to handle life.  I am working in other ways on "handling life," and perhaps someday I will obtain some results that will make it unnecessary to take antidepressants. I really don’t know.   But, I think I do best if I take the lowest dose that gives any decent effect. And, I am beginning to believe that my system needs a periodic chemical free period.  So my plan at this point is to take the lowest dose of effexor that will stabilize my mood, which from past experience I think is either 150mg or 225mg.  I think that I will also try to go about a month a year chemical free. I guess to summarize, at least maybe to summarize to myself, it takes a long period of trial and error to find out what works and what doesnt.  The hard part is to somehow hang in there while going through all the ups and downs. Best wishes, Patrick *** To reply by email, remove the zzz from my email address ***

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Question:

After a couple wrestless nights, a few fights with my concience, and an exchange of words with a few good detectives, I’ve decided to appologize for being untruthfull and misleading. In a recent post I signed my name as Dr. Robert T. Kralik MD. The truth is, I don’t even have my first degree. But I swear by the good grace of God, someday I will have my Ph.D in mental health, and I will be truely helpfull to my community. I’ve confessed, and I’m sorry, but now it’s up to you to find it in your heart to forgive me. Signed, plain old rob kralik

Hi Rob, It took a lot of courage to post the above.  Sure you are forgiven. You have a talent for writing and sometimes we who are depressed help each other almost as much as our docs help us. Hang in there. J9 "The future is ‘NOW’" Warner Wolf…Imus In The Morning (IITM)

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Signed, plain old rob kralik

Just because you’re not a doctor does not mean you don’t deserve to capitalize on what you have already going for you. try writing "Robert Kralik"  and stand back and take a look at it. Looks good to me.

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Found a fellow named GOSH! posted this to the ASAD NG, yet it is missing here. Good possibility it was cancelled, so I will post it here for him. I think it’s a good and worthwile post.

  Sure Rob, I hold no grudge, and I do wish you a load of luck cause   you’l need it. Your appology a response to the tiger twisting your scrotum   till your balls popped out may help your memory.   Balls or not, many  won’t forget your name for a long time. Putting PhD after it down   the road will evoke many recalls, or restimulations, which you will learn   about down that same road. What’s the real fix Robert?  I don’t know,   but you sure got yourself into a genuine "Fix".   Sure glad for Willie Bell’s stories,  and Mom reading Uncle Rhemus   to me and that I never grabbed that tar baby, BTW Rob, dreams are our greatest friends, and motivators. We must remember what "Only In your dreams" means,  (Discriminate) and learn how to make the good ones come "TRUE." Good Luck with your studies, your intellect, appropriately harnessed, will carry you far GOSH!   GOSH!     After a couple wrestless nights, a few fights with my concience,   and     an     exchange of words with a few good detectives, I’ve decided to     appologize     for being untruthfull and misleading. In a recent post I signed my     name     as Dr. Robert T. Kralik MD. The truth is, I don’t even have my   first     degree. But I swear by the good grace of God, someday I will have   my     Ph.D in     mental health, and I will be truely helpfull to my community. I’ve     confessed, and I’m sorry, but now it’s up to you to find it in   your     heart     to forgive me.     Signed, plain old rob kralik – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – After a couple wrestless nights, a few fights with my concience, and an exchange of words with a few good detectives, I’ve decided to appologize for being untruthfull and misleading. In a recent post I signed my name as Dr. Robert T. Kralik MD. The truth is, I don’t even have my first degree. But I swear by the good grace of God, someday I will have my Ph.D in mental health, and I will be truely helpfull to my community. I’ve confessed, and I’m sorry, but now it’s up to you to find it in your heart to forgive me. Signed, plain old rob kralik

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whoa…wait a sec….the fact that one would propagate such untruths in the first place that robert may have a disturbance of character! and he wants a phd in mental health?….. — Jon Mankowski, L.C.S.W. Far Point Rural Behavioral Health Northern California FAX- 916-474-1693 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – After a couple wrestless nights, a few fights with my concience, and an exchange of words with a few good detectives, I’ve decided to appologize for being untruthfull and misleading. In a recent post I signed my name as Dr. Robert T. Kralik MD. The truth is, I don’t even have my first degree. But I swear by the good grace of God, someday I will have my Ph.D in mental health, and I will be truely helpfull to my community. I’ve confessed, and I’m sorry, but now it’s up to you to find it in your heart to forgive me. That’s "restless", "conscience", "truly" . You’ve got the handwriting part down already. I forsee a great future for you in politics… —    Alex Colvin

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After a couple wrestless nights, a few fights with my concience, and an exchange of words with a few good detectives, I’ve decided to appologize for being untruthfull and misleading. In a recent post I signed my name as Dr. Robert T. Kralik MD. The truth is, I don’t even have my first degree. But I swear by the good grace of God, someday I will have my Ph.D in mental health, and I will be truely helpfull to my community. I’ve confessed, and I’m sorry, but now it’s up to you to find it in your heart to forgive me.

That’s "restless", "conscience", "truly" . You’ve got the handwriting part down already. I forsee a great future for you in politics… —         Alex Colvin

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – After a couple wrestless nights, a few fights with my concience, and an exchange of words with a few good detectives, I’ve decided to appologize for being untruthfull and misleading. In a recent post I signed my name as Dr. Robert T. Kralik MD. The truth is, I don’t even have my first degree. But I swear by the good grace of God, someday I will have my Ph.D in mental health, and I will be truely helpfull to my community. I’ve confessed, and I’m sorry, but now it’s up to you to find it in your heart to forgive me. Signed, plain old rob kralikDoes this mean my Rx is no good?

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whoa…wait a sec….the fact that one would propagate such untruths in the first place that robert may have a disturbance of character! and he wants a phd in mental health?…..

I have to agree that although I bear no grudge against Robert for making a mistake and then apologizing for it, it is essential that he figure out what allowed him to do it in the first place and resolve that problem BEFORE getting into a position where people need to trust him with, in some cases, their lives. In other words, he’s OK by me, but in his present condition I don’t think he’s a safe risk as a mental health professional.  Gotta solve his own problems FIRST. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text — Jon Mankowski, L.C.S.W. Far Point Rural Behavioral Health Northern California FAX- 916-474-1693 After a couple wrestless nights, a few fights with my concience, and an exchange of words with a few good detectives, I’ve decided to appologize for being untruthfull and misleading. In a recent post I signed my name as Dr. Robert T. Kralik MD. The truth is, I don’t even have my first degree. But I swear by the good grace of God, someday I will have my Ph.D in mental health, and I will be truely helpfull to my community. I’ve confessed, and I’m sorry, but now it’s up to you to find it in your heart to forgive me. That’s "restless", "conscience", "truly" . You’ve got the handwriting part down already. I forsee a great future for you in politics… —        Alex Colvin

Don Stauffer | Email is welcome except solicitation, which | | will be forwarded to domain Administrators. |

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This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit         I think I need to agree with Jon here.  I think it is commendable that Rob was able to come forward and confess his mistake and his goals and aspirations for an advanced degree in mental health are equally commendable.  However, as many hinted here, people are extremely vulnerable and often naive in many ways.  A false posting can sometimes be detrimental to the health of an individual if posted by someone claiming a certain level of expertise and responsibility.  This is not to say that anyone with the title "doctor" is without fault.  Certainly, we all know this to be the contrary.  Just as it is important to receive feedback and criticism from a group or individual, it is equally important to be able to understand and identify the source of such feedback.  Specific feedback from a doctor or a proclaimed "doctor" should be weighed from that perspective, while that from a fellow patient should also be weighed.  Each is with tremendous merits and drawbacks.           To Rob:  apology accepted and welcome.  good luck in your studies, I am sure that you will do well.  Remember, that one’s degree and station in life holds far more connotations and responsibility than simply a set of initials.  As much as the letters MD  or Ph.D. may seem to be a statement of status and accomplishment, they are laden with heavy responsibility as well and not to be taken lightly. Respectfully, Michael J. Higgins, MD  (effective May 1997) http://www.erols.com/drhiggy Joint Capital Area Family Practice-Psychiatry Residency Program After a couple wrestless nights, a few fights with my concience, and an exchange of words with a few good detectives, I’ve decided to appologize for being untruthfull and misleading. In a recent post I signed my name as Dr. Robert T. Kralik MD. The truth is, I don’t even have my first degree. But I swear by the good grace of God, someday I will have my Ph.D in mental health, and I will be truely helpfull to my community. I’ve confessed, and I’m sorry, but now it’s up to you to find it in your heart to forgive me. Signed, plain old rob kralik

Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html<head</head<BODY bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF"<p<font size=3D2 = color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Rockwell"&#009;I think I need to agree with = Jon here. &nbsp;I think it is commendable that Rob was able to come = forward and confess his mistake and his goals and aspirations for an = advanced degree in mental health are equally commendable. &nbsp;However, = as many hinted here, people are extremely vulnerable and often naive in = many ways. &nbsp;A false posting can sometimes be detrimental to the = health of an individual if posted by someone claiming a certain level of = expertise and responsibility. &nbsp;This is not to say that anyone with = the title &quot;doctor&quot; is without fault. &nbsp;Certainly, we all = know this to be the contrary. &nbsp;Just as it is important to receive = feedback and criticism from a group or individual, it is equally = important to be able to understand and identify the source of such = feedback. &nbsp;Specific feedback from a doctor or a proclaimed = &quot;doctor&quot; should be weighed from that perspective, while that = from a fellow patient should also be weighed. &nbsp;Each is with = tremendous merits and drawbacks. &nbsp;<br<br&#009;To Rob: = &nbsp;apology accepted and welcome. &nbsp;good luck in your studies, I = am sure that you will do well. &nbsp;Remember, that one’s degree and = station in life holds far more connotations and responsibility than = simply a set of initials. &nbsp;As much as the letters MD &nbsp;or Ph.D. = may seem to be a statement of status and accomplishment, they are laden = with heavy responsibility as well and not to be taken = lightly.<br<brRespectfully,<br<brMichael J. Higgins, MD = &nbsp;(effective May = Capital Area Family Practice-Psychiatry Residency = Program<br<br<br<br<br<brRobert Kralik &lt;<font = color=3D"#000000"&gt; wrote in article &lt;<font = net.mb.ca</u<font color=3D"#000000"&gt;…<br&gt; <br&gt; After a = couple wrestless nights, a few fights with my concience, and an <br&gt; = exchange of words with a few good detectives, I’ve decided to appologize = <br&gt; for being untruthfull and misleading. In a recent post I signed = my name <br&gt; as Dr. Robert T. Kralik MD. The truth is, I don’t even = have my first <br&gt; degree. But I swear by the good grace of God, = someday I will have my Ph.D in <br&gt; mental health, and I will be = truely helpfull to my community. I’ve <br&gt; confessed, and I’m sorry, = but now it’s up to you to find it in your heart <br&gt; to forgive = me.<br&gt; Signed, plain old rob kralik<br&gt; </p </font</font</font</font</font</body</html

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Dear Stewart and a few others:   I’m rather surprised that Jon is the only one who has expressed anger over this. Or at least *seems* to be the only one.

Sorry.  I did not take Jon to task for being angry with Robert (yikes, you really gotta follow this thread to understand this post).  I took Jon to task for suggesting that someone with a clinical psychological problem would not make a good mental health professional.  (You might want to read "Welcome to my country", a really good easy to read book that helps to shorten the distance between "us" and "them".)   I think I was probably as angry with Robert as Jon was.  I actually sent a copy of an earlier (IMHO) obnoxious post of Robert’s to his ISP. I posted a copy of what I had done to the newsgroup (alt.support.depression) and someone there e-mailed me some personal information/speculation about Robert.  I told Robert in e-mail that I was seriously thinking of sending a copy of his impersonation of an MD to his ISP.  I asked him if he was an MD, an MD with a mood disorder, or perhaps just someone with a mood disorder.  I was in no hurry.  He e-mailed me an appology and posted one. He told me a bit about his personal life.  *I* felt that was enough to invite him to post more about himself to alt.support.depression.   I did NOT say that I was not angry with his posts, nor did I mean to suggest it.  I just took one thing at a time.  Sorry I didn’t give you more background with my last posts. Sincerely Stewart — The Metaphor Man

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Relax, old buddy. I’m writing to you from alt.support.attn-deficit.  Normally I wold trim my header, but I don’t know what is your "home base" NG. Maybe what’s-his-name’s apology was sincere, maybe it wasn’t.  Maybe he is sincere today and maybe tomorrow will be different.  Your skepticism was a useful expression of what hundreds, maybe thousands, of others probably thought, but didn’t post.   A number of others apparently had different reactions. Golly.  Just sorta like real life to be so ambiguous.  You seem to be a stand-up type of guy.  Don’t go wishy-washy now. "Often wrong, but never in doubt," is my motto. As far as I’m concerned, you are more than welcome to express any of your opinions in alt.support.attn-deficit whenever you wish.  Even, or especially, the ones with which I may not agree.  As a group, however, we tend to not be respecters of credentials and I have observed a tendency to mock "authority". Makes for a lively discussion. In other words, I forgive you for not forgiving what’s-his-name, and proceed at your own risk Mr. L.C.S.W. Best wishes, Tom Fox – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -lookie here… a lot of folks on this list are vulnerable. Vulnerable to grasping at nearly anyhing to allieviate their pain. What i saw on this list were people too quick to forgive an imposter This bothered me so i made a remark regarding his character. Look closely at his mea culpa. i was not "throwing stones" at the fellow. yet i did not want to see him get off the hook so easily. Afterall, he was looking outside himself for forgiveness when in fact he appears to have a lot of his own character searching to do. — Jon Mankowski, L.C.S.W. Far Point Rural Behavioral Health Northern California FAX- 916-474-1693 Oh, dear, whoa…wait a sec….the fact that one would propagate such untruths in the first place that robert may have a disturbance of character! and he wants a phd in mental health?….. — Jon Mankowski, L.C.S.W. Far Point Rural Behavioral Health Northern California FAX- 916-474-1693 After a couple wrestless nights, a few fights with my concience, and an exchange of words with a few good detectives, I’ve decided to appologize for being untruthfull and misleading. In a recent post I signed my name as Dr. Robert T. Kralik MD. The truth is, I don’t even have my first degree. But I swear by the good grace of God, someday I will have my Ph.D in mental health, and I will be truely helpfull to my community. I’ve confessed, and I’m sorry, but now it’s up to you to find it in your heart to forgive me. That’s "restless", "conscience", "truly" . You’ve got the handwriting part down already. I forsee a great future for you in politics… —       Alex Colvin jon.  I guess I’d better come clean – I’m Not really a Goddess.    (Although Toci is, and I’m using her name.)  Or are you just kidding, and not really a social worker?  

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lookie here… A lot of folks on this list are vulnerable.  Vulnerable to grasping at nearly anyhing to allieviate their pain.

     I am sure it does not matter, but I do not know what list/group you are reading this in.  I am reading alt.support.depression (ASD).  We get lots and LOTS of trolls.  Some times it is best to invite them to join the group as a "member" rather than as a troll.  On the other hand, we also make a fine troll stew with SPAM salad.  We work with what we have. What I saw on this list were people too quick to forgive an imposter This bothered me so i made a remark regarding his character. Look closely at his mea culpa. I was not "throwing stones" at the fellow.  

     Here I think you are wrong.  I think you made a really snide comment about how he shouldn’t aspire to work in the mental health field since he has problems of his own.  It sure sounded to me like you picked up a stone from your own yard and through it at his window. Yet I did not want to see him get off the hook so easily. Afterall, he was looking outside himself for forgiveness when in fact he appears to have a lot of his own character searching to do.

     Here I think you are right.  I too think he has a lot of his own character searching to do.  However, given what he did initially (pose in a relatively poorly hidden manner as an MD on a usenet newsgroup), I think he did the perfectly correct thing to appologize.  Now did he learn anything from this episode??  My guess is probably the same as your guess.  Not much, but maybe a little. Just my 2 cents. Sincerely Stewart — The Metaphor Man

Response:

After a couple wrestless nights, a few fights with my concience, and an exchange of words with a few good detectives, I’ve decided to appologize for being untruthfull and misleading. In a recent post I signed my name as Dr. Robert T. Kralik MD. The truth is, I don’t even have my first degree. But I swear by the good grace of God, someday I will have my Ph.D in mental health, and I will be truely helpfull to my community. I’ve confessed, and I’m sorry, but now it’s up to you to find it in your heart to forgive me. Signed, plain old rob kralik

I don’t know about the other groups, or the other people on alt.support.depression (ASD).  I only speak for myself.  Welcome to the group Rob.  Pull up a chair.  Tell us what is going on with you. Sincerely Stewart — The Metaphor Man

Response:

whoa…wait a sec….the fact that one would propagate such untruths in the first place that robert may have a disturbance of character! and he wants a phd in mental health?….. — Jon Mankowski, L.C.S.W. Far Point Rural Behavioral Health

So Jon, do you think that your response here was the sensitive and caring sort of thing that want to see from our "Far Point Rural Behavioral Health" professionals?? How does that people in glass houses thing go again??? Sincerely Stewart — The Metaphor Man

Response:

lookie here… a lot of folks on this list are vulnerable. Vulnerable to grasping at nearly anyhing to allieviate their pain. What i saw on this list were people too quick to forgive an imposter This bothered me so i made a remark regarding his character. Look closely at his mea culpa. i was not "throwing stones" at the fellow. yet i did not want to see him get off the hook so easily. Afterall, he was looking outside himself for forgiveness when in fact he appears to have a lot of his own character searching to do. — Jon Mankowski, L.C.S.W. Far Point Rural Behavioral Health Northern California FAX- 916-474-1693 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Oh, dear, whoa…wait a sec….the fact that one would propagate such untruths in the first place that robert may have a disturbance of character! and he wants a phd in mental health?….. — Jon Mankowski, L.C.S.W. Far Point Rural Behavioral Health Northern California FAX- 916-474-1693 After a couple wrestless nights, a few fights with my concience, and an exchange of words with a few good detectives, I’ve decided to appologize for being untruthfull and misleading. In a recent post I signed my name as Dr. Robert T. Kralik MD. The truth is, I don’t even have my first degree. But I swear by the good grace of God, someday I will have my Ph.D in mental health, and I will be truely helpfull to my community. I’ve confessed, and I’m sorry, but now it’s up to you to find it in your heart to forgive me. That’s "restless", "conscience", "truly" . You’ve got the handwriting part down already. I forsee a great future for you in politics… —   Alex Colvin jon.  I guess I’d better come clean – I’m Not really a Goddess.    (Although Toci is, and I’m using her name.)  Or are you just kidding, and not really a social worker?  

Response:

Oh, dear, – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – whoa…wait a sec….the fact that one would propagate such untruths in the first place that robert may have a disturbance of character! and he wants a phd in mental health?….. — Jon Mankowski, L.C.S.W. Far Point Rural Behavioral Health Northern California FAX- 916-474-1693 After a couple wrestless nights, a few fights with my concience, and an exchange of words with a few good detectives, I’ve decided to appologize for being untruthfull and misleading. In a recent post I signed my name as Dr. Robert T. Kralik MD. The truth is, I don’t even have my first degree. But I swear by the good grace of God, someday I will have my Ph.D in mental health, and I will be truely helpfull to my community. I’ve confessed, and I’m sorry, but now it’s up to you to find it in your heart to forgive me. That’s "restless", "conscience", "truly" . You’ve got the handwriting part down already. I forsee a great future for you in politics… —        Alex Colvin

jon.  I guess I’d better come clean – I’m Not really a Goddess.    (Although Toci is, and I’m using her name.)  Or are you just kidding, and not really a social worker?  

Response:

Sorry to spoil your "provider fantasies" Jon but many of us think our mental health providers are much more in need of intervention than we are. Carma – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Oh, dear, whoa…wait a sec….the fact that one would propagate such untruths in the first place that robert may have a disturbance of character! and he wants a phd in mental health?….. — Jon Mankowski, L.C.S.W. Far Point Rural Behavioral Health Northern California FAX- 916-474-1693 After a couple wrestless nights, a few fights with my concience, and an exchange of words with a few good detectives, I’ve decided to appologize for being untruthfull and misleading. In a recent post I signed my name as Dr. Robert T. Kralik MD. The truth is, I don’t even have my first degree. But I swear by the good grace of God, someday I will have my Ph.D in mental health, and I will be truely helpfull to my community. I’ve confessed, and I’m sorry, but now it’s up to you to find it in your heart to forgive me. That’s "restless", "conscience", "truly" . You’ve got the handwriting part down already. I forsee a great future for you in politics… —      Alex Colvin jon.  I guess I’d better come clean – I’m Not really a Goddess.  (Although Toci is, and I’m using her name.)  Or are you just kidding, and not really a social worker?

Response:

Jon, It must have been nice to be so pure and perfect your entire life. When you go to confess your sins I guess you won’t have anything to say. Anything is possible.  People make mistakes and learn from them. Why shouldn’t he?  Would you hold it against him forever?  "Let he whom has not sinned cast the first stone" (or something like that), remember Mr. Mankowski? I don’t know why I’ve been so kind lately, I’m disgusting myself. I’m going to have to be nasty to even it out so people will like me again. Watch out everyone!;-) Cambela You suck!  (Its a start) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – whoa…wait a sec….the fact that one would propagate such untruths in the first place that robert may have a disturbance of character! and he wants a phd in mental health?….. — Jon Mankowski, L.C.S.W. Far Point Rural Behavioral Health Northern California FAX- 916-474-1693 After a couple wrestless nights, a few fights with my concience, and an exchange of words with a few good detectives, I’ve decided to appologize for being untruthfull and misleading. In a recent post I signed my name as Dr. Robert T. Kralik MD. The truth is, I don’t even have my first degree. But I swear by the good grace of God, someday I will have my Ph.D in mental health, and I will be truely helpfull to my community. I’ve confessed, and I’m sorry, but now it’s up to you to find it in your heart to forgive me. That’s "restless", "conscience", "truly" . You’ve got the handwriting part down already. I forsee a great future for you in politics… —       Alex Colvin

Response:

While I was busy reporting email solicitations on Tue, 22 Apr 1997 My mom worked as Office Administrator for County Mental Health for 25 years….  can’t tell you how many times she has said to me (paraphrasing), "The reason they are so good at helping people is because they have been or are screwed up themselves.  Therefore, they are very good at understanding why the rest of us are screwed up."

… but haven’t got a clue what to do about it. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – lookie here… A lot of folks on this list are vulnerable.  Vulnerable to grasping at nearly anyhing to allieviate their pain.     I am sure it does not matter, but I do not know what list/group you are reading this in.  I am reading alt.support.depression (ASD).  We get lots and LOTS of trolls.  Some times it is best to invite them to join the group as a "member" rather than as a troll.  On the other hand, we also make a fine troll stew with SPAM salad.  We work with what we have. What I saw on this list were people too quick to forgive an imposter This bothered me so i made a remark regarding his character. Look closely at his mea culpa. I was not "throwing stones" at the fellow.       Here I think you are wrong.  I think you made a really snide comment about how he shouldn’t aspire to work in the mental health field since he has problems of his own.  It sure sounded to me like you picked up a stone from your own yard and through it at his window. Yet I did not want to see him get off the hook so easily. Afterall, he was looking outside himself for forgiveness when in fact he appears to have a lot of his own character searching to do.     Here I think you are right.  I too think he has a lot of his own character searching to do.  However, given what he did initially (pose in a relatively poorly hidden manner as an MD on a usenet newsgroup), I think he did the perfectly correct thing to appologize.  Now did he learn anything from this episode??  My guess is probably the same as your guess.  Not much, but maybe a little. Just my 2 cents. Sincerely Stewart — The Metaphor Man

Don Stauffer | Email is welcome except solicitation, which | | will be forwarded to domain Administrators. |

Response:

In article After a couple wrestless nights, a few fights with my concience, and an exchange of words with a few good detectives, I’ve decided to appologize for being untruthfull and misleading. In a recent post I signed my name as Dr. Robert T. Kralik MD. The truth is, I don’t even have my first degree. But I swear by the good grace of God, someday I will have my Ph.D in mental health, and I will be truely helpfull to my community. I’ve confessed, and I’m sorry, but now it’s up to you to find it in your heart to forgive me.

I forgive you.   Mental health, ay??  You *OBVIOUSLY* picked the right field! Do us *BOTH* a big fat favor, dont do something *THAT* damned stupid agian. I forgive you.. were all human.. *JUST DONT DO THAT AGIAN!!* Signed, plain old rob kralik

– The *REAL* Internet users prayer: "Lord, I pray that spam will disappare from the Internet. Lord, I ask if this is to be done, may it be soon. Lord, you know how fustrating it is to find real and valuable information while wadeing throught the garbage. Thank you Lord, Aman"

Response:

whoa…wait a sec….the fact that one would propagate such untruths in the first place that robert may have a disturbance of character! and he wants a phd in mental health?….. — Jon Mankowski, L.C.S.W. Far Point Rural Behavioral Health So Jon, do you think that your response here was the sensitive and caring sort of thing that want to see from our "Far Point Rural Behavioral Health" professionals?? How does that people in glass houses thing go again??? Sincerely Stewart

        Dear Stewart and a few others:         I’m rather surprised that Jon is the only one who has expressed anger over this. Or at least *seems* to be the only one. Now I had no involvement with the individual who lied so I wasn’t hurt or so much as bothered by his actions. On the other hand, if I had been involved and had trusted the so called credentials, I would have been terribly hurt and quite possibly angry as hell. I just wonder if anyone was truly harmed or not.         I think in the short run it once again points out how easily the "anonymity" of the Net can be abused. Therefore we should be as careful here as in the outside world when choosing who to confide in.         One other thing. The comment in regards to Jon’s job. I used to be a mechanic, in fact, a damn good one until my hands were damaged. Many people were quite happy with the work I did and I had no worries about holding a job. On the other hand, if you were to have seen my car you would have wondered who is the idiot who would drive that piece of crap. What Jon does professionally and what he does personally can and probably is two different things. I really don’t think dragging Jon’s job in here will achieve anything other then aggravating the situation.         Just my thoughts on the matter.         Peter Something Evil this way comes.

Response:

My mom worked as Office Administrator for County Mental Health for 25 years….  can’t tell you how many times she has said to me (paraphrasing), "The reason they are so good at helping people is because they have been or are screwed up themselves.  Therefore, they are very good at understanding why the rest of us are screwed up." – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – lookie here… A lot of folks on this list are vulnerable.  Vulnerable to grasping at nearly anyhing to allieviate their pain.     I am sure it does not matter, but I do not know what list/group you are reading this in.  I am reading alt.support.depression (ASD).  We get lots and LOTS of trolls.  Some times it is best to invite them to join the group as a "member" rather than as a troll.  On the other hand, we also make a fine troll stew with SPAM salad.  We work with what we have. What I saw on this list were people too quick to forgive an imposter This bothered me so i made a remark regarding his character. Look closely at his mea culpa. I was not "throwing stones" at the fellow.       Here I think you are wrong.  I think you made a really snide comment about how he shouldn’t aspire to work in the mental health field since he has problems of his own.  It sure sounded to me like you picked up a stone from your own yard and through it at his window. Yet I did not want to see him get off the hook so easily. Afterall, he was looking outside himself for forgiveness when in fact he appears to have a lot of his own character searching to do.     Here I think you are right.  I too think he has a lot of his own character searching to do.  However, given what he did initially (pose in a relatively poorly hidden manner as an MD on a usenet newsgroup), I think he did the perfectly correct thing to appologize.  Now did he learn anything from this episode??  My guess is probably the same as your guess.  Not much, but maybe a little. Just my 2 cents. Sincerely Stewart — The Metaphor Man

Response:

Sure, I’d love to tell all about myself to you guys, but you’ll have to give it some time. Unfortunately I am suffering from severe depression and effexor withdrawal simultaneously dispite the fact that I’m tapering. A funny thing is, I have develloped a kinship with this depression, does this mean I am a masochist? Rabbio

No problem.  We all deal with our cycles of activity and inactivity.  Post when you can. Yup, after a while depression becomes a part of you.  I say "I have a cold", meaning it is separate from me.  Something that *I* "have", like I have a pair of shoes.  But I say "I am depressed", because it is a part of who I am.  So how do I get rid of part of who I am without dying just a little??  It is scarry stuff to change.  How do I know there is anything there behind my depression.  What if I lose the depression only to find that I have lost EVERYTHING??  It is NOT easy stuff to change.  The people who says it is, have not changed anything but their shoes recently. Just my 2 cents of course…. Sincerely Stewart — The Metaphor Man

Response:

You were brave to confess.  You did the right thing by doing it publically.  If others condemn you for it, don’t listen to them. I wish I had friends like you. mari

Response:

I was sincere yesterday, and I’m sincere today. I’m still sorry.

Robert, to reduce the clutter I have started a new thread and kept it to ASD only.   So, you want to tell us anything more about yourself other than that you are sorry?? Sincerely Stewart — The Metaphor Man

Response:

Just drop me an email if you’d like to subscribe and get the full newsletter. Brian             Living with Schizophrenia – A Free Periodic Newsletter                Brought to you by http://www.schizophrenia.com                           Issue #47 – April 22nd, 1997                  A Summary of Schizophrenia News and Events        Note: Please forward this newsletter to others who might benefit.             To Subscribe or Unsubscribe send a note to Brian Chiko   Back issues of this newsletter are available at the following web address:              http://www.schizophrenia.com/news/NEWS1.html Contents: Letters to the Editor: Avoiding weight problems associated with anti-psychotic medications? Your assistance needed in Research Effort in Schizophrenia Genetics Success Stories – Nick’s Story Info Needed on Effectiveness of New Medications – Fighting Health Care Changes MH Providers Bring ANTITRUST Suit Against Nine MH Managed Care Groups Working Memory and Schizophrenia – from Pittsburgh Post-Gazette New Janssen Person to Person program for Schizophrenia – Covered by DJ Jaffe

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