Question:

I have always wondered what steroid inhalers work better than others.  I know there has been talk about difference in taste ( aerobid/ aerobidM ), but I have never seen any discussion in this newsgoup about the effectiveness of different inhaled steroids.  What steroid inhaler works best?  

Response:

I have always wondered what steroid inhalers work better than others.  I know there has been talk about difference in taste ( aerobid/ aerobidM ), but I have never seen any discussion in this newsgoup about the effectiveness of different inhaled steroids.  What steroid inhaler works best?

There is no "best" inhaled steroid.  The ‘best’ inhaled steroid is the one that works best for you – and a different one may be ‘best’ for me.

Response:

I have always wondered what steroid inhalers work better than others.  I know there has been talk about difference in taste ( aerobid/ aerobidM ), but I have never seen any discussion in this newsgoup about the effectiveness of different inhaled steroids.  What steroid inhaler works best?

Does anyone get hoarse using these – I guess that guys might not care or notice, but I don’t like being called sir on the phone!!  And it is just plain hard to talk. Does anyone have any experiences with which ones would have the least side effect in this area?

Response:

Does anyone get hoarse using these – I guess that guys might not care or notice, but I don’t like being called sir on the phone!!  And it is just plain hard to talk. Does anyone have any experiences with which ones would have the least side effect in this area?

I used Becotide 100 for about a year and  developed nodules on my vocal cords  resulting in a inability to talk at anything more than a whisper 8

Question:

I have suffered with severe sinus infections for the last ten years. When I wake with a headache, I dread getting out of bed.  You are at tmes totally incapacitated with these.  Nothing ever helped.  Even antibiotics did not do the job at this point.  I read an article in a magazine about the benefits of drinking a teaspoon of apple cider vinegar in an 8 oz. glass of water each day.  I did more research on this and found that it is supposed to be very beneficial.  Knock on wood, since I started this regimen about 6 weeks ago, I have not had a serious sinus headache.  If I wake with the sinus stuffiness and drainage, the apple cider vinegar and water quickly relieve the condition.  Good luck to all who have this problem.  

Response:

How odd… i heard two tablespoons of warm apple cider vinegar was good for the arthristis…  wonder what else it is good for except maybe salad dressing?! -pam – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have suffered with severe sinus infections for the last ten years. When I wake with a headache, I dread getting out of bed.  You are at tmes totally incapacitated with these.  Nothing ever helped.  Even antibiotics did not do the job at this point.  I read an article in a magazine about the benefits of drinking a teaspoon of apple cider vinegar in an 8 oz. glass of water each day.  I did more research on this and found that it is supposed to be very beneficial.  Knock on wood, since I started this regimen about 6 weeks ago, I have not had a serious sinus headache.  If I wake with the sinus stuffiness and drainage, the apple cider vinegar and water quickly relieve the condition.  Good luck to all who have this problem.  

Response:

Hi Pam and everyone else: Finally got the strength to go back to a doctor only a kinder one this time and she gave me a five day treatment of Zithromax. It, along with a good OTC saline solution and Nasalcrom is working wonders for me, but I might get some more antibiotics because five days may not be enough to completely cure it. Also thinking of going to allergist to solve the flare ups once and for all,:) Happy Holidays to all:) Coral. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – About a week ago, I started noticing: I had a pain going across my forehead and between my eyes, felt like my face was hurting me, My nose was stuffier than usual, (I always have a stuffy nose) Coughing up thick brown phlem. Post nasal drip Feeling constantly dizzy all day long, has lasted about 3 days now. Constantly running to the bathroom to spit up phlem. Ears and hearing are annoying me. I went to a doctor a few days ago, and had Is this a Sinus Infection? This is what I had starting Dec1st.  Coughing earaches sore throat and sore chest.  Primary doctor put me on 6 days of antibiotics for 6 days.  A week later came back and went to allergist and he gave me a shot of cortisone and another double round of antibiotics and I am fine.  This is your difference where the primary doctor does not have time for all the patients.  A specialist will go a step further and cover all the bases.  I did have blaring of vision and dizziness.  See an allergist.  You woun’t be sorry. chest X ray Spirometry test EKG blood test. all were good and the doctor delcared me healthy, BUT he didnt check my nose for imflammation or give me a sinus Xray, my question is, could I have a sinus infection, is feeling dizzy a possible symptom with Sinus infectioned. — Re:  Serevent and Flovent.  My biggest problem is not being permitted to Before you buy.

Response:

Finally got the strength to go back to a doctor only a kinder one this time and she gave me a five day treatment of Zithromax but I might get some more antibiotics because five days may not be enough to completely cure it.

Zythromax is different than most antibioyics and 5 days is like taking 10 days of them.  If I understand correctly, it keeps working for days after you stop it.

Response:

I thank you very large. reble

me too Ellis…this has really helped over the last couple of days…thanks eric "the alternative to seeing things in black and white is to see them in full colour"

Response:

Hi Pam and everyone else: Finally got the strength to go back to a doctor only a kinder one this time and she gave me a five day treatment of Zithromax. It, along with a good OTC saline solution and Nasalcrom is working wonders for me, but I might get some more antibiotics because five days may not be enough to completely cure it. Also thinking of going to allergist to solve the flare ups once and

for Sinus Infections in the winter are caused from being in the house where the air is too dry.  We are going to kick up our humidifier on the furnace and hope that will help.  Also using ocean spray in the nostrils should help.  I am finnally at the point that I am not coughing after three weeks and the visit to the allergist.  I still have a lot of days to finish on the antibiotics but I am finally starting to feel good.  However, I do find that the 24 hr Clairitn-d keeps me from sleeping so I am going to take the 12 hr.  Hope everyone else gets better.  I think I will also use the nasal chrome.  And hopefully all my problems will disappear for good. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – all,:) Happy Holidays to all:) Coral. About a week ago, I started noticing: I had a pain going across my forehead and between my eyes, felt like my face was hurting me, My nose was stuffier than usual, (I always have a stuffy nose) Coughing up thick brown phlem. Post nasal drip Feeling constantly dizzy all day long, has lasted about 3 days now. Constantly running to the bathroom to spit up phlem. Ears and hearing are annoying me. I went to a doctor a few days ago, and had Is this a Sinus Infection? This is what I had starting Dec1st.  Coughing earaches sore throat and sore chest.  Primary doctor put me on 6 days of antibiotics for 6 days.  A week later came back and went to allergist and he gave me a shot of cortisone and another double round of antibiotics and I am fine.  This is your difference where the primary doctor does not have time for all the patients.  A specialist will go a step further and cover all the bases.  I did have blaring of vision and dizziness.  See an allergist.  You woun’t be sorry. chest X ray Spirometry test EKG blood test. all were good and the doctor delcared me healthy, BUT he didnt check my nose for imflammation or give me a sinus Xray, my question is, could I have a sinus infection, is feeling dizzy a possible symptom with Sinus infectioned. — Re:  Serevent and Flovent.  My biggest problem is not being permitted to Before you buy.

– Re:  Serevent and Flovent.  My biggest problem is not being permitted to Before you buy.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – About a week ago, I started noticing: I had a pain going across my forehead and between my eyes,  felt like my face was hurting me, My nose was stuffier than usual, (I always have a stuffy nose) Coughing up thick brown phlem. Post nasal drip Feeling constantly dizzy all day long, has lasted about 3 days now. Constantly running to the bathroom to spit up phlem. Ears and hearing are annoying me. —cut—-  The first thing to try for rhinitis is Nasalcrom (cromolyn) nasal spray, now OTC. It has virtually no side effects. I also recommend saline washes; the simple way is mix some warm salt water, inhale from palm of hand. Ellis — How much saline solution are you talking about? Is this essentially the same a using a saline nasal spary such as "Ocean" available OTC? reble OTC saline solution could be used, but it’s expensive. You could take a half a cup of warm water, sprinkle in some salt; pour into palm of one hand and inhale with one nostril, tip head back so it starts to run down throat, cough and spit out. Repeat on the other side, as is necessary to clear the mucus. If there is not enough or too much salt, there will be a burning sensation. Here’s a link with a recipe: http://www.aos-jax.com/nasal.htm Excerpt: "What is nasal irrigation? This is a procedure in which the nasal cavity is washed with a soothing solution. It can be done by using a bulb syringe or an electric dental device (such as Water Pik). Why would I need to do nasal irrigation? People with upper airway problems may have dry nasal membranes. Also, the mucous secretion is thick and the hairs are not able to move the mucus out. In some people, the mucus dries and forms crusts that interfere with sinus drainage. Crusting and poor drainage also causes headaches, infection, and bad odors. By using nose drops and nasal irrigation, this problem can be relieved and comfort restored. Irrigation with a Bulb Syringe or an Electric Dental Device Equipment needed: Bulb syringe or electric dental device (Water Pik) Irrigation tips (if using Water Pik) Saline solution: One gallon of boiled or distilled water 4 teaspoons of sea salt or canning salt 1 teaspoon of Arm & Hammer baking soda Solution may be warmed prior to irrigation. Always use caution if warming solution to avoid excessive heating. Have a thermometer handy to measure the temperature. Temperature should be 103

Question:

Let’s see; the OP said specifically that the onset of the increased symptoms was directly related to irrigation..

One can’t tell reliably what is related to what just by sequence of occurrences.   Better to look for underlying factors to avoid mixing up triggers with causes. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

. Odd that his thyroid would slow to a crawl each time he irrigated, eh?  :-)

Response:

So you’re saying that irrigation is the trigger of a metabolic slowdown?

No I am not.

Response:

On 12/5/05 1:23 PM, in article 1133817823.808457.32…@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com, "dougred…@gmail.com" <dougred…@gmail.com

wrote: I am not using bottled water, just a PUR filter on my faucet.  Should I use distilled water with the Breathe Ease XL?

Unless your tap water is especially bad,regular PUR filter or any bottled water is OK with Breathe.ease XL

Response:

On 12/5/05 2:03 PM, in article d0e9p15e7ofpv4tf2ge3smtfv4p4umc…@4ax.com, – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -"Don Brady" <dbr…@pobox.com

wrote: On 5 Dec 2005 13:21:29 -0800, dougred…@gmail.com wrote: Don Brady wrote: Really! Hmm I wonder if there could possibly be a metabolic or immune status issue then. This is entirely possible; I am actually a hypopituitary patient.  My endocrinologist Dr. Te Friedman is actually at Cedars Sinaii where Dr. Grossan is.  I’ve been planning to make an appointment with Dr. Grossan the next time I see Dr. Friedman. In a nutshell – Dr. Friedman is about as thorough an endocrinologist as can be found anywhere, and he’s gotten all of my hormones into the mid to high normal range that were low (which was most of them). Do you know what your TSH (thyroid) numeric value is?  It is a blood test. If possible, the numeric value is desirable rather than a conclusion as refernce ranges vary and are being revised. I don’t recall TSH or T3, T4 measurements but at the time I was on 88mcg of T4 which Dr. Friedman raised to 125mcg, and based on a later test, back down to 117mcg. Also I would check fasting B12 level and white blood cell morphology. I can’t answer either of these at the moment, although I do take B12 supplements. Are you tired all the time? Yes indeed.  I am not sure if this is due to some yet to be found hormonal issue related to my pituitary (head trauma is what caused the damage) or if this is sleep related.  I suspect sleep, as there HAVE been times when I have slept well and noticed a definite improvement. But, it appears to be dependent on both possible nocturnal asthma being under control, AND clear nasal breathing.  Nasal CPAP was worthless as I had predicted considering how closed off my nasal passages are.  You can’t force air through pinholes. I have a CPAP machine and I’m considering trying it with an OPAP (oral) mask as it seems at the moment at least, mouth breathing at night is my best and possibly only option. Ok that is what I suspected – there are some underlying metabolic/hormonal factiors here.   You are right on top of them though. Lack of sleep also will cause inflammation through the body, so it could be that alone. I  think that it is among those factors that the cause of your sinusitis lies…..

One of the important findings re sleep apnea is the need to take antioxidant vitamin supplements due to the accumulation of oxidative products during the apneic periods.

Response:

I should note as well that between my nose and lower airways, I get sleep apnea as a result.  When I use Advair and the Afrin / Singulair / Claritin nasal spray before bed, I sleep better than I have ever slept.  If I only use Advair and no nasal spray I still have restless sleep and visa versa.

Response:

On 1 Dec 2005 16:52:44 -0800, dougred…@gmail.com wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Here is my history: – Allergy shots for several years – Septoplasty & turbinectomy 3 years ago – Using oral claritin and singulair before bed – tried all the various nasal sprays to no avail – tried irrigation both isotonic and hypertonic and it didn’t help much – allergist had me try Afrin a few times just to see what would happen. It did almost nothing. After reading this board for awhile I tried concocting my own spray. First I tried saline + Singulair + Benedryl and this spray seemed to work a bit, but was still disappointing Next, I tried 1/2 oz Afrin, mixed with 30mg crushed Singulair and 3 crushed Claritin tablets.  This actually works pretty well. Next, I’m going to try saline (Breathe Ease) 1/2 ounce + 3 crushed Singulair tabs and 3 crushed Claritin tabs to see if it will have the same effect WITHOUT the Afrin. My question is: 1) am I using too much of the Claritin or Singulair and 2) could I mix these with a cortisone spray instead? Also, I believe the spray I tried mixing in Benadryl, I used too little Benadryl.  I wonder if I should try Benadryl instead of Claritin at a higher dose? I only use the Afrin combination once a day, before bed.  This helps my sleep a LOT.  I clearly have a real problem breathing through the nose and also some twitchy lower airways (and possible nocturnal asthma) and I’m hoping to come up with a spray combination that I can use several times per day without worrying about resistance or making the problem worse.  I’m thinking: 1) Use a corisone + Singulair + Claritin spray 2) Start hypertonic irrigation again with Breathe EaseXL twice per day 3) Hopefully, combining #1 and #2 will keep my nose clear. 4) Continue allergy shots and hope that eventually, they cure my nose ailments. All comments welcome.

Afrin is often (always?) addictive if used for over a few days so it is not recommended to  use it continually. Some of the others are antihistamines.  They can be ok but can tend to dry out your sinuses too much which can limit the drainage needed to keep them clear. Yes this stops the irritating drainage onto the turbinates but may have its own price long term.  I would get a CT scan to make sure that sinusitis is not the underlying problem (if not done already) and that you would not make it worse by preventing drainage with too much drying. The steroid spray has few problems. I’d bet you are allergic or sensitive to dust or mold in your work or home and that if you could totally clear that up (very hard to do), that might eliminate the need for all of these medicines. Meanwhile  and get whatever medication combo you are taking signed off on by your allergist.  As long as you do the latter, then you are a lot safer than totally winging it on your own…

Response:

On 12/1/05 7:30 PM, in article 7uevo1tgdobbcic79n1eo220jqvevb9…@4ax.com, – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -"Don Brady" <dbr…@pobox.com

wrote: On 1 Dec 2005 16:52:44 -0800, dougred…@gmail.com wrote: Here is my history: – Allergy shots for several years – Septoplasty & turbinectomy 3 years ago – Using oral claritin and singulair before bed – tried all the various nasal sprays to no avail – tried irrigation both isotonic and hypertonic and it didn’t help much – allergist had me try Afrin a few times just to see what would happen. It did almost nothing. After reading this board for awhile I tried concocting my own spray. First I tried saline + Singulair + Benedryl and this spray seemed to work a bit, but was still disappointing Next, I tried 1/2 oz Afrin, mixed with 30mg crushed Singulair and 3 crushed Claritin tablets.  This actually works pretty well. Next, I’m going to try saline (Breathe Ease) 1/2 ounce + 3 crushed Singulair tabs and 3 crushed Claritin tabs to see if it will have the same effect WITHOUT the Afrin. My question is: 1) am I using too much of the Claritin or Singulair and 2) could I mix these with a cortisone spray instead? Also, I believe the spray I tried mixing in Benadryl, I used too little Benadryl.  I wonder if I should try Benadryl instead of Claritin at a higher dose? I only use the Afrin combination once a day, before bed.  This helps my sleep a LOT.  I clearly have a real problem breathing through the nose and also some twitchy lower airways (and possible nocturnal asthma) and I’m hoping to come up with a spray combination that I can use several times per day without worrying about resistance or making the problem worse.  I’m thinking: 1) Use a corisone + Singulair + Claritin spray 2) Start hypertonic irrigation again with Breathe EaseXL twice per day 3) Hopefully, combining #1 and #2 will keep my nose clear. 4) Continue allergy shots and hope that eventually, they cure my nose ailments. All comments welcome. Afrin is often (always?) addictive if used for over a few days so it is not recommended to  use it continually. Some of the others are antihistamines.  They can be ok but can tend to dry out your sinuses too much which can limit the drainage needed to keep them clear. Yes this stops the irritating drainage onto the turbinates but may have its own price long term.  I would get a CT scan to make sure that sinusitis is not the underlying problem (if not done already) and that you would not make it worse by preventing drainage with too much drying. The steroid spray has few problems. I’d bet you are allergic or sensitive to dust or mold in your work or home and that if you could totally clear that up (very hard to do), that might eliminate the need for all of these medicines. Meanwhile  and get whatever medication combo you are taking signed off on by your allergist.  As long as you do the latter, then you are a lot safer than totally winging it on your own…

Your are out there all alone, no one can guide you because no one has studied this. Merck spoke of a singular nasal spray some years ago but … I don’t know what the solubility of these products are. In theory you can open the benadryl capsule and use that. The coating of the claritin is a problem. Let us know how your experiment works out. If it does, get a patent.

Response:

Here is my history: – Allergy shots for several years – Septoplasty & turbinectomy 3 years ago – Using oral claritin and singulair before bed – tried all the various nasal sprays to no avail – tried irrigation both isotonic and hypertonic and it didn’t help much – allergist had me try Afrin a few times just to see what would happen.  It did almost nothing. After reading this board for awhile I tried concocting my own spray. First I tried saline + Singulair + Benedryl and this spray seemed to work a bit, but was still disappointing Next, I tried 1/2 oz Afrin, mixed with 30mg crushed Singulair and 3 crushed Claritin tablets.  This actually works pretty well. Next, I’m going to try saline (Breathe Ease) 1/2 ounce + 3 crushed Singulair tabs and 3 crushed Claritin tabs to see if it will have the same effect WITHOUT the Afrin. My question is: 1) am I using too much of the Claritin or Singulair and 2) could I mix these with a cortisone spray instead? Also, I believe the spray I tried mixing in Benadryl, I used too little Benadryl.  I wonder if I should try Benadryl instead of Claritin at a higher dose? I only use the Afrin combination once a day, before bed.  This helps my sleep a LOT.  I clearly have a real problem breathing through the nose and also some twitchy lower airways (and possible nocturnal asthma) and I’m hoping to come up with a spray combination that I can use several times per day without worrying about resistance or making the problem worse.  I’m thinking: 1) Use a corisone + Singulair + Claritin spray 2) Start hypertonic irrigation again with Breathe EaseXL twice per day 3) Hopefully, combining #1 and #2 will keep my nose clear. 4) Continue allergy shots and hope that eventually, they cure my nose ailments. All comments welcome. Doug

Response:

On 12/5/05 11:52 AM, in article 4569p19iud5l544s8bc1ju1hlpbv5cv…@4ax.com, – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -"Don Brady" <dbr…@pobox.com

wrote: On 5 Dec 2005 11:39:13 -0800, dougred…@gmail.com wrote: Don and Susan, thank you for your comments about Afrin. I have found unfortunately that my nose becomes "addicted" to Afrin even using it only once per day, before bed.  However, it is my understanding that it is a preservative in Afrin that causes this and not the actual active ingredient??? Why on EARTH would they not change their formula if that is the case, or why wouldn’t a competitor release a generic with a preservative that does not have this problem?? Actually I think it is the active ingredient but I am sure that others will claify. As far as cleaning up my area goes, before having to move for work reasons I had a brand new house built with all hardwood flooring, and the best Consumer Reports whole-house Aprilaire air purifier.  I also had top of the line HEPA room units in my bedroom and my office.  All pillows / bedding allergen proofed.  There literally was NOWHERE for any allergen to be in those rooms.  They may have well have been Intel cleanrooms.  This didn’t help, either Really!   Hmm I wonder if there could possibly be a metabolic or immune status issue then. Do you know what your TSH (thyroid) numeric value is?  It is a blood test. If possible, the numeric value is desirable rather than a conclusion as refernce ranges vary and are being revised. Also I would check fasting B12 level and white blood cell morphology. Are you tired all the time? Are you on any kind of fad diet or do you have major digestive problems?

one way to break the afrin addicition is to dilute the afrin with saline 1/2 and 1/2 each week.

Response:

On 5 Dec 2005 19:01:27 -0800, dougred…@gmail.com wrote:

Don Brady wrote: Ok that is what I suspected – there are some underlying metabolic/hormonal factiors here.   You are right on top of them though. Lack of sleep also will cause inflammation through the body, so it could be that alone. I  think that it is among those factors that the cause of your sinusitis lies….. Unfortunately if that is the case I don’t know what can be done, as all of my hormone levels are now at least midrange and in most cases towards high normal.

If it was only recently then it will take time for all layers of the skin etc. to fully recover. But the sleep angle is the other one I referred to.

Response:

Don Brady wrote:

Ok that is what I suspected – there are some underlying metabolic/hormonal factiors here.   You are right on top of them though. Lack of sleep also will cause inflammation through the body, so it could be that alone. I  think that it is among those factors that the cause of your sinusitis lies…..

Unfortunately if that is the case I don’t know what can be done, as all of my hormone levels are now at least midrange and in most cases towards high normal.

Response:

I just nuke the filtered tap water to kill any microbes that might be present.  Your experience sounds like irrigating is making your sinuses worse (I don’t think you’re withdrawing from antigens) and it made me wonder if you were shooting pathogens up your nose. It sounds as if that’s a strong possibility.

How much time is required to ensure that all microbes are killed? I assume just bring the water to a boil and let it cool?

Response:

It appears he’s irrigating with unsterile water.  That one’s a lot more obvious and easy to fix.

As I said, I do not agee that it is more obvious.  I happen to think it is extremely unlikely that mere unsterile water matters much.   Lots of people go swimming every day.  

I’m interested in your metabolism theory; do you have cites or some material that indicates this may be the case?  Also, what do you mean by slow?  Are you referring to thyroid status, insulin resistance, or something else?

The most common cause of slow metabolism is low thyroid (which is extremely common!. Here’s one reference: http://health.yahoo.com/centers/allergy/154 "Non-allergic rhinitis may also be triggered by pregnancy, thyroid problems, stress or by certain medications. These triggers of non-allergic rhinitis do not cause your body’s immune system to react. Thus they are not an allergen. But they may still irritate your mucous membranes, causing inflammation and your rhinitis symptoms." Really it is no surprise – low thyroid has effects throughout the body and on the skin.  How could it not have the potential to affect the linings of the sinuses and nose also? These matters are covered in any book on endocrinology. As to sleep, it  also profoundly affects natural cortisol levels.  Inflammation throughout the body will result from lack of enough sleep.   The worst thing is that if this is the case in an individual, the sinuses are just one marker. Elevated inflammation will increase the risk of heart disease also amd many other diseases. This is covered in many recent articles on sleep. My sinuses are now getting back close to what they were right after surgery (very good) just by getting *lots* more sleep. In me, sleep is *far* more signficant than streroid sprays.   My thyroid is also bodferline low (TSH is borderline high) but in me it is part;y caused by low caloric intake, which is not too hard to remedy…..

Response:

I am not using bottled water, just a PUR filter on my faucet.  Should I use distilled water with the Breathe Ease XL?

Response:

On 5 Dec 2005 13:21:29 -0800, dougred…@gmail.com wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Don Brady wrote: Really! Hmm I wonder if there could possibly be a metabolic or immune status issue then. This is entirely possible; I am actually a hypopituitary patient.  My endocrinologist Dr. Te Friedman is actually at Cedars Sinaii where Dr. Grossan is.  I’ve been planning to make an appointment with Dr. Grossan the next time I see Dr. Friedman. In a nutshell – Dr. Friedman is about as thorough an endocrinologist as can be found anywhere, and he’s gotten all of my hormones into the mid to high normal range that were low (which was most of them). Do you know what your TSH (thyroid) numeric value is?  It is a blood test. If possible, the numeric value is desirable rather than a conclusion as refernce ranges vary and are being revised. I don’t recall TSH or T3, T4 measurements but at the time I was on 88mcg of T4 which Dr. Friedman raised to 125mcg, and based on a later test, back down to 117mcg. Also I would check fasting B12 level and white blood cell morphology. I can’t answer either of these at the moment, although I do take B12 supplements. Are you tired all the time? Yes indeed.  I am not sure if this is due to some yet to be found hormonal issue related to my pituitary (head trauma is what caused the damage) or if this is sleep related.  I suspect sleep, as there HAVE been times when I have slept well and noticed a definite improvement. But, it appears to be dependent on both possible nocturnal asthma being under control, AND clear nasal breathing.  Nasal CPAP was worthless as I had predicted considering how closed off my nasal passages are.  You can’t force air through pinholes. I have a CPAP machine and I’m considering trying it with an OPAP (oral) mask as it seems at the moment at least, mouth breathing at night is my best and possibly only option.

Ok that is what I suspected – there are some underlying metabolic/hormonal factiors here.   You are right on top of them though. Lack of sleep also will cause inflammation through the body, so it could be that alone. I  think that it is among those factors that the cause of your sinusitis lies…..

Response:

On Mon, 05 Dec 2005 15:06:26 -0500, Susan <neverm…@nomail.com

wrote: More horse than zebralike, I wonder if the irrigation solution is sterile?

Fair enough question but I actually think that slow metabolism is a major factor in soem forms of sinsusitis. View may differ on which is the horse and which is the zebra….

Response:

Don Brady wrote:

Really! Hmm I wonder if there could possibly be a metabolic or immune status issue then.

This is entirely possible; I am actually a hypopituitary patient.  My endocrinologist Dr. Te Friedman is actually at Cedars Sinaii where Dr. Grossan is.  I’ve been planning to make an appointment with Dr. Grossan the next time I see Dr. Friedman. In a nutshell – Dr. Friedman is about as thorough an endocrinologist as can be found anywhere, and he’s gotten all of my hormones into the mid to high normal range that were low (which was most of them).

Do you know what your TSH (thyroid) numeric value is?  It is a blood test. If possible, the numeric value is desirable rather than a conclusion as refernce ranges vary and are being revised.

I don’t recall TSH or T3, T4 measurements but at the time I was on 88mcg of T4 which Dr. Friedman raised to 125mcg, and based on a later test, back down to 117mcg.

Also I would check fasting B12 level and white blood cell morphology.

I can’t answer either of these at the moment, although I do take B12 supplements.

Are you tired all the time?

Yes indeed.  I am not sure if this is due to some yet to be found hormonal issue related to my pituitary (head trauma is what caused the damage) or if this is sleep related.  I suspect sleep, as there HAVE been times when I have slept well and noticed a definite improvement. But, it appears to be dependent on both possible nocturnal asthma being under control, AND clear nasal breathing.  Nasal CPAP was worthless as I had predicted considering how closed off my nasal passages are.  You can’t force air through pinholes. I have a CPAP machine and I’m considering trying it with an OPAP (oral) mask as it seems at the moment at least, mouth breathing at night is my best and possibly only option.

Are you on any kind of fad diet or do you have major digestive problems?

No fad diets.  I don’t believe in them.  No digestive problems that I am aware of aside from excess stomach acid and this can be eliminated by dietary adjustments.  But, I LOVE hot / spicy foods unfortunately lol. Thank you for the help. Doug

Response:

Don and Susan, thank you for your comments about Afrin. I have found unfortunately that my nose becomes "addicted" to Afrin even using it only once per day, before bed.  However, it is my understanding that it is a preservative in Afrin that causes this and not the actual active ingredient??? Why on EARTH would they not change their formula if that is the case, or why wouldn’t a competitor release a generic with a preservative that does not have this problem?? As far as cleaning up my area goes, before having to move for work reasons I had a brand new house built with all hardwood flooring, and the best Consumer Reports whole-house Aprilaire air purifier.  I also had top of the line HEPA room units in my bedroom and my office.  All pillows / bedding allergen proofed.  There literally was NOWHERE for any allergen to be in those rooms.  They may have well have been Intel cleanrooms.  This didn’t help, either.  My allergist referred me to an ENT and I had a CT which showed no infection but I did have oversized turbinates, and one turbinate had a cyst / nodule or something on it. I had at turbinectomy and that didn’t help, either. Dr. Grossan, I’m actually not using Claritin, I am using Costco generic and this does not appear to have any sort of coating on it.  Since Afrin was starting to give me rebound problems I quit using it and started using Singulair + Claritin in saline.  It seemed to help a bit, but not NEARLY as much.  Not enough help to even bother so I quit using spray entirely.  My nose has completely recovered from the Afrin as I didn’t use it very long. However, I HAVE continued to use my Hydropulse 2X per day, hypertonic. This time around, it seems to be having a positive effect and it’s only been a few days now.  I am using Breathe Ease XL this time, whereas last time I was just using regular salt and baking soda.  Since irrigating however, (and this happened last time as well) I have felt TERRIBLE – I would liken it to the "withdrawal" one may feel when going on a diet that restricts a lot of foods they previously ate.  Really foggy head, very tired, can definitely feel it in my sinuses and eyes. I am guessing that this is my body reacting to the abscencse (or greatly reduced level) of offending allergens in my nasal passages and hence the "withdrawal" feeling? I am hoping that what will happen if I continue to irrigate is, this will go away and I will feel better than before.  How common are these symptoms and any idea how long this process can take?

Response:

On 5 Dec 2005 11:39:13 -0800, dougred…@gmail.com wrote:

Don and Susan, thank you for your comments about Afrin. I have found unfortunately that my nose becomes "addicted" to Afrin even using it only once per day, before bed.  However, it is my understanding that it is a preservative in Afrin that causes this and not the actual active ingredient??? Why on EARTH would they not change their formula if that is the case, or why wouldn’t a competitor release a generic with a preservative that does not have this problem??

Actually I think it is the active ingredient but I am sure that others will claify.

As far as cleaning up my area goes, before having to move for work reasons I had a brand new house built with all hardwood flooring, and the best Consumer Reports whole-house Aprilaire air purifier.  I also had top of the line HEPA room units in my bedroom and my office.  All pillows / bedding allergen proofed.  There literally was NOWHERE for any allergen to be in those rooms.  They may have well have been Intel cleanrooms.  This didn’t help, either

Really!   Hmm I wonder if there could possibly be a metabolic or immune status issue then. Do you know what your TSH (thyroid) numeric value is?  It is a blood test. If possible, the numeric value is desirable rather than a conclusion as refernce ranges vary and are being revised. Also I would check fasting B12 level and white blood cell morphology. Are you tired all the time? Are you on any kind of fad diet or do you have major digestive problems?

Response:

Question:

Hi everyone, i’ve suffered headaches off and on my whole life, but over the past 8 days, I have had a severe morning headache every single morning.  It is more in the back of my head, my neck muscles are very sore and my jaw and bottom molars are sore as well. I take two excedrin migraine and the headache is completely gone within an hour, if I don’t take the excedrin, then well the headache stays with me for most of the day until after lunch.  Also my eyes are very light sensitive with these headaches. I had been on zoloft 50mg for about 8 months and two months ago I stopped taking it, I slowly weaned myself off of it.  I’m thinking these headaches could be from the zoloft withdrawal?  I also feel that I may be grinding my teeth at night but i’m not sure.  Any thoughts? Thanks in advance.

Response:

I had been on zoloft 50mg for about 8 months and two months ago I stopped taking it, I slowly weaned myself off of it. I’m thinking these headaches could be from the zoloft withdrawal? I also feel that I may be grinding my teeth at night but i’m not sure. Any thoughts?

IMHO, it may well be the grinding of your teeth, as well as not taking zoloft anymore.  Doctors say that anti-depressants are not addictive as benzo’s, but they are so wrong.  I  weaned myself off prozac very slowly, and I felt ok for  a few months.  Then all of a sudden, I developed dizzy spells, felt very sad and awful.  So…I took the prozac again, and bingo, the dizziness went away, my crying fits stopped, and felt better (but still have that same underlying feelings of sadness and feelings of despair , guilt, etc.  Try taking the zoloft again in small doses, and see if the headaches stop.  Then you know it was the brain yelling out for the zoloft.  The brain does not forget these little pills we take, and lets us know that it wants it again.  Of course, I could be entirely wrong about this.  Maybe your headaches are caused by tension.  Maybe this, or maybe that.  Good luck and be well.   Art Decco… nyc, usa

Response:

Question:

I have been prescribed Zoloft for anti-anxiety/depression,,,,,my psych normal dose? will i be sleepy? I am concerned about forgetting passwords, etc….does that happen? Will I be a zombie? Thanks!

Response:

50 mg Zoloft is what I started at and am now up to 100 mg.  Some meds do tend to make people tired or a little more anxious temporarily but in time the side effects wear off. Of course, YMMV…  Best wishes. smiles, Elise

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have been prescribed Zoloft for anti-anxiety/depression,,,,,my psych or normal dose? will i be sleepy? I am concerned about forgetting passwords, etc….does that happen? Will I be a zombie? Thanks!

Response:

I also started out on 50mg, and after two weeks my psych upped it to 100mg. It seems to be helping, it just takes a few weeks.  Drowsiness is a side-effect, but you shouldn’t be too worried.  I would love to tell you that I don’t get tired from it but I’m not sure, I’m tired a lot but I don’t think it’s from the meds. Good luck, lots of smiles,     Robin

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have been prescribed Zoloft for anti-anxiety/depression,,,,,my psych or normal dose? will i be sleepy? I am concerned about forgetting passwords, etc….does that happen? Will I be a zombie? Thanks!

Response:

I have been prescribed Zoloft for anti-anxiety/depression,,,,,my psych normal dose? will i be sleepy? I am concerned about forgetting passwords, etc….does that happen? Will I be a zombie? Thanks!

This is asking for trouble, starting at such a high dose will heigthen your anxiety and add other side effects that are temporary in the vast majority of cases and this might scare you off a potentially helpful med. Your pdoc should know better. The recommended starting dose of Zoloft for anxiety sufferers is 12.5 mg. Stay there for a week or so and then raise the dose in weekly increments of 12.5 mg (or at whatever pace is comfortable for you) until you have reached a therapeutic dose. Having a benzo like Xanax or Ativan to take *as needed* on the side at least during the weaning period will help too. *Start low, go slow* and you will have far fewer initial side effect problems. You should give Zoloift up to eight weeks to kick in – although most people get to feel better much earlier. Philip

Response:

50 mg Zoloft is what I started at and am now up to 100 mg.  Some meds do tend to make people tired or a little more anxious temporarily but in time the side effects wear off. Of course, YMMV…  Best wishes. smiles, Elise

Wow, you managed starting at 50 mg with no problems? Amazing (and very fortunate of course). Philip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have been prescribed Zoloft for anti-anxiety/depression,,,,,my psych or normal dose? will i be sleepy? I am concerned about forgetting passwords, etc….does that happen? Will I be a zombie? Thanks!

Response:

Question:

Justin,     Depression is a bummer, in and of itself. Have you asked your doc to check other things out? I have a thyroid problem and one of the things that surfaces with it is depression and a tendency to sleep 14 hours a day ( really ), skin problems, other health problems can accompany it. Most docs blow us off because, as men, we are in the minority with this, and so they seldom screen for it. Having checked a few things back for about 20 years or more, it is highly probable I’ve had for some time. A couple of simple blood tests and you’ll have a good idea if it is or isn’t, but it is not normal to be depressed and it would be one less worry. It could be something so simple but life changing as this that it would be prudent to discuss it with your doc.     A good place to ask for more question on this might be Alt.Support.Thyroid , as they are good, gentle folks with a lot of answers pertaining to what you’ve described, and it is quite possible to have a life changing event cause a temporary health issue. If that isn’t the case, feel free to vent, rant, or rave here. We’ll listen.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This post is not divorce, but I do need help. I have posted at other ng some have been helpful others have not. I’m looking for advice, I will be preprared to take it. Which can be hard for me. I have posted here before. My name is Justin, I’m 22/m I feel like my life is a real mess, I don’t know how to get out of this rut. Most days I rather be dead then go on. I don’t feel like I will neber ever, ever get better It starts here. Im upset because I feel like I  disappointed my parents at many levels. After graduating high school in 98′ I went off to the University Of Toledo. I stayed 5 days. I left because I was paranoid about some stuff from high school, which I rather not mention. Upon coming home I worked several jobs. I didn’t stay at many because I was too paranoid. I eventually became house bound. The only time I left was to see my doctor. Its almost like my mom hated my mom for not understanding my problems. I wasn’t a perfect kid, but most of my problems stemed from this issue. I finally moved in with my father. I did get better. I started doing the phones at his office and became confident. But living with my father was hell. He made me ill and I became aneroxic at some level. I’m about 5′11" I dropped down to 135Ib. Eventually I moved out. I couldn’t  stand the asshole. I did it overnight without hi knowing (If you ask my father he will tell you what a rotten kid I was) I then moved into an apartment. In a good neighborhood. But even in good areas there are some real nuts. The lady who lived across from me was a cocaine addict. She even proposition me for sex in the middle of the night. I didn’t touch the skank. Eventually, I moved out of that apartment and one across the street. I then met up with this dude, while working at the movie theatre. That was a bad sitution. He never took showers. He left meatloaf out for weeks, he had cereal all over the floor in his room. The list goes on and on. The apartment managers let me break my lease. I now live by myself(boy, im glad I don’t live with anyone) Then 7 months ago. I was so depressed I hooked up with some guy I met on the net. I regret doing this, one because Im not gay. But I was so unhappy. I would do anything to relieve stress. Lately, I look at porn on the net because Im miserable. Then last week I got fired from my job at Nordstroms as a dishwasher.. I was only there for about 5 weeks. So it wasn’t a big deal. The reason is I don’t know how  to do washes. I also put the trash in the wrong place a few times. I know this was my fault. I got a little lazy. The last day I was there this dude got in my face and was yelling at me about how I don’t know how to do dishes. He put his finger in my face. I dont look weak now. I now weigh abou 170 5′11" medium build. Im pissed another dude got in my face. I told my grandfather what happened he said i "fucked up" and on the wrong track in life. Today, its 5:30 am. I feel like shit. I’m thinking about cutting school. I sleep like 14 hrs a day. Im so depressed, and even a little suicidal. I have bad obsessions. I’m always concerned with my looks. I always think Im ugly, but I’m not I’m actually good looking. I stand in the mirrors for awhile picking at whats wrong with my face, and how i could correct it. I’m seething about some other things. I was talking to this kid I know from one of the ng. I told him how sometimes I read posts with advice and I get upset. He told me im too emotional, and then he said im as emotional as a woman. After he said that I started insulting him like crazy. I usually feel bad when Im brutally mean to people this time, I wasn’t. I could barley sleep last  night because of this comment. I don’t feel like I will get over this comment. Boy, am I angry. Then last night I read a helpful post on here. Anyway, I took it the wrong way and got upset. I was then obsessing about it all last night and still am. The comment was just how relationships are 50/50 nothing bad. Well, I then started to worry that Im just a totaly self-absorbed dude. Which Im not, except when it comes to my problems.  I see myself being absorbed in them. After I read that post I was got all paranoid that when Im not absorbed in my own problems Im not interested in others. I dont want people to see me like this, so now im very worried. So I traced back to all the people I talk to at school and wondered if I seemed interested in them. And I did. But now I fear that I will worry if  I seem interested in people and watch everything I say, and maybe say things just so I seem interested. Maybe ask them questions that I might not normally do. I once did this before and I felt fake. I rather be mother fucking dead then to have this obsession return and thats what its fucking doing. To some this may seem like nothing to me this is a huge deal. I rather stay home then bare this worry. What’s funny is people do REALLY like me. People ask me where the parties are, boy if they only knew how horrible my life is. I once took a survery at the mall while I had some extra time. The kid doing the survey was in high school. He said I bet your a frat boy. Its funny because I see myself as an ugly, loser fuck. Will I get better? I have been going through hell for the last 5 years I see a doc, take meds, do everything. nothin works Justin

Response:

 But now I fear that I will worry if  I seem interested in people and watch everything I say, and maybe say things just so I seem interested. Maybe ask them questions that I might not normally do. I once did this before and I felt fake. I rather be mother fucking dead then to have this obsession return and thats what its fucking doing. To some this may seem like nothing to me this is a huge deal. I rather stay home then bare this worry.

Ask your doc if you can get into some sort of support group for obsessives.   I think obsessions can be an offshoot from anxiety disorders, and are not exactly the same as depression.  But ask a pro, i really don’t know.  I do know from experience that medications made obsessions worse for me.  I still deal with them but they’re more under control, and even channeled into positive things sometimes…  I wonder if your past anorexia is related to that, also?  I was told it was all related.  Congrats on getting past that part, that’s a big step that shouldn’t go unnoticed. Good luck.  

Response:

Justin, I am sorry you are feeling so depressed and going through sucha horrible time of it. But As you say this is a divorce support group and I don;t know how much good posting here will do, have you tried posting on the Alt. Support Depressed or depression NG? Have you tired talking to people, to friends to the doctor even?

Response:

This post is not divorce, but I do need help. I have posted at other ng some have been helpful others have not. I’m looking for advice, I will be preprared to take it. Which can be hard for me. I have posted here before. My name is Justin, I’m 22/m Will I get better? I have been going through hell for the last 5 years SNIP, SNIP, SNIP I see a doc, take meds, do everything. nothin works Justin

Will you get better?  Sure you will!  It’s obvious to me that you are TOO HARD ON YOURSELF.  When I was 22 years old I felt the same way…which is pitiful because very few people have found themselves at such an early age…meanwhile a lot of your friends have graduated from college and look like they had all the self-direction in the world.  Don’t believe it. You need to send a cheap little greeting card to your parents every now and then.  Falling out of contact is not very good psychology….even if you’re at a place in life when you don’t like them and think their values stink. I’m going to sing a song… listen to the words… DESYREL, LITHIUM, ZOLOFT, XANAX, LORAZAPAM, NORTRIPTOLEAN, PROZAC and PAXIL. It took over seven years of trial and error to get the right medication before life began to be bearable.   You want advice?  Contruct a diary of your moods and chart the highs and lows.  Write a lil’ story about your past history of abuse and addiction. 2. Go back to your medical doctor and tell him you want to visit a psychiatrist.  He’ll give you a medical referral 3.   A good psychiatrist will ask you 50-100 questions…in rapid fire… He’ll then construct a baseline on where you are right now verses where you ought to be.  4) You’ll have routine visits with him– adjusting medication. PS You know you’re not a loser…just take better care of yourself.

Response:

This post is not divorce, but I do need help. I have posted at other ng some have been helpful others have not. I’m looking for advice, I will be preprared to take it. Which can be hard for me. I have posted here before. My name is Justin, I’m 22/m I feel like my life is a real mess, I don’t know how to get out of this rut. Most days I rather be dead then go on. I don’t feel like I will neber ever, ever get better It starts here. Im upset because I feel like I  disappointed my parents at many levels. After graduating high school in 98′ I went off to the University Of Toledo. I stayed 5 days. I left because I was paranoid about some stuff from high school, which I rather not mention. Upon coming home I worked several jobs. I didn’t stay at many because I was too paranoid. I eventually became house bound. The only time I left was to see my doctor. Its almost like my mom hated my mom for not understanding my problems. I wasn’t a perfect kid, but most of my problems stemed from this issue. I finally moved in with my father. I did get better. I started doing the phones at his office and became confident. But living with my father was hell. He made me ill and I became aneroxic at some level. I’m about 5′11" I dropped down to 135Ib. Eventually I moved out. I couldn’t  stand the asshole. I did it overnight without hi knowing (If you ask my father he will tell you what a rotten kid I was) I then moved into an apartment. In a good neighborhood. But even in good areas there are some real nuts. The lady who lived across from me was a cocaine addict. She even proposition me for sex in the middle of the night. I didn’t touch the skank. Eventually, I moved out of that apartment and one across the street. I then met up with this dude, while working at the movie theatre. That was a bad sitution. He never took showers. He left meatloaf out for weeks, he had cereal all over the floor in his room. The list goes on and on. The apartment managers let me break my lease. I now live by myself(boy, im glad I don’t live with anyone) Then 7 months ago. I was so depressed I hooked up with some guy I met on the net. I regret doing this, one because Im not gay. But I was so unhappy. I would do anything to relieve stress. Lately, I look at porn on the net because Im miserable. Then last week I got fired from my job at Nordstroms as a dishwasher.. I was only there for about 5 weeks. So it wasn’t a big deal. The reason is I don’t know how  to do washes. I also put the trash in the wrong place a few times. I know this was my fault. I got a little lazy. The last day I was there this dude got in my face and was yelling at me about how I don’t know how to do dishes. He put his finger in my face. I dont look weak now. I now weigh abou 170 5′11" medium build. Im pissed another dude got in my face. I told my grandfather what happened he said i "fucked up" and on the wrong track in life. Today, its 5:30 am. I feel like shit. I’m thinking about cutting school. I sleep like 14 hrs a day. Im so depressed, and even a little suicidal. I have bad obsessions. I’m always concerned with my looks. I always think Im ugly, but I’m not I’m actually good looking. I stand in the mirrors for awhile picking at whats wrong with my face, and how i could correct it. I’m seething about some other things. I was talking to this kid I know from one of the ng. I told him how sometimes I read posts with advice and I get upset. He told me im too emotional, and then he said im as emotional as a woman. After he said that I started insulting him like crazy. I usually feel bad when Im brutally mean to people this time, I wasn’t. I could barley sleep last  night because of this comment. I don’t feel like I will get over this comment. Boy, am I angry. Then last night I read a helpful post on here. Anyway, I took it the wrong way and got upset. I was then obsessing about it all last night and still am. The comment was just how relationships are 50/50 nothing bad. Well, I then started to worry that Im just a totaly self-absorbed dude. Which Im not, except when it comes to my problems.  I see myself being absorbed in them. After I read that post I was got all paranoid that when Im not absorbed in my own problems Im not interested in others. I dont want people to see me like this, so now im very worried. So I traced back to all the people I talk to at school and wondered if I seemed interested in them. And I did. But now I fear that I will worry if  I seem interested in people and watch everything I say, and maybe say things just so I seem interested. Maybe ask them questions that I might not normally do. I once did this before and I felt fake. I rather be mother fucking dead then to have this obsession return and thats what its fucking doing. To some this may seem like nothing to me this is a huge deal. I rather stay home then bare this worry. What’s funny is people do REALLY like me. People ask me where the parties are, boy if they only knew how horrible my life is. I once took a survery at the mall while I had some extra time. The kid doing the survey was in high school. He said I bet your a frat boy. Its funny because I see myself as an ugly, loser fuck. Will I get better? I have been going through hell for the last 5 years I see a doc, take meds, do everything. nothin works Justin

Response:

Question:

Hi, need some quick advise, i took effexor last night, 37.5 mg. I woke up today, in a state of panic, and my pupils were BIG as a watermealon. Is this a normal side effect,and what could i take to counteract this? need advise geno

Response:

Hi, need some quick advise, i took effexor last night, 37.5 mg. I woke up today, in a state of panic, and my pupils were BIG as a watermealon. Is this a normal side effect,and what could i take to counteract this? need advise geno

If I were you, I would, for starters, abstain from anything that contains caffeine or even aspartame.

Response:

geno, big pupils is a normal side effect. no worries ) there’s not much you can do about it. ~*~nwysca~*~ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, need some quick advise, i took effexor last night, 37.5 mg. I woke up today, in a state of panic, and my pupils were BIG as a watermealon. Is this a normal side effect,and what could i take to counteract this? need advise geno If I were you, I would, for starters, abstain from anything that contains caffeine or even aspartame.

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The philosopher Voltaire was known to have consumed over 50 cups of coffee a day which came as a surprise to readers of Voltaire such as Nikola Tesla, the electrical engineer and inventor.  The French mathematician, Poincare, said one his mathematical advances came as the direct result of drinking a single cup of black coffee.  Caffeine is a known weak central nervous system stimulant – alerting agent – and it has been extensively studied at different medical schools and universities around the world.  Caffeine is known to increase alertness, energy, and the ability to concentrate in some people (not all). Source:  http://pubs.acs.org/hotartcl/chemtech/99/jul/negli.html In the midst of my recent efforts to have my daughter and myself assessed for ADD, my new partner and I attended a CHADD meeting. There was a presentation given on diagnosing adults by the woman who had recently assessed me. My partner suddenly began to wonder if he might have it and said he should get assessed.  As the meeting was breaking up and right in front of the presenter I asked him, "So you really think you may have ADD?" "Well, not as bad as you do." he said. "Perhaps if you didn’t drink so much coffee, you might think differently." The presenter pointed out, as I already knew, that some people self-medicate with caffeine. Then a couple of days later I asked my partner just how much coffee he consumes in a average day, because I knew he drank a lot, but I had no idea how much. He told me that he drinks an average of 20-22 mugs of coffee each day! I was shocked!  I have scoured the net for info on long-term health effects of consuming that much caffeine and there is none.  I don’t think anyone else drinks that much coffee…certainly no one that has been part of any study,  Excessive intake is said to be about 10 cups and he drinks twice that!  There are only long-term studies on people consuming up to 650 mg of caffeine per day (about 6 cups) and there are potential serious effects on that.  The so-called toxic dose is 10,000 mg (about 100 cups of coffee).  Even so, my partner is consuming what would be considered an "overdose"…and then some! His hands tremor, but otherwise, he is suffering no apparent ill effects.  I worry about ulcers and heart irregularities.  He has only been drinking this much for about the last year, since he quit drinking alcohol. I now have no doubts that he’s self-medicating undiagnosed ADD and I want him to get assessed.  I managed to convince him to cut back to 10 cups a day and gradually to 5 for the sake of his health. So far, so good. Has anyone else here tried to unknowingly self-medicate with caffeine to that extreme?  Does anyone here even know someone who drinks that much coffee consistently?

I used to drink a lot of coffee. I worked good with my ADD my irritated my aniexty something fierce. I was edgy and parinoid and my my hair trigger temper would go off without warning. I was such a joy to be around . But I love coffee so I switched to decaf. Who says you can’t have your cake and eat it too. Dami

Response:

For years I’ve happily consumed large quantities of coffee — 32oz on the way to work, several 20oz during the day, then more at night, never kept me up. Never occured to me it might be "self-medicating", I just thought it was a relatively harmless addiction that seemed to help me get down to business. Is this true of depression, anxiety disorders, or BPD, or is it mainly ADD? – Jeff Has anyone else here tried to unknowingly self-medicate with caffeine to that extreme?  Does anyone here even know someone who drinks that much coffee consistently? I used to drink a lot of coffee. I worked good with my ADD my irritated my aniexty something fierce. I was edgy and parinoid and my my hair trigger temper would go off without warning. I was such a joy to be around . But I love coffee so I switched to decaf. Who says you can’t have your cake and eat it too.

– ‘98 Rans V-Rex    ==–%   Waltham, MA    ()    O http://www.BlueSNAFU.com – v2.35

Response:

For years I’ve happily consumed large quantities of coffee — 32oz on the way to work, several 20oz during the day, then more at night, never kept me up. Never occured to me it might be "self-medicating", I just thought it was a relatively harmless addiction that seemed to help me get down to business. Is this true of depression, anxiety disorders, or BPD, or is it mainly ADD?

Although, I don’t know for sure, it think it’s mainly ADD. Since caffine is a stimulant and gives you that extra kick in the butt that helps. I remember during some of my caffinated days, I would drink a large iced coffee and clean the whole house. Housecleaning is very difficult for me. My mom was, and is, the same way. She was never diagnosed with ADD but she has all the symptoms, but shes worse than me but that’s another story. I’m not sure if caffine helps depression I have that too but it never seemd to make a difference with me. Anxiety I’m sure it dosen’t help since caffine is a form of amphetmine and as I’ve found personally after long usage it was very bad for my anxiety so I had to stop. Dami – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Has anyone else here tried to unknowingly self-medicate with caffeine to that extreme?  Does anyone here even know someone who drinks that much coffee consistently? I used to drink a lot of coffee. I worked good with my ADD my irritated my aniexty something fierce. I was edgy and parinoid and my my hair trigger temper would go off without warning. I was such a joy to be around . But I love coffee so I switched to decaf. Who says you can’t have your cake and eat it too.

Response:

The philosopher Voltaire was known to have consumed over 50 cups of coffee a day which came as a surprise to readers of Voltaire such as Nikola Tesla, the electrical engineer and inventor.  The French mathematician, Poincare, said one his mathematical advances came as the direct result of drinking a single cup of black coffee.  Caffeine is a known weak central nervous system stimulant – alerting agent – and it has been extensively studied at different medical schools and universities around the world.  Caffeine is known to increase alertness, energy, and the ability to concentrate in some people (not all). Source:  http://pubs.acs.org/hotartcl/chemtech/99/jul/negli.html – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In the midst of my recent efforts to have my daughter and myself assessed for ADD, my new partner and I attended a CHADD meeting. There was a presentation given on diagnosing adults by the woman who had recently assessed me. My partner suddenly began to wonder if he might have it and said he should get assessed.  As the meeting was breaking up and right in front of the presenter I asked him, "So you really think you may have ADD?" "Well, not as bad as you do." he said. "Perhaps if you didn’t drink so much coffee, you might think differently." The presenter pointed out, as I already knew, that some people self-medicate with caffeine. Then a couple of days later I asked my partner just how much coffee he consumes in a average day, because I knew he drank a lot, but I had no idea how much. He told me that he drinks an average of 20-22 mugs of coffee each day! I was shocked!  I have scoured the net for info on long-term health effects of consuming that much caffeine and there is none.  I don’t think anyone else drinks that much coffee…certainly no one that has been part of any study,  Excessive intake is said to be about 10 cups and he drinks twice that!  There are only long-term studies on people consuming up to 650 mg of caffeine per day (about 6 cups) and there are potential serious effects on that.  The so-called toxic dose is 10,000 mg (about 100 cups of coffee).  Even so, my partner is consuming what would be considered an "overdose"…and then some! His hands tremor, but otherwise, he is suffering no apparent ill effects.  I worry about ulcers and heart irregularities.  He has only been drinking this much for about the last year, since he quit drinking alcohol. I now have no doubts that he’s self-medicating undiagnosed ADD and I want him to get assessed.  I managed to convince him to cut back to 10 cups a day and gradually to 5 for the sake of his health. So far, so good. Has anyone else here tried to unknowingly self-medicate with caffeine to that extreme?  Does anyone here even know someone who drinks that much coffee consistently?

Before you buy.

Response:

I’ve got you all beat.. at work we make a POT of coffee using THREE scoops of CAFE BUSTELLO (expresso coffee) at home I make      A CUP of coffee using TWO SCOOPS (yes two scoops per cup) of the same coffee. (a scoop is 1/8 of a cup)

Ugh…I am literally shuddering at the thought of this.  For the record, as much as my partner loves his coffee, I hate the taste of it and your recipe sounds disgustingly bitter to me.   My reaction to the caffeine contained in colas and coffee:  I get horribly nauseous & shaky.  I haven’t let cola pass my lips in over 10 years because of this.   I prefer weak tea…with a packet of equal & lots of coffeemate. Briana

Response:

Expresso has less caffine than a lighter roast.  Also I don’t find it bitter at all if it is fresh which is why I make one cup at a time. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve got you all beat.. at work we make a POT of coffee using THREE scoops of CAFE BUSTELLO (expresso coffee) at home I make         A CUP of coffee using TWO SCOOPS (yes two scoops per cup) of the same coffee. (a scoop is 1/8 of a cup) Ugh…I am literally shuddering at the thought of this.  For the record, as much as my partner loves his coffee, I hate the taste of it and your recipe sounds disgustingly bitter to me.   My reaction to the caffeine contained in colas and coffee:  I get horribly nauseous & shaky.  I haven’t let cola pass my lips in over 10 years because of this.   I prefer weak tea…with a packet of equal & lots of coffeemate. Briana

– Nessa — If trains stop at trains stations, what happens at work stations?

Response:

Expresso has less caffine than a lighter roast.  Also I don’t find it bitter at all if it is fresh which is why I make one cup at a time.

i saw my gp today and tried to tell him some of my ‘difficulties’. so i mentioned that i drank loads and loads of coffee and he asked why and i said because it helps me function so he said ‘ah, you’re caffeine addicted.’. i mean , god, how the hell am i going to explaing to a shrink what my life is like when they have such answers parat ? they can only dx within their learned boundaries. i have appt. with shrink in two weeks. is it a good idea to phone with them first or write, or what ? sammi. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve got you all beat.. at work we make a POT of coffee using THREE scoops of CAFE BUSTELLO (expresso coffee) at home I make A CUP of coffee using TWO SCOOPS (yes two scoops per cup) of the same coffee. (a scoop is 1/8 of a cup) Ugh…I am literally shuddering at the thought of this.  For the record, as much as my partner loves his coffee, I hate the taste of it and your recipe sounds disgustingly bitter to me. My reaction to the caffeine contained in colas and coffee:  I get horribly nauseous & shaky.  I haven’t let cola pass my lips in over 10 years because of this. I prefer weak tea…with a packet of equal & lots of coffeemate. Briana — Nessa — If trains stop at trains stations, what happens at work stations?

Response:

If you feel that the central nervous system stimulant – alerting agent –  caffeine may be helpful to you, the best place to start is with your family doctor.  That’s what I did.  C. Thomas Wild The most notable behavioral effects of caffeine – increased alertness, energy, and ability to concentrate – occur after consumption of low to moderate doses (50-300 mg). Source:  http://pubs.acs.org/hotartcl/chemtech/99/jul/negli.html Attention Deficit Disorder: http://www.merck.com/pubs/mmanual/section19/chapter262/262d.htm http://www.angelfire.com/biz/addsyndrome/index.html http://homepages.msn.com/RightWay/c_thomas_wild Domeena C. Renshaw, M.D., in The Hyperactive Child, reports a study by Schnackenberg, who substituted caffeine for methylphenidate (Ritalin) in eleven children who were on the latter medication for their hyperkinetic symptoms.  She reports that his results with two cups of coffee (equivalent to 200-300 mg. caffeine) per day were as satisfactory as the amphetamines, at one tenth of the cost. There are a number of FDA approved medicines such as NoDoz which list caffeine as the active ingredient.  Often there are cautions such as too much caffeine may cause nervousness, irritability, sleeplessness and, occasionally, rapid heart beat.  The products are generally marketed for occasional use only and they are not intended for use as a substitute for sleep.  If a person wants to find out more about the products, the person should consult their family doctor.  That’s what I did. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In the midst of my recent efforts to have my daughter and myself assessed for ADD, my new partner and I attended a CHADD meeting. There was a presentation given on diagnosing adults by the woman who had recently assessed me. My partner suddenly began to wonder if he might have it and said he should get assessed.  As the meeting was breaking up and right in front of the presenter I asked him, "So you really think you may have ADD?" "Well, not as bad as you do." he said. "Perhaps if you didn’t drink so much coffee, you might think differently." The presenter pointed out, as I already knew, that some people self-medicate with caffeine. Then a couple of days later I asked my partner just how much coffee he consumes in a average day, because I knew he drank a lot, but I had no idea how much. He told me that he drinks an average of 20-22 mugs of coffee each day! I was shocked!  I have scoured the net for info on long-term health effects of consuming that much caffeine and there is none.  I don’t think anyone else drinks that much coffee…certainly no one that has been part of any study,  Excessive intake is said to be about 10 cups and he drinks twice that!  There are only long-term studies on people consuming up to 650 mg of caffeine per day (about 6 cups) and there are potential serious effects on that.  The so-called toxic dose is 10,000 mg (about 100 cups of coffee).  Even so, my partner is consuming what would be considered an "overdose"…and then some! His hands tremor, but otherwise, he is suffering no apparent ill effects.  I worry about ulcers and heart irregularities.  He has only been drinking this much for about the last year, since he quit drinking alcohol. I now have no doubts that he’s self-medicating undiagnosed ADD and I want him to get assessed.  I managed to convince him to cut back to 10 cups a day and gradually to 5 for the sake of his health. So far, so good. Has anyone else here tried to unknowingly self-medicate with caffeine to that extreme?  Does anyone here even know someone who drinks that much coffee consistently?

Before you buy.

Response:

Years ago, I came back from shore leave and discovered that the the hospital corpsman had hooked up an IV tube at my bunk–substituting a Coke bottle for the plasma. His explanation:  You drink so much of the stuff, you might as well main-line it. Paul

Response:

Years ago, I came back from shore leave and discovered that the the hospital corpsman had hooked up an IV tube at my bunk–substituting a Coke bottle for the plasma. His explanation:  You drink so much of the stuff, you might as well main-line it. Paul

My wife is a nurse, and I keep asking her to give me IV coffee.

Response:

Years ago, I came back from shore leave and discovered that the the hospital corpsman had hooked up an IV tube at my bunk–substituting a Coke bottle for the plasma. His explanation:  You drink so much of the stuff, you might as well main-line it. Paul My wife is a nurse, and I keep asking her to give me IV coffee.

You mean you have  blood in your coffee stream? — Nessa — does fuzzy logic tickle

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Years ago, I came back from shore leave and discovered that the the hospital corpsman had hooked up an IV tube at my bunk–substituting a Coke bottle for the plasma. His explanation:  You drink so much of the stuff, you might as well main-line it. Paul My wife is a nurse, and I keep asking her to give me IV coffee. You mean you have  blood in your coffee stream?

ROLF, or ROFL, or ROFLMAO or MFOSPALROFL err, shanks shor she shjoke, shbut shi shave shoo shlean she shreen shoff. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — Nessa — does fuzzy logic tickle

Response:

I’ve got you all beat.. at work we make a POT of coffee using THREE scoops of CAFE BUSTELLO (expresso coffee)

What?  You work at *my* office? That super-strong stuff smells good, but… ICK!!!  But then, I’ve never been much of a coffee drinker, unless it’s mocha.  Chewy, whose coffee you can float a horse shoe in, harasses me for liking a little coffee with my milk and sugar. — Light, Love, & Laughter, Kitten, Goddess of Mischief "Thousands of years ago, cats were worshipped as gods. Cats have never forgotten this." – Anonymous "Just for today, do not worry;  Just for today, do not anger; Earn your living honestly; Honor your parents, teachers and elders; Show gratitude for every living thing."- Dr. Mikao Usui Before you buy.

Response:

I’ve got you all beat.. at work we make a POT of coffee using THREE scoops of CAFE BUSTELLO (expresso coffee) at home I make  A CUP of coffee using TWO SCOOPS (yes two scoops per cup) of the same coffee. (a scoop is 1/8 of a cup) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – When I was finally diagnosed at age 40 I was drinking between ten and fifteen pints of coffee per day … often instant coffee with a TABLESPOON of granules per cup. I find the International Coffees** make a wonderful creamer, especially with espresso…. AmMen **International Coffees are a line of instant coffee mixed with flavorings, sugar, and HeavenKnowsWhat. Before you buy.

– Nessa — does fuzzy logic tickle

Response:

  Has anyone else here tried to unknowingly self-medicate with caffeine   to that extreme?  Does anyone here even know someone who drinks that much coffee consistently?

I drank coffee from the age of about eight or nine … as a kid I would take a 30 oz flask of black coffee to school. In those days we had free school milk, so I would have half the coffee at morning break with the milk, and keep the rest for lunch. When I was finally diagnosed at age 40 I was drinking between ten and fifteen pints of coffee per day … often instant coffee with a TABLESPOON of granules per cup. What was interesting was that I didn’t get any sort of buzz, and could stop for a few days without any withdrawal symptoms apart from feeling more " unfocussed " Ian Ford

Response:

When I was finally diagnosed at age 40 I was drinking between ten and fifteen pints of coffee per day … often instant coffee with a TABLESPOON of granules per cup.

I find the International Coffees** make a wonderful creamer, especially with espresso…. AmMen **International Coffees are a line of instant coffee mixed with flavorings, sugar, and HeavenKnowsWhat. Before you buy.

Response:

Curious…. I remember hearing about a kind of bottled water with caffeine added to it(don’t remember brand name, tho). Anyone try to make coffee with *that*? Buny

Response:

His hands tremor, but otherwise, he is suffering no apparent ill effects.

It is possible that the tremors in the hands could be the result od something besides the caffeine (*could*).  My famyl has a history of hand tremors, which is a benign condition called "familial tremor" or "essential tremor".  It has to do with overcompensating for fine motor skills. http://www.parkinsonsinstitute.org/tremor.html Even though this says "parkinson’s", ET is *not* parkinson’s syndrome. Some things can make my hands tremor more-caffeine is one of them. Fatigue, stress(physical or emotional) can do it.   So are certain medications, such as my asthma meds.  But even when not on these meds, or when I got "off" of caffeine, my hands still tremor to some degree. Then again, his tremors can be something else entirely.  Like ADHD, it is a matter of finding out what it is *not* before one discovers what it *is*. Buny

Response:

[...] I now have no doubts that he’s self-medicating undiagnosed ADD and I want him to get assessed.  I managed to convince him to cut back to 10 cups a day and gradually to 5 for the sake of his health. So far, so good. Has anyone else here tried to unknowingly self-medicate with caffeine to that extreme?  Does anyone here even know someone who drinks that much coffee consistently?

ADDers do not measure coffee consumption in cups; the pot is the standard measure. Cutting back to 5 is good for your health. I might be exaggerating slightly, but perhaps the answer to your question is ‘yes’?

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [...] I now have no doubts that he’s self-medicating undiagnosed ADD and I want him to get assessed.  I managed to convince him to cut back to 10 cups a day and gradually to 5 for the sake of his health. So far, so good. Has anyone else here tried to unknowingly self-medicate with caffeine to that extreme?  Does anyone here even know someone who drinks that much coffee consistently? ADDers do not measure coffee consumption in cups; the pot is the standard measure. Cutting back to 5 is good for your health.

Yup…5 pots George I might be exaggerating slightly, but perhaps the answer to your question is ‘yes’?

Before you buy.

Response:

In the midst of my recent efforts to have my daughter and myself assessed for ADD, my new partner and I attended a CHADD meeting. There was a presentation given on diagnosing adults by the woman who had recently assessed me. My partner suddenly began to wonder if he might have it and said he should get assessed.  As the meeting was breaking up and right in front of the presenter I asked him, "So you really think you may have ADD?" "Well, not as bad as you do." he said. "Perhaps if you didn’t drink so much coffee, you might think differently." The presenter pointed out, as I already knew, that some people self-medicate with caffeine. Then a couple of days later I asked my partner just how much coffee he consumes in a average day, because I knew he drank a lot, but I had no idea how much. He told me that he drinks an average of 20-22 mugs of coffee each day! I was shocked!  I have scoured the net for info on long-term health effects of consuming that much caffeine and there is none.  I don’t think anyone else drinks that much coffee…certainly no one that has been part of any study,  Excessive intake is said to be about 10 cups and he drinks twice that!  There are only long-term studies on people consuming up to 650 mg of caffeine per day (about 6 cups) and there are potential serious effects on that.  The so-called toxic dose is 10,000 mg (about 100 cups of coffee).  Even so, my partner is consuming what would be considered an "overdose"…and then some! His hands tremor, but otherwise, he is suffering no apparent ill effects.  I worry about ulcers and heart irregularities.  He has only been drinking this much for about the last year, since he quit drinking alcohol. I now have no doubts that he’s self-medicating undiagnosed ADD and I want him to get assessed.  I managed to convince him to cut back to 10 cups a day and gradually to 5 for the sake of his health. So far, so good. Has anyone else here tried to unknowingly self-medicate with caffeine to that extreme?  Does anyone here even know someone who drinks that much coffee consistently?

Response:

snip His hands tremor, but otherwise, he is suffering no apparent ill effects.  I worry about ulcers and heart irregularities.

I did that once in grad school.  Ulcers are generally caused by bacteria or non-steroidal anti-inflamatory drugs.  High coffee intake can cause cardiac arrhythmias.  It’s pretty spooky but it goes away. He has only been drinking this much for about the last year, since he quit drinking alcohol. I now have no doubts that he’s self-medicating undiagnosed ADD and I want him to get assessed.  I managed to convince him to cut back to 10 cups a day and gradually to 5 for the sake of his health. So far, so good. Has anyone else here tried to unknowingly self-medicate with caffeine to that extreme?  Does anyone here even know someone who drinks that much coffee consistently?

It’s pretty hard to figure caffeine levels because it’s quite easy to make a cup of coffee four times as strong as the average weak North American coffee.  I could fix 5 cups that would have as much caffeine as 20 restaurant cups. – George Before you buy.

Response:

Question:

Hi Charla, Thanks for the response.  Gradual is ok with me, so just getting past some of the things that would otherwise stress me out even while on xanax is an indication the Zoloft may be doing some good? I’m glad you didn’t mind my ‘oh so detailed’ rambling.  I was a great student in creative writing in highschool. little bear–who is feeling better just from writing that post last night; theraputic, it was  to get all my ducks in a row….especially after all of the crap about Zoloft hitting this board recently. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Little Bear, I can not translate sorry. But I find your spirit and strength unbeatable in the face of adversary. IME with Zoloft being the first and only AD Ive taken..I could evaluate it helping me in times of trouble..because I did not react as intensly to the stressors. eg. My husband gets layed off,we were living at my moms,a five month old at the time..Snow piling up outside as high as the fence it dawns on me something is working. I was  relaxed and accepting of the circumstance.. I think when you have found the right mg range with the right AD you gradually see results. For me it did not just happen it was a gradual.I did not know when it started working..I just started feeling better. BTW I like your detailed post..:-) Hope all gets better soon Charla — Being safe is about being seen and heard and allowed to be who you are and to speak your truth.                                    —Rachel Naomi Remen,M.D. Hi Everyone! I have been ready to post this for a couple of days now but with all the b*llshit that’s been going on here (of which I admit to being a part of) along with some personal stuff, I just haven’t gotten around to it. I want to let you know how my meds are doing compared to before and just give you my updated condition, and hope to hear from many of you telling me I’m healed  LOL. No, really, just let me know how you think I’m doing as I am a first timer on the AD thing and a long time xanax friend, as well as pain meds which tend also to produce a false sense of well-being. If it were one or the other, I know it would be much simpler to evaluate my progress so please bear with me. (PUN CERTAINLY INTENDED.  ALL RIGHTY THEN, LET’S GET STARTED <g) As you may remember my problems started about 3yrs ago with horrible back pain. I was temporarily living in a town of about 10,000 after being transferred from a mega-city on the west coast.  I saw any and all available docs but I believe I was clearly out of thier league and a bit of a mystery to boot. I had two kids and was a stay at home mom for the first time in my life. (And I’m old <VBG, more than 20 but less than 42). Eventually, after MRI’s and xrays, and limited bloodwork including thyroid, I was told I had no strength in my back and was sent to PT.  This was a joke indeed.  I might as well have been in a 4th grade P.E. class–no hands on, no direction etc.I had no improvement with my back pain but within about 3mos, I had the first of three consecutive PA’s.  Of course, I had no Idea what was happening to me but the ER diagnosed them and a visit to a GP the next day confirmed it. So, that was that; I was given .25mgs xanax twice daily.  I was given very little info about benzos but I assure you, I was miserable enough with the accompaning symptoms (GAD in a nutshell )-) that I would have gladly taken them anyway.  I would have done anything to escape that awful panic/nervousness I was racked with.  And they did the trick. After a year we moved back to the big city.  I became close to a neighbor whos husband had eerily similar symptoms as mine (back and anxiety) and she recommended a doc that was supposedly the finest in his field so I called.  I was desperate by then with my back pain and the panic escalated accordingly.  I was told he was not taking new patients and I quite literally would not hang up, and I cried on the phone basically begging for an appt. until they set me up for 3mos later.  So, I had something to look forward to finally!  This was the time that I thought I could wean off of the xanax (I had learned more about the dependance issue by this time) and I weaned very slowly-or so I thought but I was hit with a series of PA’s almost exactly like the ones a year earlier. A quick call to the doc in the little town on the prairie got me scolded for going off of them with no direction or support and I was back on them but this time at .5mgs 3/day to get the GAD back under control.  I have since (stupidly) tried to stop them again, but I always had other things going on and the GAD was always present so I don’t know what I was thinking except that I wanted to know that I was in control of my own body (I don’t even want to go there). IOW, it was always a huge mistake. In the year since I started seeing this back specialist (he found 3 buldging dics in my back–two in my neck and one in my upper back. He showed me the MRI I had taken in the little town and even I could see them. So, I have endured about 10 cortisone/lidocaine injections either epidural or facet joint injections and have regained full range of motion in my neck and back but the "knife in the back" pain was still there, as painful as ever. When it was clear the injections had done all they could, I was sent on to PT. BTW, this doc is very particular and insists on specific specialists when he refers me, and I go because he obviously knows what he is doing.  I have been seeing a PT doc for about 2mos now and she is marvelous! (So was the shot guy TTTT) My back has been getting better…so much so that I no longer fear some terminal illness the way I constantly used to.  Between the three of these specialists I was finally finding answers to the pain in the back and even relief!   Now, keep in mind, and you might remember I went on Wellbutrin to quit smoking (when hubby had pneumonia in July) and though I did quit smoking (HOORAY FOR ME!!!) the Wellbutrin just about did me in. I was a screaming, sweaty, panicky mess–24hrs a day for about 9wks I think. To be fair, for those of you who are new to this group, I was warned by some of our veterans about Wellbutrin and that it would not be a good choice for someone already suffering anxiety. But for a few reasons, I took it anyway, quit smoking and proved our experts to be experts.  I reacted word for word the way I was warned I would. It was awful but YMMV when it comes to meds. It just wasn’t right for me.  I was then put on Zoloft 50mgs daily and was still getting better in the back pain department.  I had no bad side effects from the Zoloft (some sweating and a little irritablity at first but was immediately better when I put down the Wellbutrin so it’s difficult to say whether it was getting off the W and on the Z or both.  Anyway, out of the blue during PT, it was discovered I have an internal impingement on my right shoulder.  Off to another specialist who says no more PT until he fixes my shoulder either with cortisone injections or simple surgery. H gave me a shot in the bursa? and my elbow was stuck to my waistline for a week. Right arm too….bummer.  The problem is that while I am away from ‘hands on’ PT, my back muscles go back into spasms and my neck tightens up and all of the progress I’ve made is fading quickly.  I am having a bit more difficulty getting in touch with the shoulder doc so no MRI has been scheduled yet and I’m hanging in limbo.  My PT is frustrated for obvious reasons–things were going so well. Let me be clear on something here: when I say my back got so much better, it is to say that the pain went from unbearable to bearable and I was able to move again and because of that progress, I was mentally more at ease (and I always believed the pain caused the anxiety since I could think of nothing else).  Anyway, during the Wellbutrin phase, I was up to the max xanax dose for me 2.5-3mgs daily. It was awful. With the Zoloft, so far 5-6wks? I am down to .25mgs 3/day. But I can feel the urge to take more while I go through the return of the back pain and watching all that progress go down the drain. I may need to go up another .25 each day–either that or chew my lips off, grit my teeth (Oh yeah, I had 3 crowns done last month-I consider dental work a setback just for existing!) or get angry all the time, etc.  See, I was so looking forward to the AD taking over for the xanax–I just knew that Zoloft was the answer.  I feel sorta good on it; I am cautiously optimistic. Now I don’t know what to expect or how I should proceed. I know I have bored you silly—-I don’t know why my posts are always so long.  I guess I don’t want to miss anything and then I read your posts that are so clear and concise and to the point……But I had so many points <BG I look forward to your observations regarding the Zoloft, how much better do you think I should expect to get. How do I know if it’s the right one for me, and isn’t it a bitch that just when I might be able to pull everything together, half of it falls apart. I’m not going to know if the Zoloft helps my anxiety until I have a normal, calm, regular period of time in my life to evaluate it. What I mean is, the thought of the back pain returning in it’s original form is enough to scare the crap out of me. And then there’s the holidays….OMG, don’t know if I am going to make it. Thanks everyone who took the time to read this in it’s entirety.  I look forward to any responses at all. little bear–who

… read more »

Response:

Hi Cheryl, I  have responded in length to other’s posts to this thread and I guess I’ve said all that can be said (hopefully, ASAP is secretely thinking). But thanks for sharing your coffee with me this morning and for your kind words. The "Jim Carrey on Acid:" cracked me up.  See, I can be cracked up. That hasn’t been true for months and months.  Thank you for your prayers, I believe they help–I really do. little bear-who needs a nap now (see you in 6mo) NOT :0} – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Little Bear,   I wish I could help you with the Zoloft issue…but I am on Remeron and I have been on Wellbutrin and it made me nuts!  Jim Carrey on Acid so to speak!  Anyway, your story brought tears to my eyes.  I can identify, being chronically ill myself.  I know the vicious vicious cycles it produces, the one illness festering into another into another.  I am on pain meds myself and the "false sense of well being" really hit me.  When I take them it’s the ONLY time I feel "normal."  Little Bear, you have been through so much and I think you have maintained your sense of self, humor and faith. Just know you are not alone…and I am here and we are all here for you. And I love long posts, I kick back with the old cup of coffee and feel like you are right in my living room.  God bless you, friend.  I will keep you in my prayers and mostly in my thoughts. Hi Everyone! I have been ready to post this for a couple of days now but with all the b*llshit that’s been going on here (of which I admit to being a part of) along with some personal stuff, I just haven’t gotten around to it. I want to let you know how my meds are doing compared to before and just give you my updated condition, and hope to hear from many of you telling me I’m healed  LOL. No, really, just let me know how you think I’m doing as I am a first timer on the AD thing and a long time xanax friend, as well as pain meds which tend also to produce a false sense of well-being. If it were one or the other, I know it would be much simpler to evaluate my progress so please bear with me. (PUN CERTAINLY INTENDED.  ALL RIGHTY THEN, LET’S GET STARTED <g) As you may remember my problems started about 3yrs ago with horrible back pain. I was temporarily living in a town of about 10,000 after being transferred from a mega-city on the west coast.  I saw any and all available docs but I believe I was clearly out of thier league and a bit of a mystery to boot. I had two kids and was a stay at home mom for the first time in my life. (And I’m old <VBG, more than 20 but less than 42). Eventually, after MRI’s and xrays, and limited bloodwork including thyroid, I was told I had no strength in my back and was sent to PT.  This was a joke indeed.  I might as well have been in a 4th grade P.E. class–no hands on, no direction etc.I had no improvement with my back pain but within about 3mos, I had the first of three consecutive PA’s.  Of course, I had no Idea what was happening to me but the ER diagnosed them and a visit to a GP the next day confirmed it. So, that was that; I was given .25mgs xanax twice daily.  I was given very little info about benzos but I assure you, I was miserable enough with the accompaning symptoms (GAD in a nutshell )-) that I would have gladly taken them anyway.  I would have done anything to escape that awful panic/nervousness I was racked with.  And they did the trick. After a year we moved back to the big city.  I became close to a neighbor whos husband had eerily similar symptoms as mine (back and anxiety) and she recommended a doc that was supposedly the finest in his field so I called.  I was desperate by then with my back pain and the panic escalated accordingly.  I was told he was not taking new patients and I quite literally would not hang up, and I cried on the phone basically begging for an appt. until they set me up for 3mos later.  So, I had something to look forward to finally!  This was the time that I thought I could wean off of the xanax (I had learned more about the dependance issue by this time) and I weaned very slowly-or so I thought but I was hit with a series of PA’s almost exactly like the ones a year earlier. A quick call to the doc in the little town on the prairie got me scolded for going off of them with no direction or support and I was back on them but this time at .5mgs 3/day to get the GAD back under control.  I have since (stupidly) tried to stop them again, but I always had other things going on and the GAD was always present so I don’t know what I was thinking except that I wanted to know that I was in control of my own body (I don’t even want to go there). IOW, it was always a huge mistake. In the year since I started seeing this back specialist (he found 3 buldging dics in my back–two in my neck and one in my upper back. He showed me the MRI I had taken in the little town and even I could see them. So, I have endured about 10 cortisone/lidocaine injections either epidural or facet joint injections and have regained full range of motion in my neck and back but the "knife in the back" pain was still there, as painful as ever. When it was clear the injections had done all they could, I was sent on to PT. BTW, this doc is very particular and insists on specific specialists when he refers me, and I go because he obviously knows what he is doing.  I have been seeing a PT doc for about 2mos now and she is marvelous! (So was the shot guy TTTT) My back has been getting better…so much so that I no longer fear some terminal illness the way I constantly used to.  Between the three of these specialists I was finally finding answers to the pain in the back and even relief!   Now, keep in mind, and you might remember I went on Wellbutrin to quit smoking (when hubby had pneumonia in July) and though I did quit smoking (HOORAY FOR ME!!!) the Wellbutrin just about did me in. I was a screaming, sweaty, panicky mess–24hrs a day for about 9wks I think. To be fair, for those of you who are new to this group, I was warned by some of our veterans about Wellbutrin and that it would not be a good choice for someone already suffering anxiety. But for a few reasons, I took it anyway, quit smoking and proved our experts to be experts.  I reacted word for word the way I was warned I would. It was awful but YMMV when it comes to meds. It just wasn’t right for me.  I was then put on Zoloft 50mgs daily and was still getting better in the back pain department.  I had no bad side effects from the Zoloft (some sweating and a little irritablity at first but was immediately better when I put down the Wellbutrin so it’s difficult to say whether it was getting off the W and on the Z or both.  Anyway, out of the blue during PT, it was discovered I have an internal impingement on my right shoulder.  Off to another specialist who says no more PT until he fixes my shoulder either with cortisone injections or simple surgery. H gave me a shot in the bursa? and my elbow was stuck to my waistline for a week. Right arm too….bummer.  The problem is that while I am away from ‘hands on’ PT, my back muscles go back into spasms and my neck tightens up and all of the progress I’ve made is fading quickly.  I am having a bit more difficulty getting in touch with the shoulder doc so no MRI has been scheduled yet and I’m hanging in limbo.  My PT is frustrated for obvious reasons–things were going so well. Let me be clear on something here: when I say my back got so much better, it is to say that the pain went from unbearable to bearable and I was able to move again and because of that progress, I was mentally more at ease (and I always believed the pain caused the anxiety since I could think of nothing else).  Anyway, during the Wellbutrin phase, I was up to the max xanax dose for me 2.5-3mgs daily.  It was awful. With the Zoloft, so far 5-6wks? I am down to .25mgs 3/day. But I can feel the urge to take more while I go through the return of the back pain and watching all that progress go down the drain. I may need to go up another .25 each day–either that or chew my lips off, grit my teeth (Oh yeah, I had 3 crowns done last month-I consider dental work a setback just for existing!) or get angry all the time, etc.  See, I was so looking forward to the AD taking over for the xanax–I just knew that Zoloft was the answer.  I feel sorta good on it; I am cautiously optimistic. Now I don’t know what to expect or how I should proceed. I know I have bored you silly—-I don’t know why my posts are always so long.  I guess I don’t want to miss anything and then I read your posts that are so clear and concise and to the point……But I had so many points <BG I look forward to your observations regarding the Zoloft, how much better do you think I should expect to get. How do I know if it’s the right one for me, and isn’t it a bitch that just when I might be able to pull everything together, half of it falls apart. I’m not going to know if the Zoloft helps my anxiety until I have a normal, calm, regular period of time in my life to evaluate it. What I mean is, the thought of the back pain returning in it’s original form is enough to scare the crap out of me. And then there’s the holidays….OMG, don’t know if I am going to make it. Thanks everyone who took the time to read this in it’s entirety.  I look forward to any

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Response:

Hi Chip, Good to hear from you!  First of all, don’t I know how complicated my situation is.  That is why it is so difficult to get a handle on any progress made and being terrified to let any of it go (the back thing). Let me itemize a bit. Smoking-easy as could be to stop, never had an urge since. Can take it or leave it for friends and family–would never preach. I always take my meds as prescribed. Never one for the other or vice versa. I do not drink alcohol at all anymore. I used to love it. Problem is, I take pain meds and xanax from the time I get up in the AM every four hours. I am on a pain mgt program so I don’t wait for the pain.  And I just happen to take the xanax at the same time. So if I were to lack one or the other, it would feel the same I’ve been living with the back and shoulder thing for 3yrs, it is better than it has ever been–and I’m mentally better for it, but I also fear a huge setback if this shoulder thing isn’t taken care of soon. I’m comfortable with all of my docs–no added anxiety there, though the shoulder guy could use a better bedside manner and might have warned me about the shoulder pain that resulted from the injection. Also, I would be less stressed if he would call back so we can get going on this. Ironically, my old insurance runs out end of Nov. and is currently paying 100% due I have met max out of pocket for year (boy, that says something doesn’t it?) Holiday season? Can’t avoid it, can I.  So I’ll just blow them away with gourmet stuffings and mouth watering desserts.  Nothing traditional–I need to occupy my mind and feed my ego <VBG.  I got through my husbands near fatal illness this summer without a scratch. You were all a tremendous help (for the 40th time). My husband is the kind of man who takes me as I am. The other morning (the shoulder morning) I walked into the bathroom when he was showering and said, "you know, I think you may want to trade me in on a newer model with a good warranty program, as it seems I’m falling apart a little more each day".  He said, "yeah, but if I recall, I got a lifetime guarantee when I married you". I bitch about him sometimes but he is head and shoulders above any other man I (personally know). And I love him dearly with never a doubt he feels the same way.  How do I rate my recovery?  Well, I feel real happiness for the first time in a long time. I get through situations normally considered difficult, with much more ease. I can go a bit longer between xanax doses. Yesterday I went 7 1/2 hrs (and though you may think they would, pain meds do not control anxiety at all!) And I no longer feel euphoria when taking my pain meds–that pleasant effect lasted a very short time……so I take them on the theory that if I don’t and my back flares up, we can undo much of what we have accomplished.  Much like the situation I face with the shoulder.  My PT is so upset–she could probably use about .25mgs Well Chip, you said all comments were welcome and I handed you a few to get started with but if I had to grade myself it would probably look something like this:  1996-F   1997-F  1998-F 1999 C+ / B- depending on the day–now that is just for my mental state and anxiety. Unfortunately, since my mental outlook depends so much on my physical health, it’s like a yo-yo.  Oh, yeah, nearly forgot–before the Zoloft, I had constant fears of having cancer or any one of 20 different horrible diseases. I tortured myself with thoughts of ‘who will take care of my family when I go’. That seems silly to me now, but it was very real believe me.  I also think the Zoloft has given me the gift of GAB as it works to control the gift of GAD. little bear Little Bear, I know for my recurrant depression and panic anxiety (with agoraphobia) I need a "cocktail" of meds including Klonopin 2 mg/day, Zoloft 150 mg/day, desipramine 50 mg/day, and p.r.n.  Xanax ranging from 0.5 to 1.5 mg/day. It can take time to find the right mixture of meds to make you feel better. And that mixture can change from time to time as your body adjusts to the chronic administration of your meds. You have the additional problems of back and shoulder pain which makes your situation even more complex than mine. I would advise taking pain meds for pain, and anti-anxiety meds for anxiety. I.E. don’t take more Xanax because you have increased back or shoulder pain! (take pain meds) It’s difficult for me to judge how you are doing because you have introduded so many variables into your equation (panic anxiety, cig smoking, back and shoulder pain, fear of "terminal" illness, stress over husband’s illness this past summer,  multiple care providers, upcoming holiday season, etc). Plus, you are married to a man and I know how difficult we can be to live with sometimes! How would you translate your progress? How are you feeling these days? How do you think you are doing? All comments and observations are welcome!! You seem to be in good spirits. Chip my progress? Hi Everyone! I have been ready to post this for a couple of days now but with all the b*llshit that’s been going on here (of which I admit to being a part of) along with some personal stuff, I just haven’t gotten around to it. I want to let you know how my meds are doing compared to before and just give you my updated condition, and hope to hear from many of you telling me I’m healed LOL. No, really, just let me know how you think I’m doing as I am a first timer on the AD thing and a long time xanax friend, as well as pain meds which tend also to produce a false sense of well-being. If it were one or the other, I know it would be much simpler to evaluate my progress so please bear with me. (PUN CERTAINLY INTENDED. ALL RIGHTY THEN, LET’S GET STARTED <g) As you may remember my problems started about 3yrs ago with horrible back pain. I was temporarily living in a town of about 10,000 after being transferred from a mega-city on the west coast. I saw any and all available docs but I believe I was clearly out of thier league and a bit of a mystery to boot. I had two kids and was a stay at home mom for the first time in my life. (And I’m old <VBG, more than 20 but less than 42). Eventually, after MRI’s and xrays, and limited bloodwork including thyroid, I was told I had no strength in my back and was sent to PT. This was a joke indeed. I might as well have been in a 4th grade P.E. class–no hands on, no direction etc.I had no improvement with my back pain but within about 3mos, I had the first of three consecutive PA’s. Of course, I had no Idea what was happening to me but the ER diagnosed them and a visit to a GP the next day confirmed it. So, that was that; I was given .25mgs xanax twice daily. I was given very little info about benzos but I assure you, I was miserable enough with the accompaning symptoms (GAD in a nutshell )-) that I would have gladly taken them anyway. I would have done anything to escape that awful panic/nervousness I was racked with. And they did the trick. After a year we moved back to the big city. I became close to a neighbor whos husband had eerily similar symptoms as mine (back and anxiety) and she recommended a doc that was supposedly the finest in his field so I called. I was desperate by then with my back pain and the panic escalated accordingly. I was told he was not taking new patients and I quite literally would not hang up, and I cried on the phone basically begging for an appt. until they set me up for 3mos later. So, I had something to look forward to finally! This was the time that I thought I could wean off of the xanax (I had learned more about the dependance issue by this time) and I weaned very slowly-or so I thought but I was hit with a series of PA’s almost exactly like the ones a year earlier. A quick call to the doc in the little town on the prairie got me scolded for going off of them with no direction or support and I was back on them but this time at .5mgs 3/day to get the GAD back under control. I have since (stupidly) tried to stop them again, but I always had other things going on and the GAD was always present so I don’t know what I was thinking except that I wanted to know that I was in control of my own body (I don’t even want to go there). IOW, it was always a huge mistake. In the year since I started seeing this back specialist (he found 3 buldging dics in my back–two in my neck and one in my upper back. He showed me the MRI I had taken in the little town and even I could see them. So, I have endured about 10 cortisone/lidocaine injections either epidural or facet joint injections and have regained full range of motion in my neck and back but the "knife in the back" pain was still there, as painful as ever. When it was clear the injections had done all they could, I was sent on to PT. BTW, this doc is very particular and insists on specific specialists when he refers me, and I go because he obviously knows what he is doing. I have been seeing a PT doc for about 2mos now and she is marvelous! (So was the shot guy TTTT) My back has been getting better…so much so that I no longer fear some terminal illness the way I constantly used to. Between the three of these specialists I was finally finding answers to the pain in the back and even relief!

Question:

UGH!!!   I am on Zoloft once again and absolutely hate it!!  Your not kidding when you say it does help w/the obsession with food but I hate feeling no emotions whatsoever.    

I just got put on Prozac. When I was on Zoloft and Lithium I just had no emotion and just gained weight.  Lithium does that.  I don’t even know WHY I was put on lithium. I mean, where were the highs and hyperness? Any way, I’m not happy about being put back on the meds. *hugs* Ne

Response:

UGH!!!   I am on Zoloft once again and absolutely hate it!!  Your not kidding when you say it does help w/the obsession with food but I hate feeling no emotions whatsoever.    By the way,  has your doctor ever mentioned Luvox to you before??  It is a good med for obsess/compuls. disorder which, in a way, goes hand in hand with bing/purg.   It isn’t quite so brutal on the sex drive part(that is if you are disliking that particular side effect of Zoloft…)     If you are not that depressed then you may want to ask about Luvox(I had to switch from Luvox to Zoloft because it wasn’t as effective on the depression stuff).    That’s all.  Just wanted to put my 2 cents in. — For more information about this service, send e-mail to:

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