Question:

I take lots of inhalers and have just tried Singulair. How long does it take to start working?

When I was in the worst of the year-long attack I had, I felt the effects of Singulair immediately. Now I wonder whether it’s working at all, but it must be because I get worse if I miss taking it.

Response:

I take lots of inhalers and have just tried Singulair. How long does it take to start working? It doesn’t seem to do anything. It is always hard for me to tell what works since I run into triggers off and on. With that and delayed reactions, it is hard to play detective and tell what is due to what. Thanks for the help.

I found it worked within the first few days.  But it appears to be effect for only 2/3 of the people taking it.  You may be in the 1/3. Check with your allergist.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I started it on Tuesday of this week and my experience is it worked almost immediately. My wife said I slept so well…no coughing and no snoring either ( I have sleep apnea….not using my Bi-PAP now because of the 4-5 weeks I’ve had lung problems). She said I hardly moved all night long. YMMV….this is just my experience   Wow! Me too! I had been using my Proventil inhaler regularly along with Serevent. The Dr. put me back on Flovent and added Singulair. I haven’t needed the Proventil even once since then. Since I believe the Flovent takes some time to start working I’m convinced that the Singulair did the job. I’m not 100% better yet – my lungs still hurt when I take a deep breath. But I’m very much improved! Debi

Singulair is practically my god…within 24 hours I felt a *huge* effect. I now use proventil as a rescue inhaler maybe once a week, as opposed to the once/twice/even three times a day I used to have to use it. —  Karen Ingraffea  "I might be a coward; I’m afraid of what I might find out…" -(The Mighty Mighty Bosstones) The Impression That I Get "All things being equal, you lose." -Anon

Response:

I started it on Tuesday of this week and my experience is it worked almost immediately. My wife said I slept so well…no coughing and no snoring either ( I have sleep apnea….not using my Bi-PAP now because of the 4-5 weeks I’ve had lung problems). She said I hardly moved all night long. YMMV….this is just my experience

  Wow! Me too! I had been using my Proventil inhaler regularly along with Serevent. The Dr. put me back on Flovent and added Singulair. I haven’t needed the Proventil even once since then. Since I believe the Flovent takes some time to start working I’m convinced that the Singulair did the job. I’m not 100% better yet – my lungs still hurt when I take a deep breath. But I’m very much improved! Debi

Response:

Your insert should supply this information. If not your pharmacist will tell you.

Response:

I take lots of inhalers and have just tried Singulair. How long does it take to start working? It doesn’t seem to do anything. It is always hard for me to tell what works since I run into triggers off and on. With that and delayed reactions, it is hard to play detective and tell what is due to what. Thanks for the help.

Generally, about 30 days is considered an adequate time to tell if it is or is not working. It’s a terrible responsibility – but somebody has to be the Americans.

Response:

I started it on Tuesday of this week and my experience is it worked almost immediately. My wife said I slept so well…no coughing and no snoring either ( I have sleep apnea….not using my Bi-PAP now because of the 4-5 weeks I’ve had lung problems). She said I hardly moved all night long. YMMV….this is just my experience * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

I take lots of inhalers and have just tried Singulair. How long does it take to start working? It doesn’t seem to do anything. It is always hard for me to tell what works since I run into triggers off and on. With that and delayed reactions, it is hard to play detective and tell what is due to what. Thanks for the help. Before you buy.

Response:

Question:

Bill has probably posted relevant, pertinent cites, but I’m wondering if someone might be able to either a) point me in the direction of info. on these meds, particularly the new one, singulair, and how they work, versus how steriods work, what’s the downside etc., or b)  summarize the info. in relatively easy to understand, non-jargonese.  Thanks a lot. Merril, writing from  where it’s -25 still, but warm enough that my cold induced attacks have stopped — and which I won’t seek advice on again since starting the last match.

Response:

Bill has probably posted relevant, pertinent cites, but I’m wondering if someone might be able to either a) point me in the direction of info. on these meds, particularly the new one, singulair, and how they work, versus how steriods work, what’s the downside etc., or b)  summarize the info. in relatively easy to understand, non-jargonese.  Thanks a lot.

You can try:http://www.ama-assn.org/special/asthma/treatmnt/guide/guidelin/comp3/… A promotional site for Accolate (which is similar to Singular) is at: http://www.ama-assn.org/special/asthma/zeneca/about/default.htm This has information on Leukotrines and Leukotrine receptor agonists (Singulair is a Lueknotine receptor agonist).

Response:

Question:

::Hi, Philip, ::No I didn’t know that.  Today I did NOT have a cig.  I hope to be smoke-free ::as of today… C*O*N*G*R*A*T*U*L*A*T*I*O*N*S!!!!! Wishing you continued success with being smoke-free. (((((Elise))))) Jackie ~*~When they discover the center of the universe, a lot of people will be disappointed to discover they are not it~*~           ~~ Bernard Bailey

That is SO WONDERFUL!!!  I am so proud of you! (((((((Elise))))))) Sally — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, Sally, My appt isn’t until Tuesday but at least I have that to look forward to. Same here with the leaves.  Then many seem to land right in front of my garage door. We keep the doors down so the leaves aren’t all in the garage. Any bites on the house? smiles, Elise I am SO GLAD you get to go to the doctor tomorrow.  You really need that appointment.  Isn’t this wind something else??  We have no trees in our yard, but thanks to the wind, I have about as many leaves as the rest of the neighbors.  Not only that, but the wind blew down my For Sale sign, and I had to put it back up, and the bird bath keeps filling up with leaves!!!!  Grab on to something and hold on so you don’t blow away!! ((((((((((((((((((u))))))))))))))))))))) Sally

Elise, I’ve got that exact same thing with my garage door. What’s up with that?  Why do all the leaves congregate right at the door?? No, so far we haven’t had an offers on the house.  I’m getting lookers about every other day now.  My aunt keeps telling me that all I need is just ONE buyer..so I’ve got my fingers crossed.  Thanks for asking. Sally — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi, Dawn, I wish I knew what to say to make it all better for you.  Not being an expert in anything psychological, I am not sure how suppressed feelings effect one’s well being, and if there is a benefit to getting them out.   Logic says yes, but that sure doesn’t help the way you are feeling.

***Right now I have mixed feelings over it.  I’ve wanted my emotional being back for a long time but now that it seems to be coming through I have some fears of how it will affect me.  I keep trying to remind myself that much of what I feel is natural and that’s it’s all been locked up in there for so long…  I need to remember to deep breath and do self-positive talk. I also wish I could help with the Wellbutrin. I have considered it myself to counterbalance my sedating (ha–not for me!) AD, but am not sure about the stimulating effect it is purported to have.   It does sound like it’s working for you to some degree. Weight loss is a good thing, right?  I’m with you there .

***Yes, weight loss has been an issue for me for a long time with the ADs. I really want to lose some weight before my daughter’s wedding.  I think I need to ask the phy asst what to expect from upping the med.  I really should be on 300 mgs by now but I took such a long time getting off the Zoloft hoping NOT to need an AD that I’m way behind where I should be.  Oh well, I’ll probably hear about that…ugh! I don’t know what else is happening in your life, but I hope that things get better and easier for you very soon.  If you posted about it, I apologize for missing it.  I miss a lot of posts.

***No, I haven’t posted about many of the issues going on in my life.  I always try to be the problem solver and not the person needing help.  Stupid me…at times. I hope things are going well for you, Dawn… smiles, Elise ((((((((((((Elise))))))))))))) Love, Dawn — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

::And yes there are many things going on in my life also now I am down to 1 ::cig a day (and have been for 2 weeks now). Dear Elise, It`s very important you tell your the NP on Tuesday that you have almost quit smoking. From a few of your posts today I get the feeling you are suffering from depression. Of course only your doctor can tell you that for sure. Smoking may have been a way of self-medicating your depression. I remember a famous NY baseball player in 97 that suffered a bad depression after he quit smoking. Just wanted to make sure you mention this to your doctor. (((((Elise)))))

I had the same thing happen but the other way around.  As soon as I started Nortriptyline, without trying or giving it any thought, I went from about 20 a day to 5 a day.  I wish I could just quit all together! Tono — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

::Hi, Philip, ::No I didn’t know that.  Today I did NOT have a cig.  I hope to be smoke-free ::as of today… C*O*N*G*R*A*T*U*L*A*T*I*O*N*S!!!!! Wishing you continued success with being smoke-free. (((((Elise))))) Jackie ~*~When they discover the center of the universe, a lot of people will be disappointed to discover they are not it~*~           ~~ Bernard Bailey — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <Gently snipped ::I am also taking Clonazepam 1mg twice daily and Inderal, as needed. ::Many different issues going on in my life right now – good things, stressful ::things and issues I have no control over. ::Any insight from anyone on Wellbutrin XL?  Or any thoughts from anyone…  I ::do have a doctor’s appointment scheduled for Tuesday if my daughter is able ::to take me since this is out of my safe driving zone. Dear Elise, I`m sorry you are feeling so out of sorts with yourself. You are one of the most beautiful people I know and it saddens me to think you feel so badly about yourself. <snip Jackie

Let me also say that I feel the same way as Jackie wrote. Tono — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi, Jackie, I did put the smoking on my list for the doctor’s appt.  I’m trying to do a short-term time line so I can have that to reference to during the appt. Thanks, Jackie. smiles, Elise

I take it that you’re aware of the fact that Wellbutrin is also marketed under the name of *Zyban* to help quit smoking? P. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Dear Elise, It`s very important you tell your the NP on Tuesday that you have almost quit smoking. From a few of your posts today I get the feeling you are suffering from depression. Of course only your doctor can tell you that for sure. Smoking may have been a way of self-medicating your depression. I remember a famous NY baseball player in 97 that suffered a bad depression after he quit smoking. Just wanted to make sure you mention this to your doctor. (((((Elise))))) Jackie ~*~When they discover the center of the universe, a lot of people will be disappointed to discover they are not it~*~          ~~ Bernard Bailey — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi, Philip, No I didn’t know that.  Today I did NOT have a cig.  I hope to be smoke-free as of today… smiles, Elise

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, Jackie, I did put the smoking on my list for the doctor’s appt.  I’m trying to do a short-term time line so I can have that to reference to during the appt. Thanks, Jackie. smiles, Elise I take it that you’re aware of the fact that Wellbutrin is also marketed under the name of *Zyban* to help quit smoking? P. Dear Elise, It`s very important you tell your the NP on Tuesday that you have almost quit smoking. From a few of your posts today I get the feeling you are suffering from depression. Of course only your doctor can tell you that for sure. Smoking may have been a way of self-medicating your depression. I remember a famous NY baseball player in 97 that suffered a bad depression after he quit smoking. Just wanted to make sure you mention this to your doctor. (((((Elise))))) Jackie ~*~When they discover the center of the universe, a lot of people will be disappointed to discover they are not it~*~          ~~ Bernard Bailey — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi, Chip, I do feel many of those behaviors are part of what I am going through. Suicidal no, but wishing it would all end at times has been running through my mind lately. I thought about going back on the Zoloft but I just don’t can’t take the weight gain.  I’m going to do a small time line of how things have come down lately so I have something that the phy asst can see and be able to question me from. smiles, Elise

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I`m wondering if you are depressed. With depression comes stinkin thinkin and low sense of self-worth. I think Elise is depressed. It seemed to start when she weaned off the Zoloft. She also felt a little better when she started the Wellbutrin. Which is also consistant with depression.  I weaned off Zoloft several years ago to see how I’d do without it, and got depressed, so I restarted the Zoloft and the depression resolved. Chip below are diagnostic criteria for Major Depressive Episode: Criteria for Major Depressive Episode A. Five (or more) of the following symptoms have been present during the same 2-week period and represent a change from previous functioning; at least one of the symptoms is either    (1) depressed mood or    (2) loss of interest or pleasure. Note: Do not include symptoms that are clearly due to a general medical condition, or mood-incongruent delusions or hallucinations. (1) depressed mood most of the day, nearly every day, as indicated by either subjective report (e.g., feels sad or empty) or observation made by others (e.g., appears tearful). Note: In children and adolescents, can be irritable mood. (2) markedly diminished interest or pleasure in all, or almost all, activities most of the day, nearly every day (as indicated by either subjective account or observation made by others) (3) significant weight loss when not dieting or weight gain (e.g., a change of more than 5% of body weight in a month), or decrease or increase in appetite nearly every day. Note: In children, consider failure to make expected weight gains. (4) Insomnia or Hypersomnia nearly every day (5) psychomotor agitation or retardation nearly every day (observable by others, not merely subjective feelings of restlessness or being slowed down) (6) fatigue or loss of energy nearly every day (7) feelings of worthlessness or excessive or inappropriate guilt (which may be delusional) nearly every day (not merely self-reproach or guilt about being sick) (8) diminished ability to think or concentrate, or indecisiveness, nearly every day (either by subjective account or as observed by others) (9) recurrent thoughts of death (not just fear of dying), recurrent suicidal ideation without a specific plan, or a suicide attempt or a specific plan for committing suicide B. The symptoms do not meet criteria for a Mixed Episode (of manic depression) C. The symptoms cause clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning. D. The symptoms are not due to the direct physiological effects of a substance (e.g., a drug of abuse, a medication) or a general medical condition (e.g., hypothyroidism). E. The symptoms are not better accounted for by Bereavement, i.e., after the loss of a loved one, the symptoms persist for longer than 2 months or are characterized by marked functional impairment, morbid preoccupation with worthlessness, suicidal ideation, psychotic symptoms, or psychomotor retardation. Reprinted without the permission from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, fourth Edition. Copyright 1994 American Psychiatric Association — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi, Sally, My appt isn’t until Tuesday but at least I have that to look forward to. Same here with the leaves.  Then many seem to land right in front of my garage door. We keep the doors down so the leaves aren’t all in the garage. Any bites on the house? smiles, Elise – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am SO GLAD you get to go to the doctor tomorrow.  You really need that appointment.  Isn’t this wind something else??  We have no trees in our yard, but thanks to the wind, I have about as many leaves as the rest of the neighbors.  Not only that, but the wind blew down my For Sale sign, and I had to put it back up, and the bird bath keeps filling up with leaves!!!!  Grab on to something and hold on so you don’t blow away!! ((((((((((((((((((u))))))))))))))))))))) Sally — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi, Jackie, I did put the smoking on my list for the doctor’s appt.  I’m trying to do a short-term time line so I can have that to reference to during the appt. Thanks, Jackie. smiles, Elise – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dear Elise, It`s very important you tell your the NP on Tuesday that you have almost quit smoking. From a few of your posts today I get the feeling you are suffering from depression. Of course only your doctor can tell you that for sure. Smoking may have been a way of self-medicating your depression. I remember a famous NY baseball player in 97 that suffered a bad depression after he quit smoking. Just wanted to make sure you mention this to your doctor. (((((Elise))))) Jackie ~*~When they discover the center of the universe, a lot of people will be

disappointed to discover they are not it~*~           ~~ Bernard Bailey — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, Sally, Thank you for your caring reply.  Yeah, I know I do and have had a lot on my plate.  I agree with your pdoc about the meds not always being the problem but how much is in the equation.  Very wise.  I was thinking of that very same thing a while ago before I took a nap.  I always have to be my problem solver…<g My daughter is able to go with me so at least I now have that "hope" to live on for my appointment. I hope you aren’t getting blown away with the wind. smiles, Elise Hi, all, Well I feel like melting down is exactly what I am doing now.  I feel ugly about my inner self and the world around me.  I have nothing nice to say to anyone directly in my life and actually think of ugly things I could say to them.  Maybe I’ve suppressed my feelings for so long that everything is coming to a head. I did make the med change to Wellbutrin XL, finally, about the beginning of October.  Prior to that I was attempting to wean off the Zoloft and was down to such a minute amount and starting to feel this ugliness inside me and extremely short tempered.  This is when I went onto the Wellbutrin XL 150 mgs and started to feel a bit better.  I increased it again last week by 75 mgs.  The short temperedness has gone away. The only plus side is that I lost some weight about 3 weeks into the process of weaning off the Zoloft and going onto the Wellbutrin XL.  I am aware that I am finally experiencing some feelings which has been an issue for me for years due to them being blunted.  I feel like I’m in a catch 22 right now. Go back on a different AD then possibly weight goes on with that and my feelings get blunted or stay on the Wellbutrin XL and either I continue to feel this ugliness or maybe given time things will change since the short-temperedness did go away. I am also taking Clonazepam 1mg twice daily and Inderal, as needed. Many different issues going on in my life right now – good things, stressful things and issues I have no control over. Any insight from anyone on Wellbutrin XL?  Or any thoughts from anyone…  I do have a doctor’s appointment scheduled for Tuesday if my daughter is able to take me since this is out of my safe driving zone. smiles, Elise ((((((((Elise))))))))))) I was afraid of something like this.  Not because of the meds, but because of the situational stuff going on in your life.  A med change in the middle of all that just complicates matters. I can’t answer the med questions either, but I know there are people here who can.  Personally, I wouldn’t let weight gain even be a factor about whether to take a med or not.  I mean, we’re not talking about 30 pounds or anything.  Just a few, and you can up your excersize and work them off, so don’t let that even be a factor in what you decide on doing about your meds. Oh, I do hope you can make your appointment!  Tell your daughter it’s REAL important that you go.  You really need to talk to your pdoc about the symptoms you are having.  And also, I will say this.  When we found out my mother was dying I talked to my pdoc about whether we should do a med change or something to help me through it.  He was an older man. I liked him so much and he was so wise.  He just kind of looked at me and said "There’s no magic pill for situations like this." — Realize that you are under pressure from all sides of you, and factor that into the equation too.  It’s more than just the meds.  You have so much on your plate that it’s no wonder you’re melting down.  Even someone without anxiety issues would be doing the same thing. (((((((((((Elise))))))))))  you are always there for all of us.  I hope we can be there for you.  I hope some others here can give you advice about the meds, and you know, my inbox is always open to you if you need to vent. Love, Sally

Elise, I am SO GLAD you get to go to the doctor tomorrow.  You really need that appointment.  Isn’t this wind something else??  We have no trees in our yard, but thanks to the wind, I have about as many leaves as the rest of the neighbors.  Not only that, but the wind blew down my For Sale sign, and I had to put it back up, and the bird bath keeps filling up with leaves!!!!  Grab on to something and hold on so you don’t blow away!! ((((((((((((((((((u))))))))))))))))))))) Sally — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

I`m wondering if you are depressed. With depression comes stinkin thinkin and low sense of self-worth.

I think Elise is depressed. It seemed to start when she weaned off the Zoloft. She also felt a little better when she started the Wellbutrin. Which is also consistant with depression.  I weaned off Zoloft several years ago to see how I’d do without it, and got depressed, so I restarted the Zoloft and the depression resolved. Chip below are diagnostic criteria for Major Depressive Episode: Criteria for Major Depressive Episode A. Five (or more) of the following symptoms have been present during the same 2-week period and represent a change from previous functioning; at least one of the symptoms is either    (1) depressed mood or    (2) loss of interest or pleasure. Note: Do not include symptoms that are clearly due to a general medical condition, or mood-incongruent delusions or hallucinations. (1) depressed mood most of the day, nearly every day, as indicated by either subjective report (e.g., feels sad or empty) or observation made by others (e.g., appears tearful). Note: In children and adolescents, can be irritable mood. (2) markedly diminished interest or pleasure in all, or almost all, activities most of the day, nearly every day (as indicated by either subjective account or observation made by others) (3) significant weight loss when not dieting or weight gain (e.g., a change of more than 5% of body weight in a month), or decrease or increase in appetite nearly every day. Note: In children, consider failure to make expected weight gains. (4) Insomnia or Hypersomnia nearly every day (5) psychomotor agitation or retardation nearly every day (observable by others, not merely subjective feelings of restlessness or being slowed down) (6) fatigue or loss of energy nearly every day (7) feelings of worthlessness or excessive or inappropriate guilt (which may be delusional) nearly every day (not merely self-reproach or guilt about being sick) (8) diminished ability to think or concentrate, or indecisiveness, nearly every day (either by subjective account or as observed by others) (9) recurrent thoughts of death (not just fear of dying), recurrent suicidal ideation without a specific plan, or a suicide attempt or a specific plan for committing suicide B. The symptoms do not meet criteria for a Mixed Episode (of manic depression) C. The symptoms cause clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning. D. The symptoms are not due to the direct physiological effects of a substance (e.g., a drug of abuse, a medication) or a general medical condition (e.g., hypothyroidism). E. The symptoms are not better accounted for by Bereavement, i.e., after the loss of a loved one, the symptoms persist for longer than 2 months or are characterized by marked functional impairment, morbid preoccupation with worthlessness, suicidal ideation, psychotic symptoms, or psychomotor retardation. Reprinted without the permission from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, fourth Edition. Copyright 1994 American Psychiatric Association — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

::And yes there are many things going on in my life also now I am down to 1 ::cig a day (and have been for 2 weeks now). Dear Elise, It`s very important you tell your the NP on Tuesday that you have almost quit smoking. From a few of your posts today I get the feeling you are suffering from depression. Of course only your doctor can tell you that for sure. Smoking may have been a way of self-medicating your depression. I remember a famous NY baseball player in 97 that suffered a bad depression after he quit smoking. Just wanted to make sure you mention this to your doctor. (((((Elise))))) Jackie ~*~When they discover the center of the universe, a lot of people will be disappointed to discover they are not it~*~           ~~ Bernard Bailey — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, all, Well I feel like melting down is exactly what I am doing now.  I feel ugly about my inner self and the world around me.  I have nothing nice to say to anyone directly in my life and actually think of ugly things I could say to them.  Maybe I’ve suppressed my feelings for so long that everything is coming to a head. I did make the med change to Wellbutrin XL, finally, about the beginning of October.  Prior to that I was attempting to wean off the Zoloft and was down to such a minute amount and starting to feel this ugliness inside me and extremely short tempered.  This is when I went onto the Wellbutrin XL 150 mgs and started to feel a bit better.  I increased it again last week by 75 mgs.  The short temperedness has gone away. The only plus side is that I lost some weight about 3 weeks into the process of weaning off the Zoloft and going onto the Wellbutrin XL.  I am aware that I am finally experiencing some feelings which has been an issue for me for years due to them being blunted.  I feel like I’m in a catch 22 right now. Go back on a different AD then possibly weight goes on with that and my feelings get blunted or stay on the Wellbutrin XL and either I continue to feel this ugliness or maybe given time things will change since the short-temperedness did go away. I am also taking Clonazepam 1mg twice daily and Inderal, as needed. Many different issues going on in my life right now – good things, stressful things and issues I have no control over. Any insight from anyone on Wellbutrin XL?  Or any thoughts from anyone…  I do have a doctor’s appointment scheduled for Tuesday if my daughter is able to take me since this is out of my safe driving zone. smiles, Elise

Dearest Elise, I wish I knew what to say to make it all better for you.  Not being an expert in anything psychological, I am not sure how suppressed feelings effect one’s well being, and if there is a benefit to getting them out.   Logic says yes, but that sure doesn’t help the way you are feeling. I also wish I could help with the Wellbutrin. I have considered it myself to counterbalance my sedating (ha–not for me!) AD, but am not sure about the stimulating effect it is purported to have.   It does sound like it’s working for you to some degree. Weight loss is a good thing, right?  I’m with you there . I don’t know what else is happening in your life, but I hope that things get better and easier for you very soon.  If you posted about it, I apologize for missing it.  I miss a lot of posts. ((((((((((((Elise))))))))))))) Love, Dawn — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi, Jackie, Thank you for your support.  I will be seeing a phy asst who works under the Psychiatrist I used to see.  He just is so difficult to get an appointment with that I have found it easier on myself to see the PA instead. For some odd reason many articles about depression came my way today.  I’ve read them all and will be asking the PA about them.  One I found very interesting was the Vitamin B Deficiency checklist.  Wow, I could relate to everything the article said and the checklist was me on the dot. I’ll see what the appointment brings and keep myself moving one step at a time until then. smiles, Elise

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <Gently snipped ::I am also taking Clonazepam 1mg twice daily and Inderal, as needed. ::Many different issues going on in my life right now – good things, stressful ::things and issues I have no control over. ::Any insight from anyone on Wellbutrin XL?  Or any thoughts from anyone…  I ::do have a doctor’s appointment scheduled for Tuesday if my daughter is able ::to take me since this is out of my safe driving zone. Dear Elise, I`m sorry you are feeling so out of sorts with yourself. You are one of the most beautiful people I know and it saddens me to think you feel so badly about yourself. What kind of doctor would you be seeing on Tuesday? I hope it is a psychiatrist. He would be the best person to determine what may be going on. It doesn`t appear to be an issue with wellbutrin being this started before you even started it. I`m wondering if you are depressed. With depression comes stinkin thinkin and low sense of self-worth. Another option would be to see a therapist every week for a few months. I think it would do you a lot of good to explore these thoughts and emotions you are having. Keep talking to us, we`ll do our best to help and support you. (((((Elise))))) Jackie ~*~When they discover the center of the universe, a lot of people will be

disappointed to discover they are not it~*~           ~~ Bernard Bailey — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi, Chip, Hi, all, Well I feel like melting down is exactly what I am doing now.  I feel ugly about my inner self and the world around me. Those are thoughts (cognitive), not feelings (emotions). Negative thoughts lead to negative feelings. I have had the same thoughts and consequent feelings when I’m under a lot of stress.

***True but I am finding myself crying a lot today and feeling off kilter. I have nothing nice to say to anyone directly in my life and actually

think of ugly things I could say to them.  Maybe I’ve suppressed my feelings for so long that everything is coming to a head. Could be. Or maybe you’re under a lot of stress right now which  leads to negative thoughts and feelings about oneself and the world.

***I hope it is the stress and I can find a ay to break it all down into smaller pieces and deal with it. I did make the med change to Wellbutrin XL, finally, about the beginning of October.  Prior to that I was attempting to wean off the Zoloft and was down to such a minute amount and starting to feel this ugliness inside me and extremely short tempered. Irritability could be due to Zoloft withdrawal or depression. Or anything that makes one feel uncomfortable. When I’m depressed I get irritable.

***TFortunately, the extreme irritability went away after I started on the Wellbutrin XL now I get these ugly thoughts about people maybe over something they done or said to me and I just want to throw it right back in their face.  This is truly not me.  I’ve always been one to take the higher road even when i was more tempting to take the lower road. This is when I went onto the Wellbutrin XL 150 mgs and started to feel a bit better. Better in what way?

***The irritability and agitation have gone away.  I increased it again last week by 75 mgs.  The short temperedness has gone away. The only plus side is that I lost some weight about 3 weeks into the process of weaning off the Zoloft and going onto the Wellbutrin XL.  I am aware that I am finally experiencing some feelings which has been an issue for me for years due to them being blunted. Do you mean blunted by meds?

***No.  I haven’t been able to cry, show true happiness or joy, even get really mad.  I’ve had the Zoloft there keeping me at such an even par that excitement or fury didn’t appeal or bother me. What feelings and emotions have you blunted?

***Happiness, sadness, joy, excitement, anger, etc… I feel like I’m in a catch 22 right now. Go back on a different AD then possibly weight goes on with that and my feelings get blunted or stay on the Wellbutrin XL and either I continue to feel this ugliness or maybe given time things will change since the short-temperedness did go away. Since you have several factors going on in your life right now, it’s difficult to speculate how changing just one (such as a med change) would effect how you think and feel.

***I have been on many of the different ADs and feel I have a sense of how I feel when on or off of them. And yes there are many things going on in my life also now I am down to 1 cig a day (and have been for 2 weeks now).  I don’t feel I have any desire or cravings for a cig outside of the one I have in the a.m.  I have wondered today about the nicotine though.  What if any role after almost 3 months of weaning off them (some mornings not even thinkuing about having a cig.) if this could be a problem also. What do you think has led to your irritablility?

***Good question?  Weaning off  Zoloft?  Going on the Wellbutrin XL? Quitting smoking?  A combination of everything… I am also taking Clonazepam 1mg twice daily and Inderal, as needed. Many different issues going on in my life right now – good things, stressful things and issues I have no control over. What don’t you have control over?

***Work especially.  It’s been a disappointment and lack of confidence in the executive dirctor for several years for the majority of the office. When it truly gets down to dealing with the situation which we did we have "The Good Old Boys" show up at a staff meeting and  basically tell US to be quiet, lay low, clean your houses, do your job…  So no support there which says she runs the show.  Very disappointing and sad for an agency to be run by such an inept person…ugh! (((Elise))), you have a lot of stresses occuring in your life right now. Both going on Wellbuitrin, and coming off Zoloft can be stressful. Plus your daughter’s shower and wedding are stresses. They need alot of planning. If anyone has enough stress on them, they can feel uncomfortable and irritable, and the whole world can start looking ugly. Below are a list of negative "core beliefs". They may be helpful to you. Maybe they apply to you at this time.

***Chip, from reading the list of "core beliefs", goodness I fit into so many right now.  I will forward these to work and read them off and on the next few days to give me the strength to get through.  I know in time I will make a turn around but it’s so difficult when you feel you are right in the middle of the storm and have to ride it out. Thanks, Chip. smiles, Elise – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Chip Core Beliefs Core beliefs are one’s most central ideas about the self. Aaron Beck theorizes that negative core beliefs fall into two broad categories (see below): those associated with helplessness and those associated with unlovability. Some patients have core beliefs that fall in one category; others have core beliefs in both categories. These core beliefs develop in childhood as the child interacts with significant others and encounters a series of situations. For most of their lives most people may maintain relatively positive core beliefs. Negative core beliefs may surface only during times of psychological distress. Negative core beliefs are usually global, overgeneralized and absolute. When a core belief is activated, the patient is easily able to process information that supports it, but often fails to recognize or distorts information that is contrary to it. The cognitive therapist attempts to identify and modify negative core beliefs. Helpless core beliefs: I am helpless I am powerless I am out of control I am weak I am vulnerable I am needy I am trapped I am inadequate I am ineffective I am incompetent I am a failure I am disrespected Unlovable core beliefs: I am unlovable I am unlikable I am undesirable I am unattractive I am unwanted I am uncared for I am bad I am unworthy I am different I am bound to be rejected I am bound to be abandoned I am bound to be alone — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, all, Well I feel like melting down is exactly what I am doing now.  I feel ugly about my inner self and the world around me.  I have nothing nice to say to anyone directly in my life and actually think of ugly things I could say to them.  Maybe I’ve suppressed my feelings for so long that everything is coming to a head. I did make the med change to Wellbutrin XL, finally, about the beginning of October.  Prior to that I was attempting to wean off the Zoloft and was down to such a minute amount and starting to feel this ugliness inside me and extremely short tempered.  This is when I went onto the Wellbutrin XL 150 mgs and started to feel a bit better.  I increased it again last week by 75 mgs.  The short temperedness has gone away. The only plus side is that I lost some weight about 3 weeks into the process of weaning off the Zoloft and going onto the Wellbutrin XL.  I am aware that I am finally experiencing some feelings which has been an issue for me for years due to them being blunted.  I feel like I’m in a catch 22 right now. Go back on a different AD then possibly weight goes on with that and my feelings get blunted or stay on the Wellbutrin XL and either I continue to feel this ugliness or maybe given time things will change since the short-temperedness did go away. I am also taking Clonazepam 1mg twice daily and Inderal, as needed. Many different issues going on in my life right now – good things, stressful things and issues I have no control over. Any insight from anyone on Wellbutrin XL?  Or any thoughts from anyone…  I do have a doctor’s appointment scheduled for Tuesday if my daughter is able to take me since this is out of my safe driving zone. smiles, Elise

((((((((Elise))))))))))) I was afraid of something like this.  Not because of the meds, but because of the situational stuff going on in your life.  A med change in the middle of all that just complicates matters. I can’t answer the med questions either, but I know there are people here who can.  Personally, I wouldn’t let weight gain even be a factor about whether to take a med or not.  I mean, we’re not talking about 30 pounds or anything.  Just a few, and you can up your excersize and work them off, so don’t let that even be a factor in what you decide on doing about your meds. Oh, I do hope you can make your appointment!  Tell your daughter it’s REAL important that you go.  You really need to talk to your pdoc about the symptoms you are having.  And also, I will say this.  When we found out my mother was dying I talked to my pdoc about whether we should do a med change or something to help me through it.  He was an older man. I liked him so much and he was so wise.  He just kind of looked at me and said "There’s no magic pill for situations like this." — Realize that you are under pressure from all sides of you, and factor that into the equation too.  It’s more than just the meds.  You have so much on your plate that it’s no wonder you’re melting down.  Even someone without anxiety issues would be doing the same thing. (((((((((((Elise))))))))))  you are always there for all of us.  I hope we can be there for you.  I hope some others here can give you advice about the meds, and you know, my inbox is always open to you if you need to vent. Love, Sally — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi, Sally, Thank you for your caring reply.  Yeah, I know I do and have had a lot on my plate.  I agree with your pdoc about the meds not always being the problem but how much is in the equation.  Very wise.  I was thinking of that very same thing a while ago before I took a nap.  I always have to be my problem solver…<g My daughter is able to go with me so at least I now have that "hope" to live on for my appointment. I hope you aren’t getting blown away with the wind. smiles, Elise

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, all, Well I feel like melting down is exactly what I am doing now.  I feel ugly about my inner self and the world around me.  I have nothing nice to say to anyone directly in my life and actually think of ugly things I could say to them.  Maybe I’ve suppressed my feelings for so long that everything is coming to a head. I did make the med change to Wellbutrin XL, finally, about the beginning of October.  Prior to that I was attempting to wean off the Zoloft and was down to such a minute amount and starting to feel this ugliness inside me and extremely short tempered.  This is when I went onto the Wellbutrin XL 150 mgs and started to feel a bit better.  I increased it again last week by 75 mgs.  The short temperedness has gone away. The only plus side is that I lost some weight about 3 weeks into the process of weaning off the Zoloft and going onto the Wellbutrin XL.  I am aware that I am finally experiencing some feelings which has been an issue for me for years due to them being blunted.  I feel like I’m in a catch 22 right now. Go back on a different AD then possibly weight goes on with that and my feelings get blunted or stay on the Wellbutrin XL and either I continue to feel this ugliness or maybe given time things will change since the short-temperedness did go away. I am also taking Clonazepam 1mg twice daily and Inderal, as needed. Many different issues going on in my life right now – good things, stressful things and issues I have no control over. Any insight from anyone on Wellbutrin XL?  Or any thoughts from anyone…  I do have a doctor’s appointment scheduled for Tuesday if my daughter is able to take me since this is out of my safe driving zone. smiles, Elise ((((((((Elise))))))))))) I was afraid of something like this.  Not because of the meds, but because of the situational stuff going on in your life.  A med change in the middle of all that just complicates matters. I can’t answer the med questions either, but I know there are people here who can.  Personally, I wouldn’t let weight gain even be a factor about whether to take a med or not.  I mean, we’re not talking about 30 pounds or anything.  Just a few, and you can up your excersize and work them off, so don’t let that even be a factor in what you decide on doing about your meds. Oh, I do hope you can make your appointment!  Tell your daughter it’s REAL important that you go.  You really need to talk to your pdoc about the symptoms you are having.  And also, I will say this.  When we found out my mother was dying I talked to my pdoc about whether we should do a med change or something to help me through it.  He was an older man. I liked him so much and he was so wise.  He just kind of looked at me and said "There’s no magic pill for situations like this." — Realize that you are under pressure from all sides of you, and factor that into the equation too.  It’s more than just the meds.  You have so much on your plate that it’s no wonder you’re melting down.  Even someone without anxiety issues would be doing the same thing. (((((((((((Elise))))))))))  you are always there for all of us.  I hope we can be there for you.  I hope some others here can give you advice about the meds, and you know, my inbox is always open to you if you need to vent. Love, Sally — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

<Gently snipped ::I am also taking Clonazepam 1mg twice daily and Inderal, as needed. ::Many different issues going on in my life right now – good things, stressful ::things and issues I have no control over. ::Any insight from anyone on Wellbutrin XL?  Or any thoughts from anyone…  I ::do have a doctor’s appointment scheduled for Tuesday if my daughter is able ::to take me since this is out of my safe driving zone. Dear Elise, I`m sorry you are feeling so out of sorts with yourself. You are one of the most beautiful people I know and it saddens me to think you feel so badly about yourself. What kind of doctor would you be seeing on Tuesday? I hope it is a psychiatrist. He would be the best person to determine what may be going on. It doesn`t appear to be an issue with wellbutrin being this started before you even started it. I`m wondering if you are depressed. With depression comes stinkin thinkin and low sense of self-worth. Another option would be to see a therapist every week for a few months. I think it would do you a lot of good to explore these thoughts and emotions you are having. Keep talking to us, we`ll do our best to help and support you. (((((Elise))))) Jackie ~*~When they discover the center of the universe, a lot of people will be disappointed to discover they are not it~*~           ~~ Bernard Bailey — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi, Tono, Thank you for your kind words.  I have also been on Clonazepam for a few years now so don’t think that’s my problem.  It’s odd how much depression material I came cross today and not even looking for it.  I will talk with the phy. asst. on Tuesday and discuss some things with her. smiles, Elise

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, all, Well I feel like melting down is exactly what I am doing now.  I feel ugly about my inner self and the world around me.  I have nothing nice to say to anyone directly in my life and actually think of ugly things I could say to them.  Maybe I’ve suppressed my feelings for so long that everything is coming to a head. I did make the med change to Wellbutrin XL, finally, about the beginning of October.  Prior to that I was attempting to wean off the Zoloft and was down to such a minute amount and starting to feel this ugliness inside me and extremely short tempered.  This is when I went onto the Wellbutrin XL 150 mgs and started to feel a bit better.  I increased it again last week by 75 mgs.  The short temperedness has gone away. The only plus side is that I lost some weight about 3 weeks into the process of weaning off the Zoloft and going onto the Wellbutrin XL.  I am aware that I am finally experiencing some feelings which has been an issue for me for years due to them being blunted.  I feel like I’m in a catch 22 right now. Go back on a different AD then possibly weight goes on with that and my feelings get blunted or stay on the Wellbutrin XL and either I continue to feel this ugliness or maybe given time things will change since the short-temperedness did go away. I am also taking Clonazepam 1mg twice daily and Inderal, as needed. Many different issues going on in my life right now – good things, stressful things and issues I have no control over. Any insight from anyone on Wellbutrin XL?  Or any thoughts from anyone…  I do have a doctor’s appointment scheduled for Tuesday if my daughter is able to take me since this is out of my safe driving zone. smiles, Elise Hi Elise, I wish so much that I could help in some way, but I don’t know anything about Zoloft or Wellbutrin.  Clonazepam is a different story, I’ve been on it for ? 4 or 5 years?  I completely lost track of when I started it.   Anyway, if you are just starting it, that can blunt your emotions a bit, but that goes away fairly fast.  I’m on 6mg’s/day. I just want to say that you have always been a great regular here and over the years you have helped me personally and on the group, and I’m very thankful you are a part of this great group of people. (((((Elise))))) Tono — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, all, Well I feel like melting down is exactly what I am doing now.  I feel ugly about my inner self and the world around me.  I have nothing nice to say to anyone directly in my life and actually think of ugly things I could say to them.  Maybe I’ve suppressed my feelings for so long that everything is coming to a head. I did make the med change to Wellbutrin XL, finally, about the beginning of October.  Prior to that I was attempting to wean off the Zoloft and was down to such a minute amount and starting to feel this ugliness inside me and extremely short tempered.  This is when I went onto the Wellbutrin XL 150 mgs and started to feel a bit better.  I increased it again last week by 75 mgs.  The short temperedness has gone away. The only plus side is that I lost some weight about 3 weeks into the process of weaning off the Zoloft and going onto the Wellbutrin XL.  I am aware that I am finally experiencing some feelings which has been an issue for me for years due to them being blunted.  I feel like I’m in a catch 22 right now. Go back on a different AD then possibly weight goes on with that and my feelings get blunted or stay on the Wellbutrin XL and either I continue to feel this ugliness or maybe given time things will change since the short-temperedness did go away. I am also taking Clonazepam 1mg twice daily and Inderal, as needed. Many different issues going on in my life right now – good things, stressful things and issues I have no control over. Any insight from anyone on Wellbutrin XL?  Or any thoughts from anyone…  I do have a doctor’s appointment scheduled for Tuesday if my daughter is able to take me since this is out of my safe driving zone. smiles, Elise

Hi Elise, I wish so much that I could help in some way, but I don’t know anything about Zoloft or Wellbutrin.  Clonazepam is a different story, I’ve been on it for ? 4 or 5 years?  I completely lost track of when I started it.   Anyway, if you are just starting it, that can blunt your emotions a bit, but that goes away fairly fast.  I’m on 6mg’s/day. I just want to say that you have always been a great regular here and over the years you have helped me personally and on the group, and I’m very thankful you are a part of this great group of people. (((((Elise))))) Tono — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi, all, Well I feel like melting down is exactly what I am doing now.  I feel ugly about my inner self and the world around me.

Those are thoughts (cognitive), not feelings (emotions). Negative thoughts lead to negative feelings. I have had the same thoughts and consequent feelings when I’m under a lot of stress. I have nothing nice to say to anyone directly in my life and actually think of ugly things I could say to them.  Maybe I’ve suppressed my feelings for so long that everything is coming to a head.

Could be. Or maybe you’re under a lot of stress right now which  leads to negative thoughts and feelings about oneself and the world. I did make the med change to Wellbutrin XL, finally, about the beginning of October.  Prior to that I was attempting to wean off the Zoloft and was down to such a minute amount and starting to feel this ugliness inside me and extremely short tempered.

Irritability could be due to Zoloft withdrawal or depression. Or anything that makes one feel uncomfortable. When I’m depressed I get irritable. This is when I went onto the Wellbutrin XL 150 mgs and started to feel a bit better.

Better in what way?  I increased it again last week by 75 mgs.  The short temperedness has gone away. The only plus side is that I lost some weight about 3 weeks into the process of weaning off the Zoloft and going onto the Wellbutrin XL.  I am aware

that I am finally experiencing some feelings which has been an issue for me for years due to them being blunted.

Do you mean blunted by meds? What feelings and emotions have you blunted? I feel like I’m in a catch 22 right now. Go back on a different AD then possibly weight goes on with that and my feelings get blunted or stay on the Wellbutrin XL and either I continue to feel this ugliness or maybe given time things will change since the short-temperedness did go away.

Since you have several factors going on in your life right now, it’s difficult to speculate how changing just one (such as a med change) would effect how you think and feel. What do you think has led to your irritablility? I am also taking Clonazepam 1mg twice daily and Inderal, as needed. Many different issues going on in my life right now – good things, stressful things and issues I have no control over.

What don’t you have control over? (((Elise))), you have a lot of stresses occuring in your life right now. Both going on Wellbuitrin, and coming off Zoloft can be stressful. Plus your daughter’s shower and wedding are stresses. They need alot of planning. If anyone has enough stress on them, they can feel uncomfortable and irritable, and the whole world can start looking ugly. Below are a list of negative "core beliefs". They may be helpful to you. Maybe they apply to you at this time. Chip Core Beliefs Core beliefs are one’s most central ideas about the self. Aaron Beck theorizes that negative core beliefs fall into two broad categories (see below): those associated with helplessness and those associated with unlovability. Some patients have core beliefs that fall in one category; others have core beliefs in both categories. These core beliefs develop in childhood as the child interacts with significant others and encounters a series of situations. For most of their lives most people may maintain relatively positive core beliefs. Negative core beliefs may surface only during times of psychological distress. Negative core beliefs are usually global, overgeneralized and absolute. When a core belief is activated, the patient is easily able to process information that supports it, but often fails to recognize or distorts information that is contrary to it. The cognitive therapist attempts to identify and modify negative core beliefs. Helpless core beliefs: I am helpless I am powerless I am out of control I am weak I am vulnerable I am needy I am trapped I am inadequate I am ineffective I am incompetent I am a failure I am disrespected Unlovable core beliefs: I am unlovable I am unlikable I am undesirable I am unattractive I am unwanted I am uncared for I am bad I am unworthy I am different I am bound to be rejected I am bound to be abandoned I am bound to be alone — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi, all, Well I feel like melting down is exactly what I am doing now.  I feel ugly about my inner self and the world around me.  I have nothing nice to say to anyone directly in my life and actually think of ugly things I could say to them.  Maybe I’ve suppressed my feelings for so long that everything is coming to a head. I did make the med change to Wellbutrin XL, finally, about the beginning of October.  Prior to that I was attempting to wean off the Zoloft and was down to such a minute amount and starting to feel this ugliness inside me and extremely short tempered.  This is when I went onto the Wellbutrin XL 150 mgs and started to feel a bit better.  I increased it again last week by 75 mgs.  The short temperedness has gone away. The only plus side is that I lost some weight about 3 weeks into the process of weaning off the Zoloft and going onto the Wellbutrin XL.  I am aware that I am finally experiencing some feelings which has been an issue for me for years due to them being blunted.  I feel like I’m in a catch 22 right now. Go back on a different AD then possibly weight goes on with that and my feelings get blunted or stay on the Wellbutrin XL and either I continue to feel this ugliness or maybe given time things will change since the short-temperedness did go away. I am also taking Clonazepam 1mg twice daily and Inderal, as needed. Many different issues going on in my life right now – good things, stressful things and issues I have no control over. Any insight from anyone on Wellbutrin XL?  Or any thoughts from anyone…  I do have a doctor’s appointment scheduled for Tuesday if my daughter is able to take me since this is out of my safe driving zone. smiles, Elise — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Question:

YOU SAID YOU WAS LEAVIN’ !!!!  doncha hate when people come to yer house, advertise they’re leavin, get in tha dang car… then come back’n stay awhile? JUST when ya get nekkid and start eatin a nuked artichoke, feelin’ like you can breathe agin? ok.. i’m gunna call ya Uncle Buck from this day forward .Yoga helps a lot, and specially CBT. CBT ain’t cognitive behavioral therapy where i come from, Uncle Buck.. and i gotchur CBT !!!! Sagan, and hypochondriac. (no, english is not my mother tongue

(cept when it’s convenient)  and by tha way.. WHO ASKED YA?

Response:

I have been on Atenolol 25mg which is a beta blocker and about the lowest dose around, in fact my doctor told me that it has only been around 2 or 3 years.  I’ve been taking it for about a year now and I have to say I feel a lot more rested and together than when I was on no medication at all. Panic Attacks are rare now, although I still get bouts of anxiety but I guess that everyone.  One thing though, coming off it is annoying because of the shakes but because of my low doasge my doctor said it wouldn’t neccesarily be that much of a problem. Daniko.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Tom I take Xanax and a beta blocker, but I have a pacemaker so the beta blocker is to lower the heart rate when the pacer isn’t doin it’s job…sometimes it fires off to a rate of nearly 200bpm. If you get on a beta blocker, take it at night because it tends to make you tired and feel crappy (due to the lowering of the heart rate). — If you sing a country song backwards, you get your job and your wife back. Hi, Although I don’t have frequent panic attacks, my heart races in doctor office, and blood pessure soars.  I’ve been on 20 mg/day of an ACE inhibitor, and BP varies from 110/70 in summer to 135/85 in winter as measured by home monitor (cause unknown).  This is an established cycle over past three years. I almost considered asking to reduce the med, since I got some dizziness when standing when BPs were 105/65 every summer. Most problematic, not only do I have this anxiety in MDs office, but my HR will go up, at times, when I strap on my home BP monitor. FWIW, I believe I don’t have the most common form of hypertension, but, rather, anxiety about HAVING high blood pressure, as well as some anxiety when it comes to health issues. I’m thinking it’s time for a beta blocker, and my doc would likely agree. But I’m athletic, and resting heart rate most of the time is 50 BPM.  I’d hate to suffer side effects (ED, loss of ability to do strenuous exercise) to control the fight-or-flight response. Incidentally, my resting heart rate has recently climbed (15 BPM), as it does when I exercise too much and don’t eat enough.  One month of no exercise and more food usually get’s me back to 100%. As for the anxiety, I’m looking for comments regarding Xanax, Valium, and/or beta blockers, as well as yoga, biofeedback etc.  I’m type A personality, but never get this adrenaline rush unless it’s time to measure BP, or going on a first date Thanks, flighty-mikey

Response:

Although I don’t have frequent panic attacks, my heart races in doctor office, and blood pessure soars. Most problematic, not only do I have this anxiety in MDs office, but my HR will go up, at times, when I strap on my home BP monitor. FWIW, I believe I don’t have the most common form of hypertension, but, rather, anxiety about HAVING high blood pressure, as well as some anxiety when it comes to health issues.

Hi Tom. This sounds very familiar to me. I have exactly the same problem/fear though I had more frequent attacks (one every three days) until I started to take xanax and zoloft. I feel quite well now. I’ve found that my dosage is fine, or perhaps in the borderline, at 3.5mg of Xanax XR (1.5-0.5-1.5) and 75mg of Zoloft. Sometimes I take 0.5mg of Ativan if I feel a bit anxious or Xanax IR for special occasions My resting HR is among 60 and 65 bpm, and during a Holter test, it decreased to 40 being asleep, which you know is normal, and increased to 140!!! in the afternoon because of my fear while thinking about the possible results of the test. I also had white coat HBP (140-155 sistolic and 90-95 diastolic), while my normal BP (during a 24h. monitoring was 137-87) and I was VERY anxious that whole day, I didn’t sleep at all :/ (I was not taking benzos). The lowest BP I’ve seen in body was 130/80, one night, after the doc at the ER told me I was not dying (the first time I had a panic attack), I felt so well and happy that didn’t notice they were measuring my BP Yoga helps a lot, and specially CBT. Change your point of view, stop thinking about your health/yourself. This was MHO. Good luck. Sagan, and hypochondriac. (no, english is not my mother tongue

Response:

Gary and others, Thank you for the replies.  You have eased my anxiety, and all have diagnosed me quite accurately….you’re hired.  Imagine being anxious because BP is not 120/80, or because sleep is not perfect, or because resting heart rate increases from 50 to 65 BPM.  That’s me. I suspect all of my recent ailments are related to doing too much (running, volleyball, weights), without paying enough attention to food and water intake, and paying too much attention to heart rate and blood pressure.  Interestingly, overtraining symptoms (OK, from what I’ve read in the medical literature) include anxiety, moodiness, and insomnia.  My sleep in near normal now that I’ve backed off the excessive/obsessive exercise! I have an excellent benefit plan and will see someone in the employee assistance program.  If medication is the answer, I will consider it. Thanks again for the replies.  I will stay tuned here to keep tabs on all the latest and greatest. Tom – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Tom, it just occured to me that I left out one thing I wanted to tell you. The current zeitgeist in medicine is to treat anxiety with SSRI antidepressants, such as Paxil, Effexor etc, or tricyclic antidepressants, such as desipramine or nortryptiline..  In that you referenced some episodes of what are likely postural hypotension (dizziness when standing), a tricyclic antidepressant (TCA) would not be a particularly good choice for you – these drugs have a ‘moderate’ affinity for alpha 1 adrenergic receptor blockade, which is the primary reason why postural hypotension is such a common side effect with these agents.  Celexa (an SSRI) is my personal favorite because it is the most selective agent for the serotonin receptor – ten times moreso than Paxil, despite the fact that Paxil is clearly the most potent inhibitor of serotonin reuptake.  Potency is mainly a good predictor of adverse events and drug interactions, whereas selectivity will be a better predictor of clinical results.  In the slang of the psychiatry industry, Celexa (or lexapro if you like) is more "clean". Having taken many of these drugs myself, I’ve also found that Celexa is the most anxiolytic of them that I’ve tried.  Another thing I wanted to mention but forgot – I’ve been taking Xanax for 13 years now, and the dose is still the same, and it works just fine every single day. –Gary

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Although I don’t have frequent panic attacks, my heart races in doctor office, and blood pessure soars. Most problematic, not only do I have this anxiety in MDs office, but my HR will go up, at times, when I strap on my home BP monitor. FWIW, I believe I don’t have the most common form of hypertension, but, rather, anxiety about HAVING high blood pressure, as well as some anxiety when it comes to health issues. Hi Tom. This sounds very familiar to me. I have exactly the same problem/fear though I had more frequent attacks (one every three days) until I started to take xanax and zoloft. I feel quite well now. I’ve found that my dosage is fine, or perhaps in the borderline, at 3.5mg of Xanax XR (1.5-0.5-1.5) and 75mg of Zoloft. Sometimes I take 0.5mg of Ativan if I feel a bit anxious or Xanax IR for special occasions My resting HR is among 60 and 65 bpm, and during a Holter test, it decreased to 40 being asleep, which you know is normal, and increased to 140!!! in the afternoon because of my fear while thinking about the possible results of the test. I also had white coat HBP (140-155 sistolic and 90-95 diastolic), while my normal BP (during a 24h. monitoring was 137-87) and I was VERY anxious that whole day, I didn’t sleep at all :/ (I was not taking benzos). The lowest BP I’ve seen in body was 130/80, one night, after the doc at the ER told me I was not dying (the first time I had a panic attack), I felt so well and happy that didn’t notice they were measuring my BP Yoga helps a lot, and specially CBT. Change your point of view, stop thinking about your health/yourself.

Now that is good advice Sagan, and is also very familiar. Now where have I heard that before?! ;o)

Response:

Tom, it just occured to me that I left out one thing I wanted to tell you. The current zeitgeist in medicine is to treat anxiety with SSRI antidepressants, such as Paxil, Effexor etc, or tricyclic antidepressants, such as desipramine or nortryptiline..  In that you referenced some episodes of what are likely postural hypotension (dizziness when standing), a tricyclic antidepressant (TCA) would not be a particularly good choice for you – these drugs have a ‘moderate’ affinity for alpha 1 adrenergic receptor blockade, which is the primary reason why postural hypotension is such a common side effect with these agents.  Celexa (an SSRI) is my personal favorite because it is the most selective agent for the serotonin receptor – ten times moreso than Paxil, despite the fact that Paxil is clearly the most potent inhibitor of serotonin reuptake.  Potency is mainly a good predictor of adverse events and drug interactions, whereas selectivity will be a better predictor of clinical results.  In the slang of the psychiatry industry, Celexa (or lexapro if you like) is more "clean". Having taken many of these drugs myself, I’ve also found that Celexa is the most anxiolytic of them that I’ve tried.  Another thing I wanted to mention but forgot – I’ve been taking Xanax for 13 years now, and the dose is still the same, and it works just fine every single day. –Gary

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Many physicians are even ill-informed on the full depth and breadth of the subject of benzodiazepines.  When *taken for an indicated condition in the amount prescribed* benzodiazepines RARELY show evidence of tolerance or tachyphylaxis (needing to take more of the drug to get the same result). Over about 30 days, and often less, they DO lose their ability to sedate generally, so are not an especially good choice for sleep medicines in the long term – for most people.  I work with hundreds of MD’s and can absolutely assure you that a blood pressure of 135/85 is something that they would be UTTERLY unconcerned with.  The American Cardiology Association says that ideally one should have the diastolic (bottom number) pressure at 85 or less, so I’d keep an eye on the sodium intake. IF your pressure were to rise further, particularly the diastolic part, the first thing they’d likely want to do would be to add a mild diuretic to your ace-inhibitor, usually hydrochlorothiazide (HCTZ) As an athlete with a low resting heart rate and a BP like that, you would likely be unremarkable to any cardiologist, and I’ve worked in some pretty fancy shmanzy places where virtually everything was reacted to and treated aggressively.  The point:  don’t worry so much.  If ya can’t stop worrying, get some Xanax or some anxiolytic drug from your doctor – he should be far more interested in that problem than in your enviable pulse and blood pressure.  Kudos to you for exercising, it does keep anxiety from getting totally out of hand for a lot of people. I’ll even go so far as to say that if your physician actually agreed to give you a beta blocker with numbers like that (in that the drug isn’t indicated at all), I’d fire his ass.  It is clinically dangerous to administer any amount of beta blockade to someone with a resting heart rate of 50. Kindest Regards, Gary You will probably get plenty of "yes" votes for taking Xanax. I’ve heard that the effect lessens if taken regularly. In my opinion, a person with a resting heart rate that hovers in the 50’s ought not to be messing with beta blockers. You may be right, but I don’t think many knowledgible MDs would be unconcerned with a BP of 135/85. Also, as it appears you are mildly over-concerned about the "numbers" that indicate "good health", be aware that beta blockers can easily cause a rise in serum cholesterol levels. That’s what I’ve heard.  I’ll pass thanks. Exercising too much and not eating enough do not sound like difficult I have no one to blame but myself.  Funny how all of my sedentary friends and relatives all feel dandy 24/7.  My New Years resolution on Nov 1: exercise less eat more work less vacation more…. Thanks for the input. Mike Hi, Although I don’t have frequent panic attacks, my heart races in doctor office, and blood pessure soars.  I’ve been on 20 mg/day of an ACE inhibitor, and BP varies from 110/70 in summer to 135/85 in winter as measured by home monitor (cause unknown).  This is an established cycle over past three years. I almost considered asking to reduce the med, since I got some dizziness when standing when BPs were 105/65 every summer. Most problematic, not only do I have this anxiety in MDs office, but my HR will go up, at times, when I strap on my home BP monitor. FWIW, I believe I don’t have the most common form of hypertension, but, rather, anxiety about HAVING high blood pressure, as well as some anxiety when it comes to health issues. I’m thinking it’s time for a beta blocker, and my doc would likely agree. But I’m athletic, and resting heart rate most of the time is 50 BPM.  I’d hate to suffer side effects (ED, loss of ability to do strenuous exercise) to control the fight-or-flight response. Incidentally, my resting heart rate has recently climbed (15 BPM), as it does when I exercise too much and don’t eat enough.  One month of no exercise and more food usually get’s me back to 100%. As for the anxiety, I’m looking for comments regarding Xanax, Valium, and/or beta blockers, as well as yoga, biofeedback etc.  I’m type A personality, but never get this adrenaline rush unless it’s time to measure BP, or going on a first date Thanks, flighty-mikey

Response:

You will probably get plenty of "yes" votes for taking Xanax.   I’ve heard that the effect lessens if taken regularly.

You listened to the wrong people. As a rule no *tolerance* occurs with anxiety sufferers, it’s really exceedingly rare. In my opinion, a person with a resting heart rate that hovers in the 50’s ought not to be messing with beta blockers.  

I certainly agree. You may be right, but I don’t think many knowledgible MDs would be unconcerned with a BP of 135/85.

Actually this is well within the normal range, no reason to worry. Philip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, Although I don’t have frequent panic attacks, my heart races in doctor office, and blood pessure soars.  I’ve been on 20 mg/day of an ACE inhibitor, and BP varies from 110/70 in summer to 135/85 in winter as measured by home monitor (cause unknown).  This is an established cycle over past three years. I almost considered asking to reduce the med, since I got some dizziness when standing when BPs were 105/65 every summer. Most problematic, not only do I have this anxiety in MDs office, but my HR will go up, at times, when I strap on my home BP monitor. FWIW, I believe I don’t have the most common form of hypertension, but, rather, anxiety about HAVING high blood pressure, as well as some anxiety when it comes to health issues. I’m thinking it’s time for a beta blocker, and my doc would likely agree. But I’m athletic, and resting heart rate most of the time is 50 BPM.  I’d hate to suffer side effects (ED, loss of ability to do strenuous exercise) to control the fight-or-flight response. Incidentally, my resting heart rate has recently climbed (15 BPM), as it does when I exercise too much and don’t eat enough.  One month of no exercise and more food usually get’s me back to 100%. As for the anxiety, I’m looking for comments regarding Xanax, Valium, and/or beta blockers, as well as yoga, biofeedback etc.  I’m type A personality, but never get this adrenaline rush unless it’s time to measure BP, or going on a first date Thanks, flighty-mikey

Response:

Many physicians are even ill-informed on the full depth and breadth of the subject of benzodiazepines.  When *taken for an indicated condition in the amount prescribed* benzodiazepines RARELY show evidence of tolerance or tachyphylaxis (needing to take more of the drug to get the same result). Over about 30 days, and often less, they DO lose their ability to sedate generally, so are not an especially good choice for sleep medicines in the long term – for most people.  I work with hundreds of MD’s and can absolutely assure you that a blood pressure of 135/85 is something that they would be UTTERLY unconcerned with.  The American Cardiology Association says that ideally one should have the diastolic (bottom number) pressure at 85 or less, so I’d keep an eye on the sodium intake.  IF your pressure were to rise further, particularly the diastolic part, the first thing they’d likely want to do would be to add a mild diuretic to your ace-inhibitor, usually hydrochlorothiazide (HCTZ) As an athlete with a low resting heart rate and a BP like that, you would likely be unremarkable to any cardiologist, and I’ve worked in some pretty fancy shmanzy places where virtually everything was reacted to and treated aggressively.  The point:  don’t worry so much.  If ya can’t stop worrying, get some Xanax or some anxiolytic drug from your doctor – he should be far more interested in that problem than in your enviable pulse and blood pressure.  Kudos to you for exercising, it does keep anxiety from getting totally out of hand for a lot of people. I’ll even go so far as to say that if your physician actually agreed to give you a beta blocker with numbers like that (in that the drug isn’t indicated at all), I’d fire his ass.  It is clinically dangerous to administer any amount of beta blockade to someone with a resting heart rate of 50. Kindest Regards, Gary

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You will probably get plenty of "yes" votes for taking Xanax. I’ve heard that the effect lessens if taken regularly. In my opinion, a person with a resting heart rate that hovers in the 50’s ought not to be messing with beta blockers. You may be right, but I don’t think many knowledgible MDs would be unconcerned with a BP of 135/85. Also, as it appears you are mildly over-concerned about the "numbers" that indicate "good health", be aware that beta blockers can easily cause a rise in serum cholesterol levels. That’s what I’ve heard.  I’ll pass thanks. Exercising too much and not eating enough do not sound like difficult I have no one to blame but myself.  Funny how all of my sedentary friends and relatives all feel dandy 24/7.  My New Years resolution on Nov 1: exercise less eat more work less vacation more…. Thanks for the input. Mike Hi, Although I don’t have frequent panic attacks, my heart races in doctor office, and blood pessure soars.  I’ve been on 20 mg/day of an ACE inhibitor, and BP varies from 110/70 in summer to 135/85 in winter as measured by home monitor (cause unknown).  This is an established cycle over past three years. I almost considered asking to reduce the med, since I got some dizziness when standing when BPs were 105/65 every summer. Most problematic, not only do I have this anxiety in MDs office, but my HR will go up, at times, when I strap on my home BP monitor. FWIW, I believe I don’t have the most common form of hypertension, but, rather, anxiety about HAVING high blood pressure, as well as some anxiety when it comes to health issues. I’m thinking it’s time for a beta blocker, and my doc would likely agree. But I’m athletic, and resting heart rate most of the time is 50 BPM.  I’d hate to suffer side effects (ED, loss of ability to do strenuous exercise) to control the fight-or-flight response. Incidentally, my resting heart rate has recently climbed (15 BPM), as it does when I exercise too much and don’t eat enough.  One month of no exercise and more food usually get’s me back to 100%. As for the anxiety, I’m looking for comments regarding Xanax, Valium, and/or beta blockers, as well as yoga, biofeedback etc.  I’m type A personality, but never get this adrenaline rush unless it’s time to measure BP, or going on a first date Thanks, flighty-mikey

Response:

You will probably get plenty of "yes" votes for taking Xanax.  

I’ve heard that the effect lessens if taken regularly. In my opinion, a person with a resting heart rate that hovers in the 50’s ought not to be messing with beta blockers.  

You may be right, but I don’t think many knowledgible MDs would be unconcerned with a BP of 135/85. Also, as it appears you are mildly over-concerned about the "numbers" that indicate "good health", be aware that beta blockers can easily cause a rise in serum cholesterol levels.

That’s what I’ve heard.  I’ll pass thanks. Exercising too much and not eating enough do not sound like difficult

I have no one to blame but myself.  Funny how all of my sedentary friends and relatives all feel dandy 24/7.  My New Years resolution on Nov 1: exercise less eat more work less vacation more…. Thanks for the input. Mike – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, Although I don’t have frequent panic attacks, my heart races in doctor office, and blood pessure soars.  I’ve been on 20 mg/day of an ACE inhibitor, and BP varies from 110/70 in summer to 135/85 in winter as measured by home monitor (cause unknown).  This is an established cycle over past three years. I almost considered asking to reduce the med, since I got some dizziness when standing when BPs were 105/65 every summer. Most problematic, not only do I have this anxiety in MDs office, but my HR will go up, at times, when I strap on my home BP monitor. FWIW, I believe I don’t have the most common form of hypertension, but, rather, anxiety about HAVING high blood pressure, as well as some anxiety when it comes to health issues. I’m thinking it’s time for a beta blocker, and my doc would likely agree. But I’m athletic, and resting heart rate most of the time is 50 BPM.  I’d hate to suffer side effects (ED, loss of ability to do strenuous exercise) to control the fight-or-flight response. Incidentally, my resting heart rate has recently climbed (15 BPM), as it does when I exercise too much and don’t eat enough.  One month of no exercise and more food usually get’s me back to 100%. As for the anxiety, I’m looking for comments regarding Xanax, Valium, and/or beta blockers, as well as yoga, biofeedback etc.  I’m type A personality, but never get this adrenaline rush unless it’s time to measure BP, or going on a first date Thanks, flighty-mikey

Response:

You will probably get plenty of "yes" votes for taking Xanax.

i dunno what the topic is, but xanax ALWAYS gets MY vote.. AYE! Exercising too much and not eating enough do not sound like difficult

not difficult at all.. come live at my house. BADDA BING ! ::tossin backah twinkie:: ~tanya

Response:

Tom I take Xanax and a beta blocker, but I have a pacemaker so the beta blocker is to lower the heart rate when the pacer isn’t doin it’s job…sometimes it fires off to a rate of nearly 200bpm. If you get on a beta blocker, take it at night because it tends to make you tired and feel crappy (due to the lowering of the heart rate). — If you sing a country song backwards, you get your job and your wife back.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, Although I don’t have frequent panic attacks, my heart races in doctor office, and blood pessure soars.  I’ve been on 20 mg/day of an ACE inhibitor, and BP varies from 110/70 in summer to 135/85 in winter as measured by home monitor (cause unknown).  This is an established cycle over past three years. I almost considered asking to reduce the med, since I got some dizziness when standing when BPs were 105/65 every summer. Most problematic, not only do I have this anxiety in MDs office, but my HR will go up, at times, when I strap on my home BP monitor. FWIW, I believe I don’t have the most common form of hypertension, but, rather, anxiety about HAVING high blood pressure, as well as some anxiety when it comes to health issues. I’m thinking it’s time for a beta blocker, and my doc would likely agree. But I’m athletic, and resting heart rate most of the time is 50 BPM.  I’d hate to suffer side effects (ED, loss of ability to do strenuous exercise) to control the fight-or-flight response. Incidentally, my resting heart rate has recently climbed (15 BPM), as it does when I exercise too much and don’t eat enough.  One month of no exercise and more food usually get’s me back to 100%. As for the anxiety, I’m looking for comments regarding Xanax, Valium, and/or beta blockers, as well as yoga, biofeedback etc.  I’m type A personality, but never get this adrenaline rush unless it’s time to measure BP, or going on a first date Thanks, flighty-mikey

Response:

Hi, Although I don’t have frequent panic attacks, my heart races in doctor office, and blood pessure soars.  I’ve been on 20 mg/day of an ACE inhibitor, and BP varies from 110/70 in summer to 135/85 in winter as measured by home monitor (cause unknown).  This is an established cycle over past three years. I almost considered asking to reduce the med, since I got some dizziness when standing when BPs were 105/65 every summer. Most problematic, not only do I have this anxiety in MDs office, but my HR will go up, at times, when I strap on my home BP monitor. FWIW, I believe I don’t have the most common form of hypertension, but, rather, anxiety about HAVING high blood pressure, as well as some anxiety when it comes to health issues. I’m thinking it’s time for a beta blocker, and my doc would likely agree. But I’m athletic, and resting heart rate most of the time is 50 BPM.  I’d hate to suffer side effects (ED, loss of ability to do strenuous exercise) to control the fight-or-flight response. Incidentally, my resting heart rate has recently climbed (15 BPM), as it does when I exercise too much and don’t eat enough.  One month of no exercise and more food usually get’s me back to 100%. As for the anxiety, I’m looking for comments regarding Xanax, Valium, and/or beta blockers, as well as yoga, biofeedback etc.  I’m type A personality, but never get this adrenaline rush unless it’s time to measure BP, or going on a first date Thanks, flighty-mikey

Response:

You will probably get plenty of "yes" votes for taking Xanax..  In my opinion, a person with a resting heart rate that hovers in the 50’s ought not to be messing with beta blockers.  Also, as it appears you are mildly over-concerned about the "numbers" that indicate "good health", be aware that beta blockers can easily cause a rise in serum cholesterol levels. Exercising too much and not eating enough do not sound like difficult

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, Although I don’t have frequent panic attacks, my heart races in doctor office, and blood pessure soars.  I’ve been on 20 mg/day of an ACE inhibitor, and BP varies from 110/70 in summer to 135/85 in winter as measured by home monitor (cause unknown).  This is an established cycle over past three years. I almost considered asking to reduce the med, since I got some dizziness when standing when BPs were 105/65 every summer. Most problematic, not only do I have this anxiety in MDs office, but my HR will go up, at times, when I strap on my home BP monitor. FWIW, I believe I don’t have the most common form of hypertension, but, rather, anxiety about HAVING high blood pressure, as well as some anxiety when it comes to health issues. I’m thinking it’s time for a beta blocker, and my doc would likely agree. But I’m athletic, and resting heart rate most of the time is 50 BPM.  I’d hate to suffer side effects (ED, loss of ability to do strenuous exercise) to control the fight-or-flight response. Incidentally, my resting heart rate has recently climbed (15 BPM), as it does when I exercise too much and don’t eat enough.  One month of no exercise and more food usually get’s me back to 100%. As for the anxiety, I’m looking for comments regarding Xanax, Valium, and/or beta blockers, as well as yoga, biofeedback etc.  I’m type A personality, but never get this adrenaline rush unless it’s time to measure BP, or going on a first date Thanks, flighty-mikey

Response:

Question:

What is a good starting dose for paxil. doc said start at 20. Does it cause sexual side effects in men? What about drinking alcohol and taking it. What are some side effects that should be called into the doctor over? Sue Before you buy.

Response:

What is a good starting dose for paxil. doc said start at 20. Does it cause sexual side effects in men? What about drinking alcohol and taking it. What are some side effects that should be called into the doctor over? Sue

Hi Sue, People with anxiety disorders should start Paxil at 5mgs, increasing the dose in 5mg increments every week or so. Paxil should kick in around 6 to 8 weeks. Paxil is notorious for sexual dysfunction in men ( I will enlcose a link for a website that has alot of info on med induced sexual dysfunction. http://panicdisorder.about.com/cs/medsdysfunction/index.htm It is always advisable to not drink while taking AD`s. You should always talk to your doctor about this, and do things in moderation. Any side-effect that is causing significant distress should be discussed with your doctor. Take care Jackie

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What is a good starting dose for paxil. doc said start at 20. Does it cause sexual side effects in men? What about drinking alcohol and taking it. What are some side effects that should be called into the doctor over? Sue Hi Sue, People with anxiety disorders should start Paxil at 5mgs, increasing the dose in 5mg increments every week or so. Paxil should kick in around 6 to 8 weeks. Paxil is notorious for sexual dysfunction in men ( I will enlcose a link for a website that has alot of info on med induced sexual dysfunction. http://panicdisorder.about.com/cs/medsdysfunction/index.htm It is always advisable to not drink while taking AD`s. You should always talk to your doctor about this, and do things in moderation. Any side-effect that is causing significant distress should be discussed with your doctor. Take care Jackie

Thank you very much Jackie. Its apreciated. Sue:-) Before you buy.

Response:

What is a good starting dose for paxil. doc said start at 20.

Sigh…much too high. Start at 5 mg and stay there for a week and then raise the dose in weekly increments of 5 mg or whatever is comfortable. Does it cause sexual side effects in men?

It very often causes sexual dysfunction in men and in women. What about drinking alcohol and taking it.

Every doctor will say it’s a nono but IMO very moderate drinking won;t hurt. What are some side effects that should be called into the doctor over?

What side effects are happening? Sue

Philip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Before you buy.

Response:

Hi Sue, What is a good starting dose for paxil.

About 1/4 the smallest dose tablet. In this case 5mg. Pill cutters available at pharmacies will make cutting easier and less bloody. NOTE1: Okay this with the prescribing doctor first. There may be a good reason why this isn’t okay in some situations, but he/she would need to come up with one.   NOTE2: this doesn’t apply to Paxil, but some antidepressants are available in prolonged release formulations (Effexor XR etc). These should NOT be cut. doc said start at 20.

Doctor needs to be educated about the different needs of anxiety patients compared to those with depression. Antidepressants almost always cause an initial increase in anxiety for purely physical reasons. Most of this can be reduced, though, unfortunately, not completely avoided by starting on small doses and ramping up in similar small doses at 7-10 day intervals. Does it cause sexual side effects in men?

Despite the claims of some manufacturers, all antidepressants may. What about drinking alcohol and taking it.

1)  The biggest problem with alcohol + ADs is that the effect can be unpredictable. Some days you can drink a fair amount of alcohol without greater than usual effect, other days just a small drink will turn your legs to rubber. Alcohol should be treated with caution and no driving etc afterwards. 2) Alcohol can, often does, make anxiety disorders worse. Having 1 or 2 drinks is usually not a problem, indeed may be beneficial, but if it gets to 3-4 then 5-6 etc, you can quickly get into serious trouble because alcohol and anxiety start to feed off each other into a rapid downward spiral. What are some side effects that should be called into the doctor over?

If started at a low dose with small increases, as above, there shouldn’t be any major problems. SSRI meds are very safe, even in huge overdose quantities. Anything that does cause concern should be referred to the prescribing doctor, if only for the re-assurance value. I won’t list all the possible side effects because I can guarantee that half the folk that read it will instantly start experiencing all of them. However, full information about Paxil and other ADs can be found at www.mentalhealth.com  - click the ‘medications’ button and then scroll down the list that appears in the l/h frame. Sue

Good  luck Ian

Response:

Sue, They started me at 20, its now up to 30.  Doc told me not to drink while on the medication, said it’s not a good idea!  Don’t know about the sexual side effects in men, but, with me…well, don’t know if it’s the drug or the problems with my depression and/or anxiety.  Maybe should call doctor if there’s any signs of headaches, fever, dizziness, etc.! Kerri – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What is a good starting dose for paxil. doc said start at 20. Does it cause sexual side effects in men? What about drinking alcohol and taking it. What are some side effects that should be called into the doctor over? Sue Before you buy.

Response:

my experience has been that a lower starting dose has fewer side effects.  I can’t drink alcohol with it, either.  (one beer, okay, but it hits me like a brick wall!) It can lessen sex drive, but I didn’t have that problem. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What is a good starting dose for paxil. doc said start at 20. Does it cause sexual side effects in men? What about drinking alcohol and taking it. What are some side effects that should be called into the doctor over? Sue Before you buy.

Response:

What is a good starting dose for paxil. doc said start at 20.

I think it depends on the disorder. I have anxiety mostly but depression also. When I tried paxil, we started at 5mg for a week, then 10 then 20. Does it cause sexual side effects in men?

It did for me, but it won’t effect everyone the same way so it may not affect you that way. What about drinking alcohol and taking it.

Please don’t. It’ll make everything better if you don’t. What are some side effects that should be called into the doctor over?

I had weight loss, extreme tiredness, sexual dysfunction, involuntary muscle movements/tremors, and it made the anxiety actually worse. It all got significantly worse as soon as we went up to 20mg. That was enough for me and doc to try something else, since I don’t normally have such strong reactions to SSRI’s (I took prozac some years ago and had much milder side-effects). OTOH, a friend of mine takes paxil and had hardly any side effects and it seems to be helping him quite a bit. So, as my doc says, it’s like trying on shoes – try a med untilyou find one that "fits". IMO, it’s ok to talk to the doc about any side effects, particularly if they’re strong or really interfering with your life. We’ve recently switched me to zoloft and, although it’s still pretty early, I am not having side effects to that degree. So I’m in the same boat as you, trying different meds to find the right one…. LS Before you buy.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What is a good starting dose for paxil. doc said start at 20. Does it cause sexual side effects in men? What about drinking alcohol and taking it. What are some side effects that should be called into the doctor over? Sue Before you buy. Paxil should be started at 5mgs then slowly move up.  20mgs for depression and

30-60mgs for panic.  Also for you men.  paxil is also prescribed for premature ejaculation and TRUST me it works.  Paxil will delay your ejaculation and it wont be near as powerfull. donny Confess your sins.  Turn from your sins.  Believe in your heart.  Ask Jesus to save you.

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What is a good starting dose for paxil. doc said start at 20.

I started at 20mg and quickly rose to 60mg with no problem.  Some people seem to need smaller doses and slower increases as they complain about various annoying side effects when starting Paxil. Does it cause sexual side effects in men?

It sure does.  One of Paxil’s off label uses is for the treatment of premature ejaculation and let me tell you this drug does a fantastic job of delaying orgasm.  At 60mg I was totally unable to orgasm even after hours of trying and would just have to give up due to exhaustion and boredom. Before you buy.

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I’d ask your doctor for 20 mg "plain" Paxil tablets, and start with 10 mgs every day with dinner, after a couple weeks, raise the dose to the full 20 mg tablet.  Paxil CR is nothing more than a patent ploy used by that drug manufacturer to keep making a brand name product, because their patent ran out on Paxil – subsequently there are generic brands of plain Paxil available.   I’m hearing rumblings amonst paxil patients that some of the generics are lesser than…. You may want to try brand name Paxil.  I have no use for Paxil CR personally, as you can probably tell by my "thoughts", which you asked for. Gary   I just started Paxil CR for panic disorder. 12.5 and increasing weekly up to 37.5 hopefully.  Over the last 3 days I’ve noticed more sedation than the other SSRI’s I’ve taken.  So, I’m trying to decide if I should take it at night or daytime.  Any thoughts and how has it worked for anyone?   Thanks   Scott

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I’ve been on Paxil CR since 2003. I started at the 12.5 dosage and i’ve been at 37.5 for over a year now. It’s helped me a great deal and it’s gotten my panic disorder under control. I’m going to be coming down off of it this year actually. You know alot of people always think they need to be at the highest dosage possible. I think that you should not fall into that trap. See how the 12.5 works for you if you are okay then maybe you don’t need to increase. I went up gradually going from the 12.5 for a few months, to the 25 for a few months, and the 37.5 for over a year, and that’s where i’ve been at and it’s worked great for me. It takes time to kick in though it took about four weeks or so for it to really do the trick for me. Some of the side effects of waiting for it to kick in are dry mouth and lack of libido. While taking Paxil you may also experience weight gain. So hang in there. I’ll let you know however that Paxil does not work for everyone. It worked for me though and i’m happy about that.

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I just started Paxil CR for panic disorder. 12.5 and increasing weekly up to 37.5 hopefully.  Over the last 3 days I’ve noticed more sedation than the other SSRI’s I’ve taken.  So, I’m trying to decide if I should take it at night or daytime.  Any thoughts and how has it worked for anyone? Thanks Scott

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I switched about 16 months ago from Paxil to Celexa. It was a pretty seamless transition. Celexa has proven very effective for my panic and anxiety (like Paxil), without the sleepiness. I gained lots of weight on Paxil, but have stabilized on Celexa. And I stopped falling asleep at my desk at work every afternoon, which was happening on Paxil! I also have felt for some time that the Celexa actually gave me a better lift for my depression than the Paxil did, especially over the long haul. (I had to increase my Paxil dose after about 6 months, as it was beginning to "poop out" for the depression; I have not had to do this with Celexa.) Hello Anne How did you switch from paxil to celexa. Weaning of paxil,or just a change overnight ? Just wondering,cause I do feel the sedating effect from paxil. Would be glad with some information about the transition Love from Anna I can

Question:

Hi all,   I am currently on 150 mg effexor xr and am actually doing well. Effexor is the first antidepressant I took that seemed to make a difference. Based on that – I am happy with it. On the other hand, I can’t shake the feeling that I am living on borrowed time. I have read way too many accounts of the nightmares that many people have gone through withdrawing from the drug. Every morning when I take the pill I have a momentary twinge – like what am I doing to myself? Will it be worth it in the end? Does any other effexor user live with this vague sense of impending trouble? Paradoxically, when I started effexor I was too depressed to really care much about the withdrawal symptoms but now that I am less depressed I am starting to think about the future more and I see effexor withdrawal as a roadblock I have to overcome sooner or later before I’m ever really free from depression. -scattered

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all, I am currently on 150 mg effexor xr and am actually doing well. Effexor is the first antidepressant I took that seemed to make a difference. Based on that – I am happy with it. On the other hand, I can’t shake the feeling that I am living on borrowed time. I have read way too many accounts of the nightmares that many people have gone through withdrawing from the drug. Every morning when I take the pill I have a momentary twinge – like what am I doing to myself? Will it be worth it in the end? Does any other effexor user live with this vague sense of impending trouble? Paradoxically, when I started effexor I was too depressed to really care much about the withdrawal symptoms but now that I am less depressed I am starting to think about the future more and I see effexor withdrawal as a roadblock I have to overcome sooner or later before I’m ever really free from depression. -scattered

hi scattered… i was just as nervous when i started taking effexor but soon came to think of it as a vitamin for my brain… i’m switching to wellbutrin (well, refer to my current post), and am now withdrawing from effexor.  i was on 150mg. a day, i took 1 pill at lunch and 1 before bed… for the past three days i’ve just taken 1 pill a day and i have been waiting for the reactions on withdrawal that i’ve read about… but so far (knock on wood), i’ve had none.  i had a bad day at work and had to go cry for a few minutes – but i can’t tell whether that was because my serotonin levels dropped or just because i was stressed and having a bad day… other than that i haven’t noticed the difference yet.  my doc said i was supposed to taper and be off it within a week, with an overlap of the start of the new antidepressant i’d be taking… which seems fast compared to what i’ve read here about the length of time to come off one drug.  i say relax, and let your body react in its own way… if you’re feeling better then just be grateful for that! unfortunately for me effexor just made me sleep all the time and get forgetful, thus the change. good luck, amelie

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 I was on effexor (375mg) for two years and gradually came off it to go onto another anti depressant.  I had to go ‘cold turkey’ for 2 weeks before going on another drug.  I experienced dizziness and flu like symptoms for a few days, but nothing as bad as coming off cigarettes, so do not worry, some people may experience little or no side effects coming off this medication.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all,   I am currently on 150 mg effexor xr and am actually doing well. Effexor is the first antidepressant I took that seemed to make a difference. Based on that – I am happy with it. On the other hand, I can’t shake the feeling that I am living on borrowed time. I have read way too many accounts of the nightmares that many people have gone through withdrawing from the drug. Every morning when I take the pill I have a momentary twinge – like what am I doing to myself? Will it be worth it in the end? Does any other effexor user live with this vague sense of impending trouble? Paradoxically, when I started effexor I was too depressed to really care much about the withdrawal symptoms but now that I am less depressed I am starting to think about the future more and I see effexor withdrawal as a roadblock I have to overcome sooner or later before I’m ever really free from depression. -scattered

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Scattered. I was on 225mg and it was working fine – after lack of success with four or five other meds. Then some tests came back showing my liver was damaged (fatty liver) and the most likely cause was the Effexor. I came off it over the course of 3 weeks, 150mg week 1, 75mg week 2, 0mg week 3, then on to my new med. The side effects were the worst I have experienced on any of the meds. Severe dizziness, noises in my head, bolts of electric down my arms to my hands, etc. etc. Now, 5 weeks after beginning withdrawal, the above problems are less frequent and much more minor. Now here’s the thing. Despite the problems, I would do it again, in fact if my liver trouble could go away I would go back on the Effexor in an instant. Yes the withdrawal was a bastard, but I got over it. The point is that the Effexor worked. It has given me hope. It has shown me that it is possible for me to climb out of the black hole. At the moment I’m back in the hole and struggling badly, if I hadn’t had that window of normality after trying for so long to find a med that worked, I would give up now (it’s tempting to give up anyway!). If the Effexor is working for you then give thanks and keep on going with it as long as your doc tells you to. Incidentally, I’m assured that though it’s a known problem, the liver thing is rare. Mick.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all,   I am currently on 150 mg effexor xr and am actually doing well. Effexor is the first antidepressant I took that seemed to make a difference. Based on that – I am happy with it. On the other hand, I can’t shake the feeling that I am living on borrowed time. I have read way too many accounts of the nightmares that many people have gone through withdrawing from the drug. Every morning when I take the pill I have a momentary twinge – like what am I doing to myself? Will it be worth it in the end? Does any other effexor user live with this vague sense of impending trouble? Paradoxically, when I started effexor I was too depressed to really care much about the withdrawal symptoms but now that I am less depressed I am starting to think about the future more and I see effexor withdrawal as a roadblock I have to overcome sooner or later before I’m ever really free from depression. -scattered

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Funny thing about taking antidepressants is that I have also started to think of the future, which is something I never did….and I am in my fifties. I always did things on the spur of the moment…spontaneously, which sounds like fun, but the older ya get, the more unstable it becomes to live that way.  I just never could think past a day or week in advance at the most.  It was weird now that I think of it.  Since being on ad’s I can think about the future somewhat and seem less compulsive, but thinking about the future at my age, when all my life I didn’t…..is discombobulating to say the least. Because of my lifestyle of not thinking about the future, I have not been able to work, depression and all…and now that I want to get a job as I am thinking about my future, I am so nervous and unconfident in myself for all the years I just sat around waiting for tomorrow to come.  What a shock, when the future  becomes part of your life.  I identify with you totally.  Deb

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Well, I can tell you now that Effexor has enabled me to get back on an even keel. Having said that, I am on the lowest dose (37.5mg per day), and missing one gives the classic withdrawal, that is: electric bolts, strange vision and confusion. Still, I can live with the daftness of missing one when the bulk of my life is fine. I think I shall have to get a very sharp knife to chop up the tabs into small enough doses to wean off. Good Luck !!! Peter, Bradford, England

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all,   I am currently on 150 mg effexor xr and am actually doing well. Effexor is the first antidepressant I took that seemed to make a difference. Based on that – I am happy with it. On the other hand, I can’t shake the feeling that I am living on borrowed time. I have read way too many accounts of the nightmares that many people have gone through withdrawing from the drug. Every morning when I take the pill I have a momentary twinge – like what am I doing to myself? Will it be worth it in the end? Does any other effexor user live with this vague sense of impending trouble? Paradoxically, when I started effexor I was too depressed to really care much about the withdrawal symptoms but now that I am less depressed I am starting to think about the future more and I see effexor withdrawal as a roadblock I have to overcome sooner or later before I’m ever really free from depression. -scattered

Look, believe it or not, I do think AD’s can help.  I also strongly believe the SSRI’s are filled with serious problems. That said I suggest that you start therapy, if you have not already if you have continuing situations in your life which get you down, or add stress. Sometimes just a dozen sessions can make a great deal of difference. Don’t worry about the Effexor for a while, say six months.  At the end of the six months reevaluate the situation in your life.  I would suggest that you have both medical and psychological support in place for the withdrawal (which might not even happen for you, everyone is different) from the drug. Obviously a slow phased phase out is the way to do it, but scattered, concentrate on your old issues now, since from the tone of your post, it seems like you have experienced some relief from depression.

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<< Effexor is the first antidepressant I took that seemed to make a difference. Based on that – I am happy with it. On the other hand, I can’t shake the feeling that I am living on borrowed time. I have read way too many accounts of the nightmares that many people have gone through withdrawing from the drug. *** I had a discussion with my doctor about this yesterday. I’ve been on Effexor XR for several months; at about 225mg it seemed to stop working, so he added a small dosage of Ritalin and it helped. But I’ve been having some real downtimes lately, and when the doc suggested increasing the Effexor to 300mg I asked him the same withdrawl questions. He didn’t seem overly concerned; he said that if I chose to withdraw I’d just have to do it very, very slowly. I’m troubled by the idea of being physically dependant on this drug (what if there’s another big earthquake and the pharmacies aren’t operating?). But in the end, I’m willing to take my chances; it’s better than the uncontrollable rage and depression I felt before I started the meds. Kit

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Question:

My jogging results decreased considarably when using an antidepressant. (Forgot the name, started with an i )

Imipramine? Besides that, I slept poor, had problems with shitting (sorry, don’t know a good english phrase), dizzyness when standing up and more.

Yup.  That sounds like imipramine. Imipramine’s common side effects include   sedation   dry mouth   blurred vision   urinary retention   constipation   orthostatic hypotension (dizzyness when standing up)   weight gain (moderate)   myoclonus (involuntary muscle jerks, especially at night)   lowered blood pressure   increased heart rate In my own experience, imipramine puts me to sleep very effectively, but I often wake up after two or three hours, and sometimes have trouble getting back to sleep afterwards. I haven’t heard of any special problems with running, although sedation could be the problem, I suppose. Anyway, if you can’t tolerate the side effects, there are many other antidepressants that don’t have these particular ones.  You should mention the problems to your doctor and ask whether it would be advisable to change drugs. S. suricata

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Hello folks– I’ve been prescribed Effexor XR for just over a month for moderate depression. I started at the lower doses of 37.5 and 75 mg. for two weeks, and I’ve been on the 150 mg. dose (once a day) for nearly 3 weeks.  I’ve had very few of the *customary* side effects and I’m tolerating the 150 mg. dose well, and the medication is really working well at alleviating my depression. However, I think the medication is negatively affecting my harder runs–specifically my recent 5K to 5 mile races, and my tempo/interval workout on Wednesday evenings.  For example, I’ve slowed down about 1:30 for my 5K time (29:15 in mid-November to 30:45 on New Year’s Day), and I’m considerably slower running my interval workout when I take my pill the morning of the workout.  Yesterday I experimented by skipping my pill, and ran my workout great–like before I started on the medication.  However, last nite I had very vivid dreams while sleeping (the second time this has happened), and felt groggy when getting up–which passed after I took my pill after eating breakfast this morning. Does anyone here on the newsgroups know specifically about the cardiovascular effects of anti-depressants?  Will my running/training be compromised for as long as I’m on the medication?  I’ll be mentioning this to my psychiatrist when I see her soon, but I thought I’d ask about it here first.  Since she told me that I could expect to be on medication this time for over a year (this is my 3rd recurrence of depression in 16 years), I’d really like to get this little *wrinkle* straightened out sooner instead of later! Thanks in advance– Jean Barto Newport News, VA — "If you are going through hell, keep going." Winston Churchill

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Venlafaxine (Effexor) has a minor CNS depressant effect that in theory *could* have affected your performance. In general, sports and meds should be kept separate if possible. M99

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My jogging results decreased considarably when using an antidepressant. (Forgot the name, started with an i ) Besides that, I slept poor, had problems with shitting (sorry, don’t know a good english phrase), dizzyness when standing up and more.

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Question:

The interesting thing with St. John’s Wort, is that it alters the ‘mood/mind’ enough to allow an objective and clear perspective of the Self. And therefore a clear insight into those parts of the Self that causes the depression. Is your intent to clear yourself of the depression?… or clear yourself of the sources of that depression?

Translation: SJW is not strong enough to cure many cases of depression by itself, and works best with psychotherapy combination. By extension, an SSRI plus that kind of psychotherapy ought to be better yet? —

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commonly used slow serotonin reuptake inhibitor (SSRI)

ROTFL!  What a load of BS … —   -john

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Recent studies have shown SJW to be equally as effective as Zoloft (sertraline) and Prozac (fluoxetine) in mild to moderate depression. It also seems to have a better side-effect profile. See the references below: – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – Equivalence of St John’s wort extract (Ze 117) and fluoxetine: a randomized, controlled study in mild-moderate depression. Schrader E Int Clin Psychopharmacol 2000 Mar;15(2):61-8 Treatment with St John’s wort extract tablets (hypericum Ze 117) and the commonly used slow serotonin reuptake inhibitor (SSRI) fluoxetine was compared in patients with mild-moderate depression with entry Hamilton Depression Scale (HAM-D) (21-item) in the range 16-24, in a randomized, double-blind, parallel group comparison in 240 subjects; fluoxetine: 114 (48%), hypericum: 126 (52%). After 6 weeks’ treatment, mean HAM-D at endpoint decreased to 11.54 on hypericum and to 12.20 on fluoxetine (P < 0.09), while mean Clinical Global Impression (CGI) item I (severity) was significantly (P < 0.03) superior on hypericum, as was the responder rate (P = 0.005). Hypericum safety was substantially superior to fluoxetine, with the incidence of adverse events being 23% on fluoxetine and 8% on hypericum. The commonest events on fluoxetine were agitation (8%), GI disturbances (6%), retching (4%), dizziness (4%), tiredness, anxiety/nervousness and erectile dysfunction (3% each), while on hypericum only GI disturbances (5%) had an incidence greater than 2%. We concluded that hypericum and fluoxetine are equipotent with respect to all main parameters used to investigate antidepressants in this population. Although hypericum may be superior in improving the responder rate, the main difference between the two treatments is safety. Hypericum was superior to fluoxetine in overall incidence of side-effects, number of patients with side-effects and the type of side-effect reported. – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – "Comparison of an extract of hypericum (LI 160) and sertraline in the treatment of depression: a double-blind, randomized pilot study." Brenner R, Azbel V, Madhusoodanan S, Pawlowska M Clin Ther 2000 Apr;22(4):411-9 BACKGROUND: Hypericum (St. John’s wort) has been shown to be as efficacious and well tolerated as standard antidepressants in the treatment of depression but has not been compared with selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs). OBJECTIVE: This study compared hypericum and the SSRI sertraline in the treatment of depression. METHODS: In a double-blind, randomized study conducted in a community hospital, 30 male and female outpatients (19 women, 11 men; mean age, 45.5 years) with mild to moderate depression received 600 mg/d of a standardized extract of hypericum (LI 160) or 50 mg/d sertraline for I week, followed by hypericum 900 mg/d or sertraline 75 mg/d for 6 weeks. RESULTS: The severity of symptoms, as assessed by scores on the Hamilton Rating Scale for Depression (HAM-D) and the Clinical Global Impression scale, was significantly reduced in both treatment groups (P < 0.01). Clinical response (defined as a or =50% reduction in HAM-D scores) was noted in 47% of patients receiving hypericum and 40% of those receiving sertraline. The difference was not statistically significant. Both agents were well tolerated. A post hoc power analysis indicated that failure to reach statistical significance between treatments resulted primarily from an absence of clinical differences rather than the small sample size. CONCLUSION: The hypericum extract was at least as effective as sertraline in the treatment of mild to moderate depression in a small group of outpatients.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The interesting thing with St. John’s Wort, is that it alters the ‘mood/mind’ enough to allow an objective and clear perspective of the Self. And therefore a clear insight into those parts of the Self that causes the depression. Is your intent to clear yourself of the depression?… or clear yourself of the sources of that depression? Translation: SJW is not strong enough to cure many cases of depression by itself, and works best with psychotherapy combination. By extension, an SSRI plus that kind of psychotherapy ought to be better yet? —

com for the reply address.

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I am interested in info. on St. John’s Wort and Kava for OCD and anxiety.

Here is some info. I found on St. John’s Wort and OCD: "Gridrunner: Have you heard of some success using St. John’s Wort or 5-htp to lessen OCD? Dr. Jenike: Yes, there are a few cases where St. John’s Wort has helped OCD. In Germany, there are dozens of studies using SJW for mild to moderate depression, but its use for treating OCD is relatively new. I have tried it in quite a few patients, with not much success. But then again, most of the patients I see now, are on the more severe end of the spectrum." – http://www.healthyplace.com/Communities/OCD/site/transcripts/obsession s_ocd.htm See also: http://www.biopsychiatry.com/stjohnocd.htm

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Dear R.P.,      I have used Kava for anxiety and it does help though if your anxiety is high it may take a few days for it to really catch up with you.  To be on it is to be mellow but alert at the same time so I think it would help with OCD.                    Rusty

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am interested in info. on St. John’s Wort and Kava for OCD and anxiety. Thank you.

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In article <   "Bill & Ida Kern" < My psychiatrist said it was useless for OCD. Only good for *mild* depression. Ida

The interesting thing with St. John’s Wort, is that it alters the ‘mood/mind’ enough to allow an objective and clear perspective of the Self. And therefore a clear insight into those parts of the Self that causes the depression. Is your intent to clear yourself of the depression?… or clear yourself of the sources of that depression? The Wort (like LSD; magic mushrooms; kava-kava) open-up the psyche for deeper investigation… rather than offer a cure-all. Later Gerrit

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My psychiatrist said it was useless for OCD. Only good for *mild* depression. Ida

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am interested in info. on St. John’s Wort and Kava for OCD and anxiety. Thank you.

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I am interested in info. on St. John’s Wort and Kava for OCD and anxiety. Thank you.

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I am interested in info. on St. John’s Wort and Kava for OCD and anxiety. Thank you.

I had a lot of luck with Kava Kava for anxiety, but it brought back eczema that had lain dormant for over 6 years (and which I have yet to get rid of). Take care if you have any dermatological problems.

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The philosopher Voltaire was known to have consumed over 50 cups of coffee a day which came as a surprise to readers of Voltaire such as Nikola Tesla, the electrical engineer and inventor.  The French mathematician, Poincare, said one his mathematical advances came as the direct result of drinking a single cup of black coffee.  Caffeine is a known weak central nervous system stimulant – alerting agent – and it has been extensively studied at different medical schools and universities around the world.  Caffeine is known to increase alertness, energy, and the ability to concentrate in some people (not all). Source:  http://pubs.acs.org/hotartcl/chemtech/99/jul/negli.html In the midst of my recent efforts to have my daughter and myself assessed for ADD, my new partner and I attended a CHADD meeting. There was a presentation given on diagnosing adults by the woman who had recently assessed me. My partner suddenly began to wonder if he might have it and said he should get assessed.  As the meeting was breaking up and right in front of the presenter I asked him, "So you really think you may have ADD?" "Well, not as bad as you do." he said. "Perhaps if you didn’t drink so much coffee, you might think differently." The presenter pointed out, as I already knew, that some people self-medicate with caffeine. Then a couple of days later I asked my partner just how much coffee he consumes in a average day, because I knew he drank a lot, but I had no idea how much. He told me that he drinks an average of 20-22 mugs of coffee each day! I was shocked!  I have scoured the net for info on long-term health effects of consuming that much caffeine and there is none.  I don’t think anyone else drinks that much coffee…certainly no one that has been part of any study,  Excessive intake is said to be about 10 cups and he drinks twice that!  There are only long-term studies on people consuming up to 650 mg of caffeine per day (about 6 cups) and there are potential serious effects on that.  The so-called toxic dose is 10,000 mg (about 100 cups of coffee).  Even so, my partner is consuming what would be considered an "overdose"…and then some! His hands tremor, but otherwise, he is suffering no apparent ill effects.  I worry about ulcers and heart irregularities.  He has only been drinking this much for about the last year, since he quit drinking alcohol. I now have no doubts that he’s self-medicating undiagnosed ADD and I want him to get assessed.  I managed to convince him to cut back to 10 cups a day and gradually to 5 for the sake of his health. So far, so good. Has anyone else here tried to unknowingly self-medicate with caffeine to that extreme?  Does anyone here even know someone who drinks that much coffee consistently?

I used to drink a lot of coffee. I worked good with my ADD my irritated my aniexty something fierce. I was edgy and parinoid and my my hair trigger temper would go off without warning. I was such a joy to be around . But I love coffee so I switched to decaf. Who says you can’t have your cake and eat it too. Dami

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For years I’ve happily consumed large quantities of coffee — 32oz on the way to work, several 20oz during the day, then more at night, never kept me up. Never occured to me it might be "self-medicating", I just thought it was a relatively harmless addiction that seemed to help me get down to business. Is this true of depression, anxiety disorders, or BPD, or is it mainly ADD? – Jeff Has anyone else here tried to unknowingly self-medicate with caffeine to that extreme?  Does anyone here even know someone who drinks that much coffee consistently? I used to drink a lot of coffee. I worked good with my ADD my irritated my aniexty something fierce. I was edgy and parinoid and my my hair trigger temper would go off without warning. I was such a joy to be around . But I love coffee so I switched to decaf. Who says you can’t have your cake and eat it too.

– ‘98 Rans V-Rex    ==–%   Waltham, MA    ()    O http://www.BlueSNAFU.com – v2.35

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For years I’ve happily consumed large quantities of coffee — 32oz on the way to work, several 20oz during the day, then more at night, never kept me up. Never occured to me it might be "self-medicating", I just thought it was a relatively harmless addiction that seemed to help me get down to business. Is this true of depression, anxiety disorders, or BPD, or is it mainly ADD?

Although, I don’t know for sure, it think it’s mainly ADD. Since caffine is a stimulant and gives you that extra kick in the butt that helps. I remember during some of my caffinated days, I would drink a large iced coffee and clean the whole house. Housecleaning is very difficult for me. My mom was, and is, the same way. She was never diagnosed with ADD but she has all the symptoms, but shes worse than me but that’s another story. I’m not sure if caffine helps depression I have that too but it never seemd to make a difference with me. Anxiety I’m sure it dosen’t help since caffine is a form of amphetmine and as I’ve found personally after long usage it was very bad for my anxiety so I had to stop. Dami – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Has anyone else here tried to unknowingly self-medicate with caffeine to that extreme?  Does anyone here even know someone who drinks that much coffee consistently? I used to drink a lot of coffee. I worked good with my ADD my irritated my aniexty something fierce. I was edgy and parinoid and my my hair trigger temper would go off without warning. I was such a joy to be around . But I love coffee so I switched to decaf. Who says you can’t have your cake and eat it too.

Response:

The philosopher Voltaire was known to have consumed over 50 cups of coffee a day which came as a surprise to readers of Voltaire such as Nikola Tesla, the electrical engineer and inventor.  The French mathematician, Poincare, said one his mathematical advances came as the direct result of drinking a single cup of black coffee.  Caffeine is a known weak central nervous system stimulant – alerting agent – and it has been extensively studied at different medical schools and universities around the world.  Caffeine is known to increase alertness, energy, and the ability to concentrate in some people (not all). Source:  http://pubs.acs.org/hotartcl/chemtech/99/jul/negli.html – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In the midst of my recent efforts to have my daughter and myself assessed for ADD, my new partner and I attended a CHADD meeting. There was a presentation given on diagnosing adults by the woman who had recently assessed me. My partner suddenly began to wonder if he might have it and said he should get assessed.  As the meeting was breaking up and right in front of the presenter I asked him, "So you really think you may have ADD?" "Well, not as bad as you do." he said. "Perhaps if you didn’t drink so much coffee, you might think differently." The presenter pointed out, as I already knew, that some people self-medicate with caffeine. Then a couple of days later I asked my partner just how much coffee he consumes in a average day, because I knew he drank a lot, but I had no idea how much. He told me that he drinks an average of 20-22 mugs of coffee each day! I was shocked!  I have scoured the net for info on long-term health effects of consuming that much caffeine and there is none.  I don’t think anyone else drinks that much coffee…certainly no one that has been part of any study,  Excessive intake is said to be about 10 cups and he drinks twice that!  There are only long-term studies on people consuming up to 650 mg of caffeine per day (about 6 cups) and there are potential serious effects on that.  The so-called toxic dose is 10,000 mg (about 100 cups of coffee).  Even so, my partner is consuming what would be considered an "overdose"…and then some! His hands tremor, but otherwise, he is suffering no apparent ill effects.  I worry about ulcers and heart irregularities.  He has only been drinking this much for about the last year, since he quit drinking alcohol. I now have no doubts that he’s self-medicating undiagnosed ADD and I want him to get assessed.  I managed to convince him to cut back to 10 cups a day and gradually to 5 for the sake of his health. So far, so good. Has anyone else here tried to unknowingly self-medicate with caffeine to that extreme?  Does anyone here even know someone who drinks that much coffee consistently?

Before you buy.

Response:

I’ve got you all beat.. at work we make a POT of coffee using THREE scoops of CAFE BUSTELLO (expresso coffee) at home I make      A CUP of coffee using TWO SCOOPS (yes two scoops per cup) of the same coffee. (a scoop is 1/8 of a cup)

Ugh…I am literally shuddering at the thought of this.  For the record, as much as my partner loves his coffee, I hate the taste of it and your recipe sounds disgustingly bitter to me.   My reaction to the caffeine contained in colas and coffee:  I get horribly nauseous & shaky.  I haven’t let cola pass my lips in over 10 years because of this.   I prefer weak tea…with a packet of equal & lots of coffeemate. Briana

Response:

Expresso has less caffine than a lighter roast.  Also I don’t find it bitter at all if it is fresh which is why I make one cup at a time. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve got you all beat.. at work we make a POT of coffee using THREE scoops of CAFE BUSTELLO (expresso coffee) at home I make         A CUP of coffee using TWO SCOOPS (yes two scoops per cup) of the same coffee. (a scoop is 1/8 of a cup) Ugh…I am literally shuddering at the thought of this.  For the record, as much as my partner loves his coffee, I hate the taste of it and your recipe sounds disgustingly bitter to me.   My reaction to the caffeine contained in colas and coffee:  I get horribly nauseous & shaky.  I haven’t let cola pass my lips in over 10 years because of this.   I prefer weak tea…with a packet of equal & lots of coffeemate. Briana

– Nessa — If trains stop at trains stations, what happens at work stations?

Response:

Expresso has less caffine than a lighter roast.  Also I don’t find it bitter at all if it is fresh which is why I make one cup at a time.

i saw my gp today and tried to tell him some of my ‘difficulties’. so i mentioned that i drank loads and loads of coffee and he asked why and i said because it helps me function so he said ‘ah, you’re caffeine addicted.’. i mean , god, how the hell am i going to explaing to a shrink what my life is like when they have such answers parat ? they can only dx within their learned boundaries. i have appt. with shrink in two weeks. is it a good idea to phone with them first or write, or what ? sammi. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve got you all beat.. at work we make a POT of coffee using THREE scoops of CAFE BUSTELLO (expresso coffee) at home I make A CUP of coffee using TWO SCOOPS (yes two scoops per cup) of the same coffee. (a scoop is 1/8 of a cup) Ugh…I am literally shuddering at the thought of this.  For the record, as much as my partner loves his coffee, I hate the taste of it and your recipe sounds disgustingly bitter to me. My reaction to the caffeine contained in colas and coffee:  I get horribly nauseous & shaky.  I haven’t let cola pass my lips in over 10 years because of this. I prefer weak tea…with a packet of equal & lots of coffeemate. Briana — Nessa — If trains stop at trains stations, what happens at work stations?

Response:

If you feel that the central nervous system stimulant – alerting agent –  caffeine may be helpful to you, the best place to start is with your family doctor.  That’s what I did.  C. Thomas Wild The most notable behavioral effects of caffeine – increased alertness, energy, and ability to concentrate – occur after consumption of low to moderate doses (50-300 mg). Source:  http://pubs.acs.org/hotartcl/chemtech/99/jul/negli.html Attention Deficit Disorder: http://www.merck.com/pubs/mmanual/section19/chapter262/262d.htm http://www.angelfire.com/biz/addsyndrome/index.html http://homepages.msn.com/RightWay/c_thomas_wild Domeena C. Renshaw, M.D., in The Hyperactive Child, reports a study by Schnackenberg, who substituted caffeine for methylphenidate (Ritalin) in eleven children who were on the latter medication for their hyperkinetic symptoms.  She reports that his results with two cups of coffee (equivalent to 200-300 mg. caffeine) per day were as satisfactory as the amphetamines, at one tenth of the cost. There are a number of FDA approved medicines such as NoDoz which list caffeine as the active ingredient.  Often there are cautions such as too much caffeine may cause nervousness, irritability, sleeplessness and, occasionally, rapid heart beat.  The products are generally marketed for occasional use only and they are not intended for use as a substitute for sleep.  If a person wants to find out more about the products, the person should consult their family doctor.  That’s what I did. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In the midst of my recent efforts to have my daughter and myself assessed for ADD, my new partner and I attended a CHADD meeting. There was a presentation given on diagnosing adults by the woman who had recently assessed me. My partner suddenly began to wonder if he might have it and said he should get assessed.  As the meeting was breaking up and right in front of the presenter I asked him, "So you really think you may have ADD?" "Well, not as bad as you do." he said. "Perhaps if you didn’t drink so much coffee, you might think differently." The presenter pointed out, as I already knew, that some people self-medicate with caffeine. Then a couple of days later I asked my partner just how much coffee he consumes in a average day, because I knew he drank a lot, but I had no idea how much. He told me that he drinks an average of 20-22 mugs of coffee each day! I was shocked!  I have scoured the net for info on long-term health effects of consuming that much caffeine and there is none.  I don’t think anyone else drinks that much coffee…certainly no one that has been part of any study,  Excessive intake is said to be about 10 cups and he drinks twice that!  There are only long-term studies on people consuming up to 650 mg of caffeine per day (about 6 cups) and there are potential serious effects on that.  The so-called toxic dose is 10,000 mg (about 100 cups of coffee).  Even so, my partner is consuming what would be considered an "overdose"…and then some! His hands tremor, but otherwise, he is suffering no apparent ill effects.  I worry about ulcers and heart irregularities.  He has only been drinking this much for about the last year, since he quit drinking alcohol. I now have no doubts that he’s self-medicating undiagnosed ADD and I want him to get assessed.  I managed to convince him to cut back to 10 cups a day and gradually to 5 for the sake of his health. So far, so good. Has anyone else here tried to unknowingly self-medicate with caffeine to that extreme?  Does anyone here even know someone who drinks that much coffee consistently?

Before you buy.

Response:

Years ago, I came back from shore leave and discovered that the the hospital corpsman had hooked up an IV tube at my bunk–substituting a Coke bottle for the plasma. His explanation:  You drink so much of the stuff, you might as well main-line it. Paul

Response:

Years ago, I came back from shore leave and discovered that the the hospital corpsman had hooked up an IV tube at my bunk–substituting a Coke bottle for the plasma. His explanation:  You drink so much of the stuff, you might as well main-line it. Paul

My wife is a nurse, and I keep asking her to give me IV coffee.

Response:

Years ago, I came back from shore leave and discovered that the the hospital corpsman had hooked up an IV tube at my bunk–substituting a Coke bottle for the plasma. His explanation:  You drink so much of the stuff, you might as well main-line it. Paul My wife is a nurse, and I keep asking her to give me IV coffee.

You mean you have  blood in your coffee stream? — Nessa — does fuzzy logic tickle

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Years ago, I came back from shore leave and discovered that the the hospital corpsman had hooked up an IV tube at my bunk–substituting a Coke bottle for the plasma. His explanation:  You drink so much of the stuff, you might as well main-line it. Paul My wife is a nurse, and I keep asking her to give me IV coffee. You mean you have  blood in your coffee stream?

ROLF, or ROFL, or ROFLMAO or MFOSPALROFL err, shanks shor she shjoke, shbut shi shave shoo shlean she shreen shoff. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — Nessa — does fuzzy logic tickle

Response:

I’ve got you all beat.. at work we make a POT of coffee using THREE scoops of CAFE BUSTELLO (expresso coffee)

What?  You work at *my* office? That super-strong stuff smells good, but… ICK!!!  But then, I’ve never been much of a coffee drinker, unless it’s mocha.  Chewy, whose coffee you can float a horse shoe in, harasses me for liking a little coffee with my milk and sugar. — Light, Love, & Laughter, Kitten, Goddess of Mischief "Thousands of years ago, cats were worshipped as gods. Cats have never forgotten this." – Anonymous "Just for today, do not worry;  Just for today, do not anger; Earn your living honestly; Honor your parents, teachers and elders; Show gratitude for every living thing."- Dr. Mikao Usui Before you buy.

Response:

I’ve got you all beat.. at work we make a POT of coffee using THREE scoops of CAFE BUSTELLO (expresso coffee) at home I make  A CUP of coffee using TWO SCOOPS (yes two scoops per cup) of the same coffee. (a scoop is 1/8 of a cup) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – When I was finally diagnosed at age 40 I was drinking between ten and fifteen pints of coffee per day … often instant coffee with a TABLESPOON of granules per cup. I find the International Coffees** make a wonderful creamer, especially with espresso…. AmMen **International Coffees are a line of instant coffee mixed with flavorings, sugar, and HeavenKnowsWhat. Before you buy.

– Nessa — does fuzzy logic tickle

Response:

  Has anyone else here tried to unknowingly self-medicate with caffeine   to that extreme?  Does anyone here even know someone who drinks that much coffee consistently?

I drank coffee from the age of about eight or nine … as a kid I would take a 30 oz flask of black coffee to school. In those days we had free school milk, so I would have half the coffee at morning break with the milk, and keep the rest for lunch. When I was finally diagnosed at age 40 I was drinking between ten and fifteen pints of coffee per day … often instant coffee with a TABLESPOON of granules per cup. What was interesting was that I didn’t get any sort of buzz, and could stop for a few days without any withdrawal symptoms apart from feeling more " unfocussed " Ian Ford

Response:

When I was finally diagnosed at age 40 I was drinking between ten and fifteen pints of coffee per day … often instant coffee with a TABLESPOON of granules per cup.

I find the International Coffees** make a wonderful creamer, especially with espresso…. AmMen **International Coffees are a line of instant coffee mixed with flavorings, sugar, and HeavenKnowsWhat. Before you buy.

Response:

Curious…. I remember hearing about a kind of bottled water with caffeine added to it(don’t remember brand name, tho). Anyone try to make coffee with *that*? Buny

Response:

His hands tremor, but otherwise, he is suffering no apparent ill effects.

It is possible that the tremors in the hands could be the result od something besides the caffeine (*could*).  My famyl has a history of hand tremors, which is a benign condition called "familial tremor" or "essential tremor".  It has to do with overcompensating for fine motor skills. http://www.parkinsonsinstitute.org/tremor.html Even though this says "parkinson’s", ET is *not* parkinson’s syndrome. Some things can make my hands tremor more-caffeine is one of them. Fatigue, stress(physical or emotional) can do it.   So are certain medications, such as my asthma meds.  But even when not on these meds, or when I got "off" of caffeine, my hands still tremor to some degree. Then again, his tremors can be something else entirely.  Like ADHD, it is a matter of finding out what it is *not* before one discovers what it *is*. Buny

Response:

[...] I now have no doubts that he’s self-medicating undiagnosed ADD and I want him to get assessed.  I managed to convince him to cut back to 10 cups a day and gradually to 5 for the sake of his health. So far, so good. Has anyone else here tried to unknowingly self-medicate with caffeine to that extreme?  Does anyone here even know someone who drinks that much coffee consistently?

ADDers do not measure coffee consumption in cups; the pot is the standard measure. Cutting back to 5 is good for your health. I might be exaggerating slightly, but perhaps the answer to your question is ‘yes’?

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [...] I now have no doubts that he’s self-medicating undiagnosed ADD and I want him to get assessed.  I managed to convince him to cut back to 10 cups a day and gradually to 5 for the sake of his health. So far, so good. Has anyone else here tried to unknowingly self-medicate with caffeine to that extreme?  Does anyone here even know someone who drinks that much coffee consistently? ADDers do not measure coffee consumption in cups; the pot is the standard measure. Cutting back to 5 is good for your health.

Yup…5 pots George I might be exaggerating slightly, but perhaps the answer to your question is ‘yes’?

Before you buy.

Response:

In the midst of my recent efforts to have my daughter and myself assessed for ADD, my new partner and I attended a CHADD meeting. There was a presentation given on diagnosing adults by the woman who had recently assessed me. My partner suddenly began to wonder if he might have it and said he should get assessed.  As the meeting was breaking up and right in front of the presenter I asked him, "So you really think you may have ADD?" "Well, not as bad as you do." he said. "Perhaps if you didn’t drink so much coffee, you might think differently." The presenter pointed out, as I already knew, that some people self-medicate with caffeine. Then a couple of days later I asked my partner just how much coffee he consumes in a average day, because I knew he drank a lot, but I had no idea how much. He told me that he drinks an average of 20-22 mugs of coffee each day! I was shocked!  I have scoured the net for info on long-term health effects of consuming that much caffeine and there is none.  I don’t think anyone else drinks that much coffee…certainly no one that has been part of any study,  Excessive intake is said to be about 10 cups and he drinks twice that!  There are only long-term studies on people consuming up to 650 mg of caffeine per day (about 6 cups) and there are potential serious effects on that.  The so-called toxic dose is 10,000 mg (about 100 cups of coffee).  Even so, my partner is consuming what would be considered an "overdose"…and then some! His hands tremor, but otherwise, he is suffering no apparent ill effects.  I worry about ulcers and heart irregularities.  He has only been drinking this much for about the last year, since he quit drinking alcohol. I now have no doubts that he’s self-medicating undiagnosed ADD and I want him to get assessed.  I managed to convince him to cut back to 10 cups a day and gradually to 5 for the sake of his health. So far, so good. Has anyone else here tried to unknowingly self-medicate with caffeine to that extreme?  Does anyone here even know someone who drinks that much coffee consistently?

Response:

snip His hands tremor, but otherwise, he is suffering no apparent ill effects.  I worry about ulcers and heart irregularities.

I did that once in grad school.  Ulcers are generally caused by bacteria or non-steroidal anti-inflamatory drugs.  High coffee intake can cause cardiac arrhythmias.  It’s pretty spooky but it goes away. He has only been drinking this much for about the last year, since he quit drinking alcohol. I now have no doubts that he’s self-medicating undiagnosed ADD and I want him to get assessed.  I managed to convince him to cut back to 10 cups a day and gradually to 5 for the sake of his health. So far, so good. Has anyone else here tried to unknowingly self-medicate with caffeine to that extreme?  Does anyone here even know someone who drinks that much coffee consistently?

It’s pretty hard to figure caffeine levels because it’s quite easy to make a cup of coffee four times as strong as the average weak North American coffee.  I could fix 5 cups that would have as much caffeine as 20 restaurant cups. – George Before you buy.

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Question:

Maybe it’s me on effexor withdrawal, but the proliferation of these multiple threads sucks.  Is there a problem with some people’s browsers?  Why can’t people continue the thread instead of splintering it into another category?  It’s really irritating, especially since my browser is slow and so the extra scrolling, guessing if the discussion is a continuation or new takes a lot of time and money. basically, I’m otta here.  Too slow. Best, AD Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

Actually, a lot of your problem is your browser. Sure, people should be careful not to splinter threads, but a good browser will put most of that back where it goes. I see that you use Netscape3.01 Gold and Windows 95. Chances are that you have room on your hard drive for Agent, which will solve most of your problems. I used to get irritated at the same thing. Keith – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Maybe it’s me on effexor withdrawal, but the proliferation of these multiple threads sucks.  Is there a problem with some people’s browsers? Why can’t people continue the thread instead of splintering it into another category?  It’s really irritating, especially since my browser is slow and so the extra scrolling, guessing if the discussion is a continuation or new takes a lot of time and money. basically, I’m otta here.  Too slow. Best, AD Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

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