Question:

I just switched physicians.  I just got another cold, and I’ve had enough.  The next time I have an appointment with him I’m going to speak to him about switching back to Vanceril.  It’s less convenient (4x/day), but I’d rather not deal with the side effects of Aerobid anymore.  Or the taste of it, for that matter.  :-)

Suggestion:  Pulmicort ™ (brand of budesonide) has been approved by the FDA for use in the United States, although it may not yet be commonly available.  It is quite a bit stronger than Aerobid ™ (brand of flunisolide).  You might try asking your doctor to try you on Pulmicort ™. I’ve been on it for over a year with zero problems. (However, I am adrenally insufficient, and had to have both hips replaced, because of long-term prednisone.  I am currently on hydrocortisone replacement therapy.  Your mileage may vary.)

Response:

I’ve been on Aerobid inhaler (4 puffs in the morning and 4 at night) for two years. I have not suffered an asthma attack since. However, I noticed that often after inhaling Aerobid, I get very nervous, jittery, irritable and begin to tremble. Supposedly, Aerobid, an inhaled steroid, should not

Since stopping with freon propelled inhilators I no longer get the shakes. Also, my asthma is much better to the point that I am convinced that the propellant was aggravating my asthma. I now use Bricanyl and Pulmicort both of which are from ASTRA pharma Inc . in Mississauga, Ontario. These are packaged in "turbuhalers" which are breath activated. That is, by breathing in the medication in powder form is picked up. I will never use inhilators with propellants again.

Response:

(JSterl7511) writes: I’ve been on Aerobid inhaler (4 puffs in the morning and 4 at night) for two years. I have not suffered an asthma attack since. However, I noticed that often after inhaling Aerobid, I get very nervous, jittery, irritable and begin to tremble. Supposedly, Aerobid, an inhaled steroid, should not cause these symptoms which are often associated with injected, oral tablets or other systemic steroids.

False!  While systemic effects are uncommon, they are *not* unheard of. According to the manufacturer’s own package insert that comes with the

Aerobid inhaler: Adverse reactions reported include "nervous system" effects: dizziness, irritability, nervousness, shakiness (incidence 3-9%).  You should ask your doctor or pharmacist for this package insert and read it yourself, or consult the PDR. I use Aerobid inhaler myself–and I’ve had problems too: Ever since I started on Aerobid last year, I’ve had many more colds,

averaging about 1 cold every 8 weeks!  (Before starting Aerobid I used to get only 2-3 colds per year.)  And sure enough, the reported incidence of "cold symptoms" is 15%, and "upper respiratory infection" is 25% !  If this is a side effect of Aerobid, it’s a nasty one for me because those colds all exacerbate my asthma for weeks. I used to be on Vanceril before this.  From my comparison of the package

inserts and other references I’ve consulted, I have concluded that Aerobid seems to have a greater incidence of systemic side effects than Vanceril does. I just switched physicians.  I just got another cold, and I’ve had

enough.  The next time I have an appointment with him I’m going to speak to him about switching back to Vanceril.  It’s less convenient (4x/day), but I’d rather not deal with the side effects of Aerobid anymore.  Or the taste of it, for that matter.  :-) Why does AeroBid list so many side effects [adverse events] in their package insert and the PDR? FACT:  AeroBid was approved by the FDA in 1984, just after the mandate from FDA that ALL adverse events, whether directly associated with the drug or not, be listed. Thus, Vanceril, Beclovent and Azmacort – all approved by FDA prior to the mandate, do not list such occurrences. Flovent (fluticasone), recently approved by FDA, also lists all adverse events in their package insert. Pulmicort (budesonide),  has been submitted to FDA and received an ‘approvable letter’ in June ‘96 but not yet approved, will also list all adverse events. Thus, AeroBid has no greater side effect risk than does Vanceril, Beclovent or Azmacort. The same can be said about Flovent and Pulmicort. A suggestion that may help to reduce or even eliminate systemic related effects of AeroBid (including taste) or any inhaled steroid is to try an AeroChamber. This is a holding chamber (spacer device) that has been shown to reduce the amount of drug that ends up in the mouth and throat by six fold, without impairing the small drug particle availability which actually navigates to the lower airways and provides the topical benefit of inhaled steroid (antiinflammatory) therapy. If you have been on a 2000 mcg (8 puffs daily) dose for 2 years without an asthma attack, try the AeroChamber before changing horses, so to say. Tim Wood

Response:

I’ve been on Aerobid inhaler (4 puffs in the morning and 4 at night) for two years. I have not suffered an asthma attack since. However, I noticed that often after inhaling Aerobid, I get very nervous, jittery, irritable and begin to tremble. Supposedly, Aerobid, an inhaled steroid, should not cause these symptoms which are often associated with injected, oral tablets or other systemic steroids. Anyone else experience these problems with Aerobid? What did you do? Cut down the dosage or move onto another medication. I’d appreciate hearing from someone with similar experience. Thanks. John  Sterling

Response:

I’ve been on Aerobid inhaler (4 puffs in the morning and 4 at night) for two years. I have not suffered an asthma attack since. However, I noticed that often after inhaling Aerobid, I get very nervous, jittery, irritable and begin to tremble. Supposedly, Aerobid, an inhaled steroid, should not cause these symptoms which are often associated with injected, oral tablets or other systemic steroids.

False!  While systemic effects are uncommon, they are *not* unheard of. According to the manufacturer’s own package insert that comes with the Aerobid inhaler: Adverse reactions reported include "nervous system" effects: dizziness, irritability, nervousness, shakiness (incidence 3-9%).  You should ask your doctor or pharmacist for this package insert and read it yourself, or consult the PDR. Anyone else experience these problems with Aerobid? What did you do?

I use Aerobid inhaler myself–and I’ve had problems too: Ever since I started on Aerobid last year, I’ve had many more colds, averaging about 1 cold every 8 weeks!  (Before starting Aerobid I used to get only 2-3 colds per year.)  And sure enough, the reported incidence of "cold symptoms" is 15%, and "upper respiratory infection" is 25% !  If this is a side effect of Aerobid, it’s a nasty one for me because those colds all exacerbate my asthma for weeks. I used to be on Vanceril before this.  From my comparison of the package inserts and other references I’ve consulted, I have concluded that Aerobid seems to have a greater incidence of systemic side effects than Vanceril does. I just switched physicians.  I just got another cold, and I’ve had enough.  The next time I have an appointment with him I’m going to speak to him about switching back to Vanceril.  It’s less convenient (4x/day), but I’d rather not deal with the side effects of Aerobid anymore.  Or the taste of it, for that matter.  :-) — Steven D. Litvintchouk                  "There seems to be no mainframe Disclaimer:  As far as I am aware,       in which we’re living." the opinions expressed herein                 — President Bill Clinton are not those of my employer.

Response:

Question:

At 3 puffs of Flovent 110 daily (i.e. daily dose of 330 mcg.), I experience significant dysphonia ( hoarseness) At 2 puffs of Flovent 220 daily (i.e. daily dose of 440 mcg.), I experience no dysphonia I have observed this repeatedly over 2 years of daily use. Has anyone else had this experience? Perhaps others with dysphonia on Flovent 110 might try the 220. —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

Hi, that certainly is a very interesting piece of information, and I am eager to try this "experiment".  Thanks for sharing.

Response:

Question:

My doc put me on a new inhaler called SereVent. Any experience out there (positive or negative) with this drug? I have done some research on it but I would also be interested in personal experiences. Thanks. Janet

Janet,    Most importantly, remember that serevent is not a resuce med…If you are having trouble right now use albuterol.  Serevent is a long term med use it twice a day….say 7a-7p.  Some meds givwe some people nightmares…funny, but I have nightmares if I take my multivitamin before bed!?   Never skip your serevent even if you are feeling good.  This also goes for any inhaled steroids you are taking…Steroids (inhaled) take a couple of weeks to build up in the body…so never skip your inhaled steroids! bill

Response:

I’ve been using Serevent for about 2 years and it’s enabled me to cut out Ventolin almost totally. Initially it gave me cramps in my feet- still does occasionally and I’ve noticed my eyesight has deteriorated (need to use glasses for reading larger print than before) but this may have happened anyway. I would give this drug 9.9 marks out of 10! As someone else mentioned you can use it early (borrow a puff ahead of next dose) if you feel your chest tightening and provided you are resting you will avoid need to use Ventolin as all will be well within 15 mins.

Response:

I’ve used Serevent for around 6 months or so.  I personally think it is wonderful.  I take 2 puffs twice a day.  I used to use 2 inhalers of proventil a month, and now I barely need to use one.   I also take atrovent and proventil 2 puffs, 4 times a day, and flovent 2 puffs twice a day.  It all seems to work pretty good. My doc put me on a new inhaler called SereVent. Any experience out there

(positive or negative) with this drug? I have done some – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – research on it but I would also be interested in personal experiences. Thanks. Janet

Response:

I tried SereVent a couple of weeks ago.  Results were somewhat beneficial but the doctor had to take me off of it because it made me too shaky.  I was practically unable to do anything manipulative with my hands while I was on it.  The shakiness would last until about 10 hours after using it. Angela

This is a side effect some people have when initially prescribed the maximum dose of 2 puffs twice a day (of the MDI). Some of these people can build up a tolerance for it by starting at a reduced dose, eg 1 puff once/day in the evening. A dry powder form, the Serevent Diskus, has recently been approved by the FDA, expected to be available next year. The DPI form is twice the strength of the MDI form so you use 1 puff twice a day. See http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/97/09/22/glx_y0022_1.html Ellis

Response:

My doc put me on a new inhaler called SereVent. Any experience out there (positive or negative) with this drug? I have done some research on it but I would also be interested in personal experiences. Thanks. Janet

I love this stuff!  I will probably only take it during the winter, but it has helped even out my peak flow readings (they used to stay in the green area, but were all over the place, now they are very consistently within a 40 point range), it makes it so I don’t cough when I’m out in cold weather (2 block walk to campus was terrible, and getting from the edge of campus to my classes was worse) and I haven’t had nearly the number of side effects from it as I did from my rescue inhaler (MaxAir).  It’s kind of a pain to do 2 puffs twice a day from 2 different inhalers (I’ve started carrying it all in an insulated lunch bag), but if it means I don’t cough until I choke, I think I’ll put up with it. janet (so there *are* some other people out there named Janet –  I never knew anybody else with my name until about a year ago!)  :)

Response:

My doc put me on a new inhaler called SereVent. Any experience out there (positive or negative) with this drug? I have done some research on it but I would also be interested in personal experiences. Thanks. Janet

I have used Serevent before. It made me shaky for quite a while. Interestingly, the shorter acting Ventolin, a similar drug, does not affect me as badly. For prevention, I an on Flovent, and it lessens my need for bronchodilators like Serevent and Ventolin. Many have good experiences with Serevent, though, so if it works well and has little or no side effects, stick with it. Donald Hellen (Note: Anti-Spam Measure… remove the "1" in front of our address to reply by email.)

Response:

I tried SereVent a couple of weeks ago.  Results were somewhat beneficial but the doctor had to take me off of it because it made me too shaky.  I was practically unable to do anything manipulative with my hands while I was on it. The shakiness would last until about 10 hours after using it. Angela

Try sticking with the Serevent for a few months.  Some people on this type of medication get over the shakiness after a while; I did (with Brethine, a tablet). — David Matthews, Boston University

Response:

I tried SereVent a couple of weeks ago.  Results were somewhat beneficial but the doctor had to take me off of it because it made me too shaky.  I was practically unable to do anything manipulative with my hands while I was on it.  The shakiness would last until about 10 hours after using it. Angela That which doesn’t break us makes us stronger.

Response:

My doc put me on a new inhaler called SereVent. Any experience out there (positive or negative) with this drug? I have done some research on it but I would also be interested in personal experiences. Thanks. Janet

It works very well for me. —                 Read about the new book from Brustas Consulting                     at  http://users.abac.com/pbrustas                 Computer Renaissance  8396 Parkway Drive                      La Mesa, CA  91942  (619) 464-3711

Response:

My doc put me on a new inhaler called SereVent. Any experience out there (positive or negative) with this drug? I have done some research on it but I would also be interested in personal experiences. Thanks. Janet

Janet, I love my Serevent inhaler!  I have been taking this medicine for a little over a year now, and my asthma has really improved with continued and concientious use (paired with Flovent 110).  I started noticing results in about one month.  I think I  like it so much because I don’t have to take the Proventil four times a day anymore. It was hard for me to meet that dosage and very inconvienient.  As always, pay attention to your own symptoms.  If you don’t notice a change, or if you feel like you are getting worse, call your doctor right away!  Good luck! We are each of us angels with only one wing. And we can only fly embracing each other.                    –Luciano De Creschenzo

Response:

I have used serevent now for nearly 2 years. It is brilliant, it works so well for me. It just enforces what your reliever does but it is active for about 12 hours. The only problem I have is that with the accuhaler you can taste it and it doesn’t taste too good but other than that it is great. I don’t know if you have been told, but it is worth using it before your preventer. Hope this helps. love Hannah – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My doc put me on a new inhaler called SereVent. Any experience out there (positive or negative) with this drug? I have done some research on it but I would also be interested in personal experiences. Thanks. Janet

Response:

My doc put me on a new inhaler called SereVent. Any experience out there (positive or negative) with this drug? I have done some research on it but I would also be interested in personal experiences. Thanks. Janet

It works great for me, 2 puffs twice a day. Initially I had to get my allergist to put in a special request to my HMO 3 years ago to get them to approve it–because of my nocturnal asthma. If I’m going folk dancing in the evening, I often take one of the 2 evening puffs early, it works for exercise too, takes about 15 min to start taking effect. However the max dose is 4 puffs/day, so if I need more bronchodilation, I use Ventolin. The only side effects I noticed, initially I seemed to have nightmares if I used it just before going to bed, but it was OK if I used it at least 2 hr before. After a couple months that phenomenon went away. I also use Vanceril DS 2 pf x2, Intal and TheoDur 200mg x2. I just recently added the TheoDur back in. It seems to give better overall control. Ellis

Response:

My doc put me on a new inhaler called SereVent. Any experience out there (positive or negative) with this drug? I have done some research on it but I would also be interested in personal experiences. Thanks. Janet

Response:

Question:

Let’s see; the OP said specifically that the onset of the increased symptoms was directly related to irrigation..

One can’t tell reliably what is related to what just by sequence of occurrences.   Better to look for underlying factors to avoid mixing up triggers with causes. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

. Odd that his thyroid would slow to a crawl each time he irrigated, eh?  :-)

Response:

So you’re saying that irrigation is the trigger of a metabolic slowdown?

No I am not.

Response:

On 12/5/05 1:23 PM, in article 1133817823.808457.32…@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com, "dougred…@gmail.com" <dougred…@gmail.com

wrote: I am not using bottled water, just a PUR filter on my faucet.  Should I use distilled water with the Breathe Ease XL?

Unless your tap water is especially bad,regular PUR filter or any bottled water is OK with Breathe.ease XL

Response:

On 12/5/05 2:03 PM, in article d0e9p15e7ofpv4tf2ge3smtfv4p4umc…@4ax.com, – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -"Don Brady" <dbr…@pobox.com

wrote: On 5 Dec 2005 13:21:29 -0800, dougred…@gmail.com wrote: Don Brady wrote: Really! Hmm I wonder if there could possibly be a metabolic or immune status issue then. This is entirely possible; I am actually a hypopituitary patient.  My endocrinologist Dr. Te Friedman is actually at Cedars Sinaii where Dr. Grossan is.  I’ve been planning to make an appointment with Dr. Grossan the next time I see Dr. Friedman. In a nutshell – Dr. Friedman is about as thorough an endocrinologist as can be found anywhere, and he’s gotten all of my hormones into the mid to high normal range that were low (which was most of them). Do you know what your TSH (thyroid) numeric value is?  It is a blood test. If possible, the numeric value is desirable rather than a conclusion as refernce ranges vary and are being revised. I don’t recall TSH or T3, T4 measurements but at the time I was on 88mcg of T4 which Dr. Friedman raised to 125mcg, and based on a later test, back down to 117mcg. Also I would check fasting B12 level and white blood cell morphology. I can’t answer either of these at the moment, although I do take B12 supplements. Are you tired all the time? Yes indeed.  I am not sure if this is due to some yet to be found hormonal issue related to my pituitary (head trauma is what caused the damage) or if this is sleep related.  I suspect sleep, as there HAVE been times when I have slept well and noticed a definite improvement. But, it appears to be dependent on both possible nocturnal asthma being under control, AND clear nasal breathing.  Nasal CPAP was worthless as I had predicted considering how closed off my nasal passages are.  You can’t force air through pinholes. I have a CPAP machine and I’m considering trying it with an OPAP (oral) mask as it seems at the moment at least, mouth breathing at night is my best and possibly only option. Ok that is what I suspected – there are some underlying metabolic/hormonal factiors here.   You are right on top of them though. Lack of sleep also will cause inflammation through the body, so it could be that alone. I  think that it is among those factors that the cause of your sinusitis lies…..

One of the important findings re sleep apnea is the need to take antioxidant vitamin supplements due to the accumulation of oxidative products during the apneic periods.

Response:

I should note as well that between my nose and lower airways, I get sleep apnea as a result.  When I use Advair and the Afrin / Singulair / Claritin nasal spray before bed, I sleep better than I have ever slept.  If I only use Advair and no nasal spray I still have restless sleep and visa versa.

Response:

On 1 Dec 2005 16:52:44 -0800, dougred…@gmail.com wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Here is my history: – Allergy shots for several years – Septoplasty & turbinectomy 3 years ago – Using oral claritin and singulair before bed – tried all the various nasal sprays to no avail – tried irrigation both isotonic and hypertonic and it didn’t help much – allergist had me try Afrin a few times just to see what would happen. It did almost nothing. After reading this board for awhile I tried concocting my own spray. First I tried saline + Singulair + Benedryl and this spray seemed to work a bit, but was still disappointing Next, I tried 1/2 oz Afrin, mixed with 30mg crushed Singulair and 3 crushed Claritin tablets.  This actually works pretty well. Next, I’m going to try saline (Breathe Ease) 1/2 ounce + 3 crushed Singulair tabs and 3 crushed Claritin tabs to see if it will have the same effect WITHOUT the Afrin. My question is: 1) am I using too much of the Claritin or Singulair and 2) could I mix these with a cortisone spray instead? Also, I believe the spray I tried mixing in Benadryl, I used too little Benadryl.  I wonder if I should try Benadryl instead of Claritin at a higher dose? I only use the Afrin combination once a day, before bed.  This helps my sleep a LOT.  I clearly have a real problem breathing through the nose and also some twitchy lower airways (and possible nocturnal asthma) and I’m hoping to come up with a spray combination that I can use several times per day without worrying about resistance or making the problem worse.  I’m thinking: 1) Use a corisone + Singulair + Claritin spray 2) Start hypertonic irrigation again with Breathe EaseXL twice per day 3) Hopefully, combining #1 and #2 will keep my nose clear. 4) Continue allergy shots and hope that eventually, they cure my nose ailments. All comments welcome.

Afrin is often (always?) addictive if used for over a few days so it is not recommended to  use it continually. Some of the others are antihistamines.  They can be ok but can tend to dry out your sinuses too much which can limit the drainage needed to keep them clear. Yes this stops the irritating drainage onto the turbinates but may have its own price long term.  I would get a CT scan to make sure that sinusitis is not the underlying problem (if not done already) and that you would not make it worse by preventing drainage with too much drying. The steroid spray has few problems. I’d bet you are allergic or sensitive to dust or mold in your work or home and that if you could totally clear that up (very hard to do), that might eliminate the need for all of these medicines. Meanwhile  and get whatever medication combo you are taking signed off on by your allergist.  As long as you do the latter, then you are a lot safer than totally winging it on your own…

Response:

On 12/1/05 7:30 PM, in article 7uevo1tgdobbcic79n1eo220jqvevb9…@4ax.com, – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -"Don Brady" <dbr…@pobox.com

wrote: On 1 Dec 2005 16:52:44 -0800, dougred…@gmail.com wrote: Here is my history: – Allergy shots for several years – Septoplasty & turbinectomy 3 years ago – Using oral claritin and singulair before bed – tried all the various nasal sprays to no avail – tried irrigation both isotonic and hypertonic and it didn’t help much – allergist had me try Afrin a few times just to see what would happen. It did almost nothing. After reading this board for awhile I tried concocting my own spray. First I tried saline + Singulair + Benedryl and this spray seemed to work a bit, but was still disappointing Next, I tried 1/2 oz Afrin, mixed with 30mg crushed Singulair and 3 crushed Claritin tablets.  This actually works pretty well. Next, I’m going to try saline (Breathe Ease) 1/2 ounce + 3 crushed Singulair tabs and 3 crushed Claritin tabs to see if it will have the same effect WITHOUT the Afrin. My question is: 1) am I using too much of the Claritin or Singulair and 2) could I mix these with a cortisone spray instead? Also, I believe the spray I tried mixing in Benadryl, I used too little Benadryl.  I wonder if I should try Benadryl instead of Claritin at a higher dose? I only use the Afrin combination once a day, before bed.  This helps my sleep a LOT.  I clearly have a real problem breathing through the nose and also some twitchy lower airways (and possible nocturnal asthma) and I’m hoping to come up with a spray combination that I can use several times per day without worrying about resistance or making the problem worse.  I’m thinking: 1) Use a corisone + Singulair + Claritin spray 2) Start hypertonic irrigation again with Breathe EaseXL twice per day 3) Hopefully, combining #1 and #2 will keep my nose clear. 4) Continue allergy shots and hope that eventually, they cure my nose ailments. All comments welcome. Afrin is often (always?) addictive if used for over a few days so it is not recommended to  use it continually. Some of the others are antihistamines.  They can be ok but can tend to dry out your sinuses too much which can limit the drainage needed to keep them clear. Yes this stops the irritating drainage onto the turbinates but may have its own price long term.  I would get a CT scan to make sure that sinusitis is not the underlying problem (if not done already) and that you would not make it worse by preventing drainage with too much drying. The steroid spray has few problems. I’d bet you are allergic or sensitive to dust or mold in your work or home and that if you could totally clear that up (very hard to do), that might eliminate the need for all of these medicines. Meanwhile  and get whatever medication combo you are taking signed off on by your allergist.  As long as you do the latter, then you are a lot safer than totally winging it on your own…

Your are out there all alone, no one can guide you because no one has studied this. Merck spoke of a singular nasal spray some years ago but … I don’t know what the solubility of these products are. In theory you can open the benadryl capsule and use that. The coating of the claritin is a problem. Let us know how your experiment works out. If it does, get a patent.

Response:

Here is my history: – Allergy shots for several years – Septoplasty & turbinectomy 3 years ago – Using oral claritin and singulair before bed – tried all the various nasal sprays to no avail – tried irrigation both isotonic and hypertonic and it didn’t help much – allergist had me try Afrin a few times just to see what would happen.  It did almost nothing. After reading this board for awhile I tried concocting my own spray. First I tried saline + Singulair + Benedryl and this spray seemed to work a bit, but was still disappointing Next, I tried 1/2 oz Afrin, mixed with 30mg crushed Singulair and 3 crushed Claritin tablets.  This actually works pretty well. Next, I’m going to try saline (Breathe Ease) 1/2 ounce + 3 crushed Singulair tabs and 3 crushed Claritin tabs to see if it will have the same effect WITHOUT the Afrin. My question is: 1) am I using too much of the Claritin or Singulair and 2) could I mix these with a cortisone spray instead? Also, I believe the spray I tried mixing in Benadryl, I used too little Benadryl.  I wonder if I should try Benadryl instead of Claritin at a higher dose? I only use the Afrin combination once a day, before bed.  This helps my sleep a LOT.  I clearly have a real problem breathing through the nose and also some twitchy lower airways (and possible nocturnal asthma) and I’m hoping to come up with a spray combination that I can use several times per day without worrying about resistance or making the problem worse.  I’m thinking: 1) Use a corisone + Singulair + Claritin spray 2) Start hypertonic irrigation again with Breathe EaseXL twice per day 3) Hopefully, combining #1 and #2 will keep my nose clear. 4) Continue allergy shots and hope that eventually, they cure my nose ailments. All comments welcome. Doug

Response:

On 12/5/05 11:52 AM, in article 4569p19iud5l544s8bc1ju1hlpbv5cv…@4ax.com, – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -"Don Brady" <dbr…@pobox.com

wrote: On 5 Dec 2005 11:39:13 -0800, dougred…@gmail.com wrote: Don and Susan, thank you for your comments about Afrin. I have found unfortunately that my nose becomes "addicted" to Afrin even using it only once per day, before bed.  However, it is my understanding that it is a preservative in Afrin that causes this and not the actual active ingredient??? Why on EARTH would they not change their formula if that is the case, or why wouldn’t a competitor release a generic with a preservative that does not have this problem?? Actually I think it is the active ingredient but I am sure that others will claify. As far as cleaning up my area goes, before having to move for work reasons I had a brand new house built with all hardwood flooring, and the best Consumer Reports whole-house Aprilaire air purifier.  I also had top of the line HEPA room units in my bedroom and my office.  All pillows / bedding allergen proofed.  There literally was NOWHERE for any allergen to be in those rooms.  They may have well have been Intel cleanrooms.  This didn’t help, either Really!   Hmm I wonder if there could possibly be a metabolic or immune status issue then. Do you know what your TSH (thyroid) numeric value is?  It is a blood test. If possible, the numeric value is desirable rather than a conclusion as refernce ranges vary and are being revised. Also I would check fasting B12 level and white blood cell morphology. Are you tired all the time? Are you on any kind of fad diet or do you have major digestive problems?

one way to break the afrin addicition is to dilute the afrin with saline 1/2 and 1/2 each week.

Response:

On 5 Dec 2005 19:01:27 -0800, dougred…@gmail.com wrote:

Don Brady wrote: Ok that is what I suspected – there are some underlying metabolic/hormonal factiors here.   You are right on top of them though. Lack of sleep also will cause inflammation through the body, so it could be that alone. I  think that it is among those factors that the cause of your sinusitis lies….. Unfortunately if that is the case I don’t know what can be done, as all of my hormone levels are now at least midrange and in most cases towards high normal.

If it was only recently then it will take time for all layers of the skin etc. to fully recover. But the sleep angle is the other one I referred to.

Response:

Don Brady wrote:

Ok that is what I suspected – there are some underlying metabolic/hormonal factiors here.   You are right on top of them though. Lack of sleep also will cause inflammation through the body, so it could be that alone. I  think that it is among those factors that the cause of your sinusitis lies…..

Unfortunately if that is the case I don’t know what can be done, as all of my hormone levels are now at least midrange and in most cases towards high normal.

Response:

I just nuke the filtered tap water to kill any microbes that might be present.  Your experience sounds like irrigating is making your sinuses worse (I don’t think you’re withdrawing from antigens) and it made me wonder if you were shooting pathogens up your nose. It sounds as if that’s a strong possibility.

How much time is required to ensure that all microbes are killed? I assume just bring the water to a boil and let it cool?

Response:

It appears he’s irrigating with unsterile water.  That one’s a lot more obvious and easy to fix.

As I said, I do not agee that it is more obvious.  I happen to think it is extremely unlikely that mere unsterile water matters much.   Lots of people go swimming every day.  

I’m interested in your metabolism theory; do you have cites or some material that indicates this may be the case?  Also, what do you mean by slow?  Are you referring to thyroid status, insulin resistance, or something else?

The most common cause of slow metabolism is low thyroid (which is extremely common!. Here’s one reference: http://health.yahoo.com/centers/allergy/154 "Non-allergic rhinitis may also be triggered by pregnancy, thyroid problems, stress or by certain medications. These triggers of non-allergic rhinitis do not cause your body’s immune system to react. Thus they are not an allergen. But they may still irritate your mucous membranes, causing inflammation and your rhinitis symptoms." Really it is no surprise – low thyroid has effects throughout the body and on the skin.  How could it not have the potential to affect the linings of the sinuses and nose also? These matters are covered in any book on endocrinology. As to sleep, it  also profoundly affects natural cortisol levels.  Inflammation throughout the body will result from lack of enough sleep.   The worst thing is that if this is the case in an individual, the sinuses are just one marker. Elevated inflammation will increase the risk of heart disease also amd many other diseases. This is covered in many recent articles on sleep. My sinuses are now getting back close to what they were right after surgery (very good) just by getting *lots* more sleep. In me, sleep is *far* more signficant than streroid sprays.   My thyroid is also bodferline low (TSH is borderline high) but in me it is part;y caused by low caloric intake, which is not too hard to remedy…..

Response:

I am not using bottled water, just a PUR filter on my faucet.  Should I use distilled water with the Breathe Ease XL?

Response:

On 5 Dec 2005 13:21:29 -0800, dougred…@gmail.com wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Don Brady wrote: Really! Hmm I wonder if there could possibly be a metabolic or immune status issue then. This is entirely possible; I am actually a hypopituitary patient.  My endocrinologist Dr. Te Friedman is actually at Cedars Sinaii where Dr. Grossan is.  I’ve been planning to make an appointment with Dr. Grossan the next time I see Dr. Friedman. In a nutshell – Dr. Friedman is about as thorough an endocrinologist as can be found anywhere, and he’s gotten all of my hormones into the mid to high normal range that were low (which was most of them). Do you know what your TSH (thyroid) numeric value is?  It is a blood test. If possible, the numeric value is desirable rather than a conclusion as refernce ranges vary and are being revised. I don’t recall TSH or T3, T4 measurements but at the time I was on 88mcg of T4 which Dr. Friedman raised to 125mcg, and based on a later test, back down to 117mcg. Also I would check fasting B12 level and white blood cell morphology. I can’t answer either of these at the moment, although I do take B12 supplements. Are you tired all the time? Yes indeed.  I am not sure if this is due to some yet to be found hormonal issue related to my pituitary (head trauma is what caused the damage) or if this is sleep related.  I suspect sleep, as there HAVE been times when I have slept well and noticed a definite improvement. But, it appears to be dependent on both possible nocturnal asthma being under control, AND clear nasal breathing.  Nasal CPAP was worthless as I had predicted considering how closed off my nasal passages are.  You can’t force air through pinholes. I have a CPAP machine and I’m considering trying it with an OPAP (oral) mask as it seems at the moment at least, mouth breathing at night is my best and possibly only option.

Ok that is what I suspected – there are some underlying metabolic/hormonal factiors here.   You are right on top of them though. Lack of sleep also will cause inflammation through the body, so it could be that alone. I  think that it is among those factors that the cause of your sinusitis lies…..

Response:

On Mon, 05 Dec 2005 15:06:26 -0500, Susan <neverm…@nomail.com

wrote: More horse than zebralike, I wonder if the irrigation solution is sterile?

Fair enough question but I actually think that slow metabolism is a major factor in soem forms of sinsusitis. View may differ on which is the horse and which is the zebra….

Response:

Don Brady wrote:

Really! Hmm I wonder if there could possibly be a metabolic or immune status issue then.

This is entirely possible; I am actually a hypopituitary patient.  My endocrinologist Dr. Te Friedman is actually at Cedars Sinaii where Dr. Grossan is.  I’ve been planning to make an appointment with Dr. Grossan the next time I see Dr. Friedman. In a nutshell – Dr. Friedman is about as thorough an endocrinologist as can be found anywhere, and he’s gotten all of my hormones into the mid to high normal range that were low (which was most of them).

Do you know what your TSH (thyroid) numeric value is?  It is a blood test. If possible, the numeric value is desirable rather than a conclusion as refernce ranges vary and are being revised.

I don’t recall TSH or T3, T4 measurements but at the time I was on 88mcg of T4 which Dr. Friedman raised to 125mcg, and based on a later test, back down to 117mcg.

Also I would check fasting B12 level and white blood cell morphology.

I can’t answer either of these at the moment, although I do take B12 supplements.

Are you tired all the time?

Yes indeed.  I am not sure if this is due to some yet to be found hormonal issue related to my pituitary (head trauma is what caused the damage) or if this is sleep related.  I suspect sleep, as there HAVE been times when I have slept well and noticed a definite improvement. But, it appears to be dependent on both possible nocturnal asthma being under control, AND clear nasal breathing.  Nasal CPAP was worthless as I had predicted considering how closed off my nasal passages are.  You can’t force air through pinholes. I have a CPAP machine and I’m considering trying it with an OPAP (oral) mask as it seems at the moment at least, mouth breathing at night is my best and possibly only option.

Are you on any kind of fad diet or do you have major digestive problems?

No fad diets.  I don’t believe in them.  No digestive problems that I am aware of aside from excess stomach acid and this can be eliminated by dietary adjustments.  But, I LOVE hot / spicy foods unfortunately lol. Thank you for the help. Doug

Response:

Don and Susan, thank you for your comments about Afrin. I have found unfortunately that my nose becomes "addicted" to Afrin even using it only once per day, before bed.  However, it is my understanding that it is a preservative in Afrin that causes this and not the actual active ingredient??? Why on EARTH would they not change their formula if that is the case, or why wouldn’t a competitor release a generic with a preservative that does not have this problem?? As far as cleaning up my area goes, before having to move for work reasons I had a brand new house built with all hardwood flooring, and the best Consumer Reports whole-house Aprilaire air purifier.  I also had top of the line HEPA room units in my bedroom and my office.  All pillows / bedding allergen proofed.  There literally was NOWHERE for any allergen to be in those rooms.  They may have well have been Intel cleanrooms.  This didn’t help, either.  My allergist referred me to an ENT and I had a CT which showed no infection but I did have oversized turbinates, and one turbinate had a cyst / nodule or something on it. I had at turbinectomy and that didn’t help, either. Dr. Grossan, I’m actually not using Claritin, I am using Costco generic and this does not appear to have any sort of coating on it.  Since Afrin was starting to give me rebound problems I quit using it and started using Singulair + Claritin in saline.  It seemed to help a bit, but not NEARLY as much.  Not enough help to even bother so I quit using spray entirely.  My nose has completely recovered from the Afrin as I didn’t use it very long. However, I HAVE continued to use my Hydropulse 2X per day, hypertonic. This time around, it seems to be having a positive effect and it’s only been a few days now.  I am using Breathe Ease XL this time, whereas last time I was just using regular salt and baking soda.  Since irrigating however, (and this happened last time as well) I have felt TERRIBLE – I would liken it to the "withdrawal" one may feel when going on a diet that restricts a lot of foods they previously ate.  Really foggy head, very tired, can definitely feel it in my sinuses and eyes. I am guessing that this is my body reacting to the abscencse (or greatly reduced level) of offending allergens in my nasal passages and hence the "withdrawal" feeling? I am hoping that what will happen if I continue to irrigate is, this will go away and I will feel better than before.  How common are these symptoms and any idea how long this process can take?

Response:

On 5 Dec 2005 11:39:13 -0800, dougred…@gmail.com wrote:

Don and Susan, thank you for your comments about Afrin. I have found unfortunately that my nose becomes "addicted" to Afrin even using it only once per day, before bed.  However, it is my understanding that it is a preservative in Afrin that causes this and not the actual active ingredient??? Why on EARTH would they not change their formula if that is the case, or why wouldn’t a competitor release a generic with a preservative that does not have this problem??

Actually I think it is the active ingredient but I am sure that others will claify.

As far as cleaning up my area goes, before having to move for work reasons I had a brand new house built with all hardwood flooring, and the best Consumer Reports whole-house Aprilaire air purifier.  I also had top of the line HEPA room units in my bedroom and my office.  All pillows / bedding allergen proofed.  There literally was NOWHERE for any allergen to be in those rooms.  They may have well have been Intel cleanrooms.  This didn’t help, either

Really!   Hmm I wonder if there could possibly be a metabolic or immune status issue then. Do you know what your TSH (thyroid) numeric value is?  It is a blood test. If possible, the numeric value is desirable rather than a conclusion as refernce ranges vary and are being revised. Also I would check fasting B12 level and white blood cell morphology. Are you tired all the time? Are you on any kind of fad diet or do you have major digestive problems?

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All! I posted this question before, but I don’t think it made it so I’ll try again. Sorry if it’s a duplication, but I’m rather desparate for an answer. I have cough evident asthma. At this time of year, the coughing can tend to get a bit much (especially as I earn my living playing the flute). I was wondering if cough supressants are safe for occasional use, or if I should try to ride it out until  my Pulmicort gets things under control. If it is okay to use them, is there a specific kind I should look for? (I live in Canada, if that makes a big difference.) Thanks in advance.< I would say NO.  It was this treatment with hydrocodone that put me in the hospital with plugs in my lungs.  To suppress the cough means you stop the action of keeping the mucous out of your lungs, a very dangerous thing. Sue M.

Hi All,      My Doctor has treated my cough with hydrocodine when it was determined to be from bronchitis and not prouducing any mucous. The continuous coughing without bringing anything up caused me a lot of pain. Just another side of the story. Mike C.

Response:

Oh, and good luck.

Response:

Hi All!

I posted this question before, but I don’t think it made it so I’ll try again. Sorry if it’s a duplication, but I’m rather desparate for an answer. I have cough evident asthma. At this time of year, the coughing can tend to get a bit much (especially as I earn my living playing the flute). I was wondering if cough supressants are safe for occasional use, or if I should try to ride it out until  my Pulmicort gets things under control. If it is okay to use them, is there a specific kind I should look for? (I live in Canada, if that makes a big difference.) Thanks in advance.< I would say NO.  It was this treatment with hydrocodone that put me in the hospital with plugs in my lungs.  To suppress the cough means you stop the action of keeping the mucous out of your lungs, a very dangerous thing. Sue M.

Response:

Don’t know a much technically, but I occasionally use Tussey-Organdin, and it seems to help greatly.

Response:

Over here on the East Coast the pollen count is still quite low, oh to be in lotus land like you. On the more serious side, we used cough medicine (Triaminic) for my young son’s asthma early in his condition and it helped.  I tried it recently when his asthma coughing was much worse and it didn’t even touch it, our **G.P.’s** question when asked was whether it was an antihistamine or not, since antihistamine would impact the underlying problem whether in cough medicine form or separate. It seems the proper cough medicine will give some relief which is good by itself, but, as noted in Wing Lee’s posting, if it’s only suppressing the cough you still have the mucous build up in the lungs.  From that point my wife (who is also asthmatic) and I think that **regular** use of cough suppressant in itself is probably not getting to the route cause. For my son I think he wasn’t moving the mucous, therefore it built up, and finally his coughing kicked in just as hard, but possibly with worse underlying lung function. I believe this type of problem is the reason for the warning for asthmatics on cough medicine bottles (at least the ones I’ve read), i.e.: a) if needed routinely you need may need to consider other management options, and b) the **possibility** of masking more serious attacks.   Once in a while, its probably O.K. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All! I posted this question before, but I don’t think it made it so I’ll try again. Sorry if it’s a duplication, but I’m rather desparate for an answer. I have cough evident asthma. At this time of year, the coughing can tend to get a bit much (especially as I earn my living playing the flute). I was wondering if cough supressants are safe for occasional use, or if I should try to ride it out until  my Pulmicort gets things under control. If it is okay to use them, is there a specific kind I should look for? (I live in Canada, if that makes a big difference.) Thanks in advance.

Response:

Hi   I’ve used Benylin and Delsym for my coughs with no problem along with taking my Pulmicort and Ventolin.I would use it only at night to get some uninterrupted sleep. It is not recommended that asthmatics use cough syrups because they will mask an uncontrolled attack.I would check with your doc with doubling your dose of Pulmicort to get the asthma under control then tapering down to a maintenance dose.I find that the Pulmicort usually kicks in within 2 days, sometimes longer if I’ve let it go a little too long.If it doesn’t kick in and the cough worsens you may be on your way to needing some extra meds. Roseanne – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All! I posted this question before, but I don’t think it made it so I’ll try again. Sorry if it’s a duplication, but I’m rather desparate for an answer. I have cough evident asthma. At this time of year, the coughing can tend to get a bit much (especially as I earn my living playing the flute). I was wondering if cough supressants are safe for occasional use, or if I should try to ride it out until  my Pulmicort gets things under control. If it is okay to use them, is there a specific kind I should look for? (I live in Canada, if that makes a big difference.) Thanks in advance.

Response:

Hi All! I posted this question before, but I don’t think it made it so I’ll try again. Sorry if it’s a duplication, but I’m rather desparate for an answer. I have cough evident asthma. At this time of year, the coughing can tend to get a bit much (especially as I earn my living playing the flute). I was wondering if cough supressants are safe for occasional use, or if I should try to ride it out until  my Pulmicort gets things under control. If it is okay to use them, is there a specific kind I should look for? (I live in Canada, if that makes a big difference.) Thanks in advance.

Response:

Question:

YOU SAID YOU WAS LEAVIN’ !!!!  doncha hate when people come to yer house, advertise they’re leavin, get in tha dang car… then come back’n stay awhile? JUST when ya get nekkid and start eatin a nuked artichoke, feelin’ like you can breathe agin? ok.. i’m gunna call ya Uncle Buck from this day forward .Yoga helps a lot, and specially CBT. CBT ain’t cognitive behavioral therapy where i come from, Uncle Buck.. and i gotchur CBT !!!! Sagan, and hypochondriac. (no, english is not my mother tongue

(cept when it’s convenient)  and by tha way.. WHO ASKED YA?

Response:

I have been on Atenolol 25mg which is a beta blocker and about the lowest dose around, in fact my doctor told me that it has only been around 2 or 3 years.  I’ve been taking it for about a year now and I have to say I feel a lot more rested and together than when I was on no medication at all. Panic Attacks are rare now, although I still get bouts of anxiety but I guess that everyone.  One thing though, coming off it is annoying because of the shakes but because of my low doasge my doctor said it wouldn’t neccesarily be that much of a problem. Daniko.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Tom I take Xanax and a beta blocker, but I have a pacemaker so the beta blocker is to lower the heart rate when the pacer isn’t doin it’s job…sometimes it fires off to a rate of nearly 200bpm. If you get on a beta blocker, take it at night because it tends to make you tired and feel crappy (due to the lowering of the heart rate). — If you sing a country song backwards, you get your job and your wife back. Hi, Although I don’t have frequent panic attacks, my heart races in doctor office, and blood pessure soars.  I’ve been on 20 mg/day of an ACE inhibitor, and BP varies from 110/70 in summer to 135/85 in winter as measured by home monitor (cause unknown).  This is an established cycle over past three years. I almost considered asking to reduce the med, since I got some dizziness when standing when BPs were 105/65 every summer. Most problematic, not only do I have this anxiety in MDs office, but my HR will go up, at times, when I strap on my home BP monitor. FWIW, I believe I don’t have the most common form of hypertension, but, rather, anxiety about HAVING high blood pressure, as well as some anxiety when it comes to health issues. I’m thinking it’s time for a beta blocker, and my doc would likely agree. But I’m athletic, and resting heart rate most of the time is 50 BPM.  I’d hate to suffer side effects (ED, loss of ability to do strenuous exercise) to control the fight-or-flight response. Incidentally, my resting heart rate has recently climbed (15 BPM), as it does when I exercise too much and don’t eat enough.  One month of no exercise and more food usually get’s me back to 100%. As for the anxiety, I’m looking for comments regarding Xanax, Valium, and/or beta blockers, as well as yoga, biofeedback etc.  I’m type A personality, but never get this adrenaline rush unless it’s time to measure BP, or going on a first date Thanks, flighty-mikey

Response:

Although I don’t have frequent panic attacks, my heart races in doctor office, and blood pessure soars. Most problematic, not only do I have this anxiety in MDs office, but my HR will go up, at times, when I strap on my home BP monitor. FWIW, I believe I don’t have the most common form of hypertension, but, rather, anxiety about HAVING high blood pressure, as well as some anxiety when it comes to health issues.

Hi Tom. This sounds very familiar to me. I have exactly the same problem/fear though I had more frequent attacks (one every three days) until I started to take xanax and zoloft. I feel quite well now. I’ve found that my dosage is fine, or perhaps in the borderline, at 3.5mg of Xanax XR (1.5-0.5-1.5) and 75mg of Zoloft. Sometimes I take 0.5mg of Ativan if I feel a bit anxious or Xanax IR for special occasions My resting HR is among 60 and 65 bpm, and during a Holter test, it decreased to 40 being asleep, which you know is normal, and increased to 140!!! in the afternoon because of my fear while thinking about the possible results of the test. I also had white coat HBP (140-155 sistolic and 90-95 diastolic), while my normal BP (during a 24h. monitoring was 137-87) and I was VERY anxious that whole day, I didn’t sleep at all :/ (I was not taking benzos). The lowest BP I’ve seen in body was 130/80, one night, after the doc at the ER told me I was not dying (the first time I had a panic attack), I felt so well and happy that didn’t notice they were measuring my BP Yoga helps a lot, and specially CBT. Change your point of view, stop thinking about your health/yourself. This was MHO. Good luck. Sagan, and hypochondriac. (no, english is not my mother tongue

Response:

Gary and others, Thank you for the replies.  You have eased my anxiety, and all have diagnosed me quite accurately….you’re hired.  Imagine being anxious because BP is not 120/80, or because sleep is not perfect, or because resting heart rate increases from 50 to 65 BPM.  That’s me. I suspect all of my recent ailments are related to doing too much (running, volleyball, weights), without paying enough attention to food and water intake, and paying too much attention to heart rate and blood pressure.  Interestingly, overtraining symptoms (OK, from what I’ve read in the medical literature) include anxiety, moodiness, and insomnia.  My sleep in near normal now that I’ve backed off the excessive/obsessive exercise! I have an excellent benefit plan and will see someone in the employee assistance program.  If medication is the answer, I will consider it. Thanks again for the replies.  I will stay tuned here to keep tabs on all the latest and greatest. Tom – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Tom, it just occured to me that I left out one thing I wanted to tell you. The current zeitgeist in medicine is to treat anxiety with SSRI antidepressants, such as Paxil, Effexor etc, or tricyclic antidepressants, such as desipramine or nortryptiline..  In that you referenced some episodes of what are likely postural hypotension (dizziness when standing), a tricyclic antidepressant (TCA) would not be a particularly good choice for you – these drugs have a ‘moderate’ affinity for alpha 1 adrenergic receptor blockade, which is the primary reason why postural hypotension is such a common side effect with these agents.  Celexa (an SSRI) is my personal favorite because it is the most selective agent for the serotonin receptor – ten times moreso than Paxil, despite the fact that Paxil is clearly the most potent inhibitor of serotonin reuptake.  Potency is mainly a good predictor of adverse events and drug interactions, whereas selectivity will be a better predictor of clinical results.  In the slang of the psychiatry industry, Celexa (or lexapro if you like) is more "clean". Having taken many of these drugs myself, I’ve also found that Celexa is the most anxiolytic of them that I’ve tried.  Another thing I wanted to mention but forgot – I’ve been taking Xanax for 13 years now, and the dose is still the same, and it works just fine every single day. –Gary

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Although I don’t have frequent panic attacks, my heart races in doctor office, and blood pessure soars. Most problematic, not only do I have this anxiety in MDs office, but my HR will go up, at times, when I strap on my home BP monitor. FWIW, I believe I don’t have the most common form of hypertension, but, rather, anxiety about HAVING high blood pressure, as well as some anxiety when it comes to health issues. Hi Tom. This sounds very familiar to me. I have exactly the same problem/fear though I had more frequent attacks (one every three days) until I started to take xanax and zoloft. I feel quite well now. I’ve found that my dosage is fine, or perhaps in the borderline, at 3.5mg of Xanax XR (1.5-0.5-1.5) and 75mg of Zoloft. Sometimes I take 0.5mg of Ativan if I feel a bit anxious or Xanax IR for special occasions My resting HR is among 60 and 65 bpm, and during a Holter test, it decreased to 40 being asleep, which you know is normal, and increased to 140!!! in the afternoon because of my fear while thinking about the possible results of the test. I also had white coat HBP (140-155 sistolic and 90-95 diastolic), while my normal BP (during a 24h. monitoring was 137-87) and I was VERY anxious that whole day, I didn’t sleep at all :/ (I was not taking benzos). The lowest BP I’ve seen in body was 130/80, one night, after the doc at the ER told me I was not dying (the first time I had a panic attack), I felt so well and happy that didn’t notice they were measuring my BP Yoga helps a lot, and specially CBT. Change your point of view, stop thinking about your health/yourself.

Now that is good advice Sagan, and is also very familiar. Now where have I heard that before?! ;o)

Response:

Tom, it just occured to me that I left out one thing I wanted to tell you. The current zeitgeist in medicine is to treat anxiety with SSRI antidepressants, such as Paxil, Effexor etc, or tricyclic antidepressants, such as desipramine or nortryptiline..  In that you referenced some episodes of what are likely postural hypotension (dizziness when standing), a tricyclic antidepressant (TCA) would not be a particularly good choice for you – these drugs have a ‘moderate’ affinity for alpha 1 adrenergic receptor blockade, which is the primary reason why postural hypotension is such a common side effect with these agents.  Celexa (an SSRI) is my personal favorite because it is the most selective agent for the serotonin receptor – ten times moreso than Paxil, despite the fact that Paxil is clearly the most potent inhibitor of serotonin reuptake.  Potency is mainly a good predictor of adverse events and drug interactions, whereas selectivity will be a better predictor of clinical results.  In the slang of the psychiatry industry, Celexa (or lexapro if you like) is more "clean". Having taken many of these drugs myself, I’ve also found that Celexa is the most anxiolytic of them that I’ve tried.  Another thing I wanted to mention but forgot – I’ve been taking Xanax for 13 years now, and the dose is still the same, and it works just fine every single day. –Gary

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Many physicians are even ill-informed on the full depth and breadth of the subject of benzodiazepines.  When *taken for an indicated condition in the amount prescribed* benzodiazepines RARELY show evidence of tolerance or tachyphylaxis (needing to take more of the drug to get the same result). Over about 30 days, and often less, they DO lose their ability to sedate generally, so are not an especially good choice for sleep medicines in the long term – for most people.  I work with hundreds of MD’s and can absolutely assure you that a blood pressure of 135/85 is something that they would be UTTERLY unconcerned with.  The American Cardiology Association says that ideally one should have the diastolic (bottom number) pressure at 85 or less, so I’d keep an eye on the sodium intake. IF your pressure were to rise further, particularly the diastolic part, the first thing they’d likely want to do would be to add a mild diuretic to your ace-inhibitor, usually hydrochlorothiazide (HCTZ) As an athlete with a low resting heart rate and a BP like that, you would likely be unremarkable to any cardiologist, and I’ve worked in some pretty fancy shmanzy places where virtually everything was reacted to and treated aggressively.  The point:  don’t worry so much.  If ya can’t stop worrying, get some Xanax or some anxiolytic drug from your doctor – he should be far more interested in that problem than in your enviable pulse and blood pressure.  Kudos to you for exercising, it does keep anxiety from getting totally out of hand for a lot of people. I’ll even go so far as to say that if your physician actually agreed to give you a beta blocker with numbers like that (in that the drug isn’t indicated at all), I’d fire his ass.  It is clinically dangerous to administer any amount of beta blockade to someone with a resting heart rate of 50. Kindest Regards, Gary You will probably get plenty of "yes" votes for taking Xanax. I’ve heard that the effect lessens if taken regularly. In my opinion, a person with a resting heart rate that hovers in the 50’s ought not to be messing with beta blockers. You may be right, but I don’t think many knowledgible MDs would be unconcerned with a BP of 135/85. Also, as it appears you are mildly over-concerned about the "numbers" that indicate "good health", be aware that beta blockers can easily cause a rise in serum cholesterol levels. That’s what I’ve heard.  I’ll pass thanks. Exercising too much and not eating enough do not sound like difficult I have no one to blame but myself.  Funny how all of my sedentary friends and relatives all feel dandy 24/7.  My New Years resolution on Nov 1: exercise less eat more work less vacation more…. Thanks for the input. Mike Hi, Although I don’t have frequent panic attacks, my heart races in doctor office, and blood pessure soars.  I’ve been on 20 mg/day of an ACE inhibitor, and BP varies from 110/70 in summer to 135/85 in winter as measured by home monitor (cause unknown).  This is an established cycle over past three years. I almost considered asking to reduce the med, since I got some dizziness when standing when BPs were 105/65 every summer. Most problematic, not only do I have this anxiety in MDs office, but my HR will go up, at times, when I strap on my home BP monitor. FWIW, I believe I don’t have the most common form of hypertension, but, rather, anxiety about HAVING high blood pressure, as well as some anxiety when it comes to health issues. I’m thinking it’s time for a beta blocker, and my doc would likely agree. But I’m athletic, and resting heart rate most of the time is 50 BPM.  I’d hate to suffer side effects (ED, loss of ability to do strenuous exercise) to control the fight-or-flight response. Incidentally, my resting heart rate has recently climbed (15 BPM), as it does when I exercise too much and don’t eat enough.  One month of no exercise and more food usually get’s me back to 100%. As for the anxiety, I’m looking for comments regarding Xanax, Valium, and/or beta blockers, as well as yoga, biofeedback etc.  I’m type A personality, but never get this adrenaline rush unless it’s time to measure BP, or going on a first date Thanks, flighty-mikey

Response:

You will probably get plenty of "yes" votes for taking Xanax.   I’ve heard that the effect lessens if taken regularly.

You listened to the wrong people. As a rule no *tolerance* occurs with anxiety sufferers, it’s really exceedingly rare. In my opinion, a person with a resting heart rate that hovers in the 50’s ought not to be messing with beta blockers.  

I certainly agree. You may be right, but I don’t think many knowledgible MDs would be unconcerned with a BP of 135/85.

Actually this is well within the normal range, no reason to worry. Philip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, Although I don’t have frequent panic attacks, my heart races in doctor office, and blood pessure soars.  I’ve been on 20 mg/day of an ACE inhibitor, and BP varies from 110/70 in summer to 135/85 in winter as measured by home monitor (cause unknown).  This is an established cycle over past three years. I almost considered asking to reduce the med, since I got some dizziness when standing when BPs were 105/65 every summer. Most problematic, not only do I have this anxiety in MDs office, but my HR will go up, at times, when I strap on my home BP monitor. FWIW, I believe I don’t have the most common form of hypertension, but, rather, anxiety about HAVING high blood pressure, as well as some anxiety when it comes to health issues. I’m thinking it’s time for a beta blocker, and my doc would likely agree. But I’m athletic, and resting heart rate most of the time is 50 BPM.  I’d hate to suffer side effects (ED, loss of ability to do strenuous exercise) to control the fight-or-flight response. Incidentally, my resting heart rate has recently climbed (15 BPM), as it does when I exercise too much and don’t eat enough.  One month of no exercise and more food usually get’s me back to 100%. As for the anxiety, I’m looking for comments regarding Xanax, Valium, and/or beta blockers, as well as yoga, biofeedback etc.  I’m type A personality, but never get this adrenaline rush unless it’s time to measure BP, or going on a first date Thanks, flighty-mikey

Response:

Many physicians are even ill-informed on the full depth and breadth of the subject of benzodiazepines.  When *taken for an indicated condition in the amount prescribed* benzodiazepines RARELY show evidence of tolerance or tachyphylaxis (needing to take more of the drug to get the same result). Over about 30 days, and often less, they DO lose their ability to sedate generally, so are not an especially good choice for sleep medicines in the long term – for most people.  I work with hundreds of MD’s and can absolutely assure you that a blood pressure of 135/85 is something that they would be UTTERLY unconcerned with.  The American Cardiology Association says that ideally one should have the diastolic (bottom number) pressure at 85 or less, so I’d keep an eye on the sodium intake.  IF your pressure were to rise further, particularly the diastolic part, the first thing they’d likely want to do would be to add a mild diuretic to your ace-inhibitor, usually hydrochlorothiazide (HCTZ) As an athlete with a low resting heart rate and a BP like that, you would likely be unremarkable to any cardiologist, and I’ve worked in some pretty fancy shmanzy places where virtually everything was reacted to and treated aggressively.  The point:  don’t worry so much.  If ya can’t stop worrying, get some Xanax or some anxiolytic drug from your doctor – he should be far more interested in that problem than in your enviable pulse and blood pressure.  Kudos to you for exercising, it does keep anxiety from getting totally out of hand for a lot of people. I’ll even go so far as to say that if your physician actually agreed to give you a beta blocker with numbers like that (in that the drug isn’t indicated at all), I’d fire his ass.  It is clinically dangerous to administer any amount of beta blockade to someone with a resting heart rate of 50. Kindest Regards, Gary

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You will probably get plenty of "yes" votes for taking Xanax. I’ve heard that the effect lessens if taken regularly. In my opinion, a person with a resting heart rate that hovers in the 50’s ought not to be messing with beta blockers. You may be right, but I don’t think many knowledgible MDs would be unconcerned with a BP of 135/85. Also, as it appears you are mildly over-concerned about the "numbers" that indicate "good health", be aware that beta blockers can easily cause a rise in serum cholesterol levels. That’s what I’ve heard.  I’ll pass thanks. Exercising too much and not eating enough do not sound like difficult I have no one to blame but myself.  Funny how all of my sedentary friends and relatives all feel dandy 24/7.  My New Years resolution on Nov 1: exercise less eat more work less vacation more…. Thanks for the input. Mike Hi, Although I don’t have frequent panic attacks, my heart races in doctor office, and blood pessure soars.  I’ve been on 20 mg/day of an ACE inhibitor, and BP varies from 110/70 in summer to 135/85 in winter as measured by home monitor (cause unknown).  This is an established cycle over past three years. I almost considered asking to reduce the med, since I got some dizziness when standing when BPs were 105/65 every summer. Most problematic, not only do I have this anxiety in MDs office, but my HR will go up, at times, when I strap on my home BP monitor. FWIW, I believe I don’t have the most common form of hypertension, but, rather, anxiety about HAVING high blood pressure, as well as some anxiety when it comes to health issues. I’m thinking it’s time for a beta blocker, and my doc would likely agree. But I’m athletic, and resting heart rate most of the time is 50 BPM.  I’d hate to suffer side effects (ED, loss of ability to do strenuous exercise) to control the fight-or-flight response. Incidentally, my resting heart rate has recently climbed (15 BPM), as it does when I exercise too much and don’t eat enough.  One month of no exercise and more food usually get’s me back to 100%. As for the anxiety, I’m looking for comments regarding Xanax, Valium, and/or beta blockers, as well as yoga, biofeedback etc.  I’m type A personality, but never get this adrenaline rush unless it’s time to measure BP, or going on a first date Thanks, flighty-mikey

Response:

You will probably get plenty of "yes" votes for taking Xanax.  

I’ve heard that the effect lessens if taken regularly. In my opinion, a person with a resting heart rate that hovers in the 50’s ought not to be messing with beta blockers.  

You may be right, but I don’t think many knowledgible MDs would be unconcerned with a BP of 135/85. Also, as it appears you are mildly over-concerned about the "numbers" that indicate "good health", be aware that beta blockers can easily cause a rise in serum cholesterol levels.

That’s what I’ve heard.  I’ll pass thanks. Exercising too much and not eating enough do not sound like difficult

I have no one to blame but myself.  Funny how all of my sedentary friends and relatives all feel dandy 24/7.  My New Years resolution on Nov 1: exercise less eat more work less vacation more…. Thanks for the input. Mike – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, Although I don’t have frequent panic attacks, my heart races in doctor office, and blood pessure soars.  I’ve been on 20 mg/day of an ACE inhibitor, and BP varies from 110/70 in summer to 135/85 in winter as measured by home monitor (cause unknown).  This is an established cycle over past three years. I almost considered asking to reduce the med, since I got some dizziness when standing when BPs were 105/65 every summer. Most problematic, not only do I have this anxiety in MDs office, but my HR will go up, at times, when I strap on my home BP monitor. FWIW, I believe I don’t have the most common form of hypertension, but, rather, anxiety about HAVING high blood pressure, as well as some anxiety when it comes to health issues. I’m thinking it’s time for a beta blocker, and my doc would likely agree. But I’m athletic, and resting heart rate most of the time is 50 BPM.  I’d hate to suffer side effects (ED, loss of ability to do strenuous exercise) to control the fight-or-flight response. Incidentally, my resting heart rate has recently climbed (15 BPM), as it does when I exercise too much and don’t eat enough.  One month of no exercise and more food usually get’s me back to 100%. As for the anxiety, I’m looking for comments regarding Xanax, Valium, and/or beta blockers, as well as yoga, biofeedback etc.  I’m type A personality, but never get this adrenaline rush unless it’s time to measure BP, or going on a first date Thanks, flighty-mikey

Response:

You will probably get plenty of "yes" votes for taking Xanax.

i dunno what the topic is, but xanax ALWAYS gets MY vote.. AYE! Exercising too much and not eating enough do not sound like difficult

not difficult at all.. come live at my house. BADDA BING ! ::tossin backah twinkie:: ~tanya

Response:

Tom I take Xanax and a beta blocker, but I have a pacemaker so the beta blocker is to lower the heart rate when the pacer isn’t doin it’s job…sometimes it fires off to a rate of nearly 200bpm. If you get on a beta blocker, take it at night because it tends to make you tired and feel crappy (due to the lowering of the heart rate). — If you sing a country song backwards, you get your job and your wife back.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, Although I don’t have frequent panic attacks, my heart races in doctor office, and blood pessure soars.  I’ve been on 20 mg/day of an ACE inhibitor, and BP varies from 110/70 in summer to 135/85 in winter as measured by home monitor (cause unknown).  This is an established cycle over past three years. I almost considered asking to reduce the med, since I got some dizziness when standing when BPs were 105/65 every summer. Most problematic, not only do I have this anxiety in MDs office, but my HR will go up, at times, when I strap on my home BP monitor. FWIW, I believe I don’t have the most common form of hypertension, but, rather, anxiety about HAVING high blood pressure, as well as some anxiety when it comes to health issues. I’m thinking it’s time for a beta blocker, and my doc would likely agree. But I’m athletic, and resting heart rate most of the time is 50 BPM.  I’d hate to suffer side effects (ED, loss of ability to do strenuous exercise) to control the fight-or-flight response. Incidentally, my resting heart rate has recently climbed (15 BPM), as it does when I exercise too much and don’t eat enough.  One month of no exercise and more food usually get’s me back to 100%. As for the anxiety, I’m looking for comments regarding Xanax, Valium, and/or beta blockers, as well as yoga, biofeedback etc.  I’m type A personality, but never get this adrenaline rush unless it’s time to measure BP, or going on a first date Thanks, flighty-mikey

Response:

Hi, Although I don’t have frequent panic attacks, my heart races in doctor office, and blood pessure soars.  I’ve been on 20 mg/day of an ACE inhibitor, and BP varies from 110/70 in summer to 135/85 in winter as measured by home monitor (cause unknown).  This is an established cycle over past three years. I almost considered asking to reduce the med, since I got some dizziness when standing when BPs were 105/65 every summer. Most problematic, not only do I have this anxiety in MDs office, but my HR will go up, at times, when I strap on my home BP monitor. FWIW, I believe I don’t have the most common form of hypertension, but, rather, anxiety about HAVING high blood pressure, as well as some anxiety when it comes to health issues. I’m thinking it’s time for a beta blocker, and my doc would likely agree. But I’m athletic, and resting heart rate most of the time is 50 BPM.  I’d hate to suffer side effects (ED, loss of ability to do strenuous exercise) to control the fight-or-flight response. Incidentally, my resting heart rate has recently climbed (15 BPM), as it does when I exercise too much and don’t eat enough.  One month of no exercise and more food usually get’s me back to 100%. As for the anxiety, I’m looking for comments regarding Xanax, Valium, and/or beta blockers, as well as yoga, biofeedback etc.  I’m type A personality, but never get this adrenaline rush unless it’s time to measure BP, or going on a first date Thanks, flighty-mikey

Response:

You will probably get plenty of "yes" votes for taking Xanax..  In my opinion, a person with a resting heart rate that hovers in the 50’s ought not to be messing with beta blockers.  Also, as it appears you are mildly over-concerned about the "numbers" that indicate "good health", be aware that beta blockers can easily cause a rise in serum cholesterol levels. Exercising too much and not eating enough do not sound like difficult

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, Although I don’t have frequent panic attacks, my heart races in doctor office, and blood pessure soars.  I’ve been on 20 mg/day of an ACE inhibitor, and BP varies from 110/70 in summer to 135/85 in winter as measured by home monitor (cause unknown).  This is an established cycle over past three years. I almost considered asking to reduce the med, since I got some dizziness when standing when BPs were 105/65 every summer. Most problematic, not only do I have this anxiety in MDs office, but my HR will go up, at times, when I strap on my home BP monitor. FWIW, I believe I don’t have the most common form of hypertension, but, rather, anxiety about HAVING high blood pressure, as well as some anxiety when it comes to health issues. I’m thinking it’s time for a beta blocker, and my doc would likely agree. But I’m athletic, and resting heart rate most of the time is 50 BPM.  I’d hate to suffer side effects (ED, loss of ability to do strenuous exercise) to control the fight-or-flight response. Incidentally, my resting heart rate has recently climbed (15 BPM), as it does when I exercise too much and don’t eat enough.  One month of no exercise and more food usually get’s me back to 100%. As for the anxiety, I’m looking for comments regarding Xanax, Valium, and/or beta blockers, as well as yoga, biofeedback etc.  I’m type A personality, but never get this adrenaline rush unless it’s time to measure BP, or going on a first date Thanks, flighty-mikey

Response:

Question:

Amazing.  We switched from DSL to Cable as our internet provider yesterday. I had only seen one reply to my post via DSL, when I logged on using the cable connection, all the rest appeared. Thank you everybody.  For your words of support, and suggestions and for sharing your Serzone experiences.  I dropped my dose down about three days ago from 400mg a day to 300mg.  I have my mind back!  It’s like the fog lifted and I can think again.  I had exceeded a dose that was good for me. That’s all I can assume.  The first couple of days I needed a prn Ativan along toward evening, but didn’t even need that yesterday.  So, I’m feeling hopeful. Again, thank you all so much.  I’m sorry I didn’t respond sooner, but the messages just weren’t there for me to respond to.  Funky DSL. Debbie

Response:

Debbie: My DR put me on Serzone about a month ago (and took me off of it).  I, too, had memory problems (short-term memory), disorientation and confusion.  It was like walking through a thick fog all the time. I can’t offer you the "hang in there" you need, because Serzone didn’t work with me.  All I can offer is the "wait and see" approach or start the med "roulette."  When Prozac quit working for me after 10 years, I, too, was terrified about starting a new med. My first SSRI was Paxil (I was severly depressed at the time) and all I did was sleep .. not a good thing when I really needed to get out of the house and work.  Prozac worked just dandy for me, then in January, I noticed more and more PAs. I rode the Serzone roller coaster (each time the starter kit upped the dose, I got worse, lots of crying, light-headedness, forgetfulness) until I couldn’t even teach, grade, sleep …  The DR switched my to Zoloft, it’s working OK right now, but I’m still wary. The Zoloft dose increases in two days …. who knows what it will do … Do you have a good doctor?  One who listens?  So far, I have a standing appointment with my DR every 2 weeks to see how the new meds are working (always with the option to get in before the 2 week appt). I don’t think I’ve helped you at all, but I hope my experience …. I don’t know … gives you some idea of a path to follow (not that I have a path … ) Let me know how it goes. schel – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, I’ve been a frequent lurker to your group for over five years.  I’ve gained much understand about my Panic Disorder and wealth of information – for which I am very grateful to all of you. I’ve struggled with my PD for six years.  Fought the beast alone for three years with just PRN Xanax, then three years ago, I began daily medication to combat it.  Serzone 150mg BID.  It literally gave me my life back and the full blown PA’s actually stopped for several years.  Last year we increased my PM dose to 200mg due to increased generalized anxiety.  Three weeks ago, PD returned with a vengeance.  I literally ran sobbing from a dinner theater.  The first major, rock your world PA in almost three years.  I went to the doc because I didn’t recover from this easily.  I was tearful and anxious for several days following.  At my insistence, the dose was increased to 200mg BID.  In addition I have always taken 1mg Ativan at night, with the script written for PRN in addition. It’s been over two weeks now – I just can’t seem to get adjusted to this increase.  I am just exhausted all the time and feel so spaced out and air-headed, not to mention it hasn’t done a thing for my overall anxiety. It is the short term memory loss that really has me bothered.  I have felt this as a nagging concern for well over a year now. That I just couldn’t remember things from one minute to the next.  This med increase just brought it screaming to the front of mind because it is even so much worse right now. I have decided, along with my doc over the phone, to go back to a place where I was successful.  150mg BID with the Ativan at night and PRN. She stresses the need to go ahead and use the Ativan PRN stave off the anxiety. I ramble all of this to begin with, because if feels kind of relieving to share it with others who understand, & to ask:  How serious is this memory loss thing regarding Serzone??  Is it a permanent kind of thing, or just chemically induced when taking the med? The memory issues didn’t get much/any press on the web sites I looked at.  Do you think maybe I just tried to exceed my own therapeutic level when I wanted to increase the med? I would literally be scared to death to try another med.  I think I’m in the running for the poster child for "med phobics" <grin  I just wonder if others have used this long term for PD and if so, encountered any of these sorts of experiences.  I read backward in DejaNews for posts on the subject. I found a good many post about the various reason why others stopped taking it, but not so much from the folks who continued.  I guess I just need a good "hang in there".  I  feel like I’m at the bottom of the world right now. Thank you so much for taking the time to wade through this. Debbie, who remembers better days, and is struggling with the current ones. — Problems are only opportunities in work clothes.                            –Henry Kaiser

Response:

Liz, Thanks so much for the moral boost.  I’m hoping reducing the dose will at least clear up fog I have seemed to be living in.  I’ll have to see what happens with the anxiety piece.  I always try to think positive, so I hope this is the trick.  I appreciate your note, Debbie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Debbie, Welcome, Debbie.  I am so sorry you are having more anxiety and the meds don’t seem to be working right.  I will leave the med questions to the experts, but just wanted to send you strength and hope. Take care, Liz

Response:

struggled with PD for six years. began Serzone 150mg BID. increased PM dose to 200mg due to increased generalized anxiety. three weeks ago, PD returned with a vengeance. dose increased to 200mg BID. take 1mg Ativan at night, PRN. can’t adjust to increase after two weeks on new dose. exhausted all the time, spaced out and air-headed does nothing for overall anxiety short term memory loss has increased back to successful dose of 150mg BID with the Ativan at night and PRN.

IMHO, this was a really good move on your part. I’m glad your pdoc agreed. How serious is this memory loss thing regarding Serzone??

Depends. My Dx is panic disorder w/o depression.  Been on Serzone continuously since Sep 2000. Experienced short term memory loss and inability to focus on details 1 wk after dose went beyond 150mg BID. Is it a permanent kind of thing, or just chemically induced when taking the med?

Went as high as 200mg BID. Almost all background thought processing ceased. Although ruminating/runaway thoughts often triggered symptoms, my mind became TOO quiet. Very disturbing.  Pdoc and I agreed to back-off to 100mg BID which is where I am now. Mind ‘thawed-out’ a day or two later and thought processing returned mostly to normal except for short-term memory ‘brown-out’ periods every so often. Get breakthru symptoms (but no full-blown attacks) about once every two weeks at this dose. Have Xanax PRN, but haven’t had the need in over a month now. The memory issues didn’t get much/any press on the web sites I looked at.  Do you think maybe I just tried to exceed my own therapeutic level when I wanted to increase the med?

IMHO, yes. But ya never know until you try. Start low and move slow is a good rule of thumb. I found a good many post about the various reason why others stopped taking it, but not so much from the folks who continued.  I guess I just need a good "hang in there".

I only have 6mo experience with Serzone, so can’t speak to long term side effects. My pdoc and I have agreed to stop around June/July 2001 and see what happens. However, if you feel like you can function within acceptible limits on your current regimen, my suggestion is to hang in there…  

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, I’ve been a frequent lurker to your group for over five years.  I’ve gained much understand about my Panic Disorder and wealth of information – for which I am very grateful to all of you. I’ve struggled with my PD for six years.  Fought the beast alone for three years with just PRN Xanax, then three years ago, I began daily medication to combat it.  Serzone 150mg BID.  It literally gave me my life back and the full blown PA’s actually stopped for several years.  Last year we increased my PM dose to 200mg due to increased generalized anxiety.  Three weeks ago, PD returned with a vengeance.  I literally ran sobbing from a dinner theater.  The first major, rock your world PA in almost three years.  I went to the doc because I didn’t recover from this easily.  I was tearful and anxious for several days following.  At my insistence, the dose was increased to 200mg BID.  In addition I have always taken 1mg Ativan at night, with the script written for PRN in addition. It’s been over two weeks now – I just can’t seem to get adjusted to this increase.  I am just exhausted all the time and feel so spaced out and air-headed, not to mention it hasn’t done a thing for my overall anxiety. It is the short term memory loss that really has me bothered.  I have felt this as a nagging concern for well over a year now. That I just couldn’t remember things from one minute to the next.  This med increase just brought it screaming to the front of mind because it is even so much worse right now. I have decided, along with my doc over the phone, to go back to a place where I was successful.  150mg BID with the Ativan at night and PRN.  She stresses the need to go ahead and use the Ativan PRN stave off the anxiety. I ramble all of this to begin with, because if feels kind of relieving to share it with others who understand, & to ask:  How serious is this memory loss thing regarding Serzone??  Is it a permanent kind of thing, or just chemically induced when taking the med? The memory issues didn’t get much/any press on the web sites I looked at.

The memory loss is temporary, and will go away when (or if) you stop the Serzone. All psychoactive substances can impair cognition (ability to concentrate) and memory. Do you think maybe I just tried to exceed my own therapeutic level when I wanted to increase the

med? Your body couldn’t tolerate the increase, and it told you so. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I would literally be scared to death to try another med.  I think I’m in the running for the poster child for "med phobics" <grin  I just wonder if others have used this long term for PD and if so, encountered any of these sorts of experiences.  I read backward in DejaNews for posts on the subject. I found a good many post about the various reason why others stopped taking it, but not so much from the folks who continued.  I guess I just need a good "hang in there".  I  feel like I’m at the bottom of the world right now. Thank you so much for taking the time to wade through this. Debbie, who remembers better days, and is struggling with the current ones.

Since an increase in your anxiety level precipitated the increase in Serzone, I think it advisable to treat the anxiety with a benzo, such as Ativan, taken on a regular (not as needed) basis. Chip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Hi Debbie, Welcome, Debbie.  I am so sorry you are having more anxiety and the meds don’t seem to be working right.  I will leave the med questions to the experts, but just wanted to send you strength and hope.   Take care, Liz – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, I’ve been a frequent lurker to your group for over five years.  I’ve gained much understand about my Panic Disorder and wealth of information – for which I am very grateful to all of you. I’ve struggled with my PD for six years.  Fought the beast alone for three years with just PRN Xanax, then three years ago, I began daily medication to combat it.  Serzone 150mg BID.  It literally gave me my life back and the full blown PA’s actually stopped for several years.  Last year we increased my PM dose to 200mg due to increased generalized anxiety.  Three weeks ago, PD returned with a vengeance.  I literally ran sobbing from a dinner theater.  The first major, rock your world PA in almost three years.  I went to the doc because I didn’t recover from this easily.  I was tearful and anxious for several days following.  At my insistence, the dose was increased to 200mg BID.  In addition I have always taken 1mg Ativan at night, with the script written for PRN in addition. It’s been over two weeks now – I just can’t seem to get adjusted to this increase.  I am just exhausted all the time and feel so spaced out and air-headed, not to mention it hasn’t done a thing for my overall anxiety. It is the short term memory loss that really has me bothered.  I have felt this as a nagging concern for well over a year now. That I just couldn’t remember things from one minute to the next.  This med increase just brought it screaming to the front of mind because it is even so much worse right now. I have decided, along with my doc over the phone, to go back to a place where I was successful.  150mg BID with the Ativan at night and PRN.  She stresses the need to go ahead and use the Ativan PRN stave off the anxiety. I ramble all of this to begin with, because if feels kind of relieving to share it with others who understand, & to ask:  How serious is this memory loss thing regarding Serzone??  Is it a permanent kind of thing, or just chemically induced when taking the med? The memory issues didn’t get much/any press on the web sites I looked at.  Do you think maybe I just tried to exceed my own therapeutic level when I wanted to increase the med? I would literally be scared to death to try another med.  I think I’m in the running for the poster child for "med phobics" <grin  I just wonder if others have used this long term for PD and if so, encountered any of these sorts of experiences.  I read backward in DejaNews for posts on the subject. I found a good many post about the various reason why others stopped taking it, but not so much from the folks who continued.  I guess I just need a good "hang in there".  I  feel like I’m at the bottom of the world right now. Thank you so much for taking the time to wade through this. Debbie, who remembers better days, and is struggling with the current ones.

– Problems are only opportunities in work clothes.                            –Henry Kaiser

Response:

Well Debbie I am not a med expert.  I am sorry you are having a rough time right now.  It does feel pretty unfair and makes you angry, doesn’t it, that IT came back!  I have spent a lot of time pondering why IT attacked me for the first time almost a year ago and I have not been the same since.  I can’t tell you about your meds, but I would encourage you to take your doc’s advice about using the Ativan as needed.  Don’t cheat yourself out of the needed calming it can bring you during this rough time. Jeannie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hello, I’ve been a frequent lurker to your group for over five years.  I’ve gained much understand about my Panic Disorder and wealth of information – for which I am very grateful to all of you. I’ve struggled with my PD for six years.  Fought the beast alone for three years with just PRN Xanax, then three years ago, I began daily medication to combat it.  Serzone 150mg BID.  It literally gave me my life back and the full blown PA’s actually stopped for several years.  Last year we increased my PM dose to 200mg due to increased generalized anxiety.  Three weeks ago, PD returned with a vengeance.  I literally ran sobbing from a dinner theater.  The first major, rock your world PA in almost three years.  I went to the doc because I didn’t recover from this easily.  I was tearful and anxious for several days following.  At my insistence, the dose was increased to 200mg BID.  In addition I have always taken 1mg Ativan at night, with the script written for PRN in addition. It’s been over two weeks now – I just can’t seem to get adjusted to this increase.  I am just exhausted all the time and feel so spaced out and air-headed, not to mention it hasn’t done a thing for my overall anxiety. It is the short term memory loss that really has me bothered.  I have felt this as a nagging concern for well over a year now. That I just couldn’t remember things from one minute to the next.  This med increase just brought it screaming to the front of mind because it is even so much worse right now. I have decided, along with my doc over the phone, to go back to a place where I was successful.  150mg BID with the Ativan at night and PRN.  She stresses the need to go ahead and use the Ativan PRN stave off the anxiety. I ramble all of this to begin with, because if feels kind of relieving to share it with others who understand, & to ask:  How serious is this memory loss thing regarding Serzone??  Is it a permanent kind of thing, or just chemically induced when taking the med? The memory issues didn’t get much/any press on the web sites I looked at.  Do you think maybe I just tried to exceed my own therapeutic level when I wanted to increase the med? I would literally be scared to death to try another med.  I think I’m in the running for the poster child for "med phobics" <grin  I just wonder if others have used this long term for PD and if so, encountered any of these sorts of experiences.  I read backward in DejaNews for posts on the subject. I found a good many post about the various reason why others stopped taking it, but not so much from the folks who continued.  I guess I just need a good "hang in there".  I  feel like I’m at the bottom of the world right now. Thank you so much for taking the time to wade through this. Debbie, who remembers better days, and is struggling with the current ones.

Response:

Hello, I’ve been a frequent lurker to your group for over five years.  I’ve gained much understand about my Panic Disorder and wealth of information – for which I am very grateful to all of you. I’ve struggled with my PD for six years.  Fought the beast alone for three years with just PRN Xanax, then three years ago, I began daily medication to combat it.  Serzone 150mg BID.  It literally gave me my life back and the full blown PA’s actually stopped for several years.  Last year we increased my PM dose to 200mg due to increased generalized anxiety.  Three weeks ago, PD returned with a vengeance.  I literally ran sobbing from a dinner theater.  The first major, rock your world PA in almost three years.  I went to the doc because I didn’t recover from this easily.  I was tearful and anxious for several days following.  At my insistence, the dose was increased to 200mg BID.  In addition I have always taken 1mg Ativan at night, with the script written for PRN in addition. It’s been over two weeks now – I just can’t seem to get adjusted to this increase.  I am just exhausted all the time and feel so spaced out and air-headed, not to mention it hasn’t done a thing for my overall anxiety. It is the short term memory loss that really has me bothered.  I have felt this as a nagging concern for well over a year now. That I just couldn’t remember things from one minute to the next.  This med increase just brought it screaming to the front of mind because it is even so much worse right now. I have decided, along with my doc over the phone, to go back to a place where I was successful.  150mg BID with the Ativan at night and PRN.  She stresses the need to go ahead and use the Ativan PRN stave off the anxiety. I ramble all of this to begin with, because if feels kind of relieving to share it with others who understand, & to ask:  How serious is this memory loss thing regarding Serzone??  Is it a permanent kind of thing, or just chemically induced when taking the med? The memory issues didn’t get much/any press on the web sites I looked at.  Do you think maybe I just tried to exceed my own therapeutic level when I wanted to increase the med? I would literally be scared to death to try another med.  I think I’m in the running for the poster child for "med phobics" <grin  I just wonder if others have used this long term for PD and if so, encountered any of these sorts of experiences.  I read backward in DejaNews for posts on the subject. I found a good many post about the various reason why others stopped taking it, but not so much from the folks who continued.  I guess I just need a good "hang in there".  I  feel like I’m at the bottom of the world right now. Thank you so much for taking the time to wade through this. Debbie, who remembers better days, and is struggling with the current ones.

Response:

Question:

Has anyone found that they shake a little after taking there ventolin  inhaler? Janel

Response:

Thanks for your replys. Acctually, I have had asthma since I was two, and now I am 14, but I still get the shakes after using it for 9 years. It just recently though that my heart has started to race once in a while. I find it just annoying, but it scares me too. Anyways, keep on smiling! Janel

Response:

Has anyone found that they shake a little after taking there ventolin   inhaler? Janel

yup, there’s been a discussion going on recently about it….I get the shakes with Proventil, which is also albuterol like Ventolin

Response:

Has anyone found that they shake a little after taking there ventolin inhaler? Janel

Yes, when I first started taking it 8-9 Years ago.  Your system becomes accustomed to it.  Though I do find that if I need to take albuterol nebs that still makes me very shaky.  I wouldn’t be too concerned unless your heart really starts to race.  Then I’d ask the dr. Helen

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I always experience an accelerated hearbeat and feel a little shaky after using my inhaler.  This is normal and you will get used to this side affect.

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Hi Jane, You do indeed shake a bit after taking Ventoline or Bricanyl or anyone of the medecines that contains the same particles. You can also become tired and lightheaded, this is all part of the deal! Brit – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Has anyone found that they shake a little after taking there ventolin  inhaler? Janel

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Yes–all the time!  And, I have a racing heart

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I have the same thing with the shaking…I went to a neurologist and she said it was called a "benign hand tremor" or "essential tremor" anyway, it does have something to do with diabetes. I had another doctor say it was a type of nerve damage in my hands…there are medicines for it! Good luck!

Response:

Hi, I was wondering if shaking really bad has anything to do with diabetes? I have been shaking really bad for the last three days. It has been hard to type without redoing it because my hands are always shaking. It is like a person who is really nervous would shake all over. I check my BG but it is usually really good around 120 sometimes just a little higher. Does anyone else do this? Thanks for any input. Diana — People Ask Me Why I Love God? Because He First Loved Me

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Diana,    Any new symptom that interferes with your life should be discussed with your doctor.  It could be something simple, like fatigue, stress, too much coffee.   It could be your glucose levels dropped very quickly.   It could also be drug-induced.  Are you taking any new meds for your MPS?   I met a woman a few months who had a very strong tremor in her hands from an anti-depressant.     Shaking can also be a symptom of any number of other things that can be identified or ruled out by your physician.  Have it checked – much better than to keep guessing and worrying.    Yes, I’ve had that happen.  Back in the old days, before I was diabetic, I went through the shakes almost every day,  because I was so busy taking care of the babies,  I forgot to feed me!!   Now, it’s the CFIDS telling me I way overdid.  I wish it would tell me before it was too late!!!  Take care of yourself.  We care.. melodymom AKA Denise – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I was wondering if shaking really bad has anything to do with diabetes? I have been shaking really bad for the last three days. It has been hard to type without redoing it because my hands are always shaking. It is like a person who is really nervous would shake all over. I check my BG but it is usually really good around 120 sometimes just a little higher. Does anyone else do this? Thanks for any input. Diana — People Ask Me Why I Love God? Because He First Loved Me

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Diana I dont know if you are continually shaking or perhaps you are not eating your meals at the right times. Whatever, three days of shaking should be told to your doctor and let him tell you what it is.  Do you feel nervous about anything.  Call your doctor because no matter what anyone says here, we cannot diagose what is wrong and even if we have shakes, which in the rare instancesI I dont eat,I can get the shakes,  it does not mean you have the same condition. Please call the doctor. Loretta

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p.s.   I hope you are better at taking my excellent advice than I am.          Also, I love your signature thingy. Hugs, me melodymom wrote – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Diana,   Any new symptom that interferes with your life should be discussed with your doctor.  It could be something simple, like fatigue, stress, too melodymom AKA Denise People Ask Me Why I Love God? Because He First Loved Me

Response:

Hi Rene Tiger Lily was telling me it could be my antidepressant that I was put on a month ago. I didn’t start shaking until recently and it is annoying because I feel like I am going to shake out of my body. I am on Zoloft for depression and it may not be the right one for me. I am going to let my doctor know. Caffeine has never been a problem for me so I don’t think it would be that. I don’t drink coffee except on rare occasions. The shaking does wake me up too. I too have the awful nausea that is so overwhelming I can hardly stand it. I can’t even take my meds when I first need to because I know they wouldn’t stay put. I didn’t start that until right before my diagnosis. My doctor has been told of the severe nausea but she doesn’t address it. I wish she would though because it double me over every day. I do it first thing in the morning and again later in the day. If you are on an antidepressant I would ask the doctor if maybe you need a different one. My BGs have been good except the past few days I have been depressed more than usual and that is when I eat the most. But I have to stop this stuff. I can’t go on abusing my health like this. I am a mood eater and it is so hard when I am mad or depressed not to eat. I don’t eat out of boredom or anything so it isn’t that either. If you too find out finally about the shaking let me know too OK? Thanks Diana — People Ask Me Why I Love God? Because He First Loved Me – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Diana, I am a 32 yr old type 1 for 10yr diabetic. I started having problems at the beginning of this year with a nauseated stomach.  I got real worried and have had trouble getting better. I notice that I experience a nervous shaking sort of like when you have way too much caffine.  It seems to get me even with normal blood sugars.  I wake up alot at about 5 in the morning and feel this way and have a hard time getting to sleep.  If you figure out what is wrong please let me know.  My doctor is still trying to figure out what is wrong. your not alone Rene Garza p.s. :  please respond Hi, I was wondering if shaking really bad has anything to do with diabetes? I have been shaking really bad for the last three days. It has been hard to type without redoing it because my hands are always shaking. It is like a person who is really nervous would shake all over. I check my BG but it is usually really good around 120 sometimes just a little higher. Does anyone else do this? Thanks for any input. Diana — People Ask Me Why I Love God? Because He First Loved Me

Response:

Hi, I was wondering if shaking really bad has anything to do with diabetes?

For me, when my bgs are TOO low I feel shakey, but I can’t see shakey unless I’m under about 85. I don’t remember how your bgs were running last month but maybe you’ve come down so much your body is adjusting. Caffeine can make you shaky if you’re taking asperin or something like that. Is it all over or just in your hands?  If it wasn’t Saturday night, I’d suggest its worth a call to your doctors office. I’m not sure its an emergency. Does your doctor or hospital have a 24 hour nurse on duty for these type of questions? Carol  I – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – have been shaking really bad for the last three days. It has been hard to type without redoing it because my hands are always shaking. It is like a person who is really nervous would shake all over. I check my BG but it is usually really good around 120 sometimes just a little higher. Does anyone else do this? Thanks for any input. Diana — People Ask Me Why I Love God? Because He First Loved Me

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I’m on Pentasa and Imuran and taking Propanolol for the shaking.  It’s generally gotten worse over the years and so has slurred speach and just in general problems that are similar.  I’ve seen a neurologist and they have no clue.  I’m seeing a new doctor as I’ve moved and think he may turn something up.  My blood pressure is fine but sugar intake may be an idea of something to look into.  I am a sugar junky though.  I tend to have to eat something in the morning or vomit (bile I think, its yellow, tastes horrible).  Really thats all thats wrong as I have been in fairly good health other than fatigue (thank god for red bull).  Thanks for the ideas everyone! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I get the same way. Not to often but one time I passed out. Man that was the worse headache I have ever had. When I worked I would carry peanut butter crackers in the car for the ride home. I worked 50 miles from home, and I would eat the crackers in traffic, and I would be alright. If I forgot, I would get the shakes so bad I would puke out my car door at times. It is not fun when your body is not happy with you. It’s hypoglycemia.  I used to pass out, too, until I changed my eating habits.  Cut down on the sweets and alcohol, especially on an empty stomach.  Eat protein and healthy fats instead.  If you must eat sweets make sure there is some fat in the mix, it slows down the blood sugar rise and then the falloff afterwards.  It’s the falloff afterwards that makes you pass out.  I had to give up alcohol altogether.

Response:

Well soon the 16 a day Pentasa go away! Yeah! LOL so hopeful that will cut my count down some.  Right now I am not taking a few of them, with my drs knowledge, until we get to the bottom of this.  He doesn’t want to stop the Pentasa until after we do the last of the tests an decide what meds is the best for me at this time.  The Pentasa isn’t stopping the bleeding and so forth but it could be helping the bleeding not get to excessive for such a short time I need to be on it.  So, can’t see where this will hurt.   I just want to get on to the plan already!   I did catch the bleeding early which is good.  He now really believes I know my body and what is norm and abnormal most of the time.  But he is just being real cautious and  I like this part of it.  This way he will know exactly where the problem is and what would be best to start me with to try to get control of everything.  UM MOM Susan – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ok, ok, i give up….lol.  you eat meds for meals…i am close, between meds and vitamins, i am usually too full to eat breakfast in the mornings….lol. jeffy I take more than you Jeff.  I call walking the tic tac syndrome!  UM MOM Susan no, that is why i rattle when i walk. jeff With that many meds is there any room for the blood???;-)))) Tony i am 10 meds, plus remicade, plus allergy shots. the tacrolimus is doing it, is a known side effect of tacro. jeffy some immunomodulators cause this, i know i have a little, but i doubt that is your issue.  tacrolimus causes shakes as well as cyclosplorine. jeffy Another question, I have over the years been suffering from shaking and tremors (like Parkisons) and my doctors are unsure if this is related to the crohns/colitis or anotehr problem.  Anyone else have this issue.  Its been getting worse over time and I have been prednisone free for well over 3 years. I get the shakes but put it down to high doses of pred. Should not bother you after 3 years.  What other meds u on? Tony — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. So check it anyway!! No attachments unless advised in body of email. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). 10/03/2003 — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. So check it anyway!! No attachments unless advised in body of email. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

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ok, ok, i give up….lol.  you eat meds for meals…i am close, between meds and vitamins, i am usually too full to eat breakfast in the mornings….lol. jeffy

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I take more than you Jeff.  I call walking the tic tac syndrome!  UM MOM Susan no, that is why i rattle when i walk. jeff With that many meds is there any room for the blood???;-)))) Tony i am 10 meds, plus remicade, plus allergy shots. the tacrolimus is doing it, is a known side effect of tacro. jeffy some immunomodulators cause this, i know i have a little, but i doubt that is your issue.  tacrolimus causes shakes as well as cyclosplorine. jeffy Another question, I have over the years been suffering from shaking and tremors (like Parkisons) and my doctors are unsure if this is related to the crohns/colitis or anotehr problem.  Anyone else have this issue.  Its been getting worse over time and I have been prednisone free for well over 3 years. I get the shakes but put it down to high doses of pred. Should not bother you after 3 years.  What other meds u on? Tony — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. So check it anyway!! No attachments unless advised in body of email. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. So check it anyway!! No attachments unless advised in body of email. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

I take more than you Jeff.  I call walking the tic tac syndrome!  UM MOM Susan – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – no, that is why i rattle when i walk. jeff With that many meds is there any room for the blood???;-)))) Tony i am 10 meds, plus remicade, plus allergy shots. the tacrolimus is doing it, is a known side effect of tacro. jeffy some immunomodulators cause this, i know i have a little, but i doubt that is your issue.  tacrolimus causes shakes as well as cyclosplorine. jeffy Another question, I have over the years been suffering from shaking and tremors (like Parkisons) and my doctors are unsure if this is related to the crohns/colitis or anotehr problem.  Anyone else have this issue.  Its been getting worse over time and I have been prednisone free for well over 3 years. I get the shakes but put it down to high doses of pred. Should not bother you after 3 years.  What other meds u on? Tony — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. So check it anyway!! No attachments unless advised in body of email. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. So check it anyway!! No attachments unless advised in body of email. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

no, that is why i rattle when i walk. jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – With that many meds is there any room for the blood???;-)))) Tony i am 10 meds, plus remicade, plus allergy shots. the tacrolimus is doing it, is a known side effect of tacro. jeffy some immunomodulators cause this, i know i have a little, but i doubt that is your issue.  tacrolimus causes shakes as well as cyclosplorine. jeffy Another question, I have over the years been suffering from shaking and tremors (like Parkisons) and my doctors are unsure if this is related to the crohns/colitis or anotehr problem.  Anyone else have this issue.  Its been getting worse over time and I have been prednisone free for well over 3 years. I get the shakes but put it down to high doses of pred. Should not bother you after 3 years.  What other meds u on? Tony — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. So check it anyway!! No attachments unless advised in body of email. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. So check it anyway!! No attachments unless advised in body of email. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

With that many meds is there any room for the blood???;-)))) Tony – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i am 10 meds, plus remicade, plus allergy shots. the tacrolimus is doing it, is a known side effect of tacro. jeffy some immunomodulators cause this, i know i have a little, but i doubt that is your issue.  tacrolimus causes shakes as well as cyclosplorine. jeffy Another question, I have over the years been suffering from shaking and tremors (like Parkisons) and my doctors are unsure if this is related to the crohns/colitis or anotehr problem.  Anyone else have this issue.  Its been getting worse over time and I have been prednisone free for well over 3 years. I get the shakes but put it down to high doses of pred. Should not bother you after 3 years.  What other meds u on? Tony — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. So check it anyway!! No attachments unless advised in body of email. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

— Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. So check it anyway!! No attachments unless advised in body of email. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

This is interesting. I have CD. I also have low blood sugar and low blood pressure. I don’t know how they fit togather, if indeed they do. If I don’t eat properly I get lightheaded and then get the shakes soon after. I usually have a chocolate bar within reach, just in case.

I had low blood pressure too, until the pred did its thing… Tony — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. So check it anyway!! No attachments unless advised in body of email. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

I get the same way. Not to often but one time I passed out. Man that was the worse headache I have ever had. When I worked I would carry peanut butter crackers in the car for the ride home. I worked 50 miles from home, and I would eat the crackers in traffic, and I would be alright. If I forgot, I would get the shakes so bad I would puke out my car door at times. It is not fun when your body is not happy with you.

It’s hypoglycemia.  I used to pass out, too, until I changed my eating habits.  Cut down on the sweets and alcohol, especially on an empty stomach.  Eat protein and healthy fats instead.  If you must eat sweets make sure there is some fat in the mix, it slows down the blood sugar rise and then the falloff afterwards.  It’s the falloff afterwards that makes you pass out.  I had to give up alcohol altogether. — Clark Zahn Registered linux user 267087

Response:

This is interesting. I have CD. I also have low blood sugar and low blood pressure. I don’t know how they fit togather, if indeed they do. If I don’t eat properly I get lightheaded and then get the shakes soon after. I usually have a chocolate bar within reach, just in case.

Response:

I get the same way. Not to often but one time I passed out. Man that was the worse headache I have ever had. When I worked I would carry peanut butter crackers in the car for the ride home. I worked 50 miles from home, and I would eat the crackers in traffic, and I would be alright. If I forgot, I would get the shakes so bad I would puke out my car door at times. It is not fun when your body is not happy with you. Allison – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – now that you mention it, I used to shake badly & when I ate the shakes went away.  Ended up I used to carry some sweets around with me all the time & if I started shaking I ate some until I could have a meal. Tony I was having the shakes when I got run down. I started to use sugar as a pick me up. I became hypo-glosumic. I don’t think I spelled that right. The shaking had to do with my sugar levels. I now eat 4 to 5 meals a day and this shaking I was experiencing has gone away. Another question, I have over the years been suffering from shaking and tremors (like Parkisons) and my doctors are unsure if this is related to the crohns/colitis or anotehr problem.  Anyone else have this issue.  Its been getting worse over time and I have been prednisone free for well over 3 years. — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. So check it anyway!! No attachments unless advised in body of email. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

now that you mention it, I used to shake badly & when I ate the shakes went away.  Ended up I used to carry some sweets around with me all the time & if I started shaking I ate some until I could have a meal. Tony

I was having the shakes when I got run down. I started to use sugar as a pick me up. I became hypo-glosumic. I don’t think I spelled that right. The shaking had to do with my sugar levels. I now eat 4 to 5 meals a day and this shaking I was experiencing has gone away. Another question, I have over the years been suffering from shaking and tremors (like Parkisons) and my doctors are unsure if this is related to the crohns/colitis or anotehr problem.  Anyone else have this issue.  Its been getting worse over time and I have been prednisone free for well over 3 years.

— Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. So check it anyway!! No attachments unless advised in body of email. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

i am 10 meds, plus remicade, plus allergy shots. the tacrolimus is doing it, is a known side effect of tacro. jeffy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – some immunomodulators cause this, i know i have a little, but i doubt that is your issue.  tacrolimus causes shakes as well as cyclosplorine. jeffy Another question, I have over the years been suffering from shaking and tremors (like Parkisons) and my doctors are unsure if this is related to the crohns/colitis or anotehr problem.  Anyone else have this issue.  Its been getting worse over time and I have been prednisone free for well over 3 years. I get the shakes but put it down to high doses of pred. Should not bother you after 3 years.  What other meds u on? Tony — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. So check it anyway!! No attachments unless advised in body of email. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

I was having the shakes when I got run down. I started to use sugar as a pick me up. I became hypo-glosumic. I don’t think I spelled that right. The shaking had to do with my sugar levels. I now eat 4 to 5 meals a day and this shaking I was experiencing has gone away.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Another question, I have over the years been suffering from shaking and tremors (like Parkisons) and my doctors are unsure if this is related to the crohns/colitis or anotehr problem.  Anyone else have this issue.  Its been getting worse over time and I have been prednisone free for well over 3 years.

Response:

my hands sometimes shake a tiny little bit. I think it could be related to blood pressure maybe. Sarah

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Another question, I have over the years been suffering from shaking and tremors (like Parkisons) and my doctors are unsure if this is related to the crohns/colitis or anotehr problem.  Anyone else have this issue.  Its been getting worse over time and I have been prednisone free for well over 3 years.

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I can get shakes fairly good aswell. i mainly get it with pain but the odd time i just get shaky. i don’t know why.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Another question, I have over the years been suffering from shaking and tremors (like Parkisons) and my doctors are unsure if this is related to the crohns/colitis or anotehr problem.  Anyone else have this issue.  Its been getting worse over time and I have been prednisone free for well over 3 years.

Response:

some immunomodulators cause this, i know i have a little, but i doubt that is your issue.  tacrolimus causes shakes as well as cyclosplorine. jeffy Another question, I have over the years been suffering from shaking and tremors (like Parkisons) and my doctors are unsure if this is related to the crohns/colitis or anotehr problem.  Anyone else have this issue.  Its been getting worse over time and I have been prednisone free for well over 3 years.

I get the shakes but put it down to high doses of pred. Should not bother you after 3 years.  What other meds u on? Tony — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. So check it anyway!! No attachments unless advised in body of email. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

You need to see a neurologist. Debs – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Another question, I have over the years been suffering from shaking and tremors (like Parkisons) and my doctors are unsure if this is related to the crohns/colitis or anotehr problem.  Anyone else have this issue.  Its been getting worse over time and I have been prednisone free for well over 3 years.

Response:

some immunomodulators cause this, i know i have a little, but i doubt that is your issue.  tacrolimus causes shakes as well as cyclosplorine. jeffy

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Another question, I have over the years been suffering from shaking and tremors (like Parkisons) and my doctors are unsure if this is related to the crohns/colitis or anotehr problem.  Anyone else have this issue.  Its been getting worse over time and I have been prednisone free for well over 3 years.

Response:

Another question, I have over the years been suffering from shaking and tremors (like Parkisons) and my doctors are unsure if this is related to the crohns/colitis or anotehr problem.  Anyone else have this issue.  Its been getting worse over time and I have been prednisone free for well over 3 years.

Response:

Question:

Hi everyone, I have not posted to your group in a very long time. I have lost my support group and need your support in dealing with my GAD and life as a fellow sufferer. I have been suffering from GAD for over 3 yr. now and have been under treatment for about 1 and a half years. It’s been a long strange trip indeed Currently I am taking Prozac and Knoplin (misspelled I know) and am having moderate success. I have tried many alternative medicines and pharmaceuticals in dealing with this disease and am anxious to share with the group and get feedback. Feel free to talk to me about anything or get on my ICQ list my ICQ number is 4058408. I would love to share information. Peace, lunarchld

Response:

. Feel free to talk to me about anything or get on my ICQ list my ICQ number is 4058408. I would love to share information.

Hmmmm, never considered our ICQ numbers…….mine is 1569491….anyone else have ICQ numbers to share?? KC

Response:

Hmmmm, never considered our ICQ numbers…….mine is 1569491….anyone else have ICQ numbers to share?? KC What are ICQ numbers? I am really dumb on this one. Yes I would like to share information anyway I can. Lol no disrespect it’s that you blew me away with this one. Warmest Regards Bonnie

Bonnie…..I’ll send you the ICQ program…..just run it while you are already online with AOL…..ICQ is just another communication form……you can see at a glance who is online, send quick messages like IM’s to people with other servers, and chat with people from other servers so you aren’t confined to AOL chat rooms.  And the sound waves are cute! Anyone wanting the little program to run ICQ, drop me your e-mail address and I’ll send the program.  I THINK it’s free…..I’ve had it about 6 months and it was when I logged on. Just send me your e-mail address and I’ll forward the program to you. KC

Response:

. Feel free to talk to me about anything or get on my ICQ list my ICQ number is 4058408. I would love to share information. Hmmmm, never considered our ICQ numbers…….mine is 1569491….anyone else have ICQ numbers to share?? KC

okay, i’m in my ICQ # is 2714295. Just be sure to put ASAP on your request this is a great idea y’all

Response:

. Feel free to talk to me about anything or get on my ICQ list my ICQ number is 4058408. I would love to share information. Hmmmm, never considered our ICQ numbers…….mine is 1569491….anyone else have ICQ numbers to share?? KC

Yeah Cindy, as a matter of fact, I have it written down, somewhere, uuuhhhmmm, where is it??? Oh yes, here it is: 3206250 I have only one problem: I don’t have a clue what I can do with this Now I only hope you don’t come to visit me at night and do spooky things…… bye, Trudy the netherlands Remove "xx" from address when replying.

Response:

as a matter of fact, I have it written down, somewhere, uuuhhhmmm, where is it??? Oh yes, here it is: 3206250

next time you are online Trudy, find the ICQ program and run it. Then "connect"…….you CHOOSE who you want to chat to, or send instant messages to. for instance……if you are online right now reading this…..you might hear a little voice say……"incoming message"…..then you click on receive, and it could be me sending a message to you while I’m online at the same time! I could also initiate a "chat" mode with you…..where a screen comes up and we can talk back and forth in real time.  As I type my message, the letters come up on your screen!!!  And you can answer immediately too! I’m a computer flunky, and if I can figure it out, ANYONE can.  Jus tmake sure you run your program WHILE YOU ARE ALREADY ONLINE WITH YOUR ISP. I’ll add you to my list Trudy and you’ll get a system message! KC Cindy

Response:

Spike, as others, I appreciate all the effort your putting in for me. Thank You Stephanie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jenwolf may be correct. If you think that is the case do this, off-line; reboot, go to dos, type this: netstat -anc:netstat.txt. press enter, type this: exit press enter, that gets things back to windows. Then look in windows and a file called netstat.txt will be there. (notepad) If you know about ports, check it yourself, if not mail the text to me. With your type of connection you have. I don’t think that is the case, however. Still this little thing is good to know. spike If you believe that someone else is posting to usenet and forging your return e-mail address on their posts, then you too can send a copy of the offending post (with complete headers) to their ISP (and to their NNTP-Posting-Host if they are different).  It is a violation of most ISP’s "acceptable use policy" or "terms of service" to forge someone else’s e-mail address. you might also want to check your machine for trojan horses. . .like netbus or subseven. they could be used to *easily* steal passwords and proceed to post or send email in the name of the person stolen from, *from* that person’s account(s). http://jenwolf.virtualave.net/

Response:

Jenwolf may be correct. If you think that is the case do this, off-line; reboot, go to dos, type this: netstat -anc:netstat.txt.

eh? no no no, you need to do netstat while you are *on* line. that way you can see who is connected to you or, if you’re fast enough who is sending you udp packets. as well as what ports are listening. some trojans listen on a certain port(s), which could be seen with an offline netstat, but i’ve never tried it. the easiest way, for someone who is not really in to the technicalities of networking, is to check the registry. hit the start button, then run, type in "regedit" and go to HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINESOFTWARE<MicrosoftWidowsCurrentVersionRun if there are any files there that end with exe, delete them. this will prevent the blasted thing from starting up every time you reboot. (or just exit the registry, use a virus cleaner to rid your system of them, reboot and check the registry again.) note the name of the file and then search the system for it and delete it. unfortunately there are a lot of rat trojans out there, so this may or may not work for all of them. the *best* way to be rid of the damned things is to lowlevel format the drive, most of the newer bios’ have a utility to do this, but it could be risky for certain hard drives. http://jenwolf.virtualave.net/

Response:

Some of these aliases are suspect as being one and the same person.

Half a dozen people in ASAP can vouch for La Chech. She’s one of the nicest people you’d ever want to meet. Karen – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Some of these aliases are suspect as being one and the same person.

well, let’s clear up one name…i am not the spammer.  i AM guilty of poor taste and displaying a bad temper…but since i used such poor judgement i have no doubt i am picked as a target…..  unfortunately, it took me about 5 tries with my smart buddy spike just to get the spam proof on my acct, and another 3 or 4 to get the sig line working….. the people in this ng (aar) do know me, and I would hope that even in light of my poor judgement a few might stand up to say that i did not do this aweful thing.  at least i hope so…. — If you can judge a wise man by the color of his skin,  then mister you

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -kmaze…@aol.com (Kmaze001) wrote:

In article <4ra1ft$3…@usenetz1.news.prodigy.com, BWHM…@prodigy.com (Kathryn Taubert) writes: I’m not trying to be contentious here, but virtually none of the people with TS that I know well enough to ask have EVER had a problem with bedwetting. And I know a lot of ‘em. That may be so.  Sometimes the bedwetting isn’t with the person who has TS, but somewhere else in the family. Two of my three children have TS;

my

mom has had bouts of eneuresis (albeit infrequently) throughout her

life

(also a history of migraines).  I have myself have experienced none of these (nor do I have TS). Regards, Kim

That makes sense. Bedwetting is not uncommon in the population at large, so it would follow suit that it would be found elsewhere in the family. Like brown eyes in lefties, as mentioned before. KAT

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

  kmaze…@aol.com (Kmaze001) writes:  In article <4ra1ft$3…@usenetz1.news.prodigy.com, BWHM…@prodigy.com  (Kathryn Taubert) writes:  I’m not trying to be contentious here, but virtually none of the people  with TS that I know well enough to ask have EVER had a problem with  bedwetting.  And I know a lot of ‘em.  That may be so.  Sometimes the bedwetting isn’t with the person who has  TS, but somewhere else in the family. Two of my three children have TS; my  mom has had bouts of eneuresis (albeit infrequently) throughout her life  (also a history of migraines).  I have myself have experienced none of  these (nor do I have TS).  Regards,  Kim

I’ve heard of the problems with both encopresis and eneuresis in a couple of children, seemingly related to meds taken for TS.  In a child who already has eneuresis AND attention deficit, I would think Impramine would be a good choice, since it’s used in ADD but was first used for bedwetting. Jeanne

Response:

Sorry, but your neurologist does not know what he is talking about.  These kids have _huge_ problems with both bedwetting and insomnia.  The big purple book mentions insomnia as part of TS, and I don’t recall about the wetting or not.   We used DDAVP for a while–but it is terribly expensive.  It is a nasal spray about, $115 for a 3 week supply, depends on how many squirts you have to give a night.  But it quit working for us after about 2 1/2 months.   We have had better luck with some of the tricyclic antidepressants.   Desipramine and Anafranil both helped with this for us.  My son is on anafranil now and the bedwetting is nearly gone. We are giving Melatonin for sleeping right now.  Garret takes about 2mg at bedtime.  He sleeps pretty well, but still wakes up around 4:00!!!!  On tv I saw something advertised called Melatrex (or something like that).  They said it was a long-acting Melatonin, so it would have a night-long effect.  It sounded _great_ to me, but our health food store is small and doesn’t carry much.  The only thing with Melatonin is it is a bit controversial because the jury is still out on long-term health affects from taking it.  And because it is a nutritional supplement, it is not tested by the FDA.

Response:

There are 2 things that you might look into: 1.  Dr. David Cummings wrote a book called "Tourette Syndrome and Human Behavior" .   In this book, he mentions bed wetting as part of the

overall

big picture with people with TS bedwetting or relatives within the

family

tree having this problem.

Comings is wrong here. There is no data to support this assertion. Bed wetting is COMMON amongst children under stress. And those NOT under any particular stress as well. It usually passes after a time, in the great majority of cases. I don’t know where the H… he gets this stuff. It’s like saying that people who are left-handed have brown eyes somewhere in their family tree. Brown eyes are the most common ones. Of COURSE there will be brown eyes somewhere in the family of a left-handed person. jeezzzzz I have TS. I have a male cousin with un DXed TS. I have a sister with bi- polar and a slew of other things. I have another sister with probably OCD and ADD. Dysthymia runs in my family. And so on. NONE of us ever had a problem with bed wetting. Were it so, believe me, I’d have known about it. KAT in CT

Response:

Sorry, but your neurologist does not know what he is talking about.  

These

kids have _huge_ problems with both bedwetting and insomnia.  The big purple book mentions insomnia as part of TS, and I don’t recall about

the

wetting or not.  

No, again. ‘Us Kids" do NOT necessarily have a problem with bedwetting that is DIRECTLY related to the TS gene or genes. And if by the "big purple book" you mean the DSRM-IV, you won’t see bedwetting listed as a symptom of TS because it ISN"T a symptom of TS. KAT in CT

Response:

Don’t you think this is like so many other parts of TS.  Some people have just TS.  Some people have TS and OCD.  Some people have just OCD.  Some people have TS and bi-polar.  My son has TS, OCD, and Asperger’s.  Some people with TS have bedwetting, and some do not. All the people I know with TS also had bedwetting problems as children. Darcie

Response:

In article <31D547D2.2…@innet.be

, Tamara Foubert <pub00…@innet.be

writes:

The neurologist says there is no connection between TS and bedwetting and that the fact that he is taking Orap is of no influence. He says that stress is the major cause of bedwetting. But since he’s in a LD school, we managed to reduce stress considerably.

I have read and heard from a psychologist very knowledgeable about TS that the two are very much related.  Sleep disorders, bedwetting, and night terrors are all disorders of arousal that are somehow connected to TS.  In fact, when she was taking a history to see if  my two children had TS, one of her first questions was whether there was a history of bedwetting in our family (there was, as it happened).  Good luck; I’d get another opinion if I were you. Regards, Kim

Response:

My 8 year old son with TS and ADD wet his bed every night until last summer.  We got an alarm that clips to his pajama top, and has wires connected to a kind of snap that attached to his underwear.  As soon as he started wetting the alarm would sound.  I would get him up and take him to the bathroom, then together we would change the sheets on his bed.  After about a month, the bedwetting stopped!  It came back again a couple months ago when he was taking Risperdal.  As soon as we stopped the Risperdal, the bedwetting stopped again. I don’t know about whether there is a link between bedwetting and TS/ADD. He hadn’t been diagnosed yet when we consulted the pediatrician about the bedwetting.  The doctor did say bedwetting seems to run in families, and there was a history of it in both my husband’s and my family. Good luck! Mary

Response:

I have read and heard from a psychologist very knowledgeable about TS

that

the two are very much related.  Sleep disorders, bedwetting, and night terrors are all disorders of arousal that are somehow connected to TS.  

In

fact, when she was taking a history to see if  my two children had TS,

one

of her first questions was whether there was a history of bedwetting in our family (there was, as it happened).  Good luck; I’d get another opinion if I were you.

Kim, ask your psychologist where she got this information, that you’d like to see the data. I suspect she’ll dig up the Comings book. I personally would like VERY much to know what hard data she has to support this assertion re: TS and bedwetting. Ask her to provide you, if she will,  with her source of information. I’ll look it up myself. KAT in CT

Response:

All the people I know with TS also had bedwetting problems as children.

Darcie

I’m not trying to be contentious here, but virtually none of the people with TS that I know well enough to ask have EVER had a problem with bedwetting. And I know a lot of ‘em. KAT in CT

Response:

In article <4r627v$1…@usenetz1.news.prodigy.com

, BWHM…@prodigy.com

(Kathryn Taubert) writes:

No, again. ‘Us Kids" do NOT necessarily have a problem with bedwetting that is DIRECTLY related to the TS gene or genes. And if by the "big purple book" you mean the DSRM-IV, you won’t see bedwetting listed as a symptom of TS because it ISN"T a symptom of TS.

Kat, Please look at the original post.  The question posed was *whether* there’s a connection.  It was not whether bedwetting is a symptom of TS or whether bedwetting is *directly* related to the gene.  Maybe the connection is as simple as some folks with TS are under more stress and thus have a higher incidence of enueresis (sp?).  In any case, I have heard about this through a local psychologist who is highly respected for her work with TS.  That doesn’t mean she’s right either, but let’s keep an open mind here.  Other related problems (the so-called disorders of arousal) include migraines, sleepwalking, bruxism, and night terrors. Regards, Kim

Response:

In article <4r8rp6$…@newsbf02.news.aol.com

, kmaze…@aol.com (Kmaze001)

writes: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

I have read and heard from a psychologist very knowledgeable about TS

that

the two are very much related.  Sleep disorders, bedwetting, and night terrors are all disorders of arousal that are somehow connected to TS.

In

fact, when she was taking a history to see if  my two children had TS,

one

of her first questions was whether there was a history of bedwetting in our family (there was, as it happened).  Good luck; I’d get another opinion if I were you. Regards, Kim

The problem is that there is no research that has been done on this subject – just a few docs that have tried to find a connection.  What needs to be done is for a data base to be formed with sleep disorders, bedwetting and TS.  Research studies will then need to be done to substantiate this theory.  There may very well be a relationship, but bed wetting isn’t found in any people with TS that I know.  I do know many people without TS that are perfectly normal in every other way that are bed wetters, and have no history of TS in their families. Sleep disorders, on the other hand, seem to be present in a significant number of people with TS, so bed wetting in that respect, could be a result of a sleep problem.  Melatonin has helped many with TS, and Dr. Roger Freeman has touted it as effective in helping the sleep problems in TS.  This makes sense since melatonin is formed from serotonin, and serotonin has been found to be low in a significant number of people with TS.  It is very interesting that antidepressants are used for bed wetters.  They may help by raising serotonin, or maybe they stimulate the body not to go into a deep sleep.  It is my understanding that melatonin just helps the body fall asleep, and doesn’t effect the deepness of the sleep, so that the person feels refreshed and not groggy upon waking.  Too much melatonin is not good, however, and there is some speculation that it may delay puberty.  My son wears earplugs to bed to screen out noises to aid him in going to sleep. Others have equally ingenious techniques in falling asleep – it is highly individual.   Bonnie Grimaldi  in Columbus, Ohio

Response:

Tamara My son is also 8 and wets his bed, but he does not have insomnia. In fact he sleeps so deeply we have trouble waking him. We had always attributed the wetting to his inability to wake himself in time to get to the batrhroom. The diapers will not help him stop. They will reinforce your expectation that he WILL wet the bed every night. David Grupper David Grupper, Brooklyn, NY

Response:

In article <4ra1ft$3…@usenetz1.news.prodigy.com

, BWHM…@prodigy.com

(Kathryn Taubert) writes:

I’m not trying to be contentious here, but virtually none of the people with TS that I know well enough to ask have EVER had a problem with bedwetting. And I know a lot of ‘em. KAT in CT

 Kat,  I have TS and wet the bed up to the age of 14 although with less frequency as I reached that age. It may not be TS but related to some comorbid disorder. I always was a deep sleeper and I’m sure that had a lot to do with it. Now I wonder (and should have asked the doc) if at 41 my enlarged prostrate has any connection with my bedwetting and my bodies attempts at stopping it by overworking the prostrate.  There is no known history of bedwetting in my family but then again I never asked . There is also no known TS in my family but other movement disorders tend to run in our family. Things like essential tremor and spastic torticollis (part of the Dystonia family of disorders).      Wize

Response:

It has been my experience (re-inforced by research) that bed-wetting of this type is physiological.  The child has virtually no control over the problem.  It seems to me that to take any action that puts the responsibility of control on the child can only lead to fear or rebellion or (worst of all) damaged self-esteem.  My daughter was a bed-wetter, as were many of her relatives in past generations (going quite far back) and all in the same pattern, with the last episodes around age 12.  In my daughter’s case, I tried a homeopathic treatment combined with control of her food allergies.  No more bed-wetting.  My son would go into a frighteningly deep sleep occasionally and lose control of his bowels (still not waking up) and I would clean him, his bed, change both, and sstill he would not really wake up.  Obviously,this is not normal.  I tracked that one down to dairy products, especially late in the day.  He still sleep-walks tho’.  How could these poor sweeties ever be held responsible for controlling these symptoms without damaging their self-image, their self-esteem, their self-confidence, or creating an anxiety pproblem?  Thank God and the companies,for the large and adult size diapers. We did stop needing them, although during my pregnancies, I had flare ups of my bowelproblems and felt a desire to have the diapers around!

Response:

In article <4ra1ft$3…@usenetz1.news.prodigy.com

, BWHM…@prodigy.com

(Kathryn Taubert) writes:

I’m not trying to be contentious here, but virtually none of the people with TS that I know well enough to ask have EVER had a problem with bedwetting. And I know a lot of ‘em.

That may be so.  Sometimes the bedwetting isn’t with the person who has TS, but somewhere else in the family. Two of my three children have TS; my mom has had bouts of eneuresis (albeit infrequently) throughout her life (also a history of migraines).  I have myself have experienced none of these (nor do I have TS). Regards, Kim

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Kat, Please look at the original post.  The question posed was *whether* there’s a connection.  It was not whether bedwetting is a symptom of TS

or

whether bedwetting is *directly* related to the gene.  Maybe the connection is as simple as some folks with TS are under more stress and thus have a higher incidence of enueresis (sp?).  In any case, I have heard about this through a local psychologist who is highly respected

for

her work with TS.  That doesn’t mean she’s right either, but let’s keep

an

open mind here.  Other related problems (the so-called disorders of arousal) include migraines, sleepwalking, bruxism, and night terrors. Regards, Kim

Kim, I did look at the original posts, and it was evident in what I saw there that this "connection" was being, if not engraved in stone, assumed to a disturbing degree. I’ve no doubt the the psychologist who has said this to you is reputable. But even reputable people can be wrong. And without caution, these kinds of posts end up making "fact" which is, at present, no more than speculation on the parts of a relatively few individuals, most of whom have read a book with assertions that have NOT been substantiated by the hard data. The comment on the order of "These kids have lots of problems with bedwetting" is suggestive of a direct connection between TS and bedwetting. And, in my personal experience, that’s NOT the case. Phrases such as "these kids" are a bit misleading. They suggest a commonality that has to do with "their disorders."  And, on line, suggestions have a way of becoming fact without further elucidation, and careful wordsmithing. My mind is, and always has been open. So much so, in fact, that I don’t hold as fact the words of any clinician who suggests something that may be either wrong or misleading, no matter how much I like him/her. KAT in CT

Response:

My son is 8 and is dx’d with ADD and TS. Beside tics, mild ocd and echolalia, he also has severe insomnia and wets his bed every night. The neurologist says there is no connection between TS and bedwetting and that the fact that he is taking Orap is of no influence. He says that stress is the major cause of bedwetting. But since he’s in a LD school, we managed to reduce stress considerably.

Does anyone have experience with the combination of TS, insomnia and bedwetting ? There are 2 things that you might look into: 1.  Dr. David Cummings wrote a book called "Tourette Syndrome and Human Behavior" .   In this book, he mentions bed wetting as part of the overall big picture with people with TS bedwetting or relatives within the family tree having this problem. 2.  Is your neurologist knowledgable about TS?  Have you checked his/her Cirriculum Vitae(professional resume) to see how well versed he/she is on the subject.  There are neurologists out there that will still give a TS patient Haldol because that is the only medication that the neurologist knows to perscribe to someone with TS.  Good luck.   Fred in denver

Response:

My son is 8 and is dx’d with ADD and TS. Beside tics, mild ocd and echolalia, he also has severe insomnia and wets his bed every night. He sometimes stays awake till 2 AM and when he finally falls asleep, he wets his bed and wakes up again ! The neurologist says there is no connection between TS and bedwetting and that the fact that he is taking Orap is of no influence. He says that stress is the major cause of bedwetting. But since he’s in a LD school, we managed to reduce stress considerably. Does anyone have experience with the combination of TS, insomnia and bedwetting ? We tried every possible method, but nothing helps. We are now so desperate that we make him wear diapers again, just to have some sleep. I know that is not recommended, but life is hard enough for him trying to cope with TS… Tamara

Response: