Question:

If I have to take Theo-dur too late at night it keeps me awake.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was wondering if anyone has insomnia from their asthma medications.  I’m taking Flovent 2x a day 2 puffs. AJ

Response:

I was wondering if anyone has insomnia from their asthma medications.  I’m taking Flovent 2x a day 2 puffs. AJ

Response:

I have experienced insomnia and I am on the same amount of Flovent. The doctor says that it would not cause it but I don’t know. I just wanted to let you know that you are not alone. *smile* Shannon

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was wondering if anyone has insomnia from their asthma medications.  I’m taking Flovent 2x a day 2 puffs. AJ

Response:

Hello! Absolutely…I’ve not enjoyed more than 4 hours (undisturbed) sleep since I began taking Flovent and Serevent last year. Patrice – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was wondering if anyone has insomnia from their asthma medications.  I’m taking Flovent 2x a day 2 puffs. AJ

Response:

Is Flovent a newer inhaled steroid?  Is it better than Flunisolide (brand name of Aerobid in US)?  Is it more effective than Aerobid?  I didn’t think inhaled steroids were that notorious for causing sleep problems, but I could be wrong. Is Serevent a Beta Antagonist (sp?)?  That could be very well be your problem.  Albuterol (Salbuterol), a Beta Antagonist, Theophylline, and the older family of bronchodilators (Metaproterenol Sulfate being one) are notorious for causing sleep problems. By the way, I’m curious to find out if anybody is still using Metaproterenol Sulfate (Metaprel) and/or Isoproterenol(Isoprel) as one their main medicines to control their asthma anymore and if so why?   I remember having really bad side effects from Metaprel, but that was once one of the main stay asthma medicines 20 years ago. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello! Absolutely…I’ve not enjoyed more than 4 hours (undisturbed) sleep since I began taking Flovent and Serevent last year. Patrice

Response:

Does anyone have any ideas on trying to get some sleep when you can’t.  I’ve tried everything I can think of.  I don’t know if it’s my meds or what.  I just need sleep.  I’m too hyper to sleep, too sleepy to do a lot of things (hyper-running around house and playing w/ daughter , etc. I will do to some extent when supposed to be asleep).  I’ve ran out of ideas (literally).  please help.  I’m going on 2 hours sleep for the past 2 days combined and I have still 1 more 12 hour night shift left before I am off and need some sleep.

Response:

what are you taking? jen * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

Seroquel balances my sleep/wake schedule, otherwise I decline to a near annihilating dose of barbituates. Gabriel * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

I’ve been taking trazodone at bedtime for a few months, and it’s great. Fall right to sleep and stay that way all night. If you’re taking stimulating ADs like Wellbutrin, don’t take them near bedtime.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone have any ideas on trying to get some sleep when you can’t.  I’ve tried everything I can think of.  I don’t know if it’s my meds or what.  I just need sleep.  I’m too hyper to sleep, too sleepy to do a lot of things (hyper-running around house and playing w/ daughter , etc. I will do to some extent when supposed to be asleep).  I’ve ran out of ideas (literally).  please help.  I’m going on 2 hours sleep for the past 2 days combined and I have still 1 more 12 hour night shift left before I am off and need some sleep.

Response:

Put a fan or something in your room that makes a noise loud enough to drown out small noises. Focus your attention on your breathing…until it becomes regular…as you do let your awareness go to different parts of your body. Any where you find tension…try to relax the muscles in that area, continue to go around your body until you’ve completely relaxed it…and your breathing is deep and regular. If your mind is not still and that is keeping you awake,..try repeating a phrase. The one I use is "I will develope and use my positive potentials thus becomeing a fully actualized and intergrated self." This should work, ..antother thing that works for me is to pretend it’s 100 years in the future and that I’m dead…nothing matters…no thoughts…no tension….just eternity….sometimes that works…even in very tense situations. It’s like surrender. Drink some milk before bed, or take trytophan. Go to bed the same time each night. Don’t drink before bed. Don’t do anything physical for a few hours before bed. That being said, If your getting that little sleep, you might want to get some meds for it. Antihistimines that don’t have a decongestant can help if you don’t have anything else. Try ASH Alternatives to Suicide Homepage http://members.home.net/askash/index.html – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone have any ideas on trying to get some sleep when you can’t.  I’ve tried everything I can think of.  I don’t know if it’s my meds or what.  I just need sleep.  I’m too hyper to sleep, too sleepy to do a lot of things (hyper-running around house and playing w/ daughter , etc. I will do to some extent when supposed to be asleep).  I’ve ran out of ideas (literally).  please help.  I’m going on 2 hours sleep for the past 2 days combined and I have still 1 more 12 hour night shift left before I am off and need some sleep.

Response:

I am currently taking 40 mg of Prozac (20/20 am/pm), 100 mg Luvox (between 5 & 10 pm), and 1 mg of Lorazapan (Ativan) every 4 – 8 hrs.  I have even tried taking my lorazapan, but I go into a light (very light) sleep, more of a rest than anything.  I sleep with a fan on.  I also sleep during the day and work all night. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – what are you taking? jen * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

go to bed with a good book and TRY to stay awake. a lot of us are what a pdoc of mine called contra-suggestible aka bloody-minded. Isabel

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone have any ideas on trying to get some sleep when you can’t.  I’ve tried everything I can think of.  I don’t know if it’s my meds or what.  I just need sleep.  I’m too hyper to sleep, too sleepy to do a lot of things (hyper-running around house and playing w/ daughter , etc. I will do to some extent when supposed to be asleep).  I’ve ran out of ideas (literally).  please help.  I’m going on 2 hours sleep for the past 2 days combined and I have still 1 more 12 hour night shift left before I am off and need some sleep.

Response:

Talk to your doctor about dropping the Prozac and starting on a mood stabilizer. Antidepressants are notorious for triggering mania in a bipolar person. Insomnia as you describe is a classic sign of mania. Also ask about Klonopin – it is a good med to take for bipolar insomnia. Before I was dx’ed I tried all the usual home remedies (warm milk, meditation, OTC sleeping pills) to no effect. My GP put me on Ambien (a prescrip sleeping med) but even at doses high enough to knock out a horse, I still couldn’t sleep. That’s what tipped him off that I might be bipolar. At one point in my treatment I was on nothing but Prozac (had dropped lithium in state of denial/rebellion), and it flipped me into the worst insomnia ever – went 9 days without a wink of sleep at one point. You need your sleep – please seek medical attention. jen * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

I was wondering how many people have noted vision changes as a result of chronic seroquel use.   I was also wondering if seroquel increased the level of your creativity or your sense of being in touch with the afterlife or "grand scheme" of things in whatever sense you consider those things. Thumper – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Put a fan or something in your room that makes a noise loud enough to drown out small noises. Focus your attention on your breathing…until it becomes regular…as you do let your awareness go to different parts of your body. Any where you find tension…try to relax the muscles in that area, continue to go around your body until you’ve completely relaxed it…and your breathing is deep and regular. If your mind is not still and that is keeping you awake,..try repeating a phrase. The one I use is "I will develope and use my positive potentials thus becomeing a fully actualized and intergrated self." This should work, ..antother thing that works for me is to pretend it’s 100 years in the future and that I’m dead…nothing matters…no thoughts…no tension….just eternity….sometimes that works…even in very tense situations. It’s like surrender. Drink some milk before bed, or take trytophan. Go to bed the same time each night. Don’t drink before bed. Don’t do anything physical for a few hours before bed. That being said, If your getting that little sleep, you might want to get some meds for it. Antihistimines that don’t have a decongestant can help if you don’t have anything else. Try ASH Alternatives to Suicide Homepage http://members.home.net/askash/index.html Does anyone have any ideas on trying to get some sleep when you can’t.  I’ve tried everything I can think of.  I don’t know if it’s my meds or what.  I just need sleep.  I’m too hyper to sleep, too sleepy to do a lot of things (hyper-running around house and playing w/ daughter , etc. I will do to some extent when supposed to be asleep).  I’ve ran out of ideas (literally).  please help.  I’m going on 2 hours sleep for the past 2 days combined and I have still 1 more 12 hour night shift left before I am off and need some sleep.

Response:

Hi Tammy- You got some really good responses–so I’ll only add to them. Inositol–a b-vitamin will help–250 mg at bed time Instead of milk, try a carbohydrate.  Dry corn flakes was suggested–I tend to eat macaroons. LOL  it works! Calm’s Forte is available at GNC stores–and it is great–you can take it with any med–it is basically minerals. Isotonic minerals and calcium work wonders for me. Tryptohpan is a script.  So, try 5htp–its precursor and OTC.  But check any possible reactions with your meds.  You should not take 5htp or tryptophan if you are taking SSRIs. That should give you lots of things to try to see what works for you. Trazadone does not keep me asleep.  I take it at bedtime and when I wake up at around 4AM, I take another dose.   And finally, I’m ramping up on Neurontin–but so far it has definately helped me sleep better–but nothing esle yet–too low a dose. HTH, Nancy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Does anyone have any ideas on trying to get some sleep when you can’t.  I’ve tried everything I can think of.  I don’t know if it’s my meds or what.  I just need sleep.  I’m too hyper to sleep, too sleepy to do a lot of things (hyper-running around house and playing w/ daughter , etc. I will do to some extent when supposed to be asleep).  I’ve ran out of ideas (literally).  please help.  I’m going on 2 hours sleep for the past 2 days combined and I have still 1 more 12 hour night shift left before I am off and need some sleep.

Response:

Hi Tammy, Does anyone have any ideas on trying to get some sleep when you can’t.  I’ve tried everything I can think of.  I don’t know if it’s my meds or what.  I just need sleep.  I’m too hyper to sleep, too sleepy to do a lot of things (hyper-running around house and playing w/ daughter , etc. I will do to some extent when supposed to be asleep).  I’ve ran out of ideas (literally).  please help.  I’m going on 2 hours sleep for the past 2 days combined and I have still 1 more 12 hour night shift left before I am off and need some sleep.

What meds are you now taking? Is your doctor away of your lack of sleep? For me, the sleep disorder specialist prescribed Melatonin 3 mg daily.Also, nocaffeine has helped as well. I can empathazie with you as I only was getting 2-3 hours of sleep anight and then had to nap during the daytime. Peace, Lynda

Response:

I was wondering how many people have noted vision changes as a result of chronic seroquel use.  

My doctor says that although the likelyhood is very low, there is a chance seroquel can cause cataracts. She wanted me to have my eyes checked after a month of being on a low dose of it and wrote me a referal to an eye doctor. I haven’t seen any changes in my vision, but if you’re experiencing any, I’d recommend a routine eye exam. Sincerely, Little Girl "Lead paint : Delicious, but deadly."

Response:

Hi Thumper, What sort of vision changes? I don’t know anything about Seroquel, but I have had some weird vision problems coinciding with onset of bipolar symptoms. These are characterized mostly by double vision/blurring. It occurs on and off – i.e., fine for weeks then I’ll get a full week in which I just can’t seem to focus. It is bad enough that I will have trouble reading those big green signs of the freeway. I’ve also had halos and floaters, but not as often. All of this is in one eye only. Had my vision thoroughly checked out, nothing wrong there. Had a cursory neurological exam by my GP, nothing wrong there. Tried going off my lithium for awhile, but still had problems. Was finally told it must be related to my migraines – perhaps a prodomal type thing. But sometimes I’m not so sure…. I wonder if the blurred vision gets so bad, it gives me a headache? Oh well…. thought I’d jump in and whine a little. jen * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

I have found that seroquel has made me more creative, or lucid; whereas other anti-psychotics tend to make me become zombee-like. As for ‘increased spirituality,’ . . . If this is a referance to myself, I wasn’t referring to the anti-psychotics as causing me to become more spiritual, and am not going to divulge my experience here so. . . Gabriel * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

Thank you to everyone who had written back or thought about it.  Received a lot of good feedback.  I did try a lot of them, including calling the Dr.  He has changed my meds around again.  I’m still taking everything, the only 2 exceptions are the I now take the Luvox in the morning before I go to bed and he cut my Prozac in 1/2 and take just 20 mg in the morning as well.  I immediately could see the difference in the fact I became more irritable, still insomniac to a point, still nauseated, and started back smoking again after quitting a couple of months ago.  I eat less now and am loding more weight.  I can handle everything but the irritability.  I am irritable at everyone around me without realizing it until later, then I feel guilty.  I try to not be irritable and apologize.  I don’t like this part of me and no one else does either and tell me.  I don’t like feeling like this at all.  Some times I hate myself because of it, even though I know it will be better.  My family asks me if I took my meds. when they begin to see me cycle through either being real irritable or real hyper.  They keep me in check some seeing my moods change, sometimes quickly.  I will call my doc Monday morning to tell him what is still going on.  I will be taking some copies of the suggestions with me at my next visit.  I’m sorry if I am writing on, I will try not to go this long next time, just had as lot on my mind. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone have any ideas on trying to get some sleep when you can’t.  I’ve tried everything I can think of.  I don’t know if it’s my meds or what.  I just need sleep.  I’m too hyper to sleep, too sleepy to do a lot of things (hyper-running around house and playing w/ daughter , etc. I will do to some extent when supposed to be asleep).  I’ve ran out of ideas (literally).  please help.  I’m going on 2 hours sleep for the past 2 days combined and I have still 1 more 12 hour night shift left before I am off and need some sleep.

Response:

Hi Tammy, – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thank you to everyone who had written back or thought about it.  Received a lot of good feedback.  I did try a lot of them, including calling the Dr.  He has changed my meds around again.  I’m still taking everything, the only 2 exceptions are the I now take the Luvox in the morning before I go to bed and he cut my Prozac in 1/2 and take just 20 mg in the morning as well.  I immediately could see the difference in the fact I became more irritable, still insomniac to a point, still nauseated, and started back smoking again after quitting a couple of months ago.  I eat less now and am loding more weight.  I can handle everything but the irritability.  I am irritable at everyone around me without realizing it until later, then I feel guilty.  I try to not be irritable and apologize.  I don’t like this part of me and no one else does either and tell me.  I don’t like feeling like this at all.  Some times I hate myself because of it, even though I know it will be better.  My family asks me if I took my meds. when they begin to see me cycle through either being real irritable or real hyper.  They keep me in check some seeing my moods change, sometimes quickly.  I will call my doc Monday morning to tell him what is still going on.  I will be taking some copies of the suggestions with me at my next visit.  I’m sorry if I am writing on, I will try not to go this long next time, just had as lot on my mind.

Are you taking a mood stabilizer Tammy? If not then the irritability could be dysphoria triggered by taking an AD without the coverage of a MS. If you are taking a MS then another look at the ADS may be in order as well as perhaps adding an adjunct MS to the med combo. I hope you feel better soon. Please keep us posted. Peace, Lynda

Response:

Funny how you mentioned your family asking you if you have taken your meds. My wife has started the same regular line "have you taken you tablet today" since we both found out I was a manic depreccant sufferer. Interesting point you’ve made there. Opened my eyes. Darrell

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Tammy, Thank you to everyone who had written back or thought about it.  Received a lot of good feedback.  I did try a lot of them, including calling the Dr.  He has changed my meds around again.  I’m still taking everything, the only 2 exceptions are the I now take the Luvox in the morning before I go to bed and he cut my Prozac in 1/2 and take just 20 mg in the morning as well.  I immediately could see the difference in the fact I became more irritable, still insomniac to a point, still nauseated, and started back smoking again after quitting a couple of months ago.  I eat less now and am loding more weight.  I can handle everything but the irritability.  I am irritable at everyone around me without realizing it until later, then I feel guilty.  I try to not be irritable and apologize.  I don’t like this part of me and no one else does either and tell me.  I don’t like feeling like this at all.  Some times I hate myself because of it, even though I know it will be better.  My family asks me if I took my meds. when they begin to see me cycle through either being real irritable or real hyper.  They keep me in check some seeing my moods change, sometimes quickly.  I will call my doc Monday morning to tell him what is still going on.  I will be taking some copies of the suggestions with me at my next visit.  I’m sorry if I am writing on, I will try not to go this long next time, just had as lot on my mind. Are you taking a mood stabilizer Tammy? If not then the irritability could be dysphoria triggered by taking an AD without the coverage of a MS. If you are taking a MS then another look at the ADS may be in order as well as perhaps adding an adjunct MS to the med combo. I hope you feel better soon. Please keep us posted. Peace, Lynda

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi!  I’m looking for help from anyone out there who may have experienced symptoms similiar to mine. I have had a depression followed by a mild manic episode which has possibly caused 8 months of insomnia (ie early morning waking, and very light sleep). I have been told that I probably have manic depression but that the sleeping pattern I have  (ie extended insomnia) is unusual. I’m on trycyclic anti-depressants but they have been no help. Has anyone reading this had the same long-term sleeping problems? I would like to know what helped you! I’m using a friends e-mail at the moment, so , if you have any information for me would you be able to write to- Emma. C. Buninyong VIC  3357 Australia If you cannot rwrite you could reply by e-mail but please put EMMA as the subject. Thankyou! Emma, I haven’t been good and high in about 10 years, but in the past the most usual sign was insomnia, 3-5 days of it usually meant I was well on my way to a full blown episode. Lithium and wellbutrin (and time) have ended this pattern. -Doug    Hang in there, the sleep problems sound all to familiar.  I used klonopin at first but it is addictive, then Desyrl(sp?) which is a modern form of tricyclic that may have a serotonin effect as well and it helped tremendously….it will make some of us light headed and disoriented but it is a good sleep inducer.    I have found that sleep is the main area that changes regardless of whether i am high or low….it is tough.    i did try trcyclics at first and they helped.    we are all different i think, but there is a combination of meds that will kick in for you.    Ad you are not alone by a long shot, bpd, is simiply not publicized alot and when it is only he most extreme cases are mentioned.  those of us living a

‘normal’ Let’s start out setting the record straight.  Bipolar disorder, manic depression, uni-polor clinical depression on a good day or night for that fact, is a major pain in the ass!  The med merry-go-round gets so old; so very old.  I have started to feel like they’re I’m the brass ring everyone reaches for while reading the merry-go-rounds.  Sleep?  Who sleeps?  What is a normal sleep pattern?  Sometimes all I do is sleep 20 – 22 hours per day.  Others I sleep 2-3 hours and am wide awake for several days. I must add I am extremely cranky when going through this.  Will be glad to answer any other questions you may have. The Wild Woman (Claire)

Response:

: Hi! :  I’m looking for help from anyone out there who may have experienced symptoms similiar : to mine. I have had a depression followed by a mild manic episode which has snip : I’m using a friends e-mail at the moment, so , if you have any : information for me would you be able to write to- : Emma. C. : Buninyong : VIC  3357 : Australia Emma, I am in Melbourne. I realise Buninyong isn’t very large but will "Emma C." be sufficient to find you at the P.O. there? I’ve got Bipolar disorder too, I’ve got a very good PsyDr at Royal Melbourne Hospital who my GP ("Dr Feelgood" from the radio show Pillowtalk – yep, shes a real GP!) referred me to. I’ll email an innocuous reply to your friend with subject line "emma" as instructed, look forward to hearing from you? — Graham. B’Doing!

Response:

Sleep management has been number one in stabilizing my whole cycle. I targeted sleep as a major issue to get under control with meds. Ativan has consistently performed for me in this area. Some persons note a hangover with this med. I blooming well welcomed this, as reaching for a coffee in the morning had meaning again. It works for me in combination with Tegretol challenges as required

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi!  I’m looking for help from anyone out there who may have experienced symptoms similiar to mine. I have had a depression followed by a mild manic episode which has possibly caused 8 months of insomnia (ie early morning waking, and very light sleep). I have been told that I probably have manic depression but that the sleeping pattern I have  (ie extended insomnia) is unusual. I’m on trycyclic anti-depressants but they have been no help. Has anyone reading this had the same long-term sleeping problems? I would like to know what helped you! I’m using a friends e-mail at the moment, so , if you have any information for me would you be able to write to- Emma. C. Buninyong VIC  3357 Australia If you cannot rwrite you could reply by e-mail but please put EMMA as the subject. Thankyou! Emma, I haven’t been good and high in about 10 years, but in the past the most usual sign was insomnia, 3-5 days of it usually meant I was well on my way to a full blown episode. Lithium and wellbutrin (and time) have ended this pattern. -Doug

        Hang in there, the sleep problems sound all to familiar.  I used klonopin at first but it is addictive, then Desyrl(sp?) which is a modern form of tricyclic that may have a serotonin effect as well and it helped tremendously….it will make some of us light headed and disoriented but it is a good sleep inducer.         I have found that sleep is the main area that changes regardless of whether i am high or low….it is tough.         i did try trcyclics at first and they helped.         we are all different i think, but there is a combination of meds that will kick in for you.         Ad you are not alone by a long shot, bpd, is simiply not publicized alot and when it is only he most extreme cases are mentioned.  those of us living a ‘normal’ life with it are just a silent group i guess, busy dealing with it. regards Ernie ising

Response:

Hi!   I’m looking for help from anyone out there who may have experienced symptoms similiar to mine. I have had a depression followed by a mild manic episode which has possibly caused 8 months of insomnia (ie early morning waking,  and very light sleep). I have been told that I probably have manic depression but that the sleeping pattern I have  (ie extended insomnia) is unusual. I’m on trycyclic anti-depressants but they have been no help. Has anyone reading this had the same long-term sleeping problems? I would like to know what helped you! I’m using a friends e-mail at the moment, so , if you have any information for me would you be able to write to- Emma. C. Buninyong VIC  3357 Australia If you cannot rwrite you could reply by e-mail but please put EMMA as the subject. Thankyou!

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi!  I’m looking for help from anyone out there who may have experienced symptoms similiar to mine. I have had a depression followed by a mild manic episode which has possibly caused 8 months of insomnia (ie early morning waking, and very light sleep). I have been told that I probably have manic depression but that the sleeping pattern I have  (ie extended insomnia) is unusual. I’m on trycyclic anti-depressants but they have been no help. Has anyone reading this had the same long-term sleeping problems? I would like to know what helped you! I’m using a friends e-mail at the moment, so , if you have any information for me would you be able to write to- Emma. C. Buninyong VIC  3357 Australia If you cannot rwrite you could reply by e-mail but please put EMMA as the subject. Thankyou!

Emma, I haven’t been good and high in about 10 years, but in the past the most usual sign was insomnia, 3-5 days of it usually meant I was well on my way to a full blown episode. Lithium and wellbutrin (and time) have ended this pattern. -Doug

Response:

I have had insomnia for as long as I can remember.  I have taken trazadone, klonipin, ativan, xanax, restorial, and I usually always get perscribed Ambien because it works.  I am on Depakote, Topamax, Seroquel, and Effexor XR so you think that would make me fall asleep but it doesn’t. Betsy Ach – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – jack and lisa"  I have been annoyed by it for 3 years.  But, I now have a p doc who will give me prescrip. for Clonipin, telling me to only take 1/2 pill when possible, instead of whole one. Last year, I used to lay my head down for half hour at a time, never sleeping all night, finally get dressed at 5:30 AM, go to diner, to keep house quiet for husband, trying to sleep.He has no trouble sleeping, unless I am roaming around. the clonipin can give a side affect or 2, but when I need it, which is usually the case, I take it. GGOODD luck. Dot

Response:

jack and lisa"  I have been annoyed by it for 3 years.  But, I now have a p doc who will give me prescrip. for Clonipin, telling me to only take 1/2 pill when possible, instead of whole one. Last year, I used to lay my head down for half hour at a time, never sleeping all night, finally get dressed at 5:30 AM, go to diner, to keep house quiet for husband, trying to sleep.He has no trouble sleeping, unless I am roaming around. the clonipin can give a side affect or 2, but when I need it, which is usually the case, I take it. GGOODD luck. Dot

Response:

I have suffered from insomnia off and on all my life, well all my life that I can remember, even as a young girl like age 9 and upwords.. Tonight I am having insomnia and I know why..it is called alarm clock anxiety..When I have to wake up to an alarm clock I either can not sleep or I sleep restlessly.. So far I have not been able to fall asleep tonigh..it is almost 5:30am now and my alarm will go off at 11:30am..I have an appt to go to at 1:15pm.. In my early 20’s I was under a lot of stress because of bad relationships with my mother and my boyfriend so my anxiety would last for a week at a time..finally I had to go to the Dr. to get some Xanax..this knocked the shit out of me and I could sleep for days on that stuff.. I take 1mg of Klonopin twice a day but it doesn’t make me tired.. Now when I don’t have to get up to an alarm clock I usually fall asleep by 4:30am and sleep till about 3:30pm..I don’t work right now so that if why I have these crazy hours for sleeping..I am a night owl by nature..               MELISSA

HAPPY NEWYEAR–2000!!

Response:

Melissa,     You sound alot like me, I’m a night owl too. I can remember not being able to sleep as young as 9 or 10 too. I usually try and go to bed before 2am, but not always successful. Getting to sleep isn’t usually that hard but staying asleep is my real problem. Waking up over and over and not being able to fall back asleep is really difficult to cope with. If I know that I’m going to have to get up via alarm clock I have a hard time sleeping too. It is almost unimaginable at the slightest things that can keep my brain awake and unable to drift off. It literally drives me nuts until one night I will finally just crash and sleep all night. Lisa – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have suffered from insomnia off and on all my life, well all my life that I can remember, even as a young girl like age 9 and upwords.. Tonight I am having insomnia and I know why..it is called alarm clock anxiety..When I have to wake up to an alarm clock I either can not sleep or I sleep restlessly.. So far I have not been able to fall asleep tonigh..it is almost 5:30am now and my alarm will go off at 11:30am..I have an appt to go to at 1:15pm.. In my early 20’s I was under a lot of stress because of bad relationships with my mother and my boyfriend so my anxiety would last for a week at a time..finally I had to go to the Dr. to get some Xanax..this knocked the shit out of me and I could sleep for days on that stuff.. I take 1mg of Klonopin twice a day but it doesn’t make me tired.. Now when I don’t have to get up to an alarm clock I usually fall asleep by 4:30am and sleep till about 3:30pm..I don’t work right now so that if why I have these crazy hours for sleeping..I am a night owl by nature..               MELISSA HAPPY NEW YEAR–2000!!

Response:

I have had insomnia almost as long as I can remember back into my childhood. I’m Bipolar II and continue to be VERY annoyed by it. I was wondering how many bipolars out there have this constant insomnia thing too? So raise your hand and speak up! Lisa

Can I ever sympathize with that! My mom tells me that I was prescribed sleeping meds even as a toddler However I find that whatever I get now tends to work for about a week and then loses its effectiveness sharply after that.  My problem is falling asleep — sleeping in the morning wouldn’t be a problem, if it weren’t for that pesky job I have to go to Usually I end up sleeping about 5 hours a night, except when I get totally exhausted. Cheers, TAE

Response:

20 years of insomnia.  Lamactil and trazodone for me did the trick so far. Too soon to tell for sure.  Tried it all before.  Good luck.  Not sleeping and bipolar are a bad mix.   TW – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     I have had insomnia almost as long as I can remember back into my childhood. I’m Bipolar II and continue to be VERY annoyed by it. I was wondering how many bipolars out there have this constant insomnia thing too? So raise your hand and speak up! Lisa

Response:

20 years of insomnia.  Lamactil and trazodone for me did the trick so far. Too soon to tell for sure.  Tried it all before.  Good luck.  Not sleeping and bipolar are a bad mix.   TW

My problem isn’t so much getting to sleep, but getting "good sleep". I usually wake up two or three times a night. Then even when I do sleep, I wake up the next day more tired than when I went to bed. My PDoc has siad it might be anxiety or maybe sleep apnea. My theory is that I am half asleep when I am awake, so I’m half awake when I am asleep.                       Ralph

Response:

Hi Lisa,     I have had insomnia almost as long as I can remember back into my childhood. I’m Bipolar II and continue to be VERY annoyed by it. I was wondering how many bipolars out there have this constant insomnia thing too? So raise your hand and speak up!

I have aninterrupted sleep cycle and was evaluated at the sleep disorders lab at UNC here in Chapel Hill. I was told the following: 1. Go to bed the same time nightty…30 min. leeway here 2. Get up the same time daily even if I didn’t sleep 3. Go outside and saty there for about 3o min, to receive the morning light (which is the strongest) 4. Take 3 mg of Melatonin nightly to reset my circadian Rhythm  which can take weeks to months. 5. Stop taking any sleeping medication 6. NO caffeine 7. NO exercise at night So, perhaps a consultation with a sleep disorders specialist would be a prudent thing to do. I do not recommend that you take any OTC drugs including Melatonin without your doc’s approval. My sleep cycle has been awry for over 10 years but it is improving with the suggestions I was given. Best of luck to you. Peace, Lynda

Response:

Hi Lisa: My hand is up.  I’m also BPII and have had insomnia most of my life.  I take 100 mg. of trazodone at bedtime and it normally keeps me asleep most of the night. Toni – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     I have had insomnia almost as long as I can remember back into my childhood. I’m Bipolar II and continue to be VERY annoyed by it. I was wondering how many bipolars out there have this constant insomnia thing too? So raise your hand and speak up! Lisa

Response:

    I have had insomnia almost as long as I can remember back into my childhood. I’m Bipolar II and continue to be VERY annoyed by it. I was wondering how many bipolars out there have this constant insomnia thing too? So raise your hand and speak up! Lisa

Response:

   I have had insomnia almost as long as I can remember back into my childhood. I’m Bipolar II and continue to be VERY annoyed by it. I was wondering how many bipolars out there have this constant insomnia thing too? So raise your hand and speak up! Lisa

I’ve had insomnia problems all my life, its now under control through medications used to treat my bipolar disorder. I take risperdol, depakote, xanax, and remeron at bed time. Quite a lot of drugs, but my sleep pattern is much improved since I started taking this mix. Hammer on you doctor, tell him that you’ve had these troubles all your life. I complained about it over several appointments over a few months and finally he listened. Web Page at: http://www.robertpo.com

Response:

My 24 year old girlfriend can’t get to sleep and stay asleep.  Often she gets only two hours of sleep a night.  Any suggestions?  Please reply direct to me.  Thanks. Randy

Response:

My 24 year old girlfriend can’t get to sleep and stay asleep.  Often she gets only two hours of sleep a night.  Any suggestions?  Please reply direct to me.  Thanks. Randy

Your girlfriend should try Reishi.  I used to have insomnia but since I started taking Reishi daily over a year ago, I have no more sleeping problem.  Furthermore, I wake up fresh in the morning without relying on an alarm clock and can start working almost immediately. I know over 200 friends who are on Reishi daily.  They report the same experience with Reishi. Dosage is important.  We take 4 capsules of 370 mg each of a 100% pure mycelium extract of Ganoderma Lucidum before going to bed.  The concentration of polysaccharides is over 40%.   500-1,000mg of Vitamin C should also be taken daily (after meals) to help the absorption of Reishi polysaccharides. Good health! Gilbert Ng, Ph.D.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I occasionally have bouts of insomnia and had a couple of questions which may or may not have answers. 1)During a cycle of insomnia which may last several days or longer, why   will I wake up at amost the same time in the wee hours, say 3:45 a.m. every time? This is regardless of what time I went to bed, or got up the previous morning, whether I fell immediately asleep or not, what I did during the day, etc. 2)Why, when I wake up suddenly in the middle of the night will I be unable to return to sleep until perhaps 20 or 30 minutes before I have to get up, after laying awake for perhaps two hours or more?  Many people told me they have had the same experience.  When I do fall asleep in that short time before having to rise, it always seem to be a very deep sleep and when the alarm goes off, I usually feel even more exhausted than when I was lying awake trying to falling asleep. 3)Finally, are there any known natural remedies for insomnia?  I have never taken anything like Sominex or other over the counter (or prescription drugs) for insomnia?  I was once told these drugs don’t really cause you to sleep, but rather put you in a "drugged state" and rather than asleep you are rather more unconscious, and what you get is not really as restful and healthful as "real sleep." Thanks. Deborah

I recently started taking a product made by Twin Labs called GABA Plus to see if it would help with insomnia.  Each capsule contains 100 mg. GABA, 600 mg. inositol, and 200 mg. niacinamide.  I take 4-5 capsules at bedtime.  I have been sleeping much better and in deeper stages of sleep.  I have tried many natural products that are supposed to help sleep, but this seems to have helped me the most.   Hope you find benefit also.   Also, I have read that if one wakes up at 3:00 in the morning, it may indicate a lack of calcium and magnesium.  Try taking some before bed. Another thing I think is helping me is to engage in aerobic exercise 3-4 times a week (the kind where you get your heart rate in the correct zone for you and keep it there for 15-20 minutes).  Let me know how it goes. I know how frustrating it can be to have insomnia.  I’m with you–natural remedies are the best.–ms

Response:

What you describe are known in homeopathy as modalities. Modalities are the things that make a particular health problem worse or better. As my doctor, Peter Hinderberger said, "Homeopathy lives in the modalities." They’re the most important clue to the selection of the proper remedy. The particular modalities you describe (wakes up at 3 AM, has trouble falling back asleep, and wakes up feeling wretched) are well known modalities of the homeopathic medicine Nux Vomica. While I can’t conclude on the basis of your post that Nux Vomica is the correct medicine for you, you may want to consult a homeopathic book on self-care such as "Everybody’s Guide to Homeopathic Medicine" for the proper use of homeopathic medicines against insomnia. — Bernie Simon          Confucius said, "It is after the coldest weather that

Response:

my aunt is tryiong out a ayurvedic formula commercially available as "Trimax" and she sais it is helping her with uneasy sleep… maybe it’ll help with insomnia… an herb known as valerian puts me right out but i heard it shouldnt be used continually… tryptophan is supposed to be very effective but the us government outlawed it for who-knows-why… it is present in milk… used to be able to find a food supplement for horses that contained 20% tryptophan but now i cant even find that… itxs the war on medicine i guess… GABA is upposed to help with sleep also, i believe you can still get that… …x

Response:

     Finally, are there any known natural remedies for insomnia?   A music teacher of mine from South India used to drink warm milk with saffron and honey before retiring. While I can’t vouch for it as a remedy for insomnia, I must say it certainly is delicious. JB.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I occasionally have bouts of insomnia and had a couple of questions which may or may not have answers. 1)During a cycle of insomnia which may last several days or longer, why   will I wake up at amost the same time in the wee hours, say 3:45 a.m. every time? This is regardless of what time I went to bed, or got up the previous morning, whether I fell immediately asleep or not, what I did during the day, etc. 2)Why, when I wake up suddenly in the middle of the night will I be unable to return to sleep until perhaps 20 or 30 minutes before I have to get up, after laying awake for perhaps two hours or more?  Many people told me they have had the same experience.  When I do fall asleep in that short time before having to rise, it always seem to be a very deep sleep and when the alarm goes off, I usually feel even more exhausted than when I was lying awake trying to falling asleep. 3)Finally, are there any known natural remedies for insomnia?  I have never taken anything like Sominex or other over the counter (or prescription drugs) for insomnia?  I was once told these drugs don’t really cause you to sleep, but rather put you in a "drugged state" and rather than asleep you are rather more unconscious, and what you get is not really as restful and healthful as "real sleep." Thanks. Deborah

There is a homeopathic remedy, Nux Vomica, that fits your symptoms pretty well.  A quote from Boericke’s Materica Medica:         Sleep–*Cannot sleep after 3 a.m. until early towards;         early morning; awakes feeling wretchedly*  Drowsy after         meals, and in early evening.  Dreams full of bustle and         hurry.  *Better after a short sleep,* unless aroused. Your symptoms don’t have to fit this description exactly, and if you fit just the emphasized portions you should definitely try it.  Nux is for people who suffer from mental strain due to overwork and seek relief from stimulants, tobacco, wine, sex, or over-indulging in food. It is the "hangover remedy" and will definitely help when you have a hangover, but you should use it only rarely for this.  I took Nux 200c for sleep problems (prescribed by my doctor), but maybe you should start with 30c and if it helps but the effect isn’t long lasting then try 200c.   BTW you should get a book on homeopathy if you decide to try this and read up on how to use homeopathic remedies safely. Karen Allen

Response:

I occasionally have bouts of insomnia and had a couple of questions which may or may not have answers. 1)During a cycle of insomnia which may last several days or longer, why   will I wake up at amost the same time in the wee hours, say 3:45 a.m. every time? This is regardless of what time I went to bed, or got up the previous morning, whether I fell immediately asleep or not, what I did during the day, etc. 2)Why, when I wake up suddenly in the middle of the night will I be unable to return to sleep until perhaps 20 or 30 minutes before I have to get up, after laying awake for perhaps two hours or more?  Many people told me they have had the same experience.  When I do fall asleep in that short time before having to rise, it always seem to be a very deep sleep and when the alarm goes off, I usually feel even more exhausted than when I was lying awake trying to falling asleep. 3)Finally, are there any known natural remedies for insomnia?  I have never taken anything like Sominex or other over the counter (or prescription drugs) for insomnia?  I was once told these drugs don’t really cause you to sleep, but rather put you in a "drugged state" and rather than asleep you are rather more unconscious, and what you get is not really as restful and healthful as "real sleep." Thanks. Deborah

Response:

Bill try it with hypnosis Guenther – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dear readers: My wife has serious problems with insomnia (she’s also deeply suspicious about the Internet which is why I’m writing.)  She’s tried valerian which gives her headaches and makes her dizzy; she’s tried chamomile which has no effect whatsoever.  Doctors have prescribed Dalmane (addictive), Xanax (addictive and effective only in large doses), Restoril (bad side effects.) I used to have troubles sleeping (I’d wake at 3am and be wide awake for 2 hours) until a friend asked me how much coffee I drank. I said 3 cups…two in the morning and one at 3pm. He told me to completely stop. Well, I love coffee so I decided to just stop at the 2 cups in the morning. The next night I slept clear through the night. Caffiene does really weird things to sleep patterns… Something else that really helps is a hot mug of Ovaltine before bed. The regular cocoa flavor, not the darker chocolate…too much sugar… Also, you ever notice how hard it is to stay awake when you’re tired and you’re trying to watch something like the news on TV? A radio station here used to play the old Suspense shows at 11pm. I’d get into bed and hit the sleep button on the clock radio so I could listen to it and the radio would shut off in an hour. I never made it through a show. Books on tape do the same thing! I hope these suggestions help. Nothing is worse than insomnia. Good Luck Bill

Response:

Alcohol interferes with stage four sleep.  If you are using it for insomnia, you are just compounding the problem. As always, all opinions are purely those of the author, who accepts full responsibility for their ability to upset people. Michael P.Acord, MD

Response:

I have had good experience with Nikken magnetic relaxation products. I was waking up in the night and having a hard time getting back to sleep. After four days with the mattress I now sleep completely through the night and wake up feeling more refreshed and withless stiffness. I would be happy to share this information. Clive Scullion Bodywork Central http://www.bodyworkcentral.com

Response:

Steven, I have known quite a few people to have been helped by certain herbs and supplements.  I have some information if you would like some.  E-mail me your address and I will mail you off some information if you would like.

Response:

Dear readers: My wife has serious problems with insomnia (she’s also deeply

 My recommendation is that she try massage therapy.  This is a great method for helping a person to relax.  There are techniques that can assist with insomnia.  Check your local yellow pages under massage therapy.  A therapist who is a member of the AMTA should be a good one.  Also, you can check out the NCTMB web page for more info on how to select a massage therapist. Sincerely, Ann

Response:

I had the same problem all my life. Then someone recommended this to me & it really worked! Plus it has other benificial qualities, especially for women. Calcium!!!! It’s a natural calming agent. Try taking a supplement of 500mg’s one with breakfast one with dinner (this equals the RDA too). Get a supplement that also contains magnesium as this is needed for the body to absorbe calcium. [The body can only absorbe 500mg's of calcium at a time (hence the morning & nite dose).] It takes about 2 weeks to have effect. It has been bliss!!! If you do a search for calcium on the web, you can confirm these facts. Best. Love, Elizabeth Fiend         ‘;’;';’;';’;';’;';’;';’;';’;';’;';’;';’;';’;';’;';’;';’         ;    slide guitar player in the psycho-thrash band    ;         ; http://philae.sas.upenn.edu/music/rock/morefiends/  ;         ‘                    215-551-1945                     ‘                       ‘;’;';’;';’;';’;';’;';’;';’;';’;';’;';’;';’;';’;';’;';’

: Dear readers: : : My wife has serious problems with insomnia (she’s also deeply : suspicious about the Internet which is why I’m writing.)  She’s tried : valerian which gives her headaches and makes her dizzy; she’s tried : chamomile which has no effect whatsoever.  Doctors have prescribed : Dalmane (addictive), Xanax (addictive and effective only in large : doses), Restoril (bad side effects.)   : : The one remedy which really worked was L-tryptophane which the FDA : took off the market after a contaminated batch from Japan made various : people very sick, and now they refuse to allow it to be reintroduced : to the American market. : : Her symptoms include:  inability to get to sleep until 2-3 a.m.   : Irritability and anxiety if not rested.  Severe sleep : deprivation–which occurs usually without the intervention of one of : the above drugs–causes wild mood swings.  ANy help would be : appreciated. : I had the same problem. All the traditional herbal cures either did : not work or only worked for a short period. L-tryptophan worked on me : but I became a bit worried about taking it after all the adverse : publicity it got a few years ago. All the prescription drugs that I : have tried either stop working after a few weeks or they carry on : working until about half way through the following day. I have tried a : bit of diet "tuning" over the last few months and the best thing I : have found to get a good nights sleep is a generous glass of red wine : just before going to bed. The second best is a double Irish whiskey : with chilled water. So, it’s alcohol for me every night. : Steve : Stephen Wolstenholme: Author of Neural Network Shareware : web:    http://www.tropheus.demon.co.uk

Response:

Dear readers: My wife has serious problems with insomnia (she’s also deeply suspicious about the Internet which is why I’m writing.)  She’s tried valerian which gives her headaches and makes her dizzy; she’s tried chamomile which has no effect whatsoever.  Doctors have prescribed Dalmane (addictive), Xanax (addictive and effective only in large doses), Restoril (bad side effects.)

I used to have troubles sleeping (I’d wake at 3am and be wide awake for 2 hours) until a friend asked me how much coffee I drank. I said 3 cups…two in the morning and one at 3pm. He told me to completely stop. Well, I love coffee so I decided to just stop at the 2 cups in the morning. The next night I slept clear through the night. Caffiene does really weird things to sleep patterns… Something else that really helps is a hot mug of Ovaltine before bed. The regular cocoa flavor, not the darker chocolate…too much sugar… Also, you ever notice how hard it is to stay awake when you’re tired and you’re trying to watch something like the news on TV? A radio station here used to play the old Suspense shows at 11pm. I’d get into bed and hit the sleep button on the clock radio so I could listen to it and the radio would shut off in an hour. I never made it through a show. Books on tape do the same thing! I hope these suggestions help. Nothing is worse than insomnia. Good Luck Bill

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dear readers: My wife has serious problems with insomnia (she’s also deeply suspicious about the Internet which is why I’m writing.)  She’s tried valerian which gives her headaches and makes her dizzy; she’s tried chamomile which has no effect whatsoever.  Doctors have prescribed Dalmane (addictive), Xanax (addictive and effective only in large doses), Restoril (bad side effects.)   The one remedy which really worked was L-tryptophane which the FDA took off the market after a contaminated batch from Japan made various people very sick, and now they refuse to allow it to be reintroduced to the American market. Her symptoms include:  inability to get to sleep until 2-3 a.m.   Irritability and anxiety if not rested.  Severe sleep deprivation–which occurs usually without the intervention of one of the above drugs–causes wild mood swings.  ANy help would be appreciated.

I had the same problem. All the traditional herbal cures either did not work or only worked for a short period. L-tryptophan worked on me but I became a bit worried about taking it after all the adverse publicity it got a few years ago. All the prescription drugs that I have tried either stop working after a few weeks or they carry on working until about half way through the following day. I have tried a bit of diet "tuning" over the last few months and the best thing I have found to get a good nights sleep is a generous glass of red wine just before going to bed. The second best is a double Irish whiskey with chilled water. So, it’s alcohol for me every night. Steve Stephen Wolstenholme: Author of Neural Network Shareware web:    http://www.tropheus.demon.co.uk

Response:

Dear readers: My wife has serious problems with insomnia (she’s also deeply suspicious about the Internet which is why I’m writing.)  She’s tried valerian which gives her headaches and makes her dizzy; she’s tried chamomile which has no effect whatsoever.  Doctors have prescribed Dalmane (addictive), Xanax (addictive and effective only in large doses), Restoril (bad side effects.)   The one remedy which really worked was L-tryptophane which the FDA took off the market after a contaminated batch from Japan made various people very sick, and now they refuse to allow it to be reintroduced to the American market. Her symptoms include:  inability to get to sleep until 2-3 a.m.   Irritability and anxiety if not rested.  Severe sleep deprivation–which occurs usually without the intervention of one of the above drugs–causes wild mood swings.  ANy help would be appreciated.

Response:

AMBIEN is the brand name for zolpidem which is a short acting drug used only for short term relief of insomnia. It is the best drug for sleep inducing for lupus patients and sleep is very important in the treatment of the syndrome. j.mills,dph

Hmmmm… Is that the same as Zopiclon. (Imovane)? If not, this stuff isn’t available in Norway… — Best regards,                 Visit my homepage: Med vennlig hilsen,          <URL:http://home.newmedia.no/flaker/ _Aase Marit_ ))))))

Response:

Could you please tell me what the active ingredient in Ambien is? (Had to dig through claim forms…)  Sorry; my receipt just calls it "ambien".  My MD said it was new (this was Fall of ‘95) and the "base

How did Ambien get started in the Arthritis newsgroup? Just wondering… I work for the R&D department of the company that makes it… For more info, you may wish to check out www.searlehealthnet.com. I’m not sure what the active ingredient is (I’m a graphic artist) but I’m sure you can find out through the web site.

Response:

How did Ambien get started in the Arthritis newsgroup? Just wondering… I

How did a graphic artist come to join an RA newsgroup? (G) work for the R&D department of the company that makes it… For more info, you may wish to check out www.searlehealthnet.com. I’m not sure what the active ingredient is (I’m a graphic artist) but I’m sure you can find out through the web site.

My DR prescribed Ambien for my sleeping problems resulting from my RA in my neck (and other locations). I’ve found that 5mg about 30 min before bedtime works great most of the time. On a few occasions, I’ve need to take another 5mg an hour or so later. The benefits of a rest-filled night of sleep, vis-a-vis my RA, cannot be overstated. I’m just sorry that I refused to take sleeping pills for so long. Jima Adams

Response:

You have to have great insurance to take Ambien around $2 a pill.

Hmmm… more like $.33 each for me.  My receipt says 30 tabs for $9.99 at Fay’s Drugs.  Maybe I have great insurance. Beth

Response:

        Ambien is zolpidem tartrate, a non benozodiazepine (hence not related to valium, ativan etc) hypnotic of the imiazopyridine class. It is an effective sleep inducing agent for some people; I use it in fibromyalgia a lot.  However, some people have no effect or feel quite drugged. Regards, Susan Hoch, M.D. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, Beth! Could you please tell me what the active ingredient in Ambien is? — Best regards,                 Visit my homepage: Med vennlig hilsen,          <URL:http://home.newmedia.no/flaker/ _Aase Marit_ )))))) I hope you can help me.  I’m at my wits end.  I have never been the best sleeper, but now I find I’m up all night – (snip) He says its the lesser of two evils – I suffer more if I don’t sleep, than if I get hooked. Any suggestions?  I hate to add more drugs to the list – You might want to ask your doctor about Ambien.  It is the best sleeping aid I have ever used.   (snip) I don’t know how it would interact with the Tylenol3.  Perhaps if you could sleep you wouldn’t need the Tylenol3? I want to heartily second the Ambien!  I am extremely sensitive to OTC sleep aids (take 1/2 dose and still fuzzy the next day) but I wasn’t getting my deep sleep.  My MD gave me the Ambien and it worked wonders! He told me there is no problem taking it with anything else I am on – which is Tylenol 3, anti-histamine/decongestant, a muscle relaxant, and Daypro (no, not all at once!  Each "as needed"). It truly is a "miracle drug" for me.  MD expressed a little concern about addiction to the Ambien though, and so he is rather stingy on prescribing it and I save it for "special occasions".  But as Laura/Sarah suggested, when I get the sleep I require, I don’t need so much in the line of pain meds. Good luck to you – Beth Floro

Susan Hoch                    

Response:

He told me there is no problem taking it with anything else I am on – which is Tylenol 3, anti-histamine/decongestant, a muscle relaxant, and Daypro (no, not all at once!  Each "as needed").

You have to have great insurance to take Ambien around $2 a pill.   Kathi

Response:

I take felxeril and it also doesn’t make me sleepy so much as it keeps in the deeper stges of sleep so I do not wake up every hour on the hour. Fortunatley, I have not had to take it much lately, but I had no problems with it when I was.  and at the time I was also on prenisone, relafin, and sulfasalizine.  Take Care. Nan – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I hope you can help me.  I’m at my wits end.  I have never been the best sleeper, but now I find I’m up all night – (snip) He says its the lesser of two evils – I suffer more if I don’t sleep, than if I get hooked. Any suggestions?  I hate to add more drugs to the list –

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all, I hope you can help me.  I’m at my wits end.  I have never been the best sleeper, but now I find I’m up all night – I finally doze from about six am to 9:30 or ten and thats it. My rd gave me 30 mgms of seraz (serax), but it only helped if I took 2 at a time.  Which is definately too many.  She gave up and sent me to my family doctor with this one.  He first gave me trypto something that didn’t help at all, and now he gives me immovane, which is only margianlly better, plus its addictive.  He says its the lesser of two evils – I suffer more if I don’t sleep, than if I ge hooked. Any suggestions?  I hate to add more drugs to the list – -methotrexate -cyclosporine -plaquenil tylenol #3 -paxil -immovane I feel like a toxic waste site. I’ve tried a couple of herbal remedies, but no luck at all there.  HELP PLEASE. Thanks, Aline

I tried some guaifenesin for fibromyalgia and low energy,   and found out that it helped me sleep better,   and dream a lot. I don’t take it AT bedtime,   just 400mg 2 or 3 times during the day. The only problem with this is you can’t take any salicylates,  that means no NSAIDS,  no aspirin,  etc. Guaifenesin is an OTC medicine,   $8.49 for 100 from a company on the ‘net. It is not a prescription drug.   — Shari Soza

Response:

Hi, Beth! Could you please tell me what the active ingredient in Ambien is? — Best regards,                 Visit my homepage: Med vennlig hilsen,          <URL:http://home.newmedia.no/flaker/ _Aase Marit_ )))))) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I hope you can help me.  I’m at my wits end.  I have never been the best sleeper, but now I find I’m up all night – (snip) He says its the lesser of two evils – I suffer more if I don’t sleep, than if I get hooked. Any suggestions?  I hate to add more drugs to the list – You might want to ask your doctor about Ambien.  It is the best sleeping aid I have ever used.   (snip) I don’t know how it would interact with the Tylenol3.  Perhaps if you could sleep you wouldn’t need the Tylenol3? I want to heartily second the Ambien!  I am extremely sensitive to OTC sleep aids (take 1/2 dose and still fuzzy the next day) but I wasn’t getting my deep sleep.  My MD gave me the Ambien and it worked wonders! He told me there is no problem taking it with anything else I am on – which is Tylenol 3, anti-histamine/decongestant, a muscle relaxant, and Daypro (no, not all at once!  Each "as needed"). It truly is a "miracle drug" for me.  MD expressed a little concern about addiction to the Ambien though, and so he is rather stingy on prescribing it and I save it for "special occasions".  But as Laura/Sarah suggested, when I get the sleep I require, I don’t need so much in the line of pain meds. Good luck to you – Beth Floro

Response:

Hi all, I hope you can help me.  I’m at my wits end.  I have never been the best sleeper, but now I find I’m up all night – I finally doze from about six am to 9:30 or ten and thats it. My rd gave me 30 mgms of seraz (serax), but it only helped if I took 2 at a time.  Which is definately too many.  She gave up and sent me to my family doctor with this one.  He first gave me trypto something that didn’t help at all, and now he gives me immovane, which is only margianlly better, plus its addictive.  He says its the lesser of two evils – I suffer more if I don’t sleep, than if I ge hooked. Any suggestions?  I hate to add more drugs to the list – -methotrexate -cyclosporine -plaquenil tylenol #3 -paxil -immovane I feel like a toxic waste site. I’ve tried a couple of herbal remedies, but no luck at all there.  HELP PLEASE. Thanks, Aline

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all, I hope you can help me.  I’m at my wits end.  I have never been the best sleeper, but now I find I’m up all night – I finally doze from about six am to 9:30 or ten and thats it. My rd gave me 30 mgms of seraz (serax), but it only helped if I took 2 at a time.  Which is definately too many.  She gave up and sent me to my family doctor with this one.  He first gave me trypto something that didn’t help at all, and now he gives me immovane, which is only margianlly better, plus its addictive.  He says its the lesser of two evils – I suffer more if I don’t sleep, than if I ge hooked. Any suggestions?  I hate to add more drugs to the list – -methotrexate -cyclosporine -plaquenil tylenol #3 -paxil -immovane I feel like a toxic waste site. I’ve tried a couple of herbal remedies, but no luck at all there.  HELP PLEASE. Thanks, Aline

Aline, You might want to ask your doctor about Ambien.  It is the best sleeping aid I have ever used.  I think I may even be approaching a normal sleep schedule–something I’ve never had before–since I am now finding myself getting sleepy around 10 pm and able to nod off at least half the time without any medication at all. I don’t know how it would interact with the Tylenol3.  Perhaps if you could sleep you wouldn’t need the Tylenol3? Good luck getting some shut-eye. Laura

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all, I hope you can help me.  I’m at my wits end.  I have never been the best sleeper, but now I find I’m up all night – Any suggestions?  I hate to add more drugs to the list – -methotrexate -cyclosporine -plaquenil tylenol #3 -paxil -immovane I feel like a toxic waste site. I’ve tried a couple of herbal remedies, but no luck at all there.  HELP PLEASE. Thanks, Aline

Aline- I take or have taken most of the medications you’re on and I can relate to the insomnia problem. I’m wondering if you noticed an increased problem with sleep after starting the Paxil.  I take Zoloft which is chemically related to Paxil and Prozac and even though I take it in the morning it causes sleep problems for me and for a lot of other people. My doctor ordered doxepin to take at bedtime which has helped alot.  My psychiatrist said that taking one of the more sedating tricyclic antidepressants at bedtime can help offset the insomnia of the Zoloft/Paxil/Prozac.(I’ve tried all 3). Unlike sleeping pills, the anti-depressants are not addicting.  Deb

Response:

I hope you can help me.  I’m at my wits end.  I have never been the best sleeper, but now I find I’m up all night – (snip) He says its the lesser of two evils – I suffer more if I don’t sleep, than if I get hooked. Any suggestions?  I hate to add more drugs to the list – You might want to ask your doctor about Ambien.  It is the best sleeping aid I have ever used.   (snip) I don’t know how it would interact with the Tylenol3.  Perhaps if you could sleep you wouldn’t need the Tylenol3?

I want to heartily second the Ambien!  I am extremely sensitive to OTC sleep aids (take 1/2 dose and still fuzzy the next day) but I wasn’t getting my deep sleep.  My MD gave me the Ambien and it worked wonders! He told me there is no problem taking it with anything else I am on – which is Tylenol 3, anti-histamine/decongestant, a muscle relaxant, and Daypro (no, not all at once!  Each "as needed"). It truly is a "miracle drug" for me.  MD expressed a little concern about addiction to the Ambien though, and so he is rather stingy on prescribing it and I save it for "special occasions".  But as Laura/Sarah suggested, when I get the sleep I require, I don’t need so much in the line of pain meds. Good luck to you – Beth Floro

Response:

My 24 year old girlfriend can’t get to sleep and stay asleep.  Often she gets only two hours of sleep a night.  Any suggestions?  Please reply direct to me.  Thanks. Randy

Response:

My 24 year old girlfriend can’t get to sleep and stay asleep.  Often she gets only two hours of sleep a night.  Any suggestions?  Please reply direct to me.  Thanks. Randy

Your girlfriend should try Reishi.  I used to have insomnia but since I started taking Reishi daily over a year ago, I have no more sleeping problem.  Furthermore, I wake up fresh in the morning without relying on an alarm clock and can start working almost immediately. I know over 200 friends who are on Reishi daily.  They report the same experience with Reishi. Dosage is important.  We take 4 capsules of 370 mg each of a 100% pure mycelium extract of Ganoderma Lucidum before going to bed.  The concentration of polysaccharides is over 40%.   500-1,000mg of Vitamin C should also be taken daily (after meals) to help the absorption of Reishi polysaccharides. Good health! Gilbert Ng, Ph.D.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I occasionally have bouts of insomnia and had a couple of questions which may or may not have answers. 1)During a cycle of insomnia which may last several days or longer, why   will I wake up at amost the same time in the wee hours, say 3:45 a.m. every time? This is regardless of what time I went to bed, or got up the previous morning, whether I fell immediately asleep or not, what I did during the day, etc. 2)Why, when I wake up suddenly in the middle of the night will I be unable to return to sleep until perhaps 20 or 30 minutes before I have to get up, after laying awake for perhaps two hours or more?  Many people told me they have had the same experience.  When I do fall asleep in that short time before having to rise, it always seem to be a very deep sleep and when the alarm goes off, I usually feel even more exhausted than when I was lying awake trying to falling asleep. 3)Finally, are there any known natural remedies for insomnia?  I have never taken anything like Sominex or other over the counter (or prescription drugs) for insomnia?  I was once told these drugs don’t really cause you to sleep, but rather put you in a "drugged state" and rather than asleep you are rather more unconscious, and what you get is not really as restful and healthful as "real sleep." Thanks. Deborah

I recently started taking a product made by Twin Labs called GABA Plus to see if it would help with insomnia.  Each capsule contains 100 mg. GABA, 600 mg. inositol, and 200 mg. niacinamide.  I take 4-5 capsules at bedtime.  I have been sleeping much better and in deeper stages of sleep.  I have tried many natural products that are supposed to help sleep, but this seems to have helped me the most.   Hope you find benefit also.   Also, I have read that if one wakes up at 3:00 in the morning, it may indicate a lack of calcium and magnesium.  Try taking some before bed. Another thing I think is helping me is to engage in aerobic exercise 3-4 times a week (the kind where you get your heart rate in the correct zone for you and keep it there for 15-20 minutes).  Let me know how it goes. I know how frustrating it can be to have insomnia.  I’m with you–natural remedies are the best.–ms

Response:

What you describe are known in homeopathy as modalities. Modalities are the things that make a particular health problem worse or better. As my doctor, Peter Hinderberger said, "Homeopathy lives in the modalities." They’re the most important clue to the selection of the proper remedy. The particular modalities you describe (wakes up at 3 AM, has trouble falling back asleep, and wakes up feeling wretched) are well known modalities of the homeopathic medicine Nux Vomica. While I can’t conclude on the basis of your post that Nux Vomica is the correct medicine for you, you may want to consult a homeopathic book on self-care such as "Everybody’s Guide to Homeopathic Medicine" for the proper use of homeopathic medicines against insomnia. — Bernie Simon          Confucius said, "It is after the coldest weather that

Response:

my aunt is tryiong out a ayurvedic formula commercially available as "Trimax" and she sais it is helping her with uneasy sleep… maybe it’ll help with insomnia… an herb known as valerian puts me right out but i heard it shouldnt be used continually… tryptophan is supposed to be very effective but the us government outlawed it for who-knows-why… it is present in milk… used to be able to find a food supplement for horses that contained 20% tryptophan but now i cant even find that… itxs the war on medicine i guess… GABA is upposed to help with sleep also, i believe you can still get that… …x

Response:

     Finally, are there any known natural remedies for insomnia?   A music teacher of mine from South India used to drink warm milk with saffron and honey before retiring. While I can’t vouch for it as a remedy for insomnia, I must say it certainly is delicious. JB.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I occasionally have bouts of insomnia and had a couple of questions which may or may not have answers. 1)During a cycle of insomnia which may last several days or longer, why   will I wake up at amost the same time in the wee hours, say 3:45 a.m. every time? This is regardless of what time I went to bed, or got up the previous morning, whether I fell immediately asleep or not, what I did during the day, etc. 2)Why, when I wake up suddenly in the middle of the night will I be unable to return to sleep until perhaps 20 or 30 minutes before I have to get up, after laying awake for perhaps two hours or more?  Many people told me they have had the same experience.  When I do fall asleep in that short time before having to rise, it always seem to be a very deep sleep and when the alarm goes off, I usually feel even more exhausted than when I was lying awake trying to falling asleep. 3)Finally, are there any known natural remedies for insomnia?  I have never taken anything like Sominex or other over the counter (or prescription drugs) for insomnia?  I was once told these drugs don’t really cause you to sleep, but rather put you in a "drugged state" and rather than asleep you are rather more unconscious, and what you get is not really as restful and healthful as "real sleep." Thanks. Deborah

There is a homeopathic remedy, Nux Vomica, that fits your symptoms pretty well.  A quote from Boericke’s Materica Medica:         Sleep–*Cannot sleep after 3 a.m. until early towards;         early morning; awakes feeling wretchedly*  Drowsy after         meals, and in early evening.  Dreams full of bustle and         hurry.  *Better after a short sleep,* unless aroused. Your symptoms don’t have to fit this description exactly, and if you fit just the emphasized portions you should definitely try it.  Nux is for people who suffer from mental strain due to overwork and seek relief from stimulants, tobacco, wine, sex, or over-indulging in food. It is the "hangover remedy" and will definitely help when you have a hangover, but you should use it only rarely for this.  I took Nux 200c for sleep problems (prescribed by my doctor), but maybe you should start with 30c and if it helps but the effect isn’t long lasting then try 200c.   BTW you should get a book on homeopathy if you decide to try this and read up on how to use homeopathic remedies safely. Karen Allen

Response:

I occasionally have bouts of insomnia and had a couple of questions which may or may not have answers. 1)During a cycle of insomnia which may last several days or longer, why   will I wake up at amost the same time in the wee hours, say 3:45 a.m. every time? This is regardless of what time I went to bed, or got up the previous morning, whether I fell immediately asleep or not, what I did during the day, etc. 2)Why, when I wake up suddenly in the middle of the night will I be unable to return to sleep until perhaps 20 or 30 minutes before I have to get up, after laying awake for perhaps two hours or more?  Many people told me they have had the same experience.  When I do fall asleep in that short time before having to rise, it always seem to be a very deep sleep and when the alarm goes off, I usually feel even more exhausted than when I was lying awake trying to falling asleep. 3)Finally, are there any known natural remedies for insomnia?  I have never taken anything like Sominex or other over the counter (or prescription drugs) for insomnia?  I was once told these drugs don’t really cause you to sleep, but rather put you in a "drugged state" and rather than asleep you are rather more unconscious, and what you get is not really as restful and healthful as "real sleep." Thanks. Deborah

Response:

Bill try it with hypnosis Guenther – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dear readers: My wife has serious problems with insomnia (she’s also deeply suspicious about the Internet which is why I’m writing.)  She’s tried valerian which gives her headaches and makes her dizzy; she’s tried chamomile which has no effect whatsoever.  Doctors have prescribed Dalmane (addictive), Xanax (addictive and effective only in large doses), Restoril (bad side effects.) I used to have troubles sleeping (I’d wake at 3am and be wide awake for 2 hours) until a friend asked me how much coffee I drank. I said 3 cups…two in the morning and one at 3pm. He told me to completely stop. Well, I love coffee so I decided to just stop at the 2 cups in the morning. The next night I slept clear through the night. Caffiene does really weird things to sleep patterns… Something else that really helps is a hot mug of Ovaltine before bed. The regular cocoa flavor, not the darker chocolate…too much sugar… Also, you ever notice how hard it is to stay awake when you’re tired and you’re trying to watch something like the news on TV? A radio station here used to play the old Suspense shows at 11pm. I’d get into bed and hit the sleep button on the clock radio so I could listen to it and the radio would shut off in an hour. I never made it through a show. Books on tape do the same thing! I hope these suggestions help. Nothing is worse than insomnia. Good Luck Bill

Response:

Alcohol interferes with stage four sleep.  If you are using it for insomnia, you are just compounding the problem. As always, all opinions are purely those of the author, who accepts full responsibility for their ability to upset people. Michael P.Acord, MD

Response:

I have had good experience with Nikken magnetic relaxation products. I was waking up in the night and having a hard time getting back to sleep. After four days with the mattress I now sleep completely through the night and wake up feeling more refreshed and withless stiffness. I would be happy to share this information. Clive Scullion Bodywork Central http://www.bodyworkcentral.com

Response:

Steven, I have known quite a few people to have been helped by certain herbs and supplements.  I have some information if you would like some.  E-mail me your address and I will mail you off some information if you would like.

Response:

Dear readers: My wife has serious problems with insomnia (she’s also deeply

 My recommendation is that she try massage therapy.  This is a great method for helping a person to relax.  There are techniques that can assist with insomnia.  Check your local yellow pages under massage therapy.  A therapist who is a member of the AMTA should be a good one.  Also, you can check out the NCTMB web page for more info on how to select a massage therapist. Sincerely, Ann

Response:

I had the same problem all my life. Then someone recommended this to me & it really worked! Plus it has other benificial qualities, especially for women. Calcium!!!! It’s a natural calming agent. Try taking a supplement of 500mg’s one with breakfast one with dinner (this equals the RDA too). Get a supplement that also contains magnesium as this is needed for the body to absorbe calcium. [The body can only absorbe 500mg's of calcium at a time (hence the morning & nite dose).] It takes about 2 weeks to have effect. It has been bliss!!! If you do a search for calcium on the web, you can confirm these facts. Best. Love, Elizabeth Fiend         ‘;’;';’;';’;';’;';’;';’;';’;';’;';’;';’;';’;';’;';’;';’         ;    slide guitar player in the psycho-thrash band    ;         ; http://philae.sas.upenn.edu/music/rock/morefiends/  ;         ‘                    215-551-1945                     ‘                       ‘;’;';’;';’;';’;';’;';’;';’;';’;';’;';’;';’;';’;';’;';’

: Dear readers: : : My wife has serious problems with insomnia (she’s also deeply : suspicious about the Internet which is why I’m writing.)  She’s tried : valerian which gives her headaches and makes her dizzy; she’s tried : chamomile which has no effect whatsoever.  Doctors have prescribed : Dalmane (addictive), Xanax (addictive and effective only in large : doses), Restoril (bad side effects.)   : : The one remedy which really worked was L-tryptophane which the FDA : took off the market after a contaminated batch from Japan made various : people very sick, and now they refuse to allow it to be reintroduced : to the American market. : : Her symptoms include:  inability to get to sleep until 2-3 a.m.   : Irritability and anxiety if not rested.  Severe sleep : deprivation–which occurs usually without the intervention of one of : the above drugs–causes wild mood swings.  ANy help would be : appreciated. : I had the same problem. All the traditional herbal cures either did : not work or only worked for a short period. L-tryptophan worked on me : but I became a bit worried about taking it after all the adverse : publicity it got a few years ago. All the prescription drugs that I : have tried either stop working after a few weeks or they carry on : working until about half way through the following day. I have tried a : bit of diet "tuning" over the last few months and the best thing I : have found to get a good nights sleep is a generous glass of red wine : just before going to bed. The second best is a double Irish whiskey : with chilled water. So, it’s alcohol for me every night. : Steve : Stephen Wolstenholme: Author of Neural Network Shareware : web:    http://www.tropheus.demon.co.uk

Response:

Dear readers: My wife has serious problems with insomnia (she’s also deeply suspicious about the Internet which is why I’m writing.)  She’s tried valerian which gives her headaches and makes her dizzy; she’s tried chamomile which has no effect whatsoever.  Doctors have prescribed Dalmane (addictive), Xanax (addictive and effective only in large doses), Restoril (bad side effects.)

I used to have troubles sleeping (I’d wake at 3am and be wide awake for 2 hours) until a friend asked me how much coffee I drank. I said 3 cups…two in the morning and one at 3pm. He told me to completely stop. Well, I love coffee so I decided to just stop at the 2 cups in the morning. The next night I slept clear through the night. Caffiene does really weird things to sleep patterns… Something else that really helps is a hot mug of Ovaltine before bed. The regular cocoa flavor, not the darker chocolate…too much sugar… Also, you ever notice how hard it is to stay awake when you’re tired and you’re trying to watch something like the news on TV? A radio station here used to play the old Suspense shows at 11pm. I’d get into bed and hit the sleep button on the clock radio so I could listen to it and the radio would shut off in an hour. I never made it through a show. Books on tape do the same thing! I hope these suggestions help. Nothing is worse than insomnia. Good Luck Bill

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dear readers: My wife has serious problems with insomnia (she’s also deeply suspicious about the Internet which is why I’m writing.)  She’s tried valerian which gives her headaches and makes her dizzy; she’s tried chamomile which has no effect whatsoever.  Doctors have prescribed Dalmane (addictive), Xanax (addictive and effective only in large doses), Restoril (bad side effects.)   The one remedy which really worked was L-tryptophane which the FDA took off the market after a contaminated batch from Japan made various people very sick, and now they refuse to allow it to be reintroduced to the American market. Her symptoms include:  inability to get to sleep until 2-3 a.m.   Irritability and anxiety if not rested.  Severe sleep deprivation–which occurs usually without the intervention of one of the above drugs–causes wild mood swings.  ANy help would be appreciated.

I had the same problem. All the traditional herbal cures either did not work or only worked for a short period. L-tryptophan worked on me but I became a bit worried about taking it after all the adverse publicity it got a few years ago. All the prescription drugs that I have tried either stop working after a few weeks or they carry on working until about half way through the following day. I have tried a bit of diet "tuning" over the last few months and the best thing I have found to get a good nights sleep is a generous glass of red wine just before going to bed. The second best is a double Irish whiskey with chilled water. So, it’s alcohol for me every night. Steve Stephen Wolstenholme: Author of Neural Network Shareware web:    http://www.tropheus.demon.co.uk

Response:

Dear readers: My wife has serious problems with insomnia (she’s also deeply suspicious about the Internet which is why I’m writing.)  She’s tried valerian which gives her headaches and makes her dizzy; she’s tried chamomile which has no effect whatsoever.  Doctors have prescribed Dalmane (addictive), Xanax (addictive and effective only in large doses), Restoril (bad side effects.)   The one remedy which really worked was L-tryptophane which the FDA took off the market after a contaminated batch from Japan made various people very sick, and now they refuse to allow it to be reintroduced to the American market. Her symptoms include:  inability to get to sleep until 2-3 a.m.   Irritability and anxiety if not rested.  Severe sleep deprivation–which occurs usually without the intervention of one of the above drugs–causes wild mood swings.  ANy help would be appreciated.

Response:

AMBIEN is the brand name for zolpidem which is a short acting drug used only for short term relief of insomnia. It is the best drug for sleep inducing for lupus patients and sleep is very important in the treatment of the syndrome. j.mills,dph

Hmmmm… Is that the same as Zopiclon. (Imovane)? If not, this stuff isn’t available in Norway… — Best regards,                 Visit my homepage: Med vennlig hilsen,          <URL:http://home.newmedia.no/flaker/ _Aase Marit_ ))))))

Response:

Could you please tell me what the active ingredient in Ambien is? (Had to dig through claim forms…)  Sorry; my receipt just calls it "ambien".  My MD said it was new (this was Fall of ‘95) and the "base

How did Ambien get started in the Arthritis newsgroup? Just wondering… I work for the R&D department of the company that makes it… For more info, you may wish to check out www.searlehealthnet.com. I’m not sure what the active ingredient is (I’m a graphic artist) but I’m sure you can find out through the web site.

Response:

How did Ambien get started in the Arthritis newsgroup? Just wondering… I

How did a graphic artist come to join an RA newsgroup? (G) work for the R&D department of the company that makes it… For more info, you may wish to check out www.searlehealthnet.com. I’m not sure what the active ingredient is (I’m a graphic artist) but I’m sure you can find out through the web site.

My DR prescribed Ambien for my sleeping problems resulting from my RA in my neck (and other locations). I’ve found that 5mg about 30 min before bedtime works great most of the time. On a few occasions, I’ve need to take another 5mg an hour or so later. The benefits of a rest-filled night of sleep, vis-a-vis my RA, cannot be overstated. I’m just sorry that I refused to take sleeping pills for so long. Jima Adams

Response:

You have to have great insurance to take Ambien around $2 a pill.

Hmmm… more like $.33 each for me.  My receipt says 30 tabs for $9.99 at Fay’s Drugs.  Maybe I have great insurance. Beth

Response:

        Ambien is zolpidem tartrate, a non benozodiazepine (hence not related to valium, ativan etc) hypnotic of the imiazopyridine class. It is an effective sleep inducing agent for some people; I use it in fibromyalgia a lot.  However, some people have no effect or feel quite drugged. Regards, Susan Hoch, M.D. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, Beth! Could you please tell me what the active ingredient in Ambien is? — Best regards,                 Visit my homepage: Med vennlig hilsen,          <URL:http://home.newmedia.no/flaker/ _Aase Marit_ )))))) I hope you can help me.  I’m at my wits end.  I have never been the best sleeper, but now I find I’m up all night – (snip) He says its the lesser of two evils – I suffer more if I don’t sleep, than if I get hooked. Any suggestions?  I hate to add more drugs to the list – You might want to ask your doctor about Ambien.  It is the best sleeping aid I have ever used.   (snip) I don’t know how it would interact with the Tylenol3.  Perhaps if you could sleep you wouldn’t need the Tylenol3? I want to heartily second the Ambien!  I am extremely sensitive to OTC sleep aids (take 1/2 dose and still fuzzy the next day) but I wasn’t getting my deep sleep.  My MD gave me the Ambien and it worked wonders! He told me there is no problem taking it with anything else I am on – which is Tylenol 3, anti-histamine/decongestant, a muscle relaxant, and Daypro (no, not all at once!  Each "as needed"). It truly is a "miracle drug" for me.  MD expressed a little concern about addiction to the Ambien though, and so he is rather stingy on prescribing it and I save it for "special occasions".  But as Laura/Sarah suggested, when I get the sleep I require, I don’t need so much in the line of pain meds. Good luck to you – Beth Floro

Susan Hoch                    

Response:

He told me there is no problem taking it with anything else I am on – which is Tylenol 3, anti-histamine/decongestant, a muscle relaxant, and Daypro (no, not all at once!  Each "as needed").

You have to have great insurance to take Ambien around $2 a pill.   Kathi

Response:

I take felxeril and it also doesn’t make me sleepy so much as it keeps in the deeper stges of sleep so I do not wake up every hour on the hour. Fortunatley, I have not had to take it much lately, but I had no problems with it when I was.  and at the time I was also on prenisone, relafin, and sulfasalizine.  Take Care. Nan – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I hope you can help me.  I’m at my wits end.  I have never been the best sleeper, but now I find I’m up all night – (snip) He says its the lesser of two evils – I suffer more if I don’t sleep, than if I get hooked. Any suggestions?  I hate to add more drugs to the list –

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all, I hope you can help me.  I’m at my wits end.  I have never been the best sleeper, but now I find I’m up all night – I finally doze from about six am to 9:30 or ten and thats it. My rd gave me 30 mgms of seraz (serax), but it only helped if I took 2 at a time.  Which is definately too many.  She gave up and sent me to my family doctor with this one.  He first gave me trypto something that didn’t help at all, and now he gives me immovane, which is only margianlly better, plus its addictive.  He says its the lesser of two evils – I suffer more if I don’t sleep, than if I ge hooked. Any suggestions?  I hate to add more drugs to the list – -methotrexate -cyclosporine -plaquenil tylenol #3 -paxil -immovane I feel like a toxic waste site. I’ve tried a couple of herbal remedies, but no luck at all there.  HELP PLEASE. Thanks, Aline

I tried some guaifenesin for fibromyalgia and low energy,   and found out that it helped me sleep better,   and dream a lot. I don’t take it AT bedtime,   just 400mg 2 or 3 times during the day. The only problem with this is you can’t take any salicylates,  that means no NSAIDS,  no aspirin,  etc. Guaifenesin is an OTC medicine,   $8.49 for 100 from a company on the ‘net. It is not a prescription drug.   — Shari Soza

Response:

Hi, Beth! Could you please tell me what the active ingredient in Ambien is? — Best regards,                 Visit my homepage: Med vennlig hilsen,          <URL:http://home.newmedia.no/flaker/ _Aase Marit_ )))))) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I hope you can help me.  I’m at my wits end.  I have never been the best sleeper, but now I find I’m up all night – (snip) He says its the lesser of two evils – I suffer more if I don’t sleep, than if I get hooked. Any suggestions?  I hate to add more drugs to the list – You might want to ask your doctor about Ambien.  It is the best sleeping aid I have ever used.   (snip) I don’t know how it would interact with the Tylenol3.  Perhaps if you could sleep you wouldn’t need the Tylenol3? I want to heartily second the Ambien!  I am extremely sensitive to OTC sleep aids (take 1/2 dose and still fuzzy the next day) but I wasn’t getting my deep sleep.  My MD gave me the Ambien and it worked wonders! He told me there is no problem taking it with anything else I am on – which is Tylenol 3, anti-histamine/decongestant, a muscle relaxant, and Daypro (no, not all at once!  Each "as needed"). It truly is a "miracle drug" for me.  MD expressed a little concern about addiction to the Ambien though, and so he is rather stingy on prescribing it and I save it for "special occasions".  But as Laura/Sarah suggested, when I get the sleep I require, I don’t need so much in the line of pain meds. Good luck to you – Beth Floro

Response:

Hi all, I hope you can help me.  I’m at my wits end.  I have never been the best sleeper, but now I find I’m up all night – I finally doze from about six am to 9:30 or ten and thats it. My rd gave me 30 mgms of seraz (serax), but it only helped if I took 2 at a time.  Which is definately too many.  She gave up and sent me to my family doctor with this one.  He first gave me trypto something that didn’t help at all, and now he gives me immovane, which is only margianlly better, plus its addictive.  He says its the lesser of two evils – I suffer more if I don’t sleep, than if I ge hooked. Any suggestions?  I hate to add more drugs to the list – -methotrexate -cyclosporine -plaquenil tylenol #3 -paxil -immovane I feel like a toxic waste site. I’ve tried a couple of herbal remedies, but no luck at all there.  HELP PLEASE. Thanks, Aline

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all, I hope you can help me.  I’m at my wits end.  I have never been the best sleeper, but now I find I’m up all night – I finally doze from about six am to 9:30 or ten and thats it. My rd gave me 30 mgms of seraz (serax), but it only helped if I took 2 at a time.  Which is definately too many.  She gave up and sent me to my family doctor with this one.  He first gave me trypto something that didn’t help at all, and now he gives me immovane, which is only margianlly better, plus its addictive.  He says its the lesser of two evils – I suffer more if I don’t sleep, than if I ge hooked. Any suggestions?  I hate to add more drugs to the list – -methotrexate -cyclosporine -plaquenil tylenol #3 -paxil -immovane I feel like a toxic waste site. I’ve tried a couple of herbal remedies, but no luck at all there.  HELP PLEASE. Thanks, Aline

Aline, You might want to ask your doctor about Ambien.  It is the best sleeping aid I have ever used.  I think I may even be approaching a normal sleep schedule–something I’ve never had before–since I am now finding myself getting sleepy around 10 pm and able to nod off at least half the time without any medication at all. I don’t know how it would interact with the Tylenol3.  Perhaps if you could sleep you wouldn’t need the Tylenol3? Good luck getting some shut-eye. Laura

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all, I hope you can help me.  I’m at my wits end.  I have never been the best sleeper, but now I find I’m up all night – Any suggestions?  I hate to add more drugs to the list – -methotrexate -cyclosporine -plaquenil tylenol #3 -paxil -immovane I feel like a toxic waste site. I’ve tried a couple of herbal remedies, but no luck at all there.  HELP PLEASE. Thanks, Aline

Aline- I take or have taken most of the medications you’re on and I can relate to the insomnia problem. I’m wondering if you noticed an increased problem with sleep after starting the Paxil.  I take Zoloft which is chemically related to Paxil and Prozac and even though I take it in the morning it causes sleep problems for me and for a lot of other people. My doctor ordered doxepin to take at bedtime which has helped alot.  My psychiatrist said that taking one of the more sedating tricyclic antidepressants at bedtime can help offset the insomnia of the Zoloft/Paxil/Prozac.(I’ve tried all 3). Unlike sleeping pills, the anti-depressants are not addicting.  Deb

Response:

I hope you can help me.  I’m at my wits end.  I have never been the best sleeper, but now I find I’m up all night – (snip) He says its the lesser of two evils – I suffer more if I don’t sleep, than if I get hooked. Any suggestions?  I hate to add more drugs to the list – You might want to ask your doctor about Ambien.  It is the best sleeping aid I have ever used.   (snip) I don’t know how it would interact with the Tylenol3.  Perhaps if you could sleep you wouldn’t need the Tylenol3?

I want to heartily second the Ambien!  I am extremely sensitive to OTC sleep aids (take 1/2 dose and still fuzzy the next day) but I wasn’t getting my deep sleep.  My MD gave me the Ambien and it worked wonders! He told me there is no problem taking it with anything else I am on – which is Tylenol 3, anti-histamine/decongestant, a muscle relaxant, and Daypro (no, not all at once!  Each "as needed"). It truly is a "miracle drug" for me.  MD expressed a little concern about addiction to the Ambien though, and so he is rather stingy on prescribing it and I save it for "special occasions".  But as Laura/Sarah suggested, when I get the sleep I require, I don’t need so much in the line of pain meds. Good luck to you – Beth Floro

Response:

Question:

Thanks .  I know I don’t have sinusitus or reflux.  the way the Dr. explained it to me is that certain fumes or irritants in the air act on my lungs like putting your hand in bleach water for a while would act on the skin on your hand.  I’ll contact my Dr. about stronger inhaled steroids and check into the place in Denver.  Great idea about an action plan.  Sometimes it’s hard to tell how much oxygen I’m getting because when I’m around the triggers it just keeps building. If I would wheeze right away I could tell better.  Usually I just get coated over in my lungs and my heart starts racing, trying to get enough air.  I usually can get air into my lungs but it doesn’t’ do a lot of good because everything is coated over.  Anyway, I usually have to stay away from the triggers, and then lay slanted, with my head down to get unplugged. Again thanks for the good information.  I’ve been feeling pretty stranded

Response:

    I have asthma that mimics bronchitis and goes into pneumonia, pluresy, and whatever else  they want to label it.  I take accolate, combivent, in the hand held and with a nebulizer depending on my choice, vanceril, guaifenicin, flonaise, and allegra-D on a regular basis.  Then I take oral steroids and appropriate anti-biotics when indicated.  Even with all this my asthma is not controlled,  I try as much as possible to live in a controlled environment.  I clean with baking soda and vinegar as all other cleaning supplies triggers an attack.  The Dr. says that my asthma appears to be triggered by a laundry list of substances that are caustic to me.  Is there anything else that is available to help me not be homebound?

Perhaps you need to increase your dose of inhaled steroids, Vanceril in your case. Per the NHLBI EPR2 Low Dose = 4-12 pf/day Moderate Dose = 12-20 pf/day High Dose 20 pf/day (typically to 40) Vanceril is a rather weak steroid inhaler. You could cut the number of puffs in half by going to Vanceril Double Strength; or switch to a higher strength one–Pulmicort or Flovent 220. These require even fewer puffs. The new guidelines recommend using a peak flow meter to monitor lung condition at home, and an Action Plan to increase meds when peak flows drop or symptoms increase. Many difficult cases of asthma are related either to sinusitis or GE reflux. Those with difficult asthma may benefit from a trip to National Jewish Center in Denver for a full evaluation. www.njc.org   800-222-LUNG Ellis

Response:

    I have asthma that mimics bronchitis and goes into pneumonia, pluresy, and whatever else  they want to label it.  I take accolate, combivent, in the hand held and with a nebulizer depending on my choice, vanceril, guaifenicin, flonaise, and allegra-D on a regular basis.  Then I take oral steroids and appropriate anti-biotics when indicated.  Even with all this my asthma is not controlled,  I try as much as possible to live in a controlled environment.  I clean with baking soda and vinegar as all other cleaning supplies triggers an attack.  The Dr. says that my asthma appears to be triggered by a laundry list of substances that are caustic to me.  Is there anything else that is available to help me not be homebound?

Response:

Question:

Inhaled steroids can result in localized infections with Candida albicans in the mouth and pharynx.  Have it cultured and treated, then when you use your steriod inhaler rinse your mouth out after each use.  Be sure to clean the canister daily.   Nicole – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Help! Posted under Information Please! for the last two weeks, have gone back to my allergist after a number of years. Put me on Serevent and Flovent 110. Since that time I have developed a severe bacterial infection and am now on Cipro plus another week of 20mg of Predisone. Went to see him Friday of this last week for another lung function test and switched for the meantime to the next high dosage of Flovent until he tells me to go back to the first dosage subscribed.  Finally, am getting rid of the asthma sound and mucus build-up from the infection. Plus, he first told me not to take my Ventolin unless I felt I needed it. When I saw him Friday, when he changed the dosage of Flovent, he asked me how oftem I was using Ventolin and said once a day. The told me I should be taking it more often with this infection. I told him he did not tell me before use it more and now I do not know the symptoms to use it more often because I do not feel the chest closure. He told me now to take it 2 puffs every 4 hours.  Now that I am getting better, I have developed a very bad sore throat and my tongue feels like its on fire. If I swallow it is so sore and I have no white spots on the throat or inside of my mouth but have tiny little cheese-like particles in my mouth. Can all these medicines I am being bombarded with cause a candida yeast condition? I had a mild yeast infection before I went to the allergist, but did not associate any spreading of the condition when I was taking all this medicine. I could not reach my doctor today to talk to him. Am supposed to call him back Monday. My throat is so irritated from all this coughing from this infection. Michelle in TX

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Help! Posted under Information Please! for the last two weeks, have gone back to my allergist after a number of years. Put me on Serevent and Flovent 110. Since that time I have developed a severe bacterial infection and am now on Cipro plus another week of 20mg of Predisone. Went to see him Friday of this last week for another lung function test and switched for the meantime to the next high dosage of Flovent until he tells me to go back to the first dosage subscribed.  Finally, am getting rid of the asthma sound and mucus build-up from the infection. Plus, he first told me not to take my Ventolin unless I felt I needed it. When I saw him Friday, when he changed the dosage of Flovent, he asked me how oftem I was using Ventolin and said once a day. The told me I should be taking it more often with this infection. I told him he did not tell me before use it more and now I do not know the symptoms to use it more often because I do not feel the chest closure. He told me now to take it 2 puffs every 4 hours.  Now that I am getting better, I have developed a very bad sore throat and my tongue feels like its on fire. If I swallow it is so sore and I have no white spots on the throat or inside of my mouth but have tiny little cheese-like particles in my mouth. Can all these medicines I am being bombarded with cause a candida yeast condition? I had a mild yeast infection before I went to the allergist, but did not associate any spreading of the condition when I was taking all this medicine. I could not reach my doctor today to talk to him. Am supposed to call him back Monday. My throat is so irritated from all this coughing from this infection. Michelle in TX

Being the "Queen Of Thrush", it sounds like that is what you have,of course the usual disclaimer (I am not a doctor….) Nystatin swish and swallow is a good start. If you still have it after that ask for Diflucan. There is also a new swish and swallow of AmphotericinB but that is when you have exhausted all other things. I’m sure that I do not have to say, rinse your mouth,blah,blah blah. Some people are just prone to thrush and you learn to deal with it. It’s pretty nasty but, brathing is better, Peace, Tish

Response:

I don’t know what I have but I can’t taste anything at all.  I did have a very sore throat and the doctor lowered my dose of Azmacort and took away the atrovent and put ventolin on prn basis and I haven’t used that for about five days now.  I still can’t taste anything. The pharmacist suggeste zinc tablets and I have taken those for almost a week plus used the zinc lozenges.  Nothing is working. Help!!!!!!!

Response:

I don’t know what I have but I can’t taste anything at all.  I did have a very sore throat and the doctor lowered my dose of Azmacort and took away the atrovent and put ventolin on prn basis and I haven’t used that for about five days now.  I still can’t taste anything. The pharmacist suggeste zinc tablets and I have taken those for almost a week plus used the zinc lozenges.  Nothing is working. Help!!!!!!!

My wife who has asthma was told that she has to gargle right after using her inhalers to prevent yeast infection in her throat. Hope this helps. Hope you fell better soon.

Response:

I don’t know what I have but I can’t taste anything at all.  I did have a very sore throat and the doctor lowered my dose of Azmacort and took away the atrovent and put ventolin on prn basis and I haven’t used that for about five days now.  I still can’t taste anything. The pharmacist suggeste zinc tablets and I have taken those for almost a week plus used the zinc lozenges.  Nothing is working. Help!!!!!!!

Hi Judy: I’m new to the group but I think I have the answer.  Nystatin oral suspension.  I’ve used it for years. Let me know if it works for you. Puffing away Alan

Response:

Help!

  Now that I am getting better, I have developed a very bad sore throat and my tongue feels like its on fire. If I swallow it is so sore and I have no white spots on the throat or inside of my mouth but have tiny little cheese-like particles in my mouth. Can all these medicines I am being bombarded with cause a candida yeast condition? Michelle in TX

Yes yes yes!!! this is almost identical to what i had two weeks ago.  i was on flovent/serevent and antibiotics (doxycycline…destroyed my intestines. very sad. not doing those again)  i got a sharp, painful sore throat, almost as if someone had cut a part of my throat with a knife.  my tongue was painfully sore and had desnuded patches (the taste buds were gone) on about half, and white patches on the rest. i didn’t have any cheese particles but that seems to make it almost definite (as that’s the clear sign of a vaginal yeast infection!) i went in to the college health center and said "i’m on antibiotics and a steroid inhaler, i think i have a yeast infection in my mouth".  the doctor looked it over, told me i was right, said she probably would have treated me for strep with more antibiotics if i hadn’t figured it out on my own (another reason to be super-informed…).  she put me on nystatin liquid, 1 tsp 3 times a day for 5 days.  it went away although i’m a bit nervous that it’s not completely gone. (last night i felt the sore thoat again for a bit…and i’ve lost the upper register of my voice…)  the liquid was lovely, tasted like minty robitussin, but did the job.   good luck! jodi

Response:

Help! Posted under Information Please! for the last two weeks, have gone back to my allergist after a number of years. Put me on Serevent and Flovent 110. Since that time I have developed a severe bacterial infection and am now on Cipro plus another week of 20mg of Predisone. Went to see him Friday of this last week for another lung function test and switched for the meantime to the next high dosage of Flovent until he tells me to go back to the first dosage subscribed.  Finally, am getting rid of the asthma sound and mucus build-up from the infection. Plus, he first told me not to take my Ventolin unless I felt I needed it. When I saw him Friday, when he changed the dosage of Flovent, he asked me how oftem I was using Ventolin and said once a day. The told me I should be taking it more often with this infection. I told him he did not tell me before use it more and now I do not know the symptoms to use it more often because I do not feel the chest closure. He told me now to take it 2 puffs every 4 hours.  Now that I am getting better, I have developed a very bad sore throat and my tongue feels like its on fire. If I swallow it is so sore and I have no white spots on the throat or inside of my mouth but have tiny little cheese-like particles in my mouth. Can all these medicines I am being bombarded with cause a candida yeast condition? I had a mild yeast infection before I went to the allergist, but did not associate any spreading of the condition when I was taking all this medicine. I could not reach my doctor today to talk to him. Am supposed to call him back Monday. My throat is so irritated from all this coughing from this infection. Michelle in TX

Response:

My dog has a yeast infection in her ear. Does anyone have any ideas on how to deal with this. Thanks

Response:

My dog has a yeast infection in her ear. Does anyone have any ideas on how to deal with this. Thanks

A yeast infection, AFAIK, is either caused by an alergic reaction or the yeast just finds a nice warm ear a good place to set up home. <advert I am the UK and Ireland distributor for a product called Ear Balm which is very good at clearing this up. It’s also available in the US and other countries (see URL below) <advert end If you think it may be a reaction to something that’s changed, check it out. Check with a vet unless you are SURE it’s a yeast infection. Try Ear Balm — Nick Advice & Help with Computers. Housekeeping, Consultancy & Development Your pet can’t clean his ears! http://worldemail.com/wetc/brushtec "VET it first" Vet Virus Protection Software Dealer May you receive the blessings of the goddess every day

Response:

My dog has a yeast infection in her ear. Does anyone have any ideas on how to deal with this. Thanks

Are you positive it’s a yeast infection? Has the dog had them in the past and this was confirmed and treated by your vet?  If not, go to the vet to be sure this is what she has. I have an old (14) lhasa who has had chronic yeast infections his entire life.  About 6 or 7 years ago, on one of my many trips in to see our vet, he suggested using Monostat on him, when his ears got re-infected. Carol Editor Canine Connections Magazine http://www.cheta.net/connect/canine/

Response:

My dog has a yeast infection in her ear. Does anyone have any ideas on how to deal with this. Thanks

Response:

My dog has a yeast infection in her ear. Does anyone have any ideas on how to deal with this. Thanks

A yeast infection, AFAIK, is either caused by an alergic reaction or the yeast just finds a nice warm ear a good place to set up home. <advert I am the UK and Ireland distributor for a product called Ear Balm which is very good at clearing this up. It’s also available in the US and other countries (see URL below) <advert end If you think it may be a reaction to something that’s changed, check it out. Check with a vet unless you are SURE it’s a yeast infection. Try Ear Balm — Nick Advice & Help with Computers. Housekeeping, Consultancy & Development Your pet can’t clean his ears! http://worldemail.com/wetc/brushtec "VET it first" Vet Virus Protection Software Dealer May you receive the blessings of the goddess every day

Response:

My dog has a yeast infection in her ear. Does anyone have any ideas on how to deal with this. Thanks

Are you positive it’s a yeast infection? Has the dog had them in the past and this was confirmed and treated by your vet?  If not, go to the vet to be sure this is what she has. I have an old (14) lhasa who has had chronic yeast infections his entire life.  About 6 or 7 years ago, on one of my many trips in to see our vet, he suggested using Monostat on him, when his ears got re-infected. Carol Editor Canine Connections Magazine http://www.cheta.net/connect/canine/

Response:

 I have had a yeast infection on my penis for a few months. I can’t seem to shake it with the usual treatments. Any suggestions? Thanks.

If you’re sexually active, your partner(s) should be treated as well — otherwise you could be getting re-infected with each act of sex.  Heck, I suppose it’s even possible that you could get a penile yeast infection from fellatio performed by someone with oral thrush. Best of luck. — Chris — Irony is not the same thing as "irony"; point of view is not the same thing as attitude;  I have no confidence at all that these distinctions mean anything anymore.  – Jon Carroll

Response:

:  Have you tried using Tea Tree Oil?  Comes in both an oil and gel : form.  You can get it at any godd health food store/pharmacy.  I thing : the gel like variety would be bes for yor case.  I have used it for athelites : foot after every allopathic remidy failed.  In days it was gone!  Tea Tree : oil good for all types of topical yeast/fungus infections.     It’s worth a try. Thanks, Matthew.

Response:

DG  I have had a yeast infection on my penis for a few months. I can’t DGseem to shake it with the usual treatments. Any suggestions? Thanks.  Have you tried using Tea Tree Oil?  Comes in both an oil and gel form.  You can get it at any godd health food store/pharmacy.  I thing the gel like variety would be bes for yor case.  I have used it for athelites foot after every allopathic remidy failed.  In days it was gone!  Tea Tree oil good for all types of topical yeast/fungus infections.  matthew —  

Question:

Added benefits of pre-surgery:  bone scan and cat scan.  Bone scan found my arthritis (I could have told them), cat scan found a an unknown, unexplained lurker in my gut:  a leiomyoma, which is a benign intestinal tumor.  One out of 15 are discovered before autopsy…  Mine was 5 * 7 * 10 cc; described as the size of a baby’s head.  Leiomyoma was removed at the same time as the Prostate

John,     Wow ….. What a break. Bet you never thought you’d say you were "lucky" to get PCa!! What’s the deal with that leiomyoma? Could it have grown and caused blockage problems down the road?     Oh, my congrats on Mr. Happy. I hope to be posting the same info soon. Tom RRP 12/12/02

Response:

 What’s the deal with that leiomyoma? Could it have grown and caused blockage problems down the road? Tom RRP 12/12/02

Yeah.  It WAS causing problems, and as I think back, it was leaking a bit of blood.  Eventually it would have been found without killing me first )   I’m glad that my trusty Urologist was following the instruction manual for dealing with PCa.  He said that he liked to do the CAT scan because once in a while he picked up a kidney cancer.  He found garbage in my case, but, as Ripley says in the first Alien Movie, "lucky-lucky-lucky." John. —-== Posted via Newsfeed.Com – Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==—- http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups —= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers – Total Privacy via Encryption =—

Response:

What’s the deal with that leiomyoma? Could it have grown and caused blockage problems down the road? Tom RRP 12/12/02

oh … and the surgeon who put my gut back together said that the leiomyoma tumors are slow-growing.  It would take several years to get to the size of a golf-ball.  I guess that sucker was in there for 20-30 years getting bigger and bigger )  I was one of those ‘interesting cases.’ John. —-== Posted via Newsfeed.Com – Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==—- http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups —= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers – Total Privacy via Encryption =—

Response:

Hi, John….. I was relieved of my prostate on November 21…. so in two days, I am expecting to see Mr. Happy standing at attention. )  Thanks for sharing your success with recovery.  It’s the one thing left I keep hoping for!  I don’t see it happening anytime soon….. unless it’s just a change *overnight*. Take care… and use it well….. MikeH

Well, I think it comes and goes…  That’s what I’ve read on the news group, and that seems to be the case with me.  But as the coach said, if you can run a 4 minute mile once, you can do it again.  Just keep practicing and don’t loose heart ) John. —-== Posted via Newsfeed.Com – Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==—- http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups —= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers – Total Privacy via Encryption =—

Response:

Hi, John….. I was relieved of my prostate on November 21…. so in two days, I am expecting to see Mr. Happy standing at attention. )  Thanks for sharing your success with recovery.  It’s the one thing left I keep hoping for!  I don’t see it happening anytime soon….. unless it’s just a change *overnight*. Take care… and use it well….. MikeH – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was relieved of the prostate 11/18/2002.  Started out with one or two pads, but was down to one pad after a week.  Quit the pads on the weekends about 2 months post op, and went work on a Monday at about 3 months, forgetting the pad (as it worked for Dumbo, it worked for me ;o), but I did not need the crows to tell me that I could fly.) The ‘one thing’ that had been old-reliable since 18 months did not function…  I got a script of vitamin V as my kindly Urologist refers to it…  No blue vision, occasional headaches, and a pathetic boner (like Harry Potter:  no bone, but flexible)  Was also taking an anti-depressant (Paxil) classed as SSRI, widely known by pharmacists and psychatrists as a doggie-downer; anti-depressant was to treat the lump in the throat that developed concomitant with the dx of prostate cancer.  Changed to Lexapro, a less potent SSRI anti-depressant, but still no cigar ;o)  On the advise of a pharmacist friend, skipped the Lexapro last night and bingo-bongo-sproingo.  Not quite Mr Happy, but certainly not mister Jell-O: it was insertion quality for sure.

Response:

hi john – thanks for the progress report.  that’s pretty quick recovery for my happy.  i hope to be so lucky. it’s interesting, you mention that you had such a large prostate.  mine was about 30cc. but FELT like 65cc.  reminds you of the joke.  oh, it’s six on hand.  no, it’s five on one hand.  then when you get on the table and the doctor sticks his hand up there.  you know, it feels like six on one hand   ~ curtis knowledge is power – growing old is mandatory – growing wise is optional

Response:

  Was also taking an anti-depressant (Paxil) classed as SSRI, widely known by pharmacists and psychatrists

as a doggie-downer; anti-depressant was to treat the lump in the throat that developed concomitant with the dx of prostate cancer.  Changed to Lexapro, a less potent SSRI anti-depressant, but still no cigar ;o)  On the advise of a pharmacist friend, skipped the Lexapro last night and bingo-bongo-sproingo.  Not quite Mr Happy, but certainly not mister Jell-O: it was insertion quality for sure. Now to get off the SSRI (Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitor) and

onto a different anti-depressant. Happy to hear that both you and Mr. Happy are happy……as that side of things is not in my sphere of experience…..grin!! As to SSRI drugs, I know a lot about them because my daughter has a serotonin deficiency and has to take them.  There are roughly 30 different brands, of which Paxil, Zoloft, Effexor, Welbutrin, and Luvox are the more well known ones.  They are all newer derivatives of Prozac to my knowledge, but our good doctor on this group can better inform you. E. has been on Luvox (horrible fatigue), Welbutrin (stopped working) and now Effexor, which is working quite well as it attacks the problem from a different angle.  And each one worked for about 2 years, then she had to switch.  And every darn one of them has a lot of side effects!! So speak to your doctor…….or better yet, your pharmacist…..and see if there isn’t one that won’t be a ‘doggie downer’.  E. does not have that problem (G).  But as these SSRI drugs seem to be for chemical deficiencies, perhaps there is a totally different anti-depressant that will do in the meantime, that won’t interfere with Mr. Happy. Just my 2 Cdn. cents worth……and if you can manage without them…..go for it.  I refuse to take any myself at the moment and am doing OK without them.  If I need a pill temporarily, I will certainly take one though.  My rant on here last week got rid of a lot of it…..grin.   (thanks, people) The way I look at it is that ‘depression’ is a not an abnormal thing when life is tough, and unless it *really* interferes with your enjoyment of life, it will get better on its own.  I am not a doctor…..but on the flip side, I have seen the amazing difference in E’s life and also my sister’s……as she is battling the same Cheers…….Heather – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Way to go, John You just keep on smiling. We will know why. Lee – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – it was insertion quality for sure. Mr. Happy is the better anti-depressant. You’d better believe it.  They can’t chisel the slight smile off my face today ) John. — Steve Kramer PSA 16 10/17/2000 Dx 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c PSA  .1  .1  .1  .27  .37  .75 Radiation MAY – JUL 2002 PSA  .34  .22  .15  .21 —-== Posted via Newsfeed.Com – Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==—- http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups —= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers – Total Privacy via Encryption

=—

Response:

it was insertion quality for sure. Mr. Happy is the better anti-depressant.

You’d better believe it.  They can’t chisel the slight smile off my face today ) John. — Steve Kramer PSA 16 10/17/2000 Dx 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c PSA  .1  .1  .1  .27  .37  .75 Radiation MAY – JUL 2002 PSA  .34  .22  .15  .21

—-== Posted via Newsfeed.Com – Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==—- http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups —= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers – Total Privacy via Encryption =—

Response:

The ‘one thing’ that had been old-reliable since 18 months did not function…  I got a script of vitamin V as my kindly Urologist refers to it…  No blue vision, occasional headaches, and a pathetic boner (like Harry Potter:  no bone, but flexible)  Was also taking an anti-depressant (Paxil) classed as SSRI, widely known by pharmacists and psychatrists as a doggie-downer; anti-depressant was to treat the lump in the throat that developed concomitant with the dx of prostate cancer.  Changed to Lexapro, a less potent SSRI anti-depressant, but still no cigar ;o)  On the advise of a pharmacist friend, skipped the Lexapro last night and bingo-bongo-sproingo.  Not quite Mr Happy, but certainly not mister Jell-O: it was insertion quality for sure.

Mr. Happy is the better anti-depressant. — Steve Kramer PSA 16 10/17/2000 Dx 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c PSA  .1  .1  .1  .27  .37  .75 Radiation MAY – JUL 2002 PSA  .34  .22  .15  .21

Response:

I was relieved of the prostate 11/18/2002.  Started out with one or two pads, but was down to one pad after a week.  Quit the pads on the weekends about 2 months post op, and went work on a Monday at about 3 months, forgetting the pad (as it worked for Dumbo, it worked for me ;o), but I did not need the crows to tell me that I could fly.) The ‘one thing’ that had been old-reliable since 18 months did not function…  I got a script of vitamin V as my kindly Urologist refers to it…  No blue vision, occasional headaches, and a pathetic boner (like Harry Potter:  no bone, but flexible)  Was also taking an anti-depressant (Paxil) classed as SSRI, widely known by pharmacists and psychatrists as a doggie-downer; anti-depressant was to treat the lump in the throat that developed concomitant with the dx of prostate cancer.  Changed to Lexapro, a less potent SSRI anti-depressant, but still no cigar ;o)  On the advise of a pharmacist friend, skipped the Lexapro last night and bingo-bongo-sproingo.  Not quite Mr Happy, but certainly not mister Jell-O: it was insertion quality for sure. Now to get off the SSRI (Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitor) and onto a different anti-depressant. Physical Specs:  Age 60, fairly good health, Gleason was about 6, 1Tc (or whatever the arragement of letters and numbers is) psa between 3.75 and just over 4.0 at time of discovery.  Large prostate at 65 cc, one core out of 12 positive (but with a prostate the size of a large lemon/small grapefruit, finding the CA in that haystack was luck).  Added benefits of pre-surgery:  bone scan and cat scan.  Bone scan found my arthritis (I could have told them), cat scan found a an unknown, unexplained lurker in my gut:  a leiomyoma, which is a benign intestinal tumor.  One out of 15 are discovered before autopsy…  Mine was 5 * 7 * 10 cc; described as the size of a baby’s head.  Leiomyoma was removed at the same time as the Prostate; was in the hospital for 6 days, and gained 20 pounds of water weight. With a grandfather who died of prostate cancer at age 65, early detection is a good thing in my case… My 20 cents. John. —-== Posted via Newsfeed.Com – Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==—- http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups —= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers – Total Privacy via Encryption =—

Response:

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Robert, dont reply to this sick troll because I have Steve blocked and whenever you reply to him remnants of his posts show up in my newsreader. Just ignore Steve Robert, Steve is a very mentally ill man who does not realize how mentally ill he is. He is one of these people whose got serious problems but is in denial about it. Its obvious that Steve has some problems. Im too burned out talking about this asshole to go into all the details. You know Steve has got some problems…and I know Steve has got some problems. However I do not think Steve realizes he has got some problems. Again, Im done conversing with Steve and I would encourage you and others to not converse with him either. Just ignore him, ostracize him…eventually he will leave. Eric . My courage for my father, my heart for my mother and my prick for a whore…French Foreign Legion saying. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FactsAndFallaciesOfDepression

I’ll give it a shot, Al, I hate to see the cheap shots against you plus I’m pro med, it keeps me sane. Remove the **** from my address for email replies…. —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Here we see a clear reason to ignore the advice of Eric.  He uses the yardstick of his personal experience, rather then the results of scientific research as a basis for advice to other people.  Eric might mean well, or he might want to induce hellish symptomology in others. It is hard to tell, but in any case the experiences of one person, no matter how well meaning are not a safe yardstick to use for ones own health. Linda Gore does the same damn thing but I don’t see you criticize her. The whole thing about SSRIs being "dangerous drugs" is total absolute bullshit. SSRIs are some of the safest drugs you can take, providing you are depressed to begin with and are not bipolar. Even though there is growing body of evidence which says otherwise, even though the SSRI’s were only tested from 6-8 weeks in clinical trials to determine safety while typically they are used for months or years in the real world, even though in trials where placebos were designed to mimic the side effects of SSRI’s were almost as ‘effective’ as SSRI’s themselves. Yeah, SSRI’s are good for some people, but they are mainly a phenomenon of marketing rather then efficacy. Eric My courage for my father, my heart for my mother and my prick for a whore…French Foreign Legion saying. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FactsAndFallaciesOfDepression Remove the **** from my address for email replies…. —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—– Hey Robert, dont reply to the trolls like Steve.

I guess Eric feels you need his help to surf safely, Robert!  Ive got him blocked, but when you reply to him his posts show up in my newsreader.

And how is this anyone’s concern, save Eric’s?   Steve is a very mentally ill troll, in denial of his delusional state. Yesterday my sister came over for Thanksgiving and I mentioned to her this troll guy who follows me around on Usenet harassing me. I told her I suspected he is mentally ill but in no treatment program for it. You see, my sister has a Bachelor of Science in psychology. She completed 36 hours in psychology and was in a social work masters degree program but dropped out cause she realized she didnt want to work in the mental health field. She knows a lot about psychology, talk therapy, etc.

So, according to Eric, his sister is totally unqualified to say anything http://groups.google.com/groups?q=group:alt.support.depression.medica… If a full psychologist is worthless, why does Eric cite the opinion of a person with just a BS in psychology? Anyway I had her read some of Steve’s nutcase posts. She was laughing at his posts and told me that Steve is clearly delusional, to the point he has paranoid delusions actually.

My word, a person you hold up to be a psychology expert is laughing at the suffering of someone who she is diagnosing as very ill?  What’s wrong with this picture?  Perhaps the only place this meeting took place was in Eric’s tortured and defective brain.  Are we to believe that a psychology expert, such as the person Eric holds up will after a few minutes study of internet posts make a serious diagnosis of a severe mental illness?  What’s wrong with this picture?  She told me his incessant belief that psychiatry is out to get us all is a paranoid delusion.

Please post the EXACT posts of mine which form the basis for this diagnosis, please Eric.  As well as his constant neverending insistence that forced ECT is still commonplace in the USA,

Eric denied the many posts I put up about this unusual, but by no means rare fact.  Please go back to my old posts this summer, or read www.ect.org.  along with his constant talking about lobotomies,

Which I mainly mention to defend Eric’s nemesis, Dr. Peter Breggin, or to point out how modified versions of the procedure are being performed at Harvard’s mental hospital, McLean.  "gamma ray" lobotomy machines and other nonsense that I have never even heard of in all my four years of being involved with psychiatry.

Here Eric seems to be implying that since he has been a mental patient for four years he is an authority on all aspects of psychiatry! Delusional thinking in MY opinion! http://www.ynhh.org/gammaknife/infophysician.html Here is an interesting quote from the Yale web site, listed above, on the Gamma Knife: Who can benefit from this treatment? Indications at present include:      * benign tumors such as meningiomas, acoustic neuromas, pituitary adenomas and craniopharyngiomas      * primary or recurrent malignant brain tumors such as astrocytomas or oligodendrogliomas      * solitary and multiple brain metastases      * head and neck tumors such as nasopharyngeal carcinomas and ocular melanomas      * arteriovenous malformations (AVMs)      * trigeminal neuralgia and cluster headaches      * intractable pain secondary to cancer      * movement disorders such as Parkinson’s disease and essential tremor investigational tool for certain forms of epilepsy and psychiatric Haven Gamma Knife Center will be evaluated by a team of specialists with extensive experience, including neurosurgeons, radiation oncologists and neuroradiologists. Candidates for the procedure are selected for treatment only after a thorough review of all prior records and imaging studies. <http://www.ynhh.org/gammaknife/graphics/top.gif She cited delusion after delusion with Steve, some of them paranoid delusions.

Do list this catalogue of mental illness, would you, Eric.  I am sure it will make interesting, and amusing reading! My sister told me Steve clearly needs to be in a psychotic disorders treatment program, possibly at a teaching hospital. His mood does not seem to be that low, thus his problem is most likely a psychotic condition…a disorder of perception she told me.

SO then not seeing things as Eric sees them is now defined as a mental illness?  Not surprising for a troubled fellow who evaluates the worth of a drug by the results he obtained during the use thereof, and bases suggestions to other people exclusively upon his limited experience. In other words, Steve’s a grade A nutcase Robert.

In other words, Eric is a liar who has one goal here:  Defense of his dysfunctional belief system based upon a defective brain, rather then taking ANY personal responsibility for his present state. I will grant that the production of propaganda, out of whole cloth, by Eric would have stood him in good stead with Himmler and other proponents of the ‘big lie’ technique. Come to your own conclusions.

Response:

I think I’m going to stay out of this one, drugs saved my sanity and my life, nuff said. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Here we see a clear reason to ignore the advice of Eric.  He uses the yardstick of his personal experience, rather then the results of scientific research as a basis for advice to other people.  Eric might mean well, or he might want to induce hellish symptomology in others. It is hard to tell, but in any case the experiences of one person, no matter how well meaning are not a safe yardstick to use for ones own health. Linda Gore does the same damn thing but I don’t see you criticize her. The whole thing about SSRIs being "dangerous drugs" is total absolute bullshit. SSRIs are some of the safest drugs you can take, providing you are depressed to begin with and are not bipolar. Even though there is growing body of evidence which says otherwise, even though the SSRI’s were only tested from 6-8 weeks in clinical trials to determine safety while typically they are used for months or years in the real world, even though in trials where placebos were designed to mimic the side effects of SSRI’s were almost as ‘effective’ as SSRI’s themselves. Yeah, SSRI’s are good for some people, but they are mainly a phenomenon of marketing rather then efficacy. Eric My courage for my father, my heart for my mother and my prick for a whore…French Foreign Legion saying. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FactsAndFallaciesOfDepression Remove the **** from my address for email replies…. —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—– Hey Robert, dont reply to the trolls like Steve. Ive got him blocked, but when you reply to him his posts show up in my newsreader.  Steve is a very mentally ill troll, in denial of his delusional state. Gee, Robert, sounds like Eric thinks you need his protection.  What do you think? Yesterday my sister came over for Thanksgiving and I mentioned to her this troll guy who follows me around on Usenet harassing me. I told her I suspected he is mentally ill but in no treatment program for it. You see, my sister has a Bachelor of Science in psychology. She completed 36 hours in psychology and was in a social work masters degree program but dropped out cause she realized she didnt want to work in the mental health field. She knows a lot about psychology, talk therapy, etc. However Eric has stated time and again that talk therapy is worthless. http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&rnum=22&selm=20010327104630.277… Anyway I had her read some of Steve’s nutcase posts. She was laughing at his posts and told me that Steve is clearly delusional, to the point he has paranoid delusions actually. So you sister shares your unique ability to diagnose over the internet, Eric?  Would you care to post the EXACT posts which your totally unqualified, to apply your own standards, sister has reached? She told me his incessant belief that psychiatry is out to get us all is a paranoid delusion. Please post any post which I wrote that would lead to such a conclusion, then please contrast it with a wonderful gem of your own, Eric, like this one:http://groups.google.com/groups?q=group:alt.support.depression.medica… As well as his constant neverending insistence that forced ECT is still commonplace in the USA, Evidence which I posted to the unusual, but by no means rare practice was ignored by Eric. along with his constant talking about lobotomies, I rarely mention lobotomies, usually to defend Dr. Peter Breggin, who, as Eric agrees, lead the movement to push lobotomy from the mainstream of psychiatric practice, and limit it to places such as Harvard Universities mental hospital, McLean Hospital. "gamma ray" lobotomy machines and other nonsense that I have never even heard of in all my four years of being involved with psychiatry. So by being a severely depressed mental patient Eric is by some mystical form of osmosis to learn of every aspect of psychiatry?  And he accuses me of thought disorders! http://193.132.197.83/ContentInternational.nsf?Open Pay special attention to the Parkinson’s section, please:http://www.nwhgammaknife.com/gamma/conditionsframes/frameset.html and from yale: http://www.ynhh.org/gammaknife/infophysician.html#who "In addition, the gamma knife is being used as an investigational tool for certain forms of epilepsy and psychiatric disease. Patients referred to the Yale-New Haven Gamma Knife Center will be evaluated by a team of specialists with extensive experience, including neurosurgeons, radiation oncologists and neuroradiologists. Candidates for the procedure are selected for treatment only after a thorough review of all prior records and imaging studies." Finding this information took me less then 5 minutes.  I am sure that Eric is an experienced web user who could duplicate my efforts in about the same amount of time. She cited delusion after delusion with Steve, some of them paranoid delusions. Do share with us the results of your sisters diagnosis, Eric.  Do tell us the many delusions from which I suffer. My sister told me Steve clearly needs to be in a psychotic disorders treatment program, possibly at a teaching hospital. His mood does not seem to be that low, thus his problem is most likely a psychotic condition…a disorder of perception she told me. In other words, Steve’s a grade A nutcase Robert. In other words, Robert, Eric is a liar who will even invent material from whole cloth to serve his ends, which to me seem to perpetuate the dysfunctional belief system he functions under, due to fear to face his inner demons. But thats just my opinion!

Remove the **** from my address for email replies…. —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Here we see a clear reason to ignore the advice of Eric.  He uses the yardstick of his personal experience, rather then the results of scientific research as a basis for advice to other people.  Eric might mean well, or he might want to induce hellish symptomology in others. It is hard to tell, but in any case the experiences of one person, no matter how well meaning are not a safe yardstick to use for ones own health. Linda Gore does the same damn thing but I don’t see you criticize her. The whole thing about SSRIs being "dangerous drugs" is total absolute bullshit. SSRIs are some of the safest drugs you can take, providing you are depressed to begin with and are not bipolar. Even though there is growing body of evidence which says otherwise, even though the SSRI’s were only tested from 6-8 weeks in clinical trials to determine safety while typically they are used for months or years in the real world, even though in trials where placebos were designed to mimic the side effects of SSRI’s were almost as ‘effective’ as SSRI’s themselves. Yeah, SSRI’s are good for some people, but they are mainly a phenomenon of marketing rather then efficacy. Eric My courage for my father, my heart for my mother and my prick for a whore…French Foreign Legion saying. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FactsAndFallaciesOfDepression Remove the **** from my address for email replies…. —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—– Hey Robert, dont reply to the trolls like Steve. Ive got him blocked, but when you reply to him his posts show up in my newsreader.  Steve is a very mentally ill troll, in denial of his delusional state.

Gee, Robert, sounds like Eric thinks you need his protection.  What do you think?  Yesterday my sister came over for Thanksgiving and I mentioned to her this troll guy who follows me around on Usenet harassing me. I told her I suspected he is mentally ill but in no treatment program for it. You see, my sister has a Bachelor of Science in psychology. She completed 36 hours in psychology and was in a social work masters degree program but dropped out cause she realized she didnt want to work in the mental health field. She knows a lot about psychology, talk therapy, etc.

However Eric has stated time and again that talk therapy is worthless. http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&rnum=22&selm=20010327104630.277… Anyway I had her read some of Steve’s nutcase posts. She was laughing at his posts and told me that Steve is clearly delusional, to the point he has paranoid delusions actually.

So you sister shares your unique ability to diagnose over the internet, Eric?  Would you care to post the EXACT posts which your totally unqualified, to apply your own standards, sister has reached?  She told me his incessant belief that psychiatry is out to get us all is a paranoid delusion.

Please post any post which I wrote that would lead to such a conclusion, then please contrast it with a wonderful gem of your own, Eric, like this one:http://groups.google.com/groups?q=group:alt.support.depression.medica… As well as his constant neverending insistence that forced ECT is still commonplace in the USA,

Evidence which I posted to the unusual, but by no means rare practice was ignored by Eric.  along with his constant talking about lobotomies,

I rarely mention lobotomies, usually to defend Dr. Peter Breggin, who, as Eric agrees, lead the movement to push lobotomy from the mainstream of psychiatric practice, and limit it to places such as Harvard Universities mental hospital, McLean Hospital.  "gamma ray" lobotomy machines and other nonsense that I have never even heard of in all my four years of being involved with psychiatry.

So by being a severely depressed mental patient Eric is by some mystical form of osmosis to learn of every aspect of psychiatry?  And he accuses me of thought disorders! http://193.132.197.83/ContentInternational.nsf?Open Pay special attention to the Parkinson’s section, please:http://www.nwhgammaknife.com/gamma/conditionsframes/frameset.html and from yale: http://www.ynhh.org/gammaknife/infophysician.html#who "In addition, the gamma knife is being used as an investigational tool for certain forms of epilepsy and psychiatric disease. Patients referred to the Yale-New Haven Gamma Knife Center will be evaluated by a team of specialists with extensive experience, including neurosurgeons, radiation oncologists and neuroradiologists. Candidates for the procedure are selected for treatment only after a thorough review of all prior records and imaging studies." Finding this information took me less then 5 minutes.  I am sure that Eric is an experienced web user who could duplicate my efforts in about the same amount of time. She cited delusion after delusion with Steve, some of them paranoid delusions.

Do share with us the results of your sisters diagnosis, Eric.  Do tell us the many delusions from which I suffer. My sister told me Steve clearly needs to be in a psychotic disorders treatment program, possibly at a teaching hospital. His mood does not seem to be that low, thus his problem is most likely a psychotic condition…a disorder of perception she told me. In other words, Steve’s a grade A nutcase Robert.

In other words, Robert, Eric is a liar who will even invent material from whole cloth to serve his ends, which to me seem to perpetuate the dysfunctional belief system he functions under, due to fear to face his inner demons. But thats just my opinion!

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Linda Gore does the same damn thing but I don’t see you criticize her. The reason I find Eric so dangerous is that he writes with such authority, and unless one is skeptical or has been around the bad, dangerous advice eric gives could hurt other people.  The fact that the basis for Eric to make a decision is solely HIS experience is another reason I comment when his posts are less then accurate. Naturally my writing is my own opinion, I am not a doctor.  Eric, on the other hand seems to believe that being a mental patient for four years gives him some special knowledge which I lack. I disagree, vigorously.

I think your not giving people enough credit, IMHO your persecution of one poster shines a bad light on you. Linda Gore gives statistics without a shred of evidence yet that seems to be ok because she is ant-med. Well the thing is she IMHO is the most fucked up poster here and I bet it’s cause she won’t seek treatment by those nasty meds that are so evil yet give me such solace. Remove the **** from my address for email replies…. —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I never had SSRIs incite "suicidal ideation" in me. I think this is bullshit. Its something that the anti-med people are capitalizing. Bipolar people sometimes become suicidal or agitated on SSRIs. Bipolars should not generally be on SSRIs without a mood stabilizer. Here we see a clear reason to ignore the advice of Eric.  He uses the yardstick of his personal experience, rather then the results of scientific research as a basis for advice to other people.  Eric might mean well, or he might want to induce hellish symptomology in others. It is hard to tell, but in any case the experiences of one person, no matter how well meaning are not a safe yardstick to use for ones own health. Linda Gore does the same damn thing but I don’t see you criticize her.

The reason I find Eric so dangerous is that he writes with such authority, and unless one is skeptical or has been around the bad, dangerous advice eric gives could hurt other people.  The fact that the basis for Eric to make a decision is solely HIS experience is another reason I comment when his posts are less then accurate. Naturally my writing is my own opinion, I am not a doctor.  Eric, on the other hand seems to believe that being a mental patient for four years gives him some special knowledge which I lack. I disagree, vigorously. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -The whole thing about SSRIs being "dangerous drugs" is total absolute bullshit. SSRIs are some of the safest drugs you can take, providing you are depressed to begin with and are not bipolar. Even though there is growing body of evidence which says otherwise, even though the SSRI’s were only tested from 6-8 weeks in clinical trials to determine safety while typically they are used for months or years in the real world, even though in trials where placebos were designed to mimic the side effects of SSRI’s were almost as ‘effective’ as SSRI’s themselves. Yeah, SSRI’s are good for some people, but they are mainly a phenomenon of marketing rather then efficacy. Eric My courage for my father, my heart for my mother and my prick for a whore…French Foreign Legion saying. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FactsAndFallaciesOfDepression Remove the **** from my address for email replies…. —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I never had SSRIs incite "suicidal ideation" in me. I think this is bullshit. Its something that the anti-med people are capitalizing. Bipolar people sometimes become suicidal or agitated on SSRIs. Bipolars should not generally be on SSRIs without a mood stabilizer. Here we see a clear reason to ignore the advice of Eric.  He uses the yardstick of his personal experience, rather then the results of scientific research as a basis for advice to other people.  Eric might mean well, or he might want to induce hellish symptomology in others. It is hard to tell, but in any case the experiences of one person, no matter how well meaning are not a safe yardstick to use for ones own health.

Linda Gore does the same damn thing but I don’t see you criticize her. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The whole thing about SSRIs being "dangerous drugs" is total absolute bullshit. SSRIs are some of the safest drugs you can take, providing you are depressed to begin with and are not bipolar. Even though there is growing body of evidence which says otherwise, even though the SSRI’s were only tested from 6-8 weeks in clinical trials to determine safety while typically they are used for months or years in the real world, even though in trials where placebos were designed to mimic the side effects of SSRI’s were almost as ‘effective’ as SSRI’s themselves. Yeah, SSRI’s are good for some people, but they are mainly a phenomenon of marketing rather then efficacy. Eric My courage for my father, my heart for my mother and my prick for a whore…French Foreign Legion saying. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FactsAndFallaciesOfDepression

Remove the **** from my address for email replies…. —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hey Robert, dont reply to the trolls like Steve. Ive got him blocked, but when you reply to him his posts show up in my newsreader.  Steve is a very mentally ill troll, in denial of his delusional state. Yesterday my sister came over for Thanksgiving and I mentioned to her this troll guy who follows me around on Usenet harassing me. I told her I suspected he is mentally ill but in no treatment program for it. You see, my sister has a Bachelor of Science in psychology. She completed 36 hours in psychology and was in a social work masters degree program but dropped out cause she realized she didnt want to work in the mental health field. She knows a lot about psychology, talk therapy, etc. Anyway I had her read some of Steve’s nutcase posts. She was laughing at his posts and told me that Steve is clearly delusional, to the point he has paranoid delusions actually. She told me his incessant belief that psychiatry is out to get us all is a paranoid delusion. As well as his constant neverending insistence that forced ECT is still commonplace in the USA, along with his constant talking about lobotomies, "gamma ray" lobotomy machines and other nonsense that I have never even heard of in all my four years of being involved with psychiatry. She cited delusion after delusion with Steve, some of them paranoid delusions. My sister told me Steve clearly needs to be in a psychotic disorders treatment program, possibly at a teaching hospital. His mood does not seem to be that low, thus his problem is most likely a psychotic condition…a disorder of perception she told me. In other words, Steve’s a grade A nutcase Robert. Eric My courage for my father, my heart for my mother and my prick for a whore…French Foreign Legion saying. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FactsAndFallaciesOfDepression

Sorry Eric, I’ll try to remember not to quote him for you. I think he’s an alright guy but he does have an unusual fixation on you. Remove the **** from my address for email replies…. —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

You know I didnt tell the poster that to frighten him..but to reassure someone reporting suicidal ideations…others have experienced them….. .you guys have a funny way of supporting people…telling them the suicidal thoughts they are having are rare…  which to me be more worrisome than my suggesting its common starting up on SSRI’s so common 25% of subjects in the clinical trials for paxil had suicidal ideations incited ..BTW.. But wtf…tell people having them  their rare…if it makes you feel better…even if it does shit to reassure them..

Cite your sources. Remove the **** from my address for email replies…. —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ideation I`de*a"tion, n. The faculty or capacity of the mind for forming ideas; the exercise of this capacity; the act of the mind by which objects of sense are apprehended and retained as objects of thought. It’s as I thought. Yes, a thought…or idea…  which can prey upon your mind…BUT where its an ideation…only..its unaccompanied by the impulse…or desire to act upon the thought…me thinks.. Hope you feel better today…

Thank you, — ~misfit~

Response:

Hi misfit… the SSRI’s  like Prozac and Paxil..actually incite or activate suicidal ideations in some,   most especially when you just begin them or right after you stop taking them…

Cite your sources. Prozac incited the idea in me once…the second time I went on Prozac…and I spent one really terrified coping with such an idea.. after I gotten bad news in the middle of the night…about an uncle who had committed suicide.. and the suggestion  of it…would not leave me…

Runs in the family I see. I called a hotline…and the person who took my call ended up making me so angry…so I hung up..

Anger and getting along with people seam to be trouble for you Linda Gore. I think the thing really helped me…even while I couldnt get the ideas out of my mind…I still knew it was the  Prozac inciting the idea, and not my idea… ..

The fault my dear Brutus is not in our stars but in our selves…… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all, just thought I’d introduce myself, been lurking a day or two. I suffer from chronic depression and have just started a course of Paxil (20mg day). I am 40 years old, male, and have always tended towards depression, my mother also suffers with it and has been on Prozac for years. I was on Prozac myself about two years ago but only for a couple of months, I had some side-effects that I didn’t like such as profuse sweating, anxiety, insomnia and lowered libido. I entered into a relationship just after that and life got better.  I’ve just (two weeks ago) been released from jail after serving six months for cultivation of cannabis. When I had about one month to go I got a letter from my fiancee saying she was leaving me. Turned out she had an affair with someone she met in a chat room (and I encouraged her to spend time on the net as she was missing me). I’ve been trying to get together with her agian but it’s no-go, she finally told me two days ago.  I have been having suicidal ideations (is that the right word?) to the extent that, yesterday evening I sorted out a length of hose, put it in the car and sat at my puter and wrote a note to leave on the passenger seat. I was just printing the note when a friend called around to visit and ask if he could stay the night on the couch. He has been worried about me. he is taking medication for various things and over the last two weeks I’ve been getting a little Oxezapam off him. I took 75mg last night and the urgency went away. We don’t talk about my feelings a hell of a lot, I have trouble with that face to face (and if/when I top myself I don’t want anyone panicing, trying to stop me). I have a good friend who I’ve never met in person who I have an email relationship with and she knows *exactly* how I feel. She has been very supportive.  This isn’t just one of those "My girlfriend left me and I want to kill myself" situations. My life basically sucks and I credit her (to myself) with keeping me alive these last two years. I’ve been sad and had suicidal t houghts ever since I was a teenager, and a lot more than most.  I honestly don’t feel I have a lot to live for but don’t really want to upset family etc. I’m gonna try to give it a go and have come to the conclusion that I’ll probably need to be medicated for the rest of my life, especially if I want it to be more than a few days. The doctor gave me some Oxezapam today as well as the Paxil, I told her I want something that works now, tonight. She would only give me a little though, 30 x 10 mg and told me only 3 per day.  Basically I s’pose I wondered if anyone has any suggestions for medication. I’m in New Zealand so I may not have the same medications available to me as people in other countries. So yeah, anyone have any ideas? If I’m gonna be in the same mood as I’ve been in for the last 40 years for the rest of my life then I’m not sure I want to go on. Thanks for reading this, — ~misfit~

Remove the **** from my address for email replies…. —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Don’t be too frightened.  While it’s true that SSRIs have incited suicidal ideation in some people, it should be stressed that this is not common.  It’s just something to watch out for and report immediately to your doctor if it happens to you; sort of like allergic reactions to penicillin.  SSRIs work pretty well for most people. S. suricata I never had SSRIs incite "suicidal ideation" in me. I think this is bullshit. Its something that the anti-med people are capitalizing. Bipolar people sometimes become suicidal or agitated on SSRIs. Bipolars should not generally be on SSRIs without a mood stabilizer.

Here we see a clear reason to ignore the advice of Eric.  He uses the yardstick of his personal experience, rather then the results of scientific research as a basis for advice to other people.  Eric might mean well, or he might want to induce hellish symptomology in others. It is hard to tell, but in any case the experiences of one person, no matter how well meaning are not a safe yardstick to use for ones own health. The whole thing about SSRIs being "dangerous drugs" is total absolute bullshit. SSRIs are some of the safest drugs you can take, providing you are depressed to begin with and are not bipolar.

Even though there is growing body of evidence which says otherwise, even though the SSRI’s were only tested from 6-8 weeks in clinical trials to determine safety while typically they are used for months or years in the real world, even though in trials where placebos were designed to mimic the side effects of SSRI’s were almost as ‘effective’ as SSRI’s themselves. Yeah, SSRI’s are good for some people, but they are mainly a phenomenon of marketing rather then efficacy. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Eric My courage for my father, my heart for my mother and my prick for a whore…French Foreign Legion saying. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FactsAndFallaciesOfDepression

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You know I didnt tell the poster that to frighten him..but to reassure someone reporting suicidal ideations…others have experienced them….. .you guys have a funny way of supporting people…telling them the suicidal thoughts they are having are rare…  which to me be more worrisome than my suggesting its common starting up on SSRI’s so common 25% of subjects in the clinical trials for paxil had suicidal ideations incited ..BTW.. But wtf…tell people having them  their rare…if it makes you feel better…even if it does shit to reassure them..  S’cool, like I said, nothing frightens me. And FWIW I agree, it’s better for people to know that it is a known side-effect than for them to solely attribute the feeling to themselves, that way they are less likely to act on it. IMO.

Glad you understood my intent… BTW, please excuse my ignorance but can someone give me a defimition of ‘ideations’ please. I’m sure I know what it means but I’d like to have it defined. LOL, S’okay, I just looked it up: ideation I`de*a"tion, n. The faculty or capacity of the mind for forming ideas; the exercise of this capacity; the act of the mind by which objects of sense are apprehended and retained as objects of thought. It’s as I thought.

Yes, a thought…or idea…  which can prey upon your mind…BUT where its an ideation…only..its unaccompanied by the impulse…or desire to act upon the thought…me thinks.. Hope you feel better today… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Cheers, — ~misfit~

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – the SSRI’s  like Prozac and Paxil..actually incite or activate suicidal ideations in some,   most especially when you just begin them or right after you stop taking them… Well, it’s possible that SSRI’s cause suicidal ideation in a very small number of people. However, since Misfit already has this problem it would be very hard to tell if they were a side effect or not. I got a different explanation from my pdoc, which accurately describes my experience though I don’t have a paper reference for it offhand. My pdoc said that often people are too depressed to act on suicidal ideation when they start antidepressants. I know I had the ideation, but no energy or will to act on it. Sometimes people get an energy lift from the medication before they get a mood lift, so after starting medication people become more able to actually act out the ideation. Again, this matches my experience. I had the ideation without the antidepressants, but as I started to get a little more energy I became a much more genuine suicide risk. Fortunately, I have been able to get through these parts without, yet, attempting to hurt myself. Bright blessings to you. Fiona

What you say your pdoc told you, Fiona, about AD’s is true of all of them.  People are too depressed to do much, and as the AD’s kick in they are able to muster the strength to act on their desires. The difference with SSRI’s, however, is that SSRI’s are noted to actually induce suicidal ideation where it was not present before.

Response:

You know I didnt tell the poster that to frighten him..but to reassure someone reporting suicidal ideations…others have experienced them….. .you guys have a funny way of supporting people…telling them the suicidal thoughts they are having are rare…  which to me be more worrisome than my suggesting its common starting up on SSRI’s so common 25% of subjects in the clinical trials for paxil had suicidal ideations incited ..BTW.. But wtf…tell people having them  their rare…if it makes you feel better…even if it does shit to reassure them..

 S’cool, like I said, nothing frightens me. And FWIW I agree, it’s better for people to know that it is a known side-effect than for them to solely attribute the feeling to themselves, that way they are less likely to act on it. IMO. BTW, please excuse my ignorance but can someone give me a defimition of ‘ideations’ please. I’m sure I know what it means but I’d like to have it defined. LOL, S’okay, I just looked it up: ideation I`de*a"tion, n. The faculty or capacity of the mind for forming ideas; the exercise of this capacity; the act of the mind by which objects of sense are apprehended and retained as objects of thought. It’s as I thought. Cheers, — ~misfit~

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That’s something I didn’t know, that SSRI’s can incite suicidal ideations. Hell, I don’t need that, I had them before I started on Paxil. I’m only on my second day of Paxil and I feel a bit ‘fuzzy headed’ and a little queasy. I hope that these effects will go away, I feel shitty enough already. Don’t be too frightened.  While it’s true that SSRIs have incited suicidal ideation in some people, it should be stressed that this is not common.  It’s just something to watch out for and report immediately to your doctor if it happens to you; sort of like allergic reactions to penicillin.  SSRIs work pretty well for most people.

Thanks for that, I don’t actually have the enthusiasum to be frightened though. — ~misfit~

Response:

the SSRI’s  like Prozac and Paxil..actually incite or activate suicidal ideations in some,   most especially when you just begin them or right after you stop taking them…

Well, it’s possible that SSRI’s cause suicidal ideation in a very small number of people. However, since Misfit already has this problem it would be very hard to tell if they were a side effect or not. I got a different explanation from my pdoc, which accurately describes my experience though I don’t have a paper reference for it offhand. My pdoc said that often people are too depressed to act on suicidal ideation when they start antidepressants. I know I had the ideation, but no energy or will to act on it. Sometimes people get an energy lift from the medication before they get a mood lift, so after starting medication people become more able to actually act out the ideation. Again, this matches my experience. I had the ideation without the antidepressants, but as I started to get a little more energy I became a much more genuine suicide risk. Fortunately, I have been able to get through these parts without, yet, attempting to hurt myself. Bright blessings to you. Fiona — If we had no winter, the spring would not be so pleasant: if we did not sometimes taste the adversity, prosperity would not be so welcome.      – Anne Bradstreet, Meditations Divine and Moral, 1664

Response:

I never had SSRIs incite "suicidal ideation" in me. I think this is bullshit. Its something that the anti-med people are capitalizing. Bipolar people sometimes become suicidal or agitated on SSRIs. Bipolars should not generally be on SSRIs without a mood stabilizer. The whole thing about SSRIs being "dangerous drugs" is total absolute bullshit. SSRIs are some of the safest drugs you can take, providing you are depressed to begin with and are not bipolar.

I’m a drug enthusiast, myself, but I see a problem with this line of reasoning.  What you seem to be saying is that SSRIs are safe for us gloomies, but sometimes dangerous for the flip-flop folks.  This would be fine, except that psychiatrists are notoriously bad at diagnosis.  There are no established physical markers to distinguish unipolars from bipolars; not even on autopsy.  So, suppose you’re a bipolar, and you’ve just had your first plunge into the black depths of depression.  In a few months, you’re scheduled to get very happy indeed, but you don’t know that, and neither does the psychiatrist to whom you’ve just been referred.  As far as she’s concerned, you’re depressed, and you agree with her.  You get Prozac as the drug of first choice.  Since you’re actually bipolar, you’re in trouble because this isn’t the drug for you. Of course, if psychiatric diagnosis were infallible, SSRIs would be safe, but it isn’t, so the prudent approach would be to admit that SSRI prescriptions have their risks, no? S. suricata

Response:

That’s something I didn’t know, that SSRI’s can incite suicidal ideations. Hell, I don’t need that, I had them before I started on Paxil. I’m only on my second day of Paxil and I feel a bit ‘fuzzy headed’ and a little queasy. I hope that these effects will go away, I feel shitty enough already.

Don’t be too frightened.  While it’s true that SSRIs have incited suicidal ideation in some people, it should be stressed that this is not common.  It’s just something to watch out for and report immediately to your doctor if it happens to you; sort of like allergic reactions to penicillin.  SSRIs work pretty well for most people. S. suricata

Response:

Hi HerEvilTwin, Thanks for taking the time to reply.  That’s something I didn’t know, that SSRI’s can incite suicidal ideations. Hell, I don’t need that, I had them before I started on Paxil. I’m only on my second day of Paxil and I feel a bit ‘fuzzy headed’ and a little queasy. I hope that these effects will go away, I feel shitty enough already. Thanks again, — ~misfit~

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi misfit… the SSRI’s  like Prozac and Paxil..actually incite or activate suicidal ideations in some,   most especially when you just begin them or right after you stop taking them… Prozac incited the idea in me once…the second time I went on Prozac…and I spent one really terrified coping with such an idea.. after I gotten bad news in the middle of the night…about an uncle who had committed suicide.. and the suggestion  of it…would not leave me… I called a hotline…and the person who took my call ended up making me so angry…so I hung up.. I think the thing really helped me…even while I couldnt get the ideas out of my mind…I still knew it was the  Prozac inciting the idea, and not my idea…

Response:

Hi and Welcome to the ng,  Hi all, just thought I’d introduce myself, been lurking a day or two. I suffer from chronic depression and have just started a course of Paxil (20mg day). snipped… There are many ADs available. The Paxil will take about 3 weeks to work. I hope you feel better soon.

Hi Lynda, thanks for the welcome and the good wishes. — ~misfit~

Response:

 Hi all, just thought I’d introduce myself, been lurking a day or two. I suffer from chronic depression and have just started a course of Paxil (20mg day). I am 40 years old, male, and have always tended towards depression, my mother also suffers with it and has been on Prozac for years. I was on Prozac myself about two years ago but only for a couple of months, I had some side-effects that I didn’t like such as profuse sweating, anxiety, insomnia and lowered libido. I entered into a relationship just after that and life got better.  I’ve just (two weeks ago) been released from jail after serving six months for cultivation of cannabis. When I had about one month to go I got a letter from my fiancee saying she was leaving me. Turned out she had an affair with someone she met in a chat room (and I encouraged her to spend time on the net as she was missing me). I’ve been trying to get together with her agian but it’s no-go, she finally told me two days ago.  I have been having suicidal ideations (is that the right word?) to the extent that, yesterday evening I sorted out a length of hose, put it in the car and sat at my puter and wrote a note to leave on the passenger seat. I was just printing the note when a friend called around to visit and ask if he could stay the night on the couch. He has been worried about me. he is taking medication for various things and over the last two weeks I’ve been getting a little Oxezapam off him. I took 75mg last night and the urgency went away. We don’t talk about my feelings a hell of a lot, I have trouble with that face to face (and if/when I top myself I don’t want anyone panicing, trying to stop me). I have a good friend who I’ve never met in person who I have an email relationship with and she knows *exactly* how I feel. She has been very supportive.  This isn’t just one of those "My girlfriend left me and I want to kill myself" situations. My life basically sucks and I credit her (to myself) with keeping me alive these last two years. I’ve been sad and had suicidal t houghts ever since I was a teenager, and a lot more than most.  I honestly don’t feel I have a lot to live for but don’t really want to upset family etc. I’m gonna try to give it a go and have come to the conclusion that I’ll probably need to be medicated for the rest of my life, especially if I want it to be more than a few days. The doctor gave me some Oxezapam today as well as the Paxil, I told her I want something that works now, tonight. She would only give me a little though, 30 x 10 mg and told me only 3 per day.  Basically I s’pose I wondered if anyone has any suggestions for medication. I’m in New Zealand so I may not have the same medications available to me as people in other countries. So yeah, anyone have any ideas? If I’m gonna be in the same mood as I’ve been in for the last 40 years for the rest of my life then I’m not sure I want to go on. Thanks for reading this, — ~misfit~

Response:

Hi and Welcome to the ng,  Hi all, just thought I’d introduce myself, been lurking a day or two. I suffer from chronic depression and have just started a course of Paxil (20mg day).

snipped… There are many ADs available. The Paxil will take about 3 weeks to work. I hope you feel better soon. Peace, Lynda

Response:

Question:

Hi Cheryl, So sorry you are going through this.  Sending you caring and support!   Take care, Liz — There is always music amongst the trees in the garden but our minds must be very still to hear it. ASAP Gardening Site: http://www.chickadee.com/asapgardens

Response:

See below….(Phillip)

answered by email as I got it in my inbox as well. P. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Philip, It’s been the worst day…I have been so sick today…I still feel so odd, tomorrow I am only taking 25mg…( she has me on 50)  I had no short term memory, I would start saying something and forget, go into a room and forgot what I went for.. I haven’t had hardly a bite to eat and have been trying to drink.  I am caling Medusa tomorrow then I have to call my freakin primary to see her and then get a referral to go see someone able to help me with this medication..I can’t even think about it.   I think the worst today was when I woke up after just crashing I could hear my dead step father talking to me in my ear…that freaked me out.  I have been on the couch all day and thank God it’s Ted’s early day.  ;o( This whole thing saddens me. — Clowns to the left of me Jokers to the right Here I am Stuck in the middle with you. TC3 Ugh. I started 50mg of Z yesterday…from only a week of decreasing my Remeron from 30 to 15.  I feel like I am on a ship, everything is rocking and I am sweaty and feeling like a wet noodle. Of all freaking times to have to post about my meds with all the crap going on here…  That makes me more upset. One good thing, I have zippo appetite…that Snickers bar sitting on the hutch doesn’t even look appealing. I think you might ask your doctor to reduce the Zoloft dose to 12.5 mg and then raise it slowly. You are now experiencing initial SSRI side effects possibly augmented by Remeron withdrawal (although R is not associated witjh a withdrawal problem as a rule). Do you have one of those lovely benzos on the side to take *as needed*? Philip — Clowns to the left of me Jokers to the right Here I am Stuck in the middle with you. TC3

Response:

Thanks Philip~ I emailed you…oh you bet your boots I have my ativan handy! xoxo Cheryl — Clowns to the left of me Jokers to the right Here I am Stuck in the middle with you. TC3

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – See below….(Phillip) answered by email as I got it in my inbox as well. P. Philip, It’s been the worst day…I have been so sick today…I still feel so odd, tomorrow I am only taking 25mg…( she has me on 50)  I had no short term memory, I would start saying something and forget, go into a room and forgot what I went for.. I haven’t had hardly a bite to eat and have been trying to drink.  I am caling Medusa tomorrow then I have to call my freakin primary to see her and then get a referral to go see someone able to help me with this medication..I can’t even think about it.   I think the worst today was when I woke up after just crashing I could hear my dead step father talking to me in my ear…that freaked me out.  I have been on the couch all day and thank God it’s Ted’s early day.  ;o( This whole thing saddens me. — Clowns to the left of me Jokers to the right Here I am Stuck in the middle with you. TC3 Ugh. I started 50mg of Z yesterday…from only a week of decreasing my Remeron from 30 to 15.  I feel like I am on a ship, everything is rocking and I am sweaty and feeling like a wet noodle. Of all freaking times to have to post about my meds with all the crap going on here…  That makes me more upset. One good thing, I have zippo appetite…that Snickers bar sitting on the hutch doesn’t even look appealing. I think you might ask your doctor to reduce the Zoloft dose to 12.5 mg and then raise it slowly. You are now experiencing initial SSRI side effects possibly augmented by Remeron withdrawal (although R is not associated witjh a withdrawal problem as a rule). Do you have one of those lovely benzos on the side to take *as needed*? Philip — Clowns to the left of me Jokers to the right Here I am Stuck in the middle with you. TC3

Response:

I am sorry you aren’t feeling well. Hopfully you will get used to the new meds very soon. Good luck and I hope you feel better. Amy

Response:

Ugh. I started 50mg of Z yesterday…from only a week of decreasing my Remeron from 30 to 15.  I feel like I am on a ship, everything is rocking and I am sweaty and feeling like a wet noodle. Of all freaking times to have to post about my meds with all the crap going on here…  That makes me more upset. One good thing, I have zippo appetite…that Snickers bar sitting on the hutch doesn’t even look appealing.

I think you might ask your doctor to reduce the Zoloft dose to 12.5 mg and then raise it slowly. You are now experiencing initial SSRI side effects possibly augmented by Remeron withdrawal (although R is not associated witjh a withdrawal problem as a rule). Do you have one of those lovely benzos on the side to take *as needed*? Philip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — Clowns to the left of me Jokers to the right Here I am Stuck in the middle with you. TC3

Response:

See below….(Phillip) Philip, It’s been the worst day…I have been so sick today…I still feel so odd, tomorrow I am only taking 25mg…( she has me on 50)  I had no short term memory, I would start saying something and forget, go into a room and forgot what I went for.. I haven’t had hardly a bite to eat and have been trying to drink.  I am caling Medusa tomorrow then I have to call my freakin primary to see her and then get a referral to go see someone able to help me with this medication..I can’t even think about it.   I think the worst today was when I woke up after just crashing I could hear my dead step father talking to me in my ear…that freaked me out.  I have been on the couch all day and thank God it’s Ted’s early day.  ;o( This whole thing saddens me. — Clowns to the left of me Jokers to the right Here I am Stuck in the middle with you. TC3

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ugh. I started 50mg of Z yesterday…from only a week of decreasing my Remeron from 30 to 15.  I feel like I am on a ship, everything is rocking and I am sweaty and feeling like a wet noodle. Of all freaking times to have to post about my meds with all the crap going on here…  That makes me more upset. One good thing, I have zippo appetite…that Snickers bar sitting on the hutch doesn’t even look appealing. I think you might ask your doctor to reduce the Zoloft dose to 12.5 mg and then raise it slowly. You are now experiencing initial SSRI side effects possibly augmented by Remeron withdrawal (although R is not associated witjh a withdrawal problem as a rule). Do you have one of those lovely benzos on the side to take *as needed*? Philip — Clowns to the left of me Jokers to the right Here I am Stuck in the middle with you. TC3

Response:

Is 50mg a lot? Is it comparable to Remeron 30 or 15?

Yup, 50mgs is too high to start with. Some people start at 12.5mgs, others at 25mgs. Hope you are feeling better Jackie ~*~There came a time when the risk to remain tight in a bud was

Response:

Hi Cheryl, ((((Cheryl)))), I hope you feel better soon, I don’t have any words of wisdom for you, sorry. I’ve been gone a while, what’s going on here that I’m missing? Love Cathy — P.H.O.B.I.A. Off-line NJ Panic/Anxiety Support Group http://community.nj.com/cc/phobia

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ugh. I started 50mg of Z yesterday…from only a week of decreasing my Remeron from 30 to 15.  I feel like I am on a ship, everything is rocking and I am sweaty and feeling like a wet noodle. Of all freaking times to have to post about my meds with all the crap going on here…  That makes me more upset. One good thing, I have zippo appetite…that Snickers bar sitting on the hutch doesn’t even look appealing. — Clowns to the left of me Jokers to the right Here I am Stuck in the middle with you. TC3

Response:

Cheryl, Hope you are feeling better soon.  Those med changes can really get the best of us.  Hangin there… smiles, elise

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ugh. I started 50mg of Z yesterday…from only a week of decreasing my Remeron from 30 to 15.  I feel like I am on a ship, everything is rocking and I am sweaty and feeling like a wet noodle. Of all freaking times to have to post about my meds with all the crap going on here…  That makes me more upset. One good thing, I have zippo appetite…that Snickers bar sitting on the hutch doesn’t even look appealing. — Clowns to the left of me Jokers to the right Here I am Stuck in the middle with you. TC3

Response:

I’m so sorry you feel so crummy!  Pamper yourself today. Love, Di

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ugh. I started 50mg of Z yesterday…from only a week of decreasing my Remeron from 30 to 15.  I feel like I am on a ship, everything is rocking and I am sweaty and feeling like a wet noodle. Of all freaking times to have to post about my meds with all the crap going on here…  That makes me more upset. One good thing, I have zippo appetite…that Snickers bar sitting on the hutch doesn’t even look appealing. — Clowns to the left of me Jokers to the right Here I am Stuck in the middle with you. TC3

Response:

Is 50mg a lot? Is it comparable to Remeron 30 or 15?

different drug different mechanism of action-if your gonna do the medusa dance get her to dosie doe a bit and get her permission to up your ativan or up hers and call Jeff Apter-Zoloft compared to remeron is like qualuudes vrs speed so your now on dexamil and doin a bounce-50mg may be too high for a conversion for you it is a transition so make yourself comfortable as possible instead of white knuckling it-that lack of appetite will change to some carb craving soon this is a signal the zoloft is working but imo may be just change for change sake as the more you crave and consume the less you will burn and lose-she is using an older viewpoint that zoloft reduces appetite-ask some others here if their appetite is reduced-it is no less difficult to wean off then remeron in fact it may be a tad bit more difficult due to its energizing effects on some-get a professional opinion by a psychopharm doc not a transplant renal nephrologist whatever—- she wants to maximize the transplants life and that’s ok but there are other issues-including if you are psychologicaly ready to embark on being med free-trade offs is the name of the game-ch ch ch changes—-love bowie within a few days you will feel better be a patient patient but an assertive one-its your kidney now and your medical program- LM

Response:

TC3 wrote : Ugh. I started 50mg of Z yesterday…from only a week of decreasing my Remeron from 30 to 15.  I feel like I am on a ship, everything is rocking and I am sweaty and feeling like a wet noodle. Of all freaking times to have to post about my meds with all the crap going on here…  That makes me more upset. One good thing, I have zippo appetite…that Snickers bar sitting on the hutch doesn’t even look appealing.

Hi Cheryl. I’m sorry to hear you don’t feel so well right now. You’ll feel better later on I’m sure; not that that’s any great consolation… Hope you are better quickly. Take care please. -Z-

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Path: news.wxs.nl!transit.news.xs4all.nl!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell. syr.edu!europa.netcrusader.net!207.172.3.44!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.r cn.net!rcn!not-for-mail X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVaCEadlqERcrH2iB2DgoRe3oWrW7CknZkw+m+WUDUIrVGnuqIZuMKvN 12:55:51 GMT X-MimeOLE:  Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 X-Priority:  3 X-Newsreader:  Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MSMail-Priority:  Normal Xref: news.wxs.nl alt.support.anxiety-panic:263175 Thank you Anna! My doc thinks if I get off the Rem I can lose some weight…I just feel like I was so manic yesterday then crashed by midnight now I am really anxious and just feeling like a noodle. (  I have to get her ready for school and feel like I won’t be able to get her out of the door.. I don’t want to make her stay home because of this..that isn’t fair to her.  *sigh* I need your hug thanks xoxoxo love Cheryl

Dear one, yes you sounded a bit manic yestreday I think you have worn yourself down totally If you manage to get the sprogg to school try take some rest Cheryl We both know that tiredness is a great motor for PA. Hope you get some rest and hang in there Lotsa kisses over the ocean flying your way Anna – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — Clowns to the left of me Jokers to the right Here I am Stuck in the middle with you. TC3 Path: news.wxs.nl!news2.kpn.net!news.kpn.net!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!f e ed2.onemain.com!feed1.onemain.com!news-out.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!feed2 . news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!not-for-mail Feb 2001 07:29:59 -0500 Lines: UmFuZG9tSVZ9/f13lPYO1NQUJPzRlFuUUs+boUPTy+xZ+DqhBnD8RP1a78V4bucI 12:19:46 GMT X-MimeOLE:  Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 X-Priority:  3 X-Newsreader:  Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MSMail-Priority:  Normal Xref: news.wxs.nl alt.support.anxiety-panic:263162 Ugh. I started 50mg of Z yesterday…from only a week of decreasing my Remeron from 30 to 15.  I feel like I am on a ship, everything is rocking and I am sweaty and feeling like a wet noodle. Of all freaking times to have to post about my meds with all the crap going on here…  That makes me more upset. One good thing, I have zippo appetite…that Snickers bar sitting on the hutch doesn’t even look appealing. — Clowns to the left of me Jokers to the right Here I am Stuck in the middle with you. TC3 Dear cheryl, I did not know you where changing meds Why is that was the other med not doing its work ??? I am really sorry you feel like this. Maybe it gets better soon. I really hope so for you. And otherwise call the doc.  No need to feel awfull all the time !!! You had your share huh VERY ferm hug from Anna

Response:

Hi Cheryl, I know how you feel.  Supposedly, switching from Paxil to Zoloft was not supposed to be any big deal, but I feel different and it is not all my doing.  I am more nervous, and have the trembles.  I am just trying to be patient and see if it passes with time.  I still function, but do not feel comfortable.  Chores are getting done as usual, but not with the same peace. Hope you feel better soon, Cheryl.  Let us know how you are doing! Take care, Liz – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ugh. I started 50mg of Z yesterday…from only a week of decreasing my Remeron from 30 to 15.  I feel like I am on a ship, everything is rocking and I am sweaty and feeling like a wet noodle. Of all freaking times to have to post about my meds with all the crap going on here…  That makes me more upset. One good thing, I have zippo appetite…that Snickers bar sitting on the hutch doesn’t even look appealing. — Clowns to the left of me Jokers to the right Here I am Stuck in the middle with you. TC3

– There is always music amongst the trees in the garden but our minds must be very still to hear it. ASAP Gardening Site: http://www.chickadee.com/asapgardens

Response:

I feel like dog doo. I am manic then exhausted, and I can’t remember anything…I was a mess getting her ready for school. Ack. I know it’s a transition.. Julie, that Snickers is still there so you know I am not feeling well~ LOL Is 50mg a lot? Is it comparable to Remeron 30 or 15? <Mercury, AD change and anxiety…perfect together LOL love Cheryl — Clowns to the left of me Jokers to the right Here I am Stuck in the middle with you. TC3

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I started 50mg of Z yesterday…from only a week of decreasing my Remeron from 30 to 15.  I feel like I am on a ship, everything is rocking and I am sweaty and feeling like a wet noodle. Of all freaking times to have to post about my meds with all the crap going on here…  That makes me more upset. One good thing, I have zippo appetite…that Snickers bar sitting on the hutch doesn’t even look appealing. Dear Cheryl, I`m sorry that you feel so lousy ( If you continue to feel this way, you might want to ask your doctor about decreasing your Zoloft dose to 25mgs for a week, them go to 50mgs, you could even wean slower than this by increasing in 12.5mg increments. I hope you feel better soon {{{{{Cheryl}}}}} Jackie

Response:

I started 50mg of Z yesterday…from only a week of decreasing my Remeron from 30 to 15.  I feel like I am on a ship, everything is rocking and I am sweaty and feeling like a wet noodle. Of all freaking times to have to post about my meds with all the crap going on here…  That makes me more upset. One good thing, I have zippo appetite…that Snickers bar sitting on the hutch doesn’t even look appealing.

Dear Cheryl, I`m sorry that you feel so lousy ( If you continue to feel this way, you might want to ask your doctor about decreasing your Zoloft dose to 25mgs for a week, them go to 50mgs, you could even wean slower than this by increasing in 12.5mg increments. I hope you feel better soon {{{{{Cheryl}}}}} Jackie

Response:

Ugh. I started 50mg of Z yesterday…from only a week of decreasing my Remeron from 30 to 15.  I feel like I am on a ship, everything is rocking and I am sweaty and feeling like a wet noodle. Of all freaking times to have to post about my meds with all the crap going on here…  That makes me more upset. One good thing, I have zippo appetite…that Snickers bar sitting on the hutch doesn’t even look appealing.

How long are you going to look at that Snickers Bar???? Sweetie, ignore the crap here. No biggie. Now, you know that it will take awhile for the Zoloft to get to a theraputic level in your system. You need to hang on through these few physical adjustments UNLESS they are bothering you too much. Then call the doctor and tell him. If you have a chance, call the pharmacist and ask him to give you the details on the zoloft. He should be able to pop that info on his screen while you are on the phone with him. Let him know the side effects you are having…then he can look it up. When my Effexor was increased, each time I had a strange symptom or side effect, which eventually went away. I hope that your sweats and unsteadiness will not be for long. Is that Snickers still sitting on your hutch? love,Julie

Response:

Ugh. I started 50mg of Z yesterday…from only a week of decreasing my Remeron from 30 to 15.  I feel like I am on a ship, everything is rocking and I am sweaty and feeling like a wet noodle. Of all freaking times to have to post about my meds with all the crap going on here…  That makes me more upset. One good thing, I have zippo appetite…that Snickers bar sitting on the hutch doesn’t even look appealing. — Clowns to the left of me Jokers to the right Here I am Stuck in the middle with you. TC3

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Path: news.wxs.nl!news2.kpn.net!news.kpn.net!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!f eed2.onemain.com!feed1.onemain.com!news-out.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!feed 2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!not-for-mail UmFuZG9tSVZ9/f13lPYO1NQUJPzRlFuUUs+boUPTy+xZ+DqhBnD8RP1a78V4bucI 12:19:46 GMT X-MimeOLE:  Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 X-Priority:  3 X-Newsreader:  Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MSMail-Priority:  Normal Xref: news.wxs.nl alt.support.anxiety-panic:263162 Ugh. I started 50mg of Z yesterday…from only a week of decreasing my Remeron from 30 to 15.  I feel like I am on a ship, everything is rocking and I am sweaty and feeling like a wet noodle. Of all freaking times to have to post about my meds with all the crap going on here…  That makes me more upset. One good thing, I have zippo appetite…that Snickers bar sitting on the hutch doesn’t even look appealing. — Clowns to the left of me Jokers to the right Here I am Stuck in the middle with you. TC3

Dear cheryl, I did not know you where changing meds Why is that was the other med not doing its work ??? I am really sorry you feel like this. Maybe it gets better soon. I really hope so for you. And otherwise call the doc.  No need to feel awfull all the time !!! You had your share huh VERY ferm hug from Anna

Response:

Thank you Anna! My doc thinks if I get off the Rem I can lose some weight…I just feel like I was so manic yesterday then crashed by midnight now I am really anxious and just feeling like a noodle. (  I have to get her ready for school and feel like I won’t be able to get her out of the door.. I don’t want to make her stay home because of this..that isn’t fair to her.  *sigh* I need your hug thanks xoxoxo love Cheryl — Clowns to the left of me Jokers to the right Here I am Stuck in the middle with you. TC3

Path:

news.wxs.nl!news2.kpn.net!news.kpn.net!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!f e ed2.onemain.com!feed1.onemain.com!news-out.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!feed2 . news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!not-for-mail – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – UmFuZG9tSVZ9/f13lPYO1NQUJPzRlFuUUs+boUPTy+xZ+DqhBnD8RP1a78V4bucI 12:19:46 GMT X-MimeOLE:  Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 X-Priority:  3 X-Newsreader:  Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MSMail-Priority:  Normal Xref: news.wxs.nl alt.support.anxiety-panic:263162 Ugh. I started 50mg of Z yesterday…from only a week of decreasing my Remeron from 30 to 15.  I feel like I am on a ship, everything is rocking and I am sweaty and feeling like a wet noodle. Of all freaking times to have to post about my meds with all the crap going on here…  That makes me more upset. One good thing, I have zippo appetite…that Snickers bar sitting on the hutch doesn’t even look appealing. — Clowns to the left of me Jokers to the right Here I am Stuck in the middle with you. TC3 Dear cheryl, I did not know you where changing meds Why is that was the other med not doing its work ??? I am really sorry you feel like this. Maybe it gets better soon. I really hope so for you. And otherwise call the doc.  No need to feel awfull all the time !!! You had your share huh VERY ferm hug from Anna

Response:

Question:

Best of luck with the new Message board, but I won’t be participating there because I don’t like the idea of moderated groups/boards. I have lived with an ileostomy long enough not to be bothered by idiots who don’t know what they are talking about or by trolls tossing a ‘bomb’ into a discussion group. I can understand that some people are more sensitive to these things, but IMHO it is better to say to yourself "What a JERK  that person is", delete the message and give it the attention it deserves which is ….. none.  I can’t understand why someone would want to cause negative feelings in people, but I admit that some mentally challanged people do want to do that. If you respond to them in any way they get some kind of sick kick. I don’t want to give them that pleasure. Rob PS If you have to reply to a jerk (sometimes it helps to vent your anger) you can do it with an email to them and save the rest of your newsgroup from having to see the subject line over and over. Just a suggestion. Everyone is entitled to do what they need to do to let off the steam an idiot’s message can cause. PPS Regarding SPAM in newsgroups. If everyone reports spammers to their hosting ISPs (you can use spamcop if you want to do this simply) the levels of spam will stay low.   "libbydoo" <libby…@carolina.rr.com

writes:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

I understand what you mean and it may be a great idea for most. I’ll check it out but I think I kinda like deciding who to toss in the kill file for myself.  Sounds so much like censorship… No offense intended at all; I do understand your view.  I guess I just don’t get upset very easily after all these years.  :) Libby "L.A.T." <ltr…@yahoo.com wrote in message news:8r0hpc$t6e$1@nnrp1.deja.com… Hello fellow ostomates, I would like to welcome all the people that have posted to the alt.support.ostomy newsgroup.  I would like to give these people an option of posting to a message board that records IP numbers to discourage spammers.  Not only do we discourage spammers we discourage insulting remarks made to ostomates in general.  That’s right, this message board is monitored for off-color remarks.  If someone tries to demean ostomates with lurid remarks, that posting will simply be deleted.  If you would like to experience an upbeat message board minus off-color remarks made by people that care to disrupt meaningful dialog amongst ostomates in general, surf on over to the -:- Ostomy Forum -:- at: http://www.hostedscripts.com/boards/ltrapp/ Let’s proceed with meaningful dialog without negative interruptions for the good of all ostomates! Sincerely, Larry Trapp / Webmaster / www.ostomy.evansville.net

if man is 5 then the devil is 6, if the devil is 6 then god is 7, this monkeys gone to heaven,  this monkeys gone to heaven…

Response:

Hello fellow ostomates, I would like to welcome all the people that have posted to the alt.support.ostomy newsgroup.  I would like to give these people an option of posting to a message board that records IP numbers to discourage spammers.  Not only do we discourage spammers we discourage insulting remarks made to ostomates in general.  That’s right, this message board is monitored for off-color remarks.  If someone tries to demean ostomates with lurid remarks, that posting will simply be deleted.  If you would like to experience an upbeat message board minus off-color remarks made by people that care to disrupt meaningful dialog amongst ostomates in general, surf on over to the -:- Ostomy Forum -:- at: http://www.hostedscripts.com/boards/ltrapp/ Let’s proceed with meaningful dialog without negative interruptions for the good of all ostomates! Sincerely, Larry Trapp / Webmaster / www.ostomy.evansville.net Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

Response:

I understand what you mean and it may be a great idea for most. I’ll check it out but I think I kinda like deciding who to toss in the kill file for myself.  Sounds so much like censorship… No offense intended at all; I do understand your view.  I guess I just don’t get upset very easily after all these years.  :) Libby "L.A.T." <ltr…@yahoo.com

wrote in message

news:8r0hpc$t6e$1@nnrp1.deja.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Hello fellow ostomates, I would like to welcome all the people that have posted to the alt.support.ostomy newsgroup.  I would like to give these

people an

option of posting to a message board that records IP numbers to discourage spammers.  Not only do we discourage spammers we

discourage

insulting remarks made to ostomates in general.  That’s right,

this

message board is monitored for off-color remarks.  If someone

tries to

demean ostomates with lurid remarks, that posting will simply

be

deleted.  If you would like to experience an upbeat message

board minus

off-color remarks made by people that care to disrupt

meaningful dialog

amongst ostomates in general, surf on over to the -:- Ostomy

Forum -:-

at: http://www.hostedscripts.com/boards/ltrapp/ Let’s proceed with meaningful dialog without negative

interruptions for

the good of all ostomates! Sincerely, Larry Trapp / Webmaster / www.ostomy.evansville.net Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

Response:

Question:

Brenda, I have never taken Zoloft, but I am on Paxil and when I began taking it I too had increased anxiety for a few weeks.  I did not want to take my Xanax 3 times a day like the doc said.  I finally gave up and began taking it twice a day. Yes I was sleepy but not so anxious now I am on my eight week and take 10mg Paxil and Xanax only if I really need it like going on a long trip or anything out of the ordinary.  My Xanax prescription is .5 mg.  I began Paxil at 5mg, stayed there for a week and then took about 7mg (I had to break the tablets) for another two weeks and then the 10mg.  Your Zoloft dosage may be too high for the beginning.   25 of Xanax and now my heart is beating faster which – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -is causing me to worry. Is this normal, I took it 30 minutes ago. Or is the faster beating anxiety

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a dilema. Yesterday was day 7 on the Zoloft and I went to the doctor and got a prescript for Xanax. Well I was panicky all day in fact I had the worst pa I had ever had.I took a Xanax and I helped a little. (The Xanax is .;25) The problem is last night I started to get the shakes real bad in the middle of the night so I took a alf of a Xanax. It seem to put me back to sleep. I woke up same condition. What is going on ?????? Even pre-med I never had anxiety like this. I know that they is a weaning on process and for two days I was ok but now doctor wants me to up the dosage to 25mg of Zoloft cuz he said 12.5 is not therepetic but he started me low cuz of my reaction. Is this normal. Im shaking like a leaf. I dont want to become so dependent on Xanax that I catn funtion between dosases. Anyone here experience this on day 8.day; Brenda0

Mine was better by day 8…However, I just upped my dose and am worse than ever…So it comes back each time you up the dose while your body gets used to it apparently…And don’t worry about taking the Xanax for this…I’ve noticed the worst of the side-effects lasted about 8 hours after taking it… .5 mg every 4 hours will kill most of this, and then you can take less or none later…And believe me 1-2 mg of Xanax is a small dose…The studies on dependency often say it takes either a large dose (4 mg + daily) or a long period of time (many months) to get a dependency…Even then it just means you have to ween off the stuff slowly…Hope this helps…Also, I am right there with you having upped my dose recently… Take Care, — Charles Phipps

Response:

Ps to my post I just took .25 of Xanax and now my heart is beating faster which is causing me to worry. Is this normal, I took it 30 minutes ago. Or is the faster beating anxiety. My husband is one his way home. The Xanax really drugged me yesterday when I took it. But that was on an empty stomach and this morning I ate a little something. Brenda

Brenda –   If the anxiety is high enough, .25 mg Xanax WILL NOT work…This is why I take .25 mg every 4-6 hours…Once the anxiety kicks in you have to take more often to get rid of it…Try another .25 if the first doesn’t work…This is also why I have to take so much xanax in the morning…The combo of morning obsessions (the day’s going to suck), having taken the Zoloft, and not having taken Xanax in 8 hours leads to a terrible time…Anyway, hang in there… — Charles Phipps

Response:

Charles thank you for your response. I hope we can stay in contact. We seem to have alot of the same stuff going on. Actually my doc want to up my dosage to 25mg. He says that 12.5 is not a thereputic dose. Of course Im afraid since I have a hard time for the last 2 days. Thank you about the info for the Xanax, cuz I just thought I was some kind a strange case that .25 Xanax wouldnt help. I was a #7-8 panic almost all day and then it came down a tad. Now I take my zoloft in the evening so I dont get that rush from the kick in. What do you guys think about this. Tonight is will take 18mg of Zoloft. Chicken aint I. This group has really helped with my fears which just add to the anxiety. Love you guys Brenda PS My chest has been hurting and my lungs I think from the hyperventilation. Anybody else have that???

Response:

I have a dilema. Yesterday was day 7 on the Zoloft and I went to the doctor and got a prescript for Xanax. Well I was panicky all day in fact I had the worst pa I had ever had.I took a Xanax and I helped a little. (The Xanax is .;25) The problem is last night I started to get the shakes real bad in the middle of the night so I took a alf of a Xanax. It seem to put me back to sleep. I woke up same condition. What is going on ?????? Even pre-med I never had anxiety like this. I know that they is a weaning on process and for two days I was ok but now doctor wants me to up the dosage to 25mg of Zoloft cuz he said 12.5 is not therepetic but he started me low cuz of my reaction. Is this normal. Im shaking like a leaf. I dont want to become so dependent on Xanax that I catn funtion between dosases. Anyone here experience this on day 8.day; Brenda0

My pdoc uses a "one month" rule. If side effects are still bad after a month, then it’s time to try something new. If nothing has really happened, even if the depression hasn’t really lifted, he say’s to stick it out until 2 months. Don’t worry about the Xanax right now…but..you made need something longer acting to help with your anxiety. You may want to make an emergency appointment with your doc about using Klonipin, which lasts fairly long in the body, and after a month, you can decide if you wish to stay on them. Believe me though..I took Xanax and Zoloft…and I had MAJOR rebounds when the Xanax wore off. If you really feel you can’t function, then maybe you should try another med. BUT, I ask you, you may want to try the Klonipin route first. Best of luck…and keep posting. We are here to support you.. James MacLachlan

Response:

I have a dilema. Yesterday was day 7 on the Zoloft and I went to the doctor and got a prescript for Xanax. Well I was panicky all day in fact I had the worst pa I had ever had.I took a Xanax and I helped a little. (The Xanax is .;25) The problem is last night I started to get the shakes real bad in the middle of the night so I took a alf of a Xanax. It seem to put me back to sleep. I woke up same condition. What is going on ?????? Even pre-med I never had anxiety like this. I know that they is a weaning on process and for two days I was ok but now doctor wants me to up the dosage to 25mg of Zoloft cuz he said 12.5 is not therepetic but he started me low cuz of my reaction. Is this normal. Im shaking like a leaf. I dont want to become so dependent on Xanax that I catn funtion between dosases. Anyone here experience this on day 8.day; Brenda0

Hi Brenda, You’re taking a *very* low dose of Xanax. On the other hand you’re on a nice low starting dose of Zoloft. In my unprofessional opinion it might be worth trying .5 mgs of Xanax (0.125 is too little), that is two tabs of .25 mg and see how that works before ending Zoloft maybe prematurely. If that doesn’t work either (and you should know within one day, so you won’t have the time to develop Xanax-dependence) I’d say Zoloft isn’t the med for you in which case the best thing to do often is to try another SSRI (Luvox has the lowest side effect profile rep) or maybe move on to a TCA. Philip

Response:

Ps to my post I just took .25 of Xanax and now my heart is beating faster which is causing me to worry. Is this normal, I took it 30 minutes ago. Or is the faster beating anxiety. My husband is one his way home. The Xanax really drugged me yesterday when I took it. But that was on an empty stomach and this morning I ate a little something. Brenda

Heart racing is not a benzo side effect, it is anxiety talking here. It’s harmless (but can feel quite alarming, doesn’t it?). Xanax will make you drowsy in the beginning, it’s a side effect which will disappear. Philip

Response:

Charles thank you for your response. I hope we can stay in contact. We seem to have alot of the same stuff going on. Actually my doc want to up my dosage to 25mg. He says that 12.5 is not a thereputic dose. Of course Im afraid since I have a hard time for the last 2 days. Thank you about the info for the Xanax, cuz I just thought I was some kind a strange case that .25 Xanax wouldnt help. I was a #7-8 panic almost all day and then it came down a tad. Now I take my zoloft in the evening so I dont get that rush from the kick in. What do you guys think about this. Tonight is will take 18mg of Zoloft. Chicken aint I. This group has really helped with my fears which just add to the anxiety. Love you guys Brenda PS My chest has been hurting and my lungs I think from the hyperventilation. Anybody else have that???

Yesssss, I don’t think it’s your lungs BTW but rather your chest (and possibly back) muscles. No reason to raise the Zoloft quicker than you feel you can. Of course 12,5 mg is not a therapeutic dose (although nothing surprises me anymore about this disorder and sometimes seemingly sub-therapeutic doses do actually help) but your doctor shouldn’t be in such a hurry, take your time! Philip

Response:

Philip Peters wrote to: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Charles thank you for your response. I hope we can stay in contact. We seem to have alot of the same stuff going on. Actually my doc want to up my dosage to 25mg. He says that 12.5 is not a thereputic dose. Of course Im afraid since I have a hard time for the last 2 days. Thank you about the info for the Xanax, cuz I just thought I was some kind a strange case that .25 Xanax wouldnt help. I was a #7-8 panic almost all day and then it came down a tad. Now I take my zoloft in the evening so I dont get that rush from the kick in. What do you guys think about this. Tonight is will take 18mg of Zoloft. Chicken aint I. This group has really helped with my fears which just add to the anxiety. Love you guys Brenda PS My chest has been hurting and my lungs I think from the hyperventilation. Anybody else have that??? Yesssss, I don’t think it’s your lungs BTW but rather your chest (and possibly back) muscles. No reason to raise the Zoloft quicker than you feel you can. Of course 12,5 mg is not a therapeutic dose (although nothing surprises me anymore about this disorder and sometimes seemingly sub-therapeutic doses do actually help) but your doctor shouldn’t be in such a hurry, take your time!

I just want to reinforce what Philip says here. The whole idea is to *work up to* a therapeutic dose. Not to scare you away from it. Please don’t let your pdoc bully you on this one. Doctor and patient must work *together* for optimal results. Be easy, Kathryn

Response:

I have a dilema. Yesterday was day 7 on the Zoloft and I went to the doctor and got a prescript for Xanax. Well I was panicky all day in fact I had the worst pa I had ever had.I took a Xanax and I helped a little. (The Xanax is .;25) The problem is last night I started to get the shakes real bad in the middle of the night so I took a alf of a Xanax. It seem to put me back to sleep. I woke up same condition. What is going on ?????? Even pre-med I never had anxiety like this. I know that they is a weaning on process and for two days I was ok but now doctor wants me to up the dosage to 25mg of Zoloft cuz he said 12.5 is not therepetic but he started me low cuz of my reaction. Is this normal. Im shaking like a leaf. I dont want to become so dependent on Xanax that I catn funtion between dosases. Anyone here experience this on day 8.day; Brenda0

Response:

Ps to my post I just took .25 of Xanax and now my heart is beating faster which is causing me to worry. Is this normal, I took it 30 minutes ago. Or is the faster beating anxiety. My husband is one his way home. The Xanax really drugged me yesterday when I took it. But that was on an empty stomach and this morning I ate a little something. Brenda

Response:

Question:

No, it’s not just you.  Me, too.  In fact, I took it once with great success, stopped for a year, resumed it and couldn’t hold it down for more than a half hour. Switch meds. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, has anybody that’s taken Zoloft had a really upset stomach and messed up vision (by messed up I mean cloudy, darkened, or seeing spots)?  Or is it just me?

Response:

well, that certainly sounds like a "bad" reaction to the med. I don’t know if it’s common, but I’d give your doc a call, just to be safe.  There are lote of ADs out there, and while you may have a reaction to one, it’s pretty sure that you can find one that will be ok.  Good luck!

Response:

did this just start when you were put on Zoloft? The upset stomach seems benign enough, but the vision changes probably warrant a call to the Dr…… yeah, all this started when I was put on Zoloft.  I’ve never been on any AD before, so I don’t really know what to expect.

Response:

did this just start when you were put on Zoloft? The upset stomach seems benign enough, but the vision changes probably warrant a call to the Dr……

Response:

Hi, has anybody that’s taken Zoloft had a really upset stomach and messed up vision (by messed up I mean cloudy, darkened, or seeing spots)?  Or is it just me?

Response:

If Zoloft works for you it will help with your symptoms. It gave me back a life.

Response:

for me zoloft did wonders.  yes, it took away the urge to cry and took away the dark cloud that followed me around everywhere i went.  my doctor took me off it for 6 months, thought i was "cured" but i am going back on it come monday.  it gave me a feeling of well-being basically. maybe not to the extent that all the happy people in this world feel, but good enough for me to be able to cope with things a little.  hope it all goes well for you. raelene.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well the Doc gave me Zoloft… And apparently I have to not drink which is not to big a deal but, I can’t have more them a cup or two of caffeine! That may just kill me ! I am SUCH a SUPER tired person with out it Also my Doc is now on vacation can any of you tell me if it’ll help with the feelings that I am going to cry or need to cry?  Or the "foggy",  bogged down , disconnected feelings? –Demise

Response:

Demise: Also my Doc is now on vacation can any of you tell me if it’ll help with the feelings that I am going to cry or need to cry?  Or the "foggy",  bogged down , disconnected feelings?

It helps me enormously with both of those. Best, Diamant.

Response:

writes Thanks so much for your responses!!  I am going to cut my coffee in half for now and see how it’s going in a month.

when I went on that medication, I wasn’t told to cut my caffeine intake at all, and didn’t. Can you tell me more about if it’ll help with the feelings that I am going to cry or need to cry?  Or the "foggy",  bogged down , disconnected feelings?

they *should* go away in a while. if after a month or so you’re still all foggy and weepy and stuff, I’d go back to the doctor and ask for advice. Also what was the major difference you noticed? I hoping to end the disconnected feelings like when your sad but you can’t seem to "snap" back into focus on the things around you.. and the yelling..Oh Man, do I yell! I’m like a three year old throwing a tantrum!

the only difference I noticed was that I had to fight to be awake at all on it.  But that’s not a normal reaction to it. — Laz Spashett       "damaged people are dangerous, they know they can survive" "I can categorically say that you are not a bigger banana head." (Empire Records) * Please visit European Relief Aid and help our work with Romanian children * *                   http://www.gwenhwys.demon.co.uk/era/                    *

Response:

Well the Doc gave me Zoloft… And apparently I have to not drink which is not to big a deal but, I can’t have more them a cup or two of caffeine! That may just kill me ! I am SUCH a SUPER tired person with out it Also my Doc is now on vacation can any of you tell me if it’ll help with the feelings that I am going to cry or need to cry?  Or the "foggy",  bogged down , disconnected feelings? –Demise

When I first went on Zoloft I found that a little bit of coffee went a long way. It seemed to magnify the effects of coffee. That eventually subsided as I adjusted to the Zoloft and its stimulating effects diminished. k

Response:

Thanks so much for your responses!!  I am going to cut my coffee in half for now and see how it’s going in a month. Can you tell me more about if it’ll help with the feelings that I am going to cry or need to cry?  Or the "foggy",  bogged down , disconnected feelings? Also what was the major difference you noticed? I hoping to end the disconnected feelings like when your sad but you can’t seem to "snap" back into focus on the things around you.. and the yelling..Oh Man, do I yell! I’m like a three year old throwing a tantrum! — Demise

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well the Doc gave me Zoloft… And apparently I have to not drink which is not to big a deal but, I can’t have more them a cup or two of caffeine! That may just kill me ! I am SUCH a SUPER tired person with out it Also my Doc is now on vacation can any of you tell me if it’ll help with the feelings that I am going to cry or need to cry?  Or the "foggy",  bogged down , disconnected feelings? –Demise When I first went on Zoloft I found that a little bit of coffee went a long way. It seemed to magnify the effects of coffee. That eventually subsided as I adjusted to the Zoloft and its stimulating effects diminished. k

Response:

I’ve never heard the warnings about caffeine/alcohol.  I believe all things in moderation.  If you DO cut the caffeine, do it very slow, a cup at a time. I have given up caffeine for other reasons, and a slow approach helped me.   as for whether or not zoloft can help with what you mentioned, well I dont have anything more useful to say than it is different with everybody.  Fiddling with doses helps too.  Both my boyfriend and my mom have taken zoloft quite successfully for years.  on the other hand, it didn’t do a lot for me.  Best of luck to you, Heather Well the Doc gave me Zoloft… And apparently I have to not drink which is not to big a deal but, I can’t have more them a cup or two of caffeine! That may just kill me ! I am SUCH a SUPER tired person with out it Also my Doc is now on vacation can any of you tell me if it’ll help with the feelings that I am going to cry or need to cry?  Or the "foggy",  bogged down , disconnected feelings? –Demise

http://treefrog99.homestead.com/home.html

Response:

thusly: Well the Doc gave me Zoloft… And apparently I have to not drink which is not to big a deal but, I can’t have more them a cup or two of caffeine! I drank alcohol ON OCCASION while on Zoloft. You can, just be aware that the effect of the alcohol will be stronger. I also drank as much coffee as I wanted. I was on Zoloft for 2 1/2 or more years. It worked well. The first coule of weeks I had some stomach irritation and other minor side effects but they went away. Good luck and let us know how it goes.

See, it’s been just the opposite for me.  I drink like a fucking fish, and i’ve been on Zoloft for 3 1/2 years.  I can’t really tell a difference…when i went of Zoloft for a month, it seemed like it took less to get me drunk…go fig. Oh, and don’t get me started on caffeine.  My blood type is Mt Dew.   Viq (yeah, i’m kinda unhealthy) Viq (Vauxhall) Official ASD Flirt

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -kmaze…@aol.com (Kmaze001) wrote:

In article <4ra1ft$3…@usenetz1.news.prodigy.com, BWHM…@prodigy.com (Kathryn Taubert) writes: I’m not trying to be contentious here, but virtually none of the people with TS that I know well enough to ask have EVER had a problem with bedwetting. And I know a lot of ‘em. That may be so.  Sometimes the bedwetting isn’t with the person who has TS, but somewhere else in the family. Two of my three children have TS;

my

mom has had bouts of eneuresis (albeit infrequently) throughout her

life

(also a history of migraines).  I have myself have experienced none of these (nor do I have TS). Regards, Kim

That makes sense. Bedwetting is not uncommon in the population at large, so it would follow suit that it would be found elsewhere in the family. Like brown eyes in lefties, as mentioned before. KAT

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

  kmaze…@aol.com (Kmaze001) writes:  In article <4ra1ft$3…@usenetz1.news.prodigy.com, BWHM…@prodigy.com  (Kathryn Taubert) writes:  I’m not trying to be contentious here, but virtually none of the people  with TS that I know well enough to ask have EVER had a problem with  bedwetting.  And I know a lot of ‘em.  That may be so.  Sometimes the bedwetting isn’t with the person who has  TS, but somewhere else in the family. Two of my three children have TS; my  mom has had bouts of eneuresis (albeit infrequently) throughout her life  (also a history of migraines).  I have myself have experienced none of  these (nor do I have TS).  Regards,  Kim

I’ve heard of the problems with both encopresis and eneuresis in a couple of children, seemingly related to meds taken for TS.  In a child who already has eneuresis AND attention deficit, I would think Impramine would be a good choice, since it’s used in ADD but was first used for bedwetting. Jeanne

Response:

Sorry, but your neurologist does not know what he is talking about.  These kids have _huge_ problems with both bedwetting and insomnia.  The big purple book mentions insomnia as part of TS, and I don’t recall about the wetting or not.   We used DDAVP for a while–but it is terribly expensive.  It is a nasal spray about, $115 for a 3 week supply, depends on how many squirts you have to give a night.  But it quit working for us after about 2 1/2 months.   We have had better luck with some of the tricyclic antidepressants.   Desipramine and Anafranil both helped with this for us.  My son is on anafranil now and the bedwetting is nearly gone. We are giving Melatonin for sleeping right now.  Garret takes about 2mg at bedtime.  He sleeps pretty well, but still wakes up around 4:00!!!!  On tv I saw something advertised called Melatrex (or something like that).  They said it was a long-acting Melatonin, so it would have a night-long effect.  It sounded _great_ to me, but our health food store is small and doesn’t carry much.  The only thing with Melatonin is it is a bit controversial because the jury is still out on long-term health affects from taking it.  And because it is a nutritional supplement, it is not tested by the FDA.

Response:

There are 2 things that you might look into: 1.  Dr. David Cummings wrote a book called "Tourette Syndrome and Human Behavior" .   In this book, he mentions bed wetting as part of the

overall

big picture with people with TS bedwetting or relatives within the

family

tree having this problem.

Comings is wrong here. There is no data to support this assertion. Bed wetting is COMMON amongst children under stress. And those NOT under any particular stress as well. It usually passes after a time, in the great majority of cases. I don’t know where the H… he gets this stuff. It’s like saying that people who are left-handed have brown eyes somewhere in their family tree. Brown eyes are the most common ones. Of COURSE there will be brown eyes somewhere in the family of a left-handed person. jeezzzzz I have TS. I have a male cousin with un DXed TS. I have a sister with bi- polar and a slew of other things. I have another sister with probably OCD and ADD. Dysthymia runs in my family. And so on. NONE of us ever had a problem with bed wetting. Were it so, believe me, I’d have known about it. KAT in CT

Response:

Sorry, but your neurologist does not know what he is talking about.  

These

kids have _huge_ problems with both bedwetting and insomnia.  The big purple book mentions insomnia as part of TS, and I don’t recall about

the

wetting or not.  

No, again. ‘Us Kids" do NOT necessarily have a problem with bedwetting that is DIRECTLY related to the TS gene or genes. And if by the "big purple book" you mean the DSRM-IV, you won’t see bedwetting listed as a symptom of TS because it ISN"T a symptom of TS. KAT in CT

Response:

Don’t you think this is like so many other parts of TS.  Some people have just TS.  Some people have TS and OCD.  Some people have just OCD.  Some people have TS and bi-polar.  My son has TS, OCD, and Asperger’s.  Some people with TS have bedwetting, and some do not. All the people I know with TS also had bedwetting problems as children. Darcie

Response:

In article <31D547D2.2…@innet.be

, Tamara Foubert <pub00…@innet.be

writes:

The neurologist says there is no connection between TS and bedwetting and that the fact that he is taking Orap is of no influence. He says that stress is the major cause of bedwetting. But since he’s in a LD school, we managed to reduce stress considerably.

I have read and heard from a psychologist very knowledgeable about TS that the two are very much related.  Sleep disorders, bedwetting, and night terrors are all disorders of arousal that are somehow connected to TS.  In fact, when she was taking a history to see if  my two children had TS, one of her first questions was whether there was a history of bedwetting in our family (there was, as it happened).  Good luck; I’d get another opinion if I were you. Regards, Kim

Response:

My 8 year old son with TS and ADD wet his bed every night until last summer.  We got an alarm that clips to his pajama top, and has wires connected to a kind of snap that attached to his underwear.  As soon as he started wetting the alarm would sound.  I would get him up and take him to the bathroom, then together we would change the sheets on his bed.  After about a month, the bedwetting stopped!  It came back again a couple months ago when he was taking Risperdal.  As soon as we stopped the Risperdal, the bedwetting stopped again. I don’t know about whether there is a link between bedwetting and TS/ADD. He hadn’t been diagnosed yet when we consulted the pediatrician about the bedwetting.  The doctor did say bedwetting seems to run in families, and there was a history of it in both my husband’s and my family. Good luck! Mary

Response:

I have read and heard from a psychologist very knowledgeable about TS

that

the two are very much related.  Sleep disorders, bedwetting, and night terrors are all disorders of arousal that are somehow connected to TS.  

In

fact, when she was taking a history to see if  my two children had TS,

one

of her first questions was whether there was a history of bedwetting in our family (there was, as it happened).  Good luck; I’d get another opinion if I were you.

Kim, ask your psychologist where she got this information, that you’d like to see the data. I suspect she’ll dig up the Comings book. I personally would like VERY much to know what hard data she has to support this assertion re: TS and bedwetting. Ask her to provide you, if she will,  with her source of information. I’ll look it up myself. KAT in CT

Response:

All the people I know with TS also had bedwetting problems as children.

Darcie

I’m not trying to be contentious here, but virtually none of the people with TS that I know well enough to ask have EVER had a problem with bedwetting. And I know a lot of ‘em. KAT in CT

Response:

In article <4r627v$1…@usenetz1.news.prodigy.com

, BWHM…@prodigy.com

(Kathryn Taubert) writes:

No, again. ‘Us Kids" do NOT necessarily have a problem with bedwetting that is DIRECTLY related to the TS gene or genes. And if by the "big purple book" you mean the DSRM-IV, you won’t see bedwetting listed as a symptom of TS because it ISN"T a symptom of TS.

Kat, Please look at the original post.  The question posed was *whether* there’s a connection.  It was not whether bedwetting is a symptom of TS or whether bedwetting is *directly* related to the gene.  Maybe the connection is as simple as some folks with TS are under more stress and thus have a higher incidence of enueresis (sp?).  In any case, I have heard about this through a local psychologist who is highly respected for her work with TS.  That doesn’t mean she’s right either, but let’s keep an open mind here.  Other related problems (the so-called disorders of arousal) include migraines, sleepwalking, bruxism, and night terrors. Regards, Kim

Response:

In article <4r8rp6$…@newsbf02.news.aol.com

, kmaze…@aol.com (Kmaze001)

writes: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

I have read and heard from a psychologist very knowledgeable about TS

that

the two are very much related.  Sleep disorders, bedwetting, and night terrors are all disorders of arousal that are somehow connected to TS.

In

fact, when she was taking a history to see if  my two children had TS,

one

of her first questions was whether there was a history of bedwetting in our family (there was, as it happened).  Good luck; I’d get another opinion if I were you. Regards, Kim

The problem is that there is no research that has been done on this subject – just a few docs that have tried to find a connection.  What needs to be done is for a data base to be formed with sleep disorders, bedwetting and TS.  Research studies will then need to be done to substantiate this theory.  There may very well be a relationship, but bed wetting isn’t found in any people with TS that I know.  I do know many people without TS that are perfectly normal in every other way that are bed wetters, and have no history of TS in their families. Sleep disorders, on the other hand, seem to be present in a significant number of people with TS, so bed wetting in that respect, could be a result of a sleep problem.  Melatonin has helped many with TS, and Dr. Roger Freeman has touted it as effective in helping the sleep problems in TS.  This makes sense since melatonin is formed from serotonin, and serotonin has been found to be low in a significant number of people with TS.  It is very interesting that antidepressants are used for bed wetters.  They may help by raising serotonin, or maybe they stimulate the body not to go into a deep sleep.  It is my understanding that melatonin just helps the body fall asleep, and doesn’t effect the deepness of the sleep, so that the person feels refreshed and not groggy upon waking.  Too much melatonin is not good, however, and there is some speculation that it may delay puberty.  My son wears earplugs to bed to screen out noises to aid him in going to sleep. Others have equally ingenious techniques in falling asleep – it is highly individual.   Bonnie Grimaldi  in Columbus, Ohio

Response:

Tamara My son is also 8 and wets his bed, but he does not have insomnia. In fact he sleeps so deeply we have trouble waking him. We had always attributed the wetting to his inability to wake himself in time to get to the batrhroom. The diapers will not help him stop. They will reinforce your expectation that he WILL wet the bed every night. David Grupper David Grupper, Brooklyn, NY

Response:

In article <4ra1ft$3…@usenetz1.news.prodigy.com

, BWHM…@prodigy.com

(Kathryn Taubert) writes:

I’m not trying to be contentious here, but virtually none of the people with TS that I know well enough to ask have EVER had a problem with bedwetting. And I know a lot of ‘em. KAT in CT

 Kat,  I have TS and wet the bed up to the age of 14 although with less frequency as I reached that age. It may not be TS but related to some comorbid disorder. I always was a deep sleeper and I’m sure that had a lot to do with it. Now I wonder (and should have asked the doc) if at 41 my enlarged prostrate has any connection with my bedwetting and my bodies attempts at stopping it by overworking the prostrate.  There is no known history of bedwetting in my family but then again I never asked . There is also no known TS in my family but other movement disorders tend to run in our family. Things like essential tremor and spastic torticollis (part of the Dystonia family of disorders).      Wize

Response:

It has been my experience (re-inforced by research) that bed-wetting of this type is physiological.  The child has virtually no control over the problem.  It seems to me that to take any action that puts the responsibility of control on the child can only lead to fear or rebellion or (worst of all) damaged self-esteem.  My daughter was a bed-wetter, as were many of her relatives in past generations (going quite far back) and all in the same pattern, with the last episodes around age 12.  In my daughter’s case, I tried a homeopathic treatment combined with control of her food allergies.  No more bed-wetting.  My son would go into a frighteningly deep sleep occasionally and lose control of his bowels (still not waking up) and I would clean him, his bed, change both, and sstill he would not really wake up.  Obviously,this is not normal.  I tracked that one down to dairy products, especially late in the day.  He still sleep-walks tho’.  How could these poor sweeties ever be held responsible for controlling these symptoms without damaging their self-image, their self-esteem, their self-confidence, or creating an anxiety pproblem?  Thank God and the companies,for the large and adult size diapers. We did stop needing them, although during my pregnancies, I had flare ups of my bowelproblems and felt a desire to have the diapers around!

Response:

In article <4ra1ft$3…@usenetz1.news.prodigy.com

, BWHM…@prodigy.com

(Kathryn Taubert) writes:

I’m not trying to be contentious here, but virtually none of the people with TS that I know well enough to ask have EVER had a problem with bedwetting. And I know a lot of ‘em.

That may be so.  Sometimes the bedwetting isn’t with the person who has TS, but somewhere else in the family. Two of my three children have TS; my mom has had bouts of eneuresis (albeit infrequently) throughout her life (also a history of migraines).  I have myself have experienced none of these (nor do I have TS). Regards, Kim

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Kat, Please look at the original post.  The question posed was *whether* there’s a connection.  It was not whether bedwetting is a symptom of TS

or

whether bedwetting is *directly* related to the gene.  Maybe the connection is as simple as some folks with TS are under more stress and thus have a higher incidence of enueresis (sp?).  In any case, I have heard about this through a local psychologist who is highly respected

for

her work with TS.  That doesn’t mean she’s right either, but let’s keep

an

open mind here.  Other related problems (the so-called disorders of arousal) include migraines, sleepwalking, bruxism, and night terrors. Regards, Kim

Kim, I did look at the original posts, and it was evident in what I saw there that this "connection" was being, if not engraved in stone, assumed to a disturbing degree. I’ve no doubt the the psychologist who has said this to you is reputable. But even reputable people can be wrong. And without caution, these kinds of posts end up making "fact" which is, at present, no more than speculation on the parts of a relatively few individuals, most of whom have read a book with assertions that have NOT been substantiated by the hard data. The comment on the order of "These kids have lots of problems with bedwetting" is suggestive of a direct connection between TS and bedwetting. And, in my personal experience, that’s NOT the case. Phrases such as "these kids" are a bit misleading. They suggest a commonality that has to do with "their disorders."  And, on line, suggestions have a way of becoming fact without further elucidation, and careful wordsmithing. My mind is, and always has been open. So much so, in fact, that I don’t hold as fact the words of any clinician who suggests something that may be either wrong or misleading, no matter how much I like him/her. KAT in CT

Response:

My son is 8 and is dx’d with ADD and TS. Beside tics, mild ocd and echolalia, he also has severe insomnia and wets his bed every night. The neurologist says there is no connection between TS and bedwetting and that the fact that he is taking Orap is of no influence. He says that stress is the major cause of bedwetting. But since he’s in a LD school, we managed to reduce stress considerably.

Does anyone have experience with the combination of TS, insomnia and bedwetting ? There are 2 things that you might look into: 1.  Dr. David Cummings wrote a book called "Tourette Syndrome and Human Behavior" .   In this book, he mentions bed wetting as part of the overall big picture with people with TS bedwetting or relatives within the family tree having this problem. 2.  Is your neurologist knowledgable about TS?  Have you checked his/her Cirriculum Vitae(professional resume) to see how well versed he/she is on the subject.  There are neurologists out there that will still give a TS patient Haldol because that is the only medication that the neurologist knows to perscribe to someone with TS.  Good luck.   Fred in denver

Response:

My son is 8 and is dx’d with ADD and TS. Beside tics, mild ocd and echolalia, he also has severe insomnia and wets his bed every night. He sometimes stays awake till 2 AM and when he finally falls asleep, he wets his bed and wakes up again ! The neurologist says there is no connection between TS and bedwetting and that the fact that he is taking Orap is of no influence. He says that stress is the major cause of bedwetting. But since he’s in a LD school, we managed to reduce stress considerably. Does anyone have experience with the combination of TS, insomnia and bedwetting ? We tried every possible method, but nothing helps. We are now so desperate that we make him wear diapers again, just to have some sleep. I know that is not recommended, but life is hard enough for him trying to cope with TS… Tamara

Response: