Question:

Dear Coral,     Have you tried to set an alarm for when to take your meds.  I have my inhalers by my toothbrush that way I can take the flovent BEFORE I brush my teeth. When I had to take the inhaled steroid in the middle of the day I set my watch alarm to remind me.  I think they even make little med reminder clocks that you can set to remind you.  Hope this helps  Pam.

Response:

I don’t know if this applies to you, Coral, but I work in the computer industry, and I’m at a computer 8-10 hours a day. I’ve set reminders in Outlook that pop up so that I don’t forget to take my meds. Whatever you try, good luck! — Grant Thornley   "Do you like my mask? It brings thing back from the dead."     Giles, Season 3

Response:

Thanks for replying guys: Chris, yes, Im going to check that pill thing out in a while after I leave the computer, Pam, thats a good idea,and yes I ve tried an alarm but I share the alarm with my hubby, who needs it to wake him up for work, so thats no good. Grant, thats a good idea, didnt think about that. (in a rush) thanks Coral

Response:

I realize that I have to take my maintenance meds if I want to live, but my problem is that I constantly loose track of the time that I have to take them and end up skipping a night or two. Now, Ive been on Flovent and Serevent night and day for two months now and begining to feel like a crack head constantly inhaling on my areochamber.lol but seriously, sometimes I cant keep track of the time and I end up forgetting to take em. And after a while it feels like I going through some type of withdrawal.

At almost any drug store, you can get a pill box with a built-in alarm.  In almost any department store, you can get a watch with a built-in alarm.  Either will cost you less than $50, and be well-worth the expense if it helps you remember your meds. Chris Owens

Response:

I realize that I have to take my maintenance meds if I want to live, but my problem is that I constantly loose track of the time that I have to take them and end up skipping a night or two. Now, Ive been on Flovent and Serevent night and day for two months now and begining to feel like a crack head constantly inhaling on my areochamber.lol but seriously, sometimes I cant keep track of the time and I end up forgetting to take em. And after a while it feels like I going through some type of withdrawal. Coral

Response:

Question:

says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A patent does not last 20 or 30 years.  It is something like 7 or 11 years, (I don’t remember exactly). 20 years from the date it was filed with the patent office.  There are a few ways to extend them to a certain extent, if the patent office was really slow, or it took forever to get FDA approval. I thought so. Now, what if they "enhance" the design of the originally patented technology. Does the 20-year clock start over? I’m asking because it sounds like that’s what ALZA did for Concerta. They took their original design and added a coating of med on the outside so that it would release an initial dose of medication.

In that case I suspect that the patent is on the coating technology. — — –John Reply to jclarke at eye bee em dot net

Response:

The Concerta web page says that if you take 15 mg Methylphenidate 2x/day or 15 mg Methylphenidate 3x/day or 60 mg Methylphenidate-SR, then you should take  54 mg of Concerta every morning by taking a 36 mg and an 18 mg at the same time. Daily dosage above 54 mg is not recommended. The URL is http://www.concerta.net/info.html Katswan

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, I am going to my Doctor tomorrow, and he has expressed interest in trying Concerta. I have a question on this, however. I am an adult, 31 years old. I have been on 20mg (non-SR) Ritalin 3 times a day (60 mg total per day) for the past 5 years. Considering this, what dosage of Concerta should I be on? The 60 mg per day worked fine for me, but I dont see how that dose (per day) can be obtained from the size tablets being offered right now for Concerta (only 18mg or 36mg). I am at a total loss as to why there is no good indicators of what an adult should be taking for Concerta, if (s)he is coming from a regular release Ritalin dosage of 60mg per day? Taking 2 x 36mg. Concerta might be considered to be too high of a dose. There is a new 54mg coming out (I am wondering if it is out yet… possibly). But would this be enough for me? Also, I can find no literature that talks about how much (in mg) is released on the outside-coating ‘immediate release’ of Concerta tabs, and then, how much is released in each remaining layer (2 more layers), and at what time are they released? I went to Concerta.net, but cannot find any data that answers these questions. Can anyone provide some answers to these questions? Thanks. Chris

Response:

I just had a thought, they have generic Ritalin SR, do they have it yet for Concerta? <Christopher wrote No, it is brand new, less than one year old. (Curious again) How long does it take for a generic to be approved and shipping? I think only generics are approved for the type of insurance my daughter has, unless there is a good reason she has to take a brand name medication.

When a new med is developed, that company that developed it has exclusive rights to market it, as with any patented invention. After, I think, 20 or 30 years or so, they lose the exclusivity and other products can copy their design/formula. They can also "lease" the right to use the patented formula/design during their exclusive rights period. ALZA’s web site says that their OROS delivery system has been used for 20 years, but that Concerta uses an enhanced OROS system, so the clock may have restarted ticking, it may be like a new patent. Most health/medical insurance policies push generics (list of covered meds). When my daughter was on Ritalin, I had to make certain the doctor put "Brand name medically necessary" on every prescription, or our previous insurance company would only pay for the generic, since it was available. To get our new insurance company to pay for Concerta, we had to jump through some hoops. The doctor had to write a letter (for which I had to provide him information since we’re new to the practice), detailing all the meds daughter has been on, why they weren’t effective or were problematic, and why we think Concerta will be different. Since daughter’s tried everything, they approved our request and are paying for Concerta. They did not approve it for son, however, as he hasn’t tried Ritalin-SR (much cheaper than Concerta and theoretically similar). I won’t put him on Ritalin-SR, however, because I think the dose is too high for him. When he was on Ritalin, he took 5mg 3x/day. He currently takes 5mg Adderall 2x/day. No way do these dosages compare to 20 mg R-SR, which would be expected to dump 20mg of meds into his system in 4 hours less than he got 15mg of meds (and twice as much meds as he’s taking now). He doesn’t need more med, he needs it spread over a longer day. So I paid for his first month’s Rx for Concerta (nearly $70). Now that we know it’s working well for him, the doctor will write another letter requesting approval. Katswan

Response:

<part of reply snipped They did not approve it for son, however, as he hasn’t tried Ritalin-SR (much cheaper than Concerta and theoretically similar). I won’t put him on Ritalin-SR, however, because I think the dose is too high for him. When he was on Ritalin, he took 5mg 3x/day. He currently takes 5mg Adderall 2x/day. No way do these dosages compare to 20 mg R-SR, which would be expected to dump 20mg of meds into his system in 4 hours less than he got 15mg of meds (and twice as much meds as he’s taking now). He doesn’t need more med, he needs it spread over a longer day. So I paid for his first month’s Rx for Concerta (nearly $70). Now that we know it’s working well for him, the doctor will write another letter requesting approval. Katswan

Thanks for the reply. It is something for me to think about.        Norma   <Sigline space for rent

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just had a thought, they have generic Ritalin SR, do they have it yet for Concerta? <Christopher wrote No, it is brand new, less than one year old. (Curious again) How long does it take for a generic to be approved and shipping? I think only generics are approved for the type of insurance my daughter has, unless there is a good reason she has to take a brand name medication. When a new med is developed, that company that developed it has exclusive rights to market it, as with any patented invention. After, I think, 20 or 30 years or so, they lose the exclusivity and other products can copy their design/formula.

A patent does not last 20 or 30 years.  It is something like 7 or 11 years, (I don’t remember exactly). Copyrights last longer than patents and can be renewed.  Copyrights don’t cover the same thing; they protect expressions of ideas, like books or pictures. Patents give companies (or people) the exclusive right to construct or sell or use a process or principle of operation. However, to get copyright protection for a period, you must disclose exactly how to do it, and anyone can get copies from the patent office after it has expired. Alternatively, companies can just keep things secret.  These are trade secrets, but if someone else comes up with the same idea, the company has nothing they can legally do about it. -Chris Eliot

Response:

says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just had a thought, they have generic Ritalin SR, do they have it yet for Concerta? <Christopher wrote No, it is brand new, less than one year old. (Curious again) How long does it take for a generic to be approved and shipping? I think only generics are approved for the type of insurance my daughter has, unless there is a good reason she has to take a brand name medication. When a new med is developed, that company that developed it has exclusive rights to market it, as with any patented invention. After, I think, 20 or 30 years or so, they lose the exclusivity and other products can copy their design/formula. A patent does not last 20 or 30 years.  It is something like 7 or 11 years, (I don’t remember exactly). Copyrights last longer than patents and can be renewed.  Copyrights don’t cover the same thing; they protect expressions of ideas, like books or pictures. Patents give companies (or people) the exclusive right to construct or sell or use a process or principle of operation. However, to get copyright protection for a period, you must disclose exactly how to do it, and anyone can get copies from the patent office after it has expired.

Well, sorta.  The "game", I am told by folks who have cause to know such things, is to tell enough to get the patent but not enough that someone can reproduce the technology.  Georgia Tech has a course in which you are given a patent and required to design a working device based on that patent.  It very quickly becomes evident how much information is _not_ included in the patent.  Of course this assumes that the device described by the patent will actually work.  One engineer I knew collected whacky patents for stuff that couldn’t possibly work–had his office wallpapered with them. Alternatively, companies can just keep things secret.  These are trade secrets, but if someone else comes up with the same idea, the company has nothing they can legally do about it. -Chris Eliot

– — –John Reply to jclarke at eye bee em dot net

Response:

We switched daughter back to Adderall this morning largely based on what daughter was telling us. It just wasn’t working for her. Now we her taking 30 long however I wonder if she can take another 20 mg dose around 2PM? Is there an Adderall website?? Is anyone taking Adderall this way, three doses a day? Last time we talked to her doctor we found that she was splitting her afternoon dose by taking 10 mg at lunch plus 10 mg later in the afternoon which the the lower split dose. This was one of the reasons he suggested trying Concerta

Response:

A patent does not last 20 or 30 years.  It is something like 7 or 11 years, (I don’t remember exactly).

20 years from the date it was filed with the patent office.  There are a few ways to extend them to a certain extent, if the patent office was really slow, or it took forever to get FDA approval.

Response:

A patent does not last 20 or 30 years.  It is something like 7 or 11 years, (I don’t remember exactly). 20 years from the date it was filed with the patent office.  There are a few ways to extend them to a certain extent, if the patent office was really slow, or it took forever to get FDA approval.

Really?? OK, I didn’t think it was so long.

Response:

A patent does not last 20 or 30 years.  It is something like 7 or 11 years, (I don’t remember exactly). 20 years from the date it was filed with the patent office.  There are a few ways to extend them to a certain extent, if the patent office was really slow, or it took forever to get FDA approval.

I thought so. Now, what if they "enhance" the design of the originally patented technology. Does the 20-year clock start over? I’m asking because it sounds like that’s what ALZA did for Concerta. They took their original design and added a coating of med on the outside so that it would release an initial dose of medication. Katswan

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone know of a free online PDR reference for Concerta and Adderall? We are at 56 mg/day on a 14yr old and wonder if we have the option of increasing or possibly we may end up going back to the Adderall and try to figure out a better way of managing its level As a medic, I would recommend talking to her Dr first. PDR’s should be available at most libraries. While my USP DI is a bit old (1996, they ain’t cheap), the usual pediatric dose for 6 years of age and older for Adderall, states that the dose does not usually exceed 40 mg daily. Concerta is not listed, as it is newer than my book. I saw a company chart comparing 18 mg concerta with 5 mg Ritalin taken three times a day. My guess is that there is some loss due to the special delivery capsule, and that otherwise you can do very rough dosing estimates by comparing 18 mg concerta to 15 mg Ritalin spread out over a day.  This is only my guess, though; no one who understands about it has told me anything like this.

That’s how our pediatrician explained it to us. — Light, Love, & Laughter, Kitten, Goddess of Mischief "Thousands of years ago, cats were worshipped as gods. Cats have never forgotten this." – Anonymous "Just for today, do not worry;  Just for today, do not anger; Earn your living honestly; Honor your parents, teachers and elders; Show gratitude for every living thing."- Dr. Mikao Usui

Response:

As a medic, I would recommend talking to her Dr first. PDR’s should be available at most libraries.

Concerta does not appear in our Libraries 2000 PDR and of course although I have to talk to her psychiatrist before we increase (ie to get a script) I was wondering if increasing the dose was an option. I don’t think she gets the kick (maybe poor choice of words) that she got from the Adderall. The Concerta is probably much slower and more gradual delivery and change in the blood level.

Response:

I saw a company chart comparing 18 mg concerta with 5 mg Ritalin taken three times a day. My guess is that there is some loss due to the special delivery capsule, and that otherwise you can do very rough dosing estimates by comparing 18 mg concerta to 15 mg Ritalin spread out over a day.  This is only my guess, though; no one who understands about it has told me anything like this. That’s how our pediatrician explained it to us.

I just had a thought, they have generic Ritalin SR, do they have it yet for Concerta?  Curious,            Norma        Norma   <Sigline space for rent

Response:

I got confused about the attributions here.  Sorry if I’m misquoting. I saw a company chart comparing 18 mg concerta with 5 mg Ritalin taken three times a day. My guess is that there is some loss due to the special delivery capsule, and that otherwise you can do very rough dosing estimates by comparing 18 mg concerta to 15 mg Ritalin spread out over a day.  This is only my guess, though; no one who understands about it has told me anything like this.

That’s how we’ve switched dosages here. Son went from 5mg Ritalin 3x/day to 5mg Adderall 2x/day (but really needing a 3rd dose too late to give it to him) to 18mg Concerta 1x/day. Daughter went from 20mg Ritalin-SR in the AM plus 10mg Ritalin regular in the PM (and still never being stable in the meds’ effects) to 10mg Adderall 2x/day (but really needing a third dose too late to give it to her) to 36mg Concerta 1x/day. That’s how our pediatrician explained it to us.

I just had a thought, they have generic Ritalin SR, do they have it yet for Concerta?

Well, the med in Concerta is methylphenidate HCl (a form of Ritalin), so it’s already a generic. The delivery system in the body is what is unique and what makes it so expensive. It’s called OROS and was developed by ALZA. It’s been used to deliver other medications for about 20 years, although it’s been enhanced for Concerta to give an intial "shot" of medication. I’m sure ALZA with hold on to the rights/patents for as long as they can. Here’s ALZA’s Concerta web site URL: http://www.concerta.net/index.htm Katswan

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I saw a company chart comparing 18 mg concerta with 5 mg Ritalin taken three times a day. My guess is that there is some loss due to the special delivery capsule, and that otherwise you can do very rough dosing estimates by comparing 18 mg concerta to 15 mg Ritalin spread out over a day.  This is only my guess, though; no one who understands about it has told me anything like this. That’s how our pediatrician explained it to us. I just had a thought, they have generic Ritalin SR, do they have it yet for Concerta?

No, it is brand new, less than one year old. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  Curious,            Norma        Norma   <Sigline space for rent

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just had a thought, they have generic Ritalin SR, do they have it yet for Concerta? <Christopher wrote No, it is brand new, less than one year old. (Curious again) How long does it take for a generic to be approved and shipping? I think only generics are approved for the type of insurance my daughter has, unless there is a good reason she has to take a brand name medication.

The patents have to expire first, and that takes a number of years. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –        Norma   <Sigline space for rent

Response:

Hello, I am going to my Doctor tomorrow, and he has expressed interest in trying Concerta. I have a question on this, however. I am an adult, 31 years old. I have been on 20mg (non-SR) Ritalin 3 times a day (60 mg total per day) for the past 5 years. Considering this, what dosage of Concerta should I be on? The 60 mg per day worked fine for me, but I dont see how that dose (per day) can be obtained from the size tablets being offered right now for Concerta (only 18mg or 36mg). I am at a total loss as to why there is no good indicators of what an adult should be taking for Concerta, if (s)he is coming from a regular release Ritalin dosage of 60mg per day? Taking 2 x 36mg. Concerta might be considered to be too high of a dose. There is a new 54mg coming out (I am wondering if it is out yet… possibly). But would this be enough for me? Also, I can find no literature that talks about how much (in mg) is released on the outside-coating ‘immediate release’ of Concerta tabs, and then, how much is released in each remaining layer (2 more layers), and at what time are they released? I went to Concerta.net, but cannot find any data that answers these questions. Can anyone provide some answers to these questions? Thanks. Chris

Response:

I am going to my Doctor tomorrow, and he has expressed interest in trying Concerta. I have a question on this, however. I am an adult, 31 years old. I have been on 20mg (non-CR) Ritalin 3 times a day (60 mg total per day) for the past 5 years. What dosage of Concerta should I be on? The 60 mg per day worked fine for me, but I dont see how that dose (per day) can be obtained from the size tablets being offered right now for Concerta (18 or 36mg).

From what our pediatrician told us about the conversion from Ritalin to Concerta, you would need 2 36mg caplets in the morning to receive the equivalent of your current 60mg/day of Ritalin.  (18mg Concerta = 15mg {3 5mg doses} Ritalin) I am at a total loss as to why there is no good indicators of what an adult should be taking for Concerta, if (s)he is coming from a regular release Ritalin dosage of 60mg per day? Taking 2 36mg. Concerta might be considered to be too high of a dose. There is a new 54mg coming out (maybe out now, possibly). But would this be enough?

With the conversion above, I don’t see how 2 36mg would be considered too high.  It’s an equivalent dosage to what you are currently taking. Also, I can find no literature that talks about how much (in mg) is released on the outside coating immediate release of Concerta tabs, and then, how much is released in each remaining layer (2 more layers), and at what time are they released? I went to Concerta.net, but cannot find any of this data. Can anyone provide some info on this?

I’ve a pdf on Concerta.  I’m not sure if it has the info you’re looking for, but if you’d like me to email it to you, let me know. — Light, Love, & Laughter, Kitten, Goddess of Mischief "Thousands of years ago, cats were worshipped as gods. Cats have never forgotten this." – Anonymous "Just for today, do not worry;  Just for today, do not anger; Earn your living honestly; Honor your parents, teachers and elders; Show gratitude for every living thing."- Dr. Mikao Usui

Response:

I just had a thought, they have generic Ritalin SR, do they have it yet for Concerta?

<Christopher wrote No, it is brand new, less than one year old.

(Curious again) How long does it take for a generic to be approved and shipping? I think only generics are approved for the type of insurance my daughter has, unless there is a good reason she has to take a brand name medication.        Norma   <Sigline space for rent

Response:

I am going to my Doctor tomorrow, and he has expressed interest in trying Concerta. I have a question on this, however. I am an adult, 31 years old. I have been on 20mg (non-CR) Ritalin 3 times a day (60 mg total per day) for the past 5 years. What dosage of Concerta should I be on? The 60 mg per day worked fine for me, but I dont see how that dose (per day) can be obtained from the size tablets being offered right now for Concerta (18 or 36mg). I am at a total loss as to why there is no good indicators of what an adult should be taking for Concerta, if (s)he is coming from a regular release Ritalin dosage of 60mg per day? Taking 2 36mg. Concerta might be considered to be too high of a dose. There is a new 54mg coming out (maybe out now, possibly). But would this be enough? Also, I can find no literature that talks about how much (in mg) is released on the outside coating immediate release of Concerta tabs, and then, how much is released in each remaining layer (2 more layers), and at what time are they released? I went to Concerta.net, but cannot find any of this data. Can anyone provide some info on this? Thanks. Chris

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just had a thought, they have generic Ritalin SR, do they have it yet for Concerta? Well, the med in Concerta is methylphenidate HCl (a form of Ritalin), so it’s already a generic. The delivery system in the body is what is unique and what makes it so expensive. It’s called OROS and was developed by ALZA. It’s been used to deliver other medications for about 20 years, although it’s been enhanced for Concerta to give an intial "shot" of medication. I’m sure ALZA with hold on to the rights/patents for as long as they can. Here’s ALZA’s Concerta web site URL: http://www.concerta.net/index.htm Katswan

Thanks for the info.        Norma   <Sigline space for rent

Response:

Anyone know of a free online PDR reference for Concerta and Adderall? We are at 56 mg/day on a 14yr old and wonder if we have the option of increasing or possibly we may end up going back to the Adderall and try to figure out a better way of managing its level

Response:

Anyone know of a free online PDR reference for Concerta and Adderall? We are at 56 mg/day on a 14yr old and wonder if we have the option of increasing or possibly we may end up going back to the Adderall and try to figure out a better way of managing its level

Have you talked to her doctor?   Nessa — Life’s a dance. You learn as you go. Sometimes you lead, sometimes you follow Don’t worry ’bout what you don’t know, life’s a dance you learn as you go!

Response:

Anyone know of a free online PDR reference for Concerta and Adderall? We are at 56 mg/day on a 14yr old and wonder if we have the option of increasing or possibly we may end up going back to the Adderall and try to figure out a better way of managing its level

As a medic, I would recommend talking to her Dr first. PDR’s should be available at most libraries. While my USP DI is a bit old (1996, they ain’t cheap), the usual pediatric dose for 6 years of age and older for Adderall, states that the dose does not usually exceed 40 mg daily. Concerta is not listed, as it is newer than my book. The dosage info for Adderal is backed by the PDR info at: http://www.healthsquare.com/drugmain.htm You should also be able to find the info on Concerta there. Chewy — Kitten’s Main Squeeze We live in a technological society that creates many illusions of reality…it’s the most irresponsible behaving entity that ever lived on this planet.  This civilization is not about responsibility, it’s about guilt, sin, blame and aggressive bad behavior.  That is the shadow world… The real world is about fulfilling our responsibility to life. — John Trudell

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone know of a free online PDR reference for Concerta and Adderall? We are at 56 mg/day on a 14yr old and wonder if we have the option of increasing or possibly we may end up going back to the Adderall and try to figure out a better way of managing its level As a medic, I would recommend talking to her Dr first. PDR’s should be available at most libraries. While my USP DI is a bit old (1996, they ain’t cheap), the usual pediatric dose for 6 years of age and older for Adderall, states that the dose does not usually exceed 40 mg daily. Concerta is not listed, as it is newer than my book.

I saw a company chart comparing 18 mg concerta with 5 mg Ritalin taken three times a day. My guess is that there is some loss due to the special delivery capsule, and that otherwise you can do very rough dosing estimates by comparing 18 mg concerta to 15 mg Ritalin spread out over a day.  This is only my guess, though; no one who understands about it has told me anything like this. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The dosage info for Adderal is backed by the PDR info at: http://www.healthsquare.com/drugmain.htm You should also be able to find the info on Concerta there. Chewy — Kitten’s Main Squeeze We live in a technological society that creates many illusions of reality…it’s the most irresponsible behaving entity that ever lived on this planet.  This civilization is not about responsibility, it’s about guilt, sin, blame and aggressive bad behavior.  That is the shadow world… The real world is about fulfilling our responsibility to life. — John Trudell

Response:

Question:

"Ben Johnson" <web…@hotmail.com

wrote in message

news:3fdfbd24$1@duster.adelaide.on.net…

So lighten up a bit – it’s supposed to be a happy time of year!

Hello Ben, If you were following what Doug with the moral support of Meryl has been doing to me you would not feel so light hearted and bright. This is by no means a happy time of the year when rows break out in homes all over the world due to pent up unresolved conflicts that were happening during the year and possibly dating back long before that. Threads develop in their own way and I don’t think anyone can claim ownership of a thread. In my case my brother who is 46 has a 2 year old daughter and has a highly paid job working for a multi national here in Dublin is already causing me headaches a full two weeks ahead of Christmas day itself.  I’m stuck here living with my uncompromisingly cruel parents. My brorther telephoned the house last Friday morning inviting my parents and me to his house for Christmas dinner. The so and so didn’t ask me, a 50 year old adult male, whether I wanted to go to his house for Chritmas dinner. The fact is I was looking foward to eating some Christmas fare alone here where I live but now my parents will not cook as they have always done for themselves on Christmas day. I eat what remains of the cooked food. I will spend some part of Christmas day totally alone while my brother, his wife, his adorable little daughter, and my parents enjoy each other’s company. I am not welcome in his house during the the rest of the year and I’m not welcome in his house on Christmas day either. As far as discussing drugs and their effects in a newsgroup like this I must point out, as I took pains to point out before, that the clinical trials where drugs are tested for their effect and safety are carried out, as demanded by the regulatory authorities in the different countries, by highly trained doctors who have at least one university degree including years of training in this specialised discipline. Not only are these people highly trained professionals they probably also have a natural flair for the making the kind of observations that they will need to make during the trials. It is pure folly and very dangerous to post questions to a newsgroup like this asking for advice about drugs. No one, absolutely no one in this group or any similar group who does not at the very least have a medical degree is entitled to give advice about these dangerous poisons collectively known today as drugs. If you want advice about a drug then the only logical thing to do is to ask one or a few experienced psychiatrists who dispense drugs and who have feedback from their patients and if they are good doctors the results of the clinical trials as well on any given drug. Even then one cannot be completely at ease given that many doctors worry including one campaigner called Dr. David Healy who is now based in Wales and who was interviewed just the other day on one of BBC1’s main news  bulletins about the so called SSRI’s and the dangers that exist surrounding their use. Anyone who swallows the hype that SSRI’s really do affect the levels of serotonin in the brain and that this is the mechanism that induces therapeutic benefits is an idiot. I saw an experienced psychiatrist recently who is learning more about me and who prescribed Seroxat/Paxil(paroxetine) has my trust but even then I will not take the drug knowing as I do that the what will cure me of this crippling disorder will be a scheme that I will figure out based on what I understand about how I am affected. I advise you to contact Doug to ask him to send you the nasty things he has written about me and how Meryl came to Doug’s aid when it suddenly became clear to her that Doug had been exposed for the nasty so and so he really is. I would like to compliment you for the nice tone you conveyed in your message to me. This is why I have taken time out to write to you. I still maintain that Doug has created an atmosphere of fear in the group and if you care to perform a perfunctory check on the posting rate over the last while you will see that the group appears to be disintegrating maintaining as I do that people are just too frightened to post in this climate of fear and hostility. Don’t forget to do what I asked you to do which is to ask Doug to send you all the evil dribble he has written about me. He appears to be a foremost expert compiling files on people and based on his past shameful performance here in what is supposed to be a support group, a sanctuary in cyberspace for us, a place where people used to be able to post to get support, he will have no difficuly at all providing you with volumes of material for you to read so that you can put things into their proper and correct context. If you can find a thread I wrote called "Mirror Neurons and Social Phobia" that I posted some time ago you will be able to read up about what I understand about Social Phobia. Understanding this affliction is a prerequisite step to finding a cure. The contents of this thoughtful post are what Doug got so worked up about. You can judge for yourself whether Doug or I have the most to offer this little group. No one in this group is going to recover using drugs alone and drugs will never fix the problem. Anyone can describe their experiences using some drug but no matter how well you understand the effect a particulrar drug is having on you you cannot pass on this information to others in the form that it will be helpful to them since everybody is different and everybody’s reaction to some drug will be different depending as it does on wat may be actually happening to you at any given time. If for example one had a scary interaction with a member of the usually dangerous public that interaction may have a dramatic effect for say 24 hours or longer depending on how the drug you are taking affects you. I’m so sad that the group is no longer functioning the way it used to because even though I am immeasurably better off today compared to when I first started posting around the middle of December 2001 I probably got great benefit from posting messages and joining in threads that interested me. I don’t need the group to the extent that I used to and I probaly don’t need  the group at all now. This is a measure of the benefits of thinking through something even if I’m convinced that the the therapy that will facilitate a cure will not be a drug and neither will it be CBT. If the happy day comes when I am free of Social Phobia I will return to the group to tell you what strategies I have been working on. Until that time my hands are tied for obvious reasons. I repeat this is not a happy time of the year for adults and as far as I know the suicide rate increases shortly after Christmas and for a period after the New Year. It’s a hppy time indeed for some kids but that’s about it. Many people like to deceive themselves but I prefer to live under the potentially cold light of reality. At least I can see what is really going on and this gives me some peace of mind. People deceive themselves about a myriad of things with devastating consequences for all of us in the long term whem the effort to maintain the deception becomes overpowering and when we finally buckle under the strain of living with all the lies people tell themselves and others for the sake of an living in what appears to be on the surface a more beautiful world. We have nothing to fear about the truth. Besides with TV and the global satellite communcations suystem we are all able to come closer to each other more safely as we see at long last that the rantings of philosophers and religious is all about control by domininating the general population using fear forcing us to live by insane rules, like for example the Ten Commandments, that apply in whole to not one single person alive. The future is bright and like I’ve suggested before our biggest concern is the stability of our weather. If we can keep moving foward the way we are doing today the future will be fantastic and that means our future will be great as well. Peter Nolan.

Response:

Have been seeing a psychiatrist for my Social Phobia / Depression since 2000 and have been on antidepressants since that time.   Zoloft 200mg/day for 2 years, and since then Efexor XR 150mg/day. I’ve cancelled my last appointments with him as I’m not interested / can’t be bothered to see him anymore – he just seems to be interested in prescribing drugs rather than fixing my problems. Zoloft seemed to work from about the 4th to 8th month point – but stopped working a couple of months after. Since then I’ve felt "flat" ever since and the Efexor hasn’t helped either. I have about 8 weeks of meds left. I’m worried about how to ease myself off these drugs. I know when I go without my Efexor for a couple of days I get quite bad mood-swings and it can be a little scary. Please help with some advice. Thanks, Ben

Response:

I came off Effexor recently, after only 75 mg/day for seven weeks.  My doc’s instructions were to take 37.5 mg daily for a week, then 37.5 mg every other day for 2 more weeks, then discontinue.  Those three weeks

were

a cakewalk, but were followed by 3-4 weeks of tachycardia, which my doc insists was an extremely atypical discontinuance reaction. Sorry I can’t help with the Zoloft.

Figaro, It is Efexor I’m coming off (had been on Zoloft previous). I have the 150mg slow-release capsules (they’re full of little white balls). So I guess if I want to half the dosage it’s a case of emptying out a capsule down the sink and filling the empty shell with half the contents from another capsule.  That effectively gives me 2 x 75mg capsules – right ? Anyone else on these slow-release capsules?  Do you find they don’t digest properly? BJ

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Ben Johnson wrote:

Have been seeing a psychiatrist for my Social Phobia / Depression since 2000 and have been on antidepressants since that time.   Zoloft 200mg/day for 2 years, and since then Efexor XR 150mg/day. I’ve cancelled my last appointments with him as I’m not interested / can’t be bothered to see him anymore – he just seems to be interested in prescribing drugs rather than fixing my problems. Zoloft seemed to work from about the 4th to 8th month point – but stopped working a couple of months after. Since then I’ve felt "flat" ever since and the Efexor hasn’t helped either. I have about 8 weeks of meds left. I’m worried about how to ease myself off these drugs. I know when I go without my Efexor for a couple of days I get quite bad mood-swings and it can be a little scary. Please help with some advice.

normally you just lower the dose slowly for a few weeks and then just stop. Stopping drugs like that suddenly can cause complications. If you have to break the tablets in two to get a smaller dose. BTW to come of benzo diazeprams it can take up to a month to lower the dosage before you stop. Richard

Response:

On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 11:32:15 +1100, "Ben Johnson" <web…@hotmail.com

wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Have been seeing a psychiatrist for my Social Phobia / Depression since 2000 and have been on antidepressants since that time.   Zoloft 200mg/day for 2 years, and since then Efexor XR 150mg/day. I’ve cancelled my last appointments with him as I’m not interested / can’t be bothered to see him anymore – he just seems to be interested in prescribing drugs rather than fixing my problems. Zoloft seemed to work from about the 4th to 8th month point – but stopped working a couple of months after. Since then I’ve felt "flat" ever since and the Efexor hasn’t helped either. I have about 8 weeks of meds left. I’m worried about how to ease myself off these drugs. I know when I go without my Efexor for a couple of days I get quite bad mood-swings and it can be a little scary. Please help with some advice. Thanks, Ben

Hi Ben, I have recently withdrawn from Effexor XR under medical supervision. It was not easy. I was at 300 mg. My dose was lowered by 75 mg each time. If you are not on XR you may be able to taper at a smaller increment. I had extra Xanax to help with the withdrawal. I had 4 to 5 days between tapers. The first 2 days were the most difficult, symptom-wise. Being able to space the tapers apart further might be easier. My depression returned big time by the time I was at 75 mg per day and then 75 mg alternate days. It was not fun. The reason for my taper was that I was having adverse side effects to Effexor XR at 300mg and it was losing its efficacy. I switched reasonably quickly and I am now taking Lexapro. I find it is working well. I strongly advise you to seek help from your doctor and maybe look at alternative medications. love Meryl

Response:

On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 15:49:43 +1100, "Ben Johnson" <web…@hotmail.com

wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

I came off Effexor recently, after only 75 mg/day for seven weeks.  My doc’s instructions were to take 37.5 mg daily for a week, then 37.5 mg every other day for 2 more weeks, then discontinue.  Those three weeks were a cakewalk, but were followed by 3-4 weeks of tachycardia, which my doc insists was an extremely atypical discontinuance reaction. Sorry I can’t help with the Zoloft. Figaro, It is Efexor I’m coming off (had been on Zoloft previous). I have the 150mg slow-release capsules (they’re full of little white balls). So I guess if I want to half the dosage it’s a case of emptying out a capsule down the sink and filling the empty shell with half the contents from another capsule.  That effectively gives me 2 x 75mg capsules – right ?

This does not sound a good idea. I believe it is very difficult to get an accurate dosage that way. You may be able to get Effexor tablets at 37.5mg. Effexor XR also comes in 75 mg capsules.

Anyone else on these slow-release capsules?  Do you find they don’t digest properly?

I had no problem with digesting the capsules but then I can swallow/digest medication with little difficulty. . Effexor worked well for me for many years. Meryl

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 04:55:02 GMT, Richard James <u…@err.com

wrote: Ben Johnson wrote: Have been seeing a psychiatrist for my Social Phobia / Depression since 2000 and have been on antidepressants since that time.   Zoloft 200mg/day for 2 years, and since then Efexor XR 150mg/day. I’ve cancelled my last appointments with him as I’m not interested / can’t be bothered to see him anymore – he just seems to be interested in prescribing drugs rather than fixing my problems. Zoloft seemed to work from about the 4th to 8th month point – but stopped working a couple of months after. Since then I’ve felt "flat" ever since and the Efexor hasn’t helped either. I have about 8 weeks of meds left. I’m worried about how to ease myself off these drugs. I know when I go without my Efexor for a couple of days I get quite bad mood-swings and it can be a little scary. Please help with some advice. normally you just lower the dose slowly for a few weeks and then just stop. Stopping drugs like that suddenly can cause complications. If you have to break the tablets in two to get a smaller dose. BTW to come of benzo diazeprams it can take up to a month to lower the dosage before you stop. Richard

Hi Richard, Ben is talking about XR capsules of a SNRI. It is not possible to break them in two to halve the dose. Meryl

Response:

On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 11:32:15 +1100, "Ben Johnson" <web…@hotmail.com

wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Have been seeing a psychiatrist for my Social Phobia / Depression since 2000 and have been on antidepressants since that time.   Zoloft 200mg/day for 2 years, and since then Efexor XR 150mg/day. I’ve cancelled my last appointments with him as I’m not interested / can’t be bothered to see him anymore – he just seems to be interested in prescribing drugs rather than fixing my problems. Zoloft seemed to work from about the 4th to 8th month point – but stopped working a couple of months after. Since then I’ve felt "flat" ever since and the Efexor hasn’t helped either. I have about 8 weeks of meds left. I’m worried about how to ease myself off these drugs. I know when I go without my Efexor for a couple of days I get quite bad mood-swings and it can be a little scary. Please help with some advice. Thanks, Ben

From RXlist.com Discontinuing Venlafaxine Hydrochloride Immediate Release Tablets: When discontinuing venlafaxine HCl after more than 1 week of therapy, it is generally recommended that the dose be tapered to minimize the risk of discontinuation symptoms. Patients who have received venlafaxine HCl for 6 weeks or more should have their dose tapered gradually over a 2-week period. Extended Release Capsules: When discontinuing venlafaxine HCl (extended release) after more than 1 week of therapy, it is generally recommended that the dose be tapered to minimize the risk of discontinuation symptoms. In clinical trials with venlafaxine HCl (extended release), tapering was achieved by reducing the daily dose by 75 mg at 1 week intervals. Individualization of tapering may be necessary. While the discontinuation effects of venlafaxine HCl (extended release) have not been systematically evaluated in controlled clinical trials, a retrospective survey of new events occurring during taper or following discontinuation revealed the following six events that occurred at an incidence of at least 3% and for which the incidence for venlafaxine HCl (extended release) was at least twice the placebo incidence: dizziness, dry mouth, insomnia, nausea, nervousness, and sweating.

Response:

Meryl  <mapr…@ozemail.com.au

writes: On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 15:49:43 +1100, "Ben Johnson" <web…@hotmail.com wrote: I have the 150mg slow-release capsules (they’re full of little white balls). So I guess if I want to half the dosage it’s a case of emptying out a capsule down the sink and filling the empty shell with half the contents from another capsule.  That effectively gives me 2 x 75mg capsules – right ? This does not sound a good idea. I believe it is very difficult to get an accurate dosage that way.

Could be, but I’d think that taking half the contents of a capsule one day and half the next would give a more constant concentration in the body (and thus less chance of withdrawal effects) than taking a whole capsule every 2 days.

You may be able to get Effexor tablets at 37.5mg.

They exist, but taking one 75mg modified release capsule each day would give a more constant concentration than taking two 37.5mg immediate release tablets each day. Some ADs are available as a liquid, to make it easier to tweak dosage, but venlafaxine doesn’t seem to be one of them.

Effexor XR also comes in 75 mg capsules.

And 37.5mg capsules in the US (but not in the UK [sigh]). I halved my 75mg/day for a fortnight by putting half of each 75mg capsule in some empty capsules (which I happened to have lying around!). I expect Ben could do away with the capsules if he could swallow the little balls, and not have them get stuck between his teeth. Wyeth say (in the prescribing info) that if one can’t swallow a capsule, it’s OK to mix the contents with a teaspoonful of applesauce(!) and swallow that. Here’s my experience of stopping venlafaxine, for what it’s worth. I was on 75mg of the modified release stuff for 7 months up until 3 weeks ago when I stopped it cold (on my GPs suggestion… which seemed iffy, but I was so fed up with feeling dopey most of the time that I was beyond caring). Things I’ve noticed: . For the first couple of weeks, when my field of vision changed suddenly, I’d hear squelching noises for a second or 2. . For the first couple of weeks, I’d cry ‘at the drop of a hat’, which was odd cos I usually wasn’t feeling particularly sad. . I was going to say I’ve had slight diarrhoea since I stopped, but it’s probably more accurate to say that the constipation I’ve had for years and years has stopped! . I’ve stopped gaining weight. (I gained 25lbs over the 7 months.) . I’m more energetic, but still dopey. The latter doesn’t surprise me, though, cos I’ve gone from sleeping a total of 8 hours a day (in short bursts) to sleeping an average of 5 hours a day (in 1 burst). This is frustrating. I’ve lost 2 years of university study due to dopiness which I attribute to meds. If I’m still dopey when my next course starts (February), I will *not* be a happy bunny!

Anyone else on these slow-release capsules?  Do you find they don’t digest properly?

I never had a problem with digesting the capsules.

Response:

I keep thinking lately "I just don’t know anymore…" i.e. I just don’t know if the drugs are doing anything.   I haven’t had many SP symptoms for a couple of years now – but then again, I’m just too tired to be bothered to get out-and-about to put myself into situations where I’d get SP. I don’t think it’s avoidance.   If it is avoidance – it’s not a conscious thought-out avoidance like what I used to do.  These days it’s more a "can’t be bothered" attitude – which might be depression, might be chronic fatigue, might be because I smoke pot sometimes. BJ "Doug D." <gdd…@aug.com

wrote in message

news:uvkntv0si82ghnabgsm7ev26aoi5tvulq1@4ax.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 11:32:15 +1100, "Ben Johnson" <web…@hotmail.com wrote: Have been seeing a psychiatrist for my Social Phobia / Depression since

2000

and have been on antidepressants since that time.   Zoloft 200mg/day for

2

years, and since then Efexor XR 150mg/day. I’ve cancelled my last appointments with him as I’m not interested /

can’t

be bothered to see him anymore – he just seems to be interested in prescribing drugs rather than fixing my problems. Zoloft seemed to work from about the 4th to 8th month point – but stopped working a couple of months after. Since then I’ve felt "flat" ever since

and

the Efexor hasn’t helped either. I have about 8 weeks of meds left. I’m worried about how to ease myself off these drugs. I know when I go without my Efexor for a couple of days I get quite bad mood-swings and it can be a little scary. Please help with some advice. Thanks, Ben Hi Ben, I took Effexor for approximately a year and it worked similarly to Paxil, an ssri anti depressant, which is to say it helped to reduced my anxiety, but it couldn’t stop bouts of high anxiety or situational panic attacks.  It eventually pooped out and I ended up dropping it for another AD at that time.  I would recommend that you wean off this drug slowly, just as you would an ssri anti depressant.  This means gradually decreasing your dosage over at least a several week period. This lessens withdrawal and its side effects.  Last, but not least, talk to your doctor, if not the shrink, then your GP and get his input re. tapering off Effexor.  Whatever you do, don’t just stop taking it altogether because the side effects can be quite uncomfortable.  Best wishes. Doug D.

Response:

Thanks Meryl and everyone else.   Meryl – I see you are in Oz – and so am I. I agree with what you say about our public health system here – especially in NSW. I like the apple sauce idea.   Also much less wasteful than emptying every 2nd capsule down the sink! I think I should try to get the motivation to see the doc and do all this properly.  I’ll need a new referral to get back to the psych – it’s all such a hassel and I just feel so constantly drained of energy.  I just can’t be bothered with it all. And when I do get back to the psych he’s probably going to hassle me about why I cancelled my last appointments, etc.. etc.. etc.. "Meryl" <mapr…@ozemail.com.au

wrote in message

news:92ultvsiji4kdopphh86409g3bvmmfaq6m@4ax.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

On 13 Dec 2003 10:32:15 +0000, Bruce Mardle <br…@algol.demon.co.uk wrote: Meryl  <mapr…@ozemail.com.au writes: On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 15:49:43 +1100, "Ben Johnson" <web…@hotmail.com wrote: I have the 150mg slow-release capsules (they’re full of little white

balls).

So I guess if I want to half the dosage it’s a case of emptying out a capsule down the sink and filling the empty shell with half the

contents

from another capsule.  That effectively gives me 2 x 75mg capsules –

right ?

This does not sound a good idea. I believe it is very difficult to get an accurate dosage that way. Could be, but I’d think that taking half the contents of a capsule one day and half the next would give a more constant concentration in the body (and thus less chance of withdrawal effects) than taking a whole capsule every 2 days. OK. Given what you have written later. I have heard of capsules being opened and mixed in juice but I have no experience of that. You may be able to get Effexor tablets at 37.5mg. They exist, but taking one 75mg modified release capsule each day would give a more constant concentration than taking two 37.5mg immediate release tablets each day. Some ADs are available as a liquid, to make it easier to tweak dosage, but venlafaxine doesn’t seem to be one of them. Effexor XR also comes in 75 mg capsules. And 37.5mg capsules in the US (but not in the UK [sigh]). I am in Oz. I’m not sure we have 37.5. I did take 75 XR alternate days. It was not fun.  I halved my 75mg/day for a fortnight by putting half of each 75mg capsule in some empty capsules (which I happened to have lying around!). I expect Ben could do away with the capsules if he could swallow the little balls, and not have them get stuck between his teeth. Wyeth say (in the prescribing info) that if one can’t swallow a capsule, it’s OK to mix the contents with a teaspoonful of applesauce(!) and swallow that. Sounds like a plan. Here’s my experience of stopping venlafaxine, for what it’s worth. I was on 75mg of the modified release stuff for 7 months up until 3 weeks ago when I stopped it cold (on my GPs suggestion… which seemed iffy, but I was so fed up with feeling dopey most of the time that I was beyond caring). Things I’ve noticed: . For the first couple of weeks, when my field of vision changed suddenly, I’d hear squelching noises for a second or 2. . For the first couple of weeks, I’d cry ‘at the drop of a hat’, which was odd cos I usually wasn’t feeling particularly sad. Was it depression? When that happens with me it is normally an indicator of depression. . I was going to say I’ve had slight diarrhoea since I stopped, but it’s probably more accurate to say that the constipation I’ve had for years and years has stopped! I had lots of gastric problems, still have weeks later but I suspect that Lexapro might be a factor. I deal with the symptoms and I am grateful that my depression is alleviated. . I’ve stopped gaining weight. (I gained 25lbs over the 7 months.) Effexor worked well for me for years. It did not affect my weight just returned my mood to normal. . I’m more energetic, but still dopey. The latter doesn’t surprise me, though, cos I’ve gone from sleeping a total of 8 hours a day (in short bursts) to sleeping an average of 5 hours a day (in 1 burst). This is frustrating. I’ve lost 2 years of university study due to dopiness which I attribute to meds. If I’m still dopey when my next course starts (February), I will *not* be a happy bunny! Effexor can affect sleep. I had insomnia at first but it passed. Anyone else on these slow-release capsules?  Do you find they don’t

digest

properly? I never had a problem with digesting the capsules. I guess I responded as I did because I have dreadful memories of going through withdrawal cold turkey from 150 mg to 0. I had been admitted to hospital and was on nil by mouth. Thankfully they relented and allowed me a capsule after 60 hours. I was on IV Diazepam at the time. All the best, Meryl

Response:

On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 11:19:24 -0000, "Peter  Nolan" <nos…@nospam.com

wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->"Meryl" <mapr…@ozemail.com.au> wrote in message >news:onultvoa745lc6v2l4rf9cncvk7pa7sstd@4ax.com… >> On Sat, 13 Dec 2003 10:54:13 -0000, "Peter  Nolan" <nos…@nospam.com

>> wrote: >> >"Meryl" <mapr…@ozemail.com.au> wrote in message >> >news:ckdktvgei03hhs43p6kv1cc8107aomskd5@4ax.com… >> >Hello Meryl, >> >I see you are still flying the flag for Doug in our group. >> I speak for myself. >> >You have Panic Disorder by your own admission and do not belong in this >> >group. >> and depression and agoraphobia. I came here to learn about social >> phobia so I could bring more understanding to my relationship. I did >> ask posters if they objected. I don’t recall you objecting until now. >> >You do not suffer from Social Phobia and therefore have no idea what you >are >> >talking about. >> I was talking about tapering from Effexor. I know much about that. I >> was taking it for 5 years. >> >You are not entitled to advise us on anything concerning Social Phobia >> >whether it’s about drugs or any other aspect of our crippling disorder. >> Could you explain why my posting upsets you so much? >> >Do us all a favour by subcribing to a group about Panic Disorder like >> >alt.support.anxiety-panic. >> I do and ASAPM. >> >Leave us alone. It’s bad enough suffering from Social Phobia without an >> >asshole like you with a filthy agenda messing us up passing off as >someone >> >who can help us here in alt.support.social-phobia. >> Would you like to talk about what you see as my agenda? I am >> interested, really. >> >Go somewhere else where you can gloat about others less fortunate than >> >yourself. >> I am sorry if you perceive me as gloating. I am not sure why. >> >I’m sick and tired of you popping up here on a regular basis because that >> >evil cocksucker, Doug, has finally figured out he serves no useful >purpose >> >in assp where he tries to pass himself off as a qualified pharmacist or >even >> >a psychiatrist. >> Believe me, Doug is not a pharmacist, nor a psychiatrist. However he >> does have SP, hence my appearance here to learn more about the >> disorder. >> >In other words, kiss your ass and swallow! >> I don’t think I have mentioned that I have a chronic back problem. I >> think such a contortion is beyond me. >Hello Meryl, >You must think that we are a bunch of soft headed morons. >I don’t believe a single word word you say. Leave our group. You do not >belong here. You made your entrance when you told us what a kind loving man >Doug was. We now know otherwise. That is when you should have left. >Doug has destroyed our group when it became obvious to him that he could no >longer play the role of father figure to the group dominating and infecting >the group by trying to write in a calm measured way when there was a almost >uncontrollable rage seething inside him something we have all seen now in >him at long last. >The group barely functions now because the younger members of the group are >just too frightened to post the way they used to. I had to leave the group >because of Doug’s first attack on me and I was about to leave the group for >the second and last time when John Jay came to the rescue. When I returned >to the group for the second time hoping that I could post without feeling >fear Doug, this evil piece of shit, waited for just the right moment to >attack me for a second time. >Since he can no longer enjoy the feeling that he is the group’s wise old man >seeing himself a someone in his middle 50’s who has survived till now the >ravages of Social Phobia he set about creating so much fear in us, people >who already live in a constant state of fear, that he has single handedly >destroyed our group to the point where we are lucky if thre is even just one >post per day. This group is a sanctuary for the relatively small number of >people in the group who have really nowhere else to go. It was a precious >resource that I valued greatly. Now if things continue the way they are >going Usenet will close the group altogether and the great all knowing one, >Doug,  will be to blame for this. >I was 50 last July and as I took pains to explain to the younger members of >the group there is really nothing special about the way I write. The ability >to write is something that develops with age and all of the younger members >of the group will find that this is true when they get older. So they are >easily intimidated by the words of older people who don’t know that they >have nothing to be afraid of even if what Doug writes fills them with a >feeling of dread and foreboding. >I curse Doug for doing what he did to me and what he has done to this group. >If you want to learn about Social Phobia this is not the place to do it and >if you think I will accept that you are hear to learn more about Social >Phobia then you must think I’m the biggest fool you have ever come across. >I see Doug has posted a message below this and if this piece of shit thinks >I will read it then he too thinks I am a complete idiot. >I expect Usenet will close terminate the group soon if things don’t pick up >and trhe younger members of the group find the couage to start posting >again. I have encouraged everyone many times to post and not be afraid but >now thanks to Doug the level of fear is just too high. >Go away. You have nothing whatsoever to offer to this dying group. >Peter Nolan

Hi Peter, I wonder if you hostility towards me has been triggered by the fact that there were several days recently when there were few, if any, posts. It is your right to believe or disbelieve as you see fit. I am a little older than you and I have suffered many years of real life emotional abuse. This may or may not be a factor in the development of my anxiety. For me, I finding it more helpful to let go of the past and try to move on. I also believe that anger is a wasted emotion. YMMV, Meryl

Response:

Peter, I’m a former "regular" of this group but this is my first time back since 1999. One thing we used to talk about back then was that the medical profession liked to use labels as a convenient way to categorize patients – when in fact many of us who had been classed as having X, Y, or Z were all reporting similar symptoms to varying degrees. In otherwords – there’s a lot of cross-over between different conditions and it’s probably likely that each individual has their own mix of symptoms to varying degrees (no 2 of us are identical in our psych make-up and symptoms). I think people like Meryl can offer assistance.  In this case she is from the same country as I am, and she has experience with the same drug and it’s side-effects.  So regardless whether she’s classed as "Panic Disorder" and I’m classed as "Social Anxeity Disorder" I think it’s still possible we can learn from each other’s experiences with the same drug – particularly if we share some of the common underlying conditions. I’m not up with all the recent history of this group – but ultimately this was my topic-thread and I appreciated everybody’s input – including Meryl’s and Doug’s.  If I think somebody’s trying to stear me the wrong way for whatever reason I’m quite capable of handling it. So lighten up a bit – it’s supposed to be a happy time of year! Ben "Peter Nolan" <nos…@nospam.com

wrote in message

news:sdCCb.554$HR.1997@news.indigo.ie… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Meryl" <mapr…@ozemail.com.au

wrote in message

> news:ckdktvgei03hhs43p6kv1cc8107aomskd5@4ax.com… > Hello Meryl, > I see you are still flying the flag for Doug in our group. > You have Panic Disorder by your own admission and do not belong in this > group. > You do not suffer from Social Phobia and therefore have no idea what you are

talking about. You are not entitled to advise us on anything concerning Social Phobia whether it’s about drugs or any other aspect of our crippling disorder. Do us all a favour by subcribing to a group about Panic Disorder like alt.support.anxiety-panic. Leave us alone. It’s bad enough suffering from Social Phobia without an asshole like you with a filthy agenda messing us up passing off as someone who can help us here in alt.support.social-phobia. Go somewhere else where you can gloat about others less fortunate than yourself. I’m sick and tired of you popping up here on a regular basis because that evil cocksucker, Doug, has finally figured out he serves no useful purpose in assp where he tries to pass himself off as a qualified pharmacist or

even

a psychiatrist. In other words, kiss your ass and swallow! Peter Nolan.

Response:

Peter, I’m not sure what’s come over you.  I haven’t spoken to you in weeks, yet you’re on a rampage.  Are you well?  You certainly don’t sound like you’re firing on all cylinders.  Without implying that you have anything other than social anxiety disorder, you may want to give strong consideration to seeing a qualified psychiatrist/psychologist to determine if you have other issues that you may not be aware of. There’s no question that extreme, unprovoked anger is a major problem with you right now, but perhaps this is a warning sign or symptom of some underlying, unknown illness(s).  Again, I don’t know that, nor am I implying that you are plagued by anything other than sp.  With one exception.  You’ve developed perhaps the worst case of gutter mouth that I’ve seen on Usenet for a long, long while.  Wherever did you get the idea that vulgarity constitutes good writing style. Incidentally, if you’re going to keep this tirade up, it would undoubtedly be best if you considered leaving Usenet, at least until you cool off.  If any one person is likely to damage the group, it’s certainly you more so than me. Doug D. On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 11:19:24 -0000, "Peter  Nolan" <nos…@nospam.com

wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->"Meryl" <mapr…@ozemail.com.au> wrote in message >news:onultvoa745lc6v2l4rf9cncvk7pa7sstd@4ax.com… >> On Sat, 13 Dec 2003 10:54:13 -0000, "Peter  Nolan" <nos…@nospam.com

>> wrote: >> >"Meryl" <mapr…@ozemail.com.au> wrote in message >> >news:ckdktvgei03hhs43p6kv1cc8107aomskd5@4ax.com… >> >Hello Meryl, >> >I see you are still flying the flag for Doug in our group. >> I speak for myself. >> >You have Panic Disorder by your own admission and do not belong in this >> >group. >> and depression and agoraphobia. I came here to learn about social >> phobia so I could bring more understanding to my relationship. I did >> ask posters if they objected. I don’t recall you objecting until now. >> >You do not suffer from Social Phobia and therefore have no idea what you >are >> >talking about. >> I was talking about tapering from Effexor. I know much about that. I >> was taking it for 5 years. >> >You are not entitled to advise us on anything concerning Social Phobia >> >whether it’s about drugs or any other aspect of our crippling disorder. >> Could you explain why my posting upsets you so much? >> >Do us all a favour by subcribing to a group about Panic Disorder like >> >alt.support.anxiety-panic. >> I do and ASAPM. >> >Leave us alone. It’s bad enough suffering from Social Phobia without an >> >asshole like you with a filthy agenda messing us up passing off as >someone >> >who can help us here in alt.support.social-phobia. >> Would you like to talk about what you see as my agenda? I am >> interested, really. >> >Go somewhere else where you can gloat about others less fortunate than >> >yourself. >> I am sorry if you perceive me as gloating. I am not sure why. >> >I’m sick and tired of you popping up here on a regular basis because that >> >evil cocksucker, Doug, has finally figured out he serves no useful >purpose >> >in assp where he tries to pass himself off as a qualified pharmacist or >even >> >a psychiatrist. >> Believe me, Doug is not a pharmacist, nor a psychiatrist. However he >> does have SP, hence my appearance here to learn more about the >> disorder. >> >In other words, kiss your ass and swallow! >> I don’t think I have mentioned that I have a chronic back problem. I >> think such a contortion is beyond me. >Hello Meryl, >You must think that we are a bunch of soft headed morons. >I don’t believe a single word word you say. Leave our group. You do not >belong here. You made your entrance when you told us what a kind loving man >Doug was. We now know otherwise. That is when you should have left. >Doug has destroyed our group when it became obvious to him that he could no >longer play the role of father figure to the group dominating and infecting >the group by trying to write in a calm measured way when there was a almost >uncontrollable rage seething inside him something we have all seen now in >him at long last. >The group barely functions now because the younger members of the group are >just too frightened to post the way they used to. I had to leave the group >because of Doug’s first attack on me and I was about to leave the group for >the second and last time when John Jay came to the rescue. When I returned >to the group for the second time hoping that I could post without feeling >fear Doug, this evil piece of shit, waited for just the right moment to >attack me for a second time. >Since he can no longer enjoy the feeling that he is the group’s wise old man >seeing himself a someone in his middle 50’s who has survived till now the >ravages of Social Phobia he set about creating so much fear in us, people >who already live in a constant state of fear, that he has single handedly >destroyed our group to the point where we are lucky if thre is even just one >post per day. This group is a sanctuary for the relatively small number of >people in the group who have really nowhere else to go. It was a precious >resource that I valued greatly. Now if things continue the way they are >going Usenet will close the group altogether and the great all knowing one, >Doug,  will be to blame for this. >I was 50 last July and as I took pains to explain to the younger members of >the group there is really nothing special about the way I write. The ability >to write is something that develops with age and all of the younger members >of the group will find that this is true when they get older. So they are >easily intimidated by the words of older people who don’t know that they >have nothing to be afraid of even if what Doug writes fills them with a >feeling of dread and foreboding. >I curse Doug for doing what he did to me and what he has done to this group. >If you want to learn about Social Phobia this is not the place to do it and >if you think I will accept that you are hear to learn more about Social >Phobia then you must think I’m the biggest fool you have ever come across. >I see Doug has posted a message below this and if this piece of shit thinks >I will read it then he too thinks I am a complete idiot. >I expect Usenet will close terminate the group soon if things don’t pick up >and trhe younger members of the group find the couage to start posting >again. I have encouraged everyone many times to post and not be afraid but >now thanks to Doug the level of fear is just too high. >Go away. You have nothing whatsoever to offer to this dying group. >Peter Nolan

Response:

On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 11:32:15 +1100, "Ben Johnson" <web…@hotmail.com

wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Have been seeing a psychiatrist for my Social Phobia / Depression since 2000 and have been on antidepressants since that time.   Zoloft 200mg/day for 2 years, and since then Efexor XR 150mg/day. I’ve cancelled my last appointments with him as I’m not interested / can’t be bothered to see him anymore – he just seems to be interested in prescribing drugs rather than fixing my problems. Zoloft seemed to work from about the 4th to 8th month point – but stopped working a couple of months after. Since then I’ve felt "flat" ever since and the Efexor hasn’t helped either. I have about 8 weeks of meds left. I’m worried about how to ease myself off these drugs. I know when I go without my Efexor for a couple of days I get quite bad mood-swings and it can be a little scary. Please help with some advice. Thanks, Ben

Hi Ben, I took Effexor for approximately a year and it worked similarly to Paxil, an ssri anti depressant, which is to say it helped to reduced my anxiety, but it couldn’t stop bouts of high anxiety or situational panic attacks.  It eventually pooped out and I ended up dropping it for another AD at that time.  I would recommend that you wean off this drug slowly, just as you would an ssri anti depressant.  This means gradually decreasing your dosage over at least a several week period. This lessens withdrawal and its side effects.  Last, but not least, talk to your doctor, if not the shrink, then your GP and get his input re. tapering off Effexor.  Whatever you do, don’t just stop taking it altogether because the side effects can be quite uncomfortable.  Best wishes. Doug D.

Response:

On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 15:49:43 +1100, "Ben Johnson" <web…@hotmail.com

wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

I came off Effexor recently, after only 75 mg/day for seven weeks.  My doc’s instructions were to take 37.5 mg daily for a week, then 37.5 mg every other day for 2 more weeks, then discontinue.  Those three weeks were a cakewalk, but were followed by 3-4 weeks of tachycardia, which my doc insists was an extremely atypical discontinuance reaction. Sorry I can’t help with the Zoloft. Figaro, It is Efexor I’m coming off (had been on Zoloft previous). I have the 150mg slow-release capsules (they’re full of little white balls). So I guess if I want to half the dosage it’s a case of emptying out a capsule down the sink and filling the empty shell with half the contents from another capsule.  That effectively gives me 2 x 75mg capsules – right ? Anyone else on these slow-release capsules?  Do you find they don’t digest properly? BJ

BJ, You can talk to your doctor about switching you over to standard Effexor pills and reducing your dosage with them until you’re off this med.  Your doc would know for sure, but I think I’ve read that you can’t halve or quarter time release capsules and achieve acceptable results. Doug D.

Response:

Meryl  <mapr…@ozemail.com.au

writes: I notice you spell Efexor the way we do in Oz. I have changed the spelling on ngs but it is interesting to see that it is not just spelt that way here.

Yep, in the UK there’s one ‘f’ in ‘Efexor’ but no f’in’ Wellbutrin. (Well, not as an AD. In the UK it’s only approved for smoking cessation.)

Response:

On 14 Dec 2003 09:21:06 +0000, Bruce Mardle <br…@algol.demon.co.uk

wrote:

Meryl  <mapr…@ozemail.com.au writes: I notice you spell Efexor the way we do in Oz. I have changed the spelling on ngs but it is interesting to see that it is not just spelt that way here. Yep, in the UK there’s one ‘f’ in ‘Efexor’ but no f’in’ Wellbutrin. (Well, not as an AD. In the UK it’s only approved for smoking cessation.)

OK. LOL I think Wellbutrin has another name here. I take it back (just checked). It is sold as an antidepressant but is also known as Zyban for smoking cessation. As for me, I am very grateful to have switched to Lexapro. It will be on the PBS in Feb, until then I have sample packs. Meryl

Response:

"Meryl" <mapr…@ozemail.com.au

wrote in message

news:onultvoa745lc6v2l4rf9cncvk7pa7sstd@4ax.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> On Sat, 13 Dec 2003 10:54:13 -0000, "Peter  Nolan" <nos…@nospam.com> > wrote: > >"Meryl" <mapr…@ozemail.com.au

wrote in message

> >news:ckdktvgei03hhs43p6kv1cc8107aomskd5@4ax.com… > >Hello Meryl, > >I see you are still flying the flag for Doug in our group. > I speak for myself. > >You have Panic Disorder by your own admission and do not belong in this > >group. > and depression and agoraphobia. I came here to learn about social > phobia so I could bring more understanding to my relationship. I did > ask posters if they objected. I don’t recall you objecting until now. > >You do not suffer from Social Phobia and therefore have no idea what you are

talking about. I was talking about tapering from Effexor. I know much about that. I was taking it for 5 years. You are not entitled to advise us on anything concerning Social Phobia whether it’s about drugs or any other aspect of our crippling disorder. Could you explain why my posting upsets you so much? Do us all a favour by subcribing to a group about Panic Disorder like alt.support.anxiety-panic. I do and ASAPM. Leave us alone. It’s bad enough suffering from Social Phobia without an asshole like you with a filthy agenda messing us up passing off as

someone

who can help us here in alt.support.social-phobia. Would you like to talk about what you see as my agenda? I am interested, really. Go somewhere else where you can gloat about others less fortunate than yourself. I am sorry if you perceive me as gloating. I am not sure why. I’m sick and tired of you popping up here on a regular basis because that evil cocksucker, Doug, has finally figured out he serves no useful

purpose

in assp where he tries to pass himself off as a qualified pharmacist or

even

a psychiatrist. Believe me, Doug is not a pharmacist, nor a psychiatrist. However he does have SP, hence my appearance here to learn more about the disorder. In other words, kiss your ass and swallow! I don’t think I have mentioned that I have a chronic back problem. I think such a contortion is beyond me.

Hello Meryl, You must think that we are a bunch of soft headed morons. I don’t believe a single word word you say. Leave our group. You do not belong here. You made your entrance when you told us what a kind loving man Doug was. We now know otherwise. That is when you should have left. Doug has destroyed our group when it became obvious to him that he could no longer play the role of father figure to the group dominating and infecting the group by trying to write in a calm measured way when there was a almost uncontrollable rage seething inside him something we have all seen now in him at long last. The group barely functions now because the younger members of the group are just too frightened to post the way they used to. I had to leave the group because of Doug’s first attack on me and I was about to leave the group for the second and last time when John Jay came to the rescue. When I returned to the group for the second time hoping that I could post without feeling fear Doug, this evil piece of shit, waited for just the right moment to attack me for a second time. Since he can no longer enjoy the feeling that he is the group’s wise old man seeing himself a someone in his middle 50’s who has survived till now the ravages of Social Phobia he set about creating so much fear in us, people who already live in a constant state of fear, that he has single handedly destroyed our group to the point where we are lucky if thre is even just one post per day. This group is a sanctuary for the relatively small number of people in the group who have really nowhere else to go. It was a precious resource that I valued greatly. Now if things continue the way they are going Usenet will close the group altogether and the great all knowing one, Doug,  will be to blame for this. I was 50 last July and as I took pains to explain to the younger members of the group there is really nothing special about the way I write. The ability to write is something that develops with age and all of the younger members of the group will find that this is true when they get older. So they are easily intimidated by the words of older people who don’t know that they have nothing to be afraid of even if what Doug writes fills them with a feeling of dread and foreboding. I curse Doug for doing what he did to me and what he has done to this group. If you want to learn about Social Phobia this is not the place to do it and if you think I will accept that you are hear to learn more about Social Phobia then you must think I’m the biggest fool you have ever come across. I see Doug has posted a message below this and if this piece of shit thinks I will read it then he too thinks I am a complete idiot. I expect Usenet will close terminate the group soon if things don’t pick up and trhe younger members of the group find the couage to start posting again. I have encouraged everyone many times to post and not be afraid but now thanks to Doug the level of fear is just too high. Go away. You have nothing whatsoever to offer to this dying group. Peter Nolan

Response:

On Sat, 13 Dec 2003 10:54:13 -0000, "Peter  Nolan" <nos…@nospam.com

wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

"Meryl" <mapr…@ozemail.com.au wrote in message news:ckdktvgei03hhs43p6kv1cc8107aomskd5@4ax.com… Hello Meryl, I see you are still flying the flag for Doug in our group. You have Panic Disorder by your own admission and do not belong in this group. You do not suffer from Social Phobia and therefore have no idea what you are talking about. You are not entitled to advise us on anything concerning Social Phobia whether it’s about drugs or any other aspect of our crippling disorder. Do us all a favour by subcribing to a group about Panic Disorder like alt.support.anxiety-panic. Leave us alone. It’s bad enough suffering from Social Phobia without an asshole like you with a filthy agenda messing us up passing off as someone who can help us here in alt.support.social-phobia. Go somewhere else where you can gloat about others less fortunate than yourself. I’m sick and tired of you popping up here on a regular basis because that evil cocksucker, Doug, has finally figured out he serves no useful purpose in assp where he tries to pass himself off as a qualified pharmacist or even a psychiatrist.

Peter, I haven’t had time to post here for some time now because I took a job about 2 months ago working as a consultant.  I was very fortunate in having a friend who also does consulting work in my field, offered me work, and provides accommodation for my sp when it gets to be too much. The work will eventually ease up and I’ll return on at least a semi regular basis to this group.  I must say that for someone who’s cried crocodile tears for months about being personally attacked once or twice, you certainly don’t have any qualms about attacking others yourself.  And vulgar to boot. To set the record straight, I’ve never, ever tried to pass myself off as a qualified pharmacist or a psychiatrist.  I offer advice based on experience with my own sp and from research I’ve done over the years, but I’ve frequently made it clear that I have no professional credentials in this area. You might consider taking a long walk and trying to work some of your anger off. Doug D. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

In other words, kiss your ass and swallow! Peter Nolan.

Response:

Meryl  <mapr…@ozemail.com.au

writes: On 13 Dec 2003 10:32:15 +0000, Bruce Mardle <br…@algol.demon.co.uk wrote: . For the first couple of weeks, I’d cry ‘at the drop of a hat’, which was odd cos I usually wasn’t feeling particularly sad. Was it depression? When that happens with me it is normally an indicator of depression.

Maybe, but on balance I’ve been happier since I stopped taking venlafaxine. I think I’ve been suffering from social phobia for the past 23 years, and mild depression for most of that time. The various healthcare people I’ve had peering at me over the past 3 years seem to agree with the former, but keep changing their mind about the latter.

I had lots of gastric problems, still have weeks later but I suspect that Lexapro might be a factor. I deal with the symptoms and I am grateful that my depression is alleviated.

Who designed this crazy system where 1 neurotransmitter is involved in both mood and digestion? I think we should sue.

Effexor can affect sleep. I had insomnia at first but it passed.

In my case, I had the same screwy (lack of) sleep pattern on Efexor as off it, but didn’t feel dopey most of the time until I started. (The only time I’ve had a normal sleep pattern in the past 2 years was when I was on mirtazapine.)

I guess I responded as I did because I have dreadful memories of going through withdrawal cold turkey from 150 mg to 0. I had been admitted to hospital and was on nil by mouth. Thankfully they relented and allowed me a capsule after 60 hours. I was on IV Diazepam at the time.

Eek!

Response:

On 13 Dec 2003 13:26:16 +0000, Bruce Mardle <br…@algol.demon.co.uk

wrote: >Meryl  <mapr…@ozemail.com.au> writes: >> On 13 Dec 2003 10:32:15 +0000, Bruce Mardle <br…@algol.demon.co.uk

>> wrote: >> >. For the first couple of weeks, I’d cry ‘at the drop of a hat’, which >> >was odd cos I usually wasn’t feeling particularly sad. >> Was it depression? When that happens with me it is normally an >> indicator of depression. >Maybe, but on balance I’ve been happier since I stopped taking >venlafaxine. I think I’ve been suffering from social phobia for the >past 23 years, and mild depression for most of that time. The various >healthcare people I’ve had peering at me over the past 3 years seem to >agree with the former, but keep changing their mind about the latter.

I was diagnosed with Panic Disorder and mild Agoraphobia in 1995. The depression diagnosis came in 1998 and my pdoc diagnoses it as secondary to the anxiety. My depression was recently upgraded from mild to major.

I had lots of gastric problems, still have weeks later but I suspect that Lexapro might be a factor. I deal with the symptoms and I am grateful that my depression is alleviated. Who designed this crazy system where 1 neurotransmitter is involved in both mood and digestion? I think we should sue.

A class action perhaps?

Effexor can affect sleep. I had insomnia at first but it passed. In my case, I had the same screwy (lack of) sleep pattern on Efexor as off it, but didn’t feel dopey most of the time until I started. (The only time I’ve had a normal sleep pattern in the past 2 years was when I was on mirtazapine.)

My sleeping pattern has been fine for he past few months. I don’t know why it changed but I am grateful. I notice you spell Efexor the way we do in Oz. I have changed the spelling on ngs but it is interesting to see that it is not just spelt that way here.

I guess I responded as I did because I have dreadful memories of going through withdrawal cold turkey from 150 mg to 0. I had been admitted to hospital and was on nil by mouth. Thankfully they relented and allowed me a capsule after 60 hours. I was on IV Diazepam at the time. Eek!

It was truly terrible. I was an emergency admission with a perforated oesophagus. I discovered that surgeons know nothing about psychiatric medications. The psych registrar was not working on the weekend (cost-cutting). They could not contact my psychiatrist. I had to try and be assertive to even get the correct dose of diazepam. They had converted Xanax to diazepam incorrectly. I could have had seizures. Still that is in the past. My psychiatrist has told me that if I ever find I need an emergency admission again to go straight to a private emergency hospital. Our public system is grossly underfunded:( Meryl

Response:

On Sat, 13 Dec 2003 10:54:13 -0000, "Peter  Nolan" <nos…@nospam.com

wrote:

"Meryl" <mapr…@ozemail.com.au wrote in message news:ckdktvgei03hhs43p6kv1cc8107aomskd5@4ax.com… Hello Meryl, I see you are still flying the flag for Doug in our group.

I speak for myself.

You have Panic Disorder by your own admission and do not belong in this group.

and depression and agoraphobia. I came here to learn about social phobia so I could bring more understanding to my relationship. I did ask posters if they objected. I don’t recall you objecting until now.

You do not suffer from Social Phobia and therefore have no idea what you are talking about.

I was talking about tapering from Effexor. I know much about that. I was taking it for 5 years.

You are not entitled to advise us on anything concerning Social Phobia whether it’s about drugs or any other aspect of our crippling disorder.

Could you explain why my posting upsets you so much?

Do us all a favour by subcribing to a group about Panic Disorder like alt.support.anxiety-panic.

I do and ASAPM.

Leave us alone. It’s bad enough suffering from Social Phobia without an asshole like you with a filthy agenda messing us up passing off as someone who can help us here in alt.support.social-phobia.

Would you like to talk about what you see as my agenda? I am interested, really.

Go somewhere else where you can gloat about others less fortunate than yourself.

I am sorry if you perceive me as gloating. I am not sure why.

I’m sick and tired of you popping up here on a regular basis because that evil cocksucker, Doug, has finally figured out he serves no useful purpose in assp where he tries to pass himself off as a qualified pharmacist or even a psychiatrist.

Believe me, Doug is not a pharmacist, nor a psychiatrist. However he does have SP, hence my appearance here to learn more about the disorder.

In other words, kiss your ass and swallow!

I don’t think I have mentioned that I have a chronic back problem. I think such a contortion is beyond me. Meryl

Response:

On 13 Dec 2003 10:32:15 +0000, Bruce Mardle <br…@algol.demon.co.uk

wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Meryl  <mapr…@ozemail.com.au> writes: >> On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 15:49:43 +1100, "Ben Johnson" <web…@hotmail.com

>> wrote: >> >I have the 150mg slow-release capsules (they’re full of little white balls). >> >So I guess if I want to half the dosage it’s a case of emptying out a >> >capsule down the sink and filling the empty shell with half the contents >> >from another capsule.  That effectively gives me 2 x 75mg capsules – right ? >> This does not sound a good idea. I believe it is very difficult to get >> an accurate dosage that way. >Could be, but I’d think that taking half the contents of a capsule one >day and half the next would give a more constant concentration in the >body (and thus less chance of withdrawal effects) than taking a whole >capsule every 2 days.

OK. Given what you have written later. I have heard of capsules being opened and mixed in juice but I have no experience of that.

You may be able to get Effexor tablets at 37.5mg. They exist, but taking one 75mg modified release capsule each day would give a more constant concentration than taking two 37.5mg immediate release tablets each day. Some ADs are available as a liquid, to make it easier to tweak dosage, but venlafaxine doesn’t seem to be one of them. Effexor XR also comes in 75 mg capsules. And 37.5mg capsules in the US (but not in the UK [sigh]).

I am in Oz. I’m not sure we have 37.5. I did take 75 XR alternate days. It was not fun.  I halved my

75mg/day for a fortnight by putting half of each 75mg capsule in some empty capsules (which I happened to have lying around!). I expect Ben could do away with the capsules if he could swallow the little balls, and not have them get stuck between his teeth. Wyeth say (in the prescribing info) that if one can’t swallow a capsule, it’s OK to mix the contents with a teaspoonful of applesauce(!) and swallow that.

Sounds like a plan.

Here’s my experience of stopping venlafaxine, for what it’s worth. I was on 75mg of the modified release stuff for 7 months up until 3 weeks ago when I stopped it cold (on my GPs suggestion… which seemed iffy, but I was so fed up with feeling dopey most of the time that I was beyond caring). Things I’ve noticed: . For the first couple of weeks, when my field of vision changed suddenly, I’d hear squelching noises for a second or 2. . For the first couple of weeks, I’d cry ‘at the drop of a hat’, which was odd cos I usually wasn’t feeling particularly sad.

Was it depression? When that happens with me it is normally an indicator of depression.

. I was going to say I’ve had slight diarrhoea since I stopped, but it’s probably more accurate to say that the constipation I’ve had for years and years has stopped!

I had lots of gastric problems, still have weeks later but I suspect that Lexapro might be a factor. I deal with the symptoms and I am grateful that my depression is alleviated.

. I’ve stopped gaining weight. (I gained 25lbs over the 7 months.)

Effexor worked well for me for years. It did not affect my weight just returned my mood to normal.

. I’m more energetic, but still dopey. The latter doesn’t surprise me, though, cos I’ve gone from sleeping a total of 8 hours a day (in short bursts) to sleeping an average of 5 hours a day (in 1 burst). This is frustrating. I’ve lost 2 years of university study due to dopiness which I attribute to meds. If I’m still dopey when my next course starts (February), I will *not* be a happy bunny!

Effexor can affect sleep. I had insomnia at first but it passed.

Anyone else on these slow-release capsules?  Do you find they don’t digest properly? I never had a problem with digesting the capsules.

I guess I responded as I did because I have dreadful memories of going through withdrawal cold turkey from 150 mg to 0. I had been admitted to hospital and was on nil by mouth. Thankfully they relented and allowed me a capsule after 60 hours. I was on IV Diazepam at the time. All the best, Meryl

Response:

"Meryl" <mapr…@ozemail.com.au

wrote in message

news:ckdktvgei03hhs43p6kv1cc8107aomskd5@4ax.com… Hello Meryl, I see you are still flying the flag for Doug in our group. You have Panic Disorder by your own admission and do not belong in this group. You do not suffer from Social Phobia and therefore have no idea what you are talking about. You are not entitled to advise us on anything concerning Social Phobia whether it’s about drugs or any other aspect of our crippling disorder. Do us all a favour by subcribing to a group about Panic Disorder like alt.support.anxiety-panic. Leave us alone. It’s bad enough suffering from Social Phobia without an asshole like you with a filthy agenda messing us up passing off as someone who can help us here in alt.support.social-phobia. Go somewhere else where you can gloat about others less fortunate than yourself. I’m sick and tired of you popping up here on a regular basis because that evil cocksucker, Doug, has finally figured out he serves no useful purpose in assp where he tries to pass himself off as a qualified pharmacist or even a psychiatrist. In other words, kiss your ass and swallow! Peter Nolan.

Response:

Question:

On Mon, 22 Jan 2001 17:43:59 GMT, blueskies…@my-deja.com wrote:

Karen, you hit on what I think hurts me the most about this…his total and complete insensitivity to how I feel about it, and his apparent lack of respect for me. He compromises. It’s his way or no way. I have NOTHING to be upset about, and this, in his opinion, is my problem that I simply need to "get over". He is "doing nothing wrong", and there is no reason that he should stop (his words). I don’t believe he understands the word respect. KB

 Like I said in a previous post, start looking at porn yourself and when he gets upset about it just say he is going to have to get over it. It will show him how you feel when he says it to you. The end result will hopefully be he gets the hint.

Response:

Evolution has designed man to impregnate as many females as he can so as to place more of his genes into the pool. Marriage, and monogamy places restrictions on that plan. Looking at porn (love of female and female anatomy) is a way of spreading his genes…by proxy if you will. By the same token, evolutions plan is that females want to "capture" a male, have his genes inseminate her, and then keep him around to help care for the offspring.  She does not want him spreading any more of his genes. What you are feeling are very deep, evolutionary placed emotions to try to prevent him from moving on. He is paying homage to his instincts just as you are.  And he is doing it in the most acceptable way at this time and place in our society. If he is not spending the babies diaper money on the porn, then leave him alone. If you really want to make him think of you as the most desireable woman in the world, then become his feat accompli and learn to enjoy the porn yourself and include yourself in his viewing. Not too many women do that, but he ones that do become almost irreplaceable in a man’s life. rg <blueskies…@my-deja.com

wrote in message

news:94g65t$i4g$1@nnrp1.deja.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

I just found this group, and I have a question (forgive me if this topic has been discussed before). My husband enjoys viewing porn on the internet. He has even subscribed to 2 websites at a cost of $10/month. I have told him that it bothers me to no end, but his response is that "all men do it" and it’s no big deal. I’ve tried to explain that when he is looking at other women on line, and sometimes, well, let’s say, pleasuring himself, that it makes me feel unattractive, unwanted, and undesirable. I am NOT any of those things. (age 36, blonde, 5′4", 105 pounds, and I can still turn a head or two). I don’t know if I’m overreacting, or being unreasonable. I cannot help the way I feel though, and frankly, the idea of it is a major turn-off for me. Yes, our sex life is very good, quite frequent, satisfying and intense. I have gotten extremely upset over this, to the point of tears, and it falls on deaf ears. I’ve tried begging, pleading, threatening… you name it, to make him stop. He says that I don’t understand, and it’s my problem… I’m being a prude. He will not stop. He doesn’t do it that often (that I’m aware of), but it sickens me to think about it. Am I being unreasonable? Any advice? Thanks….. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/

Response:

It upsets me because I do NOT understand the need for it. As I told him one night, as I caught him with junior in hand, looking at it, WHY does he prefer to jerk off looking at pornography, when he has a perfectly good wife in bed. (he thought I was asleep. I was, but came out for a drink of water). He does not view it in front of me. No, he isn’t spending the baby money (I have an 8yr old son!), but since he is unemployed, guess who IS paying for this!?!?!? KB In article <14939-3A6C8EA6…@storefull-103.iap.bryant.webtv.net

,

  KTGO…@webtv.net (Karen) wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

blueskies wrote, begging, pleading, threatening… you name it, to make him stop. He

says

that I don’t understand, and it’s my problem… I’m being a prude. He will not stop. He doesn’t do it that often (that I’m aware of), but it sickens me to think about it. Am I being unreasonable? Any advice? Thanks….. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/  Does it upset you because he is looking at other woman? Does he make comments about them? Does he try to include you when he is checking

out

this stuff? I am just trying to understand the full picture. My

husband

also views this type of stuff, but it is not the woman or the sex

itself

that he likes. It is his never ending curiosity to find the unusual. something he has never seen before. Some may think that is

disgusting, I

think it is simply human nature.  I feel as long as it is not children he is looking at (which he is firmly against).  Then I see no problem with it. (except for maybe the "hey babe, check this out, gross!".

every

5 seconds). It is not my cup of tea, but I don’t hold it against him. Ps. I can’t believe you are paying for it though! good grief it is

every

where and free. Karen

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/

Response:

On Mon, 22 Jan 2001 21:49:48 GMT, blueskies…@my-deja.com wrote:

but since he is unemployed, guess who IS paying for this!?!?!?

For you is the issue the porn or the fact he is unemployed?  Put another way, if he was working, would this matter as long as you also had a good sex life? Is the porn a new development? Floridanewbie — Love may be blind but marriage is a real eye opener.

Response:

Do you want me to? rg "Jadelee111512" <jadelee111…@aol.com

wrote in message

news:20010122165116.04553.00000626@ng-cc1.aol.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

From: "rg" jobba…@hotmail.com Evolution has designed man to impregnate as many females as he can so as

to

place more of his genes into the pool. Marriage, and monogamy places restrictions on that plan. Looking at porn (love of female and female anatomy) is a way of spreading his genes…by proxy if you will. By the same token, evolutions plan is that females want to "capture" a

male,

have his genes inseminate her, and then keep him around to help care for

the

offspring.  She does not want him spreading any more of his genes. What you are feeling are very deep, evolutionary placed emotions to try

to

prevent him from moving on. He is paying homage to his instincts just as you are.  And he is doing it

in

the most acceptable way at this time and place in our society. If he is not spending the babies diaper money on the porn, then leave him alone. If you really want to make him think of you as the most desireable woman

in

the world, then become his feat accompli and learn to enjoy the porn yourself and include yourself in his viewing. Not too many women do that, but he ones that do become almost

irreplaceable

in a man’s life. rg Couldn’t stay away, eh?

Response:

,,control freak,,shakes head,,, Doc Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/

Response:

If he is unemployed, then he should NOT be spending money on this. This is a totally unnecessary expense. He should be looking for a job, or training for one. rg <blueskies…@my-deja.com

wrote in message

news:94i9to$b1f$1@nnrp1.deja.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

It upsets me because I do NOT understand the need for it. As I told him one night, as I caught him with junior in hand, looking at it, WHY does he prefer to jerk off looking at pornography, when he has a perfectly good wife in bed. (he thought I was asleep. I was, but came out for a drink of water). He does not view it in front of me. No, he isn’t spending the baby money (I have an 8yr old son!), but since he is unemployed, guess who IS paying for this!?!?!? KB In article <14939-3A6C8EA6…@storefull-103.iap.bryant.webtv.net,   KTGO…@webtv.net (Karen) wrote: blueskies wrote, begging, pleading, threatening… you name it, to make him stop. He says that I don’t understand, and it’s my problem… I’m being a prude. He will not stop. He doesn’t do it that often (that I’m aware of), but it sickens me to think about it. Am I being unreasonable? Any advice? Thanks….. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/  Does it upset you because he is looking at other woman? Does he make comments about them? Does he try to include you when he is checking out this stuff? I am just trying to understand the full picture. My husband also views this type of stuff, but it is not the woman or the sex itself that he likes. It is his never ending curiosity to find the unusual. something he has never seen before. Some may think that is disgusting, I think it is simply human nature.  I feel as long as it is not children he is looking at (which he is firmly against).  Then I see no problem with it. (except for maybe the "hey babe, check this out, gross!". every 5 seconds). It is not my cup of tea, but I don’t hold it against him. Ps. I can’t believe you are paying for it though! good grief it is every where and free. Karen Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/

Response:

With the savings, you may be able to get some counseling to find out why you are so upset over the thought of your husband satisfying his biological need for diversity in such a harmless way.  You obvioulsy have some very serious control issues, and if I were him, seeking a divorce would be very near the top of my list, unless you were to experience a very sudden and dramatic attitude change. I hope this helps!!!

I agree about the control.  Things outside of ourselves do not "make" us feel one way or another.  We make ourselves feel the way we do…as a conditioned or congicent response.  Buddism has much to say about that. But I don’t think divorce is the answer.  There is lots of room for resolution of this problem…and it may require a compromise in which he spends a little less time viewing…and you spend a little more time viewing. rg

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

From: "rg" jobba…@hotmail.com Evolution has designed man to impregnate as many females as he can so as to place more of his genes into the pool. Marriage, and monogamy places restrictions on that plan. Looking at porn (love of female and female anatomy) is a way of spreading his genes…by proxy if you will. By the same token, evolutions plan is that females want to "capture" a male, have his genes inseminate her, and then keep him around to help care for the offspring.  She does not want him spreading any more of his genes. What you are feeling are very deep, evolutionary placed emotions to try to prevent him from moving on. He is paying homage to his instincts just as you are.  And he is doing it in the most acceptable way at this time and place in our society. If he is not spending the babies diaper money on the porn, then leave him alone. If you really want to make him think of you as the most desireable woman in the world, then become his feat accompli and learn to enjoy the porn yourself and include yourself in his viewing. Not too many women do that, but he ones that do become almost irreplaceable in a man’s life. rg

Couldn’t stay away, eh?

Response:

blueskies wrote, begging, pleading, threatening… you name it, to make him stop. He says that I don’t understand, and it’s my problem… I’m being a prude. He will not stop. He doesn’t do it that often (that I’m aware of), but it sickens me to think about it. Am I being unreasonable? Any advice? Thanks….. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/    Does it upset you because he is looking at other woman? Does he make comments about them? Does he try to include you when he is checking out this stuff? I am just trying to understand the full picture. My husband also views this type of stuff, but it is not the woman or the sex itself that he likes. It is his never ending curiosity to find the unusual. something he has never seen before. Some may think that is disgusting, I think it is simply human nature.  I feel as long as it is not children he is looking at (which he is firmly against).  Then I see no problem with it. (except for maybe the "hey babe, check this out, gross!". every 5 seconds). It is not my cup of tea, but I don’t hold it against him. Ps. I can’t believe you are paying for it though! good grief it is every where and free. Karen

Response:

You are *not* being unreasonable.  I would wonder why, when something is this important to you, your husband has to turn into "dork mode" and make a case out of it being "your problem".    Hopefully he can be brought around to seeing what a selfish action this is, and how counter-productive to an intimate relationship this is. Best of luck, LS

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -JohnyK wrote:

On Mon, 22 Jan 2001 02:33:33 GMT, blueskies…@my-deja.com wrote: I just found this group, and I have a question (forgive me if this topic has been discussed before). My husband enjoys viewing porn on the internet. He has even subscribed to 2 websites at a cost of $10/month. I have told him that it bothers me to no end, but his response is that "all men do it" and it’s no big deal. I’ve tried to explain that when he is looking at other women on line, and sometimes, well, let’s say, pleasuring himself, that it makes me feel unattractive, unwanted, and undesirable. I am NOT any of those things. (age 36, blonde, 5′4", 105 pounds, and I can still turn a head or two). I don’t know if I’m overreacting, or being unreasonable. I cannot help the way I feel though, and frankly, the idea of it is a major turn-off for me. Yes, our sex life is very good, quite frequent, satisfying and intense. I have gotten extremely upset over this, to the point of tears, and it falls on deaf ears. I’ve tried begging, pleading, threatening… you name it, to make him stop. He says that I don’t understand, and it’s my problem… I’m being a prude. He will not stop. He doesn’t do it that often (that I’m aware of), but it sickens me to think about it. Am I being unreasonable? Any advice? Thanks…..  Go to sites that have men pictured on them and see if he likes it when you do this.  This is not a joke…..I’m dead serious

I agree with JohnnyK on this, go to a porn site just for Women and see if he likes it.

Response:

Karen, Can you explain the ‘comfort and security’ males get from this? I have the same problem at home also, and it causes me many days of grief wondering what’s wrong with me/him. I’m trying to understand exactly what it is that they get from viewing all this porn. Mine does it when I’m not home, boy does that really want to make me leave the house!! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

BTW, watching porn has nothing to do with your attractiveness. It’s a way for him to get comfort, much like a baby bottle or security blanket. Karen

Response:

Karen, you hit on what I think hurts me the most about this…his total and complete insensitivity to how I feel about it, and his apparent lack of respect for me. He compromises. It’s his way or no way. I have NOTHING to be upset about, and this, in his opinion, is my problem that I simply need to "get over". He is "doing nothing wrong", and there is no reason that he should stop (his words). I don’t believe he understands the word respect. KB In article <94hprh$6k…@carroll.library.ucla.edu

,

  ro…@hhmi.ucla.edu (Karen Ronan) wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

The problem isn’t really porn. It’s your husband’s insensitivity and deaf ears to your hurt feelings. Many men watch porn and also put some limits/boundaries on it out of ***respect*** for their wives’ feelings. Your husband is totally unwilling to respect your feelings and make some compromises, and that is a problem in a marriage. BTW, watching porn has nothing to do with your attractiveness. It’s a way for him to get comfort, much like a baby bottle or security blanket. Karen blueskies…@my-deja.com writes: I just found this group, and I have a question (forgive me if this topic has been discussed before). My husband enjoys viewing porn on

the

internet. He has even subscribed to 2 websites at a cost of

$10/month.

I have told him that it bothers me to no end, but his response is that "all men do it" and it’s no big deal. I’ve tried to explain

that

when he is looking at other women on line, and sometimes, well,

let’s

say, pleasuring himself, that it makes me feel unattractive,

unwanted,

and undesirable. I am NOT any of those things. (age 36, blonde,

5′4",

105 pounds, and I can still turn a head or two). I don’t know if I’m overreacting, or being unreasonable. I cannot help the way I feel though, and frankly, the idea of it is a major turn-off for me. Yes, our sex life is very good, quite frequent, satisfying and intense. I have gotten extremely upset over this, to the point of tears, and it falls on deaf ears. I’ve tried begging, pleading, threatening… you name it, to make him stop. He says that I don’t understand, and

it’s my

problem… I’m being a prude. He will not stop. He doesn’t do it

that

often (that I’m aware of), but it sickens me to think about it. Am I being unreasonable? Any advice? Thanks…..

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/

Response:

The problem isn’t really porn. It’s your husband’s insensitivity and deaf ears to your hurt feelings. Many men watch porn and also put some limits/boundaries on it out of ***respect*** for their wives’ feelings. Your husband is totally unwilling to respect your feelings and make some compromises, and that is a problem in a marriage. BTW, watching porn has nothing to do with your attractiveness. It’s a way for him to get comfort, much like a baby bottle or security blanket. Karen – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -blueskies…@my-deja.com writes:

I just found this group, and I have a question (forgive me if this topic has been discussed before). My husband enjoys viewing porn on the internet. He has even subscribed to 2 websites at a cost of $10/month. I have told him that it bothers me to no end, but his response is that "all men do it" and it’s no big deal. I’ve tried to explain that when he is looking at other women on line, and sometimes, well, let’s say, pleasuring himself, that it makes me feel unattractive, unwanted, and undesirable. I am NOT any of those things. (age 36, blonde, 5′4", 105 pounds, and I can still turn a head or two). I don’t know if I’m overreacting, or being unreasonable. I cannot help the way I feel though, and frankly, the idea of it is a major turn-off for me. Yes, our sex life is very good, quite frequent, satisfying and intense. I have gotten extremely upset over this, to the point of tears, and it falls on deaf ears. I’ve tried begging, pleading, threatening… you name it, to make him stop. He says that I don’t understand, and it’s my problem… I’m being a prude. He will not stop. He doesn’t do it that often (that I’m aware of), but it sickens me to think about it. Am I being unreasonable? Any advice? Thanks…..

Response:

thank you for the food for thought. You hit quite a few nails on the head. Now, I just have to figure out how 2 bullheaded people to work through the underlying issues…… or not.  Thank you for your helpful insights, except of course for the one that said HE should divorce me over it… KB peel an onion and there are many layers…. In article <94hj3g$u…@bob.news.rcn.net

,

  "urf" <urf…@nospam.com

wrote:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

In an odd way you are BOTH being effected by porn in the SAME way. You are both having an EMOTIONAL reaction. This is about what you are FEELING and what he is FEELING. There is no part of this that is logical or even well thought out. When faced with problems involing FEELINGS I always find it is best to go DEEP into the feeling. Look for the why of your feelings. Often the why is unrelated to the incident that provokes the feeling. I would say the same thing to your husband but since your the only one here I’ll focus on you. Here are some POSSIBILITIES that you might consider. Things that can cause negative emotional responses. Anger issues. Misplaced anger. Has there been a patten of behavior

that has

you feeling bad about your relationship in general? Are you taking it

out on

him? Insecurity issues. Does he give you reasons to doubt his commitment

to you.

No compliments. No positive reenforcement for your efforts. No affection

shown

towards you. Control issues. Perhaps your reaction is negative because you can not control him. You want him to bend to your will but he won’t. Not just in this

but

other areas as well. This is just a focal point of that feeling. Fear. You might be afraid that you are losing him. This might be

another

example of how he is moving away from you. Notice these are mostly negative emotional states. If they were

positive you

would not be having any problem. If you felt adored you would not care if he

admired a

picture on a piece of glass. If you felt loved you would not feel afraid that

he

might desire to go elsewhere. Just food for thought <blueskies…@my-deja.com wrote in message news:94g65t$i4g$1@nnrp1.deja.com… I just found this group, and I have a question (forgive me if this topic has been discussed before). My husband enjoys viewing porn on

the

internet. He has even subscribed to 2 websites at a cost of

$10/month.

I have told him that it bothers me to no end, but his response is that "all men do it" and it’s no big deal. I’ve tried to explain

that

when he is looking at other women on line, and sometimes, well,

let’s

say, pleasuring himself, that it makes me feel unattractive,

unwanted,

and undesirable. I am NOT any of those things. (age 36, blonde,

5′4",

105 pounds, and I can still turn a head or two). I don’t know if I’m overreacting, or being unreasonable. I cannot help the way I feel though, and frankly, the idea of it is a major turn-off for me. Yes, our sex life is very good, quite frequent, satisfying and intense. I have gotten extremely upset over this, to the point of tears, and it falls on deaf ears. I’ve tried begging, pleading, threatening… you name it, to make him stop. He says that I don’t understand, and

it’s my

problem… I’m being a prude. He will not stop. He doesn’t do it

that

often (that I’m aware of), but it sickens me to think about it. Am I being unreasonable? Any advice? Thanks….. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/

Response:

From: "urf" urf…@nospam.com In an odd way you are BOTH being effected by porn in the SAME way. You are both having an EMOTIONAL reaction.

Actually it is possible that she is having an emotional reaction and he is having a physical reaction.  One of the things that porn allows is to numb out and NOT feel emotions…which is why some men choose it.  It enables them to stay in a state of numbness and not have to experience emotions.

This is about what you are FEELING and what he is FEELING.

Not necessarily.  She is reacting to his behavior…they may not necessarily be as closely related to feeling as they are to simply responding.

When faced with problems involing FEELINGS I always find it is best to go DEEP into the feeling. Look for the why of your feelings. Often the why is unrelated to the incident that provokes the feeling.

It is a good idea for each of them to figure out why they are feeling or responding or reacting in the ways that they are.  It is my guess that he is too much into the *doing* and she is into the *responding* that going into the feeling just may not be possible (right now). Anger, insecurity, control and fear are certainly issues that might exist for this poster.  Since she is in a marriage, it makes sense for the two of them to be working together on what emotions exist (or are missing)…and for the two of them to look inward.  Not just her….porn issues in a marriage are a two way street.

Response:

In article <94g65t$i4…@nnrp1.deja.com

,

  blueskies…@my-deja.com wrote:

I just found this group, and I have a question (forgive me if this topic has been discussed before). My husband enjoys viewing porn on the internet. He has even subscribed to 2 websites at a cost of $10/month. I have told him that it bothers me to no end, but his response is that "all men do it" and it’s no big deal.

$20 a month on online porn is very wasteful.  I would recommend that he visit http://www.hardcorejunky.net/links2.html, which has a great deal of categorized FREE links (the Latina page, http://www.hardcorejunky.net/latinas.html, is my personal favorite!!!). With the savings, you may be able to get some counseling to find out why you are so upset over the thought of your husband satisfying his biological need for diversity in such a harmless way.  You obvioulsy have some very serious control issues, and if I were him, seeking a divorce would be very near the top of my list, unless you were to experience a very sudden and dramatic attitude change. I hope this helps!!! Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/

Response:

subversionma…@my-deja.com wrote:

$20 a month on online porn is very wasteful.  I would recommend that he visit http://www.hardcorejunky.net/links2.html, which has a great deal of categorized FREE links (the Latina page, http://www.hardcorejunky.net/latinas.html, is my personal favorite!!!). With the savings, you may be able to get some counseling to find out why you are so upset over the thought of your husband satisfying his biological need for diversity in such a harmless way.  You obvioulsy have some very serious control issues,

No, that’s not obvious at all. That conclusion is premature. Indeed, it might have nothing at all to do with her and everything to do with him. **********

and if I were him, seeking a divorce would be very near the top of my list, unless you were to experience a very sudden and dramatic attitude change.

Reverse the roles for a moment Sub. For example, if it’s your wife who was getting off on porn on a regular basis by herself, how would you feel about that situation? CJ

Response:

Yes, I think you are overreacting. I recommend Nadine Strossen’s book "Defending Pornography." Also, try watching a porn movie on your own. You might like it. — Walt In article <94g65t$i4…@nnrp1.deja.com

,

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -  blueskies…@my-deja.com wrote:

I just found this group, and I have a question (forgive me if this topic has been discussed before). My husband enjoys viewing porn on

the

internet. He has even subscribed to 2 websites at a cost of $10/month. I have told him that it bothers me to no end, but his response is that "all men do it" and it’s no big deal. I’ve tried to explain that when he is looking at other women on line, and sometimes, well, let’s say, pleasuring himself, that it makes me feel unattractive, unwanted, and undesirable. I am NOT any of those things. (age 36, blonde, 5′4", 105 pounds, and I can still turn a head or two). I don’t know if I’m overreacting, or being unreasonable. I cannot help the way I feel though, and frankly, the idea of it is a major turn-off for me. Yes, our sex life is very good, quite frequent, satisfying and intense. I have gotten extremely upset over this, to the point of tears, and it falls on deaf ears. I’ve tried begging, pleading, threatening… you name it, to make him stop. He says that I don’t understand, and it’s

my

problem… I’m being a prude. He will not stop. He doesn’t do it that often (that I’m aware of), but it sickens me to think about it. Am I being unreasonable? Any advice? Thanks….. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/

Response:

In an odd way you are BOTH being effected by porn in the SAME way. You are both having an EMOTIONAL reaction. This is about what you are FEELING and what he is FEELING. There is no part of this that is logical or even well thought out. When faced with problems involing FEELINGS I always find it is best to go DEEP into the feeling. Look for the why of your feelings. Often the why is unrelated to the incident that provokes the feeling. I would say the same thing to your husband but since your the only one here I’ll focus on you. Here are some POSSIBILITIES that you might consider. Things that can cause negative emotional responses. Anger issues. Misplaced anger. Has there been a patten of behavior that has you feeling bad about your relationship in general? Are you taking it out on him? Insecurity issues. Does he give you reasons to doubt his commitment to you. No compliments. No positive reenforcement for your efforts. No affection shown towards you. Control issues. Perhaps your reaction is negative because you can not control him. You want him to bend to your will but he won’t. Not just in this but other areas as well. This is just a focal point of that feeling. Fear. You might be afraid that you are losing him. This might be another example of how he is moving away from you. Notice these are mostly negative emotional states. If they were positive you would not be having any problem. If you felt adored you would not care if he admired a picture on a piece of glass. If you felt loved you would not feel afraid that he might desire to go elsewhere. Just food for thought <blueskies…@my-deja.com

wrote in message

news:94g65t$i4g$1@nnrp1.deja.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

I just found this group, and I have a question (forgive me if this topic has been discussed before). My husband enjoys viewing porn on the internet. He has even subscribed to 2 websites at a cost of $10/month. I have told him that it bothers me to no end, but his response is that "all men do it" and it’s no big deal. I’ve tried to explain that when he is looking at other women on line, and sometimes, well, let’s say, pleasuring himself, that it makes me feel unattractive, unwanted, and undesirable. I am NOT any of those things. (age 36, blonde, 5′4", 105 pounds, and I can still turn a head or two). I don’t know if I’m overreacting, or being unreasonable. I cannot help the way I feel though, and frankly, the idea of it is a major turn-off for me. Yes, our sex life is very good, quite frequent, satisfying and intense. I have gotten extremely upset over this, to the point of tears, and it falls on deaf ears. I’ve tried begging, pleading, threatening… you name it, to make him stop. He says that I don’t understand, and it’s my problem… I’m being a prude. He will not stop. He doesn’t do it that often (that I’m aware of), but it sickens me to think about it. Am I being unreasonable? Any advice? Thanks….. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/

Response:

In article <20010122034152.11992.00000…@ng-fl1.aol.com

,

  cjmorga…@aol.com (CJMorgan59) wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

subversionma…@my-deja.com wrote: $20 a month on online porn is very wasteful.  I would recommend that

he

visit http://www.hardcorejunky.net/links2.html, which has a great

deal

of categorized FREE links (the Latina page, http://www.hardcorejunky.net/latinas.html, is my personal

favorite!!!).

With the savings, you may be able to get some counseling to find out why you are so upset over the thought of your husband satisfying his biological need for diversity in such a harmless way.  You obvioulsy have some very serious control issues, No, that’s not obvious at all. That conclusion is premature. Indeed,

it might

have nothing at all to do with her and everything to do with him. ********** and if I were him, seeking a divorce would be very near the top of my list, unless you were to experience a very sudden and dramatic attitude change. Reverse the roles for a moment Sub. For example, if it’s your wife who

was

getting off on porn on a regular basis by herself, how would you feel

about

that situation? CJ

As long as I was getting all the attention I needed too, it wouldn’t bother me a bit.  I have no need to control her mind.  Since she says they have a great sex life, the problem is obviously her control issues. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/

Response:

I just found this group, and I have a question (forgive me if this topic has been discussed before). My husband enjoys viewing porn on the internet. He has even subscribed to 2 websites at a cost of $10/month. I have told him that it bothers me to no end, but his response is that "all men do it" and it’s no big deal. I’ve tried to explain that when he is looking at other women on line, and sometimes, well, let’s say, pleasuring himself, that it makes me feel unattractive, unwanted, and undesirable. I am NOT any of those things. (age 36, blonde, 5′4", 105 pounds, and I can still turn a head or two). I don’t know if I’m overreacting, or being unreasonable. I cannot help the way I feel though, and frankly, the idea of it is a major turn-off for me. Yes, our sex life is very good, quite frequent, satisfying and intense. I have gotten extremely upset over this, to the point of tears, and it falls on deaf ears. I’ve tried begging, pleading, threatening… you name it, to make him stop. He says that I don’t understand, and it’s my problem… I’m being a prude. He will not stop. He doesn’t do it that often (that I’m aware of), but it sickens me to think about it. Am I being unreasonable? Any advice? Thanks….. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/

Response:

From: blueskies…@my-deja.com I just found this group, and I have a question (forgive me if this topic has been discussed before).

This topic has been discussed before.  Many a time.  And if it weren’t you, it would be someone else to bring it up again…and again and again.  So, no need to apologize )

My husband enjoys viewing porn on the internet. He has even subscribed to 2 websites at a cost of $10/month. I have told him that it bothers me to no end, but his response is that "all men do it" and it’s no big deal.

There are men that can look at porn and it’s no big deal…sometimes it turns them on and they end up making love to their wives and all is well that ends well.  Then there are men that look at porn and all kinds of problems occur…anywhere from not being able to get it up to getting it up and not being able to climax with their spouse.  And many other problems in between. Just like, some people can have a glass or two of wine andthere is no problem and for others, having a glass of wine turns into a problem.

I don’t know if I’m overreacting, or being unreasonable.

Some of it may be your stuff (insecurity or low self esteem) and some of it may be his stuff (more than just plain old guy stuff).  Have you tried talking to him about this…when he is not doing what you don’t like?

Yes, our sex life is very good, quite frequent, satisfying and intense.

So it’s safe to assume that you’re thinking, "if our sex life is frequent and satisfying and intense, then why the hell does he need that crap?"  While it doesn’t make sense to you…it may make sense to him.  Have you ever asked him what it is about the porno that keeps him interested?

I have gotten extremely upset over this, to the point of tears, and it falls on deaf ears

Many people will continue to do what they do despite protestations…men or women.  The bottom line is that he is aware that it is bothering you.  It is important that you both reach some kind of understanding about what porno means to each of you.  Until then, you won’t be able to find some common ground.

I’ve tried begging, pleading, threatening… you name it, to make him stop. He says that I don’t understand, and it’s my problem…

I feel confident in saying that each of you has a  problem with it…it not simply a matter of it being only one you with a problem.  I am not saying that both of you are messed up..but what I am saying is that somewhere, at some time, some wiring went in a particular direction and you both have to find a way to re-wire yourselves in order to connect.    He will not stop. He doesn’t do it that

often (that I’m aware of), but it sickens me to think about it. Am I being unreasonable? Any advice? Thanks…..

I think that you both need some intervention.  A person who can help both of you understand where each of you are.  Without knowing both of you, I can’t realistically say that either of you are wrong.  What I feel confident in saying is that you both could use an unbiased party to help you both understand each other better.  Both of you can bet your needs met if you can better listen to each other. Chances are, you are going to get some strong opinions about porn in here.  I strongly advice you to take what you need and leave the rest.  DO NOT take what posters say personally.  Everyone has their idea of pornography and not everyone has a full understanding of the possiblity of porn not necessarily being healthy in all relationships.   Hang in there!

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -On Mon, 22 Jan 2001 02:33:33 GMT, blueskies…@my-deja.com wrote:

I just found this group, and I have a question (forgive me if this topic has been discussed before). My husband enjoys viewing porn on the internet. He has even subscribed to 2 websites at a cost of $10/month. I have told him that it bothers me to no end, but his response is that "all men do it" and it’s no big deal. I’ve tried to explain that when he is looking at other women on line, and sometimes, well, let’s say, pleasuring himself, that it makes me feel unattractive, unwanted, and undesirable. I am NOT any of those things. (age 36, blonde, 5′4", 105 pounds, and I can still turn a head or two). I don’t know if I’m overreacting, or being unreasonable. I cannot help the way I feel though, and frankly, the idea of it is a major turn-off for me. Yes, our sex life is very good, quite frequent, satisfying and intense. I have gotten extremely upset over this, to the point of tears, and it falls on deaf ears. I’ve tried begging, pleading, threatening… you name it, to make him stop. He says that I don’t understand, and it’s my problem… I’m being a prude. He will not stop. He doesn’t do it that often (that I’m aware of), but it sickens me to think about it. Am I being unreasonable? Any advice? Thanks…..

 Go to sites that have men pictured on them and see if he likes it when you do this.  This is not a joke…..I’m dead serious

Response:

Question:

Not a peep out of Thomas this time, not a peep out of him last time. Every other justice is in the fray, peppering both sides with questions. Thomas, of course, is the kind of Associate Justice Dubya Dumb likes…he’s got his eyes, ears and mouth shut. — Harry Krause We ought to make the pie higher. -GW Bush

Response:

Not a peep out of Thomas this time, not a peep out of him last time. Every other justice is in the fray, peppering both sides with questions. Thomas, of course, is the kind of Associate Justice Dubya Dumb likes…he’s got his eyes, ears and mouth shut.

That’s what you get with affirmative action. You might show a bit more sensibility and patience. Perhaps you’d benefit from diversity training? — Skipper

Response:

That’s what you get with affirmative action.

Absolutely unbelievable. That’s a troll, right? Chuck Gould Float and let float.

Response:

Not a peep out of Thomas this time, not a peep out of him last time. Every other justice is in the fray, peppering both sides with questions. Thomas, of course, is the kind of Associate Justice Dubya Dumb likes…he’s got his eyes, ears and mouth shut.

Or perhaps he’s got his eyes and ears open open, but keeping his mouth shut…Unlike Harry, whose mouth is the only thing he keeps open.

Response:

Not a peep out of Thomas this time, not a peep out of him last time. Every other justice is in the fray, peppering both sides with questions. Thomas, of course, is the kind of Associate Justice Dubya Dumb likes…he’s got his eyes, ears and mouth shut. That’s what you get with affirmative action. You might show a bit more sensibility and patience. Perhaps you’d benefit from diversity training? — Skipper

There are and were plenty of quality minority judges who could have been raised to Associate Justice. Instead, we got a dimwit. A judge Bush likes. — Harry Krause I think he needs to stand up and say if he thought the president were wrong on policy and issues, he ought to say where. -GW Bush

Response:

Not a peep out of Thomas this time, not a peep

out of him last time. Every other justice is in the fray, peppering

both sides with questions. Thomas, of course, is the kind of Associate

Justice Dubya Dumb likes…he’s got his eyes, ears and mouth shut. — Harry Krause

Thomas has always remained silent during oral arguments.  True in this hearing. true in all other hearings.   To make a negative assumption on that fact alone is ridiculous. To insult him is juvenile.

Response:

Nothing wrong with responding to

a troll with another troll is there?<< — Steve If only they would go off together and beat each other to death and leave the rest of us alone.

Response:

Nothing wrong with responding to a troll with another troll is there?<< — Steve If only they would go off together and beat each other to death and leave the rest of us alone.

You republithugs are really into violence… — Harry Krause The only things that I can tell you is that every case I have reviewed I have been comfortable with the innocence or guilt of the person that I’ve looked at. I do not believe we’ve put a guilty … I mean innocent person to death in the state of Texas. -GW Bush

Response:

There are and were plenty of quality minority judges who could have been raised to Associate Justice. Instead, we got a dimwit. A judge Bush likes.

And we have another justice who apparently rides to court on her broom. — Skipper

Response:

Nothing wrong with responding to a troll with another troll is there? If only they would go off together and beat each other to death and leave the rest of us alone.

Which bar admitted you, sweetie? — Skipper

Response:

First of all Harry, stop being such a racist, bigoted pig. Just because Justice Thomas doesn’t meet your (and most libs) idea of what an African-American should be(beholden to the new Massa-the Demonrat party) does not give you the right to utter such garbage. Secondly, you are not worthy to serve as the wiping device for Justice Thomas’ gluteal cleft. Ted – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Not a peep out of Thomas this time, not a peep out of him last time. Every other justice is in the fray, peppering both sides with questions. Thomas, of course, is the kind of Associate Justice Dubya Dumb likes…he’s got his eyes, ears and mouth shut. — Harry Krause We ought to make the pie higher. -GW Bush

Response:

Peggie, Ouch, I have never seen Harry get to you like this.  The thing that amazes me about this is how biased everyone sees the issues, based upon their party affiliations, including Chuck Gould who normally tries to avoid off topic wars. I do have to admit that I am the only person who is really completely unbiased, and I know Bush should win.  ;) — Jim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Not a peep out of Thomas this time, not a peep out of him last time. Every other justice is in the fray, peppering both sides with questions. Thomas, of course, is the kind of Associate Justice Dubya Dumb likes…he’s got his eyes, ears and mouth shut. Or perhaps he’s got his eyes and ears open open, but keeping his mouth shut…Unlike Harry, whose mouth is the only thing he keeps open.

Response:

I obviously have too much time on my hands these days…’cuz I never got into off topic discussions before either! Peggie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Peggie, Ouch, I have never seen Harry get to you like this.  The thing that amazes me about this is how biased everyone sees the issues, based upon their party affiliations, including Chuck Gould who normally tries to avoid off topic wars. I do have to admit that I am the only person who is really completely unbiased, and I know Bush should win.  ;) — Jim Not a peep out of Thomas this time, not a peep out of him last time. Every other justice is in the fray, peppering both sides with questions. Thomas, of course, is the kind of Associate Justice Dubya Dumb likes…he’s got his eyes, ears and mouth shut. Or perhaps he’s got his eyes and ears open open, but keeping his mouth shut…Unlike Harry, whose mouth is the only thing he keeps open.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I obviously have too much time on my hands these days…’cuz I never got into off topic discussions before either! Peggie Peggie, Ouch, I have never seen Harry get to you like this.  The thing that amazes me about this is how biased everyone sees the issues, based upon their party affiliations, including Chuck Gould who normally tries to avoid off topic wars. I do have to admit that I am the only person who is really completely unbiased, and I know Bush should win.  ;) — Jim Not a peep out of Thomas this time, not a peep out of him last time. Every other justice is in the fray, peppering both sides with questions. Thomas, of course, is the kind of Associate Justice Dubya Dumb likes…he’s got his eyes, ears and mouth shut. Or perhaps he’s got his eyes and ears open open, but keeping his mouth shut…Unlike Harry, whose mouth is the only thing he keeps open.

What a delight to be insulted by the rec.boats Queen of Head. — Harry Krause We’ll let our friends be the peacekeepers and the great country called America will be the pacemakers. -GW Bush

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <SNIP That’s why GWB works out in the gym every day.  If it comes down to it, he’s ready to kick some Gore booty. BillS Are you kidding? Dubya Dumb is a short little twerp and because of his years of drug and booze abuse, his reflexes are shot, too. He does twitch nicely. — Harry Krause The short wirey guys are the ones you gotta watch out for.  They get in close because you’re overconfident and the next thing you know they’re punching you in the kidneys and head buttin’ your sternum.  When you try to grab em they’ll dart between you legs, kick you behind the knee and you’re down before you know it. Gore is too big and slow with one eye always on the camera while he’s thinking to himself;  "did you guys get the shot?  Is this a cool pose or what?"  It would be like Jackie Chan against Steven Segal. BillS

I was thinking more along the lines of Sugar Ray Leonard versus Lennox Lewis. — Harry Krause This is still a dangerous world. It’s a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mential losses. -GW Bush

Response:

Dubya Dumb is a short little twerp and because of his years

of drug and booze abuse, his reflexes are shot, too. He does twitch nicely.<< — Lu Powell Maybe he has Benign Essential Tremor.  It’s harmless, and doesn’t progress into anything serious.

Response:

<SNIP That’s why GWB works out in the gym every day.  If it comes down to it, he’s ready to kick some Gore booty. BillS Are you kidding? Dubya Dumb is a short little twerp and because of his years of drug and booze abuse, his reflexes are shot, too. He does twitch nicely. — Harry Krause

The short wirey guys are the ones you gotta watch out for.  They get in close because you’re overconfident and the next thing you know they’re punching you in the kidneys and head buttin’ your sternum.  When you try to grab em they’ll dart between you legs, kick you behind the knee and you’re down before you know it. Gore is too big and slow with one eye always on the camera while he’s thinking to himself;  "did you guys get the shot?  Is this a cool pose or what?"  It would be like Jackie Chan against Steven Segal. BillS —

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Nothing wrong with responding to a troll with another troll is there?<< — Steve If only they would go off together and beat each other to death and leave the rest of us alone. You republithugs are really into violence… That’s why GWB works out in the gym every day.  If it comes down to it, he’s ready to kick some Gore booty. BillS

Are you kidding? Dubya Dumb is a short little twerp and because of his years of drug and booze abuse, his reflexes are shot, too. He does twitch nicely. — Harry Krause When I was coming up, it was a dangerous world, and you knew exactly who they were, he said. It was us vs. them, and it was clear who them was. Today, we are not so sure who the they are, but we know they’re there. -GW Bush

Response:

Poor Hairy. Must be terribly frustrating, being perfect in such an imperfect world…. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Nothing wrong with responding to a troll with another troll is there?<< — Steve If only they would go off together and beat each other to death and leave the rest of us alone. You republithugs are really into violence… That’s why GWB works out in the gym every day.  If it comes down to it, he’s ready to kick some Gore booty. BillS

Are you kidding? Dubya Dumb is a short little twerp and because of his years of drug and booze abuse, his reflexes are shot, too. He does twitch nicely. — Harry Krause When I was coming up, it was a dangerous world, and you knew exactly who they were, he said. It was us vs. them, and it was clear who them was. Today, we are not so sure who the they are, but we know they’re there. -GW Bush

Response:

Nothing wrong with responding to a troll with another troll is there?<< — Steve If only they would go off together and beat each other to death and leave the rest of us alone. You republithugs are really into violence…

That’s why GWB works out in the gym every day.  If it comes down to it, he’s ready to kick some Gore booty. BillS —

Response:

I obviously have too much time on my hands these days…’cuz I never got

into off topic discussions before either! << — Peggie Obviously your boat is winterized.  That makes all of us a little crazy.

Response:

Nope…I haven’t winterized but once in 15 years. Had the boat out on Saturday, in fact. However, I am about to be boatless for the first time in at least 15 years…I’ve accepted an offer on her. Saturday was actually the sea trial…survey is scheduled for Wednesday. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I obviously have too much time on my hands these days…’cuz I never got into off topic discussions before either! << — Peggie Obviously your boat is winterized.  That makes all of us a little crazy.

Response:

I am about to be boatless for the first time in at least 15 years.<< —

Peggie OK, then that’s what’s making you crazy, not winterizing!

Response:

I am about to be boatless for the first time in at least 15 years.<< — Peggie OK, then that’s what’s making you crazy, not winterizing!

No…I just haven’t quite figured out what to do with myself, now that I don’t have to work 14 hours a day.

Response:

No…I just haven’t quite figured out what to do with myself, now that I don’t have to work 14 hours a day. …buy a boat?

I HAVE a boat…at least until the sale closes. A friend at work boat a repo at auction, and had a great deal of fun getting it back into good condition.

Peter, I spent the last 4 years turning a boat I bought in non-running and unihabitable condition into the boat you now see on her website. In fact, when he was done, he was sort of bored — their wasn’t enough to do.

Which is at least one of the reasons I’ve sold it. He sold it, and is looking for another.

Imagine how bored he’d be if he he no longer goes to work every day either.   However, I’m just in transition…exploring opportunities. This too shall pass. Peggie http://www.solitairef32.homestead.com/

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You gotta remember I live in Oklahoma USA….cattle is king around here…although I know Aussies are serious contributors.  I even have Kayla trained…"what’s for dinner Kayla?"  she replies "oh I don’t know, something with hamburger meat"  It’s cheap and versitile…do I sound like a commercial for the beef trade yet? LOL R Just kidding.  I hope to heck no one ever tells me to refrain from eating meat…we live on hamburger meat…LOL On behalf of the Australian cattle producers who supply most of it, I thank you.   Ian Robin When your unemployed hamburger meet comes in handy.

Confess your sins.  Turn from your sins.  Believe in your heart.  Ask Jesus to save you.

Response:

Listen freak…no one yanked your chain.  YOU are unemployed.  Neither I or my husband are.  Get this through your thick head.  I do NOT want you to reply to me, antagonize me or harass me.  I would like for you to go away.  I do NOT understand how you can even log on here every day…then again it is between here and a few other choice places that you do…been visiting a lot of alt.sex ng’s lately haven’t you donny? Oh and there was that one…what was it?  Hmmm…somewhere to do with computers for sale, and then a few I figure must not have been you since they were normal sites.  Don’t think just because you don’t use the same screen name and such that we can’t figure out where you have been.  I wonder though?  Is it cable, DSL or just boredom that keeps your ip the same for so long? R Robin When your unemployed hamburger meet comes in handy.

Robin "Anyone who thinks they’re important is usually just a pompous moron who can’t deal with his or her own pathetic insignificance and the fact that what they do is meaningless and inconsequential…"   William Thomas

Response:

We also eat lots of sandwiches to.  When you have only one paycheck its tough. dc Confess your sins.  Turn from your sins.  Believe in your heart.  Ask Jesus to save you.

Response:

You gotta remember I live in Oklahoma USA….cattle is king around here…although I know Aussies are serious contributors.  I even have Kayla trained…"what’s for dinner Kayla?"  she replies "oh I don’t know, something with hamburger meat"  It’s cheap and versitile…do I sound like a commercial for the beef trade yet? LOL R

I doubt they would be grinding up good USA prime beef when they can use cheap old rogue bull meat from central Oz. <G Always ask for 3RT grade. That means that the carcass has been run over and tenderised by at least 3 road trains (prime mover pulling Ian

Response:

Just kidding.  I hope to heck no one ever tells me to refrain from eating meat…we live on hamburger meat…LOL

On behalf of the Australian cattle producers who supply most of it, I thank you.   Ian

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You gotta remember I live in Oklahoma USA….cattle is king around here…although I know Aussies are serious contributors.  I even have Kayla trained…"what’s for dinner Kayla?"  she replies "oh I don’t know, something with hamburger meat"  It’s cheap and versitile…do I sound like a commercial for the beef trade yet? LOL R Just kidding.  I hope to heck no one ever tells me to refrain from eating meat…we live on hamburger meat…LOL On behalf of the Australian cattle producers who supply most of it, I thank you.   Ian Robin

Jeez, Robin, you’re not afraid of Mad Cow Disease?? Thats my newest paranoia now…last year it was Ecoli….it’s gotta be something, you know      lorri

Response:

You gotta remember I live in Oklahoma USA….cattle is king around here…although I know Aussies are serious contributors.  I even have Kayla trained…"what’s for dinner Kayla?"  she replies "oh I don’t know, something with hamburger meat"  It’s cheap and versitile…do I sound like a commercial for the beef trade yet? LOL R Just kidding.  I hope to heck no one ever tells me to refrain from eating meat…we live on hamburger meat…LOL On behalf of the Australian cattle producers who supply most of it, I thank you.   Ian

Robin

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hello friends: It is almost time for my visit with my pdoc. Actually I must call and confirm the date, some time at the end of November. I’m going to get in shit by him but who cares!!! He wanted me to walk 3 – 5 miles a day and fill up on salad and refrain from eating meat. I’ll tell ya, if I did those 3 – 5 miles I would not be around for my next appointment. He would be treating me from the ditch on the side of the road. LOL I’m going to be making the Zoloft for three years and I am on the highest dosage. I wonder if I will suffer any withdrawal symptoms, I also wonder how this switch will take place. All I know is I will no longer be hungry 24 hours a day and the love will return, if ya know what I mean. LOL Hey, that is my excuse! That damn Zoloft was making me so hungry that is why I couldn’t cut back. HEHEHE So, I should have a wonderful Christmas. What a shitty time to switch meds! No doubt I will not be feeling the full effects of Celexa until after Christmas. Oh well I will just stay sedated on benzo’s. HEHEHE If 200mg is the maximum allowable dosage for Zoloft, what is the equivalent in Celexa? Going to bed. Hopefully I’ll sleep. That’s another thing, I cannot sleep on Zoloft. I’m tired but cannot fall asleep. I guess the dose is too high. I used to be able to sleep on 100 and 150mg. Anyway, GOOD NIGHT ALL! Paula

Hi Paula, As I understand it you’re changing to Celexa mainly because of the hunger pangs that Zoloft produces and the weight increase that results. That may help, I don’t know, its probably a very individual thing. However, I am concerned that you seem to need the max Zoloft dose to treat your anxiety. ADs seem to have a dose ‘window’ range at which they produce the maximum effect. Taking more than this ‘window’ range can be just as counterproductive as taking too little. Celexa seems to affect basically the same receptors as Zoloft, so you shouldn’t get much of a withdrawal effect because of compatibility issues. It should begin working virtually immediately. I don’t know of any dose equivalency tables, but I assume you doctor wouldn’t want you to start out on the max dose (60mg), but probably will suggest 40mg/day, which is the usual therapeutic dose. That may mean that there is a slight withdrawal effect, but you probably won’t notice too much. The benzos will help if needed. Celexa isn’t particularly sedating, so you might not get any direct benefit, but once its working it may alleviate whatever is causing your insomnia. Good luck Ian

Response:

I thought I would put a plus by your name since you brought it up before LOL Just kidding.  I hope to heck no one ever tells me to refrain from eating meat…we live on hamburger meat…LOL Anyhow…good luck with your med switch…~  It might not be as bad as you think changing over….they have changed Wes’ meds from high doses of one to what seems like a low dose of another and not had serious side effects because of the differences in the meds.  Stay positive about it!  I bet you make it through with flying colors R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hello friends: It is almost time for my visit with my pdoc. Actually I must call and confirm the date, some time at the end of November. I’m going to get in shit by him but who cares!!! He wanted me to walk 3 – 5 miles a day and fill up on salad and refrain from eating meat. I’ll tell ya, if I did those 3 – 5 miles I would not be around for my next appointment. He would be treating me from the ditch on the side of the road. LOL I’m going to be making the Zoloft for three years and I am on the highest dosage. I wonder if I will suffer any withdrawal symptoms, I also wonder how this switch will take place. All I know is I will no longer be hungry 24 hours a day and the love will return, if ya know what I mean. LOL Hey, that is my excuse! That damn Zoloft was making me so hungry that is why I couldn’t cut back. HEHEHE So, I should have a wonderful Christmas. What a shitty time to switch meds! No doubt I will not be feeling the full effects of Celexa until after Christmas. Oh well I will just stay sedated on benzo’s. HEHEHE If 200mg is the maximum allowable dosage for Zoloft, what is the equivalent in Celexa? Going to bed. Hopefully I’ll sleep. That’s another thing, I cannot sleep on Zoloft. I’m tired but cannot fall asleep. I guess the dose is too high. I used to be able to sleep on 100 and 150mg. Anyway, GOOD NIGHT ALL! Paula

Robin

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I’m sorry you have to switch meds Paula.  I  know I really hate being on these meds, although they have gotten me through some rough times.  I hope the transition goes smoothly for you. Hugs, Di

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello friends: It is almost time for my visit with my pdoc. Actually I must call and confirm the date, some time at the end of November. I’m going to get in shit by him but who cares!!! He wanted me to walk 3 – 5 miles a day and fill up on salad and refrain from eating meat. I’ll tell ya, if I did those 3 – 5 miles I would not be around for my next appointment. He would be treating me from the ditch on the side of the road. LOL I’m going to be making the on Zoloft for three years and I am on the highest dosage. I wonder if I will suffer any withdrawal symptoms, I also wonder how this switch will take place. All I know is I will no longer be hungry 24 hours a day and the love will return, if ya know what I mean. LOL Hey, that is my excuse! That damn Zoloft was making me so hungry that is why I couldn’t cut back. HEHEHE So, I should have a wonderful Christmas. What a shitty time to switch meds! No doubt I will not be feeling the full effects of Celexa until after Christmas. Oh well I will just stay sedated on benzo’s. HEHEHE If 200mg is the maximum allowable dosage for Zoloft, what is the equivalent in Celexa? Going to bed. Hopefully I’ll sleep. That’s another thing, I cannot sleep on Zoloft. I’m tired but cannot fall asleep. I guess the dose is too high. I used to be able to sleep on 100 and 150mg. Anyway, GOOD NIGHT ALL! Paula

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Hello friends: It is almost time for my visit with my pdoc. Actually I must call and confirm the date, some time at the end of November. I’m going to get in shit by him but who cares!!! He wanted me to walk 3 – 5 miles a day and fill up on salad and refrain from eating meat. I’ll tell ya, if I did those 3 – 5 miles I would not be around for my next appointment. He would be treating me from the ditch on the side of the road. LOL I’m going to be making the Zoloft for three years and I am on the highest dosage. I wonder if I will suffer any withdrawal symptoms, I also wonder how this switch will take place. All I know is I will no longer be hungry 24 hours a day and the love will return, if ya know what I mean. LOL Hey, that is my excuse! That damn Zoloft was making me so hungry that is why I couldn’t cut back. HEHEHE So, I should have a wonderful Christmas. What a shitty time to switch meds! No doubt I will not be feeling the full effects of Celexa until after Christmas. Oh well I will just stay sedated on benzo’s. HEHEHE If 200mg is the maximum allowable dosage for Zoloft, what is the equivalent in Celexa? Going to bed. Hopefully I’ll sleep. That’s another thing, I cannot sleep on Zoloft. I’m tired but cannot fall asleep. I guess the dose is too high. I used to be able to sleep on 100 and 150mg. Anyway, GOOD NIGHT ALL! Paula

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x-no archive : yes Hi Cheryl – I am the OTHER Cheryl – Hi ASED! I haven’t been on the Board much lately, but I am the Old doll, the redhead, the former Binge eater – just didn’t want to confuse anyone – maybe one of us could change our name on the Board – what do you think ? I just don’t want anyone to be confused with two of us here !! With love and support to you all – Cheryl.

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there is a new drug that was approved in this country (US) in July called Celexa.  my pdoc just told me about it because i was having bad side effects from effexor.  i’ve only been reading about it on the intenet…it’s still so new.  look it up under any search engine.  i can’t remember how it works but it is classified as an antidepressant. cheers, cheryl – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Has anyone heard of this medication?  Not sure if it is Selexa, or Xelexa, my doc said it is common in Europe, and is thinking of having me try it, as I can’t seem to increase my dose of Paxil over 10mg, for the bingeing, and depression, and he said it isn’t a therapeutic dose.  Just wondering if anyone ever heard of it, and what the experiences were with it. Suzy

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Maybe you are thinking of "Zyprexa," or "Olanzapine," which is fairly new in the USA.  It is an antipsychotic which is being used sometimes to alleviate "delusional thinking" (body dysmorphia) and other aspects of EDs. –Connie   clixpix

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Has anyone heard of this medication?  Not sure if it is Selexa, or Xelexa, my doc said it is common in Europe, and is thinking of having me try it, as I can’t seem to increase my dose of Paxil over 10mg, for the bingeing, and depression, and he said it isn’t a therapeutic dose.  Just wondering if anyone ever heard of it, and what the experiences were with it. Suzy

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The doctor tells me it takes time for the meds to start to work, but after taking them for about 10 days I still am waiting for results.  

All the anti-depressents, incl. Zoloft, take 4 to 8 weeks to become fully effective. The reason is that they work by adjusting the number of receptors for one or more neurotransmitters and this takes time. As you’ve been on the 50mg. dose for a while now it may be best to stick with it rather than reduce to 25mg. The worst is probably nearly over. Ian    Ian<<atdragoncon<dotnet

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hello there… Me too on Zoloft and Xanax… Increasing to the 200Mg mark in a week I get the shakes every day about an Hour after I take the Zoloft ….I take a Xanax.5Mg at the same time……It helps. I also try to stay active as this helps to keep my mind on the Job at hand.I can get the kids up and go to work and nobody calls 911..LOL Hang in there and let us Know your progress    J

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I have been taking inc.amts (as prescribed by my doctor) of xanax (0.5mg  3 to 4 times a day) and zoloft (50mg a day) for newly diagnosed panic/anxiety disorder.  So far, I  only have brief periods of  lessened anxiety, but alot of jitters and shakiness, and I keep waiting for the next attack to come.  Does anyone have any similar experiences with these meds?  The doctor tells me it takes time for the meds to start to work, but after taking them for about 10 days I still am waiting for results.  I really appreciate any and all feedback.  Thanks again.

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I have been taking inc.amts (as prescribed by my doctor) of xanax (0.5mg  3 to 4 times a day) and zoloft (50mg a day) for newly diagnosed panic/anxiety disorder.  So far, I  only have brief periods of  lessened anxiety, but alot of jitters and shakiness, and I keep waiting for the next attack to come.  Does anyone have any similar experiences with these meds?  The doctor tells me it takes time for the meds to start to work, but after taking them for about 10 days I still am waiting for results.  I really appreciate any and all feedback. Thanks again.

That’s gonna be  starting next week.  I hope I don’t have the jitters.  I’m really scared in that respect.  But if it helps in the long run,lmk. I just hope that I can find a med combo that will make me a confident person again. Foote

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have been taking inc.amts (as prescribed by my doctor) of xanax (0.5mg  3 to 4 times a day) and zoloft (50mg a day) for newly diagnosed panic/anxiety disorder.  So far, I  only have brief periods of  lessened anxiety, but alot of jitters and shakiness, and I keep waiting for the next attack to come.  Does anyone have any similar experiences with these meds?  The doctor tells me it takes time for the meds to start to work, but after taking them for about 10 days I still am waiting for results.  I really appreciate any and all feedback. Thanks again. That’s gonna be  starting next week.  I hope I don’t have the jitters.  I’m really scared in that respect.  But if it helps in the long run,lmk. I just hope that I can find a med combo that will make me a confident person again. Foote

Hi there: I just wanted to add, I am a Zoloft/Xanax user too. To be honest, now I don’t want to interfere with what your doc said, but my doc started me off on 25mg, and told me to break the caplet open to halve it if needed, and then, again if needed, build up to 50 mg. So, it IS your body, and you might want to consider breaking your caplet into 25mg to start off with. Now, I take this at bedtime, along with 1mg of Xanax. I take 25mg of benadryl (prn) if I have a hard time getting to sleep. You also might find Zoloft gives you heart-burn, as it did me, and upset stomach. My doc just told me to take pepcid or zantac, which I have done, and it works just great. BTW, Zoloft is available in 25mg capsules, so if you find the 25mg works best for you, stick with it. My problem was I just kep’t on increasing my dose of ZOloft, up to 200mg a day, and I felt like a miserable zombie. Anyways, YMMV, and discuss any results or problems with your doctor. BTW, I would save the extra Xanax for the next day…if you run into some stressors or something, take it once or twice…depending on your day. Just make sure you get that 1mg at bedtime:-) Peace and best wishes.. James (3rd year Zoloft user (major)..hahah:) — "All of us get lost in the darkness… Dreamers learn to stear by the stars.." Neil Peart, Rush, "The Pass"

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hello all….I have receantly been diagnosed with PD… this is a scary thing!!!!!!!     I have been reading this NG for a week or so and seem to relate to many of you. I am studing up on this PD thing and "trying to stay vertical" I am on Zoloft and Xanax as needed. Just saying "Hello I have a problem" is enough to flip me out! Be gentle with me K? J

No problem J. Welcome to ASAP. Most of us are here because we have the same problem you do. It’s really difficult inthe beginning,but it does get better. Curious, do you have depression to? If not, why the Zoloft? Xanax works great for panic without any additional meds. And, with lots less )or no) side effects. Just something you might want to talk to your doc about. Your best bet is to talk topeople who are positive and supportive here. Ignore the flames and trolls. They come and go. Don’t let them get to you. Get the weekly FAQ and also visit lots of the great web sites that are out there. Like Arthur Anderon’s website! It’s one of the best. Educating yourself about this disorder is one of the best things you can do! Feel free to e-mail me if you’d like. Regards, Jen

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hello all….I have receantly been diagnosed with PD… this is a scary thing!!!!!!!     I have been reading this NG for a week or so and seem to relate to many of you. I am studing up on this PD thing and "trying to stay vertical" I am on Zoloft and Xanax as needed. Just saying "Hello I have a problem" is enough to flip me out! Be gentle with me K? J

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HI J!!! Sorry to hear you have become "One of us", but glad you found this NG all the same! Jen really said it best as far as educating yourself about panic/anxiety… The best thing you could do, at least for me anyway, is to read as much as you can. I found what was the scariest of all was the not knowing, the lack of understanding as to what was exactly a panic attack meant, what the terms were, etc. Once I understood what was taking place during an attack, I was able to then try and find ways to cope with them. Of course, I am still searching for ways, but…. I am on the Zoloft also… How are you doing with that? I bet at times you may feel a little lost…Dont get down! You will survive! Oh, and for what its worth.. Know the best thing about panic sufferers? They are probably the most understanding, caring, compassionate folk you will ever come across… What you were seeing, like Jen said, is the trouble makers…. Wishing you the best!! — Miriam     (These opinions are mine and mine alone… YMMV) Energizer bunny arrested, charged with battery. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – hello all….I have receantly been diagnosed with PD… this is a scary thing!!!!!!!     I have been reading this NG for a week or so and seem to relate to many of you. I am studing up on this PD thing and "trying to stay vertical" I am on Zoloft and Xanax as needed. Just saying "Hello I have a problem" is enough to flip me out! Be gentle with me K? J

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hello all….I have receantly been diagnosed with PD… this is a scary thing!!!!!!!     I have been reading this NG for a week or so and seem to relate to many of you. I am studing up on this PD thing and "trying to stay vertical" I am on Zoloft and Xanax as needed. Just saying "Hello I have a problem" is enough to flip me out! Be gentle with me K?

Hi, J – welcome to ASAP Glad to hear that you’re getting proper treatment and I hope you find this NG the valuable resource that so many of us have. — Gary Cooper

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JSmittie schreef: hello all….I have receantly been diagnosed with PD… this is a scary thing!!!!!!!     I have been reading this NG for a week or so and seem to relate to many of you. I am studing up on this PD thing and "trying to stay vertical" I am on Zoloft and Xanax as needed. Just saying "Hello I have a problem" is enough to flip me out! Be gentle with me K? J

Hi J! Don’t worry. You’ll find much knowledge and support here. It’s a shame that new people should have to worry about posting here these days. The only reason why anybody will not be gentle with someone else here is when this someone else is consciously posting desinformation or writing insulting posts just to disrupt the newsgroup. These people are called *trolls* in Internet lingo and they’re to be found in every newsgroup on Usenet. Don’t worry about them. How long have you been on Zoloft? Does it work for you? It’s often a good idea to take a benzo like Xanax in at least the initial stages of a AD like Zoloft, to let your body adjust itself to it. Hope that you will post more often! Philip

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Hi there!  I’ve only been here a little over 2 months, but some of the folks have been here literally for years.  So, there’s quite a lot of accumulated wisdom that has been of great help to me. I’m glad to have you here, "fellow newbie".  Just ignore the flame threads, delete the whole thread if it bothers you.  You’ll do fine. E. Brent Price

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -hello all….I have receantly been diagnosed with PD… this is a scary thing!!!!!!!     I have been reading this NG for a week or so and seem to relate to many of you. I am studing up on this PD thing and "trying to stay vertical" I am on Zoloft and Xanax as needed. Just saying "Hello I have a problem" is enough to flip me out! Be gentle with me K? J

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Hi J, I think the more you find out about PD the less you will be afraid…now you have a name for what you have been feeling, when I was diagnosed this summer and had the "names" spelled out for me, I felt a little "nuts", but now I DON’T feel that way. This isn’t some "head thing". For me trying to cope with it on my own was barely tolerable and now I am on the way to developing more appropriate methods of dealing with it. Keep reading and coming to this ng, there’s a lot of good info and support to be found here. Michelle says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -hello all….I have receantly been diagnosed with PD… this is a scary thing!!!!!!!     I have been reading this NG for a week or so and seem to relate to many of you. I am studing up on this PD thing and "trying to stay vertical" I am on Zoloft and Xanax as needed. Just saying "Hello I have a problem" is enough to flip me out! Be gentle with me K? J

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Howdy group.  I was just diagnosed with cervical dystonia last week. While I have had symptoms for YEARS all of the doctors I went to either could find nothing wrong or told me to "relax"! I am so happy to find this news group on here.  A big relief.  I did find a fantastic Neurologist who believed me and understood exactly what I was talking about.  We are currently trying a variety of oral medications to see if we can control it.  Of course as all of you know, with these types of medications come side-effects.  After being on one medication for 2 days, my husband said, "you don’t need to be on that, it will make you crazy." I don’t think my husband is understanding what dystonia is all about quite yet.  I am looking for some encouragement and am hoping to find it here. Thanks for letting me get a little bit off my mind…I hope I can be of help to other people here as well. Connie

Welcome to A.S.D., Connie!!!   We are so happy to meet you!  I am hoping that some of our ‘dystonia spouses’ will respond to your husband and his concerns.  We have found that significant others in our lifes often have a hard time watching us go through this process.  Connie, please know that all of us here at the n/g are more than eager to lend a listening ear, commiserate, and even laugh occasionally!!!  Please keep in touch!! TTYS, MB

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Howdy group.  I was just diagnosed with cervical dystonia last week. While I have had symptoms for YEARS all of the doctors I went to either could find nothing wrong or told me to "relax"! I am so happy to find this news group on here.  A big relief.  I did find a fantastic Neurologist who believed me and understood exactly what I was talking about.  We are currently trying a variety of oral medications to see if we can control it.  Of course as all of you know, with these types of medications come side-effects.  After being on one medication for 2 days, my husband said, "you don’t need to be on that, it will make you crazy." I don’t think my husband is understanding what dystonia is all about quite yet.  I am looking for some encouragement and am hoping to find it here. Thanks for letting me get a little bit off my mind…I hope I can be of help to other people here as well. Connie

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Howdy group.  I was just diagnosed with cervical dystonia last week. While I have had symptoms for YEARS all of the doctors I went to either could find nothing wrong or told me to "relax"! I am so happy to find this news group on here.  A big relief.  I did find a fantastic Neurologist who believed me and understood exactly what I was talking about.  We are currently trying a variety of oral medications to see if we can control it.  Of course as all of you know, with these types of medications come side-effects.  After being on one medication for 2 days, my husband said, "you don’t need to be on that, it will make you crazy." I don’t think my husband is understanding what dystonia is all about quite yet.  I am looking for some encouragement and am hoping to find it here. Thanks for letting me get a little bit off my mind…I hope I can be of help to other people here as well. Connie Welcome to A.S.D., Connie!!! We are so happy to meet you!  I am hoping that some of our ‘dystonia spouses’ will respond to your husband and his concerns.  We have found that significant others in our lifes often have a hard time watching us go through this process.  Connie, please know that all of us here at the n/g are more than eager to lend a listening ear, commiserate, and even laugh occasionally!!!  Please keep in touch!! TTYS, MB

Ok MB…I have been extremely busy the last month, but i have been lurking:)  so seeing this post I had to reply..Lacking the time to form a newsgroup for us sig/others & spouses i have formed an email chain. anyone who wishs to share in our letters please feel free to email me. It is indeed very hard to not be able to "fix " my wife and make everything ok.  We go through life one day at a time and I try to stay with what I am powerful over and accept what I am powerless to change. Not my words…they come from a 12 step group. but it helps me to cope.it also helps to keep up with the newsgroup and share with you all when I can.  It also makes me feel good to see that this group has helped my wife Aimee where I have not been able to, and I thank you all for that…:) John F

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Howdy group.  I was just diagnosed with cervical dystonia last week. While I have had symptoms for YEARS all of the doctors I went to either could find nothing wrong or told me to "relax"!

Hey I too have been there. After seeing approx. 6 specialists in the varies fields of medicine, I was finally diagonised with ST. I am so happy to find this news group on here.  A big relief.  I did find a fantastic Neurologist who believed me and understood exactly what I was talking about.  We are currently trying a variety of oral medications to see if we can control it.  Of course as all of you know, with these types of medications come side-effects.  After being on one medication for 2 days, my husband said, "you don’t need to be on that, it will make you crazy."

I remember those days indeed. Taking  all kinds of oral medications for approx a 4-6 month timespan to see if any worked, unfortunately in my case none did, but that isn’t too say that you will not have positive results. We share a strange disorder indeed. I don’t think my husband is understanding what dystonia is all about quite yet.  I am looking for some encouragement and am hoping to find it here.

My wife/family/friends also did not, in fact I didn’t, but we all know alot more now : ) Thanks for letting me get a little bit off my mind…I hope I can be of help to other people here as well.

I am sure you will and am happy too meet you. There is an chatline where many people with Dystonia meet every Wednesday night at 9:00pm EST in the channel named #sd. The chatline program is mIRC. If you don’t have it but would like to know where/how to get it, just say so and all the information will be sent too you here. God bless Mark

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The basal ganglia may be like a computer which, if you have dystonia, malfunctions.

Are you trying to tell us that not only do we have dystonia but our brains are running Windows ‘95?! <g (err… nobody from MicroSoft is on here, are they…?) Cathy. —  (—-)                                                     (—-)   "  "         http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~collisoc          "  "

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Howdy group.  I was just diagnosed with cervical dystonia last week. While I have had symptoms for YEARS all of the doctors I went to either could find nothing wrong or told me to "relax"! I am so happy to find this news group on here.  A big relief.  I did find a fantastic Neurologist who believed me and understood exactly what I was talking about.  We are currently trying a variety of oral medications to see if we can control it.  Of course as all of you know, with these types of medications come side-effects. on’t think my husband is understanding what dystonia is all about quite yet.

Dystonia is a disorder of movement.  It is frequently misunderstood  by the public and misdiagnosed by the medical profession because  of its complexity.  It is a syndrome of sustained muscle contractions frequently causing twisting and repetitive movements or abnormal  postures.  The cause of these abnormal postures is thought to be  problems in the area of the brain known as the basal ganglia.  Messages to initiate the correct muscle contractions required for specific movements are thought to original in this region.   The basal ganglia may be like a computer which, if you have dystonia, malfunctions. There are no laboratory tests which can confirm the diagnosis of dystonia.  The diagnosis is made on the basis of clinical neurological history and examination. Thanks for letting me get a little bit off my mind…I hope I can be of help to other people here as well. Connie

Gene

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A small correction using the computer industry lingo is that our "Operating System" has a small bug that causes intermittent failures of the computer itself.  Consequently, a number of highly paid researchers (Systems Analysts) are attempting to debug the system but so far have not been successful.  We may need to hire more competent personnel. Larry Barlar

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Are you trying to tell us that not only do we have dystonia but our brains are running Windows ‘95?! <g That’s a 32 bit application MB

Hey Larry!  You catch that?!  The gal’s getting smart on us! <g Cathy. —  (—-)                                                     (—-)   "  "         http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~collisoc          "  "

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I am so happy to find this place on the internet–I was diagnosed with dystonia in the upper extremities and essential tremor of the head 2 years ago. It has been a struggle to finally get a diagnosis and even more of a struggle to find out more about it. Thank goodness I stumbled upon this newsgroup. I would like to exchange e-mail with anyone who feels inspired to write and share their experiences with me — I have felt so all alone through all of this. Barbara Zalesny

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The basal ganglia may be like a computer which, if you have dystonia, malfunctions. Are you trying to tell us that not only do we have dystonia but our brains are running Windows ‘95?! <g (err… nobody from MicroSoft is on here, are they…?) Cathy.

That’s a 32 bit application MB

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