Question:

Please, does anyone know of a source besides Ford for Power Door Lock actuators. Howabout a way to disable them so the door lock wont stick in the open position? Anybody have any info on these?

Response:

Please, does anyone know of a source besides Ford for Power Door Lock actuators. Howabout a way to disable them so the door lock wont stick in the open position? Anybody have any info on these?

I get mine at the local junkyard. Usually about $5 each. if you just want to disable them, remove the actuator arm(probably easier to pull the motor out).

Response:

Please, does anyone know of a source besides Ford for Power Door Lock actuators. Howabout a way to disable them so the door lock wont stick in the open position? Anybody have any info on these?

Any stereo shop that installs alarms will have generic actuators that I’m sure you can make work in place of the Ford units. I doubt these aftermarket ones are better than the stock Ford pieces though. My experience with them is that they can be very hard to turn with the key, unless of course they’re hooked into the alarm and you never have to use the key… Tom Shaver Powerdyne + TW

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Please, does anyone know of a source besides Ford for Power Door Lock actuators. Howabout a way to disable them so the door lock wont stick in the open position? Anybody have any info on these? Any stereo shop that installs alarms will have generic actuators that I’m sure you can make work in place of the Ford units. I doubt these aftermarket ones are better than the stock Ford pieces though. My experience with them is that they can be very hard to turn with the key, unless of course they’re hooked into the alarm and you never have to use the key… Tom Shaver Powerdyne + TW

You can easily remove them if you don’t want them installed or if their causing problems with the normal operation of the key unlocking/locking the door from the outside.  You’ll have to remove the door panels.  They’re fastened in a plastic brace by little rubber boots.  Once you see the actuator you’ll notice how easy it is to remove.  If you want to replace them but don’t want to pay FORDMOCO’s price for new ones I replaced mine by going to a junk yard/spare parts yard and they found some for me for 20 bucks a piece.  Works great! Like new.

Response:

~ ~Please, does anyone know of a source besides Ford for Power Door Lock ~actuators. Howabout a way to disable them so the door lock wont stick in ~the open position? Anybody have any info on these? ~ ~Any stereo shop that installs alarms will have generic actuators that I’m sure ~you can make work in place of the Ford units. I doubt these aftermarket ones are ~better than the stock Ford pieces though. My experience with them is that they ~can be very hard to turn with the key, unless of course they’re hooked into the ~alarm and you never have to use the key… ~ ~Tom Shaver ~Powerdyne + TW ~You can easily remove them if you don’t want them installed or if ~their causing problems with the normal operation of the key ~unlocking/locking the door from the outside.  You’ll have to remove ~the door panels.  They’re fastened in a plastic brace by little rubber ~boots.  Once you see the actuator you’ll notice how easy it is to ~remove.  If you want to replace them but don’t want to pay FORDMOCO’s ~price for new ones I replaced mine by going to a junk yard/spare parts ~yard and they found some for me for 20 bucks a piece.  Works great! ~Like new. For cars that weren’t originally equipped with power door locks, is the necessary wiring already in the door?  I’ve been toying with the idea of installing them on my LX so I can get one of those lazy-man FOBs connected to the alarm to lock/unlock the doors from inside when it’s cold/rainy and such.  :-) Chris — Christopher Mauritz         | For info on internet access: IBS Interactive, Inc.       | http://www.interactive.net/

Response:

Question:

    I’ve recently started taking Serevent and Flovent. In spite of rinsing my mouth after each use I have some rough, whitish, patches in my mouth. Can this be thrush? My Dr. prescribed antibiotics but it seems to be getting worse and now I’m wondering… If this is Thrush, isn’t it related to yeast infection? I know that antibiotics can cause yeast infections. I need to call the Dr. back this morning but I’m wondering if it’s time for a new Dr…. Debi

I’ve had Asthma for years and years.  The inhalers can cause thrush and I’ve had it a time or two. I’ve got a habit of taking the inhalers without actually getting out of bed in the middle of the night.  Once I took the pills that they give you for other yeast infections when it was fairly severe.  Usually There is a mouthwash that is prescribed that will kill off the yeast.  (Also when I’ve had thrush it’s been more in by thriat than in my mouth.)  Also, I’ve used the inhalers for 20+ years and have only had thrush maybe four times. Also, take it easy on your mouth.  A sip of water or swish is enough. Your mouth could be irritated from over brushing or from too harsh toothpaste and mouthwash ingredients.  The worst mouth problems I’ve had were caused by an anti-tartar mouthwash my former dentist pushed. My current dentist says lots of prople can’t tolerate them. Jo Before you buy.

Response:

No, it’s time to inform your Dr. about your symptoms.  If, upon examination, your Dr. determines you do indeed have Thrush there are various medicinal remedys available, as well as personal hygiene regimens you can adhere to for lessening the possiblity of future Thrush outbreaks.  Preventing Thrush outbreaks is much more your responsibility than your Dr.’s.

     Maybe you can help me. The insert that came with the medication said to rinse my mouth with water. I’ve been doing that and then brushing and flossing. What else should I be doing?     I’m still waiting for a call back from the Dr.’s office. Debi

Response:

(Debi) writes: No, it’s time to inform your Dr. about your symptoms.  If, upon examination, your Dr. determines you do indeed have Thrush there are various medicinal remedys available, as well as personal hygiene regimens you can adhere to for lessening the possiblity of future Thrush outbreaks.  Preventing Thrush outbreaks is much more your responsibility than your Dr.’s. Maybe you can help me. The insert that came with the medication said to rinse my mouth with water. I’ve been doing that and then brushing and flossing.

That may help in preventing a Thrush episode form occuring but will do nothing to control it once it’s begun. What else should I be doing?    I’m still waiting for a call back from the Dr.’s office.

You need to be seen by a medical professional as quickly as possible.  The longer a Thrush outbreak is left unattended the more difficult it is to place into remission.  If your regular health care professional can’t see you, recommend a covering physician or prescribe something over the phone, for whatever reason, then proceed to seek help elsewhere…. maybe your local hospital ER.  The white patches seen inside your mouth are not so problematic as those not so easily seen, those deeper down in your throat. Sheldon On a recent Night Court rerun, Judge Harry Stone had a wonderful line: "I try to keep an open mind, but not so open that my brains fall out."

Response:

    I’ve recently started taking Serevent and Flovent. In spite of rinsing my mouth after each use I have some rough, whitish, patches in my mouth. Can this be thrush? My Dr. prescribed antibiotics but it seems to be getting worse and now I’m wondering… If this is Thrush, isn’t it related to yeast infection? I know that antibiotics can cause yeast infections. I need to call the Dr. back this morning but I’m wondering if it’s time for a new Dr…. Debi

Response:

(Debi) writes:   I’ve recently started taking Serevent and Flovent. In spite of rinsing my mouth after each use I have some rough, whitish, patches in my mouth. Can this be thrush?

Probably so. My Dr. prescribed antibiotics but it seems to be getting worse and now I’m wondering… If this is Thrush, isn’t it related to yeast infection?

Thrush IS a yeast infection. I know that antibiotics can cause yeast infections. I need to call the Dr. back this morning but I’m wondering if it’s time for a new Dr…. Debi

No, it’s time to inform your Dr. about your symptoms.  If, upon examination, your Dr. determines you do indeed have Thrush there are various medicinal remedys available, as well as personal hygiene regimens you can adhere to for lessening the possiblity of future Thrush outbreaks.  Preventing Thrush outbreaks is much more your responsibility than your Dr.’s. Sheldon On a recent Night Court rerun, Judge Harry Stone had a wonderful line: "I try to keep an open mind, but not so open that my brains fall out."

Response:

Anyone here ever get oral thrush from using Albuterol? I have had a devil of a time.  Coated toungue and roof-of-mouth sores.  Also some kind of virus (feels like a cold) which has knocked me out. I have "exercise-induced" asthma (reactive airwaves) and take a few puffs of Albuterol before walking on treadmill, etc. This is the only thing I can think that could have caused the thrush (yes, I know I "should" have been rinsing my mouth out) and not rinsing after has been a hard lesson to learn. Doc gave me Nystain and Diflucan.  Seems to be clearing up, but I feel like crap.  Not sure if that is a result of the meds or the virus. Ugh.  Anybody have experience with this? — Sal Sessa / Events Photography Dallas, TX / USA

Response:

We started adding Acidophilus tablets to our daughters milk every morning. It’s a capsule so it can be opened and dumped.  I’m sure an adult can just take it like a regular pill. It adds the normal flora back to the body that can help prevent yeast infections.  It’s worked well to keep down the thrush in her mouth as well as the yeast infections in her privates. Ursula – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone here ever get oral thrush from using Albuterol? I have had a devil of a time.  Coated toungue and roof-of-mouth sores. Also some kind of virus (feels like a cold) which has knocked me out. I have "exercise-induced" asthma (reactive airwaves) and take a few puffs of Albuterol before walking on treadmill, etc. This is the only thing I can think that could have caused the thrush (yes, I know I "should" have been rinsing my mouth out) and not rinsing after has been a hard lesson to learn. Doc gave me Nystain and Diflucan.  Seems to be clearing up, but I feel like crap.  Not sure if that is a result of the meds or the virus. Ugh.  Anybody have experience with this? — Sal Sessa / Events Photography Dallas, TX / USA

Response:

We started adding Acidophilus tablets to our daughters milk every morning.

Thanks. I’m doing the same.  Also trying to avoid the little beasties favorite foods, e.g., sugars, milk, starches, etc. — Sal Sessa / Events Photography Dallas, TX / USA

Response:

Try using an AEROCHAMBER, they have been proven in multiple studies to reduce oropharyngeal deposition over and over again. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone here ever get oral thrush from using Albuterol? I have had a devil of a time.  Coated toungue and roof-of-mouth sores.  Also some kind of virus (feels like a cold) which has knocked me out. I have "exercise-induced" asthma (reactive airwaves) and take a few puffs of Albuterol before walking on treadmill, etc. This is the only thing I can think that could have caused the thrush (yes, I know I "should" have been rinsing my mouth out) and not rinsing after has been a hard lesson to learn. Doc gave me Nystain and Diflucan.  Seems to be clearing up, but I feel like crap.  Not sure if that is a result of the meds or the virus. Ugh.  Anybody have experience with this? — Sal Sessa / Events Photography Dallas, TX / USA

Response:

Albuterol does nothing to affect the oral flora and is not an immune modulator and thus cannot cause thrush. I don’ think that thrush makes one systemically ill but I am not certain of this. Other things can of course.

That’s what I thought also! I guess it must be a virus that I have, and what I think is thrush is actually just "cold sores," or something. Doctor said "thrush," though. Thanks. — Sal Sessa / Events Photography Dallas, TX / USA

Response:

Thrush does coat your tongue and throat with white areas.  I believe that we were told that Asthmacort and not Proventil can cause it…..the aerochamber works for our son. As well as washing his mouth out. — Suzie Politeness is the art of choosing among one’s real thoughts. —  Abel Stevens

Response:

Albuterol is not clinically shown to cause thrush. Are you taking any other medications?

Response:

Albuterol is not clinically shown to cause thrush. Are you taking any other medications?

Not really.  A little Flonase here and there, but lately almost "none" to speak of. I really don’t know how I got it (gone now, thanks to Nystatin & Diflucan.) Got a virus along with it that lasted about 10 days. Go figure. — Sal Sessa / Events Photography Dallas, TX / USA

Response:

If you have systemic Candida, the nystain and Diflucan would cause burn off which would make you feel like crap. check this web sit and you’ll learn about Candida – http://infoseek.go.com/?win=_search&sv=M6&lk=noframes&nh=10&ud9=IE5&q… da&oq=&url=http%3A//www.panix.com/%7Ecandida/&ti=The+Candida+Page&top= .  A friend of mine had the very same thing and he is going through Candid treatment.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone here ever get oral thrush from using Albuterol? I have had a devil of a time.  Coated toungue and roof-of-mouth sores. Also some kind of virus (feels like a cold) which has knocked me out. I have "exercise-induced" asthma (reactive airwaves) and take a few puffs of Albuterol before walking on treadmill, etc. This is the only thing I can think that could have caused the thrush (yes, I know I "should" have been rinsing my mouth out) and not rinsing after has been a hard lesson to learn. Doc gave me Nystain and Diflucan.  Seems to be clearing up, but I feel like crap.  Not sure if that is a result of the meds or the virus. Ugh.  Anybody have experience with this? — Sal Sessa / Events Photography Dallas, TX / USA

Response:

Oh another good product which I use is Yeast Defense.  You can get it in the nutrition part of your supermarket.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We started adding Acidophilus tablets to our daughters milk every morning. Thanks. I’m doing the same.  Also trying to avoid the little beasties favorite foods, e.g., sugars, milk, starches, etc. — Sal Sessa / Events Photography Dallas, TX / USA

Response:

Jackie, That’s really interesting and a new one for me.  I’m so glad there was something you could put together and that it did help. God Bless, Judy

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks, Judy! I did finally speak with a nurse and she suggested a home solution to tide us over until I can get out to get it (DH got home too late to pick it up). Because this is the first prescription I’ve needed for the baby, the pharmacy needs my insurance card and of course the pharmacy (CVS) where the prescription was called in to doesn’t do deliveries ( For anybody else out there who might be interested in the home remedy, here it is: 1/4 tsp. of Baking Soda 1 to 2 drops of Ivory Liquid (YES, dish soap… almost any brand of the liquid dish soaps will do) 8 ounces of water Mix thoroughly and apply (with a soft face cloth) to affected areas. So far so good, almost immediately at his next feeding he was eating better and I am making sure that I rinse myself off after each nursing session so we don’t keep passing it back and forth! — Jackie M. SAHM to four wonderful kids: 9.5 (girl), 8 (girl), 21 months (boy), and 2 months (boy)!! Jackie, from my search, it appears you will have to use a prescription (Nystatin) from the doctor.  Many pharmacies deliver.  Are there any in your area that might deliver & save you from dragging all the munchkins out into the snow?  That way the doctor could just phone something in & you could have it sent out. Hugs, Judy It’s been about 8 years since I’ve had to deal with any baby having thrush — my eldest never had it, nor did my now 21 month old son. Now, apparently, at 2 months, I notice it on my son’s tongue — only his tongue. It’s not on the roof or sides of his mouth, but there is some whitish film on the insides of his lips. I’ve put a call into the pediatrician and am STILL waiting to hear back if they can call a prescription in, but I know there has to be something that can be done at home for this — right now it’s snowing at about 2 inches per hour and I am NOT really all that thrilled about popping all four kids into the car and going to the pharmacy in this weather! HELP! — Jackie M. SAHM to four wonderful kids: 9.5 (girl), 8 (girl), 21 months (boy), and 2 months (boy)!!

Response:

Thanks, Judy! I did finally speak with a nurse and she suggested a home solution to tide us over until I can get out to get it (DH got home too late to pick it up). Because this is the first prescription I’ve needed for the baby, the pharmacy needs my insurance card and of course the pharmacy (CVS) where the prescription was called in to doesn’t do deliveries ( For anybody else out there who might be interested in the home remedy, here it is: 1/4 tsp. of Baking Soda 1 to 2 drops of Ivory Liquid (YES, dish soap… almost any brand of the liquid dish soaps will do) 8 ounces of water Mix thoroughly and apply (with a soft face cloth) to affected areas. So far so good, almost immediately at his next feeding he was eating better and I am making sure that I rinse myself off after each nursing session so we don’t keep passing it back and forth! — Jackie M. SAHM to four wonderful kids: 9.5 (girl), 8 (girl), 21 months (boy), and 2 months (boy)!!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jackie, from my search, it appears you will have to use a prescription (Nystatin) from the doctor.  Many pharmacies deliver.  Are there any in your area that might deliver & save you from dragging all the munchkins out into the snow?  That way the doctor could just phone something in & you could have it sent out. Hugs, Judy It’s been about 8 years since I’ve had to deal with any baby having thrush — my eldest never had it, nor did my now 21 month old son. Now, apparently, at 2 months, I notice it on my son’s tongue — only his tongue. It’s not on the roof or sides of his mouth, but there is some whitish film on the insides of his lips. I’ve put a call into the pediatrician and am STILL waiting to hear back if they can call a prescription in, but I know there has to be something that can be done at home for this — right now it’s snowing at about 2 inches per hour and I am NOT really all that thrilled about popping all four kids into the car and going to the pharmacy in this weather! HELP! — Jackie M. SAHM to four wonderful kids: 9.5 (girl), 8 (girl), 21 months (boy), and 2 months (boy)!!

Response:

Jackie, from my search, it appears you will have to use a prescription (Nystatin) from the doctor.  Many pharmacies deliver.  Are there any in your area that might deliver & save you from dragging all the munchkins out into the snow?  That way the doctor could just phone something in & you could have it sent out. Hugs, Judy

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s been about 8 years since I’ve had to deal with any baby having thrush — my eldest never had it, nor did my now 21 month old son. Now, apparently, at 2 months, I notice it on my son’s tongue — only his tongue. It’s not on the roof or sides of his mouth, but there is some whitish film on the insides of his lips. I’ve put a call into the pediatrician and am STILL waiting to hear back if they can call a prescription in, but I know there has to be something that can be done at home for this — right now it’s snowing at about 2 inches per hour and I am NOT really all that thrilled about popping all four kids into the car and going to the pharmacy in this weather! HELP! — Jackie M. SAHM to four wonderful kids: 9.5 (girl), 8 (girl), 21 months (boy), and 2 months (boy)!!

Response:

It’s been about 8 years since I’ve had to deal with any baby having thrush — my eldest never had it, nor did my now 21 month old son.  Now, apparently, at 2 months, I notice it on my son’s tongue — only his tongue. It’s not on the roof or sides of his mouth, but there is some whitish film on the insides of his lips. I’ve put a call into the pediatrician and am STILL waiting to hear back if they can call a prescription in, but I know there has to be something that can be done at home for this — right now it’s snowing at about 2 inches per hour and I am NOT really all that thrilled about popping all four kids into the car and going to the pharmacy in this weather! HELP! — Jackie M. SAHM to four wonderful kids: 9.5 (girl), 8 (girl), 21 months (boy), and 2 months (boy)!!

Response:

Question:

My 2 yr old has developed a rash on his face and eye lids. HAs anyone heard of Pulmicort doing that. Ron

Response:

My 2 yr old has developed a rash on his face and eye lids. HAs anyone heard of Pulmicort doing that. Ron

Its possible. Be sure to wash his face after face mask is removed. (I assume you use a face mask, whether using the Turbuhaler with AeroChamber & facemask, or the nebulizer with face mask). Here’s a link on the Pulmicort Turbuhaler: http://www.rxmed.com/monographs/pulmico2.html Excerpt Adverse Effects: No major side effects attributable to the use of budesonide, in all dosage forms, have been reported. During clinical trials, the frequency of subjectively reported side effects was low. The most common side effects were cough, throat irritation, and  hoarseness (2 to 4%). Bad taste, headache, nausea and dryness of the  throat were reported less frequently. Other side effects reported on  occasion during budesonide treatment were tiredness, thirst and  diarrhea. Skin reactions (urticaria, rash, dermatitis,  etc.) may, in rare cases, occur in association with local  corticosteroid therapy." Here is a link for the nebulized version (not available in US): http://www.rxmed.com/monographs/pulmico.html Excerpt: "Adverse Effects: During clinical trials, the most common side effects were  cough, throat irritation and hoarseness (2 to 4%). Bad taste, headache,  nausea and dryness of the throat were reported less frequently. Other side  effects reported on occasion during budesonide treatment were tiredness, thirst and diarrhea.  Facial skin irritation has occurred in a few cases when a nebulizer with a  face mask has been used. To prevent irritation, the facial skin should be  washed after use of the face mask. Skin reactions (urticaria, rash,  dermatitis, etc.) may, in rare cases, occur in association with local  corticosteroid therapy." Ellis

Response:

My 2 yr old has developed a rash on his face and eye lids. HAs anyone heard of Pulmicort doing that. Its possible. Be sure to wash his face after face mask is removed. (I assume you use a face mask, whether using the Turbuhaler with AeroChamber & facemask, or the nebulizer with face mask).

It is not possible to use a Turbuhaler with an Aerochamber/mask. However, there is an MDI version of Pulmicort, which can be used with an aerochamber.  There is also, as you say, the nebulizer version. The original poster may also want to investigate to see if something has changed in their child’s environment [e.g. new foods] to see if perhaps that is the cause of the rash. SW. THIS IS IN NO WAY PROFESSIONAL ADVICE.   Starwind UNSOLICITED COMMERCIAL EMAIL IS NOT WELCOME AT THIS ADDRESS OR VARIATIONS OF IT.

Response:

My 2 yr old has developed a rash on his face and eye lids. HAs anyone heard of Pulmicort doing that. Its possible. Be sure to wash his face after face mask is removed. (I assume you use a face mask, whether using the Turbuhaler with AeroChamber & facemask, or the nebulizer with face mask). It is not possible to use a Turbuhaler with an Aerochamber/mask. However, there is an MDI version of Pulmicort, which can be used with an aerochamber.  There is also, as you say, the nebulizer version.

Whoops, I forgot you can’t use an AeroChamber with a DPI. The original poster did email me; said his son doesn’t use a mask, just breathes thru the tube; so I don’t know if he was using the Turbuhaler version, the MDI version, or the nebulizer version. I told him any such effects would be dose-dependent; perhaps he could reduce the Pulmicort dose and use some steroid-sparing meds, like Intal, Tilade, TheoDur, Proventil tabs. Food allergies (eczema) are certainly a possibility. Ellis – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The original poster may also want to investigate to see if something has changed in their child’s environment [e.g. new foods] to see if perhaps that is the cause of the rash. SW.

Response:

Question:

Many thanks for the info!  Will check that website right away!

Response:

Does anyone know if this publisher runs early or late on publication dates and what sort of revisions were made?  I am torn between getting what is available now and waiting for the revised edition.

Publication date for books are about as reliable as release dates for computer software.  For both books and software I have taken the attitude: "I’ll believe it when I see it on the shelf."

Response:

When I went to my local bookstore to buy The Asthma Sourcebook (right title?) which I have often seen highly praised in this group, I was told a revised edition is due out in November of 1998–about 4 months down the road.   Does anyone know if this publisher runs early or late on publication dates and what sort of revisions were made?  I am torn between getting what is available now and waiting for the revised edition.

Response:

When I went to my local bookstore to buy The Asthma Sourcebook (right title?) which I have often seen highly praised in this group, I was told a revised edition is due out in November of 1998–about 4 months down the road. Does anyone know if this publisher runs early or late on publication dates and what sort of revisions were made?  I am torn between getting what is available now and waiting for the revised edition.

The author of ‘The Asthma Sourcebook’, Francis Adams, MD, has a web site. His email address is there. You could try emailing him with that question. Let us know what he says. http://home.earthlink.net/~francisva/news.html The Asthma Sourcebook News The existing book is copyright ‘96 and seems consistent with the ‘97 Expert Panel Report 2 in most respects. I doubt the updates would be substantial–lists of new drugs released like Pulmicort and Singulair. But you can pick up some of this info from his website. Cost of existing book is only $16 (less than a canister of Ventolin) and some stores discount, like amazon.com His web site has a link that takes you to amazon.com Ellis

Response:

Question:

I am starting welbutrin sr and need to know what to expect. I am bi-polar/mood swings/OCD/major panic attacks, and I am obsessive about what meds will do to me. Then I panic once I take them, and It is just a bad circle of needing meds/ being afraid of meds.I have been on different meds in the past, but have been off them for a while(except xanax, I keep that around just in case a panick attack). Any info on what I should expect with wellbutrin sr would be great….Mary

Response:

I am starting welbutrin sr and need to know what to expect. I am bi-polar/mood swings/OCD/major panic attacks, and I am obsessive about what meds will do to me. Then I panic once I take them, and It is just a bad circle of needing meds/ being afraid of meds.I have been on different meds in the past, but have been off them for a while(except xanax, I keep that around just in case a panick attack). Any info on what I should expect with wellbutrin sr would be great….Mary

– I’ve heard that is one of the more stimulating ones – so if you are anxiety prone, you might get more anxious with this one – but I have not tried it myself.  For bipolar, lithium with some long-term benzo seems to be a first choice, or tegratol, or Valproate.  I used to take Xanax for panic but I think i had the panic from too high a Synthroid dose.  I only take it now very rarely but my Synthroid has been reduced since then about 40%. Squiggles

Response:

It seems to me that that Wellbutrin is not the best choice for someone with your conditions.  I’m only going on memory of the many posts here by other members and various links supplied also.  I took Wellbutrin and was suffering from mood swings.  I ended up hypomanic and had to stop. Well, I’m not the word of God about this.  Just check into it. Good luck. Carrie ;o)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am starting welbutrin sr and need to know what to expect. I am bi-polar/mood swings/OCD/major panic attacks, and I am obsessive about what meds will do to me. Then I panic once I take them, and It is just a bad circle of needing meds/ being afraid of meds.I have been on different meds in the past, but have been off them for a while(except xanax, I keep that around just in case a panick attack). Any info on what I should expect with wellbutrin sr would be great….Mary

Response:

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I am starting welbutrin sr and need to know what to expect. I am bi-polar/mood swings/OCD/major panic attacks, and I am obsessive about what meds will do to me. Then I panic once I take them, and It is just a bad circle of needing meds/ being afraid of meds.I have been on different meds in the past, but have been off them for a while(except xanax, I keep that around just in case a panick attack). Any info on what I should expect with wellbutrin sr would be great….Mary

As always, the effects depend on the individual, and I am not a medical pro. However, I am ramping up on Wellbutrin myself.  Your results may vary, especially since I am very responsive to any neuro drug I can find (one drink gives me a buzz, one cup of coffee wakes me right up, one dose of Benadril makes me a zombie for 24 hours) Wellbutrin claims to be very low on side effects (it claims to be one of the few ADs that rarely cause sexual side effects).  The only ones I have noticed from personal experience are diminished appetite and weight loss, which are fine since I’m overweight to begin with.  BTW, that’s why anorexia and bulimia are contraindications. The other big contraindication is alcohol.  Stay completely dry while on Wellbutrin.  Alcohol may interfere with other ADs, but with Wellbutrin it can cause seizures.  If you can be (or already are) a teatotaller, this should be no problem for you. My prescriber is also trying to find an antianxiety med that I can tolerate (I have nasty side effects with Effexor and Celexa), so I’m guessing that Wellbutrin isn’t itself an antianxiety.  But for me, it is good at treating depression.  I sensed immediate results during the first week at the 50mg/day level (standard therepudic dose is 300 mg/day).  Again, I am likely _very_ responsive to Wellbutrin, so you may have to wait several weeks at a higher dose. —–BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE—– Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.8 for non-commercial use <http://www.pgp.com iQA/AwUBPIUmCkdroV5D+kXPEQJumQCgrRN47bk6RWTmoZnHmLKB2l4LmoEAnR58 AC1BP8lgKRyh8WCV6ON+kh19 =08UA —–END PGP SIGNATURE—–

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Question:

Ketoacidosis is not ketosis. Very different states. Ketoacidosis is indeed life threatening and must be treated immediately. Ketoacidosis is generally caused by diabetes which is out of control. Diabetes (except type I diabetes) is caused by carbohydrate metabolism.

Can anyone tell me the difference between ketoacidosis and lactoacidosis? I remember lactoacidosis being one of the potential (and extremely life-threatening) side-effects of taking the drug metformin (which I’ve since stopped taking) Is it the same as ketoacidosis? thanks ~~~~~ Rachel Outside of a dog, a book is man’s best friend. Inside of a dog, it’s too dark to read. – Groucho Marx ~~~~

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  Fact: ten years from now, people will look back at Atkins and his FAD diet and shake their heads and wonder if the horrible effects can be reversed.

LOL Try reading the book … Dr Atkins and his diet have been around for over 20 years now … jackass ~~~~~ Rachel Outside of a dog, a book is man’s best friend. Inside of a dog, it’s too dark to read. – Groucho Marx ~~~~

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"Nina" wrote … I just hate, fads, fashions, pop culture and anything else that worms its way into the mainstream culture by praying on the desperate.  This whole Dr. "Quack" Atkins thing just hits a nerve; a very sore nerve at that! Ah, so you’re here to save us from ourselves.  Good chap. <snip Thanks darling! You’re simply divine.

*laffin’ my @ss off!* ~~~~~ Rachel Outside of a dog, a book is man’s best friend. Inside of a dog, it’s too dark to read. – Groucho Marx ~~~~

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"Lisa C." wrote Also, I see you post to other diet newsgroups as well. Is this for the betterment of man-kind? How wonderful of you.

I was wondering how long it would take for people to bite, I’ve seen quite a few anti-low-carb messages from this guy today – poor Nigel No-Mates needs to annoy people to get any attention … poor diddums! Every newsgroup needs a troll to play with! ~~~~~ Rachel Outside of a dog, a book is man’s best friend. Inside of a dog, it’s too dark to read. – Groucho Marx

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Ahh, so you think that no one holds the answer.  The Doctors may not be right all the time.  And Encylopedia Britainica?  More knowledgable that PhD education biochemists?  What makes you so sure you hold the "right" answer anymore than the doctors who do recommend this diet?  Half the people in any arguement are correct, you think you way, we will think out way.  Just don’t try to save us from ourselves, and we won’t tell YOU how to run your life either. Hope (PMS’ing and bitchy from being tempted by the pizza monster tonight at a friend’s place) 183/180/145 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – And my doctor wanted to put me on medication for the rest of my life to "control" a potential blood pressure problem at the age of 14.  A year’s worth of running a mile every day and the problem disappeared, doctors can’t even explain that one. So, in my opinon, medical doctors rate just about as low as TV evangelists in my books.  BTW, notice how if they have the choice of 5 different mefications to subscribe, they choose the newest, most expensive one by default, unless otherwise instructed?

Response:

1. Extended periods of ketosis affect the chemical composition of the blood in such a way that you increase risk of cardiac incident (blood ketoacidosis). 2. In a state of ketoacidosis, carbon dioxide accumulates in the tissues. Oxygen delivery to the cells is impaired. This can lead to a wide range of disastrous consequences ranging from respiratory ailments to metabolic illness. 3. Toxic ammonia buildup resulting from severe cases of ketoacidosis can be lethal.

You neglected to note that ketoacidosis is a condition limited to Type I diabetics.  In people who are capable of producing insulin, feedback mechanisms in the body prevent dietary ketosis from becoming ketoacidosis. When ketone concentrations reach a certain level, the body releases insulin and inhibits metabolism of fats. —                 "There’s a seeker born every minute."

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I love it Nina!!   lol Cath

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t sell anything, actually I work for the Wildlife Conservation Society. I just hate, fads, fashions, pop culture and anything else that worms its way into the mainstream culture by praying on the desperate.  This whole Dr. "Quack" Atkins thing just hits a nerve; a very sore nerve at that! Ah, so you’re here to save us from ourselves.  Good chap. Thank you ever so much for your concern regarding my health.  In this day and age of ever-increasing apathy, it heartens me to know that you are looking out for my health needs. Thanks darling! You’re simply divine. Ta- Nina —

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So far be it for me to even bother trying to help anyone further.

 Oh, good – does this mean you’ll go away now??

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Well, I was posting this to keep everyone informed.  I’m not saying you don’t lose weight on this diet, I just wanted to enighten some people that only had the information being fed (no pun intended) to them by Atkins, with some objective references.

Except, the references you’ve given aren’t objective. Or complete. Encyclopedias have always been put together by biased people. You can read encyclopedias of the past to understand how this is true. For example, a writer I am fond of, Lytton Strachey, was a homosexual and lived with a woman artist he had a platonic lifelong affair with, for a good portion of his adult life. (Early 20th century) An encyclopedia from the early seventies that I was doing research in, claimed he was a lifelong bachelor, who lived until his death with his mother. This was a so-called authoritative text! Read old encyclopedias, and the archaic ideas put out by them will shock you. Read medical books from a few years back and you’ll run into the same situation. This has been true for centuries. Ketosis CAN be a symptom of a number of disorders. That does not mean it is always a symptom of a disorder. Ketogenic diets are increasingly recognized as an excellent way to deal with brain and nerve system disorders such as epilepsy & sclerosis. I know that it is certainly making a difference in my condition, benign essential tremor. There is a reason why the quotation "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing" is so true. I don’t like seeing people being taken advantage of, but everyone here seems to know everything there is about the side effects of the diet. (Or at least they want to believe everything Atkins has told them, without question.)  So far be it for me to even bother trying to help anyone further. The information is right there for anyone who wants to remove the blinders for a second.  There’s no sense in me trying to show it to you, as the saying goes, "You can lead a horse to water…"

You are assuming we are all idiots. Far from it. I didn’t leap into this diet. I was concerned about it for years. But the more I have learned, and the more I do it, the more I know I’ve made a good choice. And if you are concerned about side effects, take a look at all the pharmaceutical ads that are promoting wonder drugs right now, that must by law list the side effects of the drugs. You think this diet is dangerous? God. Sandra – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m not desperate.  I like lowcarbing and it is working for me and most of the people on the NG.  I appreciate your concern and your need to "warn" us, but honestly, nobody is dropping dead on this diet. Give it some time… the effects will start to show their ugly face. Fact: eating high protein low/no carb acidifies the body Fact: In an attempt to raise system PH, the body calls on it’s mineral stores Fact: the primary mineral stores are within the bones Fact: EATING LOWCARB WILL de-mineralize your bones THUS lead you into an osteoporotic state…. you will sneeze and fracture your ribs….EEEOUCH! Fact: if you disagree with ANY of the above, you need to research these FACTS!

Fact: It takes more than writing "Fact" to make something a Fact. Thought I would explain that to you, since you seem confused. I hate for FACTS to get in the way of a good argument, but alas, it’s now to be the case.  Before I killfile you, I’ll leave you with this: I’m imagining you’re talking about the FALLACY that "protein causes calcium loss."  I’d also imgine you’ve got nothing to back up your claim except that your mother’s-brother’s-friend-who-once-knew-a-nutritionist told you. There’s much more that goes into bone density, like activity level and hormones.  But that would be like, facts, which I think you have no desire to be in possession of.  Before you go into my killfile (ta!) I’ll leave you with this. High Protein Diets and Bone Loss by Elzi Volk http://www.allprotraining.com/Articles/NutritionCenter/2000/May/highp… (She actually uses, like, references and stuff.  But again, let’s not have facts get in the way of things) It’s believed that the old research was poorly designed and is outdated. A wee bit o’ current research. Proc Nutr Soc 1999 May;58(2):403-13 Optimal intakes of protein in the human diet. Millward DJ Centre for Nutrition and Food Safety, School of Biological Sciences, For protein, progress is slow in defining quantifiable indicators of adequacy other than balance and growth. As far as current requirements are concerned, only in the case of infants and children is there any case for revision, and  this change is to lower values. Such intakes would appear to be safe  when consumed as milk formula. In pregnancy, notwithstanding the concern that deficiency  may influence programming of disease in later life, there is little  evidence of any increased need, and some evidence that increased intakes would pose a  risk. For the elderly there is no evidence of an increased requirement  or of benefit from increased intakes, except possibly for bone health. For adults, while we  now know much more about metabolic adaptation to varying intakes, there  would appear to be no case for a change in current recommendations. As far as  risks and benefits of high intakes are concerned, there is now only a weak case for risk for renal function. For bone health the established views of risk of high protein intakes are not supported by newly-emerging data, with benefit indicated in the elderly. There is also circumstantial evidence for benefit on blood  pressure and stroke mortality. With athletes there is little evidence of benefit of increased intakes in terms of performance, with older literature suggesting an adverse influence. Thus, given that a safe upper limit is currently defined as twice the reference nutrient intake, and that for individuals with high energy requirements this value (1.5 g/kg per d) is easily exceeded, there is a  case for revising thedefinition of a safe upper limit. Cheers, Nina — 100% Sweat http://www.theslack.com/diet2.html

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Ketosis-lipolysis is NOT ketoacidosis http://www.lowcarb.org/ketosis.html      Please don’t feed the TROLL.   Lee Rodgers Lee Rodgers The Lowcarb Retreat http://www.lowcarb.org LOSE weight for LOOSE jeans.  LOSERS have LOOSER jeans. "I have to say, if your mind weren’t so narrow, your waist would be." Dr.A Read the FAQ jack   http://www.grossweb.com/asdlc Lowcarb Cookbooks   http://www.lowcarb.org/cook_bks.html

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Well, I was posting this to keep everyone informed.  I’m not saying you don’t lose weight on this diet, I just wanted to enighten some people that only had the information being fed (no pun intended) to them by Atkins, with some objective references. I don’t like seeing people being taken advantage of, but everyone here seems to know everything there is about the side effects of the diet. (Or at least they want to believe everything Atkins has told them, without question.)  So far be it for me to even bother trying to help anyone further. The information is right there for anyone who wants to remove the blinders for a second.  There’s no sense in me trying to show it to you, as the saying goes, "You can lead a horse to water…"

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Well, I was posting this to keep everyone informed.  I’m not saying you don’t lose weight on this diet, I just wanted to enighten some people that only had the information being fed (no pun intended) to them by Atkins, with some objective references.

Everyone here is not on Atkins. I don’t like seeing people being taken advantage of, but everyone here seems to know everything there is about the side effects of the diet. (Or at least they want to believe everything Atkins has told them, without question.)  So far be it for me to even bother trying to help anyone further. The information is right there for anyone who wants to remove the blinders for a second.  There’s no sense in me trying to show it to you, as the saying goes, "You can lead a horse to water…"

Back’atcha.  Read a book once and awhile.  You might learn something. Cheers, Nina — 100% Sweat http://www.theslack.com/diet2.html

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I’m not desperate.  I like lowcarbing and it is working for me and most of the people on the NG.  I appreciate your concern and your need to "warn" us, but honestly, nobody is dropping dead on this diet.

Give it some time… the effects will start to show their ugly face. Fact: eating high protein low/no carb acidifies the body Fact: In an attempt to raise system PH, the body calls on it’s mineral stores Fact: the primary mineral stores are within the bones Fact: EATING LOWCARB WILL de-mineralize your bones THUS lead you into an osteoporotic state…. you will sneeze and fracture your ribs….EEEOUCH! Fact: if you disagree with ANY of the above, you need to research these FACTS! Fact: ten years from now, people will look back at Atkins and his FAD diet and shake their heads and wonder if the horrible effects can be reversed. Fact: The Atkin’s DIE-t WILL go the way of the dinosaurs, leisure suits, AMC Pacers, disco, …etc. Maybe it’s just Atkins’ way of ridding the world of really dumb folk?… YA NEVER KNOW

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And my doctor wanted to put me on medication for the rest of my life to "control" a potential blood pressure problem at the age of 14.  A year’s worth of running a mile every day and the problem disappeared, doctors can’t even explain that one. So, in my opinon, medical doctors rate just about as low as TV evangelists in my books.  BTW, notice how if they have the choice of 5 different mefications to subscribe, they choose the newest, most expensive one by default, unless otherwise instructed? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You know, my Dr. who is a DO BTW told me to go on this diet.  Is he a quack too?  I think not.  If you pay attention to history refined flours and sugars weren’t eaten in the mass quantity that they are now.  In the beginning of the 1800’s people ate only about 10 lbs. of sugar a year.  By the beginning of the 1900’s people were eating 150 lbs. of sugar a year. That is a significant increase, and that’s also the same time obesity went on the rise. I’m sure you’re thinking that people have always eaten bread and potatoes and pasta, and you’re right. But they were eating the bread and pasta from whole grain flour, which is healthier.  I’m sure that people 200 years ago were probably in a state of ketosis all the time..and they all did fine. Dr.Atkins sells his products because there is a need for them.  You don’t have to buy them if you don’t want to though.  I didn’t, I just bought the book is all.  I take my multivitamin from the vitamins I already have.  If I choose to buy shakes, I doubt I’ll buy Atkins since they’re more expensive than another brand I found that does the same thing. You should read Dr.Atkins book BEFORE judging the diet as a whole.  And you should also consider that many of us on this diet were either told to go on it by a Dr. or are under a Dr’s supervision. — -Michelle in Michigan 280/270/170 Atkins since 3-5-01

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You know, my Dr. who is a DO BTW told me to go on this diet.  Is he a quack too?  I think not.  If you pay attention to history refined flours and sugars weren’t eaten in the mass quantity that they are now.  In the beginning of the 1800’s people ate only about 10 lbs. of sugar a year.  By the beginning of the 1900’s people were eating 150 lbs. of sugar a year. That is a significant increase, and that’s also the same time obesity went on the rise. I’m sure you’re thinking that people have always eaten bread and potatoes and pasta, and you’re right. But they were eating the bread and pasta from whole grain flour, which is healthier.  I’m sure that people 200 years ago were probably in a state of ketosis all the time..and they all did fine. Dr.Atkins sells his products because there is a need for them.  You don’t have to buy them if you don’t want to though.  I didn’t, I just bought the book is all.  I take my multivitamin from the vitamins I already have.  If I choose to buy shakes, I doubt I’ll buy Atkins since they’re more expensive than another brand I found that does the same thing. You should read Dr.Atkins book BEFORE judging the diet as a whole.  And you should also consider that many of us on this diet were either told to go on it by a Dr. or are under a Dr’s supervision. — -Michelle in Michigan 280/270/170 Atkins since 3-5-01

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May I assume then that you have no association with the poorly designed home made web page that you quote other than the Britannica site or the products being sold there? You should update FrontPage. Also, I see you post to other diet newsgroups as well. Is this for the betterment of man-kind? How wonderful of you.              :-)     LiLi                              (180/169/125)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t sell anything, actually I work for the Wildlife Conservation Society. I just hate, fads, fashions, pop culture and anything else that worms its way into the mainstream culture by praying on the desperate.  This whole Dr. "Quack" Atkins thing just hits a nerve; a very sore nerve at that! Anyway, I didn’t notice any ads in that message *shrug*. Wow Doc! Looks like you are selling a few products of your own! Is that "for the betterment of man-kind" or your pocketbook? —              :-)     LiLi                              (180/169/125) Read these articles taken form various sites on the Web: ketosis – metabolic disorder marked by high levels of ketones in the tissues and body fluids, including blood and urine. There is less sugar than normal in the blood and less glycogen (the storage form of sugar) in the liver; fat accumulates in the liver, as do amino acids, from which the liver can produce more glycogen. Ketosis may be present in diabetes mellitus. When cattle are affected, they lose weight and produce less milk; dietary adjustment to meet the special requirements of individual cattle helps avoid the condition. (Britannica.com) Now this: With further fasting, lipolysis continues to increase for a few days before it plateaus at a high rate. A large proportion of elevated fatty acids are converted to the "ketone bodies" in the liver, a process enhanced by the high level of glucagon. The brain, previously an avid and fastidious consumer of glucose, begins to use ketones as well as glucose. Eventually, more than one-half of the brain’s daily metabolic energy needs are met by the ketone bodies, thus substantially diminishing the need for hepatic glucose production. The decrease in gluconeogenesis reduces the need for protein-derived amino acids, sparing muscle and making survival during prolonged fasting possible. Starvation is characterized by very low levels of insulin, elevated concentrations of glucagon, and very high concentration of circulating free fatty acids and ketones. (Britannica.com) — When you consume a healthful and supportive diet complete with proteins, carbs, and fats, the carbohydrates are broken down into glucose. Glucose is actually blood sugar. Some of that glucose is transported and stored in muscle tissue as "glycogen." This is sort of the fuel in your fuel tank. That’s important to understand. Glycogen = Fuel. Glycogen is used to produce energy that fuels muscle contraction. ALL muscle contraction! Don’t think of muscle contraction only as exercise. Any movement requires the contraction of muscle, from blinking your eye to rising from bed in the morning. Without glycogen, you don’t have any fuel in the fuel tank. As long as you’re consuming carbs, you continue to re-fuel. You access and burn up stored glycogen, but quickly replace it with new muscle fuel. An understanding of that simple fact, that carbohydrates are the source of muscle fuel should raise an immediate red flag toward anything that suggests eliminating carbs. Once you understand the basic premise behind muscle glycogen, you should understand that the liver also plays a role in fuel storage. Some of the carbs that you eat ultimately wind up stored as liver glycogen. Think of the liver as sort of a "pump" for blood sugar. The brain burns more calories than any other organ in your body, and guess what it uses as its primary source of fuel. Glucose! Carbohydrates! As the brain results in the "burning" of blood glucose, the liver accesses its glycogen stores to keep blood glucose in adequate supply. Again, as you expend glycogen, the carbs that you ingest replete your supply. Atkins asks you to give up carbs. At first you’re doing just fine because you have glycogen stored. After a day or two, you’re using up your stored glycogen and you’re not replacing it. Your body shortly thereafter begins producing ketone bodies. I mentioned Atkins’ praise of a ketotic state already. Let’s look a bit further into this condition. Ketones are intermediaries in the process of metabolizing fat that are found in abnormal amounts in the blood and urine during periods of metabolic impairment. Give up all of your stored glycogen without replacing it and you’re likely going to be in such a state (Note: if you take in too many protein calories, it is possible to avoid carbs and never enter a state of ketosis rendering his low-carb ketosis theories useless). Atkins leads you to believe that the presence of these ketone bodies indicates ongoing fat release. He also assures you that they feed the brain. That is partially true. Here are just a few of the issues he neglects to address: 1. Extended periods of ketosis affect the chemical composition of the blood in such a way that you increase risk of cardiac incident (blood ketoacidosis). 2. In a state of ketoacidosis, carbon dioxide accumulates in the tissues. Oxygen delivery to the cells is impaired. This can lead to a wide range of disastrous consequences ranging from respiratory ailments to metabolic illness. 3. Toxic ammonia buildup resulting from severe cases of ketoacidosis can be lethal. I believe Atkins neglects to share that information with readers. He also neglects to tell you that the liver is called into play to "filter" the abnormal chemicals building up in the blood. This leads to a residual buildup of uric acid. Interestingly, this uric acid accumulation can lead to . . . formation of kidney stones! Kidney stones may be common among low carb dieters, but don’t mistake that for an indication that they’re normal! If all is working optimally, uric acid levels stay quite manageable, the kidneys continue to function normally, and you will likely never have stones accumulating in your urinary tract. (Thefitnesstruth.com) —— I have a lot of friends on low carb diets and for years now I’ve just had a feeling that something wasn’t right, after all, we all didn’t learn the 5 food groups in kindergarten just to throw it away later in life. Dr. Atkins supports the idea of placing your body in a state of Ketosis, in fact, this is what causes his diet to work.  After reading some of those articles above I have to ask "Why?".  Why would anyone want to place their body in this unhealthy state? Here’s a summary of Ketosis.  Your body starts using stored fat cells to provide fuel after the carbs are depleted.  The energy provided to the brain is only a little over 50% of the energy it needs to function, as opposed to the 100% provided by carbohydrates.  Ironically, people in this state of Ketosis don’t realize their reactions are being affected BECAUSE thier brain is operating too slowly to tell (Sorta like being unable to see the forest from the trees). Victims of starvation and insulin dependant diabetics who missed their insulin, are the ones commonly found in this state.  The first two words in the encyclopedia’s entry are "metobolic disorder".  Why then are people flocking to this diet if it requires placing your body in harm’s way? Ketosis is a bodies reaction and defense against illness.  Not only are diabetics found in this sate, anyone who has been sick for prolonged periods of time (Influenza, Bronchitis, etc.) also suffer form Ketosis, since they don’t eat as much as they should and force their body to go into this state of "emergency".  Why do you think people lose weight and look sickly thin when they’ve been sick for a while? I just can’t stress enough how unnatural this is.  It’s unnatural to artificailly place a healthy body in this sate of emergency when everything you need for a healthy living is right there in front of you. I could stand to lose a few pounds myself.  I was tempted to try a diet like this, but declined since it just didn’t sound right.  After reading what I have, I’m glad I did.  I hope some of you out there haven’t been completely suckered ito this diet by Atkins’ promise.  What he sells is a half-truth.  He lives by the phrase "A sucker is born every minute". Think about it, if he was doing this for the betterment of man-kind, why would he sell his products???

Response:

I don’t sell anything, actually I work for the Wildlife Conservation Society. I just hate, fads, fashions, pop culture and anything else that worms its way into the mainstream culture by praying on the desperate.  This whole Dr. "Quack" Atkins thing just hits a nerve; a very sore nerve at that!

Ah, so you’re here to save us from ourselves.  Good chap. Thank you ever so much for your concern regarding my health.  In this day and age of ever-increasing apathy, it heartens me to know that you are looking out for my health needs. Since you have now established yourself to be a virtual "Guardian Angel" over my well-being, I imagine you could and would be agreeable to extending your caring attitude towards the other areas of my life also. Firstly, please contact me as soon as possible so we can discuss my laundry.  I have a back-up of about three loads to do, and could you make sure to do the delicates by hand?   Secondly, Peanut the dog could really use a bath.  Please pick up the special Lytar soap at the Specialty Pet Store.  He could use a nail clip as well.  Then the bathtub will need scrubbing and, well, since you are looking out for my health, please scrub the entire bathroom whilst you’re at it.  Wouldn’t want any of those nasty germs to interfere with my health. Oh, and the car could use some gassing up and then maybe a quick sweep of the apartment.   Doc, love, you’re right up there with Mother Teresa and Princess Di. I’ll notify Stockholm. The Nobel Committmee will want to hear about this! Thanks darling! You’re simply divine. Ta- Nina — 100% Sweat http://www.theslack.com/diet2.html

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Hey, I’m not desperate.  I like lowcarbing and it is working for me and most of the people on the NG.  I appreciate your concern and your need to "warn" us, but honestly, nobody is dropping dead on this diet.  I really have never felt better in my life.  Don’t get me wrong.  In my 20’s, I lost weight on the mainstream, low-fat, high complex carbo diet.  I tried it again, now that I’m in my late 30’s, and it wasn’t happening for me.  However, I started low carb and the pounds are coming off, albeit slowly, but hey, I’m in no hurry.  I personally don’t believe it’s healthy to eat all the carbs I was eating on a "normal" diet.  I don’t think Atkins is a fad diet…he’s been around since the early 70’s.  Maybe you could try the old saying, "Don’t knock it ’til you’ve tried it." Gwendolyn

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t sell anything, actually I work for the Wildlife Conservation Society. I just hate, fads, fashions, pop culture and anything else that worms its way into the mainstream culture by praying on the desperate.  This whole Dr. "Quack" Atkins thing just hits a nerve; a very sore nerve at that! Anyway, I didn’t notice any ads in that message *shrug*. Wow Doc! Looks like you are selling a few products of your own! Is that "for the betterment of man-kind" or your pocketbook? —              :-)     LiLi                              (180/169/125) Read these articles taken form various sites on the Web: ketosis – metabolic disorder marked by high levels of ketones in the tissues and body fluids, including blood and urine. There is less sugar than normal in the blood and less glycogen (the storage form of sugar) in the liver; fat accumulates in the liver, as do amino acids, from which the liver can produce more glycogen. Ketosis may be present in diabetes mellitus. When cattle are affected, they lose weight and produce less milk; dietary adjustment to meet the special requirements of individual cattle helps avoid the condition. (Britannica.com) Now this: With further fasting, lipolysis continues to increase for a few days before it plateaus at a high rate. A large proportion of elevated fatty acids are converted to the "ketone bodies" in the liver, a process enhanced by the high level of glucagon. The brain, previously an avid and fastidious consumer of glucose, begins to use ketones as well as glucose. Eventually, more than one-half of the brain’s daily metabolic energy needs are met by the ketone bodies, thus substantially diminishing the need for hepatic glucose production. The decrease in gluconeogenesis reduces the need for protein-derived amino acids, sparing muscle and making survival during prolonged fasting possible. Starvation is characterized by very low levels of insulin, elevated concentrations of glucagon, and very high concentration of circulating free fatty acids and ketones. (Britannica.com) — When you consume a healthful and supportive diet complete with proteins, carbs, and fats, the carbohydrates are broken down into glucose. Glucose is actually blood sugar. Some of that glucose is transported and stored in muscle tissue as "glycogen." This is sort of the fuel in your fuel tank. That’s important to understand. Glycogen = Fuel. Glycogen is used to produce energy that fuels muscle contraction. ALL muscle contraction! Don’t think of muscle contraction only as exercise. Any movement requires the contraction of muscle, from blinking your eye to rising from bed in the morning. Without glycogen, you don’t have any fuel in the fuel tank. As long as you’re consuming carbs, you continue to re-fuel. You access and burn up stored glycogen, but quickly replace it with new muscle fuel. An understanding of that simple fact, that carbohydrates are the source of muscle fuel should raise an immediate red flag toward anything that suggests eliminating carbs. Once you understand the basic premise behind muscle glycogen, you should understand that the liver also plays a role in fuel storage. Some of the carbs that you eat ultimately wind up stored as liver glycogen. Think of the liver as sort of a "pump" for blood sugar. The brain burns more calories than any other organ in your body, and guess what it uses as its primary source of fuel. Glucose! Carbohydrates! As the brain results in the "burning" of blood glucose, the liver accesses its glycogen stores to keep blood glucose in adequate supply. Again, as you expend glycogen, the carbs that you ingest replete your supply. Atkins asks you to give up carbs. At first you’re doing just fine because you have glycogen stored. After a day or two, you’re using up your stored glycogen and you’re not replacing it. Your body shortly thereafter begins producing ketone bodies. I mentioned Atkins’ praise of a ketotic state already. Let’s look a bit further into this condition. Ketones are intermediaries in the process of metabolizing fat that are found in abnormal amounts in the blood and urine during periods of metabolic impairment. Give up all of your stored glycogen without replacing it and you’re likely going to be in such a state (Note: if you take in too many protein calories, it is possible to avoid carbs and never enter a state of ketosis rendering his low-carb ketosis theories useless). Atkins leads you to believe that the presence of these ketone bodies indicates ongoing fat release. He also assures you that they feed the brain. That is partially true. Here are just a few of the issues he neglects to address: 1. Extended periods of ketosis affect the chemical composition of the blood in such a way that you increase risk of cardiac incident (blood ketoacidosis). 2. In a state of ketoacidosis, carbon dioxide accumulates in the tissues. Oxygen delivery to the cells is impaired. This can lead to a wide range of disastrous consequences ranging from respiratory ailments to metabolic illness. 3. Toxic ammonia buildup resulting from severe cases of ketoacidosis can be lethal. I believe Atkins neglects to share that information with readers. He also neglects to tell you that the liver is called into play to "filter" the abnormal chemicals building up in the blood. This leads to a residual buildup of uric acid. Interestingly, this uric acid accumulation can lead to . . . formation of kidney stones! Kidney stones may be common among low carb dieters, but don’t mistake that for an indication that they’re normal! If all is working optimally, uric acid levels stay quite manageable, the kidneys continue to function normally, and you will likely never have stones accumulating in your urinary tract. (Thefitnesstruth.com) —— I have a lot of friends on low carb diets and for years now I’ve just had a feeling that something wasn’t right, after all, we all didn’t learn the 5 food groups in kindergarten just to throw it away later in life. Dr. Atkins supports the idea of placing your body in a state of Ketosis, in fact, this is what causes his diet to work.  After reading some of those articles above I have to ask "Why?".  Why would anyone want to place their body in this unhealthy state? Here’s a summary of Ketosis.  Your body starts using stored fat cells to provide fuel after the carbs are depleted.  The energy provided to the brain is only a little over 50% of the energy it needs to function, as opposed to the 100% provided by carbohydrates.  Ironically, people in this state of Ketosis don’t realize their reactions are being affected BECAUSE thier brain is operating too slowly to tell (Sorta like being unable to see the forest from the trees). Victims of starvation and insulin dependant diabetics who missed their insulin, are the ones commonly found in this state.  The first two words in the encyclopedia’s entry are "metobolic disorder".  Why then are people flocking to this diet if it requires placing your body in harm’s way? Ketosis is a bodies reaction and defense against illness.  Not only are diabetics found in this sate, anyone who has been sick for prolonged periods of time (Influenza, Bronchitis, etc.) also suffer form Ketosis, since they don’t eat as much as they should and force their body to go into this state of "emergency".  Why do you think people lose weight and look sickly thin when they’ve been sick for a while? I just can’t stress enough how unnatural this is.  It’s unnatural to artificailly place a healthy body in this sate of emergency when everything you need for a healthy living is right there in front of you. I could stand to lose a few pounds myself.  I was tempted to try a diet like this, but declined since it just didn’t sound right.  After reading what I have, I’m glad I did.  I hope some of you out there haven’t been completely suckered ito this diet by Atkins’ promise.  What he sells is a half-truth.  He lives by the phrase "A sucker is born every minute". Think about it, if he was doing this for the betterment of man-kind, why would he sell his products???

Response:

Cute. Lets examine some of your quotations and conclusions… Read these articles taken form various sites on the Web: ketosis – metabolic disorder marked by high levels of ketones in the tissues and body fluids, including blood and urine. There is less sugar than normal in the blood and less glycogen (the storage form of sugar) in the liver; fat accumulates in the liver, as do amino acids, from which the liver can produce more glycogen. Ketosis may be present in diabetes mellitus. When cattle are affected, they lose weight and produce less milk; dietary adjustment to meet the special requirements of individual cattle helps avoid the condition. (Britannica.com)

Ketoacidosis is not ketosis. Very different states. Ketoacidosis is indeed life threatening and must be treated immediately. Ketoacidosis is generally caused by diabetes which is out of control. Diabetes (except type I diabetes) is caused by carbohydrate metabolism. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Now this: With further fasting, lipolysis continues to increase for a few days before it plateaus at a high rate. A large proportion of elevated fatty acids are converted to the "ketone bodies" in the liver, a process enhanced by the high level of glucagon. The brain, previously an avid and fastidious consumer of glucose, begins to use ketones as well as glucose. Eventually, more than one-half of the brain’s daily metabolic energy needs are met by the ketone bodies, thus substantially diminishing the need for hepatic glucose production. The decrease in gluconeogenesis reduces the need for protein-derived amino acids, sparing muscle and making survival during prolonged fasting possible. Starvation is characterized by very low levels of insulin, elevated concentrations of glucagon, and very high concentration of circulating free fatty acids and ketones. (Britannica.com) —

Ketosis from low carbohydrate consumption is not the same state as ketosis from starvation. Whatever diet you may be on, starvation is bad news. When you consume a healthful and supportive diet complete with proteins, carbs, and fats, the carbohydrates are broken down into glucose. Glucose is actually blood sugar. Some of that glucose is transported and stored in muscle tissue as "glycogen." This is sort of the fuel in your fuel tank. That’s important to understand. Glycogen = Fuel.

Your body can burn sugar for fuel. It can also burn ethanol. And it can burn fat. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Glycogen is used to produce energy that fuels muscle contraction. ALL muscle contraction! Don’t think of muscle contraction only as exercise. Any movement requires the contraction of muscle, from blinking your eye to rising from bed in the morning. Without glycogen, you don’t have any fuel in the fuel tank. As long as you’re consuming carbs, you continue to re-fuel. You access and burn up stored glycogen, but quickly replace it with new muscle fuel. An understanding of that simple fact, that carbohydrates are the source of muscle fuel should raise an immediate red flag toward anything that suggests eliminating carbs. Once you understand the basic premise behind muscle glycogen, you should understand that the liver also plays a role in fuel storage. Some of the carbs that you eat ultimately wind up stored as liver glycogen. Think of the liver as sort of a "pump" for blood sugar. The brain burns more calories than any other organ in your body, and guess what it uses as its primary source of fuel. Glucose! Carbohydrates! As the brain results in the "burning" of blood glucose, the liver accesses its glycogen stores to keep blood glucose in adequate supply. Again, as you expend glycogen, the carbs that you ingest replete your supply. Atkins asks you to give up carbs. At first you’re doing just fine because you have glycogen stored. After a day or two, you’re using up your stored glycogen and you’re not replacing it. Your body shortly thereafter begins producing ketone bodies. I mentioned Atkins’ praise of a ketotic state already. Let’s look a bit further into this condition. Ketones are intermediaries in the process of metabolizing fat that are found in abnormal amounts in the blood and urine during periods of

How do you determine what is abnormal here? Ketones are normally present in fat metabolism, normally absent in carbohydrate metabolism. metabolic impairment. Give up all of your stored glycogen without replacing it and you’re likely going to be in such a state (Note: if you take in too many protein calories, it is possible to avoid carbs and never enter a state of ketosis rendering his low-carb ketosis theories useless). Atkins leads you to believe that the presence of these ketone bodies indicates ongoing fat release. He also assures you that they feed the brain. That is partially true. Here are just a few of the issues he neglects to address: 1. Extended periods of ketosis affect the chemical composition of the blood in such a way that you increase risk of cardiac incident (blood ketoacidosis).

No. Ketosis is not ketoacidosis. 2. In a state of ketoacidosis, carbon dioxide accumulates in the tissues. Oxygen delivery to the cells is impaired. This can lead to a wide range of disastrous consequences ranging from respiratory ailments to metabolic illness.

Also sudden death. But nobody deliberately induces ketoacidosis. 3. Toxic ammonia buildup resulting from severe cases of ketoacidosis can be lethal.

Yes. I believe Atkins neglects to share that information with readers. He

Since Dr. Atkins does not propose the inducement of a ketoacidotic state, he doesn’t generally warn his readers against that — though he does advise that ketosis is not ketoacidosis. also neglects to tell you that the liver is called into play to "filter" the abnormal chemicals building up in the blood. This leads to a

What abnormal chemicals? residual buildup of uric acid. Interestingly, this uric acid accumulation can lead to . . . formation of kidney stones!

Where did you come up with this. I have been in a state of ketosis over 7 months. Just had blood work done. No abnormal chemicals noted in the blood work. Kidney function is doing great. Kidney stones may be common among low carb dieters, but don’t mistake that for an indication that they’re normal! If all is working optimally, uric acid levels stay quite manageable, the kidneys continue to function normally, and you will likely never have stones accumulating in your urinary tract.

What makes you think that kidney stones are common among low carb eaters. Where did you get that idea? (Thefitnesstruth.com) —— I have a lot of friends on low carb diets and for years now I’ve just had a feeling that something wasn’t right, after all, we all didn’t learn the 5 food groups in kindergarten just to throw it away later in life.

I learned a lot before I was six that I discarded when I was 7. Dr. Atkins supports the idea of placing your body in a state of Ketosis, in fact, this is what causes his diet to work.  After reading some of those articles above I have to ask "Why?".  Why would anyone want to place their body in this unhealthy state?

What makes you think this is an unhealthy state? Here’s a summary of Ketosis.  Your body starts using stored fat cells to provide fuel after the carbs are depleted.  The energy provided to the brain is only a little over 50% of the energy it needs to function, as opposed to the 100% provided by carbohydrates.  Ironically, people in this state of Ketosis don’t realize their reactions are being affected BECAUSE thier brain is operating too slowly to tell (Sorta like being unable to see the forest from the trees).

That is actually funny. The brain and red blood cells do need sugar. They get all they need during ketosis by the conversion of protein to sugar. All the cells of your body need fat and are quite happy using fat for energy. I run a health care facility — a very demanding job. If my brain has been slowed down so much that I can’t even notice it, don’t you think everyone else would? Don’t you think my wife would notice that I had suddenly become slow and stupid? Victims of starvation and insulin dependant diabetics who missed their insulin, are the ones commonly found in this state.  The first two words in the encyclopedia’s entry are "metobolic disorder".  Why then are people flocking to this diet if it requires placing your body in harm’s way?

Diabetic ketoacidosis is indeed a metabolic disorder caused by the body’s inability to tolerate sugar. I certainly believe that it is wise to avoid diabetic ketoacidosis. A low carbohydrate diet is the best way to avoid that condition. Ketosis is a bodies reaction and defense against illness.  Not only are diabetics found in this sate, anyone who has been sick for prolonged periods of time (Influenza, Bronchitis, etc.) also suffer form Ketosis, since they don’t eat as much as they should and force their body to go into this state of "emergency".  Why do you think people lose weight and look sickly thin when they’ve been sick for a while?

What makes you say that ketosis is an ‘emergency state’? It is a quite normal state. The body can burn sugar (which results in one state) or fat (which results in another state). Why do you feel that one state is normal while the other is not? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just can’t stress enough how unnatural this is.  It’s unnatural to artificailly place a healthy body in this sate of emergency when everything you need for a healthy living is right there in front of you. I could stand to lose a few pounds myself.  I was tempted to try a diet like this, but declined since it just didn’t sound right.  After reading what I have, I’m glad I did.  I hope some

… read more »

Response:

Actually, in my biochem med class Yesterday I asked my professor… the brain actually prefers ketones… and she showed me. The brain doesn’t like glucose. I’d like to see a study with IQ and diet… it wouldn’t surprise me if (with a large sample size), we could show higher scores under Ketosis. That article, was… incorrect. I’ll agree with you about the media… science and health are reported inaccurately more then half the time. The fat craze is one great example. Study after study show that a calorie is a calorie is a calorie.. yet people actually try to cut back on Fat. I bet there are still doctors out there who think ulcers are related to stress… that was disproved.. its a bacterial infection… within a few years we will see the atkins diet become the diet. FDA should take over the nutrition business… why our food suppliers are telling us what is healthy is beyond me. American Heart Association Labels on Apple Jacks… get real. Just as grain production increased the pyramid… and the ratios provided (servings) is remarkably close to the grain surplus when divided spastically. I take it you probably don’t have a weight problem… or if you did… u may have been one of those who just ate too da*n much. I have no respect for those people at all. My doctor (MD, duel PhD (biochem) was the one who recommended it. Along with my sisters endocrinologist who is #1 in the world right now.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t sell anything, actually I work for the Wildlife Conservation Society. I just hate, fads, fashions, pop culture and anything else that worms its way into the mainstream culture by praying on the desperate.  This whole Dr. "Quack" Atkins thing just hits a nerve; a very sore nerve at that! Anyway, I didn’t notice any ads in that message *shrug*. Wow Doc! Looks like you are selling a few products of your own! Is that "for the betterment of man-kind" or your pocketbook? —              :-)     LiLi                              (180/169/125) Read these articles taken form various sites on the Web: ketosis – metabolic disorder marked by high levels of ketones in the tissues and body fluids, including blood and urine. There is less sugar than normal in the blood and less glycogen (the storage form of sugar) in the liver; fat accumulates in the liver, as do amino acids, from which the liver can produce more glycogen. Ketosis may be present in diabetes mellitus. When cattle are affected, they lose weight and produce less milk; dietary adjustment to meet the special requirements of individual cattle helps avoid the condition. (Britannica.com) Now this: With further fasting, lipolysis continues to increase for a few days before it plateaus at a high rate. A large proportion of elevated fatty acids are converted to the "ketone bodies" in the liver, a process enhanced by the high level of glucagon. The brain, previously an avid and fastidious consumer of glucose, begins to use ketones as well as glucose. Eventually, more than one-half of the brain’s daily metabolic energy needs are met by the ketone bodies, thus substantially diminishing the need for hepatic glucose production. The decrease in gluconeogenesis reduces the need for protein-derived amino acids, sparing muscle and making survival during prolonged fasting possible. Starvation is characterized by very low levels of insulin, elevated concentrations of glucagon, and very high concentration of circulating free fatty acids and ketones. (Britannica.com) — When you consume a healthful and supportive diet complete with proteins, carbs, and fats, the carbohydrates are broken down into glucose. Glucose is actually blood sugar. Some of that glucose is transported and stored in muscle tissue as "glycogen." This is sort of the fuel in your fuel tank. That’s important to understand. Glycogen = Fuel. Glycogen is used to produce energy that fuels muscle contraction. ALL muscle contraction! Don’t think of muscle contraction only as exercise. Any movement requires the contraction of muscle, from blinking your eye to rising from bed in the morning. Without glycogen, you don’t have any fuel in the fuel tank. As long as you’re consuming carbs, you continue to re-fuel. You access and burn up stored glycogen, but quickly replace it with new muscle fuel. An understanding of that simple fact, that carbohydrates are the source of muscle fuel should raise an immediate red flag toward anything that suggests eliminating carbs. Once you understand the basic premise behind muscle glycogen, you should understand that the liver also plays a role in fuel storage. Some of the carbs that you eat ultimately wind up stored as liver glycogen. Think of the liver as sort of a "pump" for blood sugar. The brain burns more calories than any other organ in your body, and guess what it uses as its primary source of fuel. Glucose! Carbohydrates! As the brain results in the "burning" of blood glucose, the liver accesses its glycogen stores to keep blood glucose in adequate supply. Again, as you expend glycogen, the carbs that you ingest replete your supply. Atkins asks you to give up carbs. At first you’re doing just fine because you have glycogen stored. After a day or two, you’re using up your stored glycogen and you’re not replacing it. Your body shortly thereafter begins producing ketone bodies. I mentioned Atkins’ praise of a ketotic state already. Let’s look a bit further into this condition. Ketones are intermediaries in the process of metabolizing fat that are found in abnormal amounts in the blood and urine during periods of metabolic impairment. Give up all of your stored glycogen without replacing it and you’re likely going to be in such a state (Note: if you take in too many protein calories, it is possible to avoid carbs and never enter a state of ketosis rendering his low-carb ketosis theories useless). Atkins leads you to believe that the presence of these ketone bodies indicates ongoing fat release. He also assures you that they feed the brain. That is partially true. Here are just a few of the issues he neglects to address: 1. Extended periods of ketosis affect the chemical composition of the blood in such a way that you increase risk of cardiac incident (blood ketoacidosis). 2. In a state of ketoacidosis, carbon dioxide accumulates in the tissues. Oxygen delivery to the cells is impaired. This can lead to a wide range of disastrous consequences ranging from respiratory ailments to metabolic illness. 3. Toxic ammonia buildup resulting from severe cases of ketoacidosis can be lethal. I believe Atkins neglects to share that information with readers. He also neglects to tell you that the liver is called into play to "filter" the abnormal chemicals building up in the blood. This leads to a residual buildup of uric acid. Interestingly, this uric acid accumulation can lead to . . . formation of kidney stones! Kidney stones may be common among low carb dieters, but don’t mistake that for an indication that they’re normal! If all is working optimally, uric acid levels stay quite manageable, the kidneys continue to function normally, and you will likely never have stones accumulating in your urinary tract. (Thefitnesstruth.com) —— I have a lot of friends on low carb diets and for years now I’ve just had a feeling that something wasn’t right, after all, we all didn’t learn the 5 food groups in kindergarten just to throw it away later in life. Dr. Atkins supports the idea of placing your body in a state of Ketosis, in fact, this is what causes his diet to work.  After reading some of those articles above I have to ask "Why?".  Why would anyone want to place their body in this unhealthy state? Here’s a summary of Ketosis.  Your body starts using stored fat cells to provide fuel after the carbs are depleted.  The energy provided to the brain is only a little over 50% of the energy it needs to function, as opposed to the 100% provided by carbohydrates.  Ironically, people in this state of Ketosis don’t realize their reactions are being affected BECAUSE thier brain is operating too slowly to tell (Sorta like being unable to see the forest from the trees). Victims of starvation and insulin dependant diabetics who missed their insulin, are the ones commonly found in this state.  The first two words in the encyclopedia’s entry are "metobolic disorder".  Why then are people flocking to this diet if it requires placing your body in harm’s way? Ketosis is a bodies reaction and defense against illness.  Not only are diabetics found in this sate, anyone who has been sick for prolonged periods of time (Influenza, Bronchitis, etc.) also suffer form Ketosis, since they don’t eat as much as they should and force their body to go into this state of "emergency".  Why do you think people lose weight and look sickly thin when they’ve been sick for a while? I just can’t stress enough how unnatural this is.  It’s unnatural to artificailly place a healthy body in this sate of emergency when

… read more »

Response:

OH BROTHER!!! I am not even going to go into trying to explain the safety and medical aspect of this diet – except to point out that Dr. Atkins is a Doctor, a cardiologist, in fact. Go buy his book. And there is a HUGE difference between ketosis and KETOACIDOSIS or Diabetic Ketoacidosis or DKA. After reading your "interesting" post, I went and did some research that would put the difference into simple English. I don’t know what your agenda is, but here is what I found from emedicine.com and thestream.com: KETOSIS "Ketosis is a metabolic state in which the body will burn fat for fuel and is producing "ketones" (also called ketone bodies) as a byproduct. This change in metabolism occurs when the body no longer has a supply of carbohydrates to produce glycogen and after the liver has been depleted of stored glycogen. When either stored body fat or incoming dietary fat is used as fuel it breaks down into ketones. Ketones can be used as fuel for your body or discarded via your breath or urination. It is the rise in ketone production that means you are "in ketosis". Take note that although you are in ketosis this does not mean that you are *only* burning body fat. The released ketones may be from either body fat or dietary fat. Obviously, since we are trying to lose weight, we want to be in a metabolic state where body fat is being burned off.  Therefore, understanding the biochemical foundation of ketosis, we cut starches and sugars, this is called "low carbing", and  without incoming carbs, and without consuming too many grams of dietary fat or protein, our bodies will be burning stored body fat as fuel. Positive side effects of being in ketosis are that it can be protein sparing (allowing us to retain lean body mass) and that it can lead to a decrease in appetite, for some people." KETOACIDOSIS on the other hand is caused by hyperglycemia which causes an osmotic diuresis that leads to excessive loss of free water and electrolytes. Resultant hypovolemia leads to tissue hypoperfusion and lactic acidosis. The danger from electrolyte imbalances are the consequences of hyperglycemia, hyperosmolality and acidosis. CARB DIET "This biochemical process is safe. It is not a "fad" diet, it is one that our ancestors at almost exclusively. High in lean meats, fresh fruits and vegetables, low in most carbohydrates.  For a typical American at least 70% of calories are provided by foods that were practically unavailable early human times, namely processed foods such as oils, margarine, refined sugar and cereals. These typical western foods are low in minerals, vitamins and soluble fiber but high in fat and salt. There is much evidence indicating that some of these dietary factors are important causes of common western disorders like CORONARY HEART DISEASE, STROKE and DIABETES.  Rather than being harmful, there is mounting evidence that the low carbohydrate diet is extremely helpful."

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Read these articles taken form various sites on the Web: ketosis – metabolic disorder marked by high levels of ketones in the tissues and body fluids, including blood and urine. There is less sugar than normal in the blood and less glycogen (the storage form of sugar) in the liver; fat accumulates in the liver, as do amino acids, from which the liver can produce more glycogen. Ketosis may be present in diabetes mellitus. When cattle are affected, they lose weight and produce less milk; dietary adjustment to meet the special requirements of individual cattle helps avoid the condition. (Britannica.com) Now this: With further fasting, lipolysis continues to increase for a few days before it plateaus at a high rate. A large proportion of elevated fatty acids are converted to the "ketone bodies" in the liver, a process enhanced by the high level of glucagon. The brain, previously an avid and fastidious consumer of glucose, begins to use ketones as well as glucose. Eventually, more than one-half of the brain’s daily metabolic energy needs are met by the ketone bodies, thus substantially diminishing the need for hepatic glucose production. The decrease in gluconeogenesis reduces the need for protein-derived amino acids, sparing muscle and making survival during prolonged fasting possible. Starvation is characterized by very low levels of insulin, elevated concentrations of glucagon, and very high concentration of circulating free fatty acids and ketones. (Britannica.com) — When you consume a healthful and supportive diet complete with proteins, carbs, and fats, the carbohydrates are broken down into glucose. Glucose is actually blood sugar. Some of that glucose is transported and stored in muscle tissue as "glycogen." This is sort of the fuel in your fuel tank. That’s important to understand. Glycogen = Fuel. Glycogen is used to produce energy that fuels muscle contraction. ALL muscle contraction! Don’t think of muscle contraction only as exercise. Any movement requires the contraction of muscle, from blinking your eye to rising from bed in the morning. Without glycogen, you don’t have any fuel in the fuel tank. As long as you’re consuming carbs, you continue to re-fuel. You access and burn up stored glycogen, but quickly replace it with new muscle fuel. An understanding of that simple fact, that carbohydrates are the source of muscle fuel should raise an immediate red flag toward anything that suggests eliminating carbs. Once you understand the basic premise behind muscle glycogen, you should understand that the liver also plays a role in fuel storage. Some of the carbs that you eat ultimately wind up stored as liver glycogen. Think of the liver as sort of a "pump" for blood sugar. The brain burns more calories than any other organ in your body, and guess what it uses as its primary source of fuel. Glucose! Carbohydrates! As the brain results in the "burning" of blood glucose, the liver accesses its glycogen stores to keep blood glucose in adequate supply. Again, as you expend glycogen, the carbs that you ingest replete your supply. Atkins asks you to give up carbs. At first you’re doing just fine because you have glycogen stored. After a day or two, you’re using up your stored glycogen and you’re not replacing it. Your body shortly thereafter begins producing ketone bodies. I mentioned Atkins’ praise of a ketotic state already. Let’s look a bit further into this condition. Ketones are intermediaries in the process of metabolizing fat that are found in abnormal amounts in the blood and urine during periods of metabolic impairment. Give up all of your stored glycogen without replacing it and you’re likely going to be in such a state (Note: if you take in too many protein calories, it is possible to avoid carbs and never enter a state of ketosis rendering his low-carb ketosis theories useless). Atkins leads you to believe that the presence of these ketone bodies indicates ongoing fat release. He also assures you that they feed the brain. That is partially true. Here are just a few of the issues he neglects to address: 1. Extended periods of ketosis affect the chemical composition of the blood in such a way that you increase risk of cardiac incident (blood ketoacidosis). 2. In a state of ketoacidosis, carbon dioxide accumulates in the tissues. Oxygen delivery to the cells is impaired. This can lead to a wide range of disastrous consequences ranging from respiratory ailments to metabolic illness. 3. Toxic ammonia buildup resulting from severe cases of ketoacidosis can be lethal. I believe Atkins neglects to share that information with readers. He also neglects to tell you that the liver is called into play to "filter" the abnormal chemicals building up in the blood. This leads to a residual buildup of uric acid. Interestingly, this uric acid accumulation can lead to . . . formation of kidney stones! Kidney stones may be common among low carb dieters, but don’t mistake that for an indication that they’re normal! If all is working optimally, uric acid levels stay quite manageable, the kidneys continue to function normally, and you will likely never have stones accumulating in your urinary tract. (Thefitnesstruth.com) —— I have a lot of friends on low carb diets and for years now I’ve just had a feeling that something wasn’t right, after all, we all didn’t learn the 5 food groups in kindergarten just to throw it away later in life. Dr. Atkins supports the idea of placing your body in a state of Ketosis, in fact, this is what causes his diet to work.  After reading some of those articles above I have to ask "Why?".  Why would anyone want to place their body in this unhealthy state? Here’s a summary of Ketosis.  Your body starts using stored fat cells to provide fuel after the carbs are depleted.  The energy provided to the brain is only a little over 50% of the energy it needs to function, as opposed to the 100% provided by carbohydrates.  Ironically, people in this state of Ketosis don’t realize their reactions are being affected BECAUSE thier brain is operating too slowly to tell (Sorta like being unable to see the forest from the trees). Victims of starvation and insulin dependant diabetics who missed their insulin, are the ones commonly found in this state.  The first two words in the encyclopedia’s entry are "metobolic disorder".  Why then are people flocking to this diet if it requires placing your body in harm’s way? Ketosis is a bodies reaction and defense against illness.  Not only are diabetics found in this sate, anyone who has been sick for prolonged periods of time (Influenza, Bronchitis, etc.) also suffer form Ketosis,

… read more »

Response:

I don’t sell anything, actually I work for the Wildlife Conservation Society. I just hate, fads, fashions, pop culture and anything else that worms its way into the mainstream culture by praying on the desperate.  This whole Dr. "Quack" Atkins thing just hits a nerve; a very sore nerve at that! Anyway, I didn’t notice any ads in that message *shrug*. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wow Doc! Looks like you are selling a few products of your own! Is that "for the betterment of man-kind" or your pocketbook? —              :-)     LiLi                              (180/169/125) Read these articles taken form various sites on the Web: ketosis – metabolic disorder marked by high levels of ketones in the tissues and body fluids, including blood and urine. There is less sugar than normal in the blood and less glycogen (the storage form of sugar) in the liver; fat accumulates in the liver, as do amino acids, from which the liver can produce more glycogen. Ketosis may be present in diabetes mellitus. When cattle are affected, they lose weight and produce less milk; dietary adjustment to meet the special requirements of individual cattle helps avoid the condition. (Britannica.com) Now this: With further fasting, lipolysis continues to increase for a few days before it plateaus at a high rate. A large proportion of elevated fatty acids are converted to the "ketone bodies" in the liver, a process enhanced by the high level of glucagon. The brain, previously an avid and fastidious consumer of glucose, begins to use ketones as well as glucose. Eventually, more than one-half of the brain’s daily metabolic energy needs are met by the ketone bodies, thus substantially diminishing the need for hepatic glucose production. The decrease in gluconeogenesis reduces the need for protein-derived amino acids, sparing muscle and making survival during prolonged fasting possible. Starvation is characterized by very low levels of insulin, elevated concentrations of glucagon, and very high concentration of circulating free fatty acids and ketones. (Britannica.com) — When you consume a healthful and supportive diet complete with proteins, carbs, and fats, the carbohydrates are broken down into glucose. Glucose is actually blood sugar. Some of that glucose is transported and stored in muscle tissue as "glycogen." This is sort of the fuel in your fuel tank. That’s important to understand. Glycogen = Fuel. Glycogen is used to produce energy that fuels muscle contraction. ALL muscle contraction! Don’t think of muscle contraction only as exercise. Any movement requires the contraction of muscle, from blinking your eye to rising from bed in the morning. Without glycogen, you don’t have any fuel in the fuel tank. As long as you’re consuming carbs, you continue to re-fuel. You access and burn up stored glycogen, but quickly replace it with new muscle fuel. An understanding of that simple fact, that carbohydrates are the source of muscle fuel should raise an immediate red flag toward anything that suggests eliminating carbs. Once you understand the basic premise behind muscle glycogen, you should understand that the liver also plays a role in fuel storage. Some of the carbs that you eat ultimately wind up stored as liver glycogen. Think of the liver as sort of a "pump" for blood sugar. The brain burns more calories than any other organ in your body, and guess what it uses as its primary source of fuel. Glucose! Carbohydrates! As the brain results in the "burning" of blood glucose, the liver accesses its glycogen stores to keep blood glucose in adequate supply. Again, as you expend glycogen, the carbs that you ingest replete your supply. Atkins asks you to give up carbs. At first you’re doing just fine because you have glycogen stored. After a day or two, you’re using up your stored glycogen and you’re not replacing it. Your body shortly thereafter begins producing ketone bodies. I mentioned Atkins’ praise of a ketotic state already. Let’s look a bit further into this condition. Ketones are intermediaries in the process of metabolizing fat that are found in abnormal amounts in the blood and urine during periods of metabolic impairment. Give up all of your stored glycogen without replacing it and you’re likely going to be in such a state (Note: if you take in too many protein calories, it is possible to avoid carbs and never enter a state of ketosis rendering his low-carb ketosis theories useless). Atkins leads you to believe that the presence of these ketone bodies indicates ongoing fat release. He also assures you that they feed the brain. That is partially true. Here are just a few of the issues he neglects to address: 1. Extended periods of ketosis affect the chemical composition of the blood in such a way that you increase risk of cardiac incident (blood ketoacidosis). 2. In a state of ketoacidosis, carbon dioxide accumulates in the tissues. Oxygen delivery to the cells is impaired. This can lead to a wide range of disastrous consequences ranging from respiratory ailments to metabolic illness. 3. Toxic ammonia buildup resulting from severe cases of ketoacidosis can be lethal. I believe Atkins neglects to share that information with readers. He also neglects to tell you that the liver is called into play to "filter" the abnormal chemicals building up in the blood. This leads to a residual buildup of uric acid. Interestingly, this uric acid accumulation can lead to . . . formation of kidney stones! Kidney stones may be common among low carb dieters, but don’t mistake that for an indication that they’re normal! If all is working optimally, uric acid levels stay quite manageable, the kidneys continue to function normally, and you will likely never have stones accumulating in your urinary tract. (Thefitnesstruth.com) —— I have a lot of friends on low carb diets and for years now I’ve just had a feeling that something wasn’t right, after all, we all didn’t learn the 5 food groups in kindergarten just to throw it away later in life. Dr. Atkins supports the idea of placing your body in a state of Ketosis, in fact, this is what causes his diet to work.  After reading some of those articles above I have to ask "Why?".  Why would anyone want to place their body in this unhealthy state? Here’s a summary of Ketosis.  Your body starts using stored fat cells to provide fuel after the carbs are depleted.  The energy provided to the brain is only a little over 50% of the energy it needs to function, as opposed to the 100% provided by carbohydrates.  Ironically, people in this state of Ketosis don’t realize their reactions are being affected BECAUSE thier brain is operating too slowly to tell (Sorta like being unable to see the forest from the trees). Victims of starvation and insulin dependant diabetics who missed their insulin, are the ones commonly found in this state.  The first two words in the encyclopedia’s entry are "metobolic disorder".  Why then are people flocking to this diet if it requires placing your body in harm’s way? Ketosis is a bodies reaction and defense against illness.  Not only are diabetics found in this sate, anyone who has been sick for prolonged periods of time (Influenza, Bronchitis, etc.) also suffer form Ketosis, since they don’t eat as much as they should and force their body to go into this state of "emergency".  Why do you think people lose weight and look sickly thin when they’ve been sick for a while? I just can’t stress enough how unnatural this is.  It’s unnatural to artificailly place a healthy body in this sate of emergency when everything you need for a healthy living is right there in front of you. I could stand to lose a few pounds myself.  I was tempted to try a diet like this, but declined since it just didn’t sound right.  After reading what I have, I’m glad I did.  I hope some of you out there haven’t been completely suckered ito this diet by Atkins’ promise.  What he sells is a half-truth.  He lives by the phrase "A sucker is born every minute". Think about it, if he was doing this for the betterment of man-kind, why would he sell his products???

Response:

Wow Doc! Looks like you are selling a few products of your own! Is that "for the betterment of man-kind" or your pocketbook? —              :-)     LiLi                              (180/169/125)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Read these articles taken form various sites on the Web: ketosis – metabolic disorder marked by high levels of ketones in the tissues and body fluids, including blood and urine. There is less sugar than normal in the blood and less glycogen (the storage form of sugar) in the liver; fat accumulates in the liver, as do amino acids, from which the liver can produce more glycogen. Ketosis may be present in diabetes mellitus. When cattle are affected, they lose weight and produce less milk; dietary adjustment to meet the special requirements of individual cattle helps avoid the condition. (Britannica.com) Now this: With further fasting, lipolysis continues to increase for a few days before it plateaus at a high rate. A large proportion of elevated fatty acids are converted to the "ketone bodies" in the liver, a process enhanced by the high level of glucagon. The brain, previously an avid and fastidious consumer of glucose, begins to use ketones as well as glucose. Eventually, more than one-half of the brain’s daily metabolic energy needs are met by the ketone bodies, thus substantially diminishing the need for hepatic glucose production. The decrease in gluconeogenesis reduces the need for protein-derived amino acids, sparing muscle and making survival during prolonged fasting possible. Starvation is characterized by very low levels of insulin, elevated concentrations of glucagon, and very high concentration of circulating free fatty acids and ketones. (Britannica.com) — When you consume a healthful and supportive diet complete with proteins, carbs, and fats, the carbohydrates are broken down into glucose. Glucose is actually blood sugar. Some of that glucose is transported and stored in muscle tissue as "glycogen." This is sort of the fuel in your fuel tank. That’s important to understand. Glycogen = Fuel. Glycogen is used to produce energy that fuels muscle contraction. ALL muscle contraction! Don’t think of muscle contraction only as exercise. Any movement requires the contraction of muscle, from blinking your eye to rising from bed in the morning. Without glycogen, you don’t have any fuel in the fuel tank. As long as you’re consuming carbs, you continue to re-fuel. You access and burn up stored glycogen, but quickly replace it with new muscle fuel. An understanding of that simple fact, that carbohydrates are the source of muscle fuel should raise an immediate red flag toward anything that suggests eliminating carbs. Once you understand the basic premise behind muscle glycogen, you should understand that the liver also plays a role in fuel storage. Some of the carbs that you eat ultimately wind up stored as liver glycogen. Think of the liver as sort of a "pump" for blood sugar. The brain burns more calories than any other organ in your body, and guess what it uses as its primary source of fuel. Glucose! Carbohydrates! As the brain results in the "burning" of blood glucose, the liver accesses its glycogen stores to keep blood glucose in adequate supply. Again, as you expend glycogen, the carbs that you ingest replete your supply. Atkins asks you to give up carbs. At first you’re doing just fine because you have glycogen stored. After a day or two, you’re using up your stored glycogen and you’re not replacing it. Your body shortly thereafter begins producing ketone bodies. I mentioned Atkins’ praise of a ketotic state already. Let’s look a bit further into this condition. Ketones are intermediaries in the process of metabolizing fat that are found in abnormal amounts in the blood and urine during periods of metabolic impairment. Give up all of your stored glycogen without replacing it and you’re likely going to be in such a state (Note: if you take in too many protein calories, it is possible to avoid carbs and never enter a state of ketosis rendering his low-carb ketosis theories useless). Atkins leads you to believe that the presence of these ketone bodies indicates ongoing fat release. He also assures you that they feed the brain. That is partially true. Here are just a few of the issues he neglects to address: 1. Extended periods of ketosis affect the chemical composition of the blood in such a way that you increase risk of cardiac incident (blood ketoacidosis). 2. In a state of ketoacidosis, carbon dioxide accumulates in the tissues. Oxygen delivery to the cells is impaired. This can lead to a wide range of disastrous consequences ranging from respiratory ailments to metabolic illness. 3. Toxic ammonia buildup resulting from severe cases of ketoacidosis can be lethal. I believe Atkins neglects to share that information with readers. He also neglects to tell you that the liver is called into play to "filter" the abnormal chemicals building up in the blood. This leads to a residual buildup of uric acid. Interestingly, this uric acid accumulation can lead to . . . formation of kidney stones! Kidney stones may be common among low carb dieters, but don’t mistake that for an indication that they’re normal! If all is working optimally, uric acid levels stay quite manageable, the kidneys continue to function normally, and you will likely never have stones accumulating in your urinary tract. (Thefitnesstruth.com) —— I have a lot of friends on low carb diets and for years now I’ve just had a feeling that something wasn’t right, after all, we all didn’t learn the 5 food groups in kindergarten just to throw it away later in life. Dr. Atkins supports the idea of placing your body in a state of Ketosis, in fact, this is what causes his diet to work.  After reading some of those articles above I have to ask "Why?".  Why would anyone want to place their body in this unhealthy state? Here’s a summary of Ketosis.  Your body starts using stored fat cells to provide fuel after the carbs are depleted.  The energy provided to the brain is only a little over 50% of the energy it needs to function, as opposed to the 100% provided by carbohydrates.  Ironically, people in this state of Ketosis don’t realize their reactions are being affected BECAUSE thier brain is operating too slowly to tell (Sorta like being unable to see the forest from the trees). Victims of starvation and insulin dependant diabetics who missed their insulin, are the ones commonly found in this state.  The first two words in the encyclopedia’s entry are "metobolic disorder".  Why then are people flocking to this diet if it requires placing your body in harm’s way? Ketosis is a bodies reaction and defense against illness.  Not only are diabetics found in this sate, anyone who has been sick for prolonged periods of time (Influenza, Bronchitis, etc.) also suffer form Ketosis, since they don’t eat as much as they should and force their body to go into this state of "emergency".  Why do you think people lose weight and look sickly thin when they’ve been sick for a while? I just can’t stress enough how unnatural this is.  It’s unnatural to artificailly place a healthy body in this sate of emergency when everything you need for a healthy living is right there in front of you. I could stand to lose a few pounds myself.  I was tempted to try a diet like this, but declined since it just didn’t sound right.  After reading what I have, I’m glad I did.  I hope some of you out there haven’t been completely suckered ito this diet by Atkins’ promise.  What he sells is a half-truth.  He lives by the phrase "A sucker is born every minute". Think about it, if he was doing this for the betterment of man-kind, why would he sell his products???

Response:

Read these articles taken form various sites on the Web: ketosis – metabolic disorder marked by high levels of ketones in the tissues and body fluids, including blood and urine. There is less sugar than normal in the blood and less glycogen (the storage form of sugar) in the liver; fat accumulates in the liver, as do amino acids, from which the liver can produce more glycogen. Ketosis may be present in diabetes mellitus. When cattle are affected, they lose weight and produce less milk; dietary adjustment to meet the special requirements of individual cattle helps avoid the condition. (Britannica.com) Now this: With further fasting, lipolysis continues to increase for a few days before it plateaus at a high rate. A large proportion of elevated fatty acids are converted to the "ketone bodies" in the liver, a process enhanced by the high level of glucagon. The brain, previously an avid and fastidious consumer of glucose, begins to use ketones as well as glucose. Eventually, more than one-half of the brain’s daily metabolic energy needs are met by the ketone bodies, thus substantially diminishing the need for hepatic glucose production. The decrease in gluconeogenesis reduces the need for protein-derived amino acids, sparing muscle and making survival during prolonged fasting possible. Starvation is characterized by very low levels of insulin, elevated concentrations of glucagon, and very high concentration of circulating free fatty acids and ketones. (Britannica.com) — When you consume a healthful and supportive diet complete with proteins, carbs, and fats, the carbohydrates are broken down into glucose. Glucose is actually blood sugar. Some of that glucose is transported and stored in muscle tissue as "glycogen." This is sort of the fuel in your fuel tank. That’s important to understand. Glycogen = Fuel. Glycogen is used to produce energy that fuels muscle contraction. ALL muscle contraction! Don’t think of muscle contraction only as exercise. Any movement requires the contraction of muscle, from blinking your eye to rising from bed in the morning. Without glycogen, you don’t have any fuel in the fuel tank. As long as you’re consuming carbs, you continue to re-fuel. You access and burn up stored glycogen, but quickly replace it with new muscle fuel. An understanding of that simple fact, that carbohydrates are the source of muscle fuel should raise an immediate red flag toward anything that suggests eliminating carbs. Once you understand the basic premise behind muscle glycogen, you should understand that the liver also plays a role in fuel storage. Some of the carbs that you eat ultimately wind up stored as liver glycogen. Think of the liver as sort of a "pump" for blood sugar. The brain burns more calories than any other organ in your body, and guess what it uses as its primary source of fuel. Glucose! Carbohydrates! As the brain results in the "burning" of blood glucose, the liver accesses its glycogen stores to keep blood glucose in adequate supply. Again, as you expend glycogen, the carbs that you ingest replete your supply. Atkins asks you to give up carbs. At first you’re doing just fine because you have glycogen stored. After a day or two, you’re using up your stored glycogen and you’re not replacing it. Your body shortly thereafter begins producing ketone bodies. I mentioned Atkins’ praise of a ketotic state already. Let’s look a bit further into this condition. Ketones are intermediaries in the process of metabolizing fat that are found in abnormal amounts in the blood and urine during periods of metabolic impairment. Give up all of your stored glycogen without replacing it and you’re likely going to be in such a state (Note: if you take in too many protein calories, it is possible to avoid carbs and never enter a state of ketosis rendering his low-carb ketosis theories useless). Atkins leads you to believe that the presence of these ketone bodies indicates ongoing fat release. He also assures you that they feed the brain. That is partially true. Here are just a few of the issues he neglects to address: 1. Extended periods of ketosis affect the chemical composition of the blood in such a way that you increase risk of cardiac incident (blood ketoacidosis). 2. In a state of ketoacidosis, carbon dioxide accumulates in the tissues. Oxygen delivery to the cells is impaired. This can lead to a wide range of disastrous consequences ranging from respiratory ailments to metabolic illness. 3. Toxic ammonia buildup resulting from severe cases of ketoacidosis can be lethal. I believe Atkins neglects to share that information with readers. He also neglects to tell you that the liver is called into play to "filter" the abnormal chemicals building up in the blood. This leads to a residual buildup of uric acid. Interestingly, this uric acid accumulation can lead to . . . formation of kidney stones! Kidney stones may be common among low carb dieters, but don’t mistake that for an indication that they’re normal! If all is working optimally, uric acid levels stay quite manageable, the kidneys continue to function normally, and you will likely never have stones accumulating in your urinary tract. (Thefitnesstruth.com) —— I have a lot of friends on low carb diets and for years now I’ve just had a feeling that something wasn’t right, after all, we all didn’t learn the 5 food groups in kindergarten just to throw it away later in life. Dr. Atkins supports the idea of placing your body in a state of Ketosis, in fact, this is what causes his diet to work.  After reading some of those articles above I have to ask "Why?".  Why would anyone want to place their body in this unhealthy state? Here’s a summary of Ketosis.  Your body starts using stored fat cells to provide fuel after the carbs are depleted.  The energy provided to the brain is only a little over 50% of the energy it needs to function, as opposed to the 100% provided by carbohydrates.  Ironically, people in this state of Ketosis don’t realize their reactions are being affected BECAUSE thier brain is operating too slowly to tell (Sorta like being unable to see the forest from the trees). Victims of starvation and insulin dependant diabetics who missed their insulin, are the ones commonly found in this state.  The first two words in the encyclopedia’s entry are "metobolic disorder".  Why then are people flocking to this diet if it requires placing your body in harm’s way? Ketosis is a bodies reaction and defense against illness.  Not only are diabetics found in this sate, anyone who has been sick for prolonged periods of time (Influenza, Bronchitis, etc.) also suffer form Ketosis, since they don’t eat as much as they should and force their body to go into this state of "emergency".  Why do you think people lose weight and look sickly thin when they’ve been sick for a while? I just can’t stress enough how unnatural this is.  It’s unnatural to artificailly place a healthy body in this sate of emergency when everything you need for a healthy living is right there in front of you. I could stand to lose a few pounds myself.  I was tempted to try a diet like this, but declined since it just didn’t sound right.  After reading what I have, I’m glad I did.  I hope some of you out there haven’t been completely suckered ito this diet by Atkins’ promise.  What he sells is a half-truth.  He lives by the phrase "A sucker is born every minute". Think about it, if he was doing this for the betterment of man-kind, why would he sell his products???

Response:

Question:

1. Is there an easy way to discontinue Paxil? the withdrawal symptoms are horrible! 2. What is the safest anti-depressant in terms of not causing weight gain?? (I suffered a lot with Effexor and Paxil, think about something else!) Thanks! S. "Some measure their lives by days and years,       Others by heart throbs, passion and tears;  But the surest measure under the sun,       Is what in your lifetime for others you have done."

Response:

1. Is there an easy way to discontinue Paxil? the withdrawal symptoms are horrible! 2. What is the safest anti-depressant in terms of not causing weight gain?? (I suffered a lot with Effexor and Paxil, think about something else!) Thanks! S.

I have come to the conclusion that everyone responds differently to these meds and it’s hard to base what will work for you on something that worked for someone else. I gained weight on paxil, about 20lbs in three months. I stopped the paxil and immediately started prozac.  After about seven months and a little more weight gain, I stopped the prozac because it wasn’t working well enough.  Then I went to zoloft, which also caused a little weight gain, and was not very effective.  Getting off zoloft was awful for me, I had to continue taking it while I started wellbutrine.  This combo was fairly effective, but really made me tired, too tired to exercise. Then I went on effexor, which worked so well for me.  I wasn’t tired, I didn’t gain weight, it worked fast and for over a year.  I just recently had a major crash, and my doctor added celexa and upped the effexor to 375mg.  The celexa stopped the suicidal ideation within three days.  That was great, I don’t know how it will work in the long run, but so far I’m not hungry or extremely tired.  Of course I wasn’t hungry before the celexa so I don’t know if this is still of symptom of the depression or an effect of the med. Good Luck, Kait * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 1. Is there an easy way to discontinue Paxil? the withdrawal symptoms are horrible! 2. What is the safest anti-depressant in terms of not causing weight gain?? (I suffered a lot with Effexor and Paxil, think about something else!) Thanks! S. I have come to the conclusion that everyone responds differently to these meds and it’s hard to base what will work for you on something that worked for someone else. I gained weight on paxil, about 20lbs in three months. I stopped the paxil and immediately started prozac.  After about seven months and a little more weight gain, I stopped the prozac because it wasn’t working well enough.  Then I went to zoloft, which also caused a little weight gain, and was not very effective.  Getting off zoloft was awful for me, I had to continue taking it while I started wellbutrine.  This combo was fairly effective, but really made me tired, too tired to exercise. Then I went on effexor, which worked so well for me.  I wasn’t tired, I didn’t gain weight, it worked fast and for over a year.  I just recently had a major crash, and my doctor added celexa and upped the effexor to 375mg.  The celexa stopped the suicidal ideation within three days.  That was great, I don’t know how it will work in the long run, but so far I’m not hungry or extremely tired.  Of course I wasn’t hungry before the celexa so I don’t know if this is still of symptom of the depression or an effect of the med. Good Luck, Kait

Would you happen to know what Effexor is called in the UK? Brian

Response:

1. Is there an easy way to discontinue Paxil? the withdrawal symptoms are horrible!

Twice almost cold turkey, back on 20 mg again. Couldn’t stand the withdrawal. Third time, chahnged it to Prozac (also 20 mg), and went down with the dose very gradually. Not biting the capsules in half, but simply forgetting about taking it. Once every day, then every other day, now I take it only when the time is rough. Don’t know if it can help you, but this is like, my only experience….. DG

Response:

Would you happen to know what Effexor is called in the UK?

Yes. (Tempting, but I suppose I could answer the question you didn’t ask as well, and say it’s venlafaxine, brand-named Efexor (Yes, only one ‘f’ over here, presumably there’s a effin shortage.).) —          The opinions given above may be mine. They might also            just be what I feel like saying right now, okay?

Response:

2. What is the safest anti-depressant in terms of not causing weight gain?? (I suffered a lot with Effexor and Paxil, think about something else!)

I, too, think that everyone responds very differently. The only med I’ve taken that caused me to gain weight was Celexa, and even then it was minimal. I’ve been on Zoloft, Effexor, Prozac, Serzone, you name it — currently taking a combination that includes Wellbutrin and Luvox. I’ve lost more weight than I’ve gained, actually. … Ask your doc about this, though, b/c I know that some meds are not associated w/weight gain. There’s no reason you should have to suffer from something *else*. Hope you feel better.

Response:

Question:

Ditto to everything Chip and Randee posted.  There is absolutely no evidence to support that any SSRI causes permanent brain damage….in rats or in humans….and they sliced up a lot of rodents to find this out.  SPECT and MRI scans indicate the same for humans….and I’m sure that over the next decade, posthumous studies will produce the same results.  What you should know is that the average age of onset for most Axis I diagnoses is 18-25. More than likely your continued problems are as Philip described synchronous rather than caused by the meds.  We have all been angry about the seeming failure of our body chemistry as expressed by psych symptoms.  However, blaming it on the meds, is a cop-out of taking responsibility for making yourself well…..and posting such accusations here causes a lot of unnecessary worry by people who need their energies to focus on REAL problems.  Get some counseling.   ~Valerie

Response:

I take zoloft and I was crazy before I took it. Panic and the constant thought pattern ruined my life. Zoloft has really helped me. Yes, I had some side effects but nothing like I had on other meds. I will not say neg on xanex but I am sure long term use may also cause you to go crazy. I also have psoriasis and this is not caused by zoloft. Got that before the zoloft or panic. Read up on psoriasis.Psoriasis may aggrivate the zoloft. Some meds do. Good luck on your research but remember many of us need this medication and unless you are 100% sure of what you have found I would be careful before you scare to many people. Joan

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     ***I’m trying to get to the bottom of this *** I am posting this because of this problem and research I am doing on Zoloft… I have also found another person that has te same exact problems that I have because of this anti-depressant.. First of all , I think it causes permanent brain damage.. I also think that a person who starts out on zoloft will need some sort of anti-depressant for the rest of their life because of the damage it does.. Well, I’ll just try to be short here because I dont know how many of you will have the same problem..   When I was 18, I took zoloft.. I felt very weird in the beggining. Like a draining , kind of brain meltdown feeling… And ever since then (6 years without zoloft) I have had a constant numbing feeling on the left side of my head… It makes me feel more prone to stress/anxiety/panic.. Since then I have also developed a social phobia , psoriasis , and psoriatic arthritis….  Even though I was a little depressed when I was 18, I never knew that this crazyness was going to happen.. It made my condition much worse.. Now i’m stuck with taking xanax for the rest of my life….Anybody else expierence simaler symptoms?? We should sue these damn companies for this garbage.

I’d say it’s doubtful that your complaints are the result of having taken Zoloft. There seems to be a *synchronicity* here but not necessarily a *causal* relationship. It might be the original anxiety for all I know (or can conclude from the sparse data you provided). Does Xanax work for these symptoms as you say that you’re taking it? If it works (at what dose?) it’s obviously a better med for you than Zoloft was. Some of us (including me) will have to be on meds for the rest of our lives. I’d rather not be on meds but it’s the only way for me to have a life. You may be just like me… Philip

Response:

    ***I’m trying to get to the bottom of this *** I am posting this because of this problem and research I am doing on Zoloft… I have also found another person that has te same exact problems that I have because of this anti-depressant.. First of all , I think it causes permanent brain damage.. I also think that a person who starts out on zoloft will need some sort of anti-depressant for the rest of their life because of the damage it does..

 Well, I’ll just try to be short here because I dont know how many of you will have the same problem..   When I was 18, I took zoloft.. I felt very weird in the beggining. Like a draining , kind of brain meltdown feeling… And ever since then (6 years without zoloft) I have had a constant numbing feeling on the left side of my head… It makes me feel more prone to stress/anxiety/panic.. Since then I have also developed a social phobia , psoriasis , and psoriatic arthritis….  Even though I was a little depressed when I was 18, I never knew that this crazyness was going to happen.. It made my condition much worse.. Now i’m stuck with taking xanax for the rest of my life….Anybody else expierence simaler symptoms?? We should sue these damn companies for this garbage.

Mike you can spend the rest of your life trying to figure out why you have this disorder. I seriously doubt that Zoloft is the cause. You were put on Zoloft for a reason, what was that reason? Depression and anxiety are closely related. My disorder started when I was 18, one day I was fine and the next day I was different. Mike you can try to find the reason for your disorder, and try to place blame. You are going to make yourself nuts trying to find the cause. Even if you do find the cause, it won`t help you much. Unless you accept your disorder and own it, you are not going to move on and get better. There are many people that have never been on anti-depressants, that have depression, anxiety, panic, social phobia and psoriasis. How do you explain that Mike? Take all this energy that you are using to blame Zoloft into getting better instead. Jackie

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Would it be safe to say…that Zoloft is a powerful drug?For me the answer is YES. Did Zoloft increase my Anxiety?…yes for me it did! The first month or so were the weirdest (kind of a slight mania….depersonalization ) it pretty much went away.(.except for Anxiety) the longer I stayed on it! I can see how it can help people, I think it helped me with a uplifting state of mind; but it didn’t seem to be worth the price of continuing if I still had to deal Tension and Anxiety. I have discontinued Zoloft for about 2 weeks and I can’t tell much difference; except I can tell I’m not quite as know) I wanted them all to work wonders for me…but they created there own little draw-backs. I’ve given Zoloft 2 trys. I can see why somebody posted about the effects of this drug…I’ve read many places and from ASAP posters on the things I went through…I know that I’m not alone. BUT I know this drug has worked wonders for many other people. Anyway just sharing…not an expert(Obviously) Oh by the way if anybody can offer me a better alternative drug….I’m all EARS! Thanks Much       Wild & Crazy                                                            P.S. my other 2 drugs are Trazodone and Zanax( I really like the Zanax!) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     ***I’m trying to get to the bottom of this *** I am posting this because of this problem and research I am doing on Zoloft… I have also found another person that has te same exact problems that I have because of this anti-depressant.. First of all , I think it causes permanent brain damage.. I also think that a person who starts out on zoloft will need some sort of anti-depressant for the rest of their life because of the damage it does.. Well, I’ll just try to be short here because I dont know how many of you will have the same problem..   When I was 18, I took zoloft.. I felt very weird in the beggining. Like a draining , kind of brain meltdown feeling… And ever since then (6 years without zoloft) I have had a constant numbing feeling on the left side of my head… It makes me feel more prone to stress/anxiety/panic.. Since then I have also developed a social phobia , psoriasis , and psoriatic arthritis….  Even though I was a little depressed when I was 18, I never knew that this crazyness was going to happen.. It made my condition much worse.. Now i’m stuck with taking xanax for the rest of my life….Anybody else expierence simaler symptoms?? We should sue these damn companies for this garbage. My wife has been on Imiprimine, Luvox, and Zoloft.  The imiprimine helped her depression but the side effects were almost bad enough that the depression was better.  The Luvox had very mild side effects, but it didn’t do much for her depression.  Zoloft has been effective with her depression and with very mild side effects.  I see no evidence of brain dammage. I was on prozac (an SSRI, the same family as Zoloft) for 2 weeks.  It gave me tinnitus and halucinations.  I won’t take an SSRI again.  These are very rare side effects for Prozac, but I’m not the first to get them.  However, just because SSRIs are a bad choice for me, doesn’t mean that huge numbers of users haven’t been helped by them.  Xanax is what helps me, and I may have to take it the rest of my life, but there’s enough research to suggest that there’s a good chance that I won’t. If Zoloft really does cause brain dammage, I think it would of turned up prior to now.  I agree with the prior posts that say you have an anxiety/panc disorder that just happend to manifest itself after you went off the Zoloft. I would also say that you at least have a chance that it’s not permenant. Good Luck,  Mark Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     ***I’m trying to get to the bottom of this *** I am posting this because of this problem and research I am doing on Zoloft… I have also found another person that has te same exact problems that I have because of this anti-depressant.. First of all , I think it causes permanent brain damage.. I also think that a person who starts out on zoloft will need some sort of anti-depressant for the rest of their life because of the damage it does.. Well, I’ll just try to be short here because I dont know how many of you will have the same problem..   When I was 18, I took zoloft.. I felt very weird in the beggining. Like a draining , kind of brain meltdown feeling… And ever since then (6 years without zoloft) I have had a constant numbing feeling on the left side of my head… It makes me feel more prone to stress/anxiety/panic.. Since then I have also developed a social phobia , psoriasis , and psoriatic arthritis….  Even though I was a little depressed when I was 18, I never knew that this crazyness was going to happen.. It made my condition much worse.. Now i’m stuck with taking xanax for the rest of my life….Anybody else expierence simaler symptoms?? We should sue these damn companies for this garbage.

My wife has been on Imiprimine, Luvox, and Zoloft.  The imiprimine helped her depression but the side effects were almost bad enough that the depression was better.  The Luvox had very mild side effects, but it didn’t do much for her depression.  Zoloft has been effective with her depression and with very mild side effects.  I see no evidence of brain dammage. I was on prozac (an SSRI, the same family as Zoloft) for 2 weeks.  It gave me tinnitus and halucinations.  I won’t take an SSRI again.  These are very rare side effects for Prozac, but I’m not the first to get them.  However, just because SSRIs are a bad choice for me, doesn’t mean that huge numbers of users haven’t been helped by them.  Xanax is what helps me, and I may have to take it the rest of my life, but there’s enough research to suggest that there’s a good chance that I won’t. If Zoloft really does cause brain dammage, I think it would of turned up prior to now.  I agree with the prior posts that say you have an anxiety/panc disorder that just happend to manifest itself after you went off the Zoloft. I would also say that you at least have a chance that it’s not permenant. Good Luck,   Mark Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I am posting this because of this problem and research I am doing on Zoloft… I have also found another person that has te same exact problems that I have because of this anti-depressant.. First of all , I think it causes permanent brain damage.. I also think that a person who starts out on zoloft will need some sort of anti-depressant for the rest of their life because of the damage it does.. Well, I’ll just try to be short here because I dont know how many of you will have the same problem..  When I was 18, I took zoloft.. I felt very weird in the beggining. Like a draining , kind of brain meltdown feeling… And ever since then (6 years without zoloft) I have had a constant numbing feeling on the left side of my head… It makes me feel more prone to stress/anxiety/panic.. Since then I have also developed a social phobia , psoriasis , and psoriatic arthritis….  Even though I was a little depressed when I was 18, I never knew that this crazyness was going to happen.. It made my condition much worse.. Now i’m stuck with taking xanax for the rest of my life….Anybody else expierence simaler symptoms?? We should sue these damn companies for this garbage.

You may be confusing cause and effect here. There are many people on this NG who take or have taken Zoloft as well as many other AD’s. The symptoms that you describe could mean that you are still have problems with depression. I’m not saying outright that you are wrong, however, there is no current evidence to support your claim, either from the med reaearch or, more importantly, anecodotes posted to the NG’s. Is it possible than somehow in your mind that it might be easier to believe your symptoms were induced by your use of Zoloft than to acknowledge that you have an ongoing problem with Panic and/or depression? Keep us up to date if you find any research on the topic. Regards, JaneB

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   These kind of messages really make me mad.Keep your opinions to yourself. Its not enough that I have to take this but then there are people like you who have to make it worse for me.Zoloft is really helping me and I definatly have no brain damage and i’m not depressed.So when you have real proof then post it!!!! Randee

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     ***I’m trying to get to the bottom of this *** I am posting this because of this problem and research I am doing on Zoloft… I have also found another person that has te same exact problems that I have because of this anti-depressant.. First of all , I think it causes permanent brain damage.. I also think that a person who starts out on zoloft will need some sort of anti-depressant for the rest of their life because of the damage it does.. Well, I’ll just try to be short here because I dont know how many of you will have the same problem..   When I was 18, I took zoloft.. I felt very weird in the beggining. Like a draining , kind of brain meltdown feeling… And ever since then (6 years without zoloft) I have had a constant numbing feeling on the left side of my head… It makes me feel more prone to stress/anxiety/panic.. Since then I have also developed a social phobia , psoriasis , and psoriatic arthritis….  Even though I was a little depressed when I was 18, I never knew that this crazyness was going to happen.. It made my condition much worse.. Now i’m stuck with taking xanax for the rest of my life….Anybody else expierence simaler symptoms?? We should sue these damn companies for this garbage.

  I don’t know about this either…I have had fewer side-effects on Zoloft than I’ve had on any other med but aspirin and ibuprofen (no kidding)…Antibiotics give me flu-like symptoms, antihistimines knock me on my ass and cause dizziness…The list goes on…I have had almost NIL side-effects on Zoloft…Not only that, but like others have said, I was drained and sick WELL before I took Zoloft…If I still am when I get off, I can only assume I still need it, not that it caused it…   Finally, all the research I have read recently is starting to suggest just the opposite of what you say…That depression and anxiety (specifically cortisol and other hormones that are overstimulated in depressed and anxious folks) CAUSES brain damage…Long time depressives have smaller brains in some places  (I cannot remember the specific region at 12:20 PM! ) that control emotions…This seems to be reversible, but that is inconclusive…Also, research shows that taking medications and getting therapy immediately is the best way to prevent this effect and reduce or eliminate further epsiodes… Best, — Charles Phipps

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I’d be interested in whatever you find out about zoloft. I have been on it since March 99. Only 50mg. Haven’t seen a lot of improvement, but I thought it was to treat depression. I went to the Pdoc complaining of anxiety,panic and lack of sleep. Although, he did give me xanax as well for that. You may be right in your claim about zoloft, but I have not heard this before about the medicine.

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Hi, New Jersey! Haven’t  I seen you before down on the boardwalk in Atlantic City , and over there at the Trump Plaza? You look familiar.  : ) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -New Jersey writes: I’m trying to get to the bottom of this. I am posting this because of this problem and research I am doing on Zoloft… I have also found another person that has te same exact problems that I have because of this anti-depressant.. First of all , I think it causes permanent brain damage.. I also think that a person who starts out on zoloft will need some sort of anti-depressant for the rest of their life because of the damage it does.. Well, I’ll just try to be short here because I dont know how many of you will have the same problem.. When I was 18, I took zoloft.. I felt very weird in the beggining. Like a draining , kind of brain meltdown feeling… And ever since then (6 years without zoloft) I have had a constant numbing feeling on the left side of my head… It makes me feel more prone to stress/anxiety/panic.. Since then I have also developed a social phobia , psoriasis , and psoriatic arthritis…. Even though I was a little depressed when I was 18, I never knew that this crazyness was going to happen.. It made my condition much worse.. Now i’m stuck with taking xanax for the rest of my life….Anybody else expierence simaler symptoms?? We should sue these damn companies for this garbage.

NJ, I’ve been on Zoloft for the last 6 years, and so far, no brain damage, just less depression and anxiety. And I’ve been very pleased with this med. And I have never even heard that it causes brain damage. And untill someone shows me proof, I won’t believe it. Just because you met someone that claims his problems are due to brain damage caused by Zoloft doesn’t mean it’s true. It sounds like you were depressed enough at 18 to be treated with Zoloft. I don’t know how long you took it. It seems you now have anxieties, phobias, numbness on your face.  All of these are part of an anxiety disorder. Some, like you,  get depressed first, and later on get the anxiety symptoms. Others have the anxiety symptoms first and may get depressed later on. I had depression in my late teens, and onset of panic disorder  and phobias at age 22. And I had alot of strange feelings all over my body and thought I had disease. But I didn’t. It sounds like you have the same problems we  have here at ASAP. And they’re not due to brain damage from meds. So, are you ever going to go back down to Atlantic City, again?  : ) Take care, Chip

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    ***I’m trying to get to the bottom of this *** I am posting this because of this problem and research I am doing on Zoloft… I have also found another person that has te same exact problems that I have because of this anti-depressant.. First of all , I think it causes permanent brain damage.. I also think that a person who starts out on zoloft will need some sort of anti-depressant for the rest of their life because of the damage it does.. Well, I’ll just try to be short here because I dont know how many of you will have the same problem..   When I was 18, I took zoloft.. I felt very weird in the beggining. Like a draining , kind of brain meltdown feeling… And ever since then (6 years without zoloft) I have had a constant numbing feeling on the left side of my head… It makes me feel more prone to stress/anxiety/panic.. Since then I have also developed a social phobia , psoriasis , and psoriatic arthritis….  Even though I was a little depressed when I was 18, I never knew that this crazyness was going to happen.. It made my condition much worse.. Now i’m stuck with taking xanax for the rest of my life….Anybody else expierence simaler symptoms?? We should sue these damn companies for this garbage.

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Question:

Hi All, I think I remember seeing this discussed before, but I don’t remember what was said, so please forgive the re-hashing. How are those who are using Zoloft taking it?  IOW, are you taking 1 per day, or more frequently?  And what doseages? Thanks! Cathy

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Hi Cathy, I take 25 mgs as soon as I remember to after I wake up. Charla – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, I think I remember seeing this discussed before, but I don’t remember what was said, so please forgive the re-hashing. How are those who are using Zoloft taking it?  IOW, are you taking 1 per day, or more frequently?  And what doseages? Thanks! Cathy

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Catherine, I take 150 mgs of Zoloft once a day. It is only supposed to be taken once per day according to all the info I could find. And I’ve done a lot of checking lately. (I accidently overdosed last week…kind of neat but I wouldn’t recommend it) I’ve been on Zoloft for almost 2 years. And for the longest time I was doing great. Right now I’ve either pooped out on the Zoloft or I’m having some hellacious problems cause it isn’t helping me any longer but it is still a good med for some. Good luck. Mary — Today is a gift, that’s why we call it the present.

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It’s common knowledge that "MaryK" said: Catherine, I take 150 mgs of Zoloft once a day.

Wow…that’s significantly more than the 25mg I’m taking, but then again I only started recently. It is only supposed to be taken once per day according to all the info I could find. And I’ve done a lot of checking lately.

Ok.  Thanks! (I accidently overdosed last week…kind of neat but I wouldn’t recommend it) I’ve been on Zoloft for almost 2 years. And for the longest time I was doing great. Right now I’ve either pooped out on the Zoloft or I’m having some hellacious problems cause it isn’t helping me any longer but it is still a good med for some. Good luck.

Oh!  I’m so sorry, Mary, that you are having such problems!  Have you talked to your Dr. yet?  Maybe he’ll let you try something else, or maybe increase the Zoloft?  I wonder what maximum Zoloft dose is allowed. ((the other)) Cathy

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Thanks, Charla. Cathy It’s common knowledge that "charla" said: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hi Cathy, I take 25 mgs as soon as I remember to after I wake up. Charla

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Mary, I think Zoloft may still be a good med for you also!! I’ve been on Zoloft 150 mg/day for 6 years. When I experienced "poop out", instead of switching meds my psychiatrist added Cylert with good results for about 1 year. After that combo pooped out, he discontinued the Cylert and added desipramine 50 mg/day, which I am still on (in addition to Zoloft 150 mg/day). The process of adding a med to Zoloft (or any antidepressant) to make it start working again, or better, is called "augmentation". Too many docs just take you off a med that has been working previously and start you on another, and another, and another etc. Untill they find one that works. I do not know what symptoms you are experiencing when you say "poop out". What I experienced was the onset of depression. And I had good results by staying on Zoloft, but augmenting it with small doses of other meds. Chip Catherine, I take 150 mgs of Zoloft once a day. It is only supposed to be taken once per day according to all the info I could find. And I’ve done a lot of checking lately. (I accidently overdosed last week…kind of neat but I wouldn’t recommend it) I’ve been on Zoloft for almost 2 years. And for the longest time I was doing great. Right now I’ve either pooped out on the Zoloft or I’m having some hellacious problems cause it isn’t helping me any longer but it is still a good med for some. Good luck. Mary — Today is a gift, that’s why we call it the present.

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50mgs/day for 5 years (Zoloft) for me Kerrie

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50mgs/day for 5 years (Zoloft) for me Kerrie

I take 200 mgs of Zoloft once in the a.m.  Been doing this for 8 months with good results.  Not spectacular, but *good*, and that’s good enough right now. My Pdoc says 200 mgs is the "max," although he admits to having some clients on 250. Melissa

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Hey guys…  :) I posted here awhile back, and I just got back from my dr’s apointment and he put me on ZOLOFT 50mg…for generalized anxiety disorder… I was wondering what you all think of this drug? Has it helped anyone? Any side affects? I am very optimistc….Any feedback would be appreciated! Thanks alot… ~Desi

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Hey guys…  :) I posted here awhile back, and I just got back from my dr’s apointment and he put me on ZOLOFT 50mg…for generalized anxiety disorder… I was wondering what you all think of this drug? Has it helped anyone? Any side affects? I am very optimistc….Any feedback would be appreciated! Thanks alot…

Desi, if you search Deja news for references to Zoloft you will see a lot of discusion on it. Personally, I wouldn’t read it, however. If you are optimistic the best thing, IMO, is just to take it, follow your doctor’s instructions and see how you get on. We anxiety types can be very suggestible and it might be better not to predispose yourself to problems through other people’s opinions and experiences. Good luck! — Gary Cooper

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: Hey guys… : :  :) I posted here awhile back, and I just got back from my dr’s apointment and : he put me on ZOLOFT 50mg…for generalized anxiety disorder… I was wondering : what you all think of this drug? Has it helped anyone? Any side affects? I am : very optimistc….Any feedback would be appreciated! Thanks alot… Hi again Desi, Some folks do very well on Zoloft, while others don’t. It’s really very difficult to predict how any individual will respond to any specific medication for these disorders. As Gary commented, best just to try it and see how it goes. Keep in touch.                                         Best Wishes,                                         Arthur

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Hey guys…  :) I posted here awhile back, and I just got back from my dr’s apointment and he put me on ZOLOFT 50mg…for generalized anxiety disorder… I was wondering what you all think of this drug? Has it helped anyone? Any side affects? I am very optimistc….Any feedback would be appreciated! Thanks alot… Desi, if you search Deja news for references to Zoloft you will see a lot of discusion on it.

Hi there… I’m new. I’ve been on Zoloft for 2 months. 100 mgs. Its just kicked in and has helped me emensly! The only side effect i had was this thing with my tongue…it felt weird. You’ll like the drug. Its got me to a level that I know I dont have to worry. It took awhile to kick in… dak

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Question:

The following link is with a collection of links about poisonous plants: http://www.ScienceOxygen.com/botany95.html It does not provide any answer directly. But you might start from there to check the associated information.

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Hi All, I have been paging through the various seed catalogs and have seen a wide variety of flowers I’d love to grow.  I have been disappointed in many cases when I saw that Thompson & Morgan listed them as "poisonous".

Don’t be disappointed, it’s a fact that many plants are poisonous, and T&M are simply helping remind the reader of the fact. Two or three seeds of Ricinus can kill a child if eaten, and Aconitum plant fluids are very deadly, as may be the seeds as well. On the other hand, it would take eating a lot of Datura to kill anybody. Most of the buttercup family are fairly poisonous (Aconites, Ranunculus, Trollius, etc.). There are so many plants that are poisonous, though fewer are quickly fatal at small dosages, that it is not really feasible to eliminate them from one’s garden. I would avoid planting Castor beans and Aconites around children’s playgrounds, though, especially, and perhaps some other plants. It is generally wise to teach all children never to put any plants in their mouths. When I was a kid I remember sucking on honeysuckles and stuff we called ’sourgrass’ and lots of other things, with no ill effects. But kids may experiment beyond what local lore has as ‘edible’. Sucking the juice out of the friendly looking Lily of the Valley can be deadly.

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I have been paging through the various seed catalogs and have seen a wide variety of flowers I’d love to grow.  I have been disappointed in many cases when I saw that Thompson & Morgan listed them as "poisonous". This is the case for datura, sweet peas, four o’ clocks, many varieties of nicotiana and others.  Other catalogs (Burpees, Select Seeds, WFF) do not give a similar warning for many of the flowers.  I’m not a toxicologist and have no way of knowing how "poisonous" these plants are. Can anyone shed some light on this subject?

Steve, When a plant is labeled as poisonous, the level of toxicity may not be known.  The range could be anything from deadly to just causing a mild rash. The toxicity of the plant should be considered in two major areas. The first deals with children and animals.  If you have children, they may come in contact, or even ingest, the plants in your garden.  The same is true for pets or farm animals.  The presence of poisonous plants needs to be considered. The second area of concern deals with the gardener’s safety.  Direct contact with the plants may cause negative effects.  Taking precautions like long sleeves and gloves may be all it takes.  The warning of being poisonous in the catalog may be just a flag for you to be careful. If toxicity is a concern before you buy, check out exactly what level of poisoning your dealing with on the plants and flowers you are considering.   For a general guide to toxicity of plants, check out "Take Care With Plants" at –          http://www.ucdmc.ucdavis.edu/poison_control/plants.html This is part of the internet edition The Poison Center Answer Book prepared by the University of California, Davis, Medical Center (UCDMC) Regional Poison Control Center. Hope this helps.  Good luck with your garden. Marc

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Hi All, I have been paging through the various seed catalogs and have seen a wide variety of flowers I’d love to grow.  I have been disappointed in many cases when I saw that Thompson & Morgan listed them as "poisonous". This is the case for datura, sweet peas, four o’ clocks, many varieties of nicotiana and others.  Other catalogs (Burpees, Select Seeds, WFF) do not give a similar warning for many of the flowers.  I’m not a toxicologist and have no way of knowing how "poisonous" these plants are. Can anyone shed some light on this subject? Steve Cook Macungie, PA USDA

Many of the plants referred to as ‘poisonous’ are not very toxic. Some, like holly or mistletoe, will cause a mild stomach ache or the like.  Those plants that are very toxic should be considered carefully.  It is confusing when many varieties of plants are categorized as being toxic or poisonous when most of them aren’t really poisonous enough to be of any consequence.  If you have any doubt, ask a nurseryman in your area for advice.  For reference some common plants which are highly toxic are as follows:         Dieffenbachia         Oleander         Rhubarb (green parts of leaves)         Digitalis (foxgloves)         some cacti         most Solanum sp.         Datura (angel’s trumpets)         You should also consider that many plants with milky sap are also very toxic, as are the pits of many fruits (cyanide).  Even the rinds of some fruits like passion fruit have been found to be toxic enough for consideration.  Likewise, some plants often listed as poisonous, but not much so are as follows:         Philodendron         Grasses         Ficus

Response:

Hi All, I have been paging through the various seed catalogs and have seen a wide variety of flowers I’d love to grow.  I have been disappointed in many cases when I saw that Thompson & Morgan listed them as "poisonous". This is the case for datura, sweet peas, four o’ clocks, many varieties of nicotiana and others.  Other catalogs (Burpees, Select Seeds, WFF) do not give a similar warning for many of the flowers.  I’m not a toxicologist and have no way of knowing how "poisonous" these plants are. Can anyone shed some light on this subject?

Hi Steve, The warning of poisonous in your T&M catalogue is merely a courtesy, most catalogues don’t bother. Datura is a hallucinogenic (sp?), nicotanias contain nicotine and so on. (Although I’m curious about the sweet peas, I’ve never heard there was a problem with them) Don’t let the warning deter you from planting these plants. Most garden plants are only poisonous if they are eaten, not by handling. Even edible plants can be poisonous if not used correctly, for example, more that one tablespoon of fresh rosemary leaves can cause a toxic reaction in an adult human and rhubard *leaves* (not stalks) can cause internal bleeding, severe stomach cramps and poisoning. Some plants can kill, some can make you very sick, while others are perfectly safe. The only time you need to truly worry about this is when very young children will be in and around plantings. Children are very likely to put leaves and flowers into their mouths. Small children should never be left unattended in a garden where the possibility of poison exist. (Actually the period in that last sentence should probably fall after the word ‘garden’.) There are several books that refer to the toxicity of plants, unfortunately I don’t have any references for you, perhaps someone else will. The rule for anyone though is: never, *never*, NEVER eat from a plant, in the garden or the wild, unless you know exactly what it is and whether it is safe. But Steve, don’t let the poisonous label deter you from planting the flowers in your garden unless you have the above-mentioned small children. If you do, check out the edible flower thread that is currently going on. You can get some suggestions for ’safe’ plants there. Hope this helps Marianne — As soon as I have something important to say, I’ll put it here.

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I have been paging through the various seed catalogs and have seen a wide variety of flowers I’d love to grow.  I have been disappointed in many cases when I saw that Thompson & Morgan listed them as "poisonous". This is the case for datura, sweet peas, four o’ clocks, many varieties of nicotiana and others.  Other catalogs (Burpees, Select Seeds, WFF) do not give a similar warning for many of the flowers.  I’m not a toxicologist and have no way of knowing how "poisonous" these plants are. Can anyone shed some light on this subject?

The real question is whether it matters to you that the plants are poisonous. I guess the seed companies are just trying to protect themselves from dorks who try to sue them ("I added those Sweet Pea seeds to soup and they poisoned me – it’s your fault!"). There are few if any species which will harm you unless you actually eat the seeds or plant, and unless the plant actually looks attractive to eat, this is most unlikely (with the attractive berries of Deadly Nightshade – Atropa belladonna being an exception). So long as *you* aren’t going to eat the plant, and you are satisfied that young children won’t, then there’s little to worry about. I guess I didn’t answer your question of *how* poisonous they are! In the case of the deadly nightshade – very! I’d guess the Sweet Pea seeds are like many other dried pulses (peas/beans) that you can buy to eat – not good for you unless soaked and boiled. Nicotiana – they make cigarettes out of it. Datura – well discussed in recent threads, but a very attractive plant. I don’t know about Four o’clock – Mirabilis jalapa, except that I’ve seen the ‘poisonous’ notices on it too. — Clarke Brunt (CCB), Principal Software Engineer, Laser-Scan Ltd, Science Park, Milton Rd, CAMBRIDGE, CB4 4FY, England. Tel: (+44) (0)1223 420414; Fax: 420044

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Hi All, I have been paging through the various seed catalogs and have seen a wide variety of flowers I’d love to grow.  I have been disappointed in many cases when I saw that Thompson & Morgan listed them as "poisonous". This is the case for datura, sweet peas, four o’ clocks, many varieties of nicotiana and others.  Other catalogs (Burpees, Select Seeds, WFF) do not give a similar warning for many of the flowers.  I’m not a toxicologist and have no way of knowing how "poisonous" these plants are. Can anyone shed some light on this subject? Steve Cook Macungie, PA USDA Z6 — * Air Products and Chemicals, Inc.          Tel. (610) 481-2135     * * 7201 Hamilton Blvd.                       FAX  (610) 481-8803     * * Allentown, PA 18195                                               * * USA                                                               * *             Emacs – the choice of a GNU generation                * * Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are those of the author.  * *             Any resemblance between my opinions and those of Air  * *             Products is purely coincidental…                    *

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