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I had told the nurse I wanted to do the CT scan today and she said she would schedule it and call with a time.  I let the time get away from me and before I knew it, it was after 5pm.  I guess I will call this morning and see what is up. I have a question for anyone who may know.  I have been taking Bidex, Singulair and Histussin HC for the past week for my breathing and chest congestion.  Do any of these cause a depressing or down-feeling effect?  I have felt like crying a lot the last couple of days.  Of course, when I have felt bad for too long I feel that way also.  I was just wondering if any of these meds could have that side-effect? Vicki — The charter is available at:

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Many thanks for the info!  Will check that website right away!

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Does anyone know if this publisher runs early or late on publication dates and what sort of revisions were made?  I am torn between getting what is available now and waiting for the revised edition.

Publication date for books are about as reliable as release dates for computer software.  For both books and software I have taken the attitude: "I’ll believe it when I see it on the shelf."

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When I went to my local bookstore to buy The Asthma Sourcebook (right title?) which I have often seen highly praised in this group, I was told a revised edition is due out in November of 1998–about 4 months down the road.   Does anyone know if this publisher runs early or late on publication dates and what sort of revisions were made?  I am torn between getting what is available now and waiting for the revised edition.

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When I went to my local bookstore to buy The Asthma Sourcebook (right title?) which I have often seen highly praised in this group, I was told a revised edition is due out in November of 1998–about 4 months down the road. Does anyone know if this publisher runs early or late on publication dates and what sort of revisions were made?  I am torn between getting what is available now and waiting for the revised edition.

The author of ‘The Asthma Sourcebook’, Francis Adams, MD, has a web site. His email address is there. You could try emailing him with that question. Let us know what he says. http://home.earthlink.net/~francisva/news.html The Asthma Sourcebook News The existing book is copyright ‘96 and seems consistent with the ‘97 Expert Panel Report 2 in most respects. I doubt the updates would be substantial–lists of new drugs released like Pulmicort and Singulair. But you can pick up some of this info from his website. Cost of existing book is only $16 (less than a canister of Ventolin) and some stores discount, like amazon.com His web site has a link that takes you to amazon.com Ellis

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Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Use a D.O. with caution as they do not have the same training as an M.D Margrove, I’ve heard or read that D.O.’s do have the same basic training as M.D.s, and take the same courses as medical students get in medical school. D.O.s are licensed to practice medicine in the state of California. Have you heard about any bad experiences with D.O.s? What is a D.O.? Philip (foreigner)

Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine. Developed 130 years ago by physician A.T. Still, osteopathic medicine is emerging as one of the fastest growing healthcare professions in the U.S. Osteopathic medicine brings a unique philosophy to traditional medicine. With a strong emphasis on the inter-relationship of the body’s nerves, muscles, bones and organs, doctors of osteopathic medicine, or D.O.s, apply the philosophy of treating the whole person to the prevention, diagnosis and treatment of illness, disease and injury. http://www.osteopathic.org — The charter is available at:

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 you all should check out this web address, it is the journal of a schizophrenic…its amazing… http://www.h13.com <I finally am getting time to read some interesting posts and I find <the debate about to med or not to medicate an interesting one. A Shawneie forgery as about 2/3 of the posts today are. She is pissed off that her schemes were exposed and I refuse to allow her to use her sock puppets to hide behind so she is taking it out on everyone. Yes, she is having a very bad day.

LOL.. Poor pauly boy..

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I finally am getting time to read some interesting posts and I find the debate about to med or not to medicate an interesting one. When my dau. was diagnosed with severe TS almost 3 yrs. ago, we chose to medicate.  Her tics were so that she could not attend school.  She had a loud hiccup type tic every 3 sec. of every waking moment.  Her tics went on from there.  I saw a picture of her at Christmas time when she was about in third grade where I actually took a picture of her in the middle of one of her tics.  I didn’t realize it was TS then.  I did go to m.d. about it, but they said, bad habits. So went to full gambit.  Seroquel, Respiradol, Zyprexia, Clonidine, Tenex, Klonopin, Geodon and  antidepressants–Zoloft, Wellbutrin, and Prozac.  After all of that, my dau. is not presently on any medications.  By this summer, she had had it and we pulled her off her present medications of Prozac and Geodon.  As soon as we deleted Prozac, my old dau. emerged.  She was a ticcing old dau., but her old personality resurfaced.  It was like a miracle to us.  She traded dealing with ticcing rather than being spaced out, drugged out, crazed out by drugs that she had no control over her reactions to.  Three years later she is learning to live with her ticcing, learning to deal with the teasing she had received in middle school (she hardly attended school at all during her middle school years).  She has developed a harder crust.  She no longer self-mutilates, but still tics a great deal and I drive4 her crazy–such as breathing, sneezing, coughing, etc.  My noises and mannerisms sends her into tail spins. If I had known that Prozac was having the negative impact on her, I would have demanded she be taken off of it.  I think many of us parents are just so desperate to return our children to what we view as normalcy.  I never realized how this med was affecting her.  I just thought she was mentally decompensating more.  Especially with antidepressants, you have to watch out for weight gain and ones that could make you tic more, such as Zoloft and Wellbutrin.  It is so complicated and scarey to medicate to kids.  They are often unable to fully explain to the medicating docs how the medications are truly affecting them. The child often wants the medications to work so bad that they are initially willing to put up with anything that could help them deal with the tics. Then it is further complicated by the philosophical treatment of the neuros vs. the psychiatrists.  It is also dependent on if you have a doctor in any field that has any real experience with TS.  It is just very scarey out there for both the parent and the TS child.  I know first hand.  Been there and done that. I think it took me awhile to come to terms with my daughter’s diagnosis of TS.  I see so many parents making comments, that "my beautiful, gifted, child has TS."  They feel that somehow their child has been blighted.  I know I fell into that trap too.  It just takes awhile for us parents to accept the pronounced changes that happen when a child has TS.  Their ticcing driving you crazy; their not being able to attend school sometimes; their being upset when kids tease them; their being depressed because their lives will never be the ame–they just want to be "normal" like everyone else.  Let’s face it, in adolescents, especially, it is like a kiss of death to be thought of as different.  All of the peer pressure is staggering to a TS child. Would I do what I did if I had to do it over again, probably.  Because I must remember where we were at three years ago–so desperate, so unwilling to accept what was my daughter’s plight.  Were we misguided–perhaps.  We we desperate–yes.  We just had to try to do anything we could go help her, good or bad, only to come to full circle and take all of the medications away.  The ironies of life. Dawnee Dawnee

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Question:

I was on Serzone for only a week…If you have any suicidal thoughts it increases them dramatically….It scared me so I stopped taking it… Mandy

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The SSRI never worked for me. I have been on Prozac, Paxil, Zoloft, Effexor, Wellbutrin, Celexa, & more that i can’t even remember. I was not ablbe to tolerate those meds. I am on xanax, which help with the symtoms. But, I still suffer from panic attacks & agoraphobia.

none of those worked for me either. then my doc gave me anafranil and buspar and it worked like a charm. "I’ll let you be in my dream, if I can be in yours" cadre rock! http://cadre.iuma.com

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Geez I have now tried Tofranil, Elavil, St. John’s Wort, Prozac, Celexa, Valium, Effexor, Welbutrin, and four other medicines I can’t name.   At least three of them have given me terrible side effects at normal dosages (catatonia from 40 mg Prozac, convulsions from 200mg Welbutrin that had my wife in tears, and a horrible reaction to 225 mg.  Effexor.)    I have stopped drinking.  I still can hardly leave the house.  The SSRI’s give me a little relief at dosages I can handle, but not much. My pdoc has my trying Serzone now.  Has anyone had any experience with it?  I am trying to stay optimistic. — Mason Barge "People who like this sort of thing will find this the sort of thing they like."        – Abraham Lincoln

the trick with any antidepressant is starting at very low doses and slowly increasing them over time-you still have options of other medications that are available to you-not knowing the other 4 you tried and not knowing the side effects specific to what med and the dose you experienced them there is protriptyline, nortriptyline, desipramine, clomipramine, doxepin, sertraline, paroxetine, fluvoxamine, trimipramine, amoxapine, maprotaline, phenelzine, tranylcypromine. mitrazapine, within a few months Lexapro a refined version of celexa will hit the market and although I don’t advocate trying brand new meds-this is a safer version of citalopram using one isomer of the compound-Lilly is seeking approval of its cymbalta a multi targeting ad med like effexor, for release within a year-and the vaulted underused benzos and other meds may play a role  in  finding some relief-being on a med merry go round is no fun for sure, but sooner or later a med will be found that is tolerated and useful. I hope serzone works for you-it has some merit for agitated type depressions demonstrates a weaker activity then other classes of meds and less so then remeron which is in the same class, but again the idyosyncratic nature of our bodies and these drugs belies any anecdotal observations-it would not be my first choice, but that has little meaning if it works LM

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The SSRI never worked for me. I have been on Prozac, Paxil, Zoloft, Effexor, Wellbutrin, Celexa, & more that i can’t even remember. I was not ablbe to tolerate those meds. I am on xanax, which help with the symtoms. But, I still suffer from panic attacks & agoraphobia. Doc the Rocker

Hi Doc, (what’s up?) ) What is your total daily dose of Xanax? Chip (Bugs)

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Geez I have now tried Tofranil, Elavil, St. John’s Wort, Prozac, Celexa, Valium, Effexor, Welbutrin, and four other medicines I can’t name.   At least three of them have given me terrible side effects at normal dosages (catatonia from 40 mg Prozac, convulsions from 200mg Welbutrin that had my wife in tears, and a horrible reaction to 225 mg.  Effexor.)    I have stopped drinking.  I still can hardly leave the house.  The SSRI’s give me a little relief at dosages I can handle, but not much. My pdoc has my trying Serzone now.  Has anyone had any experience with it?  I am trying to stay optimistic. — Mason Barge "People who like this sort of thing will find this the sort of thing they like."         — Abraham Lincoln

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Geez I have now tried Tofranil, Elavil, St. John’s Wort, Prozac, Celexa, Valium, Effexor, Welbutrin, and four other medicines I can’t name.   At least three of them have given me terrible side effects at normal dosages (catatonia from 40 mg Prozac, convulsions from 200mg Welbutrin that had my wife in tears, and a horrible reaction to 225 mg.  Effexor.)    I have stopped drinking.  I still can hardly leave the house.  The SSRI’s give me a little relief at dosages I can handle, but not much. My pdoc has my trying Serzone now.  Has anyone had any experience with it?  I am trying to stay optimistic. — Mason Barge

Serzone can be effective for panic disorder and depression. What are all of your diagnoses? Looks like you haven’t been on any high potency benzodiazepines (Klonopin, Xanax, etc). Is your doc afraid to prescribe them? Chip

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Hi Mason, I am on 450mgs of Serzone. Have been on it for 1 year and 3 months. I have experienced a substantial reduction in my free-floating anxiety. I still use an occassional ativan for situational panic/phobia. Serzone is losing any favor it had due to liver problems that developed in a small percentage of its users. I get a liver function test routinely as a precaution, and it always comes back fine. Serzone does have sedating qualities. I am more sluggish than before, but I also feel more even…not so high…not so low. Weaning on the side effects were mild constipation and dry mouth. Sex and sleep have not been disturbed. I seem to be in the rare population that is benefitting from it. I hope you find something soon. Peace, John – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Geez I have now tried Tofranil, Elavil, St. John’s Wort, Prozac, Celexa, Valium, Effexor, Welbutrin, and four other medicines I can’t name.   At least three of them have given me terrible side effects at normal dosages (catatonia from 40 mg Prozac, convulsions from 200mg Welbutrin that had my wife in tears, and a horrible reaction to 225 mg.  Effexor.)    I have stopped drinking.  I still can hardly leave the house.  The SSRI’s give me a little relief at dosages I can handle, but not much. My pdoc has my trying Serzone now.  Has anyone had any experience with it?  I am trying to stay optimistic. — Mason Barge "People who like this sort of thing will find this the sort of thing they like."         — Abraham Lincoln

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My pdoc has my trying Serzone now.  Has anyone had any experience with it?  I am trying to stay optimistic.

that was the first med I tried. it didn’t do much for me really. but everyone is different, so it may work well for you. "I’ll let you be in my dream, if I can be in yours" cadre rock! http://cadre.iuma.com

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I seem to be in the rare population that is benefitting from it. I hope you find something soon. John

Hi John, Why do you say that a rare (or small?) population benefits from it? Chip

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Hi Chip, An armchair observation leads me to believe that many people are not successful on it and that is rarely prescribed, especially now with the liver problem thing. I think I indulged myself in a moment of self-pity. I’ve always tended to feel like the odd-man out. Even with meds. Hope your day is going well! Peace, John – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I seem to be in the rare population that is benefitting from it. I hope you find something soon. John Hi John, Why do you say that a rare (or small?) population benefits from it? Chip

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Hi Chip, An armchair observation leads me to believe that many people are not successful on it and that is rarely prescribed, especially now with the liver problem thing.

My impression is that it is effective for both panic disorder and depression. Although the trend seems to be to prescribe the SSRIs first. I can see why getting periodic liver function tests is a drawback. I used to take a med, Pemoline, for depression, and that med now requires serial liver tests. I think I indulged myself in a moment of self-pity. I’ve always tended to feel like the odd-man out. Even with meds.

((((John)))) Chip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hope your day is going well! Peace, John I seem to be in the rare population that is benefitting from it. I hope you find something soon. John Hi John, Why do you say that a rare (or small?) population benefits from it? Chip

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The SSRI never worked for me. I have been on Prozac, Paxil, Zoloft, Effexor, Wellbutrin, Celexa, & more that i can’t even remember. I was not ablbe to tolerate those meds. I am on xanax, which help with the symtoms. But, I still suffer from panic attacks & agoraphobia. Doc the Rocker

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Geez I have now tried Tofranil, Elavil, St. John’s Wort, Prozac, Celexa, Valium, Effexor, Welbutrin, and four other medicines I can’t name.   At least three of them have given me terrible side effects at normal dosages (catatonia from 40 mg Prozac, convulsions from 200mg Welbutrin that had my wife in tears, and a horrible reaction to 225 mg.  Effexor.)    I have stopped drinking.  I still can hardly leave the house.  The SSRI’s give me a little relief at dosages I can handle, but not much. My pdoc has my trying Serzone now.  Has anyone had any experience with it?  I am trying to stay optimistic. — Mason Barge "People who like this sort of thing will find this the sort of thing they like."         — Abraham Lincoln

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Question:

ok I know its not the best idea to increase meds without consent of your dr but when you don’t have one what is a person to do. When I first started taking the effex 37.5 I didn’t really notice much then came the increases..after the nasty nasty side effects I really started feeling better.(now on 150) had about 2 really great weeks then came the crash!! all I wanted 2 do was sleep..so up I went to 187.5. for the most the anxiety is good(unless I am that great!! I am doing ok in the sleep department now not like before when I was up for most of the night. Now I have to ask myself what I can do to get rid of this tiredness!!! when I get home from work I have to sleep for an hr I would sleep more but I ask 2 be waken. My job is office work so I am not physically tired but very mentally draining..its very fast paced and I where a 100 different hats. I am on a very strong vitamin and a natural supplement and drink my tea with ok with me cuz I have never been a day time eater. so I am not sure if I need to increase or am I on to high of a dose and this is where the tiredness comes in????? thoughts welcomed…..

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okay—question–are you taking regular effexor or effexor xr?  i ask because i could not tolerate the extended release at higher dosages, it literally made me fall asleep in the middle of the afternoon when i took the meds the night before.  however, once i went to regular effexor, so i could split the dosage i was able to tolerate a higher dose. of course, if you are self medicating–or not under someone’s care–it would be tough to switch the meds connemara —    Providing a VOICE to survivors of abuse     Educating the community about abuse        And supporting those who need it!                  The Comforter Network            http://www.comforternetwork.org/ Remove spam from email for response.

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Make sure you are eating before you take the medicine. Hold at a dosage for a while before you change. "If this is coffee, please bring me some tea.  If this is tea, please bring me some coffee."                                                            - Abraham Lincoln

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I am taking XR….. i changed to the XR cuz the regular stuff made me want to yack all the time. But the XR stuff did every time i increased. But after a while that went away. BTW i took the plunge last night and increased the dose to 225mg XR. I still woke a little foggy this morning and the yack is back but i am sure that will disapear. For the tiredness yes its still here but not as bad but my "crash time is usually later in the afternoon. But i am the same when i crash i do big time… i could even sleep on the floor when it hits me. lets hope this is the fix

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I’m also on Effexor xr.. my pharmacist told me to spread out when I take the individual capsules throughout the day and eve. In other words, experiment. As for your new dosage, it is still with the norm of prescribed levels. The only thing to watch is your blood pressure. If you are here in the US you can get it checked at a machine at a big drugstore. Remember that it is normal to have to increase dosage until your body reaches a saturation point where it no longer tries to "down regulate" (compensate) further.

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Wow when I had a family doc when I first started taking this med(effex xr) he advised me to take the pills all at the same time because they were time released. I am in Canada and in a small town…..they are just getting the b-pressure machines..I am interested in this saturation point? I don’t really understand it but what’s interesting is that when I first started taking this med (after 2 weeks) I felt great….then it slowly went away like I gained a quick tolerance to it…I know that this med takes a couple of weeks before you feel it but after increasing it for the second day I do feel better…I know I gain tolerances to other meds cuz this has happen before(analgesics) I am not sure were I saw this but I am sure it was here…..someone was saying that they had a low folic acid and it contribute to tiredness?? I also know this is more comment in women then men…but before getting treatment for the depression about a yr ago my foot fell numb and was tested for diabetes(runs in the family) but I was fine whoever they found that I had a very low level of folic acid… could low levels of folic acid be caused from using to much Tylenol with codeine?? again thx for the help people… feeling better today

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m also on Effexor xr.. my pharmacist told me to spread out when I take the individual capsules throughout the day and eve. In other words, experiment. As for your new dosage, it is still with the norm of prescribed levels. The only thing to watch is your blood pressure. If you are here in the US you can get it checked at a machine at a big drugstore. Remember that it is normal to have to increase dosage until your body reaches a saturation point where it no longer tries to "down regulate" (compensate) further.

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Sorry, I can’t answer about the folic acid. Perhaps someone else can. My understanding about folic acid needs as regards women is that a developing fetus needs it develop properly. Not so much that women per se need it more than men do. Coincidently, I too have numbness radiating from the area between my first and second toes on both feet and its cause remains a mystery after many tests by neurologists, rheumatologists, etc. Anyone else? I’ve been on a number of different ADs over several years, but all specialists seem to discount them as a cause.

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You might want to see a podiatrist about the foot.  I had the same thing and when the doctor did the surgery on the bunion, he also removed the nerve that was inflamed and causing the numbness.   Linda – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Sorry, I can’t answer about the folic acid. Perhaps someone else can. My understanding about folic acid needs as regards women is that a developing fetus needs it develop properly. Not so much that women per se need it more than men do. Coincidently, I too have numbness radiating from the area between my first and second toes on both feet and its cause remains a mystery after many tests by neurologists, rheumatologists, etc. Anyone else? I’ve been on a number of different ADs over several years, but all specialists seem to discount them as a cause.

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That’s interesting that I keep hearing that people are extremely tired on Effexor XR. I get up around 6:30am and take 150mg at around 9am with a little bit of food (which I force myself to eat most of the time) and I am completely and totally awake (and motivated!) all day long and can sleep very well at night. If you go to the official Effexor XR website (www.effexorxr.com) you will see that the XR capsules should only be taken ONCE a day with a meal. If you are having trouble sleeping at night, then you will definitely want to try it out and switch to taking them in the mornings and just once, like myself. The ONLY side effect I have noticed on 150mg is that I often grind my teeth at night and feel tense in my jaw during the day. I have experience weight loss also. Other than that, I have felt almost 100% better since taking Effexor XR. – Stephanie

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Thx Stephanie 4 the feedback… I would start taken it in the morning but the dr told me take it after your largest meal and for me that’s around 6pm(the first time I eat during the day) I am doing OK in the sleep department now…I did go through the no sleep thing to.. Do people think that changing the med time will change the wanting sleep time?? thx again

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That’s interesting that I keep hearing that people are extremely tired on Effexor XR. I get up around 6:30am and take 150mg at around 9am with a little bit of food (which I force myself to eat most of the time) and I am completely and totally awake (and motivated!) all day long and can sleep very well at night. If you go to the official Effexor XR website (www.effexorxr.com) you will see that the XR capsules should only be taken ONCE a day with a meal. If you are having trouble sleeping at night, then you will definitely want to try it out and switch to taking them in the mornings and just once, like myself. The ONLY side effect I have noticed on 150mg is that I often grind my teeth at night and feel tense in my jaw during the day. I have experience weight loss also. Other than that, I have felt almost 100% better since taking Effexor XR. – Stephanie

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I take my Effexor XR with breakfast, which seems to work the best. "If this is coffee, please bring me some tea.  If this is tea, please bring me some coffee."                                                            - Abraham Lincoln

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Question:

I can use a pick fairly well but I get more feeling by using my thumb and fingers. Would using the pick be that more useful?

I prefer using a pick for strumming chords and lead lines, but using the thumb and fingers for many chord arpeggios and other patterns requiring a lot of string skipping. Lucas B.

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I can use a pick fairly well but I get more feeling by using my thumb and fingers. Would using the pick be that more useful?

I use both, sometimes concurrently.  No reason to limit yourself; they are both useful depending on context. -pk

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you should use your fingers and your pick for different things the sound it’s note the same! use whatever suits best! strangest picking i’ve ever seen. a guy holdind a pick with the thumb and the index (not strange) to play what the thumb would normaly play. the other fingers would play the first three stings!

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I find that i play better with my fingers, but i like the sound of the pick much better.

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Use a thumb pick! Dunlop has all kinds…you can grab it like a regular pick if you must or let go of it and user your fingers. This sounds strange but I really like it.  It takes a while to get use to but after a while if feels strange wasting all your energy pinching a pick between your index and thumb…uuuugggggg!!! http://www.mp3.com/skyfishermen Scott Reinson I can use a pick fairly well but I get more feeling by using my thumb and fingers. Would using the pick be that more useful?

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I can use a pick fairly well but I get more feeling by using my thumb and fingers. Would using the pick be that more useful? I prefer using a pick for strumming chords and lead lines, but using the thumb and fingers for many chord arpeggios and other patterns requiring a lot of string skipping.

Agreed. I fingerpick on acoustic almost exclusively, and I only use a pick on electric (but that’s mainly because I have Benign Essential Tremor and it would be way too sloppy if I fingerpicked on the electric). But a pick makes for much better soloing (aside from bluegrass and stuff like that). And you can’t solo as fast fingerstyle. Sven

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I can use a pick fairly well but I get more feeling by using my thumb and fingers. Would using the pick be that more useful?

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Question:

Studies show that people talking on car phones are every bit as dangerous as drunk drivers. What if they are drunk and on an AD?

Interesting one, that: I’d have thought that any AD that in particular increases noradrenaline activity would tend to sharpen the senses, and this sometimes seems to cancel out (hmm, not happy with that terminology but it’s been a long day, including having a fight with a train [I won, though am somewhat bruised] so it’ll have to do) some of the alcoholic effects. Chris.

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Studies show that people talking on car phones are every bit as dangerous as drunk drivers. What if they are drunk and on an AD? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ANTI-DEPRESSANT ‘DRIVING HAZARD’ [BBC] Prescribed drugs can impair driving ability more than alcohol, say researchers. In a month-long project, researchers at Surrey University assessed the road handling skills of 16 volunteers who had been given some of the most commonly prescribed anti-depressants. Given the usual standard of driving around here I think that’s the least of their worries.  If I had a choice between getting in a car being driven by a competent driver on antidepressants thought to impair response times or being driven by someone too lazy to even steer their car on the correct side of the road or bother with "give way" signs and so on, I know which my choice would be… Some of the scariest driving I’ve ever witnessed is in the car park of the local supermarket.  I’ve no idea what proportion of drivers are on ADs or not, but in many cases some form of antipsychotic may be useful… and the antics of those responsible for the school run at the local primary defies belief.  Unless they’re trying to kill their own kids, that is. Chris.

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-snip- Jon_WebMD Online Community Moderator

I haven’t posted this in a long long time…. Sincerely Stewart The following "canned response" is simply my personal opinion and expression.  It is not posted as any sort of representation of what others here think.  Some here agree with me on one or more points, while many others disagree with me…….    You have posted a message to the usenet newsgroup alt.support.depression (ASD).  If you are new to this newsgroup, then "Welcome to the group that nobody (in their right mind) wants to join". In the spirit of "real life" support groups, this is often a small and intimate place on the Internet where people can gather together to share their personal experiences.  It is a place that many of us wish we did not feel compelled to frequent, but for which we are often quiet grateful. Everyone is welcome to read what others have written (to lurk as it is called).  Please post responses to others if you think you have something to say that might help them or yourself.  And, of course, we would love to hear a question, comment, rant, or story of your own.    This newsgroup is a completely open forum that is not "moderated" or "staffed" by anyone.  This means that you, me, and the person we BOTH hate, can post whatever they want here.  Although "professionals" of all sorts frequent this group, the opinions expressed here are made by people, not by God, so you might want to consider a second opinion.  Because this group is made up of real people, with all sorts of different opinions, it is often somewhat "volatile".  But you will also find a lot of caring people here that are seriously trying to get a grip on their depression. There are also a lot of people here that want to share their experiences with others.  Personally, it took me several years to realize that the deaths of my father and brother had sent me into a tailspin of depression.  I am happy to say that antidepressant medication and psychotherapy are helping.  I hope you find something here among the throng that helps you.    If you feel compelled to make a request of the group that goes beyond something that would be of benefit to you emotionally, then please reconsider your post.  If you want to request that readers of ASD help you with a project that is only vaguely or indirectly related to your own personal journey, please reconsider your request.  Most of us are working hard to keep our heads above water, or we are trying to help others swim to shore.  We could sure use your help right here.  If you think the people who read this group would benefit from what you know, then please consider providing that information here.  If you feel that you must advertise the experience or information that you posses because it cannot be provided here, then please consider whether or not this is really an appropriate place to advertise.  While this is certainly an appropriate place for ANY information related to depression, please remember that there are LOTS of people out there with equally worthy projects.  If they all post here, then this will soon be a place full of pointers to a lot of worthwhile information, but it will cease to be a place of much support. Often a good way to advertise is to respond to a personal post, and place your advertisement in your signature file.    I have sent this reply to you personally.  I have also posted it to the group so that anyone can read it if they want to.  Please keep an eye out for the depression/ASD FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions), the User Guide to ASD, and the ASD Flame Retardant, which are all posted from time to time on this newsgroup.  You can also find these and other important tidbits of information about this newsgroup at the world wide web site http://www.lava.net/~dewilson/asd/resources.html Good luck Sincerely Stewart PS.  Remember that I am just another idiot with my own stupid personal opinions.  Other idiots here have their own stupid personal opinions. — The Metaphor Man  *and*  The Great Defender of the Self (remove the SPAMBLOCK) Please send me an e-mail copy of your posted response.

Response:

ANTI-DEPRESSANT ‘DRIVING HAZARD’ [BBC] Prescribed drugs can impair driving ability more than alcohol, say researchers. In a month-long project, researchers at Surrey University assessed the road handling skills of 16 volunteers who had been given some of the most commonly prescribed anti-depressants.

Given the usual standard of driving around here I think that’s the least of their worries.  If I had a choice between getting in a car being driven by a competent driver on antidepressants thought to impair response times or being driven by someone too lazy to even steer their car on the correct side of the road or bother with "give way" signs and so on, I know which my choice would be… Some of the scariest driving I’ve ever witnessed is in the car park of the local supermarket.  I’ve no idea what proportion of drivers are on ADs or not, but in many cases some form of antipsychotic may be useful… and the antics of those responsible for the school run at the local primary defies belief.  Unless they’re trying to kill their own kids, that is. Chris.

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WebMD Community Services Depression Community Update for the week of June 21, 1999 http://my.webmd.com YOU ARE NOT ALONE! THERE ARE NOW MORE 15,000 PEOPLE SUBSCRIBED TO THE DEPRESSION DISCUSSION GROUP. THE BIG NEWS THIS WEEK IS THAT WE NOW HAVE A MESSAGE BOARD EXPERT TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTIONS ABOUT DEPRESSION!!! (see below for details) QUICK CHAT TIP: HAVING PROBLEMS? TRY ENTERING THE CHAT ROOMS WITH THE JAVA-LITE CLIENT. —  See http://my.webmd.com/calendar a complete         list of upcoming chats ** Upcoming Chat ** CHAT:           Functioning in the Workplace GUEST:          Beth Phoenix Kasten, R.N., Ph.D. of UCSF TIME:           3 p.m. Pacific (6 p.m. Eastern, 10 p.m. GMT) WHERE:          WebMD_Auditorium http://my.webmd.com/event/341508 WebMD is proud to welcome back Beth Phoenix Kasten, R.N., Ph.D. of UCSF on Tuesday, June 22 at 3 p.m. Pacific (6 p.m. Eastern, 10 p.m. GMT) when she discusses the topic, Functioning in the Workplace. As many of you know, Beth Phoenix Kasten, R.N., Ph.D. is an Associate Clinical Professor at UCSF School of Nursing. She has chatted with us before on a variety of depression issues, and is available to answer your questions and point the way towards useful resources. This special event will take place in the WebMD_Auditorium. * * * * * * * * * * * * * ** This Week in Chat ** Last week, we welcomed WebMD welcomed author Sam Vaknin, on Monday, June 14 when he discussed Narcissistic Personality Disorder moderator       Why did you decided to title the book                 "Malignant Self Love?" Speaker         Narcissism is an exaggeration, a malignancy of                 a healthy phenomenon. Self Love helps survivals —                 It is a prerequisite. But when overdone and when                 derived exclusively from the outside, it is                 malignant, it kills, emotionally. moderator       …What do you mean, "derived exclusively from the                 outside?" speaker         A Narcissist (notice the capital N) has no sense of                 self. If not reflected by others, he feels annulled,                 dead, void… It is a harrowing experience                 (I went through it once).                 It is like being separated to molecules and                 suspended in mid air. READ THE REST — http://my.webmd.com/member/522878 ALSO AVAILABLE FROM WEBMD: The Emotional Challenges of Long-Term Caregiving Transcript —  http://my.webmd.com/member/522684 * * * * * * * * * * * * * ** New in Medical News ** ANTI-DEPRESSANT ‘DRIVING HAZARD’ [BBC] Prescribed drugs can impair driving ability more than alcohol, say researchers. In a month-long project, researchers at Surrey University assessed the road handling skills of 16 volunteers who had been given some of the most commonly prescribed anti-depressants. READ — http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/health/newsid_374000/374290.stm COMMENT — http://my.webmd.com/roundtable_message/229754 REMARKS BY THE PRESIDENT, THE FIRST LADY, THE VICE PRESIDENT, AND MRS. GORE AT WHITE HOUSE CONFERENCE ON MENTAL HEALTH EXCERPT: MRS. GORE: Wow! Thank you so very much for that warm welcome. Good afternoon. We are all so very pleased to be hosting the first White House Conference on Mental Health. And I want to thank Michael Stevenson for producing the film that you just saw, with its extraordinary spirit showing the faces of mental illness. Thank you very much, Michael. READ — http://www.mentalhealth.gov/remarks.asp COMMENT — http://my.webmd.com/roundtable_message/229762 MENTAL HEALTH PARITY: ITS TIME HAS COME, ACCORDING TO APA American Psychological Association: No matter the form, discrimination is wrong. Yet, nearly 98% private health insurance plans discriminate against patients seeking treatment for mental illness by requiring higher copayments, allowing fewer doctor visits or days in the hospital, or higher deductibles than imposed on other medical illnesses. This discrimination results from outdated misconceptions and the stigma surrounding mental illnesses. If left to continue, the financial and human costs of untreated mental illness will far exceed the costs purported by opponents

Question:

 Well, I have stumbled into a setback the last few days…I am much more functional since I started the Zoloft, and when my time is occupied I do pretty dang well…However, the last couple of days, I have been alone with not much to occupy my time…This has been difficult…Not as bad as before but difficult…Today I cannot enjoy my usual Sunday morning lounge with paper in hand…Now I am begining to worry that I have peaked in the effect I will get from the Zoloft/Xanax combo…Could this be?  I am just about through with week 4 (2 weeks at 50, 2 at 100), will I see more improvement as the weeks go on…I got lots of improvement after 2 weeks, but haven’t seen any since…Need some good stuff today from you all!

Hi Charles, I can only speak from my experience with Paxil, the way I felt at week 4 was alright, the way I felt at  week 8 was good. I had a slow but steady improvement from the second week on Paxil which was the beginning of April, all the way through the summer, even though I didn`t increase my dose past the beginning of May. And I do remember having a off week around week 9 or 10, it had to do with a conflict I had with a family member. And I was so afraid I was having a setback or the med stopped working, which just added to my anxiety. Being alone use to  be a trigger for my anxiety, I think it was a lack of stimulation for me. I can tell you since being on Paxil, I LOVE being alone when I have the opportunity. My husband just had a business trip to Mexico, and normally I would be anxious, I enjoyed him being gone, this tells me I am really doing well( or maybe it is that he annoys the hell out of me <g ) You are having a rough week, but the Zoloft probably has not reached full effectiveness. You have to give it more time. I know this is easier said than done, but you need to occupy your mind. When I had a problem with boredom, what would happen is my thoughts turn inward, thinking about my anxiety and monitoring every sensation and twitch I was having. Even though you are having a bad time, from what you wrote I see improvement.  Sometimes getting better isn`t just measured in  having "good" days, but how we handle our bad days, and you say yourself, it is not as difficult as before. That tells me Zoloft is having a effect on you. Patience my dear friend, you will get there. *Hugs* P.S. And in a few weeks, if you feel you are`nt at the place you want to be, maybe increasing the Zoloft, you can go as high as 200mgs. Jackie "Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, The courage to change the things I cannot accept, And the wisdom to  hide the bodies of those I had to kill today because they ticked me  off and also, help me to be careful of the toes I step on today, as  they may be connected to the butt I may have to kiss tomorrow.

Response:

Hi Charles! I cannot help with the meds questions, but I did want you to know that I am sending positive thoughts your way1 I hope you feel better soon! Being alone is tough, I know but you will get through it! Hang in there! Steph

Charles Writes: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -To all:  Well, I have stumbled into a setback the last few days…I am much more functional since I started the Zoloft, and when my time is occupied I do pretty dang well…However, the last couple of days, I have been alone with not much to occupy my time…This has been difficult…Not as bad as before but difficult…Today I cannot enjoy my usual Sunday morning lounge with paper in hand…Now I am begining to worry that I have peaked in the effect I will get from the Zoloft/Xanax combo…Could this be?  I am just about through with week 4 (2 weeks at 50, 2 at 100), will I see more improvement as the weeks go on…I got lots of improvement after 2 weeks, but haven’t seen any since…Need some good stuff today from you all! Thanks, — Charles Phipps

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Question:

Does anyone have experience with combinations of any of the following meds:  Wellbutrin, Zoloft, Effexor, and Ritalin? Thanks, groucho

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Took them all, but I don’t think it was ever in combination with each other. Like most of the meds I have taken, they worked for a while then ZIPPO. It appears that the Paxil, Buspar, Neurontin Combo I am now on has gone ZIPPO on me. When you feel better without meds than you do on meds, "Somethin’ is screwie in St. Louie!!"          Ralph – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone have experience with combinations of any of the following meds:  Wellbutrin, Zoloft, Effexor, and Ritalin? Thanks, groucho

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What dose is the ritaalin for depression?

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