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Both to varying degrees. — CBI, M.D. Please note: It is impossible to accurately diagnose medical problems without seeing the patient and reviewing the entire history. These posts are intended to be helpful and informative. Always check with your doctor before following any advice given.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m curious about meds. Would Flovent and Serevent be prescribed for Emphysema or are they usually just dxed for asthma?

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I’m curious about meds. Would Flovent and Serevent be prescribed for Emphysema or are they usually just dxed for asthma?

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I too have mild, allergy and exercise induced asthma. I started Singulair over a year ago, and have hardly ever had to use any other medicine during that period. I am very happy this way. Erica Steve Freides heeft geschreven in bericht – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I changed a few medications at once a few months back, resulting in a huge improvement in my condition.  I was taking Serevent and Allegra and added Singulair and Flovent. (I didn’t add Flovent but switched from Serevent to Advair.) I know a significant number of people take Advair/Flovent but do not take Singulair.  I was wondering if many people take Singulair but not Advair/Flovent.  I’m considering trying a brief experiment of stopping Advair and seeing how I do.  My expectation is that I will miss Advair but I thought it would be interesting to give it a try. Background:  my asthma is mild and largely related to allergans and exercise, i.e., if I stay in my HEPA-filtered house and don’t exercise, I have no symptoms.  I have never been hospitalized for asthma or breathing difficulties of any kind.  I carry a Proventil inhaler for emergencies but have never needed it since I added Singulair and Advair to my routine.  I have discussed the matter with my physician who said, while he doesn’t think I should stop Advair, neither does he think it will hurt me. -S-

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The lowest strength of Flovent is 50ug/pf fluticasone, usually prescribed 2 pf twice/day. This could be tapered in half to 1 pf x2; or cut in 1/4 to 1 pf/day.

I have used this method for quite sometime and have had good success.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It makes more sense to just change one drug at a time, so you can see what it’s effect is, independent of the other drugs. It would make sense to go back to Serevent and add Flovent to equal your present dose of Advair. Then taper down the Flovent to the level to control your symptoms and keep peak flows in the Green Zone on your peak flow meter. My Advair is the lowest doseage of Flovent already, so there’s nothing there to taper. The lowest dose strength of Advair is 100ug/pf fluticasone,  usually prescribed twice/day. This could be tapered in half  to 1 pf/day. The lowest strength of Flovent is 50ug/pf fluticasone, usually prescribed 2 pf twice/day. This could be tapered in half to 1 pf x2; or cut in 1/4 to 1 pf/day.

Good points.  I could try my 100/50 Advair only in the mornings, but I like the idea of separating them and trying to lower the Serevent best. -S- – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ellis  I’m quite convinced that Singulair has helped me and that I may be able to get by without either Serevent or Flovent. Colin’s suggestion of separating Advair into its components then reducing the Serevent is certainly worth trying as well. I will do a bit of experimenting with what’s in-house here already and report back in a few weeks. -S- The general rule on steroid inhalers is to use the minimum dose to control the problem, especially at Moderate and High dose levels. As a more simplistic approach, you could just try reducing the puffs of Advair. [however this simultaneously reduces the salmeterol and fluticasone]. Note that Advair comes in 3 strengths; if you are not using the lowest strength version you could try switching to that. Note that Singulair only helps about 2/3 who try it; if it doesn’t help it should be dropped. In my case it helps my rhinitis more than the asthma. Ellis Background:  my asthma is mild and largely related to allergans and exercise, i.e., if I stay in my HEPA-filtered house and don’t exercise, I have no symptoms.  I have never been hospitalized for asthma or breathing difficulties of any kind.  I carry a Proventil inhaler for emergencies but have never needed it since I added Singulair and Advair to my routine.  I have discussed the matter with my physician who said, while he doesn’t think I should stop Advair, neither does he think it will hurt me. -S-

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It makes more sense to just change one drug at a time, so you can see what it’s effect is, independent of the other drugs. It would make sense to go back to Serevent and add Flovent to equal your present dose of Advair. Then taper down the Flovent to the level to control your symptoms and keep peak flows in the Green Zone on your peak flow meter. My Advair is the lowest doseage of Flovent already, so there’s nothing there to taper.

The lowest dose strength of Advair is 100ug/pf fluticasone,  usually prescribed twice/day. This could be tapered in half  to 1 pf/day. The lowest strength of Flovent is 50ug/pf fluticasone, usually prescribed 2 pf twice/day. This could be tapered in half to 1 pf x2; or cut in 1/4 to 1 pf/day. Ellis  I’m quite convinced that Singulair has helped me and – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – that I may be able to get by without either Serevent or Flovent. Colin’s suggestion of separating Advair into its components then reducing the Serevent is certainly worth trying as well. I will do a bit of experimenting with what’s in-house here already and report back in a few weeks. -S- The general rule on steroid inhalers is to use the minimum dose to control the problem, especially at Moderate and High dose levels. As a more simplistic approach, you could just try reducing the puffs of Advair. [however this simultaneously reduces the salmeterol and fluticasone]. Note that Advair comes in 3 strengths; if you are not using the lowest strength version you could try switching to that. Note that Singulair only helps about 2/3 who try it; if it doesn’t help it should be dropped. In my case it helps my rhinitis more than the asthma. Ellis Background:  my asthma is mild and largely related to allergans and exercise, i.e., if I stay in my HEPA-filtered house and don’t exercise, I have no symptoms.  I have never been hospitalized for asthma or breathing difficulties of any kind.  I carry a Proventil inhaler for emergencies but have never needed it since I added Singulair and Advair to my routine.  I have discussed the matter with my physician who said, while he doesn’t think I should stop Advair, neither does he think it will hurt me. -S-

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I changed a few medications at once a few months back, resulting in a huge improvement in my condition.  I was taking Serevent and Allegra and added Singulair and Flovent. (I didn’t add Flovent but switched from Serevent to Advair.) I know a significant number of people take Advair/Flovent but do not take Singulair.  I was wondering if many people take Singulair but not Advair/Flovent.  I’m considering trying a brief experiment of stopping Advair and seeing how I do.  My expectation is that I will miss Advair but I thought it would be interesting to give it a try. It makes more sense to just change one drug at a time, so you can see what it’s effect is, independent of the other drugs. It would make sense to go back to Serevent and add Flovent to equal your present dose of Advair. Then taper down the Flovent to the level to control your symptoms and keep peak flows in the Green Zone on your peak flow meter.

Thank you and thanks to everyone else who has responded thus far. My Advair is the lowest doseage of Flovent already, so there’s nothing there to taper.  I’m quite convinced that Singulair has helped me and that I may be able to get by without either Serevent or Flovent. Colin’s suggestion of separating Advair into its components then reducing the Serevent is certainly worth trying as well. I will do a bit of experimenting with what’s in-house here already and report back in a few weeks. -S- – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The general rule on steroid inhalers is to use the minimum dose to control the problem, especially at Moderate and High dose levels. As a more simplistic approach, you could just try reducing the puffs of Advair. [however this simultaneously reduces the salmeterol and fluticasone]. Note that Advair comes in 3 strengths; if you are not using the lowest strength version you could try switching to that. Note that Singulair only helps about 2/3 who try it; if it doesn’t help it should be dropped. In my case it helps my rhinitis more than the asthma. Ellis Background:  my asthma is mild and largely related to allergans and exercise, i.e., if I stay in my HEPA-filtered house and don’t exercise, I have no symptoms.  I have never been hospitalized for asthma or breathing difficulties of any kind.  I carry a Proventil inhaler for emergencies but have never needed it since I added Singulair and Advair to my routine.  I have discussed the matter with my physician who said, while he doesn’t think I should stop Advair, neither does he think it will hurt me. -S-

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It would make sense to go back to Serevent and add Flovent to equal your present dose of Advair. Then taper down the Flovent to the level to control your symptoms and keep peak flows in the Green Zone on your peak flow meter.

IMO, it would make more sense to taper the Serevent since Flovent prevents asthma symptoms and Serevent merely treats those symptoms. — "What Sept. 11 did was remind us that there are times when we must fight for our country, that, indeed, there are things – our liberty, our democracy, our belief in human rights and human dignity – worth fighting for." Newsday.com editorial – 27 May 2002

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I take Advair and singulair with humibid.  This combination works really well for me.  I use proventil hcf for emergencies.  My dr told me that singulair is not a replacement of the inhalers only helps most.  I would recommend you go back to what your dr has told you to take and give it time to see if it works.  If the inhaler isn’t than call your pulmonary and let them know.  I mostly have myself under control with my copd and asthma.  But it take time.  UM MOM Susan

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I changed a few medications at once a few months back, resulting in a huge improvement in my condition.  I was taking Serevent and Allegra and added Singulair and Flovent. (I didn’t add Flovent but switched from Serevent to Advair.) I know a significant number of people take Advair/Flovent but do not take Singulair.  I was wondering if many people take Singulair but not Advair/Flovent.  I’m considering trying a brief experiment of stopping Advair and seeing how I do.  My expectation is that I will miss Advair but I thought it would be interesting to give it a try. Background:  my asthma is mild and largely related to allergans and exercise, i.e., if I stay in my HEPA-filtered house and don’t exercise, I have no symptoms.  I have never been hospitalized for asthma or breathing difficulties of any kind.  I carry a Proventil inhaler for emergencies but have never needed it since I added Singulair and Advair to my routine.  I have discussed the matter with my physician who said, while he doesn’t think I should stop Advair, neither does he think it will hurt me. -S-

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I changed a few medications at once a few months back, resulting in a huge improvement in my condition.  I was taking Serevent and Allegra and added Singulair and Flovent. (I didn’t add Flovent but switched from Serevent to Advair.) I know a significant number of people take Advair/Flovent but do not take Singulair.  I was wondering if many people take Singulair but not Advair/Flovent.  I’m considering trying a brief experiment of stopping Advair and seeing how I do.  My expectation is that I will miss Advair but I thought it would be interesting to give it a try.

It makes more sense to just change one drug at a time, so you can see what it’s effect is, independent of the other drugs. It would make sense to go back to Serevent and add Flovent to equal your present dose of Advair. Then taper down the Flovent to the level to control your symptoms and keep peak flows in the Green Zone on your peak flow meter. The general rule on steroid inhalers is to use the minimum dose to control the problem, especially at Moderate and High dose levels. As a more simplistic approach, you could just try reducing the puffs of Advair. [however this simultaneously reduces the salmeterol and fluticasone]. Note that Advair comes in 3 strengths; if you are not using the lowest strength version you could try switching to that. Note that Singulair only helps about 2/3 who try it; if it doesn’t help it should be dropped. In my case it helps my rhinitis more than the asthma. Ellis – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Background:  my asthma is mild and largely related to allergans and exercise, i.e., if I stay in my HEPA-filtered house and don’t exercise, I have no symptoms.  I have never been hospitalized for asthma or breathing difficulties of any kind.  I carry a Proventil inhaler for emergencies but have never needed it since I added Singulair and Advair to my routine.  I have discussed the matter with my physician who said, while he doesn’t think I should stop Advair, neither does he think it will hurt me. -S-

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I changed a few medications at once a few months back, resulting in a huge improvement in my condition.  I was taking Serevent and Allegra and added Singulair and Flovent. (I didn’t add Flovent but switched from Serevent to Advair.) I know a significant number of people take Advair/Flovent but do not take Singulair.  I was wondering if many people take Singulair but not Advair/Flovent.  I’m considering trying a brief experiment of stopping Advair and seeing how I do.  My expectation is that I will miss Advair but I thought it would be interesting to give it a try. Background:  my asthma is mild and largely related to allergans and exercise, i.e., if I stay in my HEPA-filtered house and don’t exercise, I have no symptoms.  I have never been hospitalized for asthma or breathing difficulties of any kind.  I carry a Proventil inhaler for emergencies but have never needed it since I added Singulair and Advair to my routine.  I have discussed the matter with my physician who said, while he doesn’t think I should stop Advair, neither does he think it will hurt me. -S-

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I was wondering if many people take Singulair but not Advair/Flovent.  I’m considering trying a brief experiment of stopping Advair and seeing how I do.  My expectation is that I will miss Advair but I thought it would be interesting to give it a try.

Here is my situation: I have had allergic and exercise induced asthma for over 10 years. Even with Albuterol, Severant, or Flovent I could not run more than a mile before having to stop, weeze, and gasp for air.  It was frustrating since I was trying to get back to running as I had done 10 years before, but couldn’t.  My saving medicine was Singulair.  It began to work the first day and has been helping me ever since I started it 2 1/2 years ago.  I got back to running a few weeks after starting Singulair and haven’t stopped since.  I’m 54 and run 4 miles about 4 times per week. Hardly olympic pace, but pretty good for someone my age.  I use my inhaler (Albuterol) about twice a week just to have ‘clear runs’ — I think this is more psychological than physiological, frankly.  I rarely (once every other month?) use my inhaler for any other reason.  I take no other asthma medication. Singulair is worth trying.  Your mileage may vary.  The following statistics come up a lot, but I’m not sure of their accuracy.  Take them as rough values.  About 1/3 of the people trying it are helped a lot (the lucky 1/3 I appear to be in),  1/3 are helped some, 1/3 are not helped at all.  I have zero side effects.  Some people have complained about vivid dreaming in Singulair (I thought I might be experiencing this from time to time, but, if so, I like it — I’m really not sure though).  A few people in this group have complained of headaches or difficulty sleeping.  Maybe others can add to this. Generally, it is free of side effects and for the most part (I’ve only seen one exception in this NG group) it does not lose its effectiveness.   Background:  my asthma is mild and largely related to allergans and exercise, i.e., if I stay in my HEPA-filtered house and don’t exercise, I have no symptoms.  I have never been hospitalized for asthma or breathing difficulties of any kind.  

Same for me, in general. — Lou Pecora   – My views are my own.

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Anorexia is one of the more pronounced side effects of Prozac, and the manufacturer seriously was or is trying to get it indicated for weight control!! It was prescribed to me for depression when my family had major problems, but it just happened to be just what I needed for my migraines. That was like I said, maybe 16-18 years ago. I have no idea whether it’s STILL helping my migraines, but I’ve been to MHNI twice since then, and nobody’s ever questioned or reconsidered the Prozac…   But by now, for all I know, it might be useless for my migraines, but if I stop taking it, my personality gets kinda dark and sad, because I’m naturally serotonin deficient, so maybe yes, it’s working on SOMETHING? Same for the Elavil – I’ve been taking it since 1993. It helps with the serotonin situation, but it really helps me sleep, too, and I need that, because of my severe sleep apnea, and it’s nonaddictive, so it’s better than a sleeping pill. Plus, Elavil is indicated in other painful conditions, one of which I have: Interstitial cystitis. But Elavil is the biggest culprit in the dry eyes that prevent my eye doctor from giving me the contacts I want. But it’s a good drug, and I’m glad I have it. And when I run out of Flexeril, I’ll take half an Elavil in a pinch. They’re very similar. As for weight, I’ve heard that Elavil is supposed to put weight ON, but frankly, I’ve got so many drugs in my personal stew that I couldn’t begin to tell you which ones are driving my weight one way or the other, unless there’s been a big change in my drugs recently, like switching from Depakote to Topamax 6 months ago, and promptly losing 10 pounds. The BuSpar I don’t remember very well, as far as migraines are concerned… MHNI prescribed it during another bad-family period – my dad had died and I was still freaked about it, and I think the BuSpar was more for keeping ME off the ceiling, than to help with my headpain. It’s a great little drug, that doesn’t wrack you up with side effects. I think it kinda has one foot in the antidepressant category, and the other foot in the tranquilizer category. Ginnie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Really, prozac caused weight loss for you?  Seems funny since most of the other antidepressants seem to do just the opposite.  I gained ten pounds on Paxil. Is any of this helping with your migraines? Thanks! Michelle

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I have used Topopmax, Nortriptelyne and Prozac. Topomax worked except for dizzyness, Nortriptylene weight gain and Prozak nothing. Other high powered ones also caused extreme dizzyness amd nuaseau. If you can handle Topomax or Amitriptylene they might help. A good Neurologist is best way to go. Dr. Ken Moore is great out of Chicago area. This is his only specialialty. He is also covered by BCBS. http://www.helpforheadaches.com/ Even if you are from out of state he may be of help. 70% of his patients are from out of state. Jim

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all, I am looking at possibly going back on an antidepressant.  I’ve been on Paxil in the past and Effexor.  My experiences with Paxil and Effexor were both pretty good, but I did gain weight on the Paxil.  I wonder if people who have been on any of the antidepressants can share their experiences with them, i.e. did it help any of your migraines, chronic daily headaches, and did you experience side effects (and what were they)? The meds that come to my mind are Paxil, Effexor, Zoloft, Celexa, and Buspar.  Any others?  I’m not looking at diving into a heavy duty antidepressant…something mild is just fine.  Any comments, experiences, etc. are welcome. Thanks! Michelle

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Priscilla, did you notice any weight gain with the Celexa and do you use any triptans as an abortive?  I noticed on the Celexa site that they warn against using some of the triptans…didn’t know if that was an issue for you?

I think I gained a bit of weight during the time I was on Zoloft (my dress size went up), but then I don’t watch my weight and generally eat what makes my body feel good, without attention to calories.  I don’t own bathroom scales. There’s no real problem taking triptans with SSRIs.  I use Imitrex, and I’ve taken it while on Prozac, Zoloft, and Celexa.  It does a very different thing from what the SSRIs do. Sleepiness for me at night would be very welcome…during the day would not.

This is during the day.  Can’t sit/lie down to read a book without zzzzzzing out.  At bedtime, however, I often need help from melatonin or Benedryl. Priscilla — "As you get older, physical deterioration is offset by a larger world view and a deeper sense of gratitude."  Diane Keaton

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Hi all, I am looking at possibly going back on an antidepressant.  I’ve been on Paxil in the past and Effexor.  My experiences with Paxil and Effexor were both pretty good, but I did gain weight on the Paxil.  I wonder if people who have been on any of the antidepressants can share their experiences with them, i.e. did it help any of your migraines, chronic daily headaches, and did you experience side effects (and what were they)?

I’ve tried both tricyclics and SSRIs for ordinary migraines in the misty distant past.  The tricyclics seemed to help quite a bit, but had really weird side effects.  The SSRIs had barely-tolerable side effects (all different, I tried a bunch) and had just-barely perceptible effects on my headaches, I could never be sure if they were helping. Now I have chronic daily headaches, and Topomax is keeping them partly under control (I’m still in constant pain, but between the Topomax and the painkillers, it’s not quite so bad all the time.  Except when it flares up a few times a week.)  I tried adding a tricyclic antidepressant (25mg nortriptyline) as a preventative, and also for the antidepressant effects, because the Topomax and chronic pain together are awfully depressing.   I was only on the Nortriptyline for 3 days, because the side effects were so bad.  I used to describe my tricyclic (and a lot of other medication side effects) as "dizziness," or "motion sickness," even though it was oddly unlike vertigo.  It was like hallucinating, only with my sense of balance and that sense that tells you where your feet are without looking at them.  I’ve had "distorted perceptions" before, many times, but they usually last only a few minutes, and I can perceive reality kind of in the background.  With Nortriptyline, the distortion was much more intense, and it lasted about half an hour each time.  I did some research, and figured out that these were probably partial seizures.  I had 5 one day, 6 the next, then 4 the third day (when I tried to empty out half the powder in the nortriptyline capsule.)  I also had more absence seizures than I could count. The meds that come to my mind are Paxil, Effexor, Zoloft, Celexa, and Buspar.  Any others?  I’m not looking at diving into a heavy duty antidepressant…something mild is just fine.  Any comments, experiences, etc. are welcome.

One of my doctors said that the tricyclics were supposed to be most effective as migraine preventatives.  If you want something mild, you would want a low dose.  But all the tricyclics have the same risk of lowering the seizure threshold.  I think I had a mild seizure disorder for a long time, without knowing it, but going on and off the anti- seizure drugs (Depakote and Neurontin) and other drugs that were supposed to prevent migraine could have lowered my seizure threshold even further.   Adrian Turtle sidewalk radical

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Actually I have used all of those with exception of the Prozac.  The topomax experience was not one I could continue because of severe hives that developed about eight months into the treatment.  The amitriptylene is kind of sketchy because I tried it so many years ago and it didn’t work then and I had side effects that made me quit. I’m actually looking for the antidepressant for the antidepressant effect and hoping to help my CDHs as a side issue. Thanks! Michelle

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have used Topopmax, Nortriptelyne and Prozac. Topomax worked except for dizzyness, Nortriptylene weight gain and Prozak nothing. Other high powered ones also caused extreme dizzyness amd nuaseau. If you can handle Topomax or Amitriptylene they might help. A good Neurologist is best way to go. Dr. Ken Moore is great out of Chicago area. This is his only specialialty. He is also covered by BCBS. http://www.helpforheadaches.com/ Even if you are from out of state he may be of help. 70% of his patients are from out of state. Jim Hi all, I am looking at possibly going back on an antidepressant.  I’ve been on Paxil in the past and Effexor.  My experiences with Paxil and Effexor were both pretty good, but I did gain weight on the Paxil.  I wonder if people who have been on any of the antidepressants can share their experiences with them, i.e. did it help any of your migraines, chronic daily headaches, and did you experience side effects (and what were they)? The meds that come to my mind are Paxil, Effexor, Zoloft, Celexa, and Buspar.  Any others?  I’m not looking at diving into a heavy duty antidepressant…something mild is just fine.  Any comments, experiences, etc. are welcome. Thanks! Michelle

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Hi Michelle, I think during the time that I experienced CDH I tried about every SSRI they had out.  I think there may be a few new ones that i didn’t go on but the point is the entire time I took anti-depressants I also dealt with CDH and intractable migraines . I also took Desyrel to help me sleep and it did sleep me. But didn’t make any difference in the headaches. Since going off SSRI’s May of 2001 I’ve had a total of 3 migraines. Only 1 of them required more then imitrex to abort.  My CDH is just gone.  Yeah, I do still get headaches.  I’m a stress sponge I swear and when I get stressed I still get a headache, but believe it or not i can actually treat them OTC. That’s just my experience We’re all different but I can’t help but wonder if i had quit everything sooner what would have happened. Please understand that at the same time I quit the anti-deprssents i also got rid of a lot of other drugs.  Klonopin, muscle relaxors and percodan to name a few.  Any one of them or a combination of all of them could have contributed to my headaches. Hope this helps Karen – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all, I am looking at possibly going back on an antidepressant.  I’ve been on Paxil in the past and Effexor.  My experiences with Paxil and Effexor were both pretty good, but I did gain weight on the Paxil.  I wonder if people who have been on any of the antidepressants can share their experiences with them, i.e. did it help any of your migraines, chronic daily headaches, and did you experience side effects (and what were they)? The meds that come to my mind are Paxil, Effexor, Zoloft, Celexa, and Buspar.  Any others?  I’m not looking at diving into a heavy duty antidepressant…something mild is just fine.  Any comments, experiences, etc. are welcome. Thanks! Michelle

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Just thought I’d post this here FYI There is also a class action going against glaxosmithkline for paxil withdrawal information on it can also be found at this site (see url at end of article) Prozac, Zoloft, and Paxil Antidepressant Users v. Eli Lilly, Pfizer, and GlaxoSmithKline Commonly-Prescribed Antidepressants Are Extremely Dangerous for Some Some 200 legal actions have been filed against Eli Lilly, Pfizer, and GlaxoSmithKline, the manufacturers of Prozac (fluoxetine), Zoloft (sertraline), and Paxil (paroxetine), respectively, to recover for suicides or homicides–some completed, some only attempted–by patients in the first few days or weeks after they were prescribed one of these drugs.These three medications are in the same family, called SSRIs, for selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors. They are commonly prescribed for depression, and they work by increasing the amount of a chemical called serotonin in the brain. The actions against the drug companies claim that the companies knew–but failed to warn physicians and patients–that a small number of patients will experience a condition called akathisia, an overwhelming physical and mental restlessness, shortly after they begin taking these drugs. Other patients may, after beginning one of these medications, find themselves sufficiently energized to harm themselves, but not yet helped enough by the drug to control their destructive thoughts. Attorneys representing the patients or their survivors have discovered documents the companies hid–documents showing that these risks exist for all three antidepressants. Some of the patients who have suffered an akathisia reaction have been driven to horrible deeds. Matthew Miller was a 13-year-old who committed suicide less than a week after starting to take Zoloft. Donald Schell, 60, took two Paxil tablets before experiencing hallucinations and then shooting himself, his wife, their daughter, and their granddaughter to death on Feb. 13, 1998. On March 4, 1993, two weeks after starting to take Prozac, William Forsyth stabbed his wife 15 times as she lay in bed, and then leaned on the knife to kill himself. Reginald Payne, 63, a teacher in Great Britain, suffocated his wife and threw himself off a cliff in March 1996, after having taking Prozac for just 11 days. In July, 2001, a federal jury in Cheyenne, Wyoming ordered GlaxoSmithKline to pay $6.4 million to Donald Schell’s relatives. In that case, the relatives found internal GlaxoSmithKline documents showing the company was aware that a small number of people could become agitated or violent from Paxil. Despite this knowledge, Paxil packaging does not include a warning about suicide, violence or aggression. Documents Are Damning The documents discovered about Prozac are particularly revealing: 1. In 1990, Eli Lilly scientists were pressured by corporate executives to alter records on physicians’ experiences with Prozac, changing mentions of suicide attempts to "overdose" and suicidal thoughts to "depression." 2. Three years before Prozac received approval by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA), a similar agency in Germany had such serious reservations about Prozac’s safety that it refused to approve the antidepressant. Eli Lilly’s studies showed that previously nonsuicidal patients who took the drug had a five-fold higher rate of suicide and suicide attempts than those on older antidepressants, and a three-fold higher rate than those taking placebos. 3. Lilly’s own figures indicate that one in 100 previously nonsuicidal patients who took the drug in early clinical trials developed akathisia, causing them to attempt or commit suicide during the studies. It has also been discovered that the patent for a new version of Prozac, which Eli Lilly paid $90 million to acquire, states that the new formulation would reduce "the usual adverse effects" of the original Prozac, including "nervousness, anxiety, insomnia, inner restlessness (akathisia), suicidal thoughts, self-mutilation, manic behavior." Prozac was introduced by Eli Lilly to the U.S. market in January, 1988. Zoloft and Paxil followed in December, 1991, and December, 1992, respectively. Some 45,000 reports of adverse reactions to Prozac have been filed with the FDA. These include reports of about 2500 deaths, with the large majority linked to suicide or violence. Physicians Report Suicidal Reactions Dr. Martin Teicher of Harvard Medical School reported in 1990 that he and his colleagues had observed suicidal thoughts in six patients who were taking Prozac. More recently, Dr. David Healy, an expert on the brain’s serotonin system and the director of the North Wales Department of Psychological Medicine at the University of Wales, estimated that "probably 50,000 people have committed suicide on Prozac since its launch, over and above the number who would have done so if left untreated." Meanwhile, the drug companies continue to rely on a 1991 finding from an FDA advisory panel that "there is no credible evidence of a causal link between the use of antidepressant drugs, including Prozac, and suicidality or violent behaviour." http://www.classactionamerica.com/cases/case.asp?cid=1087

Response:

I have no problem with Nortriptyline which I am taking for 2 weeks.  I started and stayed on 10 mgs with no side effects to speak of; I have just increased my dose to 20 mgs, and I restarted Prozac yesterday.  I am also wearing the NTI appliance and my headaches are better [after 3 weeks].  I also take 1/3 of a triptan the last couple of days and may continue that as a preventative for a week or two and see how that works out.   Also, when I was on Paxil a few years ago, I think it cut down on some of my headaches at that time, but it had plenty of side effects. Joy

Response:

Thanks, Karen.  Interesting.  I had a conversation with my doctor today about the antidepressants and my experience with Paxil (weight gain and icky withdrawal).  He said it doesn’t have to be that way if a doctor closely manages the patient, but he also said Paxil really is bad for those two reasons.  He doesn’t typically prescribe it.  He said the newer drugs are actually turning out to have better results.  He mentioned Lexolor or something like that, but we agreed on Effexor for now since I did have good results with it last time.  We’ll see. I’ll check out the Paxil link…interesting. Thanks, Michelle

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Just thought I’d post this here FYI There is also a class action going against glaxosmithkline for paxil withdrawal information on it can also be found at this site (see url at end of article) Prozac, Zoloft, and Paxil Antidepressant Users v. Eli Lilly, Pfizer, and GlaxoSmithKline Commonly-Prescribed Antidepressants Are Extremely Dangerous for Some Some 200 legal actions have been filed against Eli Lilly, Pfizer, and GlaxoSmithKline, the manufacturers of Prozac (fluoxetine), Zoloft (sertraline), and Paxil (paroxetine), respectively, to recover for suicides or homicides–some completed, some only attempted–by patients in the first few days or weeks after they were prescribed one of these drugs.These three medications are in the same family, called SSRIs, for selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors. They are commonly prescribed for depression, and they work by increasing the amount of a chemical called serotonin in the brain. The actions against the drug companies claim that the companies knew–but failed to warn physicians and patients–that a small number of patients will experience a condition called akathisia, an overwhelming physical and mental restlessness, shortly after they begin taking these drugs. Other patients may, after beginning one of these medications, find themselves sufficiently energized to harm themselves, but not yet helped enough by the drug to control their destructive thoughts. Attorneys representing the patients or their survivors have discovered documents the companies hid–documents showing that these risks exist for all three antidepressants. Some of the patients who have suffered an akathisia reaction have been driven to horrible deeds. Matthew Miller was a 13-year-old who committed suicide less than a week after starting to take Zoloft. Donald Schell, 60, took two Paxil tablets before experiencing hallucinations and then shooting himself, his wife, their daughter, and their granddaughter to death on Feb. 13, 1998. On March 4, 1993, two weeks after starting to take Prozac, William Forsyth stabbed his wife 15 times as she lay in bed, and then leaned on the knife to kill himself. Reginald Payne, 63, a teacher in Great Britain, suffocated his wife and threw himself off a cliff in March 1996, after having taking Prozac for just 11 days. In July, 2001, a federal jury in Cheyenne, Wyoming ordered GlaxoSmithKline to pay $6.4 million to Donald Schell’s relatives. In that case, the relatives found internal GlaxoSmithKline documents showing the company was aware that a small number of people could become agitated or violent from Paxil. Despite this knowledge, Paxil packaging does not include a warning about suicide, violence or aggression. Documents Are Damning The documents discovered about Prozac are particularly revealing: 1. In 1990, Eli Lilly scientists were pressured by corporate executives to alter records on physicians’ experiences with Prozac, changing mentions of suicide attempts to "overdose" and suicidal thoughts to "depression." 2. Three years before Prozac received approval by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA), a similar agency in Germany had such serious reservations about Prozac’s safety that it refused to approve the antidepressant. Eli Lilly’s studies showed that previously nonsuicidal patients who took the drug had a five-fold higher rate of suicide and suicide attempts than those on older antidepressants, and a three-fold higher rate than those taking placebos. 3. Lilly’s own figures indicate that one in 100 previously nonsuicidal patients who took the drug in early clinical trials developed akathisia, causing them to attempt or commit suicide during the studies. It has also been discovered that the patent for a new version of Prozac, which Eli Lilly paid $90 million to acquire, states that the new formulation would reduce "the usual adverse effects" of the original Prozac, including "nervousness, anxiety, insomnia, inner restlessness (akathisia), suicidal thoughts, self-mutilation, manic behavior." Prozac was introduced by Eli Lilly to the U.S. market in January, 1988. Zoloft and Paxil followed in December, 1991, and December, 1992, respectively. Some 45,000 reports of adverse reactions to Prozac have been filed with the FDA. These include reports of about 2500 deaths, with the large majority linked to suicide or violence. Physicians Report Suicidal Reactions Dr. Martin Teicher of Harvard Medical School reported in 1990 that he and his colleagues had observed suicidal thoughts in six patients who were taking Prozac. More recently, Dr. David Healy, an expert on the brain’s serotonin system and the director of the North Wales Department of Psychological Medicine at the University of Wales, estimated that "probably 50,000 people have committed suicide on Prozac since its launch, over and above the number who would have done so if left untreated." Meanwhile, the drug companies continue to rely on a 1991 finding from an FDA advisory panel that "there is no credible evidence of a causal link between the use of antidepressant drugs, including Prozac, and suicidality or violent behaviour." http://www.classactionamerica.com/cases/case.asp?cid=1087

Response:

Joy, About the Paxil side effects…that’s what my doctor said.  He doesn’t typically prescribe it unless a patient had a history with it that was good. I went with Effexor since I had used that before, but he also mentioned something like Lexolor (sp?), but I never heard of that. Michelle

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have no problem with Nortriptyline which I am taking for 2 weeks.  I started and stayed on 10 mgs with no side effects to speak of; I have just increased my dose to 20 mgs, and I restarted Prozac yesterday.  I am also wearing the NTI appliance and my headaches are better [after 3 weeks].  I also take 1/3 of a triptan the last couple of days and may continue that as a preventative for a week or two and see how that works out.   Also, when I was on Paxil a few years ago, I think it cut down on some of my headaches at that time, but it had plenty of side effects. Joy

Response:

Thanks, Holly, Mine are mainly caused by hormones.  I have since started taking Effexor since I did have success with it in the past.  It actually has helped and I have had five out of seven days migraine free.  The other two days I suspect were caused by the upper level low that came sweeping in with massive rain (another trigger–weather). Thanks, though. Michelle

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have used several anti-depressants for migraine control.  I also am deficient in serotonin.  They all gave me out of control carbohydrate cravings.  This is a common side-effect – it changes your appetite control centers.  Some people become anorexic others get terrible hunger.  But, I invested in a light-box.  It simulates sunlight (sunlight is supposed to increase serotonin levels in the brain, which is what ssri’s do also) and has totally kept my migraines at bay without use of any drugs.  If you keep track of migraine cycles you may be able to see if they decrease when you spend more time outside in brilliant sunshine.  Holly

Response:

I have used several anti-depressants for migraine control.  I also am deficient in serotonin.  They all gave me out of control carbohydrate cravings.  This is a common side-effect – it changes your appetite control centers.  Some people become anorexic others get terrible hunger.  But, I invested in a light-box.  It simulates sunlight (sunlight is supposed to increase serotonin levels in the brain, which is what ssri’s do also) and has totally kept my migraines at bay without use of any drugs.  If you keep track of migraine cycles you may be able to see if they decrease when you spend more time outside in brilliant sunshine.  Holly

Response:

hello, ask your doctor about amitryptyline… works wonders for me…only on 40 mg a day. Psylocke — "Friends are bacon bits in the salad of life"

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all, I am looking at possibly going back on an antidepressant.  I’ve been on Paxil in the past and Effexor.  My experiences with Paxil and Effexor were both pretty good, but I did gain weight on the Paxil.  I wonder if people who have been on any of the antidepressants can share their experiences with them, i.e. did it help any of your migraines, chronic daily headaches, and did you experience side effects (and what were they)? The meds that come to my mind are Paxil, Effexor, Zoloft, Celexa, and Buspar.  Any others?  I’m not looking at diving into a heavy duty antidepressant…something mild is just fine.  Any comments, experiences, etc. are welcome. Thanks! Michelle

Response:

The only anti-depressant I take is Prozac and that is for my depression and for Attention Deficit Disorder. I take it once a day and it dosen’t do anything for my migraine headaches. barbara Booth

Response:

Really, prozac caused weight loss for you?  Seems funny since most of the other antidepressants seem to do just the opposite.  I gained ten pounds on Paxil. Is any of this helping with your migraines? Thanks! Michelle

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve been on the SSRI Prozac for maybe 16-18 years, and while it has some side effects I don’t care for (farting, tinnitus, dry mouth), it has some that are helpful (anorexia, wakeful-need to take it in the a.m.). And it’s available in a generic now. Prozac is also good at keeping weight off – they were or are marketing it as a weight reduction aid. I also take Elavil/actually I take Amitriptyline the generic at night, because it helps me sleep, and Elavil is good for overall pain syndromes in that it not only boosts the serotonin, but it also relaxes the muscles at night, which helps ensure better sleep. And it’s inexpensive. But its drawbacks are DRY mouth and dry eyes, and maybe tinnitus. I also took BuSpar several years ago, but it technically is a

tranquilizer, not an – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – antidepressant, even though it binds to serotonin receptors, and doesn’t make you sleepy. It’s a good drug, and fairly benign as far as side effects go. It was prescribed for me at MHNI. Ginnie Hi all, I am looking at possibly going back on an antidepressant.  I’ve been on Paxil in the past and Effexor.  My experiences with Paxil and Effexor were both pretty good, but I did gain weight on the Paxil.  I wonder if people who have been on any of the antidepressants can share their experiences with them, i.e. did it help any of your migraines, chronic daily headaches, and did you experience side effects (and what were they)? The meds that come to my mind are Paxil, Effexor, Zoloft, Celexa, and Buspar.  Any others?  I’m not looking at diving into a heavy duty antidepressant…something mild is just fine.  Any comments, experiences, etc. are welcome. Thanks! Michelle

Response:

Priscilla, did you notice any weight gain with the Celexa and do you use any triptans as an abortive?  I noticed on the Celexa site that they warn against using some of the triptans…didn’t know if that was an issue for you? Sleepiness for me at night would be very welcome…during the day would not. Thanks, Michelle

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all, I am looking at possibly going back on an antidepressant.  I’ve been on Paxil in the past and Effexor.  My experiences with Paxil and Effexor were both pretty good, but I did gain weight on the Paxil.  I wonder if people who have been on any of the antidepressants can share their experiences with them, i.e. did it help any of your migraines, chronic daily headaches, and did you experience side effects (and what were they)? The meds that come to my mind are Paxil, Effexor, Zoloft, Celexa, and Buspar.  Any others?  I’m not looking at diving into a heavy duty antidepressant…something mild is just fine.  Any comments, experiences, etc. are welcome. I’m going off Celexa and back to Zoloft because I suspect Celexa may be responsible for my terrible sleepiness.  It worked well as an antidepressant, as did Zoloft before (and I hope again!). Priscilla — "As you get older, physical deterioration is offset by a larger world view and a deeper sense of gratitude."  Diane Keaton

Response:

I’ve been on the SSRI Prozac for maybe 16-18 years, and while it has some side effects I don’t care for (farting, tinnitus, dry mouth), it has some that are helpful (anorexia, wakeful-need to take it in the a.m.). And it’s available in a generic now. Prozac is also good at keeping weight off – they were or are marketing it as a weight reduction aid. I also take Elavil/actually I take Amitriptyline the generic at night, because it helps me sleep, and Elavil is good for overall pain syndromes in that it not only boosts the serotonin, but it also relaxes the muscles at night, which helps ensure better sleep. And it’s inexpensive. But its drawbacks are DRY mouth and dry eyes, and maybe tinnitus. I also took BuSpar several years ago, but it technically is a tranquilizer, not an antidepressant, even though it binds to serotonin receptors, and doesn’t make you sleepy. It’s a good drug, and fairly benign as far as side effects go. It was prescribed for me at MHNI. Ginnie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all, I am looking at possibly going back on an antidepressant.  I’ve been on Paxil in the past and Effexor.  My experiences with Paxil and Effexor were both pretty good, but I did gain weight on the Paxil.  I wonder if people who have been on any of the antidepressants can share their experiences with them, i.e. did it help any of your migraines, chronic daily headaches, and did you experience side effects (and what were they)? The meds that come to my mind are Paxil, Effexor, Zoloft, Celexa, and Buspar.  Any others?  I’m not looking at diving into a heavy duty antidepressant…something mild is just fine.  Any comments, experiences, etc. are welcome. Thanks! Michelle

Response:

Hi all, I am looking at possibly going back on an antidepressant.  I’ve been on Paxil in the past and Effexor.  My experiences with Paxil and Effexor were both pretty good, but I did gain weight on the Paxil.  I wonder if people who have been on any of the antidepressants can share their experiences with them, i.e. did it help any of your migraines, chronic daily headaches, and did you experience side effects (and what were they)? The meds that come to my mind are Paxil, Effexor, Zoloft, Celexa, and Buspar.  Any others?  I’m not looking at diving into a heavy duty antidepressant…something mild is just fine.  Any comments, experiences, etc. are welcome.

I’m going off Celexa and back to Zoloft because I suspect Celexa may be responsible for my terrible sleepiness.  It worked well as an antidepressant, as did Zoloft before (and I hope again!). Priscilla — "As you get older, physical deterioration is offset by a larger world view and a deeper sense of gratitude."  Diane Keaton

Response:

Have tried the tricyclics (no help, much weight gain); three SSRIs (no help & no libido either); and Welbutrin (no help, spoiled my occasional cigar…hee hee). Sorry. Hope your experience is better. –Julianne

Response:

Hi all, I am looking at possibly going back on an antidepressant.  I’ve been on Paxil in the past and Effexor.  My experiences with Paxil and Effexor were both pretty good, but I did gain weight on the Paxil.  I wonder if people who have been on any of the antidepressants can share their experiences with them, i.e. did it help any of your migraines, chronic daily headaches, and did you experience side effects (and what were they)? The meds that come to my mind are Paxil, Effexor, Zoloft, Celexa, and Buspar.  Any others?  I’m not looking at diving into a heavy duty antidepressant…something mild is just fine.  Any comments, experiences, etc. are welcome. Thanks! Michelle

Response:

Question:

Hi everyone. 4 weeks off Zoloft(for Anxiety)- coping fairly well, some days really suck and others are fine. Apparently I do my current job to well or the company is desperate for help.  I dunno, but I am flattered that I am being asked.  My situation is this. I do not need the money ( I guess I could probably make $2. more per hour ) but Christmas is coming – It would help out (If I can stand to shop long enough –  I hate the hustle and bustle) I consider myself fairly intellegent and enjoy doing my job well and having people notice. I do want to be challenged mentally as well as with the anxiety. I do want to "HELP" my struggling boss trying to do 2 + jobs. But: I do not want to supervise a bunch of whining brats. I do not to run around the office like my hair is on fire. I do want to sleep at nite. I tend to (Process) things in my head over and over. I have a week to decide. My main concern is my mental health – I don’t want to stir up anything- but yet I don’t know if just taking the EASIER way – Is the best way to go through the rest of my life. (I’m 31) I guess I feel somewhat obligated to try this out (after all "they think pretty highly of me")- the Supervisor said I could return to my current position if I want to -but could I look him in the eye and ask to be demoted? He probably would talk me out of it just as he is trying to talk me into it. I know that none of you know me or the company I work for- but what do you think? Bonnie Before you buy.

Response:

Glad to hear you’re doing  well off med,and at your job,  BUT  give it a lot of thought before you take the promotion.  I got the shaft recently with a co. who loved me, bragged about me, put me in charge of buying as well as asst. mngr, but, then when I got ill they didn’t want me, harrassed me, lied about me, etc.  It’s much better to be loved where you are than to be treated so poorly.   My last job before this one,  demoted me   for getting ill and missing to much hard long hours, and the only satisfaction is knowing you did your best, and whatever makes us ill, we don;t ask for.  Mine was asthma, no mental problem at that time.    Anyway -Good Luck in your future, and with love and concern I will pray whatever decesion you make that God helps you to make the right one.  We are each diff. LOL Charisma  

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi everyone. 4 weeks off Zoloft(for Anxiety)- coping fairly well, some days really suck and others are fine. Apparently I do my current job to well or the company is desperate for help.  I dunno, but I am flattered that I am being asked.  My situation is this. I do not need the money ( I guess I could probably make $2. more per hour ) but Christmas is coming – It would help out (If I can stand to shop long enough –  I hate the hustle and bustle) I consider myself fairly intellegent and enjoy doing my job well and having people notice. I do want to be challenged mentally as well as with the anxiety. I do want to "HELP" my struggling boss trying to do 2 + jobs. But: I do not want to supervise a bunch of whining brats. I do not to run around the office like my hair is on fire. I do want to sleep at nite. I tend to (Process) things in my head over and over. I have a week to decide. My main concern is my mental health – I don’t want to stir up anything- but yet I don’t know if just taking the EASIER way – Is the best way to go through the rest of my life. (I’m 31) I guess I feel somewhat obligated to try this out (after all "they think pretty highly of me")- the Supervisor said I could return to my current position if I want to -but could I look him in the eye and ask to be demoted? He probably would talk me out of it just as he is trying to talk me into it. I know that none of you know me or the company I work for- but what do you think? Bonnie

Dear Bonnie, Congratulations on being offered a promotion, I am sure that had to make you feel good Only you can decide whether or not you should go for it. I think it is great that your boss would allow you to go back to your old position if need be. I wish you much luck in whatever you decide!! Take care. Jackie ~*~You may be deceived if you trust too much, but you will live in torment if

Response:

Hi, bonnie, Pat yourself on the back for me – it is a tremendous feeling to be noticed and given the chance for a promotion.  About ten years ago I was in the same situation and it made me feel wonderful.  but for many reasons, one being anxiety, I didn’t accept and to this day I know I made the right decision. Absolutely love my job and wouldn’t give it up unless I had to.  Not many people are this fortunate to love their jobs but when you have one you do enjoy it makes going to work much easier.  good luck on your decision making and please let us know wht you decide. smiles, elise

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi everyone. 4 weeks off Zoloft(for Anxiety)- coping fairly well, some days really suck and others are fine. Apparently I do my current job to well or the company is desperate for help.  I dunno, but I am flattered that I am being asked.  My situation is this. I do not need the money ( I guess I could probably make $2. more per hour ) but Christmas is coming – It would help out (If I can stand to shop long enough –  I hate the hustle and bustle) I consider myself fairly intellegent and enjoy doing my job well and having people notice. I do want to be challenged mentally as well as with the anxiety. I do want to "HELP" my struggling boss trying to do 2 + jobs. But: I do not want to supervise a bunch of whining brats. I do not to run around the office like my hair is on fire. I do want to sleep at nite. I tend to (Process) things in my head over and over. I have a week to decide. My main concern is my mental health – I don’t want to stir up anything- but yet I don’t know if just taking the EASIER way – Is the best way to go through the rest of my life. (I’m 31) I guess I feel somewhat obligated to try this out (after all "they think pretty highly of me")- the Supervisor said I could return to my current position if I want to -but could I look him in the eye and ask to be demoted? He probably would talk me out of it just as he is trying to talk me into it. I know that none of you know me or the company I work for- but what do you think? Bonnie Dear Bonnie, Congratulations on being offered a promotion, I am sure that had to make you feel good Only you can decide whether or not you should go for it. I think it is great that your boss would allow you to go back to your old position if need be. I wish you much luck in whatever you decide!! Take care. Jackie ~*~You may be deceived if you trust too much, but you will live in torment if

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi everyone. 4 weeks off Zoloft(for Anxiety)- coping fairly well, some days really suck and others are fine. Apparently I do my current job to well or the company is desperate for help.  I dunno, but I am flattered that I am being asked.  My situation is this. I do not need the money ( I guess I could probably make $2. more per hour ) but Christmas is coming – It would help out (If I can stand to shop long enough –  I hate the hustle and bustle) I consider myself fairly intellegent and enjoy doing my job well and having people notice. I do want to be challenged mentally as well as with the anxiety. I do want to "HELP" my struggling boss trying to do 2 + jobs. But: I do not want to supervise a bunch of whining brats. I do not to run around the office like my hair is on fire. I do want to sleep at nite. I tend to (Process) things in my head over and over. I have a week to decide. My main concern is my mental health – I don’t want to stir up anything- but yet I don’t know if just taking the EASIER way – Is the best way to go through the rest of my life. (I’m 31) I guess I feel somewhat obligated to try this out (after all "they think pretty highly of me")- the Supervisor said I could return to my current position if I want to – but could I look him in the eye and ask to be demoted? He probably would talk me out of it just as he is trying to talk me into it. I know that none of you know me or the company I work for- but what do you think? Bonnie Before you buy. I haven’t decided for sure yet.  But I think I’m going to take a

chance and do the thing I fear most.  I appreciate all of your advice- I’m going into this with my eyes wide open- and if it doesn’t work out and they don’t let me do my old job- well then maybe it’s time to move on. (I fear that too) I will keep you posted. Best of Health to you all, Bonnie Before you buy.

Response:

Question:

Well I thought I would come to this NG for some input. My girlfriend and I have been together for three years now. When we met she was abusing volume and was on her last leg, just darn near living in her car but always had here pills. I took her in and was able to stop the pill taking execept for a few incidents. Anyhow this takes us to where we are now. A few weeks ago I noticed that she was acting the same as on volume. I was at my last string when she finally told me she had been to the doctors for anxiety attacks and depression. She claimed that she was diagnosed before we had met.  Her doctor, a few weeks ago prescribed her xanax and zoloft to there maximum dose. Now I have read a few internet sites on anxiety attacks and I have not witnessed one episode.  In fact I have not seen any depression or sadness throughout our relationship. She has told me recently that she can tell when one is coming so she just leaves to her moms to deal with it. So I guess my question is, are pills something that can be abused or should I look farther into the anxiety attacks? Can a family doctor diagnose anxiety and depression? Thanks very much for your input.         Ken

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well I thought I would come to this NG for some input. My girlfriend and I have been together for three years now. When we met she was abusing volume and was on her last leg, just darn near living in her car but always had here pills. I took her in and was able to stop the pill taking execept for a few incidents. Anyhow this takes us to where we are now. A few weeks ago I noticed that she was acting the same as on volume. I was at my last string when she finally told me she had been to the doctors for anxiety attacks and depression. She claimed that she was diagnosed before we had met.  Her doctor, a few weeks ago prescribed her xanax and zoloft to there maximum dose. Now I have read a few internet sites on anxiety attacks and I have not witnessed one episode.  In fact I have not seen any depression or sadness throughout our relationship. She has told me recently that she can tell when one is coming so she just leaves to her moms to deal with it. So I guess my question is, are pills something that can be abused or should I look farther into the anxiety attacks? Can a family doctor diagnose anxiety and depression? Thanks very much for your input.         Ken

Hi Ken! It’s very hard to give you good advice without knowing a lot more about your GF.  Sometimes a family doctor can diagnose anxiety, panic or depression, but your best bet is for her to see a psychiatrist to be diagnosed properly.  I’ve hidden some pretty whopper panic attacks and no one knew I was going through them at the time.  It is possible she’s had and hidden them well.  I’m not a doctor and I wish I could help you more.  Please post other info about your GF if you have any and maybe someone else here can give you more insight.  Sorry! Di

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well I thought I would come to this NG for some input. My girlfriend and I have been together for three years now. When we met she was abusing volume and was on her last leg, just darn near living in her car but always had here pills. I took her in and was able to stop the pill taking execept for a few incidents. Anyhow this takes us to where we are now. A few weeks ago I noticed that she was acting the same as on volume. I was at my last string when she finally told me she had been to the doctors for anxiety attacks and depression. She claimed that she was diagnosed before we had met.  Her doctor, a few weeks ago prescribed her xanax and zoloft to there maximum dose. Now I have read a few internet sites on anxiety attacks and I have not witnessed one episode.  In fact I have not seen any depression or sadness throughout our relationship. She has told me recently that she can tell when one is coming so she just leaves to her moms to deal with it. So I guess my question is, are pills something that can be abused or should I look farther into the anxiety attacks? Can a family doctor diagnose anxiety and depression?

Dear Ken, Welcome to ASAP!!! Yes, a family doctor can diagnosis and treat anxiety and depression. However, it is in anyones best interest to go to a psych doctor to be diagnosed and treated, they know much more about anxiety and depression than a MD. I am not surprised that you haven`t witnessed any panic or depression in your girlfriend. We tend to cover up these disorders quite well. My husband very rarely can tell when I am having a bad time. My mother has told me she cannot believe that I have an anxiety disorder, I can be at her home with high anxiety and yet come across cheerful and calm. However, it takes great stength and energy to give the appearance of calm and control, it actually increases our anxiety and depression in the long run. It is also very hard for many people with an anxiety disorder or depression to confide in another person about their disorder. We fear rejection and judgement, all we want is acceptance and an attempt at understanding us. Perhaps that is why she didn`t tell you right away. Maybe she has been hurt by someone over this in the past. Xanax can be abused, however people who take benzo`s for anxiety disorders usually don`t abuse them. As long as she follows her doctors instructions on how to take the xanax, she should be okay. If she takes the Xanax for an extended period of time she will become dependent on them. What that means is she can never quit Xanax cold turkey, if she does it could make her quite sick. When the time comes to get off Xanax she will need to wean slowly under her doctors care, she may experience uncomfortable withdrawal symptoms. Same goes with Zoloft, she should never quit cold turkey, but to wean off them under a doctors care. I know you must feel confused by all of this. You must care alot for her for you to post at this newsgroup to learn more about her meds and disorder. The best thing you can do for her is to support her unconditionally, she will do go far with you love and support. Anger and ill spoken words( not saying you have done this) hurt more than people can imagine. She needs to feel safe. Also educate yourself about her meds and disorder, knowledge is power, you will also be able to help her better if you understand the nature of this beast. Here is a link to a great website on anxiety disorders. Make sure you check out the family and friends link on this page, you will find some info and support for the *support* person of an anxiety sufferer. http://panicdisorder.about.com/health/panicdisorder/index.htm?COB=hom… I wish the both of you much luck and take care. Jackie

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well I thought I would come to this NG for some input. My girlfriend and I have been together for three years now. When we met she was abusing volume and was on her last leg, just darn near living in her car but always had here pills. I took her in and was able to stop the pill taking execept for a few incidents. Anyhow this takes us to where we are now. A few weeks ago I noticed that she was acting the same as on volume. I was at my last string when she finally told me she had been to the doctors for anxiety attacks and depression. She claimed that she was diagnosed before we had met.  Her doctor, a few weeks ago prescribed her xanax and zoloft to there maximum dose. Now I have read a few internet sites on anxiety attacks and I have not witnessed one episode.  In fact I have not seen any depression or sadness throughout our relationship. She has told me recently that she can tell when one is coming so she just leaves to her moms to deal with it. So I guess my question is, are pills something that can be abused or should I look farther into the anxiety attacks? Can a family doctor diagnose anxiety and depression? Thanks very much for your input.         Ken My family doctor didnt know shit about panic attacks and prescribing medicine.

 he started me on too much paxil 20mgs and to little xanax.5mgs.  I called him and told him i was still having panic attacks and he told me i could up the xanax and that 20 mgs of paxil was for depression.  so then i went to 30mgs of paxil then 40mgs then 50mgs.  i had to wait 3 months to see a psychiatrist. donny – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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Question:

Things have been a bit better lately.  I’ve had less to think about, and therefore less stray thoughts, which is nice. Its funny, when I started taking Zoloft, I looked up on the CVS website drug interaction checker whether or not caffiene interacts with it, and it said it didn’t.  However, it was nice enough to inform me that caffeine interacts with food!  DUH!!!  :) Jason

Glad to hear that you’re doing better.  I’m not doing better–my anxiety and agitation levels are still pretty extreme, so I’m going to try decreasing my dose to 100 mg for a few days (though I need to remember to call my psychiatrist tomorrow to tell her what I’ve decided to do ) to see if it makes a difference. persephone — "It’s a common error among mortals active in organized religion to place devotion to historical propositions and to organizations above devotion to life-shaping principles." –Allen R. Barlow Before you buy.

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I haven’t told her yet because it only just recently started increasing to the point where I noticed it, but I meet with her in about a week, and I’ll mention it to her then.  It probably won’t make much of a difference because the Zoloft doesn’t seem to be working too well, and so she’ll probably put me on another AD soon unless it does start working.  Thanks! persephone << question about Zoloft What you describe is an occasional side effect of many AD meds. Have you told your doctor? Be well. Bob

– "It’s a common error among mortals active in organized religion to place devotion to historical propositions and to organizations above devotion to life-shaping principles." –Allen R. Barlow Before you buy.

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Things have been a bit better lately.  I’ve had less to think about, and therefore less stray thoughts, which is nice. Its funny, when I started taking Zoloft, I looked up on the CVS website drug interaction checker whether or not caffiene interacts with it, and it said it didn’t.  However, it was nice enough to inform me that caffeine interacts with food!  DUH!!!  :) Jason – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m sorry.  :(  Maybe you should talk to your pdoc about the agitation. She might be willing to try another med that’s not an SSRI.  If the Zoloft is really working for you, you might want to try to give up the caffiene, though I realize this is much easier said than done.  If I had to give up ice cream, I’m not sure what I would do… persephone Ack! No! I didn’t see the post about caffiene and Zoloft.  If I have to give up my Mt. Dew to have to take this stuff, I’ll be more depressed than I was before I started it! Jason — "It’s a common error among mortals active in organized religion to place devotion to historical propositions and to organizations above devotion to life-shaping principles." –Allen R. Barlow Before you buy.

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<< question about Zoloft What you describe is an occasional side effect of many AD meds. Have you told your doctor? Be well. Bob

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I’m sorry.  :(  Maybe you should talk to your pdoc about the agitation. She might be willing to try another med that’s not an SSRI.  If the Zoloft is really working for you, you might want to try to give up the caffiene, though I realize this is much easier said than done.  If I had to give up ice cream, I’m not sure what I would do… persephone Ack! No! I didn’t see the post about caffiene and Zoloft.  If I have to give up my Mt. Dew to have to take this stuff, I’ll be more depressed than I was before I started it! Jason

– "It’s a common error among mortals active in organized religion to place devotion to historical propositions and to organizations above devotion to life-shaping principles." –Allen R. Barlow Before you buy.

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Ack! No! I didn’t see the post about caffiene and Zoloft.  If I have to give up my Mt. Dew to have to take this stuff, I’ll be more depressed than I was before I started it! Jason – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks for the response, Jason.  Glad to know I’m not alone.  By the way, did you see the thread where ali mentioned that caffiene interacts with SSRIs and increases agitation?  It might be something to keep in mind.  Take care. persephone Hiya, I’m actually on Zoloft right now too, and I have the same problem unfortunately.  It usually happens at night, which makes sleep nigh impossible.  Its been really bothersome.  I’ve started taking it earlier in the day (I used to take it at 5:30pm every day), but it hasn’t seemed to help yet. Jason Okay, I’m going to take the plunge and post again… I have a question about Zoloft.  I’m currently on Zoloft, and since I started taking it, there are periods during the day where I have a lot of agitated, restless energy and my mind does nothing but race.  And, these periods get more frequent every time my medication is upped. Have people experienced this particular side effect on Zoloft, or do you think it’s just part of the depression? (I have a friend with depression who’s not on any medication who gets this way sometimes). Before you buy. — "It

Question:

Renee, your idea sounds wonderful.  Yes, part of the problem is that my brain is like a video in fast forward.  I tend to keep busy (physically busy) just to keep from thinking. Now that helps, but the moment I stop being busy, the brain switches into fast forward.  I can’t read very much without losing track and if I force myself my headaches start.  Can you tell me a little more.  What kind of thoughts do you try to focus on…..I believe I would tend to go to the thoughts that trouble me.

I don’t try to focus on anything – i think that for me, that was part of the problem – i was trying to control it.  When I unfocus and just let the thoughts and images flow over me, eventually, I can calm down, my mind isn’t racing as much, and i generally feel calmer.  Doing this 15 minutes a day reguarly over a period of time helped me immensely.  I hope it does the same for you! I’ve been like this for about five years, when I was peacekeeping in Bosnia. Before that I never had any problems….I read all the time.  I finished university with an A/B average….I had what I believe was similar to a photographic memory.   The memory seems to be improving a little.  I just need to attack the concentration problem.

I believe you can do it, but it might take some time and some effort, and it’s easy (or at least it was for me) to get discouraged.  Journaling your thoughts might also help.  It might be helpful to look at them as a small child needing attention – if you give them the attention, and just flow along with it for a short period of time, they might give you some peace the rest of the day, or at least be less intrusive. good luck and let me know how it goes! take care, Renee No pessimist ever discovered the secrets of the stars, or sailed to an uncharted land, or opened a new heaven to the human spirit. –Helen Keller

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Thanks for the input everyone. Jackie, I’ve been taking effexor since March.  I’m up to 150 mg a day and I take imovane for sleep.  The headaches have improved since I switched over from Prozac…and improved to the point that I feel I can overcome the concentration problems. Renee, your idea sounds wonderful.  Yes, part of the problem is that my brain is like a video in fast forward.  I tend to keep busy (physically busy) just to keep from thinking. Now that helps, but the moment I stop being busy, the brain switches into fast forward.  I can’t read very much without losing track and if I force myself my headaches start.  Can you tell me a little more.  What kind of thoughts do you try to focus on…..I believe I would tend to go to the thoughts that trouble me. I’ve been like this for about five years, when I was peacekeeping in Bosnia. Before that I never had any problems….I read all the time.  I finished university with an A/B average….I had what I believe was similar to a photographic memory.   The memory seems to be improving a little.  I just need to attack the concentration problem. Take Care Lesleyanne

Hi chech, I looked up Imovane on the net because it isn’t listed in my US PDR. From what I saw, doses of 7.5 mg and less should have no effect on your CNS, but above that, there can and probably will be.  If you are taking doses greater than 7.5 mg, you may want to talk to your pdoc about it. Otherwise, I know that even while on SSRIs, an increase in anxiety will have a tremendous effect on my concentration and memory.  Even when I don’t "feel" anxious, anxiety inducing events will have that effect. Remember that I have GAD with PD, so YMMV, etc., etc. tnx, drr — The second nicest guy on the internet Need the ASAP Mini-FAQ? A copy is at www.drrhodes.org

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Thanks for the input everyone. Jackie, I’ve been taking effexor since March.  I’m up to 150 mg a day and I take imovane for sleep.  The headaches have improved since I switched over from Prozac…and improved to the point that I feel I can overcome the concentration problems. Renee, your idea sounds wonderful.  Yes, part of the problem is that my brain is like a video in fast forward.  I tend to keep busy (physically busy) just to keep from thinking. Now that helps, but the moment I stop being busy, the brain switches into fast forward.  I can’t read very much without losing track and if I force myself my headaches start.  Can you tell me a little more.  What kind of thoughts do you try to focus on…..I believe I would tend to go to the thoughts that trouble me. I’ve been like this for about five years, when I was peacekeeping in Bosnia. Before that I never had any problems….I read all the time.  I finished university with an A/B average….I had what I believe was similar to a photographic memory.   The memory seems to be improving a little.  I just need to attack the concentration problem. Take Care Lesleyanne The one and only chech has a home on the information highway… just turn right at http://home.thezone.net/~chech

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Roo asked:

Hi Roo, If your anxiety and/or depression are causing problems with your attention span, than there is the possibility that Effexor could help. If Effexor is effective in eliminating or greatly reducing your anxiety and depression then your attention span might improve. With my last setback I was so bad that following a recipe in a cookbook was hard for me. Paxil reduced my anxiety so much, that my concentration has come back. However, there is no quarantee even if the Effexor does work, that your attention span will be better. I know a few people that even when they found effective meds for their anxiety and/or depression their concentration was still bad…….so this is a YMMV thing. Take care and good luck with your new med!! jackie

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Hi Lesleyanne ~ I have PTSD too and concentration used to be a real problem for me.  I’d read the same paragraph or sentence over and over and still not know what it said.  Don’t remember that headaches were a part of that, but it seems like I’ve always had trouble with them. Weird question: I’m wondering what specifically is troublesome about reading or concentration…. is it that too many things are going through your head, ‘just’ unfocused ??  I had some of each.  Meditation really helped ‘quiet’ my racing mind.  I would lay on the floor or sit in a comfortable chair for 15-30 minutes (and had to work up to that.  initially, if I could do it for 30 seconds, I was thrilled).  Sometimes I’d try to focus on a specific thing, other times I would just let all those thoughts flow over me, and eventually, my brain would slow down enough to where I felt more comfortable, and had greater focus.  It took a long time – many months – to get to the point where I could read a book again. How long have you dealt with this, and what have you tried?  I agree with Jackie that it’s hard for anyone to concentrate with a headache. I find that I work best when I am not focusing on any one thing for ‘too long’, and am doing a variety of things through the day.  I’m a multitasker take care, Renee No pessimist ever discovered the secrets of the stars, or sailed to an uncharted land, or opened a new heaven to the human spirit. –Helen Keller – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I suffer from PTSD and the one symptom that is really bothering me now is the concentration problems. I was wondering if there was anything I could do to get it back.  I can’t read for very long or do anything that requires mental concentration for very long.  I have a constant ‘tension’ type headache (usually on the right side) althought that has improved since I switched from prozac to effexor. Any thoughts or experiences with this problem would be greatly appreciated.

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— Roo.com       http://www.roo.com Well, dip me in honey…

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I suffer from PTSD and the one symptom that is really bothering me now is the concentration problems. I was wondering if there was anything I could do to get it back.  I can’t read for very long or do anything that requires mental concentration for very long.  I have a constant ‘tension’ type headache (usually on the right side) althought that has improved since I switched from prozac to effexor. Any thoughts or experiences with this problem would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Lesleyanne Hi Lesleyanne, How long have you been on the Effxor? If it has only been a short while, then maybe more time is needed to see if this symptom will improve with the Effexor. With my last setback my concentration was awful, but Paxil really took care of it. I know concentration problems are quite common with anxiety disorders and it seems to be a stubborn symptom. I suffer from Migraines and when I have one, I cannot concentrate. It is possible that your chronic headaches might be interfering with your concentration. Have you been to a neurologist for your headaches? Perhaps treating the headache would help the concentration? The only other time I had terrible concentration problems was when my thyroid was acting up. I assumed that all my symptoms were anxiety, when in fact it was my thyroid. Might not hurt to look into that, just to be sure. Take care and feel better!!! Jackie "Don’t be afraid of the space between your dreams and reality.  If you can dream it, you can make it so."

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I suffer from PTSD and the one symptom that is really bothering me now is the concentration problems. I was wondering if there was anything I could do to get it back.  I can’t read for very long or do anything that requires mental concentration for very long.  I have a constant ‘tension’ type headache (usually on the right side) althought that has improved since I switched from prozac to effexor. Any thoughts or experiences with this problem would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Lesleyanne The one and only chech lives in cyberspace at http://home.thezone.net/~chech

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I suffer from PTSD and the one symptom that is really bothering me now is the concentration problems. I was wondering if there was anything I could do to get it back.  I can’t read for very long or do anything that requires mental concentration for very long.  I have a constant ‘tension’ type headache (usually on the right side) althought that has improved since I switched from prozac to effexor. Any thoughts or experiences with this problem would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Lesleyanne

Hi Lesleyanne, How long have you been on the Effxor? If it has only been a short while, then maybe more time is needed to see if this symptom will improve with the Effexor. With my last setback my concentration was awful, but Paxil really took care of it. I know concentration problems are quite common with anxiety disorders and it seems to be a stubborn symptom. I suffer from Migraines and when I have one, I cannot concentrate. It is possible that your chronic headaches might be interfering with your concentration. Have you been to a neurologist for your headaches? Perhaps treating the headache would help the concentration? The only other time I had terrible concentration problems was when my thyroid was acting up. I assumed that all my symptoms were anxiety, when in fact it was my thyroid. Might not hurt to look into that, just to be sure. Take care and feel better!!! Jackie "Don’t be afraid of the space between your dreams and reality.  If you can dream it, you can make it so."

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Question:

I have just been prescribed  venlafaxine for anxiety.  Could anybody tell me anything about this drug i.e. positive and negative results. Thank you. Tracy

Basically it’s a TCA. It may well work. But other TCA’s are better researched and I would never try velafaxine as a first choice med. It it should be a TCA- which may well work and can be combined with a benzo – I’d opt for imipramine first (the mother of all TCA’s ) But of course YMMV. Philip

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My understanding is that effexor is one of the ‘newer’ antidepressants that inhibits the reuptake of serotonin – like the the ssri’s [paxil zoloft] but also controls levels of noradrenaline [as the old TCAs do]. Effexor is thought to be very ‘effective’ .. but also a bit prone to producing side-effects — high blood pressure, nausea, weight -loss, sexual dysfunction etc — very similar really to the SSRIs Hope this helps Chris

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I have just been prescribed  venlafaxine for anxiety.  Could anybody tell me anything about this drug i.e. positive and negative results.   Thank you. Tracy

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Did not work for me at all.  The side effects were terrible.  But remember that everybody is different and it may work for you. JP – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have just been prescribed  venlafaxine for anxiety.  Could anybody tell me anything about this drug i.e. positive and negative results. Thank you. Tracy

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Question:

The antidepressant venlafaxine (Effexor) is similar in its pharmacology to Meridia, yet it isn’t scheduled.  The antidepressant bupropion Wellbutrin) is arguably more of a "stimulant" than sibutramine, yet isn’t scheduled.  (I’m not arguing that either *should* be, of course.) Both butorphanol (Stadol) and tramadol (Ultram) are so-called "non-narcotic" analgesics which can cause dependence and abuse, yet they aren’t scheduled.  It’s clear that an indication of obesity is enough of a bogeyman to the DEA that they’ll schedule first and worry about it later.

It was clear to Knoll that obesity was enough of a bogeyman. I spoke to some of their folks just before the press conference announcing the market date. They knew they couldn’t fight the Schedule 4 classification. If they could have, it would have been much easier to market. For one thing, they could have given physicians samples. This is a no-no in scheduled drugs. Barbara Barbara Hirsch, Publisher Obesity Meds and Research News OMR Web Site: http://www.obesity-news.com

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Perhaps once enough experience is gained with it, it will be removed from the DEA Schedules.

Has anything ever been unscheduled?  I recall a bunch of unscheduled going scheduled (clonipin, soma, etc), but none going the other way. — dc potts biologist at large (pull the nospam out of my email address to respond)

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Do you have any idea why Meridia is scheduled?  It isn’t addictive, is it?

There’s no evidence that sibutramine has any abuse potential, but the fact that it is psychoactive and that it has (in some individuals) somewhat of a stimulating action AND that it is prescribed for obesity, was enough for the DEA to classify it as C-IV.  Their thinking is obviously to be as careful and restrictive as possible at the drug’s introduction, rather than risk the possibility of releasing a drug unscheduled, only to find that it has a degree of abuse potential. Perhaps once enough experience is gained with it, it will be removed from the DEA Schedules. The antidepressant venlafaxine (Effexor) is similar in its pharmacology to Meridia, yet it isn’t scheduled.  The antidepressant bupropion Wellbutrin) is arguably more of a "stimulant" than sibutramine, yet isn’t scheduled.  (I’m not arguing that either *should* be, of course.) Both butorphanol (Stadol) and tramadol (Ultram) are so-called "non-narcotic" analgesics which can cause dependence and abuse, yet they aren’t scheduled.  It’s clear that an indication of obesity is enough of a bogeyman to the DEA that they’ll schedule first and worry about it later. — Steve Dyer

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Now the DEA isn’t going to know whether a doctor sees the patient or not by the prescription, but if a doctor is prescribing huge amounts of a drug, that could trigger an investigation. Then if the DEA investigates and finds irregularities in records, the doctor has a problem.

Wow. I wish we could get rid of this whole stupid prescription system. Vigara is not scheduled, but Meridia is (not that it should be, but that’s another post).

Stupid inconsistencies like this are one reason. What’s the big deal about going to a doctor a couple of times a year and getting a prescription? That’s what I do.

Why should we have to? Why should I have to ask someone else, and pay them, for permission to put something into my own body? And the people who make the laws that dictate what I can and cannot take often have no more medical knowledge than what I scoop out of the cat box. J — Tonight we’re going to party like it’s 1899. Remove the X to email me.

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Vigara is not scheduled, but Meridia is (not that it should be, but that’s another post). I wondered why I see Viagra offered everywhere, and not Meridia.  That explains it. Do you have any idea why Meridia is scheduled?  It isn’t addictive, is it?

Another reason you don’t see Meridia everywhere is that it’s expensive, and not a very effective drug. It’s scheduled, because there is no anorectic drug with any CNS stimulating qualities at all which the FDA will approve without scheduling it. Meridia isn’t that different than Effexor and Wellbutrin which aren’t scheduled. Per Glen Rickards’ post, Meridia isn’t all that similar to fenflruamine. Fen both releases and inhibits the reuptake of serotonin, Meridia is just a serotonin uptake inhibitor. It also works on norepinephrine. Barbara Barbara Hirsch, Publisher Obesity Meds and Research News OMR Web Site: http://www.obesity-news.com

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I have heard, but have not independently verified, that Meridia is chemically similar to fenfluramine. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Vigara is not scheduled, but Meridia is (not that it should be, but that’s another post). I wondered why I see Viagra offered everywhere, and not Meridia.  That explains it. Do you have any idea why Meridia is scheduled?  It isn’t addictive, is it? AB

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Vigara is not scheduled, but Meridia is (not that it should be, but that’s another post).

I wondered why I see Viagra offered everywhere, and not Meridia.  That explains it. Do you have any idea why Meridia is scheduled?  It isn’t addictive, is it? AB

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Yes, that is exactly what I am looking for. Meridia totally online. Viagra is available through www.Focus-Medical.com

It is not wise to get medications without an exam (especially the first time), and it is questionable whether it is legal. Very few doctors would be willing to prescribe schedule 4 drugs without seeing patients first, since the physician must submit his DEA identification number with each prescription. If the DEA sees irregularities it can rip the license. Now the DEA isn’t going to know whether a doctor sees the patient or not by the prescription, but if a doctor is prescribing huge amounts of a drug, that could trigger an investigation. Then if the DEA investigates and finds irregularities in records, the doctor has a problem. Vigara is not scheduled, but Meridia is (not that it should be, but that’s another post). The only doctor I’m aware of who ever prescribed drugs on-line is now undergoing a DEA investigation after a raid on his office last year. And he doesn’t prescribe Meridia anyway. Most states have regulations allowing doctors to prescribe without seeing a patient, but the intent of the law is so that a physician can prescribe something to an existing patient who for one reason or another cannot come into the office. The intent of the law is not for doctors to become "drug stores", for writing a prescription for a fee. My guess is that states will begin clarifying their laws, and the DEA case mentioned above will probably bring some direction as well. What’s the big deal about going to a doctor a couple of times a year and getting a prescription? That’s what I do. I’ve been taking phentermine for over two years, so there probably wouldn’t be any danger if my doctor didn’t see me. But I still think it’s worth it to get checked out once in a while. Barbara Barbara Hirsch, Publisher Obesity Meds and Research News OMR Web Site: http://www.obesity-news.com

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Yes, that is exactly what I am looking for. Meridia totally online. Viagra is available through www.Focus-Medical.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think what they are looking for is a doctor that will give them a script after a phone consulation. I saw a news story on people getting viagra this way, they find these places on the net, they call and talk to a doc, or maybe they call you, ask you a few questions and then give you a ’script. without ever seeing a doc in person. and it’s all perfectly legal. Tricia C. 322/276/159   (new scale –adjusted numbers) 46 lbs lost on Atkins since May 26, 1998 <<I am looking for an online source for a prescription and fill for Meridia. I have been told that Viagra is available online with a Doctors consultation and a prescription. I am looking for the same service for Meridia. Thanks **Well..if you had a doctors consultation..wouldnt you have a doctors perscription..??** Just Me,  Lisa. "I’m not fat..I’m big boned!" -Eric Cartman- *SouthPark* PCOS the silent Disease << http://www.pcosupport.org

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I think what they are looking for is a doctor that will give them a script after a phone consulation. I saw a news story on people getting viagra this way, they find these places on the net, they call and talk to a doc, or maybe they call you, ask you a few questions and then give you a ’script. without ever seeing a doc in person. and it’s all perfectly legal. Tricia C. 322/276/159   (new scale –adjusted numbers) 46 lbs lost on Atkins since May 26, 1998 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <<I am looking for an online source for a prescription and fill for Meridia. I have been told that Viagra is available online with a Doctors consultation and a prescription. I am looking for the same service for Meridia. Thanks **Well..if you had a doctors consultation..wouldnt you have a doctors perscription..??** Just Me,  Lisa. "I’m not fat..I’m big boned!" -Eric Cartman- *SouthPark* PCOS the silent Disease << http://www.pcosupport.org

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<<I am looking for an online source for a prescription and fill for Meridia. I have been told that Viagra is available online with a Doctors consultation and a prescription. I am looking for the same service for Meridia. Thanks **Well..if you had a doctors consultation..wouldnt you have a doctors perscription..??** Just Me,  Lisa. "I’m not fat..I’m big boned!" -Eric Cartman- *SouthPark* PCOS the silent Disease << http://www.pcosupport.org

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I am looking for an online source for a prescription and fill for Meridia. I have been told that Viagra is available online with a Doctors consultation and a prescription. I am looking for the same service for Meridia. Thanks

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The antidepressant venlafaxine (Effexor) is similar in its pharmacology to Meridia, yet it isn’t scheduled.  The antidepressant bupropion Wellbutrin) is arguably more of a "stimulant" than sibutramine, yet isn’t scheduled.  (I’m not arguing that either *should* be, of course.) Both butorphanol (Stadol) and tramadol (Ultram) are so-called "non-narcotic" analgesics which can cause dependence and abuse, yet they aren’t scheduled.  It’s clear that an indication of obesity is enough of a bogeyman to the DEA that they’ll schedule first and worry about it later.

A couple of corrections, here.  In two states, Wellbutrin (bupropion), in its regular release form (not SR or the Zyban formulation), IS scheduled, the equiavlent of Schedule IV (Utah & Washington states).  The reason Ultram & Stadol aren’t scheduled because the formulations have such strong narcotic antagonist properties (give either to an opiate/opioid addict and watch them go into withdrawal). Basically, Meridia is schedule IV for the same reason Redux was — because somewhere someone mentioned that these drugs are essentially amphetamine deriviatives, and the FDA/DEA has it’s standard reaction – over-regulation. Of course, if you look at the federal schedules, you’ll see a much stronger trend toward controlling stimulants that depressants (Morphine notwithstanding).  I mean we’ve got drugs like Valium at Schedule IV, but a useful stimulant like phentermine at schedule III.  Typical. I think most of this will become academic in the next five years as the newer anti-obsesity drugs come out that have absolutely no relationship to stimulants or any stimulant activity.  Zenical, and it’s close relatives merely change the way fat is processed in the body, so hopefully access to these drugs won’t be limited by unnecessary regulation. — Rob Bowling, PharmD      (and Meridia patient)

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I had written that I had seen a report indicating CHEMICAL similarity between fen and Meridia.  You appear to be talking about differences in the pharmacological effect.  Chemical similarity doesn’t always imply identical pharmacology, but rather, relates to the structure and composition of the molecule.

Well, sibutramine is not particularly chemically similar to fenfluramine. — Steve Dyer

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I had written that I had seen a report indicating CHEMICAL similarity between fen and Meridia.  You appear to be talking about differences in the pharmacological effect.  Chemical similarity doesn’t always imply identical pharmacology, but rather, relates to the structure and composition of the molecule. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Per Glen Rickards’ post, Meridia isn’t all that similar to fenflruamine. Fen both releases and inhibits the reuptake of serotonin, Meridia is just a serotonin uptake inhibitor. It also works on norepinephrine. Barbara Barbara Hirsch, Publisher Obesity Meds and Research News OMR Web Site: http://www.obesity-news.com

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There’s no evidence that sibutramine has any abuse potential, but the fact that it is psychoactive and that it has (in some individuals) somewhat of a stimulating action AND that it is prescribed for obesity, was enough for the DEA to classify it as C-IV.

What does psychoactive mean, exactly?  When I hear the word I think of LSD, or similar drugs, but it must have a broader definition. AB

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        Just a couple of corrections to your corrections                 Stadol IS scheduled (C-IV). That’s correct.  But this is relatively recent, so I can be excused for having old information. In fact, my original comments which this guy tried to correct were made a while ago; I didn’t see his article in the newsgroup.     Speaking of Stadol, the mixed agonist/antagonist dezocine (Dalgan) is not     scheduled at all, and it is the most morphine-like (highest mu-opioid     activity) of any of the mixed agonist-antagonists.  Dezocine makes Stadol     look like Tylenol. Stadol would never have been scheduled if it hadn’t been made available in a non-injected dosage form (nasal spray) which caused it to be prescribed more widely than it had been been in the previous 15 years.  Mixed agonist/antagonists which must be injected are almost by definition rarely misused, because they’re infrequently found outside hospitals, and the population of outpatients prescribed them is very small. There’s nothing like lack of use to promote lack of abuse.  I’m sure that dezocine follows this same pattern. In fact, the whole idea of a mixed agonist/antagonist being less abusable than, say, codeine, a C-II drug, is a thoroughly discredited 1960’s-era notion.  But it lives on in the current DEA schedules (only recently has this caught up to Stadol, but only after hoardes of formerly respectable people prescribed the drug started to like it a bit too much.)     The scheduling of Meridia, which has absolutely no abuse potential (or IMO     any effect at all, for that matter) is really hysterical, especially in     light of the fact that it’s pharmacodynamically identical to venlafaxine. Which shows you just how much the DEA cares about pharmacology.     What amazes me is how little is understood about     bupropion’s mechanism even after years of research. Yup.  And I’m astonished that any state would think of placing it under any controls at all.  It really doesn’t have any abuse potential.   Since this is a weight loss med newsgroup, it’s probably worth pointing out   that bupropion causes anorexia and weight loss in a pretty high percentage   of subjects.  It’s actually vastly superior to sibutramine or venlafaxine in   this regard. I’ve tried it, and really didn’t notice any anorectic effect worth getting excited over.  The ones who lose their appetite on bupropion are usually 95 lb. grandmothers, not those of us who would benefit from such an effect!    BTW, Ultram is not an antagonist.  Both tramadol and its primary metabolite    are pure, albeit weak, agonists. Correct.  This guy is a Pharm. D.? — Steve Dyer

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Since this is a weight loss med newsgroup, it’s probably worth pointing out that bupropion causes anorexia and weight loss in a pretty high percentage of subjects.  It’s actually vastly superior to sibutramine or venlafaxine in this regard.

Hmmm, that would explain why I didn’t have the urge to stuff my face when I was using Zyban to quit smoking.  In fact, some folks I know even lost weight while quitting smoking on Zyban. Of course, once I went off of it, my weight started going up rapidly … — KC 196/189 (again)/135 Eating smarter since 8/8/98 — exercising since 9/15/98 (reduced calorie/reduced fat/increased protein/low-glycemic/high-fiber/vegetarian WOE)

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The scheduling of Meridia, which has absolutely no abuse potential (or IMO any effect at all, for that matter) is really hysterical, especially in light of the fact that it’s pharmacodynamically identical to venlafaxine.

A few people have commented on their weight loss success using Effexor. Does the above statement indicate that someone who’s tried Meridia and not seen any effect would not benefit from Effexor either?

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Just a couple of corrections to your corrections Stadol IS scheduled (C-IV).  Phentermine is C-IV, not C-III.  C-III anorexiants include phendimetrazine and benzphetamine, which are rarely prescribed.  Both are more effective than phentermine. Speaking of Stadol, the mixed agonist/antagonist dezocine (Dalgan) is not scheduled at all, and it is the most morphine-like (highest mu-opioid activity) of any of the mixed agonist-antagonists.  Dezocine makes Stadol look like Tylenol. The scheduling of Meridia, which has absolutely no abuse potential (or IMO any effect at all, for that matter) is really hysterical, especially in light of the fact that it’s pharmacodynamically identical to venlafaxine. With respect to bupropion (Wellbutrin), even though animal models intended to screen for "abusability" (self-administration, drug discrimination, etc.) show that it has this property, in humans, it doesn’t seem to have that effect.  In blind studies comparing 30 mg d-amphetamine, 200 mg bupropion (immediate release), and placebo, experienced stimulant abusers could not distinguish bupropion from placebo, while they reliably picked d-amphetamine every time.  The structural similarity to diethylpropion is well known, but bupropion apparently does not provoke transmitter release as amphetamine analogs generally do.  What amazes me is how little is understood about bupropion’s mechanism even after years of research. Since this is a weight loss med newsgroup, it’s probably worth pointing out that bupropion causes anorexia and weight loss in a pretty high percentage of subjects.  It’s actually vastly superior to sibutramine or venlafaxine in this regard. BTW, Ultram is not an antagonist.  Both tramadol and its primary metabolite are pure, albeit weak, agonists.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The antidepressant venlafaxine (Effexor) is similar in its pharmacology to Meridia, yet it isn’t scheduled.  The antidepressant bupropion Wellbutrin) is arguably more of a "stimulant" than sibutramine, yet isn’t scheduled.  (I’m not arguing that either *should* be, of course.) Both butorphanol (Stadol) and tramadol (Ultram) are so-called "non-narcotic" analgesics which can cause dependence and abuse, yet they aren’t scheduled.  It’s clear that an indication of obesity is enough of a bogeyman to the DEA that they’ll schedule first and worry about it later. A couple of corrections, here. In two states, Wellbutrin (bupropion), in its regular release form (not SR or the Zyban formulation), IS scheduled, the equiavlent of Schedule IV (Utah & Washington states).  The reason Ultram & Stadol aren’t scheduled because the formulations have such strong narcotic antagonist properties (give either to an opiate/opioid addict and watch them go into withdrawal). Basically, Meridia is schedule IV for the same reason Redux was — because somewhere someone mentioned that these drugs are essentially amphetamine deriviatives, and the FDA/DEA has it’s standard reaction – over-regulation. Of course, if you look at the federal schedules, you’ll see a much stronger trend toward controlling stimulants that depressants (Morphine notwithstanding).  I mean we’ve got drugs like Valium at Schedule IV, but a useful stimulant like phentermine at schedule III.  Typical. I think most of this will become academic in the next five years as the newer anti-obsesity drugs come out that have absolutely no relationship to stimulants or any stimulant activity.  Zenical, and it’s close relatives merely change the way fat is processed in the body, so hopefully access to these drugs won’t be limited by unnecessary regulation. — Rob Bowling, PharmD     (and Meridia patient)

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Question:

I was put on Buspar (worked up to 30mg/day) in March of this year.  I never saw any significant change in my anxiety or PAs since so in Sept. I decided to ween myself off (my doctor said okay) of it.  Has Buspar helped anyone in any way? The only thing I found that it helped was my migraine headaches.  They seemed to decline amazingly while on it, but I really can’t be sure that it wasn’t related to something else.  Thanks!

Response:

I recently started taking Buspar after a very bad experience with Prozac.  I’ve tried other meds like Paxil, Zoloft, Effexor, and even St. John’s Wort. Nothing worked to get rid of my headaches or took me out of a withdrawn state (if anyone reads this, have you ever felt like you were in a fog, couldn’t concentrate, and just lost the "zest", if so, tell me about it.) So far my 10mgs/day of Buspar seems to be helping but it really has only been less than a week…any advice?

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