Question:

Dear Joan, I am a Candida biologist. Candida albicans, a dimorphic fungus with yeast and hyphal (like other fungi) phases, is the major causative agent of thrush, followed by some other Candida species. WHile all organisms grow on sugars, Candida albicans thrives well on serum (which does have glucose in it of course as well) and on human tissues. Indeed if you stop cells from making the hyphal form, they are no longer infective. Serum in the absence of added sugars, promotes this invasive hyphal form. I think adding more sugar may stimulate the yeast form a bit-( hmm I never tried that experiment – adding more glucose to the serum plates). Candida is not like bakers yeast, and bakers yeast does not encourage the growth of Candida albicans. You can also consume sugar in normal quantities (if you’re not diaetic of course). The books that deal with candida cleansing diets are not supported by scientific studies. The scientific Candida community has analysed the theories and treatments proposed in these books (diets and the claims they make) They are unfounded. I have looked the studies up on medline myself- and I see that the authors of several books on the subject have made huge assumptions based on very very little data, and actually have thwarted the truth. A complete if not outdated book on Candida infections which even reviews the book "the yeast connection" is "Candida and Candidosis: A review and bibliography" (1989-I think) by FC Odds who was at Leeds in the UK for many years and is now at Jaansen (ie also own J&J) in belgium. He refuses to write a new edition. But his book  remains the most complete and unbiased medical book on the subject. It is out of print. I do have a photocopy of it, or libraries should be able to get you a copy. Medical Schools should have a copy or access to one. Every single study on Candida up to the pub. date is covered in that book- very factual. I have looked over all of the alternative suggestions proposed on this thread. None of them have proven to my knowledge. Definitely do not use any mouthwashs or treatments that kill the bacteria in you mouth. The bacteria help you to fight off thrush.  Gingivitiis is bacterial in origin- do not use washes that treat this. I even asked my pharmacist to confirm this when I had recurrent thrush. Lots of healthy garlic has been shown to kill candida and bacteria- but yikes (yes the scientific community acknowkedges this)- but actualy the studies are in vitro. No proof that consuming garlic helps -to my knowledge. Unfortunately, steroid inhalers I believe affect the same immune cells in the mouth that keep Candida at bay.  I had to switch from flovent (a stronger steroid) to azmacort (which does not work as well for me). Fungal infections are stubborn. 1) you want to treat the underlying cause if possible causes can include: being on antibiotics, diabetes immune disorders (i.e.AIDS) treatment with immunosuppressive agents (ie. us asthmatics) Chemotherapy dentures 2) You need to stick to the antifungal treatment until the thrush clears up, and also solve the underlying cause or it will just recur.  Why? The antifungals being used, do not kill the candida too well, but do stop them from growing (they can’t make their cell membranes). There may be some nongrowing cells that stick around and thus the infection can recur. You need to make sure those immune cells in the mouth are ok. So rinsing with water and using a spacer are critical with the steroid inhalers. Good Luck! Chilla ps. you could also have a drug resisitant strain of candida in your mouth . You could try other classes of antifungals. Nystatin vs. the azoles (like clortrimazole). These belong to different chemical classes

Response:

I didn’t intend to sound critical.  Just wanted to add to the pool of information.   SJ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Cleaning your inhalation paraphenalia is important but not enough, supplimenting that with scrupulous oral hygiene is at least as or more important.  Ask your doctor to prescribe "Chlorhexidine Gluconate" (oral rinse), generally prescribed by dentists for treating gingivititus and other infectious oral abnormalities, use both before and after inhaling meds.   Be aware, though, of the following information on the chlorhexidine box: "Chlorhexidine Gluconate Oral Rinse may cause some tooth discoloration, or increases in tarter (calculus) formation, particularly in areas where stain and tartar usually form.  It is important to see your dentist for removal of any stain or tartar at least every six months, or more frequently if your dentist advises." "Both stain and tartar can be removed by your dentist or hygientist. Chlorhexidine gluconate may cause permanent discoloration of some front-tooth fillings." I noticed definite tooth staining and filling discoloration after using it once a day for 2 weeks. SR That’s why I suggested frequent brushing and flossing, particularly with the Sensonic.  I’ve been adhereing to the aformentioned regimen for more than 3 years now, with no indication of out of the ordinary staining… and of course Clorhexidine gluconate, like any other prescription drug, would be used under the supervison of a physician, with all the same admonishments about reporting back immediately when any adverse conditions begin to occur.  Clorohexidine gluconate works for me, besides, it’s only a suggestion.   Sheldon On a recent Night Court rerun, Judge Harry Stone had a wonderful line: "I try to keep an open mind, but not so open that my brains fall out."

Response:

joan, i don’t know of anything else that you can take that would help prevent thrush. I do have a lot of patients on prednisone and steroid inhalers, but i have not seen as much problem with thrush as it is in your case. Just make sure that you don’t have diabetes or steroid induced hyperglycemia (elevated blood sugars). yatin j patel md http://md4lungs.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is there any remedy for thrush other than prescriptions like Mycelex or Nystatin? Does acidophilus really act as a preventative? I use a spacer with my inhaled Flovent and I rinse faithfully but keep getting thrush over and over again. Somebody must be buying a lot of acidophilus for some reason as even the pharmacies in my area are out of it. I am on Prednisone now, and I know it’s only a matter of days before I will have thrush once again. Can anybody offer any suggestions? If not, I guess it’s back to the doctor for another prescription drug. Joan

– Yatin J Patel MD http://md4lungs.com If you have asthma, this is your home. Join Dr. Patel every wednesday 7 PM Indiana Time for online chats. Before you buy.

Response:

* also try and keep your sugar and yeast intake as low as possible.. these help grow the yeast.

I do not think that this is accurate. It’s a terrible responsibility – but somebody has to be the Americans.

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I had thrush and my doctor told me that it was probably a result of the inhaled steroids rather than oral (I was on flovent too.)  What you need to do is rinse your mouth and throat after using your inhaler so the steroid is not sticking to the membranes in your mouth. Hope this helps. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is there any remedy for thrush other than prescriptions like Mycelex or Nystatin? Does acidophilus really act as a preventative? I use a spacer with my inhaled Flovent and I rinse faithfully but keep getting thrush over and over again. Somebody must be buying a lot of acidophilus for some reason as even the pharmacies in my area are out of it. I am on Prednisone now, and I know it’s only a matter of days before I will have thrush once again. Can anybody offer any suggestions? If not, I guess it’s back to the doctor for another prescription drug. Joan

Response:

i work in a health food store, and have tried a few natural remidies…(with all the other prescriptions i’m on, i don’t want another!) here are a few suggestions that i have found to work.. *Acidophilus.. i prefer PB8 but any with 10 billion or more active cultures is good *gargling with tea tree oil mouthwash or vinegar and water.. i actually do both sometimes, after i use my inhalers and after i brush my teeth. * also try and keep your sugar and yeast intake as low as possible.. these help grow the yeast.  these are more preventitive than a cure… but i have found that it does help, i have very infrequent problems now instead of every month or so… good luck!

Response:

Cleaning your inhalation paraphenalia is important but not enough, supplimenting that with scrupulous oral hygiene is at least as or more important.  Ask your doctor to prescribe "Chlorhexidine Gluconate" (oral rinse), generally prescribed by dentists for treating gingivititus and other infectious oral abnormalities, use both before and after inhaling meds.  

Be aware, though, of the following information on the chlorhexidine box: "Chlorhexidine Gluconate Oral Rinse may cause some tooth discoloration, or increases in tarter (calculus) formation, particularly in areas where stain and tartar usually form.  It is important to see your dentist for removal of any stain or tartar at least every six months, or more frequently if your dentist advises." "Both stain and tartar can be removed by your dentist or hygientist. Chlorhexidine gluconate may cause permanent discoloration of some front-tooth fillings." I noticed definite tooth staining and filling discoloration after using it once a day for 2 weeks. SR

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Cleaning your inhalation paraphenalia is important but not enough, supplimenting that with scrupulous oral hygiene is at least as or more important.  Ask your doctor to prescribe "Chlorhexidine Gluconate" (oral rinse), generally prescribed by dentists for treating gingivititus and other infectious oral abnormalities, use both before and after inhaling meds.   Be aware, though, of the following information on the chlorhexidine box: "Chlorhexidine Gluconate Oral Rinse may cause some tooth discoloration, or increases in tarter (calculus) formation, particularly in areas where stain and tartar usually form.  It is important to see your dentist for removal of any stain or tartar at least every six months, or more frequently if your dentist advises." "Both stain and tartar can be removed by your dentist or hygientist. Chlorhexidine gluconate may cause permanent discoloration of some front-tooth fillings." I noticed definite tooth staining and filling discoloration after using it once a day for 2 weeks. SR

That’s why I suggested frequent brushing and flossing, particularly with the Sensonic.  I’ve been adhereing to the aformentioned regimen for more than 3 years now, with no indication of out of the ordinary staining… and of course Clorhexidine gluconate, like any other prescription drug, would be used under the supervison of a physician, with all the same admonishments about reporting back immediately when any adverse conditions begin to occur.  Clorohexidine gluconate works for me, besides, it’s only a suggestion.   Sheldon On a recent Night Court rerun, Judge Harry Stone had a wonderful line: "I try to keep an open mind, but not so open that my brains fall out."

Response:

I’m just guessing here but would yogurt (With live cultures) help?  How about a vinegar and water mouthwash?  Just trying to remember what the natural remedies for yeast problems are. While they don’t usually work well as a cure, maybe as a preventive? Jo An Firey * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

Is there any remedy for thrush other than prescriptions like Mycelex or Nystatin? Does acidophilus really act as a preventative? I use a spacer with my inhaled Flovent and I rinse faithfully but keep getting thrush over and over again. Somebody must be buying a lot of acidophilus for some reason as even the pharmacies in my area are out of it. I am on Prednisone now, and I know it’s only a matter of days before I will have thrush once again. Can anybody offer any suggestions? If not, I guess it’s back to the doctor for another prescription drug.

Cleaning your inhalation paraphenalia is important but not enough, supplimenting that with scrupulous oral hygiene is at least as or more important.  Ask your doctor to prescribe "Chlorhexidine Gluconate" (oral rinse), generally prescribed by dentists for treating gingivititus and other infectious oral abnormalities, use both before and after inhaling meds.  Also, Colgate Palmolive’s "Peroxyl" (nonprescription) is a very good oral antiseptic, with the benefit of being pleasant-tasting, especially effective when used right before bedtime, after you’re brushed and flossed.  You might also want to seriously consider treating yourself to Teledyne Water Pik’s "SENSONIC" tooth brush, an excellent product, leagues ahead of any ordinary toothbrush, even the other mundane electric toothbrushes. I used to really suffer with constant bouts of thrush but no more after adopting the above regimen, a much better alternative to guzzling liter after liter of Nystatin, BLECH! Sheldon On a recent Night Court rerun, Judge Harry Stone had a wonderful line: "I try to keep an open mind, but not so open that my brains fall out."

Response:

Is there any remedy for thrush other than prescriptions like Mycelex or Nystatin? Does acidophilus really act as a preventative? I use a spacer with my inhaled Flovent and I rinse faithfully but keep getting thrush over and over again. Somebody must be buying a lot of acidophilus for some reason as even the pharmacies in my area are out of it. I am on Prednisone now, and I know it’s only a matter of days before I will have thrush once again. Can anybody offer any suggestions? If not, I guess it’s back to the doctor for another prescription drug. Joan

Response:

Question:

My doc put me on a new inhaler called SereVent. Any experience out there (positive or negative) with this drug? I have done some research on it but I would also be interested in personal experiences. Thanks. Janet

Janet,    Most importantly, remember that serevent is not a resuce med…If you are having trouble right now use albuterol.  Serevent is a long term med use it twice a day….say 7a-7p.  Some meds givwe some people nightmares…funny, but I have nightmares if I take my multivitamin before bed!?   Never skip your serevent even if you are feeling good.  This also goes for any inhaled steroids you are taking…Steroids (inhaled) take a couple of weeks to build up in the body…so never skip your inhaled steroids! bill

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I’ve been using Serevent for about 2 years and it’s enabled me to cut out Ventolin almost totally. Initially it gave me cramps in my feet- still does occasionally and I’ve noticed my eyesight has deteriorated (need to use glasses for reading larger print than before) but this may have happened anyway. I would give this drug 9.9 marks out of 10! As someone else mentioned you can use it early (borrow a puff ahead of next dose) if you feel your chest tightening and provided you are resting you will avoid need to use Ventolin as all will be well within 15 mins.

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I’ve used Serevent for around 6 months or so.  I personally think it is wonderful.  I take 2 puffs twice a day.  I used to use 2 inhalers of proventil a month, and now I barely need to use one.   I also take atrovent and proventil 2 puffs, 4 times a day, and flovent 2 puffs twice a day.  It all seems to work pretty good. My doc put me on a new inhaler called SereVent. Any experience out there

(positive or negative) with this drug? I have done some – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – research on it but I would also be interested in personal experiences. Thanks. Janet

Response:

I tried SereVent a couple of weeks ago.  Results were somewhat beneficial but the doctor had to take me off of it because it made me too shaky.  I was practically unable to do anything manipulative with my hands while I was on it.  The shakiness would last until about 10 hours after using it. Angela

This is a side effect some people have when initially prescribed the maximum dose of 2 puffs twice a day (of the MDI). Some of these people can build up a tolerance for it by starting at a reduced dose, eg 1 puff once/day in the evening. A dry powder form, the Serevent Diskus, has recently been approved by the FDA, expected to be available next year. The DPI form is twice the strength of the MDI form so you use 1 puff twice a day. See http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/97/09/22/glx_y0022_1.html Ellis

Response:

My doc put me on a new inhaler called SereVent. Any experience out there (positive or negative) with this drug? I have done some research on it but I would also be interested in personal experiences. Thanks. Janet

I love this stuff!  I will probably only take it during the winter, but it has helped even out my peak flow readings (they used to stay in the green area, but were all over the place, now they are very consistently within a 40 point range), it makes it so I don’t cough when I’m out in cold weather (2 block walk to campus was terrible, and getting from the edge of campus to my classes was worse) and I haven’t had nearly the number of side effects from it as I did from my rescue inhaler (MaxAir).  It’s kind of a pain to do 2 puffs twice a day from 2 different inhalers (I’ve started carrying it all in an insulated lunch bag), but if it means I don’t cough until I choke, I think I’ll put up with it. janet (so there *are* some other people out there named Janet –  I never knew anybody else with my name until about a year ago!)  :)

Response:

My doc put me on a new inhaler called SereVent. Any experience out there (positive or negative) with this drug? I have done some research on it but I would also be interested in personal experiences. Thanks. Janet

I have used Serevent before. It made me shaky for quite a while. Interestingly, the shorter acting Ventolin, a similar drug, does not affect me as badly. For prevention, I an on Flovent, and it lessens my need for bronchodilators like Serevent and Ventolin. Many have good experiences with Serevent, though, so if it works well and has little or no side effects, stick with it. Donald Hellen (Note: Anti-Spam Measure… remove the "1" in front of our address to reply by email.)

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I tried SereVent a couple of weeks ago.  Results were somewhat beneficial but the doctor had to take me off of it because it made me too shaky.  I was practically unable to do anything manipulative with my hands while I was on it. The shakiness would last until about 10 hours after using it. Angela

Try sticking with the Serevent for a few months.  Some people on this type of medication get over the shakiness after a while; I did (with Brethine, a tablet). — David Matthews, Boston University

Response:

I tried SereVent a couple of weeks ago.  Results were somewhat beneficial but the doctor had to take me off of it because it made me too shaky.  I was practically unable to do anything manipulative with my hands while I was on it.  The shakiness would last until about 10 hours after using it. Angela That which doesn’t break us makes us stronger.

Response:

My doc put me on a new inhaler called SereVent. Any experience out there (positive or negative) with this drug? I have done some research on it but I would also be interested in personal experiences. Thanks. Janet

It works very well for me. —                 Read about the new book from Brustas Consulting                     at  http://users.abac.com/pbrustas                 Computer Renaissance  8396 Parkway Drive                      La Mesa, CA  91942  (619) 464-3711

Response:

My doc put me on a new inhaler called SereVent. Any experience out there (positive or negative) with this drug? I have done some research on it but I would also be interested in personal experiences. Thanks. Janet

Janet, I love my Serevent inhaler!  I have been taking this medicine for a little over a year now, and my asthma has really improved with continued and concientious use (paired with Flovent 110).  I started noticing results in about one month.  I think I  like it so much because I don’t have to take the Proventil four times a day anymore. It was hard for me to meet that dosage and very inconvienient.  As always, pay attention to your own symptoms.  If you don’t notice a change, or if you feel like you are getting worse, call your doctor right away!  Good luck! We are each of us angels with only one wing. And we can only fly embracing each other.                    –Luciano De Creschenzo

Response:

I have used serevent now for nearly 2 years. It is brilliant, it works so well for me. It just enforces what your reliever does but it is active for about 12 hours. The only problem I have is that with the accuhaler you can taste it and it doesn’t taste too good but other than that it is great. I don’t know if you have been told, but it is worth using it before your preventer. Hope this helps. love Hannah – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My doc put me on a new inhaler called SereVent. Any experience out there (positive or negative) with this drug? I have done some research on it but I would also be interested in personal experiences. Thanks. Janet

Response:

My doc put me on a new inhaler called SereVent. Any experience out there (positive or negative) with this drug? I have done some research on it but I would also be interested in personal experiences. Thanks. Janet

It works great for me, 2 puffs twice a day. Initially I had to get my allergist to put in a special request to my HMO 3 years ago to get them to approve it–because of my nocturnal asthma. If I’m going folk dancing in the evening, I often take one of the 2 evening puffs early, it works for exercise too, takes about 15 min to start taking effect. However the max dose is 4 puffs/day, so if I need more bronchodilation, I use Ventolin. The only side effects I noticed, initially I seemed to have nightmares if I used it just before going to bed, but it was OK if I used it at least 2 hr before. After a couple months that phenomenon went away. I also use Vanceril DS 2 pf x2, Intal and TheoDur 200mg x2. I just recently added the TheoDur back in. It seems to give better overall control. Ellis

Response:

My doc put me on a new inhaler called SereVent. Any experience out there (positive or negative) with this drug? I have done some research on it but I would also be interested in personal experiences. Thanks. Janet

Response:

Question:

My wife has been diagnosed as asthmatic. She thinks that she may have had her attack due to the use of NSAID’s (including asparin). A webpage suggests that the treatment for asparin induced asthma is different to the normal treatment. She is not responding well to normal treatment so if anyone knows what the treatment is for asparin induced asthma we would appreciate the help. Thank you.  Drew.

Response:

I get asthma from all NSAIDS, including aspirin, ibuprophen, ponstan, etc.  My asthma is not controlled differently than anyone elses, I just have to avoid all NSAIDS and products containing them.  I take Flovent 125mcg, Serevent, and Ventolin.  Singulair did nothing for me, but it works wonders for other people especially those with allergies from what I have read.  Good luck! Meghan Before you buy.

Response:

Aspirin induces asthma in about 10% of asthmatics. About 10% of those will also react to other NSAIDS such as Motirn/ Advil/ Aleve/ ibuprofen/ etc. (Lucky me – in the top 1% again !) The treatment is not entirely different. As in all asthmatics exposures should be eliminated, in this case only take Tylenol and narcotics for pain. One difference is that the leukotriene inhibitors such as Singulair and Accolate seem to be particularly effective in aspirin sensitive asthmatics so this may be worth a try. If that doesn’t work it should be back to the drawing board by confirming the diagnosis if in doubt and looking for other triggers such as chemicals, allergy, reflux, and sinus problems. — CBI, M.D. Please note: It is impossible to accurately diagnose medical problems without seeing the patient and reviewing the entire history. These posts are intended to be helpful and informative. Always check with your doctor before following any advice given.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My wife has been diagnosed as asthmatic. She thinks that she may have had her attack due to the use of NSAID’s (including asparin). A webpage suggests that the treatment for asparin induced asthma is different to the normal treatment. She is not responding well to normal treatment so if anyone knows what the treatment is for asparin induced asthma we would appreciate the help. Thank you.  Drew.

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Question:

(I asked this question a few days ago but it was buried in a longer post and I received no responses here.) I’d like to know what those of you who take both Singulair and Allegra/Claritin/Zyrtec do in terms of timing your medications – do you take them together or have you found it more effective to stagger them? I just added Singulair to my regime. Since they treat different things related to allergies, I expect it wouldn’t make much, if any, difference, but I’m curious to know if it has made a difference for anyone here.  I have HEPA filters in my home therefore fewer problems with allergies overnight than during the day, so I’m currently taking both Singulair and Allegra/180 when I get up in the morning in order to have maximum effect when I’m out of the house during the day. Thanks in advance. -S-

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (I asked this question a few days ago but it was buried in a longer post and I received no responses here.) I’d like to know what those of you who take both Singulair and Allegra/Claritin/Zyrtec do in terms of timing your medications – do you take them together or have you found it more effective to stagger them? I just added Singulair to my regime. Since they treat different things related to allergies, I expect it wouldn’t make much, if any, difference, but I’m curious to know if it has made a difference for anyone here.  I have HEPA filters in my home therefore fewer problems with allergies overnight than during the day, so I’m currently taking both Singulair and Allegra/180 when I get up in the morning in order to have maximum effect when I’m out of the house during the day. Thanks in advance. -S-

A side-effect of Singulair can be weird, vivid dreams.  Because of this some people have posted saying they have started taking the Singulair in the morning.

Response:

A study presented at the latest AAAI meeting indicated that if you were on Singulair, you no longer need Claritin. My own personal experience though was when I tried to go without Zyrtec, the sneezing fits I had under control returned. My internet buddy in Texas has also returned to using both.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (I asked this question a few days ago but it was buried in a longer post and I received no responses here.) I’d like to know what those of you who take both Singulair and Allegra/Claritin/Zyrtec do in terms of timing your medications – do you take them together or have you found it more effective to stagger them? I just added Singulair to my regime. Since they treat different things related to allergies, I expect it wouldn’t make much, if any, difference, but I’m curious to know if it has made a difference for anyone here.  I have HEPA filters in my home therefore fewer problems with allergies overnight than during the day, so I’m currently taking both Singulair and Allegra/180 when I get up in the morning in order to have maximum effect when I’m out of the house during the day. Thanks in advance. -S-

Response:

Mabye it’s just psychosomatic (sp?), but when I take Claritin my allergy problems clear up, and I take Singulair every night.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A study presented at the latest AAAI meeting indicated that if you were on Singulair, you no longer need Claritin. My own personal experience though was when I tried to go without Zyrtec, the sneezing fits I had under control returned. My internet buddy in Texas has also returned to using both. (I asked this question a few days ago but it was buried in a longer post and I received no responses here.) I’d like to know what those of you who take both Singulair and Allegra/Claritin/Zyrtec do in terms of timing your medications – do you take them together or have you found it more effective to stagger them? I just added Singulair to my regime. Since they treat different things related to allergies, I expect it wouldn’t make much, if any, difference, but I’m curious to know if it has made a difference for anyone here.  I have HEPA filters in my home therefore fewer problems with allergies overnight than during the day, so I’m currently taking both Singulair and Allegra/180 when I get up in the morning in order to have maximum effect when I’m out of the house during the day. Thanks in advance. -S-

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Question:

I haven’t logged on in long time and I’m trying to catch up. I would like to know if people have had difficulty weaning themselves from Pulmicort Turbohaler, especially at the 800 mcg/day or higher dosage. I would also appreciate hearing from folks who have received significant therapeutic benefits from switching from the old Serevent to the new propellant-free Serevent. Thanks

Response:

Don’t know about effects, but it is supposed to work better..get more meds in. My daughter switched and loves it because she gets no residue, no need for aerochamber.

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Question:

Hi Gang,      Seeking help for clostraphobia/anxiety. I really dont know which one it is. This condition most certainly affects my fuction in my job and I can use all the help I can get.      When I wore a younger mans clothes, I had no anxiety and no clostraphobia.  I have crawled through 2500 degree heat,pulling a hose and wearing 75lbs of extra gear.  I have noticed that on odd occasions I find it hard to even be inside the glass cube of a stand up shower.     It doesnt happen all the time, but I fear it will happen at the wrong time and it will get either the person I am with or myself killed.     I think its anxiety related because I can be asleep dreaming of people in my past who I have either bonded with and/or I have lost contact with and I get a very sad feeling then it jumps into clostraphobia, so bad that I even feel trapped in my own bedroom and have to exit the room to gain relief.  Sometimes it is so bad that I have to exit the entire house to get relief.   I never use to be this way, I have been trapped by fallen debris in a fire and had to be dug out and never had any clostraphobia until the past few years.     I feel I am a liability and intentionally try to place myself on the exterior either pumping the engine or doing some other exterior fireground work.    Is it my advancing years? What would place a phobia like that where there never existed one before?    I have been thinking about talking with my gp about it and see if zoloft,xanax or something would be a road to peace for me.   Please help.  Has anyone else ever had these types of feelings? If so, how do I deal with it?                 Thanks in advance for sharing                     your thoughts.                     Jay

Response:

Jay, you would be very wise to talk with a psychiatry professional about this – it’s not uncommon for people to have thoughts like this and it’s really not about their age, it can happen any time.  There is some research that elderly people can have some compromises in their serotonin system, but I’m assuming if you are a firefighter you are not "elderly".  Unfortunately anxiety disorder situations, just like many other illnesses, do not discriminate and can mess with anybody.  Based on what you said, it definitely sounds like it is an anxiety thing.  It is very manageable as long as you keep an open mind and talk openly with treatment people about what you’re thinking.  People who initially talk with mental health professionals very often do not want to disclose things for fear of being judged or any number of other esoteric reasons, but it is SO counterproductive to do that – tell the person what is on your mind if you get a sense that they’re safe to talk to.  If you don’t get that sense, politely get through the interview and find another one; remember you are creating a relationship with another person by involving yourself with a psych dr. or a therapist so if the "fit" isn’t right, it’s ok, they know this happens all the time.  A GP treatment scenario is often well-intentioned but that person just doesn’t have the experience in dealing with the many subtle aspects of these types of problems that a psych specialist would. Gary – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Gang,     Seeking help for clostraphobia/anxiety. I really dont know which one it is. This condition most certainly affects my fuction in my job and I can use all the help I can get.     When I wore a younger mans clothes, I had no anxiety and no clostraphobia.  I have crawled through 2500 degree heat,pulling a hose and wearing 75lbs of extra gear.  I have noticed that on odd occasions I find it hard to even be inside the glass cube of a stand up shower.    It doesnt happen all the time, but I fear it will happen at the wrong time and it will get either the person I am with or myself killed.    I think its anxiety related because I can be asleep dreaming of people in my past who I have either bonded with and/or I have lost contact with and I get a very sad feeling then it jumps into clostraphobia, so bad that I even feel trapped in my own bedroom and have to exit the room to gain relief.  Sometimes it is so bad that I have to exit the entire house to get relief.  I never use to be this way, I have been trapped by fallen debris in a fire and had to be dug out and never had any clostraphobia until the past few years.    I feel I am a liability and intentionally try to place myself on the exterior either pumping the engine or doing some other exterior fireground work.   Is it my advancing years? What would place a phobia like that where there never existed one before?   I have been thinking about talking with my gp about it and see if zoloft,xanax or something would be a road to peace for me.  Please help.  Has anyone else ever had these types of feelings? If so, how do I deal with it?                Thanks in advance for sharing                    your thoughts.                    Jay

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Gang,      Seeking help for clostraphobia/anxiety. I really dont know which one it is. This condition most certainly affects my fuction in my job and I can use all the help I can get.      When I wore a younger mans clothes, I had no anxiety and no clostraphobia.  I have crawled through 2500 degree heat,pulling a hose and wearing 75lbs of extra gear.  I have noticed that on odd occasions I find it hard to even be inside the glass cube of a stand up shower.     It doesnt happen all the time, but I fear it will happen at the wrong time and it will get either the person I am with or myself killed.     I think its anxiety related because I can be asleep dreaming of people in my past who I have either bonded with and/or I have lost contact with and I get a very sad feeling then it jumps into clostraphobia, so bad that I even feel trapped in my own bedroom and have to exit the room to gain relief.  Sometimes it is so bad that I have to exit the entire house to get relief.   I never use to be this way, I have been trapped by fallen debris in a fire and had to be dug out and never had any clostraphobia until the past few years.     I feel I am a liability and intentionally try to place myself on the exterior either pumping the engine or doing some other exterior fireground work.    Is it my advancing years? What would place a phobia like that where there never existed one before?    I have been thinking about talking with my gp about it and see if zoloft,xanax or something would be a road to peace for me.   Please help.  Has anyone else ever had these types of feelings? If so, how do I deal with it?                 Thanks in advance for sharing                     your thoughts.                     Jay

Jay, it would be easy to say that you’ve just developed a stronger sense of danger as you’ve aged, but based on personal experience, age has nothing to do with it. I often had to put myself in very confined spaces for extended periods and had no problem doing it for many years. Until one day when i was trapped in a small room with one of the tradesmen. I began to feel uneasy and it quickly accelerated into panic. The carpenter HATED small places and was damn near losing it himself. Although we were in no danger and i knew we’d laugh about it later, i couldn’t control the frightened feeling.   That, out of my control confinement, was dreadful and having no idea where it came from was puzzling. One of my close friends is a psychiatrist, so i asked him what might be up. He wasn’t much help.    He offered drugs to control the anxiety, but couldn’t give a reason for the late / sudden development of the condition. I suspected fatigue, dehydration or low blood sugar. He agreed it could be any of those that had affected my brain chemistry, but still couldn’t explain the sudden onset or extreme nature of the sensation. Should you be able to find a therapist who can give you a good explanation, they may also be able to suggest treatment. Let us know please.    For now, i just stay out of tight places. Ma

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Hello Jay, – I was turned down for submarine duty in the Navy because it was felt that I may be phobic of enclosed places (sub-sailors are tested for this). Were it me, I would explain this to the fire chief an see what he advises. You have specific rights regarding such issues under the ADA and it may be felt you need to be assigned to specific work or, – medical retirement, depending on the cirsumstances. – K – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Gang,      Seeking help for clostraphobia/anxiety. I really dont know which one it is. This condition most certainly affects my fuction in my job and I can use all the help I can get.      When I wore a younger mans clothes, I had no anxiety and no clostraphobia.  I have crawled through 2500 degree heat,pulling a hose and wearing 75lbs of extra gear.  I have noticed that on odd occasions I find it hard to even be inside the glass cube of a stand up shower.     It doesnt happen all the time, but I fear it will happen at the wrong time and it will get either the person I am with or myself killed.     I think its anxiety related because I can be asleep dreaming of people in my past who I have either bonded with and/or I have lost contact with and I get a very sad feeling then it jumps into clostraphobia, so bad that I even feel trapped in my own bedroom and have to exit the room to gain relief.  Sometimes it is so bad that I have to exit the entire house to get relief.   I never use to be this way, I have been trapped by fallen debris in a fire and had to be dug out and never had any clostraphobia until the past few years.     I feel I am a liability and intentionally try to place myself on the exterior either pumping the engine or doing some other exterior fireground work.    Is it my advancing years? What would place a phobia like that where there never existed one before?    I have been thinking about talking with my gp about it and see if zoloft,xanax or something would be a road to peace for me.   Please help.  Has anyone else ever had these types of feelings? If so, how do I deal with it?                 Thanks in advance for sharing                     your thoughts.                     Jay

Response:

That is a very interesting and useful thing to know, which I had never considered – the ADA.  I think I need to take a good close look at that and will do so.  Appreciate your bringing that up. Gary

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello Jay, – I was turned down for submarine duty in the Navy because it was felt that I may be phobic of enclosed places (sub-sailors are tested for this). Were it me, I would explain this to the fire chief an see what he advises. You have specific rights regarding such issues under the ADA and it may be felt you need to be assigned to specific work or, – medical retirement, depending on the cirsumstances. – K Hi Gang,      Seeking help for clostraphobia/anxiety. I really dont know which one it is. This condition most certainly affects my fuction in my job and I can use all the help I can get.      When I wore a younger mans clothes, I had no anxiety and no clostraphobia.  I have crawled through 2500 degree heat,pulling a hose and wearing 75lbs of extra gear.  I have noticed that on odd occasions I find it hard to even be inside the glass cube of a stand up shower.     It doesnt happen all the time, but I fear it will happen at the wrong time and it will get either the person I am with or myself killed.     I think its anxiety related because I can be asleep dreaming of people in my past who I have either bonded with and/or I have lost contact with and I get a very sad feeling then it jumps into clostraphobia, so bad that I even feel trapped in my own bedroom and have to exit the room to gain relief.  Sometimes it is so bad that I have to exit the entire house to get relief.   I never use to be this way, I have been trapped by fallen debris in a fire and had to be dug out and never had any clostraphobia until the past few years.     I feel I am a liability and intentionally try to place myself on the exterior either pumping the engine or doing some other exterior fireground work.    Is it my advancing years? What would place a phobia like that where there never existed one before?    I have been thinking about talking with my gp about it and see if zoloft,xanax or something would be a road to peace for me.   Please help.  Has anyone else ever had these types of feelings? If so, how do I deal with it?                 Thanks in advance for sharing                     your thoughts.                     Jay

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Enfilade, Effexor is a big time drug to be on for depression – it is usually used for major depression and even some psychotic disorders.  I understand that you want off of the medication because you feel good now – but remember, that is the medication helping you to feel better and control your depression. If you are wanting to try something that won’t turn you into a zombie, ask your doctor about weaning off of it, while being started on something else. If you are taken off of medication completely and you begin to relapse, you could spiral downward before a new drug takes effect (anti-depressants usually take 3-4 weeks before full effect is reached). The consequesnces of that far outweight the benefits of being "drug-free." Also, a relapse is usually worse once being taken off of a medication because of the major changes in the chemicals in your brain… Please be careful I know there is a stigma attached to being on medication for depression, but it is an illness…. Really think of the benefits of the medication vesus the possible results of being off of the medication. Talk to your doc first about switching to a different kind, one that still helps your symptoms, but with less side effects. Good luck

This is wonderful advice, judging from my experience with clinically’ depressed loved ones. Have your doctor help you find a drug that does not interefere with your quality of life–but remember that depression kills. It is a terrible, debilitating disease.

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I have to second this.  These days with managed care, a lot of antidepressants are prescribed by general physicians who frankly don’t have the right pharmocological background.

Yes. And they are prescribing them to people without clinical illness, in many cases. Sometimes I think half the people on antidepressants are not clinically depressed, they just want to "feel better." I think this is dangerous. I’ve been very lucky– in a sense– because my depressions have always been under a psychiatrist’s treatment.  I’m not saying this is true of everyone, but with my history, and my genetics, I have a very strong inclination towards depression.  I would no more try to "tough" out a depression without medication than I would refuse insulin if I were diabetic. I have had the experience of withdrawing off a very tough drug (nardil), and while I never hope to repeat such a thing, it was incredibly important that I do it.  I am now stable on a low dose of Wellbutrin, which seems to have little/no side effects for me.

Wellbutrin has been a wonder drug for a friend of mine. So few side effects for her.

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That red haze is starting to creep back a little, since the doc didn’t in any way suggest that this was a "for the rest of my life" kind of thing until just now.  I feel like I’ve gotten suckered into this situation, and that pisses me off. –Enfilade

I was on Effexor for about three years, and went off it for much the same reasons you mentioned. I’ve been off antidepresants for a couple years now, but it’s getting to be time to start again. Going to have to visit the doc to get a prescription for something other than Effexor. If you do it carefully, with the doc monitoring you closely, I’d sure think it ought to be possible to wean yourself off the Effexor until you can start with something else. Of course if you don’t have health insurance the "close monitoring" thing might be a problem too. We’ll be sending our best purrs that you are able to find a way to make the transition off of Effexor.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This is my first vent here… I want to get off the Effexor I’ve been taking for depression for almost a year now.  I’ve been more stable than DP’s seen me to be in the past 8 years, in the last 6 months.  Unfortunately, in those last 6 months I also sleep about 12 hours a day, and occasionally I get this "Stoned" sensation where stuff gets blurry and I have trouble thinking of words or figuring out just where I am…I’ll wander and then snap out of my reverie like, two hours later, wondering where the time went. The stuff’s expensive as hell, I have no drug coverage, and there’s no way I can do a master’s thesis in September if I’m sleeping more than I’m awake. If I want back on flight operations, I have to lose the drugs that could affect my ability to control an aircraft. So today I’m at the doctor’s and he tells me that if I quit the stuff, I’m almost guaranteed to relapse. DP’s afraid I will, sometime when no one’s around to stop me from cutting my throat–or someone else’s. I’m in my 20s.  I don’t want to be on this crap for the rest of my life.  Hell, the concept of being stuck on drugs is one of the big reasons I left my depression untreated until I became a menace to people around me as well as myself.  I think I know the symptoms well enough–if I start inflicting injury on myself and viewing life through a red rage haze, it’s time to go back on the pills.  I was depressed, I think, since about age 4 or so, but during that time I only had two severe (ie, want-to-kill-myself) episodes, and those 8 years apart.  The minor rounds I could handle without chemical interference.  At that rate, it’d be 2013 before I needed pills again. That’s a lot of money and a lot of drug-free years. That red haze is starting to creep back a little, since the doc didn’t in any way suggest that this was a "for the rest of my life" kind of thing until just now.  I feel like I’ve gotten suckered into this situation, and that pisses me off. –Enfilade

Over the years, I worked my way through just about all the prescription drugs for depression. At this time, I’ve been on Venlafaxine for several years now; according to my shrink, I’ll never develop an "immunity" to it, the way I gradually did to each other. Ask your doctor to consider it.

Response:

If you do it carefully, with the doc monitoring you closely, I’d sure think it ought to be possible to wean yourself off the Effexor until you can start with something else. Of course if you don’t have health insurance the "close monitoring" thing might be a problem too. We’ll be sending our best purrs that you are able to find a way to make the transition off of Effexor.

Howdy folks! Thanks for all your comments.  I really appreciate it. "Close monitoring’ is easy for me because DP is a medical student. Also, in Canada, visiting the doctor is free.  The only thing I have to pay for is the pills. Now, with DP being a medical student, he and I have gone ’round on this one…while he thinks I should be on /something/, he also is willing to live by my decision, if a bit nervously.  At first he insisted that Effexor couldn’t possibly make me sleepy because his medical journals say it causes insomnia; however, today he met up with a neurophysician friend, who said that there are instances of that side effect on record, so NA NAAAA *sticks out tongue* *Serves you right to believe the studies instead of me PPPPPPTHHH!!!* *ahem* As for side effects, once in a snowstorm I did without for three days and aside from a bit of dizziness (I’ve had far worse from the flu) I was fine.  What I don’t like is, the doc says the stuff isn’t addictive, and yet if I’m not supposed to go off it EVER, I might as /well/ be addicted. What am I on it for?  Well, for the most part, I have my stuff pretty well together.  For 25 years I’d hit "lows", which never lasted more than about 6 hours.  I’d spend those days in my room, watching videos if I could concentrate and lying around if I couldn’t, waiting for the "weather to pass."  I could handle this. My first bad time hit when I started feeling abandoned by my friends, broke up with my boyfriend, had health issues, my grades slipped a bit, and I and got kicked out of the house by my mom for taking a spare to address the grades thing.  I was living on people’s couches and/or the public airport, and wanted a lot of support from my friends that they didn’t or couldnt or didn’t know to give (I’m an independent SOB who didn’t know how to ask for help, so it wasn’t entirely their fault.) I was 17, had done all I wanted to do in my life, and didn’t know how I was going to keep myself fed and sheltered until I got to university, or if it wasn’t maybe ready for me to call my life "finished" since I’d met all my goals. My more recent one involved 7 months of looking for work when my EI ran out and I took a job at the mall.  Another 2 months with a jealous co-worker actively trying to get me fired, a position that involved coercive selling despite what I was told at my interview, more unsuccessful job interviews, and me with a master’s degree going apesh!t from boredom, while DPs life was at its high point and he was celebrating being here in this city while I wanted to grab my duffel bag and go back to living in cars and airports if it’d get me out of here. It takes some pretty bad sh!t to set me off…so while I /am/ a little, er, short-fused at those times, normal life doesn’t evoke depression in me.  I’m hopefully in a master’s program full time next year–academia is a stabilizing lifestyle for me.  Better to do another master’s than end up in the nutty house.  Anyway, I think my life will be pretty stable then–DP is such a calming influence on me.  Sometimes I feel like he’s my nurse.  Of course, on his part, he sometimes tends to be quite naive and carefree/careless, and needs me watching his back.  "Just because YOU wouldn’t steal a car doesn’t mean someone else wouldn’t…so LOCK THE CAR." –Fil

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Effexor isn’t the only antidepressant out there, and your doc is greatly remiss in not considering exploring other meds. There are ADs that don’t cause hypersomnia, and which might be less expensive than Effexor. The problem with Effexor is that quitting cold is not an option; it has to be done gradually and incrementally. Quitting all at once produces an extremely undesirable sensation known as "brain spins," "brain shivers," "brain surges," and other unsavory encephalitic phrases. One person described it to me as feeling like your brain is spinning inside your head. Alternatives are out there, and you deserve to have the chance to explore them. I can only add to what everyone else has said.  AD medication is not yet totally understood.  As sufferers, we have to accept that.  After all, we all would like a perfect world, but it just isn’t there yet.  The best thing is to find a practitioner who is willing to try different medication until the benefit outways the side-effects. Don’t forget you need a few weeks to wean off the old drug, and a few weeks for the new one to start to work properly.  It took me a year or two of trying several different drugs until we found one that has almost no side-effects and works really well.

Absolute agreement. The withdrawal effects, and also trying to figure out if the new drug is starting to work, takes time. In some cases, it’s not just clearing confusion. In the case of the MAO inhibitors, not letting another drug clear (about 2 weeks) can kill you. MAO inhibitors are effective, but they have so many drug and food interactions — potentially lethal ones — that they are avoided. A drug that won’t let you have chocolate, chianti, or aged cheese? Perish the thought!   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If this sounds like a long time, it’s not really.  Almost the first drug you try will help with the AD and you will feel better; from there it’s just a matter of fine-tuning the process so that the side-effects are reduced.  Some people will put up with a bit of sleeplessness, others loss of libido, others jitterness.  You just need to find a drug whose side-effects are acceptable to you. Good luck, and don’t give up, because it *does* help in the long run.  I am feeling fine with my drugs and I’ve almost *no* side-effects.

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On 2005-03-09, Karen penned: Well, I’ll tell you what. I work below a doctor’s office, and EVERY (every single  solitary) day, I watch pharmaceutical reps tote in expensive (and I do mean from the BEST places in town) lunches for everyone. It is absolutely *revolting* to see this kind of "bribing" taking place every day. And you should see the vehicles the reps arrive in. No matter how much pharmaceutical companies cry "but it is SOOOOO expensive to research these very necessary drugs" whenever ever drug prices are brought up, I don’t believe it. I believe their marketing budget far outweighs their research. And how many pens and chairs (I kid you not, I saw two stadium chairs stamped with a huge Nexium logo woven right in at a garage sale this summer) and note pads do you see lying around? Makes me just want to urp.

My SIL worked as a biologist for a major pharmaceutical company and said basically the same thing. — monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What gets to me about the antidepressant drug business is that it’s very well known that some drugs will work for some people while others will work better for other people. But, the only way to find out which one’s right for you is the brute force approach – try ‘em all until you find one that works for you. There’s very little research that examines which antidepressants work best for which people out in the community and why.   <cynic After all, drug manufacturers are probably doing quite well out of the brute force approach… it wouldn’t be in THEIR best interests to sponsor research that might find a better way. would it? </cynic Actually, there is a lot of research, or at least experience that gets shared among the psychiatrists that really want the information.  They may be specialists in psychopharmacology. Sometimes, the extra training there can get them networking with the right people. I remember a scathing editorial on Medscape.com by a pediatric psychopharmacologist, who was furious at all too many psychiatrists who overprescribe the newer drugs. Why?  Not studying?  Too much influence by pharmaceutical companies? Now, pharmacology has always been one of my interests. I’ve found a surprising number of doctors that don’t know the biochemistry of the multiple classes of drugs useful in different kinds of depression and with different patients, including:    Post-synaptic nonselective of ST and NE, operating on the    catechol-O-methyl-transferase enzyme system    Post-synaptic nonselective of ST and NE, operating on the    monoamine oxidase enzyme system    Pre-synaptic selective ST reuptake inhibitors    "Atypical" pre-synaptic ST reuptake inhibitors    Pre-synaptic nonselective ST/NE reuptake inhibitors    Pre-synaptic selective NE reuptake inhibitors    Anticonvulsants    Lithium    Stimulant amines like Ritalin    Strattera … need I go on?  Something that often gets missed is a patient with mixed anxiety and depression, who may need an anxiolytic as well as an antidepressant. There are also drugs that can help minimize the side effects of some of the psychotropics, such as beta-blockers to minimize the hand tremor common with the anticonvulsant valproate. OK, I’m only a number-cruncher – I freely admit that I know nothing about pharmacology and I’m just spouting speculation. But it does seem to me that an awful lot of published drug studies don’t reflect how medications are really used in the community as opposed to what happens in carefully controlled clinical trials.

Precisely. In the US, the manufacturer applies to the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) with a New Drug Application (NDA) seeking licensing of a new drug. The FDA and the manufacturer agreee on the clinical trials that have been done [1] or need to be done, and, when there is sufficient information, an approval officer or panel decides whether to authorize a license. [1] Earlier in the process, a manufacturer, or independent researcher,     can apply for an Investigational New Drug (IND) application, which     gives the authority to use it in clinical trials.  INDs are not     available by prescription, although there is a "compassionate use"     procedure by which a clinician can request a supply of the     experimental drug for a patient in whom all other therapies have     failed. Each NDA is for a specific list of "indications", or conditions the manufacturer asserts the drug will treat.  Physicians are permitted to prescribe drugs for "off-label" indications not in the manufacturers’ literature. Part of the time, off-label prescribing can be a good way to use the knowledge of experienced physicians, especially for rarer conditions where the manufacturer didn’t want to pay for clinical trials for the other indication. An unfortunate other part of the time, however, we have seen pharmaceutical company representatives pushing off-label indications to increase sales, with no data backing it up. Incidentally, I’m not opposed to all pharmaceutical representatives, often called "detail men".  Some are extremely knowledgeable, help independent researchers and clinicians meet one another, and act as a channel between practicing physicians and the company research department. Others have the ethics of used car salesmen — and that’s increasingly common in their profit-driven upper management. It’s sad to remember that the accepted term for the US prescription drug manufacturers was the "ethical pharmaceutical industry."  At one time, many of the manufacturers really did have a commitment to medicine over short-term profit. In Australia (don’t know whether things are different in the USA) hardly anyone would be able to get their antidepressants prescribed by a psychiatrist – there are just so few of them that even if you’re able to pay privately, the waiting list for an appointment will be months long. You really have to be so ill that you’re a danger to other people (a danger to yourself isn’t enough) to be able to see a psychiatrist quickly. So, most people have to go to a GP to get a prescription, and I guess the shared experience of specialist psychiatrists on choosing an antidepressant isn’t reaching them. Then again, the shrinks are probably too darned overworked to publish what they know…

Quite frankly, then, I’ll put in a suggestion to the Australian medical authorities that they might do well to use computer assistance from one of my research areas: expert systems for prescribing. While my work has more been in cardiology and infectious disease, it’s quite possible to construct a "consultant in a box" that can help a primary physician select drugs and find alternatives. Unfortunately, there is an overall problem of specialist knowledge reaching GPs. In the US, there are several annual studies that show poor dissemination of knowledge. For example, cardiologists (a subspecialty of internal medicine, with their own subspecialties beyond that) usually know what drugs have been found good and bad in treating heart attack or congestive heart failures. Some of the effective drugs are NOT intuitive. Internists don’t have as high a knowledge of the correct drugs. The percentage of primary care physicians that know the most up-to-date therapies tends to be even lower. I must say that cuddling a cat is one of the best ways I’ve found to deal with depression in the short term. I personally find a big, heavy one with long whiskers and loud purrs most effective.

Absolutely.  Purring time should be reimbursable under all insurance plans!

Response:

This is my first vent here… I want to get off the Effexor I’ve been taking for depression for almost a year now.  I’ve been more stable than DP’s seen me to be in the past 8 years, in the last 6 months.  Unfortunately, in those last 6 months I also sleep about 12 hours a day, and occasionally I get this "Stoned" sensation where stuff gets blurry and I have trouble thinking of words or figuring out just where I am…I’ll wander and then snap out of my reverie like, two hours later, wondering where the time went. The stuff’s expensive as hell, I have no drug coverage, and there’s no way I can do a master’s thesis in September if I’m sleeping more than I’m awake. If I want back on flight operations, I have to lose the drugs that could affect my ability to control an aircraft. So today I’m at the doctor’s and he tells me that if I quit the stuff, I’m almost guaranteed to relapse. DP’s afraid I will, sometime when no one’s around to stop me from cutting my throat–or someone else’s. I’m in my 20s.  I don’t want to be on this crap for the rest of my life.  Hell, the concept of being stuck on drugs is one of the big reasons I left my depression untreated until I became a menace to people around me as well as myself.  I think I know the symptoms well enough–if I start inflicting injury on myself and viewing life through a red rage haze, it’s time to go back on the pills.  I was depressed, I think, since about age 4 or so, but during that time I only had two severe (ie, want-to-kill-myself) episodes, and those 8 years apart.  The minor rounds I could handle without chemical interference.  At that rate, it’d be 2013 before I needed pills again.  That’s a lot of money and a lot of drug-free years. That red haze is starting to creep back a little, since the doc didn’t in any way suggest that this was a "for the rest of my life" kind of thing until just now.  I feel like I’ve gotten suckered into this situation, and that pisses me off. –Enfilade

Response:

That red haze is starting to creep back a little, since the doc didn’t in any way suggest that this was a "for the rest of my life" kind of thing until just now.  I feel like I’ve gotten suckered into this situation, and that pisses me off. –Enfilade

Aw Fil, I know *EXACTLY* how you feel.  My doctor put me on Effexor because it’s supposed to help with the pain of Fibromyalgia.  Not *ONCE* did he tell me that the withdrawals from this drug are worse than the withdrawals from heroine – and last longer.  Please, *PLEASE*, don’t quit taking this drug cold turkey (that’s what I did because my doctor wouldn’t help me get off them in a gradual way).  I ended up in the emergency room and found out later that I could have killed myself by doing this. My daughter was also put on Effexor, but for depression.  She wanted to get off of them too, but couldn’t, not even with a gradual withdrawal (as soon as she missed one dose she would have horrible, severe flu-like symptoms. Some other withdrawal symptoms of Effexor that I had are feeling like I was being electrocuted with pulsing shock like feelings all through my body, nausea, heart palpitations, cold sweats, insomnia, dizziness, headaches, shakes, going into fugue states and not remembering where I was or what I was doing (really scary when you’re driving), crying jags and screaming rages. There is supposedly a class-action lawsuit against Wyeth-Ayerst Labs because they knew all about these symptoms but still pushed this drug for all kinds or medical problems besides depression.  There are newsgroup and chat rooms dedicated to nothing but the horrible side effects and withdrawal symptoms of this drug. Here is the result of a google search on Effexor withdrawal symptoms: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=effexor+withdrawals. Again, please be very careful how you go about getting off this drug, if you decide to.  I’ve heard that ClaritinD helps somewhat with the withdrawals. Hugs, CatNipped

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Nipped, That is one of the symptoms I had when I first stepped down the dosage – major flu like symptoms, and extremely exhausted. I am now over that, but it took almost a month.  My dr. said it was a Fibromyalgia flare, and it was because the Effexor had been controlling the symptoms and it wasn’t any more. Honestly, I felt WORSE after this drug than I ever did before as far as the fibro went. It is like it exacerbated it, rather than controlling it. Yeah, for me too.  I really didn’t feel any diminishment of pain from the fibro while I was on the Effexor.  It *did* help the depression that was caused by the fibro (finding out that you’re going to be in constant pain for the rest of your life can be quite depressing).  And you’re right, the pain during withdrawals was definitely worse than the pain I had before I started taking it.  I really don’t know why they haven’t taken this drug off the market – there’s beeen thousands of complaints to the FDA about it.  I think there’s been some *marjor* payoffs regarding this golden goose of the drug company that manufactures it.

It really does work for some people – me for one. When I started it I felt like I’d been woken up after years asleep. I’m not good at describing this sort of thing, but on this drug I actually started to feel like I could DO something – make choices and take actions – that might have some sort of effect on my life. I’d been through the usual list of other antidepressants – some didn’t work at all, some worked for a while, one worked well but I had an allergic reaction to it. I’m down to a really low dose now, but am not keen to stop it altogether in case I slide back into that old black hole again. So I can say it’s been good for me, but obviously it’s not good for everyone and probably is dangerous for some. What gets to me about the antidepressant drug business is that it’s very well known that some drugs will work for some people while others will work better for other people. But, the only way to find out which one’s right for you is the brute force approach – try ‘em all until you find one that works for you. There’s very little research that examines which antidepressants work best for which people out in the community and why.    <cynic After all, drug manufacturers are probably doing quite well out of the brute force approach… it wouldn’t be in THEIR best interests to sponsor research that might find a better way. would it? </cynic

Response:

Hi Enfilade, Just want to let you know I wrote you a private email on this subject.  Let me know if you don’t get it. regards, Christine

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This is my first vent here… I want to get off the Effexor I’ve been taking for depression for almost a year now.  I’ve been more stable than DP’s seen me to be in the past 8 years, in the last 6 months.  Unfortunately, in those last 6 months I also sleep about 12 hours a day, and occasionally I get this "Stoned" sensation where stuff gets blurry and I have trouble thinking of words or figuring out just where I am…I’ll wander and then snap out of my reverie like, two hours later, wondering where the time went. The stuff’s expensive as hell, I have no drug coverage, and there’s no way I can do a master’s thesis in September if I’m sleeping more than I’m awake. If I want back on flight operations, I have to lose the drugs that could affect my ability to control an aircraft. So today I’m at the doctor’s and he tells me that if I quit the stuff, I’m almost guaranteed to relapse. DP’s afraid I will, sometime when no one’s around to stop me from cutting my throat–or someone else’s. I’m in my 20s.  I don’t want to be on this crap for the rest of my life.  Hell, the concept of being stuck on drugs is one of the big reasons I left my depression untreated until I became a menace to people around me as well as myself.  I think I know the symptoms well enough–if I start inflicting injury on myself and viewing life through a red rage haze, it’s time to go back on the pills.  I was depressed, I think, since about age 4 or so, but during that time I only had two severe (ie, want-to-kill-myself) episodes, and those 8 years apart.  The minor rounds I could handle without chemical interference.  At that rate, it’d be 2013 before I needed pills again.  That’s a lot of money and a lot of drug-free years. That red haze is starting to creep back a little, since the doc didn’t in any way suggest that this was a "for the rest of my life" kind of thing until just now.  I feel like I’ve gotten suckered into this situation, and that pisses me off. –Enfilade

Response:

Is there a different antidepressant, with fewer side effects, that your doctor can help you switch over to? Nobody wants to be on meds for the long haul. That goes double for a med that’s causing side effects that are as disruptive to daily living as the problem the medicine is supposed to be relieving. But some people, including me, would be in a permanent state of depression without meds. In my case, even what I USED to think of as a normal state was a low-level state of depression, and I’ve wavered between that and flat-out clinical depression since I was 10. (Which means I’ve been dealing with this for over 30 years.) But it was being downsized a few years ago that brought on a really, REALLY severe and unrelenting case of depression. Finally, I went to the doctor because the symptoms were not only debilitating, they were showing no signs of lifting. The prescription I’m on right now is Celexa (citalopram), and it has helped a lot. It also doesn’t have the side effects you were describing. Maybe you can discuss switching over to that or to a different prescription that will help the depression, minus the side effects you’re getting from the Effexor. My husband is on thyroid medication, permanently, because his thyroid doesn’t produce enough hormone on its own. Friends and relatives of mine take insulin or pills to regulate diabetes, since their bodies don’t produce enough insulin. And there’s no difference between their permanent need for meds, and the fact that my body needs some help getting the serotonin level right. There’s no shame in needing any of those meds, or any other prescription, not even if it’s necessary over the long haul. It’s not fun AT ALL to have to deal with these issues. ( But see if you can work with your doctor to change to a different medication. And if this doc won’t work with you on that, it’s time for a second opinion. Keep us posted. Donna

Response:

Effexor isn’t the only antidepressant out there, and your doc is greatly remiss in not considering exploring other meds. There are ADs that don’t cause hypersomnia, and which might be less expensive than Effexor. The problem with Effexor is that quitting cold is not an option; it has to be done gradually and incrementally. Quitting all at once produces an extremely undesirable sensation known as "brain spins," "brain shivers," "brain surges," and other unsavory encephalitic phrases. One person described it to me as feeling like your brain is spinning inside your head. Alternatives are out there, and you deserve to have the chance to explore them.

I can only add to what everyone else has said.  AD medication is not yet totally understood.  As sufferers, we have to accept that.  After all, we all would like a perfect world, but it just isn’t there yet.  The best thing is to find a practitioner who is willing to try different medication until the benefit outways the side-effects. Don’t forget you need a few weeks to wean off the old drug, and a few weeks for the new one to start to work properly.  It took me a year or two of trying several different drugs until we found one that has almost no side-effects and works really well.   If this sounds like a long time, it’s not really.  Almost the first drug you try will help with the AD and you will feel better; from there it’s just a matter of fine-tuning the process so that the side-effects are reduced.  Some people will put up with a bit of sleeplessness, others loss of libido, others jitterness.  You just need to find a drug whose side-effects are acceptable to you. Good luck, and don’t give up, because it *does* help in the long run.  I am feeling fine with my drugs and I’ve almost *no* side-effects.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What gets to me about the antidepressant drug business is that it’s very well known that some drugs will work for some people while others will work better for other people. But, the only way to find out which one’s right for you is the brute force approach – try ‘em all until you find one that works for you. There’s very little research that examines which antidepressants work best for which people out in the community and why.   <cynic After all, drug manufacturers are probably doing quite well out of the brute force approach… it wouldn’t be in THEIR best interests to sponsor research that might find a better way. would it? </cynic Actually, there is a lot of research, or at least experience that gets shared among the psychiatrists that really want the information.  They may be specialists in psychopharmacology. Sometimes, the extra training there can get them networking with the right people. I remember a scathing editorial on Medscape.com by a pediatric psychopharmacologist, who was furious at all too many psychiatrists who overprescribe the newer drugs. Why?  Not studying?  Too much influence by pharmaceutical companies? Now, pharmacology has always been one of my interests. I’ve found a surprising number of doctors that don’t know the biochemistry of the multiple classes of drugs useful in different kinds of depression and with different patients, including:    Post-synaptic nonselective of ST and NE, operating on the    catechol-O-methyl-transferase enzyme system    Post-synaptic nonselective of ST and NE, operating on the    monoamine oxidase enzyme system    Pre-synaptic selective ST reuptake inhibitors    "Atypical" pre-synaptic ST reuptake inhibitors    Pre-synaptic nonselective ST/NE reuptake inhibitors    Pre-synaptic selective NE reuptake inhibitors    Anticonvulsants    Lithium    Stimulant amines like Ritalin    Strattera … need I go on?  Something that often gets missed is a patient with mixed anxiety and depression, who may need an anxiolytic as well as an antidepressant. There are also drugs that can help minimize the side effects of some of the psychotropics, such as beta-blockers to minimize the hand tremor common with the anticonvulsant valproate.

OK, I’m only a number-cruncher – I freely admit that I know nothing about pharmacology and I’m just spouting speculation. But it does seem to me that an awful lot of published drug studies don’t reflect how medications are really used in the community as opposed to what happens in carefully controlled clinical trials. In Australia (don’t know whether things are different in the USA) hardly anyone would be able to get their antidepressants prescribed by a psychiatrist – there are just so few of them that even if you’re able to pay privately, the waiting list for an appointment will be months long. You really have to be so ill that you’re a danger to other people (a danger to yourself isn’t enough) to be able to see a psychiatrist quickly. So, most people have to go to a GP to get a prescription, and I guess the shared experience of specialist psychiatrists on choosing an antidepressant isn’t reaching them. Then again, the shrinks are probably too darned overworked to publish what they know… I must say that cuddling a cat is one of the best ways I’ve found to deal with depression in the short term. I personally find a big, heavy one with long whiskers and loud purrs most effective.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This is my first vent here… I want to get off the Effexor I’ve been taking for depression for almost a year now.  I’ve been more stable than DP’s seen me to be in the past 8 years, in the last 6 months.  Unfortunately, in those last 6 months I also sleep about 12 hours a day, and occasionally I get this "Stoned" sensation where stuff gets blurry and I have trouble thinking of words or figuring out just where I am…I’ll wander and then snap out of my reverie like, two hours later, wondering where the time went. The stuff’s expensive as hell, I have no drug coverage, and there’s no way I can do a master’s thesis in September if I’m sleeping more than I’m awake. If I want back on flight operations, I have to lose the drugs that could affect my ability to control an aircraft. So today I’m at the doctor’s and he tells me that if I quit the stuff, I’m almost guaranteed to relapse. DP’s afraid I will, sometime when no one’s around to stop me from cutting my throat–or someone else’s. I’m in my 20s.  I don’t want to be on this crap for the rest of my life.  Hell, the concept of being stuck on drugs is one of the big reasons I left my depression untreated until I became a menace to people around me as well as myself.  I think I know the symptoms well enough–if I start inflicting injury on myself and viewing life through a red rage haze, it’s time to go back on the pills.  I was depressed, I think, since about age 4 or so, but during that time I only had two severe (ie, want-to-kill-myself) episodes, and those 8 years apart.  The minor rounds I could handle without chemical interference.  At that rate, it’d be 2013 before I needed pills again.  That’s a lot of money and a lot of drug-free years. That red haze is starting to creep back a little, since the doc didn’t in any way suggest that this was a "for the rest of my life" kind of thing until just now.  I feel like I’ve gotten suckered into this situation, and that pisses me off. –Enfilade

Effexor isn’t the only antidepressant out there, and your doc is greatly remiss in not considering exploring other meds. There are ADs that don’t cause hypersomnia, and which might be less expensive than Effexor. The problem with Effexor is that quitting cold is not an option; it has to be done gradually and incrementally. Quitting all at once produces an extremely undesirable sensation known as "brain spins," "brain shivers," "brain surges," and other unsavory encephalitic phrases. One person described it to me as feeling like your brain is spinning inside your head. Alternatives are out there, and you deserve to have the chance to explore them.

Response:

In article – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is there a different antidepressant, with fewer side effects, that your doctor can help you switch over to? Nobody wants to be on meds for the long haul. That goes double for a med that’s causing side effects that are as disruptive to daily living as the problem the medicine is supposed to be relieving. But some people, including me, would be in a permanent state of depression without meds. In my case, even what I USED to think of as a normal state was a low-level state of depression, and I’ve wavered between that and flat-out clinical depression since I was 10. (Which means I’ve been dealing with this for over 30 years.) But it was being downsized a few years ago that brought on a really, REALLY severe and unrelenting case of depression. Finally, I went to the doctor because the symptoms were not only debilitating, they were showing no signs of lifting. The prescription I’m on right now is Celexa (citalopram), and it has helped a lot. It also doesn’t have the side effects you were describing. Maybe you can discuss switching over to that or to a different prescription that will help the depression, minus the side effects you’re getting from the Effexor.

Celexa is in a different family than Effexor. Celexa, along with Paxil and a few others, is considered an "atypical" selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor. I’ve gotten biochemical enough without getting into why these are considered "atypical" with respect to Prozac, Zoloft, etc. Yes, yes, yes. If one psychotropic drug doesn’t work well, there tend to be alternatives, both within the same family and in different families.   For example, I have intolerable dry mouth with the tricyclic antidepressant amitriptyline (Elavil), but not with the closely related nortriptyline (Pamelor). My husband is on thyroid medication, permanently, because his thyroid doesn’t produce enough hormone on its own. Friends and relatives of mine take insulin or pills to regulate diabetes, since their bodies don’t produce enough insulin. And there’s no difference between their permanent need for meds, and the fact that my body needs some help getting the serotonin level right. There’s no shame in needing any of those meds, or any other prescription, not even if it’s necessary over the long haul. It’s not fun AT ALL to have to deal with these issues. ( But see if you can work with your doctor to change to a different medication. And if this doc won’t work with you on that, it’s time for a second opinion.

Exactly. I find more physicians "stuck" with a very few psychotropic drugs than almost any other class of medications. If an infectious disease specialist only wanted to use 2 or 3 classes of antibiotics, they’d be considered candidates for psychotherapy, or at least intensive retraining. Why can’t psychiatrists bother with the alternativews available to them?

Response:

Too many psychiatrists are overly fixated on single drugs or drug classes. They seem to fixate on the newest drugs, rather than older ones that can be quite effective

Well, I’ll tell you what. I work below a doctor’s office, and EVERY (every single  solitary) day, I watch pharmaceutical reps tote in expensive (and I do mean from the BEST places in town) lunches for everyone. It is absolutely *revolting* to see this kind of "bribing" taking place every day. And you should see the vehicles the reps arrive in. No matter how much pharmaceutical companies cry "but it is SOOOOO expensive to research these very necessary drugs" whenever ever drug prices are brought up, I don’t believe it. I believe their marketing budget far outweighs their research. And how many pens and chairs (I kid you not, I saw two stadium chairs stamped with a huge Nexium logo woven right in at a garage sale this summer) and note pads do you see lying around? Makes me just want to urp.

Response:

What gets to me about the antidepressant drug business is that it’s very well known that some drugs will work for some people while others will work better for other people. But, the only way to find out which one’s right for you is the brute force approach – try ‘em all until you find one that works for you. There’s very little research that examines which antidepressants work best for which people out in the community and why.    <cynic After all, drug manufacturers are probably doing quite well out of the brute force approach… it wouldn’t be in THEIR best interests to sponsor research that might find a better way. would it? </cynic

Actually, there is a lot of research, or at least experience that gets shared among the psychiatrists that really want the information.  They may be specialists in psychopharmacology. Sometimes, the extra training there can get them networking with the right people. I remember a scathing editorial on Medscape.com by a pediatric psychopharmacologist, who was furious at all too many psychiatrists who overprescribe the newer drugs. Why?  Not studying?  Too much influence by pharmaceutical companies? Now, pharmacology has always been one of my interests. I’ve found a surprising number of doctors that don’t know the biochemistry of the multiple classes of drugs useful in different kinds of depression and with different patients, including:    Post-synaptic nonselective of ST and NE, operating on the    catechol-O-methyl-transferase enzyme system    Post-synaptic nonselective of ST and NE, operating on the    monoamine oxidase enzyme system    Pre-synaptic selective ST reuptake inhibitors    "Atypical" pre-synaptic ST reuptake inhibitors    Pre-synaptic nonselective ST/NE reuptake inhibitors    Pre-synaptic selective NE reuptake inhibitors    Anticonvulsants    Lithium    Stimulant amines like Ritalin    Strattera … need I go on?  Something that often gets missed is a patient with mixed anxiety and depression, who may need an anxiolytic as well as an antidepressant. There are also drugs that can help minimize the side effects of some of the psychotropics, such as beta-blockers to minimize the hand tremor common with the anticonvulsant valproate.

Response:

(Snip) But some people, including me, would be in a permanent state of depression without meds. In my case, even what I USED to think of as a normal state was a low-level state of depression, and I’ve wavered between that and flat-out clinical depression since I was 10. (Which means I’ve been dealing with this for over 30 years.)

I have to second this.  These days with managed care, a lot of antidepressants are prescribed by general physicians who frankly don’t have the right pharmocological background.  I’ve been very lucky– in a sense– because my depressions have always been under a psychiatrist’s treatment.  I’m not saying this is true of everyone, but with my history, and my genetics, I have a very strong inclination towards depression.  I would no more try to "tough" out a depression without medication than I would refuse insulin if I were diabetic. I have had the experience of withdrawing off a very tough drug (nardil), and while I never hope to repeat such a thing, it was incredibly important that I do it.  I am now stable on a low dose of Wellbutrin, which seems to have little/no side effects for me. Theresa Stinky Pictures: http://community.webshots.com/album/125591586JWEFwh My Blog: http://www.humanitas.blogspot.com

Response:

This is my first vent here… I want to get off the Effexor I’ve been taking for depression for almost a year now.  I’ve been more stable than DP’s seen me to be in the past 8 years, in the last 6 months.  Unfortunately, in those last 6 months I also sleep about 12 hours a day, and occasionally I get this "Stoned" sensation where stuff gets blurry and I have trouble thinking of words or figuring out just where I am…I’ll wander and then snap out of my reverie like, two hours later, wondering where the time went.

Funny how things work — we are looking at it as an alternative, but only if we can’t tweak the dosage on my present drugs. If Effexor does have a positive effect as well as side effects, there is a reasonable class of alternatives: the "first-generation" tricyclic antidepressants (TCA).  Cheap, and with a different side effect profile. Both Effexor and the TCAs differ from the "second generation" selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRI) in being nonselective: they elevate both serotonin and norepinephrine, rather than just serotonin. The two classes do it by different mechanisms. Effexor works presynaptically, slowing the reuptake into the transmitting cell. TCAs work postsynaptically, inhibiting the enzyme catechol-O-methyl-transferase, which metabolizes serotonin and norepinephrine in The stuff’s expensive as hell, I have no drug coverage, and there’s no way I can do a master’s thesis in September if I’m sleeping more than I’m awake. If I want back on flight operations, I have to lose the drugs that could affect my ability to control an aircraft. So today I’m at the doctor’s and he tells me that if I quit the stuff, I’m almost guaranteed to relapse.

Too many psychiatrists are overly fixated on single drugs or drug classes. They seem to fixate on the newest drugs, rather than older ones that can be quite effective — and usually much cheaper. IIRC, a month’s supply of nortriptyline is around USD $10.  TCAs fall into two families, the first drug of one class being amitriptyline and the first drug of the second being imipramine.  The second group tends to be less sedating, although you can usually minimize sedation by changing drugs within the same group. I’m in my 20s.  I don’t want to be on this crap for the rest of my life.  Hell, the concept of being stuck on drugs is one of the big reasons I left my depression untreated until I became a menace to people around me as well as myself.  I think I know the symptoms well enough–if I start inflicting injury on myself and viewing life through a red rage haze, it’s time to go back on the pills.  I was depressed, I think, since about age 4 or so, but during that time I only had two severe (ie, want-to-kill-myself) episodes, and those 8 years apart.  The minor rounds I could handle without chemical interference.  At that rate, it’d be 2013 before I needed pills again.  That’s a lot of money and a lot of drug-free years.

That may be perfectly good reasoning. Having someone that can get creative with the drugs, seeking less sedating and cheaper alternatives, also can be valid. That red haze is starting to creep back a little, since the doc didn’t in any way suggest that this was a "for the rest of my life" kind of thing until just now.  I feel like I’ve gotten suckered into this situation, and that pisses me off.

Personally, I don’t have a "rest of my life" concern with psychotropic drugs, any more than my cardiac drugs — _IF_ they are appropriately prescribed with plenty of thought.

Response:

<very gently snipped My daughter was also put on Effexor, but for depression.  She wanted to

get off of them too, but couldn’t, not even with a gradual withdrawal (as soon as she missed one dose she would have horrible, severe flu-like symptoms. Hi Nipped, That is one of the symptoms I had when I first stepped down the dosage – major flu like symptoms, and extremely exhausted. I am now over that, but it took almost a month.  My dr. said it was a Fibromyalgia flare, and it was because the Effexor had been controlling the symptoms and it wasn’t any more. Honestly, I felt WORSE after this drug than I ever did before as far as the fibro went. It is like it exacerbated it, rather than controlling it. Thanks for the tip on ClaritinD – I will most certainly try it. Patti

Response:

Hi Nipped, That is one of the symptoms I had when I first stepped down the dosage – major flu like symptoms, and extremely exhausted. I am now over that, but it took almost a month.  My dr. said it was a Fibromyalgia flare, and it was because the Effexor had been controlling the symptoms and it wasn’t any more. Honestly, I felt WORSE after this drug than I ever did before as far as the fibro went. It is like it exacerbated it, rather than controlling

it. Yeah, for me too.  I really didn’t feel any diminishment of pain from the fibro while I was on the Effexor.  It *did* help the depression that was caused by the fibro (finding out that you’re going to be in constant pain for the rest of your life can be quite depressing).  And you’re right, the pain during withdrawals was definitely worse than the pain I had before I started taking it.  I really don’t know why they haven’t taken this drug off the market – there’s beeen thousands of complaints to the FDA about it.  I think there’s been some *marjor* payoffs regarding this golden goose of the drug company that manufactures it. Hugs, CatNipped – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks for the tip on ClaritinD – I will most certainly try it. Patti

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This is my first vent here… I want to get off the Effexor I’ve been taking for depression for almost a year now.  I’ve been more stable than DP’s seen me to be in the past 8 years, in the last 6 months.  Unfortunately, in those last 6 months I also sleep about 12 hours a day, and occasionally I get this "Stoned" sensation where stuff gets blurry and I have trouble thinking of words or figuring out just where I am…I’ll wander and then snap out of my reverie like, two hours later, wondering where the time went. The stuff’s expensive as hell, I have no drug coverage, and there’s no way I can do a master’s thesis in September if I’m sleeping more than I’m awake. If I want back on flight operations, I have to lose the drugs that could affect my ability to control an aircraft. So today I’m at the doctor’s and he tells me that if I quit the stuff, I’m almost guaranteed to relapse. DP’s afraid I will, sometime when no one’s around to stop me from cutting my throat–or someone else’s. I’m in my 20s.  I don’t want to be on this crap for the rest of my life.  Hell, the concept of being stuck on drugs is one of the big reasons I left my depression untreated until I became a menace to people around me as well as myself.  I think I know the symptoms well enough–if I start inflicting injury on myself and viewing life through a red rage haze, it’s time to go back on the pills.  I was depressed, I think, since about age 4 or so, but during that time I only had two severe (ie, want-to-kill-myself) episodes, and those 8 years apart.  The minor rounds I could handle without chemical interference.  At that rate, it’d be 2013 before I needed pills again. That’s a lot of money and a lot of drug-free years. That red haze is starting to creep back a little, since the doc didn’t in any way suggest that this was a "for the rest of my life" kind of thing until just now.  I feel like I’ve gotten suckered into this situation, and that pisses me off. –Enfilade

Hi Enfilade, Effexor is a big time drug to be on for depression – it is usually used for major depression and even some psychotic disorders.  I understand that you want off of the medication because you feel good now – but remember, that is the medication helping you to feel better and control your depression. If you are wanting to try something that won’t turn you into a zombie, ask your doctor about weaning off of it, while being started on something else. If you are taken off of medication completely and you begin to relapse, you could spiral downward before a new drug takes effect (anti-depressants usually take 3-4 weeks before full effect is reached). The consequesnces of that far outweight the benefits of being "drug-free." Also, a relapse is usually worse once being taken off of a medication because of the major changes in the chemicals in your brain… Please be careful I know there is a stigma attached to being on medication for depression, but it is an illness…. Really think of the benefits of the medication vesus the possible results of being off of the medication. Talk to your doc first about switching to a different kind, one that still helps your symptoms, but with less side effects. Good luck

Response:

 This is my first vent here…  I want to get off the Effexor I’ve been taking for depression for  almost a year now.  I’ve been more stable than DP’s seen me to be in  the past 8 years, in the last 6 months.  Unfortunately, in those last  6 months I also sleep about 12 hours a day, and occasionally I get  this "Stoned" sensation where stuff gets blurry and I have trouble  thinking of words or figuring out just where I am…I’ll wander and  then snap out of my reverie like, two hours later, wondering where the  time went.  The stuff’s expensive as hell, I have no drug coverage, and there’s no  way I can do a master’s thesis in September if I’m sleeping more than  I’m awake. If I want back on flight operations, I have to lose the  drugs that could affect my ability to control an aircraft.  So today I’m at the doctor’s and he tells me that if I quit the stuff,  I’m almost guaranteed to relapse.  DP’s afraid I will, sometime when no one’s around to stop me from  cutting my throat–or someone else’s.  I’m in my 20s.  I don’t want to be on this crap for the rest of my  life.  Hell, the concept of being stuck on drugs is one of the big  reasons I left my depression untreated until I became a menace to  people around me as well as myself.  I think I know the symptoms well enough–if I start inflicting injury on myself and viewing life through a red rage haze, it’s time to go back on the pills.  I was depressed, I think, since about age 4 or so, but during that time I only had two severe (ie, want-to-kill-myself) episodes, and those 8  years apart.  The minor rounds I could handle without chemical  interference.  At that rate, it’d be 2013 before I needed pills again.   That’s a lot of money and a lot of drug-free years.  That red haze is starting to creep back a little, since the doc didn’t  in any way suggest that this was a "for the rest of my life" kind of  thing until just now.  I feel like I’ve gotten suckered into this  situation, and that pisses me off.  –Enfilade Hi Fil, I have been on Effexor for about 3 years, and am now in the process of stepping down the dose in order to quit.  I was having some of the same symptoms as you – the feeling of ‘not being there’ is one major one, and the just not caring about things. Plus, I am one of the 5 to 10% that develop high blood pressure while taking it.  I finally told my doc that I WAS going to d/c this, with or without his help. He finally agreed, with the proviso that if I become depressed again I would tell him. It hasn’t been completely easy, but at least I am able to feel again. I hope you can get your dr. to take you off this, and that everything goes ok! Patti

Response:

Question:

:My shrink has started me on 20mg though I’m having a rough time with it. I’m :trying to stay away from benzos. I got some with me but never take it due to :the addictive nature of the drug. Not to say that AD drugs aren’t addictive :unlike the shrink says. I take Cipramil at night to help with sleeping a bit :due to its sedative effect. :How r u going with your problems? Dear Wiseguy, Please call your doctor and ask about lowering your celexa dose and weaning slower, especially that you are trying to stay away from benzos. There is no reason to suffer like this. I read in your reply to Vanessa that you recently broke up with your fiancee over her inability to deal with your disorder. I`m so sorry about that. My husband isn`t very understanding about my disorder and it has caused a lot of problems too. {{{{{Wiseguy}}}}} Jackie ~*~I am of nothing special; of this I am sure.   I am a common man with common thoughts, and I’ve led a common life.  There are no monuments dedicated to me and my name will soon be forgotten, but I’ve loved another with all my heart and soul, and to me, this has always been enough~*~  ~Nicholas Sparks~

Response:

Hi Wiseguy, Sorry to hear about the break-up with your fiance. It is so hard for our partners and loved ones to understand, hey it’s hard for *us* to understand it all. I’ve been married 14 years and my condition has really tested our relationship many times. I must be one of the lucky ones as my husband comes along to therapy with me and supports me as best he can even though he doesn’t understand it. I am doing really well, thanks for asking. No panic attack for 3 months now, yipeee. Still some anxiety here and there but I can live with that. I am working 3 days per week and enjoying it, instead of dreading each day. I went to see my husband in the World Masters Games here in Melbourne last week, and I didn’t get anxious as i thought I might….sunny day….lots of people….open spaces….eeek, enough to normally keep me away or get tied up in knots. So you work at Quantas huh? Going back to work may bring some routine back to your life. It’s great that you are looking forward to it, great positive attitude, especially after all you have been through. Are you happy with you shrink? Other than prescribing meds does she give you any CBT therapy – may not be for you but it worked great for my problems. Can’t comment on your med as I have never taken ssri’s, I do take rivotril (clonazepam) which is a benzo, has helped me but you are different and you need to work out the combo and treatment that works best for you. Let us know how you are going – side effects etc. Other posters take the med you are on now (celexa) so am sure they can advise better than me. best wishes, Vanessa )

Response:

Hi Vanessa, thanks for asking. My pulpatations seemed to be in connection with the EFFEXOR XR so I’ve been told to change over. So now it’s a waiting game again. Getting off EFFEXOR XR was hell for me, I didn’t know they’re so addictive unlike what the shrink told me. Getting on Cipramil wasn’t fun either. Started off on 20mg straight out so I’m still getting used to it altough I seem to feel a bit better. As far as checking my pulse, that shoul wear off as my heart rate goes down hence reducing further anxiety. It hasn’t been the best of times for me, broke up with my fiancee of almost 5 years because she wasn’t understanding with this so she couldn’t put up with me anymore. As for now I’m a bit deppressed but trying to have a positive attitude about things though things arn’t so bright at the moment. I’m looking forward to going back to work to QANTAS next month after taking 3 months off. Hows thing with you if I may ask? Thanx

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – All i know is that it’s an SSRI, used mainly for anxiety, depression and OCD. Good to see you posting again wiseguy. Sorry to hear you are still suffering from anxiety/panic and have had side effects from the meds you have tried. How are your heart palpitations going? Are you still checking your heart rate as often as you used to? Vanessa ) Hi everyone. I haven’t posted for a while but I have a queation. I have just started on Cipramil for anxiety and panic disorder after having tried Aurorix and Effexor XR with no luck and a lot of side effects. Anyone have any info or experience with Cipramil? Thank You all

Response:

Hi Jackie, My shrink has started me on 20mg though I’m having a rough time with it. I’m trying to stay away from benzos. I got some with me but never take it due to the addictive nature of the drug. Not to say that AD drugs aren’t addictive unlike the shrink says. I take Cipramil at night to help with sleeping a bit due to its sedative effect. How r u going with your problems? Thanx and may God be with you all.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – :Hi everyone. I haven’t posted for a while but I have a queation. I have just :started on Cipramil for anxiety and panic disorder after having tried :Aurorix and Effexor XR with no luck and a lot of side effects. : :Anyone have any info or experience with Cipramil? : :Thank You all Dear Wiseguy, I hope your doctor is starting you at a low dose and weaning you slowly onto the celexa. Usual starting dose for people with anxiety disorder is 5mgs, increasing that dose every week or so until you reach the prescribed dose. It is also a common practice to use a benzo such as xanax or klonopin while weaning on antidepressants. Give the celexa 6 to 8 weeks to kick in. Make sure to take it with food and/or water as to prevent any stomach irritation that some antidepressants can cause. You may also have to experiment with the time you take the dose to see what works best for you. I wish you much luck with your new med Jackie ~*~I am of nothing special; of this I am sure. I am a common man with common thoughts, and I’ve led a common life.  There are no monuments dedicated to me and my name will soon be forgotten, but I’ve loved another with all my heart and soul, and to me, this has always been enough~*~  ~Nicholas Sparks~

Response:

Hi everyone. I haven’t posted for a while but I have a queation. I have just started on Cipramil for anxiety and panic disorder after having tried Aurorix and Effexor XR with no luck and a lot of side effects. Anyone have any info or experience with Cipramil? Thank You all

Response:

All i know is that it’s an SSRI, used mainly for anxiety, depression and OCD. Good to see you posting again wiseguy. Sorry to hear you are still suffering from anxiety/panic and have had side effects from the meds you have tried. How are your heart palpitations going? Are you still checking your heart rate as often as you used to? Vanessa ) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi everyone. I haven’t posted for a while but I have a queation. I have just started on Cipramil for anxiety and panic disorder after having tried Aurorix and Effexor XR with no luck and a lot of side effects. Anyone have any info or experience with Cipramil? Thank You all

Response:

:Hi everyone. I haven’t posted for a while but I have a queation. I have just :started on Cipramil for anxiety and panic disorder after having tried :Aurorix and Effexor XR with no luck and a lot of side effects. : :Anyone have any info or experience with Cipramil? : :Thank You all Dear Wiseguy, I hope your doctor is starting you at a low dose and weaning you slowly onto the celexa. Usual starting dose for people with anxiety disorder is 5mgs, increasing that dose every week or so until you reach the prescribed dose. It is also a common practice to use a benzo such as xanax or klonopin while weaning on antidepressants. Give the celexa 6 to 8 weeks to kick in. Make sure to take it with food and/or water as to prevent any stomach irritation that some antidepressants can cause. You may also have to experiment with the time you take the dose to see what works best for you. I wish you much luck with your new med Jackie ~*~I am of nothing special; of this I am sure.   I am a common man with common thoughts, and I’ve led a common life.  There are no monuments dedicated to me and my name will soon be forgotten, but I’ve loved another with all my heart and soul, and to me, this has always been enough~*~  ~Nicholas Sparks~

Response:

Question:

I have been on Wellbutrin SR 150mg x 2 for 2 months now.  I have not noticed any difference.  Perhaps I am not really depressed or Wellbutrin isn’t the drug for me.  Anyway, I go to my doctor next week and I am wondering if I should tell him to take me off the Wellbutrin.  I don’t know if I should ask for another anti-depressant.  I don’t want to try any of the evil SSRIs so that would leave Effexor as one of my few choices.  But I heard it is very addictive.  What if it doesn’t work either and I have to withdraw from it? Diablo

Response:

Hi, Have your friends/coworkers/family members noticed any differences in you? I didn’t notice much of a change in me either until my friends started commenting that I didn’t seem as nervous as I used to. Good luck, Amanda – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have been on Wellbutrin SR 150mg x 2 for 2 months now.  I have not noticed any difference.  Perhaps I am not really depressed or Wellbutrin isn’t the drug for me.  Anyway, I go to my doctor next week and I am wondering if I should tell him to take me off the Wellbutrin.  I don’t know if I should ask for another anti-depressant.  I don’t want to try any of the evil SSRIs so that would leave Effexor as one of my few choices.  But I heard it is very addictive.  What if it doesn’t work either and I have to withdraw from it? Diablo

Response:

        Effexor is known to be ONE of the hardest ADs to ween oneself off of… If you want to call THAT addiction, so be it. It can be done quite well, but you need a good doc’s help to do it right or the advise of people here who have done it well. I’m only repeating what I’ve gleaned around these boards. The consensus seems to be that it’s a very good antidepressant, generally helping more people than Wellbutrin, which helps some very well, and many not at all. My opinion.. (my "test", if you will) is that if you FEEL depressed, you ARE depressed…(Ask yourself "Am I depressed?") If you answer "hell, yes" or even "yeah, sorta most of the time", then continue to seek an AD that "fits" you. Effexor is in actually an "SSRI-plus"…. by that I mean it functions as an SSRI but ALSO affects norepinephrine, which some of us seem to need for relief. Go for it, IMHO.

Response:

I’ve been on Wellbutrin for over  a yr, my pdoc switched me to Effexor. After 3 wks I still feel too sedated compared to Wellbutrin. I’ve even added a 150mg does of Wellbutrin to counter act the effexor. I’ve reduced toe effexor to 75mg daily with some relief. Personally, I liked the combo of Celexa and Wellbutrin, will consider this next visit. I’m very afraid of the withdrawal side effects with Effexor, that’s enough of a depressing thought to think about. Wellbutrin you come andgo with NO withdrawals. Just my 2 cents.Good Luck Den Dennis D

Response:

I’ve been on Wellbutrin for over  a yr, my pdoc switched me to Effexor. After 3 wks I still feel too sedated compared to Wellbutrin. I’ve even added a 150mg does of Wellbutrin to counter act the effexor. I’ve reduced toe effexor to 75mg daily with some relief. Personally, I liked the combo of Celexa and Wellbutrin, will consider this next visit. I’m very afraid of the withdrawal side effects with Effexor, that’s enough of a depressing thought to think about. Wellbutrin you come andgo with NO withdrawals. Just my 2 cents.Good Luck Den Dennis D

   Hi dennis,      How did you like the celexa and wellbutrin combo. I have a problem with bad mood disorder with constant racing thoughts? any side effects geno

Response:

I am on Effexor and Wellbuterin. Recently my pdoc was weaning me off Effexor. He tried Wellbuterin….totally bombed alone. He said it is not meant for major depressive episodes. Don’t be afraid to talk to your doctor, if you are not honest with him  how can he help you… And yes Effexor has some bad withdrawal. I just went through it and it was nasty. So nasty I bottomed out in depression, plus other affects. I had to have all my meds rearranged. It was quite the experience I care not to repeat. I went back on Effexor. Don’t let that stand in the way of your recovery. I would rather be on Effexor than any other AD. Why? Because it works. dd

Response:

The Celexa is slight sedating for me and personally I liked it until the Rx ran out and my doc changed it to Effexor. He also mentioned uping the Celexa to 40-60mg, that 20 was just too low. I’m also gewtting headaches from effexor. I’l give it a try for another month and then asked for the combo, but this time at 40mg Celexa. I was only on 150 of Wellbutrin (sometimes twice a day) Dennis Dennis D

Response:

Whats wrong with the SSRIs?The SSRIs are great, few hassles and easy to use. Who told you Effexor is very addictive? Thats total bullshit.

I don’t want to sound like Andrew, but I believe that SSRIs turn people into zombified Prozakians who go on shooting sprees.  After monitoring this newsgroup for many months I notice that people complain the most about SSRIs.  And several people have complained that Effexor is addictive. If I were to even contemplate an SSRI, what would be the best choice.  I already have made up my mind against Prozac and Paxil.  Luvox was what Eric Harris of Columbine had been taking and Zoloft is what Phil Hartman’s wife was taking when she shot him.  You can call these isolated instances but I have yet to see Wellbutrin implicated in any murder sprees. Diablo

Response:

Whats your dx Diable?

I originally went to the doctor because of an extended manic episode I had been having.  While manic episodes can occur by themselves, it is very rare to not have them accompanied by depression.  In retrospect I can recall extended periods where I seemed extremely depressed.  If I am bipolar, then the cycles are very long. I’m not even sure if I am depressed right now.  I wanted to try an a.d. to see if it would lift my mood.  And if I am bipolar, then eventually I will go into the depressive phase and will need an anti-depressant anyway. My doctor originally put me on Risperdal and clonazepam for the mania and they worked very well.  After a few months I asked for Wellbutrin.  I have felt no difference.  Perhaps Wellbutrin isn’t right for me.  I want to give another anti-depressant a try before giving up.  Effexor usually gets good reviews here but I am worried about its addictiveness. I did try Prozac once.  My mother stopped taking it and I snacked on her leftover pills for a few weeks.  I didn’t like the way it made me feel. The first time I took it it induced an LSD flashback.  Later I tried taking 4-5 pills at once and it made me feel very weird. Diablo

Response:

Despite my desperate post of today, I still believe Effexor is a great med. Twice in my life I tapered and stopped Paxil under a doctor’s care, and several months later each time, came the closest to being hospitalized after getting so depressed. When I had to go off the Effexor, I was depressed because it was working so well,and I knew what I was in for with the SSRIs. For what it’s worth, I had no problems stopping Effexor. I suffer from panic disorder and depression, and found Wellbutrin alone intolerable- I wanted to smash things,and it gave me panic attacks. Wellbutrin with Paxil seemed to alleviate some of the more disturbing side effects of the Paxil- my doctor said it was because chemically, that combination is most like Effexor. Good luck with whatever you decide!

Response:

In the future, I hope you specify WHY you have attitudes like you do about SSRIs. Someone with unipolar major depression or anxiety problems might read your posts and get terrified of taking SSRIs and stop them, while they very well may need them badly. SSRIs dont have the problems you mentioned in the unipolar depression and anxiety disorder populations, if anything its the exact opposite of what you earlier described.

Part of my attitude toward SSRIs comes from media reports.  Before I had even checked out these groups I would see constant media reports about some violent incident in which the perpetrator had been taking an SSRI.  I realize the majority of people taking them do not react this way (yet) but the long-term effects of them are still unknown.  I already mentioned Phil Hartmann’s wife (Zoloft), Eric Harris (Luvox), and that school shooter in El Cajon had also been taking some sort of anti-depressant.  Most disturbing is the fact that the media has done virtually no reporting on this connection.  Since we can assume the media is in the pocket of the powerful pharmaceutical industry, this lack of reporting is very suspicious. Diablo

Response:

Diablo lamictal might be a good thing for you to try if you are bipolar yet in the depressive phase. Lamictal is developing an excellent reputation as mood stabilizer, yet has antidepressant qualities to it.

Thanks, I’ll ask my doctor about it.  Is it addictive and what kind of side- effects can I expect. Diablo

Response:

You are first person i know of who found no effect on Wellbutrin though.  Lots of undeprssed people use it to quit smoking and they report lots of effects too.

Maybe I’m not really depressed.  But I really do not feel anything from it. No "energizing" effects.  The only thing it does is make my urine smell really bad.  I have been depressed in the past and a diagnosis of mania without depression would be really unusual.  Oh well, I’ll give Effexor a try and if that doesn’t work I’ll just give up for awhile. Diablo

Response:

if i were you id be asking bout mood stablizers,,, lot of lay people see my up swings in mood as manicy, and when mood stablizers arent suggested, it is effexor comes up a lot as suggested for me, whether my up swings seen as manicy or PTSD.

My doctor didn’t think a mood stabilizer was necessary.  I do not seem to suffer from rapid mood swings.  The Risperdal did the trick for the mania and now I want a happy pill.  I knew someone on Lithium and he was very slooooow.  Depakote has too many side-effects, including hair loss which I really don’t want. Have you ever seen the Kids in the Hall movie, "Brain Candy"? Diablo

Response:

Have you ever seen the Kids in the Hall movie, "Brain Candy"?

Not yet, but I’m a big "Kid’s in the hall" fan.

Response:

Have you ever seen the Kids in the Hall movie, "Brain Candy"? Not yet, but I’m a big "Kid’s in the hall" fan.

The movie is about a pharmaceutical company under heavy pressure to develop a new drug, so they release an anti-depressant before it has been properly tested.  The drug locks on to a person’s happiest memory but its side effect is that after several weeks the person turns into a zombie with a big grin. The moral of the story is that people aren’t supposed to be happy all the time. Diablo

Response:

exactly what effexor does..  cause a grin on myy face that i cant stop and is VERY painful after an hour or so. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Have you ever seen the Kids in the Hall movie, "Brain Candy"? Not yet, but I’m a big "Kid’s in the hall" fan. The movie is about a pharmaceutical company under heavy pressure to develop a new drug, so they release an anti-depressant before it has been properly tested.  The drug locks on to a person’s happiest memory but its side effect is that after several weeks the person turns into a zombie with a big grin. The moral of the story is that people aren’t supposed to be happy all the time. Diablo I saw an episode of one of the Trauma shows one night and some guy was in the ER after taking was he said was "street valium" and he had this big ol’ grin on his face and he couldn’t stop grinning.  In the ER he was telling the Doctors to "make it stop!" and the Dr’s were trying so hard not to laugh at this guy, but it was pretty funny.  Eventually after an hour or so I think the drug wore of and the guy was able to stop smiling and he left there none too happy.  But the ER staff was roaring with laughter.  I don’t know what the real drug was that he took, but nothin’ would wipe the smile off that guy’s face and his voice sounded like he was in pain.  Amazing reactions people have to drugs sometimes.

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all. Overall Im doing better and better. My hyper self seems to be kicking back in and that is some of my problem. Here the main one. Tue will start my 8th week I think or is it my 7th. dont remember. I was weaning on soooooo slow that Im not even up to 50mg yet but heres the ?. Im up to 37mg and cutting the 50mg off at the end. Less and less so I am probably close to 43 now. The day before yesterday I did soooo much stuff. Yesterday I started feeling the tremors like I had 10 cups of coffee. Breathing is ok. Just really jittery and shaky. The emotional stuff is not as bad either. I also have had a headache in my temples…tension..Tue I am going to take the full 50mg Zoloft. I need to get back to work and at a theraputic dose. If this shakyness is from even my increase Tue I can handle it. I still have my Xanax. What do you all think…Like I said I have been doing alot better. The fear to stay around the house has vanished except for yesterday and today. I probably do need to rest. This normal stuff for even 7-8weeks. I guess I thought I would be pretty much back to normal…..but getting there. Thanks Brenda

Brenda, It sounds like great progress. As you say you’re doing a lot better. I think you can take 50 mgs now and go to work and be fine. Slowly things will become more *routine-like* and you won’t notice every small change in your body or at least not in an unpleasant way which keeps you *catastrophizing* over it. There will be good days and not so good days, we all have them, but you have Xanax for when you need it.  Moreover, the Zoloft dose is still low. If this works that’s fantastic, if you have to decide somewhere along the road to take more it would be no problem at all. Enjoy your *new life*! Philip

Response:

Hi all. Overall Im doing better and better. My hyper self seems to be kicking back in and that is some of my problem. Here the main one. Tue will start my 8th week I think or is it my 7th. dont remember. I was weaning on soooooo slow that Im not even up to 50mg yet but heres the ?. Im up to 37mg and cutting the 50mg off at the end. Less and less so I am probably close to 43 now. The day before yesterday I did soooo much stuff. Yesterday I started feeling the tremors like I had 10 cups of coffee. Breathing is ok. Just really jittery and shaky. The emotional stuff is not as bad either. I also have had a headache in my temples…tension..Tue I am going to take the full 50mg Zoloft. I need to get back to work and at a theraputic dose. If this shakyness is from even my increase Tue I can handle it. I still have my Xanax. What do you all think…Like I said I have been doing alot better. The fear to stay around the house has vanished except for yesterday and today. I probably do need to rest. This normal stuff for even 7-8weeks. I guess I thought I would be pretty much back to normal…..but getting there. Thanks Brenda

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all. Overall Im doing better and better. My hyper self seems to be kicking back in and that is some of my problem. Here the main one. Tue will start my 8th week I think or is it my 7th. dont remember. I was weaning on soooooo slow that Im not even up to 50mg yet but heres the ?. Im up to 37mg and cutting the 50mg off at the end. Less and less so I am probably close to 43 now. The day before yesterday I did soooo much stuff. Yesterday I started feeling the tremors like I had 10 cups of coffee. Breathing is ok. Just really jittery and shaky. The emotional stuff is not as bad either. I also have had a headache in my temples…tension..Tue I am going to take the full 50mg Zoloft. I need to get back to work and at a theraputic dose. If this shakyness is from even my increase Tue I can handle it. I still have my Xanax. What do you all think…Like I said I have been doing alot better. The fear to stay around the house has vanished except for yesterday and today. I probably do need to rest. This normal stuff for even 7-8weeks. I guess I thought I would be pretty much back to normal…..but getting there. Thanks Brenda

Brenda –   It’s a slow process…I am starting week 8 myself (which means you are too I believe )…I noticed the shakes with each increase of Zoloft for a few days…this is probably what you are experiencing…The good part is that the shakes go away, but the feeling better doesn’t…Anyway, hang in there!  We’ll both get there – I know it!!!  I am still at the stage where the fear of having future attacks is a problem…Still need more time…At least my physiological symptoms are much better…Except for the last 2 days (see blood work 2 post) Best, — Charles Phipps

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