Question:

Hi!    I have felt both ways meaning when the doctors have increased/decreased the Prednisone I still have numberous attacks. I have come to the conclusion that I am very sensitive to alot of allergens. Sometimes I am just not sure what to do anymore.  I hope you feel better.   Sandy

Response:

I just tapered off a five day prednizone treatment, now I am off of it and on flovent and albuterol, has anyone felt  more asthma after coming off of pred?

Response:

James Yes. I had to extend the pred treatment to 10 days and taper off more slowly. Norman – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just tapered off a five day prednizone treatment, now I am off of it and on flovent and albuterol, has anyone felt  more asthma after coming off of pred?

Response:

Question:

I know that there has to be others on RAB that have asthma, take inhaled steroids and get tattooed.   I am new to the asthma thing, started taking Flovent in Dec. Anyway, some of it’s side effects are thinning of the skin, depleting the body of potassium, and bruising.. I take potassium for leg cramps due to this sometimes, but not on a regular basis. Got 3 hs of tattoo work yesterday on my arm and am very bruised.  It started showing up an hr after the tattoo.  I KNOW this is the med. so please don’t fault the dear artist who was very light handed as I told him of the possibility of this.  I am just kinda shocked that it is this extensive and am concerned that this med is destroying me inside out… the questions: Any tattoo artists with experience with this?  Seen it before? Any asthma peoples with experiences similar and  any suggestions?   My thought is to take my potassium regularly (we have lots more work to do) and hope for the best. Wish I could just quit the meds but I gotta breathe. Tattoo Artists:  If ya see inhaled steroids on a release form for medications your customer is taking let them know there is a possibility of bruising.  Altho they may already know this from how easily they bruise anyway…. Emily Tessier Under The Surface

Response:

I know that there has to be others on RAB that have asthma, take inhaled steroids and get tattooed. I am new to the asthma thing, started taking Flovent in Dec. Anyway, some of it’s side effects are thinning of the skin, depleting the body of potassium, and bruising..

I use a similar product, Pulmicort, and have never experienced such side effects! I actually did a search on Flovent but didn’t find any extensive listings of possible side effects… I know I’ve never heard of these side effects concerning Pulmicort, and I have read a lot about it. I like to know what I’m doing to my body! Perhaps you could talk to your doctor about switching to Pulmicort, if this would alleviate your problems? Ulf

Response:

I know that there has to be others on RAB that have asthma, take inhaled steroids and get tattooed. I am new to the asthma thing, started taking Flovent in Dec. Anyway, some of it’s side effects are thinning of the skin, depleting the body of potassium, and bruising..

Did your doctor tell you this? Those would be side effects of steroids administered systemically (not sure about the bruising though, I’ll look it up), not topically. From http://www.rxmed.com/monographs/flovent.html: "Fluticasone is a highly potent glucocorticoid anti-inflammatory steroid with strong topical and negligible systemic activity. When administered by inhalation at therapeutic dosages, it has a direct potent anti-inflammatory action within the lungs, resulting in reduced symptoms and exacerbations of asthma without the adverse effects observed when corticosteroids are administered systemically. (…) A portion of an inhaled dose will be swallowed; however, oral bioavailability of fluticasone approaches zero due to poor absorption and extensive first-pass metabolism. Following oral administration, 87 to 100% of the dose is excreted in the feces (…) Adverse Effects: No major side effects attributable to the use of fluticasone have been reported. (…) Candidiasis: Therapeutic dosages frequently cause the appearance of C. albicans (thrush) in the mouth and throat." This means that the fluticasone you inhale does not enter the bloodstream, and that what you swallow is not taken up to an extent that could cause systemic side effects. There must be a different reason for the bruising. I think you should talk to your doc about this. I checked a German drug reference and it said the same things. I take potassium for leg cramps due to this sometimes, but not on a regular basis.

Leg cramps are often associated with magnesium deficiency also. Nina — http://members.xoom.com/critterwoman Seeing that water is so important for life, it has to be a decision by an intelligent being to make water from H2O and not Oil from H2O.      -from alt.atheism.satire

Response:

hmm, I’m asthmatic, tattooed, and until Thursday, had never bruised. I thought my bruising was caused because it is an arm opiece, and the skin on the inner arm is more delicate…also because my arm is a _little_ flabby (lol) and the tattooist had to hold the skin taut….oh well.. carmen (with a beautiful new tattoo on her flabby arm.)xxx — "I feel much better now that I’ve abandoned all hope". – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I know that there has to be others on RAB that have asthma, take inhaled steroids and get tattooed. I am new to the asthma thing, started taking Flovent in Dec. Anyway, some of it’s side effects are thinning of the skin, depleting the body of potassium, and bruising.. Did your doctor tell you this? Those would be side effects of steroids administered systemically (not sure about the bruising though, I’ll look it up), not topically. From http://www.rxmed.com/monographs/flovent.html: "Fluticasone is a highly potent glucocorticoid anti-inflammatory steroid with strong topical and negligible systemic activity. When administered by inhalation at therapeutic dosages, it has a direct potent anti-inflammatory action within the lungs, resulting in reduced symptoms and exacerbations of asthma without the adverse effects observed when corticosteroids are administered systemically. (…) A portion of an inhaled dose will be swallowed; however, oral bioavailability of fluticasone approaches zero due to poor absorption and extensive first-pass metabolism. Following oral administration, 87 to 100% of the dose is excreted in the feces (…) Adverse Effects: No major side effects attributable to the use of fluticasone have been reported. (…) Candidiasis: Therapeutic dosages frequently cause the appearance of C. albicans (thrush) in the mouth and throat." This means that the fluticasone you inhale does not enter the bloodstream, and that what you swallow is not taken up to an extent that could cause systemic side effects. There must be a different reason for the bruising. I think you should talk to your doc about this. I checked a German drug reference and it said the same things. I take potassium for leg cramps due to this sometimes, but not on a regular basis. Leg cramps are often associated with magnesium deficiency also. Nina — http://members.xoom.com/critterwoman Seeing that water is so important for life, it has to be a decision by an intelligent being to make water from H2O and not Oil from H2O.      -from alt.atheism.satire

Response:

Your asthma inhaler should not cause you all this harm. I have been on soo many asthma meds, and never a problem like that. I take a pill to, this pill is called singulair (so far has proven itself to be the best controller). This pill makes the body produce less phlegm, and has no steroid properties. I also do asthmacort, and Proventil HFA. all of these are good, and I have never had problems like that. I do infact have problems w the IV steroids, but that is so different. Please ask your doc if you could try the non steroidal pill… it works wonderz! — "~LOBE

Question:

Hey moron, solar cells work at night too! We have these little things called batteries, you fucking idiot. "Bill Bonde, one of many Fair and Balanced Conservatives, AKA Spike, currently brunching on extra juicy ortolans, where do you put the beaks

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "It is a massively fragile Rube Goldberg device that dangerously and inefficiently carts around electricity from expensive, polluting and extremely unsafe central generating plants… The technology for a decentralized, solar-based power system is ready now. We don’t need massive research breakthroughs…" Does anyone out there actually believe this stuff? In 1952 a Blue Ribbon report to Harry Truman predicted that the future of America’s energy rested with the sun.  It predicted 13 million solar-powered homes here by 1975, and the promise of decentralized, off-grid self-sufficiency. Instead, Dwight Eisenhower took us into the pit of the "Peaceful Atom".  A trillion dollars later, we have a half-century of crashing grids and dangerous nukes that are vulnerable to terrorism and must shut down precisely when they’re most needed, as they did during this latest blackout. I suppose your solar power won’t shut down when it’s most needed, at night. The latest Bush energy bill only makes the situation worse, with more nuke subsidies and a powerful push for fossil fuels, especially coal. Nuclear power and coal are the only practical major new sources of energy right now. Nuclear power is especially attractive. The whole system demands a green deconstruction.  Solar technologies are ready to make energy self-sufficiency a tangible reality. Photovoltaic cells on rooftops and embedded in windows can produce grid-free electricity, with battery or fuel-cell backups. Do you know what fuel cells cost? Geothermal power can heat and cool with nothing but the power of the earth’s crust. Sure but it isn’t available everywhere and where it is, tapping it too hard can cause negative effects in on nearby national treasures such as Yellow Stone. Methane digestion can turn waste into usable gas.  Basement generators can use biomass fuels like ethanol and soy diesel for off-grid self-sufficiency. These systems need not provide 100% of a building’s energy, but can gradually make them increasingly self-sufficient. If they don’t provide 100% of the build’s needs, then we will still need a grid. Meanwhile more efficient heating, lighting and cooling systems can reduce demand. Windows that actually open and close can balance usage, building by building. Bush’s "upgrading the grid" means a new money pit for the same old unsafe nukes, polluting coal burners and gas turbines whose prices are set to skyrocket all looped together by dangerous, wasteful wires that are bound to crash again and again. Almost all of the alternative sources of energy are not available on demand. Coal, nuclear, gas, are available on demand. A grid could be used to transfer power from where there is a temporary surplus to where it is needed. That’s what is done now. Doing away with that seems like a negative for those who want to run homes in cloudy areas on solar power. San Francisco has used part of a public bond to put the first of a new generation of solar cells atop its downtown Moscone Center.  Those same cells could’ve kept Madison Square Garden or any other Manhattan building up and running during this latest outage.  Will New Yorkers know better next time? The person who wrote this didn’t bother to even do the most basic of math. Geez. What if the outage had occurred in the Winter? At night?

Response:

"It is a massively fragile Rube Goldberg device that dangerously and inefficiently carts around electricity from expensive, polluting and extremely unsafe central generating plants… The technology for a decentralized, solar-based power system is ready now. We don’t need massive research breakthroughs…"

Does anyone out there actually believe this stuff? In 1952 a Blue Ribbon report to Harry Truman predicted that the future of America’s energy rested with the sun.  It predicted 13 million solar-powered homes here by 1975, and the promise of decentralized, off-grid self-sufficiency. Instead, Dwight Eisenhower took us into the pit of the "Peaceful Atom".  A trillion dollars later, we have a half-century of crashing grids and dangerous nukes that are vulnerable to terrorism and must shut down precisely when they’re most needed, as they did during this latest blackout.

I suppose your solar power won’t shut down when it’s most needed, at night. The latest Bush energy bill only makes the situation worse, with more nuke subsidies and a powerful push for fossil fuels, especially coal.

Nuclear power and coal are the only practical major new sources of energy right now. Nuclear power is especially attractive. The whole system demands a green deconstruction.  Solar technologies are ready to make energy self-sufficiency a tangible reality. Photovoltaic cells on rooftops and embedded in windows can produce grid-free electricity, with battery or fuel-cell backups.

Do you know what fuel cells cost? Geothermal power can heat and cool with nothing but the power of the earth’s crust.  

Sure but it isn’t available everywhere and where it is, tapping it too hard can cause negative effects in on nearby national treasures such as Yellow Stone. Methane digestion can turn waste into usable gas.  Basement generators can use biomass fuels like ethanol and soy diesel for off-grid self-sufficiency. These systems need not provide 100% of a building’s energy, but can gradually make them increasingly self-sufficient.

If they don’t provide 100% of the build’s needs, then we will still need a grid. Meanwhile more efficient heating, lighting and cooling systems can reduce demand. Windows that actually open and close can balance usage, building by building. Bush’s "upgrading the grid" means a new money pit for the same old unsafe nukes, polluting coal burners and gas turbines whose prices are set to skyrocket all looped together by dangerous, wasteful wires that are bound to crash again and again.

Almost all of the alternative sources of energy are not available on demand. Coal, nuclear, gas, are available on demand. A grid could be used to transfer power from where there is a temporary surplus to where it is needed. That’s what is done now. Doing away with that seems like a negative for those who want to run homes in cloudy areas on solar power. San Francisco has used part of a public bond to put the first of a new generation of solar cells atop its downtown Moscone Center.  Those same cells could’ve kept Madison Square Garden or any other Manhattan building up and running during this latest outage.  Will New Yorkers know better next time?

The person who wrote this didn’t bother to even do the most basic of math. Geez. What if the outage had occurred in the Winter? At night?

Response:

"It is a massively fragile Rube Goldberg device that dangerously and inefficiently carts around electricity from expensive, polluting and extremely unsafe central generating plants… The technology for a decentralized, solar-based power system is ready now. We don’t need massive research breakthroughs…" "San Francisco has used part of a public bond to put the first of a new generation of solar cells atop its downtown Moscone Center.  Those same cells could’ve kept Madison Square Garden or any other Manhattan building up and running during this latest outage.  Will New Yorkers know better next time?" The latest bogus fossil-nuke blackout: this grid should not exist by Harvey Wasserman, August 15, 2003 This is the fourth—and worst—completely unnecessary major regional blackout in this country in forty years, dating back to 1965. It’s scope—from Detroit to Ottawa to New York and New Jersey—is absolutely awesome, especially since it’s due to total stupidity and corruption. This does not count the blackouts that raged through California in 2000-2001.  Those were "blackmails," set by Enron and the other Bush gas cronies to rip $60 billion out of the state, leading to, among other things, the impending ouster of Gov. Gray Davis. When the lights went out, Davis kissed the feet of Southern California Edison’s John Bryson, who engineered a deregulation bill that gouged $30 billion out of the ratepayers for the state’s failed nukes.  That opened the gates for the gas pirates to steal yet another $60 billion. Davis got caught in the backdraft. The culprits in this latest northeastern disaster are basically the same—the barons of fossil and nuclear power and their cronies in the electric utility business. Their "weapon" is an ancient electric grid that’s obsolete if not obscene.   It is a massively fragile Rube Goldberg device that dangerously and inefficiently carts around electricity from expensive, polluting and extremely unsafe central generating plants to buildings that waste massive amounts of energy and generate none. That the grid will crash again and again and yet again is absolutely certain.  The only question is who are the real terrorists:  errant crazies who blow things up, or entrenched interests that refuse to change? The technology now exists to transcend this mess.  In the mid 1990s California’s green energy advocates proposed a 600-megawatt mosaic of solar, wind and other renewable generators that would have entirely prevented the fake deregulatory crisis of 2000-1.  It was approved by the California Public Utilities Commission, but then killed by Southern California Edison and the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission. Today, the Bush Administration wants to further subsidize its fossil/utility friends with a bad energy bill, and by pouring billions into "upgrading" the electric grid.  The only thing certain is that every cent of that money will be wasted. In 1952 a Blue Ribbon report to Harry Truman predicted that the future of America’s energy rested with the sun.  It predicted 13 million solar-powered homes here by 1975, and the promise of decentralized, off-grid self-sufficiency. Instead, Dwight Eisenhower took us into the pit of the "Peaceful Atom".  A trillion dollars later, we have a half-century of crashing grids and dangerous nukes that are vulnerable to terrorism and must shut down precisely when they’re most needed, as they did during this latest blackout.  The latest Bush energy bill only makes the situation worse, with more nuke subsidies and a powerful push for fossil fuels, especially coal. The whole system demands a green deconstruction.  Solar technologies are ready to make energy self-sufficiency a tangible reality. Photovoltaic cells on rooftops and embedded in windows can produce grid-free electricity, with battery or fuel-cell backups.  Geothermal power can heat and cool with nothing but the power of the earth’s crust.  Methane digestion can turn waste into usable gas.  Basement generators can use biomass fuels like ethanol and soy diesel for off-grid self-sufficiency. These systems need not provide 100% of a building’s energy, but can gradually make them increasingly self-sufficient.  Meanwhile more efficient heating, lighting and cooling systems can reduce demand. Windows that actually open and close can balance usage, building by building. Bush’s "upgrading the grid" means a new money pit for the same old unsafe nukes, polluting coal burners and gas turbines whose prices are set to skyrocket all looped together by dangerous, wasteful wires that are bound to crash again and again. San Francisco has used part of a public bond to put the first of a new generation of solar cells atop its downtown Moscone Center.  Those same cells could’ve kept Madison Square Garden or any other Manhattan building up and running during this latest outage.  Will New Yorkers know better next time? The technology for a decentralized, solar-based power system is ready now. We don’t need massive research breakthroughs. We need public demand and fully funded production capacity.  And to stop repeating the same mistakes because the utility and fossil/nuke guys fund the politicians in power. This isn’t rocket science.  It’s just common solar sense, known to all since 1952. Harvey Wasserman is author of THE LAST ENERGY WAR and senior editor of www.freepress.org. CONTACT THE FREE PRESS: PRINT: 1240 Bryden Road Columbus, Ohio 43209 Ph/Fx 614.253.2571 SOURCE: http://www.freepress.org/columns.php?strFunc=display&strID=735&strYea… Author=7 = = = = STILL FEELING LIKE THE MAINSTREAM U.S. CORPORATE MEDIA IS GIVING A FULL HONEST PICTURE OF WHAT’S GOING ON? = = = = More information: Daily Online 2 hour radio show reporting: www.DemocracyNow.org = = = = Sorry we cannot read/reply to most usenet posts but welcome email For more information: http://EconomicDemocracy.org/wtc/ (peace) And http://EconomicDemocracy.org/ (general)

Response:

Question:

On Mon, 28 Jul 2003 15:51:24 GMT, "Dee" <particl…@earthlink.net

wrote:

Norma, I am SO bad about thinking about ME ….

there’s a silly line from Ally McBeal where one character says "Why is everything always about you?"  Her answer, I believe, is "because it’s my life."  something to that effect.  of course you’re thinking about you. You are in pain and scared and that is how humans look at the world – through their eyes.

I have to say this: I have been told by a therapist at one time … that I have a small amount of borderline personality disorder.  I know I do .. cause I’ve read about it … and I fit it perfectly!  All except the wanting to commit suicide and cutting myself .. ick .. would never do that!

I would like to clarify – cutting (self-injury in general) is not a property of borderline personality disorder.  I’m sure "borderlines" do sometimes have this problem but it is not part and parcel of the disorder but a seperate issue that can be seen in the most otherwise mentally healthy individual.  Suicidal ideation is also not solely attributable to BPD and in fact the BPD people I know well do not have any desire to commit suicide.  I see more of each of these problems in bipolar disorder as well as in unipolar depression.  Are you getting treatment other than a therp saying you have BPD tendencies?  

BUT … part of the condition is being completely absorbed into the man in your life … and not being able to let go of what ‘he’s’ thinking ..

I think that is part of you.  The BPD individual I am closest to, really could care less about what her family, friends or significant other thinks or feels.

feeling .. doing.  And jealousy and trust is a HUGE thing for me!  

trust should be a huge thing.  Jealousy is something we can learn to deal with but trust is critical to any relationship.  You can not trust him, he’s shown you that.  

I’m seriously thinking of asking my doctor for an antidepressant during this time.. cause I KNOW if left on my own …. I’ll go crazy and do some damage to my system by the worrying and obsessions.

please do check into it.  But also make sure that this doc knows as much about meds and BPD as possible.  Some of the antidepressants can aggravate the anxiety levels of a situation and make it tougher for you to cope rather than easier.  I am not well-versed in treating BPD but fairly familiar with treating depression (bipolar or unipolar) and would recommend you talk to a good therp as well as a good psychiatrist (prescribing doc.)  

He did prescribe Zoloft for me once .. but I never took them .. threw them away … maybe he’ll just call them in for me.  I’m very scared to take them … cause I’m on meds for hypertension and rapid heartbeat, and I think they raise the blood pressure … will have to talk to him about it.  But I do know I may need something … for the obsessivness .. or I’ll just lose it!

some of the SRIs and SSRIs like zoloft, effexor and so on can increase BP.  I didn’t have this problem when I was on effexor but it sure had other side effects.  I don’t know if a tricyclic is the right treatment for you but I do know that this type of AD tends to lower b.p.  It can also increase your appetite tremendously.  I take Remeron now and then for that purpose only – one dose gives me 2-3 days of appetite and keeps me at a safe weight (I’m too thin – the disease prevents me from properly absorbing nutrients.)  The best known tricyclic is Elavil (Amitryptiline.)  I took Trazadone for sleep – a tricyclic not really that effective for depression – and it lowered my b.p. too much.  I had "brown outs" several times a day and had to stop the drug.

PS… if I sound ungrateful or bitchy .. I truly don’t mean to come across that way … I’m just really hurting today!

likewise -if we sound preachy and know-it-all it’s ’cause we want to help. kcat

Response:

What she said!! I’ve been there too- and while it is hard, it’s so freeing to be away from abuse.  I think you might find that you will feel better physically too… the stress of this whole things being behind you. My marriage to an abusive man broke up 6 years ago and I look back now, see how God carried me through it, and see where I am now–  and would do it over in a heartbeat. Hang in there! -Kristin "Opinion8d" <mm…@cox.net

wrote in message

news:ceoVa.151933$o86.40550@news1.central.cox.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Dee" <particl…@earthlink.net

wrote in message

> news:7F9Va.122682$Io.10500495@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net… > > I’m just gonna vent and spill out my feelings for a bit .. hope you don’t

mind … I sit here feeling terrible … as expected I’m sure.  I know it seems that when a bad thing stops, it’s suppose to be good … but not so … at least not right away.  How could I make him leave his home?  The only place he knew?  His office sits there with his computer, his papers … books .. software .. he SO wanted to learn Dreamweaver … I sit here crying as I type … cause I’m not so sure I wasn’t the one who made this go bad. [snip]    I hate this!!  I know .. time .. time .. time .. but what if I made a mistake? ?????? I’m done now …. anybody? Dee Hi Dee. Can you feel the virtual arms of your pals here around you?? The first year is the worst……and yes, we tend to put ourselves on more severe guilt trips than the former "other" could ever dream up on their

own.

Your reactions to the emotions surging through your life are normal and natural. Acknowledge the anger, the frustration, guilt, and jealousy (the fear of

him

rebounding directly into another woman’s arms)……cry about it, scream about it, rag on and on to all your friends about it…………and

everyday

remind yourself that you MUST look after your own interests. Ahw hell……just read your post "Trying to Understand My Husband" over your morning coffee………that should help reinforce all the reasons

that

you have made your decision to remove the source of negativity that can

only

be described as destructive.    I know it would for me!! Yeah, I said and did all those things you mentioned when my first husband and I split……if only I had………if only things could have been different…….if only I was a better {insert your choice here}……..on and on and on………….. I entertained all sorts of crazy fantasies………ones that always ended with my daughter and I starting over in a new place with new names, and never worrying about the presence of the beast again………eventually I quit running from my emotions. I sat down and had the biggest cry of my life!!  A couple of hours later I felt calm and had an amazingly clear headed……..in that moment, I determined that I would not let the beast haunt me……..this is my life and I a responsible for my own destiny………God gave me all the tools

and

knowledge to survive and take care of myself — it was up to me to utilize them. The hardest thing for anyone to do is leave an abusive relationship…….and abuse comes in many more forms that the traditional smack in the choppers……you are the victim here.  From this day forward it is up to you………live your life as a victim, or face your future

with

hope and expectations of success. The road you are on now is rough and full of boulders………this too

shall

pass……..stick to your resolve, and make YOUR life happen.  In time,

the

pain begins to ease, and you can reflect on that relationship with a new perspective that allows you to move forward without any guilt or shame. Get a copy of "Women Who Love Too Much"  from your library…….block off an entire day, and read it cover to cover.  I cried most of the way

through

it…..tears of recognition……..tears of resolve…….tears of guilt

and

frustration……..and later, tears of relief.  I had recognized that I

was

in an unhealthy relationship and had the wisdom and courage to get out of it…….through the tears I learned what events in my life had influenced the decisions I had made, and how to recognize and avoid stimuli that triggered poor relationship choices. Marie

Response:

"Dee" <particl…@earthlink.net

wrote in message

news:7F9Va.122682$Io.10500495@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net…

I’m just gonna vent and spill out my feelings for a bit .. hope you don’t mind … I sit here feeling terrible … as expected I’m sure.  I know it seems

that

when a bad thing stops, it’s suppose to be good … but not so … at

least

not right away.  How could I make him leave his home?  The only place he knew?  His office sits there with his computer, his papers … books .. software .. he SO wanted to learn Dreamweaver … I sit here crying as I type … cause I’m not so sure I wasn’t the one who made this go bad.

[snip]

   I hate this!!  I know .. time .. time .. time .. but what if I made a mistake? ?????? I’m done now …. anybody? Dee

Hi Dee. Can you feel the virtual arms of your pals here around you?? The first year is the worst……and yes, we tend to put ourselves on more severe guilt trips than the former "other" could ever dream up on their own. Your reactions to the emotions surging through your life are normal and natural. Acknowledge the anger, the frustration, guilt, and jealousy (the fear of him rebounding directly into another woman’s arms)……cry about it, scream about it, rag on and on to all your friends about it…………and everyday remind yourself that you MUST look after your own interests. Ahw hell……just read your post "Trying to Understand My Husband" over your morning coffee………that should help reinforce all the reasons that you have made your decision to remove the source of negativity that can only be described as destructive.    I know it would for me!! Yeah, I said and did all those things you mentioned when my first husband and I split……if only I had………if only things could have been different…….if only I was a better {insert your choice here}……..on and on and on………….. I entertained all sorts of crazy fantasies………ones that always ended with my daughter and I starting over in a new place with new names, and never worrying about the presence of the beast again………eventually I quit running from my emotions. I sat down and had the biggest cry of my life!!  A couple of hours later I felt calm and had an amazingly clear headed……..in that moment, I determined that I would not let the beast haunt me……..this is my life and I a responsible for my own destiny………God gave me all the tools and knowledge to survive and take care of myself — it was up to me to utilize them. The hardest thing for anyone to do is leave an abusive relationship…….and abuse comes in many more forms that the traditional smack in the choppers……you are the victim here.  From this day forward it is up to you………live your life as a victim, or face your future with hope and expectations of success. The road you are on now is rough and full of boulders………this too shall pass……..stick to your resolve, and make YOUR life happen.  In time, the pain begins to ease, and you can reflect on that relationship with a new perspective that allows you to move forward without any guilt or shame. Get a copy of "Women Who Love Too Much"  from your library…….block off an entire day, and read it cover to cover.  I cried most of the way through it…..tears of recognition……..tears of resolve…….tears of guilt and frustration……..and later, tears of relief.  I had recognized that I was in an unhealthy relationship and had the wisdom and courage to get out of it…….through the tears I learned what events in my life had influenced the decisions I had made, and how to recognize and avoid stimuli that triggered poor relationship choices. Marie

Response:

Dee, I have been sitting in your position in the past.  Please trust us on the NG here, that you made the right decision…it is hard because you are afraid. I have at least 5 major health disorders and I have emotional disorders as well.  In the past the completely bizarre feeling that if my husband leaves I will literally *disappear*–some strange feeling of getting "lost" and never getting found again.  These feeling have a completely logical basis for little children, but sometimes as adults we don’t realize that we have not outgrown all of them. You do need to think about supporting yourself, and not overdoing yourself. the best thing he can give you, rather than "the large monitor and the mouse" is temporary support.  Depending on the state you live in the court can order it.  Get as much as you can for as long as you can, and you should know that amount right up front.  that will bring your anxiety level down several notches. Take things in little steps.  I have so much more I could tell you, but this is so much right here.  I didn’t have time to read all of your posts… but I will go back. When the feelings get really bad, just find something to do.  And we are here for you. It’s gonna be okay. But more imortantly, it *is* okay, right now. I’ts okay.  It IS okay. You’re not bleeding. Take a deep breath. the house is not on fire. Take a deep breath. Your heart hurts badly Cry and feel the hurt Its okay to be hurting Its not fun, but its okay Take a deep breath. Mair "Dee" <particl…@earthlink.net

wrote in message

news:7F9Va.122682$Io.10500495@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

I’m just gonna vent and spill out my feelings for a bit .. hope you don’t mind … I sit here feeling terrible … as expected I’m sure.  I know it seems

that

when a bad thing stops, it’s suppose to be good … but not so … at

least

not right away.  How could I make him leave his home?  The only place he knew?  His office sits there with his computer, his papers … books .. software .. he SO wanted to learn Dreamweaver … I sit here crying as I type … cause I’m not so sure I wasn’t the one who made this go bad. I know .. you will say I’m blaming myself … and letting him get to me

…

but no .. not really .. I guess I’m really trying to be  honest with

myself.

I wasn’t the perfect wife by no means … I mean… I know the REASON I yelled at him … and bitched … was because he hurt me .. and wasn’t

there

for me.. but he wasn’t there for me the way "I" wanted him to be … the

way

I needed.   Was that HIS fault?  Or was it just that he wasn’t the man I needed .. and never could be … and all my yellling and bitching … and calling him names .. and yes I admit .. I did call him so pretty bad things… did any of that help?  No!  All it did was push him further from me … and hurt him inside.  I guess I wish he were feeling these things

too

… it would make it easier on me .. that he’s hurting too .. that he’s sorry HE hurt ME too … He did so many things for me … while married … and before he left ..

he

set me up with my own business in the beginning .. not pushing me to work … and just work on my business … I did that for many years .. and did bring in some income .. but I would quit one idea and go to the next .. so my business never really took off good … nor did I ever make allot of money from it.  He worked hard .. all the time … and he never gave me a problem about working.  ok .. a few times he would say maybe I should go

to

work … and to tell the truth, back before I got sick … I just hated working!  I would find excuses … and he would accept them. Now .. I truly am sick … and it’s hard to imagine myself working full

time

… I’m almost positive I can’t.  I’m not sure about part time … I do

know

that I’m painting … and selling the paintings a little on ebay.  I just made a few cloth dolls and sold a them on ebay also.  I have an idea I’m working on with a few other women … with dolls .. and it might go over well and bring in some income … and I’ve thought of having home shows

with

dolls that other folks make … and I resell .. but I’m not sure I have

the

energy for that either.  I’d really love to work on my paintings … and sell them more often. I may HAVE to go to work part time…. but it scares me so! He did so many things he didn’t have to do .. before he left …. he gave

me

his BIG monitor .. his new mouse, and ALL his memory … so I could have a nice computer system to work with.  He also gave me the printer.  He took out the mattress he had been sleeping on this morning before going to work … and he put his clothes in a plastic garbage bag.    :-( It hurt me so much to see him have to give up everything!  I had a short talk with him before he left … and told him that I’ve tried to do this

as

nice as I can … and that he knew we had to separate, that he wanted it

too

… and there was no easy way of doing it.  I told him I was so sorry that he had no money or place to stay … but I was scared for myself too … what I’m going to do … where I’m getting the money to live. He acted

upset

.. and hurt … more upset .. annoyed .. angry .. and that made me feel worse. I just don’t know … I’m so confused!  I’m SO scared that he’ll be in another woman’s arms soon … he’s in the pitcrew for his newphews racing team … and at the track there are so many opportunities.  I still do

love

him .. and yet I know he hurt me … and I know he wasn’t good for me in many ways … yet I hurt him too, and I wasn’t good for him.    I hate this!!  I know .. time .. time .. time .. but what if I made a mistake? ?????? I’m done now …. anybody? Dee

Response:

Honey, I know you are hurting. It is the biggest hurt in the world.  Like my mom has told me "once you get over this hurt, a man will never be able to hurt you like that again"  That has been true for me. There are a lot of things you can’t see right now. Believe me, his guilt is not your guilt. We all have been jealousy at one time or another and that is a nasty emotion, but you can overcome this day. Whenever you are ready I am here.  Cry it out. Then one day you will wonder why you shed those tears over a damn man.  Honey, he or no other man is worth it. I’m just trying to be as honest with you as I can. Don’t get mad at any of us for trying to help, please. It can piss you off, but we are thinking about you not him. Norma "Dee" <particl…@earthlink.net

wrote in message

news:0EbVa.25257$Mc.1957704@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Norma, I am SO bad about thinking about ME …. I have to say this: I have been told by a therapist at one time … that I have a small amount of borderline personality disorder.  I know I do .. cause I’ve read about it … and I fit it perfectly!  All except the

wanting

to commit suicide and cutting myself .. ick .. would never do that! BUT … part of the condition is being completely absorbed into the man in your life … and not being able to let go of what ‘he’s’ thinking .. feeling .. doing.  And jealousy and trust is a HUGE thing for me!  I mean

I

get SO hysterical .. that I’ll do some pretty stupid things out of jealousy!!  I dwell and dwell on what he’s doing when I’m not there …

how

he’ll be with women .. what they’ll do .. say … where they’ll go… how much happier he’ll be without me .. how much nicer they’ll treat him .. that somebody else .. younger, and healthier will treat him better .. and make him happy … and that will just KILL me … it will do me in, I

swear!

That’s how I am!!  I hate it … but it’s a reality! I’m seriously thinking of asking my doctor for an antidepressant during

this

time.. cause I KNOW if left on my own …. I’ll go crazy and do some

damage

to my system by the worrying and obsessions. He did prescribe Zoloft for me once .. but I never took them .. threw them away … maybe he’ll just call them in for me.  I’m very scared to take

them

… cause I’m on meds for hypertension and rapid heartbeat, and I think

they

raise the blood pressure … will have to talk to him about it.  But I do know I may need something … for the obsessivness .. or I’ll just lose

it!

Thanks so much for being here … As for ‘guilt’ .. as soon as I read what you said … and J too … I got defensive .. I mean .. inside my head and heart .. I said … NO .. he wasn’t making me feel guilty .. he  did it to be nice … he wanted me to have a nice computer when he was gone … and I still think that. Yes, I might consider talking on the phone .. maybe not just yet …

today’s > a hard day … crying lots and bleeding hard… some combination .. huh? > Thanks so much … truly I mean that! > Hugs, > Dee > PS… if I sound ungrateful or bitchy .. I truly don’t mean to come across > that way … I’m just really hurting today! > Norma <lup…@hotmail.com

wrote in message

> news:viag6pkd7vrc76@corp.supernews.com… > > Dee Dee Dee: > > Bless your heart. I know the pain seems impossible now, but you will be > > okay. Yes, time is the answer. It will get better day to day, week to > week. > > Honey, it takes two to make a marriage and it takes two to break a > marriage. > > Stop placing the all blame on yourself. > > According to his background you should be appalled. The only reason he > > "left" you the computer, etc. is called "GUILT".  He knows he’s done > wrong, > > but won’t admit it.  However, that is no reason, just an excuse. > > Get your feelings straightened out and get on with it.  Yes, dear it does > > take time and we’ve all been there, so know, that it will get better. > > If you want to send me a private email with your phone number, I will be > > glad to call you and talk. > > You have to concentrate on feeling better. That is the #1 priority. > > Thinking of you, > > Norma > > "Dee" <particl…@earthlink.net

wrote in message

> > news:7F9Va.122682$Io.10500495@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net… > > > I’m just gonna vent and spill out my feelings for a bit .. hope you > don’t > > > mind … > > > I sit here feeling terrible … as expected I’m sure.  I know it seems > > that > > > when a bad thing stops, it’s suppose to be good … but not so … at > > least > > > not right away.  How could I make him leave his home?  The only place he

knew?  His office sits there with his computer, his papers … books

..

software .. he SO wanted to learn Dreamweaver … I sit here crying as

I

type … cause I’m not so sure I wasn’t the one who made this go bad. I know .. you will say I’m blaming myself … and letting him get to

me

… but no .. not really .. I guess I’m really trying to be  honest with myself. I wasn’t the perfect wife by no means … I mean… I know the REASON

I

yelled at him … and bitched … was because he hurt me .. and wasn’t there for me.. but he wasn’t there for me the way "I" wanted him to be …

the

way I needed.   Was that HIS fault?  Or was it just that he wasn’t the man

I

needed .. and never could be … and all my yellling and bitching … and calling him names .. and yes I admit .. I did call him so pretty bad things… did any of that help?  No!  All it did was push him further from me … and hurt him inside.  I guess I wish he were feeling these

things

too … it would make it easier on me .. that he’s hurting too .. that

he’s

sorry HE hurt ME too … He did so many things for me … while married … and before he left

..

he set me up with my own business in the beginning .. not pushing me to work … and just work on my business … I did that for many years .. and did bring in some income .. but I would quit one idea and go to the next

..

so my business never really took off good … nor did I ever make allot

of

money from it.  He worked hard .. all the time … and he never gave

me

a problem about working.  ok .. a few times he would say maybe I should

go

to work … and to tell the truth, back before I got sick … I just

hated

working!  I would find excuses … and he would accept them. Now .. I truly am sick … and it’s hard to imagine myself working

full

time … I’m almost positive I can’t.  I’m not sure about part time … I

do

know that I’m painting … and selling the paintings a little on ebay.  I just made a few cloth dolls and sold a them on ebay also.  I have an idea

I’m

working on with a few other women … with dolls .. and it might go

over

well and bring in some income … and I’ve thought of having home

shows

with dolls that other folks make … and I resell .. but I’m not sure I

have

the energy for that either.  I’d really love to work on my paintings …

and

sell them more often. I may HAVE to go to work part time…. but it scares me so! He did so many things he didn’t have to do .. before he left …. he gave me his BIG monitor .. his new mouse, and ALL his memory … so I could

have

a nice computer system to work with.  He also gave me the printer.  He took out the mattress he had been sleeping on this morning before going to work … and he put his clothes in a plastic garbage bag.    :-( It hurt me so much to see him have to give up everything!  I had a

short

talk with him before he left … and told him that I’ve tried to do

this

as nice as I can … and that he knew we had to separate, that he wanted

it

too … and there was no easy way of doing it.  I told him I was so sorry that he had no money or place to stay … but I was scared for myself too

…

what I’m going to do … where I’m getting the money to live. He acted upset .. and hurt … more upset .. annoyed .. angry .. and that made me

feel

worse. I just don’t know … I’m so confused!  I’m SO scared that he’ll be in another woman’s arms soon … he’s in the pitcrew for his newphews racing team … and at the track there are so many opportunities.  I still do love him .. and yet I know he hurt me … and I know he wasn’t good for me

in

many ways … yet I hurt him too, and I wasn’t good for him.    I hate this!!  I know .. time .. time .. time .. but what if I made

a

mistake? ?????? I’m done now …. anybody? Dee

Response:

Hi J, I know … it seems that way .. but for today … and for a bit .. it will be hard for me to believe that.    :-( I do truly believe he wanted me to have nice things … all though I AM the one who asked for his monitor, he didn’t vollunteer it .. but he DID put in all his memory for me … Sorry … I’m starting to cry again … got to go … bad day .. first day … you know. Thanks so much for being here … Hugs, Dee J Rogow <JRo…@SpammenotNewsguy.com

wrote in message

news:bg3e0302tir@enews3.newsguy.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

He’s trying to send you on a major guilt-trip. Don’t go! Dee wrote: I’m just gonna vent and spill out my feelings for a bit .. hope you don’t mind … I sit here feeling terrible … as expected I’m sure.  I know it seems that when a bad thing stops, it’s suppose to be good … but not so … at least not right away.  How could I make him leave his home?  The only place he knew?  His office sits there with his computer, his papers … books .. software .. he SO wanted to learn Dreamweaver … I sit here crying as I type … cause I’m not so sure I wasn’t the one who made this go bad. I know .. you will say I’m blaming myself … and letting him get to me … but no .. not really .. I guess I’m really trying to be honest with myself. I wasn’t the perfect wife by no means … I mean… I know the REASON I yelled at him … and bitched … was because he hurt me .. and wasn’t there for me.. but he wasn’t there for me the way "I" wanted him to be … the way I needed.   Was that HIS fault?  Or was it just that he wasn’t the man I needed .. and never could be … and all my yellling and bitching … and calling him names .. and yes I admit .. I did call him so pretty bad things… did any of that help?  No!  All it did was push him further from me … and hurt him inside.  I guess I wish he were feeling these things too … it would make it easier on me .. that he’s hurting too .. that he’s sorry HE hurt ME too … He did so many things for me … while married … and before he left .. he set me up with my own business in the beginning .. not pushing me to work … and just work on my business … I did that for many years .. and did bring in some income .. but I would quit one idea and go to the next .. so my business never really took off good … nor did I ever make allot of money from it.  He worked hard .. all the time … and he never gave me a problem about working.  ok .. a few times he would say maybe I should go to work … and to tell the truth, back before I got sick … I just hated working!  I would find excuses … and he would accept them. Now .. I truly am sick … and it’s hard to imagine myself working full time … I’m almost positive I can’t.  I’m not sure about part time … I do know that I’m painting … and selling the paintings a little on ebay.  I just made a few cloth dolls and sold a them on ebay also.  I have an idea I’m working on with a few other women … with dolls .. and it might go over well and bring in some income … and I’ve thought of having home shows with dolls that other folks make … and I resell .. but I’m not sure I have the energy for that either.  I’d really love to work on my paintings … and sell them more often. I may HAVE to go to work part time…. but it scares me so! He did so many things he didn’t have to do .. before he left …. he gave me his BIG monitor .. his new mouse, and ALL his memory … so I could have a nice computer system to work with.  He also gave me the printer.  He took out the mattress he had been sleeping on this morning before going to work … and he put his clothes in a plastic garbage bag.    :-( It hurt me so much to see him have to give up everything!  I had a short talk with him before he left … and told him that I’ve tried to do this as nice as I can … and that he knew we had to separate, that he wanted it too … and there was no easy way of doing it.  I told him I was so sorry that he had no money or place to stay … but I was scared for myself too … what I’m going to do … where I’m getting the money to live. He acted upset .. and hurt … more upset .. annoyed .. angry .. and that made me feel worse. I just don’t know … I’m so confused!  I’m SO scared that he’ll be in another woman’s arms soon … he’s in the pitcrew for his newphews racing team … and at the track there are so many opportunities.  I still do love him .. and yet I know he hurt me … and I know he wasn’t good for me in many ways … yet I hurt him too, and I wasn’t    good for him. I hate this!!  I know .. time .. time .. time .. but what if I made a mistake? ?????? I’m done now …. anybody? Dee

Response:

Norma, I am SO bad about thinking about ME …. I have to say this: I have been told by a therapist at one time … that I have a small amount of borderline personality disorder.  I know I do .. cause I’ve read about it … and I fit it perfectly!  All except the wanting to commit suicide and cutting myself .. ick .. would never do that! BUT … part of the condition is being completely absorbed into the man in your life … and not being able to let go of what ‘he’s’ thinking .. feeling .. doing.  And jealousy and trust is a HUGE thing for me!  I mean I get SO hysterical .. that I’ll do some pretty stupid things out of jealousy!!  I dwell and dwell on what he’s doing when I’m not there … how he’ll be with women .. what they’ll do .. say … where they’ll go… how much happier he’ll be without me .. how much nicer they’ll treat him .. that somebody else .. younger, and healthier will treat him better .. and make him happy … and that will just KILL me … it will do me in, I swear! That’s how I am!!  I hate it … but it’s a reality! I’m seriously thinking of asking my doctor for an antidepressant during this time.. cause I KNOW if left on my own …. I’ll go crazy and do some damage to my system by the worrying and obsessions. He did prescribe Zoloft for me once .. but I never took them .. threw them away … maybe he’ll just call them in for me.  I’m very scared to take them … cause I’m on meds for hypertension and rapid heartbeat, and I think they raise the blood pressure … will have to talk to him about it.  But I do know I may need something … for the obsessivness .. or I’ll just lose it! Thanks so much for being here … As for ‘guilt’ .. as soon as I read what you said … and J too … I got defensive .. I mean .. inside my head and heart .. I said … NO .. he wasn’t making me feel guilty .. he  did it to be nice … he wanted me to have a nice computer when he was gone … and I still think that. Yes, I might consider talking on the phone .. maybe not just yet … today’s a hard day … crying lots and bleeding hard… some combination .. huh? Thanks so much … truly I mean that! Hugs, Dee PS… if I sound ungrateful or bitchy .. I truly don’t mean to come across that way … I’m just really hurting today! Norma <lup…@hotmail.com

wrote in message

news:viag6pkd7vrc76@corp.supernews.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Dee Dee Dee: Bless your heart. I know the pain seems impossible now, but you will be okay. Yes, time is the answer. It will get better day to day, week to

week.

Honey, it takes two to make a marriage and it takes two to break a

marriage.

Stop placing the all blame on yourself. According to his background you should be appalled. The only reason he "left" you the computer, etc. is called "GUILT".  He knows he’s done

wrong, > but won’t admit it.  However, that is no reason, just an excuse. > Get your feelings straightened out and get on with it.  Yes, dear it does > take time and we’ve all been there, so know, that it will get better. > If you want to send me a private email with your phone number, I will be > glad to call you and talk. > You have to concentrate on feeling better. That is the #1 priority. > Thinking of you, > Norma > "Dee" <particl…@earthlink.net

wrote in message

> news:7F9Va.122682$Io.10500495@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net… > > I’m just gonna vent and spill out my feelings for a bit .. hope you don’t

mind … I sit here feeling terrible … as expected I’m sure.  I know it seems that when a bad thing stops, it’s suppose to be good … but not so … at least not right away.  How could I make him leave his home?  The only place he knew?  His office sits there with his computer, his papers … books .. software .. he SO wanted to learn Dreamweaver … I sit here crying as I type … cause I’m not so sure I wasn’t the one who made this go bad. I know .. you will say I’m blaming myself … and letting him get to me … but no .. not really .. I guess I’m really trying to be  honest with myself. I wasn’t the perfect wife by no means … I mean… I know the REASON I yelled at him … and bitched … was because he hurt me .. and wasn’t there for me.. but he wasn’t there for me the way "I" wanted him to be … the way I needed.   Was that HIS fault?  Or was it just that he wasn’t the man I needed .. and never could be … and all my yellling and bitching …

and

calling him names .. and yes I admit .. I did call him so pretty bad things… did any of that help?  No!  All it did was push him further

from

me … and hurt him inside.  I guess I wish he were feeling these things too … it would make it easier on me .. that he’s hurting too .. that he’s sorry HE hurt ME too … He did so many things for me … while married … and before he left .. he set me up with my own business in the beginning .. not pushing me to

work

… and just work on my business … I did that for many years .. and

did

bring in some income .. but I would quit one idea and go to the next ..

so

my business never really took off good … nor did I ever make allot of money from it.  He worked hard .. all the time … and he never gave me

a

problem about working.  ok .. a few times he would say maybe I should go to work … and to tell the truth, back before I got sick … I just hated working!  I would find excuses … and he would accept them. Now .. I truly am sick … and it’s hard to imagine myself working full time … I’m almost positive I can’t.  I’m not sure about part time … I do know that I’m painting … and selling the paintings a little on ebay.  I

just

made a few cloth dolls and sold a them on ebay also.  I have an idea I’m working on with a few other women … with dolls .. and it might go over well and bring in some income … and I’ve thought of having home shows with dolls that other folks make … and I resell .. but I’m not sure I have the energy for that either.  I’d really love to work on my paintings … and sell them more often. I may HAVE to go to work part time…. but it scares me so! He did so many things he didn’t have to do .. before he left …. he

gave

me his BIG monitor .. his new mouse, and ALL his memory … so I could have

a

nice computer system to work with.  He also gave me the printer.  He

took

out the mattress he had been sleeping on this morning before going to

work

… and he put his clothes in a plastic garbage bag.    :-( It hurt me so much to see him have to give up everything!  I had a short talk with him before he left … and told him that I’ve tried to do this as nice as I can … and that he knew we had to separate, that he wanted it too … and there was no easy way of doing it.  I told him I was so sorry

that

he had no money or place to stay … but I was scared for myself too … what I’m going to do … where I’m getting the money to live. He acted upset .. and hurt … more upset .. annoyed .. angry .. and that made me feel worse. I just don’t know … I’m so confused!  I’m SO scared that he’ll be in another woman’s arms soon … he’s in the pitcrew for his newphews

racing

team … and at the track there are so many opportunities.  I still do love him .. and yet I know he hurt me … and I know he wasn’t good for me in many ways … yet I hurt him too, and I wasn’t good for him.    I hate this!!  I know .. time .. time .. time .. but what if I made a mistake? ?????? I’m done now …. anybody? Dee

Response:

Dee Dee Dee: Bless your heart. I know the pain seems impossible now, but you will be okay. Yes, time is the answer. It will get better day to day, week to week. Honey, it takes two to make a marriage and it takes two to break a marriage. Stop placing the all blame on yourself. According to his background you should be appalled. The only reason he "left" you the computer, etc. is called "GUILT".  He knows he’s done wrong, but won’t admit it.  However, that is no reason, just an excuse. Get your feelings straightened out and get on with it.  Yes, dear it does take time and we’ve all been there, so know, that it will get better. If you want to send me a private email with your phone number, I will be glad to call you and talk. You have to concentrate on feeling better. That is the #1 priority. Thinking of you, Norma "Dee" <particl…@earthlink.net

wrote in message

news:7F9Va.122682$Io.10500495@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

I’m just gonna vent and spill out my feelings for a bit .. hope you don’t mind … I sit here feeling terrible … as expected I’m sure.  I know it seems

that

when a bad thing stops, it’s suppose to be good … but not so … at

least

not right away.  How could I make him leave his home?  The only place he knew?  His office sits there with his computer, his papers … books .. software .. he SO wanted to learn Dreamweaver … I sit here crying as I type … cause I’m not so sure I wasn’t the one who made this go bad. I know .. you will say I’m blaming myself … and letting him get to me

…

but no .. not really .. I guess I’m really trying to be  honest with

myself.

I wasn’t the perfect wife by no means … I mean… I know the REASON I yelled at him … and bitched … was because he hurt me .. and wasn’t

there

for me.. but he wasn’t there for me the way "I" wanted him to be … the

way

I needed.   Was that HIS fault?  Or was it just that he wasn’t the man I needed .. and never could be … and all my yellling and bitching … and calling him names .. and yes I admit .. I did call him so pretty bad things… did any of that help?  No!  All it did was push him further from me … and hurt him inside.  I guess I wish he were feeling these things

too

… it would make it easier on me .. that he’s hurting too .. that he’s sorry HE hurt ME too … He did so many things for me … while married … and before he left ..

he

set me up with my own business in the beginning .. not pushing me to work … and just work on my business … I did that for many years .. and did bring in some income .. but I would quit one idea and go to the next .. so my business never really took off good … nor did I ever make allot of money from it.  He worked hard .. all the time … and he never gave me a problem about working.  ok .. a few times he would say maybe I should go

to

work … and to tell the truth, back before I got sick … I just hated working!  I would find excuses … and he would accept them. Now .. I truly am sick … and it’s hard to imagine myself working full

time

… I’m almost positive I can’t.  I’m not sure about part time … I do

know

that I’m painting … and selling the paintings a little on ebay.  I just made a few cloth dolls and sold a them on ebay also.  I have an idea I’m working on with a few other women … with dolls .. and it might go over well and bring in some income … and I’ve thought of having home shows

with

dolls that other folks make … and I resell .. but I’m not sure I have

the

energy for that either.  I’d really love to work on my paintings … and sell them more often. I may HAVE to go to work part time…. but it scares me so! He did so many things he didn’t have to do .. before he left …. he gave

me

his BIG monitor .. his new mouse, and ALL his memory … so I could have a nice computer system to work with.  He also gave me the printer.  He took out the mattress he had been sleeping on this morning before going to work … and he put his clothes in a plastic garbage bag.    :-( It hurt me so much to see him have to give up everything!  I had a short talk with him before he left … and told him that I’ve tried to do this

as

nice as I can … and that he knew we had to separate, that he wanted it

too

… and there was no easy way of doing it.  I told him I was so sorry that he had no money or place to stay … but I was scared for myself too … what I’m going to do … where I’m getting the money to live. He acted

upset

.. and hurt … more upset .. annoyed .. angry .. and that made me feel worse. I just don’t know … I’m so confused!  I’m SO scared that he’ll be in another woman’s arms soon … he’s in the pitcrew for his newphews racing team … and at the track there are so many opportunities.  I still do

love

him .. and yet I know he hurt me … and I know he wasn’t good for me in many ways … yet I hurt him too, and I wasn’t good for him.    I hate this!!  I know .. time .. time .. time .. but what if I made a mistake? ?????? I’m done now …. anybody? Dee

Response:

He’s trying to send you on a major guilt-trip. Don’t go! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Dee wrote:

I’m just gonna vent and spill out my feelings for a bit .. hope you don’t mind … I sit here feeling terrible … as expected I’m sure.  I know it seems that when a bad thing stops, it’s suppose to be good … but not so … at least not right away.  How could I make him leave his home?  The only place he knew?  His office sits there with his computer, his papers … books .. software .. he SO wanted to learn Dreamweaver … I sit here crying as I type … cause I’m not so sure I wasn’t the one who made this go bad. I know .. you will say I’m blaming myself … and letting him get to me … but no .. not really .. I guess I’m really trying to be honest with myself. I wasn’t the perfect wife by no means … I mean… I know the REASON I yelled at him … and bitched … was because he hurt me .. and wasn’t there for me.. but he wasn’t there for me the way "I" wanted him to be … the way I needed.   Was that HIS fault?  Or was it just that he wasn’t the man I needed .. and never could be … and all my yellling and bitching … and calling him names .. and yes I admit .. I did call him so pretty bad things… did any of that help?  No!  All it did was push him further from me … and hurt him inside.  I guess I wish he were feeling these things too … it would make it easier on me .. that he’s hurting too .. that he’s sorry HE hurt ME too … He did so many things for me … while married … and before he left .. he set me up with my own business in the beginning .. not pushing me to work … and just work on my business … I did that for many years .. and did bring in some income .. but I would quit one idea and go to the next .. so my business never really took off good … nor did I ever make allot of money from it.  He worked hard .. all the time … and he never gave me a problem about working.  ok .. a few times he would say maybe I should go to work … and to tell the truth, back before I got sick … I just hated working!  I would find excuses … and he would accept them. Now .. I truly am sick … and it’s hard to imagine myself working full time … I’m almost positive I can’t.  I’m not sure about part time … I do know that I’m painting … and selling the paintings a little on ebay.  I just made a few cloth dolls and sold a them on ebay also.  I have an idea I’m working on with a few other women … with dolls .. and it might go over well and bring in some income … and I’ve thought of having home shows with dolls that other folks make … and I resell .. but I’m not sure I have the energy for that either.  I’d really love to work on my paintings … and sell them more often. I may HAVE to go to work part time…. but it scares me so! He did so many things he didn’t have to do .. before he left …. he gave me his BIG monitor .. his new mouse, and ALL his memory … so I could have a nice computer system to work with.  He also gave me the printer.  He took out the mattress he had been sleeping on this morning before going to work … and he put his clothes in a plastic garbage bag.    :-( It hurt me so much to see him have to give up everything!  I had a short talk with him before he left … and told him that I’ve tried to do this as nice as I can … and that he knew we had to separate, that he wanted it too … and there was no easy way of doing it.  I told him I was so sorry that he had no money or place to stay … but I was scared for myself too … what I’m going to do … where I’m getting the money to live. He acted upset .. and hurt … more upset .. annoyed .. angry .. and that made me feel worse. I just don’t know … I’m so confused!  I’m SO scared that he’ll be in another woman’s arms soon … he’s in the pitcrew for his newphews racing team … and at the track there are so many opportunities.  I still do love him .. and yet I know he hurt me … and I know he wasn’t good for me in many ways … yet I hurt him too, and I wasn’t    good for him. I hate this!!  I know .. time .. time .. time .. but what if I made a mistake? ?????? I’m done now …. anybody? Dee

Response:

I just felt I needed to tell what he did to hurt me in our marriage… cause as I re-read my first post, I see me blaming myself for everything … well .. for allot. I think the things that hurt the most were:  him being immature and not standing up for me with his family, not taking MY side .. but theirs.  Not making his children respect me when they first met me.  His brother can do NO wrong … and he’s hurt me terribly standing up for his brother over me and my feelings.  When his nephews would talk vulgar and degrading about women (which is MOST of the time), and I told him it bothered me to be around them … he got mad at ME … telling me that’s how they are … and either I don’t go to the house … or I accept it… instead of him saying something .. standing up for me. He had a past with very young girls .. as you recall …. and I always felt (all though he never said this) that I was in competition with them … and with the last live-in 16 year old he was with.  She of course, was 16 .. and healthy … lively .. and loved the races!  Her father and brother raced too … so she was raised in it, and knew all about it .. which I never did.  I enjoyed going with him on occasion, but when I did … it would be the family that talks vulgar … and they pretty much ignored me most of the night … but Jim would get upset at me for not being more friendly … but I was .. it’s just that they’re so cold … and I feel very uncomfortable around them.  But he always wanted to go anyway … without me … and he did several times … and I sat home sad and lonely. He was very unaffectionate … and hardly ever hugged me, or kissed me on his own.  We could go for days without touching … if I didn’t approach him.  It was very hard on me.. as I’m a very lovable person.  Even when I DID approach him, many times he got annoyed … or would ‘grab’ me … and want sex.  Now mind you .. I love sex … probably more than he does … so that wasn’t a problem him wanting sex .. but it WAS a problem that sex was always ‘FU—-G’ if you can read between the letters.  And it was always quick and dirty .. him using very vulgar words and expressions.  I didn’t mind that once in a while … but not all the time!  When I would ask him to make love to me … he would get annoyed and not know what to do! And when I tried talking to him about these things .. he would get mad or annoyed and say that if I didn’t find fault (that’s his way of saying that I want to talk about things that were bothering me) … then he could be the husband I needed.  I doubt it .. cause when we were in marriage counseling … I followed the counselor and went 2 straight weeks without asking him for anything … or picking on him … or finding any fault .. or asking him to talk .. nothing.  I was as sweet and loving and helpful to him as I could be.  What happened?  He got me flowers once .. and that’s it!  He dropped the bomb on me … and never did much of anything else .. that the counselor told him to work on.  The counselor told me that he just didn’t want to work on his life .. or our marriage.  ’sigh’ His whole family is cold … and hard to get close to … and critical .. so I guess he’s part of the family! I really didn’t mean to just come in here and bash him … I guess I’m sort of journaling publicly .. to see how he’s hurt me … to remember … but .. ’sigh’ … when I feel sad about things .. it still doesn’t help.    :-( Hold my hand guys … and lend a shoulder … this is the hard time’s a comin! Hugs, Dee

Response:

I’m just gonna vent and spill out my feelings for a bit .. hope you don’t mind … I sit here feeling terrible … as expected I’m sure.  I know it seems that when a bad thing stops, it’s suppose to be good … but not so … at least not right away.  How could I make him leave his home?  The only place he knew?  His office sits there with his computer, his papers … books .. software .. he SO wanted to learn Dreamweaver … I sit here crying as I type … cause I’m not so sure I wasn’t the one who made this go bad. I know .. you will say I’m blaming myself … and letting him get to me … but no .. not really .. I guess I’m really trying to be  honest with myself. I wasn’t the perfect wife by no means … I mean… I know the REASON I yelled at him … and bitched … was because he hurt me .. and wasn’t there for me.. but he wasn’t there for me the way "I" wanted him to be … the way I needed.   Was that HIS fault?  Or was it just that he wasn’t the man I needed .. and never could be … and all my yellling and bitching … and calling him names .. and yes I admit .. I did call him so pretty bad things… did any of that help?  No!  All it did was push him further from me … and hurt him inside.  I guess I wish he were feeling these things too … it would make it easier on me .. that he’s hurting too .. that he’s sorry HE hurt ME too … He did so many things for me … while married … and before he left .. he set me up with my own business in the beginning .. not pushing me to work … and just work on my business … I did that for many years .. and did bring in some income .. but I would quit one idea and go to the next .. so my business never really took off good … nor did I ever make allot of money from it.  He worked hard .. all the time … and he never gave me a problem about working.  ok .. a few times he would say maybe I should go to work … and to tell the truth, back before I got sick … I just hated working!  I would find excuses … and he would accept them. Now .. I truly am sick … and it’s hard to imagine myself working full time … I’m almost positive I can’t.  I’m not sure about part time … I do know that I’m painting … and selling the paintings a little on ebay.  I just made a few cloth dolls and sold a them on ebay also.  I have an idea I’m working on with a few other women … with dolls .. and it might go over well and bring in some income … and I’ve thought of having home shows with dolls that other folks make … and I resell .. but I’m not sure I have the energy for that either.  I’d really love to work on my paintings … and sell them more often. I may HAVE to go to work part time…. but it scares me so! He did so many things he didn’t have to do .. before he left …. he gave me his BIG monitor .. his new mouse, and ALL his memory … so I could have a nice computer system to work with.  He also gave me the printer.  He took out the mattress he had been sleeping on this morning before going to work … and he put his clothes in a plastic garbage bag.    :-( It hurt me so much to see him have to give up everything!  I had a short talk with him before he left … and told him that I’ve tried to do this as nice as I can … and that he knew we had to separate, that he wanted it too … and there was no easy way of doing it.  I told him I was so sorry that he had no money or place to stay … but I was scared for myself too … what I’m going to do … where I’m getting the money to live. He acted upset .. and hurt … more upset .. annoyed .. angry .. and that made me feel worse. I just don’t know … I’m so confused!  I’m SO scared that he’ll be in another woman’s arms soon … he’s in the pitcrew for his newphews racing team … and at the track there are so many opportunities.  I still do love him .. and yet I know he hurt me … and I know he wasn’t good for me in many ways … yet I hurt him too, and I wasn’t good for him.    I hate this!!  I know .. time .. time .. time .. but what if I made a mistake? ?????? I’m done now …. anybody? Dee

Response:

Question:

Has anyone heard of Zoloft withdrawal lasting longer than a couple of weeks? I was taking 200 to 250 mg Zoloft daily (increased during PMS) and then switched to Celexa. I was frustrated with neither of them helping my depression, so I unwisely abruptly discontinued the medication. My withdrawal symptoms ranged from moderate to severe…initially, I experienced extreme agitation, anxiety, crying, uncharacteristic rage, and formication (sensation that bugs were crawling on me). With the help of my doctor, I restarted a low dose of Celexa (I had been on 20 mg prior to this) and tapered off–but still quicker than I should have because I’m stubborn. The main problems that persisted for a couple of weeks were numbness and tingling in my arms and legs, and then spontaneous pain or muscle spasms in my legs. (Pretty darn painful). That and gastro-intestinal distress. My doctor felt that most of this was actually withdrawal from the Zoloft, not Celexa. She felt that the Celexa had prevented me from going into Zoloft withdrawal, but when I discontinued Celexa, the Zoloft withdrawal kicked in. From what I’ve read about other people’s experiences with Zoloft withdrawal, my symptoms do appear to match theirs. I had been taking Zoloft (at different doses) for about 4 years. I tried other medications during that time, but I was unable to tolerate most of them. I am very sensitive to medications and tend to have side effects with just about everything I take, usually to the point where I don’t want to take anything. Back to the symptoms–after 2-1/2 weeks, these symptoms diminished. 3-1/2 weeks after the initial discontinuation, however, I had a flare-up of gastro-intenstinal distress that lasted a day or two. Then, 4-1/2 weeks after the initial discontinuation (maybe 2 weeks since stopping the mild tapering-off) I experienced the leg pain, numbness, tingling along with severe stomach cramps and such. I did not expect to still be experiencing withdrawal symptoms, so I’m confused. Am I imagining things? Is this something else? Thank you for any help you can provide.

Response:

Question:

Justin,     Depression is a bummer, in and of itself. Have you asked your doc to check other things out? I have a thyroid problem and one of the things that surfaces with it is depression and a tendency to sleep 14 hours a day ( really ), skin problems, other health problems can accompany it. Most docs blow us off because, as men, we are in the minority with this, and so they seldom screen for it. Having checked a few things back for about 20 years or more, it is highly probable I’ve had for some time. A couple of simple blood tests and you’ll have a good idea if it is or isn’t, but it is not normal to be depressed and it would be one less worry. It could be something so simple but life changing as this that it would be prudent to discuss it with your doc.     A good place to ask for more question on this might be Alt.Support.Thyroid , as they are good, gentle folks with a lot of answers pertaining to what you’ve described, and it is quite possible to have a life changing event cause a temporary health issue. If that isn’t the case, feel free to vent, rant, or rave here. We’ll listen.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This post is not divorce, but I do need help. I have posted at other ng some have been helpful others have not. I’m looking for advice, I will be preprared to take it. Which can be hard for me. I have posted here before. My name is Justin, I’m 22/m I feel like my life is a real mess, I don’t know how to get out of this rut. Most days I rather be dead then go on. I don’t feel like I will neber ever, ever get better It starts here. Im upset because I feel like I  disappointed my parents at many levels. After graduating high school in 98′ I went off to the University Of Toledo. I stayed 5 days. I left because I was paranoid about some stuff from high school, which I rather not mention. Upon coming home I worked several jobs. I didn’t stay at many because I was too paranoid. I eventually became house bound. The only time I left was to see my doctor. Its almost like my mom hated my mom for not understanding my problems. I wasn’t a perfect kid, but most of my problems stemed from this issue. I finally moved in with my father. I did get better. I started doing the phones at his office and became confident. But living with my father was hell. He made me ill and I became aneroxic at some level. I’m about 5′11" I dropped down to 135Ib. Eventually I moved out. I couldn’t  stand the asshole. I did it overnight without hi knowing (If you ask my father he will tell you what a rotten kid I was) I then moved into an apartment. In a good neighborhood. But even in good areas there are some real nuts. The lady who lived across from me was a cocaine addict. She even proposition me for sex in the middle of the night. I didn’t touch the skank. Eventually, I moved out of that apartment and one across the street. I then met up with this dude, while working at the movie theatre. That was a bad sitution. He never took showers. He left meatloaf out for weeks, he had cereal all over the floor in his room. The list goes on and on. The apartment managers let me break my lease. I now live by myself(boy, im glad I don’t live with anyone) Then 7 months ago. I was so depressed I hooked up with some guy I met on the net. I regret doing this, one because Im not gay. But I was so unhappy. I would do anything to relieve stress. Lately, I look at porn on the net because Im miserable. Then last week I got fired from my job at Nordstroms as a dishwasher.. I was only there for about 5 weeks. So it wasn’t a big deal. The reason is I don’t know how  to do washes. I also put the trash in the wrong place a few times. I know this was my fault. I got a little lazy. The last day I was there this dude got in my face and was yelling at me about how I don’t know how to do dishes. He put his finger in my face. I dont look weak now. I now weigh abou 170 5′11" medium build. Im pissed another dude got in my face. I told my grandfather what happened he said i "fucked up" and on the wrong track in life. Today, its 5:30 am. I feel like shit. I’m thinking about cutting school. I sleep like 14 hrs a day. Im so depressed, and even a little suicidal. I have bad obsessions. I’m always concerned with my looks. I always think Im ugly, but I’m not I’m actually good looking. I stand in the mirrors for awhile picking at whats wrong with my face, and how i could correct it. I’m seething about some other things. I was talking to this kid I know from one of the ng. I told him how sometimes I read posts with advice and I get upset. He told me im too emotional, and then he said im as emotional as a woman. After he said that I started insulting him like crazy. I usually feel bad when Im brutally mean to people this time, I wasn’t. I could barley sleep last  night because of this comment. I don’t feel like I will get over this comment. Boy, am I angry. Then last night I read a helpful post on here. Anyway, I took it the wrong way and got upset. I was then obsessing about it all last night and still am. The comment was just how relationships are 50/50 nothing bad. Well, I then started to worry that Im just a totaly self-absorbed dude. Which Im not, except when it comes to my problems.  I see myself being absorbed in them. After I read that post I was got all paranoid that when Im not absorbed in my own problems Im not interested in others. I dont want people to see me like this, so now im very worried. So I traced back to all the people I talk to at school and wondered if I seemed interested in them. And I did. But now I fear that I will worry if  I seem interested in people and watch everything I say, and maybe say things just so I seem interested. Maybe ask them questions that I might not normally do. I once did this before and I felt fake. I rather be mother fucking dead then to have this obsession return and thats what its fucking doing. To some this may seem like nothing to me this is a huge deal. I rather stay home then bare this worry. What’s funny is people do REALLY like me. People ask me where the parties are, boy if they only knew how horrible my life is. I once took a survery at the mall while I had some extra time. The kid doing the survey was in high school. He said I bet your a frat boy. Its funny because I see myself as an ugly, loser fuck. Will I get better? I have been going through hell for the last 5 years I see a doc, take meds, do everything. nothin works Justin

Response:

 But now I fear that I will worry if  I seem interested in people and watch everything I say, and maybe say things just so I seem interested. Maybe ask them questions that I might not normally do. I once did this before and I felt fake. I rather be mother fucking dead then to have this obsession return and thats what its fucking doing. To some this may seem like nothing to me this is a huge deal. I rather stay home then bare this worry.

Ask your doc if you can get into some sort of support group for obsessives.   I think obsessions can be an offshoot from anxiety disorders, and are not exactly the same as depression.  But ask a pro, i really don’t know.  I do know from experience that medications made obsessions worse for me.  I still deal with them but they’re more under control, and even channeled into positive things sometimes…  I wonder if your past anorexia is related to that, also?  I was told it was all related.  Congrats on getting past that part, that’s a big step that shouldn’t go unnoticed. Good luck.  

Response:

Justin, I am sorry you are feeling so depressed and going through sucha horrible time of it. But As you say this is a divorce support group and I don;t know how much good posting here will do, have you tried posting on the Alt. Support Depressed or depression NG? Have you tired talking to people, to friends to the doctor even?

Response:

This post is not divorce, but I do need help. I have posted at other ng some have been helpful others have not. I’m looking for advice, I will be preprared to take it. Which can be hard for me. I have posted here before. My name is Justin, I’m 22/m Will I get better? I have been going through hell for the last 5 years SNIP, SNIP, SNIP I see a doc, take meds, do everything. nothin works Justin

Will you get better?  Sure you will!  It’s obvious to me that you are TOO HARD ON YOURSELF.  When I was 22 years old I felt the same way…which is pitiful because very few people have found themselves at such an early age…meanwhile a lot of your friends have graduated from college and look like they had all the self-direction in the world.  Don’t believe it. You need to send a cheap little greeting card to your parents every now and then.  Falling out of contact is not very good psychology….even if you’re at a place in life when you don’t like them and think their values stink. I’m going to sing a song… listen to the words… DESYREL, LITHIUM, ZOLOFT, XANAX, LORAZAPAM, NORTRIPTOLEAN, PROZAC and PAXIL. It took over seven years of trial and error to get the right medication before life began to be bearable.   You want advice?  Contruct a diary of your moods and chart the highs and lows.  Write a lil’ story about your past history of abuse and addiction. 2. Go back to your medical doctor and tell him you want to visit a psychiatrist.  He’ll give you a medical referral 3.   A good psychiatrist will ask you 50-100 questions…in rapid fire… He’ll then construct a baseline on where you are right now verses where you ought to be.  4) You’ll have routine visits with him– adjusting medication. PS You know you’re not a loser…just take better care of yourself.

Response:

This post is not divorce, but I do need help. I have posted at other ng some have been helpful others have not. I’m looking for advice, I will be preprared to take it. Which can be hard for me. I have posted here before. My name is Justin, I’m 22/m I feel like my life is a real mess, I don’t know how to get out of this rut. Most days I rather be dead then go on. I don’t feel like I will neber ever, ever get better It starts here. Im upset because I feel like I  disappointed my parents at many levels. After graduating high school in 98′ I went off to the University Of Toledo. I stayed 5 days. I left because I was paranoid about some stuff from high school, which I rather not mention. Upon coming home I worked several jobs. I didn’t stay at many because I was too paranoid. I eventually became house bound. The only time I left was to see my doctor. Its almost like my mom hated my mom for not understanding my problems. I wasn’t a perfect kid, but most of my problems stemed from this issue. I finally moved in with my father. I did get better. I started doing the phones at his office and became confident. But living with my father was hell. He made me ill and I became aneroxic at some level. I’m about 5′11" I dropped down to 135Ib. Eventually I moved out. I couldn’t  stand the asshole. I did it overnight without hi knowing (If you ask my father he will tell you what a rotten kid I was) I then moved into an apartment. In a good neighborhood. But even in good areas there are some real nuts. The lady who lived across from me was a cocaine addict. She even proposition me for sex in the middle of the night. I didn’t touch the skank. Eventually, I moved out of that apartment and one across the street. I then met up with this dude, while working at the movie theatre. That was a bad sitution. He never took showers. He left meatloaf out for weeks, he had cereal all over the floor in his room. The list goes on and on. The apartment managers let me break my lease. I now live by myself(boy, im glad I don’t live with anyone) Then 7 months ago. I was so depressed I hooked up with some guy I met on the net. I regret doing this, one because Im not gay. But I was so unhappy. I would do anything to relieve stress. Lately, I look at porn on the net because Im miserable. Then last week I got fired from my job at Nordstroms as a dishwasher.. I was only there for about 5 weeks. So it wasn’t a big deal. The reason is I don’t know how  to do washes. I also put the trash in the wrong place a few times. I know this was my fault. I got a little lazy. The last day I was there this dude got in my face and was yelling at me about how I don’t know how to do dishes. He put his finger in my face. I dont look weak now. I now weigh abou 170 5′11" medium build. Im pissed another dude got in my face. I told my grandfather what happened he said i "fucked up" and on the wrong track in life. Today, its 5:30 am. I feel like shit. I’m thinking about cutting school. I sleep like 14 hrs a day. Im so depressed, and even a little suicidal. I have bad obsessions. I’m always concerned with my looks. I always think Im ugly, but I’m not I’m actually good looking. I stand in the mirrors for awhile picking at whats wrong with my face, and how i could correct it. I’m seething about some other things. I was talking to this kid I know from one of the ng. I told him how sometimes I read posts with advice and I get upset. He told me im too emotional, and then he said im as emotional as a woman. After he said that I started insulting him like crazy. I usually feel bad when Im brutally mean to people this time, I wasn’t. I could barley sleep last  night because of this comment. I don’t feel like I will get over this comment. Boy, am I angry. Then last night I read a helpful post on here. Anyway, I took it the wrong way and got upset. I was then obsessing about it all last night and still am. The comment was just how relationships are 50/50 nothing bad. Well, I then started to worry that Im just a totaly self-absorbed dude. Which Im not, except when it comes to my problems.  I see myself being absorbed in them. After I read that post I was got all paranoid that when Im not absorbed in my own problems Im not interested in others. I dont want people to see me like this, so now im very worried. So I traced back to all the people I talk to at school and wondered if I seemed interested in them. And I did. But now I fear that I will worry if  I seem interested in people and watch everything I say, and maybe say things just so I seem interested. Maybe ask them questions that I might not normally do. I once did this before and I felt fake. I rather be mother fucking dead then to have this obsession return and thats what its fucking doing. To some this may seem like nothing to me this is a huge deal. I rather stay home then bare this worry. What’s funny is people do REALLY like me. People ask me where the parties are, boy if they only knew how horrible my life is. I once took a survery at the mall while I had some extra time. The kid doing the survey was in high school. He said I bet your a frat boy. Its funny because I see myself as an ugly, loser fuck. Will I get better? I have been going through hell for the last 5 years I see a doc, take meds, do everything. nothin works Justin

Response:

Question:

The worst time of day for my crying and upset begin shortly after waking and continues through shaving and breakfast, and lasts until about noon, often very severe crying.  Somewhere in mid-day I usually stop crying and can function.  Occasionally the crying will spill over into the afternoon, but not normally.  This general pattern has been present for some months and with various medications. My medications at present are: Welbutrin    200 mg in morning Zyprexa      10 mg at night Nortriptyline  75 mg at night I also had 14 electro-shock treatments in June/July. My question for this post is to ask whether others have a ‘bad morning’ experience. Thank you. John

Response:

Thanks jai for your suggestions.  Yes my pdoc is well aware of the continued failure of various medications over the past several months; I have used a variety of medications both singly and in combination over the past year: prozac, zoloft, effexor, remeron, etc. none of which brought me out of the pit. I will keep on searching as where I am now is not a life I want to lead. John – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m sorry you’re having so much trouble John. I don’t know what Nortriptyline is for. My worst times for anxiety are in the mornings. I don’t want to wake up some days because that means I have a whole day to get through.This sometimes actually leads to me waking up earlier and earlier in anticipation of the fear and anxiety. It’s worse in the winter. It sounds like perhaps this med combo isn’t working for you. Have you been on it very long? There is no magic pill or med of course, but some of us do find different meds/combos to be of help. Have you told your pdoc about this? Take care. Jai — For more information about this posting service, contact: If you want an anonymous account, visit our sign-up page: http://asarian-host.org/emailform.html

Response:

says… My question for this post is to ask whether others have a ‘bad morning’ experience.

Mine’s usually late afternoon. Mornings are reserved for that wonderful "severe fatigue". So tired I can hardly focus. — Amelia

Response:

says… I will keep on searching as where I am now is not a life I want to lead. John

I’m sorry you’re having a hard time, John. But at least you’ve got lots of company in this dark hole. When just 1 of us gets a few inches up out of that hole we need to yell back down and make sure the others know that we see light. Deal? — Amelia

Response:

I’m sorry you’re having a hard time, John. But at least you’ve got lots of company in this dark hole. When just 1 of us gets a few inches up out of that hole we need to yell back down and make sure the others know that we see light. Deal?

Yes ma’am that is a deal.  Thanks for the encouragement. John [age 63]

Response:

what and when are you eating?

Usually breakfast around 9 or 10 a.m., I simply ‘can’t’ get myself up earlier — I used to but not this year.  Lunch around 1 or 2 p.m.  Dinner at about 7 p.m.  I consider the food I eat to be plain ordinary meals. if you are not eating before these times you could be experiencing low blood sugar which could cause/contribute to depression.

At one time in my life I did have a problem with ’sugar dips’ [ hypoglycemia] and the resulting feeling faint….what I have now doesn’t seem at all like the old sugar dip problem [which has been gone for several years]. since you experience these feelings even while taking meds, have you considered other factors?

Good point — my pdoc did have an MRI done of my head to rule out something physical there…she says she checked my thyroid, but I have no record of it, and plan to raise that question again next visit [which is next Tuesday]. Thanks for the input. John [age 63]

Response:

says… I’m sorry you’re having a hard time, John. But at least you’ve got lots of company in this dark hole. When just 1 of us gets a few inches up out of that hole we need to yell back down and make sure the others know that we see light. Deal? Yes ma’am that is a deal.  Thanks for the encouragement. John [age 63]

63! Look at the smarts and common sense you’ve got on me! I’m only 40! And for all you 20 yr olds with your mouths hanging open at the thought of "only 40" all I got to say is, "Yea, just you wait…." — Amelia

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<< My question for this post is to ask whether others have a ‘bad morning’ experience. My worst anxiety also is in the morning. THis has been happeing for the last seven months of this depression/anxiety illness. I am not currently taking anti’s as I have tried them and they only made me worse. The anxiety and panic attacks are getting better and some of the detachment syptoms, however the depression is still very bad. I have been praying and trusting God for the rest of the healing with proper nutrition, excercise and rest. Yvonne

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Question:

My doc wants me to take Zoloft and gave me a 3 week sample to start. (I haven’t tried them yet). I asked my pharmacist how much it would cost and he said 30 days of 50s would be well over $60.00. I don’t think so, I am on Medicare (a whole $578/mo) and pay for all my drugs.  My husband works but I really want to be able to cover anything I need just in case he ever looses his job or something. I cannot take Elavil, I tried it once (psych dosage) and became a raving bitch and couldn’t make a rational judgement.  My husband asked me after a week to quit taking the stuff, which I was glad to do as the side effects were awful.  The depression I was going through at the time was nothing compared to how horrible I felt on the stuff. So, my PC’s assistant gave me the Zoloft to try.  Is there anything similar that is cheaper? If I asked this before, please forgive me…. my Fibro is making me so forgetful lately that I’m not sure if I wanted to ask this or if I have already. Robin

Response:

My doc wants me to take Zoloft and gave me a 3 week sample to start. (I haven’t tried them yet). I asked my pharmacist how much it would cost and he said 30 days of 50s would be well over $60.00. HI,the older classes off anti depressants..I.E. amatriptline,nortriptoline are available ,via generic….P.S.try calling some discount drug stores don’t expect a big difference in price ,but it all adds up….    All so do you have any supplemental insurance,they don’t cost that much.If money is a real issue you can always join an HMO…….from Bob F.C. ps keep getting those free samples.it can take up to 30days for these drugs to kick in…

Response:

I am one of many who do not have medical insurance to cover the costs of my treatment (herniated c6-c7 disk and rotator cuff injuries).  A recent doctor switch finds me prescribed TRAZODONE (look it up on medicine.net) as an anti-depressant for chronic pain.  I take the 50mg tablets, and the prescription was $10.99 at my nearest drug store (#30).

You’ll have to remember that drugstores vary widely in their prices for even the same prescription — don’t be afraid to shop around. And for my own question — what exactly are anti-depressants supposed to do for pain treatment?  My doctor wasn’t awfully clear on this, but I’m willing to try almost anything at this point.  It’s only been a few days, and I know that it can take several weeks for such medications to begin their work. j.

Response:

Beware of online drug stores….they are not always what they seem. Also, as for the anti-depressants. They are a God send for a lot of Chronic Pain sufferers!  Pain is a cycle…more pain, more depression, more depression, more pain, round and round you can go.  If the doctor has suggested a anti-depressant I would give it a try!  There are several different kinds and if one doesn’t seem to help, try another. You will find one that works!  But…they do have side effects..so read the print out carefully.  Dry mouth is a big time one.  Almost every one has that side effects. But the benefits out-weight the side effects. Dealing with Chronic pain is terrible. There is not a drug made that will take all the pain away!  That is a point we all must learn to accept.  But the proper pain meds and a good anti-depressant will help.  We are all grieving…we grieve for the lost of our lives. The way we thought our lives would be if it wasn’t for the pain and disability. So, IMHO try it and give it at least six weeks!!  That is important…It is a slow acting thing…one day you just wake up and although you may need your pain meds., you feel like the day is brighter…the fog starts to lift and the world gets lighter to carry!  That is worth the cost…BTW if you do not have insurance or if you are on Medicare and have no coverage, there are some drug companies that will provide them, free…talk to your doctors.  Hope you start feeling better soon!  <VBH  Joani – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am one of many who do not have medical insurance to cover the costs of my treatment (herniated c6-c7 disk and rotator cuff injuries).  A recent doctor switch finds me prescribed TRAZODONE (look it up on medicine.net) as an anti-depressant for chronic pain.  I take the 50mg tablets, and the prescription was $10.99 at my nearest drug store (#30). You’ll have to remember that drugstores vary widely in their prices for even the same prescription — don’t be afraid to shop around. And for my own question — what exactly are anti-depressants supposed to do for pain treatment?  My doctor wasn’t awfully clear on this, but I’m willing to try almost anything at this point.  It’s only been a few days, and I know that it can take several weeks for such medications to begin their work. j.

Response:

Jennifer, The use of depressants for chronic and cancer pain is not solely for the purpose of treating depression. The emotional response to chronic pain poorly managed is depression. While the antidepressants are useful for this problem, their primary function is to treat the pain associated with nerve dysfunction (neuropathic pain resulting from trauma, diabetes, chronic inflammation associated with degenerative disc disease, prolapsed disc with pressure on nerve roots, etc.). Increasing the level of serotonin in the brain not only improves mood, but may potentiate the effects of the bodies own pain relievers and may also have a direct pain relieving effect. Common Antidepressants include: Amitryptiline (Elavil), Amoxapine (Ascendin), Desipramine (Norpramin), Imipramine (Tofranil), Trazadone (Deseryl), Bupropion (Wellbutrin), Fluoxetine (Prozac), Nefazodone (Serzone), Paroxetine (Paxil), Sertraline (Zoloft) and Venlafaxine (Effexor), Luvox, Remeron. Jack

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am one of many who do not have medical insurance to cover the costs of my treatment (herniated c6-c7 disk and rotator cuff injuries).  A recent doctor switch finds me prescribed TRAZODONE (look it up on medicine.net) as an anti-depressant for chronic pain.  I take the 50mg tablets, and the prescription was $10.99 at my nearest drug store (#30). You’ll have to remember that drugstores vary widely in their prices for even the same prescription — don’t be afraid to shop around. And for my own question — what exactly are anti-depressants supposed to do for pain treatment?  My doctor wasn’t awfully clear on this, but I’m willing to try almost anything at this point.  It’s only been a few days, and I know that it can take several weeks for such medications to begin their work. j.

Response:

Beware of online drug stores….they are not always what they seem.

     Oh, I’m afraid that I put in the wrong ‘net reference.  It should have been medicinenet.com, which is an informational medical site.  It has a good listing of prescription drugs, and I use it to check out the things I have been prescribed.  It’s rather a good site – for example, it mentioned one potential (and I think serious!) side effect of TRAZODONE that my pharmacist did not — sexual dysfunctions. My drugstore is only a block away — I’d never order medications through the Internet!      Thank you for the kind words of encouragement.  I’ve seen the common thread that when people see you on your good days, they naturally assume that every day is a good day — I share that frustration, and many others stated.  It’s reassuring to find that my experiences are not isolated. jenn

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Question:

Hi Sherri.  I was here about two years ago and now I’m back.  But I don’t feel depressed.  Right now, I should add.  I take prozac and I am also 28. Depression is pretty much a biweekly battle for me (meaning, every two weeks, it tries to take me down). – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was here about a year ago, looking for some support for this horrible feeling. Now I’m back. I don’t think this will ever go away. Sometimes giving in sounds much better.  From some of your post you know what i mean. I was really gone last year at this time, but I’m feeling better now. Who knows about tomorrow. Well anyway I really would like to get to know some of you. But I really don’t know how to start. I was wondering how many woman verses men there are that  suffer  from depression. And also the age. I’m wondering if you fell the same as I do. Are most of you taking medication? If so what do you take, and are you getting better? I’ve probably taken about 15 different kinds. I feel like I’m riding a roller coaster ride that makes me sick. UP Down UP DOWN   Hopefully you can answer some of my questions. Anxiously awaiting you reply.                 Sherri

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Note: the following sweeping generalizations are based on my opinion and experience, not on anything scientifically reliable, like a Cosmo quiz or Glamour poll Realize that Men Don’t Cry

Question:

Someone explained to me that the drug has a short half life and needs to be perked up after 12 hours to remain constant

Deb – My shakiness and headaches don’t seem to coincide with my dosing.  As a matter of fact my symptoms don’t seem to coincide with anything, which makes this whole situation much more frustrating. I take my dose at 10:00 p.m. every night.  I have absolutely no trouble falling asleep – it’s staying asleep.  When I wake up at 5:00 a.m. (if I am lucky enuf to have slept the whole night through – rare) I start to shake shortly after I wake up, not instantly upon waking.  This is only 7 hours after I have taken my dose.  Later in the morning I actually feel better. Karen

Response:

I start to shake shortly after I wake up, not instantly upon waking.  This is only 7 hours after I have taken my dose.  Later in the morning I actually feel better.

Dear Karen, Sorry to hear you still don`t feel well!! You say when you wake up you feel shaky, but later in the morning you feel better. Are you feeling better after you have eaten something?? When is the last time you eat or drink something the night before? This may be a long shot, but maybe you are going to long without eating something. Sometimes I will eat dinner at 5pm, and then not eat anything else for the rest of the evening, then the next day when I  wake up I feel a little shaky. Sometimes just having a glass of oj and a slice of cheese, I feel better. You could try at 10pm having a glass of milk and some graham crackers, maybe you might see a difference or maybe you won`t, can`t hurt. Take Care!! Jackie Have you ever noticed? Anybody going slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac.–George Carlin

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Karen, Do you think you could ask your doc about twice daily dosing? I felt MUCH better when I went to this. Someone explained to me that the drug has a short half life and needs to be perked up after 12 hours to remain constant in your blood stream. A few weeks ago, I forgot my evening dose and woke up in a shaky panic – called shrink and she said once I am up to this level (300mg daily split twice) that missing a dose can easily bring on anxiety and that when I DO get off, it needs to be done gradually just like I built up. Just a thought, but it MAY be what is causing you to feel so bad? Your evening dose would be wearing off about midmorning – is this when you feel worse? I also sleep much better if I take my dose at dinner rather than before bed. Take care, Karen

Very interesting.  My doc says the missed dose theory is way overrated.  He said you recover typically in a day and it’s nothing to be concerned about. I have also done very well with twice daily.

Response:

Very interesting.  My doc says the missed dose theory is way overrated.  He said you recover typically in a day and it’s nothing to be concerned about. I have also done very well with twice daily.

I only had the one morning anxiety return on the morning after my missed dose and it was fine by afternoon. I really do not know if it was a breakthough episode or really related to the missed dose, but it seemed to be. Anyway, I am MUCH better about remembering my meds now

Response:

You say when you wake up you feel shaky, but later in the morning you feel better. Are you feeling better after you have eaten something??

I start to feel better after I get up out of bed and get rolling.  I thought maybe it was nutritional too, but food does not seem to matter.  I get shaky when I feel anxious (of course) but then I also get anxious because I get the shakes. Karen

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve been on Serzone since August 13th.  I started at 50 mg and progessed to 100 mg 1x at night.  Now I’ve been bumped to 150 mg and then will go to 200 mg 1x at night. I started to really feel better then had a set back.  I am back to the low level constant shakiness and I have headaches that will not go away.  The headaches start in the back of my neck and end up behind my eye.  I also have some dizziness when I up my dose.  I am really sick of these headaches. Neither Tylenol, Tylenol Sinus or Aleve take it away.  Yesterday I tried a little caffiene and that seemed to help. No trails or nausea or skin crawl, though. I am really sick of feeling this overall weak shakiness, exactly the feeling you have if you have just gotten off the treadmill or stairmaster. I am patiently waiting for my stronger dose of Serzone to kick in.  At least my PA’s have really subsided. In the meantime, I sure could use a neck rub! Karen

I’ll offer some views from someone who has taken Serzone for 1.5 years. (Remember, meds are different with each person) Serzone is an interesting beast.  It was originally thought of as an anti-depressant and then moved towards the anxiety/PD arena.  Through my reading and a top notch local doctor, I found that Serzone can actually INCREASE anxiety in some folks.  I was one of those folks. Serzone did a great job of helping me sleep and has little sexual side effects.  The downside for me was increased low level anxiety. My doctor put me on a very low dose of Xanax (.25mg 3 times daily).  That helped some.  He also increased the Serzone level slowly until my depression was under control.  (He says that Serzone seems to work only at certain dosage levels for each person). I had taken Zoloft for a number of years and tried Paxil after that due to an increase in PAs.  As a final fine tuning, he put me on a low dose of Zoloft.  The combo of Serzone, Xanax, and Paxil was a homerun.  I’ve been in great shape for a long time now. I will note that I also strongly believe in therapy to assist the meds.  I have learned a ton about breathing and relaxation techniques.  I also have learned about self-hypnosis from a terrific therapist.  Finally, I understand myself better and can think through the tough situations that are side-effects of having Panic/Anxiety for a long time. Good luck all.

Response:

As stated above, I STILL have low level shakiness and slight headaches and I am on 150mg twice daily, BUT it is getting better!!!! I have been on 300mg twice daily for 4 weeks. I am thinking about moving from 150 twice daily to 200mg A.M. and 150 P.M. if the docs will do it. I felt better after my increase to 300 but it took a couple of days. I have read that is very common after an increase. I have never heard of a 1x daily dosage and I have also read and heard that a therapuetic dose is between 200-400mg daily. Stick with it as we are all feeling the same symptoms and maybe we can sort this out better with good communication between us! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve been on Serzone since August 13th.  I started at 50 mg and progessed to 100 mg 1x at night.  Now I’ve been bumped to 150 mg and then will go to 200 mg 1x at night. I started to really feel better then had a set back.  I am back to the low level constant shakiness and I have headaches that will not go away.  The headaches start in the back of my neck and end up behind my eye.  I also have some dizziness when I up my dose.  I am really sick of these headaches. Neither Tylenol, Tylenol Sinus or Aleve take it away.  Yesterday I tried a little caffiene and that seemed to help. No trails or nausea or skin crawl, though. I am really sick of feeling this overall weak shakiness, exactly the feeling you have if you have just gotten off the treadmill or stairmaster. I am patiently waiting for my stronger dose of Serzone to kick in.  At least my PA’s have really subsided. In the meantime, I sure could use a neck rub! Karen

Response:

Hi Karen, Do you think you could ask your doc about twice daily dosing? I felt MUCH better when I went to this. Someone explained to me that the drug has a short half life and needs to be perked up after 12 hours to remain constant in your blood stream. A few weeks ago, I forgot my evening dose and woke up in a shaky panic – called shrink and she said once I am up to this level (300mg daily split twice) that missing a dose can easily bring on anxiety and that when I DO get off, it needs to be done gradually just like I built up. Just a thought, but it MAY be what is causing you to feel so bad? Your evening dose would be wearing off about midmorning – is this when you feel worse? I also sleep much better if I take my dose at dinner rather than before bed. Take care, Karen

Response:

I’ve been on Serzone since August 13th.  I started at 50 mg and progessed to 100 mg 1x at night.  Now I’ve been bumped to 150 mg and then will go to 200 mg 1x at night. I started to really feel better then had a set back.  I am back to the low level constant shakiness and I have headaches that will not go away.  The headaches start in the back of my neck and end up behind my eye.  I also have some dizziness when I up my dose.  I am really sick of these headaches. Neither Tylenol, Tylenol Sinus or Aleve take it away.  Yesterday I tried a little caffiene and that seemed to help. No trails or nausea or skin crawl, though. I am really sick of feeling this overall weak shakiness, exactly the feeling you have if you have just gotten off the treadmill or stairmaster. I am patiently waiting for my stronger dose of Serzone to kick in.  At least my PA’s have really subsided. In the meantime, I sure could use a neck rub! Karen

Response:

Have been on serzone 300mg daily for 4 weeks. Ramped up from 200 after 10 days. I have been helped by serzone quite a bit! I have never had real relief however from the slight dizzy feelings and the general visual "trailing" or blurring of images when you move your head to look at something else. I have xanax .25 but only take them as needed. I do not take serzone on a full stomach and have not noticed nausea. I also had low grade headache and for me, mostly pressure in the back of my head before I increased to 300. Also started with a psych doc about 3 weeks ago but I cannot say it is helping much yet or if it will at all. I am going to try to get on ativan to try to combat the low level shaky feelings I seem to still have almost daily, very subtle but not enough to take a xanax as they as so short lived I don’t burn one for the shaky feelings, I just try to ride them out. Good luck on the serzone, it does work for a majority of people.I have consulted a psych doc and the real theraputic dose is 200-400mg daily but they cannot give you that much to start, you MUST ramp up to a higher dose slowly. Do not up it yourself ! Let the group know how you are progressing. It does get better! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  hello all   i have just started serzone (50 mg 2x a day)1 week ago, i also take clonazepam 2mg per day.  i suffer from GAD, and depression–and social phobia.     I am no stranger to clonazepam, but does anyone have any experience with serzone.  i have had a low grade headache and have been dizzy off and on. i understand that serzone is "supposed " to be good foe anx. and dep. please share   thanks Perry

Response:

HI Rocky, Can you explin what you mean by "visual trails"? I am having what I think is trailing but I have not seen a definition online. Thank You – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – hello all  i have just started serzone (50 mg 2x a day)1 week ago, i also take clonazepam 2mg per day.  i suffer from GAD, and depression–and social phobia.    I am no stranger to clonazepam, but does anyone have any experience with serzone.  i have had a low grade headache and have been dizzy off and on. i understand that serzone is "supposed " to be good foe anx. and dep. please share  thanks Perry Perry,         I am on serzone (400mg/day) and was once on your dosage as I was ramping up. I’ve been on it now for nearly 5 months.  It certainly helps me with controlling my anxiety levels.    I experienced quite a few headaches for the first month.  I don’t usually get headaches and so attributed it to the serzone. They subsided when I relaxed/lay down.  I am practically free from bad side effects now, the only one being drowsiness if I take a tablet with only a drink rather than a full meal.  Taking it with milk lessens this side effect for me.  Oh I also get visual trails when I wake up in the morning , this isn’t really a bad side effect.  It’s also a common one. I hope it works out for you. Rocky

Response:

Hi Perry, I began with 50mg daily back on Sep 18th and gradually (weekly) built up to my current target dose of 300mg split into morning and evening. Yes, I did have some headaches, weird skin sensations, nausea and dizziness for the first few days of each increase but they always diminished after that. I found that it helped me GREATLY to take each dose with food (someone here recommended that to me) I have only been at my target dose for about three weeks now and it took quite awhile to notice real improvement, but is has now helped very much. I am sleeping better, have my appetite back, and NO PA’s for past three weeks. In fact I have only had 4-5 of them since starting the Serzone where I was having them 3-4 times a week. I still notice some very minimal side effects but nothing bad-some nausea and a weird skin sensation..kinda like cold chills, about an hour after each dose..I call this the "hit" but it passes quickly. I took .5mg Klonopin with each dose as I built up but noticed I was feeling very sleepy so I cut it back gradually to .25mg with each dose and now I feel less tired for sure. Next step for me is to try eliminating the Klonopin and I think I can do it since the Serzone is helping so much, but if not, no big deal because I am taking only a tiny amount. For me, this drug is the first one to really help me. I have been through Prozac, Zoloft, Effexor, Depakote and Paxil. None of these others were for me I guess. Hey you guys on Serzone!! How about jumping in here? Debbie, Karen, Eric, Steve, BG and others??? Take care,

Response:

 hello all   i have just started serzone (50 mg 2x a day)1 week ago, i also take clonazepam 2mg per day.  i suffer from GAD, and depression–and social phobia.     I am no stranger to clonazepam, but does anyone have any experience with serzone.  i have had a low grade headache and have been dizzy off and on. i understand that serzone is "supposed " to be good foe anx. and dep. please share   thanks Perry

I seem to have gathered the information that Serzone is not really a first choice med for PAD (although remarkably quite some people here have positive reports) but works well when used in conjunction with Xanax. (Maybe you could try Xanax instead of Klonopin, which also seems logical as Xanax will often kill breakthrough PA’s within 15 minutes and you already have a maintenance med in Serzone). Philip (FWIW)

Response:

 hello all   i have just started serzone (50 mg 2x a day)1 week ago, i also take clonazepam 2mg per day.  i suffer from GAD, and depression–and social phobia.     I am no stranger to clonazepam, but does anyone have any experience with serzone.  i have had a low grade headache and have been dizzy off and on. i understand that serzone is "supposed " to be good foe anx. and dep. please share   thanks Perry

Response:

hello all  i have just started serzone (50 mg 2x a day)1 week ago, i also take clonazepam 2mg per day.  i suffer from GAD, and depression–and social phobia.    I am no stranger to clonazepam, but does anyone have any experience with serzone.  i have had a low grade headache and have been dizzy off and on. i understand that serzone is "supposed " to be good foe anx. and dep. please share  thanks Perry

Perry,         I am on serzone (400mg/day) and was once on your dosage as I was ramping up. I’ve been on it now for nearly 5 months.  It certainly helps me with controlling my anxiety levels.    I experienced quite a few headaches for the first month.  I don’t usually get headaches and so attributed it to the serzone. They subsided when I relaxed/lay down.  I am practically free from bad side effects now, the only one being drowsiness if I take a tablet with only a drink rather than a full meal.  Taking it with milk lessens this side effect for me.  Oh I also get visual trails when I wake up in the morning , this isn’t really a bad side effect.  It’s also a common one. I hope it works out for you. Rocky

Response: