Question:

i notice that when i do NYC races in central park (freddiemac 5K most recently) i become terribly asthmatic after about a mile.  i don’t have this problem in the NJ suburbs where i live and run other races. i am on asthma medications (serevent, flovent and nasonex.) and these do a good job for me. wondering if it’s the air quality in central park. -rei

Response:

wondering if it’s the air quality in central park.

It could very well be. I would think the ground level pollution is higher in NYC (more concentration of cars) than in the suburbs…particularly in the warmer months. For example, I used to have chronic bronchitus when I lived in the city.  When I moved to NJ the problem cleared up. Johanna "forever young" Young

Response:

Question:

What were the side effects of Mometasone furoate (if any)?  I wonder if it will eventually be a possible substitute for high dose inhaled steroids??  I really dislike the side effects from my Flovent 220.  I’m so glad it worked for your daughter and hope she can get a prescription soon.  Nancy, I know you have been waiting a long time for this…I remember your posts about the med from last year!!!  :o)

Hiya – I went looking for the notes from my study – I dont know if I was on Mometasone Furoate or not.  I know that I, personally, experienced no side effects from the inhaler.  From what my doctor mentioned, the biggest complaint was thrush, but I have always been very careful about gargling, so it wasnt a problem for me. Thanks Patrice – I am hopeful that it will come out this year, and pray that my insurance will cover it!!! Life is uncertain – eat dessert first. Nancy 8=: )

Response:

Hi Linda and others, What were the side effects of Mometasone furoate (if any)?  I wonder if it will eventually be a possible substitute for high dose inhaled steroids??  I really dislike the side effects from my Flovent 220.  I’m so glad it worked for your daughter and hope she can get a prescription soon.  Nancy, I know you have been waiting a long time for this…I remember your posts about the med from last year!!!  :o) Patrice – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My daughter (age 10) just finished a year long study of inhaled mometasone furoate. It was terrific! The doctor that performed the study said it ought to be approved around August or September of this year. Ours was a Phase 3 study. Linda CHICAGO-A dry-powder inhaler charged with mometasone furoate can reduce the need for oral corticosteroid therapy. Seeking to wean high-dose, steroid-dependent patients with severe asthma from prednisone, a Thomas Jefferson Hospital-Hershey Medical Center team administered mometasone furoate at dosages of 400 mcg or 800 mcg BID in 128 patients over three months. The same patients were later rolled into a second open-label study where they got mo-metasone furoate in a dose gradually reduced over nine months to 400 mcg BID. Among 95 patients who completed the study, daily oral prednisone usage was reduced by 86%, with 64% completely eliminating it, a team led by Dr. James E. Fish told the American College of Allergy, Asthma, and Immunology meeting here. Lung function also improved. I was in a study group for a Mometasone inhaler (not the dry powder type, the normal type) and it worked MIRACLES for me.  I have been steroid dependent for 3 years now.  By the time the study was over, I was on 2 mg a day, and on my way to getting off of that, which was unheard of before.  Once the study ended and I had to stop the medicine, I went back to my normal 20-30 mg daily. I finished this study almost 2 years ago and the company is still waiting for freakin FDA approval.  It drives me nuts knowing that a med is out there that might enable me to go back to work and have a life, and not have access to it – arrgghhhhhh!!! Life is uncertain – eat dessert first. Nancy 8=: )

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -CHICAGO-A dry-powder inhaler charged with mometasone furoate can reduce the need for oral corticosteroid therapy. Seeking to wean high-dose, steroid-dependent patients with severe asthma from prednisone, a Thomas Jefferson Hospital-Hershey Medical Center team administered mometasone furoate at dosages of 400 mcg or 800 mcg BID in 128 patients over three months. The same patients were later rolled into a second open-label study where they got mo-metasone furoate in a dose gradually reduced over nine months to 400 mcg BID. Among 95 patients who completed the study, daily oral prednisone usage was reduced by 86%, with 64% completely eliminating it, a team led by Dr. James E. Fish told the American College of Allergy, Asthma, and Immunology meeting here. Lung function also improved.

I was in a study group for a Mometasone inhaler (not the dry powder type, the normal type) and it worked MIRACLES for me.  I have been steroid dependent for 3 years now.  By the time the study was over, I was on 2 mg a day, and on my way to getting off of that, which was unheard of before.  Once the study ended and I had to stop the medicine, I went back to my normal 20-30 mg daily. I finished this study almost 2 years ago and the company is still waiting for freakin FDA approval.  It drives me nuts knowing that a med is out there that might enable me to go back to work and have a life, and not have access to it – arrgghhhhhh!!! Life is uncertain – eat dessert first. Nancy 8=: )

Response:

My daughter (age 10) just finished a year long study of inhaled mometasone furoate. It was terrific! The doctor that performed the study said it ought to be approved around August or September of this year. Ours was a Phase 3 study. Linda – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – CHICAGO-A dry-powder inhaler charged with mometasone furoate can reduce the need for oral corticosteroid therapy. Seeking to wean high-dose, steroid-dependent patients with severe asthma from prednisone, a Thomas Jefferson Hospital-Hershey Medical Center team administered mometasone furoate at dosages of 400 mcg or 800 mcg BID in 128 patients over three months. The same patients were later rolled into a second open-label study where they got mo-metasone furoate in a dose gradually reduced over nine months to 400 mcg BID. Among 95 patients who completed the study, daily oral prednisone usage was reduced by 86%, with 64% completely eliminating it, a team led by Dr. James E. Fish told the American College of Allergy, Asthma, and Immunology meeting here. Lung function also improved. I was in a study group for a Mometasone inhaler (not the dry powder type, the normal type) and it worked MIRACLES for me.  I have been steroid dependent for 3 years now.  By the time the study was over, I was on 2 mg a day, and on my way to getting off of that, which was unheard of before.  Once the study ended and I had to stop the medicine, I went back to my normal 20-30 mg daily. I finished this study almost 2 years ago and the company is still waiting for freakin FDA approval.  It drives me nuts knowing that a med is out there that might enable me to go back to work and have a life, and not have access to it – arrgghhhhhh!!! Life is uncertain – eat dessert first. Nancy 8=: )

Response:

Physician’s Weekly March 20, 2000 Mometasone furoate subs for steroids CHICAGO-A dry-powder inhaler charged with mometasone furoate can reduce the need for oral corticosteroid therapy. Seeking to wean high-dose, steroid-dependent patients with severe asthma from prednisone, a Thomas Jefferson Hospital-Hershey Medical Center team administered mometasone furoate at dosages of 400 mcg or 800 mcg BID in 128 patients over three months. The same patients were later rolled into a second open-label study where they got mo-metasone furoate in a dose gradually reduced over nine months to 400 mcg BID. Among 95 patients who completed the study, daily oral prednisone usage was reduced by 86%, with 64% completely eliminating it, a team led by Dr. James E. Fish told the American College of Allergy, Asthma, and Immunology meeting here. Lung function also improved.

Response:

Question:

Can anyone tell me if Pulmicort is as effective as I have heard from people? Side effects?  I am currently on intal, becloforte and singulair but my asthma is not completly controlled. Thanks Scott

Response:

Dear Scott, Pulmicort is approximately the same potency as Becloforte.  The most significant difference between them is that Becloforte is a traditional spray inhaler and Pulmicort is a dry powder inhaler without aerosol propellant.  Some people find that dry powder inhalers are much easier to use than an aerosol.  Many people find it difficult to inhale from spray front moving at more than 100 kilometers per hour.  For such people, switching to Pulmicort (or a comparable dry powder inhaler like Flovent Diskus) can improve asthma control.  If patients can use an aerosol inhaler and a dry powder inhaler with equal ease, Becloforte and Pulmicort will generally produce similar clinical benefit.  Has your doctor, pharmacist or other caregiver watched you using your inhaler to be sure that you can use it adequately? Your treatment regimen seems a bit confused.  Most asthma experts find that there is little benefit from adding Intal to a high concentration inhaled steroid like Becloforte.  Is your asthma being monitored by a specialist? Good luck. — Kenneth Chapman Director Asthma Centre of The Toronto Hospital Professor of Medicine University of Toronto

Response:

I have moderate asthma and have been on Pulmicort since 2/98.  I used to take Flovent 220mcg.  I was switched to Pulmicort as it did not have the systemic steroid side effects as Flovent. I have found Pulmicort to be very effective in controlling my asthma.  It has been used in europe for years prior to being approved for use here in the States.

Response:

One thing that is important is the way you take the medication. Do not tip the inhaler upward when delivering a dose.  It is easier to tip you head back slightly to open the airway and inhale the medication. It take a little time to get used to using this inhaler versus the propellant type inhaler we where all used to taking.  Good Luck!  

Response:

Can anyone tell me if Pulmicort is as effective as I have heard from people? Side effects?  I am currently on intal, becloforte and singulair but my asthma is not completly controlled. Thanks Scott If you would like current and past scientific research material, then I

suggest you refer to the internet site http://www.nlm.nih.gov/databases/freemedl.html and then click on INTERNET GRATEFUL MED and enter in the Query Terms: pulmicort, side effects, and efficacy, which should result in 17 articles you can look up in your nearest health science library or you can get an overview of the information by reading the abstracts. Budesonide, generic for Pulmicort,  is the first corticosteroid dry powder inhaler for the maintenance treatment of asthma that is used in prophylactic drug therapy. The usual dosage is 2-3 puffs per day in which there is 200mcg/puff. The drug should improve nighttime symptoms and reduce the dependence on direct beta-2-agonist bronchodilators such as albuterol sulfate. The most common associated side effects are respiratory infection, headache, orad candidiasis, dysphonia, and pharyngitis, but inhaled corticosteroids are relatively safe and effective anti-inflammatory medications. However, as with any medication, your doctor should monitor your drug therapy and any switches/add-ons to your current medications. Also, a common consumer complaint is that the drug is very fine so you might not see the drug inhalation. Intal, a mast cell stabilizer, and Singulair, a leukotriene modifier, act on different steps of the body’s reaction asthmatic attacks. There are other internet sites available to consumer such as http://www.rxmed.com and http://www.fda.gov that provide helpful new and past drug information, including clinical trial information, dosage available, drug interactions, and contraindications. If you click on http://www.pslgroup.com/ASTMA.HTM, there are over 50 internet sites that are linked including the American Lung Association and more discussion groups available. Also, http//www.publinet.it/pol/cmol/steroids/htm has individual drug monographs available on other asthma drug medications. Finally, Pulmicort should be more effective then your current medications, and if you use it chromically, it should help you to control the asthma to improve your quality of life.                                                         Bly I hope the information I suggested will be helpful to you, but I cannot make any guarantees as to its accuracy, completeness, usefulness, or relevance to your particular situation. There is no substitute for having an ongoing, two-way dialogue with a licensed health professional whom you know and trust. Good luck.

Response:

Can anyone tell me if Pulmicort is as effective as I have heard from people? Side effects?  I am currently on intal, becloforte and singulair but my asthma is not completly controlled. Thanks Scott If you would like current and past scientific research material, then I

suggest you refer to the internet site www.nlm..nih.gov./databases/freemedl.html  then click on INTERNET GRATEFUL MED and enter in the Query Terms: pulmicort, side effects, and efficacy, which should result in 17 articles you can look up in your nearest health science library or you can get an overview of the information by reading the abstracts. Budesonide, generic for If you would like current and past scientific research material, then I suggest you refer to the internet site Pulmicort,  is the first corticosteroid dry powder inhaler for the maintenance treatment of asthma that is used in prophylactic drug therapy. The usual dosage is 2-3 puffs per day in which there is 200mcg/puff. The drug should improve nighttime symptoms and reduce the dependence on direct beta-2-agonist bronchodilators such as albuterol sulfate. The most common associated side effects are respiratory infection, headache, orad candidiasis, dysphonia, and pharyngitis, but inhaled corticosteroids are relatively safe and effective anti-inflammatory medications. However, as with any medication, your doctor should monitor your drug therapy and any switches/add-ons to your current medications. Also, a common consumer complaint is that the drug is very fine so you might not see the drug inhalation. Intal, a mast cell stabilizer, and Singulair, a leukotriene modifier, act on different steps of the body

Question:

Question to the group??? Need feedback on this product….  Positive or negative.. I remember some commentary a while back but it has gone from the database…. Thank you for comments…

Response:

I’ve been using it 4 clicks twiced a day for 2 years and it helped me more than the others did. I do have a tendancy toward Candidas infections though from it. I rinse my mouth after use but some are just prone to it. The Nystatin for it works great.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Question to the group??? Need feedback on this product….  Positive or negative.. I remember some commentary a while back but it has gone from the database…. Thank you for comments…

Response:

Question to the group??? Need feedback on this product….  Positive or negative.. I remember some commentary a while back but it has gone from the database…. Thank you for comments…

Pulmicort Turbuhaler (budesonide) is one of the 2 new steroid inhalers; the other is Flovent. I use Pulmicort and consider it the best. It’s a DPI (dry powder inhaler), 200 puffs per container; I use one puff twice a day (used to use multiple puffs of weaker inhalers). It’s made by Astra of Sweden and is popular worldwide. http://www.ama-assn.org/special/asthma/treatmnt/drug/pulmicor.htm Pulmicort Turbuhaler Ellis

Response:

I have used it since ~1990, and am very very pleased with it.  No problems at all. SW

Response:

I have used it since ~1990, and am very very pleased with it.  No problems at all. SW

DITTO except mine is Feb 93.. i was on a high dose of becloforte at the time starwind turned my attention to pulmicort, and i REFUSE to go back! it improved my asthma visibly and immeasurably as to quality of life, ability to function like a human being, not an asthmatic, and my ability to fight off infections, or at least prevent them from escalating to pneumonia, as had been my previous track of life … the difference was noticed w/in 24 hours, and when i’d finally increased up to a dose my doctor felt was good for me, i’d nearly added 30% to my peakflows… Pauline

Response:

Question to the group??? Need feedback on this product….  Positive or negative.. I remember some commentary a while back but it has gone from the database…. Thank you for comments… Pulmicort Turbuhaler (budesonide) is one of the 2 new steroid inhalers; the other is Flovent. I use Pulmicort and consider it the best. It’s a DPI (dry powder inhaler), 200 puffs per container;

The leaflet with mine says that the number of puffs per container depend on the version being used – there is Pulmicort 100 (200 puffs I think), 200 (100 puffs) and 400 (50 puffs).  In other words there is the same amount of drug in each inhaler but the mechanism varies in some way to deliver different doses.  Therefore if you need 4 puffs twice a day of the 100, switching to the 400 will mean you need 1 puff twice a day but the inhaler won’t last any longer.  However it will be easier and quicker to take. I use one puff twice a day (used to use multiple puffs of weaker inhalers). It’s made by Astra of Sweden and is popular worldwide. http://www.ama-assn.org/special/asthma/treatmnt/drug/pulmicor.htm Pulmicort Turbuhaler Ellis

– Surfer!

Response:

Hi What is the incidence of thrush like with the pulmicort inhaler vs. Flovent? Switching to blue cross HMO (USA) and they do not cover azmacort. Chilla

Response:

I was very happy with Pulmicort, too (only stopped when I switched to Singulair).  I liked both the fact that the "spacer" was essentially part of the inhaler itself, and that the inhaler kept track of how many puffs you’d used, so you knew when it needed replacing. Seemed to work at least as well as Vanceril DS, which I’d been using before then.

Response:

The leaflet with mine says that the number of puffs per container depend on the version being used – there is Pulmicort 100 (200 puffs I think), 200 (100 puffs) and 400 (50 puffs).  In other words there is the same

In both Canada and the US, the 200mcg/dose version has 200 doses; not sure what the other dose versions have; the 200mcg/dose is the only one available in the US. SW.

Response:

Question to the group??? Need feedback on this product….  Positive or negative.. I remember some commentary a while back but it has gone from the database….

I’ve been using it for about a year.  I like it better than the MDI stuff.   No electrons were harmed in the posting of this message.

Response:

my 400mcg turbohaler has 200 inhalations in it… Pauline puffs at ibm dot net – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -The leaflet with mine says that the number of puffs per container depend on the version being used – there is Pulmicort 100 (200 puffs I think), 200 (100 puffs) and 400 (50 puffs).  In other words there is the same In both Canada and the US, the 200mcg/dose version has 200 doses; not sure what the other dose versions have; the 200mcg/dose is the only one available in the US. SW.

Response:

The leaflet with mine says that the number of puffs per container depend on the version being used – there is Pulmicort 100 (200 puffs I think), 200 (100 puffs) and 400 (50 puffs).  In other words there is the same amount of drug in each inhaler but the mechanism varies in some way to deliver different doses.  Therefore if you need 4 puffs twice a day of the 100, switching to the 400 will mean you need 1 puff twice a day but the inhaler won’t last any longer.  However it will be easier and quicker to take.

The capacity of pulmicort turbohaler differs in different countrys. We, in Germany have Pulmicort 200

Question:

Pulmicort and Budesonide are the same medicine.  One is the trade / brand name and the other is the generic name, just like Salbutamol  is called Ventolin. The delivery device is called a turbohaler, for the powder.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello Jack, Yes I am from the UK and Flixotide is indeed fluticasone administered with the CFC free propellant-HFA 134a, known as the Evohaler (correct spelling). So in the USA it’s known as Flovent, that’s interesting to know, thanks for pointing this out to me. I asked my chemist if the old propellant ones were still available but he said they’re being fased out…..enviromental regulations. I take it this also applies in the United States? I must say, the new evohaler doesn’t give me much confidence, especially when nearing the end of it’s 120 actuations.  The spray is sometimes very weak unlike the older propellant which was very strong and you could actually taste it which I found reasurring. Anyway, I’ll persevere, like my GP suggested but I don’t like the idea of increasing the medication, that to me seems a backward step, afterall I did so well on the 50 micrograms for the past 3 years, I don’t believe my asthma as worsend, just the change in medication. This brings me onto the powder alternative, the ‘Pulmicort’, is this the name of the actual device from which the powder is administered? And what is Budesonide? Thank you to all who replied. BTW, when I visited my GP recently I had my Peak flow checked and after 3 tries I could only get as high as 450, I was quite alarmed when he said the average for a normal male of my age and height is 680. John. < John.  Don’t think I have the answers but want to clairify some items as it’s apparent you’re writing from outside the US, probably from the UK and some important names are different. Flixotide is fluticasone isn’t it?  We call it Flovent.  Available here with propellant or as a powder. If you want to try a powder ’steroid just as good I’m pretty sure you can get the Budesonide (Pulmocort) Turbuhaler Are you sure this Evoinhaler isn’t powder? You sound like someone having a bad time handling a powder ’steroid.  In which case you may want to go back to a propelled  medication whether the old  or new type. (Also in which case your doctor wasn’t listening to your complaint, ‘ cause he should sure as ____ should know whether the medicaton is powder or the new propellant.)

Response:

John.  Don’t think I have the answers but want to clairify some items as it’s apparent you’re writing from outside the US, probably from the UK and some important names are different. Flixotide is fluticasone isn’t it?  We call it Flovent.  Available here with propellant or as a powder. If you want to try a powder ’steroid just as good I’m pretty sure you can get the Budesonide (Pulmocort) Turbuhaler Are you sure this Evoinhaler isn’t powder? You sound like someone having a bad time handling a powder ’steroid.  In which case you may want to go back to a propelled  medication whether the old  or new type. (Also in which case your doctor wasn’t listening to your complaint, ‘ cause he should sure as ____ should know whether the medicaton is powder or the new propellant.)

Response:

Hello Jack, Yes I am from the UK and Flixotide is indeed fluticasone administered with the CFC free propellant-HFA 134a, known as the Evohaler (correct spelling). So in the USA it’s known as Flovent, that’s interesting to know, thanks for pointing this out to me. I asked my chemist if the old propellant ones were still available but he said they’re being fased out…..enviromental regulations. I take it this also applies in the United States? I must say, the new evohaler doesn’t give me much confidence, especially when nearing the end of it’s 120 actuations.  The spray is sometimes very weak unlike the older propellant which was very strong and you could actually taste it which I found reasurring. Anyway, I’ll persevere, like my GP suggested but I don’t like the idea of increasing the medication, that to me seems a backward step, afterall I did so well on the 50 micrograms for the past 3 years, I don’t believe my asthma as worsend, just the change in medication. This brings me onto the powder alternative, the ‘Pulmicort’, is this the name of the actual device from which the powder is administered? And what is Budesonide? Thank you to all who replied. BTW, when I visited my GP recently I had my Peak flow checked and after 3 tries I could only get as high as 450, I was quite alarmed when he said the average for a normal male of my age and height is 680. John. < – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – John.  Don’t think I have the answers but want to clairify some items as it’s apparent you’re writing from outside the US, probably from the UK and some important names are different. Flixotide is fluticasone isn’t it?  We call it Flovent.  Available here with propellant or as a powder. If you want to try a powder ’steroid just as good I’m pretty sure you can get the Budesonide (Pulmocort) Turbuhaler Are you sure this Evoinhaler isn’t powder? You sound like someone having a bad time handling a powder ’steroid.  In which case you may want to go back to a propelled  medication whether the old  or new type. (Also in which case your doctor wasn’t listening to your complaint, ‘ cause he should sure as ____ should know whether the medicaton is powder or the new propellant.)

Response:

I can remember when I couldn’t see across the street on smoggy days. I think that things are actually a lot better, as compared to the 60s for example. Perhaps you are younger, and don’t remember! Boyd — "The cure for boredom is curiosity. There is no cure for curiosity."

Response:

I wonder whether recent environmental degeneration has had an impact on our air quality / pollutants and therefore a knock-on effect to asthma sufferers

This has been examined.  Poor air quality can aggravate existing asthma but will not cause asthma. "Usenet is like a herd of performing elephants with diarrhea — massive, diffucult to redirect, awe-inspiring, entertaining, and a source of mind boggling amounts of excrement when you least expect it." Gene Spafford 1992

Response:

Since I was put on Flixotide 50 (replacing Becotide 100) about three years ago, my ashtma has been very well controlled, so much so I rarely used my Ventolin/Salbutomol, quite a dramatic improvement to say I used to use my ventolin 2/3 times aday for several years. But now my inhaler has changed to a more enviromently friendly ‘Evoinhaler’ and after a couple of days of using the new evoinhaler, my asthma came back to trouble me. The first thing I noticed when using it was that I couldn’t taste the medication, very unreasurring, not knowing if it was administer correctly or not and it doesn’t spray so powerfully as the old type.  Secondly, a little while after use my chest would tighten a little and now I have a dry/barking cough, maybe it’s the different propellent that’s not suiting me? My Doctor said I should persevere, to readjust and if necessary he would increase the medication to 100. I would like to hear of other peoples experiences with this Evoinhaler, maybe you’ve noticed a difference too. Also, is Flixotide available in dry powder form?  I use to use a spinhaler which I found effective. Thanks. BTW this is my first post to a newsgroup, I discovered this newsgroup with the help of a friend. John age 35

Response:

I just got changed from Flovent to pulmicort for the same reason (propellant made my chest tight after use.) works lots better. I think Flovent has changed it’s propellant, too. Boyd — "The cure for boredom is curiosity. There is no cure for curiosity."

Response:

Instead of Beclazone 250, I am using now Seretide 250 (a snazzy little non CFC inhaler) and it has given me alot more control of my asthma.  After nearly two years in & out of hospital I am relieved to have found it & thoroughly recomend it !! Have you noticed an increase in your own asthmatic events over the last few years? I wonder whether recent environmental degeneration has had an impact on our air quality / pollutants and therefore a knock-on effect to asthma sufferers …….

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Since I was put on Flixotide 50 (replacing Becotide 100) about three years ago, my ashtma has been very well controlled, so much so I rarely used my Ventolin/Salbutomol, quite a dramatic improvement to say I used to use my ventolin 2/3 times aday for several years. But now my inhaler has changed to a more enviromently friendly ‘Evoinhaler’ and after a couple of days of using the new evoinhaler, my asthma came back to trouble me. The first thing I noticed when using it was that I couldn’t taste the medication, very unreasurring, not knowing if it was administer correctly or not and it doesn’t spray so powerfully as the old type.  Secondly, a little while after use my chest would tighten a little and now I have a dry/barking cough, maybe it’s the different propellent that’s not suiting me? My Doctor said I should persevere, to readjust and if necessary he would increase the medication to 100. I would like to hear of other peoples experiences with this Evoinhaler, maybe you’ve noticed a difference too. Also, is Flixotide available in dry powder form?  I use to use a spinhaler which I found effective. Thanks. BTW this is my first post to a newsgroup, I discovered this newsgroup with the help of a friend. John age 35

Response:

Question:

::Hi, Philip, ::No I didn’t know that.  Today I did NOT have a cig.  I hope to be smoke-free ::as of today… C*O*N*G*R*A*T*U*L*A*T*I*O*N*S!!!!! Wishing you continued success with being smoke-free. (((((Elise))))) Jackie ~*~When they discover the center of the universe, a lot of people will be disappointed to discover they are not it~*~           ~~ Bernard Bailey

That is SO WONDERFUL!!!  I am so proud of you! (((((((Elise))))))) Sally — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, Sally, My appt isn’t until Tuesday but at least I have that to look forward to. Same here with the leaves.  Then many seem to land right in front of my garage door. We keep the doors down so the leaves aren’t all in the garage. Any bites on the house? smiles, Elise I am SO GLAD you get to go to the doctor tomorrow.  You really need that appointment.  Isn’t this wind something else??  We have no trees in our yard, but thanks to the wind, I have about as many leaves as the rest of the neighbors.  Not only that, but the wind blew down my For Sale sign, and I had to put it back up, and the bird bath keeps filling up with leaves!!!!  Grab on to something and hold on so you don’t blow away!! ((((((((((((((((((u))))))))))))))))))))) Sally

Elise, I’ve got that exact same thing with my garage door. What’s up with that?  Why do all the leaves congregate right at the door?? No, so far we haven’t had an offers on the house.  I’m getting lookers about every other day now.  My aunt keeps telling me that all I need is just ONE buyer..so I’ve got my fingers crossed.  Thanks for asking. Sally — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi, Dawn, I wish I knew what to say to make it all better for you.  Not being an expert in anything psychological, I am not sure how suppressed feelings effect one’s well being, and if there is a benefit to getting them out.   Logic says yes, but that sure doesn’t help the way you are feeling.

***Right now I have mixed feelings over it.  I’ve wanted my emotional being back for a long time but now that it seems to be coming through I have some fears of how it will affect me.  I keep trying to remind myself that much of what I feel is natural and that’s it’s all been locked up in there for so long…  I need to remember to deep breath and do self-positive talk. I also wish I could help with the Wellbutrin. I have considered it myself to counterbalance my sedating (ha–not for me!) AD, but am not sure about the stimulating effect it is purported to have.   It does sound like it’s working for you to some degree. Weight loss is a good thing, right?  I’m with you there .

***Yes, weight loss has been an issue for me for a long time with the ADs. I really want to lose some weight before my daughter’s wedding.  I think I need to ask the phy asst what to expect from upping the med.  I really should be on 300 mgs by now but I took such a long time getting off the Zoloft hoping NOT to need an AD that I’m way behind where I should be.  Oh well, I’ll probably hear about that…ugh! I don’t know what else is happening in your life, but I hope that things get better and easier for you very soon.  If you posted about it, I apologize for missing it.  I miss a lot of posts.

***No, I haven’t posted about many of the issues going on in my life.  I always try to be the problem solver and not the person needing help.  Stupid me…at times. I hope things are going well for you, Dawn… smiles, Elise ((((((((((((Elise))))))))))))) Love, Dawn — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

::And yes there are many things going on in my life also now I am down to 1 ::cig a day (and have been for 2 weeks now). Dear Elise, It`s very important you tell your the NP on Tuesday that you have almost quit smoking. From a few of your posts today I get the feeling you are suffering from depression. Of course only your doctor can tell you that for sure. Smoking may have been a way of self-medicating your depression. I remember a famous NY baseball player in 97 that suffered a bad depression after he quit smoking. Just wanted to make sure you mention this to your doctor. (((((Elise)))))

I had the same thing happen but the other way around.  As soon as I started Nortriptyline, without trying or giving it any thought, I went from about 20 a day to 5 a day.  I wish I could just quit all together! Tono — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

::Hi, Philip, ::No I didn’t know that.  Today I did NOT have a cig.  I hope to be smoke-free ::as of today… C*O*N*G*R*A*T*U*L*A*T*I*O*N*S!!!!! Wishing you continued success with being smoke-free. (((((Elise))))) Jackie ~*~When they discover the center of the universe, a lot of people will be disappointed to discover they are not it~*~           ~~ Bernard Bailey — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <Gently snipped ::I am also taking Clonazepam 1mg twice daily and Inderal, as needed. ::Many different issues going on in my life right now – good things, stressful ::things and issues I have no control over. ::Any insight from anyone on Wellbutrin XL?  Or any thoughts from anyone…  I ::do have a doctor’s appointment scheduled for Tuesday if my daughter is able ::to take me since this is out of my safe driving zone. Dear Elise, I`m sorry you are feeling so out of sorts with yourself. You are one of the most beautiful people I know and it saddens me to think you feel so badly about yourself. <snip Jackie

Let me also say that I feel the same way as Jackie wrote. Tono — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi, Jackie, I did put the smoking on my list for the doctor’s appt.  I’m trying to do a short-term time line so I can have that to reference to during the appt. Thanks, Jackie. smiles, Elise

I take it that you’re aware of the fact that Wellbutrin is also marketed under the name of *Zyban* to help quit smoking? P. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Dear Elise, It`s very important you tell your the NP on Tuesday that you have almost quit smoking. From a few of your posts today I get the feeling you are suffering from depression. Of course only your doctor can tell you that for sure. Smoking may have been a way of self-medicating your depression. I remember a famous NY baseball player in 97 that suffered a bad depression after he quit smoking. Just wanted to make sure you mention this to your doctor. (((((Elise))))) Jackie ~*~When they discover the center of the universe, a lot of people will be disappointed to discover they are not it~*~          ~~ Bernard Bailey — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi, Philip, No I didn’t know that.  Today I did NOT have a cig.  I hope to be smoke-free as of today… smiles, Elise

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, Jackie, I did put the smoking on my list for the doctor’s appt.  I’m trying to do a short-term time line so I can have that to reference to during the appt. Thanks, Jackie. smiles, Elise I take it that you’re aware of the fact that Wellbutrin is also marketed under the name of *Zyban* to help quit smoking? P. Dear Elise, It`s very important you tell your the NP on Tuesday that you have almost quit smoking. From a few of your posts today I get the feeling you are suffering from depression. Of course only your doctor can tell you that for sure. Smoking may have been a way of self-medicating your depression. I remember a famous NY baseball player in 97 that suffered a bad depression after he quit smoking. Just wanted to make sure you mention this to your doctor. (((((Elise))))) Jackie ~*~When they discover the center of the universe, a lot of people will be disappointed to discover they are not it~*~          ~~ Bernard Bailey — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi, Chip, I do feel many of those behaviors are part of what I am going through. Suicidal no, but wishing it would all end at times has been running through my mind lately. I thought about going back on the Zoloft but I just don’t can’t take the weight gain.  I’m going to do a small time line of how things have come down lately so I have something that the phy asst can see and be able to question me from. smiles, Elise

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I`m wondering if you are depressed. With depression comes stinkin thinkin and low sense of self-worth. I think Elise is depressed. It seemed to start when she weaned off the Zoloft. She also felt a little better when she started the Wellbutrin. Which is also consistant with depression.  I weaned off Zoloft several years ago to see how I’d do without it, and got depressed, so I restarted the Zoloft and the depression resolved. Chip below are diagnostic criteria for Major Depressive Episode: Criteria for Major Depressive Episode A. Five (or more) of the following symptoms have been present during the same 2-week period and represent a change from previous functioning; at least one of the symptoms is either    (1) depressed mood or    (2) loss of interest or pleasure. Note: Do not include symptoms that are clearly due to a general medical condition, or mood-incongruent delusions or hallucinations. (1) depressed mood most of the day, nearly every day, as indicated by either subjective report (e.g., feels sad or empty) or observation made by others (e.g., appears tearful). Note: In children and adolescents, can be irritable mood. (2) markedly diminished interest or pleasure in all, or almost all, activities most of the day, nearly every day (as indicated by either subjective account or observation made by others) (3) significant weight loss when not dieting or weight gain (e.g., a change of more than 5% of body weight in a month), or decrease or increase in appetite nearly every day. Note: In children, consider failure to make expected weight gains. (4) Insomnia or Hypersomnia nearly every day (5) psychomotor agitation or retardation nearly every day (observable by others, not merely subjective feelings of restlessness or being slowed down) (6) fatigue or loss of energy nearly every day (7) feelings of worthlessness or excessive or inappropriate guilt (which may be delusional) nearly every day (not merely self-reproach or guilt about being sick) (8) diminished ability to think or concentrate, or indecisiveness, nearly every day (either by subjective account or as observed by others) (9) recurrent thoughts of death (not just fear of dying), recurrent suicidal ideation without a specific plan, or a suicide attempt or a specific plan for committing suicide B. The symptoms do not meet criteria for a Mixed Episode (of manic depression) C. The symptoms cause clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning. D. The symptoms are not due to the direct physiological effects of a substance (e.g., a drug of abuse, a medication) or a general medical condition (e.g., hypothyroidism). E. The symptoms are not better accounted for by Bereavement, i.e., after the loss of a loved one, the symptoms persist for longer than 2 months or are characterized by marked functional impairment, morbid preoccupation with worthlessness, suicidal ideation, psychotic symptoms, or psychomotor retardation. Reprinted without the permission from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, fourth Edition. Copyright 1994 American Psychiatric Association — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi, Sally, My appt isn’t until Tuesday but at least I have that to look forward to. Same here with the leaves.  Then many seem to land right in front of my garage door. We keep the doors down so the leaves aren’t all in the garage. Any bites on the house? smiles, Elise – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am SO GLAD you get to go to the doctor tomorrow.  You really need that appointment.  Isn’t this wind something else??  We have no trees in our yard, but thanks to the wind, I have about as many leaves as the rest of the neighbors.  Not only that, but the wind blew down my For Sale sign, and I had to put it back up, and the bird bath keeps filling up with leaves!!!!  Grab on to something and hold on so you don’t blow away!! ((((((((((((((((((u))))))))))))))))))))) Sally — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi, Jackie, I did put the smoking on my list for the doctor’s appt.  I’m trying to do a short-term time line so I can have that to reference to during the appt. Thanks, Jackie. smiles, Elise – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dear Elise, It`s very important you tell your the NP on Tuesday that you have almost quit smoking. From a few of your posts today I get the feeling you are suffering from depression. Of course only your doctor can tell you that for sure. Smoking may have been a way of self-medicating your depression. I remember a famous NY baseball player in 97 that suffered a bad depression after he quit smoking. Just wanted to make sure you mention this to your doctor. (((((Elise))))) Jackie ~*~When they discover the center of the universe, a lot of people will be

disappointed to discover they are not it~*~           ~~ Bernard Bailey — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, Sally, Thank you for your caring reply.  Yeah, I know I do and have had a lot on my plate.  I agree with your pdoc about the meds not always being the problem but how much is in the equation.  Very wise.  I was thinking of that very same thing a while ago before I took a nap.  I always have to be my problem solver…<g My daughter is able to go with me so at least I now have that "hope" to live on for my appointment. I hope you aren’t getting blown away with the wind. smiles, Elise Hi, all, Well I feel like melting down is exactly what I am doing now.  I feel ugly about my inner self and the world around me.  I have nothing nice to say to anyone directly in my life and actually think of ugly things I could say to them.  Maybe I’ve suppressed my feelings for so long that everything is coming to a head. I did make the med change to Wellbutrin XL, finally, about the beginning of October.  Prior to that I was attempting to wean off the Zoloft and was down to such a minute amount and starting to feel this ugliness inside me and extremely short tempered.  This is when I went onto the Wellbutrin XL 150 mgs and started to feel a bit better.  I increased it again last week by 75 mgs.  The short temperedness has gone away. The only plus side is that I lost some weight about 3 weeks into the process of weaning off the Zoloft and going onto the Wellbutrin XL.  I am aware that I am finally experiencing some feelings which has been an issue for me for years due to them being blunted.  I feel like I’m in a catch 22 right now. Go back on a different AD then possibly weight goes on with that and my feelings get blunted or stay on the Wellbutrin XL and either I continue to feel this ugliness or maybe given time things will change since the short-temperedness did go away. I am also taking Clonazepam 1mg twice daily and Inderal, as needed. Many different issues going on in my life right now – good things, stressful things and issues I have no control over. Any insight from anyone on Wellbutrin XL?  Or any thoughts from anyone…  I do have a doctor’s appointment scheduled for Tuesday if my daughter is able to take me since this is out of my safe driving zone. smiles, Elise ((((((((Elise))))))))))) I was afraid of something like this.  Not because of the meds, but because of the situational stuff going on in your life.  A med change in the middle of all that just complicates matters. I can’t answer the med questions either, but I know there are people here who can.  Personally, I wouldn’t let weight gain even be a factor about whether to take a med or not.  I mean, we’re not talking about 30 pounds or anything.  Just a few, and you can up your excersize and work them off, so don’t let that even be a factor in what you decide on doing about your meds. Oh, I do hope you can make your appointment!  Tell your daughter it’s REAL important that you go.  You really need to talk to your pdoc about the symptoms you are having.  And also, I will say this.  When we found out my mother was dying I talked to my pdoc about whether we should do a med change or something to help me through it.  He was an older man. I liked him so much and he was so wise.  He just kind of looked at me and said "There’s no magic pill for situations like this." — Realize that you are under pressure from all sides of you, and factor that into the equation too.  It’s more than just the meds.  You have so much on your plate that it’s no wonder you’re melting down.  Even someone without anxiety issues would be doing the same thing. (((((((((((Elise))))))))))  you are always there for all of us.  I hope we can be there for you.  I hope some others here can give you advice about the meds, and you know, my inbox is always open to you if you need to vent. Love, Sally

Elise, I am SO GLAD you get to go to the doctor tomorrow.  You really need that appointment.  Isn’t this wind something else??  We have no trees in our yard, but thanks to the wind, I have about as many leaves as the rest of the neighbors.  Not only that, but the wind blew down my For Sale sign, and I had to put it back up, and the bird bath keeps filling up with leaves!!!!  Grab on to something and hold on so you don’t blow away!! ((((((((((((((((((u))))))))))))))))))))) Sally — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

I`m wondering if you are depressed. With depression comes stinkin thinkin and low sense of self-worth.

I think Elise is depressed. It seemed to start when she weaned off the Zoloft. She also felt a little better when she started the Wellbutrin. Which is also consistant with depression.  I weaned off Zoloft several years ago to see how I’d do without it, and got depressed, so I restarted the Zoloft and the depression resolved. Chip below are diagnostic criteria for Major Depressive Episode: Criteria for Major Depressive Episode A. Five (or more) of the following symptoms have been present during the same 2-week period and represent a change from previous functioning; at least one of the symptoms is either    (1) depressed mood or    (2) loss of interest or pleasure. Note: Do not include symptoms that are clearly due to a general medical condition, or mood-incongruent delusions or hallucinations. (1) depressed mood most of the day, nearly every day, as indicated by either subjective report (e.g., feels sad or empty) or observation made by others (e.g., appears tearful). Note: In children and adolescents, can be irritable mood. (2) markedly diminished interest or pleasure in all, or almost all, activities most of the day, nearly every day (as indicated by either subjective account or observation made by others) (3) significant weight loss when not dieting or weight gain (e.g., a change of more than 5% of body weight in a month), or decrease or increase in appetite nearly every day. Note: In children, consider failure to make expected weight gains. (4) Insomnia or Hypersomnia nearly every day (5) psychomotor agitation or retardation nearly every day (observable by others, not merely subjective feelings of restlessness or being slowed down) (6) fatigue or loss of energy nearly every day (7) feelings of worthlessness or excessive or inappropriate guilt (which may be delusional) nearly every day (not merely self-reproach or guilt about being sick) (8) diminished ability to think or concentrate, or indecisiveness, nearly every day (either by subjective account or as observed by others) (9) recurrent thoughts of death (not just fear of dying), recurrent suicidal ideation without a specific plan, or a suicide attempt or a specific plan for committing suicide B. The symptoms do not meet criteria for a Mixed Episode (of manic depression) C. The symptoms cause clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning. D. The symptoms are not due to the direct physiological effects of a substance (e.g., a drug of abuse, a medication) or a general medical condition (e.g., hypothyroidism). E. The symptoms are not better accounted for by Bereavement, i.e., after the loss of a loved one, the symptoms persist for longer than 2 months or are characterized by marked functional impairment, morbid preoccupation with worthlessness, suicidal ideation, psychotic symptoms, or psychomotor retardation. Reprinted without the permission from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, fourth Edition. Copyright 1994 American Psychiatric Association — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

::And yes there are many things going on in my life also now I am down to 1 ::cig a day (and have been for 2 weeks now). Dear Elise, It`s very important you tell your the NP on Tuesday that you have almost quit smoking. From a few of your posts today I get the feeling you are suffering from depression. Of course only your doctor can tell you that for sure. Smoking may have been a way of self-medicating your depression. I remember a famous NY baseball player in 97 that suffered a bad depression after he quit smoking. Just wanted to make sure you mention this to your doctor. (((((Elise))))) Jackie ~*~When they discover the center of the universe, a lot of people will be disappointed to discover they are not it~*~           ~~ Bernard Bailey — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, all, Well I feel like melting down is exactly what I am doing now.  I feel ugly about my inner self and the world around me.  I have nothing nice to say to anyone directly in my life and actually think of ugly things I could say to them.  Maybe I’ve suppressed my feelings for so long that everything is coming to a head. I did make the med change to Wellbutrin XL, finally, about the beginning of October.  Prior to that I was attempting to wean off the Zoloft and was down to such a minute amount and starting to feel this ugliness inside me and extremely short tempered.  This is when I went onto the Wellbutrin XL 150 mgs and started to feel a bit better.  I increased it again last week by 75 mgs.  The short temperedness has gone away. The only plus side is that I lost some weight about 3 weeks into the process of weaning off the Zoloft and going onto the Wellbutrin XL.  I am aware that I am finally experiencing some feelings which has been an issue for me for years due to them being blunted.  I feel like I’m in a catch 22 right now. Go back on a different AD then possibly weight goes on with that and my feelings get blunted or stay on the Wellbutrin XL and either I continue to feel this ugliness or maybe given time things will change since the short-temperedness did go away. I am also taking Clonazepam 1mg twice daily and Inderal, as needed. Many different issues going on in my life right now – good things, stressful things and issues I have no control over. Any insight from anyone on Wellbutrin XL?  Or any thoughts from anyone…  I do have a doctor’s appointment scheduled for Tuesday if my daughter is able to take me since this is out of my safe driving zone. smiles, Elise

Dearest Elise, I wish I knew what to say to make it all better for you.  Not being an expert in anything psychological, I am not sure how suppressed feelings effect one’s well being, and if there is a benefit to getting them out.   Logic says yes, but that sure doesn’t help the way you are feeling. I also wish I could help with the Wellbutrin. I have considered it myself to counterbalance my sedating (ha–not for me!) AD, but am not sure about the stimulating effect it is purported to have.   It does sound like it’s working for you to some degree. Weight loss is a good thing, right?  I’m with you there . I don’t know what else is happening in your life, but I hope that things get better and easier for you very soon.  If you posted about it, I apologize for missing it.  I miss a lot of posts. ((((((((((((Elise))))))))))))) Love, Dawn — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi, Jackie, Thank you for your support.  I will be seeing a phy asst who works under the Psychiatrist I used to see.  He just is so difficult to get an appointment with that I have found it easier on myself to see the PA instead. For some odd reason many articles about depression came my way today.  I’ve read them all and will be asking the PA about them.  One I found very interesting was the Vitamin B Deficiency checklist.  Wow, I could relate to everything the article said and the checklist was me on the dot. I’ll see what the appointment brings and keep myself moving one step at a time until then. smiles, Elise

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <Gently snipped ::I am also taking Clonazepam 1mg twice daily and Inderal, as needed. ::Many different issues going on in my life right now – good things, stressful ::things and issues I have no control over. ::Any insight from anyone on Wellbutrin XL?  Or any thoughts from anyone…  I ::do have a doctor’s appointment scheduled for Tuesday if my daughter is able ::to take me since this is out of my safe driving zone. Dear Elise, I`m sorry you are feeling so out of sorts with yourself. You are one of the most beautiful people I know and it saddens me to think you feel so badly about yourself. What kind of doctor would you be seeing on Tuesday? I hope it is a psychiatrist. He would be the best person to determine what may be going on. It doesn`t appear to be an issue with wellbutrin being this started before you even started it. I`m wondering if you are depressed. With depression comes stinkin thinkin and low sense of self-worth. Another option would be to see a therapist every week for a few months. I think it would do you a lot of good to explore these thoughts and emotions you are having. Keep talking to us, we`ll do our best to help and support you. (((((Elise))))) Jackie ~*~When they discover the center of the universe, a lot of people will be

disappointed to discover they are not it~*~           ~~ Bernard Bailey — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi, Chip, Hi, all, Well I feel like melting down is exactly what I am doing now.  I feel ugly about my inner self and the world around me. Those are thoughts (cognitive), not feelings (emotions). Negative thoughts lead to negative feelings. I have had the same thoughts and consequent feelings when I’m under a lot of stress.

***True but I am finding myself crying a lot today and feeling off kilter. I have nothing nice to say to anyone directly in my life and actually

think of ugly things I could say to them.  Maybe I’ve suppressed my feelings for so long that everything is coming to a head. Could be. Or maybe you’re under a lot of stress right now which  leads to negative thoughts and feelings about oneself and the world.

***I hope it is the stress and I can find a ay to break it all down into smaller pieces and deal with it. I did make the med change to Wellbutrin XL, finally, about the beginning of October.  Prior to that I was attempting to wean off the Zoloft and was down to such a minute amount and starting to feel this ugliness inside me and extremely short tempered. Irritability could be due to Zoloft withdrawal or depression. Or anything that makes one feel uncomfortable. When I’m depressed I get irritable.

***TFortunately, the extreme irritability went away after I started on the Wellbutrin XL now I get these ugly thoughts about people maybe over something they done or said to me and I just want to throw it right back in their face.  This is truly not me.  I’ve always been one to take the higher road even when i was more tempting to take the lower road. This is when I went onto the Wellbutrin XL 150 mgs and started to feel a bit better. Better in what way?

***The irritability and agitation have gone away.  I increased it again last week by 75 mgs.  The short temperedness has gone away. The only plus side is that I lost some weight about 3 weeks into the process of weaning off the Zoloft and going onto the Wellbutrin XL.  I am aware that I am finally experiencing some feelings which has been an issue for me for years due to them being blunted. Do you mean blunted by meds?

***No.  I haven’t been able to cry, show true happiness or joy, even get really mad.  I’ve had the Zoloft there keeping me at such an even par that excitement or fury didn’t appeal or bother me. What feelings and emotions have you blunted?

***Happiness, sadness, joy, excitement, anger, etc… I feel like I’m in a catch 22 right now. Go back on a different AD then possibly weight goes on with that and my feelings get blunted or stay on the Wellbutrin XL and either I continue to feel this ugliness or maybe given time things will change since the short-temperedness did go away. Since you have several factors going on in your life right now, it’s difficult to speculate how changing just one (such as a med change) would effect how you think and feel.

***I have been on many of the different ADs and feel I have a sense of how I feel when on or off of them. And yes there are many things going on in my life also now I am down to 1 cig a day (and have been for 2 weeks now).  I don’t feel I have any desire or cravings for a cig outside of the one I have in the a.m.  I have wondered today about the nicotine though.  What if any role after almost 3 months of weaning off them (some mornings not even thinkuing about having a cig.) if this could be a problem also. What do you think has led to your irritablility?

***Good question?  Weaning off  Zoloft?  Going on the Wellbutrin XL? Quitting smoking?  A combination of everything… I am also taking Clonazepam 1mg twice daily and Inderal, as needed. Many different issues going on in my life right now – good things, stressful things and issues I have no control over. What don’t you have control over?

***Work especially.  It’s been a disappointment and lack of confidence in the executive dirctor for several years for the majority of the office. When it truly gets down to dealing with the situation which we did we have "The Good Old Boys" show up at a staff meeting and  basically tell US to be quiet, lay low, clean your houses, do your job…  So no support there which says she runs the show.  Very disappointing and sad for an agency to be run by such an inept person…ugh! (((Elise))), you have a lot of stresses occuring in your life right now. Both going on Wellbuitrin, and coming off Zoloft can be stressful. Plus your daughter’s shower and wedding are stresses. They need alot of planning. If anyone has enough stress on them, they can feel uncomfortable and irritable, and the whole world can start looking ugly. Below are a list of negative "core beliefs". They may be helpful to you. Maybe they apply to you at this time.

***Chip, from reading the list of "core beliefs", goodness I fit into so many right now.  I will forward these to work and read them off and on the next few days to give me the strength to get through.  I know in time I will make a turn around but it’s so difficult when you feel you are right in the middle of the storm and have to ride it out. Thanks, Chip. smiles, Elise – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Chip Core Beliefs Core beliefs are one’s most central ideas about the self. Aaron Beck theorizes that negative core beliefs fall into two broad categories (see below): those associated with helplessness and those associated with unlovability. Some patients have core beliefs that fall in one category; others have core beliefs in both categories. These core beliefs develop in childhood as the child interacts with significant others and encounters a series of situations. For most of their lives most people may maintain relatively positive core beliefs. Negative core beliefs may surface only during times of psychological distress. Negative core beliefs are usually global, overgeneralized and absolute. When a core belief is activated, the patient is easily able to process information that supports it, but often fails to recognize or distorts information that is contrary to it. The cognitive therapist attempts to identify and modify negative core beliefs. Helpless core beliefs: I am helpless I am powerless I am out of control I am weak I am vulnerable I am needy I am trapped I am inadequate I am ineffective I am incompetent I am a failure I am disrespected Unlovable core beliefs: I am unlovable I am unlikable I am undesirable I am unattractive I am unwanted I am uncared for I am bad I am unworthy I am different I am bound to be rejected I am bound to be abandoned I am bound to be alone — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, all, Well I feel like melting down is exactly what I am doing now.  I feel ugly about my inner self and the world around me.  I have nothing nice to say to anyone directly in my life and actually think of ugly things I could say to them.  Maybe I’ve suppressed my feelings for so long that everything is coming to a head. I did make the med change to Wellbutrin XL, finally, about the beginning of October.  Prior to that I was attempting to wean off the Zoloft and was down to such a minute amount and starting to feel this ugliness inside me and extremely short tempered.  This is when I went onto the Wellbutrin XL 150 mgs and started to feel a bit better.  I increased it again last week by 75 mgs.  The short temperedness has gone away. The only plus side is that I lost some weight about 3 weeks into the process of weaning off the Zoloft and going onto the Wellbutrin XL.  I am aware that I am finally experiencing some feelings which has been an issue for me for years due to them being blunted.  I feel like I’m in a catch 22 right now. Go back on a different AD then possibly weight goes on with that and my feelings get blunted or stay on the Wellbutrin XL and either I continue to feel this ugliness or maybe given time things will change since the short-temperedness did go away. I am also taking Clonazepam 1mg twice daily and Inderal, as needed. Many different issues going on in my life right now – good things, stressful things and issues I have no control over. Any insight from anyone on Wellbutrin XL?  Or any thoughts from anyone…  I do have a doctor’s appointment scheduled for Tuesday if my daughter is able to take me since this is out of my safe driving zone. smiles, Elise

((((((((Elise))))))))))) I was afraid of something like this.  Not because of the meds, but because of the situational stuff going on in your life.  A med change in the middle of all that just complicates matters. I can’t answer the med questions either, but I know there are people here who can.  Personally, I wouldn’t let weight gain even be a factor about whether to take a med or not.  I mean, we’re not talking about 30 pounds or anything.  Just a few, and you can up your excersize and work them off, so don’t let that even be a factor in what you decide on doing about your meds. Oh, I do hope you can make your appointment!  Tell your daughter it’s REAL important that you go.  You really need to talk to your pdoc about the symptoms you are having.  And also, I will say this.  When we found out my mother was dying I talked to my pdoc about whether we should do a med change or something to help me through it.  He was an older man. I liked him so much and he was so wise.  He just kind of looked at me and said "There’s no magic pill for situations like this." — Realize that you are under pressure from all sides of you, and factor that into the equation too.  It’s more than just the meds.  You have so much on your plate that it’s no wonder you’re melting down.  Even someone without anxiety issues would be doing the same thing. (((((((((((Elise))))))))))  you are always there for all of us.  I hope we can be there for you.  I hope some others here can give you advice about the meds, and you know, my inbox is always open to you if you need to vent. Love, Sally — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi, Sally, Thank you for your caring reply.  Yeah, I know I do and have had a lot on my plate.  I agree with your pdoc about the meds not always being the problem but how much is in the equation.  Very wise.  I was thinking of that very same thing a while ago before I took a nap.  I always have to be my problem solver…<g My daughter is able to go with me so at least I now have that "hope" to live on for my appointment. I hope you aren’t getting blown away with the wind. smiles, Elise

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, all, Well I feel like melting down is exactly what I am doing now.  I feel ugly about my inner self and the world around me.  I have nothing nice to say to anyone directly in my life and actually think of ugly things I could say to them.  Maybe I’ve suppressed my feelings for so long that everything is coming to a head. I did make the med change to Wellbutrin XL, finally, about the beginning of October.  Prior to that I was attempting to wean off the Zoloft and was down to such a minute amount and starting to feel this ugliness inside me and extremely short tempered.  This is when I went onto the Wellbutrin XL 150 mgs and started to feel a bit better.  I increased it again last week by 75 mgs.  The short temperedness has gone away. The only plus side is that I lost some weight about 3 weeks into the process of weaning off the Zoloft and going onto the Wellbutrin XL.  I am aware that I am finally experiencing some feelings which has been an issue for me for years due to them being blunted.  I feel like I’m in a catch 22 right now. Go back on a different AD then possibly weight goes on with that and my feelings get blunted or stay on the Wellbutrin XL and either I continue to feel this ugliness or maybe given time things will change since the short-temperedness did go away. I am also taking Clonazepam 1mg twice daily and Inderal, as needed. Many different issues going on in my life right now – good things, stressful things and issues I have no control over. Any insight from anyone on Wellbutrin XL?  Or any thoughts from anyone…  I do have a doctor’s appointment scheduled for Tuesday if my daughter is able to take me since this is out of my safe driving zone. smiles, Elise ((((((((Elise))))))))))) I was afraid of something like this.  Not because of the meds, but because of the situational stuff going on in your life.  A med change in the middle of all that just complicates matters. I can’t answer the med questions either, but I know there are people here who can.  Personally, I wouldn’t let weight gain even be a factor about whether to take a med or not.  I mean, we’re not talking about 30 pounds or anything.  Just a few, and you can up your excersize and work them off, so don’t let that even be a factor in what you decide on doing about your meds. Oh, I do hope you can make your appointment!  Tell your daughter it’s REAL important that you go.  You really need to talk to your pdoc about the symptoms you are having.  And also, I will say this.  When we found out my mother was dying I talked to my pdoc about whether we should do a med change or something to help me through it.  He was an older man. I liked him so much and he was so wise.  He just kind of looked at me and said "There’s no magic pill for situations like this." — Realize that you are under pressure from all sides of you, and factor that into the equation too.  It’s more than just the meds.  You have so much on your plate that it’s no wonder you’re melting down.  Even someone without anxiety issues would be doing the same thing. (((((((((((Elise))))))))))  you are always there for all of us.  I hope we can be there for you.  I hope some others here can give you advice about the meds, and you know, my inbox is always open to you if you need to vent. Love, Sally — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

<Gently snipped ::I am also taking Clonazepam 1mg twice daily and Inderal, as needed. ::Many different issues going on in my life right now – good things, stressful ::things and issues I have no control over. ::Any insight from anyone on Wellbutrin XL?  Or any thoughts from anyone…  I ::do have a doctor’s appointment scheduled for Tuesday if my daughter is able ::to take me since this is out of my safe driving zone. Dear Elise, I`m sorry you are feeling so out of sorts with yourself. You are one of the most beautiful people I know and it saddens me to think you feel so badly about yourself. What kind of doctor would you be seeing on Tuesday? I hope it is a psychiatrist. He would be the best person to determine what may be going on. It doesn`t appear to be an issue with wellbutrin being this started before you even started it. I`m wondering if you are depressed. With depression comes stinkin thinkin and low sense of self-worth. Another option would be to see a therapist every week for a few months. I think it would do you a lot of good to explore these thoughts and emotions you are having. Keep talking to us, we`ll do our best to help and support you. (((((Elise))))) Jackie ~*~When they discover the center of the universe, a lot of people will be disappointed to discover they are not it~*~           ~~ Bernard Bailey — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi, Tono, Thank you for your kind words.  I have also been on Clonazepam for a few years now so don’t think that’s my problem.  It’s odd how much depression material I came cross today and not even looking for it.  I will talk with the phy. asst. on Tuesday and discuss some things with her. smiles, Elise

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, all, Well I feel like melting down is exactly what I am doing now.  I feel ugly about my inner self and the world around me.  I have nothing nice to say to anyone directly in my life and actually think of ugly things I could say to them.  Maybe I’ve suppressed my feelings for so long that everything is coming to a head. I did make the med change to Wellbutrin XL, finally, about the beginning of October.  Prior to that I was attempting to wean off the Zoloft and was down to such a minute amount and starting to feel this ugliness inside me and extremely short tempered.  This is when I went onto the Wellbutrin XL 150 mgs and started to feel a bit better.  I increased it again last week by 75 mgs.  The short temperedness has gone away. The only plus side is that I lost some weight about 3 weeks into the process of weaning off the Zoloft and going onto the Wellbutrin XL.  I am aware that I am finally experiencing some feelings which has been an issue for me for years due to them being blunted.  I feel like I’m in a catch 22 right now. Go back on a different AD then possibly weight goes on with that and my feelings get blunted or stay on the Wellbutrin XL and either I continue to feel this ugliness or maybe given time things will change since the short-temperedness did go away. I am also taking Clonazepam 1mg twice daily and Inderal, as needed. Many different issues going on in my life right now – good things, stressful things and issues I have no control over. Any insight from anyone on Wellbutrin XL?  Or any thoughts from anyone…  I do have a doctor’s appointment scheduled for Tuesday if my daughter is able to take me since this is out of my safe driving zone. smiles, Elise Hi Elise, I wish so much that I could help in some way, but I don’t know anything about Zoloft or Wellbutrin.  Clonazepam is a different story, I’ve been on it for ? 4 or 5 years?  I completely lost track of when I started it.   Anyway, if you are just starting it, that can blunt your emotions a bit, but that goes away fairly fast.  I’m on 6mg’s/day. I just want to say that you have always been a great regular here and over the years you have helped me personally and on the group, and I’m very thankful you are a part of this great group of people. (((((Elise))))) Tono — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, all, Well I feel like melting down is exactly what I am doing now.  I feel ugly about my inner self and the world around me.  I have nothing nice to say to anyone directly in my life and actually think of ugly things I could say to them.  Maybe I’ve suppressed my feelings for so long that everything is coming to a head. I did make the med change to Wellbutrin XL, finally, about the beginning of October.  Prior to that I was attempting to wean off the Zoloft and was down to such a minute amount and starting to feel this ugliness inside me and extremely short tempered.  This is when I went onto the Wellbutrin XL 150 mgs and started to feel a bit better.  I increased it again last week by 75 mgs.  The short temperedness has gone away. The only plus side is that I lost some weight about 3 weeks into the process of weaning off the Zoloft and going onto the Wellbutrin XL.  I am aware that I am finally experiencing some feelings which has been an issue for me for years due to them being blunted.  I feel like I’m in a catch 22 right now. Go back on a different AD then possibly weight goes on with that and my feelings get blunted or stay on the Wellbutrin XL and either I continue to feel this ugliness or maybe given time things will change since the short-temperedness did go away. I am also taking Clonazepam 1mg twice daily and Inderal, as needed. Many different issues going on in my life right now – good things, stressful things and issues I have no control over. Any insight from anyone on Wellbutrin XL?  Or any thoughts from anyone…  I do have a doctor’s appointment scheduled for Tuesday if my daughter is able to take me since this is out of my safe driving zone. smiles, Elise

Hi Elise, I wish so much that I could help in some way, but I don’t know anything about Zoloft or Wellbutrin.  Clonazepam is a different story, I’ve been on it for ? 4 or 5 years?  I completely lost track of when I started it.   Anyway, if you are just starting it, that can blunt your emotions a bit, but that goes away fairly fast.  I’m on 6mg’s/day. I just want to say that you have always been a great regular here and over the years you have helped me personally and on the group, and I’m very thankful you are a part of this great group of people. (((((Elise))))) Tono — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi, all, Well I feel like melting down is exactly what I am doing now.  I feel ugly about my inner self and the world around me.

Those are thoughts (cognitive), not feelings (emotions). Negative thoughts lead to negative feelings. I have had the same thoughts and consequent feelings when I’m under a lot of stress. I have nothing nice to say to anyone directly in my life and actually think of ugly things I could say to them.  Maybe I’ve suppressed my feelings for so long that everything is coming to a head.

Could be. Or maybe you’re under a lot of stress right now which  leads to negative thoughts and feelings about oneself and the world. I did make the med change to Wellbutrin XL, finally, about the beginning of October.  Prior to that I was attempting to wean off the Zoloft and was down to such a minute amount and starting to feel this ugliness inside me and extremely short tempered.

Irritability could be due to Zoloft withdrawal or depression. Or anything that makes one feel uncomfortable. When I’m depressed I get irritable. This is when I went onto the Wellbutrin XL 150 mgs and started to feel a bit better.

Better in what way?  I increased it again last week by 75 mgs.  The short temperedness has gone away. The only plus side is that I lost some weight about 3 weeks into the process of weaning off the Zoloft and going onto the Wellbutrin XL.  I am aware

that I am finally experiencing some feelings which has been an issue for me for years due to them being blunted.

Do you mean blunted by meds? What feelings and emotions have you blunted? I feel like I’m in a catch 22 right now. Go back on a different AD then possibly weight goes on with that and my feelings get blunted or stay on the Wellbutrin XL and either I continue to feel this ugliness or maybe given time things will change since the short-temperedness did go away.

Since you have several factors going on in your life right now, it’s difficult to speculate how changing just one (such as a med change) would effect how you think and feel. What do you think has led to your irritablility? I am also taking Clonazepam 1mg twice daily and Inderal, as needed. Many different issues going on in my life right now – good things, stressful things and issues I have no control over.

What don’t you have control over? (((Elise))), you have a lot of stresses occuring in your life right now. Both going on Wellbuitrin, and coming off Zoloft can be stressful. Plus your daughter’s shower and wedding are stresses. They need alot of planning. If anyone has enough stress on them, they can feel uncomfortable and irritable, and the whole world can start looking ugly. Below are a list of negative "core beliefs". They may be helpful to you. Maybe they apply to you at this time. Chip Core Beliefs Core beliefs are one’s most central ideas about the self. Aaron Beck theorizes that negative core beliefs fall into two broad categories (see below): those associated with helplessness and those associated with unlovability. Some patients have core beliefs that fall in one category; others have core beliefs in both categories. These core beliefs develop in childhood as the child interacts with significant others and encounters a series of situations. For most of their lives most people may maintain relatively positive core beliefs. Negative core beliefs may surface only during times of psychological distress. Negative core beliefs are usually global, overgeneralized and absolute. When a core belief is activated, the patient is easily able to process information that supports it, but often fails to recognize or distorts information that is contrary to it. The cognitive therapist attempts to identify and modify negative core beliefs. Helpless core beliefs: I am helpless I am powerless I am out of control I am weak I am vulnerable I am needy I am trapped I am inadequate I am ineffective I am incompetent I am a failure I am disrespected Unlovable core beliefs: I am unlovable I am unlikable I am undesirable I am unattractive I am unwanted I am uncared for I am bad I am unworthy I am different I am bound to be rejected I am bound to be abandoned I am bound to be alone — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi, all, Well I feel like melting down is exactly what I am doing now.  I feel ugly about my inner self and the world around me.  I have nothing nice to say to anyone directly in my life and actually think of ugly things I could say to them.  Maybe I’ve suppressed my feelings for so long that everything is coming to a head. I did make the med change to Wellbutrin XL, finally, about the beginning of October.  Prior to that I was attempting to wean off the Zoloft and was down to such a minute amount and starting to feel this ugliness inside me and extremely short tempered.  This is when I went onto the Wellbutrin XL 150 mgs and started to feel a bit better.  I increased it again last week by 75 mgs.  The short temperedness has gone away. The only plus side is that I lost some weight about 3 weeks into the process of weaning off the Zoloft and going onto the Wellbutrin XL.  I am aware that I am finally experiencing some feelings which has been an issue for me for years due to them being blunted.  I feel like I’m in a catch 22 right now. Go back on a different AD then possibly weight goes on with that and my feelings get blunted or stay on the Wellbutrin XL and either I continue to feel this ugliness or maybe given time things will change since the short-temperedness did go away. I am also taking Clonazepam 1mg twice daily and Inderal, as needed. Many different issues going on in my life right now – good things, stressful things and issues I have no control over. Any insight from anyone on Wellbutrin XL?  Or any thoughts from anyone…  I do have a doctor’s appointment scheduled for Tuesday if my daughter is able to take me since this is out of my safe driving zone. smiles, Elise — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Question:

Hi Y’all!  Doing better today.  Been hungry!  That’s a good sign.  It means my PMS is stronger than my withdrawal symptoms!  I’m not suprised. Vivid dreams I can’t remember last night. Slept all the way through.  There’s really not much to report.  I was bouncing off the walls yesterday.  Kava helped, as usual.  So did yoga and an after dinner walk in the neighborhood. I have shin-splints.  Interestingly, I wasn’t tired last night until later than usual, (11:00), but when I was it hit all at once.  Nothing gradual or subtle about it. Life without meds may actually be possible for me.  It’s looking good so far.  After 15 years of struggle with anxiety, panic, and an assortment of other secondary disorders there may actually be some hope for a life!  I hope someone out there reads this and catches some hope for themselves. Be Well! PW

Response:

I’ve been following this thread and I’m glad to hear you’re doing well without meds. I orginally didn’t respond since I was never on Zoloft nor do I have PMS I’m curious. Was it easier to wean on or off Zoloft? I had a hell of a time weaning onto Paxil CR and after 3 months of it not working, I decided to forget about it but had no problems stopping it. BTW How’s Kava effectiveness? Do you take it as needed or daily? Oh and don’t be afraid to throw some of that hope my way Kevin… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Y’all!  Doing better today.  Been hungry!  That’s a good sign.  It means my PMS is stronger than my withdrawal symptoms!  I’m not suprised. Vivid dreams I can’t remember last night. Slept all the way through.  There’s really not much to report.  I was bouncing off the walls yesterday.  Kava helped, as usual.  So did yoga and an after dinner walk in the neighborhood. I have shin-splints.  Interestingly, I wasn’t tired last night until later than usual, (11:00), but when I was it hit all at once.  Nothing gradual or subtle about it. Life without meds may actually be possible for me.  It’s looking good so far.  After 15 years of struggle with anxiety, panic, and an assortment of other secondary disorders there may actually be some hope for a life!  I hope someone out there reads this and catches some hope for themselves. Be Well! PW

Response:

It’s definately easier coming on Zoloft than off, for me.  I was lethargic at first, but after getting up to 50mg it only took about a week to get level. The total time was about 3 weeks.  Then I had a LOT of energy.  Bear in mind that I was extremely depressed by the time I started on Zoloft so in contract I felt quite energetic.  The reality was that I was feeling level. Coming off is harder. I feel wired for about 3 days, then I level out for about a week, then I cut the dosage by 50% and start all over again.  Paxil was hell for me.  I was a vegetable on it, crying all the time – very depressed.  Kava works really well for me during those few days when i’m wired, coming off. It takes some of the edge off, though just enough that I don’t feel like being mean to anyone or running over slow people in my car! My anxiety is scary.  I get impatient, critical, irritable, consescending and generally unpleasant to be around at all before I become downright verbally violent.  I called someone a bitch on the phone yesterday.  True, she was being incompetent at her job, but it didn’t help the situation to vent like that.  I take the kava as needed.  I usually need it around lunchtime.  I get edgy when I get hungry.  Then again in the evenings when I want to wind down and relax if I feel too keyed up to sit still.  I haven’t needed it much lately.  I anticipate not needing it all in a month. PW

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve been following this thread and I’m glad to hear you’re doing well without meds. I orginally didn’t respond since I was never on Zoloft nor do I have PMS I’m curious. Was it easier to wean on or off Zoloft? I had a hell of a time weaning onto Paxil CR and after 3 months of it not working, I decided to forget about it but had no problems stopping it. BTW How’s Kava effectiveness? Do you take it as needed or daily? Oh and don’t be afraid to throw some of that hope my way Kevin… Hi Y’all!  Doing better today.  Been hungry!  That’s a good sign.  It means my PMS is stronger than my withdrawal symptoms!  I’m not suprised. Vivid dreams I can’t remember last night. Slept all the way through.  There’s really not much to report.  I was bouncing off the walls yesterday. Kava helped, as usual.  So did yoga and an after dinner walk in the neighborhood. I have shin-splints.  Interestingly, I wasn’t tired last night until later than usual, (11:00), but when I was it hit all at once.  Nothing gradual or subtle about it. Life without meds may actually be possible for me.  It’s looking good so far.  After 15 years of struggle with anxiety, panic, and an assortment of other secondary disorders there may actually be some hope for a life!  I hope someone out there reads this and catches some hope for themselves. Be Well! PW

Response:

Thanks for your input. I’ve researched and read about the liver damage.   Where do you recommend buying the best Kava? How much do yo take each day? DiA

Response:

Thanks for your input. I’ve researched and read about the liver damage.   Where do you recommend buying the best Kava? How much do yo take each day? DiA

DiA, I’ve been using several labels of an extract called Kaviar(TM). You can read background info on their product(s) at http://www.cosmopolitantrading.com/ I’ve used their soft gels; they’re quite good, but take a bit longer to get into your system because it’s a thick paste inside of a softgel (available from Source Naturals as Kava Gold softgels – http://www.vitacost.com/Store/products/Products.cfm?SubCategoryID=313… own1=product I have a slight preference for their powdered version because of the bioabsorption issue; I get it from http://www.health-pages.com/kk/index.html PW is using one of the Gaia Herbs products (not sure if it’s the tincture or the phyto-capsules).  I’ve not tried them, but they have an excellent reputation, and the liquid versions do work much faster. My dosage level flucuates because I supplement the capsules with "kava tonics" I make from raw powder; I probably average around 700 mg/day.  The medical impllications of prolonged daily use at that level is very uncertain. Start with one or two capsules and evaluate your response.  Next time increase the dosage by another capsule until you get what feels like a good response. Take kava on an empty stomach, no matter what the label says, and wait awhile (about an hour, but it varies by individual, before you eat) If you get to 300mg without any significant effect, then kava may not work for you, but give it 3-4 days at a consistent dosage level before you drop it; sometimes it takes a while for the full effect to settle in. Hope it works for you, but even if not, I’d be interested in hearing your opinion. Figaro

Response:

Thanks for the info..I do have more anxiety and no depression anymore and thats why I think the Kava may be better.. It’s worth a try, anyway:) DiA

Response:

I coud use some of that hope, too,PW, so send some my way!   Have been taking St, John’s but will try the Kava after reading about it,. DiA

St. John’s Wort is an anti-depressant.  Kava-kava is (primarily) an anti-anxiety drug; it won’t help mood unless you have anxiety-driven depression.  If you take both, the SJW will interfere with the effectiveness of the kava. You *must* research kava extensively before you take it on a regular basis. There are unresolved health issues involving possible liver damage. Make an informed decision. Although I’m a regular kava user I try not to advocate nor discourage its use by anyone else.  That statement notwithstanding, my personal opinion is that kava has the potential to be an outstanding alternative to the benzodiazepenes, but the current kava products on the market varying in effectiveness from useless to excellent, so you may need to try several before finding one that works for you.

Response:

I coud use some of that hope, too,PW, so send some my way!   Have been taking St, John’s but will try the Kava after reading about it,. DiA

Response:

DiA I have read that St. John’s wort is good for depression.  It can be a bit stimulating.  I skirt away from it because by depression is secondary to my anxiety.  I am not really qualified to make any suggestions, though I can offer some of my own prsonal experience.  St. John’s Wort never helped me at all.  It never hurt me either.  Though it can aggravate some ppls’ anxiety – so I’ve read. PW

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I coud use some of that hope, too,PW, so send some my way!   Have been taking St, John’s but will try the Kava after reading about it,. DiA

Response:

It’s definately easier coming on Zoloft than off, for me.  I was lethargic at first, but after getting up to 50mg it only took about a week to get level. The total time was about 3 weeks.  Then I had a LOT of energy. Bear in mind that I was extremely depressed by the time I started on Zoloft so in contract I felt quite energetic.  The reality was that I was feeling

level. I had the same reaction to Paxil but I was taking it for anxiety and was on a mania streak the entire 3 months I was on it. Thanfully I had Xanax to calm me down. Coming off is harder. I feel wired for about 3 days, then I level out for about a week, then I cut the dosage by 50% and start all over again. Paxil was hell for me.  I was a vegetable on it, crying all the time – very depressed.  Kava works really well for me during those few days when i’m wired, coming off. It takes some of the edge off, though just enough that I don’t feel like being mean to anyone or running over slow people in my car! My anxiety is scary.  I get impatient, critical, irritable, consescending and generally unpleasant to be around at all before I become downright verbally violent.

We have something in common but my anger has nothing to do my anxiety. Still trying to figure out what it is. I have these rage relapses once on a while and cannot control it right in the middle of it. But they usually only last one day now. I was in this state of mind for years in the past. Suicidal up the ying yang. I called someone a bitch on the phone yesterday.  True, she was being incompetent at her job, but it didn’t help the situation to vent like that.  I take the kava as needed.  I usually need it around lunchtime.  I get edgy when I get hungry.

Remind me to never get on your bad side : ) Then again in the evenings when I want to wind down and relax if I feel too keyed up to sit still.  I haven’t needed it much lately.  I anticipate not needing it all in a month.

Good, I’m glad you’re succesfully weaning off of it…

Thanks! Have a good one Ms. PW, Kevin…

Response:

Question:

SMELL THE FART!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yep, he is eating chili, while spinning in circles. Kind of like a dog chasing its tail.

Response:

Yep, he is eating chili, while spinning in circles. Kind of like a dog chasing its tail.

| | | Oh jesus H christ… | | | What they need is a pill to cure farting and burping… | | |

| | WASHINGTON (Reuters Health) – The US Food and Drug Administration | (news – web sites) has given the drug company Pfizer Inc. the go ahead | to market its antidepressant Zoloft (sertraline) for the treatment of | premenstrual dysphoric disorder (PMDD), a severe form of premenstrual | syndrome, the company confirmed on Friday. | | | Following an FDA announcement of the approval, a Pfizer spokeswoman | told Reuters Health that a corporate statement would be made on | Monday, but that the firm would not provide details before then. | | The FDA said it had approved two supplementary new drug applications | for Zoloft as a PMDD treatment: one for daily dosing and one for use | only during the luteal phase of the menstrual cycle. | | Zoloft is already indicated for depression, panic disorder, | obsessive-compulsive disorder and posttraumatic stress disorder. | | The FDA noted that the first drug to be approved to treat PMDD was Eli | Lilly’s Sarafem (fluoxetine), which contains the same active | ingredient as the company’s antidepressant Prozac. That approval was | issued in July 2000. | | SkyePharma, which has developed a controlled-release version of | GlaxoSmithKline’s antidepressant Paxil (paroxetine), has said that it | hopes to see that drug approved for PMDD this year and launched for | the indication in 2003. | | | | | — | "Caution, the surgeon general has found that psychiatric | treatements cause poverty and mental illness."

Response:

Question:

Hello Jeff, Seroxat and Paxil are two names for the same drug. The name Seroxat is used in the UK and Paxil, I believe, is what it’s called in the US. Sorry about the confusion. Before the cross posters arrived, quite suddenly it appeared, this was a great group. I started posting on 13th of December last and found that the group helped me greatly over the overwhelmingly miserable period during Christmas and the New Year. What I’m leading up to is that reading the post here and better still posting messages is highly therapeutic and is what I would recommend that you do but sadly the group no longer functions the way it did. Cormac’s suggestion is a good one if you can find a support group. I’m certain there are many such groups in the US but a lot depends on the nature of the support group and the particular way you interact with such a group. We are all different and I can go to a support group here in Dublin but I’m not at all happy with the way it’s run. The fella who set up the group effectively controls the group and I object strongly to this but am afraid to say anything to the psychologist in the hospital where the support group is based about the situation as I see it. The fella who runs the support group and the psychologist are great friends and if I said anything I can almost hear the psychologist ask me now why do I feel this way and I’m sure I would get nowhere and end up banging my head off the wall. Be wary in support groups. You will meet all types and I know from personal experience you may meet folks there who will use you if the conditions are right for that. That is exactly what happened to me. A long time member of the group homed in on me and ended up bullying me in a most insidious way. So, Jeff, beware in the support group setting. As the student who was treating me using CBT told me as she told me I could join the support I would meet all types in the support group. I thought what a strange thing to say. Are we not all on each other’s side I asked myself. The frightening answer is no. Peter Nolan. To email please remove x from xpeter…@gofree.indigo.ie

Response:

Hello Jeff, I’m attempting to send the message below a second time. It never made it first time round. — Peter Nolan. To email please remove x from xpeter…@gofree.indigo.ie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Hello Jeff, Seroxat and Paxil are two names for the same drug. The name Seroxat is

used

in the UK and Paxil, I believe, is what it’s called in the US. Sorry about the confusion. Before the cross posters arrived, quite suddenly it appeared, this was a great group. I started posting on 13th of December last and found that the group helped me greatly over the overwhelmingly miserable period during Christmas and the New Year. What I’m leading up to is that reading the

post

here and better still posting messages is highly therapeutic and is what I would recommend that you do but sadly the group no longer functions the

way

it did. Cormac’s suggestion is a good one if you can find a support group. I’m certain there are many such groups in the US but a lot depends on the

nature

of the support group and the particular way you interact with such a

group.

We are all different and I can go to a support group here in Dublin but

I’m

not at all happy with the way it’s run. The fella who set up the group effectively controls the group and I object strongly to this but am afraid to say anything to the psychologist in the hospital where the support

group

is based about the situation as I see it. The fella who runs the support group and the psychologist are great friends and if I said anything I can almost hear the psychologist ask me now why do I feel this way and I’m

sure

I would get nowhere and end up banging my head off the wall. Be wary in support groups. You will meet all types and I know from

personal

experience you may meet folks there who will use you if the conditions are right for that. That is exactly what happened to me. A long time member of the group homed in on me and ended up bullying me in a most insidious way. So, Jeff, beware in the support group setting. As the student who was treating me using CBT told me as she told me I could join the support I would meet all types in the support group. I thought what a strange thing

to

say. Are we not all on each other’s side I asked myself. The frightening answer is no. Peter Nolan. To email please remove x from xpeter…@gofree.indigo.ie

Response:

Check the website  www.socialanxietyinstitute.org I find it extremly helpful. Consider joining a support group – mentioned in the web site. Jeff <jeff9…@hotmail.com

wrote in message

news:7eb49709.0204152150.287da20e@posting.google.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

I’m not sure anyone will see this or respond, but at minimum this posting will let me organize my thoughts and try to explain my situation. I’m male, 31 years old, and have lived with debilitating social anxiety for as long as I can remember, long before there were slick TV commercials for marginally effective pharmaceuticals to treat the disorder. I saw my first psychiatrist when I was 18, who told me I was a nice guy and would have a great life, just stop worrying so much.  By the time I was 24 I finally worked up the courage to talk to a doctor about my depression and social anxiety, and went through the usual suspects with less than impressive results: Zoloft, Serzone, Effexor, Moclobemide.  Then I contracted mono (great, what were the chances of that for a 27 year old virgin).  That completely knocked me out for several months.  Through my doctor, I finally got a referral to a good psychiatrist who diagnosed me with social anxiety disorder, generalized anxiety disorder and depression.  He put me on Parnate and Klonopin, and I was pleasantly surprised, because I actually felt better than I’d ever felt in my entire life.  I looked forward to my day… the pounding heart and sweaty palms went away, I didn’t think everyone was staring at me, and I could go out to social functions without getting incredibly nervous. The dietary restrictions for Parnate were a minor inconvenience. So were the sleep disturbances/minor insomnia.  My life became almost normal.  I went out with friends.  I know, I know, you aren’t supposed to feel better just from meds… it takes lots of CBT and hard work.  My experience, even with good therapists says that is not true.  I’ve read the books, and understand all the distortions and negative thought patterns that pass through my mind.  But being aware of them, and being able to get them under control are two separate things.  I just have this brain chemistry that kicks in so strongly that the power of thought is not enough. One year later, after relocating to the US, I mentioned the insomnia to my doctor and she said it was caused by depression, and tripled the dose of Parnate, and also suggested ECT, which I declined.  I didn’t sleep properly for days, and got extremely sick with a bacterial infection, probably because I was so tired and my immune system went on a vacation.  It scared me so much that I took myself off Parnate and Klonopin (tapered) without consulting my doctor, who I no longer trusted. This was the worst decision of my life (and I’ve made a lot of bad decisions).  After a few weeks, I quickly realized my error after I started returning to my old ways of hiding out in my apartment avoiding everyone.  Since then, I’ve been dragged through unsuccessful courses of Prozac, Effexor (yuck) and Wellbutrin (double yuck).  I can tolerate side effects, but generally expect to feel better rather than worse.  That all ended about two years ago, when I gave up on meds and doctors who have a kneejerk reaction of try Paxil… try Effexor… or whatever drug-du-jour is being peddled. So I’ve put myself in a terrible position.  The only thing that ever worked for me was a MAOI, and nobody wants to prescribe that.  Or a scheduled drug like Klonopin.  Probably now I’m profiled as exhibiting drug-seeking behavior.  But that seems odd since I have old unused prescriptions for both of the above sitting in the back of my medicine cabinet, as well as random assortments of various drugs sufficient to kill a horse. So, two years of being med-free, practicing meditation daily, and lots of aerobic exercise have not helped, and I am a complete isolated hopeless nervous mess.  When I went to my doctor last week for a sinus infection, I mentioned that I used to be on Parnate, and she said she couldn’t believe anyone prescribed that anymore, and proceeded to explain how great SSRIs are.  I just shut up, went home and took my antibiotics. I don’t know what to do.  Money is not an issue.  I just want to somehow get out of this mess.  I don’t look forward to anything… I can barely go out to buy groceries.  It really hurts me at work.  I may skip an old friend’s wedding because I don’t think I can handle it.  Not sure what to do.  I think good psychiatrists are hard to find- I can’t imagine anyone wanting to take on a case like mine. It seems like there is really no way out of this.  I’m just so tired of life being a constant struggle with getting nervous talking to anyone… I’m getting way too old for this. I’m not suicidal, but wouldn’t be terribly upset if I were run over by a truck tomorrow.  Yes, touching, I know. If you’ve made it this far, I apologize for my rambling. If you can think of any way to get out of this mess, let me know.  I can’t even think of a first step that isn’t destined for failure. Jeff psychiatrist I feel trapped in my apartment now and need help, but can’t figure out how to proceed.  My last attempt was several

Response:

Thanks Peter, Doug, and kicken for your thoughtful responses. I am going to get in touch with my doctor back in Canada, to see if he can help me out with some sort of letter of introduction. I had been a patient of his for several years, so there’s a good possibility he can help out.  Even the doctor in the US who tripled my dose of Parnate may be able to help out, and at least attest to the fact that I was doing okay.  I’m also going to write/phone local psychiatrists to determine if one of them has experience prescribing Parnate. Failing that, Peter mentioned a Seroxat/Paxil combo that I have not tried before, which sounds like it may be worth a try, though I am skeptical because of lack of success with anything other than a MAOI. The worst part is that the disease itself is a real hindrance to finding treatment, because my behavior is just so avoidant. Also, I always feel that it’s not taken seriously, like any of the more popular/trendy psychological disorders.  After all, I’m no threat to anyone, and I’m not experiencing any specific crisis.  At least now I have some concrete ideas on how to proceed – thanks all for the ideas on how to get out of this rut.   Jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -gd…@aug.com (Doug) wrote in message <news:3cbd5389.2725248@news.aug.com

… Jeff, At this point, it sounds like a plan would be to get back on the Parnate and Klonopin which you said you gave up on.  What are the possibilities of writing the doctor again who originally prescribed the Parnate and the Klonopin?  I believe s/he’s in another country now? so this may be impossible.  If you could and sent your posted letter with your cover letter, you might have a fairly good chance of at least getting a letter of introduction for another doctor.  This may be impractical, but what about trying to see the U.S. doctor who tripled the Parnate dose.  I mean there are at least 2 doctors who weren’t averse to prescribing Parnate and Klonopin for you.   The 2nd doctor could be a definite maybe.  Even if you can’t see this doctor because of distance, could you write a letter to her explaining what you’re going thru and request her to write a letter of introduction "To Whom It May Concern" (some unknown doctor as yet) that explains what you’ve tried, what worked and what her recommendation is. I did this when I relocated to another state in the U.S. several months ago and the introductory letter did help.  I’ve been able to continue taking the same meds, but I’m under a little tighter control right now than I was previously.  That could be changed by seeking out a new shrink or by possibly asking my new family GP if he’d be willing to take over the prescriptions. If none of the above is practical, you can write your own letter of introduction, using most, if not all of what you wrote in this post and make an appt. with a new psychiatrist.  Your post is very explicit so I’d include it too.  Good luck. Doug

Response:

Hi Jeff, I’m also 31 and have social phobia and depression probably my whole life. I’ve been on almost every med and combo and other treatments and Parnate is the only one to give some relief also. I do get frustrated at times about some side-effects and that it might not be working enough, then I go off and see how much worse I get and go back on. I would try finding a Dr. in your area that has experience prescribing MAOI’s. It’s rule of thumb to go back to what has helped in the past. I hope you find a good Dr. willing to give it to you and hope you feel better. I’ve been on and off of Parnate for almost a decade. I hope to get better to all the time. Take care B jeff9…@hotmail.com (Jeff) wrote in message

<news:7eb49709.0204152150.287da20e@posting.google.com

…

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

I’m not sure anyone will see this or respond, but at minimum this posting will let me organize my thoughts and try to explain my situation. I’m male, 31 years old, and have lived with debilitating social anxiety for as long as I can remember, long before there were slick TV commercials for marginally effective pharmaceuticals to treat the disorder. I saw my first psychiatrist when I was 18, who told me I was a nice guy and would have a great life, just stop worrying so much.  By the time I was 24 I finally worked up the courage to talk to a doctor about my depression and social anxiety, and went through the usual suspects with less than impressive results: Zoloft, Serzone, Effexor, Moclobemide.  Then I contracted mono (great, what were the chances of that for a 27 year old virgin).  That completely knocked me out for several months.  Through my doctor, I finally got a referral to a good psychiatrist who diagnosed me with social anxiety disorder, generalized anxiety disorder and depression.  He put me on Parnate and Klonopin, and I was pleasantly surprised, because I actually felt better than I’d ever felt in my entire life.  I looked forward to my day… the pounding heart and sweaty palms went away, I didn’t think everyone was staring at me, and I could go out to social functions without getting incredibly nervous. The dietary restrictions for Parnate were a minor inconvenience. So were the sleep disturbances/minor insomnia.  My life became almost normal.  I went out with friends.  I know, I know, you aren’t supposed to feel better just from meds… it takes lots of CBT and hard work.  My experience, even with good therapists says that is not true.  I’ve read the books, and understand all the distortions and negative thought patterns that pass through my mind.  But being aware of them, and being able to get them under control are two separate things.  I just have this brain chemistry that kicks in so strongly that the power of thought is not enough. One year later, after relocating to the US, I mentioned the insomnia to my doctor and she said it was caused by depression, and tripled the dose of Parnate, and also suggested ECT, which I declined.  I didn’t sleep properly for days, and got extremely sick with a bacterial infection, probably because I was so tired and my immune system went on a vacation.  It scared me so much that I took myself off Parnate and Klonopin (tapered) without consulting my doctor, who I no longer trusted. This was the worst decision of my life (and I’ve made a lot of bad decisions).  After a few weeks, I quickly realized my error after I started returning to my old ways of hiding out in my apartment avoiding everyone.  Since then, I’ve been dragged through unsuccessful courses of Prozac, Effexor (yuck) and Wellbutrin (double yuck).  I can tolerate side effects, but generally expect to feel better rather than worse.  That all ended about two years ago, when I gave up on meds and doctors who have a kneejerk reaction of try Paxil… try Effexor… or whatever drug-du-jour is being peddled. So I’ve put myself in a terrible position.  The only thing that ever worked for me was a MAOI, and nobody wants to prescribe that.  Or a scheduled drug like Klonopin.  Probably now I’m profiled as exhibiting drug-seeking behavior.  But that seems odd since I have old unused prescriptions for both of the above sitting in the back of my medicine cabinet, as well as random assortments of various drugs sufficient to kill a horse. So, two years of being med-free, practicing meditation daily, and lots of aerobic exercise have not helped, and I am a complete isolated hopeless nervous mess.  When I went to my doctor last week for a sinus infection, I mentioned that I used to be on Parnate, and she said she couldn’t believe anyone prescribed that anymore, and proceeded to explain how great SSRIs are.  I just shut up, went home and took my antibiotics. I don’t know what to do.  Money is not an issue.  I just want to somehow get out of this mess.  I don’t look forward to anything… I can barely go out to buy groceries.  It really hurts me at work.  I may skip an old friend’s wedding because I don’t think I can handle it.  Not sure what to do.  I think good psychiatrists are hard to find- I can’t imagine anyone wanting to take on a case like mine. It seems like there is really no way out of this.  I’m just so tired of life being a constant struggle with getting nervous talking to anyone… I’m getting way too old for this. I’m not suicidal, but wouldn’t be terribly upset if I were run over by a truck tomorrow.  Yes, touching, I know. If you’ve made it this far, I apologize for my rambling. If you can think of any way to get out of this mess, let me know.  I can’t even think of a first step that isn’t destined for failure. Jeff psychiatrist I feel trapped in my apartment now and need help, but can’t figure out how to proceed.  My last attempt was several

Response:

Jeff, At this point, it sounds like a plan would be to get back on the Parnate and Klonopin which you said you gave up on.  What are the possibilities of writing the doctor again who originally prescribed the Parnate and the Klonopin?  I believe s/he’s in another country now? so this may be impossible.  If you could and sent your posted letter with your cover letter, you might have a fairly good chance of at least getting a letter of introduction for another doctor.  This may be impractical, but what about trying to see the U.S. doctor who tripled the Parnate dose.  I mean there are at least 2 doctors who weren’t averse to prescribing Parnate and Klonopin for you.   The 2nd doctor could be a definite maybe.  Even if you can’t see this doctor because of distance, could you write a letter to her explaining what you’re going thru and request her to write a letter of introduction "To Whom It May Concern" (some unknown doctor as yet) that explains what you’ve tried, what worked and what her recommendation is. I did this when I relocated to another state in the U.S. several months ago and the introductory letter did help.  I’ve been able to continue taking the same meds, but I’m under a little tighter control right now than I was previously.  That could be changed by seeking out a new shrink or by possibly asking my new family GP if he’d be willing to take over the prescriptions. If none of the above is practical, you can write your own letter of introduction, using most, if not all of what you wrote in this post and make an appt. with a new psychiatrist.  Your post is very explicit so I’d include it too.  Good luck. Doug On 15 Apr 2002 22:50:24 -0700, jeff9…@hotmail.com (Jeff) wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

I’m not sure anyone will see this or respond, but at minimum this posting will let me organize my thoughts and try to explain my situation. I’m male, 31 years old, and have lived with debilitating social anxiety for as long as I can remember, long before there were slick TV commercials for marginally effective pharmaceuticals to treat the disorder. I saw my first psychiatrist when I was 18, who told me I was a nice guy and would have a great life, just stop worrying so much.  By the time I was 24 I finally worked up the courage to talk to a doctor about my depression and social anxiety, and went through the usual suspects with less than impressive results: Zoloft, Serzone, Effexor, Moclobemide.  Then I contracted mono (great, what were the chances of that for a 27 year old virgin).  That completely knocked me out for several months.  Through my doctor, I finally got a referral to a good psychiatrist who diagnosed me with social anxiety disorder, generalized anxiety disorder and depression.  He put me on Parnate and Klonopin, and I was pleasantly surprised, because I actually felt better than I’d ever felt in my entire life.  I looked forward to my day… the pounding heart and sweaty palms went away, I didn’t think everyone was staring at me, and I could go out to social functions without getting incredibly nervous. The dietary restrictions for Parnate were a minor inconvenience. So were the sleep disturbances/minor insomnia.  My life became almost normal.  I went out with friends.  I know, I know, you aren’t supposed to feel better just from meds… it takes lots of CBT and hard work.  My experience, even with good therapists says that is not true.  I’ve read the books, and understand all the distortions and negative thought patterns that pass through my mind.  But being aware of them, and being able to get them under control are two separate things.  I just have this brain chemistry that kicks in so strongly that the power of thought is not enough. One year later, after relocating to the US, I mentioned the insomnia to my doctor and she said it was caused by depression, and tripled the dose of Parnate, and also suggested ECT, which I declined.  I didn’t sleep properly for days, and got extremely sick with a bacterial infection, probably because I was so tired and my immune system went on a vacation.  It scared me so much that I took myself off Parnate and Klonopin (tapered) without consulting my doctor, who I no longer trusted. This was the worst decision of my life (and I’ve made a lot of bad decisions).  After a few weeks, I quickly realized my error after I started returning to my old ways of hiding out in my apartment avoiding everyone.  Since then, I’ve been dragged through unsuccessful courses of Prozac, Effexor (yuck) and Wellbutrin (double yuck).  I can tolerate side effects, but generally expect to feel better rather than worse.  That all ended about two years ago, when I gave up on meds and doctors who have a kneejerk reaction of try Paxil… try Effexor… or whatever drug-du-jour is being peddled. So I’ve put myself in a terrible position.  The only thing that ever worked for me was a MAOI, and nobody wants to prescribe that.  Or a scheduled drug like Klonopin.  Probably now I’m profiled as exhibiting drug-seeking behavior.  But that seems odd since I have old unused prescriptions for both of the above sitting in the back of my medicine cabinet, as well as random assortments of various drugs sufficient to kill a horse. So, two years of being med-free, practicing meditation daily, and lots of aerobic exercise have not helped, and I am a complete isolated hopeless nervous mess.  When I went to my doctor last week for a sinus infection, I mentioned that I used to be on Parnate, and she said she couldn’t believe anyone prescribed that anymore, and proceeded to explain how great SSRIs are.  I just shut up, went home and took my antibiotics. I don’t know what to do.  Money is not an issue.  I just want to somehow get out of this mess.  I don’t look forward to anything… I can barely go out to buy groceries.  It really hurts me at work.  I may skip an old friend’s wedding because I don’t think I can handle it.  Not sure what to do.  I think good psychiatrists are hard to find- I can’t imagine anyone wanting to take on a case like mine. It seems like there is really no way out of this.  I’m just so tired of life being a constant struggle with getting nervous talking to anyone… I’m getting way too old for this. I’m not suicidal, but wouldn’t be terribly upset if I were run over by a truck tomorrow.  Yes, touching, I know. If you’ve made it this far, I apologize for my rambling. If you can think of any way to get out of this mess, let me know.  I can’t even think of a first step that isn’t destined for failure. Jeff psychiatrist I feel trapped in my apartment now and need help, but can’t figure out how to proceed.  My last attempt was several

Response:

I’m not sure anyone will see this or respond, but at minimum this posting will let me organize my thoughts and try to explain my situation. I’m male, 31 years old, and have lived with debilitating social anxiety for as long as I can remember, long before there were slick TV commercials for marginally effective pharmaceuticals to treat the disorder. I saw my first psychiatrist when I was 18, who told me I was a nice guy and would have a great life, just stop worrying so much.  By the time I was 24 I finally worked up the courage to talk to a doctor about my depression and social anxiety, and went through the usual suspects with less than impressive results: Zoloft, Serzone, Effexor, Moclobemide.  Then I contracted mono (great, what were the chances of that for a 27 year old virgin).  That completely knocked me out for several months.  Through my doctor, I finally got a referral to a good psychiatrist who diagnosed me with social anxiety disorder, generalized anxiety disorder and depression.  He put me on Parnate and Klonopin, and I was pleasantly surprised, because I actually felt better than I’d ever felt in my entire life.  I looked forward to my day… the pounding heart and sweaty palms went away, I didn’t think everyone was staring at me, and I could go out to social functions without getting incredibly nervous. The dietary restrictions for Parnate were a minor inconvenience. So were the sleep disturbances/minor insomnia.  My life became almost normal.  I went out with friends.  I know, I know, you aren’t supposed to feel better just from meds… it takes lots of CBT and hard work.  My experience, even with good therapists says that is not true.  I’ve read the books, and understand all the distortions and negative thought patterns that pass through my mind.  But being aware of them, and being able to get them under control are two separate things.  I just have this brain chemistry that kicks in so strongly that the power of thought is not enough. One year later, after relocating to the US, I mentioned the insomnia to my doctor and she said it was caused by depression, and tripled the dose of Parnate, and also suggested ECT, which I declined.  I didn’t sleep properly for days, and got extremely sick with a bacterial infection, probably because I was so tired and my immune system went on a vacation.  It scared me so much that I took myself off Parnate and Klonopin (tapered) without consulting my doctor, who I no longer trusted. This was the worst decision of my life (and I’ve made a lot of bad decisions).  After a few weeks, I quickly realized my error after I started returning to my old ways of hiding out in my apartment avoiding everyone.  Since then, I’ve been dragged through unsuccessful courses of Prozac, Effexor (yuck) and Wellbutrin (double yuck).  I can tolerate side effects, but generally expect to feel better rather than worse.  That all ended about two years ago, when I gave up on meds and doctors who have a kneejerk reaction of try Paxil… try Effexor… or whatever drug-du-jour is being peddled. So I’ve put myself in a terrible position.  The only thing that ever worked for me was a MAOI, and nobody wants to prescribe that.  Or a scheduled drug like Klonopin.  Probably now I’m profiled as exhibiting drug-seeking behavior.  But that seems odd since I have old unused prescriptions for both of the above sitting in the back of my medicine cabinet, as well as random assortments of various drugs sufficient to kill a horse. So, two years of being med-free, practicing meditation daily, and lots of aerobic exercise have not helped, and I am a complete isolated hopeless nervous mess.  When I went to my doctor last week for a sinus infection, I mentioned that I used to be on Parnate, and she said she couldn’t believe anyone prescribed that anymore, and proceeded to explain how great SSRIs are.  I just shut up, went home and took my antibiotics. I don’t know what to do.  Money is not an issue.  I just want to somehow get out of this mess.  I don’t look forward to anything… I can barely go out to buy groceries.  It really hurts me at work.  I may skip an old friend’s wedding because I don’t think I can handle it.  Not sure what to do.  I think good psychiatrists are hard to find- I can’t imagine anyone wanting to take on a case like mine. It seems like there is really no way out of this.  I’m just so tired of life being a constant struggle with getting nervous talking to anyone… I’m getting way too old for this. I’m not suicidal, but wouldn’t be terribly upset if I were run over by a truck tomorrow.  Yes, touching, I know. If you’ve made it this far, I apologize for my rambling. If you can think of any way to get out of this mess, let me know.  I can’t even think of a first step that isn’t destined for failure. Jeff psychiatrist I feel trapped in my apartment now and need help, but can’t figure out how to proceed.  My last attempt was several

Response:

Hello Jeff, I read through your message to the end. I stay away from this group now because of the cross posting. I’m sorry to tell you there are no simple answers for anyone like you or me suffering from Social Phobia. If there were this great newsgroup that has been decimated by cross posters wouldn’t exist. The only thing you can be certain of is that you will continue to suffer unless something great happens to you which it could. For me being able to leave my so called home where I live with my cruel parents would be the breakthrough for me but that can’t happen yet and may never happen. You say money isn’t a problem. In that case as bad as things may seem to be you could be like me living at home with almost no money at all. I’m not being dismissive here. I understand perfectly well that the solution for each of us that would give us the greatest relief is different for all of us and just because you can do what I can’t which is to get away from my parents in no way means that you aren’t suffering as much as I am. My advice to you is to keep trying. You say you are not suicidal and neither am I by the way then you will keep going forever hoping that things will sort themselves out somehow and maybe they will. The root cause of Social Phobia isn’t at all understood and naturally this is a major problem. I think I have a handle on it in my own case and this helps but the psychological battering I take from my parents 24/7 prevents me from making the breakthroughs I could now make if I was out on my own. I’m 48 by the way. Many people in the group(as it used to be) get great relif from drugs like Seroxat/Paxil but there was a post I saw at one point where the subject line was "Paxil is a Monster". So while drugs work for some people and in many cases transform their lives this is not always the case, indeed far from it. Satellites orbit the earth and perform many functions for us like providing us with a great telecommunications system but sadly the drugs available today are so primitive that they can hardly be described as therapeutic although drugs like anti-biotics are first class compounds. The same cannot be said for other drugs as you almost certainly know yourself. All I can say is you will keep going and always looking out for a way out of this savage disorder that annihilates it’s victims. I’m sorry I can’t help you. Have you tried Seroxat/Paxil? Some people in the group swear by it! Drugs would have no effect on me. Peter Nolan. To email please remove x from xpeter…@gofree.indigo.ie

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Howdy group.  I was just diagnosed with cervical dystonia last week. While I have had symptoms for YEARS all of the doctors I went to either could find nothing wrong or told me to "relax"! I am so happy to find this news group on here.  A big relief.  I did find a fantastic Neurologist who believed me and understood exactly what I was talking about.  We are currently trying a variety of oral medications to see if we can control it.  Of course as all of you know, with these types of medications come side-effects.  After being on one medication for 2 days, my husband said, "you don’t need to be on that, it will make you crazy." I don’t think my husband is understanding what dystonia is all about quite yet.  I am looking for some encouragement and am hoping to find it here. Thanks for letting me get a little bit off my mind…I hope I can be of help to other people here as well. Connie

Welcome to A.S.D., Connie!!!   We are so happy to meet you!  I am hoping that some of our ‘dystonia spouses’ will respond to your husband and his concerns.  We have found that significant others in our lifes often have a hard time watching us go through this process.  Connie, please know that all of us here at the n/g are more than eager to lend a listening ear, commiserate, and even laugh occasionally!!!  Please keep in touch!! TTYS, MB

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Howdy group.  I was just diagnosed with cervical dystonia last week. While I have had symptoms for YEARS all of the doctors I went to either could find nothing wrong or told me to "relax"! I am so happy to find this news group on here.  A big relief.  I did find a fantastic Neurologist who believed me and understood exactly what I was talking about.  We are currently trying a variety of oral medications to see if we can control it.  Of course as all of you know, with these types of medications come side-effects.  After being on one medication for 2 days, my husband said, "you don’t need to be on that, it will make you crazy." I don’t think my husband is understanding what dystonia is all about quite yet.  I am looking for some encouragement and am hoping to find it here. Thanks for letting me get a little bit off my mind…I hope I can be of help to other people here as well. Connie

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Howdy group.  I was just diagnosed with cervical dystonia last week. While I have had symptoms for YEARS all of the doctors I went to either could find nothing wrong or told me to "relax"! I am so happy to find this news group on here.  A big relief.  I did find a fantastic Neurologist who believed me and understood exactly what I was talking about.  We are currently trying a variety of oral medications to see if we can control it.  Of course as all of you know, with these types of medications come side-effects.  After being on one medication for 2 days, my husband said, "you don’t need to be on that, it will make you crazy." I don’t think my husband is understanding what dystonia is all about quite yet.  I am looking for some encouragement and am hoping to find it here. Thanks for letting me get a little bit off my mind…I hope I can be of help to other people here as well. Connie Welcome to A.S.D., Connie!!! We are so happy to meet you!  I am hoping that some of our ‘dystonia spouses’ will respond to your husband and his concerns.  We have found that significant others in our lifes often have a hard time watching us go through this process.  Connie, please know that all of us here at the n/g are more than eager to lend a listening ear, commiserate, and even laugh occasionally!!!  Please keep in touch!! TTYS, MB

Ok MB…I have been extremely busy the last month, but i have been lurking:)  so seeing this post I had to reply..Lacking the time to form a newsgroup for us sig/others & spouses i have formed an email chain. anyone who wishs to share in our letters please feel free to email me. It is indeed very hard to not be able to "fix " my wife and make everything ok.  We go through life one day at a time and I try to stay with what I am powerful over and accept what I am powerless to change. Not my words…they come from a 12 step group. but it helps me to cope.it also helps to keep up with the newsgroup and share with you all when I can.  It also makes me feel good to see that this group has helped my wife Aimee where I have not been able to, and I thank you all for that…:) John F

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Howdy group.  I was just diagnosed with cervical dystonia last week. While I have had symptoms for YEARS all of the doctors I went to either could find nothing wrong or told me to "relax"!

Hey I too have been there. After seeing approx. 6 specialists in the varies fields of medicine, I was finally diagonised with ST. I am so happy to find this news group on here.  A big relief.  I did find a fantastic Neurologist who believed me and understood exactly what I was talking about.  We are currently trying a variety of oral medications to see if we can control it.  Of course as all of you know, with these types of medications come side-effects.  After being on one medication for 2 days, my husband said, "you don’t need to be on that, it will make you crazy."

I remember those days indeed. Taking  all kinds of oral medications for approx a 4-6 month timespan to see if any worked, unfortunately in my case none did, but that isn’t too say that you will not have positive results. We share a strange disorder indeed. I don’t think my husband is understanding what dystonia is all about quite yet.  I am looking for some encouragement and am hoping to find it here.

My wife/family/friends also did not, in fact I didn’t, but we all know alot more now : ) Thanks for letting me get a little bit off my mind…I hope I can be of help to other people here as well.

I am sure you will and am happy too meet you. There is an chatline where many people with Dystonia meet every Wednesday night at 9:00pm EST in the channel named #sd. The chatline program is mIRC. If you don’t have it but would like to know where/how to get it, just say so and all the information will be sent too you here. God bless Mark

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The basal ganglia may be like a computer which, if you have dystonia, malfunctions.

Are you trying to tell us that not only do we have dystonia but our brains are running Windows ‘95?! <g (err… nobody from MicroSoft is on here, are they…?) Cathy. —  (—-)                                                     (—-)   "  "         http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~collisoc          "  "

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Howdy group.  I was just diagnosed with cervical dystonia last week. While I have had symptoms for YEARS all of the doctors I went to either could find nothing wrong or told me to "relax"! I am so happy to find this news group on here.  A big relief.  I did find a fantastic Neurologist who believed me and understood exactly what I was talking about.  We are currently trying a variety of oral medications to see if we can control it.  Of course as all of you know, with these types of medications come side-effects. on’t think my husband is understanding what dystonia is all about quite yet.

Dystonia is a disorder of movement.  It is frequently misunderstood  by the public and misdiagnosed by the medical profession because  of its complexity.  It is a syndrome of sustained muscle contractions frequently causing twisting and repetitive movements or abnormal  postures.  The cause of these abnormal postures is thought to be  problems in the area of the brain known as the basal ganglia.  Messages to initiate the correct muscle contractions required for specific movements are thought to original in this region.   The basal ganglia may be like a computer which, if you have dystonia, malfunctions. There are no laboratory tests which can confirm the diagnosis of dystonia.  The diagnosis is made on the basis of clinical neurological history and examination. Thanks for letting me get a little bit off my mind…I hope I can be of help to other people here as well. Connie

Gene

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A small correction using the computer industry lingo is that our "Operating System" has a small bug that causes intermittent failures of the computer itself.  Consequently, a number of highly paid researchers (Systems Analysts) are attempting to debug the system but so far have not been successful.  We may need to hire more competent personnel. Larry Barlar

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Are you trying to tell us that not only do we have dystonia but our brains are running Windows ‘95?! <g That’s a 32 bit application MB

Hey Larry!  You catch that?!  The gal’s getting smart on us! <g Cathy. —  (—-)                                                     (—-)   "  "         http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~collisoc          "  "

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I am so happy to find this place on the internet–I was diagnosed with dystonia in the upper extremities and essential tremor of the head 2 years ago. It has been a struggle to finally get a diagnosis and even more of a struggle to find out more about it. Thank goodness I stumbled upon this newsgroup. I would like to exchange e-mail with anyone who feels inspired to write and share their experiences with me — I have felt so all alone through all of this. Barbara Zalesny

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The basal ganglia may be like a computer which, if you have dystonia, malfunctions. Are you trying to tell us that not only do we have dystonia but our brains are running Windows ‘95?! <g (err… nobody from MicroSoft is on here, are they…?) Cathy.

That’s a 32 bit application MB

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