Question:

Weel, the doctor’s second call yesterday was basically go see a doctor, whether it’s a normal doctor or an emergency room or whatever it takes.  So I went.  I got there about 7:45 pm, and left about 3:40 am.  That’s right, 8 hours.  One ambulance after another, and I kept getting bumped.  It’s kind of sad really,. I saw the triage number – I was a three.  A one is someone who is critical, 2, is less critical, 3 is moderate, 4 is cuts and bruises.  So I spent 45 minutes in a treatment room and 4 1/2 of those hours sitting on a gurney in the hallway, waiting for the doctor, or testing, or whatever.  Two breathing treatments, some blood tests, a chest x-ray, and a dose of pred. later, I finally went home.  I can actually breathe properly now, although my chest is still tight.  When I was in the ER, I was at that state where you can’t breathe with your diaphram, and you only breathe with your chest muscles.  I never realized how tiring that can be until last night. And now, I’m frustrated.  My pulmonologist said I had done everything right, and yet I still ended up in the ER.  If I had been home, it would have been an office visit, but still……I’m  on probably 3-5 times the medicine I was on last summer, and actually feel worse.  I was at the same peak flows last summer on 2 puffs of Vanceril twice a day.  Now I’m taking 2 puffs of Flovent 220 and 2-3 puffs of Serevent twice a day.  I have good relationships with both my pulmonologist and primary doctors, so when I tell them what’s going on we don’t have much discussion.  In fact, the ER doctor was thrilled to find out that I had my inhalers with me, had a prescription for prednisone, had a nebulizer, had a list of all my peak flows for the last year, and a written action plan.  When she started asking questions and I answered them all without too much effort, she said "you are probably the best thing to happen to me all night" – I knew what was going on, and that’s apparently a rare thing.  So what else is there? For someone who has it together, knows an adequate amount about their condition to be able to converse with a doctor about it, and knows what to do when, ending up getting sick over and over again is difficult to handle. janet

Response:

Weel, the doctor’s second call yesterday was basically go see a doctor, whether it’s a normal doctor or an emergency room or whatever it takes.  So I went.  I got there about 7:45 pm, and left about 3:40 am.  That’s right, 8 hours. One ambulance after another, and I kept getting bumped.  It’s kind of sad really,. I saw the triage number – I was a three.  A one is someone who is critical, 2, is less critical, 3 is moderate, 4 is cuts and bruises.  So I spent 45 minutes in a treatment room and 4 1/2 of those hours sitting on a gurney in the hallway, waiting for the doctor, or testing, or whatever.

I guess that it depends on what hospital you go to (and when).  When I last had to hit an ER I was literally disorentated by the speed which I was treated.  I had one nurse inserting an IV, another attaching the wires for the EKG, another checking my vitals (I knew I made the right decision when she reported: "Faint breath sounds left lung – no breath sounds right lung.") and the doctor hooking me up to oxygen.  (They also did a peakflow on me and I blew a 110 out of a personal best of 650). And now, I’m frustrated.  My pulmonologist said I had done everything right, and yet I still ended up in the ER.

It happens.  I caught a mild cold then was unexpecdly stuck outside on a cold windy day.  Sometimes we just get caught in a bad situation. rare thing.  So what else is there? For someone who has it together, knows an adequate amount about their condition to be able to converse with a doctor about it, and knows what to do when, ending up getting sick over and over again is difficult to handle.

We just do the best we can.  There are no easy answers and asthma can (and does) get better or worse for no easily discernable reason.

Response:

Question:

Prozac May Soon Have a Generic Brand (washingtonpost.com)        By Katrina Hull       Associated Press Writer       Monday, July 30, 2001; 5:48 PM       INDIANAPOLIS

Question:

Since I started Singulair 10mg 1x tablets 2 weeks ago, I get headaches almost daily.  (Didn’t have that with Accolate).  I have tried advil and tylenol but neither seems to get rid of the headache completely. Sometimes the headache is on one side only—never had that before. For those with the same sideaffect, what are you taking that seems to work on these headaches?   Thanks, Lynn

Response:

If you are getting headaches from the Singulair you need to call your doctor and tell him. He may advice you to quit taking it. Any side effect of a drug should be reported to your doctor at once!!  Janice – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Since I started Singulair 10mg 1x tablets 2 weeks ago, I get headaches almost daily.  (Didn’t have that with Accolate).  I have tried advil and tylenol but neither seems to get rid of the headache completely. Sometimes the headache is on one side only—never had that before. For those with the same sideaffect, what are you taking that seems to work on these headaches? Thanks, Lynn

Response:

Headaches are a known side affect with Singulair.  My patient information guide shows that and the Dr. has confirmed that.  It is a side affect I am willing to deal with so long as my asthma is controlled.  I have cough asthma and I have tried just about every drug combo/type in the past 2.5 years with no real relief.  So far, I am getting slowly better on the singuliar with Flovent 110 2puffs 2x and albuterol as needed.  At this point I just want to know what works to relieve the headaches and if they will taper off as I adjust to the Singulair over time.  From what I have been told, the answer so far seems to be yes.   Thanks for your reply, Lynn – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you are getting headaches from the Singulair you need to call your doctor and tell him. He may advice you to quit taking it. Any side effect of a drug should be reported to your doctor at once!!  Janice Since I started Singulair 10mg 1x tablets 2 weeks ago, I get headaches almost daily.  (Didn’t have that with Accolate).  I have tried advil and tylenol but neither seems to get rid of the headache completely. Sometimes the headache is on one side only—never had that before. For those with the same sideaffect, what are you taking that seems to work on these headaches? Thanks, Lynn

Response:

Lynn, When you have to start taking meds for the side-effects, there is cause to be concerned.  What the headaches are from??  I tried Singulair and am considering it again (I still have 1/2 bottle left), but I did have flare-up while I was on it and went back to Accolate.  I’m not noticing any side effects, otherwise I’d think twice about continuing. Better report that to the doc too. Since I started Singulair 10mg 1x tablets 2 weeks ago, I get headaches

almost daily.  (Didn’t have that with Accolate).  I have tried advil and tylenol but neither seems to get rid of the headache completely. Sometimes the headache is on one side only—never had that before. For those with the same sideaffect, what are you taking that seems to work on these headaches?   Thanks, Lynn<< Sue M.

Response:

The Prescribing Information shows that headaches with Singular are not significently greater than with placebo. See: www.singulair.com http://www.merck.com/!!vmIKI0y_2vmIKL0ZbE/product/usa/singulair/presc… Adverse Effects "Headache   18.4% with Singulair,  18.1% with placebo" So its rather unlikely that Singulair is the cause of your headaches. However you could try stopping Singulair for a few days to see, with your doctor’s permission. Headache is a known side effects of albuterol. See www.rxlist.com Ellis – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Headaches are a known side affect with Singulair.  My patient information guide shows that and the Dr. has confirmed that.  It is a side affect I am willing to deal with so long as my asthma is controlled.  I have cough asthma and I have tried just about every drug combo/type in the past 2.5 years with no real relief.  So far, I am getting slowly better on the singuliar with Flovent 110 2puffs 2x and albuterol as needed.  At this point I just want to know what works to relieve the headaches and if they will taper off as I adjust to the Singulair over time.  From what I have been told, the answer so far seems to be yes. Thanks for your reply, Lynn If you are getting headaches from the Singulair you need to call your doctor and tell him. He may advice you to quit taking it. Any side effect of a drug should be reported to your doctor at once!!  Janice Since I started Singulair 10mg 1x tablets 2 weeks ago, I get headaches almost daily.  (Didn’t have that with Accolate).  I have tried advil and tylenol but neither seems to get rid of the headache completely. Sometimes the headache is on one side only—never had that before. For those with the same sideaffect, what are you taking that seems to work on these headaches? Thanks, Lynn

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -The Prescribing Information shows that headaches with Singular are not significently greater than with placebo. See: www.singulair.com http://www.merck.com/!!vmIKI0y_2vmIKL0ZbE/product/usa/singulair/presc… fo/pi.html Adverse Effects "Headache   18.4% with Singulair,  18.1% with placebo" So its rather unlikely that Singulair is the cause of your headaches. However you could try stopping Singulair for a few days to see, with your doctor’s permission. Headache is a known side effects of albuterol. See www.rxlist.com

went to that site and searched albuterol…it claims that for inhalation aersols, Proventil is "not rated equivalent" to an equal dose of Ventolin. I just got switched TO Ventolin from Proventil, so I’d like to know from someone who hopefully does: what’s the difference? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Ellis Headaches are a known side affect with Singulair.  My patient information guide shows that and the Dr. has confirmed that.  It is a side affect I am willing to deal with so long as my asthma is controlled.  I have cough asthma and I have tried just about every drug combo/type in the past 2.5 years with no real relief.  So far, I am getting slowly better on the singuliar with Flovent 110 2puffs 2x and albuterol as needed.  At this point I just want to know what works to relieve the headaches and if they will taper off as I adjust to the Singulair over time.  From what I have been told, the answer so far seems to be yes. Thanks for your reply, Lynn If you are getting headaches from the Singulair you need to call your doctor and tell him. He may advice you to quit taking it. Any side effect of a drug should be reported to your doctor at once!!  Janice Since I started Singulair 10mg 1x tablets 2 weeks ago, I get headaches almost daily.  (Didn’t have that with Accolate).  I have tried advil and tylenol but neither seems to get rid of the headache completely. Sometimes the headache is on one side only—never had that before. For those with the same sideaffect, what are you taking that seems to work on these headaches? Thanks, Lynn

– Emily …delete SPAMSTOP to email.

Response:

Headache is a known side effects of albuterol. See www.rxlist.com went to that site and searched albuterol…it claims that for inhalation aersols, Proventil is "not rated equivalent" to an equal dose of Ventolin. I just got switched TO Ventolin from Proventil, so I’d like to know from someone who hopefully does: what’s the difference? Ellis ——cut——- — Emily

Hmmmm. Good question. I thought Ventolin and Proventil (and generic albuterol/salbutamol) MDI’s were equivalent. But you are correct, the site says not only are the MDI’s not equivalent but other forms of albuterol (powder, pills) are not equivalent. However, Ventolin is made by Glaxo of England, and in the US is also supplied as Proventil by Schering under license from Glaxo. I doubt that the differences are significent, and I think if anything that Ventolin is the more reliable product. I think I did see a post that said Schering uses a different pressure in their propellant, but its interesting the other versions of albuterol are also not equivalent; maybe absorbed at a different rate. Ventolin and Proventil both have the same amount of albuterol, 90 mcg/puff at the mouthpiece [100 mcg/puff at nozzle]. My HMO provides generic albuterol MDI’s, Dey. It seems to work as well as Ventolin or Proventil, both of which I have used. http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/albut1.htm albuterol Excerpt: "How Supplied – Rated Therapeutically Equivalent: Aerosol, Metered – Inhalation – 0.09 mg/inh        17 gm, 200 inh                    $22.20                          Ventolin, Refill, Glaxo Wellcome                                                    00173-0321-98        17 gm, 200 inh                    $24.08                          Ventolin, Inhaler, Glaxo Wellcome                                                    00173-0321-88 How Supplied – Not Rated Equivalent: Aerosol, Metered – Inhalation – 0.09 mg/inh        17 gm              $22.20                   Proventil, Schering                                  00085-0614-03        17 gm              $24.09                   Proventil, Schering                                  00085-0614-02 Capsule, Gelatin – Inhalation – 200 mcg        100’s             $24.08                   Ventolin, Rotacaps, Refill, Glaxo Wellcome                                                    00173-0389-02        100’s             $28.42                   Ventolin, Rotacaps, Glaxo Wellcome                                                    00173-0389-01        24’s             $19.51                   Ventolin Rotacaps, Glaxo Wellcome                                                    00173-0389-03 Powder – -        100 gm              $135.00                    Albuterol Sulfate, Elge                                        58298-0509-01        100 gm              $187.50                    Albuterol, Paddock Labs                                        00574-0512-01        25 gm              $52.50                    Albuterol, Paddock Labs                                        00574-0512-25 Tablet, Coated, Sustained Action – Oral – 4 mg        100’s             $63.24                    Volmax, Muro Pharm                                          00451-0398-50        100’s             $63.31                    Proventil Repetabs, Schering                                          00085-0431-02        100’s             $79.28                    Proventil Repetabs, Schering                                          00085-0431-04        500’s             $307.10                    Proventil, Schering                                          00085-0431-03        60’s             $35.67                    Volmax, Muro Pharm                                          00451-0398-00 Tablet, Coated, Sustained Action – Oral – 8 mg        100’s             $117.42                    Volmax, Muro Pharm                                    00451-0399-50        60’s             $63.60                    Volmax, Muro Pharm                                    00451-0399-00" Copyright 1997 – Mosby Inc. – Mosby’s GenRx

Response:

Since I started Singulair 10mg 1x tablets 2 weeks ago, I get headaches almost daily.  (Didn’t have that with Accolate).  I have tried advil and tylenol but neither seems to get rid of the headache completely. Sometimes the headache is on one side only—never had that before.

boy, I thought I was going crazy expirencing this! like you, nothing seems to work, and my asthma doc is convinced there’s "no side-effects" with singulair…maybe it’s finally time to get a second (and third if necessary ) opinion! Judge me all you want, just keep the verdict to yourself

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – After this I tried Celexa, Effexor and Zoloft.  Each helped for a week or two and then the irritability and aggression began to steadily increase until it became urgent that I stop the drug. Hi Louise, I had feelings and thoughts of aggression for a few weeks after starting to raise the Zoloft dose to high levels. What I did was take a little bit of Benadryl, about a few grains from a broken store-brand capsule, to settle the agitation.  Eventually after a few days of the Benadryl the agitation stopped and never came back again. I also started raising the dose very gradually. I have a family history of bipolar (called manic depressive back then), and my pdoc concluded that I should NEVER take any more SSRIs because I have the biological tendency to become manic from them. Are you sure you are manic on them permanently? Some of us get manic on them for a while, but only for a while. I was euphorically hypomanic from Zoloft for four months, with some jitters thrown in.  Eventually all that left. How long were you on any of the SSRIs? So, does anyone know whether the Klonopin would prevent the irritable, agitated and aggressive symptoms that I always get after a few weeks on an SSRI?  Would it be worth trying an SSRI now that I am solidly on Klonopin or is it likely that the same thing will happen? Well, I took Benadryl for a few days to calm down the agitation. It wasn’t much–just a few grains once or twice a day–not enough to make one sleepy. It worked for me.  It is used to help those who go through akathisia/ agressiveness when having starting SSRIs.  It may or may not work for you.

I was never on an SSRI for more than a month or two because my I and my pdoc and my therapist became fearful that my anger and irritation were so intense that I would lose control and they felt I should get off of them. I guess I was wondering whether the Klonopin would be like the Benedryl. Louise — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ::Two people I was very close to have passed away in the last ::6 months and another is moving far away in about 6 weeks. ::The moving has thrown me over the line and I am becoming ::more and chronically depressed, hopeless and it’s getting ::real hard to function in the mornings. <gently snipped Dear Louise, Sorry about all the loss in your life. (((((Louise))))) You seem so sensitive to lots of medication. Have you thought about getting some therapy to help deal with your feelings of loss? It could help you a lot. Healing thoughts being sent your way. Jackie ~*~If you don’t like something, change it. If you can’t change it, change your attitude~*~  ~~ Maya Angelou quote

I’m sorry, I should have said that I am in therapy.  In fact, in January, my therapist of 10 years suddenly had a stroke and died – that is one of the "losses". I have started with someone else….but it’s not the same and I don’t know if it ever will be. Louise — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

::I’m sorry, I should have said that I am in therapy.  In ::fact, in January, my therapist of 10 years suddenly had a ::stroke and died – that is one of the "losses". I’m so sorry (((((Louise))))) Jackie ~*~Life is not the way it’s supposed to be. It’s the way it    is. The way you deal with it is what makes the difference~*~   ~~ Virginia Satir   — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Over the last 10+ years, I’ve tried several SSRIs to treat a chronic low level, lifelong depression.  I have also suffered from a lot of anxiety and panic attacks and have usually been thought to have an "agitated depression" when I’ve sought psychiatric help. The only ADs that ever helped were the ones that put me to sleep and made me just able to function, but not "live", because I’d rather be sleeping, almost no matter what.  That was Luvox.  But when the dose of Luvox was raised, I didn’t become more sleepy, I became more agitated, argumentative and intolerably irritable.  I was on the verge of destruction – myself and others. After this I tried Celexa, Effexor and Zoloft.  Each helped for a week or two and then the irritability and aggression began to steadily increase until it became urgent that I stop the drug. I have a family history of bipolar (called manic depressive back then), and my pdoc concluded that I should NEVER take any more SSRIs because I have the biological tendency to become manic from them. I used Lamictal for several years with minimal success.  I need to take lots of benzos to counter the panic attacks and eventually began getting them in a variety of ways because the pdoc didn’t want me to take them every day (ativan mostly). Then I stopped the lamictal and felt better, as I suspected I would.  I was off all medication except for ativan prn for about 8 months. Then, last May (06), there were some serious changes in my life and I became extremely anxious.  I went to see a new pdoc who suggested that we focus on the panic attacks and the anxiety and see what happens.  I am now taking 2mg Klonopin daily and it has definitely helped to level me out and yet, to leave me able to feel and think clearly and have good judgment.  It has provided a lot of relief with minimal side effects.  I don’t really care that it might be addictive. Two people I was very close to have passed away in the last 6 months and another is moving far away in about 6 weeks. The moving has thrown me over the line and I am becoming more and chronically depressed, hopeless and it’s getting real hard to function in the mornings. Seroquel was suggested but I refused it because of its potential to cause diabetes.  This is a disease I dread and I will not take a drug that makes it happen to some people and they don’t know why! So, does anyone know whether the Klonopin would prevent the irritable, agitated and aggressive symptoms that I always get after a few weeks on an SSRI?  Would it be worth trying an SSRI now that I am solidly on Klonopin or is it likely that the same thing will happen? Thanks for reading this long post and for any experiences and/or suggestions you have. Louise — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Over the last 10+ years, I’ve tried several SSRIs to treat a chronic low level, lifelong depression.  I have also suffered from a lot of anxiety and panic attacks and have usually been thought to have an "agitated depression" when I’ve sought psychiatric help. The only ADs that ever helped were the ones that put me to sleep and made me just able to function, but not "live", because I’d rather be sleeping, almost no matter what.  That was Luvox.  But when the dose of Luvox was raised, I didn’t become more sleepy, I became more agitated, argumentative and intolerably irritable.  I was on the verge of destruction – myself and others. After this I tried Celexa, Effexor and Zoloft.  Each helped for a week or two and then the irritability and aggression began to steadily increase until it became urgent that I stop the drug. I have a family history of bipolar (called manic depressive back then), and my pdoc concluded that I should NEVER take any more SSRIs because I have the biological tendency to become manic from them. I used Lamictal for several years with minimal success.  I need to take lots of benzos to counter the panic attacks and eventually began getting them in a variety of ways because the pdoc didn’t want me to take them every day (ativan mostly). Then I stopped the lamictal and felt better, as I suspected I would.  I was off all medication except for ativan prn for about 8 months. Then, last May (06), there were some serious changes in my life and I became extremely anxious.  I went to see a new pdoc who suggested that we focus on the panic attacks and the anxiety and see what happens.  I am now taking 2mg Klonopin daily and it has definitely helped to level me out and yet, to leave me able to feel and think clearly and have good judgment.  It has provided a lot of relief with minimal side effects.  I don’t really care that it might be addictive. Two people I was very close to have passed away in the last 6 months and another is moving far away in about 6 weeks. The moving has thrown me over the line and I am becoming more and chronically depressed, hopeless and it’s getting real hard to function in the mornings. Seroquel was suggested but I refused it because of its potential to cause diabetes.  This is a disease I dread and I will not take a drug that makes it happen to some people and they don’t know why! So, does anyone know whether the Klonopin would prevent the irritable, agitated and aggressive symptoms that I always get after a few weeks on an SSRI?

Klonopin isn’t a mood stabilizer, so my guess is that it wouldn’t prevent a mood swing to hypomania/mania. Our resident psychiatrist Margrove might be able to suggest a good med combo. Bupropion (Wellbutrin) is used for depression in bipolars cause it is thought it is less likely than other antidepressants to result in a mood swing . Chip — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

::Two people I was very close to have passed away in the last ::6 months and another is moving far away in about 6 weeks. ::The moving has thrown me over the line and I am becoming ::more and chronically depressed, hopeless and it’s getting ::real hard to function in the mornings. <gently snipped Dear Louise, Sorry about all the loss in your life. (((((Louise))))) You seem so sensitive to lots of medication. Have you thought about getting some therapy to help deal with your feelings of loss? It could help you a lot. Healing thoughts being sent your way. Jackie ~*~If you don’t like something, change it. If you can’t change it, change your attitude~*~  ~~ Maya Angelou quote — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

After this I tried Celexa, Effexor and Zoloft.  Each helped for a week or two and then the irritability and aggression began to steadily increase until it became urgent that I stop the drug.

Hi Louise, I had feelings and thoughts of aggression for a few weeks after starting to raise the Zoloft dose to high levels. What I did was take a little bit of Benadryl, about a few grains from a broken store-brand capsule, to settle the agitation.  Eventually after a few days of the Benadryl the agitation stopped and never came back again. I also started raising the dose very gradually. I have a family history of bipolar (called manic depressive back then), and my pdoc concluded that I should NEVER take any more SSRIs because I have the biological tendency to become manic from them.

Are you sure you are manic on them permanently? Some of us get manic on them for a while, but only for a while. I was euphorically hypomanic from Zoloft for four months, with some jitters thrown in.  Eventually all that left. How long were you on any of the SSRIs? So, does anyone know whether the Klonopin would prevent the irritable, agitated and aggressive symptoms that I always get after a few weeks on an SSRI?  Would it be worth trying an SSRI now that I am solidly on Klonopin or is it likely that the same thing will happen?

Well, I took Benadryl for a few days to calm down the agitation. It wasn’t much–just a few grains once or twice a day–not enough to make one sleepy. It worked for me.  It is used to help those who go through akathisia/ agressiveness when having starting SSRIs.  It may or may not work for you. — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Question:

http://www.effexorfx.freeuk.com/

It linked to http://rxlist.com and I noted the connection between Effexor and blood pressure.  Though the data played down the impact of Effexor, it did indicate that Effexor did raise blood pressure in proportion to dose. I just had my blood pressure taken after 9 months of Effexor XR 150mg.  The first systolic reading was 170 and the second was 160.  The nurse was worried that I was about to have a stroke!  I stopped taking it for several days, today my reading was 145/90 (still too high but not stroke-level). I am going to go for a week without it and see what my blood pressure drops to.  Although I am somewhat overweight and my diet is not too good, I am convinced that the Effexor is the chief cause of my high blood pressure.  Just 2 years ago it was only 125 in a doctor’s office.

Response:

http://www.effexorfx.freeuk.com/

Response:

Question:

My son has been prescribed Effexor for over 2yrs and it has proved more effective than Prozac. However, when taking his normal dosage of 187.5mg a day, a heavy rash breaks out on his arms and upper body. When he reduces the dosage, the rash subsides but he quickly becomes depressed again. Has anyone else had similar problems and how did they overcome them? Or is there an alternative medication which is at least as effective without these distressing side effects. Thanks.

Response:

hello – Upon my initial introduction to Effexor, I too had a rash, but it was on my face. My skin became very red, and then got flaky. It was not itchy, per se, but felt very aching and tight. I used an aloe vera-based moisturizer on my face for about a week, and so far, the rash has not returned. Have your son’s doctors been diligent with helping him with this side effect? If the Effexor is successful for him, it would be a shame not to try to control the rash. Perhaps a skin specialist might be able to offer some help. — regards, Compucat  ^+^<

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My son has been prescribed Effexor for over 2yrs and it has proved more effective than Prozac. However, when taking his normal dosage of 187.5mg a day, a heavy rash breaks out on his arms and upper body. When he reduces the dosage, the rash subsides but he quickly becomes depressed again. Has anyone else had similar problems and how did they overcome them? Or is there an alternative medication which is at least as effective without these distressing side effects. Thanks.

Response:

Thanks for your prompt reply. My son’s rash comprises of dark red spots which itch and then turn to sores. Maybe he should see a skin specialist. Unfortunately, with the NHS, this could take some time to arrange —

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – hello – Upon my initial introduction to Effexor, I too had a rash, but it was on my face. My skin became very red, and then got flaky. It was not itchy, per se, but felt very aching and tight. I used an aloe vera-based moisturizer on my face for about a week, and so far, the rash has not returned. Have your son’s doctors been diligent with helping him with this side effect? If the Effexor is successful for him, it would be a shame not to try to control the rash. Perhaps a skin specialist might be able to offer some help. — regards, Compucat  ^+^< My son has been prescribed Effexor for over 2yrs and it has proved more effective than Prozac. However, when taking his normal dosage of 187.5mg a day, a heavy rash breaks out on his arms and upper body. When he reduces the dosage, the rash subsides but he quickly becomes depressed again. Has anyone else had similar problems and how did they overcome them? Or is there an alternative medication which is at least as effective without these distressing side effects. Thanks.

Response:

Hi and Welcome to the ng, My son has been prescribed Effexor for over 2yrs and it has proved more effective than Prozac. However, when taking his normal dosage of 187.5mg a day, a heavy rash breaks out on his arms and upper body. When he reduces the dosage, the rash subsides but he quickly becomes depressed again. Has anyone else had similar problems and how did they overcome them? Or is there an alternative medication which is at least as effective without these distressing side effects. Thanks.

‘Rash is a relatively uncmmon occurrence but I strongly suggest you discuss this with his doctor. — LyndaNP Reality isn’t the way you wish things to be, nor the way they appear to be, but the way they actually are. – Robert J. Ringer

Response:

Question:

Hi Cheryl, So sorry you are going through this.  Sending you caring and support!   Take care, Liz — There is always music amongst the trees in the garden but our minds must be very still to hear it. ASAP Gardening Site: http://www.chickadee.com/asapgardens

Response:

See below….(Phillip)

answered by email as I got it in my inbox as well. P. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Philip, It’s been the worst day…I have been so sick today…I still feel so odd, tomorrow I am only taking 25mg…( she has me on 50)  I had no short term memory, I would start saying something and forget, go into a room and forgot what I went for.. I haven’t had hardly a bite to eat and have been trying to drink.  I am caling Medusa tomorrow then I have to call my freakin primary to see her and then get a referral to go see someone able to help me with this medication..I can’t even think about it.   I think the worst today was when I woke up after just crashing I could hear my dead step father talking to me in my ear…that freaked me out.  I have been on the couch all day and thank God it’s Ted’s early day.  ;o( This whole thing saddens me. — Clowns to the left of me Jokers to the right Here I am Stuck in the middle with you. TC3 Ugh. I started 50mg of Z yesterday…from only a week of decreasing my Remeron from 30 to 15.  I feel like I am on a ship, everything is rocking and I am sweaty and feeling like a wet noodle. Of all freaking times to have to post about my meds with all the crap going on here…  That makes me more upset. One good thing, I have zippo appetite…that Snickers bar sitting on the hutch doesn’t even look appealing. I think you might ask your doctor to reduce the Zoloft dose to 12.5 mg and then raise it slowly. You are now experiencing initial SSRI side effects possibly augmented by Remeron withdrawal (although R is not associated witjh a withdrawal problem as a rule). Do you have one of those lovely benzos on the side to take *as needed*? Philip — Clowns to the left of me Jokers to the right Here I am Stuck in the middle with you. TC3

Response:

Thanks Philip~ I emailed you…oh you bet your boots I have my ativan handy! xoxo Cheryl — Clowns to the left of me Jokers to the right Here I am Stuck in the middle with you. TC3

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – See below….(Phillip) answered by email as I got it in my inbox as well. P. Philip, It’s been the worst day…I have been so sick today…I still feel so odd, tomorrow I am only taking 25mg…( she has me on 50)  I had no short term memory, I would start saying something and forget, go into a room and forgot what I went for.. I haven’t had hardly a bite to eat and have been trying to drink.  I am caling Medusa tomorrow then I have to call my freakin primary to see her and then get a referral to go see someone able to help me with this medication..I can’t even think about it.   I think the worst today was when I woke up after just crashing I could hear my dead step father talking to me in my ear…that freaked me out.  I have been on the couch all day and thank God it’s Ted’s early day.  ;o( This whole thing saddens me. — Clowns to the left of me Jokers to the right Here I am Stuck in the middle with you. TC3 Ugh. I started 50mg of Z yesterday…from only a week of decreasing my Remeron from 30 to 15.  I feel like I am on a ship, everything is rocking and I am sweaty and feeling like a wet noodle. Of all freaking times to have to post about my meds with all the crap going on here…  That makes me more upset. One good thing, I have zippo appetite…that Snickers bar sitting on the hutch doesn’t even look appealing. I think you might ask your doctor to reduce the Zoloft dose to 12.5 mg and then raise it slowly. You are now experiencing initial SSRI side effects possibly augmented by Remeron withdrawal (although R is not associated witjh a withdrawal problem as a rule). Do you have one of those lovely benzos on the side to take *as needed*? Philip — Clowns to the left of me Jokers to the right Here I am Stuck in the middle with you. TC3

Response:

I am sorry you aren’t feeling well. Hopfully you will get used to the new meds very soon. Good luck and I hope you feel better. Amy

Response:

Ugh. I started 50mg of Z yesterday…from only a week of decreasing my Remeron from 30 to 15.  I feel like I am on a ship, everything is rocking and I am sweaty and feeling like a wet noodle. Of all freaking times to have to post about my meds with all the crap going on here…  That makes me more upset. One good thing, I have zippo appetite…that Snickers bar sitting on the hutch doesn’t even look appealing.

I think you might ask your doctor to reduce the Zoloft dose to 12.5 mg and then raise it slowly. You are now experiencing initial SSRI side effects possibly augmented by Remeron withdrawal (although R is not associated witjh a withdrawal problem as a rule). Do you have one of those lovely benzos on the side to take *as needed*? Philip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — Clowns to the left of me Jokers to the right Here I am Stuck in the middle with you. TC3

Response:

See below….(Phillip) Philip, It’s been the worst day…I have been so sick today…I still feel so odd, tomorrow I am only taking 25mg…( she has me on 50)  I had no short term memory, I would start saying something and forget, go into a room and forgot what I went for.. I haven’t had hardly a bite to eat and have been trying to drink.  I am caling Medusa tomorrow then I have to call my freakin primary to see her and then get a referral to go see someone able to help me with this medication..I can’t even think about it.   I think the worst today was when I woke up after just crashing I could hear my dead step father talking to me in my ear…that freaked me out.  I have been on the couch all day and thank God it’s Ted’s early day.  ;o( This whole thing saddens me. — Clowns to the left of me Jokers to the right Here I am Stuck in the middle with you. TC3

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ugh. I started 50mg of Z yesterday…from only a week of decreasing my Remeron from 30 to 15.  I feel like I am on a ship, everything is rocking and I am sweaty and feeling like a wet noodle. Of all freaking times to have to post about my meds with all the crap going on here…  That makes me more upset. One good thing, I have zippo appetite…that Snickers bar sitting on the hutch doesn’t even look appealing. I think you might ask your doctor to reduce the Zoloft dose to 12.5 mg and then raise it slowly. You are now experiencing initial SSRI side effects possibly augmented by Remeron withdrawal (although R is not associated witjh a withdrawal problem as a rule). Do you have one of those lovely benzos on the side to take *as needed*? Philip — Clowns to the left of me Jokers to the right Here I am Stuck in the middle with you. TC3

Response:

Is 50mg a lot? Is it comparable to Remeron 30 or 15?

Yup, 50mgs is too high to start with. Some people start at 12.5mgs, others at 25mgs. Hope you are feeling better Jackie ~*~There came a time when the risk to remain tight in a bud was

Response:

Hi Cheryl, ((((Cheryl)))), I hope you feel better soon, I don’t have any words of wisdom for you, sorry. I’ve been gone a while, what’s going on here that I’m missing? Love Cathy — P.H.O.B.I.A. Off-line NJ Panic/Anxiety Support Group http://community.nj.com/cc/phobia

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ugh. I started 50mg of Z yesterday…from only a week of decreasing my Remeron from 30 to 15.  I feel like I am on a ship, everything is rocking and I am sweaty and feeling like a wet noodle. Of all freaking times to have to post about my meds with all the crap going on here…  That makes me more upset. One good thing, I have zippo appetite…that Snickers bar sitting on the hutch doesn’t even look appealing. — Clowns to the left of me Jokers to the right Here I am Stuck in the middle with you. TC3

Response:

Cheryl, Hope you are feeling better soon.  Those med changes can really get the best of us.  Hangin there… smiles, elise

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ugh. I started 50mg of Z yesterday…from only a week of decreasing my Remeron from 30 to 15.  I feel like I am on a ship, everything is rocking and I am sweaty and feeling like a wet noodle. Of all freaking times to have to post about my meds with all the crap going on here…  That makes me more upset. One good thing, I have zippo appetite…that Snickers bar sitting on the hutch doesn’t even look appealing. — Clowns to the left of me Jokers to the right Here I am Stuck in the middle with you. TC3

Response:

I’m so sorry you feel so crummy!  Pamper yourself today. Love, Di

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ugh. I started 50mg of Z yesterday…from only a week of decreasing my Remeron from 30 to 15.  I feel like I am on a ship, everything is rocking and I am sweaty and feeling like a wet noodle. Of all freaking times to have to post about my meds with all the crap going on here…  That makes me more upset. One good thing, I have zippo appetite…that Snickers bar sitting on the hutch doesn’t even look appealing. — Clowns to the left of me Jokers to the right Here I am Stuck in the middle with you. TC3

Response:

Is 50mg a lot? Is it comparable to Remeron 30 or 15?

different drug different mechanism of action-if your gonna do the medusa dance get her to dosie doe a bit and get her permission to up your ativan or up hers and call Jeff Apter-Zoloft compared to remeron is like qualuudes vrs speed so your now on dexamil and doin a bounce-50mg may be too high for a conversion for you it is a transition so make yourself comfortable as possible instead of white knuckling it-that lack of appetite will change to some carb craving soon this is a signal the zoloft is working but imo may be just change for change sake as the more you crave and consume the less you will burn and lose-she is using an older viewpoint that zoloft reduces appetite-ask some others here if their appetite is reduced-it is no less difficult to wean off then remeron in fact it may be a tad bit more difficult due to its energizing effects on some-get a professional opinion by a psychopharm doc not a transplant renal nephrologist whatever—- she wants to maximize the transplants life and that’s ok but there are other issues-including if you are psychologicaly ready to embark on being med free-trade offs is the name of the game-ch ch ch changes—-love bowie within a few days you will feel better be a patient patient but an assertive one-its your kidney now and your medical program- LM

Response:

TC3 wrote : Ugh. I started 50mg of Z yesterday…from only a week of decreasing my Remeron from 30 to 15.  I feel like I am on a ship, everything is rocking and I am sweaty and feeling like a wet noodle. Of all freaking times to have to post about my meds with all the crap going on here…  That makes me more upset. One good thing, I have zippo appetite…that Snickers bar sitting on the hutch doesn’t even look appealing.

Hi Cheryl. I’m sorry to hear you don’t feel so well right now. You’ll feel better later on I’m sure; not that that’s any great consolation… Hope you are better quickly. Take care please. -Z-

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Path: news.wxs.nl!transit.news.xs4all.nl!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell. syr.edu!europa.netcrusader.net!207.172.3.44!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.r cn.net!rcn!not-for-mail X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVaCEadlqERcrH2iB2DgoRe3oWrW7CknZkw+m+WUDUIrVGnuqIZuMKvN 12:55:51 GMT X-MimeOLE:  Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 X-Priority:  3 X-Newsreader:  Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MSMail-Priority:  Normal Xref: news.wxs.nl alt.support.anxiety-panic:263175 Thank you Anna! My doc thinks if I get off the Rem I can lose some weight…I just feel like I was so manic yesterday then crashed by midnight now I am really anxious and just feeling like a noodle. (  I have to get her ready for school and feel like I won’t be able to get her out of the door.. I don’t want to make her stay home because of this..that isn’t fair to her.  *sigh* I need your hug thanks xoxoxo love Cheryl

Dear one, yes you sounded a bit manic yestreday I think you have worn yourself down totally If you manage to get the sprogg to school try take some rest Cheryl We both know that tiredness is a great motor for PA. Hope you get some rest and hang in there Lotsa kisses over the ocean flying your way Anna – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — Clowns to the left of me Jokers to the right Here I am Stuck in the middle with you. TC3 Path: news.wxs.nl!news2.kpn.net!news.kpn.net!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!f e ed2.onemain.com!feed1.onemain.com!news-out.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!feed2 . news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!not-for-mail Feb 2001 07:29:59 -0500 Lines: UmFuZG9tSVZ9/f13lPYO1NQUJPzRlFuUUs+boUPTy+xZ+DqhBnD8RP1a78V4bucI 12:19:46 GMT X-MimeOLE:  Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 X-Priority:  3 X-Newsreader:  Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MSMail-Priority:  Normal Xref: news.wxs.nl alt.support.anxiety-panic:263162 Ugh. I started 50mg of Z yesterday…from only a week of decreasing my Remeron from 30 to 15.  I feel like I am on a ship, everything is rocking and I am sweaty and feeling like a wet noodle. Of all freaking times to have to post about my meds with all the crap going on here…  That makes me more upset. One good thing, I have zippo appetite…that Snickers bar sitting on the hutch doesn’t even look appealing. — Clowns to the left of me Jokers to the right Here I am Stuck in the middle with you. TC3 Dear cheryl, I did not know you where changing meds Why is that was the other med not doing its work ??? I am really sorry you feel like this. Maybe it gets better soon. I really hope so for you. And otherwise call the doc.  No need to feel awfull all the time !!! You had your share huh VERY ferm hug from Anna

Response:

Hi Cheryl, I know how you feel.  Supposedly, switching from Paxil to Zoloft was not supposed to be any big deal, but I feel different and it is not all my doing.  I am more nervous, and have the trembles.  I am just trying to be patient and see if it passes with time.  I still function, but do not feel comfortable.  Chores are getting done as usual, but not with the same peace. Hope you feel better soon, Cheryl.  Let us know how you are doing! Take care, Liz – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ugh. I started 50mg of Z yesterday…from only a week of decreasing my Remeron from 30 to 15.  I feel like I am on a ship, everything is rocking and I am sweaty and feeling like a wet noodle. Of all freaking times to have to post about my meds with all the crap going on here…  That makes me more upset. One good thing, I have zippo appetite…that Snickers bar sitting on the hutch doesn’t even look appealing. — Clowns to the left of me Jokers to the right Here I am Stuck in the middle with you. TC3

– There is always music amongst the trees in the garden but our minds must be very still to hear it. ASAP Gardening Site: http://www.chickadee.com/asapgardens

Response:

I feel like dog doo. I am manic then exhausted, and I can’t remember anything…I was a mess getting her ready for school. Ack. I know it’s a transition.. Julie, that Snickers is still there so you know I am not feeling well~ LOL Is 50mg a lot? Is it comparable to Remeron 30 or 15? <Mercury, AD change and anxiety…perfect together LOL love Cheryl — Clowns to the left of me Jokers to the right Here I am Stuck in the middle with you. TC3

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I started 50mg of Z yesterday…from only a week of decreasing my Remeron from 30 to 15.  I feel like I am on a ship, everything is rocking and I am sweaty and feeling like a wet noodle. Of all freaking times to have to post about my meds with all the crap going on here…  That makes me more upset. One good thing, I have zippo appetite…that Snickers bar sitting on the hutch doesn’t even look appealing. Dear Cheryl, I`m sorry that you feel so lousy ( If you continue to feel this way, you might want to ask your doctor about decreasing your Zoloft dose to 25mgs for a week, them go to 50mgs, you could even wean slower than this by increasing in 12.5mg increments. I hope you feel better soon {{{{{Cheryl}}}}} Jackie

Response:

I started 50mg of Z yesterday…from only a week of decreasing my Remeron from 30 to 15.  I feel like I am on a ship, everything is rocking and I am sweaty and feeling like a wet noodle. Of all freaking times to have to post about my meds with all the crap going on here…  That makes me more upset. One good thing, I have zippo appetite…that Snickers bar sitting on the hutch doesn’t even look appealing.

Dear Cheryl, I`m sorry that you feel so lousy ( If you continue to feel this way, you might want to ask your doctor about decreasing your Zoloft dose to 25mgs for a week, them go to 50mgs, you could even wean slower than this by increasing in 12.5mg increments. I hope you feel better soon {{{{{Cheryl}}}}} Jackie

Response:

Ugh. I started 50mg of Z yesterday…from only a week of decreasing my Remeron from 30 to 15.  I feel like I am on a ship, everything is rocking and I am sweaty and feeling like a wet noodle. Of all freaking times to have to post about my meds with all the crap going on here…  That makes me more upset. One good thing, I have zippo appetite…that Snickers bar sitting on the hutch doesn’t even look appealing.

How long are you going to look at that Snickers Bar???? Sweetie, ignore the crap here. No biggie. Now, you know that it will take awhile for the Zoloft to get to a theraputic level in your system. You need to hang on through these few physical adjustments UNLESS they are bothering you too much. Then call the doctor and tell him. If you have a chance, call the pharmacist and ask him to give you the details on the zoloft. He should be able to pop that info on his screen while you are on the phone with him. Let him know the side effects you are having…then he can look it up. When my Effexor was increased, each time I had a strange symptom or side effect, which eventually went away. I hope that your sweats and unsteadiness will not be for long. Is that Snickers still sitting on your hutch? love,Julie

Response:

Ugh. I started 50mg of Z yesterday…from only a week of decreasing my Remeron from 30 to 15.  I feel like I am on a ship, everything is rocking and I am sweaty and feeling like a wet noodle. Of all freaking times to have to post about my meds with all the crap going on here…  That makes me more upset. One good thing, I have zippo appetite…that Snickers bar sitting on the hutch doesn’t even look appealing. — Clowns to the left of me Jokers to the right Here I am Stuck in the middle with you. TC3

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Path: news.wxs.nl!news2.kpn.net!news.kpn.net!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!f eed2.onemain.com!feed1.onemain.com!news-out.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!feed 2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!not-for-mail UmFuZG9tSVZ9/f13lPYO1NQUJPzRlFuUUs+boUPTy+xZ+DqhBnD8RP1a78V4bucI 12:19:46 GMT X-MimeOLE:  Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 X-Priority:  3 X-Newsreader:  Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MSMail-Priority:  Normal Xref: news.wxs.nl alt.support.anxiety-panic:263162 Ugh. I started 50mg of Z yesterday…from only a week of decreasing my Remeron from 30 to 15.  I feel like I am on a ship, everything is rocking and I am sweaty and feeling like a wet noodle. Of all freaking times to have to post about my meds with all the crap going on here…  That makes me more upset. One good thing, I have zippo appetite…that Snickers bar sitting on the hutch doesn’t even look appealing. — Clowns to the left of me Jokers to the right Here I am Stuck in the middle with you. TC3

Dear cheryl, I did not know you where changing meds Why is that was the other med not doing its work ??? I am really sorry you feel like this. Maybe it gets better soon. I really hope so for you. And otherwise call the doc.  No need to feel awfull all the time !!! You had your share huh VERY ferm hug from Anna

Response:

Thank you Anna! My doc thinks if I get off the Rem I can lose some weight…I just feel like I was so manic yesterday then crashed by midnight now I am really anxious and just feeling like a noodle. (  I have to get her ready for school and feel like I won’t be able to get her out of the door.. I don’t want to make her stay home because of this..that isn’t fair to her.  *sigh* I need your hug thanks xoxoxo love Cheryl — Clowns to the left of me Jokers to the right Here I am Stuck in the middle with you. TC3

Path:

news.wxs.nl!news2.kpn.net!news.kpn.net!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!f e ed2.onemain.com!feed1.onemain.com!news-out.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!feed2 . news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!not-for-mail – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – UmFuZG9tSVZ9/f13lPYO1NQUJPzRlFuUUs+boUPTy+xZ+DqhBnD8RP1a78V4bucI 12:19:46 GMT X-MimeOLE:  Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 X-Priority:  3 X-Newsreader:  Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MSMail-Priority:  Normal Xref: news.wxs.nl alt.support.anxiety-panic:263162 Ugh. I started 50mg of Z yesterday…from only a week of decreasing my Remeron from 30 to 15.  I feel like I am on a ship, everything is rocking and I am sweaty and feeling like a wet noodle. Of all freaking times to have to post about my meds with all the crap going on here…  That makes me more upset. One good thing, I have zippo appetite…that Snickers bar sitting on the hutch doesn’t even look appealing. — Clowns to the left of me Jokers to the right Here I am Stuck in the middle with you. TC3 Dear cheryl, I did not know you where changing meds Why is that was the other med not doing its work ??? I am really sorry you feel like this. Maybe it gets better soon. I really hope so for you. And otherwise call the doc.  No need to feel awfull all the time !!! You had your share huh VERY ferm hug from Anna

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -salarmy4me wrote:

I am trying Serzone and Visken and am on only the second day. Visken is a beta-blocker with anti-anxiety and   anti-depressant properties. The initial testing of visken with ADs showed good results. People recovered faster than with   antidepressants alone. Visken has to be used only with certain antidepressants, though. Only Paxil, Prozac, Effexor, and   Serzone have been augmented. Of course, the combo has to be studied more, but maybe I am the guinea pig for the   combo. Dr. Bob’s discussion on this showed that 15 mg is the right dose: 5mg three times a day. The side effect profile is   benign. Interestingly, I had a burst of crying in joy today. I never had that with serzone alone, but perhaps its actually the   Serzone that has finally kicked in. If anyone is interested, I will tell you more about the augmentation strategy. * Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping.  Smart is Beautiful

I’m interested…I tried Serzone but it didn’t help with my OCD. Am now on Effexor-XR. What is Visken? Thanks!

Response:

I am trying Serzone and Visken and am on only the second day. Visken is a beta-blocker with anti-anxiety and   anti-depressant properties. The initial testing of visken with ADs showed good results. People recovered faster than with   antidepressants alone. Visken has to be used only with certain antidepressants, though. Only Paxil, Prozac, Effexor, and   Serzone have been augmented. Of course, the combo has to be studied more, but maybe I am the guinea pig for the   combo. Dr. Bob’s discussion on this showed that 15 mg is the right dose: 5mg three times a day. The side effect profile is   benign. Interestingly, I had a burst of crying in joy today. I never had that with serzone alone, but perhaps its actually the   Serzone that has finally kicked in. If anyone is interested, I will tell you more about the augmentation strategy. * Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping.  Smart is Beautiful

Response:

Question:

Has anybody been on Effexor? I have been on it since November and I have recently figured out it is the cause of the strange symptoms I’ve been having. I have been bothered by mouth ulcers that make eating and drinking almost anything painful. I also get very hot with the least little bit of exertion. And it also was part of the cause of the strange dreams I was having, as well as the dizziness. I think the Effexor along with the Ginko Balboa I was trying did not do well together. Since I stopped taking the Ginko Balboa, neither one has bothered me as bad. Anyway, my question is: has anyone taken Effexor? I need to know how to taper off, because I hear the withdrawl can be bad. I was taking 225mg and have gone down to 150mg, as of two days ago, but am afraid to cut back anymore. I have a job and a family, and I don’t need to hallucinate or be sick right now! If anyone has any advice I’d appreciate it. Michele

Response:

Hi Michelle I was just prescribed this wonder drug ang I was so dizzy and sick to my stomach so I cut my per down to 1/2 a pill twice a day.It was prescribed for neurogenic pain and muscle spasms.I wanted Neurontin but the doc said this had less side effects!As far as I can see,all it is,is an antidepressant.What did you get it prescribed for?225 mg is the maximum dosage.Your doctor really started you off with a bang. What do you think is a better alternative? Carol — Posted via Talkway – http://www.talkway.com Exchange ideas on practically anything ™.

Response:

the smart thing to do is to call your doctor. you shouldnt be looking to non-medical people for such important info! @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ Be Well, Lisa anti-spam in effect. remove 123 from my address. "Please explain to me the scientific nature of ‘The Whammy’" – Scully "The dope’s that there’s still hope." – Bruce Springsteen @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

Response:

I have called my doctor, but I thought I would see how other people got off it while I was waiting for him to call me back. Michele

Response:

I have called my doctor, but I thought I would see how other people got off it

while I was waiting for him to call me back.

I just quit.  Didn’t suffer for it.  Were there more specific questions you have? Dabrinah

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Question:

If I understand you correctly, I tend to agree.  I am tired of hearing the opinions of people who simply cannot understand and appreciate what anxiety disorders can do to a person’s life and what medical treatments can do as coping mechanisms.  If those who oppose the medical treatment for anxiety (or anything else) could sway the medical community, THEIR day-to-day lives would remain largely unaffected, whereas OURS would become much more difficult.  And what would they care?

<snipped for space I doubt they would – they’d continue to bask in the happy glow of their neo-puritanism. I realise this thread is cross-posted to Hades and back, but I’m responding to it via alt.support.anxiety-panic and over here we have a steady stream of people breezing in with anti-medication rants. Some of them are so strange they defy comprehension, like the noted anti-benzodiazepine troller who posed as a doctor so as to slander a qualified psychiatrist who frequents the group. When unmasked and pilloried, he simply carried on under his own name, spreading the usual lies and distortions of this type of campaigner without skipping a beat. Sadly, here in the UK, the ‘tough it out’ school seems to have gained quite a sway in the medical profession too. Presumably, no one has stopped to count the suicides and wrecked lives caused by this. — Gary Cooper

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I just want to start of by saying that I agree wholeheartedly with the person who stated that drug therapy is a crutch. I just can’t resist putting in my two cents worth.  I’ll tell you one thing, if I break my leg you can bet your a… I mean you can be sure that I will use a crutch…..Hmmm… of course, I just may also want to get my leg set somewhere along the way?  What do you think?  I told you it was just two cents worth

If I understand you correctly, I tend to agree.  I am tired of hearing the opinions of people who simply cannot understand and appreciate what anxiety disorders can do to a person’s life and what medical treatments can do as coping mechanisms.  If those who oppose the medical treatment for anxiety (or anything else) could sway the medical community, THEIR day-to-day lives would remain largely unaffected, whereas OURS would become much more difficult.  And what would they care? As you pointed out, even a crutch in the literal sense is a necessity — sometimes a temporary one, and unfortunately, sometimes a long-term one.  I’d dare say that there’s not a single one among us who wouldn’t like to free him/herself from anxiety and toss the pills out forever.  But we don’t always have that luxury. — Halifax, N.S.     (The "ra" has been added to preclude junk mail)

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –         I just want to start of by saying that I agree wholeheartedly with the person who stated that drug therapy is a crutch.         The notion that brings up for me is that crutches are for crippled people.  And therefore the appropriateness of said crutch would depend mightily on the view the individual took of themselves, whether they saw themselves as broken or not.         I don’t pass judgement on anyone’s self view – I simply do not, personally, see any people as broken.  Those of you who do think you are broken – this post is not for you. For the rest of you, here is a brief story about what works:         Friend of mine had multiple phobias.  Basically, she was raped many years ago, and had panic attacks following the rapes, and the panic got generalized to lots of various things – and all those things ended up acting as anchors – triggering phobic attacks.  Pretty messy stuff.

From what you describe, it would seem that your friend did not have phobias or SP, but rather was suffering from PTSD. G.M.

Response:

   I just want to start of by saying that I agree wholeheartedly with the person who stated that drug therapy is a crutch.  

Of course drugs are crutches. Such drugs as insulin act as a crutch for a lame pancreas (Ok, Else of Langerhands or some such…). Others seem to assist lame brains… In the latter category however there seems to be an attitude of the general popluation that ‘well I don’t need Prosac, or older Valium, or older yet some set of herbals, or perhaps their industrial strength distilates, such as Heroin, so why does anyone else?’. On the other hand, it seems to be in vogue in certain psychotherapy settings that the watchword is ‘Drugs not Hugs’, as ‘Hugs’ could be interpreted wrongly, whereas drugs have a pretty unequivical meaning, ‘I want you sedated, or at least managable, and this can in no way be interpreted as a sexual overture, so we can maintain our strictly contained positions as therapist and patient.’

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –        I just want to start of by saying that I agree wholeheartedly with the person who stated that drug therapy is a crutch.   Of course drugs are crutches. Such drugs as insulin act as a crutch for a lame pancreas (Ok, Else of Langerhands or some such…). Others seem to assist lame brains… In the latter category however there seems to be an attitude of the general popluation that ‘well I don’t need Prosac, or older Valium, or older yet some set of herbals, or perhaps their industrial strength distilates, such as Heroin, so why does anyone else?’. On the other hand, it seems to be in vogue in certain psychotherapy settings that the watchword is ‘Drugs not Hugs’, as ‘Hugs’ could be interpreted wrongly, whereas drugs have a pretty unequivical meaning, ‘I want you sedated, or at least managable, and this can in no way be interpreted as a sexual overture, so we can maintain our strictly contained positions as therapist and patient.’

I just can’t resist putting in my two cents worth.  I’ll tell you one thing, if I break my leg you can bet your a… I mean you can be sure that I will use a crutch…..Hmmm… of course, I just may also want to get my leg set somewhere along the way?  What do you think?  I told you it was just two cents worth wiz

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It should be noted that I have tried NLP with no luck (actually it was effective for about 30 mins and then I was back to normal), Just a thought if you are willing to listen. The first time you rode a bike did you succeed 100%??  Or did you try and then have to make another attempt before you rode successfully?? Maybe even several or dozens on attempts!!  Did all go to plan the very first or did you have to see what went right, what went wrong, assess, re-adjust and then take the good bits and try something slightly new to see it that worked better. My point is this.  Discover what is was about NLP that made it work for 30 minutes.  Take that knowledge and work on it….get some new info and try it to see if it works.  Keep building on that.  I’m sure, as much as you also know in yourself, that you will be riding that NLP bike fluently very soon and be over your anxiety.  If it worked to 30 minutes there is NOTHING stopping it working for 1 hour, or maybe 1 day, or maybe even a year.  Hey…here is an idea….why not the rest of your life.  Now isn’t that a possibility or moreso a reality. I would first like to point out that social phobia and agoraphobia are not like the usual ("specific") phobia, which is a strong fear response to a specific stimulus.  (For that matter, neither is fear of flying.)   The NLP phobia cure may not be completely successful with social phobia, if at all.  

        Which NLP phobia cure?  Far as I know, there are several.           Myself, I have used kinesthetic swishes very effectively with social phobia (after checking for ecological things, as I believe swishing kinesthetically can lead to problems if not done carefully).         I did the flying one with myself using a visual swish, did it with a client using a visual swish and some future-pacing stuff.         I can’t reclal using the "watching yourself watching yourself in a theatre" one very often – maybe once, with a spider phobia.  Mostly just to see if it worked, which it did.  I really prefer swishing myself – particularly cuz of the generative aspects. My personal opinion is that a very good NLP practitioner would probably be successful in curing social phobia, although it might take several sessions.  However, it’s important to realize that this is not a matter of using some standard technique such as the phobia cure, so the skill and experience of the practitioner will probably be very crucial.

        I would hope that it is NEVER a matter of simply using techniques. Techniques are like brushes and paints, they’re just the tools the artists uses in creating the art. Secondly, I have to say that, unlike for the case of specific phobias, my opinion is not backed by personal experience in dealing with social phobias or reports from other practitioners of successful experience. It’s simply based on the fact that I know that NLP is very good for a lot of other problems, so it ought to be good for this too.

        Try a few, Lee.  They’re not all that difficult.  It’s pretty c00l.         For me, I didn’t have any idea that any phobia was different from any other.  Maybe that’s why I just tried stuff and it worked.  It’s rare that the first thing I try always works, but if ya got an hour or two, that’s plenty of times to run through a few things till you find the one that does.         I’ve even done ‘em online – is amazing how folks will just let ya do therapy on them on the net.  I’ve posted previously both about a kid on a BBS who I lead through his panic attacks upon talking to girls, and also a heights phobia I did with a woman online on an adult BBS.   For this reason, although I would encourage the poster to remain open to the possibility that some day he may find someone who can use NLP to help him, I am reluctant to give him advice that may result in his going to practitioner after practitioner, spending lots of time and emotional energy without finding one who is competent to give him real help.  

        I see your point.  And I disagree.           I know darned well, have no doubt whatsoever, that *I* could fix this d00d’s problem.  I know a number of other folks I would recommend unhesitatingly.  One session most likely, at the most two.         And you, Lee, from what I have read of your posts and some in your archives – I wonder how someone as skilled as you have become can find a way to believe that he might not be able to do this too.  I find that it makes me curious.  Atlanta, GA                      http://www.instatek.com/nlp/

Response:

Standard disclaimers apply.  I’m not a physician, but I’ve been through this stuff and am basing my statements on my experience. Hi All,   Some time ago I was diagnosed as having anxiety, panic attacks and social phobias. Over the past year or so I have been on Clonazepam (1 tablet, twice a day) with some results but I don’t feel I’m cured. As a result, I have been looking into other options, one which has been recommended to me is Sertraline (Zoloft?). As a result, I am going off the Clonazepam (I’m down to half a tablet, once a day) and I am experiencing quite a bit of anxiety/panic, as much as if not more than I originally started with. I have a couple questions regarding the above: 1 – Is this return of anxiety normal?

Yes. 2 – Any chance that it’s just temporary?

Who knows?  Only time will tell.  I wouldn’t count on it, though. 3 – How successful is this Sertralinbe? 4 – Any known long term side effects of Sertraline?

It’s a completely different class of drug.  Clonazepam is a benzodiazepine, which is specifically an anxiolytic.  Zoloft is an antidepressant. Frankly, I found Zoloft completely useless, and I didn’t like the side-effects.  Prozac is much better for me, though I don’t take it now. I’m not sure whether Sertraline is Zoloft or Serzone, but it’s one of them, and I’ve tried both.  Serzone didn’t do anything for me either, but at least there were no side-effects. I’m bipolar, and as far as I can tell, Neurontin is the fruit of the gods.  It’s an anticonvulsant like Tegretol, and it hasn’t even been approved for psychiatric use yet, so I had to sign all these "I will not sue you" papers.  They tell you that it takes so-and-so-many weeks to work, but in my experience, it works fast enough that it could even be used PRN.  One tablet and 30 minutes can pull me out of a very dark depression. 5 – Is Sertraline addictive or can it cause dependancy?

It shouldn’t, but it’s relatively new, of course. 6 – Are there any other options I should consider?

There are lots of other benzos.  Ativan, I’ve found, is much more effective than Klonipin.  Sublingual Ativan is great.  Some people swear by Xanax, which is pretty strong stuff.  With the benzos, though, there’s the potential of getting addicted. Also, there’s a non-benzodiazepine anxiolytic called Buspar.  I took it for a couple of years.  I noticed significant anxiolytic effect for a while, but it wore off.  This is a much more benign drug than the benzos and has no addictive potential.  There’s some evidence that long-term use of Buspar can cause depression, which is why I stopped taking it. There’s also a blood-pressure medication called Enderol which can be very effective in panic for an unusual reason: it stops the physical symptoms. There seems to be a feedback loop involved where the physical symptoms make one even more anxious. It should be noted that I have tried NLP with no luck (actually it was effective for about 30 mins and then I was back to normal),

One thing I’ve found useful was to work myself up (I usually use hypnosis, because it seems to last for a couple of hours, but NLP should be fine) and then go do a challenge.  Once I did the challenge and reverted to normal, I’d celebrate and reward myself. — Eric Pepke Supercomputer Computations Research Institute Florida State University

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Newsgroups: alt.support.anxiety-panic,sci.med.psychobiology,alt.support.depression,alt. support.social-phobia,alt.support.shyness,alt.psychology.nlp,sci.psychology .psychotherapy Followup-To: alt.support.anxiety-panic,sci.med.psychobiology,alt.support.depression,alt. support.social-phobia,alt.support.shyness,alt.psychology.nlp,sci.psychology .psychotherapy Organization: Netcom On-Line Services Distribution: hi Glen,

: Hi All, :   :   Some time ago I was diagnosed as having anxiety, panic attacks and social : phobias. Over the past year or so I have been on Clonazepam (1 tablet, : twice a day) with some results but I don’t feel I’m cured. As a result, I have : been looking into other options, one which has been recommended to me is : Sertraline (Zoloft?). As a result, I am going off the Clonazepam (I’m down to : half a tablet, once a day) and I am experiencing quite a bit of anxiety/panic, : as much as if not more than I originally started with. I have a couple : questions regarding the above: Your anti-anxiety med is working by increasing the sensitivity to some receptors in your brain that bind with GABA.  GABA is an inhibitory neurotransmitter, meaning its use is to inhibit the "firing" of neurons – neurons that have GABA receptors, that is.  Thus it is generally thought of as a "quieting" or "calming" neurotransmitter.  And benzodiazapines enhance those receptors, thereby augmenting the effects of that calming neurotransmitter. Zoloft, on the other hand, is a selective seretonin reuptake inhibitor (as you probably know) and it works by increasing the time that the neurotransmitter seretonin is active in the synapse, and thereby increasing the time that the post-synaptic neuron can be triggered by seretonin.  Seretonin is generally thought to be connected somehow with depression and happiness, and there are studies that show that very aggressive people have lower seretonin activity.  Animal studies show that increases in seretonin are found in the dominant male, and correspondingly that the dominance hierarchy can be changed by increasing the seretonin in an otherwise non-dominant male.  Seretonin increase is also associated with a decrease in REM sleep.  I personally would like more info on this particular feature; it’s my feeling that a decrease in REM will be harmful in the long run, but I also think that anti-depressants do not increase seretonin enough to cause a harmful decrease in REM.  I am not sure, and I’ve not done any literature search but a professor in psychobiology said that she thinks no studies have been done on REM sleep and how it’s affected in people taking an anti-depressant at the usual doses. So, ssri anti-depressants (as well as some tricyclics) are used for panic disorders, especially in children, since traditional anti-anxiety medications are not usually the first choice for kids, due to their psychological withdrawl symptoms (as you are experiencing now.)  I can give you two anecdotes, one about me and one about my daughter.  I had depression with anxiety, and had one panic attack.  I was not given Prozac but was given Zoloft instead, because it’s been said, based on anecdotal evidence, that Prozac can have an anxiety-increasing action in people already prone to anxiety.  I was fine on Zoloft; calm, not depressed, not anxious.  My daughter has panic disorder and post traumatic stress disorder; she’s done wonderfully on both a tricyclic and also on Paxil, another ssri like Prozac and Zoloft which is considered somewhat more calming than Prozac.  However, lately I’m debating whether or not this is the correct medication for her since she has become somewhat manic and is still experiencing anxiety.  She is not acting out as much and is not having any actual panic attacks, but she says she still "feels" anxious and that her "brain" still "talks too much about scary things."   Some people take an anti-depressant and an anti-anxiety at the same time; one suggestion is to add BuSpar for my daughter to hopefully help the anxiety.  BuSpar is in a class of medicines all by itself; it has anti-anxiety properties but it does not work like benzodiazapines.  In fact its exact method is unknown at present time, but that’s not unusual for a relatively new drug. : 1 – Is this return of anxiety normal? Unfortunately, yes.  I hope you are being taken off very slowly? : 2 – Any chance that it’s just temporary? Yes, sure.  As your body adjusts to not having the medicine anymore, you might return to a lower level of anxiety than prior to the start of the medication.  I’ve read that getting off those kinds of meds can be very, very bad and hard.   : 3 – How successful is this Sertralinbe? Ssri’s are considered very effective medicines for depression, and there are some docs that will use them for anything and will report success.  I think there’s no harm at all in giving it a try, to see how it works for you.  Keep in mind that ssri’s can take a very long time to have noticable effects.  I *think* it’s been reported to take, sometimes, a month or even two.  My daughter shaped right up on the 3rd day, but she might have been experiencing some placebo effect. : 4 – Any known long term side effects of Sertraline? The ssri’s are very safe.  They have some side effects that are just nuisances, but that are not dangerous.  As for taking a medication that increases the seretonin in your brain, there are some questions about that.  These questions apply to any anti-depressant, not just to Zoloft.   Your neurons that release seretonin also have receptors that can bind with seretonin; these autoreceptors are believed to function like a feedback loop, giving the neuron information on how much seretonin is needed based on how much it "sees" floating in the synapse.  It’s thought that the autoreceptor would sense the increased seretonin and thereby inform the neuron not to make any more, or at least not to make as much or not to make as much right now.  So basically, it’s not really known whether these anti-depressants are actually increasing seretonin overall or decreasing it.  You need to remember that the medicines only work to increase the time that the seretonin is active in the synapse; they don’t actually increase seretonin production.  So if your neurons aren’t making any, the medicine won’t be increasing the activity. : 5 – Is Sertraline addictive or can it cause dependancy? Well, lots of people have to increase their dose.  It can become ineffective after a while, probably due to what’s described in the above paragraph.  I wish there were studies that showed us how long this takes in the average person…   : 6 – Are there any other options I should consider? Well.  There’s BuSpar, although it’s been said to be less effective on people who’ve already been on another anti-anxiety med.  There’s also beta blockers.  Beta blockers work to block the action of some neurotransmitters, namely norepinephren, seretonin and dopamine.  Those are all "excitatory" neurotransmitters, so beta blockers block that excitment that they would cause.  I haven’t heard of beta blockers being prescribed for chronic anxiety all that much, although they are listed as an option in a few books I have for people who are not getting much relief from other methods.  They can be taken on an as-needed basis; that’s a big benefit if you have certain situations that really make you anxious.  Like, maybe before you need to do anything socially, you could pop a beta blocker?  *smile*  However, it sounds like you need something that works continuously, and I don’t know enough about beta blockers to know if they are ever prescribed in such a manner. You could also try a tricyclic anti-depressant.  Those are older and they work very well, for the most part.  Usually nowadays they are tried after an ssri fails, instead of before an ssri.  They do have slightly worse potential side effects though; they can have cardiac involvement and regular ECG’s are recommended to monitor your heart.  In my daughter’s case, the tricyclic imipramine completely cured her of all her anxiety/ptsd symptoms (I mean, it was like a miracle) but they aggravated a previously minor and insignificant heart problem she had and in fact made the heart problem quite troublesome for a while.  Quitting the medicine did reverse the problem, but I don’t know if all potential cardiac effects are reversable.  ??? : It should be noted that I have tried NLP with no luck (actually it was : effective for about 30 mins and then I was back to normal), group therapy has : not worked thus far (probably because I can’t get into the habit of following : the excercises and doing the homework) although another group has been offered : to me by the Clarke Institute of Psychiatry, and if I can avoid drugs I would : prefer to. That’s a noble standpoint, I think.  Have you tried any desensitization therapy?  I’ve heard that’s the latest thing with phobias and that some people are achieving great success.  The idea, I believe, is to expose yourself (with your therapist’s help and guidance) to increasingly longer involvement with your phobia.  I think it’s got some basis in cognitive work; if you can only re-train your brain to understand that these things that feel like they will kill you, really will not kill you, you supposedly can get some relief.  Maybe that type of work, with the help of a medication, would be possible for you?   One more consideration:  all the benzodiazapines have different characteristics and therefore slightly different experiences in an individual’s body, given the individual’s circumstances and whatnot.   Have you tried any other of the other medicines of this class? Well, just a … read more »

Response:

Hi All,   Some time ago I was diagnosed as having anxiety, panic attacks and social phobias. Over the past year or so I have been on Clonazepam (1 tablet, twice a day) with some results but I don’t feel I’m cured. As a result, I have been looking into other options, one which has been recommended to me is Sertraline (Zoloft?). As a result, I am going off the Clonazepam (I’m down to half a tablet, once a day) and I am experiencing quite a bit of anxiety/panic, as much as if not more than I originally started with. I have a couple questions regarding the above: 1 – Is this return of anxiety normal? 2 – Any chance that it’s just temporary? 3 – How successful is this Sertralinbe? 4 – Any known long term side effects of Sertraline? 5 – Is Sertraline addictive or can it cause dependancy? 6 – Are there any other options I should consider? It should be noted that I have tried NLP with no luck (actually it was effective for about 30 mins and then I was back to normal), group therapy has not worked thus far (probably because I can’t get into the habit of following the excercises and doing the homework) although another group has been offered to me by the Clarke Institute of Psychiatry, and if I can avoid drugs I would prefer to. your time.

Response:

        I just want to start of by saying that I agree wholeheartedly with the person who stated that drug therapy is a crutch.           The notion that brings up for me is that crutches are for crippled people.  And therefore the appropriateness of said crutch would depend mightily on the view the individual took of themselves, whether they saw themselves as broken or not.         I don’t pass judgement on anyone’s self view – I simply do not, personally, see any people as broken.  Those of you who do think you are broken – this post is not for you. For the rest of you, here is a brief story about what works:         Friend of mine had multiple phobias.  Basically, she was raped many years ago, and had panic attacks following the rapes, and the panic got generalized to lots of various things – and all those things ended up acting as anchors – triggering phobic attacks.  Pretty messy stuff.         She tried therapy a few times, but got rather annoyed at the therapists’s insistence on going back to her childhood.  I mean, she knew where the phobias came from, knew why she had them, she just couldn’t get rid of them.         Over time, because she’s a rather strong-willed and stubborn personality, she had gotten rid of a lot of them through a process of gradual desenstiziation that she worked with herself.  Still a lot remained.         So after about two years of me studying NLP and hypnosis, she asked me to work with her on them.  And we did – spent about 1 1/2 hours.         It was fun actually, rather interesting the stuff I learned about how her brain works.  We’d been very close friends for six years, but I hadn’t known what an interesting place her brain is.         She enjoyed it too – said it was completely different than any form of therapy she’d ever heard of, where the therapist’s seem rather determined to make you feel bad stuff from the past again.  She learned a lot about how her brain worked also – and since it’s a highly creative brain, the whole thing was just delightfully entertaining for both of us.         And the phobias… ummm, what phobias?   Oh yeah, there was something about massive phobic reactions being triggered by multiple anchors – I’d almost forgotten.  Well, that’s in the past.  Period.         THAT is what NLP does, when it’s done well, and elegantly, by a highly-skilled and exquisite practicioner.           Or at least, that’s been my experience.  And hers.

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I don’t know if anyone has addressed this yet, but I’ve had success with some of my supervised clientelle using a combination of in vivo desensitization to situational fear hierarchies and limited social skills training.  Of the five clients I have seen with this condition or a combination thereof (i.e., avoidant personality disorder, agoraphobia, etc.), only one was receiving psychopharmicotherapy in conjunction with treatment. David Barlow has an excellent treatment manual that may be useful (Managing Anxiety and Panic), and Zimbardo (1977) has a treatment mileau for the social skills training that I’ve found useful.  I should add that the social skills training is best conducted in a group format. Jeff Browndyke Jeffrey N. Browndyke Ph.D. Student in Medical/Clinical Psychology                     Department of Psychology        Fax: (504) 388-4125 236 Audubon Hall                URL: http://www.premier.net/~cogito   Baton Rouge, LA. 70803           *Neuropsychology Central  -  http://www.premier.net/~cogito/neuropsy.html *Psycresearch-Online – http://www.premier.net/~cogito/psycresearch-online/main.html  

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Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It should be noted that I have tried NLP with no luck (actually it was effective for about 30 mins and then I was back to normal), Just a thought if you are willing to listen. The first time you rode a bike did you succeed 100%??  Or did you try and then have to make another attempt before you rode successfully?? Maybe even several or dozens on attempts!!  Did all go to plan the very first or did you have to see what went right, what went wrong, assess, re-adjust and then take the good bits and try something slightly new to see it that worked better. My point is this.  Discover what is was about NLP that made it work for 30 minutes.  Take that knowledge and work on it….get some new info and try it to see if it works.  Keep building on that.  I’m sure, as much as you also know in yourself, that you will be riding that NLP bike fluently very soon and be over your anxiety.  If it worked to 30 minutes there is NOTHING stopping it working for 1 hour, or maybe 1 day, or maybe even a year.  Hey…here is an idea….why not the rest of your life.  Now isn’t that a possibility or moreso a reality. I would first like to point out that social phobia and agoraphobia are not like the usual ("specific") phobia, which is a strong fear response to a specific stimulus.  (For that matter, neither is fear of flying.)   The NLP phobia cure may not be completely successful with social phobia, if at all.   My personal opinion is that a very good NLP practitioner would probably be successful in curing social phobia, although it might take several sessions.  However, it’s important to realize that this is not a matter of using some standard technique such as the phobia cure, so the skill and experience of the practitioner will probably be very crucial. Secondly, I have to say that, unlike for the case of specific phobias, my opinion is not backed by personal experience in dealing with social phobias or reports from other practitioners of successful experience. It’s simply based on the fact that I know that NLP is very good for a lot of other problems, so it ought to be good for this too. For this reason, although I would encourage the poster to remain open to the possibility that some day he may find someone who can use NLP to help him, I am reluctant to give him advice that may result in his going to practitioner after practitioner, spending lots of time and emotional energy without finding one who is competent to give him real help.   — Only by riveting one’s attention on the past is it possible to prevent those occasional changes of perspective that would reveal that the present offers not only the potential for more unhappiness, but also of un-unhappiness, not to mention something entirely new.  –Paul Watzlawick

That is very interesting….thankyou.  I agree that NLP is not the do all and end all.  As NLP teaches you within itself…..variety and flexibility to new ideas and opinion are a healthy and productive way of living.  Gathering the best information and ideas from all around the world on any topic and study or even just the ear of a friendly person is a new approach that should always be considered.   With a smile, Dean Crabb         "The meeting of Preparation with Oppurtunity generates                      the offspring we call LUCK"

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In our society there is that immediate urge to take a pill and make everything better and, unfortunately, many people are quite disappointed when that doesn’t happen. On the other hand, there are also those who refuse any medication believing it to be nonsense. I used to be very anti-medication. That is, I wanted to be cured of anxiety and depression without any medication at all. Looking back, I see this was a misinformed and stupid attitude. The fact is that the right medication prescribed correctly can be invaluable in getting better. Certainly, one should not rely wholly on medication. Rather it should be a crutch. Jan

        I agree completely with your post. I am using meds (Klonopin & Zoloft, with occasional use of Xanax when immediate relief is necessary) and I also am working with a psychotherapist in individual and group therapy sessions. I think a balanced approach of meds and therapy is good, for me at least.         I was just commenting on the completely med oriented threads and the relative lack of attention to other therapies. I would like to hear more about NLP as I don’t know much about it. There is also EMDR which seems to work for some but is used mostly for PTSD.         I think anyone who has suffered for a significant length of time with panic/phobia, etc., has developed a variety of defence/coping mechanisms which do not disappear when symptoms are reduced with meds. People with SP, myself included, seem to have a difficult time picking up on social cues, with anxiety resulting from a feeling of not quite knowing what is going on. The tendency of SPs to "fill in the blanks" can result in some rather irrational thinking. G.M.

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I used to be very anti-medication. That is, I wanted to be cured of anxiety and depression without any medication at all. Looking back, I see this was a misinformed and stupid attitude. The fact is that the right medication prescribed correctly can be invaluable in getting better. Certainly, one should not rely wholly on medication. Rather it should be a crutch.

I completely agree with you, Jan. For the first year or so of this group’s existence I was scared *stiff* of using benzodiazepines and, as a consequence, was floundering with no treatment at all – neither antidepressants nor psychological treatments having helped me. I was even quite vocal in my concerns about some medications. Eventually, reading what people had to say here changed my mind and I started using Xanax prn. Since then, the change in my life has been little short of miraculous. As you say, meds. are only there to help but, without that help, no behavioural therapy in the world was having any effect at all. Now it is possible to use other therapies because the meds. have given them room to operate. — Gary Cooper

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In our society there is that immediate urge to take a pill and make everything better and, unfortunately, many people are quite disappointed when that doesn’t happen. On the other hand, there are also those who refuse any medication believing it to be nonsense. I used to be very anti-medication. That is, I wanted to be cured of anxiety and depression without any medication at all. Looking back, I see this was a misinformed and stupid attitude. The fact is that the right medication prescribed correctly can be invaluable in getting better. Certainly, one should not rely wholly on medication. Rather it should be a crutch. Jan

Hi Jan, I couldn’t agree with you more… I was anti-medication, big time!!  I spent months on this ng discussing the pros and cons of using meds to help me with my Panic Disorder.  All the time that I was discussing it, I was house bound, unable to do anything out side of my home, and having 4-5 panic attacks a day. I finally found a doctor that specializes in Panic Disorder who prescribed meds for me.  At first I resisted, and wanted to be "cured" without using "drugs."  What a lonely place it is to be so right that I wouldn’t even listen to an expert in the field of PD. I finally, after a few more months, ended up taking Paxil and Klonopin (Clonazepam); I feel like my old self again.  I’m out of the house, going to job interviews, hey, I even go to Wal-Mart  some times (shiver)!!   Taking medications have given me my life back.  I’m still waiting to hear from a therapist (behavioral therapy, I hope), waiting lists are very long in the public and private sector here in Maine.  But once I’ve got a therapist that knows what he/she is doing, and couple that with my meds, and I feel I’ve got half the battle won–the rest is up to me. — Chuck

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In our society there is that immediate urge to take a pill and make everything better and, unfortunately, many people are quite disappointed when that doesn’t happen.

On the other hand, there are also those who refuse any medication believing it to be nonsense. I used to be very anti-medication. That is, I wanted to be cured of anxiety and depression without any medication at all. Looking back, I see this was a misinformed and stupid attitude. The fact is that the right medication prescribed correctly can be invaluable in getting better. Certainly, one should not rely wholly on medication. Rather it should be a crutch. Jan

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It should be noted that I have tried NLP with no luck (actually it was effective for about 30 mins and then I was back to normal), Just a thought if you are willing to listen. The first time you rode a bike did you succeed 100%??  Or did you try and then have to make another attempt before you rode successfully?? Maybe even several or dozens on attempts!!  Did all go to plan the very first or did you have to see what went right, what went wrong, assess, re-adjust and then take the good bits and try something slightly new to see it that worked better. My point is this.  Discover what is was about NLP that made it work for 30 minutes.  Take that knowledge and work on it….get some new info and try it to see if it works.  Keep building on that.  I’m sure, as much as you also know in yourself, that you will be riding that NLP bike fluently very soon and be over your anxiety.  If it worked to 30 minutes there is NOTHING stopping it working for 1 hour, or maybe 1 day, or maybe even a year.  Hey…here is an idea….why not the rest of your life.  Now isn’t that a possibility or moreso a reality.

I would first like to point out that social phobia and agoraphobia are not like the usual ("specific") phobia, which is a strong fear response to a specific stimulus.  (For that matter, neither is fear of flying.)   The NLP phobia cure may not be completely successful with social phobia, if at all.   My personal opinion is that a very good NLP practitioner would probably be successful in curing social phobia, although it might take several sessions.  However, it’s important to realize that this is not a matter of using some standard technique such as the phobia cure, so the skill and experience of the practitioner will probably be very crucial. Secondly, I have to say that, unlike for the case of specific phobias, my opinion is not backed by personal experience in dealing with social phobias or reports from other practitioners of successful experience. It’s simply based on the fact that I know that NLP is very good for a lot of other problems, so it ought to be good for this too. For this reason, although I would encourage the poster to remain open to the possibility that some day he may find someone who can use NLP to help him, I am reluctant to give him advice that may result in his going to practitioner after practitioner, spending lots of time and emotional energy without finding one who is competent to give him real help.   — Only by riveting one’s attention on the past is it possible to prevent those occasional changes of perspective that would reveal that the present offers not only the potential for more unhappiness, but also of un-unhappiness, not to mention something entirely new.  –Paul Watzlawick

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It should be noted that I have tried NLP with no luck (actually it was effective for about 30 mins and then I was back to normal),

Just a thought if you are willing to listen. The first time you rode a bike did you succeed 100%??  Or did you try and then have to make another attempt before you rode successfully?? Maybe even several or dozens on attempts!!  Did all go to plan the very first or did you have to see what went right, what went wrong, assess, re-adjust and then take the good bits and try something slightly new to see it that worked better. My point is this.  Discover what is was about NLP that made it work for 30 minutes.  Take that knowledge and work on it….get some new info and try it to see if it works.  Keep building on that.  I’m sure, as much as you also know in yourself, that you will be riding that NLP bike fluently very soon and be over your anxiety.  If it worked to 30 minutes there is NOTHING stopping it working for 1 hour, or maybe 1 day, or maybe even a year.  Hey…here is an idea….why not the rest of your life.  Now isn’t that a possibility or moreso a reality. Tell me please…..do you have to even think about riding a bike now or does it just come naturally?? All the best….the journey down this road will be easier than you think.  Just get on that bike and start riding one hour at a time. The hours will become days, and the days will become weeks and the weeks will flow smoothly into years.  Start enjoying your new found happiness….now…. Warmest Regards, Dean Crabb           "The meeting of Preparation with Oppurtunity generates                      the offspring we call LUCK"

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Glen: What NLP techniques did you use? Nick – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All,   Some time ago I was diagnosed as having anxiety, panic attacks and social phobias. Over the past year or so I have been on Clonazepam (1 tablet, twice a day) with some results but I don’t feel I’m cured. As a result, I have been looking into other options, one which has been recommended to me is Sertraline (Zoloft?). As a result, I am going off the Clonazepam (I’m down to half a tablet, once a day) and I am experiencing quite a bit of anxiety/panic, as much as if not more than I originally started with. I have a couple questions regarding the above: 1 – Is this return of anxiety normal? 2 – Any chance that it’s just temporary? 3 – How successful is this Sertralinbe? 4 – Any known long term side effects of Sertraline? 5 – Is Sertraline addictive or can it cause dependancy? 6 – Are there any other options I should consider? It should be noted that I have tried NLP with no luck (actually it was effective for about 30 mins and then I was back to normal), group therapy has not worked thus far (probably because I can’t get into the habit of following the excercises and doing the homework) although another group has been offered to me by the Clarke Institute of Psychiatry, and if I can avoid drugs I would prefer to. you for your time.

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It should be noted that I have tried NLP with no luck (actually it was effective for about 30 mins and then I was back to normal), Well, that’s a start, isn’t it? Just because this particular bit of NLP wasn’t permanent doesn’t mean that other attempts won’t be…

what’s nlp?

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It should be noted that I have tried NLP with no luck (actually it was effective for about 30 mins and then I was back to normal),

Well, that’s a start, isn’t it? Just because this particular bit of NLP wasn’t permanent doesn’t mean that other attempts won’t be…

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, just a disclaimer, I am certainly not a doctor nor a therapist; I’m just a 3rd year biological psychology major who’s also done a lot of reading, especially due to my daughter’s condition.  Please please please take everything I say with a healthy dose of skepticism and use it just as a jumping-off place for you to do your own research and/or to ask questions of your doc.  And for a sort of opposite-of-disclaimer, try to make sure your doc knows what she’s/he’s talking about.  I’ve found that the psychiatrists I’ve seen for myself or my daughter have all had somewhat deficient (in my opinion) knowledge about the latest research, including a lack of knowledge even of what’s being reported in the popular media.  Take care of yourself. Cindi

no need for a disclaimer, thank you for the informative post. Don’t forget the "talk therapy" angle on panic/phobia, etc. behavior. You mentioned desensitization, which works for a lot of people, but there are quite a range of psychotherapeutic approaches to the subject. In our society there is that immediate urge to take a pill and make everything better and, unfortunately, many people are quite disappointed when that doesn’t happen.         Again, thank you for the very informative post. G.M.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All,   Some time ago I was diagnosed as having anxiety, panic attacks and social phobias. Over the past year or so I have been on Clonazepam (1 tablet, twice a day) with some results but I don’t feel I’m cured. As a result, I have been looking into other options, one which has been recommended to me is Sertraline (Zoloft?). As a result, I am going off the Clonazepam (I’m down to half a tablet, once a day) and I am experiencing quite a bit of anxiety/panic, as much as if not more than I originally started with. I have a couple questions regarding the above: 1 – Is this return of anxiety normal? 2 – Any chance that it’s just temporary? 3 – How successful is this Sertralinbe? 4 – Any known long term side effects of Sertraline? 5 – Is Sertraline addictive or can it cause dependancy? 6 – Are there any other options I should consider? It should be noted that I have tried NLP with no luck (actually it was effective for about 30 mins and then I was back to normal), group therapy has not worked thus far (probably because I can’t get into the habit of following the excercises and doing the homework) although another group has been offered to me by the Clarke Institute of Psychiatry, and if I can avoid drugs I would prefer to. your time.

I’ll try and answer your questions, as I take both Zoloft and Klonopin (clonazepam). you say you take 1 tablet twice a day but you don’t say what the strength of the tablet is. I take 0.5 mg. three times a day and 200 mg. Zoloft once a day. First let me say that your statement " I have been on clonazepam…with some results…but I don’t feel I’m cured" is odd. Was it promoted to you as a "cure"? I don’t know that there is any cure for social phobia, just medication and cognitive techniques for lessening the symptoms and learning to live with it. 1. yes, the return to an anxious state when reducing an anti-anxiety med is normal. BTW, go off clonazepam *slooowly*. There can be dangerous side-effects when terminating any benzodiazepine quickly. 2.temporary? if you really are socially phobic….not likely. 3. Zoloft? it has been a life-saver (literally) for me in the area of depression, which is what it is generally prescribed for. Some people say that Zoloft also has anti-anxiety properties. I have not found that to be so, though I imagine, some people have. It is quite common to be on an anti-depressant and an anti-anxiety med at the same time. I find that Zoloft increases my anxiety, though not as much as Prozac did. 4. side effects of Zoloft. You can check the PDR for the entire list. The only two I have noticed is lethargy (which has lessened over time) and a longer period of stimulation required to reach orgasm ( which also has lessened over time) Zoloft is a pretty benign drug (as drugs go…they all have side-effects and not everyone has the same ) 5. dependance? No. Not in the least. It is the benzodiazepines (Klonopin, though especially Xanax and Ativan) that are quite addictive. 6. Yes. Find a good Psychiatrist and trust him/her and follow the advice. Also, educate yourself about your condition. Take risks. (like group therapy) Be so interested in your condition that you know more about it than your M.D., be your own therapist, leave no stone unturned…..after all, it’s our lives we’re talking about here, and as far as I know, you only get one. Hope this helps G.M.

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Hi All,   Some time ago I was diagnosed as having anxiety, panic attacks and social phobias. Over the past year or so I have been on Clonazepam (1 tablet, twice a day) with some results but I don’t feel I’m cured. As a result, I have been looking into other options, one which has been recommended to me is Sertraline (Zoloft?). As a result, I am going off the Clonazepam (I’m down to half a tablet, once a day) and I am experiencing quite a bit of anxiety/panic, as much as if not more than I originally started with. I have a couple questions regarding the above: 1 – Is this return of anxiety normal?

It happens quite frequently in the folks I’ve worked with who are in your position. 2 – Any chance that it’s just temporary?

There’s a chance.  My sense is that they work by different mechanisms and that zoloft takes longer to kick in.  Could be that you will continue to experience some anxiety by the quality of the anxiety will be different. 3 – How successful is this Sertralinbe?

I’m not familliar with research using zoloft for these anxiety disorders (not to say there’s none there–just that I haven’t seen it).  I’ve seen it work for OCD which has anxiety as its base…. 4 – Any known long term side effects of Sertraline?

Some people claim that the serotonin receptors become either destroyed or desensitized to 5-HT and thus reducing the efficacy of the meds.  I don’t know if the sexual "problems" associated with prozac are also associated with the other SSRIs. 5 – Is Sertraline addictive or can it cause dependancy?

Probably not in the same way that a benzodiazapine is addictive. 6 – Are there any other options I should consider?

Have you read anything by David Barlow.  His book "Anxiety and its disorders" is a good starting point.  I have had very good luck using traditional behavioral techniques with an emphasis on exposure. Good Luck Mark – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It should be noted that I have tried NLP with no luck (actually it was effective for about 30 mins and then I was back to normal), group therapy has not worked thus far (probably because I can’t get into the habit of following the excercises and doing the homework) although another group has been offered to me by the Clarke Institute of Psychiatry, and if I can avoid drugs I would prefer to. your time.

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