Question:

I know that not gargling after taking inhaled steroids can lead to problems. I was just wondering if taking inhaled steroids and having oral sex could cause a problems too. Would there be an increased chance of getting an infection? Thanks

Response:

I was just wondering if taking inhaled steroids and having oral sex could cause a problems too. Would there be an increased chance of getting an infection?

What kind of infection are you referring to?? Ash http://www.angelfire.com/tn/Ashleigh1976/index.html

Response:

I’m really not sure what kind of infection, I just know that my throat doesn’t feel right and my Asthma gets worse. The doctor says it looks really red and that I could have an infection or just allergies. They usually just give me antibiotics, I don’t think they’ve ever taken a culture.  I asked the question only because the problem seems to occur around the same time I’ve had this kind of activity and I wanted to know if there could be a connection.  Maybe next time I’ll insist that the doctor take a throat culture.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was just wondering if taking inhaled steroids and having oral sex could cause a problems too. Would there be an increased chance of getting an infection? What kind of infection are you referring to?? Ash http://www.angelfire.com/tn/Ashleigh1976/index.html

Response:

Thrush? Now there’s something for the weekend sir!! OUCH OUCH OUCH OUCH OUCH OUCH OUCH OUCH OUCH OUCH OUCH OUCH OUCH OUCH !!!!!!!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was just wondering if taking inhaled steroids and having oral sex could cause a problems too. Would there be an increased chance of getting an infection? What kind of infection are you referring to?? Ash http://www.angelfire.com/tn/Ashleigh1976/index.html

Response:

I’m really not sure what kind of infection, I just know that my throat doesn’t feel right and my Asthma gets worse. The doctor says it looks really red and that I could have an infection or just allergies. They usually just give me antibiotics, I don’t think they’ve ever taken a culture.  I asked the question only because the problem seems to occur around the same time I’ve had this kind of activity and I wanted to know if there could be a connection.  Maybe next time I’ll insist that the doctor take a throat culture.

    Well, the, uh, feminine area is lined with a mucous membrane, just like the throat.  So if you’ve a sore throat, it could be, uh, spread to your paramour.  The other possibility is that your paramour might have a relatively benign infection and be spreading it to you.  Exercise your judgment.

Response:

culture.    Well, the, uh, feminine area is lined with a mucous membrane, just like the throat.  So if you’ve a sore throat, it could be, uh, spread to your paramour.  The other possibility is that your paramour might have a relatively benign infection and be spreading it to you.  Exercise your judgment.

Light Soor is not uncommon for the Vagina, but makes normally no problems May be, there was a transfer, but I thing, this is not a problem of your sex praxis. Fungus is ubiquit

Question:

Just wondering if anyone has tried taking Singulair to treat allergy related sinus congestion.

Response:

I read that it was FDA approved for allergic rhinitis very recently. "Steven Balough" <sbalo…@mail.utexas.edu

wrote in message

news:avlc9n$2kp$1@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Just wondering if anyone has tried taking Singulair to treat allergy

related

sinus congestion.

Response:

Many allergists and ENTs have prescribed it for that for years, even without FDA approval for it ("off-label"). I’ve been prescribed it several times, for rhinitis. Recently I started taking it again. To tell the truth, I’m really not sure if it is helping me at all or not. (Sometimes it’s hard to know. You think–"I might be worse if I wasn’t taking this".) Anyone here noticed definitive results from it? Are there any published controlled double-blind studies on using it for rhinitis? (I guess there would have to be, if in fact the FDA has approved it for that purpose.) Anyone know where one can read the studies? Can’t regular Singulair use over years have negative effects on the liver? What if one takes both Singulair and acetaminophen regularly? "Joy" <n…@nospam.com

wrote in message

news:cy5U9.5794$Qr4.558783@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I read that it was FDA approved for allergic rhinitis very recently. > "Steven Balough" <sbalo…@mail.utexas.edu

wrote in message

> news:avlc9n$2kp$1@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu… > > Just wondering if anyone has tried taking Singulair to treat allergy > related > > sinus congestion.

Response:

Question:

(I asked this question a few days ago but it was buried in a longer post and I received no responses here.) I’d like to know what those of you who take both Singulair and Allegra/Claritin/Zyrtec do in terms of timing your medications – do you take them together or have you found it more effective to stagger them? I just added Singulair to my regime. Since they treat different things related to allergies, I expect it wouldn’t make much, if any, difference, but I’m curious to know if it has made a difference for anyone here.  I have HEPA filters in my home therefore fewer problems with allergies overnight than during the day, so I’m currently taking both Singulair and Allegra/180 when I get up in the morning in order to have maximum effect when I’m out of the house during the day. Thanks in advance. -S-

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (I asked this question a few days ago but it was buried in a longer post and I received no responses here.) I’d like to know what those of you who take both Singulair and Allegra/Claritin/Zyrtec do in terms of timing your medications – do you take them together or have you found it more effective to stagger them? I just added Singulair to my regime. Since they treat different things related to allergies, I expect it wouldn’t make much, if any, difference, but I’m curious to know if it has made a difference for anyone here.  I have HEPA filters in my home therefore fewer problems with allergies overnight than during the day, so I’m currently taking both Singulair and Allegra/180 when I get up in the morning in order to have maximum effect when I’m out of the house during the day. Thanks in advance. -S-

A side-effect of Singulair can be weird, vivid dreams.  Because of this some people have posted saying they have started taking the Singulair in the morning.

Response:

A study presented at the latest AAAI meeting indicated that if you were on Singulair, you no longer need Claritin. My own personal experience though was when I tried to go without Zyrtec, the sneezing fits I had under control returned. My internet buddy in Texas has also returned to using both.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (I asked this question a few days ago but it was buried in a longer post and I received no responses here.) I’d like to know what those of you who take both Singulair and Allegra/Claritin/Zyrtec do in terms of timing your medications – do you take them together or have you found it more effective to stagger them? I just added Singulair to my regime. Since they treat different things related to allergies, I expect it wouldn’t make much, if any, difference, but I’m curious to know if it has made a difference for anyone here.  I have HEPA filters in my home therefore fewer problems with allergies overnight than during the day, so I’m currently taking both Singulair and Allegra/180 when I get up in the morning in order to have maximum effect when I’m out of the house during the day. Thanks in advance. -S-

Response:

Mabye it’s just psychosomatic (sp?), but when I take Claritin my allergy problems clear up, and I take Singulair every night.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A study presented at the latest AAAI meeting indicated that if you were on Singulair, you no longer need Claritin. My own personal experience though was when I tried to go without Zyrtec, the sneezing fits I had under control returned. My internet buddy in Texas has also returned to using both. (I asked this question a few days ago but it was buried in a longer post and I received no responses here.) I’d like to know what those of you who take both Singulair and Allegra/Claritin/Zyrtec do in terms of timing your medications – do you take them together or have you found it more effective to stagger them? I just added Singulair to my regime. Since they treat different things related to allergies, I expect it wouldn’t make much, if any, difference, but I’m curious to know if it has made a difference for anyone here.  I have HEPA filters in my home therefore fewer problems with allergies overnight than during the day, so I’m currently taking both Singulair and Allegra/180 when I get up in the morning in order to have maximum effect when I’m out of the house during the day. Thanks in advance. -S-

Response:

Question:

I know this is a common subject, but hot flashes are driving me nuts.  They started near the end of chemo. I have about 20 a day.  I have tried natural progesterone cream.  I was interested in black cohosh, but after reading on the internet that it is "estrogen-like", I am afraid of it.  My lump was ER+. I have been using the progesterone cream for 3 weeks.  I have seen absolutely no abatement of the hot flashes with this. Does anyone have any ideas?  Is there anything which works but does not increase the chances of recurrence? thanks, nana

Response:

" Does anyone have any ideas?  Is there anything which works but does not increase the chances of recurrence?

Hi Nana, It’s my understanding that a Effexor, an antidepressant, is used to help hot flashes.  I was diagnosed almost twenty years ago and completed a year of CMF chemo a year after diagnosis.  The chemo induced a premature menopause and with it came the hot flashes.  They abated a bit for quite a few years, but are back now (probably coinciding with the time of my natural menopause).  I haven’t asked my Dr. about the Effexor because I know that the antidepressants come with some side effects.  While I hate the hot flashes, I’ll put up with them over the possible side effects of a tricyclic antidepressant.  Good luck to you! Barb

Response:

I was interested in black cohosh, but after reading on the internet that it is "estrogen-like", I am afraid of it.  My lump was ER+.

Susan Love debunks this on her site: http://www.susanlovemd.com/community/flashes/hotflash030725.htm

Response:

Barb, I think Effexor is not a tricyclic antidepressant. I believe it works in a similar way to the ‘new’ antidepressants like Prozac.  The older tricyclics have some unpleasant side effects but I understand that the new antidepressants are relatively free of significant side effects.  With Effexor, the main problems seem to be nausea, sweating and insomnia but I know that these don’t affect everybody and I suppose the severity must be related to the dose. My wife couldn’t tolerate these drugs after her chemo and she had to put up with the hot flashes.  However, I know people who get along just fine with Effexor and it is a great help to them.  It would be a shame if anybody had to suffer unnecessarily because of concerns about Effexor side effects. Some people don’t have any side effects at all. I know a lot of people don’t like the thought of taking antidepressants and it’s certainly not for me to say they are right or wrong.  However, if these drugs can help with the hot flashes, some might consider it worthwhile to speak to their doctor. Best wishes to you, Richard

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – " Does anyone have any ideas?  Is there anything which works but does not increase the chances of recurrence? Hi Nana, It’s my understanding that a Effexor, an antidepressant, is used to help hot flashes.  I was diagnosed almost twenty years ago and completed a year of CMF chemo a year after diagnosis.  The chemo induced a premature menopause and with it came the hot flashes.  They abated a bit for quite a few years, but are back now (probably coinciding with the time of my natural menopause).  I haven’t asked my Dr. about the Effexor because I know that the antidepressants come with some side effects.  While I hate the hot flashes, I’ll put up with them over the possible side effects of a tricyclic antidepressant.  Good luck to you! Barb

Response:

Hi Nana, I don’t know if this is true for all but whenever  I ate foods with sugar I would get an almost immediate hot flash.  Avoiding those foods helped a great deal.  Then, if and when I did get one I tried to ride it through like a wave on the ocean.  Doing that me feel like I had some sense of control and that helped, too. Do hope these are lessened for you—take care…

Response:

I had unbearable hot flashes after CMF-induced chemopause at age 43.  Every 20-30 minutes,  24/7, dripping sweat on the floor….  I tried the yam cream (no help), clonidine patches (wouldn’t stick I sweat so much)- finally my onc tried Effexor XR– I got almost immediate relief (I take 75 mg in the AM)  The major side effect is that it can raise your blood pressure.  I have zero side effects.  jeannette

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I know this is a common subject, but hot flashes are driving me nuts. They started near the end of chemo. I have about 20 a day.  I have tried natural progesterone cream.  I was interested in black cohosh, but after reading on the internet that it is "estrogen-like", I am afraid of it.  My lump was ER+. I have been using the progesterone cream for 3 weeks.  I have seen absolutely no abatement of the hot flashes with this. Does anyone have any ideas?  Is there anything which works but does not increase the chances of recurrence? thanks, nana

Response:

I am a little nervous.  I reviewed my pathology report and remembered that my lump was both ER+ and PR+.  I have been using the natural progesterone cream for 3 weeks.  Do you think this could have caused a problem? I am not going to use any more "natural" methods such as progesterone cream or black cohosh.  Black Cohosh is estrogen like and therefore could possibly encourage tumor growth.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I know this is a common subject, but hot flashes are driving me nuts. They started near the end of chemo. I have about 20 a day.  I have tried natural progesterone cream.  I was interested in black cohosh, but after reading on the internet that it is "estrogen-like", I am afraid of it.  My lump was ER+. I have been using the progesterone cream for 3 weeks.  I have seen absolutely no abatement of the hot flashes with this. Does anyone have any ideas?  Is there anything which works but does not increase the chances of recurrence? thanks, nana

Response:

Barb, I think Effexor is not a tricyclic antidepressant. I believe it works in a similar way to the ‘new’ antidepressants like Prozac.

You are correct; Effexor is a selective serotonin reuptake inhibiter (SSRI).  As with any drug, it may have unwanted side effects, but is generally better tolerated than the tricyclics (which aren’t that bad for many people).  Clonidine (Catapres(R)), an alpha adrenergic blocker usually used for blood pressure control helps some folks, as does Bellergal or similar mixtures, evening primrose oil, and vitamin E.  I think the SSRIs are currently preferred.  Zoloft and Effexor are both good. Both can be associated with either weight gain or loss; Effexor is a little more likely to cause weight loss than gain, while most of the others cause gain more frequently than loss. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The older tricyclics have some unpleasant side effects but I understand that the new antidepressants are relatively free of significant side effects.  With Effexor, the main problems seem to be nausea, sweating and insomnia but I know that these don’t affect everybody and I suppose the severity must be related to the dose. My wife couldn’t tolerate these drugs after her chemo and she had to put up with the hot flashes.  However, I know people who get along just fine with Effexor and it is a great help to them.  It would be a shame if anybody had to suffer unnecessarily because of concerns about Effexor side effects. Some people don’t have any side effects at all. I know a lot of people don’t like the thought of taking antidepressants and it’s certainly not for me to say they are right or wrong.  However, if these drugs can help with the hot flashes, some might consider it worthwhile to speak to their doctor. Best wishes to you, Richard " Does anyone have any ideas?  Is there anything which works but does not increase the chances of recurrence? Hi Nana, It’s my understanding that a Effexor, an antidepressant, is used to help hot flashes.  I was diagnosed almost twenty years ago and completed a year of CMF chemo a year after diagnosis.  The chemo induced a premature menopause and with it came the hot flashes.  They abated a bit for quite a few years, but are back now (probably coinciding with the time of my natural menopause).  I haven’t asked my Dr. about the Effexor because I know that the antidepressants come with some side effects.  While I hate the hot flashes, I’ll put up with them over the possible side effects of a tricyclic antidepressant.  Good luck to you! Barb

Response:

Thanks for the correction.  I knew when I wrote it that it didn’t look right, and should have known better.  My daughter took many, many of the SSRI’s a couple of years ago for postpartum depression.  She had a hard time finding the right one and did have significant side effects with this category of drugs.  That doesn’t mean that another person would have the same.  I just prefer to put up with the hot flashes rather than risk the possible side effects.  It’s great when a person gets the optimum benefit with few of the hassles, isn’t it?  Thanks again for clearing my "boo-boo". Barb

Response:

Hi, Nana:     I must be one of the weird ones. I have the hot flashes, but I love the blinkin’ things — first time I’ve been warm in years.     I was also ER+. Nonetheless, when I started having the hot flashes, by onc offered to put me on an estrogen ring which would emit just enough estrogen to keep the hot flashes down but not enough to exacerbate the cancer. I didn’t take it because, as I said, I’m crazy and love my hot flashes.     If any body here would have an answer for you, it would be Tim. As far as I’m concerned, he’s our guru. But I wouldn’t take anything without talking first with your oncologist. Until you do, grab a fan and ice water, girlfriend! I wish I could take your flashes for you. I only get them every 3 minutes!     Hugs,         Mary K

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am a little nervous.  I reviewed my pathology report and remembered that my lump was both ER+ and PR+.  I have been using the natural progesterone cream for 3 weeks.  Do you think this could have caused a problem? I am not going to use any more "natural" methods such as progesterone cream or black cohosh.  Black Cohosh is estrogen like and therefore could possibly encourage tumor growth. I know this is a common subject, but hot flashes are driving me nuts. They started near the end of chemo. I have about 20 a day.  I have tried natural progesterone cream.  I was interested in black cohosh, but after reading on the internet that it is "estrogen-like", I am afraid of it.  My lump was ER+. I have been using the progesterone cream for 3 weeks.  I have seen absolutely no abatement of the hot flashes with this. Does anyone have any ideas?  Is there anything which works but does not increase the chances of recurrence? thanks, nana

Response:

I don’t really know very much about this.  I would certainly think that progesterone cream was a bad idea if the cancer is PR+, however the effect on potential tumours is relatively long term, so I doubt that 3 weeks has caused a problem. With regard to Black Cohosh and its ilk, there seem to be differing opinions, and the research results seem to be uncertain.  One obviously wants to minimise estrogen activity, but to replace the function of estrogen in -parts- of the body.  So the fact that it is estrogen-like is not necessarily a bad thing, it depends on the specific effects on breast cancer tissue, ie which particular estrogen receptors it can bind to.  After all Tamoxifen is estrogen-like in that it binds to estrogen receptors, but of course having done so it dos not activate them. I wouldn’t rule it out yet, but I’d read up on the latest research before using it, and of course consult with your oncologist before prescribing yourself anything, ‘natural’ or otherwise. Tim Jackson – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     If any body here would have an answer for you, it would be Tim. I am a little nervous.  I reviewed my pathology report and remembered that my lump was both ER+ and PR+.  I have been using the natural progesterone cream for 3 weeks.  Do you think this could have caused a problem? I am not going to use any more "natural" methods such as progesterone cream or black cohosh.  Black Cohosh is estrogen like and therefore could possibly encourage tumor growth.

Response:

Too bad the abstract didn’t list WHICH Vit. E — there are four, each with it’s own individual properties. Lady8

Response:

<< Too bad the abstract didn’t list WHICH Vit. E — there are four, each with it’s own individual properties. Lady8   I don’t know that much about vitamins but do think we need to be cautious about anything out-of-the norm that we opt to take.  One important fact about vitamins and supplements–they are considered dietary aids and are under different regulations for manufacture than medications.  What is contained and what the label states is contained do not have to be the same.  Because they are considered ‘dietary,’ they are allowed some leeway in that regard.  So, if decides to take them it is good to ascertain whether or not the company that you are getting them from guarantees that the ingredients and % of amounts are accurate.  Some vitamin manufacturers, however, do guarantee that their products and labels are accurate  even though they are not required to do so (state that they are guaranteed, accurate, or even be accurate).

Response:

Dee wrote <<   The Vitamin E worked to reduce the severity and made the flashes tolerable.  I was surprised at a doctor making that suggestion. I really don’t know alot about vitamins but there appear to be mixed reviews on whether they are or aren’t good for those with breast cancer. "http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/htbin-post/Entrez/query?uid=11807780&form… b=m&Dopt=r "1: Int J Cancer 2002 Feb 10;97(5):574-9 Oxidant-antioxidant status in relation to survival among breast cancer patients. Saintot M, Mathieu-Daude H, Astre C, Grenier J, Simony-Lafontaine J, Gerber M. Centre de Recherche en Cancerologie, INSERM-CRLCC, Val D’Aurelle, Parc Euromedecine, Montpellier, France. The role of plasma oxidant-antioxidant status in survival after breast cancer surgery was investigated in a cohort of patients (n = 363) hospitalized in Southern France between 1989 and 1992. The median follow-up was 8 years after surgery for histologically confirmed breast cancer. Plasma analyses were performed after diagnosis and before surgery and adjuvant therapy. We found an inverse relationship between plasma lipoperoxides (MDA) and tumor size at diagnosis, together with higher lipoperoxide levels in node-negative tumors than in node-positive ones (TNM). The longitudinal approach revealed an increased risk of recurrence for patients with plasma lipoperoxides in the highest tertile of the sample (RR = 2.1, 95% CI 1.1-4.0). In addition, the risk of recurrence increased (RR = 1.7, 95%CI 1.0-3.0), after adjustment for the known prognostic factors (TNM), for patients with plasma lipid-adjusted vitamin E levels of over 22 micromol/l. The risk of breast cancer death was twice as great for patients with plasma lipid-adjusted vitamin E levels above this value. Excesses of plasma lipoperoxides and vitamin E appear to be factors in poor prognosis for breast cancer-specific survival (OVS) and disease-free survival (DFS), respectively, independent of tumor characteristics at diagnosis. Several hypotheses are advanced to explain the possible role of plasma vitamin E as a factor in poor prognosis for survival. Copyright 2001 Wiley-Liss, Inc. MeSH Terms: *       Adult *       Aged *       Aged, 80 and over *       Antioxidants/metabolism* *       Biological Markers/blood *       Breast Neoplasms/surgery *       Breast Neoplasms/secondary *       Breast Neoplasms/mortality* *       Breast Neoplasms/metabolism* *       Carcinoma, Infiltrating Duct/surgery *       Carcinoma, Infiltrating Duct/secondary *       Carcinoma, Infiltrating Duct/metabolism* *       Carcinoma, Infiltrating Duct/epidemiology *       Carcinoma, Intraductal, Noninfiltrating/surgery *       Carcinoma, Intraductal, Noninfiltrating/metabolism* *       Carcinoma, Intraductal, Noninfiltrating/epidemiology *       Carcinoma, Lobular/surgery *       Carcinoma, Lobular/secondary *       Carcinoma, Lobular/metabolism* *       Carcinoma, Lobular/epidemiology *       Cholesterol/blood *       Cohort Studies *       Disease-Free Survival *       Female *       Follow-Up Studies *       France/epidemiology *       Human *       Lipid Peroxides/blood *       Longitudinal Studies *       Lymphatic Metastasis *       Middle Age *       Neoplasm Recurrence, Local *       Oxidants/blood* *       Receptors, Estrogen/metabolism *       Survival Rate Substances: *       Cholesterol *       Receptors, Estrogen *       Oxidants *       Lipid Peroxides *       Biological Markers *       Antioxidants PMID: 11807780 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]"

Response:

Interesting.  I suppose I could learn.  No I hadn’t heard of that either One might theorise about the tissue’s response to T which makes it ineffective after five years.  Something like preferentially breeding cell lines which are resistant to T.  Perhaps a similar effect occurs in other tissues and maybe that can cause a withdrawal effect when you stop. Do you know which arm of ATAC you were on, or is it totally blind? Tim

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t really know very much about this. Well perhaps you know something about this: In late June I finished the five year course of the ATAC programme (Arimidex, Tamoxifen, Alone or Combined). About two weeks after that I had a hot flush (being English – it’s what we say!) The incidents have increased, now I have them two or three times a day. Might there be a link? Mary (not due to menopause, that was fourteen years ago!)

Response:

Interesting.  I suppose I could learn.  No I hadn’t heard of that either One might theorise about the tissue’s response to T which makes it ineffective after five years.  Something like preferentially breeding cell lines which are resistant to T.  Perhaps a similar effect occurs in other tissues and maybe that can cause a withdrawal effect when you stop. Do you know which arm of ATAC you were on, or is it totally blind?

Totally blind. No clues at all. No-one knows. As I said, it might not be related but the co-incidence at my age might be significant. As you said, it’s interesting Mary – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Tim I don’t really know very much about this. Well perhaps you know something about this: In late June I finished the five year course of the ATAC programme (Arimidex, Tamoxifen, Alone or Combined). About two weeks after that I had a hot flush (being English – it’s what we say!) The incidents have increased, now I have them two or three times a day. Might there be a link? Mary (not due to menopause, that was fourteen years ago!)

Response:

My problem is I don’t understand what mechanism causes the hot flushes.  I understand that they happen in estrogen withdrawal, but I don’t know why. My thinking about Tamoxifen resistance is that most of our body tissues are constantly slowly being renewed, especially those in which cancer can occur. So if we change the regime of growth factors in which this happen we prevent the cell lines which are promoted by the particular growth factor, in this case estrogen, from being replaced as they die out, and cell lines which use other mechanisms become prevalent.  Pure Darwin.  And so the tissue becomes refractory to the drug.  We know the cells have the potential to use different growth factors because we get cancers which do.  This mechanism would equally apply to aromatase inhibitors, it is directly dependent on the absence of estrogen stimulation however caused and exactly parallels the cancer suppression. If this is the mechanism then one would expect the incidence of ER+ cancers to have fallen immediately the drug was introduced, to a plateau where it would pretty much stay even after the drug was eventually withdrawn, but the incidence of ER- cancers would have slowly risen because of the increased proportion of non-estrogen dependent cell lines (but of course not by as much as the ER+ fell, because they are the prevalent cancer).  Another prediction of the model is that if a woman who was post 5 years Tamoxifen took estrogen therapy, or became pregnant, her breasts would not enlarge as much as they normally do. In this scenario it is clear that the reintroduction of estrogen would do -something- although it would have little effect on breast tissue growth. It should for example still inhibit osteoclasts (bone removal cells), as the removal of an inhibition would not have suppressed cell line evolution.  If I understood how estrogen withdrawal actually causes spurious fluctuations in the temperature control system, then maybe I could use this model to explain a similar effect on reintroduction. Tim Jackson – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – One might theorise about the tissue’s response to T which makes it ineffective after five years. In late June I finished the five year course of the ATAC programme (Arimidex, Tamoxifen, Alone or Combined). About two weeks after that I had a hot flush (being English – it’s what we say!)

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My problem is I don’t understand what mechanism causes the hot flushes.  I understand that they happen in estrogen withdrawal, but I don’t know why. My thinking about Tamoxifen resistance is that most of our body tissues are constantly slowly being renewed, especially those in which cancer can occur. So if we change the regime of growth factors in which this happen we prevent the cell lines which are promoted by the particular growth factor, in this case estrogen, from being replaced as they die out, and cell lines which use other mechanisms become prevalent.  Pure Darwin.  And so the tissue becomes refractory to the drug.  We know the cells have the potential to use different growth factors because we get cancers which do.  This mechanism would equally apply to aromatase inhibitors, it is directly dependent on the absence of estrogen stimulation however caused and exactly parallels the cancer suppression.

Um. I -think- I understand some of that … If this is the mechanism then one would expect the incidence of ER+ cancers to have fallen immediately the drug was introduced, to a plateau where it would pretty much stay even after the drug was eventually withdrawn, but the incidence of ER- cancers would have slowly risen because of the increased proportion of non-estrogen dependent cell lines (but of course not by as much as the ER+ fell, because they are the prevalent cancer).  Another prediction of the model is that if a woman who was post 5 years Tamoxifen took estrogen therapy, or became pregnant, her breasts would not enlarge as much as they normally do.

Mine was ER+, I -think- that’s comforting … In this scenario it is clear that the reintroduction of estrogen would do -something- although it would have little effect on breast tissue growth. It should for example still inhibit osteoclasts (bone removal cells), as the removal of an inhibition would not have suppressed cell line evolution.

As I -think- I unerstand that it suggests that I should have estrogen re-introduced – although perhaps I’m still producing my own. I was tested post menopausally be pre-cancer diagnosis and told I had an excess of estrogen. If I understood how estrogen withdrawal actually causes spurious fluctuations in the temperature control system, then maybe I could use this model to explain a similar effect on reintroduction.

Of course I only started the flushes at menopause but all my life I’ve been a hot and sweaty person. Still am. I sweat in bed while Spouse shivers, he’s always warmed himself on me. Today I’m in shorts and T-shirt (not a pretty sight but I’m comfortable). He’s in jeans and sweat shirt. He says it’s because his thermostat works and mine doesn’t Mary – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Tim Jackson One might theorise about the tissue’s response to T which makes it ineffective after five years. In late June I finished the five year course of the ATAC programme (Arimidex, Tamoxifen, Alone or Combined). About two weeks after that I had a hot flush (being English – it’s what we say!)

Response:

No one has mentioned Vitamin E pills?  Tthe gyn recommended trying it and said there were prescription drugs that might help, if it didn’t.  The Vitamin E worked to reduce the severity and made the flashes tolerable.  I was surprised at a doctor making that suggestion. Also, don’t some people call them "power surges."

I know this is a common subject, but hot flashes are driving me nuts.  They started near the end of chemo. I have about 20 a day.  I have tried natural progesterone cream.  I was interested in black cohosh, but after reading on the internet that it is "estrogen-like", I am afraid of it.  My lump was ER+. I have been using the progesterone cream for 3 weeks.  I have seen absolutely no abatement of the hot flashes with this. Does anyone have any ideas?  Is there anything which works but does not increase the chances of recurrence? thanks, nana

Response:

No one has mentioned Vitamin E pills?  Tthe gyn recommended trying it and said there were prescription drugs that might help, if it didn’t.  The Vitamin E worked to reduce the severity and made the flashes tolerable.  I was surprised at a doctor making that suggestion. Also, don’t some people call them "power surges."

LOL! I’ll try to remember that Mary

Response:

Yeah, they do call them power surges! Believe me, my power *really* surges, too!! I do take the Vitamin E. 2,000IU per day. It also is supposed to help the mind and is recommended often for Alzheimer’s patients. I must be hopeless: I still have the hot flashes BIG time. My husband has the Alzheimer’s disease and he does seem to be doing pretty well. I, on the other hand, forget where I put my car keys, checkbook, etc. Mary K

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – No one has mentioned Vitamin E pills?  Tthe gyn recommended trying it and said there were prescription drugs that might help, if it didn’t.  The Vitamin E worked to reduce the severity and made the flashes tolerable.  I was surprised at a doctor making that suggestion. Also, don’t some people call them "power surges." I know this is a common subject, but hot flashes are driving me nuts. They started near the end of chemo. I have about 20 a day.  I have tried natural progesterone cream.  I was interested in black cohosh, but after reading on the internet that it is "estrogen-like", I am afraid of it.  My lump was ER+. I have been using the progesterone cream for 3 weeks.  I have seen absolutely no abatement of the hot flashes with this. Does anyone have any ideas?  Is there anything which works but does not increase the chances of recurrence? thanks, nana

Response:

the reintroduction of estrogen would… for example still inhibit osteoclasts (bone removal cells) As I -think- I unerstand that it suggests that I should have estrogen re-introduced – although perhaps I’m still producing my own. I was tested post menopausally be pre-cancer diagnosis and told I had an excess of estrogen.

Yes. I wouldn’t advocate adding to what you already produce yourself.  That shouldn’t have changed. Of course I only started the flushes at menopause but all my life I’ve been a hot and sweaty person. Still am. I sweat in bed while Spouse shivers, he’s always warmed himself on me. Today I’m in shorts and T-shirt (not a pretty sight but I’m comfortable). He’s in jeans and sweat shirt. He says it’s because his thermostat works and mine doesn’t

Yes, this is the fascinating bit.  I know everyone’s thermostat is different and it depends on body weight and things, and it probably has something to do with fat metabolism, and so does (aromatase) estrogen production, but I can’t quite see the connection all the same. Tim

Response:

I don’t really know very much about this.

Well perhaps you know something about this: In late June I finished the five year course of the ATAC programme (Arimidex, Tamoxifen, Alone or Combined). About two weeks after that I had a hot flush (being English – it’s what we say!) The incidents have increased, now I have them two or three times a day. Might there be a link? Mary (not due to menopause, that was fourteen years ago!)

Response:

Question:

:Sometimes my youngest didn’t and I was called (as I had :instructed) on the intercom and then brought him with me to class and :did my work with him on my lap, being completely happy (meaning both of :us )   They still have happy memories of this, young as they were… This is so sweet Philip! You are a gentle, kind Father!! Jackie ~*~Let your life lightly dance on the edges of time like dew on the tip of a leaf~*~    ~Rabindranath Tagore~

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : I’m lucky to have a very, very patient husband who listens to me ramble.  My hair dresser :was sweet too, she tried so hard to relax me.  I got back to the daycare in under an hour.  He was :sitting with the other kids at the table eating a cookie, looking so content and happy.  He didn’t :freak and lift his arms for me to pick him or anything, he sat there and finally wanted down to play n the rocking horse!!!  She said he didn’t fuss or cry or anything after I left.  I’m so relieved. :I was only gone an hour and he is 17 months old but was it ever hard!  She was so impressed with :what a well behaved content little guy he is. Dear Annette, sounds like you are handling it well I remember my childrens "first" days in pre-school, it was so hard to leave them there. Seeing how much they enjoyed it made me know I did the right thing. It`s good for Nick to interact with other children and adults and it is also good for you to have a break now and them. Take advantage of the this little time you get for yourself. I hope life calms down for you soon {{{{{Annette}}}}} Jackie

When my children were that age (there is 1 1/2 year between them) I taught at art school two days a week. They had a lovely daycare there and I cycled first with my oldest and later with both to art school, brought them to daycare and went to my class. It was great. They loved it there. Sometimes my youngest didn’t and I was called (as I had instructed) on the intercom and then brought him with me to class and did my work with him on my lap, being completely happy (meaning both of us )   They still have happy memories of this, young as they were… Philip. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

: I’m lucky to have a very, very patient husband who listens to me ramble.  My hair dresser :was sweet too, she tried so hard to relax me.  I got back to the daycare in under an hour.  He was :sitting with the other kids at the table eating a cookie, looking so content and happy.  He didn’t :freak and lift his arms for me to pick him or anything, he sat there and finally wanted down to play n the rocking horse!!!  She said he didn’t fuss or cry or anything after I left.  I’m so relieved. :I was only gone an hour and he is 17 months old but was it ever hard!  She was so impressed with :what a well behaved content little guy he is. Dear Annette, sounds like you are handling it well I remember my childrens "first" days in pre-school, it was so hard to leave them there. Seeing how much they enjoyed it made me know I did the right thing. It`s good for Nick to interact with other children and adults and it is also good for you to have a break now and them. Take advantage of the this little time you get for yourself. I hope life calms down for you soon {{{{{Annette}}}}} Jackie ~*~Let your life lightly dance on the edges of time like dew on the tip of a leaf~*~    ~Rabindranath Tagore~

Response:

Glad the daycare went well for Nick, Annette! Chip

I’ve had an anxiety filled last little while.  My sister’s ex-boyfriend

has been threatening and physically assaulting her and my niece, I’m so worried for them.  Tony

left town to go fishing until Sunday and Nick had his first session at daycare today.  There have been

reports of a cougar in our area this week.  We have pot-bellied pigs and goats, dogs and cats and the

neighbours horses on our 10 acres, all cougar bate except for the horses, I’ve heard cougars will

avoid them.  And, just now, coyotes were howling in the field below. Well, daycare went just fine although I was a wreck, I didn’t bawl.  I got

my haircut with my cell phone clenched in my fist, no call, all was well.  We loaded Nick up in

his stroller for a walk to distract him and I said goodbye.  He waved and said bye-bye and I left.  I

talked the ear off my hair dresser, trying to not think about how awful I felt.  I tend to talk fast and a lot when anxious.  I’m lucky to have a very, very patient husband who listens to me

ramble.  My hair dresser was sweet too, she tried so hard to relax me.  I got back to the daycare

in under an hour.  He was sitting with the other kids at the table eating a cookie, looking so

content and happy.  He didn’t freak and lift his arms for me to pick him or anything, he sat there and

finally wanted down to play on the rocking horse!!!  She said he didn’t fuss or cry or anything after

I left.  I’m so relieved. I was only gone an hour and he is 17 months old but was it ever hard!  She

was so impressed with what a well behaved content little guy he is. Tony got away yesterday ok and is having a great time fishing (a past time

I’ve yet to understand). I drove just south of here yesterday afternoon to visit my niece.  It was

absolutely wonderful to see her!!  I think she thought I was my sister.  She wanted me when she tripped and hit her forehead, much to Grandma’s and Nicolas’ dismay.  Poor baby wants her

Momma but she’s still in Alberta, making plans to move south soon. I’m still taking Effexor XR 150 mgs a day and am feeling really well.

Also, I take Klonopin and Xanax as needed, which is less often now that the Effexor has kicked in. I’ve been MIA here for the last little while.  Nervous about being

attacked for whatever reason (mostly because I’m taking medication and nursing).  But, for my own

sanity and ASAP’s health, I – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – need to post and reply and ignore the crap. Hugs,  Annette — annette’s pics http://www3.telus.net/ta-palmer/ Baby Nicolas’ Section http://www3.telus.net/ta-palmer/nick.htm

Response:

Annette, Nick is such a trouper! It’s great that he was so comfortable at daycare. This is a big milestone for you both; congratulations. And you did fine, cell phone and all.  :-) It’s weird…. early this morning before I fully awoke, I had a dream about a cougar. Isn’t that funny? I have no idea why a cougar was in my dream repertoire today… and I get online and read that you are worried about cougars in your area. I hope all your animals stay safe from the predators. Great to hear an update from you; keep up your good progress, and enjoy that little boy of yours. xxoo Anne

Response:

Annette!  That’s an awful lot of stress you’ve been under lately.  I think you did extremely well under the circumstances.  I talk fast and a lot too when I’m really scared or anxious.  I’m so glad your sister is moving.  Nick sounds so cute!  I knew he would like the kids there.  I don’t know why, just a feeling.  I’m really glad that all worked out.  I hope they catch the cougar!  All we have to worry about here are the raccoons living under our shed.  <g  {{{{{Annette}}}}}  Please keep us updated on your sister and other things when you can. Love, Di

I’ve had an anxiety filled last little while.  My sister’s ex-boyfriend

has been threatening and physically assaulting her and my niece, I’m so worried for them.  Tony

left town to go fishing until Sunday and Nick had his first session at daycare today.  There have been

reports of a cougar in our area this week.  We have pot-bellied pigs and goats, dogs and cats and the

neighbours horses on our 10 acres, all cougar bate except for the horses, I’ve heard cougars will

avoid them.  And, just now, coyotes were howling in the field below. Well, daycare went just fine although I was a wreck, I didn’t bawl.  I got

my haircut with my cell phone clenched in my fist, no call, all was well.  We loaded Nick up in

his stroller for a walk to distract him and I said goodbye.  He waved and said bye-bye and I left.  I

talked the ear off my hair dresser, trying to not think about how awful I felt.  I tend to talk fast and a lot when anxious.  I’m lucky to have a very, very patient husband who listens to me

ramble.  My hair dresser was sweet too, she tried so hard to relax me.  I got back to the daycare

in under an hour.  He was sitting with the other kids at the table eating a cookie, looking so

content and happy.  He didn’t freak and lift his arms for me to pick him or anything, he sat there and

finally wanted down to play on the rocking horse!!!  She said he didn’t fuss or cry or anything after

I left.  I’m so relieved. I was only gone an hour and he is 17 months old but was it ever hard!  She

was so impressed with what a well behaved content little guy he is. Tony got away yesterday ok and is having a great time fishing (a past time

I’ve yet to understand). I drove just south of here yesterday afternoon to visit my niece.  It was

absolutely wonderful to see her!!  I think she thought I was my sister.  She wanted me when she tripped and hit her forehead, much to Grandma’s and Nicolas’ dismay.  Poor baby wants her

Momma but she’s still in Alberta, making plans to move south soon. I’m still taking Effexor XR 150 mgs a day and am feeling really well.

Also, I take Klonopin and Xanax as needed, which is less often now that the Effexor has kicked in. I’ve been MIA here for the last little while.  Nervous about being

attacked for whatever reason (mostly because I’m taking medication and nursing).  But, for my own

sanity and ASAP’s health, I – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – need to post and reply and ignore the crap. Hugs,  Annette — annette’s pics http://www3.telus.net/ta-palmer/ Baby Nicolas’ Section http://www3.telus.net/ta-palmer/nick.htm

Response:

hi annette – just a quick hello from me, that’s all!  that’s nice work you do with the photo gallery. wish you the best. oh..wait…before I rush to sleep…..I know you probably answered this before, but, where (roughly speaking) do you live that you have pot-bellied pigs, goats, dogs, cats, etc….and an unwanted cougar? …i always have a soft spot for animals….probably because they’re such simple creatures! -bye Z (aka Rob)

I’ve had an anxiety filled last little while.  My sister’s ex-boyfriend

has been threatening and physically assaulting her and my niece, I’m so worried for them.  Tony

left town to go fishing until Sunday and Nick had his first session at daycare today.  There have been

reports of a cougar in our area this week.  We have pot-bellied pigs and goats, dogs and cats and the

neighbours horses on our 10 acres, all cougar bate except for the horses, I’ve heard cougars will

avoid them.  And, just now, coyotes were howling in the field below. Well, daycare went just fine although I was a wreck, I didn’t bawl.  I got

my haircut with my cell phone clenched in my fist, no call, all was well.  We loaded Nick up in

his stroller for a walk to distract him and I said goodbye.  He waved and said bye-bye and I left.  I

talked the ear off my hair dresser, trying to not think about how awful I felt.  I tend to talk fast and a lot when anxious.  I’m lucky to have a very, very patient husband who listens to me

ramble.  My hair dresser was sweet too, she tried so hard to relax me.  I got back to the daycare

in under an hour.  He was sitting with the other kids at the table eating a cookie, looking so

content and happy.  He didn’t freak and lift his arms for me to pick him or anything, he sat there and

finally wanted down to play on the rocking horse!!!  She said he didn’t fuss or cry or anything after

I left.  I’m so relieved. I was only gone an hour and he is 17 months old but was it ever hard!  She

was so impressed with what a well behaved content little guy he is. Tony got away yesterday ok and is having a great time fishing (a past time

I’ve yet to understand). I drove just south of here yesterday afternoon to visit my niece.  It was

absolutely wonderful to see her!!  I think she thought I was my sister.  She wanted me when she tripped and hit her forehead, much to Grandma’s and Nicolas’ dismay.  Poor baby wants her

Momma but she’s still in Alberta, making plans to move south soon. I’m still taking Effexor XR 150 mgs a day and am feeling really well.

Also, I take Klonopin and Xanax as needed, which is less often now that the Effexor has kicked in. I’ve been MIA here for the last little while.  Nervous about being

attacked for whatever reason (mostly because I’m taking medication and nursing).  But, for my own

sanity and ASAP’s health, I – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – need to post and reply and ignore the crap. Hugs,  Annette — annette’s pics http://www3.telus.net/ta-palmer/ Baby Nicolas’ Section http://www3.telus.net/ta-palmer/nick.htm

Response:

It is always difficult leaving our child with someone else for the first time.  So glad that things went well and that your Nick did so well on his first day.  (((((Annette))))) Take care, Liz – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve had an anxiety filled last little while.  My sister’s ex-boyfriend has been threatening and physically assaulting her and my niece, I’m so worried for them.  Tony left town to go fishing until Sunday and Nick had his first session at daycare today.  There have been reports of a cougar in our area this week.  We have pot-bellied pigs and goats, dogs and cats and the neighbours horses on our 10 acres, all cougar bate except for the horses, I’ve heard cougars will avoid them.  And, just now, coyotes were howling in the field below. Well, daycare went just fine although I was a wreck, I didn’t bawl.  I got my haircut with my cell phone clenched in my fist, no call, all was well.  We loaded Nick up in his stroller for a walk to distract him and I said goodbye.  He waved and said bye-bye and I left.  I talked the ear off my hair dresser, trying to not think about how awful I felt.  I tend to talk fast and a lot when anxious.  I’m lucky to have a very, very patient husband who listens to me ramble.  My hair dresser was sweet too, she tried so hard to relax me.  I got back to the daycare in under an hour.  He was sitting with the other kids at the table eating a cookie, looking so content and happy.  He didn’t freak and lift his arms for me to pick him or anything, he sat there and finally wanted down to play on the rocking horse!!!  She said he didn’t fuss or cry or anything after I left.  I’m so relieved. I was only gone an hour and he is 17 months old but was it ever hard!  She was so impressed with what a well behaved content little guy he is. Tony got away yesterday ok and is having a great time fishing (a past time I’ve yet to understand). I drove just south of here yesterday afternoon to visit my niece.  It was absolutely wonderful to see her!!  I think she thought I was my sister.  She wanted me when she tripped and hit her forehead, much to Grandma’s and Nicolas’ dismay.  Poor baby wants her Momma but she’s still in Alberta, making plans to move south soon. I’m still taking Effexor XR 150 mgs a day and am feeling really well.  Also, I take Klonopin and Xanax as needed, which is less often now that the Effexor has kicked in. I’ve been MIA here for the last little while.  Nervous about being attacked for whatever reason (mostly because I’m taking medication and nursing).  But, for my own sanity and ASAP’s health, I need to post and reply and ignore the crap. Hugs,  Annette — annette’s pics http://www3.telus.net/ta-palmer/ Baby Nicolas’ Section http://www3.telus.net/ta-palmer/nick.htm

Response:

I’ve had an anxiety filled last little while.  My sister’s ex-boyfriend has been threatening and physically assaulting her and my niece, I’m so worried for them.  Tony left town to go fishing until Sunday and Nick had his first session at daycare today.  There have been reports of a cougar in our area this week.  We have pot-bellied pigs and goats, dogs and cats and the neighbours horses on our 10 acres, all cougar bate except for the horses, I’ve heard cougars will avoid them.  And, just now, coyotes were howling in the field below. Well, daycare went just fine although I was a wreck, I didn’t bawl.  I got my haircut with my cell phone clenched in my fist, no call, all was well.  We loaded Nick up in his stroller for a walk to distract him and I said goodbye.  He waved and said bye-bye and I left.  I talked the ear off my hair dresser, trying to not think about how awful I felt.  I tend to talk fast and a lot when anxious.  I’m lucky to have a very, very patient husband who listens to me ramble.  My hair dresser was sweet too, she tried so hard to relax me.  I got back to the daycare in under an hour.  He was sitting with the other kids at the table eating a cookie, looking so content and happy.  He didn’t freak and lift his arms for me to pick him or anything, he sat there and finally wanted down to play on the rocking horse!!!  She said he didn’t fuss or cry or anything after I left.  I’m so relieved. I was only gone an hour and he is 17 months old but was it ever hard!  She was so impressed with what a well behaved content little guy he is. Tony got away yesterday ok and is having a great time fishing (a past time I’ve yet to understand). I drove just south of here yesterday afternoon to visit my niece.  It was absolutely wonderful to see her!!  I think she thought I was my sister.  She wanted me when she tripped and hit her forehead, much to Grandma’s and Nicolas’ dismay.  Poor baby wants her Momma but she’s still in Alberta, making plans to move south soon. I’m still taking Effexor XR 150 mgs a day and am feeling really well.  Also, I take Klonopin and Xanax as needed, which is less often now that the Effexor has kicked in. I’ve been MIA here for the last little while.  Nervous about being attacked for whatever reason (mostly because I’m taking medication and nursing).  But, for my own sanity and ASAP’s health, I need to post and reply and ignore the crap. Hugs,  Annette — annette’s pics http://www3.telus.net/ta-palmer/ Baby Nicolas’ Section http://www3.telus.net/ta-palmer/nick.htm

Response:

Question:

On Sun, 13 Jan 2002 00:56:49 GMT, Glenn <g…@mindspring.com

wrote: It was HORRIBLE for me. It kept me awake and made me feel as though I had taken an entire box of Sudafed before bed.

The usual complaint about Effexor is that it goes down… it comes back up. It’s something like 40% that report at least some nausea. On the other hand, my internist prescribes me Biaxin (an antibiotic), even though it makes her throw up. I’ve never had any trouble with that… when she asked me about antibiotics I’d taken, I mentioned "no problems whatsoever with Biaxin" and she made a face like she had been sucking on a lemon.

The worst med ever for me.

Prozac probably gets that award for me (overstimulation), with an honorable mention for penicillin (GI upset, but of the "flow-through" kind).

Response:

Charles L. Perrin wrote in message

Prozac probably gets that award for me (overstimulation), with an honorable mention for penicillin (GI upset, but of the "flow-through" kind).

i call that a tetley tea bag meds……… unique flow thru system

Response:

I just gave up on Effexor XR as it kept me awake. I am taking Remeron and now I cant wake up!!! "Cathy12253" <cathy12…@aol.com

wrote in message

news:20020109180552.13137.00000577@mb-cs.aol.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

I am on effexor xr also (75 mg 2 times per day).  I was taking 2nd dose at bedtime and came to the conclusion that it was not helping my insomnia.  I

just

started taking the 2nd dose, today, at 1pm to see if that helps.   I also

read

an article that said effexor xr was an "activator" anti-depressant so that

it

could antagonize your insomnia.Anybody on or been on effexor XL. Is it

any

good and when is the best time to take it? I take 75mg morning and night. So far I think its keeping me awake

Response:

On Sun, 13 Jan 2002 18:21:02 -0000, "sgreen1234" <sgreen1…@yahoo.co.uk

wrote: I just gave up on Effexor XR as it kept me awake. I am taking Remeron and now I cant wake up!!!

Keep working with your doctor… there are a significant number of antidepressants, and they vary as to whether they’re stimulating or sedating. I’m no doctor, but I"ve been doctored… and I’d make a wild-eyed guess that what they call Lustral in the UK (sertraline generically/Zoloft in the USA) might be the happy medium. But, then again, it might NOT. It’s all rather unpredictable (with the exception that Remeron patients do sleep).

Response:

"sgreen1234" <sgreen1…@ntlworld.com

wrote: Anybody on or been on effexor XL. Is it any good and when is the best time to take it? I take 75mg morning and night. So far I think its keeping me awake but that may just be the anxiety I am suffering from anyway. I took it a few years ago and I think it got me back. I never lost any sleep anyway! Any advice would be welcome.

Venlafaxine (Effexor) can be energizing and can certainly cause insomnia. One of the advantages of the XR form is that it’s intended as a once-daily medication. It’s fairly unusual for people to take it twice a day (although that was the standard regimen with original Effexor). The only people I’ve got taking multiple doses are those who for some reason couldn’t tolerate or didn’t benefit from once-daily.

Response:

It was HORRIBLE for me. It kept me awake and made me feel as though I had taken an entire box of Sudafed before bed. The worst med ever for me. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -sgreen1234 wrote:

Anybody on or been on effexor XL. Is it any good and when is the best time to take it? I take 75mg morning and night. So far I think its keeping me awake but that may just be the anxiety I am suffering from anyway. I took it a few years ago and I think it got me back. I never lost any sleep anyway! Any advice would be welcome.

Response:

I am on effexor xr also (75 mg 2 times per day).  I was taking 2nd dose at bedtime and came to the conclusion that it was not helping my insomnia.  I just started taking the 2nd dose, today, at 1pm to see if that helps.   I also read an article that said effexor xr was an "activator" anti-depressant so that it could antagonize your insomnia.

Anybody on or been on effexor XL. Is it any

good and when is the best time – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

to take it? I take 75mg morning and night. So far I think its keeping me awake

Response:

On Mon, 7 Jan 2002 20:14:35 -0000, "sgreen1234" <sgreen1…@ntlworld.com

wrote: Anybody on or been on effexor XL. Is it any good and when is the best time to take it?

Well, it’s effective for many patients… although guideline writers aren’t generally sure whether to call it a "first-line" or a "second-line" drug. Anyway, it sells $1.2 billion at the manufacturer’s level.

I take 75mg morning and night. So far I think its keeping me awake but that may just be the anxiety I am suffering from anyway.

I remember it as being mildly stimulating when I first started taking it (fairly soon after it came out). I also remember Elavil (a very sedating antidepressant) being quite sedating when I first started taking it. However, both tended to go back towards normalcy out over time.

I took it a few years ago and I think it got me back. Any advice would be welcome.

If you have past experience with it working, it should work now. However, it seems that it invariably takes a several weeks for most antidepressants to take hold, despite the fact that the blood levels reach steady-state much sooner than that (Effexor particularly, as it metabolizes quickly).

Response:

Made my heart race like crazy, was not a good match for me

Response:

hi there, i was on effexor, for a year, it made me very pyschotic, i kept overdosing on it, didnt do me much help, but its different for people, it might help you, it might not, only by taking the medication, will you know, whether its any good for you or not! i hope it helps you i was on 225mg a day, btw michael

Response:

I don’t know how quickly it metabolizes, but it is very difficult to stop taking. It took me three months of gradual dose decreases to stop it and I still had withdrawal symptoms. In addition, if you miss it one day or are very late taking it, you can feel like crap. That was my experience. Now take Celexa. "Charles L. Perrin" <c.l.per…@worldnet.att.net

wrote in message

news:2mmk3usnkffpmsdb34q03md662svpvm78p@4ax.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

On Mon, 7 Jan 2002 20:14:35 -0000, "sgreen1234" <sgreen1…@ntlworld.com wrote: Anybody on or been on effexor XL. Is it any good and when is the best

time

to take it? Well, it’s effective for many patients… although guideline writers aren’t generally sure whether to call it a "first-line" or a "second-line" drug. Anyway, it sells $1.2 billion at the manufacturer’s level. I take 75mg morning and night. So far I think its keeping me awake but that may just be the anxiety I am suffering from anyway. I remember it as being mildly stimulating when I first started taking it (fairly soon after it came out). I also remember Elavil (a very sedating antidepressant) being quite sedating when I first started taking it. However, both tended to go back towards normalcy out over time. I took it a few years ago and I think it got me back. Any advice would be welcome. If you have past experience with it working, it should work now. However, it seems that it invariably takes a several weeks for most antidepressants to take hold, despite the fact that the blood levels reach steady-state much sooner than that (Effexor particularly, as it metabolizes quickly).

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Anybody on or been on effexor XL. Is it any good and when is the best time to take it? I take 75mg morning and night. So far I think its keeping me awake but that may just be the anxiety I am suffering from anyway. I took it a few years ago and I think it got me back. I never lost any sleep anyway! Any advice would be welcome.

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Does anyone think taking 300 mg wellbutrin and 225 mg effexor per day (as prescribed) then taking handfuls of klonopin on the weekend to calm down (not prescribed) is a problem?  I have felt better that ever on the effexor and the wellbutrin and viagra takes care of the sexual problems for me, but weekends are still rough.  I just want to be alone and be numbed. Can anyone relate? I feel like I should be so very grateful, cause I feel better than I ever have before, but I like to play with pills. I’d just like to know I’m not alone in this. Thanks… — I can’t think of a single movie that couldn’t be improved by a lesbian sex scene.

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Does anyone think taking 300 mg wellbutrin and 225 mg effexor per day (as prescribed) then taking handfuls of klonopin on the weekend to calm down (not prescribed) is a problem?  I have felt better that ever on the effexor and the wellbutrin and viagra takes care of the sexual problems for me, but weekends are still rough.  I just want to be alone and be numbed. Can anyone relate? I feel like I should be so very grateful, cause I feel better than I ever have before, but I like to play with pills. I’d just like to know I’m not alone in this. Thanks…

When I was taking 300 mg Effexor and 150 mg Wellbutrin, I had to take Klonopin quite often.  I just got so tense and anxious and sometimes I was really irritable or angry.  Lots of Klonopin helped.  I’m not on the Wellbutrin anymore, and I haven’t had to take the Klonopin recently either. No, you’re not alone. Deb

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone think taking 300 mg wellbutrin and 225 mg effexor per day (as prescribed) then taking handfuls of klonopin on the weekend to calm down (not prescribed) is a problem?  I have felt better that ever on the effexor and the wellbutrin and viagra takes care of the sexual problems for me, but weekends are still rough.  I just want to be alone and be numbed. Can anyone relate? I feel like I should be so very grateful, cause I feel better than I ever have before, but I like to play with pills. I’d just like to know I’m not alone in this. Thanks… When I was taking 300 mg Effexor and 150 mg Wellbutrin, I had to take Klonopin quite often.  I just got so tense and anxious and sometimes I was really irritable or angry.  Lots of Klonopin helped.  I’m not on the Wellbutrin anymore, and I haven’t had to take the Klonopin recently either. No, you’re not alone. Deb

I just don’t like benzo’s.  I want to take the whole bottle sometimes. I like the tense and anxious feeling better.  I really do. — I can’t think of a single movie that couldn’t be improved by a lesbian sex scene.

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Good post, man.  Tnx. ALSO tnx for the Michael Moore quote !!!   So TRUE !  The media do such a great job of distorting reality.. Norbi

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Hey folks: Well..it’s been a few days now..but my psychiatrist has me starte on this interesting (but..a bit expensive!!) combo of meds. Besides taking Depakote and Clonazepam 3x a day, he has set me up with a script for 37.5mg of Effexor XR, and 50mg of Zoloft. He was pretty good in explaining his rational, plus he knew that I was pretty knowldegable of medications. Basically, he thought a mild uptake inhibition of dopamine and norepinephrine combined with a bit stronger uptake of serotonin might possibly do the "trick" for me…as these are the only two meds I have EVER responded at least a bit well too. So, the Zoloft is the SRI, of course, and the Effexor provides that mild boost not to just serotonin, but also to norepinephrine and dopamine. The other meds seem to help smooth out the 1)anxiety and 2)insomnia. I know some people on here have been asking about this combo. If you can, and are looking at trying some augmentation of meds due to many past failures, you may want to talk to your doctor and psychiatrist about this. They may find it a bit odd…but as mentioned above, there is A BIT of logic behind it. Of course…monitor yourself very carefully on the first while of the meds..and make sure you get your bloodwork and tests done, as this is still fairly unknown territory. As always..YMMV…IMHO..etc. I was on just Effexor and Clonazepam before, but at no matter what dose of Clonazepam, I had a very hard time with a feeling of "depersonalization", and the Effexor XR just didn’t feel it was working completely right. Now..one other thing, is that my sleep pattern has seemed to fall well into place (except tonight..I just got home from work..heh) But, I sleep like a baby, and wake up feeling very refreshed. I know others have found Welbutrin to be a good combonation with any of the SRI/SNRI’s, but Welbutrin is WAY too stimulating for me. I you would like to email me with any thoughts, questions, etc, I would be more than happy to give M personal account. BUT, please, before embarking on such a med change, make SURE you discuss it thouroughly with you doc or psychiatrist. To help keep costs down…I shop around ALOT for the best prices on the medication. There are some excellent on-line pharmacies (NOT the "illegal ones) but places like Rxlist.com, who offer great prices, and free shipping on your meds. Once you and your psychiatrist figure out what works best (you..most of all,,MUST know..) s/he can usually give you up to months supply of your meds, in which you fax your prescription, or have your pshychiatrist phone it in, and it can save you a REAL bundle: NOT ONLY in the "so-called" dispensing fee’s, but also in the actual cost of the medication. As usual, also, there are free medications for those in need, with a low income. You can find them through any of the search engines. Best of luck..and remember…there is ALWAYS different paths to hope. James MacLachlan — "I’ve used up all my sick days…so I’m calling in dead!" -Anon "I’d like to know where shareholders get their power from?? I am wondering where the hell the word "shareholder" is in the American Consitution?" "Let us pause for a moment to recover from the sad news this week that Dan Quayle will not be running for President next year. Potatoe lovers all over America are feeling a sense of loss and I can only say that with Quayle out of the running, all we have to look forward to now is the day when we get to hear more than a sound bite from George W. Bush and realize he’s even dumber than Quayle. There is a reason you have not heard Bush Jr. speak on television for any length of time. The media knows he’s as dense as oatmeal and because they have been so busy touting him as "the front runner" to actually put him on to speak for ten minutes would reveal how not on top of things they really are." Micheal Moore, "The AWFUL Truth"

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Hi Richard: I have the same thing as your wife!! I have had it for 5 years and it was originally caused from taking too much decongestant which caused insomnia. The worse my insomnia gets, the worse the jerks get and I can get days of 1 hr sleep a night. WHen it originally started I collapsed at work from fatigue and was diagnosed with panic disorder. I have successfully treated it with medications over the last 5 years. WHen I have to change meds for various reasons (wt gain, fatigue, etc) and/or during periods of no medication it comes back after a couple of nights of bad sleep. I had a sleep study done in the summer and it showed sleep terrors and I was told that the jerking was called hypnic (sp?) jerks. I also have hypnogogic hallucinations where I am partially awake and see trolls,and such, running around my room until I’m fully awake. Everyone is different with meds but I have found that Doxepin worked great within two days. Also Paxil, xanax, nortriptyline and now I am on zopiclone (Imovane here in Canada).For me I HAVE to be on medication, self-help things do absolutely nothing once I get the jerks. Drugs that did NOT work for me are clonazepam (though it is indicated for RLS and sleep terrors), Prozac, Effexor, Manerix. I am also on Luvox(fluvoxamine) now which does not help my sleep yet. I have been on the Imovane (3.75-7.5 mg) for about 6 weeks and just recently I have found it to be less effective. How long has your wife been on it and has it maintained its effectivesness? What dose is she on and how often? I was supposed to take it every second day but the day in between I was sleepless so now I am on it nightly. Has she had a sleep study done? In article <36930565.1…@bt.com

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -  richard.ingles…@bt.com wrote:

Help for my Wife We live in a small village in the UK. I’m hoping that somewhere out there is someone who has experience or knowledge of the problem that has affected my wife’s sleep for the last four years.  Elaine is 42 years old. The problem is as follows: – She will start to fall asleep, but just as she is dropping off her whole body jerks her awake.  These hypnagogic jerks  often happen in individuals, but normally only once or twice before the person falls asleep.  The problem for my wife is that this process is continuous, with jerks every few seconds preventing her from sleeping at all. Usually when people have these jerks they get a sensation of falling that precedes the jerk but my wife gets repeated jerks without the falling sensation.  She likens it to the needle on a record getting stuck and playing the same tune over and over again. The only way that my wife is able to get any relief from her insomnia is to take the sleeping medication Zopiclone (Zimovane) every night. Unfortunately Elaine needs at least 8 to 9 hours sleep to feel refreshed and not end up walking round like a zombie.  She used to be such a good sleeper and longs to be able to sleep well again of her own accord without having to take the medication. She has never been afraid of falling asleep as she has always found sleep to be a great way of relieving stress. If there is anyone who has suffered the same or knows of the causes/cures for this and can enlighten us I would be over the moon for any information given that would result in Elaine’s insomnia being cured.

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richard inglesant wrote:

We live in a small village in the UK.

You’ll be happy to know that there appear to be some excellent support groups in the UK for people suffering from sleep disorders.  Hopefully, one of the other members has that pointer readily available… (Sorry I don’t have it at the moment).

I’m hoping that somewhere out there is someone who has experience or knowledge of the problem that has affected my wife’s sleep for the last four years.  Elaine is 42 years old. The problem is as follows: – She will start to fall asleep, but just as she is dropping off her whole body jerks her awake.  These hypnagogic jerks often happen in individuals, but normally only once or twice before the person falls asleep.  The problem for my wife is that this process is continuous, with jerks every few seconds preventing her from sleeping at all.

Richard, please understand, suggestions we can offer are purely based on our experience, not medical knowledge.  However, with that disclaimer, you might want to look into two different possible problems: RLS – Restless Leg Syndrome … describes the problem some people have while awake.  (Generally their legs tend to ‘bounce’ as if restless – without the individual being fully aware of the movement). PLMD – Periodic Leg Movement Disorder … describes periodic leg movements during sleep, which cause the individual to jerk awake.  Often the jerk does not fully awaken the individual, but does cause the individual to not have restful sleep. For many people these jerks only exhibit themselves as jerks in the leg. However, these jerks can be severe enough to impact the entire body. Sometimes I hear sound associated with the jerks. Pointers on where to find out more are below.

Usually when people have these jerks they get a sensation of falling that precedes the jerk but my wife gets repeated jerks without the falling sensation.  She likens it to the needle on a record getting stuck and playing the same tune over and over again.

Yup.  Not comfortable and can cause a great deal of anxiety.

The only way that my wife is able to get any relief from her insomnia is to take the sleeping medication Zopiclone (Zimovane) every night.  Unfortunately Elaine needs at least 8 to 9 hours sleep to feel refreshed and not end up walking round like a zombie.  She used to be such a good sleeper and longs to be able to sleep well again of her own accord without having to take the medication. She has never been afraid of falling asleep as she has always found sleep to be a great way of relieving stress.

Unfortunately, (as I understand it) medication is about the only way to gain some release from these symptoms.  I do not know if the medication she is taking is targeted to relieve the symptoms or merely induce sleep.

If there is anyone who has suffered the same or knows of the causes/cures for this and can enlighten us I would be over the moon for any information given that would result in Elaine’s insomnia being cured.

You might want to discuss the possibility of Restless Leg Syndrome, or Periodic Leg Movement Disorder with her doctor.  Again, though the names imply only leg movements, it can impact the entire body.  I sometimes feel as if someone has delivered a strong electric shock to my system…  Not fun. You might want to look at the following web sites:   1.  Restless Legs Syndrome Foundation, Inc.    http://www.rls.org   2.  Southern California RLS Support Group       http://surf.to/rls Hope this helps some.  Other members in the newsgroup should be able to provide information about the medication they use, and possibly even about the medication your wife is taking.  But our experience is no substitute for discussing this with a healthcare professional who can help her with her sleep disorder (not just drugging her to sleep). Regards, =jbf= John B. Fisher

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Help for my Wife We live in a small village in the UK.   I’m hoping that somewhere out there is someone who has experience or knowledge of the problem that has affected my wife’s sleep for the last four years.  Elaine is 42 years old. The problem is as follows: – She will start to fall asleep, but just as she is dropping off her whole body jerks her awake.  These hypnagogic jerks  often happen in individuals, but normally only once or twice before the person falls asleep.  The problem for my wife is that this process is continuous, with jerks every few seconds preventing her from sleeping at all. Usually when people have these jerks they get a sensation of falling that precedes the jerk but my wife gets repeated jerks without the falling sensation.  She likens it to the needle on a record getting stuck and playing the same tune over and over again. The only way that my wife is able to get any relief from her insomnia is to take the sleeping medication Zopiclone (Zimovane) every night. Unfortunately Elaine needs at least 8 to 9 hours sleep to feel refreshed and not end up walking round like a zombie.  She used to be such a good sleeper and longs to be able to sleep well again of her own accord without having to take the medication. She has never been afraid of falling asleep as she has always found sleep to be a great way of relieving stress. If there is anyone who has suffered the same or knows of the causes/cures for this and can enlighten us I would be over the moon for any information given that would result in Elaine’s insomnia being cured.

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I have sleep apnea so can’t offer eprsonal experience but here is a link to a great site that deals with a myriad of sleep disorders and restless legs syndrome is one I believe. http://www.sleepedu.net/forums/apnea/apneainf.html = = = = = For information regarding Tracheostomy and the treatment of Obstructive Sleep Apnea please visit http://members.aol.com/citylinc/osa/index.htm = = = = = A great sleep forum http://www.sleepedu.net/forums/apnea/apneainf.html

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Ari, I wonder if he meant that hair loss is not an issue with SSRIs in general, or specifically not a problem with Zoloft?  If it’s the latter, maybe I’ll switch from Prozac, which seems to be causing some mild & subtle hair loss for me. But I do think that all SSRIs warn that it is a rare side effect. — Ari

I was pretty amazed to see all sorts of discussion lists on the web with lots of people saying that all sorts of different SSRIs were causing hair loss.  The two worst offenders seemed to be Paxil and Zoloft.  But Prozac was in there, too.  Now, maybe it was just that the people with the hair loss were posting, and actually very few people had hair loss.  But, from what I read (spent many hours reading all this stuff one night, all the while checking my hair to make sure it indeed still was up there), it seems to be more than rare. Matt

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Well, I logged in to post a question about hairloss with serzone.  I may be imagining it (but I don’t think so), but it seems my scalp has been itching more than usual since starting serzone, and after washing my hair I lose lots of hair (more than usual by about half).  Anyone else?

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I didn’t have much before I started Serzone! (8 ^O —— Ahhhhh! OH NO I’M BALD *Grin* But anything’s possible…. Cheers, Mike from OZ

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Well, I logged in to post a question about hairloss with serzone.  I may be imagining it (but I don’t think so), but it seems my scalp has been itching more than usual since starting serzone, and after washing my hair I lose lots of hair (more than usual by about half).  Anyone else?

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ari, I wonder if he meant that hair loss is not an issue with SSRIs in general, or specifically not a problem with Zoloft?  If it’s the latter, maybe I’ll switch from Prozac, which seems to be causing some mild & subtle hair loss for me. But I do think that all SSRIs warn that it is a rare side effect. — Ari I was pretty amazed to see all sorts of discussion lists on the web with lots of people saying that all sorts of different SSRIs were causing hair loss.  The two worst offenders seemed to be Paxil and Zoloft.  But Prozac was in there, too.  Now, maybe it was just that the people with the hair loss were posting, and actually very few people had hair loss.  But, from what I read (spent many hours reading all this stuff one night, all the while checking my hair to make sure it indeed still was up there), it seems to be more than rare. Matt

It’s too early to tell if it’s working, but I got myself on the same kind of vitamin regimen adopted by some depakote users.  The consensus on a few online forums seems that selenium and zinc (and to a lesser degree choline, inositol, vitamin B and folic acid) is sometimes useful for people on mood stabilizers (is that the right term?).  I have been taking them for two months, and perhaps there has been less hair loss recently (25 hairs/day versus 45), but it’s still early.  Mind you, my wife thinks I’m imagining things, but I have definitely noticed some subtle fallout since I began Prozac in November 97.  But at this point, since the hair loss is so mild, I prefer to stick with Prozac a bit longer; it works too well otherwise for me not to. Ari

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    Interesting, I know it can be a problem with depakote, but I haven’t heard of antidepressant doing it. Tim, Try an altavista with +hair +zoloft (or prozac or paxil or effexor, for that matter). Matt

I never had that problem when I was on zoloft but it is listed as a side effect. John

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : : I’m currently on Zoloft, and it’s working great for me. Some mild side : effects, but nothing I can’t live with. I haven’t noticed any hair loss : after five weeks, but then, I haven’t got much hair left to lose . : : I’m seeing my psychiatrist this afternoon. I’ll ask him how common this : problem is and get back to you. : : –Ed : Thanks Ed–I look forward to the report. : Best, : Matt Matt, According to my doc (who’s a good guy, very smart), hair loss is *not* a side effect of Zoloft. It is with other meds (which, he didn’t say), but not with this one. I can see it now: TV ads for Zoloft which proclaim, "With Zoloft, your hair is safe!" –Ed

I wonder if he meant that hair loss is not an issue with SSRIs in general, or specifically not a problem with Zoloft?  If it’s the latter, maybe I’ll switch from Prozac, which seems to be causing some mild & subtle hair loss for me. But I do think that all SSRIs warn that it is a rare side effect. — Ari

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Have any of you had any hair loss/thinning with zoloft? Thanks Matt

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Have any of you had any hair loss/thinning with zoloft? I wouldn’t rule it out, Matt – I’ve certainly heard of it with Serzone. — Gary Cooper

So it looks like just about all of the new antidepressants can do this–I know that Effexor and the SSRIs can have this effect.  Now Serzone too, eh? One thing that I don’t know is exactly how common this is with each; since I’m on Zoloft I was interested in hearing other’s experiences with this drug. Thanks Matt

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Have any of you had any hair loss/thinning with zoloft?

I wouldn’t rule it out, Matt – I’ve certainly heard of it with Serzone. — Gary Cooper

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: So it looks like just about all of the new antidepressants can do this–I : know that Effexor and the SSRIs can have this effect.  Now Serzone too, : eh? : One thing that I don’t know is exactly how common this is with each; since : I’m on Zoloft I was interested in hearing other’s experiences with this : drug. : Thanks : Matt Hi Matt, I’m currently on Zoloft, and it’s working great for me. Some mild side effects, but nothing I can’t live with. I haven’t noticed any hair loss after five weeks, but then, I haven’t got much hair left to lose . I’m seeing my psychiatrist this afternoon. I’ll ask him how common this problem is and get back to you. –Ed

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I’m currently on Zoloft, and it’s working great for me. Some mild side effects, but nothing I can’t live with. I haven’t noticed any hair loss after five weeks, but then, I haven’t got much hair left to lose . I’m seeing my psychiatrist this afternoon. I’ll ask him how common this problem is and get back to you. –Ed

Thanks Ed–I look forward to the report. Best, Matt

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m currently on Zoloft, and it’s working great for me. Some mild side effects, but nothing I can’t live with. I haven’t noticed any hair loss after five weeks, but then, I haven’t got much hair left to lose . I’m seeing my psychiatrist this afternoon. I’ll ask him how common this problem is and get back to you. –Ed Thanks Ed–I look forward to the report. Best, Matt

    Interesting, I know it can be a problem with depakote, but I haven’t heard of antidepressant doing it.

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: : I’m currently on Zoloft, and it’s working great for me. Some mild side : effects, but nothing I can’t live with. I haven’t noticed any hair loss : after five weeks, but then, I haven’t got much hair left to lose . : : I’m seeing my psychiatrist this afternoon. I’ll ask him how common this : problem is and get back to you. : : –Ed : Thanks Ed–I look forward to the report. : Best, : Matt Matt, According to my doc (who’s a good guy, very smart), hair loss is *not* a side effect of Zoloft. It is with other meds (which, he didn’t say), but not with this one. I can see it now: TV ads for Zoloft which proclaim, "With Zoloft, your hair is safe!" –Ed

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    Interesting, I know it can be a problem with depakote, but I haven’t heard of antidepressant doing it.

Tim, Try an altavista with +hair +zoloft (or prozac or paxil or effexor, for that matter). Matt

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