Question:

Thanks to all who replied to my question about Advair. We were very careful to keep the Flovent the same level (she used the Flovent inhaler in addition to the Advair to keep it equal) and she switched from a Serevent diskus, so all things should have been the same. However, I left the choice to her, and she decided to go back to the Serevent diskus and Flovent MDI. She hasn’t been having any problem since. I guess it’s a case of "different strokes for different folks." sue — Susan Hartman/Dirty Linen The Magazine of Folk and World Music http://www.dirtylinen.com

Response:

Does Advair have the same compounds as Pulmicort. Check with your doctor. Lane – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello. I’ve read lots of posts about Advair and seen that most people like it. But I’m still slightly concerned. My 13-y.o. daughter has severe asthma and takes Accolate, Serevent, Flovent, and Zyrtec. She’s been well controlled over the summer. In the past she has tried Pulmicort Turbohaler and had disastrous results. She couldn’t sleep at night, couldn’t wake in the morning, and had awful nightmares and almost "psychotic" dreams/nighttime episodes. This occured between 1-3 weeks after starting Pulmicort, and when we made the connection we put her back on Flovent and she was fine. (And this has happened twice, at 18-mo intervals). Well, she just started Advair about a week and a half ago and is starting to have trouble sleeping and waking. This morning she mentioned that she thinks it might be similar to the Pulmicort experience. But since it’s just the first couple of weeks of school, it’s hard to say whether it’s Advair-related or normal teen adjustment to a daytime schedule! Though she did also just yesterday have her first asthma flare in a long while – several weeks at least (used the neb for the first time since the beginning of summer). So my question is, has anyone had similar problems with Pulmicort Turbohaler, and what is the experience of those "sensitive" people to Advair? Is there something related to the delivery method? Or was the Pulmicort/Flovent difference related to the drug involved? I should also mention that’s she’s one of those unfortunate people who responds "over the top" to prednisone…every bad side effect known to woman! Munchies, water retention, screaming meanies, etc. Thanks for any light you can shed. Sue — Susan Hartman/Dirty Linen The Magazine of Folk and World Music http://www.dirtylinen.com

Response:

Her reaction to Advair shouldn’t be any different than her reaction to Flovent and Serevent since Advair is the combination of the 2 drugs in a more convenient form. What dose is she on? And did she increase her dose? For example if she was on Flovent 220 is her Advair 250/50? Or higher?

Response:

Well, she just started Advair about a week and a half ago and is starting to have trouble sleeping and waking. This morning she mentioned that she thinks it might be similar to the Pulmicort experience.

It may be an issue of dose. It is possible that her technique with the MDI is not optimal so what the doctor thinks is an equivalent dose of the dry powder inhalers is actually an increase. Advair comes in three different strengths so it may be possible to reduce her dose safely. — CBI, MD

Response:

I took Advair for about six weeks and finally decided to take a break inasmuch as my nasal passges have been very sore deuring that time.  I don’t know if there’s a connection, thus the break to see what happens.  If it clears up then reappears when I resume the Advair, then I’ve resolved the problem.  I did find that the NIH resume was most helpful … I don’t have it in front of me, but loss of sleep might’ve been one of the side effects. Hope this helps … Al Fisher

Response:

Hello. I’ve read lots of posts about Advair and seen that most people like it. But I’m still slightly concerned.

I loved Advair.  I was down to one puff a day, and was off my ventolin inhalers completely.  <I am one ofthose people who has cats, sleeps with them – and is allergic However, I also had a concern – I began having heart palpitaitons.  I checked the web for side effects, asked the doctor – and my concerns were dismissed.  I ended up in the hospital with Ventricular Tachycardia (VT). Normally a very healthy (other than the asthma) adult who hikes, bikes and climbs stairs, my energy level was dropping off the bottom. I have since read that the Advair guys had done some tests on VT and Advair, but I don’t know what the results were.  Why would they do the tests if there was no concern?  If you do develop VT from using Advair – does it disappear after you stop using it? Does anyone have any anecdotal evidence on this? Connie

Response:

I found on a switch from Aerobid to Flovent, that the switch itself caused me to be extremely sensitive for about 3 weeks. It wasn’t that the new drug didn’t work, I think it was that the old one quit before the new one built up. Time may help? LA – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello. I’ve read lots of posts about Advair and seen that most people like it. But I’m still slightly concerned. My 13-y.o. daughter has severe asthma and takes Accolate, Serevent, Flovent, and Zyrtec. She’s been well controlled over the summer. In the past she has tried Pulmicort Turbohaler and had disastrous results. She couldn’t sleep at night, couldn’t wake in the morning, and had awful nightmares and almost "psychotic" dreams/nighttime episodes. This occured between 1-3 weeks after starting Pulmicort, and when we made the connection we put her back on Flovent and she was fine. (And this has happened twice, at 18-mo intervals). Well, she just started Advair about a week and a half ago and is starting to have trouble sleeping and waking. This morning she mentioned that she thinks it might be similar to the Pulmicort experience. But since it’s just the first couple of weeks of school, it’s hard to say whether it’s Advair-related or normal teen adjustment to a daytime schedule! Though she did also just yesterday have her first asthma flare in a long while – several weeks at least (used the neb for the first time since the beginning of summer). So my question is, has anyone had similar problems with Pulmicort Turbohaler, and what is the experience of those "sensitive" people to Advair? Is there something related to the delivery method? Or was the Pulmicort/Flovent difference related to the drug involved? I should also mention that’s she’s one of those unfortunate people who responds "over the top" to prednisone…every bad side effect known to woman! Munchies, water retention, screaming meanies, etc. Thanks for any light you can shed. Sue — Susan Hartman/Dirty Linen The Magazine of Folk and World Music http://www.dirtylinen.com

Response:

Hello. I’ve read lots of posts about Advair and seen that most people like it. But I’m still slightly concerned. My 13-y.o. daughter has severe asthma and takes Accolate, Serevent, Flovent, and Zyrtec. She’s been well controlled over the summer. In the past she has tried Pulmicort Turbohaler and had disastrous results. She couldn’t sleep at night, couldn’t wake in the morning, and had awful nightmares and almost "psychotic" dreams/nighttime episodes. This occured between 1-3 weeks after starting Pulmicort, and when we made the connection we put her back on Flovent and she was fine. (And this has happened twice, at 18-mo intervals). Well, she just started Advair about a week and a half ago and is starting to have trouble sleeping and waking. This morning she mentioned that she thinks it might be similar to the Pulmicort experience. But since it’s just the first couple of weeks of school, it’s hard to say whether it’s Advair-related or normal teen adjustment to a daytime schedule! Though she did also just yesterday have her first asthma flare in a long while – several weeks at least (used the neb for the first time since the beginning of summer). So my question is, has anyone had similar problems with Pulmicort Turbohaler, and what is the experience of those "sensitive" people to Advair? Is there something related to the delivery method? Or was the Pulmicort/Flovent difference related to the drug involved? I should also mention that’s she’s one of those unfortunate people who responds "over the top" to prednisone…every bad side effect known to woman! Munchies, water retention, screaming meanies, etc. Thanks for any light you can shed. Sue — Susan Hartman/Dirty Linen The Magazine of Folk and World Music http://www.dirtylinen.com

Response:

Question:

It is nice to know that I’m not alone in my sinus suffering.  I have a chronic infection and am wondering if it is safe to fly with sinusitis.  My son and I are due to fly from London to NY in four weeks and we both have infections now. Does anyone out there know the answer to this? Thanks, MS

Response:

Last year I made 4 trips coast to coast with the sinus infection. I did not have any problems. My guess would be that it will be individuals degree of infection. I know that when I landed in Las Vegas on my way back I sat down on a bench in front of the airport and my sinuses started to drain. I did not have any problems all the time I was there. But afte I arrived back in Pennsylvania I started with the sinuses again.  

Response:

Be very careful.  Because of the changes in air pressure, it can cause some problems.    I have flown with sinus infection.  When I took the precaution of taking a decongestant at least 1/2 hour before I flew, I was okay.  Once I forgot and experienced extreme pain in my ears on landing.  If you have any sensation of blocked ears because of the sinusitus, be especially careful. Laurie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -RSawyer676 wrote in message <19990301132133.05711.00002…@ng41.aol.com

… It is nice to know that I’m not alone in my sinus suffering.  I have a

chronic

infection and am wondering if it is safe to fly with sinusitis.  My son and

I

are due to fly from London to NY in four weeks and we both have infections

now.

Does anyone out there know the answer to this? Thanks, MS

Response:

RSawyer676 wrote:

It is nice to know that I’m not alone in my sinus suffering.  I have a chronic infection and am wondering if it is safe to fly with sinusitis.  My son and I are due to fly from London to NY in four weeks and we both have infections now. Does anyone out there know the answer to this? Thanks, MS

— It can be a problem with both the ears and sinuses. Wellington S. Tichenor, M. D. 642 Park Avenue New York, New York 10021 212 517-6611 wtiche…@sinuses.com Visit our award winning website at: http://www.sinuses.com Sinusitis: A Treatment plan that works for allergy and asthma too Please take advantage of our internal search engine Any information must be discussed with your physician and should not be used as medical advice.   If you are looking for a physician and can’t get to New York, please go to the FAQ page.  Good Luck.

Response:

Wellington S. Tichenor, M. D. <wtiche…@pol.net

wrote in article

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

RSawyer676 wrote: It is nice to know that I’m not alone in my sinus suffering.  I have a

chronic

infection and am wondering if it is safe to fly with sinusitis.  My son

and I

are due to fly from London to NY in four weeks and we both have

infections now.

Does anyone out there know the answer to this? Thanks, MS — It can be a problem with both the ears and sinuses.

True, but if I didn’t fly every time I have a sinus infection I would be unemployed. I have no doubt that the time I spend in the air made my infections worse and contributed to them becoming chronic.  I never had any real discomfort from it though – the pressure didn’t hurt or anything like that. These days, I fly regardless but fortunately, I have enough control over the infections that I don’t get them often nor are they severe. Loki

Response:

These days, I fly regardless but fortunately, I have enough control over the infections that I don’t get them often nor are they severe.

How do you keep control over them?

Response:

I’d like to know that too. How?? frit…@aol.come (Fritz96) Date: Sun, Mar 7, 1999 9:48 PM wrote: "loki" <l…@inlink.com

wrote: These days, I fly regardless but fortunately, I have enough control over the infections that I don’t get them often nor are they severe.

How do you keep control over them? Sue M.

Response:

Fritz96 <frit…@aol.come

wrote in article These days, I fly regardless but fortunately, I have enough control over the infections that I don’t get them often nor are they severe. How do you keep control over them?

Several things. 1.  Irrigation – daily – I just got the Grossan (sp?) tip to try it out 2.  I also have asthma and the Singulaire I take for that helps the sinuses as well 3.  Pau ‘D Arco – I take it daily.  It’s a herb that I drink as a tea and it keeps the infections to almost none at all.  I take it in higher doses if I do get an infection and it cures it faster than antibiotics. 4.  Guaifenesin – taken daily to keep the mucus thined out and flowing 5.  Two sinus surgeries a few years back – one to correct a deviated septum and the other to trim the turbinates. All of this (well, maybe not the herb) things discussed regularly here.   Loki – noting she does not sell herbs

Response:

– Mike Collins – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -loki wrote in message <01be6928$5d77e760$5f8c87d1@carlile

… Fritz96 <frit…@aol.come wrote in article These days, I fly regardless but fortunately, I have enough control over the infections that I don’t get them often nor are they severe. How do you keep control over them? Several things. 1.  Irrigation – daily – I just got the Grossan (sp?) tip to try it out 2.  I also have asthma and the Singulaire I take for that helps the sinuses as well 3.  Pau ‘D Arco – I take it daily.  It’s a herb that I drink as a tea and it keeps the infections to almost none at all.  I take it in higher doses if I do get an infection and it cures it faster than antibiotics. 4.  Guaifenesin – taken daily to keep the mucus thined out and flowing 5.  Two sinus surgeries a few years back – one to correct a deviated septum and the other to trim the turbinates. All of this (well, maybe not the herb) things discussed regularly here. Loki – noting she does not sell herbs

I am very interested in the Singulaire. When this was announced on the UK news not long ago the asthma helplines were jammed wth people ringing up for information. I was seeing my ENT at the time and asked him if this would be suitable ( Leucotreine antagonist). He had’nt heard the news but he was very interested.  Is Singulaire used in the USA on a regular basis? At the present time I use Rhinolast(astelin) to prevent inflammation as I have not found the steroid nasal sprays very effective because of severe allergies. I would be grateful if you could let me know what product you buy that contains the Guaifenesin . Thanks Heather

Response:

Mike Collins <mikeheath…@oakwellmount.freeserve.co.uk

wrote I am very interested in the Singulaire. When this was announced on the UK news not long ago the asthma helplines were jammed wth people ringing up

for

information. I was seeing my ENT at the time and asked him if this would

be

suitable ( Leucotreine antagonist). He had’nt heard the news but he was

very

interested.  Is Singulaire used in the USA on a regular basis? At the present time I use Rhinolast(astelin) to prevent inflammation as I have not found the steroid nasal sprays very effective because of severe allergies. I would be grateful if you could

let

me know what product you buy that contains the Guaifenesin . Thanks Heather

Yes, Singulaire is used regularly here but for asthma, not for sinusitis though I find it does help with that as well.  There is some controversy over the Singulaire as to whether it causes Churg-Strauss syndrome but that is something that only asthmatics get anyway.  I like the Singulaire because it works better for my asthma than the other anti-leucotreine’s did.  Accolate is another of them that did also help my sinusitis though it must be taken twice a day and Singulaire is only once a day. I never found the streoid nasal sprays helped at all.   I have a prescription for the Guaifenesin.  It is for 1200mg twice a day. I actually only take 300 mg twice a day.  They are 600mg tablets and I cut them in half.  My sinuses would like the whole 1200 but my asthma does not – it causes problems. Here in the US you can buy Guaifenesin under the name Robitussin.  They have several products and only one of them is the Guaifenesin without other things added. I don’t know if you have Robitussin in the UK or not but here it is over the counter. Loki

Response:

Sue milham <suemil…@aol.com

wrote in article I’d like to know that too. How??

Several things. 1.  Irrigation – daily – I just got the Grossan (sp?) tip to try it out 2.  I also have asthma and the Singulaire I take for that helps the sinuses as well 3.  Pau ‘D Arco – I take it daily.  It’s a herb that I drink as a tea and it keeps the infections to almost none at all.  I take it in higher doses if I do get an infection and it cures it faster than antibiotics. 4.  Guaifenesin – taken daily to keep the mucus thined out and flowing 5.  Two sinus surgeries a few years back – one to correct a deviated septum and the other to trim the turbinates. All of this (well, maybe not the herb) things discussed regularly here. Loki – noting she does not sell herbs

Response:

Pau ‘D Arco

I had no idea this was so good!  I’ve had some in my cupboard for months but didn’t think to use it for sinusitis,

Response:

Fritz96 <frit…@aol.commmm

wrote in article Pau ‘D Arco I had no idea this was so good!  I’ve had some in my cupboard for months

but

didn’t think to use it for sinusitis,

Yep, if you’re using the loose herb be sure to *boil* it for 20 minutes. Don’t let it sit longer than that without straining it or it will taste bitter. I take 3 cups a day for an active infection and keep it up for about a week though symptoms clear in around 3 days. Loki

Response:

Paula Burch <pbu…@mbcr.bcm.tmc.edu

wrote in article

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Please tell us more about this Pau d’Arco. I’ve found that many people credit an herb with benefits that are actually due to another change made at the same time; if, however, the herb really does have an effect as a drug in itself, it could be quite valuable, so it bears looking into. Did you make any other changes at the same time as you began using the Pau D’arco? Did you have continuing problems after starting the guaifenesin, Singulair, and irrigation, for a significant period of time, that were then apparently cleared up by starting the Pau d’Arco? Many people find that they do not need antibiotics to clear up sinus infections, if they use guaifenesin and irrigation and have had anatomical problems resolved via surgery. Have you tried doing everything else right, and not using Pau d’Arco? How many infections per given period of time do you get while doing everything else right, but not using Pau D’arco, as compared to doing all of the above plus the Pau D’arco?

I was doing everything else first and then added the Pau ‘D Arco.  My last surgery was 6 years ago.  I’ve been irrigating since then as well as using the guaifenesin.  I didn’t start the Singulaire till after the Pau ‘D Arco, but I had used Accolate for about a year before I found the herb.  The Singulaire just replaced the Accolate and gave no added improvement.  The Singulaire was started 6 months after I found the herb. Before the herb, I was still having about 3 or 4 sinus infections a year, which was much, much better than the constant one I had for 9 months prior to surgery. I did see some improvement with each change I made but the best I got it to was the 3 or 4 a year.   I started the Pau ‘D Arco during an infection that I couldn’t get rid of with normal antibiotics.  The sinus infection had wreaked havoc with my asthma as well.  I was on prednisone for that to the point that my adrenals started to give me grief.   I had gone through 3 courses of antibiotics and was irrigating and still couldn’t get rid of it.  A friend told me about the Pau ‘D Arco and I tried it.  I’m an herbalist but this one was new to me. I used 3 cups a day and after 3 days was feeling fine and had few symptoms.  I kept using it for 10 days and the infection cleared. Now, I take it daily but only one cup a day.  I don’t get sinus infections on their own at all and it’s been a year.  I did pick up a cold though and got the beginnings of an infection which went away when I upped the herb to 3 cups a day.  That only happened once though. Loki

Response:

What I’m wondering is about getting active properties in the herb.  What brand do you buy?  Have you tried capsules?  I have tried so many folk remedies, ie herbs, that have just not done a thing for me.  Maybe they have not been fresh? "loki" <l…@inlink.com

Date: Wed, Mar 10, 1999 9:33 PM wrote:

I was doing everything else first and then added the Pau ‘D Arco.  My last

surgery was 6 years ago.  I’ve been irrigating since then as well as using the guaifenesin.  I didn’t start the Singulaire till after the Pau ‘D Arco, but I had used Accolate for about a year before I found the herb.  The Singulaire just replaced the Accolate and gave no added improvement.  The Singulaire was started 6 months after I found the herb. Before the herb, I was still having about 3 or 4 sinus infections a year, which was much, much better than the constant one I had for 9 months prior to surgery. I did see some improvement with each change I made but the best I got it to was the 3 or 4 a year.   I started the Pau ‘D Arco during an infection that I couldn’t get rid of with normal antibiotics.  The sinus infection had wreaked havoc with my asthma as well.  I was on prednisone for that to the point that my adrenals started to give me grief.   I had gone through 3 courses of antibiotics and was irrigating and still couldn’t get rid of it.  A friend told me about the Pau ‘D Arco and I tried it.  I’m an herbalist but this one was new to me. I used 3 cups a day and after 3 days was feeling fine and had few symptoms.  I kept using it for 10 days and the infection cleared. Now, I take it daily but only one cup a day.  I don’t get sinus infections on their own at all and it’s been a year.  I did pick up a cold though and got the beginnings of an infection which went away when I upped the herb to 3 cups a day.  That only happened once though. Loki<< Sue M.

Response:

After Loki’s recommendation last week I went out and bought Pau D’Arco is a liquid extract form.  They said it was the next best thing to brewing it yourself, and better than capsules.  I’ve been on anti-biotics for a few weeks, but I must say it’ been the past few days that I’ve really felt better, so maybe it is the herb.

Response:

Sue milham <suemil…@aol.com

wrote in article What I’m wondering is about getting active properties in the herb.  What

brand

do you buy?  Have you tried capsules?  I have tried so many folk

remedies, ie

herbs, that have just not done a thing for me.  Maybe they have not been

fresh? WARNING – SOAPBOX AHEAD! Many herbs should not be taken in capsule form.  It is highly profitable for the herbal industry to sell them that way but it is most often not the most effective way to take an herb. Each herb is different and must be prepared differently.  Pau ‘D Arco’s active properties cannot be extracted by the human body in usable form but for some reason if you either boil it (prepare a decoction) or use a cold extract (tincture or liquid extract) you get what you need. Also, freshness is paramount and I find that frequently the herbs are just too old.  I have found one shop in St. Louis where I live that I can trust to supply quality, fresh herbs.  Many others sell herbs that are just plain old.  I almost never buy capsules but buy the herb in bulk and prepare teas or sometimes tinctures from that. Also, with capsules you just don’t know how much of there herb you are getting.  If you use the same supplier I find that over time their herbs are generally of consistent quality and strength.   Now, the biggest gripe I  have with the whole herbal industry is the "herb of the month" syndrome.  Every so often an herb becomes fashionable and it’s everywhere and every clerk in every health food store is pushing it. Sorry, but it doesn’t work that way.   Each herb has it’s specific uses and while several may work on a given complaint, one will generally be better for it than others though there are exceptions.  The currently popular herb, Kava Kava is an excellent example. It is being pushed as a tranquilizer but that is not it’s main action.  It is used in it’s native land as a hospitality drink and it works the same way there that liquor works here.  It lowers inhibitions and does produce a very nice feeling. For an herb to sooth frazzled nerves, skullcap is much more effective. If folks want to use herbs I’m all for that but I do want them to do their research and not just get what is fashionable or what one book said.  If you can find a qualified herbalist, I urge you to consult them.  If not, at least read up on it in several different sources. The last reason many herbal remedies don’t work is that the doseage is too low.  The books I have all say to use 1 teaspoon per cup and I use 1 tablespoon per cup.  The books are written to avoid lawsuits from ill informed people so they always understate the dose to avoid problems. Trouble is it is frequently too low to be effective.  Of course, if you have an effective dose, you have to think about interactions and contraindications and that isn’t sexy and doesn’t sell books or herbs. Loki

Response:

Fritz96 <frit…@aol.commmm

wrote in article After Loki’s recommendation last week I went out and bought Pau D’Arco is

a

liquid extract form.  They said it was the next best thing to brewing it yourself, and better than capsules.  I’ve been on anti-biotics for a few

weeks,

but I must say it’ been the past few days that I’ve really felt better,

so

maybe it is the herb.

Yep, if you can’t brew it, this is a good option.  Be sure to take it every day and to clear an active infection, take it 3 times a day. I haven’t found any interactions or contraindications with this particular herb. It’s very, very safe.  It also tastes good as a tea – kinda a vanilla flavor. Loki

Response:

Hi, Loki, just wondering, when I take the liquid extract, does it make a difference if I mix it in with a drink, or just squirt it straight into my mouth? Thanks

Response:

Fritz96 <frit…@aol.commmm

wrote in article Hi, Loki, just wondering, when I take the liquid extract, does it make a difference if I mix it in with a drink, or just squirt it straight into

my

mouth?

I’d recommend mixing it into juice or water.   Loki

Response:

Okay, I just got some Pau d’arco today and while brewing it smells just like sassafrass.  Don’t know if there is any connection.  Gonna try it along with the Trovan, since it seems iffy, now on day 5. "loki" <l…@inlink.com

Date: Sat, Mar 13, 1999 10:33 PM wrote: Fritz96 <frit…@aol.commmm

wrote in article Hi, Loki, just wondering, when I take the liquid extract, does it make a difference if I mix it in with a drink, or just squirt it straight into

my

mouth?

I’d recommend mixing it into juice or water.   Loki<< Sue M.

Response:

Sue milham <suemil…@aol.com

wrote in article Okay, I just got some Pau d’arco today and while brewing it smells just

like

sassafrass.  Don’t know if there is any connection.  Gonna try it along

with

the Trovan, since it seems iffy, now on day 5.

Nope, no connection except they’re both trees… Please let us know how it works. Loki

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My anxiety/panic attacks are actually a lot better than they use to be.  My depression isn’t as intense as it was say a couple of months ago either.  Right now, my biggest problem seems to be obsessive thoughts that I cannot get out of my mind.  For example, I called a lady friend of mine night before last and she still hasn’t called me back.  She normally calls be back shortly after I call her.  This evening I have gotten myself all worked up about her not calling, thinking that she doesn’t like me anymore or is mad at me about something.  Does anyone else experience this obsessive type of thinking?  Is it part of anxiety or is it possibly a deeper problem?  Take care and happy Easter. Yes. A thought goes through my mind and it circulates and intensifies and it becomes very hard to get rid of. At times the thoughts are very positive obsessions (now that the Zoloft is lifting the depression); other times they are negative obsessions. It could be part of anxiety or depression IMO. The Zoloft has merely transferred them more often to the "positive zone." Of course, you constantly have to work to break those negative cycles. Don’t simmer on anything but positive obsessions.

Hello Marie, Thanks for your reply.  Obsessing about things is a big problem with me.  It seems everyday I am obsessing about some new thought or worry. I have been really bad for this for about six years now.  Sometimes I’ll get so worked up I’ll be just beside myself and don’t know what to do.  When I get like this Seroquel PRN seems to be really helpful. Anyways, thanks again for your reply.  Take care. Chris Hecker

Response:

Hello group, I have been struggling with anxiety pretty much my entire adult life. In addition to anxiety I also suffer from depression, possibly bi-polar.  The meds that I am curently on are Effexor XR- 150 mg Seroquel – 50 mg HS Inderal (to counteract shaking caused by my meds) 40 mg Lithium carbonate – 600 mg HS My anxiety/panic attacks are actually a lot better than they use to be.  My depression isn’t as intense as it was say a couple of months ago either.  Right now, my biggest problem seems to be obsessive thoughts that I cannot get out of my mind.  For example, I called a lady friend of mine night before last and she still hasn’t called me back.  She normally calls be back shortly after I call her.  This evening I have gotten myself all worked up about her not calling, thinking that she doesn’t like me anymore or is mad at me about something.  Does anyone else experience this obsessive type of thinking?  Is it part of anxiety or is it possibly a deeper problem?  Take care and happy Easter. Chris H. Internet Security 101 – http://www.internetsecurity101.net

Response:

My anxiety/panic attacks are actually a lot better than they use to be.  My depression isn’t as intense as it was say a couple of months ago either.  Right now, my biggest problem seems to be obsessive thoughts that I cannot get out of my mind.  For example, I called a lady friend of mine night before last and she still hasn’t called me back.  She normally calls be back shortly after I call her.  This evening I have gotten myself all worked up about her not calling, thinking that she doesn’t like me anymore or is mad at me about something.  Does anyone else experience this obsessive type of thinking?  Is it part of anxiety or is it possibly a deeper problem?  Take care and happy Easter.

Yes. A thought goes through my mind and it circulates and intensifies and it becomes very hard to get rid of. At times the thoughts are very positive obsessions (now that the Zoloft is lifting the depression); other times they are negative obsessions. It could be part of anxiety or depression IMO. The Zoloft has merely transferred them more often to the "positive zone." Of course, you constantly have to work to break those negative cycles. Don’t simmer on anything but positive obsessions.

Response:

Question:

Added benefits of pre-surgery:  bone scan and cat scan.  Bone scan found my arthritis (I could have told them), cat scan found a an unknown, unexplained lurker in my gut:  a leiomyoma, which is a benign intestinal tumor.  One out of 15 are discovered before autopsy…  Mine was 5 * 7 * 10 cc; described as the size of a baby’s head.  Leiomyoma was removed at the same time as the Prostate

John,     Wow ….. What a break. Bet you never thought you’d say you were "lucky" to get PCa!! What’s the deal with that leiomyoma? Could it have grown and caused blockage problems down the road?     Oh, my congrats on Mr. Happy. I hope to be posting the same info soon. Tom RRP 12/12/02

Response:

 What’s the deal with that leiomyoma? Could it have grown and caused blockage problems down the road? Tom RRP 12/12/02

Yeah.  It WAS causing problems, and as I think back, it was leaking a bit of blood.  Eventually it would have been found without killing me first )   I’m glad that my trusty Urologist was following the instruction manual for dealing with PCa.  He said that he liked to do the CAT scan because once in a while he picked up a kidney cancer.  He found garbage in my case, but, as Ripley says in the first Alien Movie, "lucky-lucky-lucky." John. —-== Posted via Newsfeed.Com – Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==—- http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups —= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers – Total Privacy via Encryption =—

Response:

What’s the deal with that leiomyoma? Could it have grown and caused blockage problems down the road? Tom RRP 12/12/02

oh … and the surgeon who put my gut back together said that the leiomyoma tumors are slow-growing.  It would take several years to get to the size of a golf-ball.  I guess that sucker was in there for 20-30 years getting bigger and bigger )  I was one of those ‘interesting cases.’ John. —-== Posted via Newsfeed.Com – Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==—- http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups —= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers – Total Privacy via Encryption =—

Response:

Hi, John….. I was relieved of my prostate on November 21…. so in two days, I am expecting to see Mr. Happy standing at attention. )  Thanks for sharing your success with recovery.  It’s the one thing left I keep hoping for!  I don’t see it happening anytime soon….. unless it’s just a change *overnight*. Take care… and use it well….. MikeH

Well, I think it comes and goes…  That’s what I’ve read on the news group, and that seems to be the case with me.  But as the coach said, if you can run a 4 minute mile once, you can do it again.  Just keep practicing and don’t loose heart ) John. —-== Posted via Newsfeed.Com – Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==—- http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups —= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers – Total Privacy via Encryption =—

Response:

Hi, John….. I was relieved of my prostate on November 21…. so in two days, I am expecting to see Mr. Happy standing at attention. )  Thanks for sharing your success with recovery.  It’s the one thing left I keep hoping for!  I don’t see it happening anytime soon….. unless it’s just a change *overnight*. Take care… and use it well….. MikeH – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was relieved of the prostate 11/18/2002.  Started out with one or two pads, but was down to one pad after a week.  Quit the pads on the weekends about 2 months post op, and went work on a Monday at about 3 months, forgetting the pad (as it worked for Dumbo, it worked for me ;o), but I did not need the crows to tell me that I could fly.) The ‘one thing’ that had been old-reliable since 18 months did not function…  I got a script of vitamin V as my kindly Urologist refers to it…  No blue vision, occasional headaches, and a pathetic boner (like Harry Potter:  no bone, but flexible)  Was also taking an anti-depressant (Paxil) classed as SSRI, widely known by pharmacists and psychatrists as a doggie-downer; anti-depressant was to treat the lump in the throat that developed concomitant with the dx of prostate cancer.  Changed to Lexapro, a less potent SSRI anti-depressant, but still no cigar ;o)  On the advise of a pharmacist friend, skipped the Lexapro last night and bingo-bongo-sproingo.  Not quite Mr Happy, but certainly not mister Jell-O: it was insertion quality for sure.

Response:

hi john – thanks for the progress report.  that’s pretty quick recovery for my happy.  i hope to be so lucky. it’s interesting, you mention that you had such a large prostate.  mine was about 30cc. but FELT like 65cc.  reminds you of the joke.  oh, it’s six on hand.  no, it’s five on one hand.  then when you get on the table and the doctor sticks his hand up there.  you know, it feels like six on one hand   ~ curtis knowledge is power – growing old is mandatory – growing wise is optional

Response:

  Was also taking an anti-depressant (Paxil) classed as SSRI, widely known by pharmacists and psychatrists

as a doggie-downer; anti-depressant was to treat the lump in the throat that developed concomitant with the dx of prostate cancer.  Changed to Lexapro, a less potent SSRI anti-depressant, but still no cigar ;o)  On the advise of a pharmacist friend, skipped the Lexapro last night and bingo-bongo-sproingo.  Not quite Mr Happy, but certainly not mister Jell-O: it was insertion quality for sure. Now to get off the SSRI (Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitor) and

onto a different anti-depressant. Happy to hear that both you and Mr. Happy are happy……as that side of things is not in my sphere of experience…..grin!! As to SSRI drugs, I know a lot about them because my daughter has a serotonin deficiency and has to take them.  There are roughly 30 different brands, of which Paxil, Zoloft, Effexor, Welbutrin, and Luvox are the more well known ones.  They are all newer derivatives of Prozac to my knowledge, but our good doctor on this group can better inform you. E. has been on Luvox (horrible fatigue), Welbutrin (stopped working) and now Effexor, which is working quite well as it attacks the problem from a different angle.  And each one worked for about 2 years, then she had to switch.  And every darn one of them has a lot of side effects!! So speak to your doctor…….or better yet, your pharmacist…..and see if there isn’t one that won’t be a ‘doggie downer’.  E. does not have that problem (G).  But as these SSRI drugs seem to be for chemical deficiencies, perhaps there is a totally different anti-depressant that will do in the meantime, that won’t interfere with Mr. Happy. Just my 2 Cdn. cents worth……and if you can manage without them…..go for it.  I refuse to take any myself at the moment and am doing OK without them.  If I need a pill temporarily, I will certainly take one though.  My rant on here last week got rid of a lot of it…..grin.   (thanks, people) The way I look at it is that ‘depression’ is a not an abnormal thing when life is tough, and unless it *really* interferes with your enjoyment of life, it will get better on its own.  I am not a doctor…..but on the flip side, I have seen the amazing difference in E’s life and also my sister’s……as she is battling the same Cheers…….Heather – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Way to go, John You just keep on smiling. We will know why. Lee – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – it was insertion quality for sure. Mr. Happy is the better anti-depressant. You’d better believe it.  They can’t chisel the slight smile off my face today ) John. — Steve Kramer PSA 16 10/17/2000 Dx 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c PSA  .1  .1  .1  .27  .37  .75 Radiation MAY – JUL 2002 PSA  .34  .22  .15  .21 —-== Posted via Newsfeed.Com – Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==—- http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups —= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers – Total Privacy via Encryption

=—

Response:

it was insertion quality for sure. Mr. Happy is the better anti-depressant.

You’d better believe it.  They can’t chisel the slight smile off my face today ) John. — Steve Kramer PSA 16 10/17/2000 Dx 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c PSA  .1  .1  .1  .27  .37  .75 Radiation MAY – JUL 2002 PSA  .34  .22  .15  .21

—-== Posted via Newsfeed.Com – Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==—- http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups —= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers – Total Privacy via Encryption =—

Response:

The ‘one thing’ that had been old-reliable since 18 months did not function…  I got a script of vitamin V as my kindly Urologist refers to it…  No blue vision, occasional headaches, and a pathetic boner (like Harry Potter:  no bone, but flexible)  Was also taking an anti-depressant (Paxil) classed as SSRI, widely known by pharmacists and psychatrists as a doggie-downer; anti-depressant was to treat the lump in the throat that developed concomitant with the dx of prostate cancer.  Changed to Lexapro, a less potent SSRI anti-depressant, but still no cigar ;o)  On the advise of a pharmacist friend, skipped the Lexapro last night and bingo-bongo-sproingo.  Not quite Mr Happy, but certainly not mister Jell-O: it was insertion quality for sure.

Mr. Happy is the better anti-depressant. — Steve Kramer PSA 16 10/17/2000 Dx 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c PSA  .1  .1  .1  .27  .37  .75 Radiation MAY – JUL 2002 PSA  .34  .22  .15  .21

Response:

I was relieved of the prostate 11/18/2002.  Started out with one or two pads, but was down to one pad after a week.  Quit the pads on the weekends about 2 months post op, and went work on a Monday at about 3 months, forgetting the pad (as it worked for Dumbo, it worked for me ;o), but I did not need the crows to tell me that I could fly.) The ‘one thing’ that had been old-reliable since 18 months did not function…  I got a script of vitamin V as my kindly Urologist refers to it…  No blue vision, occasional headaches, and a pathetic boner (like Harry Potter:  no bone, but flexible)  Was also taking an anti-depressant (Paxil) classed as SSRI, widely known by pharmacists and psychatrists as a doggie-downer; anti-depressant was to treat the lump in the throat that developed concomitant with the dx of prostate cancer.  Changed to Lexapro, a less potent SSRI anti-depressant, but still no cigar ;o)  On the advise of a pharmacist friend, skipped the Lexapro last night and bingo-bongo-sproingo.  Not quite Mr Happy, but certainly not mister Jell-O: it was insertion quality for sure. Now to get off the SSRI (Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitor) and onto a different anti-depressant. Physical Specs:  Age 60, fairly good health, Gleason was about 6, 1Tc (or whatever the arragement of letters and numbers is) psa between 3.75 and just over 4.0 at time of discovery.  Large prostate at 65 cc, one core out of 12 positive (but with a prostate the size of a large lemon/small grapefruit, finding the CA in that haystack was luck).  Added benefits of pre-surgery:  bone scan and cat scan.  Bone scan found my arthritis (I could have told them), cat scan found a an unknown, unexplained lurker in my gut:  a leiomyoma, which is a benign intestinal tumor.  One out of 15 are discovered before autopsy…  Mine was 5 * 7 * 10 cc; described as the size of a baby’s head.  Leiomyoma was removed at the same time as the Prostate; was in the hospital for 6 days, and gained 20 pounds of water weight. With a grandfather who died of prostate cancer at age 65, early detection is a good thing in my case… My 20 cents. John. —-== Posted via Newsfeed.Com – Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==—- http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups —= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers – Total Privacy via Encryption =—

Response:

Question:

Hello Jeff, Seroxat and Paxil are two names for the same drug. The name Seroxat is used in the UK and Paxil, I believe, is what it’s called in the US. Sorry about the confusion. Before the cross posters arrived, quite suddenly it appeared, this was a great group. I started posting on 13th of December last and found that the group helped me greatly over the overwhelmingly miserable period during Christmas and the New Year. What I’m leading up to is that reading the post here and better still posting messages is highly therapeutic and is what I would recommend that you do but sadly the group no longer functions the way it did. Cormac’s suggestion is a good one if you can find a support group. I’m certain there are many such groups in the US but a lot depends on the nature of the support group and the particular way you interact with such a group. We are all different and I can go to a support group here in Dublin but I’m not at all happy with the way it’s run. The fella who set up the group effectively controls the group and I object strongly to this but am afraid to say anything to the psychologist in the hospital where the support group is based about the situation as I see it. The fella who runs the support group and the psychologist are great friends and if I said anything I can almost hear the psychologist ask me now why do I feel this way and I’m sure I would get nowhere and end up banging my head off the wall. Be wary in support groups. You will meet all types and I know from personal experience you may meet folks there who will use you if the conditions are right for that. That is exactly what happened to me. A long time member of the group homed in on me and ended up bullying me in a most insidious way. So, Jeff, beware in the support group setting. As the student who was treating me using CBT told me as she told me I could join the support I would meet all types in the support group. I thought what a strange thing to say. Are we not all on each other’s side I asked myself. The frightening answer is no. Peter Nolan. To email please remove x from xpeter…@gofree.indigo.ie

Response:

Hello Jeff, I’m attempting to send the message below a second time. It never made it first time round. — Peter Nolan. To email please remove x from xpeter…@gofree.indigo.ie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Hello Jeff, Seroxat and Paxil are two names for the same drug. The name Seroxat is

used

in the UK and Paxil, I believe, is what it’s called in the US. Sorry about the confusion. Before the cross posters arrived, quite suddenly it appeared, this was a great group. I started posting on 13th of December last and found that the group helped me greatly over the overwhelmingly miserable period during Christmas and the New Year. What I’m leading up to is that reading the

post

here and better still posting messages is highly therapeutic and is what I would recommend that you do but sadly the group no longer functions the

way

it did. Cormac’s suggestion is a good one if you can find a support group. I’m certain there are many such groups in the US but a lot depends on the

nature

of the support group and the particular way you interact with such a

group.

We are all different and I can go to a support group here in Dublin but

I’m

not at all happy with the way it’s run. The fella who set up the group effectively controls the group and I object strongly to this but am afraid to say anything to the psychologist in the hospital where the support

group

is based about the situation as I see it. The fella who runs the support group and the psychologist are great friends and if I said anything I can almost hear the psychologist ask me now why do I feel this way and I’m

sure

I would get nowhere and end up banging my head off the wall. Be wary in support groups. You will meet all types and I know from

personal

experience you may meet folks there who will use you if the conditions are right for that. That is exactly what happened to me. A long time member of the group homed in on me and ended up bullying me in a most insidious way. So, Jeff, beware in the support group setting. As the student who was treating me using CBT told me as she told me I could join the support I would meet all types in the support group. I thought what a strange thing

to

say. Are we not all on each other’s side I asked myself. The frightening answer is no. Peter Nolan. To email please remove x from xpeter…@gofree.indigo.ie

Response:

Check the website  www.socialanxietyinstitute.org I find it extremly helpful. Consider joining a support group – mentioned in the web site. Jeff <jeff9…@hotmail.com

wrote in message

news:7eb49709.0204152150.287da20e@posting.google.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

I’m not sure anyone will see this or respond, but at minimum this posting will let me organize my thoughts and try to explain my situation. I’m male, 31 years old, and have lived with debilitating social anxiety for as long as I can remember, long before there were slick TV commercials for marginally effective pharmaceuticals to treat the disorder. I saw my first psychiatrist when I was 18, who told me I was a nice guy and would have a great life, just stop worrying so much.  By the time I was 24 I finally worked up the courage to talk to a doctor about my depression and social anxiety, and went through the usual suspects with less than impressive results: Zoloft, Serzone, Effexor, Moclobemide.  Then I contracted mono (great, what were the chances of that for a 27 year old virgin).  That completely knocked me out for several months.  Through my doctor, I finally got a referral to a good psychiatrist who diagnosed me with social anxiety disorder, generalized anxiety disorder and depression.  He put me on Parnate and Klonopin, and I was pleasantly surprised, because I actually felt better than I’d ever felt in my entire life.  I looked forward to my day… the pounding heart and sweaty palms went away, I didn’t think everyone was staring at me, and I could go out to social functions without getting incredibly nervous. The dietary restrictions for Parnate were a minor inconvenience. So were the sleep disturbances/minor insomnia.  My life became almost normal.  I went out with friends.  I know, I know, you aren’t supposed to feel better just from meds… it takes lots of CBT and hard work.  My experience, even with good therapists says that is not true.  I’ve read the books, and understand all the distortions and negative thought patterns that pass through my mind.  But being aware of them, and being able to get them under control are two separate things.  I just have this brain chemistry that kicks in so strongly that the power of thought is not enough. One year later, after relocating to the US, I mentioned the insomnia to my doctor and she said it was caused by depression, and tripled the dose of Parnate, and also suggested ECT, which I declined.  I didn’t sleep properly for days, and got extremely sick with a bacterial infection, probably because I was so tired and my immune system went on a vacation.  It scared me so much that I took myself off Parnate and Klonopin (tapered) without consulting my doctor, who I no longer trusted. This was the worst decision of my life (and I’ve made a lot of bad decisions).  After a few weeks, I quickly realized my error after I started returning to my old ways of hiding out in my apartment avoiding everyone.  Since then, I’ve been dragged through unsuccessful courses of Prozac, Effexor (yuck) and Wellbutrin (double yuck).  I can tolerate side effects, but generally expect to feel better rather than worse.  That all ended about two years ago, when I gave up on meds and doctors who have a kneejerk reaction of try Paxil… try Effexor… or whatever drug-du-jour is being peddled. So I’ve put myself in a terrible position.  The only thing that ever worked for me was a MAOI, and nobody wants to prescribe that.  Or a scheduled drug like Klonopin.  Probably now I’m profiled as exhibiting drug-seeking behavior.  But that seems odd since I have old unused prescriptions for both of the above sitting in the back of my medicine cabinet, as well as random assortments of various drugs sufficient to kill a horse. So, two years of being med-free, practicing meditation daily, and lots of aerobic exercise have not helped, and I am a complete isolated hopeless nervous mess.  When I went to my doctor last week for a sinus infection, I mentioned that I used to be on Parnate, and she said she couldn’t believe anyone prescribed that anymore, and proceeded to explain how great SSRIs are.  I just shut up, went home and took my antibiotics. I don’t know what to do.  Money is not an issue.  I just want to somehow get out of this mess.  I don’t look forward to anything… I can barely go out to buy groceries.  It really hurts me at work.  I may skip an old friend’s wedding because I don’t think I can handle it.  Not sure what to do.  I think good psychiatrists are hard to find- I can’t imagine anyone wanting to take on a case like mine. It seems like there is really no way out of this.  I’m just so tired of life being a constant struggle with getting nervous talking to anyone… I’m getting way too old for this. I’m not suicidal, but wouldn’t be terribly upset if I were run over by a truck tomorrow.  Yes, touching, I know. If you’ve made it this far, I apologize for my rambling. If you can think of any way to get out of this mess, let me know.  I can’t even think of a first step that isn’t destined for failure. Jeff psychiatrist I feel trapped in my apartment now and need help, but can’t figure out how to proceed.  My last attempt was several

Response:

Thanks Peter, Doug, and kicken for your thoughtful responses. I am going to get in touch with my doctor back in Canada, to see if he can help me out with some sort of letter of introduction. I had been a patient of his for several years, so there’s a good possibility he can help out.  Even the doctor in the US who tripled my dose of Parnate may be able to help out, and at least attest to the fact that I was doing okay.  I’m also going to write/phone local psychiatrists to determine if one of them has experience prescribing Parnate. Failing that, Peter mentioned a Seroxat/Paxil combo that I have not tried before, which sounds like it may be worth a try, though I am skeptical because of lack of success with anything other than a MAOI. The worst part is that the disease itself is a real hindrance to finding treatment, because my behavior is just so avoidant. Also, I always feel that it’s not taken seriously, like any of the more popular/trendy psychological disorders.  After all, I’m no threat to anyone, and I’m not experiencing any specific crisis.  At least now I have some concrete ideas on how to proceed – thanks all for the ideas on how to get out of this rut.   Jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -gd…@aug.com (Doug) wrote in message <news:3cbd5389.2725248@news.aug.com

… Jeff, At this point, it sounds like a plan would be to get back on the Parnate and Klonopin which you said you gave up on.  What are the possibilities of writing the doctor again who originally prescribed the Parnate and the Klonopin?  I believe s/he’s in another country now? so this may be impossible.  If you could and sent your posted letter with your cover letter, you might have a fairly good chance of at least getting a letter of introduction for another doctor.  This may be impractical, but what about trying to see the U.S. doctor who tripled the Parnate dose.  I mean there are at least 2 doctors who weren’t averse to prescribing Parnate and Klonopin for you.   The 2nd doctor could be a definite maybe.  Even if you can’t see this doctor because of distance, could you write a letter to her explaining what you’re going thru and request her to write a letter of introduction "To Whom It May Concern" (some unknown doctor as yet) that explains what you’ve tried, what worked and what her recommendation is. I did this when I relocated to another state in the U.S. several months ago and the introductory letter did help.  I’ve been able to continue taking the same meds, but I’m under a little tighter control right now than I was previously.  That could be changed by seeking out a new shrink or by possibly asking my new family GP if he’d be willing to take over the prescriptions. If none of the above is practical, you can write your own letter of introduction, using most, if not all of what you wrote in this post and make an appt. with a new psychiatrist.  Your post is very explicit so I’d include it too.  Good luck. Doug

Response:

Hi Jeff, I’m also 31 and have social phobia and depression probably my whole life. I’ve been on almost every med and combo and other treatments and Parnate is the only one to give some relief also. I do get frustrated at times about some side-effects and that it might not be working enough, then I go off and see how much worse I get and go back on. I would try finding a Dr. in your area that has experience prescribing MAOI’s. It’s rule of thumb to go back to what has helped in the past. I hope you find a good Dr. willing to give it to you and hope you feel better. I’ve been on and off of Parnate for almost a decade. I hope to get better to all the time. Take care B jeff9…@hotmail.com (Jeff) wrote in message

<news:7eb49709.0204152150.287da20e@posting.google.com

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I’m not sure anyone will see this or respond, but at minimum this posting will let me organize my thoughts and try to explain my situation. I’m male, 31 years old, and have lived with debilitating social anxiety for as long as I can remember, long before there were slick TV commercials for marginally effective pharmaceuticals to treat the disorder. I saw my first psychiatrist when I was 18, who told me I was a nice guy and would have a great life, just stop worrying so much.  By the time I was 24 I finally worked up the courage to talk to a doctor about my depression and social anxiety, and went through the usual suspects with less than impressive results: Zoloft, Serzone, Effexor, Moclobemide.  Then I contracted mono (great, what were the chances of that for a 27 year old virgin).  That completely knocked me out for several months.  Through my doctor, I finally got a referral to a good psychiatrist who diagnosed me with social anxiety disorder, generalized anxiety disorder and depression.  He put me on Parnate and Klonopin, and I was pleasantly surprised, because I actually felt better than I’d ever felt in my entire life.  I looked forward to my day… the pounding heart and sweaty palms went away, I didn’t think everyone was staring at me, and I could go out to social functions without getting incredibly nervous. The dietary restrictions for Parnate were a minor inconvenience. So were the sleep disturbances/minor insomnia.  My life became almost normal.  I went out with friends.  I know, I know, you aren’t supposed to feel better just from meds… it takes lots of CBT and hard work.  My experience, even with good therapists says that is not true.  I’ve read the books, and understand all the distortions and negative thought patterns that pass through my mind.  But being aware of them, and being able to get them under control are two separate things.  I just have this brain chemistry that kicks in so strongly that the power of thought is not enough. One year later, after relocating to the US, I mentioned the insomnia to my doctor and she said it was caused by depression, and tripled the dose of Parnate, and also suggested ECT, which I declined.  I didn’t sleep properly for days, and got extremely sick with a bacterial infection, probably because I was so tired and my immune system went on a vacation.  It scared me so much that I took myself off Parnate and Klonopin (tapered) without consulting my doctor, who I no longer trusted. This was the worst decision of my life (and I’ve made a lot of bad decisions).  After a few weeks, I quickly realized my error after I started returning to my old ways of hiding out in my apartment avoiding everyone.  Since then, I’ve been dragged through unsuccessful courses of Prozac, Effexor (yuck) and Wellbutrin (double yuck).  I can tolerate side effects, but generally expect to feel better rather than worse.  That all ended about two years ago, when I gave up on meds and doctors who have a kneejerk reaction of try Paxil… try Effexor… or whatever drug-du-jour is being peddled. So I’ve put myself in a terrible position.  The only thing that ever worked for me was a MAOI, and nobody wants to prescribe that.  Or a scheduled drug like Klonopin.  Probably now I’m profiled as exhibiting drug-seeking behavior.  But that seems odd since I have old unused prescriptions for both of the above sitting in the back of my medicine cabinet, as well as random assortments of various drugs sufficient to kill a horse. So, two years of being med-free, practicing meditation daily, and lots of aerobic exercise have not helped, and I am a complete isolated hopeless nervous mess.  When I went to my doctor last week for a sinus infection, I mentioned that I used to be on Parnate, and she said she couldn’t believe anyone prescribed that anymore, and proceeded to explain how great SSRIs are.  I just shut up, went home and took my antibiotics. I don’t know what to do.  Money is not an issue.  I just want to somehow get out of this mess.  I don’t look forward to anything… I can barely go out to buy groceries.  It really hurts me at work.  I may skip an old friend’s wedding because I don’t think I can handle it.  Not sure what to do.  I think good psychiatrists are hard to find- I can’t imagine anyone wanting to take on a case like mine. It seems like there is really no way out of this.  I’m just so tired of life being a constant struggle with getting nervous talking to anyone… I’m getting way too old for this. I’m not suicidal, but wouldn’t be terribly upset if I were run over by a truck tomorrow.  Yes, touching, I know. If you’ve made it this far, I apologize for my rambling. If you can think of any way to get out of this mess, let me know.  I can’t even think of a first step that isn’t destined for failure. Jeff psychiatrist I feel trapped in my apartment now and need help, but can’t figure out how to proceed.  My last attempt was several

Response:

Jeff, At this point, it sounds like a plan would be to get back on the Parnate and Klonopin which you said you gave up on.  What are the possibilities of writing the doctor again who originally prescribed the Parnate and the Klonopin?  I believe s/he’s in another country now? so this may be impossible.  If you could and sent your posted letter with your cover letter, you might have a fairly good chance of at least getting a letter of introduction for another doctor.  This may be impractical, but what about trying to see the U.S. doctor who tripled the Parnate dose.  I mean there are at least 2 doctors who weren’t averse to prescribing Parnate and Klonopin for you.   The 2nd doctor could be a definite maybe.  Even if you can’t see this doctor because of distance, could you write a letter to her explaining what you’re going thru and request her to write a letter of introduction "To Whom It May Concern" (some unknown doctor as yet) that explains what you’ve tried, what worked and what her recommendation is. I did this when I relocated to another state in the U.S. several months ago and the introductory letter did help.  I’ve been able to continue taking the same meds, but I’m under a little tighter control right now than I was previously.  That could be changed by seeking out a new shrink or by possibly asking my new family GP if he’d be willing to take over the prescriptions. If none of the above is practical, you can write your own letter of introduction, using most, if not all of what you wrote in this post and make an appt. with a new psychiatrist.  Your post is very explicit so I’d include it too.  Good luck. Doug On 15 Apr 2002 22:50:24 -0700, jeff9…@hotmail.com (Jeff) wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

I’m not sure anyone will see this or respond, but at minimum this posting will let me organize my thoughts and try to explain my situation. I’m male, 31 years old, and have lived with debilitating social anxiety for as long as I can remember, long before there were slick TV commercials for marginally effective pharmaceuticals to treat the disorder. I saw my first psychiatrist when I was 18, who told me I was a nice guy and would have a great life, just stop worrying so much.  By the time I was 24 I finally worked up the courage to talk to a doctor about my depression and social anxiety, and went through the usual suspects with less than impressive results: Zoloft, Serzone, Effexor, Moclobemide.  Then I contracted mono (great, what were the chances of that for a 27 year old virgin).  That completely knocked me out for several months.  Through my doctor, I finally got a referral to a good psychiatrist who diagnosed me with social anxiety disorder, generalized anxiety disorder and depression.  He put me on Parnate and Klonopin, and I was pleasantly surprised, because I actually felt better than I’d ever felt in my entire life.  I looked forward to my day… the pounding heart and sweaty palms went away, I didn’t think everyone was staring at me, and I could go out to social functions without getting incredibly nervous. The dietary restrictions for Parnate were a minor inconvenience. So were the sleep disturbances/minor insomnia.  My life became almost normal.  I went out with friends.  I know, I know, you aren’t supposed to feel better just from meds… it takes lots of CBT and hard work.  My experience, even with good therapists says that is not true.  I’ve read the books, and understand all the distortions and negative thought patterns that pass through my mind.  But being aware of them, and being able to get them under control are two separate things.  I just have this brain chemistry that kicks in so strongly that the power of thought is not enough. One year later, after relocating to the US, I mentioned the insomnia to my doctor and she said it was caused by depression, and tripled the dose of Parnate, and also suggested ECT, which I declined.  I didn’t sleep properly for days, and got extremely sick with a bacterial infection, probably because I was so tired and my immune system went on a vacation.  It scared me so much that I took myself off Parnate and Klonopin (tapered) without consulting my doctor, who I no longer trusted. This was the worst decision of my life (and I’ve made a lot of bad decisions).  After a few weeks, I quickly realized my error after I started returning to my old ways of hiding out in my apartment avoiding everyone.  Since then, I’ve been dragged through unsuccessful courses of Prozac, Effexor (yuck) and Wellbutrin (double yuck).  I can tolerate side effects, but generally expect to feel better rather than worse.  That all ended about two years ago, when I gave up on meds and doctors who have a kneejerk reaction of try Paxil… try Effexor… or whatever drug-du-jour is being peddled. So I’ve put myself in a terrible position.  The only thing that ever worked for me was a MAOI, and nobody wants to prescribe that.  Or a scheduled drug like Klonopin.  Probably now I’m profiled as exhibiting drug-seeking behavior.  But that seems odd since I have old unused prescriptions for both of the above sitting in the back of my medicine cabinet, as well as random assortments of various drugs sufficient to kill a horse. So, two years of being med-free, practicing meditation daily, and lots of aerobic exercise have not helped, and I am a complete isolated hopeless nervous mess.  When I went to my doctor last week for a sinus infection, I mentioned that I used to be on Parnate, and she said she couldn’t believe anyone prescribed that anymore, and proceeded to explain how great SSRIs are.  I just shut up, went home and took my antibiotics. I don’t know what to do.  Money is not an issue.  I just want to somehow get out of this mess.  I don’t look forward to anything… I can barely go out to buy groceries.  It really hurts me at work.  I may skip an old friend’s wedding because I don’t think I can handle it.  Not sure what to do.  I think good psychiatrists are hard to find- I can’t imagine anyone wanting to take on a case like mine. It seems like there is really no way out of this.  I’m just so tired of life being a constant struggle with getting nervous talking to anyone… I’m getting way too old for this. I’m not suicidal, but wouldn’t be terribly upset if I were run over by a truck tomorrow.  Yes, touching, I know. If you’ve made it this far, I apologize for my rambling. If you can think of any way to get out of this mess, let me know.  I can’t even think of a first step that isn’t destined for failure. Jeff psychiatrist I feel trapped in my apartment now and need help, but can’t figure out how to proceed.  My last attempt was several

Response:

I’m not sure anyone will see this or respond, but at minimum this posting will let me organize my thoughts and try to explain my situation. I’m male, 31 years old, and have lived with debilitating social anxiety for as long as I can remember, long before there were slick TV commercials for marginally effective pharmaceuticals to treat the disorder. I saw my first psychiatrist when I was 18, who told me I was a nice guy and would have a great life, just stop worrying so much.  By the time I was 24 I finally worked up the courage to talk to a doctor about my depression and social anxiety, and went through the usual suspects with less than impressive results: Zoloft, Serzone, Effexor, Moclobemide.  Then I contracted mono (great, what were the chances of that for a 27 year old virgin).  That completely knocked me out for several months.  Through my doctor, I finally got a referral to a good psychiatrist who diagnosed me with social anxiety disorder, generalized anxiety disorder and depression.  He put me on Parnate and Klonopin, and I was pleasantly surprised, because I actually felt better than I’d ever felt in my entire life.  I looked forward to my day… the pounding heart and sweaty palms went away, I didn’t think everyone was staring at me, and I could go out to social functions without getting incredibly nervous. The dietary restrictions for Parnate were a minor inconvenience. So were the sleep disturbances/minor insomnia.  My life became almost normal.  I went out with friends.  I know, I know, you aren’t supposed to feel better just from meds… it takes lots of CBT and hard work.  My experience, even with good therapists says that is not true.  I’ve read the books, and understand all the distortions and negative thought patterns that pass through my mind.  But being aware of them, and being able to get them under control are two separate things.  I just have this brain chemistry that kicks in so strongly that the power of thought is not enough. One year later, after relocating to the US, I mentioned the insomnia to my doctor and she said it was caused by depression, and tripled the dose of Parnate, and also suggested ECT, which I declined.  I didn’t sleep properly for days, and got extremely sick with a bacterial infection, probably because I was so tired and my immune system went on a vacation.  It scared me so much that I took myself off Parnate and Klonopin (tapered) without consulting my doctor, who I no longer trusted. This was the worst decision of my life (and I’ve made a lot of bad decisions).  After a few weeks, I quickly realized my error after I started returning to my old ways of hiding out in my apartment avoiding everyone.  Since then, I’ve been dragged through unsuccessful courses of Prozac, Effexor (yuck) and Wellbutrin (double yuck).  I can tolerate side effects, but generally expect to feel better rather than worse.  That all ended about two years ago, when I gave up on meds and doctors who have a kneejerk reaction of try Paxil… try Effexor… or whatever drug-du-jour is being peddled. So I’ve put myself in a terrible position.  The only thing that ever worked for me was a MAOI, and nobody wants to prescribe that.  Or a scheduled drug like Klonopin.  Probably now I’m profiled as exhibiting drug-seeking behavior.  But that seems odd since I have old unused prescriptions for both of the above sitting in the back of my medicine cabinet, as well as random assortments of various drugs sufficient to kill a horse. So, two years of being med-free, practicing meditation daily, and lots of aerobic exercise have not helped, and I am a complete isolated hopeless nervous mess.  When I went to my doctor last week for a sinus infection, I mentioned that I used to be on Parnate, and she said she couldn’t believe anyone prescribed that anymore, and proceeded to explain how great SSRIs are.  I just shut up, went home and took my antibiotics. I don’t know what to do.  Money is not an issue.  I just want to somehow get out of this mess.  I don’t look forward to anything… I can barely go out to buy groceries.  It really hurts me at work.  I may skip an old friend’s wedding because I don’t think I can handle it.  Not sure what to do.  I think good psychiatrists are hard to find- I can’t imagine anyone wanting to take on a case like mine. It seems like there is really no way out of this.  I’m just so tired of life being a constant struggle with getting nervous talking to anyone… I’m getting way too old for this. I’m not suicidal, but wouldn’t be terribly upset if I were run over by a truck tomorrow.  Yes, touching, I know. If you’ve made it this far, I apologize for my rambling. If you can think of any way to get out of this mess, let me know.  I can’t even think of a first step that isn’t destined for failure. Jeff psychiatrist I feel trapped in my apartment now and need help, but can’t figure out how to proceed.  My last attempt was several

Response:

Hello Jeff, I read through your message to the end. I stay away from this group now because of the cross posting. I’m sorry to tell you there are no simple answers for anyone like you or me suffering from Social Phobia. If there were this great newsgroup that has been decimated by cross posters wouldn’t exist. The only thing you can be certain of is that you will continue to suffer unless something great happens to you which it could. For me being able to leave my so called home where I live with my cruel parents would be the breakthrough for me but that can’t happen yet and may never happen. You say money isn’t a problem. In that case as bad as things may seem to be you could be like me living at home with almost no money at all. I’m not being dismissive here. I understand perfectly well that the solution for each of us that would give us the greatest relief is different for all of us and just because you can do what I can’t which is to get away from my parents in no way means that you aren’t suffering as much as I am. My advice to you is to keep trying. You say you are not suicidal and neither am I by the way then you will keep going forever hoping that things will sort themselves out somehow and maybe they will. The root cause of Social Phobia isn’t at all understood and naturally this is a major problem. I think I have a handle on it in my own case and this helps but the psychological battering I take from my parents 24/7 prevents me from making the breakthroughs I could now make if I was out on my own. I’m 48 by the way. Many people in the group(as it used to be) get great relif from drugs like Seroxat/Paxil but there was a post I saw at one point where the subject line was "Paxil is a Monster". So while drugs work for some people and in many cases transform their lives this is not always the case, indeed far from it. Satellites orbit the earth and perform many functions for us like providing us with a great telecommunications system but sadly the drugs available today are so primitive that they can hardly be described as therapeutic although drugs like anti-biotics are first class compounds. The same cannot be said for other drugs as you almost certainly know yourself. All I can say is you will keep going and always looking out for a way out of this savage disorder that annihilates it’s victims. I’m sorry I can’t help you. Have you tried Seroxat/Paxil? Some people in the group swear by it! Drugs would have no effect on me. Peter Nolan. To email please remove x from xpeter…@gofree.indigo.ie

Response:

Question:

Wish i could give you answers….don’t have them.  Just keep fighting, scream when you can’t stand it and request a shoulder when you want one.

Thanks, feel much less down over it today, I guess most people on this newsgroup must have found it impossible to explain to nonmigrainers how they feel, its so nice to be able to speak to people who understand. Heres praying for a miracle (free) cure that will work for everyone. Liz

Response:

I got a look at paroxetine – it’s Paxil, one of the SSRI antidepressants. The others are Celexa/citralopram, Prozac/fluoxetine, Luvox/fluvoxamine, and Zoloft/sertraline. The amount of fatigue is least in Prozac and Luvox. Funny enough, Paxil generates the most yawning! But other side effects that, in you, might feel like fatigue, vary greatly among the five drugs. I really encourage you to get/buy the Drug Facts & Comparisons book. In my 2001 edition, the info you want is on pgs. 934 and 935. I’ve been on Prozac for 12 years, and for me, it doesn’t seem to cause a lot of noticeable fatigue. But with my sleep apnea, I might not be the best person to be measuring fatigue! Hope this helps! Ginnie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Couldn’t think of a better place to let off some steam and whine.  Just getting over a 3 day migraine, it tried to come back earlier today but went again quickly (that would have been 4 days). I’m taking 40mg of propranolol twice a day and 20mg of paroxetine (Seroxat/Paxil) once a day and 5mg of Maxalt as treatment (10mg and I pass out but I don’t get rebounds which I did with naramig).  I have a wierd form of migraine, the neurologist said that my lifelong appetite problems (didn’t get hungry, felt ill for lack of food, but not hungry, if I never hear are you anorexic again it won’t be too soon) and the balance problems and the migraines that go with it were due to an overall lack of serotonin.  All very well but his reason for that is that I shouldn’t have migraine symptoms for 2 months solid as soon as it gets hot in summer. I’m desperate now to find something that works without the side effects. Adding the paroxetine has stopped the balance problems, vertigo and difficulty judging horizontal distances too.  Means if I feel well enough to care about getting in the car, I’m fit to drive, I used to have to check to see if I could get down the stairs without holding, if I couldn’t I couldn’t drive, if I get car sick when I drive, I have to pull over and ditch the car.  Problem is that the paroxetine makes me extremely tired and if I exert myself one day I’m so tierd the next day I want to cry with exhaustion.  I get headaches with my migraines now, but their so much less unpleasant than the every other sense and my moods up the creek that I quite like them, and I don’t find myself banging my head against the wall because it helps now. If Ijust take the propranolol , well I reviewed my lab book and discovered that I’d been breaking health and safety regulations being in the lab about 1/3 of the time, little accidents, vertigo, mistery bruises from walking into things, nausea and bloating, constipation, diarrhea, mental confusion, anxiety and shear blind terror from feeling like I’m falling constantly. Won’t live like that again, wasn’t worth it.  Equally I’m having to change careers because I’ve been told I won’t get a good reference for lab work but I will for the nonlab based aspects. So any suggestions?  I can’t keep on with this little energy but I can’t stop the paroxetine without a suitable replacement. Thanks for listening Liz

Response:

Just want to tell you you’re not alone. Wish I knew what would give you some help w/o the paroxetine side effects, but I keep getting this benign vestibular thing that I’m not convinced is just inner ear architecture, and it’s no fun. I do hear you. The staircase test is a great idea! Thanks! You might hit a library or a pharmacist who has a copy of Drug Facts and Comparisons… mine’s on loan now, or I’d look it up for you. That book takes whole classes of similar drugs – like anticonvulsants, reviews them as a group, gives comparison charts for indications, labeled and off-label indications, relative activity, side effects, etc. It’s a great way to see your drug in comparison with the others like it, so you can possibly find a different one to try. That’s the book the docs and the pharmacists use, not just the PDA. You can buy it on amazon, for about $150

Question:

Hi, I’ve been sufferig from epilepsy for about 12 years now, trying all sorts of medications and combinations without getting any noticable improvement. A year ago I started a new combination that improved my condition greatly, Sodium Valperate 700mg 3 times a day & Lamictal 75mg twice a day. unfortunately it brought with it some very aggrevating sideaffects. Several months after starting that combination,my right forefinger started trembling uncontrolably, later my pinky started the same kind of tremble and at the moment I’m starting to develop the same kind of tremble in my left hand as well. This is a very light tremble (not like "Parkinson"), steel it is very disturbing. For example, it forces me to hold my forefinger with my thumb if I don’t use it while typing to prevent it from disturbing my conentartion (this is only one example). Does anybody have any experiance with the use of this combination ? If you do, let me know. Thanks, B.G

Response:

Your best bet is to have it checked out next time you see your doctor.  It may be side effects from your meds that could be easily corrected.  

Response:

Hi BG, My daughter Harley used to be on that combination and i`m afraid to say it made her very very poorly ;-( She used to get "tremors" with it…in fact she got so bad that her whole body shook. But she obviously had a bad reaction to it. Could it be breakthrough sz`s? She also tremors from the ep. Have you ever tried Topiramate?…When Harley had to be weaned off the Lamotrogine,she was put onto that. Although she still doesn`t have full control,it has been the best combo she has had,and at the moment seems to be doing really well(for her!). My youngest son Marshall has just started on Lamotrogine with Epilim too,so please wish me(him!) luck! I hope you get some answers,please let us all know how you get on. Lisa,James,Harley and Marshall ;0) Zvi Galil <g_…@netvision.net.il

wrote in message

news:8umj9e$g3u$2@news.netvision.net.il… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Hi, I’ve been sufferig from epilepsy for about 12 years now, trying all sorts

of

medications and combinations without getting any noticable improvement. A year ago I started a new combination that improved my condition greatly, Sodium Valperate 700mg 3 times a day & Lamictal 75mg twice a day. unfortunately it brought with it some very aggrevating sideaffects. Several months after starting that combination,my right forefinger started trembling uncontrolably, later my pinky started the same kind of tremble

and

at the moment I’m starting to develop the same kind of tremble in my left hand as well. This is a very light tremble (not like "Parkinson"), steel it is very disturbing. For example, it forces me to hold my forefinger with my thumb if I don’t

use

it while typing to prevent it from disturbing my conentartion (this is only one example). Does anybody have any experiance with the use of this combination ? If you do, let me know. Thanks, B.G

Response:

You may want to be checked out by your doctor to see if it is side effects of medication.  You may also want him/her to check and see if it is the neurological movement disorder called essential tremor.  I have this and it makes me shake uncontrollably like you are talking about.  Hope you get the help you need. Rounder3 <round…@aol.com

wrote in message

news:20001113102239.20750.00001376@ng-fd1.aol.com… | Your best bet is to have it checked out next time you see your doctor.  It may | be side effects from your meds that could be easily corrected.

Response:

Hi, I see that you’ve already got some good recommendations already. It helps to know that you’re not alone, doesn’t it? My nieces has epilepsy and I have narcolepsy. I was put on a drug many years ago which I thought was an answer to prayer. It was called NARDIL. I have heard that it’s been around for a long time and not used too much anymore because of it’s diet constraints. If one doesn’t follow the diet restrictions instructed while taking the drug it could cause stroke/heart attack at any age. Anyway, I felt great on it initially,….was awake and had energy during the day. THEN the weird facial palsy stuff started happening. First gradually, just at night a couple of times and then more often and happening during the day. I was scared and didn’t think about relating side-effects to the drug at first. Then another side-effect was that I *couldn’t* get more sleep than 4 hours at a time and my body became more and more exhausted. The drug wasn’t "letting" my brain have normal sleep anymore in reverse. Narcolepsy without medication is when you fall asleep ALL the time. Needless to say, I reported to my doctor and was taken off the drug. She told me that the side-effects I had did happen to some people when taking Nardil. Additionally, once I was given *Phenothyiasine* (sp?) when I was a teenager for "dry heaves" when I was extremely ill with the flu. Gross,…but I kept retching even when I didn’t have any more to throw up. (sorry for description) By end of day two on it, it was throughing me into seizures. So unfortunately, what you’re experiencing could be directly related to your medication, but as the others have urged,….it’s best to go to your doctor about it. Sara  :) Zvi Galil <g_…@netvision.net.il

wrote in message

news:8umj9e$g3u$2@news.netvision.net.il… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Hi, I’ve been sufferig from epilepsy for about 12 years now, trying all sorts

of

medications and combinations without getting any noticable improvement. A year ago I started a new combination that improved my condition greatly, Sodium Valperate 700mg 3 times a day & Lamictal 75mg twice a day. unfortunately it brought with it some very aggrevating sideaffects. Several months after starting that combination,my right forefinger started trembling uncontrolably, later my pinky started the same kind of tremble

and

at the moment I’m starting to develop the same kind of tremble in my left hand as well. This is a very light tremble (not like "Parkinson"), steel it is very disturbing. For example, it forces me to hold my forefinger with my thumb if I don’t

use

it while typing to prevent it from disturbing my conentartion (this is only one example). Does anybody have any experiance with the use of this combination ? If you do, let me know. Thanks, B.G

______________________________________________________________________ Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com – Still Only $9.95 – http://www.uncensored-news.com  With Servers In California, Texas And Virginia – The Worlds Uncensored News Source

Response:

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My name is Caz and I have been on antidepressants for five years for panic disorder, agoraphobia and generalised anxiety disorder.  I was extremely afraid of antidepressants as most anxiety sufferers are.  I was on Aropax for five years after being convinced by my doctor that I have a chemical imbalance and I managed quite well for two of those years, although I still had panic attacks but I learnt to put up with them. However the past year I have had a relapse with my anxiety and the Aropax was no longer working for me. My anxiety was getting so bad that I was thinking of suicide just to relieve the anxiety.  I am agoraphobic at the moment, so a psychiatrist has changed my medication to effexor.  I have read on the internet about Effexor and it seems to be the best medication for anxiety and depression.  I have only started the medication three days ago so I can’t tell you what kind of effect it has had on me yet, but if you would like to keep in touch, I can let you know of my progress.  I am also taking a low dose of Xanax to counteract the side effects of Effexor but my doctor insists that Xanax is easy to come off when done gradually.  I have been so bad lately that I will do anything to relieve the anxiety, since I would rather be alive and overcome it than dead and never know the outcome of my life. If I had it my way, I wouldn’t be on any medication at all but my brain does not function normally enough without the damn tablets. I am going to have ongoing psychological therapy as this is the second most important step in recovery. It will be a very slow process which I have been through before but it is easy to forget that people like us need ongoing help especially when we are beginning to feel better. Effexor is the only antidepressant that affects the serotonin and Norepinephrine chemicals in our brain, which means we have a better chance of recovery.  Have you looked up Effexor on the net?  It may help you to make a clearer decision. Please reply as I am interested in your response. Regards, Caz

In case you are curious, I have pulled some stuff from Doc’s bulliten boards and Medline on even further possibilities of combining a smaller dose of Effexor with an SSRI. It has been done very safely with good results. To me, it acts like a strong shield against depression and anxiety. As far as what you where saying about the dual action of Effexor…it’s really hard to tell. Only tou will know. I have to say this though..from the info I have read, and did myself, is VERY VERY slowly come onto it, as it can also mess up any anciety problems. Best wishes.. James

Response:

My name is Caz and I have been on antidepressants for five years for panic disorder, agoraphobia and generalised anxiety disorder.  I was extremely afraid of antidepressants as most anxiety sufferers are.  I was on Aropax for five years after being convinced by my doctor that I have a chemical imbalance and I managed quite well for two of those years, although I still had panic attacks but I learnt to put up with them.

Hi Caz and welcome to ASAP! You have come to the right place, we *all* suffer from anxiety disorders here. However the past year I have had a relapse with my anxiety and the Aropax was no longer working for me.

That’s the problem with SSRI-type antidepressants, they tend to poop out on you after an indefinite period of time. My anxiety was getting so bad that I was thinking of suicide just to relieve the anxiety.

BTDT… I am agoraphobic at the moment, so a psychiatrist has changed my medication to effexor.  I have read on the internet about Effexor and it seems to be the best medication for anxiety and depression.

Effexor is one of the newer antidepressants. Unfortunately there is *no* cure-all pill on the market (yet?) but Effexor is one of many good possibilities.  I have only started the medication three days ago so I can’t tell you what kind of effect it has had on me yet, but if you would like to keep in touch, I can let you know of my progress.

What dose are you on, Caz? It is advisable to *start low – go slow* in order to avoid or at least minimize initial side effects.  I am also taking a low dose of Xanax to counteract the side effects of Effexor but my doctor insists that Xanax is easy to come off when done gradually.

Xanax certainly is a first choice anxiolytic. When stopped it should be tapered off slowly as your doctor says. For some this is relatviely easy to do, for others it will be much more difficult. Most of our reactions to meds are very personal, there is no telling how you will do. But it is a good thing to have Xanax alongside Effexor. I have been so bad lately that I will do anything to relieve the anxiety, since I would rather be alive and overcome it than dead and never know the outcome of my life.

That’s the spirit! If I had it my way, I wouldn’t be on any medication at all but my brain does not function normally enough without the damn tablets.

Yeah….tell me about it… I am going to have ongoing psychological therapy as this is the second most important step in recovery. It will be a very slow process which I have been through before but it is easy to forget that people like us need ongoing help especially when we are beginning to feel better.

What kind of therapy are you doing? Experience has proven that most *talk therapy*, however helpful in other areas, as a rule doesn’t have much effect on panic symptoms. *Cognitive Behavioural Therapy* (CBT) on the other hand has a good track record with PAD and can relieve you of your worst agoraphobia rather quickly – how agoraphobic are you. are you actually housebound? Effexor is the only antidepressant that affects the serotonin and Norepinephrine chemicals in our brain, which means we have a better chance of recovery.  Have you looked up Effexor on the net?  It may help you to make a clearer decision.

There are several antidepressants (including old TCA’s) which work in different ways on both sertonin and norepinephrine receptors and there is no noted difference as regards success, partly because the etiology of PD isn’t quite understood as yet and neither are the workings of meds. It’s by and large a matter of trial and error. I hope Effexor will work for you. Please reply as I am interested in your response. Regards, Caz

Philip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

  Hi everyone .  I have been posting here quite a bit lately.  I saw the Psych Dr.  today.  I explained to him that I am terrified of meds but know theres no way around it at this point.  Ive had GAD/Depression for the past 3 years. Ive been getting weekly counseling.  I have a horrible fear of something going wrong wth my heart, health,etc… Very irrational.  So this med decision is really scaty for me .  I hear effexor can effect BLood Pressure.  I also dont want to get on something thats going to make me gain weight.  I know they all have there sides . My Dr wants me to take effexor .  He says its more apt to help me.  I was just getting use to the idea of celexa,luvox or even zoloft.  I obsess over ever symptom any way so I know This is going to be tough . I will start  one of these tomorrow.  Please let me know anything good or bad bout these meds.  Thank you so mu ch.!!!     Lissa

Response:

My name is Caz and I have been on antidepressants for five years for panic disorder, agoraphobia and generalised anxiety disorder.  I was extremely afraid of antidepressants as most anxiety sufferers are.  I was on Aropax for five years after being convinced by my doctor that I have a chemical imbalance and I managed quite well for two of those years, although I still had panic attacks but I learnt to put up with them. However the past year I have had a relapse with my anxiety and the Aropax was no longer working for me. My anxiety was getting so bad that I was thinking of suicide just to relieve the anxiety.  I am agoraphobic at the moment, so a psychiatrist has changed my medication to effexor.  I have read on the internet about Effexor and it seems to be the best medication for anxiety and depression.  I have only started the medication three days ago so I can’t tell you what kind of effect it has had on me yet, but if you would like to keep in touch, I can let you know of my progress.  I am also taking a low dose of Xanax to counteract the side effects of Effexor but my doctor insists that Xanax is easy to come off when done gradually.  I have been so bad lately that I will do anything to relieve the anxiety, since I would rather be alive and overcome it than dead and never know the outcome of my life. If I had it my way, I wouldn’t be on any medication at all but my brain does not function normally enough without the damn tablets. I am going to have ongoing psychological therapy as this is the second most important step in recovery. It will be a very slow process which I have been through before but it is easy to forget that people like us need ongoing help especially when we are beginning to feel better. Effexor is the only antidepressant that affects the serotonin and Norepinephrine chemicals in our brain, which means we have a better chance of recovery.  Have you looked up Effexor on the net?  It may help you to make a clearer decision. Please reply as I am interested in your response. Regards, Caz * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

Question:

get a Rx for Xanax ( generic name = alprazolam ) when this happens, take 2 mg right away give it 20 minutes to kick in I’m on 40 mg Paxil / day and it took a while to get going, but I would say 10 weeks is long enough.  Maybe you would do better on a different SSRI. There are a lot of them.  Ask your doctor about trying a different one. — Larry – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi! This is my first post so please be gentle! I’ve been on Seroxat(Paxil) (30mg/day) for about 10 weeks for panic attacks / depression… it seems to help (most of the time)… however there are still occasions where I lose control in a big way…. Over the last week, I’ve been experiencing a couple of times, what I can only describe as "electric shocks"… similar to a just before a panic attack but rather than lasting a second or two it lasts for hours… with "shocks" every 10-15 seconds. Last night was agony… I had an appointment … I couldn’t remember whether it was 6:15pm or 6:30pm… so walking there I stopped outside a newagents (to get a paper to read if I had to wait)… it was closed. I stopped… turned round waked away… stopped…  walked back… stopped… I felt an electric bolt on the inside of my left arm…. my heart starts to beat… I started to panic… I feel as if I’m about to have a panic attack… but it never quite gets there… the shock starts repeating regularly… by the time I got to my appointment… I was a reck… I walked in the room and broke down… couldn’t talk at all… after a few minutes I decided that I really couldn’t go through with it and I rush out. Finally got home… somewhere safe… but the shocks were still going … I wanted to phone someone… to calm me down and reassure me…  but I really don’t want to impose… 5 hours later I make the call… they are out…I leave a message hoping they might phone me back… by 3am the shock are still going…. and I finally fall asleep of exhuastion… I’ve never had anything like this before… has anyone else? Any ideas what it is or how to cope with it? I really don’t want to go through this again. Mark

Response:

Hi! This is my first post so please be gentle! I’ve been on Seroxat(Paxil) (30mg/day) for about 10 weeks for panic attacks / depression… it seems to help (most of the time)… however there are still occasions where I lose control in a big way…. Over the last week, I’ve been experiencing a couple of times, what I can only describe as "electric shocks"… similar to a just before a panic attack but rather than lasting a second or two it lasts for hours… with "shocks" every 10-15 seconds. Last night was agony… I had an appointment … I couldn’t remember whether it was 6:15pm or 6:30pm… so walking there I stopped outside a newagents (to get a paper to read if I had to wait)… it was closed. I stopped… turned round waked away… stopped…  walked back… stopped… I felt an electric bolt on the inside of my left arm…. my heart starts to beat… I started to panic… I feel as if I’m about to have a panic attack… but it never quite gets there… the shock starts repeating regularly… by the time I got to my appointment… I was a reck… I walked in the room and broke down… couldn’t talk at all… after a few minutes I decided that I really couldn’t go through with it and I rush out. Finally got home… somewhere safe… but the shocks were still going … I wanted to phone someone… to calm me down and reassure me…  but I really don’t want to impose… 5 hours later I make the call… they are out…I leave a message hoping they might phone me back… by 3am the shock are still going…. and I finally fall asleep of exhuastion… I’ve never had anything like this before… has anyone else? Any ideas what it is or how to cope with it? I really don’t want to go through this again. Mark

Response:

what youre describing is EXACTLY what i experienced during effexor withdrawal.  i would be worried about some sort of med reaction, and i would CALL MY SHRINK IMMEDIATELY, and tell him word for word what you posted here about symptoms, maybe even read it to him over the phone – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Over the last week, I’ve been experiencing a couple of times, what I can only describe as "electric shocks"… similar to a just before a panic attack but rather than lasting a second or two it lasts for hours… with "shocks" every 10-15 seconds. Last night was agony… I had an appointment … I couldn’t remember whether it was 6:15pm or 6:30pm… so walking there I stopped outside a newagents (to get a paper to read if I had to wait)… it was closed. I stopped… turned round waked away… stopped…  walked back… stopped… I felt an electric bolt on the inside of my left arm…. my heart starts to beat… I started to panic… I feel as if I’m about to have a panic attack… but it never quite gets there… the shock starts repeating regularly… by the time I got to my appointment… I was a reck… I walked in the room and broke down… couldn’t talk at all… after a few minutes I decided that I really couldn’t go through with it and I rush out. Finally got home… somewhere safe… but the shocks were still going … I wanted to phone someone… to calm me down and reassure me…  but I really don’t want to impose… 5 hours later I make the call… they are out…I leave a message hoping they might phone me back… by 3am the shock are still going…. and I finally fall asleep of exhuastion… I’ve never had anything like this before… has anyone else? Any ideas what it is or how to cope with it? I really don’t want to go through this again. Mark

Response:

I have had this also, still do. I never did figure out whether is was a symptom of my anxiety or the cause of it. Althought I had the anxiety first. It kept me from sleeping a lot of nights and I still have it at times. I had EEGs and MRI’s and they found nothing. All I can say is that it’s just another sucky thing that your anxiety can do to you and keep you from sleeping and making you miserable. Believe me, I feel for you. LonelyGirl – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi! This is my first post so please be gentle! I’ve been on Seroxat(Paxil) (30mg/day) for about 10 weeks for panic attacks / depression… it seems to help (most of the time)… however there are still occasions where I lose control in a big way…. Over the last week, I’ve been experiencing a couple of times, what I can only describe as "electric shocks"… similar to a just before a panic attack but rather than lasting a second or two it lasts for hours… with "shocks" every 10-15 seconds. Last night was agony… I had an appointment … I couldn’t remember whether it was 6:15pm or 6:30pm… so walking there I stopped outside a newagents (to get a paper to read if I had to wait)… it was closed. I stopped… turned round waked away… stopped…  walked back… stopped… I felt an electric bolt on the inside of my left arm…. my heart starts to beat… I started to panic… I feel as if I’m about to have a panic attack… but it never quite gets there… the shock starts repeating regularly… by the time I got to my appointment… I was a reck… I walked in the room and broke down… couldn’t talk at all… after a few minutes I decided that I really couldn’t go through with it and I rush out. Finally got home… somewhere safe… but the shocks were still going … I wanted to phone someone… to calm me down and reassure me…  but I really don’t want to impose… 5 hours later I make the call… they are out…I leave a message hoping they might phone me back… by 3am the shock are still going…. and I finally fall asleep of exhuastion… I’ve never had anything like this before… has anyone else? Any ideas what it is or how to cope with it? I really don’t want to go through this again. Mark

Response:

I’ve been on Seroxat(Paxil) (30mg/day) for about 10 weeks for panic attacks / depression… it seems to help (most of the time)… however there are still occasions where I lose control in a big way…. Over the last week, I’ve been experiencing a couple of times, what I can only describe as "electric shocks"… similar to a just before a panic attack but rather than lasting a second or two it lasts for hours… with "shocks" every 10-15 seconds.

Funny this sounds exactly like Paxil withdrawal symptoms which I experienced firsthand. Are you skipping doses? Are you taking it all in one dose (if so perhaps you should try to split it into 2)? Anyway you should definitely talk to your doctor about it. In the past doctors weren’t aware of the problems of Paxil, but hopefully all are informed now. Good luck.

Response:

Thanks for the advice… I’ve made an appointment with my doctor… have to see what he says. The only common factor I can think of is both times I’ve had a couple of glasses of wine… although the electric shocks don’t happen every time… I’ve decided to give up the alcohol… it’s not going to be easy tho =o) Mark

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -bm…@haven.ios.com wrote:

In <01bb6ec9.66374280$5de5d3c6@#glang, "Lori Lang" <70471.1…@compuserve.com writes: I need some help from anyone who can give it.  I’m 36 years old and I’ve been an insomniac my whole life.  I have trouble getting to sleep and if I get to sleep I can’t stay asleep.  I get 2-3 hours of sleep a night.  When I was young, I started taking antihistamines at night (I had allergies) and although I didn’t feel great the next day, I slept.  Any time I didn’t take them, no sleep.  I’ve gone more than a week with no sleep at different times in my life.  I could take antihistamines until last year, when they started irritating my stomach.  I had to get some help. I follow all of the rules:  no eating after dinner, turn down the lights at night, meditate, stress reduction, blah blah blah.  I’m convinced that whoever came up with the list has never had a sleepless night, because those things don’t seem to matter.  I’ve tried melatonin, homeopathic remedies, acupuncture, herbs.  I finally went to the doctor and had a sleep study done.  It came back that my sleep is severely abnormal, I’m not getting to stage 3 or 4, and that I should take antidepressants. I’ve tried 4 different antidepressants.  I had allergic reactions to 2 of them (Prozac, Effexor), and two made me sick (Pamelor, Serzone).  The only thing that has helped is Ambien, but that’s nothing that anyone will prescribe for me on an ongoing basis.  But it’s heaven.  It’s the only thing that works. Unfortunately, I’m not someone who feels okay without sleep.  I’ve been told by three doctors now just to live with it because that’s the way I am.  I’d almost rather be dead than live like this.  It’s a nightmare (so to speak). Nobody feels okay without sleep.  Almost everyone on this newsgroup knows how devistating sleep deprivation can be.  It’s a shame you found three separate doctors who merely told you to "live with it".  Are these general practitioners? Have you seen a sleep specialist?  It seems to me that you need the help of someone who specializes in sleep problems and can understand the severity of your problems when you don’t sleep.  I don’t know too much about Ambien but I have seen postings here from people who have taken it regularly – one person for a couple years, I believe. Please, see a doctor who is both willing and capable of understanding your sleep problems.  Too many doctors know very little about sleep disorders and don’t understand their seriousness. –BillM

http://www.micronet.fr/~mondor

Response:

"Lori Lang" <70471.1…@compuserve.com

wrote: I finally went to the doctor and had a sleep study done.  It came back that my sleep is severely abnormal, I’m not getting to stage 3 or 4, and that I should take antidepressants.   I’ve tried 4 different antidepressants.  I had allergic reactions to 2 of them (Prozac, Effexor), and two made me sick (Pamelor, Serzone).  The only thing that has helped is Ambien, but that’s nothing that anyone will prescribe for me on an ongoing basis.  But it’s heaven.  It’s the only thing that works.

First, let me say I sympathize with you.  Don’t give up hope!  Myself I have had a very bizarre sleep schedule my whole life, but I feel better since I recently figured out I have Delayed Sleep Phase Syndrome (with a non-regular pattern and bouts of sleep-deprivation…but anyway…) I might not have any advice for you, but I have a question because I am very curious about sleep disorders.  This question is for anyone who happens to know:     Why/when are anti-depressants prescribed for sleeplessness?  Are they only used in cases like hers where the sleep is very abnormal? When I complained to my physician of frequent insomnia, I was first told to take benadryl, and another time prescribed Xanax (only 10 of them.)  So, those would be more in the sedative category I guess (with benadryl actually an antihistamine and drowsiness being a side-effect?) I always hated the way those made me feel the next day–I don’t WANT to sleep for 9-10 hours and wake up feeling as though I have a brick on my forehead!  I love to be awake and doing stuff.  I tried melatonin too–it made me groggy but did not make me want to sleep, and when I finally went to sleep it was for 9-10 hours and I’d wake up a little groggy.   So, now I know that my natural sleep schedule is somewhere around sleeping from 9AM to 5PM, and I’d be comfortable doing that.  BUT in the mean time, I have in the past lost jobs for being late, been late for class, and I can’t guarantee I’ll ever make it to the bank, the post office, a dentist appointment, etc.  I’m almost impossible to wake up before that time–I sleep through all kinds of alarm clocks.   Now I have to get a job (I’m beyond broke from my summertime binge of sleeping when I want–but I ended up feeling like I was home with a disability), which means I have to get up at a decent hour to apply for a job, even to apply to work the night shift.  I have just recently tried taking 5mg of Valium, and am amazed that it has worked great for me!  I thought I would end up feeling groggy, but I have felt sleepy in a natural way in about 15 minutes after taking it, and wake up in the morning (ok well, it’s still the afternoon, but at least it’s early afternoon) feeling ALERT, moreso than I normally do. My alarm clock wakes me up!  (Still takes a few to get me out of bed, but at least I hear the alarms now.)  And I can do that after sleeping only 6-7 hours. So, can anyone tell me about problems taking Valium in order to sleep? Is my reaction similar to other people’s, and could I possibly use it to reset my circadian clock?  I have only tried it three times so far. I’d much rather sleep naturally, but it looks like that’s not going to happen. Thanks for listening, ~Moo * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Speak out against hatred and discrimination! Write your Senators TODAY and tell them to vote NO to the ridiculous "Defense of marriage act." * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * http://www.mindspring.com/~moomoo/index.html

Response:

In <01bb6ec9.66374280$5de5d3c6@#glang

, "Lori Lang" <70471.1…@compuserve.com writes:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

I need some help from anyone who can give it.  I’m 36 years old and I’ve been an insomniac my whole life.  I have trouble getting to sleep and if I get to sleep I can’t stay asleep.  I get 2-3 hours of sleep a night.  When I was young, I started taking antihistamines at night (I had allergies) and although I didn’t feel great the next day, I slept.  Any time I didn’t take them, no sleep.  I’ve gone more than a week with no sleep at different times in my life.  I could take antihistamines until last year, when they started irritating my stomach.  I had to get some help. I follow all of the rules:  no eating after dinner, turn down the lights at night, meditate, stress reduction, blah blah blah.  I’m convinced that whoever came up with the list has never had a sleepless night, because those things don’t seem to matter.  I’ve tried melatonin, homeopathic remedies, acupuncture, herbs.  I finally went to the doctor and had a sleep study done.  It came back that my sleep is severely abnormal, I’m not getting to stage 3 or 4, and that I should take antidepressants.   I’ve tried 4 different antidepressants.  I had allergic reactions to 2 of them (Prozac, Effexor), and two made me sick (Pamelor, Serzone).  The only thing that has helped is Ambien, but that’s nothing that anyone will prescribe for me on an ongoing basis.  But it’s heaven.  It’s the only thing that works. Unfortunately, I’m not someone who feels okay without sleep.  I’ve been told by three doctors now just to live with it because that’s the way I am.  I’d almost rather be dead than live like this.  It’s a nightmare (so to speak).

Nobody feels okay without sleep.  Almost everyone on this newsgroup knows how devistating sleep deprivation can be.  It’s a shame you found three separate doctors who merely told you to "live with it".  Are these general practitioners? Have you seen a sleep specialist?  It seems to me that you need the help of someone who specializes in sleep problems and can understand the severity of your problems when you don’t sleep.  I don’t know too much about Ambien but I have seen postings here from people who have taken it regularly – one person for a couple years, I believe. Please, see a doctor who is both willing and capable of understanding your sleep problems.  Too many doctors know very little about sleep disorders and don’t understand their seriousness. –BillM

Response:

I need some help from anyone who can give it.  I’m 36 years old and I’ve been an insomniac my whole life.  I have trouble getting to sleep and if I get to sleep I can’t stay asleep.  I get 2-3 hours of sleep a night.  When I was young, I started taking antihistamines at night (I had allergies) and although I didn’t feel great the next day, I slept.  Any time I didn’t take them, no sleep.  I’ve gone more than a week with no sleep at different times in my life.  I could take antihistamines until last year, when they started irritating my stomach.  I had to get some help. I follow all of the rules:  no eating after dinner, turn down the lights at night, meditate, stress reduction, blah blah blah.  I’m convinced that whoever came up with the list has never had a sleepless night, because those things don’t seem to matter.  I’ve tried melatonin, homeopathic remedies, acupuncture, herbs.  I finally went to the doctor and had a sleep study done.  It came back that my sleep is severely abnormal, I’m not getting to stage 3 or 4, and that I should take antidepressants.   I’ve tried 4 different antidepressants.  I had allergic reactions to 2 of them (Prozac, Effexor), and two made me sick (Pamelor, Serzone).  The only thing that has helped is Ambien, but that’s nothing that anyone will prescribe for me on an ongoing basis.  But it’s heaven.  It’s the only thing that works. Unfortunately, I’m not someone who feels okay without sleep.  I’ve been told by three doctors now just to live with it because that’s the way I am.  I’d almost rather be dead than live like this.  It’s a nightmare (so to speak). Does anyone have anything to offer that I haven’t tried? Thank you.  Sorry if I sound whiney, I’m just sort of desperate. Lori

Response: