Question:

Thanks for the man-hating comments. I’m sure others appreciate it too.

Response:

You did a great job speaking for all of us. Thanks hon.

yer welcome,  and i’m usually so quiet’n demure… it WAS’ah stretch. xoxoxoxox ~t

Response:

It takes alot to offend US here. Sounds like this is not the group for you friend. And benzos don’t make you high.

My first and last cigarette made me feel high. All benzo’s ever did was ease my anxiety… I WANT my money back ! ! ! They help with anxiety and PANIC attacks.

Not sure if ARPASH (alt.recovery.panic-anxiety.self-help) is still around but as stated in their FAQ "We do not discuss or compare medications". So this may be the group for a_Friend.

Response:

That may prove to be the case, mama. However, I do have some concern about the amount of prescribing and medical information by non-practitioners. I believe it is against the law in most states and provinces to operate as a physican. And I certainly think it is an ethical issue for professionals to be advising others on the appropriate use of medications in an on-line forum. However, "benzos don’t make you high". ROFL. They are one of the most abused substances that phsycians prescribe for that reason. Nice try, no cigar. De Nile is more than just a river in Egypt, Ms. New Oleans.

Response:

Thanks vanessa, Despite any information in the charter for this group, prescribing and advising online may be a legal issue of acting as a doctor. For those who are practitioners, there is an ethical issue of providing medical advice to any patient without appropriate examination and history. Laws vary from one jurisdiction to the next as I recall. I hope the behaviour is addressed.

Response:

Thanks vanessa, Despite any information in the charter for this group, prescribing and advising online may be a legal issue of acting as a doctor. For those who are practitioners, there is an ethical issue of providing medical advice to any patient without appropriate examination and history. Laws vary from one jurisdiction to the next as I recall.

People here merely offer their opinions and share their experiences re medication. In what country/ies are you referring to about the legality of medical advice?

Response:

Thanks vanessa, Despite any information in the charter for this group, prescribing and advising online may be a legal issue of acting as a doctor.

#1, EINSTEIN:  nobody’s prescibing medication and there’s no legalities connected with these rooms… tha best yer gonna do’s tha "exit" door and it’s in that lil box in tha upper left hand corner of this square yer lookin ‘ in.. PUSH IT, QUICK ! For those who are practitioners, there is an ethical issue of providing medical advice to any patient without appropriate examination and history.

#2, MR. MENZA:  WHO does that?  post an example.. and NOT out’ah context.. but just ta make ya right’n give ya grounds ta participate in’ah litigious arena: EVERYONE ::POPPAHCOUPLAHBLUEZ:: IMMEDIATELY, I PRESCRIBE XANAX BLUES OR BARS FOR ALL OF AMERICA !  I AM NOW THA PRESIDENT OF THA WORLD’N THERE’LL BE’AH XANAX IN EVERY POT ! (this is especially attractive for tha stoners of america.) Laws vary from one jurisdiction to the next as I recall.

why you gotta keep on with tha rhetoric… "as i recall" is assumed, we can figger that out.  you just like typin? I hope the behaviour is addressed.

3913 SE 26 Del City, OK  73115 there.. yer dreams came true.. it CAN happen ta you.. (you been wishin’ upon stars?  cuz yer hazin’ muh groove, dude.. GET OFF’AH MUH CLOUD !) hey hey hee hee ! ~tanya

Response:

Oh, Tanya: "#1, EINSTEIN:  nobody’s prescibing medication and there’s no legalities connected with these rooms… tha best yer gonna do’s tha "exit" door and it’s in that lil box in tha upper left hand corner of this square yer lookin ‘ in.. PUSH IT, QUICK !" Of course, there are legal issues. Medical practitioners are governed by the ethics and requirements of their licensing colleges as well as the local laws. I would type more slowly, but I don’t think it would help your comprehension. *winks*

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We disagree, Marie. Each post that I have opened entails some dilemma over the ingestion of some chemical. Frankly, I had enough of the chemicals that will ultimately harm my liver, or my kidneys, or some other necessary system for life. The treatments are worse than the ailments in my view. i see they skipped all them vital organs and went due north’n right SKRAIT for yer last vestige of’ah brain cell.  that was mighty generous, in retrospect, doncha think? Now, what I did find interesting was your reply. Interestingly, in merely posing an alternative perspective, you had assumed that I was speaking aobut herbs, or oils, or some other external cure. We are the only species that I know of that has direct and immediate control over our experiential existence. "immediate control"?  ROFLMAOOOOOO !!!! "immediate control".. now THERE’s a concept.  even if control WAS a possibility, i don’t think you’d have it considerin’ tha option/possibility of sumbody dosin’ ya right quick’n makin’ their own experiment… (it’s called "choice", a_fried) and we excersise tha right to that choice… WELCOME TO AMERICA !!! please take yer seat in tha "i try ta look so enFUCKINlightened but just can’t seem to succeed" corner.  happy ta have ya here, yer truly a treasured addition to our country, as ya make us all look like Einstein, by comparison… whad’ah magnanimous gesture ! As to any "failed" attempts, I am curious thoough on what you were expecting ‘them’ to deliver? this ain’t even my question and i can answer that, it’s rocket science, ::lookin’ at tha room topic in case i missed sumthin:: …and another contribution (as aforementioned) to tha world… yer tha poster child for "true humanitarian" !!!!!!! ~ya guessed it !   ~tanya

I gotta admit, I had to look up at the room topic, too…..making sure that I wasn’t missing something here. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

TROLL

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We disagree, Marie.

Response:

You did a great job speaking for all of us. Thanks hon.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As a group, it seems everyone here is pretty dedicated to prescription medication as a source of relief for suffering. Sorry for any offence, but I found the name of this group mislead. alt.support.medsanddocs is more the case. Nothing like a good benzo for a good high…if memory serves. amen.  perhaps you ARE in the wrong forum, as we are all REAL anxiety/panic sufferers. yes… medication is a viable and available alternative to the impact of…… a sudden meteoric rise in heartbeat, off the charts, stroke level blood pressure, KNOWING your heart is beating so hard that you are dying at any moment, the humiliation and embarrassment that goes along with "knowing somehow in your head" that this isn’t real, the inability to treat it as "not real", as it’s not possible… ~~THAT knowledge in itself is overwhelming~~ being unable to indulge the coherent awareness/reality of that which we have no control or power over, trying every possible verbosity to explain to others (those of us that are ‘out of the closet’ with our disorder, as THAT is a feat in itself,) the phenomenon manifested and internalized as extremely visible to the world, knowing we cannot IGNORE what is happening in lieu of our intellectual mind set as the current "reality" supercedes this, especially in a public arena, enduring embarrassment of major proportions, having fear as our closest cohort in life, fear of attacks, fear of …including fear that the possibility of having our next prescription denied exists, our "fear" is always by our side, dependable, ever present, persistent if nothing else. to KNOW the world is staring directly at us with judgment as we die die considering the moment of exiting a door from home, for some, a major accomplishment, after 30 years, having missed out on their kid’s first home run, all home runs, the crowning of their daughter as homecoming queen, graduations, family functions, holidays spent alone, enslaving the whole family to the dictation of needs via this disorder, subjecting your children and husband to a life of ‘excuses for mom’s absence’, and the list goes on, to be aware that our goal of "management" is the only thing that separates us from the world in which we dwell and the one possible, to know we are by far not the only victims of this suffering, our friends and family are just as victimized, the burden of guilt …. guilt as we are inflicting our own discomfort on those that love us, a horrific cross to bear, understanding that understanding is not something they do well, and not a thing we can gift them… we don’t understand it ourselves. we are FAR from stupid  the creativity we employ to "not be noticed" or even "found out" dictates a creativity, an intelligence level not to be ignored, even an awareness level that is not to be reckoned with. go to the "diabetes support" forum and suggest the participants get the HELL off their meds, pills or insulin. go to the "new mothers in crisis support" forum and suggest they take their 3 month premature baby out of the incubator and out of the hands of … as you so eloquently phrased it "medsanddocs" and of course, remove the oxygen, (nothin’ like’ah good dose of oxygen for a good high). YES, medication is a source of relief and suffering.   YOU BET YOUR ASS IT IS!!!!  and when the shit hits the proverbial fan, and YOUR son is suffering from a pain beknownst, the magnitude, the intensity, to him and only him… let’s see where the shit lands then. let’s see what tune you’re singing when a simple pill administered provides him relief… or would you be so bold as to jerk that opportunity out of the reach of his little hands as tears of angst and pain are opted for by YOU as you parcipitate his horror, his nightmare… what a ghastly thought, even punctuated by the possibility that it is probable in your case, as you have shown your selfish agenda in all to vivid color. one thing you have apparently, in all your wisdom and judgment NOW noticed… is that not ONE of us on medication speaks of a "high"… as not one of us is fortunate enough to experience such a "pleasurable" byproduct of our medication.  THAT would be a minor payoff, muh boy… and i DO mean minor. YOUR memory, i’m sure, serves you well.  that smacks of a past of benzo abuse that created a "high" for you…. WELLLLLLLLLLLLL,  let me tell you something.  it does NOT create a high for us, and i can speak for everyone in this group.  WHY?  we’re WAY too busy depending on that little blue pill for our next breath, to subside our DESPERATE FEAR that is inexplicable, to just give us one more chance to live, while praying to our own personal God to please… please.. just give us one more chance, to PLEASE make this go away and even making promises to this God that we will NEVER have another attack if the gift of one more chance is offered, a promise absurd, and borne of despair. as you have come here to prove, (ineffectively, i might add), that you are in an enlightened arena of panic/anxiety sufferers that have overcome by the grace of what you perceive as a ’superior thought process’… you have proven not only the contradiction of this "superior thinking" as the dichotomy lies within your own words, consistently, but that you are a narcissist of major proportions with the discernment abilities of a fruit fly. you wouldn’t know support from pantyhose.  (or maybe i speak from an unenlightened position on that one, who knows)… and support is not always in the form of advice, medication technicalities, but also laughter, humor, chiding, acceptance… acceptance that we may find one another intolerable on a day to day basis and it COULD be due to anxiety, personal issues, (which we put on the table freely, son) or issues that have nothing to do with our behavior towards another here. we convene not so much for solutions, but for cohesion. cohering, and a comfort zone.. one which dictates that we do not have to be onstage for a few minutes of our lives proving we’re "ok" to the nonaccepting masses. yeah, i’m speaking for everyone, which is NOT my right, i will claim all of the above as my OWN …  and feel certain that i have touched upon things others feel. ..and i’ll be seein’ YOU in the "men suffering from lorena bobbit syndrome support" forum, sans a prosthesis, of course, that might make your life a little too easy.. and i’ll be happy to lend you my own balls, as you have none… looks like your ENTIRE 3 PIECE SUITE FELL VICTIM !!!!!! …. and in closing?  live it up…. life in your solo arena will serve you well, i’m sure. ~tanya p.s. your attempt at intellect is futile. intellect is not mutually exclusive of sensibility, rationale, and consistency.. just the opposite, in fact.  do yourself a favor and do NOT try that again, it does NOT become you.

Response:

It takes alot to offend US here. Sounds like this is not the group for you friend. And benzos don’t make you high. They help with anxiety and PANIC attacks.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As a group, it seems everyone here is pretty dedicated to prescription medication as a source of relief for suffering. Sorry for any offence, but I found the name of this group mislead. alt.support.medsanddocs is more the case. Nothing like a good benzo for a good high…if memory serves.

Response:

We disagree, Marie. Each post that I have opened entails some dilemma over the ingestion of some chemical. Frankly, I had enough of the chemicals that will ultimately harm my liver, or my kidneys, or some other necessary system for life. The treatments are worse than the ailments in my view.

i see they skipped all them vital organs and went due north’n right SKRAIT for yer last vestige of’ah brain cell.  that was mighty generous, in retrospect, doncha think? Now, what I did find interesting was your reply. Interestingly, in merely posing an alternative perspective, you had assumed that I was speaking aobut herbs, or oils, or some other external cure. We are the only species that I know of that has direct and immediate control over our experiential existence.

"immediate control"?  ROFLMAOOOOOO !!!! "immediate control".. now THERE’s a concept.  even if control WAS a possibility, i don’t think you’d have it considerin’ tha option/possibility of sumbody dosin’ ya right quick’n makin’ their own experiment… (it’s called "choice", a_fried) and we excersise tha right to that choice… WELCOME TO AMERICA !!! please take yer seat in tha "i try ta look so enFUCKINlightened but just can’t seem to succeed" corner.  happy ta have ya here, yer truly a treasured addition to our country, as ya make us all look like Einstein, by comparison… whad’ah magnanimous gesture ! As to any "failed" attempts, I am curious thoough on what you were expecting ‘them’ to deliver?

this ain’t even my question and i can answer that, it’s rocket science, ::lookin’ at tha room topic in case i missed sumthin:: …and another contribution (as aforementioned) to tha world… yer tha poster child for "true humanitarian" !!!!!!! ~ya guessed it !   ~tanya

Response:

If Im on 100mg Zoloft do I have to take the entire pill at once? It seems as if I have a sharp increase in anxiety issues about 12-14 hours after taking the drug. Does anyone out there split their dose up twice a day, does it work? Also I dont understand if zoloft takes 6 weeks to work and stays in your system for so long how can I feel immediate results (hours)? Is it all in my head?

Response:

If Im on 100mg Zoloft do I have to take the entire pill at once? It seems as if I have a sharp increase in anxiety issues about 12-14 hours after taking the drug. Does anyone out there split their dose up twice a day, does it work? Also I dont understand if zoloft takes 6 weeks to work and stays in your system for so long how can I feel immediate results (hours)? Is it all in my head?

Ask your Doctor!!!!!!

Response:

I’m on 100mg of Zoloft and take it at night. Sometimes I’ll break it in half since I know the lower the dosage the better. I find that the 100mg gives me more anxiety so that’s usually when I’ll go a few days of 50mg….

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If Im on 100mg Zoloft do I have to take the entire pill at once? It seems as if I have a sharp increase in anxiety issues about 12-14 hours after taking the drug. Does anyone out there split their dose up twice a day, does it work? Also I dont understand if zoloft takes 6 weeks to work and stays in your system for so long how can I feel immediate results (hours)? Is it all in my head? I was on Zoloft for a number of years up until the beginning of 2003.  I used to take 100mg a day most of the time.  However, sometimes during the winter I would start to feel a little worse, so I would take  1 1/2, I would just break the Zoloft.  Other times, especially late spring/summer I would be feeling pretty well so I would only take 1/2 a day. Ask your doctor if he/she thinks it would be OK to take a lower amount of Zoloft.  How long have you been taking it?  Some SSRI’s can make you feel a little worse for a week or two until as your body adjusts.  An there is the possibility that Zoloft may not be right for you.  For example, I just started taking Paxil CR today.  I won’t be taking it again tomorrow.  I just didn’t feel right.  I had tried Paxil a few years ago and only used it for two day and after today, I now remember why I stopped : ) Don’t hesitate to talk to your doc about it, that is what they are there for. Best, JimD

Response:

As a group, it seems everyone here is pretty dedicated to prescription medication as a source of relief for suffering. Sorry for any offence, but I found the name of this group mislead. alt.support.medsanddocs is more the case. Nothing like a good benzo for a good high…if memory serves.

Response:

As a group, it seems everyone here is pretty dedicated to prescription medication as a source of relief for suffering.

Actually I find folks in this group the most med-resistant and med-phobic of them all. Prescription meds are stronger and work much more effectively than lavendar oils and tea leaves. The natural route is for your garden variety anxiety. I tried the natural route (needles, herbs, and therapy) for three months and wasted time and money and got my condition worsened. The naturopaths promise healing and "no side effects," but they failed to deliver and, ironically, referred me to the PDocs. The PDocs don’t make promises about anything being free of side effects. Currently they are delivering far more for these folks and for me.

Response:

As a group, it seems everyone here is pretty dedicated to prescription medication as a source of relief for suffering. Sorry for any offence, but I found the name of this group mislead. alt.support.medsanddocs is more the case. Nothing like a good benzo for a good high…if memory serves.

Response:

As a group, it seems everyone here is pretty dedicated to prescription medication as a source of relief for suffering. Sorry for any offence, but I found the name of this group mislead. alt.support.medsanddocs is more the case. Nothing like a good benzo for a good high…if memory serves.

For many medication is and may remain necessary. Anxiety disorders are most often biological/genetic as well as psychological (*learned behaviour*). CBT is the first choice therapy and taking meds without CBT is not the best treatment. Philip

Response:

We disagree, Marie. Each post that I have opened entails some dilemma over the ingestion of some chemical. Frankly, I had enough of the chemicals that will ultimately harm my liver, or my kidneys, or some other necessary system for life. The treatments are worse than the ailments in my view. Now, what I did find interesting was your reply. Interestingly, in merely posing an alternative perspective, you had assumed that I was speaking aobut herbs, or oils, or some other external cure. We are the only species that I know of that has direct and immediate control over our experiential existence. As to any "failed" attempts, I am curious thoough on what you were expecting ‘them’ to deliver?

Response:

As a group, it seems everyone here is pretty dedicated to prescription medication as a source of relief for suffering. Sorry for any offence, but I found the name of this group mislead. alt.support.medsanddocs is more the case. Nothing like a good benzo for a good high…if memory serves.

amen.  perhaps you ARE in the wrong forum, as we are all REAL anxiety/panic sufferers. yes… medication is a viable and available alternative to the impact of…… a sudden meteoric rise in heartbeat, off the charts, stroke level blood pressure, KNOWING your heart is beating so hard that you are dying at any moment, the humiliation and embarrassment that goes along with "knowing somehow in your head" that this isn’t real, the inability to treat it as "not real", as it’s not possible… ~~THAT knowledge in itself is overwhelming~~ being unable to indulge the coherent awareness/reality of that which we have no control or power over, trying every possible verbosity to explain to others (those of us that are ‘out of the closet’ with our disorder, as THAT is a feat in itself,) the phenomenon manifested and internalized as extremely visible to the world, knowing we cannot IGNORE what is happening in lieu of our intellectual mind set as the current "reality" supercedes this, especially in a public arena, enduring embarrassment of major proportions, having fear as our closest cohort in life, fear of attacks, fear of …including fear that the possibility of having our next prescription denied exists, our "fear" is always by our side, dependable, ever present, persistent if nothing else. to KNOW the world is staring directly at us with judgment as we die die considering the moment of exiting a door from home, for some, a major accomplishment, after 30 years, having missed out on their kid’s first home run, all home runs, the crowning of their daughter as homecoming queen, graduations, family functions, holidays spent alone, enslaving the whole family to the dictation of needs via this disorder, subjecting your children and husband to a life of ‘excuses for mom’s absence’, and the list goes on, to be aware that our goal of "management" is the only thing that separates us from the world in which we dwell and the one possible, to know we are by far not the only victims of this suffering, our friends and family are just as victimized, the burden of guilt …. guilt as we are inflicting our own discomfort on those that love us, a horrific cross to bear, understanding that understanding is not something they do well, and not a thing we can gift them… we don’t understand it ourselves. we are FAR from stupid  the creativity we employ to "not be noticed" or even "found out" dictates a creativity, an intelligence level not to be ignored, even an awareness level that is not to be reckoned with. go to the "diabetes support" forum and suggest the participants get the HELL off their meds, pills or insulin. go to the "new mothers in crisis support" forum and suggest they take their 3 month premature baby out of the incubator and out of the hands of … as you so eloquently phrased it "medsanddocs" and of course, remove the oxygen, (nothin’ like’ah good dose of oxygen for a good high). YES, medication is a source of relief and suffering.   YOU BET YOUR ASS IT IS!!!!  and when the shit hits the proverbial fan, and YOUR son is suffering from a pain beknownst, the magnitude, the intensity, to him and only him… let’s see where the shit lands then. let’s see what tune you’re singing when a simple pill administered provides him relief… or would you be so bold as to jerk that opportunity out of the reach of his little hands as tears of angst and pain are opted for by YOU as you parcipitate his horror, his nightmare… what a ghastly thought, even punctuated by the possibility that it is probable in your case, as you have shown your selfish agenda in all to vivid color. one thing you have apparently, in all your wisdom and judgment NOW noticed… is that not ONE of us on medication speaks of a "high"… as not one of us is fortunate enough to experience such a "pleasurable" byproduct of our medication.  THAT would be a minor payoff, muh boy… and i DO mean minor. YOUR memory, i’m sure, serves you well.  that smacks of a past of benzo abuse that created a "high" for you…. WELLLLLLLLLLLLL,  let me tell you something.  it does NOT create a high for us, and i can speak for everyone in this group.  WHY?  we’re WAY too busy depending on that little blue pill for our next breath, to subside our DESPERATE FEAR that is inexplicable, to just give us one more chance to live, while praying to our own personal God to please… please.. just give us one more chance, to PLEASE make this go away and even making promises to this God that we will NEVER have another attack if the gift of one more chance is offered, a promise absurd, and borne of despair. as you have come here to prove, (ineffectively, i might add), that you are in an enlightened arena of panic/anxiety sufferers that have overcome by the grace of what you perceive as a ’superior thought process’… you have proven not only the contradiction of this "superior thinking" as the dichotomy lies within your own words, consistently, but that you are a narcissist of major proportions with the discernment abilities of a fruit fly. you wouldn’t know support from pantyhose.  (or maybe i speak from an unenlightened position on that one, who knows)… and support is not always in the form of advice, medication technicalities, but also laughter, humor, chiding, acceptance… acceptance that we may find one another intolerable on a day to day basis and it COULD be due to anxiety, personal issues, (which we put on the table freely, son) or issues that have nothing to do with our behavior towards another here. we convene not so much for solutions, but for cohesion. cohering, and a comfort zone.. one which dictates that we do not have to be onstage for a few minutes of our lives proving we’re "ok" to the nonaccepting masses. yeah, i’m speaking for everyone, which is NOT my right, i will claim all of the above as my OWN …  and feel certain that i have touched upon things others feel. ..and i’ll be seein’ YOU in the "men suffering from lorena bobbit syndrome support" forum, sans a prosthesis, of course, that might make your life a little too easy.. and i’ll be happy to lend you my own balls, as you have none… looks like your ENTIRE 3 PIECE SUITE FELL VICTIM !!!!!! …. and in closing?  live it up…. life in your solo arena will serve you well, i’m sure. ~tanya p.s. your attempt at intellect is futile. intellect is not mutually exclusive of sensibility, rationale, and consistency.. just the opposite, in fact.  do yourself a favor and do NOT try that again, it does NOT become you.

Response:

Question:

Hi everyone, i’ve suffered headaches off and on my whole life, but over the past 8 days, I have had a severe morning headache every single morning.  It is more in the back of my head, my neck muscles are very sore and my jaw and bottom molars are sore as well. I take two excedrin migraine and the headache is completely gone within an hour, if I don’t take the excedrin, then well the headache stays with me for most of the day until after lunch.  Also my eyes are very light sensitive with these headaches. I had been on zoloft 50mg for about 8 months and two months ago I stopped taking it, I slowly weaned myself off of it.  I’m thinking these headaches could be from the zoloft withdrawal?  I also feel that I may be grinding my teeth at night but i’m not sure.  Any thoughts? Thanks in advance.

Response:

I had been on zoloft 50mg for about 8 months and two months ago I stopped taking it, I slowly weaned myself off of it. I’m thinking these headaches could be from the zoloft withdrawal? I also feel that I may be grinding my teeth at night but i’m not sure. Any thoughts?

IMHO, it may well be the grinding of your teeth, as well as not taking zoloft anymore.  Doctors say that anti-depressants are not addictive as benzo’s, but they are so wrong.  I  weaned myself off prozac very slowly, and I felt ok for  a few months.  Then all of a sudden, I developed dizzy spells, felt very sad and awful.  So…I took the prozac again, and bingo, the dizziness went away, my crying fits stopped, and felt better (but still have that same underlying feelings of sadness and feelings of despair , guilt, etc.  Try taking the zoloft again in small doses, and see if the headaches stop.  Then you know it was the brain yelling out for the zoloft.  The brain does not forget these little pills we take, and lets us know that it wants it again.  Of course, I could be entirely wrong about this.  Maybe your headaches are caused by tension.  Maybe this, or maybe that.  Good luck and be well.   Art Decco… nyc, usa

Response:

Question:

As mentioned before, Creation and evolution go hand in hand. Do you mean the word creation …. well maybe. If you mean biblical creation – nonsense! Biblical Creation and evolution can go hand in hand by a scientific stand point to tie up the "theory of evolutions" loose ends that scientists cannot explain.  All one has to do is to use all knowledge of mankind at his disposal, without throwing out a vast amount of it, dismissing it as fairy tales and fallasies.

Creationism and ToE can go hand in hand, but wont be accepted by any one with a scientific mind. You don’t supply answers for the holes. YOU SEARCH FOR THE TRUTH not what makes you feel complete. Scientists are comfortable with the holes, more to work on. Scientists aren’t comfortable with half- assed answeres to questions with realy truth behind them. One cannot be truthfully explained without the other. Science has done quite well explaing things without needing (or finiding evidence for) a god! Science is as baffled at this Creation and evolution thing today as it was a hundred years ago.  Many scientists, who are Christian, are turning to the Bible for answers to loose ends in the "theory of evolution".

Because those "scientists" are cowards — can’t accept reality (that we are still ignorant). Not having answers to all of the questions does not make creationism true. It means more must be discovered, not fabricated. If it were so, then one or the other would have overtaken the world with little or know question whatsoever. Bull shit! Science has answers — plenty of them. Science has many loose ends that cannot be explained without God or the Biblical history.

Can not be explained by ignorant fearfull theists who *need* god inorder to live a good life. Science does not have ALL the answers, and never will.

Does that make god or you religion true? NO!!!!!!! Because it dismisses too many facts leaving a lot of unanswered questions and loose ends that cannot be explained any other way except with God.

How did earth form? — god. How did Columbus find the americas? — god. How does my computer work? — god. How did I find my keys this morning? — god. Just because I may not know how my computer works, the earth formed, or how I found my keys doesn’t mean that god did it. It means that I am not knowledgable or rational enough to conclude an intelligent answer. And the same goes for humanity in general. We can’t explain everythign (as you pointed out many times) and the reason is because we are still too ignorant and have not found the answers, not that god is responsible. Science is STILL based in reality, facts and evidence; creationism is still based in fables and fairy tales. With a mentality like this, it is a wonder you made it out of Kindergarten.

Rather than ridculing, point out where his logic is wrong. And, by the way, his logic is not wrong. Creationsim has no evidence, it has NEVER been witnessed anywhere, ever. It has less credibility than evolution. (here is the point where you respond with one of your pointless pseudo- insults rather than addressing the issue)

Response:

Why, my friend, are you waiting for your next athesistic laugh?  You appear to live and devote your entire life to making jokes, so I would guess that you are.

Don’t try to make judgments about someone’s "entire life" based on a few USENET posts.  It makes you look ridiculous. Jon

Response:

You obviously don’t understand human nature very well. I understand human nature better than YOU will ever know.

How do you know? I might have a degree in sociology or philosophy. Maybe I have been to dozens of countrys or studied anthropolgy under eminent professors and philosophers. You don’t know so don’t assume that I can’t know as much, or more, about human nature than you do. (*christian arrogance* : I know best) Evolution is a fact of reality for life, planetary formation, and the development of the universe. The "theory of evolution", which it still is, is still chopped up with many holes like swiss cheese, and remains to have too many unanswered questions in it.

I didn’t use evolution in the context of human evolution. I used it to represent the process of change. There is a process to the formation of planets, solar systems, minerals and life. You can’t disagree that formation has a process can you? Evolution is merely change, thats all. And I already have a clue from what you have written that you are not very familiar with scientific procedures. A theory, as it is used in the SCIENTIFIC sense is a formula or construct that has successfuly stood up to all tests, but has not found the single piece of proof that makes it a law. Simliar to proving a mathematical formula. Some formulas can describe a set of numbers from x to any number you care to crunch. But since numbers go to infity you cant say that since the fromula works for the first billion numbers it must work for all. Same with evolution. Everything that we can test it with, genetics, diseases, speciation, etc.. it stands up to it. But since no one was around 100million years ago we can’t say for certain evolution worked the same way then. We can say though that from this poitn on evolution seems to work. I have studied evolution for a few years now, under intellgient professors, and all of these holes you speak of are not realy there. These holes are only visible to ignorant uneducated people. Once you have studied evolution you not just find it to be logical but rather mundane in its process. (I am not implying that you are uneducated or ignorant in these matters and I really don’t care.) If evolution was accepted by everyone then creationism will become a fairy tale. Creation will never become a fairy tale to anyone except the atheists who seek to destroy humanity at all costs.

Creationism will become a fairy tale once people stop believing in it. Just as Zeus, Ra and all of those old world gods have become. Once there is no one to believe in somethign it no longer exists. And on my weekends I, sit in a dark room clutching a glass of brandy planing world domination… give me a break man. Atheists aren’t trying to destroy humanity, every religion, every culture has individuals who cause negative repricussion on society. If you really wish to single out atheists as if EVER ONE OF THEM wanted to take away your freedoms and destroy your culture then give me a half an hour and I will be able to pull up a hundred sources saying the same about any religion. I recomend we do not go down this path of blame.. it never gets us anywhere. Our spontaneous creation by god is the fundamental cornerstone of christianity and many other religions. If we no longer were intentionally created, but instead evolved from other life forms, religions would completely loose any foundation it may have. This is why there is such resistance to evolution, not that it requires creationsim, but people are too scared to be wrong. Another reply that is wrought with loopholes and falasies using methods that still have work to be done to prove the atheist theory that the "theory of evolution" is the key to the beginnings of the human race.

Please point out my loopholes in the previous paragraph. I will break it down for you to make it simpler. 1. Creationsim is a foundation of Christianity (True / False)? 2. Evolution says creationsim is b.s. and we evolved from simpler life             forms (True / False)? 3. IF EVOLUTION IS TRUE then we are no longer spontaneously created by god.             (True / False)? 4. If our existence is nothing more than chance, then we have no more             purpose than any other creature (True / False)? 5. If we are no longer special then christianity will loose its strongest             cornerstone (True / False)? You still haven’t proven a thing.

I never had any intention to prove anything. Do you?

Response:

You obviously don’t understand human nature very well. I understand human nature better than YOU will ever know.  I have lived it as well as studied the human mind from the best perspective that one can study anything.  So believe what you will, it is your right in a free society.

Huh.  What exactly is the best perspective that one can study anything? It seems to me that someone convinced that their perspective is "best" probably doesn’t have much interest in perspective at all. Evolution is a fact of reality for life, planetary formation, and the development of the universe. The "theory of evolution", which it still is, is still chopped up with many holes like swiss cheese, and remains to have too many unanswered questions in it.

Therein lies its beauty. For some reason, people are attracted to neat little answers that can be expressed in sound bites.  But if an answer is too easy, it’s probably not true. The theory of evolution doesn’t boil down to a sound bite.  It’s an ongoing, fluid attempt to answer questions about the origin of different species on Earth. These issues are not simple. Ancient Greeks believed lightning could be explained in a sound bite: "Zeus is throwing bolts from the sky."  It turned out that lightning was the result of incredibly complex electrical dynamics between the earth and suspended clouds of water vapor, which I am at a loss to explain fully. Research into this matter continues today: the Japanese have built a supercomputer the likes of which has never been seen, dedicated to running large-scale weather and geological simulations. In the middle ages, another prevailing belief was also a sound bite: "The heavens rotate around the earth."  No dice.  Galileo observed that orbits did not follow this pattern.  Kepler attempted to devise a system of mathematics to describe planetary motion.  It was on the right track, but wrong.  Newton attempted further explanation, which proved insightful but incomplete.  Einstein’s theories of general relativity, years after his death, proved useful in explaining certain orbital anomalies.  Research into orbits and gravitation continues today: NASA is engaged in a study of gravitational libration points – often-unstable areas where gravitational forces cancel each other out and leave a net sum of zero. I am unwilling to believe that the sound bite: "God created all the animals and humans as they are" could have any more validity than those.  The origin of life, and the origin of species, are incredibly complex issues, which deserve our full attention and study. Attempts to reduce evolution to a sound bite, like "Species evolve through natural selection" or "Man descended from monkeys", mistakenly render it as ridiculous as any other sound bite.  That’s not what evolution is about. Evolution is about inductive research: gather evidence, form theories, test those theories.  It is an ongoing, incomplete process. If evolution was accepted by everyone then creationism will become a fairy tale. Creation will never become a fairy tale to anyone except the atheists who seek to destroy humanity at all costs.

That’s not really a fair statement: those atheists I know are dedicated to preserving humanity at all costs.  Some creationists, on the other hand, are eagerly anticipating the end of the world. Our spontaneous creation by god is the fundamental cornerstone of christianity and many other religions. If we no longer were intentionally created, but instead evolved from other life forms, religions would completely loose any foundation it may have. This is why there is such resistance to evolution, not that it requires creationsim, but people are too scared to be wrong. Another reply that is wrought with loopholes and falasies using methods that still have work to be done to prove the atheist theory that the "theory of evolution" is the key to the beginnings of the human race. You still haven’t proven a thing.

I think, in life, you will find that it’s nearly impossible to prove anything at all. But that doesn’t give us carte blanche to write our own stories and ignore the world around us. Jon

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I found the following a long time ago and could not help but read it again to better understand why God exists.  After looking at the world around me, it is obvious because man needs all the help he can get to not blow up the world for his own pleasur like a little child with a temper tantrum.  And going out on our own away from God, that is exactly what we have become; little children with a bad temper and a lust for all the possessions we can get.  Well, happy reading and I hope this helps someone out there find a new understanding of who Jesus is and why God does exists. … When will you publish your next paper, Doctor Freud? Why, my friend, are you waiting for your next athesistic laugh?  You appear to live and devote your entire life to making jokes, so I would guess that you are.

He’s got to do something during this LONG wait for one of you creationist assholes to present ANY valid evidence to support your claims!

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you’re looking for proof that God exists in the Bible, forget it! If you search for a thing from the wrong POINT OF VIEW, you will never prove a thing.  Try a different approach.  This philosophy goes along with anything in life, and not limited to religious nature.  I will let your intelligent and scientific mind find that approach for yourself.  It is the only fair thing to do in order to keep you from feeling utterly USELESS.  God is truly beyond our human comprehension, and to box in, narrowly define and limit God to a book is totally asinine. Man, in all of his infinite wisdom, has already tried to place God in a box, with little success, I might add to the point of limiting him in almost every aspect of human life.  God is still in control of this world, whether we care to believe or not. Let me picture it this way for you.  If Jesus had come off of the cross at Calvary by divine power, what would the world be doing today?

            Getting beaten like DOGS by Him….. Paul – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  Ponder over this question for a while and get back with me.  Emails welcome, and are subject to use by me in whatever way that I see fit. Deletion is possible. So – since you cannot prove god exists, there is no valid reason to assume god exists! So, my friend, have you proven that God doesn’t exist?  That is the other question I pose tonight.  You have yet to do so in any form whatsoever, except to argue over trivial things because you appear to enjoy it. Oh, by the way, God is only unprovable to those who cannot, or will not believe. Shalom, Bill But the Bible is God’s Word for us to live by. You haven’t proven god exists – so any claims about the bible are meaningless! You have not proven that God doesn’t exist, so any claims that your infinite wisdom have presented are TOTALLY MEANINGLESS. Good night, and may God bless your life forever. Edgar

Response:

Unscientific, non-reality based opinion.

Yes, that is exactly where your mentality has lead you. Christianity and the belief in Creation is very scientific if looked about in the right way. How? Banging your head agasint the wall for a day, and then taking a double dose of LSD? You can only look at science in a scientific way!

A pity.  Limited mentality in your case is very dangerous.  How much LSD have you taken in a lifetime?  There might be a few missing or dead brain cells. As mentioned before, Creation and evolution go hand in hand. Do you mean the word creation …. well maybe. If you mean biblical creation – nonsense!

Biblical Creation and evolution can go hand in hand by a scientific stand point to tie up the "theory of evolutions" loose ends that scientists cannot explain.  All one has to do is to use all knowledge of mankind at his disposal, without throwing out a vast amount of it, dismissing it as fairy tales and fallasies. One cannot be truthfully explained without the other. Science has done quite well explaing things without needing (or finiding evidence for) a god!

Science is as baffled at this Creation and evolution thing today as it was a hundred years ago.  Many scientists, who are Christian, are turning to the Bible for answers to loose ends in the "theory of evolution". If it were so, then one or the other would have overtaken the world with little or know question whatsoever. Bull shit! Science has answers — plenty of them.

Science has many loose ends that cannot be explained without God or the Biblical history. Science does not have ALL the answers, and never will.

Because it dismisses too many facts leaving a lot of unanswered questions and loose ends that cannot be explained any other way except with God. Science is STILL based in reality, facts and evidence; creationism is still based in fables and fairy tales.

With a mentality like this, it is a wonder you made it out of Kindergarten.  Today, that age old debate still rages on, and on, and on. The debate is over. Unfortunately that does not stop ignorance from trying to spread.

As long as atheists and non-believers persist, ignorance will persist in the world, and scientific questions will go unanswered forever. When you take away a part of history, gaps begin to form, and holes in theories keep them as that, just theories. We will never fully understand until we accept reality that God does exist in this universe and all around us. I will accept that reality the moment you PROVE that reality! You haven’t, you won’t, you can’t! You can no more prove YOUR god than the acient Romans and Greeks could prove their multiple gods!

And I will except your reality the moment you can PROVE your theories without you eliminating many facts of human history.  It still hasn’t been done by the all-knowing, all-powerful atheists and non-believers. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – BTW….there is a born again, fundamentalist christian in the White  House who, it appears, is just like the arrogant, selfish and uncontrollable child you  describe. Funny, I know that G.W. is a Christian, and to my belief has handled this crisin we are in quite well. I assume you mean crisis. He CREATED this crisis, by handling a situation like a moron! he is no longer concerned (interested?) in bin Laden (the man who caluse the tragedy) and is now trying to engage us in an invasion of a nation that has little, if anything, to do with 9/11!

And if you have concrete proof of this, then why don’t you excercise your rights in this nation and head up an impeachment procedure to remove him from office.  With your infinite wisdom, you do know that you can do that?  Of course you did.   Even better than I believed at first as he rushed off to start a war.  But he has not blasted Iraq out of existence because he knows that Saddam is waiting for him or someone to do just that so he can pounce like a waiting cat stalking its prey.  Saddam wants the US to go rushing in blindly bombing Iraq and the innocent peoples so he can look very good in the eyes of the world.  If you cannot see this, you are blind as a bat. Iraq has nothing to do qith 9/11. It is ENTIRELY a Bush corrupt, incompetent, political move!

And you have concrete proof of this?  We are dealing with a maniac in this little nation of Iraq that would sell his own grandmother for a buck, and a chance to remain in power, as would many Americans, if not all.  Do you have concrete proof that he was NOT supplying weapons to terrorists factions of the Muslim religion of Islam?  If so, present it.  I am sure the state department, as well as the president would like to see it as well, or are you as a Darwinian evolutionist used to hiding, withholding, destroying, or discarding the facts?  Bush and his administration have handled this situation very well despite how it started out. So why is he no longer interested in the man that caused the death of thousands of Americans?

And you have privy information on the inside of his mind that the rest of us are not privy to?  Enlighten us so we can believe too. If war is to be, then it has to be and will be time, but no sooner, or not a minute later.  Read Ecclesiastes 3:1-8.  If you have a Bible, look it up and read it.

You can acquire a Bible at any retail store, book store, or library. It would be a useful tool for you to broaden your search for the truth. War does not have to be … that’s deranged. You bible quotes mean nothing!

The Bible is God’s plan, our guide, and a book that is good for discipline, wisdom, finances, moral values, history, psychology, families, education, medical, and much, much more.  You should try reading it sometimes.  A lot of your questions and falasies in your beliefs could be answered.  The loopholes that you believe in could become closed, and your intelligence might be greatly improved. So you see, God has allowed mankind a time for everything that is under heaven. What god? You haven’t proven ANY god!

 I took the liberty of writing this for you all to see it for yourself and that I am not making it up. No one accused you of making up the bible; just that the bible (YOUR religous beliefs) are based on fables and fairy tales – not fact!

are just fairy tales?  Interesting.  The kingdoms and peoples that existed in the past, and the past in general, are all just fairy tales.  An interesting concept of our World History, you should write silently I smile with a smirking grin! I have given you the scriptures to view it for yourselves which is a very good practice rather than taking ones word for it as many people in our history have done due to illiteracy which reigned supreme and gave many religious leaders power to control their lives for a long, long time. Your "scriptures" mean nothing! They are a part of your religion – not the real world!

Christ and Christianity are as much a part of the real world as dinosaurs, man, and all that is in it.  Your philosophy is so full of holes that it can never possibly hold water (or anything else).  I see you didn’t post the scriptures, but you left the place where they could be found in the only book that has withstood the test of time. God does exist, and if you open your eyes, ears, and mind, you can see him too, in all of his glory.  Happy reading and may God richly bless you for doing this. My eyes, ears and mind are always open … to evidence. You have none; only religious babbling!

As is your babbling about things that you cannot prove.  My eyes, ears, and mind are too always open to everything and not just bits and pieces I choose for my own.  I am open to science, Creation, Evolution, God, Heaven, Hell, witchcraft and occult, and much, much more, because I believe that all of it plays a vital part of our human history and ancestry.  Atheists and non-believers, however, discard and dismiss parts of it and thus limits our history, knowledge, and understanding.  Atheists are as the Liberals of our democratic society here in America.  They only see what they wish to see, and dismiss the rest as "fairy tales". That blows your whole delusion to bits! It does nothing to anything as you have not yet proven that God doesn’t exist. You haven’t shown one shred of evidence god does exist! The burden is yours.

A typical atheistic cop out.  The burden also rest upon yourself.  You have an infinite wisdom, use it without deleting the facts of history and removing them from the eyes and ears of our children to prove that God doesnt’ exist.  Until I see it, I will always believe that GOD DOES EXIST regardless of what fractured evidence you might present Of course you can’t, so I don’t have to worry.   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  Try giving the real Jesus a try and step away from your denominalational Jesus.  You will see the difference for once in your life.  I did, and he has helped me through some of the toughest times of my life.  You also cannot explain away the miracles that still happen today as we go through this life.  So give God a try

… read more »

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You obviously don’t understand human nature very well. I understand human nature better than YOU will ever know.  I have lived it as well as studied the human mind from the best perspective that one can study anything.  So believe what you will, it is your right in a free society. Evolution is a fact of reality for life, planetary formation, and the development of the universe. The "theory of evolution", which it still is, is still chopped up with many holes like swiss cheese, and remains to have too many unanswered questions in it. If evolution was accepted by everyone then creationism will become a fairy tale. Creation will never become a fairy tale to anyone except the atheists who seek to destroy humanity at all costs. Our spontaneous creation by god is the fundamental cornerstone of christianity and many other religions. If we no longer were intentionally created, but instead evolved from other life forms, religions would completely loose any foundation it may have. This is why there is such resistance to evolution, not that it requires creationsim, but people are too scared to be wrong. Another reply that is wrought with loopholes and falasies using methods that still have work to be done to prove the atheist theory that the "theory of evolution" is the key to the beginnings of the human race. You still haven’t proven a thing.

Neither have you. Cosmopolite God delights in diversity.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you’re looking for proof that God exists in the Bible, forget it! God is truly beyond our human comprehension, and to box in, narrowly define and limit God to a book is totally asinine. So – since you cannot prove god exists, there is no valid reason to assume god exists! Shalom, Bill But the Bible is God’s Word for us to live by. You haven’t proven god exists – so any claims about the bible are meaningless!

I second this one

Response:

Unscientific, non-reality based opinion. Christianity and the belief in Creation is very scientific if looked about in the right way.  As mentioned before, Creation and evolution go hand in hand.  One cannot be truthfully explained without the other.  If it were so, then one or the other would have overtaken the world with little or know question whatsoever.  Today, that age old debate still rages on, and on, and on.  We will never fully understand until we accept reality that God does exist in this universe and all around us.

I thout the age old question was   Wich came first the chican or the egg – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – BTW….there is a born again, fundamentalist christian in the White House who, it appears, is just like the arrogant, selfish and uncontrollable child you describe. Funny, I know that G.W. is a Christian, and to my belief has handled this crisin we are in quite well.  Even better than I believed at first as he rushed off to start a war.  But he has not blasted Iraq out of existence because he knows that Saddam is waiting for him or someone to do just that so he can pounce like a waiting cat stalking its prey.  Saddam wants the US to go rushing in blindly bombing Iraq and the innocent peoples so he can look very good in the eyes of the world.  If you cannot see this, you are blind as a bat.  Bush and his administration have handled this situation very well despite how it started out.  If war is to be, then it has to be and will be time, but no sooner, or not a minute later.  Read Ecclesiastes 3:1-8.  If you have a Bible, look it up and read it. 1.  "To everything there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven. 2.  A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted; 3.  A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up; 4.  A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance; 5.  A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain form embracing; 6.  A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away. 7.  A time rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak; 8.  A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace." So you see, God has allowed mankind a time for everything that is under heaven.  I took the liberty of writing this for you all to see it for yourself and that I am not making it up.  I have given you the scriptures to view it for yourselves which is a very good practice rather than taking ones word for it as many people in our history have done due to illiteracy which reigned supreme and gave many religious leaders power to control their lives for a long, long time. God does exist, and if you open your eyes, ears, and mind, you can see him too, in all of his glory.  Happy reading and may God richly bless you for doing this. That blows your whole delusion to bits! It does nothing to anything as you have not yet proven that God doesn’t exist.  Try giving the real Jesus a try and step away from your denominalational Jesus.  You will see the difference for once in your life.  I did, and he has helped me through some of the toughest times of my life.  You also cannot explain away the miracles that still happen today as we go through this life.  So give God a try through Jesus Christ.

Response:

If you’re looking for proof that God exists in the Bible, forget it!

If you search for a thing from the wrong POINT OF VIEW, you will never prove a thing.  Try a different approach.  This philosophy goes along with anything in life, and not limited to religious nature.  I will let your intelligent and scientific mind find that approach for yourself.  It is the only fair thing to do in order to keep you from feeling utterly USELESS.  God is truly beyond our human comprehension, and to box in, narrowly define and limit God to a book is totally asinine.

Man, in all of his infinite wisdom, has already tried to place God in a box, with little success, I might add to the point of limiting him in almost every aspect of human life.  God is still in control of this world, whether we care to believe or not. Let me picture it this way for you.  If Jesus had come off of the cross at Calvary by divine power, what would the world be doing today?  Ponder over this question for a while and get back with me.  Emails welcome, and are subject to use by me in whatever way that I see fit. Deletion is possible. So – since you cannot prove god exists, there is no valid reason to assume god exists!

So, my friend, have you proven that God doesn’t exist?  That is the other question I pose tonight.  You have yet to do so in any form whatsoever, except to argue over trivial things because you appear to enjoy it. Oh, by the way, God is only unprovable to those who cannot, or will not believe. Shalom, Bill But the Bible is God’s Word for us to live by. You haven’t proven god exists – so any claims about the bible are meaningless!

You have not proven that God doesn’t exist, so any claims that your infinite wisdom have presented are TOTALLY MEANINGLESS. Good night, and may God bless your life forever. Edgar

Response:

Unscientific, non-reality based opinion. Christianity and the belief in Creation is very scientific if looked about in the right way.  As mentioned before, Creation and evolution go hand in hand.  One cannot be truthfully explained without the other.  If it were so, then one or the other would have overtaken the world with little or know question whatsoever.  

You obviously don’t understand human nature very well. Evolution is a fact of reality for life, planetary formation, and the development of the universe. If evolution was accepted by everyone then creationism will become a fairy tale. Our spontaneous creation by god is the fundamental cornerstone of christianity and many other religions. If we no longer were intentionally created, but instead evolved from other life forms, religions would completely loose any foundation it may have. This is why there is such resistance to evolution, not that it requires creationsim, but people are too scared to be wrong.

Response:

I found the following a long time ago and could not help but read it again to better understand why God exists.  After looking at the world around me, it is obvious because man needs all the help he can get to not blow up the world for his own pleasur like a little child with a temper tantrum.  And going out on our own away from God, that is exactly what we have become; little children with a bad temper and a lust for all the possessions we can get.  Well, happy reading and I hope this helps someone out there find a new understanding of who Jesus is and why God does exists. … When will you publish your next paper, Doctor Freud?

Why, my friend, are you waiting for your next athesistic laugh?  You appear to live and devote your entire life to making jokes, so I would guess that you are.

Response:

You obviously don’t understand human nature very well.

I understand human nature better than YOU will ever know.  I have lived it as well as studied the human mind from the best perspective that one can study anything.  So believe what you will, it is your right in a free society. Evolution is a fact of reality for life, planetary formation, and the development of the universe.

The "theory of evolution", which it still is, is still chopped up with many holes like swiss cheese, and remains to have too many unanswered questions in it. If evolution was accepted by everyone then creationism will become a fairy tale.

Creation will never become a fairy tale to anyone except the atheists who seek to destroy humanity at all costs. Our spontaneous creation by god is the fundamental cornerstone of christianity and many other religions. If we no longer were intentionally created, but instead evolved from other life forms, religions would completely loose any foundation it may have. This is why there is such resistance to evolution, not that it requires creationsim, but people are too scared to be wrong.

Another reply that is wrought with loopholes and falasies using methods that still have work to be done to prove the atheist theory that the "theory of evolution" is the key to the beginnings of the human race. You still haven’t proven a thing.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Unscientific, non-reality based opinion. Christianity and the belief in Creation is very scientific if looked about in the right way.  As mentioned before, Creation and evolution go hand in hand.  One cannot be truthfully explained without the other.  If it were so, then one or the other would have overtaken the world with little or know question whatsoever.  Today, that age old debate still rages on, and on, and on.  We will never fully understand until we accept reality that God does exist in this universe and all around us. BTW….there is a born again, fundamentalist christian in the White House who, it appears, is just like the arrogant, selfish and uncontrollable child you describe. Funny, I know that G.W. is a Christian, and to my belief has handled this crisin we are in quite well.  Even better than I believed at first as he rushed off to start a war.  But he has not blasted Iraq out of existence because he knows that Saddam is waiting for him or someone to do just that so he can pounce like a waiting cat stalking its prey.  Saddam wants the US to go rushing in blindly bombing Iraq and the innocent peoples so he can look very good in the eyes of the world.  If you cannot see this, you are blind as a bat.  Bush and his administration have handled this situation very well despite how it started out.  If war is to be, then it has to be and will be time, but no sooner, or not a minute later.  Read Ecclesiastes 3:1-8.  If you have a Bible, look it up and read it. 1.  "To everything there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven. 2.  A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted; 3.  A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up; 4.  A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance; 5.  A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain form embracing; 6.  A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away. 7.  A time rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak; 8.  A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace." So you see, God has allowed mankind a time for everything that is under heaven.  I took the liberty of writing this for you all to see it for yourself and that I am not making it up.  I have given you the scriptures to view it for yourselves which is a very good practice rather than taking ones word for it as many people in our history have done due to illiteracy which reigned supreme and gave many religious leaders power to control their lives for a long, long time. God does exist, and if you open your eyes, ears, and mind, you can see him too, in all of his glory.  Happy reading and may God richly bless you for doing this. That blows your whole delusion to bits! It does nothing to anything as you have not yet proven that God doesn’t exist.  Try giving the real Jesus a try and step away from your denominalational Jesus.  You will see the difference for once in your life.  I did, and he has helped me through some of the toughest times of my life.  You also cannot explain away the miracles that still happen today as we go through this life.  So give God a try through Jesus Christ. Please explain the " miracles " that are mentioned above. Cosmopolite God delights in diversity.

Miracles are the christians way of spells and wichcraft but they say it is richas and thusfore Good

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you’re looking for proof that God exists in the Bible, forget it! God is truly beyond our human comprehension, and to box in, narrowly define and limit God to a book is totally asinine. Shalom, Bill But the Bible is God’s Word for us to live by.  It is a guidebook, a book of discipline, a history book, a psychology book, as well as a book of prophesy that explains things that many an adult cannot fathom or come anywhere close to understanding.  Why?  Because most seculiar humans are looking at God from a worldly point of view without ever knowing him personally.  In this way, he becomes ever elusive seeking out only those who believe by faith and ask Jesus for forgiveness of their sins, for it is this man Jesus who has bridged the gap between God and man over the great divide of sin that separates the two. Without him, despite what many atheists, wiccans, and non-believers would say, no one will see the Father in heaven. Thank you for your time in allowing me to respond to this post.  May God bless you in your life forever.

the bible is nothing more than a fictianal noval created buy people with a need to hide ther lust for money ,power,and pleshur

Response:

Unscientific, non-reality based opinion. Christianity and the belief in Creation is very scientific if looked about in the right way.

How? Banging your head agasint the wall for a day, and then taking a double dose of LSD? You can only look at science in a scientific way! As mentioned before, Creation and evolution go hand in hand.

Do you mean the word creation …. well maybe. If you mean biblical creation – nonsense! One cannot be truthfully explained without the other.

Science has done quite well explaing things without needing (or finiding evidence for) a god! If it were so, then one or the other would have overtaken the world with little or know question whatsoever.

Bull shit! Science has answers — plenty of them. Science does not have ALL the answers, and never will. Science is STILL based in reality, facts and evidence; creationism is still based in fables and fairy tales.  Today, that age old debate still rages on, and on, and on.

The debate is over. Unfortunately that does not stop ignorance from trying to spread. We will never fully understand until we accept reality that God does exist in this universe and all around us.

I will accept that reality the moment you PROVE that reality! You haven’t, you won’t, you can’t! You can no more prove YOUR god than the acient Romans and Greeks could prove their multiple gods! BTW….there is a born again, fundamentalist christian in the White House who, it appears, is just like the arrogant, selfish and uncontrollable child you describe. Funny, I know that G.W. is a Christian, and to my belief has handled this crisin we are in quite well.

I assume you mean crisis. He CREATED this crisis, by handling a situation like a moron! he is no longer concerned (interested?) in bin Laden (the man who caluse the tragedy) and is now trying to engage us in an invasion of a nation that has little, if anything, to do with 9/11!   Even better than I believed at first as he rushed off to start a war.  But he has not blasted Iraq out of existence because he knows that Saddam is waiting for him or someone to do just that so he can pounce like a waiting cat stalking its prey.  Saddam wants the US to go rushing in blindly bombing Iraq and the innocent peoples so he can look very good in the eyes of the world.  If you cannot see this, you are blind as a bat.

Iraq has nothing to do qith 9/11. It is ENTIRELY a Bush corrupt, incompetent, political move!  Bush and his administration have handled this situation very well despite how it started out.

So why is he no longer interested in the man that caused the death of thousands of Americans? If war is to be, then it has to be and will be time, but no sooner, or not a minute later.  Read Ecclesiastes 3:1-8.  If you have a Bible, look it up and read it.

War does not have to be … that’s deranged. You bible quotes mean nothing! So you see, God has allowed mankind a time for everything that is under heaven.

What god? You haven’t proven ANY god!  I took the liberty of writing this for you all to see it for yourself and that I am not making it up.

No one accused you of making up the bible; just that the bible (YOUR religous beliefs) are based on fables and fairy tales – not fact! I have given you the scriptures to view it for yourselves which is a very good practice rather than taking ones word for it as many people in our history have done due to illiteracy which reigned supreme and gave many religious leaders power to control their lives for a long, long time.

Your "scriptures" mean nothing! They are a part of your religion – not the real world! God does exist, and if you open your eyes, ears, and mind, you can see him too, in all of his glory.  Happy reading and may God richly bless you for doing this.

My eyes, ears and mind are always open … to evidence. You have none; only religious babbling! That blows your whole delusion to bits! It does nothing to anything as you have not yet proven that God doesn’t exist.

You haven’t shown one shred of evidence god does exist! The burden is yours.  Try giving the real Jesus a try and step away from your denominalational Jesus.  You will see the difference for once in your life.  I did, and he has helped me through some of the toughest times of my life.  You also cannot explain away the miracles that still happen today as we go through this life.  So give God a try through Jesus Christ.

The very moment you provide evidence! and don’t even think about that insane crap that I have to try it first in order to believe! All that says is I have to be brainwashed into learning that what I’m being brainwashed about is true!

Response:

I found the following a long time ago and could not help but read it again to better understand why God exists.  After looking at the world around me, it is obvious because man needs all the help he can get to not blow up the world for his own pleasur like a little child with a temper tantrum.  And going out on our own away from God, that is exactly what we have become; little children with a bad temper and a lust for all the possessions we can get.  Well, happy reading and I hope this helps someone out there find a new understanding of who Jesus is and why God does exists.

Unscientific, non-reality based opinion. BTW….there is a born again, fundamentalist christian in the White House who, it appears, is just like the arrogant, selfish and uncontrollable child you describe. That blows your whole delusion to bits!

Response:

If you’re looking for proof that God exists in the Bible, forget it!  God is truly beyond our human comprehension, and to box in, narrowly define and limit God to a book is totally asinine. Shalom, Bill

But the Bible is God’s Word for us to live by.  It is a guidebook, a book of discipline, a history book, a psychology book, as well as a book of prophesy that explains things that many an adult cannot fathom or come anywhere close to understanding.  Why?  Because most seculiar humans are looking at God from a worldly point of view without ever knowing him personally.  In this way, he becomes ever elusive seeking out only those who believe by faith and ask Jesus for forgiveness of their sins, for it is this man Jesus who has bridged the gap between God and man over the great divide of sin that separates the two. Without him, despite what many atheists, wiccans, and non-believers would say, no one will see the Father in heaven. Thank you for your time in allowing me to respond to this post.  May God bless you in your life forever.

Response:

Unscientific, non-reality based opinion.

Christianity and the belief in Creation is very scientific if looked about in the right way.  As mentioned before, Creation and evolution go hand in hand.  One cannot be truthfully explained without the other.  If it were so, then one or the other would have overtaken the world with little or know question whatsoever.  Today, that age old debate still rages on, and on, and on.  We will never fully understand until we accept reality that God does exist in this universe and all around us. BTW….there is a born again, fundamentalist christian in the White House who, it appears, is just like the arrogant, selfish and uncontrollable child you describe.

Funny, I know that G.W. is a Christian, and to my belief has handled this crisin we are in quite well.  Even better than I believed at first as he rushed off to start a war.  But he has not blasted Iraq out of existence because he knows that Saddam is waiting for him or someone to do just that so he can pounce like a waiting cat stalking its prey.  Saddam wants the US to go rushing in blindly bombing Iraq and the innocent peoples so he can look very good in the eyes of the world.  If you cannot see this, you are blind as a bat.  Bush and his administration have handled this situation very well despite how it started out.  If war is to be, then it has to be and will be time, but no sooner, or not a minute later.  Read Ecclesiastes 3:1-8.  If you have a Bible, look it up and read it. 1.  "To everything there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven. 2.  A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted; 3.  A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up; 4.  A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance; 5.  A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain form embracing; 6.  A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away. 7.  A time rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak; 8.  A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace." So you see, God has allowed mankind a time for everything that is under heaven.  I took the liberty of writing this for you all to see it for yourself and that I am not making it up.  I have given you the scriptures to view it for yourselves which is a very good practice rather than taking ones word for it as many people in our history have done due to illiteracy which reigned supreme and gave many religious leaders power to control their lives for a long, long time. God does exist, and if you open your eyes, ears, and mind, you can see him too, in all of his glory.  Happy reading and may God richly bless you for doing this. That blows your whole delusion to bits!

It does nothing to anything as you have not yet proven that God doesn’t exist.  Try giving the real Jesus a try and step away from your denominalational Jesus.  You will see the difference for once in your life.  I did, and he has helped me through some of the toughest times of my life.  You also cannot explain away the miracles that still happen today as we go through this life.  So give God a try through Jesus Christ.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Unscientific, non-reality based opinion. Christianity and the belief in Creation is very scientific if looked about in the right way.  As mentioned before, Creation and evolution go hand in hand.  One cannot be truthfully explained without the other.  If it were so, then one or the other would have overtaken the world with little or know question whatsoever.  Today, that age old debate still rages on, and on, and on.  We will never fully understand until we accept reality that God does exist in this universe and all around us. BTW….there is a born again, fundamentalist christian in the White House who, it appears, is just like the arrogant, selfish and uncontrollable child you describe. Funny, I know that G.W. is a Christian, and to my belief has handled this crisin we are in quite well.  Even better than I believed at first as he rushed off to start a war.  But he has not blasted Iraq out of existence because he knows that Saddam is waiting for him or someone to do just that so he can pounce like a waiting cat stalking its prey.  Saddam wants the US to go rushing in blindly bombing Iraq and the innocent peoples so he can look very good in the eyes of the world.  If you cannot see this, you are blind as a bat.  Bush and his administration have handled this situation very well despite how it started out.  If war is to be, then it has to be and will be time, but no sooner, or not a minute later.  Read Ecclesiastes 3:1-8.  If you have a Bible, look it up and read it. 1.  "To everything there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven. 2.  A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted; 3.  A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up; 4.  A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance; 5.  A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain form embracing; 6.  A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away. 7.  A time rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak; 8.  A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace." So you see, God has allowed mankind a time for everything that is under heaven.  I took the liberty of writing this for you all to see it for yourself and that I am not making it up.  I have given you the scriptures to view it for yourselves which is a very good practice rather than taking ones word for it as many people in our history have done due to illiteracy which reigned supreme and gave many religious leaders power to control their lives for a long, long time. God does exist, and if you open your eyes, ears, and mind, you can see him too, in all of his glory.  Happy reading and may God richly bless you for doing this. That blows your whole delusion to bits! It does nothing to anything as you have not yet proven that God doesn’t exist.  Try giving the real Jesus a try and step away from your denominalational Jesus.  You will see the difference for once in your life.  I did, and he has helped me through some of the toughest times of my life.  You also cannot explain away the miracles that still happen today as we go through this life.  So give God a try through Jesus Christ.

Please explain the " miracles " that are mentioned above. Cosmopolite God delights in diversity.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I found the following a long time ago and could not help but read it again to better understand why God exists.  After looking at the world around me, it is obvious because man needs all the help he can get to not blow up the world for his own pleasur like a little child with a temper tantrum.  And going out on our own away from God, that is exactly what we have become; little children with a bad temper and a lust for all the possessions we can get.  Well, happy reading and I hope this helps someone out there find a new understanding of who Jesus is and why God does exists. Saturday, March 8, 2003: Devotional: Orderliness in our Christian life: Science and Creation together as one: an old concept in a new light: To the Christian, Creation reveals God’s wisdom and power and orderliness. The study of science provides a means for us to get a glimpse of His unfathomable wisdom. The Bible says, "The works of the Lord are great, studied by all who have pleasure in them" (Psalm 111:2). Finding pleasure in the works of God is a legitimate, pure motivation to pursue the study of science. By contrast a humanist, atheist, or agnostic, and non-believer typically looks at science as a means of showing that God is not needed. He next assumes that since God is not needed that it is irrational to believe that He does exist. The scientific method is simply a process which earlier scientists developed in an effort to qualify the order that they observed in the universe. It consists of: 1) developing models, such that the models describe how the universe normally behaves, 2) testing the models in an experiment in order to determine the scopes of their validities, and then 3) modifying the models as necessary to make them more consistent with the observations. Thus, the scientific method is limited to providing us with information in the form of descriptions and measurements. It does not tell us the underlying reasons for anything. The Bible teaches that God is a God of order and not confusion. As a scientist looks at Creation, he not only recognizes orderliness in the structure of things, but his entire system is founded and dependent on its existence. Even the modern field of "chaos theory" is dependent upon observed events which are chaotic from man’s perspective but which still have certain characteristic qualities which render them capable of analysis. Thus, the Christian sees the orderliness of the universe as an outward expression of God’s innate orderliness. In one sense, science does not have the tools to determine this: there is no tool or instrument which can measure the boundaries of Deity, by the very definition of Deity. Yet, science is not necessarily completely silent on the issue either. Let’s consider the origin of life, which the Bible presents as among the greatest of God’s works. I believe that if an attempt is made to reduce the origin of life to purely natural, "scientific" causes, one ends up with nothing but dead ends and contradictions. This may not be what is typically taught by atheists within the science community, but I will attempt to justify this position over the next several chapters. Let’s suppose we can indeed show that one runs into dead ends and contradictions whenever he attempts to explain the origin of life through natural means exclusively, apart from intervention by God. Then we would be left with the only rational explanation for life being that God is its source. This in turn would imply that He exists. Furthermore, the Bible teaches that God considers this to be a valid argument. Therefore, a person should be very, very cautious about discarding it, particularly before he considers carefully the evidence. "The heavens declare the glory of God; and the expanse of heaven shows the work of His hands" (Psalm 19:1). "Let everything that has breath praise the Lord"  (Psalm 150:6). . I hope this is helpful to anyone who is struggling with the age old debate of science and religion Creation and Evolution.  It can be easily explained if one does not discard any valuable information such as we already know.  This valuable information includes the theories that have come before us by the very scientists and theologists who have gone on now to know the truth.  They were the forerunners of our own understanding of the universe in which we live whether they were Christian or not.  Many still do not believe in the Creation theory, but I have always believed that evolution and Creation can go hand in hand if one accepts the theory of the "order of the universe" and will not discard a valuable variable such as God as fallacy, fantasy, or fairy tales.  When we do this, there is a tendency to create confusion among the population as it would be to discard the variable of evolution.  The two go hand in hand and should be treated as such. "…..For we trust we have a good conscience, in all things willing to live honestly

If you’re looking for proof that God exists in the Bible, forget it!  God is truly beyond our human comprehension, and to box in, narrowly define and limit God to a book is totally asinine. Shalom, Bill

Response:

If you’re looking for proof that God exists in the Bible, forget it! God is truly beyond our human comprehension, and to box in, narrowly define and limit God to a book is totally asinine.

So – since you cannot prove god exists, there is no valid reason to assume god exists! Shalom, Bill But the Bible is God’s Word for us to live by.

You haven’t proven god exists – so any claims about the bible are meaningless!

Response:

I found the following a long time ago and could not help but read it again to better understand why God exists.  After looking at the world around me, it is obvious because man needs all the help he can get to not blow up the world for his own pleasur like a little child with a temper tantrum.  And going out on our own away from God, that is exactly what we have become; little children with a bad temper and a lust for all the possessions we can get.  Well, happy reading and I hope this helps someone out there find a new understanding of who Jesus is and why God does exists.

… When will you publish your next paper, Doctor Freud?

Response:

I found the following a long time ago and could not help but read it again to better understand why God exists.  After looking at the world around me, it is obvious because man needs all the help he can get to not blow up the world for his own pleasur like a little child with a temper tantrum.  And going out on our own away from God, that is exactly what we have become; little children with a bad temper and a lust for all the possessions we can get.  Well, happy reading and I hope this helps someone out there find a new understanding of who Jesus is and why God does exists. Saturday, March 8, 2003: Devotional: Orderliness in our Christian life: Science and Creation together as one: an old concept in a new light: To the Christian, Creation reveals God’s wisdom and power and orderliness. The study of science provides a means for us to get a glimpse of His unfathomable wisdom. The Bible says, "The works of the Lord are great, studied by all who have pleasure in them" (Psalm 111:2). Finding pleasure in the works of God is a legitimate, pure motivation to pursue the study of science. By contrast a humanist, atheist, or agnostic, and non-believer typically looks at science as a means of showing that God is not needed. He next assumes that since God is not needed that it is irrational to believe that He does exist. The scientific method is simply a process which earlier scientists developed in an effort to qualify the order that they observed in the universe. It consists of: 1) developing models, such that the models describe how the universe normally behaves, 2) testing the models in an experiment in order to determine the scopes of their validities, and then 3) modifying the models as necessary to make them more consistent with the observations. Thus, the scientific method is limited to providing us with information in the form of descriptions and measurements. It does not tell us the underlying reasons for anything. The Bible teaches that God is a God of order and not confusion. As a scientist looks at Creation, he not only recognizes orderliness in the structure of things, but his entire system is founded and dependent on its existence. Even the modern field of "chaos theory" is dependent upon observed events which are chaotic from man’s perspective but which still have certain characteristic qualities which render them capable of analysis. Thus, the Christian sees the orderliness of the universe as an outward expression of God’s innate orderliness. In one sense, science does not have the tools to determine this: there is no tool or instrument which can measure the boundaries of Deity, by the very definition of Deity. Yet, science is not necessarily completely silent on the issue either. Let’s consider the origin of life, which the Bible presents as among the greatest of God’s works. I believe that if an attempt is made to reduce the origin of life to purely natural, "scientific" causes, one ends up with nothing but dead ends and contradictions. This may not be what is typically taught by atheists within the science community, but I will attempt to justify this position over the next several chapters. Let’s suppose we can indeed show that one runs into dead ends and contradictions whenever he attempts to explain the origin of life through natural means exclusively, apart from intervention by God. Then we would be left with the only rational explanation for life being that God is its source. This in turn would imply that He exists. Furthermore, the Bible teaches that God considers this to be a valid argument. Therefore, a person should be very, very cautious about discarding it, particularly before he considers carefully the evidence. "The heavens declare the glory of God; and the expanse of heaven shows the work of His hands" (Psalm 19:1). "Let everything that has breath praise the Lord"  (Psalm 150:6). . I hope this is helpful to anyone who is struggling with the age old debate of science and religion Creation and Evolution.  It can be easily explained if one does not discard any valuable information such as we already know.  This valuable information includes the theories that have come before us by the very scientists and theologists who have gone on now to know the truth.  They were the forerunners of our own understanding of the universe in which we live whether they were Christian or not.  Many still do not believe in the Creation theory, but I have always believed that evolution and Creation can go hand in hand if one accepts the theory of the "order of the universe" and will not discard a valuable variable such as God as fallacy, fantasy, or fairy tales.  When we do this, there is a tendency to create confusion among the population as it would be to discard the variable of evolution.  The two go hand in hand and should be treated as such. "…..For we trust we have a good conscience, in all things willing to live honestly

Response:

Question:

Hi Sophie, When I went on Zoloft for the first time, two years ago, I didn’t have any side-effects at all!! I had another doctor at that time. Now, the new doctor gave me the 50mg. I told her I remembered starting with a lower dose last time, but she said, no, 50 mg are the normal starting dose.

To bad we couldn`t make her take 50mgs of Zoloft and see if she likes it<EG!! Since my memory is generally very bad these days, I didn’t want to insist. Later, when the side-effects got so bad, I asked her again if I shouldn’t have started with a lower dose… she said no again.

I hate hearing this!! So many people are afraid to take anti-depressants because of bad experiences like this. You should have started at  12.5mgs or 25mgs, and weaned slowly. I also asked her if I couldn’t go up to the 100 mg a little slower then just doubling the dose. She said that wouldn’t have any effect at all. –

Well, the other day I went through my drawers and discovered a lonely left-over Zoloft tablet from two years ago, 25mg… Well, this teaches me to trust my own mind, however impaired it may be through depression and AD.. and not to believe everything my doc tells me. Thanks for your information!

Your welcome. I feel bad that you had to go through something like this. I am glad you realize that the fault lays with your doctor and not the Zoloft. Take care and good luck. Jackie "Am I right side up or upside down? Is this real or am I dreaming?"

Response:

Hi Jackie, When I went on Zoloft for the first time, two years ago, I didn’t have any side-effects at all!! I had another doctor at that time. Now, the new doctor gave me the 50mg.

Is she a GP or a psychiatrist? I told her I remembered starting with a lower dose last time, but she said, no, 50 mg are the normal starting dose.

12,5 mgs sounds more like it. Since my memory is generally very bad these days, I didn’t want to insist. Later, when the side-effects got so bad, I asked her again if I shouldn’t have started with a lower dose… she said no again.

Sweet, caring doc you have there…. I also asked her if I couldn’t go up to the 100 mg a little slower then just doubling the dose. She said that wouldn’t have any effect at all. –

Good grief….she doesn’t know the first thing about oanic and medication. Well, the other day I went through my drawers and discovered a lonely left-over Zoloft tablet from two years ago, 25mg… Well, this teaches me to trust my own mind, however impaired it may be through depression and AD.. and not to believe everything my doc tells me. Thanks for your information!

Sack the doc! Sophie

Philip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Sophie, You don`t have to go right to 100mgs….you could wean slowly to that dose, that is up to you though. You could go to 75mgs, or even 62.5mgs by cutting the tablet, you would stay at that dose for a week then either increase in 25mg increments, or 12.5mg increments until you reached the 100mgs. For many people a slow weaning process helps to minimize the side-effects. Alot of the side-effects you describe are normal, even the increase in anxiety, perhaps you didn`t wean to 50mgs, you just started at 50mgs? That could explain the hard time you had. Increase in anxiety can be helped by getting a script for a benzo, nausea can be helped by taking the Zoloft on a full stomach. Insomnia can be helped by taking the Zoloft in the AM. Fatigue should dissipate over time. Good luck. Jackie Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

Hi Jackie, When I went on Zoloft for the first time, two years ago, I didn’t have any side-effects at all!! I had another doctor at that time. Now, the new doctor gave me the 50mg. I told her I remembered starting with a lower dose last time, but she said, no, 50 mg are the normal starting dose. Since my memory is generally very bad these days, I didn’t want to insist. Later, when the side-effects got so bad, I asked her again if I shouldn’t have started with a lower dose… she said no again. I also asked her if I couldn’t go up to the 100 mg a little slower then just doubling the dose. She said that wouldn’t have any effect at all. – Well, the other day I went through my drawers and discovered a lonely left-over Zoloft tablet from two years ago, 25mg… Well, this teaches me to trust my own mind, however impaired it may be through depression and AD.. and not to believe everything my doc tells me. Thanks for your information! Sophie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Sophie, You don`t have to go right to 100mgs….you could wean slowly to that dose, that is up to you though. You could go to 75mgs, or even 62.5mgs by cutting the tablet, you would stay at that dose for a week then either increase in 25mg increments, or 12.5mg increments until you reached the 100mgs. For many people a slow weaning process helps to minimize the side-effects. Alot of the side-effects you describe are normal, even the increase in anxiety, perhaps you didn`t wean to 50mgs, you just started at 50mgs? That could explain the hard time you had. Increase in anxiety can be helped by getting a script for a benzo, nausea can be helped by taking the Zoloft on a full stomach. Insomnia can be helped by taking the Zoloft in the AM. Fatigue should dissipate over time. Good luck. Jackie

Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

writes – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hi all, I have a question about Zoloft and Valerian. I just moved, I left my boyfriend of 4 years and moved in with two roommates. They are absolutely sweet and all the changes in my life are for the better, but still I find my anxiety skyrocketing!! It is as bad a I never thought it would be… I am on 50 mg of Zoloft and I don’t really want to increase the dose (I don’t even know if it would help at all, since it works mainly against depression, not the anxiety itself, if I understand this correctly?), so I thought I’d try some Valerian to get me through the day and help me sleep. Do any of you have any information on SSRIs and Valerian? I seem to recall somebody saying one shouldn’t mix them… but on the other hand I always thought Valerian is a relatively harmless herb… some feedback would be greatly appreciated, Sophie Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

I tried Valerian some time ago, and I can’t say that I was very impressed personally.  If you use the herb form to make an infusion, it makes your kitchen smell like something died in there, and of course it gives you no way of knowing what kind of dose you are taking.  I also tried the tablet form, and found that it made me feel like hell the next day.  As always, YMMV . — Jon Guite When replying by email, please remove the trailing x from my return address

Response:

Thanks for your kind replies….. actually, it is a side-effect problem. When I started on Zoloft I was sick for over a week – not only did my anxiety increase, but I was tired at the same time, insomnia and most of all nausea.. I lost quite a bit of weight, which was nice, still I am not too keen on repeating this experience… but what you say sounds convincing, so I think I’ll try the 100 mg. Maybe it’ll work as well for me as for you… thanks again!! Sophie

Hi Sophie, You don`t have to go right to 100mgs….you could wean slowly to that dose, that is up to you though. You could go to 75mgs, or even 62.5mgs by cutting the tablet, you would stay at that dose for a week then either increase in 25mg increments, or 12.5mg increments until you reached the 100mgs. For many people a slow weaning process helps to minimize the side-effects. Alot of the side-effects you describe are normal, even the increase in anxiety, perhaps you didn`t wean to 50mgs, you just started at 50mgs? That could explain the hard time you had. Increase in anxiety can be helped by getting a script for a benzo, nausea can be helped by taking the Zoloft on a full stomach. Insomnia can be helped by taking the Zoloft in the AM. Fatigue should dissipate over time. Good luck. Jackie

Response:

I have a question about Zoloft and Valerian. I just moved, I left my boyfriend of 4 years and moved in with two roommates. They are absolutely sweet and all the changes in my life are for the better, but still I find my anxiety skyrocketing!! It is as bad a I never thought it would be… I am on 50 mg of Zoloft and I don’t really want to increase the dose (I don’t even know if it would help at all, since it works mainly against depression, not the anxiety itself, if I understand this correctly?), so I thought I’d try some Valerian to get me through the day and help me sleep. Do any of you have any information on SSRIs and Valerian? I seem to recall somebody saying one shouldn’t mix them… but on the other hand I always thought Valerian is a relatively harmless herb… some feedback would be greatly appreciated,

Hi Sophie, You have had some major life changes recently no wonder you anxiety is still skyrocketing. I am not sure about mixing Zoloft and Valerian, I would call your doctor and ask, many times herbs and meds don`t mix. I think your best bet is to increase the Zoloft, you can go as high as 200mgs, 50mgs might not be enough. Zoloft is effective for anxiety disorders as well as depression. You might be pleasantly surprised at what a increase might do for you. You could also ask your doctor for a benzo for your anxiety, many people take both a AD and a benzo. Take care. Jackie "Am I right side up or upside down? Is this real or am I dreaming?"

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Thanks for your kind replies….. actually, it is a side-effect problem. When I started on Zoloft I was sick for over a week – not only did my anxiety increase, but I was tired at the same time, insomnia and most of all nausea.. I lost quite a bit of weight, which was nice, still I am not too keen on repeating this experience… but what you say sounds convincing, so I think I’ll try the 100 mg. Maybe it’ll work as well for me as for you… thanks again!! Sophie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sophie –   Actually, unless you have a particulary side-effect problem, I would highly recommend upping your Zoloft dose…My anxiety was not affected at all at 50 mg, but at 100 mg – it is almost entirely gone!  Like night and day…And you can take up to 200 mg/day if it’s needed…   It took some time, but it was worth it…Anyway, Zoloft is recommended for panic and anxiety, so give it a try…I think you’d be better off taking one med anyway (not really sure why you don’t want to increase the dose unless it’s a side-effect thing) than mixing meds…   Hope this helps…Not sure about Valerian…I took some Kava and it helped a little, but you shouldn’t take it with Xanax (which I also started taking with the Zoloft)…Valerian was also suggested to me as far as herbs…Not sure of any interactions here…   Email me anytime if you want…You sound like you are in the same boat as me with a series of life changes leading to terrible anxiety…I am much better with 100 mg Zoloft…I think you could be too… Best, — Charles Phipps

Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

Hi all, I have a question about Zoloft and Valerian. I just moved, I left my boyfriend of 4 years and moved in with two roommates. They are absolutely sweet and all the changes in my life are for the better, but still I find my anxiety skyrocketing!! It is as bad a I never thought it would be… I am on 50 mg of Zoloft and I don’t really want to increase the dose (I don’t even know if it would help at all, since it works mainly against depression, not the anxiety itself, if I understand this correctly?), so I thought I’d try some Valerian to get me through the day and help me sleep. Do any of you have any information on SSRIs and Valerian? I seem to recall somebody saying one shouldn’t mix them… but on the other hand I always thought Valerian is a relatively harmless herb… some feedback would be greatly appreciated, Sophie Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all, I have a question about Zoloft and Valerian. I just moved, I left my boyfriend of 4 years and moved in with two roommates. They are absolutely sweet and all the changes in my life are for the better, but still I find my anxiety skyrocketing!! It is as bad a I never thought it would be… I am on 50 mg of Zoloft and I don’t really want to increase the dose (I don’t even know if it would help at all, since it works mainly against depression, not the anxiety itself, if I understand this correctly?), so I thought I’d try some Valerian to get me through the day and help me sleep. Do any of you have any information on SSRIs and Valerian? I seem to recall somebody saying one shouldn’t mix them… but on the other hand I always thought Valerian is a relatively harmless herb… some feedback would be greatly appreciated, Sophie

Sophie –   Actually, unless you have a particulary side-effect problem, I would highly recommend upping your Zoloft dose…My anxiety was not affected at all at 50 mg, but at 100 mg – it is almost entirely gone!  Like night and day…And you can take up to 200 mg/day if it’s needed…   It took some time, but it was worth it…Anyway, Zoloft is recommended for panic and anxiety, so give it a try…I think you’d be better off taking one med anyway (not really sure why you don’t want to increase the dose unless it’s a side-effect thing) than mixing meds…   Hope this helps…Not sure about Valerian…I took some Kava and it helped a little, but you shouldn’t take it with Xanax (which I also started taking with the Zoloft)…Valerian was also suggested to me as far as herbs…Not sure of any interactions here…   Email me anytime if you want…You sound like you are in the same boat as me with a series of life changes leading to terrible anxiety…I am much better with 100 mg Zoloft…I think you could be too… Best, — Charles Phipps

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Question:

Dear Brenda, Please tell me what it is about meds (Xanax in particular) that you are afraid of? Perhaps we could offer some help in that direction. I have been reading all of your posts and I am so distressed for you. I posted you awhile back about the safety of Xanax and offered some relaxation and breathing techniques. Have you tried them? I guess I just cannot understand how a medphobic can take Zoloft with all the anxiety it causes you and refuse to take Xanax which could ease or eliminate your suffering. Why do you fear Xanax so much? And I sincerely believe that it is your fear of it that increased your anxiety when you took it. Just my opinion, of course. I just cannot stand to see someone suffer when they do not have to. Worried about you, Kathryn

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WEll last night I upped my Zoloft from 12.5 to 19mg.(big deal). Woke up at 6am took .25 Xanax went back to bed for about 2 hours. Here is the question. I am med phobic and have not upped my Xanax to .50mg 3x day. Still take .25.My main symptom is constant and I do mean hyperventilation and shortness of breath. Today is day 15 on the Zoloft. Well this afternoon I decided to take .37mg of Xanax (a 25mg pill and a half). Within 10 minutes my anxiety went up. Tried to distract myself then I felt the Xanax kicking in. I get real groggy BUT THE BREATHING STILL IS SHORT.I was afraid to up my dose cux what if it doesnt help the breathing then I will feel hopeless. I am still kinda shook up and depressed and afraid.Please tell me Im doing something wrong or this is just normal for day 15 upping the dosage and being med phobic. Brenda

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Kathryn I think that my biggest fear of taking the Xanax is that it wouldnt work. Now I started off with .25. My problem is my breathing  (shortness of breath ans hyprventilation). I was hoping the Xanax would help be I really doesnt that much. It may take the edge off of the anxiety but the breathing  problem remains. Also did you read my ost where yesterday was the first day that I upped my Zoloft from 12.5 to 19mg. I will post about that later. Now another fear I battle is that I have always hated lose of control. And when I first took the Xanax I would get very groggy,symptoms still there but very groggy. I would have bad thoughts on what if I cant breathe and am too groggy to breathe. That wont happen in Jesus name but the thoughts still come. Now when I wake up at 5 or 6am and take .25mg Xanax I can go back to sleep. I dont know maybe Ill have to upped the Xanax gradually. The pdoc want me to take .50 3 times a day. Brenda

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Kathryn I think that my biggest fear of taking the Xanax is that it wouldnt work.

Brenda, it is possibly, but highly unlikely that xanax won’t work for you – Xanax can calm an elephant!  But, I guarantee that if you don’t take it, it definitely won’t do a thing. Now I started off with .25. My problem is my breathing  (shortness of breath ans hyprventilation). I was hoping the Xanax would help be I really doesnt that much. It may take the edge off of the anxiety but the breathing  problem remains.

Xanax can lessen your anxiety, but it isn’t a cure all. I suspect that your hyperventilating/shortness of breath has become ingrained to the point were its become an almost automatic response. Xanax cannot undo that, no med can. But breathing exercises like those previously mentioned by another poster should.  The bottom  line in this Brenda is that drugs aren’t magic. They can help a great deal, but you have to make an effort too.  Sorry, but if this was easy, we wouldn’t all be here. Also did you read my ost where yesterday was the first day that I upped my Zoloft from 12.5 to 19mg. I will post about that later. Now another fear I battle is that I have always hated lose of control. And when I first took the Xanax I would get very groggy,symptoms still there but very groggy. I would have bad thoughts on what if I cant breathe and am too groggy to breathe.

Okay, firstly the grogginess will diminish as your body gets used to the Xanax. Secondly, Xanax won’t stop you breathing, even if you pass out. In fact you will probably breath better. What is happening at the moment is that the conscious parts of your brain are overriding the auto settings. Left to its own devises the autonomous system would be doing a better job than you are!!   Even when knocked unconscious most people continue to breath.   The benzos are very safe drugs, even when taken in enormous overdose quantities most people just sleep them off. That wont happen in Jesus name but the thoughts still come. Now when I wake up at 5 or 6am and take .25mg Xanax I can go back to sleep. I dont know maybe Ill have to upped the Xanax gradually. The pdoc want me to take .50 3 times a day. Brenda

tackle the increase at a pace you can cope with, but be assured, the meds won’t kill you, drug companies find it cheaper to keep repeat customers rather than continually having to find new ones!!!!. Take care Ian

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One of my fears about taking my ativan is that it wont work.  When i am in the middle of a PA, I always have the comforting thought of "At least I can always take my pill".  My fear is what if i take it and it still doesnt control my attack and my racing thoughts.  My biggest fear is that I will need to go to the hopital because I will not be able to reign myself back in.  Do you ever feel that way?  D

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OMG that is the biggest fear that I have with my Xanax and alot of the time it doesnt help me that much because of the extra anxiety I have. However I suppose to be taking .50 3x a day and I only take .25 sometimes twice. But I couldnt believe somebody else has the same fear though. Brenda

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One of my fears about taking my ativan is that it wont work.  When i am in the middle of a PA, I always have the comforting thought of "At least I can always take my pill".  My fear is what if i take it and it still doesnt control my attack and my racing thoughts.  My biggest fear is that I will need to go to the hopital because I will not be able to reign myself back in.  Do you ever feel that way?  D

Although, reports of antidepressants suddenly failing to work are becoming more common, its rare for his to happen with benzodiazepines. What may happen is that you begin requiring higher doses to achieve the same levels of control. But, most with anx/pan seem to gradually take/need less, not more benzos. Ian

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Ratzenfratzen ISP lost (or did receive) about two days worth of my newsgroup messages. So I had to do a deja search to find out what I missed. <grrrr I think that my biggest fear of taking the Xanax is that it wouldnt work. Now I

It certainly will not work if you do not take it. I know if I tried only .25 I wouldn’t notice a thing. I must take from .5 to 1mg to have any relief at all. There have been days when I have taken up to 2mgs at once. started off with .25. My problem is my breathing  (shortness of breath ans hyprventilation). I was hoping the Xanax would help be I really doesnt that much. It may take the edge off of the anxiety but the breathing  problem

Have you seen a doctor to make certain that your breathing problem is definitely physical? If it is not physical, that is, one of the many symptoms of anxiety and panic then Xanax can definitely help by letting you be calmer. When you are calmer you can breathe easier. I hope you have ruled out any physical cause such as asthma, though. remains. Also did you read my ost where yesterday was the first day that I upped my Zoloft from 12.5 to 19mg. I will post about that later. Now another

I read about it. Pretty gutsy! Good work! fear I battle is that I have always hated lose of control. And when I first took the Xanax I would get very groggy,symptoms still there but very groggy. I

The grogginess passes quickly (MUCH quicker that the side effects of Zoloft!) if you continue taking it. Maybe the symptoms are still there because of your fear of the grogginess or the Xanax not working. I hate the feeling of losing control, too. Which is why I don’t drink anymore. Hardly. But grogginess is not loss of control. When you are in a high anxiety state you are way too alert, sensitive to every little thing and your mind races ahead of you. Xanax can put the brakes on all of that and the drowsiness you feel just may be your body saying to you, “Thank goodness! Now maybe we can get some rest!“ would have bad thoughts on what if I cant breathe and am too groggy to breathe. That wont happen in Jesus name but the thoughts still come. Now when I wake up

Too groggy to breathe? Impossible in anyone’s name! In fact, I can guarantee you that you will breathe BETTER when you allow yourself to sleep. I have said it before and I will say it again that our bodies function quite nicely when we give it over to the brain’s automatic control system. Better, in fact! We muck things up by over thinking. We all just think too much!  You know, the Divine Creator gave us pretty nifty bodies and will take care of them for us just fine when we give them over to sleep. For that matter, the Creator gave us Xanax through providing the plant valerian and us the intellect to use it. at 5 or 6am and take .25mg Xanax I can go back to sleep. I dont know maybe Ill have to upped the Xanax gradually. The pdoc want me to take .50 3 times a day.

Up it as you wish. But do it. I want to hear some success stories from you! BTW, I take Xanax .5 every four hours (that’s about 4 to 5 times a day) PLUS I take 1 mg of Klonopin (another benzo) at bedtime. I have the okay from my pdoc to take extra of either if I need to. Which happens, but rarely. BTW, my husband has mentioned to me that I breathe slower and deeper when I am asleep. I was very happy to hear that because I still have to work on breathing that way (the CORRECT way) when I am awake. Have you asked your hubby how your breathing is when you sleep? If not, ask! I wager he will tell you the same thing. To MissMaine7, Hi. Have you ever taken an Ativan at the onset of a PA? If so, how much? Did it not work at all, work a little, or work well? Love and blessings to all, Kathryn

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Question:

Recently, I overheard some pdocs discussing some research findings that Paxil, and to a lesser degree Zoloft, inhibits fat burning.  Anybody have any info on this?  Philip? – Valerie

Response:

Recently, I overheard some pdocs discussing some research findings that Paxil, and to a lesser degree Zoloft, inhibits fat burning.  Anybody have any info on this?  Philip? – Valerie

It is true that weight gain is associated with these meds but it doesn’t always occur with everybody. Philip

Response:

I am on Zoloft. It makes me kinda tired and also seem to have gained some weight. My problem is that I am overweight already and have high blood pressure. My blood pressure Dr wants me to loose weight and I cannot. I have to go see her in 1 week and she will give me "THE LECTURE". Of course she is thin and does not understand that loosing weight is sooo hard. Especially when I am on so many meds…Zoloft, xanax, risperdal, norvasc(for bp) and 2 other bp meds. It is so hard.

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Question:

Hi everyone, I have not posted to your group in a very long time. I have lost my support group and need your support in dealing with my GAD and life as a fellow sufferer. I have been suffering from GAD for over 3 yr. now and have been under treatment for about 1 and a half years. It’s been a long strange trip indeed Currently I am taking Prozac and Knoplin (misspelled I know) and am having moderate success. I have tried many alternative medicines and pharmaceuticals in dealing with this disease and am anxious to share with the group and get feedback. Feel free to talk to me about anything or get on my ICQ list my ICQ number is 4058408. I would love to share information. Peace, lunarchld

Response:

. Feel free to talk to me about anything or get on my ICQ list my ICQ number is 4058408. I would love to share information.

Hmmmm, never considered our ICQ numbers…….mine is 1569491….anyone else have ICQ numbers to share?? KC

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Hmmmm, never considered our ICQ numbers…….mine is 1569491….anyone else have ICQ numbers to share?? KC What are ICQ numbers? I am really dumb on this one. Yes I would like to share information anyway I can. Lol no disrespect it’s that you blew me away with this one. Warmest Regards Bonnie

Bonnie…..I’ll send you the ICQ program…..just run it while you are already online with AOL…..ICQ is just another communication form……you can see at a glance who is online, send quick messages like IM’s to people with other servers, and chat with people from other servers so you aren’t confined to AOL chat rooms.  And the sound waves are cute! Anyone wanting the little program to run ICQ, drop me your e-mail address and I’ll send the program.  I THINK it’s free…..I’ve had it about 6 months and it was when I logged on. Just send me your e-mail address and I’ll forward the program to you. KC

Response:

. Feel free to talk to me about anything or get on my ICQ list my ICQ number is 4058408. I would love to share information. Hmmmm, never considered our ICQ numbers…….mine is 1569491….anyone else have ICQ numbers to share?? KC

okay, i’m in my ICQ # is 2714295. Just be sure to put ASAP on your request this is a great idea y’all

Response:

. Feel free to talk to me about anything or get on my ICQ list my ICQ number is 4058408. I would love to share information. Hmmmm, never considered our ICQ numbers…….mine is 1569491….anyone else have ICQ numbers to share?? KC

Yeah Cindy, as a matter of fact, I have it written down, somewhere, uuuhhhmmm, where is it??? Oh yes, here it is: 3206250 I have only one problem: I don’t have a clue what I can do with this Now I only hope you don’t come to visit me at night and do spooky things…… bye, Trudy the netherlands Remove "xx" from address when replying.

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as a matter of fact, I have it written down, somewhere, uuuhhhmmm, where is it??? Oh yes, here it is: 3206250

next time you are online Trudy, find the ICQ program and run it. Then "connect"…….you CHOOSE who you want to chat to, or send instant messages to. for instance……if you are online right now reading this…..you might hear a little voice say……"incoming message"…..then you click on receive, and it could be me sending a message to you while I’m online at the same time! I could also initiate a "chat" mode with you…..where a screen comes up and we can talk back and forth in real time.  As I type my message, the letters come up on your screen!!!  And you can answer immediately too! I’m a computer flunky, and if I can figure it out, ANYONE can.  Jus tmake sure you run your program WHILE YOU ARE ALREADY ONLINE WITH YOUR ISP. I’ll add you to my list Trudy and you’ll get a system message! KC Cindy

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Spike, as others, I appreciate all the effort your putting in for me. Thank You Stephanie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jenwolf may be correct. If you think that is the case do this, off-line; reboot, go to dos, type this: netstat -anc:netstat.txt. press enter, type this: exit press enter, that gets things back to windows. Then look in windows and a file called netstat.txt will be there. (notepad) If you know about ports, check it yourself, if not mail the text to me. With your type of connection you have. I don’t think that is the case, however. Still this little thing is good to know. spike If you believe that someone else is posting to usenet and forging your return e-mail address on their posts, then you too can send a copy of the offending post (with complete headers) to their ISP (and to their NNTP-Posting-Host if they are different).  It is a violation of most ISP’s "acceptable use policy" or "terms of service" to forge someone else’s e-mail address. you might also want to check your machine for trojan horses. . .like netbus or subseven. they could be used to *easily* steal passwords and proceed to post or send email in the name of the person stolen from, *from* that person’s account(s). http://jenwolf.virtualave.net/

Response:

Jenwolf may be correct. If you think that is the case do this, off-line; reboot, go to dos, type this: netstat -anc:netstat.txt.

eh? no no no, you need to do netstat while you are *on* line. that way you can see who is connected to you or, if you’re fast enough who is sending you udp packets. as well as what ports are listening. some trojans listen on a certain port(s), which could be seen with an offline netstat, but i’ve never tried it. the easiest way, for someone who is not really in to the technicalities of networking, is to check the registry. hit the start button, then run, type in "regedit" and go to HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINESOFTWARE<MicrosoftWidowsCurrentVersionRun if there are any files there that end with exe, delete them. this will prevent the blasted thing from starting up every time you reboot. (or just exit the registry, use a virus cleaner to rid your system of them, reboot and check the registry again.) note the name of the file and then search the system for it and delete it. unfortunately there are a lot of rat trojans out there, so this may or may not work for all of them. the *best* way to be rid of the damned things is to lowlevel format the drive, most of the newer bios’ have a utility to do this, but it could be risky for certain hard drives. http://jenwolf.virtualave.net/

Response:

Some of these aliases are suspect as being one and the same person.

Half a dozen people in ASAP can vouch for La Chech. She’s one of the nicest people you’d ever want to meet. Karen – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Some of these aliases are suspect as being one and the same person.

well, let’s clear up one name…i am not the spammer.  i AM guilty of poor taste and displaying a bad temper…but since i used such poor judgement i have no doubt i am picked as a target…..  unfortunately, it took me about 5 tries with my smart buddy spike just to get the spam proof on my acct, and another 3 or 4 to get the sig line working….. the people in this ng (aar) do know me, and I would hope that even in light of my poor judgement a few might stand up to say that i did not do this aweful thing.  at least i hope so…. — If you can judge a wise man by the color of his skin,  then mister you

Question:

First day on 150 milligrams, down from 225 around a week ago.

I don’t know, RGB…just be careful cuz I personally had a horrible time withdrawing from Effexor when I got down to the very minute doses.  I don’t know if you are going off it completely or not but just a kind of FYI that the wierd, electrical fuzzy feeling didn’t start until I was to a 1/4 a tablet a day.   Nik "I want to believe"……The X-Files ICQ # 7859124

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Oh, it gets better, RGB. Just wait for the bedspins, brain shivers, and nausea. — For more information about this service, send e-mail to:

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Oh, it gets better, RGB. Just wait for the bedspins, brain shivers, and nausea.

Bedspins? My bed was thumping like in the Exorcist. And I had Florida lightning storms between my ears and throughout my body. And nausea so bad I had to live on formula. Damn stuff works so well for so many and was such poison to me. Hey, this is a clue. Effexor is an SNRI isn’t it? — bev ~~~ veb ~~~~~~ vaj ~~~ http://members.tripod.com/~Veb

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Oh, it gets better, RGB. Just wait for the bedspins, brain shivers, and nausea. Bedspins? My bed was thumping like in the Exorcist. And I had Florida lightning storms between my ears and throughout my body. And nausea so bad I had to live on formula. Damn stuff works so well for so many and was such poison to me. Hey, this is a clue. Effexor is an SNRI isn’t it?

Yes, it’s an SNRI. I dropped from 375 mg to 300 mg a couple of weeks ago.  I thought the electric stuff was gone, but it keeps coming back – right down my arms and legs.  I hate the feeling.  Is this common? The good news is…I’m much more orgasmic.  The bad news is…there’s nobody but me to provide the orgasms.  <sigh Bluebird

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 I kinda liked the electric feeling thing tho.  It’d hit me as a ZOOM thru my head.  Weird but neat. charlie

I HATED this feeling!  I get nauseous just thinking about it. It’s me glad to finally be off the stuff! — For more information about this service, send e-mail to:

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 Sexual desire *  * I like this one.

Does this mean your cute little pet is in danger? Stuck

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RGB, Wait for the delayed orgasms. I was a 45 year old woman having "wet dreams" like a 13 year old boy. This happened BOTH times I came off (and I do mean "came") off Effexor. LynnCGiff Somedays you’re the pigeon, somedays you’re the statue. Lynn from North Dakota

Response:

First day on 150 milligrams, down from 225 around a week ago.

Got off Effexor (which did nothing for me) awhile back.  My shrink did NOT prepare me for the withdrawal effects.  I had horrendous panic attacks and insomnia.  Frantic calls to the Doc. got me something (?) that calmed me down as I made the transition to Prozac.  (which also doesn’t do much for me.)  I kinda liked the electric feeling thing tho.  It’d hit me as a ZOOM thru my head.  Weird but neat. charlie

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What’s a "Brain Shiver" ?!? entropy Well, they’re hard to describe to someone who hasn’t had the experience. They’re kind of like dizziness, but not quite the same thing.  The best description I’ve heard is that it feels like your brain is loose inside your head, and when you moved your head, it rattles around.  Really, it’s a horrible feeling.

Oh my goodness, is that what it’s called? I got that when I was on both Paxil and Neurotonin, and I was in the emergency room twice for it. No one had a clue what I was talking about. Wish I had heard of this a few months ago. . .  :-p –Christine — "America’s health care system is second only to Japan… Canada, Sweeden, Great Britain, … well all of Europe. But you can thank your lucky stars we don’t live in Paraguay!"                 –Homer Simpson

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  What’s a "Brain Shiver" ?!? It’s not a technical term, just something we on asd have shared enough info about, that the phenomenon developed a name.  I doubt shrinks call ‘em "brain shivers"  In fact, most pdocs don’t seem to know anything about ‘em!! Sounds to me like a sudden burst of dizziness, and God knows I’ve had those.

For me, there’s an element of dizziness, but it’s more like a jolt of electricity that starts at the back of my head and zaps down my neck to my fingers and toes.  I hate them – but I like Effexor, so I’ve got to live with them.  The worst ones are the dizzying ones that make me feel as if I’m going to pass out.  I had one of those at the mall, and I had to hide it from my kids. Bluebird

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  What’s a "Brain Shiver" ?!? Oh my goodness, is that what it’s called? I got that when I was on both Paxil and Neurotonin, and I was in the emergency room twice for it. No one had a clue what I was talking about. Wish I had heard of this a few months ago. . .  :-p –Christine

It’s not a technical term, just something we on asd have shared enough info about, that the phenomenon developed a name.  I doubt shrinks call ‘em "brain shivers"  In fact, most pdocs don’t seem to know anything about ‘em!! — For more information about this service, send e-mail to:

Response:

When I went thru EFXR withdrawal, I had "brain shivers" too. It was like if I turned my head suddenly it would take my brain a second to catch up. Then my brain would kind of bounce around in my skull for a few seconds. Not painful but really annoying and disorienting. Not unlike that "elevator thing" but confined to my head. Lynn

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Oooh, yes, I get that when I miss my zoloft for even a day. I went to visit a friend a few weeks ago and i brought the wrong medicine bottle (I keep aspririn in the used ones), so I missed it for 3 days and on the walk home, my legs kept jerking with the brain shocks, made it very hard to walk. e

: When I went thru EFXR withdrawal, I had "brain shivers" too. : It was like if I turned my head suddenly it would take my brain a second to : catch up. Then my brain would kind of bounce around in my skull for a few : seconds. Not painful but really annoying and disorienting. Not unlike that : "elevator thing" but confined to my head. : Lynn — 101011110100010101010000101110100101010101010010100010011111101010100100001 0100         This .signature sold by weight, not by volume.       Some settling of contents may occur during shipping.

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Yuck. I missed just *2 days of 75mgs a day*, and I thought I was going to die from the withdrawl symptoms. It wouldn’t have been as bad if I hadn’t have had to go to class that day. First day on 150 milligrams, down from 225 around a week ago. I don’t know, RGB…just be careful cuz I personally had a horrible time withdrawing from Effexor when I got down to the very minute doses.  I don’t know if you are going off it completely or not but just a kind of FYI that the wierd, electrical fuzzy feeling didn’t start until I was to a 1/4 a tablet a day. Nik

–Christine — "America’s health care system is second only to Japan… Canada, Sweeden, Great Britain, … well all of Europe. But you can thank your lucky stars we don’t live in Paraguay!"                 –Homer Simpson

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 I kinda liked the electric feeling thing tho.  It’d hit me as a ZOOM thru my head.  Weird but neat. charlie I HATED this feeling!  I get nauseous just thinking about it. It’s me glad to finally be off the stuff!

hi .. first of all im battling this withdrawal thing too..i’ve gone to the end of a prescription and not refill and miss a day and it’s as if my systems shut down after that…… this BRAIN SHIVER that many refer to is a buzzing numbing sensation in the back and top of my skull….. i have definitely related the fact that excessive eye movement or quick attempts to focus cause it to FIRE… i can only imagine how REM sleep affects you… you can only regulate your eye movement so much though.. it is indeed a sickening feeling.. i am down to 50mg per day once a day… i only take the medicine the first BRAIN SHIVER of the day.. so as to hold off as long as possible til next dosage.. i am gonna wait til i can half my way to nothing.. im sick of this drug it makes me feel like a computer with corrupt RAM.. anyway.. i have also been supplimenting my diet with GINSENG, GOTU KOLA (for memory), and ST. JOHN’S WORT.. as long as im trying to get off the drug that supposedly makes me feel better, i might as well take something natural to increase those reuptake zones.  i haven’t noticed any true physical withdrawal .. only the brain feeling and the fact that that causes you to feel like shit everywhere else.. so everything is mental haywire.  the only other time in life when i’ve felt this brain shiver thing was when i was EXTREMEMLY pissed off and irate… the kind of mad you only get every blue moon.. and that buzzing sensation occurs… i remember it.  good luck everyone with your struggle. eliot

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What’s a "Brain Shiver" ?!?

A sensation that seems to localized in your brain and can feel like a anything from a shiver to a lightning storm. It can hurt. Similar sensations can occur in other parts of the nervous system. I think the physicians and scientists are baffled. or they think we’re nuts. — bev ~~~ veb ~~~~~~ vaj ~~~ http://members.tripod.com/~Veb

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What’s a "Brain Shiver" ?!? entropy

You know that feeling when you shiver that it starts in one place and goes up (or down) the rest of your body?  Well it’s kind of like that but through your head.  At least that was my experience. I completely was unprepared for the withdrawal effects of Effexor and told my doc that he should be sure to let people know what to expect before taking them off.  I would never go thru that again!! "I want to believe"……The X-Files ICQ # 7859124

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What’s a "Brain Shiver" ?!? entropy

Well, they’re hard to describe to someone who hasn’t had the experience.   They’re kind of like dizziness, but not quite the same thing.  The best description I’ve heard is that it feels like your brain is loose inside your head, and when you moved your head, it rattles around.  Really, it’s a horrible feeling.   — For more information about this service, send e-mail to:

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What’s a "Brain Shiver" ?!? entropy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Oh, it gets better, RGB. Just wait for the bedspins, brain shivers, and nausea. — For more information about this service, send e-mail to:

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Yes, it’s an SNRI.

Norepinephrine then, I had trouble with too much of that maybe. I dropped from 375 mg to 300 mg a couple of weeks ago.  I thought the electric stuff was gone, but it keeps coming back – right down my arms and legs.  I hate the feeling.  Is this common?

No, just extremely disturbing. Effexor is actually one of the drugs with low incidence of side effects – few people getting them. I only personally know three people who’ve taken it. The other two had no problem at all, stuff worked fine, one even quit cold-turkey. I went through hell. The good news is…I’m much more orgasmic.  The bad news is…there’s nobody but me to provide the orgasms.  <sigh

Oh well. — bev ~~~ veb ~~~~~~ vaj ~~~ http://members.tripod.com/~Veb

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Question:

Anyone have good ways of dealing with sexual dysfunction as a side effect from meds? Thanks, Rick Wagner You haven’t mentioned the meds you are on.  If youwant an informed answer please provide adequate information. Roy 46, still bipolar, and tried EVERY med you ever even heard of.

Presently on Depakote and Effexor. Didn’t mention particular med because so many seem to have this effect. I know I had the problem on at least Paxil and Triavil in combo with various others. Rick

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Roy 46, still bipolar, and tried EVERY med you ever even heard of.

Um, two things:   How about carbamide peroxide? (No fair looking in your Merck or PDR.)   Roy, you wrote a rather contradictory signature in another recent message.   You wrote "still bipolar, but getting very depressed" — the "but" implies   that you somehow make a distinction between depression and one of the   poles that make up "bipolar".  Now, this distinction might make no   difference whatsoever to you, however if you replace "but" with "and",   well, I reckon you know what is most effective for you. Zoz

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone have good ways of dealing with sexual dysfunction as a side effect from meds? Thanks, Rick Wagner Rick: I had the same problem on anti-depressants such as Prozac,Effexor, Zolloft etc. I switched to Serzone and found that the problem is nearly non-existent( after 2 years of dysfunction I do believe that I have some residual psychologcal dysfunction at times). Also the nurses at my PDoc’s office said that there is a drug to help this…ask your Doc. Good Luck Joe I was like both of you,sexual dysfunction,my doc put me on Wellbutrin and  no more dysfunction!….Bill

Wellbutrin, effexor and zoloft increased my sexual feelings greatly. Unfortunately they made me cycle about every hour! Too bad! julie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone have good ways of dealing with sexual dysfunction as a side effect from meds? Thanks, Rick Wagner I was like both of you,sexual dysfunction,my doc put me on Wellbutrin and  no more dysfunction!….Bill Wellbutrin, effexor and zoloft increased my sexual feelings greatly. Unfortunately they made me cycle about every hour! Too bad! julie

Wellbutrin kicked my sex drive into overdrive, too – my husband loves it! I also heard recently that a new drug, Wellbutrin SR, is being submitted to the FDA for approval. It is not supposed to have the sexual side effects that Wellbutrin has. My question is, why would anyone want to take it? But seriously, has anyone out there ever experienced _adverse_ sexual side effects on Wellbutrin? nancy

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Nancy, I too have had very positive reaction on Wellbutrin. I had been on a "sexual desert" with Effexor and Zoloft. Effexor stopped my monthly cycle for the 5 months that I took it also…. Good Luck,  Sally – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – says… Anyone have good ways of dealing with sexual dysfunction as a side effect from meds? Thanks, Rick Wagner I was like both of you,sexual dysfunction,my doc put me on Wellbutrin and  no more dysfunction!….Bill Wellbutrin, effexor and zoloft increased my sexual feelings greatly. Unfortunately they made me cycle about every hour! Too bad! julie Wellbutrin kicked my sex drive into overdrive, too – my husband loves it! I also heard recently that a new drug, Wellbutrin SR, is being submitted to the FDA for approval. It is not supposed to have the sexual side effects that Wellbutrin has. My question is, why would anyone want to take it? But seriously, has anyone out there ever experienced _adverse_ sexual side effects on Wellbutrin? nancy

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone have good ways of dealing with sexual dysfunction as a side effect from meds? Thanks, Rick Wagner Rick: I had the same problem on anti-depressants such as Prozac,Effexor, Zolloft etc. I switched to Serzone and found that the problem is nearly non-existent( after 2 years of dysfunction I do believe that I have some residual psychologcal dysfunction at times). Also the nurses at my PDoc’s office said that there is a drug to help this…ask your Doc. Good Luck Joe

I was like both of you,sexual dysfunction,my doc put me on Wellbutrin and  no more dysfunction!….Bill

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Anyone have good ways of dealing with sexual dysfunction as a side effect from meds? Several of our standard meds cause various problems. Between my wife’s meds and mine, we have managed to (sort of) have sex twice in the past year. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks, Rick Wagner

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Anyone have good ways of dealing with sexual dysfunction as a side effect from meds? Thanks, Rick Wagner

Rick: I had the same problem on anti-depressants such as Prozac,Effexor, Zolloft etc. I switched to Serzone and found that the problem is nearly non-existent( after 2 years of dysfunction I do believe that I have some residual psychologcal dysfunction at times). Also the nurses at my PDoc’s office said that there is a drug to help this…ask your Doc. Good Luck Joe

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Question:

All of you seem to have such encourement for those afflicted with this condition.  I know I have felt a lot of support reading the postings.  My husband is going through a very difficult time at the moment.  We have had 2 very emotional days, and usually this is a very strong man.  A month ago he had a heart attack and had angioplasty.  Not that the spasmodic torticollis isn’t bad enough, now he is worried about his heart also even though the cardiologist says there is no relation (I certainly question that with all the stress he has been under for the past 18 months).  He seems to be giving up telling me he can’t fight this thing anymore.  He take Baclofen and Artane and of course gets Botox every three months.  The Botox has not taken the pain away but it has allowed his head to remain in an upright position.  He suffers every waking moment with spasms and we have yet to find the right combination to relieve the pain.  Do any of you have any words of encouragement I can pass on to him.  Some of you have suffered with this for many, many years and seem to have found a way to deal with it even through you are in pain and my heart expecially goes out to the children who have to suffer with this.  Would love to hear from you and I will print the messages out and read to him as he cannot sit at the computer.  BethThanks to all of you. Virginia

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writes: He seems to be giving up telling me he can’t fight this thing anymore.  He take Baclofen and Artane and of course gets Botox every three months. The Botox has not taken the pain away but it has allowed his head to remain in an upright position.  He suffers every waking moment with spasms and we have yet to find the right combination to relieve the pain.  Do any of you have any words of encouragement I can pass on to him.  Some of you have suffered with this for many, many years and seem to have found a way to deal with it even through you are in pain and my heart expecially goes out to the children who have to suffer with this.  

I wish I could think of the right thing to say…its so hard.  I feel so bad for what you and your husband are going through.  Cant they admit him for awhile, like they did Jeremy, break the cycle and try other meds until something works?  I know what you must be going through, its so hard to watch someone you love suffer and feel so helpless.  My son has suffered for his whole 13 years of life and he often asked why I kept trying so hard to find a diagnosis and remedy….he had adjusted to it as a part of his life.  (Children adjust so much better than us adults!)  I told him that I would never give up and he was finally diagnosed about 7 months ago…..after 13 years of mis-diagnosis.  He is going through all the trials of medication and I think we have hit on a good combo now, but who knows how long it will last.   He encourages me more than I do him!  He always says *it will pass, dont worry, I’m fine*….as I bite off all my fingernails.   Since I dont know what to say….I asked for Jeremys input.  He found it hard to come up with something concrete except to say that he will pray for him, not to give up….that there is a light at the end of the tunnel sometimes, if God thought it was his time to go….he would, that he will get his reward in heaven for the suffering he has done on earth (I taught him that years ago….hes hoping heaven has alot of Super Nintendo games…you know kids) and that he has a family that loves him very much. I wish I could do better than this, but I am new at the dystonia diagnosis so I dont know exactly what can be done to find the relief he needs.  I am sure that  the more expercienced people on this newsgroup will have much better responses for you.  I just wanted you and your husband to know that we are praying for you and wishing you better days. Love, Cyndie and Jeremy

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writes: This may be a start in bombarding the networks.  

Lets do it!  And thanks for the info! Cyndie

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I finally found some addresses which I will pass along to all of you. NBC is Http://TVnet.com/tv/NYtv/wNBC.html – FAX 212-456-2290 CBS fax is, 212-975-5656 (did not locate an email address) I found a Donahue but not sure if this is Phil, it was just listed by last start in bombarding the networks.  

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Mary Beth you are wonderful!  You speak from your heart and since you have dealt with this condition for such a long time you can understand what he is going through.  I have mentioned you to Doug several times especially reinterating how long you have suffered with this, have raised a family, and, have such a terrific outlook on life.  This is a terrifying time for both of us, I try to give support and guess I am too much of an optimist. I always feel today isn’t so good, but tomorrow will be better.  Thank you for mentioning the depression after surgery, this may be what is hitting him now.  We have been the "I think I’m going crazy" route but that was due to medication which has now been corrected and he is back to normal. We do have to be careful what is prescribed because he takes so many other meds for his dystonia and the 2 doctors are not in the same group, or same city so I am the intermediary trying to make sure he is not taking drugs that will contridict each other.  I will speak with him regarding the possibility of a phone conversation I know if he could sit at this computer and read the messages posted he would find much support from all.  Thanks again for your concern, support, and very good advice. Fondly, Virginia

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Mary Beth you are wonderful!  You speak from your heart and since you have dealt with this condition for such a long time you can understand what he is going through.  I have mentioned you to Doug several times especially reinterating how long you have suffered with this, have raised a family, and, have such a terrific outlook on life.  This is a terrifying time for both of us, I try to give support and guess I am too much of an optimist. I always feel today isn’t so good, but tomorrow will be better.  Thank you for mentioning the depression after surgery, this may be what is hitting him now.  We have been the "I think I’m going crazy" route but that was due to medication which has now been corrected and he is back to normal. We do have to be careful what is prescribed because he takes so many other meds for his dystonia and the 2 doctors are not in the same group, or same city so I am the intermediary trying to make sure he is not taking drugs that will contridict each other.  I will speak with him regarding the possibility of a phone conversation I know if he could sit at this computer and read the messages posted he would find much support from all. Thanks again for your concern, support, and very good advice. Fondly, Virginia

Hi Virginia: I have ST with accompanying essential tremor, I also have panic disorder which causes depression at times for me.  Panic disorder can do a really good job of convincing you that you must be going crazy.  Tell Doug that it’s only the brightest, most brilliant minds that suffer from this kind of depression…….look at me!  <VBG  Having surgery can really knock you down hard, especially if you have other medical conditions that have to be treated properly at the same time.  I hope Doug is well on the way to recovery.  The depression will go, that I know.  No way is he going crazy.  There *will* be a cure for dystonia very soon – I’m convinced of that.  Give him a big hug from me and tell him I’m thinking of  both of you. All the best. Mally  

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Cyndie and Jeremy, Your touching note brought tears to my eyes and I want to thank you for your prayers.  I have pursued this horrible affliction much the same as you but of course not nearly as long.  I have searched for the very best medical Dr.s available and in the beginning, we he wasn’t as bad and was much stronger we would have gone anywhere to get the proper treatment, at least one that would give him relief.  We were lucky in a sense that the first neurologist we saw was familiar with dystonia and put him in touch with a doctor that was a researcher in the field and gave the botox injections.  He has not had any trouble with the blepharospasms after having 4 treatments which was back in October of 1994.  We were so hoping that the Botox would have the same affect on the torticollis, but so far it hasn’t, but we will keep trying.  We live in the Los Angeles area and there are many very fine centers and wonderful doctors here and believe me we have tried them all.  We have even been to the Mayo Clinic in Scottsdale, AZ.  All the doctors we have seen are knowledgable, but they need to come up with the right combination of meds.  My very best to you and many, many kudos to your valiant son. Virginia

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