Question:

Hi Gang,      Seeking help for clostraphobia/anxiety. I really dont know which one it is. This condition most certainly affects my fuction in my job and I can use all the help I can get.      When I wore a younger mans clothes, I had no anxiety and no clostraphobia.  I have crawled through 2500 degree heat,pulling a hose and wearing 75lbs of extra gear.  I have noticed that on odd occasions I find it hard to even be inside the glass cube of a stand up shower.     It doesnt happen all the time, but I fear it will happen at the wrong time and it will get either the person I am with or myself killed.     I think its anxiety related because I can be asleep dreaming of people in my past who I have either bonded with and/or I have lost contact with and I get a very sad feeling then it jumps into clostraphobia, so bad that I even feel trapped in my own bedroom and have to exit the room to gain relief.  Sometimes it is so bad that I have to exit the entire house to get relief.   I never use to be this way, I have been trapped by fallen debris in a fire and had to be dug out and never had any clostraphobia until the past few years.     I feel I am a liability and intentionally try to place myself on the exterior either pumping the engine or doing some other exterior fireground work.    Is it my advancing years? What would place a phobia like that where there never existed one before?    I have been thinking about talking with my gp about it and see if zoloft,xanax or something would be a road to peace for me.   Please help.  Has anyone else ever had these types of feelings? If so, how do I deal with it?                 Thanks in advance for sharing                     your thoughts.                     Jay

Response:

Jay, you would be very wise to talk with a psychiatry professional about this – it’s not uncommon for people to have thoughts like this and it’s really not about their age, it can happen any time.  There is some research that elderly people can have some compromises in their serotonin system, but I’m assuming if you are a firefighter you are not "elderly".  Unfortunately anxiety disorder situations, just like many other illnesses, do not discriminate and can mess with anybody.  Based on what you said, it definitely sounds like it is an anxiety thing.  It is very manageable as long as you keep an open mind and talk openly with treatment people about what you’re thinking.  People who initially talk with mental health professionals very often do not want to disclose things for fear of being judged or any number of other esoteric reasons, but it is SO counterproductive to do that – tell the person what is on your mind if you get a sense that they’re safe to talk to.  If you don’t get that sense, politely get through the interview and find another one; remember you are creating a relationship with another person by involving yourself with a psych dr. or a therapist so if the "fit" isn’t right, it’s ok, they know this happens all the time.  A GP treatment scenario is often well-intentioned but that person just doesn’t have the experience in dealing with the many subtle aspects of these types of problems that a psych specialist would. Gary – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Gang,     Seeking help for clostraphobia/anxiety. I really dont know which one it is. This condition most certainly affects my fuction in my job and I can use all the help I can get.     When I wore a younger mans clothes, I had no anxiety and no clostraphobia.  I have crawled through 2500 degree heat,pulling a hose and wearing 75lbs of extra gear.  I have noticed that on odd occasions I find it hard to even be inside the glass cube of a stand up shower.    It doesnt happen all the time, but I fear it will happen at the wrong time and it will get either the person I am with or myself killed.    I think its anxiety related because I can be asleep dreaming of people in my past who I have either bonded with and/or I have lost contact with and I get a very sad feeling then it jumps into clostraphobia, so bad that I even feel trapped in my own bedroom and have to exit the room to gain relief.  Sometimes it is so bad that I have to exit the entire house to get relief.  I never use to be this way, I have been trapped by fallen debris in a fire and had to be dug out and never had any clostraphobia until the past few years.    I feel I am a liability and intentionally try to place myself on the exterior either pumping the engine or doing some other exterior fireground work.   Is it my advancing years? What would place a phobia like that where there never existed one before?   I have been thinking about talking with my gp about it and see if zoloft,xanax or something would be a road to peace for me.  Please help.  Has anyone else ever had these types of feelings? If so, how do I deal with it?                Thanks in advance for sharing                    your thoughts.                    Jay

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Gang,      Seeking help for clostraphobia/anxiety. I really dont know which one it is. This condition most certainly affects my fuction in my job and I can use all the help I can get.      When I wore a younger mans clothes, I had no anxiety and no clostraphobia.  I have crawled through 2500 degree heat,pulling a hose and wearing 75lbs of extra gear.  I have noticed that on odd occasions I find it hard to even be inside the glass cube of a stand up shower.     It doesnt happen all the time, but I fear it will happen at the wrong time and it will get either the person I am with or myself killed.     I think its anxiety related because I can be asleep dreaming of people in my past who I have either bonded with and/or I have lost contact with and I get a very sad feeling then it jumps into clostraphobia, so bad that I even feel trapped in my own bedroom and have to exit the room to gain relief.  Sometimes it is so bad that I have to exit the entire house to get relief.   I never use to be this way, I have been trapped by fallen debris in a fire and had to be dug out and never had any clostraphobia until the past few years.     I feel I am a liability and intentionally try to place myself on the exterior either pumping the engine or doing some other exterior fireground work.    Is it my advancing years? What would place a phobia like that where there never existed one before?    I have been thinking about talking with my gp about it and see if zoloft,xanax or something would be a road to peace for me.   Please help.  Has anyone else ever had these types of feelings? If so, how do I deal with it?                 Thanks in advance for sharing                     your thoughts.                     Jay

Jay, it would be easy to say that you’ve just developed a stronger sense of danger as you’ve aged, but based on personal experience, age has nothing to do with it. I often had to put myself in very confined spaces for extended periods and had no problem doing it for many years. Until one day when i was trapped in a small room with one of the tradesmen. I began to feel uneasy and it quickly accelerated into panic. The carpenter HATED small places and was damn near losing it himself. Although we were in no danger and i knew we’d laugh about it later, i couldn’t control the frightened feeling.   That, out of my control confinement, was dreadful and having no idea where it came from was puzzling. One of my close friends is a psychiatrist, so i asked him what might be up. He wasn’t much help.    He offered drugs to control the anxiety, but couldn’t give a reason for the late / sudden development of the condition. I suspected fatigue, dehydration or low blood sugar. He agreed it could be any of those that had affected my brain chemistry, but still couldn’t explain the sudden onset or extreme nature of the sensation. Should you be able to find a therapist who can give you a good explanation, they may also be able to suggest treatment. Let us know please.    For now, i just stay out of tight places. Ma

Response:

Hello Jay, – I was turned down for submarine duty in the Navy because it was felt that I may be phobic of enclosed places (sub-sailors are tested for this). Were it me, I would explain this to the fire chief an see what he advises. You have specific rights regarding such issues under the ADA and it may be felt you need to be assigned to specific work or, – medical retirement, depending on the cirsumstances. – K – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Gang,      Seeking help for clostraphobia/anxiety. I really dont know which one it is. This condition most certainly affects my fuction in my job and I can use all the help I can get.      When I wore a younger mans clothes, I had no anxiety and no clostraphobia.  I have crawled through 2500 degree heat,pulling a hose and wearing 75lbs of extra gear.  I have noticed that on odd occasions I find it hard to even be inside the glass cube of a stand up shower.     It doesnt happen all the time, but I fear it will happen at the wrong time and it will get either the person I am with or myself killed.     I think its anxiety related because I can be asleep dreaming of people in my past who I have either bonded with and/or I have lost contact with and I get a very sad feeling then it jumps into clostraphobia, so bad that I even feel trapped in my own bedroom and have to exit the room to gain relief.  Sometimes it is so bad that I have to exit the entire house to get relief.   I never use to be this way, I have been trapped by fallen debris in a fire and had to be dug out and never had any clostraphobia until the past few years.     I feel I am a liability and intentionally try to place myself on the exterior either pumping the engine or doing some other exterior fireground work.    Is it my advancing years? What would place a phobia like that where there never existed one before?    I have been thinking about talking with my gp about it and see if zoloft,xanax or something would be a road to peace for me.   Please help.  Has anyone else ever had these types of feelings? If so, how do I deal with it?                 Thanks in advance for sharing                     your thoughts.                     Jay

Response:

That is a very interesting and useful thing to know, which I had never considered – the ADA.  I think I need to take a good close look at that and will do so.  Appreciate your bringing that up. Gary

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello Jay, – I was turned down for submarine duty in the Navy because it was felt that I may be phobic of enclosed places (sub-sailors are tested for this). Were it me, I would explain this to the fire chief an see what he advises. You have specific rights regarding such issues under the ADA and it may be felt you need to be assigned to specific work or, – medical retirement, depending on the cirsumstances. – K Hi Gang,      Seeking help for clostraphobia/anxiety. I really dont know which one it is. This condition most certainly affects my fuction in my job and I can use all the help I can get.      When I wore a younger mans clothes, I had no anxiety and no clostraphobia.  I have crawled through 2500 degree heat,pulling a hose and wearing 75lbs of extra gear.  I have noticed that on odd occasions I find it hard to even be inside the glass cube of a stand up shower.     It doesnt happen all the time, but I fear it will happen at the wrong time and it will get either the person I am with or myself killed.     I think its anxiety related because I can be asleep dreaming of people in my past who I have either bonded with and/or I have lost contact with and I get a very sad feeling then it jumps into clostraphobia, so bad that I even feel trapped in my own bedroom and have to exit the room to gain relief.  Sometimes it is so bad that I have to exit the entire house to get relief.   I never use to be this way, I have been trapped by fallen debris in a fire and had to be dug out and never had any clostraphobia until the past few years.     I feel I am a liability and intentionally try to place myself on the exterior either pumping the engine or doing some other exterior fireground work.    Is it my advancing years? What would place a phobia like that where there never existed one before?    I have been thinking about talking with my gp about it and see if zoloft,xanax or something would be a road to peace for me.   Please help.  Has anyone else ever had these types of feelings? If so, how do I deal with it?                 Thanks in advance for sharing                     your thoughts.                     Jay

Response:

Question:

I’m having a root canal done on Friday. I’m going to a dentist that I’ve never seen before and I don’t know the name of the novacaine that doesn’t accelerate the heart. ‘Lil help? Peace, John — The charter is available at:

Question:

I just started to take 75 mg effexor xr, since the prozac i use to take, wasn’t working very well anymore.  How is this anti-depressant like?  Is it better than the older SSRIs?  Sometimes I feel strange while I am on it. Does this go away with time?  Are there more or less sexual side effects with this one compared to SSRIS like prozac and zoloft? Thanks for any help

Response:

I just started to take 75 mg effexor xr, since the prozac i use to take, wasn’t working very well anymore.  How is this anti-depressant like?  Is it better than the older SSRIs?  Sometimes I feel strange while I am on it. Does this go away with time?  Are there more or less sexual side effects with this one compared to SSRIS like prozac and zoloft? Thanks for any help

I am now on 150 mg of Effexor, but it is only temporary. I have been on 75 mg since a couple of years ago, and there is no side effect which gives me problems. I am also on Risperdal, and recently my pdoc changed it for Zyprexa and I noted an increase of my sexual libido, so I am not sure if Effexor is lowering my libido. What I can say is that when I was married I didn’t find I needed more sexual drive than I actually had. If you find any annoying side effects from Effexor, most surely they’ll disappear in something like a week. — Teilhard Knight The Extraterrestrial Eat the sandwich to email    http://www.newsfeed.com       The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–= Over 100,000 Newsgroups – Unlimited Fast Downloads – 19 Servers =—–

Response:

I just started to take 75 mg effexor xr, since the prozac i use to take, wasn’t working very well anymore.  How is this anti-depressant like?  Is it better than the older SSRIs?  Sometimes I feel strange while I am on it. Does this go away with time?  Are there more or less sexual side effects with this one compared to SSRIS like prozac and zoloft? Thanks for any help

Hi Keith.  I deal with a difficult to treat depression and after trying several ADs I tried Prozac and found it helped me quite a bit for nearly two years.  At least until I got hit with the infamous "Prozac poop-out".  Maybe that is what hit you as well?  Anyway, when it stopped working and sent me into one of the worst depressions I can remember my pdoc put me on Effexor XR.  After building up to 150mg over a couple of weeks I actually started feeling better.  I continued to improve and was beginning to think this may be a miracle med for me.  It helped my depression much like Prozac had at first but seemed to somehow be ’smoother’ in the way it pulled me out of depression without some of the side effects I sometimes had on Prozac.  That is until I started feeling not so good physically but I wasn’t sure what was wrong.  I eventually had my blood pressure checked and found that it was way too high. (like 180/205)  I ended up back at the pdocs and also seeing my regular medical doctor.  I had read that Effexor could raise blood pressure in some people.  Guess I’m one of the lucky ones.  To be fair I had previously had some minor blood pressure problems that had been treated and corrected.  I also have a family history of blood pressure/heart problems. I had told my pdoc about this but he said the chances of this causing me such problems were slim.  I am not trying to scare you about Effexor because I think it is a great med and I wish I could stay with it.  But I did want to let you know to at least be aware of this possibility and if you are not sure have your blood pressure checked once in awhile.  As far as treating depression goes, this helped me a lot with very few other side effects. Good luck and I hope it helps you as much as it helped me only without the blood pressure problem! Bonnie

Response:

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Lines: 5 NNTP-Posting-Host: 1cust250.tnt2.cleveland3.oh.da.uu.net (67.211.27.250) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 1012549143 41704991 67.211.27.250 (16 [33645]) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en Xref: uni-berlin.de alt.support.depression.manic:194315 x-no-archive: yes I take 400mg of Lamictal daily and 3600mg of Neurontin, along with 8mg daily of Klonopin and 200mg Wellbutrin SR.

Response:

hi i was wondering what dosages some people were taking for lamotragine and gabapentin… esp. those who have had to go to the high end of the useful range …. also any info on how to discover one’s therapeutic dosage would be greatly appreciated

 4800 mg of Neurontin have been RX for some people. Therpeuric dose is subjective based on your response. Peace, Lynda

Response:

My drug list says you can go to 3200 mg of Neurontin.  I take 1600. I don’t know about Lamictal because I was afraid to take it after they told me about Stephens-Johnson syndrome.  Look it up on the Internet. — Val in Boise

Response:

I am currently at 1500 mg a day of neurontin and I will soon be going up to 1800 mg.   For now I will level off at that point and see how I do.  Do any of you on neurontin find that it makes you sleepy and if so how do you deal with this?  (when you can not sleep such as at work)  I seem to do better when I keep my doses evenly spaced throughout the day however my pdoc says I could take it all at once at bedtime if it made me too sleepy.  This seems like a lot to take at once to me. Bonnie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – hi i was wondering what dosages some people were taking for lamotragine and gabapentin… esp. those who have had to go to the high end of the useful range …. also any info on how to discover one’s therapeutic dosage would be greatly appreciated thanks cybercafe

Response:

hello – I space mine out during the day… 6 a.m., 1 p.m., 8 p.m., but I am never tired….maybe it is the Effexor I am also taking. — regards, Compucat

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am currently at 1500 mg a day of neurontin and I will soon be going up to 1800 mg.   For now I will level off at that point and see how I do.  Do any of you on neurontin find that it makes you sleepy and if so how do you deal with this?  (when you can not sleep such as at work)  I seem to do better when I keep my doses evenly spaced throughout the day however my pdoc says I could take it all at once at bedtime if it made me too sleepy.  This seems like a lot to take at once to me. Bonnie hi i was wondering what dosages some people were taking for lamotragine and gabapentin… esp. those who have had to go to the high end of the useful range …. also any info on how to discover one’s therapeutic dosage would be greatly appreciated thanks cybercafe

Response:

Hi Compucat, I seem to do better when I space mine similar to that as well.  I have noticed that I get particularly sleepy if I don’t keep moving or stay busy in some manner.  How is the Effexor working for depression for you?  That is one that has been recommended to me that I have not yet tried. Bonnie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – hello – I space mine out during the day… 6 a.m., 1 p.m., 8 p.m., but I am never tired….maybe it is the Effexor I am also taking. — regards, Compucat I am currently at 1500 mg a day of neurontin and I will soon be going up to 1800 mg.   For now I will level off at that point and see how I do.  Do any of you on neurontin find that it makes you sleepy and if so how do you deal with this?  (when you can not sleep such as at work)  I seem to do better when I keep my doses evenly spaced throughout the day however my pdoc says I could take it all at once at bedtime if it made me too sleepy.  This seems like a lot to take at once to me. Bonnie hi i was wondering what dosages some people were taking for lamotragine and gabapentin… esp. those who have had to go to the high end of the useful range …. also any info on how to discover one’s therapeutic dosage would be greatly appreciated thanks cybercafe

Response:

heh… the reason i have had the good fortune to find myself back among you charming sirs and madams is because i recently lost my job due to drowsiness… or… falling asleep at work….  thing is, i can’t tell if it was more due to the Valporate or the Effexor … any ideas ? i found that both of them made me drowsy at one time.. though that my have been when i first started i *need* to figure out which med is the culprit so i can stop taking it, but i just can’t tell… i mean when i am out of work, running around, doing my own thing, i am fine …. ug… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Compucat, I seem to do better when I space mine similar to that as well.  I have noticed that I get particularly sleepy if I don’t keep moving or stay busy in some manner.  How is the Effexor working for depression for you?  That is one that has been recommended to me that I have not yet tried. Bonnie hello – I space mine out during the day… 6 a.m., 1 p.m., 8 p.m., but I am never tired….maybe it is the Effexor I am also taking. — regards, Compucat I am currently at 1500 mg a day of neurontin and I will soon be going up  to 1800 mg.   For now I will level off at that point and see how I do.  Do  any of you on neurontin find that it makes you sleepy and if so how do you  deal with this?  (when you can not sleep such as at work)  I seem to do  better when I keep my doses evenly spaced throughout the day however my pdoc  says  I could take it all at once at bedtime if it made me too sleepy.  This  seems like a lot to take at once to me. Bonnie hi i was wondering what dosages some people were taking for lamotragine and gabapentin… esp. those who have had to go to the high end of the useful range …. also any info on how to discover one’s therapeutic dosage would be greatly appreciated

Response:

hi i was wondering what dosages some people were taking for lamotragine and gabapentin… esp. those who have had to go to the high end of the useful range …. also any info on how to discover one’s therapeutic dosage would be greatly appreciated thanks cybercafe

Response:

hi… I am taking 2400 mg. of Gabapentin along with 187.5 mg. of Effexor. – regards, Compucat

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – hi i was wondering what dosages some people were taking for lamotragine and gabapentin… esp. those who have had to go to the high end of the useful range …. also any info on how to discover one’s therapeutic dosage would be greatly appreciated thanks cybercafe

Response:

hi Bonnie.. I was visiting my pdoc today after having 2 crashes last week and really high anxiety that has resulted in no sleep of any consequence for almost a month. So for now, I will be taking 75 mg. of Effexor in the a.m. and 75 mg. again at noon. That is a slight drop in my total for the day by 37.5 mg. as we try to find where the best dose is for me.We may have gone a touch high on the Effexor. My Gabapentin dose will stay the same – 2400 mg. a day, this time only split up twice. The depression has lifted, I can feel that, but I am not out of the woodwork. That said, my body/mind has always proved to be rather treatment resistant. It has been about a month and a half on this combination of drugs. I really feel they are my answer and I want to work to get the right balance for me. I  previously took Prozac for 10 years – no side effects – then gradually had to start increasing the dose up to 60 mg. a day, and then it just died on me. I have been having some side effects, but are they Effexor side effects or Gabapentin side effects or both?: – cannot sleep – extremely decreased appetite – jittery – blurred/double vision (this is gone now) – tremors (they feel like little electrical jolts Bonnie, please remember that you may have some of these or none at all. Remember, we were not all made at the Chrysler plant in Detroit on Monday morning. We all will react differently. Look at my 10 years with Prozac – we are talking no side effects at all. It was a delight for me. Maybe that will be you with Effexor. Do some reading about it on the web medical sights and see if you feel comfortable with considering it. I am hearing very good things about it and good successes. hugs, — regards, Compucat

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Compucat, I seem to do better when I space mine similar to that as well.  I have noticed that I get particularly sleepy if I don’t keep moving or stay busy in some manner.  How is the Effexor working for depression for you?  That is one that has been recommended to me that I have not yet tried. Bonnie hello – I space mine out during the day… 6 a.m., 1 p.m., 8 p.m., but I am never tired….maybe it is the Effexor I am also taking. — regards, Compucat I am currently at 1500 mg a day of neurontin and I will soon be going up to 1800 mg.   For now I will level off at that point and see how I do. Do any of you on neurontin find that it makes you sleepy and if so how do you deal with this?  (when you can not sleep such as at work)  I seem to do better when I keep my doses evenly spaced throughout the day however my pdoc says I could take it all at once at bedtime if it made me too sleepy.  This seems like a lot to take at once to me. Bonnie hi i was wondering what dosages some people were taking for lamotragine and gabapentin… esp. those who have had to go to the high end of the useful range …. also any info on how to discover one’s therapeutic dosage would be greatly appreciated thanks cybercafe

Response:

Question:

hi key, that happened for me on effexor and every other a-d  i tried including aurorix, celexor, tofranil and luvox. my doc said the effects would wear off over time- but they didn’t. it took great perseverance to get it up, let alone climax. naturally, being a guy, this is hard to take. I was going to say ‘hard to swallow’, but I’m trying to be serious here…. normal sexual response returns within weeks of giving up the a-d. at least it has for me. Erm, Wellbutrin is an a-d that’s known to have a positive effect on sex drive so, if you’re somewhere in the world where its available (its not available in Australia – dang!)  you could ask your pdoc to swap you over. hope this helps… rossco (aka brother john) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m experiencing loss of sex drive and inability to reach orgasm on 150mg Effexor XR/day.  Has anyone had a similar experience and noticed a reduction of these side effects?  Basically, will I get my sex drive back? key Before you buy.

Response:

Key, I’m on 150mg Effexor a day also.  I’ve been on it for a few months.  I have the same problem.  It’s faded a little, but it still takes a long long time to reach orgasm.  I don’t know though, I think it’s different for everyone.   Jen(I know this didn’t help much) I’m experiencing loss of sex drive and inability to reach orgasm on 150mg Effexor XR/day.  Has anyone had a similar experience and noticed a reduction of these side effects?  Basically, will I get my sex drive back? key

And there was much rejoicing,     yaaaaaaaayyyyyyy. "My head won’t leave my head alone" -Dave Matthews band

Response:

Hi key… It’s the same thing with Paxil… I don’t know how reduce side effect. Aline – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m experiencing loss of sex drive and inability to reach orgasm on 150mg Effexor XR/day.  Has anyone had a similar experience and noticed a reduction of these side effects?  Basically, will I get my sex drive back? key Before you buy.

Response:

I’m experiencing loss of sex drive and inability to reach orgasm on 150mg Effexor XR/day.  Has anyone had a similar experience and noticed a reduction of these side effects?  Basically, will I get my sex drive back? key Before you buy.

Response:

     The side effects I experienced were similar to the ones experienced on 20 mg of Paxil.  I am now taking 225mg of Effexor XR.  I am experiencing delayed ejaculation, it now takes about 20 minuets.  As opposed to the usual 5 to 10 minuets unmedicated. I left off reading newspapers once i got my journalism degree and realized HOW THEY WERE PRODUCED, and by WHAT sort of … life form.                                             – Ron Zucchini

Response:

I’m experiencing loss of sex drive and inability to reach orgasm on 150mg Effexor XR/day.  Has anyone had a similar experience and noticed a reduction of these side effects?  Basically, will I get my sex drive back? key

No sex drive and inability to reach orgasm.  I had the same side effects. After several months these side effects hadn’t gone away, so my pdoc added Wellbutrin.  Much, much better now.  :-)

Response:

Classic Effexor side effect. In some people the sex drive comes back. I don’t think the anorgasmia (is that what they call it?) goes away, if it’s one of the side effects for you, until you’re off Effexor. Then everything will be back the way it was before. Let the doc who prescribed it for you know if it’s a big issue for you. Take care. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m experiencing loss of sex drive and inability to reach orgasm on 150mg Effexor XR/day.  Has anyone had a similar experience and noticed a reduction of these side effects?  Basically, will I get my sex drive back? key Before you buy.

Response:

Question:

Anne Haas wrote:

. I wish some talk show host would do a program called "MOVE THE HELL ON, THAT WAS 20 YEARS AGO." Anne Anne, you are my hero also.  I wanna be like you when (if) I ever grow up.  :-)

DITTO!  :-) Joanne

Response:

Indyguy1 wrote:

Well, then you haven’t been reading all the threads. I posted a number of time times prior to the Jennifer thread in the past week or so. In fact Anne R asked me a week or so ago where the heck I’d been.

Well, I did. I don’t know where this bit about you being a troll got started, but I personally have gotten quite a bit out of your posts in the past. I did think you were a little harsh to Jennifer there, she’s in a tough situation and dont’ forget she’s very young too. I remember being in love at 22, I’d go back there in a second! But I’ve also learned a lot of very tough things in these 28-33 years, and a LOT of them I didn’t know and wouldn’t have accepted at the beginning of my relationship. Some people arent’ ready to give up the pain. But I never thought of you as a troll… is somebody saying I did? Is that why my name came up? I was glad you were back when you started posting again! Anne

Response:

Anne wrote:

Indyguy1 wrote: Well, then you haven’t been reading all the threads. I posted a number of time times prior to the Jennifer thread in the past week or so. In fact Anne R asked me a week or so ago where the heck I’d been. Well, I did.

Thanks for backing me up.:)  I don’t know where this bit about you being a troll got started,

but I personally have gotten quite a bit out of your posts in the past.

Thank you and I from yours.:) Not to mention a number of belly laughs! You are one funny lady!  I did think

you were a little harsh to Jennifer there,

I agree and I did apologize.  she’s in a tough situation and dont’ forget

she’s very young too. I remember being in love at 22, I’d go back there in a second!

LOL I should be so lucky to be able to remember that far aback.:)  But

I’ve also learned a lot of very tough things in these 28-33 years, and a LOT of them I didn’t know and wouldn’t have accepted at the beginning of my

relationship.

Some people arent’ ready to give up the pain.

How true.

But I never thought of you as a troll… is somebody saying I did?

No. Apparently lil and Geri were discussing that I was most likely a troll. I guess lil also brought it up at Shay’s baby shower.  Is that

why my name came up?

No *I* brought up your name as I knew you would remember I had posted prior to the infamous Jennifer thread. Lil had thought I had not posted in a long while and felt I caused some sort of riff between her and Merrie and then wasn’t around again until this Jennifer thing. Leading her to asssume I was a troll. I was glad you were back when you started posting again! Thanks for saying that Anne. Indy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Anne

Response:

I, for one, have a HUGE problem with this.  When Mike and I were having problems, you could have never, ever, ever convinced me that Tori was better off with a f— up for a dad and a mother who did everything.  I was a single parent in a two parent home.  When he told me that he’d give up his parental rights in order NOT to pay CS, I was so thrilled!  I’d have gone with that deal in a heart beat! I was NOT going to stay in a marriage where I was cussed out daily, told that HIS son was perfect and it was ME that had the problem, one night I had a boot shoved in my face because MY dog chewed it up.  I can remember another night I was sick and asked Mike to let Tori lie with him for a minute.  I’m in the bathroom throwing up, Tori’s crying – and he’s yelling at her for crying! Yeah, this is a marriage I would have stayed in for my child’s sake.  Don’t think so.  My daughter would have been better off without the father, thank you very much. Of course, since Mike has gotten his act together, Tori likes the father he’s become and Mike has realized that everyone making excuses for his son has given him a reason NOT to accept responsibility for his problems (hence, the running away because he got caught with drugs – it’s easier to run than deal with the consequences). Unfortunately, my SS had 13 1/2 years to have everyone feel sorry for him and justify WHY he shouldn’t have to face consequences for his actions. Lying?  Oh, that’s just him – he lies so much, I don’t think he knows how to tell the truth any more.  Stealing?  Oh, no, he’d never do that. Yeah, we’re trying to work on the marriage, but between the son’s attitude, Mike’s parents attitude of we can do no right and SS can do no wrong, and the ex’s attitude of she’s a better parent – there are days I’d rather live in Alaska than continue this marriage. "Indyguy1" <indyg…@aol.com

wrote in message

news:20001019014520.00976.00000407@ng-fo1.aol.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

I think Brian has a copy of one of her studies stating that she feels

that

parents should stay in bad marriages for their childrens’ sakes.  (Unless there is domestic violence, child abuse or drug use.) From my understanding she feels couples should try their best to work out

their

differances for the sake of everyone, including themselves, in families. Do you have a problem with this train of thought, Geri?

Response:

"Wendy A. S. Taylor" <ccx…@coventry.ac.uk

wrote in message

news:8smkc6$fq0$1@leofric.coventry.ac.uk…

Well I have to say that I didn’t read anything offensive, or troll like in her post.

Did you read anything particularly helpful or supportive in it?  I didn’t.

It’s your perogative to killfile her if you want, but why say so on the newsgroup.

Um…because it came up in a conversation with Geri?  Did it offend you in some way I don’t know about?  Is there some new content bylaw on here that I maybe missed?

 Other people can and will make their own minds up about who and what to read.

Of course they can.  Good Lord, where was it I said that everyone should ignore her or kill her?  Geri said that she suspected that she was a troll and I commented that I thought so too.  I changed the subject because I was no longer discussing Oprah. Get a grip, hon.  When exactly did you become the newsgroup police? lil — "It’s hard when you discover what keeps you going keeps you all alone."  – Blue Rodeo

Response:

Anne Robotti <robo…@worldnet.att.net

wrote in message

news:39EEE01B.3E8E08C3@worldnet.att.net… I wish some talk show host would do a program called "MOVE THE

HELL ON, THAT WAS 20 YEARS AGO."

Anne anne anne anne anne – ROFLLL.

Response:

"rebecca" <justrebec…@yahoo.com

wrote in message

news:1pGH5.8713$ji3.197226@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net…

Hmm… lil, I always thought Al was pretty reasonable

Alan *was* pretty reasonable.  But his character wasn’t consistent. For instance, he was only more than happy to trash Enricho Suave for his comments, but before he left he jumped down our throats for the way *we* responded to him. There’s more, but it’s kind of hard to explain.  It was never intended to start a major discussion, I was just making a comment.  :-) lil — "It’s hard when you discover what keeps you going keeps you all alone."  – Blue Rodeo

Response:

Hey Tea, I’m sure I won’t be the only one saying this. Mediation..(and Vicki will correct me if I’m wrong, hopefully) Mediation is a fabulous avenue for parents like you, who are *able* to agree, and can set "looser" terms to the children’s custody schedules. However, if you’ve been lurking long, you’ll have already found that a large part of this group comes from situations that this would be impossible…and unfortunately the courts do have to have the end say. Even then, justice or fairness doesn’t always happen. So..basically you are correct, the system assumes there is a war going on, because if there is no prior agreement reached…that is the ground the courts see them on. ange In article <gKFH5.112147$47.1480…@news.bc.tac.net

,

  "Hilander" <hilan…@block.lightspeed.ca

wrote:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

"Indyguy1" <indyg…@aol.com wrote in message news:20001019014520.00976.00000407@ng-fo1.aol.com… But regarless of Wallerstien’s feelings on who should divorce and

who

shouldn’t, the results of her findings on how divorce and the way

parents

act post-divorce stand on their own. This is a valid point. My ex and I are not yet legally divorced [can't afford it financially

at

this time] but have been living seperate and apart for almost 5 years. We’ve both looked into doing it ourselves but are afraid that we might

get

something wrong on the paper and can’t afford [financially] to be

making

those kinds of mistakes only to have to do it again. What gets both of us is how the ’system’ is set up.  We do get along

fairly

well as people but as parents, we are both on the same page and have

no

problems.  The ’system’ however, not only assumes there must be a

‘war’ but

there is so much there that we believe provokes negative feelings when

there

needn’t be. We have joint custody and guardianship.  We do NOT like the idea of

courts

telling either of us when we can or can’t see kids because we have

always

worked it out verbally with no problems and we can’t imagine how

difficult

it must be on adults as well as kids if there is no flexibility.  Life

is

not static.  It is dynamic! But the papers we looked at default to one parent or the other having

’sole

custody’.  Why?  If we were ‘pushed’ into that route [through lawyers, family and friends] then I can see how it would cause negative

feelings

because your mind is then tuned to look for ‘negatives’ in one parent

over

the other as a parent.  Not healthy. At a time like that, wouldn’t it be better for kids if the system

helped

promote and celebrate the *strengths* of both parents and how those strengths could compliment and work well with each other as parents?! I don’t want a piece of paper telling me that ex can only see kids on weekends.  What if they have a weekday off from school and dad has

tickets

to the hockey game?  What if one of the kids has been invited to a

birthday

party on the weekend and doesn’t want to go away that day? While in some cases, the personality of the individual parents may be

a big

problem for the divorce process and/or seperation, I also see that the system and even societal attitude towards divorce/seperation pushes

people

into seperate corners of the mat when they might not have gone there

in the

first place. I don’t think seperation/divorce is bad for kids, however, the current process and aftermath as it is set up today I do believe has a

detrimental

effect on *everyone* involved unless they actively and consciously

work

around/against the system. Chat later, Tea

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

Response:

On Thu, 19 Oct 2000 01:47:52 -0700, "lilblakdog" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -<lbdcreati…@dog.com

wrote: "Geri and Brian" <gplen…@aol.comicrelief wrote in message news:20001019034446.05269.00000435@ng-cb1.aol.com… Are you a troll? Indy showed up just as Alan Moore and his wife disappeared (and, quite frankly, I had my doubts about *their* sincerity, as *they* showed up just as Enricho Suave disappeared).  She was sticking up for Alan’s wife by asking us not to use the term biomom to differentiate, because we *weren’t* mothers in any way, shape or form. She had a couple of serious sounding posts, one of which started something of a dispute between Merrie and I.  I couldn’t help but notice that *during* this dispute, Indy was nowhere to be seen.  When I was down in Tacoma for Shay’s baby shower, I’d mentioned that I suspected that she was just trolling. Her response to Jennifer/John Durden is the first one of her posts that I’ve read since, and her tactic has changed rather severely from the concerned great-aunt who doesn’t want to offend anybody.  So now I’m basically certain that she *is* a troll and will be blocking her posts.

Oh shut teh hell up. YOur ignorant McCarthyesque accusations are pathetic at best. STop trying to be a netcop. Loev, Poopie Pants

Response:

Geri wrote:

Do you have a problem with this train of thought, Geri? I don’t have a strong opinion about it one way or the other.  Are you a troll?

Nope. But I see you’d like to portray me as one, seeing as I don’t always agree with the way you see and do things.

You are rude to everyone.

Everyone? Hardly. Indy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

lil wrote:

"Geri and Brian" <gplen…@aol.comicrelief wrote in message news:20001019034446.05269.00000435@ng-cb1.aol.com… Are you a troll? Indy showed up just as Alan Moore and his wife disappeared (and, quite frankly, I had my doubts about *their* sincerity, as *they* showed up just as Enricho Suave disappeared).  She was sticking up for Alan’s wife by asking us not to use the term biomom to differentiate, because we *weren’t* mothers in any way, shape or form.

Uh, excuse me. I do not know the people you speak of. I don’t even remember much of the thread. But I do remember I did NOT say step-mothers were not mothers in any way shape or form.

She had a couple of serious sounding posts, one of which started something of a dispute between Merrie and I.

I don’t recall any dispute between you and Merrie. But then again I am not a constant on this ng. And if you and Merrie disagree or any other posters on this or any other ng it is between the two of you or them not anyone else. And anything *I* post about or respond to I consider serious.  I couldn’t help but notice that *during*

this dispute, Indy was nowhere to be seen.

Well hang me out to dry because I don’t check in here as often as others do. Geesh  When I was down in Tacoma for

Shay’s baby shower, I’d mentioned that I suspected that she was just trolling.

I thought trolls came in and stirred up trouble then left. I asked questions. I gave comments. I come back because of our nephew and the mess he is in. There are some here that I really value their opinion. You were one of them. You might want to check the 15 years hence thread and see the compliment I paid you, earlier this week or last week.

Her response to Jennifer/John Durden is the first one of her posts that I’ve read since,

Well, then you haven’t been reading all the threads. I posted a number of time times prior to the Jennifer thread in the past week or so. In fact Anne R asked me a week or so ago where the heck I’d been. and her tactic has changed rather severely from the concerned

great-aunt who doesn’t want to offend anybody.

I’m usually very calm in my responces on this ng. There was something that really bothered me about Jennifer’s stance on her b/f’s children, their mother and her role in the boy’s lives. Maybe it was her arrogance or the desire for her to see the boy’s mother out of their lives after only being their dad’s g/f for about one year, I’m not sure. But in the mean time I did apologize to her. Although from reading the way she responds to many of the good solid ideas she has been given it looks like she may not want any helpful sugestions, afterall.   So now I’m basically certain

that she *is* a troll and will be blocking her posts.

If you choose to block my posts, Lil, that is your perogative. But to think I am a troll is not only false but really less than I expected of you. Indy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

lil

Response:

In a previous article, "Hilander" <hilan…@block.lightspeed.ca

said:

<I don’t want a piece of paper telling me that ex can only see kids on <weekends.  What if they have a weekday off from school and dad has tickets <to the hockey game?  What if one of the kids has been invited to a birthday <party on the weekend and doesn’t want to go away that day? Then so what?  One of the things I stress with my mediation clients is that the agreement is for both of them, and that the separation police aren’t going to be checking to see if parenting time is going to go the way the document says it does.  The doc is there to set basic expectations and to satisfy the court that everyone has knowledge of the important things.  You can put it into practice **any** way that you and your ex want to.  Any way at all.  Total freedom to do that. See a mediator.  It makes divorce *much* cheaper, especially when you and your ex get along as well as you seem to.  Any competent mediator can put all the flexibility you want in your agreement. Vicki — Bring Dejanews back to life!  See the petition at http://www2.petitionsonline.com/dejanews/petition.html and sign it. Help bring back a valuable Usenet resource!

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Do these whining *adult* brats think they would have been any happier in a home where their parents were two miserable people who *should* have been divorced? Been there, done that, NEVER going back. One of the things I always promised myself I’d do for my children is have the strength and courage to get divorced if their Dad and I really couldn’t work things out. I made this promise to myself when I was *nine years old.* If kids need counseling to get them through the divorce, to help them cope, I’m all for it. But this Oprah thing is going to be another attempt to excuse these people’s actions as adults because of their pain as a child. I had pain as a child too, every- body did. I wish some talk show host would do a program called "MOVE THE HELL ON, THAT WAS 20 YEARS AGO." Anne

Anne, you are my hero also.  I wanna be like you when (if) I ever grow up.  :-) Anne H. "To the world you might be one person, but to one person you might be  the world."

Response:

"Indyguy1" <indyg…@aol.com

wrote in message

news:20001019014520.00976.00000407@ng-fo1.aol.com…

But regarless of Wallerstien’s feelings on who should divorce and who shouldn’t, the results of her findings on how divorce and the way parents

act

post-divorce stand on their own.

This is a valid point. My ex and I are not yet legally divorced [can't afford it financially at this time] but have been living seperate and apart for almost 5 years. We’ve both looked into doing it ourselves but are afraid that we might get something wrong on the paper and can’t afford [financially] to be making those kinds of mistakes only to have to do it again. What gets both of us is how the ’system’ is set up.  We do get along fairly well as people but as parents, we are both on the same page and have no problems.  The ’system’ however, not only assumes there must be a ‘war’ but there is so much there that we believe provokes negative feelings when there needn’t be. We have joint custody and guardianship.  We do NOT like the idea of courts telling either of us when we can or can’t see kids because we have always worked it out verbally with no problems and we can’t imagine how difficult it must be on adults as well as kids if there is no flexibility.  Life is not static.  It is dynamic! But the papers we looked at default to one parent or the other having ’sole custody’.  Why?  If we were ‘pushed’ into that route [through lawyers, family and friends] then I can see how it would cause negative feelings because your mind is then tuned to look for ‘negatives’ in one parent over the other as a parent.  Not healthy. At a time like that, wouldn’t it be better for kids if the system helped promote and celebrate the *strengths* of both parents and how those strengths could compliment and work well with each other as parents?! I don’t want a piece of paper telling me that ex can only see kids on weekends.  What if they have a weekday off from school and dad has tickets to the hockey game?  What if one of the kids has been invited to a birthday party on the weekend and doesn’t want to go away that day? While in some cases, the personality of the individual parents may be a big problem for the divorce process and/or seperation, I also see that the system and even societal attitude towards divorce/seperation pushes people into seperate corners of the mat when they might not have gone there in the first place. I don’t think seperation/divorce is bad for kids, however, the current process and aftermath as it is set up today I do believe has a detrimental effect on *everyone* involved unless they actively and consciously work around/against the system. Chat later, Tea

Response:

lilblakdog <lbdcreati…@dog.com

wrote in message

news:tyyH5.1009$sq4.23642@newscontent-01.sprint.ca…

Indy showed up just as Alan Moore and his wife disappeared (and, quite frankly, I had my doubts about *their* sincerity, as *they* showed up just as Enricho Suave disappeared).  She was sticking up for Alan’s wife by asking us not to use the term biomom to differentiate, because we

*weren’t*

mothers in any way, shape or form.

Hmm… lil, I always thought Al was pretty reasonable, and IIRC, everyone _did_ jump straight down his wife’s (Ginny?) throat for whatever comment she made. Go figger.

Response:

Tommorrow morning author Judith Wallerstien will be on Oprah tommorrow. Her latest book, The Unexpected Legacy of Divorce, uncovers many of the feelings children of divorce have towards divorce and the way their lives went after their parents divorced.

I think Brian has a copy of one of her studies stating that she feels that parents should stay in bad marriages for their childrens’ sakes.  (Unless there is domestic violence, child abuse or drug use.)   ~~~~~~~~~~ Geri   ^   ^      

 ’  ’ <

"There is no snooze button on a cat who wants breakfast."- Anonymous ~~~~~~~~~~

Response:

Geri wrote:

Tommorrow morning author Judith Wallerstien will be on Oprah tommorrow. Her latest book, The Unexpected Legacy of Divorce, uncovers many of the feelings children of divorce have towards divorce and the way their lives went after their parents divorced. I think Brian has a copy of one of her studies stating that she feels that parents should stay in bad marriages for their childrens’ sakes.  (Unless there is domestic violence, child abuse or drug use.)  

From my understanding she feels couples should try their best to work out their differances for the sake of everyone, including themselves, in families. Do you have a problem with this train of thought, Geri? But regarless of Wallerstien’s feelings on who should divorce and who shouldn’t, the results of her findings on how divorce and the way parents act post-divorce stand on their own. Gee, I wonder if the poor results of children of divorce that she followed for 25 years could be part of the reason she would prefer to see families stick together? Indy

Response:

Do you have a problem with this train of thought, Geri?

I don’t have a strong opinion about it one way or the other.  Are you a troll? You are rude to everyone. ~~~~~~~~~~ Geri   ^   ^      

 ’  ’ <

"There is no snooze button on a cat who wants breakfast."- Anonymous ~~~~~~~~~~

Response:

"Geri and Brian" <gplen…@aol.comicrelief

wrote in message

news:20001019034446.05269.00000435@ng-cb1.aol.com…

Are you a troll?

Indy showed up just as Alan Moore and his wife disappeared (and, quite frankly, I had my doubts about *their* sincerity, as *they* showed up just as Enricho Suave disappeared).  She was sticking up for Alan’s wife by asking us not to use the term biomom to differentiate, because we *weren’t* mothers in any way, shape or form. She had a couple of serious sounding posts, one of which started something of a dispute between Merrie and I.  I couldn’t help but notice that *during* this dispute, Indy was nowhere to be seen.  When I was down in Tacoma for Shay’s baby shower, I’d mentioned that I suspected that she was just trolling. Her response to Jennifer/John Durden is the first one of her posts that I’ve read since, and her tactic has changed rather severely from the concerned great-aunt who doesn’t want to offend anybody.  So now I’m basically certain that she *is* a troll and will be blocking her posts. lil — "It’s hard when you discover what keeps you going keeps you all alone."  – Blue Rodeo

Response:

In article <tyyH5.1009$sq4.23…@newscontent-01.sprint.ca

,

lilblakdog <lbdcreati…@dog.com

wrote: Her response to Jennifer/John Durden is the first one of her posts that I’ve read since, and her tactic has changed rather severely from the concerned great-aunt who doesn’t want to offend anybody.  So now I’m basically certain that she *is* a troll and will be blocking her posts.

Well I have to say that I didn’t read anything offensive, or troll like in her post.   It’s your perogative to killfile her if you want, but why say so on the newsgroup.  Other people can and will make their own minds up about who and what to read. Wendy

Response:

In article <20001018220913.15571.00000…@ng-cv1.aol.com

, posted 19 Oct

2000 02:09:13 GMT, Geri and Brian says…

Tommorrow morning author Judith Wallerstien will be on Oprah tommorrow. Her latest book, The Unexpected Legacy of Divorce, uncovers many of the feelings children of divorce have towards divorce and the way their lives went after their parents divorced. I think Brian has a copy of one of her studies stating that she feels that parents should stay in bad marriages for their childrens’ sakes.  (Unless there is domestic violence, child abuse or drug use.)  

You know, my mother stayed in her marriage for her children’s sake, for my sake. I unconsciously learned that I was responsible for my mother’s unhappy life. I heard about her sacrifice almost every day. It took me six years after leaving to realise that I was in a land of psychological torture, and I’m still dealing with the crap ten years later. If Wallerstein has a study stating that people should stay in unhappy marriages for the children’s sake, she’s shot herself in the foot. K**** — Quotes of a five year old girl: "I felt some wriggly things on my head but they were only my own two fingers playing with themselves. I thought it might be a worm."

Response:

In article <39EEDB73.246C…@ntcorp.com

, Karla  <ka…@ntcorp.com wrote: Gee, I wonder if the poor results of children of divorce that she followed for 25 years could be part of the reason she would prefer to see families stick together? I know that one of the flaws in the scientific method is that people tend to skew results to support their hypothesis…especially in the social sciences.  It’s too bad because the scientific method is supposed

The social sciences are very difficult to be scientific in because it is almost impossible to control extraneous factors.

to allow you the chance to examine data to see if your hypothesis is right or wrong, but because of the way grant money and other financial resources tied to "results," people now actively skew the data to support their hypothesis or risk becoming labeled as a non-producer and loosing financial support.

This is true even in the sciences.

Mark Twain said there are three types of lies: Lies, damned lies and statistics.  There’s a reason for that.  I’ve worked in marketing, I know that you tell the "professionals" what you want to prove and they find the data to support your findings.  

One of my favourite authors.

The main criticism I have read on this book (I’m on the waiting list for the book, so I haven’t read it yet) is that her conclusions are flawed due to unequal comparisions.  In other words, she’s not comparing apples and apples, she’s comparing apples and oranges and declaring that the apples rule.

I haven’t read the book, nor seen the programme, but I have done quite a lot of reading on the subject of academic performance and divorce This is quite an interesting URL:  www.prospect.org/archives/18/18mcla.html I know it is harder to supervise two children doing homework, on my own, and still make sure supper, dishes, etc. all get done.  I know that I can’t control what is being done at my ex’s, though this isn’t to say that he doesn’t care or try in his own fashion. After the counselling you went through, Karla, did they give any counselling/advice for you and your ex for co-parenting thereafter? Wendy

Response:

I have been reading the threads started by Judith. I understand her pain and dissapointment because of her adult children’s actions. Perhaps by understanding more about the long lasting effects of divorce on children and how children may not be as reslient as some adults who have divorced wish to believe they are many step-parents, along with birth-parents, can understand more fully why adult children do and say the things they do and say. Not that I am saying Judith’s kids were correct in their treatment of her, as I don’t feel they were. Tommorrow morning author Judith Wallerstien will be on Oprah tommorrow. Her latest book, The Unexpected Legacy of Divorce, uncovers many of the feelings children of divorce have towards divorce and the way their lives went after their parents divorced. The people she speaks with and about in her books are now adults. She followed them from the time of divorce in their childhood into adulthood. I don’t know if steps will be addressed in her interview, but even if they aren’t, I’m sure this show will give all parents who raise or help raise children that have been touched by divorce a better idea of what divorce does to children and how the parent’s actions impact the children’s lives into adulthood. This might be worth taping if you won’t be home when Oprah is on. Heck, it might be good enough that your spouse and you should view it together! If it’s *really* good it might be worth sending a copy to your ex or your spouses ex.:) Indy (who already read the book and can’t wait for the interview!)

Response:

Sorry Indy, but OH GAG! I know I’m going to sound just evil when I say this, but I’m sick of bending over backwards to understand the effects of divorce on the poor little angels. Sometimes people get divorced, sometimes people die, and I just think it’s a symptom of everything that’s wrong with our society that we coddle kids through this and excuse their most selfish actions by trying to "understand their point of view." Do these whining *adult* brats think they would have been any happier in a home where their parents were two miserable people who *should* have been divorced? Been there, done that, NEVER going back. One of the things I always promised myself I’d do for my children is have the strength and courage to get divorced if their Dad and I really couldn’t work things out. I made this promise to myself when I was *nine years old.* If kids need counseling to get them through the divorce, to help them cope, I’m all for it. But this Oprah thing is going to be another attempt to excuse these people’s actions as adults because of their pain as a child. I had pain as a child too, every- body did. I wish some talk show host would do a program called "MOVE THE HELL ON, THAT WAS 20 YEARS AGO." Anne – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Indyguy1 wrote:

I have been reading the threads started by Judith. I understand her pain and dissapointment because of her adult children’s actions. Perhaps by understanding more about the long lasting effects of divorce on children and how children may not be as reslient as some adults who have divorced wish to believe they are many step-parents, along with birth-parents, can understand more fully why adult children do and say the things they do and say. Not that I am saying Judith’s kids were correct in their treatment of her, as I don’t feel they were. Tommorrow morning author Judith Wallerstien will be on Oprah tommorrow. Her latest book, The Unexpected Legacy of Divorce, uncovers many of the feelings children of divorce have towards divorce and the way their lives went after their parents divorced. The people she speaks with and about in her books are now adults. She followed them from the time of divorce in their childhood into adulthood. I don’t know if steps will be addressed in her interview, but even if they aren’t, I’m sure this show will give all parents who raise or help raise children that have been touched by divorce a better idea of what divorce does to children and how the parent’s actions impact the children’s lives into adulthood. This might be worth taping if you won’t be home when Oprah is on. Heck, it might be good enough that your spouse and you should view it together! If it’s *really* good it might be worth sending a copy to your ex or your spouses ex.:) Indy (who already read the book and can’t wait for the interview!)

Response:

I think the data is useless without the proper comparison – which wouldn’t be happy families that stayed together, but rather families that stayed together and should have been divorced. I think her findings are faulty.  How can she determine if the poor results of children are due the divorce rather than the bad relationship between the parents?  Where are the results of children raised by acrimonious parents that didn’t divorce?  How can we quantify the level of acrimony so that we can isolate that from divorce and be able to distinguish if it’s divorce that’s causative or the acrimony? Merrie Indyguy1 <indyg…@aol.com

wrote in message

news:20001019014520.00976.00000407@ng-fo1.aol.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

But regarless of Wallerstien’s feelings on who should divorce and who shouldn’t, the results of her findings on how divorce and the way parents

act

post-divorce stand on their own. Gee, I wonder if the poor results of children of divorce that she followed

for

25 years could be part of the reason she would prefer to see families

stick

together? Indy

Response:

Question:

Hi Jim I thought I would let you know about tonight. I haven’t had any medicine at all since 4 yesterday afternoon but they were not worried about it and my B/P is up to 148/90 from 124/80 last time. My temp is 100 and I am usually ready to be buried by then since normal is 96 for me or I am dog sick. My thyroid medicine has taken my values back to the normal range but they still would not let me have my Xenycal after promising me I could until my fasting labs are done in two weeks and another three after that. I am very discouraged and angry because I really wanted to start it when I felt better. They said in my area a nasty virus is going around no thought it could be Septic since I have run around with infection in my face for six months now. So anyway every time I go to the doctor it is one more diagnosis and this time is I am anemic. Gosh if I get worse just dig a hole and throw me in. The good news is I lost another six pounds. Whoopie. I guess I am glad for that but the doctor should not lie and tell me I can have something and then change it. Oh one more good news. The nurse said I could have my Zoloft dose raised so I will be singing a happy dance when it takes effect. Thanks for listening I feel better just knowing you cared about me. Thanks a million. Di — May You Live Today~By~How You Want To Be Remembered Tomorrow Please Remove No Spam before e-mailing

Response:

Diana Ya doing the happy dance yet?  Sorry to hear about all the discouragement.  I dont wanna go off on a rant, but I am really disappointed in the way the medical system works these days.  I am not really putting blame on Docs, or insurance.  I dont know the inner workings so not going to be too quick to pass blame.  I just dont remember having to wait so long in the waiting room to see a doctor, and the lack of sympathy in the medical profession.  When I was younger and diagnosed, my docs nurse came to the hospital to see how I was doing.  It wasnt a professional visit, it was courtesy.  I know that cant take place in todays system, but when you look into a doctors, or nurses face these days (speaking very generally of course) their eyes seem so cold, like if they are working on a machine or something.  Oopps I ranted. Well, I am still happy that you visited the doc.  You do seem more spunky since your return. <g Feeling any better?  Stick in there and when ya need support, ya know theres lots of us here. Jim — Ouch, That H3rtz http://othserver.coxinet.net/ MARS Cars-2, Nascar 3 Driver #147 http://www.mars-racing.com/ http://members.tripod.com/rage613mars/

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Jim I thought I would let you know about tonight. I haven’t had any medicine at all since 4 yesterday afternoon but they were not worried about it and my B/P is up to 148/90 from 124/80 last time. My temp is 100 and I am usually ready to be buried by then since normal is 96 for me or I am dog sick. My thyroid medicine has taken my values back to the normal range but they still would not let me have my Xenycal after promising me I could until my fasting labs are done in two weeks and another three after that. I am very discouraged and angry because I really wanted to start it when I felt better. They said in my area a nasty virus is going around no thought it could be Septic since I have run around with infection in my face for six months now. So anyway every time I go to the doctor it is one more diagnosis and this time is I am anemic. Gosh if I get worse just dig a hole and throw me in. The good news is I lost another six pounds. Whoopie. I guess I am glad for that but the doctor should not lie and tell me I can have something and then change it. Oh one more good news. The nurse said I could have my Zoloft dose raised so I will be singing a happy dance when it takes effect. Thanks for listening I feel better just knowing you cared about me. Thanks a million. Di — May You Live Today~By~How You Want To Be Remembered Tomorrow Please Remove No Spam before e-mailing

Response:

Hi Again Ditto to all you said and today was the first time I saw a nurse practitioner but you know I think I will keep her. She was more thorough than the doctor even though I like her too but the nurse was better and patient friendly. I still feel awful but I will have my phenergan for the nausea and it will be better. I appreciate your help and support. As usual ASD come to help me. I owe everyone so much. They have pulled me through some really tough times. Thanks again Di — May You Live Today~By~How You Want To Be Remembered Tomorrow Please Remove No Spam before e-mailing

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Diana Ya doing the happy dance yet?  Sorry to hear about all the discouragement.  I dont wanna go off on a rant, but I am really disappointed in the way the medical system works these days.  I am not really putting blame on Docs, or insurance.  I dont know the inner workings so not going to be too quick to pass blame.  I just dont remember having to wait so long in the waiting room to see a doctor, and the lack of sympathy in the medical profession.  When I was younger and diagnosed, my docs nurse came to the hospital to see how I was doing.  It wasnt a professional visit, it was courtesy.  I know that cant take place in todays system, but when you look into a doctors, or nurses face these days (speaking very generally of course) their eyes seem so cold, like if they are working on a machine or something.  Oopps I ranted. Well, I am still happy that you visited the doc.  You do seem more spunky since your return. <g Feeling any better?  Stick in there and when ya need support, ya know theres lots of us here. Jim — Ouch, That H3rtz http://othserver.coxinet.net/ MARS Cars-2, Nascar 3 Driver #147 http://www.mars-racing.com/ http://members.tripod.com/rage613mars/ Hi Jim I thought I would let you know about tonight. I haven’t had any medicine at all since 4 yesterday afternoon but they were not worried about it and my B/P is up to 148/90 from 124/80 last time. My temp is 100 and I am usually ready to be buried by then since normal is 96 for me or I am dog sick. My thyroid medicine has taken my values back to the normal range but they still would not let me have my Xenycal after promising me I could until my fasting labs are done in two weeks and another three after that. I am very discouraged and angry because I really wanted to start it when I felt better. They said in my area a nasty virus is going around no thought it could be Septic since I have run around with infection in my face for six months now. So anyway every time I go to the doctor it is one more diagnosis and this time is I am anemic. Gosh if I get worse just dig a hole and throw me in. The good news is I lost another six pounds. Whoopie. I guess I am glad for that but the doctor should not lie and tell me I can have something and then change it. Oh one more good news. The nurse said I could have my Zoloft dose raised so I will be singing a happy dance when it takes effect. Thanks for listening I feel better just knowing you cared about me. Thanks a million. Di — May You Live Today~By~How You Want To Be Remembered Tomorrow Please Remove No Spam before e-mailing

Response:

could be Septic since I have run around with infection in my face for six months now

Diana, Just a question, have they ever treated that infection? If not why not? 6 months is a long time to wallk around with an infection. just curious Ruthie Up here in Michigan. Friends multiply joy and divide sorrow! and……. Just remember…if the world didn’t suck, we’d all fall off. <G

Response:

Hi Ruthie Yes for three months she agreed it was sinus and I went to urgent care twice and her once and was on antibiotics for ten days each time and then the last three months she changed her mind since I had a raised area on my gum above the tooth that broke off and I keep trying to tell her it started in my cheek and nose and went to my gum and she said there was no way it could get to my gum but that isn’t what she said when she asked if my teeth hurt and I said yes. Hmmm I wonder sometimes about doctors. I do go to the dentist this coming Tuesday so hopefully it will be taken care of. Di — May You Live Today~By~How You Want To Be Remembered Tomorrow Please Remove No Spam before e-mailing

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – could be Septic since I have run around with infection in my face for six months now Diana, Just a question, have they ever treated that infection? If not why not? 6 months is a long time to wallk around with an infection. just curious Ruthie Up here in Michigan. Friends multiply joy and divide sorrow! and……. Just remember…if the world didn’t suck, we’d all fall off. <G

Response:

Hmmm I wonder sometimes about doctors. I do go to the dentist this coming Tuesday so hopefully it will be taken care of. Di

Di, Hooray! Teeth can make you feel rotten, I’ve had abcessed teeth and they aren’t fun, Hope all goes well on tuesday, and you’ll be feeling better soon! Ruthie Up here in Michigan. Friends multiply joy and divide sorrow! and……. Just remember…if the world didn’t suck, we’d all fall off. <G

Response:

Ruthie Hi. Thanks for your sweet post. I sure do hope Tuesday takes care of things with the dentist. Maybe even get rid of these daily headaches that started since it has been so long. Di. — May You Live Today~By~How You Want To Be Remembered Tomorrow Please Remove No Spam before e-mailing

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hmmm I wonder sometimes about doctors. I do go to the dentist this coming Tuesday so hopefully it will be taken care of. Di Di, Hooray! Teeth can make you feel rotten, I’ve had abcessed teeth and they aren’t fun, Hope all goes well on tuesday, and you’ll be feeling better soon! Ruthie Up here in Michigan. Friends multiply joy and divide sorrow! and……. Just remember…if the world didn’t suck, we’d all fall off. <G

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Ruthie Hi. Thanks for your sweet post. I sure do hope Tuesday takes care of things with the dentist. Maybe even get rid of these daily headaches that started since it has been so long. Di. — May You Live Today~By~How You Want To Be Remembered Tomorrow Please Remove No Spam before e-mailing Hmmm I wonder sometimes about doctors. I do go to the dentist this coming Tuesday so hopefully it will be taken care of. Di

Di, Anytime Hon, I just know when I had abcessed teeth, I felt like crap, my face would swell and the pain was so bad I wanted to shoot myslef… my whole face would hurt, I couldn’t sleep, thank God my dentist would usually see me the next day…. Let us know how it goes! Ruthie Up here in Michigan. Friends multiply joy and divide sorrow! and……. Just remember…if the world didn’t suck, we’d all fall off. <G

Response:

Ruthie I sure will. I promise. And thanks so much. Yes I have the same symptoms as you did and yes I would like to shoot myself, only problem is I have a deadly fear of guns and Dale sold all his when we got married. But my luck I would miss anyway so Tuesday will do better than the shooting. LOL. I have a sick sense of humor today but still so sick I can hardly sit here. Take care honey and thanks Di — May You Live Today~By~How You Want To Be Remembered Tomorrow Please Remove No Spam before e-mailing

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ruthie Hi. Thanks for your sweet post. I sure do hope Tuesday takes care of things with the dentist. Maybe even get rid of these daily headaches that started since it has been so long. Di. — May You Live Today~By~How You Want To Be Remembered Tomorrow Please Remove No Spam before e-mailing Hmmm I wonder sometimes about doctors. I do go to the dentist this coming Tuesday so hopefully it will be taken care of. Di Di, Anytime Hon, I just know when I had abcessed teeth, I felt like crap, my face would swell and the pain was so bad I wanted to shoot myslef… my whole face would hurt, I couldn’t sleep, thank God my dentist would usually see me the next day…. Let us know how it goes! Ruthie Up here in Michigan. Friends multiply joy and divide sorrow! and……. Just remember…if the world didn’t suck, we’d all fall off. <G

Response:

diana is one of the shining stars of our group. and we would be lost without her enthusiasm and her great willingness to listen to those that hurt. Speedy recovery from your virus.  Love me

Response:

Loretta You are such a sweet friend. Thanks. Today is a much better day for me. Your the greatest. I love you too. You are my role model, I want to be as beautiful as you are. Love Me — May You Live Today~By~How You Want To Be Remembered Tomorrow Please Remove No Spam before e-mailing

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – diana is one of the shining stars of our group. and we would be lost without her enthusiasm and her great willingness to listen to those that hurt. Speedy recovery from your virus.  Love me

Response:

Question:

 Well, I have stumbled into a setback the last few days…I am much more functional since I started the Zoloft, and when my time is occupied I do pretty dang well…However, the last couple of days, I have been alone with not much to occupy my time…This has been difficult…Not as bad as before but difficult…Today I cannot enjoy my usual Sunday morning lounge with paper in hand…Now I am begining to worry that I have peaked in the effect I will get from the Zoloft/Xanax combo…Could this be?  I am just about through with week 4 (2 weeks at 50, 2 at 100), will I see more improvement as the weeks go on…I got lots of improvement after 2 weeks, but haven’t seen any since…Need some good stuff today from you all!

Hi Charles, I can only speak from my experience with Paxil, the way I felt at week 4 was alright, the way I felt at  week 8 was good. I had a slow but steady improvement from the second week on Paxil which was the beginning of April, all the way through the summer, even though I didn`t increase my dose past the beginning of May. And I do remember having a off week around week 9 or 10, it had to do with a conflict I had with a family member. And I was so afraid I was having a setback or the med stopped working, which just added to my anxiety. Being alone use to  be a trigger for my anxiety, I think it was a lack of stimulation for me. I can tell you since being on Paxil, I LOVE being alone when I have the opportunity. My husband just had a business trip to Mexico, and normally I would be anxious, I enjoyed him being gone, this tells me I am really doing well( or maybe it is that he annoys the hell out of me <g ) You are having a rough week, but the Zoloft probably has not reached full effectiveness. You have to give it more time. I know this is easier said than done, but you need to occupy your mind. When I had a problem with boredom, what would happen is my thoughts turn inward, thinking about my anxiety and monitoring every sensation and twitch I was having. Even though you are having a bad time, from what you wrote I see improvement.  Sometimes getting better isn`t just measured in  having "good" days, but how we handle our bad days, and you say yourself, it is not as difficult as before. That tells me Zoloft is having a effect on you. Patience my dear friend, you will get there. *Hugs* P.S. And in a few weeks, if you feel you are`nt at the place you want to be, maybe increasing the Zoloft, you can go as high as 200mgs. Jackie "Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, The courage to change the things I cannot accept, And the wisdom to  hide the bodies of those I had to kill today because they ticked me  off and also, help me to be careful of the toes I step on today, as  they may be connected to the butt I may have to kiss tomorrow.

Response:

Hi Charles! I cannot help with the meds questions, but I did want you to know that I am sending positive thoughts your way1 I hope you feel better soon! Being alone is tough, I know but you will get through it! Hang in there! Steph

Charles Writes: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -To all:  Well, I have stumbled into a setback the last few days…I am much more functional since I started the Zoloft, and when my time is occupied I do pretty dang well…However, the last couple of days, I have been alone with not much to occupy my time…This has been difficult…Not as bad as before but difficult…Today I cannot enjoy my usual Sunday morning lounge with paper in hand…Now I am begining to worry that I have peaked in the effect I will get from the Zoloft/Xanax combo…Could this be?  I am just about through with week 4 (2 weeks at 50, 2 at 100), will I see more improvement as the weeks go on…I got lots of improvement after 2 weeks, but haven’t seen any since…Need some good stuff today from you all! Thanks, — Charles Phipps

Response:

Question:

Frankly, you’d be nuts if you weren’t depressed by this state of affairs. Ask your doc about antidepressants. Mel Headcat (head…@headcat.com) wrote:

: Does anyone else experience "emotional" symptoms when their : allergies/sinusitis is acting up? I find that I get *extremely* : depressed (low-spirited, hopeless, negative, generally defeated-feeling) : when my allergies kick in. : : I was allergy-free until I turned 40, but after that I started to notice : stuffyness, sneezing, sore throat, etc. whenever I was outdoors for any : length of time. Each year it got a little worse and finally last summer : it seemed to really "blossom" – I had what seemed like a whopper cold : that lasted literally from April through September. I had hoped the : arrival of cold weather would clear things up, but instead it got worse : – the allergy stuffyness/sneezing/etc. eased seamlessly into what was : first diagnosed as bronchitis and later recognized as pneumonia; I spent : November and December in bed and am truly just starting to feel good : again. But the damn allergy stuff is starting all over again! I’ve : learned to stay indoors a lot and that helps, as do antihistamines, etc. : But I seem to notice that in addition to the standard stuff, I also feel : distinctly depressed whenever the allergy thing is in high gear. Has : anyone else noticed this in conjunction with allergies/sinusitis? Or am : I nuts as well as allergic? : : Any input from other allergy sufferers is most gratefully welcomed. This : stuff as me about at my wits end!! The doctors I saw for pneumonia said : the allergies wouldn’t have had anything to do with it, but I find that : hard to believe. Anyone else experienced anything similar? : : R.A. Butters : — Mel Billik in Michigan Remember: if you can keep your head about you when all around you are in a panic … perhaps you don’t totally understand the situation!

Response:

Headcat, Are you taking decongestants when your allergies act up? I find that decongestants of ANY kind make me depressed, and the longer I take them the worse it gets. Clare

Response:

I finally found a psychiatrist who diagnosed my depression and related it to an early start with chronic allergies and sinusitis.  I’m now 39 and have had 7 surgeries (maybe 6 – they all blend together).  I am also allergic to aspirin and have found that I can’t take Ibuprofen or ANYTHING except 650 mg. of tylenol/acetominophen. H

Response:

In article <338CAD05.7…@iname.com

, Clare <cl…@iname.com wrote: Headcat, Are you taking decongestants when your allergies act up? I find that decongestants of ANY kind make me depressed, and the longer I take them the worse it gets. Clare

I’d like to echo what Clare said…many decongestants even advise that they can cause negative symptoms…related to nervous irritation or anxiety. COnsistent or excessive use of thiese medications have made me feel "depressed" in the past. I’d sooner irrigate, take papaya, or use very limited amounts of a prescribed spray. (Livostin is my choice.)

Response:

Question:

Excellent response. I really wish someone had given me this advice before I got into it. SNIP Many to totally stupid and embarassing  things in public.

That would be me. This may get you taked about but not in a light you would like.

And how. The danger is that you don’t know what will happen.  For damn sure don’t have to plan on driving.  I went into a corn field one night on two Vodka martinis, sound asleep at the wheel.  They check for the level and it was only .15.  But the combination of that and my BP pills knocked my but out.

Okay, are you sure you mean .15? Legally drunk is .10, you know… Just checking. G. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -SNIP

Response:

While on ADs, the effects of alcohol on my system are unpredictable. I

The effects of alcohol on bipolar people, on AD or not, is unpredictable. |Home page:http://reality.sgi.com/employees/chokshi_clubfed/ |Silicon Graphics, Inc., voice: (301) 572-1678, fax: (301) 572-8778 |—Mortal, why doth thou live like thou art immortal?

Response:

Can anyone tell me what the dangers are of taking Zoloft and alcohol together?  Is it just that the Zoloft may not be affective, or are there physical dangers?

Well, Zoloft is an antidepressant. Alcohol is a CNS depressant. Your call. Danny

Response:

Can anyone tell me what the dangers are of taking Zoloft and alcohol together?  Is it just that the Zoloft may not be affective, or are there physical dangers?

Zoloft (sertraline) is an antidepressant; alcohol is a central nervous system depressant, so the expectation would likely be that drinking while depressed would not be helpful to recovery. This is not to say that an occasional sip of alcohol would hurt, but it is always wise to speak with your own physician about these drinking while on psychiatric medications. I no longer drink while taking medications. I used to. Didn’t help at all to drink, in fact made it worse, so I quit. -jim

Response:

Can anyone tell me what the dangers are of taking Zoloft and alcohol together?  Is it just that the Zoloft may not be affective, or are there physical dangers? Well, Zoloft is an antidepressant. Alcohol is a CNS depressant. Your call. Danny

It is possible to have seizures and also strokes when combining alcohol and zoloft. TheDelser

Response:

: Ahcohol is a depressant, no matter what else you think about how good : it  makes you feel. It interferes with you Zoloft.       The term "depressant", when used in reference to alcohol, means that it slows you down, NOT that it causes the condition known as "depression". Alcohol *CAN* be dangerous with zoloft; it can make you MUCH drowsier/drunker than you expect, and long term alcohol use *CAN* cause depression (not because it’s a "depressant", but because of other changes that heavy use of alcohol causes in your body)      But light drinking is fairly safe.  The reason you’re told to avoid alcohol on zoloft is because you don’t have carte blanche freedom to drink as much as you want.

Response:

: It is possible to have seizures and also strokes when combining alcohol : and zoloft.      Strangely, this is NOT mentioned in any of the literature on zoloft. Care to substantiate this claim, oh ignoble bullshitter?

Response:

John, Not to be too dysphoric but some of us litle ole bipolars are smart enough to know the difference between depression and a CNS depressant. Amazing tho that may seem. Carma – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : Ahcohol is a depressant, no matter what else you think about how good : it  makes you feel. It interferes with you Zoloft.       The term "depressant", when used in reference to alcohol, means that it slows you down, NOT that it causes the condition known as "depression". Alcohol *CAN* be dangerous with zoloft; it can make you MUCH drowsier/drunker than you expect, and long term alcohol use *CAN* cause depression (not because it’s a "depressant", but because of other changes that heavy use of alcohol causes in your body)      But light drinking is fairly safe.  The reason you’re told to avoid alcohol on zoloft is because you don’t have carte blanche freedom to drink as much as you want.

Response:

Zoloft affects Serotonin, while alcohol affects GABA transmission and recption.  Unless there’s effects we’re not aware of.

Response:

John, Not to be too dysphoric but some of us litle ole bipolars are smart enough to know the difference between depression and a CNS depressant. Amazing tho that may seem.

From the evidence of my eyes and memory, a lot of depressed people don’t. The information is probably news to someone reading it, old hat though it was to you. —          The opinions given above may be mine. They might also            just be what I feel like saying right now, okay?

Response:

: John, : Not to be too dysphoric but some of us litle ole bipolars are smart : enough to know the difference between depression and a CNS depressant. : Amazing tho that may seem.      Why, then, didn’t you use the term "depressant" correctly in the following post that you made? : : Ahcohol is a depressant, no matter what else you think about how good : : it  makes you feel. It interferes with you Zoloft.

Response:

OUCH! nothing more to say…;)

Response:

: OUCH! nothing more to say…;) : I’ve taken Zoloft for 3 years and drank for 3+ years.  Zoloft has helped, and has been therapeutic.  I no longer take Zoloft, but I still have my beers. will

Response:

Well let’s see perhaps it is just I’ve been studying the wrong books but the last time I checked all forms of ETOH were listed as major central nervous system depressants and the formula 1 CNSD + 1 CNSD still looks like too drugged to cogitate properly let alone breath. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : John, : Not to be too dysphoric but some of us litle ole bipolars are smart : enough to know the difference between depression and a CNS depressant. : Amazing tho that may seem.      Why, then, didn’t you use the term "depressant" correctly in the following post that you made? : : Ahcohol is a depressant, no matter what else you think about how good : : it  makes you feel. It interferes with you Zoloft.

Response:

Hi all,  I’d like to mention an additional danger besides the one listed. Zoloft (as do ALL antidepressants) tends to lower the seizure threshold (i.e. make it easier to have a seizure) as does alcohol.  For most people this might not be a problem, but if you’re borderline seizure oriented, or especially overtired, be VERY careful of this combination.  I’d remind people as well, that this being cough/cold season, LIQUID nyquil is 50 proof or 25% alcohol.  Email welcome.  John Abeel — John Abeel, R.P.H. http://www.servtech.com/public/rxman " He who hath no scruples isn’t worth a dram " – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : John, : Not to be too dysphoric but some of us litle ole bipolars are smart : enough to know the difference between depression and a CNS depressant. : Amazing tho that may seem.      Why, then, didn’t you use the term "depressant" correctly in the following post that you made? : : Ahcohol is a depressant, no matter what else you think about how good : : it  makes you feel. It interferes with you Zoloft.

Response:

Can anyone tell me what the dangers are of taking Zoloft and alcohol together?  Is it just that the Zoloft may not be affective, or are there physical dangers?

Response:

Ahcohol is a depressant, no matter what else you think about how good it  makes you feel. It interferes with you Zoloft. Carma – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can anyone tell me what the dangers are of taking Zoloft and alcohol together?  Is it just that the Zoloft may not be affective, or are there physical dangers?

Response:

Can anyone tell me what the dangers are of taking Zoloft and alcohol together?  Is it just that the Zoloft may not be affective, or are there physical dangers?

You may get drunk a LOT faster. Then again, you may not. Charlie’s Sneaker Pages: http://sneakers.pair.com/ Best Value in Airplanes: http://www.boeing.com/

Response: