Question:

Hi all… A week ago Tues I saw my specialist who said to reduce my FloVent to 500 mcg per day and see how it goes.  So Tues I had the reduced dose and Wed I woke with that familar tiggle and congestion in the back of my throat.  I posted a message about this being related to reduced FloVent so fast but no one replied.  Then Wed afternoon my PEF dropped into my yellow zone where it has remained (9 1/2 days total).  During this time, I returned to 1000 mcg (last Fri).  Since I was taking my Bricanyl more frequently, I called my doctor who said to up the dose to 2000 mcg until things calm down then gradually reduce to my regular 1000 mcg.  I can’t figure out what caused this drop in PEF; I’m still very close to my red zone so I’m taking it easy, staying indoors and close to the phone incase my PEF drops to the red zone.  I’m drinking lots of tea and water.  At first I thought I may have a cold but no real cold symptoms have appeared other than feeling quite run down and sluggish.  I don’t have any nasal congestion, excessive coughing, sneezing.  I did notice a low grade transient fever that didn’t last very long.  Does anyone have any ideas what may have caused this?  I sure would like to find out so I can prevent it from happening again. — Janine

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A week ago Tues I saw my specialist who said to reduce my FloVent to 500 mcg per day and see how it goes.  So Tues I had the reduced dose and Wed I woke with that familar tiggle and congestion in the back of my throat.  I posted a message about this being related to reduced FloVent so fast but no one replied.  Then Wed afternoon my PEF dropped into my yellow zone where it has remained (9 1/2 days total).  During this time, I returned to 1000 mcg (last Fri).  Since I was taking my Bricanyl more frequently, I called my doctor who said to up the dose to 2000 mcg until things calm down then gradually reduce to my regular 1000 mcg.  I can’t figure out what caused this drop in PEF; I’m still very close to my red zone so I’m taking it easy, staying indoors and close to the phone incase my PEF drops to the red zone.  I’m drinking lots of tea and water.  At first I thought I may have a cold but no real cold symptoms have appeared other than feeling quite run down and sluggish.  I don’t have any nasal congestion, excessive coughing, sneezing.  I did notice a low grade transient fever that didn’t last very long.  Does anyone have any ideas what may have caused this?  I sure would like to find out so I can prevent it from happening again. —

Janine (in Canada), I would guess your exacerbation is caused by a virus, this happens often; external symptoms may be minimal but the lung function gets knocked down; another possibility is its one of your other triggers. Have your triggers been identified and exposure to them minimized? Per US Guidelines, fluticasone use above 660 mcg/day, or 3 puffs/day of Flovent 220 constitutes a High Dose. I believe in Canada you use the same MDI inhaler but labeled Flovent 250 since you measure dose at the nozzle whereas in the US its measured at the holder opening; so this translates to 750 mcg/day is a High Dose. It would be desireable to get your dose down to 500 mcg/day per your doctor’s suggestion, after you are over the exacerbation. Are you using any steroid-sparing meds; a long acting bronchodilator is usually recommended, Serevent, 2 pf twice a day; or TheoDur tablets. [I take both.] Another possibility is Accolate. Do you have Sinusitis or Gastroesophageal Reflux, that could be contributing to asthma? If so it needs to be treated. Do you breathe thru your nose most of the time (filters & humdifies air) Here are links on Asthma Triggers: ASTHMA TRIGGERS http://www.aaaai.org/patpub/resource/publicat/tips/tip04.html TRIGGERS OF ASTHMA http://www.njc.org/MFhtml/TRI_MF.html  Identifying Triggers of Asthma, 1994 http://www.ama-assn.org/special/asthma/treatmnt/updates/identify.htm Identifying  Asthma Triggers http://www.mayohealth.org/mayo/9602/htm/trigg_sb.htm Trigger-proofing your  environment http://www.lungusa.org/learn/asthma/astastrig.html  Asthma Triggers http://www.lungusa.org/global/news/medical/medfebaf.html  Ozone Air Pollution, Particulates Ellis

Response:

snip I would guess your exacerbation is caused by a virus, this happens often; external symptoms may be minimal but the lung function gets knocked down

There’s a nasty respiratory bug going around right now. My son, who is normally a Mild Persistant asthmatic, had a horrible time of it last week.  He dropped into his red zone fairly quickly, and when we got to the doctor, he was in bad shape.  He had to go onto oral prednisone for five days–and two days later, had a coughing fit so bad he had problems catching his breath and we did the 911/emergency room run, ending up with another breathing treatment (and a verdict of clear lungs) and a diagnosis of a virus-caused cough triggering bronchospasm.  So he got codeine to go with the prednisone. That same day he had a brief, but intense fever, going from normal to 103 degrees back down to normal in the space of five hours.  We visited the doctor, had x-rays done, because the doctor was worried about the possibility of pneumonia.  Lungs looked good, with only a few mucus plugs remaining in his lungs (the doctor pointed them out to me, saying "this is what an asthmatic’s lung looks like on x-rays)…it’s just an ugly, ugly virus causing coughing which irritates the bronchial tubes. I’m hoping we don’t have to go back on prednisone, because he’s now off–but he’s still blowing in his yellow zone.  It’s borderline yellow/green–but I’d like him to get back to Intal only, not Intal and Ventolin, as we’ve been doing to manage the attack. jrw

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280 is panic time??? Wow, I don’t get worried until I am down below 200. Sharre T.

It depends on what your personal best is.  Obviously if your personal best is 600, your normal lung capicity is more than someone whose personal best is 400. Kim

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I went to the doctor’s again today since I have been in my yellow zone since the 7th despite increased FloVent (from 1000 mcg to 2000 mcg daily).  A side effect of the FloVent has been thrush so he prescribed medication for that and Prednisone. Funny, I was rinsing after each FloVent inhalation, using tea tree oil toothpaste and using my spacer but still developed thrush! Perhaps I’m a little run down?  I mentioned this to the doctor and he said I should call him Thurs to let him know how I was doing and if things were not improving then he would run some blood tests.  Isn’t asthma fun?  Even when you do everything you are supposed to, things can still go wrong. Janine

Yep, that’s true.   I would suggest that instead of using a tea tree oil toothpaste you use a tea tree oil mouth wash.  You can gargle with it and get the areas of your throat that a toothpast will miss.  Also swishing it around your mouth will cover areas the toothpaste would miss. Hang in there. Sometimes, as you said, you do everything right and things still go wrong. Loki

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I would suggest that instead of using a tea tree oil toothpaste you use a tea tree oil mouth wash.  You can gargle with it and get the areas of your throat that a toothpast will miss.  Also swishing it around your mouth will cover areas the toothpaste would miss.

I’m not familiar with tea tree oil.  Is it an antispetic of some sort? Anyway, I use a standard antispetic mouthwash for the same purpose.  It may not be ‘natural’ but it seems to  do the job just fine (and is probably a lot less expensive).

Response:

I would suggest that instead of using a tea tree oil toothpaste you use a tea tree oil mouth wash.  You can gargle with it and get the areas of your throat that a toothpast will miss.  Also swishing it around your mouth will cover areas the toothpaste would miss. I’m not familiar with tea tree oil.  Is it an antispetic of some sort?

It is an essential oil that has antiseptic and antifungal properties. As an antiseptic it’s ok.  I use it on minor things like paper cuts.  As an antifungal it is extremely good. Anyway, I use a standard antispetic mouthwash for the same purpose.  It may not be ‘natural’ but it seems to  do the job just fine (and is probably a lot less expensive).

As long as it works, that’s all that matters.  I used just plain water for a long time.  I’ve started using the tea tree oil mouthwash mostly because I had begun to get thrush no matter how thoroughly I rinsed.  It seems to be doing the job (at least for now). I’m sure your mouthwash tastes better than mine anyway.  Tea tree oil isn’t exactly the most appetizing thing in the world even when masked with spearmint oil (as mine is).   Oh, I do believe you are correct about the cost.  Someone who is adventurous might try just adding a drop of tea tree oil to their regular mouthwash but I’m uncertain of the correct dilution for that purpose so I wouldn’t.  (I could go do the research but I’m in a hurry.) Now, if you need the dilution for shampoo (dandruff), that I can give you.  <chuckle Loki

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One more note about tea tree–as with any herbal remedy, be cautious with it.  My niece is allergic to it, as she discovered to her horror when she used it on a skin inflammation and made it WORSE.  I may be a bit sensitive to it as well, as I’ve found it irritating to some of the things I’ve tried to treat with it, and pretty much ineffective for me.  Your mileage may vary, but do be careful in testing it. Tea tree oil is also sometimes called "ti tree oil". I understand the tree itself, which was imported into Florida, has become a pest there and is displacing native plants.  Maybe if someone turned Floridians on to the market for the stuff, they’d harvest the interloper trees and the price would go down.  ;-) My sympathies for those who get thrush from Azmacort or other inhalers. Apparently following my doctor’s recommendation of rinsing my mouth (or just drinking something) after use has been enough to prevent it in my case. Kiwi Carlisle

Response:

280 is panic time??? Wow, I don’t get worried until I am down below 200. I only use ventolin, and five mgs methylprenisolone with an antibiotic if I get an infection. I have never really understood peak flow numbers. I didn’t even own one for the first three years of my asthma.  Once when I got an infection that went too long before I got my refill for prednisone, I blew 95.  THEN I was panicked.  I am a half an hour from the hospital. The doctor keeps telling me that there are no definite numbers.  I keep wondering why the hell I have the meter. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all… I talked to my doctor on Thursday after trying to get my PEFs up out of the yellow for the past two weeks.  Despite prednisone, they were still in the yellow.  He referred me back to my specialist who I saw this afternoon at the end of his day. The first few minutes of the visit were disasterous!  I told him that my peak flows were down and he commented that "You are obsessed with you peak flows, we have worse cases of asthma than this…go down to spirometry."  I was stunned, since any other time I had dealt with him there had been no problem.  I went down to spirometry, and the first try produced severe chest tightness and pain.  The respirologist immediately left to talk to the specialist, then came back and asked if I would be ok to try again.  I managed to get through two more tries.  The last two loops could easily fit within the first loop as they were quite a bit smaller.  This was under the influence of prednisone and Bricanyl (within 1 hr of the test).  I headed back to the examining room while he looked over my results.  When he returned, his attitude was significantly changed.  Now he was extremely interested in my peak flow chart and commented that he hadn’t realized that I had been this bad for this long. He said that the FloVent was not depositing in my lungs so he has now put me on Pulmicort turbuhaler (400 ug) and he replaced my SereVent with Foradil aerolizer. He also gave me a renewable prescription for prednisone (5 mg) with instructions to use 4 tablets if my PEF drops to 280.  I now have to go back in three weeks, sooner if things don’t settle down.  He said I definitely had a viral infection which caused my peak flows to drop but I didn’t feel "sick" so I’m still wondering about this.  What I found so interesting was his change in attitude and I am left wondering why the change.  I definitely will make sure that my next visit with him is not at the end of the day though. — Janine

Sharre T.                          Truth is infinite; therefore,                      Truth cannot be known in finite terms                                           – Joel Goldsmith

Response:

Hi all… <snip if things don’t settle down.  He said I definitely had a viral infection which caused my peak flows to drop but I didn’t feel "sick" so I’m still wondering about this.

<snip I feel that quite a low-grade viral infection which I wouldn’t have noticed before asthma, or which would have lead to a slight drippy nose, can affect my chest or possibly increase my sensativity to chemical smells, such as toilet cleaner, which seem to make my asthma worse. — Surfer! http://www.nevis-vieww.demon.co.uk Hopeful anti-spam: alter double ‘w’ to single ‘w’ to view site & send Email.

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Aloha Daltons, I do not specifically about serotonin.  But… After several years of prednisone use I now have a bone density LOSS of about 35% per Dexascan.  No one knew?? the dangers when I started the drug in 1988. It can change,  mood, body weight (moon face), and other not so good side effects.  Avoid when you can and use very carefully.  According to an Endocrinologist sp?, steroids can affect bone density in one year or less. Mele Kaliki Maka, Merry Christmas to All, Edmund, Kauai, HI I have agressivness/anger/mood problems with prednisone in a major way.  This is the most problematic side effect for me.  :(

Yeah, it can do that too. See PI Precaution: http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/pred.htm#sect-Precautions Excerpt: "Precautions: General Precautions The lowest possible dose of corticosteroid should be used to control the condition under treatment, and when reduction in dosage is possible, the reduction should be gradual. Psychic derangements may appear when corticosteroids are used,  ranging from euphoria, insomnia, mood swings, personality  changes, and severe depression, to frank psychotic  manifestations. Also, existing emotional instability or  psychotic tendencies may be aggravated by corticosteroids." I try to stay away from oral steroids like prednisone; have been able to control exacerbations with very high dose inhaled steroids, which is still much less steroid than prednisone, since its targeted to the lungs. So I double, triple, or if necessary quadruple my inhaled steroids during exacerbation (per Action Plan) Note–Oral steroids probably needed for peak flows below 50% of personal best. Ellis

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Aloha Daltons, I do not specifically about serotonin.  But… After several years of prednisone use I now have a bone density LOSS of about 35% per Dexascan.  No one knew?? the dangers when I started the drug in 1988. It can change,  mood, body weight (moon face), and other not so good side effects.  Avoid when you can and use very carefully.  According to an Endocrinologist sp?, steroids can affect bone density in one year or less. Mele Kaliki Maka, Merry Christmas to All, Edmund, Kauai, HI

I have agressivness/anger/mood problems with prednisone in a major way.  This is the most problematic side effect for me.  :(  

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Hi all  :) Anyone know the effect prednisone has on serotonin levels?

Response:

Aloha Daltons, I do not specifically about serotonin.  But… After several years of prednisone use I now have a bone density LOSS of about 35% per Dexascan.  No one knew?? the dangers when I started the drug in 1988. It can change,  mood, body weight (moon face), and other not so good side effects.  Avoid when you can and use very carefully.  According to an Endocrinologist sp?, steroids can affect bone density in one year or less. Mele Kaliki Maka, Merry Christmas to All, Edmund, Kauai, HI

Response:

Anyone know the effect prednisone has on serotonin levels?

I don’t know about serotonin interactions. Here’s a link to PI: http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/pred.htm prednisone Excerpts: "Adverse Reactions: Neurological: Increased intracranial pressure with papilledema  (pseudo-tumor cerebri) usually after treatment; Convulsions;  Vertigo; Headache Endocrine: Menstrual irregularities; Development of Cushingoid state; Secondary adrenocortical and pituitary unresponsiveness, particularly in times of stress, as in trauma,  surgery or illness; Suppression of growth in children; Decreased carbohydrate tolerance; Manifestations of latent  diabetes mellitus; Increased requirements for insulin or  oral hypoglycemic agents in diabetics Ophthalmic: Posterior subcapsular cataracts; Increased  intraocular pressure; Glaucoma; Exophthalmos" Copyright 1998 – Mosby Inc. – Mosby’s GenRx Many asthmatics on oral steroids have been able to switch to High Dose inhaled steroids like Pulmicort or Flovent 220, which results in a smaller systemic dose. Ellis

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Question:

Does anyone else find doctor visits nerve wracking and depressing, especially when you have to go because you’re feeling worse?

Oh YES! I think it comes after years of having hope built up and then shattered. I also worry that the doctors are as frustrated with me as *I* am. I worry they will send me to psychiatry. ((((((Elahn One))))))) Debbie <<

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Does anyone else find doctor visits nerve wracking and depressing, especially when you have to go because you’re feeling worse?

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Yes, and also add to that extremely frustrating when you feel that they are saying to themseles, I wish this person would just go away, we are running out of options… Kristen Leigh

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Yes, and also add to that extremely frustrating when you feel that they are saying to themseles, I wish this person would just go away, we are running out of options… Kristen Leigh

Some of you may know my long saga with my HMO and the hospital I work with. I won’t repeat it here, but my primary care doc, who also happens to be the first person to treat my asthma years ago has really turned on me.  I tried a few other primary docs within the group I have to choose from and had such horrid experiences, that I finally went back to my old doc.  He knows I changed around on him and he has been a real pill this last few months even when calling for routine refills on prescriptions. A few months ago, I called to schedule an appointment to discuss taking up scuba diving.  He would not even see me. He just had his nurse call back and say "Absolutely NOT!  No one with asthma should scuba dive."  I have since found out this is an old school of thought and I "might" be able to take it up. Then, I called for a refill on Serevent and Flovent – my asthma meds and just asked if I could try Singulair instead as I had heard it was better for migraine patients.  He said "You heard wrong."  No explanations.   Now I would really like to go in and discuss a trial of Topamax instead of waiting for my insurance change to take effect later this year which will allow me to go to a doctor that I choose.  My migraines are escalating once again and I am absolutely terrified of talking to this guy.  He is the gatekeeper for any referrals I might get.  The only neuro he is allowed to refer me to is a buddy of his that put me on Depakote and kept upping the dose in spite of my saying the tremors were getting bad.  He never once mentioned checking liver function tests.  Finally during a scheduled appointment that he was called away on, another neuro in the group caught the Depakote problem  and took me off it – naturally, she has since left the group and moved out of state – due to difference of opinion. I hate this feeling of knowing my doctor thinks I am a total waste of his time.  He sighs and shakes his head and the last time I was in his office was when he told me I was just depressed and he could not help me.  I have since been told differently by a psychiatrist and counselor I went to because of this doctor visit.  I feel so helpless and I hate it. Red

Response:

Red: I really feel for you.  So sorry you’re having to go through all this. Doctors can be such jerks at times. A necessary evil.  I think they get insecure when we know more than they do. I will say a special prayer for you tonight. Take Care. Love, Caroline.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yes, and also add to that extremely frustrating when you feel that they are saying to themseles, I wish this person would just go away, we are running out of options… Kristen Leigh Some of you may know my long saga with my HMO and the hospital I work with. I won’t repeat it here, but my primary care doc, who also happens to be the first person to treat my asthma years ago has really turned on me.  I tried a few other primary docs within the group I have to choose from and had such horrid experiences, that I finally went back to my old doc.  He knows I changed around on him and he has been a real pill this last few months even when calling for routine refills on prescriptions. A few months ago, I called to schedule an appointment to discuss taking up scuba diving.  He would not even see me. He just had his nurse call back and say "Absolutely NOT!  No one with asthma should scuba dive."  I have since found out this is an old school of thought and I "might" be able to take it up. Then, I called for a refill on Serevent and Flovent – my asthma meds and just asked if I could try Singulair instead as I had heard it was better for migraine patients.  He said "You heard wrong."  No explanations. Now I would really like to go in and discuss a trial of Topamax instead of waiting for my insurance change to take effect later this year which will allow me to go to a doctor that I choose.  My migraines are escalating once again and I am absolutely terrified of talking to this guy.  He is the gatekeeper for any referrals I might get.  The only neuro he is allowed to refer me to is a buddy of his that put me on Depakote and kept upping the dose in spite of my saying the tremors were getting bad.  He never once mentioned checking liver function tests.  Finally during a scheduled appointment that he was called away on, another neuro in the group caught the Depakote problem  and took me off it – naturally, she has since left the group and moved out of state – due to difference of opinion. I hate this feeling of knowing my doctor thinks I am a total waste of his time.  He sighs and shakes his head and the last time I was in his office was when he told me I was just depressed and he could not help me.  I have since been told differently by a psychiatrist and counselor I went to because of this doctor visit.  I feel so helpless and I hate it. Red

Response:

Many a patient is better informed and actually smarter than their doctor(s). They’re probably afraid of being manipulated on some level.

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One of the things that vexes me the most about doctor visits is the lectures they give me when I have to cancel an appt due to a raging (10+) migraine….they always tell me that that’s the best time to come in. They don’t seem to understand that when the pain reaches that level, the thought of being jostled about in a car for 20 minutes, only to wait for over 2 hours in a loud brightly lit room, to see the doc for 15 minutes can exacerbate the pain to the point where I want to cry or scream or collapse and puke my guts out. And considering how stressful and infuriorating doc visits can be, that’s the last thing I need at such a point. Raven "Don’t think of it as dying, think of it as leaving early to avoid the rush."

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Why do they think it’s a good time to go in?  I always feel like my dr is vexed with me because I can’t focus on the question and I give fuzzy answers, and then I can’t remember most of the visit anyway.  Seems like a waste of both of our times.  Oh and there is the lovely "shining of the pen light in your eyes thingy!"  I’m with you Raven. Dawn – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – One of the things that vexes me the most about doctor visits is the lectures they give me when I have to cancel an appt due to a raging (10+) migraine….they always tell me that that’s the best time to come in. They don’t seem to understand that when the pain reaches that level, the thought of being jostled about in a car for 20 minutes, only to wait for over 2 hours in a loud brightly lit room, to see the doc for 15 minutes can exacerbate the pain to the point where I want to cry or scream or collapse and puke my guts out. And considering how stressful and infuriorating doc visits can be, that’s the last thing I need at such a point. Raven "Don’t think of it as dying, think of it as leaving early to avoid the rush."

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I went to the ER once for a migraine cause it was the worst one I’ve ever had.  They gave me my first Imitrex injection.  I couldn’t take anything else because of the vomiting.  It was horrible.  Riding in the car, motion sickness added to the nausea.  Then when I got to the brightly lit hospital, there were babies crying…loud.  I was filling out paperwork FIRST before I could see the doc and I had to leave in the middle of the paperwork to go puke for the 3rd time!  Then I had to go back and finish the paperwork and I finally saw a doctor.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Why do they think it’s a good time to go in?  I always feel like my dr is vexed with me because I can’t focus on the question and I give fuzzy answers, and then I can’t remember most of the visit anyway. Seems like a waste of both of our times.  Oh and there is the lovely "shining of the pen light in your eyes thingy!"  I’m with you Raven. Dawn One of the things that vexes me the most about doctor visits is the lectures they give me when I have to cancel an appt due to a raging (10+) migraine….they always tell me that that’s the best time to come in. They don’t seem to understand that when the pain reaches that level, the thought of being jostled about in a car for 20 minutes, only to wait for over 2 hours in a loud brightly lit room, to see the doc for 15 minutes can exacerbate the pain to the point where I want to cry or scream or collapse and puke my guts out. And considering how stressful and infuriorating doc visits can be, that’s the last thing I need at such a point. Raven "Don’t think of it as dying, think of it as leaving early to avoid the rush."

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Question:

On 4/22/05 9:00 AM, in article 3csld4F6m22n…@individual.net, "Susan" <Su…@nothankyou.com

wrote: I think it’s helping, but if I get infected again, I’d like to know which abx I can use with the irrigator, instead of systemically?

Many doctors are switching to using the antibiotic via hydro pulse irrigation. You remove the thick mucus to get the abx in better contact with the bacteria too. If your doctor has any questions he can contact me directly.

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On 4/22/05 6:06 AM, in article 3csb6cF6kvuh…@individual.net, "Susan" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -<Su…@nothankyou.com

wrote: x-no-archive: yes Murray Grossan wrote: We regularly combine Astelin with a Steroid spray. Are you using Pulsatile irrigation? Thanks for the info, Murray.  Yes, I’m irrigating at least daily, using some SinoFresh now and then in the evening, now that tree pollen is out. I’m about to finish the Augmentin XR, and I still have only a very small, almost pea sized area of soreness in the inner corner of my browbone (it extended almost the length of my eye when I began abx). I don’t want to have to medicate again, this is the third round this year. I just went back to my old allergist and am finally injecting potent desensitization doses of my serum again; the new allergist was so cautious (as convention dictates) that the shots had no effect at all. I’m hoping that the dramatic relief I get from these shots will knock down the allergy/infection/asthma cycle.  I feel a lot less dizzy and weak today, having skipped Advair last night. What drug would my doctor need to rx if we wanted to try irrigating with an abx instead of using it orally?  The same one? Thanks again, Susan

If you are having a sinus – asthma cycle, the cause may be failure of your nasal cilia to remove biofilm with its bacteria. Ask your doctor if using pulsatile irrigation would be of benefit for you.

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On 4/21/05 7:21 AM, in article 3cpr7cF6nht7…@individual.net, "Susan" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -<Su…@nothankyou.com

wrote: x-no-archive: yes I have chronic sinusitis that is finally coming under control after a month of Augmentin XR and nasal irrigation daily.  I still have pn drip, though, and plenty of clear mucus. The reason I’ve become  very concerned is that this is now triggering asthma, something I’ve not suffered from in the past. I gave up steroid sprays years ago, thinking they might contribute to infections by immune suppression, but I have adverse reactions to Singulair, and maybe Advair, too (elevated bp). Does anyone here know if it’s safe and/or advisable to combine Astelin with occasional steroid nasal spray?  I’ve always gotten excellent results from the Astelin, so I’m not about to give it up. Susan

We regularly combine Astelin with a Steroid spray. Are you using Pulsatile irrigation?

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"Susan" <Su…@nothankyou.com

wrote in message

news:3cpr7cF6nht7qU1@individual.net…

x-no-archive: yes

(snip)

Does anyone here know if it’s safe and/or advisable to combine Astelin with occasional steroid nasal spray?  I’ve always gotten excellent results from the Astelin, so I’m not about to give it up. Susan

I’m not sure what benefit occasional steroid spray use would be, since steroid sprays take at least 3 repeated days of use to have any significant effect at all, and to truly work well, you would need to use them at least 1 squirt per side every day. btw- I use Flonase every day and Astelin almost every day – with no apparent negative effects.   AW

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Question:

We’re all here praying for you. That is great on the amount of water you drink. I’m lucky if I get 2 -8 oz glasses in. I’m working on it. Take care of yourself and tell those drs to take care of you too.

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I had a hysterectomy in 94, I was in my 30’s, best darn thing I ever did! The Dr asked me what I wanted done and I told him if it is bad remove it, if not leave it.  He gave me the strangest look.  I said, in other words Take out the Baby Carriage and leave the Play Pen!  I got to keep both my ovaries so no need for HRT. You will be great, and you will feel so much better.  I was sick for 2 years before the surgery.  God Bless.

Response:

Thank you everyone, I had a surprise TOM yuk  I feel gross too. I be around alot the week after next, while healing hugs everyone

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I had a hysterectomy in 94, I was in my 30’s, best darn thing I ever did! The Dr asked me what I wanted done and I told him if it is bad remove it, if not leave it.  He gave me the strangest look.  I said, in other words Take out the Baby Carriage and leave the Play Pen!  I got to keep both my ovaries so no need for HRT. You will be great, and you will feel so much better.  I was sick for 2 years before the surgery.  God Bless.

Response:

That’s great news, Erin!  One ovary does wonders.  : )  We’re still here…just give us a holler anytime!   (((hugs))) Doe – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Lot and Lotds of hugs t all of my friends here. I don’t know what i would do with out you guys, This group has been incredible. I went for my preop appointment, everything is going to be ok, he is taking everything but will leave 1 ovary so i won’t go into menopause.  Thanks guys when I am recovering I will be here alot.!!!! Erin I

Question:

Hi Wes, by my babysitter as a child. I too have no problem with my sex drive or getting an erection. I just orgasm less than a minute into sex & lose the desire to continue. I want to continue but the drive is no longer

Your sex drive seems OK. Have you tried an anti-depressants like Zoloft (Sertraline)? They can delay the orgasm. — FBI, CIA, KGB, Interpol, MIB, MI6… choke on this pal! Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

The best "lesson" I’ve never read. — Samy (France)

Response:

Everything which you posted was so true, I congratulate you Many years ago in a now outdated book called "Any Man Can" I learned that orgasm and ejaculation are NOT the same thing and that a guy can masturbate having multiple orgasms as long as he does not ejaculate. Just knowing that one can do this was a real shocker. The stop and start technique which you so very well described IS the way to multiple orgasms….and it works. For me it is not possible to do while having intercourse, because I really believe that "Mother Nature" intended us to ejaculate (as soon as possible) and reproduce. That IS what sex is really all about…..continued repopulation. I am interested in the ancient Celtics ad have read that groups of guys( cousins and brothers) stood around waiting their turn to have sex with the women…so any guy taking too long to "get it done" would most likely removed from the female. As an added interest since the "tribes" were brothers and cousins etc, any baby born would obviously look like every one else – fair skinned and lightish hair. This child would then be greatly accepted by the tribe regardless of its father. BOB

Response:

Fabulous answer, Fred . :::::::::standing ovation:::::::::::

Wes, First off, stop beating yourself up.  EVERY man, expecially young ones masturbate.  If someone tells you he doesn’t masturbate you can rest assured he’s lying (yes, even married men and old codgers like most of us on this newsgroup). From about 14, or whenever you reach puberty, through into the twenties, many masturbate daily or even several times a day. ALL MEN either fantasize about sexual situations or look at porno while they masturbate.   IT DOES NO HARM!  If you jack off too much, your body will make you slow down automatically because you’ll either get a sore dick or you just can’t get it up any more on that particular day.   What CAN happen is you can train yourself to come as quickly as possible while masturbating, either because you’re afraid of being caught doing it, you’re doing it when you don’t have much time, or you feel guilty about it.  When you start to have sex with a partner that quick-cum training can carry over and cause you to cum too quickly. As to not being able to get an erection again after you cum, that’s perfectly normal.  It’s called a "refactory period", and the amount of time before you can get an erection again varies greatly between individuals.  The older you get, the longer it takes before you can get another erection.  It’s very rare to find a man who can get an erection again right away after cumming, or avoid losing it at all. Supposedly some young teens can, but I believe that ability fades quickly. There are some things you can do to avoid this Premature Ejaculation (that’s the proper name for it). One is to masturbate before you expect to have sex (far enough ahead of time to get through the refactory period). You should be able to last longer on the second go-around after masturbating earlier.  Some recommend pulling out when you feel it coming, but before you reach the point of no return and having your _partner_ (not yourself) squeeze hard on the head of your penis.  Some recommend trying to think of something else during sex; preferably something you don’t particularly like, to take your mind off it (although this seems to me like it’d take a lot of the pleasure out of sex).  You can also be sure to wear a heavy duty condom and maybe get and use some desensitizing cream, (Prolong is one trade name)  You can get it at a pharmacy or a sex shop.  Be sure to put the cream on and then use a condom on top of it or you’ll desensitize your partner as well. The long term solution is to retrain yourself to lay back and enjoy sex for the great feelings of the slow buildup leading eventually to orgasm, without any sense of urgency.  You can do this with SLOW masturbation to EVENTUAL orgasm, which will have the added bonus of relieving some of the sexul tension and horniness which contribute to your cumming too quickly.   Extended mutual foreplay with your girlfriend, having her stop stimulation when you feel you’re near the edge, can also help. Concentrate on her feelings rather than your own, and try to get her to orgasm either orally, manually or both as many times as you can before you enter. A woman’s centers of sexual pleasure include the vagina only incidentally and she can get as much or more pleasure from stimulation of her clitoris, breasts and nipples, inner thighs, ears, neck, anus (stroke it lightly with a moistened finger or use your tongue), lips, buttocks, feet,  and any other areas she points out (Ask her.  Do the things she says she likes and avoid those she doesn’t.).  Don’t overlook the value of holding, hugging, kissing and just general caressing. To me, at least, there’s nothing that’s as much of a turnon as  giving my wife a series of screaming, out of control orgasms. There’s also a masturbation technique you could try to train yourself not to cum so quickly: First, you need to masturbate when you can take your time and really enjoy the sensations without the possibility of being disturbed.   Lay back on the bed, use some good lube like KY jelly or Astroglide and handle your penis very lightly all over with the fingertips of both hands just enough to maintain your erection. Keep a cup of warm water handy to remoisten the lube from time to time. If you feel yourself getting too close, stop for awhile until the sensation slacks off, then begin again. The idea is to make the good sensations last as long as possible without ejaculating.  Don’t use your fist, just the tips of your fingers lightly stroking the underside of the shaft, your balls, and  your inner thighs. Run a finger lightly from your anus up over your balls to the tip of your penis several times.  Relax and concentrate on the sensations and nothing else. You should be able to go on as long as you like this way, without ejaculating.  When you decide it’s time to cum, increase the tempo and pressure just enough to bring yourself slowly to orgasm. Don’t beat it frantically.. remember there’s no urgency. In the future, try to avoid masturbating when you’re hurried for any reason, or there’s a possiblilty you might be disturbed by someone intruding on your solitude. Use this technique as often as the opportunity presents itself, and you should find that you’ll learn a lot more self control, as well as enjoying sex more.  Using the extended foreplay techniques on your partner will make your sex last longer and give you both more satisfaction, even if you’re never able to lengthen the duration of actual intercourse. Good Luck!

Response:

I waz wondering if Yu had any progress with any of the suggestions in curing yur problem? & if so, what did Yu use to cure it? My name is Wes & I am only 19 years old. I too am experiencing some dysfunction of my erection. But I think I brought it on myself. I have had a difficult past where I constantly masturbated & was obsessed with poronography. I masturbated consistently for atleast more than 5 years average. I was molested, not sexually abused, but touched by my babysitter as a child. I too have no problem with my sex drive or getting an erection. I just orgasm less than a minute into sex & lose the desire to continue. I want to continue but the drive is no longer there. My X-girlfriend wants to help me by practicing with me & I tied but it just doesn’t work. I sometimes/most of the time, find myself getting aroused or having sexual thoughts the moment I get close to, hugging, or even sitting next to my girlfriend. I feel like my mind is perverted & my life is over. I try to exercise, I’ve thought about viagra but I didn’t think I could get a hold of it b/c of my young age. I figured it was for people up in age. I’ve thought about getting some type of surgery in the future when I came across enough money but I heard of certain cancers that can be acquired or side affects. There are so many different inventions that say they’re the best. I haven’t tried anything yet or seen a Therapist/Urologist/Whatever. I’m just investigating my options. I’ve now heard of: cock rings, penile injections, caverjet/ject, Paroxetine, Tri-mix, Stud 100, Sildenafil Citrate Loxanges, Yohimbine, & Herbal Viagra. I’m sorry to have written so much but Yu understand the seriousness of this subject. I’m in need of Help. juslt like Yu, I’m very interested in a sex life. I’m only 19. If Yuhave any ideas or opinions please respond. Thank Yu so much for Yur time, & I hope anyone with the same problem overcomes their discomfort. — Posted via Talkway – http://www.talkway.com Exchange ideas on practically anything ™.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I waz wondering if Yu had any progress with any of the suggestions in curing yur problem? & if so, what did Yu use to cure it? My name is Wes & I am only 19 years old. I too am experiencing some dysfunction of my erection. But I think I brought it on myself. I have had a difficult past where I constantly masturbated & was obsessed with poronography. I masturbated consistently for atleast more than 5 years average. I was molested, not sexually abused, but touched by my babysitter as a child. I too have no problem with my sex drive or getting an erection. I just orgasm less than a minute into sex & lose the desire to continue. I want to continue but the drive is no longer there. My X-girlfriend wants to help me by practicing with me & I tied but it just doesn’t work. I sometimes/most of the time, find myself getting aroused or having sexual thoughts the moment I get close to, hugging, or even sitting next to my girlfriend. I feel like my mind is perverted & my life is over. I try to exercise, I’ve thought about viagra but I didn’t think I could get a hold of it b/c of my young age. I figured it was for people up in age. I’ve thought about getting some type of surgery in the future when I came across enough money but I heard of certain cancers that can be acquired or side affects. There are so many different inventions that say they’re the best. I haven’t tried anything yet or seen a Therapist/Urologist/Whatever. I’m just investigating my options. I’ve now heard of: cock rings, penile injections, caverjet/ject, Paroxetine, Tri-mix, Stud 100, Sildenafil Citrate Loxanges, Yohimbine, & Herbal Viagra. I’m sorry to have written so much but Yu understand the seriousness of this subject. I’m in need of Help. juslt like Yu, I’m very interested in a sex life. I’m only 19. If Yuhave any ideas or opinions please respond. Thank Yu so much for Yur time, & I hope anyone with the same problem overcomes their discomfort.

Wes, First off, stop beating yourself up.  EVERY man, expecially young ones masturbate.  If someone tells you he doesn’t masturbate you can rest assured he’s lying (yes, even married men and old codgers like most of us on this newsgroup). From about 14, or whenever you reach puberty, through into the twenties, many masturbate daily or even several times a day. ALL MEN either fantasize about sexual situations or look at porno while they masturbate.   IT DOES NO HARM!  If you jack off too much, your body will make you slow down automatically because you’ll either get a sore dick or you just can’t get it up any more on that particular day.   What CAN happen is you can train yourself to come as quickly as possible while masturbating, either because you’re afraid of being caught doing it, you’re doing it when you don’t have much time, or you feel guilty about it.  When you start to have sex with a partner that quick-cum training can carry over and cause you to cum too quickly. As to not being able to get an erection again after you cum, that’s perfectly normal.  It’s called a "refactory period", and the amount of time before you can get an erection again varies greatly between individuals.  The older you get, the longer it takes before you can get another erection.  It’s very rare to find a man who can get an erection again right away after cumming, or avoid losing it at all. Supposedly some young teens can, but I believe that ability fades quickly. There are some things you can do to avoid this Premature Ejaculation (that’s the proper name for it). One is to masturbate before you expect to have sex (far enough ahead of time to get through the refactory period). You should be able to last longer on the second go-around after masturbating earlier.  Some recommend pulling out when you feel it coming, but before you reach the point of no return and having your _partner_ (not yourself) squeeze hard on the head of your penis.  Some recommend trying to think of something else during sex; preferably something you don’t particularly like, to take your mind off it (although this seems to me like it’d take a lot of the pleasure out of sex).  You can also be sure to wear a heavy duty condom and maybe get and use some desensitizing cream, (Prolong is one trade name)  You can get it at a pharmacy or a sex shop.  Be sure to put the cream on and then use a condom on top of it or you’ll desensitize your partner as well. The long term solution is to retrain yourself to lay back and enjoy sex for the great feelings of the slow buildup leading eventually to orgasm, without any sense of urgency.  You can do this with SLOW masturbation to EVENTUAL orgasm, which will have the added bonus of relieving some of the sexul tension and horniness which contribute to your cumming too quickly.   Extended mutual foreplay with your girlfriend, having her stop stimulation when you feel you’re near the edge, can also help. Concentrate on her feelings rather than your own, and try to get her to orgasm either orally, manually or both as many times as you can before you enter. A woman’s centers of sexual pleasure include the vagina only incidentally and she can get as much or more pleasure from stimulation of her clitoris, breasts and nipples, inner thighs, ears, neck, anus (stroke it lightly with a moistened finger or use your tongue), lips, buttocks, feet,  and any other areas she points out (Ask her.  Do the things she says she likes and avoid those she doesn’t.).  Don’t overlook the value of holding, hugging, kissing and just general caressing. To me, at least, there’s nothing that’s as much of a turnon as  giving my wife a series of screaming, out of control orgasms. There’s also a masturbation technique you could try to train yourself not to cum so quickly: First, you need to masturbate when you can take your time and really enjoy the sensations without the possibility of being disturbed.   Lay back on the bed, use some good lube like KY jelly or Astroglide and handle your penis very lightly all over with the fingertips of both hands just enough to maintain your erection. Keep a cup of warm water handy to remoisten the lube from time to time. If you feel yourself getting too close, stop for awhile until the sensation slacks off, then begin again. The idea is to make the good sensations last as long as possible without ejaculating.  Don’t use your fist, just the tips of your fingers lightly stroking the underside of the shaft, your balls, and  your inner thighs. Run a finger lightly from your anus up over your balls to the tip of your penis several times.  Relax and concentrate on the sensations and nothing else. You should be able to go on as long as you like this way, without ejaculating.  When you decide it’s time to cum, increase the tempo and pressure just enough to bring yourself slowly to orgasm. Don’t beat it frantically.. remember there’s no urgency. In the future, try to avoid masturbating when you’re hurried for any reason, or there’s a possiblilty you might be disturbed by someone intruding on your solitude. Use this technique as often as the opportunity presents itself, and you should find that you’ll learn a lot more self control, as well as enjoying sex more.  Using the extended foreplay techniques on your partner will make your sex last longer and give you both more satisfaction, even if you’re never able to lengthen the duration of actual intercourse. Good Luck! -Fred- Visit Fred’s Page of Impotence Information and ASI FAQ’s at: http://www.chesco.com/~fps/index.html

Response:

You have no problems, young man!  You are just confused and you someone, perhaps a psychologist-sex-therapist to straighten you out.

Response:

You might take comfort in that fact that you’re not much different than thousand of others. I’m not sure what operation you were talking about. Circumcision? I’ve heard it said that the uncircumcised are very sensitive. There’s a lot of discussion going on about circumcision. Whether is mutilation or not. I would suggest you try some of those desensitizing chemicals. And yes, see a urologist. There’s no age limit to ED or PE. Jerry of ASI I waz wondering if Yu had any progress with any of the suggestions in curing yur problem? & if so, what did Yu use to cure it? My name is Wes & I am only 19 years old. I too am experiencing some dysfunction of my erection. But I think I brought it on myself. I have had a difficult past where I constantly masturbated & was obsessed with poronography. I masturbated consistently for atleast more than 5 years average. I was molested, not sexually abused, but touched by my babysitter as a child. I too have no problem with my sex drive or getting an erection. I just orgasm less than a minute into sex & lose the desire to continue. I want to continue but the drive is no longer there. My X-girlfriend wants to help me by practicing with me & I tied but it just doesn’t work. I sometimes/most of the time, find myself getting aroused or having sexual thoughts the moment I get close to, hugging, or even sitting next to my girlfriend. I feel like my mind is perverted & my life is over. I try to exercise, I’ve thought about viagra but I didn’t think I could get a hold of it b/c of my young age. I figured it was for people up in age. I’ve thought about getting some type of surgery in the future when I came across enough money but I heard of certain cancers that can be acquired or side affects. There are so many different inventions that say they’re the best. I haven’t tried anything yet or seen a Therapist/Urologist/Whatever. I’m just investigating my options. I’ve now heard of: cock rings, penile injections, caverjet/ject, Paroxetine, Tri-mix, Stud 100, Sildenafil Citrate Loxanges, Yohimbine, & Herbal Viagra. I’m sorry to have written so much but Yu understand the seriousness of this subject. I’m in need of Help. juslt like Yu, I’m very interested in a sex life. I’m only 19. If Yuhave any ideas or opinions please respond. Thank Yu so much for Yur time, & I hope anyone with the same problem overcomes their discomfort. — Posted via Talkway – http://www.talkway.com Exchange ideas on practically anything ™.

Response:

Question:

Hi everyone, I have not posted to your group in a very long time. I have lost my support group and need your support in dealing with my GAD and life as a fellow sufferer. I have been suffering from GAD for over 3 yr. now and have been under treatment for about 1 and a half years. It’s been a long strange trip indeed Currently I am taking Prozac and Knoplin (misspelled I know) and am having moderate success. I have tried many alternative medicines and pharmaceuticals in dealing with this disease and am anxious to share with the group and get feedback. Feel free to talk to me about anything or get on my ICQ list my ICQ number is 4058408. I would love to share information. Peace, lunarchld

Response:

. Feel free to talk to me about anything or get on my ICQ list my ICQ number is 4058408. I would love to share information.

Hmmmm, never considered our ICQ numbers…….mine is 1569491….anyone else have ICQ numbers to share?? KC

Response:

Hmmmm, never considered our ICQ numbers…….mine is 1569491….anyone else have ICQ numbers to share?? KC What are ICQ numbers? I am really dumb on this one. Yes I would like to share information anyway I can. Lol no disrespect it’s that you blew me away with this one. Warmest Regards Bonnie

Bonnie…..I’ll send you the ICQ program…..just run it while you are already online with AOL…..ICQ is just another communication form……you can see at a glance who is online, send quick messages like IM’s to people with other servers, and chat with people from other servers so you aren’t confined to AOL chat rooms.  And the sound waves are cute! Anyone wanting the little program to run ICQ, drop me your e-mail address and I’ll send the program.  I THINK it’s free…..I’ve had it about 6 months and it was when I logged on. Just send me your e-mail address and I’ll forward the program to you. KC

Response:

. Feel free to talk to me about anything or get on my ICQ list my ICQ number is 4058408. I would love to share information. Hmmmm, never considered our ICQ numbers…….mine is 1569491….anyone else have ICQ numbers to share?? KC

okay, i’m in my ICQ # is 2714295. Just be sure to put ASAP on your request this is a great idea y’all

Response:

. Feel free to talk to me about anything or get on my ICQ list my ICQ number is 4058408. I would love to share information. Hmmmm, never considered our ICQ numbers…….mine is 1569491….anyone else have ICQ numbers to share?? KC

Yeah Cindy, as a matter of fact, I have it written down, somewhere, uuuhhhmmm, where is it??? Oh yes, here it is: 3206250 I have only one problem: I don’t have a clue what I can do with this Now I only hope you don’t come to visit me at night and do spooky things…… bye, Trudy the netherlands Remove "xx" from address when replying.

Response:

as a matter of fact, I have it written down, somewhere, uuuhhhmmm, where is it??? Oh yes, here it is: 3206250

next time you are online Trudy, find the ICQ program and run it. Then "connect"…….you CHOOSE who you want to chat to, or send instant messages to. for instance……if you are online right now reading this…..you might hear a little voice say……"incoming message"…..then you click on receive, and it could be me sending a message to you while I’m online at the same time! I could also initiate a "chat" mode with you…..where a screen comes up and we can talk back and forth in real time.  As I type my message, the letters come up on your screen!!!  And you can answer immediately too! I’m a computer flunky, and if I can figure it out, ANYONE can.  Jus tmake sure you run your program WHILE YOU ARE ALREADY ONLINE WITH YOUR ISP. I’ll add you to my list Trudy and you’ll get a system message! KC Cindy

Response:

Spike, as others, I appreciate all the effort your putting in for me. Thank You Stephanie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jenwolf may be correct. If you think that is the case do this, off-line; reboot, go to dos, type this: netstat -anc:netstat.txt. press enter, type this: exit press enter, that gets things back to windows. Then look in windows and a file called netstat.txt will be there. (notepad) If you know about ports, check it yourself, if not mail the text to me. With your type of connection you have. I don’t think that is the case, however. Still this little thing is good to know. spike If you believe that someone else is posting to usenet and forging your return e-mail address on their posts, then you too can send a copy of the offending post (with complete headers) to their ISP (and to their NNTP-Posting-Host if they are different).  It is a violation of most ISP’s "acceptable use policy" or "terms of service" to forge someone else’s e-mail address. you might also want to check your machine for trojan horses. . .like netbus or subseven. they could be used to *easily* steal passwords and proceed to post or send email in the name of the person stolen from, *from* that person’s account(s). http://jenwolf.virtualave.net/

Response:

Jenwolf may be correct. If you think that is the case do this, off-line; reboot, go to dos, type this: netstat -anc:netstat.txt.

eh? no no no, you need to do netstat while you are *on* line. that way you can see who is connected to you or, if you’re fast enough who is sending you udp packets. as well as what ports are listening. some trojans listen on a certain port(s), which could be seen with an offline netstat, but i’ve never tried it. the easiest way, for someone who is not really in to the technicalities of networking, is to check the registry. hit the start button, then run, type in "regedit" and go to HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINESOFTWARE<MicrosoftWidowsCurrentVersionRun if there are any files there that end with exe, delete them. this will prevent the blasted thing from starting up every time you reboot. (or just exit the registry, use a virus cleaner to rid your system of them, reboot and check the registry again.) note the name of the file and then search the system for it and delete it. unfortunately there are a lot of rat trojans out there, so this may or may not work for all of them. the *best* way to be rid of the damned things is to lowlevel format the drive, most of the newer bios’ have a utility to do this, but it could be risky for certain hard drives. http://jenwolf.virtualave.net/

Response:

Some of these aliases are suspect as being one and the same person.

Half a dozen people in ASAP can vouch for La Chech. She’s one of the nicest people you’d ever want to meet. Karen – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Some of these aliases are suspect as being one and the same person.

well, let’s clear up one name…i am not the spammer.  i AM guilty of poor taste and displaying a bad temper…but since i used such poor judgement i have no doubt i am picked as a target…..  unfortunately, it took me about 5 tries with my smart buddy spike just to get the spam proof on my acct, and another 3 or 4 to get the sig line working….. the people in this ng (aar) do know me, and I would hope that even in light of my poor judgement a few might stand up to say that i did not do this aweful thing.  at least i hope so…. — If you can judge a wise man by the color of his skin,  then mister you

Question:

Frankly, you’d be nuts if you weren’t depressed by this state of affairs. Ask your doc about antidepressants. Mel Headcat (head…@headcat.com) wrote:

: Does anyone else experience "emotional" symptoms when their : allergies/sinusitis is acting up? I find that I get *extremely* : depressed (low-spirited, hopeless, negative, generally defeated-feeling) : when my allergies kick in. : : I was allergy-free until I turned 40, but after that I started to notice : stuffyness, sneezing, sore throat, etc. whenever I was outdoors for any : length of time. Each year it got a little worse and finally last summer : it seemed to really "blossom" – I had what seemed like a whopper cold : that lasted literally from April through September. I had hoped the : arrival of cold weather would clear things up, but instead it got worse : – the allergy stuffyness/sneezing/etc. eased seamlessly into what was : first diagnosed as bronchitis and later recognized as pneumonia; I spent : November and December in bed and am truly just starting to feel good : again. But the damn allergy stuff is starting all over again! I’ve : learned to stay indoors a lot and that helps, as do antihistamines, etc. : But I seem to notice that in addition to the standard stuff, I also feel : distinctly depressed whenever the allergy thing is in high gear. Has : anyone else noticed this in conjunction with allergies/sinusitis? Or am : I nuts as well as allergic? : : Any input from other allergy sufferers is most gratefully welcomed. This : stuff as me about at my wits end!! The doctors I saw for pneumonia said : the allergies wouldn’t have had anything to do with it, but I find that : hard to believe. Anyone else experienced anything similar? : : R.A. Butters : — Mel Billik in Michigan Remember: if you can keep your head about you when all around you are in a panic … perhaps you don’t totally understand the situation!

Response:

Headcat, Are you taking decongestants when your allergies act up? I find that decongestants of ANY kind make me depressed, and the longer I take them the worse it gets. Clare

Response:

I finally found a psychiatrist who diagnosed my depression and related it to an early start with chronic allergies and sinusitis.  I’m now 39 and have had 7 surgeries (maybe 6 – they all blend together).  I am also allergic to aspirin and have found that I can’t take Ibuprofen or ANYTHING except 650 mg. of tylenol/acetominophen. H

Response:

In article <338CAD05.7…@iname.com

, Clare <cl…@iname.com wrote: Headcat, Are you taking decongestants when your allergies act up? I find that decongestants of ANY kind make me depressed, and the longer I take them the worse it gets. Clare

I’d like to echo what Clare said…many decongestants even advise that they can cause negative symptoms…related to nervous irritation or anxiety. COnsistent or excessive use of thiese medications have made me feel "depressed" in the past. I’d sooner irrigate, take papaya, or use very limited amounts of a prescribed spray. (Livostin is my choice.)

Response:

Question:

The name "Slipper" ain’t a pet name.  It is a version of an old family name handed down over the years to the "chosen" ones who exhibited certain qualities.  "Slipper" is a Hebrew term for, "She who is great".  My great, great grandmother, also a chosen one,  was 1/2 American Indian and was called "She who is great", but in indian it was pronounced, "Spaz-twista-shake". That does not fit on contemporary birth certificates. Therefore it was shown in Hebrew, pronouced "Slipper". Yaw show some respect, okay! Jeeeeeeeeeeeeeese!!!!!! -Slipper

Thanks, Slipper.  I needed that …except it hurts to laugh!  You reminded me of a professor I had in grad school who had Parkinson’s. On those wonderful occassions when we would teach together, he would enter the room first with me trailing (and flailing). We would finally get to the front of the lecture hall and he’d introduce us.  "Hi. They call me ‘Old Shaky’ and this is my partner, ‘Spaz’." Shalom, Chana Mitzvah g’dolah l’hiyot b’simcha. "It is a great mitzvah to exist in a state of joy."

Response:

This is so cool.  Here I am, aspiring to become a writer; I answer a newsgroup post and now I’m gonna be in print all over!!!  And more than anything, I’ll have the ultimate "last word" on a multitude of physicians via my pals, the dystoniacs. The name "Slipper" ain’t a pet name.  It is a version of an old family name handed down over the years to the "chosen" ones who exhibited certain qualities.  "Slipper" is a Hebrew term for, "She who is great".  My great, great grandmother, also a chosen one,  was 1/2 American Indian and was called "She who is great", but in indian it was pronounced, "Spaz-twista-shake".  That does not fit on contemporary birth certificates. Therefore it was shown in Hebrew, pronouced "Slipper". Yaw show some respect, okay!  Jeeeeeeeeeeeeeese!!!!!! -Slipper

Response:

The name "Slipper" ain’t a pet name.  It is a version of an old family name handed down over the years to the "chosen" ones who exhibited certain qualities.  "Slipper" is a Hebrew term for, "She who is great".  My great, great grandmother, also a chosen one,  was 1/2 American Indian and was called "She who is great", but in indian it was pronounced, "Spaz-twista-shake". That does not fit on contemporary birth certificates. Therefore it was shown in Hebrew, pronouced "Slipper". Yaw show some respect, okay! Jeeeeeeeeeeeeeese!!!!!! -Slipper Thanks, Slipper.  I needed that …except it hurts to laugh!  You reminded me of a professor I had in grad school who had Parkinson=

’s. On those wonderful occassions when we would teach together, he would enter the room first with me trailing (and flailing). We wo= uld finally get to the front of the lecture hall and he’d introduce us.  "Hi. They call me ‘Old Shaky’ and this is my partner, ‘Spaz= ‘." Shalom, Chana Mitzvah g’dolah l’hiyot b’simcha. "It is a great mitzvah to exist in a state of joy."

Oh me…It is the Chana & Slipper show!!  How fun!  And Chana, your post also appeared as one long line on my server…it is only when I do a ‘post reply’ that your post and Slipper’s take on ‘normal’ form!!  Wonder if it is moi or yoi…<<<VBG MB

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Hi gang. Yes, I feel like I have found a "special" place.  I moved from VA to TX 2 years ago leaving behind family and friends that had been thru it all with me.  That was quite a loss and have been depressed since. (though my husband and daughter are wonderful ) Thanks for all your responses.  I have laughed and cried. I am sure you understand what a.s.d. means to me already. I had my botox shots last Wednesday (300 units) and dr. started me on Klonopin (1 mg). Sure hoping this helps my spasms which for some reason have gotten worse lately. Thanks again.  Talk to yall soon.    Bonnie

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 <SNIP…   Ahhh, but Roger has already warned Slipper of the infamous Mary Beth–NO FAIR, Roger!!!  Now I cannot pounce and be taken seriously <<VBG C’mon now MB! That’s "I cannot pounce OR be taken seriously!"

OOPS!!  Grammar check failed me…what to do, what to do?? Now I tell you, has anyone in any of the countries to which our group us ever taken an MB pounce seriously. (Slipper, it’s those innocent approaches you will have to watch.

John you know me too well!  Now Slipper will just be a lil devil and the Den Mom will have to grin and bear it.  What trouble you do cause, Sir John!! Giving MB the Slip<per I remain, Your humble servant  John  :-)

No, no…I raised your rank above =8-} – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

  <SNIP…       Ahhh, but Roger has already warned Slipper of the infamous Mary Beth–NO FAIR, Roger!!!  Now I cannot pounce and be taken seriously <<VBG

C’mon now MB! That’s "I cannot pounce OR be taken seriously!" Now I tell you, has anyone in any of the countries to which our group us ever taken an MB pounce seriously. (Slipper, it’s those innocent approaches you will have to watch. Giving MB the Slip<per I remain, Your humble servant   John  :-)

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Believe us when we say we have "superior intelligence".  You know how many doctors it takes to diagnosis dystonia? Ten: One to explain that doctors are not magicians; One to say that you have fribromyalgia; One to say you have slight scoliosis; One to say you have a headache and some endurance problems; One to say you have TMJ One to say you have a Benign Essential Tremor and rigidity; One to say you are suffering from a psychogenic disorder aka depression; Two to hold the neurological textbooks at the public library open for you while you diagnosis yourself using American Online’s Medline; And one to follow your instructions when you decide which medications you need to take. SLIPPER I thought I had read this somewhere before,then I seen the name in the address. Glad you found us. Everyone meet slipper. We have become friends through e-mail recently. Slipper meet the gang, just watch out for that Mary Beth. Good to see you have joined our online family. Roger

I LOVE THIS GROUP!!!!!!!  With Roger’s ‘Stamp of Approval’, this new one ‘Slipper’ has an easy road <<giggle Of course the fact that what was posted is completely Wonderful has something to do with it!  Like Chana, I have also printed it out to disperse among friends & doctors. Ahhh, but Roger has already warned Slipper of the infamous Mary Beth–NO FAIR, Roger!!!  Now I cannot pounce and be taken seriously <<VBG Anyhow, welcome Slipper, be ye male, female, or…well, OK I’ll say it… Slipper kinda sounds like a pet’s name, as in ‘here Slipper, Slipper’ Sorry Roger, you always bring out my ‘best’ side!! MB

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Believe us when we say we have "superior intelligence".  You know how many doctors it takes to diagnosis dystonia? Ten: One to explain that doctors are not magicians; One to say that you have fribromyalgia; One to say you have slight scoliosis; One to say you have a headache and some endurance problems; One to say you have TMJ One to say you have a Benign Essential Tremor and rigidity; One to say you are suffering from a psychogenic disorder aka depression; Two to hold the neurological textbooks at the public library open for you while you diagnosis yourself using American Online’s Medline; And one to follow your instructions when you decide which medications you need to take.

I LOVE THIS!!!  There is someone else out there who is brilliant and funny just like the rest of us!  We ARE a smart bunch, no? Chana P.S.  I’m sending a copy of this to my neurologist and family friend and physician.  I know that, at least, the latter will ROFL… Mitzvah g’dolah l’hiyot b’simcha. "It is a great mitzvah to exist in a state of joy."

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Believe us when we say we have "superior intelligence".  You know how many doctors it takes to diagnosis dystonia? Ten: One to explain that doctors are not magicians; One to say that you have fribromyalgia; One to say you have slight scoliosis; One to say you have a headache and some endurance problems; One to say you have TMJ One to say you have a Benign Essential Tremor and rigidity; One to say you are suffering from a psychogenic disorder aka depression; Two to hold the neurological textbooks at the public library open for you while you diagnosis yourself using American Online’s Medline; And one to follow your instructions when you decide which medications you need to take.

SLIPPER I thought I had read this somewhere before,then I seen the name in the address. Glad you found us. Everyone meet slipper. We have become friends through e-mail recently. Slipper meet the gang, just watch out for that Mary Beth. Good to see you have joined our online family. Roger

Response:

Believe us when we say we have "superior intelligence".  You know how many doctors it takes to diagnosis dystonia? Ten: One to explain that doctors are not magicians; One to say that you have fribromyalgia; One to say you have slight scoliosis; One to say you have a headache and some endurance problems; One to say you have TMJ One to say you have a Benign Essential Tremor and rigidity; One to say you are suffering from a psychogenic disorder aka depression; Two to hold the neurological textbooks at the public library open for you while you diagnosis yourself using American Online’s Medline; And one to follow your instructions when you decide which medications you need to take.

Response:

Hi! Bonnie I just read your post and I’m also excited about finding all this on my new computer.  I’m had Dystonia since I was a teenager and I am a NSTA support leader in Atlanta, Georgia.  I would love to correspond with you and maybe we could compare notes, this is a GREAT newsgroup and you will love it. Best wishes, Kathie

Response:

Welcome Bonnie! If you’ve got a sense of humor, you’ve found the right place!  As serious as we can be, most of us can find SOMEthing to laugh at! Have you thought of contacting your regional coordinator from the Dystonia Medical Research Foundation in starting a support group?=

  I’ve just come back from one of their conventions and we sure do have a lot to offer?  MB will pipe in with more information and h= I’m a bit older than yourself but just beginning my ‘relationship’ with the diagnosis of dystonia … even though I’ve had dystonia=

 since I can remember.  Personally, I think we were given ’superior intelligence’ to make up for our differences. <<grin Looking forward to hearing from you again. Chana Mitzvah g’dolah l’hiyot b’simcha. "It is a great mitzvah to exist in a state of joy."

Golly, I feel like I am being paged again!!  Yes, Chana, here I am at your service <<giggle Actually, Bonnie!  Chana has a wonderful point which I completely overlooked [I am really scattered presently].  There is a support group called the ‘Dallas-Fort Worth’ Support Group in Cedar Hill TX.  Leader is Patricia Foreman and her home # is 214 299-5715.  You might want to touch base with her OR the Regional Cordinator for that regon is Bill Rapp in New Orleans and Bill’s # is 504 254-2455.  Good Luck, Bonnie! MB

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Welcome Bonnie! If you’ve got a sense of humor, you’ve found the right place!  As serious as we can be, most of us can find SOMEthing to laugh at! I’m a bit older than yourself but just beginning my ‘relationship’ with the diagnosis of dystonia … even though I’ve had dystonia since I can remember.  Personally, I think we were given ’superior intelligence’ to make up for our differences. <<grin Looking forward to hearing from you again. Chana Mitzvah g’dolah l’hiyot b’simcha. "It is a great mitzvah to exist in a state of joy."

Response:

My name is Bonnie and have had dystonia since I was 18 (now 41).  I receive Botox injections (ST) also have problems with left foot and writers cramp with scolosis and degenerative disc disease. Whew!!! But keeping a positive attitude and a sense of humor is the only way to deal with this.  So glad I got a computer in Dec.; never expected to find anything when I typed in dystonia for web search ;boy, was I suprised. This is great.  Well, I could write a book of my experiences over the years.  Just wanted to say hello and this has been a godsend.  I have never encounted anyone else with dystonia; have joined NSTA and talked with my doctor yesterday about starting a support group in my area (Ft. Worth, TX).  She has other patients she is contacting for me anf if they are interested will give them my #.  I sure hope this works out.  If I can help any one, please do not hesitiate to post or e-mail me. Thanks and remember you are not alone.      Bonnie

Welcome Bonnie!!  We are so glad you have found us and are willing to post!  Another Texan…hmmmm, we are blessed with Canadians and Texans, aren’t we? Good luck with the support group…if ya happen to speak with either Jan Richter or Patricia Murray, say hi from Mary Beth (MB). And please keep posting, your experience is invaluable! TTYS, MB

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My name is Bonnie and have had dystonia since I was 18 (now 41).  I receive Botox injections (ST) also have problems with left foot and writers cramp with scolosis and degenerative disc disease. Whew!!! But keeping a positive attitude and a sense of humor is the only way to deal with this.  So glad I got a computer in Dec.; never expected to find anything when I typed in dystonia for web search ;boy, was I suprised. This is great.  Well, I could write a book of my experiences over the years.  Just wanted to say hello and this has been a godsend.  I have never encounted anyone else with dystonia; have joined NSTA and talked with my doctor yesterday about starting a support group in my area (Ft. Worth, TX).  She has other patients she is contacting for me anf if they are interested will give them my #.  I sure hope this works out.  If I can help any one, please do not hesitiate to post or e-mail me. Thanks and remember you are not alone.      Bonnie

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This is so cool.  Here I am, aspiring to become a writer; I answer a newsgroup post and now I’m gonna be in print all over!!!  And more than anything, I’ll have the ultimate "last word" on a multitude of physicians via my pals, the dystoniacs. The name "Slipper" ain’t a pet name.  It is a version of an old family name handed down over the years to the "chosen" ones who exhibited certain qualities.  "Slipper" is a Hebrew term for, "She who is great".  My great, great grandmother, also a chosen one,  was 1/2 American Indian and was called "She who is great", but in indian it was pronounced, "Spaz-twista-shake".  That does not fit on contemporary birth certificates. Therefore it was shown in Hebrew, pronouced "Slipper". Yaw show some respect, okay!  Jeeeeeeeeeeeeeese!!!!!! -Slipper

Oh Great Slipper, I would like to respectfully welcome you to the alt.support.dystonia news group on the part of those of us living in the maritime provinces:-) I am sure our charming Mary Beth Chan will be officially welcoming you shortly. Gene

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<<snip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Oh me…It is the Chana & Slipper show!!  How fun!  And Chana, your post also appeared as one long line on my server…it is only when I do a ‘post reply’ that your post and Slipper’s take on ‘normal’ form!!  Wonder if it is moi or yoi…<<<VBG MB MB I have the same problem.  I always find this very baffling as most of the post I can read on my screen but there are one or two that seem to go past the right hand margin.  Mally made a suggestion of what I should do but I have never been able to get it to work. Glad to have the company. Faye

If you are using Free Agent, try this: Click Options, then Posting, then pick the "General." tab.  There is a choice for Line length.  Choose 70, then click OK. Other newsreaders should have similar options. Jeff Jeff H.

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I am curious about your post itself…it came onto my server as one long line and then a line that appeared to be typed and typed over-top-of many times.  This happened to Chana’s posts too, still is on my server at least.  AOL is having more trouble?  Or what? Ideas anybody? In any case, no matter how your posts ‘look’, I really enjoy having you with us! MB

MB, I just finished describing this problem to Chana… I guess if others are having it too, I should redo it publically. The problem lies within the AOL newsreader.  It appears to not know how to insert a carraige return to wrap a line, and so those posting from AOL are indeed writing one *very* long line instead of a paragraph.  Those who can read the messages fine are using newsreaders that are able to fake-out the problem and wrap the lines to fit that user’s screen.  This is why some people are able to read these posting no problem but others are having troubles and seeing only one line. We need those using AOL to manually insert carriage returns when they come to the end of a line on their screen (and continue their sentence on the next line).  They will need to do this for every line of text for their whole posting as the problem will occur any time they don’t hit that ol’ "return" key. Other than that, people having troubles can see about any "line wrap" options in their own software that they can turn on when they come across a one-line AOL posting, or other means of justifying the message so it is readable in a paragraph format (such as saving the message and opening it up in another program such as a word processor.) Cathy. —  (—-)                                                     (—-)   "  "         http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~collisoc          "  "

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I have the same problem.  I always find this very baffling as most of the post I can read on my screen but there are one or two that seem to go past the right hand margin.  Mally made a suggestion of what I should do but I have never been able to get it to work. Glad to have the company. Faye

Someone mention my name?  Hi Faye!  <waving away at you Depending on what newsreader you’re using, search through your menu lists for "word wrap".  In Free Agent, if you click on that, it will stay "clicked" – a check mark will appear beside it.  Then any post that goes off the side of your screen will get "wrapped" automatically.  IOW, it will fit into the margins you have set in your default.  You may find that you will then half lines followed by "=" or some such weird little squiggles or symbols.  Just ignore those, they are the "line breaks" showing up as symbols.  Hokey? For those whose posts are too wide, check in your "Page Setup" for margins – usually found under "File".  Do this while you are in "Post" or "Reply" mode/screen. Mally  :)

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The name "Slipper" ain’t a pet name.  It is a version of an old family name handed down over the years to the "chosen" ones who exhibited certain qualities.  "Slipper" is a Hebrew term for, "She who is great".  My great, great grandmother, also a chosen one,  was 1/2 American Indian and was called "She who is great", but in indian it was pronounced, "Spaz-twista-shake". That does not fit on contemporary birth certificates. Therefore it was shown in Hebrew, pronouced "Slipper". Yaw show some respect, okay! Jeeeeeeeeeeeeeese!!!!!! -Slipper Thanks, Slipper.  I needed that …except it hurts to laugh!  You reminded me of a professor I had in grad school who had Parkinson= ’s. On those wonderful occassions when we would teach together, he would enter the room first with me trailing (and flailing). We wo= uld finally get to the front of the lecture hall and he’d introduce us.  "Hi. They call me ‘Old Shaky’ and this is my partner, ‘Spaz= ‘." Shalom, Chana Mitzvah g’dolah l’hiyot b’simcha. "It is a great mitzvah to exist in a state of joy." Oh me…It is the Chana & Slipper show!!  How fun!  And Chana, your post also appeared as one long line on my server…it is only when I do a ‘post reply’ that your post and Slipper’s take on ‘normal’ form!!  Wonder if it is moi or yoi…<<<VBG MB

MB I have the same problem.  I always find this very baffling as most of the post I can read on my screen but there are one or two that seem to go past the right hand margin.  Mally made a suggestion of what I should do but I have never been able to get it to work. Glad to have the company. Faye

Response:

This is so cool.  Here I am, aspiring to become a writer; I answer a newsgroup post and now I’m gonna be in print all over!!!  And more than anything, I’ll have the ultimate "last word" on a multitude of physicians via my pals, the dystoniacs. The name "Slipper" ain’t a pet name.  It is a version of an old family name handed down over the years to the "chosen" ones who exhibited certain qualities.  "Slipper" is a Hebrew term for, "She who is great".  My great, great grandmother, also a chosen one,  was 1/2 American Indian and was called "She who is great", but in indian it was pronounced, "Spaz-twista-shake".  That does not fit on contemporary birth certificates. Therefore it was shown in Hebrew, pronouced "Slipper". Yaw show some res -Slipper

Spaz-twista-shake,hey that fits me oh she who is great. I thought that was a nick name you had,and here I thought I knew you. Well I’ll talh to you later. Roger

Response:

Hi Bonnie- Greetings to you from Chicago!  Just a quick note to welcome you to the "family."  I wanted to ensure that you are also familiar with our organization, The Dystonia Medical Research Foundation.  We are the largest international organizations for dystonia-affected persons and their families (over 25,000 members!)  Our Foundation has a 3-fold mission:  to support dystonia-specific medical research (we have supported over $14 million to-date), to increase public and physician awareness of dystonia, and to sponsor educational and support programs for affected individuals and their families.  If you are not familiar with our gladly send them to you.  We also have a support group manual that may help you to get things started in Ft. Worth.   Take care, Jennifer Molski Dystonia Medical Research Foundation

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This is so cool.  Here I am, aspiring to become a writer; I answer a newsgroup post and now I’m gonna be in print all over!!!  And = more than anything, I’ll have the ultimate "last word" on a multitude of physicians via my pals, the dystoniacs. The name "Slipper" ain’t a pet name.  It is a version of an old family name handed down over the years to the "chosen" ones who exh= ibited certain qualities.  "Slipper" is a Hebrew term for, "She who is great".  My great, great grandmother, also a chosen one,  was= 1/2 American Indian and was called "She who is great", but in indian it was pronounced, "Spaz-twista-shake".  That does not fit on = contemporary birth certificates. Therefore it was shown in Hebrew, pronouced "Slipper". Yaw show some respect, okay!  Jeeeeeeeeeeeee= ese!!!!!! -Slipper Hi Slipper, So I am understanding that you are part Jew, part American Indian?  WOW!! What a wonderful combination I am curious about your post itself…it came onto my server as one long line and then a line that appeared to be typed and typed over-top-of many times.  This happened to Chana’s posts too, still is on my server at least.  AOL is having more trouble?  Or what? Ideas anybody? In any case, no matter how your posts ‘look’, I really enjoy having you with us! MB

Shoot!!  First it would not post and then it posted twice!!  Sorry! MB

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This is so cool.  Here I am, aspiring to become a writer; I answer a newsgroup post and now I’m gonna be in print all over!!!  And =

more than anything, I’ll have the ultimate "last word" on a multitude of physicians via my pals, the dystoniacs. The name "Slipper" ain’t a pet name.  It is a version of an old family name handed down over the years to the "chosen" ones who exh=

ibited certain qualities.  "Slipper" is a Hebrew term for, "She who is great".  My great, great grandmother, also a chosen one,  was=  1/2 American Indian and was called "She who is great", but in indian it was pronounced, "Spaz-twista-shake".  That does not fit on = contemporary birth certificates. Therefore it was shown in Hebrew, pronouced "Slipper". Yaw show some respect, okay!  Jeeeeeeeeeeeee= ese!!!!!! -Slipper

Hi Slipper, So I am understanding that you are part Jew, part American Indian?  WOW!! What a wonderful combination I am curious about your post itself…it came onto my server as one long line and then a line that appeared to be typed and typed over-top-of many times.  This happened to Chana’s posts too, still is on my server at least.  AOL is having more trouble?  Or what? Ideas anybody? In any case, no matter how your posts ‘look’, I really enjoy having you with us! MB

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Question:

You may wish to refer to an article by Dr. Paul Wenders group at U. Utah:: Reimarr, F et al ,An open trial of L-Tyrosine in the Treatment of Attention Deficit Disorder, Residual Type. AMERICAN JOURNAL OF PSYCHIATRY, 144:8 August 1987, pp 1071-3 This study used doses of 50-150mg/kg in adults with ADD.  Eight of twelve patients had a "marked to moderate" response after 2 weeks, but all developed tolerance at 6 weeks.   In re the comments about tyrosine not effecting CNS levels of dopamine and norepinephrine (as compared to tryptophane — serotonin) I doubt that its that simple.   Why would tyrosine/phenylanaine supplementation have a positive effec in some cases of depression? You may wish to look up some writings by Dr. Richard Wurtman that will correlate amino acid loading with increase in central neurotransmitters. Are you also taking supplements of B vitamine (B6) that will aid the production of dopamine? In closing, you may find as I have that tyrosine used concurrently with a stimulant will have even better results than either alone.  Good luck Bob

Response:

You may wish to refer to an article by Dr. Paul Wenders group at U. Utah:: Reimarr, F et al ,An open trial of L-Tyrosine in the Treatment of Attention Deficit Disorder, Residual Type. AMERICAN JOURNAL OF PSYCHIATRY, 144:8 August 1987, pp 1071-3 This study used doses of 50-150mg/kg in adults with ADD.  Eight of twelve patients had a "marked to moderate" response after 2 weeks, but all developed tolerance at 6 weeks.   In re the comments about tyrosine not effecting CNS levels of dopamine and norepinephrine (as compared to tryptophane — serotonin) I doubt that its that simple.   Why would tyrosine/phenylanaine supplementation have a positive effec in some cases of depression? You may wish to look up some writings by Dr. Richard Wurtman that will correlate amino acid loading with increase in central neurotransmitters.

Just to let you know where I’m coming from, for what it’s worth, here’s a quote from "The Molecular Foundations of Psychiatry" by S.E.Hyman & E.J. Nestler, pg 71:         Tyrosine hydroxylase is the rate limiting enzyme of catecholamine         [i.e. dopamine and norepinephrine] synthesis…Because tyrosine         hydroxylase exists at relatively low levels, and *under normal         conditions* is already supersaturated by the amount of tyrosine         found in the brain, it is very difficult to influence brain         catecholamine synthesis through variations in dietary tyrosine. Notice the qualification "under normal conditions".  There could be exceptions, for example, in persons with abnormal brain chemistry. Stanley – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Are you also taking supplements of B vitamine (B6) that will aid the production of dopamine? In closing, you may find as I have that tyrosine used concurrently with a stimulant will have even better results than either alone.  Good luck Bob

Response:

Which is the reason that L-Dopa is used to treat Parkinson’s disease rather than tyrosine.  I beleive that too many people expect too great of results from substances such as amino acids  Similarly too many in the medical/scientific community are just as fast to write off any real effect.   To simply state that tyrosine hydroxylase is the rate limiting factor may be a simplification.  (Does this consider variations depending on time of day?)   The Wender writing stated that a period of two weeks passed before an effect was noticed, which he compared to the delayed response found in most antidepressant drugs.  (Similarly he found no usefulness beyond 6 weeks, tolerance?) To my understanding, tricyclic antidepressants cause an immediate blockage of reuptake and consequential increase in synaptic transmitter levels but clinical response is delayed 2-6 weeks.  Why?  This suggests actions beyond the immediate cast of players, be it amino acids, enzymes, neurotransmitters and/or drugs, on an IMMEDIATE basis. I hope to respond to you giving a few other citations later. I invite your comments on a relate issue, ie, the differing actions of d-amphetamine and methylphenidate.  As a person with ADD, I had extreme problems (anxiety, dysphoria) with larger doses of Ritalin(40-60mg/dose), which my doctor simply excused to my greater awareness to the world.  I have no such problems with ROUGHLY equivalent doses of Dexedrine(15mg).  I have read that these two drugs act on different dopamine pools in the brain, and that methylphenidate actually inhibits the actions of amphetamine.(Research I beleive done by a researcher at Duke, McEwen or similar name reported in TIPS mid 80s)  Similarly methylphenidate seems to provoke epileptic activity, where amphetamine tends to inhibit it (Dexedrine is marketed as an anticonvulsant in Canada, I doubt this is only for its anti-drowsiness effects re phenobarbital) As a child I experienced nocturnal epilepsy but I have read nothing clinically about the selection of antiADD drugs in epileptics for example.  What is the current thinking (theoretically as well as clinically) regarding this diffenence between the actions of thes amphetamine like drugs and the methylphenidate like drugs?. Regards Bob

Response:

Tyrosine is a great way to prevent depletion of neurotransmitters as a result of psychostimulant therapy. Phenylalanine competes with tryptophan for entry to the brain and should not even be considered – it made me angry as all hell!! All by itself its probably nowhere near as effective, because the body is good at keeping levels where it thinks they should be. L-Dopa effectively bypasses this mechanism – anyone got any data on it? L-Dopa can [according to a friend] be made by feeding potatoes lots of tyrosine, then eating them [he didnt say whether they were cooked or not] — Its always the same / Im the only one who’s always left to blame / Take what you can take / Hurt is your only idea of a game / To break away / I dont have that within me / And I’m not afraid / So I bite the hand that feeds me… / When all you do is break me / And put me in a cage     Front 242, Animal.

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Someone posted a message recently about Tyrosine conflicting with antidepressants. Anyone have any details?

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: I really hate these kinds of replies. : Why do you bother doing this without getting the facts?  Gosh.. You’ve : succeeded in making me angry. : I have probably been diagnosed with ADD more times than you have, Ed. : about 3 or 4.  from neurologists and psychiatrists.  I have tried every : drug known from stimulants to wellbutrin. : lay off, and find out the facts before you waste your time talking without : knowing. : If you don know, ASK.  don’t suggest things that have already been done IN : EXCESS! : Now, if someone could INTELLECTUALLY respond to my message,  I would : appreciate it.   : I appologize to all reading this, it just makes me upset to have someone : respond to me like this. Jason, you _asked_ for opinions; and that’s what you got.  Don’t complain that somebody offered you the best advice that anybody could in response to your description of experimenting with self-treatment for ADD "symptoms". I’ve tried Ritalin, switched to Dexedrine, went back to Ritalin, added Effexor along with Ritalin, and still some of my symptoms persist. However, all through this process (a little over 2 years now) I’ve been seeing a therapist (psychologist) on a regular basis, as well at the less frequent appointments with neurologist, neuropsychologist, and psychiatrist. Oh, can’t forget my general practicioner MD, either. For many people, drugs are not enough–some type of therapy or counselling can help them take control over their life.  For some of us it’s the first time ever we’ve felt even close to being in the driver’s seat, and it can be a frightening/frustrating experience–not knowing what we’re supposed to do first, or do next, or do after that, or… Final note: regarding self-prescribed vitamin, mineral, amino acid, "natural" supplements, a biochemical/medical researcher (PhD+) advised me, "I recommend against it; when you start messing with chemical balance in your brain you can really screw things up."   _I’d_ recommend taking Ed’s advice: seek professional help and stick with it. (I apologize if the tone of this post started getting hot, but what you’re  doing _is_ playing with fire.  Be really careful!)       "Well, heck. It sounded like a _really_good_idea_, at the time."

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I really hate these kinds of replies. Why do you bother doing this without getting the facts?  Gosh.. You’ve succeeded in making me angry. I have probably been diagnosed with ADD more times than you have, Ed. about 3 or 4.  from neurologists and psychiatrists.  I have tried every drug known from stimulants to wellbutrin. lay off, and find out the facts before you waste your time talking without knowing. If you don know, ASK.  don’t suggest things that have already been done IN EXCESS! Now, if someone could INTELLECTUALLY respond to my message,  I would appreciate it.   I appologize to all reading this, it just makes me upset to have someone respond to me like this. Jason —- The fear of the unknown is a response to the excesses of the imagination.

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