Question:

Jeff, Sorry to respond so late.  Of course I remember.  I have also been following your ordel.  I’m sorry to hear it, my friend.  You do know, of course, that plaquenil is ototoxic.  I hope that it isn’t bothering your ears too much. Good to hear from you again. Thanks, Mike — To reply via email remove the X’s from my email address: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – hi mike.  u remember me from a few years ago?  sorry to hear you are not doing very well.  can i offer immunomodulators maybe?  that seems to work for me.  on mtx and plaquenil.  am holding own. jeffy It’s been a long time….  You folks probably don’t remember me, but I’m back. Been in denail the past few months, but it is definately back–my colitis/proctitis.whatever it is.  They’ve never really figured it out actually.  For awhile, I’d have days of no symptoms, then a day of blood, and nothing again for days.  Right now, it’s become constant.  So, I’m back. Tried all the alternative stuff like fish oil, flaxseed, borage, evening primrose, etc.  The only one that seemed to do anything was bromelain, and it made my heart race, so can’t keep taking it.  Trying to avoid any real meds, but I think I’m screwed.  Are there supplemetns that are *BAD* for IBD?  Even ginger makes me bleed more!  Crazy! I’m allergic to 5ASA and I hate the cortisone suppositories–make me get all fungusy down there.  DAMN!!!  Wish there was some other alternative. I don’t have diarrhea, and go only once a day (sometimes twice), just blood and mucus (sometimes just blood)—otherwise the stools are generally normal. I need to find a doc.  My current doc says, "You’re bleeding, so what?" Obviously, I’m a mild case.  Go only once a day, big deal.  It still hurts, and sucks! Don’t know what more to say.  Hope you kept a space open for me in the club. Thanks, Mike — To reply via email remove the X’s from my email address:

Response:

What’s molo-cure?

Mike,     Here is the link for Molocure: http://www.molocure.com for more info.   Like I said, I don’t know if it works, but thats all my daughter is on right now along with other multivitamins.  Now, I’m not endorsing MoloCure nor am I suggesting its working.  All I’m saying is that MoloCure is a product we chose to add to my daughters diet as a natural suppliment under the supervision of her GI.  I’m a skeptic and I attribute her well being to the Prednisone regimine she was just on and the removal of Asacol from her list of meds. We are still considering 6mp, but for now MoloCure is all we are using and she’s symptom free.     We are going back to the GI next Friday. Joe

Response:

hi mike.  u remember me from a few years ago?  sorry to hear you are not doing very well.  can i offer immunomodulators maybe?  that seems to work for me.  on mtx and plaquenil.  am holding own. jeffy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s been a long time….  You folks probably don’t remember me, but I’m back. Been in denail the past few months, but it is definately back–my colitis/proctitis.whatever it is.  They’ve never really figured it out actually.  For awhile, I’d have days of no symptoms, then a day of blood, and nothing again for days.  Right now, it’s become constant.  So, I’m back. Tried all the alternative stuff like fish oil, flaxseed, borage, evening primrose, etc.  The only one that seemed to do anything was bromelain, and it made my heart race, so can’t keep taking it.  Trying to avoid any real meds, but I think I’m screwed.  Are there supplemetns that are *BAD* for IBD?  Even ginger makes me bleed more!  Crazy! I’m allergic to 5ASA and I hate the cortisone suppositories–make me get all fungusy down there.  DAMN!!!  Wish there was some other alternative. I don’t have diarrhea, and go only once a day (sometimes twice), just blood and mucus (sometimes just blood)—otherwise the stools are generally normal. I need to find a doc.  My current doc says, "You’re bleeding, so what?" Obviously, I’m a mild case.  Go only once a day, big deal.  It still hurts, and sucks! Don’t know what more to say.  Hope you kept a space open for me in the club. Thanks, Mike — To reply via email remove the X’s from my email address:

Response:

Hi Jennifer, Regarding prednisone in asthma, I have quite a bit of experience with asthma medications, and it sounds like your asthma is not controlled at times?  I was wondering if you have tried Advair? It contains Flovent and Serevent. Barry

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I know this doesn’t pertain to the thread however Joe mentioned Prednisone. Is this a common treatment?  I use prednisone when my asthma flares up and when I’m on that med I can eat all day, to be expected, and have no problems with stools. Jennifer   meds, but I think I’m screwed.  Are there supplemetns that are *BAD* for   IBD?  Even ginger makes me bleed more!  Crazy! Mike,     Since my daughter is asacol-intolerant, I’ve added Molo-Cure to her diet with permission of her GI.  She just came off her Prednisone regime due to what we thought was a flare up, but now think it was the Asacol.   So far she is fine.  I can’t attribute her well being to the Molo-cure since she got better just by stopping the Asacol. Right now she is not taking anything, but we are considering 6mp. Our decision is to wait and see for a while…. Joe

Response:

THANKS to all of you who report problems with the asacol, and the docs refusing to acknowledge it… I flat out refused to take it after problems I was having.  Doc thought I was nuts, but I stuck to my guns. I’m taking Colazal now, which is expensive as hell, but is supposed to be similar to asacol.  No problems, but if it’s keeping the CD in check I have no idea. Robin

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Asacol is evil.  I think so many people have been hurt by it, and yet no doc will ever believe it.  What’s molo-cure? Thanks, Mike — To reply via email remove the (SPAM_BLOCKER) from my email address:   meds, but I think I’m screwed.  Are there supplemetns that are *BAD* for   IBD?  Even ginger makes me bleed more!  Crazy! Mike,     Since my daughter is asacol-intolerant, I’ve added Molo-Cure to her diet with permission of her GI.  She just came off her Prednisone regime due to what we thought was a flare up, but now think it was the Asacol.   So far she is fine.  I can’t attribute her well being to the Molo-cure since she got better just by stopping the Asacol. Right now she is not taking anything, but we are considering 6mp. Our decision is to wait and see for a while…. Joe

Response:

Hi Mike, You mentioned that you have tried everything, so I was wondering if you tried the Specific Carbohydrate Diet recommended by Elaine G. Gottschall ? It worked for my wife, and my sister, who was quite severe. Here is a link to some information about her books. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/096927680X/qid%3D1057963139/sr… My sister went on the strict version of the diet, and within 2 weeks was back to normal. At the very least you should consider reading the book "Breaking the Viscious Cycle". It is based on solid scientific principles, and it has worked for many people. Barry – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s been a long time….  You folks probably don’t remember me, but I’m back. Been in denail the past few months, but it is definately back–my colitis/proctitis.whatever it is.  They’ve never really figured it out actually.  For awhile, I’d have days of no symptoms, then a day of blood, and nothing again for days.  Right now, it’s become constant.  So, I’m back. Tried all the alternative stuff like fish oil, flaxseed, borage, evening primrose, etc.  The only one that seemed to do anything was bromelain, and it made my heart race, so can’t keep taking it.  Trying to avoid any real meds, but I think I’m screwed.  Are there supplemetns that are *BAD* for IBD?  Even ginger makes me bleed more!  Crazy! I’m allergic to 5ASA and I hate the cortisone suppositories–make me get all fungusy down there.  DAMN!!!  Wish there was some other alternative. I don’t have diarrhea, and go only once a day (sometimes twice), just blood and mucus (sometimes just blood)—otherwise the stools are generally normal. I need to find a doc.  My current doc says, "You’re bleeding, so what?" Obviously, I’m a mild case.  Go only once a day, big deal.  It still hurts, and sucks! Don’t know what more to say.  Hope you kept a space open for me in the club. Thanks, Mike — To reply via email remove the X’s from my email address:

Response:

  meds, but I think I’m screwed.  Are there supplemetns that are *BAD* for   IBD?  Even ginger makes me bleed more!  Crazy!   Mike,     Since my daughter is asacol-intolerant, I’ve added Molo-Cure to her diet with permission of her GI.  She just came off her Prednisone regime due to what we thought was a flare up, but now think it was the Asacol.   So far she is fine.  I can’t attribute her well being to the Molo-cure since she got better just by stopping the Asacol. Right now she is not taking anything, but we are considering 6mp. Our decision is to wait and see for a while…. Joe

Response:

Asacol is evil.  I think so many people have been hurt by it, and yet no doc will ever believe it.  What’s molo-cure? Thanks, Mike — To reply via email remove the (SPAM_BLOCKER) from my email address:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   meds, but I think I’m screwed.  Are there supplemetns that are *BAD* for   IBD?  Even ginger makes me bleed more!  Crazy! Mike,     Since my daughter is asacol-intolerant, I’ve added Molo-Cure to her diet with permission of her GI.  She just came off her Prednisone regime due to what we thought was a flare up, but now think it was the Asacol.   So far she is fine.  I can’t attribute her well being to the Molo-cure since she got better just by stopping the Asacol. Right now she is not taking anything, but we are considering 6mp. Our decision is to wait and see for a while…. Joe

Response:

I know this doesn’t pertain to the thread however Joe mentioned Prednisone. Is this a common treatment?  I use prednisone when my asthma flares up and when I’m on that med I can eat all day, to be expected, and have no problems with stools. Jennifer

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   meds, but I think I’m screwed.  Are there supplemetns that are *BAD* for   IBD?  Even ginger makes me bleed more!  Crazy! Mike,     Since my daughter is asacol-intolerant, I’ve added Molo-Cure to her diet with permission of her GI.  She just came off her Prednisone regime due to what we thought was a flare up, but now think it was the Asacol.   So far she is fine.  I can’t attribute her well being to the Molo-cure since she got better just by stopping the Asacol. Right now she is not taking anything, but we are considering 6mp. Our decision is to wait and see for a while…. Joe

Response:

Mike, Maybe you should try a new doctor if your doctor doesn’t seem to think there is a problem… Seems to me if you are having blood in your stools… That’s not good! Hope you feel better soon! Marlena – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s been a long time….  You folks probably don’t remember me, but I’m back. Been in denail the past few months, but it is definately back–my colitis/proctitis.whatever it is.  They’ve never really figured it out actually.  For awhile, I’d have days of no symptoms, then a day of blood, and nothing again for days.  Right now, it’s become constant.  So, I’m back. Tried all the alternative stuff like fish oil, flaxseed, borage, evening primrose, etc.  The only one that seemed to do anything was bromelain, and it made my heart race, so can’t keep taking it.  Trying to avoid any real meds, but I think I’m screwed.  Are there supplemetns that are *BAD* for IBD?  Even ginger makes me bleed more!  Crazy! I’m allergic to 5ASA and I hate the cortisone suppositories–make me get all fungusy down there.  DAMN!!!  Wish there was some other alternative. I don’t have diarrhea, and go only once a day (sometimes twice), just blood and mucus (sometimes just blood)—otherwise the stools are generally normal. I need to find a doc.  My current doc says, "You’re bleeding, so what?" Obviously, I’m a mild case.  Go only once a day, big deal.  It still hurts, and sucks! Don’t know what more to say.  Hope you kept a space open for me in the club. Thanks, Mike

Response:

It’s been a long time….  You folks probably don’t remember me, but I’m back. Been in denail the past few months, but it is definately back–my colitis/proctitis.whatever it is.  They’ve never really figured it out actually.  For awhile, I’d have days of no symptoms, then a day of blood, and nothing again for days.  Right now, it’s become constant.  So, I’m back. Tried all the alternative stuff like fish oil, flaxseed, borage, evening primrose, etc.  The only one that seemed to do anything was bromelain, and it made my heart race, so can’t keep taking it.  Trying to avoid any real meds, but I think I’m screwed.  Are there supplemetns that are *BAD* for IBD?  Even ginger makes me bleed more!  Crazy! I’m allergic to 5ASA and I hate the cortisone suppositories–make me get all fungusy down there.  DAMN!!!  Wish there was some other alternative. I don’t have diarrhea, and go only once a day (sometimes twice), just blood and mucus (sometimes just blood)—otherwise the stools are generally normal. I need to find a doc.  My current doc says, "You’re bleeding, so what?" Obviously, I’m a mild case.  Go only once a day, big deal.  It still hurts, and sucks! Don’t know what more to say.  Hope you kept a space open for me in the club. Thanks, Mike — To reply via email remove the X’s from my email address:

Response:

Question:

So why is it there is such a shortage?  Is it for all types of phentermine? I was told that the company stopped making the 30 mg dosage so people were getting 15mg and taking 2.  But that the 37.5 was not a problem to get.  Is this wrong? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was reading a transcript of one of your chats on WebMD and I followed a link you had posted there to an Rx site http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/phenterm.htm. . I see that they have Phentermine hcl there. The cost is $20 for a 90 day supply. I was wondering if this was pure phentermine? I bought some phentermine pills a while back from another site and paid about $300 for a 90 day supply. I am wondering if you can tell me what the differences are in the different mixes of phentermine. I used to be on Phen-fen and have just never found anything quite like it since. I have pretty good results (2pnds per week) with the phentermine, but now I am not sure what kind to buy and where to buy it at a fair price. I would really appreciate any feedback or help you could give. As far as I know RxList is a monograph service, and it does not sell drugs. $20 for a 90 day supply sounds kind of low, maybe for a 30 day supply. But I don’t have any information about which pharmacies are reliable, or where the best places are to buy it. I do have a few "virtual pharmacies" listed on the OMR site, but they are regular pharmacies (like the cyberpharmacy) and they require a prescription from your doctor. With the shortage I don’t know what pharmacies still have generic phentermine, and I have no real advice to offer you other than that given in the April 2000 issue of OMR on the phentermine shortage. If you are interested in information on the various types of phentermine, there is an autoresponder on the Obesity Meds and Research News site. Just go to the FAQ page and click on the phentermine primer. That will send you an e-mail with the basics about all the major types of phentermine. You might also want to stop by current obesity medications FAQ and read the section there on phentermine. Been out of town for the last week, and off-line for the last several days. Hope this helps. Barbara Barbara Hirsch, Publisher OBESITY MEDS AND RESEARCH NEWS May issue: Ephedrine and thermogenesis. http://www.obesity-news.com/

Response:

As far as I know RxList is a monograph service, and it does not sell drugs. $20 for a 90 day supply sounds kind of low, maybe for a 30 day supply.

That doesn’t sound low at all for the wholesale price.  A 60 day supply goes for $17.76 at drugstore.com.

Response:

I was reading a transcript of one of your chats on WebMD and I followed a link you had posted there to an Rx site http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/phenterm.htm. . I see that they have Phentermine hcl there. The cost is $20 for a 90 day supply. I was wondering if this was pure phentermine? I bought some phentermine pills a while back from another site and paid about $300 for a 90 day supply. I am wondering if you can tell me what the differences are in the different mixes of phentermine. I used to be on Phen-fen and have just never found anything quite like it since. I have pretty good results (2pnds per week) with the phentermine, but now I am not sure what kind to buy and where to buy it at a fair price. I would really appreciate any feedback or help you could give.

As far as I know RxList is a monograph service, and it does not sell drugs. $20 for a 90 day supply sounds kind of low, maybe for a 30 day supply. But I don’t have any information about which pharmacies are reliable, or where the best places are to buy it. I do have a few "virtual pharmacies" listed on the OMR site, but they are regular pharmacies (like the cyberpharmacy) and they require a prescription from your doctor. With the shortage I don’t know what pharmacies still have generic phentermine, and I have no real advice to offer you other than that given in the April 2000 issue of OMR on the phentermine shortage. If you are interested in information on the various types of phentermine, there is an autoresponder on the Obesity Meds and Research News site. Just go to the FAQ page and click on the phentermine primer. That will send you an e-mail with the basics about all the major types of phentermine. You might also want to stop by current obesity medications FAQ and read the section there on phentermine. Been out of town for the last week, and off-line for the last several days. Hope this helps. Barbara Barbara Hirsch, Publisher OBESITY MEDS AND RESEARCH NEWS May issue: Ephedrine and thermogenesis. http://www.obesity-news.com/

Response:

I was reading a transcript of one of your chats on WebMD and I followed a link you had posted there to an Rx site http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/phenterm.htm. . I see that they have Phentermine hcl there. The cost is $20 for a 90 day supply. I was wondering if this was pure phentermine? I bought some phentermine pills a while back from another site and paid about $300 for a 90 day supply. I am wondering if you can tell me what the differences are in the different mixes of phentermine. I used to be on Phen-fen and have just never found anything quite like it since. I have pretty good results (2pnds per week) with the phentermine, but now I am not sure what kind to buy and where to buy it at a fair price. I would really appreciate any feedback or help you could give. Needing to lose 30 pounds……. happygirl

Response:

Question:

Just wondering if anyone has tried taking Singulair to treat allergy related sinus congestion.

Response:

I read that it was FDA approved for allergic rhinitis very recently. "Steven Balough" <sbalo…@mail.utexas.edu

wrote in message

news:avlc9n$2kp$1@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Just wondering if anyone has tried taking Singulair to treat allergy

related

sinus congestion.

Response:

Many allergists and ENTs have prescribed it for that for years, even without FDA approval for it ("off-label"). I’ve been prescribed it several times, for rhinitis. Recently I started taking it again. To tell the truth, I’m really not sure if it is helping me at all or not. (Sometimes it’s hard to know. You think–"I might be worse if I wasn’t taking this".) Anyone here noticed definitive results from it? Are there any published controlled double-blind studies on using it for rhinitis? (I guess there would have to be, if in fact the FDA has approved it for that purpose.) Anyone know where one can read the studies? Can’t regular Singulair use over years have negative effects on the liver? What if one takes both Singulair and acetaminophen regularly? "Joy" <n…@nospam.com

wrote in message

news:cy5U9.5794$Qr4.558783@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I read that it was FDA approved for allergic rhinitis very recently. > "Steven Balough" <sbalo…@mail.utexas.edu

wrote in message

> news:avlc9n$2kp$1@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu… > > Just wondering if anyone has tried taking Singulair to treat allergy > related > > sinus congestion.

Response:

Question:

Hi jenwolf, I don’t know what your situation is, but if you don’t have insurance or lost your insurance coverage most states have an insurance pool available to residents that can’t get private insurance due to chronic illness, birth defects or the like.  I would call your State Insurance Office and see what kind of coverage is available including prescription drugs (this is not through welfare and there is a cost).  I have had to go through this a million times because my youngest child was born with a life long birth defect and no one other than group insurance will touch him…recently ditto for myself and my other son with asthma.  Really raises the blood pressure at times, for sure. Best wishes, Patrice – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – can someone please tell me if there is any help anywhere for this. i have about a month left. please don’t suggest welfare, they have turned me away already. someone mailed me a link to http://www.themedicineprogram.com/ but I’m a lot skeptical about something like this when it’s being done out of a p.o. box and requiring at least $5 up front. please don’t suggest getting samples from my doctor. I take several nebulizer solutions plus singulair and theophyline

Response:

Hello Jenwolf     I just checked this other site and it has some very good info for free so take a look. http://www.needymeds.com/index.html Thanks Lane Lewis

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – can someone please tell me if there is any help anywhere for this. i have about a month left. please don’t suggest welfare, they have turned me away already. someone mailed me a link to http://www.themedicineprogram.com/ but I’m a lot skeptical about something like this when it’s being done out of a p.o. box and requiring at least $5 up front. please don’t suggest getting samples from my doctor. I take several nebulizer solutions plus singulair and theophyline

Response:

Hello Jenwolf     I just checked this other site and it has some very good info for free so take a look. http://www.needymeds.com/index.html

Yes, that one was much more helpful. The thing that bothers me is that some of these companies have an income limit. One said not over $1200/month for a family of 2. Our income is just *slightly* over that right now. What these individual companies don’t seem to realize is that the drug they manufacture is not the only drug I need. The cost for all of them approaches $1000. That’s nearly *all* of our income just for medications. There’s no way we can afford it. Some other people suggested I check into a state insurance pool. Michigan has no such thing. Just some laws about covering people with pre-existing conditions, but that only pertains to employers offering employees insurance through insurance companies within the state. The law has a huge loophole in that they can offer insurance through an out-of-state company which doesn’t have to follow Michigan law or they can offer a private insurance which is not regulated by the state. I found only one insurance company that would sell a policy to a private individual, but they don’t offer prescription coverage to individuals at all. I only got lucky that my husband’s other employer seems to have paid the premium that I am covered under even though they didn’t have to since he’s laid off. So, at least I will be able to get another 3 month supply of everything for about $50. This still doesn’t solve the problem, it just puts a band-aid on it. What we need is a *federal* pool. Or I need to move to SC or CO.

Response:

This insurance program is sometimes listed under wierd things in the blue pages. Try your state insurance commissioner’s office. Also, there are patient advocacy groups that sometimes have all this information together. Under Michigan State Government on the web, I found this page which has a way to access consumer information services of the Michigan State Insurance Bureau: http://www.cis.state.mi.us/ins/  Good luck. Linda

Thank you for the link. I managed to find the number to the state health insurance bureau and called them. For about $200/month I can get health insurance that covers a lot of things: office visits, lab work, x-rays, dental, optical, hospitalization etc … but not prescriptions. They suggested I call the welfare people. When I told them I’d already been turned away by the welfare people, they said "sorry, can’t help ya" Now I know why so many sick people in Michigan kill themselves.

Response:

Links for free drugs for the needy: http://www.themedicineprogram.com/ The Medicine Program "MEDICINE at NO COST!

Medicine at no cost, just be sure you send $5 per medicine requested to this p.o. box and, oh btw, there’s no guarantee. Sounds like a scam to me. The others I haven’t looked at. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – http://www.needymeds.com/index.html  Free Meds http://www.aaaai.org/professional/physicianreference/drugassistance.stm Prescription Assistance

Response:

Hello Jenwolf     Send them the money. They will send you the forms for the free meds. This is legit but there are no guarantees that you will qualify and only some meds such as accolate are available. The drug companies themselves put on these programs for the needy but not all of them do so this service will tell you which ones do and do not. You could try contacting them directly but I’m not sure they would respond. Didn’t you post this about six months ago it’s what got me interested in this and thanks to the person who first posted the link. Thanks :O) Lane Lewis

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – can someone please tell me if there is any help anywhere for this. i have about a month left. please don’t suggest welfare, they have turned me away already. someone mailed me a link to http://www.themedicineprogram.com/ but I’m a lot skeptical about something like this when it’s being done out of a p.o. box and requiring at least $5 up front. please don’t suggest getting samples from my doctor. I take several nebulizer solutions plus singulair and theophyline

Response:

Links for free drugs for the needy: http://www.themedicineprogram.com/ The Medicine Program "MEDICINE at NO COST! http://www.needymeds.com/index.html  Free Meds http://www.aaaai.org/professional/physicianreference/drugassistance.stm Prescription Assistance

Response:

can someone please tell me if there is any help anywhere for this. i have about a month left. please don’t suggest welfare, they have turned me away already. someone mailed me a link to http://www.themedicineprogram.com/ but I’m a lot skeptical about something like this when it’s being done out of a p.o. box and requiring at least $5 up front. please don’t suggest getting samples from my doctor. I take several nebulizer solutions plus singulair and theophyline

Response:

Hi jenwolf, I don’t know what your situation is, but if you don’t have insurance or lost your insurance coverage most states have an insurance pool available to residents that can’t get private insurance due to chronic illness, birth defects or the like.  I would call your State Insurance Office

I’ve heard of this for auto insurance, but not medical. State Insurance Office. I don’t even know that Michigan has one. I can try to find out. What state are you in?

Response:

I’m in South Carolina.  Look in your blue pages under State Insurance Department.  I live in one of the most backward states in the US, so that gives me hope that your state has comparable benefits.  (I know there are SC residents that lurk on this ng, so please don’t flame me for this comment.)

Hmmm, all I can find is listed under community services – insurance complaints – insurance information hotline. I suppose I could call them and complain about being excluded from every medical insurance on the planet just because I have asthma and depression and need about $1000 worth of medication every month. But there’s no listing under the state section. Shrug. Interesting that they also list the suicide prevention hotline under insurance complaints. ‘Course lack of adequate medical care is probably the number 1 reason people in Michigan kill themselves. Not very encouraging, that.

Response:

This insurance program is sometimes listed under wierd things in the blue pages. Try your state insurance commissioner’s office. Also, there are patient advocacy groups that sometimes have all this information together. Under Michigan State Government on the web, I found this page which has a way to access consumer information services of the Michigan State Insurance Bureau: http://www.cis.state.mi.us/ins/  Good luck. Linda – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m in South Carolina.  Look in your blue pages under State Insurance Department.  I live in one of the most backward states in the US, so that gives me hope that your state has comparable benefits.  (I know there are SC residents that lurk on this ng, so please don’t flame me for this comment.) Hmmm, all I can find is listed under community services – insurance complaints – insurance information hotline. I suppose I could call them and complain about being excluded from every medical insurance on the planet just because I have asthma and depression and need about $1000 worth of medication every month. But there’s no listing under the state section. Shrug. Interesting that they also list the suicide prevention hotline under insurance complaints. ‘Course lack of adequate medical care is probably the number 1 reason people in Michigan kill themselves. Not very encouraging, that.

Response:

I’m in South Carolina.  Look in your blue pages under State Insurance Department.  I live in one of the most backward states in the US, so that gives me hope that your state has comparable benefits.  (I know there are SC residents that lurk on this ng, so please don’t flame me for this comment.) Good luck, Patrice – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi jenwolf, I don’t know what your situation is, but if you don’t have insurance or lost your insurance coverage most states have an insurance pool available to residents that can’t get private insurance due to chronic illness, birth defects or the like.  I would call your State Insurance Office I’ve heard of this for auto insurance, but not medical. State Insurance Office. I don’t even know that Michigan has one. I can try to find out. What state are you in?

Response:

Question:

Is there any research indicating that Singulair can have a beneficial effect for people with Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease? I’ve asked my doctor, an internist with a subspecialty in pulmonology, about this, and he was doubtful that the drug would be helpful to me. Since the various "classic" asthma meds are used in treating COPD symptoms, it seems strange that the anti-leukotrienes (and Singulair, in particular) have not been recommended by the drug mfrs. [I posted this question to this list several months ago. I'm asking it again, on the outside chance that there is possibly some new data available.] — Neal Blank http://p3.net/~nealb/

Response:

I am just taking a guess from what I know about Singulair.  I am sure If I am way off base here aleast one of you will correct me.  Singulair, goes after the chemical that at the root of the problem causes the bronchial spasms.  By stopping the spasms there will be less inflammation, in turn lessing the asthma attacks.  Bronchistis, and emphysema are due to inflamed bronchial tubes, but are not caused by the spasms that causes the inflammations of asthma, so Singulair will not help.  I am not sure if I am right but, this may (or may not)help.

Response:

Is there any research indicating that Singulair can have a beneficial effect for people with Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease? I’ve asked my doctor, an internist with a subspecialty in pulmonology, about this, and he was doubtful that the drug would be helpful to me. Since the various "classic" asthma meds are used in treating COPD symptoms, it seems strange that the anti-leukotrienes (and Singulair, in particular) have not been recommended by the drug mfrs. [I posted this question to this list several months ago. I'm asking it again, on the outside chance that there is possibly some new data available.]

No I don’t think there is any data available. I note that in the UK the drug is only licensed for asthma. However, I have COPD with a ‘reversible componant’, which means that I respond to corticosteroid therapy with an improvement in PF and FEV1. I also respond to bronchodilators. Call this asthma if you like, and yes I have been perscribed Singulair and yes it seems to have definitely improved things for me. I have now just finished the first months treatment and the improvement I felt within days of taking it seems to have been maintained. Yesterday was the *first day for over ten years* that I have not used a single puff of Ventolin If you can persuade them to let you have it I would say it is worth a try. Regards Rob Remove the spam from address if replying by email

Response:

I am just taking a guess from what I know about Singulair.  I am sure If I am way off base here aleast one of you will correct me.  Singulair, goes after the chemical that at the root of the problem causes the bronchial spasms.  By stopping the spasms there will be less inflammation, in turn lessing the asthma attacks.  Bronchistis, and emphysema are due to inflamed bronchial tubes, but are not caused by the spasms that causes the inflammations of asthma, so Singulair will not help.  I am not sure if I am right but, this may (or may not)help.

Not wrong, but an oversimplification. Yes, LTD is a potent broncho-constrictor. BUt it appears to be having at least mild anti-inflammatory effects at least in mild to moderate asthmatics.  THe reasons arent clear yet, but bronchospasm can lead to secondary release of mediators (prostaglandin D, Thromboxane A, cytokines, etc) which ARE inflammatory. If LTD even partially inhibits the release of such mediators from mast cells, eosinophils etc, it would have anti-inflammatory effects. BUT – *I* don’t know of any evidence that LTD is a precipitating agent in COPD.  If it’s not a major player in that disease, SIngulair/Accolate’s impact is likely to be far less than in asthma.  To date, there are no scientific studies of the question.  Both LTE and LTB (a leukotriene NOT targeted by Accolate/Singulair) have been shown to be elevated in COPD, but whether reducing that elevation has any effect in the disease doesnt appear to have been studied.  IF LTB is importand, COPD may be better treated with Zyflo than with the LT-RAs.

Response:

Question:

I read somewhere that the NPS considers invasive plants and animals to be a greater threat to the integrity of the park environments then the crush of human visitors.

This is one of the areas where full protection gets very hard to even define. For example, the Great Smokies area parks and some of the national forests nearby, are all either already allowing or considering unlimited fishing of rainbow trout. Why? Because the rainbow isn’t a native species, and they hope that eliminating it from some streams will preserve the native trout (which is technically a char anyway). Park service people are busily figuring out which streams have waterfalls high enough to keep rainbows from returning if fished out (as rainbows are mediocre jumpers compared to the native species), and which ones can’t be kept cleared. It may be ecologically sound overall, but it results in a crazy quilt pattern of fishing policies. I’m waiting for someone to suggest ‘improving’ a few waterfalls to make more streams ‘native species only’. Then there’s the asiatic brown trout, which is also non-native, but is unfortunately an excellent jumper…      Meanwhile, efforts continue to restore once native elk and wolves. Elk seem to be working, but keeping released red wolves alive when they stray out of the park area is highly doubtful, and if they can’t be established as a stable population, then the only way left to control the elk is to allow hunting. There’s also the question of whether red wolves count as a native species, since they all seem to have some domestic canine genes mixed in. Wolves may also help reduce the numbers of wild boar (again a non-native species). But nobody seriously thinks the wild boar can be eliminated by wolf predation…       The situation makes one thing clear. Once you let invasive plants and animals in, and hunt out a few native species, you have a seriously unstable ecosystem on your hands, and every step you take to restore a ‘normal’ ecology is a step into the unknown. All the likelyest scenarios involve other problems developing, and fixes for the fixes for the fixes being required. ‘Full protection’ becomes ‘full protection for native species’, with native usually meaning ‘before the white man came’. Planners don’t generally like to admit it, but they are not even trying to preserve the full diversity of the park’s wildlife, they are trying to set a higher threshold for the coming crash. They don’t expect to have a thousand species of wildflowers in the park in 30 years, but they think that proper management can cut diebacks to 20% or so, or in some areas 50%, and not taking these steps could leave us with 80 or 90% losses to some phyla. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yup and we also have to worry about plans to "localize" control of other areas of wilderness.  This is one of the few instances I can think of where National control of land is far better than state or local control.  Once local control is involved, local, economic concerns, logging, etc. takes over.  Then we all lose what we’ve been lucky enough as a nation to have had in the past. Jerry

Response:

 I still believe we have to recognize that National Parks are, by their very design, places where we have to balance the needs of recreation and protection. – Bob C.

snipped all sorts of agreeable stuff… Here’s the crux of the problem, not all people agree on what the "balance" should be. leads to healthy debate…too bad that’s about as far as it can go in this forum. — Paul Schnettler

Response:

     Don’t know if many have been following a previous post on protections for our National Parks but it seems by the responses that various animals and objects within our parks are not fully protected!  I was always under the assumption that our National Parks were these "Cathedrals" set aside, forever for the people and also for preservation. I think I agree with your sentiments in general, but disagree with the notion that National Parks should be set aside as "Cathedrals".

This was not a suggestion of mine——-simply an observation I had personally made and thought was true! This is more the purpose of other types of protected areas. A National Park is not the same thing as a wilderness area, although it may contain such areas. The mission of the NPS is stated as: "…to promote and regulate the use of the…national parks…which     purpose is to conserve the scenery and the natural and historic objects     and the wild life therein and to provide for the enjoyment of the same in     such manner and by such means as will leave them unimpaired for the     enjoyment of future generations."

Unimpaired for the enjoyment of future generations is a key phrase here. And as was stated in other posts, changing times, habitat loss and other factors may change the general "mission" of the park in future years. A key to the statement is the "enjoyment" aspect. Most of our parks have been created around scenic wonders of the landscape, scenic wonders which people naturally want to go see. (Everglades NP, designated in 1947, was the first park created purely because of the plant and animal life, with supporters admitting that many would consider the scenery to be "confused and monotonous" – having been there twice, however, I can tell you that the abundance of plants and animal life is itself a scenic wonder!). Personally, I think it makes sense to try to make the parks as accessible as possible (within the bounds of leaving them "unimpaired"). The reason I say this is that our National Parks are probably the best school room we have for educating people on the need for protecting our wilderness.

Exactly.  Even though I don’t like the idea of seeing animals in cages in zoos, I agree with the reasons——to educate, inform and enlighten the public on the issues of preservation.  Somewhere along the line, man may have to face the choice of either restricting events that may lead to the complete loss of a species, etc. or lose the species alltogether.  That’s a drastic statement and we as a nation are at this cross road with some species now but will we value our National Parks enough to restrict certain activities in a park that will cause negative affects by overuse? I read somewhere that the NPS considers invasive plants and animals to be a greater threat to the integrity of the park environments then the crush of human visitors.

I somewhat agree.  Vast numbers of visitors can be controlled, after all, you’re dealing with an "intelligent" being.  :-)  But mindless, foreign plants that may have no, local preditors but thrive in their new homes can choke out resident plants because these plants have to contend with the native insects, diseases, etc. I don’t know if this is true, but I can easily believe it given the the human visitation is mostly limited to very small areas of the park and is completely within our control. So bring as many people as possible to the park and give them that environmental education.

Yes.  The vast majority of visitors to the parks never see the "back country". Yes, we do have to be always wary of many of the privatization schemes and other ways in which those hostile to environmental concerns would like to "Disnify" our parks, but I still believe we have to recognize that National Parks are, by their very design, places where we have to balance the needs of recreation and protection.

Yup and we also have to worry about plans to "localize" control of other areas of wilderness.  This is one of the few instances I can think of where National control of land is far better than state or local control.  Once local control is involved, local, economic concerns, logging, etc. takes over.  Then we all lose what we’ve been lucky enough as a nation to have had in the past. Jerry

Response:

Jerry, I know where you’re going with your plea, and I respect that. But why attempt to turn something that was once and is no longer…wilderness, into what it cannot revert back to? It’s an oxymoron… congregating mass quantities of people into an area like Yellowstone renders it no longer a "wilderness" experience.

Well, the way I look at it is that the vast majority of visitors to the park don’t even get into the "back country"!  Many just drive the loops then stay in a motel for the night then head home.  So not that many people are spoiling the parks.  And the few who do make it back into the "wilderness" tend to take care of it.  It’s not a lost cause. Why not keep the truly unmolested areas as wilderness areas for all to see and experience, while leaving other areas not so pristine? Experiencing the wilderness is more of a mindset rather than an event. One (IMHO) cannot expect to funnel people in cars or any other form of mass transportation into an area and then proclaim it as a "wilderness past" experience. In almost every preserve…(I like that word better) type of area I’ve visited, it takes a day of hard paddling or strenuous hiking to get past the day trip mentality people, back to the areas where you really want to spend time exploring. In other words, you put the effort forth to find the "walden" that you seek, each seeker has his/her own expectations.

That’s exactly what I’m talking about. Again, IMHO the mere presence of people threatens the protections afforded the animals in the parks. Any man vs/ animal situation puts the animal at a disadvantage with regards to protections…it’s the human psyche that upsets the balance.

You’re right but just by having people present, doesn’t necessarily have to degrade the immediate environment for animals living there.  That’s where and why we have certain rules to follow to insure a quality experience in our parks.  Somethin’ worth fighting for. Jerry – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — Paul Schnettler

Response:

     Don’t know if many have been following a previous post on protections for our National Parks but it seems by the responses that various animals and objects within our parks are not fully protected!  I was always under the assumption that our National Parks were these "Cathedrals" set aside, forever for the people and also for preservation.  

I think I agree with your sentiments in general, but disagree with the notion that National Parks should be set aside as "Cathedrals". This is more the purpose of other types of protected areas. A National Park is not the same thing as a wilderness area, although it may contain such areas. The mission of the NPS is stated as: "…to promote and regulate the use of the…national parks…which     purpose is to conserve the scenery and the natural and historic objects     and the wild life therein and to provide for the enjoyment of the same in     such manner and by such means as will leave them unimpaired for the     enjoyment of future generations." A key to the statement is the "enjoyment" aspect. Most of our parks have been created around scenic wonders of the landscape, scenic wonders which people naturally want to go see. (Everglades NP, designated in 1947, was the first park created purely because of the plant and animal life, with supporters admitting that many would consider the scenery to be "confused and monotonous" – having been there twice, however, I can tell you that the abundance of plants and animal life is itself a scenic wonder!). Personally, I think it makes sense to try to make the parks as accessible as possible (within the bounds of leaving them "unimpaired"). The reason I say this is that our National Parks are probably the best school room we have for educating people on the need for protecting our wilderness. People who would dismiss me as a tree-hugger and not listen to anything I say will stop and take notice when they’re in a national park listening to a park ranger say the exact same thing. People of all political ideologies seem to have a great deal of respect for park rangers, and I don’t think I ever met a ranger who wasn’t a great deal concerned about protecting the environment. I read somewhere that the NPS considers invasive plants and animals to be a greater threat to the integrity of the park environments then the crush of human visitors. I don’t know if this is true, but I can easily believe it given the the human visitation is mostly limited to very small areas of the park and is completely within our control. So bring as many people as possible to the park and give them that environmental education. Yes, we do have to be always wary of many of the privatization schemes and other ways in which those hostile to environmental concerns would like to "Disnify" our parks, but I still believe we have to recognize that National Parks are, by their very design, places where we have to balance the needs of recreation and protection. – Bob C.

Response:

     Don’t know if many have been following a previous post on protections for our National Parks but it seems by the responses that various animals and objects within our parks are not fully protected!  I was always under the assumption that our National Parks were these "Cathedrals" set aside, forever for the people and also for preservation.  Not so.  So, when you see lobbyists trying to further degrade the only public place that should be held in trust for preservation AND public use that does not degrade your park, speak up.  All Americans have the right to get a glimpse of what the American wilderness used to be.  And future generations should also have the same expectations.      There is plenty of public land outside our National Parks where people can use the land for something other than preservation.  Here’s a "timely" quote from John Muir that perfectly fits various "These temple-destroyers, devotees of ravaging commercialism, seem to have a perfect contempt for Nature, and instead of lifting their eyes to the God of the mountains, lift them to the Almighty Dollar". Jerry

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –      Don’t know if many have been following a previous post on protections for our National Parks but it seems by the responses that various animals and objects within our parks are not fully protected!  I was always under the assumption that our National Parks were these "Cathedrals" set aside, forever for the people and also for preservation.  Not so.  So, when you see lobbyists trying to further degrade the only public place that should be held in trust for preservation AND public use that does not degrade your park, speak up.  All Americans have the right to get a glimpse of what the American wilderness used to be.  And future generations should also have the same expectations.      There is plenty of public land outside our National Parks where people can use the land for something other than preservation.  Here’s a "timely" quote from John Muir that perfectly fits various "These temple-destroyers, devotees of ravaging commercialism, seem to have a perfect contempt for Nature, and instead of lifting their eyes to the God of the mountains, lift them to the Almighty Dollar". Jerry

Jerry, I know where you’re going with your plea, and I respect that. But why attempt to turn something that was once and is no longer…wilderness, into what it cannot revert back to? It’s an oxymoron… congregating mass quantities of people into an area like Yellowstone renders it no longer a "wilderness" experience. Why not keep the truly unmolested areas as wilderness areas for all to see and experience, while leaving other areas not so pristine? Experiencing the wilderness is more of a mindset rather than an event. One (IMHO) cannot expect to funnel people in cars or any other form of mass transportation into an area and then proclaim it as a "wilderness past" experience. In almost every preserve…(I like that word better) type of area I’ve visited, it takes a day of hard paddling or strenuous hiking to get past the day trip mentality people, back to the areas where you really want to spend time exploring. In other words, you put the effort forth to find the "walden" that you seek, each seeker has his/her own expectations. Again, IMHO the mere presence of people threatens the protections afforded the animals in the parks. Any man vs/ animal situation puts the animal at a disadvantage with regards to protections…it’s the human psyche that upsets the balance. — Paul Schnettler

Response:

Question:

Hi, I’ve been on 50mg of Zoloft for 8 weeks which has worked great overall.  My only complaint is a lot of muscle tension.  It’s faded somewhat over these first 2 months, but is it likely to subside even more or am I probably stuck with it? Thanks! Fritz

Response:

Wow, I didn’t get the muscle tension.  I got an upset tummy and the runs for a few weeks and then that went away.  The only lingering side effect I have is lack of sex drive.  Hate it. Hope your tension goes away.  Good luck,  Amanda – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I’ve been on 50mg of Zoloft for 8 weeks which has worked great overall.  My only complaint is a lot of muscle tension.  It’s faded somewhat over these first 2 months, but is it likely to subside even more or am I probably stuck with it? Thanks! Fritz

Response:

For me zoloft killed my libido seemingly forever…I no longer have ‘the fire’ and i do miss it!! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wow, I didn’t get the muscle tension.  I got an upset tummy and the runs for a few weeks and then that went away.  The only lingering side effect I have is lack of sex drive.  Hate it. Hope your tension goes away.  Good luck,  Amanda Hi, I’ve been on 50mg of Zoloft for 8 weeks which has worked great overall.  My only complaint is a lot of muscle tension.  It’s faded somewhat over these first 2 months, but is it likely to subside even more or am I probably stuck with it? Thanks! Fritz

Response:

Wow. I’m glad it wasn’t just me. My doctor warned me about it, but I figured that it was more important to get through every day with a clear head than get a little action once a month. That’s my only side effect, but it’s a doozy! ~Paul For me zoloft killed my libido seemingly forever…I no longer have ‘the fire’ and i do miss it!!

The only lingering side effect – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have is lack of sex drive.  Hate it.

Response:

Question:

Anne Haas wrote:

. I wish some talk show host would do a program called "MOVE THE HELL ON, THAT WAS 20 YEARS AGO." Anne Anne, you are my hero also.  I wanna be like you when (if) I ever grow up.  :-)

DITTO!  :-) Joanne

Response:

Indyguy1 wrote:

Well, then you haven’t been reading all the threads. I posted a number of time times prior to the Jennifer thread in the past week or so. In fact Anne R asked me a week or so ago where the heck I’d been.

Well, I did. I don’t know where this bit about you being a troll got started, but I personally have gotten quite a bit out of your posts in the past. I did think you were a little harsh to Jennifer there, she’s in a tough situation and dont’ forget she’s very young too. I remember being in love at 22, I’d go back there in a second! But I’ve also learned a lot of very tough things in these 28-33 years, and a LOT of them I didn’t know and wouldn’t have accepted at the beginning of my relationship. Some people arent’ ready to give up the pain. But I never thought of you as a troll… is somebody saying I did? Is that why my name came up? I was glad you were back when you started posting again! Anne

Response:

Anne wrote:

Indyguy1 wrote: Well, then you haven’t been reading all the threads. I posted a number of time times prior to the Jennifer thread in the past week or so. In fact Anne R asked me a week or so ago where the heck I’d been. Well, I did.

Thanks for backing me up.:)  I don’t know where this bit about you being a troll got started,

but I personally have gotten quite a bit out of your posts in the past.

Thank you and I from yours.:) Not to mention a number of belly laughs! You are one funny lady!  I did think

you were a little harsh to Jennifer there,

I agree and I did apologize.  she’s in a tough situation and dont’ forget

she’s very young too. I remember being in love at 22, I’d go back there in a second!

LOL I should be so lucky to be able to remember that far aback.:)  But

I’ve also learned a lot of very tough things in these 28-33 years, and a LOT of them I didn’t know and wouldn’t have accepted at the beginning of my

relationship.

Some people arent’ ready to give up the pain.

How true.

But I never thought of you as a troll… is somebody saying I did?

No. Apparently lil and Geri were discussing that I was most likely a troll. I guess lil also brought it up at Shay’s baby shower.  Is that

why my name came up?

No *I* brought up your name as I knew you would remember I had posted prior to the infamous Jennifer thread. Lil had thought I had not posted in a long while and felt I caused some sort of riff between her and Merrie and then wasn’t around again until this Jennifer thing. Leading her to asssume I was a troll. I was glad you were back when you started posting again! Thanks for saying that Anne. Indy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Anne

Response:

I, for one, have a HUGE problem with this.  When Mike and I were having problems, you could have never, ever, ever convinced me that Tori was better off with a f— up for a dad and a mother who did everything.  I was a single parent in a two parent home.  When he told me that he’d give up his parental rights in order NOT to pay CS, I was so thrilled!  I’d have gone with that deal in a heart beat! I was NOT going to stay in a marriage where I was cussed out daily, told that HIS son was perfect and it was ME that had the problem, one night I had a boot shoved in my face because MY dog chewed it up.  I can remember another night I was sick and asked Mike to let Tori lie with him for a minute.  I’m in the bathroom throwing up, Tori’s crying – and he’s yelling at her for crying! Yeah, this is a marriage I would have stayed in for my child’s sake.  Don’t think so.  My daughter would have been better off without the father, thank you very much. Of course, since Mike has gotten his act together, Tori likes the father he’s become and Mike has realized that everyone making excuses for his son has given him a reason NOT to accept responsibility for his problems (hence, the running away because he got caught with drugs – it’s easier to run than deal with the consequences). Unfortunately, my SS had 13 1/2 years to have everyone feel sorry for him and justify WHY he shouldn’t have to face consequences for his actions. Lying?  Oh, that’s just him – he lies so much, I don’t think he knows how to tell the truth any more.  Stealing?  Oh, no, he’d never do that. Yeah, we’re trying to work on the marriage, but between the son’s attitude, Mike’s parents attitude of we can do no right and SS can do no wrong, and the ex’s attitude of she’s a better parent – there are days I’d rather live in Alaska than continue this marriage. "Indyguy1" <indyg…@aol.com

wrote in message

news:20001019014520.00976.00000407@ng-fo1.aol.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

I think Brian has a copy of one of her studies stating that she feels

that

parents should stay in bad marriages for their childrens’ sakes.  (Unless there is domestic violence, child abuse or drug use.) From my understanding she feels couples should try their best to work out

their

differances for the sake of everyone, including themselves, in families. Do you have a problem with this train of thought, Geri?

Response:

"Wendy A. S. Taylor" <ccx…@coventry.ac.uk

wrote in message

news:8smkc6$fq0$1@leofric.coventry.ac.uk…

Well I have to say that I didn’t read anything offensive, or troll like in her post.

Did you read anything particularly helpful or supportive in it?  I didn’t.

It’s your perogative to killfile her if you want, but why say so on the newsgroup.

Um…because it came up in a conversation with Geri?  Did it offend you in some way I don’t know about?  Is there some new content bylaw on here that I maybe missed?

 Other people can and will make their own minds up about who and what to read.

Of course they can.  Good Lord, where was it I said that everyone should ignore her or kill her?  Geri said that she suspected that she was a troll and I commented that I thought so too.  I changed the subject because I was no longer discussing Oprah. Get a grip, hon.  When exactly did you become the newsgroup police? lil — "It’s hard when you discover what keeps you going keeps you all alone."  – Blue Rodeo

Response:

Anne Robotti <robo…@worldnet.att.net

wrote in message

news:39EEE01B.3E8E08C3@worldnet.att.net… I wish some talk show host would do a program called "MOVE THE

HELL ON, THAT WAS 20 YEARS AGO."

Anne anne anne anne anne – ROFLLL.

Response:

"rebecca" <justrebec…@yahoo.com

wrote in message

news:1pGH5.8713$ji3.197226@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net…

Hmm… lil, I always thought Al was pretty reasonable

Alan *was* pretty reasonable.  But his character wasn’t consistent. For instance, he was only more than happy to trash Enricho Suave for his comments, but before he left he jumped down our throats for the way *we* responded to him. There’s more, but it’s kind of hard to explain.  It was never intended to start a major discussion, I was just making a comment.  :-) lil — "It’s hard when you discover what keeps you going keeps you all alone."  – Blue Rodeo

Response:

Hey Tea, I’m sure I won’t be the only one saying this. Mediation..(and Vicki will correct me if I’m wrong, hopefully) Mediation is a fabulous avenue for parents like you, who are *able* to agree, and can set "looser" terms to the children’s custody schedules. However, if you’ve been lurking long, you’ll have already found that a large part of this group comes from situations that this would be impossible…and unfortunately the courts do have to have the end say. Even then, justice or fairness doesn’t always happen. So..basically you are correct, the system assumes there is a war going on, because if there is no prior agreement reached…that is the ground the courts see them on. ange In article <gKFH5.112147$47.1480…@news.bc.tac.net

,

  "Hilander" <hilan…@block.lightspeed.ca

wrote:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

"Indyguy1" <indyg…@aol.com wrote in message news:20001019014520.00976.00000407@ng-fo1.aol.com… But regarless of Wallerstien’s feelings on who should divorce and

who

shouldn’t, the results of her findings on how divorce and the way

parents

act post-divorce stand on their own. This is a valid point. My ex and I are not yet legally divorced [can't afford it financially

at

this time] but have been living seperate and apart for almost 5 years. We’ve both looked into doing it ourselves but are afraid that we might

get

something wrong on the paper and can’t afford [financially] to be

making

those kinds of mistakes only to have to do it again. What gets both of us is how the ’system’ is set up.  We do get along

fairly

well as people but as parents, we are both on the same page and have

no

problems.  The ’system’ however, not only assumes there must be a

‘war’ but

there is so much there that we believe provokes negative feelings when

there

needn’t be. We have joint custody and guardianship.  We do NOT like the idea of

courts

telling either of us when we can or can’t see kids because we have

always

worked it out verbally with no problems and we can’t imagine how

difficult

it must be on adults as well as kids if there is no flexibility.  Life

is

not static.  It is dynamic! But the papers we looked at default to one parent or the other having

’sole

custody’.  Why?  If we were ‘pushed’ into that route [through lawyers, family and friends] then I can see how it would cause negative

feelings

because your mind is then tuned to look for ‘negatives’ in one parent

over

the other as a parent.  Not healthy. At a time like that, wouldn’t it be better for kids if the system

helped

promote and celebrate the *strengths* of both parents and how those strengths could compliment and work well with each other as parents?! I don’t want a piece of paper telling me that ex can only see kids on weekends.  What if they have a weekday off from school and dad has

tickets

to the hockey game?  What if one of the kids has been invited to a

birthday

party on the weekend and doesn’t want to go away that day? While in some cases, the personality of the individual parents may be

a big

problem for the divorce process and/or seperation, I also see that the system and even societal attitude towards divorce/seperation pushes

people

into seperate corners of the mat when they might not have gone there

in the

first place. I don’t think seperation/divorce is bad for kids, however, the current process and aftermath as it is set up today I do believe has a

detrimental

effect on *everyone* involved unless they actively and consciously

work

around/against the system. Chat later, Tea

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

Response:

On Thu, 19 Oct 2000 01:47:52 -0700, "lilblakdog" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -<lbdcreati…@dog.com

wrote: "Geri and Brian" <gplen…@aol.comicrelief wrote in message news:20001019034446.05269.00000435@ng-cb1.aol.com… Are you a troll? Indy showed up just as Alan Moore and his wife disappeared (and, quite frankly, I had my doubts about *their* sincerity, as *they* showed up just as Enricho Suave disappeared).  She was sticking up for Alan’s wife by asking us not to use the term biomom to differentiate, because we *weren’t* mothers in any way, shape or form. She had a couple of serious sounding posts, one of which started something of a dispute between Merrie and I.  I couldn’t help but notice that *during* this dispute, Indy was nowhere to be seen.  When I was down in Tacoma for Shay’s baby shower, I’d mentioned that I suspected that she was just trolling. Her response to Jennifer/John Durden is the first one of her posts that I’ve read since, and her tactic has changed rather severely from the concerned great-aunt who doesn’t want to offend anybody.  So now I’m basically certain that she *is* a troll and will be blocking her posts.

Oh shut teh hell up. YOur ignorant McCarthyesque accusations are pathetic at best. STop trying to be a netcop. Loev, Poopie Pants

Response:

Geri wrote:

Do you have a problem with this train of thought, Geri? I don’t have a strong opinion about it one way or the other.  Are you a troll?

Nope. But I see you’d like to portray me as one, seeing as I don’t always agree with the way you see and do things.

You are rude to everyone.

Everyone? Hardly. Indy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

lil wrote:

"Geri and Brian" <gplen…@aol.comicrelief wrote in message news:20001019034446.05269.00000435@ng-cb1.aol.com… Are you a troll? Indy showed up just as Alan Moore and his wife disappeared (and, quite frankly, I had my doubts about *their* sincerity, as *they* showed up just as Enricho Suave disappeared).  She was sticking up for Alan’s wife by asking us not to use the term biomom to differentiate, because we *weren’t* mothers in any way, shape or form.

Uh, excuse me. I do not know the people you speak of. I don’t even remember much of the thread. But I do remember I did NOT say step-mothers were not mothers in any way shape or form.

She had a couple of serious sounding posts, one of which started something of a dispute between Merrie and I.

I don’t recall any dispute between you and Merrie. But then again I am not a constant on this ng. And if you and Merrie disagree or any other posters on this or any other ng it is between the two of you or them not anyone else. And anything *I* post about or respond to I consider serious.  I couldn’t help but notice that *during*

this dispute, Indy was nowhere to be seen.

Well hang me out to dry because I don’t check in here as often as others do. Geesh  When I was down in Tacoma for

Shay’s baby shower, I’d mentioned that I suspected that she was just trolling.

I thought trolls came in and stirred up trouble then left. I asked questions. I gave comments. I come back because of our nephew and the mess he is in. There are some here that I really value their opinion. You were one of them. You might want to check the 15 years hence thread and see the compliment I paid you, earlier this week or last week.

Her response to Jennifer/John Durden is the first one of her posts that I’ve read since,

Well, then you haven’t been reading all the threads. I posted a number of time times prior to the Jennifer thread in the past week or so. In fact Anne R asked me a week or so ago where the heck I’d been. and her tactic has changed rather severely from the concerned

great-aunt who doesn’t want to offend anybody.

I’m usually very calm in my responces on this ng. There was something that really bothered me about Jennifer’s stance on her b/f’s children, their mother and her role in the boy’s lives. Maybe it was her arrogance or the desire for her to see the boy’s mother out of their lives after only being their dad’s g/f for about one year, I’m not sure. But in the mean time I did apologize to her. Although from reading the way she responds to many of the good solid ideas she has been given it looks like she may not want any helpful sugestions, afterall.   So now I’m basically certain

that she *is* a troll and will be blocking her posts.

If you choose to block my posts, Lil, that is your perogative. But to think I am a troll is not only false but really less than I expected of you. Indy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

lil

Response:

In a previous article, "Hilander" <hilan…@block.lightspeed.ca

said:

<I don’t want a piece of paper telling me that ex can only see kids on <weekends.  What if they have a weekday off from school and dad has tickets <to the hockey game?  What if one of the kids has been invited to a birthday <party on the weekend and doesn’t want to go away that day? Then so what?  One of the things I stress with my mediation clients is that the agreement is for both of them, and that the separation police aren’t going to be checking to see if parenting time is going to go the way the document says it does.  The doc is there to set basic expectations and to satisfy the court that everyone has knowledge of the important things.  You can put it into practice **any** way that you and your ex want to.  Any way at all.  Total freedom to do that. See a mediator.  It makes divorce *much* cheaper, especially when you and your ex get along as well as you seem to.  Any competent mediator can put all the flexibility you want in your agreement. Vicki — Bring Dejanews back to life!  See the petition at http://www2.petitionsonline.com/dejanews/petition.html and sign it. Help bring back a valuable Usenet resource!

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Do these whining *adult* brats think they would have been any happier in a home where their parents were two miserable people who *should* have been divorced? Been there, done that, NEVER going back. One of the things I always promised myself I’d do for my children is have the strength and courage to get divorced if their Dad and I really couldn’t work things out. I made this promise to myself when I was *nine years old.* If kids need counseling to get them through the divorce, to help them cope, I’m all for it. But this Oprah thing is going to be another attempt to excuse these people’s actions as adults because of their pain as a child. I had pain as a child too, every- body did. I wish some talk show host would do a program called "MOVE THE HELL ON, THAT WAS 20 YEARS AGO." Anne

Anne, you are my hero also.  I wanna be like you when (if) I ever grow up.  :-) Anne H. "To the world you might be one person, but to one person you might be  the world."

Response:

"Indyguy1" <indyg…@aol.com

wrote in message

news:20001019014520.00976.00000407@ng-fo1.aol.com…

But regarless of Wallerstien’s feelings on who should divorce and who shouldn’t, the results of her findings on how divorce and the way parents

act

post-divorce stand on their own.

This is a valid point. My ex and I are not yet legally divorced [can't afford it financially at this time] but have been living seperate and apart for almost 5 years. We’ve both looked into doing it ourselves but are afraid that we might get something wrong on the paper and can’t afford [financially] to be making those kinds of mistakes only to have to do it again. What gets both of us is how the ’system’ is set up.  We do get along fairly well as people but as parents, we are both on the same page and have no problems.  The ’system’ however, not only assumes there must be a ‘war’ but there is so much there that we believe provokes negative feelings when there needn’t be. We have joint custody and guardianship.  We do NOT like the idea of courts telling either of us when we can or can’t see kids because we have always worked it out verbally with no problems and we can’t imagine how difficult it must be on adults as well as kids if there is no flexibility.  Life is not static.  It is dynamic! But the papers we looked at default to one parent or the other having ’sole custody’.  Why?  If we were ‘pushed’ into that route [through lawyers, family and friends] then I can see how it would cause negative feelings because your mind is then tuned to look for ‘negatives’ in one parent over the other as a parent.  Not healthy. At a time like that, wouldn’t it be better for kids if the system helped promote and celebrate the *strengths* of both parents and how those strengths could compliment and work well with each other as parents?! I don’t want a piece of paper telling me that ex can only see kids on weekends.  What if they have a weekday off from school and dad has tickets to the hockey game?  What if one of the kids has been invited to a birthday party on the weekend and doesn’t want to go away that day? While in some cases, the personality of the individual parents may be a big problem for the divorce process and/or seperation, I also see that the system and even societal attitude towards divorce/seperation pushes people into seperate corners of the mat when they might not have gone there in the first place. I don’t think seperation/divorce is bad for kids, however, the current process and aftermath as it is set up today I do believe has a detrimental effect on *everyone* involved unless they actively and consciously work around/against the system. Chat later, Tea

Response:

lilblakdog <lbdcreati…@dog.com

wrote in message

news:tyyH5.1009$sq4.23642@newscontent-01.sprint.ca…

Indy showed up just as Alan Moore and his wife disappeared (and, quite frankly, I had my doubts about *their* sincerity, as *they* showed up just as Enricho Suave disappeared).  She was sticking up for Alan’s wife by asking us not to use the term biomom to differentiate, because we

*weren’t*

mothers in any way, shape or form.

Hmm… lil, I always thought Al was pretty reasonable, and IIRC, everyone _did_ jump straight down his wife’s (Ginny?) throat for whatever comment she made. Go figger.

Response:

Tommorrow morning author Judith Wallerstien will be on Oprah tommorrow. Her latest book, The Unexpected Legacy of Divorce, uncovers many of the feelings children of divorce have towards divorce and the way their lives went after their parents divorced.

I think Brian has a copy of one of her studies stating that she feels that parents should stay in bad marriages for their childrens’ sakes.  (Unless there is domestic violence, child abuse or drug use.)   ~~~~~~~~~~ Geri   ^   ^      

 ’  ’ <

"There is no snooze button on a cat who wants breakfast."- Anonymous ~~~~~~~~~~

Response:

Geri wrote:

Tommorrow morning author Judith Wallerstien will be on Oprah tommorrow. Her latest book, The Unexpected Legacy of Divorce, uncovers many of the feelings children of divorce have towards divorce and the way their lives went after their parents divorced. I think Brian has a copy of one of her studies stating that she feels that parents should stay in bad marriages for their childrens’ sakes.  (Unless there is domestic violence, child abuse or drug use.)  

From my understanding she feels couples should try their best to work out their differances for the sake of everyone, including themselves, in families. Do you have a problem with this train of thought, Geri? But regarless of Wallerstien’s feelings on who should divorce and who shouldn’t, the results of her findings on how divorce and the way parents act post-divorce stand on their own. Gee, I wonder if the poor results of children of divorce that she followed for 25 years could be part of the reason she would prefer to see families stick together? Indy

Response:

Do you have a problem with this train of thought, Geri?

I don’t have a strong opinion about it one way or the other.  Are you a troll? You are rude to everyone. ~~~~~~~~~~ Geri   ^   ^      

 ’  ’ <

"There is no snooze button on a cat who wants breakfast."- Anonymous ~~~~~~~~~~

Response:

"Geri and Brian" <gplen…@aol.comicrelief

wrote in message

news:20001019034446.05269.00000435@ng-cb1.aol.com…

Are you a troll?

Indy showed up just as Alan Moore and his wife disappeared (and, quite frankly, I had my doubts about *their* sincerity, as *they* showed up just as Enricho Suave disappeared).  She was sticking up for Alan’s wife by asking us not to use the term biomom to differentiate, because we *weren’t* mothers in any way, shape or form. She had a couple of serious sounding posts, one of which started something of a dispute between Merrie and I.  I couldn’t help but notice that *during* this dispute, Indy was nowhere to be seen.  When I was down in Tacoma for Shay’s baby shower, I’d mentioned that I suspected that she was just trolling. Her response to Jennifer/John Durden is the first one of her posts that I’ve read since, and her tactic has changed rather severely from the concerned great-aunt who doesn’t want to offend anybody.  So now I’m basically certain that she *is* a troll and will be blocking her posts. lil — "It’s hard when you discover what keeps you going keeps you all alone."  – Blue Rodeo

Response:

In article <tyyH5.1009$sq4.23…@newscontent-01.sprint.ca

,

lilblakdog <lbdcreati…@dog.com

wrote: Her response to Jennifer/John Durden is the first one of her posts that I’ve read since, and her tactic has changed rather severely from the concerned great-aunt who doesn’t want to offend anybody.  So now I’m basically certain that she *is* a troll and will be blocking her posts.

Well I have to say that I didn’t read anything offensive, or troll like in her post.   It’s your perogative to killfile her if you want, but why say so on the newsgroup.  Other people can and will make their own minds up about who and what to read. Wendy

Response:

In article <20001018220913.15571.00000…@ng-cv1.aol.com

, posted 19 Oct

2000 02:09:13 GMT, Geri and Brian says…

Tommorrow morning author Judith Wallerstien will be on Oprah tommorrow. Her latest book, The Unexpected Legacy of Divorce, uncovers many of the feelings children of divorce have towards divorce and the way their lives went after their parents divorced. I think Brian has a copy of one of her studies stating that she feels that parents should stay in bad marriages for their childrens’ sakes.  (Unless there is domestic violence, child abuse or drug use.)  

You know, my mother stayed in her marriage for her children’s sake, for my sake. I unconsciously learned that I was responsible for my mother’s unhappy life. I heard about her sacrifice almost every day. It took me six years after leaving to realise that I was in a land of psychological torture, and I’m still dealing with the crap ten years later. If Wallerstein has a study stating that people should stay in unhappy marriages for the children’s sake, she’s shot herself in the foot. K**** — Quotes of a five year old girl: "I felt some wriggly things on my head but they were only my own two fingers playing with themselves. I thought it might be a worm."

Response:

In article <39EEDB73.246C…@ntcorp.com

, Karla  <ka…@ntcorp.com wrote: Gee, I wonder if the poor results of children of divorce that she followed for 25 years could be part of the reason she would prefer to see families stick together? I know that one of the flaws in the scientific method is that people tend to skew results to support their hypothesis…especially in the social sciences.  It’s too bad because the scientific method is supposed

The social sciences are very difficult to be scientific in because it is almost impossible to control extraneous factors.

to allow you the chance to examine data to see if your hypothesis is right or wrong, but because of the way grant money and other financial resources tied to "results," people now actively skew the data to support their hypothesis or risk becoming labeled as a non-producer and loosing financial support.

This is true even in the sciences.

Mark Twain said there are three types of lies: Lies, damned lies and statistics.  There’s a reason for that.  I’ve worked in marketing, I know that you tell the "professionals" what you want to prove and they find the data to support your findings.  

One of my favourite authors.

The main criticism I have read on this book (I’m on the waiting list for the book, so I haven’t read it yet) is that her conclusions are flawed due to unequal comparisions.  In other words, she’s not comparing apples and apples, she’s comparing apples and oranges and declaring that the apples rule.

I haven’t read the book, nor seen the programme, but I have done quite a lot of reading on the subject of academic performance and divorce This is quite an interesting URL:  www.prospect.org/archives/18/18mcla.html I know it is harder to supervise two children doing homework, on my own, and still make sure supper, dishes, etc. all get done.  I know that I can’t control what is being done at my ex’s, though this isn’t to say that he doesn’t care or try in his own fashion. After the counselling you went through, Karla, did they give any counselling/advice for you and your ex for co-parenting thereafter? Wendy

Response:

I have been reading the threads started by Judith. I understand her pain and dissapointment because of her adult children’s actions. Perhaps by understanding more about the long lasting effects of divorce on children and how children may not be as reslient as some adults who have divorced wish to believe they are many step-parents, along with birth-parents, can understand more fully why adult children do and say the things they do and say. Not that I am saying Judith’s kids were correct in their treatment of her, as I don’t feel they were. Tommorrow morning author Judith Wallerstien will be on Oprah tommorrow. Her latest book, The Unexpected Legacy of Divorce, uncovers many of the feelings children of divorce have towards divorce and the way their lives went after their parents divorced. The people she speaks with and about in her books are now adults. She followed them from the time of divorce in their childhood into adulthood. I don’t know if steps will be addressed in her interview, but even if they aren’t, I’m sure this show will give all parents who raise or help raise children that have been touched by divorce a better idea of what divorce does to children and how the parent’s actions impact the children’s lives into adulthood. This might be worth taping if you won’t be home when Oprah is on. Heck, it might be good enough that your spouse and you should view it together! If it’s *really* good it might be worth sending a copy to your ex or your spouses ex.:) Indy (who already read the book and can’t wait for the interview!)

Response:

Sorry Indy, but OH GAG! I know I’m going to sound just evil when I say this, but I’m sick of bending over backwards to understand the effects of divorce on the poor little angels. Sometimes people get divorced, sometimes people die, and I just think it’s a symptom of everything that’s wrong with our society that we coddle kids through this and excuse their most selfish actions by trying to "understand their point of view." Do these whining *adult* brats think they would have been any happier in a home where their parents were two miserable people who *should* have been divorced? Been there, done that, NEVER going back. One of the things I always promised myself I’d do for my children is have the strength and courage to get divorced if their Dad and I really couldn’t work things out. I made this promise to myself when I was *nine years old.* If kids need counseling to get them through the divorce, to help them cope, I’m all for it. But this Oprah thing is going to be another attempt to excuse these people’s actions as adults because of their pain as a child. I had pain as a child too, every- body did. I wish some talk show host would do a program called "MOVE THE HELL ON, THAT WAS 20 YEARS AGO." Anne – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Indyguy1 wrote:

I have been reading the threads started by Judith. I understand her pain and dissapointment because of her adult children’s actions. Perhaps by understanding more about the long lasting effects of divorce on children and how children may not be as reslient as some adults who have divorced wish to believe they are many step-parents, along with birth-parents, can understand more fully why adult children do and say the things they do and say. Not that I am saying Judith’s kids were correct in their treatment of her, as I don’t feel they were. Tommorrow morning author Judith Wallerstien will be on Oprah tommorrow. Her latest book, The Unexpected Legacy of Divorce, uncovers many of the feelings children of divorce have towards divorce and the way their lives went after their parents divorced. The people she speaks with and about in her books are now adults. She followed them from the time of divorce in their childhood into adulthood. I don’t know if steps will be addressed in her interview, but even if they aren’t, I’m sure this show will give all parents who raise or help raise children that have been touched by divorce a better idea of what divorce does to children and how the parent’s actions impact the children’s lives into adulthood. This might be worth taping if you won’t be home when Oprah is on. Heck, it might be good enough that your spouse and you should view it together! If it’s *really* good it might be worth sending a copy to your ex or your spouses ex.:) Indy (who already read the book and can’t wait for the interview!)

Response:

I think the data is useless without the proper comparison – which wouldn’t be happy families that stayed together, but rather families that stayed together and should have been divorced. I think her findings are faulty.  How can she determine if the poor results of children are due the divorce rather than the bad relationship between the parents?  Where are the results of children raised by acrimonious parents that didn’t divorce?  How can we quantify the level of acrimony so that we can isolate that from divorce and be able to distinguish if it’s divorce that’s causative or the acrimony? Merrie Indyguy1 <indyg…@aol.com

wrote in message

news:20001019014520.00976.00000407@ng-fo1.aol.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

But regarless of Wallerstien’s feelings on who should divorce and who shouldn’t, the results of her findings on how divorce and the way parents

act

post-divorce stand on their own. Gee, I wonder if the poor results of children of divorce that she followed

for

25 years could be part of the reason she would prefer to see families

stick

together? Indy

Response:

Question:

I am not sure why I am telling all of you this, I guess I am ready to have some of you know you are not alone in this misery, it may manifest itself in different ways but we are all in a place that isn’t funny…my rants or laughter at most craziness in my life is just a way for me to cope with all the crap that has happened.

Thankyou Cherly I am not sure why you posted this but I am glad you did.  I have posted some off my hell here and revealed a bit more on anx/pan.  One day I hope to be able to reveal all off me but I am not ready for that yet.  A big milestone for me was putting my pic on the ASAP gallery. I love your posts and your very naturalness, your pure humanity. Simon

Response:

guarding angel. Love Cathy — P.H.O.B.I.A. People Helping Others Become Independent Again Off-line Self Help Support Group, NJ http://community.nj.com/cc/phobia Anxiety Treatment Options http://www.members.tripod.com/~PhobiaGroup/index.html

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It started when they put a big fat tube in my abdominal cavityfor peritoneal dialysis…then when things got bad(I got very very ill) they put a nice catheter in my upper chest and told me not to get that wet(infection) so taking a shower was not an option…For some reason, don’t ask my why,I became so germophobic with all of these tubes hanging out of me and recent surgery on my left arm(to make an access for hemodialysis) just rendered me simple.  I made my step dad take out the shower doors and then we put up a curtain and I would hand shower with the thing open freezing my ass off but that is how I did it.  It took me HOURS to get into the shower, I had to pop pain pills after awhile to escape the fear and quirks I was developing.  I finally would have such a "icky" phobia I could barely touch Christa, Ted, any human or any surface..I would just have others help out while I sat and rocked in my chair.  It was a hell I will never go back to I don’t care what I have to take or do.  Finally I made myself just get in there and that took a long time to conquer, the removal of all tubes was of course, another breakthrough.  While I was doing this I was digging at my head, tearing my head up just to feel something.  I had so many sores on my head I had to let my hair grow long as I couldn’t even brush it. Only Margrove and a couple of others knows this.  He helped me get over through it and it’s nice to have my hair short and my head free of pain.  It hurt me so much I would get migraines  I would wake up with blood everywhere…my poor husband was just at a loss.  So when some idiot tells me I should kick the benzo or SSRI thing I just want to take him back to the time I sat in a chair every day for a fucking year with bloody nails, dirty body and depression that was leading to suicide and make him or her sit with me. I wish more than anything I could have done it myself or without meds, but I couldn’t.  But yes, you are not alone with the shower thing… I am so happy to be as far as I am. I am thankful to God that I can run my hands through my hair and not feel potholes of blood. I am not sure why I am telling all of you this, I guess I am ready to have some of you know you are not alone in this misery, it may manifest itself in different ways but we are all in a place that isn’t funny…my rants or laughter at most craziness in my life is just a way for me to cope with all the crap that has happened. Cheryl love, you *have* come a very long way indeed…..you’re a real survivor and such a sweet and witty and lovable person. It’s a joy to know you. Our learned friend Margrove – sometimes it *must* be said – is a true marvel. He helped so many here both in public and in private email… we had *professionals* here before but never like this, engaging into ASAP dynamics and giving so much without ever being patronizing and you can even have fun with him. I’ll stop here because otherwise he might get too big for his boots <g but I think we all should realize what a true *treasure* we have for a friend…. Philip — TC3 ~~snipped~~ I would spend six hours trying to get into my shower and probably spend the rest of my life in this condo without ever leaving. Ahhhh, so I am NOT strange to hate the shower now!!  I feel much better knowing it isn’t just me! R Til Later…. ~~R "What makes us discontented with our condition is the absurdly exaggerated idea we have of the happiness of others"   -Proverbs

Response:

Oh Cheryl honey, I never knew things were that bad for you.  I commend you on your openness and courage.  These anti-benzo people have no idea how they are effecting us.  Right now I am tapering off Effexor XR with the help of a Benzo, if I didn’t have my Xanax I would be in the ER every night. Love Ya Cathy — P.H.O.B.I.A. People Helping Others Become Independent Again Off-line Self Help Support Group, NJ http://community.nj.com/cc/phobia Anxiety Treatment Options http://www.members.tripod.com/~PhobiaGroup/index.html

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It started when they put a big fat tube in my abdominal cavityfor peritoneal dialysis…then when things got bad(I got very very ill) they put a nice catheter in my upper chest and told me not to get that wet(infection) so taking a shower was not an option…For some reason, don’t ask my why,I became so germophobic with all of these tubes hanging out of me and recent surgery on my left arm(to make an access for hemodialysis) just rendered me simple.  I made my step dad take out the shower doors and then we put up a curtain and I would hand shower with the thing open freezing my ass off but that is how I did it.  It took me HOURS to get into the shower, I had to pop pain pills after awhile to escape the fear and quirks I was developing.  I finally would have such a "icky" phobia I could barely touch Christa, Ted, any human or any surface..I would just have others help out while I sat and rocked in my chair.  It was a hell I will never go back to I don’t care what I have to take or do.  Finally I made myself just get in there and that took a long time to conquer, the removal of all tubes was of course, another breakthrough.  While I was doing this I was digging at my head, tearing my head up just to feel something.  I had so many sores on my head I had to let my hair grow long as I couldn’t even brush it. Only Margrove and a couple of others knows this.  He helped me get over through it and it’s nice to have my hair short and my head free of pain.  It hurt me so much I would get migraines  I would wake up with blood everywhere…my poor husband was just at a loss.  So when some idiot tells me I should kick the benzo or SSRI thing I just want to take him back to the time I sat in a chair every day for a fucking year with bloody nails, dirty body and depression that was leading to suicide and make him or her sit with me. I wish more than anything I could have done it myself or without meds, but I couldn’t.  But yes, you are not alone with the shower thing… I am so happy to be as far as I am. I am thankful to God that I can run my hands through my hair and not feel potholes of blood. I am not sure why I am telling all of you this, I guess I am ready to have some of you know you are not alone in this misery, it may manifest itself in different ways but we are all in a place that isn’t funny…my rants or laughter at most craziness in my life is just a way for me to cope with all the crap that has happened. — TC3 ~~snipped~~ I would spend six hours trying to get into my shower and probably spend the rest of my life in this condo without ever leaving. Ahhhh, so I am NOT strange to hate the shower now!!  I feel much better knowing it isn’t just me! R Til Later…. ~~R "What makes us discontented with our condition is the absurdly exaggerated idea we have of the happiness of others"   -Proverbs

Response:

Hi, Dot, Squid – YUK!  but I have always said whatever it would take to overcome pd would be something I would do – even if it meant squid…  You know what I mean. smiles, elise

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – {{{{{Dot}}}}}} Could you imagine ingesting squid when the PA hit? GAG. Thank you Dot, coming from you makes this special.  And you know what, all of you could do what I did, it took a lot of praying, yakking away on here and of course, bugging Margrove to death.  :o) Love Cheryl — TC3 If squid with Grey Poupon(sp) on rice cakes cured this misery, I would eat it three times a day. IF Snickers was a cure…oh my…I won’t even go there!  I think we are all unique, some can do this without meds, some of us can’t, I can’t. If I go off at this point I will end up doing a destructive behavior that was difficult to stop, I would spend six hours trying to get into my shower and probably spend the rest of my life in this condo without ever leaving.  Fuck that(excuse my dirty mouth) I will stick to my meds until *I* know it’s time to try to fly alone.  That may not be ever so I am willing to deal with THAT later.  I have been through too much in the physical sense too and with that came issues of dying and other life threatening scenes, if ativan and remeron keep me from living and not dwelling on dying  then so be it.  And yes, laughter is the very best medicine and VERY addicting…  :o) — TC3 sorry to make light, just trying to make you all laugh a bit. We are all so differently made, unique in many ways, isn’t that the fun part of the human race?  Again, many different kinds of people with varied pasts and experiences.. .many differently types of treatments, therapies, and meds.  Hmmm. . . . — David (swirling_eddies) Very well spoken, Cheryl.  Dealing with your physical problems in addition to PD would be more than I could take, I’m afraid.  We are so lucky to live at a time when there are good meds (and good transplants)! I don’t know about the squid though… Love, Dot Before you buy.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It started when they put a big fat tube in my abdominal cavityfor peritoneal dialysis…then when things got bad(I got very very ill) they put a nice catheter in my upper chest and told me not to get that wet(infection) so taking a shower was not an option…For some reason, don’t ask my why,I became so germophobic with all of these tubes hanging out of me and recent surgery on my left arm(to make an access for hemodialysis) just rendered me simple.  I made my step dad take out the shower doors and then we put up a curtain and I would hand shower with the thing open freezing my ass off but that is how I did it.  It took me HOURS to get into the shower, I had to pop pain pills after awhile to escape the fear and quirks I was developing.  I finally would have such a "icky" phobia I could barely touch Christa, Ted, any human or any surface..I would just have others help out while I sat and rocked in my chair.  It was a hell I will never go back to I don’t care what I have to take or do.  Finally I made myself just get in there and that took a long time to conquer, the removal of all tubes was of course, another breakthrough.  While I was doing this I was digging at my head, tearing my head up just to feel something.  I had so many sores on my head I had to let my hair grow long as I couldn’t even brush it.  Only Margrove and a couple of others knows this.  He helped me get over through it and it’s nice to have my hair short and my head free of pain.  It hurt me so much I would get migraines  I would wake up with blood everywhere…my poor husband was just at a loss.  So when some idiot tells me I should kick the benzo or SSRI thing I just want to take him back to the time I sat in a chair every day for a fucking year with bloody nails, dirty body and depression that was leading to suicide and make him or her sit with me. I wish more than anything I could have done it myself or without meds, but I couldn’t.  But yes, you are not alone with the shower thing… I am so happy to be as far as I am. I am thankful to God that I can run my hands through my hair and not feel potholes of blood. I am not sure why I am telling all of you this, I guess I am ready to have some of you know you are not alone in this misery, it may manifest itself in different ways but we are all in a place that isn’t funny…my rants or laughter at most craziness in my life is just a way for me to cope with all the crap that has happened.

Cheryl love, you *have* come a very long way indeed…..you’re a real survivor and such a sweet and witty and lovable person. It’s a joy to know you. Our learned friend Margrove – sometimes it *must* be said – is a true marvel. He helped so many here both in public and in private email… we had *professionals* here before but never like this, engaging into ASAP dynamics and giving so much without ever being patronizing and you can even have fun with him. I’ll stop here because otherwise he might get too big for his boots <g but I think we all should realize what a true *treasure* we have for a friend…. Philip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — TC3 ~~snipped~~ I would spend six hours trying to get into my shower and probably spend the rest of my life in this condo without ever leaving. Ahhhh, so I am NOT strange to hate the shower now!!  I feel much better knowing it isn’t just me! R Til Later…. ~~R "What makes us discontented with our condition is the absurdly exaggerated idea we have of the happiness of others"   -Proverbs

Response:

Rita, From what I understand you start with a small dose – perhaps 1 Milky Way a day for 2 or 3 days then up the dose until you are feeling human again (Cheryl, Snickers can be used in place of the Milky Way)…  Unfortunately, you must do this for the rest of your life if you like it or not! smiles, Elise

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dear Eddie, oops, David…you said "get on chocolate."  Is that some sort of new med?  How long does it take to work and are there any side- effects?  What is the starting dose and will I become addicted to it? Inquiring minds want to know. Love, Rita sorry to make light, just trying to make you all laugh a bit. We are all so differently made, unique in many ways, isn’t that the fun part of the human race?  Again, many different kinds of people with varied pasts and experiences.. .many differently types of treatments, therapies, and meds.  Hmmm. . . . — David (swirling_eddies) Before you buy.

Response:

Cheryl, Your post is very sad but I appreciate the honesty and trust you have shared with us.  I am sorry you had to deal with such a difficult and ugly period in your life.  I totally agree, if it weren’t for meds I might as well not be here…  Life is easier to live with the meds but deep down inside of me everyday I wish I didn’t have to take them but it is a small price to pay for some happiness.  You have beenthrough SO much and I am proud of how you have handled everything life has sent your way. smiles, elise

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It started when they put a big fat tube in my abdominal cavityfor peritoneal dialysis…then when things got bad(I got very very ill) they put a nice catheter in my upper chest and told me not to get that wet(infection) so taking a shower was not an option…For some reason, don’t ask my why,I became so germophobic with all of these tubes hanging out of me and recent surgery on my left arm(to make an access for hemodialysis) just rendered me simple.  I made my step dad take out the shower doors and then we put up a curtain and I would hand shower with the thing open freezing my ass off but that is how I did it.  It took me HOURS to get into the shower, I had to pop pain pills after awhile to escape the fear and quirks I was developing.  I finally would have such a "icky" phobia I could barely touch Christa, Ted, any human or any surface..I would just have others help out while I sat and rocked in my chair.  It was a hell I will never go back to I don’t care what I have to take or do.  Finally I made myself just get in there and that took a long time to conquer, the removal of all tubes was of course, another breakthrough.  While I was doing this I was digging at my head, tearing my head up just to feel something.  I had so many sores on my head I had to let my hair grow long as I couldn’t even brush it. Only Margrove and a couple of others knows this.  He helped me get over through it and it’s nice to have my hair short and my head free of pain.  It hurt me so much I would get migraines  I would wake up with blood everywhere…my poor husband was just at a loss.  So when some idiot tells me I should kick the benzo or SSRI thing I just want to take him back to the time I sat in a chair every day for a fucking year with bloody nails, dirty body and depression that was leading to suicide and make him or her sit with me. I wish more than anything I could have done it myself or without meds, but I couldn’t.  But yes, you are not alone with the shower thing… I am so happy to be as far as I am. I am thankful to God that I can run my hands through my hair and not feel potholes of blood. I am not sure why I am telling all of you this, I guess I am ready to have some of you know you are not alone in this misery, it may manifest itself in different ways but we are all in a place that isn’t funny…my rants or laughter at most craziness in my life is just a way for me to cope with all the crap that has happened. — TC3 ~~snipped~~ I would spend six hours trying to get into my shower and probably spend the rest of my life in this condo without ever leaving. Ahhhh, so I am NOT strange to hate the shower now!!  I feel much better knowing it isn’t just me! R Til Later…. ~~R "What makes us discontented with our condition is the absurdly exaggerated idea we have of the happiness of others"   -Proverbs

Response:

– TC3

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – | If squid with Grey Poupon(sp) on rice cakes cured | this misery, I would eat it three times a day. | IF Snickers was a cure…oh my…I won’t even | go there!  I think we are all unique, some can | do this without meds, some of us can’t, I can’t. | If I go off at this point I will end up doing a destructive | behavior that was difficult to stop, I would spend | six hours trying to get into my shower and probably | spend the rest of my life in this condo without ever | leaving.  Fuck that(excuse my dirty mouth) I will | stick to my meds until *I* know it’s time to | try to fly alone.  That may not be ever so I am | willing to deal with THAT later.  I have been | through too much in the physical sense too and | with that came issues of dying and other life | threatening scenes, if ativan and remeron keep | me from living and not dwelling on dying  then | so be it.  And yes, laughter is the very best medicine | and VERY addicting…  :o) | | — | TC3 Cheryl:

No squid? LOL  I hate it myself… I choose to take the benzo’s because they are giving me a vacation from the terror inside and giving my pdoc time to address the causative issues.

Exactly!  I am not seeing anyone right now…but I think the whole being sick thing and my daughter being sick thing was my triggers for this problem…. Don’t worry about the dirty mouth, I am sure your teeth are clean, and sometimes, that’s the only way to get the point across.

I brush frequently and floss like a maniac.  Happy Harry Drug stores(in Del) have this floss that lasts for like twenty years and the box is the SAME size as the normal stuff…and I floss constantly~ My mom is always saying, "you are such a nice funny girl, do you have to say fuck all of the time?" I can’t help it.  It’s like saying "the" or "of"  you know? Damn. Hell. Shit. Poop. Kaka. Dirt. Mud. Manure. Peepee. Air Pollution. Rat shit, damnit, crap.

Reminds me of a George Carlin cheer we use to say in nursing school, Rat shit bat shit dirty old twat(I wince here) 69 assholes tied in a knot hurray lizard shit FUCK~ All of the above are only apart of how I feel about this disorder and the pain it has caused millions.

Ugh, I hate this more than I hated dialysis, believe me. Rock on girl!

Like a rolling stone, You too ~~~~ Keep the fun on ASAP, it keeps our sanity.  Love Cheryl – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – David

Response:

Chocolate is addicting…… )) Love Cathy — P.H.O.B.I.A. People Helping Others Become Independent Again Off-line Self Help Support Group, NJ http://community.nj.com/cc/phobia Anxiety Treatment Options http://www.members.tripod.com/~PhobiaGroup/index.html – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – sorry to make light, just trying to make you all laugh a bit. We are all so differently made, unique in many ways, isn’t that the fun part of the human race?  Again, many different kinds of people with varied pasts and experiences.. .many differently types of treatments, therapies, and meds.  Hmmm. . . . — David (swirling_eddies)

Response:

I just went to the store for milk and got two big ones…(Snickers that is! )  Love Cheryl — TC3

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – | Dear Eddie, oops, David…you said "get on chocolate."  Is that some | sort of new med?  How long does it take to work and are there any side- | effects?  What is the starting dose and will I become addicted to it? | Inquiring minds want to know. | | Love, | Rita | | Dear Silver, I mean Rita: The great thing about chocolate is that you never are addicted in any way, although it might affect your shape and form depending on what dosage you take. The other great thing about chocolate is that there are so many varieties and combinations, just about everyone can be satisfied.  Furthermore, all medical evidence from years of study of chocolate lovers tell us that it not only increases the amount of endorphins in our body, but is an aphrodisiac as well. Finally, chocolate has no side effects, no nausea (unless you eat too much), no dizziness (unless taken with wine after great sex), no disorientation (unless you are trying to unwrap a Hershey’s Kiss on the highway), does not cause sleeplessness (unless you take with a Coke while watching a horror movie and you realize you just ate the whole one pound bag of kisses in fear), and is generally prescribed by doctors, chiropractors, religious leaders, philosophers, educators, and everyone else, with the exception of dentists, of whom we all hate and fear anyway because they usually know NOTHING of panic disorder to begin with thereby nullifying their inclusion into our group of those who see the vital and necessary place the chocolate plays in our lives. Ahhhh, Toblerone. . .Snickers. . .Kisses. . . .Crunch. . .Chocolate Sheet Cake. . . Chocolate Meringue Pie. . .Chocolate Covered Cherries. . . Cherry Covered Chocolate. .  Cereal. . . Chocolate Cover Xanax. . . The lust, I mean list goes on and on. David ps:  the only drawback. . .weight and see

Response:

OH Rita, one big fat Snickers oughta do it!! Cheryl  xo — TC3

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dear Eddie, oops, David…you said "get on chocolate."  Is that some sort of new med?  How long does it take to work and are there any side- effects?  What is the starting dose and will I become addicted to it? Inquiring minds want to know. Love, Rita sorry to make light, just trying to make you all laugh a bit. We are all so differently made, unique in many ways, isn’t that the fun part of the human race?  Again, many different kinds of people with varied pasts and experiences.. .many differently types of treatments, therapies, and meds.  Hmmm. . . . — David (swirling_eddies) Before you buy.

Response:

Seeing him in person was quite a treat…I never laughed so hard. — TC3 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I love George Carlin.  He is the Gary Larson of comics. David

Response:

{{{{{Dot}}}}}} Could you imagine ingesting squid when the PA hit? GAG. Thank you Dot, coming from you makes this special.  And you know what, all of you could do what I did, it took a lot of praying, yakking away on here and of course, bugging Margrove to death.  :o) Love Cheryl — TC3

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If squid with Grey Poupon(sp) on rice cakes cured this misery, I would eat it three times a day. IF Snickers was a cure…oh my…I won’t even go there!  I think we are all unique, some can do this without meds, some of us can’t, I can’t. If I go off at this point I will end up doing a destructive behavior that was difficult to stop, I would spend six hours trying to get into my shower and probably spend the rest of my life in this condo without ever leaving.  Fuck that(excuse my dirty mouth) I will stick to my meds until *I* know it’s time to try to fly alone.  That may not be ever so I am willing to deal with THAT later.  I have been through too much in the physical sense too and with that came issues of dying and other life threatening scenes, if ativan and remeron keep me from living and not dwelling on dying  then so be it.  And yes, laughter is the very best medicine and VERY addicting…  :o) — TC3 sorry to make light, just trying to make you all laugh a bit. We are all so differently made, unique in many ways, isn’t that the fun part of the human race?  Again, many different kinds of people with varied pasts and experiences.. .many differently types of treatments, therapies, and meds.  Hmmm. . . . — David (swirling_eddies) Very well spoken, Cheryl.  Dealing with your physical problems in addition to PD would be more than I could take, I’m afraid.  We are so lucky to live at a time when there are good meds (and good transplants)! I don’t know about the squid though… Love, Dot Before you buy.

Response:

It started when they put a big fat tube in my abdominal cavityfor peritoneal dialysis…then when things got bad(I got very very ill) they put a nice catheter in my upper chest and told me not to get that wet(infection) so taking a shower was not an option…For some reason, don’t ask my why,I became so germophobic with all of these tubes hanging out of me and recent surgery on my left arm(to make an access for hemodialysis) just rendered me simple.  I made my step dad take out the shower doors and then we put up a curtain and I would hand shower with the thing open freezing my ass off but that is how I did it.  It took me HOURS to get into the shower, I had to pop pain pills after awhile to escape the fear and quirks I was developing.  I finally would have such a "icky" phobia I could barely touch Christa, Ted, any human or any surface..I would just have others help out while I sat and rocked in my chair.  It was a hell I will never go back to I don’t care what I have to take or do.  Finally I made myself just get in there and that took a long time to conquer, the removal of all tubes was of course, another breakthrough.  While I was doing this I was digging at my head, tearing my head up just to feel something.  I had so many sores on my head I had to let my hair grow long as I couldn’t even brush it.  Only Margrove and a couple of others knows this.  He helped me get over through it and it’s nice to have my hair short and my head free of pain.  It hurt me so much I would get migraines  I would wake up with blood everywhere…my poor husband was just at a loss.  So when some idiot tells me I should kick the benzo or SSRI thing I just want to take him back to the time I sat in a chair every day for a fucking year with bloody nails, dirty body and depression that was leading to suicide and make him or her sit with me. I wish more than anything I could have done it myself or without meds, but I couldn’t.  But yes, you are not alone with the shower thing… I am so happy to be as far as I am. I am thankful to God that I can run my hands through my hair and not feel potholes of blood. I am not sure why I am telling all of you this, I guess I am ready to have some of you know you are not alone in this misery, it may manifest itself in different ways but we are all in a place that isn’t funny…my rants or laughter at most craziness in my life is just a way for me to cope with all the crap that has happened. — TC3

~~snipped~~ I would spend six hours trying to get into my shower and probably spend the rest of my life in this condo without ever leaving. Ahhhh, so I am NOT strange to hate the shower now!!  I feel much better knowing it isn’t just me! R Til Later…. ~~R "What makes us discontented with our condition is the absurdly exaggerated

idea we have of the happiness of others"   -Proverbs

Response:

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL….this is too good not to print up.  You are so special and I love your sense of humor.  This is definitely going in my Favorites File. Love, Rita

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – | Dear Eddie, oops, David…you said "get on chocolate."  Is that some | sort of new med?  How long does it take to work and are there any side- | effects?  What is the starting dose and will I become addicted to it? | Inquiring minds want to know. | | Love, | Rita | | Dear Silver, I mean Rita: The great thing about chocolate is that you never are addicted in any way, although it might affect your shape and form depending on what dosage you take. The other great thing about chocolate is that there are so many varieties and combinations, just about everyone can be satisfied.  Furthermore, all medical evidence from years of study of chocolate lovers tell us that it not only increases the amount of endorphins in our body, but is an aphrodisiac as well. Finally, chocolate has no side effects, no nausea (unless you eat too much), no dizziness (unless taken with wine after great sex), no

disorientation (unless – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – you are trying to unwrap a Hershey’s Kiss on the highway), does not cause sleeplessness (unless you take with a Coke while watching a horror movie and you realize you just ate the whole one pound bag of kisses in fear), and is generally prescribed by doctors, chiropractors, religious leaders, philosophers, educators, and everyone else, with the exception of dentists, of whom we all hate and fear anyway because they usually know NOTHING of panic disorder to begin with thereby nullifying their inclusion into our group of those who see the vital and necessary place the chocolate plays in our lives. Ahhhh, Toblerone. . .Snickers. . .Kisses. . . .Crunch. . .Chocolate Sheet Cake. . . Chocolate Meringue Pie. . .Chocolate Covered Cherries. . . Cherry Covered Chocolate. .  Cereal. . . Chocolate Cover Xanax. . . The lust, I mean list goes on and on. David ps:  the only drawback. . .weight and see

Before you buy.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – | Dear Eddie, oops, David…you said "get on chocolate."  Is that some | sort of new med?  How long does it take to work and are there any side- | effects?  What is the starting dose and will I become addicted to it? | Inquiring minds want to know. | | Love, | Rita | | Dear Silver, I mean Rita: The great thing about chocolate is that you never are addicted in any way,

OH YEA!!!!  LOL Di

Response:

| Dear Eddie, oops, David…you said "get on chocolate."  Is that some | sort of new med?  How long does it take to work and are there any side- | effects?  What is the starting dose and will I become addicted to it? | Inquiring minds want to know. | | Love, | Rita | | Dear Silver, I mean Rita: The great thing about chocolate is that you never are addicted in any way, although it might affect your shape and form depending on what dosage you take. The other great thing about chocolate is that there are so many varieties and combinations, just about everyone can be satisfied.  Furthermore, all medical evidence from years of study of chocolate lovers tell us that it not only increases the amount of endorphins in our body, but is an aphrodisiac as well. Finally, chocolate has no side effects, no nausea (unless you eat too much), no dizziness (unless taken with wine after great sex), no disorientation (unless you are trying to unwrap a Hershey’s Kiss on the highway), does not cause sleeplessness (unless you take with a Coke while watching a horror movie and you realize you just ate the whole one pound bag of kisses in fear), and is generally prescribed by doctors, chiropractors, religious leaders, philosophers, educators, and everyone else, with the exception of dentists, of whom we all hate and fear anyway because they usually know NOTHING of panic disorder to begin with thereby nullifying their inclusion into our group of those who see the vital and necessary place the chocolate plays in our lives. Ahhhh, Toblerone. . .Snickers. . .Kisses. . . .Crunch. . .Chocolate Sheet Cake. . . Chocolate Meringue Pie. . .Chocolate Covered Cherries. . . Cherry Covered Chocolate. .  Cereal. . . Chocolate Cover Xanax. . . The lust, I mean list goes on and on. David ps:  the only drawback. . .weight and see

Response:

~~snipped~~ I would spend six hours trying to get into my shower and probably spend the rest of my life in this condo without ever leaving.  

Ahhhh, so I am NOT strange to hate the shower now!!  I feel much better knowing it isn’t just me! R Til Later…. ~~R "What makes us discontented with our condition is the absurdly exaggerated idea we have of the happiness of others"   -Proverbs

Response:

I love George Carlin.  He is the Gary Larson of comics. David

Response:

sorry to make light, just trying to make you all laugh a bit. We are all so differently made, unique in many ways, isn’t that the fun part of the human race?  Again, many different kinds of people with varied pasts and experiences.. .many differently types of treatments, therapies, and meds.  Hmmm. . . . — David (swirling_eddies)

Yea, what a bunch!!!  Just kidding.  This is a great bunch we have here. Hugs, Di

Response:

Dear Eddie, oops, David…you said "get on chocolate."  Is that some sort of new med?  How long does it take to work and are there any side- effects?  What is the starting dose and will I become addicted to it? Inquiring minds want to know. Love, Rita sorry to make light, just trying to make you all laugh a bit. We are all so differently made, unique in many ways, isn’t that the fun part of the human race?  Again, many different kinds of people with varied pasts and experiences.. .many differently types of treatments, therapies, and meds.  Hmmm. . . . — David (swirling_eddies)

Before you buy.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If squid with Grey Poupon(sp) on rice cakes cured this misery, I would eat it three times a day. IF Snickers was a cure…oh my…I won’t even go there!  I think we are all unique, some can do this without meds, some of us can’t, I can’t. If I go off at this point I will end up doing a destructive behavior that was difficult to stop, I would spend six hours trying to get into my shower and probably spend the rest of my life in this condo without ever leaving.  Fuck that(excuse my dirty mouth) I will stick to my meds until *I* know it’s time to try to fly alone.  That may not be ever so I am willing to deal with THAT later.  I have been through too much in the physical sense too and with that came issues of dying and other life threatening scenes, if ativan and remeron keep me from living and not dwelling on dying  then so be it.  And yes, laughter is the very best medicine and VERY addicting…  :o) — TC3 sorry to make light, just trying to make you all laugh a bit. We are all so differently made, unique in many ways, isn’t that the fun part of the human race?  Again, many different kinds of people with varied pasts and experiences.. .many differently types of treatments, therapies, and meds.  Hmmm. . . . — David (swirling_eddies)

Very well spoken, Cheryl.  Dealing with your physical problems in addition to PD would be more than I could take, I’m afraid.  We are so lucky to live at a time when there are good meds (and good transplants)! I don’t know about the squid though… Love, Dot Before you buy.

Response:

| If squid with Grey Poupon(sp) on rice cakes cured | this misery, I would eat it three times a day. | IF Snickers was a cure…oh my…I won’t even | go there!  I think we are all unique, some can | do this without meds, some of us can’t, I can’t. | If I go off at this point I will end up doing a destructive | behavior that was difficult to stop, I would spend | six hours trying to get into my shower and probably | spend the rest of my life in this condo without ever | leaving.  Fuck that(excuse my dirty mouth) I will | stick to my meds until *I* know it’s time to | try to fly alone.  That may not be ever so I am | willing to deal with THAT later.  I have been | through too much in the physical sense too and | with that came issues of dying and other life | threatening scenes, if ativan and remeron keep | me from living and not dwelling on dying  then | so be it.  And yes, laughter is the very best medicine | and VERY addicting…  :o) | | — | TC3 Cheryl: I choose to take the benzo’s because they are giving me a vacation from the terror inside and giving my pdoc time to address the causative issues. Don’t worry about the dirty mouth, I am sure your teeth are clean, and sometimes, that’s the only way to get the point across. Damn. Hell. Shit. Poop. Kaka. Dirt. Mud. Manure. Peepee. Air Pollution. Rat shit, damnit, crap. All of the above are only apart of how I feel about this disorder and the pain it has caused millions. Rock on girl! David

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If squid with Grey Poupon(sp) on rice cakes cured this misery, I would eat it three times a day. IF Snickers was a cure…oh my…I won’t even go there!  I think we are all unique, some can do this without meds, some of us can’t, I can’t. If I go off at this point I will end up doing a destructive behavior that was difficult to stop, I would spend six hours trying to get into my shower and probably spend the rest of my life in this condo without ever leaving.  Fuck that(excuse my dirty mouth) I will stick to my meds until *I* know it’s time to try to fly alone.  That may not be ever so I am willing to deal with THAT later.  I have been through too much in the physical sense too and with that came issues of dying and other life threatening scenes, if ativan and remeron keep me from living and not dwelling on dying  then so be it.  And yes, laughter is the very best medicine and VERY addicting…  :o) — TC3 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – sorry to make light, just trying to make you all laugh a bit. We are all so differently made, unique in many ways, isn’t that the fun part of the human race?  Again, many different kinds of people with varied pasts and experiences.. .many differently types of treatments, therapies, and meds.  Hmmm. . . . — David (swirling_eddies)

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sorry to make light, just trying to make you all laugh a bit. We are all so differently made, unique in many ways, isn’t that the fun part of the human race?  Again, many different kinds of people with varied pasts and experiences.. .many differently types of treatments, therapies, and meds.  Hmmm. . . . — David (swirling_eddies)

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Question:

Hi gang.  My Mother-in-law called today as she read an article about Taco Neck offending those with ST in Baton Rouge, LA.  There was a local phone number & I called and found there exists a number of people with dystonia living in my area. They have a "group" but it doesn’t meet due to the fact that many members cannot get there as they are homebound.  Most of the members have ST, however, which differs from me as I am generalized.  I did find out that the head of the local group presented ST info to a local neurologist and that physician made a point to go to Houston and learn how to give BOTOX injections.  He has saved several people the long drive and it sounds as if he has done a lot of good.  I had heard of this physician when people thought I had MS and almost contacted him to see if he would like to take a shot at helping my dystonia, but I was afraid he’d look at my records and think I was crazy again…he is in the same clinic with one of the neuros who sent me home with a bag of depression meds; later he said I had a benign essential tremor with "some rigidity". Not!!!   After talking with the head of the group, I learned that none of them accessed info on the computer and he was surprised at how many of us correspond with one another with such frequency.  He asked the cutest question, "Well, tell me, have you been able to find very many people with dystonia by looking in your computer?" He was blown away by my answer!!! Now he wants to try to "rejuvenate" the group  and try to meet again to set up a way to meet regularly.  He wants me to tell them about our newsgroup and all the friends we’ve all made, how we keep each other from feeling misunderstood, alone.  It was a good time to talk to him because I feel like I’ve been losing the battle against dystonia lately…I’m sure it’s temporary as I’ve never been hit this hard for long since I got on the meds.  He said there’s no one in the group who has it all over them this way, but he said that regardless of what happens, I’m going to win anyway, he said he heard it in my voice. (What if I lose my voice!<g) I’m scared to death, but I’m thinking about making an appointment with that physician.  He’s even on my PPO so it will only be $10.  I haven’t seen a doctor since last September and I was there to get a letter that said I was doing great so our group insurance could be moved to a less expensive carrier.  I will be hurt if I subject myself to this man and he comes up with some oddball stress and anxiety diagnosis.  Then he’d probably send that to my primary care physician and mess up the only reasonable avenue I have for help here.  Okay, I’m out of the closet now…the Slipper is scared of being called a nut (well at least by doctors). —Gene, don’t you dare jump on that statement!!!<g The other good news is that our nine-parish newspaper printed the short article about Taco Neck and ST and the phone number.  Perhaps it will get the attention of someone like me. Okay, so that’s that.  I’m no longer an alien life form here in this town. (—I’m warning you Gene..don’t say it!!!<g) Love yaw, Slipper

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi gang.  My Mother-in-law called today as she read an article about Taco Neck offending those with ST in Baton Rouge, LA.  There was a local phone number & I called and found there exists a number of people with dystonia living in my area. They have a "group" but it doesn’t meet due to the fact that many members cannot get there as they are homebound.  Most of the members have ST, however, which differs from me as I am generalized.  I did find out that the head of the local group presented ST info to a local neurologist and that physician made a point to go to Houston and learn how to give BOTOX injections.  He has saved several people the long drive and it sounds as if he has done a lot of good.  I had heard of this physician when people thought I had MS and almost contacted him to see if he would like to take a shot at helping my dystonia, but I was afraid he’d look at my records and think I was crazy again…he is in the same clinic with one of the neuros who sent me home with a bag of depression meds; later he said I had a benign essential tremor with "some rigidity". Not!!!   After talking with the head of the group, I learned that none of them accessed info on the computer and he was surprised at how many of us correspond with one another with such frequency.  He asked the cutest question, "Well, tell me, have you been able to find very many people with dystonia by looking in your computer?" He was blown away by my answer!!! Now he wants to try to "rejuvenate" the group  and try to meet again to set up a way to meet regularly.  He wants me to tell them about our newsgroup and all the friends we’ve all made, how we keep each other from feeling misunderstood, alone.  It was a good time to talk to him because I feel like I’ve been losing the battle against dystonia lately…I’m sure it’s temporary as I’ve never been hit this hard for long since I got on the meds.  He said there’s no one in the group who has it all over them this way, but he said that regardless of what happens, I’m going to win anyway, he said he heard it in my voice. (What if I lose my voice!<g) I’m scared to death, but I’m thinking about making an appointment with that physician.  He’s even on my PPO so it will only be $10.  I haven’t seen a doctor since last September and I was there to get a letter that said I was doing great so our group insurance could be moved to a less expensive carrier.  I will be hurt if I subject myself to this man and he comes up with some oddball stress and anxiety diagnosis.  Then he’d probably send that to my primary care physician and mess up the only reasonable avenue I have for help here.  Okay, I’m out of the closet now…the Slipper is scared of being called a nut (well at least by doctors). —Gene, don’t you dare jump on that statement!!!<g The other good news is that our nine-parish newspaper printed the short article about Taco Neck and ST and the phone number.  Perhaps it will get the attention of someone like me. Okay, so that’s that.  I’m no longer an alien life form here in this town. (—I’m warning you Gene..don’t say it!!!<g) Love yaw, Slipper

Slipper: Sorry to hear you’re on a downer — these slides are tough. In my case it has been deemed too risky for me to see a neurologist as my case got botched so much it became almost political with a large "P". Anyway, it has not escaped my attention what happened after I simply wandered by and posted that "Library Neck" story. Well, well, seems you, Gene and Catherine just jumped on my innocent question about the source of Gene’s humour — er, I mean printed jokes <<g. Boy did you three run with that one! Proving to us all that the three of you are sorta, kinda, somewhat, grudgingly, in an offhanded way, indirectly, less than obviously pals . SO glad <<g I could help!!! Gotta watch those innocent questions of mine! Hi to all John

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writes: ..just send flowers to Gaby, you will know what happened…..<<g Send flowers to Gaby anyway!!! <g Gene, Gene listen, listen to me…behave.

You know I always behave, don’t ya?   <g <<<<<<<<<<<<<<G -Slip

OK! OK!  Slipper you win, you win….<g It is true, Slipper and I are good friends and we don’t fight off line.   It’s a nice sunny day out and it reminds me to wish everyone (including a special someone:-) a great summer.  I am taking a break but will be checking my e-mail sporadically  and responding to anyone who writes. Gene

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. Boy did you three run with that one! Proving to us all that the three of you are sorta, kinda, somewhat, grudgingly, in an offhanded way, indirectly, less than obviously pals .

Actually John, and don’t repeat this, we fight all the time off line. You haven’t seen my eyes….and  bruises here and there, I am a mess….  Now Slipper has instructed the whole gang to.."go get him." Yikes!!!!!!  If you stop hearing from me….just send flowers to Gaby, you will know what happened…..<<g

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writes: ..just send flowers to Gaby, you will know what happened…..<<g

Send flowers to Gaby anyway!!! <g Gene, Gene listen, listen to me…behave. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<G -Slip

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