Question:
Anyone know of a home supplier of Flovent and Serevent that bills through MEDICARE. Thank you!
Prescription Medication Knowledge Base » Of Flovent And » Flovent, Serevent??
Anyone know of a home supplier of Flovent and Serevent that bills through MEDICARE. Thank you!
Prescription Medication Knowledge Base » Of Flovent And » is this a yeast infection?
i wake up every morning and my whole mouth is covered with a sticky grayish-white stuff, i dont have it when i go to bed at night but its there when i wake up in the morning. it covers the inside of my cheeks, my tongue and now my tonsils. also i woke up this week with a horrendous sore thoat (tonsil) and was wondering if yeast can cause this. also my tongue whole mouth is pretty sore all the time. i’m on proventil, serevent, flovent and singulair. how do you know if its yeast? and any good links out there with pictures? thanks for any advice, will
It sure sounds like yeast infection [candida]. You will need a prescription antifungal like Nystatin. Here are pictures: http://www.gastrolab.net/pa-047.htm Candia Oesophagitis due to Treatment with Inhalated Steroids Candidiasis (Cutaneous) To minimize future occurances, be sure to use an AeroChamber spacer with your Flovent MDI; rinse and gargle after inhaling and drink a glass of water to wash residue down. Ellis
Since you’re on inhaled steroids and have these symptoms, it’s a pretty good bet that you have thrush. This is a fungal infection that can be fought with Nystatin mouthwash. But why guess? It’s worth a visit to your doctor. Good luck. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i wake up every morning and my whole mouth is covered with a sticky grayish-white stuff, i dont have it when i go to bed at night but its there when i wake up in the morning. it covers the inside of my cheeks, my tongue and now my tonsils. also i woke up this week with a horrendous sore thoat (tonsil) and was wondering if yeast can cause this. also my tongue whole mouth is pretty sore all the time. i’m on proventil, serevent, flovent and singulair. how do you know if its yeast? and any good links out there with pictures? thanks for any advice, will
i wake up every morning and my whole mouth is covered with a sticky grayish-white stuff, i dont have it when i go to bed at night but its there when i wake up in the morning. it covers the inside of my cheeks, my tongue and now my tonsils. also i woke up this week with a horrendous sore thoat (tonsil) and was wondering if yeast can cause this. also my tongue whole mouth is pretty sore all the time. i’m on proventil, serevent, flovent and singulair. how do you know if its yeast? and any good links out there with pictures? thanks for any advice, will
Sounds like it to me… It is very painful I hear… I’ve seen it only on my son so I couldn’t attest to that. I would check it out with your doctor…there are some very good medications to get rid of it… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i wake up every morning and my whole mouth is covered with a sticky grayish-white stuff, i dont have it when i go to bed at night but its there when i wake up in the morning. it covers the inside of my cheeks, my tongue and now my tonsils. also i woke up this week with a horrendous sore thoat (tonsil) and was wondering if yeast can cause this. also my tongue whole mouth is pretty sore all the time. i’m on proventil, serevent, flovent and singulair. how do you know if its yeast? and any good links out there with pictures? thanks for any advice, will
Prescription Medication Knowledge Base » Zoloft Withdrawal » Panic
Hello, I am new to this group and hope to find some support for my panic attacks. I used zoloft for 10 years to control panic, and have been off it for 1 year. (I tapered off very slowly over the course of a year.) Now panic attacks are returning in full force. I am trying to control them with gaba, but not having much success. Does anyone have any thoughts or information on wjether the brain can recover after 10 years of anti-depressant use? Or suggestions for alternative approaches. I am desperate because my anxiety is leading to diahrea, lack of sleep, loss of weight. Thanks for any help.
Gaba doesn’t pass the blood-brain barrier and anyway it’s not a *lack of Gaba* that’s causing PD. I would suggest trying a benzodiazepine like Xanax, Ativan, Klonopin, Valium which, unlike the antidepressants, *do* work on the Gaba system. Benzos will cause *dependence* (as do many ADs and a myriad of other meds) for which reason some doctors won’t prescribe them, confusing dependence and addiction. Benzos are first choice meds for panic and dependence means you shouldn’t stop taking them suddenly but by way of a slow taper. Philip — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
:I am new to this group and hope to find some support for my panic attacks. :I used zoloft for 10 years to control panic, and have been off it for 1 year. 
I tapered off very slowly over the course of a year.) Now panic attacks are :returning in full force. I am trying to control them with gaba, but not having :much success. Welcome to ASAPM! Sorry you are having a setback. That`s par for the course when it comes to living with an anxiety disorder GABA hasn`t been proven having any luck with it. 
oes anyone have any thoughts or information on wjether the brain can :recover after 10 years of anti-depressant use? Or suggestions for alternative :approaches. I am desperate because my anxiety is leading to diahrea, lack 
f sleep, loss of weight. Thanks for any help. When you ask about the brain recovering from 10 year antidepressant use, do you think your brain was hurt by using zoloft for 10 years? Let me assure you that what you are experiencing is quite normal for people with anxiety disorders, meds or not. Setbacks after the cessation of medication is unfortunately…. too common. I urge you to seek professional help as soon as possible. If you are very adverse to taking another antidepressant, than ask your doctor about benzodiazepines. If you are against meds period, then look into cognitive behavioral therapy. It is the most effective therapy for anxiety disorders. Here are two informative links on CBT: http://panicdisorder.about.com/cs/therapycbt/ http://www.cognitivetherapy.com/ Here`s a link to a great website on anxiety disorders, there is a wealth of information at this site. http://panicdisorder.about.com/index.htm?once=true&COB=home&PID=2791 Take care 
Jackie ~*~My grandfather always said that living is like licking honey off a thorn~*~ — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
nothing perfect in life, the zoloft was effective enough to eliminate your anxiety and you (might) never had to learn how to deal with your disorder, so if for some reason you have to quite taking it your anxiety disorder can come back if you are genetically prone to a anxiety disorder you have to work a lot harder than normal people to help deal with anxiety and this would be to learn many different coping techniques along with medication as needed and there very well could be a time in your life where medication is the only effective answer and possibly a time when you might be able to work to diminish many of the symptoms without med Jim Hello, I am new to this group and hope to find some support for my panic attacks. I used zoloft for 10 years to control panic, and have been off it for 1 year. (I tapered off very slowly over the course of a year.) Now panic attacks are returning in full force. I am trying to control them with gaba, but not having much success. Does anyone have any thoughts or information on wjether the brain can recover after 10 years of anti-depressant use? Or suggestions for alternative approaches. I am desperate because my anxiety is leading to diahrea, lack of sleep, loss of weight. Thanks for any help.
Hello, I am new to this group and hope to find some support for my panic attacks. I used zoloft for 10 years to control panic, and have been off it for 1 year. (I tapered off very slowly over the course of a year.) Now panic attacks are returning in full force. I am trying to control them with gaba, but not having much success. Does anyone have any thoughts or information on wjether the brain can recover after 10 years of anti-depressant use? Or suggestions for alternative approaches. I am desperate because my anxiety is leading to diahrea, lack of sleep, loss of weight. Thanks for any help.
First of al : Welcome to this group it can be a great help I can see your problem,but (this maybe doesn’t is the info you are looking for) I think the problem isn’t the intake of zoloft for 10 years. When I read your symptoms I can only assume your PAD isn’t under control without medication. I don’t think your brain needs to recover from Zoloft. Jackie gave you some excellent links. Unfortenatly PAD isn’t a disorder that disappears. With very few people it is a temporary thing. Of course you are free to live without medication but then ,like Elliot said, there is a great need for therapy (CBT) so you can control your thinking. You can post here all you want for info and support. We all know what you are talking about ! Take care from Anna — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
Laura, I would like to know your experience on zoloft as I am considering it. I deal with a lot of anxiety and probably mini PA’s on a daily basis. I take klonopin as needed, and boy it makes me good. chaz
Hello, I am new to this group and hope to find some support for my panic attacks. I used zoloft for 10 years to control panic, and have been off it for 1 year. (I tapered off very slowly over the course of a year.) Now panic attacks are returning in full force. I am trying to control them with gaba, but not having much success. Does anyone have any thoughts or information on wjether the brain can recover after 10 years of anti-depressant use? Or suggestions for alternative approaches. I am desperate because my anxiety is leading to diahrea, lack of sleep, loss of weight. Thanks for any help. — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
Does anyone have any thoughts or information on wjether the brain can recover after 10 years of anti-depressant use? Or suggestions for alternative approaches. I am desperate because my anxiety is leading to diahrea, lack of sleep, loss of weight. Thanks for any help.
I am coming off of Serzone after using it for at least 10 years. I came off the Serzone very slowly and have medical supervision on this. I have been told by my Dr. that if I was to come off the medication too quickly, I would probably trigger an episode of deep depression. My experience so far now that I am off Serzone completely for 3 days is that my tension migraines are a wee be worse but my head has lost much of its "fog." This trade-off is worth it for me but anxiety may in the end cause me to have to go back on meds. Good luck Ron — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
Long term use of the SSRIs presents a lot of problems. It doesn’t usually work forever and at a certain point they need to be stopped. As an episodic problem panic disorder probably is going to do best with an episodic treatment. Withdrawal after long term use can be much more severe than you describe, and people need to be aware that withdrawal induced suicidal ideation is a problem — as is the induction of new symptoms of anxiety and panic that were not present previously. Zaps are often confused with panic attacks. So is withdrawal related visual lag/vertigo and withdrawal related nausea. All that aside, what can one do? It seems that when a person stops a SSRI, they are relatively serotonin depleted. My strategy to boos serotonin on the supply side is to prescribe l-tryptophan at a dose of 1000 mg twice daily — to be taken on an empty stomach with a bit of sugar only (juice, soda crackers, etc.) Tryptophan is converted to serotonin in the brain. I avoid 5-HTP because it is converted into serotonin to a large extent outside of the brain and this can potentially cause the same sort of cardiac problems that phen-fen caused. Taking the tryptophan with SAM-e 200 to 400 mg can boost serotonin synthesis even further. If you have a prior history of manic episodes, avoid the SAM-e. Some of my patients have found significant relief from SSRI/Zoloft withdrawal using this strategy. Stuart Shipko, M.D. Panic Disorders Institute http://www.algy.com/pdi — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
Hello, I am new to this group and hope to find some support for my panic attacks. I used zoloft for 10 years to control panic, and have been off it for 1 year. (I tapered off very slowly over the course of a year.) Now panic attacks are returning in full force. I am trying to control them with gaba, but not having much success. Does anyone have any thoughts or information on wjether the brain can recover after 10 years of anti-depressant use? Or suggestions for alternative approaches. I am desperate because my anxiety is leading to diahrea, lack of sleep, loss of weight. Thanks for any help. Hi Laura, It sounds like the Zoloft was controlling your anxiety disorder, and after you stopped it, the panic attacks returned. I’d restart the Zoloft. I’ve been on Zoloft for over 10 years, primarily for recurrant depression. In the past when I have discontinued the Zoloft, my depression returns. Chip — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
Welcome to the group Laura. Maybe you should talk to your doctor about going back on Zoloft or another med. So sorry about the way this disorder is affecting you. :-( I’m weaning onto Celexa, but it’s only been 2 weeks so I’m not much help there. I think you’ll find lots of supportive people here. Please take care. Hugs, Di Hello, I am new to this group and hope to find some support for my panic attacks. I used zoloft for 10 years to control panic, and have been off it for 1 year. (I tapered off very slowly over the course of a year.) Now panic attacks are returning in full force. I am trying to control them with gaba, but not having much success. Does anyone have any thoughts or information on wjether the brain can recover after 10 years of anti-depressant use? Or suggestions for alternative approaches. I am desperate because my anxiety is leading to diahrea, lack of sleep, loss of weight. Thanks for any help.
Welcome, Laura!! I’m sorry you are experiencing this again. There is no reason you can’t resume your Zoloft if it helped you before, and you need it. I don’t think you are ‘recovering’ from 10 years of anti-depressant use…I think you are just plain suffering from an anxiety disorder. It’s really OK to take meds if you need them, Laura. A diabetic needs insulin…someone with anxiety or depression also needs meds. It’s the same thing. If I were you, I would contact the doctor and start something again. This can cause you other health problems if gone untreated. Healing hugs, Gigglz Hello, I am new to this group and hope to find some support for my panic attacks. I used zoloft for 10 years to control panic, and have been off it for 1 year. (I tapered off very slowly over the course of a year.) Now panic attacks are returning in full force. I am trying to control them with gaba, but not having much success. Does anyone have any thoughts or information on wjether the brain can recover after 10 years of anti-depressant use? Or suggestions for alternative approaches. I am desperate because my anxiety is leading to diahrea, lack of sleep, loss of weight. Thanks for any help.
Hello, I am new to this group and hope to find some support for my panic attacks. I used zoloft for 10 years to control panic, and have been off it for 1 year. (I tapered off very slowly over the course of a year.) Now panic attacks are returning in full force. I am trying to control them with gaba, but not having much success. Does anyone have any thoughts or information on wjether the brain can recover after 10 years of anti-depressant use? Or suggestions for alternative approaches. I am desperate because my anxiety is leading to diahrea, lack of sleep, loss of weight. Thanks for any help.
Hello, Laura, and welcome. I used zoloft for 10 years to control panic, and have been off = it for 1 year. … Now panic attacks are returning in full force.
It may be that you could discuss going back on the Zoloft, with your doctor or psychiatrist. If it helped you then, it will probably help you now. I am desperate because my anxiety is leading to = diahrea, lack of sleep, loss of weight.
I’m so sorry to hear this! Laura, there is really no need to suffer when a medication exists that can help you. Please talk to your doctor about resuming the Zoloft! xxoo Anne — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm
Hi, Laura, Welcome to ASAPM!!! Why make yourself suffer when going back on Zoloft could reduce or eliminate the anxiety and its symptoms. smiles, Elise Hello, I am new to this group and hope to find some support for my panic attacks. I used zoloft for 10 years to control panic, and have been off it for 1 year. (I tapered off very slowly over the course of a year.) Now panic attacks are returning in full force. I am trying to control them with gaba, but not having much success. Does anyone have any thoughts or information on wjether the brain can recover after 10 years of anti-depressant use? Or suggestions for alternative approaches. I am desperate because my anxiety is leading to diahrea, lack of sleep, loss of weight. Thanks for any help.
Prescription Medication Knowledge Base » Venlafaxine Effexor » Why don't these meds work during PMS?
I can hardly keep my thoughts together today…..I’m not going in to work again today. ….and, when I called in, she tried to make me feel guilty. It’s almost like my hormones override these medications. I become overly sensitive, irritable, paranoid, fearful, anxious, restless…..just to name a few symptoms. I know that stupid depo shot is still in my system. I can feel it. I don’t have anything to grip on to, and this is a horrible feeling. Maybe that’s why that show Greed kept my heart pounding last night. I know this will go away in a few days, but what do I do in the meantime? I haven’t done a "pity party" post for awhile, so I guess it was overdue. My doc is out of town AGAIN for the weekend….. I feel like Sharyn today…..I just want to cry. ( Maria
Thanks Chip, I really like these articles…. For anyone interested, or that has PMS problems… I took the other half of my celexa pill the other day, (because of feeling horrible, and PMS) and noticed quite immediate effects….as I was laying down for a nap, I realized she had given me 40 mg. tabs, which I break in half so they last me 2 months, or so that I can increase to 40 if I want to. So, it turns out I’ve been taking double my usual dosage these past couple days. (It never occurred to me, because I always broke my paxil in half). Well, the funny part is when I did this once before, not during PMS…..I was so tired, I could barely walk. This time, I feel great…..no PMS symptoms!! Today I feel very calm….and, even spent the day at the mall with some friends, (which usually makes me cranky being around crowds for long periods of time). I wasn’t a bit irritated…and, before the extra celexa I was a wreck. Now, I’m curious to see the effect it will have on me after my period….if it will be too high of a dose. I really like this 40 mg. right now. Just an interesting self observation of my situation…. Bye, Maria
: : Valerie Davis Raskin, MD, wrote a very good book titled, : "When Words Are Not Enough; The Women’s Prescription for : Depression and Anxiety." The book is not too expensive : and written for the general public, so you may want to : buy a copy via Amazon or some other book shop. It covers : a lot of issues that are important to women who suffer : from anxiety and depression. : : Thankyou for that information Arthur. I remember it being one of the trivia : questions, but I didn’t know what it was about. : Maria I had originally bought the book for my mother. However, she didn’t read it at first (being very psychoanalysis oriented) so I borrowed it for a while. The book is very practical; with chapters on sex, pregnancy, menstral cycles, etc. It addresses medication questions that I often see posted here in ASAP and has some nice tables on medications. I’m tempted to buy a copy for my own little anxiety-panic library. Which reminds me, mom still has my copy of Sheehan. I ought to start distributing library cards (grin). Best Wishes, Arthur
Biological Therapies in Psychiatry Alan J. Gelenberg, M.D. Treating PMS While most women experience some physical and emotional changes premenstrually, a minority are clinically impaired by the premenstrual syndrome (PMS). For ages, unproven and largely ineffectual remedies were promulgated. In recent years, however, greater methodologic rigor has enhanced clinical research on this condition. Better still, the advent of the serotonin-selective reuptake inhibitor (SSRI) antidepressants has shown that medication can alleviate PMS symptoms and reverse dysfunction. Several recent reviews present evidence and knowledgeable opinions on treating PMS. Dr Walter Brown notes that SSRIs have a much more rapid onset of action when used to treat PMS than when the same drugs are used to treat depression. (1) PMS symptoms improve almost immediately, while depressive symptoms typically take several weeks to lift. This author also observes that while serotonergic, noradrenergic, and other agents appear equal in efficacy when treating depression, only highly serotonergic antidepressants are effective for PMS. Further evidence for the role of serotonin in PMS is that tryptophan, the essential amino acid that serves as a dietary precursor for serotonin, and fenfluramine (Pondimin and Redux), which stimulates serotonin neurotransmission, also appear effective against PMS. Moreover, women with PMS show abnormalities in blood serotonin. What about other antidepressants? Yonkers and Brown write about an ongoing, multicenter trial of venlafaxine (Effexor) for premenstrual dysphoric disorder (PMDD). (2) Venlafaxine can be started at 25 mg bid to manage side effects and then increased by 25 to 37.5 mg/day each cycle until remission is achieved. Investigators hope venlafaxine’s rapid onset of action will be beneficial in this type of intermittent disorder. An open trial suggested that nefazodone (Serzone) may be effective against PMDD or premenstrual exacerbation (PME) of a preexisting mood disorder when administered in daily doses of 200 to 500 mg throughout the menstrual cycle. Anxiolytic agents too might have a role to play. Limited data suggest possible efficacy for buspirone (Buspar). Yonkers and Brown also use alprazolam (Xanax) for women with mild PMS symptoms of limited duration. They recommend a starting dose of 0.25 mg bid or tid, increased as needed. In many studies of drugs to treat PMS, agents are administered daily throughout the month. But some women appear to benefit from taking a drug only during the premenstrual week or starting with the first symptom and ending with the beginning of menses. For example, clomipramine (Anafranil) is efficacious when administered only in the luteal phase of the menstrual cycle. Although there are no systematic data on the long-term use of drugs for premenstrual disorders, Yonkers and Brown state that symptom relief appears to be maintained. What else can be done to combat PMS symptoms? Pearlstein cites recommendations to increase complex carbohydrate consumption. (3) When combined with more frequent meals, this strategy might enhance cerebral uptake of tryptophan, thereby making more serotonin available. Some women find exercise alleviates symptoms. Other nonpharmacologic strategies include cognitive behavioral therapy and relaxation training. When symptoms of PMS, PMDD, or PME rise to the level of clinical significance, serotonergic antidepressants often can bring relief, with dosage and timing individualized for each patient. Recommendations for diet, exercise, and other nonpharmacologic strategies — as alternatives or additions to drug treatment — also can be considered based on preferences and circumstances. (1) Brown WA: PMS: A quiet breakthrough. Psychiatr Ann 1996; 26: 569-570. (2) Yonkers KA, Brown WA: Pharmacologic treatments for premenstrual dysphoric disorder. Psychiatr Ann 1996; 26: 586-589. (3) Pearlstein T: Nonpharmacologic treatment of premenstrual syndrome. Psychiatr Ann 1996; 26: 590-594.
Thanks Chip, I’m actually saving this in my files. BTW, I do feel much better today, and will from now on increase my celexa dose during PMS. I’ve actually learned a lot over the last couple of days. I apologize if I snapped anyone’s head off in the meantime. Bye, Maria – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Int Clin Psychopharmacol 1999 May;14 Suppl 2:S27-33 Serotonin reuptake inhibitors for the treatment of premenstrual dysphoria. Eriksson E Department of Pharmacology, Goteborg University, Sweden. Premenstrual dysphoria (PMD) is a severe form of premenstrual syndrome, afflicting approximately 5% of all women of fertile age. The cardinal symptoms are irritability and anger. In addition, sadness, tension and carbohydrate craving are common complaints. The symptoms surface regularly between ovulation and menstruation, and disappear completely within a few days after the onset of the bleeding; in patients with remaining symptoms during the follicular phase, alternative diagnoses should be considered. In a large number of recent trials, serotonin reuptake inhibitors (clomipramine, citalopram, fluoxetine, paroxetine, sertraline) have been shown to reduce the symptoms of PMD much more effectively than placebo; in contrast, non-serotonergic antidepressants (maprotiline, bupropion) appear to be ineffective. Interestingly, the onset of action of clomipramine and selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs) is much shorter when used for PMD than when used for depression, panic disorder, or obsessive-compulsive disorder. Consequently, patients with PMD can restrict the medication to the luteal phase of the cycle. In a recent placebo-controlled trial, intermittent administration of the SSRI citalopram was shown to reduce the symptoms of PMD significantly better than placebo, but also better than continuous administration of the drug. A reasonable interpretation of the latter, unexpected finding is that continuous medication may be associated with a certain development of tolerance than can be avoided by intermittent drug administration. The observation that the symptoms of PMD may be effectively reduced by SSRIs is of considerable clinical importance since previously no effective treatment for this common condition – apart from those disrupting ovarian cyclicity – has been available. It is also of theoretical importance because it constitutes one of the first pharmacological observations supporting the concept that serotonin may dampen irritability and anger in humans. PMID: 10471170, UI: 99397771
Int Clin Psychopharmacol 1999 May;14 Suppl 2:S27-33 Serotonin reuptake inhibitors for the treatment of premenstrual dysphoria. Eriksson E Department of Pharmacology, Goteborg University, Sweden. Premenstrual dysphoria (PMD) is a severe form of premenstrual syndrome, afflicting approximately 5% of all women of fertile age. The cardinal symptoms are irritability and anger. In addition, sadness, tension and carbohydrate craving are common complaints. The symptoms surface regularly between ovulation and menstruation, and disappear completely within a few days after the onset of the bleeding; in patients with remaining symptoms during the follicular phase, alternative diagnoses should be considered. In a large number of recent trials, serotonin reuptake inhibitors (clomipramine, citalopram, fluoxetine, paroxetine, sertraline) have been shown to reduce the symptoms of PMD much more effectively than placebo; in contrast, non-serotonergic antidepressants (maprotiline, bupropion) appear to be ineffective. Interestingly, the onset of action of clomipramine and selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs) is much shorter when used for PMD than when used for depression, panic disorder, or obsessive-compulsive disorder. Consequently, patients with PMD can restrict the medication to the luteal phase of the cycle. In a recent placebo-controlled trial, intermittent administration of the SSRI citalopram was shown to reduce the symptoms of PMD significantly better than placebo, but also better than continuous administration of the drug. A reasonable interpretation of the latter, unexpected finding is that continuous medication may be associated with a certain development of tolerance than can be avoided by intermittent drug administration. The observation that the symptoms of PMD may be effectively reduced by SSRIs is of considerable clinical importance since previously no effective treatment for this common condition – apart from those disrupting ovarian cyclicity – has been available. It is also of theoretical importance because it constitutes one of the first pharmacological observations supporting the concept that serotonin may dampen irritability and anger in humans. PMID: 10471170, UI: 99397771
its been documented that ssri’s and benzo’s blood plasma levels change when women ovulate and vice versa when they don’t-since you are changing your bodies ability to ovulate the plasma levels may drop somewhat-you may want to ask your doc to augment some benzo or ad meds with your next shot-medroxyprogesterone acetate is a known sensitizer of depression-you can just try and pamper yourself until the effects slough off LM
Margrove, you hit the nail on the head again. I took extra celexa today, thinking at least it will do "something." (I don’t think she’s gonna go for increasing my benzos, and I don’t want to ask her to), but I had a really nice nap, and feel better. That is a very very very good idea. I think I will increase my celexa during this time of the month. It was a one time shot (depression is putting it mildly, I was thinking of ways to end my life). It is still in my system, and I can feel the effects during this time of the month. Thanks, Maria
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Maria, Being male, I can’t personally relate to PMS, but the hormonal character of panic disorder has given me some appreciation of the subject. Valerie Davis Raskin, MD, wrote a very good book titled, "When Words Are Not Enough; The Women’s Prescription for Depression and Anxiety." The book is not too expensive and written for the general public, so you may want to buy a copy via Amazon or some other book shop. It covers a lot of issues that are important to women who suffer from anxiety and depression. Best Wishes, Arthur
Thankyou for that information Arthur. I remember it being one of the trivia questions, but I didn’t know what it was about. Maria
its been documented that ssri’s and benzo’s blood plasma levels change when women ovulate and vice versa when they don’t-since you are changing your bodies ability to ovulate the plasma levels may drop somewhat-you may want to ask your doc to augment some benzo or ad meds with your next shot-medroxyprogesterone acetate is a known sensitizer of depression-you can just try and pamper yourself until the effects slough off LM
Maria – YIKES…..deprovera. I’ve heard enough nightmare stories from my two daughters and my soon-to-be daughter-in-law. All three have had unpleasant reactions to it and some very unpleasant effects getting off.
Hi Cindy, For the first time since I got this shot, I feel that "someone understands." My face actually lit up while reading this. (not that they had to go through the horrid mess, but that I’m not alone). It was a one time shot…..that was enough…it just about killed me. (literally). Thankyou for the information!! Maria – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I can hardly keep my thoughts together today…..I’m not going in to work again today. ….and, when I called in, she tried to make me feel guilty. It’s almost like my hormones override these medications. I become overly sensitive, irritable, paranoid, fearful, anxious, restless…..just to name a few symptoms. I know that stupid depo shot is still in my system. I can feel it. I don’t have anything to grip on to, and this is a horrible feeling. Maybe that’s why that show Greed kept my heart pounding last night. I know this will go away in a few days, but what do I do in the meantime? I haven’t done a "pity party" post for awhile, so I guess it was overdue. My doc is out of town AGAIN for the weekend….. I feel like Sharyn today…..I just want to cry. ( Maria Maria – YIKES…..deprovera. I’ve heard enough nightmare stories from my two daughters and my soon-to-be daughter-in-law. All three have had unpleasant reactions to it and some very unpleasant effects getting off. It might be of some comfort to know that your emotional reaction to the provera in depovera is typical. Also know that symptoms of normalizing can go on for 18mo to two years. The progesterone in depovera is a chemically synthesized progestin, not natural hormone and SOME people are terribly sensitive to it. The good news is that although it’s EXTREMELY uncomfortable, kind of like your skin wants to walk off your body and your brain wants to escape, it DOES eventually go away. Some months you may find your own production of hormones will fluctuate and some months may be worse than others. Other chemically synthesized birth control hormones can have the same effect and even when stopped it can take up to and longer than a year to normalize your natural horomes. So you aren’t going crazy, it’s just the hormones talking and it WILL go away. for more information about what you, in your particular situation, can do to help yourself get right sooner…a book I highly recommend (easy read too)…. "Hormonal Health" Michael Colgan, MD. Hope this helps KC Cindy
: I can hardly keep my thoughts together today…..I’m not going in to work again : today. ….and, when I called in, she tried to make me feel guilty. It’s : almost like my hormones override these medications. I become overly sensitive, : irritable, paranoid, fearful, anxious, restless…..just to name a few : symptoms. I know that stupid depo shot is still in my system. I can feel it. : : I don’t have anything to grip on to, and this is a horrible feeling. Maybe : that’s why that show Greed kept my heart pounding last night. : I know this will go away in a few days, but what do I do in the meantime? : I haven’t done a "pity party" post for awhile, so I guess it was overdue. : My doc is out of town AGAIN for the weekend….. : I feel like Sharyn today…..I just want to cry. : ( : Maria Hi Maria, Being male, I can’t personally relate to PMS, but the hormonal character of panic disorder has given me some appreciation of the subject. Valerie Davis Raskin, MD, wrote a very good book titled, "When Words Are Not Enough; The Women’s Prescription for Depression and Anxiety." The book is not too expensive and written for the general public, so you may want to buy a copy via Amazon or some other book shop. It covers a lot of issues that are important to women who suffer from anxiety and depression. Best Wishes, Arthur
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I can hardly keep my thoughts together today…..I’m not going in to work again today. ….and, when I called in, she tried to make me feel guilty. It’s almost like my hormones override these medications. I become overly sensitive, irritable, paranoid, fearful, anxious, restless…..just to name a few symptoms. I know that stupid depo shot is still in my system. I can feel it. I don’t have anything to grip on to, and this is a horrible feeling. Maybe that’s why that show Greed kept my heart pounding last night. I know this will go away in a few days, but what do I do in the meantime? I haven’t done a "pity party" post for awhile, so I guess it was overdue. My doc is out of town AGAIN for the weekend….. I feel like Sharyn today…..I just want to cry. ( Maria
Maria – YIKES…..deprovera. I’ve heard enough nightmare stories from my two daughters and my soon-to-be daughter-in-law. All three have had unpleasant reactions to it and some very unpleasant effects getting off. It might be of some comfort to know that your emotional reaction to the provera in depovera is typical. Also know that symptoms of normalizing can go on for 18mo to two years. The progesterone in depovera is a chemically synthesized progestin, not natural hormone and SOME people are terribly sensitive to it. The good news is that although it’s EXTREMELY uncomfortable, kind of like your skin wants to walk off your body and your brain wants to escape, it DOES eventually go away. Some months you may find your own production of hormones will fluctuate and some months may be worse than others. Other chemically synthesized birth control hormones can have the same effect and even when stopped it can take up to and longer than a year to normalize your natural horomes. So you aren’t going crazy, it’s just the hormones talking and it WILL go away. for more information about what you, in your particular situation, can do to help yourself get right sooner…a book I highly recommend (easy read too)…. "Hormonal Health" Michael Colgan, MD. Hope this helps KC Cindy
Prescription Medication Knowledge Base » Effexor Dose » Over Medicated
Newsgroup: I’m hoping you might have some suggestions for me. I have a friend who has had chronic depression most of her life and has been on almost every antidepressant out there. She’s not bipolar. She recently had four ECT treatments and her pdoc took her off all of her meds for that. She definitely sounded more alert being off her meds, but now he put her back on them and she sounds worse than ever. She takes Effexor XR 450 mg. Remeron 45 mg. Zyprexa 10 mg. and Xanax as needed. This woman is soooo lethargic, fatigued, unmotivated etc. that she just sits and cries. Every medication she takes causes fatigue. I know because I went through a similar situation with the Effexor XR. The fatigue from the meds were making me depressed. Anyway, I am accompanying her to see her pdoc on Monday to see if we can get some answers. Any input on this situation would be greatly appreciated. Glenda
Glenda, My first question is—why is your friend on Zyprexa if she is depressed and not bipolar, which I assume means that she has never displayed mania? Zyprexa is major anti-psychotic or "downer." Robert
Robert: Neuroleptics are sometimes added to AD regimens as augmentation…it helps with uncontrollable suicidal ideation, for instance. One who is there now. Jim "I never had problems with drugs, I had problems with the police." Keith Richards
<Posted and Mailed to Glenda Newsgroup: I’m hoping you might have some suggestions for me. I have a friend who has had chronic depression most of her life and has been on almost every antidepressant out there. She’s not bipolar. She recently had four ECT treatments and her pdoc took her off all of her meds for that. She definitely sounded more alert being off her meds, but now he put her back on them and she sounds worse than ever. She takes Effexor XR 450 mg. Remeron 45 mg. Zyprexa 10 mg. and Xanax as needed.
If the diagnosis is severe clinical depression, I fail to see why she is taking an antipsychotic. IMO she is way over medicated! I suggest that she get a second opinion ASAP! The Effexor dose is very high as well. Remeron makes many people very sleepy as does Zyprexa and Xanax. This woman is soooo lethargic, fatigued, unmotivated etc. that she just sits and cries.
Considering what she is taking, that is not terribly surprising! Every medication she takes causes fatigue. I know because I went through a similar situation with the Effexor XR. The fatigue from the meds were making me depressed. Anyway, I am accompanying her to see her pdoc on Monday to see if we can get some answers. Any input on this situation would be greatly appreciated.
I suggest that you tell Dr. Mengle adios! What she is taking would turn Robin Williams into a zombie! Glenda
Most sincerely, James D. Milton Standard Medical Disclaimer Any opinions stated should NOT be considered as medical advice! You should confirm any suggestions made with your physician who is solely responsible for prescribing ALL medications and monitoring the patient’s progress. Make NO changes in your prescribed dosages without the approval of your doctor!
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Newsgroup: I’m hoping you might have some suggestions for me. I have a friend who has had chronic depression most of her life and has been on almost every antidepressant out there. She’s not bipolar. She recently had four ECT treatments and her pdoc took her off all of her meds for that. She definitely sounded more alert being off her meds, but now he put her back on them and she sounds worse than ever. She takes Effexor XR 450 mg. Remeron 45 mg. Zyprexa 10 mg. and Xanax as needed. This woman is soooo lethargic, fatigued, unmotivated etc. that she just sits and cries. Every medication she takes causes fatigue. I know because I went through a similar situation with the Effexor XR. The fatigue from the meds were making me depressed. Anyway, I am accompanying her to see her pdoc on Monday to see if we can get some answers. Any input on this situation would be greatly appreciated. Glenda
She must rattle so much she makes a good musical instrument.A bit like being a semi comatose member of the percussion family being played by a demented psychiatrist.
Hi Glenda, – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m hoping you might have some suggestions for me. I have a friend who has had chronic depression most of her life and has been on almost every antidepressant out there. She’s not bipolar. She recently had four ECT treatments and her pdoc took her off all of her meds for that. She definitely sounded more alert being off her meds, but now he put her back on them and she sounds worse than ever. She takes Effexor XR 450 mg. Remeron 45 mg. Zyprexa 10 mg. and Xanax as needed. This woman is soooo lethargic, fatigued, unmotivated etc. that she just sits and cries. Every medication she takes causes fatigue. I know because I went through a similar situation with the Effexor XR. The fatigue from the meds were making me depressed. Anyway, I am accompanying her to see her pdoc on Monday to see if we can get some answers. Any input on this situation would be greatly appreciated.
Perhaps she is overmedicated. It is important that her pdoc be informed of her response to the RX meds. Peace, —
Prescription Medication Knowledge Base » Side Effects Of Zoloft » Intrusions
Though I am nearly having a panic attack just –reading– these posts, it is extremely comforting to know I am not the "only" one ! mc
I forgot to mention something else that helps me with intrusions at work. I keep a white noise box, it doesn’t drown out everything, but it actually works quite well. They sell small ones that have like five sound effects (rain, ocean, white noise, babbling brook and rainforest.) Just a thought, if you can’t alleviate the intrusions, cover them up. It’s kind of like when your face breaks out. There is no stopping the problem, but if you are like me, you cover that right up : ) Regards, Julie —
brownee – I have a quick question about your attempt at Effexor. For the first 22 years that I had this disorder I came as close as any of my pdocs had seen to a unipolar manic — no sustained depressions, when I came off the manias (which were acute and severe) I went back to normal. Then 3.5 years ago I had a triple whammy stress within one week right after a mania, and went into my first depression. After 2 years of the depression, when I still showed no sign of coming out of it I finally talked my conservative pdoc into effexor. We ramped up so slowly I could scream, taking 6 months to get up to a therapeutic dosage. But then it worked, and I never got manic (still on the Effexor). Now, many moons later, I am finally getting off the effexor. How long did your pdoc take to bring you up to full speed, and do you think that going manic was the effexor or could it have been how quickly you were put on it? Sympathetically, -Gandalf Souls are like athletes that need opponents worthy of them if they are to be tried and extended and pushed to the full use of their powers, and rewarded according to their capacity. (Thomas Merton) |I’ve tried Effexor and it has been the most effective AD I’ve ever |taken, so much so that it pushed me into the first purely manic episode |I’d ever had after decades of mixed episodes. But it too made that |horrible noise in my head, so now I’m trying Wellbutrin. | |brownee
My pdoc had me increase by 37.5 mg every 3 days until I was up to 300 mg. Starting it had some of the worst side effects of any medication I’ve ever had, but stopping it, at the same rate, was even worse. I had terrible nausea whenever I was even late with a dose, but at least that reminded me to take it. Cutting down I just had to live through the nausea. I’d been on only Prozac since 91 because I’d only been to idiots since then until I crashed big-time in December and got in to see a pdoc with a clue. Even when I spent 4 months in bed a few years ago, the doctors just told me to keep taking my Prozac and I’d be ok. So my experience about 6 weeks ago of my first purely manic episode was such a shock to my system after so many years (40+) of unrelenting depression relieved only by mixed episodes. I really couldn’t say with such limited experience on various ADs just what it was that threw me into mania. Seems like taking 6 months to get to a therapeutic dose isn’t any smarter than going too fast. I was in such bad shape that I wasn’t eating at all and was in danger of death from the kind of heart failure that anorexics die of, so the pdoc needed to do whatever it took to snap me out of it. brownee – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – brownee – I have a quick question about your attempt at Effexor. For the first 22 years that I had this disorder I came as close as any of my pdocs had seen to a unipolar manic — no sustained depressions, when I came off the manias (which were acute and severe) I went back to normal. Then 3.5 years ago I had a triple whammy stress within one week right after a mania, and went into my first depression. After 2 years of the depression, when I still showed no sign of coming out of it I finally talked my conservative pdoc into effexor. We ramped up so slowly I could scream, taking 6 months to get up to a therapeutic dosage. But then it worked, and I never got manic (still on the Effexor). Now, many moons later, I am finally getting off the effexor. How long did your pdoc take to bring you up to full speed, and do you think that going manic was the effexor or could it have been how quickly you were put on it? Sympathetically, -Gandalf Souls are like athletes that need opponents worthy of them if they are to be tried and extended and pushed to the full use of their powers, and rewarded according to their capacity. (Thomas Merton) |I’ve tried Effexor and it has been the most effective AD I’ve ever |taken, so much so that it pushed me into the first purely manic episode |I’d ever had after decades of mixed episodes. But it too made that |horrible noise in my head, so now I’m trying Wellbutrin. | |brownee
When my meds are not working that is when the "intrusions" are most annoying to me. It is one of the ways that I know that it is time for another trip to the pdoc. I could kill my hubby when he eats an apple
Then I must need a lot of trips to the pdoc, cause my meds never work But we’ll see if Neurontin works, also the psych (therp) I started seeing… ..always, Treacha ..as the twig bends…so the tree grows…
bw
brownee – I have a quick question about your attempt at Effexor. For the first 22 years
Hi Brownee and Gandalf, My motto is "Start low and go SLOW!!! That way effects can be judiciously monitored. Peace, Reach beyond your grasp!
My motto is "Start low and go SLOW!!! HEAR, HEAR! With Effexor, it is especially important. I went into a manic state you would have to have seen to believe when I was put on a huge dose of it. Besides, that should be the rule for all meds. IMHO
Amen! All pdocs should learn that on their very first day of residency. Also most meds require them to be tapered off — not stopping them cold turkey. Slowly on — slowly off. Your friend on the rollercoaster from hell, Shawn
Best regards from, James
<Posted and Mailed to Brownee [snipped] Kids shrieking and bass sounds are on my pet peeve list too. I’ve wondered though just what it is. When I complain about things like that to "normals" they just give me a disgusted look like can’t you come up with something more important to complain about and say everybody resents unwanted noise. But does the unwanted noise feel like physical assault, which is exactly what it feels like to me, to the "normals"? A minor inconvenience to others is acoustic "rape" to me. Thus I prefer to be online early in the morning before the "rapists" awaken. Thanks for using physical assault verbiage too. I’ve likened it to rape too but been told to chill. A relative tells me to "tune it out" while making tuning motions over her ears. Would she be telling me to tune out rape too?
If they don’t walk in our shoes, they can’t possibly understand or relate. [snipped] I no longer recommend regular Effexor now that the extended release (XR) formulation has come out. Originally regular Effexor was prescribed twice per day for me. I went into URC as the med came into my system and then departed — this was repeated twice per day. Once I realized what was happening, I took my total daily prescribed dose, divided it into 4 equal portions, and took it QID. My URC problem was solved immediately! Now I take Effexor XR BID with no cycling whatsoever. You might have a similar positive experience with Effexor XR. My pdoc just doesn’t give me any extended release anything, even though I tell him I can’t keep track of time very well these days. Right now I’m on regular Wellbutrin, which he wrote on the prescription to be taken 3X daily, at least 6 hours apart. How does he expect me to be able to do that when I can’t keep track of time, which I’d reminded him of minutes before? I’ve been on it for 2 weeks and haven’t made the third dose once yet.
Does your watch have an alarm function on it that you can set to remind you to take your meds? If not you should be able to buy an inexpensive digital travel alarm that would do the job. Is the XR more expensive? (HMO-paid Rxs)
Yes. But percentage wise not that much more — particularly considering the benefits you receive. I guess that’s why they’re asking what time of day I get manic and how long it lasts but I just can’t keep track of time well enough to tell them.
How about recording your mood index (1-10) every 15 minutes? You will need an alarm to remember to write the value down. Also record when you take your meds. Plotting your mood index can show med-induced URC. The reason that I mentioned Remeron is that it also works with the same two essential neurotransmitters (norepinephrine and serotonin) — however this med’s mechanism is different from than of Effexor. Wellbutrin addresses a third neurotransmitter (dopamine). BTW the SSRIs don’t do much for me (other than sending me hypomanic). So I infer that my brain needs more stimulation from norepinephrine (think adrenaline for the brain). Other options to consider are mood stabilizer meds that affect GABA (Neurontin and Gabatril). I have no personal experience with Gabatril but I have had truly exceptional results from Neurontin. YBMV. In what way is Neurontin different from Depakote?
Oh, about the difference between a 1920 Ford Model "T" and a 1999 Ferrari. There is no comparison whatsoever. But Neurontin is a bit tricky to "drive". It is very powerful and you can spin out and "lose" control — particularly since most pdocs don’t have the faintest idea how to prescribe it. My guesstimate is that if properly prescribed, Neurontin would be effective for around 50% of those trying it as monotherapy. With polytherapy the percentage should increase. BTW I’m in the process of updating my FAQ on Mood Stabilizers used in the US. I’m up to a dozen and still counting. I doubt if I will post it today since I’m getting rather tired — and the Lord knows I need my beauty sleep. <G Depakote is the HMOs standard drug for mania, other drugs have to be justified by bad side-effects or lack of effectiveness.
<SIGH!!! Penny wise and pound foolish as always. I’ve only been on Depakote for 6 weeks, too soon to tell.
I suggest giving Depakote 2 months just to be sure. You should be in the established "therapeutic" range for 2 consecutive blood tests (usually a week apart). Your liver function should also be checked to make sure its not being adversely affected. Have you lost any hair or gained any weight? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – BTW I think it was you that asked something about how certain meds can induce URC? I was trying to respond when something screwed up and I lost several posts. I may take some time off and try to formulate and solve the differential equations to demonstrate the effect of a short half life drug has on stability. It shouldn’t be too hard — assuming of course I can shift my brain into high gear. An interesting challenge. I haven’t done any math for more than ten years. BTW I even use a calculator to do basic arithmetic. <Sigh! Yes, it was me. I know you’ve been not feeling well these last few days, James, so I was hoping someone else would post something pointing me to some of your old posts or a Web page or something. This is the first time in my life I’ve been under active pdoc care during a crash-and-burn (I usually just go into total isolation and wait for it to be over) so the frequent changing of meds and constant questioning (what time of day do you start to get manic? how long does it last? etc.) are really disconcerting. I don’t know if what I’m going through now is what I do anyway, just haven’t been dwelling on it, or because of all the meds, or what. To reduce the confusion and to hopefully introduce some measure of order in the midst of chaos, I NEVER like to make more than one med or dosage change at a time. I then wait for a sufficient time and see what transpires. Now obviously in a hospital situation more aggressive measures can (and should) be taken. But what’s sufficient time?
It all depends on several factors (is the med metabolized?, if so how rapidly?, what is the removal half life?, and how long does it take for the brain require for it to become sensitized to the med?). It is the latter factor which gives rise to the greatest uncertainty. Because some people’s brains apparently never become sensitized and so the med is not effective for them. Others become desensitized and a med switch is necessary. I have no idea whether the meds I’m now on (Depakote and Wellbutrin) are doing enough of what they’re supposed to be doing, just that they aren’t having sufficiently bad side effects that I need to change. Up until this crash, I had been a slow cycler, but this time, events had been set in motion before the crash that are carrying me along in such a way that the crash would have been different anyway. (For example, this is the first time I’ve had disability insurance and so the first time I’ve had to deal with a bureaucracy during what is usually my isolation/recovery period.) So between just being totally screwed over by the severity of the depressive crash in December and these other influences, I’m having a very hard time judging anything.
Bureaucratic incompetencies are enough to drive a well person insane!!! James, I join the rest of those asking you to take care of yourself. Thank you! However as long as I don’t move, I seem to be doing OK. But I am intending additional bed rest. Then I’ll have to figure out some way of posting binary graphical files that people could decode. Or maybe I should just create a Web site? Any suggestions from anyone as to which is the best way to go? I guess creating a Web site would provide greater access — but since I have never done any HTML programming, it would be just one more thing for me to learn. I can’t afford to buy any of these specialized programs that aid in Web page creation. Besides I run 16-bit Windows. HTML is a snap. I had my first web page up within a couple of days of starting. Haven’t you done computer-type stuff before?
Sure, I’ve had experience with a couple dozen or so programming languages and operating systems. I presume there are tutorial Web pages about HTML. Do you have any URLs to recommend? My biggest mental block was that HTML is so crude it was beneath my dignity to learn. You don’t want anything very cutesy anyway, just a straightforward presentation of the facts. That’s assuming, of course, that you’re in a mental state to learn anything right now. You whip out these facts so readily that I assume you’re currently in good mental shape, just not physical, so maybe that was a wrong assumption. Hope you’re doing better today.
Mentally I’m doing OK. I just don’t want to bite off more than I can comfortably chew time wise. The number of NG posts seem to have increased of late. I hate to let them go while I’m dinking around with DEs and HTML. brownee
Best wishes from, James
[snipped] Kids shrieking and bass sounds are on my pet peeve list too. I’ve wondered though just what it is. When I complain about things like that to "normals" they just give me a disgusted look like can’t you come up with something more important to complain about and say everybody resents unwanted noise. But does the unwanted noise feel like physical assault, which is exactly what it feels like to me, to the "normals"? A minor inconvenience to others is acoustic "rape" to me. Thus I prefer to be online early in the morning before the "rapists" awaken.
Thanks for using physical assault verbage too. I’ve likened it to rape too but been told to chill. A relative tells me to "tune it out" while making tuning motions over her ears. Would she be telling me to tune out rape too? [snipped] I no longer recommend regular Effexor now that the extended release (XR) formulation has come out. Originally regular Effexor was prescribed twice per day for me. I went into URC as the med came into my system and then departed — this was repeated twice per day. Once I realized what was happening, I took my total daily prescribed dose, divided it into 4 equal portions, and took it QID. My URC problem was solved immediately! Now I take Effexor XR BID with no cycling whatsoever. You might have a similar positive experience with Effexor XR.
My pdoc just doesn’t give me any extended release anything, even though I tell him I can’t keep track of time very well these days. Right now I’m on regular Wellbutrin, which he wrote on the prescription to be taken 3xdaily, at least 6 hours apart. How does he expect me to be able to do that when I can’t keep track of time, which I’d reminded him of minutes before? I’ve been on it for 2 weeks and haven’t made the third dose once yet. Is the XR more expensive? (HMO-paid rx’s) I guess that’s why they’re asking what time of day I get manic and how long it lasts but I just can’t keep track of time well enough to tell them. The reason that I mentioned Remeron is that it also works with the same two essential neurotransmitters (norepinephrine and serotonin) — however this med’s mechanism is different from than of Effexor. Wellbutrin addresses a third neurotransmitter (dopamine). BTW the SSRIs don’t do much for me (other than sending me hypomanic). So I infer that my brain needs more stimulation from norepinephrine (think adrenaline for the brain). Other options to consider are mood stabilizer meds that affect GABA (Neurontin and Gabatril). I have no personal experience with Gabatril but I have had truly exceptional results from Neurontin. YBMV.
In what way is Neurontin different from Depakote? Depakote is the HMO’s standard drug for mania, other drugs have to be justified by bad side-effects or lack of effectiveness. I’ve only been on Depakote for 6 weeks, too soon to tell. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – BTW I think it was you that asked something about how certain meds can induce URC? I was trying to respond when something screwed up and I lost several posts. I may take some time off and try to formulate and solve the differential equations to demonstrate the effect of a short half life drug has on stability. It shouldn’t be too hard — assuming of course I can shift my brain into high gear. An interesting challenge. I haven’t done any math for more than ten years. BTW I even use a calculator to do basic arithmetic. <Sigh! Yes, it was me. I know you’ve been not feeling well these last few days, James, so I was hoping someone else would post something pointing me to some of your old posts or a Web page or something. This is the first time in my life I’ve been under active pdoc care during a crash-and-burn (I usually just go into total isolation and wait for it to be over) so the frequent changing of meds and constant questioning (what time of day do you start to get manic? how long does it last? etc.) are really disconcerting. I don’t know if what I’m going through now is what I do anyway, just haven’t been dwelling on it, or because of all the meds, or what. To reduce the confusion and to hopefully introduce some measure of order in the midst of chaos, I NEVER like to make more than one med or dosage change at a time. I then wait for a sufficient time and see what transpires. Now obviously in a hospital situation more aggressive measures can (and should) be taken.
But what’s sufficient time? I have no idea whether the meds I’m now on (Depakote and Wellbutrin) are doing enough of what they’re supposed to be doing, just that they aren’t having sufficiently bad side-effects that I need to change. Up until this crash, I had been a slow cycler, but this time, events had been set in motion before the crash that are carrying me along in such a way that the crash would have been different anyway. (For example, this is the first time I’ve had disability insurance and so the first time I’ve had to deal with a bureaucracy during what is usually my isolation/recovery period.) So between just being totally screwed over by the severity of the depressive crash in December and these other influences, I’m having a very hard time judging anything. James, I join the rest of those asking you to take care of yourself. Thank you! However as long as I don’t move, I seem to be doing OK. But I am intending additional bed rest. Then I’ll have to figure out some way of posting binary graphical files that people could decode. Or maybe I should just create a Web site? Any suggestions from anyone as to which is the best way to go? I guess creating a Web site would provide greater access — but since I have never done any HTML programming, it would be just one more thing for me to learn. I can’t afford to buy any of these specialized programs that aid in Web page creation. Besides I run 16-bit Windows.
HTML is a snap. I had my first web page up within a couple of days of starting. Haven’t you done computer-type stuff before? My biggest mental block was that HTML is so crude it was beneath my dignity to learn. You don’t want anything very cutesy anyway, just a straightforward presentation of the facts. That’s assuming, of course, that you’re in a mental state to learn anything right now. You whip out these facts so readily that I assume you’re currently in good mental shape, just not physical, so maybe that was a wrong assumption. Hope you’re doing better today. brownee Best regards from, James
brownee
<Posted and Mailed to Brownee – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – After I talked with my pdoc yesterday, I realized what my problem must be. It’s not a complete breakthru, I must have known it before. A real breakthru would be to overcome these — intrusions. <snipped To me, the worst is the thwump-thwump-thwump of a basketball. On a good day I can drown it out making my own noise inside but on a bad day I’m in bed in a fetal position with hands over my head sobbing. All those noises feel like physical assaults, not just sound. A thump, thump bass sound does that to me. I don’t mind basketball sounds. Perhaps having played it may have some bearing. Another sound that grates on my nerves is the shrieks of young girls playing. They are just having fun. I assure you that it is NO FUN for me!!! Kids shrieking and bass sounds are on my pet peeve list too. I’ve wondered though just what it is. When I complain about things like that to "normals" they just give me a disgusted look like can’t you come up with something more important to complain about and say everybody resents unwanted noise. But does the unwanted noise feel like physical assault, which is exactly what it feels like to me, to the "normals"?
A minor inconvenience to others is acoustic "rape" to me. Thus I prefer to be online early in the morning before the "rapists" awaken. My pdoc says SSRIs help this problem but we haven’t been able to find one that doesn’t give me a rare side-effect — a staticky noise in my brain, like electricity going off in there. Makes taking all the other noises even harder. So maybe my pdoc isn’t right about this one. Just a thought: Have you ever tried Effexor XR or Remeron? No guarantees! Also there is the new antidepressant Celexa that reputedly has fewer adverse side effects than any other SSRI. I’ve tried Effexor and it has been the most effective AD I’ve ever taken, so much so that it pushed me into the first purely manic episode I’d ever had after decades of mixed episodes. But it too made that horrible noise in my head, so now I’m trying Wellbutrin.
I no longer recommend regular Effexor now that the extended release (XR) formulation has come out. Originally regular Effexor was prescribed twice per day for me. I went into URC as the med came into my system and then departed — this was repeated twice per day. Once I realized what was happening, I took my total daily prescribed dose, divided it into 4 equal portions, and took it QID. My URC problem was solved immediately! Now I take Effexor XR BID with no cycling whatsoever. You might have a similar positive experience with Effexor XR. The reason that I mentioned Remeron is that it also works with the same two essential neurotransmitters (norepinephrine and serotonin) — however this med’s mechanism is different from than of Effexor. Wellbutrin addresses a third neurotransmitter (dopamine). BTW the SSRIs don’t do much for me (other than sending me hypomanic). So I infer that my brain needs more stimulation from norepinephrine (think adrenaline for the brain). Other options to consider are mood stabilizer meds that affect GABA (Neurontin and Gabatril). I have no personal experience with Gabatril but I have had truly exceptional results from Neurontin. YBMV. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – BTW I think it was you that asked something about how certain meds can induce URC? I was trying to respond when something screwed up and I lost several posts. I may take some time off and try to formulate and solve the differential equations to demonstrate the effect of a short half life drug has on stability. It shouldn’t be too hard — assuming of course I can shift my brain into high gear. An interesting challenge. I haven’t done any math for more than ten years. BTW I even use a calculator to do basic arithmetic. <Sigh! Yes, it was me. I know you’ve been not feeling well these last few days, James, so I was hoping someone else would post something pointing me to some of your old posts or a Web page or something. This is the first time in my life I’ve been under active pdoc care during a crash-and-burn (I usually just go into total isolation and wait for it to be over) so the frequent changing of meds and constant questioning (what time of day do you start to get manic? how long does it last? etc.) are really disconcerting. I don’t know if what I’m going through now is what I do anyway, just haven’t been dwelling on it, or because of all the meds, or what.
To reduce the confusion and to hopefully introduce some measure of order in the midst of chaos, I NEVER like to make more than one med or dosage change at a time. I then wait for a sufficient time and see what transpires. Now obviously in a hospital situation more aggressive measures can (and should) be taken. James, I join the rest of those asking you to take care of yourself.
Thank you! However as long as I don’t move, I seem to be doing OK. But I am intending additional bed rest. Then I’ll have to figure out some way of posting binary graphical files that people could decode. Or maybe I should just create a Web site?
Any suggestions from anyone as to which is the best way to go? I guess creating a Web site would provide greater access — but since I have never done any HTML programming, it would be just one more thing for me to learn. I can’t afford to buy any of these specialized programs that aid in Web page creation. Besides I run 16-bit Windows. brownee
Best regards from, James
When my meds are not working that is when the "intrusions" are most annoying to me. It is one of the ways that I know that it is time for another trip to the pdoc. I could kill my hubby when he eats an apple ..always, Treacha ..as the twig bends…so the tree grows…
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <Posted and Mailed to Brownee After I talked with my pdoc yesterday, I realized what my problem must be. It’s not a complete breakthru, I must have known it before. A real breakthru would be to overcome these — intrusions. <snipped To me, the worst is the thwump-thwump-thwump of a basketball. On a good day I can drown it out making my own noise inside but on a bad day I’m in bed in a fetal position with hands over my head sobbing. All those noises feel like physical assaults, not just sound. A thump, thump bass sound does that to me. I don’t mind basketball sounds. Perhaps having played it may have some bearing. Another sound that grates on my nerves is the shrikes of young girls playing. They are just having fun. I assure you that it is NO FUN for me!!!
Kids shrieking and bass sounds are on my pet peeve list too. I’ve wondered though just what it is. When I complain about things like that to "normals" they just give me a disgusted look like can’t you come up with something more important to complain about and say everybody resents unwanted noise. But does the unwanted noise feel like physical assault, which is exactly what it feels like to me, to the "nromals"? My pdoc says SSRIs help this problem but we haven’t been able to find one that doesn’t give me a rare side-effect — a staticky noise in my brain, like electricity going off in there. Makes taking all the other noises even harder. So maybe my pdoc isn’t right about this one. Just a thought: Have you ever tried Effexor XR or Remeron? No guarantees! Also there is the new antidepressant Celexa that reputedly has fewer adverse side effects than any other SSRI.
I’ve tried Effexor and it has been the most effective AD I’ve ever taken, so much so that it pushed me into the first purely manic episode I’d ever had after decades of mixed episodes. But it too made that horrible noise in my head, so now I’m trying Wellbutrin. BTW I think it was you that asked something about how certain meds can induce URC? I was trying to respond when something screwed up and I lost several posts. I may take some time off and try to formulate and solve the differential equations to demonstrate the effect of a short half life drug has on stability. It shouldn’t be too hard — assuming of course I can shift my brain into high gear. An interesting challenge. I haven’t done any math for more than ten years. BTW I even use a calculator to do basic arithmetic. <Sigh!
Yes, it was me. I know you’ve been not feeling well these last few days, James, so I was hoping someone else would post something pointing me to some of your old posts or a webpage or something. This is the first time in my life I’ve been under active pdoc care during a crash-and-burn (I usually just go into total isolation and wait for it to be over) so the frequent changing of meds and constant questioning (what time of day do you start to get manic? how long does it last? etc) are really disconcerting. I don’t know if what I’m going through now is what I do anyway, just haven’t been dwelling on it, or because of all the meds, or what. James, I join the rest of those asking you to take care of yourself. Then I’ll have to figure out some way of posting binary graphical files that people could decode. Or maybe I should just create a Web site? brownee Best regards from, James
brownee
<snip That is tough, I can relate. I get overwhelmed by intrusions alot. I need peace time. Time by myself to rejuvenate or I am lost.
<snip me too. You are optimistic, I think, to think of these things as intrusions. I whine about "painful stimuli". Also, as my dearest friends know…I am developing agorophobia as a coping mechanism. Seriously, not afraid to leave the house, just not willing to pay the price much anymore. Kicker, isn’t it, when even good times are stressors?! Understand completely (?), regards from julie
<Posted and Mailed to Brownee After I talked with my pdoc yesterday, I realized what my problem must be. It’s not a complete breakthru, I must have known it before. A real breakthru would be to overcome these — intrusions. <snipped To me, the worst is the thwump-thwump-thwump of a basketball. On a good day I can drown it out making my own noise inside but on a bad day I’m in bed in a fetal position with hands over my head sobbing. All those noises feel like physical assaults, not just sound.
A thump, thump bass sound does that to me. I don’t mind basketball sounds. Perhaps having played it may have some bearing. Another sound that grates on my nerves is the shrikes of young girls playing. They are just having fun. I assure you that it is NO FUN for me!!! My pdoc says SSRIs help this problem but we haven’t been able to find one that doesn’t give me a rare side-effect — a staticky noise in my brain, like electricity going off in there. Makes taking all the other noises even harder. So maybe my pdoc isn’t right about this one.
Just a thought: Have you ever tried Effexor XR or Remeron? No guarantees! Also there is the new antidepressant Celexa that reputedly has fewer adverse side effects than any other SSRI. BTW I think it was you that asked something about how certain meds can induce URC? I was trying to respond when something screwed up and I lost several posts. I may take some time off and try to formulate and solve the differential equations to demonstrate the effect of a short half life drug has on stability. It shouldn’t be too hard — assuming of course I can shift my brain into high gear. An interesting challenge. I haven’t done any math for more than ten years. BTW I even use a calculator to do basic arithmetic. <Sigh! Then I’ll have to figure out some way of posting binary graphical files that people could decode. Or maybe I should just create a Web site? brownee
Best regards from, James
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A perfect illustration between the bipolar and the schizophrenic was learned in my psych rotation… Bipolar is a mood disorder classification(like yhu don’t know that one) Depression is depression, mania is mania. Really reallyhappy…really really said – DUH…right? Scizophrenia is a thought disorder. My schz pt scored higher on the Beck depression score than I did. No depressive symtpoms noted with the exception of the flat affect and lethargic gait, most likely due to meds. However, when asked to write a letter to his mom, he wrote the whole letter and then starting back from the beginning – added the punctuation! THOOUGHT Disorder. Bipolar – as I am sure you are aware – can have psychotic features, and especially drug induced which is very commen in non compliant pts who self medicate. My mother too, was diagnosed scz in the 60’s when psychiatric research was still so young….but as i look back now, and replay the pattern of her life. She was Bipolar with drug indced psychosis, noncompliant, self medicater. Just a thought. Elaine A perfect illustration between the bipolar and the schizophrenic was learned in my psych rotation… Bipolar – as I am sure you are aware – can have psychotic features, and especially drug induced which is very commen in non compliant pts who self medicate.
I think that may be the case, but he doesn’t self medicate anymore. I think he just got fried as a guinea pig in the institutions. He was completely at their mercy. All I remember is when he got out… in a moment of clarity, he remarked "I have walked through hell." I don’t know if he is bipolar and severely burned from treatment, or a true sz. May none of us know the hell he saw. He went to NY and lived the streets for three years after that. He went to California. When he finally returned to Miami he was so far gone. Those moments of clarity are fewer than ever. I think part of the delusions are armor for protection. I will never know. My mother too, was diagnosed scz in the 60’s when psychiatric research was still so young….but as i look back now, and replay the pattern of her life. She was Bipolar with drug indced psychosis, noncompliant, self medicater.
In the early days he would use alcohol but that ended after his hospitalizations to the best of my knowledge. Just a thought.
Thanks for your input Elaine. Julie —
My father is a diagnosed schizophrenic. Interesting. (I mentioned my father to my pdoc. He doesn’t think I’m sz, but he has me on Risperdal, which is a typical sz med.)
My father is also a dx’d schizophrenic, although my doc believes that he is BP since my sister and I are BP. I understand alot of people are misdiagnosed. I must say that my father was not misdiagnosed. He is a true schizophrenic. This might explain the way I feel so sensitized to stimuli all around me. Hmmmmmmmmmm. Julie —
A perfect illustration between the bipolar and the schizophrenic was learned in my psych rotation… Bipolar is a mood disorder classification(like yhu don’t know that one) Depression is depression, mania is mania. Really reallyhappy…really really said – DUH…right? Scizophrenia is a thought disorder. My schz pt scored higher on the Beck depression score than I did. No depressive symtpoms noted with the exception of the flat affect and lethargic gait, most likely due to meds. However, when asked to write a letter to his mom, he wrote the whole letter and then starting back from the beginning – added the punctuation! THOOUGHT Disorder. Bipolar – as I am sure you are aware – can have psychotic features, and especially drug induced which is very commen in non compliant pts who self medicate. My mother too, was diagnosed scz in the 60’s when psychiatric research was still so young….but as i look back now, and replay the pattern of her life. She was Bipolar with drug indced psychosis, noncompliant, self medicater. Just a thought. Elaine
<Posted and Mailed
<Snipped – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Many (most?) people just plain don’t care how much their actions may annoy others! My current Major Objection is the fact that I live in a low income housing project where it must the requirement for every vehicle to be equipped with kilowatt subwuffers continually blasting out rap at top volume. Even in my cave barricaded against all types of sounds, I am immersed, assaulted, awakened, and auditorily raped. This goes on for hours on end. At times I think I need to scream! I would — if I thought it would do any good whatsoever. Perhaps some relief may occur when the temperature will get hot enough to turn on the swamp cooler.
<snipped James
When the thumping bass of my neighbors stereo is louder in my appartment than my own TV….I seriously consider introducing my neighbor to an ancient chinese addage that goes "please don’t hit my fist with your face." Then add to that "rap" sh*t, the sounds of car alarm systems, screaming at 2am "THE VIPER IS ARMED". I hear what you are saying James. Ralph
I am in psych graduate school, and in one class we had a guest lecturer from the Health Science Center here in Denver. He talked about experiments which they have done upon schizophrenics (sz) in which they expose the sz to repeated clicks next to their ears. Normal controls eventually habituate to the sound, i.e. eventually their brains don’t even register the sound any more and it becomes background noise. In contrast, sz never habituate, and the evoked potentials in their brains are just as "startled" looking after 15 minutes of continuous ear clicks. So the poor sz is never able to tune the sound out. They have explored this finding and found that relatives of sz also share this phenomena — they don’t shut out the sound either — but somehow these healthier relatives are able to "multitask" and follow that sound as well as other stimuli.
My father is a diagnosed schizophrenic. Interesting. (I mentioned my father to my pdoc. He doesn’t think I’m sz, but he has me on Risperdal, which is a typical sz med.) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -In addition there was evidence that within the family that the sz have a smaller brain region (I believe it was hippocampus but don’t quote me) than their relatives who were able to multitask. So, in a bizarre way, conceivably this ability to handle multiple stimuli at once is an evolutionary advantage for most relatives in sz families, except for the unfortunates who have the disorder or a damaged hippocampus. If you have a half-pint screening device and the ability to hear all of the radio stations at once that inability to hunker down and shut out all of the competing stimuli drives you crazy. -Gandalf There is a silence where hath been no sound There is a silence where no sound may be In the cold grave, under the deep deep sea. Thomas Hood (1799-1845)
bw
<Posted and Mailed – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – After I talked with my pdoc yesterday, I realized what my problem must be. It’s not a complete breakthru, I must have known it before. A real breakthru would be to overcome these — intrusions. Intrusions. When people in the next cubicle talk loudly and laugh loudly and I can hear them over my earplugs and headphone music, they are intrusive. When I have to take a big whiff of somebody else’s microwave meal, although my cubicle is not very close to the microwave, it is intrusive. When I am in my house , with the windows shut, and I have to hear outside noises (dogs, cars, lawn mowers & blowers, etc.), they are intrusive. When I am trying to concentrate in a class or meeting, and people tap their pencils or play drums on the tables, or shuffle their feet or bounce their legs, or other audible and visible distractions, they are intrusive. I can think of many other examples of how people can be intrusive, even if they don’t mean to be (yeah, right!) But that’s my problem.
Many (most?) people just plain don’t care how much their actions may annoy others! My current Major Objection is the fact that I live in a low income housing project where it must the requirement for every vehicle to be equipped with kilowatt subwuffers continually blasting out rap at top volume. Even in my cave barricaded against all types of sounds, I am immersed, assaulted, awakened, and auditorily raped. This goes on for hours on end. At times I think I need to scream! I would — if I thought it would do any good whatsoever. Perhaps some relief may occur when the temperature will get hot enough to turn on the swamp cooler. I thought about this ever since I told my pdoc about the Poe "The Fall of the House of Usher", where the man would be tormented by sounds and smells. Could that be me? (Who’d ever think a Poe tale to be therapeutic? :)
I am even tormented by people grilling a steak a block away. I immediately feel like making new friends. Interests (as I posted) — I have several. There are many things I want to do. But people with their intrusions get in the way. Neurontin — I just started. Hope it works. (My lithium level was too low, but I had too many side effects.) Zoloft and Risperdal — they continue.
If you are sensitive to Neurontin’s antidepressive effects, you may need to reduce or even totally eliminate Zoloft to prevent (hypo)mania from being induced. Be warned and be very careful how you take Neurontin. But whatever the meds, I have to somehow deal with the intrusion factor.
Short of a prefrontal lobotomy — I don’t know what to do either. I certainly wish I could turn my sensitivity setting down a bunch!!! Maybe this is a social phobia issue? But I tried the social phob. NG before. Nobody would answer what I had to say. (Too phobic, I guess. <g ) Hope you-all answer. Thanks. bw PS The internet at work is down, so I’m going in late; I am typing this from the public library. (Which isn’t easy for me, with all the people here. Maybe I’m putting my nervous energy toward this message?) So you can see that either this issue is important to me, or I’m an NG addict or something …
I don’t mind admitting that I’m a Net addict. I believe that some addictions are worth having. James
After I talked with my pdoc yesterday, I realized what my problem must be. It’s not a complete breakthru, I must have known it before. A real breakthru would be to over come these — intrusions.
<snipped To me, the worst is the thwump-thwump-thwump of a basketball. On a good day I can drown it out making my own noise inside but on a bad day I’m in bed in a fetal position with hands over my head sobbing. All those noises feel like physical assaults, not just sound. My pdoc says SSRIs help this problem but we haven’t been able to find one that doesn’t give me a rare side-effect — a staticky noise in my brain, like electricity going off in there. Makes taking all the other noises even harder. So maybe my pdoc isn’t right about this one. brownee
I can usually handle the music at loud parties in the nieghbor hood – it is the screaming OVER the music that I just go ballistic over. And what about people you ride in the car with who take 10 minutes to find the perfect station, turn up the volumne and then start a conversation? Elaine
I am in psych graduate school, and in one class we had a guest lecturer from the Health Science Center here in Denver. He talked about experiments which they have done upon schizophrenics (sz) in which they expose the sz to repeated clicks next to their ears. Normal controls eventually habituate to the sound, i.e. eventually their brains don’t even register the sound any more and it becomes background noise. In contrast, sz never habituate, and the evoked potentials in their brains are just as "startled" looking after 15 minutes of continuous ear clicks. So the poor sz is never able to tune the sound out. They have explored this finding and found that relatives of sz also share this phenomena — they don’t shut out the sound either — but somehow these healthier relatives are able to "multitask" and follow that sound as well as other stimuli. In addition there was evidence that within the family that the sz have a smaller brain region (I believe it was hippocampus but don’t quote me) than their relatives who were able to multitask. So, in a bizarre way, conceivably this ability to handle multiple stimuli at once is an evolutionary advantage for most relatives in sz families, except for the unfortunates who have the disorder or a damaged hippocampus. If you have a half-pint screening device and the ability to hear all of the radio stations at once that inability to hunker down and shut out all of the competing stimuli drives you crazy. -Gandalf There is a silence where hath been no sound There is a silence where no sound may be In the cold grave, under the deep deep sea. Thomas Hood (1799-1845)
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – After I talked with my pdoc yesterday, I realized what my problem must be. It’s not a complete breakthru, I must have known it before. A real breakthru would be to over come these — intrusions. Intrusions. When people in the next cubicle talk loudly and laugh loudly and I can hear them over my earplugs and headphone music, they are intrusive. When I have to take a big whiff of somebody else’s microwave meal, although my cubicle is not very close to the microwave, it is intrusive. When I am in my house , with the windows shut, and I have to hear outside noises (dogs, cars, lawn mowers & blowers, etc), they are intrusive. When I am trying to concentrate in a class or meeting, and people tap their pencils or play drums on the tables, or shuffle their feet or bounce their legs, or other audible and visible distractions, they are intrusive.
Don’t forget the evil perfume addicts. I can think of many other examples of how people can be intrusive, even if they don’t mean to be (yeah, right!) But that’s my problem. I thought about this ever since I told my pdoc about the Poe "The Fall of the House of Usher", where the man would be tormented by sounds and smells. Could that be me? (Who’d ever think a Poe tale to be therapeutic? :) Interests (as I posted) — I have several. There are many things I want to do. But people with their intrusions get in the way.
That is tough, I can relate. I get overwhelmed by intrusions alot. I need peace time. Time by myself to rejuvenate or I am lost. Neurontin — I just started. Hope it works. (My lithium level was to low, but I had too many side effects.) Zoloft and Risperdal — they continue.
Neurontin here too. Unfortunately it is a new drug for me so no advice here. I hope it helps, especially with fewer side effects! But whatever the meds, I have to somehow deal with the intrusion factor. Maybe this is a social phobia issue? But I tried the social phob. NG before. Nobody would answer what I had to say. (Too phobic, I guess. <g ) Hope you-all answer. Thanks. bw PS The internet at work is down, so I’m going in late; I am typing this from the public library. (Which isn’t easy for me, with all the people here. Maybe I’m putting my nervous energy toward this message?) So you can see that either this issue is important to me, or I’m an NG addict or something
Ditto… it is my equivalent to an interactive soap opera. Normally I don’t respond to this many posts, but I have more free time and the Neurontin is making me happy! Good Luck! Julie —
After I talked with my pdoc yesterday, I realized what my problem must be. It’s not a complete breakthru, I must have known it before. A real breakthru would be to over come these — intrusions. Intrusions. When people in the next cubicle talk loudly and laugh loudly and I can hear them over my earplugs and headphone music, they are intrusive. When I have to take a big whiff of somebody else’s microwave meal, although my cubicle is not very close to the microwave, it is intrusive. When I am in my house , with the windows shut, and I have to hear outside noises (dogs, cars, lawn mowers & blowers, etc), they are intrusive. When I am trying to concentrate in a class or meeting, and people tap their pencils or play drums on the tables, or shuffle their feet or bounce their legs, or other audible and visible distractions, they are intrusive. I can think of many other examples of how people can be intrusive, even if they don’t mean to be (yeah, right!) But that’s my problem. I thought about this ever since I told my pdoc about the Poe "The Fall of the House of Usher", where the man would be tormented by sounds and smells. Could that be me? (Who’d ever think a Poe tale to be therapeutic? :) Interests (as I posted) — I have several. There are many things I want to do. But people with their intrusions get in the way. Neurontin — I just started. Hope it works. (My lithium level was to low, but I had too many side effects.) Zoloft and Risperdal — they continue. But whatever the meds, I have to somehow deal with the intrusion factor. Maybe this is a social phobia issue? But I tried the social phob. NG before. Nobody would answer what I had to say. (Too phobic, I guess. <g ) Hope you-all answer. Thanks. bw PS The internet at work is down, so I’m going in late; I am typing this from the public library. (Which isn’t easy for me, with all the people here. Maybe I’m putting my nervous energy toward this message?) So you can see that either this issue is important to me, or I’m an NG addict or something …
Prescription Medication Knowledge Base » Weight Gain A Side Effect Of Zoloft » How does Buspar work?
Boy did this one thing you asked ring a bell.I am tired of hearing a doctor or professional tell me , I couldn’t have felt the affects of the medication because its too early.What a bunch of bull.Too often the real truth is professionals and psychiaitry is practiced so unevenly its truly a sin!.Each time you ask someone else you get a different answer.I too have taken Buspar for a day and instantly felt more relaxed.But I don’t take it too often cause I believe its just a stronger version of valium.at least and at most too strong.You have to determine whats right for you.However incidentally I had a doctor tell me, to take it as needed , no need to take it for weeks.With prozac I didn’t need to take that stuff longer then a week (2 bloody noses) to know what I felt and didn’t need anyone to tell me what I felt was real or not real. what hogwash.Still glad buspar is around but still waiting for better science. Tell daughter to try exercise, stop smoking and eat healthy .
I do realize however that some meds do work after getting in blood stream , and some especially anti depressants and mood meds might take a few weeks.Every person is different but more importantly listen to your body , and incidentally Buspar is not one of the drugs that HAVE to be in your system for weeks.
My teenage daughter (17 years old) is taking Buspar for sever anxiety and panic disorder. I was wondering if anyone can help me here. She has just been on this medication for nearly 3 weeks now. Her inital does was 5mg morn 5mg afternoon and 10mg beditime. That was the first 2 weeks. She did show some signs of improvement but not nearly enough. Her dosage has now been increased to 7.5mg morn 7.5mg afternoon and 15mg bedtime. Question here is i understand that it takes weeks for it to take full effectivness, but seems when she feels anxiety now and takes the medication within mins she feels somewhat better. Is this possible, or does it have to reach its full limits before it works? Hope you can understand this question. Thanks in advance!
Hi Dad! BuSpar will *not* block panic attacks. The meds of choice for panic disorder are those that *do* block panic attacks. And these include the benzos (e.g. Xanax, Klonopin, etc) and the SSRIs (e.g. Prozac, Zoloft, Paxil, Celexa, etc.). Sounds like your daughter saw a GP instead of a psychiatrist (who she should see for med advice on panic disorder). Feeling better within minutes of taking a BuSpar pill is a *placebo* effect (i.e. you have "faith" it will help, and thus it does). Chip Before you buy.
My teenage daughter (17 years old) is taking Buspar for sever anxiety and panic disorder. I was wondering if anyone can help me here. She has just been on this medication for nearly 3 weeks now. Her inital does was 5mg morn 5mg afternoon and 10mg beditime. That was the first 2 weeks. She did show some signs of improvement but not nearly enough. Her dosage has now been increased to 7.5mg morn 7.5mg afternoon and 15mg bedtime. Question here is i understand that it takes weeks for it to take full effectivness, but seems when she feels anxiety now and takes the medication within mins she feels somewhat better. Is this possible, or does it have to reach its full limits before it works? Hope you can understand this question. Thanks in advance!
I sympathize, Neal, and oh, Thank You for answering one of my questions! I took the 3 others, for panic/anxiety… Prozac, zoloft, and paxil, and felt worse within a week. When I was prescribed Buspar, I had no high hopes, but I swear within an hour, I felt a heaviness, rather than extreme panic. An almost calmness, maybe sleepy, and it made me feel better immediately. I was given 7.5 mg, in am and again at pm for a week, then 15 mg am and pm, since then, about 2 months now. It hasnt helped completely, but feel a difference. I’m sorry I can’t answer your question, but sometimes, just having someone share an experience helps, a bit. I have been told by therapist that I may need an increase, but I haven’t felt comfortable about it yet. (also, i had been told before that there are no side effects from paxil, zoloft or prozac, and i KNOW that there are!) so go with what feels right, and what seems to be working- even a little bit at a time.
Hi, I was recently prescribed Buspar for genreral anxiety disorder and after researching it a bit, I find I’m very confused. I have both depression and GAD, but it’s the anxiety that’s bothering me most at the moment. (It’s hard sometimes to separate these things into categories, btw). My question is this (I’m a bit of a newbie poster but I’ve read a lot). Buspar and and SSRI’s appear to do different things. Anxiety is apparently caused by too much serotonin. According to the www.buspar.com home page (sponsored by Bristol/Myers/Squibb): "Your symptoms of persistent anxiety may be due to an imbalance of a chemical called "serotonin" in the brain. It is believed that an excess of serotonin may be one of the causes of persistent anxiety. Other anti-anxiety medications work on different chemicals in the brain. BuSpar works differently from other anti-anxiety medications – BuSpar works on the "serotonin system" in the brain to bring serotonin levels back to normal." But I thought depression was caused by not enough serotonin. If this is true, how can a person have both GAD and depression? (a common complaint, judging from a.s.d and a.s.p-a). The SSRI I took several years ago (zoloft) seemed to greatly allieviate both anxiety and depression and I thought the mechanism was by increasing the effectiveness of serotonin (by inhibiting reuptake and leaving it in the synapses longer). Effectively correcting a _deficiency_ of serotonin. I’m confused. Moreover, my pdoc (confirmed by postings here) says that Buspar is sometimes combined with an antidepressant (SSRI or other) to increase the effective relief — either of GAD, depression or both! They seem to be doing opposite things, wouldn’t they cancel each other out? I’m sure I’m confused because I’m oversimplifying things. A quick history – I’ve had depression and anxiety for as long as I can remember and the only medicinal success I’ve had was with Zoloft several years ago. Zoloft helped tremendously, it seemed to knock out the anxiety and lifted my depression. There were side effects (drowsiness, sexual dampening, some word finding trouble), but it worked. I went off it after I decided I was feeling good enough to give it a try. The depression and anxiety gradually returned. A year later I tried it again but it increased my anxiety so much (like drinking several pots of coffee!) that I was unable to tolerate it even at small doses and I gave up before it gave me any benefit. Right now I’ve been on Buspar for about a week (10mg/day – I’m sensitive to drugs). I’m not feeling any better, in fact the main effects seem to be dizziness, drowsiness, headache and poor concentration, even worse than before. And improving concentration is one of the things Buspar is supposed to help! And as evidenced by this post, my chronic worry doesn’t seem to be getting any better either :-) I seem to be getting a bit of the bruxism/jaw clenching that I recall was a side effect of zoloft too. Can anyone out there, either fellow sufferer or pharmacist help me understand the mechanics of these drugs? Anyway, should I should I stick it out with Buspar for a while (it’s been one week) despite the side effects? How long until I know whether it’s doing anything for me? I do recall that I had similar side effects for a couple weeks with zoloft (even worse.. there was nausea too) before they started to subside and my depression/anxiety started to improve. This time around, I’m more skeptical (both from the posts here that say Buspar isn’t generally too effective and from my confusion about how this drug is supposed to work.) The doc says that we may try Buspar in combination with a small dose of an antidepressant if it seems to help at all. Again, this sounds confusing, but I’ve heard people have had some sucess with this. Thanks in advance -Grisha
(snip) But I thought depression was caused by not enough serotonin. If this is true, how can a person have both GAD and depression? (a common complaint, judging from a.s.d and a.s.p-a). The SSRI I took several years ago (zoloft) seemed to greatly allieviate both anxiety and depression and I thought the mechanism was by increasing the effectiveness of serotonin (by inhibiting reuptake and leaving it in the synapses longer). Effectively correcting a _deficiency_ of serotonin.
This is what I understood, too. I’m on Zoloft. for GAD. I’m confused. Moreover, my pdoc (confirmed by postings here) says that Buspar is sometimes combined with an antidepressant (SSRI or other) to increase the effective relief — either of GAD, depression or both! They seem to be doing opposite things, wouldn’t they cancel each other out? I’m sure I’m confused because I’m oversimplifying things. A quick history – I’ve had depression and anxiety for as long as I can remember and the only medicinal success I’ve had was with Zoloft several years ago. Zoloft helped tremendously, it seemed to knock out the anxiety and lifted my depression. There were side effects (drowsiness, sexual dampening, some word finding trouble), but it worked.
Ah, I’ve ben wondering if my "word finding trouble" (<—good description!) is related to the Zoloft. I guess maybe it is. I went off it after I decided I was feeling good enough to give it a try. The depression and anxiety gradually returned. A year later I tried it again but it increased my anxiety so much (like drinking several pots of coffee!) that I was unable to tolerate it even at small doses and I gave up before it gave me any benefit. Right now I’ve been on Buspar for about a week (10mg/day – I’m sensitive to drugs). I’m not feeling any better, in fact the main effects seem to be dizziness, drowsiness, headache and poor concentration, even worse than before.
(snip) This probably won’t help you much, but I’ve been reading some of the posts from people on Buspar and wondering just how effective this drug is. Four people I know were prescribed Buspar for anxiety/panic by their GP’s or OBGYN’s, and all 4 said it made them so much worse! They felt totally out of control on the Buspar, and did so much better on a different drug (Zoloft and maybe Prozac, IIRC). Luckily, my psych. put me on Z from the get-go and I haven’t had any problems. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Anyway, should I should I stick it out with Buspar for a while (it’s been one week) despite the side effects? How long until I know whether it’s doing anything for me? I do recall that I had similar side effects for a couple weeks with zoloft (even worse.. there was nausea too) before they started to subside and my depression/anxiety started to improve. This time around, I’m more skeptical (both from the posts here that say Buspar isn’t generally too effective and from my confusion about how this drug is supposed to work.) The doc says that we may try Buspar in combination with a small dose of an antidepressant if it seems to help at all. Again, this sounds confusing, but I’ve heard people have had some sucess with this. Thanks in advance -Grisha
Hi, I was recently prescribed Buspar for genreral anxiety disorder and after researching it a bit, I find I’m very confused. I have both depression and GAD, but it’s the anxiety that’s bothering me most at the moment. (It’s hard sometimes to separate these things into categories, btw). My question is this (I’m a bit of a newbie poster but I’ve read a lot). Buspar and and SSRI’s appear to do different things. Anxiety is apparently caused by too much serotonin. According to the www.buspar.com home page (sponsored by Bristol/Myers/Squibb):
Hi, Grisha, good to have you posting <some snipping Bristol/Myers/Squibb were, as one might expect, being a leetle selective with the facts there. As I understand it, no one really knows what causes anxiety disorders. Serotonin is one of the substances impilcated – but just one. It’s important to remember, for example, that a very fair proportion of people on this NG don’t use medications that affect serotonin at all and yet get very effective relief from what they do use – benzodiazepines. Arguably their problem concerns GABA, not serotonin. <more snipping But I thought depression was caused by not enough serotonin. If this is true, how can a person have both GAD and depression? (a common complaint, judging from a.s.d and a.s.p-a). The SSRI I took several years ago (zoloft) seemed to greatly allieviate both anxiety and depression and I thought the mechanism was by increasing the effectiveness of serotonin (by inhibiting reuptake and leaving it in the synapses longer). Effectively correcting a _deficiency_ of serotonin.
Exactly right, as I understand it, so possibly a clue why Buspar isn’t widely regarded as an effective medication by the majority of people who’ve posted here? I’m confused. Moreover, my pdoc (confirmed by postings here) says that Buspar is sometimes combined with an antidepressant (SSRI or other) to increase the effective relief — either of GAD, depression or both! They seem to be doing opposite things, wouldn’t they cancel each other out? I’m sure I’m confused because I’m oversimplifying things.
I simply don’t know the answer to this but perhaps one of the wetstuff techies can help us? <yet more snipping Anyway, should I should I stick it out with Buspar for a while (it’s been one week) despite the side effects? How long until I know whether it’s doing anything for me? I do recall that I had similar side effects for a couple weeks with zoloft (even worse.. there was nausea too) before they started to subside and my depression/anxiety started to improve. This time around, I’m more skeptical (both from the posts here that say Buspar isn’t generally too effective and from my confusion about how this drug is supposed to work.) The doc says that we may try Buspar in combination with a small dose of an antidepressant if it seems to help at all. Again, this sounds confusing, but I’ve heard people have had some sucess with this.
Personally, I won’t tolerate side effects lasting more than about ten-14 days, but that’s just me. I worry about Buspar – not because I think it does people harm, but because I sense it is being prescribed as an alternative to benzodiazepines by doctors who have swallowed the myths and propaganda about "addiction" concerning the latter. It’s fair enough to try it, but to persist against the odds seems like bad practice to me. Have you tried the combination of an AD and a benzo? Judging by the posts here, that seems to be the most useful combination for those with coincident depression and I wonder if it might be worth discussing it with your doctor? Just a thought — Gary Cooper
<snipped some good stuff : I just started takign BuSpar as an enhancer to the Effexor that I’m already taking. In addition, I take klonopin. The idea is to get me up to 15 mg/day. I have lots of problems with anxiety, but my main hope for BuSpar is that it will pick up the Effexor…. No longer searching for beauty or love, just some kind of life with the edges taken off. –Jarvis Cocker
Bristol/Myers/Squibb were, as one might expect, being a leetle selective with the facts there. As I understand it, no one really knows what causes anxiety disorders. Serotonin is one of the substances impilcated – but just one. It’s important to remember, for example, that a very fair proportion of people on this NG don’t use medications that affect serotonin at all and yet get very effective relief from what they do use – benzodiazepines. Arguably their problem concerns GABA, not serotonin.
I’ve heard this theory several times before. I take it that it is possible that people have a problem with levels of serotonin, and this is causing the anxiety, but the increase in the strength of binding of GABA (which is what the benzos do) has an effect that offsets the effects of the serotonin problem. This might explain why people get relief from anxiety from both serotoninigic and GABA-related treatments. (Or, maybe the reverse is the case, for that matter.) People like, e.g. Peter Kramer (and many other people I’ve run across in print) move from the fact that drug x increases y and drug x cures depression that depression is caused by (in part, at least) too little y. I just think that this is a bit quick. It’s certainly one potential explanation, and perhaps the best one. But it’s not the only one. Again, it might be that the depression is caused by some other factor, z, whose effects are overridden by the effects of the increase in y. (Gary–not directed at you personally, and please don’t take me as being pedantic; I don’t mean to be. Just a question I have about an inference that I see made all over.) <more snipping But I thought depression was caused by not enough serotonin. If this is true, how can a person have both GAD and depression? (a common complaint, judging from a.s.d and a.s.p-a). The SSRI I took several years ago (zoloft) seemed to greatly allieviate both anxiety and depression and I thought the mechanism was by increasing the effectiveness of serotonin (by inhibiting reuptake and leaving it in the synapses longer). Effectively correcting a _deficiency_ of serotonin.
Though BuSpar does work for some (just not many, it seems). I think that this just shows that we’re a long way from understanding how these drugs cure depression and anxiety. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m confused. Moreover, my pdoc (confirmed by postings here) says that Buspar is sometimes combined with an antidepressant (SSRI or other) to increase the effective relief — either of GAD, depression or both! They seem to be doing opposite things, wouldn’t they cancel each other out? I’m sure I’m confused because I’m oversimplifying things. I simply don’t know the answer to this but perhaps one of the wetstuff techies can help us? Anyway, should I should I stick it out with Buspar for a while (it’s been one week) despite the side effects? How long until I know whether it’s doing anything for me? I do recall that I had similar side effects for a couple weeks with zoloft (even worse.. there was nausea too) before they started to subside and my depression/anxiety started to improve. This time around, I’m more skeptical (both from the posts here that say Buspar isn’t generally too effective and from my confusion about how this drug is supposed to work.) The doc says that we may try Buspar in combination with a small dose of an antidepressant if it seems to help at all. Again, this sounds confusing, but I’ve heard people have had some sucess with this.
It depends on how bad the side effects are–BuSpar, like SSRIs, takes 2-4 weeks to really start working (if it does at all). snip I worry about Buspar – not because I think it does people harm, but because I sense it is being prescribed as an alternative to benzodiazepines by doctors who have swallowed the myths and propaganda about "addiction" concerning the latter. It’s fair enough to try it, but to persist against the odds seems like bad practice to me.
I totally agree. Have you tried the combination of an AD and a benzo? Judging by the posts here, that seems to be the most useful combination for those with coincident depression and I wonder if it might be worth discussing it with your doctor? Just a thought
And, IMHO, the right thought. I second the motion. Matt
<some snipping for space People like, e.g. Peter Kramer (and many other people I’ve run across in print) move from the fact that drug x increases y and drug x cures depression that depression is caused by (in part, at least) too little y. I just think that this is a bit quick. It’s certainly one potential explanation, and perhaps the best one. But it’s not the only one. Again, it might be that the depression is caused by some other factor, z, whose effects are overridden by the effects of the increase in y. (Gary–not directed at you personally, and please don’t take me as being pedantic; I don’t mean to be. Just a question I have about an inference that I see made all over.)
<rest snipped Oh, I certainly don’t Matt. But, personally, I long ago realised that I hadn’t the dedication to go into the minuteae of the neuro-chemistry of this – particularly as it’s such a conjectural field anyway. To do so to any level that might satisfy me intellectually, I’d effectively have to take a DIY med. degree and even then I’d be banging heads with the experts, who seem hopelessly confused themselves – blown around the map of the brain like pre-chronometer navigators 
I almost hate admitting this to a philosopher but I trust my intuition and that tells me that Clarke’s Law applies here. Too many eminent pshrinks are talking about serotonin for that to possibly be the answer Maybe it is? Maybe it’s CCK? Maybe it’s dopamine? None of us knows so, for now, all we can be is engineers, rather than theoretical physicists. Sometimes I’m not sure that’s a bad thing, either — Gary Cooper
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <some snipping for space People like, e.g. Peter Kramer (and many other people I’ve run across in print) move from the fact that drug x increases y and drug x cures depression that depression is caused by (in part, at least) too little y. I just think that this is a bit quick. It’s certainly one potential explanation, and perhaps the best one. But it’s not the only one. Again, it might be that the depression is caused by some other factor, z, whose effects are overridden by the effects of the increase in y. (Gary–not directed at you personally, and please don’t take me as being pedantic; I don’t mean to be. Just a question I have about an inference that I see made all over.) <rest snipped
snip I almost hate admitting this to a philosopher but I trust my intuition and that tells me that Clarke’s Law applies here. Too many eminent pshrinks are talking about serotonin for that to possibly be the answer
Maybe it is? Maybe it’s CCK? Maybe it’s dopamine? None of us knows so, for now, all we can be is engineers, rather than theoretical physicists.
Yah, I’m certainly not claiming to know either –just looking at an inference Matt
[...] But I thought depression was caused by not enough serotonin. If this is true, how can a person have both GAD and depression?
There’s no conflict there. Psychiatric diagnoses are made on the basis of symptoms not pathophysiology. It’s not like having both diabetes and hypoglycemia. (a common complaint, judging from a.s.d and a.s.p-a). The SSRI I took several years ago (zoloft) seemed to greatly allieviate both anxiety and depression and I thought the mechanism was by increasing the effectiveness of serotonin (by inhibiting reuptake and leaving it in the synapses longer). Effectively correcting a _deficiency_ of serotonin. I’m confused. Moreover, my pdoc (confirmed by postings here) says that Buspar is sometimes combined with an antidepressant (SSRI or other) to increase the effective relief — either of GAD, depression or both! They seem to be doing opposite things, wouldn’t they cancel each other out? I’m sure I’m confused because I’m oversimplifying things.
[...] _You’re_ confused? Think of the people doing the research. They’re making careers out of their confusion. If anything, you’re confused because you’re approaching the matter as though the antidepressant mechanism of SSRI’s were a settled question. (Come to think of it, this probably screws up the researchers’ heads too). Yes, SSRI’s increase synaptic serotonin — that’s known. What isn’t fully understood is what happens next and how it improves mood. Is it 5HT-receptor upregulation? How significant are the well-known ‘downstream’ effects on dopamine and norepinephrine? Three neurotransmitter systems have been implicated in the doings of buspirone. It is a high-affinity 5HT1A partial agonist. Already a pain in the ass, since it’s not always clear whether a partial agonist acts primarily as an agonist or an antagonist. It may be one or the other depending on many factors. So already you wonder: is the anxiolytic effect based on agonist or antagonist activity? Those who attribute the anxiolytic effect to 5HT activity seem to think of it as an agonist (shutting off of 5HT release), but if it is the other way ’round, antagonizing 5HT1A and preventing natural 5HT shutdown, is anything any less (or more) clear? Next, it appears to be a a2-adrenergic antagonist. Some researchers attribute the anxiolytic effect to this. But this also seems odd in light of the fact that the a2-adrenergic _agonist_ clonidine is famed for its ability to reduce anxiety, particularly in drug withdrawal. And a2-adrenergic antagonists promote norepinephrine production. A sympathomimetic anxiolytic? And then there’s its D2-antagonist activity. This has been dismissed as clinically insignificant, though it does appear prominently in the early research. It’s at least more consistent with what one would expect from a non-GABAergic anxiolytic. But it’s probably not the answer. There is no reason not to be confused. In fact, if you’re not confused, you are either delusional or a marketing executive at Bristol-Myers Squibb.
How does BuSpar work? It doesn’t. BuSpar has no effect at all.
… Exactly right, as I understand it, so possibly a clue why Buspar isn’t widely regarded as an effective medication by the majority of people who’ve posted here?
I have what might be a simpler clue…the doses commonly used (15-30mg/day) may not be high enough! I think that if you can tolerate it (start low, go slow), it might be worthwhile to try going up to 90mg/day – especially if you have GAD and depression and no history of panic attacks (BuSpar really isn’t for panic). 30-90mg/day is the dose range for major depression (including melancholic depression). (The original trials for schizophrenia used doses up to, get this, 2400mg/day, with an average dose around 1500mg/day.) -elizabeth
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I was recently prescribed Buspar for genreral anxiety disorder and after researching it a bit, I find I’m very confused. I have both depression and GAD, but it’s the anxiety that’s bothering me most at the moment. (It’s hard sometimes to separate these things into categories, btw). My question is this (I’m a bit of a newbie poster but I’ve read a lot). Buspar and and SSRI’s appear to do different things. Anxiety is apparently caused by too much serotonin. According to the www.buspar.com home page (sponsored by Bristol/Myers/Squibb): "Your symptoms of persistent anxiety may be due to an imbalance of a chemical called "serotonin" in the brain. It is believed that an excess of serotonin may be one of the causes of persistent anxiety. Other anti-anxiety medications work on different chemicals in the brain. BuSpar works differently from other anti-anxiety medications – BuSpar works on the "serotonin system" in the brain to bring serotonin levels back to normal." But I thought depression was caused by not enough serotonin. If this is true, how can a person have both GAD and depression? (a common complaint, judging from a.s.d and a.s.p-a). The SSRI I took several years ago (zoloft) seemed to greatly allieviate both anxiety and depression and I thought the mechanism was by increasing the effectiveness of serotonin (by inhibiting reuptake and leaving it in the synapses longer). Effectively correcting a _deficiency_ of serotonin. I’m confused. Moreover, my pdoc (confirmed by postings here) says that Buspar is sometimes combined with an antidepressant (SSRI or other) to increase the effective relief — either of GAD, depression or both! They seem to be doing opposite things, wouldn’t they cancel each other out? I’m sure I’m confused because I’m oversimplifying things. A quick history – I’ve had depression and anxiety for as long as I can remember and the only medicinal success I’ve had was with Zoloft several years ago. Zoloft helped tremendously, it seemed to knock out the anxiety and lifted my depression. There were side effects (drowsiness, sexual dampening, some word finding trouble), but it worked. I went off it after I decided I was feeling good enough to give it a try. The depression and anxiety gradually returned. A year later I tried it again but it increased my anxiety so much (like drinking several pots of coffee!) that I was unable to tolerate it even at small doses and I gave up before it gave me any benefit. Right now I’ve been on Buspar for about a week (10mg/day – I’m sensitive to drugs). I’m not feeling any better, in fact the main effects seem to be dizziness, drowsiness, headache and poor concentration, even worse than before. And improving concentration is one of the things Buspar is supposed to help! And as evidenced by this post, my chronic worry doesn’t seem to be getting any better either :-) I seem to be getting a bit of the bruxism/jaw clenching that I recall was a side effect of zoloft too. Can anyone out there, either fellow sufferer or pharmacist help me understand the mechanics of these drugs? Anyway, should I should I stick it out with Buspar for a while (it’s been one week) despite the side effects? How long until I know whether it’s doing anything for me? I do recall that I had similar side effects for a couple weeks with zoloft (even worse.. there was nausea too) before they started to subside and my depression/anxiety started to improve. This time around, I’m more skeptical (both from the posts here that say Buspar isn’t generally too effective and from my confusion about how this drug is supposed to work.) The doc says that we may try Buspar in combination with a small dose of an antidepressant if it seems to help at all. Again, this sounds confusing, but I’ve heard people have had some sucess with this. Thanks in advance -Grisha
Grisha — That’s a long message! I’ve posted on alt.support.anxiety.panic how SSRIs work to the best of my knowledge (someone already corrected me on a mistake I made). But I’m not sure how Buspar works. I don’t the the docs really know either. Someone read it to me in a counseling book, and the authors weren’t too sure either. my advice: If the shoe fits, wear it. If it don’t, throw it out. — Geoff
How does BuSpar work? It doesn’t. BuSpar has no effect at all.
Not exactly true. Current thought is that BuSpar is ineffective for panic, although it may be better for GAD. My doc refuses to prescribe it for panic. However, I have recently spoken to a top anxiety specialist who uses it as a second-line med, and has had some positive results with panic disorder patients. Not all, but some. He admits he has been too lazy to write this up and get it into the literature So, while there are many meds that are more effective than BuSpar for panic, it is an option for those who have problems with other meds. YMMV hugely. Hirsch
My pdoc seems to be down on benzos, he called them tranquilizers and seemed to regard them as masking rather than dealing with the problem. He also said they’re addictive and sedating like alcohol (though this Buspar is having a sedating/groggy inducing effect) This seems to be a common story. So I doubt I’ll have luck with him giving me the AD/benzo combination that you’ve recommended. Shopping for another doctor seems just beyond me at this point. Obviously, I should probably be patient and see if the Buspar does anything for me besides side effects. But if nothing (as seems likely from the consensus here) then what? Find an AD I can tolerate, perhaps and see if I can suggest he prescribe a benzo?
If the BuSpar doesn’t work, I’d be firm with him. It’s your body, after all. Benzos are called "minor tranquilizers," though the connotations of that word probably are such that tehy shouldn’t be called that. As to their addictiveness–this amounts to the fact that you need to taper off slowly if you’re going to stop taking them if you’ve taken them for a while. They’re seldom abused by patients, and they almost never are such that you develop a tolerance to their anti-anxiety properties. Plus, side effect-wise, they’re good drugs. Most of the side effects go away after a few weeks (the grogginess, sleepiness, etc.) for most people. Then the anti-anxiety properties remain. You also could go to your gp and talk to her about your situation. Maybe she’ll be more rational about benzos. Good luck, Matt
[...] But I thought depression was caused by not enough serotonin. If this is true, how can a person have both GAD and depression? There’s no conflict there. Psychiatric diagnoses are made on the basis of symptoms not pathophysiology. It’s not like having both diabetes and hypoglycemia.
Thanks everyone for all the information. You’re all great! I’m glad to know I’m not the only one confused here (I think I’m glad). The mechanism of buspar must be similar in some ways to zoloft, because my side effect profile is similar. I’m getting jaw clenching and increased tension in my neck and shoulders (where I carry my stress anyway) (is this norepinephrine?) similar to when I was starting on zoloft. I’ve got a constant headache (listed as a common side effect) and am sweating like a pig. Drowsy, dizzy no concentration, still anxious as ever. No actual _beneficial_ effects yet (after one week) it seems. It’s very frustrating to say the least because I’m told to be patient and wait for 2-4 weeks to notice anything. Just my luck I’ll get the sexual side effects too (not that it matters at the moment . Some people have no side effects whatsoever to this drug (or to many of the others), so obviously this neurochemistry thing is extremely complex. I’ve never been on a benzo, so I have no idea what it would feel like to get immediate relief to this chronic worry, tension and anxiety. I don’t have true Panic Attacks, I don’t think, where I’m paralyzed with panic and have chest pains and everything, but I do hyperventilate and get the tingly face and hands feeling, particularly in traffic, but sometimes for no apparent reason, it just seems like a slightly more intense version of the anxiety I feel all the time. It’s pretty clearly GAD with depression, now, I just need to find something that will take care of it. My pdoc seems to be down on benzos, he called them tranquilizers and seemed to regard them as masking rather than dealing with the problem. He also said they’re addictive and sedating like alcohol (though this Buspar is having a sedating/groggy inducing effect) This seems to be a common story. So I doubt I’ll have luck with him giving me the AD/benzo combination that you’ve recommended. Shopping for another doctor seems just beyond me at this point. Obviously, I should probably be patient and see if the Buspar does anything for me besides side effects. But if nothing (as seems likely from the consensus here) then what? Find an AD I can tolerate, perhaps and see if I can suggest he prescribe a benzo? Thanks again everyone for your continued support and explanations (or approximations) of the chemistry behind these drugs. -Grisha
Yeh Gary, I asked my Doc here in Australia about Buspar long ago – he laughed and said: "I don’t even prescribe that crap for *minor* anxiety, it’s basically useless for panic disorder. Benzodiazapine’s are safer and *much* more effective" He then wrote me a script for Xanax – and asked *me* to tell him how much worked – then asked that I ring his surgery for repeats as needed….
Blimey, Mike – that’s the second good reason I’ve seen for emigration to Oz in the past few weeks! I wish we had a few doctors like that, over here. — Gary Cooper
<much interesting commentary snipped There is no reason not to be confused. In fact, if you’re not confused, you are either delusional or a marketing executive at Bristol-Myers Squibb.
And ain’t *that* the truth! — Gary Cooper
<Good Stuff Snipped Exactly right, as I understand it, so possibly a clue why Buspar isn’t widely regarded as an effective medication by the majority of people who’ve posted here?
<More Good Stuff Snipped Yeh Gary, I asked my Doc here in Australia about Buspar long ago – he laughed and said: "I don’t even prescribe that crap for *minor* anxiety, it’s basically useless for panic disorder. Benzodiazapine’s are safer and *much* more effective" He then wrote me a script for Xanax – and asked *me* to tell him how much worked – then asked that I ring his surgery for repeats as needed…. Cheers, Mike from OZ
Prescription Medication Knowledge Base » Eessential Tremor Effexor » Survey Results!!!
Add another one to that number–numbers are my game! I have a degree in mathematics, and have made a living in the past both teaching math, and working as both a technical typist and an administrative assistant in the research area. I do all the gathering and tabulating numbers for the taxes, etc. for our repair service business that my husband and I run! And I have had migraines for about 40 years now! Barbara — Barbara Lemmond – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey, maybe that’s something that goes with migraines too! I enjoy tabulating and typing too. <g Vicky , Must be the "type A" migraine personality in us coming out! LOL Judy
Vicky , Must be the "type A" migraine personality in us coming out! LOL
<Helen A+!!! </Helen butting (went to http://www.peterzale.com and fell in love…) (oh, that’s a different Helen, btw…) — Bryce Utting http://www.cs.waikato.ac.nz/~butting the cross before me, the world behind me no turning back
Ingrid… I don’t know if you’re still taking results of the survey, but just in case….I had to add my two cents… Low BP (90/60) Cold Extremities Low Temperature (c. 97.4 degrees) Insomnia Fatigue Sinus problems Acute senses (hearing, smell, touch) Seziures Benign brain cyst Bruxism Mitral Valve Prolapse PTSD Good idea taking this survey! Thanks for taking the time to tabulate eveything…. Raven Cultural Advisor ~ Ceili Convention Committee The Once and Future Con ~ 12-14 June 1998 http://www.mindwell.com/~anubis/oafc "From this life to the next…."
Hey, maybe that’s something that goes with migraines too! I enjoy tabulating and typing too. <g
Vicky , Must be the "type A" migraine personality in us coming out! LOL Judy
See…..now *there* is a survey that Mario and I could take part in!!!! Bob
Gee, that sounds even more fun!!
Vicky , Must be the "type A" migraine personality in us coming out! LOL
<Helen A+!!! </Helen butting (went to http://www.peter-zale.com and fell in love…) — Bryce Utting http://www.cs.waikato.ac.nz/~butting the cross before me, the world behind me no turning back
PS, I’m glad you thought this was fun…I now know I have a kindred soul here (and one whose hubby has the same sick sense of humor mine does! LOL!)
Hey, maybe that’s something that goes with migraines too! I enjoy tabulating and typing too. <g — Vicky
JLR) writes: the same sick sense of humor mine does! LOL!)
See…..now *there* is a survey that Mario and I could take part in!!!! Bob Never Blame the Rainbows for the Rain [J.H.& R.T.]
PTSD 1 What is that?
PTSD=Post Traumatic Stress Disorder
Ingrid, Nice job on this!. I’m curious about a couple of things… I’m guessing that the female:male ratio on this is pretty high…do you happen to know? Also, am wondering if you just looked at those with the low BP, are there other prevalant symptoms going along with that… i.e., how many with low BP have cold extremities, low temperature, etc? Again, thanks for doing this! Judy PS, I’m glad you thought this was fun…I now know I have a kindred soul here (and one whose hubby has the same sick sense of humor mine does! LOL!)
PTSD 1 What is that?
I will take a stab at it and say Post Traumatic Stress Disorder? Ingrid — — My house is maintained for the comfort of my dogs, if you don’t like it – leave. —
– Charity bot food: http://www.e-scrub.com/cgi-bin/wpoison/wpoison.cgi Remove NoJunkMail and replace with slepcevc
Summary: 50 total responses Low BP 36 2 high BP Gastric Problems 18 Did not separate out for IBS Cold Extremities 17 Low Temperature 13 2 high Insomnia 12 Fast Pulse 12 Allergies 10 Fatigue 10 Depression 9 Raynauds Syndrome 6 Sinus Problems 6 Acute Senses 5 I lumped smell, hearing and sensitive eye Endometriosis 5 Asthma 4 Disc Problems 3 Geographic Tongue 3 Anxiety 2 Fibromyalgia 2 Motion Sickness 2 Osteoarthritis 2 Seizures 2 Vasomotor Rhinitis 2 ARAD/S 1 My almost son-in-law has that! Benign Essential Tremor 1 Blood Clots 1 Bruxism 1 Gallbladder 1 Low Thyroid 1 Mitral Valve Prolapse 1 PTSD 1 What is that? Rheumatic Fever 1 Shingles 1 Urinary Tract problems 1 From reading other threads I was under the impression that more people had seizures. Unfortunately, I could realistically only tabulate those under the "Common" thread. I left out symptoms occurring during migraines, since we were looking for "other" common problems. I still find the incidence of low BP amazing and was especially interested that a German doctor felt it should be treated. When I was home in Germany over Christmas my Mom’s doctor asked me what I was being treated with for the low BP. She was quite shocked that the doctors in the US don’t seem to think it important. This was fun! Ingrid — — My house is maintained for the comfort of my dogs, if you don’t like it – leave. —
Prescription Medication Knowledge Base » Eessential Tremor Effexor » Cervical Dystonia
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Howdy group. I was just diagnosed with cervical dystonia last week. While I have had symptoms for YEARS all of the doctors I went to either could find nothing wrong or told me to "relax"! I am so happy to find this news group on here. A big relief. I did find a fantastic Neurologist who believed me and understood exactly what I was talking about. We are currently trying a variety of oral medications to see if we can control it. Of course as all of you know, with these types of medications come side-effects. After being on one medication for 2 days, my husband said, "you don’t need to be on that, it will make you crazy." I don’t think my husband is understanding what dystonia is all about quite yet. I am looking for some encouragement and am hoping to find it here. Thanks for letting me get a little bit off my mind…I hope I can be of help to other people here as well. Connie
Welcome to A.S.D., Connie!!! We are so happy to meet you! I am hoping that some of our ‘dystonia spouses’ will respond to your husband and his concerns. We have found that significant others in our lifes often have a hard time watching us go through this process. Connie, please know that all of us here at the n/g are more than eager to lend a listening ear, commiserate, and even laugh occasionally!!! Please keep in touch!! TTYS, MB
Howdy group. I was just diagnosed with cervical dystonia last week. While I have had symptoms for YEARS all of the doctors I went to either could find nothing wrong or told me to "relax"! I am so happy to find this news group on here. A big relief. I did find a fantastic Neurologist who believed me and understood exactly what I was talking about. We are currently trying a variety of oral medications to see if we can control it. Of course as all of you know, with these types of medications come side-effects. After being on one medication for 2 days, my husband said, "you don’t need to be on that, it will make you crazy." I don’t think my husband is understanding what dystonia is all about quite yet. I am looking for some encouragement and am hoping to find it here. Thanks for letting me get a little bit off my mind…I hope I can be of help to other people here as well. Connie
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Howdy group. I was just diagnosed with cervical dystonia last week. While I have had symptoms for YEARS all of the doctors I went to either could find nothing wrong or told me to "relax"! I am so happy to find this news group on here. A big relief. I did find a fantastic Neurologist who believed me and understood exactly what I was talking about. We are currently trying a variety of oral medications to see if we can control it. Of course as all of you know, with these types of medications come side-effects. After being on one medication for 2 days, my husband said, "you don’t need to be on that, it will make you crazy." I don’t think my husband is understanding what dystonia is all about quite yet. I am looking for some encouragement and am hoping to find it here. Thanks for letting me get a little bit off my mind…I hope I can be of help to other people here as well. Connie Welcome to A.S.D., Connie!!! We are so happy to meet you! I am hoping that some of our ‘dystonia spouses’ will respond to your husband and his concerns. We have found that significant others in our lifes often have a hard time watching us go through this process. Connie, please know that all of us here at the n/g are more than eager to lend a listening ear, commiserate, and even laugh occasionally!!! Please keep in touch!! TTYS, MB
Ok MB…I have been extremely busy the last month, but i have been lurking:) so seeing this post I had to reply..Lacking the time to form a newsgroup for us sig/others & spouses i have formed an email chain. anyone who wishs to share in our letters please feel free to email me. It is indeed very hard to not be able to "fix " my wife and make everything ok. We go through life one day at a time and I try to stay with what I am powerful over and accept what I am powerless to change. Not my words…they come from a 12 step group. but it helps me to cope.it also helps to keep up with the newsgroup and share with you all when I can. It also makes me feel good to see that this group has helped my wife Aimee where I have not been able to, and I thank you all for that…:) John F
Howdy group. I was just diagnosed with cervical dystonia last week. While I have had symptoms for YEARS all of the doctors I went to either could find nothing wrong or told me to "relax"!
Hey I too have been there. After seeing approx. 6 specialists in the varies fields of medicine, I was finally diagonised with ST. I am so happy to find this news group on here. A big relief. I did find a fantastic Neurologist who believed me and understood exactly what I was talking about. We are currently trying a variety of oral medications to see if we can control it. Of course as all of you know, with these types of medications come side-effects. After being on one medication for 2 days, my husband said, "you don’t need to be on that, it will make you crazy."
I remember those days indeed. Taking all kinds of oral medications for approx a 4-6 month timespan to see if any worked, unfortunately in my case none did, but that isn’t too say that you will not have positive results. We share a strange disorder indeed. I don’t think my husband is understanding what dystonia is all about quite yet. I am looking for some encouragement and am hoping to find it here.
My wife/family/friends also did not, in fact I didn’t, but we all know alot more now : ) Thanks for letting me get a little bit off my mind…I hope I can be of help to other people here as well.
I am sure you will and am happy too meet you. There is an chatline where many people with Dystonia meet every Wednesday night at 9:00pm EST in the channel named #sd. The chatline program is mIRC. If you don’t have it but would like to know where/how to get it, just say so and all the information will be sent too you here. God bless Mark
The basal ganglia may be like a computer which, if you have dystonia, malfunctions.
Are you trying to tell us that not only do we have dystonia but our brains are running Windows ‘95?! <g (err… nobody from MicroSoft is on here, are they…?) Cathy. — (—-) (—-) " " http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~collisoc " "
Howdy group. I was just diagnosed with cervical dystonia last week. While I have had symptoms for YEARS all of the doctors I went to either could find nothing wrong or told me to "relax"! I am so happy to find this news group on here. A big relief. I did find a fantastic Neurologist who believed me and understood exactly what I was talking about. We are currently trying a variety of oral medications to see if we can control it. Of course as all of you know, with these types of medications come side-effects. on’t think my husband is understanding what dystonia is all about quite yet.
Dystonia is a disorder of movement. It is frequently misunderstood by the public and misdiagnosed by the medical profession because of its complexity. It is a syndrome of sustained muscle contractions frequently causing twisting and repetitive movements or abnormal postures. The cause of these abnormal postures is thought to be problems in the area of the brain known as the basal ganglia. Messages to initiate the correct muscle contractions required for specific movements are thought to original in this region. The basal ganglia may be like a computer which, if you have dystonia, malfunctions. There are no laboratory tests which can confirm the diagnosis of dystonia. The diagnosis is made on the basis of clinical neurological history and examination. Thanks for letting me get a little bit off my mind…I hope I can be of help to other people here as well. Connie
Gene
A small correction using the computer industry lingo is that our "Operating System" has a small bug that causes intermittent failures of the computer itself. Consequently, a number of highly paid researchers (Systems Analysts) are attempting to debug the system but so far have not been successful. We may need to hire more competent personnel. Larry Barlar
Are you trying to tell us that not only do we have dystonia but our brains are running Windows ‘95?! <g That’s a 32 bit application MB
Hey Larry! You catch that?! The gal’s getting smart on us! <g Cathy. — (—-) (—-) " " http://www.cuug.ab.ca:8001/~collisoc " "
I am so happy to find this place on the internet–I was diagnosed with dystonia in the upper extremities and essential tremor of the head 2 years ago. It has been a struggle to finally get a diagnosis and even more of a struggle to find out more about it. Thank goodness I stumbled upon this newsgroup. I would like to exchange e-mail with anyone who feels inspired to write and share their experiences with me — I have felt so all alone through all of this. Barbara Zalesny
The basal ganglia may be like a computer which, if you have dystonia, malfunctions. Are you trying to tell us that not only do we have dystonia but our brains are running Windows ‘95?! <g (err… nobody from MicroSoft is on here, are they…?) Cathy.
That’s a 32 bit application MB
Prescription Medication Knowledge Base » Discontinue Use Of Zoloft In Lewy Body Caus » Poisonous (?) plants
The following link is with a collection of links about poisonous plants: http://www.ScienceOxygen.com/botany95.html It does not provide any answer directly. But you might start from there to check the associated information.
Hi All, I have been paging through the various seed catalogs and have seen a wide variety of flowers I’d love to grow. I have been disappointed in many cases when I saw that Thompson & Morgan listed them as "poisonous".
Don’t be disappointed, it’s a fact that many plants are poisonous, and T&M are simply helping remind the reader of the fact. Two or three seeds of Ricinus can kill a child if eaten, and Aconitum plant fluids are very deadly, as may be the seeds as well. On the other hand, it would take eating a lot of Datura to kill anybody. Most of the buttercup family are fairly poisonous (Aconites, Ranunculus, Trollius, etc.). There are so many plants that are poisonous, though fewer are quickly fatal at small dosages, that it is not really feasible to eliminate them from one’s garden. I would avoid planting Castor beans and Aconites around children’s playgrounds, though, especially, and perhaps some other plants. It is generally wise to teach all children never to put any plants in their mouths. When I was a kid I remember sucking on honeysuckles and stuff we called ’sourgrass’ and lots of other things, with no ill effects. But kids may experiment beyond what local lore has as ‘edible’. Sucking the juice out of the friendly looking Lily of the Valley can be deadly.
I have been paging through the various seed catalogs and have seen a wide variety of flowers I’d love to grow. I have been disappointed in many cases when I saw that Thompson & Morgan listed them as "poisonous". This is the case for datura, sweet peas, four o’ clocks, many varieties of nicotiana and others. Other catalogs (Burpees, Select Seeds, WFF) do not give a similar warning for many of the flowers. I’m not a toxicologist and have no way of knowing how "poisonous" these plants are. Can anyone shed some light on this subject?
Steve, When a plant is labeled as poisonous, the level of toxicity may not be known. The range could be anything from deadly to just causing a mild rash. The toxicity of the plant should be considered in two major areas. The first deals with children and animals. If you have children, they may come in contact, or even ingest, the plants in your garden. The same is true for pets or farm animals. The presence of poisonous plants needs to be considered. The second area of concern deals with the gardener’s safety. Direct contact with the plants may cause negative effects. Taking precautions like long sleeves and gloves may be all it takes. The warning of being poisonous in the catalog may be just a flag for you to be careful. If toxicity is a concern before you buy, check out exactly what level of poisoning your dealing with on the plants and flowers you are considering. For a general guide to toxicity of plants, check out "Take Care With Plants" at – http://www.ucdmc.ucdavis.edu/poison_control/plants.html This is part of the internet edition The Poison Center Answer Book prepared by the University of California, Davis, Medical Center (UCDMC) Regional Poison Control Center. Hope this helps. Good luck with your garden. Marc
Hi All, I have been paging through the various seed catalogs and have seen a wide variety of flowers I’d love to grow. I have been disappointed in many cases when I saw that Thompson & Morgan listed them as "poisonous". This is the case for datura, sweet peas, four o’ clocks, many varieties of nicotiana and others. Other catalogs (Burpees, Select Seeds, WFF) do not give a similar warning for many of the flowers. I’m not a toxicologist and have no way of knowing how "poisonous" these plants are. Can anyone shed some light on this subject? Steve Cook Macungie, PA USDA
Many of the plants referred to as ‘poisonous’ are not very toxic. Some, like holly or mistletoe, will cause a mild stomach ache or the like. Those plants that are very toxic should be considered carefully. It is confusing when many varieties of plants are categorized as being toxic or poisonous when most of them aren’t really poisonous enough to be of any consequence. If you have any doubt, ask a nurseryman in your area for advice. For reference some common plants which are highly toxic are as follows: Dieffenbachia Oleander Rhubarb (green parts of leaves) Digitalis (foxgloves) some cacti most Solanum sp. Datura (angel’s trumpets) You should also consider that many plants with milky sap are also very toxic, as are the pits of many fruits (cyanide). Even the rinds of some fruits like passion fruit have been found to be toxic enough for consideration. Likewise, some plants often listed as poisonous, but not much so are as follows: Philodendron Grasses Ficus
Hi All, I have been paging through the various seed catalogs and have seen a wide variety of flowers I’d love to grow. I have been disappointed in many cases when I saw that Thompson & Morgan listed them as "poisonous". This is the case for datura, sweet peas, four o’ clocks, many varieties of nicotiana and others. Other catalogs (Burpees, Select Seeds, WFF) do not give a similar warning for many of the flowers. I’m not a toxicologist and have no way of knowing how "poisonous" these plants are. Can anyone shed some light on this subject?
Hi Steve, The warning of poisonous in your T&M catalogue is merely a courtesy, most catalogues don’t bother. Datura is a hallucinogenic (sp?), nicotanias contain nicotine and so on. (Although I’m curious about the sweet peas, I’ve never heard there was a problem with them) Don’t let the warning deter you from planting these plants. Most garden plants are only poisonous if they are eaten, not by handling. Even edible plants can be poisonous if not used correctly, for example, more that one tablespoon of fresh rosemary leaves can cause a toxic reaction in an adult human and rhubard *leaves* (not stalks) can cause internal bleeding, severe stomach cramps and poisoning. Some plants can kill, some can make you very sick, while others are perfectly safe. The only time you need to truly worry about this is when very young children will be in and around plantings. Children are very likely to put leaves and flowers into their mouths. Small children should never be left unattended in a garden where the possibility of poison exist. (Actually the period in that last sentence should probably fall after the word ‘garden’.) There are several books that refer to the toxicity of plants, unfortunately I don’t have any references for you, perhaps someone else will. The rule for anyone though is: never, *never*, NEVER eat from a plant, in the garden or the wild, unless you know exactly what it is and whether it is safe. But Steve, don’t let the poisonous label deter you from planting the flowers in your garden unless you have the above-mentioned small children. If you do, check out the edible flower thread that is currently going on. You can get some suggestions for ’safe’ plants there. Hope this helps Marianne — As soon as I have something important to say, I’ll put it here.
I have been paging through the various seed catalogs and have seen a wide variety of flowers I’d love to grow. I have been disappointed in many cases when I saw that Thompson & Morgan listed them as "poisonous". This is the case for datura, sweet peas, four o’ clocks, many varieties of nicotiana and others. Other catalogs (Burpees, Select Seeds, WFF) do not give a similar warning for many of the flowers. I’m not a toxicologist and have no way of knowing how "poisonous" these plants are. Can anyone shed some light on this subject?
The real question is whether it matters to you that the plants are poisonous. I guess the seed companies are just trying to protect themselves from dorks who try to sue them ("I added those Sweet Pea seeds to soup and they poisoned me – it’s your fault!"). There are few if any species which will harm you unless you actually eat the seeds or plant, and unless the plant actually looks attractive to eat, this is most unlikely (with the attractive berries of Deadly Nightshade – Atropa belladonna being an exception). So long as *you* aren’t going to eat the plant, and you are satisfied that young children won’t, then there’s little to worry about. I guess I didn’t answer your question of *how* poisonous they are! In the case of the deadly nightshade – very! I’d guess the Sweet Pea seeds are like many other dried pulses (peas/beans) that you can buy to eat – not good for you unless soaked and boiled. Nicotiana – they make cigarettes out of it. Datura – well discussed in recent threads, but a very attractive plant. I don’t know about Four o’clock – Mirabilis jalapa, except that I’ve seen the ‘poisonous’ notices on it too. — Clarke Brunt (CCB), Principal Software Engineer, Laser-Scan Ltd, Science Park, Milton Rd, CAMBRIDGE, CB4 4FY, England. Tel: (+44) (0)1223 420414; Fax: 420044
Hi All, I have been paging through the various seed catalogs and have seen a wide variety of flowers I’d love to grow. I have been disappointed in many cases when I saw that Thompson & Morgan listed them as "poisonous". This is the case for datura, sweet peas, four o’ clocks, many varieties of nicotiana and others. Other catalogs (Burpees, Select Seeds, WFF) do not give a similar warning for many of the flowers. I’m not a toxicologist and have no way of knowing how "poisonous" these plants are. Can anyone shed some light on this subject? Steve Cook Macungie, PA USDA Z6 — * Air Products and Chemicals, Inc. Tel. (610) 481-2135 * * 7201 Hamilton Blvd. FAX (610) 481-8803 * * Allentown, PA 18195 * * USA * * Emacs – the choice of a GNU generation * * Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are those of the author. * * Any resemblance between my opinions and those of Air * * Products is purely coincidental… *