Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -(Starwind) writes: : I sent a message earlier today, but I do not see it.  So I’m trying again. : My husband has asthma.  I hear there are new drugs in the FDA pipeline. : Does anyone know approx. when approval is expected?  Anyone on the drug : studies?  What is their mode of action? One that I am aware of [and used for years in Canada, but which isn't yet available in the US] is Pulmicort.  Pulmicort is the inhaled corticosteroid budesonide.  It is the most potent and powerful inhaled steroid currently on the market [that I am aware of; and it was at least as of a few months ago]. It will be approved in 1996, probably late 1996 [i.e. this year!].  It will be in TURBUHALER form, which is a breath-activated dry powder inhaler which is PURE DRUG, *no* propellants, *no* additives, *no* preservatives. The powder is very fine,a nd everyone [including myself;  probably about 25 people in total that I personally know] that I know who uses it has no problems with it and it does not make them cough. A couple have gotten thrush at least once, but even they get it much less often then they did with previous inhalers.  Pumicort Turbuhalers are supposed to have significantly less incidence of thrush then other steroid ihalers. This drug, for me and many of my firneds, has been absolutely wonderful; it was able to bring my out of control asthma under control, and it keeps me out of very serious trouble during things like colds and bacterial infections.  It also means not going on pred as often [my MD will put me on really high doses of the Pulmicort and we've managed to avoid pred itself several times; although at those doses i get soem systemic effects, I certianly do NOT get as sick as I get on pred].. Oh!  Pulmicort is made by ASTRA.  It has been avalable in Canada since at the latest 1989, probably before that. DC. THE ABOVE IS NOT MEDICAL ADVICE.

There is also a new inhaled steroid coming out Aug 96 by the name of Flovent.  It contains fluticasone propionate and is the inhaler form of the nasal steroid Flonase.  It has been available in Canada and Europe for a while I believe.

Response:

Hi, : on really high doses of the Pulmicort and we’ve managed to avoid pred : itself several times; although at those doses i get soem systemic : effects, I certianly do NOT get as sick as I get on pred].. I must admit that I did like Pulmicort and used it for about 3 years in 1990-1993 (this was in Canada)…I can’t use it now. : : There is also a new inhaled steroid coming out Aug 96 by the name of : Flovent.  It contains fluticasone propionate and is the inhaler form of : the nasal steroid Flonase.  It has been available in Canada and Europe : for a while I believe. Flovent is still considered a very new drug and is not yet on the drug formularly in this Province (it is not recognized or covered by most drug coverage plans).  I believe it hit the Canadian market just after Christmas this year.  I started on it in February. There are two strengths of the Flovent – 125 mcgs and 250 mcgs) so 8 puffs of the 250 mcg inhaler = 16 puffs of Becloforte – approx. It’s a great drug and has done wonders for me…but VERRRRRRRY expensive at $70.00 (canadian funds) for the half sized (120 puffs). Well worth the money for me though ! High doses of the steroid inhalers can be dangerous. Amber

Response:

: I sent a message earlier today, but I do not see it.  So I’m trying again. : My husband has asthma.  I hear there are new drugs in the FDA pipeline. : Does anyone know approx. when approval is expected?  Anyone on the drug : studies?  What is their mode of action? One that I am aware of [and used for years in Canada, but which isn't yet available in the US] is Pulmicort.  Pulmicort is the inhaled corticosteroid budesonide.  It is the most potent and powerful inhaled steroid currently on the market [that I am aware of; and it was at least as of a few months ago]. It will be approved in 1996, probably late 1996 [i.e. this year!].  It will be in TURBUHALER form, which is a breath-activated dry powder inhaler which is PURE DRUG, *no* propellants, *no* additives, *no* preservatives. The powder is very fine,a nd everyone [including myself;  probably about 25 people in total that I personally know] that I know who uses it has no problems with it and it does not make them cough. A couple have gotten thrush at least once, but even they get it much less often then they did with previous inhalers.  Pumicort Turbuhalers are supposed to have significantly less incidence of thrush then other steroid ihalers. This drug, for me and many of my firneds, has been absolutely wonderful; it was able to bring my out of control asthma under control, and it keeps me out of very serious trouble during things like colds and bacterial infections.  It also means not going on pred as often [my MD will put me on really high doses of the Pulmicort and we've managed to avoid pred itself several times; although at those doses i get soem systemic effects, I certianly do NOT get as sick as I get on pred].. Oh!  Pulmicort is made by ASTRA.  It has been avalable in Canada since at the latest 1989, probably before that. DC. THE ABOVE IS NOT MEDICAL ADVICE.

Response:

I sent a message earlier today, but I do not see it.  So I’m trying again. My husband has asthma.  I hear there are new drugs in the FDA pipeline. Does anyone know approx. when approval is expected?  Anyone on the drug studies?  What is their mode of action? I’ve noticed that many of you are cautious with prednisone.  My husband takes it occasionally.  I have multiple sclerosis.  When I have flare-ups (4 in the last year and a half) I must take an IV treatment of methyl prednisone–1 gram/day for five days.  My husband has been humbled by that.  But we must all do what we can to survive.

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Question:

Thanks for the help. Brian’s chest specialist is planning to substitute Singulair for Flovent. My husband and I are still deciding whether to stop the Flovent and change to Singulair or put up with the behaviour changes and leave him on Flovent. The Flovent does work.         I’ve been using the other powerful effective steroid Pulmicort for some nine months and it’s done me a whole lot of good.           Last month I started taking Singulair. Didn’t notice any effect for a few days.  But now, thirty days later, I’m using a whole lot less of the rescue inhaler (albuterol) And from time to time, I’m  forgetting to take the Pulmicort.          I can’t believe your doctor want’s to stop the Flovent before seeing what effect the Singulair may have. (From the point of view of "If it works, don’ mess with it."  Are you sure you read him right?

Response:

I may be a little late with this response. My son has been sporatically on Singular since he was 3 y.o… The reason for only being on it once in a while is because it gave him headaches.  It took me a while to figure out they were related to the Singular, but it is listed as a side effect.  Our doctor initially had given him a 5mg chewable.  Then had us break it in half when the headaches started.   The headaches continued so I gave up on it until recently I’ve tried him on 1/2 tablets again (he is 5 now) and he seems to do better on them. Just FYI …keep it in mind that there are side effects to the Singular. Marina – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks for the help.  Brian’s chest specialist is planning to substitute Singulair for Flovent.  My husband and I are still deciding whether to stop the Flovent and change to Singulair or put up with the behaviour changes and leave him on Flovent. The Flovent does work.  He has gotten sick this week with the flu and his asthma has not flared yet (yay!!!). I have talked to other parents who have had the same experience we have with using flovent.  I haven’t seen any studies that say flovent causes behaviour changes but can only go by what I am seeing. Debbie If you haven’t already tried it, you might be surprised about your son’s reaction to Singulair. It tastes _so_ pleasing to children that I’ve read (sorry, can’t recall the source) that there is pressure on the maker to change the flavor to something less palatable. There’ve been incidents of children overdosing on it, perhaps seeing it more as It’s small, cute, pink and tastes great. Even my 10-year old, for whom Singulair proved ineffective, whined the other day he wishes he could take it again, it tasted so good. Crushing it and sprinkling it in something should be no problem for him. ~Jacy

Response:

Thanks for the help.  Brian’s chest specialist is planning to substitute Singulair for Flovent.  My husband and I are still deciding whether to stop the Flovent and change to Singulair or put up with the behaviour changes and leave him on Flovent. The Flovent does work.  He has gotten sick this week with the flu and his asthma has not flared yet (yay!!!).   I have talked to other parents who have had the same experience we have with using flovent.  I haven’t seen any studies that say flovent causes behaviour changes but can only go by what I am seeing. Debbie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you haven’t already tried it, you might be surprised about your son’s reaction to Singulair. It tastes _so_ pleasing to children that I’ve read (sorry, can’t recall the source) that there is pressure on the maker to change the flavor to something less palatable. There’ve been incidents of children overdosing on it, perhaps seeing it more as It’s small, cute, pink and tastes great. Even my 10-year old, for whom Singulair proved ineffective, whined the other day he wishes he could take it again, it tasted so good. Crushing it and sprinkling it in something should be no problem for him. ~Jacy

Response:

If you haven’t already tried it, you might be surprised about your son’s reaction to Singulair. It tastes _so_ pleasing to children that I’ve read (sorry, can’t recall the source) that there is pressure on the maker to change the flavor to something less palatable. There’ve been incidents of children overdosing on it, perhaps seeing it more as It’s small, cute, pink and tastes great. Even my 10-year old, for whom Singulair proved ineffective, whined the other day he wishes he could take it again, it tasted so good. Crushing it and sprinkling it in something should be no problem for him. ~Jacy

Response:

Hi, I’m on flovent since 1999, i’ve never had behavior and personality affects and never heard of some in children. You may try to check other places than flovent side effects. It’s working well, for singulair, headache can occur, if it doesn’t disappear after 2-3 days see your MD to quit singulair. Singulair work well in 1/3 of the peoples, there’s majority of children in this 1/3, another 1/3 get some result, and finally 1/3 don’t get any benifit. You can see result 2-3 days after the first treatment. Don’t quit flovent, for your child don’t worry you’re in the "terrible 2 years" period, they always say no, it like the small angel tranform itself in a little devil! Good luck! AT – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My 2 1/2 year old son is currently using flovent as his preventer medication.  We have found that this affects his behaviour and personality.  When I discussed this with his chest specialist he claims that flovent should not affect his personality.  He suggested that we try singulair with him. Two questions immediately come to mind. One, how do you give a chewable singulair tablet to a child who will refuse to chew it?  (He will not chew anything hard). Two, does anyone have experience with giving singulair to a child this young?  I was told that there should not be any side effects but my husband and I are concerned about using this drug.  We are considering living with the flovent because we know it works. Thanks in advance.  Debbie

Response:

My 2 1/2 year old son is currently using flovent as his preventer medication.  We have found that this affects his behaviour and personality.  When I discussed this with his chest specialist he claims that flovent should not affect his personality.  He suggested that we try singulair with him. Two questions immediately come to mind. One, how do you give a chewable singulair tablet to a child who will refuse to chew it?  (He will not chew anything hard). Two, does anyone have experience with giving singulair to a child this young?  I was told that there should not be any side effects but my husband and I are concerned about using this drug.  We are considering living with the flovent because we know it works. Thanks in advance.  Debbie

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Question:

Hi everyone, i’ve suffered headaches off and on my whole life, but over the past 8 days, I have had a severe morning headache every single morning.  It is more in the back of my head, my neck muscles are very sore and my jaw and bottom molars are sore as well. I take two excedrin migraine and the headache is completely gone within an hour, if I don’t take the excedrin, then well the headache stays with me for most of the day until after lunch.  Also my eyes are very light sensitive with these headaches. I had been on zoloft 50mg for about 8 months and two months ago I stopped taking it, I slowly weaned myself off of it.  I’m thinking these headaches could be from the zoloft withdrawal?  I also feel that I may be grinding my teeth at night but i’m not sure.  Any thoughts? Thanks in advance.

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I had been on zoloft 50mg for about 8 months and two months ago I stopped taking it, I slowly weaned myself off of it. I’m thinking these headaches could be from the zoloft withdrawal? I also feel that I may be grinding my teeth at night but i’m not sure. Any thoughts?

IMHO, it may well be the grinding of your teeth, as well as not taking zoloft anymore.  Doctors say that anti-depressants are not addictive as benzo’s, but they are so wrong.  I  weaned myself off prozac very slowly, and I felt ok for  a few months.  Then all of a sudden, I developed dizzy spells, felt very sad and awful.  So…I took the prozac again, and bingo, the dizziness went away, my crying fits stopped, and felt better (but still have that same underlying feelings of sadness and feelings of despair , guilt, etc.  Try taking the zoloft again in small doses, and see if the headaches stop.  Then you know it was the brain yelling out for the zoloft.  The brain does not forget these little pills we take, and lets us know that it wants it again.  Of course, I could be entirely wrong about this.  Maybe your headaches are caused by tension.  Maybe this, or maybe that.  Good luck and be well.   Art Decco… nyc, usa

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Question:

Hithere… for anyone who cares to know.  I am doing remarkably well on day 2 at 25% of my regular 50 mg Zoloft dosage.  I will remain at this dosage until after my menses have passed as PMS can be hellish. Happy as a Clam… PW

Hello.  I have dealt with anxiety and secondary depression for about 15 years.  I have been misdiagnosed more times than I have fingers.  I am under the impression that diagnoses are merely a way for the

psychology/psychiatry – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – industry to allocate medication.  It has nothing to do with management.  I have been on Prozac, Melaril, Paxil, Zoloft, Depakote, Risperdal and Xanax. Of all of them I found Zoloft to be the most helpful.  Unfortunately, one of the side effects is weight gain.  I have been on it, 2nd time around, for about a year and a half.  I have learned of a new pseudo-natural supplement called L5 Hydroxytryptophan (5HTP).  It’s a lot like Tryptophan in that it helps the body produce serotonin and melatonin.  I lost my job about 6 months ago, as I go through them like kleenex tissues, and, subsequently lost my health insurance.  I cannot afford to see my psychiatrist anymore. I have always been inclined toward natural healing techniques and really wanted to come off the Zoloft.  I also wanted to lose the 30 pounds I gained in the last 9 months.  I tried to come off it and I started feeling edgy on day 3.  On day 4 I was as maniacal as I was at my absolute worst.  I did some research to learn that there are indeed significant withdrawal symptoms associated with SSRIs not excluding permanent neurological damage and death.  Of all 20 or so doctors I have seen in the last 15 years nobody ever mentioned this!  I was appalled.  Had I known this I may have looked deeper into alternatives.  It’s like coming off heroin!  I am on my 6th week of tapering off.  I have had to cut my 40 hour week (at my new job w/o insurance) to 20.  Fortunately I have a job where this is possible.  I am consulting with a nutritionist on my diet and 5HTP.  She has personal experience with the same type of disorder manifestation as myself except she was on Prozac prior to using 5HTP. What I would like to know is if anyone reading this has any experience coming off SSRIs and/or using 5HTP.  I am using kava kava to help keep me calm during the day while lowering my dosage.  I use a subligual form of melatonin at night to help me stay asleep, as I have a tendancy to wake up every hour.  It’s working so far.  I am down by 50% of my 50 mg dosage. To women out there:  I do not recommend adjusting your dosage during PMS. Most of us have it worst during this time.  I adjust my dosage about a week into my cycle – when I am at my best.  I have had the best results this way. Also, it takes me about a week to adjust to the lowered dosage.  I have been working with this for nearly 2 months now.  I found that using 5HTP with the SSRI is not good.  I was flooded with serotonin and nuts as ever. I’d love to hear other ppls’ experience coming off SSRIs and the use of natural "supplements".  Thanks! Ms. PW

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I suppose you know that kava is not recommended for use with any other psychoactive drug.  Kava is known to potentiate (increase) the effects of other drugs e,g,, benzodiazepenes, alcohol and barbituates.  I  haven’t seen anything specific to SSRIs or other drugs that affect serotonin, just educated speculation that kava could have a negative impact on serotonin utilization.  Another poster related a problem with anxiety rebound when taking kava, a report I’ve never seen before; I wonder if he/she was taking another drug at the time. From your last post, though, the combination seems to be working for you. I’d suggest, though, that you keep a close watch on your reactions and discontinue the kava as appropriate.  I’d be interested in hearing how it goes for you. I gather that your intent is to withdraw from Zoloft and start on 5-HTP. May I suggest that you hold off on the 5-HTP and just stay on kava for awhile?  If you have anxiety-driven depression, you may not need anything else, or perhaps something milder like an omega-3 supplement (skip St. John’s Wort – it eats kava as well as birth control pills, HIV medication, etc.)  Anyway, take the time to evaluate yourself before you take on the possible risks associated with 5-HTP.  (Actually, I’m considering taking 5-HTP in lieu of melatonin – still researching the issue of combining it with kava) One other note about kava:  researchers may have found the reason why some users have suffered liver damage.  It seems that some herbal manufacturers have been making their kava extracts from "peelings", the bark of the aboveground stems of the plant; which contain pipemethystine, a substance proved to be toxic to liver cultures.  Peelings are a by-product of kava use in the South Pacific and are normally discarded as waste material; in 1998, though, 82% of the kava imported into the U.S. consisted of dried peelings. It would be reasonable for all kava users to research the product they use and determine whether any of the above ground portions of the plant (peelings, stem or leaves) are used; if so, change to another brand that only uses the underground portions (lateral roots and rootstalk).  You don’t need hepititis or cirrohsis on top of your other problems. You may also end up with a more effective kava :}. Cheers, Figaro

Response:

I am reevaluating my need for 5-htp at all.  Kava does seem to be working for me.  I actually only need it on days 1-3 (about) after downgrading my Zoloft dose.  After that, I seem to level out naturally, except for the use of sublingual melatonin.  I think that working only 20 hours a week really halps too, though I can’t do this forever. I have forwarded your message to my nutritionist.  I am particularly interested in what she has to say about the peelings.  The brand of kava I use is Gaia Herbs.  I’ve used other supplements they manufacture with positive results. I have heard of the anxiety rebound effect of kava though, as of yet, it’s not happened to me.  It may be because I don’t use it all the time, only while transitioning to a lower dose ssri. My most annoying withdrawal symptoms now is nausea.  It only lasts for a couple of days and it’s mild, but it makes eating difficult.  The other side of that is that I eat less.  Since I gained 30 pounds on Zoloft, I’m not complaining too loudly.  I anticipate it stopping after I come off the ssri completely. I have lost 10 of the 30 pounds in the last 6 weeks.  Every time I downgrade my dose I lose 3 pounds in the first 36 hours!  Woo-Hoo! PW

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I suppose you know that kava is not recommended for use with any other psychoactive drug.  Kava is known to potentiate (increase) the effects of other drugs e,g,, benzodiazepenes, alcohol and barbituates.  I  haven’t seen anything specific to SSRIs or other drugs that affect serotonin, just educated speculation that kava could have a negative impact on serotonin utilization.  Another poster related a problem with anxiety rebound when taking kava, a report I’ve never seen before; I wonder if he/she was taking another drug at the time. From your last post, though, the combination seems to be working for you. I’d suggest, though, that you keep a close watch on your reactions and discontinue the kava as appropriate.  I’d be interested in hearing how it goes for you. I gather that your intent is to withdraw from Zoloft and start on 5-HTP. May I suggest that you hold off on the 5-HTP and just stay on kava for awhile?  If you have anxiety-driven depression, you may not need anything else, or perhaps something milder like an omega-3 supplement (skip St. John’s Wort – it eats kava as well as birth control pills, HIV medication, etc.)  Anyway, take the time to evaluate yourself before you take on the possible risks associated with 5-HTP.  (Actually, I’m considering taking 5-HTP in lieu of melatonin – still researching the issue of combining it with kava) One other note about kava:  researchers may have found the reason why some users have suffered liver damage.  It seems that some herbal manufacturers have been making their kava extracts from "peelings", the bark of the aboveground stems of the plant; which contain pipemethystine, a substance proved to be toxic to liver cultures.  Peelings are a by-product of kava use in the South Pacific and are normally discarded as waste material; in 1998, though, 82% of the kava imported into the U.S. consisted of dried peelings. It would be reasonable for all kava users to research the product they use and determine whether any of the above ground portions of the plant (peelings, stem or leaves) are used; if so, change to another brand that only uses the underground portions (lateral roots and rootstalk).  You don’t need hepititis or cirrohsis on top of your other problems. You may also end up with a more effective kava :}. Cheers, Figaro

Response:

 Another poster related a problem with anxiety rebound when taking kava, a report I’ve never seen before; I wonder if he/she was taking another drug at the time.

That was me.  The only other drug I was on was alcohol… and lot’s of it.  I was self medicating for about 25 years. Over 15 months sober, one day at a time. Tono

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  Another poster related a problem with anxiety rebound when taking kava, a report I’ve never seen before; I wonder if he/she was taking another drug at the time. That was me.  The only other drug I was on was alcohol… and lot’s of it.  I was self medicating for about 25 years. Over 15 months sober, one day at a time. Tono

Thanks for posting the info, Tono.  I just try to collect info on kava whereever it may be!

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LM, Thank you for your information.  I am working with a nutritionist who has an MS.  She has informaed me that the blood levels of 5HTP are a concern only for those very few with serious metabolic issues.  I am quite healthy in that regard.  She assures me that in her years of working with the CDC she participated in clinical studies on the use of 5htp and tryptophan and found that both amino acids are quite safe in healthy individuals.  She has several patients who are taking up to 250 mg of 5htp daily and have for a year or better with no problems at all.  In my opinion, the ssris are a much greater risk for me personally since there are no clinical studies on the effect ssris in ppl taking them over one year.  The side effects of ssris have been devastating for me.  For those with metabolic issues it should not be taken lightly though.  Thank you.  I will keep the group informed on my progress. PW

Hello.  I have dealt with anxiety and secondary depression for about 15 years.  I have been misdiagnosed more times than I have fingers.  I am under the impression that diagnoses are merely a way for the

psychology/psychiatry – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – industry to allocate medication.  It has nothing to do with management. I have been on Prozac, Melaril, Paxil, Zoloft, Depakote, Risperdal and Xanax. Of all of them I found Zoloft to be the most helpful.  Unfortunately, one of the side effects is weight gain.  I have been on it, 2nd time around, for about a year and a half.  I have learned of a new pseudo-natural supplement called L5 Hydroxytryptophan (5HTP).  It’s a lot like Tryptophan in that it helps the body produce serotonin and melatonin.  I lost my job about 6 months ago, as I go through them like kleenex tissues, and, subsequently lost my health insurance.  I cannot afford to see my psychiatrist anymore. I have always been inclined toward natural healing techniques and really wanted to come off the Zoloft.  I also wanted to lose the 30 pounds I gained in the last 9 months.  I tried to come off it and I started feeling edgy on day 3.  On day 4 I was as maniacal as I was at my absolute worst.  I did some research to learn that there are indeed significant withdrawal symptoms associated with SSRIs not excluding permanent neurological damage and death.  Of all 20 or so doctors I have seen in the last 15 years nobody ever mentioned this!  I was appalled.  Had I known this I may have looked deeper into alternatives.  It’s like coming off heroin!  I am on my 6th week of tapering off.  I have had to cut my 40 hour week (at my new job w/o insurance) to 20.  Fortunately I have a job where this is possible.  I am consulting with a nutritionist on my diet and 5HTP.  She has personal experience with the same type of disorder manifestation as myself except she was on Prozac prior to using 5HTP. What I would like to know is if anyone reading this has any experience coming off SSRIs and/or using 5HTP.  I am using kava kava to help keep me calm during the day while lowering my dosage.  I use a subligual form of melatonin at night to help me stay asleep, as I have a tendancy to wake up every hour.  It’s working so far.  I am down by 50% of my 50 mg dosage. To women out there:  I do not recommend adjusting your dosage during PMS. Most of us have it worst during this time.  I adjust my dosage about a week into my cycle – when I am at my best.  I have had the best results this way. Also, it takes me about a week to adjust to the lowered dosage.  I have been working with this for nearly 2 months now.  I found that using 5HTP with the SSRI is not good.  I was flooded with serotonin and nuts as ever. I’d love to hear other ppls’ experience coming off SSRIs and the use of natural "supplements".  Thanks! Ms. PW please do not take 5ht without discussing it thoroughly with a doctor-it can cause elevated serum levels of serotonin which does not pass the blood brain barrier but can destroy the valves of your heart-tryptophan as a supplement will not do this because the metabolic process of converting tryptophan buffers the larger flooding of blood levels if you truly believe this supplement is working  for you a urinary 5HIAA test should be done every month or so to see if your blood level of serotonin isn’t too high-if you have any coronary artery disease using this supplement is dangerous there is a whole complex interplay between B vitamins and serotonin as well as its percursors like 5ht -natural supplements are often drugs or co-drugs in a sense so please don’t be over-comfortable by their "natural" label-there are cancerous tumors that secrete gobs of 5ht and that is natural too-for the tumors. Just be careful please LM

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Thanks, Tono.  Actually the kava kava really does help me.  The thing I like to keep in mind is that everyone is different.  That’s why I have a hard time beleiving in diagnoses – there are too many variations.  I’ll keep your suggestion in mind.  But for now it’s the only thing that DOES help.

Well, I’m glad it’s helping.  Just be sure not to over do it.  As far as the diagnosis, I know what you mean.  My Dr. never gave me an actual diagnosis, or I would have 10 or 20 of them!  He only tries to work with all my various symptoms. And like Margrove said, BE CAREFULL! Tono – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  PW What I would like to know is if anyone reading this has any experience coming off SSRIs and/or using 5HTP.  I am using kava kava to help keep me calm during the day while lowering my dosage. Kava always gave me an awful rebound effect of anxiety.  It worsened each day and I needed more and more of it.  It’s one of the worst "natural" remedies I’ve tried.  Remember, natural doesn’t mean it’s good or safe.  I’d never drink crude oil. Tono

Response:

Hello.  I have dealt with anxiety and secondary depression for about 15 years.  I have been misdiagnosed more times than I have fingers.  I am under the impression that diagnoses are merely a way for the psychology/psychiatry industry to allocate medication.  It has nothing to do with management.  I have been on Prozac, Melaril, Paxil, Zoloft, Depakote, Risperdal and Xanax. Of all of them I found Zoloft to be the most helpful.  Unfortunately, one of the side effects is weight gain.  I have been on it, 2nd time around, for about a year and a half.  I have learned of a new pseudo-natural supplement called L5 Hydroxytryptophan (5HTP).  It’s a lot like Tryptophan in that it helps the body produce serotonin and melatonin.  I lost my job about 6 months ago, as I go through them like kleenex tissues, and, subsequently lost my health insurance.  I cannot afford to see my psychiatrist anymore. I have always been inclined toward natural healing techniques and really wanted to come off the Zoloft.  I also wanted to lose the 30 pounds I gained in the last 9 months.  I tried to come off it and I started feeling edgy on day 3.  On day 4 I was as maniacal as I was at my absolute worst.  I did some research to learn that there are indeed significant withdrawal symptoms associated with SSRIs not excluding permanent neurological damage and death.  Of all 20 or so doctors I have seen in the last 15 years nobody ever mentioned this!  I was appalled.  Had I known this I may have looked deeper into alternatives.  It’s like coming off heroin!  I am on my 6th week of tapering off.  I have had to cut my 40 hour week (at my new job w/o insurance) to 20.  Fortunately I have a job where this is possible.  I am consulting with a nutritionist on my diet and 5HTP.  She has personal experience with the same type of disorder manifestation as myself except she was on Prozac prior to using 5HTP. What I would like to know is if anyone reading this has any experience coming off SSRIs and/or using 5HTP.  I am using kava kava to help keep me calm during the day while lowering my dosage.  I use a subligual form of melatonin at night to help me stay asleep, as I have a tendancy to wake up every hour.  It’s working so far.  I am down by 50% of my 50 mg dosage. To women out there:  I do not recommend adjusting your dosage during PMS. Most of us have it worst during this time.  I adjust my dosage about a week into my cycle – when I am at my best.  I have had the best results this way. Also, it takes me about a week to adjust to the lowered dosage.  I have been working with this for nearly 2 months now.  I found that using 5HTP with the SSRI is not good.  I was flooded with serotonin and nuts as ever. I’d love to hear other ppls’ experience coming off SSRIs and the use of natural "supplements".  Thanks! Ms. PW

Response:

What I would like to know is if anyone reading this has any experience coming off SSRIs and/or using 5HTP.  I am using kava kava to help keep me calm during the day while lowering my dosage.

Kava always gave me an awful rebound effect of anxiety.  It worsened each day and I needed more and more of it.  It’s one of the worst "natural" remedies I’ve tried.  Remember, natural doesn’t mean it’s good or safe.  I’d never drink crude oil. Tono

Response:

Thanks, Tono.  Actually the kava kava really does help me.  The thing I like to keep in mind is that everyone is different.  That’s why I have a hard time beleiving in diagnoses – there are too many variations.  I’ll keep your suggestion in mind.  But for now it’s the only thing that DOES help.  PW

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What I would like to know is if anyone reading this has any experience coming off SSRIs and/or using 5HTP.  I am using kava kava to help keep me calm during the day while lowering my dosage. Kava always gave me an awful rebound effect of anxiety.  It worsened each day and I needed more and more of it.  It’s one of the worst "natural" remedies I’ve tried.  Remember, natural doesn’t mean it’s good or safe.  I’d never drink crude oil. Tono

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello.  I have dealt with anxiety and secondary depression for about 15 years.  I have been misdiagnosed more times than I have fingers.  I am under the impression that diagnoses are merely a way for the psychology/psychiatry industry to allocate medication.  It has nothing to do with management.  I have been on Prozac, Melaril, Paxil, Zoloft, Depakote, Risperdal and Xanax. Of all of them I found Zoloft to be the most helpful.  Unfortunately, one of the side effects is weight gain.  I have been on it, 2nd time around, for about a year and a half.  I have learned of a new pseudo-natural supplement called L5 Hydroxytryptophan (5HTP).  It’s a lot like Tryptophan in that it helps the body produce serotonin and melatonin.  I lost my job about 6 months ago, as I go through them like kleenex tissues, and, subsequently lost my health insurance.  I cannot afford to see my psychiatrist anymore. I have always been inclined toward natural healing techniques and really wanted to come off the Zoloft.  I also wanted to lose the 30 pounds I gained in the last 9 months.  I tried to come off it and I started feeling edgy on day 3.  On day 4 I was as maniacal as I was at my absolute worst.  I did some research to learn that there are indeed significant withdrawal symptoms associated with SSRIs not excluding permanent neurological damage and death.  Of all 20 or so doctors I have seen in the last 15 years nobody ever mentioned this!  I was appalled.  Had I known this I may have looked deeper into alternatives.  It’s like coming off heroin!  I am on my 6th week of tapering off.  I have had to cut my 40 hour week (at my new job w/o insurance) to 20.  Fortunately I have a job where this is possible.  I am consulting with a nutritionist on my diet and 5HTP.  She has personal experience with the same type of disorder manifestation as myself except she was on Prozac prior to using 5HTP. What I would like to know is if anyone reading this has any experience coming off SSRIs and/or using 5HTP.  I am using kava kava to help keep me calm during the day while lowering my dosage.  I use a subligual form of melatonin at night to help me stay asleep, as I have a tendancy to wake up every hour.  It’s working so far.  I am down by 50% of my 50 mg dosage. To women out there:  I do not recommend adjusting your dosage during PMS. Most of us have it worst during this time.  I adjust my dosage about a week into my cycle – when I am at my best.  I have had the best results this way. Also, it takes me about a week to adjust to the lowered dosage.  I have been working with this for nearly 2 months now.  I found that using 5HTP with the SSRI is not good.  I was flooded with serotonin and nuts as ever. I’d love to hear other ppls’ experience coming off SSRIs and the use of natural "supplements".  Thanks! Ms. PW

please do not take 5ht without discussing it thoroughly with a doctor-it can cause elevated serum levels of serotonin which does not pass the blood brain barrier but can destroy the valves of your heart-tryptophan as a supplement will not do this because the metabolic process of converting tryptophan buffers the larger flooding of blood levels if you truly believe this supplement is working  for you a urinary 5HIAA test should be done every month or so to see if your blood level of serotonin isn’t too high-if you have any coronary artery disease using this supplement is dangerous there is a whole complex interplay between B vitamins and serotonin as well as its percursors like 5ht -natural supplements are often drugs or co-drugs in a sense so please don’t be over-comfortable by their "natural" label-there are cancerous tumors that secrete gobs of 5ht and that is natural too-for the tumors. Just be careful please LM

Response:

Question:

Effexor Withdrawal Causing Crackling Sounds in the Brain Antidepressants  "Thank God for this website." I had a nervous breakdown six years ago and after being on other

anti-depressants without a problem, my psychiatrist felt that Effexor had less of an effect on the heart, and so switched me to Effexor. I have tried unsuccessfully to quit on many

occasions, even though I only take 37.5 mgs per day. The extreme lethargy I feel when I have tried to quit, the tingling in various parts of my body, the weird dreams and most

troublesome of all, the crackling, electric sounds in my head have caused me too much distress to ever be successful.

Hi, I think that you have to think about all these  side effect problems. Maybe they are not side-effect, maybe they are only telling you that you are stressed, and you need to fix your problems, otherwise the side-problems will be forever with you B

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Effexor Withdrawal Causing Crackling Sounds in the Brain Antidepressants  "Thank God for this website." I had a nervous breakdown six years ago and after being on other  anti-depressants without a problem, my psychiatrist felt that Effexor had less of an effect on the  heart, and so switched me to Effexor. I have tried unsuccessfully to quit on many  occasions, even though I only take 37.5 mgs per day. The extreme lethargy I feel when I have  tried to quit, the tingling in various parts of my body, the weird dreams and most  troublesome of all, the crackling, electric sounds in my head have caused me too much distress to  ever be successful. Hi, I think that you have to think about all these  side effect problems. Maybe they are not side-effect, maybe they are only telling you that you are stressed, and you need to fix your problems, otherwise the side-problems will be forever with you B

I thought cross-posting to and from different kind of newsgroups was not the reason why they started alt.support.schizofrenia. Btw, is it not forbidden in the FAQ ? Berty

Response:

Effexor Withdrawal Causing Crackling Sounds in the Brain Antidepressants  "Thank God for this website." I had a nervous breakdown six years ago and after being on other

anti-depressants without a problem, my psychiatrist felt that Effexor had less of an effect on the heart, and so switched me to Effexor. I have tried unsuccessfully to quit on many

occasions, even though I only take 37.5 mgs per day. The extreme lethargy I feel when I have tried to quit, the tingling in various parts of my body, the weird dreams and most

troublesome of all, the crackling, electric sounds in my head have caused me too much distress to ever be successful.

Hi, I think that you have to think about all these  side effect problems. Maybe they are not side-effect, maybe they are only telling you that you are stressed, and you need to fix your problems, otherwise the side-problems will be forever with you B

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Effexor Withdrawal Causing Crackling Sounds in the Brain Antidepressants  "Thank God for this website." I had a nervous breakdown six years ago and after being on other  anti-depressants without a problem, my psychiatrist felt that Effexor had less of an effect on the  heart, and so switched me to Effexor. I have tried unsuccessfully to quit on many  occasions, even though I only take 37.5 mgs per day. The extreme lethargy I feel when I have  tried to quit, the tingling in various parts of my body, the weird dreams and most  troublesome of all, the crackling, electric sounds in my head have caused me too much distress to  ever be successful. Hi, I think that you have to think about all these  side effect problems. Maybe they are not side-effect, maybe they are only telling you that you are stressed, and you need to fix your problems, otherwise the side-problems will be forever with you B

I thought cross-posting to and from different kind of newsgroups was not the reason why they started alt.support.schizofrenia. Btw, is it not forbidden in the FAQ ? Berty

Response:

Question:

Hi Cheryl, So sorry you are going through this.  Sending you caring and support!   Take care, Liz — There is always music amongst the trees in the garden but our minds must be very still to hear it. ASAP Gardening Site: http://www.chickadee.com/asapgardens

Response:

See below….(Phillip)

answered by email as I got it in my inbox as well. P. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Philip, It’s been the worst day…I have been so sick today…I still feel so odd, tomorrow I am only taking 25mg…( she has me on 50)  I had no short term memory, I would start saying something and forget, go into a room and forgot what I went for.. I haven’t had hardly a bite to eat and have been trying to drink.  I am caling Medusa tomorrow then I have to call my freakin primary to see her and then get a referral to go see someone able to help me with this medication..I can’t even think about it.   I think the worst today was when I woke up after just crashing I could hear my dead step father talking to me in my ear…that freaked me out.  I have been on the couch all day and thank God it’s Ted’s early day.  ;o( This whole thing saddens me. — Clowns to the left of me Jokers to the right Here I am Stuck in the middle with you. TC3 Ugh. I started 50mg of Z yesterday…from only a week of decreasing my Remeron from 30 to 15.  I feel like I am on a ship, everything is rocking and I am sweaty and feeling like a wet noodle. Of all freaking times to have to post about my meds with all the crap going on here…  That makes me more upset. One good thing, I have zippo appetite…that Snickers bar sitting on the hutch doesn’t even look appealing. I think you might ask your doctor to reduce the Zoloft dose to 12.5 mg and then raise it slowly. You are now experiencing initial SSRI side effects possibly augmented by Remeron withdrawal (although R is not associated witjh a withdrawal problem as a rule). Do you have one of those lovely benzos on the side to take *as needed*? Philip — Clowns to the left of me Jokers to the right Here I am Stuck in the middle with you. TC3

Response:

Thanks Philip~ I emailed you…oh you bet your boots I have my ativan handy! xoxo Cheryl — Clowns to the left of me Jokers to the right Here I am Stuck in the middle with you. TC3

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – See below….(Phillip) answered by email as I got it in my inbox as well. P. Philip, It’s been the worst day…I have been so sick today…I still feel so odd, tomorrow I am only taking 25mg…( she has me on 50)  I had no short term memory, I would start saying something and forget, go into a room and forgot what I went for.. I haven’t had hardly a bite to eat and have been trying to drink.  I am caling Medusa tomorrow then I have to call my freakin primary to see her and then get a referral to go see someone able to help me with this medication..I can’t even think about it.   I think the worst today was when I woke up after just crashing I could hear my dead step father talking to me in my ear…that freaked me out.  I have been on the couch all day and thank God it’s Ted’s early day.  ;o( This whole thing saddens me. — Clowns to the left of me Jokers to the right Here I am Stuck in the middle with you. TC3 Ugh. I started 50mg of Z yesterday…from only a week of decreasing my Remeron from 30 to 15.  I feel like I am on a ship, everything is rocking and I am sweaty and feeling like a wet noodle. Of all freaking times to have to post about my meds with all the crap going on here…  That makes me more upset. One good thing, I have zippo appetite…that Snickers bar sitting on the hutch doesn’t even look appealing. I think you might ask your doctor to reduce the Zoloft dose to 12.5 mg and then raise it slowly. You are now experiencing initial SSRI side effects possibly augmented by Remeron withdrawal (although R is not associated witjh a withdrawal problem as a rule). Do you have one of those lovely benzos on the side to take *as needed*? Philip — Clowns to the left of me Jokers to the right Here I am Stuck in the middle with you. TC3

Response:

I am sorry you aren’t feeling well. Hopfully you will get used to the new meds very soon. Good luck and I hope you feel better. Amy

Response:

Ugh. I started 50mg of Z yesterday…from only a week of decreasing my Remeron from 30 to 15.  I feel like I am on a ship, everything is rocking and I am sweaty and feeling like a wet noodle. Of all freaking times to have to post about my meds with all the crap going on here…  That makes me more upset. One good thing, I have zippo appetite…that Snickers bar sitting on the hutch doesn’t even look appealing.

I think you might ask your doctor to reduce the Zoloft dose to 12.5 mg and then raise it slowly. You are now experiencing initial SSRI side effects possibly augmented by Remeron withdrawal (although R is not associated witjh a withdrawal problem as a rule). Do you have one of those lovely benzos on the side to take *as needed*? Philip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — Clowns to the left of me Jokers to the right Here I am Stuck in the middle with you. TC3

Response:

See below….(Phillip) Philip, It’s been the worst day…I have been so sick today…I still feel so odd, tomorrow I am only taking 25mg…( she has me on 50)  I had no short term memory, I would start saying something and forget, go into a room and forgot what I went for.. I haven’t had hardly a bite to eat and have been trying to drink.  I am caling Medusa tomorrow then I have to call my freakin primary to see her and then get a referral to go see someone able to help me with this medication..I can’t even think about it.   I think the worst today was when I woke up after just crashing I could hear my dead step father talking to me in my ear…that freaked me out.  I have been on the couch all day and thank God it’s Ted’s early day.  ;o( This whole thing saddens me. — Clowns to the left of me Jokers to the right Here I am Stuck in the middle with you. TC3

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ugh. I started 50mg of Z yesterday…from only a week of decreasing my Remeron from 30 to 15.  I feel like I am on a ship, everything is rocking and I am sweaty and feeling like a wet noodle. Of all freaking times to have to post about my meds with all the crap going on here…  That makes me more upset. One good thing, I have zippo appetite…that Snickers bar sitting on the hutch doesn’t even look appealing. I think you might ask your doctor to reduce the Zoloft dose to 12.5 mg and then raise it slowly. You are now experiencing initial SSRI side effects possibly augmented by Remeron withdrawal (although R is not associated witjh a withdrawal problem as a rule). Do you have one of those lovely benzos on the side to take *as needed*? Philip — Clowns to the left of me Jokers to the right Here I am Stuck in the middle with you. TC3

Response:

Is 50mg a lot? Is it comparable to Remeron 30 or 15?

Yup, 50mgs is too high to start with. Some people start at 12.5mgs, others at 25mgs. Hope you are feeling better Jackie ~*~There came a time when the risk to remain tight in a bud was

Response:

Hi Cheryl, ((((Cheryl)))), I hope you feel better soon, I don’t have any words of wisdom for you, sorry. I’ve been gone a while, what’s going on here that I’m missing? Love Cathy — P.H.O.B.I.A. Off-line NJ Panic/Anxiety Support Group http://community.nj.com/cc/phobia

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ugh. I started 50mg of Z yesterday…from only a week of decreasing my Remeron from 30 to 15.  I feel like I am on a ship, everything is rocking and I am sweaty and feeling like a wet noodle. Of all freaking times to have to post about my meds with all the crap going on here…  That makes me more upset. One good thing, I have zippo appetite…that Snickers bar sitting on the hutch doesn’t even look appealing. — Clowns to the left of me Jokers to the right Here I am Stuck in the middle with you. TC3

Response:

Cheryl, Hope you are feeling better soon.  Those med changes can really get the best of us.  Hangin there… smiles, elise

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ugh. I started 50mg of Z yesterday…from only a week of decreasing my Remeron from 30 to 15.  I feel like I am on a ship, everything is rocking and I am sweaty and feeling like a wet noodle. Of all freaking times to have to post about my meds with all the crap going on here…  That makes me more upset. One good thing, I have zippo appetite…that Snickers bar sitting on the hutch doesn’t even look appealing. — Clowns to the left of me Jokers to the right Here I am Stuck in the middle with you. TC3

Response:

I’m so sorry you feel so crummy!  Pamper yourself today. Love, Di

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ugh. I started 50mg of Z yesterday…from only a week of decreasing my Remeron from 30 to 15.  I feel like I am on a ship, everything is rocking and I am sweaty and feeling like a wet noodle. Of all freaking times to have to post about my meds with all the crap going on here…  That makes me more upset. One good thing, I have zippo appetite…that Snickers bar sitting on the hutch doesn’t even look appealing. — Clowns to the left of me Jokers to the right Here I am Stuck in the middle with you. TC3

Response:

Is 50mg a lot? Is it comparable to Remeron 30 or 15?

different drug different mechanism of action-if your gonna do the medusa dance get her to dosie doe a bit and get her permission to up your ativan or up hers and call Jeff Apter-Zoloft compared to remeron is like qualuudes vrs speed so your now on dexamil and doin a bounce-50mg may be too high for a conversion for you it is a transition so make yourself comfortable as possible instead of white knuckling it-that lack of appetite will change to some carb craving soon this is a signal the zoloft is working but imo may be just change for change sake as the more you crave and consume the less you will burn and lose-she is using an older viewpoint that zoloft reduces appetite-ask some others here if their appetite is reduced-it is no less difficult to wean off then remeron in fact it may be a tad bit more difficult due to its energizing effects on some-get a professional opinion by a psychopharm doc not a transplant renal nephrologist whatever—- she wants to maximize the transplants life and that’s ok but there are other issues-including if you are psychologicaly ready to embark on being med free-trade offs is the name of the game-ch ch ch changes—-love bowie within a few days you will feel better be a patient patient but an assertive one-its your kidney now and your medical program- LM

Response:

TC3 wrote : Ugh. I started 50mg of Z yesterday…from only a week of decreasing my Remeron from 30 to 15.  I feel like I am on a ship, everything is rocking and I am sweaty and feeling like a wet noodle. Of all freaking times to have to post about my meds with all the crap going on here…  That makes me more upset. One good thing, I have zippo appetite…that Snickers bar sitting on the hutch doesn’t even look appealing.

Hi Cheryl. I’m sorry to hear you don’t feel so well right now. You’ll feel better later on I’m sure; not that that’s any great consolation… Hope you are better quickly. Take care please. -Z-

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Path: news.wxs.nl!transit.news.xs4all.nl!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell. syr.edu!europa.netcrusader.net!207.172.3.44!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.r cn.net!rcn!not-for-mail X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVaCEadlqERcrH2iB2DgoRe3oWrW7CknZkw+m+WUDUIrVGnuqIZuMKvN 12:55:51 GMT X-MimeOLE:  Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 X-Priority:  3 X-Newsreader:  Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MSMail-Priority:  Normal Xref: news.wxs.nl alt.support.anxiety-panic:263175 Thank you Anna! My doc thinks if I get off the Rem I can lose some weight…I just feel like I was so manic yesterday then crashed by midnight now I am really anxious and just feeling like a noodle. (  I have to get her ready for school and feel like I won’t be able to get her out of the door.. I don’t want to make her stay home because of this..that isn’t fair to her.  *sigh* I need your hug thanks xoxoxo love Cheryl

Dear one, yes you sounded a bit manic yestreday I think you have worn yourself down totally If you manage to get the sprogg to school try take some rest Cheryl We both know that tiredness is a great motor for PA. Hope you get some rest and hang in there Lotsa kisses over the ocean flying your way Anna – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — Clowns to the left of me Jokers to the right Here I am Stuck in the middle with you. TC3 Path: news.wxs.nl!news2.kpn.net!news.kpn.net!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!f e ed2.onemain.com!feed1.onemain.com!news-out.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!feed2 . news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!not-for-mail Feb 2001 07:29:59 -0500 Lines: UmFuZG9tSVZ9/f13lPYO1NQUJPzRlFuUUs+boUPTy+xZ+DqhBnD8RP1a78V4bucI 12:19:46 GMT X-MimeOLE:  Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 X-Priority:  3 X-Newsreader:  Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MSMail-Priority:  Normal Xref: news.wxs.nl alt.support.anxiety-panic:263162 Ugh. I started 50mg of Z yesterday…from only a week of decreasing my Remeron from 30 to 15.  I feel like I am on a ship, everything is rocking and I am sweaty and feeling like a wet noodle. Of all freaking times to have to post about my meds with all the crap going on here…  That makes me more upset. One good thing, I have zippo appetite…that Snickers bar sitting on the hutch doesn’t even look appealing. — Clowns to the left of me Jokers to the right Here I am Stuck in the middle with you. TC3 Dear cheryl, I did not know you where changing meds Why is that was the other med not doing its work ??? I am really sorry you feel like this. Maybe it gets better soon. I really hope so for you. And otherwise call the doc.  No need to feel awfull all the time !!! You had your share huh VERY ferm hug from Anna

Response:

Hi Cheryl, I know how you feel.  Supposedly, switching from Paxil to Zoloft was not supposed to be any big deal, but I feel different and it is not all my doing.  I am more nervous, and have the trembles.  I am just trying to be patient and see if it passes with time.  I still function, but do not feel comfortable.  Chores are getting done as usual, but not with the same peace. Hope you feel better soon, Cheryl.  Let us know how you are doing! Take care, Liz – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ugh. I started 50mg of Z yesterday…from only a week of decreasing my Remeron from 30 to 15.  I feel like I am on a ship, everything is rocking and I am sweaty and feeling like a wet noodle. Of all freaking times to have to post about my meds with all the crap going on here…  That makes me more upset. One good thing, I have zippo appetite…that Snickers bar sitting on the hutch doesn’t even look appealing. — Clowns to the left of me Jokers to the right Here I am Stuck in the middle with you. TC3

– There is always music amongst the trees in the garden but our minds must be very still to hear it. ASAP Gardening Site: http://www.chickadee.com/asapgardens

Response:

I feel like dog doo. I am manic then exhausted, and I can’t remember anything…I was a mess getting her ready for school. Ack. I know it’s a transition.. Julie, that Snickers is still there so you know I am not feeling well~ LOL Is 50mg a lot? Is it comparable to Remeron 30 or 15? <Mercury, AD change and anxiety…perfect together LOL love Cheryl — Clowns to the left of me Jokers to the right Here I am Stuck in the middle with you. TC3

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I started 50mg of Z yesterday…from only a week of decreasing my Remeron from 30 to 15.  I feel like I am on a ship, everything is rocking and I am sweaty and feeling like a wet noodle. Of all freaking times to have to post about my meds with all the crap going on here…  That makes me more upset. One good thing, I have zippo appetite…that Snickers bar sitting on the hutch doesn’t even look appealing. Dear Cheryl, I`m sorry that you feel so lousy ( If you continue to feel this way, you might want to ask your doctor about decreasing your Zoloft dose to 25mgs for a week, them go to 50mgs, you could even wean slower than this by increasing in 12.5mg increments. I hope you feel better soon {{{{{Cheryl}}}}} Jackie

Response:

I started 50mg of Z yesterday…from only a week of decreasing my Remeron from 30 to 15.  I feel like I am on a ship, everything is rocking and I am sweaty and feeling like a wet noodle. Of all freaking times to have to post about my meds with all the crap going on here…  That makes me more upset. One good thing, I have zippo appetite…that Snickers bar sitting on the hutch doesn’t even look appealing.

Dear Cheryl, I`m sorry that you feel so lousy ( If you continue to feel this way, you might want to ask your doctor about decreasing your Zoloft dose to 25mgs for a week, them go to 50mgs, you could even wean slower than this by increasing in 12.5mg increments. I hope you feel better soon {{{{{Cheryl}}}}} Jackie

Response:

Ugh. I started 50mg of Z yesterday…from only a week of decreasing my Remeron from 30 to 15.  I feel like I am on a ship, everything is rocking and I am sweaty and feeling like a wet noodle. Of all freaking times to have to post about my meds with all the crap going on here…  That makes me more upset. One good thing, I have zippo appetite…that Snickers bar sitting on the hutch doesn’t even look appealing.

How long are you going to look at that Snickers Bar???? Sweetie, ignore the crap here. No biggie. Now, you know that it will take awhile for the Zoloft to get to a theraputic level in your system. You need to hang on through these few physical adjustments UNLESS they are bothering you too much. Then call the doctor and tell him. If you have a chance, call the pharmacist and ask him to give you the details on the zoloft. He should be able to pop that info on his screen while you are on the phone with him. Let him know the side effects you are having…then he can look it up. When my Effexor was increased, each time I had a strange symptom or side effect, which eventually went away. I hope that your sweats and unsteadiness will not be for long. Is that Snickers still sitting on your hutch? love,Julie

Response:

Ugh. I started 50mg of Z yesterday…from only a week of decreasing my Remeron from 30 to 15.  I feel like I am on a ship, everything is rocking and I am sweaty and feeling like a wet noodle. Of all freaking times to have to post about my meds with all the crap going on here…  That makes me more upset. One good thing, I have zippo appetite…that Snickers bar sitting on the hutch doesn’t even look appealing. — Clowns to the left of me Jokers to the right Here I am Stuck in the middle with you. TC3

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Path: news.wxs.nl!news2.kpn.net!news.kpn.net!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!f eed2.onemain.com!feed1.onemain.com!news-out.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!feed 2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!not-for-mail UmFuZG9tSVZ9/f13lPYO1NQUJPzRlFuUUs+boUPTy+xZ+DqhBnD8RP1a78V4bucI 12:19:46 GMT X-MimeOLE:  Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 X-Priority:  3 X-Newsreader:  Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MSMail-Priority:  Normal Xref: news.wxs.nl alt.support.anxiety-panic:263162 Ugh. I started 50mg of Z yesterday…from only a week of decreasing my Remeron from 30 to 15.  I feel like I am on a ship, everything is rocking and I am sweaty and feeling like a wet noodle. Of all freaking times to have to post about my meds with all the crap going on here…  That makes me more upset. One good thing, I have zippo appetite…that Snickers bar sitting on the hutch doesn’t even look appealing. — Clowns to the left of me Jokers to the right Here I am Stuck in the middle with you. TC3

Dear cheryl, I did not know you where changing meds Why is that was the other med not doing its work ??? I am really sorry you feel like this. Maybe it gets better soon. I really hope so for you. And otherwise call the doc.  No need to feel awfull all the time !!! You had your share huh VERY ferm hug from Anna

Response:

Thank you Anna! My doc thinks if I get off the Rem I can lose some weight…I just feel like I was so manic yesterday then crashed by midnight now I am really anxious and just feeling like a noodle. (  I have to get her ready for school and feel like I won’t be able to get her out of the door.. I don’t want to make her stay home because of this..that isn’t fair to her.  *sigh* I need your hug thanks xoxoxo love Cheryl — Clowns to the left of me Jokers to the right Here I am Stuck in the middle with you. TC3

Path:

news.wxs.nl!news2.kpn.net!news.kpn.net!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!f e ed2.onemain.com!feed1.onemain.com!news-out.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!feed2 . news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!not-for-mail – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – UmFuZG9tSVZ9/f13lPYO1NQUJPzRlFuUUs+boUPTy+xZ+DqhBnD8RP1a78V4bucI 12:19:46 GMT X-MimeOLE:  Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 X-Priority:  3 X-Newsreader:  Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MSMail-Priority:  Normal Xref: news.wxs.nl alt.support.anxiety-panic:263162 Ugh. I started 50mg of Z yesterday…from only a week of decreasing my Remeron from 30 to 15.  I feel like I am on a ship, everything is rocking and I am sweaty and feeling like a wet noodle. Of all freaking times to have to post about my meds with all the crap going on here…  That makes me more upset. One good thing, I have zippo appetite…that Snickers bar sitting on the hutch doesn’t even look appealing. — Clowns to the left of me Jokers to the right Here I am Stuck in the middle with you. TC3 Dear cheryl, I did not know you where changing meds Why is that was the other med not doing its work ??? I am really sorry you feel like this. Maybe it gets better soon. I really hope so for you. And otherwise call the doc.  No need to feel awfull all the time !!! You had your share huh VERY ferm hug from Anna

Response:

Question:

Hi Betsy, Excellent thread! For those of you who are on antidepressants, what different sorts of experiences have you had that show they’re working? We’re all taught to recognize such symptoms of depression as deep sadness, lack of energy, apathy, etc.

What shows they are working.  I think it’s good to approach this from both the lack of negative symptoms *and* the return of positives: – Less deep sadness, replaced by feelings of calm or "normalcy".  The "normalcy" is noticed by realizations that "hey!  this is how I used to feel when I wasn’t depressed!". – Lack of energy, replaced by just the ability to get out of bed and in the shower in order to make it to work on time.  Feeling rested after a normal nights sleep, instead of wanting to sleep all day. – Apathy replaced by hope that things can get better, and caring about that, which also can ironically cause some fear in me.  In the 3 weeks I’ve been taking meds for dysthymia (low grade chronic depression), these things, to the less profound degree I’ve felt them, have cleared up.  

Good!  I’m glad for you! But a more noticeable difference for me is a greater ability/willingness to be open and honest with my feelings *before* a fuse gets lit — I don’t keep from speaking up and let things fester so much.  Then a problem can be resolved when it’s still small, and my feelings stay more neutral during and after the resolution.  It’s weird.  : )

I’ve noticed that I tend to be able to resolve things in a more tactful appropriate manner sooner when I’m doing well on antidepressants.  One concern that I have is that one of the meds I take is Klonopin, and it gives me what I would consider an artificial self confidence and changes my personality in ways that I’m more laid back and I’ve noticed that people respond very positively to that.  My sense of humor increases too, or at least my ability to convey it. The concern is that Klonopin is addictive, and I must moderate its use.  I never take more than the prescribed dosage, but sometimes recently I have been taking up to 2mg (like today), so I want to go a week or so without it, or maybe taking only .5mg. Two of the lesser-talked-about symptoms of depression are persistent feelings of low self-worth and guilt.  I’m not saying that antidepressants are the cure-all for these feelings, but I wonder if the meds are helping to relieve some of these feelings in me so that speaking up is a more tolerable option now?

I think this goes back to speaking up — that can help relieve guilt. If you’re feeling less depressed and good about yourself in general, it’s easier to brush off someone else’s inappropriate guilt feelings. This past weekend I told my Mom I was going to try to contact the Make a Wish Foundation to see if she could get tickets to see Tiger Woods in Rockford.  My Mom’s been through a lot, she loves Tiger Woods, and it would make her sooooooo happy.  It would make me equally or more happy to be able to make her happy.  Well, when I asked my Mom if I have her permission to do that, my sister said, in an irritated condescending tone of voice that Make a Wish is only for terminally ill children. Well, my first feeling was hurt.  I had taken a risk and gone out of my way to try to do something positive, and immediately it was shot down by my sister (but my Mom liked the idea — anything to see Tiger Woods  My sister started to say more, and I realized I didn’t want to get into a debate with her.  So, I said I didn’t want to talk about it.  She called me rude for not wanting to talk about it, that when someone wants to talk I "should" talk.  I said no, I’m setting a boundary and I choose not to talk about it. Mainly, because I saw it as a lose-lose conversation or a win-lose conversation.  In converstations like that, I don’t want to be the winner or loser.  I want it to be win-win, or an intelligent discussion of the ways to find out what the Make a Wish covers, and also an acknowledgement of the intent. If I were in depression, I may not have been as internally comfortable about how I handled it.  I was at peace after I set the boundary, event though my sister was frustrated and tried to get me to participate more in the conversation. She also has a young daughter.  During the weekend she said "Kevin!!! Shannon has hair spray in her hand, you "should" have closed the bathroom door".  I said "Sure, no problem, I will be happy to do that in the future.  I just need to be informed of these things and you hadn’t let me know to do that".  She said yes, I know I did because I told Randy (my brother).  (as if someone else is evidence that she told me).  I left it as a final "I don’t believe you told me otherwise I would have gladly complied, but I’ll be sure to do it in the future". It’s almost like the meds have taken the power out of the "excuses" depression makes me vulnerable to (I’m too tired; it’ll never work; I’m not good enough) and the healthier thoughts I’ve been planting all along in therapy, etc. have a chance to actually be heard — by me.

YES.  *This* is what meds (IMO) are good for.  The depression support group I go to says this too, and this is my experience.  For me, the meds put me in a state where I’m more willing to remember and apply the healthy thoughts from therapy and other sources, and it also makes therapy more effective — instead of always dealing with depression in therapy and "dysthymia-struggles" (to coin a term), it can get to dealing more in the soluiton. Of course, it could all be placebo effect, too.  At this point I really don’t care.  : )  Just wondered what you guys have experienced?

I don’t think it’s the placebo effect.  After years of taking meds, not taking them when I was supposed to, forgetting to take them, not taking them as prescribed, taking them while drinking, I eventually had a lot of empirical data that leads me to believe, for me anyway, that the meds do help a lot.  I have been taking them as prescribed, except for Klonopin which I choose to take as needed because I know how addictive it can be. Betsy

Another point about meds.  Sometimes it takes a loooong time to find a good match, or the right meds (not to mention a good psychiatrist). Right now, crossing fingers, the combination of 150mg of Effexor XR, with 50mg Zoloft recently re-added (because I was proactive and contacted the psychiatrist), occasional use of Klonopin as needed, and 50-100mg of Trazodone for sleeping (I almost always take 50mg) works very well.  Today, I can honestly say I feel "normal" (just for today).  Maybe a little depressed and sad, but at least functional. About the placebo effect.  I wonder whether the full spectrum lights and the SAD lights have a placebo effect for me.  I don’t care.  All I know is that after a long day at work under my full spectrum light, when I go out into the dark winter here, I almost feel like I had a day of sunshine and the dark night seems more natural.  So, the lighting helps also. Kevin P.S. — thanks for your recent e-mail Betsy, I’ll try to get back to you (and a few others who’ve e-mailed in the last few weeks, some of whom I haven’t heard from in a while)

Response:

For those of you who are on antidepressants, what different sorts of experiences have you had that show they’re working? We’re all taught to recognize such symptoms of depression as deep sadness, lack of energy, apathy, etc.  In the 3 weeks I’ve been taking meds for dysthymia (low grade chronic depression), these things, to the less profound degree I’ve felt them, have cleared up.  But a more noticeable difference for me is a greater ability/willingness to be open and honest with my feelings *before* a fuse gets lit — I don’t keep from speaking up and let things fester so much.  Then a problem can be resolved when it’s still small, and my feelings stay more neutral during and after the resolution.  It’s weird.  : ) Two of the lesser-talked-about symptoms of depression are persistent feelings of low self-worth and guilt.  I’m not saying that antidepressants are the cure-all for these feelings, but I wonder if the meds are helping to relieve some of these feelings in me so that speaking up is a more tolerable option now? It’s almost like the meds have taken the power out of the "excuses" depression makes me vulnerable to (I’m too tired; it’ll never work; I’m not good enough) and the healthier thoughts I’ve been planting all along in therapy, etc. have a chance to actually be heard — by me. Of course, it could all be placebo effect, too.  At this point I really don’t care.  : )  Just wondered what you guys have experienced? Betsy

Response:

– Lack of energy, replaced by just the ability to get out of bed and in the shower in order to make it to work on time.  Feeling rested after a normal nights sleep, instead of wanting to sleep all day.

I’ve stopped taking 3-4 hour naps on the weekends.  : )  There’s all sorts of stuff to do when you look for it. I’ve noticed that I tend to be able to resolve things in a more tactful appropriate manner sooner when I’m doing well on antidepressants.  One concern that I have is that one of the meds I take is Klonopin, and it gives me what I would consider an artificial self confidence and changes my personality in ways that I’m more laid back and I’ve noticed that people respond very positively to that.

Is it an antianxiety med?  It’s interesting that you say it feels like an artificial self-confidence.  Does that mean that anxiety feels natural for you??  I don’t quite know how to respond, except that you seem to be staying self-aware about your use of it and that’s a good thing. I think this goes back to speaking up — that can help relieve guilt. If you’re feeling less depressed and good about yourself in general, it’s easier to brush off someone else’s inappropriate guilt feelings.

Exactly.  And the low self-esteem, that also leads to not speaking up or even counting my needs and feelings as important enough to bother dealing with. It’s a sort of self-sustaining loop in depression, apathy/low self-worth/lethargy. Regarding the incident with your sister, she sounds more than a little stressed-out herself.  : )  But you handled her very well! It’s almost like the meds have taken the power out of the "excuses" depression makes me vulnerable to (I’m too tired; it’ll never work; I’m not good enough) and the healthier thoughts I’ve been planting all along in therapy, etc. have a chance to actually be heard — by me. YES.  *This* is what meds (IMO) are good for.  The depression support group I go to says this too, and this is my experience.

You don’t know how encouraging it is to hear this, Kevin. One of the worst things about chronic depression is that little by little, year by year, you’re just resigning yourself to the fact that this is what life feels like.  You don’t even think it CAN be different.  It’s such a relief to know there’s something that can actually help.  And yet, I don’t feel as if the meds are "doing" it to me, I feel like I’m the one making the choices and changing my behavior.  I don’t think it’s the placebo effect.  After years of taking meds, not taking them when I was supposed to, forgetting to take them, not taking them as prescribed, taking them while drinking, I eventually had a lot of empirical data that leads me to believe, for me anyway, that the meds do help a lot.  I have been taking them as prescribed, except for Klonopin which I choose to take as needed because I know how addictive it can be.

Thank you so much for sharing your experience, it really is valuable to me. You’ve been around the block with this and I know you speak from experience. Happy New Year! Betsy

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Shanon, How is it different that I am using a drug to alter the way I feel in somewhat the same way that they are using drugs to alter the way that they feel. -)  You are being monitored by a professional throughout the complete period of taking your "drugs" — your friends are not. -)  You are being prescribed the correct dosage of your "drug" — your friends not. -)  Your friends may become addicted to their drugs — you are *very* unlikely to become addicted to yours.

I agree with you completely.  I’m not a chemist, so when I was using pot all those years I really had no idea exactly what dosage I needed to obtain the feeling I wanted.  And I didn’t want to alleviate a painful condition, I wanted to obtain a high. The partnership with one and maybe two professionals, if you have a therapist, makes treatment with meds for depression a vastly different experience than chasing a high with street drugs. Betsy

Response:

Shanon, How is it different that I am using a drug to alter the way I feel in somewhat the same way that they are using drugs to alter the way that they feel.

-)  You are being monitored by a professional throughout the complete period of taking your "drugs" — your friends are not. -)  You are being prescribed the correct dosage of your "drug" — your friends not. -)  Your friends may become addicted to their drugs — you are *very* unlikely to become addicted to yours. Yes, medicine can also be a "drug" and basically humans can become addicted to almost anything, I think. Drugs have been widely used since the beginning of mankind. Weren’t it the Maya who used leaves of the coke plant to enhance their bodily capabilities?? The main difference between the drug known as medicine and what people think of as "real" drugs is that there is a safety/precaution variable included — your doc. If you’re self-medicating yourself its drug abuse and may lead to dependency. At least I think of it that way. Hope that helped. Pete ;O) — ~ But if you’re in the eye of storm. Think of the lonely dove. The experience of survival is the key. To the gravitiy of love. ~ -Enigma

Response:

Since I have started Paxil, I have noticed so many positive effects.. First of all, my anxiety level has plummetted  - thank God!!  Secondly, my need to complete everything in order has subsided a little bit, I no longer panic if I don’t follow a schedule  or stick to an exact plan.  My depression has gotten so much better as well, I still feel bad sometimes, but nothing how I used to feel. But, then I wonder if this is a good thing.  I mean, I have friends who do drugs like pot and ecstacy – they say that the drugs make them happy – ecstacy makes them feel empathetic and like they have a connection with people.  Pot makes them calm, helps them concentrate, takes the edge off of their angry dispositions.  So I’m wondering, how am I different from them in my own use of Paxil?  How is it different that I am using a drug to alter the way I feel in somewhat the same way that they are using drugs to alter the way that they feel.  The only difference is that my drugs are legal.   I guess I’m rambling.. Shanon

Response:

For those of you who are on antidepressants, what different sorts of experiences have you had that show they’re working?

I am able to sleep.  I am able to not obsess about things, to let things go, to go to work.  I am able to eat better without so much worry that I will wake up the next morning weighting a ton.  When I have gone off my antidepressants the first thing I notice returning is my anxiety, which results in insomnia and obsessive compulsive behaviors.  I have gone off and back on many times against medical advise, and I know that they help me tremendously.  When I am off, I crash so bad.  Love Kal

Response:

i am not as reactive emotionally. but in a good way.  i can still cry and i do feel anger, but its not rage anymore.

What a relief this must be.  I have had flashes of rage throughout the years, for me I think they’re related to unrelenting depression.   it has slowed my mind down.  my mind used to race so fast , i talked fast, etc.  now i am more even keeled.  it has helped me to sleep better and longer.  which is wonderful considering my history of insomnia.  and i am more positive thinking now, i dont get so down on myself and i dont feel hopeless. i look for solutions to problems now and it helps to keep my chin up

but you’re an important part of ase-d for me. You are not your struggles, you are the person inside and I just wanted to let you know I see you.  : ) Happy New Year! Betsy

Response:

Question:

Hello: I am an ultradian rapid cycler who happens to be hypomanic now. In the next five minutes???? Feel free to reply or email so that we can share experiences. Darren. — — — "Nullum illgetium prandium!" ICQ# 31191600

Response:

Hello: I am an ultradian rapid cycler who happens to be hypomanic now. In the next five minutes???? Feel free to reply or email so that we can share experiences. Darren. — — — "Nullum illgetium prandium!" ICQ# 31191600

Is this possible? My therapist said I was scientifically unable to swing that fast. I am no longer seeing that therapist (or anybody else right now) and would like some information. Lady V

Response:

I am a rapid cycler, and after a year of trying different meds, I am on a cocktail that works: 1000mgs of Tegretol daily, 6mgs of Risperadal, 1mg of Klonopin, and 10mgs of Prozac, prozac every other day.  I am an extreme rapid cycler (can cycle in the same hour!) and have been through enough this past year.  I am also seasonal.  Fall depression, spring mania.  I have finally found some peace.  Good luck to you.  Veronica

Response:

I am a rapid cycler, and after a year of trying different meds, I am on a cocktail that works: 1000mgs of Tegretol daily, 6mgs of Risperadal, 1mg of Klonopin, and 10mgs of Prozac, prozac every other day.  I am an extreme rapid cycler (can cycle in the same hour!) and have been through enough this past year.  I am also seasonal.  Fall depression, spring mania.  I have finally found some peace.  Good luck to you.  Veronica

Great news on success stories is always encouraging.  We have lots of rapids here (gee, advanced level water rapids just came to mind as similar),  I get the feeling that most who are, would prefer not to be…..my feeling is that rapid is better for me than anything horrible that would last months.  Also, since so rapid and breakthru hypomanic every few days (at least) I can’t complain about the SSRI’s bad affect on sex life.  The hypomania push is stronger than the drug side effect of long long long long (why even bother) plateau to orgasm. best regards from julie

Response:

yep i sure am ….. is it any wonder that my favorite toy is Bouncing Tigger …boing boing boing….

Response:

Oh, Ralph!  LOVE you! Some BP vanity plates….                                 I M NUTZ                                 HI LO                                 UP DOWN                                 KING worm                                 FUN E FARM

—Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.—

Response:

Not a good idea, keep letting them play with the meds. I work hard at ‘tuning into" my rapid cycling when it happens. Sometimes I can, sometimes I can’t. I have also had great success by eliminating stress where I can. Cheers! Alan P.S. I absolutely HATE it when I am in mixed states and up for 15 minutes, then down for 15. Your meds must be at least limiting the range you have to deal with. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – They work for a while 3-4months and than they fail – a very vicious cycle. Been really depressed past few weeks – kind of dead just watching life pass me by.  If i wasn’t the single Mom of a 14yr old I throw in the bag.  Sometimes I feel like saying the hell with all the meds – since I cycle anyway when I am on them maybe I should just strap in and take the ride drugless.  I don’t know sorry for venting.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello: I am an ultradian rapid cycler who happens to be hypomanic now. In the next five minutes???? Feel free to reply or email so that we can share experiences. Darren. — — — "Nullum illgetium prandium!" ICQ# 31191600 Is this possible? My therapist said I was scientifically unable to swing that fast. I am no longer seeing that therapist (or anybody else right now) and would like some information. Lady V

My mood can swing from normal to deeply depressed or significantly hypo (or the other way) in less than an hour. But it more often takes about 12 hours.  I am fascinated by this. How rapid is rapid? jackie Web page at http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/town/close/xhq10/mem.htm I’ve been Jay H, Canarybird, Empty Cage, Serin, Phoenix, even Crow. Let’s see if I can stick with this one for a while.

Response:

I’ve been through a variety of meds, too effexor, wellbutrin, depakote. prozac, all with only temporary success. the only mood stabilizer the doc is interested in trying is depakote, and that only helps with the super highs Rapid cycling is a pain because i’m never quite sure how long any given mood is going to last.  It could be weeks or months.  Just to let you know you’re not alone. —

Response:

I was rapid cycling. Lithium stopped it. i take lithium and prozac, but i dont think the prozac is working yet.. it’s supposed to take 2-3 weeks or something. Anyway, i dont think that i’ll always be rapid cycling, it was the onset of my illness, and i read somewhere that females (more than males) are more prone to rapid cycling, and that it can occur at the beginning of an illness. ok,im done molly – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was diaganosed with  rapid cycling bipolar in Oct. of 98. And since then have been thru a list of different drugs that would shock any pharmasist. first synthroid because they thought it was a thyroid problem. then pamelor, tofranil,paxil, wellbutrin, zoloft, effexor, remeron, buspar, mellarill, zyprexa, depakota, klonopin, tegretol, lithium, serzone, xanax all mixed  into diffirnent cocktails but none that has brought me any peace. i see a physiciatrist, a therapist, and a case manager at a community phsyciatric center. my family, bless their souls , have rode the roller coaster of my exsistance with unwaving strength. but now i am  search for others who understand in a way that they can’t, because only we know the battle that rages in our minds, the battle for our prescious(sp?) sanity. if you know of my battles please share with me. we all should  be allies against the demons that tear at our minds , and rip our lives away from us.

Response:

Hi: I’m a rapid cycler myself.  I’m also an aerobics instructor (well that’s what they say I am:).  I agree exercise does help, but I’m still having problems.  Of course I haven’t exactly been good about taking my meds so I’m probably not a good example.  I too have even worse symptoms during PMS (which I now have).  My prob is that the meds I’m taking (Depakote and Paxil) make extremely (yawn) lethargic.  I just now started taking my Depakote again (after taking myself off of it) so we’ll see how it goes.  I seem to be even worse with no meds whatsover after a while so I’m trying to hang in there and let it work. If you ever need to vent, please feel free to write, I could use some friends, especially during times like these. Cat (who has no idea what to use for coreagraphy for her next aerobics class:) Has exercise helped? I’m attempting to quit smoking (notice the attempting), and I can tell you that as a rapid cycler myself, exercise has been my salvation. My pdoc and I disagree on what the result of the meds should be. He wants no mood swings, I want to actually be awake. Anyway, and then there is pms week, which I think serves as a reminder to me of why I’m on meds. So, when too much stress, I still freak out, but in spurts. Anyway, exercising helps that, to relieve my stress. Alex

—Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.—

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Some BP vanity plates….                                 I M NUTZ                                 HI LO                                 UP DOWN                                 KING worm                                 FUN E FARM

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey Katnip! Me three!!! My car license is up for renewal on my birthday – July 1st, Canada Day. I grew up thinking that the fireworks and celebration were for me! What a letdown when I found out the truth. Anyway, I’m thinking of getting vanity plates that read "URC BP2". It would be kind of like the secret handshake among Masons, don’t you think? Anybody have any other suggestions for Bipolar plates? My SO wants me to get BPBEAR cause she calls me her big Bipolar Bear. Awwwwww! This is a really tough time of the year for us RC’s. Hang in there. Peace, GaryO Hi: I’m a rapid cycler myself.  I’m also an aerobics instructor (well that’s what they say I am:).  I agree exercise does help, but I’m still having problems.  Of course I haven’t exactly been good about taking my meds so I’m probably not a good example.  I too have even worse symptoms during PMS (which I now have).  My prob is that the meds I’m taking (Depakote and Paxil) make extremely (yawn) lethargic.  I just now started taking my Depakote again (after taking myself off of it) so we’ll see how it goes.  I seem to be even worse with no meds whatsover after a while so I’m trying to hang in there and let it work. If you ever need to vent, please feel free to write, I could use some friends, especially during times like these. Cat (who has no idea what to use for coreagraphy for her next aerobics class:) Has exercise helped? I’m attempting to quit smoking (notice the attempting), and I can tell you that as a rapid cycler myself, exercise has been my salvation. My pdoc and I disagree on what the result of the meds should be. He wants no mood swings, I want to actually be awake. Anyway, and then there is pms week, which I think serves as a reminder to me of why I’m on meds. So, when too much stress, I still freak out, but in spurts. Anyway, exercising helps that, to relieve my stress. Alex —Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.—

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You bet. I’m thinking of changing my nick to Bouncing Ball. jackie Web page at http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/town/close/xhq10/mem.htm I’ve been Jay H, Canarybird, Empty Cage, Serin, Phoenix, even Crow. Let’s see if I can stick with this one for a while.

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Just my opinion… from Oct of 98 to to May of 99 hardly seems like enough time to have given all of those meds enough chance to work their magic..??? peace – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was diaganosed with  rapid cycling bipolar in Oct. of 98. And since then have been thru a list of different drugs that would shock any pharmasist. first synthroid because they thought it was a thyroid problem. then pamelor, tofranil,paxil, wellbutrin, zoloft, effexor, remeron, buspar, mellarill, zyprexa, depakota, klonopin, tegretol, lithium, serzone, xanax all mixed  into diffirnent cocktails but none that has brought me any peace. i see a physiciatrist, a therapist, and a case manager at a community phsyciatric center. my family, bless their souls , have rode the roller coaster of my exsistance with unwaving strength. but now i am  search for others who understand in a way that they can’t, because only we know the battle that rages in our minds, the battle for our prescious(sp?) sanity. if you know of my battles please share with me. we all should  be allies against the demons that tear at our minds , and rip our lives away from us.

—Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.—

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yes and i am sick of it, nothing helps lny

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Hey there !! I am a rapid cycler..ultra rapid that is… anyway, I am on lamictal and it is a total life saver, you may want to try it.  I feel good mentally and physically now… I been on the whole gamut too, those meds did me no good either.  Also, lamictal is supposed to work very well for rapid cyclers.  I know that in the past there were a few people that posted to me when I first started on it and they said they were on it and that they were doing wonderfully, I didnt get any negative responses. I dont cycle anymore but I sure do have my moments, you know those moments you could cause more damage in a house than a tornado could?  :)  But I am able to control myself a lot better than I used to, it is as though I have some semblance of reason when I get those feelings. Anna

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I too have been working with this "moody personality" as it was origionally called for four years.  I have been thru almost as many treatments as you. Sept 98′ I was finally diagnosed with Bipolar II.  And as recently as Tuesday as dysphoric mania to boot.  My husband and children are struggling to understand it, but I can’t seem to describe it accurately.  I feel for you because if anyone has to go thru what I do on a DAILY basis, I wish them luck.

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Have you read "An unquiet mind?" Good book, if you get past how "great" she is (maybe I was just in a bad mood). My parents read it, and were like, you felt that way (or feel). Hang in there! Alex

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As a relative "newbie" here, what is "rapid cycling"?  What makes that different from "normal" cycling if there is such a thing?  … I take it that "rapid cycling" doesn’t involve the tour de france vs. a slow bicycle ride around the block Thanks, — Kevin White, Software Engineer – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was diaganosed with  rapid cycling bipolar in Oct. of 98. And since then have been thru a list of different drugs that would shock any pharmasist. first synthroid because they thought it was a thyroid problem. then pamelor, tofranil,paxil, wellbutrin, zoloft, effexor, remeron, buspar, mellarill, zyprexa, depakota, klonopin, tegretol, lithium, serzone, xanax all mixed into diffirnent cocktails but none that has brought me any peace. i see a physiciatrist, a therapist, and a case manager at a community phsyciatric center. my family, bless their souls , have rode the roller coaster of my exsistance with unwaving strength. but now i am  search for others who understand in a way that they can’t, because only we know the battle that rages in our minds, the battle for our prescious(sp?) sanity. if you know of my battles please share with me. we all should  be allies against the demons that tear at our minds , and rip our lives away from us.

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Hi LADYREB, I was diaganosed with  rapid cycling bipolar in Oct. of 98. And since then have been thru a list of different drugs that would shock any pharmasist. first synthroid because they thought it was a thyroid problem. then pamelor, tofranil,paxil, wellbutrin, zoloft, effexor, remeron, buspar, mellarill, zyprexa, depakota, klonopin, tegretol, lithium, serzone, xanax all mixed  into diffirnent cocktails but none that has brought me any peace.

Unfortunately that is common for some of us <sigh. i see a physiciatrist, a therapist, and a case manager at a community phsyciatric center. my family, bless their souls , have rode the roller coaster of my exsistance with unwaving strength. but now i am  search for others who understand in a way that they can’t, because only we know the battle that rages in our minds, the battle for our prescious(sp?) sanity. if you know of my battles please share with me. we all should  be allies against the demons that tear at our minds , and rip our lives away from us.

Having been there…persistence and patience, which is sometimes difficult for me (understatement), I have to force myself to put one foot in front of the other (literally that can be a challenge since I have Multiple Sclerosis Yours,

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His goal is not realistic. To have no mood swings at all, you must be drugged into oblivion. A better goal is to have <manageable mood swings. I guess that is harder for the doctor to manage. Stand firm on this one! And good luck quitting the smokes. I just started Wellbutrin, I hope that will help me. Keith – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My pdoc and I disagree on what the result of the meds should be. He wants no mood swings, I want to actually be awake.

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I was diaganosed with  rapid cycling bipolar in Oct. of 98. And since then have been thru a list of different drugs that would shock any pharmasist. first synthroid because they thought it was a thyroid problem. then pamelor, tofranil,paxil, wellbutrin, zoloft, effexor, remeron, buspar, mellarill, zyprexa, depakota, klonopin, tegretol, lithium, serzone, xanax all mixed  into diffirnent cocktails but none that has brought me any peace. i see a physiciatrist, a therapist, and a case manager at a community phsyciatric center. my family, bless their souls , have rode the roller coaster of my exsistance with unwaving strength. but now i am  search for others who understand in a way that they can’t, because only we know the battle that rages in our minds, the battle for our prescious(sp?) sanity. if you know of my battles please share with me. we all should  be allies against the demons that tear at our minds , and rip our lives away from us.

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They work for a while 3-4months and than they fail – a very vicious cycle. Been really depressed past few weeks – kind of dead just watching life pass me by.  If i wasn’t the single Mom of a 14yr old I throw in the bag.  Sometimes I feel like saying the hell with all the meds – since I cycle anyway when I am on them maybe I should just strap in and take the ride drugless.  I don’t know sorry for venting.

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Has exercise helped? I’m attempting to quit smoking (notice the attempting), and I can tell you that as a rapid cycler myself, exercise has been my salvation. My pdoc and I disagree on what the result of the meds should be. He wants no mood swings, I want to actually be awake. Anyway, and then there is pms week, which I think serves as a reminder to me of why I’m on meds. So, when too much stress, I still freak out, but in spurts. Anyway, exercising helps that, to relieve my stress. Alex

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You haven’t tried Neurontin or Lamictal, both of which have a good reputation with rapid cycling. There are some more that you haven’t tried, but I recommend you ask about N&L first. Keith – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I was diaganosed with  rapid cycling bipolar in Oct. of 98. And since then have been thru a list of different drugs that would shock any pharmasist. first synthroid because they thought it was a thyroid problem. then pamelor, tofranil,paxil, wellbutrin, zoloft, effexor, remeron, buspar, mellarill, zyprexa, depakota, klonopin, tegretol, lithium, serzone, xanax all mixed  into diffirnent cocktails but none that has brought me any peace. i see a physiciatrist, a therapist, and a case manager at a community phsyciatric center. my family, bless their souls , have rode the roller coaster of my exsistance with unwaving strength. but now i am  search for others who understand in a way that they can’t, because only we know the battle that rages in our minds, the battle for our prescious(sp?) sanity. if you know of my battles please share with me. we all should  be allies against the demons that tear at our minds , and rip our lives away from us.

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Audrey– Ditto— until I cut out the aspartame- and started the vitamins ect– I was the world’s worst…. now– I have about an evening– and then I am pretty equananimous (sp)… no offense taken Richie

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LOL– well I forget that sometimes people don’t know what gender I am….. no offense taken– but with a DD in the boob department- ya bet I am all female— <<g ( I am thrilled to report that they are getting smaller though!!) Knowing what to do for ourselves and doing it are two different things– I am rushing headlong into TOM and noticeing( sp) that my temper is flaring— now where did I put those ruddy supplements…… I get mail that is  "Mr" all the time– infact in the early 70’s I even got a draft notice from uncle sam– my mom called and they decided I didn’t need to take the physical…..lol richie who is fighting TOM  tooth and nail— I want to see that first 50 GONE

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I think I’m going to down a gallon of chamomile tea, just to get rid of the stress of never knowing these days when TOM is going to show up. Hasn’t been around for almost a year, and 2 weeks into lcing, here it is! Anyone got any magic potions for keeping it away? I liked it gone! LOL! (Yeah, I know…the most magic of all potions–getting a little bit older and it’ll stay gone permanently <grin). CAT 248/237/135

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : Aspartame– do you use it?  It and caffine are notorious culprits in making PMS : worse.. Add more B vitimins– especially b-6 and b-12– Evening primrose/borage : oil– good helpers– : and nothing like some cammomile tea to help relax you. : Richie no offense, but if Richie is short for Richard, you really have no way to understand what we’re talking about here… Chamomile tea doesn’t relax anyone suffering from these kinds of symptoms.  Maybe tequila, but not tea.  ;-) anyway, I was hoping to hear from some women who had some success with certain supplements… audrey 170/143/130?        *  when the going gets weird, -dams at voicenet.com      *    the weird turn pro… (remove ‘nospam’)         *         -raoul duke Actually Richie is a girl, and she is also correct about the chamomile tea. Chamomile helps with my cramps and lessens the pain. Also I stay away from caffeine while on TOM because they make my symptoms about 10 times worse…. Tricia "Rae" 158/142/120 There is only one success – to be able to spend your life in your own way.      ~~ Anonymous~~

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Thanks, Tammy, I know all about that, since I’ve been using ibuprofen (specifically Motrin 800 mg.) for over 13 years. I was more concerned with the damage to my kidneys, since it can also cause damage there. By the way, have you read any of the new research that has found ulcers to be caused by bacteria, rather than stress and/or medications, and cured with the use of both acid reducers and antibiotics? This doesn’t really apply to ulcers caused by overuse of NSAIDs, but it was of interest to me, since the last ulcer I had was treated by my doctor with anti-stress meds (over 20 years ago). CAT 248/237/135 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In article et, I’ve just about lived on Motrin for over 15 years, and I think as long as you take it with food, it’s not particular about what kind of food. Unless I’m mistaken, you just need something in your stomach when you take it to keep it from boring a hole through your stomach lining, and any kind of food will work, so wouldn’t necessarily have to be bread or milk. Meat should work, too, I’d think. At least it does for me. The father of a friend of my daughter’s just spent 2 days in the hospital and lost four pints of blood (and nearly died) to a bleeding ulcer……the culprit?  Ibuprophin.  He was taking 3 at a time for back pain, often on an empty stomach and sometimes taking aspirin as well.  Just a word of warning to be careful with the long time use or overuse of any NSAIDs. Tammy PP since 7/8/98 212/196/138 (or size 12, whichever comes first)  bf 49.5/49/23% (had to change my stats now that I’ve got my new Tanita Scale I’ll take a double bacon cheeseburger with no bun please.

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LOL! I got one of those, too, richie, from having my h.s. transcript listed under my initials instead of full name (V.J.B., instead of Victoria J.)…but the idiots at the draft board, in their infinite wisdom, made me go all the way to the induction center for the physical!!! Of course, being the only female in the middle of about 70 guys on the bus (and then more than 500 at the center) made for a very interesting day trip up to Amarillo! LOL! CAT

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -LOL– well I forget that sometimes people don’t know what gender I am….. no offense taken– but with a DD in the boob department- ya bet I am all female— <<g ( I am thrilled to report that they are getting smaller though!!) Knowing what to do for ourselves and doing it are two different things– I am rushing headlong into TOM and noticeing( sp) that my temper is flaring— now where did I put those ruddy supplements…… I get mail that is  "Mr" all the time– infact in the early 70’s I even got a draft notice from uncle sam– my mom called and they decided I didn’t need to take the physical…..lol richie who is fighting TOM  tooth and nail— I want to see that first 50 GONE

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Richie – I’m SOOOO sorry!!  Guess you do get that a lot. Just makes me nuts when guys – even well-intentioned ones – try to give me advice on problems like these I’ve been using ibuprofen since before it was available OTC for cramps – still use 600mg  most of the time, too, and that’s not something that feels worse these days… It’s the irritability, mood swings & bloating. I’ve actually added some legal 15-ish g. treats lately because my life is very stressful at the moment and it just helps – maybe I need to time those!  (our house is for sale…dealing with being neat & clean & showable 24×7 is the worst…especially for someone who works 40+ hours a week outside of the house, as well as all that needs doing inside!) Past couple months, after adding some extra carb treats & watching the calendar, I’ve noticed I lose 2-3 lbs. right after my TOM, and then stop losing no matter waht for the 10-14 days preceeding & during.  Soon as it’s done, whoosh, 2 more lbs. down… This time I’ll try some more legal treats and some strong chamomile tea!  Glad I don’t have to live with me audrey 170/143/130?

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Victoria, I’ve just about lived on Motrin for over 15 years, and I think as long as you take it with food, it’s not particular about what kind of food. Unless I’m mistaken, you just need something in your stomach when you take it to keep it from boring a hole through your stomach lining, and any kind of food will work, so wouldn’t necessarily have to be bread or milk. Meat should work, too, I’d think. At least it does for me. CAT 248/237/135

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hi there,    When I have my TOM, I have to take motrin to reduce the awful cramps and the Motrin doesn’t work well unless I take it with food.  In the middle of the night I run into problems, because for years I have taken it with milk and bread.  I am at day 60 of Atkins, have lost 20 pounds, and don’t want my weight loss to stall.  I hear about Wasa crackers- are they low in carb? Maybe that would be an idea? Victoria 192-172-150 lc since 7-8-98

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For cramps, however, I would mix 1 tsp chamomile with 1 tsp catnip, let that steep for 10 minutes…and if that doesn’t work, try valerian.

Ack! valerian root smells like perfumed manure! The cats love it, though.  I give them some when they get too rowdy at night. Personally, I’ll stick with ibuprofen for the cramps. I’d need a damned strong herb to put a dent in them. (and in my experience, a name brand like Motrin or Advil dissolves and starts working at least a half hour faster than cheap generic ibuprofen….must be the coatings and fillers) —                 "There’s a seeker born every minute."

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I agree with you, Jamie, although for my arthritis, I’ve even given up on Advil. Now I take 800mg Motrin, and I usually take 3-4 of them at a time.

I’ve had almost no arthritis symptoms since lowcarbing, but I generally went for naproxen when I did, (despite its tendency to bore holes in a stomach less than full). —                 "There’s a seeker born every minute."

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Hi there,     When I have my TOM, I have to take motrin to reduce the awful cramps and the Motrin doesn’t work well unless I take it with food.  In the middle of the night I run into problems, because for years I have taken it with milk and bread.  I am at day 60 of Atkins, have lost 20 pounds, and don’t want my weight loss to stall.  I hear about Wasa crackers- are they low in carb? Maybe that would be an idea? Victoria 192-172-150 lc since 7-8-98

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : Aspartame– do you use it?  It and caffine are notorious culprits in making PMS : worse.. Add more B vitimins– especially b-6 and b-12– Evening primrose/borage : oil– good helpers– : and nothing like some cammomile tea to help relax you.   : Richie no offense, but if Richie is short for Richard, you really have no way to understand what we’re talking about here… Chamomile tea doesn’t relax anyone suffering from these kinds of symptoms.  Maybe tequila, but not tea.  ;-) anyway, I was hoping to hear from some women who had some success with certain supplements… audrey 170/143/130?        *  when the going gets weird, -dams at voicenet.com      *    the weird turn pro… (remove ‘nospam’)         *         -raoul duke

Actually Richie is a girl, and she is also correct about the chamomile tea. Chamomile helps with my cramps and lessens the pain. Also I stay away from caffeine while on TOM because they make my symptoms about 10 times worse…. Tricia "Rae" 158/142/120 There is only one success – to be able to spend your life in your own way.       ~~ Anonymous~~

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This PMS thing and low-carbing is driving me bananas!  After my induction period and a weight loss of 10 lbs, I regained 1 lb. – even while remaining low-carb and exercising 4x per week. I don’t want to sabatoge this thing, but the carbs are calling and my temper is flaring.  I’ve never had this problem before.  Heck, I used to swear I didn’t suffer from PMS. St. John’s Wort has been mentioned here a few times, but I’ve heard leary reports about it lately.  What else will help? Desperate AJ 250/240/150 (Sunday) 250/241/150 (today )

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Aspartame– do you use it?  It and caffine are notorious culprits in making PMS worse.. Add more B vitimins– especially b-6 and b-12– Evening primrose/borage oil– good helpers– and nothing like some cammomile tea to help relax you.   Hope this helps Richie

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writes: Any of you out there having a similar problem, and found any "solution" other than just dealing with it?  I’m not into experimenting with herbal remedies that may interfere with my weight loss, so figured I’d ask here!

off this morning!) I just saw something on the news about calcium and PMS.  Heard it late to help me this month, but I’m going to try upping my calcium intake (supplements) for next couple of months and see if that helps.  I don’t really like this stranger living in my brain for over a week! Tammy PP since 7/8/98 212/196/138 (or size 12, whichever comes first)  bf 49.5/49/23% (had to change my stats now that I’ve got my new Tanita Scale I’ll take a double bacon cheeseburger with no bun please.

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: Aspartame– do you use it?  It and caffine are notorious culprits in making PMS : worse.. Add more B vitimins– especially b-6 and b-12– Evening primrose/borage : oil– good helpers– : and nothing like some cammomile tea to help relax you.   : Richie no offense, but if Richie is short for Richard, you really have no way to understand what we’re talking about here… Chamomile tea doesn’t relax anyone suffering from these kinds of symptoms.  Maybe tequila, but not tea.  ;-) anyway, I was hoping to hear from some women who had some success with certain supplements… audrey 170/143/130?        *  when the going gets weird, -dams at voicenet.com      *    the weird turn pro…  (remove ‘nospam’)         *         -raoul duke

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: no offense, but if Richie is short for Richard, you really have Er…Richie’s a gal. =) : Chamomile tea doesn’t relax anyone suffering from these kinds of : symptoms.  Maybe tequila, but not tea.  ;-) I agree, chamomile has never helped me, but I was raised by a mom who believed Medication was the answer to everything and all herbal remedies have failed me. My body’s just too resisitant to the more subtle forms of healing. =) BUT I know lots of other girls for whom it works fine. : anyway, I was hoping to hear from some women who had some : success with certain supplements… Try the extra carbs. I waited until the week _after_ my TOM to start induction just because I suspected this might be a problem. I’m not a fan of taking supplements unless it’s a last resort. Of course, this is probably due to my theory "If you can solve a problem by eating, do so." Lydia 145/137/126 — Lydia Ash                         /       I don’t want the world. http://falcon.cc.ukans.edu/~ash /

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Audrey– A lot of us gals have problems with TOM…(a recent poster called it a visit from Aunt Flo. Loved that!). I’ve been on the pill and regular as clockwork for ten years. This WOE changed all that. Sometimes I’m early, sometimes I’m late. Usually the flow is heavier, whenever it arrives. I do need more carbs the week before (sometimes, but not as often, during). My solution: I allow myself 10-15g extra carbs for just as long as I need them. The trick is being honest with yourself when you need them. And make sure they’re "legal" carbs. I don’t allow myself "bad" carbs at all, even one or two animal crackers. I make sure the carbs are what I’d eat normally, just perhaps in higher quantity. Some other legal extra carb ideas: Wasa crackers with cream cheese and diabetic jam Iced coffee with extra cream and sweetener 1/2 c blueberries with a dash of cream 1/2 c cottage cheese with 1 T diabetic jam SF pudding made with cream and water You get the idea… =) Hope that helps. Lydia 145/137/126 — Lydia Ash                         /       I don’t want the world. http://falcon.cc.ukans.edu/~ash /

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I’ve been on the pill and regular as clockwork for ten years. This WOE changed all that. Sometimes I’m early, sometimes I’m late. Usually the flow is heavier, whenever it arrives.

Copy that.  My first month on Atkins I had my cycle for a month!!!  It’s coming at it’s normal time now, but way heavier then ever before. ~Jo 141/128/115

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I agree with you, Jamie, although for my arthritis, I’ve even given up on Advil. Now I take 800mg Motrin, and I usually take 3-4 of them at a time. CAT 248/237/135 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – For cramps, however, I would mix 1 tsp chamomile with 1 tsp catnip, let that steep for 10 minutes…and if that doesn’t work, try valerian. Ack! valerian root smells like perfumed manure! The cats love it, though.  I give them some when they get too rowdy at night. Personally, I’ll stick with ibuprofen for the cramps. I’d need a damned strong herb to put a dent in them. (and in my experience, a name brand like Motrin or Advil dissolves and starts working at least a half hour faster than cheap generic ibuprofen….must be the coatings and fillers) —  "There’s a seeker born every minute."

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: Chamomile tea doesn’t relax anyone suffering from these kinds of : symptoms.  Maybe tequila, but not tea.  ;-) I agree, chamomile has never helped me, but I was raised by a mom who believed Medication was the answer to everything and all herbal remedies have failed me. My body’s just too resisitant to the more subtle forms of healing. =)

Depends are you brewing it "medicinal" strength?  If not, it won’t work. 2 teaspoons (or 2 teabags) in 8 oz. water…let steep for 10 minutes. That’s medicinal strength herbal tea.  Anything else is just a nice drink. For cramps, however, I would mix 1 tsp chamomile with 1 tsp catnip, let that steep for 10 minutes…and if that doesn’t work, try valerian. Harriet 221/211/160 **Vegetarians eat vegetables….beware humanitarians** Remove ‘carbs’ for email reply

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: no offense, but if Richie is short for Richard, you really have Er…Richie’s a gal. =) : Chamomile tea doesn’t relax anyone suffering from these kinds of : symptoms.  Maybe tequila, but not tea.  ;-) I agree, chamomile has never helped me, but I was raised by a mom who believed Medication was the answer to everything and all herbal remedies have failed me. My body’s just too resisitant to the more subtle forms of healing. =)

Chamomile makes me relax!!!  I USED to have PMS and depression like mad before low-carb.  I was on zoloft for 2 years and since starting this WOL, I stopped zoloft cold turkey and started herbal supplements (primrose oil, etc.).  Now, only 2.5 weeks into low-carb, I feel better than I have in my life.  BTW, melatonin tea is a cozy bedtime treat : Wummin~ 201/196/150 Visit my homepage:  http://www.geocities.com/~wummin

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Audrey, I noticed the same thing about PMS now that I’m low carbing – much more intense, and seems to last a bit longer.   I’ve been on St. John’s Wort for months, including pre-low carb, so obviously that isn’t helping with PMS.  I started Evening Primrose Oil and Progest Creme recently, in the hopes that these will help. Barb

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Wummin, my doc tried me on Prozac, Paxil, Zoloft, Wellbutrin, Effexor and finally Parnate, which is an MAOI and quite dangerous if taken with certain foods and/or other drugs. I finally–like you, against her advice–quit cold turkey and started using St. John’s Wort. That, combined with this WOE, has just about solved my problem with depression, from which I suffered since I was about 13. If I’d know all this then, I might have had a happier time as a teen. Of course, my grandmother is fond of telling me that IF frogs had wings, they wouldn’t hop and bump their tushes on the ground <grin. Live and learn… CAT 248/237/135 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sorry guys, but you just won’t have on clue on this one! I’ve been doing the LC WOE since early April, and am happy with my progress, energy level, lack of cravings, etc. BUT, I am painfully aware every month that my PMS’y days are much worse than they used to be.  Mood swings, irritability, the whole nine yards. Today while sitting in my kid’s dentist office, I came across two different articles on natural PMS remedies, and both mentioned _increasing_ carb intake.  Hmmm…i thought, makes sense that would be the one thing I’ve noticed, negatively, in the last few months… Other "remedies" mentioned included St. John’s Wort, Evening Primrose Oil, and other stuff that I hadn’t really heard of… Any of you out there having a similar problem, and found any "solution" other than just dealing with it?  I’m not into experimenting with herbal remedies that may interfere with my weight loss, so figured I’d ask here! audrey 170/143/130?        *  when the going gets weird, -dams at voicenet.com      *    the weird turn pro… (remove ‘nospam’)         *         -raoul duke Maybe I’m different, but I used to take zoloft before low-carbing, now I find I do not need it anymore with the new WOL.   Against the better advice of my doctor, I quit taking this med "cold turkey" and added herbals in replacement.   I have had no problems without the meds!  THANK YOU LOW CARB hahaha. I have spoken to a few people and according to them, St. John’s wort, zoloft or any herbal meds  won’t stall your weight loss, but YMMV.  I take evening primrose oil and (maybe) that’s what I think helps me do without the zoloft. If you can’t deal with the PMS symptoms, maybe you should try zoloft or some other form of relief..I understand how it is to deal with it…i did for several years, but since low-carbing, I’ve never felt better in my life…WITHOUT my zoloft. Wummin~ 201/196/150 Visit my homepage:  http://www.geocities.com/~wummin

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sorry guys, but you just won’t have on clue on this one! I’ve been doing the LC WOE since early April, and am happy with my progress, energy level, lack of cravings, etc. BUT, I am painfully aware every month that my PMS’y days are much worse than they used to be.  Mood swings, irritability, the whole nine yards. Today while sitting in my kid’s dentist office, I came across two different articles on natural PMS remedies, and both mentioned _increasing_ carb intake.  Hmmm…i thought, makes sense that would be the one thing I’ve noticed, negatively, in the last few months… Other "remedies" mentioned included St. John’s Wort, Evening Primrose Oil, and other stuff that I hadn’t really heard of… Any of you out there having a similar problem, and found any "solution" other than just dealing with it?  I’m not into experimenting with herbal remedies that may interfere with my weight loss, so figured I’d ask here! audrey 170/143/130?        *  when the going gets weird, -dams at voicenet.com      *    the weird turn pro… (remove ‘nospam’)         *         -raoul duke

Maybe I’m different, but I used to take zoloft before low-carbing, now I find I do not need it anymore with the new WOL.   Against the better advice of my doctor, I quit taking this med "cold turkey" and added herbals in replacement.   I have had no problems without the meds!  THANK YOU LOW CARB hahaha. I have spoken to a few people and according to them, St. John’s wort, zoloft or any herbal meds  won’t stall your weight loss, but YMMV.  I take evening primrose oil and (maybe) that’s what I think helps me do without the zoloft. If you can’t deal with the PMS symptoms, maybe you should try zoloft or some other form of relief..I understand how it is to deal with it…i did for several years, but since low-carbing, I’ve never felt better in my life…WITHOUT my zoloft. Wummin~ 201/196/150 Visit my homepage:  http://www.geocities.com/~wummin

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Sorry guys, but you just won’t have on clue on this one! I’ve been doing the LC WOE since early April, and am happy with my progress, energy level, lack of cravings, etc. BUT, I am painfully aware every month that my PMS’y days are much worse than they used to be.  Mood swings, irritability, the whole nine yards. Today while sitting in my kid’s dentist office, I came across       two different articles on natural PMS remedies, and both mentioned _increasing_ carb intake.  Hmmm…i thought, makes sense that would be the one thing I’ve noticed, negatively, in the last few months… Other "remedies" mentioned included St. John’s Wort, Evening Primrose Oil, and other stuff that I hadn’t really heard of… Any of you out there having a similar problem, and found any "solution" other than just dealing with it?  I’m not into experimenting with herbal remedies that may interfere with my weight loss, so figured I’d ask here! audrey 170/143/130?        *  when the going gets weird, -dams at voicenet.com      *    the weird turn pro…  (remove ‘nospam’)         *         -raoul duke

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Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The feedback here is that it works for some people, doesn’t work for a lot of others. As I understand it, Meridia is not at all chemically similar to phen/fen and does not work on the system in a similar manner — the only similarity is that it is prescribed for the same condition, obesity. As for so-called "dangerous side effects," that should be "the suspicion that there might be dangerous side effects," not so far proven in any of the studies, but still generating enormous lawsuits. What there are already lawsuits going after Meridia, too? Tell me you’re kidding, please…

When the ambulance chasers salivating with greed invaded this newsgroup right after the recall, they were looking for people to join class actions for either of the two drugs. Inasmuch as I know someone who joined such a suit "just in case" — even though she had experienced no harm from the phen/fen — I can only assume that they got some Redux users, as well. I don’t know that any suits have been filed, but I know they were trying to get them started. — Truly Donovan reply to truly at lunemere dot com

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The feedback here is that it works for some people, doesn’t work for a lot of others. As I understand it, Meridia is not at all chemically similar to phen/fen and does not work on the system in a similar manner — the only similarity is that it is prescribed for the same condition, obesity. As for so-called "dangerous side effects," that should be "the suspicion that there might be dangerous side effects," not so far proven in any of the studies, but still generating enormous lawsuits. What there are already lawsuits going after Meridia, too? Tell me you’re kidding, please… When the ambulance chasers salivating with greed invaded this newsgroup right after the recall, they were looking for people to join class actions for either of the two drugs. Inasmuch as I know someone who joined such a suit "just in case" — even though she had experienced no harm from the phen/fen — I can only assume that they got some Redux users, as well. I don’t know that any suits have been filed, but I know they were trying to get them started.

Oh, so when you were talking about "dangerous side effects" and "enormous lawsuits" above you were talking about fen/Redux, and not Meridia, right? That wasn’t clear to me. As far as I know, the statute of limitations for filing class action suits on behalf of fen/phen "victims" has expired and I know of none that have been filed on time. As to invididual suits, none of them came out in favor of the so-called "victim". To email me, remove the X

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My doctor has suggested I try the prescription Meridia.  It is similar to Phen-Fen but without the dangerous side effects.  It works at stabilizing metabolism and reducing hunger.  His current users lose an average of 4 to 10 lbs. per month depending on if they exercise and diet in addtion to the pills.

I was on it for 6 weeks.  Didn’t work worth a damn–in fact, I think I gained a few pounds. My doctor switched me to phentermine, and I’ve been losing approx 10 pounds/month–35 now since May 1. — Steve Dyer

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My doctor has suggested I try the prescription Meridia.

My doctor put me on Meridia 4 weeks ago and so far so good!  I’ve lost 15 pounds and found that I feel full without a lot of cravings.  I’m also on  1000 calorie diet and trying to exercise on my treadmill 3-4 times a week.   I’ve been on 10mg but I’ve been feeling hungry and cravings the last few days so they’ve upped my prescription to 15mg which I’ll fill tomorrow. My major side effect was dry mouth, which has abated somewhat.  I had a killer headache on the second day but none since.  My blood pressure and heart rate are monitored regularly and haven’t shown any change, but I have always had low blood pressure so I wasn’t too worried about that possibility.  I was never on Fen/Phen so I can’t compare Meridia to it.  It is definitely nice to feel full without overeating for a change!! Kim 245/230/135 ComputerSmiths Consulting, Inc.                www.compusmiths.com   — Crafting Solutions for Computers

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If you give Meridia a try, I recommend having a complete physical before starting and then monitoring your blood pressure and heart rate carefully – perhaps even daily at first! While individual responses vary, mine was not so good. It suppressed my appetite to almost zero (positive!) but heart rate and blood pressure went up a lot. I felt great for the first two days. Then on day three of taking the medication I became so nauseous and light-headed I almost passed out at work and required medical attention. I was taking the recommended starting dose of 10 mg/day. It took three days for my heart rate to return to normal. The effect on my appetite was so dramatic that I am considering trying again at 5 mg dosage or taking 10 mg only every other day or two. — Katie– I never believe anything until it’s been officially denied. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My doctor has suggested I try the prescription Meridia.  It is similar to Phen-Fen but without the dangerous side effects.  It works at stabilizing metabolism and reducing hunger.  His current users lose an average of 4 to 10 lbs. per month depending on if they exercise and diet in addtion to the pills.

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My doctor has suggested I try the prescription Meridia.  It is similar to Phen-Fen but without the dangerous side effects.  It works at stabilizing metabolism and reducing hunger.  His current users lose an average of 4 to 10 lbs. per month depending on if they exercise and diet in addtion to the pills.

The feedback here is that it works for some people, doesn’t work for a lot of others. As I understand it, Meridia is not at all chemically similar to phen/fen and does not work on the system in a similar manner — the only similarity is that it is prescribed for the same condition, obesity. As for so-called "dangerous side effects," that should be "the suspicion that there might be dangerous side effects," not so far proven in any of the studies, but still generating enormous lawsuits. — Truly Donovan reply to truly at lunemere dot com

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The feedback here is that it works for some people, doesn’t work for a lot of others. As I understand it, Meridia is not at all chemically similar to phen/fen and does not work on the system in a similar manner — the only similarity is that it is prescribed for the same condition, obesity. As for so-called "dangerous side effects," that should be "the suspicion that there might be dangerous side effects," not so far proven in any of the studies, but still generating enormous lawsuits.

What there are already lawsuits going after Meridia, too? Tell me you’re kidding, please…

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My doctor has suggested I try the prescription Meridia.  It is similar to Phen-Fen but without the dangerous side effects.  It works at stabilizing metabolism and reducing hunger.  His current users lose an average of 4 to 10 lbs. per month depending on if they exercise and diet in addtion to the pills.

I just went off Meridia after two non-effective months.  I had killer PMS while on it too– carbo/salt cravings you wouldn’t believe. My dr attributes this to the weight I already lost– says that my hormones are just working much better now. Well gee thanks hormones. I’ve gained back 7 since they took away the Fen…. and somedays I feel like I’m tottering on the edge of gaining it all back – M.

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My doctor has suggested I try the prescription Meridia.  It is similar to Phen-Fen but without the dangerous side effects.  It works at stabilizing metabolism and reducing hunger.  His current users lose an average of 4 to 10 lbs. per month depending on if they exercise and diet in addtion to the pills.

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  As I understand it, Meridia is not at all chemically similar to   phen/fen and does not work on the system in a similar manner Meridia (sibutramine) is a chemically a phenethylamine, just like Dexedrine, phentermine, fenfluramine, and Redux.  Pharmacologically, it does not work the same way as those drugs; it’s mechanism is almost identical to that of the antidepressant drug Effexor (venlafaxine).  Effexor is useless for weight loss (except as an unwanted side effect in a small number of people) and so is Meridia.

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  My doctor has suggested I try the prescription Meridia.  It is similar to   Phen-Fen but without the dangerous side effects. There’s one other difference between Meridia and phen/fen: phen/fen worked, and Meridia doesn’t. Meridia wins on one count, however: it’s more expensive than phen/fen was. I predict that Meridia will be gone within a year, not because of some terrible side effect that’s discovered, but because it simply won’t sell. It doesn’t work any better than placebo.

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Meridia (sibutramine) is a chemically a phenethylamine, just like Dexedrine, phentermine, fenfluramine, and Redux.  Pharmacologically, it does not work the same way as those drugs; it’s mechanism is almost identical to that of the antidepressant drug Effexor (venlafaxine).  Effexor is useless for weight loss (except as an unwanted side effect in a small number of people) and so is Meridia.

Although I experienced a minor decrease in appetite while taking prozac, from what I understand more people gain weight on it than actually lose weight.  Do you know whether Effexor has the same reputation for causing weight gain?  If not, perhaps it would be worth a try to see if I’m one of that small number who loses. AB

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I’ve never heard of weight gain with Effexor.  A certain percentage of people experience weight loss with it, but the weight loss isn’t very significant.  I’ve been wondering lately whether Effexor combined with phentermine might be useful.  You could end up with overstimulation, at least theoretically, but it seems like they would potentiate one another. A few years ago, Lilly was going to try to get Prozac indicated for obesity. It does seem to suppress appetite in some people, but the effect is inconsistent, and even when it works, it’s not very dramatic. The world is still waiting for a really effective pharmacotherapy for obesity.  Phen/fen really seemed to have been it for a certain number of people, but I wasn’t one of them. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Meridia (sibutramine) is a chemically a phenethylamine, just like Dexedrine, phentermine, fenfluramine, and Redux.  Pharmacologically, it does not work the same way as those drugs; it’s mechanism is almost identical to that of the antidepressant drug Effexor (venlafaxine).  Effexor is useless for weight loss (except as an unwanted side effect in a small number of people) and so is Meridia. Although I experienced a minor decrease in appetite while taking prozac, from what I understand more people gain weight on it than actually lose weight.  Do you know whether Effexor has the same reputation for causing weight gain?  If not, perhaps it would be worth a try to see if I’m one of that small number who loses. AB

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:   I’ve just begun doing web searches for info on Effexor.  Having found :   anything addressing the combination of the Effexor and Phen yet.  Anyone :   have any info/ideas? : I haven’t found anything anywhere specifically addressing the combination. : A good place to look for information on stuff like this is MedLine, which : you can get to at http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/PubMed/ Okay, thanks. : The chemical name of Effexor is venlafaxine (MedLine refers to drugs by : their chemical names). : I’ve been searching for information on the combination of venlafaxine and : phentermine lately.  If I find anything, I’ll be sure to post it. : One possible concern about this combo would definitely be blood pressure. : Effexor, like Meridia (they’re very similar drugs) can cause a sustained : increase in blood pressure.  Phentermine can increase blood pressure too, : and should be used with caution where there’s already high blood pressure. : Of course, obesity has its own health risks, and on the balance, the risks : of the drug-induced hypertension may be offset by the benefits of weight : loss.  At least, this was the argument that Knoll (makers of Meridia) made : to get their product on the market. Yes, I’m a little worried about this doctor’s attention to health-related side effects – I realized after I left his office that he hadn’t even taken my blood pressure!  I’ve been having my blood pressure read every month or so throughout all med changes (phen/fen, phen/pro, etc.), and it’s always been around 110/70, so I’m not terribly worried, but obviously I’m going to have to be the one staying on top of what side effects to be worried about. It’s hard finding a doc who is informed about the brain/body aspects of obesity, knows the meds, the possible side effects, is open-minded (doesn’t prescribe diet/exercise exclusively), knows how to listen, and is a good overall doctor…  I just recently got med insurance after doing without (stupid, I know; I kept _meaning_ to get an individual plan, but the cost was offputting) for almost 2 years.  So I’m shopping. Julie

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My doctor has suggested I try the prescription Meridia.  It is similar to Phen-Fen but without the dangerous side effects. There’s one other difference between Meridia and phen/fen: phen/fen worked, and Meridia doesn’t. Meridia wins on one count, however: it’s more expensive than phen/fen was. I predict that Meridia will be gone within a year, not because of some terrible side effect that’s discovered, but because it simply won’t sell. It doesn’t work any better than placebo.

Placebos work for some people; so does Meridia. If it has to be expensive to have that effect, so be it. — Truly Donovan reply to truly at lunemere dot com

Response:

  I’ve just begun doing web searches for info on Effexor.  Having found   anything addressing the combination of the Effexor and Phen yet.  Anyone   have any info/ideas? I haven’t found anything anywhere specifically addressing the combination. A good place to look for information on stuff like this is MedLine, which you can get to at http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/PubMed/ The chemical name of Effexor is venlafaxine (MedLine refers to drugs by their chemical names). I’ve been searching for information on the combination of venlafaxine and phentermine lately.  If I find anything, I’ll be sure to post it. One possible concern about this combo would definitely be blood pressure. Effexor, like Meridia (they’re very similar drugs) can cause a sustained increase in blood pressure.  Phentermine can increase blood pressure too, and should be used with caution where there’s already high blood pressure. Of course, obesity has its own health risks, and on the balance, the risks of the drug-induced hypertension may be offset by the benefits of weight loss.  At least, this was the argument that Knoll (makers of Meridia) made to get their product on the market.

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: I’ve never heard of weight gain with Effexor.  A certain percentage of : people experience weight loss with it, but the weight loss isn’t very : significant.  I’ve been wondering lately whether Effexor combined with : phentermine might be useful.  You could end up with overstimulation, at : least theoretically, but it seems like they would potentiate one another. Funny you should mention this.  Just yesterday I saw a new doctor, who seems to be developing a subspecialty in treating weight.  I told him my history – success with phen/fen, no success with Meridia or phen/pro or phen/wellbutrin, maintaining with difficulty on phen and 5-HTP.  He said that the only combo he’s been having success with has been phentermine and Effexor, so I’m starting that today.  Currently 30 mgs phentermine, 37.5 Effexor.   I’ve just begun doing web searches for info on Effexor.  Having found anything addressing the combination of the Effexor and Phen yet.  Anyone have any info/ideas? Julie

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I have been getting killer headaches when I take 15 mg, but not when I take 10 mg.  It’s happening consistantly enough that I think it’s related to the dosage.  Otherwise, I’ve been really happy with it. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My doctor has suggested I try the prescription Meridia. My doctor put me on Meridia 4 weeks ago and so far so good!  I’ve lost 15 pounds and found that I feel full without a lot of cravings.  I’m also on  1000 calorie diet and trying to exercise on my treadmill 3-4 times a week.   I’ve been on 10mg but I’ve been feeling hungry and cravings the last few days so they’ve upped my prescription to 15mg which I’ll fill tomorrow. My major side effect was dry mouth, which has abated somewhat.  I had a killer headache on the second day but none since.  My blood pressure and heart rate are monitored regularly and haven’t shown any change, but I have always had low blood pressure so I wasn’t too worried about that possibility.  I was never on Fen/Phen so I can’t compare Meridia to it.  It is definitely nice to feel full without overeating for a change!! Kim 245/230/135 ComputerSmiths Consulting, Inc.                www.compusmiths.com   — Crafting Solutions for Computers

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Do you know whether Effexor has the same reputation for causing weight gain?  If not, perhaps it would be worth a try to see if I’m one of that small number who loses. AB

I gained weiht on both drugs, not as much on Prozac, but quite a bit on Effexor, say 20 pounds over a 6 month period. JaneG

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My doctor has suggested I try the prescription Meridia.  It is similar to Phen-Fen but without the dangerous side effects.  It works at stabilizing metabolism and reducing hunger.  His current users lose an average of 4 to 10 lbs. per month depending on if they exercise and diet in addtion to the pills.

If they exercise and diet WITHOUT the pills they’ll lose 4 lbs a month.  It doesn’t sound like it’s worth it.

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