Question:
As mentioned before, Creation and evolution go hand in hand. Do you mean the word creation …. well maybe. If you mean biblical creation – nonsense! Biblical Creation and evolution can go hand in hand by a scientific stand point to tie up the "theory of evolutions" loose ends that scientists cannot explain. All one has to do is to use all knowledge of mankind at his disposal, without throwing out a vast amount of it, dismissing it as fairy tales and fallasies.
Creationism and ToE can go hand in hand, but wont be accepted by any one with a scientific mind. You don’t supply answers for the holes. YOU SEARCH FOR THE TRUTH not what makes you feel complete. Scientists are comfortable with the holes, more to work on. Scientists aren’t comfortable with half- assed answeres to questions with realy truth behind them. One cannot be truthfully explained without the other. Science has done quite well explaing things without needing (or finiding evidence for) a god! Science is as baffled at this Creation and evolution thing today as it was a hundred years ago. Many scientists, who are Christian, are turning to the Bible for answers to loose ends in the "theory of evolution".
Because those "scientists" are cowards — can’t accept reality (that we are still ignorant). Not having answers to all of the questions does not make creationism true. It means more must be discovered, not fabricated. If it were so, then one or the other would have overtaken the world with little or know question whatsoever. Bull shit! Science has answers — plenty of them. Science has many loose ends that cannot be explained without God or the Biblical history.
Can not be explained by ignorant fearfull theists who *need* god inorder to live a good life. Science does not have ALL the answers, and never will.
Does that make god or you religion true? NO!!!!!!! Because it dismisses too many facts leaving a lot of unanswered questions and loose ends that cannot be explained any other way except with God.
How did earth form? — god. How did Columbus find the americas? — god. How does my computer work? — god. How did I find my keys this morning? — god. Just because I may not know how my computer works, the earth formed, or how I found my keys doesn’t mean that god did it. It means that I am not knowledgable or rational enough to conclude an intelligent answer. And the same goes for humanity in general. We can’t explain everythign (as you pointed out many times) and the reason is because we are still too ignorant and have not found the answers, not that god is responsible. Science is STILL based in reality, facts and evidence; creationism is still based in fables and fairy tales. With a mentality like this, it is a wonder you made it out of Kindergarten.
Rather than ridculing, point out where his logic is wrong. And, by the way, his logic is not wrong. Creationsim has no evidence, it has NEVER been witnessed anywhere, ever. It has less credibility than evolution. (here is the point where you respond with one of your pointless pseudo- insults rather than addressing the issue)
Response:
Why, my friend, are you waiting for your next athesistic laugh? You appear to live and devote your entire life to making jokes, so I would guess that you are.
Don’t try to make judgments about someone’s "entire life" based on a few USENET posts. It makes you look ridiculous. Jon
Response:
You obviously don’t understand human nature very well. I understand human nature better than YOU will ever know.
How do you know? I might have a degree in sociology or philosophy. Maybe I have been to dozens of countrys or studied anthropolgy under eminent professors and philosophers. You don’t know so don’t assume that I can’t know as much, or more, about human nature than you do. (*christian arrogance* : I know best) Evolution is a fact of reality for life, planetary formation, and the development of the universe. The "theory of evolution", which it still is, is still chopped up with many holes like swiss cheese, and remains to have too many unanswered questions in it.
I didn’t use evolution in the context of human evolution. I used it to represent the process of change. There is a process to the formation of planets, solar systems, minerals and life. You can’t disagree that formation has a process can you? Evolution is merely change, thats all. And I already have a clue from what you have written that you are not very familiar with scientific procedures. A theory, as it is used in the SCIENTIFIC sense is a formula or construct that has successfuly stood up to all tests, but has not found the single piece of proof that makes it a law. Simliar to proving a mathematical formula. Some formulas can describe a set of numbers from x to any number you care to crunch. But since numbers go to infity you cant say that since the fromula works for the first billion numbers it must work for all. Same with evolution. Everything that we can test it with, genetics, diseases, speciation, etc.. it stands up to it. But since no one was around 100million years ago we can’t say for certain evolution worked the same way then. We can say though that from this poitn on evolution seems to work. I have studied evolution for a few years now, under intellgient professors, and all of these holes you speak of are not realy there. These holes are only visible to ignorant uneducated people. Once you have studied evolution you not just find it to be logical but rather mundane in its process. (I am not implying that you are uneducated or ignorant in these matters and I really don’t care.) If evolution was accepted by everyone then creationism will become a fairy tale. Creation will never become a fairy tale to anyone except the atheists who seek to destroy humanity at all costs.
Creationism will become a fairy tale once people stop believing in it. Just as Zeus, Ra and all of those old world gods have become. Once there is no one to believe in somethign it no longer exists. And on my weekends I, sit in a dark room clutching a glass of brandy planing world domination… give me a break man. Atheists aren’t trying to destroy humanity, every religion, every culture has individuals who cause negative repricussion on society. If you really wish to single out atheists as if EVER ONE OF THEM wanted to take away your freedoms and destroy your culture then give me a half an hour and I will be able to pull up a hundred sources saying the same about any religion. I recomend we do not go down this path of blame.. it never gets us anywhere. Our spontaneous creation by god is the fundamental cornerstone of christianity and many other religions. If we no longer were intentionally created, but instead evolved from other life forms, religions would completely loose any foundation it may have. This is why there is such resistance to evolution, not that it requires creationsim, but people are too scared to be wrong. Another reply that is wrought with loopholes and falasies using methods that still have work to be done to prove the atheist theory that the "theory of evolution" is the key to the beginnings of the human race.
Please point out my loopholes in the previous paragraph. I will break it down for you to make it simpler. 1. Creationsim is a foundation of Christianity (True / False)? 2. Evolution says creationsim is b.s. and we evolved from simpler life forms (True / False)? 3. IF EVOLUTION IS TRUE then we are no longer spontaneously created by god. (True / False)? 4. If our existence is nothing more than chance, then we have no more purpose than any other creature (True / False)? 5. If we are no longer special then christianity will loose its strongest cornerstone (True / False)? You still haven’t proven a thing.
I never had any intention to prove anything. Do you?
Response:
You obviously don’t understand human nature very well. I understand human nature better than YOU will ever know. I have lived it as well as studied the human mind from the best perspective that one can study anything. So believe what you will, it is your right in a free society.
Huh. What exactly is the best perspective that one can study anything? It seems to me that someone convinced that their perspective is "best" probably doesn’t have much interest in perspective at all. Evolution is a fact of reality for life, planetary formation, and the development of the universe. The "theory of evolution", which it still is, is still chopped up with many holes like swiss cheese, and remains to have too many unanswered questions in it.
Therein lies its beauty. For some reason, people are attracted to neat little answers that can be expressed in sound bites. But if an answer is too easy, it’s probably not true. The theory of evolution doesn’t boil down to a sound bite. It’s an ongoing, fluid attempt to answer questions about the origin of different species on Earth. These issues are not simple. Ancient Greeks believed lightning could be explained in a sound bite: "Zeus is throwing bolts from the sky." It turned out that lightning was the result of incredibly complex electrical dynamics between the earth and suspended clouds of water vapor, which I am at a loss to explain fully. Research into this matter continues today: the Japanese have built a supercomputer the likes of which has never been seen, dedicated to running large-scale weather and geological simulations. In the middle ages, another prevailing belief was also a sound bite: "The heavens rotate around the earth." No dice. Galileo observed that orbits did not follow this pattern. Kepler attempted to devise a system of mathematics to describe planetary motion. It was on the right track, but wrong. Newton attempted further explanation, which proved insightful but incomplete. Einstein’s theories of general relativity, years after his death, proved useful in explaining certain orbital anomalies. Research into orbits and gravitation continues today: NASA is engaged in a study of gravitational libration points – often-unstable areas where gravitational forces cancel each other out and leave a net sum of zero. I am unwilling to believe that the sound bite: "God created all the animals and humans as they are" could have any more validity than those. The origin of life, and the origin of species, are incredibly complex issues, which deserve our full attention and study. Attempts to reduce evolution to a sound bite, like "Species evolve through natural selection" or "Man descended from monkeys", mistakenly render it as ridiculous as any other sound bite. That’s not what evolution is about. Evolution is about inductive research: gather evidence, form theories, test those theories. It is an ongoing, incomplete process. If evolution was accepted by everyone then creationism will become a fairy tale. Creation will never become a fairy tale to anyone except the atheists who seek to destroy humanity at all costs.
That’s not really a fair statement: those atheists I know are dedicated to preserving humanity at all costs. Some creationists, on the other hand, are eagerly anticipating the end of the world. Our spontaneous creation by god is the fundamental cornerstone of christianity and many other religions. If we no longer were intentionally created, but instead evolved from other life forms, religions would completely loose any foundation it may have. This is why there is such resistance to evolution, not that it requires creationsim, but people are too scared to be wrong. Another reply that is wrought with loopholes and falasies using methods that still have work to be done to prove the atheist theory that the "theory of evolution" is the key to the beginnings of the human race. You still haven’t proven a thing.
I think, in life, you will find that it’s nearly impossible to prove anything at all. But that doesn’t give us carte blanche to write our own stories and ignore the world around us. Jon
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I found the following a long time ago and could not help but read it again to better understand why God exists. After looking at the world around me, it is obvious because man needs all the help he can get to not blow up the world for his own pleasur like a little child with a temper tantrum. And going out on our own away from God, that is exactly what we have become; little children with a bad temper and a lust for all the possessions we can get. Well, happy reading and I hope this helps someone out there find a new understanding of who Jesus is and why God does exists. … When will you publish your next paper, Doctor Freud? Why, my friend, are you waiting for your next athesistic laugh? You appear to live and devote your entire life to making jokes, so I would guess that you are.
He’s got to do something during this LONG wait for one of you creationist assholes to present ANY valid evidence to support your claims!
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you’re looking for proof that God exists in the Bible, forget it! If you search for a thing from the wrong POINT OF VIEW, you will never prove a thing. Try a different approach. This philosophy goes along with anything in life, and not limited to religious nature. I will let your intelligent and scientific mind find that approach for yourself. It is the only fair thing to do in order to keep you from feeling utterly USELESS. God is truly beyond our human comprehension, and to box in, narrowly define and limit God to a book is totally asinine. Man, in all of his infinite wisdom, has already tried to place God in a box, with little success, I might add to the point of limiting him in almost every aspect of human life. God is still in control of this world, whether we care to believe or not. Let me picture it this way for you. If Jesus had come off of the cross at Calvary by divine power, what would the world be doing today?
Getting beaten like DOGS by Him….. Paul – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ponder over this question for a while and get back with me. Emails welcome, and are subject to use by me in whatever way that I see fit. Deletion is possible. So – since you cannot prove god exists, there is no valid reason to assume god exists! So, my friend, have you proven that God doesn’t exist? That is the other question I pose tonight. You have yet to do so in any form whatsoever, except to argue over trivial things because you appear to enjoy it. Oh, by the way, God is only unprovable to those who cannot, or will not believe. Shalom, Bill But the Bible is God’s Word for us to live by. You haven’t proven god exists – so any claims about the bible are meaningless! You have not proven that God doesn’t exist, so any claims that your infinite wisdom have presented are TOTALLY MEANINGLESS. Good night, and may God bless your life forever. Edgar
Response:
Unscientific, non-reality based opinion.
Yes, that is exactly where your mentality has lead you. Christianity and the belief in Creation is very scientific if looked about in the right way. How? Banging your head agasint the wall for a day, and then taking a double dose of LSD? You can only look at science in a scientific way!
A pity. Limited mentality in your case is very dangerous. How much LSD have you taken in a lifetime? There might be a few missing or dead brain cells. As mentioned before, Creation and evolution go hand in hand. Do you mean the word creation …. well maybe. If you mean biblical creation – nonsense!
Biblical Creation and evolution can go hand in hand by a scientific stand point to tie up the "theory of evolutions" loose ends that scientists cannot explain. All one has to do is to use all knowledge of mankind at his disposal, without throwing out a vast amount of it, dismissing it as fairy tales and fallasies. One cannot be truthfully explained without the other. Science has done quite well explaing things without needing (or finiding evidence for) a god!
Science is as baffled at this Creation and evolution thing today as it was a hundred years ago. Many scientists, who are Christian, are turning to the Bible for answers to loose ends in the "theory of evolution". If it were so, then one or the other would have overtaken the world with little or know question whatsoever. Bull shit! Science has answers — plenty of them.
Science has many loose ends that cannot be explained without God or the Biblical history. Science does not have ALL the answers, and never will.
Because it dismisses too many facts leaving a lot of unanswered questions and loose ends that cannot be explained any other way except with God. Science is STILL based in reality, facts and evidence; creationism is still based in fables and fairy tales.
With a mentality like this, it is a wonder you made it out of Kindergarten. Today, that age old debate still rages on, and on, and on. The debate is over. Unfortunately that does not stop ignorance from trying to spread.
As long as atheists and non-believers persist, ignorance will persist in the world, and scientific questions will go unanswered forever. When you take away a part of history, gaps begin to form, and holes in theories keep them as that, just theories. We will never fully understand until we accept reality that God does exist in this universe and all around us. I will accept that reality the moment you PROVE that reality! You haven’t, you won’t, you can’t! You can no more prove YOUR god than the acient Romans and Greeks could prove their multiple gods!
And I will except your reality the moment you can PROVE your theories without you eliminating many facts of human history. It still hasn’t been done by the all-knowing, all-powerful atheists and non-believers. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – BTW….there is a born again, fundamentalist christian in the White House who, it appears, is just like the arrogant, selfish and uncontrollable child you describe. Funny, I know that G.W. is a Christian, and to my belief has handled this crisin we are in quite well. I assume you mean crisis. He CREATED this crisis, by handling a situation like a moron! he is no longer concerned (interested?) in bin Laden (the man who caluse the tragedy) and is now trying to engage us in an invasion of a nation that has little, if anything, to do with 9/11!
And if you have concrete proof of this, then why don’t you excercise your rights in this nation and head up an impeachment procedure to remove him from office. With your infinite wisdom, you do know that you can do that? Of course you did. Even better than I believed at first as he rushed off to start a war. But he has not blasted Iraq out of existence because he knows that Saddam is waiting for him or someone to do just that so he can pounce like a waiting cat stalking its prey. Saddam wants the US to go rushing in blindly bombing Iraq and the innocent peoples so he can look very good in the eyes of the world. If you cannot see this, you are blind as a bat. Iraq has nothing to do qith 9/11. It is ENTIRELY a Bush corrupt, incompetent, political move!
And you have concrete proof of this? We are dealing with a maniac in this little nation of Iraq that would sell his own grandmother for a buck, and a chance to remain in power, as would many Americans, if not all. Do you have concrete proof that he was NOT supplying weapons to terrorists factions of the Muslim religion of Islam? If so, present it. I am sure the state department, as well as the president would like to see it as well, or are you as a Darwinian evolutionist used to hiding, withholding, destroying, or discarding the facts? Bush and his administration have handled this situation very well despite how it started out. So why is he no longer interested in the man that caused the death of thousands of Americans?
And you have privy information on the inside of his mind that the rest of us are not privy to? Enlighten us so we can believe too. If war is to be, then it has to be and will be time, but no sooner, or not a minute later. Read Ecclesiastes 3:1-8. If you have a Bible, look it up and read it.
You can acquire a Bible at any retail store, book store, or library. It would be a useful tool for you to broaden your search for the truth. War does not have to be … that’s deranged. You bible quotes mean nothing!
The Bible is God’s plan, our guide, and a book that is good for discipline, wisdom, finances, moral values, history, psychology, families, education, medical, and much, much more. You should try reading it sometimes. A lot of your questions and falasies in your beliefs could be answered. The loopholes that you believe in could become closed, and your intelligence might be greatly improved. So you see, God has allowed mankind a time for everything that is under heaven. What god? You haven’t proven ANY god!
I took the liberty of writing this for you all to see it for yourself and that I am not making it up. No one accused you of making up the bible; just that the bible (YOUR religous beliefs) are based on fables and fairy tales – not fact!
are just fairy tales? Interesting. The kingdoms and peoples that existed in the past, and the past in general, are all just fairy tales. An interesting concept of our World History, you should write silently I smile with a smirking grin! I have given you the scriptures to view it for yourselves which is a very good practice rather than taking ones word for it as many people in our history have done due to illiteracy which reigned supreme and gave many religious leaders power to control their lives for a long, long time. Your "scriptures" mean nothing! They are a part of your religion – not the real world!
Christ and Christianity are as much a part of the real world as dinosaurs, man, and all that is in it. Your philosophy is so full of holes that it can never possibly hold water (or anything else). I see you didn’t post the scriptures, but you left the place where they could be found in the only book that has withstood the test of time. God does exist, and if you open your eyes, ears, and mind, you can see him too, in all of his glory. Happy reading and may God richly bless you for doing this. My eyes, ears and mind are always open … to evidence. You have none; only religious babbling!
As is your babbling about things that you cannot prove. My eyes, ears, and mind are too always open to everything and not just bits and pieces I choose for my own. I am open to science, Creation, Evolution, God, Heaven, Hell, witchcraft and occult, and much, much more, because I believe that all of it plays a vital part of our human history and ancestry. Atheists and non-believers, however, discard and dismiss parts of it and thus limits our history, knowledge, and understanding. Atheists are as the Liberals of our democratic society here in America. They only see what they wish to see, and dismiss the rest as "fairy tales". That blows your whole delusion to bits! It does nothing to anything as you have not yet proven that God doesn’t exist. You haven’t shown one shred of evidence god does exist! The burden is yours.
A typical atheistic cop out. The burden also rest upon yourself. You have an infinite wisdom, use it without deleting the facts of history and removing them from the eyes and ears of our children to prove that God doesnt’ exist. Until I see it, I will always believe that GOD DOES EXIST regardless of what fractured evidence you might present Of course you can’t, so I don’t have to worry. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Try giving the real Jesus a try and step away from your denominalational Jesus. You will see the difference for once in your life. I did, and he has helped me through some of the toughest times of my life. You also cannot explain away the miracles that still happen today as we go through this life. So give God a try
… read more »
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You obviously don’t understand human nature very well. I understand human nature better than YOU will ever know. I have lived it as well as studied the human mind from the best perspective that one can study anything. So believe what you will, it is your right in a free society. Evolution is a fact of reality for life, planetary formation, and the development of the universe. The "theory of evolution", which it still is, is still chopped up with many holes like swiss cheese, and remains to have too many unanswered questions in it. If evolution was accepted by everyone then creationism will become a fairy tale. Creation will never become a fairy tale to anyone except the atheists who seek to destroy humanity at all costs. Our spontaneous creation by god is the fundamental cornerstone of christianity and many other religions. If we no longer were intentionally created, but instead evolved from other life forms, religions would completely loose any foundation it may have. This is why there is such resistance to evolution, not that it requires creationsim, but people are too scared to be wrong. Another reply that is wrought with loopholes and falasies using methods that still have work to be done to prove the atheist theory that the "theory of evolution" is the key to the beginnings of the human race. You still haven’t proven a thing.
Neither have you. Cosmopolite God delights in diversity.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you’re looking for proof that God exists in the Bible, forget it! God is truly beyond our human comprehension, and to box in, narrowly define and limit God to a book is totally asinine. So – since you cannot prove god exists, there is no valid reason to assume god exists! Shalom, Bill But the Bible is God’s Word for us to live by. You haven’t proven god exists – so any claims about the bible are meaningless!
I second this one
Response:
Unscientific, non-reality based opinion. Christianity and the belief in Creation is very scientific if looked about in the right way. As mentioned before, Creation and evolution go hand in hand. One cannot be truthfully explained without the other. If it were so, then one or the other would have overtaken the world with little or know question whatsoever. Today, that age old debate still rages on, and on, and on. We will never fully understand until we accept reality that God does exist in this universe and all around us.
I thout the age old question was Wich came first the chican or the egg – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – BTW….there is a born again, fundamentalist christian in the White House who, it appears, is just like the arrogant, selfish and uncontrollable child you describe. Funny, I know that G.W. is a Christian, and to my belief has handled this crisin we are in quite well. Even better than I believed at first as he rushed off to start a war. But he has not blasted Iraq out of existence because he knows that Saddam is waiting for him or someone to do just that so he can pounce like a waiting cat stalking its prey. Saddam wants the US to go rushing in blindly bombing Iraq and the innocent peoples so he can look very good in the eyes of the world. If you cannot see this, you are blind as a bat. Bush and his administration have handled this situation very well despite how it started out. If war is to be, then it has to be and will be time, but no sooner, or not a minute later. Read Ecclesiastes 3:1-8. If you have a Bible, look it up and read it. 1. "To everything there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven. 2. A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted; 3. A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up; 4. A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance; 5. A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain form embracing; 6. A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away. 7. A time rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak; 8. A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace." So you see, God has allowed mankind a time for everything that is under heaven. I took the liberty of writing this for you all to see it for yourself and that I am not making it up. I have given you the scriptures to view it for yourselves which is a very good practice rather than taking ones word for it as many people in our history have done due to illiteracy which reigned supreme and gave many religious leaders power to control their lives for a long, long time. God does exist, and if you open your eyes, ears, and mind, you can see him too, in all of his glory. Happy reading and may God richly bless you for doing this. That blows your whole delusion to bits! It does nothing to anything as you have not yet proven that God doesn’t exist. Try giving the real Jesus a try and step away from your denominalational Jesus. You will see the difference for once in your life. I did, and he has helped me through some of the toughest times of my life. You also cannot explain away the miracles that still happen today as we go through this life. So give God a try through Jesus Christ.
Response:
If you’re looking for proof that God exists in the Bible, forget it!
If you search for a thing from the wrong POINT OF VIEW, you will never prove a thing. Try a different approach. This philosophy goes along with anything in life, and not limited to religious nature. I will let your intelligent and scientific mind find that approach for yourself. It is the only fair thing to do in order to keep you from feeling utterly USELESS. God is truly beyond our human comprehension, and to box in, narrowly define and limit God to a book is totally asinine.
Man, in all of his infinite wisdom, has already tried to place God in a box, with little success, I might add to the point of limiting him in almost every aspect of human life. God is still in control of this world, whether we care to believe or not. Let me picture it this way for you. If Jesus had come off of the cross at Calvary by divine power, what would the world be doing today? Ponder over this question for a while and get back with me. Emails welcome, and are subject to use by me in whatever way that I see fit. Deletion is possible. So – since you cannot prove god exists, there is no valid reason to assume god exists!
So, my friend, have you proven that God doesn’t exist? That is the other question I pose tonight. You have yet to do so in any form whatsoever, except to argue over trivial things because you appear to enjoy it. Oh, by the way, God is only unprovable to those who cannot, or will not believe. Shalom, Bill But the Bible is God’s Word for us to live by. You haven’t proven god exists – so any claims about the bible are meaningless!
You have not proven that God doesn’t exist, so any claims that your infinite wisdom have presented are TOTALLY MEANINGLESS. Good night, and may God bless your life forever. Edgar
Response:
Unscientific, non-reality based opinion. Christianity and the belief in Creation is very scientific if looked about in the right way. As mentioned before, Creation and evolution go hand in hand. One cannot be truthfully explained without the other. If it were so, then one or the other would have overtaken the world with little or know question whatsoever.
You obviously don’t understand human nature very well. Evolution is a fact of reality for life, planetary formation, and the development of the universe. If evolution was accepted by everyone then creationism will become a fairy tale. Our spontaneous creation by god is the fundamental cornerstone of christianity and many other religions. If we no longer were intentionally created, but instead evolved from other life forms, religions would completely loose any foundation it may have. This is why there is such resistance to evolution, not that it requires creationsim, but people are too scared to be wrong.
Response:
I found the following a long time ago and could not help but read it again to better understand why God exists. After looking at the world around me, it is obvious because man needs all the help he can get to not blow up the world for his own pleasur like a little child with a temper tantrum. And going out on our own away from God, that is exactly what we have become; little children with a bad temper and a lust for all the possessions we can get. Well, happy reading and I hope this helps someone out there find a new understanding of who Jesus is and why God does exists. … When will you publish your next paper, Doctor Freud?
Why, my friend, are you waiting for your next athesistic laugh? You appear to live and devote your entire life to making jokes, so I would guess that you are.
Response:
You obviously don’t understand human nature very well.
I understand human nature better than YOU will ever know. I have lived it as well as studied the human mind from the best perspective that one can study anything. So believe what you will, it is your right in a free society. Evolution is a fact of reality for life, planetary formation, and the development of the universe.
The "theory of evolution", which it still is, is still chopped up with many holes like swiss cheese, and remains to have too many unanswered questions in it. If evolution was accepted by everyone then creationism will become a fairy tale.
Creation will never become a fairy tale to anyone except the atheists who seek to destroy humanity at all costs. Our spontaneous creation by god is the fundamental cornerstone of christianity and many other religions. If we no longer were intentionally created, but instead evolved from other life forms, religions would completely loose any foundation it may have. This is why there is such resistance to evolution, not that it requires creationsim, but people are too scared to be wrong.
Another reply that is wrought with loopholes and falasies using methods that still have work to be done to prove the atheist theory that the "theory of evolution" is the key to the beginnings of the human race. You still haven’t proven a thing.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Unscientific, non-reality based opinion. Christianity and the belief in Creation is very scientific if looked about in the right way. As mentioned before, Creation and evolution go hand in hand. One cannot be truthfully explained without the other. If it were so, then one or the other would have overtaken the world with little or know question whatsoever. Today, that age old debate still rages on, and on, and on. We will never fully understand until we accept reality that God does exist in this universe and all around us. BTW….there is a born again, fundamentalist christian in the White House who, it appears, is just like the arrogant, selfish and uncontrollable child you describe. Funny, I know that G.W. is a Christian, and to my belief has handled this crisin we are in quite well. Even better than I believed at first as he rushed off to start a war. But he has not blasted Iraq out of existence because he knows that Saddam is waiting for him or someone to do just that so he can pounce like a waiting cat stalking its prey. Saddam wants the US to go rushing in blindly bombing Iraq and the innocent peoples so he can look very good in the eyes of the world. If you cannot see this, you are blind as a bat. Bush and his administration have handled this situation very well despite how it started out. If war is to be, then it has to be and will be time, but no sooner, or not a minute later. Read Ecclesiastes 3:1-8. If you have a Bible, look it up and read it. 1. "To everything there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven. 2. A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted; 3. A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up; 4. A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance; 5. A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain form embracing; 6. A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away. 7. A time rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak; 8. A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace." So you see, God has allowed mankind a time for everything that is under heaven. I took the liberty of writing this for you all to see it for yourself and that I am not making it up. I have given you the scriptures to view it for yourselves which is a very good practice rather than taking ones word for it as many people in our history have done due to illiteracy which reigned supreme and gave many religious leaders power to control their lives for a long, long time. God does exist, and if you open your eyes, ears, and mind, you can see him too, in all of his glory. Happy reading and may God richly bless you for doing this. That blows your whole delusion to bits! It does nothing to anything as you have not yet proven that God doesn’t exist. Try giving the real Jesus a try and step away from your denominalational Jesus. You will see the difference for once in your life. I did, and he has helped me through some of the toughest times of my life. You also cannot explain away the miracles that still happen today as we go through this life. So give God a try through Jesus Christ. Please explain the " miracles " that are mentioned above. Cosmopolite God delights in diversity.
Miracles are the christians way of spells and wichcraft but they say it is richas and thusfore Good
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you’re looking for proof that God exists in the Bible, forget it! God is truly beyond our human comprehension, and to box in, narrowly define and limit God to a book is totally asinine. Shalom, Bill But the Bible is God’s Word for us to live by. It is a guidebook, a book of discipline, a history book, a psychology book, as well as a book of prophesy that explains things that many an adult cannot fathom or come anywhere close to understanding. Why? Because most seculiar humans are looking at God from a worldly point of view without ever knowing him personally. In this way, he becomes ever elusive seeking out only those who believe by faith and ask Jesus for forgiveness of their sins, for it is this man Jesus who has bridged the gap between God and man over the great divide of sin that separates the two. Without him, despite what many atheists, wiccans, and non-believers would say, no one will see the Father in heaven. Thank you for your time in allowing me to respond to this post. May God bless you in your life forever.
the bible is nothing more than a fictianal noval created buy people with a need to hide ther lust for money ,power,and pleshur
Response:
Unscientific, non-reality based opinion. Christianity and the belief in Creation is very scientific if looked about in the right way.
How? Banging your head agasint the wall for a day, and then taking a double dose of LSD? You can only look at science in a scientific way! As mentioned before, Creation and evolution go hand in hand.
Do you mean the word creation …. well maybe. If you mean biblical creation – nonsense! One cannot be truthfully explained without the other.
Science has done quite well explaing things without needing (or finiding evidence for) a god! If it were so, then one or the other would have overtaken the world with little or know question whatsoever.
Bull shit! Science has answers — plenty of them. Science does not have ALL the answers, and never will. Science is STILL based in reality, facts and evidence; creationism is still based in fables and fairy tales. Today, that age old debate still rages on, and on, and on.
The debate is over. Unfortunately that does not stop ignorance from trying to spread. We will never fully understand until we accept reality that God does exist in this universe and all around us.
I will accept that reality the moment you PROVE that reality! You haven’t, you won’t, you can’t! You can no more prove YOUR god than the acient Romans and Greeks could prove their multiple gods! BTW….there is a born again, fundamentalist christian in the White House who, it appears, is just like the arrogant, selfish and uncontrollable child you describe. Funny, I know that G.W. is a Christian, and to my belief has handled this crisin we are in quite well.
I assume you mean crisis. He CREATED this crisis, by handling a situation like a moron! he is no longer concerned (interested?) in bin Laden (the man who caluse the tragedy) and is now trying to engage us in an invasion of a nation that has little, if anything, to do with 9/11! Even better than I believed at first as he rushed off to start a war. But he has not blasted Iraq out of existence because he knows that Saddam is waiting for him or someone to do just that so he can pounce like a waiting cat stalking its prey. Saddam wants the US to go rushing in blindly bombing Iraq and the innocent peoples so he can look very good in the eyes of the world. If you cannot see this, you are blind as a bat.
Iraq has nothing to do qith 9/11. It is ENTIRELY a Bush corrupt, incompetent, political move! Bush and his administration have handled this situation very well despite how it started out.
So why is he no longer interested in the man that caused the death of thousands of Americans? If war is to be, then it has to be and will be time, but no sooner, or not a minute later. Read Ecclesiastes 3:1-8. If you have a Bible, look it up and read it.
War does not have to be … that’s deranged. You bible quotes mean nothing! So you see, God has allowed mankind a time for everything that is under heaven.
What god? You haven’t proven ANY god! I took the liberty of writing this for you all to see it for yourself and that I am not making it up.
No one accused you of making up the bible; just that the bible (YOUR religous beliefs) are based on fables and fairy tales – not fact! I have given you the scriptures to view it for yourselves which is a very good practice rather than taking ones word for it as many people in our history have done due to illiteracy which reigned supreme and gave many religious leaders power to control their lives for a long, long time.
Your "scriptures" mean nothing! They are a part of your religion – not the real world! God does exist, and if you open your eyes, ears, and mind, you can see him too, in all of his glory. Happy reading and may God richly bless you for doing this.
My eyes, ears and mind are always open … to evidence. You have none; only religious babbling! That blows your whole delusion to bits! It does nothing to anything as you have not yet proven that God doesn’t exist.
You haven’t shown one shred of evidence god does exist! The burden is yours. Try giving the real Jesus a try and step away from your denominalational Jesus. You will see the difference for once in your life. I did, and he has helped me through some of the toughest times of my life. You also cannot explain away the miracles that still happen today as we go through this life. So give God a try through Jesus Christ.
The very moment you provide evidence! and don’t even think about that insane crap that I have to try it first in order to believe! All that says is I have to be brainwashed into learning that what I’m being brainwashed about is true!
Response:
I found the following a long time ago and could not help but read it again to better understand why God exists. After looking at the world around me, it is obvious because man needs all the help he can get to not blow up the world for his own pleasur like a little child with a temper tantrum. And going out on our own away from God, that is exactly what we have become; little children with a bad temper and a lust for all the possessions we can get. Well, happy reading and I hope this helps someone out there find a new understanding of who Jesus is and why God does exists.
Unscientific, non-reality based opinion. BTW….there is a born again, fundamentalist christian in the White House who, it appears, is just like the arrogant, selfish and uncontrollable child you describe. That blows your whole delusion to bits!
Response:
If you’re looking for proof that God exists in the Bible, forget it! God is truly beyond our human comprehension, and to box in, narrowly define and limit God to a book is totally asinine. Shalom, Bill
But the Bible is God’s Word for us to live by. It is a guidebook, a book of discipline, a history book, a psychology book, as well as a book of prophesy that explains things that many an adult cannot fathom or come anywhere close to understanding. Why? Because most seculiar humans are looking at God from a worldly point of view without ever knowing him personally. In this way, he becomes ever elusive seeking out only those who believe by faith and ask Jesus for forgiveness of their sins, for it is this man Jesus who has bridged the gap between God and man over the great divide of sin that separates the two. Without him, despite what many atheists, wiccans, and non-believers would say, no one will see the Father in heaven. Thank you for your time in allowing me to respond to this post. May God bless you in your life forever.
Response:
Unscientific, non-reality based opinion.
Christianity and the belief in Creation is very scientific if looked about in the right way. As mentioned before, Creation and evolution go hand in hand. One cannot be truthfully explained without the other. If it were so, then one or the other would have overtaken the world with little or know question whatsoever. Today, that age old debate still rages on, and on, and on. We will never fully understand until we accept reality that God does exist in this universe and all around us. BTW….there is a born again, fundamentalist christian in the White House who, it appears, is just like the arrogant, selfish and uncontrollable child you describe.
Funny, I know that G.W. is a Christian, and to my belief has handled this crisin we are in quite well. Even better than I believed at first as he rushed off to start a war. But he has not blasted Iraq out of existence because he knows that Saddam is waiting for him or someone to do just that so he can pounce like a waiting cat stalking its prey. Saddam wants the US to go rushing in blindly bombing Iraq and the innocent peoples so he can look very good in the eyes of the world. If you cannot see this, you are blind as a bat. Bush and his administration have handled this situation very well despite how it started out. If war is to be, then it has to be and will be time, but no sooner, or not a minute later. Read Ecclesiastes 3:1-8. If you have a Bible, look it up and read it. 1. "To everything there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven. 2. A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted; 3. A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up; 4. A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance; 5. A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain form embracing; 6. A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away. 7. A time rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak; 8. A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace." So you see, God has allowed mankind a time for everything that is under heaven. I took the liberty of writing this for you all to see it for yourself and that I am not making it up. I have given you the scriptures to view it for yourselves which is a very good practice rather than taking ones word for it as many people in our history have done due to illiteracy which reigned supreme and gave many religious leaders power to control their lives for a long, long time. God does exist, and if you open your eyes, ears, and mind, you can see him too, in all of his glory. Happy reading and may God richly bless you for doing this. That blows your whole delusion to bits!
It does nothing to anything as you have not yet proven that God doesn’t exist. Try giving the real Jesus a try and step away from your denominalational Jesus. You will see the difference for once in your life. I did, and he has helped me through some of the toughest times of my life. You also cannot explain away the miracles that still happen today as we go through this life. So give God a try through Jesus Christ.
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Unscientific, non-reality based opinion. Christianity and the belief in Creation is very scientific if looked about in the right way. As mentioned before, Creation and evolution go hand in hand. One cannot be truthfully explained without the other. If it were so, then one or the other would have overtaken the world with little or know question whatsoever. Today, that age old debate still rages on, and on, and on. We will never fully understand until we accept reality that God does exist in this universe and all around us. BTW….there is a born again, fundamentalist christian in the White House who, it appears, is just like the arrogant, selfish and uncontrollable child you describe. Funny, I know that G.W. is a Christian, and to my belief has handled this crisin we are in quite well. Even better than I believed at first as he rushed off to start a war. But he has not blasted Iraq out of existence because he knows that Saddam is waiting for him or someone to do just that so he can pounce like a waiting cat stalking its prey. Saddam wants the US to go rushing in blindly bombing Iraq and the innocent peoples so he can look very good in the eyes of the world. If you cannot see this, you are blind as a bat. Bush and his administration have handled this situation very well despite how it started out. If war is to be, then it has to be and will be time, but no sooner, or not a minute later. Read Ecclesiastes 3:1-8. If you have a Bible, look it up and read it. 1. "To everything there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven. 2. A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted; 3. A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up; 4. A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance; 5. A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain form embracing; 6. A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away. 7. A time rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak; 8. A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace." So you see, God has allowed mankind a time for everything that is under heaven. I took the liberty of writing this for you all to see it for yourself and that I am not making it up. I have given you the scriptures to view it for yourselves which is a very good practice rather than taking ones word for it as many people in our history have done due to illiteracy which reigned supreme and gave many religious leaders power to control their lives for a long, long time. God does exist, and if you open your eyes, ears, and mind, you can see him too, in all of his glory. Happy reading and may God richly bless you for doing this. That blows your whole delusion to bits! It does nothing to anything as you have not yet proven that God doesn’t exist. Try giving the real Jesus a try and step away from your denominalational Jesus. You will see the difference for once in your life. I did, and he has helped me through some of the toughest times of my life. You also cannot explain away the miracles that still happen today as we go through this life. So give God a try through Jesus Christ.
Please explain the " miracles " that are mentioned above. Cosmopolite God delights in diversity.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I found the following a long time ago and could not help but read it again to better understand why God exists. After looking at the world around me, it is obvious because man needs all the help he can get to not blow up the world for his own pleasur like a little child with a temper tantrum. And going out on our own away from God, that is exactly what we have become; little children with a bad temper and a lust for all the possessions we can get. Well, happy reading and I hope this helps someone out there find a new understanding of who Jesus is and why God does exists. Saturday, March 8, 2003: Devotional: Orderliness in our Christian life: Science and Creation together as one: an old concept in a new light: To the Christian, Creation reveals God’s wisdom and power and orderliness. The study of science provides a means for us to get a glimpse of His unfathomable wisdom. The Bible says, "The works of the Lord are great, studied by all who have pleasure in them" (Psalm 111:2). Finding pleasure in the works of God is a legitimate, pure motivation to pursue the study of science. By contrast a humanist, atheist, or agnostic, and non-believer typically looks at science as a means of showing that God is not needed. He next assumes that since God is not needed that it is irrational to believe that He does exist. The scientific method is simply a process which earlier scientists developed in an effort to qualify the order that they observed in the universe. It consists of: 1) developing models, such that the models describe how the universe normally behaves, 2) testing the models in an experiment in order to determine the scopes of their validities, and then 3) modifying the models as necessary to make them more consistent with the observations. Thus, the scientific method is limited to providing us with information in the form of descriptions and measurements. It does not tell us the underlying reasons for anything. The Bible teaches that God is a God of order and not confusion. As a scientist looks at Creation, he not only recognizes orderliness in the structure of things, but his entire system is founded and dependent on its existence. Even the modern field of "chaos theory" is dependent upon observed events which are chaotic from man’s perspective but which still have certain characteristic qualities which render them capable of analysis. Thus, the Christian sees the orderliness of the universe as an outward expression of God’s innate orderliness. In one sense, science does not have the tools to determine this: there is no tool or instrument which can measure the boundaries of Deity, by the very definition of Deity. Yet, science is not necessarily completely silent on the issue either. Let’s consider the origin of life, which the Bible presents as among the greatest of God’s works. I believe that if an attempt is made to reduce the origin of life to purely natural, "scientific" causes, one ends up with nothing but dead ends and contradictions. This may not be what is typically taught by atheists within the science community, but I will attempt to justify this position over the next several chapters. Let’s suppose we can indeed show that one runs into dead ends and contradictions whenever he attempts to explain the origin of life through natural means exclusively, apart from intervention by God. Then we would be left with the only rational explanation for life being that God is its source. This in turn would imply that He exists. Furthermore, the Bible teaches that God considers this to be a valid argument. Therefore, a person should be very, very cautious about discarding it, particularly before he considers carefully the evidence. "The heavens declare the glory of God; and the expanse of heaven shows the work of His hands" (Psalm 19:1). "Let everything that has breath praise the Lord" (Psalm 150:6). . I hope this is helpful to anyone who is struggling with the age old debate of science and religion Creation and Evolution. It can be easily explained if one does not discard any valuable information such as we already know. This valuable information includes the theories that have come before us by the very scientists and theologists who have gone on now to know the truth. They were the forerunners of our own understanding of the universe in which we live whether they were Christian or not. Many still do not believe in the Creation theory, but I have always believed that evolution and Creation can go hand in hand if one accepts the theory of the "order of the universe" and will not discard a valuable variable such as God as fallacy, fantasy, or fairy tales. When we do this, there is a tendency to create confusion among the population as it would be to discard the variable of evolution. The two go hand in hand and should be treated as such. "…..For we trust we have a good conscience, in all things willing to live honestly
If you’re looking for proof that God exists in the Bible, forget it! God is truly beyond our human comprehension, and to box in, narrowly define and limit God to a book is totally asinine. Shalom, Bill
Response:
If you’re looking for proof that God exists in the Bible, forget it! God is truly beyond our human comprehension, and to box in, narrowly define and limit God to a book is totally asinine.
So – since you cannot prove god exists, there is no valid reason to assume god exists! Shalom, Bill But the Bible is God’s Word for us to live by.
You haven’t proven god exists – so any claims about the bible are meaningless!
Response:
I found the following a long time ago and could not help but read it again to better understand why God exists. After looking at the world around me, it is obvious because man needs all the help he can get to not blow up the world for his own pleasur like a little child with a temper tantrum. And going out on our own away from God, that is exactly what we have become; little children with a bad temper and a lust for all the possessions we can get. Well, happy reading and I hope this helps someone out there find a new understanding of who Jesus is and why God does exists.
… When will you publish your next paper, Doctor Freud?
Response:
I found the following a long time ago and could not help but read it again to better understand why God exists. After looking at the world around me, it is obvious because man needs all the help he can get to not blow up the world for his own pleasur like a little child with a temper tantrum. And going out on our own away from God, that is exactly what we have become; little children with a bad temper and a lust for all the possessions we can get. Well, happy reading and I hope this helps someone out there find a new understanding of who Jesus is and why God does exists. Saturday, March 8, 2003: Devotional: Orderliness in our Christian life: Science and Creation together as one: an old concept in a new light: To the Christian, Creation reveals God’s wisdom and power and orderliness. The study of science provides a means for us to get a glimpse of His unfathomable wisdom. The Bible says, "The works of the Lord are great, studied by all who have pleasure in them" (Psalm 111:2). Finding pleasure in the works of God is a legitimate, pure motivation to pursue the study of science. By contrast a humanist, atheist, or agnostic, and non-believer typically looks at science as a means of showing that God is not needed. He next assumes that since God is not needed that it is irrational to believe that He does exist. The scientific method is simply a process which earlier scientists developed in an effort to qualify the order that they observed in the universe. It consists of: 1) developing models, such that the models describe how the universe normally behaves, 2) testing the models in an experiment in order to determine the scopes of their validities, and then 3) modifying the models as necessary to make them more consistent with the observations. Thus, the scientific method is limited to providing us with information in the form of descriptions and measurements. It does not tell us the underlying reasons for anything. The Bible teaches that God is a God of order and not confusion. As a scientist looks at Creation, he not only recognizes orderliness in the structure of things, but his entire system is founded and dependent on its existence. Even the modern field of "chaos theory" is dependent upon observed events which are chaotic from man’s perspective but which still have certain characteristic qualities which render them capable of analysis. Thus, the Christian sees the orderliness of the universe as an outward expression of God’s innate orderliness. In one sense, science does not have the tools to determine this: there is no tool or instrument which can measure the boundaries of Deity, by the very definition of Deity. Yet, science is not necessarily completely silent on the issue either. Let’s consider the origin of life, which the Bible presents as among the greatest of God’s works. I believe that if an attempt is made to reduce the origin of life to purely natural, "scientific" causes, one ends up with nothing but dead ends and contradictions. This may not be what is typically taught by atheists within the science community, but I will attempt to justify this position over the next several chapters. Let’s suppose we can indeed show that one runs into dead ends and contradictions whenever he attempts to explain the origin of life through natural means exclusively, apart from intervention by God. Then we would be left with the only rational explanation for life being that God is its source. This in turn would imply that He exists. Furthermore, the Bible teaches that God considers this to be a valid argument. Therefore, a person should be very, very cautious about discarding it, particularly before he considers carefully the evidence. "The heavens declare the glory of God; and the expanse of heaven shows the work of His hands" (Psalm 19:1). "Let everything that has breath praise the Lord" (Psalm 150:6). . I hope this is helpful to anyone who is struggling with the age old debate of science and religion Creation and Evolution. It can be easily explained if one does not discard any valuable information such as we already know. This valuable information includes the theories that have come before us by the very scientists and theologists who have gone on now to know the truth. They were the forerunners of our own understanding of the universe in which we live whether they were Christian or not. Many still do not believe in the Creation theory, but I have always believed that evolution and Creation can go hand in hand if one accepts the theory of the "order of the universe" and will not discard a valuable variable such as God as fallacy, fantasy, or fairy tales. When we do this, there is a tendency to create confusion among the population as it would be to discard the variable of evolution. The two go hand in hand and should be treated as such. "…..For we trust we have a good conscience, in all things willing to live honestly
Response:
Question:
Recently I read a study on sibutramine (Meridia). I had read several others, but not recently. In this study patients on 5 mg lost more weight than those on placebo. Patients taking 20 mg lost far more than those taking 5 mg or placebo. All patients were consuming structured diets, using behavioral modification, and mild exercise. My question is this: since the drug appears useful in weight reduction (which I guess it’d have to be, to have ever been approved) why are so many people not seeing results with it? I know a few people have seen results, but the majority, myself included, have been disappointed. Why would prior phen-fen use make one less likely to benefit from Meridia (which seems to be the common opinion)? I only took Meridia for 4 weeks; I didn’t want to fork out that much money for another month if it wasn’t doing anything. Do the effects increase with time? The study I refer to was only a 12-week study, although none of the participants were currently using other meds, so phen users would have been excluded from the study. Any ideas? Adria
Response:
I’ve been on 10mg per day of Meridia for two weeks and I’ve lost 8 pounds. As a purely subjective speculation, I wonder if it may be effective for so few people because it may work on just a single cause of obesity, that being due to an out-of-whack appetite. For as long as I can remember I’ve been able to look at what most people would consider a normal sized portion of food and know before I ever start eating that my appetite won’t be satisfied until I eat two or three times that amount. This is even more of a problem with sweet and/or fatty foods than it is with things like fruits and vegetables. I also tend to think about food very frequently throughout the day and as a result eat frequent snacks. This is independent of habit, mood, emotional or physical condition or any other variable I can think of. The bottom line is I just seem to be hard-wired to overeat. The Meridia seems to have almost magically "reset" my perception of how much food is enough. I prepare small portions of relatively healthful, varied kinds of foods, and even though sometimes my stomach feels physically hungry, I can easily resist what is now a much weakened urge to snack or overeat. And although it’s a distant secondary consideration, the price of the medication is a motivating factor, too! I’d hate to be spending so much money on something that turned out to be ineffective. Of course I realize 2 weeks isn’t very long, but since my doctor is concerned about my gradually but steadily increasing blood pressure and has told me a weight loss of even 10 or 20 pounds will likely prevent my having to control it with medication, even the weight I’ve already lost is of beneft.
<most of reply snipped – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -4) In the Meridia studies, patients did the best on the larger doses (20 and 30 mg), but the blood pressure results were unacceptable. The largest dose Knoll could get approved was 15 mg. Of the surveys I’ve gotten (something like 300 of them), I’d say about 80 percent of the people were not satisfied with the results they got. Barbara Barbara Hirsch, Publisher Obesity Meds and Research News OMR Web Site: http://www.obesity-news.com
Response:
Why would prior phen-fen use make one less likely to benefit from Meridia (which seems to be the common opinion)?
Here are a few reasons: 1) Phentermine and fenfluramine are releasers and reuptake inhibitors, Meridia is only a reuptake inhibitor of norepinephrine and serotonin. 2) Phentermine works on dopamine, whereas Meridia has a very small action on dopamine (which is one of the reasons some folks get sleepy on it). 3) Most people develop some what of a tolerance to obesity medications after a while. So if you develop a tolerance, and you start taking a weaker drug, you are likely to see poor results. Of course, every one’s receptors are different, and YMMV. 4) In the Meridia studies, patients did the best on the larger doses (20 and 30 mg), but the blood pressure results were unacceptable. The largest dose Knoll could get approved was 15 mg. Of the surveys I’ve gotten (something like 300 of them), I’d say about 80 percent of the people were not satisfied with the results they got. Barbara Barbara Hirsch, Publisher Obesity Meds and Research News OMR Web Site: http://www.obesity-news.com
Response:
I’ve been on 10mg per day of Meridia for two weeks and I’ve lost 8 pounds. As a purely subjective speculation, I wonder if it may be effective for so few people because it may work on just a single cause of obesity, that being due to an out-of-whack appetite.
Meridia doesn’t work on any cause of obesity, it’s an appetite suppressant, and the serotonin component *may* help with OCD. But the jury is still out on that. But phen/fen didn’t work on a cause of obesity either. At this point in time researchers conclude that a variety of "susceptibility genes" cause people to be obese. The only way you could accurately treat an obese person is by knowing what those genes were, and then develop drugs or gene therapy to treat. We are many, many years from that point. I can easily resist what is now a much weakened urge to snack or overeat. And although it’s a distant secondary consideration, the price of the medication is a motivating factor, too! I’d hate to be spending so much money on something that turned out to be ineffective.
I’m glad it’s working for you. There’s no arguing with success <G! Of course I realize 2 weeks isn’t very long
No it isn’t. Let me know how you feel in another six months. If you still think it’s effective. Barbara Barbara Hirsch, Publisher Obesity Meds and Research News OMR Web Site: http://www.obesity-news.com
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Recently I read a study on sibutramine (Meridia). I had read several others, but not recently. In this study patients on 5 mg lost more weight than those on placebo. Patients taking 20 mg lost far more than those taking 5 mg or placebo. All patients were consuming structured diets, using behavioral modification, and mild exercise. My question is this: since the drug appears useful in weight reduction (which I guess it’d have to be, to have ever been approved) why are so many people not seeing results with it? I know a few people have seen results, but the majority, myself included, have been disappointed. Why would prior phen-fen use make one less likely to benefit from Meridia (which seems to be the common opinion)? I only took Meridia for 4 weeks; I didn’t want to fork out that much money for another month if it wasn’t doing anything. Do the effects increase with time? The study I refer to was only a 12-week study, although none of the participants were currently using other meds, so phen users would have been excluded from the study.
My own belief is that the mechanisms involved are quite different. If you were having success with phen/fen, this points heavily in the direction of problems with serotonin levels (Phen increases the release of serotonin, fen slows down the reabsobtion). Meridia does not greatly affect the serotonin levels – it works (when it works) in other ways. So it PROBABLY would be true in the other direction as well – IF you are helped by Meridia the odds would be good that Phen/Fen wouldn’t help you much (if you could get it).
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My own belief is that the mechanisms involved are quite different. If you were having success with phen/fen, this points heavily in the direction of problems with serotonin levels (Phen increases the release of serotonin, fen slows down the reabsobtion).
Phentermine is thought to act by releasing dopamine and retarding its reuptake. I’ve never heard of it affecting serotonin. Meridia does not greatly affect the serotonin levels – it works (when it works) in other ways.
Siburamine is, like venlafaxine (Effexor), a NE/SRI, reducing the reuptake of both norepinephrine and serotonin. — Steve Dyer
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Harold, I read what you wrote about Phentermine. You got it all wrong. I’d suggest reading the articles on Phentermine on the web site for Rx on the Internet. Love your Dutch name. I am Dutch also. John Bowen Nipomo, California http://www.thegrid.net/jhbowen/life.htm "Too bad the only people who know how to run this country are too busy driving cabs and cutting hair." — George Burns
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phentermine releases stored norepinephrine. Main site of activity appears to be thecerebral cortex and the reticular activating system. Promotes nerve impulse transmissions by releasing stored norepinephrine from nerve terminals in the brain.
I always understood amphetamine, phentermine and the like worked (to the extent that we know how any of these drugs "work") by enhancing the release and reducing the reuptake of dopamine, not NE. — Steve Dyer
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phentermine releases stored norepinephrine. Main site of activity appears to be thecerebral cortex and the reticular activating system. Promotes nerve impulse transmissions by releasing stored norepinephrine from nerve terminals in the brain.
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Steve, Since sibutramine inhibits re-uptake of serotonin and dopamine, do you think that Wellbutrin (buproprion) would also work for weight loss since it is a dopamine-reuptake inhibitor? Thanks! Cindy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – phentermine releases stored norepinephrine. Main site of activity appears to be thecerebral cortex and the reticular activating system. Promotes nerve impulse transmissions by releasing stored norepinephrine from nerve terminals in the brain. I always understood amphetamine, phentermine and the like worked (to the extent that we know how any of these drugs "work") by enhancing the release and reducing the reuptake of dopamine, not NE. — Steve Dyer
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Since sibutramine inhibits re-uptake of serotonin and dopamine, do you
Serotonin and norepinephrine. think that Wellbutrin (buproprion) would also work for weight loss since it is a dopamine-reuptake inhibitor?
Although bupropion is one of the few antidepressants that rarely causes weight gain, and often causes a slight amount of weight loss in people taking it for depression, and even though it’s chemically related to the anorectic drug diethylpropion (Tenuate), I don’t think it’s a very powerful drug when it comes to weight loss. — Steve Dyer
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If one is already taking Prozac, is it safe to try Meridia? I used Fen/Phen and Prozac successfully with no side affects and had good results in weight loss, FM pain relief, and depression control. My doctor is recommending Meridia, but would like to have me discontinue the Prozac, I’m worried about removing the Prozac. Have been advised by other doctors not to stop taking it because of previous "crashes" following attempts to come off it.
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If one is already taking Prozac, is it safe to try Meridia?
Meridia product info specifically states "no Prozac." My doctor said the same thing. Weening off Prozac should help "crashes." This is conjecture…I "crashed" big time 4 weeks after stopping cold (only 20mg dose/day). It was not fun, but only lasted about 2 weeks. Waited another week before starting Meridia and am not having any difficulty. I used Fen/Phen and Prozac successfully with no side affects and had good results in weight loss, FM pain relief, and depression control. My doctor is recommending Meridia, but would like to have me discontinue the Prozac, I’m worried about removing the Prozac. Have been advised by other doctors not to stop taking it because of previous "crashes" following attempts to come off it.
– Mary
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I don’t know about Meridia, but if it’s like Phentermine you CAN’T take Prozac with it. Please refer to an MIT study posted at: http://drugawareness.org/MIT.html Appetite suppressants are MAO inhibitors and cause an internal battlefield when paired with anti-depressant drugs such as Prozac (or fenfluramine, the phen/fen combo we all know and love.) From the article: "Maher said that the information that appears on drug labels, in the Physician’s Desk Reference and on package inserts that reach consumers is negotiated between the manufacturer and the FDA."When the labels for phentermine and Sudafed were negotiated, their MAO inhibitory activity was not known or appreciated or considered to be important. And apparently there was no requirement for phentermine’s label to be updated 20 years ago when it was first shown to be an MAO inhibitor," he said. The new findings also probably explain why only a handful of the tens of millions of patients outside America who took drugs in the fenfluramine family without phentermine developed pulmonary hypertension or heart valve lesions, and almost all of these people were also taking other drugs that we have found are unrecognized MAO inhibitors," he said." So, my advice would be to find out if Meridia (like all other appetite suppresants is an MAO inhibitor). If so, Prozac and Meridia can be a dangerous combination. Good luck – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If one is already taking Prozac, is it safe to try Meridia? Meridia product info specifically states "no Prozac." My doctor said the same thing. Weening off Prozac should help "crashes." This is conjecture…I "crashed" big time 4 weeks after stopping cold (only 20mg dose/day). It was not fun, but only lasted about 2 weeks. Waited another week before starting Meridia and am not having any difficulty. I used Fen/Phen and Prozac successfully with no side affects and had good results in weight loss, FM pain relief, and depression control. My doctor is recommending Meridia, but would like to have me discontinue the Prozac, I’m worried about removing the Prozac. Have been advised by other doctors not to stop taking it because of previous "crashes" following attempts to come off it. — Mary
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I don’t know about Meridia, but if it’s like Phentermine you CAN’T take Prozac with it.
There’s no absolute contraindication in taking phentermine with Prozac. Please refer to an MIT study posted at: http://drugawareness.org/MIT.html Appetite suppressants are MAO inhibitors and cause an internal battlefield when paired with anti-depressant drugs such as Prozac (or fenfluramine, the phen/fen combo we all know and love.)
Appetite suppressants like amphetamine and phentermine are "MAO inhibitors" only in an extremely restricted sense; one with unproven clinical relevance, despite the claims on that web page. The reason you wouldn’t want to take Prozac and Meridia together is that they both act as serotonin-reuptake inhibitors (with Meridia also acting as a norepinephrine-reuptake inhibitor.) — Steve Dyer
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. Have you talked to your doctor about this? There are some relatively safe medications available for controlling acne (eg. antibiotics), and I suppose after that, you have to figure out what happened. It may be, and I am only guessing, that if the spray caused the reaction, it might be an immune response (allergy related, perhaps?), which would likely take a while to go down 
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