Question:

Hello, 1981 Cadillac DeVille – The power antenna has issues. In fact, the motor just whirs continuously when plugged in. (The antenna was broken off this one.) I went to a salvage yard and found another one with an antenna, but this has the same problem as the original (motors engages, won’t shut off.) Are these rebuildable? It looks like it can come apart, and I’m assuming the wire that moves the antenna up and down is broken on the new(er) one. If I can take 2 and make one then I would be happy, but am not sure if I’m wasting my time. Auto parts stores have generic ones that don’t fit most vehicles. The factory one is much simpler to re/re. (Much easier than I thought it would be.) I haven’t tried the dealer yet, as most parts from my year have been discontinued. Thanks, Daniel

Response:

Some power antennas can be repaired. Many have a slender toothed rod or strip inside. The motor catches the teeth in the strip and runs the antenna up and down. You may be able to build one good antenna from the two.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, 1981 Cadillac DeVille – The power antenna has issues. In fact, the motor just whirs continuously when plugged in. (The antenna was broken off this one.) I went to a salvage yard and found another one with an antenna, but this has the same problem as the original (motors engages, won’t shut off.) Are these rebuildable? It looks like it can come apart, and I’m assuming the wire that moves the antenna up and down is broken on the new(er) one. If I can take 2 and make one then I would be happy, but am not sure if I’m wasting my time. Auto parts stores have generic ones that don’t fit most vehicles. The factory one is much simpler to re/re. (Much easier than I thought it would be.) I haven’t tried the dealer yet, as most parts from my year have been discontinued. Thanks, Daniel

Response:

GM sells a mast repair kit for most of their antennas.  I think I paid about $20 last time I had to buy one, as opposed to about $100 for an entire new antenna assembly.  You just have to remove and disassemble the antenna and install the new plastic "wire" that raises and lowers the mast. Mike – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, 1981 Cadillac DeVille – The power antenna has issues. In fact, the motor just whirs continuously when plugged in. (The antenna was broken off this one.) I went to a salvage yard and found another one with an antenna, but this has the same problem as the original (motors engages, won’t shut off.) Are these rebuildable? It looks like it can come apart, and I’m assuming the wire that moves the antenna up and down is broken on the new(er) one. If I can take 2 and make one then I would be happy, but am not sure if I’m wasting my time. Auto parts stores have generic ones that don’t fit most vehicles. The factory one is much simpler to re/re. (Much easier than I thought it would be.) I haven’t tried the dealer yet, as most parts from my year have been discontinued. Thanks, Daniel

Response:

GM sells a mast repair kit for most of their antennas.  I think I paid about $20 last time I had to buy one, as opposed to about $100 for an entire new antenna assembly.  You just have to remove and disassemble the antenna and install the new plastic "wire" that raises and lowers the mast. Mike

I just went through this with my girlfriends Buick.  Autozone listed a power antenna direct replacement for this one for about $50. NAPA had an adaptor which allows ordinary antennae to be installed and connected to the unusual power antenna connector.  I used the ordinary antenna. NAPA also had the mast repair kits to fix the old units.

Response:

There is a limit switch on the internal mechanism that senses the position of the staff, this is probably bent or broken, very common on those units, short of a new ass’y, you would need a couple of old ones to use all the parts to make one good one, they don’t have to be from a Cadillac, only the mt. bkts are different.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, 1981 Cadillac DeVille – The power antenna has issues. In fact, the motor just whirs continuously when plugged in. (The antenna was broken off this one.) I went to a salvage yard and found another one with an antenna, but this has the same problem as the original (motors engages, won’t shut off.) Are these rebuildable? It looks like it can come apart, and I’m assuming the wire that moves the antenna up and down is broken on the new(er) one. If I can take 2 and make one then I would be happy, but am not sure if I’m wasting my time. Auto parts stores have generic ones that don’t fit most vehicles. The factory one is much simpler to re/re. (Much easier than I thought it would be.) I haven’t tried the dealer yet, as most parts from my year have been discontinued. Thanks, Daniel

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Response:

Well, The dealer doesn’t stock the mast repair kits anymore, and all they have is a "universal" kit as well. $220!! What a pain. I’ll try NAPA tomorrow and see if they have anything. Most auto parts places around here just have the universal fits. Hopefully NAPA has a *repair* kit. Thanks for all the replies, Daniel – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There is a limit switch on the internal mechanism that senses the position of the staff, this is probably bent or broken, very common on those units, short of a new ass’y, you would need a couple of old ones to use all the parts to make one good one, they don’t have to be from a Cadillac, only the mt. bkts are different. Hello, 1981 Cadillac DeVille – The power antenna has issues. In fact, the motor just whirs continuously when plugged in. (The antenna was broken off this one.) I went to a salvage yard and found another one with an antenna, but this has the same problem as the original (motors engages, won’t shut off.) Are these rebuildable? It looks like it can come apart, and I’m assuming the wire that moves the antenna up and down is broken on the new(er) one. If I can take 2 and make one then I would be happy, but am not sure if I’m wasting my time. Auto parts stores have generic ones that don’t fit most vehicles. The factory one is much simpler to re/re. (Much easier than I thought it would be.) I haven’t tried the dealer yet, as most parts from my year have been discontinued. Thanks, Daniel —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

Hello, 1981 Cadillac DeVille – The power antenna has issues. In fact, the motor just whirs continuously when plugged in. (The antenna was broken off this one.) I went to a salvage yard and found another one with an antenna, but this has the same problem as the original (motors engages, won’t shut off.)

In my Honda, I had the same problem… It was a really wet day, and when I shut off my radio, the antenna comes down and once it’s fully retracted, the motor keeps on going. and it wouldn’t stop. I had to remove the fuse b/c it was really loud! anyways, I took it apart, and there was a relay with 3 wires connected to it. +, -. Blue Radio Wire. Most likely, your relay is broken or cracked and water is shorting it. depending on how skillful you are, you can goto a electronics store and buy the same part. you will have to do some soddering.

Response:

Broken cord assemblies are the common cause for this problem in GM automobiles. Don’t overlook calling an AC-Delco distributor if there is one near your location.  They stock many parts, and that is where I was last able to get the nylon cord assembly, about two years ago.  I did find the number in the GM catalog though, I wish I still had it so I could give it to you. The local company here is Rowerdink.  www.rowerdink.com Worth a try, if you are still looking.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, 1981 Cadillac DeVille – The power antenna has issues. In fact, the motor just whirs continuously when plugged in. (The antenna was broken off this one.) I went to a salvage yard and found another one with an antenna, but this has the same problem as the original (motors engages, won’t shut off.) In my Honda, I had the same problem… It was a really wet day, and when I shut off my radio, the antenna comes down and once it’s fully retracted, the motor keeps on going. and it wouldn’t stop. I had to remove the fuse b/c it was really loud! anyways, I took it apart, and there was a relay with 3 wires connected to it. +, -. Blue Radio Wire. Most likely, your relay is broken or cracked and water is shorting it. depending on how skillful you are, you can goto a electronics store and buy the same part. you will have to do some soddering.

Response:

These units are probably the same thru several years if you can find one from a wrecked 79-83 Caddie or any GM car for that matter that used the power unit. Roy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, 1981 Cadillac DeVille – The power antenna has issues. In fact, the motor just whirs continuously when plugged in. (The antenna was broken off this one.) I went to a salvage yard and found another one with an antenna, but this has the same problem as the original (motors engages, won’t shut off.) In my Honda, I had the same problem… It was a really wet day, and when I shut off my radio, the antenna comes down and once it’s fully retracted, the motor keeps on going. and it wouldn’t stop. I had to remove the fuse b/c it was really loud! anyways, I took it apart, and there was a relay with 3 wires connected to it. +, -. Blue Radio Wire. Most likely, your relay is broken or cracked and water is shorting it. depending on how skillful you are, you can goto a electronics store and buy the same part. you will have to do some soddering.

Response:

I’m a used auto dealer and these things are a real pain.  I have gone to the junk yard and removed a manual mast antenna from a GM car and installed it in place of the power one.  If you are careful you can get one that mounts up nearly exactly to the original and your problems are over.  Usually on late model Caddys I do replace the entire assembly though…just because it’s a Caddy.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, 1981 Cadillac DeVille – The power antenna has issues. In fact, the motor just whirs continuously when plugged in. (The antenna was broken off this one.) I went to a salvage yard and found another one with an antenna, but this has the same problem as the original (motors engages, won’t shut off.) Are these rebuildable? It looks like it can come apart, and I’m assuming the wire that moves the antenna up and down is broken on the new(er) one. If I can take 2 and make one then I would be happy, but am not sure if I’m wasting my time. Auto parts stores have generic ones that don’t fit most vehicles. The factory one is much simpler to re/re. (Much easier than I thought it would be.) I haven’t tried the dealer yet, as most parts from my year have been discontinued. Thanks, Daniel

Response:

Hey thanks! They have a few in stock. All I gotta do is wait till payday and see how much shipping costs to Canada. The dealers around here can’t get them anymore. Daniel

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Broken cord assemblies are the common cause for this problem in GM automobiles. Don’t overlook calling an AC-Delco distributor if there is one near your location.  They stock many parts, and that is where I was last able to get the nylon cord assembly, about two years ago.  I did find the number in the GM catalog though, I wish I still had it so I could give it to you. The local company here is Rowerdink.  www.rowerdink.com Worth a try, if you are still looking. Hello, 1981 Cadillac DeVille – The power antenna has issues. In fact, the motor just whirs continuously when plugged in. (The antenna was broken off this one.) I went to a salvage yard and found another one with an antenna, but this has the same problem as the original (motors engages, won’t shut off.) In my Honda, I had the same problem… It was a really wet day, and when I shut off my radio, the antenna comes down and once it’s fully retracted, the motor keeps on going. and it wouldn’t stop. I had to remove the fuse b/c it was really loud! anyways, I took it apart, and there was a relay with 3 wires connected to it. +, -. Blue Radio Wire. Most likely, your relay is broken or cracked and water is shorting it. depending on how skillful you are, you can goto a electronics store and buy the same part. you will have to do some soddering.

Response:

I had similar problem in my ‘87 DeVille.  The fix is more of a PITA than I care for, so my solution was to extend the antenna and pull the fuse….. Watching the antenna go up/down was as impressive as it use to be anyway….LOL Cheap ‘fix’…. Dave S

Response:

Question:

I stopped taking my asthma medications altogether 2 weeks ago, the reason being is because I would simply just forget to take my inhalers, I know it wa a foolish thing to do but i didnt want to go through the same terrible side effects all over again. But since I stopped taking them, Ive felt very jittery like my heart is racing, and I have pain in my chest which wakes me up at night. Not only that but I wake up sometimes with slight bruising that seems to fade away as soon as I start moving my limbs. If I cut myself or bump my leg, I will bruise very easily. Iwant to take my medicine but Im scared of the side effects, is it possible that IF you stop taking your medicine very abruptly, you can get a chest infection or get sick?? I whole heartedly appreciate your responses. Im trying to find a new doctor also because I one I have isnt a nice person. CORAL

Response:

Hi Sue, I was taking Serevent and Flovent two puffs each twice daily, I just  came from the Emergency room and the doctors checked me out. I had a physical and had my heart monitored. The doctor on call said that my heart palps were under 100 which is good and I seem to be in relatively good health, I wasnt weazing or having an attack. He also said that my type of asthma is not severe enough to be put on a permanent flovent/serevent regimend. Which is probably why I am feeling jittery along with the pain. His motto is if its not broke dont fix it and I whole heartedly agree with him. I dont have attacks unless Im exposed to something Im allergic to like dander or peanuts.  I was finally happy to know that it was the medicine that was causing these feelings. And Now Im just going to carry the proventil with me on an as need basis. And FIND A NEW DOCTOR. CORAL

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I stopped taking my asthma medications altogether 2 weeks ago, the reason being is because I would simply just forget to take my inhalers, I know it wa a foolish thing to do but i didnt want to go through the same terrible side effects all over again. But since I stopped taking them, Ive felt very jittery like my heart is racing, and I have pain in my chest which wakes me up at night. Not only that but I wake up sometimes with slight bruising that seems to fade away as soon as I start moving my limbs. If I cut myself or bump my leg, I will bruise very easily. Iwant to take my medicine but Im scared of the side effects, is it possible that IF you stop taking your medicine very abruptly, you can get a chest infection or get sick?? I whole heartedly appreciate your responses. Im trying to find a new doctor also because I one I have isnt a nice person. CORAL

 What medications were you taking?  Was one of them an oral steroid? Your symptoms are not good, you need to be checked out ASAP by a doctor. Sue Official Secretary of OSGSL Dogs think they’re human Cats think they’re God

Response:

Hi Sue, I was taking Serevent and Flovent two puffs each twice daily, I just  came from the Emergency room and the doctors checked me out. I had a physical and had my heart monitored. The doctor on call said that my heart palps were under 100 which is good and I seem to be in relatively good health, I wasnt weazing or having an attack. He also said that my type of asthma is not severe enough to be put on a permanent flovent/serevent regimend. Which is probably why I am feeling jittery along with the pain. His motto is if its not broke dont fix it and I whole heartedly agree with him. I dont have attacks unless Im exposed to something Im allergic to like dander or peanuts.  I was finally happy to know that it was the medicine that was causing these feelings. And Now Im just going to carry the proventil with me on an as need basis. And FIND A NEW DOCTOR.

Did they do a pulmonary function test?  IMHO, they can’t determine how serious your asthma is without it.  Make sure you keep the proventil with you at all times and use it the second you feel tight.  And DO see a good doctor.  Ask around, someone should be able to recommend one.  If you don’t like that doctor, don’t be afraid to change.  I had two different family doctors before I found the best one in the area.  And he has done wonders for my asthma. Sue CORAL

Official Secretary of OSGSL Dogs think they’re human Cats think they’re God

Response:

Question:

I

am getting realy concerned – having another huge panic attack and Ijust went to

the pdoc yessterday. On Zoloft and Ativan.  If I don’t get this worked out soon

I could be in trouble…. MAC Mac, didn’t you say you’re on 25 mg Zoloft?  I think this is way too much to start out on – no wonder you’re feeling panicky. Try cutting that pill in quarters and take one of those a day.  Then add one quarter per week.  Most doctors just don’t seem to realize how sensitive some of us are to meds.  That’s why so many people think they don’t work for them. Dot

Response:

Hi, Mac, I would assume it is a short-lived side effect of the antidepressant.  Don’t fret, just let the feelings pass and try to tell yourself it is just a side effect and will go away in a couple of days…   ((((((Mac)))))) smiles, Elise

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am getting realy concerned – having another huge panic attack and Ijust went to the pdoc yessterday. On Zoloft and Ativan.  If I don’t get this worked out soon I could be in trouble…. MAC

Response:

Hey Mac, steady on.  It WILL pass!  Its just a sneaky SOB.  Can’t see it, can’t control it, damn it.  We all know the feeling! Just a question for you, when do you take which meds? I discovered that I cannot take the atenolol in the AM, I have to take it at night before bedtime. I go to sleep quicker and don’t notice any other side effect. If I take it in the AM I’m crashing –feel faint and dizzy, just like a PA– about 2 hours later.  When I take it in  the AM my pulse rate is about 60 at 11 AM, when I most need to be percolating at full steam and starting the restaurant workday. I know you said a few  weeks ago that the atenolol didn’t affect you anymore, but you might look at it again.  Sometimes just an increment of personal  control can shift our inner stabilizer  to a more neutral position. You can also take the zoloft at night, or now, as you wean on, take half in the AM and half at bedtime.  Zoloft is "splittable".  I did that for financial reasons in the past, 100 mg Zoloft costs the same as 50 mg, so my rx were written for 100 mg and take 1/2 daily, saved me a bundle of money when I paid out of pocket!!! YMMV yada yada but use what tools you have to accomodate this bump.  You’ll be on the other side of the hump soon! HUGS, Mac.  Hang ON! Sue

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am getting realy concerned – having another huge panic attack and Ijust went to the pdoc yessterday. On Zoloft and Ativan.  If I don’t get this worked out soon I could be in trouble…. MAC

Response:

:I am getting realy concerned – having another huge panic attack and Ijust :went to the pdoc yessterday. On Zoloft and Ativan.  If I don’t get this :worked out soon I could be in trouble…. MAC Dear Mac, "Sometimes" antidepressants can "temporarily" increase anxiety while weaning on them. Now…….I`m not saying that zoloft caused your panic, only your doctor could make that determination but he needs to know about this. Call your doctor!  Take care. Jackie ~*~As soon as you trust yourself you will know how to live~*~      ~Johann Wolfgang Von Goethe~

Response:

I am getting realy concerned – having another huge panic attack and Ijust went to the pdoc yessterday. On Zoloft and Ativan.  If I don’t get this worked out soon I could be in trouble…. MAC

MAC you are starting to get really boring. You are a smart guy. You have been told many times how the meds work, that they take time. I’m sorry you don’t have the time, but until the meds level off you are best to take a bedroll and park your butt on your docs doorstep. Or convince one of these ASAP types you are so fond of to come stay with you for a few days. I’m sure any number of them would like an expenses paid trip to Seattle.<g

Response:

Please call your doctor Mac!  You’ve been having extremely high anxiety because of this job situation.  I’m not surprised that you had another PA. Please call and get some assurance from him.  Try to breathe slowly in Di

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am getting realy concerned – having another huge panic attack and Ijust went to the pdoc yessterday. On Zoloft and Ativan.  If I don’t get this worked out soon I could be in trouble…. MAC

Response:

I am getting realy concerned – having another huge panic attack and Ijust went to the pdoc yessterday. On Zoloft and Ativan.  If I don’t get this worked out soon I could be in trouble…. MAC

Yes what Jackie said is true.  I tried Prozac a year back without a benzo and quit REAL QUICK.  IT made my anxiety terrible.  so now I have gone a year without it and am getting ready to start a benzo.  I am thinking after being on a benzo for a month or so I might try an AD. Mac just know that it is probably the SSRI causing the extra anxiety and that once you get used to it and have the benzo for a back up you will probably feel better than you have in YEARS!  I like the idea of an SSRI long term but not until I get on a benzo and get calmed down.  I also have a big move coming up soon. Why I finally decided to get a benzo  :) Good Luck! Dustin

Response:

I am getting realy concerned – having another huge panic attack and Ijust went to the pdoc yessterday. On Zoloft and Ativan.  If I don’t get this worked out soon I could be in trouble…. MAC

Response:

I disagree with your response that a hallucinagen did NOT give a PA. Ever since a hullucinaginec triggered my first one, I have had them pretty bad for awhile. I never had one prior, and even though I have not used in over two years I still get them occasionally.

I thought the same thing for years – that a bad trip gave me years of anxiety and panic. At some point, though, I realized I had always been a "weird" kid, had nightmares all the time and a lot of fears. I think an intense drug experience can reconnect you to your primal fears, but it doesn’t change who you are. In fact, I’m more relaxed now than I was _before_ the drug experience, because I’ve faced some of the fears that I had tucked away in the back of my mind. Therapists have always told me that the bad trip didn’t really matter; maybe I’ve finally been brainwashed. But I remember obsessing endlessly for the first 2 years: "Why did I ever take that trip? I’m never going to be the same again!". That obsession fed my panic much more than any actual memory of the experience. I agree that there’s a certain trauma that we can go through as a result of a bad experience, but the mind can heal itself over time. This is why I think that PTSD may be different from panic disorder. I sure would like a real psychiatrist to clear this up for me!                                                               I am soooooo relieved that I am not the only person to feel likeme. It seems that no one else has residual effects. Also, I refuse to take Xanax, due to the fact that its addictive. Drugs have made me so paranoid to take anything including tylenol. I wish I could share my experiance with everyone so no one else has to go though it. Whoops, didnt mean to climb up a soap box, just happy to hear ( dismally ) that i am not the only one…

Me too. I didn’t know anything about PD for years; I just assumed that I had damaged my brain and was going to pay for the rest of my life. Thank God for the healing power of the mind. I’m still not sure that it matters whether we have our first PA while on a drug, in an exam, or on a plane – a PA is miserable no matter what triggers it! One more thing – like you, I was once very reluctant to go near ANY drug. I guess you only need to get burned once to stay away from the stove. BUT, looking back, I wish I had looked into meds, as they would have helped a lot (and did in later years). As long as you’re under doctor’s supervision, there’s no reason to fear Xanax or any other _prescription_ drug. YMMV, but I think most here will tell you that meds helped, rather than hurt them. Good luck! John S.

Response:

I disagree with your response that a hallucinagen did NOT give a PA. Ever since a hullucinaginec triggered my first one, I have had them pretty bad for awhile. I never had one prior, and even though I have not used in over two years I still get them occasionally. I am soooooo relieved that I am not the only person to feel likeme. It seems that no one else has residual effects. Also, I refuse to take Xanax, due to the fact that its addictive. Drugs have made me so paranoid to take anything including tylenol. I wish I could share my experiance with everyone so no one else has to go though it. Whoops, didnt mean to climb up a soap box, just happy to hear ( dismally ) that i am not – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Matthew, It’s not uncommon for a hallucinogenic drug to trigger a first PA. However, this doesn’t mean that the experience GAVE you panic disorder (which you may not even have). It’s important to keep the one-time drug experience in perspective, and not obsess about it. All I can say is, focus on how you’re feeling NOW, and forget about the initial trigger, which is by now inconsequential. Follow some of the great advice on ASAP. I would advise you not to tell the MD about the drug use, because he may not prescribe what you need. Doctors vary widely on this; I had one doctor who wouldn’t prescribe Xanax because I have been sober for 5 years (I quit drinking, so he assumed that I have a tendency toward addiction). BTW, your post describes my foray into panic disorder (in 1982) very well. Don’t let it get you down; you’ll survive this! Cheers, John S.

Response:

Matthew, It’s not uncommon for a hallucinogenic drug to trigger a first PA. However, this doesn’t mean that the experience GAVE you panic disorder (which you may not even have). It’s important to keep the one-time drug experience in perspective, and not obsess about it. All I can say is, focus on how you’re feeling NOW, and forget about the initial trigger, which is by now inconsequential. Follow some of the great advice on ASAP. I would advise you not to tell the MD about the drug use, because he may not prescribe what you need. Doctors vary widely on this; I had one doctor who wouldn’t prescribe Xanax because I have been sober for 5 years (I quit drinking, so he assumed that I have a tendency toward addiction). BTW, your post describes my foray into panic disorder (in 1982) very well. Don’t let it get you down; you’ll survive this! Cheers, John S.

Response:

        Hi, this is my first time posting here so please bare with me. I’ll start off by saying that I have no idea what is going on with me, and I’m looking for info, help, whatever you can give me.         I’m 21, male and untill now, pretty outgoing. about three months ago, I smoked some marijuana with a new workmate (something I never do) I had a very bad experience with it (I’m not sure what you’re supposed to feel like when high, but I’m sure this was not what it was supposed to feel like) well, I eventualy came down, about two weeks later, late at night, I’m readying myself for a shower, and BAM, I feel like I did when I was high that day, now I am going to have a hard time explaining what it feels like, but I’ll give it my best shot.         I feel like I can’t think, even know I can, concentration is all but gone, I feel real tence, like I can’t calm down, can’t even realy watch TV. I get mild heart palpitations, and sometimes I get this feeling of not being real, my vision is funny, but I can’t explain that, KIND of like double vision, but not realy. and sometimes I get this feeling that washes over me and is gone within say 5 – 10 seconds, like I am realy zoned out.         this has been going on ever since. a few weeks ago, it started to get better, and I was starting to enjoy life again, and do the things I once had, then this last monday, I got a migraine, it went away, the folowing night I got another one, and I took some migraine pain reliefe wich got rid of it, well, as the migrain went away, that feeling came back, and it’s been with me again ever since.         I went to the doctor shortly after I started feeling like this and he gave me recomendation for blood work, wich I couldn’t afford seeing as I have not been able to work since this started happening.         PLEASE don’t judge me for the drug use as it is something I do not do. any onfo or similar experiences would VERY much be apreciated. thank you so much for your time, Matthew.

Response:

I was just fine an hour or so ago.  But my life is way stressful right now.  I’m having chest pains and shortness of breath, thinking irrationally.  Well, at least I know I am thinking irrationally! Somebody please TELL ME I’M NOT DYING.

Response:

I was just fine an hour or so ago.  But my life is way stressful right now.  I’m having chest pains and shortness of breath, thinking irrationally.  Well, at least I know I am thinking irrationally! Somebody please TELL ME I’M NOT DYING.

Wendy – you are *NOT* dying! Really! What’s happening is that you are having a panic attack. I’d say "that’s all" but no one who has ever suffered one would underplay the vicious terror of these things. Please just hang on in there and, if you’re not, *get some treatment*…. Keep posting, keep reading – please let us try to help you. <hug — Gary Cooper

Response:

Somebody please TELL ME I’M NOT DYING.

My dear Wendy, As long as you are able to read this message, you are definitely NOT DYING! Get an ice cream, and go and watch the telly… try not to think about the fact that you are probably in the middle of a major (easier said than done, I know). If you are reading this message 24 hours after posting yours, then you know you got through it! Yours, PaNick!

Response:

I don’t think so

Response:

I am in another crisis, After 2 1/2 months on Serzone  I am realizing its just not working that well. I still get nausea, have a strange feeling in my head with some remaining dizziness and lightheadedness and these constant tension headaches! I have been communicating online with the "Panic Disorder Institute" and getting new information on things like how the PD links with the somatic symptoms and it certainly looks like I have an acid reflux condition from the panic and anxiety that causes my inner ear, sinus and throat problems and my digestive problems. This doc recommends Xanax and Carfate for this. But I’m scared again because I’m not sure about trying another benzo and getting to a high enough dose to do any good. But there are other AD’s. He puts Trofranil way up there as a good panic / anxiety medication. What do you think? Desperate, Melodee

Response:

Melodee writes:

<< I am in another crisis, After 2 1/2 months on Serzone  I am realizing its just not working that well. I still get nausea, have a strange feeling in my head with some remaining dizziness and lightheadedness and these constant tension headaches! Hi Melodee! I had a very bad reaction to Serzone, including constant headaches…my pdoc told me there is a small percentage of people who will react badly to this particular drug because of a liver enzyme that reacts to it. I don’t know if this is what is happening to you, but my pdoc felt that was the problem with me…at any rate, you shouldn’t be having constant headaches! I think it’s time to get off the Serzone… << I have been communicating online with the "Panic Disorder Institute" and getting new information on things like how the PD links with the somatic symptoms and it certainly looks like I have an acid reflux condition from the panic and anxiety that causes my inner ear, sinus and throat problems and my digestive problems. This doc recommends Xanax and Carfate for this. But I’m scared again because I’m not sure about trying another benzo and getting to a high enough dose to do any good. But there are other AD’s. He puts Trofranil way up there as a good panic / anxiety medication. What do you think? Desperate, Melodee I have read Dr. Shipko’s reserach with great interest, and, although I have not directly communicated with him, I feel that his approach and findings make a LOT of sense…JMO. I DO know that Tofranil is a good med for PD. I also, however, am a huge believer in Xanax…without it, no matter WHAT ad I was on, I had no panic relief. I take 4-5 mgs. of Xanax per day…many people feel that is a "high" dose, but it has worked consistantly for me for about 10 years straight. As you know, everyone’s mileage varies when it comes to dosing, but I believe Xanax is sure worth a try!!! I know trying new meds is scary, but suffering with bad side effects and/or panic is NOT necessary! If I were you, I’d try another med, and give yourself a chance to start feeling better!!!:) Hang in…you are not alone! Best, ~~Char*) "You’re just jealous because the little voices talk to ME!"

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am in another crisis, After 2 1/2 months on Serzone  I am realizing its just not working that well. I still get nausea, have a strange feeling in my head with some remaining dizziness and lightheadedness and these constant tension headaches! I have been communicating online with the "Panic Disorder Institute" and getting new information on things like how the PD links with the somatic symptoms and it certainly looks like I have an acid reflux condition from the panic and anxiety that causes my inner ear, sinus and throat problems and my digestive problems. This doc recommends Xanax and Carfate for this. But I’m scared again because I’m not sure about trying another benzo and getting to a high enough dose to do any good. But there are other AD’s. He puts Trofranil way up there as a good panic / anxiety medication. What do you think? Desperate, Melodee

 I had terrible results with Serzone too. Tofranil is known to be a good panic/anxiety med. Personally after years of different medication trials I take Nortriptyline, which is in the same class as Tofranil, with xanax (and a very small amount of Prozac) and it is the best combination I have ever been on and I will happily stay on it for the rest of my life is needs be. I have to say though..the xanax has saved my life and made me a free and healthy person finally..I know there are a lot of scary stories about addiction and blah blah out there but for a lot of us with this type of disorder it is a very very good medication. I also follow the PDI BBS and read what Dr. Shipko writes and I have a great deal of respect for his opinions and advice. I would give the Tofranil a try, with xanax in lower doses if you are afraid to go the higher dosage route with Xanax alone. Best of luck to you and please post how it goes!  May — "Every time I feel the urge to exercise, I lie down until it goes away."                 – Mark Twain

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am in another crisis, After 2 1/2 months on Serzone  I am realizing its just not working that well. I still get nausea, have a strange feeling in my head with some remaining dizziness and lightheadedness and these constant tension headaches! I have been communicating online with the "Panic Disorder Institute" and getting new information on things like how the PD links with the somatic symptoms and it certainly looks like I have an acid reflux condition from the panic and anxiety that causes my inner ear, sinus and throat problems and my digestive problems. This doc recommends Xanax and Carfate for this. But I’m scared again because I’m not sure about trying another benzo and getting to a high enough dose to do any good. But there are other AD’s. He puts Trofranil way up there as a good panic / anxiety medication. What do you think? Desperate, Melodee

Dear Melodee, I think you should certainly get off the serzone and try another medication. Medications don’t work the same for everyone, but Tofranil is an older and *well* tested medication that does work very well with PD for many people – myself included.  My life turned around when I combined Tofranil and Xanax together.  Until then I had tried numerous meds and lived a life of hell.  I slowly increased both dosages (with the help of my understanding physician) and now I have been at 150 mg Tofranil at bedtime with 4 mg Xanax per day for about 2 years straight.  This combo has worked well for others also. You may want to give it a try.  Hope you find relief soon and start feeling better.  You’re definitely not in this alone John L.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am in another crisis, After 2 1/2 months on Serzone  I am realizing its just not working that well. I still get nausea, have a strange feeling in my head with some remaining dizziness and lightheadedness and these constant tension headaches! I have been communicating online with the "Panic Disorder Institute" and getting new information on things like how the PD links with the somatic symptoms and it certainly looks like I have an acid reflux condition from the panic and anxiety that causes my inner ear, sinus and throat problems and my digestive problems. This doc recommends Xanax and Carfate for this. But I’m scared again because I’m not sure about trying another benzo and getting to a high enough dose to do any good. But there are other AD’s. He puts Trofranil way up there as a good panic / anxiety medication. What do you think? Desperate, Melodee

Although a certain amount of scepticism may be a good thing, I think you can safely regard Dr. S. at the PDI as a very trustworthy source of information. Often GERD and IBS are part of or at least comorbid with PD. I understand Shipko advised you to take Xanax and Carafate which seems to be a very good combo for this. As a matter of fact they are the meds he himself is on, being a sufferer too. Why are you scared about trying another benzo? It sounds like you had a bad experience with one? It’s an easy med to try. AD’s, on the other hand, have to weaned on slowly to avoid initial side effects and worsening of symptoms. As a matter of fact benzos are often used to help wean on an AD. Tofranil (imipramine) is a TCA (tricyclic antidepressant) which is an oldie but goodie. It’s stil often used for PD. It should be started at 10 mgs and then slowly raised up to therapeutic dose (which can be anywhere between 75-200 mgs and this can be verified by blood work). There is a third way and that’s combining Tofranil & Xanax (and Carafate can be added, this is more for IBS than for the actual Panic Attacks). Actually this is the combo I am on (Tofranil 150 mgs & Xanax 2.5 mgs). It works for me but YMMV. Philip

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I have to agree with the rest of the group.  Tofrinil (imiprimine) and Xanax are an effective combo… I used both with 10mg. of Paxil.  It’s my understading that the SSRI (Paxil)  increases the serum level of imiprimine so you don’t have to take as much.  Warning:  the side effects from imiprimine can be wretched at first….NO saliva, constipation, daytime somnelence, etc… However, as with John L… the combo changed my life too.  I was on it for 4 years then DC’d and remained PA-free for 2 years. I’m currently on Zoloft…not as effective as the imiprimine, but I couldn’t handle the side effects anymore.   -VJ (another newbie to the group)

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Excuse me… Please stop sending html to a newsgroup, please stop yelling and please stop pushing pot use in this group.  You may as well push coffee and other caffine drinks.

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I am on antdepressants and on Xanax, and still I am in a panic. my dad…who was half owner in my home, and only signed it over to me in July, is now after a stroke and all sorts of complications in need of nursing home care. I have been told, that the fact that he renounced claim in our home is immaterial and that before medecaid will pay for any help, they will take his half of the house…..and I the mortgage is already at my max of capacity. I am divorced and my two sons, 23 and 17 live with me….Mom and dad lived in the apartment downstairs….mom died two years ago.  neither has any money, dad makes 1300 a month between his pension and social seucurity. I don’t want to lose my home of these past 10 years, but don’t know what to do…I am in NY and NY is not much in the way of caring I am told….. HELP!!!!!!! Please…..I have been through 5 years of hell with the divorce, mom dying, my sons accident and now this…I can’t take any more please respond in email if you help I am in Orange County NY

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I am on antdepressants and on Xanax, and still I am in a panic. my dad…who was half owner in my home, and only signed it over to me in July, is now after a stroke and all sorts of complications in need of nursing home care. I have been told, that the fact that he renounced claim in our home is immaterial and that before medecaid will pay for any help, they will take his half of the house…..and I the mortgage is already at my max of capacity. I am divorced and my two sons, 23 and 17 live with me….Mom and dad lived in the apartment downstairs….mom died two years ago.  neither has any money, dad makes 1300 a month between his pension and social seucurity. I don’t want to lose my home of these past 10 years, but don’t know what to do…I am in NY and NY is not much in the way of caring I am told….. HELP!!!!!!! Please…..I have been through 5 years of hell with the divorce, mom dying, my sons accident and now this…I can’t take any more

Response:

Hi, Ok.Try to relax a second.It is a really rough time.One of thoses definig lifes moment. I would confer with a GOOD lawyer.This can be worked out,Gov Pataki did the exact same thing with his mother having her sign property over to him.Somebody in social sevices might also be able to help.You must put up a good fight or they’ll beat you for sure.They’re are caring folks out there.My wifes bes friend is a person who has some pull with social services.What part of NY are you in?We also live in NY.EMail me back your info.In times like these your medication is working hard to keep you stablized.Do not panic.You have to convince yourself that there is a way to work this out.Nobody wants to put anybody on the street.See a lawyer ASAP                              Peace    JMiles

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yes, i too have to focus on something else..TV doesn’t work because you still focus on what you are feeling, and reading a magazine is too hard when my head is jumbly….actually that is why i love the computer now…before i didn’t use it much , but whenever i have an attack i get online….but not to look up panic stuff, because you want to get it out of your time….catch up on your email or surf some new sites…something not too hard but it helps me….i tried to do the positive thinking thing, but you are still focused on yourself, you have to find some distraction…..try the computer, works wonders for me (along with popping a xanex of course!) jana

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Janet, I have also found that when I am very focused on myself my anxiety attacks get worse.  I usually do some breathing exercises if I think of it.  But when you are in the moment it’s hard to focus on anything productive, I’ll be the first to admit this.  Stay strong and I hope your doctor appointment goes well. Raquel I just found this newsgroup and I hope someone out there has experienced what I am now going through and can help me. I’ve been living with panic disorder (on and off symptoms) for almost 20 years.  My greatest breakthrough was 2 years ago when I finally found the Midwest Center and went through their 15 week program.  It helped tremendously.  However, I’m experiencing a set back and am having trouble coping. To make it short, I had learned to calm myself down with positive self-talk (i.e., it’s only my anxiety, I’m not going to die, I’m not going to go crazy, it will pass, etc.).  3 weeks ago, I experienced some very unusual, fluttery feelings in my chest, racing heartbeat, etc. and went to the emergency room.  By the time I got there, the feelings had stopped and they didn’t find anything wrong but suggested that I follow-up with a cardiologist.  I did and had an exercise stress test.  The test revealed that I’m having arrythmias.  My doctor wants me to wait 2 weeks before trying medication and if I’m lucky they’ll just stop.  Welll, 2 weeks are up and I’m still having them everyday.  My anxiety and panic disorder is now full blown.  I’m listening to my tapes, taking xanax, and trying not to freak out.  But, it’s hard to believe my positive self-talk when, in fact, there really could be something wrong with my heart.  Before, I would assure myself that there wasn’t anything physically wrong with me.  How can I do that now?  Has anyone experienced a similar circumstance?  What did you do to help yourself. My next doctors appointment isn’t until next week and I feel like that’s an enternity.  I also have a job interview today which I might have to cancel. Can you imagine me sitting there,  checking my pulse, holding my breath, spaced out and disoriented at a job interview?????  Some impression I’ll make, huh? Please, please anybody….any enouraging words or helpful ideas? Hi Janet, when i used to get bad general anxiety attacks at home i tried to keep as busy as i could. Even if i really did’nt feel like it i’d find some painting or gardening to do. Anything so long as i was’nt just sitting there focusing on myself all the time.                     There were times when i thought i was dying so i know how frightened you feel at the moment but if they found nothing wrong when you had the tests three weeks ago then try to trust that and focus on something outside of yourself. Easy for me to say i know but i felt the same as you this time two years ago.                     Sorry you feel so bad at the moment, best wishes.                                             Ken.

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It sounds like the doctor doesn’t think the arythmias are dangerous.  Maybe he just wants to control them because they interfere with your panic control? Anyhow, something I find useful in my self-talk is to ask  myself, "will thinking about this right now help?"  the answer is usually no.  someone posted here that all prroblems can be divided into two groups, those that can be solved by worrying about them, and those that can’t.  Right now the arrythmia is in the second category.  You have made plans for the next thing to do about them, which is to see the doctor next week.  Until then, when you can get more information about what is going on, there is nothing else to do.  so try to keep shoving those worries into the second category, and keep them from giving you more trouble. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just found this newsgroup and I hope someone out there has experienced what I am now going through and can help me. I’ve been living with panic disorder (on and off symptoms) for almost 20 years.  My greatest breakthrough was 2 years ago when I finally found the Midwest Center and went through their 15 week program.  It helped tremendously.  However, I’m experiencing a set back and am having trouble coping. To make it short, I had learned to calm myself down with positive self-talk (i.e., it’s only my anxiety, I’m not going to die, I’m not going to go crazy, it will pass, etc.).  3 weeks ago, I experienced some very unusual, fluttery feelings in my chest, racing heartbeat, etc. and went to the emergency room.  By the time I got there, the feelings had stopped and they didn’t find anything wrong but suggested that I follow-up with a cardiologist.  I did and had an exercise stress test.  The test revealed that I’m having arrythmias.  My doctor wants me to wait 2 weeks before trying medication and if I’m lucky they’ll just stop.  Welll, 2 weeks are up and I’m still having them everyday.  My anxiety and panic disorder is now full blown.  I’m listening to my tapes, taking xanax, and trying not to freak out.  But, it’s hard to believe my positive self-talk when, in fact, there really could be something wrong with my heart.  Before, I would assure myself that there wasn’t anything physically wrong with me.  How can I do that now?  Has anyone experienced a similar circumstance?  What did you do to help yourself. My next doctors appointment isn’t until next week and I feel like that’s an enternity.  I also have a job interview today which I might have to cancel. Can you imagine me sitting there,  checking my pulse, holding my breath, spaced out and disoriented at a job interview?????  Some impression I’ll make, huh? Please, please anybody….any enouraging words or helpful ideas?

Response:

Janet, I have also found that when I am very focused on myself my anxiety attacks get worse.  I usually do some breathing exercises if I think of it.  But when you are in the moment it’s hard to focus on anything productive, I’ll be the first to admit this.  Stay strong and I hope your doctor appointment goes well. Raquel

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just found this newsgroup and I hope someone out there has experienced what I am now going through and can help me. I’ve been living with panic disorder (on and off symptoms) for almost 20 years.  My greatest breakthrough was 2 years ago when I finally found the Midwest Center and went through their 15 week program.  It helped tremendously.  However, I’m experiencing a set back and am having trouble coping. To make it short, I had learned to calm myself down with positive self-talk (i.e., it’s only my anxiety, I’m not going to die, I’m not going to go crazy, it will pass, etc.).  3 weeks ago, I experienced some very unusual, fluttery feelings in my chest, racing heartbeat, etc. and went to the emergency room.  By the time I got there, the feelings had stopped and they didn’t find anything wrong but suggested that I follow-up with a cardiologist.  I did and had an exercise stress test.  The test revealed that I’m having arrythmias.  My doctor wants me to wait 2 weeks before trying medication and if I’m lucky they’ll just stop.  Welll, 2 weeks are up and I’m still having them everyday.  My anxiety and panic disorder is now full blown.  I’m listening to my tapes, taking xanax, and trying not to freak out.  But, it’s hard to believe my positive self-talk when, in fact, there really could be something wrong with my heart.  Before, I would assure myself that there wasn’t anything physically wrong with me.  How can I do that now?  Has anyone experienced a similar circumstance?  What did you do to help yourself. My next doctors appointment isn’t until next week and I feel like that’s an enternity.  I also have a job interview today which I might have to cancel. Can you imagine me sitting there,  checking my pulse, holding my breath, spaced out and disoriented at a job interview?????  Some impression I’ll make, huh? Please, please anybody….any enouraging words or helpful ideas? Hi Janet, when i used to get bad general anxiety attacks at home i tried to keep as busy as i could. Even if i really did’nt feel like it i’d find some painting or gardening to do. Anything so long as i was’nt just sitting there focusing on myself all the time.                     There were times when i thought i was dying so i know how frightened you feel at the moment but if they found nothing wrong when you had the tests three weeks ago then try to trust that and focus on something outside of yourself. Easy for me to say i know but i felt the same as you this time two years ago.                     Sorry you feel so bad at the moment, best wishes.                                             Ken.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just found this newsgroup and I hope someone out there has experienced what I am now going through and can help me. I’ve been living with panic disorder (on and off symptoms) for almost 20 years.  My greatest breakthrough was 2 years ago when I finally found the Midwest Center and went through their 15 week program.  It helped tremendously.  However, I’m experiencing a set back and am having trouble coping. To make it short, I had learned to calm myself down with positive self-talk (i.e., it’s only my anxiety, I’m not going to die, I’m not going to go crazy, it will pass, etc.).  3 weeks ago, I experienced some very unusual, fluttery feelings in my chest, racing heartbeat, etc. and went to the emergency room.  By the time I got there, the feelings had stopped and they didn’t find anything wrong but suggested that I follow-up with a cardiologist.  I did and had an exercise stress test.  The test revealed that I’m having arrythmias.  My doctor wants me to wait 2 weeks before trying medication and if I’m lucky they’ll just stop.  Welll, 2 weeks are up and I’m still having them everyday.  My anxiety and panic disorder is now full blown.  I’m listening to my tapes, taking xanax, and trying not to freak out.  But, it’s hard to believe my positive self-talk when, in fact, there really could be something wrong with my heart.  Before, I would assure myself that there wasn’t anything physically wrong with me.  How can I do that now?  Has anyone experienced a similar circumstance?  What did you do to help yourself. My next doctors appointment isn’t until next week and I feel like that’s an enternity.  I also have a job interview today which I might have to cancel. Can you imagine me sitting there,  checking my pulse, holding my breath, spaced out and disoriented at a job interview?????  Some impression I’ll make, huh? Please, please anybody….any enouraging words or helpful ideas?

Hi Janet, when i used to get bad general anxiety attacks at home i tried to keep as busy as i could. Even if i really did’nt feel like it i’d find some painting or gardening to do. Anything so long as i was’nt just sitting there focusing on myself all the time.                     There were times when i thought i was dying so i know how frightened you feel at the moment but if they found nothing wrong when you had the tests three weeks ago then try to trust that and focus on something outside of yourself. Easy for me to say i know but i felt the same as you this time two years ago.                     Sorry you feel so bad at the moment, best wishes.                                             Ken.

Response:

Janet: A few years back when we had an extremely tragic and stressful situation with one of our kids, I was having the same symptoms as you. My doctor put me on a portable EKG thing for 24 hours and it showed irregular heartbeats. It felt to me as if a large bird was fluttering madly in my chest, trying to break free! — or a fish flopping for its life.  This sensation took my breath away and was pretty frightening, especially all night as I tried to sleep. Unlike your doc, however, my family doctor diagnosed stress and anxiety, and immediately put me on Xanax to calm me down. It worked like a charm. The second day after beginning the med, I simply stopped having the palpitations. (I’d had them for about 3-4 months, getting worse all the time.) Do talk to your doctor about the possibility of some anti-anxiety medication to break this anxiety cycle. Good luck, and let us know what happens. Best, Anne —

Response:

Whoops! janet, I just re-read your posting and see that you *do* take Xanax. Perhaps you need an increased dosage; talk to your doctor, and if he’s not helpful, seek out a psychiatrist. Sorry I was asleep when I replied! – Anne —

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just found this newsgroup and I hope someone out there has experienced what I am now going through and can help me. I’ve been living with panic disorder (on and off symptoms) for almost 20 years.  My greatest breakthrough was 2 years ago when I finally found the Midwest Center and went through their 15 week program.  It helped tremendously.  However, I’m experiencing a set back and am having trouble coping. To make it short, I had learned to calm myself down with positive self-talk (i.e., it’s only my anxiety, I’m not going to die, I’m not going to go crazy, it will pass, etc.).  3 weeks ago, I experienced some very unusual, fluttery feelings in my chest, racing heartbeat, etc. and went to the emergency room.  By the time I got there, the feelings had stopped and they didn’t find anything wrong but suggested that I follow-up with a cardiologist.  I did and had an exercise stress test.  The test revealed that I’m having arrythmias.  My doctor wants me to wait 2 weeks before trying medication and if I’m lucky they’ll just stop.  Welll, 2 weeks are up and I’m still having them everyday.  My anxiety and panic disorder is now full blown.  I’m listening to my tapes, taking xanax, and trying not to freak out.  But, it’s hard to believe my positive self-talk when, in fact, there really could be something wrong with my heart.  Before, I would assure myself that there wasn’t anything physically wrong with me.  How can I do that now?  Has anyone experienced a similar circumstance?  What did you do to help yourself. My next doctors appointment isn’t until next week and I feel like that’s an enternity.  I also have a job interview today which I might have to cancel. Can you imagine me sitting there,  checking my pulse, holding my breath, spaced out and disoriented at a job interview?????  Some impression I’ll make, huh? Please, please anybody….any enouraging words or helpful ideas?

I’ve been through the positive thinking route and found it’s effectiveness to be very limited. (when one is feeling well it really works!) I’d see a psychiatrist and get on the proper meds to control your anxiety. You sound like you need a higher dose of Xanax and/or another med. If the cardiologist told you to come back in one week, he couldn’t have been too concerned about a serious arrythmia. If he was, you would now be in the hospital being treated for it. Hope this helps, Chip Before you buy.

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arrythmias.

big word little consequence unless you have underlying pathology like elctrical conduction problems or clogged arteries-from a medical standpoint what you are experiencing is tantemount to a hiccup or burp- they are uncomfortable only if you define them as awful or life threatening-the stimulating hormones your body is secreting at such high levels all the time are expressed evrywhere like in faster peristalsis of your gut or flutters of your heart these are benign symptoms of anxiety even if your anxiety attacks are controlled you understand you have a proclivity to experience stress and worry so you still are and are expressing it physiologicaly instead of emotively-meds can ease the cardiac contractions or mellow out the conduction time if needed so don’t freak out you aren’t going to die or go crazy. The very worse that will happen if these burps are bad enough is you will pass out and this is the very worse is rare if you are youngish and is still controlable with meds. re read and listen to her stopping scary thoughts tapes and don’t do the what ifs or imagine yourself having a cardiac arrest-once under the care of a cardiac doc you will be fine. LM

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I just found this newsgroup and I hope someone out there has experienced what I am now going through and can help me. I’ve been living with panic disorder (on and off symptoms) for almost 20 years.  My greatest breakthrough was 2 years ago when I finally found the Midwest Center and went through their 15 week program.  It helped tremendously.  However, I’m experiencing a set back and am having trouble coping. To make it short, I had learned to calm myself down with positive self-talk (i.e., it’s only my anxiety, I’m not going to die, I’m not going to go crazy, it will pass, etc.).  3 weeks ago, I experienced some very unusual, fluttery feelings in my chest, racing heartbeat, etc. and went to the emergency room.  By the time I got there, the feelings had stopped and they didn’t find anything wrong but suggested that I follow-up with a cardiologist.  I did and had an exercise stress test.  The test revealed that I’m having arrythmias.  My doctor wants me to wait 2 weeks before trying medication and if I’m lucky they’ll just stop.  Welll, 2 weeks are up and I’m still having them everyday.  My anxiety and panic disorder is now full blown.  I’m listening to my tapes, taking xanax, and trying not to freak out.  But, it’s hard to believe my positive self-talk when, in fact, there really could be something wrong with my heart.  Before, I would assure myself that there wasn’t anything physically wrong with me.  How can I do that now?  Has anyone experienced a similar circumstance?  What did you do to help yourself. My next doctors appointment isn’t until next week and I feel like that’s an enternity.  I also have a job interview today which I might have to cancel. Can you imagine me sitting there,  checking my pulse, holding my breath, spaced out and disoriented at a job interview?????  Some impression I’ll make, huh? Please, please anybody….any enouraging words or helpful ideas?

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Margrove, Thanks for your reply to my post. You may recall that I talked about Seroquel and Zyprexa and you mentioned that Seroquel was more dose dependent. Could you explain what is meant by that. I was on 5mg Zyprexa and now 100mg Seroquel. Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I’m desperate! In order for my career to go ahead I need to take a whole program of study in the next year and that amounts to a very heavy load each quarter. I haven’t been well, so I don’t know how I can do this. I just turned 50 last year and about three years ago came down with panic/anxiety disorder. I take medications, but none of them work that well. I did OK for awhile on Zyprexa. But now I’m on Seoquel because of the weight problem with Zyprexa. But I’m not sure if the Seroquel is going to work as good. My pdoc also just put me on Depakote about two months ago. It never felt quite right so I’m coming off of it. I don’t feel so good. Could there be some withdrawl symptoms from the Depakote? I was on 1000mg and then went down to 750 for about a week and now I’ve just reduced it to 500mg yesterday. Please help! Dee

Hi Dee! Wish I could help you with the meds, but I don’t know anything about them. Just wanted to give you a hug.  You sound like you need one.  {{{{{{{Dee}}}}}}} Di

Response:

Hi, I’m desperate! In order for my career to go ahead I need to take a whole program of study in the next year and that amounts to a very heavy load each quarter. I haven’t been well, so I don’t know how I can do this. I just turned 50 last year and about three years ago came down with panic/anxiety disorder. I take medications, but none of them work that well. I did OK for awhile on Zyprexa. But now I’m on Seoquel because of the weight problem with Zyprexa. But I’m not sure if the Seroquel is going to work as good. My pdoc also just put me on Depakote about two months ago. It never felt quite right so I’m coming off of it. I don’t feel so good. Could there be some withdrawl symptoms from the Depakote? I was on 1000mg and then went down to 750 for about a week and now I’ve just reduced it to 500mg yesterday. Please help! Dee Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I’m desperate! In order for my career to go ahead I need to take a whole program of study in the next year and that amounts to a very heavy load each quarter. I haven’t been well, so I don’t know how I can do this. I just turned 50 last year and about three years ago came down with panic/anxiety disorder. I take medications, but none of them work that well. I did OK for awhile on Zyprexa. But now I’m on Seoquel because of the weight problem with Zyprexa. But I’m not sure if the Seroquel is going to work as good. My pdoc also just put me on Depakote about two months ago. It never felt quite right so I’m coming off of it. I don’t feel so good. Could there be some withdrawl symptoms from the Depakote? I was on 1000mg and then went down to 750 for about a week and now I’ve just reduced it to 500mg yesterday. Please help! Dee Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

there is a slight rebound activity that occurs with tapers off depakote-like all psychoactive meds it requires a slow taper-your brain will readjust withina short time to its lack of presence-seroquel works differently then zyprexa and is much more dose dependant both being very respectable meds you may find your responses different as with all medicaments and individual chemistries-as for your course load-push the envelope and as the great zen of nike said-just do it. the worse that will happen is you may succeed. If not so what. LM

Response:

Thanks for all your support. Raquel – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I’m not doing to good right about now.  Between having to move because of problems with my apartment, anxiety, depression, asthma, fibromyalgia and Hellish problems with MSN, who is charging me Double and doesn’t support any news servers for me, I am about to go insane. Not much left to live for. Raquel Before you buy.

Response:

I’m not doing to good right about now.  Between having to move because of problems with my apartment, anxiety, depression, asthma, fibromyalgia and Hellish problems with MSN, who is charging me Double and doesn’t support any news servers for me, I am about to go insane. Not much left to live for. Raquel

Dear Raquel, As much as you don`t feel like it right now, there is much left to live for. You have a wonderful husband, and you also have Somer, I know how precious he is to you. I know moving is a stress right now, but think of how it may help improve your health in the long run? Has your depression worsened lately? I can`t recall the meds you are on for your asthma, if you are on prednisone, it could be exacerbating your depression. You might want to call your doctor about that. Please hang in there, it will get better. Love Jackie ~*~The great art of life is sensation, to feel that we exist, even in

Response:

Dear Raquel, I’m so sorry you are feeling down right now.  You have a lot going on at once and it does feel overwhelming.  Try to tackle one thing at a time.  And then find ways to be kind to yourself and to tell yourself that you are going to get through it.  Find ways to have little successes, then you can build on them.  I hope you feel better soon.  Don’t give up. I’m not doing to good right about now.  Between having to move because of problems with my apartment, anxiety, depression, asthma, fibromyalgia and Hellish problems with MSN, who is charging me Double and doesn’t support any news servers for me, I am about to go insane. Not much left to live for. Raquel Before you buy.

– Jeannie "On the other hand….you have different fingers." Before you buy.

Response:

I’m not doing to good right about now.  Between having to move because of problems with my apartment, anxiety, depression, asthma, fibromyalgia and Hellish problems with MSN, who is charging me Double and doesn’t support any news servers for me, I am about to go insane. Not much left to live for. Raquel

Maybe it would be a good idea to break down this accumulation of problems into more manageable parts. – How is your asthma coming along? Do the new meds work?  -Maybe you would like to tell us some more about your anxiety problems etc. and how they are treated… I think you should look for a good CBT-therapist.  -And what’s with the appartment? How is Brian? He is always so supportive….are you two OK? Philip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Before you buy.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m not doing to good right about now.  Between having to move because of problems with my apartment, anxiety, depression, asthma, fibromyalgia and Hellish problems with MSN, who is charging me Double and doesn’t support any news servers for me, I am about to go insane. Not much left to live for. Raquel Before you buy.

Look for Something just anything that grounds you in the present. (((((((Raquel)))))) Sue

Response:

Hi Raquel Just hang in there and go with its flow and try to keep your chin high  up. Be extra good for yourself  . This bumpy road will stop and things will pick up, its all a matter of time! Keep posting and let us be with you in your hart! Love Jeannette

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m not doing to good right about now.  Between having to move because of problems with my apartment, anxiety, depression, asthma, fibromyalgia and Hellish problems with MSN, who is charging me Double and doesn’t support any news servers for me, I am about to go insane. Not much left to live for. Raquel Before you buy.

Response:

I’m not doing to good right about now.  Between having to move because of problems with my apartment, anxiety, depression, asthma, fibromyalgia and Hellish problems with MSN, who is charging me Double and doesn’t support any news servers for me, I am about to go insane. Not much left to live for. Raquel Before you buy.

Response:

Sweetie…. You have plenty to live for… Maybe this move will be one that energizes you.  The other issues are hard to rid yourself of, but you know what?  There is NO REASON you can’t enjoy life anyhow.  MSN is a joke…I tell you what…we signed up for a free month, when we called to cancel (all 6 times) they gave us another free month.  Tell them you have a beef and they usually suck up.  Find another internet company.  We are using prodigy and it was simple as could be.  Also I know Juno offers free web service or their ‘premium’ service for only like 10 bucks a month.  Not to worry about the news servers….go to deja (as much as I HATE deja) or newsone.com…that is where I posted when my email server wouldn’t work right.  Just breathe sweetie…it will all get better. As for your asthma, what meds are you on?  I had a lot of trouble with mine until I tried Singulair and it has made a world of difference. They put me on Azmacort (a steroid inhaler) and I never even use it now.  I did right after my accident, but then when I stopped I noticed the singulair was going so good I didn’t really need to go back. During the move, take care of yourself.  Take long baths after packing, light some candles that smell like your favorite flower and don’t forget to pamper yourself.  It does wonders I promise I’m not doing to good right about now.  Between having to move because of problems with my apartment, anxiety, depression, asthma, fibromyalgia and Hellish problems with MSN, who is charging me Double and doesn’t support any news servers for me, I am about to go insane. Not much left to live for. Raquel Before you buy.

Robin

Response:

I’m not doing to good right about now.  Between having to move because of problems with my apartment, anxiety, depression, asthma, fibromyalgia and Hellish problems with MSN, who is charging me Double and doesn’t support any news servers for me, I am about to go insane. Not much left to live for. Raquel you have alot to live for.  Are you ok?  You have god and your husband.

 Be positive. donny Confess your sins.  Turn from your sins.  Believe in your heart.  Ask Jesus to save you.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m not doing to good right about now.  Between having to move because of problems with my apartment, anxiety, depression, asthma, fibromyalgia and Hellish problems with MSN, who is charging me Double and doesn’t support any news servers for me, I am about to go insane. Not much left to live for. Raquel you have alot to live for.  Are you ok?  You have god and your husband. Be positive. donny Confess your sins.  Turn from your sins.  Believe in your heart.  Ask Jesus to save you. hI RAQUEL, you can download juno at juno.com and acess the newsgroups with

deja.com.  You have alot to live for.  Think of the people that would be affected if you werent around.  will PRAY FOR YOU. donny Confess your sins.  Turn from your sins.  Believe in your heart.  Ask Jesus to save you.

Response:

Raquel, Life is worth living…  You are just experiencing a lot of problems at one time.  Try to deal witheach one individually ad it does take some of the stress off your shoulders. smiles, elise

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m not doing to good right about now.  Between having to move because of problems with my apartment, anxiety, depression, asthma, fibromyalgia and Hellish problems with MSN, who is charging me Double and doesn’t support any news servers for me, I am about to go insane. Not much left to live for. Raquel Before you buy.

Response:

Question:

I had major side effects with Zoloft. I’m now using Welbutrin and things are better for me.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you read Jonathans post dated 5/25/02 ("Hear me out.") you will have a good idea of what I’ve experienced. Right now my doctor is putting me on Wellbutrin and slowly off of Zoloft. But it is in all probability too late to reverse any adverse side effects. What choice do I have, I would rather be how I am than miserable with depression. I know that I wouldn’t have been able to hold a job and get to where I am without the medication. I am close to 50 years old, and in my present job occupation for 15 years which is the same time I’ve been on Zoloft. Before that I was never able to hold a job for longer than 18 months. Very hard to deal with and raise a family that way. With my present troubles (feeling like the medication isn’t working as effectively as before and new stresses at work) I feel very vulnerable. So far I’ve seen some improvement with the combo of Zoloft and Wellbutrin. I’ve been on 100mg of Zoloft for 15 years. Just be glad that is the only problem you are having. If you don’t mind me asking, what long-term and short-term side-effects ahve you experienced? — Regards, .

Response:

I’ve been on 100mg of Zoloft for 15 years. Just be glad that is the only problem you are having.

If you don’t mind me asking, what long-term and short-term side-effects ahve you experienced? — Regards, .

Response:

If you read Jonathans post dated 5/25/02 ("Hear me out.") you will have a good idea of what I’ve experienced. Right now my doctor is putting me on Wellbutrin and slowly off of Zoloft. But it is in all probability too late to reverse any adverse side effects. What choice do I have, I would rather be how I am than miserable with depression. I know that I wouldn’t have been able to hold a job and get to where I am without the medication. I am close to 50 years old, and in my present job occupation for 15 years which is the same time I’ve been on Zoloft. Before that I was never able to hold a job for longer than 18 months. Very hard to deal with and raise a family that way. With my present troubles (feeling like the medication isn’t working as effectively as before and new stresses at work) I feel very vulnerable. So far I’ve seen some improvement with the combo of Zoloft and Wellbutrin.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve been on 100mg of Zoloft for 15 years. Just be glad that is the only problem you are having. If you don’t mind me asking, what long-term and short-term side-effects ahve you experienced? — Regards, .

Response:

I’m taking 200mg per day for 1 yr now.  I’ve noticed that my hands are

shaky and sometimes my arms twitch while in bed.  Is this a normal side-effect of Zoloft?  Anyone else having symptoms like this? I’ve been on 100mg of Zoloft for 15 years. Just be glad that is the only problem you are having.

Response:

For a more serious respone – yes.  My friend is on Zoloft and started having shakiness.  Since she’s on many different drugs we did an extensive search on the web and narrowed down the cause to the Zoloft.  So I yes – it can cause the symptoms you’re having. -Jessica

I’m taking 200mg per day for 1 yr now.  I’ve noticed that my hands are

shaky and sometimes my arms twitch while in bed.  Is this a normal side-effect of Zoloft?  Anyone else having symptoms like this? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Don’t take Zoloft if you have a dog!!!!!

hehe The Dangers of Bread A recent Cincinnati Enquirer headline read, "Smell of baked bread may be health hazard." The article went on to describe the dangers of the smell of baking bread. The main danger, apparently, is that the organic components of this aroma may break down ozone (I’m not making this stuff up). I was horrified. When are we going to do something about bread- induced global warming? Sure, we attack tobacco companies, but when is the government going to go after Big Bread? Well, I’ve done a little research, and what I’ve discovered should make anyone think twice…. More than 98 percent of convicted felons are bread eaters. Fully HALF of all children who grow up in bread-consuming households score below average on standardized tests. In the 18th century, when virtually all bread was baked in the home, the average life expectancy was less than 50 years; infant mortality rates were unacceptably high; many women died in childbirth; and diseases such as typhoid, yellow fever and influenza ravaged whole nations. More than 90 percent of violent crimes are committed within 24 hours of eating bread. Bread is made from a substance called "dough." It has been proven that as little as one pound of dough can be used to suffocate a mouse. The average American eats more bread than that in one month! Primitive tribal societies that have no bread exhibit a low occurrence of cancer, Alzheimer’s, Parkinson’s disease and osteoporosis. Bread has been proven to be addictive. Subjects deprived of bread and given only water to eat begged for bread after only two days. Bread is often a "gateway" food item, leading the user to "harder" items such as butter, jelly, peanut butter and even cold cuts. Bread has been proven to absorb water. Since the human body is more than 90 percent water, it follows that eating bread could lead to your body being taken over by this absorptive food product, turning you into a soggy, gooey bread-pudding person. Newborn babies can choke on bread. Bread is baked at temperatures as high as 400 degrees Fahrenheit! That kind of heat can kill an adult in less than one minute. Most American bread eaters are utterly unable to distinguish between significant scientific fact and meaningless statistical babbling. In light of these frightening statistics, we propose the following bread restrictions: No sale of bread to minors. No advertising of bread within 1000 feet of a school. A 300 percent federal tax on all bread to pay for all the societal ills we might associate with bread. No animal or human images, nor any primary colors (which may appeal to children) may be used to promote bread usage. A $4.2 zillion fine on the three biggest bread manufacturers. Please send this e-mail on to everyone you know who cares about this crucial issue. — Regards, .

Response:

I’m taking 200mg per day for 1 yr now.  I’ve noticed that my hands are shaky and sometimes my arms twitch while in bed.  Is this a normal side-effect of Zoloft?  Anyone else having symptoms like this?

Response:

I’m taking 200mg per day for 1 yr now.   I’ve noticed that my hands are shaky and sometimes my arms twitch while in bed.   Is this a normal side-effect of Zoloft?   Anyone else having symptoms like this?

normal. — Regards, .

Response:

I’m taking 200mg per day for 1 yr now.  I’ve noticed that my hands are shaky and sometimes my arms twitch while in bed.  Is this a normal side-effect of Zoloft? Anyone else having symptoms like this?

You’re lucky those are the only symptoms you have.  Zoloft has been known to make people go on shooting sprees (Phil Hartman’s wife).

Response:

You’re lucky those are the only symptoms you have.  Zoloft has been known to make people go on shooting sprees (Phil Hartman’s wife).

What a load of shit. — Regards, .

Response:

Question:

Hi to everyone! Good news about me, I think I am on my way out of depression Two days ago, I felt very bad, and anxious because of the effexor withdrawal. Desperately, I took 30mg mianserin for the sedative effect to sleep. (Last summer, my ex-doctor prescribed me 10mg mianserin to be taken one hour before bedtime. It was for the sedative effect to help sleep, not for antidepressant purpose. Mianserin can be sedative at low doses, but its antidepressant effect begins at 30mg daily!) The next day, (yesterday) I felt a bit drowsy, but I felt energetic in a way, and the anxiety was gone. So, I asked my doctor if it would be OK to try mianserin at 30mg/day, and he said: "Go ahead!" Today, I’m nothing but depressed! My sleep improved dramatically. I did not have those vivid dreams caused by effexor. My sleep was not disturbed. I don’t feel any anxiety, and I could go through the day with 8 hours of sleep without taking a nap. This is the first time since a very very very long time. I just can’t believe it! I never thought of taking mianserin as an antidepressant agent, because it is very sedative. I never could imagine that a sedative antidepressant could be such a wonder drug for me. I hope this does not fade! If I go on like this, I can find the energy and the courage to finish my school, and go ahead with my life. I am very hopeful this time, wish me luck best wishes for everyone out there, cem

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi to everyone! Good news about me, I think I am on my way out of depression Two days ago, I felt very bad, and anxious because of the effexor withdrawal. Desperately, I took 30mg mianserin for the sedative effect to sleep. (Last summer, my ex-doctor prescribed me 10mg mianserin to be taken one hour before bedtime. It was for the sedative effect to help sleep, not for antidepressant purpose. Mianserin can be sedative at low doses, but its antidepressant effect begins at 30mg daily!) The next day, (yesterday) I felt a bit drowsy, but I felt energetic in a way, and the anxiety was gone. So, I asked my doctor if it would be OK to try mianserin at 30mg/day, and he said: "Go ahead!" Today, I’m nothing but depressed! My sleep improved dramatically. I did not have those vivid dreams caused by effexor. My sleep was not disturbed. I don’t feel any anxiety, and I could go through the day with 8 hours of sleep without taking a nap. This is the first time since a very very very long time. I just can’t believe it! I never thought of taking mianserin as an antidepressant agent, because it is very sedative. I never could imagine that a sedative antidepressant could be such a wonder drug for me. I hope this does not fade! If I go on like this, I can find the energy and the courage to finish my school, and go ahead with my life. I am very hopeful this time, wish me luck best wishes for everyone out there, cem

Very wonderful news!!  Good for you, Cem.  Thanks for the wonderful post! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Question:

Hello all, I am an OCD sufferer for two+ decades and have had mixed benefits with non SSRI meds and behavioral therapy.  My question to all of you is what SSRI meds have you tried as I am considering them. What has worked for the OCD and depression and what side effects have you experienced? I understand that SSRIs work differently for each person but I am trying for a general consensus. Please include any commentary on Luvox(Fluvoxamine), Prozac (Fluvoxatine), Paxil(paroxetine), Celexa(citalopram), Zoloft(sertraline) and/or any I have missed Thank you very much for your response!  If you wish to respond personally please e-mail loafofspam@(remove-this)aol.com Brett

Response:

Zoloft – ok I’ll do this in a sorta survey form style to make it easier for you. dosage – optimum dosage when ocd was at worst – 75mg, now it has subsided – 25mg is enough. effects – great, really relieved anxiety and I managed to beat my rituals and a lot of my thoughts permanently whilst on it. side effects – grinding teeth, sleepiness, bad dreams, sweating, weight loss and loss of appetite – but they all faded within a few months. additional problems – coming off it was hard – tremors and stuff but I got there eventually…took a quite a few weeks. Overall I think it’s been a great med for me! ~Am~ xxx Gentility <loafofs…@aol.com

wrote in message

news:u07jjodequ7cd7@corp.supernews.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Hello all, I am an OCD sufferer for two+ decades and have had mixed benefits with non SSRI meds and behavioral therapy.  My question to all of you is what SSRI meds have you tried as I am considering them. What has worked for the OCD and depression and what side effects have you experienced? I understand that SSRIs work differently for each person but I am trying

for

a general consensus. Please include any commentary on Luvox(Fluvoxamine), Prozac (Fluvoxatine), Paxil(paroxetine), Celexa(citalopram), Zoloft(sertraline) and/or any I

have

missed Thank you very much for your response!  If you wish to respond personally please e-mail loafofspam@(remove-this)aol.com Brett

Response:

On Tue, 27 Nov 2001 12:34:15 -0500, "Gentility" <loafofs…@aol.com

wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Hello all, I am an OCD sufferer for two+ decades and have had mixed benefits with non SSRI meds and behavioral therapy.  My question to all of you is what SSRI meds have you tried as I am considering them. What has worked for the OCD and depression and what side effects have you experienced? I understand that SSRIs work differently for each person but I am trying for a general consensus. Please include any commentary on Luvox(Fluvoxamine), Prozac (Fluvoxatine), Paxil(paroxetine), Celexa(citalopram), Zoloft(sertraline) and/or any I have missed Thank you very much for your response!  If you wish to respond personally please e-mail loafofspam@(remove-this)aol.com Brett

I’ve been dealing with my OCD for 32 years with mixed results. It’s waxed and waned over the years. A year and a half ago my Dr. put me on Paxil and it has worked wonderfully, both on the OCD and on my anxiety and depression. I seem to be doing well on 20 mg, so no change in dosage is anticipated. The effects of Paxil on the OCD may be somewhat less than on the anxiety and depression, but it makes handling the OCD far easier without them. I had the usual side effects for a couple of weeks – fatigue, shakiness, feeling really spacy – which disappeared after a few weeks. Now I just have a bit of fatigue, but an acceptable level. When I went off it once I weaned off it with only some minor discomfort. I’m back on it now, and glad to be. Idj (back to lurking)

Response:

Hello… Paxil has worked wonders for me, although it has made me gain some weight steadily over a couple of years. But the only side effect I really notice is sexual disfunction (lack of interest, etc.). Luvox was horrible for me, I slept 18+ hours a day, felt horrible, etc. But everything is different for everyone. I’d also recommend anti-psychotics, such as Risperdal or Zyprexa. Both worked great for my obsessive thoughts. Shana shaynuh…@aol.com Visit the web site created for alt.support.ocd! http://members.aol.com/shaynuh512/page1.html I’m so sick of this roller coaster ride…I want my ticket back!!!

Response:

Question:

I used to have the same side effects. It lasted long, at least a month. I wasn’t working at that time. About an hour after taking 10mg I got pale and sweaty on the face, extremely sleepy and had a terrible headache. Cofee helped me a lot, that I normally don’t drink cause it boosts my anxiety when in stressful situations. I felt better taking Paxil early in the morning or in the night; the worst in the afternoon (It’ still like that). Nowadays (after a year) I get a bit drowsy with a headache after taking Paxil, but not more often than once a week, especially when I take it irregulary. boasss

Response:

Well, I guess that I am certainly living proof that side affects don’t "affect" everyone.   I’ve been on Paxil for over a year now, and have nothing but positive things about it.   It does work, and it does help.  If the side effects are too much, that’s one thing, but just because a few people get them doesn’t mean you will! "sssboa" <sss…@goto.hell.pl

wrote in message

news:9hdu8m$slm$1@news.tpi.pl… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

I used to have the same side effects. It lasted long, at least a month. I wasn’t working at that time. About an hour after taking 10mg I got pale

and

sweaty on the face, extremely sleepy and had a terrible headache. Cofee helped me a lot, that I normally don’t drink cause it boosts my anxiety

when

in stressful situations. I felt better taking Paxil early in the morning

or

in the night; the worst in the afternoon (It’ still like that). Nowadays (after a year) I get a bit drowsy with a headache after taking Paxil, but not more often than once a week, especially when I take it irregulary. boasss

Response:

I don’t consider my side-effects serious after all. boasss

Response:

           Man,  I just started paxil yesterday and all I have been doing is sleeping.  Good thing I had yesterday and today off from work.  I am sleeping more now than I did from depression.  And when I am sleeping I am OUT.  Laid down for a nap tonight at 7:30pm cause I couldn’t keep my eyes open and the next thing I knew it was 11pm. Damn.  Anyone else have this side effect?  I hope it goes away.  I also have a slight headache right at my forehead but I don’t know if that is from too much sleep or the meds.

Response:

meow wrote:

           Man,  I just started paxil yesterday and all I have been doing is sleeping.  Good thing I had yesterday and today off from work.  I am sleeping more now than I did from depression.  And when I am sleeping I am OUT.  Laid down for a nap tonight at 7:30pm cause I couldn’t keep my eyes open and the next thing I knew it was 11pm. Damn.  Anyone else have this side effect?  I hope it goes away.  I also have a slight headache right at my forehead but I don’t know if that is from too much sleep or the meds.

The head ache can be a side effect of paxil as well as the sleeping. At what time of the day are you taking the drug? Try to take all your dose before you go to bed. If it doesn’t matter when you take it, i.e. you are sleepy all day then I would try another drug. I used to get sleepy from taking paxil and a headache sometimes. Richard

Response:

In article <ncqijtsfejqfv4jp0f616an32tnjpfg…@4ax.com

, meow <nospammeo…@rochester.com writes:            Man,  I just started paxil yesterday and all I have been doing is sleeping.  Good thing I had yesterday and today off from work.  I am sleeping more now than I did from depression.  And when I am sleeping I am OUT.  Laid down for a nap tonight at 7:30pm cause I couldn’t keep my eyes open and the next thing I knew it was 11pm. Damn.  Anyone else have this side effect?  I hope it goes away.  I also have a slight headache right at my forehead but I don’t know if that is from too much sleep or the meds.

Paxil had me so out of it that if I wasn’t sleeping, I had to be flat on my back to avoid getting queezy.  Take a good look at the side effects list for paxil.  I found that I suffered practically all of them.  Worse still was coming off of it.  I had become so dependant that standing up became a challenge – I’d suddenly have my equilibrium jolt off one way or another and practically fall over.  This happened for MONTHS after getting off of it. If you can at all avoid it, stay away from the stuff and go with something less volatile.  I’m on effexir now, and while missing a day leaves me cranky as all get-out, it is night-and-day better than paxil ever was.         rOn

Response:

Paxil had me so out of it that if I wasn’t sleeping, I had to be flat on my back to avoid getting queezy.  Take a good look at the side effects list for paxil.  I found that I suffered practically all of them.  Worse still was coming off of it.  I had become so dependant that standing up became a challenge – I’d suddenly have my equilibrium jolt off one way or another and practically fall over.  This happened for MONTHS after getting off of it.

rOn:

If you can at all avoid it, stay away from the stuff and go with something less volatile.  I’m on effexir now, and while missing a day leaves me cranky as all get-out, it is night-and-day better than paxil ever was.

I went from Paxil to Effexor, too. I agree, it’s ten times better. Thing is, though (according to my doc), you should never miss an Effexor dose AT ALL.Yah, it will make you cranky. For my kids’ sake, I make sure I refill early. JLeon

Response:

Question:

Hello,     Went to the doctor’s and he has increased my dosage of Paxil from 20 mg to 40 mg. I did not realize there was going to be a yoyo effect from not taking amitriptilene. I am looking forward to a normal night’s sleep (for me 6 or 7 hours) whenever that will occur, I cannot say, but I am trying to optimistic. Many thanks to all for the moral support.

Dear Mike, Please don`t increase your Paxil dose by 20 mgs, that is a huge increase at one time and there is a chance you will experience really uncomfortable side-effects. People with anxiety disorders need to start at a low dose and wean slowly. It is best to increase your dose in 5mg increments. It took me 6 weeks to go from 5 mgs to 20 mgs on Paxil, I can`t imagine a 20mg increase at one time Take care!! Jackie

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello,     Went to the doctor’s and he has increased my dosage of Paxil from 20 mg to 40 mg. I did not realize there was going to be a yoyo effect from not taking amitriptilene. I am looking forward to a normal night’s sleep (for me 6 or 7 hours) whenever that will occur, I cannot say, but I am trying to optimistic. Many thanks to all for the moral support. Dear Mike, Please don`t increase your Paxil dose by 20 mgs, that is a huge increase at one time and there is a chance you will experience really uncomfortable side-effects. People with anxiety disorders need to start at a low dose and wean slowly. It is best to increase your dose in 5mg increments. It took me 6 weeks to go from 5 mgs to 20 mgs on Paxil, I can`t imagine a 20mg increase at one time Take care!! Jackie

Jackie, as usual, is quite right here! Philip

Response:

Mike, I agree with the other replies, don’t initially take the full 20 mgs.  If nothing else, at least cut it in half.  I hope you are able to get some sleep… smiles, elise

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello,     Went to the doctor’s and he has increased my dosage of Paxil from 20 mg to 40 mg. I did not realize there was going to be a yoyo effect from not taking amitriptilene. I am looking forward to a normal night’s sleep (for me 6 or 7 hours) whenever that will occur, I cannot say, but I am trying to optimistic. Many thanks to all for the moral support. Cheers, Mike Mike, Hope your appt goes well and do let us know how it goes… smiles, elise     Many thanks for the info. I am going to the doctor today. For reasons which I cannot relate here I am not able to take benzos. I feel so tightly wound up, that I cannot relax at all. I have become so jumpy, too. I do not dare drink any coffee, for obvious reasons. When the doctor said that it was all right to just stop taking amitriptilene, I had no idea that I would feel this badly. I have always been tightly wound up, even as a child. It was nice while I did not feel so wound up, until recently. All of this anxiety is making it impossible for me to exercise, (I usually ride a bicycle to and from work) I live in Brooklyn, and I normally ride into Manhattan every day. But, the last 5 months of all this anxiety has made it impossible. I used to ride 30 miles a day. I try to take a walk every evening, just a few miles, to help burn off my nervous energy. I will let you know how I make out at the doctors, and my thanks to those who answered my query, and to those who have had good thoughts for me. Cheers, Mike one supposed to feel like shit, a week and half after not taking Amitriptilene? yes if you abruptly stopped-it takes a week to leave your system -taking both paxil and amitriptyline together is bad medicine imo-they compete quite viruntly for specific receptor sites there are other tca ssri combos that are safer-so you now are feeling the full brunt of the paxil and the abrupt ceasation of the ami-get another doc-btw paxil is less effective in treating ibs then the sedating tca’s even though it may be the most sedating ssri and certainly the most anticholinergic it still doesn’t equate to ami your ami dose was low and buttricing it with a benzo may have provided better relief even now a benzo would do wonders LM

Response:

Hi All,     I have been taking Paxil for about a month and a half, and have a good started taking Paxil, I was taking 75mg of Amitriptilene for a number of months before I started taking Paxil. I was taking Amitriptilene for IBS, but my symptoms had gotten so bad, that the doctor put me on Paxil, and a few weeks later told me it was all right to stop taking the Amitriptilene. There was no tapering down, or anything. Last week, I started waking at night for no reason, and then the symptoms got so bad. I now have a feeling of "impending doom" and I am so fatigued, irritable, etc. Is this normal? Is one supposed to feel like shit, a week and half after not taking Amitriptilene? I would expect some minor discomfort, for a few days, and that is a maybe, but these feelings are horrible. Any ideas? Should I wait a few more days, before caling the doctor? Many thanks in advance. Cheers, Mike

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All,     I have been taking Paxil for about a month and a half, and have a good started taking Paxil, I was taking 75mg of Amitriptilene for a number of months before I started taking Paxil. I was taking Amitriptilene for IBS, but my symptoms had gotten so bad, that the doctor put me on Paxil, and a few weeks later told me it was all right to stop taking the Amitriptilene. There was no tapering down, or anything. Last week, I started waking at night for no reason, and then the symptoms got so bad. I now have a feeling of "impending doom" and I am so fatigued, irritable, etc. Is this normal? Is one supposed to feel like shit, a week and half after not taking Amitriptilene? I would expect some minor discomfort, for a few days, and that is a maybe, but these feelings are horrible. Any ideas? Should I wait a few more days, before caling the doctor? Many thanks in advance. Cheers, Mike

I’d call your doc today, and try to get some relief. Chip

Response:

one supposed to feel like shit, a week and half after not taking Amitriptilene?

yes if you abruptly stopped-it takes a week to leave your system -taking both paxil and amitriptyline together is bad medicine imo-they compete quite viruntly for specific receptor sites there are other tca ssri combos that are safer-so you now are feeling the full brunt of the paxil and the abrupt ceasation of the ami-get another doc-btw paxil is less effective in treating ibs then the sedating tca’s even though it may be the most sedating ssri and certainly the most anticholinergic it still doesn’t equate to ami your ami dose was low and buttricing it with a benzo may have provided better relief even now a benzo would do wonders LM

Response:

    Many thanks for the info. I am going to the doctor today. For reasons which I cannot relate here I am not able to take benzos. I feel so tightly wound up, that I cannot relax at all. I have become so jumpy, too. I do not dare drink any coffee, for obvious reasons. When the doctor said that it was all right to just stop taking amitriptilene, I had no idea that I would feel this badly. I have always been tightly wound up, even as a child. It was nice while I did not feel so wound up, until recently. All of this anxiety is making it impossible for me to exercise, (I usually ride a bicycle to and from work) I live in Brooklyn, and I normally ride into Manhattan every day. But, the last 5 months of all this anxiety has made it impossible. I used to ride 30 miles a day. I try to take a walk every evening, just a few miles, to help burn off my nervous energy. I will let you know how I make out at the doctors, and my thanks to those who answered my query, and to those who have had good thoughts for me. Cheers, Mike

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – one supposed to feel like shit, a week and half after not taking Amitriptilene? yes if you abruptly stopped-it takes a week to leave your system -taking both paxil and amitriptyline together is bad medicine imo-they compete quite viruntly for specific receptor sites there are other tca ssri combos that are safer-so you now are feeling the full brunt of the paxil and the abrupt ceasation of the ami-get another doc-btw paxil is less effective in treating ibs then the sedating tca’s even though it may be the most sedating ssri and certainly the most anticholinergic it still doesn’t equate to ami your ami dose was low and buttricing it with a benzo may have provided better relief even now a benzo would do wonders LM

Response:

Mike, Hope your appt goes well and do let us know how it goes… smiles, elise

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     Many thanks for the info. I am going to the doctor today. For reasons which I cannot relate here I am not able to take benzos. I feel so tightly wound up, that I cannot relax at all. I have become so jumpy, too. I do not dare drink any coffee, for obvious reasons. When the doctor said that it was all right to just stop taking amitriptilene, I had no idea that I would feel this badly. I have always been tightly wound up, even as a child. It was nice while I did not feel so wound up, until recently. All of this anxiety is making it impossible for me to exercise, (I usually ride a bicycle to and from work) I live in Brooklyn, and I normally ride into Manhattan every day. But, the last 5 months of all this anxiety has made it impossible. I used to ride 30 miles a day. I try to take a walk every evening, just a few miles, to help burn off my nervous energy. I will let you know how I make out at the doctors, and my thanks to those who answered my query, and to those who have had good thoughts for me. Cheers, Mike one supposed to feel like shit, a week and half after not taking Amitriptilene? yes if you abruptly stopped-it takes a week to leave your system -taking both paxil and amitriptyline together is bad medicine imo-they compete quite viruntly for specific receptor sites there are other tca ssri combos that are safer-so you now are feeling the full brunt of the paxil and the abrupt ceasation of the ami-get another doc-btw paxil is less effective in treating ibs then the sedating tca’s even though it may be the most sedating ssri and certainly the most anticholinergic it still doesn’t equate to ami your ami dose was low and buttricing it with a benzo may have provided better relief even now a benzo would do wonders LM

Response:

Hello,     Went to the doctor’s and he has increased my dosage of Paxil from 20 mg to 40 mg. I did not realize there was going to be a yoyo effect from not taking amitriptilene. I am looking forward to a normal night’s sleep (for me 6 or 7 hours) whenever that will occur, I cannot say, but I am trying to optimistic. Many thanks to all for the moral support. Cheers, Mike

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Mike, Hope your appt goes well and do let us know how it goes… smiles, elise     Many thanks for the info. I am going to the doctor today. For reasons which I cannot relate here I am not able to take benzos. I feel so tightly wound up, that I cannot relax at all. I have become so jumpy, too. I do not dare drink any coffee, for obvious reasons. When the doctor said that it was all right to just stop taking amitriptilene, I had no idea that I would feel this badly. I have always been tightly wound up, even as a child. It was nice while I did not feel so wound up, until recently. All of this anxiety is making it impossible for me to exercise, (I usually ride a bicycle to and from work) I live in Brooklyn, and I normally ride into Manhattan every day. But, the last 5 months of all this anxiety has made it impossible. I used to ride 30 miles a day. I try to take a walk every evening, just a few miles, to help burn off my nervous energy. I will let you know how I make out at the doctors, and my thanks to those who answered my query, and to those who have had good thoughts for me. Cheers, Mike one supposed to feel like shit, a week and half after not taking Amitriptilene? yes if you abruptly stopped-it takes a week to leave your system -taking both paxil and amitriptyline together is bad medicine imo-they compete quite viruntly for specific receptor sites there are other tca ssri combos that are safer-so you now are feeling the full brunt of the paxil and the abrupt ceasation of the ami-get another doc-btw paxil is less effective in treating ibs then the sedating tca’s even though it may be the most sedating ssri and certainly the most anticholinergic it still doesn’t equate to ami your ami dose was low and buttricing it with a benzo may have provided better relief even now a benzo would do wonders LM

Response:

For reasons which I cannot relate here I am not able to take benzos.

Mike, you already do.  Diazepam (Valium) and other benzodiazepine type chemicals are in every mouthful of food you eat. Ian

Response:

I took Zoloft for 2 days, I had very little sleep and completely horrifying dreams when I did get to sleep. I felt really shaky and nervous as well. I thought I would be nuts in a week if I would have stayed on. It affects people very differently!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi everyone.I’m on my 2nd dose of Zoloft,25 mgs,my first day I had extreme nausea.On the 2nd day my husband took me to the hospital.I completely zoned out.It was very scary.I plan on completing my treatment because over-coming this awful way of life is important to me.What I’m asking is,was this normal? Should I just lower my dosage?Thanks in advance. Hi Julie! I wish I could help you with the Zoloft question.  I just wanted to welcome you to a very caring group!!! Hugs, Di

Response:

Hi everyone.I’m on my 2nd dose of Zoloft,25 mgs,my first day I had extreme nausea.On the 2nd day my husband took me to the hospital.I completely zoned out.It was very scary.I plan on completing my treatment because over-coming this awful way of life is important to me.What I’m asking is,was this normal? Should I just lower my dosage?Thanks in advance. Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

Response:

HI Julie, Call your prescribing doctor but I don’t see what it would hurt weaning on at say 12.5 for a few days then upping the dose. Sometimes the side effects are just increased anxiety over taking the med. What do you mean by Zoned out? Hope you are feeling better. Hugs Charla —

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi everyone.I’m on my 2nd dose of Zoloft,25 mgs,my first day I had extreme nausea.On the 2nd day my husband took me to the hospital.I completely zoned out.It was very scary.I plan on completing my treatment because over-coming this awful way of life is important to me.What I’m asking is,was this normal? Should I just lower my dosage?Thanks in advance. Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

Response:

Hi everyone.I’m on my 2nd dose of Zoloft,25 mgs,my first day I had extreme nausea.On the 2nd day my husband took me to the hospital.I completely zoned out.It was very scary.I plan on completing my treatment because over-coming this awful way of life is important to me.What I’m asking is,was this normal? Should I just lower my dosage?Thanks in advance.

It’s best to start at 12.5mg with Z if you have anxiety problems.  It’s difficult to know what to say about your side effects, though.  It can cause nausea, but I’m not sure what you mean by "zoned out" though it must have been serious to go to the hospital.  Make sure you describe in detail what happened to your psychiatrist.  If you give the ng better details on the side effects you may get better advice. Best of luck to you, Matt

Response:

Thanks!It really helps to know there are people here who can relate to how I feel.Well after only 3 days my dr. took me off Zoloft.My body couldn’t handle the side-effects.I feel really disappointed because I’ve heard others have good results from this.He said we would try something different in about a week.Any ideas on something that may be better for me? Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

Response:

Thanks!It really helps to know there are people here who can relate to how I feel.Well after only 3 days my dr. took me off Zoloft.My body couldn’t handle the side-effects.I feel really disappointed because I’ve heard others have good results from this.He said we would try something different in about a week.Any ideas on something that may be better for me?

There are lots of possibilities. Another SSRI like Celexa would be a possibility. If one SSRI doesn’t work another might. It may be augmented by a benzo like (preferably IMO) Xanax. But if you try Celexa start at *5 mg* and no more. I am not totally convinced that you wouldn’t be able to benefit from Zoloft if it had been administered in the right low dose but Celexa works as well and supposedly has a lower side effect profile. There are many other possibilites: a TCA like imipramine, desipramine etc. preferably in a combo with a benzo, or newer AD’s like especially Effexor. Etc.etc. Philip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

Response:

Hi everyone.I’m on my 2nd dose of Zoloft,25 mgs,my first day I had extreme nausea.On the 2nd day my husband took me to the hospital.I completely zoned out.It was very scary.I plan on completing my treatment because over-coming this awful way of life is important to me.What I’m asking is,was this normal? Should I just lower my dosage?Thanks in advance.

Hi Julie! I wish I could help you with the Zoloft question.  I just wanted to welcome you to a very caring group!!! Hugs, Di

Response:

You shouldn’t take Zoloft on an empty stomach.  Actually you shouldn’t take an pills (e.g. vitamins) on an empty stomach unless the pharmacist tells you to do so.

Actually since taking Z (though Z is somewhat unique in this) on a full stomach increases absorption of the med, if she wanted an even smaller effect than 12.5 mg would give her she could try it on an empty stomach. Matt

Response:

In the UK, my doctor said that there is no dosage less than 50mg. And so I had bad stuff hapening to me. Which included nausea, I assume you were not sick tho. I would have carried on but I had to work and so I stopped after two days, the side effects are ment to go away.

In the US we have scored 25mg tablets.  You could get a pill cutter which would would take the 50mg, if scored, down to 12.5mg.  (But I suppose this is a little after the fact.) Matt

Response:

After what I experienced I would be terrified to take 50mgs! I’m hoping to do better on a low dosage. Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

Response:

In the UK, my doctor said that there is no dosage less than 50mg. And so I had bad stuff hapening to me. Which included nausea, I assume you were not sick tho. I would have carried on but I had to work and so I stopped after two days, the side effects are ment to go away. — If I could start again. A million milles away I would keep myself. I would find a way. It’s a damn mad world. And It will get madder before it ends. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi everyone.I’m on my 2nd dose of Zoloft,25 mgs,my first day I had extreme nausea.On the 2nd day my husband took me to the hospital.I completely zoned out.It was very scary.I plan on completing my treatment because over-coming this awful way of life is important to me.What I’m asking is,was this normal? Should I just lower my dosage?Thanks in advance. Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

Response:

Thanks everyone for the advice.This was really a scary reaction I had.It’s hard to explain what happened.I’m seeing my dr. tomorrow.The hospital gave me benadryl for the reaction,it helped.I’m thinking maybe I started at too high a dose,my body wasn’t ready.I intend to continue my treatment.I will be 40 this month,it seems like I’ve lived most of my life in fear. Maybe with the help of my dr. and people who understand what this is like,I will find a successful treatment.Thanks All! Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

Response:

Hi everyone.I’m on my 2nd dose of Zoloft,25 mgs,my first day I had extreme nausea.On the 2nd day my husband took me to the hospital.I completely zoned out.It was very scary.I plan on completing my treatment because over-coming this awful way of life is important to me.What I’m asking is,was this normal? Should I just lower my dosage?Thanks in advance.

Nausea and feeling zoned out are common initial side effects of Zoloft but it seems you had a really bad reaction. It is advisable IMO to start Zoloft at 12,5 mgs, stay there for a week and then raise the dose in increments of 12,5 mgs every week or at whatever pace is comfortable for you. *Starting low & going slow* will minimize the initial side effects. Moreover this could be helped by taking a benzo like Xanax on the side *as needed*, at least during the time you are weaning on Zoloft. You should give Zoloft a 6-8 week trial to be able to properly assess its effect but it’s likely that you will feel better much earlier. What does your doctor say? Philip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

Response:

Julie, Sorry I can’t help you with the zoloft question because I don’t take that, but just wanted to say I hope everything goes well for you and you can get back to a more normal life. smiles, elise

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi everyone.I’m on my 2nd dose of Zoloft,25 mgs,my first day I had extreme nausea.On the 2nd day my husband took me to the hospital.I completely zoned out.It was very scary.I plan on completing my treatment because over-coming this awful way of life is important to me.What I’m asking is,was this normal? Should I just lower my dosage?Thanks in advance. Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

Response:

I don’t know where you live but do you think that it ia normal, to give somebody shock treatment for anxiety and panic??

NO! It is something like a last resort for depression but there is no evidence AFAIK that it works for PAD. No ECT! I don’t think so, maybe for people who  have only depression. but that I am depri is because of the fakt that I have try’d now so many med; and the only one who helpt me was Remeron. But the side effect where so bad that I had to stop.

But we know now that those side effects were from the fillers. You found that out yourself! And soon Remeron will be available in loquid form and your troubles may be over…. they may be over earlier when the Dutonin (Serzone) will start to work…. I am optimistic…. love Diana.

Philip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is it normal that I feel very depri? When I was in Ireland I had not a very good time, I had than for med; selexa and clonazepam. I felt very depri. Now I am back for 14 days and I have other med; Dutonin( serzone) but I feel more and more depri. I know the new med need it’s time. But this is something that  is for me well known. I had this feeling before and it’s make’s me afraid, not for myself because I wish that I had the opportunitie to……. But for not my family. I am so tired from al this, every 8 weeks other med; sometimes less than 4 weeks. because I have sometimes very bad side effects, and than I have to stop. this is now going on for 18 mounths and I am fed up with all this. I don’t want no more, I had it. Before I went to Ireland I brought all the pills that I had safe’t to my gp. That was not a very good idea from me, so I start over again. the first I have already, I don’t know anymore for this moment what to do.everything that I try is going wrong. WHY, I feel my self worthless that I can get myself under control. Love Diana. Please no answer on my pc. {{{Diana}}} You are *not* worthless. You just feel that way because you are depressed. It is a symptom of depression. Give the Serzone some more time to work. If no med is able to help your depression, there is shock treatment as a last resort. Love, Chip Before you buy.

Response:

Dear Diana, Yes I would say it is very normal to feel depressed and frustrated after 18 months of trying so many different drugs and sometimes feeling worse. This can be a very long road. I am doing the same thing but thankful when the good days DO come, and they will! Sorry you are having such a hard time. I am just sticking with the Klonopin and no more antidepressants. None of them helped me – too many side effects – and life is OK most of the time. I hope the Serzone starts to help you soon. Is it giving you side effects?? Love,

Response:

Is it normal that I feel very depri? When I was in Ireland I had not a very good time, I had than for med; selexa and clonazepam. I felt very depri. Now I am back for 14 days and I have other med; Dutonin( serzone) but I feel more and more depri. I know the new med need it’s time. But this is something that  is for me well known. I had this feeling before and it’s make’s me afraid, not for myself because I wish that I had the opportunitie to……. But for not my family. I am so tired from al this, every 8 weeks other med; sometimes less than 4 weeks. because I have sometimes very bad side effects, and than I have to stop. this is now going on for 18 mounths and I am fed up with all this. I don’t want no more, I had it. Before I went to Ireland I brought all the pills that I had safe’t to my gp. That was not a very good idea from me, so I start over again. the first I have already, I don’t know anymore for this moment what to do.everything that I try is going wrong. WHY, I feel my self worthless that I can get myself under control. Love Diana. Please no answer on my pc.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is it normal that I feel very depri? When I was in Ireland I had not a very good time, I had than for med; selexa and clonazepam. I felt very depri. Now I am back for 14 days and I have other med; Dutonin( serzone) but I feel more and more depri. I know the new med need it’s time. But this is something that  is for me well known. I had this feeling before and it’s make’s me afraid, not for myself because I wish that I had the opportunitie to……. But for not my family. I am so tired from al this, every 8 weeks other med; sometimes less than 4 weeks. because I have sometimes very bad side effects, and than I have to stop. this is now going on for 18 mounths and I am fed up with all this. I don’t want no more, I had it. Before I went to Ireland I brought all the pills that I had safe’t to my gp. That was not a very good idea from me, so I start over again. the first I have already, I don’t know anymore for this moment what to do.everything that I try is going wrong. WHY, I feel my self worthless that I can get myself under control. Love Diana. Please no answer on my pc.

{{{Diana}}} You are *not* worthless. You just feel that way because you are depressed. It is a symptom of depression. Give the Serzone some more time to work. If no med is able to help your depression, there is shock treatment as a last resort. Love, Chip Before you buy.

Response:

I don’t know where you live but do you think that it ia normal, to give somebody shock treatment for anxiety and panic?? I don’t think so, maybe for people who  have only depression. but that I am depri is because of the fakt that I have try’d now so many med; and the only one who helpt me was Remeron. But the side effect where so bad that I had to stop. love Diana. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is it normal that I feel very depri? When I was in Ireland I had not a very good time, I had than for med; selexa and clonazepam. I felt very depri. Now I am back for 14 days and I have other med; Dutonin( serzone) but I feel more and more depri. I know the new med need it’s time. But this is something that  is for me well known. I had this feeling before and it’s make’s me afraid, not for myself because I wish that I had the opportunitie to……. But for not my family. I am so tired from al this, every 8 weeks other med; sometimes less than 4 weeks. because I have sometimes very bad side effects, and than I have to stop. this is now going on for 18 mounths and I am fed up with all this. I don’t want no more, I had it. Before I went to Ireland I brought all the pills that I had safe’t to my gp. That was not a very good idea from me, so I start over again. the first I have already, I don’t know anymore for this moment what to do.everything that I try is going wrong. WHY, I feel my self worthless that I can get myself under control. Love Diana. Please no answer on my pc. {{{Diana}}} You are *not* worthless. You just feel that way because you are depressed. It is a symptom of depression. Give the Serzone some more time to work. If no med is able to help your depression, there is shock treatment as a last resort. Love, Chip Before you buy.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is it normal that I feel very depri? When I was in Ireland I had not a very good time, I had than for med; selexa and clonazepam. I felt very depri. Now I am back for 14 days and I have other med; Dutonin( serzone) but I feel more and more depri. I know the new med need it’s time. But this is something that  is for me well known. I had this feeling before and it’s make’s me afraid, not for myself because I wish that I had the opportunitie to……. But for not my family. I am so tired from al this, every 8 weeks other med; sometimes less than 4 weeks. because I have sometimes very bad side effects, and than I have to stop. this is now going on for 18 mounths and I am fed up with all this. I don’t want no more, I had it. Before I went to Ireland I brought all the pills that I had safe’t to my gp. That was not a very good idea from me, so I start over again. the first I have already, I don’t know anymore for this moment what to do.everything that I try is going wrong. WHY, I feel my self worthless that I can get myself under control. Love Diana. Please no answer on my pc.

Hi Diana! I feel so bad for you!  You are depressed and I’ve been depressed lately.  Just in the last day or two I’ve been feeling a little better.  The doc raised the Desipramine over the weekend and it made me more depressed.  I’m not taking the extra anymore and I feel better.  Please keep calling your doctor to see what else he can do and hang in there.  It has to get better for you and I believe it will!   {{{{{{{Diana}}}}}}} Diane

Response:

Question:

Hi Andy: It’s been a while.  I am in the Bot B study too and recieved 10,000 U the 1st  time and had maybe 10 days that seemed to be some improvement, but only with  the tremor not the spasms.  11 weeks later, now 2 weeks ago, I recieved 12,500  U and once again, it was only a small improvement.  It is kinda dissapointing!   Like you, I have antibodies to A.  I will be in Nashville this weekend and am  looking forward to hearing some other ideas.  Although, my MDS at Emory here  in Atlanta, really keeps up and in discouraging the Selective Deneration  procedure.  One of the surgeons here is doing the Deep Brain Stimulation on  Parkinson’s and essential tremor with wonderful results.  I guess that is my  hope!  My MDS tried to find him(Dr, Jerry Vitek) today so I could talk to him  about when he was going to start this procedure on Dystonia patients and we  couldn’t hook up with him, so my doc is suppose to talk to him about it.    Did you have any symptoms of dry mouth or difficulty swallowing after the Bot  B?   I did, and became very excited believing it was going to help and it did  some but only a short period of time (2 weeks). Just thought I would share that with you! Take care, Kathie Nsta of GA

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Dear Andy, I’m so sorry about the Botox B not working for you.   As Elf already asked, I too thought that the B was made specifically for those  who had antibodies for the A. I can’t know for sure how you feel, but can imagine that your hopes were very  high.  Again, I’m so sorry and sad that it didn’t work for you. Take Care, Gina

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BOTULINUM TOXIN TYPE A    Botulinum toxin type A (BOT-yoo-lye-num) is used to treat    certain eye conditions, such as:        Blepharospasm — A condition in which the eyelid will not         stay open, because of a spasm of a muscle of the eye.        Strabismus — A condition in which the eyes do not line up         properly.    Botulinum toxin type A is injected into the surrounding    muscle or tissue of the eye, but not into the eye itself.    Depending on your condition, more than one treatment may be    required.    This medicine is to be administered only by, or under the    immediate supervision of, your doctor. It is available in the    following dosage form:   Parenteral-Local  Injection (U.S. and Canada) Before Receiving This Medicine    In deciding to receive a medicine, the risks of receiving the    medicine must be weighed against the good it will do. This is a    decision you and your doctor will make. For botulinum toxin type    A, the following should be considered:  Allergies  – Tell your doctor if you have ever had any unusual or allergic reaction to botulinum toxin type A. Also tell your health care professional if you are allergic to any other substances. Pregnancy — Studies on effects in pregnancy have not been done in either humans or animals. Breast-feeding — It is not known whether botulinum toxin type A passes into the breast milk. However, this medicine has not been reported to cause problems in nursing babies. Children  – Studies on this medicine have been done only in adult patients, and there is no specific information comparing use of botulinum toxin type A in children up to 12 years of age with use in other age groups. Older adults   — Many medicines have not been studied specifically in older people. Therefore, it may not be known whether they work exactly the same way they do in younger adults. Although there is no specific information comparing use of botulinum toxin type A in the elderly with use in other age groups, this medicine is not expected to cause different side effects or problems in older people than it does in younger adults. Other medicines  – Although certain medicines should not be used together at all, in other cases two different medicines may be used together even if an interaction might occur. In these cases, your doctor may want to change the dose, or other precautions may be necessary. Tell your health care professional if you are using any other ophthalmic prescription or nonprescription (over-the-counter [OTC]) medicine. Other medical problems  – The presence of other medical problems  may affect the use of botulinum toxin type A. Make sure you tell your doctor if you have any other medical problems, especially: Heart problems or other medical conditions that may worsen with rapidly increasing activity — Treatment with botulinum toxin type A may give you better vision and the desire to become more active in your daily life; this may put a strain on your heart and body. Infection with  Clostridium botulinum   toxin (botulism poisoning), history of — Persons with a history of infection with  Clostridium botulinum   toxin (botulism poisoning) may have produced antibodies that may interfere with botulinum toxin type A therapy and make it less effective. Proper Use of This Medicine Dosing   — The dose of botulinum toxin type A will be different for different patients. The following information includes only the average doses of botulinum toxin type A. For  injection   dosage form:  – For certain eye conditions: Adults and children 12 years of age and older — One or more injections into the muscles around the eyes one or more times, depending on the condition being treated. Children up to 12 years of age — Use and dose must be determined by your doctor. Precautions After Receiving This Medicine. After you have received this medicine and your vision is better, you may find that you are a lot more active than you were before. You should increase your activities slowly and carefully to allow your heart and body time to get stronger. Also, before  you start any exercise program, check with your doctor. Side Effects of This Medicine. Along with its needed effects, a medicine may cause some unwanted effects. Although not all of these side effects may occur, if they do occur they may need medical attention. Check with your doctor as soon as possible if any of the following side effects occur: More common Dryness of the eye; inability to close the eyelid completely. Less common or rare. Decreased blinking; irritation of the cornea (colored portion) of the eye; turning outward or inward of the edge of the eyelid. Other side effects may occur that usually do not need medical attention. These side effects may go away as your body adjusts to the medicine. However, check with your doctor if any of the following side effects continue or are bothersome: More common Blue or purplish bruise on eyelid; drooping of the upper eyelid; eye pointing upward or downward instead of straight ahead; irritation or watering of the eye; sensitivity of the eye to light. Less common or rare. Difficulty finding the location of objects; double vision; skin rash; swelling of the eyelid skin. Other side effects not listed above may also occur in some patients. If you notice any other effects, check with your doctor.

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I heard the final phase for Botox B will be in March or April and then probably a year later for FDA approval.  FYI Andy

Response:

Hi Kathie, Thanks for all the info. on Botox B.  I’m really interested in this, as Botox A has never really worked for me and I feel it’s even made my dystonia worse. Do you know if ‘they’ are checking out the possibility of symtems getting worse like with the ‘A’ ? Keep us posted !! Gina

Response:

Hi Everyone: Just wanted to let you know that I am in the Bot B (NeuroBloc) study here in Atlanta at Emory.  I am in the dose escalation study. 1st time, I recieved 10,000units (equal to about 200units of A), for me I developed hoarseness the next day, some difficulty swallowing for about 2 weeks, and a very dry mouth-like you get with the anti-cholinergics(Artane)), I have a very active dystonic tremor more than a pulling and it helped with the tremor for about 2-3 weeks the 1st time.  I didn’t recieve that much effect with the pain level though.  2nd series (12,500 unitsgiven=250 of A) was 4 weeks ago,that was 11 weeks after the 1st.  I had a more positive effect this time- the tremor is more diminished, the pain is decreased and so far at 4 weeks, it is still effective.  I had developed antibodies to A after 3 years, and that was in 1994 so this has been a tremendous relief to me.  It seems that the dose range with the B is what they are trying to determine, also the safety factor.  For me, it does not seem to help quite as much as A did for me but my dstonia has progressed in the last 3 years.  It is hard to pull out of my MDS much info about other patients he is treating with the B.  I have the info from the first double blind trials with B, and they were not using a large enough dose to see a lot of improvement,but there was more when they used the 10,000u (that was the highest dose they gave at Emory) so there is hope.  I will keep you all updated on my progress. By the way, you can e-mail Aethna Neurosciences and they will send you info on the 1st study. You all are a great bunch of people at a.s.d., I don’t get to check the posts often but when I do I can feel the love and support through my p.c.  I was in Nashville for the Symposium.  It was great!  By the way, everyone at the sym. was given a copy of the PSA that was done about dystonia by LA Lakers Jerry West, has anyone heard if that is being run anywhere?  Much thanks to David Stein(who does the 1-800-HURTFUL calls for NSTA) he was the one who arranged the PSA. Also, thanks to Deb who posted the highlights from Nashville here-I wasn’t attentive enough to catch all of that!!! Best wishes to everyone, Kathie

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Oxford (UK) is just about to start trials for Botox B. What have the results been like in USA/Canada? is it something to get excited about? Any different side effects? Thanks – Chris Usenet

If I remember right, Botox B is not quite as good as the original, but if you develop anti-bodies to the original, it is a very good option. Ray T.

Response:

Chris,  I just got back from the NSTA supposium  (well the 1st day that is:) and they  did address Botox B (which will be marketed as "NeuroBloc") …. Some of their  patients are seeing results …. ?? I don’t know personally though… Andy  might be able to "share" some information with you <G I’ll let him "tell ya". Elf in Tn…Romona – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Oxford (UK) is just about to start trials for Botox B. What have the results been like in USA/Canada? is it something to get excited about? Any different side effects? Thanks – Chris

Response:

Oxford (UK) is just about to start trials for Botox B. What have the results been like in USA/Canada? is it something to get excited about? Any different side effects? Thanks – Chris

Response:

Hi gang, It has been awhile since I posted.  No luck with Botox B for me.  

Sorry to read  this, Andy.  I hadn’t heard from you  for a while and figured everything was okay.   You mentioned stress.  I  found stress  was "the great exacerbater" of muscle spasms, so much so, that I had to  stop working.   I am an accountant by profession. On a few occasions, I thought of returning back to work and,  every time, memories of what it was like at the office made me turn into a cold sweat. Dystonia  made my life  miserable, I think that at one point, at least this is what a psychologist mentioned, there was a danger of suicide.  Living this way,  in constant pain, and the pressures  at work,  was   too  much. Sorry for bringing this up, but if there are any out there who feel this way, and feel guilty about  having second thoughts regarding  their careers,  my advice to you is don’t feel this way.   Dystonia is a serious syndrome, don’t let anyone tell you differently. Regarding Phenol, I think you may find what you are looking for at: http://www.rehabnet.com/monographs/nblock.htm Regards, Gene http://personal.nbnet.nb.ca/ev or http://personal.nbnet.nb.ca/ev/index.html

Response:

I am going to try to beat Tommye to this one, Teresa!  What are facets? Do they fasten your ribs to the rest of you?  Do they hook your knees to your legs? I do not think I have any facets, could be my problem–LOL–Sue

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Hi gang, It has been awhile since I posted.  No luck with Botox B for me.  I tried it twice and the second time getting the maxium allowed under the study.  I have heard that it has helped other ST’ers.  So, that is good!  I am trying Mexiletane now to see if this helps.  I don’t know if Botox B is not  working becuase of the stress I am under (work, personnal) or that I have antibodies to Botox A and still have them for Botox B.  Stress is killing me.  I hope I can relax a little in 98.  Will see.  Doctor thinks antibodies…  Lucky me.  Just thought I would keep you posted.   New:  Well my doctor is going to start his own study with Phenol (don’t know about this just like ITX which no one is trying yet) because it destorys the nerves to the muscles (they way I understand it).  It may be good for some people but me I don’t want to destory nothing at this time.  Also, he wants to try some of the new Parkinsons medication approved by FDA as well.  Will keep you posted. Andy

Response:

(APENFAN) writes: It has been awhile since I posted.  No luck with Botox B for me.  I tried it

twice and the second time getting the maxium allowed under the study. Andy!  We have missed you!  So glad you are back with us, although the botox debacle is a bummer!  Post again, okay? Love, Mary Beth

Response:

Stress and dystonia is wierd for me.  There are times when, under great stress, that my spasms are not any worse at all; then at other times, with the same level of stress, by spasms go bozonkers! Take care- Gina

Odd, isn’t it?   What works for one, won’t for another. Stress, as you say, exacerbates "at times". It’s as  if dystonia is responding to exterior forces, and what it is I haven’t got a clue.   Dr. Joseph Tsui, in conversation with Professor Eugene Smith, discussed this delema.  Here is how it went: If dystonia symptoms originate because of a problem in the brain, have you neurologists studied the brain enough to know what’s really going on there? Attempts have been done.  This is a conditiontion of motor control and therefore lots of programs in motor control are involved with that.  There have been recent publications on the use of PET scans–PET meaning positro emission tomography –in writer’s cramp, for example.  When you activate certain movements, the certain areas of the brain can light up.  They pick up some very subtle abnormalities–that is, a little deviating compared with the normal.  But all these are so embryonic in  their development that they are so difficult to interprets. We don’t even have a good pattern for normal. What we understand currently I can only put into a very simple example.  The basal ganglia is likened to something like a computer–a computer chip.  To simplify it, it seems to contain all the complex movement patterns of the body and store them in terms of programs.  These programs are stored there when we’re young.  You learn certain complex movements.  You learn to play a piano and  when you’re young the basal ganglia is a very plastic structure.  It accepts all sorts of programming, but once the programs are there, and as one grows older, this plasticity is lost.  That is, you learn things with much more difficulty when you are getting older. These programs are interconnected with each other, executing through the cortex so we can do several things at the same time.  I can talk to you, but I can also get my hand and play around with it without even thinking about it.  Then I am just pulling on a few switches.  These are all activated like  computer switches.  But in dystonia some of these programs go wrong, particularly in focal dystonia. In writer’s cramp, for example, the writing program goes wrong, but the hand is completely normal  doing any other things.  When you want to flip on  the switch of writing, it starts going crazy.  The interesting issue is that there are at least two writing programs–one using the wrist and fingers, the  other by using more proximal shoulder movements.  Now most patients with writer’s cramp when they write have problems, but when they use chalk to  write on a blackboard, they all right.  They can write perfectly well. So all this helps us to understand that it is actually much more complex than a computer–that there are motor-programming problems within the basal ganglia, and, if something goes wrong there, the action will be abnormal. That area also governs the normal posture of different parts of the body, so if that program goes wrong and it decides that the neck should be twisted, then unfortunately the brain would have to listen to this program. So we believe that it is probably a biochemical abnormality, but even that conclusion is  standing on shaky grounds. Because right now if you believe in the connections, maybe the  biochemical substance there is correct but the connections are wrong.  but the theory about this biochemical imbalance is that, in some  patients with dystonia, you can improve the  dystonia by giving them therapeutic agents  like anti-cholinergic drugs, and therefore we think that it may be a biochemical imbalance. But unfortunately not all patients respond to the same drugs.  A well-known example is that –if you know the transmitter called dopamine for Parkinson’s disease–some patients respond very  well to dopamine, that is, a drug that enhances dopamine.  But some other patients respond to drugs that oppose dopamine, and so we are completely at a loss.  We are confused.  Drugs that work in totally different directions can be beneficial in one patient and vice versa in another patient, and it is only dopamine. The we come to talk about cholinergic substances.  People have been using anti-cholinergic drugs, and there has been a report on cholinergic substances–that is again a different direction–that work well in the same kind of illness.  The more convincing issue  is that some patients with neck dystonia can come with a history that initially the head turns to the left and after a while turns to the right.  So we don’t really know what everything means.  In writer’s cramp, for example, some patients will start off having problems  with the right hand, then shift to the use of the left hand to write.  A small proportion of these patients actually after years develop the same problem in the other hand.  This also helps to support the fact that it may be a central problem rather than a more peripheral problem.  the theories are not very well founded.  It could be a biochemical imbalance, but I suspect that in some patients, particularly in specific problems, it may be something more subtle than a biochemical imbalance. Well, if you don’t know what causes dystonia, or if it has more than one possible cause, how can you treat it?   Or do you sometimes have to say, "You will just have to live with it"? Anything short of knowledge of the underlying cause we really cannot provide a cure for the condition.   Symptomatic treatments for the condition with all the medications have been very unsatisfactory.  Most patients get temporary relief but the side-effects are so bad that most of them would finally give up the medications, and therefore  it is not good at all. Although it is not a cure, botulinum toxin provides a very good symptomatic relief for many patients.  It has provided at least  some hope and also given the doctors something to do to help  the patient.  And that actually significantly improved the awareness of the condition.  Lots of research has been done, and the funding agencies have paid more attention to funding research in dystonia.  Botulism: the first reported case was in 1897.  The word comes from the Latin word for sausages-food poisoning from sausages,  bad sausage. Two types of neurotoxins have been identified initially-type A and type B neurotoxin.  More and more protein types of the toxin have  been found-to 1970 up to 7 types described: A, B, C, D, E, F, G (C further subdivided into I and 2).  In 1924 the bacterium was finally given a name, clostridium botulinum.  All neurotoxins are inactivated by boiling, and only A, B, E, F have been shown to give rise to human clinical botulism.  Only type A has been a marketed drug, though type F was recently investigated and shown to be effective in patients who have grown resistant to type A; the duration of effectiveness was much shorter weeks rather than months.  Type B toxin  is currently being investigated in a multi-center study. What the toxin does in the body is to go to a junction between  nerves and muscles, and it blocks the impulses between nerves and muscles.  Normally what happens is that, when you want the arm to move or want to contract a certain muscle of the arm,  your brain sets off an electrical impulse that is conducted by a  nerve like a piece of wire right down to the junction between the nerve and the muscle. But it is not electricity that goes through  to the muscle. At the end of the nerve it releases a chemical, and that chemical goes on to tell the muscle to contract.   Botulinum toxin actually stops this process.  It prevents the  release of this chemical from the nerve endings and as a result  it gives rise to paralysis or weakness of the muscle, depending  on the dose.  The toxin attaches itself to the nerve terminals; it is something like ingested by the nerve terminal and then within the nerve cell it exerts its action to prevent the release of the substance called acetylcholine. About the history of the toxin I think full credit has to be given  to Alan Scott, who collaborated with the bacteriologist Edward  Shantz.  They worked together in the development of the toxin.   Alan Scott is an ophthalmologist in San Francisco.  He had been  always longing to develop a method to replace surgery to treat a condition called strabismus, which is a condition of crossed eyes in children.  In these children the eyes actually look in different directions, and the way to help them is to cut away one muscle  that pulls the eye to one side and therefore the eyes can be restored to look straight ahead. This procedure, he thought, might be replaced by an injection of a substance which could temporarily weaken the muscle.  As the child growsup, the condition may be self-correcting, so if they are left with a normal muscle they probably will end up better.  He had been working on that, and in 1973 in a publication we found out that this botullnum toxin A had been able to do that.  That is, the substance is quite safe.  It does not produce any generalized bad reactions.  It does not produce any local reactions, and it can also give rise to a rather predictable weakness for a period of time, ranging from several months up to eight months in the monkey.  With that he worked on to actually apply it in the human, and in 1980 he made the first publication of its use as an alternative to surgery in children, and he was quite successful with that. The story would have just ended there, but there’s another condition called blepharospasm.  This condition, now classified as a neurological condition, is a focal dystonia. But because  the symptoms occur in the eyelids, most patients go to see eye  doctors because the eyes are

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Response:

Andy, I’m so sorry that Botox just doesn’t work for you!!!  I’d really do some major research before I go the "phenol route"–but if you pain is bad enough, you will get to the point you will try anything, but Let’s just hope and pray that it doesn’t get that bad!!  I’m here if you need a shoulder…you know, sometimes we all do.  Keep us informed on yourself, please. Love Ya, Tommye – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Andy,  Long time no hear from kiddo …. I’m so sorry to hear about the second round of Botox B (max dose) not working….:::major sad face::: Phenol … I’ve read about that … Gene sent a post with url(s) a few months ago …. hum ..guess I need to go back and re-read it. I knew that it could cause "damage" … but a niggling of memory is there …isn’t he phenol a effective treatment in managing some of the symptoms … ????? Good luck at the next dr.s appt … keep us updated on how everything is going …the good, bad and duckly(opps that wouldn’t apply since your with Dr.B:) …many hugs and lots of love from all the "elves" here in TN…Romona

Response:

Andy,  Long time no hear from kiddo …. I’m so sorry to hear about the second round of Botox B (max dose) not working….:::major sad face::: Phenol … I’ve read about that … Gene sent a post with url(s) a few months ago …. hum ..guess I need to go back and re-read it. I knew that it could cause "damage" … but a niggling of memory is there …isn’t he phenol a effective treatment in managing some of the symptoms … ????? Good luck at the next dr.s appt … keep us updated on how everything is going …the good, bad and duckly(opps that wouldn’t apply since your with Dr.B:) …many hugs and lots of love from all the "elves" here in TN…Romona

Response:

Gang, I had to add my 2 cents worth on this one-lol.   I, as everyone else have tried conventional and other medicine.  I had the facets in my upper lumbar spine fractured (I believe by chiropractor) years ago.  I worked for and was also treated by a Pain Specialist last year.  He used Phenol on the nerves going to the facets.  I STILL HAVE NO PAIN THERE!!!!!!!  I had some weird reaction in my knee and leg muscles on that side for a day or two – did not last long – no other problems.  You might want to consider giving it a try.  If I had that choice, with my limited experience and success – I would try it.     Teresa

Response:

Wow Gene!!  What an excellent response – Thank You!! Gina – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Stress and dystonia is wierd for me.  There are times when, under great stress, that my spasms are not any worse at all; then at other times, with the same level of stress, by spasms go bozonkers! Take care- Gina Odd, isn’t it?   What works for one, won’t for another. Stress, as you say, exacerbates "at times". It’s as  if dystonia is responding to exterior forces, and what it is I haven’t got a clue.   Dr. Joseph Tsui, in conversation with Professor Eugene Smith, discussed this delema.  Here is how it went: If dystonia symptoms originate because of a problem in the brain, have you neurologists studied the brain enough to know what’s really going on there? Attempts have been done.  This is a conditiontion of motor control and therefore lots of programs in motor control are involved with that.  There have been recent publications on the use of PET scans–PET meaning positro emission tomography –in writer’s cramp, for example.  When you activate certain movements, the certain areas of the brain can light up.  They pick up some very subtle abnormalities–that is, a little deviating compared with the normal.  But all these are so embryonic in  their development that they are so difficult to interprets. We don’t even have a good pattern for normal. What we understand currently I can only put into a very simple example.  The basal ganglia is likened to something like a computer–a computer chip.  To simplify it, it seems to contain all the complex movement patterns of the body and store them in terms of programs.  These programs are stored there when we’re young.  You learn certain complex movements.  You learn to play a piano and  when you’re young the basal ganglia is a very plastic structure.  It accepts all sorts of programming, but once the programs are there, and as one grows older, this plasticity is lost.  That is, you learn things with much more difficulty when you are getting older. These programs are interconnected with each other, executing through the cortex so we can do several things at the same time.  I can talk to you, but I can also get my hand and play around with it without even thinking about it.  Then I am just pulling on a few switches.  These are all activated like  computer switches.  But in dystonia some of these programs go wrong, particularly in focal dystonia. In writer’s cramp, for example, the writing program goes wrong, but the hand is completely normal  doing any other things.  When you want to flip on  the switch of writing, it starts going crazy.  The interesting issue is that there are at least two writing programs–one using the wrist and fingers, the  other by using more proximal shoulder movements.  Now most patients with writer’s cramp when they write have problems, but when they use chalk to  write on a blackboard, they all right.  They can write perfectly well. So all this helps us to understand that it is actually much more complex than a computer–that there are motor-programming problems within the basal ganglia, and, if something goes wrong there, the action will be abnormal. That area also governs the normal posture of different parts of the body, so if that program goes wrong and it decides that the neck should be twisted, then unfortunately the brain would have to listen to this program. So we believe that it is probably a biochemical abnormality, but even that conclusion is  standing on shaky grounds. Because right now if you believe in the connections, maybe the  biochemical substance there is correct but the connections are wrong.  but the theory about this biochemical imbalance is that, in some  patients with dystonia, you can improve the  dystonia by giving them therapeutic agents  like anti-cholinergic drugs, and therefore we think that it may be a biochemical imbalance. But unfortunately not all patients respond to the same drugs.  A well-known example is that –if you know the transmitter called dopamine for Parkinson’s disease–some patients respond very  well to dopamine, that is, a drug that enhances dopamine.  But some other patients respond to drugs that oppose dopamine, and so we are completely at a loss.  We are confused.  Drugs that work in totally different directions can be beneficial in one patient and vice versa in another patient, and it is only dopamine. The we come to talk about cholinergic substances.  People have been using anti-cholinergic drugs, and there has been a report on cholinergic substances–that is again a different direction–that work well in the same kind of illness.  The more convincing issue  is that some patients with neck dystonia can come with a history that initially the head turns to the left and after a while turns to the right.  So we don’t really know what everything means.  In writer’s cramp, for example, some patients will start off having problems  with the right hand, then shift to the use of the left hand to write.  A small proportion of these patients actually after years develop the same problem in the other hand.  This also helps to support the fact that it may be a central problem rather than a more peripheral problem.  the theories are not very well founded.  It could be a biochemical imbalance, but I suspect that in some patients, particularly in specific problems, it may be something more subtle than a biochemical imbalance. Well, if you don’t know what causes dystonia, or if it has more than one possible cause, how can you treat it?   Or do you sometimes have to say, "You will just have to live with it"? Anything short of knowledge of the underlying cause we really cannot provide a cure for the condition.   Symptomatic treatments for the condition with all the medications have been very unsatisfactory.  Most patients get temporary relief but the side-effects are so bad that most of them would finally give up the medications, and therefore  it is not good at all. Although it is not a cure, botulinum toxin provides a very good symptomatic relief for many patients.  It has provided at least  some hope and also given the doctors something to do to help  the patient.  And that actually significantly improved the awareness of the condition.  Lots of research has been done, and the funding agencies have paid more attention to funding research in dystonia.  Botulism: the first reported case was in 1897.  The word comes from the Latin word for sausages-food poisoning from sausages,  bad sausage. Two types of neurotoxins have been identified initially-type A and type B neurotoxin.  More and more protein types of the toxin have  been found-to 1970 up to 7 types described: A, B, C, D, E, F, G (C further subdivided into I and 2).  In 1924 the bacterium was finally given a name, clostridium botulinum.  All neurotoxins are inactivated by boiling, and only A, B, E, F have been shown to give rise to human clinical botulism.  Only type A has been a marketed drug, though type F was recently investigated and shown to be effective in patients who have grown resistant to type A; the duration of effectiveness was much shorter weeks rather than months.  Type B toxin  is currently being investigated in a multi-center study. What the toxin does in the body is to go to a junction between  nerves and muscles, and it blocks the impulses between nerves and muscles.  Normally what happens is that, when you want the arm to move or want to contract a certain muscle of the arm,  your brain sets off an electrical impulse that is conducted by a  nerve like a piece of wire right down to the junction between the nerve and the muscle. But it is not electricity that goes through  to the muscle. At the end of the nerve it releases a chemical, and that chemical goes on to tell the muscle to contract.   Botulinum toxin actually stops this process.  It prevents the  release of this chemical from the nerve endings and as a result  it gives rise to paralysis or weakness of the muscle, depending  on the dose.  The toxin attaches itself to the nerve terminals; it is something like ingested by the nerve terminal and then within the nerve cell it exerts its action to prevent the release of the substance called acetylcholine. About the history of the toxin I think full credit has to be given  to Alan Scott, who collaborated with the bacteriologist Edward  Shantz.  They worked together in the development of the toxin.   Alan Scott is an ophthalmologist in San Francisco.  He had been  always longing to develop a method to replace surgery to treat a condition called strabismus, which is a condition of crossed eyes in children.  In these children the eyes actually look in different directions, and the way to help them is to cut away one muscle  that pulls the eye to one side and therefore the eyes can be restored to look straight ahead. This procedure, he thought, might be replaced by an injection of a substance which could temporarily weaken the muscle.  As the child growsup, the condition may be self-correcting, so if they are left with a normal muscle they probably will end up better.  He had been working on that, and in 1973 in a publication we found out that this botullnum toxin A had been able to do that.  That is, the substance is quite safe.  It does not produce any generalized bad reactions.  It does not produce any local reactions, and it can also give rise to a rather predictable weakness for a period of time, ranging from several months up to eight months in the monkey.  With that he worked on to actually apply it in the human, and in 1980 he made the

… read more »

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(GGMCJP) writes: Stress and dystonia is wierd for me.  There are times when, under great stress,

that my spasms are not any worse at all; then at other times, with the same

level of stress, by spasms go bozonkers! Take care- Gina I am also that way.  There have been moments when people would of thought I’d be jerking/spasms really bad and I’m cool.  Then something else comes up and wammo. Thats the problem you just never know for sure.  And, at times I can’t recall anything in particular happening and wammo!  Where not boring, thats for sure! Anne

Response:

Hi Teresa, Do you happen to know ‘off hand’ if a person would qualify if they (me) are receiving a ‘widows pension’? Even though I’ve remarried, I still receive this income from my late husband’s place of employment.  I worked for over 20 years, but haven’ worked in the last 4 years. Just curious, but probably need to contact my local SSD office. Thanks in advance, should you have any info on this! Gina – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Mary Beth, You cannot be working at all to apply and get SSI and SSD.  However, once you get it you can get up $499.99 per month working part-time.  So whatever you do, file before you go back to work.  That is what I am going to try to do.  If I finally get it, work part time, if I can.   Teresa

Response:

MB your SSD is Social Security Disability that you will be entitled to from so many quarters you’ve worked (nothing to do with income) but, SSI, depends on income–Jimmy and I together make too much so I can’t get it. When I get 65 yrs old, My SSD will just turn into Social Security and my employer disability insurance stops completely and retirement starts.  If you aren’t sure, you might better start out part-time—-full-time is very hard if you’re in a lot of pain especially–or, you may just not have the energy to work full time.  Something to think about, though.  My MDS says that I’ll never work again, even though I already knew it. Love Ya, Tommye – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Mary Beth, I’d think that starting out part time would be a good idea. If you’re doing well, you can always increase your hours, days and workload.  It’s much more difficult to begin with full time work and then have to cut back. Also, IMO I think this might be a less stressful approach. Take care = Gina Please excuse some ‘outloud’ processing here, my friends…but does all this posting regarding how difficult working full-time can be, mean that I maybe need to reconsider my stubborn determination to return to working full-time after 8 years of ‘freedom’?  Maybe I should consider part-time?  If it were true, and I am NOT admitting to that, I can no longer maintain the stamina of working, would I be able to qualify for SSD or SSI or does one have to be without resources in order to do this? I can’t believe that I am actually writing this and sending it even…OY! MB Gene, before I quit work, it was almost too much for me, too!!  I really worked longer than I should have tried to-was in constant horrible pain, having to take pain med in order to even work and getting reprimanded for taking med at work.  I gave it up (work) at 2:30 on a Mon afternoon-I finally just broke down and knew that I couldn’t go any farther…..then, my supervisor called me that night to see how I was doing and if I thought I’d be at work the next morning. LOL  then, I told her that I wasn’t coming back that I had finally give up—that was a terrible feeling, but, yes, stress plays a major role in dystonia!!!

Response:

Mary Beth, You cannot be working at all to apply and get SSI and SSD.  However, once you get it you can get up $499.99 per month working part-time.  So whatever you do, file before you go back to work.  That is what I am going to try to do.  If I finally get it, work part time, if I can.   Teresa

Response:

Yes, Yes, Gene, we will win this war against dystonia!!!  The only way that we can and are even supposed to live is one day at a time and hope and pray for a cure—if not in our generation, then, the next one for sure!!  but, I’m looking for it to happen in our generation, aren’t you??? Love Ya, Tommye – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Gene, before I quit work, it was almost too much for me, too!!  I really worked longer than I should have tried to-was in constant horrible pain, having to take pain med in order to even work and getting reprimanded for taking med at work.  I gave it up (work) at 2:30 on a Mon afternoon-I finally just broke down and knew that I couldn’t go any farther…..then, my supervisor called me that night to see how I was doing and if I thought I’d be at work the next morning. LOL  then, I told her that I wasn’t coming back that I had finally give up—that was a terrible feeling, but, yes, stress plays a major role in dystonia!!! Love Ya, Tommye Having read  the above, it brought back so many memories. Strange how we squirrel away  bad moments!  It  seems to  over shadow all  good recollections. I was listening to a scientist philosopher type talk about the mind yesterday.  And, he made reference to the very subject.   According to him, it seems that the moment we are born, it’s downhill from there  because there are so many diseases,  and potential for accidents, etc. It’s as if all the odds were against us. But, it says something about the human spirit  doesn’t it?   People  with dystonia are survivors.  We will win this war, even though many battles have been lost, in the end, we will win.  The trick is to  never give up, there is always another day ahead, and it might just be the day that a cure is discovered. Gene http://personal.nbnet.nb.ca/ev or http://personal.nbnet.nb.ca/ev/index.html

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Hey Tommye Girl!! Did I miss something here? Gina – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – OK "Miss SuzyQ", you beat me to it this time, but have you found out yet what are "facets"??  ROFLOL  If I have any, mine must not be working, either!! LOL  couldn’t be "faucets" could it??  I’ve got many of those!! Harry and Charlie!!! (ref: Ralph and Louie) LOL Love Ya, Tommye I am going to try to beat Tommye to this one, Teresa!  What are facets? Do they fasten your ribs to the rest of you?  Do they hook your knees to your legs? I do not think I have any facets, could be my problem–LOL–Sue

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Gene, You are just a fountain of information – don’t know what we’d do without you! Thanks for all the website(s) information on just about everything. Gina Hi Dan, So sorry about the Botox B not working.  This is just so frustrating!   I’m sorry to ask this if you’ve already posted about it, but have you tried the new batch of Botox A?  I’ve been ‘botoxed’ with the old A and found it to be pretty useless for me.  But (for me) this new batch of ‘A’ is just so awesome! I hope there are others out there who have seen good results with the new A, and others yet, who will try it. Stress and dystonia is wierd for me.  There are times when, under great stress, that my spasms are not any worse at all; then at other times, with the same level of stress, by spasms go bozonkers! Take care- Gina – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi gang, It has been awhile since I posted.  No luck with Botox B for me.   Sorry to read  this, Andy.  I hadn’t heard from you  for a while and figured everything was okay.   You mentioned stress.  I  found stress  was "the great exacerbater" of muscle spasms, so much so, that I had to  stop working.   I am an accountant by profession. On a few occasions, I thought of returning back to work and,  every time, memories of what it was like at the office made me turn into a cold sweat. Dystonia  made my life  miserable, I think that at one point, at least this is what a psychologist mentioned, there was a danger of suicide.  Living this way,  in constant pain, and the pressures  at work,  was   too  much. Sorry for bringing this up, but if there are any out there who feel this way, and feel guilty about  having second thoughts regarding  their careers,  my advice to you is don’t feel this way.   Dystonia is a serious syndrome, don’t let anyone tell you differently. Regarding Phenol, I think you may find what you are looking for at: http://www.rehabnet.com/monographs/nblock.htm Regards, Gene http://personal.nbnet.nb.ca/ev or http://personal.nbnet.nb.ca/ev/index.html

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Teresa,  thanks for the information…. I swear I had never heard of such a thing but I bet mine are beauts in my neck!   Sue

Response:

Gene, before I quit work, it was almost too much for me, too!!  I really worked longer than I should have tried to-was in constant horrible pain, having to take pain med in order to even work and getting reprimanded for taking med at work.  I gave it up (work) at 2:30 on a Mon afternoon-I finally just broke down and knew that I couldn’t go any farther…..then, my supervisor called me that night to see how I was doing and if I thought I’d be at work the next morning. LOL  then, I told her that I wasn’t coming back that I had finally give up—that was a terrible feeling, but, yes, stress plays a major role in dystonia!!! Love Ya, Tommye

Having read  the above, it brought back so many memories. Strange how we squirrel away  bad moments!  It  seems to  over shadow all  good recollections. I was listening to a scientist philosopher type talk about the mind yesterday.  And, he made reference to the very subject.   According to him, it seems that the moment we are born, it’s downhill from there  because there are so many diseases,  and potential for accidents, etc. It’s as if all the odds were against us. But, it says something about the human spirit  doesn’t it?   People  with dystonia are survivors.  We will win this war, even though many battles have been lost, in the end, we will win.  The trick is to  never give up, there is always another day ahead, and it might just be the day that a cure is discovered. Gene http://personal.nbnet.nb.ca/ev or http://personal.nbnet.nb.ca/ev/index.html

Response:

Please excuse some ‘outloud’ processing here, my friends…but does all this posting regarding how difficult working full-time can be, mean that I maybe need to reconsider my stubborn determination to return to working full-time after 8 years of ‘freedom’?  Maybe I should consider part-time?  If it were true, and I am NOT admitting to that, I can no longer maintain the stamina of working, would I be able to qualify for SSD or SSI or does one have to be without resources in order to do this? I can’t believe that I am actually writing this and sending it even…OY! MB Gene, before I quit work, it was almost too much for me, too!!  I really

worked longer than I should have tried to-was in constant horrible pain,

having to take pain med in order to even work and getting reprimanded for

taking med at work.  I gave it up (work) at 2:30 on a Mon afternoon-I

finally just broke down and knew that I couldn’t go any farther…..then,

my supervisor called me that night to see how I was doing and if I thought

I’d be at work the next morning. LOL  then, I told her that I wasn’t coming

back that I had finally give up—that was a terrible feeling, but, yes,

stress plays a major role in dystonia!!!

Response:

OK "Miss SuzyQ", you beat me to it this time, but have you found out yet what are "facets"??  ROFLOL  If I have any, mine must not be working, either!! LOL  couldn’t be "faucets" could it??  I’ve got many of those!! Harry and Charlie!!! (ref: Ralph and Louie) LOL Love Ya, Tommye – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am going to try to beat Tommye to this one, Teresa!  What are facets? Do they fasten your ribs to the rest of you?  Do they hook your knees to your legs? I do not think I have any facets, could be my problem–LOL–Sue

Response:

Hi, I’m sorry that you had to quit work today.  I was diagnosed with Dystonia July 1996 and was terminated by my employer in September 1997 because I was unable to perform by duties.  The pain is so bad not to mention the embarrassment.  I wish you lots of luck.  Have you applied for disability?

Response:

Wasn’t it also a major relief to finally say "Enough"? Gina – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Gene, before I quit work, it was almost too much for me, too!!  I really worked longer than I should have tried to-was in constant horrible pain, having to take pain med in order to even work and getting reprimanded for taking med at work.  I gave it up (work) at 2:30 on a Mon afternoon-I finally just broke down and knew that I couldn’t go any farther…..then, my supervisor called me that night to see how I was doing and if I thought I’d be at work the next morning. LOL  then, I told her that I wasn’t coming back that I had finally give up—that was a terrible feeling, but, yes, stress plays a major role in dystonia!!! Love Ya, Tommye Hi gang, It has been awhile since I posted.  No luck with Botox B for me.   Sorry to read  this, Andy.  I hadn’t heard from you  for a while and figured everything was okay.   You mentioned stress.  I  found stress  was "the great exacerbater" of muscle spasms, so much so, that I had to  stop working.   I am an accountant by profession. On a few occasions, I thought of returning back to work and,  every time, memories of what it was like at the office made me turn into a cold sweat. Dystonia  made my life  miserable, I think that at one point, at least this is what a psychologist mentioned, there was a danger of suicide.  Living this way,  in constant pain, and the pressures  at work,  was   too  much. Sorry for bringing this up, but if there are any out there who feel this way, and feel guilty about  having second thoughts regarding  their careers,  my advice to you is don’t feel this way.   Dystonia is a serious syndrome, don’t let anyone tell you differently. Regarding Phenol, I think you may find what you are looking for at: http://www.rehabnet.com/monographs/nblock.htm Regards, Gene http://personal.nbnet.nb.ca/ev or http://personal.nbnet.nb.ca/ev/index.html

Response:

Yes, Gina, goma doll, it surely was!!  the next day I started paperwork for my employee disability, as my district supervisor came to my house and brought all of the paperwork, we filled everything out, and it was just final–so fast!!  then I got pay for short term disability, built up sick days and 3 weeks vacation!!  and was able to keep my hospital ins. until I’m 65 by paying it myself and they were real great….they let me keep $10,000 of $80,000 life insurance that I had.  Of course, they still have my retirement, I’m considering getting out and putting into something else because if I didn’t, Jimmy will only get half of it, if I don’t get it out!!  It was a wonderful releif to know that I wouldn’t have to sit there 8-9 hrs a day with my head down all day–at about 2:00 every afternoon, the pain was horrible from then on the rest of the day. Love Ya, Tommye – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wasn’t it also a major relief to finally say "Enough"? Gina Gene, before I quit work, it was almost too much for me, too!!  I really worked longer than I should have tried to-was in constant horrible pain, having to take pain med in order to even work and getting reprimanded for taking med at work.  I gave it up (work) at 2:30 on a Mon afternoon-I finally just broke down and knew that I couldn’t go any farther…..then, my supervisor called me that night to see how I was doing and if I thought I’d be at work the next morning. LOL  then, I told her that I wasn’t coming back that I had finally give up—that was a terrible feeling, but, yes, stress plays a major role in dystonia!!! Love Ya, Tommye Hi gang, It has been awhile since I posted.  No luck with Botox B for me.   Sorry to read  this, Andy.  I hadn’t heard from you  for a while and figured everything was okay.   You mentioned stress.  I  found stress  was "the great exacerbater" of muscle spasms, so much so, that I had to  stop working.   I am an accountant by profession. On a few occasions, I thought of returning back to work and,  every time, memories of what it was like at the office made me turn into a cold sweat. Dystonia  made my life  miserable, I think that at one point, at least this is what a psychologist mentioned, there was a danger of suicide.  Living this way,  in constant pain, and the pressures  at work,  was   too  much. Sorry for bringing this up, but if there are any out there who feel this way, and feel guilty about  having second thoughts regarding  their careers,  my advice to you is don’t feel this way.   Dystonia is a serious syndrome, don’t let anyone tell you differently. Regarding Phenol, I think you may find what you are looking for at: http://www.rehabnet.com/monographs/nblock.htm Regards, Gene http://personal.nbnet.nb.ca/ev or http://personal.nbnet.nb.ca/ev/index.html

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Well, I thought if Ralph is "right" and Louie is "left" then, Charlie would be "cold water" and Harry would be "hot water"–LOL  make any sense??? thought not, as I’m on one of my crazy "modes"!!! Love Ya, Tommye – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey Tommye Girl!! Did I miss something here? Gina OK "Miss SuzyQ", you beat me to it this time, but have you found out yet what are "facets"??  ROFLOL  If I have any, mine must not be working, either!! LOL  couldn’t be "faucets" could it??  I’ve got many of those!! Harry and Charlie!!! (ref: Ralph and Louie) LOL Love Ya, Tommye I am going to try to beat Tommye to this one, Teresa!  What are facets? Do they fasten your ribs to the rest of you?  Do they hook your knees to your legs? I do not think I have any facets, could be my problem–LOL–Sue

Response:

Mary Beth, I’d think that starting out part time would be a good idea. If you’re doing well, you can always increase your hours, days and workload.  It’s much more difficult to begin with full time work and then have to cut back. Also, IMO I think this might be a less stressful approach. Take care = Gina – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Please excuse some ‘outloud’ processing here, my friends…but does all this posting regarding how difficult working full-time can be, mean that I maybe need to reconsider my stubborn determination to return to working full-time after 8 years of ‘freedom’?  Maybe I should consider part-time?  If it were true, and I am NOT admitting to that, I can no longer maintain the stamina of working, would I be able to qualify for SSD or SSI or does one have to be without resources in order to do this? I can’t believe that I am actually writing this and sending it even…OY! MB Gene, before I quit work, it was almost too much for me, too!!  I really worked longer than I should have tried to-was in constant horrible pain, having to take pain med in order to even work and getting reprimanded for taking med at work.  I gave it up (work) at 2:30 on a Mon afternoon-I finally just broke down and knew that I couldn’t go any farther…..then, my supervisor called me that night to see how I was doing and if I thought I’d be at work the next morning. LOL  then, I told her that I wasn’t coming back that I had finally give up—that was a terrible feeling, but, yes, stress plays a major role in dystonia!!!

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Article: 8240 of alt.support.dystonia Path: betanews.compulink.co.uk!news.cix.co.uk!not-for-mail Newsgroups: alt.support.dystonia Organization: CIX – Compulink Information eXchange Lines: 5 NNTP-Posting-Host: oare.compulink.co.uk Xref: betanews.compulink.co.uk alt.support.dystonia:8240 Just re-joined this conference after a break. My son has been told that he will be part of a trial of Botox B in the UK, having become immune to Botox A. What is the current opinion about the effectiveness of Botox B? Barry

Anyone suggest where I should look to find more about Botox B please? Barry

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Just re-joined this conference after a break. My son has been told that he will be part of a trial of Botox B in the UK, having become immune to Botox A. What is the current opinion about the effectiveness of Botox B? Barry

Response:

I had Bot B injx last month.  I, too,  was more sore than with Botox A.  I think there is a lot more of the Bot B solution that has to be injected so this may explain part of it.   Also, seems like they missed a muscle and hit my salivary gland, as I’ve had almost no saliva since the toxin kicked in.  They called it a "side effect". Oh, well.   Given this torture, its still worth it so far. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I wrote a message about Myobloc, but maybe its the wrong name.  I just got the new Botox injections.  I am really sore and having strange feelings. Wondered how anyone else felt. I have read many posts of people trying the Myobloc and none of them seems satisfied with it yet.  Can’t help but wonder if the doctors should have experimented a little more with it.  Hope you soon start to feel better. Good luck,  Anna

Response:

I have had the same problem after injections in my neck ,side effects of Botox …during about one week and it was finished . Eat and drink in the same time , not very polite ,but we have to survive ! marie:) LaBeeJay a

Question:

You may wish to refer to an article by Dr. Paul Wenders group at U. Utah:: Reimarr, F et al ,An open trial of L-Tyrosine in the Treatment of Attention Deficit Disorder, Residual Type. AMERICAN JOURNAL OF PSYCHIATRY, 144:8 August 1987, pp 1071-3 This study used doses of 50-150mg/kg in adults with ADD.  Eight of twelve patients had a "marked to moderate" response after 2 weeks, but all developed tolerance at 6 weeks.   In re the comments about tyrosine not effecting CNS levels of dopamine and norepinephrine (as compared to tryptophane — serotonin) I doubt that its that simple.   Why would tyrosine/phenylanaine supplementation have a positive effec in some cases of depression? You may wish to look up some writings by Dr. Richard Wurtman that will correlate amino acid loading with increase in central neurotransmitters. Are you also taking supplements of B vitamine (B6) that will aid the production of dopamine? In closing, you may find as I have that tyrosine used concurrently with a stimulant will have even better results than either alone.  Good luck Bob

Response:

You may wish to refer to an article by Dr. Paul Wenders group at U. Utah:: Reimarr, F et al ,An open trial of L-Tyrosine in the Treatment of Attention Deficit Disorder, Residual Type. AMERICAN JOURNAL OF PSYCHIATRY, 144:8 August 1987, pp 1071-3 This study used doses of 50-150mg/kg in adults with ADD.  Eight of twelve patients had a "marked to moderate" response after 2 weeks, but all developed tolerance at 6 weeks.   In re the comments about tyrosine not effecting CNS levels of dopamine and norepinephrine (as compared to tryptophane — serotonin) I doubt that its that simple.   Why would tyrosine/phenylanaine supplementation have a positive effec in some cases of depression? You may wish to look up some writings by Dr. Richard Wurtman that will correlate amino acid loading with increase in central neurotransmitters.

Just to let you know where I’m coming from, for what it’s worth, here’s a quote from "The Molecular Foundations of Psychiatry" by S.E.Hyman & E.J. Nestler, pg 71:         Tyrosine hydroxylase is the rate limiting enzyme of catecholamine         [i.e. dopamine and norepinephrine] synthesis…Because tyrosine         hydroxylase exists at relatively low levels, and *under normal         conditions* is already supersaturated by the amount of tyrosine         found in the brain, it is very difficult to influence brain         catecholamine synthesis through variations in dietary tyrosine. Notice the qualification "under normal conditions".  There could be exceptions, for example, in persons with abnormal brain chemistry. Stanley – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Are you also taking supplements of B vitamine (B6) that will aid the production of dopamine? In closing, you may find as I have that tyrosine used concurrently with a stimulant will have even better results than either alone.  Good luck Bob

Response:

Which is the reason that L-Dopa is used to treat Parkinson’s disease rather than tyrosine.  I beleive that too many people expect too great of results from substances such as amino acids  Similarly too many in the medical/scientific community are just as fast to write off any real effect.   To simply state that tyrosine hydroxylase is the rate limiting factor may be a simplification.  (Does this consider variations depending on time of day?)   The Wender writing stated that a period of two weeks passed before an effect was noticed, which he compared to the delayed response found in most antidepressant drugs.  (Similarly he found no usefulness beyond 6 weeks, tolerance?) To my understanding, tricyclic antidepressants cause an immediate blockage of reuptake and consequential increase in synaptic transmitter levels but clinical response is delayed 2-6 weeks.  Why?  This suggests actions beyond the immediate cast of players, be it amino acids, enzymes, neurotransmitters and/or drugs, on an IMMEDIATE basis. I hope to respond to you giving a few other citations later. I invite your comments on a relate issue, ie, the differing actions of d-amphetamine and methylphenidate.  As a person with ADD, I had extreme problems (anxiety, dysphoria) with larger doses of Ritalin(40-60mg/dose), which my doctor simply excused to my greater awareness to the world.  I have no such problems with ROUGHLY equivalent doses of Dexedrine(15mg).  I have read that these two drugs act on different dopamine pools in the brain, and that methylphenidate actually inhibits the actions of amphetamine.(Research I beleive done by a researcher at Duke, McEwen or similar name reported in TIPS mid 80s)  Similarly methylphenidate seems to provoke epileptic activity, where amphetamine tends to inhibit it (Dexedrine is marketed as an anticonvulsant in Canada, I doubt this is only for its anti-drowsiness effects re phenobarbital) As a child I experienced nocturnal epilepsy but I have read nothing clinically about the selection of antiADD drugs in epileptics for example.  What is the current thinking (theoretically as well as clinically) regarding this diffenence between the actions of thes amphetamine like drugs and the methylphenidate like drugs?. Regards Bob

Response:

Tyrosine is a great way to prevent depletion of neurotransmitters as a result of psychostimulant therapy. Phenylalanine competes with tryptophan for entry to the brain and should not even be considered – it made me angry as all hell!! All by itself its probably nowhere near as effective, because the body is good at keeping levels where it thinks they should be. L-Dopa effectively bypasses this mechanism – anyone got any data on it? L-Dopa can [according to a friend] be made by feeding potatoes lots of tyrosine, then eating them [he didnt say whether they were cooked or not] — Its always the same / Im the only one who’s always left to blame / Take what you can take / Hurt is your only idea of a game / To break away / I dont have that within me / And I’m not afraid / So I bite the hand that feeds me… / When all you do is break me / And put me in a cage     Front 242, Animal.

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Someone posted a message recently about Tyrosine conflicting with antidepressants. Anyone have any details?

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: I really hate these kinds of replies. : Why do you bother doing this without getting the facts?  Gosh.. You’ve : succeeded in making me angry. : I have probably been diagnosed with ADD more times than you have, Ed. : about 3 or 4.  from neurologists and psychiatrists.  I have tried every : drug known from stimulants to wellbutrin. : lay off, and find out the facts before you waste your time talking without : knowing. : If you don know, ASK.  don’t suggest things that have already been done IN : EXCESS! : Now, if someone could INTELLECTUALLY respond to my message,  I would : appreciate it.   : I appologize to all reading this, it just makes me upset to have someone : respond to me like this. Jason, you _asked_ for opinions; and that’s what you got.  Don’t complain that somebody offered you the best advice that anybody could in response to your description of experimenting with self-treatment for ADD "symptoms". I’ve tried Ritalin, switched to Dexedrine, went back to Ritalin, added Effexor along with Ritalin, and still some of my symptoms persist. However, all through this process (a little over 2 years now) I’ve been seeing a therapist (psychologist) on a regular basis, as well at the less frequent appointments with neurologist, neuropsychologist, and psychiatrist. Oh, can’t forget my general practicioner MD, either. For many people, drugs are not enough–some type of therapy or counselling can help them take control over their life.  For some of us it’s the first time ever we’ve felt even close to being in the driver’s seat, and it can be a frightening/frustrating experience–not knowing what we’re supposed to do first, or do next, or do after that, or… Final note: regarding self-prescribed vitamin, mineral, amino acid, "natural" supplements, a biochemical/medical researcher (PhD+) advised me, "I recommend against it; when you start messing with chemical balance in your brain you can really screw things up."   _I’d_ recommend taking Ed’s advice: seek professional help and stick with it. (I apologize if the tone of this post started getting hot, but what you’re  doing _is_ playing with fire.  Be really careful!)       "Well, heck. It sounded like a _really_good_idea_, at the time."

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I really hate these kinds of replies. Why do you bother doing this without getting the facts?  Gosh.. You’ve succeeded in making me angry. I have probably been diagnosed with ADD more times than you have, Ed. about 3 or 4.  from neurologists and psychiatrists.  I have tried every drug known from stimulants to wellbutrin. lay off, and find out the facts before you waste your time talking without knowing. If you don know, ASK.  don’t suggest things that have already been done IN EXCESS! Now, if someone could INTELLECTUALLY respond to my message,  I would appreciate it.   I appologize to all reading this, it just makes me upset to have someone respond to me like this. Jason —- The fear of the unknown is a response to the excesses of the imagination.

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