Question:

I am a 23 year old Belgian girl, suffering already 5 years from IBS. The last year has been very bad for me. My biggest problem is the frequent diarrhea ( Imodium, Imodium, Imodium, ..). But also the fear of having an attack is always there.It’s so bad right now that I barely come out of the house anymore. If I really have to go out, I am feeling very, very sick ( diarrhea and nausea ). I had to quit my study, I couldn’t cope with the exams and the stress. I can’t work. Nobody believes that. Even the doctors say there is nothing fysical wrong with me. But I feel so damn sick every second of every day ! I have no friends anymore. That’s not really a surprise. I can’t enjoy myself, I don’t want to eat in public. I even don’t eat at home if I am not alone. For me: eating is being sick. I barely eat anything. Isn’t there a good medication that helps for IBS and especially for nervous diarrhea ?  The doctors say that it doesn’t exist and that I just have to learn to live with it. I take Xanax for the anxiety ( it doesn’t work). I’ve already tried two antidepressants: Cipramil and Paxil, but they made me so ill I had to stop taking it. On bad days I am taking Duspatal, Spasmomen or Dicetel. But neither of them works for me. And of course ther is also my dear friend Imodium. It can’t go on like this. I don’t call this a life anymore, it’s hell. But what more can I try??? P.S.  I’ve also had those terrible medical tests in hospital. Nothing special was found. I have had IBS since age 16 when it wad first diagnosed. Sometimes I find that  the stress of worrying that an attack will come, in and of itself brings it  on! Its a lose-lose situation. Lately I have found that meditation helps me a lot. Also the exercises I  learned years ago in Lamaze class. DEEP breathing through the nose, hold it  for a bit, then exhale through the mouth, helps at least while in the midst of  an attack. BTW here in the USA we have generic brands of Imodium which I stock  up on (since its cheaper and I use so much of it!) Maybe those of us with IBS  need to buy stock in the company <sigh

.

I wish there were more I could tell you to do! Avoiding greasy foods helps too,  since for me, those + stress= IBS! Annette Note: To prevent spam, this address does not accept e-mail. To send me e-mail,  write to me at A76898…@rocketmail.com

Response:

I am a 23 year old Belgian girl, suffering already 5 years from IBS. The last year has been very bad for me. My biggest problem is the frequent diarrhea ( Imodium, Imodium, Imodium, ..). But also the fear of having an attack is always there.It’s so bad right now that I barely come out of the house anymore. If I really have to go out, I am feeling very, very sick ( diarrhea and nausea ). I had to quit my study, I couldn’t cope with the exams and the stress. I can’t work. Nobody believes that. Even the doctors say there is nothing fysical wrong with me. But I feel so damn sick every second of every day ! I have no friends anymore. That’s not really a surprise. I can’t enjoy myself, I don’t want to eat in public. I even don’t eat at home if I am not alone. For me: eating is being sick. I barely eat anything. Isn’t there a good medication that helps for IBS and especially for nervous diarrhea ?  The doctors say that it doesn’t exist and that I just have to learn to live with it. I take Xanax for the anxiety ( it doesn’t work). I’ve already tried two antidepressants: Cipramil and Paxil, but they made me so ill I had to stop taking it. On bad days I am taking Duspatal, Spasmomen or Dicetel. But neither of them works for me. And of course ther is also my dear friend Imodium. It can’t go on like this. I don’t call this a life anymore, it’s hell. But what more can I try??? P.S.  I’ve also had those terrible medical tests in hospital. Nothing special was found.

Response:

Your story is very much like mine!!…Please read "My Story" on my web site. On 28 Sep 1997 20:35:52 GMT, "kathia" <buyens.kat…@medisoft.be

wrote:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

I am a 23 year old Belgian girl, suffering already 5 years from IBS. The last year has been very bad for me. My biggest problem is the frequent diarrhea ( Imodium, Imodium, Imodium, ..). But also the fear of having an attack is always there.It’s so bad right now that I barely come out of the house anymore. If I really have to go out, I am feeling very, very sick ( diarrhea and nausea ). I had to quit my study, I couldn’t cope with the exams and the stress. I can’t work. Nobody believes that. Even the doctors say there is nothing fysical wrong with me. But I feel so damn sick every second of every day ! I have no friends anymore. That’s not really a surprise. I can’t enjoy myself, I don’t want to eat in public. I even don’t eat at home if I am not alone. For me: eating is being sick. I barely eat anything. Isn’t there a good medication that helps for IBS and especially for nervous diarrhea ?  The doctors say that it doesn’t exist and that I just have to learn to live with it. I take Xanax for the anxiety ( it doesn’t work). I’ve already tried two antidepressants: Cipramil and Paxil, but they made me so ill I had to stop taking it. On bad days I am taking Duspatal, Spasmomen or Dicetel. But neither of them works for me. And of course ther is also my dear friend Imodium. It can’t go on like this. I don’t call this a life anymore, it’s hell. But what more can I try??? P.S.  I’ve also had those terrible medical tests in hospital. Nothing special was found.

Steven S. Palmer <sput…@gte.net

http://home1.gte.net/sputers/index.html http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Spa/4001/ ——————————————- Key ID 0×69D430FB Key fingerprint = A706 43EC 13B6 D8E4 9F19  F2D4 63A8 E71D 69D4 30FB Public Key located in the Public Key Directory at:               <http://www.pgp.com/

or e-mail with Public Key as the subject line – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - "I’m sick and tired of having to rearrange my life     because of what the STUPIDEST people *might* do or     how they *might* react."        – Bill Maher

Response:

On 28 Sep 1997 20:35:52 GMT, "kathia" <buyens.kat…@medisoft.be

wrote: I had to quit my study, I couldn’t cope with the exams and the stress.

You will see below that stress is the third most common diagnosis before a celiac diagnosis. I suggest a strict trial gluten-free diet. Top 20 Diagnoses Before a Diagnosis of Celiac Disease 1.  Anemia 2.  IBS 3.  Psychological stress, nerves, imagination 4.  Diarrhea 5.  IBD 6.  Diabetes 7.  Spastic Colon 8.  Ulcers 9.  Virus (Viral Gastroenteritis) 10. Chronic Fatigue Syndrome 11. Weight-loss 12. Allergies 13. Amoeba, Parasites, Infection 14. Gallbladder Disease 15. Thyroid Disease 16. Cancer, Lymphoma, Digestive 17. Colitis 18. Cystic Fibrosis 19. Lactose Intolerance 20. Reflux Data from an on-going Celiac Disease Foundation study of 600 Biopsy-proven celiacs. Taken from the Fall 1996 CDF Newsletter. CDF can be reached at:  Celiac Disease Foundation  13251 Ventura Blvd. Suite 1  Studio City, CA  91604-1838  818-990-2354. Newsletter subscriptions are sent to members, and membership is a $35 tax-deductible contribution per year. For more information on gluten intolerance see this page of annotated links:   The Gluten-Free Page:  http://www.panix.com/~donwiss/ Don.

Response:

Question:

Haldol makes me sane when I’m not. Hey Sally. Bob suggested Haldol as well, though I’m wary of it, since it’s such an old drug, and has some severe side effects, from what I hear. Have you had any problems with it? Ian — http://sundry.ws/

Hey Ian, Every once in awhile, I will get TD (tardive dyskenesia) but I also have a prescription for Cogentin that I take when that happens, and it is okay.  Haldol’s the only anti psychotic that I have been on that has helped me – the newer ones don’t, and Seroquel nearly killed me.  I find Haldol to be the right medicine for me, but YMMV. Sally — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Haldol’s the only anti psychotic that I have been on that has helped me – the newer ones don’t, and Seroquel nearly killed me.  I find Haldol to be the right medicine for me, but YMMV.

Hey Sally. Seroquel nearly killed me as well. My pdoc would not listen. I really, truly believe he has read the Marquis de Sade, as he seemed to be a real sadist. I mean, he seemed to enjoy the fact that I was suffering under his care. That Seroquel would give me terrifying body rushes every time I went to sleep. I thought I was gonna die every night. The Abilify isn’t getting rid of the racing thoughts, or helping with the concentration, so I’ll mention to my new pdoc the Haldol, next time I see him. I guess Cogentin isn’t too bad, although with my history, I wonder if they would give me something like that. Thanks for the suggestion, Sally, and BTW, I keep meaning to respond to your very thoughtful email, but I’m too overwhelmed right now to put enough thought into it. Hope you’re well, Ian — http://sundry.ws/ — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Haldol’s the only anti psychotic that I have been on that has helped me – the newer ones don’t, and Seroquel nearly killed me.  I find Haldol to be the right medicine for me, but YMMV. Hey Sally. Seroquel nearly killed me as well. My pdoc would not listen. I really, truly believe he has read the Marquis de Sade, as he seemed to be a real sadist. I mean, he seemed to enjoy the fact that I was suffering under his care. That Seroquel would give me terrifying body rushes every time I went to sleep. I thought I was gonna die every night. The Abilify isn’t getting rid of the racing thoughts, or helping with the concentration, so I’ll mention to my new pdoc the Haldol, next time I see him. I guess Cogentin isn’t too bad, although with my history, I wonder if they would give me something like that. Thanks for the suggestion, Sally, and BTW, I keep meaning to respond to your very thoughtful email, but I’m too overwhelmed right now to put enough thought into it. Hope you’re well, Ian — http://sundry.ws/

Ian, I have had a couple of pdocs that gave me Haldol, but didn’t like to do it.  They wanted me on a new anti psychotic, but I’ve tried them, and they just don’t work for me.  Haldol, however, does.  Right now I have a great pdoc, whose attitude is "if the medication you are taking is working, let’s keep it like that."  He’s not a benzophobe either, last RX he gave me for Xanax had FIVE refills on it. As to the cogentin, I take that on an "as needed" basis.  I have a bottle of it that is about 8 months old, I have a lot left.  If you get a day of TD you will know it, because your facial muscles do things you don’t want them to do. Not fun, but it’s manageable with Cogentin.  It’s more annoying than anything else. Don’t worry about answering emails.  You write when you want to, I’m here whenever, and my feelings don’t get hurt if I don’t get an answer  Whenever you need to, my inbox is open to you. (and everyone else, for that matter) Sally — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

 How long have you been getting medical help for the anxiety?  It took years for me to get somewhat settled, and I’m always looking for more help. Ah, well, the anxiety is considered just part of the general diagnosis of schizoaffective. My previous pdoc told me to get used to it. My current one is a bit nicer. He gives me Klonopin and tells me to get used to life on that. Didn’t mean to send such a weird post. I talked to Bob A. for a while, and I agreed to take only three of them, as opposed to a bunch. Listening to a very nice Cure mix right now … this is one of the benefits of depression, that the Cure sounds really good.

im sadder these days for many reasons, $$$ would surely ease a lot of the anxiety and dep. darn it, this thing, hoovering over me… ugg… going on 14 years… xanax and zoloft.. klonopin was good to me but no money for doctors.. ohh, boysss don’t.. cryyyy love the cure.. — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

love the cure..

Yes, they’re great. I used to have the Bob Smith hairdo in high school, back in ‘89, when Disintegration came out. I was all the rage. Not being able to afford a doctor sucks. Can’t you get some help from a free clinic? Around here, I get to see a free pdoc and a free MD, though I suppose it’s not really free, as I’m on disability, and get Medicare and Medicaid. But I think places like that treat you even if you’re broke. I mean, that’s the idea, anyway, that human beings should all get treatment when they need it. It’s like, a human right, or something. Ian — I’m sick of following my dreams. I’m just gonna ask where they’re goin’, and hook up with ‘em later. (Mitch Hedburg) http://sundry.ws/ — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – When I was young I thought I would become famous. At some point, I realized it would be a good idea just to be safe. Now I’m trying to reverse what lies ahead, but have realized tonight that it can’t be reversed. These moments of clarity come to me every once in a while  … this illness is just getting a head of steam on it. Right now the only thing keeping me alive is the fact that I’m still too afraid of the actual act of suicide. I would sure fall off the wagon, though, if I had any money. Perhaps this is a good time to declare a moratorium on going outside. Many of us here have done this, I assume. My friend Bob and I (and many of you know Bob) are forming a software company based on our shared qualities of obsessiveness and reclusiveness. We figure that’s the edge we’ll have over the competition. So maybe this will be a good thing. Who knows. But I seem to be incompatible with society in general, and am feeling like I would rather die than go through this night, unless this night were accompanied by large amounts of Klonopin, which will soon follow. Hope yiz understand. I’m not a danger to myself, just realizing what lies ahead. There really isn’t anywhere else I can go to say this. Ian

Hi Ian, I just want to tell you I hope you hang in there. You are beautifully talented — that is apparent in your website. I also know that being talented isn’t easy — there’s a certain amount of pressure to use it as a means to ’success’, whatever that is. I don’t have a lot of great wisdom to impart here. Just know I’m hoping the best for you. I think you have a great spirit. Deirdre — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

that’s part of why I get suicidal. because of constant emotional pain

I hear you. Other people have to go through phases of pain, and don’t understand what it means to have it in their lives constantly. Then they get smug about their success. <sigh Hope you’re well, and living in the moment, Ian — http://sundry.ws/ — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Just know I’m hoping the best for you. I think you have a great spirit.

Thanks, Deirdre. I don’t know how to respond, but what you said means a lot to me. Ian — http://sundry.ws/ — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

<gently snipped ::Perhaps this is a good time to declare a moratorium on going ::outside. Many of us here have done this, I assume. Dear Ian, I read in another post that you are doing better today. I`m so glad to hear that. Bad times never last forever. We seem to forget that when we are in and decided to stay inside. Those four walls get old really quickly. Anyways, my panic and anxiety followed me there too I truly empathize with how you are feeling. There are those days where you just throw your hands up and say I can`t do this anymore. But you wake up the next day and it is a little better and you decide to try again. (((((Ian))))) Jackie ~*~My greatest fear is there is no such thing as PMS and this is really my personality~*~ — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Don’t give up Ian, when my anxiety was really bad being housebound was somewhere I didn’t want to be. Personally, I don’t think it’s a good idea to encourage you to become housebound in any way. If it’s hard to go outside (does it cause you more anxiety?) you should still try. If you stop going outside, it will be that much harder to go outside when you have to. At least that’s the way I see it. Are you taking any meds or therapy for your schizo-affective disorder?

When my anxiety was very bad at the beginning of my recovery from "meltdown", I made as many trips as I could to my local computer store where I discussed with the proprietor possible specifications for a new computer for him to build for me. The distance was far enough to be exercise and short enough to not be excessively tiring. Make up excuses to go outside. You don’t have to stay there long but make it a point to make it past the front door. If you can set up a chair outside you can take a book or magazine with you to peruse or maybe listen to some music. Gains are made in short steps. — Ron P I’m an EXPERT….a has-been under pressure<;-) — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

If you stop going outside, it will be that much harder to go outside when you have to. Hi Doug. Last night was just a real night of despair. I think today is a bit better, and thank you for the kind words. Going outside … well, I have to for certain things, but man is it hard to deal with "normal" people. We should do things where we feel better afterward, and dealing with society always leaves me feeling desperate. It’s better on the Internet, for whatever reason.

Dealings on the Internet are for the most part non-personal and remote which are the total opposite of face to face encounters. — Ron P I’m an EXPERT….a has-been under pressure<;-) — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Ian, I’ve read a number of things you posted, and you have a lot of capacity to do a lot, and to experience a lot of meaning, even if that’s not happening in your life right now.  Things change, and they sometimes do serendipitously change for the better.  - Gary

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – that’s part of why I get suicidal. because of constant emotional pain I hear you. Other people have to go through phases of pain, and don’t understand what it means to have it in their lives constantly. Then they get smug about their success. <sigh Hope you’re well, and living in the moment, Ian — http://sundry.ws/ — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

How long have you been getting medical help for the anxiety?  It took years for me to get somewhat settled, and I’m always looking for more help. Ah, well, the anxiety is considered just part of the general diagnosis of schizoaffective.

There seems to be a fast growing number of people here that are schizoaffective, If I hadn’t told you before, I’m on the list.  My previous pdoc told me to get used to it. My current one is a bit nicer. He gives me Klonopin and tells me to get used to life on that.

That’s odd?  Most people that are schizoaffective are on antipsychotics?   I’m on 400mg of Seroquel.  All the benzos in the world didn’t stop my schizo symptoms.  Now I’d guess the Seroquel knocked out about 75% of it. Didn’t mean to send such a weird post. I talked to Bob A. for a while, and I agreed to take only three of them, as opposed to a bunch. Listening to a very nice Cure mix right now … this is one of the benefits of depression, that the Cure sounds really good.

For the life of me I can’t remember any of their music.  I know I heard it, I guess in the early 80’s? Hope you’re doin’ well, Tony, Ian

Thanks Ian, hoping the same for you. Tony — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How long have you been getting medical help for the anxiety?  It took years for me to get somewhat settled, and I’m always looking for more help. Ah, well, the anxiety is considered just part of the general diagnosis of schizoaffective. There seems to be a fast growing number of people here that are schizoaffective, If I hadn’t told you before, I’m on the list.  My previous pdoc told me to get used to it. My current one is a bit nicer. He gives me Klonopin and tells me to get used to life on that. That’s odd?  Most people that are schizoaffective are on antipsychotics?   I’m on 400mg of Seroquel.  All the benzos in the world didn’t stop my schizo symptoms.  Now I’d guess the Seroquel knocked out about 75% of it. Didn’t mean to send such a weird post. I talked to Bob A. for a while, and I agreed to take only three of them, as opposed to a bunch. Listening to a very nice Cure mix right now … this is one of the benefits of depression, that the Cure sounds really good. For the life of me I can’t remember any of their music.  I know I heard it, I guess in the early 80’s? Hope you’re doin’ well, Tony, Ian Thanks Ian, hoping the same for you. Tony

Add me to the list of the schizoaffective group.. or I’m schizo something.  No two doctors can agree on what I am. I think I’m schizophrenic, actually.  Mildly so.  But I agree with Tono.  An antipsychotic is pretty vital if you’re schizoaffective.  I take Haldol.  I’ve tried all the "newer" ones, and they don’t do anything good to me, and most of them do something bad to me.  Haldol makes me sane when I’m not.   Sally — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Haldol makes me sane when I’m not.  

Hey Sally. Bob suggested Haldol as well, though I’m wary of it, since it’s such an old drug, and has some severe side effects, from what I hear. Have you had any problems with it? Ian — http://sundry.ws/ — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Dear Ian, In the past.. have you been particularly good at foretelling the future?  Have you always seen events coming and knew they were going to happen.. or in the past, have you been surprised by things that happened to you in your life? I wish I could comfort you, you need a hug and reassurance.  Email me anytime, you can ask Bob if I’m worthy of trust.  Fear is one terrible emotion, and I’m not saying I can guantee you will never feel it, because it’s a human emotion.. but I can share with you some things that I went through.  I was certain a year ago that my destiny was to end up on the streets.. Led me to a horrible drinking binge I liked to never came out of.  I learned  not just how to quit drinking.. I learned how to face life.. most all of it and not live in fear.  And I’m glad you are afraid of suicide and I’m glad you are too poor to drink.  So looks like you need to learn how to cope.  That’s what it looks like to me.  If you need to talk, email me anytime.  You would be surprised, Ian.  What we are capable of living through.  I know I am. And that cliche everyone says.. about what doesn’t kill you makes you stronger?  That’s not a cliche. It’s the truth.  Ask Bob if I know what I’m talking about in that regard. I’m not an expert, but I came out of where you seem to be awhile back. Please take good care.. we care for you. Sally – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – When I was young I thought I would become famous. At some point, I realized it would be a good idea just to be safe. Now I’m trying to reverse what lies ahead, but have realized tonight that it can’t be reversed. These moments of clarity come to me every once in a while  … this illness is just getting a head of steam on it. Right now the only thing keeping me alive is the fact that I’m still too afraid of the actual act of suicide. I would sure fall off the wagon, though, if I had any money. Perhaps this is a good time to declare a moratorium on going outside. Many of us here have done this, I assume. My friend Bob and I (and many of you know Bob) are forming a software company based on our shared qualities of obsessiveness and reclusiveness. We figure that’s the edge we’ll have over the competition. So maybe this will be a good thing. Who knows. But I seem to be incompatible with society in general, and am feeling like I would rather die than go through this night, unless this night were accompanied by large amounts of Klonopin, which will soon follow. Hope yiz understand. I’m not a danger to myself, just realizing what lies ahead. There really isn’t anywhere else I can go to say this. Ian — http://sundry.ws/ — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Don’t give up Ian, when my anxiety was really bad being housebound was somewhere I didn’t want to be. Personally, I don’t think it’s a good idea to encourage you to become housebound in any way. If it’s hard to go outside (does it cause you more anxiety?) you should still try. If you stop going outside, it will be that much harder to go outside when you have to. At least that’s the way I see it. Are you taking any meds or therapy for your schizo-affective disorder? — Doug

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Perhaps this is a good time to declare a moratorium on going outside. Many of us here have done this, I assume. My friend Bob and I (and many of you know Bob) are forming a software company based on our shared qualities of obsessiveness and reclusiveness. We figure that’s the edge we’ll have over the competition. So maybe this will be a good thing. Who knows. But I seem to be incompatible with society in general, and am feeling like I would rather die than go through this night, unless this night were accompanied by large amounts of Klonopin, which will soon follow. Hope yiz understand. I’m not a danger to myself, just realizing what lies ahead. There really isn’t anywhere else I can go to say this. Ian — http://sundry.ws/ — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hope yiz understand. I’m not a danger to myself, just realizing what lies ahead. There really isn’t anywhere else I can go to say this. Ian

Good luck with the company. Wish I had the skills, my ability to go outside is limited by my illness and its not particularly fun, I miss it a great deal and want to get back to that. I’ve other things that help me stay alive, I’m not particularly afraid of death, a tiny bit afraid of pain, but that’s part of why I get suicidal. because of constant emotional pain. But, I’ve got too much to do and live for at the moment. Just hope I can keep remembering that. — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

If you stop going outside, it will be that much harder to go outside when you have to.

Hi Doug. Last night was just a real night of despair. I think today is a bit better, and thank you for the kind words. Going outside … well, I have to for certain things, but man is it hard to deal with "normal" people. We should do things where we feel better afterward, and dealing with society always leaves me feeling desperate. It’s better on the Internet, for whatever reason. Ian — http://sundry.ws/ — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

When I was young I thought I would become famous. At some point, I realized it would be a good idea just to be safe. Now I’m trying to reverse what lies ahead, but have realized tonight that it can’t be reversed. These moments of clarity come to me every once in a while  … this illness is just getting a head of steam on it. Right now the only thing keeping me alive is the fact that I’m still too afraid of the actual act of suicide. I would sure fall off the wagon, though, if I had any money. Perhaps this is a good time to declare a moratorium on going outside. Many of us here have done this, I assume. My friend Bob and I (and many of you know Bob) are forming a software company based on our shared qualities of obsessiveness and reclusiveness. We figure that’s the edge we’ll have over the competition. So maybe this will be a good thing. Who knows. But I seem to be incompatible with society in general, and am feeling like I would rather die than go through this night, unless this night were accompanied by large amounts of Klonopin, which will soon follow. Hope yiz understand. I’m not a danger to myself, just realizing what lies ahead. There really isn’t anywhere else I can go to say this. Ian — http://sundry.ws/ — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – When I was young I thought I would become famous. At some point, I realized it would be a good idea just to be safe. Now I’m trying to reverse what lies ahead, but have realized tonight that it can’t be reversed. These moments of clarity come to me every once in a while  … this illness is just getting a head of steam on it. Right now the only thing keeping me alive is the fact that I’m still too afraid of the actual act of suicide. I would sure fall off the wagon, though, if I had any money. Perhaps this is a good time to declare a moratorium on going outside. Many of us here have done this, I assume. My friend Bob and I (and many of you know Bob) are forming a software company based on our shared qualities of obsessiveness and reclusiveness. We figure that’s the edge we’ll have over the competition. So maybe this will be a good thing. Who knows. But I seem to be incompatible with society in general, and am feeling like I would rather die than go through this night, unless this night were accompanied by large amounts of Klonopin, which will soon follow. Hope yiz understand. I’m not a danger to myself, just realizing what lies ahead. There really isn’t anywhere else I can go to say this.

How long have you been getting medical help for the anxiety?  It took years for me to get somewhat settled, and I’m always looking for more help. Tono — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

How long have you been getting medical help for the anxiety?  It took years for me to get somewhat settled, and I’m always looking for more help.

Ah, well, the anxiety is considered just part of the general diagnosis of schizoaffective. My previous pdoc told me to get used to it. My current one is a bit nicer. He gives me Klonopin and tells me to get used to life on that. Didn’t mean to send such a weird post. I talked to Bob A. for a while, and I agreed to take only three of them, as opposed to a bunch. Listening to a very nice Cure mix right now … this is one of the benefits of depression, that the Cure sounds really good. Hope you’re doin’ well, Tony, Ian — http://sundry.ws/ — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Question:

Actually, the story is a bit more complicated. He was supposed to start on 10 mg, go to 20 mg (10×2) in a week, then 30 (10×3). The pharmacy goofed and put 18s in the bottle, so he started on 18. He experienced almost immediate positive affects, in terms of behavior in school. But he also was having drowsy spells and stomach aches, and sometimes just seems drugged up – he falls asleep in the car for the first time since he was an infant. Fortunately, we noticed the error before it was time for him to take two, and immediately cut him back to 10. Which brings us to our present circumstances – side effects with 18, insufficient effects with 10. During his time with me this summer, I have chosen to give him 10 – he has more chance for physical exercise, and less requirement to be still and attentive. But I’m more interested in determining a good long-term solution for him, and none has been forthcoming from his physicial or Lilly.

You need to give the drug time, a few weeks, before you will know what staying side effects will be. Drowsiness and stomach aches are common on reuptake inhibitors and often go away with time. You have raised another issue as regards the four hour half life. His physician’s solution to the side-effects was to suggest he take the medication in the evening. I was concerned that he was still being overmedicated, but just sleeping through the symptoms. But I am now further concerned that by giving him the medication in the evening, most of the effect is wasted, thus requiring a higher dosage to maintain the effect. Also, his physician said that it builds up in the blood, but this is also apparently wrong. More info on half-life and other issues at: http://www.mosbysdrugconsult.com/DrugConsult/003578.html

Taking it at night to avoid drowsiness during the day is a good idea and often helps reduce drowsiness – not always, but sometimes. Taking it at night will make no difference to its positive effects. With reuptake inhibitors, the blood half life has little to do with the positive effect. However, it may have a lot to do with side effects. These are nothing like stimulants where you only have an effect while it is in your blood. Reuptake inhibitors can take weeks before the drugs start having the effect you want, and after you quit can take a long time to stop "working" also. Just follow your doctors orders and stop panicking.

Response:

The pharmacy goofed and put 18s in the bottle, so he started on 18. He experienced almost immediate positive affects, in terms of behavior in school. But he also was having drowsy spells and stomach aches, and sometimes just seems drugged up – he falls asleep in the car for the first time since he was an infant. Fortunately, we noticed the error before it was time for him to take two, and immediately cut him back to 10. Which brings us to our present circumstances – side effects with 18, insufficient effects with 10.

In our experience (our son is 10) the side effects you mentioned go away pretty quickly — and were greatly lessened by dosing at night (which we still do). The medication has been very helpful for us. I suggest you go back to 18 and take it at night.  In time, you may be able to switch to morning dosing (we may do this when school starts; right now bedtime is a much more predictable time than morning is.) -Dawn Mom to Henry, 10

Response:

Actually, the story is a bit more complicated. He was supposed to start on 10 mg, go to 20 mg (10×2) in a week, then 30 (10×3). The pharmacy goofed and put 18s in the bottle, so he started on 18. He experienced almost immediate positive affects, in terms of behavior in school. But he also was having drowsy spells and stomach aches, and sometimes just seems drugged up – he falls asleep in the car for the first time since he was an infant. Fortunately, we noticed the error before it was time for him to take two, and immediately cut him back to 10. Which brings us to our present circumstances – side effects with 18, insufficient effects with 10. During his time with me this summer, I have chosen to give him 10 – he has more chance for physical exercise, and less requirement to be still and attentive. But I’m more interested in determining a good long-term solution for him, and none has been forthcoming from his physicial or Lilly. You have raised another issue as regards the four hour half life. His physician’s solution to the side-effects was to suggest he take the medication in the evening. I was concerned that he was still being overmedicated, but just sleeping through the symptoms. But I am now further concerned that by giving him the medication in the evening, most of the effect is wasted, thus requiring a higher dosage to maintain the effect. Also, his physician said that it builds up in the blood, but this is also apparently wrong. More info on half-life and other issues at: http://www.mosbysdrugconsult.com/DrugConsult/003578.html

Response:

Actually, the story is a bit more complicated. He was supposed to start on 10 mg, go to 20 mg (10×2) in a week, then 30 (10×3). The pharmacy goofed and put 18s in the bottle, so he started on 18. He experienced almost immediate positive affects, in terms of behavior in school. But he also was having drowsy spells and stomach aches, and sometimes just seems drugged up – he falls asleep in the car for the first time since he was an infant.

Is he sleeping the night through?  One side effect some people experience with Strattera is that it interrupts their sleep.  I wasn’t able to sleep more than 3 hours at a stretch when I was on it. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Fortunately, we noticed the error before it was time for him to take two, and immediately cut him back to 10. Which brings us to our present circumstances – side effects with 18, insufficient effects with 10. During his time with me this summer, I have chosen to give him 10 – he has more chance for physical exercise, and less requirement to be still and attentive. But I’m more interested in determining a good long-term solution for him, and none has been forthcoming from his physicial or Lilly. You have raised another issue as regards the four hour half life. His physician’s solution to the side-effects was to suggest he take the medication in the evening. I was concerned that he was still being overmedicated, but just sleeping through the symptoms. But I am now further concerned that by giving him the medication in the evening, most of the effect is wasted, thus requiring a higher dosage to maintain the effect. Also, his physician said that it builds up in the blood, but this is also apparently wrong. More info on half-life and other issues at: http://www.mosbysdrugconsult.com/DrugConsult/003578.html

– –John Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Response:

So far as I know, he is sleeping through the night. The problem we’re having is that when he takes 18 mg, he is often drowsy during the day. The doctor’s solution to this was to switch to giving him the medication at dinner instead of breakfast. This seems foolish to me, though – Strattera levels peak in 1-2 hours, and it has a half-life of 5.2 hours. So by morning, 3/4 of the medication is gone. Seems better to me to give him the medication two hours before school for maximum effect. However, the Lilly support rep said that effects of Strattera persist after blood levels drop – she said they suspect it stays in the brain after it is gone from the blood, but they aren’t sure about this. I am leaning toward morning administration on an empty stomach, and we’ll see how that goes. I just wish there were more authoritative guidance on this.

Response:

My 7 year old son has been using Strattera for about a month, with reportedly good effects. Unfortunately, it seems that 10 mg is not enough for him, but 18 mg produces substantial side-effects. Since there is no such thing as 14 mg, and you can’t break the capsules, does anyone have any experience with daily alternating between 10 and 18 mg?  His physician is making contradictory statements – on the one hand, you must never miss a day on Strattera because it builds up in your blood – but on the other hand, alternating dosages will create huge swings in effect. It seems to me that if it’s a cumulative buildup, there should be very little swinging induced by alternating doses. Lilly says they have no information on this since it wasn’t part of their clinical trial.

Response:

What are the side effects? If he has only been on 18mg for a week, that is probably not long enough to judge the side effects. With these types of drugs, often the initial side effects go away. Maybe not, but I would give it more than two weeks and then start looking at the side effects. The half-life of Strattera is only about 4 hours. So, you wont get any smoothing out of blood levels by alternating doses. You start fresh every day with Strattera. Thats not to say other mechanisms besides blood levels wont smooth out somehow. I dont know. This page is where I found the half-life: http://lists.chadd-mc.org/pipermail/chadd-mc/2002-November/000063.html For me, the nausea side effects from Effexor (which partly inhibits the reuptake of norepinephrine like Strattra dose) went away in a few days. The sleepy side effects never went away. I doubt you will know ahead of time if alternating between 10 and 18 would work. Some of the side effects happen immediately, others take time. Going from 10mg to 18, you would be taking almost double the dose every other day. You would NEVER do this with Effexor, for example – because you would be nauseous and have a headache every day. You would go though withdrawal on the half-dose days, and experience the side effects of the increased dose on the double-dose days. At least with Effexor, and other anti-depressants (I cant say about Strattera) its very important to have a steady dose. Any variation only causes more side effects. You probably can open the capsule and remove 22% of the contents. Doctors rarely let you do this because they dont trust you to do it right. And, some of them may mistakenly believe you will disrupt the absorption or time-release functions of the capsule. Anyone with any sense of statistics would see this is not a problem except for specialized capsules like Concerta. But, Strattera is not a time-release capsule anyway. And there would be no change in absorption. Again, I am curious, what are the side effects? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My 7 year old son has been using Strattera for about a month, with reportedly good effects. Unfortunately, it seems that 10 mg is not enough for him, but 18 mg produces substantial side-effects. Since there is no such thing as 14 mg, and you can’t break the capsules, does anyone have any experience with daily alternating between 10 and 18 mg?  His physician is making contradictory statements – on the one hand, you must never miss a day on Strattera because it builds up in your blood – but on the other hand, alternating dosages will create huge swings in effect. It seems to me that if it’s a cumulative buildup, there should be very little swinging induced by alternating doses. Lilly says they have no information on this since it wasn’t part of their clinical trial.

Response:

Question:

 you all should check out this web address, it is the journal of a schizophrenic…its amazing… http://www.h13.com <I finally am getting time to read some interesting posts and I find <the debate about to med or not to medicate an interesting one. A Shawneie forgery as about 2/3 of the posts today are. She is pissed off that her schemes were exposed and I refuse to allow her to use her sock puppets to hide behind so she is taking it out on everyone. Yes, she is having a very bad day.

LOL.. Poor pauly boy..

Response:

I finally am getting time to read some interesting posts and I find the debate about to med or not to medicate an interesting one. When my dau. was diagnosed with severe TS almost 3 yrs. ago, we chose to medicate.  Her tics were so that she could not attend school.  She had a loud hiccup type tic every 3 sec. of every waking moment.  Her tics went on from there.  I saw a picture of her at Christmas time when she was about in third grade where I actually took a picture of her in the middle of one of her tics.  I didn’t realize it was TS then.  I did go to m.d. about it, but they said, bad habits. So went to full gambit.  Seroquel, Respiradol, Zyprexia, Clonidine, Tenex, Klonopin, Geodon and  antidepressants–Zoloft, Wellbutrin, and Prozac.  After all of that, my dau. is not presently on any medications.  By this summer, she had had it and we pulled her off her present medications of Prozac and Geodon.  As soon as we deleted Prozac, my old dau. emerged.  She was a ticcing old dau., but her old personality resurfaced.  It was like a miracle to us.  She traded dealing with ticcing rather than being spaced out, drugged out, crazed out by drugs that she had no control over her reactions to.  Three years later she is learning to live with her ticcing, learning to deal with the teasing she had received in middle school (she hardly attended school at all during her middle school years).  She has developed a harder crust.  She no longer self-mutilates, but still tics a great deal and I drive4 her crazy–such as breathing, sneezing, coughing, etc.  My noises and mannerisms sends her into tail spins. If I had known that Prozac was having the negative impact on her, I would have demanded she be taken off of it.  I think many of us parents are just so desperate to return our children to what we view as normalcy.  I never realized how this med was affecting her.  I just thought she was mentally decompensating more.  Especially with antidepressants, you have to watch out for weight gain and ones that could make you tic more, such as Zoloft and Wellbutrin.  It is so complicated and scarey to medicate to kids.  They are often unable to fully explain to the medicating docs how the medications are truly affecting them. The child often wants the medications to work so bad that they are initially willing to put up with anything that could help them deal with the tics. Then it is further complicated by the philosophical treatment of the neuros vs. the psychiatrists.  It is also dependent on if you have a doctor in any field that has any real experience with TS.  It is just very scarey out there for both the parent and the TS child.  I know first hand.  Been there and done that. I think it took me awhile to come to terms with my daughter’s diagnosis of TS.  I see so many parents making comments, that "my beautiful, gifted, child has TS."  They feel that somehow their child has been blighted.  I know I fell into that trap too.  It just takes awhile for us parents to accept the pronounced changes that happen when a child has TS.  Their ticcing driving you crazy; their not being able to attend school sometimes; their being upset when kids tease them; their being depressed because their lives will never be the ame–they just want to be "normal" like everyone else.  Let’s face it, in adolescents, especially, it is like a kiss of death to be thought of as different.  All of the peer pressure is staggering to a TS child. Would I do what I did if I had to do it over again, probably.  Because I must remember where we were at three years ago–so desperate, so unwilling to accept what was my daughter’s plight.  Were we misguided–perhaps.  We we desperate–yes.  We just had to try to do anything we could go help her, good or bad, only to come to full circle and take all of the medications away.  The ironies of life. Dawnee Dawnee

Response:

Question:

Got a lecture from my sister. Told her that I might want to go back to my old job and risk moving. She said I was crazy after getting exactly what I wanted in the new job. I just told her that I was very insecure about walking in the door. She said huh?   Another misunderstanding. Now my fingers don’t work – Another Effexor withdrawal symptom?  MAC who claims to be…… Ativan time……

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Got a lecture from my sister. Told her that I might want to go back to my old job and risk moving. She said I was crazy after getting exactly what I wanted in the new job. I just told her that I was very insecure about walking in the door. She said huh?   Another misunderstanding. Now my fingers don’t work – Another Effexor withdrawal symptom?  MAC who claims to be…… Ativan time……

make a pro and con list for both jobs write it down so you can evaluate and re-evaluate it

Response:

Hi, Mac, Only you can make this decision.  As Margrove stated make a pro and con list – see which weighs out in your favor… Remember, you have visited the new environment which in turn means you have walked through the door (literally)… smiles, Elise

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Got a lecture from my sister. Told her that I might want to go back to my old job and risk moving. She said I was crazy after getting exactly what I wanted in the new job. I just told her that I was very insecure about walking in the door. She said huh?   Another misunderstanding. Now my fingers don’t work – Another Effexor withdrawal symptom?  MAC who claims to be…… Ativan time……

Response:

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Robert, dont reply to this sick troll because I have Steve blocked and whenever you reply to him remnants of his posts show up in my newsreader. Just ignore Steve Robert, Steve is a very mentally ill man who does not realize how mentally ill he is. He is one of these people whose got serious problems but is in denial about it. Its obvious that Steve has some problems. Im too burned out talking about this asshole to go into all the details. You know Steve has got some problems…and I know Steve has got some problems. However I do not think Steve realizes he has got some problems. Again, Im done conversing with Steve and I would encourage you and others to not converse with him either. Just ignore him, ostracize him…eventually he will leave. Eric . My courage for my father, my heart for my mother and my prick for a whore…French Foreign Legion saying. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FactsAndFallaciesOfDepression

I’ll give it a shot, Al, I hate to see the cheap shots against you plus I’m pro med, it keeps me sane. Remove the **** from my address for email replies…. —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Here we see a clear reason to ignore the advice of Eric.  He uses the yardstick of his personal experience, rather then the results of scientific research as a basis for advice to other people.  Eric might mean well, or he might want to induce hellish symptomology in others. It is hard to tell, but in any case the experiences of one person, no matter how well meaning are not a safe yardstick to use for ones own health. Linda Gore does the same damn thing but I don’t see you criticize her. The whole thing about SSRIs being "dangerous drugs" is total absolute bullshit. SSRIs are some of the safest drugs you can take, providing you are depressed to begin with and are not bipolar. Even though there is growing body of evidence which says otherwise, even though the SSRI’s were only tested from 6-8 weeks in clinical trials to determine safety while typically they are used for months or years in the real world, even though in trials where placebos were designed to mimic the side effects of SSRI’s were almost as ‘effective’ as SSRI’s themselves. Yeah, SSRI’s are good for some people, but they are mainly a phenomenon of marketing rather then efficacy. Eric My courage for my father, my heart for my mother and my prick for a whore…French Foreign Legion saying. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FactsAndFallaciesOfDepression Remove the **** from my address for email replies…. —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—– Hey Robert, dont reply to the trolls like Steve.

I guess Eric feels you need his help to surf safely, Robert!  Ive got him blocked, but when you reply to him his posts show up in my newsreader.

And how is this anyone’s concern, save Eric’s?   Steve is a very mentally ill troll, in denial of his delusional state. Yesterday my sister came over for Thanksgiving and I mentioned to her this troll guy who follows me around on Usenet harassing me. I told her I suspected he is mentally ill but in no treatment program for it. You see, my sister has a Bachelor of Science in psychology. She completed 36 hours in psychology and was in a social work masters degree program but dropped out cause she realized she didnt want to work in the mental health field. She knows a lot about psychology, talk therapy, etc.

So, according to Eric, his sister is totally unqualified to say anything http://groups.google.com/groups?q=group:alt.support.depression.medica… If a full psychologist is worthless, why does Eric cite the opinion of a person with just a BS in psychology? Anyway I had her read some of Steve’s nutcase posts. She was laughing at his posts and told me that Steve is clearly delusional, to the point he has paranoid delusions actually.

My word, a person you hold up to be a psychology expert is laughing at the suffering of someone who she is diagnosing as very ill?  What’s wrong with this picture?  Perhaps the only place this meeting took place was in Eric’s tortured and defective brain.  Are we to believe that a psychology expert, such as the person Eric holds up will after a few minutes study of internet posts make a serious diagnosis of a severe mental illness?  What’s wrong with this picture?  She told me his incessant belief that psychiatry is out to get us all is a paranoid delusion.

Please post the EXACT posts of mine which form the basis for this diagnosis, please Eric.  As well as his constant neverending insistence that forced ECT is still commonplace in the USA,

Eric denied the many posts I put up about this unusual, but by no means rare fact.  Please go back to my old posts this summer, or read www.ect.org.  along with his constant talking about lobotomies,

Which I mainly mention to defend Eric’s nemesis, Dr. Peter Breggin, or to point out how modified versions of the procedure are being performed at Harvard’s mental hospital, McLean.  "gamma ray" lobotomy machines and other nonsense that I have never even heard of in all my four years of being involved with psychiatry.

Here Eric seems to be implying that since he has been a mental patient for four years he is an authority on all aspects of psychiatry! Delusional thinking in MY opinion! http://www.ynhh.org/gammaknife/infophysician.html Here is an interesting quote from the Yale web site, listed above, on the Gamma Knife: Who can benefit from this treatment? Indications at present include:      * benign tumors such as meningiomas, acoustic neuromas, pituitary adenomas and craniopharyngiomas      * primary or recurrent malignant brain tumors such as astrocytomas or oligodendrogliomas      * solitary and multiple brain metastases      * head and neck tumors such as nasopharyngeal carcinomas and ocular melanomas      * arteriovenous malformations (AVMs)      * trigeminal neuralgia and cluster headaches      * intractable pain secondary to cancer      * movement disorders such as Parkinson’s disease and essential tremor investigational tool for certain forms of epilepsy and psychiatric Haven Gamma Knife Center will be evaluated by a team of specialists with extensive experience, including neurosurgeons, radiation oncologists and neuroradiologists. Candidates for the procedure are selected for treatment only after a thorough review of all prior records and imaging studies. <http://www.ynhh.org/gammaknife/graphics/top.gif She cited delusion after delusion with Steve, some of them paranoid delusions.

Do list this catalogue of mental illness, would you, Eric.  I am sure it will make interesting, and amusing reading! My sister told me Steve clearly needs to be in a psychotic disorders treatment program, possibly at a teaching hospital. His mood does not seem to be that low, thus his problem is most likely a psychotic condition…a disorder of perception she told me.

SO then not seeing things as Eric sees them is now defined as a mental illness?  Not surprising for a troubled fellow who evaluates the worth of a drug by the results he obtained during the use thereof, and bases suggestions to other people exclusively upon his limited experience. In other words, Steve’s a grade A nutcase Robert.

In other words, Eric is a liar who has one goal here:  Defense of his dysfunctional belief system based upon a defective brain, rather then taking ANY personal responsibility for his present state. I will grant that the production of propaganda, out of whole cloth, by Eric would have stood him in good stead with Himmler and other proponents of the ‘big lie’ technique. Come to your own conclusions.

Response:

I think I’m going to stay out of this one, drugs saved my sanity and my life, nuff said. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Here we see a clear reason to ignore the advice of Eric.  He uses the yardstick of his personal experience, rather then the results of scientific research as a basis for advice to other people.  Eric might mean well, or he might want to induce hellish symptomology in others. It is hard to tell, but in any case the experiences of one person, no matter how well meaning are not a safe yardstick to use for ones own health. Linda Gore does the same damn thing but I don’t see you criticize her. The whole thing about SSRIs being "dangerous drugs" is total absolute bullshit. SSRIs are some of the safest drugs you can take, providing you are depressed to begin with and are not bipolar. Even though there is growing body of evidence which says otherwise, even though the SSRI’s were only tested from 6-8 weeks in clinical trials to determine safety while typically they are used for months or years in the real world, even though in trials where placebos were designed to mimic the side effects of SSRI’s were almost as ‘effective’ as SSRI’s themselves. Yeah, SSRI’s are good for some people, but they are mainly a phenomenon of marketing rather then efficacy. Eric My courage for my father, my heart for my mother and my prick for a whore…French Foreign Legion saying. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FactsAndFallaciesOfDepression Remove the **** from my address for email replies…. —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—– Hey Robert, dont reply to the trolls like Steve. Ive got him blocked, but when you reply to him his posts show up in my newsreader.  Steve is a very mentally ill troll, in denial of his delusional state. Gee, Robert, sounds like Eric thinks you need his protection.  What do you think? Yesterday my sister came over for Thanksgiving and I mentioned to her this troll guy who follows me around on Usenet harassing me. I told her I suspected he is mentally ill but in no treatment program for it. You see, my sister has a Bachelor of Science in psychology. She completed 36 hours in psychology and was in a social work masters degree program but dropped out cause she realized she didnt want to work in the mental health field. She knows a lot about psychology, talk therapy, etc. However Eric has stated time and again that talk therapy is worthless. http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&rnum=22&selm=20010327104630.277… Anyway I had her read some of Steve’s nutcase posts. She was laughing at his posts and told me that Steve is clearly delusional, to the point he has paranoid delusions actually. So you sister shares your unique ability to diagnose over the internet, Eric?  Would you care to post the EXACT posts which your totally unqualified, to apply your own standards, sister has reached? She told me his incessant belief that psychiatry is out to get us all is a paranoid delusion. Please post any post which I wrote that would lead to such a conclusion, then please contrast it with a wonderful gem of your own, Eric, like this one:http://groups.google.com/groups?q=group:alt.support.depression.medica… As well as his constant neverending insistence that forced ECT is still commonplace in the USA, Evidence which I posted to the unusual, but by no means rare practice was ignored by Eric. along with his constant talking about lobotomies, I rarely mention lobotomies, usually to defend Dr. Peter Breggin, who, as Eric agrees, lead the movement to push lobotomy from the mainstream of psychiatric practice, and limit it to places such as Harvard Universities mental hospital, McLean Hospital. "gamma ray" lobotomy machines and other nonsense that I have never even heard of in all my four years of being involved with psychiatry. So by being a severely depressed mental patient Eric is by some mystical form of osmosis to learn of every aspect of psychiatry?  And he accuses me of thought disorders! http://193.132.197.83/ContentInternational.nsf?Open Pay special attention to the Parkinson’s section, please:http://www.nwhgammaknife.com/gamma/conditionsframes/frameset.html and from yale: http://www.ynhh.org/gammaknife/infophysician.html#who "In addition, the gamma knife is being used as an investigational tool for certain forms of epilepsy and psychiatric disease. Patients referred to the Yale-New Haven Gamma Knife Center will be evaluated by a team of specialists with extensive experience, including neurosurgeons, radiation oncologists and neuroradiologists. Candidates for the procedure are selected for treatment only after a thorough review of all prior records and imaging studies." Finding this information took me less then 5 minutes.  I am sure that Eric is an experienced web user who could duplicate my efforts in about the same amount of time. She cited delusion after delusion with Steve, some of them paranoid delusions. Do share with us the results of your sisters diagnosis, Eric.  Do tell us the many delusions from which I suffer. My sister told me Steve clearly needs to be in a psychotic disorders treatment program, possibly at a teaching hospital. His mood does not seem to be that low, thus his problem is most likely a psychotic condition…a disorder of perception she told me. In other words, Steve’s a grade A nutcase Robert. In other words, Robert, Eric is a liar who will even invent material from whole cloth to serve his ends, which to me seem to perpetuate the dysfunctional belief system he functions under, due to fear to face his inner demons. But thats just my opinion!

Remove the **** from my address for email replies…. —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Here we see a clear reason to ignore the advice of Eric.  He uses the yardstick of his personal experience, rather then the results of scientific research as a basis for advice to other people.  Eric might mean well, or he might want to induce hellish symptomology in others. It is hard to tell, but in any case the experiences of one person, no matter how well meaning are not a safe yardstick to use for ones own health. Linda Gore does the same damn thing but I don’t see you criticize her. The whole thing about SSRIs being "dangerous drugs" is total absolute bullshit. SSRIs are some of the safest drugs you can take, providing you are depressed to begin with and are not bipolar. Even though there is growing body of evidence which says otherwise, even though the SSRI’s were only tested from 6-8 weeks in clinical trials to determine safety while typically they are used for months or years in the real world, even though in trials where placebos were designed to mimic the side effects of SSRI’s were almost as ‘effective’ as SSRI’s themselves. Yeah, SSRI’s are good for some people, but they are mainly a phenomenon of marketing rather then efficacy. Eric My courage for my father, my heart for my mother and my prick for a whore…French Foreign Legion saying. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FactsAndFallaciesOfDepression Remove the **** from my address for email replies…. —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—– Hey Robert, dont reply to the trolls like Steve. Ive got him blocked, but when you reply to him his posts show up in my newsreader.  Steve is a very mentally ill troll, in denial of his delusional state.

Gee, Robert, sounds like Eric thinks you need his protection.  What do you think?  Yesterday my sister came over for Thanksgiving and I mentioned to her this troll guy who follows me around on Usenet harassing me. I told her I suspected he is mentally ill but in no treatment program for it. You see, my sister has a Bachelor of Science in psychology. She completed 36 hours in psychology and was in a social work masters degree program but dropped out cause she realized she didnt want to work in the mental health field. She knows a lot about psychology, talk therapy, etc.

However Eric has stated time and again that talk therapy is worthless. http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&rnum=22&selm=20010327104630.277… Anyway I had her read some of Steve’s nutcase posts. She was laughing at his posts and told me that Steve is clearly delusional, to the point he has paranoid delusions actually.

So you sister shares your unique ability to diagnose over the internet, Eric?  Would you care to post the EXACT posts which your totally unqualified, to apply your own standards, sister has reached?  She told me his incessant belief that psychiatry is out to get us all is a paranoid delusion.

Please post any post which I wrote that would lead to such a conclusion, then please contrast it with a wonderful gem of your own, Eric, like this one:http://groups.google.com/groups?q=group:alt.support.depression.medica… As well as his constant neverending insistence that forced ECT is still commonplace in the USA,

Evidence which I posted to the unusual, but by no means rare practice was ignored by Eric.  along with his constant talking about lobotomies,

I rarely mention lobotomies, usually to defend Dr. Peter Breggin, who, as Eric agrees, lead the movement to push lobotomy from the mainstream of psychiatric practice, and limit it to places such as Harvard Universities mental hospital, McLean Hospital.  "gamma ray" lobotomy machines and other nonsense that I have never even heard of in all my four years of being involved with psychiatry.

So by being a severely depressed mental patient Eric is by some mystical form of osmosis to learn of every aspect of psychiatry?  And he accuses me of thought disorders! http://193.132.197.83/ContentInternational.nsf?Open Pay special attention to the Parkinson’s section, please:http://www.nwhgammaknife.com/gamma/conditionsframes/frameset.html and from yale: http://www.ynhh.org/gammaknife/infophysician.html#who "In addition, the gamma knife is being used as an investigational tool for certain forms of epilepsy and psychiatric disease. Patients referred to the Yale-New Haven Gamma Knife Center will be evaluated by a team of specialists with extensive experience, including neurosurgeons, radiation oncologists and neuroradiologists. Candidates for the procedure are selected for treatment only after a thorough review of all prior records and imaging studies." Finding this information took me less then 5 minutes.  I am sure that Eric is an experienced web user who could duplicate my efforts in about the same amount of time. She cited delusion after delusion with Steve, some of them paranoid delusions.

Do share with us the results of your sisters diagnosis, Eric.  Do tell us the many delusions from which I suffer. My sister told me Steve clearly needs to be in a psychotic disorders treatment program, possibly at a teaching hospital. His mood does not seem to be that low, thus his problem is most likely a psychotic condition…a disorder of perception she told me. In other words, Steve’s a grade A nutcase Robert.

In other words, Robert, Eric is a liar who will even invent material from whole cloth to serve his ends, which to me seem to perpetuate the dysfunctional belief system he functions under, due to fear to face his inner demons. But thats just my opinion!

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Linda Gore does the same damn thing but I don’t see you criticize her. The reason I find Eric so dangerous is that he writes with such authority, and unless one is skeptical or has been around the bad, dangerous advice eric gives could hurt other people.  The fact that the basis for Eric to make a decision is solely HIS experience is another reason I comment when his posts are less then accurate. Naturally my writing is my own opinion, I am not a doctor.  Eric, on the other hand seems to believe that being a mental patient for four years gives him some special knowledge which I lack. I disagree, vigorously.

I think your not giving people enough credit, IMHO your persecution of one poster shines a bad light on you. Linda Gore gives statistics without a shred of evidence yet that seems to be ok because she is ant-med. Well the thing is she IMHO is the most fucked up poster here and I bet it’s cause she won’t seek treatment by those nasty meds that are so evil yet give me such solace. Remove the **** from my address for email replies…. —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I never had SSRIs incite "suicidal ideation" in me. I think this is bullshit. Its something that the anti-med people are capitalizing. Bipolar people sometimes become suicidal or agitated on SSRIs. Bipolars should not generally be on SSRIs without a mood stabilizer. Here we see a clear reason to ignore the advice of Eric.  He uses the yardstick of his personal experience, rather then the results of scientific research as a basis for advice to other people.  Eric might mean well, or he might want to induce hellish symptomology in others. It is hard to tell, but in any case the experiences of one person, no matter how well meaning are not a safe yardstick to use for ones own health. Linda Gore does the same damn thing but I don’t see you criticize her.

The reason I find Eric so dangerous is that he writes with such authority, and unless one is skeptical or has been around the bad, dangerous advice eric gives could hurt other people.  The fact that the basis for Eric to make a decision is solely HIS experience is another reason I comment when his posts are less then accurate. Naturally my writing is my own opinion, I am not a doctor.  Eric, on the other hand seems to believe that being a mental patient for four years gives him some special knowledge which I lack. I disagree, vigorously. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -The whole thing about SSRIs being "dangerous drugs" is total absolute bullshit. SSRIs are some of the safest drugs you can take, providing you are depressed to begin with and are not bipolar. Even though there is growing body of evidence which says otherwise, even though the SSRI’s were only tested from 6-8 weeks in clinical trials to determine safety while typically they are used for months or years in the real world, even though in trials where placebos were designed to mimic the side effects of SSRI’s were almost as ‘effective’ as SSRI’s themselves. Yeah, SSRI’s are good for some people, but they are mainly a phenomenon of marketing rather then efficacy. Eric My courage for my father, my heart for my mother and my prick for a whore…French Foreign Legion saying. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FactsAndFallaciesOfDepression Remove the **** from my address for email replies…. —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I never had SSRIs incite "suicidal ideation" in me. I think this is bullshit. Its something that the anti-med people are capitalizing. Bipolar people sometimes become suicidal or agitated on SSRIs. Bipolars should not generally be on SSRIs without a mood stabilizer. Here we see a clear reason to ignore the advice of Eric.  He uses the yardstick of his personal experience, rather then the results of scientific research as a basis for advice to other people.  Eric might mean well, or he might want to induce hellish symptomology in others. It is hard to tell, but in any case the experiences of one person, no matter how well meaning are not a safe yardstick to use for ones own health.

Linda Gore does the same damn thing but I don’t see you criticize her. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The whole thing about SSRIs being "dangerous drugs" is total absolute bullshit. SSRIs are some of the safest drugs you can take, providing you are depressed to begin with and are not bipolar. Even though there is growing body of evidence which says otherwise, even though the SSRI’s were only tested from 6-8 weeks in clinical trials to determine safety while typically they are used for months or years in the real world, even though in trials where placebos were designed to mimic the side effects of SSRI’s were almost as ‘effective’ as SSRI’s themselves. Yeah, SSRI’s are good for some people, but they are mainly a phenomenon of marketing rather then efficacy. Eric My courage for my father, my heart for my mother and my prick for a whore…French Foreign Legion saying. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FactsAndFallaciesOfDepression

Remove the **** from my address for email replies…. —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hey Robert, dont reply to the trolls like Steve. Ive got him blocked, but when you reply to him his posts show up in my newsreader.  Steve is a very mentally ill troll, in denial of his delusional state. Yesterday my sister came over for Thanksgiving and I mentioned to her this troll guy who follows me around on Usenet harassing me. I told her I suspected he is mentally ill but in no treatment program for it. You see, my sister has a Bachelor of Science in psychology. She completed 36 hours in psychology and was in a social work masters degree program but dropped out cause she realized she didnt want to work in the mental health field. She knows a lot about psychology, talk therapy, etc. Anyway I had her read some of Steve’s nutcase posts. She was laughing at his posts and told me that Steve is clearly delusional, to the point he has paranoid delusions actually. She told me his incessant belief that psychiatry is out to get us all is a paranoid delusion. As well as his constant neverending insistence that forced ECT is still commonplace in the USA, along with his constant talking about lobotomies, "gamma ray" lobotomy machines and other nonsense that I have never even heard of in all my four years of being involved with psychiatry. She cited delusion after delusion with Steve, some of them paranoid delusions. My sister told me Steve clearly needs to be in a psychotic disorders treatment program, possibly at a teaching hospital. His mood does not seem to be that low, thus his problem is most likely a psychotic condition…a disorder of perception she told me. In other words, Steve’s a grade A nutcase Robert. Eric My courage for my father, my heart for my mother and my prick for a whore…French Foreign Legion saying. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FactsAndFallaciesOfDepression

Sorry Eric, I’ll try to remember not to quote him for you. I think he’s an alright guy but he does have an unusual fixation on you. Remove the **** from my address for email replies…. —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

You know I didnt tell the poster that to frighten him..but to reassure someone reporting suicidal ideations…others have experienced them….. .you guys have a funny way of supporting people…telling them the suicidal thoughts they are having are rare…  which to me be more worrisome than my suggesting its common starting up on SSRI’s so common 25% of subjects in the clinical trials for paxil had suicidal ideations incited ..BTW.. But wtf…tell people having them  their rare…if it makes you feel better…even if it does shit to reassure them..

Cite your sources. Remove the **** from my address for email replies…. —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ideation I`de*a"tion, n. The faculty or capacity of the mind for forming ideas; the exercise of this capacity; the act of the mind by which objects of sense are apprehended and retained as objects of thought. It’s as I thought. Yes, a thought…or idea…  which can prey upon your mind…BUT where its an ideation…only..its unaccompanied by the impulse…or desire to act upon the thought…me thinks.. Hope you feel better today…

Thank you, — ~misfit~

Response:

Hi misfit… the SSRI’s  like Prozac and Paxil..actually incite or activate suicidal ideations in some,   most especially when you just begin them or right after you stop taking them…

Cite your sources. Prozac incited the idea in me once…the second time I went on Prozac…and I spent one really terrified coping with such an idea.. after I gotten bad news in the middle of the night…about an uncle who had committed suicide.. and the suggestion  of it…would not leave me…

Runs in the family I see. I called a hotline…and the person who took my call ended up making me so angry…so I hung up..

Anger and getting along with people seam to be trouble for you Linda Gore. I think the thing really helped me…even while I couldnt get the ideas out of my mind…I still knew it was the  Prozac inciting the idea, and not my idea… ..

The fault my dear Brutus is not in our stars but in our selves…… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all, just thought I’d introduce myself, been lurking a day or two. I suffer from chronic depression and have just started a course of Paxil (20mg day). I am 40 years old, male, and have always tended towards depression, my mother also suffers with it and has been on Prozac for years. I was on Prozac myself about two years ago but only for a couple of months, I had some side-effects that I didn’t like such as profuse sweating, anxiety, insomnia and lowered libido. I entered into a relationship just after that and life got better.  I’ve just (two weeks ago) been released from jail after serving six months for cultivation of cannabis. When I had about one month to go I got a letter from my fiancee saying she was leaving me. Turned out she had an affair with someone she met in a chat room (and I encouraged her to spend time on the net as she was missing me). I’ve been trying to get together with her agian but it’s no-go, she finally told me two days ago.  I have been having suicidal ideations (is that the right word?) to the extent that, yesterday evening I sorted out a length of hose, put it in the car and sat at my puter and wrote a note to leave on the passenger seat. I was just printing the note when a friend called around to visit and ask if he could stay the night on the couch. He has been worried about me. he is taking medication for various things and over the last two weeks I’ve been getting a little Oxezapam off him. I took 75mg last night and the urgency went away. We don’t talk about my feelings a hell of a lot, I have trouble with that face to face (and if/when I top myself I don’t want anyone panicing, trying to stop me). I have a good friend who I’ve never met in person who I have an email relationship with and she knows *exactly* how I feel. She has been very supportive.  This isn’t just one of those "My girlfriend left me and I want to kill myself" situations. My life basically sucks and I credit her (to myself) with keeping me alive these last two years. I’ve been sad and had suicidal t houghts ever since I was a teenager, and a lot more than most.  I honestly don’t feel I have a lot to live for but don’t really want to upset family etc. I’m gonna try to give it a go and have come to the conclusion that I’ll probably need to be medicated for the rest of my life, especially if I want it to be more than a few days. The doctor gave me some Oxezapam today as well as the Paxil, I told her I want something that works now, tonight. She would only give me a little though, 30 x 10 mg and told me only 3 per day.  Basically I s’pose I wondered if anyone has any suggestions for medication. I’m in New Zealand so I may not have the same medications available to me as people in other countries. So yeah, anyone have any ideas? If I’m gonna be in the same mood as I’ve been in for the last 40 years for the rest of my life then I’m not sure I want to go on. Thanks for reading this, — ~misfit~

Remove the **** from my address for email replies…. —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Don’t be too frightened.  While it’s true that SSRIs have incited suicidal ideation in some people, it should be stressed that this is not common.  It’s just something to watch out for and report immediately to your doctor if it happens to you; sort of like allergic reactions to penicillin.  SSRIs work pretty well for most people. S. suricata I never had SSRIs incite "suicidal ideation" in me. I think this is bullshit. Its something that the anti-med people are capitalizing. Bipolar people sometimes become suicidal or agitated on SSRIs. Bipolars should not generally be on SSRIs without a mood stabilizer.

Here we see a clear reason to ignore the advice of Eric.  He uses the yardstick of his personal experience, rather then the results of scientific research as a basis for advice to other people.  Eric might mean well, or he might want to induce hellish symptomology in others. It is hard to tell, but in any case the experiences of one person, no matter how well meaning are not a safe yardstick to use for ones own health. The whole thing about SSRIs being "dangerous drugs" is total absolute bullshit. SSRIs are some of the safest drugs you can take, providing you are depressed to begin with and are not bipolar.

Even though there is growing body of evidence which says otherwise, even though the SSRI’s were only tested from 6-8 weeks in clinical trials to determine safety while typically they are used for months or years in the real world, even though in trials where placebos were designed to mimic the side effects of SSRI’s were almost as ‘effective’ as SSRI’s themselves. Yeah, SSRI’s are good for some people, but they are mainly a phenomenon of marketing rather then efficacy. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Eric My courage for my father, my heart for my mother and my prick for a whore…French Foreign Legion saying. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FactsAndFallaciesOfDepression

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You know I didnt tell the poster that to frighten him..but to reassure someone reporting suicidal ideations…others have experienced them….. .you guys have a funny way of supporting people…telling them the suicidal thoughts they are having are rare…  which to me be more worrisome than my suggesting its common starting up on SSRI’s so common 25% of subjects in the clinical trials for paxil had suicidal ideations incited ..BTW.. But wtf…tell people having them  their rare…if it makes you feel better…even if it does shit to reassure them..  S’cool, like I said, nothing frightens me. And FWIW I agree, it’s better for people to know that it is a known side-effect than for them to solely attribute the feeling to themselves, that way they are less likely to act on it. IMO.

Glad you understood my intent… BTW, please excuse my ignorance but can someone give me a defimition of ‘ideations’ please. I’m sure I know what it means but I’d like to have it defined. LOL, S’okay, I just looked it up: ideation I`de*a"tion, n. The faculty or capacity of the mind for forming ideas; the exercise of this capacity; the act of the mind by which objects of sense are apprehended and retained as objects of thought. It’s as I thought.

Yes, a thought…or idea…  which can prey upon your mind…BUT where its an ideation…only..its unaccompanied by the impulse…or desire to act upon the thought…me thinks.. Hope you feel better today… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Cheers, — ~misfit~

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – the SSRI’s  like Prozac and Paxil..actually incite or activate suicidal ideations in some,   most especially when you just begin them or right after you stop taking them… Well, it’s possible that SSRI’s cause suicidal ideation in a very small number of people. However, since Misfit already has this problem it would be very hard to tell if they were a side effect or not. I got a different explanation from my pdoc, which accurately describes my experience though I don’t have a paper reference for it offhand. My pdoc said that often people are too depressed to act on suicidal ideation when they start antidepressants. I know I had the ideation, but no energy or will to act on it. Sometimes people get an energy lift from the medication before they get a mood lift, so after starting medication people become more able to actually act out the ideation. Again, this matches my experience. I had the ideation without the antidepressants, but as I started to get a little more energy I became a much more genuine suicide risk. Fortunately, I have been able to get through these parts without, yet, attempting to hurt myself. Bright blessings to you. Fiona

What you say your pdoc told you, Fiona, about AD’s is true of all of them.  People are too depressed to do much, and as the AD’s kick in they are able to muster the strength to act on their desires. The difference with SSRI’s, however, is that SSRI’s are noted to actually induce suicidal ideation where it was not present before.

Response:

You know I didnt tell the poster that to frighten him..but to reassure someone reporting suicidal ideations…others have experienced them….. .you guys have a funny way of supporting people…telling them the suicidal thoughts they are having are rare…  which to me be more worrisome than my suggesting its common starting up on SSRI’s so common 25% of subjects in the clinical trials for paxil had suicidal ideations incited ..BTW.. But wtf…tell people having them  their rare…if it makes you feel better…even if it does shit to reassure them..

 S’cool, like I said, nothing frightens me. And FWIW I agree, it’s better for people to know that it is a known side-effect than for them to solely attribute the feeling to themselves, that way they are less likely to act on it. IMO. BTW, please excuse my ignorance but can someone give me a defimition of ‘ideations’ please. I’m sure I know what it means but I’d like to have it defined. LOL, S’okay, I just looked it up: ideation I`de*a"tion, n. The faculty or capacity of the mind for forming ideas; the exercise of this capacity; the act of the mind by which objects of sense are apprehended and retained as objects of thought. It’s as I thought. Cheers, — ~misfit~

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That’s something I didn’t know, that SSRI’s can incite suicidal ideations. Hell, I don’t need that, I had them before I started on Paxil. I’m only on my second day of Paxil and I feel a bit ‘fuzzy headed’ and a little queasy. I hope that these effects will go away, I feel shitty enough already. Don’t be too frightened.  While it’s true that SSRIs have incited suicidal ideation in some people, it should be stressed that this is not common.  It’s just something to watch out for and report immediately to your doctor if it happens to you; sort of like allergic reactions to penicillin.  SSRIs work pretty well for most people.

Thanks for that, I don’t actually have the enthusiasum to be frightened though. — ~misfit~

Response:

the SSRI’s  like Prozac and Paxil..actually incite or activate suicidal ideations in some,   most especially when you just begin them or right after you stop taking them…

Well, it’s possible that SSRI’s cause suicidal ideation in a very small number of people. However, since Misfit already has this problem it would be very hard to tell if they were a side effect or not. I got a different explanation from my pdoc, which accurately describes my experience though I don’t have a paper reference for it offhand. My pdoc said that often people are too depressed to act on suicidal ideation when they start antidepressants. I know I had the ideation, but no energy or will to act on it. Sometimes people get an energy lift from the medication before they get a mood lift, so after starting medication people become more able to actually act out the ideation. Again, this matches my experience. I had the ideation without the antidepressants, but as I started to get a little more energy I became a much more genuine suicide risk. Fortunately, I have been able to get through these parts without, yet, attempting to hurt myself. Bright blessings to you. Fiona — If we had no winter, the spring would not be so pleasant: if we did not sometimes taste the adversity, prosperity would not be so welcome.      – Anne Bradstreet, Meditations Divine and Moral, 1664

Response:

I never had SSRIs incite "suicidal ideation" in me. I think this is bullshit. Its something that the anti-med people are capitalizing. Bipolar people sometimes become suicidal or agitated on SSRIs. Bipolars should not generally be on SSRIs without a mood stabilizer. The whole thing about SSRIs being "dangerous drugs" is total absolute bullshit. SSRIs are some of the safest drugs you can take, providing you are depressed to begin with and are not bipolar.

I’m a drug enthusiast, myself, but I see a problem with this line of reasoning.  What you seem to be saying is that SSRIs are safe for us gloomies, but sometimes dangerous for the flip-flop folks.  This would be fine, except that psychiatrists are notoriously bad at diagnosis.  There are no established physical markers to distinguish unipolars from bipolars; not even on autopsy.  So, suppose you’re a bipolar, and you’ve just had your first plunge into the black depths of depression.  In a few months, you’re scheduled to get very happy indeed, but you don’t know that, and neither does the psychiatrist to whom you’ve just been referred.  As far as she’s concerned, you’re depressed, and you agree with her.  You get Prozac as the drug of first choice.  Since you’re actually bipolar, you’re in trouble because this isn’t the drug for you. Of course, if psychiatric diagnosis were infallible, SSRIs would be safe, but it isn’t, so the prudent approach would be to admit that SSRI prescriptions have their risks, no? S. suricata

Response:

That’s something I didn’t know, that SSRI’s can incite suicidal ideations. Hell, I don’t need that, I had them before I started on Paxil. I’m only on my second day of Paxil and I feel a bit ‘fuzzy headed’ and a little queasy. I hope that these effects will go away, I feel shitty enough already.

Don’t be too frightened.  While it’s true that SSRIs have incited suicidal ideation in some people, it should be stressed that this is not common.  It’s just something to watch out for and report immediately to your doctor if it happens to you; sort of like allergic reactions to penicillin.  SSRIs work pretty well for most people. S. suricata

Response:

Hi HerEvilTwin, Thanks for taking the time to reply.  That’s something I didn’t know, that SSRI’s can incite suicidal ideations. Hell, I don’t need that, I had them before I started on Paxil. I’m only on my second day of Paxil and I feel a bit ‘fuzzy headed’ and a little queasy. I hope that these effects will go away, I feel shitty enough already. Thanks again, — ~misfit~

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi misfit… the SSRI’s  like Prozac and Paxil..actually incite or activate suicidal ideations in some,   most especially when you just begin them or right after you stop taking them… Prozac incited the idea in me once…the second time I went on Prozac…and I spent one really terrified coping with such an idea.. after I gotten bad news in the middle of the night…about an uncle who had committed suicide.. and the suggestion  of it…would not leave me… I called a hotline…and the person who took my call ended up making me so angry…so I hung up.. I think the thing really helped me…even while I couldnt get the ideas out of my mind…I still knew it was the  Prozac inciting the idea, and not my idea…

Response:

Hi and Welcome to the ng,  Hi all, just thought I’d introduce myself, been lurking a day or two. I suffer from chronic depression and have just started a course of Paxil (20mg day). snipped… There are many ADs available. The Paxil will take about 3 weeks to work. I hope you feel better soon.

Hi Lynda, thanks for the welcome and the good wishes. — ~misfit~

Response:

 Hi all, just thought I’d introduce myself, been lurking a day or two. I suffer from chronic depression and have just started a course of Paxil (20mg day). I am 40 years old, male, and have always tended towards depression, my mother also suffers with it and has been on Prozac for years. I was on Prozac myself about two years ago but only for a couple of months, I had some side-effects that I didn’t like such as profuse sweating, anxiety, insomnia and lowered libido. I entered into a relationship just after that and life got better.  I’ve just (two weeks ago) been released from jail after serving six months for cultivation of cannabis. When I had about one month to go I got a letter from my fiancee saying she was leaving me. Turned out she had an affair with someone she met in a chat room (and I encouraged her to spend time on the net as she was missing me). I’ve been trying to get together with her agian but it’s no-go, she finally told me two days ago.  I have been having suicidal ideations (is that the right word?) to the extent that, yesterday evening I sorted out a length of hose, put it in the car and sat at my puter and wrote a note to leave on the passenger seat. I was just printing the note when a friend called around to visit and ask if he could stay the night on the couch. He has been worried about me. he is taking medication for various things and over the last two weeks I’ve been getting a little Oxezapam off him. I took 75mg last night and the urgency went away. We don’t talk about my feelings a hell of a lot, I have trouble with that face to face (and if/when I top myself I don’t want anyone panicing, trying to stop me). I have a good friend who I’ve never met in person who I have an email relationship with and she knows *exactly* how I feel. She has been very supportive.  This isn’t just one of those "My girlfriend left me and I want to kill myself" situations. My life basically sucks and I credit her (to myself) with keeping me alive these last two years. I’ve been sad and had suicidal t houghts ever since I was a teenager, and a lot more than most.  I honestly don’t feel I have a lot to live for but don’t really want to upset family etc. I’m gonna try to give it a go and have come to the conclusion that I’ll probably need to be medicated for the rest of my life, especially if I want it to be more than a few days. The doctor gave me some Oxezapam today as well as the Paxil, I told her I want something that works now, tonight. She would only give me a little though, 30 x 10 mg and told me only 3 per day.  Basically I s’pose I wondered if anyone has any suggestions for medication. I’m in New Zealand so I may not have the same medications available to me as people in other countries. So yeah, anyone have any ideas? If I’m gonna be in the same mood as I’ve been in for the last 40 years for the rest of my life then I’m not sure I want to go on. Thanks for reading this, — ~misfit~

Response:

Hi and Welcome to the ng,  Hi all, just thought I’d introduce myself, been lurking a day or two. I suffer from chronic depression and have just started a course of Paxil (20mg day).

snipped… There are many ADs available. The Paxil will take about 3 weeks to work. I hope you feel better soon. Peace, Lynda

Response:

Question:

Have you tried effexor instead of prozac, although it’s a prescription drug? According to rxlist.com… "Preclinical studies have shown that venlafaxine [effexor] and its active metabolite, O-desmethylvenlafaxine (ODV), are potent inhibitors of neuronal serotonin and norepinephrine reuptake and weak inhibitors of dopamine reuptake"

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve tried lots of antidepressants, and about the only one I can tolerate is Prozac.  However, it’s not very effective. I’ve tried adding lithium and thyroxine, neither of which helped much. Lately there’s been talk here about noradrenergic and dopaminergic effects of antidepressants.  Prozac only works on the serotonin receptors.  Is there any other effective over the counter or other medications that would augment Prozac, that anyone can think of?

Response:

Thanks AMM and CyberMistress. Yes I tried Effexor – and may try it again – but it knocked me out too much for me to know what it was doing to my mood. I’ll try the 100mg of B6 and other B vitamins. Does anyone find that Omega-3 oil really helps with their mood?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – John as you know I been suffering depression pretty bad since I stopped the Paxil and none of the AD’s I tried in the year and 4 months since did good things upon trying.. so I been going without. Well, I been trying the vitamin, minerals fish oils  with mixed success…some alleviation of PMS symptoms but nothing for depression.. The thing is not enough alleviation of PMS  so I was whining to a friend who told me his wife used 100mg of B6  to counteract PMS… What did I have to lose… I increased it to 100mg and I shown a positive response…out of the fog I been in the entire time since I stopped the Paxil…greyness gone…  less irritable,  though more BLACK and WHITE thinking cause I am more sure of myself. Anyway, if the Prozac works fairly well, why not supplement with the OMEGA 3 and b complex vitamins…see if they help… I’ve tried lots of antidepressants, and about the only one I can tolerate is Prozac.  However, it’s not very effective. I’ve tried adding lithium and thyroxine, neither of which helped much. Lately there’s been talk here about noradrenergic and dopaminergic effects of antidepressants.  Prozac only works on the serotonin receptors.  Is there any other effective over the counter or other medications that would augment Prozac, that anyone can think of?

Response:

I’ve tried lots of antidepressants, and about the only one I can tolerate is Prozac.  However, it’s not very effective. I’ve tried adding lithium and thyroxine, neither of which helped much. Lately there’s been talk here about noradrenergic and dopaminergic effects of antidepressants.  Prozac only works on the serotonin receptors.  Is there any other effective over the counter or other medications that would augment Prozac, that anyone can think of?

Response:

 I’ve tried lots of antidepressants, and about the only one I can tolerate is Prozac.  However, it’s not very effective. I’ve tried adding lithium and thyroxine, neither of which helped much. Lately there’s been talk here about noradrenergic and dopaminergic effects of antidepressants.  Prozac only works on the serotonin receptors.  ARE there any other effective over the counter or other medications that would augment Prozac, that anyone can think of?

Response:

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I recently went off my Zoloft which I have been taking on/off (mostly on) for a couple of years.  I have been at 100 mg for the past six or so months.  I only had side effects in the beginning but they all went away except the lack of libido which I can deal with.  The primary reason I am going off it is that I jsut can’t afford it anymore and am hoping that my depression will not return as bad as before.  Right now I seem emotionally stable   (Not to worry, if it appears that I really *need* to go back on it I will).  I have been off about 4-5 days and am having dizzy spells like crazy.  When I stand up to fast or turn my head too fast.  I know I shouldn’t have gone off cold turkey but hell, the money ran out at the same time the script did.  I am also in one of those situations where I make too much to qualify for any type of medication assistance yet not enough to pay for them.  Yeah, the middle class often gets the shaft too. Anyhow…I digress.  Is this dizziness just possibly a withdrawal thing from the Zoloft and if so, how long can I expect it to go on?  It is quite

annoying. Probably is from withdrawal. When I went off 100 mg of Zoloft cold turkey, I was dizzy 24 hours a day for about 4 weeks. It was then I finally gave in and started taking a very low dose with the goal of weaning myself off gradually. Maybe you can get one more scrip of a low dose from your doc, and wean yourself off? Good luck. Cate

Response:

I recently went off my Zoloft which I have been taking on/off (mostly on) for a couple of years.  I have been at 100 mg for the past six or so months.  I only had side effects in the beginning but they all went away except the lack of libido which I can deal with.  The primary reason I am going off it is that I jsut can’t afford it anymore and am hoping that my depression will not return as bad as before.  Right now I seem emotionally stable   (Not to worry, if it appears that I really *need* to go back on it I will).  I have been off about 4-5 days and am having dizzy spells like crazy.  When I stand up to fast or turn my head too fast.  I know I shouldn’t have gone off cold turkey but hell, the money ran out at the same time the script did.  I am also in one of those situations where I make too much to qualify for any type of medication assistance yet not enough to pay for them.  Yeah, the middle class often gets the shaft too. Anyhow…I digress.  Is this dizziness just possibly a withdrawal thing from the Zoloft and if so, how long can I expect it to go on?  It is quite annoying. SWC

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – /Hi anyone and/or everyone. /My name is Chuck and I have (I guess) Dystonia… It SUCKS!!! /I agree, Chuck, Dystonia does Suck:) /The thing is… Do I really have it or something else? /I have tremors of the; Head, trunk, arms, hands, legs, feet; /basically my whole body is shaky at one point or another. Mainly the /tremors are in my neck and hands. I have constant twitching. It also /seems the /more I do physically the worse the tremors get. It makes /walking difficult at imes or doing too much of anything. I’ve had all above symptoms but by stages. Now I am left with essential tremor and it’s annoying. /I have other problems my old /Neuropsych couldn’t pin point to anything. I have memory problems; /long and short term. I have headaches 24/7, with severe ones that I /take meds for. I have very poor eyesight now do to the tremors(?) /(bi-optical sight. One eye is near-sighted, the other far-sighted). I can related to long term memory lost, it is due to treatment for depression twenty years ago. Some of the prescriptions  you are taking are probably the cause of your memory lost, Chuck. It’s a common complaint with us on a.s.d. /the Botox shots. It did nothing… My Doc retired last year and /haven’t seen anyone new yet… just was wonder if I could get any / / opinions this way. You should write to the DMRF, Chuck, and ask them for the name of a competent neurologist, one who has an office in your city. Address, the Dystonia Medical Research Foundation, /BTW: I’m 33y/o, married, 2 kids and 1 one the way… which in itself /should be interesting… I stay at home, recieve S.S.D.I., been /trying to find ways to support family with this condition. /Thanks for your time…. Chuck Regards, Gene

Thanks for your input Gene. Yes a good Doc is hard to find. I went through the state and supposedly I had the best Doc in Wisconsin. She was stumped, along with other colleags. That was at a medical college in WI. About the memory loss/depression drugs theory: I’ve asked the Doc about that in the past. Also about the drugs as a kid; Legal and illegal. Also asked about the many severe head injuries I’ve had in the past, and she says none of those things are a factor. I’ve had 2 or 3 Neurophsych evaluations and they only have gotten worse. I still think it could be lots of factors in my life that may or maynot have caused the tremors. But that’s not my concern. I just want the damb shit to go away. I can’t take much more. DMRF. Thanks for your thought… Chuck

Response:

I sure wish that you could live a day or two in my shoes ; as I really think that your suffering needs a break  Like Gene, I do know the pain with this condition .To Bonnie and Chuck I hope that there is an answer just around the bend, I’m sure there is an answer, just hold on and take it one step at a time .Sometimes finding the right doctor is half the battle.Never give up, as tomorrow is a new day .       gary:

Response:

Welcome, Chuck! I agree with Gene about finding a good dr. (movement disorder specialist) through the DMRF.  You need a definite diagnosis (did I just say that?! ha..ha…).   I say that, Chuck, because many of us with this disorder went many years without a diagnosis.  Alot of drs. have not heard of it.

Yes, that’s so true. It took me a few years before someone realized that something wasn’t mentaly wrong with me. It wasn’t just stress, nor depression. The tremors only get worse when those 2 happen. Nope, just a darn brain disorder (dystonia). Isn’t that all the same area anyway…. That’s why some old friends think I’m just nuts or faking it all… whatever… I wish. I understand about your tremors.  I also have them although not constant now due to the meds. I am on.  I have had generalized dystonia since I was a child; now 43.  That means it affects more than one part of my body.  I am on SSD.  That was hard to give up a career so early in life.

Yes I understand about giving up things in life. I have a degree that is of no use anymore. I can’t run and play with my kids anymore(I cheat on that when I’m having a better day… ) I’ve given up going in public too much; given up having great sex with the wife…. … ah…. never mind, just babbling…. Hope things work out for you and let us know more about yourself. Good luck and take care. Bonnie in TX Hi anyone and/or everyone. My name is Chuck and I have (I guess) Dystonia… It SUCKS!!!

Thanx Bonnie in TX(the longhorn state eh) below here is for general public viewing pleasure… what….. oh… BTW, to those who seem to think I need herbal or health stuff to heal; don’t bother wasting my time, nor yours. I hate any type of nonsence pedaling… you know who I mean, yes you… the one who e-mailed me on that URL to go to. No Thanx

Response:

I sure wish that you could live a day or two in my shoes ; as I really think that your suffering needs a break  Like Gene, I do know the pain with this condition .To Bonnie and Chuck I hope that there is an answer just around the bend, I’m sure there is an answer, just hold on and take it one step at a time .Sometimes finding the right doctor is half the battle.Never give up, as tomorrow is a new day .       gary:

Thanx for the thought gary. Sure there are answers… THe experimental brain stimulator thingies they are doing lately. The ones that shock some part of the lower brain to stop the tremors. but it’s only worked in a few cases I’ve heard of and simple ones at that. But yes… I understand…. You are right tomorrow is a new day. They go by so quick for me these days. As I just do the few things that I can still somewhat do… If I don’t forget…  :)

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Chuck nice to hear from you.    I myself have never had this type of thing happen to me . Head snaps yes but this no . I write mainly on my own experiences with S.T  .       It is my hope that some one will read this and reply .    Be careful of the word dystonia . I suggest you look up its meaning . Dystonia is very wide ranging and includes many things .What I have is in reality SPASMODIC TORTICOLLIS (CERVICAL DYSTONIA).Yet I am said to have simply DYSTONIA.    gary:  P.S I WILL do my best to find info if others do not answer. Hi anyone and/or everyone. My name is Chuck and I have (I guess) Dystonia… It SUCKS!!! The thing is… Do I really have it or something else? I have tremors of the; Head, trunk, arms, hands, legs, feet; basically my whole body is shaky at one point or another. Mainly the tremors are in my neck and hands. I have constant twitching.

Yes, yes… the meaning… Oh how I’ve looked up and tried studying dystonia, tremors, CP, and the such. I’ve come to the conclusion no one realy knows what they are doing in or with the brain. I’ve been classified and reclassified and still they don’t know for sure… They are all befuddeled… is that a word? whatever… yes it is a strange world; the brain… Anyway… thanx for your input. Chuck

Response:

Hi Chuck, My husband was diagnosed yesterday with this – he’s never had any problem before – Neuro Dr. thinks related to medication reaction?? Only thing is he hasn’t taken anything unusual or different recently??   We’ll see, I guess. Gave him 50 cc’s Benedryl – sent us home.  Okay since. He said his throat started being real sore, but not like you would have usually with cold,  then the next day when he tried to work on cabinets in shop, his mouth, bottom jaw, started drawing, so much it was painful and he couldn’t open his mouth or hardly talk. Said he would lie down and it would cease somewhat.  Get up start working, happened again and again.   He is 46 yrs. old, sees well,  and no other tremors.  Never know what kind of condition we can get in, do we?  Will keep you in my prayers as well. Take care, Mrs. Bond

Response:

CHUCK HANG IN THERE, THERE WILL BE A CURE ONE DAY AND GOD I HOPE IT IS SOON. THIS ISN’T EVEN LIVING.  SOMETIMES I FEEL LIKE GIVING UP

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What does the Botox do for you or anyone? It had NO effect on me… bad or good. Used to be the life of parties huh? I can relate… Yes I too had to give up work and many other things in life. Just sucks huh… What’s even worse is I hate to not keep busy; which is hard when I can do so little now days… I have found something that reducess my stress levels and some tremors and such but alas it is not legal in my state yet… I only know of 5 US states allowing it for medical use. I still have the bad days, but it helps me on the really tuff days. Chuck A young lady mentioned that Botox injections were not working for her.  Her sister advised her to change doctor for a more experienced one.  She is most satisfied with Botoxin now and wouldn’t do without it.

I know… I still have to find a new Doc, since my last one left the business. Anyone know any good ones in S.E. Wisconsin? S.T. flares up for five/six years, that has been my experience with the syndrome, and the pain one experience during this period  indescribable.  Then, it slowly dissipates and your quality of life becomes  much better. Like a bad storm, S.T.’s fury alleviates on its own.

I’m sorry… S.T.??? I didn’t right that one down. My memory is terible… Dissipates??? I’ve had my disability for almost all my life… It was just almost 4 years ago now they got much worse. I have good days and bad days; then I have them really shitty ones, where I could blow the world up just to end the pain. But alas… today is a not too bad a day… thank goodness… best day in over a month!!! In the meantime, you could try Baclofen, Tens (S.P.?), hot packs, hot baths, and anything to take your mind away from the pain, say a musical instrument, hobby, etc.

Tens? Have tried Baclofen… yes did the hot bath the other night… helped somewhat. The weather was nice today(58 degrees), so I opened up the windows, grabbed some fresh air, then turned on my amp and played my guitar… felt nice for once… (just wish I could remember the notes better nowadays…) Don’t be shy to talk with us, fight with us,<<g laugh with us and cry with us. Gene

Oh, If I don’t forget about the disability; I’ll be here for a while…   Chuck

Response:

CHUCK I HAVE DYSTONIA TOO AND I HAD TO QUIT WORK.  I DON’T KNOW HOW YOU ARE  MAKING IT.  I GET 3 BOTTLES OF BOTOX EVERY 3 MONTHS AND AM HORRIBLE IN ABOUT  3 WEEKS.  THIS HORRIBLE DISEASE CAUSES SO MUCH PAIN, I AM MISERABLE AND TO THINK I USED TO BE THE LIFE OF THE PARTY. TORTI 24 @  AOL.COM

Response:

So good of you to answer with an experience thanks .I was 45 when I got S T             gary: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Chuck, My husband was diagnosed yesterday with this – he’s never had any problem

Response:

Has anyone ever experienced a loss of balance, difficulty in standing motionless, difficulty in – for example – standing unsupported in a queue in a shopping mall – since getting dystonia? and if so has this ever been seen as part of dystonia or something unrelated? thanks chris

Hi Chris, It’s been a while.  How are you? The loss of balance because of Dystonia is a subject that’s been discussed by a.s.d. members who have this problem.  I suspect they will be contacting you shortly, as soon as their server picks up your post. Regards, Gene

Response:

YES; I have, but I usually feel it is because of other things. Stuffed up and a cold, over tired ,fever, ear infection ,sinus infection, ect, but this is not to say it is not dystonia related .In this case I would say you should look at other things first as hearing is your balance (correct?).     gary: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Has anyone ever experienced a loss of balance, difficulty in standing motionless, difficulty in – for example – standing unsupported in a queue in a shopping mall – since getting dystonia? and if so has this ever been seen as part of dystonia or something unrelated? thanks chris

Response:

Has anyone ever experienced a loss of balance, difficulty in standing motionless, difficulty in – for example – standing unsupported in a queue in a shopping mall – since getting dystonia? and if so has this ever been seen as part of dystonia or something unrelated? thanks chris

Response:

Welcome, Chuck! I agree with Gene about finding a good dr. (movement disorder specialist) through the DMRF.  You need a definite diagnosis (did I just say that?! ha..ha…).   I say that, Chuck, because many of us with this disorder went many years without a diagnosis.  Alot of drs. have not heard of it. I understand about your tremors.  I also have them although not constant now due to the meds. I am on.  I have had generalized dystonia since I was a child; now 43.  That means it affects more than one part of my body.  I am on SSD.  That was hard to give up a career so early in life. Hope things work out for you and let us know more about yourself. Good luck and take care. Bonnie in TX – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi anyone and/or everyone. My name is Chuck and I have (I guess) Dystonia… It SUCKS!!! The thing is… Do I really have it or something else? I have tremors of the; Head, trunk, arms, hands, legs, feet; basically my whole body is shaky at one point or another. Mainly the tremors are in my neck and hands. I have constant twitching. It also seems the more I do physically the worse the tremors get. It makes walking difficult at times or doing too much of anything. I have other problems my old Neuropsych couldn’t pin point to anything. I have memory problems; long and short term. I have headaches 24/7, with severe ones that I take meds for. I have very poor eyesight now do to the tremors(?) (bi-optical sight. One eye is near-sighted, the other far-sighted). I used to have a very high I.Q., now I’m told I’m borderline retarded in most areas. Mainly I think because of the memory problems. I have equalibrium problems also. I’ve always been shaky since I was a kid, but the condition got severe a few years ago when I started having severe seisure type tremors. Which I still get on occasion. Where all my insides and outside seemed to tighten up and twitch sort of thing. I knew what was going on around me but couldn’t talk or open my eyes. Anyway… I’ve had ALL the tests they have(everything comes back normal, whatever that is), plus I’ve about tried every med they could think of. Yes even the Botox shots. It did nothing… My Doc retired last year and haven’t seen anyone new yet… just was wonder if I could get any opinions this way. BTW: I’m 33y/o, married, 2 kids and 1 one the way… which in itself should be interesting… I stay at home, recieve S.S.D.I., been trying to find ways to support family with this condition. Thanks for your time…. Chuck

Response:

/Hi anyone and/or everyone. /My name is Chuck and I have (I guess) Dystonia… It SUCKS!!! /I agree, Chuck, Dystonia does Suck:) /The thing is… Do I really have it or something else? /I have tremors of the; Head, trunk, arms, hands, legs, feet; /basically my whole body is shaky at one point or another. Mainly the /tremors are in my neck and hands. I have constant twitching. It also /seems the /more I do physically the worse the tremors get. It makes /walking difficult at imes or doing too much of anything. I’ve had all above symptoms but by stages. Now I am left with essential tremor and it’s annoying. /I have other problems my old /Neuropsych couldn’t pin point to anything. I have memory problems; /long and short term. I have headaches 24/7, with severe ones that I /take meds for. I have very poor eyesight now do to the tremors(?) /(bi-optical sight. One eye is near-sighted, the other far-sighted). I can related to long term memory lost, it is due to treatment for depression twenty years ago. Some of the prescriptions  you are taking are probably the cause of your memory lost, Chuck.   It’s a common complaint with us on a.s.d.   /the Botox shots. It did nothing… My Doc retired last year and /haven’t seen anyone new yet… just was wonder if I could get any / / opinions this way. You should write to the DMRF, Chuck, and ask them for the name of a competent neurologist, one who has an office in your city. Address, the Dystonia Medical Research Foundation, /BTW: I’m 33y/o, married, 2 kids and 1 one the way… which in itself /should be interesting… I stay at home, recieve S.S.D.I., been /trying to find ways to support family with this condition. /Thanks for your time…. Chuck Regards, Gene

Response:

Chuck nice to hear from you.    I myself have never had this type of thing happen to me . Head snaps yes but this no . I write mainly on my own experiences with S.T  .       It is my hope that some one will read this and reply .    Be careful of the word dystonia . I suggest you look up its meaning . Dystonia is very wide ranging and includes many things .What I have is in reality SPASMODIC TORTICOLLIS (CERVICAL DYSTONIA).Yet I am said to have simply DYSTONIA.    gary:  P.S I WILL do my best to find info if others do not answer. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi anyone and/or everyone. My name is Chuck and I have (I guess) Dystonia… It SUCKS!!! The thing is… Do I really have it or something else? I have tremors of the; Head, trunk, arms, hands, legs, feet; basically my whole body is shaky at one point or another. Mainly the tremors are in my neck and hands. I have constant twitching.

Response:

Hi anyone and/or everyone. My name is Chuck and I have (I guess) Dystonia… It SUCKS!!! The thing is… Do I really have it or something else? I have tremors of the; Head, trunk, arms, hands, legs, feet; basically my whole body is shaky at one point or another. Mainly the tremors are in my neck and hands. I have constant twitching. It also seems the more I do physically the worse the tremors get. It makes walking difficult at times or doing too much of anything. I have other problems my old Neuropsych couldn’t pin point to anything. I have memory problems; long and short term. I have headaches 24/7, with severe ones that I take meds for. I have very poor eyesight now do to the tremors(?) (bi-optical sight. One eye is near-sighted, the other far-sighted). I used to have a very high I.Q., now I’m told I’m borderline retarded in most areas. Mainly I think because of the memory problems. I have equalibrium problems also. I’ve always been shaky since I was a kid, but the condition got severe a few years ago when I started having severe seisure type tremors. Which I still get on occasion. Where all my insides and outside seemed to tighten up and twitch sort of thing. I knew what was going on around me but couldn’t talk or open my eyes. Anyway… I’ve had ALL the tests they have(everything comes back normal, whatever that is), plus I’ve about tried every med they could think of. Yes even the Botox shots. It did nothing… My Doc retired last year and haven’t seen anyone new yet… just was wonder if I could get any opinions this way. BTW: I’m 33y/o, married, 2 kids and 1 one the way… which in itself should be interesting… I stay at home, recieve S.S.D.I., been trying to find ways to support family with this condition. Thanks for your time…. Chuck

Response:

Has anyone ever experienced a loss of balance, difficulty in standing motionless, difficulty in – for example – standing unsupported in a queue in a shopping mall – since getting dystonia? and if so has this ever been seen as part of dystonia or something unrelated? thanks chris Hi Chris, It’s been a while.  How are you?

Not good. Balance probs which means that as a teacher, my job is on the line…. The loss of balance because of Dystonia is a subject that’s been discussed by a.s.d. members who have this problem.  I suspect they will be contacting you shortly, as soon as their server picks up your post. Regards, Gene

Response:

Now here is one I can say happens to me . I always feel it is because i’m too close .Well maybe not . Maybe I walk crooked .Got me thinking         gary:

 when I am walking beside someone I constantly run – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – into them.  I just walk crooked!     Bonnie in TX T

Response:

Sue have you emptied your mail box lately a RETURNED letter said it was full.     gary: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Chris, I have balance problems exactly like Cathy has.  When I go from sitting to standing and when I am walking beside someone I constantly run into them.  I just walk crooked!    Yes, I do believe it is the dystonia.  But, now put me on a horse and watch me go.   How do you stay on a horse?  Balance!   Weird, huh? Bonnie in TX – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – writes: Has anyone ever experienced a loss of balance, difficulty in standing motionless, difficulty in – for example – standing unsupported in a queue in a shopping mall – since getting dystonia? and if so has this ever been seen as part of dystonia or something unrelated? thanks chris

Response:

Has anyone ever experienced a loss of balance, difficulty in standing motionless, difficulty in – for example – standing unsupported in a queue in a shopping mall – since getting dystonia? and if so has this ever been seen as part of dystonia or something unrelated? thanks chris

I can say yes to all… Not just standing up, but also just standing. That is why when I walk, I walk with the aid of useing my toes for balance. That is why I don’t do much walking. Some days I use my cane, when ever I know I’m going to be walking any distance I rent a wheel chair. It’s just too hard otherwise. My old  Neuro said yes this is because of Dystonia. Hope this help…   Chuck

Response:

I have some balance problems which are neurological in nature ("dystonic" in an extremely loose application of the word, I guess) and some which are probably inner-ear related.  Sigh. Amy. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Has anyone ever experienced a loss of balance, difficulty in standing motionless, difficulty in – for example – standing unsupported in a queue in a shopping mall – since getting dystonia? and if so has this ever been seen as part of dystonia or something unrelated? thanks chris

Response:

Chris, I can not find the study off hand but let me try to refresh your memory.    I wrote you about a balance study that was being done in the UK.  You wrote me that very day and said that was where you were having your botox that day!  It was when you went through London during Princess Di"s funeral…. Maybe something is still going on with this study.   I  think you could ask if anybody that has dystonia does not lose their balance and you might get a more definitive answer<G Sue

Response:

writes: Has anyone ever experienced a loss of balance, difficulty in standing motionless, difficulty in – for example – standing unsupported in a queue in a shopping mall – since getting dystonia? and if so has this ever been seen as part of dystonia or something unrelated? thanks chris

Chris, When I first got dystonia the balance problems began. It has gotten worse, which the neuro. had noticed. It is dystonia related.  I have had this for over 10 yrs.   Standing up, it may take 2 to 3 times in getting up from a sitting position to standing.  I did that a long time ago, then it stopped and now its back again.   Standing motionless…yes and no to that one. Its hard to answer as it depends what is going on around me.  The mall can be bad due to tile going from an all white area to a dark area, which sets things off. Majority of time, I would say yes to some degree of a balance problem going from sitting to standing.  But I have been doing this at the mall. When walking with Ted, I will tend to walk at an angle …rather than straight ahead, in the middle of the area, I will walk off the path and end up against the side of a store. (kind of hard to explain) Hope that helps. Cathy

Response:

Question:

SOUNDS LIKE LUPUS TO ME

Response:

Wow, what kind of dr.’s are you seeing?  The ANA is not a definite deciding issue of Lupus, but the butterfly rash, that is major…I also have rash’s, they call mine vasculitis, never had the butterfly tho… Linda

Response:

Is it possible to have Lupus yet have a negative test result?  

Response:

On Thu, 4 Jun 1998 23:40:43 -0600, btl…@webtv.net (Tracey Lowe) wrote:

Is it possible to have Lupus yet have a negative test result?  

Hi Tracey, Yes it is possible.  There are several tests to help diagnose Lupus. None of them are entirely conclusive.  The ANA test can be low or negative even when one has lupus.  The dsDNA test, when it is present, is highly specific for Lupus, however it is only positive in a portion of the Lupus population.  In "mild" cases or in remission, any of these tests can be negative or very low.  Most docs will not give a diagnosis of SLE if these test are low even if one has many of the more telling symptoms.  However, it’s important that if you or your doc suspect connective tissue disease that these tests be repeated at least once a year – more if the patient begins to note an increase of symptoms or severity. In a person previously diagnosed with SLE, drug treatments or just the luck of remission, can cause negative test results and this sometimes confuses both doctor and patient. It is also possible that errors are made in the testing procedure. Again, this indicates a need to be retested in the future. kc

Response:

Tracey Lowe <btl…@webtv.net

wrote in article

<6l80cr$on…@newsd-123.bryant.webtv.net

… Is it possible to have Lupus yet have a negative test result?  

I didn’t know there was a lupus specific test that could be done.  I thought that there were a list of symptoms and tests results that are used for diagnosis criteria.  What test are you referring to that was negative? Judith

Response:

Tracey, you can have a negative ANA test and have lupus and you can have a posiive ANA and not have lupus.  Lupus is typically diagnosed by a combination of symptoms that have been determined by the American Arthritis Foundaton.  So your doctor looks at your overall condition to make a diagnosis. Symptoms they look for are joint pain, sensitivity to sunlight, malar (butterfly) rash on your face, discoid lesions, mouth sores, low grade fever, possible organ involvement…    :(  sorry, that’s all I can think of right now.  Many of us have what we fondly call brain fog and after a full day at work, just can’t seem to think. Hang in there, Margaret

Response:

Thanks for your response.  I develop a large butterfly rash on my face and will get spots on my upper body (some on my legs, If I had shorts on) within 5 min. of being in the sun without sunblock.  I have had knee and ankle joint pains for 15 years however, my rhumatoid test is negative.  I have had 5 biopsies and blood work done 3 times.  The docs I have went to cannot tell me what I have.  Lupus has been the guess however my test all have a negative ANA.  So they just keep testing. The rashes have been going on for 6 years now and are getting larger and more sun sensitive every year, and they take a week or more to disapear. I hope to find out what it is soon!!!   :]  Does this sound farmilliar to anyone?

Response:

I too have the rash, and I never ever go in the sun without loads of protection! To do this is only asking for trouble, in more ways then one. I was diagnosed at 26 and am now 47. As time goes by I get more and more sun sensative. I have to wear sunglasses all year round, and the same with sunscreen. Please be careful. God Bless and Good Health……….Kathy Tracey Lowe wrote in message <6li2fl$90…@newsd-123.bryant.webtv.net

…

Thanks for your response.  I develop a large butterfly rash on my face and will get spots on my upper body (some on my legs, If I had shorts on) within 5 min. of being in the sun without sunblock.  I have had knee and ankle joint pains for 15 years however, my rhumatoid test is negative.  I have had 5 biopsies and blood work done 3 times.  The docs I have went to cannot tell me what I have.  Lupus has been the guess however my test all have a negative ANA.  So they just keep testing. The rashes have been going on for 6 years now and are getting larger and more sun sensitive every year, and they take a week or more to disapear. I hope to find out what it is soon!!!   :]  Does this sound farmilliar to anyone?

Response: