Question:

My  12 year old son was the same way, our first Dr. had this kids on 5 different things, 3 and 3 times a day – no adult would want to do that, so why should I expect a 12 year old to?  We changed Drs. last fall.  I explained to him the hassle of getting Aaron to take his meds.  We are now on just Pulmicort and Rhinocort once a day with saline nose spray a few times a day and Claritin as needed. what a difference in compliance!  I don’t pester anymore, life is much nicer in our household – no more crabby mom and dad and a kid who actually takes his meds on schedule.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello Sally, My son has been guilty of not taking his meds daily, also.  He is 16 and one would think he would be responsible!  I always note the day he starts a new inhaler and if it isn’t pretty much empty when it should be, then I know he’s not been taking his meds.  His doctor is very good about discussing the need for taking meds on a regular basis.  I think part of the problem is that since his asthma is in good control (the good part) he tends to ignore the importance of preventative meds. Good luck in your campaign to quit smoking!  It’s a tough battle (I quit in 1998) but well worth it! Patrice I took my 12 yr old son to an appointment with a Pulmonologist yesterday. As of the one visit, I liked her no-nonsense attitude.  After reviewing his breathing tests, current meds and recent breathing tests from the Allergist’s office, she flat out told my Son she didn’t trust his age group as they tend to lie about taking their meds.  Turns out she was right on the money. He’s only been taking the Serevent and Pulmicort about half the time, although he does take the Singulair and allergy meds as he should.  She gave him a good lecture about what being on Prednisone too often would do for him, that he’s already a severe asthmatic and isn’t doing himself any good, etc.  He didn’t deny it and finally admitted it.  Seems for 113% effort, his bottom line was only 70%.  She let him know that the meds he’s on should be working great for him.  Feels that if he takes it all as he should then next winter he should be able to participate in ski club like he wanted to this year.  At least there’s no flying allergens on a snow-covered slope!!! The only changes she made to his meds were she ordered him to take him in front of us parents each time, to stay on the nebulized Albuterol for another two weeks, and added Zantac to work along with the Prilosec for his stomach. Today he saw the Family Dr and tomorrow he sees the Allergist.  Within the next few weeks he’ll be seeing a Pediatric Gastro since it’s pretty much felt he has GERD…which isn’t surprising considering his asthma level and meds. The dog leaves Saturday afternoon…being returned to the shelter we got her from three years ago as a small puppy. The cat is in the works as soon as we can reach DH’s niece to arrange the hand-off.  DH will be looking into what wood stuff he wants for Son’s room floor. Here’s the Big One…DH and I have Rx’s for Zyban (and for me the patch too since I’ve been smoking for over 20 years). — Sally Avery

Response:

Glad to see I’m not alone on this.  True, even adults don’t like to take meds all the time…let alone so many and frequently.  Why should a kid? Regardless how intelligent and responsible he is….DS is still only 12. The Family Dr and the Allergist didn’t lecture him as the Pulmonologist did. Basicially, they let him know they were glad he was out of the hospital and okay now…and hopefully he has learned why needs to take his meds unless he wants to experience a close encounter again. Sally Avery

Hello Sally, My son has been guilty of not taking his meds daily, also.  He is 16 and one would think he would be responsible!  I always note the day he starts a

new

Response:

I believe that as he begins to take his meds as he should, eventually we may be able to cut some things down….hopefully.  Thanks for the message.  It helps to know others have same problems. Sally Aver

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My  12 year old son was the same way, our first Dr. had this kids on 5 different things, 3 and 3 times a day – no adult would want to do that, so why should I expect a 12 year old to?  We changed Drs. last fall.  I

Response:

The most important part is your not smoking.   Hard! Hard! Hard! to do and I wish only you the best and may your willpower be strong enough to overcome the addiction.  I was very happy 19 years ago when I quit cold turkey. I had a nightmare about being in a hospital and the Doc telling me I had emphysema.  I woke the next day and have not smoked since, however; this last year my doc made my dream come true (50% FEV1).  I feel that by quitting when I did at 33 that I am much better off with my lungs that had I not. Good Luck and keep the faith!!! Tim Washington State

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I took my 12 yr old son to an appointment with a Pulmonologist yesterday. As of the one visit, I liked her no-nonsense attitude.  After reviewing his breathing tests, current meds and recent breathing tests from the Allergist’s office, she flat out told my Son she didn’t trust his age group as they tend to lie about taking their meds.  Turns out she was right on the money. He’s only been taking the Serevent and Pulmicort about half the time, although he does take the Singulair and allergy meds as he should.  She gave him a good lecture about what being on Prednisone too often would do for him, that he’s already a severe asthmatic and isn’t doing himself any good, etc.  He didn’t deny it and finally admitted it.  Seems for 113% effort, his bottom line was only 70%.  She let him know that the meds he’s on should be working great for him.  Feels that if he takes it all as he should then next winter he should be able to participate in ski club like he wanted to this year.  At least there’s no flying allergens on a snow-covered slope!!! The only changes she made to his meds were she ordered him to take him in front of us parents each time, to stay on the nebulized Albuterol for another two weeks, and added Zantac to work along with the Prilosec for his stomach. Today he saw the Family Dr and tomorrow he sees the Allergist.  Within the next few weeks he’ll be seeing a Pediatric Gastro since it’s pretty much felt he has GERD…which isn’t surprising considering his asthma level and meds. The dog leaves Saturday afternoon…being returned to the shelter we got her from three years ago as a small puppy. The cat is in the works as soon as we can reach DH’s niece to arrange the hand-off.  DH will be looking into what wood stuff he wants for Son’s room floor. Here’s the Big One…DH and I have Rx’s for Zyban (and for me the patch too since I’ve been smoking for over 20 years). — Sally Avery

Response:

Hello Sally, My son has been guilty of not taking his meds daily, also.  He is 16 and one would think he would be responsible!

You do have to watch these kids.When they have something chronic like asthma, I think they just want to try and ignore it sometimes. My son was like that . I put my daughter’s meds out for her even though she is 16 so she can’t "forget". The scary thing is I have to watch to see that she doesn’t decide to take an extra dose of something when she feels she isn’t getting relief. This has happened before(luckily not harmful) and I never would have dreamed she would be so careless. Hopefully now she does understand the seriousness of this.

Response:

I took my 12 yr old son to an appointment with a Pulmonologist yesterday. As of the one visit, I liked her no-nonsense attitude.  After reviewing his breathing tests, current meds and recent breathing tests from the Allergist’s office, she flat out told my Son she didn’t trust his age group as they tend to lie about taking their meds.  Turns out she was right on the money. He’s only been taking the Serevent and Pulmicort about half the time, although he does take the Singulair and allergy meds as he should.  She gave him a good lecture about what being on Prednisone too often would do for him, that he’s already a severe asthmatic and isn’t doing himself any good, etc.  He didn’t deny it and finally admitted it.  Seems for 113% effort, his bottom line was only 70%.  She let him know that the meds he’s on should be working great for him.  Feels that if he takes it all as he should then next winter he should be able to participate in ski club like he wanted to this year.  At least there’s no flying allergens on a snow-covered slope!!! The only changes she made to his meds were she ordered him to take him in front of us parents each time, to stay on the nebulized Albuterol for another two weeks, and added Zantac to work along with the Prilosec for his stomach. Today he saw the Family Dr and tomorrow he sees the Allergist.  Within the next few weeks he’ll be seeing a Pediatric Gastro since it’s pretty much felt he has GERD…which isn’t surprising considering his asthma level and meds. The dog leaves Saturday afternoon…being returned to the shelter we got her from three years ago as a small puppy. The cat is in the works as soon as we can reach DH’s niece to arrange the hand-off.  DH will be looking into what wood stuff he wants for Son’s room floor. Here’s the Big One…DH and I have Rx’s for Zyban (and for me the patch too since I’ve been smoking for over 20 years). — Sally Avery

Response:

Hello Sally, My son has been guilty of not taking his meds daily, also.  He is 16 and one would think he would be responsible!  I always note the day he starts a new inhaler and if it isn’t pretty much empty when it should be, then I know he’s not been taking his meds.  His doctor is very good about discussing the need for taking meds on a regular basis.  I think part of the problem is that since his asthma is in good control (the good part) he tends to ignore the importance of preventative meds. Good luck in your campaign to quit smoking!  It’s a tough battle (I quit in 1998) but well worth it! Patrice

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I took my 12 yr old son to an appointment with a Pulmonologist yesterday. As of the one visit, I liked her no-nonsense attitude.  After reviewing his breathing tests, current meds and recent breathing tests from the Allergist’s office, she flat out told my Son she didn’t trust his age group as they tend to lie about taking their meds.  Turns out she was right on the money. He’s only been taking the Serevent and Pulmicort about half the time, although he does take the Singulair and allergy meds as he should.  She gave him a good lecture about what being on Prednisone too often would do for him, that he’s already a severe asthmatic and isn’t doing himself any good, etc.  He didn’t deny it and finally admitted it.  Seems for 113% effort, his bottom line was only 70%.  She let him know that the meds he’s on should be working great for him.  Feels that if he takes it all as he should then next winter he should be able to participate in ski club like he wanted to this year.  At least there’s no flying allergens on a snow-covered slope!!! The only changes she made to his meds were she ordered him to take him in front of us parents each time, to stay on the nebulized Albuterol for another two weeks, and added Zantac to work along with the Prilosec for his stomach. Today he saw the Family Dr and tomorrow he sees the Allergist.  Within the next few weeks he’ll be seeing a Pediatric Gastro since it’s pretty much felt he has GERD…which isn’t surprising considering his asthma level and meds. The dog leaves Saturday afternoon…being returned to the shelter we got her from three years ago as a small puppy. The cat is in the works as soon as we can reach DH’s niece to arrange the hand-off.  DH will be looking into what wood stuff he wants for Son’s room floor. Here’s the Big One…DH and I have Rx’s for Zyban (and for me the patch too since I’ve been smoking for over 20 years). — Sally Avery

Response:

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     I was just reading through the FAQ about stacking.  I wasnt aware of the fact that ephedra was also used in asthma medications as i have been taking both for the past 6 weeks.  I take metabolife (12mg epedra per pill/6 a day) and i am also on Singulair, Pulmacort (steroid), and albuterol.  Does anyone know anything about these medications because i tried asking my doctor about them when they were prescibed but i am still a minor so he feels that he doesnt have time to explain things to me…  I just looked at the little pamphlet that came with metabolife and noticed that it shouldnt be taken with asthma medications containing ephedra.  I am the kind of person who hates doctor visits so when i have been getting dizzy spells lately when i stand up or sit up in bed i just sort of shrugged it off, i didnt connect it with the metabolife.  Ill try to get through to my doctor tomorrow but if anyone has any knowledge about these medications please let me know.  Thanks all Ryan

I’m the world’s biggest stacking fan, but COME OFF THE EPHEDRINE IMMEDIATELY!!! Don’t touch it until you’ve seen a _knowledgable_ physician. If your own doctor won’t give you the time to discuss this, then ask him politely but firmly to refer you to someone who _will_, as the level of care you are receiving is going to have serious lifestyle amd quality-of-life consequences for you. If he balks at the notion of a second opinion, ask him to recommend an alternative physician who has adequate time to spend on patients’ medical problems. If he sees you are serious (but don’t present all mouthy and right in his face, though,) he’ll find the time to help you rather than risk reputation problems and, tacitly, litigation Until you’ve sorted this out, you MUST leave the ephedrine alone. You’re setting yourself up for heart irregularity problems and thermal runaway.. another "boil in the bag" kid statistic we don’t need. I’m supposing that Pulmacart is purely steroid-based, in which case its just a local anti-inflammitory that basically stops your air-tracts swelling up and choking you. Unlikely to have a direct interactive problem with ephedrine.The other stuff, however may well have a similar beta-agonist effect as the ephedrine (or may even _contain_ ephedrine or pseudo-ephedrine, which _may_ push the dosage acting on your nervous system _way_ up. What this means is that you’ll notice certain obvious phyical effects. Body temperature and pulse go up, and pulse may become erratic. That is NOT good. You may get mild euphoria and feel like you’re having an adrenalin surge and you want to keep on dancing the night away… etc. Your kidneys will be ripping fluid out of you that you didn’t know you had and you’ll wasnt to live in a urinal. Your libido may go down too, temporarily. With a very high dosage, you’ll feel like you’ve not only got fresh batteries in your body, but they’re too high a voltage. The analogy holds good for exceeding design limits too. Everything runs faster but feels like it’s about to tear itself apart, and when you come down you’ll be knackered beyond belief. THAT is why the stuff is so damned difficult to get hold of, here in England and in a lot of US States.. a few cases of wild dehydrated overdose and these get reported as the normal usage pattern. The metabolife dosage, if that’s an ephedrine count, is average to high. If it’s ephedra, the herbal stuff from which natural ephedrine is extracted, then it’s pretty low. I don’t recall exactly but I think ephedra contains about 6% active ephedrine, so 15 mg ephedra is olmost homeopathically weak, and if that’s the case, shouldn’t be consequential re. any other medication. Check the label again, please. I suspect it’s 12Mg of refined stuff, not the herb. You’ll get a noticable stacking effect from 15mg once or twice a day, depemding on bodyweight. I weigh around 330 (210 when lean) and I can feel the efect of 20Mg… Six times is, I believe, a bit too too high for general use – unless you’re solidly muscled and in the gym for hours on end every day. You’ve reported some nasty-sounding side-effects and they are enough for you to stop using until you’ve taken advice relevant to your own medical history. If you get the go-ahead, I dount you’ll have any appetite at all, in the short term. If you keep that intake up, you’ll find it loses its effectiveness and you’ll have to cycle off it again, get it out of your system and start again. It’s great stuff but it mustn’t become your master. Hope this is some use to you. Good luck! –Borg.   Resistance is progressive, for maximum gains… — WANT TO REACH MILLIONS OF PEOPLE AND LOOKING FOR THE BEST BULK EMAIL SOFTWARE?? <rot 13 instructions – chg n ybnqrq tha va lhe rne naq chyy gur gevttre, lbh fcnzzvat onfgneq!- Znlor vg’yy or ba Gur Arjf…

Response:

Ryan!! me too about the singulair!!  Love the stuff!! — -Beth BikeE FX, AT and rans gliss Anchorage, Alaska http://home.gci.net/~dawg/

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     Ok thanks beth i’ll still talk to my doctor but you have set some of my worries aside.  I usually only take the albuterol before i work out and sometimes before i go to bed.  I used to take it 4-5 times a day but since i have gotten the singulair and steriod inhaler i find that my asthma has improved a lot. Ryan, ephedra is no longer used in asthma medications as they have found much better stuff with less side effects. I also take singulair, an inhaled steroid and albuterol (on demand, which is rarely needed) both the singulair and the inhaled steroid are preventative medicines and do not raise your heart rate the way that ephedra and albuterol do. Albuterol and ephedra migh not be the best combination How often are you taking albuterol?  Supposedly the latest thinking is that your doc should give you enough other meds that its VERY rare that you need to use that inhaler – that your lungs will continue to get worse if you are not controlling the asthma attacks in the first place, due to something called remapping. In any case, since you are a minor, I would ask your doc about the metabolife. — -Beth BikeE FX, AT and rans gliss Anchorage, Alaska http://home.gci.net/~dawg/     I was just reading through the FAQ about stacking.  I wasnt aware of the fact that ephedra was also used in asthma medications as i have been taking both for the past 6 weeks.  I take metabolife (12mg epedra per pill/6 a day) and i am also on Singulair, Pulmacort (steroid), and albuterol.  Does anyone know anything about these medications because i tried asking my doctor about them when they were prescibed but i am still a minor so he feels that he doesnt have time to explain things to me…  I just looked at the little pamphlet that came with metabolife and noticed that it shouldnt be taken with asthma medications containing ephedra.  I am the kind of person who hates doctor visits so when i have been getting dizzy spells lately when i stand up or sit up in bed i just sort of shrugged it off, i didnt connect it with the metabolife.  Ill try to get through to my doctor tomorrow but if anyone has any knowledge about these medications please let me know. Thanks all Ryan

Response:

Check out this site http://onhealth.webmd.com/conditions/resource/pharmacy/multum9/item,6… for things that can affect albuterol inhalation.  Caffeine, diet pills and decongestants are listed. Sandy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Singulair is a leukotriene D4 antagonist, you know that Pulmacort is an inhaled steroid, and I think albuterol is a Beta-agonist.  That alone can make you jittery and dizzy after a good couple puffs on the inhaler.  Ephedra (aka ephedrine or ma huang) is a non-selective beta-agonist and likely is acting in conjunction with the albuterol to make you dizzy.  Certainly do read and reread the stacking FAQ as that method is not for everyone.  It sounds as if it may not be for you. Good luck, Sandy don’t have an answer for you, but would love to hear what your doc says J     I was just reading through the FAQ about stacking.  I wasnt aware of the fact that ephedra was also used in asthma medications as i have been taking both for the past 6 weeks.  I take metabolife (12mg epedra per pill/6 a day) and i am also on Singulair, Pulmacort (steroid), and albuterol.  Does anyone know anything about these medications because i tried asking my doctor about them when they were prescibed but i am still a minor so he feels that he doesnt have time to explain things to me…  I just looked at the little pamphlet that came with metabolife and noticed that it shouldnt be taken with asthma medications containing ephedra.  I am the kind of person who hates doctor visits so when i have been getting dizzy spells lately when i stand up or sit up in bed i just sort of shrugged it off, i didnt connect it with the metabolife.  Ill try to get through to my doctor tomorrow but if anyone has any knowledge about these medications please let me know. Thanks all Ryan

Response:

Ryan, ephedra is no longer used in asthma medications as they have found much better stuff with less side effects. I also take singulair, an inhaled steroid and albuterol (on demand, which is rarely needed) both the singulair and the inhaled steroid are preventative medicines and do not raise your heart rate the way that ephedra and albuterol do.  Albuterol and ephedra migh not be the best combination How often are you taking albuterol?  Supposedly the latest thinking is that your doc should give you enough other meds that its VERY rare that you need to use that inhaler – that your lungs will continue to get worse if you are not controlling the asthma attacks in the first place, due to something called remapping. In any case, since you are a minor, I would ask your doc about the metabolife. — -Beth BikeE FX, AT and rans gliss Anchorage, Alaska http://home.gci.net/~dawg/

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     I was just reading through the FAQ about stacking.  I wasnt aware of the fact that ephedra was also used in asthma medications as i have been taking both for the past 6 weeks.  I take metabolife (12mg epedra per pill/6 a day) and i am also on Singulair, Pulmacort (steroid), and albuterol.  Does anyone know anything about these medications because i tried asking my doctor about them when they were prescibed but i am still a minor so he feels that he doesnt have time to explain things to me…  I just looked at the little pamphlet that came with metabolife and noticed that it shouldnt be taken with asthma medications containing ephedra.  I am the kind of person who hates doctor visits so when i have been getting dizzy spells lately when i stand up or sit up in bed i just sort of shrugged it off, i didnt connect it with the metabolife.  Ill try to get through to my doctor tomorrow but if anyone has any knowledge about these medications please let me know. Thanks all Ryan

Response:

    Ok thanks beth i’ll still talk to my doctor but you have set some of my worries aside.  I usually only take the albuterol before i work out and sometimes before i go to bed.  I used to take it 4-5 times a day but since i have gotten the singulair and steriod inhaler i find that my asthma has improved a lot.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ryan, ephedra is no longer used in asthma medications as they have found much better stuff with less side effects. I also take singulair, an inhaled steroid and albuterol (on demand, which is rarely needed) both the singulair and the inhaled steroid are preventative medicines and do not raise your heart rate the way that ephedra and albuterol do. Albuterol and ephedra migh not be the best combination How often are you taking albuterol?  Supposedly the latest thinking is that your doc should give you enough other meds that its VERY rare that you need to use that inhaler – that your lungs will continue to get worse if you are not controlling the asthma attacks in the first place, due to something called remapping. In any case, since you are a minor, I would ask your doc about the metabolife. — -Beth BikeE FX, AT and rans gliss Anchorage, Alaska http://home.gci.net/~dawg/     I was just reading through the FAQ about stacking.  I wasnt aware of the fact that ephedra was also used in asthma medications as i have been taking both for the past 6 weeks.  I take metabolife (12mg epedra per pill/6 a day) and i am also on Singulair, Pulmacort (steroid), and albuterol.  Does anyone know anything about these medications because i tried asking my doctor about them when they were prescibed but i am still a minor so he feels that he doesnt have time to explain things to me…  I just looked at the little pamphlet that came with metabolife and noticed that it shouldnt be taken with asthma medications containing ephedra.  I am the kind of person who hates doctor visits so when i have been getting dizzy spells lately when i stand up or sit up in bed i just sort of shrugged it off, i didnt connect it with the metabolife.  Ill try to get through to my doctor tomorrow but if anyone has any knowledge about these medications please let me know. Thanks all Ryan

Response:

don’t have an answer for you, but would love to hear what your doc says J

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     I was just reading through the FAQ about stacking.  I wasnt aware of the fact that ephedra was also used in asthma medications as i have been taking both for the past 6 weeks.  I take metabolife (12mg epedra per pill/6 a day) and i am also on Singulair, Pulmacort (steroid), and albuterol.  Does anyone know anything about these medications because i tried asking my doctor about them when they were prescibed but i am still a minor so he feels that he doesnt have time to explain things to me…  I just looked at the little pamphlet that came with metabolife and noticed that it shouldnt be taken with asthma medications containing ephedra.  I am the kind of person who hates doctor visits so when i have been getting dizzy spells lately when i stand up or sit up in bed i just sort of shrugged it off, i didnt connect it with the metabolife.  Ill try to get through to my doctor tomorrow but if anyone has any knowledge about these medications please let me know. Thanks all Ryan

Response:

You could try talking to a pharmacist.  IMHO they are often much more competent to discuss drugs than MD’s are.  Make sure you are talking with a pharmacist and not the assistant.   I’ll bet you they will say not to take the stack since you are on the asthma meds.   Also I would advise not to mix these anymore, at least until you speak with a pharmacist and MD,  since you are already having symptoms that concern you. Take care of you health.  It’s no fun being skinny when your dead. Sassy

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – don’t have an answer for you, but would love to hear what your doc says J     I was just reading through the FAQ about stacking.  I wasnt aware of the fact that ephedra was also used in asthma medications as i have been taking both for the past 6 weeks.  I take metabolife (12mg epedra per pill/6 a day) and i am also on Singulair, Pulmacort (steroid), and albuterol.  Does anyone know anything about these medications because i tried asking my doctor about them when they were prescibed but i am still a minor so he feels that he doesnt have time to explain things to me…  I just looked at the little pamphlet that came with metabolife and noticed that it shouldnt be taken with asthma medications containing ephedra.  I am the kind of person who hates doctor visits so when i have been getting dizzy spells lately when i stand up or sit up in bed i just sort of shrugged it off, i didnt connect it with the metabolife.  Ill try to get through to my doctor tomorrow but if anyone has any knowledge about these medications please let me know. Thanks all Ryan

Response:

    I was just reading through the FAQ about stacking.  I wasnt aware of the fact that ephedra was also used in asthma medications as i have been taking both for the past 6 weeks.  I take metabolife (12mg epedra per pill/6 a day) and i am also on Singulair, Pulmacort (steroid), and albuterol.  Does anyone know anything about these medications because i tried asking my doctor about them when they were prescibed but i am still a minor so he feels that he doesnt have time to explain things to me…  I just looked at the little pamphlet that came with metabolife and noticed that it shouldnt be taken with asthma medications containing ephedra.  I am the kind of person who hates doctor visits so when i have been getting dizzy spells lately when i stand up or sit up in bed i just sort of shrugged it off, i didnt connect it with the metabolife.  Ill try to get through to my doctor tomorrow but if anyone has any knowledge about these medications please let me know.  Thanks all Ryan

Response:

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello all, After taking Adderall XR 20mg for over six months with no side effects (other than some weight loss), I’ve developed shaking hands over the last month.  I was thinking maybe I got a bad batch of Adderall from the pharmacist last time, but this new batch is having the same effect. My doctor has no explanation.  The only change is I’ve started taking Prozac each day, but my doc says this should have no impact on my symptoms. Any thoughts are greatly appreciated! -N2 Strange… And it isn’t parkinsons? What does your doctor tells you??? no explenation? Hmmmm…my essential tremor is reduced when I am taking methylphenidate (concerta, ritalin)…I wonder if there is a connection? It’s the strangest thing I ever heard. Because methylphenidate isn’t the same as L-dopa and it isn’t effective against tremors from parkinsons. So it’s strange…

<G I do not care if it is "coincidental"….or even placebo….as long as it works <g  But, from what I understand, doesn’t methylphenidate work on the dopamine levels in the patient? Besides, parkinsons is not the same thing as essential tremor…though it does appear that having ET might increase the chances of getting parkinson’s… http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essential_tremor Mine currently is only in my hands (as is my mother’s)…my grandfather’s was in in hands, his arms, and showed up in his gait as well…the weird thing is, it shows up when I am "at rest," but when I do something with my hands (such as play guitar), I do not tremble as much (i.e,. when my hands are resting against the guitar, they might tremble a bit, but when then are pressed down to hold a chord, the whole guitar is not shaking, and the hand stops shaking). — Buny " Nobody realizes that some people expend tremendous energy merely to be normal." ~ Albert Camus

Response:

Hello all, After taking Adderall XR 20mg for over six months with no side effects (other than some weight loss), I’ve developed shaking hands over the last month.  I was thinking maybe I got a bad batch of Adderall from the pharmacist last time, but this new batch is having the same effect.  My doctor has no explanation.  The only change is I’ve started taking Prozac each day, but my doc says this should have no impact on my symptoms. Any thoughts are greatly appreciated! -N2

Response:

Hello all, After taking Adderall XR 20mg for over six months with no side effects (other than some weight loss), I’ve developed shaking hands over the last month.  I was thinking maybe I got a bad batch of Adderall from the pharmacist last time, but this new batch is having the same effect.  My doctor has no explanation.  The only change is I’ve started taking Prozac each day, but my doc says this should have no impact on my symptoms. Any thoughts are greatly appreciated!

Does the shaking go away when you stop taking the Adderall? Priscilla

Response:

Hello all, After taking Adderall XR 20mg for over six months with no side effects (other than some weight loss), I’ve developed shaking hands over the last month.  I was thinking maybe I got a bad batch of Adderall from the pharmacist last time, but this new batch is having the same effect.  My doctor has no explanation.  The only change is I’ve started taking Prozac each day, but my doc says this should have no impact on my symptoms. Any thoughts are greatly appreciated!

It sounds like the Prozac to me – that’s what has changed.

Response:

Hello all, After taking Adderall XR 20mg for over six months with no side effects (other than some weight loss), I’ve developed shaking hands over the last month.  I was thinking maybe I got a bad batch of Adderall from the pharmacist last time, but this new batch is having the same effect.  My doctor has no explanation.  The only change is I’ve started taking Prozac each day, but my doc says this should have no impact on my symptoms. Any thoughts are greatly appreciated! -N2

Strange… And it isn’t parkinsons? What does your doctor tells you??? no explenation?

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello all, After taking Adderall XR 20mg for over six months with no side effects (other than some weight loss), I’ve developed shaking hands over the last month.  I was thinking maybe I got a bad batch of Adderall from the pharmacist last time, but this new batch is having the same effect.  My doctor has no explanation.  The only change is I’ve started taking Prozac each day, but my doc says this should have no impact on my symptoms. Any thoughts are greatly appreciated! -N2 Strange… And it isn’t parkinsons? What does your doctor tells you??? no explenation?

Hmmmm…my essential tremor is reduced when I am taking methylphenidate (concerta, ritalin)…I wonder if there is a connection? — Buny " Nobody realizes that some people expend tremendous energy merely to be normal." ~ Albert Camus

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello all, After taking Adderall XR 20mg for over six months with no side effects (other than some weight loss), I’ve developed shaking hands over the last month.  I was thinking maybe I got a bad batch of Adderall from the pharmacist last time, but this new batch is having the same effect.  My doctor has no explanation.  The only change is I’ve started taking Prozac each day, but my doc says this should have no impact on my symptoms. Any thoughts are greatly appreciated! -N2 Strange… And it isn’t parkinsons? What does your doctor tells you??? no explenation? Hmmmm…my essential tremor is reduced when I am taking methylphenidate (concerta, ritalin)…I wonder if there is a connection?

It’s the strangest thing I ever heard. Because methylphenidate isn’t the same as L-dopa and it isn’t effective against tremors from parkinsons. So it’s strange… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — Buny " Nobody realizes that some people expend tremendous energy merely to be normal." ~ Albert Camus

Response:

Question:

Excellent post Gordo thats why my GI told me not to take it on tx. I wouldn’t want to take anything that could give a false reading on my labs while on tx. No way!                                              Juanita

Response:

Thanks for passing that on, Gordo. Should I or shouldn’t I?  The answer is only one phone call away.  Call or no call? Naw, I don’t wanna know.   Elmo ////////////   I think I was the one who started this last year when I was on tx. Here’s the background: We use a family of enzymes called "Cytochrome P450" (or "CYP") to get rid of a lot of substances (such as many drugs) from our bodies. The amount of a drug (such as ribavirin) that you take and how often you take it is based on how fast your body gets rid of it. You need a certain amount in you for the drug to work, and the faster your body gets rid of it the more you have to take, and you have to take it more often. So if I’m taking a drug that is metabolized by a CYP, and I take another drug that changes how that CYP works (slows it down or speeds it up) then there’s the potential that I could end up with way too much of the first drug (because it’s not getting cleared as fast) or too little (because it’s getting cleared too fast.) Possible overdose, or the drug just won’t work. It gets kind of technical but if you like this stuff I thought this site was a good overview: http://www.anaesthetist.com/physiol/basics/metabol/cyp/cyp.htm#all Milk Thistle has repeatedly been shown to impair one of the CYP enzymes – CYP3A4 – and had a significant impact on the metabolism of several substances that are metabolized by that enzyme. This is exactly the same situation that has caused many toxic drug interactions. Where it gets confusing is that these studies are done using liver cells in cultures and there’s one study that looked for, and didn’t find, the same effects in people. So what’s this mean for people on treatment? From: http://www.drugs.com/PDR/Ribavirin__USP_Capsules.html "Results of in vitro studies using both human and rat liver microsome preparations indicated little or no cytochrome P450 enzyme-mediated metabolism of ribavirin, with minimal potential for P450 enzyme-based drug interactions." So there doesn’t seem to be a potential for interaction with Ribavirin. Same thing for pegasys: "Peginterferon-a -2a (40kD) showed no significant effects on drug metabolism mediated by CYP2C9, 2C19, 2D6 and 3A4 isoenzymes in healthy nonsmoking male volunteers." (from http://janis7hepc.com/differences_between_pegasys_and.htm) People on tx tend to take a lot of other drugs, though, and this site lists a lot of drugs that use the same enzyme that Milk Thistle, in the lab, has been shown to inhibit: http://www.catie.ca/supple-e.nsf/0/7b09aa55a412896c85256c6e0070bf60?O… ocument The effects of Milk Thistle are mostly based on "I took it and it made my liver better" reports, and by looking at its activity in cells in test tubes – the same type of test tubes that show it has a negative interaction with some other drugs (meaning of someone is going to use the argument that the test tube studies don’t apply to bodies, they have to admit that it applies to the supposed benefits as well.) One recent clinical study which attempted to show some benefit to using it found none at all: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/05/050504003425.htm So end result: there is no predicted interaction with interferon or ribavirin. There is a possible interaction with a lot of other drugs that people on tx take (and that I was taking). A recent study shows that it doesn’t seem to have the beneficial effect that people have been saying it has. I decided not to take it. Gordo In article <L9nwe.5387$Bn6.179@trndny08

, "john" <otk…@hotmail.com

wrote: To be honest, everyone in the group is saying it’s not good to take milk thistle while on interferon and the doc said its fine.With the vast knowledge from this group i have learned more in 2 days here then 9 monthes with the doctor.Thanks everyone…… "AguaGirl" <some…@somewhere.com

wrote in message

news:RYGdnWWn6JIr9FzfRVn-iA@adelphia.com… <elmoemer…@webtv.net

wrote in message

news:10915-42C08C99-698@storefull-3256.bay.webtv.net… ahahahahahahahahaha!!! If it was good for good ole AG, it must be good for you. Her response to you defies what many knowledgable experts on the matter have stated. Milk thistle has a history of interfering with the absorbtion of other drugs and it’s not known for sure if it has the same negative effect on combination drugs, but many of the hepc experts recommend not taking it while on tx. Why chance it? AG’s response isn’t so much about milk thistle as it is about disagreeing with me. LOL. As she said though, do your research and you’ll see there’s been much speculation about whether you should take milk thistle and do tx at the same time. Elmo Your wrong elmo. I honestly don’t give you much thought one way or the other….and I didn’t say it was good for everyone. I basically said there is disagreement in the medical community about milk thistles interaction with the tx. You are not a doctor nor am I. John has a doctor. What I told John was to run EVERYTHING he reads or hears past his doctor which is what I did. (which is why I continued to take it). Your first post sounded definitive. The case against milk thistle is speculative…which is exactly what I said and what you parroted in your reply. I didn’t even disagree with what you posted at first, merely said it wasn’t ‘fact’ as much as speculation. AG http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/DocElmosHepFile http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/TheFamilyAlbum

Response:

In article <10915-42C08C99-…@storefull-3256.bay.webtv.net

,

 elmoemer…@webtv.net wrote:

 Milk thistle has a history of interfering with the absorbtion of other drugs and it’s not known for sure if it has the same negative effect on combination drugs, but many of the hepc experts recommend not taking it while on tx.  Why chance it?

The active ingredient in Milk Thistle has the _potential_ to interfere with a liver enzyme which is used by the body to metabolize many different drugs. One study with one anti-HIV Protease Inhibitor showed that taking it with Milk Thistle somewhat reduced the amount that was absorbed from one dose but most importantly, when levels of the PI were measured at the "trough" point – right before the next scheduled dose – it was an average of 25% and as much as 60% lower than it should be.  That’s significant and bad and could lead to resistance. So even though some people take it with other meds with no apparent problems, there is evidence that the potential it has to interfere is very real. Seems to me that something of such unproven benefit – which at least one study has shown to have no benefit – that has the potential to cause problems isn’t something I’d want to take while taking other serious meds. From: http://www.catie.ca/supple-e.nsf/0/7b09aa55a412896c85256c6e0070bf60?O… ocument ————— Below is a short list of some other medications that are processed through the CYP3A4 enzyme. Based on the effect of milk thistle on liver enzymes in the lab, it is possible that levels of these medications may increase if taken by people who are also using milk thistle. This list is not exhaustive:    

Question:

One junior aspirin is ok, but large doses are contraindicated with insulin or glucose-reducing tablets. Possible hypos you see. References Professor Peter Sonksen Emeritus Professor of Endocrinology Guy`s, King`s and St. Thomas` Hospitals` School of Medicine St. Thomas Hospital London Dr. Charles Fox Consultant Physician Northampton General Hospital Sue Judd DSN St. Thomas` Hospital London — Al. Idiopathic t1 HbA1c 5.95 Total Chol 2.7 Blood Pressure 105/70 Beef Lente 1x Beef Neutral 2x

Response:

Many diabetologists prescribe 75mg aspirin per day as a matter of course since stroke is major danger for T2s.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is it the same for paracetamol? Ian I done some searching, and the supposed dangers of paracetamol are just one more urban myth. http://tinyurl.com/zau9 A website that has a vested interest. They also don’t mention liver damage due to paracetamol which eventually causes death. They quote 30+ tablets are required to kill you. They don’t say that liver damage can occur with far fewer. They also don’t point out that a tub of 100 can be bought for a couple of quid, or that an overdose of, for example, 100 prozac/effexor can be survived but are POM. Al, with your inherehent cynicism I’m surprised you don’t look for the info that’s between the lines.

With my inherent cynicism I don`t trust a mere paramedic dxed less than 6 months ago. Is your HbA1c less than 6mmol yet? Might be, if so good. Is your total chol below 4 yet? If so good Stick around a bit, some of us here were dxed decades ago, you might learn, but with you inherent arrogance you might not. I remember you claiming on upsd that dm can cause immediate organ failure. Oh no, it is takes 20+ years to do it slowly and painfully. Paracetamol used correctly takes at least that long to cause liver failure. Al Cynical to my last dying breath.

Response:

Is it the same for paracetamol? Ian

I done some searching, and the supposed dangers of paracetamol are just one more urban myth. http://tinyurl.com/zau9 — Al. Idiopathic t1 HbA1c 5.95 Total Chol 2.7 Blood Pressure 105/70 Beef Lente 1x Beef Neutral 2x

Response:

One junior aspirin is ok, but large doses are contraindicated with insulin or glucose-reducing tablets. Possible hypos you see.

Funny, my GP said that when I asked about using aspirin as an anti- coagulant: no more than 75 mg. He didn’t connect it with diabetes though. — Joe Soap

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is it the same for paracetamol? Ian Not afaik. But paracetamol in very very large doses damages the liver, or so I am told,  by a doctor I used to trust back in the good old 1970`s when I was not diabetic. Paracetamol is dangerous in *not very* large dosages. In fact I’d go as far as to say it is probably the most dangerous non-prescription medicinal drug.

Do you have an URL, please? You might well be right, I certainly prefer not to touch it. — Al. Idiopathic t1 HbA1c 5.95 Total Chol 2.7 Blood Pressure 105/70 Beef Lente 1x Beef Neutral 2x

Response:

Is it the same for paracetamol? Ian

Not afaik. But paracetamol in very very large doses damages the liver, or so I am told,  by a doctor I used to trust back in the good old 1970`s when I was not diabetic. — Al. Idiopathic t1 HbA1c 5.95 Total Chol 2.7 Blood Pressure 105/70 Beef Lente 1x Beef Neutral 2x

Response:

Is it the same for paracetamol? Ian

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – One junior aspirin is ok, but large doses are contraindicated with insulin or glucose-reducing tablets. Possible hypos you see. References Professor Peter Sonksen Emeritus Professor of Endocrinology Guy`s, King`s and St. Thomas` Hospitals` School of Medicine St. Thomas Hospital London Dr. Charles Fox Consultant Physician Northampton General Hospital Sue Judd DSN St. Thomas` Hospital London — Al. Idiopathic t1 HbA1c 5.95 Total Chol 2.7 Blood Pressure 105/70 Beef Lente 1x Beef Neutral 2x

Response:

Is it the same for paracetamol? Ian Not afaik. But paracetamol in very very large doses damages the liver, or so I am told,  by a doctor I used to trust back in the good old 1970`s when I was not diabetic.

A great many suicides are caused by overdosing on paracetamol. The sad bit is that death is not immediate, but if not treated within a few hours, the liver damage is irreversible, so the patient dies slowly over the next few days even though they might have had a change of heart about killing themselves. Many suicide attempts are in reality a cry for help, not a genuine desire to end it all. At one time it was suggested that all paracetamol tablets have the antidote incorporated into them, so that the more tablets you took, the more antidote you got, and the whole thing was self neutralising, but nothing ever happened and the suicides continue. I had a relative who had a very close shave overdosing with paracetamol. — Chris E-mail: christopher[dot]hogg[at]virgin[dot]net

Response:

Question:

I was told I have mild case of Gerd earlier this year. I was getting allot of acid reflux. Since then I have been on Protonix and the reflux has stopped, BUT I get a lump feeling in my throat everyday, and sometimes just feel sick to my stomach? Does anyone have these same symptoms or know what they are ? Thanks

Response:

I wish there were more people lurking around here…. I’m not sure, sorry!   try…..www.gerd-support.com/

Response:

I get this same feeling and was told, by my GI MD, that it’s called a "globus sensation," and is caused by acid coming back up the esophagus.  At first, I thought I was going to choke on some food remnants, however, after the cause was explained to me, I now know it’s just part of the reflux problem.  Have you told your MD about this?  I would if I were you, because it’s possible that the Protonix is not working fully for you, and/or your dosage may need to be changed.  I’ve been on Tagamet, Prilosec, Protonix, and Aciphex, and nothing has really worked for me.  Yesterday I went for an EGD (esophagogstroduodenoscopy) and for the first time in one year, I no longer had the "lump in the throat" feeling.  I can only hope it lasts for a long time.  In one week I will know the results of the biopsies taken during the EGD. Hope this helps. Sharon

Response:

I had the camera go down my throat, is that what you had. If so I wonder why you didnt have the lump sensation after having the procedure ?  I dont get the bad reflux like l use to so maybe just a little reflux cause the lump sensation…. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I get this same feeling and was told, by my GI MD, that it’s called a "globus sensation," and is caused by acid coming back up the esophagus.  At first, I thought I was going to choke on some food remnants, however, after the cause was explained to me, I now know it’s just part of the reflux problem.  Have you told your MD about this?  I would if I were you, because it’s possible that the Protonix is not working fully for you, and/or your dosage may need to be changed.  I’ve been on Tagamet, Prilosec, Protonix, and Aciphex, and nothing has really worked for me.  Yesterday I went for an EGD (esophagogstroduodenoscopy) and for the first time in one year, I no longer had the "lump in the throat" feeling.  I can only hope it lasts for a long time.  In one week I will know the results of the biopsies taken during the EGD. Hope this helps. Sharon

Response:

Yes, it was the tube and camera.  Actually, I was told by my ENT a while back, during an endoscopic exam, that my esophagus was extremely narrow. Since I had the EGD yesterday, I have noticed that it is easier for me to swallow my daily pills/vitamins, and I attribute that to the procedure. However, my reflux is only a trifle better.  After the procedure, I barely had a sore throat yesterday afternoon and evening, and today I’m right as rain.  I think that during the procedure the doctor must have opened up my esophagus some, and maybe fixed a few other things, because the severe burning/acid reflux did not bother me from dawn to dusk today.  For cripe sakes, I even got reflux from plain Quaker Oats oatmeal!!  Yesterday the GI MD told me to add more fiber to my diet, which may help any digestive problems I may have.  As I stated in my previous email, I won’t know the results of the EGD for one week.  I have to take this one day at a time.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I had the camera go down my throat, is that what you had. If so I wonder why you didnt have the lump sensation after having the procedure ?  I dont get the bad reflux like l use to so maybe just a little reflux cause the lump sensation….

Response:

Yes, I have the same symptoms, but my primary doc can’t explain the "lump" in my throat (actually, quite painful with trouble swallowing) that I’m having.  He treated me for GERD for several months, helped the heartburn but not the throat problem, so I’m off to a GI doc next week. Has your doc tried treating you for anxiety?  Mine did (with Xanax and Zoloft), and while it didn’t help me, it’s a common anxiety problem and perhaps a few weeks of trial meds could prove/disprove it for you? HTH, Chip

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was told I have mild case of Gerd earlier this year. I was getting allot of acid reflux. Since then I have been on Protonix and the reflux has stopped, BUT I get a lump feeling in my throat everyday, and sometimes just feel sick to my stomach? Does anyone have these same symptoms or know what they are ? Thanks

Response:

Question:

Ketoacidosis is not ketosis. Very different states. Ketoacidosis is indeed life threatening and must be treated immediately. Ketoacidosis is generally caused by diabetes which is out of control. Diabetes (except type I diabetes) is caused by carbohydrate metabolism.

Can anyone tell me the difference between ketoacidosis and lactoacidosis? I remember lactoacidosis being one of the potential (and extremely life-threatening) side-effects of taking the drug metformin (which I’ve since stopped taking) Is it the same as ketoacidosis? thanks ~~~~~ Rachel Outside of a dog, a book is man’s best friend. Inside of a dog, it’s too dark to read. – Groucho Marx ~~~~

Response:

  Fact: ten years from now, people will look back at Atkins and his FAD diet and shake their heads and wonder if the horrible effects can be reversed.

LOL Try reading the book … Dr Atkins and his diet have been around for over 20 years now … jackass ~~~~~ Rachel Outside of a dog, a book is man’s best friend. Inside of a dog, it’s too dark to read. – Groucho Marx ~~~~

Response:

"Nina" wrote … I just hate, fads, fashions, pop culture and anything else that worms its way into the mainstream culture by praying on the desperate.  This whole Dr. "Quack" Atkins thing just hits a nerve; a very sore nerve at that! Ah, so you’re here to save us from ourselves.  Good chap. <snip Thanks darling! You’re simply divine.

*laffin’ my @ss off!* ~~~~~ Rachel Outside of a dog, a book is man’s best friend. Inside of a dog, it’s too dark to read. – Groucho Marx ~~~~

Response:

"Lisa C." wrote Also, I see you post to other diet newsgroups as well. Is this for the betterment of man-kind? How wonderful of you.

I was wondering how long it would take for people to bite, I’ve seen quite a few anti-low-carb messages from this guy today – poor Nigel No-Mates needs to annoy people to get any attention … poor diddums! Every newsgroup needs a troll to play with! ~~~~~ Rachel Outside of a dog, a book is man’s best friend. Inside of a dog, it’s too dark to read. – Groucho Marx

Response:

Ahh, so you think that no one holds the answer.  The Doctors may not be right all the time.  And Encylopedia Britainica?  More knowledgable that PhD education biochemists?  What makes you so sure you hold the "right" answer anymore than the doctors who do recommend this diet?  Half the people in any arguement are correct, you think you way, we will think out way.  Just don’t try to save us from ourselves, and we won’t tell YOU how to run your life either. Hope (PMS’ing and bitchy from being tempted by the pizza monster tonight at a friend’s place) 183/180/145 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – And my doctor wanted to put me on medication for the rest of my life to "control" a potential blood pressure problem at the age of 14.  A year’s worth of running a mile every day and the problem disappeared, doctors can’t even explain that one. So, in my opinon, medical doctors rate just about as low as TV evangelists in my books.  BTW, notice how if they have the choice of 5 different mefications to subscribe, they choose the newest, most expensive one by default, unless otherwise instructed?

Response:

1. Extended periods of ketosis affect the chemical composition of the blood in such a way that you increase risk of cardiac incident (blood ketoacidosis). 2. In a state of ketoacidosis, carbon dioxide accumulates in the tissues. Oxygen delivery to the cells is impaired. This can lead to a wide range of disastrous consequences ranging from respiratory ailments to metabolic illness. 3. Toxic ammonia buildup resulting from severe cases of ketoacidosis can be lethal.

You neglected to note that ketoacidosis is a condition limited to Type I diabetics.  In people who are capable of producing insulin, feedback mechanisms in the body prevent dietary ketosis from becoming ketoacidosis. When ketone concentrations reach a certain level, the body releases insulin and inhibits metabolism of fats. —                 "There’s a seeker born every minute."

Response:

I love it Nina!!   lol Cath

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t sell anything, actually I work for the Wildlife Conservation Society. I just hate, fads, fashions, pop culture and anything else that worms its way into the mainstream culture by praying on the desperate.  This whole Dr. "Quack" Atkins thing just hits a nerve; a very sore nerve at that! Ah, so you’re here to save us from ourselves.  Good chap. Thank you ever so much for your concern regarding my health.  In this day and age of ever-increasing apathy, it heartens me to know that you are looking out for my health needs. Thanks darling! You’re simply divine. Ta- Nina —

Response:

So far be it for me to even bother trying to help anyone further.

 Oh, good – does this mean you’ll go away now??

Response:

Well, I was posting this to keep everyone informed.  I’m not saying you don’t lose weight on this diet, I just wanted to enighten some people that only had the information being fed (no pun intended) to them by Atkins, with some objective references.

Except, the references you’ve given aren’t objective. Or complete. Encyclopedias have always been put together by biased people. You can read encyclopedias of the past to understand how this is true. For example, a writer I am fond of, Lytton Strachey, was a homosexual and lived with a woman artist he had a platonic lifelong affair with, for a good portion of his adult life. (Early 20th century) An encyclopedia from the early seventies that I was doing research in, claimed he was a lifelong bachelor, who lived until his death with his mother. This was a so-called authoritative text! Read old encyclopedias, and the archaic ideas put out by them will shock you. Read medical books from a few years back and you’ll run into the same situation. This has been true for centuries. Ketosis CAN be a symptom of a number of disorders. That does not mean it is always a symptom of a disorder. Ketogenic diets are increasingly recognized as an excellent way to deal with brain and nerve system disorders such as epilepsy & sclerosis. I know that it is certainly making a difference in my condition, benign essential tremor. There is a reason why the quotation "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing" is so true. I don’t like seeing people being taken advantage of, but everyone here seems to know everything there is about the side effects of the diet. (Or at least they want to believe everything Atkins has told them, without question.)  So far be it for me to even bother trying to help anyone further. The information is right there for anyone who wants to remove the blinders for a second.  There’s no sense in me trying to show it to you, as the saying goes, "You can lead a horse to water…"

You are assuming we are all idiots. Far from it. I didn’t leap into this diet. I was concerned about it for years. But the more I have learned, and the more I do it, the more I know I’ve made a good choice. And if you are concerned about side effects, take a look at all the pharmaceutical ads that are promoting wonder drugs right now, that must by law list the side effects of the drugs. You think this diet is dangerous? God. Sandra – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m not desperate.  I like lowcarbing and it is working for me and most of the people on the NG.  I appreciate your concern and your need to "warn" us, but honestly, nobody is dropping dead on this diet. Give it some time… the effects will start to show their ugly face. Fact: eating high protein low/no carb acidifies the body Fact: In an attempt to raise system PH, the body calls on it’s mineral stores Fact: the primary mineral stores are within the bones Fact: EATING LOWCARB WILL de-mineralize your bones THUS lead you into an osteoporotic state…. you will sneeze and fracture your ribs….EEEOUCH! Fact: if you disagree with ANY of the above, you need to research these FACTS!

Fact: It takes more than writing "Fact" to make something a Fact. Thought I would explain that to you, since you seem confused. I hate for FACTS to get in the way of a good argument, but alas, it’s now to be the case.  Before I killfile you, I’ll leave you with this: I’m imagining you’re talking about the FALLACY that "protein causes calcium loss."  I’d also imgine you’ve got nothing to back up your claim except that your mother’s-brother’s-friend-who-once-knew-a-nutritionist told you. There’s much more that goes into bone density, like activity level and hormones.  But that would be like, facts, which I think you have no desire to be in possession of.  Before you go into my killfile (ta!) I’ll leave you with this. High Protein Diets and Bone Loss by Elzi Volk http://www.allprotraining.com/Articles/NutritionCenter/2000/May/highp… (She actually uses, like, references and stuff.  But again, let’s not have facts get in the way of things) It’s believed that the old research was poorly designed and is outdated. A wee bit o’ current research. Proc Nutr Soc 1999 May;58(2):403-13 Optimal intakes of protein in the human diet. Millward DJ Centre for Nutrition and Food Safety, School of Biological Sciences, For protein, progress is slow in defining quantifiable indicators of adequacy other than balance and growth. As far as current requirements are concerned, only in the case of infants and children is there any case for revision, and  this change is to lower values. Such intakes would appear to be safe  when consumed as milk formula. In pregnancy, notwithstanding the concern that deficiency  may influence programming of disease in later life, there is little  evidence of any increased need, and some evidence that increased intakes would pose a  risk. For the elderly there is no evidence of an increased requirement  or of benefit from increased intakes, except possibly for bone health. For adults, while we  now know much more about metabolic adaptation to varying intakes, there  would appear to be no case for a change in current recommendations. As far as  risks and benefits of high intakes are concerned, there is now only a weak case for risk for renal function. For bone health the established views of risk of high protein intakes are not supported by newly-emerging data, with benefit indicated in the elderly. There is also circumstantial evidence for benefit on blood  pressure and stroke mortality. With athletes there is little evidence of benefit of increased intakes in terms of performance, with older literature suggesting an adverse influence. Thus, given that a safe upper limit is currently defined as twice the reference nutrient intake, and that for individuals with high energy requirements this value (1.5 g/kg per d) is easily exceeded, there is a  case for revising thedefinition of a safe upper limit. Cheers, Nina — 100% Sweat http://www.theslack.com/diet2.html

Response:

Ketosis-lipolysis is NOT ketoacidosis http://www.lowcarb.org/ketosis.html      Please don’t feed the TROLL.   Lee Rodgers Lee Rodgers The Lowcarb Retreat http://www.lowcarb.org LOSE weight for LOOSE jeans.  LOSERS have LOOSER jeans. "I have to say, if your mind weren’t so narrow, your waist would be." Dr.A Read the FAQ jack   http://www.grossweb.com/asdlc Lowcarb Cookbooks   http://www.lowcarb.org/cook_bks.html

Response:

Well, I was posting this to keep everyone informed.  I’m not saying you don’t lose weight on this diet, I just wanted to enighten some people that only had the information being fed (no pun intended) to them by Atkins, with some objective references. I don’t like seeing people being taken advantage of, but everyone here seems to know everything there is about the side effects of the diet. (Or at least they want to believe everything Atkins has told them, without question.)  So far be it for me to even bother trying to help anyone further. The information is right there for anyone who wants to remove the blinders for a second.  There’s no sense in me trying to show it to you, as the saying goes, "You can lead a horse to water…"

Response:

Well, I was posting this to keep everyone informed.  I’m not saying you don’t lose weight on this diet, I just wanted to enighten some people that only had the information being fed (no pun intended) to them by Atkins, with some objective references.

Everyone here is not on Atkins. I don’t like seeing people being taken advantage of, but everyone here seems to know everything there is about the side effects of the diet. (Or at least they want to believe everything Atkins has told them, without question.)  So far be it for me to even bother trying to help anyone further. The information is right there for anyone who wants to remove the blinders for a second.  There’s no sense in me trying to show it to you, as the saying goes, "You can lead a horse to water…"

Back’atcha.  Read a book once and awhile.  You might learn something. Cheers, Nina — 100% Sweat http://www.theslack.com/diet2.html

Response:

I’m not desperate.  I like lowcarbing and it is working for me and most of the people on the NG.  I appreciate your concern and your need to "warn" us, but honestly, nobody is dropping dead on this diet.

Give it some time… the effects will start to show their ugly face. Fact: eating high protein low/no carb acidifies the body Fact: In an attempt to raise system PH, the body calls on it’s mineral stores Fact: the primary mineral stores are within the bones Fact: EATING LOWCARB WILL de-mineralize your bones THUS lead you into an osteoporotic state…. you will sneeze and fracture your ribs….EEEOUCH! Fact: if you disagree with ANY of the above, you need to research these FACTS! Fact: ten years from now, people will look back at Atkins and his FAD diet and shake their heads and wonder if the horrible effects can be reversed. Fact: The Atkin’s DIE-t WILL go the way of the dinosaurs, leisure suits, AMC Pacers, disco, …etc. Maybe it’s just Atkins’ way of ridding the world of really dumb folk?… YA NEVER KNOW

Response:

And my doctor wanted to put me on medication for the rest of my life to "control" a potential blood pressure problem at the age of 14.  A year’s worth of running a mile every day and the problem disappeared, doctors can’t even explain that one. So, in my opinon, medical doctors rate just about as low as TV evangelists in my books.  BTW, notice how if they have the choice of 5 different mefications to subscribe, they choose the newest, most expensive one by default, unless otherwise instructed? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You know, my Dr. who is a DO BTW told me to go on this diet.  Is he a quack too?  I think not.  If you pay attention to history refined flours and sugars weren’t eaten in the mass quantity that they are now.  In the beginning of the 1800’s people ate only about 10 lbs. of sugar a year.  By the beginning of the 1900’s people were eating 150 lbs. of sugar a year. That is a significant increase, and that’s also the same time obesity went on the rise. I’m sure you’re thinking that people have always eaten bread and potatoes and pasta, and you’re right. But they were eating the bread and pasta from whole grain flour, which is healthier.  I’m sure that people 200 years ago were probably in a state of ketosis all the time..and they all did fine. Dr.Atkins sells his products because there is a need for them.  You don’t have to buy them if you don’t want to though.  I didn’t, I just bought the book is all.  I take my multivitamin from the vitamins I already have.  If I choose to buy shakes, I doubt I’ll buy Atkins since they’re more expensive than another brand I found that does the same thing. You should read Dr.Atkins book BEFORE judging the diet as a whole.  And you should also consider that many of us on this diet were either told to go on it by a Dr. or are under a Dr’s supervision. — -Michelle in Michigan 280/270/170 Atkins since 3-5-01

Response:

You know, my Dr. who is a DO BTW told me to go on this diet.  Is he a quack too?  I think not.  If you pay attention to history refined flours and sugars weren’t eaten in the mass quantity that they are now.  In the beginning of the 1800’s people ate only about 10 lbs. of sugar a year.  By the beginning of the 1900’s people were eating 150 lbs. of sugar a year. That is a significant increase, and that’s also the same time obesity went on the rise. I’m sure you’re thinking that people have always eaten bread and potatoes and pasta, and you’re right. But they were eating the bread and pasta from whole grain flour, which is healthier.  I’m sure that people 200 years ago were probably in a state of ketosis all the time..and they all did fine. Dr.Atkins sells his products because there is a need for them.  You don’t have to buy them if you don’t want to though.  I didn’t, I just bought the book is all.  I take my multivitamin from the vitamins I already have.  If I choose to buy shakes, I doubt I’ll buy Atkins since they’re more expensive than another brand I found that does the same thing. You should read Dr.Atkins book BEFORE judging the diet as a whole.  And you should also consider that many of us on this diet were either told to go on it by a Dr. or are under a Dr’s supervision. — -Michelle in Michigan 280/270/170 Atkins since 3-5-01

Response:

May I assume then that you have no association with the poorly designed home made web page that you quote other than the Britannica site or the products being sold there? You should update FrontPage. Also, I see you post to other diet newsgroups as well. Is this for the betterment of man-kind? How wonderful of you.              :-)     LiLi                              (180/169/125)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t sell anything, actually I work for the Wildlife Conservation Society. I just hate, fads, fashions, pop culture and anything else that worms its way into the mainstream culture by praying on the desperate.  This whole Dr. "Quack" Atkins thing just hits a nerve; a very sore nerve at that! Anyway, I didn’t notice any ads in that message *shrug*. Wow Doc! Looks like you are selling a few products of your own! Is that "for the betterment of man-kind" or your pocketbook? —              :-)     LiLi                              (180/169/125) Read these articles taken form various sites on the Web: ketosis – metabolic disorder marked by high levels of ketones in the tissues and body fluids, including blood and urine. There is less sugar than normal in the blood and less glycogen (the storage form of sugar) in the liver; fat accumulates in the liver, as do amino acids, from which the liver can produce more glycogen. Ketosis may be present in diabetes mellitus. When cattle are affected, they lose weight and produce less milk; dietary adjustment to meet the special requirements of individual cattle helps avoid the condition. (Britannica.com) Now this: With further fasting, lipolysis continues to increase for a few days before it plateaus at a high rate. A large proportion of elevated fatty acids are converted to the "ketone bodies" in the liver, a process enhanced by the high level of glucagon. The brain, previously an avid and fastidious consumer of glucose, begins to use ketones as well as glucose. Eventually, more than one-half of the brain’s daily metabolic energy needs are met by the ketone bodies, thus substantially diminishing the need for hepatic glucose production. The decrease in gluconeogenesis reduces the need for protein-derived amino acids, sparing muscle and making survival during prolonged fasting possible. Starvation is characterized by very low levels of insulin, elevated concentrations of glucagon, and very high concentration of circulating free fatty acids and ketones. (Britannica.com) — When you consume a healthful and supportive diet complete with proteins, carbs, and fats, the carbohydrates are broken down into glucose. Glucose is actually blood sugar. Some of that glucose is transported and stored in muscle tissue as "glycogen." This is sort of the fuel in your fuel tank. That’s important to understand. Glycogen = Fuel. Glycogen is used to produce energy that fuels muscle contraction. ALL muscle contraction! Don’t think of muscle contraction only as exercise. Any movement requires the contraction of muscle, from blinking your eye to rising from bed in the morning. Without glycogen, you don’t have any fuel in the fuel tank. As long as you’re consuming carbs, you continue to re-fuel. You access and burn up stored glycogen, but quickly replace it with new muscle fuel. An understanding of that simple fact, that carbohydrates are the source of muscle fuel should raise an immediate red flag toward anything that suggests eliminating carbs. Once you understand the basic premise behind muscle glycogen, you should understand that the liver also plays a role in fuel storage. Some of the carbs that you eat ultimately wind up stored as liver glycogen. Think of the liver as sort of a "pump" for blood sugar. The brain burns more calories than any other organ in your body, and guess what it uses as its primary source of fuel. Glucose! Carbohydrates! As the brain results in the "burning" of blood glucose, the liver accesses its glycogen stores to keep blood glucose in adequate supply. Again, as you expend glycogen, the carbs that you ingest replete your supply. Atkins asks you to give up carbs. At first you’re doing just fine because you have glycogen stored. After a day or two, you’re using up your stored glycogen and you’re not replacing it. Your body shortly thereafter begins producing ketone bodies. I mentioned Atkins’ praise of a ketotic state already. Let’s look a bit further into this condition. Ketones are intermediaries in the process of metabolizing fat that are found in abnormal amounts in the blood and urine during periods of metabolic impairment. Give up all of your stored glycogen without replacing it and you’re likely going to be in such a state (Note: if you take in too many protein calories, it is possible to avoid carbs and never enter a state of ketosis rendering his low-carb ketosis theories useless). Atkins leads you to believe that the presence of these ketone bodies indicates ongoing fat release. He also assures you that they feed the brain. That is partially true. Here are just a few of the issues he neglects to address: 1. Extended periods of ketosis affect the chemical composition of the blood in such a way that you increase risk of cardiac incident (blood ketoacidosis). 2. In a state of ketoacidosis, carbon dioxide accumulates in the tissues. Oxygen delivery to the cells is impaired. This can lead to a wide range of disastrous consequences ranging from respiratory ailments to metabolic illness. 3. Toxic ammonia buildup resulting from severe cases of ketoacidosis can be lethal. I believe Atkins neglects to share that information with readers. He also neglects to tell you that the liver is called into play to "filter" the abnormal chemicals building up in the blood. This leads to a residual buildup of uric acid. Interestingly, this uric acid accumulation can lead to . . . formation of kidney stones! Kidney stones may be common among low carb dieters, but don’t mistake that for an indication that they’re normal! If all is working optimally, uric acid levels stay quite manageable, the kidneys continue to function normally, and you will likely never have stones accumulating in your urinary tract. (Thefitnesstruth.com) —— I have a lot of friends on low carb diets and for years now I’ve just had a feeling that something wasn’t right, after all, we all didn’t learn the 5 food groups in kindergarten just to throw it away later in life. Dr. Atkins supports the idea of placing your body in a state of Ketosis, in fact, this is what causes his diet to work.  After reading some of those articles above I have to ask "Why?".  Why would anyone want to place their body in this unhealthy state? Here’s a summary of Ketosis.  Your body starts using stored fat cells to provide fuel after the carbs are depleted.  The energy provided to the brain is only a little over 50% of the energy it needs to function, as opposed to the 100% provided by carbohydrates.  Ironically, people in this state of Ketosis don’t realize their reactions are being affected BECAUSE thier brain is operating too slowly to tell (Sorta like being unable to see the forest from the trees). Victims of starvation and insulin dependant diabetics who missed their insulin, are the ones commonly found in this state.  The first two words in the encyclopedia’s entry are "metobolic disorder".  Why then are people flocking to this diet if it requires placing your body in harm’s way? Ketosis is a bodies reaction and defense against illness.  Not only are diabetics found in this sate, anyone who has been sick for prolonged periods of time (Influenza, Bronchitis, etc.) also suffer form Ketosis, since they don’t eat as much as they should and force their body to go into this state of "emergency".  Why do you think people lose weight and look sickly thin when they’ve been sick for a while? I just can’t stress enough how unnatural this is.  It’s unnatural to artificailly place a healthy body in this sate of emergency when everything you need for a healthy living is right there in front of you. I could stand to lose a few pounds myself.  I was tempted to try a diet like this, but declined since it just didn’t sound right.  After reading what I have, I’m glad I did.  I hope some of you out there haven’t been completely suckered ito this diet by Atkins’ promise.  What he sells is a half-truth.  He lives by the phrase "A sucker is born every minute". Think about it, if he was doing this for the betterment of man-kind, why would he sell his products???

Response:

I don’t sell anything, actually I work for the Wildlife Conservation Society. I just hate, fads, fashions, pop culture and anything else that worms its way into the mainstream culture by praying on the desperate.  This whole Dr. "Quack" Atkins thing just hits a nerve; a very sore nerve at that!

Ah, so you’re here to save us from ourselves.  Good chap. Thank you ever so much for your concern regarding my health.  In this day and age of ever-increasing apathy, it heartens me to know that you are looking out for my health needs. Since you have now established yourself to be a virtual "Guardian Angel" over my well-being, I imagine you could and would be agreeable to extending your caring attitude towards the other areas of my life also. Firstly, please contact me as soon as possible so we can discuss my laundry.  I have a back-up of about three loads to do, and could you make sure to do the delicates by hand?   Secondly, Peanut the dog could really use a bath.  Please pick up the special Lytar soap at the Specialty Pet Store.  He could use a nail clip as well.  Then the bathtub will need scrubbing and, well, since you are looking out for my health, please scrub the entire bathroom whilst you’re at it.  Wouldn’t want any of those nasty germs to interfere with my health. Oh, and the car could use some gassing up and then maybe a quick sweep of the apartment.   Doc, love, you’re right up there with Mother Teresa and Princess Di. I’ll notify Stockholm. The Nobel Committmee will want to hear about this! Thanks darling! You’re simply divine. Ta- Nina — 100% Sweat http://www.theslack.com/diet2.html

Response:

Hey, I’m not desperate.  I like lowcarbing and it is working for me and most of the people on the NG.  I appreciate your concern and your need to "warn" us, but honestly, nobody is dropping dead on this diet.  I really have never felt better in my life.  Don’t get me wrong.  In my 20’s, I lost weight on the mainstream, low-fat, high complex carbo diet.  I tried it again, now that I’m in my late 30’s, and it wasn’t happening for me.  However, I started low carb and the pounds are coming off, albeit slowly, but hey, I’m in no hurry.  I personally don’t believe it’s healthy to eat all the carbs I was eating on a "normal" diet.  I don’t think Atkins is a fad diet…he’s been around since the early 70’s.  Maybe you could try the old saying, "Don’t knock it ’til you’ve tried it." Gwendolyn

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t sell anything, actually I work for the Wildlife Conservation Society. I just hate, fads, fashions, pop culture and anything else that worms its way into the mainstream culture by praying on the desperate.  This whole Dr. "Quack" Atkins thing just hits a nerve; a very sore nerve at that! Anyway, I didn’t notice any ads in that message *shrug*. Wow Doc! Looks like you are selling a few products of your own! Is that "for the betterment of man-kind" or your pocketbook? —              :-)     LiLi                              (180/169/125) Read these articles taken form various sites on the Web: ketosis – metabolic disorder marked by high levels of ketones in the tissues and body fluids, including blood and urine. There is less sugar than normal in the blood and less glycogen (the storage form of sugar) in the liver; fat accumulates in the liver, as do amino acids, from which the liver can produce more glycogen. Ketosis may be present in diabetes mellitus. When cattle are affected, they lose weight and produce less milk; dietary adjustment to meet the special requirements of individual cattle helps avoid the condition. (Britannica.com) Now this: With further fasting, lipolysis continues to increase for a few days before it plateaus at a high rate. A large proportion of elevated fatty acids are converted to the "ketone bodies" in the liver, a process enhanced by the high level of glucagon. The brain, previously an avid and fastidious consumer of glucose, begins to use ketones as well as glucose. Eventually, more than one-half of the brain’s daily metabolic energy needs are met by the ketone bodies, thus substantially diminishing the need for hepatic glucose production. The decrease in gluconeogenesis reduces the need for protein-derived amino acids, sparing muscle and making survival during prolonged fasting possible. Starvation is characterized by very low levels of insulin, elevated concentrations of glucagon, and very high concentration of circulating free fatty acids and ketones. (Britannica.com) — When you consume a healthful and supportive diet complete with proteins, carbs, and fats, the carbohydrates are broken down into glucose. Glucose is actually blood sugar. Some of that glucose is transported and stored in muscle tissue as "glycogen." This is sort of the fuel in your fuel tank. That’s important to understand. Glycogen = Fuel. Glycogen is used to produce energy that fuels muscle contraction. ALL muscle contraction! Don’t think of muscle contraction only as exercise. Any movement requires the contraction of muscle, from blinking your eye to rising from bed in the morning. Without glycogen, you don’t have any fuel in the fuel tank. As long as you’re consuming carbs, you continue to re-fuel. You access and burn up stored glycogen, but quickly replace it with new muscle fuel. An understanding of that simple fact, that carbohydrates are the source of muscle fuel should raise an immediate red flag toward anything that suggests eliminating carbs. Once you understand the basic premise behind muscle glycogen, you should understand that the liver also plays a role in fuel storage. Some of the carbs that you eat ultimately wind up stored as liver glycogen. Think of the liver as sort of a "pump" for blood sugar. The brain burns more calories than any other organ in your body, and guess what it uses as its primary source of fuel. Glucose! Carbohydrates! As the brain results in the "burning" of blood glucose, the liver accesses its glycogen stores to keep blood glucose in adequate supply. Again, as you expend glycogen, the carbs that you ingest replete your supply. Atkins asks you to give up carbs. At first you’re doing just fine because you have glycogen stored. After a day or two, you’re using up your stored glycogen and you’re not replacing it. Your body shortly thereafter begins producing ketone bodies. I mentioned Atkins’ praise of a ketotic state already. Let’s look a bit further into this condition. Ketones are intermediaries in the process of metabolizing fat that are found in abnormal amounts in the blood and urine during periods of metabolic impairment. Give up all of your stored glycogen without replacing it and you’re likely going to be in such a state (Note: if you take in too many protein calories, it is possible to avoid carbs and never enter a state of ketosis rendering his low-carb ketosis theories useless). Atkins leads you to believe that the presence of these ketone bodies indicates ongoing fat release. He also assures you that they feed the brain. That is partially true. Here are just a few of the issues he neglects to address: 1. Extended periods of ketosis affect the chemical composition of the blood in such a way that you increase risk of cardiac incident (blood ketoacidosis). 2. In a state of ketoacidosis, carbon dioxide accumulates in the tissues. Oxygen delivery to the cells is impaired. This can lead to a wide range of disastrous consequences ranging from respiratory ailments to metabolic illness. 3. Toxic ammonia buildup resulting from severe cases of ketoacidosis can be lethal. I believe Atkins neglects to share that information with readers. He also neglects to tell you that the liver is called into play to "filter" the abnormal chemicals building up in the blood. This leads to a residual buildup of uric acid. Interestingly, this uric acid accumulation can lead to . . . formation of kidney stones! Kidney stones may be common among low carb dieters, but don’t mistake that for an indication that they’re normal! If all is working optimally, uric acid levels stay quite manageable, the kidneys continue to function normally, and you will likely never have stones accumulating in your urinary tract. (Thefitnesstruth.com) —— I have a lot of friends on low carb diets and for years now I’ve just had a feeling that something wasn’t right, after all, we all didn’t learn the 5 food groups in kindergarten just to throw it away later in life. Dr. Atkins supports the idea of placing your body in a state of Ketosis, in fact, this is what causes his diet to work.  After reading some of those articles above I have to ask "Why?".  Why would anyone want to place their body in this unhealthy state? Here’s a summary of Ketosis.  Your body starts using stored fat cells to provide fuel after the carbs are depleted.  The energy provided to the brain is only a little over 50% of the energy it needs to function, as opposed to the 100% provided by carbohydrates.  Ironically, people in this state of Ketosis don’t realize their reactions are being affected BECAUSE thier brain is operating too slowly to tell (Sorta like being unable to see the forest from the trees). Victims of starvation and insulin dependant diabetics who missed their insulin, are the ones commonly found in this state.  The first two words in the encyclopedia’s entry are "metobolic disorder".  Why then are people flocking to this diet if it requires placing your body in harm’s way? Ketosis is a bodies reaction and defense against illness.  Not only are diabetics found in this sate, anyone who has been sick for prolonged periods of time (Influenza, Bronchitis, etc.) also suffer form Ketosis, since they don’t eat as much as they should and force their body to go into this state of "emergency".  Why do you think people lose weight and look sickly thin when they’ve been sick for a while? I just can’t stress enough how unnatural this is.  It’s unnatural to artificailly place a healthy body in this sate of emergency when everything you need for a healthy living is right there in front of you. I could stand to lose a few pounds myself.  I was tempted to try a diet like this, but declined since it just didn’t sound right.  After reading what I have, I’m glad I did.  I hope some of you out there haven’t been completely suckered ito this diet by Atkins’ promise.  What he sells is a half-truth.  He lives by the phrase "A sucker is born every minute". Think about it, if he was doing this for the betterment of man-kind, why would he sell his products???

Response:

Cute. Lets examine some of your quotations and conclusions… Read these articles taken form various sites on the Web: ketosis – metabolic disorder marked by high levels of ketones in the tissues and body fluids, including blood and urine. There is less sugar than normal in the blood and less glycogen (the storage form of sugar) in the liver; fat accumulates in the liver, as do amino acids, from which the liver can produce more glycogen. Ketosis may be present in diabetes mellitus. When cattle are affected, they lose weight and produce less milk; dietary adjustment to meet the special requirements of individual cattle helps avoid the condition. (Britannica.com)

Ketoacidosis is not ketosis. Very different states. Ketoacidosis is indeed life threatening and must be treated immediately. Ketoacidosis is generally caused by diabetes which is out of control. Diabetes (except type I diabetes) is caused by carbohydrate metabolism. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Now this: With further fasting, lipolysis continues to increase for a few days before it plateaus at a high rate. A large proportion of elevated fatty acids are converted to the "ketone bodies" in the liver, a process enhanced by the high level of glucagon. The brain, previously an avid and fastidious consumer of glucose, begins to use ketones as well as glucose. Eventually, more than one-half of the brain’s daily metabolic energy needs are met by the ketone bodies, thus substantially diminishing the need for hepatic glucose production. The decrease in gluconeogenesis reduces the need for protein-derived amino acids, sparing muscle and making survival during prolonged fasting possible. Starvation is characterized by very low levels of insulin, elevated concentrations of glucagon, and very high concentration of circulating free fatty acids and ketones. (Britannica.com) —

Ketosis from low carbohydrate consumption is not the same state as ketosis from starvation. Whatever diet you may be on, starvation is bad news. When you consume a healthful and supportive diet complete with proteins, carbs, and fats, the carbohydrates are broken down into glucose. Glucose is actually blood sugar. Some of that glucose is transported and stored in muscle tissue as "glycogen." This is sort of the fuel in your fuel tank. That’s important to understand. Glycogen = Fuel.

Your body can burn sugar for fuel. It can also burn ethanol. And it can burn fat. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Glycogen is used to produce energy that fuels muscle contraction. ALL muscle contraction! Don’t think of muscle contraction only as exercise. Any movement requires the contraction of muscle, from blinking your eye to rising from bed in the morning. Without glycogen, you don’t have any fuel in the fuel tank. As long as you’re consuming carbs, you continue to re-fuel. You access and burn up stored glycogen, but quickly replace it with new muscle fuel. An understanding of that simple fact, that carbohydrates are the source of muscle fuel should raise an immediate red flag toward anything that suggests eliminating carbs. Once you understand the basic premise behind muscle glycogen, you should understand that the liver also plays a role in fuel storage. Some of the carbs that you eat ultimately wind up stored as liver glycogen. Think of the liver as sort of a "pump" for blood sugar. The brain burns more calories than any other organ in your body, and guess what it uses as its primary source of fuel. Glucose! Carbohydrates! As the brain results in the "burning" of blood glucose, the liver accesses its glycogen stores to keep blood glucose in adequate supply. Again, as you expend glycogen, the carbs that you ingest replete your supply. Atkins asks you to give up carbs. At first you’re doing just fine because you have glycogen stored. After a day or two, you’re using up your stored glycogen and you’re not replacing it. Your body shortly thereafter begins producing ketone bodies. I mentioned Atkins’ praise of a ketotic state already. Let’s look a bit further into this condition. Ketones are intermediaries in the process of metabolizing fat that are found in abnormal amounts in the blood and urine during periods of

How do you determine what is abnormal here? Ketones are normally present in fat metabolism, normally absent in carbohydrate metabolism. metabolic impairment. Give up all of your stored glycogen without replacing it and you’re likely going to be in such a state (Note: if you take in too many protein calories, it is possible to avoid carbs and never enter a state of ketosis rendering his low-carb ketosis theories useless). Atkins leads you to believe that the presence of these ketone bodies indicates ongoing fat release. He also assures you that they feed the brain. That is partially true. Here are just a few of the issues he neglects to address: 1. Extended periods of ketosis affect the chemical composition of the blood in such a way that you increase risk of cardiac incident (blood ketoacidosis).

No. Ketosis is not ketoacidosis. 2. In a state of ketoacidosis, carbon dioxide accumulates in the tissues. Oxygen delivery to the cells is impaired. This can lead to a wide range of disastrous consequences ranging from respiratory ailments to metabolic illness.

Also sudden death. But nobody deliberately induces ketoacidosis. 3. Toxic ammonia buildup resulting from severe cases of ketoacidosis can be lethal.

Yes. I believe Atkins neglects to share that information with readers. He

Since Dr. Atkins does not propose the inducement of a ketoacidotic state, he doesn’t generally warn his readers against that — though he does advise that ketosis is not ketoacidosis. also neglects to tell you that the liver is called into play to "filter" the abnormal chemicals building up in the blood. This leads to a

What abnormal chemicals? residual buildup of uric acid. Interestingly, this uric acid accumulation can lead to . . . formation of kidney stones!

Where did you come up with this. I have been in a state of ketosis over 7 months. Just had blood work done. No abnormal chemicals noted in the blood work. Kidney function is doing great. Kidney stones may be common among low carb dieters, but don’t mistake that for an indication that they’re normal! If all is working optimally, uric acid levels stay quite manageable, the kidneys continue to function normally, and you will likely never have stones accumulating in your urinary tract.

What makes you think that kidney stones are common among low carb eaters. Where did you get that idea? (Thefitnesstruth.com) —— I have a lot of friends on low carb diets and for years now I’ve just had a feeling that something wasn’t right, after all, we all didn’t learn the 5 food groups in kindergarten just to throw it away later in life.

I learned a lot before I was six that I discarded when I was 7. Dr. Atkins supports the idea of placing your body in a state of Ketosis, in fact, this is what causes his diet to work.  After reading some of those articles above I have to ask "Why?".  Why would anyone want to place their body in this unhealthy state?

What makes you think this is an unhealthy state? Here’s a summary of Ketosis.  Your body starts using stored fat cells to provide fuel after the carbs are depleted.  The energy provided to the brain is only a little over 50% of the energy it needs to function, as opposed to the 100% provided by carbohydrates.  Ironically, people in this state of Ketosis don’t realize their reactions are being affected BECAUSE thier brain is operating too slowly to tell (Sorta like being unable to see the forest from the trees).

That is actually funny. The brain and red blood cells do need sugar. They get all they need during ketosis by the conversion of protein to sugar. All the cells of your body need fat and are quite happy using fat for energy. I run a health care facility — a very demanding job. If my brain has been slowed down so much that I can’t even notice it, don’t you think everyone else would? Don’t you think my wife would notice that I had suddenly become slow and stupid? Victims of starvation and insulin dependant diabetics who missed their insulin, are the ones commonly found in this state.  The first two words in the encyclopedia’s entry are "metobolic disorder".  Why then are people flocking to this diet if it requires placing your body in harm’s way?

Diabetic ketoacidosis is indeed a metabolic disorder caused by the body’s inability to tolerate sugar. I certainly believe that it is wise to avoid diabetic ketoacidosis. A low carbohydrate diet is the best way to avoid that condition. Ketosis is a bodies reaction and defense against illness.  Not only are diabetics found in this sate, anyone who has been sick for prolonged periods of time (Influenza, Bronchitis, etc.) also suffer form Ketosis, since they don’t eat as much as they should and force their body to go into this state of "emergency".  Why do you think people lose weight and look sickly thin when they’ve been sick for a while?

What makes you say that ketosis is an ‘emergency state’? It is a quite normal state. The body can burn sugar (which results in one state) or fat (which results in another state). Why do you feel that one state is normal while the other is not? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just can’t stress enough how unnatural this is.  It’s unnatural to artificailly place a healthy body in this sate of emergency when everything you need for a healthy living is right there in front of you. I could stand to lose a few pounds myself.  I was tempted to try a diet like this, but declined since it just didn’t sound right.  After reading what I have, I’m glad I did.  I hope some

… read more »

Response:

Actually, in my biochem med class Yesterday I asked my professor… the brain actually prefers ketones… and she showed me. The brain doesn’t like glucose. I’d like to see a study with IQ and diet… it wouldn’t surprise me if (with a large sample size), we could show higher scores under Ketosis. That article, was… incorrect. I’ll agree with you about the media… science and health are reported inaccurately more then half the time. The fat craze is one great example. Study after study show that a calorie is a calorie is a calorie.. yet people actually try to cut back on Fat. I bet there are still doctors out there who think ulcers are related to stress… that was disproved.. its a bacterial infection… within a few years we will see the atkins diet become the diet. FDA should take over the nutrition business… why our food suppliers are telling us what is healthy is beyond me. American Heart Association Labels on Apple Jacks… get real. Just as grain production increased the pyramid… and the ratios provided (servings) is remarkably close to the grain surplus when divided spastically. I take it you probably don’t have a weight problem… or if you did… u may have been one of those who just ate too da*n much. I have no respect for those people at all. My doctor (MD, duel PhD (biochem) was the one who recommended it. Along with my sisters endocrinologist who is #1 in the world right now.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t sell anything, actually I work for the Wildlife Conservation Society. I just hate, fads, fashions, pop culture and anything else that worms its way into the mainstream culture by praying on the desperate.  This whole Dr. "Quack" Atkins thing just hits a nerve; a very sore nerve at that! Anyway, I didn’t notice any ads in that message *shrug*. Wow Doc! Looks like you are selling a few products of your own! Is that "for the betterment of man-kind" or your pocketbook? —              :-)     LiLi                              (180/169/125) Read these articles taken form various sites on the Web: ketosis – metabolic disorder marked by high levels of ketones in the tissues and body fluids, including blood and urine. There is less sugar than normal in the blood and less glycogen (the storage form of sugar) in the liver; fat accumulates in the liver, as do amino acids, from which the liver can produce more glycogen. Ketosis may be present in diabetes mellitus. When cattle are affected, they lose weight and produce less milk; dietary adjustment to meet the special requirements of individual cattle helps avoid the condition. (Britannica.com) Now this: With further fasting, lipolysis continues to increase for a few days before it plateaus at a high rate. A large proportion of elevated fatty acids are converted to the "ketone bodies" in the liver, a process enhanced by the high level of glucagon. The brain, previously an avid and fastidious consumer of glucose, begins to use ketones as well as glucose. Eventually, more than one-half of the brain’s daily metabolic energy needs are met by the ketone bodies, thus substantially diminishing the need for hepatic glucose production. The decrease in gluconeogenesis reduces the need for protein-derived amino acids, sparing muscle and making survival during prolonged fasting possible. Starvation is characterized by very low levels of insulin, elevated concentrations of glucagon, and very high concentration of circulating free fatty acids and ketones. (Britannica.com) — When you consume a healthful and supportive diet complete with proteins, carbs, and fats, the carbohydrates are broken down into glucose. Glucose is actually blood sugar. Some of that glucose is transported and stored in muscle tissue as "glycogen." This is sort of the fuel in your fuel tank. That’s important to understand. Glycogen = Fuel. Glycogen is used to produce energy that fuels muscle contraction. ALL muscle contraction! Don’t think of muscle contraction only as exercise. Any movement requires the contraction of muscle, from blinking your eye to rising from bed in the morning. Without glycogen, you don’t have any fuel in the fuel tank. As long as you’re consuming carbs, you continue to re-fuel. You access and burn up stored glycogen, but quickly replace it with new muscle fuel. An understanding of that simple fact, that carbohydrates are the source of muscle fuel should raise an immediate red flag toward anything that suggests eliminating carbs. Once you understand the basic premise behind muscle glycogen, you should understand that the liver also plays a role in fuel storage. Some of the carbs that you eat ultimately wind up stored as liver glycogen. Think of the liver as sort of a "pump" for blood sugar. The brain burns more calories than any other organ in your body, and guess what it uses as its primary source of fuel. Glucose! Carbohydrates! As the brain results in the "burning" of blood glucose, the liver accesses its glycogen stores to keep blood glucose in adequate supply. Again, as you expend glycogen, the carbs that you ingest replete your supply. Atkins asks you to give up carbs. At first you’re doing just fine because you have glycogen stored. After a day or two, you’re using up your stored glycogen and you’re not replacing it. Your body shortly thereafter begins producing ketone bodies. I mentioned Atkins’ praise of a ketotic state already. Let’s look a bit further into this condition. Ketones are intermediaries in the process of metabolizing fat that are found in abnormal amounts in the blood and urine during periods of metabolic impairment. Give up all of your stored glycogen without replacing it and you’re likely going to be in such a state (Note: if you take in too many protein calories, it is possible to avoid carbs and never enter a state of ketosis rendering his low-carb ketosis theories useless). Atkins leads you to believe that the presence of these ketone bodies indicates ongoing fat release. He also assures you that they feed the brain. That is partially true. Here are just a few of the issues he neglects to address: 1. Extended periods of ketosis affect the chemical composition of the blood in such a way that you increase risk of cardiac incident (blood ketoacidosis). 2. In a state of ketoacidosis, carbon dioxide accumulates in the tissues. Oxygen delivery to the cells is impaired. This can lead to a wide range of disastrous consequences ranging from respiratory ailments to metabolic illness. 3. Toxic ammonia buildup resulting from severe cases of ketoacidosis can be lethal. I believe Atkins neglects to share that information with readers. He also neglects to tell you that the liver is called into play to "filter" the abnormal chemicals building up in the blood. This leads to a residual buildup of uric acid. Interestingly, this uric acid accumulation can lead to . . . formation of kidney stones! Kidney stones may be common among low carb dieters, but don’t mistake that for an indication that they’re normal! If all is working optimally, uric acid levels stay quite manageable, the kidneys continue to function normally, and you will likely never have stones accumulating in your urinary tract. (Thefitnesstruth.com) —— I have a lot of friends on low carb diets and for years now I’ve just had a feeling that something wasn’t right, after all, we all didn’t learn the 5 food groups in kindergarten just to throw it away later in life. Dr. Atkins supports the idea of placing your body in a state of Ketosis, in fact, this is what causes his diet to work.  After reading some of those articles above I have to ask "Why?".  Why would anyone want to place their body in this unhealthy state? Here’s a summary of Ketosis.  Your body starts using stored fat cells to provide fuel after the carbs are depleted.  The energy provided to the brain is only a little over 50% of the energy it needs to function, as opposed to the 100% provided by carbohydrates.  Ironically, people in this state of Ketosis don’t realize their reactions are being affected BECAUSE thier brain is operating too slowly to tell (Sorta like being unable to see the forest from the trees). Victims of starvation and insulin dependant diabetics who missed their insulin, are the ones commonly found in this state.  The first two words in the encyclopedia’s entry are "metobolic disorder".  Why then are people flocking to this diet if it requires placing your body in harm’s way? Ketosis is a bodies reaction and defense against illness.  Not only are diabetics found in this sate, anyone who has been sick for prolonged periods of time (Influenza, Bronchitis, etc.) also suffer form Ketosis, since they don’t eat as much as they should and force their body to go into this state of "emergency".  Why do you think people lose weight and look sickly thin when they’ve been sick for a while? I just can’t stress enough how unnatural this is.  It’s unnatural to artificailly place a healthy body in this sate of emergency when

… read more »

Response:

OH BROTHER!!! I am not even going to go into trying to explain the safety and medical aspect of this diet – except to point out that Dr. Atkins is a Doctor, a cardiologist, in fact. Go buy his book. And there is a HUGE difference between ketosis and KETOACIDOSIS or Diabetic Ketoacidosis or DKA. After reading your "interesting" post, I went and did some research that would put the difference into simple English. I don’t know what your agenda is, but here is what I found from emedicine.com and thestream.com: KETOSIS "Ketosis is a metabolic state in which the body will burn fat for fuel and is producing "ketones" (also called ketone bodies) as a byproduct. This change in metabolism occurs when the body no longer has a supply of carbohydrates to produce glycogen and after the liver has been depleted of stored glycogen. When either stored body fat or incoming dietary fat is used as fuel it breaks down into ketones. Ketones can be used as fuel for your body or discarded via your breath or urination. It is the rise in ketone production that means you are "in ketosis". Take note that although you are in ketosis this does not mean that you are *only* burning body fat. The released ketones may be from either body fat or dietary fat. Obviously, since we are trying to lose weight, we want to be in a metabolic state where body fat is being burned off.  Therefore, understanding the biochemical foundation of ketosis, we cut starches and sugars, this is called "low carbing", and  without incoming carbs, and without consuming too many grams of dietary fat or protein, our bodies will be burning stored body fat as fuel. Positive side effects of being in ketosis are that it can be protein sparing (allowing us to retain lean body mass) and that it can lead to a decrease in appetite, for some people." KETOACIDOSIS on the other hand is caused by hyperglycemia which causes an osmotic diuresis that leads to excessive loss of free water and electrolytes. Resultant hypovolemia leads to tissue hypoperfusion and lactic acidosis. The danger from electrolyte imbalances are the consequences of hyperglycemia, hyperosmolality and acidosis. CARB DIET "This biochemical process is safe. It is not a "fad" diet, it is one that our ancestors at almost exclusively. High in lean meats, fresh fruits and vegetables, low in most carbohydrates.  For a typical American at least 70% of calories are provided by foods that were practically unavailable early human times, namely processed foods such as oils, margarine, refined sugar and cereals. These typical western foods are low in minerals, vitamins and soluble fiber but high in fat and salt. There is much evidence indicating that some of these dietary factors are important causes of common western disorders like CORONARY HEART DISEASE, STROKE and DIABETES.  Rather than being harmful, there is mounting evidence that the low carbohydrate diet is extremely helpful."

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Read these articles taken form various sites on the Web: ketosis – metabolic disorder marked by high levels of ketones in the tissues and body fluids, including blood and urine. There is less sugar than normal in the blood and less glycogen (the storage form of sugar) in the liver; fat accumulates in the liver, as do amino acids, from which the liver can produce more glycogen. Ketosis may be present in diabetes mellitus. When cattle are affected, they lose weight and produce less milk; dietary adjustment to meet the special requirements of individual cattle helps avoid the condition. (Britannica.com) Now this: With further fasting, lipolysis continues to increase for a few days before it plateaus at a high rate. A large proportion of elevated fatty acids are converted to the "ketone bodies" in the liver, a process enhanced by the high level of glucagon. The brain, previously an avid and fastidious consumer of glucose, begins to use ketones as well as glucose. Eventually, more than one-half of the brain’s daily metabolic energy needs are met by the ketone bodies, thus substantially diminishing the need for hepatic glucose production. The decrease in gluconeogenesis reduces the need for protein-derived amino acids, sparing muscle and making survival during prolonged fasting possible. Starvation is characterized by very low levels of insulin, elevated concentrations of glucagon, and very high concentration of circulating free fatty acids and ketones. (Britannica.com) — When you consume a healthful and supportive diet complete with proteins, carbs, and fats, the carbohydrates are broken down into glucose. Glucose is actually blood sugar. Some of that glucose is transported and stored in muscle tissue as "glycogen." This is sort of the fuel in your fuel tank. That’s important to understand. Glycogen = Fuel. Glycogen is used to produce energy that fuels muscle contraction. ALL muscle contraction! Don’t think of muscle contraction only as exercise. Any movement requires the contraction of muscle, from blinking your eye to rising from bed in the morning. Without glycogen, you don’t have any fuel in the fuel tank. As long as you’re consuming carbs, you continue to re-fuel. You access and burn up stored glycogen, but quickly replace it with new muscle fuel. An understanding of that simple fact, that carbohydrates are the source of muscle fuel should raise an immediate red flag toward anything that suggests eliminating carbs. Once you understand the basic premise behind muscle glycogen, you should understand that the liver also plays a role in fuel storage. Some of the carbs that you eat ultimately wind up stored as liver glycogen. Think of the liver as sort of a "pump" for blood sugar. The brain burns more calories than any other organ in your body, and guess what it uses as its primary source of fuel. Glucose! Carbohydrates! As the brain results in the "burning" of blood glucose, the liver accesses its glycogen stores to keep blood glucose in adequate supply. Again, as you expend glycogen, the carbs that you ingest replete your supply. Atkins asks you to give up carbs. At first you’re doing just fine because you have glycogen stored. After a day or two, you’re using up your stored glycogen and you’re not replacing it. Your body shortly thereafter begins producing ketone bodies. I mentioned Atkins’ praise of a ketotic state already. Let’s look a bit further into this condition. Ketones are intermediaries in the process of metabolizing fat that are found in abnormal amounts in the blood and urine during periods of metabolic impairment. Give up all of your stored glycogen without replacing it and you’re likely going to be in such a state (Note: if you take in too many protein calories, it is possible to avoid carbs and never enter a state of ketosis rendering his low-carb ketosis theories useless). Atkins leads you to believe that the presence of these ketone bodies indicates ongoing fat release. He also assures you that they feed the brain. That is partially true. Here are just a few of the issues he neglects to address: 1. Extended periods of ketosis affect the chemical composition of the blood in such a way that you increase risk of cardiac incident (blood ketoacidosis). 2. In a state of ketoacidosis, carbon dioxide accumulates in the tissues. Oxygen delivery to the cells is impaired. This can lead to a wide range of disastrous consequences ranging from respiratory ailments to metabolic illness. 3. Toxic ammonia buildup resulting from severe cases of ketoacidosis can be lethal. I believe Atkins neglects to share that information with readers. He also neglects to tell you that the liver is called into play to "filter" the abnormal chemicals building up in the blood. This leads to a residual buildup of uric acid. Interestingly, this uric acid accumulation can lead to . . . formation of kidney stones! Kidney stones may be common among low carb dieters, but don’t mistake that for an indication that they’re normal! If all is working optimally, uric acid levels stay quite manageable, the kidneys continue to function normally, and you will likely never have stones accumulating in your urinary tract. (Thefitnesstruth.com) —— I have a lot of friends on low carb diets and for years now I’ve just had a feeling that something wasn’t right, after all, we all didn’t learn the 5 food groups in kindergarten just to throw it away later in life. Dr. Atkins supports the idea of placing your body in a state of Ketosis, in fact, this is what causes his diet to work.  After reading some of those articles above I have to ask "Why?".  Why would anyone want to place their body in this unhealthy state? Here’s a summary of Ketosis.  Your body starts using stored fat cells to provide fuel after the carbs are depleted.  The energy provided to the brain is only a little over 50% of the energy it needs to function, as opposed to the 100% provided by carbohydrates.  Ironically, people in this state of Ketosis don’t realize their reactions are being affected BECAUSE thier brain is operating too slowly to tell (Sorta like being unable to see the forest from the trees). Victims of starvation and insulin dependant diabetics who missed their insulin, are the ones commonly found in this state.  The first two words in the encyclopedia’s entry are "metobolic disorder".  Why then are people flocking to this diet if it requires placing your body in harm’s way? Ketosis is a bodies reaction and defense against illness.  Not only are diabetics found in this sate, anyone who has been sick for prolonged periods of time (Influenza, Bronchitis, etc.) also suffer form Ketosis,

… read more »

Response:

I don’t sell anything, actually I work for the Wildlife Conservation Society. I just hate, fads, fashions, pop culture and anything else that worms its way into the mainstream culture by praying on the desperate.  This whole Dr. "Quack" Atkins thing just hits a nerve; a very sore nerve at that! Anyway, I didn’t notice any ads in that message *shrug*. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wow Doc! Looks like you are selling a few products of your own! Is that "for the betterment of man-kind" or your pocketbook? —              :-)     LiLi                              (180/169/125) Read these articles taken form various sites on the Web: ketosis – metabolic disorder marked by high levels of ketones in the tissues and body fluids, including blood and urine. There is less sugar than normal in the blood and less glycogen (the storage form of sugar) in the liver; fat accumulates in the liver, as do amino acids, from which the liver can produce more glycogen. Ketosis may be present in diabetes mellitus. When cattle are affected, they lose weight and produce less milk; dietary adjustment to meet the special requirements of individual cattle helps avoid the condition. (Britannica.com) Now this: With further fasting, lipolysis continues to increase for a few days before it plateaus at a high rate. A large proportion of elevated fatty acids are converted to the "ketone bodies" in the liver, a process enhanced by the high level of glucagon. The brain, previously an avid and fastidious consumer of glucose, begins to use ketones as well as glucose. Eventually, more than one-half of the brain’s daily metabolic energy needs are met by the ketone bodies, thus substantially diminishing the need for hepatic glucose production. The decrease in gluconeogenesis reduces the need for protein-derived amino acids, sparing muscle and making survival during prolonged fasting possible. Starvation is characterized by very low levels of insulin, elevated concentrations of glucagon, and very high concentration of circulating free fatty acids and ketones. (Britannica.com) — When you consume a healthful and supportive diet complete with proteins, carbs, and fats, the carbohydrates are broken down into glucose. Glucose is actually blood sugar. Some of that glucose is transported and stored in muscle tissue as "glycogen." This is sort of the fuel in your fuel tank. That’s important to understand. Glycogen = Fuel. Glycogen is used to produce energy that fuels muscle contraction. ALL muscle contraction! Don’t think of muscle contraction only as exercise. Any movement requires the contraction of muscle, from blinking your eye to rising from bed in the morning. Without glycogen, you don’t have any fuel in the fuel tank. As long as you’re consuming carbs, you continue to re-fuel. You access and burn up stored glycogen, but quickly replace it with new muscle fuel. An understanding of that simple fact, that carbohydrates are the source of muscle fuel should raise an immediate red flag toward anything that suggests eliminating carbs. Once you understand the basic premise behind muscle glycogen, you should understand that the liver also plays a role in fuel storage. Some of the carbs that you eat ultimately wind up stored as liver glycogen. Think of the liver as sort of a "pump" for blood sugar. The brain burns more calories than any other organ in your body, and guess what it uses as its primary source of fuel. Glucose! Carbohydrates! As the brain results in the "burning" of blood glucose, the liver accesses its glycogen stores to keep blood glucose in adequate supply. Again, as you expend glycogen, the carbs that you ingest replete your supply. Atkins asks you to give up carbs. At first you’re doing just fine because you have glycogen stored. After a day or two, you’re using up your stored glycogen and you’re not replacing it. Your body shortly thereafter begins producing ketone bodies. I mentioned Atkins’ praise of a ketotic state already. Let’s look a bit further into this condition. Ketones are intermediaries in the process of metabolizing fat that are found in abnormal amounts in the blood and urine during periods of metabolic impairment. Give up all of your stored glycogen without replacing it and you’re likely going to be in such a state (Note: if you take in too many protein calories, it is possible to avoid carbs and never enter a state of ketosis rendering his low-carb ketosis theories useless). Atkins leads you to believe that the presence of these ketone bodies indicates ongoing fat release. He also assures you that they feed the brain. That is partially true. Here are just a few of the issues he neglects to address: 1. Extended periods of ketosis affect the chemical composition of the blood in such a way that you increase risk of cardiac incident (blood ketoacidosis). 2. In a state of ketoacidosis, carbon dioxide accumulates in the tissues. Oxygen delivery to the cells is impaired. This can lead to a wide range of disastrous consequences ranging from respiratory ailments to metabolic illness. 3. Toxic ammonia buildup resulting from severe cases of ketoacidosis can be lethal. I believe Atkins neglects to share that information with readers. He also neglects to tell you that the liver is called into play to "filter" the abnormal chemicals building up in the blood. This leads to a residual buildup of uric acid. Interestingly, this uric acid accumulation can lead to . . . formation of kidney stones! Kidney stones may be common among low carb dieters, but don’t mistake that for an indication that they’re normal! If all is working optimally, uric acid levels stay quite manageable, the kidneys continue to function normally, and you will likely never have stones accumulating in your urinary tract. (Thefitnesstruth.com) —— I have a lot of friends on low carb diets and for years now I’ve just had a feeling that something wasn’t right, after all, we all didn’t learn the 5 food groups in kindergarten just to throw it away later in life. Dr. Atkins supports the idea of placing your body in a state of Ketosis, in fact, this is what causes his diet to work.  After reading some of those articles above I have to ask "Why?".  Why would anyone want to place their body in this unhealthy state? Here’s a summary of Ketosis.  Your body starts using stored fat cells to provide fuel after the carbs are depleted.  The energy provided to the brain is only a little over 50% of the energy it needs to function, as opposed to the 100% provided by carbohydrates.  Ironically, people in this state of Ketosis don’t realize their reactions are being affected BECAUSE thier brain is operating too slowly to tell (Sorta like being unable to see the forest from the trees). Victims of starvation and insulin dependant diabetics who missed their insulin, are the ones commonly found in this state.  The first two words in the encyclopedia’s entry are "metobolic disorder".  Why then are people flocking to this diet if it requires placing your body in harm’s way? Ketosis is a bodies reaction and defense against illness.  Not only are diabetics found in this sate, anyone who has been sick for prolonged periods of time (Influenza, Bronchitis, etc.) also suffer form Ketosis, since they don’t eat as much as they should and force their body to go into this state of "emergency".  Why do you think people lose weight and look sickly thin when they’ve been sick for a while? I just can’t stress enough how unnatural this is.  It’s unnatural to artificailly place a healthy body in this sate of emergency when everything you need for a healthy living is right there in front of you. I could stand to lose a few pounds myself.  I was tempted to try a diet like this, but declined since it just didn’t sound right.  After reading what I have, I’m glad I did.  I hope some of you out there haven’t been completely suckered ito this diet by Atkins’ promise.  What he sells is a half-truth.  He lives by the phrase "A sucker is born every minute". Think about it, if he was doing this for the betterment of man-kind, why would he sell his products???

Response:

Wow Doc! Looks like you are selling a few products of your own! Is that "for the betterment of man-kind" or your pocketbook? —              :-)     LiLi                              (180/169/125)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Read these articles taken form various sites on the Web: ketosis – metabolic disorder marked by high levels of ketones in the tissues and body fluids, including blood and urine. There is less sugar than normal in the blood and less glycogen (the storage form of sugar) in the liver; fat accumulates in the liver, as do amino acids, from which the liver can produce more glycogen. Ketosis may be present in diabetes mellitus. When cattle are affected, they lose weight and produce less milk; dietary adjustment to meet the special requirements of individual cattle helps avoid the condition. (Britannica.com) Now this: With further fasting, lipolysis continues to increase for a few days before it plateaus at a high rate. A large proportion of elevated fatty acids are converted to the "ketone bodies" in the liver, a process enhanced by the high level of glucagon. The brain, previously an avid and fastidious consumer of glucose, begins to use ketones as well as glucose. Eventually, more than one-half of the brain’s daily metabolic energy needs are met by the ketone bodies, thus substantially diminishing the need for hepatic glucose production. The decrease in gluconeogenesis reduces the need for protein-derived amino acids, sparing muscle and making survival during prolonged fasting possible. Starvation is characterized by very low levels of insulin, elevated concentrations of glucagon, and very high concentration of circulating free fatty acids and ketones. (Britannica.com) — When you consume a healthful and supportive diet complete with proteins, carbs, and fats, the carbohydrates are broken down into glucose. Glucose is actually blood sugar. Some of that glucose is transported and stored in muscle tissue as "glycogen." This is sort of the fuel in your fuel tank. That’s important to understand. Glycogen = Fuel. Glycogen is used to produce energy that fuels muscle contraction. ALL muscle contraction! Don’t think of muscle contraction only as exercise. Any movement requires the contraction of muscle, from blinking your eye to rising from bed in the morning. Without glycogen, you don’t have any fuel in the fuel tank. As long as you’re consuming carbs, you continue to re-fuel. You access and burn up stored glycogen, but quickly replace it with new muscle fuel. An understanding of that simple fact, that carbohydrates are the source of muscle fuel should raise an immediate red flag toward anything that suggests eliminating carbs. Once you understand the basic premise behind muscle glycogen, you should understand that the liver also plays a role in fuel storage. Some of the carbs that you eat ultimately wind up stored as liver glycogen. Think of the liver as sort of a "pump" for blood sugar. The brain burns more calories than any other organ in your body, and guess what it uses as its primary source of fuel. Glucose! Carbohydrates! As the brain results in the "burning" of blood glucose, the liver accesses its glycogen stores to keep blood glucose in adequate supply. Again, as you expend glycogen, the carbs that you ingest replete your supply. Atkins asks you to give up carbs. At first you’re doing just fine because you have glycogen stored. After a day or two, you’re using up your stored glycogen and you’re not replacing it. Your body shortly thereafter begins producing ketone bodies. I mentioned Atkins’ praise of a ketotic state already. Let’s look a bit further into this condition. Ketones are intermediaries in the process of metabolizing fat that are found in abnormal amounts in the blood and urine during periods of metabolic impairment. Give up all of your stored glycogen without replacing it and you’re likely going to be in such a state (Note: if you take in too many protein calories, it is possible to avoid carbs and never enter a state of ketosis rendering his low-carb ketosis theories useless). Atkins leads you to believe that the presence of these ketone bodies indicates ongoing fat release. He also assures you that they feed the brain. That is partially true. Here are just a few of the issues he neglects to address: 1. Extended periods of ketosis affect the chemical composition of the blood in such a way that you increase risk of cardiac incident (blood ketoacidosis). 2. In a state of ketoacidosis, carbon dioxide accumulates in the tissues. Oxygen delivery to the cells is impaired. This can lead to a wide range of disastrous consequences ranging from respiratory ailments to metabolic illness. 3. Toxic ammonia buildup resulting from severe cases of ketoacidosis can be lethal. I believe Atkins neglects to share that information with readers. He also neglects to tell you that the liver is called into play to "filter" the abnormal chemicals building up in the blood. This leads to a residual buildup of uric acid. Interestingly, this uric acid accumulation can lead to . . . formation of kidney stones! Kidney stones may be common among low carb dieters, but don’t mistake that for an indication that they’re normal! If all is working optimally, uric acid levels stay quite manageable, the kidneys continue to function normally, and you will likely never have stones accumulating in your urinary tract. (Thefitnesstruth.com) —— I have a lot of friends on low carb diets and for years now I’ve just had a feeling that something wasn’t right, after all, we all didn’t learn the 5 food groups in kindergarten just to throw it away later in life. Dr. Atkins supports the idea of placing your body in a state of Ketosis, in fact, this is what causes his diet to work.  After reading some of those articles above I have to ask "Why?".  Why would anyone want to place their body in this unhealthy state? Here’s a summary of Ketosis.  Your body starts using stored fat cells to provide fuel after the carbs are depleted.  The energy provided to the brain is only a little over 50% of the energy it needs to function, as opposed to the 100% provided by carbohydrates.  Ironically, people in this state of Ketosis don’t realize their reactions are being affected BECAUSE thier brain is operating too slowly to tell (Sorta like being unable to see the forest from the trees). Victims of starvation and insulin dependant diabetics who missed their insulin, are the ones commonly found in this state.  The first two words in the encyclopedia’s entry are "metobolic disorder".  Why then are people flocking to this diet if it requires placing your body in harm’s way? Ketosis is a bodies reaction and defense against illness.  Not only are diabetics found in this sate, anyone who has been sick for prolonged periods of time (Influenza, Bronchitis, etc.) also suffer form Ketosis, since they don’t eat as much as they should and force their body to go into this state of "emergency".  Why do you think people lose weight and look sickly thin when they’ve been sick for a while? I just can’t stress enough how unnatural this is.  It’s unnatural to artificailly place a healthy body in this sate of emergency when everything you need for a healthy living is right there in front of you. I could stand to lose a few pounds myself.  I was tempted to try a diet like this, but declined since it just didn’t sound right.  After reading what I have, I’m glad I did.  I hope some of you out there haven’t been completely suckered ito this diet by Atkins’ promise.  What he sells is a half-truth.  He lives by the phrase "A sucker is born every minute". Think about it, if he was doing this for the betterment of man-kind, why would he sell his products???

Response:

Read these articles taken form various sites on the Web: ketosis – metabolic disorder marked by high levels of ketones in the tissues and body fluids, including blood and urine. There is less sugar than normal in the blood and less glycogen (the storage form of sugar) in the liver; fat accumulates in the liver, as do amino acids, from which the liver can produce more glycogen. Ketosis may be present in diabetes mellitus. When cattle are affected, they lose weight and produce less milk; dietary adjustment to meet the special requirements of individual cattle helps avoid the condition. (Britannica.com) Now this: With further fasting, lipolysis continues to increase for a few days before it plateaus at a high rate. A large proportion of elevated fatty acids are converted to the "ketone bodies" in the liver, a process enhanced by the high level of glucagon. The brain, previously an avid and fastidious consumer of glucose, begins to use ketones as well as glucose. Eventually, more than one-half of the brain’s daily metabolic energy needs are met by the ketone bodies, thus substantially diminishing the need for hepatic glucose production. The decrease in gluconeogenesis reduces the need for protein-derived amino acids, sparing muscle and making survival during prolonged fasting possible. Starvation is characterized by very low levels of insulin, elevated concentrations of glucagon, and very high concentration of circulating free fatty acids and ketones. (Britannica.com) — When you consume a healthful and supportive diet complete with proteins, carbs, and fats, the carbohydrates are broken down into glucose. Glucose is actually blood sugar. Some of that glucose is transported and stored in muscle tissue as "glycogen." This is sort of the fuel in your fuel tank. That’s important to understand. Glycogen = Fuel. Glycogen is used to produce energy that fuels muscle contraction. ALL muscle contraction! Don’t think of muscle contraction only as exercise. Any movement requires the contraction of muscle, from blinking your eye to rising from bed in the morning. Without glycogen, you don’t have any fuel in the fuel tank. As long as you’re consuming carbs, you continue to re-fuel. You access and burn up stored glycogen, but quickly replace it with new muscle fuel. An understanding of that simple fact, that carbohydrates are the source of muscle fuel should raise an immediate red flag toward anything that suggests eliminating carbs. Once you understand the basic premise behind muscle glycogen, you should understand that the liver also plays a role in fuel storage. Some of the carbs that you eat ultimately wind up stored as liver glycogen. Think of the liver as sort of a "pump" for blood sugar. The brain burns more calories than any other organ in your body, and guess what it uses as its primary source of fuel. Glucose! Carbohydrates! As the brain results in the "burning" of blood glucose, the liver accesses its glycogen stores to keep blood glucose in adequate supply. Again, as you expend glycogen, the carbs that you ingest replete your supply. Atkins asks you to give up carbs. At first you’re doing just fine because you have glycogen stored. After a day or two, you’re using up your stored glycogen and you’re not replacing it. Your body shortly thereafter begins producing ketone bodies. I mentioned Atkins’ praise of a ketotic state already. Let’s look a bit further into this condition. Ketones are intermediaries in the process of metabolizing fat that are found in abnormal amounts in the blood and urine during periods of metabolic impairment. Give up all of your stored glycogen without replacing it and you’re likely going to be in such a state (Note: if you take in too many protein calories, it is possible to avoid carbs and never enter a state of ketosis rendering his low-carb ketosis theories useless). Atkins leads you to believe that the presence of these ketone bodies indicates ongoing fat release. He also assures you that they feed the brain. That is partially true. Here are just a few of the issues he neglects to address: 1. Extended periods of ketosis affect the chemical composition of the blood in such a way that you increase risk of cardiac incident (blood ketoacidosis). 2. In a state of ketoacidosis, carbon dioxide accumulates in the tissues. Oxygen delivery to the cells is impaired. This can lead to a wide range of disastrous consequences ranging from respiratory ailments to metabolic illness. 3. Toxic ammonia buildup resulting from severe cases of ketoacidosis can be lethal. I believe Atkins neglects to share that information with readers. He also neglects to tell you that the liver is called into play to "filter" the abnormal chemicals building up in the blood. This leads to a residual buildup of uric acid. Interestingly, this uric acid accumulation can lead to . . . formation of kidney stones! Kidney stones may be common among low carb dieters, but don’t mistake that for an indication that they’re normal! If all is working optimally, uric acid levels stay quite manageable, the kidneys continue to function normally, and you will likely never have stones accumulating in your urinary tract. (Thefitnesstruth.com) —— I have a lot of friends on low carb diets and for years now I’ve just had a feeling that something wasn’t right, after all, we all didn’t learn the 5 food groups in kindergarten just to throw it away later in life. Dr. Atkins supports the idea of placing your body in a state of Ketosis, in fact, this is what causes his diet to work.  After reading some of those articles above I have to ask "Why?".  Why would anyone want to place their body in this unhealthy state? Here’s a summary of Ketosis.  Your body starts using stored fat cells to provide fuel after the carbs are depleted.  The energy provided to the brain is only a little over 50% of the energy it needs to function, as opposed to the 100% provided by carbohydrates.  Ironically, people in this state of Ketosis don’t realize their reactions are being affected BECAUSE thier brain is operating too slowly to tell (Sorta like being unable to see the forest from the trees). Victims of starvation and insulin dependant diabetics who missed their insulin, are the ones commonly found in this state.  The first two words in the encyclopedia’s entry are "metobolic disorder".  Why then are people flocking to this diet if it requires placing your body in harm’s way? Ketosis is a bodies reaction and defense against illness.  Not only are diabetics found in this sate, anyone who has been sick for prolonged periods of time (Influenza, Bronchitis, etc.) also suffer form Ketosis, since they don’t eat as much as they should and force their body to go into this state of "emergency".  Why do you think people lose weight and look sickly thin when they’ve been sick for a while? I just can’t stress enough how unnatural this is.  It’s unnatural to artificailly place a healthy body in this sate of emergency when everything you need for a healthy living is right there in front of you. I could stand to lose a few pounds myself.  I was tempted to try a diet like this, but declined since it just didn’t sound right.  After reading what I have, I’m glad I did.  I hope some of you out there haven’t been completely suckered ito this diet by Atkins’ promise.  What he sells is a half-truth.  He lives by the phrase "A sucker is born every minute". Think about it, if he was doing this for the betterment of man-kind, why would he sell his products???

Response:

Question:

Does anyone have any experience with imipramine? 1)  What are the side effects?  Does it cause impotence the way practically all other anti-depressants do?   2)  How effective is it in treating depression? 3)  How different is it from other common drugs such as prozac, effexor, etc.? 4)  Does it have any lethal potential (will it kill a person if they OD on it in large doses)?  Many years ago, I made an unsucessful suicide attempt, and I dont want the temptation to be there if I ever get to that state again. 5)  Is does it have any addictive potential, like some meds can (i.e. you need more and more of it to get the same effect)? I presume in a group like this, many of you are currently on (or have been on) imiprimine.  I just need to get as much info as possible on, since this one of the drugs my doc has mentioned as a possibility for me.  Of course, ive asked him these questions also, but I just want to get another perspective. I’d appreciate any input from anyone out there– thanks advance allegro

Response:

Does anyone have any experience with imipramine?

Not I. Tofranil, haven’t tried it. 1)  What are the side effects?  Does it cause impotence the way practically all other anti-depressants do?  

http://www.mentalhealth.com/drug/p30-t03.html 2)  How effective is it in treating depression?

About as good as any. Actually, it’s frequently used in comparison studies. 3)  How different is it from other common drugs such as prozac, effexor, etc.?

It’s a tricyclic, kind of like a shotgun. Does a lot of stuff, that’s why the scary side effects. Meds like Prozac do less in the body and so have fewer and less frequently occurring (within a population) side effects. 4)  Does it have any lethal potential (will it kill a person if they OD on it in large doses)?  Many years ago, I made an unsucessful suicide attempt, and I dont want the temptation to be there if I ever get to that state again.

Maybe you should ask for an SSRI. All tricyclics are a little dangerous. 5)  Is does it have any addictive potential, like some meds can (i.e. you need more and more of it to get the same effect)?

None at all. If you click on the Research link at Internet Mental Health you can get a ton of abstracts. Researchers seem to like using imipramine.

Response:

I recently started taking Imipramine.  I’m up to 150Mg/day.  I’ve been on virtually all of the newer anti-depressants, so this is kind of my last hope. I can tell you this much, the newer ADs are no more effective than the older ones, such as the Tricyclics and MAOIs. As far as side effects go, I’m experiencing dry mouth and constipation.  Imipramine seems no worse than ADs like Prozac, Paxil, Serzone, Effexor, etc.  In fact, some of these newer ADs had more side effects.  Paxil, in particular, was the hardest drug to get off of.  Even though I weened off of it slowly, I experienced painful withdrawals, such as migraines, that lasted well over a month. From what I’ve read, one can OD on Imipramine, but so can one on Aspirin.  Also, it’s not addictive. I say it’s worth a try.  I mean, these newer ADs are being marketed heavily (whereas Imipramine is generic and inexpensive) and this is influencing doctors and patients.  But again, I have yet to read any studies that show Imipramine to be less effective. Does anyone have any experience with imipramine? 1)  What are the side effects?  Does it cause impotence the way practically all other anti-depressants do? 2)  How effective is it in treating depression? 3)  How different is it from other common drugs such as prozac, effexor, etc.? 4)  Does it have any lethal potential (will it kill a person if they OD on it in large doses)?  Many years ago, I made an unsucessful

suicide attempt, and I – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – dont want the temptation to be there if I ever get to that state again. 5)  Is does it have any addictive potential, like some meds can (i.e. you need more and more of it to get the same effect)? I presume in a group like this, many of you are currently on (or have been on) imiprimine.  I just need to get as much info as possible on, since this one of the drugs my doc has mentioned as a possibility for me.  Of course, ive asked him these questions also, but I just want to get another perspective. I’d appreciate any input from anyone out there– thanks advance allegro

Before you buy.

Response:

Question:

Hello all, I started getting  panic attacks about 6 weeks ago.  I was diagnosed and given medication (Xanax and Zoloft).  The intense attacks have disappeared, but I would say that I am dizzy nearly all of my waking hours and I can often go into some sort of trance and convince myself that everything is unreal. Does anyone have advise/experience with dizzyness?  I can understand it coming during an attack, but I am literally dizzy all day long! Help! Thanks, Greg

Response:

Greg, Sounds like you may have vertigo, in which case you should  probably see a neurologist for testing.  Vertigo is an imbalance in your inner ear which causes you to feel off balance. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello all, I started getting  panic attacks about 6 weeks ago.  I was diagnosed and given medication (Xanax and Zoloft).  The intense attacks have disappeared, but I would say that I am dizzy nearly all of my waking hours and I can often go into some sort of trance and convince myself that everything is unreal. Does anyone have advise/experience with dizzyness?  I can understand it coming during an attack, but I am literally dizzy all day long! Help! Thanks, Greg

Response:

It could also be a result of High Blood pressure.  That is usually the case with me. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello all, I started getting  panic attacks about 6 weeks ago.  I was diagnosed and given medication (Xanax and Zoloft).  The intense attacks have disappeared, but I would say that I am dizzy nearly all of my waking hours and I can often go into some sort of trance and convince myself that everything is unreal. Does anyone have advise/experience with dizzyness?  I can understand it coming during an attack, but I am literally dizzy all day long! Help! Thanks, Greg

Response:

I, too, have been having problems with dizziness.  One resource that helped me a great deal was the Vestibular Disorders Association (VEDA).  I’ve forgotten what the internet address is, but it should be easy to find if you do a Net search.

Response:

Re: Re: Dizzyness anyone? Greg, Sounds like you may have vertigo, in which case you should  probably see a neurologist for testing.  Vertigo is an imbalance in your inner ear which causes you to feel off balance.

I wouldn’t go straight for the neurologist at this time, I would find a good ENT (ear nose and throat dr)  The neuro. should be reserved for last, Since any good ENT can probally diagnose the problem.                              Mzpepper Posted at:  Thorny’s BBS, Lawrence, Kansas USA    telnet://thorny.ml.org — Thanks to Freddie, I’m a Sexual Spastic. –Zappa.

Response:

Hello all, I started getting  panic attacks about 6 weeks ago.  I was diagnosed and given medication (Xanax and Zoloft).  The intense attacks have disappeared, but I would say that I am dizzy nearly all of my waking hours and I can often go into some sort of trance and convince myself that everything is unreal. Does anyone have advise/experience with dizzyness?  I can understand it coming during an attack, but I am literally dizzy all day long! Help! Thanks, Greg

Greg, It may well be the Zoloft, which can cause dizziness (SSRIs can cause just about anything).  You may want to talk to your doc about trying a different SSRI, Prozac would probably be the best choice, IMO.  There’s lots of complaints (more than with other SSRIs) about Paxil’s side effects (though some do very well on it), and Luvox is less effective than the other SSRIs for panic for quite a few (though, again, many do well on it). Best of luck to you! Matt (IMO, etc.)

Response:

Question:

Doda1207 schreef: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just started taking Zoloft four days ago for panic disorder and depression.  For the first two days I had a really bad headache.  For the past two nights I have suddenly woken up from a nap with a sort of intense rush in my body. I feel as if I can’t breath, my entire body chills over, I feel detatched and unreal, my heart beats really fast, and it is almost a panicky state that I’m in, but not quite.  I’m starting to get terrified about going to sleep.  Now, I’ve had panic attacks in the past, but never two in a two days.  My symptoms are generally more chronic (chest pain, headache, on edge feelings).  It just seems wierd that I would start Zoloft and then start getting more panic attacks.  Can anyone offer any advice for me? Medication or just the panic disorder rearing it’s ugly head? If I were you I would tell my doc to change your medication, I had a similar reaction on Prozac, and it is frustrating to have the medication CAUSE what it is supposed to help. I am now on Paxil (started it today) and hoping for more success. My doctor says it is very common to have to change meds due to side effects, so talk to your doctor.  Hope this helps, take care,  Dody

  All SSRI’s (and Zoloft belongs to this group as do Paxil and Prozac) will worsen your symptoms during the first 2-8 weeks. To assess if this is really the med for you or not the best thing to do is to wait a few weeks. I know what it’s like, believe me. But it does take a while for these meds to kick in. You might ask your doctor for a benzo on the soide as this softens the side effects of the first weeks. Xanax and Ativan come to mind, which are fast-working meds with a very short half-life. A combo of SSRI and benzo for maintenance is quite common these days as well. Don’t give up too quickly…(I know how hard this can be) Philip Peters

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just started taking Zoloft four days ago for panic disorder and depression.  For the first two days I had a really bad headache.  For the past two nights I have suddenly woken up from a nap with a sort of intense rush in my body. (It just seems wierd that I would start Zoloft and then start getting more panic attacks.  Can anyone offer any advice for me? Medication or just the panic disorder rearing it’s ugly head? If I were you I would tell my doc to change your medication, I had a similar reaction on Prozac, and it is frustrating to have the medication CAUSE what it is supposed to help. I am now on Paxil (started it today) and hoping for more success. My doctor says it is very common to have to change meds due to side effects, so talk to your doctor.

It is not uncommon to have exagerrated anxiety while adjusting to an SRI.  I would recommend calling your doc and asking for something to help while you adjust.  It takes weeks before one can assess if Zoloft is right or wrong for you.  When I started Paxil I had attacks too. That ended after a few weeks.  I couldn’t possibly have made a decision after 4 days. Gwen

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just started taking Zoloft four days ago for panic disorder and depression.  For the first two days I had a really bad headache.  For the past two nights I have suddenly woken up from a nap with a sort of intense rush in my body. (It just seems wierd that I would start Zoloft and then start getting more panic attacks.  Can anyone offer any advice for me? Medication or just the panic disorder rearing it’s ugly head? If I were you I would tell my doc to change your medication, I had a similar reaction on Prozac, and it is frustrating to have the medication CAUSE what it is supposed to help. I am now on Paxil (started it today) and hoping for more success. My doctor says it is very common to have to change meds due to side effects, so talk to your doctor. It is not uncommon to have exagerrated anxiety while adjusting to an SRI.  I would recommend calling your doc and asking for something to help while you adjust.  It takes weeks before one can assess if Zoloft is right or wrong for you.  When I started Paxil I had attacks too. That ended after a few weeks.  I couldn’t possibly have made a decision after 4 days. Gwen

Nothing snipped so as to cause no annoyance Steve replied: I have tried Prozac, Effexor and Zoloft.  All were a nightmare for me (ME, Steve) I can speak for no one else.  The dreaded ‘benzos’ seem to work for me.  Good luck,  Steve Treloar

Response:

Zoloft did this to me too. I just dealt with it (a little xanex helped) and eventually, it passed. Scary stuff though…                               cathy

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just started taking Zoloft four days ago for panic disorder and depression.  For the first two days I had a really bad headache.  For the past two nights I have suddenly woken up from a nap with a sort of intense rush in my body. I feel as if I can’t breath, my entire body chills over, I feel detatched and unreal, my heart beats really fast, and it is almost a panicky state that I’m in, but not quite.  I’m starting to get terrified about going to sleep.  Now, I’ve had panic attacks in the past, but never two in a two days.  My symptoms are generally more chronic (chest pain, headache, on edge feelings).  It just seems wierd that I would start Zoloft and then start getting more panic attacks.  Can anyone offer any advice for me? Medication or just the panic disorder rearing it’s ugly head?

Many people here (including myself) have experienced that starting an SRI such as Zoloft will actually increase panic in the early going. For most, this side effect will wear off in a few weeks.  There are a couple of ways to get around it.  One way is to start on a very low dose of Zoloft, and gradually increase the dose until you reach a therapeutic level (possibly taking several months to do it).  This low start and slow increase eliminates most of the side effects.  Another way to reduce side effects is to take a benzo on a temporary basis, until you are established on the Zoloft.  The benzo can help control the anxiety produced by the medication.  Do talk to your doctor about this, as increased anxiety is a common early side effect of SRIs, and there are ways to get around the problem.   Best wishes, Hirsch address in header has been changed to avoid junk mail. To reach me by email, substitute erols for nospam in my reply-to address.

Response:

I just started taking Zoloft four days ago for panic disorder and depression.  For the first two days I had a really bad headache.  For the past two nights I have suddenly woken up from a nap with a sort of intense rush in my body. I feel as if I can’t breath, my entire body chills over, I feel detatched and unreal, my heart beats really fast, and it is almost a panicky state that I’m in, but not quite.  I’m starting to get terrified about going to sleep.  Now, I’ve had panic attacks in the past, but never two in a two days.  My symptoms are generally more chronic (chest pain, headache, on edge feelings).  It just seems wierd that I would start Zoloft and then start getting more panic attacks.  Can anyone offer any advice for me? Medication or just the panic disorder rearing it’s ugly head?

I’m terribly sorry to read this but, if it’s any consolation, it isn’t at all uncommon – indeed, Zoloft did that to me, too. All the SSRIs seem capable of causing increased anxiety when first started and to counter this some doctors start patients at very low doses, slowly increasing them till the desired effect is achieved. Some also prescribe anxiolytics (typically benzodiazepines) to offset this side effect. If it’s very bad, I’d really recommend you talk to your doctor about it. Hope that’s some help – good luck! — Gary Cooper

Response:

I just started taking Zoloft four days ago for panic disorder and depression.  For the first two days I had a really bad headache.  For the past two nights I have suddenly woken up from a nap with a sort of intense rush in my body. I feel as if I can’t breath, my entire body chills over, I feel detatched and unreal, my heart beats really fast, and it is almost a panicky state that I’m in, but not quite.  I’m starting to get terrified about going to sleep.  Now, I’ve had panic attacks in the past, but never two in a two days.  My symptoms are generally more chronic (chest pain, headache, on edge feelings).  It just seems wierd that I would start Zoloft and then start getting more panic attacks.  Can anyone offer any advice for me? Medication or just the panic disorder rearing it’s ugly head?

If I were you I would tell my doc to change your medication, I had a similar reaction on Prozac, and it is frustrating to have the medication CAUSE what it is supposed to help. I am now on Paxil (started it today) and hoping for more success. My doctor says it is very common to have to change meds due to side effects, so talk to your doctor.  Hope this helps, take care,  Dody

Response:

the two most common benzodiazapines (that I come across in reading posts) used to bridge the adjustment period to a SSRI  are Xanax or Klonopin I was given klonopin to get over the adjustment to paxil.

+AD4- +AD4- +AD4-Doda1207 schreef: +AD4- +AD4APg- +AD4- +AD4APg- +AD4-I just started taking Zoloft four days ago for panic +AD4APg- +AD4-disorder and depression.  For the first two days I had a +AD4APg- +AD4-really bad headache.  For the past two nights I have suddenly +AD4APg- +AD4-woken up from a nap with a sort of intense rush in my body. +AD4APg- +AD4-I feel as if I can’t breath, my entire body chills over, +AD4APg- +AD4-I feel detatched and unreal, my heart beats really fast, and it is almost a +AD4APg- +AD4-panicky state that I’m in, but not quite.  I’m starting to get terrified +AD4APg- +AD4-about +AD4APg- +AD4-going to sleep.  Now, I’ve had panic attacks in the past, but never +AD4APg- +AD4-two in a two days.  My symptoms are generally more chronic +AD4APg- +AD4-(chest pain, headache, on edge feelings).  It just seems +AD4APg- +AD4-wierd that I would start Zoloft and then start getting more +AD4APg- +AD4-panic attacks.  Can anyone offer any advice for me? +AD4APg- +AD4-Medication or just the panic disorder rearing it’s ugly head? +AD4APg- +AD4APg- If I were you I would tell my doc to change your medication, I had a similar +AD4APg- reaction on Prozac, and it is frustrating to have the medication CAUSE what it +AD4APg- is supposed to help. I am now on Paxil (started it today) and hoping for more +AD4APg- success. My doctor says it is very common to have to change meds due to side +AD4APg- effects, so talk to your doctor. +AD4APg-  Hope this helps, take care, +AD4APg-  Dody +AD4- +AD4-  All SSRI’s (and Zoloft belongs to this group as do Paxil and Prozac) will worsen +AD4-your symptoms during the first 2-8 weeks. To assess if this is really the med for +AD4-you or not the best thing to do is to wait a few weeks. I know what it’s like, +AD4-believe me. But it does take a while for these meds to kick in. You might ask your +AD4-doctor for a benzo on the soide as this softens the side effects of the first +AD4-weeks. Xanax and Ativan come to mind, which are fast-working meds with a very +AD4-short half-life. A combo of SSRI and benzo for maintenance is quite common these +AD4-days as well. Don’t give up too quickly…(I know how hard this can be) +AD4- +AD4-Philip Peters +AD4-

Response:

I just started taking Zoloft four days ago for panic disorder and depression.  For the first two days I had a

really bad headache.  For the past two nights I have suddenly

woken up from a nap with a sort of intense rush in my body.

I feel as if I can’t breath, my entire body chills over, I feel detatched and unreal, my heart beats really fast, and it is almost a

panicky state that I’m in, but not quite.  I’m starting to get terrified about

going to sleep.  Now, I’ve had panic attacks in the past, but never two in a two days.  My symptoms are generally more chronic

(chest pain, headache, on edge feelings).  It just seems

wierd that I would start Zoloft and then start getting more

panic attacks.  Can anyone offer any advice for me?

Medication or just the panic disorder rearing it’s ugly head?   Hi,   From what I hear (I can’t remember myself) Many times when you start on an antidepressant, your symtoms can become worse at first.  It is always a good idea to give a new med a couple of weeks, for the medication to build up in your system and let the side effects die down.  Unless of course the side effects are really bad, in that case I would immediately talk to your doctor. Hope that helps. Lee "Life is too important to be taken seriously"

Response:

I just started taking Zoloft four days ago for panic disorder and depression  Now, I’ve had panic attacks in the past, but never two in a two days.  My symptoms are generally more chronic (chest pain, headache, on edge feelings).  It just seems wierd that I would start Zoloft and then start getting more panic attacks

Very common for SRI’s to increase anxiety (even to the point of panic) in the first few weeks.  You might want to talk to your doc about adding or increasing a benzo til your body adjusts.  I don’t take Zoloft – but had a heck of a time adjusting to Paxil. Gwen

Response:

I just started taking Zoloft four days ago for panic disorder and depression.  For the first two days I had a really bad headache.  For the past two nights I have suddenly woken up from a nap with a sort of intense rush in my body. I feel as if I can’t breath, my entire body chills over, I feel detatched and unreal, my heart beats really fast, and it is almost a panicky state that I’m in, but not quite.  I’m starting to get terrified about going to sleep.  Now, I’ve had panic attacks in the past, but never two in a two days.  My symptoms are generally more chronic (chest pain, headache, on edge feelings).  It just seems wierd that I would start Zoloft and then start getting more panic attacks.  Can anyone offer any advice for me? Medication or just the panic disorder rearing it’s ugly head?

Response: