Question:

You have learned a very important thing about there being no upward bound.  The key is to make sure the patient is titrated upward properly.  Many doctors mistakenly believe that at a certain dosage, resp failure will ensue.  That is BS just as long as the patient has been *gradually* taken up to their dosages. As for cost, Oxy and MS-Con are VERY expensive.  Oramorph is about the same price also.   90 Oxycontin of 40 mg strength can run anywhere from $400 to $500. (I’ve heard that the methadone equivalent of these is about $15-$25. You can see why some patients might need to use methadone). That is ALOT of dough for either Oxy or MS-Contin.  It is important for pain physicians to discuss what insurance their patients have and to work with them to make sure they can afford the meds.  Before the doc even pulls out the prescription pad, a discussion should take place about what insurance the patient has (if any).  Most people can simply not afford paying over $1000 per month out of pocket (assuming prescriptions for Oxycontin and a breakthru med like Oxyfast). – Jon  (:o)}< – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – First, this is my own personal preferences.  Doctors are allowed to be fickle too (most are MORE so).  I guess if I start using it more and get more comfortable with it, then I’ll start to use it more.  The hospice I direct has contracts for MS Contin/Oxy Contin so they get it cheaper.  The residency program I came from had a pharmacy that had both Oxy/MS and methadone.  I just preferred the first two. Now allow me to clear up one misconception you stated: there are no upper limits for ANY opiate that is not mixed with something else.  So there is no upper limit for morphine, oxycodone or methadone.  You keep taking more until you get the dose that benefits you.  That is one simple rule that many docs don’t like.  Some incorrectly believe that there is some "magic" number that if they pass that dose, the patient (still in horrible pain) will stop breathing.  That is simply NOT true.  No one will be dying from respiratory failure from too much narcotic while they still have significant pain.  Pain is the PERFECT antagonist for opiates…better than naloxone. Cost can be a significant factor, but I have not encountered that yet.  I know I will, just not yet. It does sound like you have a great pain doc.  Stick with her and tell your friends about her too. — Bill Work Personally, it is my last choice for long-acting, oral narcotics. Notice I said "personally".  It has a half-life of 24 hours but you must take it three times a day for pain relief. Is the 3x/day dosing the reason you don’t like the methadone, or is there another reason for not liking it? It surely is a life saver cost wise for those who cannot afford the high prices of OxyContin and other meds which have no generics. My pain-management physician also says that there is no upper limit on methadone. She prescribes whatever it takes to reach the goal that one is seeking for pain relief and gives breakthrough medication also. Now a few questions…who in the world put you on OxyContin four times a day?  What if you took 80 mg every 12 hours (not twice a day but every 12 hours)?  Does it make you too sleepy?  Do you get too much breakthrough pain? I was on OxyContin a while back and found it to be practically useless for me. My first pain-management physician started me out on 3x/day because he said that it didn’t last longer than 8 hours for most people. I can’t see any difference between taking OxyContin 3x/day and methadone 3x/day except for the fact that methadone works much better for me than OxyContin, and I have saved a bundle of money. Annie B.

Response:

Thank you Harley for the inforation you provided….printed alot of it off and have it ready for my Dr appointment  on Thursday. It should give him some idea on what I’m talking about. Thanks again…I appreciate all the help everyone has given me…….Joan

Response:

Hi Joan. I am 28yrs. and I would like to share my medication history with you.  I have been on narcotics for the treatment of Avascular Necrosis for the past 3yrs  I am currently taking 30mg of methadone every 6hrs; 120mg/day.  75mg of morphine ER/day ;30-45mg twice a day . Also, oxycodone 10mg every 4hrs.; 60mg/day.  However, I am still in a great deal of pain every second of the day.  Before switching to Methadone, I was on oxycontin 80mg/day along with the same dose of oxycodone and things where pretty much the same.  So, if cost is the only issue, I would give methadone a try.But i was recently told that methadone can damage the bones.  Therefor, I am now lookng for a drug to replace methadone since I already have a bone disease. I pray that you will soon find the right medication for you.

Response:

I agree…so I guess I need to only treat patients with good insurance????? No, you made some good points. — Bill Work

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You have learned a very important thing about there being no upward bound.  The key is to make sure the patient is titrated upward properly.  Many doctors mistakenly believe that at a certain dosage, resp failure will ensue.  That is BS just as long as the patient has been *gradually* taken up to their dosages. As for cost, Oxy and MS-Con are VERY expensive.  Oramorph is about the same price also. 90 Oxycontin of 40 mg strength can run anywhere from $400 to $500. (I’ve heard that the methadone equivalent of these is about $15-$25. You can see why some patients might need to use methadone). That is ALOT of dough for either Oxy or MS-Contin.  It is important for pain physicians to discuss what insurance their patients have and to work with them to make sure they can afford the meds.  Before the doc even pulls out the prescription pad, a discussion should take place about what insurance the patient has (if any).  Most people can simply not afford paying over $1000 per month out of pocket (assuming prescriptions for Oxycontin and a breakthru med like Oxyfast). – Jon  (:o)}< First, this is my own personal preferences.  Doctors are allowed to be fickle too (most are MORE so).  I guess if I start using it more and get more comfortable with it, then I’ll start to use it more.  The hospice I direct has contracts for MS Contin/Oxy Contin so they get it cheaper. The residency program I came from had a pharmacy that had both Oxy/MS and methadone.  I just preferred the first two. Now allow me to clear up one misconception you stated: there are no upper limits for ANY opiate that is not mixed with something else.  So there is no upper limit for morphine, oxycodone or methadone.  You keep taking more until you get the dose that benefits you.  That is one simple rule that many docs don’t like.  Some incorrectly believe that there is some "magic" number that if they pass that dose, the patient (still in horrible pain) will stop breathing.  That is simply NOT true.  No one will be dying from respiratory failure from too much narcotic while they still have significant pain. Pain is the PERFECT antagonist for opiates…better than naloxone. Cost can be a significant factor, but I have not encountered that yet.  I know I will, just not yet. It does sound like you have a great pain doc.  Stick with her and tell your friends about her too. — Bill Work Personally, it is my last choice for long-acting, oral narcotics. Notice I said "personally".  It has a half-life of 24 hours but you must take it three times a day for pain relief. Is the 3x/day dosing the reason you don’t like the methadone, or is there another reason for not liking it? It surely is a life saver cost wise for those who cannot afford the high prices of OxyContin and other meds which have no generics. My pain-management physician also says that there is no upper limit on methadone. She prescribes whatever it takes to reach the goal that one is seeking for pain relief and gives breakthrough medication also. Now a few questions…who in the world put you on OxyContin four times a day?  What if you took 80 mg every 12 hours (not twice a day but every 12 hours)?  Does it make you too sleepy?  Do you get too much breakthrough pain? I was on OxyContin a while back and found it to be practically useless for me. My first pain-management physician started me out on 3x/day because he said that it didn’t last longer than 8 hours for most people. I can’t see any difference between taking OxyContin 3x/day and methadone 3x/day except for the fact that methadone works much better for me than OxyContin, and I have saved a bundle of money. Annie B.

Response:

May I ask why you are on so many different narcotics?????  You should be on only ONE narcotic and maximize that to its fullest potential. Reminds me of hospice referrals we would get from the Internal Medicine teams.  They would discharge someone on Duragesic patches, OxyContin, Percocets and MS IR (no joke!).  BTW, the patient would still be in 7/10 pain. So, your dose of methadone is too small.  If this is the drug of choice for you (I hadn’t heard about the bone stuff), then it should be maximized. What is the limit?  There is NO limit.  You take an increasing dose until you either have the pain to a manageable level or you get tired of taking so many pills. As a pain physician, I would be VERY uncomfortable giving you that diverse of a medication regimen.  It sounds too complex and more likely to have problems getting the proper doses. Just my two cents…and I didn’t even bill you for it… — Bill Work

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Joan. I am 28yrs. and I would like to share my medication history with you.  I have been on narcotics for the treatment of Avascular Necrosis for the past 3yrs  I am currently taking 30mg of methadone every 6hrs; 120mg/day.  75mg of morphine ER/day ;30-45mg twice a day . Also, oxycodone 10mg every 4hrs.; 60mg/day.  However, I am still in a great deal of pain every second of the day.  Before switching to Methadone, I was on oxycontin 80mg/day along with the same dose of oxycodone and things where pretty much the same.  So, if cost is the only issue, I would give methadone a try.But i was recently told that methadone can damage the bones.  Therefor, I am now lookng for a drug to replace methadone since I already have a bone disease. I pray that you will soon find the right medication for you.

Response:

Ironman is quite right. Trying to last 12 hours on one pill did not come close to helping me anyway. I have found the change to QID, yes every 6 hours for oxycontin has a made major improvement in my quality of life – at least for me. TID is a near norm with many I’ve read over the last year. Some thoughts I wanted to pass along. My previous pain doc used methadone as his fist narcotic of choice for some chronic patients because of it being affordable. This enabled him to treat all folks with pain both rich and the poor uninsured – me. Fortunately I now receive help due to past employment before I could not work. I’m still paying on the previous bills for medication over several years.  I hope and pray each month my medications go through one more time. I could never afford the meds and would be back to my past situation borrowing money. Oxy works best for me, unfortunately. Thought you might find this interesting. Have a good day, Matt

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Personally, it is my last choice for long-acting, oral narcotics.  Notice I said "personally".  It has a half-life of 24 hours but you must take it three times a day for pain relief. Now a few questions…who in the world put you on OxyContin four times a day?  What if you took 80 mg every 12 hours (not twice a day but every 12 hours)?  Does it make you too sleepy?  Do you get too much breakthrough pain? Dr. Work, While OxyContin is a very good pain reliever, it doesn’t last 12 hours. IMHO it stops being effective after 6-8 hours. YMMV, but she could need to take 40 mg. 4x per day. This is just my spin on the situation. ironman Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

Response:

Dear Doc.  Thank you for the info.  I am certainly going to request that my medications be re_ evaluated.  My pain alway ranges 7to 10.  I was starting to feel that there was no hope of having my pain managed.  My doc said that 120mg of methadone was as high as it could be.  That is why morphine er was added.  The oxycodone is for breakthrough pain and my pain is so grea that I take it every 4hrs. around the clock. THANKS FOR ANY HELP YOU CAN GIVE

Response:

William: I know you were joking, but no…..the key is to use drugs that have generic formularies with under- or noninsured patients. Methadone comes to mind for a "long-term" delivery drug. Another option is to use a suspension form of hydrocodone in syrup form.  This tends to stay in the body for an extended period of time. Bunch of these on the market for people with severe coughing. Still nothing wrong with Percocet/dan.  Keep in mind that the drug companies have now come out with 2.5/5/10 mg formulations.  Drs need to specify which strength they are writing for. Vicoden ES or its generics are cheaper (by comparison).  Norco is not all that expensive either. OR…..if you have a compounding pharmacy near your practice and you want to avoid APAP toxicity……have the pharmacist compound pure hydrocodone.  IT CAN BE DONE. With poorer folks, you just need to be a little bit more creative. They will thank you for it 1000% over tho  (:o) – Jon  (:o)}< – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I agree…so I guess I need to only treat patients with good insurance????? No, you made some good points. — Bill Work You have learned a very important thing about there being no upward bound.  The key is to make sure the patient is titrated upward properly.  Many doctors mistakenly believe that at a certain dosage, resp failure will ensue.  That is BS just as long as the patient has been *gradually* taken up to their dosages. As for cost, Oxy and MS-Con are VERY expensive.  Oramorph is about the same price also. 90 Oxycontin of 40 mg strength can run anywhere from $400 to $500. (I’ve heard that the methadone equivalent of these is about $15-$25. You can see why some patients might need to use methadone). That is ALOT of dough for either Oxy or MS-Contin.  It is important for pain physicians to discuss what insurance their patients have and to work with them to make sure they can afford the meds.  Before the doc even pulls out the prescription pad, a discussion should take place about what insurance the patient has (if any).  Most people can simply not afford paying over $1000 per month out of pocket (assuming prescriptions for Oxycontin and a breakthru med like Oxyfast). – Jon  (:o)}< First, this is my own personal preferences.  Doctors are allowed to be fickle too (most are MORE so).  I guess if I start using it more and get more comfortable with it, then I’ll start to use it more.  The hospice I direct has contracts for MS Contin/Oxy Contin so they get it cheaper. The residency program I came from had a pharmacy that had both Oxy/MS and methadone.  I just preferred the first two. Now allow me to clear up one misconception you stated: there are no upper limits for ANY opiate that is not mixed with something else.  So there is no upper limit for morphine, oxycodone or methadone.  You keep taking more until you get the dose that benefits you.  That is one simple rule that many docs don’t like.  Some incorrectly believe that there is some "magic" number that if they pass that dose, the patient (still in horrible pain) will stop breathing.  That is simply NOT true.  No one will be dying from respiratory failure from too much narcotic while they still have significant pain. Pain is the PERFECT antagonist for opiates…better than naloxone. Cost can be a significant factor, but I have not encountered that yet.  I know I will, just not yet. It does sound like you have a great pain doc.  Stick with her and tell your friends about her too. — Bill Work Personally, it is my last choice for long-acting, oral narcotics. Notice I said "personally".  It has a half-life of 24 hours but you must take it three times a day for pain relief. Is the 3x/day dosing the reason you don’t like the methadone, or is there another reason for not liking it? It surely is a life saver cost wise for those who cannot afford the high prices of OxyContin and other meds which have no generics. My pain-management physician also says that there is no upper limit on methadone. She prescribes whatever it takes to reach the goal that one is seeking for pain relief and gives breakthrough medication also. Now a few questions…who in the world put you on OxyContin four times a day?  What if you took 80 mg every 12 hours (not twice a day but every 12 hours)?  Does it make you too sleepy?  Do you get too much breakthrough pain? I was on OxyContin a while back and found it to be practically useless for me. My first pain-management physician started me out on 3x/day because he said that it didn’t last longer than 8 hours for most people. I can’t see any difference between taking OxyContin 3x/day and methadone 3x/day except for the fact that methadone works much better for me than OxyContin, and I have saved a bundle of money. Annie B.

Response:

What this demonstrates is that everyone is different and everything about the person must be taken into account…..snippage I am never concerned about a chronic pain patient over-medicating.  They would have to prove to me that they are incompetant with their meds before I begin to get worried.  I know a pain doc here in town who on the first visit, gives the patient a large amount of MS IR to use and asks them to write down each day how much and how often they use it.  He then re-evaluates them in one month and starts them on a chronic dose.  I personally don’t do that but instead make an educated guess as to how much to start and give breakthrough MS IR/Oxy IR then make the adjustment.

When I began methadone I was prescribed 100 5 mg tablets. I was instructed to start at 5 mg every 6 hours for three days and then titrate the doseage by 5 mg increments every three days till I felt comfortable. I then settled at 10mg every 6 hours, a relatively small dose. I am now at 20 mg every 6 hours but I have only needed two small adjustments in 18 months. It took me two years of agony to get into that doctor’s care, I certainly don’t recommend that you take that long to find the right MD! I never take stuff for granted after having gone through so much. I know how fortunate I am because I don’t live in this NG anymore! I actually have days now, where I forget about this stuff entirely. Jim S Jim S

Response:

Many many patients find that Oxycontin does not last 12 hours.  It is more like 8 hours.  Many Oxy prescriptions are now for dosing one TID. I’ve read reports of patients on 4x daily dosing.  Since the drug comes in so many different strengths, it is very useful for the clinician since they can easily titrate the dose. Since different patients metabolize oxycodone at different rates, I can imagine patients who might need QID dosing.  We’ve had patients on this newsgroup that were/are taking "heroic" amounts of Oxycontin on a daily basis and their pain was barely in check. Pain management requires an "exploratory" mindset.  Just because the manufacturer promises a certain delivery, does not mean a given patient will achieve that. If I had lost my insurance, I would give methadone major consideration.  It is dirt cheap and works very well. – Jon  (:o)}< – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Personally, it is my last choice for long-acting, oral narcotics.  Notice I said "personally".  It has a half-life of 24 hours but you must take it three times a day for pain relief. Now a few questions…who in the world put you on OxyContin four times a day?  What if you took 80 mg every 12 hours (not twice a day but every 12 hours)?  Does it make you too sleepy?  Do you get too much breakthrough pain? — Bill Work I have been lurking for several months and have gotten alot of help from this group. I am looking for information on methodone…how well does it work for pain control and where could I find web sites to learn more about it? I am on oxycontine 40 mg 4 x a day right now for neck and arm pain (cervical injury)…..however my insurance company, workers comp, has stopped paying for my meds and I am having a very difficult time paying for all the meds my dr. prescribes. I have heard that methodone is cheaper, but want to know if it is some thing I should , or would want to start on in place of oxycontine. I have a very compassionate dr who is willing to help me in any way he can, however admits he does not know enough about the methadone, being used for chronic pain, to tell me if it would be the right drug for me, or how well it really works. I would appreciate any help that you could give me on this. Thank you…..Joan

Response:

First, this is my own personal preferences.  Doctors are allowed to be fickle too (most are MORE so).  I guess if I start using it more and get more comfortable with it, then I’ll start to use it more.  The hospice I direct has contracts for MS Contin/Oxy Contin so they get it cheaper.  The residency program I came from had a pharmacy that had both Oxy/MS and methadone.  I just preferred the first two. Now allow me to clear up one misconception you stated: there are no upper limits for ANY opiate that is not mixed with something else.  So there is no upper limit for morphine, oxycodone or methadone.  You keep taking more until you get the dose that benefits you.  That is one simple rule that many docs don’t like.  Some incorrectly believe that there is some "magic" number that if they pass that dose, the patient (still in horrible pain) will stop breathing.  That is simply NOT true.  No one will be dying from respiratory failure from too much narcotic while they still have significant pain.  Pain is the PERFECT antagonist for opiates…better than naloxone. Cost can be a significant factor, but I have not encountered that yet.  I know I will, just not yet. It does sound like you have a great pain doc.  Stick with her and tell your friends about her too. — Bill Work

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Personally, it is my last choice for long-acting, oral narcotics. Notice I said "personally".  It has a half-life of 24 hours but you must take it three times a day for pain relief. Is the 3x/day dosing the reason you don’t like the methadone, or is there another reason for not liking it? It surely is a life saver cost wise for those who cannot afford the high prices of OxyContin and other meds which have no generics. My pain-management physician also says that there is no upper limit on methadone. She prescribes whatever it takes to reach the goal that one is seeking for pain relief and gives breakthrough medication also. Now a few questions…who in the world put you on OxyContin four times a day?  What if you took 80 mg every 12 hours (not twice a day but every 12 hours)?  Does it make you too sleepy?  Do you get too much breakthrough pain? I was on OxyContin a while back and found it to be practically useless for me. My first pain-management physician started me out on 3x/day because he said that it didn’t last longer than 8 hours for most people. I can’t see any difference between taking OxyContin 3x/day and methadone 3x/day except for the fact that methadone works much better for me than OxyContin, and I have saved a bundle of money. Annie B.

Response:

I was wondering if you or anyone else would know where I can find information on methodone for pain management that I can print out for my Dr to read.

Joan–.–    I’ll find you something and either post it or send it to you directly, your choice.  Methadone is `wonderful` stuff!  It, at the very LEAST, doubled the quality and intensity of my life! –

Question:

Yes, but being a ‘learned scholar’ in one particular area does not mean that your ADVICE will help everyone…which ends up giving out misinformation to patients who are suffering. So instead of expounding on what your career ‘used to be’ and college degree, just try and be compassionate to share what works for you…. it may NOT work for others. The mouthwash DOES NOT do a thing for my thrush….good old mycostatin, and meds does it for me…. I  was a Med/Tech writer editor for 20yrs. but in Radiation Oncology, does that mean I can give advice on curing cancerous lymphomas? I also went to the garage several times, does that make me a mechanic?    LOL Just trying to lighten the mood. thanks

Response:

try using mouth wash( the kind that kills bacteria).  take a swig and hold it in your mouth for as long as you can then spit it out.  this will be a little uncomfortable but it helps

Response:

Dear Carrie,  I had the same problem with the pulmocort and I think you are right about the delivery system.  I rinsed my mouth out faithfully after each use and still had thrush.  I would go off the pulmicort and get the thrush cleared up and go back on it, the thrush would be back within a week.  I finally changed to flovent with the airchamber and have not had any problems.  Pam – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I use a MDI and aerochamber and I rinse my mouth out with water after using my Flovent inhaler.  Ever since I started doing that, I haven’t gotten thrush since.  I don’t know if you have been doing the same, but it has helped me. Carrie I am very upset and miserable. I have thrush again, due to my inhaler. I am on Pulmicort Turbo inhaler. I don’t know if my theory holds any water, but I wondered if I switched to a different mode of delivery….back to a metered dose inhaler…I might not get this thrush as often. With the aero-chamber and a metered dose inhaler I might be able to get it past my tongue better. I have only been on Azmacort and Pulmi-cort. Does Pulmicort come in a metered dose Inhaler? If not, which one would you recommend? Thanks so much DOn * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

do not use a mouth wash that kills bacteria. Thrush is caused by a fungus if you kill the bacteria that normally live in your mouth the naturally occurring fungus will be able to gain a stronger hold on the mucousal surfaces of your mouth and the thrush will become worse.

This information is correct. Antifungal therapy, spacers, mouth rinsing/gargling with water-(try warm water not cold- could solubilize it better), weeker steroid inhalers (I was switched from flovent to  azmacort even though i hohum about it for many reasons)..these are ways to avoid/get rid of thrush. Chilla (the Candida biologist turned science writer)

Response:

I know this information is correct. I’m a microbiologist as well;-)

BTW, hansen’t a gene been identified that produces a susceptibility to yeast infections?  I wonder if (assuming an easy and inexpensive test were available) we could identify if any particular person was more likely to develop thrush? "Keep looking below surface appearances. Don’t shrink from doing so (just) because you might not like what you find."    General Colin Powell

Response:

I know this information is correct. I’m a microbiologist as well;-)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – do not use a mouth wash that kills bacteria. Thrush is caused by a fungus if you kill the bacteria that normally live in your mouth the naturally occurring fungus will be able to gain a stronger hold on the mucousal surfaces of your mouth and the thrush will become worse. This information is correct. Antifungal therapy, spacers, mouth rinsing/gargling with water-(try warm water not cold- could solubilize it better), weeker steroid inhalers (I was switched from flovent to  azmacort even though i hohum about it for many reasons)..these are ways to avoid/get rid of thrush. Chilla (the Candida biologist turned science writer)

Response:

Yes, the mouthwash helped me a bit, temporarily,,,but didnt relieve the horrible pain, peeling, and tenderness of MY thrush; so always end up telling my doc to call in a prescription of "Nystatin" (mycostatin) oral rinse….swish and swallow, boy, does it do the trick for me in two days!!! Just thought this may help those that dont get relef from the home remedies. thanks.

Response:

I am very upset and miserable. I have thrush again, due to my inhaler. I am on Pulmicort Turbo inhaler. I don’t know if my theory holds any water, but I wondered if I switched to a different mode of delivery….back to a metered dose inhaler…I might not get this thrush as often. With the aero-chamber and a metered dose inhaler I might be able to get it past my tongue better. I have only been on Azmacort and Pulmi-cort. Does Pulmicort come in a metered dose Inhaler? If not, which one would you recommend? Thanks so much DOn * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

As far as I know, Pulmicort does not come as a MDI, which is why I’m resisting agains my Doc switching me over to it. I believe that Flovent is just as good, but you would have to ask a doc about that. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am very upset and miserable. I have thrush again, due to my inhaler. I am on Pulmicort Turbo inhaler. I don’t know if my theory holds any water, but I wondered if I switched to a different mode of delivery….back to a metered dose inhaler…I might not get this thrush as often. With the aero-chamber and a metered dose inhaler I might be able to get it past my tongue better. I have only been on Azmacort and Pulmi-cort. Does Pulmicort come in a metered dose Inhaler? If not, which one would you recommend? Thanks so much DOn * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

I use a MDI and aerochamber and I rinse my mouth out with water after using my Flovent inhaler.  Ever since I started doing that, I haven’t gotten thrush since.  I don’t know if you have been doing the same, but it has helped me. Carrie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am very upset and miserable. I have thrush again, due to my inhaler. I am on Pulmicort Turbo inhaler. I don’t know if my theory holds any water, but I wondered if I switched to a different mode of delivery….back to a metered dose inhaler…I might not get this thrush as often. With the aero-chamber and a metered dose inhaler I might be able to get it past my tongue better. I have only been on Azmacort and Pulmi-cort. Does Pulmicort come in a metered dose Inhaler? If not, which one would you recommend? Thanks so much DOn * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

do not use a mouth wash that kills bacteria. Thrush is caused by a fungus if you kill the bacteria that normally live in your mouth the naturally occurring fungus will be able to gain a stronger hold on the mucousal surfaces of your mouth and the thrush will become worse. For what it’s worth I very rarely have trouble with thrush, despite being permanently on oral steroids as well as very high dose inhaled and when I do get it eating natural yoghurt helps heaps.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – try using mouth wash( the kind that kills bacteria).  take a swig and hold it in your mouth for as long as you can then spit it out.  this will be a little uncomfortable but it helps

Response:

Question:

Hi Everyone, my name is Augest.  I am twenty nine and i have panic disorder and ocd sinc the age of 11.  I was on zoloft fot eight years and recently weaned myself off to try and go it alone.  A week ago all my symptoms returned and I have been having attacks 24/7 since then.  I am so despondent.  I had to drop my online college course, put my part time job on hold and delay my business I’m working on starting.  All I can do is have attacks.  I’m waiting for the zoloft to kick in, but I feel like a failure for having to go back on it.  I have a feeling  I will have to be on medication for the rest of my life if I am going to be able to function.  I am so sad.  Was I stupid to try and go it alone?  Has anyone else tried and failed?  Please write to me, as I need someone to talk to who understands. Always, Augest

Response:

Hi Everyone, my name is Augest.  I am twenty nine and i have panic disorder and ocd sinc the age of 11.  I was on zoloft fot eight years and recently weaned myself off to try and go it alone.  A week ago all my symptoms returned and I have been having attacks 24/7 since then.  I am so despondent.  I had to drop my online college course, put my part time job on hold and delay my business I’m working on starting.  All I can do is have attacks.  I’m waiting for the zoloft to kick in, but I feel like a failure for having to go back on it.  I have a feeling  I will have to be on medication for the rest of my life if I am going to be able to function.  I am so sad.  Was I stupid to try and go it alone?  Has anyone else tried and failed?  Please write to me, as I need someone to talk to who understands. Always, Augest

Oh yeah, I am dealing with this right now.  Putting the job on hold, med changes, etc.  Actually, I did try to wean myself off of my AD a couple of times and not with good results.  You are not a failure because you need medication.  Would someone call I diabetic a failure?  No.  You are going to be fine.  If you need your medication, there is nothing wrong at all with it. Good Luck, Vicki

Response:

Hi Everyone, my name is Augest.  I am twenty nine and i have panic disorder and ocd sinc the age of 11.  I was on zoloft fot eight years and recently weaned myself off to try and go it alone.  A week ago all my symptoms returned and I have been having attacks 24/7 since then.  I am so despondent.  I had to drop my online college course, put my part time job on hold and delay my business I’m working on starting.  All I can do is have attacks.  I’m waiting for the zoloft to kick in, but I feel like a failure for having to go back on it.

Hi Augest! You could take a benzodiazepine such as Xanax for your current panic attacks until the Zoloft kicks in. Bet you wouldn’t feel like a failure if you had to go back on  a blood pressure or diabetes med. You might be disappointed, but you wouldn’t feel like a failure. I have a feeling  I will have to be on medication for the rest of my life if I am going to be able to function.

You never know. At this point in time, you have to go back on. I am so sad.  Was I stupid to try and go it alone?  Has anyone else tried and failed?  Please write to me, as I need someone to talk to who understands.

I’ve tried to discontinue meds for panic disorder and depression on several occasions, but find I do best on a combo of Zoloft, desipramine, and Klonopin. Otherwise I start having panic attacks when driving on the freeway and start getting depressed. I’ve been on Zoloft for 10 years, desipramine for about 5 years, and Klonopin for 16 years. I have tried to discontinue all of these meds on one or more occasions and found I needed to stay on them. I think it’s a good idea to try to see how one does off a med from time to time. Also I have always tried to get down to the minimal effective dose for every med I’m on. Always, Augest

Take care (((Augest))) Chip  

Response:

I think it’s a good idea to try to see how one does off a med from time to time. Also I have always tried to get down to the minimal effective dose for every med I’m on. Take care (((Augest))) Chip  

I think you are right, Chip.  A minimal dose is best. I sometimes wonder what this drug is doing to my body longterm which is why I wanted off. I’m taking xanax as I wait for the zoloft to kick in, but it is not working as effectiely as it used to in combating the panic attacks.  I wish I knew why.  Used to be I’d take one pill and sleep like a baby, now it barely effects me.  I guess I’m in for a lot of long nights ahead. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Augest

Response:

I think it’s a good idea to try to see how one does off a med from time to time. Also I have always tried to get down to the minimal effective dose for every med I’m on. I think you are right, Chip.  A minimal dose is best. I sometimes wonder what this drug is doing to my body longterm which is why I wanted off.

That’s understandable. Don’t forget about the adverse effects untreated long term anxiety and depression can have on the body. To say nothing of all the suffering. I’m taking xanax as I wait for the zoloft to kick in, but it is not working as effectiely as it used to in combating the panic attacks.  I wish I knew why.

Maybe when the Zoloft was in effect, you needed less Xanax for anxiety relief. Currently your baseline anxiety level is way up, so you need more Xanax. That should change once the Zoloft kicks in. Used to be I’d take one pill and sleep like a baby, now it barely effects me.  I guess I’m in for a lot of long nights ahead.

I’d use the Xanax in generous enough doses to knock the anxiety level way down and block panic attacks untill the Zoloft kicks in. Chip

Response:

Hi Augest, I’ve been where  you are now. I tried lowering my Zoloft dose a few times to see if I still needed it.  The panic attacks did return at the lower dose. Your body is adjusting to the Zoloft now and that may be adding to your anxiety.  How much Zoloft are you starting at ?  Your "ride" may be smoother if you gradually go up in 50 mg increments every 2 weeks.  If you’re in a hurry and can "tough it out", then maybe you can go up in higher doses.  Follow your doctor’s directions and keep him/her updated. Maybe you need a benzo like clonazepam or xanax to relieve your anxiety right now. Tell your doc how you’re feeling and see what he/she recommends. Take it easy :  ) Tony

Response:

Maybe you need a benzo like clonazepam or xanax to relieve your anxiety right now. Tell your doc how you’re feeling and see what he/she recommends. Take it easy :  ) Tony

Hi Tony, I got the xanax, but it isn’t as effective on me as it used to be.  I’m trying to tough this out.  I’m hoping I can keep my zoloft levels low.  I started at 50mg two days ago.  I can feel the zoloft trying to work, but there just isn’t enough of it in my system yet to be effective.  My doctor said the same thing as you, to increase in two weeks.  I’m going to do that.  I’d like to stay under my old dose of 100mg though.  I didn’t like the side effects.  We’ll see what happens.  Thanks for the support. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Augest

Response:

Hi Tony, I got the xanax, but it isn’t as effective on me as it used to be.  I’m trying to tough this out.  I’m hoping I can keep my zoloft levels low.  I started at 50mg two days ago.  I can feel the zoloft trying to work, but there just isn’t enough of it in my system yet to be effective.  My doctor said the same thing as you, to increase in two weeks.  I’m going to do that.  I’d like to stay under my old dose of 100mg though.  I didn’t like the side effects.  We’ll see what happens.  Thanks for the support. Augest

Hi Augest, I’d hate to throw a monkey wrench into your progress but I have made the switch from Zoloft to Effexor XR because it seemed that Zoloft had stopped working after about 6 years.  This probably won’t happen to you.  I may have just been completely burned out from constant stress at work for many years.  Anyway, I have found that Effexor XR is a very smooth med, does not mute my emotions and doesn’t have sexual side effects. That’s my case, it may not be the same for you.  For instance, I initially went from Zoloft to Lexapro and was incredibly tired all the time from the Lexapro.  You may fare well on Lexapro. Effexor XR is an SNRI (Serotonin and Norepinephrine Reuptake Inhibitor). Good luck with the Zoloft.  100 mg was my therapeutic dose although I did have some success at 50 mg when my stress levels were low. Tony

Response:

Question:

If your depression is due to a seratonin imbalence, yes they can help. If your depression is due to something else, they won’t. Most ssri drugs do have sexual side effects. If you’ve had blood work and your testosterone level is above the midrange, you might try antidepressants for a month or so. If they don’t work for you, try something else. Mike – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i am at the point where i think its time to aproach my gp to discuss some help regards anti depressants.from earlier posts i have seen people recomend not to use ssri,s so i will also talk with him regards these.i was just wondering if these will help my wellbeing for i am extremely depressed and really need some help now.everything is a struggle from getting up in the morns to working to well just everything .so could some one with experience in these things help me out by telling me if they r worth taking as things r getting harder day by day.i cant afford to get much worse or things could fall apart and i really need to keep my job thanks to anyone who can shed some light on this for me

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If your depression is due to a seratonin imbalence, yes they can help. If your depression is due to something else, they won’t. Most ssri drugs do have sexual side effects. If you’ve had blood work and your testosterone level is above the midrange, you might try antidepressants for a month or so. If they don’t work for you, try something else. Mike i am at the point where i think its time to aproach my gp to discuss some help regards anti depressants.from earlier posts i have seen people recomend not to use ssri,s so i will also talk with him regards these.i was just wondering if these will help my wellbeing for i am extremely depressed and really need some help now.everything is a struggle from getting up in the morns to working to well just everything .so could some one with experience in these things help me out by telling me if they r worth taking as things r getting harder day by day.i cant afford to get much worse or things could fall apart and i really need to keep my job thanks to anyone who can shed some light on this for me

I had much more severe form of depression and antidepressants helped me to minimize it. I was not even moving…Here are those I took: Amitriptillin, Zoloft,Xanax, Alprazolam…the good about them – they helped me to ALMOST completely defeat depression, but The bad side…they ALMOST competely removed my sex drive…

Response:

Saint John’s Wort will lower prolactin levels, unlike other SSRI pills. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i am at the point where i think its time to aproach my gp to discuss some help regards anti depressants.from earlier posts i have seen people recomend not to use ssri,s so i will also talk with him regards these.i was just wondering if these will help my wellbeing for i am extremely depressed and really need some help now.everything is a struggle from getting up in the morns to working to well just everything .so could some one with experience in these things help me out by telling me if they r worth taking as things r getting harder day by day.i cant afford to get much worse or things could fall apart and i really need to keep my job thanks to anyone who can shed some light on this for me

Response:

i was just wondering if these will help my wellbeing for i am extremely depressed and really need some help now.everything is a struggle from getting up in the morns to working to well just everything .so could some one with experience in these things help me out by telling me if they r worth taking as things r getting harder day by day.i cant afford to get much worse or things could fall apart and i really need to keep my job

The first thing you need to do is get "The Testosterone Sydrome" by Dr. Eugene Shippen and read it. Find out what the various tests to check you hormone levels and other health issues are before going to antidepressants. I wasted many years on antidepressants before discovering I had a hormone deficiency. You at least owe it to yourself to CHECK OUT ALL OTHER PHYSICAL PROBLEMS FIRST. The symptoms you describe sound like hypogonadism. I had identical symptoms myself for many many years.  I’m surprised I didn’t commit suicide, but I’m extrremely thankful now that I didn’t!

Response:

Like everybody else said, it’s vital to have a complete hormone panel, including prolactin, free testosterone, estradiol, and thyroid. If *any* of those are off, it can cause depression, anxiety, lethargy, etc. If you haven’t had a CBC (complete blood count) and lipid profile (cholesterol) have that checked also. They aren’t related to depression, but it’s just good sense. Also a review of your medical history, drug and alcohol use, and family history of medical and psychiatric problems are all useful. The troubleshooting sequence is actually very simple: hormonal problems can cause depression. You can test for hormone problems, so do that first. You can’t test for depression. If hormones are normal, treat as depression. But don’t take an SSRI if you’re concerned about sexual problems, rather try Wellbutrin, Remeron, or Serzone. One possible exception: the brand-new SSRI Lexapro reportedly causes less sexual problems than other SSRIs; don’t know how true this is. Re your title question, ADs can be very helpful. When they work people often report a fog has lifted, black moods gone, energy and vitality restored, can think clearer, etc. Statistically ADs have about a 70% success rate, but that’s *all* ADs combined. IOW you might need to try several different ones — Drs can’t match an AD to your symptoms, it’s just trial and error. But there’s a good chance it will work if your problem is endogenous depression, not hormonal. — Joe D. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i am at the point where i think its time to aproach my gp to discuss some help regards anti depressants.from earlier posts i have seen people recomend not to use ssri,s so i will also talk with him regards these.i was just wondering if these will help my wellbeing for i am extremely depressed and really need some help now.everything is a struggle from getting up in the morns to working to well just everything .so could some one with experience in these things help me out by telling me if they r worth taking as things r getting harder day by day.i cant afford to get much worse or things could fall apart and i really need to keep my job thanks to anyone who can shed some light on this for me

Response:

Jim, You are absolutely correct! However, there does appear to be a form of depression unlinked to low testosterone levels.   I asked my psychiatrist about that and he agreed.   I posted what my psychiatrist said at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hypogonadism2. and a fellow member posted that he agreed with that possibility. OR eon

Response:

T, Yes, my email addy works…it’s a real one too.  Feel free to email me anytime. OR eon

Response:

Hi, Before you jump into the deep end of  the pool, have you ever gotten your testosterone level? The symptoms of low T include depression, low energy level and loss of the sense of well being. I have been getting testosterone replacement therapy for  10 years and just recently bought a book on the subject that is fabulous. "The Testosterone Syndrome" by Dr. Eugene Shippen, $14.95, Barnes & Noble. It was a surprise T is used by the vital organs and all thru the body. I guess the brain is a vital organ to, right? He says in the preface, "When deficient, it is at the core of disease and early demise". Pretty strong language I thought but then found out why by reading his book. Ernie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i am at the point where i think its time to aproach my gp to discuss some help regards anti depressants.from earlier posts i have seen people recomend not to use ssri,s so i will also talk with him regards these.i was just wondering if these will help my wellbeing for i am extremely depressed and really need some help now.everything is a struggle from getting up in the morns to working to well just everything .so could some one with experience in these things help me out by telling me if they r worth taking as things r getting harder day by day.i cant afford to get much worse or things could fall apart and i really need to keep my job thanks to anyone who can shed some light on this for me

Response:

i am at the point where i think its time to aproach my gp to discuss some help regards anti depressants.from earlier posts i have seen people recomend not to use ssri,s so i will also talk with him regards these.i was just wondering if these will help my wellbeing for i am extremely depressed and really need some help now.everything is a struggle from getting up in the morns to working to well just everything .so could some one with experience in these things help me out by telling me if they r worth taking as things r getting harder day by day.i cant afford to get much worse or things could fall apart and i really need to keep my job thanks to anyone who can shed some light on this for me

Response:

T, There are four or five anti-depressants with minimal,  negative erectile effects.  One is Wellbutrin. I had clinical depression and in Oct ‘97 my psychiatrist put me on 150 mg Wellbutrin SR/2x/dy. That did not alleviate depressive symptoms and suicidal ideation seemed to intensify…so December ‘97 he added Lithobid 300 mg/2x/dy.   That did it! I’ve been on that combination since then. There was a brief period when depressive symptoms returned…when PCP put me on a diuretic…diuretic was flushing out the lithium and it was easier to eliminate diuretic than find one compatible with lithium. Good luck, Keep us posted as goes it how… Just my experiences…. OR eon

Response:

thanks oreon for the reply.not dealing with this to well and have some pretty bad times .dont like facing a life of ad,s but must try something.hope ur doing well.would like to discuss things more with u on a more private level,so i will see if ur mail addy works if thats ok with u.thanks again

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – T, There are four or five anti-depressants with minimal,  negative erectile effects.  One is Wellbutrin. I had clinical depression and in Oct ‘97 my psychiatrist put me on 150 mg Wellbutrin SR/2x/dy. That did not alleviate depressive symptoms and suicidal ideation seemed to intensify…so December ‘97 he added Lithobid 300 mg/2x/dy.   That did it! I’ve been on that combination since then. There was a brief period when depressive symptoms returned…when PCP put me on a diuretic…diuretic was flushing out the lithium and it was easier to eliminate diuretic than find one compatible with lithium. Good luck, Keep us posted as goes it how… Just my experiences…. OR eon

Response:

Question:

now, my doctor wants to take me off the effexor to see if it is the problem… i have already slipped backwards because of all this and new financial problems created by my ex— i am scared to death to go off the effexor.

Also, think about getting a second opinion on the drug issues from a psychiatrist. Bruce.

Response:

things have slowly deteriorating health wise for me… nothing deadly like cancer — i just feel dead.  i think my metabolism is running on empty. after a slew of testing nothing has been found yet…

((((((((((((((Donna)))))))))))))))) As I’m sure you’ve read, that isn’t one of the common side effects of effexor, but everyone is different.  Make sure you’re not taking any over-the-counter (e.g. St John’s Wort) or prescription drugs that might be interacting with the effexor. i am so disgusted.  all i know is, if this is how it feels to be 46 i’d rather be dead.

No, this is NOT how 46 feels!  There is nothing about getting older that makes us feel bad.  It’s the bumps in the road along the way that can drag us down.  But it’s always temporary.  Sooner or later we figure out what’s wrong and set it right.  Please hang on! now, my doctor wants to take me off the effexor to see if it is the problem… i have already slipped backwards because of all this and new financial problems created by my ex— i am scared to death to go off the effexor.

What dosage are you on?  It’s hard to guess because too little Effexor can worsen depression and with it fatigue, but it’s also a possible side effect of the effexor so it’s very difficult to even guess.  I’ve read that lethargy is not usually associated with effexor, so the symptoms and stress you are under sounds more like increasing the dosage might be more appropriate.  Or if the effexor is pooping out on you, switching to another AD drug like Welbutrin.. And with all that stress you’re under, don’t forget that alcohol can  worsen depression. And if you do try to stop the Effexor, remember to do it SLOWLY!!  Take several weeks at least.  The withdrawal symptoms can worsen fatigue if you don’t go slowly. i don’t want to fall down further.   i can’t, i won’t want to get back up.

Just remember that it does and WILL get better.  Not as quickly as any sufferer of depression would like, but it DOES get better.  So hang in there and keep fighting. Bruce.

Response:

I don’t blame you for not wanting to go off the Effexor. I have Addison’s Disease, and I don’t know where I’d be without Effexor. I tried Celexa before, which didn’t work at all. At this point I’m considering switching to something different, but I’m not sure if that’s a good idea. My depression has got much worse in recent months, so perhaps changing drugs is not the right way… What is your dosage? I’m on 150mg/day… Sincerely, Daniel in Tulsa

Response:

hello… and thank you for your kind words.  sorry i can’t reply to each of your messages individually, but i lost your posts when i upgraded to explorer 6 last night.  it was so nice to see so many names i recognized~ rj, bruce, ed p, cindi– she’s back  – and nice to meet jim. things have slowly deteriorating health wise for me… nothing deadly like cancer — i just feel dead.  i think my metabolism is running on empty. after a slew of testing nothing has been found yet…  i am so disgusted.  all i know is, if this is how it feels to be 46 i’d rather be dead.   now, my doctor wants to take me off the effexor to see if it is the problem… i have already slipped backwards because of all this and new financial problems created by my ex— i am scared to death to go off the effexor. i don’t want to fall down further.   i can’t, i won’t want to get back up. — ~i’m so popular ’round here i’ve forgotten my own name~ ASD Birthday Pages<http://www.geocities.com/asdbday/ April Love Pages <http://www.geocities.com/Broadway/Booth/9337/

Response:

Question:

On Mon, 22 Jan 2001 17:43:59 GMT, blueskies…@my-deja.com wrote:

Karen, you hit on what I think hurts me the most about this…his total and complete insensitivity to how I feel about it, and his apparent lack of respect for me. He compromises. It’s his way or no way. I have NOTHING to be upset about, and this, in his opinion, is my problem that I simply need to "get over". He is "doing nothing wrong", and there is no reason that he should stop (his words). I don’t believe he understands the word respect. KB

 Like I said in a previous post, start looking at porn yourself and when he gets upset about it just say he is going to have to get over it. It will show him how you feel when he says it to you. The end result will hopefully be he gets the hint.

Response:

Evolution has designed man to impregnate as many females as he can so as to place more of his genes into the pool. Marriage, and monogamy places restrictions on that plan. Looking at porn (love of female and female anatomy) is a way of spreading his genes…by proxy if you will. By the same token, evolutions plan is that females want to "capture" a male, have his genes inseminate her, and then keep him around to help care for the offspring.  She does not want him spreading any more of his genes. What you are feeling are very deep, evolutionary placed emotions to try to prevent him from moving on. He is paying homage to his instincts just as you are.  And he is doing it in the most acceptable way at this time and place in our society. If he is not spending the babies diaper money on the porn, then leave him alone. If you really want to make him think of you as the most desireable woman in the world, then become his feat accompli and learn to enjoy the porn yourself and include yourself in his viewing. Not too many women do that, but he ones that do become almost irreplaceable in a man’s life. rg <blueskies…@my-deja.com

wrote in message

news:94g65t$i4g$1@nnrp1.deja.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

I just found this group, and I have a question (forgive me if this topic has been discussed before). My husband enjoys viewing porn on the internet. He has even subscribed to 2 websites at a cost of $10/month. I have told him that it bothers me to no end, but his response is that "all men do it" and it’s no big deal. I’ve tried to explain that when he is looking at other women on line, and sometimes, well, let’s say, pleasuring himself, that it makes me feel unattractive, unwanted, and undesirable. I am NOT any of those things. (age 36, blonde, 5′4", 105 pounds, and I can still turn a head or two). I don’t know if I’m overreacting, or being unreasonable. I cannot help the way I feel though, and frankly, the idea of it is a major turn-off for me. Yes, our sex life is very good, quite frequent, satisfying and intense. I have gotten extremely upset over this, to the point of tears, and it falls on deaf ears. I’ve tried begging, pleading, threatening… you name it, to make him stop. He says that I don’t understand, and it’s my problem… I’m being a prude. He will not stop. He doesn’t do it that often (that I’m aware of), but it sickens me to think about it. Am I being unreasonable? Any advice? Thanks….. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/

Response:

It upsets me because I do NOT understand the need for it. As I told him one night, as I caught him with junior in hand, looking at it, WHY does he prefer to jerk off looking at pornography, when he has a perfectly good wife in bed. (he thought I was asleep. I was, but came out for a drink of water). He does not view it in front of me. No, he isn’t spending the baby money (I have an 8yr old son!), but since he is unemployed, guess who IS paying for this!?!?!? KB In article <14939-3A6C8EA6…@storefull-103.iap.bryant.webtv.net

,

  KTGO…@webtv.net (Karen) wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

blueskies wrote, begging, pleading, threatening… you name it, to make him stop. He

says

that I don’t understand, and it’s my problem… I’m being a prude. He will not stop. He doesn’t do it that often (that I’m aware of), but it sickens me to think about it. Am I being unreasonable? Any advice? Thanks….. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/  Does it upset you because he is looking at other woman? Does he make comments about them? Does he try to include you when he is checking

out

this stuff? I am just trying to understand the full picture. My

husband

also views this type of stuff, but it is not the woman or the sex

itself

that he likes. It is his never ending curiosity to find the unusual. something he has never seen before. Some may think that is

disgusting, I

think it is simply human nature.  I feel as long as it is not children he is looking at (which he is firmly against).  Then I see no problem with it. (except for maybe the "hey babe, check this out, gross!".

every

5 seconds). It is not my cup of tea, but I don’t hold it against him. Ps. I can’t believe you are paying for it though! good grief it is

every

where and free. Karen

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/

Response:

On Mon, 22 Jan 2001 21:49:48 GMT, blueskies…@my-deja.com wrote:

but since he is unemployed, guess who IS paying for this!?!?!?

For you is the issue the porn or the fact he is unemployed?  Put another way, if he was working, would this matter as long as you also had a good sex life? Is the porn a new development? Floridanewbie — Love may be blind but marriage is a real eye opener.

Response:

Do you want me to? rg "Jadelee111512" <jadelee111…@aol.com

wrote in message

news:20010122165116.04553.00000626@ng-cc1.aol.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

From: "rg" jobba…@hotmail.com Evolution has designed man to impregnate as many females as he can so as

to

place more of his genes into the pool. Marriage, and monogamy places restrictions on that plan. Looking at porn (love of female and female anatomy) is a way of spreading his genes…by proxy if you will. By the same token, evolutions plan is that females want to "capture" a

male,

have his genes inseminate her, and then keep him around to help care for

the

offspring.  She does not want him spreading any more of his genes. What you are feeling are very deep, evolutionary placed emotions to try

to

prevent him from moving on. He is paying homage to his instincts just as you are.  And he is doing it

in

the most acceptable way at this time and place in our society. If he is not spending the babies diaper money on the porn, then leave him alone. If you really want to make him think of you as the most desireable woman

in

the world, then become his feat accompli and learn to enjoy the porn yourself and include yourself in his viewing. Not too many women do that, but he ones that do become almost

irreplaceable

in a man’s life. rg Couldn’t stay away, eh?

Response:

,,control freak,,shakes head,,, Doc Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/

Response:

If he is unemployed, then he should NOT be spending money on this. This is a totally unnecessary expense. He should be looking for a job, or training for one. rg <blueskies…@my-deja.com

wrote in message

news:94i9to$b1f$1@nnrp1.deja.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

It upsets me because I do NOT understand the need for it. As I told him one night, as I caught him with junior in hand, looking at it, WHY does he prefer to jerk off looking at pornography, when he has a perfectly good wife in bed. (he thought I was asleep. I was, but came out for a drink of water). He does not view it in front of me. No, he isn’t spending the baby money (I have an 8yr old son!), but since he is unemployed, guess who IS paying for this!?!?!? KB In article <14939-3A6C8EA6…@storefull-103.iap.bryant.webtv.net,   KTGO…@webtv.net (Karen) wrote: blueskies wrote, begging, pleading, threatening… you name it, to make him stop. He says that I don’t understand, and it’s my problem… I’m being a prude. He will not stop. He doesn’t do it that often (that I’m aware of), but it sickens me to think about it. Am I being unreasonable? Any advice? Thanks….. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/  Does it upset you because he is looking at other woman? Does he make comments about them? Does he try to include you when he is checking out this stuff? I am just trying to understand the full picture. My husband also views this type of stuff, but it is not the woman or the sex itself that he likes. It is his never ending curiosity to find the unusual. something he has never seen before. Some may think that is disgusting, I think it is simply human nature.  I feel as long as it is not children he is looking at (which he is firmly against).  Then I see no problem with it. (except for maybe the "hey babe, check this out, gross!". every 5 seconds). It is not my cup of tea, but I don’t hold it against him. Ps. I can’t believe you are paying for it though! good grief it is every where and free. Karen Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/

Response:

With the savings, you may be able to get some counseling to find out why you are so upset over the thought of your husband satisfying his biological need for diversity in such a harmless way.  You obvioulsy have some very serious control issues, and if I were him, seeking a divorce would be very near the top of my list, unless you were to experience a very sudden and dramatic attitude change. I hope this helps!!!

I agree about the control.  Things outside of ourselves do not "make" us feel one way or another.  We make ourselves feel the way we do…as a conditioned or congicent response.  Buddism has much to say about that. But I don’t think divorce is the answer.  There is lots of room for resolution of this problem…and it may require a compromise in which he spends a little less time viewing…and you spend a little more time viewing. rg

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

From: "rg" jobba…@hotmail.com Evolution has designed man to impregnate as many females as he can so as to place more of his genes into the pool. Marriage, and monogamy places restrictions on that plan. Looking at porn (love of female and female anatomy) is a way of spreading his genes…by proxy if you will. By the same token, evolutions plan is that females want to "capture" a male, have his genes inseminate her, and then keep him around to help care for the offspring.  She does not want him spreading any more of his genes. What you are feeling are very deep, evolutionary placed emotions to try to prevent him from moving on. He is paying homage to his instincts just as you are.  And he is doing it in the most acceptable way at this time and place in our society. If he is not spending the babies diaper money on the porn, then leave him alone. If you really want to make him think of you as the most desireable woman in the world, then become his feat accompli and learn to enjoy the porn yourself and include yourself in his viewing. Not too many women do that, but he ones that do become almost irreplaceable in a man’s life. rg

Couldn’t stay away, eh?

Response:

blueskies wrote, begging, pleading, threatening… you name it, to make him stop. He says that I don’t understand, and it’s my problem… I’m being a prude. He will not stop. He doesn’t do it that often (that I’m aware of), but it sickens me to think about it. Am I being unreasonable? Any advice? Thanks….. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/    Does it upset you because he is looking at other woman? Does he make comments about them? Does he try to include you when he is checking out this stuff? I am just trying to understand the full picture. My husband also views this type of stuff, but it is not the woman or the sex itself that he likes. It is his never ending curiosity to find the unusual. something he has never seen before. Some may think that is disgusting, I think it is simply human nature.  I feel as long as it is not children he is looking at (which he is firmly against).  Then I see no problem with it. (except for maybe the "hey babe, check this out, gross!". every 5 seconds). It is not my cup of tea, but I don’t hold it against him. Ps. I can’t believe you are paying for it though! good grief it is every where and free. Karen

Response:

You are *not* being unreasonable.  I would wonder why, when something is this important to you, your husband has to turn into "dork mode" and make a case out of it being "your problem".    Hopefully he can be brought around to seeing what a selfish action this is, and how counter-productive to an intimate relationship this is. Best of luck, LS

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -JohnyK wrote:

On Mon, 22 Jan 2001 02:33:33 GMT, blueskies…@my-deja.com wrote: I just found this group, and I have a question (forgive me if this topic has been discussed before). My husband enjoys viewing porn on the internet. He has even subscribed to 2 websites at a cost of $10/month. I have told him that it bothers me to no end, but his response is that "all men do it" and it’s no big deal. I’ve tried to explain that when he is looking at other women on line, and sometimes, well, let’s say, pleasuring himself, that it makes me feel unattractive, unwanted, and undesirable. I am NOT any of those things. (age 36, blonde, 5′4", 105 pounds, and I can still turn a head or two). I don’t know if I’m overreacting, or being unreasonable. I cannot help the way I feel though, and frankly, the idea of it is a major turn-off for me. Yes, our sex life is very good, quite frequent, satisfying and intense. I have gotten extremely upset over this, to the point of tears, and it falls on deaf ears. I’ve tried begging, pleading, threatening… you name it, to make him stop. He says that I don’t understand, and it’s my problem… I’m being a prude. He will not stop. He doesn’t do it that often (that I’m aware of), but it sickens me to think about it. Am I being unreasonable? Any advice? Thanks…..  Go to sites that have men pictured on them and see if he likes it when you do this.  This is not a joke…..I’m dead serious

I agree with JohnnyK on this, go to a porn site just for Women and see if he likes it.

Response:

Karen, Can you explain the ‘comfort and security’ males get from this? I have the same problem at home also, and it causes me many days of grief wondering what’s wrong with me/him. I’m trying to understand exactly what it is that they get from viewing all this porn. Mine does it when I’m not home, boy does that really want to make me leave the house!! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

BTW, watching porn has nothing to do with your attractiveness. It’s a way for him to get comfort, much like a baby bottle or security blanket. Karen

Response:

Karen, you hit on what I think hurts me the most about this…his total and complete insensitivity to how I feel about it, and his apparent lack of respect for me. He compromises. It’s his way or no way. I have NOTHING to be upset about, and this, in his opinion, is my problem that I simply need to "get over". He is "doing nothing wrong", and there is no reason that he should stop (his words). I don’t believe he understands the word respect. KB In article <94hprh$6k…@carroll.library.ucla.edu

,

  ro…@hhmi.ucla.edu (Karen Ronan) wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

The problem isn’t really porn. It’s your husband’s insensitivity and deaf ears to your hurt feelings. Many men watch porn and also put some limits/boundaries on it out of ***respect*** for their wives’ feelings. Your husband is totally unwilling to respect your feelings and make some compromises, and that is a problem in a marriage. BTW, watching porn has nothing to do with your attractiveness. It’s a way for him to get comfort, much like a baby bottle or security blanket. Karen blueskies…@my-deja.com writes: I just found this group, and I have a question (forgive me if this topic has been discussed before). My husband enjoys viewing porn on

the

internet. He has even subscribed to 2 websites at a cost of

$10/month.

I have told him that it bothers me to no end, but his response is that "all men do it" and it’s no big deal. I’ve tried to explain

that

when he is looking at other women on line, and sometimes, well,

let’s

say, pleasuring himself, that it makes me feel unattractive,

unwanted,

and undesirable. I am NOT any of those things. (age 36, blonde,

5′4",

105 pounds, and I can still turn a head or two). I don’t know if I’m overreacting, or being unreasonable. I cannot help the way I feel though, and frankly, the idea of it is a major turn-off for me. Yes, our sex life is very good, quite frequent, satisfying and intense. I have gotten extremely upset over this, to the point of tears, and it falls on deaf ears. I’ve tried begging, pleading, threatening… you name it, to make him stop. He says that I don’t understand, and

it’s my

problem… I’m being a prude. He will not stop. He doesn’t do it

that

often (that I’m aware of), but it sickens me to think about it. Am I being unreasonable? Any advice? Thanks…..

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/

Response:

The problem isn’t really porn. It’s your husband’s insensitivity and deaf ears to your hurt feelings. Many men watch porn and also put some limits/boundaries on it out of ***respect*** for their wives’ feelings. Your husband is totally unwilling to respect your feelings and make some compromises, and that is a problem in a marriage. BTW, watching porn has nothing to do with your attractiveness. It’s a way for him to get comfort, much like a baby bottle or security blanket. Karen – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -blueskies…@my-deja.com writes:

I just found this group, and I have a question (forgive me if this topic has been discussed before). My husband enjoys viewing porn on the internet. He has even subscribed to 2 websites at a cost of $10/month. I have told him that it bothers me to no end, but his response is that "all men do it" and it’s no big deal. I’ve tried to explain that when he is looking at other women on line, and sometimes, well, let’s say, pleasuring himself, that it makes me feel unattractive, unwanted, and undesirable. I am NOT any of those things. (age 36, blonde, 5′4", 105 pounds, and I can still turn a head or two). I don’t know if I’m overreacting, or being unreasonable. I cannot help the way I feel though, and frankly, the idea of it is a major turn-off for me. Yes, our sex life is very good, quite frequent, satisfying and intense. I have gotten extremely upset over this, to the point of tears, and it falls on deaf ears. I’ve tried begging, pleading, threatening… you name it, to make him stop. He says that I don’t understand, and it’s my problem… I’m being a prude. He will not stop. He doesn’t do it that often (that I’m aware of), but it sickens me to think about it. Am I being unreasonable? Any advice? Thanks…..

Response:

thank you for the food for thought. You hit quite a few nails on the head. Now, I just have to figure out how 2 bullheaded people to work through the underlying issues…… or not.  Thank you for your helpful insights, except of course for the one that said HE should divorce me over it… KB peel an onion and there are many layers…. In article <94hj3g$u…@bob.news.rcn.net

,

  "urf" <urf…@nospam.com

wrote:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

In an odd way you are BOTH being effected by porn in the SAME way. You are both having an EMOTIONAL reaction. This is about what you are FEELING and what he is FEELING. There is no part of this that is logical or even well thought out. When faced with problems involing FEELINGS I always find it is best to go DEEP into the feeling. Look for the why of your feelings. Often the why is unrelated to the incident that provokes the feeling. I would say the same thing to your husband but since your the only one here I’ll focus on you. Here are some POSSIBILITIES that you might consider. Things that can cause negative emotional responses. Anger issues. Misplaced anger. Has there been a patten of behavior

that has

you feeling bad about your relationship in general? Are you taking it

out on

him? Insecurity issues. Does he give you reasons to doubt his commitment

to you.

No compliments. No positive reenforcement for your efforts. No affection

shown

towards you. Control issues. Perhaps your reaction is negative because you can not control him. You want him to bend to your will but he won’t. Not just in this

but

other areas as well. This is just a focal point of that feeling. Fear. You might be afraid that you are losing him. This might be

another

example of how he is moving away from you. Notice these are mostly negative emotional states. If they were

positive you

would not be having any problem. If you felt adored you would not care if he

admired a

picture on a piece of glass. If you felt loved you would not feel afraid that

he

might desire to go elsewhere. Just food for thought <blueskies…@my-deja.com wrote in message news:94g65t$i4g$1@nnrp1.deja.com… I just found this group, and I have a question (forgive me if this topic has been discussed before). My husband enjoys viewing porn on

the

internet. He has even subscribed to 2 websites at a cost of

$10/month.

I have told him that it bothers me to no end, but his response is that "all men do it" and it’s no big deal. I’ve tried to explain

that

when he is looking at other women on line, and sometimes, well,

let’s

say, pleasuring himself, that it makes me feel unattractive,

unwanted,

and undesirable. I am NOT any of those things. (age 36, blonde,

5′4",

105 pounds, and I can still turn a head or two). I don’t know if I’m overreacting, or being unreasonable. I cannot help the way I feel though, and frankly, the idea of it is a major turn-off for me. Yes, our sex life is very good, quite frequent, satisfying and intense. I have gotten extremely upset over this, to the point of tears, and it falls on deaf ears. I’ve tried begging, pleading, threatening… you name it, to make him stop. He says that I don’t understand, and

it’s my

problem… I’m being a prude. He will not stop. He doesn’t do it

that

often (that I’m aware of), but it sickens me to think about it. Am I being unreasonable? Any advice? Thanks….. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/

Response:

From: "urf" urf…@nospam.com In an odd way you are BOTH being effected by porn in the SAME way. You are both having an EMOTIONAL reaction.

Actually it is possible that she is having an emotional reaction and he is having a physical reaction.  One of the things that porn allows is to numb out and NOT feel emotions…which is why some men choose it.  It enables them to stay in a state of numbness and not have to experience emotions.

This is about what you are FEELING and what he is FEELING.

Not necessarily.  She is reacting to his behavior…they may not necessarily be as closely related to feeling as they are to simply responding.

When faced with problems involing FEELINGS I always find it is best to go DEEP into the feeling. Look for the why of your feelings. Often the why is unrelated to the incident that provokes the feeling.

It is a good idea for each of them to figure out why they are feeling or responding or reacting in the ways that they are.  It is my guess that he is too much into the *doing* and she is into the *responding* that going into the feeling just may not be possible (right now). Anger, insecurity, control and fear are certainly issues that might exist for this poster.  Since she is in a marriage, it makes sense for the two of them to be working together on what emotions exist (or are missing)…and for the two of them to look inward.  Not just her….porn issues in a marriage are a two way street.

Response:

In article <94g65t$i4…@nnrp1.deja.com

,

  blueskies…@my-deja.com wrote:

I just found this group, and I have a question (forgive me if this topic has been discussed before). My husband enjoys viewing porn on the internet. He has even subscribed to 2 websites at a cost of $10/month. I have told him that it bothers me to no end, but his response is that "all men do it" and it’s no big deal.

$20 a month on online porn is very wasteful.  I would recommend that he visit http://www.hardcorejunky.net/links2.html, which has a great deal of categorized FREE links (the Latina page, http://www.hardcorejunky.net/latinas.html, is my personal favorite!!!). With the savings, you may be able to get some counseling to find out why you are so upset over the thought of your husband satisfying his biological need for diversity in such a harmless way.  You obvioulsy have some very serious control issues, and if I were him, seeking a divorce would be very near the top of my list, unless you were to experience a very sudden and dramatic attitude change. I hope this helps!!! Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/

Response:

subversionma…@my-deja.com wrote:

$20 a month on online porn is very wasteful.  I would recommend that he visit http://www.hardcorejunky.net/links2.html, which has a great deal of categorized FREE links (the Latina page, http://www.hardcorejunky.net/latinas.html, is my personal favorite!!!). With the savings, you may be able to get some counseling to find out why you are so upset over the thought of your husband satisfying his biological need for diversity in such a harmless way.  You obvioulsy have some very serious control issues,

No, that’s not obvious at all. That conclusion is premature. Indeed, it might have nothing at all to do with her and everything to do with him. **********

and if I were him, seeking a divorce would be very near the top of my list, unless you were to experience a very sudden and dramatic attitude change.

Reverse the roles for a moment Sub. For example, if it’s your wife who was getting off on porn on a regular basis by herself, how would you feel about that situation? CJ

Response:

Yes, I think you are overreacting. I recommend Nadine Strossen’s book "Defending Pornography." Also, try watching a porn movie on your own. You might like it. — Walt In article <94g65t$i4…@nnrp1.deja.com

,

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -  blueskies…@my-deja.com wrote:

I just found this group, and I have a question (forgive me if this topic has been discussed before). My husband enjoys viewing porn on

the

internet. He has even subscribed to 2 websites at a cost of $10/month. I have told him that it bothers me to no end, but his response is that "all men do it" and it’s no big deal. I’ve tried to explain that when he is looking at other women on line, and sometimes, well, let’s say, pleasuring himself, that it makes me feel unattractive, unwanted, and undesirable. I am NOT any of those things. (age 36, blonde, 5′4", 105 pounds, and I can still turn a head or two). I don’t know if I’m overreacting, or being unreasonable. I cannot help the way I feel though, and frankly, the idea of it is a major turn-off for me. Yes, our sex life is very good, quite frequent, satisfying and intense. I have gotten extremely upset over this, to the point of tears, and it falls on deaf ears. I’ve tried begging, pleading, threatening… you name it, to make him stop. He says that I don’t understand, and it’s

my

problem… I’m being a prude. He will not stop. He doesn’t do it that often (that I’m aware of), but it sickens me to think about it. Am I being unreasonable? Any advice? Thanks….. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/

Response:

In an odd way you are BOTH being effected by porn in the SAME way. You are both having an EMOTIONAL reaction. This is about what you are FEELING and what he is FEELING. There is no part of this that is logical or even well thought out. When faced with problems involing FEELINGS I always find it is best to go DEEP into the feeling. Look for the why of your feelings. Often the why is unrelated to the incident that provokes the feeling. I would say the same thing to your husband but since your the only one here I’ll focus on you. Here are some POSSIBILITIES that you might consider. Things that can cause negative emotional responses. Anger issues. Misplaced anger. Has there been a patten of behavior that has you feeling bad about your relationship in general? Are you taking it out on him? Insecurity issues. Does he give you reasons to doubt his commitment to you. No compliments. No positive reenforcement for your efforts. No affection shown towards you. Control issues. Perhaps your reaction is negative because you can not control him. You want him to bend to your will but he won’t. Not just in this but other areas as well. This is just a focal point of that feeling. Fear. You might be afraid that you are losing him. This might be another example of how he is moving away from you. Notice these are mostly negative emotional states. If they were positive you would not be having any problem. If you felt adored you would not care if he admired a picture on a piece of glass. If you felt loved you would not feel afraid that he might desire to go elsewhere. Just food for thought <blueskies…@my-deja.com

wrote in message

news:94g65t$i4g$1@nnrp1.deja.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

I just found this group, and I have a question (forgive me if this topic has been discussed before). My husband enjoys viewing porn on the internet. He has even subscribed to 2 websites at a cost of $10/month. I have told him that it bothers me to no end, but his response is that "all men do it" and it’s no big deal. I’ve tried to explain that when he is looking at other women on line, and sometimes, well, let’s say, pleasuring himself, that it makes me feel unattractive, unwanted, and undesirable. I am NOT any of those things. (age 36, blonde, 5′4", 105 pounds, and I can still turn a head or two). I don’t know if I’m overreacting, or being unreasonable. I cannot help the way I feel though, and frankly, the idea of it is a major turn-off for me. Yes, our sex life is very good, quite frequent, satisfying and intense. I have gotten extremely upset over this, to the point of tears, and it falls on deaf ears. I’ve tried begging, pleading, threatening… you name it, to make him stop. He says that I don’t understand, and it’s my problem… I’m being a prude. He will not stop. He doesn’t do it that often (that I’m aware of), but it sickens me to think about it. Am I being unreasonable? Any advice? Thanks….. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/

Response:

In article <20010122034152.11992.00000…@ng-fl1.aol.com

,

  cjmorga…@aol.com (CJMorgan59) wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

subversionma…@my-deja.com wrote: $20 a month on online porn is very wasteful.  I would recommend that

he

visit http://www.hardcorejunky.net/links2.html, which has a great

deal

of categorized FREE links (the Latina page, http://www.hardcorejunky.net/latinas.html, is my personal

favorite!!!).

With the savings, you may be able to get some counseling to find out why you are so upset over the thought of your husband satisfying his biological need for diversity in such a harmless way.  You obvioulsy have some very serious control issues, No, that’s not obvious at all. That conclusion is premature. Indeed,

it might

have nothing at all to do with her and everything to do with him. ********** and if I were him, seeking a divorce would be very near the top of my list, unless you were to experience a very sudden and dramatic attitude change. Reverse the roles for a moment Sub. For example, if it’s your wife who

was

getting off on porn on a regular basis by herself, how would you feel

about

that situation? CJ

As long as I was getting all the attention I needed too, it wouldn’t bother me a bit.  I have no need to control her mind.  Since she says they have a great sex life, the problem is obviously her control issues. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/

Response:

I just found this group, and I have a question (forgive me if this topic has been discussed before). My husband enjoys viewing porn on the internet. He has even subscribed to 2 websites at a cost of $10/month. I have told him that it bothers me to no end, but his response is that "all men do it" and it’s no big deal. I’ve tried to explain that when he is looking at other women on line, and sometimes, well, let’s say, pleasuring himself, that it makes me feel unattractive, unwanted, and undesirable. I am NOT any of those things. (age 36, blonde, 5′4", 105 pounds, and I can still turn a head or two). I don’t know if I’m overreacting, or being unreasonable. I cannot help the way I feel though, and frankly, the idea of it is a major turn-off for me. Yes, our sex life is very good, quite frequent, satisfying and intense. I have gotten extremely upset over this, to the point of tears, and it falls on deaf ears. I’ve tried begging, pleading, threatening… you name it, to make him stop. He says that I don’t understand, and it’s my problem… I’m being a prude. He will not stop. He doesn’t do it that often (that I’m aware of), but it sickens me to think about it. Am I being unreasonable? Any advice? Thanks….. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/

Response:

From: blueskies…@my-deja.com I just found this group, and I have a question (forgive me if this topic has been discussed before).

This topic has been discussed before.  Many a time.  And if it weren’t you, it would be someone else to bring it up again…and again and again.  So, no need to apologize )

My husband enjoys viewing porn on the internet. He has even subscribed to 2 websites at a cost of $10/month. I have told him that it bothers me to no end, but his response is that "all men do it" and it’s no big deal.

There are men that can look at porn and it’s no big deal…sometimes it turns them on and they end up making love to their wives and all is well that ends well.  Then there are men that look at porn and all kinds of problems occur…anywhere from not being able to get it up to getting it up and not being able to climax with their spouse.  And many other problems in between. Just like, some people can have a glass or two of wine andthere is no problem and for others, having a glass of wine turns into a problem.

I don’t know if I’m overreacting, or being unreasonable.

Some of it may be your stuff (insecurity or low self esteem) and some of it may be his stuff (more than just plain old guy stuff).  Have you tried talking to him about this…when he is not doing what you don’t like?

Yes, our sex life is very good, quite frequent, satisfying and intense.

So it’s safe to assume that you’re thinking, "if our sex life is frequent and satisfying and intense, then why the hell does he need that crap?"  While it doesn’t make sense to you…it may make sense to him.  Have you ever asked him what it is about the porno that keeps him interested?

I have gotten extremely upset over this, to the point of tears, and it falls on deaf ears

Many people will continue to do what they do despite protestations…men or women.  The bottom line is that he is aware that it is bothering you.  It is important that you both reach some kind of understanding about what porno means to each of you.  Until then, you won’t be able to find some common ground.

I’ve tried begging, pleading, threatening… you name it, to make him stop. He says that I don’t understand, and it’s my problem…

I feel confident in saying that each of you has a  problem with it…it not simply a matter of it being only one you with a problem.  I am not saying that both of you are messed up..but what I am saying is that somewhere, at some time, some wiring went in a particular direction and you both have to find a way to re-wire yourselves in order to connect.    He will not stop. He doesn’t do it that

often (that I’m aware of), but it sickens me to think about it. Am I being unreasonable? Any advice? Thanks…..

I think that you both need some intervention.  A person who can help both of you understand where each of you are.  Without knowing both of you, I can’t realistically say that either of you are wrong.  What I feel confident in saying is that you both could use an unbiased party to help you both understand each other better.  Both of you can bet your needs met if you can better listen to each other. Chances are, you are going to get some strong opinions about porn in here.  I strongly advice you to take what you need and leave the rest.  DO NOT take what posters say personally.  Everyone has their idea of pornography and not everyone has a full understanding of the possiblity of porn not necessarily being healthy in all relationships.   Hang in there!

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -On Mon, 22 Jan 2001 02:33:33 GMT, blueskies…@my-deja.com wrote:

I just found this group, and I have a question (forgive me if this topic has been discussed before). My husband enjoys viewing porn on the internet. He has even subscribed to 2 websites at a cost of $10/month. I have told him that it bothers me to no end, but his response is that "all men do it" and it’s no big deal. I’ve tried to explain that when he is looking at other women on line, and sometimes, well, let’s say, pleasuring himself, that it makes me feel unattractive, unwanted, and undesirable. I am NOT any of those things. (age 36, blonde, 5′4", 105 pounds, and I can still turn a head or two). I don’t know if I’m overreacting, or being unreasonable. I cannot help the way I feel though, and frankly, the idea of it is a major turn-off for me. Yes, our sex life is very good, quite frequent, satisfying and intense. I have gotten extremely upset over this, to the point of tears, and it falls on deaf ears. I’ve tried begging, pleading, threatening… you name it, to make him stop. He says that I don’t understand, and it’s my problem… I’m being a prude. He will not stop. He doesn’t do it that often (that I’m aware of), but it sickens me to think about it. Am I being unreasonable? Any advice? Thanks…..

 Go to sites that have men pictured on them and see if he likes it when you do this.  This is not a joke…..I’m dead serious

Response:

Question:

Hi everyone. 4 weeks off Zoloft(for Anxiety)- coping fairly well, some days really suck and others are fine. Apparently I do my current job to well or the company is desperate for help.  I dunno, but I am flattered that I am being asked.  My situation is this. I do not need the money ( I guess I could probably make $2. more per hour ) but Christmas is coming – It would help out (If I can stand to shop long enough –  I hate the hustle and bustle) I consider myself fairly intellegent and enjoy doing my job well and having people notice. I do want to be challenged mentally as well as with the anxiety. I do want to "HELP" my struggling boss trying to do 2 + jobs. But: I do not want to supervise a bunch of whining brats. I do not to run around the office like my hair is on fire. I do want to sleep at nite. I tend to (Process) things in my head over and over. I have a week to decide. My main concern is my mental health – I don’t want to stir up anything- but yet I don’t know if just taking the EASIER way – Is the best way to go through the rest of my life. (I’m 31) I guess I feel somewhat obligated to try this out (after all "they think pretty highly of me")- the Supervisor said I could return to my current position if I want to -but could I look him in the eye and ask to be demoted? He probably would talk me out of it just as he is trying to talk me into it. I know that none of you know me or the company I work for- but what do you think? Bonnie Before you buy.

Response:

Glad to hear you’re doing  well off med,and at your job,  BUT  give it a lot of thought before you take the promotion.  I got the shaft recently with a co. who loved me, bragged about me, put me in charge of buying as well as asst. mngr, but, then when I got ill they didn’t want me, harrassed me, lied about me, etc.  It’s much better to be loved where you are than to be treated so poorly.   My last job before this one,  demoted me   for getting ill and missing to much hard long hours, and the only satisfaction is knowing you did your best, and whatever makes us ill, we don;t ask for.  Mine was asthma, no mental problem at that time.    Anyway -Good Luck in your future, and with love and concern I will pray whatever decesion you make that God helps you to make the right one.  We are each diff. LOL Charisma  

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi everyone. 4 weeks off Zoloft(for Anxiety)- coping fairly well, some days really suck and others are fine. Apparently I do my current job to well or the company is desperate for help.  I dunno, but I am flattered that I am being asked.  My situation is this. I do not need the money ( I guess I could probably make $2. more per hour ) but Christmas is coming – It would help out (If I can stand to shop long enough –  I hate the hustle and bustle) I consider myself fairly intellegent and enjoy doing my job well and having people notice. I do want to be challenged mentally as well as with the anxiety. I do want to "HELP" my struggling boss trying to do 2 + jobs. But: I do not want to supervise a bunch of whining brats. I do not to run around the office like my hair is on fire. I do want to sleep at nite. I tend to (Process) things in my head over and over. I have a week to decide. My main concern is my mental health – I don’t want to stir up anything- but yet I don’t know if just taking the EASIER way – Is the best way to go through the rest of my life. (I’m 31) I guess I feel somewhat obligated to try this out (after all "they think pretty highly of me")- the Supervisor said I could return to my current position if I want to -but could I look him in the eye and ask to be demoted? He probably would talk me out of it just as he is trying to talk me into it. I know that none of you know me or the company I work for- but what do you think? Bonnie

Dear Bonnie, Congratulations on being offered a promotion, I am sure that had to make you feel good Only you can decide whether or not you should go for it. I think it is great that your boss would allow you to go back to your old position if need be. I wish you much luck in whatever you decide!! Take care. Jackie ~*~You may be deceived if you trust too much, but you will live in torment if

Response:

Hi, bonnie, Pat yourself on the back for me – it is a tremendous feeling to be noticed and given the chance for a promotion.  About ten years ago I was in the same situation and it made me feel wonderful.  but for many reasons, one being anxiety, I didn’t accept and to this day I know I made the right decision. Absolutely love my job and wouldn’t give it up unless I had to.  Not many people are this fortunate to love their jobs but when you have one you do enjoy it makes going to work much easier.  good luck on your decision making and please let us know wht you decide. smiles, elise

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi everyone. 4 weeks off Zoloft(for Anxiety)- coping fairly well, some days really suck and others are fine. Apparently I do my current job to well or the company is desperate for help.  I dunno, but I am flattered that I am being asked.  My situation is this. I do not need the money ( I guess I could probably make $2. more per hour ) but Christmas is coming – It would help out (If I can stand to shop long enough –  I hate the hustle and bustle) I consider myself fairly intellegent and enjoy doing my job well and having people notice. I do want to be challenged mentally as well as with the anxiety. I do want to "HELP" my struggling boss trying to do 2 + jobs. But: I do not want to supervise a bunch of whining brats. I do not to run around the office like my hair is on fire. I do want to sleep at nite. I tend to (Process) things in my head over and over. I have a week to decide. My main concern is my mental health – I don’t want to stir up anything- but yet I don’t know if just taking the EASIER way – Is the best way to go through the rest of my life. (I’m 31) I guess I feel somewhat obligated to try this out (after all "they think pretty highly of me")- the Supervisor said I could return to my current position if I want to -but could I look him in the eye and ask to be demoted? He probably would talk me out of it just as he is trying to talk me into it. I know that none of you know me or the company I work for- but what do you think? Bonnie Dear Bonnie, Congratulations on being offered a promotion, I am sure that had to make you feel good Only you can decide whether or not you should go for it. I think it is great that your boss would allow you to go back to your old position if need be. I wish you much luck in whatever you decide!! Take care. Jackie ~*~You may be deceived if you trust too much, but you will live in torment if

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi everyone. 4 weeks off Zoloft(for Anxiety)- coping fairly well, some days really suck and others are fine. Apparently I do my current job to well or the company is desperate for help.  I dunno, but I am flattered that I am being asked.  My situation is this. I do not need the money ( I guess I could probably make $2. more per hour ) but Christmas is coming – It would help out (If I can stand to shop long enough –  I hate the hustle and bustle) I consider myself fairly intellegent and enjoy doing my job well and having people notice. I do want to be challenged mentally as well as with the anxiety. I do want to "HELP" my struggling boss trying to do 2 + jobs. But: I do not want to supervise a bunch of whining brats. I do not to run around the office like my hair is on fire. I do want to sleep at nite. I tend to (Process) things in my head over and over. I have a week to decide. My main concern is my mental health – I don’t want to stir up anything- but yet I don’t know if just taking the EASIER way – Is the best way to go through the rest of my life. (I’m 31) I guess I feel somewhat obligated to try this out (after all "they think pretty highly of me")- the Supervisor said I could return to my current position if I want to – but could I look him in the eye and ask to be demoted? He probably would talk me out of it just as he is trying to talk me into it. I know that none of you know me or the company I work for- but what do you think? Bonnie Before you buy. I haven’t decided for sure yet.  But I think I’m going to take a

chance and do the thing I fear most.  I appreciate all of your advice- I’m going into this with my eyes wide open- and if it doesn’t work out and they don’t let me do my old job- well then maybe it’s time to move on. (I fear that too) I will keep you posted. Best of Health to you all, Bonnie Before you buy.

Response:

Question:

I’ve been on Prozac, Paxil, Zoloft and Trazodone.  The Trazodone is nice in that it helps me sleep at night(that is mainly what I use it for.  The Zoloft did not work for me, either.  The only thing I recall working is the Prozac.  I am back on it as of today.  I will see how it works this time.  :-)

Response:

I haven’t noticed much in the way of side effects besides being sleepy the first couple weeks.

Aha… so I’m not the only one… hehe… Liah who is sleeping way too much

Response:

Of all the SSRI type meds, I liked  Paxil the best. Im kinda aggressive (not violent) and it takes the edge off better than zac or loft. Kinda costs more tho….. Good luck 2u, Kev – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I switched from Zoloft to Prozac for the same reason.  This is my second go round with Prozac.  I haven’t noticed much in the way of side effects besides being sleepy the first couple weeks.  It’s gotten me out of the depths, but I’m not really *happy* per se, so I think it’s gonna take therapy to get me the rest of the way. Melissa — Hand over the chocolate, and no one gets hurt.

Response:

I switched from Zoloft to Prozac for the same reason.  This is my second go round with Prozac.  I haven’t noticed much in the way of side effects besides being sleepy the first couple weeks.  It’s gotten me out of the depths, but I’m not really *happy* per se, so I think it’s gonna take therapy to get me the rest of the way. Melissa — Hand over the chocolate, and no one gets hurt.

Response:

trina, different ADs work differently in different people, i was on zoloft but had no success, same thing with prozac, effexor, and now i’m trying aropax again. Because they have different effects on different people it makes it difficult to try to recommend any other AD’s, all i can rwally say is keep trying until you find something you feel works for you. Good Luck! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i started taking zoloft back in april.  i think it helped my depression for a bit, but i don’t think it does anymore.  lately i’ve been getting more and more depressed, and i realized that this could simply be due to the fact that the weather is changing and all, but it doesn’t feel like just that. i’ve been having a lot of problems dealing with life in the real world lately, avoiding obligations, calling in sick to work because i can’t get out of bed, etc.  i’ve been starting to wonder if zoloft ever really worked for me, or if the "up" (not that it was a very high up) i felt might have just been a placebo effect because i was finally doing something about my depression. has anyone else had this same experience?  if so, what did you do about it? i’ve been thinking about asking my doctor (just a GP, i don’t have a pdoc) to prescribe me some new meds.  i don’t know that much about ADs though. what i’ve learned about drugs other than SSRIs kinda scares me (possibly unfounded), so i would kind of like to stick within the SSRI group.  i’ve been told that prozac has a bit more of a "kick" than zoloft, is that true? has anyone here ever switched from zoloft to prozac, and if so, what are the differences in positive effect, side effects, etc.?  also, any strong recommendations for other drugs?  i would really appreciate some help with this, because i’ve been really struggling.  i’m afraid i’m going to get really bad again, and won’t be able to handle it.  i need to be better, because i can’t afford to be bad right now. thanks in advance, trina take "nospam" out of the reply address to e-mail.

Response:

i started taking zoloft back in april.  i think it helped my depression for a bit, but i don’t think it does anymore.  lately i’ve been getting more and more depressed, and i realized that this could simply be due to the fact that the weather is changing and all, but it doesn’t feel like just that. i’ve been having a lot of problems dealing with life in the real world lately, avoiding obligations, calling in sick to work because i can’t get out of bed, etc.  i’ve been starting to wonder if zoloft ever really worked for me, or if the "up" (not that it was a very high up) i felt might have just been a placebo effect because i was finally doing something about my depression. has anyone else had this same experience?  if so, what did you do about it? i’ve been thinking about asking my doctor (just a GP, i don’t have a pdoc) to prescribe me some new meds.  i don’t know that much about ADs though. what i’ve learned about drugs other than SSRIs kinda scares me (possibly unfounded), so i would kind of like to stick within the SSRI group.  i’ve been told that prozac has a bit more of a "kick" than zoloft, is that true? has anyone here ever switched from zoloft to prozac, and if so, what are the differences in positive effect, side effects, etc.?  also, any strong recommendations for other drugs?  i would really appreciate some help with this, because i’ve been really struggling.  i’m afraid i’m going to get really bad again, and won’t be able to handle it.  i need to be better, because i can’t afford to be bad right now. thanks in advance, trina take "nospam" out of the reply address to e-mail.

Response:

Question:

OK folks, We now have a working questionnaire. Fill it out if you like Expect a delay in the initial response. The reports I send you back via e-mail will be better once I have entered a number of questionnaires into our database. Also keep in mind that I am processing the questionnaires myself and have human limitations if hundreds of questionnaires come pouring in. But I do plan to send an individualized report to everyone who sends me a completed questionnaire.                                 Best Wishes,                                 Arthur        A Questionnaire of Symptoms and Treatments             for Anxiety and Panic Disorders Introduction: This is a questionnaire regarding the symptoms and treatments associated with anxiety and panic disorders. If you fill out this questionnaire and send it to confidential database with the responses of others. Based on case by case similarities, a private report will be generated for your specific case which will suggest treatments that other related cases have found helpful. This private report will be sent to you via e-mail so that you and your doctor may explore such treatments at your discretion. There is no fee associated with this service. The only public reports that may be posted in future would regard general observations of the many cases and will not include names or data specific to any one case. Processing of all questionnaires and generation of reports have no professional certification in medicine, psychiatry, or psychology. I am, however, a fellow sufferer of panic disorder and am applying my background in science and computing to help us find relief from chronic anxiety and panic. This effort is driven by the current lack of adequate diagnostics for anxiety and panic disorders. Instructions: If you have ever experienced an anxiety or panic disorder, please fill out this questionnaire. Even if you consider yourself recovered, please fill out this questionnaire as best as you can remember your experiences. Enter your answers to the right of each question or item. Answers do not have to be precise, simply an approximate guess will do. Do not to focus on your worst or last attack, but consider your attacks in general as you answer these questions. When finished, please e-mail (DO NOT POST) your completed completely confidential. General Questions: Please indicate your Sex (M/F). At what Age do you believe your anxiety or panic disorder began? How long ago was your last anxiety or panic attack? (five years ago? three months ago? yesterday?) Currently, do you feel that your life is being more controlled or less controlled by anxiety or panic attacks? (less/same/more) Do you think there is a history of anxiety-panic disorder in your family? (Y/N) The following sentences describe anxiety or panic of different severity. For each sentence, indicate how often you experience such anxiety or panic. 0 = never 1 = several times over several years 2 = several times a year 4 = several times a month 6 = several times a week 8 = several times a day 10 = constantly every day I am nervous, but I can still function. I am very nervous, but I think I can get through the next hour. I am scared, and would like to go home immediately. I am very frightened, and don’t feel comfortable anywhere. I am terrified and feel like I’m about to pass out. I am terrified and feel that I am about to die. I am horrified beyond death-like terror. I am actually "paralyzed" with unimaginable horror. During our anxiety or panic disorder, we may experience a variety of symptoms. These symptoms may occur either during or between attacks. Please rate the severity of which you have experienced each of the following symptoms on a scale of zero to ten. (Blank or 0 = not at all, …, 10 = extremely severe) Fears and Phobias: Agoraphobia (a fear of anxiety or panic attacks that often results in a growing avoidance of things or situations) Fear of Being Alone Fear of Being With People Fear of Closed Spaces (Claustrophobia) Fear of Confrontation Fear of Dark Rooms Fear of Diseases (Hypochondria) Fear of Dying Fear of Fear Fear of Food Poisoning or Contamination Fear of God Fear of Going Insane Fear of Heights (Acrophobia) Fear of Help Not Being Available Fear of Humiliation Fear of Living Fear of Open Spaces Fear of Persecution Fear of Public Places Fear of Public Speaking Fear of Responsibility (Performance Anxiety) Fear of Social Diseases (VD, AIDS, etc.) Fear of Social Situations Fear of Snakes Fear of Specific People Fear of Spiders (Arachniphobia) Fear of Standing in Lines Fear of Traveling Psychological Sensations: Anger Anxiety (In Certain Situations) Anxiety (Generalized, Anytime) Anxiety (School, Work, Career) Anxiety (Family) Anxiety (Friends) Anxiety (Romance) Compulsive or Overly Repetitive Behavior Concentration Difficulty Chronic Nightmares Chronic Worrying Crying Depression Derealisation (Feeling of Unreality) Depersonalisation Dissociation Eating Disorder (Bulimia, Anorexia) Eating Disorder (Compulsive, Binge) Escape into Fantasy Feelings of Guilt Feelings of Persecution (present tense) Hopelessness Housebound Low Self-Esteem Memory Problems (Short Term) Memory Problems (Long Term) Mood Swings Obsessive Thinking Panic Attacks (In Certain Situations) Panic Attacks (Random, Anytime) Recurring Memories of Traumatic Event Self Abuse (Bruising, Cutting, etc.) Suicidal Thoughts Physical Sensations: Headaches Craving for Alcohol Insomnia (Trouble Getting to Sleep) Sleepiness (During Awake Hours) Dizziness or Vertigo Light-headedness Fainting (Actually Passing Out) Temporary Paralysis Easily Startled (Jumpy) Allergies Dry Eyes Watery Eyes Overly Sensitive to Sunlight Visual Disturbances Burning or Pressure Around Eye or Nose Area Overly Sensitive to Odors Sinus Congestion Overly Sensitive to Noise Ringing in Ears Dry Mouth Dehydration (Often Thirsty) Breathing Difficulties (Hyperventilating, etc.) Feeling of Abnormal Heartbeat Chest Pains Appetite Loss Appetite Gain Weight Loss Weight Gain Nausea Intestinal Pains (Irritable Bowel Syndrome) Diarrhea Joint Pain Muscular Pain Muscular Tension Muscular Tics, Twitches, or Spasms Weakness in Arms or Legs Overly Sensitive to The Way Things Feel (Tactile) Uncontrollable Shaking or Trembling Unsteadiness Cold, Clammy Skin Cold Extremities (Hands or Feet) Cold Chills Sweating Hot Flashes Numbness in Arms or Legs "Pins and Needles" Sensation Itching Excema and Rashes Fatigue (Tired, Low Energy) Hyperness (Too Much Energy) Erratic Blood Sugar (Hypoglycemia) Reduced Resistance to Colds or Viruses If you have experience with symptoms not listed here (fears, psychological or physical sensations), please list them below along with a severity from zero to ten. Please rate your experience of each of the following treatments on a scale of -10, …, 0, …, +10. (-10 = very negative reaction to treatment, …, blank or 0 = have not tried or not at all helpful, …, 10 = extremely helpful) Medications and Supplements: Acetaminophen (Tylenol) Atenolol Ativan Buspar Buspirone Clonazepam (Rivotril, Klonopin) Colofac (Mebervine) Desipramine DHEA Effexor (venlafaxine) Fluanxol (Flupenthixol) GABA Gammanil (Lofepramine) GLS Gravol Halcion Haloperidol Herbal Suppliments Ibuprofen (Advil) Imipramine Inderal (Propranalol) Kava Kava L-Tryptophan (Tryptan) Lecithin Lectopam Librium Lorazepam Ludiomil Lustral (Setraline hydrochloride) Luvox (fluvoxamine) Magnesium Oxide Melatonin Modulon Motilium Nardil Nortriptyline (Aventyl) Pantothenic Acid Parlodal (Bromocriptine) Parnate Paxil (Paroxetine, Seroxat) Prothiaden (Dothiepin hydrochloride) Prozac (fluoxetine) Serax Serzone (Nefazodone) Thyroid Hormone Valerian Valium Vitamin B Complex Vitamin B12 Vitamin C Wellbutrin Xanax (Alprazolam) Zantac Zoloft (sertraline) Psychological Therapies: Behavioral Therapy Biofeedback Cognitive Therapy Cognitive Behavioral Therapy Counseling or Social Work Group Therapy Hypnotic Psychotherapy Hypnotic Suggestion Positive Thoughts Psychotherapy (Gestalt or Psychoanalysis) Support Group Other: Acupuncture Adjusting Lifestyle (School, Work, Career) Adjusting Lifestyle (Family) Adjusting Lifestyle (Friends) Adjusting Lifestyle (Romance) Breathing Exercises Chiropractic Confronting Fears Discovering or Expressing True Self Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing (EMDR) Faith, Religion, or Spiritual Pursuits Gardening Physical Exercise Planned or Controlled Diet Playing with Children or Pets Homeopathy Laughter Massage Meditation (Deep Relaxation, Yoga, etc.) Neuro-Linguistic Programming Outdoor Activities Reading Relaxation Training Radionics Therapeutic Touch If you have experience with treatments not listed here (medications, supliments, or any therapy), please list them below along with a rating from -10, …, 0, …, +10.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – OK folks, We now have a working questionnaire. Fill it out if you like Expect a delay in the initial response. The reports I send you back via e-mail will be better once I have entered a number of questionnaires into our database. Also keep in mind that I am processing the questionnaires myself and have human limitations if hundreds of questionnaires come pouring in. But I do plan to send an individualized report to everyone who sends me a completed questionnaire.                            Best Wishes,                            Arthur       A Questionnaire of Symptoms and Treatments            for Anxiety and Panic Disorders Introduction: This is a questionnaire regarding the symptoms and treatments associated with anxiety and panic disorders. If you fill out this questionnaire and send it to confidential database with the responses of others. Based on case by case similarities, a private report will be generated for your specific case which will suggest treatments that other related cases have found helpful. This private report will be sent to you via e-mail so that you and your doctor may explore such treatments at your discretion. There is no fee associated with this service. The only public reports that may be posted in future would regard general observations of the many cases and will not include names or data specific to any one case. Processing of all questionnaires and generation of reports have no professional certification in medicine, psychiatry, or psychology. I am, however, a fellow sufferer of panic disorder and am applying my background in science and computing to help us find relief from chronic anxiety and panic. This effort is driven by the current lack of adequate diagnostics for anxiety and panic disorders. Instructions: If you have ever experienced an anxiety or panic disorder, please fill out this questionnaire. Even if you consider yourself recovered, please fill out this questionnaire as best as you can remember your experiences. Enter your answers to the right of each question or item. Answers do not have to be precise, simply an approximate guess will do. Do not to focus on your worst or last attack, but consider your attacks in general as you answer these questions. When finished, please e-mail (DO NOT POST) your completed completely confidential. General Questions: Please indicate your Sex (M/F).     F At what Age do you believe your anxiety or panic disorder began?     24 How long ago was your last anxiety or panic attack? (five years ago? three months ago? yesterday?)

3 weeks ago Currently, do you feel that your life is being more controlled or less controlled by anxiety or panic attacks? (less/same/more)

less Do you think there is a history of anxiety-panic disorder in your family? (Y/N)

Y The following sentences describe anxiety or panic of different severity. For each sentence, indicate how often you experience such anxiety or panic. 0 = never 1 = several times over several years 2 = several times a year 4 = several times a month 6 = several times a week 8 = several times a day 10 = constantly every day I am nervous, but I can still function.

2 I am very nervous, but I think I can get through the next hour.

4 I am scared, and would like to go home immediately.

2 I am very frightened, and don’t feel comfortable anywhere.

2 I am terrified and feel like I’m about to pass out.

2 I am terrified and feel that I am about to die.

2 I am horrified beyond death-like terror.

2 I am actually "paralyzed" with unimaginable horror.

2 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – During our anxiety or panic disorder, we may experience a variety of symptoms. These symptoms may occur either during or between attacks. Please rate the severity of which you have experienced each of the following symptoms on a scale of zero to ten. (Blank or 0 = not at all, …, 10 = extremely severe) Fears and Phobias: 0 Agoraphobia (a fear of anxiety or panic attacks that often results in a growing avoidance of things or situations) 2 Fear of Being Alone 9 Fear of Being With People 4 Fear of Closed Spaces (Claustrophobia) 4 Fear of Confrontation 0 Fear of Dark Rooms 0 Fear of Diseases (Hypochondria) 4 Fear of Dying 5 Fear of Fear 5 Fear of Food Poisoning or Contamination 4 Fear of God 4 Fear of Going Insane 6 Fear of Heights (Acrophobia) 2 Fear of Help Not Being Available 8 Fear of Humiliation 2 Fear of Living 5 Fear of Open Spaces 0 Fear of Persecution 0 Fear of Public Places 0 Fear of Public Speaking 5 Fear of Responsibility (Performance Anxiety) 5 Fear of Social Diseases (VD, AIDS, etc.) 0 Fear of Social Situations 0 Fear of Snakes 0 Fear of Specific People 0 Fear of Spiders (Arachniphobia) 4 Fear of Standing in Lines 0 Fear of Traveling 5 Psychological Sensations: Anger 0 Anxiety (In Certain Situations) 5 Anxiety (Generalized, Anytime) 4 Anxiety (School, Work, Career) 5 Anxiety (Family) 5 Anxiety (Friends) 0 Anxiety (Romance) 0 Compulsive or Overly Repetitive Behavior 0 Concentration Difficulty 8 Chronic Nightmares 0 Chronic Worrying 4 Crying 3 Depression 0 Derealisation (Feeling of Unreality) 4 Depersonalisation 2 Dissociation 2 Eating Disorder (Bulimia, Anorexia) 8 Eating Disorder (Compulsive, Binge) 0 Escape into Fantasy 10 Feelings of Guilt 5 Feelings of Persecution (present tense) 0 Hopelessness 4 Housebound 0 Low Self-Esteem 7 Memory Problems (Short Term) 9 Memory Problems (Long Term) 9 Mood Swings 7 Obsessive Thinking 9 Panic Attacks (In Certain Situations) 4 Panic Attacks (Random, Anytime) 8 Recurring Memories of Traumatic Event 0 Self Abuse (Bruising, Cutting, etc.) 0 Suicidal Thoughts 0 Physical Sensations: Headaches 10 Craving for Alcohol 0 Insomnia (Trouble Getting to Sleep) 10 Sleepiness (During Awake Hours) 0 Dizziness or Vertigo 5 Light-headedness 4 Fainting (Actually Passing Out) 5 Temporary Paralysis 0 Easily Startled (Jumpy) 5 Allergies 0 Dry Eyes 0 Watery Eyes 0 Overly Sensitive to Sunlight 0 Visual Disturbances 4 Burning or Pressure Around Eye or Nose Area 5 Overly Sensitive to Odors 0 Sinus Congestion 4 Overly Sensitive to Noise 6 Ringing in Ears 10 Dry Mouth 2 Dehydration (Often Thirsty) 0 Breathing Difficulties (Hyperventilating, etc.) 10 Feeling of Abnormal Heartbeat 8 Chest Pains 10 Appetite Loss 10 Appetite Gain 0 Weight Loss 10 Weight Gain 0 Nausea 7 Intestinal Pains (Irritable Bowel Syndrome) 10 Diarrhea 10 Joint Pain 2 Muscular Pain 2 Muscular Tension 9 Muscular Tics, Twitches, or Spasms 0 Weakness in Arms or Legs 5 Overly Sensitive to The Way Things Feel (Tactile) 0 Uncontrollable Shaking or Trembling 5 Unsteadiness 8 Cold, Clammy Skin 9 Cold Extremities (Hands or Feet) 10 Cold Chills 10 Sweating 10 Hot Flashes 5 Numbness in Arms or Legs 10 "Pins and Needles" Sensation 10 Itching 0 Excema and Rashes 0 Fatigue (Tired, Low Energy) 9 Hyperness (Too Much Energy) 10 Erratic Blood Sugar (Hypoglycemia) 6 Reduced Resistance to Colds or Viruses 9 If you have experience with symptoms not listed here (fears, psychological or physical sensations), please list them below along with a severity from zero to ten. Please rate your experience of each of the following treatments on a scale of -10, …, 0, …, +10. (-10 = very negative reaction to treatment, …, blank or 0 = have not tried or not at all helpful, …, 10 = extremely helpful) Medications and Supplements: +10 Acetaminophen (Tylenol) -10 Atenolol 0 Ativan +8 Buspar -10 Buspirone 0 Clonazepam (Rivotril, Klonopin) +10 Colofac (Mebervine) 0 Desipramine -10 DHEA 0 Effexor (venlafaxine) 0 Fluanxol (Flupenthixol) 0 GABA 0 Gammanil (Lofepramine) 0 GLS 0 Gravol +7 Halcion -10 Haloperidol 0 Herbal Suppliments -5 Ibuprofen (Advil) -10 Imipramine -10 Inderal (Propranalol) -10 Kava Kava 0 L-Tryptophan (Tryptan) -5 Lecithin 0 Lectopam -5 Librium -10 Lorazepam +8 Ludiomil 0 Lustral (Setraline hydrochloride) 0 Luvox (fluvoxamine) -10 Magnesium Oxide 0 Melatonin 0 Modulon 0 Motilium 0 Nardil -10 Nortriptyline (Aventyl) -10 Pantothenic Acid 0 Parlodal (Bromocriptine) 0 Parnate 0 Paxil (Paroxetine, Seroxat) -10 Prothiaden (Dothiepin hydrochloride) 0 Prozac (fluoxetine) -10 Serax -10 Serzone (Nefazodone) 0 Thyroid Hormone 0 Valerian 0 Valium +6 Vitamin B Complex +1 Vitamin B12 +5 Vitamin C +1 Wellbutrin 0 Xanax (Alprazolam) +1 Zantac +1 Zoloft (sertraline) 0 Psychological Therapies: Behavioral Therapy +10 Biofeedback 0 Cognitive Therapy +10 Cognitive Behavioral Therapy +10 Counseling or Social Work -2 Group Therapy +10 Hypnotic Psychotherapy 0 Hypnotic Suggestion 0 Positive Thoughts +8 Psychotherapy (Gestalt or Psychoanalysis) 0 Support Group +10 Other: Acupuncture 0 Adjusting Lifestyle (School, Work, Career) +5 Adjusting Lifestyle (Family) +5 Adjusting Lifestyle (Friends) +5 Adjusting Lifestyle (Romance) +8 Breathing Exercises +5 Chiropractic 0 Confronting Fears +8 Discovering or Expressing True Self +10 Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing (EMDR) 0 Faith, Religion, or Spiritual Pursuits 0 Gardening 0 Physical Exercise 0 Planned or Controlled Diet +5 Playing with Children or

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