Question:
Jack and Lorna You were both spot on with your diagnosis I went to my doctor yesterday and he confirmed I had Thrush, he also put me back on Pulmicot and Bricanyl with instructions to return in two weeks when I should have stabalised and he will then reconsider upping my dosage or possibly introducing another pump to go with the others. Thanks again Alan
Response:
The word is "thursh" an’ I sure as hell got it when I first started Pulmicort. Before then I had got away with not rinsing after the other steroids. Now I normally rinse a n d gargle twice religiously after each use. BTW switching from Pulmicort to Beclofort comparable to switching from gin to beer. It jus’ won’t get it. Hope you use a soft cloth surgical mask in the shop.—jack
Response:
Hi everyone I have been reading this NG for some weeks now and have recently experienced a change in my asthma. I am 56 years old and had asthma for 15 years I work in a workshop where there is often dust from polishing motors and chemicals which are used for various processes. As this is my business and I cannot avoid it although I do my best to minimise the effects .
Inhaling metal dust and chemicals can cause many different kinds of lung disease, not just asthma. Well I needed to consult my doctor a week or so ago as my asthma symptoms were causing me more problems than usual ( tight chest and coughing wheezing which refused to get better) I explained to the doctor that I always have a cough and was wondering if perhaps I should consider a change of pumps. At the time I was on Pulmicort and Brycanel she examined my chest and said it was clear but said my blow test showed my asthma was worse than normal and agreed to try me on Salamol instead of Brycanel she also prescribed anti histamine tablets.
Pulmicort is one of the best steroid inhalers; Becloforte is an older weaker one. Antihistamines only help if you have allergies; sounds like your problem may be related to the chemicals and metal dust at work. You may need to improve the air quality at work; chemical fume hoods, air cleaner, masks, ventilation, etc. These tablets gave me many of the side effects mentioned in the instruction sheet so I stopped taking them after three days. Shortly after I was sent to an asthma clinic for a further check-up and the nurse suggested replacing the Pulmicort with Becloforte now since taking these two new pumps I have suffered a sore throat, headache and a feeling of being generally run down to such an extent that I have had to take to my bed for two days. This is most unlike me. I have today decided to returned to my Pulmicort hoping this will rid me of my sore throat and was wondering if any of this strikes a cord with anyone else. Regards Alan UK
You may benefit by a full workup from a chest doctor, including Pulmonary Function Tests and a chest x-ray. You might have ‘walking pneumonia’ or other lung disease, along with the asthma. Ellis
Response:
Hi everyone I have been reading this NG for some weeks now and have recently experienced a change in my asthma. I am 56 years old and had asthma for 15 years I work in a workshop where there is often dust from polishing motors and chemicals which are used for various processes. As this is my business and I cannot avoid it although I do my best to minimise the effects . Well I needed to consult my doctor a week or so ago as my asthma symptoms were causing me more problems than usual ( tight chest and coughing wheezing which refused to get better) I explained to the doctor that I always have a cough and was wondering if perhaps I should consider a change of pumps. At the time I was on Pulmicort and Brycanel she examined my chest and said it was clear but said my blow test showed my asthma was worse than normal and agreed to try me on Salamol instead of Brycanel she also prescribed anti histamine tablets. These tablets gave me many of the side effects mentioned in the instruction sheet so I stopped taking them after three days. Shortly after I was sent to an asthma clinic for a further check-up and the nurse suggested replacing the Pulmicort with Becloforte now since taking these two new pumps I have suffered a sore throat, headache and a feeling of being generally run down to such an extent that I have had to take to my bed for two days. This is most unlike me. I have today decided to returned to my Pulmicort hoping this will rid me of my sore throat and was wondering if any of this strikes a cord with anyone else. Regards Alan UK
Response:
Pulmicourt, once taken, you need to gargle and rinse out your mouth and throat, it can be the cause of your sore throat, it is a steroid and unless you do this, it can cause something called "thrust" so my Dr. says give this a try and see if it helps.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi everyone I have been reading this NG for some weeks now and have recently experienced a change in my asthma. I am 56 years old and had asthma for 15 years I work in a workshop where there is often dust from polishing motors and chemicals which are used for various processes. As this is my business and I cannot avoid it although I do my best to minimise the effects . Well I needed to consult my doctor a week or so ago as my asthma symptoms were causing me more problems than usual ( tight chest and coughing wheezing which refused to get better) I explained to the doctor that I always have a cough and was wondering if perhaps I should consider a change of pumps. At the time I was on Pulmicort and Brycanel she examined my chest and said it was clear but said my blow test showed my asthma was worse than normal and agreed to try me on Salamol instead of Brycanel she also prescribed anti histamine tablets. These tablets gave me many of the side effects mentioned in the instruction sheet so I stopped taking them after three days. Shortly after I was sent to an asthma clinic for a further check-up and the nurse suggested replacing the Pulmicort with Becloforte now since taking these two new pumps I have suffered a sore throat, headache and a feeling of being generally run down to such an extent that I have had to take to my bed for two days. This is most unlike me. I have today decided to returned to my Pulmicort hoping this will rid me of my sore throat and was wondering if any of this strikes a cord with anyone else. Regards Alan UK
Response:
I have a 2500 gallon pond, 3 months old, with a Cal 1200 pump. It just doesn’t do the job and I want to upgrade it to make my waterfall more substantial. The pump I choose needs to have an inline connection for the in-pond filter (yes, it’s crummy but it was not my design!). I want something that is cheap to run and, yes, cheap to buy. I was considering the Cal 2700 but would appreciate any advice or recommendations. Thanks, Gary
Response:
Hi Gary, I am not familiar with Cal pumps since I was advised years ago to stay away from them. I used Little Giant pumps in the past and found that I never had clear water. If water quality and clear water is your goal you should considered using an outside pump and filter system. There will be people on this NG that will disagree but this is my opinion having used both. Outside filters are allot easier to maintain and outside pumps are really cheap to run 24/7. You may be able to pick up a used pump real cheap. see my filter setup at, good luck. http://sites.netscape.net/guppyusa/homepage – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a 2500 gallon pond, 3 months old, with a Cal 1200 pump. It just doesn’t do the job and I want to upgrade it to make my waterfall more substantial. The pump I choose needs to have an inline connection for the in-pond filter (yes, it’s crummy but it was not my design!). I want something that is cheap to run and, yes, cheap to buy. I was considering the Cal 2700 but would appreciate any advice or recommendations. Thanks, Gary
Response:
I was considering the Cal 2700 but would appreciate any advice or recommendations.
Cal S2700 draws 3.8 amps at 2680 gph at 1 foot head, and costs $280. http://www.calpump.com/prod03.htm Sequence 1000 K3H1.111 draws 1.7 amps at 2590 gph at 4.4 foot head, and costs $375. http://members.aol.com/mdmpumps/pumpspecs.html Operating costs at average US electrical rates ($0.086/ kwh) are $344 and $154 per year for full time use, respectively. (Of course, the waterfall doesn’t have to be run full time; a smaller pump would suffice for filtration and aeration.) This is just an example to illustrate that efficiency is more important than purchase price. In this case, the more expensive pump pays for itself in 6 months operation, and may last longer as well. There are many other brands besides these two. – Rod
Response:
– Hi Gary., I would like to get in on this pump debate. I do not think it is fair to say one specific pump is better than another one. The answer to your question I think is to do your research on pumps before buying one. The pumps can be divided into at least three groups. Submersible (sealed), submersible (magnetic drive) and in line such as a pool pump. The magnetic drive is very inexpensive on power consumption but the trade off is a much lower head or less gallons delivered at higher heights. On the plus side the magnetic driven pump has replaceable parts that the sealed submersible doesn’t have. The in line pump sitting up out of the pond has many advantages that submersible pumps do not have. Some of the options they offer are , offering the ability to draw water off of the bottom of the pond via a bottom drain, definitely more gallonage per hour at very low power consumption.,as low as .88 amps for 1200 gallons per hour.The thing you want to look at first is how much water do you have to move? A small waterfall for example requires 50-60 gallons for every 1 inch wide. so for a waterfall 6 inches wide you would require 300 gallons per hour. If your pond is under 1000 gallons and you have a small filter sitting out of the pond as part of your watercourse you can check the magnetically driven pumps and they will have a chart describing the gallons pumped at each foot of rise.I think you will find that if you can incorporate a submerged pump that in time you will | Roger Pinette | Ponds Beautiful (604) 534-9133 | http://www.pondsbeautiful.com
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Gary, I am not familiar with Cal pumps since I was advised years ago to stay away from them. I used Little Giant pumps in the past and found that I never had clear water. If water quality and clear water is your goal you should considered using an outside pump and filter system. There will be people on this NG that will disagree but this is my opinion having used both. Outside filters are allot easier to maintain and outside pumps are really cheap to run 24/7. You may be able to pick up a used pump real cheap. see my filter setup at, good luck. http://sites.netscape.net/guppyusa/homepage I have a 2500 gallon pond, 3 months old, with a Cal 1200 pump. It just doesn’t do the job and I want to upgrade it to make my waterfall more substantial. The pump I choose needs to have an inline connection for the in-pond filter (yes, it’s crummy but it was not my design!). I want something that is cheap to run and, yes, cheap to buy. I was considering the Cal 2700 but would appreciate any advice or recommendations. Thanks, Gary
Response:
Thanks Rogeer for a lot of good info. I’d like to mention for discussion my experience with pumps so far. In our two ponds that we got when we moved, each had a Little Giant submersible pump. Both eventually started leaking coolant and had to be replaced. They lasted only about 13 months (good work, as they are guaranteed for only a year!). One more lasted about the same. So, I replaced it with an above-ground pool pump with skimmer and filter, and that has done yeoman service, plugging away for two years now with no problem. It cost only a little more than the Little Giant even with skimmer and filter. The dealers I talked with all said those submersible pumps are not designed to work full time without going belly up after about a year. Any others had similar experiences? | NOTE: If you want to e-mail a reply, please strip | | off the letters "OOPS" from my address. | | (Spam preventer) | – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text — Hi Gary., I would like to get in on this pump debate. I do not think it is fair to say one specific pump is better than another one. The answer to your question I think is to do your research on pumps before buying one. The pumps can be divided into at least three groups. Submersible (sealed), submersible (magnetic drive) and in line such as a pool pump. The magnetic drive is very inexpensive on power consumption but the trade off is a much lower head or less gallons delivered at higher heights. On the plus side the magnetic driven pump has replaceable parts that the sealed submersible doesn’t have. The in line pump sitting up out of the pond has many advantages that submersible pumps do not have. Some of the options they offer are , offering the ability to draw water off of the bottom of the pond via a bottom drain, definitely more gallonage per hour at very low power consumption.,as low as .88 amps for 1200 gallons per hour.The thing you want to look at first is how much water do you have to move? A small waterfall for example requires 50-60 gallons for every 1 inch wide. so for a waterfall 6 inches wide you would require 300 gallons per hour. If your pond is under 1000 gallons and you have a small filter sitting out of the pond as part of your watercourse you can check the magnetically driven pumps and they will have a chart describing the gallons pumped at each foot of rise.I think you will find that if you can incorporate a submerged pump that in time you will | Roger Pinette | Ponds Beautiful (604) 534-9133 | http://www.pondsbeautiful.com Hi Gary, I am not familiar with Cal pumps since I was advised years ago to stay away from them. I used Little Giant pumps in the past and found that I never had clear water. If water quality and clear water is your goal you should considered using an outside pump and filter system. There will be people on this NG that will disagree but this is my opinion having used both. Outside filters are allot easier to maintain and outside pumps are really cheap to run 24/7. You may be able to pick up a used pump real cheap. see my filter setup at, good luck. http://sites.netscape.net/guppyusa/homepage I have a 2500 gallon pond, 3 months old, with a Cal 1200 pump. It just doesn’t do the job and I want to upgrade it to make my waterfall more substantial. The pump I choose needs to have an inline connection for the in-pond filter (yes, it’s crummy but it was not my design!). I want something that is cheap to run and, yes, cheap to buy. I was considering the Cal 2700 but would appreciate any advice or recommendations. Thanks, Gary
–
Response:
— Hi Gary., I would like to get in on this pump debate. I do not think it is fair to say one specific pump is better than another one. The answer to your question I think is to do your research on pumps before buying one. The pumps can be divided into at least three groups. Submersible (sealed), submersible (magnetic drive) and in line such as a pool pump. The magnetic drive is very inexpensive on power consumption but the trade off is a much lower head or less gallons delivered at higher heights. On the plus side the magnetic driven pump has replaceable parts that the sealed submersible doesn’t have. The in line pump sitting up out of the pond has many advantages that submersible pumps do not have. Some of the options they offer are , offering the ability to draw water off of the bottom of the pond via a bottom drain,
Depending on how the filter is designed, all pumps mentioned above can draw water off the bottom. I have a Beckett submersible in a gravity-fed filter using the Tetra vacuum bottom drain. ~ jan See my ponds thru the seasons: http://jjspond.home.att.net/ ~Keep ‘em Wet!~ Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a To e-mail see website – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -definitely more gallonage per hour at very low power consumption.,as low as .88 amps for 1200 gallons per hour.The thing you want to look at first is how much water do you have to move? A small waterfall for example requires 50-60 gallons for every 1 inch wide. so for a waterfall 6 inches wide you would require 300 gallons per hour. If your pond is under 1000 gallons and you have a small filter sitting out of the pond as part of your watercourse you can check the magnetically driven pumps and they will have a chart describing the gallons pumped at each foot of rise.I think you will find that if you can incorporate a submerged pump that in time you will | Roger Pinette | Ponds Beautiful (604) 534-9133 | http://www.pondsbeautiful.com Hi Gary, I am not familiar with Cal pumps since I was advised years ago to stay away from them. I used Little Giant pumps in the past and found that I never had clear water. If water quality and clear water is your goal you should considered using an outside pump and filter system. There will be people on this NG that will disagree but this is my opinion having used both. Outside filters are allot easier to maintain and outside pumps are really cheap to run 24/7. You may be able to pick up a used pump real cheap. see my filter setup at, good luck. http://sites.netscape.net/guppyusa/homepage I have a 2500 gallon pond, 3 months old, with a Cal 1200 pump. It just doesn’t do the job and I want to upgrade it to make my waterfall more substantial. The pump I choose needs to have an inline connection for the in-pond filter (yes, it’s crummy but it was not my design!). I want something that is cheap to run and, yes, cheap to buy. I was considering the Cal 2700 but would appreciate any advice or recommendations. Thanks, Gary
Response:
Hi Rennie, Welcome Back… It’s great to have you back here where you belong. Between that awful Flu and your server you’ve been absent for some time …. Glad your doctors and your server got it all together … A hearty Welcome to Roger! You know what that means Roger? Bottom line: You are Porg!! You will be assimilated. All efforts to become disentangled will be useless (or something like that ;o) Nedra / Missouri / Zone 6 — Nedra’s Ponds: www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836/
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — Hi Gary., I would like to get in on this pump debate. I do not think it is fair to say one specific pump is better than another one. The answer to your question I think is to do your research on pumps before buying one. The pumps can be divided into at least three groups. Submersible (sealed), submersible (magnetic drive) and in line such as a pool pump. The magnetic drive is very inexpensive on power consumption but the trade off is a much lower head or less gallons delivered at higher heights. On the plus side the magnetic driven pump has replaceable parts that the sealed submersible doesn’t have. The in line pump sitting up out of the pond has many advantages that submersible pumps do not have. Some of the options they offer are , offering the ability to draw water off of the bottom of the pond via a bottom drain, definitely more gallonage per hour at very low power consumption.,as low as .88 amps for 1200 gallons per hour.The thing you want to look at first is how much water do you have to move? A small waterfall for example requires 50-60 gallons for every 1 inch wide. so for a waterfall 6 inches wide you would require 300 gallons per hour. If your pond is under 1000 gallons and you have a small filter sitting out of the pond as part of your watercourse you can check the magnetically driven pumps and they will have a chart describing the gallons pumped at each foot of rise.I think you will find that if you can incorporate a submerged pump that in time you will | Roger Pinette | Ponds Beautiful (604) 534-9133 | http://www.pondsbeautiful.com Roger, welcome to the newsgroup. I’m sure all of us in rec.ponds will benefit from your many years of watergardening and Koi expertise… To the regulars in the NG, this is the gentleman that dropped everything he was doing the day of the vandalism to my pond and rushed out to be of assistance trying to get everything working again. Thank you again Roger for all your help….. Rennie in Abbotsford PS…ISP finally finished system re-build and put rec.ponds back on newsserver…nice to be back……
Response:
PS…ISP finally finished system re-build and put rec.ponds back on newsserver…nice to be back……
Rennie, welcome back, almost had to send the lily fairies after you. Unfortunately many seem to be AWOL from rec.ponds. Time to hit the books & magazines and get more pond related topics going. ;o) ~ jan
Response:
My 300 GPH Little Giant lasted 4 years. I don’t remember the model number but it cost about $60 at Home Depot. I replaced it with the same model and expect to get 4 years from the new one also, It runs 24/7 year round. — Larry Wasserman Baltimore, Maryland
Response:
A small waterfall for example requires 50-60 gallons for every 1 inch wide. so for a waterfall 6 inches wide you would require 300 gallons per hour.
That seems quite low… don’t most sources recommend about 100 gph per inch of sill width? – Rod
Response:
On the plus side the magnetic driven pump has replaceable parts that the sealed submersible doesn’t have.
Are we talking about the same things here? Most people saying ‘magnetic driven’ are talking strictly about Danner’s Supreme Mag-Drive. iirc, that’s an epoxy sealed unit that has about 3 replaceable parts. My ’sealed’ submersible has dozens of replacable parts – including the seals. — Derek (www.netcom.ca/~dbrought/pond) rec.ponds FAQ http://w3.one.net/~rzutt/faq.html You can’t jail a free man, the best you can do is kill him. – Heinlein
Response:
I have a 2500 gallon pond, 3 months old, with a Cal 1200 pump. It just doesn’t do the job and I want to upgrade it to make my waterfall more substantial. The pump I choose needs to have an inline connection for the in-pond filter (yes, it’s crummy but it was not my design!). I want something that is cheap to run and, yes, cheap to buy. I was considering the Cal 2700 but would appreciate any advice or recommendations. Thanks, Gary
Response:
Hi Gary, I am not familiar with Cal pumps since I was advised years ago to stay away from them. I used Little Giant pumps in the past and found that I never had clear water. If water quality and clear water is your goal you should considered using an outside pump and filter system. There will be people on this NG that will disagree but this is my opinion having used both. Outside filters are allot easier to maintain and outside pumps are really cheap to run 24/7. You may be able to pick up a used pump real cheap. see my filter setup at, good luck. http://sites.netscape.net/guppyusa/homepage – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a 2500 gallon pond, 3 months old, with a Cal 1200 pump. It just doesn’t do the job and I want to upgrade it to make my waterfall more substantial. The pump I choose needs to have an inline connection for the in-pond filter (yes, it’s crummy but it was not my design!). I want something that is cheap to run and, yes, cheap to buy. I was considering the Cal 2700 but would appreciate any advice or recommendations. Thanks, Gary
Response:
I was considering the Cal 2700 but would appreciate any advice or recommendations.
Cal S2700 draws 3.8 amps at 2680 gph at 1 foot head, and costs $280. http://www.calpump.com/prod03.htm Sequence 1000 K3H1.111 draws 1.7 amps at 2590 gph at 4.4 foot head, and costs $375. http://members.aol.com/mdmpumps/pumpspecs.html Operating costs at average US electrical rates ($0.086/ kwh) are $344 and $154 per year for full time use, respectively. (Of course, the waterfall doesn’t have to be run full time; a smaller pump would suffice for filtration and aeration.) This is just an example to illustrate that efficiency is more important than purchase price. In this case, the more expensive pump pays for itself in 6 months operation, and may last longer as well. There are many other brands besides these two. – Rod
Response:
– Hi Gary., I would like to get in on this pump debate. I do not think it is fair to say one specific pump is better than another one. The answer to your question I think is to do your research on pumps before buying one. The pumps can be divided into at least three groups. Submersible (sealed), submersible (magnetic drive) and in line such as a pool pump. The magnetic drive is very inexpensive on power consumption but the trade off is a much lower head or less gallons delivered at higher heights. On the plus side the magnetic driven pump has replaceable parts that the sealed submersible doesn’t have. The in line pump sitting up out of the pond has many advantages that submersible pumps do not have. Some of the options they offer are , offering the ability to draw water off of the bottom of the pond via a bottom drain, definitely more gallonage per hour at very low power consumption.,as low as .88 amps for 1200 gallons per hour.The thing you want to look at first is how much water do you have to move? A small waterfall for example requires 50-60 gallons for every 1 inch wide. so for a waterfall 6 inches wide you would require 300 gallons per hour. If your pond is under 1000 gallons and you have a small filter sitting out of the pond as part of your watercourse you can check the magnetically driven pumps and they will have a chart describing the gallons pumped at each foot of rise.I think you will find that if you can incorporate a submerged pump that in time you will | Roger Pinette | Ponds Beautiful (604) 534-9133 | http://www.pondsbeautiful.com
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Gary, I am not familiar with Cal pumps since I was advised years ago to stay away from them. I used Little Giant pumps in the past and found that I never had clear water. If water quality and clear water is your goal you should considered using an outside pump and filter system. There will be people on this NG that will disagree but this is my opinion having used both. Outside filters are allot easier to maintain and outside pumps are really cheap to run 24/7. You may be able to pick up a used pump real cheap. see my filter setup at, good luck. http://sites.netscape.net/guppyusa/homepage I have a 2500 gallon pond, 3 months old, with a Cal 1200 pump. It just doesn’t do the job and I want to upgrade it to make my waterfall more substantial. The pump I choose needs to have an inline connection for the in-pond filter (yes, it’s crummy but it was not my design!). I want something that is cheap to run and, yes, cheap to buy. I was considering the Cal 2700 but would appreciate any advice or recommendations. Thanks, Gary
Response:
Thanks Rogeer for a lot of good info. I’d like to mention for discussion my experience with pumps so far. In our two ponds that we got when we moved, each had a Little Giant submersible pump. Both eventually started leaking coolant and had to be replaced. They lasted only about 13 months (good work, as they are guaranteed for only a year!). One more lasted about the same. So, I replaced it with an above-ground pool pump with skimmer and filter, and that has done yeoman service, plugging away for two years now with no problem. It cost only a little more than the Little Giant even with skimmer and filter. The dealers I talked with all said those submersible pumps are not designed to work full time without going belly up after about a year. Any others had similar experiences? | NOTE: If you want to e-mail a reply, please strip | | off the letters "OOPS" from my address. | | (Spam preventer) | – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text — Hi Gary., I would like to get in on this pump debate. I do not think it is fair to say one specific pump is better than another one. The answer to your question I think is to do your research on pumps before buying one. The pumps can be divided into at least three groups. Submersible (sealed), submersible (magnetic drive) and in line such as a pool pump. The magnetic drive is very inexpensive on power consumption but the trade off is a much lower head or less gallons delivered at higher heights. On the plus side the magnetic driven pump has replaceable parts that the sealed submersible doesn’t have. The in line pump sitting up out of the pond has many advantages that submersible pumps do not have. Some of the options they offer are , offering the ability to draw water off of the bottom of the pond via a bottom drain, definitely more gallonage per hour at very low power consumption.,as low as .88 amps for 1200 gallons per hour.The thing you want to look at first is how much water do you have to move? A small waterfall for example requires 50-60 gallons for every 1 inch wide. so for a waterfall 6 inches wide you would require 300 gallons per hour. If your pond is under 1000 gallons and you have a small filter sitting out of the pond as part of your watercourse you can check the magnetically driven pumps and they will have a chart describing the gallons pumped at each foot of rise.I think you will find that if you can incorporate a submerged pump that in time you will | Roger Pinette | Ponds Beautiful (604) 534-9133 | http://www.pondsbeautiful.com Hi Gary, I am not familiar with Cal pumps since I was advised years ago to stay away from them. I used Little Giant pumps in the past and found that I never had clear water. If water quality and clear water is your goal you should considered using an outside pump and filter system. There will be people on this NG that will disagree but this is my opinion having used both. Outside filters are allot easier to maintain and outside pumps are really cheap to run 24/7. You may be able to pick up a used pump real cheap. see my filter setup at, good luck. http://sites.netscape.net/guppyusa/homepage I have a 2500 gallon pond, 3 months old, with a Cal 1200 pump. It just doesn’t do the job and I want to upgrade it to make my waterfall more substantial. The pump I choose needs to have an inline connection for the in-pond filter (yes, it’s crummy but it was not my design!). I want something that is cheap to run and, yes, cheap to buy. I was considering the Cal 2700 but would appreciate any advice or recommendations. Thanks, Gary
–
Response:
— Hi Gary., I would like to get in on this pump debate. I do not think it is fair to say one specific pump is better than another one. The answer to your question I think is to do your research on pumps before buying one. The pumps can be divided into at least three groups. Submersible (sealed), submersible (magnetic drive) and in line such as a pool pump. The magnetic drive is very inexpensive on power consumption but the trade off is a much lower head or less gallons delivered at higher heights. On the plus side the magnetic driven pump has replaceable parts that the sealed submersible doesn’t have. The in line pump sitting up out of the pond has many advantages that submersible pumps do not have. Some of the options they offer are , offering the ability to draw water off of the bottom of the pond via a bottom drain,
Depending on how the filter is designed, all pumps mentioned above can draw water off the bottom. I have a Beckett submersible in a gravity-fed filter using the Tetra vacuum bottom drain. ~ jan See my ponds thru the seasons: http://jjspond.home.att.net/ ~Keep ‘em Wet!~ Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a To e-mail see website – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -definitely more gallonage per hour at very low power consumption.,as low as .88 amps for 1200 gallons per hour.The thing you want to look at first is how much water do you have to move? A small waterfall for example requires 50-60 gallons for every 1 inch wide. so for a waterfall 6 inches wide you would require 300 gallons per hour. If your pond is under 1000 gallons and you have a small filter sitting out of the pond as part of your watercourse you can check the magnetically driven pumps and they will have a chart describing the gallons pumped at each foot of rise.I think you will find that if you can incorporate a submerged pump that in time you will | Roger Pinette | Ponds Beautiful (604) 534-9133 | http://www.pondsbeautiful.com Hi Gary, I am not familiar with Cal pumps since I was advised years ago to stay away from them. I used Little Giant pumps in the past and found that I never had clear water. If water quality and clear water is your goal you should considered using an outside pump and filter system. There will be people on this NG that will disagree but this is my opinion having used both. Outside filters are allot easier to maintain and outside pumps are really cheap to run 24/7. You may be able to pick up a used pump real cheap. see my filter setup at, good luck. http://sites.netscape.net/guppyusa/homepage I have a 2500 gallon pond, 3 months old, with a Cal 1200 pump. It just doesn’t do the job and I want to upgrade it to make my waterfall more substantial. The pump I choose needs to have an inline connection for the in-pond filter (yes, it’s crummy but it was not my design!). I want something that is cheap to run and, yes, cheap to buy. I was considering the Cal 2700 but would appreciate any advice or recommendations. Thanks, Gary
Response:
Hi Rennie, Welcome Back… It’s great to have you back here where you belong. Between that awful Flu and your server you’ve been absent for some time …. Glad your doctors and your server got it all together … A hearty Welcome to Roger! You know what that means Roger? Bottom line: You are Porg!! You will be assimilated. All efforts to become disentangled will be useless (or something like that ;o) Nedra / Missouri / Zone 6 — Nedra’s Ponds: www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836/
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — Hi Gary., I would like to get in on this pump debate. I do not think it is fair to say one specific pump is better than another one. The answer to your question I think is to do your research on pumps before buying one. The pumps can be divided into at least three groups. Submersible (sealed), submersible (magnetic drive) and in line such as a pool pump. The magnetic drive is very inexpensive on power consumption but the trade off is a much lower head or less gallons delivered at higher heights. On the plus side the magnetic driven pump has replaceable parts that the sealed submersible doesn’t have. The in line pump sitting up out of the pond has many advantages that submersible pumps do not have. Some of the options they offer are , offering the ability to draw water off of the bottom of the pond via a bottom drain, definitely more gallonage per hour at very low power consumption.,as low as .88 amps for 1200 gallons per hour.The thing you want to look at first is how much water do you have to move? A small waterfall for example requires 50-60 gallons for every 1 inch wide. so for a waterfall 6 inches wide you would require 300 gallons per hour. If your pond is under 1000 gallons and you have a small filter sitting out of the pond as part of your watercourse you can check the magnetically driven pumps and they will have a chart describing the gallons pumped at each foot of rise.I think you will find that if you can incorporate a submerged pump that in time you will | Roger Pinette | Ponds Beautiful (604) 534-9133 | http://www.pondsbeautiful.com Roger, welcome to the newsgroup. I’m sure all of us in rec.ponds will benefit from your many years of watergardening and Koi expertise… To the regulars in the NG, this is the gentleman that dropped everything he was doing the day of the vandalism to my pond and rushed out to be of assistance trying to get everything working again. Thank you again Roger for all your help….. Rennie in Abbotsford PS…ISP finally finished system re-build and put rec.ponds back on newsserver…nice to be back……
Response:
PS…ISP finally finished system re-build and put rec.ponds back on newsserver…nice to be back……
Rennie, welcome back, almost had to send the lily fairies after you. Unfortunately many seem to be AWOL from rec.ponds. Time to hit the books & magazines and get more pond related topics going. ;o) ~ jan
Response:
My 300 GPH Little Giant lasted 4 years. I don’t remember the model number but it cost about $60 at Home Depot. I replaced it with the same model and expect to get 4 years from the new one also, It runs 24/7 year round. — Larry Wasserman Baltimore, Maryland
Response:
A small waterfall for example requires 50-60 gallons for every 1 inch wide. so for a waterfall 6 inches wide you would require 300 gallons per hour.
That seems quite low… don’t most sources recommend about 100 gph per inch of sill width? – Rod
Response:
On the plus side the magnetic driven pump has replaceable parts that the sealed submersible doesn’t have.
Are we talking about the same things here? Most people saying ‘magnetic driven’ are talking strictly about Danner’s Supreme Mag-Drive. iirc, that’s an epoxy sealed unit that has about 3 replaceable parts. My ’sealed’ submersible has dozens of replacable parts – including the seals. — Derek (www.netcom.ca/~dbrought/pond) rec.ponds FAQ http://w3.one.net/~rzutt/faq.html You can’t jail a free man, the best you can do is kill him. – Heinlein
Response:
I have a 2500 gallon pond, 3 months old, with a Cal 1200 pump. It just doesn’t do the job and I want to upgrade it to make my waterfall more substantial. The pump I choose needs to have an inline connection for the in-pond filter (yes, it’s crummy but it was not my design!). I want something that is cheap to run and, yes, cheap to buy. I was considering the Cal 2700 but would appreciate any advice or recommendations. Thanks, Gary
Response:
Hi Gary, I am not familiar with Cal pumps since I was advised years ago to stay away from them. I used Little Giant pumps in the past and found that I never had clear water. If water quality and clear water is your goal you should considered using an outside pump and filter system. There will be people on this NG that will disagree but this is my opinion having used both. Outside filters are allot easier to maintain and outside pumps are really cheap to run 24/7. You may be able to pick up a used pump real cheap. see my filter setup at, good luck. http://sites.netscape.net/guppyusa/homepage – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a 2500 gallon pond, 3 months old, with a Cal 1200 pump. It just doesn’t do the job and I want to upgrade it to make my waterfall more substantial. The pump I choose needs to have an inline connection for the in-pond filter (yes, it’s crummy but it was not my design!). I want something that is cheap to run and, yes, cheap to buy. I was considering the Cal 2700 but would appreciate any advice or recommendations. Thanks, Gary
Response:
I was considering the Cal 2700 but would appreciate any advice or recommendations.
Cal S2700 draws 3.8 amps at 2680 gph at 1 foot head, and costs $280. http://www.calpump.com/prod03.htm Sequence 1000 K3H1.111 draws 1.7 amps at 2590 gph at 4.4 foot head, and costs $375. http://members.aol.com/mdmpumps/pumpspecs.html Operating costs at average US electrical rates ($0.086/ kwh) are $344 and $154 per year for full time use, respectively. (Of course, the waterfall doesn’t have to be run full time; a smaller pump would suffice for filtration and aeration.) This is just an example to illustrate that efficiency is more important than purchase price. In this case, the more expensive pump pays for itself in 6 months operation, and may last longer as well. There are many other brands besides these two. – Rod
Response:
– Hi Gary., I would like to get in on this pump debate. I do not think it is fair to say one specific pump is better than another one. The answer to your question I think is to do your research on pumps before buying one. The pumps can be divided into at least three groups. Submersible (sealed), submersible (magnetic drive) and in line such as a pool pump. The magnetic drive is very inexpensive on power consumption but the trade off is a much lower head or less gallons delivered at higher heights. On the plus side the magnetic driven pump has replaceable parts that the sealed submersible doesn’t have. The in line pump sitting up out of the pond has many advantages that submersible pumps do not have. Some of the options they offer are , offering the ability to draw water off of the bottom of the pond via a bottom drain, definitely more gallonage per hour at very low power consumption.,as low as .88 amps for 1200 gallons per hour.The thing you want to look at first is how much water do you have to move? A small waterfall for example requires 50-60 gallons for every 1 inch wide. so for a waterfall 6 inches wide you would require 300 gallons per hour. If your pond is under 1000 gallons and you have a small filter sitting out of the pond as part of your watercourse you can check the magnetically driven pumps and they will have a chart describing the gallons pumped at each foot of rise.I think you will find that if you can incorporate a submerged pump that in time you will | Roger Pinette | Ponds Beautiful (604) 534-9133 | http://www.pondsbeautiful.com
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Gary, I am not familiar with Cal pumps since I was advised years ago to stay away from them. I used Little Giant pumps in the past and found that I never had clear water. If water quality and clear water is your goal you should considered using an outside pump and filter system. There will be people on this NG that will disagree but this is my opinion having used both. Outside filters are allot easier to maintain and outside pumps are really cheap to run 24/7. You may be able to pick up a used pump real cheap. see my filter setup at, good luck. http://sites.netscape.net/guppyusa/homepage I have a 2500 gallon pond, 3 months old, with a Cal 1200 pump. It just doesn’t do the job and I want to upgrade it to make my waterfall more substantial. The pump I choose needs to have an inline connection for the in-pond filter (yes, it’s crummy but it was not my design!). I want something that is cheap to run and, yes, cheap to buy. I was considering the Cal 2700 but would appreciate any advice or recommendations. Thanks, Gary
Response:
Thanks Rogeer for a lot of good info. I’d like to mention for discussion my experience with pumps so far. In our two ponds that we got when we moved, each had a Little Giant submersible pump. Both eventually started leaking coolant and had to be replaced. They lasted only about 13 months (good work, as they are guaranteed for only a year!). One more lasted about the same. So, I replaced it with an above-ground pool pump with skimmer and filter, and that has done yeoman service, plugging away for two years now with no problem. It cost only a little more than the Little Giant even with skimmer and filter. The dealers I talked with all said those submersible pumps are not designed to work full time without going belly up after about a year. Any others had similar experiences? | NOTE: If you want to e-mail a reply, please strip | | off the letters "OOPS" from my address. | | (Spam preventer) | – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text — Hi Gary., I would like to get in on this pump debate. I do not think it is fair to say one specific pump is better than another one. The answer to your question I think is to do your research on pumps before buying one. The pumps can be divided into at least three groups. Submersible (sealed), submersible (magnetic drive) and in line such as a pool pump. The magnetic drive is very inexpensive on power consumption but the trade off is a much lower head or less gallons delivered at higher heights. On the plus side the magnetic driven pump has replaceable parts that the sealed submersible doesn’t have. The in line pump sitting up out of the pond has many advantages that submersible pumps do not have. Some of the options they offer are , offering the ability to draw water off of the bottom of the pond via a bottom drain, definitely more gallonage per hour at very low power consumption.,as low as .88 amps for 1200 gallons per hour.The thing you want to look at first is how much water do you have to move? A small waterfall for example requires 50-60 gallons for every 1 inch wide. so for a waterfall 6 inches wide you would require 300 gallons per hour. If your pond is under 1000 gallons and you have a small filter sitting out of the pond as part of your watercourse you can check the magnetically driven pumps and they will have a chart describing the gallons pumped at each foot of rise.I think you will find that if you can incorporate a submerged pump that in time you will | Roger Pinette | Ponds Beautiful (604) 534-9133 | http://www.pondsbeautiful.com Hi Gary, I am not familiar with Cal pumps since I was advised years ago to stay away from them. I used Little Giant pumps in the past and found that I never had clear water. If water quality and clear water is your goal you should considered using an outside pump and filter system. There will be people on this NG that will disagree but this is my opinion having used both. Outside filters are allot easier to maintain and outside pumps are really cheap to run 24/7. You may be able to pick up a used pump real cheap. see my filter setup at, good luck. http://sites.netscape.net/guppyusa/homepage I have a 2500 gallon pond, 3 months old, with a Cal 1200 pump. It just doesn’t do the job and I want to upgrade it to make my waterfall more substantial. The pump I choose needs to have an inline connection for the in-pond filter (yes, it’s crummy but it was not my design!). I want something that is cheap to run and, yes, cheap to buy. I was considering the Cal 2700 but would appreciate any advice or recommendations. Thanks, Gary
–
Response:
— Hi Gary., I would like to get in on this pump debate. I do not think it is fair to say one specific pump is better than another one. The answer to your question I think is to do your research on pumps before buying one. The pumps can be divided into at least three groups. Submersible (sealed), submersible (magnetic drive) and in line such as a pool pump. The magnetic drive is very inexpensive on power consumption but the trade off is a much lower head or less gallons delivered at higher heights. On the plus side the magnetic driven pump has replaceable parts that the sealed submersible doesn’t have. The in line pump sitting up out of the pond has many advantages that submersible pumps do not have. Some of the options they offer are , offering the ability to draw water off of the bottom of the pond via a bottom drain,
Depending on how the filter is designed, all pumps mentioned above can draw water off the bottom. I have a Beckett submersible in a gravity-fed filter using the Tetra vacuum bottom drain. ~ jan See my ponds thru the seasons: http://jjspond.home.att.net/ ~Keep ‘em Wet!~ Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a To e-mail see website – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -definitely more gallonage per hour at very low power consumption.,as low as .88 amps for 1200 gallons per hour.The thing you want to look at first is how much water do you have to move? A small waterfall for example requires 50-60 gallons for every 1 inch wide. so for a waterfall 6 inches wide you would require 300 gallons per hour. If your pond is under 1000 gallons and you have a small filter sitting out of the pond as part of your watercourse you can check the magnetically driven pumps and they will have a chart describing the gallons pumped at each foot of rise.I think you will find that if you can incorporate a submerged pump that in time you will | Roger Pinette | Ponds Beautiful (604) 534-9133 | http://www.pondsbeautiful.com Hi Gary, I am not familiar with Cal pumps since I was advised years ago to stay away from them. I used Little Giant pumps in the past and found that I never had clear water. If water quality and clear water is your goal you should considered using an outside pump and filter system. There will be people on this NG that will disagree but this is my opinion having used both. Outside filters are allot easier to maintain and outside pumps are really cheap to run 24/7. You may be able to pick up a used pump real cheap. see my filter setup at, good luck. http://sites.netscape.net/guppyusa/homepage I have a 2500 gallon pond, 3 months old, with a Cal 1200 pump. It just doesn’t do the job and I want to upgrade it to make my waterfall more substantial. The pump I choose needs to have an inline connection for the in-pond filter (yes, it’s crummy but it was not my design!). I want something that is cheap to run and, yes, cheap to buy. I was considering the Cal 2700 but would appreciate any advice or recommendations. Thanks, Gary
Response:
Hi Rennie, Welcome Back… It’s great to have you back here where you belong. Between that awful Flu and your server you’ve been absent for some time …. Glad your doctors and your server got it all together … A hearty Welcome to Roger! You know what that means Roger? Bottom line: You are Porg!! You will be assimilated. All efforts to become disentangled will be useless (or something like that ;o) Nedra / Missouri / Zone 6 — Nedra’s Ponds: www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836/
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — Hi Gary., I would like to get in on this pump debate. I do not think it is fair to say one specific pump is better than another one. The answer to your question I think is to do your research on pumps before buying one. The pumps can be divided into at least three groups. Submersible (sealed), submersible (magnetic drive) and in line such as a pool pump. The magnetic drive is very inexpensive on power consumption but the trade off is a much lower head or less gallons delivered at higher heights. On the plus side the magnetic driven pump has replaceable parts that the sealed submersible doesn’t have. The in line pump sitting up out of the pond has many advantages that submersible pumps do not have. Some of the options they offer are , offering the ability to draw water off of the bottom of the pond via a bottom drain, definitely more gallonage per hour at very low power consumption.,as low as .88 amps for 1200 gallons per hour.The thing you want to look at first is how much water do you have to move? A small waterfall for example requires 50-60 gallons for every 1 inch wide. so for a waterfall 6 inches wide you would require 300 gallons per hour. If your pond is under 1000 gallons and you have a small filter sitting out of the pond as part of your watercourse you can check the magnetically driven pumps and they will have a chart describing the gallons pumped at each foot of rise.I think you will find that if you can incorporate a submerged pump that in time you will | Roger Pinette | Ponds Beautiful (604) 534-9133 | http://www.pondsbeautiful.com Roger, welcome to the newsgroup. I’m sure all of us in rec.ponds will benefit from your many years of watergardening and Koi expertise… To the regulars in the NG, this is the gentleman that dropped everything he was doing the day of the vandalism to my pond and rushed out to be of assistance trying to get everything working again. Thank you again Roger for all your help….. Rennie in Abbotsford PS…ISP finally finished system re-build and put rec.ponds back on newsserver…nice to be back……
Response:
PS…ISP finally finished system re-build and put rec.ponds back on newsserver…nice to be back……
Rennie, welcome back, almost had to send the lily fairies after you. Unfortunately many seem to be AWOL from rec.ponds. Time to hit the books & magazines and get more pond related topics going. ;o) ~ jan
Response:
My 300 GPH Little Giant lasted 4 years. I don’t remember the model number but it cost about $60 at Home Depot. I replaced it with the same model and expect to get 4 years from the new one also, It runs 24/7 year round. — Larry Wasserman Baltimore, Maryland
Response:
A small waterfall for example requires 50-60 gallons for every 1 inch wide. so for a waterfall 6 inches wide you would require 300 gallons per hour.
That seems quite low… don’t most sources recommend about 100 gph per inch of sill width? – Rod
Response:
On the plus side the magnetic driven pump has replaceable parts that the sealed submersible doesn’t have.
Are we talking about the same things here? Most people saying ‘magnetic driven’ are talking strictly about Danner’s Supreme Mag-Drive. iirc, that’s an epoxy sealed unit that has about 3 replaceable parts. My ’sealed’ submersible has dozens of replacable parts – including the seals. — Derek (www.netcom.ca/~dbrought/pond) rec.ponds FAQ http://w3.one.net/~rzutt/faq.html You can’t jail a free man, the best you can do is kill him. – Heinlein
Response:
I have a 2500 gallon pond, 3 months old, with a Cal 1200 pump. It just doesn’t do the job and I want to upgrade it to make my waterfall more substantial. The pump I choose needs to have an inline connection for the in-pond filter (yes, it’s crummy but it was not my design!). I want something that is cheap to run and, yes, cheap to buy. I was considering the Cal 2700 but would appreciate any advice or recommendations. Thanks, Gary
Response:
Hi Gary, I am not familiar with Cal pumps since I was advised years ago to stay away from them. I used Little Giant pumps in the past and found that I never had clear water. If water quality and clear water is your goal you should considered using an outside pump and filter system. There will be people on this NG that will disagree but this is my opinion having used both. Outside filters are allot easier to maintain and outside pumps are really cheap to run 24/7. You may be able to pick up a used pump real cheap. see my filter setup at, good luck. http://sites.netscape.net/guppyusa/homepage – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a 2500 gallon pond, 3 months old, with a Cal 1200 pump. It just doesn’t do the job and I want to upgrade it to make my waterfall more substantial. The pump I choose needs to have an inline connection for the in-pond filter (yes, it’s crummy but it was not my design!). I want something that is cheap to run and, yes, cheap to buy. I was considering the Cal 2700 but would appreciate any advice or recommendations. Thanks, Gary
Response:
I was considering the Cal 2700 but would appreciate any advice or recommendations.
Cal S2700 draws 3.8 amps at 2680 gph at 1 foot head, and costs $280. http://www.calpump.com/prod03.htm Sequence 1000 K3H1.111 draws 1.7 amps at 2590 gph at 4.4 foot head, and costs $375. http://members.aol.com/mdmpumps/pumpspecs.html Operating costs at average US electrical rates ($0.086/ kwh) are $344 and $154 per year for full time use, respectively. (Of course, the waterfall doesn’t have to be run full time; a smaller pump would suffice for filtration and aeration.) This is just an example to illustrate that efficiency is more important than purchase price. In this case, the more expensive pump pays for itself in 6 months operation, and may last longer as well. There are many other brands besides these two. – Rod
Response:
– Hi Gary., I would like to get in on this pump debate. I do not think it is fair to say one specific pump is better than another one. The answer to your question I think is to do your research on pumps before buying one. The pumps can be divided into at least three groups. Submersible (sealed), submersible (magnetic drive) and in line such as a pool pump. The magnetic drive is very inexpensive on power consumption but the trade off is a much lower head or less gallons delivered at higher heights. On the plus side the magnetic driven pump has replaceable parts that the sealed submersible doesn’t have. The in line pump sitting up out of the pond has many advantages that submersible pumps do not have. Some of the options they offer are , offering the ability to draw water off of the bottom of the pond via a bottom drain, definitely more gallonage per hour at very low power consumption.,as low as .88 amps for 1200 gallons per hour.The thing you want to look at first is how much water do you have to move? A small waterfall for example requires 50-60 gallons for every 1 inch wide. so for a waterfall 6 inches wide you would require 300 gallons per hour. If your pond is under 1000 gallons and you have a small filter sitting out of the pond as part of your watercourse you can check the magnetically driven pumps and they will have a chart describing the gallons pumped at each foot of rise.I think you will find that if you can incorporate a submerged pump that in time you will | Roger Pinette | Ponds Beautiful (604) 534-9133 | http://www.pondsbeautiful.com
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Gary, I am not familiar with Cal pumps since I was advised years ago to stay away from them. I used Little Giant pumps in the past and found that I never had clear water. If water quality and clear water is your goal you should considered using an outside pump and filter system. There will be people on this NG that will disagree but this is my opinion having used both. Outside filters are allot easier to maintain and outside pumps are really cheap to run 24/7. You may be able to pick up a used pump real cheap. see my filter setup at, good luck. http://sites.netscape.net/guppyusa/homepage I have a 2500 gallon pond, 3 months old, with a Cal 1200 pump. It just doesn’t do the job and I want to upgrade it to make my waterfall more substantial. The pump I choose needs to have an inline connection for the in-pond filter (yes, it’s crummy but it was not my design!). I want something that is cheap to run and, yes, cheap to buy. I was considering the Cal 2700 but would appreciate any advice or recommendations. Thanks, Gary
Response:
Thanks Rogeer for a lot of good info. I’d like to mention for discussion my experience with pumps so far. In our two ponds that we got when we moved, each had a Little Giant submersible pump. Both eventually started leaking coolant and had to be replaced. They lasted only about 13 months (good work, as they are guaranteed for only a year!). One more lasted about the same. So, I replaced it with an above-ground pool pump with skimmer and filter, and that has done yeoman service, plugging away for two years now with no problem. It cost only a little more than the Little Giant even with skimmer and filter. The dealers I talked with all said those submersible pumps are not designed to work full time without going belly up after about a year. Any others had similar experiences? | NOTE: If you want to e-mail a reply, please strip | | off the letters "OOPS" from my address. | | (Spam preventer) | – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text — Hi Gary., I would like to get in on this pump debate. I do not think it is fair to say one specific pump is better than another one. The answer to your question I think is to do your research on pumps before buying one. The pumps can be divided into at least three groups. Submersible (sealed), submersible (magnetic drive) and in line such as a pool pump. The magnetic drive is very inexpensive on power consumption but the trade off is a much lower head or less gallons delivered at higher heights. On the plus side the magnetic driven pump has replaceable parts that the sealed submersible doesn’t have. The in line pump sitting up out of the pond has many advantages that submersible pumps do not have. Some of the options they offer are , offering the ability to draw water off of the bottom of the pond via a bottom drain, definitely more gallonage per hour at very low power consumption.,as low as .88 amps for 1200 gallons per hour.The thing you want to look at first is how much water do you have to move? A small waterfall for example requires 50-60 gallons for every 1 inch wide. so for a waterfall 6 inches wide you would require 300 gallons per hour. If your pond is under 1000 gallons and you have a small filter sitting out of the pond as part of your watercourse you can check the magnetically driven pumps and they will have a chart describing the gallons pumped at each foot of rise.I think you will find that if you can incorporate a submerged pump that in time you will | Roger Pinette | Ponds Beautiful (604) 534-9133 | http://www.pondsbeautiful.com Hi Gary, I am not familiar with Cal pumps since I was advised years ago to stay away from them. I used Little Giant pumps in the past and found that I never had clear water. If water quality and clear water is your goal you should considered using an outside pump and filter system. There will be people on this NG that will disagree but this is my opinion having used both. Outside filters are allot easier to maintain and outside pumps are really cheap to run 24/7. You may be able to pick up a used pump real cheap. see my filter setup at, good luck. http://sites.netscape.net/guppyusa/homepage I have a 2500 gallon pond, 3 months old, with a Cal 1200 pump. It just doesn’t do the job and I want to upgrade it to make my waterfall more substantial. The pump I choose needs to have an inline connection for the in-pond filter (yes, it’s crummy but it was not my design!). I want something that is cheap to run and, yes, cheap to buy. I was considering the Cal 2700 but would appreciate any advice or recommendations. Thanks, Gary
–
Response:
— Hi Gary., I would like to get in on this pump debate. I do not think it is fair to say one specific pump is better than another one. The answer to your question I think is to do your research on pumps before buying one. The pumps can be divided into at least three groups. Submersible (sealed), submersible (magnetic drive) and in line such as a pool pump. The magnetic drive is very inexpensive on power consumption but the trade off is a much lower head or less gallons delivered at higher heights. On the plus side the magnetic driven pump has replaceable parts that the sealed submersible doesn’t have. The in line pump sitting up out of the pond has many advantages that submersible pumps do not have. Some of the options they offer are , offering the ability to draw water off of the bottom of the pond via a bottom drain,
Depending on how the filter is designed, all pumps mentioned above can draw water off the bottom. I have a Beckett submersible in a gravity-fed filter using the Tetra vacuum bottom drain. ~ jan See my ponds thru the seasons: http://jjspond.home.att.net/ ~Keep ‘em Wet!~ Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a To e-mail see website – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -definitely more gallonage per hour at very low power consumption.,as low as .88 amps for 1200 gallons per hour.The thing you want to look at first is how much water do you have to move? A small waterfall for example requires 50-60 gallons for every 1 inch wide. so for a waterfall 6 inches wide you would require 300 gallons per hour. If your pond is under 1000 gallons and you have a small filter sitting out of the pond as part of your watercourse you can check the magnetically driven pumps and they will have a chart describing the gallons pumped at each foot of rise.I think you will find that if you can incorporate a submerged pump that in time you will | Roger Pinette | Ponds Beautiful (604) 534-9133 | http://www.pondsbeautiful.com Hi Gary, I am not familiar with Cal pumps since I was advised years ago to stay away from them. I used Little Giant pumps in the past and found that I never had clear water. If water quality and clear water is your goal you should considered using an outside pump and filter system. There will be people on this NG that will disagree but this is my opinion having used both. Outside filters are allot easier to maintain and outside pumps are really cheap to run 24/7. You may be able to pick up a used pump real cheap. see my filter setup at, good luck. http://sites.netscape.net/guppyusa/homepage I have a 2500 gallon pond, 3 months old, with a Cal 1200 pump. It just doesn’t do the job and I want to upgrade it to make my waterfall more substantial. The pump I choose needs to have an inline connection for the in-pond filter (yes, it’s crummy but it was not my design!). I want something that is cheap to run and, yes, cheap to buy. I was considering the Cal 2700 but would appreciate any advice or recommendations. Thanks, Gary
Response:
Hi Rennie, Welcome Back… It’s great to have you back here where you belong. Between that awful Flu and your server you’ve been absent for some time …. Glad your doctors and your server got it all together … A hearty Welcome to Roger! You know what that means Roger? Bottom line: You are Porg!! You will be assimilated. All efforts to become disentangled will be useless (or something like that ;o) Nedra / Missouri / Zone 6 — Nedra’s Ponds: www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836/
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — Hi Gary., I would like to get in on this pump debate. I do not think it is fair to say one specific pump is better than another one. The answer to your question I think is to do your research on pumps before buying one. The pumps can be divided into at least three groups. Submersible (sealed), submersible (magnetic drive) and in line such as a pool pump. The magnetic drive is very inexpensive on power consumption but the trade off is a much lower head or less gallons delivered at higher heights. On the plus side the magnetic driven pump has replaceable parts that the sealed submersible doesn’t have. The in line pump sitting up out of the pond has many advantages that submersible pumps do not have. Some of the options they offer are , offering the ability to draw water off of the bottom of the pond via a bottom drain, definitely more gallonage per hour at very low power consumption.,as low as .88 amps for 1200 gallons per hour.The thing you want to look at first is how much water do you have to move? A small waterfall for example requires 50-60 gallons for every 1 inch wide. so for a waterfall 6 inches wide you would require 300 gallons per hour. If your pond is under 1000 gallons and you have a small filter sitting out of the pond as part of your watercourse you can check the magnetically driven pumps and they will have a chart describing the gallons pumped at each foot of rise.I think you will find that if you can incorporate a submerged pump that in time you will | Roger Pinette | Ponds Beautiful (604) 534-9133 | http://www.pondsbeautiful.com Roger, welcome to the newsgroup. I’m sure all of us in rec.ponds will benefit from your many years of watergardening and Koi expertise… To the regulars in the NG, this is the gentleman that dropped everything he was doing the day of the vandalism to my pond and rushed out to be of assistance trying to get everything working again. Thank you again Roger for all your help….. Rennie in Abbotsford PS…ISP finally finished system re-build and put rec.ponds back on newsserver…nice to be back……
Response:
PS…ISP finally finished system re-build and put rec.ponds back on newsserver…nice to be back……
Rennie, welcome back, almost had to send the lily fairies after you. Unfortunately many seem to be AWOL from rec.ponds. Time to hit the books & magazines and get more pond related topics going. ;o) ~ jan
Response:
My 300 GPH Little Giant lasted 4 years. I don’t remember the model number but it cost about $60 at Home Depot. I replaced it with the same model and expect to get 4 years from the new one also, It runs 24/7 year round. — Larry Wasserman Baltimore, Maryland
Response:
A small waterfall for example requires 50-60 gallons for every 1 inch wide. so for a waterfall 6 inches wide you would require 300 gallons per hour.
That seems quite low… don’t most sources recommend about 100 gph per inch of sill width? – Rod
Response:
On the plus side the magnetic driven pump has replaceable parts that the sealed submersible doesn’t have.
Are we talking about the same things here? Most people saying ‘magnetic driven’ are talking strictly about Danner’s Supreme Mag-Drive. iirc, that’s an epoxy sealed unit that has about 3 replaceable parts. My ’sealed’ submersible has dozens of replacable parts – including the seals. — Derek (www.netcom.ca/~dbrought/pond) rec.ponds FAQ http://w3.one.net/~rzutt/faq.html You can’t jail a free man, the best you can do is kill him. – Heinlein
Response:
I have a 2500 gallon pond, 3 months old, with a Cal 1200 pump. It just doesn’t do the job and I want to upgrade it to make my waterfall more substantial. The pump I choose needs to have an inline connection for the in-pond filter (yes, it’s crummy but it was not my design!). I want something that is cheap to run and, yes, cheap to buy. I was considering the Cal 2700 but would appreciate any advice or recommendations. Thanks, Gary
Response:
Hi Gary, I am not familiar with Cal pumps since I was advised years ago to stay away from them. I used Little Giant pumps in the past and found that I never had clear water. If water quality and clear water is your goal you should considered using an outside pump and filter system. There will be people on this NG that will disagree but this is my opinion having used both. Outside filters are allot easier to maintain and outside pumps are really cheap to run 24/7. You may be able to pick up a used pump real cheap. see my filter setup at, good luck. http://sites.netscape.net/guppyusa/homepage – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a 2500 gallon pond, 3 months old, with a Cal 1200 pump. It just doesn’t do the job and I want to upgrade it to make my waterfall more substantial. The pump I choose needs to have an inline connection for the in-pond filter (yes, it’s crummy but it was not my design!). I want something that is cheap to run and, yes, cheap to buy. I was considering the Cal 2700 but would appreciate any advice or recommendations. Thanks, Gary
Response:
I was considering the Cal 2700 but would appreciate any advice or recommendations.
Cal S2700 draws 3.8 amps at 2680 gph at 1 foot head, and costs $280. http://www.calpump.com/prod03.htm Sequence 1000 K3H1.111 draws 1.7 amps at 2590 gph at 4.4 foot head, and costs $375. http://members.aol.com/mdmpumps/pumpspecs.html Operating costs at average US electrical rates ($0.086/ kwh) are $344 and $154 per year for full time use, respectively. (Of course, the waterfall doesn’t have to be run full time; a smaller pump would suffice for filtration and aeration.) This is just an example to illustrate that efficiency is more important than purchase price. In this case, the more expensive pump pays for itself in 6 months operation, and may last longer as well. There are many other brands besides these two. – Rod
Response:
– Hi Gary., I would like to get in on this pump debate. I do not think it is fair to say one specific pump is better than another one. The answer to your question I think is to do your research on pumps before buying one. The pumps can be divided into at least three groups. Submersible (sealed), submersible (magnetic drive) and in line such as a pool pump. The magnetic drive is very inexpensive on power consumption but the trade off is a much lower head or less gallons delivered at higher heights. On the plus side the magnetic driven pump has replaceable parts that the sealed submersible doesn’t have. The in line pump sitting up out of the pond has many advantages that submersible pumps do not have. Some of the options they offer are , offering the ability to draw water off of the bottom of the pond via a bottom drain, definitely more gallonage per hour at very low power consumption.,as low as .88 amps for 1200 gallons per hour.The thing you want to look at first is how much water do you have to move? A small waterfall for example requires 50-60 gallons for every 1 inch wide. so for a waterfall 6 inches wide you would require 300 gallons per hour. If your pond is under 1000 gallons and you have a small filter sitting out of the pond as part of your watercourse you can check the magnetically driven pumps and they will have a chart describing the gallons pumped at each foot of rise.I think you will find that if you can incorporate a submerged pump that in time you will | Roger Pinette | Ponds Beautiful (604) 534-9133 | http://www.pondsbeautiful.com
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Gary, I am not familiar with Cal pumps since I was advised years ago to stay away from them. I used Little Giant pumps in the past and found that I never had clear water. If water quality and clear water is your goal you should considered using an outside pump and filter system. There will be people on this NG that will disagree but this is my opinion having used both. Outside filters are allot easier to maintain and outside pumps are really cheap to run 24/7. You may be able to pick up a used pump real cheap. see my filter setup at, good luck. http://sites.netscape.net/guppyusa/homepage I have a 2500 gallon pond, 3 months old, with a Cal 1200 pump. It just doesn’t do the job and I want to upgrade it to make my waterfall more substantial. The pump I choose needs to have an inline connection for the in-pond filter (yes, it’s crummy but it was not my design!). I want something that is cheap to run and, yes, cheap to buy. I was considering the Cal 2700 but would appreciate any advice or recommendations. Thanks, Gary
Response:
Thanks Rogeer for a lot of good info. I’d like to mention for discussion my experience with pumps so far. In our two ponds that we got when we moved, each had a Little Giant submersible pump. Both eventually started leaking coolant and had to be replaced. They lasted only about 13 months (good work, as they are guaranteed for only a year!). One more lasted about the same. So, I replaced it with an above-ground pool pump with skimmer and filter, and that has done yeoman service, plugging away for two years now with no problem. It cost only a little more than the Little Giant even with skimmer and filter. The dealers I talked with all said those submersible pumps are not designed to work full time without going belly up after about a year. Any others had similar experiences? | NOTE: If you want to e-mail a reply, please strip | | off the letters "OOPS" from my address. | | (Spam preventer) | – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text — Hi Gary., I would like to get in on this pump debate. I do not think it is fair to say one specific pump is better than another one. The answer to your question I think is to do your research on pumps before buying one. The pumps can be divided into at least three groups. Submersible (sealed), submersible (magnetic drive) and in line such as a pool pump. The magnetic drive is very inexpensive on power consumption but the trade off is a much lower head or less gallons delivered at higher heights. On the plus side the magnetic driven pump has replaceable parts that the sealed submersible doesn’t have. The in line pump sitting up out of the pond has many advantages that submersible pumps do not have. Some of the options they offer are , offering the ability to draw water off of the bottom of the pond via a bottom drain, definitely more gallonage per hour at very low power consumption.,as low as .88 amps for 1200 gallons per hour.The thing you want to look at first is how much water do you have to move? A small waterfall for example requires 50-60 gallons for every 1 inch wide. so for a waterfall 6 inches wide you would require 300 gallons per hour. If your pond is under 1000 gallons and you have a small filter sitting out of the pond as part of your watercourse you can check the magnetically driven pumps and they will have a chart describing the gallons pumped at each foot of rise.I think you will find that if you can incorporate a submerged pump that in time you will | Roger Pinette | Ponds Beautiful (604) 534-9133 | http://www.pondsbeautiful.com Hi Gary, I am not familiar with Cal pumps since I was advised years ago to stay away from them. I used Little Giant pumps in the past and found that I never had clear water. If water quality and clear water is your goal you should considered using an outside pump and filter system. There will be people on this NG that will disagree but this is my opinion having used both. Outside filters are allot easier to maintain and outside pumps are really cheap to run 24/7. You may be able to pick up a used pump real cheap. see my filter setup at, good luck. http://sites.netscape.net/guppyusa/homepage I have a 2500 gallon pond, 3 months old, with a Cal 1200 pump. It just doesn’t do the job and I want to upgrade it to make my waterfall more substantial. The pump I choose needs to have an inline connection for the in-pond filter (yes, it’s crummy but it was not my design!). I want something that is cheap to run and, yes, cheap to buy. I was considering the Cal 2700 but would appreciate any advice or recommendations. Thanks, Gary
–
Response:
— Hi Gary., I would like to get in on this pump debate. I do not think it is fair to say one specific pump is better than another one. The answer to your question I think is to do your research on pumps before buying one. The pumps can be divided into at least three groups. Submersible (sealed), submersible (magnetic drive) and in line such as a pool pump. The magnetic drive is very inexpensive on power consumption but the trade off is a much lower head or less gallons delivered at higher heights. On the plus side the magnetic driven pump has replaceable parts that the sealed submersible doesn’t have. The in line pump sitting up out of the pond has many advantages that submersible pumps do not have. Some of the options they offer are , offering the ability to draw water off of the bottom of the pond via a bottom drain,
Depending on how the filter is designed, all pumps mentioned above can draw water off the bottom. I have a Beckett submersible in a gravity-fed filter using the Tetra vacuum bottom drain. ~ jan See my ponds thru the seasons: http://jjspond.home.att.net/ ~Keep ‘em Wet!~ Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a To e-mail see website – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -definitely more gallonage per hour at very low power consumption.,as low as .88 amps for 1200 gallons per hour.The thing you want to look at first is how much water do you have to move? A small waterfall for example requires 50-60 gallons for every 1 inch wide. so for a waterfall 6 inches wide you would require 300 gallons per hour. If your pond is under 1000 gallons and you have a small filter sitting out of the pond as part of your watercourse you can check the magnetically driven pumps and they will have a chart describing the gallons pumped at each foot of rise.I think you will find that if you can incorporate a submerged pump that in time you will | Roger Pinette | Ponds Beautiful (604) 534-9133 | http://www.pondsbeautiful.com Hi Gary, I am not familiar with Cal pumps since I was advised years ago to stay away from them. I used Little Giant pumps in the past and found that I never had clear water. If water quality and clear water is your goal you should considered using an outside pump and filter system. There will be people on this NG that will disagree but this is my opinion having used both. Outside filters are allot easier to maintain and outside pumps are really cheap to run 24/7. You may be able to pick up a used pump real cheap. see my filter setup at, good luck. http://sites.netscape.net/guppyusa/homepage I have a 2500 gallon pond, 3 months old, with a Cal 1200 pump. It just doesn’t do the job and I want to upgrade it to make my waterfall more substantial. The pump I choose needs to have an inline connection for the in-pond filter (yes, it’s crummy but it was not my design!). I want something that is cheap to run and, yes, cheap to buy. I was considering the Cal 2700 but would appreciate any advice or recommendations. Thanks, Gary
Response:
Hi Rennie, Welcome Back… It’s great to have you back here where you belong. Between that awful Flu and your server you’ve been absent for some time …. Glad your doctors and your server got it all together … A hearty Welcome to Roger! You know what that means Roger? Bottom line: You are Porg!! You will be assimilated. All efforts to become disentangled will be useless (or something like that ;o) Nedra / Missouri / Zone 6 — Nedra’s Ponds: www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836/
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — Hi Gary., I would like to get in on this pump debate. I do not think it is fair to say one specific pump is better than another one. The answer to your question I think is to do your research on pumps before buying one. The pumps can be divided into at least three groups. Submersible (sealed), submersible (magnetic drive) and in line such as a pool pump. The magnetic drive is very inexpensive on power consumption but the trade off is a much lower head or less gallons delivered at higher heights. On the plus side the magnetic driven pump has replaceable parts that the sealed submersible doesn’t have. The in line pump sitting up out of the pond has many advantages that submersible pumps do not have. Some of the options they offer are , offering the ability to draw water off of the bottom of the pond via a bottom drain, definitely more gallonage per hour at very low power consumption.,as low as .88 amps for 1200 gallons per hour.The thing you want to look at first is how much water do you have to move? A small waterfall for example requires 50-60 gallons for every 1 inch wide. so for a waterfall 6 inches wide you would require 300 gallons per hour. If your pond is under 1000 gallons and you have a small filter sitting out of the pond as part of your watercourse you can check the magnetically driven pumps and they will have a chart describing the gallons pumped at each foot of rise.I think you will find that if you can incorporate a submerged pump that in time you will | Roger Pinette | Ponds Beautiful (604) 534-9133 | http://www.pondsbeautiful.com Roger, welcome to the newsgroup. I’m sure all of us in rec.ponds will benefit from your many years of watergardening and Koi expertise… To the regulars in the NG, this is the gentleman that dropped everything he was doing the day of the vandalism to my pond and rushed out to be of assistance trying to get everything working again. Thank you again Roger for all your help….. Rennie in Abbotsford PS…ISP finally finished system re-build and put rec.ponds back on newsserver…nice to be back……
Response:
PS…ISP finally finished system re-build and put rec.ponds back on newsserver…nice to be back……
Rennie, welcome back, almost had to send the lily fairies after you. Unfortunately many seem to be AWOL from rec.ponds. Time to hit the books & magazines and get more pond related topics going. ;o) ~ jan
Response:
My 300 GPH Little Giant lasted 4 years. I don’t remember the model number but it cost about $60 at Home Depot. I replaced it with the same model and expect to get 4 years from the new one also, It runs 24/7 year round. — Larry Wasserman Baltimore, Maryland
Response:
A small waterfall for example requires 50-60 gallons for every 1 inch wide. so for a waterfall 6 inches wide you would require 300 gallons per hour.
That seems quite low… don’t most sources recommend about 100 gph per inch of sill width? – Rod
Response:
On the plus side the magnetic driven pump has replaceable parts that the sealed submersible doesn’t have.
Are we talking about the same things here? Most people saying ‘magnetic driven’ are talking strictly about Danner’s Supreme Mag-Drive. iirc, that’s an epoxy sealed unit that has about 3 replaceable parts. My ’sealed’ submersible has dozens of replacable parts – including the seals. — Derek (www.netcom.ca/~dbrought/pond) rec.ponds FAQ http://w3.one.net/~rzutt/faq.html You can’t jail a free man, the best you can do is kill him. – Heinlein
Response:
I have a 2500 gallon pond, 3 months old, with a Cal 1200 pump. It just doesn’t do the job and I want to upgrade it to make my waterfall more substantial. The pump I choose needs to have an inline connection for the in-pond filter (yes, it’s crummy but it was not my design!). I want something that is cheap to run and, yes, cheap to buy. I was considering the Cal 2700 but would appreciate any advice or recommendations. Thanks, Gary
Response:
Hi Gary, I am not familiar with Cal pumps since I was advised years ago to stay away from them. I used Little Giant pumps in the past and found that I never had clear water. If water quality and clear water is your goal you should considered using an outside pump and filter system. There will be people on this NG that will disagree but this is my opinion having used both. Outside filters are allot easier to maintain and outside pumps are really cheap to run 24/7. You may be able to pick up a used pump real cheap. see my filter setup at, good luck. http://sites.netscape.net/guppyusa/homepage – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a 2500 gallon pond, 3 months old, with a Cal 1200 pump. It just doesn’t do the job and I want to upgrade it to make my waterfall more substantial. The pump I choose needs to have an inline connection for the in-pond filter (yes, it’s crummy but it was not my design!). I want something that is cheap to run and, yes, cheap to buy. I was considering the Cal 2700 but would appreciate any advice or recommendations. Thanks, Gary
Response:
I was considering the Cal 2700 but would appreciate any advice or recommendations.
Cal S2700 draws 3.8 amps at 2680 gph at 1 foot head, and costs $280. http://www.calpump.com/prod03.htm Sequence 1000 K3H1.111 draws 1.7 amps at 2590 gph at 4.4 foot head, and costs $375. http://members.aol.com/mdmpumps/pumpspecs.html Operating costs at average US electrical rates ($0.086/ kwh) are $344 and $154 per year for full time use, respectively. (Of course, the waterfall doesn’t have to be run full time; a smaller pump would suffice for filtration and aeration.) This is just an example to illustrate that efficiency is more important than purchase price. In this case, the more expensive pump pays for itself in 6 months operation, and may last longer as well. There are many other brands besides these two. – Rod
Response:
– Hi Gary., I would like to get in on this pump debate. I do not think it is fair to say one specific pump is better than another one. The answer to your question I think is to do your research on pumps before buying one. The pumps can be divided into at least three groups. Submersible (sealed), submersible (magnetic drive) and in line such as a pool pump. The magnetic drive is very inexpensive on power consumption but the trade off is a much lower head or less gallons delivered at higher heights. On the plus side the magnetic driven pump has replaceable parts that the sealed submersible doesn’t have. The in line pump sitting up out of the pond has many advantages that submersible pumps do not have. Some of the options they offer are , offering the ability to draw water off of the bottom of the pond via a bottom drain, definitely more gallonage per hour at very low power consumption.,as low as .88 amps for 1200 gallons per hour.The thing you want to look at first is how much water do you have to move? A small waterfall for example requires 50-60 gallons for every 1 inch wide. so for a waterfall 6 inches wide you would require 300 gallons per hour. If your pond is under 1000 gallons and you have a small filter sitting out of the pond as part of your watercourse you can check the magnetically driven pumps and they will have a chart describing the gallons pumped at each foot of rise.I think you will find that if you can incorporate a submerged pump that in time you will | Roger Pinette | Ponds Beautiful (604) 534-9133 | http://www.pondsbeautiful.com
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Gary, I am not familiar with Cal pumps since I was advised years ago to stay away from them. I used Little Giant pumps in the past and found that I never had clear water. If water quality and clear water is your goal you should considered using an outside pump and filter system. There will be people on this NG that will disagree but this is my opinion having used both. Outside filters are allot easier to maintain and outside pumps are really cheap to run 24/7. You may be able to pick up a used pump real cheap. see my filter setup at, good luck. http://sites.netscape.net/guppyusa/homepage I have a 2500 gallon pond, 3 months old, with a Cal 1200 pump. It just doesn’t do the job and I want to upgrade it to make my waterfall more substantial. The pump I choose needs to have an inline connection for the in-pond filter (yes, it’s crummy but it was not my design!). I want something that is cheap to run and, yes, cheap to buy. I was considering the Cal 2700 but would appreciate any advice or recommendations. Thanks, Gary
Response:
Thanks Rogeer for a lot of good info. I’d like to mention for discussion my experience with pumps so far. In our two ponds that we got when we moved, each had a Little Giant submersible pump. Both eventually started leaking coolant and had to be replaced. They lasted only about 13 months (good work, as they are guaranteed for only a year!). One more lasted about the same. So, I replaced it with an above-ground pool pump with skimmer and filter, and that has done yeoman service, plugging away for two years now with no problem. It cost only a little more than the Little Giant even with skimmer and filter. The dealers I talked with all said those submersible pumps are not designed to work full time without going belly up after about a year. Any others had similar experiences? | NOTE: If you want to e-mail a reply, please strip | | off the letters "OOPS" from my address. | | (Spam preventer) | – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text — Hi Gary., I would like to get in on this pump debate. I do not think it is fair to say one specific pump is better than another one. The answer to your question I think is to do your research on pumps before buying one. The pumps can be divided into at least three groups. Submersible (sealed), submersible (magnetic drive) and in line such as a pool pump. The magnetic drive is very inexpensive on power consumption but the trade off is a much lower head or less gallons delivered at higher heights. On the plus side the magnetic driven pump has replaceable parts that the sealed submersible doesn’t have. The in line pump sitting up out of the pond has many advantages that submersible pumps do not have. Some of the options they offer are , offering the ability to draw water off of the bottom of the pond via a bottom drain, definitely more gallonage per hour at very low power consumption.,as low as .88 amps for 1200 gallons per hour.The thing you want to look at first is how much water do you have to move? A small waterfall for example requires 50-60 gallons for every 1 inch wide. so for a waterfall 6 inches wide you would require 300 gallons per hour. If your pond is under 1000 gallons and you have a small filter sitting out of the pond as part of your watercourse you can check the magnetically driven pumps and they will have a chart describing the gallons pumped at each foot of rise.I think you will find that if you can incorporate a submerged pump that in time you will | Roger Pinette | Ponds Beautiful (604) 534-9133 | http://www.pondsbeautiful.com Hi Gary, I am not familiar with Cal pumps since I was advised years ago to stay away from them. I used Little Giant pumps in the past and found that I never had clear water. If water quality and clear water is your goal you should considered using an outside pump and filter system. There will be people on this NG that will disagree but this is my opinion having used both. Outside filters are allot easier to maintain and outside pumps are really cheap to run 24/7. You may be able to pick up a used pump real cheap. see my filter setup at, good luck. http://sites.netscape.net/guppyusa/homepage I have a 2500 gallon pond, 3 months old, with a Cal 1200 pump. It just doesn’t do the job and I want to upgrade it to make my waterfall more substantial. The pump I choose needs to have an inline connection for the in-pond filter (yes, it’s crummy but it was not my design!). I want something that is cheap to run and, yes, cheap to buy. I was considering the Cal 2700 but would appreciate any advice or recommendations. Thanks, Gary
–
Response:
— Hi Gary., I would like to get in on this pump debate. I do not think it is fair to say one specific pump is better than another one. The answer to your question I think is to do your research on pumps before buying one. The pumps can be divided into at least three groups. Submersible (sealed), submersible (magnetic drive) and in line such as a pool pump. The magnetic drive is very inexpensive on power consumption but the trade off is a much lower head or less gallons delivered at higher heights. On the plus side the magnetic driven pump has replaceable parts that the sealed submersible doesn’t have. The in line pump sitting up out of the pond has many advantages that submersible pumps do not have. Some of the options they offer are , offering the ability to draw water off of the bottom of the pond via a bottom drain,
Depending on how the filter is designed, all pumps mentioned above can draw water off the bottom. I have a Beckett submersible in a gravity-fed filter using the Tetra vacuum bottom drain. ~ jan See my ponds thru the seasons: http://jjspond.home.att.net/ ~Keep ‘em Wet!~ Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a To e-mail see website – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -definitely more gallonage per hour at very low power consumption.,as low as .88 amps for 1200 gallons per hour.The thing you want to look at first is how much water do you have to move? A small waterfall for example requires 50-60 gallons for every 1 inch wide. so for a waterfall 6 inches wide you would require 300 gallons per hour. If your pond is under 1000 gallons and you have a small filter sitting out of the pond as part of your watercourse you can check the magnetically driven pumps and they will have a chart describing the gallons pumped at each foot of rise.I think you will find that if you can incorporate a submerged pump that in time you will | Roger Pinette | Ponds Beautiful (604) 534-9133 | http://www.pondsbeautiful.com Hi Gary, I am not familiar with Cal pumps since I was advised years ago to stay away from them. I used Little Giant pumps in the past and found that I never had clear water. If water quality and clear water is your goal you should considered using an outside pump and filter system. There will be people on this NG that will disagree but this is my opinion having used both. Outside filters are allot easier to maintain and outside pumps are really cheap to run 24/7. You may be able to pick up a used pump real cheap. see my filter setup at, good luck. http://sites.netscape.net/guppyusa/homepage I have a 2500 gallon pond, 3 months old, with a Cal 1200 pump. It just doesn’t do the job and I want to upgrade it to make my waterfall more substantial. The pump I choose needs to have an inline connection for the in-pond filter (yes, it’s crummy but it was not my design!). I want something that is cheap to run and, yes, cheap to buy. I was considering the Cal 2700 but would appreciate any advice or recommendations. Thanks, Gary
Response:
Hi Rennie, Welcome Back… It’s great to have you back here where you belong. Between that awful Flu and your server you’ve been absent for some time …. Glad your doctors and your server got it all together … A hearty Welcome to Roger! You know what that means Roger? Bottom line: You are Porg!! You will be assimilated. All efforts to become disentangled will be useless (or something like that ;o) Nedra / Missouri / Zone 6 — Nedra’s Ponds: www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836/
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — Hi Gary., I would like to get in on this pump debate. I do not think it is fair to say one specific pump is better than another one. The answer to your question I think is to do your research on pumps before buying one. The pumps can be divided into at least three groups. Submersible (sealed), submersible (magnetic drive) and in line such as a pool pump. The magnetic drive is very inexpensive on power consumption but the trade off is a much lower head or less gallons delivered at higher heights. On the plus side the magnetic driven pump has replaceable parts that the sealed submersible doesn’t have. The in line pump sitting up out of the pond has many advantages that submersible pumps do not have. Some of the options they offer are , offering the ability to draw water off of the bottom of the pond via a bottom drain, definitely more gallonage per hour at very low power consumption.,as low as .88 amps for 1200 gallons per hour.The thing you want to look at first is how much water do you have to move? A small waterfall for example requires 50-60 gallons for every 1 inch wide. so for a waterfall 6 inches wide you would require 300 gallons per hour. If your pond is under 1000 gallons and you have a small filter sitting out of the pond as part of your watercourse you can check the magnetically driven pumps and they will have a chart describing the gallons pumped at each foot of rise.I think you will find that if you can incorporate a submerged pump that in time you will | Roger Pinette | Ponds Beautiful (604) 534-9133 | http://www.pondsbeautiful.com Roger, welcome to the newsgroup. I’m sure all of us in rec.ponds will benefit from your many years of watergardening and Koi expertise… To the regulars in the NG, this is the gentleman that dropped everything he was doing the day of the vandalism to my pond and rushed out to be of assistance trying to get everything working again. Thank you again Roger for all your help….. Rennie in Abbotsford PS…ISP finally finished system re-build and put rec.ponds back on newsserver…nice to be back……
Response:
PS…ISP finally finished system re-build and put rec.ponds back on newsserver…nice to be back……
Rennie, welcome back, almost had to send the lily fairies after you. Unfortunately many seem to be AWOL from rec.ponds. Time to hit the books & magazines and get more pond related topics going. ;o) ~ jan
Response:
My 300 GPH Little Giant lasted 4 years. I don’t remember the model number but it cost about $60 at Home Depot. I replaced it with the same model and expect to get 4 years from the new one also, It runs 24/7 year round. — Larry Wasserman Baltimore, Maryland
Response:
A small waterfall for example requires 50-60 gallons for every 1 inch wide. so for a waterfall 6 inches wide you would require 300 gallons per hour.
That seems quite low… don’t most sources recommend about 100 gph per inch of sill width? – Rod
Response:
On the plus side the magnetic driven pump has replaceable parts that the sealed submersible doesn’t have.
Are we talking about the same things here? Most people saying ‘magnetic driven’ are talking strictly about Danner’s Supreme Mag-Drive. iirc, that’s an epoxy sealed unit that has about 3 replaceable parts. My ’sealed’ submersible has dozens of replacable parts – including the seals. — Derek (www.netcom.ca/~dbrought/pond) rec.ponds FAQ http://w3.one.net/~rzutt/faq.html You can’t jail a free man, the best you can do is kill him. – Heinlein
Response:
I have a 2500 gallon pond, 3 months old, with a Cal 1200 pump. It just doesn’t do the job and I want to upgrade it to make my waterfall more substantial. The pump I choose needs to have an inline connection for the in-pond filter (yes, it’s crummy but it was not my design!). I want something that is cheap to run and, yes, cheap to buy. I was considering the Cal 2700 but would appreciate any advice or recommendations. Thanks, Gary
Response:
Hi Gary, I am not familiar with Cal pumps since I was advised years ago to stay away from them. I used Little Giant pumps in the past and found that I never had clear water. If water quality and clear water is your goal you should considered using an outside pump and filter system. There will be people on this NG that will disagree but this is my opinion having used both. Outside filters are allot easier to maintain and outside pumps are really cheap to run 24/7. You may be able to pick up a used pump real cheap. see my filter setup at, good luck. http://sites.netscape.net/guppyusa/homepage – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a 2500 gallon pond, 3 months old, with a Cal 1200 pump. It just doesn’t do the job and I want to upgrade it to make my waterfall more substantial. The pump I choose needs to have an inline connection for the in-pond filter (yes, it’s crummy but it was not my design!). I want something that is cheap to run and, yes, cheap to buy. I was considering the Cal 2700 but would appreciate any advice or recommendations. Thanks, Gary
Response:
I was considering the Cal 2700 but would appreciate any advice or recommendations.
Cal S2700 draws 3.8 amps at 2680 gph at 1 foot head, and costs $280. http://www.calpump.com/prod03.htm Sequence 1000 K3H1.111 draws 1.7 amps at 2590 gph at 4.4 foot head, and costs $375. http://members.aol.com/mdmpumps/pumpspecs.html Operating costs at average US electrical rates ($0.086/ kwh) are $344 and $154 per year for full time use, respectively. (Of course, the waterfall doesn’t have to be run full time; a smaller pump would suffice for filtration and aeration.) This is just an example to illustrate that efficiency is more important than purchase price. In this case, the more expensive pump pays for itself in 6 months operation, and may last longer as well. There are many other brands besides these two. – Rod
Response:
– Hi Gary., I would like to get in on this pump debate. I do not think it is fair to say one specific pump is better than another one. The answer to your question I think is to do your research on pumps before buying one. The pumps can be divided into at least three groups. Submersible (sealed), submersible (magnetic drive) and in line such as a pool pump. The magnetic drive is very inexpensive on power consumption but the trade off is a much lower head or less gallons delivered at higher heights. On the plus side the magnetic driven pump has replaceable parts that the sealed submersible doesn’t have. The in line pump sitting up out of the pond has many advantages that submersible pumps do not have. Some of the options they offer are , offering the ability to draw water off of the bottom of the pond via a bottom drain, definitely more gallonage per hour at very low power consumption.,as low as .88 amps for 1200 gallons per hour.The thing you want to look at first is how much water do you have to move? A small waterfall for example requires 50-60 gallons for every 1 inch wide. so for a waterfall 6 inches wide you would require 300 gallons per hour. If your pond is under 1000 gallons and you have a small filter sitting out of the pond as part of your watercourse you can check the magnetically driven pumps and they will have a chart describing the gallons pumped at each foot of rise.I think you will find that if you can incorporate a submerged pump that in time you will | Roger Pinette | Ponds Beautiful (604) 534-9133 | http://www.pondsbeautiful.com
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Gary, I am not familiar with Cal pumps since I was advised years ago to stay away from them. I used Little Giant pumps in the past and found that I never had clear water. If water quality and clear water is your goal you should considered using an outside pump and filter system. There will be people on this NG that will disagree but this is my opinion having used both. Outside filters are allot easier to maintain and outside pumps are really cheap to run 24/7. You may be able to pick up a used pump real cheap. see my filter setup at, good luck. http://sites.netscape.net/guppyusa/homepage I have a 2500 gallon pond, 3 months old, with a Cal 1200 pump. It just doesn’t do the job and I want to upgrade it to make my waterfall more substantial. The pump I choose needs to have an inline connection for the in-pond filter (yes, it’s crummy but it was not my design!). I want something that is cheap to run and, yes, cheap to buy. I was considering the Cal 2700 but would appreciate any advice or recommendations. Thanks, Gary
Response:
Thanks Rogeer for a lot of good info. I’d like to mention for discussion my experience with pumps so far. In our two ponds that we got when we moved, each had a Little Giant submersible pump. Both eventually started leaking coolant and had to be replaced. They lasted only about 13 months (good work, as they are guaranteed for only a year!). One more lasted about the same. So, I replaced it with an above-ground pool pump with skimmer and filter, and that has done yeoman service, plugging away for two years now with no problem. It cost only a little more than the Little Giant even with skimmer and filter. The dealers I talked with all said those submersible pumps are not designed to work full time without going belly up after about a year. Any others had similar experiences? | NOTE: If you want to e-mail a reply, please strip | | off the letters "OOPS" from my address. | | (Spam preventer) | – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text — Hi Gary., I would like to get in on this pump debate. I do not think it is fair to say one specific pump is better than another one. The answer to your question I think is to do your research on pumps before buying one. The pumps can be divided into at least three groups. Submersible (sealed), submersible (magnetic drive) and in line such as a pool pump. The magnetic drive is very inexpensive on power consumption but the trade off is a much lower head or less gallons delivered at higher heights. On the plus side the magnetic driven pump has replaceable parts that the sealed submersible doesn’t have. The in line pump sitting up out of the pond has many advantages that submersible pumps do not have. Some of the options they offer are , offering the ability to draw water off of the bottom of the pond via a bottom drain, definitely more gallonage per hour at very low power consumption.,as low as .88 amps for 1200 gallons per hour.The thing you want to look at first is how much water do you have to move? A small waterfall for example requires 50-60 gallons for every 1 inch wide. so for a waterfall 6 inches wide you would require 300 gallons per hour. If your pond is under 1000 gallons and you have a small filter sitting out of the pond as part of your watercourse you can check the magnetically driven pumps and they will have a chart describing the gallons pumped at each foot of rise.I think you will find that if you can incorporate a submerged pump that in time you will | Roger Pinette | Ponds Beautiful (604) 534-9133 | http://www.pondsbeautiful.com Hi Gary, I am not familiar with Cal pumps since I was advised years ago to stay away from them. I used Little Giant pumps in the past and found that I never had clear water. If water quality and clear water is your goal you should considered using an outside pump and filter system. There will be people on this NG that will disagree but this is my opinion having used both. Outside filters are allot easier to maintain and outside pumps are really cheap to run 24/7. You may be able to pick up a used pump real cheap. see my filter setup at, good luck. http://sites.netscape.net/guppyusa/homepage I have a 2500 gallon pond, 3 months old, with a Cal 1200 pump. It just doesn’t do the job and I want to upgrade it to make my waterfall more substantial. The pump I choose needs to have an inline connection for the in-pond filter (yes, it’s crummy but it was not my design!). I want something that is cheap to run and, yes, cheap to buy. I was considering the Cal 2700 but would appreciate any advice or recommendations. Thanks, Gary
–
Response:
— Hi Gary., I would like to get in on this pump debate. I do not think it is fair to say one specific pump is better than another one. The answer to your question I think is to do your research on pumps before buying one. The pumps can be divided into at least three groups. Submersible (sealed), submersible (magnetic drive) and in line such as a pool pump. The magnetic drive is very inexpensive on power consumption but the trade off is a much lower head or less gallons delivered at higher heights. On the plus side the magnetic driven pump has replaceable parts that the sealed submersible doesn’t have. The in line pump sitting up out of the pond has many advantages that submersible pumps do not have. Some of the options they offer are , offering the ability to draw water off of the bottom of the pond via a bottom drain,
Depending on how the filter is designed, all pumps mentioned above can draw water off the bottom. I have a Beckett submersible in a gravity-fed filter using the Tetra vacuum bottom drain. ~ jan See my ponds thru the seasons: http://jjspond.home.att.net/ ~Keep ‘em Wet!~ Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a To e-mail see website – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -definitely more gallonage per hour at very low power consumption.,as low as .88 amps for 1200 gallons per hour.The thing you want to look at first is how much water do you have to move? A small waterfall for example requires 50-60 gallons for every 1 inch wide. so for a waterfall 6 inches wide you would require 300 gallons per hour. If your pond is under 1000 gallons and you have a small filter sitting out of the pond as part of your watercourse you can check the magnetically driven pumps and they will have a chart describing the gallons pumped at each foot of rise.I think you will find that if you can incorporate a submerged pump that in time you will | Roger Pinette | Ponds Beautiful (604) 534-9133 | http://www.pondsbeautiful.com Hi Gary, I am not familiar with Cal pumps since I was advised years ago to stay away from them. I used Little Giant pumps in the past and found that I never had clear water. If water quality and clear water is your goal you should considered using an outside pump and filter system. There will be people on this NG that will disagree but this is my opinion having used both. Outside filters are allot easier to maintain and outside pumps are really cheap to run 24/7. You may be able to pick up a used pump real cheap. see my filter setup at, good luck. http://sites.netscape.net/guppyusa/homepage I have a 2500 gallon pond, 3 months old, with a Cal 1200 pump. It just doesn’t do the job and I want to upgrade it to make my waterfall more substantial. The pump I choose needs to have an inline connection for the in-pond filter (yes, it’s crummy but it was not my design!). I want something that is cheap to run and, yes, cheap to buy. I was considering the Cal 2700 but would appreciate any advice or recommendations. Thanks, Gary
Response:
Hi Rennie, Welcome Back… It’s great to have you back here where you belong. Between that awful Flu and your server you’ve been absent for some time …. Glad your doctors and your server got it all together … A hearty Welcome to Roger! You know what that means Roger? Bottom line: You are Porg!! You will be assimilated. All efforts to become disentangled will be useless (or something like that ;o) Nedra / Missouri / Zone 6 — Nedra’s Ponds: www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836/
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — Hi Gary., I would like to get in on this pump debate. I do not think it is fair to say one specific pump is better than another one. The answer to your question I think is to do your research on pumps before buying one. The pumps can be divided into at least three groups. Submersible (sealed), submersible (magnetic drive) and in line such as a pool pump. The magnetic drive is very inexpensive on power consumption but the trade off is a much lower head or less gallons delivered at higher heights. On the plus side the magnetic driven pump has replaceable parts that the sealed submersible doesn’t have. The in line pump sitting up out of the pond has many advantages that submersible pumps do not have. Some of the options they offer are , offering the ability to draw water off of the bottom of the pond via a bottom drain, definitely more gallonage per hour at very low power consumption.,as low as .88 amps for 1200 gallons per hour.The thing you want to look at first is how much water do you have to move? A small waterfall for example requires 50-60 gallons for every 1 inch wide. so for a waterfall 6 inches wide you would require 300 gallons per hour. If your pond is under 1000 gallons and you have a small filter sitting out of the pond as part of your watercourse you can check the magnetically driven pumps and they will have a chart describing the gallons pumped at each foot of rise.I think you will find that if you can incorporate a submerged pump that in time you will | Roger Pinette | Ponds Beautiful (604) 534-9133 | http://www.pondsbeautiful.com Roger, welcome to the newsgroup. I’m sure all of us in rec.ponds will benefit from your many years of watergardening and Koi expertise… To the regulars in the NG, this is the gentleman that dropped everything he was doing the day of the vandalism to my pond and rushed out to be of assistance trying to get everything working again. Thank you again Roger for all your help….. Rennie in Abbotsford PS…ISP finally finished system re-build and put rec.ponds back on newsserver…nice to be back……
Response:
PS…ISP finally finished system re-build and put rec.ponds back on newsserver…nice to be back……
Rennie, welcome back, almost had to send the lily fairies after you. Unfortunately many seem to be AWOL from rec.ponds. Time to hit the books & magazines and get more pond related topics going. ;o) ~ jan
Response:
My 300 GPH Little Giant lasted 4 years. I don’t remember the model number but it cost about $60 at Home Depot. I replaced it with the same model and expect to get 4 years from the new one also, It runs 24/7 year round. — Larry Wasserman Baltimore, Maryland
Response:
A small waterfall for example requires 50-60 gallons for every 1 inch wide. so for a waterfall 6 inches wide you would require 300 gallons per hour.
That seems quite low… don’t most sources recommend about 100 gph per inch of sill width? – Rod
Response:
On the plus side the magnetic driven pump has replaceable parts that the sealed submersible doesn’t have.
Are we talking about the same things here? Most people saying ‘magnetic driven’ are talking strictly about Danner’s Supreme Mag-Drive. iirc, that’s an epoxy sealed unit that has about 3 replaceable parts. My ’sealed’ submersible has dozens of replacable parts – including the seals. — Derek (www.netcom.ca/~dbrought/pond) rec.ponds FAQ http://w3.one.net/~rzutt/faq.html You can’t jail a free man, the best you can do is kill him. – Heinlein
Response:
I have a 2500 gallon pond, 3 months old, with a Cal 1200 pump. It just doesn’t do the job and I want to upgrade it to make my waterfall more substantial. The pump I choose needs to have an inline connection for the in-pond filter (yes, it’s crummy but it was not my design!). I want something that is cheap to run and, yes, cheap to buy. I was considering the Cal 2700 but would appreciate any advice or recommendations. Thanks, Gary
Response:
Hi Gary, I am not familiar with Cal pumps since I was advised years ago to stay away from them. I used Little Giant pumps in the past and found that I never had clear water. If water quality and clear water is your goal you should considered using an outside pump and filter system. There will be people on this NG that will disagree but this is my opinion having used both. Outside filters are allot easier to maintain and outside pumps are really cheap to run 24/7. You may be able to pick up a used pump real cheap. see my filter setup at, good luck. http://sites.netscape.net/guppyusa/homepage – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a 2500 gallon pond, 3 months old, with a Cal 1200 pump. It just doesn’t do the job and I want to upgrade it to make my waterfall more substantial. The pump I choose needs to have an inline connection for the in-pond filter (yes, it’s crummy but it was not my design!). I want something that is cheap to run and, yes, cheap to buy. I was considering the Cal 2700 but would appreciate any advice or recommendations. Thanks, Gary
Response:
I was considering the Cal 2700 but would appreciate any advice or recommendations.
Cal S2700 draws 3.8 amps at 2680 gph at 1 foot head, and costs $280. http://www.calpump.com/prod03.htm Sequence 1000 K3H1.111 draws 1.7 amps at 2590 gph at 4.4 foot head, and costs $375. http://members.aol.com/mdmpumps/pumpspecs.html Operating costs at average US electrical rates ($0.086/ kwh) are $344 and $154 per year for full time use, respectively. (Of course, the waterfall doesn’t have to be run full time; a smaller pump would suffice for filtration and aeration.) This is just an example to illustrate that efficiency is more important than purchase price. In this case, the more expensive pump pays for itself in 6 months operation, and may last longer as well. There are many other brands besides these two. – Rod
Response:
– Hi Gary., I would like to get in on this pump debate. I do not think it is fair to say one specific pump is better than another one. The answer to your question I think is to do your research on pumps before buying one. The pumps can be divided into at least three groups. Submersible (sealed), submersible (magnetic drive) and in line such as a pool pump. The magnetic drive is very inexpensive on power consumption but the trade off is a much lower head or less gallons delivered at higher heights. On the plus side the magnetic driven pump has replaceable parts that the sealed submersible doesn’t have. The in line pump sitting up out of the pond has many advantages that submersible pumps do not have. Some of the options they offer are , offering the ability to draw water off of the bottom of the pond via a bottom drain, definitely more gallonage per hour at very low power consumption.,as low as .88 amps for 1200 gallons per hour.The thing you want to look at first is how much water do you have to move? A small waterfall for example requires 50-60 gallons for every 1 inch wide. so for a waterfall 6 inches wide you would require 300 gallons per hour. If your pond is under 1000 gallons and you have a small filter sitting out of the pond as part of your watercourse you can check the magnetically driven pumps and they will have a chart describing the gallons pumped at each foot of rise.I think you will find that if you can incorporate a submerged pump that in time you will | Roger Pinette | Ponds Beautiful (604) 534-9133 | http://www.pondsbeautiful.com
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Gary, I am not familiar with Cal pumps since I was advised years ago to stay away from them. I used Little Giant pumps in the past and found that I never had clear water. If water quality and clear water is your goal you should considered using an outside pump and filter system. There will be people on this NG that will disagree but this is my opinion having used both. Outside filters are allot easier to maintain and outside pumps are really cheap to run 24/7. You may be able to pick up a used pump real cheap. see my filter setup at, good luck. http://sites.netscape.net/guppyusa/homepage I have a 2500 gallon pond, 3 months old, with a Cal 1200 pump. It just doesn’t do the job and I want to upgrade it to make my waterfall more substantial. The pump I choose needs to have an inline connection for the in-pond filter (yes, it’s crummy but it was not my design!). I want something that is cheap to run and, yes, cheap to buy. I was considering the Cal 2700 but would appreciate any advice or recommendations. Thanks, Gary
Response:
Thanks Rogeer for a lot of good info. I’d like to mention for discussion my experience with pumps so far. In our two ponds that we got when we moved, each had a Little Giant submersible pump. Both eventually started leaking coolant and had to be replaced. They lasted only about 13 months (good work, as they are guaranteed for only a year!). One more lasted about the same. So, I replaced it with an above-ground pool pump with skimmer and filter, and that has done yeoman service, plugging away for two years now with no problem. It cost only a little more than the Little Giant even with skimmer and filter. The dealers I talked with all said those submersible pumps are not designed to work full time without going belly up after about a year. Any others had similar experiences? | NOTE: If you want to e-mail a reply, please strip | | off the letters "OOPS" from my address. | | (Spam preventer) | – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text — Hi Gary., I would like to get in on this pump debate. I do not think it is fair to say one specific pump is better than another one. The answer to your question I think is to do your research on pumps before buying one. The pumps can be divided into at least three groups. Submersible (sealed), submersible (magnetic drive) and in line such as a pool pump. The magnetic drive is very inexpensive on power consumption but the trade off is a much lower head or less gallons delivered at higher heights. On the plus side the magnetic driven pump has replaceable parts that the sealed submersible doesn’t have. The in line pump sitting up out of the pond has many advantages that submersible pumps do not have. Some of the options they offer are , offering the ability to draw water off of the bottom of the pond via a bottom drain, definitely more gallonage per hour at very low power consumption.,as low as .88 amps for 1200 gallons per hour.The thing you want to look at first is how much water do you have to move? A small waterfall for example requires 50-60 gallons for every 1 inch wide. so for a waterfall 6 inches wide you would require 300 gallons per hour. If your pond is under 1000 gallons and you have a small filter sitting out of the pond as part of your watercourse you can check the magnetically driven pumps and they will have a chart describing the gallons pumped at each foot of rise.I think you will find that if you can incorporate a submerged pump that in time you will | Roger Pinette | Ponds Beautiful (604) 534-9133 | http://www.pondsbeautiful.com Hi Gary, I am not familiar with Cal pumps since I was advised years ago to stay away from them. I used Little Giant pumps in the past and found that I never had clear water. If water quality and clear water is your goal you should considered using an outside pump and filter system. There will be people on this NG that will disagree but this is my opinion having used both. Outside filters are allot easier to maintain and outside pumps are really cheap to run 24/7. You may be able to pick up a used pump real cheap. see my filter setup at, good luck. http://sites.netscape.net/guppyusa/homepage I have a 2500 gallon pond, 3 months old, with a Cal 1200 pump. It just doesn’t do the job and I want to upgrade it to make my waterfall more substantial. The pump I choose needs to have an inline connection for the in-pond filter (yes, it’s crummy but it was not my design!). I want something that is cheap to run and, yes, cheap to buy. I was considering the Cal 2700 but would appreciate any advice or recommendations. Thanks, Gary
–
Response:
— Hi Gary., I would like to get in on this pump debate. I do not think it is fair to say one specific pump is better than another one. The answer to your question I think is to do your research on pumps before buying one. The pumps can be divided into at least three groups. Submersible (sealed), submersible (magnetic drive) and in line such as a pool pump. The magnetic drive is very inexpensive on power consumption but the trade off is a much lower head or less gallons delivered at higher heights. On the plus side the magnetic driven pump has replaceable parts that the sealed submersible doesn’t have. The in line pump sitting up out of the pond has many advantages that submersible pumps do not have. Some of the options they offer are , offering the ability to draw water off of the bottom of the pond via a bottom drain,
Depending on how the filter is designed, all pumps mentioned above can draw water off the bottom. I have a Beckett submersible in a gravity-fed filter using the Tetra vacuum bottom drain. ~ jan See my ponds thru the seasons: http://jjspond.home.att.net/ ~Keep ‘em Wet!~ Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a To e-mail see website – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -definitely more gallonage per hour at very low power consumption.,as low as .88 amps for 1200 gallons per hour.The thing you want to look at first is how much water do you have to move? A small waterfall for example requires 50-60 gallons for every 1 inch wide. so for a waterfall 6 inches wide you would require 300 gallons per hour. If your pond is under 1000 gallons and you have a small filter sitting out of the pond as part of your watercourse you can check the magnetically driven pumps and they will have a chart describing the gallons pumped at each foot of rise.I think you will find that if you can incorporate a submerged pump that in time you will | Roger Pinette | Ponds Beautiful (604) 534-9133 | http://www.pondsbeautiful.com Hi Gary, I am not familiar with Cal pumps since I was advised years ago to stay away from them. I used Little Giant pumps in the past and found that I never had clear water. If water quality and clear water is your goal you should considered using an outside pump and filter system. There will be people on this NG that will disagree but this is my opinion having used both. Outside filters are allot easier to maintain and outside pumps are really cheap to run 24/7. You may be able to pick up a used pump real cheap. see my filter setup at, good luck. http://sites.netscape.net/guppyusa/homepage I have a 2500 gallon pond, 3 months old, with a Cal 1200 pump. It just doesn’t do the job and I want to upgrade it to make my waterfall more substantial. The pump I choose needs to have an inline connection for the in-pond filter (yes, it’s crummy but it was not my design!). I want something that is cheap to run and, yes, cheap to buy. I was considering the Cal 2700 but would appreciate any advice or recommendations. Thanks, Gary
Response:
Hi Rennie, Welcome Back… It’s great to have you back here where you belong. Between that awful Flu and your server you’ve been absent for some time …. Glad your doctors and your server got it all together … A hearty Welcome to Roger! You know what that means Roger? Bottom line: You are Porg!! You will be assimilated. All efforts to become disentangled will be useless (or something like that ;o) Nedra / Missouri / Zone 6 — Nedra’s Ponds: www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836/
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — Hi Gary., I would like to get in on this pump debate. I do not think it is fair to say one specific pump is better than another one. The answer to your question I think is to do your research on pumps before buying one. The pumps can be divided into at least three groups. Submersible (sealed), submersible (magnetic drive) and in line such as a pool pump. The magnetic drive is very inexpensive on power consumption but the trade off is a much lower head or less gallons delivered at higher heights. On the plus side the magnetic driven pump has replaceable parts that the sealed submersible doesn’t have. The in line pump sitting up out of the pond has many advantages that submersible pumps do not have. Some of the options they offer are , offering the ability to draw water off of the bottom of the pond via a bottom drain, definitely more gallonage per hour at very low power consumption.,as low as .88 amps for 1200 gallons per hour.The thing you want to look at first is how much water do you have to move? A small waterfall for example requires 50-60 gallons for every 1 inch wide. so for a waterfall 6 inches wide you would require 300 gallons per hour. If your pond is under 1000 gallons and you have a small filter sitting out of the pond as part of your watercourse you can check the magnetically driven pumps and they will have a chart describing the gallons pumped at each foot of rise.I think you will find that if you can incorporate a submerged pump that in time you will | Roger Pinette | Ponds Beautiful (604) 534-9133 | http://www.pondsbeautiful.com Roger, welcome to the newsgroup. I’m sure all of us in rec.ponds will benefit from your many years of watergardening and Koi expertise… To the regulars in the NG, this is the gentleman that dropped everything he was doing the day of the vandalism to my pond and rushed out to be of assistance trying to get everything working again. Thank you again Roger for all your help….. Rennie in Abbotsford PS…ISP finally finished system re-build and put rec.ponds back on newsserver…nice to be back……
Response:
PS…ISP finally finished system re-build and put rec.ponds back on newsserver…nice to be back……
Rennie, welcome back, almost had to send the lily fairies after you. Unfortunately many seem to be AWOL from rec.ponds. Time to hit the books & magazines and get more pond related topics going. ;o) ~ jan
Response:
My 300 GPH Little Giant lasted 4 years. I don’t remember the model number but it cost about $60 at Home Depot. I replaced it with the same model and expect to get 4 years from the new one also, It runs 24/7 year round. — Larry Wasserman Baltimore, Maryland
Response:
A small waterfall for example requires 50-60 gallons for every 1 inch wide. so for a waterfall 6 inches wide you would require 300 gallons per hour.
That seems quite low… don’t most sources recommend about 100 gph per inch of sill width? – Rod
Response:
On the plus side the magnetic driven pump has replaceable parts that the sealed submersible doesn’t have.
Are we talking about the same things here? Most people saying ‘magnetic driven’ are talking strictly about Danner’s Supreme Mag-Drive. iirc, that’s an epoxy sealed unit that has about 3 replaceable parts. My ’sealed’ submersible has dozens of replacable parts – including the seals. — Derek (www.netcom.ca/~dbrought/pond) rec.ponds FAQ http://w3.one.net/~rzutt/faq.html You can’t jail a free man, the best you can do is kill him. – Heinlein
Response:
Jackie ~*~The Earth Laughs in Flowers……. 
) Philip 
— Gary Cooper