Question:

Hi!    I have felt both ways meaning when the doctors have increased/decreased the Prednisone I still have numberous attacks. I have come to the conclusion that I am very sensitive to alot of allergens. Sometimes I am just not sure what to do anymore.  I hope you feel better.   Sandy

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I just tapered off a five day prednizone treatment, now I am off of it and on flovent and albuterol, has anyone felt  more asthma after coming off of pred?

Response:

James Yes. I had to extend the pred treatment to 10 days and taper off more slowly. Norman – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just tapered off a five day prednizone treatment, now I am off of it and on flovent and albuterol, has anyone felt  more asthma after coming off of pred?

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Question:

Both to varying degrees. — CBI, M.D. Please note: It is impossible to accurately diagnose medical problems without seeing the patient and reviewing the entire history. These posts are intended to be helpful and informative. Always check with your doctor before following any advice given.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m curious about meds. Would Flovent and Serevent be prescribed for Emphysema or are they usually just dxed for asthma?

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I’m curious about meds. Would Flovent and Serevent be prescribed for Emphysema or are they usually just dxed for asthma?

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Question:

: : I just recieved a nebuliser to help me with this bronchitis I have.  This : is my third case since fall.  It is like I get over one case of it and : then walk right into another one.  This time the flu turned into : bronchitis.  Then my lungs dried out.  I was coughing up hard mucus.  This : hurt real bad. [snip] : : shown.  Also, for the thick mucous, drink plenty of water.  This is your : best friend.  The water keeps the secretions hydrated so you can bring them : up easier and decrease your chances of continuous infections.  Thick : mucous can lead to mucous plugging, leading to worse problems than : bronchitis.  Ask the doctor about an expectorant to help along with the : water.  If you are having continous bouts of infection, chances are it is : being set off from an allergic reaction to something.  Have you come : in contact with something new?  Might want to go see an allergist, or : if you have a HMO dr., insist that he refer you to one.  Find out now to : get a better handle on this. :          Good Luck,   Donna Another potential hint for the thick mucus:  use a humidifier of some sort, particularly at night – that might help keep things moist.  YMMV on this, of course – I found that humid air is harder to breathe, even when I’m sick, though for some reason a hot shower helps without bothering me. And make sure to clean/disinfect the humidifier regularly to prevent growth of mold/bacteria. …Marie and ‘Fang’ (Joey) 8/13/94… …He’s learned to climb – the end of Life As We Know It!  Aiiigggghhhhh!

Response:

I just recieved a nebuliser to help me with this bronchitis I have.  This is my third case since fall.  It is like I get over one case of it and then walk right into another one.  This time the flu turned into bronchitis.  Then my lungs dried out.  I was coughing up hard mucus.  This hurt real bad. I want to ad that I love my neb.  It is a pain in the butt to clean it, but I have been consistent.  I feel much better after using it(much better than the albuterol cannister).  I was on it every 4 hours at first.  Now I am on it just 3 times a day or as needed.  For awhile if felt like I was tied to the nebuliser!  I added up the time spent using and cleaning it (15 minutes every use).  I spent close to 1-2 hours a day getting to know that machine.

First of all.  There is no need to clean the nebulizer chamber after each treatment.  Every two days is sufficient, as studies have shown.  Also, for the thick mucous, drink plenty of water.  This is your best friend.  The water keeps the secretions hydrated so you can bring them up easier and decrease your chances of continuous infections.  Thick mucous can lead to mucous plugging, leading to worse problems than bronchitis.  Ask the doctor about an expectorant to help along with the water.  If you are having continous bouts of infection, chances are it is being set off from an allergic reaction to something.  Have you come in contact with something new?  Might want to go see an allergist, or if you have a HMO dr., insist that he refer you to one.  Find out now to get a better handle on this.          Good Luck,   Donna

Response:

I just recieved a nebuliser to help me with this bronchitis I have.  This is my third case since fall.  It is like I get over one case of it and then walk right into another one.  This time the flu turned into bronchitis.  Then my lungs dried out.  I was coughing up hard mucus.  This hurt real bad. This really stinks(except I lost a pant size on the flu diet).  I am trying to keep a good mental outlook but it is hard as I watch the dollars fly out of my pocket!  Ha. I want to ad that I love my neb.  It is a pain in the butt to clean it, but I have been consistent.  I feel much better after using it(much better than the albuterol cannister).  I was on it every 4 hours at first.  Now I am on it just 3 times a day or as needed.  For awhile if felt like I was tied to the nebuliser!  I added up the time spent using and cleaning it (15 minutes every use).  I spent close to 1-2 hours a day getting to know that machine.   I have been on Biaxin for almost 7 days now and I am still coughing up GAK.  Anyone have any suggestions for me?  Have any of you had bronchitis this bad?  I am just so thankful it wasn’t a Pneumonia diagnosis.  I have heard about that hell. Thanks in advance for any support or input!   Suz in Arizona(gagging and huffing, oh well people leave me alone when I shop at least! Ha.)

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After a bad cold I think I might have bronchitis, which feels different than my usual asthma.  Can anyone tell me what bronchitis feels like? Do you have to have a fever?  Do antibiotics help?  Is there a test or something?  There is this "spot" I feel where I wheeze.  Cough is no longer productive. Any experience out there?  It’s still here 3 wks leter…

Antibiotics help if the bronchitis is caused by bacteria but not for virus. If you are still wheezing or your Peak Flow is below 80% of Personal Best, you may not be taking enough long-acting preventor meds like inhaled steroids. Here’s my links on bronchitis to research: http://www.vh.org/Beyond/PeerReviews/31Bronchitis.html Virtual Hospital,    Bronchitis http://www.familyinternet.com/peds/top/000124.htm  Acute Bronchitis http://www.njc.org/MFhtml/URI_MF.html  URI (Colds) &  Acute Bronchitis http://www.njc.org/PRhtml/!k_bronc.htm  Chronic Bronchitis http://www.charm.net/~epi1/mycoplas.htm  Mycoplasma http://www.sk.sympatico.ca/Contents/Health/REV_HTML/R7738.html Bronchitis    Resources http://www.springnet.com/ce/j701as1.htm Table. Causative Organisms     of Acute Bronchitis http://www.njc.org/MFhtml/RDE_MF.html Resources for COPD  (Chronic Bronchitis, Emphysema)

Question:

While I readily confess to employing btb, nesting and using half round-trips, I have never done hidden city. I can see how this really upsets the airlines. You* have checked in A-(B)-C and then you disappear at B.

Are we talking about multiple-leg trips here, or true hidden stopovers such as, for instance, these UA DEN-FRA which actually involve a change of gauge at ORD? Effects: 1. Passenger count is wrong.

Not really.  They give you two boarding passes. If you didn’t board, you don’t enter the count.   So, it’s just like anyone that’s checked in but ends up not showing up or not showing up in time. 2. Agents have to page you (just listen to how many of these there are next time you travel)

When was the last time you saw anyone get paged? 3. Baggage manifest has to be checked, when it’s apparent you’re not coming.

No luggage matching in North America.  So I am sure they don’t care. Bottom line: it’s just the fare issue.

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While I readily confess to employing btb, nesting and using half round-trips, I have never done hidden city. I can see how this really upsets the airlines. You* have checked in A-(B)-C and then you disappear at B. Are we talking about multiple-leg trips here, or true hidden stopovers such as, for instance, these UA DEN-FRA which actually involve a change of gauge at ORD?

Either, or the third case where it’s a through flight with a hub stopover (no plane change). Effects: 1. Passenger count is wrong. Not really.  They give you two boarding passes. If you didn’t board, you don’t enter the count.   So, it’s just like anyone that’s checked in but ends up not showing up or not showing up in time.

True. I had the through flight scenario in mind, but omitted to say so. 2. Agents have to page you (just listen to how many of these there are next time you travel) When was the last time you saw anyone get paged?

August 1, 2000. Maybe you just tune out those announcements. I hear them all the time. 3. Baggage manifest has to be checked, when it’s apparent you’re not coming. No luggage matching in North America.  So I am sure they don’t care.

Maybe no matching in the US, although I’m not sure of that. Baggage is certainly matched Canada-US transborder. Bottom line: it’s just the fare issue.

We’ll agree to differ. B.

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  I don’t see how hidden city tickets generally are very useful. Once you miss the second flight (assuming two each way), return reservations are cancelled; also you can’t have checked baggage as the airline would check luggage to the ticketed destination.   So to benefit, the round trip fare A – B – C – B – A must be less than a one way A – B, and the passenger must not have checked baggage. How often does this occur? —

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All the time for business travelers!!  I’m sure others have reaped a whole lot more savings than this, but last year, a co-worker needed a one way ticket to Cincinnati.  It was over $500.  A roundtrip on DL IAH-IND with a connection at CVG was $220.  This saved over $300. This works particularly well on last minute trips where the ultimate ticketed destination is a low fare compete route from the point of origin.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   I don’t see how hidden city tickets generally are very useful. Once you miss the second flight (assuming two each way), return reservations are cancelled; also you can’t have checked baggage as the airline would check luggage to the ticketed destination.   So to benefit, the round trip fare A – B – C – B – A must be less than a one way A – B, and the passenger must not have checked baggage. How often does this occur? —

Response:

 I don’t see how hidden city tickets generally are very useful. Once you miss the second flight (assuming two each way), return reservations are cancelled; also you can’t have checked baggage as the airline would check luggage to the ticketed destination.  So to benefit, the round trip fare A – B – C – B – A must be less than a one way A – B, and the passenger must not have checked baggage. How often does this occur? —

Quite often I’d say. One way fares on the ‘majors’ (like Delta who spawned this thread), are very expensive since they are all full fare (no discounts). I agree this ‘trick’ is of no use to the leisure traveller who wants to go A to B and come back again. But then they would probably never think of it, or else post to this ng asking if it can be done. B.

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  I don’t see how hidden city tickets generally are very useful. Once you miss the second flight (assuming two each way), return reservations are cancelled; also you can’t have checked baggage as the airline would check luggage to the ticketed destination.   So to benefit, the round trip fare A – B – C – B – A must be less than a one way A – B, and the passenger must not have checked baggage. How often does this occur?

It happens.  An example, look at J2RTN fares from Canada to Germany and compare them with equivalent fares from the US: it’s roughly twice.  So, get a cheap B-A-B round trip.   Of course, if you are a real FF miles junkie, you might actually fly the whole thing, which might actually be legal.  But not necessarily convenient.   Or you might have a fairly convoluted travel pattern.  Which might actually require you to go to A right before your trip to C. As to luggage, often you don’t check anything.  Or if B happens to be an entry point, you get it to go through customs anyway.

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All the time for business travelers!!  I’m sure others have reaped a whole lot more savings than this, but last year, a co-worker needed a one way ticket to Cincinnati.  It was over $500.  A roundtrip on DL IAH-IND with a connection at CVG was $220.  This saved over $300. This works particularly well on last minute trips where the ultimate ticketed destination is a low fare compete route from the point of origin.

And even better if said business travellers can bill the client for the full OW whack and pocket the difference. But that wouldn’t happen, would it ? B.

Response:

It is not always a certainty that the airlines will cancel your ongoing reservation if you don’t show up for a flight.  The airlines are pretty damn disorganized as it is, I’m sure you could easily persuade them to reinstate your record. In any case, as long as you check in for your first flight and receive a boarding pass for your second flight, then I doubt highly that you will find your following flights cancelled. I’ve done this before on Delta flying from STL-ATL.  The fare from STL-ATL is usually about a hundred dollars more than STL-MGM which connects in ATL anyway.  Just check in for the first flight, get boarding pass for second flight, throw away.  Then pay $19.99 to rent Budget car to drive to MGM and play golf on the way.  Fun. I have considered this for flights from STL-JFK.  The last minute fare on TWA is insane, around $1000.  However, you can buy STL-BWI with no advance for $300 that allows connecting in JFK.  Pretty crazy.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – All the time for business travelers!!  I’m sure others have reaped a whole lot more savings than this, but last year, a co-worker needed a one way ticket to Cincinnati.  It was over $500.  A roundtrip on DL IAH-IND with a connection at CVG was $220.  This saved over $300. This works particularly well on last minute trips where the ultimate ticketed destination is a low fare compete route from the point of origin. And even better if said business travellers can bill the client for the full OW whack and pocket the difference. But that wouldn’t happen, would it ? B.

Well, my said business travelers couldn’t do that because there’s no client to bill, not to mention the fact that they wouldn’t have a receipt for the higher fare

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I have considered this for flights from STL-JFK.  The last minute fare on TWA is insane, around $1000.

No Herb. However, you can buy STL-BWI with no advance for $300 that allows connecting in JFK.  Pretty crazy.

The Herb effect. Bob C.

Response:

Correct me if I’m wrong, but the airlines are the ones that came up with this pricing structure in the first place, weren’t they?  As opposed as I am to the moral aspects of cheating, I don’t see this as cheating.  I maintain that I have the right to get off the plane anywhere it stops if I feel like it.  Getting back on is my option.

<snip funny rant Right you are Bill! I can’t think of any other transportation medium that uses this – I have taken the bus between Toronto and Detroit for months. If you want to get out at London Ontario, no problem. I’ve taken a cruise where my wife got too seasick to continue – she was able to get off at an intermediate stop, no problem. I can’t imagine a cab ride where you say to the cabbie "Stop I want to get out here", and he says "No we have to continue to the airport, and then I’ll bring you back here". I agree with all the posters who have said the airlines created this problem with their screwy load management pricing, and they should be forced to honour tickets that they’ve issued under these schemes. It may result in slightly higher fares, but at least I’d feel it was a ‘fair fare’. OtherKevin

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Correct me if I’m wrong, but the airlines are the ones that came up with this pricing structure in the first place, weren’t they?  As opposed as I am to the moral aspects of cheating, I don’t see this as cheating.  I maintain that I have the right to get off the plane anywhere it stops if I feel like it.  Getting back on is my option. <snip funny rant Right you are Bill! I can’t think of any other transportation medium that uses this – I have taken the bus between Toronto and Detroit for months. If you want to get out at London Ontario, no problem. I’ve taken a cruise where my wife got too seasick to continue – she was able to get off at an intermediate stop, no problem. I can’t imagine a cab ride where you say to the cabbie "Stop I want to get out here", and he says "No we have to continue to the airport, and then I’ll bring you back here".

How would your bus and cruise examples be cheating the provider out of a higher fare as is the case with hidden city ticketing? I agree with all the posters who have said the airlines created this problem with their screwy load management pricing, and they should be forced to honour tickets that they’ve issued under these schemes. It may result in slightly higher fares, but at least I’d feel it was a ‘fair fare’.

This has absolutely nothing to do with "load management pricing."  It’s all about low fare competition.  If there were no low fare carriers, there would be no need for hidden city ticketing.

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FRA prices seem very high until well after Oktoberfest.

the problem though is Oktoberfest only happens in Munich.  Yea it happens to smaller degrees elsewhere but it is centered in Munich. (my liver is still hurting) Gerald Sylvester

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Excellent essay as always, Bill. I think I see a flaw in your argument however. You assume the airlines set their fares in some kind of controlled, logical manner. I believe they actually use a ouija board and/or a dart-throwing chimpanzee. From time to time this procedure is circumvented by someone shouting ‘Ohmigawd, Herbie Air has lower fares form Stinksville to Megalopolis, we must match them at once’. (Of course, back in the Middle Ages there were no hidden cities because there were no hubs.) While I readily confess to employing btb, nesting and using half round-trips, I have never done hidden city. I can see how this really upsets the airlines. You* have checked in A-(B)-C and then you disappear at B. Effects: 1. Passenger count is wrong. 2. Agents have to page you (just listen to how many of these there are next time you travel) 3. Baggage manifest has to be checked, when it’s apparent you’re not coming. All of this requires totally unproductive effort on the part of the airline. And it’s not like there’s a surplus of gate agents looking for something to do. Upshot: Flight possibly delayed, inconveniencing (or worse) the other 100+ folks who unfortunately picked the same flight as you. The airlines may have created the scenario, but IMHO using hidden city is beyond the pale of ’savvy traveling’. Air travel may have evolved to resemble bus trips in many ways, but the rules *are* different. Since the judge says they can’t come after you for the money, FF miles seems to be the only lever they have. * generic ‘you’ Brian

Response:

Correct me if I’m wrong, but the airlines are the ones that came up with this pricing structure in the first place, weren’t they?  As opposed as I am to the moral aspects of cheating, I don’t see this as cheating.  I maintain that I have the right to get off the plane anywhere it stops if I feel like it.  Getting back on is my option.

I was looking at the UA web site for mid-October WAS to PAR service. The half-round-trip price is about $285 during that period.  Some of the routings had a connection at FRA.  Out of curiosity, I looked up the WAS to FRA price.  On the very same flights used for WAS-FRA-PAR, the lowest half-round-trip price was $518 if used only for WAS-FRA So I could "miss" the connection at FRA and save 45% on WAS-FRA if they didn’t catch me (which they would). If all I’d wanted was a one-way WAS-FRA, I could pay $2002 for a "legal" one-way ticket or 2*($285)=$570 and throw away three flight segments. FRA prices seem very high until well after Oktoberfest. Sounds like AA on connections through DFW vs travel ending at DFW. Bob C.

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This was featured today as well on NPR evening news – how some of the bigs are trying to go after pax using hidden city tickets now, after previoulsy directing their efforts against TA’s selling these flights.  Their take was that the pax gonna pay one way or the other, if they can’t fight effectively by cancelling FF miles, adding $$ to the CC’s etc, they’ll end up just raising those tickets to make it unattractive.  They said that if hidden cities were made "legal" it would reduce revs by $6B a year, and the carriers aren’t just going to eat it. FH

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I ran across this while goofing off on CNN.com.  The court decision in favour of the traveler who DL felt owed $9000US for hidden city savings was interesting.  If it holds up, the airlines will have to change some things. http://www.cnn.com/2000/TRAVEL/VIEWS/elliott/08/23/index.html

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They said that if hidden cities were made "legal" it would reduce revs by $6B a year, and the carriers aren’t just going to eat it.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but the airlines are the ones that came up with this pricing structure in the first place, weren’t they?  As opposed as I am to the moral aspects of cheating, I don’t see this as cheating.  I maintain that I have the right to get off the plane anywhere it stops if I feel like it.  Getting back on is my option.  I would agree that the airlines have the reciprical right to cancel the remainder of my trip (like my return).  What are they going to do, check my boarding pass as I get off in the "hidden" city and force me to go back to my seat? "And just where do you think you’re going?  Sorry, Mister Mattocks, but you ARE going to LAX today.  You can go hard or you can go easy, but you are going to LAX." "No, really, I just want to grab a quick bite to eat – I’ll come right back!" "We’ve heard that before.  Please sit down before we have to get ugly. We’ll bring you some cardboard to gnaw on." Yeah, that’s going to work.  I predict an increase in "passenger initiated evacuations" if they try.  What the heck, I’ve always wanted to try out one of those inflatable slides anyway. I have never actually done the "hidden city" thing, but then, I don’t pay for my plane tickets – my customers do.  If it came out of my pocket, I might do it myself. Next, they’ll be telling us that we mustn’t avail ourselves of discounted tickets by purchasing in advance, we must pay last minute full fare prices, or they may lose eleventy gazillion dollars per year.  Sorry, they make the rules, we dance.  If they left a loophole, them’s the breaks.  They can fix it, assuming that they still have employees who know how to write. These are the same guys who have no problem if I have to fly through three layovers when I could have had a non-stop, except the triple hop was cheaper.  They could have saved money by flying me straight through, and I would have been happier as well, but NOOOOO!  These are the same guys who have been euphemistically telling the nation with a straight face that putting stranded airline passengers on a bus or train to their destination (and not refunding a penny, natch) is just fine, they are honoring their commitment, because the airlines are now a "complete travel solution."  Bite me. Recently on a trip to California, the local Best Buy chain there offered a $400 discount on anything in the store if the purchaser would sign up for 4 years of MSN service at a certain rate.  They’ve been doing that promotion all over the US.  The thing is, in California there is some obscure little law that allows consumers to cancel such contracts without recourse within a certain period of time, or something like that – I read it in the paper, but didn’t get the whole story.  So, for a couple of days, people were lining up to get their "free" TV’s and air conditioners, signing up for MSN, and then going home and cancelling the contract.  Best Buy dumped that promotion pronto, of course, but they did honor their mistake while it lasted. If the IRS in all their wisdom sees fit to grant tax-free status to people named Bob who are left-handed, and a few hundred million people petition the courts to change their name and start signing their new name funny, are they dishonest?  No, just confused and hard to call to supper. I can’t comprehend the whining attitude of the airlines in this respect. "Aw, you figured out a loophole in our freaky and confusing pricing scheme. You must be punished." A boot to the head for the dunderheads who thought up the idea of blaming the customer for working within their system to his or her own advantage. I just want to be sure I have this straight: Plane late?  Passengers to blame, they don’t show up on time, they board too slowly. Irate employees?  Passengers to blame, they have bad attitudes and they yell at innocent airline employees. Not enough planes?  Passengers to blame, they fly too much. Prices too high?  Passengers to blame, they look for discounts and ways to legally save money. Good idea, airlines.  Poke the bear with a stick.  Now that the entire nation hates you and holds you responsible for the state of commercial airline travel in the US, you should tell us it is all our fault, and then take us to court or send us $9,000 bills for exploiting your own screwy pricing structures.  Why don’t you just hang signs out in the airports that say "Passengers suck, and everything is your own damned fault!"  We peasants like that.  Don’t worry, we’ll eat cake if we have no bread. Yes, "hidden city" ticketing will drive the airlines out of business…and it is about time. Best Regards, Bill Mattocks

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Question:

I watched the Primetime report on Paxil. We all know what sensationalist, alarmist crap many of these media reports are, but here’s what I DID get from the report: 1. I suspect, because it was claimed outright, that the makers of antidepressant drugs haven’t much of a clue how they work. The main evidence claimed was that the drug increases brain weight, so it MUST be getting to the brain. [So does a bullet.] 2. 20-40% of patients on Paxil have significant withdrawal symptoms. Over 100 adolescents committed suicide because of it. These numbers were in internal documents but denied to the public because they were "not statistically significant". . 3. Its main target in many adolescents is headaches . . . yet look at the nature of depression and consider the range of effects any drug must have to fight that many symptoms. SURELY any drug that does THAT many things to our MINDS has a strong potential to be much worse than the hot flashes it’s intended to mitigate in HT patients. 4. Some patients require "months" of agony to withdraw from Paxil. Guess what? IAD resumes in "months". The biggest message I came away with? I’m going to do a lot of reading before I even consider an antidepressant drug. And since the only "cure" I’ ve read about yet for hot flashes is antidepressants, and the "cure" is just a 50% reduction, and hot flashes are virtually guaranteed, I’m going to complete that reading before choosing HT. Now multiply that scenario by the number of SEs of HT, and realize that the fix for many of those SEs is another drug . . . with its own SEs, and that no drug company WILLINGLY admits to SEs. I.P. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was just watching GMA whereby they discussed Paxil and how the withdrawal symptoms have been greatly downplayed.  The side effects can vary from headaches to debilitating electrical shock sensations. Apparently the company producing the drug have this repressed data from their own studies although they state that they have made the physicians aware.  They will be presenting this story tonight on Primetime for those interested.

Response:

I was just watching GMA whereby they discussed Paxil and how the withdrawal symptoms have been greatly downplayed.  The side effects can vary from headaches to debilitating electrical shock sensations. Apparently the company producing the drug have this repressed data from their own studies although they state that they have made the physicians aware.  They will be presenting this story tonight on Primetime for those interested. Sandi

Paxil is about the worst to get off because it has a very short half-life. http://www.citypages.com/databank/23/1141/article10788.asp the 2nd page addresses the half-life issues. HTH Lori

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conviction: Now THAT would worry my wife. I’m irritable enough as it is; is Clarence — and will I become — grouchy because of ADT? Or has ADT made Clarence more pleasant than he was pre-PC by suppressing his emotions? I.P.

When I was a kid, I put my hand on the stove. It was HOT! I’m that sort of person who lives outside the edge. As for being pleasant at any time, my wife has called me "Grumpy" for as long as I can remember. Point is, I’m trying to get in a few days work every week to maintain my "Millionaire" status, branded on me by CentreLink, (our learned Welfare Organisation), 4 yrs ago after I’d been ratting trash cans for sustenance for 3 months due to a slight economic downturn. Believe me, if you get on ADT, you can kiss it all goodbye. I’m starting to feel I’ll end up like Jack Nicholson in "One Flew Over The Cuckoo’s Nest". Androcur Tabs 50mg/day plus a shot of Lucrin quarterly. and revert to the ADT for another 12 months. What a blast!! — "if you can see it coming, head it off at the pass, else put the wagons in a circle" — Please reply to this ng as: — my email adress is 100% faked to prevent proliferation of SPAM!! — Regards — Clarence Crow

Response:

I.P. wrote The real message of my personal dilemma for others in this forum is this: PC and its treatment are EXTREMELY complicated stuff . . . far more so than any doctor has time to explain thoroughly. Read. And read. And read. Those two points are possibly the most important of any when dealing with this bastard.

Oh . . . you mean the CANCER. I.P.

Response:

The real message of my personal dilemma for others in this forum is this: PC and its treatment are EXTREMELY complicated stuff . . . far more so than any doctor has time to explain thoroughly. Read. And read. And read.

Those two points are possibly the most important of any when dealing with this bastard. — Prostate Cancer Survivor (so far), not a doctor Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3bN0M0 PSA  .1  .1  .1  .27  .37  .75 PSA  .34 .22 .15 .21 .32 PSA  .07 .05 .06 Lupron (3 mo) 8/03 (48), 12/03, 4/04 (49), 09/04 (50) non Illegitimi carborundum

Response:

Now THAT would worry my wife. I’m irritable enough as it is; is Clarence — and will I become — grouchy because of ADT? Or has ADT made Clarence more pleasant than he was pre-PC by suppressing his emotions? I.P.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – And a hearty ‘Good Morning’ to you too, Clarence. — Prostate Cancer Survivor (so far), not a doctor Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3bN0M0 PSA  .1  .1  .1  .27  .37  .75 PSA  .34 .22 .15 .21 .32 PSA  .07 .05 .06 Lupron (3 mo) 8/03 (48), 12/03, 4/04 (49), 09/04 (50) non Illegitimi carborundum up off the mat and advised with conviction: Antidepressant treats hot flashes in men taking hormonal therapy for prostate cancer, Mayo study finds Paxil (paroxetine) diminishes hot flashes in men who are receiving hormone therapy for prostate cancer. <snip BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH!! There’s just too many REAMS of doubtful INFORMATION being posted here!! Listen up, all you pussies, I’m a grouchy old buzzard currently on ADT Hormones  prior to RAD.

Response:

Hi All Men don’t have hot flashes, they have power surges!! Jamie

Response:

Hi Sandi…. I know all about the withdrawal symptoms of these SSRI drugs simply because my daughter and my sister suffer from seratonin deficiency and are on them. One on Welbutrin (Zyban) and the other on Effexor. Our ditz of a family doctor told my daughter to just cut them out in two days.  She couldn’t get off the couch due to dizzy spells and nausea!!  I phoned the pharmacy and they were horrified.  Thanks to them, she cut them down VERY gradually and was OK.  It would have happened to my sister as well, had I not gone thru this with my daughter, and warned her. Who should we blame??  Doctors who do not read the literature and drug companies who do not disclose all the details.  All of these drugs are Prozac derivatives (some 30 of them, I believe) and they do have major withdrawal problems.  Paxil has been found to cause suicidal tendencies……which it is supposed to be eliminating. These anti-depressants are very powerful drugs, so use them as your pharmacist directs you to…..they seem to know more.  And check to see if there are any cross-medication problems as well. And thanks for the info on Primetime….I will look for it tonight. Heather

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was just watching GMA whereby they discussed Paxil and how the withdrawal symptoms have been greatly downplayed.  The side effects can vary from headaches to debilitating electrical shock sensations. Apparently the company producing the drug have this repressed data from their own studies although they state that they have made the physicians aware.  They will be presenting this story tonight on Primetime for those interested. Sandi

Response:

The effects you list, side or not, are but a very small part of the menu, and don’t address the severity some people encounter with some effects or the relative commonality of various effects. Some effects take months to show up, some take months to disappear after ADT cessation, and some can be permanent. And even the benefits of ADT are debatable, regardless of the SEs. If I become convinced I can try ADT for a month or two and realisticaly assess its impacts without being committed to long-term impacts, I’ll jump on the bandwagon. My research so far doesn’t strongly support that approach. I consider the distinction between intended effects and SEs vital because generally, intended effects address benefit and SEs address harm. If a treatment doesn’t work, SEs are irrelevant because I’m not trying it. And many trials study only the intended effect — prolonged heartbeat — without considering QOL. IMO, that renders some studies almost moot. The real message of my personal dilemma for others in this forum is this: PC and its treatment are EXTREMELY complicated stuff . . . far more so than any doctor has time to explain thoroughly. Read. And read. And read. I took several pages of typewritten questions to each of the several doctors I consulted about my PC. Every doctor was very pleased and impressed at this, and some said they wished every patient would do it. I.P.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 10. I did, and it makes me wonder . . . Do I want to spend my last years obsessed with juggling chemicals and side effects with a chemically impaired brain, or spend maybe fewer — or maybe more — years being I.P. Freely rather than a nut case? I imagine most people relatively recently diagnosed obsess of the issues of ‘life as I knew it’ vs. ‘life as it will be or may be.’ But, what you really need to concern yourself with is the effects of the drugs.  Calling some effects "intended" and the others as "side" effects is, IMHO, a distraction.  Everything you put in your body has effects.  Every place you put your body has effects.  Every position you put your body in and the duration you keep your body in that position has effects.  Every day of your life, you make decisions on thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of permutations that have effects on your body.  It is silly to consider them intended and side effects.  They are just plane effects.  You do this, and that, that and that happens.  Some effects may be positive.  They may be negative.  They may be positive now and negative later.  Or visa versa. They may be positive and negative concurrently. What you really have to do is list the effects and possible effects of ADT. They are; 1. extended life.  2. temporary impotence.  3. temporary disinterest.  They may also be; 1. permanent impotence, 2. emotional instability, 3. bone mass loss, 4. hot flashes. Then, decide if some of the effects are worth it in lieu of the others. But, with ADT, you have this great option.  Try it for 30, 60, 90 days. If you don’t like it, send it back… no questions asked.

Response:

And a hearty ‘Good Morning’ to you too, Clarence. — Prostate Cancer Survivor (so far), not a doctor Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3bN0M0 PSA  .1  .1  .1  .27  .37  .75 PSA  .34 .22 .15 .21 .32 PSA  .07 .05 .06 Lupron (3 mo) 8/03 (48), 12/03, 4/04 (49), 09/04 (50) non Illegitimi carborundum

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – up off the mat and advised with conviction: Antidepressant treats hot flashes in men taking hormonal therapy for prostate cancer, Mayo study finds Paxil (paroxetine) diminishes hot flashes in men who are receiving hormone therapy for prostate cancer. <snip BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH!! There’s just too many REAMS of doubtful INFORMATION being posted here!! Listen up, all you pussies, I’m a grouchy old buzzard currently on ADT Hormones  prior to RAD. The other day I was in a bad mood, so I downed a couple of Amitryptiline (Endep 25) and they damn near killed me. Apart from my being useless for a day and a half, all my Osteo-Arthritis pains magnified, plus a few new ones emerged. I phoned into the Rad Oncology Dept, but was only able to get a nurse, who advised me to CEASE them immediately, and see my GP about some alternative. — "if you can see it coming, head it off at the pass, else put the wagons in a circle" — Please reply to this ng as: — my email adress is 100% faked to prevent proliferation of SPAM!! — Regards — Clarence Crow

Response:

I was just watching GMA whereby they discussed Paxil and how the withdrawal symptoms have been greatly downplayed.

I wonder who is accused of downplaying the withdrawal symptoms.  My wife’s doctor was very frank about the danger of self-unmedicating with it.  To be sure, he called me to tell me, just in case my wife was in a poor state of mind if and when she decided to do it.

Response:

  Each time I’ve seen that yet another antidepressant fixes hot flashes, several thoughts spring to mind: 1. Depression is serious stuff, and antidepressants are serious meds, so any problem requiring antidepressants must be pretty serious.

  (snip) IP is worried about very little. Maybe he should pop a pill The dosage of antidepressant that is required for hot flash control is far less than the therapeutic dosage for depression. Frex, I was prescribed Effexor, an antidepressant, to control the hot flashes caused by Zoladex. The prescription called for a beginning dosage of just 37.5mg. Something similar exists with Proscar, which is used to treat BPH and PCa, and Propecia, which is used to treat male-pattern baldness. Both are finasteride, but the Propecia dosage is far less than Proscar. As it happens, as I reported elsewhere in the NG, I recently switched from Zoladex to Lupron and have far fewer and milder hot flashes so I elected not to proceed with the Effexor. A SE of that decision is that I have saved mucho dinero; Effexor is expensive. Regards, Steve J

Response:

10. I did, and it makes me wonder . . . Do I want to spend my last years obsessed with juggling chemicals and side effects with a chemically impaired brain, or spend maybe fewer — or maybe more — years being I.P. Freely rather than a nut case?

I imagine most people relatively recently diagnosed obsess of the issues of ‘life as I knew it’ vs. ‘life as it will be or may be.’ But, what you really need to concern yourself with is the effects of the drugs.  Calling some effects "intended" and the others as "side" effects is, IMHO, a distraction.  Everything you put in your body has effects.  Every place you put your body has effects.  Every position you put your body in and the duration you keep your body in that position has effects.  Every day of your life, you make decisions on thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of permutations that have effects on your body.  It is silly to consider them intended and side effects.  They are just plane effects.  You do this, and that, that and that happens.  Some effects may be positive.  They may be negative.  They may be positive now and negative later.  Or visa versa. They may be positive and negative concurrently. What you really have to do is list the effects and possible effects of ADT. They are; 1. extended life.  2. temporary impotence.  3. temporary disinterest.  They may also be; 1. permanent impotence, 2. emotional instability, 3. bone mass loss, 4. hot flashes. Then, decide if some of the effects are worth it in lieu of the others. But, with ADT, you have this great option.  Try it for 30, 60, 90 days.  If you don’t like it, send it back… no questions asked.

Response:

I was just watching GMA whereby they discussed Paxil and how the withdrawal symptoms have been greatly downplayed.  The side effects can vary from headaches to debilitating electrical shock sensations. Apparently the company producing the drug have this repressed data from their own studies although they state that they have made the physicians aware.  They will be presenting this story tonight on Primetime for those interested. Sandi

Response:

up off the mat and advised with conviction: Antidepressant treats hot flashes in men taking hormonal therapy for prostate cancer, Mayo study finds Paxil (paroxetine) diminishes hot flashes in men who are receiving hormone therapy for prostate cancer. <snip

BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH!! There’s just too many REAMS of doubtful INFORMATION being posted here!! Listen up, all you pussies, I’m a grouchy old buzzard currently on ADT Hormones  prior to RAD. The other day I was in a bad mood, so I downed a couple of Amitryptiline (Endep 25) and they damn near killed me. Apart from my being useless for a day and a half, all my Osteo-Arthritis pains magnified, plus a few new ones emerged. I phoned into the Rad Oncology Dept, but was only able to get a nurse, who advised me to CEASE them immediately, and see my GP about some alternative. — "if you can see it coming, head it off at the pass, else put the wagons in a circle" — Please reply to this ng as: — my email adress is 100% faked to prevent proliferation of SPAM!! — Regards — Clarence Crow

Response:

Each time I’ve seen that yet another antidepressant fixes hot flashes, several thoughts spring to mind: 1. Depression is serious stuff, and antidepressants are serious meds, so any problem requiring antidepressants must be pretty serious. 2. Any med that can combat a serious problem must have some pretty serious deliberate effects. If their purpose is to reduce depression, then reducing hot flashes is by definition a SE of the antidepressant. Jeez . . . what are its INTENDED effects? i.e., What changes do they make in my body to achieve their INTENDED effect of reducing depression . . . and obsessive-compulsive disorder, panic disorder, generalized anxiety disorder and social anxiety disorder, among others? 3. Do I want to add those intended effects to the SEs of my meds, which, after all, are the reasons I need antidepressants in the first place? 4. What are the other SEs of the antidepressant, besides reducing the number and severity of hot flashes? 5. How many of the antidepressant’s SEs need additional meds to combat THEM? 6. Worse yet, look up the SEs of these antidepressants. Some of the lists run into scores of effects, many of them serious. 7. When do we stop ingesting exponentially increasing numbers of meds and just get on with our lives and hope we beat the statistics? 8. Who sez the statistics aren’t skewed by all the freaking cancatenated SE meds? 9. And in case that list of questions didn’t give me pause, ask Google about the side effects of Paxil/Prozac . . . and stand back. 10. I did, and it makes me wonder . . . Do I want to spend my last years obsessed with juggling chemicals and side effects with a chemically impaired brain, or spend maybe fewer — or maybe more — years being I.P. Freely rather than a nut case? My wife prefers I.P. Freely. That’s why she married him. And I can think of 647 things more fun to do than sitting here researching medications and SEs. But in case I’m overreacting, I’ll keep reading. The problem with THAT plan is that as I expand my search into an exponentially increasing fan of links, I find more support than opposition to my tentative plan . . . such as the end of this Mayo Clinic reference itself. But maybe that’s a good thing, because the confusion factor shrinks with every new report like this one. Following this Mayo Clinic study leads to scores — hundreds? — of related studies . . . most of them spiralling towards the same dilemma: do we want to maximize our heartbeats with the certainty of SEs, or maximize our QOL with the possibility of many SE-free years, then when (IF?) the PC hits the fan we decide an optimal course based on data at that point? Hell, I just spent half an hour on this, when I couldda been actually WATCHING West Wing . . . or maybe making out with my wife. Now multiply that dilemma by a thousand and add 645 other activities. I suspect that many of us would LOSE free time, not gain it, by opting for HT and its complications. I’ve already spent most of a month researching it, and I haven’t even had one shot or one symptom or one SE yet. I.P.

Antidepressant treats hot flashes in men taking hormonal therapy for prostate cancer, Mayo study finds Paxil (paroxetine) diminishes hot flashes in men who are receiving hormone therapy for prostate cancer, Mayo Clinic researchers report.  An antidepressant medication is an effective treatment to reduce hot flashes in men who are taking hormone therapy for prostate cancer, Mayo Clinic researchers report in the October issue of Mayo Clinic Proceedings. The five-week study followed 18 men who completed the therapy, illustrating that their hot flashes decreased from 6.2 per day to 2.5 per day. Hot flash scores, the frequency multiplied by the severity, decreased in the same period from 10.6 per day to 3 per day. "Newer antidepressants have been proven effective in reducing hot flashes in women but have not been studied in men," says Charles Loprinzi, M.D., Mayo Clinic Division of Medical Oncology and the lead author of the study. "Although hot flashes in men with prostate cancer are well documented," he said, "their treatment has not received as much attention." Some doctors treat hot flashes in men receiving hormonal therapy with a short course of a secondary hormone such as Megestrol acetate. But the Mayo team now expresses some "concern" about these secondary treatments (see below). The study looked at men receiving androgen ablation therapy, also known as hormonal deprivation therapy, or hormonal blockade, which is a well-established treatment for various stages of prostate cancer. The antidepressant tested, paroxetine (Paxil), has been used to treat mental depression, obsessive-compulsive disorder, panic disorder, generalized anxiety disorder and social anxiety disorder, among others. A placebo-controlled trial had previously demonstrated that paroxetine reduced hot flashes in women. The study was conducted between August 2001 and October 2003. Men eligible for the study had to have a history of prostate cancer for which they were receiving androgen ablation therapy. Previous Mayo studies suggested that venlafaxine (Effexor) is effective to treat hot flashes in men undergoing hormonal therapy and that citalopram (Celexa) reduces such hot flashes in women. A commoner, older treatment for hot flashes is Megace (Megestrol acetate). Megace is a progestogen, a man-made form of the female hormone progesterone. Megace is sometimes used to treat prostate cancer and when given with newer hormone blockade drugs like Lupron or Zoladex it reduces hot flashes by up to 90 per cent, according to a Mayo study in 2002. But there have been reports of men whose prostate cancer progressed while taking Megace, In  1999 Oliver Sartor M.D. at Louisiana State University Medical Center, reported "a case in which megestrol acetate (20 mg bid) was administered for symptomatic control of hot flashes in a medically castrated patient with prostate cancer. The patient was subsequently noted to have a rising prostate-specific antigen (PSA) level. Megestrol acetate administration was discontinued, and the PSA level declined. These data indicate that even the low doses of megestrol acetate used for control of hot flashes can be associated with PSA increases in some patients with prostate cancer." This may be especially a concern because, as another study points out, patients whose doctors prescribed Megace for hot flashes have been found to stay on this treatment for three years or more. The authors of the current Mayo study say this therapy "may affect prostate cancer growth and/or cause significant side effects." Patients who do not wish to take an antidepressant for hot flashes need not feel like mavericks. Most patients who experience hot flashes are not interested in adding a medication to suppress them. In a presentation at ASCO in 2001, a team from University of Pennsylvania Cancer Center said that although over 70 per cent of prostate cancer patients they studied complained of "a little" to "some" discomfort during hot flashes, "of those not receiving treatment, fewer than 50 per cent would consider taking medication to treat them." Hot flashes are "a significant side-effect of hormonal treatment," this team concluded, and drugs are available to manage the flashes, but "a significant percentage of patients do not find it as an acceptable option. Therefore, alternative support/educational interventions should also be considered to help patients better understand manage and cope with this treatment side effect. " Others who worked with Dr. Loprinzi on the Paxil study are: Debra Barton, R.N., Ph.D.; Lisa Carpenter; Jeff Sloan, Ph.D.; Paul Novotny; Matthew Gettman, M.D.; and Bradley Christensen, all from Mayo Clinic. knowledge is power – growing old is mandatory – growing wise is optional "Many more men die with prostate cancer than of it. Growing old is invariably fatal. Prostate cancer is only sometimes so." http://community.webtv.net/PALMER_ENT/doc

Response:

Antidepressant treats hot flashes in men taking hormonal therapy for prostate cancer, Mayo study finds Paxil (paroxetine) diminishes hot flashes in men who are receiving hormone therapy for prostate cancer, Mayo Clinic researchers report.  An antidepressant medication is an effective treatment to reduce hot flashes in men who are taking hormone therapy for prostate cancer, Mayo Clinic researchers report in the October issue of Mayo Clinic Proceedings. The five-week study followed 18 men who completed the therapy, illustrating that their hot flashes decreased from 6.2 per day to 2.5 per day. Hot flash scores, the frequency multiplied by the severity, decreased in the same period from 10.6 per day to 3 per day. "Newer antidepressants have been proven effective in reducing hot flashes in women but have not been studied in men," says Charles Loprinzi, M.D., Mayo Clinic Division of Medical Oncology and the lead author of the study. "Although hot flashes in men with prostate cancer are well documented," he said, "their treatment has not received as much attention." Some doctors treat hot flashes in men receiving hormonal therapy with a short course of a secondary hormone such as Megestrol acetate. But the Mayo team now expresses some "concern" about these secondary treatments (see below). The study looked at men receiving androgen ablation therapy, also known as hormonal deprivation therapy, or hormonal blockade, which is a well-established treatment for various stages of prostate cancer. The antidepressant tested, paroxetine (Paxil), has been used to treat mental depression, obsessive-compulsive disorder, panic disorder, generalized anxiety disorder and social anxiety disorder, among others. A placebo-controlled trial had previously demonstrated that paroxetine reduced hot flashes in women. The study was conducted between August 2001 and October 2003. Men eligible for the study had to have a history of prostate cancer for which they were receiving androgen ablation therapy. Previous Mayo studies suggested that venlafaxine (Effexor) is effective to treat hot flashes in men undergoing hormonal therapy and that citalopram (Celexa) reduces such hot flashes in women. A commoner, older treatment for hot flashes is Megace (Megestrol acetate). Megace is a progestogen, a man-made form of the female hormone progesterone. Megace is sometimes used to treat prostate cancer and when given with newer hormone blockade drugs like Lupron or Zoladex it reduces hot flashes by up to 90 per cent, according to a Mayo study in 2002. But there have been reports of men whose prostate cancer progressed while taking Megace, In  1999 Oliver Sartor M.D. at Louisiana State University Medical Center, reported "a case in which megestrol acetate (20 mg bid) was administered for symptomatic control of hot flashes in a medically castrated patient with prostate cancer. The patient was subsequently noted to have a rising prostate-specific antigen (PSA) level. Megestrol acetate administration was discontinued, and the PSA level declined. These data indicate that even the low doses of megestrol acetate used for control of hot flashes can be associated with PSA increases in some patients with prostate cancer." This may be especially a concern because, as another study points out, patients whose doctors prescribed Megace for hot flashes have been found to stay on this treatment for three years or more. The authors of the current Mayo study say this therapy "may affect prostate cancer growth and/or cause significant side effects." Patients who do not wish to take an antidepressant for hot flashes need not feel like mavericks. Most patients who experience hot flashes are not interested in adding a medication to suppress them. In a presentation at ASCO in 2001, a team from University of Pennsylvania Cancer Center said that although over 70 per cent of prostate cancer patients they studied complained of "a little" to "some" discomfort during hot flashes, "of those not receiving treatment, fewer than 50 per cent would consider taking medication to treat them." Hot flashes are "a significant side-effect of hormonal treatment," this team concluded, and drugs are available to manage the flashes, but "a significant percentage of patients do not find it as an acceptable option. Therefore, alternative support/educational interventions should also be considered to help patients better understand manage and cope with this treatment side effect. "

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m a 30 year old male already suffering from hairloss. I was thinking of starting to take antidepressants, but I don’t want to take a drug that will accelerate my already natural hairloss. Has anyone experienced hairloss using the following drugs: 1. Fluvoxamine (Luvox) 2. Fluoxetine (Prozac) 3. Sertraline (Zoloft) 4. Paroxetine (Paxil) 5. Citalopram (Celexa) 6. Clomipramine (Anafranil) 7. Venlafaxine (Effexor) Try Wellbutrin. It causes a larger output of…er…you know. The intensity  will make you forget about hair loss. Do a google search on ASD-med  using words hair and Wellbutrin. Posters have repeatedly reported hair loss,  and or courser hair from WB. .

My hair is growing faster. I think everything is being produced faster. I just started Rispardol and it put a slight damper on everythiung feelings-wise. (.5 mg)

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m a 30 year old male already suffering from hairloss. I was thinking of starting to take antidepressants, but I don’t want to take a drug that will accelerate my already natural hairloss. Has anyone experienced hairloss using the following drugs: 1. Fluvoxamine (Luvox) 2. Fluoxetine (Prozac) 3. Sertraline (Zoloft) 4. Paroxetine (Paxil) 5. Citalopram (Celexa) 6. Clomipramine (Anafranil) 7. Venlafaxine (Effexor) Try Wellbutrin. It causes a larger output of…er…you know. The intensity  will make you forget about hair loss.

Do a google search on ASD-med  using words hair and Wellbutrin. Posters have repeatedly reported hair loss,  and or courser hair from WB. .

Response:

I’m a 30 year old male already suffering from hairloss. I was thinking of starting to take antidepressants, but I don’t want to take a drug that will accelerate my already natural hairloss. Has anyone experienced hairloss using the following drugs:

LOL. Don’t worry about the hairloss. I’ve never heard of SSRIs causing hairloss. Of the ones you listed I would pick fluoxetine because (I’m assuming you’re in the U.S.), it’s the cheapest – you can get generic fluoxetine now because Eli Lilly’s patent has run out. None of them are necessarily better than any other, but they have slightly different side-effect profiles. Zoloft was very friendly side-effects wise for me, so you may want to consider that. However because it has a short half-life, you may get withdrawals (I did). I don’t think anyone has got withdrawals from fluoxetine because of its very long half life. I would leave Effexor as a second option if the SSRI stops working, or doesn’t work at all. It has very bad withdrawals from what I’ve read. And it seems it’s extremely expensive over there (correct me if I’m wrong). — Regards, .

Response:

stimulants like wellbutrin will only make it worse in the long run and wellbutrin is even more likely to give you tardive dyskinesia than the ssris’s – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m a 30 year old male already suffering from hairloss. I was thinking of starting to take antidepressants, but I don’t want to take a drug that will accelerate my already natural hairloss. Has anyone experienced hairloss using the following drugs: 1. Fluvoxamine (Luvox) 2. Fluoxetine (Prozac) 3. Sertraline (Zoloft) 4. Paroxetine (Paxil) 5. Citalopram (Celexa) 6. Clomipramine (Anafranil) 7. Venlafaxine (Effexor) Try Wellbutrin. It causes a larger output of…er…you know. The intensity  will make you forget about hair loss.

– Steroids caused my depression, infertility, breast development and shrunken testicles …prednisone should be used conservatively Eric

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m a 30 year old male already suffering from hairloss. I was thinking of starting to take antidepressants, but I don’t want to take a drug that will accelerate my already natural hairloss. Has anyone experienced hairloss using the following drugs: 1. Fluvoxamine (Luvox) 2. Fluoxetine (Prozac) 3. Sertraline (Zoloft) 4. Paroxetine (Paxil) 5. Citalopram (Celexa) 6. Clomipramine (Anafranil) 7. Venlafaxine (Effexor)

Try Wellbutrin. It causes a larger output of…er…you know. The intensity  will make you forget about hair loss.

Response:

Why not try mirtazapine? I can’t believe how fast my hair has been growing since i started it. My barber has even commented on it.

Response:

Sorry, too depressed to care about hair loss. — Teilhard Knight The Extraterrestrial Who ate my sandwich? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m a 30 year old male already suffering from hairloss. I was thinking of starting to take antidepressants, but I don’t want to take a drug that will accelerate my already natural hairloss. Has anyone experienced hairloss using the following drugs: 1. Fluvoxamine (Luvox) 2. Fluoxetine (Prozac) 3. Sertraline (Zoloft) 4. Paroxetine (Paxil) 5. Citalopram (Celexa) 6. Clomipramine (Anafranil) 7. Venlafaxine (Effexor)

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m a 30 year old male already suffering from hairloss. I was thinking of starting to take antidepressants, but I don’t want to take a drug that will accelerate my already natural hairloss. Has anyone experienced hairloss using the following drugs: 1. Fluvoxamine (Luvox) 2. Fluoxetine (Prozac) 3. Sertraline (Zoloft) 4. Paroxetine (Paxil) 5. Citalopram (Celexa) 6. Clomipramine (Anafranil) 7. Venlafaxine (Effexor)

Shave your head. It’s the *in* thing to do anyway. Lots of girls are liking the "Mr. Clean" look nowadays.

Response:

I’m a 30 year old male already suffering from hairloss. I was thinking of starting to take antidepressants, but I don’t want to take a drug that will accelerate my already natural hairloss. Has anyone experienced hairloss using the following drugs: 3. Sertraline (Zoloft)

No 4. Paroxetine (Paxil)

No 7. Venlafaxine (Effexor)

No Don’t know about the others (yet) Monkeyboy ***risk all, go extreme***

Response:

I’m a 30 year old male already suffering from hairloss. I was thinking of starting to take antidepressants, but I don’t want to take a drug that will accelerate my already natural hairloss. Has anyone experienced hairloss using the following drugs: 1. Fluvoxamine (Luvox) 2. Fluoxetine (Prozac) 3. Sertraline (Zoloft) 4. Paroxetine (Paxil) 5. Citalopram (Celexa) 6. Clomipramine (Anafranil) 7. Venlafaxine (Effexor)

Response:

Question:

Ok what is with Zoloft? I am constantly on the bowel. At this rate I’ll be the next Twiggy! Is it my nerves or what? I have been on Zoloft (100mg) for five years now and I was alright. I never experienced this kind of cramping and explosion before! Since the increase of Zoloft (50mg) all I have to say is, "LORD HELP ME." Anyway, gotta run (you know where!) Zedexa

Response:

OMG I wrote bowel instead of bowl!!!!!!! Guess what I have on my mind! Red Faced and Cramped, Zedexa

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ok what is with Zoloft? I am constantly on the bowel. At this rate I’ll be the next Twiggy! Is it my nerves or what? I have been on Zoloft (100mg) for five years now and I was alright. I never experienced this kind of cramping and explosion before! Since the increase of Zoloft (50mg) all I have to say is, "LORD HELP ME." Anyway, gotta run (you know where!) Zedexa

Response:

Ok what is with Zoloft? I am constantly on the bowel. At this rate I’ll be the next Twiggy! Is it my nerves or what? I have been on Zoloft (100mg) for five years now and I was alright. I never experienced this kind of cramping and explosion before! Since the increase of Zoloft (50mg) all I have to say is, "LORD HELP ME." Anyway, gotta run (you know where!) Zedexa

I’m so sorry you aren’t feeling well Zedexa!  I wish I could help you with the side effects of Zoloft, but I was only on it for one or two days, I think, and that was 5 yrs. ago.  I hope you feel better soon! Hugs, Di

Response:

That’s always awful to suffer through, I’m sorry to hear your reacting that way!  Since you’ve been on the Zoloft and this was just an increase, hopefully it should clear up in a few days.  Maybe you have a stomach bug? The cramping sounds like it could be. Take care of yourself and drink plenty of fluids!  :) -Alan — Alan Derrick

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ok what is with Zoloft? I am constantly on the bowel. At this rate I’ll be the next Twiggy! Is it my nerves or what? I have been on Zoloft (100mg) for five years now and I was alright. I never experienced this kind of cramping and explosion before! Since the increase of Zoloft (50mg) all I have to say is, "LORD HELP ME." Anyway, gotta run (you know where!) Zedexa I’m so sorry you aren’t feeling well Zedexa!  I wish I could help you with the side effects of Zoloft, but I was only on it for one or two days, I think, and that was 5 yrs. ago.  I hope you feel better soon! Hugs, Di

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Hi Zedexa, I was very worried about this possible side effect, since my trigger on the anxiety was bowel related problems.  What I have done and been very religious about, is make sure I get loads of fiber in the diet.  I take care of this easily with All Bran cereal (you have to mix it up with another cereal you will actually like, or put other stuff in it).  I noticed a slight "loosening" of things when I began the zoloft, but have not had any D (knock on toilet bowl).  I’ve read that the bowel is a muscle, and in order to work it out, we need the fiber in there so it has something to clamp down on.  Maybe this will help. Mary

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That’s always awful to suffer through, I’m sorry to hear your reacting that way!  Since you’ve been on the Zoloft and this was just an increase, hopefully it should clear up in a few days.  Maybe you have a stomach bug? The cramping sounds like it could be. Take care of yourself and drink plenty of fluids!  :) -Alan — Alan Derrick Ok what is with Zoloft? I am constantly on the bowel. At this rate I’ll be the next Twiggy! Is it my nerves or what? I have been on Zoloft (100mg) for five years now and I was alright. I never experienced this kind of cramping and explosion before! Since the increase of Zoloft (50mg) all I have to say is, "LORD HELP ME." Anyway, gotta run (you know where!) Zedexa I’m so sorry you aren’t feeling well Zedexa!  I wish I could help you with the side effects of Zoloft, but I was only on it for one or two days, I think, and that was 5 yrs. ago.  I hope you feel better soon! Hugs, Di

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Ok what is with Zoloft? I am constantly on the bowel. At this rate I’ll be the next Twiggy! Is it my nerves or what? I have been on Zoloft (100mg) for five years now and I was alright. I never experienced this kind of cramping and explosion before! Since the increase of Zoloft (50mg) all I have to say is, "LORD HELP ME." Anyway, gotta run (you know where!) Zedexa

Hi Zedexa, Zoloft, like all SSRIs, alters the movement of serotonin. While its target is the small amount used by the brain, it also affects serotonin pathways in the body. Most serotonin is actually made/used by the gut (about 95%), another few percent is found in blood vessels and the skin also contains some, especially if its injured (burns/sunburn/infection etc). It should settle down. If you have upped the dose by 50mg in one go, then you might want to cut back and ramp it up more slowly. However, get your doc to check on this, it may be something else. Probably not, but you never know. And if it becomes an ongoing problem, then  consider changing to a tricyclic. But, be warned, they usually cause the opposite effect – constipation. Good luck                                               Zu

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Question:

I am about to go through a divorce and gosh who would have guessed, I have lost about 30 lbs in a month and a 1/2, I am sad when I think how much I will miss my wife and kids and have lost the desire to do many things I normally like. My Neuro-psychiatrist wants me to start taking Effexor XR for my depression. My question is this, who wouldn’t be depressed going through this? Am I really clinically depressed or just temporarily in this state because of my circumstances?? How do you know?? Thanks

Hey John, I went through separation, divorce and depression a few years ago. At the time I was seeing a counselor/therapist who helped me work through a lot of the situational depression I had. She told me time and again that if I ever felt like it was too much for me to handle on my own I could try meds. At that time I had a lot of reservations about it and I turned her down. It was hard, too. I remember feeling like nothing would ever matter again, and why even bother? Eventually though with her help (and I was *very* fortunate to have found such an excellent therapist for me), I realized that what *did* matter was me. I ended up discovering this whole other person inside myself I’d never known was there. The thing was, I don’t think this new me could have come into being without me having spent a lot of time alone. Time alone which left me lonely and sad and wishing for someone – anyone – to be with. I don’t know if the meds would have helped me get through it better than I did on my own, but in the end I proved to myself that I could do it and in many ways have been happier than ever before. Now, two years later, I’m on Effexor XR after being diagnosed with major depression last year. (I know that sounds odd after just saying I’m happier with me than I’ve ever been, but it snuck up on me.) The depression manifested itself so physically this time though that I figured it had to be a checmical imbalance so I tried meds. I’m not too thrilled with how they’ve worked out for me. It’s been nine months since I tried the first one, and I’ve been on three others since then with only marginal relief. Personally, if I was experiencing the frustration and despair I’ve had recently over all the issues surrounding me and meds at the same time I was going through a divorce I’d probably be a freaking wreck. Add to that some of the horror stories I’ve seen on the web regarding Effexor withdrawal (which I have yet to try – not looking forward to that), and I’m very tempted to urge you not to try meds, or at least try something else before Effexor. Especially knowing your depression is situational. With meds, not only does it sometimes take some time to find the right one, but during that time you may deal with some pretty nasty side effects, too. There’s a good chance that with good counseling you could recover from a situational depression faster than it might take to get relief with meds. Just my 2 cents. Good luck with whatever you decide. It does get easier. Take care. Julia

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I am about to go through a divorce and gosh who would have guessed, I have lost about 30 lbs in a month and a 1/2, I am sad when I think how much I will miss my wife and kids and have lost the desire to do many things I normally like. My Neuro-psychiatrist wants me to start taking Effexor XR for my depression. My question is this, who wouldn’t be depressed going through this? Am I really clinically depressed or just temporarily in this state because of my circumstances?? How do you know?? Thanks

What difference does it make?? If you are throwing up blood, and the doctor says you have an ulcer, and he wants you to take some medication that might help you stop throwing up blood.  What should you do??  How does the doctor really know that you have an ulcer.  What if it’s just a reaction to that really bad meal you had last night. Get the point??  While it may be interesting and even important to think about the causes, ramifications, and validity of being diagnosed clinically depressed.  If you are throwing up blood, wouldn’t it make some sense to try a medication that the doctor thinks might help that kind of thing.  Antidepressant medications are symptomatic treatments.  Like asprin, they reduce fever, they don’t prevent colds or speed one’s recovery from a cold.  And as you perhaps intimate, fever can be a biological mechanism for getting rid of an infection, thus asprin can prevent a fever but prolong a cold, the opposite of making one "better". I mean, it’s entirely up to you.  Some people describe a little post-nasal nose bleed as throwing up blood. I personally don’t think every dip in the road should be responded to with ECT any more then I think it should require medication.  Some people have bad reactions to effexor.  It’s not like taking an asprin.  (Did I just mix my asprin metaphors??)  Sometimes feeling down is the appropriate and needed reaction/feeling that is required for one to process and move through their grief.  Only you know your family history, your history, your current pain, where you would like to be, etcetera. Unh, welcome to ASD.  Home of the non-answer answer.   Sincerely Stewart — The Metaphor Man  *and*  The Great Defender of the Self (remove the SPAMBLOCK) Please send me an e-mail copy of your posted response.

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Hi John, Welcome to ASD.  I am by no stretch of the imagination a "professional". However, I was/am in a similar situation.  I’ve been separated for about a year and a half, with the actual divorce in the works now.  Prior to the separation when things were really bad I was diagnosed with "Situational Depression".  I have been taking meds since then and have been doing fine. I hope to get off the meds once all this is behind me.  Hopefully you too are situational and things will get better with time. Sorry I don’t have any magic words but I wanted you to know that you are not alone. Be Well Tom posted and emailed

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I am about to go through a divorce and gosh who would have guessed, I have lost about 30 lbs in a month and a 1/2, I am sad when I think how much I will miss my wife and kids and have lost the desire to do many things I normally like. My Neuro-psychiatrist wants me to start taking Effexor XR for my depression. My question is this, who wouldn’t be depressed going through this? Am I really clinically depressed or just temporarily in this state because of my circumstances?? How do you know?? Thanks Before you buy.

Response:

I do believe you are going through a phase, i was divorced too, and i remember not wanting to do anything. I never saw a DR. but didn’t feel i needed to. It’s a horse that takes some tome to get over it’s kick – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am about to go through a divorce and gosh who would have guessed, I have lost about 30 lbs in a month and a 1/2, I am sad when I think how much I will miss my wife and kids and have lost the desire to do many things I normally like. My Neuro-psychiatrist wants me to start taking Effexor XR for my depression. My question is this, who wouldn’t be depressed going through this? Am I really clinically depressed or just temporarily in this state because of my circumstances?? How do you know?? Thanks Before you buy.

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Question:

One side effect of having spasmodic torticollis which I had not appreciated was the difficulty in finding spectacles. Like many people of my age – 48 – I have difficulty reading without spectacles and I have been short-sighted since I was a teenager.  So I thought I would try varifocal lenses to give me the best of both worlds.

I use varifocal lenses but just with the computer. I haven’t had any problem. I have S.T.,B.T.W. However I found these were very blurred.  An optician friend at the bridge club explained why.  Because of my neck movements I am often looking through the side of my spectacle lenses.  Not all the area of a varifocal lens is intended to be used – just the middle funnel.

Your friend’s explanation seem to be on the mark.  One should not move too much (side to side) with these spectacles.  I have Essential Tremor and only when I purposefully exaggerate the movements will my vision will blur.  Please keep in mind that some of the medications you take for Dystonia will affect your eye site precariously.   Has anyone found the same problem and solved it.  I would love to know. Thanks.

Regards, Gene

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One side effect of having spasmodic torticollis which I had not appreciated was the difficulty in finding spectacles. Like many people of my age – 48 – I have difficulty reading without spectacles and I have been short-sighted since I was a teenager.  So I thought I would try varifocal lenses to give me the best of both worlds. However I found these were very blurred.  An optician friend at the bridge club explained why.  Because of my neck movements I am often looking through the side of my spectacle lenses.  Not all the area of a varifocal lens is intended to be used – just the middle funnel. Has anyone found the same problem and solved it.  I would love to know. Thanks. — David Everett

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Question:

In _The Essential Guide to Psychiatric Drugs_, Jack Gorman says that it has been reported that Klonopin causes depression.  Anyone have any experience with this side effect?

This all gets so confusing to me as I once was on K alone but can’t say that that caused my depression.  I read alot about this side effect and guess I never paid attention for direct cause and effect. What about those taking it with an SSRI, for depression (the thought being that the SSRI might "insulate" against this potential side effect)?

I take a low dose of PAxil and now Xanax as well and things don’t really feel that much different to me.  I have my good and bad days.  I have never heard of taking an SRI to counteract a benzo – have heard the reverse tho. I certainly wouldn’t take an SRI for that – as there are many other benzos to choose from without this noted side effect. Gwen

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In _The Essential Guide to Psychiatric Drugs_, Jack Gorman says that it has been reported that Klonopin causes depression.  Anyone have any experience with this side effect?  What about those taking it with an SSRI, for depression (the thought being that the SSRI might "insulate" against this potential side effect)? Thanks for your help. Matt

I have heard that Klonopin can aggravate depression in a "small" percentage of people.  People have also reported depression, as a side effect to placebo.  Sometimes as much as 3%.  So without knowing the percentages of reported depression with Klonopin vs. placebo, it is almost the same as having no information at all. I was on an SSRI, before ever taking Klonopin.  I noted less depression after taking it, as my depression was situational.  I was depressed because I was having 3-4 full blown panic attacks per day.  When the PA’s stopped, from taking the Klonopin, my mood improved dramatically. — Kiesha Van Dyke To e-mail, remove ** from address.

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I was on an SSRI, before ever taking Klonopin.  I noted less depression after taking it, as my depression was situational.  I was depressed because I was having 3-4 full blown panic attacks per day.  When the PA’s stopped, from taking the Klonopin, my mood improved dramatically. —

I have to agree with you here, Kiesha.  I didn’t go the SSRI first route – but being out of control on the panic was certainly depressing as hell and I truly believe if the docs had increased the benzos as first choice – I wouldn’t be saddled with Paxil now.  I know from my experience that being free of panic makes me jubillant beyond beleif.  I wish more docs tried THAT route first before jumping on the SSRI bandwagon. Gwen

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In _The Essential Guide to Psychiatric Drugs_, Jack Gorman says that it has been reported that Klonopin causes depression.  Anyone have any experience with this side effect?  What about those taking it with an SSRI, for depression (the thought being that the SSRI might "insulate" against this potential side effect)? Thanks for your help. Matt

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Hi Matt – Well – I think Gorman may be right.  My experience has been that adding an SSRI *has* eliminated the depression I felt when taking Klonopin (4-4.5mg/day) alone. (Added Zoloft).  This is for primary social phobia, secondary mild depression.  I think the Klonopin *may* aggrevate my mild depression some. Zoloft 50mg + K worked well except side effects – VERY tired and sex side effects from Zoloft. Nardil 45mg + K worked well too – less side effects, except add in food restrictions. Luvox + K felt awful. JR

Response:

In _The Essential Guide to Psychiatric Drugs_, Jack Gorman says that it has been reported that Klonopin causes depression.  Anyone have any experience with this side effect?  What about those taking it with an SSRI, for depression (the thought being that the SSRI might "insulate" against this potential side effect)? Thanks for your help. Matt

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Hi Matt – Well – I think Gorman may be right.  My experience has been that adding an SSRI *has* eliminated the depression I felt when taking Klonopin (4-4.5mg/day) alone. (Added Zoloft).  This is for primary social phobia, secondary mild depression.  I think the Klonopin *may* aggrevate my mild depression some. Zoloft 50mg + K worked well except side effects – VERY tired and sex side effects from Zoloft. Nardil 45mg + K worked well too – less side effects, except add in food restrictions. Luvox + K felt awful. JR   JR

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In _The Essential Guide to Psychiatric Drugs_, Jack Gorman says that it has been reported that Klonopin causes depression.  Anyone have any experience with this side effect?  What about those taking it with an SSRI, for depression (the thought being that the SSRI might "insulate" against this potential side effect)? Thanks for your help. Matt

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