Question:

Here’s where I am — after 10-plus years of sinus problems (which escalated to about 6 infections in the last 8-9 months), my family physician finally sent me to an ENT.  ENT sent me for CT scan and allergy testing.  CT scans showed cysts (first thought they were polyps, but the report says cysts) filling 2/3 of left maxillary and 1/2 (back half) of the left (largest) sphenoid.  There was also thickening in the sphenoid, bottom of left frontal and at the opening (well, where there’s *supposed* to be an opening) to the right maxillary.  Ethmoids were mostly clear with just a little cloudiness in some small areas.  Dx: chronic sinusitis.  Fortunately, I am not in the midst of an acute attack just now. The allergy testing, about which I briefly posted last week, was negative (except for the histamine control).  In addition, the IgG/A/M bloodwork that the allergist/immunologist sent me in for has, so far, come up negative — but that’s only the ‘M’ part.  The jury is still out on the IgG/A portions — the lab screwed up and forgot to test for these.  Had more blood drawn for this early this past week, and I should have the results this week before my visit to the ENT on this coming Thursday to talk about surgery. At the moment I am ‘managing’ the sinus problems with Claritan D (although the ENT says he may have me try a combo decongestant and mucus thinner instead, since the allergy testing was negative and I may not need the antihistamine part, and certainly don’t need the sleepiness it brings).  I’m also using Singulair and Nasonex and several OTC things — saline spray, Xlear (sp?), nasal irrigation (still working on the head positioning, Dr. Grossan — thanks for your suggestion!), papaya enzymes, etc., etc.  I drink lots of water and actively stay as far from any triggers (to the non-allergenic rhinitis that complicates things) as possible. I do know that when I had to go off the Claritan D before allergy testing that I started with the problems again.  Awful headaches — on the right side, and also in back of my eyes and head.  And even now, with all this care, I still have headaches at various times.  Some days, I still have lots of drainage.  I know that the small-to-almost-nonexistant opening into the right maxillary is definitely part of the problem.  A couple of weeks ago, the whole side of my face was throbbing — finally I heard a long, drawn-out "sqeeeeeeeeak" (loud — like someone had stepped on a dog toy or something — even my husband heard it) and the headache disappeared. So I know at least a portion of this is the dreaded vacuum effect. Unfortunately, all my manipulations cannot quarantee that I can open it at any given time — even after all my various methods are tried. Once the headache starts, I’m out for the count unless I get lucky. Sometimes it lasts for days (even through the night). I am so tired (fatigue has been my middle name for years), and I am about 95-percent decided on surgery sometime in early October.  I’ve done a lot of reading here and other places on the risks and rates of recovery, and I’ve read tons of post-surgery stories (both good and bad) and have spoken with people who have had FESS (and had good outcomes).  I’m putting together a list of questions for the ENT appointment.  I’ll be taking my husband along so that he can ask questions and listen to the answers as well.  I believe that the ENT wants to avoid too much work in the sphenoid since the nerves or arteries or whatever are so close to some of the thickened portion, but at this point he believes that getting rid of the cyst is possible.  He would also remove the cyst in the left maxillary and enlarge the opening to the right.  Fortunately I have a beautifully straight septum which requires no work whatsoever.  Thank heaven for small favors. Is there anything that, in the experience of those here, is important to ask at this meeting to discuss surgery or that you should have asked but didn’t?  Also, any suggestions on building up your body/health before surgery?  I start back to work in September after five years home with my son — but fortunately I’ll be working with my husband, and he’s pretty lenient (if he knows what’s good for him) about the time I need to take off to recover.  I sure would appreciate any input on this.

Response:

On 4 Aug 2001 15:32:52 -0700, studio…@net-magic.net (LSM) wrote:

 ….. Is there anything that, in the experience of those here, is important to ask at this meeting to discuss surgery or that you should have asked but didn’t?  Also, any suggestions on building up your body/health before surgery?  I start back to work in September after five years home with my son — but fortunately I’ll be working with my husband, and he’s pretty lenient (if he knows what’s good for him) about the time I need to take off to recover.  I sure would appreciate any input on this.

I think it is important to evaluate the experience and reputation of the otolaryngologist. I would look for someone whosr primary specialty has been sinus surgery for many years. A University may be one place to look.

Response:

Question:

: You could be having an allergic reaction to the medication.  This is : something you should report to both your doctor and pharmacist (IMO a : pharmacist tends to do a better job of keeping track of the : medications you shouldn’t take than a doctor does). : There should be no direct problem from abruptly stopping Accolate, : however Rule #2 for asthmatics is: Never stop taking a medication : without checking with a doctor (unless this is covered by an ‘Asthma : Action Plan’). Except in this case, there is the potential for not stopping to be life-threatening.  I believe that the rule is if you get an allergic reaction to some medication, especially things like antibiotics, that you stop the medication first and find a doctor next, the speed depending on how serious the reaction is. : You should try to find a walk-in clinic in your area and consult with : a doctor. I agree entirely, except that I think that it would be a good idea to stop taking the medication if you suspect that it is causing an allergic reaction, and then get your hands on a doctor ASAP. Cheers, Kin Hoong

Response:

If you break out in an itchy blotchy rash after each dose then you should clearly stop the drug. There is no danger inherent to stopping Accolate abruptly other than worsening asthma. If you don’t feel that you were responding tot he Accolate than this should not be a problem. Keep taking the Zyrtec, it may be the only thing stopping a more severe reaction. If your asthma worsens contact your doctor immediately. — Good Luck, CBI, M.D. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Folks, I need some information.  Both my pharmacist and physician are unavailable for another two weeks [the health center is closed for the XMas holidays]. I have been taking Accolate for just over 2 weeks now; to be honest, I haven’t noticed a significant change in my asthma that can definitely be attributed to the Accolate as opposed to just getting over the stupid virus that I have had; though being sick means judging how well the underlying asthma *itself* is doing has been a challenge [respiratory infections are an almost guaranteed flare-er of my asthma]. HOWEVER, that is not what concerns me.  Last night for the third time or so that I have taken my dose I have broken out in a blotch rash/hives and been *severely* itchy, especiall on my legs.  Last night I finally clued into the fact that I think the Accolate is what is causing it — it started within a half hour of taking it, and the only thing I had was it and some water; nothing else that I can think of could possible have triggered the reaction.  I could have handled the headache that many people get; this kind of itchiness is intolerable. So, I haven’t taken my dose this morning [I am pretending I forgot ], and I want to stop taking it.  But I need to know if it is safe to stop taking it abruptly or not.  So: IS IT SAFE??  I’ve been on 20mg twice a day since the 11th of December, and have rarely forgotten to take it. FWIW, I am also on Zyrtec [aka Reactine in Canada; and have been for about 5 years] 10mg/d, Pulmicort Turbuhaler 1600mcg/d [haven't come off the increased dose from being sick yet; have been on this dose basically since the week before the US Thanksgiving], and Bricanyl as required [in the last few days, not needed at all].  I have been on deltasone 3X in the last month and a half, most recently a 40mg/d X3d, 20mg/d X3d, 10mg/d X3 days taper regimine [finished under week ago]; I have a burst dose Rx for deltasone [40mg/d X 3 d] if I need to use it, which I am allowed to use. So, folks, is it safe to come off of the Accolate abruptly, and if so/not, what should I look for if anything if I do?  I am assuming my asthma may worsen some, but I think I can manage that ok [I am allowed to flex my medications to a certain degree]. Thanks for your help!! SW.

Response:

HOWEVER, that is not what concerns me.  Last night for the third time or so that I have taken my dose I have broken out in a blotch rash/hives and been *severely* itchy, especiall on my legs.  Last night I finally clued into the fact that I think the Accolate is what is causing it — it started within a half hour of taking it, and the only thing I had was it and some water; nothing else that I can think of could possible have triggered the reaction.  I could have handled the headache that many people get; this kind of itchiness is intolerable.

You could be having an allergic reaction to the medication.  This is something you should report to both your doctor and pharmacist (IMO a pharmacist tends to do a better job of keeping track of the medications you shouldn’t take than a doctor does). There should be no direct problem from abruptly stopping Accolate, however Rule #2 for asthmatics is: Never stop taking a medication without checking with a doctor (unless this is covered by an ‘Asthma Action Plan’). You should try to find a walk-in clinic in your area and consult with a doctor.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Folks, I need some information.  Both my pharmacist and physician are unavailable for another two weeks [the health center is closed for the XMas holidays]. I have been taking Accolate for just over 2 weeks now; to be honest, I haven’t noticed a significant change in my asthma that can definitely be attributed to the Accolate as opposed to just getting over the stupid virus that I have had; though being sick means judging how well the underlying asthma *itself* is doing has been a challenge [respiratory infections are an almost guaranteed flare-er of my asthma]. HOWEVER, that is not what concerns me.  Last night for the third time or so that I have taken my dose I have broken out in a blotch rash/hives and been *severely* itchy, especiall on my legs.  Last night I finally clued into the fact that I think the Accolate is what is causing it — it started within a half hour of taking it, and the only thing I had was it and some water; nothing else that I can think of could possible have triggered the reaction.  I could have handled the headache that many people get; this kind of itchiness is intolerable. So, I haven’t taken my dose this morning [I am pretending I forgot ], and I want to stop taking it.  But I need to know if it is safe to stop taking it abruptly or not.  So: IS IT SAFE??  I’ve been on 20mg twice a day since the 11th of December, and have rarely forgotten to take it. FWIW, I am also on Zyrtec [aka Reactine in Canada; and have been for about 5 years] 10mg/d, Pulmicort Turbuhaler 1600mcg/d [haven't come off the increased dose from being sick yet; have been on this dose basically since the week before the US Thanksgiving], and Bricanyl as required [in the last few days, not needed at all].  I have been on deltasone 3X in the last month and a half, most recently a 40mg/d X3d, 20mg/d X3d, 10mg/d X3 days taper regimine [finished under week ago]; I have a burst dose Rx for deltasone [40mg/d X 3 d] if I need to use it, which I am allowed to use. So, folks, is it safe to come off of the Accolate abruptly, and if so/not, what should I look for if anything if I do?  I am assuming my asthma may worsen some, but I think I can manage that ok [I am allowed to flex my medications to a certain degree]. SW.

First, I’m not a doctor, but a well informed asthmatic taking Singulair (sometimes), inhaled steroids (just switching from Vanceril DS to Pulmicort; etc. Antileukotrienes like Accolate and Singulair don’t help all asthmatics, maybe half or 2/3. Your main preventor drug is your inhaled steroids, Pulmicort; and 1600ug is a very High Dose. My advice would be to try stopping Accolate for a while; any drug that can cause an allergic reaction like you described could be dangerous; and if it doesn’t help why take it.[The nice thing about asthma drugs is you can tell whether or not they are working] You may want to try Accolate again after your exacerbation is under control; or try the better drug Singulair. Here’s the Prescribing Info on Accolate: http://www.accolateinfo.com/ http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/zafirlukast.htm zafirlukast Excerpt: "Contraindications: Zafirlukast is contraindicated in patients who are hypersensitive  to zafirlukast or any of its inactive ingredients." My personal experience with a similar drug Singulair is initially it increased my personal best peak flow by 10%. Later I noticed I seemed to have signs of fatigue, and it doesn’t seem to help at all during exacerbations. So now I take it about every other day. It seems to work best when my asthma is relatively well controlled. I have recently had to switch to a higher strength steroid inhaler (Pulmicort) I had hoped the antileukotriene would be a steroid sparing drug, but it doesn’t seem to be the case; tho I think it still helps. Ellis

Response:

Folks, I need some information.  Both my pharmacist and physician are unavailable for another two weeks [the health center is closed for the XMas holidays]. I have been taking Accolate for just over 2 weeks now; to be honest, I haven’t noticed a significant change in my asthma that can definitely be attributed to the Accolate as opposed to just getting over the stupid virus that I have had; though being sick means judging how well the underlying asthma *itself* is doing has been a challenge [respiratory infections are an almost guaranteed flare-er of my asthma]. HOWEVER, that is not what concerns me.  Last night for the third time or so that I have taken my dose I have broken out in a blotch rash/hives and been *severely* itchy, especiall on my legs.  Last night I finally clued into the fact that I think the Accolate is what is causing it — it started within a half hour of taking it, and the only thing I had was it and some water; nothing else that I can think of could possible have triggered the reaction.  I could have handled the headache that many people get; this kind of itchiness is intolerable. So, I haven’t taken my dose this morning [I am pretending I forgot ], and I want to stop taking it.  But I need to know if it is safe to stop taking it abruptly or not.  So: IS IT SAFE??  I’ve been on 20mg twice a day since the 11th of December, and have rarely forgotten to take it. FWIW, I am also on Zyrtec [aka Reactine in Canada; and have been for about 5 years] 10mg/d, Pulmicort Turbuhaler 1600mcg/d [haven't come off the increased dose from being sick yet; have been on this dose basically since the week before the US Thanksgiving], and Bricanyl as required [in the last few days, not needed at all].  I have been on deltasone 3X in the last month and a half, most recently a 40mg/d X3d, 20mg/d X3d, 10mg/d X3 days taper regimine [finished under week ago]; I have a burst dose Rx for deltasone [40mg/d X 3 d] if I need to use it, which I am allowed to use. So, folks, is it safe to come off of the Accolate abruptly, and if so/not, what should I look for if anything if I do?  I am assuming my asthma may worsen some, but I think I can manage that ok [I am allowed to flex my medications to a certain degree]. Thanks for your help!! SW.

Response:

Question:

Anorexia is one of the more pronounced side effects of Prozac, and the manufacturer seriously was or is trying to get it indicated for weight control!! It was prescribed to me for depression when my family had major problems, but it just happened to be just what I needed for my migraines. That was like I said, maybe 16-18 years ago. I have no idea whether it’s STILL helping my migraines, but I’ve been to MHNI twice since then, and nobody’s ever questioned or reconsidered the Prozac…   But by now, for all I know, it might be useless for my migraines, but if I stop taking it, my personality gets kinda dark and sad, because I’m naturally serotonin deficient, so maybe yes, it’s working on SOMETHING? Same for the Elavil – I’ve been taking it since 1993. It helps with the serotonin situation, but it really helps me sleep, too, and I need that, because of my severe sleep apnea, and it’s nonaddictive, so it’s better than a sleeping pill. Plus, Elavil is indicated in other painful conditions, one of which I have: Interstitial cystitis. But Elavil is the biggest culprit in the dry eyes that prevent my eye doctor from giving me the contacts I want. But it’s a good drug, and I’m glad I have it. And when I run out of Flexeril, I’ll take half an Elavil in a pinch. They’re very similar. As for weight, I’ve heard that Elavil is supposed to put weight ON, but frankly, I’ve got so many drugs in my personal stew that I couldn’t begin to tell you which ones are driving my weight one way or the other, unless there’s been a big change in my drugs recently, like switching from Depakote to Topamax 6 months ago, and promptly losing 10 pounds. The BuSpar I don’t remember very well, as far as migraines are concerned… MHNI prescribed it during another bad-family period – my dad had died and I was still freaked about it, and I think the BuSpar was more for keeping ME off the ceiling, than to help with my headpain. It’s a great little drug, that doesn’t wrack you up with side effects. I think it kinda has one foot in the antidepressant category, and the other foot in the tranquilizer category. Ginnie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Really, prozac caused weight loss for you?  Seems funny since most of the other antidepressants seem to do just the opposite.  I gained ten pounds on Paxil. Is any of this helping with your migraines? Thanks! Michelle

Response:

I have used Topopmax, Nortriptelyne and Prozac. Topomax worked except for dizzyness, Nortriptylene weight gain and Prozak nothing. Other high powered ones also caused extreme dizzyness amd nuaseau. If you can handle Topomax or Amitriptylene they might help. A good Neurologist is best way to go. Dr. Ken Moore is great out of Chicago area. This is his only specialialty. He is also covered by BCBS. http://www.helpforheadaches.com/ Even if you are from out of state he may be of help. 70% of his patients are from out of state. Jim

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all, I am looking at possibly going back on an antidepressant.  I’ve been on Paxil in the past and Effexor.  My experiences with Paxil and Effexor were both pretty good, but I did gain weight on the Paxil.  I wonder if people who have been on any of the antidepressants can share their experiences with them, i.e. did it help any of your migraines, chronic daily headaches, and did you experience side effects (and what were they)? The meds that come to my mind are Paxil, Effexor, Zoloft, Celexa, and Buspar.  Any others?  I’m not looking at diving into a heavy duty antidepressant…something mild is just fine.  Any comments, experiences, etc. are welcome. Thanks! Michelle

Response:

Priscilla, did you notice any weight gain with the Celexa and do you use any triptans as an abortive?  I noticed on the Celexa site that they warn against using some of the triptans…didn’t know if that was an issue for you?

I think I gained a bit of weight during the time I was on Zoloft (my dress size went up), but then I don’t watch my weight and generally eat what makes my body feel good, without attention to calories.  I don’t own bathroom scales. There’s no real problem taking triptans with SSRIs.  I use Imitrex, and I’ve taken it while on Prozac, Zoloft, and Celexa.  It does a very different thing from what the SSRIs do. Sleepiness for me at night would be very welcome…during the day would not.

This is during the day.  Can’t sit/lie down to read a book without zzzzzzing out.  At bedtime, however, I often need help from melatonin or Benedryl. Priscilla — "As you get older, physical deterioration is offset by a larger world view and a deeper sense of gratitude."  Diane Keaton

Response:

Hi all, I am looking at possibly going back on an antidepressant.  I’ve been on Paxil in the past and Effexor.  My experiences with Paxil and Effexor were both pretty good, but I did gain weight on the Paxil.  I wonder if people who have been on any of the antidepressants can share their experiences with them, i.e. did it help any of your migraines, chronic daily headaches, and did you experience side effects (and what were they)?

I’ve tried both tricyclics and SSRIs for ordinary migraines in the misty distant past.  The tricyclics seemed to help quite a bit, but had really weird side effects.  The SSRIs had barely-tolerable side effects (all different, I tried a bunch) and had just-barely perceptible effects on my headaches, I could never be sure if they were helping. Now I have chronic daily headaches, and Topomax is keeping them partly under control (I’m still in constant pain, but between the Topomax and the painkillers, it’s not quite so bad all the time.  Except when it flares up a few times a week.)  I tried adding a tricyclic antidepressant (25mg nortriptyline) as a preventative, and also for the antidepressant effects, because the Topomax and chronic pain together are awfully depressing.   I was only on the Nortriptyline for 3 days, because the side effects were so bad.  I used to describe my tricyclic (and a lot of other medication side effects) as "dizziness," or "motion sickness," even though it was oddly unlike vertigo.  It was like hallucinating, only with my sense of balance and that sense that tells you where your feet are without looking at them.  I’ve had "distorted perceptions" before, many times, but they usually last only a few minutes, and I can perceive reality kind of in the background.  With Nortriptyline, the distortion was much more intense, and it lasted about half an hour each time.  I did some research, and figured out that these were probably partial seizures.  I had 5 one day, 6 the next, then 4 the third day (when I tried to empty out half the powder in the nortriptyline capsule.)  I also had more absence seizures than I could count. The meds that come to my mind are Paxil, Effexor, Zoloft, Celexa, and Buspar.  Any others?  I’m not looking at diving into a heavy duty antidepressant…something mild is just fine.  Any comments, experiences, etc. are welcome.

One of my doctors said that the tricyclics were supposed to be most effective as migraine preventatives.  If you want something mild, you would want a low dose.  But all the tricyclics have the same risk of lowering the seizure threshold.  I think I had a mild seizure disorder for a long time, without knowing it, but going on and off the anti- seizure drugs (Depakote and Neurontin) and other drugs that were supposed to prevent migraine could have lowered my seizure threshold even further.   Adrian Turtle sidewalk radical

Response:

Actually I have used all of those with exception of the Prozac.  The topomax experience was not one I could continue because of severe hives that developed about eight months into the treatment.  The amitriptylene is kind of sketchy because I tried it so many years ago and it didn’t work then and I had side effects that made me quit. I’m actually looking for the antidepressant for the antidepressant effect and hoping to help my CDHs as a side issue. Thanks! Michelle

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have used Topopmax, Nortriptelyne and Prozac. Topomax worked except for dizzyness, Nortriptylene weight gain and Prozak nothing. Other high powered ones also caused extreme dizzyness amd nuaseau. If you can handle Topomax or Amitriptylene they might help. A good Neurologist is best way to go. Dr. Ken Moore is great out of Chicago area. This is his only specialialty. He is also covered by BCBS. http://www.helpforheadaches.com/ Even if you are from out of state he may be of help. 70% of his patients are from out of state. Jim Hi all, I am looking at possibly going back on an antidepressant.  I’ve been on Paxil in the past and Effexor.  My experiences with Paxil and Effexor were both pretty good, but I did gain weight on the Paxil.  I wonder if people who have been on any of the antidepressants can share their experiences with them, i.e. did it help any of your migraines, chronic daily headaches, and did you experience side effects (and what were they)? The meds that come to my mind are Paxil, Effexor, Zoloft, Celexa, and Buspar.  Any others?  I’m not looking at diving into a heavy duty antidepressant…something mild is just fine.  Any comments, experiences, etc. are welcome. Thanks! Michelle

Response:

Hi Michelle, I think during the time that I experienced CDH I tried about every SSRI they had out.  I think there may be a few new ones that i didn’t go on but the point is the entire time I took anti-depressants I also dealt with CDH and intractable migraines . I also took Desyrel to help me sleep and it did sleep me. But didn’t make any difference in the headaches. Since going off SSRI’s May of 2001 I’ve had a total of 3 migraines. Only 1 of them required more then imitrex to abort.  My CDH is just gone.  Yeah, I do still get headaches.  I’m a stress sponge I swear and when I get stressed I still get a headache, but believe it or not i can actually treat them OTC. That’s just my experience We’re all different but I can’t help but wonder if i had quit everything sooner what would have happened. Please understand that at the same time I quit the anti-deprssents i also got rid of a lot of other drugs.  Klonopin, muscle relaxors and percodan to name a few.  Any one of them or a combination of all of them could have contributed to my headaches. Hope this helps Karen – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all, I am looking at possibly going back on an antidepressant.  I’ve been on Paxil in the past and Effexor.  My experiences with Paxil and Effexor were both pretty good, but I did gain weight on the Paxil.  I wonder if people who have been on any of the antidepressants can share their experiences with them, i.e. did it help any of your migraines, chronic daily headaches, and did you experience side effects (and what were they)? The meds that come to my mind are Paxil, Effexor, Zoloft, Celexa, and Buspar.  Any others?  I’m not looking at diving into a heavy duty antidepressant…something mild is just fine.  Any comments, experiences, etc. are welcome. Thanks! Michelle

Response:

Just thought I’d post this here FYI There is also a class action going against glaxosmithkline for paxil withdrawal information on it can also be found at this site (see url at end of article) Prozac, Zoloft, and Paxil Antidepressant Users v. Eli Lilly, Pfizer, and GlaxoSmithKline Commonly-Prescribed Antidepressants Are Extremely Dangerous for Some Some 200 legal actions have been filed against Eli Lilly, Pfizer, and GlaxoSmithKline, the manufacturers of Prozac (fluoxetine), Zoloft (sertraline), and Paxil (paroxetine), respectively, to recover for suicides or homicides–some completed, some only attempted–by patients in the first few days or weeks after they were prescribed one of these drugs.These three medications are in the same family, called SSRIs, for selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors. They are commonly prescribed for depression, and they work by increasing the amount of a chemical called serotonin in the brain. The actions against the drug companies claim that the companies knew–but failed to warn physicians and patients–that a small number of patients will experience a condition called akathisia, an overwhelming physical and mental restlessness, shortly after they begin taking these drugs. Other patients may, after beginning one of these medications, find themselves sufficiently energized to harm themselves, but not yet helped enough by the drug to control their destructive thoughts. Attorneys representing the patients or their survivors have discovered documents the companies hid–documents showing that these risks exist for all three antidepressants. Some of the patients who have suffered an akathisia reaction have been driven to horrible deeds. Matthew Miller was a 13-year-old who committed suicide less than a week after starting to take Zoloft. Donald Schell, 60, took two Paxil tablets before experiencing hallucinations and then shooting himself, his wife, their daughter, and their granddaughter to death on Feb. 13, 1998. On March 4, 1993, two weeks after starting to take Prozac, William Forsyth stabbed his wife 15 times as she lay in bed, and then leaned on the knife to kill himself. Reginald Payne, 63, a teacher in Great Britain, suffocated his wife and threw himself off a cliff in March 1996, after having taking Prozac for just 11 days. In July, 2001, a federal jury in Cheyenne, Wyoming ordered GlaxoSmithKline to pay $6.4 million to Donald Schell’s relatives. In that case, the relatives found internal GlaxoSmithKline documents showing the company was aware that a small number of people could become agitated or violent from Paxil. Despite this knowledge, Paxil packaging does not include a warning about suicide, violence or aggression. Documents Are Damning The documents discovered about Prozac are particularly revealing: 1. In 1990, Eli Lilly scientists were pressured by corporate executives to alter records on physicians’ experiences with Prozac, changing mentions of suicide attempts to "overdose" and suicidal thoughts to "depression." 2. Three years before Prozac received approval by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA), a similar agency in Germany had such serious reservations about Prozac’s safety that it refused to approve the antidepressant. Eli Lilly’s studies showed that previously nonsuicidal patients who took the drug had a five-fold higher rate of suicide and suicide attempts than those on older antidepressants, and a three-fold higher rate than those taking placebos. 3. Lilly’s own figures indicate that one in 100 previously nonsuicidal patients who took the drug in early clinical trials developed akathisia, causing them to attempt or commit suicide during the studies. It has also been discovered that the patent for a new version of Prozac, which Eli Lilly paid $90 million to acquire, states that the new formulation would reduce "the usual adverse effects" of the original Prozac, including "nervousness, anxiety, insomnia, inner restlessness (akathisia), suicidal thoughts, self-mutilation, manic behavior." Prozac was introduced by Eli Lilly to the U.S. market in January, 1988. Zoloft and Paxil followed in December, 1991, and December, 1992, respectively. Some 45,000 reports of adverse reactions to Prozac have been filed with the FDA. These include reports of about 2500 deaths, with the large majority linked to suicide or violence. Physicians Report Suicidal Reactions Dr. Martin Teicher of Harvard Medical School reported in 1990 that he and his colleagues had observed suicidal thoughts in six patients who were taking Prozac. More recently, Dr. David Healy, an expert on the brain’s serotonin system and the director of the North Wales Department of Psychological Medicine at the University of Wales, estimated that "probably 50,000 people have committed suicide on Prozac since its launch, over and above the number who would have done so if left untreated." Meanwhile, the drug companies continue to rely on a 1991 finding from an FDA advisory panel that "there is no credible evidence of a causal link between the use of antidepressant drugs, including Prozac, and suicidality or violent behaviour." http://www.classactionamerica.com/cases/case.asp?cid=1087

Response:

I have no problem with Nortriptyline which I am taking for 2 weeks.  I started and stayed on 10 mgs with no side effects to speak of; I have just increased my dose to 20 mgs, and I restarted Prozac yesterday.  I am also wearing the NTI appliance and my headaches are better [after 3 weeks].  I also take 1/3 of a triptan the last couple of days and may continue that as a preventative for a week or two and see how that works out.   Also, when I was on Paxil a few years ago, I think it cut down on some of my headaches at that time, but it had plenty of side effects. Joy

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Thanks, Karen.  Interesting.  I had a conversation with my doctor today about the antidepressants and my experience with Paxil (weight gain and icky withdrawal).  He said it doesn’t have to be that way if a doctor closely manages the patient, but he also said Paxil really is bad for those two reasons.  He doesn’t typically prescribe it.  He said the newer drugs are actually turning out to have better results.  He mentioned Lexolor or something like that, but we agreed on Effexor for now since I did have good results with it last time.  We’ll see. I’ll check out the Paxil link…interesting. Thanks, Michelle

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Just thought I’d post this here FYI There is also a class action going against glaxosmithkline for paxil withdrawal information on it can also be found at this site (see url at end of article) Prozac, Zoloft, and Paxil Antidepressant Users v. Eli Lilly, Pfizer, and GlaxoSmithKline Commonly-Prescribed Antidepressants Are Extremely Dangerous for Some Some 200 legal actions have been filed against Eli Lilly, Pfizer, and GlaxoSmithKline, the manufacturers of Prozac (fluoxetine), Zoloft (sertraline), and Paxil (paroxetine), respectively, to recover for suicides or homicides–some completed, some only attempted–by patients in the first few days or weeks after they were prescribed one of these drugs.These three medications are in the same family, called SSRIs, for selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors. They are commonly prescribed for depression, and they work by increasing the amount of a chemical called serotonin in the brain. The actions against the drug companies claim that the companies knew–but failed to warn physicians and patients–that a small number of patients will experience a condition called akathisia, an overwhelming physical and mental restlessness, shortly after they begin taking these drugs. Other patients may, after beginning one of these medications, find themselves sufficiently energized to harm themselves, but not yet helped enough by the drug to control their destructive thoughts. Attorneys representing the patients or their survivors have discovered documents the companies hid–documents showing that these risks exist for all three antidepressants. Some of the patients who have suffered an akathisia reaction have been driven to horrible deeds. Matthew Miller was a 13-year-old who committed suicide less than a week after starting to take Zoloft. Donald Schell, 60, took two Paxil tablets before experiencing hallucinations and then shooting himself, his wife, their daughter, and their granddaughter to death on Feb. 13, 1998. On March 4, 1993, two weeks after starting to take Prozac, William Forsyth stabbed his wife 15 times as she lay in bed, and then leaned on the knife to kill himself. Reginald Payne, 63, a teacher in Great Britain, suffocated his wife and threw himself off a cliff in March 1996, after having taking Prozac for just 11 days. In July, 2001, a federal jury in Cheyenne, Wyoming ordered GlaxoSmithKline to pay $6.4 million to Donald Schell’s relatives. In that case, the relatives found internal GlaxoSmithKline documents showing the company was aware that a small number of people could become agitated or violent from Paxil. Despite this knowledge, Paxil packaging does not include a warning about suicide, violence or aggression. Documents Are Damning The documents discovered about Prozac are particularly revealing: 1. In 1990, Eli Lilly scientists were pressured by corporate executives to alter records on physicians’ experiences with Prozac, changing mentions of suicide attempts to "overdose" and suicidal thoughts to "depression." 2. Three years before Prozac received approval by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA), a similar agency in Germany had such serious reservations about Prozac’s safety that it refused to approve the antidepressant. Eli Lilly’s studies showed that previously nonsuicidal patients who took the drug had a five-fold higher rate of suicide and suicide attempts than those on older antidepressants, and a three-fold higher rate than those taking placebos. 3. Lilly’s own figures indicate that one in 100 previously nonsuicidal patients who took the drug in early clinical trials developed akathisia, causing them to attempt or commit suicide during the studies. It has also been discovered that the patent for a new version of Prozac, which Eli Lilly paid $90 million to acquire, states that the new formulation would reduce "the usual adverse effects" of the original Prozac, including "nervousness, anxiety, insomnia, inner restlessness (akathisia), suicidal thoughts, self-mutilation, manic behavior." Prozac was introduced by Eli Lilly to the U.S. market in January, 1988. Zoloft and Paxil followed in December, 1991, and December, 1992, respectively. Some 45,000 reports of adverse reactions to Prozac have been filed with the FDA. These include reports of about 2500 deaths, with the large majority linked to suicide or violence. Physicians Report Suicidal Reactions Dr. Martin Teicher of Harvard Medical School reported in 1990 that he and his colleagues had observed suicidal thoughts in six patients who were taking Prozac. More recently, Dr. David Healy, an expert on the brain’s serotonin system and the director of the North Wales Department of Psychological Medicine at the University of Wales, estimated that "probably 50,000 people have committed suicide on Prozac since its launch, over and above the number who would have done so if left untreated." Meanwhile, the drug companies continue to rely on a 1991 finding from an FDA advisory panel that "there is no credible evidence of a causal link between the use of antidepressant drugs, including Prozac, and suicidality or violent behaviour." http://www.classactionamerica.com/cases/case.asp?cid=1087

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Joy, About the Paxil side effects…that’s what my doctor said.  He doesn’t typically prescribe it unless a patient had a history with it that was good. I went with Effexor since I had used that before, but he also mentioned something like Lexolor (sp?), but I never heard of that. Michelle

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have no problem with Nortriptyline which I am taking for 2 weeks.  I started and stayed on 10 mgs with no side effects to speak of; I have just increased my dose to 20 mgs, and I restarted Prozac yesterday.  I am also wearing the NTI appliance and my headaches are better [after 3 weeks].  I also take 1/3 of a triptan the last couple of days and may continue that as a preventative for a week or two and see how that works out.   Also, when I was on Paxil a few years ago, I think it cut down on some of my headaches at that time, but it had plenty of side effects. Joy

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Thanks, Holly, Mine are mainly caused by hormones.  I have since started taking Effexor since I did have success with it in the past.  It actually has helped and I have had five out of seven days migraine free.  The other two days I suspect were caused by the upper level low that came sweeping in with massive rain (another trigger–weather). Thanks, though. Michelle

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have used several anti-depressants for migraine control.  I also am deficient in serotonin.  They all gave me out of control carbohydrate cravings.  This is a common side-effect – it changes your appetite control centers.  Some people become anorexic others get terrible hunger.  But, I invested in a light-box.  It simulates sunlight (sunlight is supposed to increase serotonin levels in the brain, which is what ssri’s do also) and has totally kept my migraines at bay without use of any drugs.  If you keep track of migraine cycles you may be able to see if they decrease when you spend more time outside in brilliant sunshine.  Holly

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I have used several anti-depressants for migraine control.  I also am deficient in serotonin.  They all gave me out of control carbohydrate cravings.  This is a common side-effect – it changes your appetite control centers.  Some people become anorexic others get terrible hunger.  But, I invested in a light-box.  It simulates sunlight (sunlight is supposed to increase serotonin levels in the brain, which is what ssri’s do also) and has totally kept my migraines at bay without use of any drugs.  If you keep track of migraine cycles you may be able to see if they decrease when you spend more time outside in brilliant sunshine.  Holly

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hello, ask your doctor about amitryptyline… works wonders for me…only on 40 mg a day. Psylocke — "Friends are bacon bits in the salad of life"

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all, I am looking at possibly going back on an antidepressant.  I’ve been on Paxil in the past and Effexor.  My experiences with Paxil and Effexor were both pretty good, but I did gain weight on the Paxil.  I wonder if people who have been on any of the antidepressants can share their experiences with them, i.e. did it help any of your migraines, chronic daily headaches, and did you experience side effects (and what were they)? The meds that come to my mind are Paxil, Effexor, Zoloft, Celexa, and Buspar.  Any others?  I’m not looking at diving into a heavy duty antidepressant…something mild is just fine.  Any comments, experiences, etc. are welcome. Thanks! Michelle

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The only anti-depressant I take is Prozac and that is for my depression and for Attention Deficit Disorder. I take it once a day and it dosen’t do anything for my migraine headaches. barbara Booth

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Really, prozac caused weight loss for you?  Seems funny since most of the other antidepressants seem to do just the opposite.  I gained ten pounds on Paxil. Is any of this helping with your migraines? Thanks! Michelle

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve been on the SSRI Prozac for maybe 16-18 years, and while it has some side effects I don’t care for (farting, tinnitus, dry mouth), it has some that are helpful (anorexia, wakeful-need to take it in the a.m.). And it’s available in a generic now. Prozac is also good at keeping weight off – they were or are marketing it as a weight reduction aid. I also take Elavil/actually I take Amitriptyline the generic at night, because it helps me sleep, and Elavil is good for overall pain syndromes in that it not only boosts the serotonin, but it also relaxes the muscles at night, which helps ensure better sleep. And it’s inexpensive. But its drawbacks are DRY mouth and dry eyes, and maybe tinnitus. I also took BuSpar several years ago, but it technically is a

tranquilizer, not an – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – antidepressant, even though it binds to serotonin receptors, and doesn’t make you sleepy. It’s a good drug, and fairly benign as far as side effects go. It was prescribed for me at MHNI. Ginnie Hi all, I am looking at possibly going back on an antidepressant.  I’ve been on Paxil in the past and Effexor.  My experiences with Paxil and Effexor were both pretty good, but I did gain weight on the Paxil.  I wonder if people who have been on any of the antidepressants can share their experiences with them, i.e. did it help any of your migraines, chronic daily headaches, and did you experience side effects (and what were they)? The meds that come to my mind are Paxil, Effexor, Zoloft, Celexa, and Buspar.  Any others?  I’m not looking at diving into a heavy duty antidepressant…something mild is just fine.  Any comments, experiences, etc. are welcome. Thanks! Michelle

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Priscilla, did you notice any weight gain with the Celexa and do you use any triptans as an abortive?  I noticed on the Celexa site that they warn against using some of the triptans…didn’t know if that was an issue for you? Sleepiness for me at night would be very welcome…during the day would not. Thanks, Michelle

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all, I am looking at possibly going back on an antidepressant.  I’ve been on Paxil in the past and Effexor.  My experiences with Paxil and Effexor were both pretty good, but I did gain weight on the Paxil.  I wonder if people who have been on any of the antidepressants can share their experiences with them, i.e. did it help any of your migraines, chronic daily headaches, and did you experience side effects (and what were they)? The meds that come to my mind are Paxil, Effexor, Zoloft, Celexa, and Buspar.  Any others?  I’m not looking at diving into a heavy duty antidepressant…something mild is just fine.  Any comments, experiences, etc. are welcome. I’m going off Celexa and back to Zoloft because I suspect Celexa may be responsible for my terrible sleepiness.  It worked well as an antidepressant, as did Zoloft before (and I hope again!). Priscilla — "As you get older, physical deterioration is offset by a larger world view and a deeper sense of gratitude."  Diane Keaton

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I’ve been on the SSRI Prozac for maybe 16-18 years, and while it has some side effects I don’t care for (farting, tinnitus, dry mouth), it has some that are helpful (anorexia, wakeful-need to take it in the a.m.). And it’s available in a generic now. Prozac is also good at keeping weight off – they were or are marketing it as a weight reduction aid. I also take Elavil/actually I take Amitriptyline the generic at night, because it helps me sleep, and Elavil is good for overall pain syndromes in that it not only boosts the serotonin, but it also relaxes the muscles at night, which helps ensure better sleep. And it’s inexpensive. But its drawbacks are DRY mouth and dry eyes, and maybe tinnitus. I also took BuSpar several years ago, but it technically is a tranquilizer, not an antidepressant, even though it binds to serotonin receptors, and doesn’t make you sleepy. It’s a good drug, and fairly benign as far as side effects go. It was prescribed for me at MHNI. Ginnie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all, I am looking at possibly going back on an antidepressant.  I’ve been on Paxil in the past and Effexor.  My experiences with Paxil and Effexor were both pretty good, but I did gain weight on the Paxil.  I wonder if people who have been on any of the antidepressants can share their experiences with them, i.e. did it help any of your migraines, chronic daily headaches, and did you experience side effects (and what were they)? The meds that come to my mind are Paxil, Effexor, Zoloft, Celexa, and Buspar.  Any others?  I’m not looking at diving into a heavy duty antidepressant…something mild is just fine.  Any comments, experiences, etc. are welcome. Thanks! Michelle

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Hi all, I am looking at possibly going back on an antidepressant.  I’ve been on Paxil in the past and Effexor.  My experiences with Paxil and Effexor were both pretty good, but I did gain weight on the Paxil.  I wonder if people who have been on any of the antidepressants can share their experiences with them, i.e. did it help any of your migraines, chronic daily headaches, and did you experience side effects (and what were they)? The meds that come to my mind are Paxil, Effexor, Zoloft, Celexa, and Buspar.  Any others?  I’m not looking at diving into a heavy duty antidepressant…something mild is just fine.  Any comments, experiences, etc. are welcome.

I’m going off Celexa and back to Zoloft because I suspect Celexa may be responsible for my terrible sleepiness.  It worked well as an antidepressant, as did Zoloft before (and I hope again!). Priscilla — "As you get older, physical deterioration is offset by a larger world view and a deeper sense of gratitude."  Diane Keaton

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Have tried the tricyclics (no help, much weight gain); three SSRIs (no help & no libido either); and Welbutrin (no help, spoiled my occasional cigar…hee hee). Sorry. Hope your experience is better. –Julianne

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Hi all, I am looking at possibly going back on an antidepressant.  I’ve been on Paxil in the past and Effexor.  My experiences with Paxil and Effexor were both pretty good, but I did gain weight on the Paxil.  I wonder if people who have been on any of the antidepressants can share their experiences with them, i.e. did it help any of your migraines, chronic daily headaches, and did you experience side effects (and what were they)? The meds that come to my mind are Paxil, Effexor, Zoloft, Celexa, and Buspar.  Any others?  I’m not looking at diving into a heavy duty antidepressant…something mild is just fine.  Any comments, experiences, etc. are welcome. Thanks! Michelle

Response:

Question:

Effexor Withdrawal Causing Crackling Sounds in the Brain Antidepressants  "Thank God for this website." I had a nervous breakdown six years ago and after being on other

anti-depressants without a problem, my psychiatrist felt that Effexor had less of an effect on the heart, and so switched me to Effexor. I have tried unsuccessfully to quit on many

occasions, even though I only take 37.5 mgs per day. The extreme lethargy I feel when I have tried to quit, the tingling in various parts of my body, the weird dreams and most

troublesome of all, the crackling, electric sounds in my head have caused me too much distress to ever be successful.

Hi, I think that you have to think about all these  side effect problems. Maybe they are not side-effect, maybe they are only telling you that you are stressed, and you need to fix your problems, otherwise the side-problems will be forever with you B

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Effexor Withdrawal Causing Crackling Sounds in the Brain Antidepressants  "Thank God for this website." I had a nervous breakdown six years ago and after being on other  anti-depressants without a problem, my psychiatrist felt that Effexor had less of an effect on the  heart, and so switched me to Effexor. I have tried unsuccessfully to quit on many  occasions, even though I only take 37.5 mgs per day. The extreme lethargy I feel when I have  tried to quit, the tingling in various parts of my body, the weird dreams and most  troublesome of all, the crackling, electric sounds in my head have caused me too much distress to  ever be successful. Hi, I think that you have to think about all these  side effect problems. Maybe they are not side-effect, maybe they are only telling you that you are stressed, and you need to fix your problems, otherwise the side-problems will be forever with you B

I thought cross-posting to and from different kind of newsgroups was not the reason why they started alt.support.schizofrenia. Btw, is it not forbidden in the FAQ ? Berty

Response:

Effexor Withdrawal Causing Crackling Sounds in the Brain Antidepressants  "Thank God for this website." I had a nervous breakdown six years ago and after being on other

anti-depressants without a problem, my psychiatrist felt that Effexor had less of an effect on the heart, and so switched me to Effexor. I have tried unsuccessfully to quit on many

occasions, even though I only take 37.5 mgs per day. The extreme lethargy I feel when I have tried to quit, the tingling in various parts of my body, the weird dreams and most

troublesome of all, the crackling, electric sounds in my head have caused me too much distress to ever be successful.

Hi, I think that you have to think about all these  side effect problems. Maybe they are not side-effect, maybe they are only telling you that you are stressed, and you need to fix your problems, otherwise the side-problems will be forever with you B

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Effexor Withdrawal Causing Crackling Sounds in the Brain Antidepressants  "Thank God for this website." I had a nervous breakdown six years ago and after being on other  anti-depressants without a problem, my psychiatrist felt that Effexor had less of an effect on the  heart, and so switched me to Effexor. I have tried unsuccessfully to quit on many  occasions, even though I only take 37.5 mgs per day. The extreme lethargy I feel when I have  tried to quit, the tingling in various parts of my body, the weird dreams and most  troublesome of all, the crackling, electric sounds in my head have caused me too much distress to  ever be successful. Hi, I think that you have to think about all these  side effect problems. Maybe they are not side-effect, maybe they are only telling you that you are stressed, and you need to fix your problems, otherwise the side-problems will be forever with you B

I thought cross-posting to and from different kind of newsgroups was not the reason why they started alt.support.schizofrenia. Btw, is it not forbidden in the FAQ ? Berty

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Question:

BPD is known to be "incurable". so is cancer, cardiac disease, high blood pressure, diabetes and everything else except the common cold. If you get screwed by the insurance company call the board of insurance regulators in your state and file a complaint contact a lawyer and the newspapers-put some heat on them and they will pay-guaranteed

Thanks to everyone who replied.  All good advice. A few comments: I think that I got screwed by my employer rather than the insurance company. It was my employer who  CHOSE to switch from a better plan to one that reimburses psych drugs at 50%.   There were other plans to choose from and they chose this one. I used to pay 8 bucks for Zoloft while employed by these people under the old plan.  Isn’t that kind of like docking people’s salaries? One theory from another employee is that they wanted to cut costs and figured that this plan would screw the least amount of people.   PMS method? – I’m pretty sure that the drug is reimbursed at 50 percent no matter what the need is for it. But, I’m not certain about that. Boy am I confused. Generic Prozac? – I wonder why the psych doctor didn’t prescribe that for me. If it does the same thing and is exactly the same, what gives? Another question – is Prozac effective in helping to combat the tendency to get soooo freaking mad and disgusted that your entire body feels like it’s going to go through the roof?  That’s  one of my symptoms and I don’t mean road rage and stuff like that cuz that’s not what I get upset over. I get upset over nitwits like the people I work for.   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -the major affective disorders like bp require an ongoing course of medication which changes frequently and costs money-they take the risk of insuring you ergo they take the liability of paying as well as the asset of receiving premiums LM

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effective in helping to combat the tendency to get soooo freaking mad and disgusted that your entire body feels like it’s going to go through the roof?  That’s  one of my symptoms and I don’t mean road rage and stuff like that cuz that’s not what I get upset over. I get upset over nitwits like the people I work for.  

no not really in fact ity may alow you the pleasure of releasing this anger with less concern for your ramifications for doing so-a better plan is to stop demanding that those who do indeed act nitwitlike stop doing so since it won’t happen-you cannot change their nitwitdom but you can change your thoughts about how horrible their behavior is. This is cognitive therapy and it may allow you to stop reacting to others who push your buttons log on to www.rebt.org and get the book how to live with a neurotic by ellis it may be helpful LM

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Christine wrote……

<snipped Here’s the real disheartening part of the story – I go to the drug store and find out that my company has switched insurance plans and that I have to pay aprox. $138.00 for a 30-day supply and will get only 50% of that back because it is a psychiatric drug.

insurance and with this plan I have to pay alot more out of  pocket if I am prescribed a brand name med when there is a generic available. You might want to inquire about how much they would cover if you were prescribed generic Prozac. Take care!! Jackie ~*~Beyond myself…….somewhere   I wait for my arrival~*~

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Christine wrote…… <snipped Here’s the real disheartening part of the story – I go to the drug store and find out that my company has switched insurance plans and that I have to pay aprox. $138.00 for a 30-day supply and will get only 50% of that back because it is a psychiatric drug. health insurance and with this plan I have to pay alot more out of  pocket if I am prescribed a brand name med when there is a generic available. You might want to inquire about how much they would cover if you were prescribed generic Prozac. Take care!! Jackie ~*~Beyond myself…….somewhere  I wait for my arrival~*~

all good responses but will only add that any doc who claims prozac is really the best drug for this or for you is talking outa paper butt if you catch my drift. Prozac is typically more stimulating then zoloft and if you had severe side effects to zoloft you may not tolerate prozac any better. They both do similar things slightly differently in ones brain. If you have gad the best treatment is a combination of a benzo and an ad med and I prefer the more sedating ad meds for this not the more stimulating ones-if he is so hell bent on the ssri class ask for some samples for paxil as for insurance reimbursement: consider it a terrorist attack on ones well being and medical health-managed care sucks LM ps. don’t let him give you the crapola about using buspar and an ad instead of a benzo-although it can work for those lucky few the benzo alone will help the generalized sensation of anxiety

Response:

BPD is known to be "incurable".

so is cancer, cardiac disease, high blood pressure, diabetes and everything else except the common cold. If you get screwed by the insurance company call the board of insurance regulators in your state and file a complaint contact a lawyer and the newspapers-put some heat on them and they will pay-guaranteed the major affective disorders like bp require an ongoing course of medication which changes frequently and costs money-they take the risk of insuring you ergo they take the liability of paying as well as the asset of receiving premiums LM

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forgot to mention this… while asking my company’s benefits coordinator what the story was with reimbursement, she asked, "Well, what kind of drug is it – is it a psychiatric drug or is it medically necessary? to which I responded – "IT’S BOTH". Boy, does that make me MADDDD!!!!!<

Well said! P.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yesterday, I met with the ole psych doctor to figure out what med I should start taking for GAD.  I had been using Zoloft in the past but didn’t get past 50 mg and stopped taking it because I thought it was causing me to wake up in the middle of the night.  While discussing my options with the doc, I asked him (like a always do), "Why is Zoloft your drug of choice for me?" He said that the reason he had prescribed Zoloft in the past was because it has a better track record for people actually getting through the initial side effects than Prozac has AND it has helped to ease many different kinds of anxiety situations (OCD, GAD, panic, etc..)  However, his opinion was that thee BEST drug for me to TRY would actually be Prozac.  He stated that although Prozac is a tough one to use at first (because of the jitteryness and anxiety inital side effects), in the long run it is VERY effective in treating GAD once it really kicks in. The plan was for me to very slowly ween (sp?) myself on it by starting with five (5) mg. then 10, then 15 and then 20 eventually over the course of 2 months (if that’s what it takes).  He said that although not gaurenteed, the chances are high that if I get through the side effects that the drug will do its job well.  Anyone agree? I’m kind of scared to death to take this stuff and can imagine freaking out from anxiety.

Prozac is the most stimulating of the SSRI

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The philosopher Voltaire was known to have consumed over 50 cups of coffee a day which came as a surprise to readers of Voltaire such as Nikola Tesla, the electrical engineer and inventor.  The French mathematician, Poincare, said one his mathematical advances came as the direct result of drinking a single cup of black coffee.  Caffeine is a known weak central nervous system stimulant – alerting agent – and it has been extensively studied at different medical schools and universities around the world.  Caffeine is known to increase alertness, energy, and the ability to concentrate in some people (not all). Source:  http://pubs.acs.org/hotartcl/chemtech/99/jul/negli.html In the midst of my recent efforts to have my daughter and myself assessed for ADD, my new partner and I attended a CHADD meeting. There was a presentation given on diagnosing adults by the woman who had recently assessed me. My partner suddenly began to wonder if he might have it and said he should get assessed.  As the meeting was breaking up and right in front of the presenter I asked him, "So you really think you may have ADD?" "Well, not as bad as you do." he said. "Perhaps if you didn’t drink so much coffee, you might think differently." The presenter pointed out, as I already knew, that some people self-medicate with caffeine. Then a couple of days later I asked my partner just how much coffee he consumes in a average day, because I knew he drank a lot, but I had no idea how much. He told me that he drinks an average of 20-22 mugs of coffee each day! I was shocked!  I have scoured the net for info on long-term health effects of consuming that much caffeine and there is none.  I don’t think anyone else drinks that much coffee…certainly no one that has been part of any study,  Excessive intake is said to be about 10 cups and he drinks twice that!  There are only long-term studies on people consuming up to 650 mg of caffeine per day (about 6 cups) and there are potential serious effects on that.  The so-called toxic dose is 10,000 mg (about 100 cups of coffee).  Even so, my partner is consuming what would be considered an "overdose"…and then some! His hands tremor, but otherwise, he is suffering no apparent ill effects.  I worry about ulcers and heart irregularities.  He has only been drinking this much for about the last year, since he quit drinking alcohol. I now have no doubts that he’s self-medicating undiagnosed ADD and I want him to get assessed.  I managed to convince him to cut back to 10 cups a day and gradually to 5 for the sake of his health. So far, so good. Has anyone else here tried to unknowingly self-medicate with caffeine to that extreme?  Does anyone here even know someone who drinks that much coffee consistently?

I used to drink a lot of coffee. I worked good with my ADD my irritated my aniexty something fierce. I was edgy and parinoid and my my hair trigger temper would go off without warning. I was such a joy to be around . But I love coffee so I switched to decaf. Who says you can’t have your cake and eat it too. Dami

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For years I’ve happily consumed large quantities of coffee — 32oz on the way to work, several 20oz during the day, then more at night, never kept me up. Never occured to me it might be "self-medicating", I just thought it was a relatively harmless addiction that seemed to help me get down to business. Is this true of depression, anxiety disorders, or BPD, or is it mainly ADD? – Jeff Has anyone else here tried to unknowingly self-medicate with caffeine to that extreme?  Does anyone here even know someone who drinks that much coffee consistently? I used to drink a lot of coffee. I worked good with my ADD my irritated my aniexty something fierce. I was edgy and parinoid and my my hair trigger temper would go off without warning. I was such a joy to be around . But I love coffee so I switched to decaf. Who says you can’t have your cake and eat it too.

– ‘98 Rans V-Rex    ==–%   Waltham, MA    ()    O http://www.BlueSNAFU.com – v2.35

Response:

For years I’ve happily consumed large quantities of coffee — 32oz on the way to work, several 20oz during the day, then more at night, never kept me up. Never occured to me it might be "self-medicating", I just thought it was a relatively harmless addiction that seemed to help me get down to business. Is this true of depression, anxiety disorders, or BPD, or is it mainly ADD?

Although, I don’t know for sure, it think it’s mainly ADD. Since caffine is a stimulant and gives you that extra kick in the butt that helps. I remember during some of my caffinated days, I would drink a large iced coffee and clean the whole house. Housecleaning is very difficult for me. My mom was, and is, the same way. She was never diagnosed with ADD but she has all the symptoms, but shes worse than me but that’s another story. I’m not sure if caffine helps depression I have that too but it never seemd to make a difference with me. Anxiety I’m sure it dosen’t help since caffine is a form of amphetmine and as I’ve found personally after long usage it was very bad for my anxiety so I had to stop. Dami – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Has anyone else here tried to unknowingly self-medicate with caffeine to that extreme?  Does anyone here even know someone who drinks that much coffee consistently? I used to drink a lot of coffee. I worked good with my ADD my irritated my aniexty something fierce. I was edgy and parinoid and my my hair trigger temper would go off without warning. I was such a joy to be around . But I love coffee so I switched to decaf. Who says you can’t have your cake and eat it too.

Response:

The philosopher Voltaire was known to have consumed over 50 cups of coffee a day which came as a surprise to readers of Voltaire such as Nikola Tesla, the electrical engineer and inventor.  The French mathematician, Poincare, said one his mathematical advances came as the direct result of drinking a single cup of black coffee.  Caffeine is a known weak central nervous system stimulant – alerting agent – and it has been extensively studied at different medical schools and universities around the world.  Caffeine is known to increase alertness, energy, and the ability to concentrate in some people (not all). Source:  http://pubs.acs.org/hotartcl/chemtech/99/jul/negli.html – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In the midst of my recent efforts to have my daughter and myself assessed for ADD, my new partner and I attended a CHADD meeting. There was a presentation given on diagnosing adults by the woman who had recently assessed me. My partner suddenly began to wonder if he might have it and said he should get assessed.  As the meeting was breaking up and right in front of the presenter I asked him, "So you really think you may have ADD?" "Well, not as bad as you do." he said. "Perhaps if you didn’t drink so much coffee, you might think differently." The presenter pointed out, as I already knew, that some people self-medicate with caffeine. Then a couple of days later I asked my partner just how much coffee he consumes in a average day, because I knew he drank a lot, but I had no idea how much. He told me that he drinks an average of 20-22 mugs of coffee each day! I was shocked!  I have scoured the net for info on long-term health effects of consuming that much caffeine and there is none.  I don’t think anyone else drinks that much coffee…certainly no one that has been part of any study,  Excessive intake is said to be about 10 cups and he drinks twice that!  There are only long-term studies on people consuming up to 650 mg of caffeine per day (about 6 cups) and there are potential serious effects on that.  The so-called toxic dose is 10,000 mg (about 100 cups of coffee).  Even so, my partner is consuming what would be considered an "overdose"…and then some! His hands tremor, but otherwise, he is suffering no apparent ill effects.  I worry about ulcers and heart irregularities.  He has only been drinking this much for about the last year, since he quit drinking alcohol. I now have no doubts that he’s self-medicating undiagnosed ADD and I want him to get assessed.  I managed to convince him to cut back to 10 cups a day and gradually to 5 for the sake of his health. So far, so good. Has anyone else here tried to unknowingly self-medicate with caffeine to that extreme?  Does anyone here even know someone who drinks that much coffee consistently?

Before you buy.

Response:

I’ve got you all beat.. at work we make a POT of coffee using THREE scoops of CAFE BUSTELLO (expresso coffee) at home I make      A CUP of coffee using TWO SCOOPS (yes two scoops per cup) of the same coffee. (a scoop is 1/8 of a cup)

Ugh…I am literally shuddering at the thought of this.  For the record, as much as my partner loves his coffee, I hate the taste of it and your recipe sounds disgustingly bitter to me.   My reaction to the caffeine contained in colas and coffee:  I get horribly nauseous & shaky.  I haven’t let cola pass my lips in over 10 years because of this.   I prefer weak tea…with a packet of equal & lots of coffeemate. Briana

Response:

Expresso has less caffine than a lighter roast.  Also I don’t find it bitter at all if it is fresh which is why I make one cup at a time. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve got you all beat.. at work we make a POT of coffee using THREE scoops of CAFE BUSTELLO (expresso coffee) at home I make         A CUP of coffee using TWO SCOOPS (yes two scoops per cup) of the same coffee. (a scoop is 1/8 of a cup) Ugh…I am literally shuddering at the thought of this.  For the record, as much as my partner loves his coffee, I hate the taste of it and your recipe sounds disgustingly bitter to me.   My reaction to the caffeine contained in colas and coffee:  I get horribly nauseous & shaky.  I haven’t let cola pass my lips in over 10 years because of this.   I prefer weak tea…with a packet of equal & lots of coffeemate. Briana

– Nessa — If trains stop at trains stations, what happens at work stations?

Response:

Expresso has less caffine than a lighter roast.  Also I don’t find it bitter at all if it is fresh which is why I make one cup at a time.

i saw my gp today and tried to tell him some of my ‘difficulties’. so i mentioned that i drank loads and loads of coffee and he asked why and i said because it helps me function so he said ‘ah, you’re caffeine addicted.’. i mean , god, how the hell am i going to explaing to a shrink what my life is like when they have such answers parat ? they can only dx within their learned boundaries. i have appt. with shrink in two weeks. is it a good idea to phone with them first or write, or what ? sammi. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve got you all beat.. at work we make a POT of coffee using THREE scoops of CAFE BUSTELLO (expresso coffee) at home I make A CUP of coffee using TWO SCOOPS (yes two scoops per cup) of the same coffee. (a scoop is 1/8 of a cup) Ugh…I am literally shuddering at the thought of this.  For the record, as much as my partner loves his coffee, I hate the taste of it and your recipe sounds disgustingly bitter to me. My reaction to the caffeine contained in colas and coffee:  I get horribly nauseous & shaky.  I haven’t let cola pass my lips in over 10 years because of this. I prefer weak tea…with a packet of equal & lots of coffeemate. Briana — Nessa — If trains stop at trains stations, what happens at work stations?

Response:

If you feel that the central nervous system stimulant – alerting agent –  caffeine may be helpful to you, the best place to start is with your family doctor.  That’s what I did.  C. Thomas Wild The most notable behavioral effects of caffeine – increased alertness, energy, and ability to concentrate – occur after consumption of low to moderate doses (50-300 mg). Source:  http://pubs.acs.org/hotartcl/chemtech/99/jul/negli.html Attention Deficit Disorder: http://www.merck.com/pubs/mmanual/section19/chapter262/262d.htm http://www.angelfire.com/biz/addsyndrome/index.html http://homepages.msn.com/RightWay/c_thomas_wild Domeena C. Renshaw, M.D., in The Hyperactive Child, reports a study by Schnackenberg, who substituted caffeine for methylphenidate (Ritalin) in eleven children who were on the latter medication for their hyperkinetic symptoms.  She reports that his results with two cups of coffee (equivalent to 200-300 mg. caffeine) per day were as satisfactory as the amphetamines, at one tenth of the cost. There are a number of FDA approved medicines such as NoDoz which list caffeine as the active ingredient.  Often there are cautions such as too much caffeine may cause nervousness, irritability, sleeplessness and, occasionally, rapid heart beat.  The products are generally marketed for occasional use only and they are not intended for use as a substitute for sleep.  If a person wants to find out more about the products, the person should consult their family doctor.  That’s what I did. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In the midst of my recent efforts to have my daughter and myself assessed for ADD, my new partner and I attended a CHADD meeting. There was a presentation given on diagnosing adults by the woman who had recently assessed me. My partner suddenly began to wonder if he might have it and said he should get assessed.  As the meeting was breaking up and right in front of the presenter I asked him, "So you really think you may have ADD?" "Well, not as bad as you do." he said. "Perhaps if you didn’t drink so much coffee, you might think differently." The presenter pointed out, as I already knew, that some people self-medicate with caffeine. Then a couple of days later I asked my partner just how much coffee he consumes in a average day, because I knew he drank a lot, but I had no idea how much. He told me that he drinks an average of 20-22 mugs of coffee each day! I was shocked!  I have scoured the net for info on long-term health effects of consuming that much caffeine and there is none.  I don’t think anyone else drinks that much coffee…certainly no one that has been part of any study,  Excessive intake is said to be about 10 cups and he drinks twice that!  There are only long-term studies on people consuming up to 650 mg of caffeine per day (about 6 cups) and there are potential serious effects on that.  The so-called toxic dose is 10,000 mg (about 100 cups of coffee).  Even so, my partner is consuming what would be considered an "overdose"…and then some! His hands tremor, but otherwise, he is suffering no apparent ill effects.  I worry about ulcers and heart irregularities.  He has only been drinking this much for about the last year, since he quit drinking alcohol. I now have no doubts that he’s self-medicating undiagnosed ADD and I want him to get assessed.  I managed to convince him to cut back to 10 cups a day and gradually to 5 for the sake of his health. So far, so good. Has anyone else here tried to unknowingly self-medicate with caffeine to that extreme?  Does anyone here even know someone who drinks that much coffee consistently?

Before you buy.

Response:

Years ago, I came back from shore leave and discovered that the the hospital corpsman had hooked up an IV tube at my bunk–substituting a Coke bottle for the plasma. His explanation:  You drink so much of the stuff, you might as well main-line it. Paul

Response:

Years ago, I came back from shore leave and discovered that the the hospital corpsman had hooked up an IV tube at my bunk–substituting a Coke bottle for the plasma. His explanation:  You drink so much of the stuff, you might as well main-line it. Paul

My wife is a nurse, and I keep asking her to give me IV coffee.

Response:

Years ago, I came back from shore leave and discovered that the the hospital corpsman had hooked up an IV tube at my bunk–substituting a Coke bottle for the plasma. His explanation:  You drink so much of the stuff, you might as well main-line it. Paul My wife is a nurse, and I keep asking her to give me IV coffee.

You mean you have  blood in your coffee stream? — Nessa — does fuzzy logic tickle

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Years ago, I came back from shore leave and discovered that the the hospital corpsman had hooked up an IV tube at my bunk–substituting a Coke bottle for the plasma. His explanation:  You drink so much of the stuff, you might as well main-line it. Paul My wife is a nurse, and I keep asking her to give me IV coffee. You mean you have  blood in your coffee stream?

ROLF, or ROFL, or ROFLMAO or MFOSPALROFL err, shanks shor she shjoke, shbut shi shave shoo shlean she shreen shoff. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — Nessa — does fuzzy logic tickle

Response:

I’ve got you all beat.. at work we make a POT of coffee using THREE scoops of CAFE BUSTELLO (expresso coffee)

What?  You work at *my* office? That super-strong stuff smells good, but… ICK!!!  But then, I’ve never been much of a coffee drinker, unless it’s mocha.  Chewy, whose coffee you can float a horse shoe in, harasses me for liking a little coffee with my milk and sugar. — Light, Love, & Laughter, Kitten, Goddess of Mischief "Thousands of years ago, cats were worshipped as gods. Cats have never forgotten this." – Anonymous "Just for today, do not worry;  Just for today, do not anger; Earn your living honestly; Honor your parents, teachers and elders; Show gratitude for every living thing."- Dr. Mikao Usui Before you buy.

Response:

I’ve got you all beat.. at work we make a POT of coffee using THREE scoops of CAFE BUSTELLO (expresso coffee) at home I make  A CUP of coffee using TWO SCOOPS (yes two scoops per cup) of the same coffee. (a scoop is 1/8 of a cup) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – When I was finally diagnosed at age 40 I was drinking between ten and fifteen pints of coffee per day … often instant coffee with a TABLESPOON of granules per cup. I find the International Coffees** make a wonderful creamer, especially with espresso…. AmMen **International Coffees are a line of instant coffee mixed with flavorings, sugar, and HeavenKnowsWhat. Before you buy.

– Nessa — does fuzzy logic tickle

Response:

  Has anyone else here tried to unknowingly self-medicate with caffeine   to that extreme?  Does anyone here even know someone who drinks that much coffee consistently?

I drank coffee from the age of about eight or nine … as a kid I would take a 30 oz flask of black coffee to school. In those days we had free school milk, so I would have half the coffee at morning break with the milk, and keep the rest for lunch. When I was finally diagnosed at age 40 I was drinking between ten and fifteen pints of coffee per day … often instant coffee with a TABLESPOON of granules per cup. What was interesting was that I didn’t get any sort of buzz, and could stop for a few days without any withdrawal symptoms apart from feeling more " unfocussed " Ian Ford

Response:

When I was finally diagnosed at age 40 I was drinking between ten and fifteen pints of coffee per day … often instant coffee with a TABLESPOON of granules per cup.

I find the International Coffees** make a wonderful creamer, especially with espresso…. AmMen **International Coffees are a line of instant coffee mixed with flavorings, sugar, and HeavenKnowsWhat. Before you buy.

Response:

Curious…. I remember hearing about a kind of bottled water with caffeine added to it(don’t remember brand name, tho). Anyone try to make coffee with *that*? Buny

Response:

His hands tremor, but otherwise, he is suffering no apparent ill effects.

It is possible that the tremors in the hands could be the result od something besides the caffeine (*could*).  My famyl has a history of hand tremors, which is a benign condition called "familial tremor" or "essential tremor".  It has to do with overcompensating for fine motor skills. http://www.parkinsonsinstitute.org/tremor.html Even though this says "parkinson’s", ET is *not* parkinson’s syndrome. Some things can make my hands tremor more-caffeine is one of them. Fatigue, stress(physical or emotional) can do it.   So are certain medications, such as my asthma meds.  But even when not on these meds, or when I got "off" of caffeine, my hands still tremor to some degree. Then again, his tremors can be something else entirely.  Like ADHD, it is a matter of finding out what it is *not* before one discovers what it *is*. Buny

Response:

[...] I now have no doubts that he’s self-medicating undiagnosed ADD and I want him to get assessed.  I managed to convince him to cut back to 10 cups a day and gradually to 5 for the sake of his health. So far, so good. Has anyone else here tried to unknowingly self-medicate with caffeine to that extreme?  Does anyone here even know someone who drinks that much coffee consistently?

ADDers do not measure coffee consumption in cups; the pot is the standard measure. Cutting back to 5 is good for your health. I might be exaggerating slightly, but perhaps the answer to your question is ‘yes’?

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [...] I now have no doubts that he’s self-medicating undiagnosed ADD and I want him to get assessed.  I managed to convince him to cut back to 10 cups a day and gradually to 5 for the sake of his health. So far, so good. Has anyone else here tried to unknowingly self-medicate with caffeine to that extreme?  Does anyone here even know someone who drinks that much coffee consistently? ADDers do not measure coffee consumption in cups; the pot is the standard measure. Cutting back to 5 is good for your health.

Yup…5 pots George I might be exaggerating slightly, but perhaps the answer to your question is ‘yes’?

Before you buy.

Response:

In the midst of my recent efforts to have my daughter and myself assessed for ADD, my new partner and I attended a CHADD meeting. There was a presentation given on diagnosing adults by the woman who had recently assessed me. My partner suddenly began to wonder if he might have it and said he should get assessed.  As the meeting was breaking up and right in front of the presenter I asked him, "So you really think you may have ADD?" "Well, not as bad as you do." he said. "Perhaps if you didn’t drink so much coffee, you might think differently." The presenter pointed out, as I already knew, that some people self-medicate with caffeine. Then a couple of days later I asked my partner just how much coffee he consumes in a average day, because I knew he drank a lot, but I had no idea how much. He told me that he drinks an average of 20-22 mugs of coffee each day! I was shocked!  I have scoured the net for info on long-term health effects of consuming that much caffeine and there is none.  I don’t think anyone else drinks that much coffee…certainly no one that has been part of any study,  Excessive intake is said to be about 10 cups and he drinks twice that!  There are only long-term studies on people consuming up to 650 mg of caffeine per day (about 6 cups) and there are potential serious effects on that.  The so-called toxic dose is 10,000 mg (about 100 cups of coffee).  Even so, my partner is consuming what would be considered an "overdose"…and then some! His hands tremor, but otherwise, he is suffering no apparent ill effects.  I worry about ulcers and heart irregularities.  He has only been drinking this much for about the last year, since he quit drinking alcohol. I now have no doubts that he’s self-medicating undiagnosed ADD and I want him to get assessed.  I managed to convince him to cut back to 10 cups a day and gradually to 5 for the sake of his health. So far, so good. Has anyone else here tried to unknowingly self-medicate with caffeine to that extreme?  Does anyone here even know someone who drinks that much coffee consistently?

Response:

snip His hands tremor, but otherwise, he is suffering no apparent ill effects.  I worry about ulcers and heart irregularities.

I did that once in grad school.  Ulcers are generally caused by bacteria or non-steroidal anti-inflamatory drugs.  High coffee intake can cause cardiac arrhythmias.  It’s pretty spooky but it goes away. He has only been drinking this much for about the last year, since he quit drinking alcohol. I now have no doubts that he’s self-medicating undiagnosed ADD and I want him to get assessed.  I managed to convince him to cut back to 10 cups a day and gradually to 5 for the sake of his health. So far, so good. Has anyone else here tried to unknowingly self-medicate with caffeine to that extreme?  Does anyone here even know someone who drinks that much coffee consistently?

It’s pretty hard to figure caffeine levels because it’s quite easy to make a cup of coffee four times as strong as the average weak North American coffee.  I could fix 5 cups that would have as much caffeine as 20 restaurant cups. – George Before you buy.

Response:

Question:

Richard: My psychiatrist just increased my Prozac to 30MG per day.  He’s reluctant to switch me to anything else since I had previously had a good response from Prozac.  Just be careful in increasing doses….. I was told that as doses of SSRIs increase, so does the risk of seizures.  I would assume that the doses would have to be tremendously high, but it may be worth it to have your serum levels of Prozac tested.  Finally, you may have to pay out of pocket for the test as most insurance companies still consider testing serum levels of Prozac to be experimental.  I haven’t had my blood drawn yet, so I’ll find out if United will or will not pay. Jeff

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jeff,      Thank you. I take 3×20mg Prozac with oxycontin and dilaudid. I thought that I was not getting the same relief from depression as when I use to take only 20 mg Prozac before I was hurt. Very interesting. I hate to switch to a tri-cyclic a-d,  but I might have to. I’ll check with my doc. Thanks Peace,   Richard Sullivan

Response:

  There is a question that I need to find out from any of you (inyour experiences – or any pain mgmt. MDs out there) about what I can expectfrom the Oxycontin.  I am currently taking 20MG twice a day.  It makes thepain tolerable, but doesn’t really erase it.  Is this the best that I should expect?

Your doc could titrate your meds up til you get the relief you need.  Also, he could prescribe something for breakthru pain, such as MSIR,or  OXYir.

Response:

Richard: Thank you SO much for taking the time to write.  To add to this information that seems to be little discussed, my Psychiatrist told me about some of the downsides to pain meds: ravenous appetite decreased libido dry mucus membranes (from the anticholinergic <sp? effects) personality change (anywhere from mild to severe) Plus, anyone out there on any anti-depressants, particularly the SSRI (Prozac, Effexor, etc), you may want to have your doc have serum levels for all meds taken.  Evidently, Oxycontin and these SSRI meds use the SAME liver enzyme pathway (P450) for metabolism.  Depending on the individual person, you may not receive the full benefits from one of the meds as the other one is "winning" out for dominance in the bloodstream.  Also, I was cautioned NOT to take Elavil (Amytriptoline) as an adjunct for pain mgmt as Oxycodone will increase the serum levels of Elavil as much as 400%. I’m not an MD, nor a pharmacist, but I thought that I’d share this info from personal experience. Thanks again for your help! Jeff

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jeff,      I guess it depends on what is ailing us, but on my first visit to my pain clinic, the evaluating Doc told me I would always have pain. He told me I would have remissions where the pain is so low it is like there is none. Not to be a downer but as someone recently said, that’s why we are called chronic. As far as Oxycontin, I have had good luck with it 6 months as my main med. I have never found it to be much longer lasting than 4 or 5 hours, but I like the fact it is clean of additives. After being moved up to where I could take 80 mg 4/day, I still wake up with a pain " alarm clock ". Right know I am shooting for a reduction in my average daily pain. Something we don’t talk alot about is something you brought up. I have gained over 40lbs since I got hurt. One of my meds has given me a sweet tooth, and my suspicion has always been on the oxycontin. Good luck. Peace, Richard

Response:

Jeff,      Thank you. I take 3×20mg Prozac with oxycontin and dilaudid. I thought that I was not getting the same relief from depression as when I use to take only 20 mg Prozac before I was hurt. Very interesting. I hate to switch to a tri-cyclic a-d,  but I might have to. I’ll check with my doc. Thanks Peace,   Richard Sullivan

Response:

Jeff, I too was started on 20mg. Within 6 months I was taking 160 mg. every 6 to 8 hours (and even that wasn’t holding me, when the Dr. asked me  to tell him Honestly was it holding) I soon saw that in the end it came to taking the pain medicine same rate as I was taking short acting meds.I went off of oxycontin when I had to take 560mg. a day. My Doc.. believes in giving what it takes and knows  it’s not some personal vendetta towards him that my tolerance is high. For some Oxycontin works very, very well. For me I was put on 300mg of methadone a day along with 16 mg. of daludid(?) up to every 4 hours.(which is to much for me, knocks me out. (My docs say I have a system the size of a large You WILL find the right dose for yourself. Just be honest with your pain doc. Let us know how you are doing – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dear all: After 3 years of chronic pain, 2 failed back surgeries at L4/5 and a herniated disc at C5/6, I finally took my physical therapist’s advise and went to my neurologist for pain management.  He’s a super MD and is willing to work with me with the meds.  I am going to have a last stab at epidurals with a new, top-notch anesthesiologist at a private hospital where I live. At any rate, it looks as though I will have to be on opiate pain meds for a LONG time.  There is a question that I need to find out from any of you (in your experiences – or any pain mgmt. MDs out there) about what I can expect from the Oxycontin.  I am currently taking 20MG twice a day.  It makes the pain tolerable, but doesn’t really erase it.  Is this the best that I should expect?  Or, should I be expecting total relief from pain?  I am reluctant to take high doses due to the "lovely" side-effects that I already have – weight gain, sleep disturbance, etc. Any advice or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. TIA, Jeff

Response:

Thank you for taking the time to write a response….  just to give additional info, a neurosurgeon did the second operation at the lumbar area. The MRI and Myelogram showed that there is considerable scar tissue not only on the disc, but also on the nerve root itself.  When they did an EMG study, it showed the first level of nerve damage.  I have a feeling that’s why they’re reluctant to do any further surgeries.  If you know of any websites that would be useful in my researching new and cutting-edge procedures, I would REALLY appreciate it as my docs are grateful that I take an active part in my treatment and welcome the research that I find. Thanks again, Jeff

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jeff, If Oxycontin completely erased pain, I think it would be touted as the "Miracle Drug"!  It helps me greatly, but never totally takes the pain away. When you say that you are going to be on Opiates for a long, long time, –may I make a suggestion?  Do with it what you please, but, I had one failed surgery before I met my neuro-surgeon (an orthopaedic surgeon did the failed surgery) and at that time had the same opinion as you, "I am NEVER having surgery again" and "I will just take the pills for the rest of my life"…although taking them again at some point in time may be inevitable, I think you owe yourself a chance at letting your neuro take a shot at fixing it.  I did and what a difference!  It has been 5 weeks now since I have had surgery, and the difference was noticed the same day that I had surgery.  My back is not yet perfect, it may never be, but I am not having to take opiates at this time, I feel like I have my brain back. I don’t know, I just thought to myself, I don’t want to be "ruled" by a little pill for the rest of my life if at all possible, if this operation works, yay! if it helps, good! and well, if it does not make the difference, well, then I am no worse off than I was before. Food for thought, I hope this helps, good luck! Cfische Dear all: After 3 years of chronic pain, 2 failed back surgeries at L4/5 and a herniated disc at C5/6, I finally took my physical therapist’s advise and went to my neurologist for pain management.  He’s a super MD and is willing to work with me with the meds.  I am going to have a last stab at epidurals with a new, top-notch anesthesiologist at a private hospital where I live. At any rate, it looks as though I will have to be on opiate pain meds for a LONG time.  There is a question that I need to find out from any of you (in your experiences – or any pain mgmt. MDs out there) about what I can expect from the Oxycontin.  I am currently taking 20MG twice a day.  It makes the pain tolerable, but doesn’t really erase it.  Is this the best that I should expect?  Or, should I be expecting total relief from pain?  I am reluctant to take high doses due to the "lovely" side-effects that I already have – weight gain, sleep disturbance, etc. Any advice or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. TIA, Jeff

Response:

Jeff,      I guess it depends on what is ailing us, but on my first visit to my pain clinic, the evaluating Doc told me I would always have pain. He told me I would have remissions where the pain is so low it is like there is none. Not to be a downer but as someone recently said, that’s why we are called chronic. As far as Oxycontin, I have had good luck with it 6 months as my main med. I have never found it to be much longer lasting than 4 or 5 hours, but I like the fact it is clean of additives. After being moved up to where I could take 80 mg 4/day, I still wake up with a pain " alarm clock ". Right know I am shooting for a reduction in my average daily pain. Something we don’t talk alot about is something you brought up. I have gained over 40lbs since I got hurt. One of my meds has given me a sweet tooth, and my suspicion has always been on the oxycontin. Good luck. Peace, Richard

Response:

Jeff, If Oxycontin completely erased pain, I think it would be touted as the "Miracle Drug"!  It helps me greatly, but never totally takes the pain away. When you say that you are going to be on Opiates for a long, long time, –may I make a suggestion?  Do with it what you please, but, I had one failed surgery before I met my neuro-surgeon (an orthopaedic surgeon did the failed surgery) and at that time had the same opinion as you, "I am NEVER having surgery again" and "I will just take the pills for the rest of my life"…although taking them again at some point in time may be inevitable, I think you owe yourself a chance at letting your neuro take a shot at fixing it.  I did and what a difference!  It has been 5 weeks now since I have had surgery, and the difference was noticed the same day that I had surgery.  My back is not yet perfect, it may never be, but I am not having to take opiates at this time, I feel like I have my brain back. I don’t know, I just thought to myself, I don’t want to be "ruled" by a little pill for the rest of my life if at all possible, if this operation works, yay! if it helps, good! and well, if it does not make the difference, well, then I am no worse off than I was before. Food for thought, I hope this helps, good luck! Cfische

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dear all: After 3 years of chronic pain, 2 failed back surgeries at L4/5 and a herniated disc at C5/6, I finally took my physical therapist’s advise and went to my neurologist for pain management.  He’s a super MD and is willing to work with me with the meds.  I am going to have a last stab at epidurals with a new, top-notch anesthesiologist at a private hospital where I live. At any rate, it looks as though I will have to be on opiate pain meds for a LONG time.  There is a question that I need to find out from any of you (in your experiences – or any pain mgmt. MDs out there) about what I can expect from the Oxycontin.  I am currently taking 20MG twice a day.  It makes the pain tolerable, but doesn’t really erase it.  Is this the best that I should expect?  Or, should I be expecting total relief from pain?  I am reluctant to take high doses due to the "lovely" side-effects that I already have – weight gain, sleep disturbance, etc. Any advice or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. TIA, Jeff

Response:

Dear all: After 3 years of chronic pain, 2 failed back surgeries at L4/5 and a herniated disc at C5/6, I finally took my physical therapist’s advise and went to my neurologist for pain management.  He’s a super MD and is willing to work with me with the meds.  I am going to have a last stab at epidurals with a new, top-notch anesthesiologist at a private hospital where I live. At any rate, it looks as though I will have to be on opiate pain meds for a LONG time.  There is a question that I need to find out from any of you (in your experiences – or any pain mgmt. MDs out there) about what I can expect from the Oxycontin.  I am currently taking 20MG twice a day.  It makes the pain tolerable, but doesn’t really erase it.  Is this the best that I should expect?  Or, should I be expecting total relief from pain?  I am reluctant to take high doses due to the "lovely" side-effects that I already have – weight gain, sleep disturbance, etc. Any advice or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. TIA, Jeff

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Question:

get a Rx for Xanax ( generic name = alprazolam ) when this happens, take 2 mg right away give it 20 minutes to kick in I’m on 40 mg Paxil / day and it took a while to get going, but I would say 10 weeks is long enough.  Maybe you would do better on a different SSRI. There are a lot of them.  Ask your doctor about trying a different one. — Larry – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi! This is my first post so please be gentle! I’ve been on Seroxat(Paxil) (30mg/day) for about 10 weeks for panic attacks / depression… it seems to help (most of the time)… however there are still occasions where I lose control in a big way…. Over the last week, I’ve been experiencing a couple of times, what I can only describe as "electric shocks"… similar to a just before a panic attack but rather than lasting a second or two it lasts for hours… with "shocks" every 10-15 seconds. Last night was agony… I had an appointment … I couldn’t remember whether it was 6:15pm or 6:30pm… so walking there I stopped outside a newagents (to get a paper to read if I had to wait)… it was closed. I stopped… turned round waked away… stopped…  walked back… stopped… I felt an electric bolt on the inside of my left arm…. my heart starts to beat… I started to panic… I feel as if I’m about to have a panic attack… but it never quite gets there… the shock starts repeating regularly… by the time I got to my appointment… I was a reck… I walked in the room and broke down… couldn’t talk at all… after a few minutes I decided that I really couldn’t go through with it and I rush out. Finally got home… somewhere safe… but the shocks were still going … I wanted to phone someone… to calm me down and reassure me…  but I really don’t want to impose… 5 hours later I make the call… they are out…I leave a message hoping they might phone me back… by 3am the shock are still going…. and I finally fall asleep of exhuastion… I’ve never had anything like this before… has anyone else? Any ideas what it is or how to cope with it? I really don’t want to go through this again. Mark

Response:

Hi! This is my first post so please be gentle! I’ve been on Seroxat(Paxil) (30mg/day) for about 10 weeks for panic attacks / depression… it seems to help (most of the time)… however there are still occasions where I lose control in a big way…. Over the last week, I’ve been experiencing a couple of times, what I can only describe as "electric shocks"… similar to a just before a panic attack but rather than lasting a second or two it lasts for hours… with "shocks" every 10-15 seconds. Last night was agony… I had an appointment … I couldn’t remember whether it was 6:15pm or 6:30pm… so walking there I stopped outside a newagents (to get a paper to read if I had to wait)… it was closed. I stopped… turned round waked away… stopped…  walked back… stopped… I felt an electric bolt on the inside of my left arm…. my heart starts to beat… I started to panic… I feel as if I’m about to have a panic attack… but it never quite gets there… the shock starts repeating regularly… by the time I got to my appointment… I was a reck… I walked in the room and broke down… couldn’t talk at all… after a few minutes I decided that I really couldn’t go through with it and I rush out. Finally got home… somewhere safe… but the shocks were still going … I wanted to phone someone… to calm me down and reassure me…  but I really don’t want to impose… 5 hours later I make the call… they are out…I leave a message hoping they might phone me back… by 3am the shock are still going…. and I finally fall asleep of exhuastion… I’ve never had anything like this before… has anyone else? Any ideas what it is or how to cope with it? I really don’t want to go through this again. Mark

Response:

what youre describing is EXACTLY what i experienced during effexor withdrawal.  i would be worried about some sort of med reaction, and i would CALL MY SHRINK IMMEDIATELY, and tell him word for word what you posted here about symptoms, maybe even read it to him over the phone – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Over the last week, I’ve been experiencing a couple of times, what I can only describe as "electric shocks"… similar to a just before a panic attack but rather than lasting a second or two it lasts for hours… with "shocks" every 10-15 seconds. Last night was agony… I had an appointment … I couldn’t remember whether it was 6:15pm or 6:30pm… so walking there I stopped outside a newagents (to get a paper to read if I had to wait)… it was closed. I stopped… turned round waked away… stopped…  walked back… stopped… I felt an electric bolt on the inside of my left arm…. my heart starts to beat… I started to panic… I feel as if I’m about to have a panic attack… but it never quite gets there… the shock starts repeating regularly… by the time I got to my appointment… I was a reck… I walked in the room and broke down… couldn’t talk at all… after a few minutes I decided that I really couldn’t go through with it and I rush out. Finally got home… somewhere safe… but the shocks were still going … I wanted to phone someone… to calm me down and reassure me…  but I really don’t want to impose… 5 hours later I make the call… they are out…I leave a message hoping they might phone me back… by 3am the shock are still going…. and I finally fall asleep of exhuastion… I’ve never had anything like this before… has anyone else? Any ideas what it is or how to cope with it? I really don’t want to go through this again. Mark

Response:

I have had this also, still do. I never did figure out whether is was a symptom of my anxiety or the cause of it. Althought I had the anxiety first. It kept me from sleeping a lot of nights and I still have it at times. I had EEGs and MRI’s and they found nothing. All I can say is that it’s just another sucky thing that your anxiety can do to you and keep you from sleeping and making you miserable. Believe me, I feel for you. LonelyGirl – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi! This is my first post so please be gentle! I’ve been on Seroxat(Paxil) (30mg/day) for about 10 weeks for panic attacks / depression… it seems to help (most of the time)… however there are still occasions where I lose control in a big way…. Over the last week, I’ve been experiencing a couple of times, what I can only describe as "electric shocks"… similar to a just before a panic attack but rather than lasting a second or two it lasts for hours… with "shocks" every 10-15 seconds. Last night was agony… I had an appointment … I couldn’t remember whether it was 6:15pm or 6:30pm… so walking there I stopped outside a newagents (to get a paper to read if I had to wait)… it was closed. I stopped… turned round waked away… stopped…  walked back… stopped… I felt an electric bolt on the inside of my left arm…. my heart starts to beat… I started to panic… I feel as if I’m about to have a panic attack… but it never quite gets there… the shock starts repeating regularly… by the time I got to my appointment… I was a reck… I walked in the room and broke down… couldn’t talk at all… after a few minutes I decided that I really couldn’t go through with it and I rush out. Finally got home… somewhere safe… but the shocks were still going … I wanted to phone someone… to calm me down and reassure me…  but I really don’t want to impose… 5 hours later I make the call… they are out…I leave a message hoping they might phone me back… by 3am the shock are still going…. and I finally fall asleep of exhuastion… I’ve never had anything like this before… has anyone else? Any ideas what it is or how to cope with it? I really don’t want to go through this again. Mark

Response:

I’ve been on Seroxat(Paxil) (30mg/day) for about 10 weeks for panic attacks / depression… it seems to help (most of the time)… however there are still occasions where I lose control in a big way…. Over the last week, I’ve been experiencing a couple of times, what I can only describe as "electric shocks"… similar to a just before a panic attack but rather than lasting a second or two it lasts for hours… with "shocks" every 10-15 seconds.

Funny this sounds exactly like Paxil withdrawal symptoms which I experienced firsthand. Are you skipping doses? Are you taking it all in one dose (if so perhaps you should try to split it into 2)? Anyway you should definitely talk to your doctor about it. In the past doctors weren’t aware of the problems of Paxil, but hopefully all are informed now. Good luck.

Response:

Thanks for the advice… I’ve made an appointment with my doctor… have to see what he says. The only common factor I can think of is both times I’ve had a couple of glasses of wine… although the electric shocks don’t happen every time… I’ve decided to give up the alcohol… it’s not going to be easy tho =o) Mark

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Question:

drownproofing it could save your life first, take a deep breath and hold it. next, relax. float with your arms level with your shoulders. legs pointed down, head under water, with the top of your head at the surface. do not tread water. to breathe, make one stroke down with both hands and arms simultaneously. blow out air as your face breaks the water surface, inhale a full breath quickly when your mouth and nose break the surface, and relax again going back to the float mode with the head not out of the surface. dump items that cause negative buoyancy as coins ,watch, keys chains, etc. repeat the steps continuously as needed.

Response:

Paul’s list on saving your life by drownproofing is well-timed for this part of the year. Thank you Paul. However, I seem to recall that within the last few years, there has been further information given out about how drownproofing can speed up hypothermia. Too much time with head in water, too much energy out-put, those sorts of things. drownproofing it could save your life first, take a deep breath and hold it. next, relax. float with your arms  level with your shoulders. legs pointed down, head under water, with

   the top of your head at the surface. do not tread water. to breathe, make one stroke down with both hands and arms simultaneously. blow out air as your face breaks the water surface, inhale a full breath

  quickly when your mouth and nose break the surface, and relax again   going back to the float mode with the head not out of the surface. dump items that cause negative buoyancy as coins ,watch, keys chains, etc. repeat the steps continuously as needed.

Any input from someone up to date on the latest in water-related hypothermia would be appreciated. Now is the season for such problems. Oh, and let’s try to stay on the boat, wear a pfd of some style of our choosing, or wear a survival suit. I don’t have a "Gumby" style suit, but do have a padded "Cruiser" suit by Mustang. Wonderful thing. Keeps me warm at the wheel, and even when sleeping off watch at night off shore. Hard to get out of if need to use the head, and the crotch is too low for short me, but otherwise, a very good thing. We wore our suits at night along the Washington coast this *summer* and felt very comfortable. One has to get out of the suit in the morning as the sun warms the air or you get wet from the inside. ANNE  (thanks Paul, again, for reminding us of the water being a danger) Public Access UNIX and Internet at (503) 220-1016 (2400-28800, N81)

Response:

Paul’s list on saving your life by drownproofing is well-timed for this part of the year. Thank you Paul. However, I seem to recall that within the last few years, there has been further information given out about how drownproofing can speed up hypothermia. Too much time with head in water, too much energy out-put, those sorts of things.

 I doubt that energy expenditure could be too much.  Drownproofing allows even poor swimmers to stay afloat for hours.  The hypothermia risk I think is a significant increased risk.  You can drown-proof with your legs tucked up.  This will reduce heat loss, but the head underwater is a worry.  A floatcoat would be a much better option. Especially compared to basic drownproofing, but not as good as a "gumby".  If caught overboard in a floatcoat, or other jacket, tighten the collar and waist drawstring to minimize the cold water exchange. Mark Anderson

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Paul’s list on saving your life by drownproofing is well-timed for this part of the year. Thank you Paul. However, I seem to recall that within the last few years, there has been further information given out about how drownproofing can speed up hypothermia. Too much time with head in water,  I doubt that energy expenditure could be too much.  Drownproofing allows even poor swimmers to stay afloat for hours.  The hypothermia risk I think is a significant increased risk.  You can drown-proof with your legs tucked up.  This will reduce heat loss, but the head underwater is a worry.  A floatcoat would be a much better option. exchange. Mark Anderson

At the risk of repeating what the previous post wrote, I don’t think the following can be said enough: Drownproofing is a life saving technique that is now somewhat discredited. From recent literature I have from the Canadian Coast Guard and the Canadian Red Cross ‘drownproofing’ will SUBSTANTIALLY reduce the amount of time a person can expect to remain alive in the water compared to other techniques. This includes simply treading water. As the other posts have stated this is becuase of the greatly increased heat loss through the head when is it is in the better thermal conducter; water. Most of our body’s heat loss is through the head. However, if the water is very warm, then it might make sense if a person is starting to have difficulty treading water. Of course if a PFD is in the equation then treading water ceases to be much of a concern. But hypothermia is still a very real problem in the cooler waters this time of year.Our lake was 3 degrees celsius when we pulled out last week-end. The Coast Guard literature went on to state that wearing a ‘float coat’ can increase one’s survival time many times over what it would be with a standard key-hole lifejacket.  

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Question:

Hello to everyone.  I am new to this and am so glad to find support from many others suffering from tinnitus.  It seems that nobody in my family or any of my friends understand just how troublesome tinnitus can be.  I only have T in my left ear and it absolutely drives me crazy!  Sometimes I think that my sinuses cause the T to be worse (like today for instance – I live in Michigan and the humidity is 100% – YUCK!)  Other times I think that my TMJ is causing the T since it is only on the left side of my jaw. And then I wonder if some of the medications that I am taking could be attributing to my T.  I take zoloft and xanax for anxiety.  I know that zoloft can cause tinnitus, but I have been taking it for a year now and I can’t just stop taking it.  I have to taper myself off of the medicine.  I also take two different medications for sinuses (claritin and rutuss) and high blood pressure medicine (atenelol).  Yes, I know, I sound like a real mess!  And I’m only 27 years old!  I just recently went to a health food store and purchased some herbs to try to help some of my problems.  I HATE being dependant on drugs!  Not only that, but most of them don’t even seem to work! The sad thing is, I know that I am grasping at straws to try and find the answer to where my T is coming from.  Some people seem to know exactly when their T started, but I can’t attribute the start of my tinnitus to an illness, taking aspirin, or anything else.   I have read a lot of messages from people who are wondering if xanax is a good medication to take for T.  If I may be blunt – PLEASE do not try xanax if you don’t absolutely have to.  I have been on it for a little over a year for anxiety and my body has become chemically dependant upon it.  My doctor is trying to slowly wean me off of it, but it is VERY DIFFICULT!  Every day I tell myself that this is the day that I am just going to stop taking my xanax!  But every day I end up taking 1 or 2, especially before I go to bed at night!  Anyway, not only is my body chemically dependant on xanax, but it doesn’t help my T AT ALL! Just recently I called the American Tinnitus Association to order the publication of the International Tinnitus Seminar which occured on July 12-15th, 1995.  The seminar was held in Portland and many tinnitus specialists attended, contributing their findings and treatments regarding tinnitus.  The publication costs $25.00 plus Shipping and Handling.   While I was on the phone, I was asked if I would like to subscribe to the American Tinnitus Association.  This includes Tinnitus magazines that come out 4 times a year and all sorts of information, books, an audio tape, and other things that come up throughout the year.  This was also $25.00. I just thought that I would share this information.  It is about 1:20 A.M. and I couldn’t sleep due to a strange pulsing ringing in my ear.  Gee, I wonder what that could be? If anyone would like the address, it is:      American Tinnitus Association      P.O. Box 5      Portland, OR  97207-0005 Or you can call and charge by phone at (503) 248-9985. If anyone else can’t sleep due to ringing in their ears, feel free to e-mail me anytime – I’ll probably be up and I love getting email! Leslie Grobbel

Response:

I too take Xanax and Zoloft.  I too only have T on my left side.  I too had not been bothered by T until about 4 months ago.  It just started….no reason I can think of.  ENT did a work up and said it is due to hearing loss and will probably get worse.  I am not buying his explanation for a few reasons, one of which is that I felt the "brush off" cuz T isn’t that exciting to an ENT.  I am trying Zinc and B12 sublingual.  No noticable difference.  My computer seems to make the T worse and I have taken to wearing earplugs when working on the computer.  My T sort of "comes and goes"….silent (or barely audible) for a few days….loud as heck for a few more.  You are correct about Xanax…very hard to get off once you start and I have been taking it for 3 years, so obviously if it was gonna work for T, it would have.  I plan on just checking in periodically and dealing with this thing best I can. Good Luck Steve

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