Question:

Selling collection of approximately 3,000 to 3,500 vinyl 12" records. There is a mixture of Rap/Hip Hop, Dance, R&B, Soul, Techno, and Funk from the 80’s and 90’s.   Most are 12" singles, some full albums. Some have picture sleeves, some have generic or label covers. Conditions are mixed, most are in Near Mint condition.  There is no list, sorry.  $1500 bid + shipping.

Response:

Here’s the link: http://page.auctions.yahoo.com/auction/43211597 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Selling collection of approximately 3,000 to 3,500 vinyl 12" records. There is a mixture of Rap/Hip Hop, Dance, R&B, Soul, Techno, and Funk from the 80’s and 90’s.   Most are 12" singles, some full albums. Some have picture sleeves, some have generic or label covers. Conditions are mixed, most are in Near Mint condition.  There is no list, sorry.  $1500 bid + shipping.

Response:

Question:

Does anyone else find doctor visits nerve wracking and depressing, especially when you have to go because you’re feeling worse?

Oh YES! I think it comes after years of having hope built up and then shattered. I also worry that the doctors are as frustrated with me as *I* am. I worry they will send me to psychiatry. ((((((Elahn One))))))) Debbie <<

Response:

Does anyone else find doctor visits nerve wracking and depressing, especially when you have to go because you’re feeling worse?

Response:

Yes, and also add to that extremely frustrating when you feel that they are saying to themseles, I wish this person would just go away, we are running out of options… Kristen Leigh

Response:

Yes, and also add to that extremely frustrating when you feel that they are saying to themseles, I wish this person would just go away, we are running out of options… Kristen Leigh

Some of you may know my long saga with my HMO and the hospital I work with. I won’t repeat it here, but my primary care doc, who also happens to be the first person to treat my asthma years ago has really turned on me.  I tried a few other primary docs within the group I have to choose from and had such horrid experiences, that I finally went back to my old doc.  He knows I changed around on him and he has been a real pill this last few months even when calling for routine refills on prescriptions. A few months ago, I called to schedule an appointment to discuss taking up scuba diving.  He would not even see me. He just had his nurse call back and say "Absolutely NOT!  No one with asthma should scuba dive."  I have since found out this is an old school of thought and I "might" be able to take it up. Then, I called for a refill on Serevent and Flovent – my asthma meds and just asked if I could try Singulair instead as I had heard it was better for migraine patients.  He said "You heard wrong."  No explanations.   Now I would really like to go in and discuss a trial of Topamax instead of waiting for my insurance change to take effect later this year which will allow me to go to a doctor that I choose.  My migraines are escalating once again and I am absolutely terrified of talking to this guy.  He is the gatekeeper for any referrals I might get.  The only neuro he is allowed to refer me to is a buddy of his that put me on Depakote and kept upping the dose in spite of my saying the tremors were getting bad.  He never once mentioned checking liver function tests.  Finally during a scheduled appointment that he was called away on, another neuro in the group caught the Depakote problem  and took me off it – naturally, she has since left the group and moved out of state – due to difference of opinion. I hate this feeling of knowing my doctor thinks I am a total waste of his time.  He sighs and shakes his head and the last time I was in his office was when he told me I was just depressed and he could not help me.  I have since been told differently by a psychiatrist and counselor I went to because of this doctor visit.  I feel so helpless and I hate it. Red

Response:

Red: I really feel for you.  So sorry you’re having to go through all this. Doctors can be such jerks at times. A necessary evil.  I think they get insecure when we know more than they do. I will say a special prayer for you tonight. Take Care. Love, Caroline.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yes, and also add to that extremely frustrating when you feel that they are saying to themseles, I wish this person would just go away, we are running out of options… Kristen Leigh Some of you may know my long saga with my HMO and the hospital I work with. I won’t repeat it here, but my primary care doc, who also happens to be the first person to treat my asthma years ago has really turned on me.  I tried a few other primary docs within the group I have to choose from and had such horrid experiences, that I finally went back to my old doc.  He knows I changed around on him and he has been a real pill this last few months even when calling for routine refills on prescriptions. A few months ago, I called to schedule an appointment to discuss taking up scuba diving.  He would not even see me. He just had his nurse call back and say "Absolutely NOT!  No one with asthma should scuba dive."  I have since found out this is an old school of thought and I "might" be able to take it up. Then, I called for a refill on Serevent and Flovent – my asthma meds and just asked if I could try Singulair instead as I had heard it was better for migraine patients.  He said "You heard wrong."  No explanations. Now I would really like to go in and discuss a trial of Topamax instead of waiting for my insurance change to take effect later this year which will allow me to go to a doctor that I choose.  My migraines are escalating once again and I am absolutely terrified of talking to this guy.  He is the gatekeeper for any referrals I might get.  The only neuro he is allowed to refer me to is a buddy of his that put me on Depakote and kept upping the dose in spite of my saying the tremors were getting bad.  He never once mentioned checking liver function tests.  Finally during a scheduled appointment that he was called away on, another neuro in the group caught the Depakote problem  and took me off it – naturally, she has since left the group and moved out of state – due to difference of opinion. I hate this feeling of knowing my doctor thinks I am a total waste of his time.  He sighs and shakes his head and the last time I was in his office was when he told me I was just depressed and he could not help me.  I have since been told differently by a psychiatrist and counselor I went to because of this doctor visit.  I feel so helpless and I hate it. Red

Response:

Many a patient is better informed and actually smarter than their doctor(s). They’re probably afraid of being manipulated on some level.

Response:

One of the things that vexes me the most about doctor visits is the lectures they give me when I have to cancel an appt due to a raging (10+) migraine….they always tell me that that’s the best time to come in. They don’t seem to understand that when the pain reaches that level, the thought of being jostled about in a car for 20 minutes, only to wait for over 2 hours in a loud brightly lit room, to see the doc for 15 minutes can exacerbate the pain to the point where I want to cry or scream or collapse and puke my guts out. And considering how stressful and infuriorating doc visits can be, that’s the last thing I need at such a point. Raven "Don’t think of it as dying, think of it as leaving early to avoid the rush."

Response:

Why do they think it’s a good time to go in?  I always feel like my dr is vexed with me because I can’t focus on the question and I give fuzzy answers, and then I can’t remember most of the visit anyway.  Seems like a waste of both of our times.  Oh and there is the lovely "shining of the pen light in your eyes thingy!"  I’m with you Raven. Dawn – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – One of the things that vexes me the most about doctor visits is the lectures they give me when I have to cancel an appt due to a raging (10+) migraine….they always tell me that that’s the best time to come in. They don’t seem to understand that when the pain reaches that level, the thought of being jostled about in a car for 20 minutes, only to wait for over 2 hours in a loud brightly lit room, to see the doc for 15 minutes can exacerbate the pain to the point where I want to cry or scream or collapse and puke my guts out. And considering how stressful and infuriorating doc visits can be, that’s the last thing I need at such a point. Raven "Don’t think of it as dying, think of it as leaving early to avoid the rush."

Response:

I went to the ER once for a migraine cause it was the worst one I’ve ever had.  They gave me my first Imitrex injection.  I couldn’t take anything else because of the vomiting.  It was horrible.  Riding in the car, motion sickness added to the nausea.  Then when I got to the brightly lit hospital, there were babies crying…loud.  I was filling out paperwork FIRST before I could see the doc and I had to leave in the middle of the paperwork to go puke for the 3rd time!  Then I had to go back and finish the paperwork and I finally saw a doctor.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Why do they think it’s a good time to go in?  I always feel like my dr is vexed with me because I can’t focus on the question and I give fuzzy answers, and then I can’t remember most of the visit anyway. Seems like a waste of both of our times.  Oh and there is the lovely "shining of the pen light in your eyes thingy!"  I’m with you Raven. Dawn One of the things that vexes me the most about doctor visits is the lectures they give me when I have to cancel an appt due to a raging (10+) migraine….they always tell me that that’s the best time to come in. They don’t seem to understand that when the pain reaches that level, the thought of being jostled about in a car for 20 minutes, only to wait for over 2 hours in a loud brightly lit room, to see the doc for 15 minutes can exacerbate the pain to the point where I want to cry or scream or collapse and puke my guts out. And considering how stressful and infuriorating doc visits can be, that’s the last thing I need at such a point. Raven "Don’t think of it as dying, think of it as leaving early to avoid the rush."

Response:

Question:

writes: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Two years ago my allergies really gave me trouble. The progression ended up with me getting pneumonia in April lasting two months until June. At the time I was 38 yrs old reasonably healthy jogging and taking karate up until I couldn’t breath after a run. I started to get sick and thought I had the Flu. But it held on and I went to the Dr.   and I was diagnosed with pneumonia. I was really sick for about 2 weeks and off work for 2 months. I was referred to a Lung Specialist in the midst of all this and had the lung function test as well as sputum tests. He told me that I had asthma as a result of the pneumonia and some scarring in my lungs. He also said that the sputum tests show that I have a fungus in my lungs called Asperligosis (I hope spelling doesn’t count here) I was put on medications Pulmicort and Ventolin. Every morning about an hour or so after I get up I get tight in my chest and hack up some interesting samples of goo. I usually get it up in an hour or so and usually don’t need a shot of my ventolin. But I find now that I don’t have the wind like I had pre-pneumonia. QUESTION— Is the Asperligosis fungi causing my asthma to be worse? Is the fungus actually causing my asthma as I never had it before? Is there any medications out that can rid me of this fungus? I would appreciate any feed back anyone can give me. Thank you.                                    Bob

Aspergillosis is a mold, causing infections in the external ear.Occasionally lesions appear in the skin,nasal sinuses,orbit,bronchi,lungs or other internal organs. Stanley Lepelstat  Phramacy Consultant Easy access to homeopathy   http://www.mja.net/accupathy Email your address for a free brochure on Homeopathy —

Question:

Allen, I’ve never heard of Cymbalta, what’s its closest relative ? Sounds like you’ve tried them all. Good luck my friend. LJ

It’s a new SNRI cooked up recently by those lovely folks at Eli-Lilly that also gave us Prozac. P. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve been prescribed Cymbalta by my MD yesterday. 30mg pills and I am told to increase to 60mg when I feel ready and if I am not feeling any side effects. Yesterday was the first day I was on it and I didn’t have any side effects except for fatique. The Fatique seems less today. Do people think this may possible be a good drug for panic disorder, depression and dysthymia? I’ve been off medication for almost a year, so now I’m on klonopin 1mg 2x a day, along with Restoril 15mg-30mg at night as needed and the Cymbalta of course. Drugs prior to this always seem to work for a few short weeks, but they always poop out. I’ve been on Lexapro, Celexa, Zoloft, Paxil, Effexor XR, Imipramine, Desipramine, and Amitryptiline, Xanax, Valium, Ativan and Provigil for depression and anxiety. I’m just looking for any words of help and information. I hope this drug works out for me as I don’t know what else there is for me to try. I see a psychiatrist sometime this week if she can get me in and I’ll see what she says about the current regimine I am on. Thanks for any ideas and help. — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at:

Question:

"Maryann" <sableme…@rcn.com

wrote in message

news:3D4938E2.6070709@rcn.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Janus wrote: It’s pathos and looney tunes on this ng. People who yet to reveal they themselves have the foggiest notion of the most basic facts about TS, are manicly writing letters to a doctor whose been dx’ing and treating TS for 31 years,  and telling him he got it wrong about TS, lol People with the grandiose delusion they know more than the experts,

have

a dx alright,  but its not TS! Classic manic depression is a differential diagnosis, often confused and misdiagnosed as Ts, ADHD. One of the big things people with manic depression do, is write complaints, and/or  write eminent specialists how they got it all

wrong..

If I ever crosspost anything about the looney tunes engaged in by

posters

to this ng,  it will be to the manic ng.. But…but…but… I know for a fact that Dr. Jankovic prescribes stimulant medication to *some* kids with co-morbid TS/ADHD…this proves not only that he "knows nothing about TS", but that he is also EVIL…pure EVIL… I say we burn him.

http://www.bcm.tmc.edu/neurol/jankovic/biography.htm Biography:  Professor of Neurology, Director, Parkinson’s Disease Center and Movement Disorders Clinic, Department of Neurology, Baylor College of Medicine, Houston, Texas After receiving his M.D. degree in 1973, Dr. Jankovic completed medicine internship at Baylor College of Medicine, Houston. He obtained his neurological training at the Neurological Institute (NI), Columbia University, New York City, where he served as the Chief Resident until 1977. While at the NI he became interested in movement disorders and obtained additional training with Stanley Fahn, M.D. In 1977 he joined the faculty of Baylor College of Medicine and established the Parkinson’s Disease Center and Movement Disorders Clinic (PDCMDC). Dr. Jankovic was promoted to a full professor of Neurology and a senior attending at The Methodist Hospital in 1988. In 1992, the National Parkinson Foundation recognized the PDCMDC as a "Center of Excellence" and in 2001 the Huntington Disease Society of America recognized the PDCMDC as "HDSA Center of Excellence". Dr. Jankovic has conducted numerous clinical trials and has published over 600 original articles and chapters. He has edited or co-edited 20 books and volumes including standard textbooks such as Parkinson’s Disease and Movement Disorders and Surgery of Movement Disorders. In addition to Parkinson disease and related disorders, these publications have covered tremors, dystonia, Tourette syndrome, Huntington disease, myoclonus, tardive dyskinesia, restless legs syndrome, paroxysmal dyskinesias, various neurodegenerative disorders, and surgical and experimental therapeutics of movement disorders. Dr. Jankovic is an editor of several on-line books and journals including Neurology in Clinical Practice. He has also served on the editorial boards of Neurology, Movement Disorders, Journal of Neurology Neurosurgery and Psychiatry, Neurobase, Acta Neurologica Scandinavica, Clinical Neuropharmacology and other journals. Dr. Jankovic is past president of the international Movement Disorder Society and of the Houston Neurological Society. Certified by the American Board of Psychiatry and Neurology (ABPN), he has been an examiner for the ABPN and for the American Board of Neurological Surgeons. He is a fellow of the American Academy of Neurology (AAN), and active member of the American Neurological Association, Society for Neuroscience, Parkinson Study Group, Tourette Syndrome Study Group, Dystonia Study Group, Huntington Disease Study Group, Tremor Research and Investigation Group, and other professional and scientific organizations. Dr. Jankovic has organized and chaired numerous national and international scientific symposia. Since 1990, along with Drs. Fahn, Marsden, Hallett and Jenner, he has co-directed the annual course "A Comprehensive Review of Movement Disorders", in Aspen, Colorado. He has also directed the annual AAN course on Movement Disorders, Parkinson’s Disease and Movement Disorders Update, and, along with Dr. Lang, has co-directed the annual seminar "Unusual Movement Disorders". A member of the AAN educational committee, he served as the chairman of the A/V subcommittee. He is current or past member of the scientific and medical advisory boards of many national foundations including the Dystonia Medical Research Foundation, International Tremor Foundation, Tourette Syndrome Association, Society for Progressive Supranuclear Palsy, Myoclonus Research Foundation, and The Bachmann-Strauss Dystonia and Parkinson Foundation. He is the founder and past chairman of the Medical Advisory Board for the Benign Essential Blepharospasm Research Foundation. Dr. Jankovic has served as the medical director of regional associations including the Houston Area Parkinsonism Society (HAPS) and regional chapters of national support groups. Dr. Jankovic is a recipient of several prestigious awards and has been invited as a named lecturer and a visiting professor to many U.S. and foreign universities. Dr. Jankovic is listed in Best Doctors in America, America’s Top Doctors, and in Who’s Who in America, Who’s Who in World, Who’s Who in Health and Medical Services, and in Who’s Who in Science and Engineering. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

— A child, however, who had no important job and could only see things as his eyes showed them to him, went up to the carriage.        "The Emperor is naked," he said. —Hans Christian Anderson Project Gutenberg Fine Literature Digitally Republished http://promo.net/pg/index.html

Response:

In article <MPG.17b2fb9773c3b2989…@news.alt.net

,

Janus  <Ja…@nospam.com

wrote: It’s pathos and looney tunes on this ng. People who yet to reveal they themselves have the foggiest notion of the most basic facts about TS, are manicly writing letters to a doctor whose been dx’ing and treating TS for 31 years,  and telling him he got it wrong about TS, lol People with the grandiose delusion they know more than the experts,  have a dx alright,  but its not TS!  

Its quite common that people with a condition know more about it than the ‘experts’. Face blindness is a good example, I actually know the people involved here. The original face blindness tests involved showing an entire person and/or head. People who experienced face blindness where passing the tests, and posting on discussion boards about the problems with them. Finally a neurology student sees the discussions and not being full of himself and his ‘expertise’ decides they might be right, and sets out to make a valid test. He first proved the old tests invalid by showing that people still passed them even when the faces where removed from the pictures! —       Be a counter terrorist perpetrate random senseless acts of kindness      Rave: Immanentization of the Eschaton in a Temporary Autonomous Zone.   C/C++/Perl Linux/Unix resume: http://www.farviolet.com/~entropy/resume.txt

Response:

On Thu, 1 Aug 2002 09:03:10 -0400, in article <MPG.17b2fb9773c3b2989…@news.alt.net

,

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Janus <Ja…@nospam.com

wrote: It’s pathos and looney tunes on this ng. People who yet to reveal they themselves have the foggiest notion of the most basic facts about TS, are manicly writing letters to a doctor whose been dx’ing and treating TS for 31 years,  and telling him he got it wrong about TS, lol People with the grandiose delusion they know more than the experts,  have a dx alright,  but its not TS!   Classic manic depression is a differential diagnosis, often confused and misdiagnosed as Ts, ADHD. One of the big things people with manic depression do, is write complaints, and/or  write eminent specialists how they got it all wrong.. If I ever crosspost anything about the looney tunes engaged in by posters to this ng,  it will be to the manic ng..

Do you have TS? Blurt

Response:

Doctors are just everyday people who can read way too much about stuff that has little bearing on reality. the folk in this form deal with people (read doctors) who deal with Tourettes mostly though some third or fourth-hand form. first-hand, being someone who has the condition. second hand, being someone, like a mother, who deals with the condition. and third-hand, being someone who might writes about these conditions. fourth-hand, may be a G.P, or even perhaps a geneticist. So don’t go wasting all your energy projecting it all into the rebuttal of one minor disagreement you had with what TSNW says. When your intentions are so meaningless, anything you say therein will have little credence to anybody here you are maybe hoping to influence. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -On Thu, 1 Aug 2002 14:50:09 +0100, "lurker" <spam@nospam

wrote: "Maryann" <sableme…@rcn.com wrote in message news:3D4938E2.6070709@rcn.com… Janus wrote: It’s pathos and looney tunes on this ng. People who yet to reveal they themselves have the foggiest notion of the most basic facts about TS, are manicly writing letters to a doctor whose been dx’ing and treating TS for 31 years,  and telling him he got it wrong about TS, lol People with the grandiose delusion they know more than the experts, have a dx alright,  but its not TS! Classic manic depression is a differential diagnosis, often confused and misdiagnosed as Ts, ADHD. One of the big things people with manic depression do, is write complaints, and/or  write eminent specialists how they got it all wrong.. If I ever crosspost anything about the looney tunes engaged in by posters to this ng,  it will be to the manic ng.. But…but…but… I know for a fact that Dr. Jankovic prescribes stimulant medication to *some* kids with co-morbid TS/ADHD…this proves not only that he "knows nothing about TS", but that he is also EVIL…pure EVIL… I say we burn him. http://www.bcm.tmc.edu/neurol/jankovic/biography.htm Biography: Professor of Neurology, Director, Parkinson’s Disease Center and Movement Disorders Clinic, Department of Neurology, Baylor College of Medicine, Houston, Texas After receiving his M.D. degree in 1973, Dr. Jankovic completed medicine internship at Baylor College of Medicine, Houston. He obtained his neurological training at the Neurological Institute (NI), Columbia University, New York City, where he served as the Chief Resident until 1977. While at the NI he became interested in movement disorders and obtained additional training with Stanley Fahn, M.D. In 1977 he joined the faculty of Baylor College of Medicine and established the Parkinson’s Disease Center and Movement Disorders Clinic (PDCMDC). Dr. Jankovic was promoted to a full professor of Neurology and a senior attending at The Methodist Hospital in 1988. In 1992, the National Parkinson Foundation recognized the PDCMDC as a "Center of Excellence" and in 2001 the Huntington Disease Society of America recognized the PDCMDC as "HDSA Center of Excellence". Dr. Jankovic has conducted numerous clinical trials and has published over 600 original articles and chapters. He has edited or co-edited 20 books and volumes including standard textbooks such as Parkinson’s Disease and Movement Disorders and Surgery of Movement Disorders. In addition to Parkinson disease and related disorders, these publications have covered tremors, dystonia, Tourette syndrome, Huntington disease, myoclonus, tardive dyskinesia, restless legs syndrome, paroxysmal dyskinesias, various neurodegenerative disorders, and surgical and experimental therapeutics of movement disorders. Dr. Jankovic is an editor of several on-line books and journals including Neurology in Clinical Practice. He has also served on the editorial boards of Neurology, Movement Disorders, Journal of Neurology Neurosurgery and Psychiatry, Neurobase, Acta Neurologica Scandinavica, Clinical Neuropharmacology and other journals. Dr. Jankovic is past president of the international Movement Disorder Society and of the Houston Neurological Society. Certified by the American Board of Psychiatry and Neurology (ABPN), he has been an examiner for the ABPN and for the American Board of Neurological Surgeons. He is a fellow of the American Academy of Neurology (AAN), and active member of the American Neurological Association, Society for Neuroscience, Parkinson Study Group, Tourette Syndrome Study Group, Dystonia Study Group, Huntington Disease Study Group, Tremor Research and Investigation Group, and other professional and scientific organizations. Dr. Jankovic has organized and chaired numerous national and international scientific symposia. Since 1990, along with Drs. Fahn, Marsden, Hallett and Jenner, he has co-directed the annual course "A Comprehensive Review of Movement Disorders", in Aspen, Colorado. He has also directed the annual AAN course on Movement Disorders, Parkinson’s Disease and Movement Disorders Update, and, along with Dr. Lang, has co-directed the annual seminar "Unusual Movement Disorders". A member of the AAN educational committee, he served as the chairman of the A/V subcommittee. He is current or past member of the scientific and medical advisory boards of many national foundations including the Dystonia Medical Research Foundation, International Tremor Foundation, Tourette Syndrome Association, Society for Progressive Supranuclear Palsy, Myoclonus Research Foundation, and The Bachmann-Strauss Dystonia and Parkinson Foundation. He is the founder and past chairman of the Medical Advisory Board for the Benign Essential Blepharospasm Research Foundation. Dr. Jankovic has served as the medical director of regional associations including the Houston Area Parkinsonism Society (HAPS) and regional chapters of national support groups. Dr. Jankovic is a recipient of several prestigious awards and has been invited as a named lecturer and a visiting professor to many U.S. and foreign universities. Dr. Jankovic is listed in Best Doctors in America, America’s Top Doctors, and in Who’s Who in America, Who’s Who in World, Who’s Who in Health and Medical Services, and in Who’s Who in Science and Engineering. — A child, however, who had no important job and could only see things as his eyes showed them to him, went up to the carriage.        "The Emperor is naked," he said. —Hans Christian Anderson Project Gutenberg Fine Literature Digitally Republished http://promo.net/pg/index.html

Response:

On Thu, 01 Aug 2002 14:00:08 GMT, "John Morten Malerbakken" <John.Mor…@malerbakken.com

wrote: Janus, You would be surprised to know the number of people on this group who also have TS themselves. It is easier to focus on th children for many reason, as most of us believe that there is one place that we could be able to make a difference.

I also think they make good distractions. I once said to someone who wanted to put kids in a wedding that i likened it to putting a bowl of swimming fish in a room.

Response:

"Janus" <Ja…@nospam.com

wrote in message

news:MPG.17b2fb9773c3b29896bb@news.alt.net…

It’s pathos and looney tunes on this ng.

Then  leave.    Ooops, block sender?  Ok.  Gone now.

Response:

in article MPG.17b31ca568da8276989…@news.alt.net, Janus at Ja…@nospam.com wrote on 8/1/02 10:24 AM: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

In article <B96EB4F1.1479A%spock…@bellsouth.net, spock…@bellsouth.net says… in article MPG.17b2fb9773c3b2989…@news.alt.net, Janus at Ja…@nospam.com wrote on 8/1/02 8:03 AM: It’s pathos and looney tunes on this ng. People who yet to reveal they themselves have the foggiest notion of the most basic facts about TS, are manicly writing letters to a doctor whose been dx’ing and treating TS for 31 years,  and telling him he got it wrong about TS, lol People with the grandiose delusion they know more than the experts,  have a dx alright,  but its not TS! Classic manic depression is a differential diagnosis, often confused and misdiagnosed as Ts, ADHD. One of the big things people with manic depression do, is write complaints, and/or  write eminent specialists how they got it all wrong.. If I ever crosspost anything about the looney tunes engaged in by posters to this ng,  it will be to the manic ng.. Have you ever heard the term:  Science now believes??? The day the medical profession professes to ‘know all there is about anything’ is the same day I will doubt their credibility as a profession. "Experts" can be wrong, and have been known to have been wrong. It is not a big deal. A reputable "expert" welcomes input. nuff said. Paula go to other doctors, until you find an eminent specialist who agrees with you,  and get the other eminent specialist to approach dr jancovic and argue the case. You don’t go writing eminent specialists like a bunch of grandiose manics, would, telling them they are wrong on _your_ say so.. lol

And, why the hell not????? I have absolutely no problem giving anyone my 2 cents worth. pfffft…. Paula —

Response:

Janus writes:

It’s pathos and looney tunes on this ng.

Didn’t used to be…

People who yet to reveal they themselves have the foggiest notion of the most basic facts about TS, are manicly writing letters to a doctor whose been dx’ing and treating TS for 31 years,  and telling him he got it wrong about TS, lol

The doc who posits that behavioral disorders are part and parcel of TS is being defended by the guy/gal/sockpuppet  who states that only people who don’t engage in personal attacks or start pissing contests are presumed to have TS…

People with the grandiose delusion they know more than the experts,  have a dx alright,  but its not TS!   Classic manic depression is a differential diagnosis, often confused and misdiagnosed as Ts, ADHD. One of the big things people with manic depression do, is write complaints, and/or  write eminent specialists how they got it all wrong.. If I ever crosspost anything about the looney tunes engaged in by posters to this ng,  it will be to the manic ng..

JANus…JANkovic…nah…..that would be Paranoid Delusions…

Response:

–  xxxx "MomN82R" <momn…@aol.com

wrote in message

news:20020801225752.28506.00000848@mb-cs.aol.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Janus writes: It’s pathos and looney tunes on this ng. Didn’t used to be… People who yet to reveal they themselves have the foggiest notion of the most basic facts about TS, are manicly writing letters to a doctor whose been dx’ing and treating TS for 31 years,  and telling him he got it wrong about TS, lol The doc who posits that behavioral disorders are part and parcel of TS is

being

defended by the guy/gal/sockpuppet  who states that only people who don’t engage in personal attacks or start pissing contests are presumed to have

TS…

People with the grandiose delusion they know more than the experts,  have a dx alright,  but its not TS! Classic manic depression is a differential diagnosis, often confused and misdiagnosed as Ts, ADHD. One of the big things people with manic depression do, is write complaints, and/or  write eminent specialists how they got it all wrong.. If I ever crosspost anything about the looney tunes engaged in by posters to this ng,  it will be to the manic ng.. JANus…JANkovic…nah…..that would be Paranoid Delusions…

ROFL…..brilliant!!!!!! JANnybravo, uh, uh, I meant jennybravo…. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

in article MPG.17b2fb9773c3b2989…@news.alt.net, Janus at Ja…@nospam.com wrote on 8/1/02 8:03 AM: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

It’s pathos and looney tunes on this ng. People who yet to reveal they themselves have the foggiest notion of the most basic facts about TS, are manicly writing letters to a doctor whose been dx’ing and treating TS for 31 years,  and telling him he got it wrong about TS, lol People with the grandiose delusion they know more than the experts,  have a dx alright,  but its not TS! Classic manic depression is a differential diagnosis, often confused and misdiagnosed as Ts, ADHD. One of the big things people with manic depression do, is write complaints, and/or  write eminent specialists how they got it all wrong.. If I ever crosspost anything about the looney tunes engaged in by posters to this ng,  it will be to the manic ng..

Have you ever heard the term:  Science now believes??? The day the medical profession professes to ‘know all there is about anything’ is the same day I will doubt their credibility as a profession. "Experts" can be wrong, and have been known to have been wrong. It is not a big deal. A reputable "expert" welcomes input. nuff said. Paula —

Response:

In article <B96EB4F1.1479A%spock…@bellsouth.net

,

spock…@bellsouth.net says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

in article MPG.17b2fb9773c3b2989…@news.alt.net, Janus at Ja…@nospam.com wrote on 8/1/02 8:03 AM: It’s pathos and looney tunes on this ng. People who yet to reveal they themselves have the foggiest notion of the most basic facts about TS, are manicly writing letters to a doctor whose been dx’ing and treating TS for 31 years,  and telling him he got it wrong about TS, lol People with the grandiose delusion they know more than the experts,  have a dx alright,  but its not TS! Classic manic depression is a differential diagnosis, often confused and misdiagnosed as Ts, ADHD. One of the big things people with manic depression do, is write complaints, and/or  write eminent specialists how they got it all wrong.. If I ever crosspost anything about the looney tunes engaged in by posters to this ng,  it will be to the manic ng.. Have you ever heard the term:  Science now believes??? The day the medical profession professes to ‘know all there is about anything’ is the same day I will doubt their credibility as a profession. "Experts" can be wrong, and have been known to have been wrong. It is not a big deal. A reputable "expert" welcomes input. nuff said. Paula

go to other doctors, until you find an eminent specialist who agrees with you,  and get the other eminent specialist to approach dr jancovic and argue the case. You don’t go writing eminent specialists like a bunch of grandiose manics, would, telling them they are wrong on _your_ say so.. lol

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -lurker wrote:

"Maryann" <sableme…@rcn.com wrote in message news:3D4938E2.6070709@rcn.com… Janus wrote: It’s pathos and looney tunes on this ng. People who yet to reveal they themselves have the foggiest notion of the most basic facts about TS, are manicly writing letters to a doctor whose been dx’ing and treating TS for 31 years,  and telling him he got it wrong about TS, lol People with the grandiose delusion they know more than the experts, have a dx alright,  but its not TS! Classic manic depression is a differential diagnosis, often confused and misdiagnosed as Ts, ADHD. One of the big things people with manic depression do, is write complaints, and/or  write eminent specialists how they got it all wrong.. If I ever crosspost anything about the looney tunes engaged in by posters to this ng,  it will be to the manic ng.. But…but…but… I know for a fact that Dr. Jankovic prescribes stimulant medication to *some* kids with co-morbid TS/ADHD…this proves not only that he "knows nothing about TS", but that he is also EVIL…pure EVIL… I say we burn him. http://www.bcm.tmc.edu/neurol/jankovic/biography.htm Biography:  Professor of Neurology, Director, Parkinson’s Disease Center and Movement Disorders Clinic, Department of Neurology, Baylor College of Medicine, Houston, Texas After receiving his M.D. degree in 1973, Dr. Jankovic completed medicine internship at Baylor College of Medicine, Houston. He obtained his neurological training at the Neurological Institute (NI), Columbia University, New York City, where he served as the Chief Resident until 1977. While at the NI he became interested in movement disorders and obtained additional training with Stanley Fahn, M.D. In 1977 he joined the faculty of Baylor College of Medicine and established the Parkinson’s Disease Center and Movement Disorders Clinic (PDCMDC). Dr. Jankovic was promoted to a full professor of Neurology and a senior attending at The Methodist Hospital in 1988. In 1992, the National Parkinson Foundation recognized the PDCMDC as a "Center of Excellence" and in 2001 the Huntington Disease Society of America recognized the PDCMDC as "HDSA Center of Excellence". Dr. Jankovic has conducted numerous clinical trials and has published over 600 original articles and chapters. He has edited or co-edited 20 books and volumes including standard textbooks such as Parkinson’s Disease and Movement Disorders and Surgery of Movement Disorders. In addition to Parkinson disease and related disorders, these publications have covered tremors, dystonia, Tourette syndrome, Huntington disease, myoclonus, tardive dyskinesia, restless legs syndrome, paroxysmal dyskinesias, various neurodegenerative disorders, and surgical and experimental therapeutics of movement disorders. Dr. Jankovic is an editor of several on-line books and journals including Neurology in Clinical Practice. He has also served on the editorial boards of Neurology, Movement Disorders, Journal of Neurology Neurosurgery and Psychiatry, Neurobase, Acta Neurologica Scandinavica, Clinical Neuropharmacology and other journals. Dr. Jankovic is past president of the international Movement Disorder Society and of the Houston Neurological Society. Certified by the American Board of Psychiatry and Neurology (ABPN), he has been an examiner for the ABPN and for the American Board of Neurological Surgeons. He is a fellow of the American Academy of Neurology (AAN), and active member of the American Neurological Association, Society for Neuroscience, Parkinson Study Group, Tourette Syndrome Study Group, Dystonia Study Group, Huntington Disease Study Group, Tremor Research and Investigation Group, and other professional and scientific organizations. Dr. Jankovic has organized and chaired numerous national and international scientific symposia. Since 1990, along with Drs. Fahn, Marsden, Hallett and Jenner, he has co-directed the annual course "A Comprehensive Review of Movement Disorders", in Aspen, Colorado. He has also directed the annual AAN course on Movement Disorders, Parkinson’s Disease and Movement Disorders Update, and, along with Dr. Lang, has co-directed the annual seminar "Unusual Movement Disorders". A member of the AAN educational committee, he served as the chairman of the A/V subcommittee. He is current or past member of the scientific and medical advisory boards of many national foundations including the Dystonia Medical Research Foundation, International Tremor Foundation, Tourette Syndrome Association, Society for Progressive Supranuclear Palsy, Myoclonus Research Foundation, and The Bachmann-Strauss Dystonia and Parkinson Foundation. He is the founder and past chairman of the Medical Advisory Board for the Benign Essential Blepharospasm Research Foundation. Dr. Jankovic has served as the medical director of regional associations including the Houston Area Parkinsonism Society (HAPS) and regional chapters of national support groups. Dr. Jankovic is a recipient of several prestigious awards and has been invited as a named lecturer and a visiting professor to many U.S. and foreign universities. Dr. Jankovic is listed in Best Doctors in America, America’s Top Doctors, and in Who’s Who in America, Who’s Who in World, Who’s Who in Health and Medical Services, and in Who’s Who in Science and Engineering.

Thanks lurker.  I am well aware of Dr. J’s CV (the TS community in New England is not THAT large) and I know a couple of his patients personally.  It’s clear that I should have prefaced my post with a big !!!SARCASM ALERT!!!… Of course physicians must be judicious and cautious in prescribing stimulants (or any other med, for that matter).  Stimulants *can* exacerbate tics in some people, sometimes severely.  No argument there. But if Janus’ position is that *no* physician who is knowledgeable about TS would ever prescribe stimulants to *any* patient with tics or TS and co-morbid ADHD, he/she is flat out wrong.

— A child, however, who had no important job and could only see things as his eyes showed them to him, went up to the carriage.       "The Emperor is naked," he said. —Hans Christian Anderson Project Gutenberg Fine Literature Digitally Republished http://promo.net/pg/index.html

— A child, however, who had no important job and could only see things as his eyes showed them to him, went up to the carriage.        "The Emperor is naked," he said.                                                                                                                         —Hans Christian Anderson Project Gutenberg Fine Literature Digitally Republished http://promo.net/pg/index.html

Response:

On Thu, 01 Aug 2002 09:34:26 -0400, Maryann <sableme…@rcn.com

wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Janus wrote: It’s pathos and looney tunes on this ng. People who yet to reveal they themselves have the foggiest notion of the most basic facts about TS, are manicly writing letters to a doctor whose been dx’ing and treating TS for 31 years,  and telling him he got it wrong about TS, lol People with the grandiose delusion they know more than the experts,  have a dx alright,  but its not TS!   Classic manic depression is a differential diagnosis, often confused and misdiagnosed as Ts, ADHD. One of the big things people with manic depression do, is write complaints, and/or  write eminent specialists how they got it all wrong.. If I ever crosspost anything about the looney tunes engaged in by posters to this ng,  it will be to the manic ng.. But…but…but… I know for a fact that Dr. Jankovic prescribes stimulant medication to *some* kids with co-morbid TS/ADHD…this proves not only that he "knows nothing about TS", but that he is also EVIL…pure EVIL… I say we burn him.

Your comments have been forwarded Not too sure what you have against Professor Jankovic but if you arer going to cyberstalk him you may as well di it properly Professor of Neurology Director, Parkinson’s Disease Center and Movement Disorders Clinic President, Movement Disorder Society Phone: 1-713-798-7438 (Patient Appointment) Phone: 1-713-798-5998 (Academic) Fax: 1-713-798-6808 email: jose…@bcm.tmc.edu Joseph Jankovic, M.D. ————————————————————————— —– Clinical Interests: Movement disorders including Parkinson’s disease and related neurodegenerative disorders, tremors, dystonia, Tourette’s syndrome, Huntington’s disease, and tardive dyskinesias. Research Interests: Epidemiology, pathophysiology, genetics and experimental therapeutics of movement disorders. Selected Publications: (out of over 300 original articles and reviews) Ondo, W., Jankovic, J. (1996) Essential tremor: Treatment options. CNS Drugs. 3:178-191. Demirkiran, M., Jankovic, J. (1996) Paroxysmal dyskinesias. In: Appel, S.H., ed., Current Neurology, vol 16, Mosby Year Book, Chicago, 16:213-251. Krauss, J.K., Jankovic, J. (1996) Severe motor tics causing cervical myelopathy in Tourette’s syndrome. Mov. Disord. 11:563-566. Litvan, I., Agid, Y., Calne, D., Campbell, G., Dubois, B., Duvoisin, R.C., Goetz, C.G., Golbe, L.I., Grafman, J., Growdon, J.H., Hallett, M., Jankovic, J., Quinn, N.P., Tolosa, E., Zee, D.S. (1996) Clinical research criteria for the diagnosis of progressive supranuclear palsy (Steele-Richardson-Olszewski syndrome): Report of the NINDS-SPSP International Workshop. Neurology. 47:1-9. Krauss, J.K., Jankovic, J. (1996) Surgical treatment of Parkinson’s disease. Am. Fam. Physician. 54:1621-1629. Stanley, R., Protas, E.J., Jankovic, J. (1996) Exercise intervention in Parkinson’s disease: A pilot study. Mov. Disor. 11:748-751. Litvan, I., Agid, Y., Sastrj, N., Jankovic, J., Wenning, G., Goetz, C.G., et al. (1996) What are the obstacles for an accurate clinical diagnosis of Pick’s disease? A clinicopathologic study. Neurology. 49:62-69. Krauss, J.K., Akeyson, E.W., Giam, P., Jankovic, J. (1996) Propofol-induced dyskinesias in Parkinson’s disease. Anesth. Analg. 83:420-422. Ondo, W., Jankovic, J. (1996) Restless legs syndrome: Clinical-etiologic correlates. Neurology. 47:1435-1441. Dichgans, J., M

Question:

Effexor Withdrawal Causing Crackling Sounds in the Brain Antidepressants  "Thank God for this website." I had a nervous breakdown six years ago and after being on other

anti-depressants without a problem, my psychiatrist felt that Effexor had less of an effect on the heart, and so switched me to Effexor. I have tried unsuccessfully to quit on many

occasions, even though I only take 37.5 mgs per day. The extreme lethargy I feel when I have tried to quit, the tingling in various parts of my body, the weird dreams and most

troublesome of all, the crackling, electric sounds in my head have caused me too much distress to ever be successful.

Hi, I think that you have to think about all these  side effect problems. Maybe they are not side-effect, maybe they are only telling you that you are stressed, and you need to fix your problems, otherwise the side-problems will be forever with you B

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Effexor Withdrawal Causing Crackling Sounds in the Brain Antidepressants  "Thank God for this website." I had a nervous breakdown six years ago and after being on other  anti-depressants without a problem, my psychiatrist felt that Effexor had less of an effect on the  heart, and so switched me to Effexor. I have tried unsuccessfully to quit on many  occasions, even though I only take 37.5 mgs per day. The extreme lethargy I feel when I have  tried to quit, the tingling in various parts of my body, the weird dreams and most  troublesome of all, the crackling, electric sounds in my head have caused me too much distress to  ever be successful. Hi, I think that you have to think about all these  side effect problems. Maybe they are not side-effect, maybe they are only telling you that you are stressed, and you need to fix your problems, otherwise the side-problems will be forever with you B

I thought cross-posting to and from different kind of newsgroups was not the reason why they started alt.support.schizofrenia. Btw, is it not forbidden in the FAQ ? Berty

Response:

Effexor Withdrawal Causing Crackling Sounds in the Brain Antidepressants  "Thank God for this website." I had a nervous breakdown six years ago and after being on other

anti-depressants without a problem, my psychiatrist felt that Effexor had less of an effect on the heart, and so switched me to Effexor. I have tried unsuccessfully to quit on many

occasions, even though I only take 37.5 mgs per day. The extreme lethargy I feel when I have tried to quit, the tingling in various parts of my body, the weird dreams and most

troublesome of all, the crackling, electric sounds in my head have caused me too much distress to ever be successful.

Hi, I think that you have to think about all these  side effect problems. Maybe they are not side-effect, maybe they are only telling you that you are stressed, and you need to fix your problems, otherwise the side-problems will be forever with you B

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Effexor Withdrawal Causing Crackling Sounds in the Brain Antidepressants  "Thank God for this website." I had a nervous breakdown six years ago and after being on other  anti-depressants without a problem, my psychiatrist felt that Effexor had less of an effect on the  heart, and so switched me to Effexor. I have tried unsuccessfully to quit on many  occasions, even though I only take 37.5 mgs per day. The extreme lethargy I feel when I have  tried to quit, the tingling in various parts of my body, the weird dreams and most  troublesome of all, the crackling, electric sounds in my head have caused me too much distress to  ever be successful. Hi, I think that you have to think about all these  side effect problems. Maybe they are not side-effect, maybe they are only telling you that you are stressed, and you need to fix your problems, otherwise the side-problems will be forever with you B

I thought cross-posting to and from different kind of newsgroups was not the reason why they started alt.support.schizofrenia. Btw, is it not forbidden in the FAQ ? Berty

Response:

Question:

For anyone who’s ever been on it or is familiar with the drug: What is the average dosage for this stuff? Thanks…

Response:

I have taken 75-150 mg before. I currently take regular effexor (not XR) 100 mg.  Effexor XR dosages range from 75 (low) to 450mg (very high).  Avg is from 150mg to 225mg.  You know you are taking too much if you begin to have more and more trouble getting up in the morning. hope this helps, SaNd For anyone who’s ever been on it or is familiar with the drug: What is the average dosage for this stuff? Thanks…

Posted Via Binaries.net = SPEED+RETENTION+COMPLETION = http://www.binaries.net

Response:

I have taken 75XR… my doctor inscreased my med at 150… Yark… I have had hallucinations. Aline – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – For anyone who’s ever been on it or is familiar with the drug: What is the average dosage for this stuff? Thanks…

Response:

I am on 150mg/day, and having difficulty getting up in the morning. But that was the same before Effexor. I think it is my depression that keeps me tied to bed. Why are you suggesting to lower the dose in this case? I mean, how does high dose of Effexor cause difficulty waking up? cem

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have taken 75-150 mg before. I currently take regular effexor (not XR) 100 mg.  Effexor XR dosages range from 75 (low) to 450mg (very high).  Avg is from 150mg to 225mg.  You know you are taking too much if you begin to have more and more trouble getting up in the morning. hope this helps, SaNd For anyone who’s ever been on it or is familiar with the drug: What is the average dosage for this stuff? Thanks…

__ Posted Via Binaries.net = SPEED+RETENTION+COMPLETION =

http://www.binaries.net

Response:

If you are having more difficulty getting up now than you were before you began taking effexor or when you ere on a lower dosage, then you know that getting up in the morning is becoming even more difficult than before.  That is when you might suspect that you are taking too much effexor.  If you are having the same difficulty getting up inthe morning as you were before you began taking it or when you were on lower doses, then you may not be taking enough and/or it may not be working for you.   Is that a little easier to understand? I know it can be hard to tell how difficult getting up inthe morning is.  I guage it by how long i sleep.  The longer I sleep, the more difficult it is to get up.  Taking too much effexor when it is working can paralyze a person and it can be maddening because it happens so slowly. =) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I am on 150mg/day, and having difficulty getting up in the morning. But that was the same before Effexor. I think it is my depression that keeps me tied to bed. Why are you suggesting to lower the dose in this case? I mean, how does high dose of Effexor cause difficulty waking up? cem I have taken 75-150 mg before. I currently take regular effexor (not XR) 100 mg.  Effexor XR dosages range from 75 (low) to 450mg (very high).  Avg is from 150mg to 225mg.  You know you are taking too much if you begin to have more and more trouble getting up in the morning. hope this helps, SaNd For anyone who’s ever been on it or is familiar with the drug: What is the average dosage for this stuff? Thanks… __ Posted Via Binaries.net = SPEED+RETENTION+COMPLETION = http://www.binaries.net

Posted Via Binaries.net = SPEED+RETENTION+COMPLETION = http://www.binaries.net

Response:

I am on 75 mg/day.  Many people are on 150 mg.  I have heard of people being on 300 and 375 mg/day.  That’s where some of the bizarre side effects seem to be seen.  (Try a Google search on "effexor side effects.") Contrary to some of the other posts in this thread, I don’t see Effexor having any impact on my ability to get up in the morning.  But I am on a pretty low dose.  I do find that it causes me to have extremely vivid, detailed, long, and sometimes illogical dreams.  Paxil had this effect on me as well. I have heard the opinion that Effexor’s effect on norepinephrine reuptake doesn’t kick in until 150 mg/day, e.g. below 150 it supposedly only works on serotonin.  But I’ve always done fine on 75.  Perhaps it is a function of concentration, which in turn is a function of both dose and body weight, as I am not a large person. Hope this helps.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – For anyone who’s ever been on it or is familiar with the drug: What is the average dosage for this stuff? Thanks…

Response:

Thanks very much for the help. Much appreciated. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – For anyone who’s ever been on it or is familiar with the drug: What is the average dosage for this stuff? Thanks…

Response:

Question:

Courageous,the point  I  am trying to make is that "ecstasy" is sometimes not really ecstasy at all.There are so many people making the stuff,and using so many different chemicals to make their version of it,that oftentimes the people using it have absolutely no idea what they are ingesting.And to mix any unknown chemical with Viagra(or any other drug for that matter)in an attempt to experience an ultimate sexual high,is in my opinion extremely risky.

Response:

seadog,STOP taking ecstasy.There are so many different people making the stuff that you never know exactly what might be in it.Any drug that keeps you up for hours on end partying cant be doing you a damn bit of good.And do you really enjoy that day after feeling?You know,the one where you pull the shades,turn off the phone,and hide out,like a vampire in a coffin trying to get some sleep?As for your initial question,I would definately NOT mix viagra with ecstasy.You would be toying with a mixture of drugs that could possibly do serious harm.

Response:

where you pull the shades,turn off the phone,and hide out,like a vampire in a coffin trying to get some sleep?As for your initial question,I would definately NOT mix viagra with ecstasy.You would be toying with a mixture of drugs that could possibly do serious harm.

I don’t have any reason to believe that the *mixture* is harmful, but the reason that researchers discarded MDMA as a potential antidepressant was because it was shown in research to cause negative long-term serotonin-receptor downregulation (and eradication) in rats. The thought was that the substance might with chronic use actually CAUSE (irreversible) clinical depression. I suspect that it’s no coincidence at all that MDMA abusers end up on SSRI medication for (what probably is) the rest of their life whenupon they finally decided that there life is in ruins. Keep in mind that I’m an anti-prohibitionist. If people want to fry out their brains, it should be there right. Just recall an old truism: "What goes up, must come down". C//

Response:

If you’re a big enough fool to resort to taking the mind bending crap you do to get through life, then you don’t really deserve the pleasure of an erection do you? May you suffer in silence.

Thanks for your narrow-minded input. I’m sure you bring confort to the geniuses that brought us The War on Drugs. Al

Response:

Is that a value judgement or what? OR eon^^^

Response:

Might be a value judgement but this is a support forum for people with a medical condition who are trying to alleviate a problem, not create one. If you want to experiment with non-prescription drugs, that is entirely your choice, and I for one wouldn’t stop you. But I really think you are missing the point of this forum.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is that a value judgement or what? OR eon^^^

Response:

If you’re a big enough fool to resort to taking the mind bending crap you do to get through life, then you don’t really deserve the pleasure of an erection do you?

DESERVE?????   My, my, my.  The words "glass house" come to mind.

Response:

Sorry if this has been posted before,   I’ve started so I’ll finish Has anyone out there had experience with Ecstacy and Viagra? I know when I take ecstacy it makes you more or less impotent anyway. I’m just wondering how the drugs get on together …. same for marijuana.  I dont plan on taking them together,  but I use the two drugs semi regularly. Thanks.

I felt a little bit sad that the replies to this post so far have, for the most part, been somewhat judgemental. After all, we may have a guy (probably quite young) who may have an underlying problem that is not clear from this posting. If this is the case, this post is not inappropriate here. I certainly don’t know the specific answers to this question but I would like to make a few comments that might promote open-minded discussion. I believe that, whatever your personal view of the use of no-prescription drug use, we have to accept it as "normal" in our modern society. I also think that, " a little pinch of what yer like does yer good", even though the substance is intrinsically bad for you. After all, I bet there are a good few guys on here who like a couple of beers, or a whiskey, or maybe a cigar. Whatever you do, I believe you should do it sensibly and in moderation. Ecstasy is certainly questionable but there is a a lot of evidence that can demonstrate that cannabis (separated from tobacco) is a less harmful than alcohol. Getting back to the ED / impotency point. Cut out all drug use for a while. All drugs that is, alcohol in any form, tobacco, "E", grass, tea, and coffee. Tobacco is the worst thing that you can do for your health (I guess that if you smoke cannabis this is mixed with tobacco) When you get yourself sorted out try a different substrate, maybe mint, or try one of those vaporiser things. Give it a few of weeks or so Mr seadog and see how it goes. Post in again and tell us how you get on. If you still have a problem, some of the experienced guys in here might be able to help. And, get an appointment with your doctor. Good luck, VMS

Response:

If you’re a big enough fool to resort to taking the mind bending crap you do to get through life, then you don’t really deserve the pleasure of an erection do you? May you suffer in silence. Ben Sorry if this has been posted before,   I’ve started so I’ll finish Has anyone out there had experience with Ecstacy and Viagra? I know when I take ecstacy it makes you more or less impotent anyway. I’m just wondering how the drugs get on together …. same for marijuana.  I dont plan on taking them together,  but I use the two drugs semi regularly. Thanks.

For every winner there are dozens of loosers Odds are you’re one of them.

Response:

Sorry if this has been posted before,   I’ve started so I’ll finish Has anyone out there had experience with Ecstacy and Viagra? I know when I take ecstacy it makes you more or less impotent anyway. I’m just wondering how the drugs get on together …. same for marijuana.  I dont plan on taking them together,  but I use the two drugs semi regularly. Thanks.

Response:

It is my understanding that the THC in marijuana mimics estrogen so the regular heavy smokers of the drug sometimes develop gyno. If this is the case I would think that except for getting you over some inhibitions, marijuana would contribute to rather than help ED. With ecstacy, it works by causing a massive dumping of seratonin in the brain. If the sort of mild manic feeling I used to have when I was taking prozac is any indication of how a slight increase in seratonin due to a change in it’s reuptake causes, I shutter to think what it would feel like if you took something that caused a massive dumping of it. I would think that the increased seratonin levels would make you escatic while they lasted though totally unable to have an orgasm. I would think that the seratonin depleted state your brain would be in when you came down would be extremely unpleasant. I don’t know what the long term effects of either drug might be. I’ve experienced having my brain chemistry messed up and my hormones messed up. How ever ‘great’ the high from these drugs is, I don’t think it could possibly be worth messing up one’s chemistry. I’m just real happy that I’ve finally gotten my chemistry unmessed up. So, call me an old fuddy duddy if you want but I’d stay away from both those drugs. mike71646 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sorry if this has been posted before,   I’ve started so I’ll finish Has anyone out there had experience with Ecstacy and Viagra? I know when I take ecstacy it makes you more or less impotent anyway. I’m just wondering how the drugs get on together …. same for marijuana.  I dont plan on taking them together,  but I use the two drugs semi regularly. Thanks.

Response:

Question:

Frank can’t help it folks, poor thing.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I can answer these for you (A) What is a chiropractic subluxation? The potential injury caused by unnecessary spinal manipulation. (B) Can you identify one on a radiograph?  If not, what methods do you use to detect them?  How reliable are these methods? Only after a significant trauma.  Spiral CT scan is a very sensitive for delineating the extent of injury. (C) Can a subluxation cause visceral disease (a la Meric chart)? No (D) Can colic be treated chiropractically? No (E) Can a correcting a subluxation help in childhood ear infections? Not really

Response:

Kirk, sham manipulation is fatally flawed.

How can you be certain the sham manipulation is not having an effect by accident. If sham manipulation can be so successful then

why go to a chiropractor and pay good money? Why go to college to study this if anybody can

do it? The issue is knowing were and when to adjust. If the chiropractor understands what he is

doing then he must be able to make a sham treatment. If he doesn’t understand what he is doing then

why go to a chiropractor? Chris Noble

A key is whether or not the subject knows if it is a sham adjustment if one wishes to incorporate a placebo study. Before you buy.

Response:

 A sham could have some different effect that would blow the whole thing. Not very hard to understand.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Kirk, sham manipulation is fatally flawed.   How can you be certain the sham manipulation is not having an effect by accident. If sham manipulation can be so successful then why go to a chiropractor and pay good money? Why go to college to study this if anybody can do it? If the chiropractor understands what he is doing then he must be able to make a sham treatment. If he doesn’t understand what he is doing then why go to a chiropractor? Chris Noble

Response:

Kirk, sham manipulation is fatally flawed.   How can you be certain the sham manipulation is not having an effect by accident.

If sham manipulation can be so successful then why go to a chiropractor and pay good money? Why go to college to study this if anybody can do it? If the chiropractor understands what he is doing then he must be able to make a sham treatment. If he doesn’t understand what he is doing then why go to a chiropractor? Chris Noble

Response:

    Kirk, sham manipulation is fatally flawed.   How can you be certain the    sham manipulation is not having an effect by accident. If sham manipulation can be so successful then why go to a chiropractor and pay good money? Why go to college to study this if anybody can do it?

Chiro’s have developed techniques that work.   Their patients attest to this. Your sham treatment is neither defined or tested If the chiropractor understands what he is doing then he must be able to make a sham treatment.

 But no-one understands everything about any treatment.   He understands what he is doing works and he understands the basic philosophy behind it.   But he cannot guarantee that his approach is the only one that will work and that your sham treatment cannot possibly work. You want to use a sham treatment?   Prove it is ineffective first. If he doesn’t understand what he is doing then why go to a chiropractor?

Because they have developed successful treatments.   People go through it and say ‘It worked for me’ Until valid studies are done that is all we have to go on. You want a study?   Randomly select patients to consult MD’s or Chiro’s. Blindly evaluate the results.   Which group has a better response? If it’s the MD’s, then I’ll be quite happy to go to an MD first, and if that doesn’t work, go to the Chiro. If it’s the Chiro, then vice versa If it’s the same, then I’ll go to the one with the prettiest receptionist first<g Best wishes — John Bain UK TV Sound Director, magnotherapy user & distributor http://members.aol.com/JBainSI/Magnotherapy.html Surround Sound for Television

Response:

John I have to agree with your post and only wished that I was eloquent enough to have written it. — Dr. Roland R. Hicks Doctor of Chiropractic All good things come from above-down-inside-out Natural Alternative to Celebrex/Vioxx: http://drhicks.joint-pain.com/ Internet Marketing to Win: http://www.aboutimw.com/drhicks.html Nutrition Products and Information: http://freelife.com/Sites/drhicks/redir.cfm?page=/info/welcome/welcom… fm toll free (877) 791-8686

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     Kirk, sham manipulation is fatally flawed.   How can you be certain the    sham manipulation is not having an effect by accident. Not really.  Because the intent of the sham arm of the intervention is to essentially keep the parents blinded, and mimic the conditions of the experimental intervention MINUS the part being investigated.  One could in ensure that a real manipulation is not performed, as long as the parents can’t tell. Not at all.   Just because the patients cannot tell the real treatment from the sham does not mean that the sham is ineffective. It’s like running a test on asprin and using paracetamol as a control. The patients might not be able to tell whether they had the treatment or the control, but the control would never be a placebo.     Comparitive studies are the only way to go until you can develop benchmarks    for the treatment. This, too, is not the case.  With a mere comparison study the conclusions that can be drawn are more prone to being erroneous. To determine if an adjustment (rather than just time spent with the patients, expectation bias, etc) is having an effect, a properly designed sham comparison is the only way to go.  Otherwise we are left with essentially useless studies like the one we are discussing now. Your studies are also useless.   Your controls are invalid.   You have no idea what effect the sham treatment might be having. Randomised comparison studies will show which treatment is more effective, as practised, on a random subject.   I don’t care about the mechanism at this stage, I just want to know which treatment is more effective.   This study will tell me.   It needs to be repeated with a range of practitioners to eliminate charismatic effects, but the results are meaningful.   It gives the odds of a successful outcome for any patient attending either of the two treatments. Controlled studies give us much more useful information than comparisons studies. Not when you do not know whether the sham has any effect.   And you don’t. Your anti-sham philosophy is simply yet another attempt to thwart scientific investigation of alternative modalities (like your arguments against sham acupuncture).  Should we now throw out all negative placebo controlled trials because we can never know if the inert placebo is having some magical, homeopathic, or unknown effect? This is essentially what you are saying if you extend your argument. Not in the slightest.   Unless you can say you totally understand how the therapy works, you cannot say whether the sham treatment has any effect. It must contain enough elements of the treatment to fool the subjects. Inert placebos can be varied to see if there is any difference.   Completely different issue. If you wish to use a sham treatment as a placebo, you must first prove it is ineffective.   How are you going to do that?   Try it against another sham treatment and choose the least effective? No, sham treatments have their place, but cannot be used to prove or disprove a therapy.   All it can prove is that the real treatment is not significantly better than the sham.   Now prove that the sham treatment is ineffective and I’ll listen. Best wishes — John Bain UK TV Sound Director, magnotherapy user & distributor http://members.aol.com/JBainSI/Magnotherapy.html Surround Sound for Television

Response:

    Kirk, sham manipulation is fatally flawed.   How can you be certain the    sham manipulation is not having an effect by accident. Not really.  Because the intent of the sham arm of the intervention is to essentially keep the parents blinded, and mimic the conditions of the experimental intervention MINUS the part being investigated.  One could in ensure that a real manipulation is not performed, as long as the parents can’t tell.  

Not at all.   Just because the patients cannot tell the real treatment from the sham does not mean that the sham is ineffective. It’s like running a test on asprin and using paracetamol as a control.   The patients might not be able to tell whether they had the treatment or the control, but the control would never be a placebo.     Comparitive studies are the only way to go until you can develop benchmarks    for the treatment. This, too, is not the case.  With a mere comparison study the conclusions that can be drawn are more prone to being erroneous. To determine if an adjustment (rather than just time spent with the patients, expectation bias, etc) is having an effect, a properly designed sham comparison is the only way to go.  Otherwise we are left with essentially useless studies like the one we are discussing now.

Your studies are also useless.   Your controls are invalid.   You have no idea what effect the sham treatment might be having. Randomised comparison studies will show which treatment is more effective, as practised, on a random subject.   I don’t care about the mechanism at this stage, I just want to know which treatment is more effective.   This study will tell me.   It needs to be repeated with a range of practitioners to eliminate charismatic effects, but the results are meaningful.   It gives the odds of a successful outcome for any patient attending either of the two treatments. Controlled studies give us much more useful information than comparisons studies.

Not when you do not know whether the sham has any effect.   And you don’t. Your anti-sham philosophy is simply yet another attempt to thwart scientific investigation of alternative modalities (like your arguments against sham acupuncture).  Should we now throw out all negative placebo controlled trials because we can never know if the inert placebo is having some magical, homeopathic, or unknown effect? This is essentially what you are saying if you extend your argument.

Not in the slightest.   Unless you can say you totally understand how the therapy works, you cannot say whether the sham treatment has any effect.   It must contain enough elements of the treatment to fool the subjects.   Inert placebos can be varied to see if there is any difference.   Completely different issue. If you wish to use a sham treatment as a placebo, you must first prove it is ineffective.   How are you going to do that?   Try it against another sham treatment and choose the least effective? No, sham treatments have their place, but cannot be used to prove or disprove a therapy.   All it can prove is that the real treatment is not significantly better than the sham.   Now prove that the sham treatment is ineffective and I’ll listen. Best wishes — John Bain UK TV Sound Director, magnotherapy user & distributor http://members.aol.com/JBainSI/Magnotherapy.html Surround Sound for Television

Response:

Suppose it is simply the child’s karma to be (eventually) free of Colic.  How can we be sure the adjustment, sham adjustment, or other method is not stealing the credit owed to Karma.

Why Andrew, have you done more reading about Karma and are prepared to discuss it now? Here’s the question you kept avoiding all those months ago. Given 100 subjects for a trial,  can we assume that each carries the same Karmic burden Yes or No. If yes, please give your reasons.  When you answer this we can go onto the next question. Best wishes — John Bain UK TV Sound Director, magnotherapy user & distributor http://members.aol.com/JBainSI/Magnotherapy.html Surround Sound for Television

Response:

I understand the need to control variables and the attempted use of sham adjustments to control those variables AMAP. The question of variables does not just enter the control side but also the treatment side of a study.  For example, are all the patients treated with manipulation going to get the same adjustment or the adjustment that is determined to be necessary to correct the dysfunction(subluxation/fixation/restriction).  The reason I bring up this point is because if there is a rotational fixation of the joint then a lateral flexion impulse may or may not correct the fixation and therefore may skew the results to the side of ineffectiveness of the procedure. When it comes to testing a physical medicine the variables are endless.  Not to say that testing should not be done but there must be a global understanding that there are multiple variables that can not be controlled. — Dr. Roland R. Hicks Doctor of Chiropractic All good things come from above-down-inside-out Natural Alternative to Celebrex/Vioxx: http://drhicks.joint-pain.com/ Internet Marketing to Win: http://www.aboutimw.com/drhicks.html Nutrition Products and Information: http://freelife.com/Sites/drhicks/redir.cfm?page=/info/welcome/welcom… fm toll free (877) 791-8686

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Might not be a bad idea to look at all such trials, and shine today’s knowledge on them. I think one might find many old truths to no longer be so. And some to be so. There is much info out there which strongly suggests that we are effected on many subtle levels. By not taking that into account, we can only have faulty or inaccurate information. Surly someone would try to eliminate as many variables as possible. To not do so would, at best , be not worthy of trust. The problem was that the study design compared chiropractic manipulation to administration of a drug.  This is not a true controlled trial, but rather a comparison trial (although JMPT still referred to it as placebo controlled and single blinded). The investigators should have had a manipulation group and a sham group. Kirk, sham manipulation is fatally flawed.   How can you be certain the sham manipulation is not having an effect by accident. Not really.  Because the intent of the sham arm of the intervention is to essentially keep the parents blinded, and mimic the conditions of the experimental intervention MINUS the part being investigated.  One could in ensure that a real manipulation is not performed, as long as the parents can’t tell. Comparitive studies are the only way to go until you can develop benchmarks for the treatment. This, too, is not the case.  With a mere comparison study the conclusions that can be drawn are more prone to being erroneous. To determine if an adjustment (rather than just time spent with the patients, expectation bias, etc) is having an effect, a properly designed sham comparison is the only way to go.  Otherwise we are left with essentially useless studies like the one we are discussing now. Controlled studies give us much more useful information than comparisons studies.  Your anti-sham philosophy is simply yet another attempt to thwart scientific investigation of alternative modalities (like your arguments against sham acupuncture).  Should we now throw out all negative placebo controlled trials because we can never know if the inert placebo is having some magical, homeopathic, or unknown effect? This is essentially what you are saying if you extend your argument. — Kirk Kolas Ontario Veterinary College Class of 2002

Response:

I am not sold on the art of "sham" adjustments.  If there is any joint movement it will have some affect on the joint complex. — Dr. Roland R. Hicks Doctor of Chiropractic All good things come from above-down-inside-out Natural Alternative to Celebrex/Vioxx: http://drhicks.joint-pain.com/ Internet Marketing to Win: http://www.aboutimw.com/drhicks.html Nutrition Products and Information: http://freelife.com/Sites/drhicks/redir.cfm?page=/info/welcome/welcom… fm toll free (877) 791-8686

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "The one study did show that there was a reported improvement but since it was the mothers who reported the improvement the research was not definitive. Who should you ask if a baby’s colic is better?  I think the study is flawed since the measurement is strictly subjective and I hope that they can come up with a more structured study.  Colic is not easily quantified or classified." —- The problem with the design of this study was not really a problem with the measurement of "hours of crying".  This is a reasonable outcome measure, considering "colic" is operationally defined as increased hours of crying. The problem was that the study design compared chiropractic manipulation to administration of a drug.  This is not a true controlled trial, but rather a comparison trial (although JMPT still referred to it as placebo controlled and single blinded). The investigators should have had a manipulation group and a sham group. This way, the parents could be kept in the dark with respect to whether or not their child truly received an adjustment.  By comparing the outcomes of these two groups, the investigators could control for all those other factors that may be at play (e.g. expectation bias, handling of the child, increased time with the parents, etc…) I found it curious that JMPT also referred to the study as single blinded.  In my view it was not even single blinded because the "blinding" referred to the person evaluating the colic diary.  The outcome measure was simply total hours crying, so the diary evaluator, I presume, is simply adding up some numbers.  Blinding this individual is advantageous, but nothing to write home about.  Blinding the evaluators (the parents) is paramount. Nevertheless I have seen this rather poorly designed study touted in some forums.  I’d like to see it done properly with sham manipulation. I have never seen infant adjustments in person, but the couple of instances I have seen it on video, the "adjustments" were so subtle that I fear the investigators would have a hard time devising a convincing "sham" manipulation without actually replicating the adjustment arm of the study. And to end on a completely biased note: most pediatric adjustments look like sham adjustments to me in the first place. — Kirk Kolas Ontario Veterinary College Class of 2002

Response:

The problem was that the study design compared chiropractic manipulation to administration of a drug.  This is not a true controlled trial, but rather a comparison trial (although JMPT still referred to it as placebo controlled and single blinded). The investigators should have had a manipulation group and a sham group. Kirk, sham manipulation is fatally flawed.   How can you be certain the sham manipulation is not having an effect by accident.

Not really.  Because the intent of the sham arm of the intervention is to essentially keep the parents blinded, and mimic the conditions of the experimental intervention MINUS the part being investigated.  One could in ensure that a real manipulation is not performed, as long as the parents can’t tell.   Comparitive studies are the only way to go until you can develop benchmarks for the treatment.

This, too, is not the case.  With a mere comparison study the conclusions that can be drawn are more prone to being erroneous. To determine if an adjustment (rather than just time spent with the patients, expectation bias, etc) is having an effect, a properly designed sham comparison is the only way to go.  Otherwise we are left with essentially useless studies like the one we are discussing now. Controlled studies give us much more useful information than comparisons studies.  Your anti-sham philosophy is simply yet another attempt to thwart scientific investigation of alternative modalities (like your arguments against sham acupuncture).  Should we now throw out all negative placebo controlled trials because we can never know if the inert placebo is having some magical, homeopathic, or unknown effect? This is essentially what you are saying if you extend your argument. — Kirk Kolas Ontario Veterinary College Class of 2002

Response:

 Might not be a bad idea to look at all such trials, and shine today’s knowledge on them. I think one might find many old truths to no longer be so. And some to be so. There is much info out there which strongly suggests that we are effected on many subtle levels. By not taking that into account, we can only have faulty or inaccurate information. Surly someone would try to eliminate as many variables as possible. To not do so would, at best , be not worthy of trust.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The problem was that the study design compared chiropractic manipulation to administration of a drug.  This is not a true controlled trial, but rather a comparison trial (although JMPT still referred to it as placebo controlled and single blinded). The investigators should have had a manipulation group and a sham group. Kirk, sham manipulation is fatally flawed.   How can you be certain the sham manipulation is not having an effect by accident. Not really.  Because the intent of the sham arm of the intervention is to essentially keep the parents blinded, and mimic the conditions of the experimental intervention MINUS the part being investigated.  One could in ensure that a real manipulation is not performed, as long as the parents can’t tell. Comparitive studies are the only way to go until you can develop benchmarks for the treatment. This, too, is not the case.  With a mere comparison study the conclusions that can be drawn are more prone to being erroneous. To determine if an adjustment (rather than just time spent with the patients, expectation bias, etc) is having an effect, a properly designed sham comparison is the only way to go.  Otherwise we are left with essentially useless studies like the one we are discussing now. Controlled studies give us much more useful information than comparisons studies.  Your anti-sham philosophy is simply yet another attempt to thwart scientific investigation of alternative modalities (like your arguments against sham acupuncture).  Should we now throw out all negative placebo controlled trials because we can never know if the inert placebo is having some magical, homeopathic, or unknown effect? This is essentially what you are saying if you extend your argument. — Kirk Kolas Ontario Veterinary College Class of 2002

Response:

The problem was that the study design compared chiropractic manipulation to administration of a drug.  This is not a true controlled trial, but rather a comparison trial (although JMPT still referred to it as placebo controlled and single blinded).   The investigators should have had a manipulation group and a sham group.

Kirk, sham manipulation is fatally flawed.   How can you be certain the sham manipulation is not having an effect by accident. It’s like using a random drug off the shelves as a placebo, you have no idea what its effects will be on the participants in this study. Comparitive studies are the only way to go until you can develop benchmarks for the treatment. Best wishes — John Bain UK TV Sound Director, magnotherapy user & distributor http://members.aol.com/JBainSI/Magnotherapy.html Surround Sound for Television

Response:

John, Suppose it is simply the child’s karma to be (eventually) free of Colic.  How can we be sure the adjustment, sham adjustment, or other method is not stealing the credit owed to Karma. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The problem was that the study design compared chiropractic manipulation to administration of a drug.  This is not a true controlled trial, but rather a comparison trial (although JMPT still referred to it as placebo controlled and single blinded). The investigators should have had a manipulation group and a sham group. Kirk, sham manipulation is fatally flawed.   How can you be certain the sham manipulation is not having an effect by accident. It’s like using a random drug off the shelves as a placebo, you have no idea what its effects will be on the participants in this study. Comparitive studies are the only way to go until you can develop benchmarks for the treatment. Best wishes — John Bain UK TV Sound Director, magnotherapy user & distributor http://members.aol.com/JBainSI/Magnotherapy.html Surround Sound for Television

Before you buy.

Response:

"The one study did show that there was a reported improvement but since it was the mothers who reported the improvement the research was not definitive. Who should you ask if a baby’s colic is better?  I think the study is flawed since the measurement is strictly subjective and I hope that they can come up with a more structured study.  Colic is not easily quantified or classified."   —- The problem with the design of this study was not really a problem with the measurement of "hours of crying".  This is a reasonable outcome measure, considering "colic" is operationally defined as increased hours of crying. The problem was that the study design compared chiropractic manipulation to administration of a drug.  This is not a true controlled trial, but rather a comparison trial (although JMPT still referred to it as placebo controlled and single blinded).   The investigators should have had a manipulation group and a sham group. This way, the parents could be kept in the dark with respect to whether or not their child truly received an adjustment.  By comparing the outcomes of these two groups, the investigators could control for all those other factors that may be at play (e.g. expectation bias, handling of the child, increased time with the parents, etc…) I found it curious that JMPT also referred to the study as single blinded.  In my view it was not even single blinded because the "blinding" referred to the person evaluating the colic diary.  The outcome measure was simply total hours crying, so the diary evaluator, I presume, is simply adding up some numbers.  Blinding this individual is advantageous, but nothing to write home about.  Blinding the evaluators (the parents) is paramount. Nevertheless I have seen this rather poorly designed study touted in some forums.  I’d like to see it done properly with sham manipulation. I have never seen infant adjustments in person, but the couple of instances I have seen it on video, the "adjustments" were so subtle that I fear the investigators would have a hard time devising a convincing "sham" manipulation without actually replicating the adjustment arm of the study. And to end on a completely biased note: most pediatric adjustments look like sham adjustments to me in the first place.   — Kirk Kolas Ontario Veterinary College Class of 2002

Response:

"Chiropractors are nervous system specialists with a focus on orthopedics. In other words, chiropractors are concerned with mechanical stressors on the nervous system. The nervous system controls all of the blood vessels in the body (via the sympathetic division of the autonomic nervous system). Every tissue in the body needs a healthy blood supply (for nourishment and waste removal). This blood supply is predicated upon having blood vessels functioning properly. Sympathetic innervation causes vasoconstriction (narrows arteries and arterioles), and thus diminishes the blood supply to an area. Profound reduction in blood supply results in hypoxia (decreased oxygen supply). This results in an ischemic condition, resulting in cellular death, and possible necrosis of the tissue. And thus, the functional integrity of the tissue is compromised." "A man may be a fool and not know it – but not if he is married." H.L. Mencken http://www.lifehousemusic.com/lh_music.html catchytune. says me.

Response:

– Dr. Roland R. Hicks Doctor of Chiropractic All good things come from above-down-inside-out Natural Alternative to Celebrex/Vioxx: http://drhicks.joint-pain.com/ Internet Marketing to Win: http://www.aboutimw.com/drhicks.html Nutrition Products and Information: http://freelife.com/Sites/drhicks/redir.cfm?page=/info/welcome/welcom… fm toll free (877) 791-8686

Here are some starter questions: (A) What is a chiropractic subluxation?

Atlas gave a good explanation, however I like to use common language to describet a subluxtion.  It is first and foremost the main object of a theory which attempts to explain what a chiropractor treats.  It is not proven for if it was it would not be a theory.  A subluxation in chiropractic terms is an abnormal positon or movement of the spinal bones/joints which cause a change in the function of the nervous system and to the extent that the nervous system is affected so the subjects health is affected.  Simply put a subluxation is anything which can cause negative effects on the nervous system and related to the structure of the body.  As Atlas stated that there are many causes of subluxations from injury, stress, metabolic, ect. (B) Can you identify one on a radiograph?  If not, what methods do you use to detect them?  How reliable are these methods?

There are instances in which the structural facet of a subluxation may be viewed on xray.  Since a subluxation is biomechanical, structural and neurological in origin one can not see the neurological or biomechanical aspects of a subluxation on a xray. Just as one cannot see the funtion of the sciatic nerve on a pelvic xray.  I propose a scenario to better understand the above explanation.  In my practice, I have the opportunity to see patients with disc degeneration on a daily basis.  These people come in with discs that have degenerated and thinned.  When the disc thins the bones(vertebrae) come closer together.  This caused the facet joints in the back of the spine to also come closer together(imburcate).  When these joints come closer together their biomechanics change and they are prone to Jamming upon extension movements or movements which cause an increase in the normal lumbar curve(lordosis).  Can you see these changes in the normal static Xrays?  yes Can you see the biomechanical changes on the xray? no biomechanical findings cannot be seen on a static test. Can you correlate your findings to the history and examination and predict the outcome of care? yes (C) Can a subluxation cause visceral disease (a la Meric chart)?

What is the Meric chart? A person can have a viscerosomatic reflex like having an upset stomach cause overall body weakness and malaise. A person can have a somatovisceral reflex like having hit one’s thumb with a hammer can cause stomach upset. A person can have a psychosomatic reflex in which they think they are sick and therefore they feel general muscle weakness and malaise. A person can have a somatopsychologica reflex in which the are hurt physically and it sets up the flight/fight reaction. This is the long way of answering the question asked.  Yes, a subluxation can be a cause of a visceral disease/condition/symptom.  The reverse is also part of the "subluxation theory" a visceral condition can reflex to the spine and cause pain and subluxation symptoms of the spine.  Ie. gall bladder causing pain in the right intrascapular region.  Cramping and lumbar muscle spasms and pain associated with painful menses in women are good examples of viscerosomatic reflexes.  The nerves travel both ways. (D) Can colic be treated chiropractically?

There is some clinical evidence that spinal manipulation can reduce the severity of colic however I believe the jury is still out on that one and more studies should be performed.  The one study did show that there was a reported improvement but since it was the mothers who reported the improvement the research was not definitive. Who should you ask if a baby’s colic is better?  I think the study is flawed since the measurement is strictly subjective and I hope that they can come up with a more structured study.  Colic is not easily quantified or classified.  Plus those little rug rats can’t comunicate other than crying or not crying.  My boy was diagnosed with a viral syndrome(possibly meningitis) when he was two months old.  We were up all night and went to the ER at 4AM due to his condition.  The only thing that would calm him was gentle motion of his hips and sacrum. Why? GOT ME.  The lumbar puncture was inconclusive.  I was explained by our pediatrician that just because you dip your hand into a barrel of pickles and don’t grab a pickle doesn’t mean that there are not pickles in there. We had to assume that the child had meningitis and treat it as such. (E) Can a correcting a subluxation help in childhood ear infections?

In my clinical experience, I would have to say emphatically YES.  Does it cure infections? NO I have treated approximately 20-30 children with chronic ear infections over the past 10 years and of those treated, in my observation 80-90% showed improvement in their condition.  Was it just the adjustments?  I doubt it.  I make sure that my patients keep on the medicinal regimine recommended by their medical doctor and simply try to improve the function of the cervical spine. I also try to make dietary changes for the child.  Do I understand the exact mechanism? NO  What my treatments are designed to do is increase drainage of the sinuses and aid in the drainage of the eustacian tube.  If there is restriction of motion in the upper neck causing reduce lymphatic drainage then this may be a factor in the condition.  My son has had chronic ear infections since he was one year old.  He has allergies and that plays a big role in his chronic infections.  I do gentle neck adjustments and skull craniopathy to aid in his congestion to clear his sinuses and have him on antibiotics only when an infection is present. The explanations provided are in no way complete and are for the purposes of presenting my experience.  If you have questions about the areas discussed or are unclear of what I was attempting to explain please ask me to clarify those areas. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have heard different chiropractors answer these questions differently.  We all know how a "Straight" chiropractor would answer them.  What do you think? — Kirk Kolas Ontario Veterinary College Class of 2002

Response:

If you have a question about chiropractic ask away.  I am not the ultimate expert but I may be able to help you none the less. If you had been to a chiropractor and had a question about the visit, rumors, theory, testing or even the question that you think others will think you are stupid to ask.  I’m on this newsgroup for enjoyment and if I can help another while I’m having fun then I’ve killed two birds with one stone. — Dr. Roland R. Hicks Doctor of Chiropractic All good things come from above-down-inside-out Natural Alternative to Celebrex/Vioxx: http://drhicks.joint-pain.com/ Internet Marketing to Win: http://www.aboutimw.com/drhicks.html Nutrition Products and Information http://freelife.com/Sites/drhicks/redir.cfm?page=/info/welcome/welcom… fm toll free (877) 791-8686

Response:

If you have a question about chiropractic ask away.  I am not the ultimate expert but I may be able to help you none the less.

Here are some starter questions: (A) What is a chiropractic subluxation? (B) Can you identify one on a radiograph?  If not, what methods do you use to detect them?  How reliable are these methods? (C) Can a subluxation cause visceral disease (a la Meric chart)? (D) Can colic be treated chiropractically? (E) Can a correcting a subluxation help in childhood ear infections? I have heard different chiropractors answer these questions differently.  We all know how a "Straight" chiropractor would answer them.  What do you think? — Kirk Kolas Ontario Veterinary College Class of 2002

Response:

I can answer these for you (A) What is a chiropractic subluxation?

The potential injury caused by unnecessary spinal manipulation. (B) Can you identify one on a radiograph?  If not, what methods do you use to detect them?  How reliable are these methods?

Only after a significant trauma.  Spiral CT scan is a very sensitive for delineating the extent of injury. (C) Can a subluxation cause visceral disease (a la Meric chart)?

No (D) Can colic be treated chiropractically?

No (E) Can a correcting a subluxation help in childhood ear infections?

Not really

Response:

(A) What is a chiropractic subluxation?

If you asked a medical doctor and a chiropractor to define a subluxation, you would get two different answers. The medical profession defines a subluxation as: "A partial or incomplete dislocation."  (From Taber’s Cyclopedic Medical Dictionary).      The Chiropractic profession has a different definition (and thus – meaning) for a subluxation. Specifically, a subluxation is an articular lesion which has the following components: 1. Abnormal movement or position of a bone. (Kinesiopathology). In the spine, this could be at the intersegmental level (meaning one vertebra and the vertebra above and below it). Or it could be at the global level (meaning the posture). 2. Abnormal tissue. (Histopathology):  This includes nerves, muscle, ligaments, tendons, adipose tissue, fascia, lymphatics, blood vessels, etc.      Kinesiopathology is composed of rotations and translations. Histopathology is caused by deformations of the tissues [Davis' Law of soft tissues, Wolff's Law of hard tissues]. What causes a subluxation? Subluxations are caused by one of three things:      1. Trauma (Physical stress)      2. Thoughts (Emotional stress)      3. Toxins (Chemical stress) Is a Subluxation the cause of all disease?      There is no one cause for all disease.  If there was, we would have probably found it by now. There are numerous causes for disease. One thing which needs to be stressed at this point is that the human body was designed to be healthy. The body has an innate ability to repair itself from injury, and to fight off pathogens. We were not designed to have to rely on pills, potions, and powders to resolve the majority of our problems.      Chiropractors are nervous system specialists with a focus on orthopedics. In other words, chiropractors are concerned with mechanical stressors on the nervous system. The nervous system controls all of the blood vessels in the body (via the sympathetic division of the autonomic nervous system). Every tissue in the body needs a healthy blood supply (for nourishment and waste removal). This blood supply is predicated upon having blood vessels functioning properly. Sympathetic innervation causes vasoconstriction (narrows arteries and arterioles), and thus diminishes the blood supply to an area. Profound reduction in blood supply results in hypoxia (decreased oxygen supply). This results in an ischemic condition, resulting in cellular death, and possible necrosis of the tissue. And thus, the functional integrity of the tissue is compromised.      Chiropractors do not treat disease. They find and remove subluxations. However, if the subluxation is the cause of the disease, then by removing the subluxation, you are effectively resolving the problem. (B) Can you identify one on a radiograph?  If not, what methods do you use to detect them?  How reliable are these methods?

        The Chiropractic definition of a subluxation involves mechanical, biochemical, and neurophysiological components. Of these, the mechanical component is visible on an x-ray. The neurological, and physiological components are not visible on an x-ray. Chiropractors study x-ray films with line drawing analysis. And with these, they can take precise measurements to determine if the bone(s) are subluxated.      Your chiropractor will only order an x-ray if he/she feels it is necessary. Precautions are used to ensure that you are exposed to the absolutely minimum possible radioation dose. These include lead shielding, high speed films, collimation, and screens. (C) Can a subluxation cause visceral disease (a la Meric chart)?

        Chiropractic has but one purpose. And that is to find and remove subluxations. If the subluxation is the cause of the dis-ease in the body, then it logically follows that by removing the subluxation (the cause), then you’re going to remove the dis-ease (the effect).      However, the subluxation is not the root of every health care problem. There are many reasons why people get sick. Interestingly enough, Chiropractic could help boost the immune system of the patient, so that their own innate immunity is stronger, and the body is better able to rid itself of the disease process. See: http://www.geocities.com/cbpdoc/neuroimmune.html (D) Can colic be treated chiropractically?

        Only if the colic is caused by vertebral subluxation. (E) Can a correcting a subluxation help in childhood ear infections?

        Only if the ear infections are caused by vertebral subluxation. I have heard different chiropractors answer these questions differently.  We all know how a "Straight" chiropractor would answer them.  What do you think?

        Now you know.

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Question:

Thanks to everyone for the replies….. I’ve had lots of dizziness as part of my anxiety, but it’s just since the first Zoloft that I noticed this tendency to get dizzy when I watch something moving fast. It’s very concerning to me in that I always thought of dizziness to be ear-related, but this appears to be caused by some connection with my eyes. My other dizziness that I had before this is also strange, it seems that as long as I keep moving, I’m OK, but the minute I stop moving, I get dizzy. It’s almost as if all of the energy from my nervous system being used to move me around as I walk or run suddenly smashes into my balance system the minute I stop moving (I know thats ridiculous but I’m just using it as an analogy) The other amazing thing is that both my doctor and my therapist told me that zoloft would most likely make it hard to sleep, but the opposite has occured, since taking my first zoloft a few days ago I am increidbly tired (and dizzy). So part of me wants to run and have more medical tests, but then again I’ve been through that whole routine many times before. Thanks again to everyone for the replies. It really helps knowing there are other people out there that are going through this.

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. That is very good. Most doctors start their patients on 25 or 50 mgs and it is really better to *start low and go slow* in order to avoid or minimize initial Zoloft side effects.

Hi, I was given 50mgs for two weeks then on to 100. I believe I have a bite problem from clenching my teeth during this time. I see an endodontist next week to see if it’s a major crack way down in at least two teeth or the nerves that have been damaged as a result of this horrible clenching. I also had the *worst* nightmares. Can’t say for sure if it was the med (and yes I was really dizzy too) but it gradually went away after stopping it. I am, however, left with problem with my teeth, my dentist says to hope for a root canal as that would be the most simple repair of the possible ones. Great littlebear

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Hi Steve, I had dry eyes real bad..kind of like dry mouth and yawns. My eye sight changed while taking zoloft and ive talked to another person that that happened with too…you no your body best and if you think it is a side effect then bring it up with your doctor…it does sound like it will get better if that’s the case. once again best wishes charla

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks to everyone for the replies….. I’ve had lots of dizziness as part of my anxiety, but it’s just since the first Zoloft that I noticed this tendency to get dizzy when I watch something moving fast. It’s very concerning to me in that I always thought of dizziness to be ear-related, but this appears to be caused by some connection with my eyes. My other dizziness that I had before this is also strange, it seems that as long as I keep moving, I’m OK, but the minute I stop moving, I get dizzy. It’s almost as if all of the energy from my nervous system being used to move me around as I walk or run suddenly smashes into my balance system the minute I stop moving (I know thats ridiculous but I’m just using it as an analogy) The other amazing thing is that both my doctor and my therapist told me that zoloft would most likely make it hard to sleep, but the opposite has occured, since taking my first zoloft a few days ago I am increidbly tired (and dizzy). So part of me wants to run and have more medical tests, but then again I’ve been through that whole routine many times before. Thanks again to everyone for the replies. It really helps knowing there are other people out there that are going through this.

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Thanks to everyone for the replies….. I’ve had lots of dizziness as part of my anxiety, but it’s just since the first Zoloft that I noticed this tendency to get dizzy when I watch something moving fast. It’s very concerning to me in that I always thought of dizziness to be ear-related, but this appears to be caused by some connection with my eyes.

There are nerve tract connections between the eyes and the inner ear, and both tell your brain about the orientation of your body in relation to the environment. Ever watch a movie of a roller-coaster and get dizzy and nauseous? The Zoloft may be temporarily accentuating this reaction. It will pass. My other dizziness that I had before this is also strange, it seems that as long as I keep moving, I’m OK, but the minute I stop moving, I get dizzy.

As long as you’re walking you know where your feet are. If you stand still, your anxiety can over-ride the sensory input from your legs that tells your brain you are upright. This results in a sensation of dizziness, and more specically the feeling that you will fall down. I have been so anxious at times that I was unable to just stand. I had to lean against a table or wall. It’s almost as if all of the energy from my nervous system being used to move me around as I walk or run suddenly smashes into my balance system the minute I stop moving (I know thats ridiculous but I’m just using it as an analogy) The other amazing thing is that both my doctor and my therapist told me that zoloft would most likely make it hard to sleep, but the opposite has occured, since taking my first zoloft a few days ago I am increidbly tired (and dizzy).

I was told to take Zoloft in he AM since it can be stimulating and lead to insomnia for the first several days. It can also cause fatigue, although I have never experienced this side effect. So part of me wants to run and have more medical tests, but then again I’ve been through that whole routine many times before.

I think there are physiological explanations for our symptoms of dizziness, but they are not due to organic disease, only anxiety. Thanks again to everyone for the replies. It really helps knowing there are other people out there that are going through this.

Various types of "dizziness" are very common in people with anxiety disorders. Chip Before you buy.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks to everyone for the replies….. I’ve had lots of dizziness as part of my anxiety, but it’s just since the first Zoloft that I noticed this tendency to get dizzy when I watch something moving fast. It’s very concerning to me in that I always thought of dizziness to be ear-related, but this appears to be caused by some connection with my eyes. My other dizziness that I had before this is also strange, it seems that as long as I keep moving, I’m OK, but the minute I stop moving, I get dizzy. It’s almost as if all of the energy from my nervous system being used to move me around as I walk or run suddenly smashes into my balance system the minute I stop moving (I know thats ridiculous but I’m just using it as an analogy) The other amazing thing is that both my doctor and my therapist told me that zoloft would most likely make it hard to sleep, but the opposite has occured, since taking my first zoloft a few days ago I am increidbly tired (and dizzy). So part of me wants to run and have more medical tests, but then again I’ve been through that whole routine many times before. Thanks again to everyone for the replies. It really helps knowing there are other people out there that are going through this.

Hi Steve, Dizziness is my main anxiety symptom too. I also get dizzy sometimes when I am on the computer and I am scrolling through web pages very quickly. It seems to happen when I am very tired. So I try to scroll slowly and take frequent breaks from the computer. Do you experience dizziness when you lay down at night, it feels like you are on a boat on rough seas? When my anxiety was bad this happened everynight, I hated it. There is no quarantee that your sleep will be messed up while on zoloft. Some people do have problems sleeping while others claim their sleep has improved. Your incredible fatigue and dizziness should subside with time. It sounds like you are doing pretty good though. Take care Jackie

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I started on the same dose and felt dizzy too some of the time.  I am up too 100mg without any more sid effects.  i use too be sooooo scared of it but i am actually doing very well. The side effects do go awaya after a few days . I was always scared when they would increase it but then found that it was no big deal.  I am usually very sensitive to meds.  I am really glad to be on it.  My anxiety has really lifted.  I am doing so much more now and can actually enjoy some things now. Good Luck!

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My doctor told me to start Zoloft for anxiety/panic by cutting a 25mg pill in half and taking a half a pill for a week and then start on a whole pill a day. The day of the first half-pill dosage I felt fine (and the doctor said I wouldn’t have any side effects for a few days), but that evening, while watching some animation on my computer screen, I started to get very dizzy as I watched the screen. It seems everytime my eyes are exposed to something in fast motion, I get dizzy. Is this a possible side effect of zoloft on such a low dose, or do I have yet another thing to worry about?

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My doctor told me to start Zoloft for anxiety/panic by cutting a 25mg pill in half and taking a half a pill for a week and then start on a whole pill a day. The day of the first half-pill dosage I felt fine (and the doctor said I wouldn’t have any side effects for a few days), but that evening, while watching some animation on my computer screen, I started to get very dizzy as I watched the screen. It seems everytime my eyes are exposed to something in fast motion, I get dizzy. Is this a possible side effect of zoloft on such a low dose, or do I have yet another thing to worry about?

Hi Steve, Dizziness is a fairly common side-effect of Zoloft.  While it is an uncomfortable side-effect, it is not dangerous and should pass with time. Of course if it is concerning you don`t hesitate to talk to your doctor. Take care. Jackie

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My doctor told me to start Zoloft for anxiety/panic by cutting a 25mg pill in half and taking a half a pill for a week and then start on a whole pill a day.

That is very good. Most doctors start their patients on 25 or 50 mgs and it is really better to *start low and go slow* in order to avoid or minimize initial Zoloft side effects. The day of the first half-pill dosage I felt fine (and the doctor said I wouldn’t have any side effects for a few days), but that evening, while watching some animation on my computer screen, I started to get very dizzy as I watched the screen. It seems everytime my eyes are exposed to something in fast motion, I get dizzy. Is this a possible side effect of zoloft on such a low dose, or do I have yet another thing to worry about?

The way I see it there are three possibilities: – It’s just the old anxiety (did you experience dizziness as an anziety symprom?) – It’s a Zoloft side effect which is very well possible. Some people are more sensitive to these meds than others. In this case you might consider asking for a benzo like Xanax on the side (not a bad idea anyway while weaning on an AD). – Maybe you are so focused on possible side effects that it has becomne a self-fulfilling prophecy IMO you should ask for a benzo on the side and then wait for a few weeks if possible and see how it goes. This is much too early to have any idea about Zoloft being a good med for you or not. I hope it will be. Philip

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HI Steve, I didn’t know they came in 25mgs..I split my 50 in half…It would be cheaper the pharmacist says to buy the 100 and split that in fourths.But I’m so sensitive to change that I stick with what I know. I experienced dizziness the first day starting Zoloft at 12.5 mgs and the doc told me that it was not enough med in my system to have side effects. It was anxiety..I was looking for the side effects.I had increased symptoms of anxiety for the first month starting on Zoloft and it was because I was so anxious about taking it. I told myself everyday I can stop taking this anytime I choose and the dosage I’m taking is so little that these things I’m feeling are the result of my fear of meds and yesterday I was fine and today I will be to…I’m going to give this med time to see if it will help. You can check with your doctor anytime day or night…or call your pharmacist for reassurance..and try to be honest with yourself..Is this anxiety from taking a medicine. Charla

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My doctor told me to start Zoloft for anxiety/panic by cutting a 25mg pill in half and taking a half a pill for a week and then start on a whole pill a day. The day of the first half-pill dosage I felt fine (and the doctor said I wouldn’t have any side effects for a few days), but that evening, while watching some animation on my computer screen, I started to get very dizzy as I watched the screen. It seems everytime my eyes are exposed to something in fast motion, I get dizzy. Is this a possible side effect of zoloft on such a low dose, or do I have yet another thing to worry about?

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