Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Aloha Daltons, I do not specifically about serotonin.  But… After several years of prednisone use I now have a bone density LOSS of about 35% per Dexascan.  No one knew?? the dangers when I started the drug in 1988. It can change,  mood, body weight (moon face), and other not so good side effects.  Avoid when you can and use very carefully.  According to an Endocrinologist sp?, steroids can affect bone density in one year or less. Mele Kaliki Maka, Merry Christmas to All, Edmund, Kauai, HI I have agressivness/anger/mood problems with prednisone in a major way.  This is the most problematic side effect for me.  :(

Yeah, it can do that too. See PI Precaution: http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/pred.htm#sect-Precautions Excerpt: "Precautions: General Precautions The lowest possible dose of corticosteroid should be used to control the condition under treatment, and when reduction in dosage is possible, the reduction should be gradual. Psychic derangements may appear when corticosteroids are used,  ranging from euphoria, insomnia, mood swings, personality  changes, and severe depression, to frank psychotic  manifestations. Also, existing emotional instability or  psychotic tendencies may be aggravated by corticosteroids." I try to stay away from oral steroids like prednisone; have been able to control exacerbations with very high dose inhaled steroids, which is still much less steroid than prednisone, since its targeted to the lungs. So I double, triple, or if necessary quadruple my inhaled steroids during exacerbation (per Action Plan) Note–Oral steroids probably needed for peak flows below 50% of personal best. Ellis

Response:

Aloha Daltons, I do not specifically about serotonin.  But… After several years of prednisone use I now have a bone density LOSS of about 35% per Dexascan.  No one knew?? the dangers when I started the drug in 1988. It can change,  mood, body weight (moon face), and other not so good side effects.  Avoid when you can and use very carefully.  According to an Endocrinologist sp?, steroids can affect bone density in one year or less. Mele Kaliki Maka, Merry Christmas to All, Edmund, Kauai, HI

I have agressivness/anger/mood problems with prednisone in a major way.  This is the most problematic side effect for me.  :(  

Response:

Hi all  :) Anyone know the effect prednisone has on serotonin levels?

Response:

Aloha Daltons, I do not specifically about serotonin.  But… After several years of prednisone use I now have a bone density LOSS of about 35% per Dexascan.  No one knew?? the dangers when I started the drug in 1988. It can change,  mood, body weight (moon face), and other not so good side effects.  Avoid when you can and use very carefully.  According to an Endocrinologist sp?, steroids can affect bone density in one year or less. Mele Kaliki Maka, Merry Christmas to All, Edmund, Kauai, HI

Response:

Anyone know the effect prednisone has on serotonin levels?

I don’t know about serotonin interactions. Here’s a link to PI: http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/pred.htm prednisone Excerpts: "Adverse Reactions: Neurological: Increased intracranial pressure with papilledema  (pseudo-tumor cerebri) usually after treatment; Convulsions;  Vertigo; Headache Endocrine: Menstrual irregularities; Development of Cushingoid state; Secondary adrenocortical and pituitary unresponsiveness, particularly in times of stress, as in trauma,  surgery or illness; Suppression of growth in children; Decreased carbohydrate tolerance; Manifestations of latent  diabetes mellitus; Increased requirements for insulin or  oral hypoglycemic agents in diabetics Ophthalmic: Posterior subcapsular cataracts; Increased  intraocular pressure; Glaucoma; Exophthalmos" Copyright 1998 – Mosby Inc. – Mosby’s GenRx Many asthmatics on oral steroids have been able to switch to High Dose inhaled steroids like Pulmicort or Flovent 220, which results in a smaller systemic dose. Ellis

Response:

Question:

Since I started Singulair 10mg 1x tablets 2 weeks ago, I get headaches almost daily.  (Didn’t have that with Accolate).  I have tried advil and tylenol but neither seems to get rid of the headache completely. Sometimes the headache is on one side only—never had that before. For those with the same sideaffect, what are you taking that seems to work on these headaches?   Thanks, Lynn

Response:

If you are getting headaches from the Singulair you need to call your doctor and tell him. He may advice you to quit taking it. Any side effect of a drug should be reported to your doctor at once!!  Janice – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Since I started Singulair 10mg 1x tablets 2 weeks ago, I get headaches almost daily.  (Didn’t have that with Accolate).  I have tried advil and tylenol but neither seems to get rid of the headache completely. Sometimes the headache is on one side only—never had that before. For those with the same sideaffect, what are you taking that seems to work on these headaches? Thanks, Lynn

Response:

Headaches are a known side affect with Singulair.  My patient information guide shows that and the Dr. has confirmed that.  It is a side affect I am willing to deal with so long as my asthma is controlled.  I have cough asthma and I have tried just about every drug combo/type in the past 2.5 years with no real relief.  So far, I am getting slowly better on the singuliar with Flovent 110 2puffs 2x and albuterol as needed.  At this point I just want to know what works to relieve the headaches and if they will taper off as I adjust to the Singulair over time.  From what I have been told, the answer so far seems to be yes.   Thanks for your reply, Lynn – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you are getting headaches from the Singulair you need to call your doctor and tell him. He may advice you to quit taking it. Any side effect of a drug should be reported to your doctor at once!!  Janice Since I started Singulair 10mg 1x tablets 2 weeks ago, I get headaches almost daily.  (Didn’t have that with Accolate).  I have tried advil and tylenol but neither seems to get rid of the headache completely. Sometimes the headache is on one side only—never had that before. For those with the same sideaffect, what are you taking that seems to work on these headaches? Thanks, Lynn

Response:

Lynn, When you have to start taking meds for the side-effects, there is cause to be concerned.  What the headaches are from??  I tried Singulair and am considering it again (I still have 1/2 bottle left), but I did have flare-up while I was on it and went back to Accolate.  I’m not noticing any side effects, otherwise I’d think twice about continuing. Better report that to the doc too. Since I started Singulair 10mg 1x tablets 2 weeks ago, I get headaches

almost daily.  (Didn’t have that with Accolate).  I have tried advil and tylenol but neither seems to get rid of the headache completely. Sometimes the headache is on one side only—never had that before. For those with the same sideaffect, what are you taking that seems to work on these headaches?   Thanks, Lynn<< Sue M.

Response:

The Prescribing Information shows that headaches with Singular are not significently greater than with placebo. See: www.singulair.com http://www.merck.com/!!vmIKI0y_2vmIKL0ZbE/product/usa/singulair/presc… Adverse Effects "Headache   18.4% with Singulair,  18.1% with placebo" So its rather unlikely that Singulair is the cause of your headaches. However you could try stopping Singulair for a few days to see, with your doctor’s permission. Headache is a known side effects of albuterol. See www.rxlist.com Ellis – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Headaches are a known side affect with Singulair.  My patient information guide shows that and the Dr. has confirmed that.  It is a side affect I am willing to deal with so long as my asthma is controlled.  I have cough asthma and I have tried just about every drug combo/type in the past 2.5 years with no real relief.  So far, I am getting slowly better on the singuliar with Flovent 110 2puffs 2x and albuterol as needed.  At this point I just want to know what works to relieve the headaches and if they will taper off as I adjust to the Singulair over time.  From what I have been told, the answer so far seems to be yes. Thanks for your reply, Lynn If you are getting headaches from the Singulair you need to call your doctor and tell him. He may advice you to quit taking it. Any side effect of a drug should be reported to your doctor at once!!  Janice Since I started Singulair 10mg 1x tablets 2 weeks ago, I get headaches almost daily.  (Didn’t have that with Accolate).  I have tried advil and tylenol but neither seems to get rid of the headache completely. Sometimes the headache is on one side only—never had that before. For those with the same sideaffect, what are you taking that seems to work on these headaches? Thanks, Lynn

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -The Prescribing Information shows that headaches with Singular are not significently greater than with placebo. See: www.singulair.com http://www.merck.com/!!vmIKI0y_2vmIKL0ZbE/product/usa/singulair/presc… fo/pi.html Adverse Effects "Headache   18.4% with Singulair,  18.1% with placebo" So its rather unlikely that Singulair is the cause of your headaches. However you could try stopping Singulair for a few days to see, with your doctor’s permission. Headache is a known side effects of albuterol. See www.rxlist.com

went to that site and searched albuterol…it claims that for inhalation aersols, Proventil is "not rated equivalent" to an equal dose of Ventolin. I just got switched TO Ventolin from Proventil, so I’d like to know from someone who hopefully does: what’s the difference? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Ellis Headaches are a known side affect with Singulair.  My patient information guide shows that and the Dr. has confirmed that.  It is a side affect I am willing to deal with so long as my asthma is controlled.  I have cough asthma and I have tried just about every drug combo/type in the past 2.5 years with no real relief.  So far, I am getting slowly better on the singuliar with Flovent 110 2puffs 2x and albuterol as needed.  At this point I just want to know what works to relieve the headaches and if they will taper off as I adjust to the Singulair over time.  From what I have been told, the answer so far seems to be yes. Thanks for your reply, Lynn If you are getting headaches from the Singulair you need to call your doctor and tell him. He may advice you to quit taking it. Any side effect of a drug should be reported to your doctor at once!!  Janice Since I started Singulair 10mg 1x tablets 2 weeks ago, I get headaches almost daily.  (Didn’t have that with Accolate).  I have tried advil and tylenol but neither seems to get rid of the headache completely. Sometimes the headache is on one side only—never had that before. For those with the same sideaffect, what are you taking that seems to work on these headaches? Thanks, Lynn

– Emily …delete SPAMSTOP to email.

Response:

Headache is a known side effects of albuterol. See www.rxlist.com went to that site and searched albuterol…it claims that for inhalation aersols, Proventil is "not rated equivalent" to an equal dose of Ventolin. I just got switched TO Ventolin from Proventil, so I’d like to know from someone who hopefully does: what’s the difference? Ellis ——cut——- — Emily

Hmmmm. Good question. I thought Ventolin and Proventil (and generic albuterol/salbutamol) MDI’s were equivalent. But you are correct, the site says not only are the MDI’s not equivalent but other forms of albuterol (powder, pills) are not equivalent. However, Ventolin is made by Glaxo of England, and in the US is also supplied as Proventil by Schering under license from Glaxo. I doubt that the differences are significent, and I think if anything that Ventolin is the more reliable product. I think I did see a post that said Schering uses a different pressure in their propellant, but its interesting the other versions of albuterol are also not equivalent; maybe absorbed at a different rate. Ventolin and Proventil both have the same amount of albuterol, 90 mcg/puff at the mouthpiece [100 mcg/puff at nozzle]. My HMO provides generic albuterol MDI’s, Dey. It seems to work as well as Ventolin or Proventil, both of which I have used. http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/albut1.htm albuterol Excerpt: "How Supplied – Rated Therapeutically Equivalent: Aerosol, Metered – Inhalation – 0.09 mg/inh        17 gm, 200 inh                    $22.20                          Ventolin, Refill, Glaxo Wellcome                                                    00173-0321-98        17 gm, 200 inh                    $24.08                          Ventolin, Inhaler, Glaxo Wellcome                                                    00173-0321-88 How Supplied – Not Rated Equivalent: Aerosol, Metered – Inhalation – 0.09 mg/inh        17 gm              $22.20                   Proventil, Schering                                  00085-0614-03        17 gm              $24.09                   Proventil, Schering                                  00085-0614-02 Capsule, Gelatin – Inhalation – 200 mcg        100’s             $24.08                   Ventolin, Rotacaps, Refill, Glaxo Wellcome                                                    00173-0389-02        100’s             $28.42                   Ventolin, Rotacaps, Glaxo Wellcome                                                    00173-0389-01        24’s             $19.51                   Ventolin Rotacaps, Glaxo Wellcome                                                    00173-0389-03 Powder – -        100 gm              $135.00                    Albuterol Sulfate, Elge                                        58298-0509-01        100 gm              $187.50                    Albuterol, Paddock Labs                                        00574-0512-01        25 gm              $52.50                    Albuterol, Paddock Labs                                        00574-0512-25 Tablet, Coated, Sustained Action – Oral – 4 mg        100’s             $63.24                    Volmax, Muro Pharm                                          00451-0398-50        100’s             $63.31                    Proventil Repetabs, Schering                                          00085-0431-02        100’s             $79.28                    Proventil Repetabs, Schering                                          00085-0431-04        500’s             $307.10                    Proventil, Schering                                          00085-0431-03        60’s             $35.67                    Volmax, Muro Pharm                                          00451-0398-00 Tablet, Coated, Sustained Action – Oral – 8 mg        100’s             $117.42                    Volmax, Muro Pharm                                    00451-0399-50        60’s             $63.60                    Volmax, Muro Pharm                                    00451-0399-00" Copyright 1997 – Mosby Inc. – Mosby’s GenRx

Response:

Since I started Singulair 10mg 1x tablets 2 weeks ago, I get headaches almost daily.  (Didn’t have that with Accolate).  I have tried advil and tylenol but neither seems to get rid of the headache completely. Sometimes the headache is on one side only—never had that before.

boy, I thought I was going crazy expirencing this! like you, nothing seems to work, and my asthma doc is convinced there’s "no side-effects" with singulair…maybe it’s finally time to get a second (and third if necessary ) opinion! Judge me all you want, just keep the verdict to yourself

Response:

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Use a D.O. with caution as they do not have the same training as an M.D Margrove, I’ve heard or read that D.O.’s do have the same basic training as M.D.s, and take the same courses as medical students get in medical school. D.O.s are licensed to practice medicine in the state of California. Have you heard about any bad experiences with D.O.s? What is a D.O.? Philip (foreigner)

Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine. Developed 130 years ago by physician A.T. Still, osteopathic medicine is emerging as one of the fastest growing healthcare professions in the U.S. Osteopathic medicine brings a unique philosophy to traditional medicine. With a strong emphasis on the inter-relationship of the body’s nerves, muscles, bones and organs, doctors of osteopathic medicine, or D.O.s, apply the philosophy of treating the whole person to the prevention, diagnosis and treatment of illness, disease and injury. http://www.osteopathic.org — The charter is available at:

Question:

hello all, this is for serafina,doctor is worried about her becoming addicitive to her pain meds she was taking trazadone and he switch to paxil.it must hve been a sales person that visited the Dr. for one would like to here from a doctor that have gone thru  the pain we go thru.oh yeh!his buddies would give  him/her plenty of pain meds.its almost like they make you feel that there’s nothing wrong with you when you no good an well your sick.try a pain clinic and get your meds.and maybe some one on one care.good luck<go to your pcp

beverly – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Serafina wrote:

Say my rheumy yesterday. …   a thoroughly frustrating experience.  My internist is sure that I have Lupus   1:320, excruciating pain in the chest cavity, joints and muscles plus complete exhaustion. Yesterday the rheumy tells me that I have Fibromyalgia and told me to take Paxil and told me not to take Hydrocodone because it is addicitive. I am going a little nutty….more depressed than ever. Why should I switch from Trazadone to Paxil as he suggests and why should he completely discount Hydrocodone, MGN3, MSM and Flaxseed oil. I think I want to hit this guy. He took a blood test but says he is POSITIVE that I do NOT have Lupus. Now what?  any suggestions?        thanks,   Serafina

Response:

I am having lots of trouble with POSTING and REPLYING:   Seems, most everything gets put into the email "sent"  folder. Anyway, my Pain Management Specialist put me on Oxy and Hydrocodone for the pain and Trazadone for depression. My rheumy told me NOT to take Hydrocodone and changed the Trazadone to Paxil. I think you are right….MDs respond to sales persons. Before I go anyfurther, I would like to find out how I can {I have tried creating rules} have news messages posted from only the past 3 days.  I tried but I am still getting all messages posted from when I first signed on:  June 18. So, I have two questions herein……..need help on both……….Serafina "BEVERLY" <sw…@swbell.net

wrote in message

news:3B331F47.C189BD6E@swbell.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

hello all, this is for serafina,doctor is worried about her becoming addicitive to

her pain

meds she was taking trazadone and he switch to paxil.it must hve been a

sales

person that visited the Dr. for one would like to here from a doctor that

have

gone thru  the pain we go thru.oh yeh!his buddies would give  him/her

plenty of

pain meds.its almost like they make you feel that there’s nothing wrong

with you

when you no good an well your sick.try a pain clinic and get your meds.and

maybe

some one on one care.good luck<go to your pcp beverly Serafina wrote: Say my rheumy yesterday. …   a thoroughly frustrating experience.  My internist is sure that I have Lupus   1:320, excruciating pain in the

chest

cavity, joints and muscles plus complete exhaustion. Yesterday the rheumy tells me that I have Fibromyalgia and told me to

take

Paxil and told me not to take Hydrocodone because it is addicitive. I am going a little nutty….more depressed than ever. Why should I switch from Trazadone to Paxil as he suggests and why

should he

completely discount Hydrocodone, MGN3, MSM and Flaxseed oil. I think I want to hit this guy. He took a blood test but says he is POSITIVE that I do NOT have Lupus. Now what?  any suggestions?        thanks,   Serafina

Response:

{{{{{{{Seraphina}}}}}}}} My suggestion would be to see another doctor, this one’s not taking you seriously. love, catherine "Serafina" <nappt…@bigfoot.com

wrote in message

news:cZIX6.169731$I5.48627224@news1.rdc1.tn.home.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Say my rheumy yesterday. …   a thoroughly frustrating experience.  My internist is sure that I have Lupus   1:320, excruciating pain in the

chest

cavity, joints and muscles plus complete exhaustion. Yesterday the rheumy tells me that I have Fibromyalgia and told me to take Paxil and told me not to take Hydrocodone because it is addicitive. I am going a little nutty….more depressed than ever. Why should I switch from Trazadone to Paxil as he suggests and why should

he

completely discount Hydrocodone, MGN3, MSM and Flaxseed oil. I think I want to hit this guy. He took a blood test but says he is POSITIVE that I do NOT have Lupus. Now what?  any suggestions?        thanks,   Serafina

Response:

What mail reader are you using? "Serafina" <nappt…@bigfoot.com

wrote in message

news:TaHY6.3567$F5.1183702@news1.rdc1.tn.home.com…

I am having lots of trouble with POSTING and REPLYING:   Seems, most everything gets put into the email "sent"  folder.

SNIP – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Before I go anyfurther, I would like to find out how I can {I have tried creating rules} have news messages posted from only the past 3 days.  I tried but I am

still

getting all messages posted from when I first signed on:  June 18. So, I have two questions herein……..need help on both……….Serafina

Response:

Thank you…  that is exactly what I intend to do.  THere is a large Lupus clinic with 7 doctors In Asheville N.C.  All they do is work with Lupus Patients. Isn’t is sad that Lupus is so mistreated.  I am sure that if I had AIDS, the doctors would be jumping all over me to HELP.  But for Lupus,  too many doctors pass themselves off as Experts and Gods and most of them have not picked up a Lupus journal or book in over 10 years…. so, what else is new? …….       Serafina "canuckian" <canuckian…@spam.freeze.com

wrote in message

news:_vTX6.38053$TW.189786@tor-nn1.netcom.ca… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

{{{{{{{Seraphina}}}}}}}} My suggestion would be to see another doctor,

this > one’s not taking you seriously. > love, > catherine > "Serafina" <nappt…@bigfoot.com

wrote in message

> news:cZIX6.169731$I5.48627224@news1.rdc1.tn.home.com… > > Say my rheumy yesterday. …   a thoroughly frustrating experience.  My > > internist is sure that I have Lupus   1:320, excruciating pain in the > chest > > cavity, joints and muscles plus complete exhaustion. > > Yesterday the rheumy tells me that I have Fibromyalgia and told me to take

Paxil and told me not to take Hydrocodone because it is addicitive. I am going a little nutty….more depressed than ever. Why should I switch from Trazadone to Paxil as he suggests and why

should

he completely discount Hydrocodone, MGN3, MSM and Flaxseed oil. I think I want to hit this guy. He took a blood test but says he is POSITIVE that I do NOT have Lupus. Now what?  any suggestions?        thanks,   Serafina

Response:

The difference in opinions would definitely be frustrating.  You might try asking them upon what they base their opinions.  After that, you might think about a third opinion.   As for the pain medication, I guess I have a different point of view than your rheumy. I don’t believe there is anything wrong with taking a medication for its intended purpose.  Using a medication appropriately is not abuse.  I also don’t believe in suffering if there is a way to prevent or minimize it.  People who are in constant pain aren’t able to be productive and can end up with poor quality of life.  As to whether one can become an addict while taking a pain medication, I wouldn’t say it couldn’t ever happen.  I do think though that its a secondary concern when someone is suffering from significant pain.  I also don’t believe that addiction itself is a common result of using pain medication appropriately.  Dependence certainly, but not necessarily addiction.  Just my opinion. Anyway, regarding the Paxil versus the Trazadone, you might try consulting a psychiatrist about which would be better.  They’re the true experts when it comes to psychiatric medications.  You might also want to consider asking for a referral to a pain clinic. I’ve known a number of other people who went to pain clinics.  Some were very happy with it and other not.  I don’t know which would be the case for you, but it could be worth a try.   P.S.  My daughter’s first rheumatologist was absolutely certain that my daughter did not have lupus just two weeks before he himself diagnosed her with it (with absolute certainty) and even recommended aggressive treatment. Sandra

Response:

In article <cZIX6.169731$I5.48627…@news1.rdc1.tn.home.com

, Serafina

<nappt…@bigfoot.com

wrote Say my rheumy yesterday. …   a thoroughly frustrating experience.  My internist is sure that I have Lupus   1:320, excruciating pain in the chest cavity, joints and muscles plus complete exhaustion. Yesterday the rheumy tells me that I have Fibromyalgia and told me to take Paxil and told me not to take Hydrocodone because it is addicitive. I am going a little nutty….more depressed than ever. Why should I switch from Trazadone to Paxil as he suggests and why should he completely discount Hydrocodone, MGN3, MSM and Flaxseed oil. I think I want to hit this guy. He took a blood test but says he is POSITIVE that I do NOT have Lupus. Now what?  any suggestions?        thanks,   Serafina

Quote from a talk by a consultant at this year’s Lupus UK conference: *IS* it Lupus? Many of Lupus’s common symptoms overlap with Fibromyalgia (henceforth ‘FM’) also called Chronic Fatigue Syndrome – eg sleep that does not refresh you; vivid dreams; tired-all-day; leaden limbs. Up to 80% of Lupies show FM symptoms. Stress triggers both Lupus and FM. However the treatment is different – in particular, *steroids make FM worse*. For FM, new antidepressant drugs used at 1/20 – 1/10 of full dose can produce refreshing sleep, and also relieve pain that NSAIDs like Aspirin doesn’t. Also, NON-COMPETITIVE exercise is good, ie you don’t try to beat other people, and you don’t set yourself targets like ‘I’ll do 20 lengths today, 21 tomorrow and so on’. end quote Note his point that steroids make Fibromyalgia worse. That’s why your doctors need to get it right! — Andy For Austrian philately <URL: http://www.kitzbuhel.demon.co.uk/austamps/

For Lupus <URL: http://www.kitzbuhel.demon.co.uk/lupus/

For my other interests <URL: http://www.kitzbuhel.demon.co.uk/

Response:

hi serafina! so you went to another uncocerned rheumy.dont stop there even though its hard you’ll find one that will listen to you .i had to got to about five doctors before i found a rheumy and he gve me a referral to a pain mgmnt.and thry are just great!i hve sle,fibro ctd,copd and am a mental pt.so i hve many problems.i go to the pain mgnt center on this thursday.there going to inject steriods into my body.i hope its for the best.i’ll let you know.have you ever had brain fog i ask my mental health dr.and she said yes taking all the meds im taking.its possiable.so when i spell somethuing word please try and de code ok. beverly – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Serafina wrote:

Say my rheumy yesterday. …   a thoroughly frustrating experience.  My internist is sure that I have Lupus   1:320, excruciating pain in the chest cavity, joints and muscles plus complete exhaustion. Yesterday the rheumy tells me that I have Fibromyalgia and told me to take Paxil and told me not to take Hydrocodone because it is addicitive. I am going a little nutty….more depressed than ever. Why should I switch from Trazadone to Paxil as he suggests and why should he completely discount Hydrocodone, MGN3, MSM and Flaxseed oil. I think I want to hit this guy. He took a blood test but says he is POSITIVE that I do NOT have Lupus. Now what?  any suggestions?        thanks,   Serafina

Response:

Hello well well another doctor jumping the gun on what is wrong with someone. Gee is that news… I am so sorry that you have to go through a whole bunch of stuff before someone sees you as a person as well as a patient. this also happened to me, told fibro and then had xray and was told ruptured disc.  I think some docs find this as a good diagnosis for just about anything.  Although fibro is indeed a debilitating illness. The ANA is not an indicator of lupus, it can be negative, that does not mean that it is or isn;’t lupus.  There are many more test to determine this. Have you tried steroids given by the doctor, if they do help then it may not be fibro.  Fibro is worse when someone takes steroids. Sure the hydocodone is addictive, but if it helps you should ask him why in the world would he want you to be in pain if it does INDEED help you. I would ask him right out.  Do you think I am nuts here???? I have done that, boy they back right down on that.  I also think that if you are not satisfied with this doctor there are others around who will help you A second opinion is always welcome here. What kind of blood tests did he take, get the name,  also ask if he did a sed rate to see if indeed there is inflammation present in the body. Go to KCat, here I go again, and get a list of lab tests necessary. then ask him why in the world would he not want to really check it out. I hope you get some help here. Get another opinion… janers

Response:

Hi Serafina, I can only say that I can understand your frustration,and anger. Perhaps the blood work he ordered will prove him wrong. I think most of us have experienced the same thing. I have often said that the specialists almost have to be hit in the face before they can see it. Get another referral if you are not satisfied;but above all, don’t doubt yourself. I got the runaround for many years too. Then all hell broke loose for me physically,and bingo, a diagnosis. My daughter often asks if it makes me angry because I was not being heard all those years, particularly because the symptoms should have been so obvious. Some times I feel cheated,but I’m still here in spite of all the medical mistakes.You can be sure that I am thinking about you even though we have never met. BJ "Serafina" <nappt…@bigfoot.com

wrote in message

news:cZIX6.169731$I5.48627224@news1.rdc1.tn.home.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Say my rheumy yesterday. …   a thoroughly frustrating experience.  My internist is sure that I have Lupus   1:320, excruciating pain in the

chest

cavity, joints and muscles plus complete exhaustion. Yesterday the rheumy tells me that I have Fibromyalgia and told me to take Paxil and told me not to take Hydrocodone because it is addicitive. I am going a little nutty….more depressed than ever. Why should I switch from Trazadone to Paxil as he suggests and why should

he

completely discount Hydrocodone, MGN3, MSM and Flaxseed oil. I think I want to hit this guy. He took a blood test but says he is POSITIVE that I do NOT have Lupus. Now what?  any suggestions?        thanks,   Serafina

Response:

Say my rheumy yesterday. …   a thoroughly frustrating experience.  My internist is sure that I have Lupus   1:320, excruciating pain in the chest cavity, joints and muscles plus complete exhaustion. Yesterday the rheumy tells me that I have Fibromyalgia and told me to take Paxil and told me not to take Hydrocodone because it is addicitive. I am going a little nutty….more depressed than ever. Why should I switch from Trazadone to Paxil as he suggests and why should he completely discount Hydrocodone, MGN3, MSM and Flaxseed oil. I think I want to hit this guy. He took a blood test but says he is POSITIVE that I do NOT have Lupus. Now what?  any suggestions?        thanks,   Serafina

Response:

This is  a commen problem alot of us have gone through unfortunatly. I went through 4 Rheumies before I found one that took it serious. It is so frustrating I would ask your internist is there another rheumy to see second opinion? Good Luck and hang in there Cindy

Response:

On Tue, 19 Jun 2001 14:03:52 GMT, "Serafina" <nappt…@bigfoot.com

wrote:

Say my rheumy yesterday. …   a thoroughly frustrating experience.  My internist is sure that I have Lupus   1:320, excruciating pain in the chest cavity, joints and muscles plus complete exhaustion.

your rheumy is seeing a somewhat low positive ANA and deciding that this is reason enough to say "no lupus".  My rheumy responded the same way *on that matter*.  However….

Yesterday the rheumy tells me that I have Fibromyalgia and told me to take Paxil and told me not to take Hydrocodone because it is addicitive.

okay – Paxil is a decent drug for many. Some people see improvement in pain syndromes (be they FMS or SLE Or whatever) with serotonin reuptake inhibitors (Paxil, Prozac, Zoloft, Effexor).  [note, I did not say "selective" SRIs – Effexor also works on other neurotransmitters).  Effexor relieved my joint pain for about 4 months or less.   This had me believing that it was "all in my head" – but when the pain returned with a vengeance despite continuing on the med, I came away from agreeing with the doctor.  But this doctor is probably assuming that Paxil will lessen your pain and therefore remove your need for trazadone or pain meds.  Trazadone is good for headache problems but not as good for other pain.  Great for sleep though.   you might check with some of the FM support groups to determine if they have had relief from Paxil more so than from Trazadone.

I am going a little nutty….more depressed than ever. Why should I switch from Trazadone to Paxil as he suggests and why should he completely discount Hydrocodone, MGN3, MSM and Flaxseed oil.

I don’t know much about MGN3 and MSM but the Flaxseed Oil is a known anti-inflammatory as well as having other health benefits. I recommend *against* discontinuing it.  ie. – he’s wrong on that one IMO.  As far as getting addicted – well, everyone here that knows me, knows my opinion on this.  Recently two conflicting papers were found in medical journals and depending on the doctor, some took the view I have (you’re in pain, why should you have to suffer, treating pain properly – before it becomes overwhelming – means having to use less pain meds and so on)  some took the other view (pain meds are dangerous, blah, blah, blah).  Gee, can you tell I’m opinionated on this one? for more of my rambling *opinion* you can read my site (new meds, new me) which has a discussion of my experience and what I’ve learned from others about pain meds.  I have taken Lortab (hydrocodone) for 3 years now – as needed.  Some times that meant every day for several weeks, sometimes that meant once a week for several months.  I’ve had one dose in the last three weeks.  so despite three years of access to the drug I have not become addicted or even dependent on it.  I am dependent on Ultram but not addicted – i forget to take it now and then and pay the price.  It is not "recommended" to combine Ultram with SRIs (or other antidepressants) nor with Hydrocodone – but frankly, I’ve had no problem the last three years in taking the occasional Hydrocodone while on a daily dose of Ultram.

I think I want to hit this guy.

be my guest, invite him to my place and we’ll rearrange his thinking…

He took a blood test but says he is POSITIVE that I do NOT have Lupus. Now what?  any suggestions?        thanks,   Serafina

go back to your internist.  Discuss this with him.  Discuss the issues of pain control (there are other methods that can be used in tandem with hydrocodone or in place of it).  I will try to find the articles re: pain control that were posted here some time ago.  My MIL’s doctor agrees with me that chronic sleep and pain problems are undertreated. The thing is, if you’re going to self-medicate (ie., take drugs you don’t need physically because you want them psychologically) you’re going to do it whether it’s hydrocodone or alcohol or chocolate or… get my drift?  Your internist will know your history as far as how you’ve treated your pain meds and since this doctor (rheumy) seems to care little for the discomfort of his patients, then perhaps a pain specialist is in order.  my doc (rheumy) watches my refill pattern and so does the pharmacy – so if I were to start taking the drugs improperly she would know immediately and I’d lose the privelege I have of being allowed to control my own pain. I have found that yoga and other forms of meditation have helped me considerably on joint pain and even the migraines – not a cure by any means, but a good coping mechanism. one last thing to consider – I think rheumies are seeing a *lot* of women with lupus-like symptoms right now as people are becoming more and more aware of the disease via the ‘net mostly.  So I think for some of the there is a sort of backlash – they’ve been taught this is a "rare" disease and are not willing to come away from that outdated thinking.  In addition, some rheumies will refuse to diagnose without major organ involvement because of insurance reasons.  I have learned to live without a firm diagnosis mostly because a) my rhuemy does not discount my pain  b) my rheumy provides plaquenil to help keep flares under control – thereby stating that some sort of autoimmune process is going on and c) I realize that as long as I don’t have that firm diagnosis it means I am not "that" sick.  Hurt like hell sometimes, feel like giving up sometimes, but most of the time aware that these are "mild" symptoms (nothing to do with the level of pain but just the level of risk to my life) and that I can deal with those one way or another.  It is my family doctor that doesn’t like the meds I’m on – but she defers to my rhueumy on this one.  I dont’ know if this is your first rhuematologist visit but if it is, you might consider talking to other lupus patients (and FM and so on) in a local support group to get their feelings on their doctors. kcat the verbose. good luck *********************************** KCat – I am not a medical professional.  The contents of this post are based soley on my experiences and opinions http://www.ghg.net/schwerpt/mypage.htm http://www.ghg.net/schwerpt/aslfaq20.htm   ("`-”-/").___..–”"`-._   (`6_ 6  )   `-.  (     ).`-.__.’`)    (_Y_.)’  ._   )  `._ `. “-..-”   _..`–’_..-_/  /–’_.’ ,’ (()),-”  (()),’    (((.-’

Response:

Question:

thinking of trying zoloft for anxiety.  Has anyone gained weight using zoloft? Anyone happy with zoloft for anxiety ?  T Before you buy.

Response:

has anyone gained weight using zoloft and does it work for anxiety? Before you buy.

Response:

has anyone gained weight using zoloft and does it work for anxiety?

Hi sultan, My weight has remained about the same. I do have a better appetite on Zoloft cos I really didn’t eat much (mainly diet coke and cigs) at all cos I was always anxious or preoccupied. I think the reason for not gaining is that I am physically doing more since I feel more normal on Zoloft. Paxil (which I first tried) had me craving odd things which turned into a 5 lb gain. This was a mixed blessing as there is a restaurant 2 houses down from me with an all you can eat 24/hr day buffet. The appetite had me getting out the house behind these cravings which was good….the forced to leave the house part, but I always got it to go (cancels out the all you can eat benefit) cos I couldn’t stay. With Zoloft, I still don’t eat as much as anyone I know, but I do eat more regularly than every 2 days!! One day I ate 4 times (a record), instead of 1 time,but the Paxil made me feel sluggish and then with all that buffet food in me, I wasn’t progressing just gaining weight and/or sleeping……still saw no sign of life!. YMMV, cos this is definately different than my experience. I usually can eat about an hour after a benzo. Guess it takes that to calm me down enough to get into it. Miriam

Response:

Yes I have gained 25lbs in two months.  I have never had a weight problem. I can do nothing to stop the pound a day I see every morning.  It is really beginning to concern me as my body doesn’t seem to respond to any attempts at weight loss. I am taking it for anxiety but if it’s going to work for me it will be at a higher dose because so far, I still require the xanax daily to stay normal. I do not want to continue with this med if I am going to continue to gain–surely there is another med out there not destined to do the same thing but will still help with the anxiety.  I am interested in hearing from any and all of the responses you have received to this post. Thanks! little bear – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – has anyone gained weight using zoloft and does it work for anxiety? Before you buy.

Response:

see my reponse to your other post – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – thinking of trying zoloft for anxiety.  Has anyone gained weight using zoloft? Anyone happy with zoloft for anxiety ?  T Before you buy.

Response:

Question:

Eleonore Beaudoin wrote:

"You take a "J", that’s a "dshz" and an "am": "am" You put them all together and they spell "yam"??

I know a different version. I think it was sung by Fred Astaire: Come on and hear the yam man cry… Any yaaaaam today? The sweet potatoes that he’ll fry Will be yaaaaaam today The little step that you see him do With every yam that he sells to you Is something that you ought to try COME AND YAM TODAY … Come on, shake your de-pression And let’s have a yam session! There’s that long note. One, two, three… yaaaaaaaam… And much more in the same vein…. I’m afraid I never learnt the full declension of peanuttus butterus. Sorry. I suggest your bird go back to theoretical physics, since as I remember he was on the verge of making some important breakthrough there… Yam-for-brains

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -OB (obl…@my-jamtomorrow.com) writes:

Eleonore Beaudoin wrote: "You take a "J", that’s a "dshz" and an "am": "am" You put them all together and they spell "yam"?? I know a different version. I think it was sung by Fred Astaire: Come on and hear the yam man cry… Any yaaaaam today? The sweet potatoes that he’ll fry Will be yaaaaaam today The little step that you see him do With every yam that he sells to you Is something that you ought to try COME AND YAM TODAY

I remember that one too: Henry the eight I yam I yam Henry the 8th I yam I yam I’ve had troubles with my Windows before They were jam 7 times before " etc?

… Come on, shake your de-pression And let’s have a yam session! There’s that long note. One, two, three… yaaaaaaaam…

yam ta voix yam tes mains Yam ton ti frere ta tite soeur to ti chien Yam papa Yam maman Yam meme toi aussiiiiiiiiii:)

And much more in the same vein…. I’m afraid I never learnt the full declension of peanuttus butterus. Sorry. I suggest your

It is soemthign like "Arachibus elephantibus plantibus cruncheous barbecuorum"…

bird go back to theoretical physics, since as I remember he was on the verge of making some important breakthrough there…

Oh he made the break through: he sold out to the Russians:( (How did you think he leg got amputated anyway? You did not *really* believe a cat chewed THAT bird’s leg off, did you?? Scientific torture, I tell ya!! I should never had let him learn to long on the net:(

Yam-for-brains

Seems like the Russians already used the jam-brain virus he created then…:(. That’ll teach me to remember to not trust a bird in the hand….:(. Specially not a pigeon (messy beaucoup!:)) —

Response:

On Mon, 17 Jan 2000 14:28:09 +0100 OB <obl…@my-deja.com

wrote: ric had the idea of organising another pantomime: Raff could be a beautiful professional woman,

What the giggle? Should I be lereificated once agigglegain? Oh my!

Boris could be a long time ASLer who’s got a bone to pick with Raff,

Is there any BBB? (Borisk of Boring Boreruns).

and you could be Bill Gates… Tell you what – Bill could be Gates,

What do you mean by "could"? Bill *is* Gates. He is disguised because nobody should suspect that, in secret, he uses Netscape!

and that would leave me to be the Horse again, a part with which I am familiar, neigh, word-perfect and have played to packed and boisterously appreciative audiences in venues as diverse as Margate and Southend-on-Sea.

What is the difference between these two audiences? I know that Margate is a town near Folkestone, but what about the other? Or Southend-on-Sea stands for S.O.S.? (Save-us! OB Sucks!) Have puntomime The beautiful Lerei — Free audio & video emails, greeting cards and forums Talkway – http://www.talkway.com – Talk more ways (sm)

Response:

OB, Thank you for this most edifying lesson in Latin. I guess my teachers had no time for breakk or never heard of jam. I now will start teachign Thcip Tchip Latin lessons and will eb able to do it as it shoudl be done: "Jam yesterday, Jam tomorrow, but no Jam today". After a few days he might attack me of course, as peanut buter alone is rather hard to swallow…. Would you happen to knwo how to say "peanut butter" in Latin, BTW? For lack of knowing how to say it, Tchip Tchip refers to it as "MMMM-mmmMMM!", where this comes from the fact that he can not open his beak when it is full of (jamless) peanut butter, thus happenign to make the sound "M", ever since. I am now trying to teach him words starting with "M" using an old Sesame Street tune that went: "You take an "M", That’s an "MMMMmmmm" and an "a,n" : "an". You put them all together and  they spell "Man" That’s *Man*, "M,a,n" : "Man"! You take an "M", That’s a…HhhhhMMMMmmmmmmm And an "a,n": "an", You put them all together and they spell "Man". But so far, he just humms it, going M-mm-m-mmm, mm-mm-mm Mmm-m-m-mmm MMMMM Mmm-mm-mm-mm-m-m-m-m M, M, M! and so on…. Think I shoudl start with the Jam Latin Lesson first? "You take a "J", that’s a "dshz" and an "am": "am" You put them all together and they spell "yam"?? Would not the Yod of the latin "J" get him all confused…??? In that case the Latin for Peanut Butter might help solve this and offer him some better adapted option… Thanks, Chloe – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text - OB (obl…@my-deja.com) writes:

ric wrote:

>> I’m at a loss to understand "jam tomorrow"… like maybe th heck with >> tomorrow?… > "Jam yesterday, jam tomorrow but never jam today". When I was a youngster, back in > the early nineteenth century, every schoolboy had to learn this in their Latin > classes. It describes the correct usage of the Latin adverb "iam" (cognates in > Spanish "ya" and in French "d

Question:

Maybe it’s me on effexor withdrawal, but the proliferation of these multiple threads sucks.  Is there a problem with some people’s browsers?  Why can’t people continue the thread instead of splintering it into another category?  It’s really irritating, especially since my browser is slow and so the extra scrolling, guessing if the discussion is a continuation or new takes a lot of time and money. basically, I’m otta here.  Too slow. Best, AD Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

Actually, a lot of your problem is your browser. Sure, people should be careful not to splinter threads, but a good browser will put most of that back where it goes. I see that you use Netscape3.01 Gold and Windows 95. Chances are that you have room on your hard drive for Agent, which will solve most of your problems. I used to get irritated at the same thing. Keith – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Maybe it’s me on effexor withdrawal, but the proliferation of these multiple threads sucks.  Is there a problem with some people’s browsers? Why can’t people continue the thread instead of splintering it into another category?  It’s really irritating, especially since my browser is slow and so the extra scrolling, guessing if the discussion is a continuation or new takes a lot of time and money. basically, I’m otta here.  Too slow. Best, AD Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

Question:

Hi Jim,     When I lived in the City I saw an excellent pdoc. Her name is Dr. Lauren Gorman, she was at Central Park West. Just wanted to mention a positive Pdoc in the Crazy Crazy City … hummingbrd

Response:

there are  many great doctors in NYC…VERY inexpensive is this place: http://www.nyspi.cpmc.columbia.edu/ Located as part of Columbia,they  offer the newest ideas and most openminded help! Offen for free! ALSO: when I lived on Wooster in  TriBeCa, I often had to work hard to feel clean,bright,special…one of my favorite things to do was the Met. of Art another was to pack a beautiful lunch and  take the ferry to  Statue of Liberty Park…a national Park that over looks a beautiful skyline and ocean scenery,take no alcohol,maybe peaceful tapes and ood food!!Ellis Island gets more crowds, the land around the statue is a delite!maryg Hi Jim,     When I lived in the City I saw an excellent pdoc. Her name is Dr. Lauren Gorman, she was at Central Park West. Just wanted to mention a positive Pdoc in the Crazy Crazy City … hummingbrd

Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

Hi Jim, So it’s Saturday morning and I have a talk therapy appointment at 11. Went to the hospital yesterday to see my psychiatrist, and toughed out the (very) brief meeting with him, not wanting to appear too needy. I’ve been feeling very very crazy & suicidal all week and on Wednesday we upped my Effexor dose to 300mg per day.

Are you still taking Depakote? I had prepared a long logical argument with graphs to convince him that the antidepressant side effects were actually causing more depression than they were treating, but he wanted to try more instead of less (I suggested sliding down from 225mg to 150mg). OK. One of my past bad habits has been becoming so upset & mistrustful of my mental health caregivers that I just bail out. I’m trying to trust this young guy (I’ve been taking SSRIs longer than he’s prescribing them). I think this 300mg dose is starting to undercut the good effects of the Depakote (1250mg).

It may be….I guess only time will tell. Has he considered the possibility of adding a 2nd adjunct MS to the Depakote? But then I had to deal with the billing process and the Medicaid office and the damn back & forth (I’m broke & have no money so the clinic will offer me a sliding scale, but because I need meds I applied for Medicaid, but because I applied for Medicaid the clinic won’t offer me a sliding scale and I won’t find out for 2 weeks whether I’ve been approved for Medicaid und so weiter). It was real bad, very Stanislaw Lem.

The bureaucratic run around is so frustrating….and IMO unnecessary. This is a stressor you definitely don’t need (nor does anyone for that matter)!! I feel like I’m failing, like I’ve failed, like there is nothing ahead of me but decline. I’ve applied for SS Disability but have been denied once and the case is up for review. I haven’t paid rent yet this month, and although my sister has offered financial support, I can’t bring myself to actually avail myself of her help.

Please accept her offer. She wants to help and you can use assistance right now. When I first checked out this newsgroup, I saw a very long and angry rant about (text in quotes roughly from memory) "whiners who expect a handout…should get up off their butts and go out and work for a living…" or something to that effect.

Some of us can, and some cannot…through no fault of our own. I have an internal Republican who also says that kind of stuff to me all day long. He’s also an adamant Social Darwinist who tells me that if I don’t have money I’m worthless and that I should just get off the planet.

You are NOT worthless Jim. Just try to let that thought go!!! I dunno. My history is pretty checkered, but I did manage to keep various jobs for about 27 years. My last job was a vice-presidency. I would really like to get back to work sometime soon, but I feel so sick all the time now…this has been the worst 5 years of my life. SSD would provide a little cushion so I could eat better, not worry so much about turning into one of the myriad homeless, and get back on my feet and put myself back into the world.

I do hope you recieve it soon. Most of the time I think suicide is my only option. I’m so tired of all the pain I live with and I can’t imagine things ever getting any better. Maybe I am just a drain on the resources of others and getting out of everyone’s way would be for the best. If only I could just stop my heart….

I share similar sentiments Jim. I’m so tired of the "med go round." It is neverending. I am filled with hoplessness too <sigh. Mostly what I’m doing is just enduring. Plodding through another miserable day. No suicide, just torture. I have no other tools…. Sorry for the long rant.

Please never apologize for sharing your feelings with us. That is why we exist here. You are a worthwhile person…please  try not to succumb to the negative tapes in your head. I will keep you in my thoughts and prayers. (((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((Jim)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) Yours,

Response:

So it’s Saturday morning and I have a talk therapy appointment at 11. Went to the hospital yesterday to see my psychiatrist, and toughed out the (very) brief meeting with him, not wanting to appear too needy. I’ve been feeling very very crazy & suicidal all week and on Wednesday we upped my Effexor dose to 300mg per day. I had prepared a long logical argument with graphs to convince him that the antidepressant side effects were actually causing more depression than they were treating, but he wanted to try more instead of less (I suggested sliding down from 225mg to 150mg). OK. One of my past bad habits has been becoming so upset & mistrustful of my mental health caregivers that I just bail out. I’m trying to trust this young guy (I’ve been taking SSRIs longer than he’s prescribing them). I think this 300mg dose is starting to undercut the good effects of the Depakote (1250mg). But then I had to deal with the billing process and the Medicaid office and the damn back & forth (I’m broke & have no money so the clinic will offer me a sliding scale, but because I need meds I applied for Medicaid, but because I applied for Medicaid the clinic won’t offer me a sliding scale and I won’t find out for 2 weeks whether I’ve been approved for Medicaid und so weiter). It was real bad, very Stanislaw Lem. I feel like I’m failing, like I’ve failed, like there is nothing ahead of me but decline. I’ve applied for SS Disability but have been denied once and the case is up for review. I haven’t paid rent yet this month, and although my sister has offered financial support, I can’t bring myself to actually avail myself of her help. When I first checked out this newsgroup, I saw a very long and angry rant about (text in quotes roughly from memory) "whiners who expect a handout…should get up off their butts and go out and work for a living…" or something to that effect. I have an internal Republican who also says that kind of stuff to me all day long. He’s also an adamant Social Darwinist who tells me that if I don’t have money I’m worthless and that I should just get off the planet. I dunno. My history is pretty checkered, but I did manage to keep various jobs for about 27 years. My last job was a vice-presidency. I would really like to get back to work sometime soon, but I feel so sick all the time now…this has been the worst 5 years of my life. SSD would provide a little cushion so I could eat better, not worry so much about turning into one of the myriad homeless, and get back on my feet and put myself back into the world. Most of the time I think suicide is my only option. I’m so tired of all the pain I live with and I can’t imagine things ever getting any better. Maybe I am just a drain on the resources of others and getting out of everyone’s way would be for the best. If only I could just stop my heart…. Mostly what I’m doing is just enduring. Plodding through another miserable day. No suicide, just torture. I have no other tools…. Sorry for the long rant. Jim

Response:

Question:

Someone explained to me that the drug has a short half life and needs to be perked up after 12 hours to remain constant

Deb – My shakiness and headaches don’t seem to coincide with my dosing.  As a matter of fact my symptoms don’t seem to coincide with anything, which makes this whole situation much more frustrating. I take my dose at 10:00 p.m. every night.  I have absolutely no trouble falling asleep – it’s staying asleep.  When I wake up at 5:00 a.m. (if I am lucky enuf to have slept the whole night through – rare) I start to shake shortly after I wake up, not instantly upon waking.  This is only 7 hours after I have taken my dose.  Later in the morning I actually feel better. Karen

Response:

I start to shake shortly after I wake up, not instantly upon waking.  This is only 7 hours after I have taken my dose.  Later in the morning I actually feel better.

Dear Karen, Sorry to hear you still don`t feel well!! You say when you wake up you feel shaky, but later in the morning you feel better. Are you feeling better after you have eaten something?? When is the last time you eat or drink something the night before? This may be a long shot, but maybe you are going to long without eating something. Sometimes I will eat dinner at 5pm, and then not eat anything else for the rest of the evening, then the next day when I  wake up I feel a little shaky. Sometimes just having a glass of oj and a slice of cheese, I feel better. You could try at 10pm having a glass of milk and some graham crackers, maybe you might see a difference or maybe you won`t, can`t hurt. Take Care!! Jackie Have you ever noticed? Anybody going slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac.–George Carlin

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Karen, Do you think you could ask your doc about twice daily dosing? I felt MUCH better when I went to this. Someone explained to me that the drug has a short half life and needs to be perked up after 12 hours to remain constant in your blood stream. A few weeks ago, I forgot my evening dose and woke up in a shaky panic – called shrink and she said once I am up to this level (300mg daily split twice) that missing a dose can easily bring on anxiety and that when I DO get off, it needs to be done gradually just like I built up. Just a thought, but it MAY be what is causing you to feel so bad? Your evening dose would be wearing off about midmorning – is this when you feel worse? I also sleep much better if I take my dose at dinner rather than before bed. Take care, Karen

Very interesting.  My doc says the missed dose theory is way overrated.  He said you recover typically in a day and it’s nothing to be concerned about. I have also done very well with twice daily.

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Very interesting.  My doc says the missed dose theory is way overrated.  He said you recover typically in a day and it’s nothing to be concerned about. I have also done very well with twice daily.

I only had the one morning anxiety return on the morning after my missed dose and it was fine by afternoon. I really do not know if it was a breakthough episode or really related to the missed dose, but it seemed to be. Anyway, I am MUCH better about remembering my meds now

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You say when you wake up you feel shaky, but later in the morning you feel better. Are you feeling better after you have eaten something??

I start to feel better after I get up out of bed and get rolling.  I thought maybe it was nutritional too, but food does not seem to matter.  I get shaky when I feel anxious (of course) but then I also get anxious because I get the shakes. Karen

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve been on Serzone since August 13th.  I started at 50 mg and progessed to 100 mg 1x at night.  Now I’ve been bumped to 150 mg and then will go to 200 mg 1x at night. I started to really feel better then had a set back.  I am back to the low level constant shakiness and I have headaches that will not go away.  The headaches start in the back of my neck and end up behind my eye.  I also have some dizziness when I up my dose.  I am really sick of these headaches. Neither Tylenol, Tylenol Sinus or Aleve take it away.  Yesterday I tried a little caffiene and that seemed to help. No trails or nausea or skin crawl, though. I am really sick of feeling this overall weak shakiness, exactly the feeling you have if you have just gotten off the treadmill or stairmaster. I am patiently waiting for my stronger dose of Serzone to kick in.  At least my PA’s have really subsided. In the meantime, I sure could use a neck rub! Karen

I’ll offer some views from someone who has taken Serzone for 1.5 years. (Remember, meds are different with each person) Serzone is an interesting beast.  It was originally thought of as an anti-depressant and then moved towards the anxiety/PD arena.  Through my reading and a top notch local doctor, I found that Serzone can actually INCREASE anxiety in some folks.  I was one of those folks. Serzone did a great job of helping me sleep and has little sexual side effects.  The downside for me was increased low level anxiety. My doctor put me on a very low dose of Xanax (.25mg 3 times daily).  That helped some.  He also increased the Serzone level slowly until my depression was under control.  (He says that Serzone seems to work only at certain dosage levels for each person). I had taken Zoloft for a number of years and tried Paxil after that due to an increase in PAs.  As a final fine tuning, he put me on a low dose of Zoloft.  The combo of Serzone, Xanax, and Paxil was a homerun.  I’ve been in great shape for a long time now. I will note that I also strongly believe in therapy to assist the meds.  I have learned a ton about breathing and relaxation techniques.  I also have learned about self-hypnosis from a terrific therapist.  Finally, I understand myself better and can think through the tough situations that are side-effects of having Panic/Anxiety for a long time. Good luck all.

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As stated above, I STILL have low level shakiness and slight headaches and I am on 150mg twice daily, BUT it is getting better!!!! I have been on 300mg twice daily for 4 weeks. I am thinking about moving from 150 twice daily to 200mg A.M. and 150 P.M. if the docs will do it. I felt better after my increase to 300 but it took a couple of days. I have read that is very common after an increase. I have never heard of a 1x daily dosage and I have also read and heard that a therapuetic dose is between 200-400mg daily. Stick with it as we are all feeling the same symptoms and maybe we can sort this out better with good communication between us! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve been on Serzone since August 13th.  I started at 50 mg and progessed to 100 mg 1x at night.  Now I’ve been bumped to 150 mg and then will go to 200 mg 1x at night. I started to really feel better then had a set back.  I am back to the low level constant shakiness and I have headaches that will not go away.  The headaches start in the back of my neck and end up behind my eye.  I also have some dizziness when I up my dose.  I am really sick of these headaches. Neither Tylenol, Tylenol Sinus or Aleve take it away.  Yesterday I tried a little caffiene and that seemed to help. No trails or nausea or skin crawl, though. I am really sick of feeling this overall weak shakiness, exactly the feeling you have if you have just gotten off the treadmill or stairmaster. I am patiently waiting for my stronger dose of Serzone to kick in.  At least my PA’s have really subsided. In the meantime, I sure could use a neck rub! Karen

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Hi Karen, Do you think you could ask your doc about twice daily dosing? I felt MUCH better when I went to this. Someone explained to me that the drug has a short half life and needs to be perked up after 12 hours to remain constant in your blood stream. A few weeks ago, I forgot my evening dose and woke up in a shaky panic – called shrink and she said once I am up to this level (300mg daily split twice) that missing a dose can easily bring on anxiety and that when I DO get off, it needs to be done gradually just like I built up. Just a thought, but it MAY be what is causing you to feel so bad? Your evening dose would be wearing off about midmorning – is this when you feel worse? I also sleep much better if I take my dose at dinner rather than before bed. Take care, Karen

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I’ve been on Serzone since August 13th.  I started at 50 mg and progessed to 100 mg 1x at night.  Now I’ve been bumped to 150 mg and then will go to 200 mg 1x at night. I started to really feel better then had a set back.  I am back to the low level constant shakiness and I have headaches that will not go away.  The headaches start in the back of my neck and end up behind my eye.  I also have some dizziness when I up my dose.  I am really sick of these headaches. Neither Tylenol, Tylenol Sinus or Aleve take it away.  Yesterday I tried a little caffiene and that seemed to help. No trails or nausea or skin crawl, though. I am really sick of feeling this overall weak shakiness, exactly the feeling you have if you have just gotten off the treadmill or stairmaster. I am patiently waiting for my stronger dose of Serzone to kick in.  At least my PA’s have really subsided. In the meantime, I sure could use a neck rub! Karen

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Have been on serzone 300mg daily for 4 weeks. Ramped up from 200 after 10 days. I have been helped by serzone quite a bit! I have never had real relief however from the slight dizzy feelings and the general visual "trailing" or blurring of images when you move your head to look at something else. I have xanax .25 but only take them as needed. I do not take serzone on a full stomach and have not noticed nausea. I also had low grade headache and for me, mostly pressure in the back of my head before I increased to 300. Also started with a psych doc about 3 weeks ago but I cannot say it is helping much yet or if it will at all. I am going to try to get on ativan to try to combat the low level shaky feelings I seem to still have almost daily, very subtle but not enough to take a xanax as they as so short lived I don’t burn one for the shaky feelings, I just try to ride them out. Good luck on the serzone, it does work for a majority of people.I have consulted a psych doc and the real theraputic dose is 200-400mg daily but they cannot give you that much to start, you MUST ramp up to a higher dose slowly. Do not up it yourself ! Let the group know how you are progressing. It does get better! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  hello all   i have just started serzone (50 mg 2x a day)1 week ago, i also take clonazepam 2mg per day.  i suffer from GAD, and depression–and social phobia.     I am no stranger to clonazepam, but does anyone have any experience with serzone.  i have had a low grade headache and have been dizzy off and on. i understand that serzone is "supposed " to be good foe anx. and dep. please share   thanks Perry

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HI Rocky, Can you explin what you mean by "visual trails"? I am having what I think is trailing but I have not seen a definition online. Thank You – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – hello all  i have just started serzone (50 mg 2x a day)1 week ago, i also take clonazepam 2mg per day.  i suffer from GAD, and depression–and social phobia.    I am no stranger to clonazepam, but does anyone have any experience with serzone.  i have had a low grade headache and have been dizzy off and on. i understand that serzone is "supposed " to be good foe anx. and dep. please share  thanks Perry Perry,         I am on serzone (400mg/day) and was once on your dosage as I was ramping up. I’ve been on it now for nearly 5 months.  It certainly helps me with controlling my anxiety levels.    I experienced quite a few headaches for the first month.  I don’t usually get headaches and so attributed it to the serzone. They subsided when I relaxed/lay down.  I am practically free from bad side effects now, the only one being drowsiness if I take a tablet with only a drink rather than a full meal.  Taking it with milk lessens this side effect for me.  Oh I also get visual trails when I wake up in the morning , this isn’t really a bad side effect.  It’s also a common one. I hope it works out for you. Rocky

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Hi Perry, I began with 50mg daily back on Sep 18th and gradually (weekly) built up to my current target dose of 300mg split into morning and evening. Yes, I did have some headaches, weird skin sensations, nausea and dizziness for the first few days of each increase but they always diminished after that. I found that it helped me GREATLY to take each dose with food (someone here recommended that to me) I have only been at my target dose for about three weeks now and it took quite awhile to notice real improvement, but is has now helped very much. I am sleeping better, have my appetite back, and NO PA’s for past three weeks. In fact I have only had 4-5 of them since starting the Serzone where I was having them 3-4 times a week. I still notice some very minimal side effects but nothing bad-some nausea and a weird skin sensation..kinda like cold chills, about an hour after each dose..I call this the "hit" but it passes quickly. I took .5mg Klonopin with each dose as I built up but noticed I was feeling very sleepy so I cut it back gradually to .25mg with each dose and now I feel less tired for sure. Next step for me is to try eliminating the Klonopin and I think I can do it since the Serzone is helping so much, but if not, no big deal because I am taking only a tiny amount. For me, this drug is the first one to really help me. I have been through Prozac, Zoloft, Effexor, Depakote and Paxil. None of these others were for me I guess. Hey you guys on Serzone!! How about jumping in here? Debbie, Karen, Eric, Steve, BG and others??? Take care,

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 hello all   i have just started serzone (50 mg 2x a day)1 week ago, i also take clonazepam 2mg per day.  i suffer from GAD, and depression–and social phobia.     I am no stranger to clonazepam, but does anyone have any experience with serzone.  i have had a low grade headache and have been dizzy off and on. i understand that serzone is "supposed " to be good foe anx. and dep. please share   thanks Perry

I seem to have gathered the information that Serzone is not really a first choice med for PAD (although remarkably quite some people here have positive reports) but works well when used in conjunction with Xanax. (Maybe you could try Xanax instead of Klonopin, which also seems logical as Xanax will often kill breakthrough PA’s within 15 minutes and you already have a maintenance med in Serzone). Philip (FWIW)

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 hello all   i have just started serzone (50 mg 2x a day)1 week ago, i also take clonazepam 2mg per day.  i suffer from GAD, and depression–and social phobia.     I am no stranger to clonazepam, but does anyone have any experience with serzone.  i have had a low grade headache and have been dizzy off and on. i understand that serzone is "supposed " to be good foe anx. and dep. please share   thanks Perry

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hello all  i have just started serzone (50 mg 2x a day)1 week ago, i also take clonazepam 2mg per day.  i suffer from GAD, and depression–and social phobia.    I am no stranger to clonazepam, but does anyone have any experience with serzone.  i have had a low grade headache and have been dizzy off and on. i understand that serzone is "supposed " to be good foe anx. and dep. please share  thanks Perry

Perry,         I am on serzone (400mg/day) and was once on your dosage as I was ramping up. I’ve been on it now for nearly 5 months.  It certainly helps me with controlling my anxiety levels.    I experienced quite a few headaches for the first month.  I don’t usually get headaches and so attributed it to the serzone. They subsided when I relaxed/lay down.  I am practically free from bad side effects now, the only one being drowsiness if I take a tablet with only a drink rather than a full meal.  Taking it with milk lessens this side effect for me.  Oh I also get visual trails when I wake up in the morning , this isn’t really a bad side effect.  It’s also a common one. I hope it works out for you. Rocky

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Question:

First day on 150 milligrams, down from 225 around a week ago.

I don’t know, RGB…just be careful cuz I personally had a horrible time withdrawing from Effexor when I got down to the very minute doses.  I don’t know if you are going off it completely or not but just a kind of FYI that the wierd, electrical fuzzy feeling didn’t start until I was to a 1/4 a tablet a day.   Nik "I want to believe"……The X-Files ICQ # 7859124

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Oh, it gets better, RGB. Just wait for the bedspins, brain shivers, and nausea. — For more information about this service, send e-mail to:

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Oh, it gets better, RGB. Just wait for the bedspins, brain shivers, and nausea.

Bedspins? My bed was thumping like in the Exorcist. And I had Florida lightning storms between my ears and throughout my body. And nausea so bad I had to live on formula. Damn stuff works so well for so many and was such poison to me. Hey, this is a clue. Effexor is an SNRI isn’t it? — bev ~~~ veb ~~~~~~ vaj ~~~ http://members.tripod.com/~Veb

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Oh, it gets better, RGB. Just wait for the bedspins, brain shivers, and nausea. Bedspins? My bed was thumping like in the Exorcist. And I had Florida lightning storms between my ears and throughout my body. And nausea so bad I had to live on formula. Damn stuff works so well for so many and was such poison to me. Hey, this is a clue. Effexor is an SNRI isn’t it?

Yes, it’s an SNRI. I dropped from 375 mg to 300 mg a couple of weeks ago.  I thought the electric stuff was gone, but it keeps coming back – right down my arms and legs.  I hate the feeling.  Is this common? The good news is…I’m much more orgasmic.  The bad news is…there’s nobody but me to provide the orgasms.  <sigh Bluebird

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 I kinda liked the electric feeling thing tho.  It’d hit me as a ZOOM thru my head.  Weird but neat. charlie

I HATED this feeling!  I get nauseous just thinking about it. It’s me glad to finally be off the stuff! — For more information about this service, send e-mail to:

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 Sexual desire *  * I like this one.

Does this mean your cute little pet is in danger? Stuck

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RGB, Wait for the delayed orgasms. I was a 45 year old woman having "wet dreams" like a 13 year old boy. This happened BOTH times I came off (and I do mean "came") off Effexor. LynnCGiff Somedays you’re the pigeon, somedays you’re the statue. Lynn from North Dakota

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First day on 150 milligrams, down from 225 around a week ago.

Got off Effexor (which did nothing for me) awhile back.  My shrink did NOT prepare me for the withdrawal effects.  I had horrendous panic attacks and insomnia.  Frantic calls to the Doc. got me something (?) that calmed me down as I made the transition to Prozac.  (which also doesn’t do much for me.)  I kinda liked the electric feeling thing tho.  It’d hit me as a ZOOM thru my head.  Weird but neat. charlie

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What’s a "Brain Shiver" ?!? entropy Well, they’re hard to describe to someone who hasn’t had the experience. They’re kind of like dizziness, but not quite the same thing.  The best description I’ve heard is that it feels like your brain is loose inside your head, and when you moved your head, it rattles around.  Really, it’s a horrible feeling.

Oh my goodness, is that what it’s called? I got that when I was on both Paxil and Neurotonin, and I was in the emergency room twice for it. No one had a clue what I was talking about. Wish I had heard of this a few months ago. . .  :-p –Christine — "America’s health care system is second only to Japan… Canada, Sweeden, Great Britain, … well all of Europe. But you can thank your lucky stars we don’t live in Paraguay!"                 –Homer Simpson

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  What’s a "Brain Shiver" ?!? It’s not a technical term, just something we on asd have shared enough info about, that the phenomenon developed a name.  I doubt shrinks call ‘em "brain shivers"  In fact, most pdocs don’t seem to know anything about ‘em!! Sounds to me like a sudden burst of dizziness, and God knows I’ve had those.

For me, there’s an element of dizziness, but it’s more like a jolt of electricity that starts at the back of my head and zaps down my neck to my fingers and toes.  I hate them – but I like Effexor, so I’ve got to live with them.  The worst ones are the dizzying ones that make me feel as if I’m going to pass out.  I had one of those at the mall, and I had to hide it from my kids. Bluebird

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  What’s a "Brain Shiver" ?!? Oh my goodness, is that what it’s called? I got that when I was on both Paxil and Neurotonin, and I was in the emergency room twice for it. No one had a clue what I was talking about. Wish I had heard of this a few months ago. . .  :-p –Christine

It’s not a technical term, just something we on asd have shared enough info about, that the phenomenon developed a name.  I doubt shrinks call ‘em "brain shivers"  In fact, most pdocs don’t seem to know anything about ‘em!! — For more information about this service, send e-mail to:

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When I went thru EFXR withdrawal, I had "brain shivers" too. It was like if I turned my head suddenly it would take my brain a second to catch up. Then my brain would kind of bounce around in my skull for a few seconds. Not painful but really annoying and disorienting. Not unlike that "elevator thing" but confined to my head. Lynn

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Oooh, yes, I get that when I miss my zoloft for even a day. I went to visit a friend a few weeks ago and i brought the wrong medicine bottle (I keep aspririn in the used ones), so I missed it for 3 days and on the walk home, my legs kept jerking with the brain shocks, made it very hard to walk. e

: When I went thru EFXR withdrawal, I had "brain shivers" too. : It was like if I turned my head suddenly it would take my brain a second to : catch up. Then my brain would kind of bounce around in my skull for a few : seconds. Not painful but really annoying and disorienting. Not unlike that : "elevator thing" but confined to my head. : Lynn — 101011110100010101010000101110100101010101010010100010011111101010100100001 0100         This .signature sold by weight, not by volume.       Some settling of contents may occur during shipping.

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Yuck. I missed just *2 days of 75mgs a day*, and I thought I was going to die from the withdrawl symptoms. It wouldn’t have been as bad if I hadn’t have had to go to class that day. First day on 150 milligrams, down from 225 around a week ago. I don’t know, RGB…just be careful cuz I personally had a horrible time withdrawing from Effexor when I got down to the very minute doses.  I don’t know if you are going off it completely or not but just a kind of FYI that the wierd, electrical fuzzy feeling didn’t start until I was to a 1/4 a tablet a day. Nik

–Christine — "America’s health care system is second only to Japan… Canada, Sweeden, Great Britain, … well all of Europe. But you can thank your lucky stars we don’t live in Paraguay!"                 –Homer Simpson

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 I kinda liked the electric feeling thing tho.  It’d hit me as a ZOOM thru my head.  Weird but neat. charlie I HATED this feeling!  I get nauseous just thinking about it. It’s me glad to finally be off the stuff!

hi .. first of all im battling this withdrawal thing too..i’ve gone to the end of a prescription and not refill and miss a day and it’s as if my systems shut down after that…… this BRAIN SHIVER that many refer to is a buzzing numbing sensation in the back and top of my skull….. i have definitely related the fact that excessive eye movement or quick attempts to focus cause it to FIRE… i can only imagine how REM sleep affects you… you can only regulate your eye movement so much though.. it is indeed a sickening feeling.. i am down to 50mg per day once a day… i only take the medicine the first BRAIN SHIVER of the day.. so as to hold off as long as possible til next dosage.. i am gonna wait til i can half my way to nothing.. im sick of this drug it makes me feel like a computer with corrupt RAM.. anyway.. i have also been supplimenting my diet with GINSENG, GOTU KOLA (for memory), and ST. JOHN’S WORT.. as long as im trying to get off the drug that supposedly makes me feel better, i might as well take something natural to increase those reuptake zones.  i haven’t noticed any true physical withdrawal .. only the brain feeling and the fact that that causes you to feel like shit everywhere else.. so everything is mental haywire.  the only other time in life when i’ve felt this brain shiver thing was when i was EXTREMEMLY pissed off and irate… the kind of mad you only get every blue moon.. and that buzzing sensation occurs… i remember it.  good luck everyone with your struggle. eliot

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What’s a "Brain Shiver" ?!?

A sensation that seems to localized in your brain and can feel like a anything from a shiver to a lightning storm. It can hurt. Similar sensations can occur in other parts of the nervous system. I think the physicians and scientists are baffled. or they think we’re nuts. — bev ~~~ veb ~~~~~~ vaj ~~~ http://members.tripod.com/~Veb

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What’s a "Brain Shiver" ?!? entropy

You know that feeling when you shiver that it starts in one place and goes up (or down) the rest of your body?  Well it’s kind of like that but through your head.  At least that was my experience. I completely was unprepared for the withdrawal effects of Effexor and told my doc that he should be sure to let people know what to expect before taking them off.  I would never go thru that again!! "I want to believe"……The X-Files ICQ # 7859124

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What’s a "Brain Shiver" ?!? entropy

Well, they’re hard to describe to someone who hasn’t had the experience.   They’re kind of like dizziness, but not quite the same thing.  The best description I’ve heard is that it feels like your brain is loose inside your head, and when you moved your head, it rattles around.  Really, it’s a horrible feeling.   — For more information about this service, send e-mail to:

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What’s a "Brain Shiver" ?!? entropy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Oh, it gets better, RGB. Just wait for the bedspins, brain shivers, and nausea. — For more information about this service, send e-mail to:

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Yes, it’s an SNRI.

Norepinephrine then, I had trouble with too much of that maybe. I dropped from 375 mg to 300 mg a couple of weeks ago.  I thought the electric stuff was gone, but it keeps coming back – right down my arms and legs.  I hate the feeling.  Is this common?

No, just extremely disturbing. Effexor is actually one of the drugs with low incidence of side effects – few people getting them. I only personally know three people who’ve taken it. The other two had no problem at all, stuff worked fine, one even quit cold-turkey. I went through hell. The good news is…I’m much more orgasmic.  The bad news is…there’s nobody but me to provide the orgasms.  <sigh

Oh well. — bev ~~~ veb ~~~~~~ vaj ~~~ http://members.tripod.com/~Veb

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