Question:

Hi jenwolf, I don’t know what your situation is, but if you don’t have insurance or lost your insurance coverage most states have an insurance pool available to residents that can’t get private insurance due to chronic illness, birth defects or the like.  I would call your State Insurance Office and see what kind of coverage is available including prescription drugs (this is not through welfare and there is a cost).  I have had to go through this a million times because my youngest child was born with a life long birth defect and no one other than group insurance will touch him…recently ditto for myself and my other son with asthma.  Really raises the blood pressure at times, for sure. Best wishes, Patrice – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – can someone please tell me if there is any help anywhere for this. i have about a month left. please don’t suggest welfare, they have turned me away already. someone mailed me a link to http://www.themedicineprogram.com/ but I’m a lot skeptical about something like this when it’s being done out of a p.o. box and requiring at least $5 up front. please don’t suggest getting samples from my doctor. I take several nebulizer solutions plus singulair and theophyline

Response:

Hello Jenwolf     I just checked this other site and it has some very good info for free so take a look. http://www.needymeds.com/index.html Thanks Lane Lewis

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – can someone please tell me if there is any help anywhere for this. i have about a month left. please don’t suggest welfare, they have turned me away already. someone mailed me a link to http://www.themedicineprogram.com/ but I’m a lot skeptical about something like this when it’s being done out of a p.o. box and requiring at least $5 up front. please don’t suggest getting samples from my doctor. I take several nebulizer solutions plus singulair and theophyline

Response:

Hello Jenwolf     I just checked this other site and it has some very good info for free so take a look. http://www.needymeds.com/index.html

Yes, that one was much more helpful. The thing that bothers me is that some of these companies have an income limit. One said not over $1200/month for a family of 2. Our income is just *slightly* over that right now. What these individual companies don’t seem to realize is that the drug they manufacture is not the only drug I need. The cost for all of them approaches $1000. That’s nearly *all* of our income just for medications. There’s no way we can afford it. Some other people suggested I check into a state insurance pool. Michigan has no such thing. Just some laws about covering people with pre-existing conditions, but that only pertains to employers offering employees insurance through insurance companies within the state. The law has a huge loophole in that they can offer insurance through an out-of-state company which doesn’t have to follow Michigan law or they can offer a private insurance which is not regulated by the state. I found only one insurance company that would sell a policy to a private individual, but they don’t offer prescription coverage to individuals at all. I only got lucky that my husband’s other employer seems to have paid the premium that I am covered under even though they didn’t have to since he’s laid off. So, at least I will be able to get another 3 month supply of everything for about $50. This still doesn’t solve the problem, it just puts a band-aid on it. What we need is a *federal* pool. Or I need to move to SC or CO.

Response:

This insurance program is sometimes listed under wierd things in the blue pages. Try your state insurance commissioner’s office. Also, there are patient advocacy groups that sometimes have all this information together. Under Michigan State Government on the web, I found this page which has a way to access consumer information services of the Michigan State Insurance Bureau: http://www.cis.state.mi.us/ins/  Good luck. Linda

Thank you for the link. I managed to find the number to the state health insurance bureau and called them. For about $200/month I can get health insurance that covers a lot of things: office visits, lab work, x-rays, dental, optical, hospitalization etc … but not prescriptions. They suggested I call the welfare people. When I told them I’d already been turned away by the welfare people, they said "sorry, can’t help ya" Now I know why so many sick people in Michigan kill themselves.

Response:

Links for free drugs for the needy: http://www.themedicineprogram.com/ The Medicine Program "MEDICINE at NO COST!

Medicine at no cost, just be sure you send $5 per medicine requested to this p.o. box and, oh btw, there’s no guarantee. Sounds like a scam to me. The others I haven’t looked at. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – http://www.needymeds.com/index.html  Free Meds http://www.aaaai.org/professional/physicianreference/drugassistance.stm Prescription Assistance

Response:

Hello Jenwolf     Send them the money. They will send you the forms for the free meds. This is legit but there are no guarantees that you will qualify and only some meds such as accolate are available. The drug companies themselves put on these programs for the needy but not all of them do so this service will tell you which ones do and do not. You could try contacting them directly but I’m not sure they would respond. Didn’t you post this about six months ago it’s what got me interested in this and thanks to the person who first posted the link. Thanks :O) Lane Lewis

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – can someone please tell me if there is any help anywhere for this. i have about a month left. please don’t suggest welfare, they have turned me away already. someone mailed me a link to http://www.themedicineprogram.com/ but I’m a lot skeptical about something like this when it’s being done out of a p.o. box and requiring at least $5 up front. please don’t suggest getting samples from my doctor. I take several nebulizer solutions plus singulair and theophyline

Response:

Links for free drugs for the needy: http://www.themedicineprogram.com/ The Medicine Program "MEDICINE at NO COST! http://www.needymeds.com/index.html  Free Meds http://www.aaaai.org/professional/physicianreference/drugassistance.stm Prescription Assistance

Response:

can someone please tell me if there is any help anywhere for this. i have about a month left. please don’t suggest welfare, they have turned me away already. someone mailed me a link to http://www.themedicineprogram.com/ but I’m a lot skeptical about something like this when it’s being done out of a p.o. box and requiring at least $5 up front. please don’t suggest getting samples from my doctor. I take several nebulizer solutions plus singulair and theophyline

Response:

Hi jenwolf, I don’t know what your situation is, but if you don’t have insurance or lost your insurance coverage most states have an insurance pool available to residents that can’t get private insurance due to chronic illness, birth defects or the like.  I would call your State Insurance Office

I’ve heard of this for auto insurance, but not medical. State Insurance Office. I don’t even know that Michigan has one. I can try to find out. What state are you in?

Response:

I’m in South Carolina.  Look in your blue pages under State Insurance Department.  I live in one of the most backward states in the US, so that gives me hope that your state has comparable benefits.  (I know there are SC residents that lurk on this ng, so please don’t flame me for this comment.)

Hmmm, all I can find is listed under community services – insurance complaints – insurance information hotline. I suppose I could call them and complain about being excluded from every medical insurance on the planet just because I have asthma and depression and need about $1000 worth of medication every month. But there’s no listing under the state section. Shrug. Interesting that they also list the suicide prevention hotline under insurance complaints. ‘Course lack of adequate medical care is probably the number 1 reason people in Michigan kill themselves. Not very encouraging, that.

Response:

This insurance program is sometimes listed under wierd things in the blue pages. Try your state insurance commissioner’s office. Also, there are patient advocacy groups that sometimes have all this information together. Under Michigan State Government on the web, I found this page which has a way to access consumer information services of the Michigan State Insurance Bureau: http://www.cis.state.mi.us/ins/  Good luck. Linda – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m in South Carolina.  Look in your blue pages under State Insurance Department.  I live in one of the most backward states in the US, so that gives me hope that your state has comparable benefits.  (I know there are SC residents that lurk on this ng, so please don’t flame me for this comment.) Hmmm, all I can find is listed under community services – insurance complaints – insurance information hotline. I suppose I could call them and complain about being excluded from every medical insurance on the planet just because I have asthma and depression and need about $1000 worth of medication every month. But there’s no listing under the state section. Shrug. Interesting that they also list the suicide prevention hotline under insurance complaints. ‘Course lack of adequate medical care is probably the number 1 reason people in Michigan kill themselves. Not very encouraging, that.

Response:

I’m in South Carolina.  Look in your blue pages under State Insurance Department.  I live in one of the most backward states in the US, so that gives me hope that your state has comparable benefits.  (I know there are SC residents that lurk on this ng, so please don’t flame me for this comment.) Good luck, Patrice – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi jenwolf, I don’t know what your situation is, but if you don’t have insurance or lost your insurance coverage most states have an insurance pool available to residents that can’t get private insurance due to chronic illness, birth defects or the like.  I would call your State Insurance Office I’ve heard of this for auto insurance, but not medical. State Insurance Office. I don’t even know that Michigan has one. I can try to find out. What state are you in?

Response:

Question:

I don’t know much about what melatonin would do, or have any authority in the medical area at all. This is widely hyped as a ‘natural’ sleep aid. A good write up on it can be found at:

http://www.hcrc.org/cgi-bin/mfs.cgi/20/web/u7/www11417/www/contrib/ac… cles/melaton.html I use melatonin once in a while.  If I’m having trouble sleeping I much prefer a combination of valerian, skullcap and passion flower.  You can’t take valerian every night though, so I only add that if I really need it or at a maximum of 3 nights a week.  You can take everyday the first week you use it or if you do not use it often (IOW if a break of several weeks occurs between usages) but don’t take it every day for longer than a week. Valerian is also a natural muscle relaxant.  If it were me, I’d use it every night for 7 nights and then 3 times a week thereafter if I had chronic muscle cramps.  It works quite well and you should find that you don’t actually need it every night after the first go.   Skullcap and passionflower can be used more often.  Skullcap is a lovely soothing herb that helps the nervous system as well as helping with sleep. I prefer to use melatonin only when traveling internationally or across several time zones.   Melatonin is a hormone produced by the body but the amount the body produces decreases with age. I have not found it to react with my asthma medications which include Flovent, Serevent, Singulair and Albuterol.   Loki

Response:

He’s probably thinking of Levbid – used for colonic spasm and such.

Response:

Ellis; thank you for your reply, I looked up some of the reactions of drugs I took, CECLOR,ASMACORT, PREDNISONE,AEROBID,VANCANASE, MEDROL, DELTASONE. HISMANOL, AND INTAL(THIS ONE JUST LOST ANY HELP AFTER OVER A YEAR ON IT.  hives, 43#  rapid gain wt. headaches and abdominal cramps, and fluid accumclations in large amounts.  the preventil-albuterol and the intal, accolate,  was good, the singular switch seemed o.k.     I also have tried over and over to use the flo-meter and can never get it over 140 course I havent blown up a bloon since I was a kid.     Because this doctor  is good enough to see me after I challenged the other one I am afraid to make waves     again thanks for the concern i will read the other comments as they help my attitude, glad i was older before I got this problem, really can’t complain as I had a good life. MRS ehoward

Response:

I don’t know much about what melatonin would do, or have any authority in the medical area at all.

This is widely hyped as a ‘natural’ sleep aid. A good write up on it can be found at: http://www.hcrc.org/cgi-bin/mfs.cgi/20/web/u7/www11417/www/contrib/ac…

Response:

For two years I took melatonin every day , I have asthma and was taking abuterol,x2 puffs, 4times a day and at night taking singular before bed. about three months ago I had over twenty attacts of sever muscular cramps in my rt. upper quadrant, so severe I was in tears.  My dr. put me on LIVBID and it corrected  the pain quickly, the day I started livbid i quit the melatonin.(took it to help sleep and my hair grew longer than ever in my whole life)  Now if I go off the livbid my pain returns in my right Quadrant  This pain has been an off again on again problem with me four or more years before I was diagnosed with asthma, say about 14 years and I have been through the standard upper, lower, etc  type exaimes.

Re: Pain in upper right quadrant; could be liver problems. There is a warning on Accolate (similar to Singulair) to notify doctor if this happens; liver function tests may be needed. Re: Singulair; this is a new drug that helps about 2/3 astmatics who take it. If it doesn’t help it shouldn’t be continued. Sometimes a smaller dose is prescribed; the 5 mg (child’s dose) instead of 10 mg adult dose. Older adults metabolize the drug more slowly. Re: albuterol 2 pf x4. New asthma guidelines indicate if you need more than 1 pf/day, inhaled steroids should be added or increased. You didn’t mention taking any inhaled steroids (Vanceril, Azmacort, Pulmicort, Flovent, Aerobid). These are the main treatment drugs for asthma. Another drug to try in your case is Atrovent inhaler. It’s also available as Combivent, a combination of Atrovent and albuterol. Re: LIVBID  I think you must have the name wrong. It isn’t listed in drug books and a web search came up with nothing. Re: melatonin–Here’s a link: http://209.67.220.19/mayo/9708/htm/melaton.htm Melatonin http://209.67.220.19/mayo/9708/htm/mela_1sb.htm side effects Re: leg cramps–you could have a potassium deficiency from the albuterol or other drugs. Be sure to eat lots of bananas and drink orange juice; and eat other fruits and vegetables. I would recommend reading up on asthma. A couple of good books are The Asthma Sourcebook by Francis Adams, MD  A new edition just came out. Dr. Adams is a pulmonologist specializing in asthma. Another good book by the same author is The Breathing Disorders Sourcebook. Both can be ordered at your bookstore or available at amazon.com online. By understanding asthma better, you can tell whether your doctor is treating it effectively. If you aren’t on a steroid inhaler, I would want to know why not. (Pulmicort or Flovent best) You might benefit from a 2nd opinion from a major asthma clinic or teaching hospital. Ellis   My asthma is chemically induced  and the list of – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – chemicals is extremely long, plus other sources such as burning wood  in chimneys, dyes and so on.  I also have leg cramps and foot cramps after    seven years of asthma treatments and many reactions to drugs I thought the singular was my answer now I am mixed up after reading all your post.   I cannot sleep as well as i did when I took the melatonin, I cannot find out why the pain returns within 24 hrs of the stopping of livbid and I get no better socially as i have not been to a show in a decade, every time i try to go too church I am run over with cough drops and embarrased  I can not shop at a mall and am slowly becoming a house prisoner and it makes me dam mad that I have spent so much money and taken so dam many pills and now I  seem worst than before,  the last time I changed drs. I got a misss diagnosis as he read the X-ray report wrong and then when I called him on it he reused totreat me futher which I then went to a pulmonary spec, who i follow  as well as I can every afford, am 65 yrs old  what would you do next??//.

Response:

For two years I took melatonin every day , I have asthma and was taking abuterol,x2 puffs, 4times a day and at night taking singular before bed. about three months ago I had over twenty attacts of sever muscular cramps in my rt. upper quadrant, so severe I was in tears.  My dr. put me on LIVBID and it corrected  the pain quickly, the day I started livbid i quit the melatonin.(took it to help sleep and my hair grew longer than ever in my whole life)  Now if I go off the livbid my pain returns in my right Quadrant  This pain has been an off again on again problem with me four or more years before I was diagnosed with asthma, say about 14 years and I have been through the standard upper, lower, etc  type exaimes.   My asthma is chemically induced  and the list of chemicals is extremely long, plus other sources such as burning wood  in chimneys, dyes and so on.  I also have leg cramps and foot cramps after    seven years of asthma treatments and many reactions to drugs I thought the singular was my answer now I am mixed up after reading all your post.   I cannot sleep as well as i did when I took the melatonin, I cannot find out why the pain returns within 24 hrs of the stopping of livbid and I get no better socially as i have not been to a show in a decade, every time i try to go too church I am run over with cough drops and embarrased  I can not shop at a mall and am slowly becoming a house prisoner and it makes me dam mad that I have spent so much money and taken so dam many pills and now I  seem worst than before,  the last time I changed drs. I got a misss diagnosis as he read the X-ray report wrong and then when I called him on it he reused totreat me futher which I then went to a pulmonary spec, who i follow  as well as I can every afford, am 65 yrs old  what would you do next??//.

Response:

: wrong and then when I called him on it he reused totreat me futher which : I then went to a pulmonary spec, who i follow  as well as I can every : afford, am 65 yrs old  what would you do next??//. I have heard of a saline spray for blocked throat in glandular fever. Also the lungs are high in sodium compared to other body tissues. Cramp can be a result of too little salt. Have you changed your diet apart from melatonin? Perhaps salt helps to slow the heart, a little, too, maybe if it is with some potassiium chloride, too, and helps sleep. That would be if your kidneys are not hanging on to salt because of lack of the hormone aldosterone. Or perhaps if you take diuretic. Sometimes you are told you should not reduce salt intake when on certain diuretics. The sodium/potassium balance deserves care, also when experimenting. I don’t know much about what melatonin would do, or have any authority in the medical area at all. Dodo Dolphin

Response:

Question:

I do not take that medication but I did used to have tingling in my extremities. They said that when I was having a problem breathing that I would get scared and start to hyperventilate. This causes the tingling in the legs, feet, arms, hands and face. This may be your problem but I would seriously talk to you doctor about it. Shannon

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve noticed on this newsgroup that many Singulair users have muscle cramps as a side effect of taking that medication. But, has any noticed numbness or tingling in the arms or legs while taking Singulair.   I’ve had tingling and numbness in my left foot for about the past month.  Is this a serious side effect of Singulair and should I stop taking it? Thanks! Dot

Response:

Hello Dot, I took Singulair for about 45 days.  The doctor finally switched me to Accolate because of tingling in my arms and legs, and a general feeling of disorientation.  Accolate does not have that adverse effect on me.  One thing interesting I just noted on the information sheet with my Flovent prescription, is to report immediately to the doctor any toxic side effects, such as tingling or numbness in extremities. Best of luck, Patrice – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve noticed on this newsgroup that many Singulair users have muscle cramps as a side effect of taking that medication. But, has any noticed numbness or tingling in the arms or legs while taking Singulair.   I’ve had tingling and numbness in my left foot for about the past month.  Is this a serious side effect of Singulair and should I stop taking it? Thanks! Dot

Response:

I’ve noticed on this newsgroup that many Singulair users have muscle cramps as a side effect of taking that medication. But, has any noticed numbness or tingling in the arms or legs while taking Singulair.   I’ve had tingling and numbness in my left foot for about the past month.  Is this a serious side effect of Singulair and should I stop taking it?

Please talk to your doctor.  Tingling and numbness can have a lot of sources, some of them quite serious.  IAC, do not stop taking medications without talking to your doctor about it first. Chris Owens

Response:

Hi!    Tingling and numbness could be caused my other things, such as Myopathy or Neuropathy.  It does not necessarily mean it is coming directly from the Singulair?  Are you taking other medications?  Muscle cramps sometimes come from using steroidal medications.  Are you using any lotions or creams? Sincerely, Sandy

Response:

I’ve noticed on this newsgroup that many Singulair users have muscle cramps as a side effect of taking that medication. But, has any noticed numbness or tingling in the arms or legs while taking Singulair.   I’ve had tingling and numbness in my left foot for about the past month.  Is this a serious side effect of Singulair and should I stop taking it? Thanks! Dot

Response:

Question:

now, my doctor wants to take me off the effexor to see if it is the problem… i have already slipped backwards because of all this and new financial problems created by my ex— i am scared to death to go off the effexor.

Also, think about getting a second opinion on the drug issues from a psychiatrist. Bruce.

Response:

things have slowly deteriorating health wise for me… nothing deadly like cancer — i just feel dead.  i think my metabolism is running on empty. after a slew of testing nothing has been found yet…

((((((((((((((Donna)))))))))))))))) As I’m sure you’ve read, that isn’t one of the common side effects of effexor, but everyone is different.  Make sure you’re not taking any over-the-counter (e.g. St John’s Wort) or prescription drugs that might be interacting with the effexor. i am so disgusted.  all i know is, if this is how it feels to be 46 i’d rather be dead.

No, this is NOT how 46 feels!  There is nothing about getting older that makes us feel bad.  It’s the bumps in the road along the way that can drag us down.  But it’s always temporary.  Sooner or later we figure out what’s wrong and set it right.  Please hang on! now, my doctor wants to take me off the effexor to see if it is the problem… i have already slipped backwards because of all this and new financial problems created by my ex— i am scared to death to go off the effexor.

What dosage are you on?  It’s hard to guess because too little Effexor can worsen depression and with it fatigue, but it’s also a possible side effect of the effexor so it’s very difficult to even guess.  I’ve read that lethargy is not usually associated with effexor, so the symptoms and stress you are under sounds more like increasing the dosage might be more appropriate.  Or if the effexor is pooping out on you, switching to another AD drug like Welbutrin.. And with all that stress you’re under, don’t forget that alcohol can  worsen depression. And if you do try to stop the Effexor, remember to do it SLOWLY!!  Take several weeks at least.  The withdrawal symptoms can worsen fatigue if you don’t go slowly. i don’t want to fall down further.   i can’t, i won’t want to get back up.

Just remember that it does and WILL get better.  Not as quickly as any sufferer of depression would like, but it DOES get better.  So hang in there and keep fighting. Bruce.

Response:

I don’t blame you for not wanting to go off the Effexor. I have Addison’s Disease, and I don’t know where I’d be without Effexor. I tried Celexa before, which didn’t work at all. At this point I’m considering switching to something different, but I’m not sure if that’s a good idea. My depression has got much worse in recent months, so perhaps changing drugs is not the right way… What is your dosage? I’m on 150mg/day… Sincerely, Daniel in Tulsa

Response:

hello… and thank you for your kind words.  sorry i can’t reply to each of your messages individually, but i lost your posts when i upgraded to explorer 6 last night.  it was so nice to see so many names i recognized~ rj, bruce, ed p, cindi– she’s back  – and nice to meet jim. things have slowly deteriorating health wise for me… nothing deadly like cancer — i just feel dead.  i think my metabolism is running on empty. after a slew of testing nothing has been found yet…  i am so disgusted.  all i know is, if this is how it feels to be 46 i’d rather be dead.   now, my doctor wants to take me off the effexor to see if it is the problem… i have already slipped backwards because of all this and new financial problems created by my ex— i am scared to death to go off the effexor. i don’t want to fall down further.   i can’t, i won’t want to get back up. — ~i’m so popular ’round here i’ve forgotten my own name~ ASD Birthday Pages<http://www.geocities.com/asdbday/ April Love Pages <http://www.geocities.com/Broadway/Booth/9337/

Response:

Question:

Hello everyone!  I haven’t posted in quite awhile, but now I have questions I hope to get some help with. I use a CPAP at 6 cm, and I’ve been sleeping fine until a few weeks ago, when I started having some pre-CPAP symptoms, especially waking up once or twice a night to use the bathroom.  Around the same time I also started experiencing insomnia, which I’ve never had a problem with before. A month ago, my neurologist started me on Effexor for migraine headache prevention.  I spent a week taking 37.5 mg daily, then bumped up to 75 mg daily, taken in the morning.  The list of side effects for Effexor includes insomnia, so I’m wondering if the drug could be responsible for that, as well as for the return of the pre-CPAP symptoms.  Thoughts? Anyone here taking Effexor? It’s helping with the headaches, and I’d like to try increasing the dosage, but not if it’s going to screw up my sleep. On to another issue: in late March, my long-term live-in relationship with my boyfriend ended.  Long story, which I won’t go into in detail. I moved out (we were living in his house). The last two months have been enormously painful and stressful, but things are beginning to settle down.  I’ve been seeing a psychologist, and the Effexor has certainly helped stabilize my moods.  No more wild roller-coaster emotions. And speaking of stress, my mother is having a recurrence of some serious health problems, and as an only child, I’m feeling pretty overwhelmed and alone in dealing with that. So…. could my sleep problems be some sort of delayed reaction to the stress of the break-up, and/or my mom’s problems?  Oddly enough, I had no sleep problems at all during late March and throughout April, when the break-up was in process and I was dealing with finding a place to live and all the hassles of moving. Finally, I’ve dropped about five or 6 pounds in the last few weeks, which I attribute to loss of appetite due to stress and some stomach upset the first couple of weeks I was in the Effexor.  But I weigh 177 pounds now, and I don’t think five pounds would be enough to necessitate a pressure change.  (For the record, I started on CPAP in September 2000 at a pressure of 7 cm, and was dropped to 6 cm last November after a second sleep study.) Is there anything besides weight loss that might require a pressure change?  I’m not sure my insurance will pay for another sleep study only eight months after the last one. I’ve been thinking about trying a small amount of an OTC sleep aid for the insomnia.  Is this a really bad idea? Well, I think that’s all my questions.  :-) Thanks! Donna sleepless in Pa.

Response:

Donna Higgins <Do…@Misty.com

wrote:

My experience with Effexor was pre-CPAP. I didn’t have any problem falling asleep, but you can’t draw any conclusions from that. But you’re experiencing migraines, nocturia, and (recently) having problems coping, these are all well known side effects of OSA. Clean your filters and check for leaks. If everything’s ok, then I’d talk to your doctor about going back to your original pressure, you shouldn’t need a re-test. Most OTC sleep aids contain the same active ingredients as Benadryl, it’s a very good temporary sleep aid. Just pick up a bottle of the cheapest generic equivalent at your local drug store. (Avoid the Non-Drowsy versions, you _want_ drowsy.) Tom – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Hello everyone!  I haven’t posted in quite awhile, but now I have questions I hope to get some help with. I use a CPAP at 6 cm, and I’ve been sleeping fine until a few weeks ago, when I started having some pre-CPAP symptoms, especially waking up once or twice a night to use the bathroom.  Around the same time I also started experiencing insomnia, which I’ve never had a problem with before. A month ago, my neurologist started me on Effexor for migraine headache prevention.  I spent a week taking 37.5 mg daily, then bumped up to 75 mg daily, taken in the morning.  The list of side effects for Effexor includes insomnia, so I’m wondering if the drug could be responsible for that, as well as for the return of the pre-CPAP symptoms.  Thoughts? Anyone here taking Effexor? It’s helping with the headaches, and I’d like to try increasing the dosage, but not if it’s going to screw up my sleep. On to another issue: in late March, my long-term live-in relationship with my boyfriend ended.  Long story, which I won’t go into in detail. I moved out (we were living in his house). The last two months have been enormously painful and stressful, but things are beginning to settle down.  I’ve been seeing a psychologist, and the Effexor has certainly helped stabilize my moods.  No more wild roller-coaster emotions. And speaking of stress, my mother is having a recurrence of some serious health problems, and as an only child, I’m feeling pretty overwhelmed and alone in dealing with that. So…. could my sleep problems be some sort of delayed reaction to the stress of the break-up, and/or my mom’s problems?  Oddly enough, I had no sleep problems at all during late March and throughout April, when the break-up was in process and I was dealing with finding a place to live and all the hassles of moving. Finally, I’ve dropped about five or 6 pounds in the last few weeks, which I attribute to loss of appetite due to stress and some stomach upset the first couple of weeks I was in the Effexor.  But I weigh 177 pounds now, and I don’t think five pounds would be enough to necessitate a pressure change.  (For the record, I started on CPAP in September 2000 at a pressure of 7 cm, and was dropped to 6 cm last November after a second sleep study.) Is there anything besides weight loss that might require a pressure change?  I’m not sure my insurance will pay for another sleep study only eight months after the last one. I’ve been thinking about trying a small amount of an OTC sleep aid for the insomnia.  Is this a really bad idea? Well, I think that’s all my questions.  :-) Thanks! Donna sleepless in Pa.

Response:

On Wed, 12 Jun 2002 13:34:25 -0400, Donna Higgins <Do…@Misty.com

wrote:

Hello everyone!  I haven’t posted in quite awhile, but now I have questions I hope to get some help with. A month ago, my neurologist started me on Effexor for migraine headache prevention.  I spent a week taking 37.5 mg daily, then bumped up to 75 mg daily, taken in the morning.  The list of side effects for Effexor includes insomnia, so I’m wondering if the drug could be responsible for that, as well as for the return of the pre-CPAP symptoms.   Anyone here taking Effexor? Thoughts?

I was on it until the XR form came out… then my doctor switched me so I had fewer pills. The list of side effects for Effexor also includes somnolence.

It’s helping with the headaches, and I’d like to try increasing the dosage, but not if it’s going to screw up my sleep.

I’d say it might be worth a try… Effexor gets out of your system fairly quickly (unlike that darn Prozac).

Finally, I’ve dropped about five or 6 pounds in the last few weeks, which I attribute to loss of appetite due to stress and some stomach upset the first couple of weeks I was in the Effexor.  

Effexor also seems to have a mild anorexiant effect for some patients.

I’ve been thinking about trying a small amount of an OTC sleep aid for the insomnia.  Is this a really bad idea?

It might work, if you do it occasionally. — Found elsewhere on USENET: "yes invite more — but PLEASSSSSSSE NOT Jjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjulie"

Response:

Question:

Jews don’t  have a man made God. Arab refugees  were intentionally not absorbed into the Arab lands to which they fled, despite the vast Arab territory. Out of 100,000,000 refugees since World War II, theirs is the only refugees group in the world that has never been absorbed or integrated into their own peoples land. Israel makes up I think less than 2% of the people in Arab territory. You can tell who has God. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Zionism Only Exist Through Terrorism The Philosophies of Terrorism and Force Since Zionism relies upon a form of apartheid, it should be led to destroy its foes based upon the principle of apartheid that teaches "survival is for the best". In other words, in order to protect themselves, the superior race has authority to control, by whatever means, the lower, inferior race. This is considered to be a natural law of survival. However, the Zionists also rely on the false claim that the Jews have been persecuted throughout ages, which gives them the justification to behave as they do.  According to the Zionist perspective, the Jew has lived under continual persecution throughout time and therefore he has to raise his sword against all his foes and seek retribution. Begin believed that the Jews would not be able to live peacefully unless they proved that they were the strongest, that they have to be merciless, because being merciful is a sign of weakness and would threaten the existence of the Jews. In addition to natural philosophy and false history, Zionism has tried to achieve the establishment of a so-called "vital domain", which entails the erection of walls and easily defendable borders, or the creation of a natural extension to the State, so as to facilitate its political, economic and ideological movement. Thus, the existence of the State of Israel naturally requires the use of force, because this State is surrounded by the Arabs, who should be sent a clear message that they will be exterminated if they do not accept the Zionist ideology. The philosophy and practices of the Zionists rely on both modern ideas as well as the ancient religion of the Jews. This is because the Jewish religion, as created by the rabbis, remains as a source of inspiration for all those who adopt terrorism and glorify force. The Prophet Ezekeil says, "Do not be merciful, murder everybody, including the young, the old, the virgins, the children and the women, all of whom should be destroyed." It is also mentioned in the Talmud that, "The Jew should murder an infidel because this will make him closer to God." It also says, "Jesus Christ and his disciples are infidels". Yahuthkia says that, "This statement includes all the pagans". On the other hand, Memanoud interprets the words of God, which say "Do not kill" as meaning "God prohibits the killing of the Jews", and in addition, the Jews should "Forgive the non-Jew even he is an atheist, kills an Israeli, or if he has slept with a Jewish woman, as long as he becomes a Jew".  Hence, we have two representations of murder: the first urges the committing of murder, regardless of any ethical or moral reference, and it considers murder a permitted action, without any limitations or restrictions, being applicable for all, men, women, children and the elderly. The second representation supplements the first, because it permits the killing of non-Jews in retribution; this applies to all peoples who are not of the Jews, including Jesus, and all his followers, who are considered to be infidels. Consequently, the world is divided into two parts; the first is the realm of the Jew who stands with a raised sword, and the second is the realm which belongs to all non-Jews, who must be exterminated. This philosophy is a result of the belief that the Jew is the mirror of God on earth, and that therefore in his role as God’s reflection on earth, he is capable of distinguishing between faith and unfaith. Again, this is similar to the image of the Arian, as used in the Hitlerite philosophy of Resenburgh, which divides the world into black and white, or man and beasts, with the role of man being to clear the earth of all fierce and primitive life forms.  The Jewish theology teaches, that the universe will not be beautiful unless it is cleansed by the Jewish sword of all the foes of the Jews; hence murder has become the sole means of achieving this beauty. In searching for this beauty, the Zionists have simplified the first teachings of Zionism, so that they are close to the teachings of the church and political reality, which rely on terrorism. Under these teachings, since most of people are barbarians, the best way to rule them is through violence and terrorism, rather than through democracy or social debates. The wise men can impose absolute racial discrimination, because the world is divided into savages and the chosen few, who have the right to govern the entire world. Thus the Zionists do not simply talk about the kingdom of Jerusalem, the Promised Land, or Utopia, they believe that they have the right to rule the whole world.  As we have already discussed, the Zionists believe that this can only be achieved through murder and war. Indeed, it is argued that war is the beginning and the end, and that it is the way of the strong, while politics is for the weak. The wise men of Zion found their beliefs on history and human experience-they believe that people were originally ruled by brutal, blind force and later by law, which they see as being one and the same thing. Zionism expresses three facts: first, that brutality is an innate part of human nature; secondly, Zionism accepts the brutal side of human history and does not recognize the enlightenment, which emphasizes the right of all peoples to live peacefully. It does not even approach the humanitarian ideas of Russell, Albert Einstein, and Karl Marx, instead it refers to the pre-human phase or the "human cattle" society, where man was ruled solely by instinct, far away from the rational development phases of humanity. Thus Zionism adopts the use of blind instinct and refers to the man of the primitive era, where he was ruled by instinct, while it disregards the development of human societies, rationally, ethically and culturally; and thirdly, because Zionism disregards the development of the human society, it equates modern law with the natural laws of brutal force, thus completing its circle of darkness.  Zionism epitomizes the use of war instead of politics, persecution instead of debate, instinct instead of reason, the old instead of the new, and the Jews instead of all others. As they have said, "We are the source of terrorism everywhere, and all people belonging to various origins and faiths are keen on serving our goals." They state that their policy is one of force and double-dealing because they can see that success can be achieved by force, especially force which is necessary for the politician who must depend upon his genius, violence and cunning. Zionism does not only adopt the use of terrorism, war and force, it also disdains all that is considered to be humane and ethical, thus it glorifies double-dealing and cunning, and considers them innate qualities for the genius. Such a philosophy binds humanity with evil, sheds blood and denies the human standards, which confirms the unity of human society, the development of reason and the promotion of the human culture. This is because racialism denies humanity, sheds blood, monopolizes the human qualities, and generally does not recognize humanity, except as an inferior standard. Ben Gurion rationalized and justified terrorism when he said that the rifle was invented to kill others and that the soldier is the means to carry this out, and that this is the case just as water is for drinking and air is for breathing. Furthermore, that "Armed and powerful people are to be considered as a danger against themselves as well as others, especially when they are more powerful than the others, consequently we should exterminate them. This is the mission of the Hagana members who must always be merciless, bearing in mind that man has never been an angel, but consists merely of flesh and blood, that he may misuse his powers unless he is always under control." Ben Gurion has revived the teachings of Zion’s wise men, and he has rationalized these teachings, proposing that the armed man is a natural phenomenon that develops just as all other natural phenomena do. He teaches that arms are a natural part of the universe, and that the fighter grows as naturally as the plants; this is an idea that is similar in many ways to the belief in the law of the jungle. On another level, he discusses the political economy of force, which, he argues, will turn upon its creator as well as society unless it is channelled through carefully chosen methods, such as terrorism. He proposes that such a policy will achieve balance in the society which otherwise risks being destroyed. This is similar to the power of sexual energy, which can cause negative and destructive psychiatric symptoms, unless it is released. Consequently, in order to preserve both the body and soul, the use of violence is deemed to be a necessity. Respectively, the means to control this energy is through a ’superpower’, which does not suppress violence but rather systematically unleashes it. Thus, according to Ben Gurion, the State is the instrument to control and channel violence to the right path, that, although violence should be regulated, it is essential to the existence of the State.  This philosophy considers violence to be a natural instinct and murder a natural necessity, that man cannot achieve a healthy balance unless he releases his destructive

… read more »

Response:

Zionism Only Exist Through Terrorism

Garbage deleted. Why is it that the people using Muslim names in here spout the most insane anti-Jewish trash I have ever had the displeasure to read? If someone was to speak like this in a free country, we’d consider them a bit touched in the head.

Response:

SO, BUBU Why are muslems more entitled to a state of their own thatn would be others? How do arabs live unhindered in Israel? DO tell the answers to these questions o great one

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Zionism Only Exist Through Terrorism The Philosophies of Terrorism and Force Since Zionism relies upon a form of apartheid, it should be led to destroy its foes based upon the principle of apartheid that teaches "survival is for the best". In other words, in order to protect themselves, the superior race has authority to control, by whatever means, the lower, inferior race. This is considered to be a natural law of survival. However, the Zionists also rely on the false claim that the Jews have been persecuted throughout ages, which gives them the justification to behave as they do.  According to the Zionist perspective, the Jew has lived under continual persecution throughout time and therefore he has to raise his sword against all his foes and seek retribution. Begin believed that the Jews would not be able to live peacefully unless they proved that they were the strongest, that they have to be merciless, because being merciful is a sign of weakness and would threaten the existence of the Jews. In addition to natural philosophy and false history, Zionism has tried to achieve the establishment of a so-called "vital domain", which entails the erection of walls and easily defendable borders, or the creation of a natural extension to the State, so as to facilitate its political, economic and ideological movement. Thus, the existence of the State of Israel naturally requires the use of force, because this State is surrounded by the Arabs, who should be sent a clear message that they will be exterminated if they do not accept the Zionist ideology. The philosophy and practices of the Zionists rely on both modern ideas as well as the ancient religion of the Jews. This is because the Jewish religion, as created by the rabbis, remains as a source of inspiration for all those who adopt terrorism and glorify force. The Prophet Ezekeil says, "Do not be merciful, murder everybody, including the young, the old, the virgins, the children and the women, all of whom should be destroyed." It is also mentioned in the Talmud that, "The Jew should murder an infidel because this will make him closer to God." It also says, "Jesus Christ and his disciples are infidels". Yahuthkia says that, "This statement includes all the pagans". On the other hand, Memanoud interprets the words of God, which say "Do not kill" as meaning "God prohibits the killing of the Jews", and in addition, the Jews should "Forgive the non-Jew even he is an atheist, kills an Israeli, or if he has slept with a Jewish woman, as long as he becomes a Jew".  Hence, we have two representations of murder: the first urges the committing of murder, regardless of any ethical or moral reference, and it considers murder a permitted action, without any limitations or restrictions, being applicable for all, men, women, children and the elderly. The second representation supplements the first, because it permits the killing of non-Jews in retribution; this applies to all peoples who are not of the Jews, including Jesus, and all his followers, who are considered to be infidels. Consequently, the world is divided into two parts; the first is the realm of the Jew who stands with a raised sword, and the second is the realm which belongs to all non-Jews, who must be exterminated. This philosophy is a result of the belief that the Jew is the mirror of God on earth, and that therefore in his role as God’s reflection on earth, he is capable of distinguishing between faith and unfaith. Again, this is similar to the image of the Arian, as used in the Hitlerite philosophy of Resenburgh, which divides the world into black and white, or man and beasts, with the role of man being to clear the earth of all fierce and primitive life forms.  The Jewish theology teaches, that the universe will not be beautiful unless it is cleansed by the Jewish sword of all the foes of the Jews; hence murder has become the sole means of achieving this beauty. In searching for this beauty, the Zionists have simplified the first teachings of Zionism, so that they are close to the teachings of the church and political reality, which rely on terrorism. Under these teachings, since most of people are barbarians, the best way to rule them is through violence and terrorism, rather than through democracy or social debates. The wise men can impose absolute racial discrimination, because the world is divided into savages and the chosen few, who have the right to govern the entire world. Thus the Zionists do not simply talk about the kingdom of Jerusalem, the Promised Land, or Utopia, they believe that they have the right to rule the whole world.  As we have already discussed, the Zionists believe that this can only be achieved through murder and war. Indeed, it is argued that war is the beginning and the end, and that it is the way of the strong, while politics is for the weak. The wise men of Zion found their beliefs on history and human experience-they believe that people were originally ruled by brutal, blind force and later by law, which they see as being one and the same thing. Zionism expresses three facts: first, that brutality is an innate part of human nature; secondly, Zionism accepts the brutal side of human history and does not recognize the enlightenment, which emphasizes the right of all peoples to live peacefully. It does not even approach the humanitarian ideas of Russell, Albert Einstein, and Karl Marx, instead it refers to the pre-human phase or the "human cattle" society, where man was ruled solely by instinct, far away from the rational development phases of humanity. Thus Zionism adopts the use of blind instinct and refers to the man of the primitive era, where he was ruled by instinct, while it disregards the development of human societies, rationally, ethically and culturally; and thirdly, because Zionism disregards the development of the human society, it equates modern law with the natural laws of brutal force, thus completing its circle of darkness.  Zionism epitomizes the use of war instead of politics, persecution instead of debate, instinct instead of reason, the old instead of the new, and the Jews instead of all others. As they have said, "We are the source of terrorism everywhere, and all people belonging to various origins and faiths are keen on serving our goals." They state that their policy is one of force and double-dealing because they can see that success can be achieved by force, especially force which is necessary for the politician who must depend upon his genius, violence and cunning. Zionism does not only adopt the use of terrorism, war and force, it also disdains all that is considered to be humane and ethical, thus it glorifies double-dealing and cunning, and considers them innate qualities for the genius. Such a philosophy binds humanity with evil, sheds blood and denies the human standards, which confirms the unity of human society, the development of reason and the promotion of the human culture. This is because racialism denies humanity, sheds blood, monopolizes the human qualities, and generally does not recognize humanity, except as an inferior standard. Ben Gurion rationalized and justified terrorism when he said that the rifle was invented to kill others and that the soldier is the means to carry this out, and that this is the case just as water is for drinking and air is for breathing. Furthermore, that "Armed and powerful people are to be considered as a danger against themselves as well as others, especially when they are more powerful than the others, consequently we should exterminate them. This is the mission of the Hagana members who must always be merciless, bearing in mind that man has never been an angel, but consists merely of flesh and blood, that he may misuse his powers unless he is always under control." Ben Gurion has revived the teachings of Zion’s wise men, and he has rationalized these teachings, proposing that the armed man is a natural phenomenon that develops just as all other natural phenomena do. He teaches that arms are a natural part of the universe, and that the fighter grows as naturally as the plants; this is an idea that is similar in many ways to the belief in the law of the jungle. On another level, he discusses the political economy of force, which, he argues, will turn upon its creator as well as society unless it is channelled through carefully chosen methods, such as terrorism. He proposes that such a policy will achieve balance in the society which otherwise risks being destroyed. This is similar to the power of sexual energy, which can cause negative and destructive psychiatric symptoms, unless it is released. Consequently, in order to preserve both the body and soul, the use of violence is deemed to be a necessity. Respectively, the means to control this energy is through a ’superpower’, which does not suppress violence but rather systematically unleashes it. Thus, according to Ben Gurion, the State is the instrument to control and channel violence to the right path, that, although violence should be regulated, it is essential to the existence of the State.  This philosophy considers violence to be a natural instinct and murder a natural necessity, that man cannot achieve a healthy balance unless he releases his destructive potential through the act of killing. It is interesting to note here that Ben Gurion has ignored the possibility of releasing this latent

… read more »

Response:

Zionism Only Exist Through Terrorism The Philosophies of Terrorism and Force   Since Zionism relies upon a form of apartheid, it should be led to destroy its foes based upon the principle of apartheid that teaches "survival is for the best". In other words, in order to protect themselves, the superior race has authority to control, by whatever means, the lower, inferior race. This is considered to be a natural law of survival. However, the Zionists also rely on the false claim that the Jews have been persecuted throughout ages, which gives them the justification to behave as they do.  According to the Zionist perspective, the Jew has lived under continual persecution throughout time and therefore he has to raise his sword against all his foes and seek retribution. Begin believed that the Jews would not be able to live peacefully unless they proved that they were the strongest, that they have to be merciless, because being merciful is a sign of weakness and would threaten the existence of the Jews. In addition to natural philosophy and false history, Zionism has tried to achieve the establishment of a so-called "vital domain", which entails the erection of walls and easily defendable borders, or the creation of a natural extension to the State, so as to facilitate its political, economic and ideological movement. Thus, the existence of the State of Israel naturally requires the use of force, because this State is surrounded by the Arabs, who should be sent a clear message that they will be exterminated if they do not accept the Zionist ideology. The philosophy and practices of the Zionists rely on both modern ideas as well as the ancient religion of the Jews. This is because the Jewish religion, as created by the rabbis, remains as a source of inspiration for all those who adopt terrorism and glorify force. The Prophet Ezekeil says, "Do not be merciful, murder everybody, including the young, the old, the virgins, the children and the women, all of whom should be destroyed." It is also mentioned in the Talmud that, "The Jew should murder an infidel because this will make him closer to God." It also says, "Jesus Christ and his disciples are infidels". Yahuthkia says that, "This statement includes all the pagans". On the other hand, Memanoud interprets the words of God, which say "Do not kill" as meaning "God prohibits the killing of the Jews", and in addition, the Jews should "Forgive the non-Jew even he is an atheist, kills an Israeli, or if he has slept with a Jewish woman, as long as he becomes a Jew".  Hence, we have two representations of murder: the first urges the committing of murder, regardless of any ethical or moral reference, and it considers murder a permitted action, without any limitations or restrictions, being applicable for all, men, women, children and the elderly. The second representation supplements the first, because it permits the killing of non-Jews in retribution; this applies to all peoples who are not of the Jews, including Jesus, and all his followers, who are considered to be infidels. Consequently, the world is divided into two parts; the first is the realm of the Jew who stands with a raised sword, and the second is the realm which belongs to all non-Jews, who must be exterminated. This philosophy is a result of the belief that the Jew is the mirror of God on earth, and that therefore in his role as God’s reflection on earth, he is capable of distinguishing between faith and unfaith. Again, this is similar to the image of the Arian, as used in the Hitlerite philosophy of Resenburgh, which divides the world into black and white, or man and beasts, with the role of man being to clear the earth of all fierce and primitive life forms.  The Jewish theology teaches, that the universe will not be beautiful unless it is cleansed by the Jewish sword of all the foes of the Jews; hence murder has become the sole means of achieving this beauty. In searching for this beauty, the Zionists have simplified the first teachings of Zionism, so that they are close to the teachings of the church and political reality, which rely on terrorism. Under these teachings, since most of people are barbarians, the best way to rule them is through violence and terrorism, rather than through democracy or social debates. The wise men can impose absolute racial discrimination, because the world is divided into savages and the chosen few, who have the right to govern the entire world. Thus the Zionists do not simply talk about the kingdom of Jerusalem, the Promised Land, or Utopia, they believe that they have the right to rule the whole world.  As we have already discussed, the Zionists believe that this can only be achieved through murder and war. Indeed, it is argued that war is the beginning and the end, and that it is the way of the strong, while politics is for the weak. The wise men of Zion found their beliefs on history and human experience-they believe that people were originally ruled by brutal, blind force and later by law, which they see as being one and the same thing. Zionism expresses three facts: first, that brutality is an innate part of human nature; secondly, Zionism accepts the brutal side of human history and does not recognize the enlightenment, which emphasizes the right of all peoples to live peacefully. It does not even approach the humanitarian ideas of Russell, Albert Einstein, and Karl Marx, instead it refers to the pre-human phase or the "human cattle" society, where man was ruled solely by instinct, far away from the rational development phases of humanity. Thus Zionism adopts the use of blind instinct and refers to the man of the primitive era, where he was ruled by instinct, while it disregards the development of human societies, rationally, ethically and culturally; and thirdly, because Zionism disregards the development of the human society, it equates modern law with the natural laws of brutal force, thus completing its circle of darkness.  Zionism epitomizes the use of war instead of politics, persecution instead of debate, instinct instead of reason, the old instead of the new, and the Jews instead of all others. As they have said, "We are the source of terrorism everywhere, and all people belonging to various origins and faiths are keen on serving our goals." They state that their policy is one of force and double-dealing because they can see that success can be achieved by force, especially force which is necessary for the politician who must depend upon his genius, violence and cunning. Zionism does not only adopt the use of terrorism, war and force, it also disdains all that is considered to be humane and ethical, thus it glorifies double-dealing and cunning, and considers them innate qualities for the genius. Such a philosophy binds humanity with evil, sheds blood and denies the human standards, which confirms the unity of human society, the development of reason and the promotion of the human culture. This is because racialism denies humanity, sheds blood, monopolizes the human qualities, and generally does not recognize humanity, except as an inferior standard. Ben Gurion rationalized and justified terrorism when he said that the rifle was invented to kill others and that the soldier is the means to carry this out, and that this is the case just as water is for drinking and air is for breathing. Furthermore, that "Armed and powerful people are to be considered as a danger against themselves as well as others, especially when they are more powerful than the others, consequently we should exterminate them. This is the mission of the Hagana members who must always be merciless, bearing in mind that man has never been an angel, but consists merely of flesh and blood, that he may misuse his powers unless he is always under control." Ben Gurion has revived the teachings of Zion’s wise men, and he has rationalized these teachings, proposing that the armed man is a natural phenomenon that develops just as all other natural phenomena do. He teaches that arms are a natural part of the universe, and that the fighter grows as naturally as the plants; this is an idea that is similar in many ways to the belief in the law of the jungle. On another level, he discusses the political economy of force, which, he argues, will turn upon its creator as well as society unless it is channelled through carefully chosen methods, such as terrorism. He proposes that such a policy will achieve balance in the society which otherwise risks being destroyed. This is similar to the power of sexual energy, which can cause negative and destructive psychiatric symptoms, unless it is released. Consequently, in order to preserve both the body and soul, the use of violence is deemed to be a necessity. Respectively, the means to control this energy is through a ’superpower’, which does not suppress violence but rather systematically unleashes it. Thus, according to Ben Gurion, the State is the instrument to control and channel violence to the right path, that, although violence should be regulated, it is essential to the existence of the State.  This philosophy considers violence to be a natural instinct and murder a natural necessity, that man cannot achieve a healthy balance unless he releases his destructive potential through the act of killing. It is interesting to note here that Ben Gurion has ignored the possibility of releasing this latent energy through other means, such as sports, arts and community work. The reasoning here is flawed because it does not give any investigation into other possibilities, rather it ignores them because they do not suit the desired objective, the supremacy of the Jews and the annihilation of all other races. Despite this flawed philosophy, the Zionist ideology is able to permeate daily life with continual violence, soldiers and the importance of the State. Hagana itself is a terrorist organization based on its own political and economic principles. A predicament for Zionism … read more »

Response:

Question:

jBeth,  are you talking about Luvox? shell

Response:

Brand name Faverin in the UK. Heard it’s good for OCD and depression.

Hi Beth, Fluvoxamine is similar to Prozac in many ways and is used for depression and OCD (an aside to Shell — yes, it’s Luvox in the USA). Response to antideps varies enormously from person to person, and what works for one may not work for another; unfortunately, psychiatric medicine is still rather hit and miss, and trial-and-error is usually the only way to find the right med for you. There are some major risks of interactions with this drug, including terfenadine and astemizole (antihistamines), cisapride ("propulsid", a motility stimulant), warfarin, theophylline, certain benzodiazepines and phenytoin. Or what about sertraline (Lustral/Zoloft)?

That has a slightly broader collection of possible side effects than some of the other SSRIs, though much less risk of drug interactions than fluvoxamine, and has been known to work in some people who have had only limited success with other antideps. Curiously, in the UK it’s not listed as a treatment for OCD, but only depression, while clinical trial data indicates that it *is* effective in OCD too. Some people who don’t get a good result from SSRIs have fared better with venlafaxine (Effexor) or with the SNRI reboxetine (Edronax), though again neither of these is listed as appropriate for treatment of OCD. Hope this info helps, and good luck! love from Julie.

Response:

x-no-arcive: yes                 i tried luvox (generic name – fluvoxamine) for my OCD. i found effexor to work much better. hope some medication works for you soon.

Response:

Brand name Faverin in the UK. Heard it’s good for OCD and depression. Or what about sertraline (Lustral/Zoloft)? Am going back on meds and don’t know whether Paxil (Seroxat) is worth trying (again!) BEth — ("That I would be good if I got and stayed sick   That I would be good even if I gained ten pounds" –  Alanis Morissette)

Response:

Question:

hello all….I have receantly been diagnosed with PD… this is a scary thing!!!!!!!     I have been reading this NG for a week or so and seem to relate to many of you. I am studing up on this PD thing and "trying to stay vertical" I am on Zoloft and Xanax as needed. Just saying "Hello I have a problem" is enough to flip me out! Be gentle with me K? J

No problem J. Welcome to ASAP. Most of us are here because we have the same problem you do. It’s really difficult inthe beginning,but it does get better. Curious, do you have depression to? If not, why the Zoloft? Xanax works great for panic without any additional meds. And, with lots less )or no) side effects. Just something you might want to talk to your doc about. Your best bet is to talk topeople who are positive and supportive here. Ignore the flames and trolls. They come and go. Don’t let them get to you. Get the weekly FAQ and also visit lots of the great web sites that are out there. Like Arthur Anderon’s website! It’s one of the best. Educating yourself about this disorder is one of the best things you can do! Feel free to e-mail me if you’d like. Regards, Jen

Response:

hello all….I have receantly been diagnosed with PD… this is a scary thing!!!!!!!     I have been reading this NG for a week or so and seem to relate to many of you. I am studing up on this PD thing and "trying to stay vertical" I am on Zoloft and Xanax as needed. Just saying "Hello I have a problem" is enough to flip me out! Be gentle with me K? J

Response:

HI J!!! Sorry to hear you have become "One of us", but glad you found this NG all the same! Jen really said it best as far as educating yourself about panic/anxiety… The best thing you could do, at least for me anyway, is to read as much as you can. I found what was the scariest of all was the not knowing, the lack of understanding as to what was exactly a panic attack meant, what the terms were, etc. Once I understood what was taking place during an attack, I was able to then try and find ways to cope with them. Of course, I am still searching for ways, but…. I am on the Zoloft also… How are you doing with that? I bet at times you may feel a little lost…Dont get down! You will survive! Oh, and for what its worth.. Know the best thing about panic sufferers? They are probably the most understanding, caring, compassionate folk you will ever come across… What you were seeing, like Jen said, is the trouble makers…. Wishing you the best!! — Miriam     (These opinions are mine and mine alone… YMMV) Energizer bunny arrested, charged with battery. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – hello all….I have receantly been diagnosed with PD… this is a scary thing!!!!!!!     I have been reading this NG for a week or so and seem to relate to many of you. I am studing up on this PD thing and "trying to stay vertical" I am on Zoloft and Xanax as needed. Just saying "Hello I have a problem" is enough to flip me out! Be gentle with me K? J

Response:

hello all….I have receantly been diagnosed with PD… this is a scary thing!!!!!!!     I have been reading this NG for a week or so and seem to relate to many of you. I am studing up on this PD thing and "trying to stay vertical" I am on Zoloft and Xanax as needed. Just saying "Hello I have a problem" is enough to flip me out! Be gentle with me K?

Hi, J – welcome to ASAP Glad to hear that you’re getting proper treatment and I hope you find this NG the valuable resource that so many of us have. — Gary Cooper

Response:

JSmittie schreef: hello all….I have receantly been diagnosed with PD… this is a scary thing!!!!!!!     I have been reading this NG for a week or so and seem to relate to many of you. I am studing up on this PD thing and "trying to stay vertical" I am on Zoloft and Xanax as needed. Just saying "Hello I have a problem" is enough to flip me out! Be gentle with me K? J

Hi J! Don’t worry. You’ll find much knowledge and support here. It’s a shame that new people should have to worry about posting here these days. The only reason why anybody will not be gentle with someone else here is when this someone else is consciously posting desinformation or writing insulting posts just to disrupt the newsgroup. These people are called *trolls* in Internet lingo and they’re to be found in every newsgroup on Usenet. Don’t worry about them. How long have you been on Zoloft? Does it work for you? It’s often a good idea to take a benzo like Xanax in at least the initial stages of a AD like Zoloft, to let your body adjust itself to it. Hope that you will post more often! Philip

Response:

Hi there!  I’ve only been here a little over 2 months, but some of the folks have been here literally for years.  So, there’s quite a lot of accumulated wisdom that has been of great help to me. I’m glad to have you here, "fellow newbie".  Just ignore the flame threads, delete the whole thread if it bothers you.  You’ll do fine. E. Brent Price

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -hello all….I have receantly been diagnosed with PD… this is a scary thing!!!!!!!     I have been reading this NG for a week or so and seem to relate to many of you. I am studing up on this PD thing and "trying to stay vertical" I am on Zoloft and Xanax as needed. Just saying "Hello I have a problem" is enough to flip me out! Be gentle with me K? J

Response:

Hi J, I think the more you find out about PD the less you will be afraid…now you have a name for what you have been feeling, when I was diagnosed this summer and had the "names" spelled out for me, I felt a little "nuts", but now I DON’T feel that way. This isn’t some "head thing". For me trying to cope with it on my own was barely tolerable and now I am on the way to developing more appropriate methods of dealing with it. Keep reading and coming to this ng, there’s a lot of good info and support to be found here. Michelle says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -hello all….I have receantly been diagnosed with PD… this is a scary thing!!!!!!!     I have been reading this NG for a week or so and seem to relate to many of you. I am studing up on this PD thing and "trying to stay vertical" I am on Zoloft and Xanax as needed. Just saying "Hello I have a problem" is enough to flip me out! Be gentle with me K? J

Response:

Question:

After a couple wrestless nights, a few fights with my concience, and an exchange of words with a few good detectives, I’ve decided to appologize for being untruthfull and misleading. In a recent post I signed my name as Dr. Robert T. Kralik MD. The truth is, I don’t even have my first degree. But I swear by the good grace of God, someday I will have my Ph.D in mental health, and I will be truely helpfull to my community. I’ve confessed, and I’m sorry, but now it’s up to you to find it in your heart to forgive me. Signed, plain old rob kralik

Hi Rob, It took a lot of courage to post the above.  Sure you are forgiven. You have a talent for writing and sometimes we who are depressed help each other almost as much as our docs help us. Hang in there. J9 "The future is ‘NOW’" Warner Wolf…Imus In The Morning (IITM)

Response:

Signed, plain old rob kralik

Just because you’re not a doctor does not mean you don’t deserve to capitalize on what you have already going for you. try writing "Robert Kralik"  and stand back and take a look at it. Looks good to me.

Response:

Found a fellow named GOSH! posted this to the ASAD NG, yet it is missing here. Good possibility it was cancelled, so I will post it here for him. I think it’s a good and worthwile post.

  Sure Rob, I hold no grudge, and I do wish you a load of luck cause   you’l need it. Your appology a response to the tiger twisting your scrotum   till your balls popped out may help your memory.   Balls or not, many  won’t forget your name for a long time. Putting PhD after it down   the road will evoke many recalls, or restimulations, which you will learn   about down that same road. What’s the real fix Robert?  I don’t know,   but you sure got yourself into a genuine "Fix".   Sure glad for Willie Bell’s stories,  and Mom reading Uncle Rhemus   to me and that I never grabbed that tar baby, BTW Rob, dreams are our greatest friends, and motivators. We must remember what "Only In your dreams" means,  (Discriminate) and learn how to make the good ones come "TRUE." Good Luck with your studies, your intellect, appropriately harnessed, will carry you far GOSH!   GOSH!     After a couple wrestless nights, a few fights with my concience,   and     an     exchange of words with a few good detectives, I’ve decided to     appologize     for being untruthfull and misleading. In a recent post I signed my     name     as Dr. Robert T. Kralik MD. The truth is, I don’t even have my   first     degree. But I swear by the good grace of God, someday I will have   my     Ph.D in     mental health, and I will be truely helpfull to my community. I’ve     confessed, and I’m sorry, but now it’s up to you to find it in   your     heart     to forgive me.     Signed, plain old rob kralik – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – After a couple wrestless nights, a few fights with my concience, and an exchange of words with a few good detectives, I’ve decided to appologize for being untruthfull and misleading. In a recent post I signed my name as Dr. Robert T. Kralik MD. The truth is, I don’t even have my first degree. But I swear by the good grace of God, someday I will have my Ph.D in mental health, and I will be truely helpfull to my community. I’ve confessed, and I’m sorry, but now it’s up to you to find it in your heart to forgive me. Signed, plain old rob kralik

Response:

whoa…wait a sec….the fact that one would propagate such untruths in the first place that robert may have a disturbance of character! and he wants a phd in mental health?….. — Jon Mankowski, L.C.S.W. Far Point Rural Behavioral Health Northern California FAX- 916-474-1693 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – After a couple wrestless nights, a few fights with my concience, and an exchange of words with a few good detectives, I’ve decided to appologize for being untruthfull and misleading. In a recent post I signed my name as Dr. Robert T. Kralik MD. The truth is, I don’t even have my first degree. But I swear by the good grace of God, someday I will have my Ph.D in mental health, and I will be truely helpfull to my community. I’ve confessed, and I’m sorry, but now it’s up to you to find it in your heart to forgive me. That’s "restless", "conscience", "truly" . You’ve got the handwriting part down already. I forsee a great future for you in politics… —    Alex Colvin

Response:

After a couple wrestless nights, a few fights with my concience, and an exchange of words with a few good detectives, I’ve decided to appologize for being untruthfull and misleading. In a recent post I signed my name as Dr. Robert T. Kralik MD. The truth is, I don’t even have my first degree. But I swear by the good grace of God, someday I will have my Ph.D in mental health, and I will be truely helpfull to my community. I’ve confessed, and I’m sorry, but now it’s up to you to find it in your heart to forgive me.

That’s "restless", "conscience", "truly" . You’ve got the handwriting part down already. I forsee a great future for you in politics… —         Alex Colvin

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – After a couple wrestless nights, a few fights with my concience, and an exchange of words with a few good detectives, I’ve decided to appologize for being untruthfull and misleading. In a recent post I signed my name as Dr. Robert T. Kralik MD. The truth is, I don’t even have my first degree. But I swear by the good grace of God, someday I will have my Ph.D in mental health, and I will be truely helpfull to my community. I’ve confessed, and I’m sorry, but now it’s up to you to find it in your heart to forgive me. Signed, plain old rob kralikDoes this mean my Rx is no good?

Response:

whoa…wait a sec….the fact that one would propagate such untruths in the first place that robert may have a disturbance of character! and he wants a phd in mental health?…..

I have to agree that although I bear no grudge against Robert for making a mistake and then apologizing for it, it is essential that he figure out what allowed him to do it in the first place and resolve that problem BEFORE getting into a position where people need to trust him with, in some cases, their lives. In other words, he’s OK by me, but in his present condition I don’t think he’s a safe risk as a mental health professional.  Gotta solve his own problems FIRST. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text — Jon Mankowski, L.C.S.W. Far Point Rural Behavioral Health Northern California FAX- 916-474-1693 After a couple wrestless nights, a few fights with my concience, and an exchange of words with a few good detectives, I’ve decided to appologize for being untruthfull and misleading. In a recent post I signed my name as Dr. Robert T. Kralik MD. The truth is, I don’t even have my first degree. But I swear by the good grace of God, someday I will have my Ph.D in mental health, and I will be truely helpfull to my community. I’ve confessed, and I’m sorry, but now it’s up to you to find it in your heart to forgive me. That’s "restless", "conscience", "truly" . You’ve got the handwriting part down already. I forsee a great future for you in politics… —        Alex Colvin

Don Stauffer | Email is welcome except solicitation, which | | will be forwarded to domain Administrators. |

Response:

This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit         I think I need to agree with Jon here.  I think it is commendable that Rob was able to come forward and confess his mistake and his goals and aspirations for an advanced degree in mental health are equally commendable.  However, as many hinted here, people are extremely vulnerable and often naive in many ways.  A false posting can sometimes be detrimental to the health of an individual if posted by someone claiming a certain level of expertise and responsibility.  This is not to say that anyone with the title "doctor" is without fault.  Certainly, we all know this to be the contrary.  Just as it is important to receive feedback and criticism from a group or individual, it is equally important to be able to understand and identify the source of such feedback.  Specific feedback from a doctor or a proclaimed "doctor" should be weighed from that perspective, while that from a fellow patient should also be weighed.  Each is with tremendous merits and drawbacks.           To Rob:  apology accepted and welcome.  good luck in your studies, I am sure that you will do well.  Remember, that one’s degree and station in life holds far more connotations and responsibility than simply a set of initials.  As much as the letters MD  or Ph.D. may seem to be a statement of status and accomplishment, they are laden with heavy responsibility as well and not to be taken lightly. Respectfully, Michael J. Higgins, MD  (effective May 1997) http://www.erols.com/drhiggy Joint Capital Area Family Practice-Psychiatry Residency Program After a couple wrestless nights, a few fights with my concience, and an exchange of words with a few good detectives, I’ve decided to appologize for being untruthfull and misleading. In a recent post I signed my name as Dr. Robert T. Kralik MD. The truth is, I don’t even have my first degree. But I swear by the good grace of God, someday I will have my Ph.D in mental health, and I will be truely helpfull to my community. I’ve confessed, and I’m sorry, but now it’s up to you to find it in your heart to forgive me. Signed, plain old rob kralik

Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html<head</head<BODY bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF"<p<font size=3D2 = color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Rockwell"&#009;I think I need to agree with = Jon here. &nbsp;I think it is commendable that Rob was able to come = forward and confess his mistake and his goals and aspirations for an = advanced degree in mental health are equally commendable. &nbsp;However, = as many hinted here, people are extremely vulnerable and often naive in = many ways. &nbsp;A false posting can sometimes be detrimental to the = health of an individual if posted by someone claiming a certain level of = expertise and responsibility. &nbsp;This is not to say that anyone with = the title &quot;doctor&quot; is without fault. &nbsp;Certainly, we all = know this to be the contrary. &nbsp;Just as it is important to receive = feedback and criticism from a group or individual, it is equally = important to be able to understand and identify the source of such = feedback. &nbsp;Specific feedback from a doctor or a proclaimed = &quot;doctor&quot; should be weighed from that perspective, while that = from a fellow patient should also be weighed. &nbsp;Each is with = tremendous merits and drawbacks. &nbsp;<br<br&#009;To Rob: = &nbsp;apology accepted and welcome. &nbsp;good luck in your studies, I = am sure that you will do well. &nbsp;Remember, that one’s degree and = station in life holds far more connotations and responsibility than = simply a set of initials. &nbsp;As much as the letters MD &nbsp;or Ph.D. = may seem to be a statement of status and accomplishment, they are laden = with heavy responsibility as well and not to be taken = lightly.<br<brRespectfully,<br<brMichael J. Higgins, MD = &nbsp;(effective May = Capital Area Family Practice-Psychiatry Residency = Program<br<br<br<br<br<brRobert Kralik &lt;<font = color=3D"#000000"&gt; wrote in article &lt;<font = net.mb.ca</u<font color=3D"#000000"&gt;…<br&gt; <br&gt; After a = couple wrestless nights, a few fights with my concience, and an <br&gt; = exchange of words with a few good detectives, I’ve decided to appologize = <br&gt; for being untruthfull and misleading. In a recent post I signed = my name <br&gt; as Dr. Robert T. Kralik MD. The truth is, I don’t even = have my first <br&gt; degree. But I swear by the good grace of God, = someday I will have my Ph.D in <br&gt; mental health, and I will be = truely helpfull to my community. I’ve <br&gt; confessed, and I’m sorry, = but now it’s up to you to find it in your heart <br&gt; to forgive = me.<br&gt; Signed, plain old rob kralik<br&gt; </p </font</font</font</font</font</body</html

Response:

Dear Stewart and a few others:   I’m rather surprised that Jon is the only one who has expressed anger over this. Or at least *seems* to be the only one.

Sorry.  I did not take Jon to task for being angry with Robert (yikes, you really gotta follow this thread to understand this post).  I took Jon to task for suggesting that someone with a clinical psychological problem would not make a good mental health professional.  (You might want to read "Welcome to my country", a really good easy to read book that helps to shorten the distance between "us" and "them".)   I think I was probably as angry with Robert as Jon was.  I actually sent a copy of an earlier (IMHO) obnoxious post of Robert’s to his ISP. I posted a copy of what I had done to the newsgroup (alt.support.depression) and someone there e-mailed me some personal information/speculation about Robert.  I told Robert in e-mail that I was seriously thinking of sending a copy of his impersonation of an MD to his ISP.  I asked him if he was an MD, an MD with a mood disorder, or perhaps just someone with a mood disorder.  I was in no hurry.  He e-mailed me an appology and posted one. He told me a bit about his personal life.  *I* felt that was enough to invite him to post more about himself to alt.support.depression.   I did NOT say that I was not angry with his posts, nor did I mean to suggest it.  I just took one thing at a time.  Sorry I didn’t give you more background with my last posts. Sincerely Stewart — The Metaphor Man

Response:

Relax, old buddy. I’m writing to you from alt.support.attn-deficit.  Normally I wold trim my header, but I don’t know what is your "home base" NG. Maybe what’s-his-name’s apology was sincere, maybe it wasn’t.  Maybe he is sincere today and maybe tomorrow will be different.  Your skepticism was a useful expression of what hundreds, maybe thousands, of others probably thought, but didn’t post.   A number of others apparently had different reactions. Golly.  Just sorta like real life to be so ambiguous.  You seem to be a stand-up type of guy.  Don’t go wishy-washy now. "Often wrong, but never in doubt," is my motto. As far as I’m concerned, you are more than welcome to express any of your opinions in alt.support.attn-deficit whenever you wish.  Even, or especially, the ones with which I may not agree.  As a group, however, we tend to not be respecters of credentials and I have observed a tendency to mock "authority". Makes for a lively discussion. In other words, I forgive you for not forgiving what’s-his-name, and proceed at your own risk Mr. L.C.S.W. Best wishes, Tom Fox – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -lookie here… a lot of folks on this list are vulnerable. Vulnerable to grasping at nearly anyhing to allieviate their pain. What i saw on this list were people too quick to forgive an imposter This bothered me so i made a remark regarding his character. Look closely at his mea culpa. i was not "throwing stones" at the fellow. yet i did not want to see him get off the hook so easily. Afterall, he was looking outside himself for forgiveness when in fact he appears to have a lot of his own character searching to do. — Jon Mankowski, L.C.S.W. Far Point Rural Behavioral Health Northern California FAX- 916-474-1693 Oh, dear, whoa…wait a sec….the fact that one would propagate such untruths in the first place that robert may have a disturbance of character! and he wants a phd in mental health?….. — Jon Mankowski, L.C.S.W. Far Point Rural Behavioral Health Northern California FAX- 916-474-1693 After a couple wrestless nights, a few fights with my concience, and an exchange of words with a few good detectives, I’ve decided to appologize for being untruthfull and misleading. In a recent post I signed my name as Dr. Robert T. Kralik MD. The truth is, I don’t even have my first degree. But I swear by the good grace of God, someday I will have my Ph.D in mental health, and I will be truely helpfull to my community. I’ve confessed, and I’m sorry, but now it’s up to you to find it in your heart to forgive me. That’s "restless", "conscience", "truly" . You’ve got the handwriting part down already. I forsee a great future for you in politics… —       Alex Colvin jon.  I guess I’d better come clean – I’m Not really a Goddess.    (Although Toci is, and I’m using her name.)  Or are you just kidding, and not really a social worker?  

Response:

lookie here… A lot of folks on this list are vulnerable.  Vulnerable to grasping at nearly anyhing to allieviate their pain.

     I am sure it does not matter, but I do not know what list/group you are reading this in.  I am reading alt.support.depression (ASD).  We get lots and LOTS of trolls.  Some times it is best to invite them to join the group as a "member" rather than as a troll.  On the other hand, we also make a fine troll stew with SPAM salad.  We work with what we have. What I saw on this list were people too quick to forgive an imposter This bothered me so i made a remark regarding his character. Look closely at his mea culpa. I was not "throwing stones" at the fellow.  

     Here I think you are wrong.  I think you made a really snide comment about how he shouldn’t aspire to work in the mental health field since he has problems of his own.  It sure sounded to me like you picked up a stone from your own yard and through it at his window. Yet I did not want to see him get off the hook so easily. Afterall, he was looking outside himself for forgiveness when in fact he appears to have a lot of his own character searching to do.

     Here I think you are right.  I too think he has a lot of his own character searching to do.  However, given what he did initially (pose in a relatively poorly hidden manner as an MD on a usenet newsgroup), I think he did the perfectly correct thing to appologize.  Now did he learn anything from this episode??  My guess is probably the same as your guess.  Not much, but maybe a little. Just my 2 cents. Sincerely Stewart — The Metaphor Man

Response:

After a couple wrestless nights, a few fights with my concience, and an exchange of words with a few good detectives, I’ve decided to appologize for being untruthfull and misleading. In a recent post I signed my name as Dr. Robert T. Kralik MD. The truth is, I don’t even have my first degree. But I swear by the good grace of God, someday I will have my Ph.D in mental health, and I will be truely helpfull to my community. I’ve confessed, and I’m sorry, but now it’s up to you to find it in your heart to forgive me. Signed, plain old rob kralik

I don’t know about the other groups, or the other people on alt.support.depression (ASD).  I only speak for myself.  Welcome to the group Rob.  Pull up a chair.  Tell us what is going on with you. Sincerely Stewart — The Metaphor Man

Response:

whoa…wait a sec….the fact that one would propagate such untruths in the first place that robert may have a disturbance of character! and he wants a phd in mental health?….. — Jon Mankowski, L.C.S.W. Far Point Rural Behavioral Health

So Jon, do you think that your response here was the sensitive and caring sort of thing that want to see from our "Far Point Rural Behavioral Health" professionals?? How does that people in glass houses thing go again??? Sincerely Stewart — The Metaphor Man

Response:

lookie here… a lot of folks on this list are vulnerable. Vulnerable to grasping at nearly anyhing to allieviate their pain. What i saw on this list were people too quick to forgive an imposter This bothered me so i made a remark regarding his character. Look closely at his mea culpa. i was not "throwing stones" at the fellow. yet i did not want to see him get off the hook so easily. Afterall, he was looking outside himself for forgiveness when in fact he appears to have a lot of his own character searching to do. — Jon Mankowski, L.C.S.W. Far Point Rural Behavioral Health Northern California FAX- 916-474-1693 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Oh, dear, whoa…wait a sec….the fact that one would propagate such untruths in the first place that robert may have a disturbance of character! and he wants a phd in mental health?….. — Jon Mankowski, L.C.S.W. Far Point Rural Behavioral Health Northern California FAX- 916-474-1693 After a couple wrestless nights, a few fights with my concience, and an exchange of words with a few good detectives, I’ve decided to appologize for being untruthfull and misleading. In a recent post I signed my name as Dr. Robert T. Kralik MD. The truth is, I don’t even have my first degree. But I swear by the good grace of God, someday I will have my Ph.D in mental health, and I will be truely helpfull to my community. I’ve confessed, and I’m sorry, but now it’s up to you to find it in your heart to forgive me. That’s "restless", "conscience", "truly" . You’ve got the handwriting part down already. I forsee a great future for you in politics… —   Alex Colvin jon.  I guess I’d better come clean – I’m Not really a Goddess.    (Although Toci is, and I’m using her name.)  Or are you just kidding, and not really a social worker?  

Response:

Oh, dear, – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – whoa…wait a sec….the fact that one would propagate such untruths in the first place that robert may have a disturbance of character! and he wants a phd in mental health?….. — Jon Mankowski, L.C.S.W. Far Point Rural Behavioral Health Northern California FAX- 916-474-1693 After a couple wrestless nights, a few fights with my concience, and an exchange of words with a few good detectives, I’ve decided to appologize for being untruthfull and misleading. In a recent post I signed my name as Dr. Robert T. Kralik MD. The truth is, I don’t even have my first degree. But I swear by the good grace of God, someday I will have my Ph.D in mental health, and I will be truely helpfull to my community. I’ve confessed, and I’m sorry, but now it’s up to you to find it in your heart to forgive me. That’s "restless", "conscience", "truly" . You’ve got the handwriting part down already. I forsee a great future for you in politics… —        Alex Colvin

jon.  I guess I’d better come clean – I’m Not really a Goddess.    (Although Toci is, and I’m using her name.)  Or are you just kidding, and not really a social worker?  

Response:

Sorry to spoil your "provider fantasies" Jon but many of us think our mental health providers are much more in need of intervention than we are. Carma – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Oh, dear, whoa…wait a sec….the fact that one would propagate such untruths in the first place that robert may have a disturbance of character! and he wants a phd in mental health?….. — Jon Mankowski, L.C.S.W. Far Point Rural Behavioral Health Northern California FAX- 916-474-1693 After a couple wrestless nights, a few fights with my concience, and an exchange of words with a few good detectives, I’ve decided to appologize for being untruthfull and misleading. In a recent post I signed my name as Dr. Robert T. Kralik MD. The truth is, I don’t even have my first degree. But I swear by the good grace of God, someday I will have my Ph.D in mental health, and I will be truely helpfull to my community. I’ve confessed, and I’m sorry, but now it’s up to you to find it in your heart to forgive me. That’s "restless", "conscience", "truly" . You’ve got the handwriting part down already. I forsee a great future for you in politics… —      Alex Colvin jon.  I guess I’d better come clean – I’m Not really a Goddess.  (Although Toci is, and I’m using her name.)  Or are you just kidding, and not really a social worker?

Response:

Jon, It must have been nice to be so pure and perfect your entire life. When you go to confess your sins I guess you won’t have anything to say. Anything is possible.  People make mistakes and learn from them. Why shouldn’t he?  Would you hold it against him forever?  "Let he whom has not sinned cast the first stone" (or something like that), remember Mr. Mankowski? I don’t know why I’ve been so kind lately, I’m disgusting myself. I’m going to have to be nasty to even it out so people will like me again. Watch out everyone!;-) Cambela You suck!  (Its a start) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – whoa…wait a sec….the fact that one would propagate such untruths in the first place that robert may have a disturbance of character! and he wants a phd in mental health?….. — Jon Mankowski, L.C.S.W. Far Point Rural Behavioral Health Northern California FAX- 916-474-1693 After a couple wrestless nights, a few fights with my concience, and an exchange of words with a few good detectives, I’ve decided to appologize for being untruthfull and misleading. In a recent post I signed my name as Dr. Robert T. Kralik MD. The truth is, I don’t even have my first degree. But I swear by the good grace of God, someday I will have my Ph.D in mental health, and I will be truely helpfull to my community. I’ve confessed, and I’m sorry, but now it’s up to you to find it in your heart to forgive me. That’s "restless", "conscience", "truly" . You’ve got the handwriting part down already. I forsee a great future for you in politics… —       Alex Colvin

Response:

While I was busy reporting email solicitations on Tue, 22 Apr 1997 My mom worked as Office Administrator for County Mental Health for 25 years….  can’t tell you how many times she has said to me (paraphrasing), "The reason they are so good at helping people is because they have been or are screwed up themselves.  Therefore, they are very good at understanding why the rest of us are screwed up."

… but haven’t got a clue what to do about it. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – lookie here… A lot of folks on this list are vulnerable.  Vulnerable to grasping at nearly anyhing to allieviate their pain.     I am sure it does not matter, but I do not know what list/group you are reading this in.  I am reading alt.support.depression (ASD).  We get lots and LOTS of trolls.  Some times it is best to invite them to join the group as a "member" rather than as a troll.  On the other hand, we also make a fine troll stew with SPAM salad.  We work with what we have. What I saw on this list were people too quick to forgive an imposter This bothered me so i made a remark regarding his character. Look closely at his mea culpa. I was not "throwing stones" at the fellow.       Here I think you are wrong.  I think you made a really snide comment about how he shouldn’t aspire to work in the mental health field since he has problems of his own.  It sure sounded to me like you picked up a stone from your own yard and through it at his window. Yet I did not want to see him get off the hook so easily. Afterall, he was looking outside himself for forgiveness when in fact he appears to have a lot of his own character searching to do.     Here I think you are right.  I too think he has a lot of his own character searching to do.  However, given what he did initially (pose in a relatively poorly hidden manner as an MD on a usenet newsgroup), I think he did the perfectly correct thing to appologize.  Now did he learn anything from this episode??  My guess is probably the same as your guess.  Not much, but maybe a little. Just my 2 cents. Sincerely Stewart — The Metaphor Man

Don Stauffer | Email is welcome except solicitation, which | | will be forwarded to domain Administrators. |

Response:

In article After a couple wrestless nights, a few fights with my concience, and an exchange of words with a few good detectives, I’ve decided to appologize for being untruthfull and misleading. In a recent post I signed my name as Dr. Robert T. Kralik MD. The truth is, I don’t even have my first degree. But I swear by the good grace of God, someday I will have my Ph.D in mental health, and I will be truely helpfull to my community. I’ve confessed, and I’m sorry, but now it’s up to you to find it in your heart to forgive me.

I forgive you.   Mental health, ay??  You *OBVIOUSLY* picked the right field! Do us *BOTH* a big fat favor, dont do something *THAT* damned stupid agian. I forgive you.. were all human.. *JUST DONT DO THAT AGIAN!!* Signed, plain old rob kralik

– The *REAL* Internet users prayer: "Lord, I pray that spam will disappare from the Internet. Lord, I ask if this is to be done, may it be soon. Lord, you know how fustrating it is to find real and valuable information while wadeing throught the garbage. Thank you Lord, Aman"

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whoa…wait a sec….the fact that one would propagate such untruths in the first place that robert may have a disturbance of character! and he wants a phd in mental health?….. — Jon Mankowski, L.C.S.W. Far Point Rural Behavioral Health So Jon, do you think that your response here was the sensitive and caring sort of thing that want to see from our "Far Point Rural Behavioral Health" professionals?? How does that people in glass houses thing go again??? Sincerely Stewart

        Dear Stewart and a few others:         I’m rather surprised that Jon is the only one who has expressed anger over this. Or at least *seems* to be the only one. Now I had no involvement with the individual who lied so I wasn’t hurt or so much as bothered by his actions. On the other hand, if I had been involved and had trusted the so called credentials, I would have been terribly hurt and quite possibly angry as hell. I just wonder if anyone was truly harmed or not.         I think in the short run it once again points out how easily the "anonymity" of the Net can be abused. Therefore we should be as careful here as in the outside world when choosing who to confide in.         One other thing. The comment in regards to Jon’s job. I used to be a mechanic, in fact, a damn good one until my hands were damaged. Many people were quite happy with the work I did and I had no worries about holding a job. On the other hand, if you were to have seen my car you would have wondered who is the idiot who would drive that piece of crap. What Jon does professionally and what he does personally can and probably is two different things. I really don’t think dragging Jon’s job in here will achieve anything other then aggravating the situation.         Just my thoughts on the matter.         Peter Something Evil this way comes.

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My mom worked as Office Administrator for County Mental Health for 25 years….  can’t tell you how many times she has said to me (paraphrasing), "The reason they are so good at helping people is because they have been or are screwed up themselves.  Therefore, they are very good at understanding why the rest of us are screwed up." – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – lookie here… A lot of folks on this list are vulnerable.  Vulnerable to grasping at nearly anyhing to allieviate their pain.     I am sure it does not matter, but I do not know what list/group you are reading this in.  I am reading alt.support.depression (ASD).  We get lots and LOTS of trolls.  Some times it is best to invite them to join the group as a "member" rather than as a troll.  On the other hand, we also make a fine troll stew with SPAM salad.  We work with what we have. What I saw on this list were people too quick to forgive an imposter This bothered me so i made a remark regarding his character. Look closely at his mea culpa. I was not "throwing stones" at the fellow.       Here I think you are wrong.  I think you made a really snide comment about how he shouldn’t aspire to work in the mental health field since he has problems of his own.  It sure sounded to me like you picked up a stone from your own yard and through it at his window. Yet I did not want to see him get off the hook so easily. Afterall, he was looking outside himself for forgiveness when in fact he appears to have a lot of his own character searching to do.     Here I think you are right.  I too think he has a lot of his own character searching to do.  However, given what he did initially (pose in a relatively poorly hidden manner as an MD on a usenet newsgroup), I think he did the perfectly correct thing to appologize.  Now did he learn anything from this episode??  My guess is probably the same as your guess.  Not much, but maybe a little. Just my 2 cents. Sincerely Stewart — The Metaphor Man

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Sure, I’d love to tell all about myself to you guys, but you’ll have to give it some time. Unfortunately I am suffering from severe depression and effexor withdrawal simultaneously dispite the fact that I’m tapering. A funny thing is, I have develloped a kinship with this depression, does this mean I am a masochist? Rabbio

No problem.  We all deal with our cycles of activity and inactivity.  Post when you can. Yup, after a while depression becomes a part of you.  I say "I have a cold", meaning it is separate from me.  Something that *I* "have", like I have a pair of shoes.  But I say "I am depressed", because it is a part of who I am.  So how do I get rid of part of who I am without dying just a little??  It is scarry stuff to change.  How do I know there is anything there behind my depression.  What if I lose the depression only to find that I have lost EVERYTHING??  It is NOT easy stuff to change.  The people who says it is, have not changed anything but their shoes recently. Just my 2 cents of course…. Sincerely Stewart — The Metaphor Man

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You were brave to confess.  You did the right thing by doing it publically.  If others condemn you for it, don’t listen to them. I wish I had friends like you. mari

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I was sincere yesterday, and I’m sincere today. I’m still sorry.

Robert, to reduce the clutter I have started a new thread and kept it to ASD only.   So, you want to tell us anything more about yourself other than that you are sorry?? Sincerely Stewart — The Metaphor Man

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Just drop me an email if you’d like to subscribe and get the full newsletter. Brian             Living with Schizophrenia – A Free Periodic Newsletter                Brought to you by http://www.schizophrenia.com                           Issue #47 – April 22nd, 1997                  A Summary of Schizophrenia News and Events        Note: Please forward this newsletter to others who might benefit.             To Subscribe or Unsubscribe send a note to Brian Chiko   Back issues of this newsletter are available at the following web address:              http://www.schizophrenia.com/news/NEWS1.html Contents: Letters to the Editor: Avoiding weight problems associated with anti-psychotic medications? Your assistance needed in Research Effort in Schizophrenia Genetics Success Stories – Nick’s Story Info Needed on Effectiveness of New Medications – Fighting Health Care Changes MH Providers Bring ANTITRUST Suit Against Nine MH Managed Care Groups Working Memory and Schizophrenia – from Pittsburgh Post-Gazette New Janssen Person to Person program for Schizophrenia – Covered by DJ Jaffe

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -kmaze…@aol.com (Kmaze001) wrote:

In article <4ra1ft$3…@usenetz1.news.prodigy.com, BWHM…@prodigy.com (Kathryn Taubert) writes: I’m not trying to be contentious here, but virtually none of the people with TS that I know well enough to ask have EVER had a problem with bedwetting. And I know a lot of ‘em. That may be so.  Sometimes the bedwetting isn’t with the person who has TS, but somewhere else in the family. Two of my three children have TS;

my

mom has had bouts of eneuresis (albeit infrequently) throughout her

life

(also a history of migraines).  I have myself have experienced none of these (nor do I have TS). Regards, Kim

That makes sense. Bedwetting is not uncommon in the population at large, so it would follow suit that it would be found elsewhere in the family. Like brown eyes in lefties, as mentioned before. KAT

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

  kmaze…@aol.com (Kmaze001) writes:  In article <4ra1ft$3…@usenetz1.news.prodigy.com, BWHM…@prodigy.com  (Kathryn Taubert) writes:  I’m not trying to be contentious here, but virtually none of the people  with TS that I know well enough to ask have EVER had a problem with  bedwetting.  And I know a lot of ‘em.  That may be so.  Sometimes the bedwetting isn’t with the person who has  TS, but somewhere else in the family. Two of my three children have TS; my  mom has had bouts of eneuresis (albeit infrequently) throughout her life  (also a history of migraines).  I have myself have experienced none of  these (nor do I have TS).  Regards,  Kim

I’ve heard of the problems with both encopresis and eneuresis in a couple of children, seemingly related to meds taken for TS.  In a child who already has eneuresis AND attention deficit, I would think Impramine would be a good choice, since it’s used in ADD but was first used for bedwetting. Jeanne

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Sorry, but your neurologist does not know what he is talking about.  These kids have _huge_ problems with both bedwetting and insomnia.  The big purple book mentions insomnia as part of TS, and I don’t recall about the wetting or not.   We used DDAVP for a while–but it is terribly expensive.  It is a nasal spray about, $115 for a 3 week supply, depends on how many squirts you have to give a night.  But it quit working for us after about 2 1/2 months.   We have had better luck with some of the tricyclic antidepressants.   Desipramine and Anafranil both helped with this for us.  My son is on anafranil now and the bedwetting is nearly gone. We are giving Melatonin for sleeping right now.  Garret takes about 2mg at bedtime.  He sleeps pretty well, but still wakes up around 4:00!!!!  On tv I saw something advertised called Melatrex (or something like that).  They said it was a long-acting Melatonin, so it would have a night-long effect.  It sounded _great_ to me, but our health food store is small and doesn’t carry much.  The only thing with Melatonin is it is a bit controversial because the jury is still out on long-term health affects from taking it.  And because it is a nutritional supplement, it is not tested by the FDA.

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There are 2 things that you might look into: 1.  Dr. David Cummings wrote a book called "Tourette Syndrome and Human Behavior" .   In this book, he mentions bed wetting as part of the

overall

big picture with people with TS bedwetting or relatives within the

family

tree having this problem.

Comings is wrong here. There is no data to support this assertion. Bed wetting is COMMON amongst children under stress. And those NOT under any particular stress as well. It usually passes after a time, in the great majority of cases. I don’t know where the H… he gets this stuff. It’s like saying that people who are left-handed have brown eyes somewhere in their family tree. Brown eyes are the most common ones. Of COURSE there will be brown eyes somewhere in the family of a left-handed person. jeezzzzz I have TS. I have a male cousin with un DXed TS. I have a sister with bi- polar and a slew of other things. I have another sister with probably OCD and ADD. Dysthymia runs in my family. And so on. NONE of us ever had a problem with bed wetting. Were it so, believe me, I’d have known about it. KAT in CT

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Sorry, but your neurologist does not know what he is talking about.  

These

kids have _huge_ problems with both bedwetting and insomnia.  The big purple book mentions insomnia as part of TS, and I don’t recall about

the

wetting or not.  

No, again. ‘Us Kids" do NOT necessarily have a problem with bedwetting that is DIRECTLY related to the TS gene or genes. And if by the "big purple book" you mean the DSRM-IV, you won’t see bedwetting listed as a symptom of TS because it ISN"T a symptom of TS. KAT in CT

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Don’t you think this is like so many other parts of TS.  Some people have just TS.  Some people have TS and OCD.  Some people have just OCD.  Some people have TS and bi-polar.  My son has TS, OCD, and Asperger’s.  Some people with TS have bedwetting, and some do not. All the people I know with TS also had bedwetting problems as children. Darcie

Response:

In article <31D547D2.2…@innet.be

, Tamara Foubert <pub00…@innet.be

writes:

The neurologist says there is no connection between TS and bedwetting and that the fact that he is taking Orap is of no influence. He says that stress is the major cause of bedwetting. But since he’s in a LD school, we managed to reduce stress considerably.

I have read and heard from a psychologist very knowledgeable about TS that the two are very much related.  Sleep disorders, bedwetting, and night terrors are all disorders of arousal that are somehow connected to TS.  In fact, when she was taking a history to see if  my two children had TS, one of her first questions was whether there was a history of bedwetting in our family (there was, as it happened).  Good luck; I’d get another opinion if I were you. Regards, Kim

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My 8 year old son with TS and ADD wet his bed every night until last summer.  We got an alarm that clips to his pajama top, and has wires connected to a kind of snap that attached to his underwear.  As soon as he started wetting the alarm would sound.  I would get him up and take him to the bathroom, then together we would change the sheets on his bed.  After about a month, the bedwetting stopped!  It came back again a couple months ago when he was taking Risperdal.  As soon as we stopped the Risperdal, the bedwetting stopped again. I don’t know about whether there is a link between bedwetting and TS/ADD. He hadn’t been diagnosed yet when we consulted the pediatrician about the bedwetting.  The doctor did say bedwetting seems to run in families, and there was a history of it in both my husband’s and my family. Good luck! Mary

Response:

I have read and heard from a psychologist very knowledgeable about TS

that

the two are very much related.  Sleep disorders, bedwetting, and night terrors are all disorders of arousal that are somehow connected to TS.  

In

fact, when she was taking a history to see if  my two children had TS,

one

of her first questions was whether there was a history of bedwetting in our family (there was, as it happened).  Good luck; I’d get another opinion if I were you.

Kim, ask your psychologist where she got this information, that you’d like to see the data. I suspect she’ll dig up the Comings book. I personally would like VERY much to know what hard data she has to support this assertion re: TS and bedwetting. Ask her to provide you, if she will,  with her source of information. I’ll look it up myself. KAT in CT

Response:

All the people I know with TS also had bedwetting problems as children.

Darcie

I’m not trying to be contentious here, but virtually none of the people with TS that I know well enough to ask have EVER had a problem with bedwetting. And I know a lot of ‘em. KAT in CT

Response:

In article <4r627v$1…@usenetz1.news.prodigy.com

, BWHM…@prodigy.com

(Kathryn Taubert) writes:

No, again. ‘Us Kids" do NOT necessarily have a problem with bedwetting that is DIRECTLY related to the TS gene or genes. And if by the "big purple book" you mean the DSRM-IV, you won’t see bedwetting listed as a symptom of TS because it ISN"T a symptom of TS.

Kat, Please look at the original post.  The question posed was *whether* there’s a connection.  It was not whether bedwetting is a symptom of TS or whether bedwetting is *directly* related to the gene.  Maybe the connection is as simple as some folks with TS are under more stress and thus have a higher incidence of enueresis (sp?).  In any case, I have heard about this through a local psychologist who is highly respected for her work with TS.  That doesn’t mean she’s right either, but let’s keep an open mind here.  Other related problems (the so-called disorders of arousal) include migraines, sleepwalking, bruxism, and night terrors. Regards, Kim

Response:

In article <4r8rp6$…@newsbf02.news.aol.com

, kmaze…@aol.com (Kmaze001)

writes: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

I have read and heard from a psychologist very knowledgeable about TS

that

the two are very much related.  Sleep disorders, bedwetting, and night terrors are all disorders of arousal that are somehow connected to TS.

In

fact, when she was taking a history to see if  my two children had TS,

one

of her first questions was whether there was a history of bedwetting in our family (there was, as it happened).  Good luck; I’d get another opinion if I were you. Regards, Kim

The problem is that there is no research that has been done on this subject – just a few docs that have tried to find a connection.  What needs to be done is for a data base to be formed with sleep disorders, bedwetting and TS.  Research studies will then need to be done to substantiate this theory.  There may very well be a relationship, but bed wetting isn’t found in any people with TS that I know.  I do know many people without TS that are perfectly normal in every other way that are bed wetters, and have no history of TS in their families. Sleep disorders, on the other hand, seem to be present in a significant number of people with TS, so bed wetting in that respect, could be a result of a sleep problem.  Melatonin has helped many with TS, and Dr. Roger Freeman has touted it as effective in helping the sleep problems in TS.  This makes sense since melatonin is formed from serotonin, and serotonin has been found to be low in a significant number of people with TS.  It is very interesting that antidepressants are used for bed wetters.  They may help by raising serotonin, or maybe they stimulate the body not to go into a deep sleep.  It is my understanding that melatonin just helps the body fall asleep, and doesn’t effect the deepness of the sleep, so that the person feels refreshed and not groggy upon waking.  Too much melatonin is not good, however, and there is some speculation that it may delay puberty.  My son wears earplugs to bed to screen out noises to aid him in going to sleep. Others have equally ingenious techniques in falling asleep – it is highly individual.   Bonnie Grimaldi  in Columbus, Ohio

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Tamara My son is also 8 and wets his bed, but he does not have insomnia. In fact he sleeps so deeply we have trouble waking him. We had always attributed the wetting to his inability to wake himself in time to get to the batrhroom. The diapers will not help him stop. They will reinforce your expectation that he WILL wet the bed every night. David Grupper David Grupper, Brooklyn, NY

Response:

In article <4ra1ft$3…@usenetz1.news.prodigy.com

, BWHM…@prodigy.com

(Kathryn Taubert) writes:

I’m not trying to be contentious here, but virtually none of the people with TS that I know well enough to ask have EVER had a problem with bedwetting. And I know a lot of ‘em. KAT in CT

 Kat,  I have TS and wet the bed up to the age of 14 although with less frequency as I reached that age. It may not be TS but related to some comorbid disorder. I always was a deep sleeper and I’m sure that had a lot to do with it. Now I wonder (and should have asked the doc) if at 41 my enlarged prostrate has any connection with my bedwetting and my bodies attempts at stopping it by overworking the prostrate.  There is no known history of bedwetting in my family but then again I never asked . There is also no known TS in my family but other movement disorders tend to run in our family. Things like essential tremor and spastic torticollis (part of the Dystonia family of disorders).      Wize

Response:

It has been my experience (re-inforced by research) that bed-wetting of this type is physiological.  The child has virtually no control over the problem.  It seems to me that to take any action that puts the responsibility of control on the child can only lead to fear or rebellion or (worst of all) damaged self-esteem.  My daughter was a bed-wetter, as were many of her relatives in past generations (going quite far back) and all in the same pattern, with the last episodes around age 12.  In my daughter’s case, I tried a homeopathic treatment combined with control of her food allergies.  No more bed-wetting.  My son would go into a frighteningly deep sleep occasionally and lose control of his bowels (still not waking up) and I would clean him, his bed, change both, and sstill he would not really wake up.  Obviously,this is not normal.  I tracked that one down to dairy products, especially late in the day.  He still sleep-walks tho’.  How could these poor sweeties ever be held responsible for controlling these symptoms without damaging their self-image, their self-esteem, their self-confidence, or creating an anxiety pproblem?  Thank God and the companies,for the large and adult size diapers. We did stop needing them, although during my pregnancies, I had flare ups of my bowelproblems and felt a desire to have the diapers around!

Response:

In article <4ra1ft$3…@usenetz1.news.prodigy.com

, BWHM…@prodigy.com

(Kathryn Taubert) writes:

I’m not trying to be contentious here, but virtually none of the people with TS that I know well enough to ask have EVER had a problem with bedwetting. And I know a lot of ‘em.

That may be so.  Sometimes the bedwetting isn’t with the person who has TS, but somewhere else in the family. Two of my three children have TS; my mom has had bouts of eneuresis (albeit infrequently) throughout her life (also a history of migraines).  I have myself have experienced none of these (nor do I have TS). Regards, Kim

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Kat, Please look at the original post.  The question posed was *whether* there’s a connection.  It was not whether bedwetting is a symptom of TS

or

whether bedwetting is *directly* related to the gene.  Maybe the connection is as simple as some folks with TS are under more stress and thus have a higher incidence of enueresis (sp?).  In any case, I have heard about this through a local psychologist who is highly respected

for

her work with TS.  That doesn’t mean she’s right either, but let’s keep

an

open mind here.  Other related problems (the so-called disorders of arousal) include migraines, sleepwalking, bruxism, and night terrors. Regards, Kim

Kim, I did look at the original posts, and it was evident in what I saw there that this "connection" was being, if not engraved in stone, assumed to a disturbing degree. I’ve no doubt the the psychologist who has said this to you is reputable. But even reputable people can be wrong. And without caution, these kinds of posts end up making "fact" which is, at present, no more than speculation on the parts of a relatively few individuals, most of whom have read a book with assertions that have NOT been substantiated by the hard data. The comment on the order of "These kids have lots of problems with bedwetting" is suggestive of a direct connection between TS and bedwetting. And, in my personal experience, that’s NOT the case. Phrases such as "these kids" are a bit misleading. They suggest a commonality that has to do with "their disorders."  And, on line, suggestions have a way of becoming fact without further elucidation, and careful wordsmithing. My mind is, and always has been open. So much so, in fact, that I don’t hold as fact the words of any clinician who suggests something that may be either wrong or misleading, no matter how much I like him/her. KAT in CT

Response:

My son is 8 and is dx’d with ADD and TS. Beside tics, mild ocd and echolalia, he also has severe insomnia and wets his bed every night. The neurologist says there is no connection between TS and bedwetting and that the fact that he is taking Orap is of no influence. He says that stress is the major cause of bedwetting. But since he’s in a LD school, we managed to reduce stress considerably.

Does anyone have experience with the combination of TS, insomnia and bedwetting ? There are 2 things that you might look into: 1.  Dr. David Cummings wrote a book called "Tourette Syndrome and Human Behavior" .   In this book, he mentions bed wetting as part of the overall big picture with people with TS bedwetting or relatives within the family tree having this problem. 2.  Is your neurologist knowledgable about TS?  Have you checked his/her Cirriculum Vitae(professional resume) to see how well versed he/she is on the subject.  There are neurologists out there that will still give a TS patient Haldol because that is the only medication that the neurologist knows to perscribe to someone with TS.  Good luck.   Fred in denver

Response:

My son is 8 and is dx’d with ADD and TS. Beside tics, mild ocd and echolalia, he also has severe insomnia and wets his bed every night. He sometimes stays awake till 2 AM and when he finally falls asleep, he wets his bed and wakes up again ! The neurologist says there is no connection between TS and bedwetting and that the fact that he is taking Orap is of no influence. He says that stress is the major cause of bedwetting. But since he’s in a LD school, we managed to reduce stress considerably. Does anyone have experience with the combination of TS, insomnia and bedwetting ? We tried every possible method, but nothing helps. We are now so desperate that we make him wear diapers again, just to have some sleep. I know that is not recommended, but life is hard enough for him trying to cope with TS… Tamara

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