Question:

Hello everybody,     I have just been prescribed a corticosteroid inhaler (Flovent) for mild asthma.  The pharmacist told me about thrush, and that I should be sure to rinse my mouth after I take my dose.  I later called the pharmacist back and asked if I got it, could I give it to someone else (through kissing) and the answer was yes.  So my question is, how common is it if you rinse, and how much of an inconvenience is it if you get it?  Has anyone ever given it to a boyfriend/girlfriend?  Is it easy to control with a fungal mouthwash?  I’m afraid to kiss my boyfriend before I find out more (I couldn’t find much on the web beyond the basic description, and the fact that you can get it even if you rinse well).  Of course I am going to put a call into my allergist, but he only has a clinic once a week or maybe less, so I don’t know when I will get a response.  PLEASE e-mail me about this if anyone has any input on the subject! Thanks!     Mary

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello everybody,     I have just been prescribed a corticosteroid inhaler (Flovent) for mild asthma.  The pharmacist told me about thrush, and that I should be sure to rinse my mouth after I take my dose.  I later called the pharmacist back and asked if I got it, could I give it to someone else (through kissing) and the answer was yes.  So my question is, how common is it if you rinse, and how much of an inconvenience is it if you get it?  Has anyone ever given it to a boyfriend/girlfriend?  Is it easy to control with a fungal mouthwash?  I’m afraid to kiss my boyfriend before I find out more (I couldn’t find much on the web beyond the basic description, and the fact that you can get it even if you rinse well).  Of course I am going to put a call into my allergist, but he only has a clinic once a week or maybe less, so I don’t know when I will get a response.  PLEASE e-mail me about this if anyone has any input on the subject! Thanks!     Mary

Mary, the germs that cause thrush are found in the normal flora of the mouth.  This means your bf already has them.  The reason that the inhalers can cause this problem is that they change the pH of the mouth.  If you rinse well [drink an entire 16 oz glass of water, and swish it around], you shouldn’t have a problem.  I have been using inhaled steroids for more than a decade, and have never gotten thrush. Chris Owens

Response:

Mary, I currently have Oral Thrush and have to fight it continuously.  I gargle very carefully and rinse after every use of Flovent, but still am prone to it.  I think it is very similar to women that are sensitive to vaginal yeast infections also.  One of the things I have found to really help is to eat yogurt everyday.  I also have a prescription for Mycelex lozenges that I can have filled whenever I need it, although I have found that if I rinse well and eat the yogurt I can usually keep the Thrush at bay without having to overuse the Mycelex. Chrystal – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Mary, the germs that cause thrush are found in the normal flora of the mouth.  This means your bf already has them.  The reason that the inhalers can cause this problem is that they change the pH of the mouth.  If you rinse well [drink an entire 16 oz glass of water, and swish it around], you shouldn’t have a problem.  I have been using inhaled steroids for more than a decade, and have never gotten thrush. Chris Owens

Response:

You may also want to try a spacer if you are not currently using one.  It is difficult to time inhalation of the drug with depressing or actuating the inhaler.  If you find you are hitting the back of your throat or tasting the medication when you use your inhaler you need to work on your technique.  A spacer helps you to get more of the medication to your airway instead of your mouth or throat. Don’t forget to shake the canister really well between each dose and wait 30sec to a minute between each puff. Hope this helps. Shane J. Varnum – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Mary, I currently have Oral Thrush and have to fight it continuously.  I gargle very carefully and rinse after every use of Flovent, but still am prone to it.  I think it is very similar to women that are sensitive to vaginal yeast infections also.  One of the things I have found to really help is to eat yogurt everyday

Response:

Mary:  regarding Flovent and thrush.  Generally speaking, thrush from Flovent and other inhaled corticosteriods is kind of hard to get.  Simple mouth care is all that is really necessary.  For example, if you take Flovent 2x/day, take it first thing in the a.m., eat breakfast, brush teeth … take it before bedtime and brush teeth before sleeping.  If you’re on the road, drink a few sips of water, soda, breath mints, etc.  Yes, thrush is transmittable, avoid kissing and wash eating utensils thoroughly afterwards.  To get thrush in the first place, you must be immunocompromised, or not eating/drinking for days (say an unconscious patient in ICU).  I take Azmacort (another corticosteroid) and honestly the aftertaste is so bad,  it’s not hard to remember to use mouthwash/drink/eat/brush teeth!! An asthmatic health professional

Response:

I take Flovent and the only problems I have with it is it makes your throat sore if I dont rinse well. As far as passing thrush on to a boyfriend, I have never heard of that..

Response:

The use of a spacer, can reduce the risk of getting thrush.  It is also a good idea to use a spacer, so the meds get in your lungs, not on on your tongue, roof of your mouth etc…

Response:

rinsing your mouth out, with just water, after each inhaler treatment, will greatly reduce the odds of getting thrush. btw, white oak bark tea works great on killing thrush.  i am not usually a proponent of alternative styles of medicine, but it worked for me.

Response:

You should always rinse out your mouth after using an inhaler.  Especially if you are using any type of steroid inhalers.

The use of a spacer, can reduce the risk of getting thrush.  It is also a good idea to use a spacer, so the meds get in your lungs, not on on your tongue, roof of your mouth etc…

Response:

Question:

Personally, I would not reccommend TheoDur as a substitute to Serevent. They’re somewhat different medications. The route in which they’re taken is different making Serevent much safer, with less concern over blood levels… and just a darn newer med. Many allergists prefer it over a xantine medication. Not that it isn’t effective. In fact, it is probably still prefferred in children. Possibly because pills are an easier management tool than inhalers… and since children aren’t on as many other medications as adults, there are fewer concerns over drug interactions… and there are quite a few of them with xanthine. Still, the doctor is the best place to start.

Response:

Personally, I would not reccommend TheoDur as a substitute to Serevent. They’re somewhat different medications. The route in which they’re taken is different making Serevent much safer, with less concern over blood levels… and just a darn newer med. Many allergists prefer it over a xantine medication. Not that it isn’t effective. In fact, it is probably still prefferred in children. Possibly because pills are an easier management tool than inhalers… and since children aren’t on as many other medications as adults, there are fewer concerns over drug interactions… and there are quite a few of them with xanthine. Still, the doctor is the best place to start.

The 1997 Expert Panel Report recommends the use of a long-acting bronchodilator, especially for nocturnal asthma . The choices shown in Fig 3-4b are either long-acting inhaled beta2-agonist (Serevent), sustained-release theophylline, or long-acting beta-agonist tablets (usually albuterol tablets). I personally use both Serevent and low-dose theophylline SR (Theo-Dur). Both drugs are steroid-sparing drugs; theophylline has the additional advantage of having a mild anti-inflammatory effect. I don’t recommend albuterol tablets due to side effects. Of the 3 drugs, theophylline is the only one to have both bronchodilator and anti-inflammatory effects. Each 200 mg TheoDur tablet has an effect similar to a cup of Starbucks coffee. When I get an asthma exacerbation and am on high dose inhaled steroids (10 puffs/day Vanceril Double Strength), I find that adding 2 or 3-200 mg TheoDur tablets has an additive effect. As far as safety goes, it all depends. There have been some reports on this newgroup of miscarriages in pregnancy that may be linked to Serevent and have been reported to the FDA. So for pregnancy, theophylline is the safer drug; its been around for over 30 years. The FDA has only approved Serevent for ages 12 and up, theophylline is approved for children. However many allergists prescribe it at younger ages. Serevent is usually prescribed 2 puffs x 2. This is also the maximum dose; so it could be dangerous if confused with another inhaler. When theophylline is used in high doses, blood tests are needed to confirm the level. When used at so called sub-therapeutic or low levels, blood level testing is not needed. I agree that for most asthmatics, Serevent is the easiest way to go. Ellis

Response:

Hello.  My pulmonologist switched me from Vanceril to Flovent.  So far I like it.  This is being posted to the group because I want to thank the person who was the catalyst for this change.  I’d been taking 10 puffs 2x day of Vanceril and someone mentioned there was a double strength version. My pulmonologist suggested Flovent 220 mcg would fit the bill. Joyce Odum

Response:

Anybody switched from Vanceril to Flovent?  Did it help?  I just switched today – here’s why.cut Sunday night my tonsils were still swollen, and when I got up this morning.   I now have a very bad cough also.  I called the allergist as soon as they opened, and went in.  She decided to do a PFT, even though I was coughing.  But in general she has decided to scrap the Vanceril & Intal regimen, and started me on Flovent 110 2 puffs twice a day, ad to drop the Maxair back to "as needed."  

I tried to switch from Vanceril (42) to Flovent 44 but its not on the formulary of my HMO; they substituted Vanceril Double Strength (84). You are now taking a Medium Dose of inhaled steroids (440 ug fluticasone/day) whereas before you were taking a Low Dose (6 puffs/day beclomethasone 42) The higher strength steroid inhaler should be more convenient & effective. Current asthma guidelines also recommend the use of a long-term bronchodilator; usually Serevent inhaler 2 puffs twice a day. TheoDur tablets could be substituted. If you are not taking this, ask your doctor about it. Ellis

Response:

Anybody switched from Vanceril to Flovent?  Did it help?  I just switched today – here’s why. Well, it’s been a frustrating weekend.  After 2 weeks with peak flows above 500, I went from 560 Thursday morning to 490 Friday morning. (Apparently caused by catching a cold a weeka ago.)  And by lunch time, when I got a chance to call my doctor, I was down to 470.  My rescue inhaler (Maxair Autohaler) brought me back up to 490 or 500, but only for an hour or two, and then I’d start going down again. Went to the doctor (GP, not allergist – the allergist isn’t in on Fridays), who had me increase my Vanceril to 2 puffs 3 times a day, and had me keep taking the Maxair and added Intal.   Saturday, I was about the same, bouncing between 450 and 500 depending on how long since the last puff of Maxair.  Then my tonsils swelled up.  This dropped the peak flows below 450, even though I wasn’t having the kind of symptoms I associate with those kinds of readings. Sunday I called the doctor who was on call for my regular doctor.  He said it was probably bronchitis, and not to worry, and if the readings didn’t go up, just to keep taking the medicine.  Arrgghh!!!!! Sunday night my tonsils were still swollen, and when I got up this morning.   I now have a very bad cough also.  I called the allergist as soon as they opened, and went in.  She decided to do a PFT, even though I was coughing.  But in general she has decided to scrap the Vanceril & Intal regimen, and started me on Flovent 110 2 puffs twice a day, ad to drop the Maxair back to "as needed."  At least she believes in minimizing the amount of stuff I have to carry around. Hopefully, this works, because I’m tired of being sick, and tired of missing class for doctor’s appointments and because I’m sick.

Response:

Question:

[Uthur] I’m trying to remember the name of a drug someone told me about a while back. It begins with ‘z’ (in Europe) and is used for treating anxiety. It *might* be a newish one.  I’d remember it if I heard it again. Can you help me out please?

Xanax (alprazolam) ? zolpidem? (more a sleeping pil) zopiclon?  (more a sleeping pil) Kind regards, Henk J. van Dijk — The charter is available at:

Question:

Yah, yooh betcha, I read most of and skimmed all of "Your Drug May Be Your Problem: How and Why to Stop Taking Psychiatric Medications."  He is at www.breggin.com  I highly recommend it to everybody here, even though I disagree with large pieces of his arguments. In particular, I found his suggestions about how to come off drugs invaluable. We ALL have to come off drugs, even if only to switch to yet other drugs. He is 110% behind the very-gradually approach. I used his ideas in getting off of Effexor, which was a bastard (I hate saying "it was a bitch"). Anyone who wants to can read elsewhere about the withdrawal I experienced getting off Effexor — I still get email from folks who find my posts when desperately looking on the net for info about Effexor withdrawal. I tapered SUPER ULTRA gradually and still had withdrawal, in retrospect partly because I was taking it only once a day. But reading his advice about coming off of a drug you have become dependent upon was very good for me. The part where I depart from the Dr. is in saying that all drugs everywhere are evil and stew the brains. Methinks this fellow never emptied his checking account and maxed out his credit card in a manic binge, or found out that lithium kept that devil at bay. I have never (to my knowledge) been censored at asdmm. Mostly I think their purpose is to sieve out the trolls and hurtful flames. -Tin who used to be Gan Tinuviel Cuivienen Elbethil "Nightingale, daughter of twilight, singing at the shadowed pool, beholds the divine radiance of the stars."

|Gan, | |Have you spent any time looking at Breggin or the other docs who have |written about the downside of thest meds? I can see that some of my |questions and  comments about them have been eliminated from appearing |on this thread. That seems like someone has a terribly toxic point of |view that doesn’t allow freedom to ask questions and to mention |alternative viewpoints. If that’s the case, then this really isn’t a |place for a bipolar person to be. | |What rare your thoughts? | |Anatman |

| |I’ve done both of those. I think that the obsessing goes along with |the hyperfocusing ADD that I have been noticing — getting stuck and |not being able to shift gears. According to Sears, the ADD doc who |says more than 1/2 of bipolars are ADD, the hyperfocusing ADDers hold |grudges, and I confess to doing that sometimes. The constantly getting |irritated totally sucks — when it is bad it is like running around |with blackboards screeching everywhere. | |- The-Gal-who-was-Gandalf-but-is-thinking-about-Tinuvial | | |   |

| |     | |(2) As I THINK I posted here my half-brother was hospitalized for a |manic episode last fall (Now recognizing the ADD I’m also seeing the |extent of my forgetfulness. | |As I predicted to his folks the month after he got out of the |hospital, and as I have seen in almost every bipolar I’ve ever met, he |has decided to stop taking his medications. |       | |Another trait is obsessing about a person, like an SO or someone you |like and just obsessively calling that person when upset or needing |constant validation from everybody. Or constantly getting irritated. | | | |MorphGrrl | |     | | | | |   | |

Response:

etched permanently into the ether: Antaman, lost posts happen from time to time.  Tonight, there was a little difficulty for us to moderate, and finally I was the only one who was able to do so.  I have allowed all the posts to go through.

That’s kind of an understatement!  We are having moderation problems, that are intermittent.  That can cause a few messages to get lost.  Messages also get lost between your provider and our provider–they never get to us at all.  Long messages (longer than about 200 lines) are most difficult to process.  The longer the message, the more likely something can happen to it.  This is why people need to snip messages and only quote what they are responding to.  And kill those blank lines. Just some hints about how you can help your own messages show up more readily. Another thing has been happening to some providers recently.  For some reason, they just don’t post everything.  Supernews is one of them, I haven’t tracked all of them.  So, check in google about 2-4 hours after you send your message–hopefully it will show up there–that is how you know your provider is dropping messages–they eventually show up in google, but never on your provider’s server. HTH, Nancy Just knockin’ around the zoo. (James Taylor)

Response:

That seems like someone has a terribly toxic point of view that doesn’t allow freedom to ask questions and to mention alternative viewpoints. If that’s the case, then this really isn’t a place for a bipolar person to be.

Antaman, lost posts happen from time to time.  Tonight, there was a little difficulty for us to moderate, and finally I was the only one who was able to do so.  I have allowed all the posts to go through. If your posts are a violation, then we would email you and let you know why we were rejecting your post and then give you the opportunity to resubmit if you make the suggested corrections.  We the moderation team do not just delete and allow your posts not to go through.  I’ve gone round and round with Harry over his not showing up on his server and everyone else saw them.   Just resubmit the missing ones again and I’ll be able to take a look at them.  If they don’t fit the guidelines, then I’ll email you a polite note with what you need to fix. We don’t have a problem with alternative view points.  What we DO have a problem with is people who provide misinformation and people who have a "cure" when there really isn’t one for bipolar disorder.  We also have a problem with people who say to stop taking your meds, that it’s all a crock of hooey and there is no such thing as bipolar disorder.  I’m not going to list everyone you need to go back and Google, but there is plenty of examples in ASDM as to why we can’t and don’t advocate going off all your meds.

Response:

Gan, Have you spent any time looking at Breggin or the other docs who have written about the downside of thest meds? I can see that some of my questions and  comments about them have been eliminated from appearing on this thread. That seems like someone has a terribly toxic point of view that doesn’t allow freedom to ask questions and to mention alternative viewpoints. If that’s the case, then this really isn’t a place for a bipolar person to be. What rare your thoughts? Anatman – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve done both of those. I think that the obsessing goes along with the hyperfocusing ADD that I have been noticing — getting stuck and not being able to shift gears. According to Sears, the ADD doc who says more than 1/2 of bipolars are ADD, the hyperfocusing ADDers hold grudges, and I confess to doing that sometimes. The constantly getting irritated totally sucks — when it is bad it is like running around with blackboards screeching everywhere. – The-Gal-who-was-Gandalf-but-is-thinking-about-Tinuvial (2) As I THINK I posted here my half-brother was hospitalized for a manic episode last fall (Now recognizing the ADD I’m also seeing the extent of my forgetfulness. As I predicted to his folks the month after he got out of the hospital, and as I have seen in almost every bipolar I’ve ever met, he has decided to stop taking his medications. Another trait is obsessing about a person, like an SO or someone you like and just obsessively calling that person when upset or needing constant validation from everybody. Or constantly getting irritated. MorphGrrl

Response:

Here’s Ten for you, hot off the press; You’ll be fine (for the rest of the day). You won’t need to take a holiday from hell, you can imagine you’re there. You won’t need a bank account, it will be empty. You’ll save money on pills, but in any case you would not be able to buy them (see above) You won’t need to pay rent for a property, you’ll feel quite comfortable on the street. You won’t have to buy your friends birthday cards, you won’t have any. You won’t need to decide if you are a Christian, Buddhist or Jew, you can be all three at once. People can make decisions for you in accordance with the instructions you left. Oh sugar, you forgot to leave any. Your family will be really worried and concerned, but that won’t be a problem as you will think everything’s hunky dory. You won’t be able to read this as you will have forgotten to pay your utilities bills. That’s Ten, and you won’t even wonder who this crazy person called Geoff is. Geoff

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Geoff, Sorry to hear about your brother. Mine is thinking about heading down a similar path. He is such a great guy too, so funny! But he doesn’t really care about or for himself, and if he doesn’t watch out pretty soon he is going to lose his current job, which just fits him to a tee at the moment. So let me see if I can squeeze any creativity out of this soggy brain. First the title. PLEASE folks we are bipolars here, and that means we are Creative!!! Help me out with some more reasons and with making these funnier. Heavy is fine — it IS heavy — but a little sugar will help the medicine go down. TOP TEN REASONS TO NOT STOP TAKING YOUR MEDICATION #1) Spending every cent you have and then maxing out all of your credit cards to start a collection of ceramic oriental dragons because they have a deeply mystical significance for you no longer seems like such a great idea.      Especially since you discovered from your last episode when you bought an entire library of Zen Buddhism books that these purchases are non-refundable once you return to sanity. "I was manic at the time," was not a valid defense for those hard-nosed shopkeepers. You could have returned them within that 10 day period, but you were still in the hospital at the time and had totally forgotten about them anyway because you had moved on to the next wonder. #2) You are thinking that you might like to keep a girlfriend/wife for longer than 5 years without scaring her away by telling her stories all night and calling her in the middle of the night from the hospital to tell her she is a whore and you never loved her anyway but then when she confronted you you  didn’t even remember calling her because you were bonkers psychotic at the time. #3) Because the drugs actually work. You have read stories about what happened to manic-depressives before there were drugs that work, and you really don’t need to go there — their lives were a nightmare. You’ve also heard that if bipolars don’t take their drugs their illness gets worse, and you’re not big into suffering. #4) You know that every time you have an episode you damage your brain AND increase the likelihood of another episode. You need to hold on to what little brains you have. With what little brains you have now you are thinking about doing stupid things like stopping your medication — what kind of brilliant life decisions will you make with less of a brain? #5) Suicide no longer has the attraction that it once did, and you know that chances are that bipolars will try and they unfortunately mean it and succeed at it. Life looks a little better to you at the moment and you’d to hang on to it for a bit longer. #6) You realize that although the depressions totally suck and are actually in fact valid reasons for contemplating suicide, that the depressions basically hurt you the most. Those manias on the other hand are a living hell on the people around you and you have decided sadism is not going to be your legacy to the world around you. This is always going to be a difficult one. Every visit for 10 years I ask is there a chance that I can stop or reduce my medication. Last December, my younger brother was also diagnosed b/p. (I’m 52, down in E England he is 47 up in Scotland). In my opinion he has always been ‘crazier’ than me….no, amend that….in everyone’s opinion! However, I do sometimes struggle against the effects of medication to maintain some sort of well being, and keep my eyelids propped open, whilst he seems to be carrying on on his own little planet, quite oblivious, unmedicated….well that’s how it seems……. But, I am not the one that’s had an acrimonious divorce; the one that’s fallen behind with house payments; the one that’s 40,000 UKP in debt; the one that drove down from Scotland on bald illegal and dangerous tyres; the one that forgets to keep in touch with his children;  and that bought a rubbish timeshare holiday apartment. Oops, not exactly playful as you had wanted, but a comparison between two people sharing the same nature, but not all of the same nurture in our case, due to the long time and distance separation. Hope you come up with the right form of words for your brother Geoff (2) As I THINK I posted here my half-brother was hospitalized for a manic episode last fall (Now recognizing the ADD I’m also seeing the extent of my forgetfulness. As I predicted to his folks the month after he got out of the hospital, and as I have seen in almost every bipolar I’ve ever met, he has decided to stop taking his medications. Since I am the older wiser? big Sis who has already been there and done that, he does think highly of me and defer to me in many ways about this. i.e. I have some clout. I’ve tried to keep a low profile and not give too many "thou shalts" — this is hard enough without people telling you what to do. But I feel called to say something, with my training and expertise I have some responsibility. I’m thinking about making this playful, and sending him an email with a "Top 10 reasons not to stop taking your medication." Any ideas? Many thanks, -The-ASDM/M-poster-previously-known-as-Gandalf-who-is-currently-in-transi t ion-to-a-new-moniker

Response:

I’ve done both of those. I think that the obsessing goes along with the hyperfocusing ADD that I have been noticing — getting stuck and not being able to shift gears. According to Sears, the ADD doc who says more than 1/2 of bipolars are ADD, the hyperfocusing ADDers hold grudges, and I confess to doing that sometimes. The constantly getting irritated totally sucks — when it is bad it is like running around with blackboards screeching everywhere. – The-Gal-who-was-Gandalf-but-is-thinking-about-Tinuvial – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (2) As I THINK I posted here my half-brother was hospitalized for a manic episode last fall (Now recognizing the ADD I’m also seeing the extent of my forgetfulness. As I predicted to his folks the month after he got out of the hospital, and as I have seen in almost every bipolar I’ve ever met, he has decided to stop taking his medications. Another trait is obsessing about a person, like an SO or someone you like and just obsessively calling that person when upset or needing constant validation from everybody. Or constantly getting irritated. MorphGrrl

Response:

Geoff, Sorry to hear about your brother. Mine is thinking about heading down a similar path. He is such a great guy too, so funny! But he doesn’t really care about or for himself, and if he doesn’t watch out pretty soon he is going to lose his current job, which just fits him to a tee at the moment. So let me see if I can squeeze any creativity out of this soggy brain. First the title. PLEASE folks we are bipolars here, and that means we are Creative!!! Help me out with some more reasons and with making these funnier. Heavy is fine — it IS heavy — but a little sugar will help the medicine go down. TOP TEN REASONS TO NOT STOP TAKING YOUR MEDICATION #1) Spending every cent you have and then maxing out all of your credit cards to start a collection of ceramic oriental dragons because they have a deeply mystical significance for you no longer seems like such a great idea.      Especially since you discovered from your last episode when you bought an entire library of Zen Buddhism books that these purchases are non-refundable once you return to sanity. "I was manic at the time," was not a valid defense for those hard-nosed shopkeepers. You could have returned them within that 10 day period, but you were still in the hospital at the time and had totally forgotten about them anyway because you had moved on to the next wonder. #2) You are thinking that you might like to keep a girlfriend/wife for longer than 5 years without scaring her away by telling her stories all night and calling her in the middle of the night from the hospital to tell her she is a whore and you never loved her anyway but then when she confronted you you  didn’t even remember calling her because you were bonkers psychotic at the time. #3) Because the drugs actually work. You have read stories about what happened to manic-depressives before there were drugs that work, and you really don’t need to go there — their lives were a nightmare. You’ve also heard that if bipolars don’t take their drugs their illness gets worse, and you’re not big into suffering. #4) You know that every time you have an episode you damage your brain AND increase the likelihood of another episode. You need to hold on to what little brains you have. With what little brains you have now you are thinking about doing stupid things like stopping your medication — what kind of brilliant life decisions will you make with less of a brain? #5) Suicide no longer has the attraction that it once did, and you know that chances are that bipolars will try and they unfortunately mean it and succeed at it. Life looks a little better to you at the moment and you’d to hang on to it for a bit longer. #6) You realize that although the depressions totally suck and are actually in fact valid reasons for contemplating suicide, that the depressions basically hurt you the most. Those manias on the other hand are a living hell on the people around you and you have decided sadism is not going to be your legacy to the world around you. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -This is always going to be a difficult one. Every visit for 10 years I ask is there a chance that I can stop or reduce my medication. Last December, my younger brother was also diagnosed b/p. (I’m 52, down in E England he is 47 up in Scotland). In my opinion he has always been ‘crazier’ than me….no, amend that….in everyone’s opinion! However, I do sometimes struggle against the effects of medication to maintain some sort of well being, and keep my eyelids propped open, whilst he seems to be carrying on on his own little planet, quite oblivious, unmedicated….well that’s how it seems……. But, I am not the one that’s had an acrimonious divorce; the one that’s fallen behind with house payments; the one that’s 40,000 UKP in debt; the one that drove down from Scotland on bald illegal and dangerous tyres; the one that forgets to keep in touch with his children;  and that bought a rubbish timeshare holiday apartment. Oops, not exactly playful as you had wanted, but a comparison between two people sharing the same nature, but not all of the same nurture in our case, due to the long time and distance separation. Hope you come up with the right form of words for your brother Geoff (2) As I THINK I posted here my half-brother was hospitalized for a manic episode last fall (Now recognizing the ADD I’m also seeing the extent of my forgetfulness. As I predicted to his folks the month after he got out of the hospital, and as I have seen in almost every bipolar I’ve ever met, he has decided to stop taking his medications. Since I am the older wiser? big Sis who has already been there and done that, he does think highly of me and defer to me in many ways about this. i.e. I have some clout. I’ve tried to keep a low profile and not give too many "thou shalts" — this is hard enough without people telling you what to do. But I feel called to say something, with my training and expertise I have some responsibility. I’m thinking about making this playful, and sending him an email with a "Top 10 reasons not to stop taking your medication." Any ideas? Many thanks, -The-ASDM/M-poster-previously-known-as-Gandalf-who-is-currently-in-transit ion-to-a-new-moniker

Response:

(2) As I THINK I posted here my half-brother was hospitalized for a manic episode last fall (Now recognizing the ADD I’m also seeing the extent of my forgetfulness. As I predicted to his folks the month after he got out of the hospital, and as I have seen in almost every bipolar I’ve ever met, he has decided to stop taking his medications.

Another trait is obsessing about a person, like an SO or someone you like and just obsessively calling that person when upset or needing constant validation from everybody. Or constantly getting irritated. MorphGrrl

Response:

This is always going to be a difficult one. Every visit for 10 years I ask is there a chance that I can stop or reduce my medication. Last December, my younger brother was also diagnosed b/p. (I’m 52, down in E England he is 47 up in Scotland). In my opinion he has always been ‘crazier’ than me….no, amend that….in everyone’s opinion! However, I do sometimes struggle against the effects of medication to maintain some sort of well being, and keep my eyelids propped open, whilst he seems to be carrying on on his own little planet, quite oblivious, unmedicated….well that’s how it seems……. But, I am not the one that’s had an acrimonious divorce; the one that’s fallen behind with house payments; the one that’s 40,000 UKP in debt; the one that drove down from Scotland on bald illegal and dangerous tyres; the one that forgets to keep in touch with his children;  and that bought a rubbish timeshare holiday apartment. Oops, not exactly playful as you had wanted, but a comparison between two people sharing the same nature, but not all of the same nurture in our case, due to the long time and distance separation. Hope you come up with the right form of words for your brother Geoff

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (2) As I THINK I posted here my half-brother was hospitalized for a manic episode last fall (Now recognizing the ADD I’m also seeing the extent of my forgetfulness. As I predicted to his folks the month after he got out of the hospital, and as I have seen in almost every bipolar I’ve ever met, he has decided to stop taking his medications. Since I am the older wiser? big Sis who has already been there and done that, he does think highly of me and defer to me in many ways about this. i.e. I have some clout. I’ve tried to keep a low profile and not give too many "thou shalts" — this is hard enough without people telling you what to do. But I feel called to say something, with my training and expertise I have some responsibility. I’m thinking about making this playful, and sending him an email with a "Top 10 reasons not to stop taking your medication." Any ideas? Many thanks, -The-ASDM/M-poster-previously-known-as-Gandalf-who-is-currently-in-transit

ion-to-a-new-moniker – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

(2) As I THINK I posted here my half-brother was hospitalized for a manic episode last fall (Now recognizing the ADD I’m also seeing the extent of my forgetfulness. As I predicted to his folks the month after he got out of the hospital, and as I have seen in almost every bipolar I’ve ever met, he has decided to stop taking his medications. Since I am the older wiser? big Sis who has already been there and done that, he does think highly of me and defer to me in many ways about this. i.e. I have some clout. I’ve tried to keep a low profile and not give too many "thou shalts" — this is hard enough without people telling you what to do. But I feel called to say something, with my training and expertise I have some responsibility. I’m thinking about making this playful, and sending him an email with a "Top 10 reasons not to stop taking your medication." Any ideas? Many thanks, -The-ASDM/M-poster-previously-known-as-Gandalf-who-is-currently-in-transiti on-to-a-new-moniker

Response:

Question:

Hi, I would like to know if taking HGH drugs can stimulate growth when one is already 22 (male)?

NO.  After the growth areas in the bones have closed off, no further height can be achieved.   Tsu Dho Nimh A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.

Response:

I would like to know if taking HGH drugs can stimulate growth when one is already 22 (male)? Only if your growth plates haven’t already closed. — | Microsoft: "A reputation for releasing inferior software will make | | it more difficult for a software vendor to induce customers to pay | | for new products or new versions of existing products."            |

What about DHEA  Is it good for all problems?

Response:

I would like to know if taking HGH drugs can stimulate growth when one is already 22 (male)? Only if your growth plates haven’t already closed. What about DHEA  Is it good for all problems?

If you have a seratonin deficiency caused by low DHEA, and assuming that a reasonable amount makes it through the digestive system and blood-brain barrier, then it could do you a lot of good. — | Microsoft: "A reputation for releasing inferior software will make | | it more difficult for a software vendor to induce customers to pay | | for new products or new versions of existing products."            |

Response:

I would like to know if taking HGH drugs can stimulate growth when one is already 22 (male)? Only if your growth plates haven’t already closed.

Can I get this tested, e.g. by my physician?

Response:

What about DHEA  Is it good for all problems?

What is DHEA compared with HGH?

Response:

I would like to know if taking HGH drugs can stimulate growth when one is already 22 (male)? NO.  After the growth areas in the bones have closed off, no further height can be achieved.  

Okay, say that is the case (they have closed off). Would it cause negative effects etc. when I took HGH or DHEA? What would be better for "testing", HGH or DHEA or both? And: When will be the time to determine if it works or not?

Response:

I would like to know if taking HGH drugs can stimulate growth when one is already 22 (male)? NO.  After the growth areas in the bones have closed off, no further height can be achieved.   Okay, say that is the case (they have closed off). Would it cause negative effects etc. when I took HGH or DHEA?

Mucking around with hormones is not a good idea.  Also true HGH is a very expensive injectible presctiption-only substance, not something you can buy retail.   It sounds like you are a short 22-year old male who wants to be taller.  Unfortunately, genetics and nutritional status during childhood and adolescence have almost complete control over height.   Tsu Dho Nimh A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.

Response:

I would like to know if taking HGH drugs can stimulate growth when one is already 22 (male)? Only if your growth plates haven’t already closed. Can I get this tested, e.g. by my physician?

X-rays would show whether or not the long bones had active growth plates or not.   Tsu Dho Nimh A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.

Response:

I would like to know if taking HGH drugs can stimulate growth when one is already 22 (male)? Only if your growth plates haven’t already closed. Can I get this tested, e.g. by my physician?

Yup.  One of the 18yo boys was having some joint pain recently, and since they’ve been slow growing (and are still a bit shorter than their father) we thought maybe it was a late growth spurt causing something like Osgood Schlatter’s Disease. Nope.  The orthopod reported that the growth plates were *almost* closed. — | Microsoft: "A reputation for releasing inferior software will make | | it more difficult for a software vendor to induce customers to pay | | for new products or new versions of existing products."            |

Response:

Hi, I would like to know if taking HGH drugs can stimulate growth when one is already 22 (male)? Manuel

Hi Manuel- I personally grew 2 inches at age 30 as a result of heavy therapy which cleared out some difficult childhood trauma. HGH (whether injectable, releaser or homeopathic) has NOT had very good results with people like yourself. But if for years you have felt yourself to be small, short, unhappy about your height, etc; there is a possibility (my GUESS would be about 3%-10% chance) that HGH might do something for your height partly because of psychological reasons. Good luck. Thayer Thayer White MA MFT http://www.helpself.com http://www.psychologyhelp.com http://www.hghcompany.com

Response:

Hi, I would like to know if taking HGH drugs can stimulate growth when one is already 22 (male)? Manuel

Response:

I would like to know if taking HGH drugs can stimulate growth when one is already 22 (male)?

Only if your growth plates haven’t already closed. — | Microsoft: "A reputation for releasing inferior software will make | | it more difficult for a software vendor to induce customers to pay | | for new products or new versions of existing products."            |

Response:

Question:

Jews don’t  have a man made God. Arab refugees  were intentionally not absorbed into the Arab lands to which they fled, despite the vast Arab territory. Out of 100,000,000 refugees since World War II, theirs is the only refugees group in the world that has never been absorbed or integrated into their own peoples land. Israel makes up I think less than 2% of the people in Arab territory. You can tell who has God. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Zionism Only Exist Through Terrorism The Philosophies of Terrorism and Force Since Zionism relies upon a form of apartheid, it should be led to destroy its foes based upon the principle of apartheid that teaches "survival is for the best". In other words, in order to protect themselves, the superior race has authority to control, by whatever means, the lower, inferior race. This is considered to be a natural law of survival. However, the Zionists also rely on the false claim that the Jews have been persecuted throughout ages, which gives them the justification to behave as they do.  According to the Zionist perspective, the Jew has lived under continual persecution throughout time and therefore he has to raise his sword against all his foes and seek retribution. Begin believed that the Jews would not be able to live peacefully unless they proved that they were the strongest, that they have to be merciless, because being merciful is a sign of weakness and would threaten the existence of the Jews. In addition to natural philosophy and false history, Zionism has tried to achieve the establishment of a so-called "vital domain", which entails the erection of walls and easily defendable borders, or the creation of a natural extension to the State, so as to facilitate its political, economic and ideological movement. Thus, the existence of the State of Israel naturally requires the use of force, because this State is surrounded by the Arabs, who should be sent a clear message that they will be exterminated if they do not accept the Zionist ideology. The philosophy and practices of the Zionists rely on both modern ideas as well as the ancient religion of the Jews. This is because the Jewish religion, as created by the rabbis, remains as a source of inspiration for all those who adopt terrorism and glorify force. The Prophet Ezekeil says, "Do not be merciful, murder everybody, including the young, the old, the virgins, the children and the women, all of whom should be destroyed." It is also mentioned in the Talmud that, "The Jew should murder an infidel because this will make him closer to God." It also says, "Jesus Christ and his disciples are infidels". Yahuthkia says that, "This statement includes all the pagans". On the other hand, Memanoud interprets the words of God, which say "Do not kill" as meaning "God prohibits the killing of the Jews", and in addition, the Jews should "Forgive the non-Jew even he is an atheist, kills an Israeli, or if he has slept with a Jewish woman, as long as he becomes a Jew".  Hence, we have two representations of murder: the first urges the committing of murder, regardless of any ethical or moral reference, and it considers murder a permitted action, without any limitations or restrictions, being applicable for all, men, women, children and the elderly. The second representation supplements the first, because it permits the killing of non-Jews in retribution; this applies to all peoples who are not of the Jews, including Jesus, and all his followers, who are considered to be infidels. Consequently, the world is divided into two parts; the first is the realm of the Jew who stands with a raised sword, and the second is the realm which belongs to all non-Jews, who must be exterminated. This philosophy is a result of the belief that the Jew is the mirror of God on earth, and that therefore in his role as God’s reflection on earth, he is capable of distinguishing between faith and unfaith. Again, this is similar to the image of the Arian, as used in the Hitlerite philosophy of Resenburgh, which divides the world into black and white, or man and beasts, with the role of man being to clear the earth of all fierce and primitive life forms.  The Jewish theology teaches, that the universe will not be beautiful unless it is cleansed by the Jewish sword of all the foes of the Jews; hence murder has become the sole means of achieving this beauty. In searching for this beauty, the Zionists have simplified the first teachings of Zionism, so that they are close to the teachings of the church and political reality, which rely on terrorism. Under these teachings, since most of people are barbarians, the best way to rule them is through violence and terrorism, rather than through democracy or social debates. The wise men can impose absolute racial discrimination, because the world is divided into savages and the chosen few, who have the right to govern the entire world. Thus the Zionists do not simply talk about the kingdom of Jerusalem, the Promised Land, or Utopia, they believe that they have the right to rule the whole world.  As we have already discussed, the Zionists believe that this can only be achieved through murder and war. Indeed, it is argued that war is the beginning and the end, and that it is the way of the strong, while politics is for the weak. The wise men of Zion found their beliefs on history and human experience-they believe that people were originally ruled by brutal, blind force and later by law, which they see as being one and the same thing. Zionism expresses three facts: first, that brutality is an innate part of human nature; secondly, Zionism accepts the brutal side of human history and does not recognize the enlightenment, which emphasizes the right of all peoples to live peacefully. It does not even approach the humanitarian ideas of Russell, Albert Einstein, and Karl Marx, instead it refers to the pre-human phase or the "human cattle" society, where man was ruled solely by instinct, far away from the rational development phases of humanity. Thus Zionism adopts the use of blind instinct and refers to the man of the primitive era, where he was ruled by instinct, while it disregards the development of human societies, rationally, ethically and culturally; and thirdly, because Zionism disregards the development of the human society, it equates modern law with the natural laws of brutal force, thus completing its circle of darkness.  Zionism epitomizes the use of war instead of politics, persecution instead of debate, instinct instead of reason, the old instead of the new, and the Jews instead of all others. As they have said, "We are the source of terrorism everywhere, and all people belonging to various origins and faiths are keen on serving our goals." They state that their policy is one of force and double-dealing because they can see that success can be achieved by force, especially force which is necessary for the politician who must depend upon his genius, violence and cunning. Zionism does not only adopt the use of terrorism, war and force, it also disdains all that is considered to be humane and ethical, thus it glorifies double-dealing and cunning, and considers them innate qualities for the genius. Such a philosophy binds humanity with evil, sheds blood and denies the human standards, which confirms the unity of human society, the development of reason and the promotion of the human culture. This is because racialism denies humanity, sheds blood, monopolizes the human qualities, and generally does not recognize humanity, except as an inferior standard. Ben Gurion rationalized and justified terrorism when he said that the rifle was invented to kill others and that the soldier is the means to carry this out, and that this is the case just as water is for drinking and air is for breathing. Furthermore, that "Armed and powerful people are to be considered as a danger against themselves as well as others, especially when they are more powerful than the others, consequently we should exterminate them. This is the mission of the Hagana members who must always be merciless, bearing in mind that man has never been an angel, but consists merely of flesh and blood, that he may misuse his powers unless he is always under control." Ben Gurion has revived the teachings of Zion’s wise men, and he has rationalized these teachings, proposing that the armed man is a natural phenomenon that develops just as all other natural phenomena do. He teaches that arms are a natural part of the universe, and that the fighter grows as naturally as the plants; this is an idea that is similar in many ways to the belief in the law of the jungle. On another level, he discusses the political economy of force, which, he argues, will turn upon its creator as well as society unless it is channelled through carefully chosen methods, such as terrorism. He proposes that such a policy will achieve balance in the society which otherwise risks being destroyed. This is similar to the power of sexual energy, which can cause negative and destructive psychiatric symptoms, unless it is released. Consequently, in order to preserve both the body and soul, the use of violence is deemed to be a necessity. Respectively, the means to control this energy is through a ’superpower’, which does not suppress violence but rather systematically unleashes it. Thus, according to Ben Gurion, the State is the instrument to control and channel violence to the right path, that, although violence should be regulated, it is essential to the existence of the State.  This philosophy considers violence to be a natural instinct and murder a natural necessity, that man cannot achieve a healthy balance unless he releases his destructive

… read more »

Response:

Zionism Only Exist Through Terrorism

Garbage deleted. Why is it that the people using Muslim names in here spout the most insane anti-Jewish trash I have ever had the displeasure to read? If someone was to speak like this in a free country, we’d consider them a bit touched in the head.

Response:

SO, BUBU Why are muslems more entitled to a state of their own thatn would be others? How do arabs live unhindered in Israel? DO tell the answers to these questions o great one

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Zionism Only Exist Through Terrorism The Philosophies of Terrorism and Force Since Zionism relies upon a form of apartheid, it should be led to destroy its foes based upon the principle of apartheid that teaches "survival is for the best". In other words, in order to protect themselves, the superior race has authority to control, by whatever means, the lower, inferior race. This is considered to be a natural law of survival. However, the Zionists also rely on the false claim that the Jews have been persecuted throughout ages, which gives them the justification to behave as they do.  According to the Zionist perspective, the Jew has lived under continual persecution throughout time and therefore he has to raise his sword against all his foes and seek retribution. Begin believed that the Jews would not be able to live peacefully unless they proved that they were the strongest, that they have to be merciless, because being merciful is a sign of weakness and would threaten the existence of the Jews. In addition to natural philosophy and false history, Zionism has tried to achieve the establishment of a so-called "vital domain", which entails the erection of walls and easily defendable borders, or the creation of a natural extension to the State, so as to facilitate its political, economic and ideological movement. Thus, the existence of the State of Israel naturally requires the use of force, because this State is surrounded by the Arabs, who should be sent a clear message that they will be exterminated if they do not accept the Zionist ideology. The philosophy and practices of the Zionists rely on both modern ideas as well as the ancient religion of the Jews. This is because the Jewish religion, as created by the rabbis, remains as a source of inspiration for all those who adopt terrorism and glorify force. The Prophet Ezekeil says, "Do not be merciful, murder everybody, including the young, the old, the virgins, the children and the women, all of whom should be destroyed." It is also mentioned in the Talmud that, "The Jew should murder an infidel because this will make him closer to God." It also says, "Jesus Christ and his disciples are infidels". Yahuthkia says that, "This statement includes all the pagans". On the other hand, Memanoud interprets the words of God, which say "Do not kill" as meaning "God prohibits the killing of the Jews", and in addition, the Jews should "Forgive the non-Jew even he is an atheist, kills an Israeli, or if he has slept with a Jewish woman, as long as he becomes a Jew".  Hence, we have two representations of murder: the first urges the committing of murder, regardless of any ethical or moral reference, and it considers murder a permitted action, without any limitations or restrictions, being applicable for all, men, women, children and the elderly. The second representation supplements the first, because it permits the killing of non-Jews in retribution; this applies to all peoples who are not of the Jews, including Jesus, and all his followers, who are considered to be infidels. Consequently, the world is divided into two parts; the first is the realm of the Jew who stands with a raised sword, and the second is the realm which belongs to all non-Jews, who must be exterminated. This philosophy is a result of the belief that the Jew is the mirror of God on earth, and that therefore in his role as God’s reflection on earth, he is capable of distinguishing between faith and unfaith. Again, this is similar to the image of the Arian, as used in the Hitlerite philosophy of Resenburgh, which divides the world into black and white, or man and beasts, with the role of man being to clear the earth of all fierce and primitive life forms.  The Jewish theology teaches, that the universe will not be beautiful unless it is cleansed by the Jewish sword of all the foes of the Jews; hence murder has become the sole means of achieving this beauty. In searching for this beauty, the Zionists have simplified the first teachings of Zionism, so that they are close to the teachings of the church and political reality, which rely on terrorism. Under these teachings, since most of people are barbarians, the best way to rule them is through violence and terrorism, rather than through democracy or social debates. The wise men can impose absolute racial discrimination, because the world is divided into savages and the chosen few, who have the right to govern the entire world. Thus the Zionists do not simply talk about the kingdom of Jerusalem, the Promised Land, or Utopia, they believe that they have the right to rule the whole world.  As we have already discussed, the Zionists believe that this can only be achieved through murder and war. Indeed, it is argued that war is the beginning and the end, and that it is the way of the strong, while politics is for the weak. The wise men of Zion found their beliefs on history and human experience-they believe that people were originally ruled by brutal, blind force and later by law, which they see as being one and the same thing. Zionism expresses three facts: first, that brutality is an innate part of human nature; secondly, Zionism accepts the brutal side of human history and does not recognize the enlightenment, which emphasizes the right of all peoples to live peacefully. It does not even approach the humanitarian ideas of Russell, Albert Einstein, and Karl Marx, instead it refers to the pre-human phase or the "human cattle" society, where man was ruled solely by instinct, far away from the rational development phases of humanity. Thus Zionism adopts the use of blind instinct and refers to the man of the primitive era, where he was ruled by instinct, while it disregards the development of human societies, rationally, ethically and culturally; and thirdly, because Zionism disregards the development of the human society, it equates modern law with the natural laws of brutal force, thus completing its circle of darkness.  Zionism epitomizes the use of war instead of politics, persecution instead of debate, instinct instead of reason, the old instead of the new, and the Jews instead of all others. As they have said, "We are the source of terrorism everywhere, and all people belonging to various origins and faiths are keen on serving our goals." They state that their policy is one of force and double-dealing because they can see that success can be achieved by force, especially force which is necessary for the politician who must depend upon his genius, violence and cunning. Zionism does not only adopt the use of terrorism, war and force, it also disdains all that is considered to be humane and ethical, thus it glorifies double-dealing and cunning, and considers them innate qualities for the genius. Such a philosophy binds humanity with evil, sheds blood and denies the human standards, which confirms the unity of human society, the development of reason and the promotion of the human culture. This is because racialism denies humanity, sheds blood, monopolizes the human qualities, and generally does not recognize humanity, except as an inferior standard. Ben Gurion rationalized and justified terrorism when he said that the rifle was invented to kill others and that the soldier is the means to carry this out, and that this is the case just as water is for drinking and air is for breathing. Furthermore, that "Armed and powerful people are to be considered as a danger against themselves as well as others, especially when they are more powerful than the others, consequently we should exterminate them. This is the mission of the Hagana members who must always be merciless, bearing in mind that man has never been an angel, but consists merely of flesh and blood, that he may misuse his powers unless he is always under control." Ben Gurion has revived the teachings of Zion’s wise men, and he has rationalized these teachings, proposing that the armed man is a natural phenomenon that develops just as all other natural phenomena do. He teaches that arms are a natural part of the universe, and that the fighter grows as naturally as the plants; this is an idea that is similar in many ways to the belief in the law of the jungle. On another level, he discusses the political economy of force, which, he argues, will turn upon its creator as well as society unless it is channelled through carefully chosen methods, such as terrorism. He proposes that such a policy will achieve balance in the society which otherwise risks being destroyed. This is similar to the power of sexual energy, which can cause negative and destructive psychiatric symptoms, unless it is released. Consequently, in order to preserve both the body and soul, the use of violence is deemed to be a necessity. Respectively, the means to control this energy is through a ’superpower’, which does not suppress violence but rather systematically unleashes it. Thus, according to Ben Gurion, the State is the instrument to control and channel violence to the right path, that, although violence should be regulated, it is essential to the existence of the State.  This philosophy considers violence to be a natural instinct and murder a natural necessity, that man cannot achieve a healthy balance unless he releases his destructive potential through the act of killing. It is interesting to note here that Ben Gurion has ignored the possibility of releasing this latent

… read more »

Response:

Zionism Only Exist Through Terrorism The Philosophies of Terrorism and Force   Since Zionism relies upon a form of apartheid, it should be led to destroy its foes based upon the principle of apartheid that teaches "survival is for the best". In other words, in order to protect themselves, the superior race has authority to control, by whatever means, the lower, inferior race. This is considered to be a natural law of survival. However, the Zionists also rely on the false claim that the Jews have been persecuted throughout ages, which gives them the justification to behave as they do.  According to the Zionist perspective, the Jew has lived under continual persecution throughout time and therefore he has to raise his sword against all his foes and seek retribution. Begin believed that the Jews would not be able to live peacefully unless they proved that they were the strongest, that they have to be merciless, because being merciful is a sign of weakness and would threaten the existence of the Jews. In addition to natural philosophy and false history, Zionism has tried to achieve the establishment of a so-called "vital domain", which entails the erection of walls and easily defendable borders, or the creation of a natural extension to the State, so as to facilitate its political, economic and ideological movement. Thus, the existence of the State of Israel naturally requires the use of force, because this State is surrounded by the Arabs, who should be sent a clear message that they will be exterminated if they do not accept the Zionist ideology. The philosophy and practices of the Zionists rely on both modern ideas as well as the ancient religion of the Jews. This is because the Jewish religion, as created by the rabbis, remains as a source of inspiration for all those who adopt terrorism and glorify force. The Prophet Ezekeil says, "Do not be merciful, murder everybody, including the young, the old, the virgins, the children and the women, all of whom should be destroyed." It is also mentioned in the Talmud that, "The Jew should murder an infidel because this will make him closer to God." It also says, "Jesus Christ and his disciples are infidels". Yahuthkia says that, "This statement includes all the pagans". On the other hand, Memanoud interprets the words of God, which say "Do not kill" as meaning "God prohibits the killing of the Jews", and in addition, the Jews should "Forgive the non-Jew even he is an atheist, kills an Israeli, or if he has slept with a Jewish woman, as long as he becomes a Jew".  Hence, we have two representations of murder: the first urges the committing of murder, regardless of any ethical or moral reference, and it considers murder a permitted action, without any limitations or restrictions, being applicable for all, men, women, children and the elderly. The second representation supplements the first, because it permits the killing of non-Jews in retribution; this applies to all peoples who are not of the Jews, including Jesus, and all his followers, who are considered to be infidels. Consequently, the world is divided into two parts; the first is the realm of the Jew who stands with a raised sword, and the second is the realm which belongs to all non-Jews, who must be exterminated. This philosophy is a result of the belief that the Jew is the mirror of God on earth, and that therefore in his role as God’s reflection on earth, he is capable of distinguishing between faith and unfaith. Again, this is similar to the image of the Arian, as used in the Hitlerite philosophy of Resenburgh, which divides the world into black and white, or man and beasts, with the role of man being to clear the earth of all fierce and primitive life forms.  The Jewish theology teaches, that the universe will not be beautiful unless it is cleansed by the Jewish sword of all the foes of the Jews; hence murder has become the sole means of achieving this beauty. In searching for this beauty, the Zionists have simplified the first teachings of Zionism, so that they are close to the teachings of the church and political reality, which rely on terrorism. Under these teachings, since most of people are barbarians, the best way to rule them is through violence and terrorism, rather than through democracy or social debates. The wise men can impose absolute racial discrimination, because the world is divided into savages and the chosen few, who have the right to govern the entire world. Thus the Zionists do not simply talk about the kingdom of Jerusalem, the Promised Land, or Utopia, they believe that they have the right to rule the whole world.  As we have already discussed, the Zionists believe that this can only be achieved through murder and war. Indeed, it is argued that war is the beginning and the end, and that it is the way of the strong, while politics is for the weak. The wise men of Zion found their beliefs on history and human experience-they believe that people were originally ruled by brutal, blind force and later by law, which they see as being one and the same thing. Zionism expresses three facts: first, that brutality is an innate part of human nature; secondly, Zionism accepts the brutal side of human history and does not recognize the enlightenment, which emphasizes the right of all peoples to live peacefully. It does not even approach the humanitarian ideas of Russell, Albert Einstein, and Karl Marx, instead it refers to the pre-human phase or the "human cattle" society, where man was ruled solely by instinct, far away from the rational development phases of humanity. Thus Zionism adopts the use of blind instinct and refers to the man of the primitive era, where he was ruled by instinct, while it disregards the development of human societies, rationally, ethically and culturally; and thirdly, because Zionism disregards the development of the human society, it equates modern law with the natural laws of brutal force, thus completing its circle of darkness.  Zionism epitomizes the use of war instead of politics, persecution instead of debate, instinct instead of reason, the old instead of the new, and the Jews instead of all others. As they have said, "We are the source of terrorism everywhere, and all people belonging to various origins and faiths are keen on serving our goals." They state that their policy is one of force and double-dealing because they can see that success can be achieved by force, especially force which is necessary for the politician who must depend upon his genius, violence and cunning. Zionism does not only adopt the use of terrorism, war and force, it also disdains all that is considered to be humane and ethical, thus it glorifies double-dealing and cunning, and considers them innate qualities for the genius. Such a philosophy binds humanity with evil, sheds blood and denies the human standards, which confirms the unity of human society, the development of reason and the promotion of the human culture. This is because racialism denies humanity, sheds blood, monopolizes the human qualities, and generally does not recognize humanity, except as an inferior standard. Ben Gurion rationalized and justified terrorism when he said that the rifle was invented to kill others and that the soldier is the means to carry this out, and that this is the case just as water is for drinking and air is for breathing. Furthermore, that "Armed and powerful people are to be considered as a danger against themselves as well as others, especially when they are more powerful than the others, consequently we should exterminate them. This is the mission of the Hagana members who must always be merciless, bearing in mind that man has never been an angel, but consists merely of flesh and blood, that he may misuse his powers unless he is always under control." Ben Gurion has revived the teachings of Zion’s wise men, and he has rationalized these teachings, proposing that the armed man is a natural phenomenon that develops just as all other natural phenomena do. He teaches that arms are a natural part of the universe, and that the fighter grows as naturally as the plants; this is an idea that is similar in many ways to the belief in the law of the jungle. On another level, he discusses the political economy of force, which, he argues, will turn upon its creator as well as society unless it is channelled through carefully chosen methods, such as terrorism. He proposes that such a policy will achieve balance in the society which otherwise risks being destroyed. This is similar to the power of sexual energy, which can cause negative and destructive psychiatric symptoms, unless it is released. Consequently, in order to preserve both the body and soul, the use of violence is deemed to be a necessity. Respectively, the means to control this energy is through a ’superpower’, which does not suppress violence but rather systematically unleashes it. Thus, according to Ben Gurion, the State is the instrument to control and channel violence to the right path, that, although violence should be regulated, it is essential to the existence of the State.  This philosophy considers violence to be a natural instinct and murder a natural necessity, that man cannot achieve a healthy balance unless he releases his destructive potential through the act of killing. It is interesting to note here that Ben Gurion has ignored the possibility of releasing this latent energy through other means, such as sports, arts and community work. The reasoning here is flawed because it does not give any investigation into other possibilities, rather it ignores them because they do not suit the desired objective, the supremacy of the Jews and the annihilation of all other races. Despite this flawed philosophy, the Zionist ideology is able to permeate daily life with continual violence, soldiers and the importance of the State. Hagana itself is a terrorist organization based on its own political and economic principles. A predicament for Zionism … read more »

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Question:

What Makes Tics Tick? Clues Found in Tourette Twins’ Caudates August 1996 For the first time, scientists have a neurobiological explanation for the variation in severity of tics in Tourette Syndrome. Researchers at the National Institute of Mental Health have traced such symptom differences to "supersensitivity" of certain neurotransmitter receptors in the brain structure responsible for carrying out automatic behaviors. They suggest that this dysfunction may underlie the compulsion to act out the sudden movements and vocalizations that characterize Tourette Syndrome, which affects about 100,000 Americans with its full-blown form and up to 0.5% of the population with milder symptoms. The researchers report on their findings in the August 30th issue of Science. In a brain imaging study of identical twins differently affected by the disorder, Daniel Weinberger, M.D., Steven Wolf, M.D., and colleagues in the NIMH Clinical Brain Disorders Branch found that binding to D2 dopamine receptors in the caudate nucleus was higher in the sibling with the more severe symptoms. "Strikingly, the degree to which the twins differed in this caudate D-2 binding predicted almost absolutely their differences in tic severity," said Weinberger. "This also likely explains the ebb and flow of tics experienced over the course of Tourette Syndrome and its overlap with obsessive compulsive disorder. "While we know that genetics plays an important role in transmission of Tourette Syndrome, the fact that identical twins show differences in symptom severity suggests that environmental influences modify the clinical expression of the disorder," he explained. "We studied identical twins discordant for such symptom severity to control for normal genetic variation in brain function." Although previous studies comparing unrelated Tourette patients with unaffected persons had failed to show differences in dopamine system function, the NIMH investigators were spurred by the fact that Tourette symptoms respond to drugs like haloperidol that block D2 dopamine receptors. They used a radioactive tracer drug, IBZM (iodobenzamide), that similarly blocks D2 receptors, and a SPECT* (single-photon emission computed tomography) scanner to image dopamine binding in five identical twin pairs with the disorder. In each case, the differences were observed in the head of the caudate nucleus, but not in the adjacent putamen, suggesting that D2 caudate binding accounted for almost all of the symptomatic variance within each twin pair. Previously, preoccupation with the motoric aspects of Tourette Syndrome had led researchers to search for clues in the putamen, according to Weinberger. Subtle changes in receptor availability in one small area appear to explain rather large differences in clinical presentation, say the researchers. Functional brain imaging studies of OCD (obsessive compulsive disorder), which often occurs along with Tourette Syndrome, also implicate a brain circuit that includes the head of the caudate nucleus, along with areas in the frontal and cingulate cortex. Thus, the new NIMH finding adds to evidence that the disorders are "overlapping neurobehavioral conditions," suggest the researchers. They speculate that the caudate nucleus may be related to the compulsive component of tics, whereas the dopamine dysfunction there may be the "common link between the ideational and motor components of Tourette Syndrome." Other NIMH researchers participating in the study included: Drs. Douglas Jones, Michael Knable, Thomas Hyde, Richard Coppola, Kan Sam Lee, and Julia Gorey. Twin subjects were recruited by the Tourette Syndrome Association, Inc., which also provided partial funding for the study. Additional information and b-roll are available from the association (718-224-2999). Information provided by the NIMH. *The SPECT scanner employs radiation detectors to get a fix on the location in the brain of a tracer drug. Unlike other similar techniques, such as PET (positron emission tomography), SPECT uses a tracer with a long half-life, making possible studies such as this one, which involved a prolonged series of scans over a 4-hour period. http://www.mhsource.com/hy/tic.html

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Hi Elaine, http://www.dystonia-foundation.org/defined/forms.asp This is a link to they Dystonia Research Foundation website. You can check your symptoms with Ormandibular or Meige These are focal forms of Dystonia, which is a movement disorder. These are sometimes caused from side effects from certain medications. I have Blepharospasm which affects the eyes and Meige which affects the face. Facial tics and Meige are very similar. The best type of doctor for diagnosing would be a Movement Disorder Specialist. I was watching Oprah the other day, it was about Tourettes. It was an excellent show. I was very interested in the similaraties of finding things that we can do to get a rest from the movements (tics) they showed a girl who can act and sing on stage tic free. The other things were how we feel inside living and coping with this. The show came about from the book "Icy Sparks" which talks about emotions. Sounds like a great book. Please come back and let us know how you are doing. Best Wishes, Mindy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hi, I was doing a search online, and obtained a reference to this newsgroup for possible help. I have Tourette Syndrome and have been on different medications over the years. Recently, I was taking Prolxin. When I stopped, a new tic appeared (which is common with TS — for tics to come and go and change). This tic was in my face though and hasn’t followed the usual course of tics I have had in the past. I am concerned that this is not part of TS but rather Tardive Dyskensia caused from taking Prolixin. At this point, I am not sure what to do, or what can be done. I contacted the doctor who prescribed the Prolixin who is located in Houston.  (I live in Albuquerque). He said I should make an appointment to come in for an exam. While this may be the best thing to do, I am concerned, since he was the one who prescribed the Prolixin to begin with. My symptoms include movements in my face, particularly the right side of my face in my jaw and check area. It has become quite painful for my jaw. It is a facial contortion that somewhat looks like chewing, and also smacking with my lips. I have read some information that the earlier it is detected the better the chance it will disappear. I don’t know if there is a treatment for this or not. I also have started taking Vitamin E, as I ran across this information as well as something that could potential help. I would appreciate any advice that I can get from anyone who has information regarding this. thanks, elaine

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Hi, I was doing a search online, and obtained a reference to this newsgroup for possible help. I would appreciate any advice that I can get from anyone who has information regarding this. thanks, elaine

Hi Elaine, I had a no no tic for a few years and can really sympathize with you.  Tics are so exhausting and embarrassing.   Onset started after taking medication for an ulcer.   The prescrition’s name is unknown. I only made the connection between onset and the medication years later. I was never treated for the tic.  It went away on its own.   I do have essential tremor and Dystonia.   Please check out the following sites for more http://www.wfubmc.edu/surg-sci/ns/tremor.html http://www.parkinsons-information-exchange-network-online.com/archive… Regards, Gene

Response:

Hi, I was doing a search online, and obtained a reference to this newsgroup for possible help. I have Tourette Syndrome and have been on different medications over the years. Recently, I was taking Prolxin. When I stopped, a new tic appeared (which is common with TS — for tics to come and go and change). This tic was in my face though and hasn’t followed the usual course of tics I have had in the past. I am concerned that this is not part of TS but rather Tardive Dyskensia caused from taking Prolixin. At this point, I am not sure what to do, or what can be done. I contacted the doctor who prescribed the Prolixin who is located in Houston.  (I live in Albuquerque). He said I should make an appointment to come in for an exam. While this may be the best thing to do, I am concerned, since he was the one who prescribed the Prolixin to begin with. My symptoms include movements in my face, particularly the right side of my face in my jaw and check area. It has become quite painful for my jaw. It is a facial contortion that somewhat looks like chewing, and also smacking with my lips. I have read some information that the earlier it is detected the better the chance it will disappear. I don’t know if there is a treatment for this or not. I also have started taking Vitamin E, as I ran across this information as well as something that could potential help. I would appreciate any advice that I can get from anyone who has information regarding this. thanks, elaine

Response:

What a great group! Thanks for the quick response and the links you have all recommended. This is the kind of doc I went to for my Tourettes. It is Dr. Jankovic at Baylor in Houston. It is a Movement Disorders clinic. Unfortunately, he is also the one who prescribed the Prolixin. I am currently trying to get an appointment with him again to try to figure out what is going on. He also mentioned botox treatment. Has this been successful for any of

you? Several months ago, I heard that someone had gone to Dr. Jandovic in Houston, also for Tourettes and received botox injections.  Apparently, it is being done but I never heard anything else from this young man as to success.   Botox is also being used for tics with success. Dr. Jankovic has a good reputation.   I’ve heard from one lady here locally that saw him but she did not care for his bedside manner.  She hasn’t been happy with any of her doctors, though.  She has Blepharospasm symptoms but apparently keeps getting different diagnoses depending on where she goes. Shirley

Response:

What a great group! Thanks for the quick response and the links you have all recommended. This is the kind of doc I went to for my Tourettes. It is Dr. Jankovic at Baylor in Houston. It is a Movement Disorders clinic. Unfortunately, he is also the one who prescribed the Prolixin. I am currently trying to get an appointment with him again to try to figure out what is going on.

Dr. Jankovic, apparently, is one of the top in his field.  He has an excellent reputation. He also mentioned botox treatment. Has this been successful for any of you?

Botox is used on  focal dystonias.  Many patients have had good results with it.   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Several months ago, I heard that someone had gone to Dr. Jandovic in Shirley

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Hi Mindy, It has been very helpful! I am grateful for the information. Positive thinking – BINGO Stress Management and Humor are the best medicines. I can’t forget God and prayer, is #1

Yes, I can see where all of these would be important. I have noticed stress plays a big part in the disorder. It does in Tourettes as well, but seems to be more so with this. the eye twitch you refer to I might describe as a soft fluttering feeling.

right, that is what I a good example… Our eye spasms are involuntary but they are hard blinks, sometimes forecful. Other times they close and will not open on command. These type of spasms are very noticable. The eye and facial spasms are extremely hard to suppress.

Tics from tourettes are involuntary as well, but there is this sense at some level that you "should" be able to stop the movement. I feel this as well with whatever is going on with my face. Even though realistically it doesn’t feel like I can stop it, it also doesn’t feel as involuntary as the eye twitch described above. It also seems much harder to suppress than tics that I normally have with TS. It also feels like it is getting worse. I don’t know if that is from stress or maybe from being off the offending medication for a longer period of time. Its very confusing! And painful… Just like TS, when I do try to suppress it, it is only short lived. It seems to be more prevalent in frequency as well compared to the tics I have with TS. That is exactly what happens. It would help if I laid down closed my eyes, opened my mouthly slightly, relaxing my jaw and my face. I would take slow deep breaths and focused on relaxing each part of my body from my head to my toes (very slowly, as I said the words to my self, relax your head, etc.) and don’t move on until each part is relaxed.

I will try this as well. It would be nice to get some relief. Dr.Jankovic is well known. I don’t know anything about him personally. I go to Dr. Bressman in Manhattan, she is an excellent doctor. She has tried me on many meds that didn’t agree with me at all. These types of disorders require lot’s of patience from the doctor as well as the patient to see which meds. or combination of meds. that will help. Life would be much easier if we all responded the same way to these meds. but, we don’t, unfortunately.

This is true for TS as well…except there really are no meds that really work with TS. Some will reduce tics, but none will make them go away. Unless for example, you take a neuroleptic in a high dose. In that case your tics would probably subside, but you wouldn’t be able to think! I’m pretty sure Dr.J. is one of the very dedicated doctors of this field. It’s important you have confidence in your doctor. Does he listen carefully and take his time with you? These things are also important.

I have only seen him once, last December. And he seemed pretty good. I e-mailed him about my frustrations of calling his office and not being able to get an appointment till December, and he wrote and said he would have his secretary arrange to overbook me on a day soon. So I was pleased to hear this. For a long time Dr.Bressman had me as "Meige vs. tics"  She said it is so similar.

I can see that! I think that has been a big part of my confusion. They are so similar it is hard to tell them apart. She would ask if I felt the need to blink, before I blinked. It was hard for me to answer because it was always changing.

It is common with TS to have "premonitory" feelings before a tic. That is probably why she was asking you this. For example, I have a tic that is in my torso. Inevitably, when I get in the car to go somewhere, I "have to" tic. I twist my upper torso from left to right repeatedly, until it "feels right". And I can always tell before I tic that it is going to happen. If anything, the tic or problem with my face now feels more like "a habit". That somehow it has become a habit for my jaw and mouth to contort about every 30 seconds or so. When I sleep, I don’t have it. I wake up in the morning and think, if I try really hard today, maybe it won’t come back. And it always does. Seems to get worse as the day progresses as well. I am hoping it is not damaging my jaw. It feels like it could be. It hurts into the jaw bone. I will be seeing my dentist next week, so I will ask if any damage has occurred. She said the treatment is the same. I was getting botox around my eyes and in my jaw.  It did help me.. How long it helps varies with each person. About 2 yrs ago it stopped helping. Which worked out fine, cause presently I am on medication that is helping.

What medication is that? Are you experiencing any side-effects from it? When you do something creative that you are totally engrossed in, you get a reprieve from your tics. Stress makes them worse. During sleep, they are usually much better Is this true with dystonia as well? Another BINGO Many with dystonia we found from our discussions hum or sing or make some type of sound.

I haven’t found that doing something creative helps alleviate the facial movements at all. Actually, that was probably my first clue that it might not be a "normal tic" that I experience with TS. I haven’t tried humming or singing though…definitely worth a try! Also, many have problems breathing they tend to subside when the spasms are helped with medicine. Does this happen with TS?

No, breathing problems are not common with TS. I can see where I tend to breathe more shallow now because of this facial tic. It’s kind of like your whole body is taking a toll because of the tic. Kind of like your whole body tenses up, which then makes your breathing worse. But on a more physical level, like the feeling of asthma, I have not experienced that. Thanks for all the help! I really appreciate it. I am trying to learn as much as I can about this before I see Dr. Jankovic in the next couple of weeks. Have you had Meige all of your life of is it fairly recent? Do you know what caused it? thanks again, elaine

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It has been very helpful! I am grateful for the information.

Me too )) It also feels like it is getting worse. I don’t know if that is from stress or maybe from being off the offending medication for a longer period of time. Its very confusing! And painful…

It might be a good idea if you write down all these feelings and symptoms because they are easy to forget. Take them with you when you go to the doctor. Leave a space between your questions, fill in with his replies. My sypmtoms started 8yrs. ago, it was my 40th birthday present (Ha Ha) (( I don’t know what caused it. My first few visits I took a small tape recorder with me, along with my husband and sister-in-law. None of us could have remembered everything, and we all walk out hearing something a little different – LOL For the pain, you can try moist warm heat or ice, you will get to know which makes you feel better. Don’t chew gum, that will give your jaw more of a work-out. You can suck on hard candy. That sucking action works the reverse of chewing. The dentist made me a mouth piece, nothing fancy, inexpensive. It’s clear rubber, molded from my teeth. I asked him to make the back a little thicker.  I wore it mostly during the night. There were times when I needed it for driving (sounds strange) It really is very painful, and no one can understand how exhausting it can be, unless you’ve experienced it. Really all the dystonia movements are painful and exhausting. TS tics are not painful or exhausting? This is true for TS as well…except there really are no meds that really work with TS. Some will reduce tics, but none will make them go away.

BINGO – they don’t know the cause, and they don’t have a cure.  Unless for example, you take a neuroleptic in a high dose.

My doctor told me Never Ever take any neuroleptics or dopamine blockers. There are lists of meds. that can cause dystonia. But strangely enough many on that list are prescribed to help dystonia. Let’s hope and pray if yours came from that med. it will subside and go away. I was given meds that gave me crazy side effects like making my arms fling about, and my head shake, etc. They did go away when the med. was out of my system. I e-mailed him about my frustrations of calling his office and not being able to get an appointment till

It does get frustrating, between the doses, and symptoms, there was always questions. I ended up goint to a psychiatrist in my neighborhood who is board certified in psychiatry and neurology to monitor my meds. He was in contact with my Movement Specialist, and I don’t take anything unless she ok’s it. When I sleep, I don’t have it. I wake up in the morning and think, if I try really hard today, maybe it won’t come back. And it always does. Seems to get worse as the day progresses as well.

Dystonia spasms go away while sleeping. It helps to get a good nights sleep, and a nap in the afternoon. I remember waking up with those exact feelings. What medication is that? Are you experiencing any side-effects from it?

I’m taking Parsitan, (My psych.does not monitor this med) It’s not sold in the States. I get it from Canada. I notice some short term memory loss. I haven’t found that doing something creative helps alleviate the facial movements at all.

I was able to crotchet, gardening, be on the computer, these would alleviate the movements, most of the time. I actually thought I could re-train my brain by doing something that kept my eyes open, I would stay at it for hours, days, months -LOL I still keep my hopes up that my brain will work around the mis-fired neurotransmitters.  Positive thinking LOL I can see where I tend to breathe more shallow now because of this facial tic. It’s kind of like your whole body is taking a toll because of the tic. Kind of like your whole body tenses up, which then makes your breathing worse.

I think you hit the nail on the head. If you pracitce deep breathing excersises everyday, it will automatically kick in when you need it. It takes a long time, but the everyday benefits are definately worth it. Not only for us, for everyone. It’s great for mind and body. Thanks for all the help! I really appreciate it. I am trying to learn as much as I can about this before I see Dr. Jankovic in the next couple of weeks.

I’m really enjoying our chit-chat Marie and Shirley have the same type of dystonia as I do. Hey Marie & Shirley, we could use your 2 cents thanks again, elaine

thank you, Elaine, Mindy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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What a great group! Thanks for the quick response and the links you have all recommended. I had a no no tic for a few years and can really sympathize with you.  Tics are so exhausting and embarrassing.

yes. they sure can be! it is a bizarre disorder… I was never treated for the tic.  It went away on its own. I do have essential tremor and Dystonia.

I am hoping that I caught this soon enough and it will go away…positive thinking! It is interesting that you have essential tremor. When I went to see a new specialist last December regarding my Tourettes, he did a standard neurological evaluation and also told me I had essential tremor. I had known for years that my hands would shake for no apparent reason. Primarily when I tried to do fine detail work. Interestingly enough, I am a graphic designer. Most of my work now is done on computer. But in the past, and still when I paint or illustrate, if I am really focused, my hands don’t seem to shake. Yet, if I am doing something "non-creative" like trying to screw in a screw or solder something, they shake so much it is hard to be effective. My hands have been this way so long that I just thought it was me…so I was surprised when my doc had a term to describe it. You can check your symptoms with Ormandibular or Meige…

<snip thanks for the links… one of my questions is that in the description of these disorders, it describes it many times as being a "spasm" What is happening with me, doesn’t feel like a spasm. We sometimes have discussions like this on Tourettes lists that I am on, so I am sure you have discussed how these movements "feel"… To me a spasm feels more involuntary. For example, an eye twitch. This is a common experience that most people experience at different times in their life. The muscle twitches, fairly rapidly and the person has absolutely no control over it. Is that what dystonia is like? That is not what is happening for me. This movement is actually very similar to the tics I experience with Tourettes — if I really try, I can somewhat suppress this movement. The thing that feels different with the facial movements I am describing to you compared to the tics I normally feel with TS is that it is more difficult to suppress the movement. Just like TS, when I do try to suppress it, it is only short lived. It seems to be more prevalent in frequency as well compared to the tics I have with TS. The best type of doctor for diagnosing would be a Movement Disorder Specialist.

This is the kind of doc I went to for my Tourettes. It is Dr. Jankovic at Baylor in Houston. It is a Movement Disorders clinic. Unfortunately, he is also the one who prescribed the Prolixin. I am currently trying to get an appointment with him again to try to figure out what is going on. He also mentioned botox treatment. Has this been successful for any of you? I was watching Oprah the other day, it was about Tourettes. It was an excellent show.

Yes, it was very well done! There were a lot of shows in the past that only showed the sensationalized aspects of Tourettes, so it was nice to see one that was accurate for a change! I was very interested in the similaraties of finding things that we can do to get a rest from the movements (tics) they showed a girl who can act and sing on stage tic free.

this seems to be fairly common with TS. When you do something creative that you are totally engrossed in, you get a reprieve from your tics. Stress makes them worse. During sleep, they are usually much better. Is this true with dystonia as well? Thanks again Gene and Mindy for your help! sincerely, elaine

Response:

I am French, though I don’t understand all the details of your conversation, I am very interested in reading your messages. I’ve been suffering from what is called "hemispasme" in French for about 8 years. Obviously it is not genetic but the symptoms are very similar to what I can read in some of your messages. It started slighly with my right eye as I was expecting my fourth child. No doctors could really help me, giving me neuroleptic which had all the possible effects on my body except on my eye. 2 years ago, I was about leaving my job I love so much, I couldn’t bear the spasms which occured every 30 seconds all day long. Though my life was harmonious, however I felt exhausted. My doctor sent me to a French specialist who started Botox. I have injections every three months, the medicine comes from the US and is not entirely recognized in France as it is considered as a "treatment for comfort !!". Besides, it is very expensive. I’ve had a new life since that time, though the right side of my face has changed a bit -people often ask me why I am so tired !. I perhaps look tired, but I feel very enthusiastic inside. I am 40 now and I wonder how long Botox will continue to help me. Have a nice day; Jo

Question:

No recomendation yet, meeting with Doc next week… — Dan ICQ 108553906

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Folks,          I’ve been on the Paxil for about five weeks now,  feeling better but really experiencing the sexual side effects of the Paxil. I have heard that Serzone gives you all the benefits of Paxil and No sexual side effects.         Can anyone respond both pro and con for switching to Serzone. I’d like to get my drive/libido back. Also if you have made the switch from Paxil how did you do it, were you weaned off the Paxil slowly or just a cold turkey switch to the serzone. Thanks in advance for any and all responses. — Dan ICQ 108553906 serzone does indeed have less sexual interference then the ssri’s-switching is best done by a slow taper off the paxil and once on around 5 mg a day for a week just switching over to a small dose of serzone-initially you may feel fatigued and spacey for a few days to a few weeks if you go too fast upward in the titration-what has your doc recomended? LM

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Folks,           I’ve been on the Paxil for about five weeks now,  feeling better but really experiencing the sexual side effects of the Paxil. I have heard that Serzone gives you all the benefits of Paxil and No sexual side effects.          Can anyone respond both pro and con for switching to Serzone. I’d like to get my drive/libido back. Also if you have made the switch from Paxil how did you do it, were you weaned off the Paxil slowly or just a cold turkey switch to the serzone. Thanks in advance for any and all responses. — Dan ICQ 108553906

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Folks,          I’ve been on the Paxil for about five weeks now,  feeling better but really experiencing the sexual side effects of the Paxil. I have heard that Serzone gives you all the benefits of Paxil and No sexual side effects.         Can anyone respond both pro and con for switching to Serzone. I’d like to get my drive/libido back. Also if you have made the switch from Paxil how did you do it, were you weaned off the Paxil slowly or just a cold turkey switch to the serzone. Thanks in advance for any and all responses. — Dan ICQ 108553906

serzone does indeed have less sexual interference then the ssri’s-switching is best done by a slow taper off the paxil and once on around 5 mg a day for a week just switching over to a small dose of serzone-initially you may feel fatigued and spacey for a few days to a few weeks if you go too fast upward in the titration-what has your doc recomended? LM

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Danny, I didn’t go from Paxil to Serzone but did go Zoloft-Wellbutrin-Serzone, which I now have been on for about five months.  With the Wellbutrin I ramped off, and then began the "starter pack" of Serzone.  But even the lowest dosage I found intolerable at first – it upset my stomach and made me feel like I had drank ten cups of coffee.  I had to break the beginning pills in half to make it comfortable and move up from there.  Once you’re on it it’s fine, but it’s bumpy getting there. As far as libido or sexual side effects there were none . . . . at first. However (and this could just be me, obviously) at about the four month mark I did start to have problems, similar to what the Zoloft was doing.  It disperses my concentration to the point where it’s very difficult to "finish" in bed.  I don’t know why it took this long to kick in, but it did. I’m currently at 150mg twice a day, and at one point my doc tried to increase it to 400 total.  That DIDN’T work, made me feel like a zombie and totally screwed with my physical coordination, so I went back to 300.  But I’m seriously thinking of ramping off it entirely, not just because of the sexual problem but other side effects as well.  I’ll call my doc and talk about it. Good luck to you, however, and don’t take my experience as a negative for trying Serzone.  I’ve noticed on the other meds many times I have an unusual reaction which just proves we all react differently to some degree. Wayne

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Folks,           I’ve been on the Paxil for about five weeks now,  feeling better but really experiencing the sexual side effects of the Paxil. I have heard that Serzone gives you all the benefits of Paxil and No sexual side effects.          Can anyone respond both pro and con for switching to Serzone. I’d like to get my drive/libido back. Also if you have made the switch from Paxil how did you do it, were you weaned off the Paxil slowly or just a cold turkey switch to the serzone. Thanks in advance for any and all responses. — Dan ICQ 108553906

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Question:

It’s a little late on this thread for advice about bleeding, but I do want to remind you to keep up with your vitamins.  Lack of vitamins can slow clotting. Also, if you think you may give in and cut yourself, or if you recently have, DON’T take any aspirin! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – my arm won’t stop bleeding. it’s been at least 4 hours and it was under pressure but it still won’t stop.maybe my blood is thinning or something. the therapist from home hasn’t called yet. it is so ugly! i finished my work for tonight. no pressure or nothing and i still don’t feel right. well, my effexor dose is rising again tomorrow. though i don’t even know if it’s effective. oh well. i’m trying not to break my promise (the deal) i am trying. but it’s hard. les.

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my arm won’t stop bleeding. it’s been at least 4 hours and it was under pressure but it still won’t stop.maybe my blood is thinning or something. the therapist from home hasn’t called yet. it is so ugly! i finished my work for tonight. no pressure or nothing and i still don’t feel right. well, my effexor dose is rising again tomorrow. though i don’t even know if it’s effective. oh well. i’m trying not to break my promise (the deal) i am trying. but it’s hard. les.

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my arm won’t stop bleeding. it’s been at least 4 hours and it was under pressure but it still won’t stop.maybe my blood is thinning or something. the therapist from home hasn’t called yet.

if you’re losing too much blood, go to the emergency room!! it is so ugly! i finished my work for tonight. no pressure or nothing and i still don’t feel right. well, my effexor dose is rising again tomorrow. though i don’t even know if it’s effective. oh well. i’m trying not to break my promise (the deal) i am trying. but it’s hard.

Hang in there. You always have us to talk to. Sophie — http://grayarea.diaryland.com

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my arm won’t stop bleeding.

it may ooze for some time depending on how deeply you cut it and with what-you used a knife? too dul it does too much tissue damage-this will scar. you are taking effexor and klonopin now? what happened to the seroquel? If you want to stop cutting you will-not a moment sooner the you decide to-but know there is a price to pay for it-that price is you will feel worse and it will scar-you are duping yourself into thinking it will feel better-it does but only for the moment-then the gult and verification of your worthlessness sets in-it becomes a cycle and a bad habit-you can stop and most likely will when you become busy in an environment that is stimulating as oppossed to boring and scary. But you can only search for this-it won’t come to you. You are working yourself up now and will crash into depression to slow it down-try and moderate-try and get busy-rent a movie listen to music-visit a friend-call one-call your dad-distract yourself from you pain-it will pass. this is temporary-think of how well you felt just a few short months ago in the summer-place yourself in the thoughts-be there-you will get there again. It semester end-exams and then going home-this seems to bring out this stress response in you-it will pass LM

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -salarmy4me wrote:

I am trying Serzone and Visken and am on only the second day. Visken is a beta-blocker with anti-anxiety and   anti-depressant properties. The initial testing of visken with ADs showed good results. People recovered faster than with   antidepressants alone. Visken has to be used only with certain antidepressants, though. Only Paxil, Prozac, Effexor, and   Serzone have been augmented. Of course, the combo has to be studied more, but maybe I am the guinea pig for the   combo. Dr. Bob’s discussion on this showed that 15 mg is the right dose: 5mg three times a day. The side effect profile is   benign. Interestingly, I had a burst of crying in joy today. I never had that with serzone alone, but perhaps its actually the   Serzone that has finally kicked in. If anyone is interested, I will tell you more about the augmentation strategy. * Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping.  Smart is Beautiful

I’m interested…I tried Serzone but it didn’t help with my OCD. Am now on Effexor-XR. What is Visken? Thanks!

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I am trying Serzone and Visken and am on only the second day. Visken is a beta-blocker with anti-anxiety and   anti-depressant properties. The initial testing of visken with ADs showed good results. People recovered faster than with   antidepressants alone. Visken has to be used only with certain antidepressants, though. Only Paxil, Prozac, Effexor, and   Serzone have been augmented. Of course, the combo has to be studied more, but maybe I am the guinea pig for the   combo. Dr. Bob’s discussion on this showed that 15 mg is the right dose: 5mg three times a day. The side effect profile is   benign. Interestingly, I had a burst of crying in joy today. I never had that with serzone alone, but perhaps its actually the   Serzone that has finally kicked in. If anyone is interested, I will tell you more about the augmentation strategy. * Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping.  Smart is Beautiful

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