Question:

Hi  i always rinse and brush. But i also take        acidophilus,and plain yogurt as it contains live cultures  .it really help and it cut down on fungas . Pricilla.

Response:

I am still trying to figure out how to get rid of the sore throat I have had for the past three years. I would love to get rid of the discomfort, but I have pretty much accepted that I am stuck with it. I have a problem with post nasal drip. I would certainly be open to suggestions for a remedy. Pam

Response:

Brush your teeth after each use – You, your throat, and Dentist will all be happier! Tim Washington State

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dear Readers: I know that someone has probably already asked this first question, so hopefully you won’t get too bored and will be kind enough to answer if you can.  :-) Are any of you using flovent and finding that you have a problem with sore throats?  I know that this medication can cause yeast infections (if I remember correctly, anyway).  I used to use the aerosol version (the "puffer" version), but my throat was so bad with that stuff that I started using the diskus version.  I rinse regularly, but obviously it isn’t enough.  I figure I probably just don’t have the lung power to suck all that stuff down, and so some of it just sits there and does mean things.  :-)  Does anyone know of some nice home remedy to deal with the soreness?  It’s starting to get sore again, and I don’t want to go off the medication since things have been getting worse lately (and not to mention the fact that people keep giving me heck for going off the medication). I’ve got another question just out of curiosity.  Has anyone had a chest xray done, and then been told that you have granulomas and calcification?  I was told that I have that in my lungs, and that it’s something that can happen to people who have had asthma for a long time (I’ve had problems for most of my life).  I thought it was strange – I thought people only got stuff like that from having things like TB, pneumonia, and whatever else I don’t know about.  I guess asthma is one of the things I didn’t know about.  So now I’m curious to see if other long time asthma sufferers have the same kind of thing going on. Thanks for reading! Vicky

Response:

Brush your teeth after each use – You, your throat, and Dentist will all be happier!

Interesting suggestion.  Now that I think about it, I always brush my teeth first and then use the inhaler.  (don’t know why)  Maybe I’ll start reversing the procedure to see if that helps.  Thanks! Vicky

Response:

That is what I do. — CBI, M.D.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Brush your teeth after each use – You, your throat, and Dentist will all be happier! Interesting suggestion.  Now that I think about it, I always brush my teeth first and then use the inhaler.  (don’t know why)  Maybe I’ll start reversing the procedure to see if that helps.  Thanks! Vicky

Response:

My mom started using Flovent and Serevent last week because she was coughing and wheezing something AWFUL. The inhalers really helped with that. Now she’s hoarse, VERY hoarse. I read that that’s a common side effect of Flovent. While it certainly beats  not being able to take a breath without coughing, etc., it’s still uncomfortable for her. Are there some natural things she could try that DOESN’T involve any more medication? I already told her to rinse her mouth after she finishes the inhaler sessions. (This doesn’t eradicate the good effects of them, does it?) Susan

Response:

I had sore throat and hoarseness (even though I did the mouth rinsing) until I read a posting in this group to always use a spacer.  Soon after I started doing that consistently, the problem disappeared.

Response:

I use Flovent 110. I do not  use the puffer supplied with the Flovent; I use a spacer instead.  Also I rinse my mouth thoroughly after use.  Consequently I never experienced either a sore throat or a yeast infection. Israel Weber

Response:

I use Flovent 110. I do not  use the puffer supplied with the Flovent; I use a spacer instead.  Also I rinse my mouth thoroughly after use.  Consequently I never experienced either a sore throat or a yeast infection. Israel Weber

Wow, those of you who don’t get sore throats are very lucky.  I rinse as much as possible,  and I still get sore throats.  I’ve got a bit of a useless immune system, though, so maybe that makes a difference. Anyway, I just bought some unpasteurized yogurt, so we’ll see if that helps.  It at least feels very soothing!  I have read and also heard from some people that this kind of yogurt helps restore proper balance to certain types of naturally occuring things (such as yeast).  I’m trying to avoid drugging myself for the sore throats because this is an ongoing problem, and the last thing I want is drug resistant yeast infections. Vicky

Response:

You didn’t mention if you were using an extender (Aerochamber) with the aerosol version of Flovent.  I had persistent hoarseness & sore throat until I started using an extender.  Personally, I’ve  found that the diskus versions are harder to use–the powder clings to the nasopharynx instead of going into the airways.  You still need to rinse thoroughly with an extender to prevent thrush… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dear Readers: I know that someone has probably already asked this first question, so hopefully you won’t get too bored and will be kind enough to answer if you can.  :-) Are any of you using flovent and finding that you have a problem with sore throats?  I know that this medication can cause yeast infections (if I remember correctly, anyway).  I used to use the aerosol version (the "puffer" version), but my throat was so bad with that stuff that I started using the diskus version.  I rinse regularly, but obviously it isn’t enough.  I figure I probably just don’t have the lung power to suck all that stuff down, and so some of it just sits there and does mean things.  :-)  Does anyone know of some nice home remedy to deal with the soreness?  It’s starting to get sore again, and I don’t want to go off the medication since things have been getting worse lately (and not to mention the fact that people keep giving me heck for going off the medication). I’ve got another question just out of curiosity.  Has anyone had a chest xray done, and then been told that you have granulomas and calcification?  I was told that I have that in my lungs, and that it’s something that can happen to people who have had asthma for a long time (I’ve had problems for most of my life).  I thought it was strange – I thought people only got stuff like that from having things like TB, pneumonia, and whatever else I don’t know about.  I guess asthma is one of the things I didn’t know about.  So now I’m curious to see if other long time asthma sufferers have the same kind of thing going on. Thanks for reading! Vicky For me, the yeast infection manifested itself as a sore throat. I just thought I had a particularly persistent sore throat. A specialist looked as part of a unrelated exam and told me it was a yeast infection and perscribed stuff for it ( cleared up a case of athletes foot too). I’d get it checked out. Jerry Freedman,Jr — Creation took 6 days because God didn’t have an installed base Before you buy.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dear Readers: I know that someone has probably already asked this first question, so hopefully you won’t get too bored and will be kind enough to answer if you can.  :-) Are any of you using flovent and finding that you have a problem with sore throats?  I know that this medication can cause yeast infections (if I remember correctly, anyway).  I used to use the aerosol version (the "puffer" version), but my throat was so bad with that stuff that I started using the diskus version.  I rinse regularly, but obviously it isn’t enough.  I figure I probably just don’t have the lung power to suck all that stuff down, and so some of it just sits there and does mean things.  :-)  Does anyone know of some nice home remedy to deal with the soreness?  It’s starting to get sore again, and I don’t want to go off the medication since things have been getting worse lately (and not to mention the fact that people keep giving me heck for going off the medication). I’ve got another question just out of curiosity.  Has anyone had a chest xray done, and then been told that you have granulomas and calcification?  I was told that I have that in my lungs, and that it’s something that can happen to people who have had asthma for a long time (I’ve had problems for most of my life).  I thought it was strange – I thought people only got stuff like that from having things like TB, pneumonia, and whatever else I don’t know about.  I guess asthma is one of the things I didn’t know about.  So now I’m curious to see if other long time asthma sufferers have the same kind of thing going on. Thanks for reading! Vicky

For me, the yeast infection manifested itself as a sore throat. I just thought I had a particularly persistent sore throat. A specialist looked as part of a unrelated exam and told me it was a yeast infection and perscribed stuff for it ( cleared up a case of athletes foot too). I’d get it checked out. Jerry Freedman,Jr — Creation took 6 days because God didn’t have an installed base Before you buy.

Response:

Dear Readers: I know that someone has probably already asked this first question, so hopefully you won’t get too bored and will be kind enough to answer if you can.  :-) Are any of you using flovent and finding that you have a problem with sore throats?  I know that this medication can cause yeast infections (if I remember correctly, anyway).  I used to use the aerosol version (the "puffer" version), but my throat was so bad with that stuff that I started using the diskus version.  I rinse regularly, but obviously it isn’t enough.  I figure I probably just don’t have the lung power to suck all that stuff down, and so some of it just sits there and does mean things.  :-)  Does anyone know of some nice home remedy to deal with the soreness?  It’s starting to get sore again, and I don’t want to go off the medication since things have been getting worse lately (and not to mention the fact that people keep giving me heck for going off the medication). I’ve got another question just out of curiosity.  Has anyone had a chest xray done, and then been told that you have granulomas and calcification?  I was told that I have that in my lungs, and that it’s something that can happen to people who have had asthma for a long time (I’ve had problems for most of my life).  I thought it was strange – I thought people only got stuff like that from having things like TB, pneumonia, and whatever else I don’t know about.  I guess asthma is one of the things I didn’t know about.  So now I’m curious to see if other long time asthma sufferers have the same kind of thing going on. Thanks for reading! Vicky

Response:

Question:

I don’t know much about what melatonin would do, or have any authority in the medical area at all. This is widely hyped as a ‘natural’ sleep aid. A good write up on it can be found at:

http://www.hcrc.org/cgi-bin/mfs.cgi/20/web/u7/www11417/www/contrib/ac… cles/melaton.html I use melatonin once in a while.  If I’m having trouble sleeping I much prefer a combination of valerian, skullcap and passion flower.  You can’t take valerian every night though, so I only add that if I really need it or at a maximum of 3 nights a week.  You can take everyday the first week you use it or if you do not use it often (IOW if a break of several weeks occurs between usages) but don’t take it every day for longer than a week. Valerian is also a natural muscle relaxant.  If it were me, I’d use it every night for 7 nights and then 3 times a week thereafter if I had chronic muscle cramps.  It works quite well and you should find that you don’t actually need it every night after the first go.   Skullcap and passionflower can be used more often.  Skullcap is a lovely soothing herb that helps the nervous system as well as helping with sleep. I prefer to use melatonin only when traveling internationally or across several time zones.   Melatonin is a hormone produced by the body but the amount the body produces decreases with age. I have not found it to react with my asthma medications which include Flovent, Serevent, Singulair and Albuterol.   Loki

Response:

He’s probably thinking of Levbid – used for colonic spasm and such.

Response:

Ellis; thank you for your reply, I looked up some of the reactions of drugs I took, CECLOR,ASMACORT, PREDNISONE,AEROBID,VANCANASE, MEDROL, DELTASONE. HISMANOL, AND INTAL(THIS ONE JUST LOST ANY HELP AFTER OVER A YEAR ON IT.  hives, 43#  rapid gain wt. headaches and abdominal cramps, and fluid accumclations in large amounts.  the preventil-albuterol and the intal, accolate,  was good, the singular switch seemed o.k.     I also have tried over and over to use the flo-meter and can never get it over 140 course I havent blown up a bloon since I was a kid.     Because this doctor  is good enough to see me after I challenged the other one I am afraid to make waves     again thanks for the concern i will read the other comments as they help my attitude, glad i was older before I got this problem, really can’t complain as I had a good life. MRS ehoward

Response:

I don’t know much about what melatonin would do, or have any authority in the medical area at all.

This is widely hyped as a ‘natural’ sleep aid. A good write up on it can be found at: http://www.hcrc.org/cgi-bin/mfs.cgi/20/web/u7/www11417/www/contrib/ac…

Response:

For two years I took melatonin every day , I have asthma and was taking abuterol,x2 puffs, 4times a day and at night taking singular before bed. about three months ago I had over twenty attacts of sever muscular cramps in my rt. upper quadrant, so severe I was in tears.  My dr. put me on LIVBID and it corrected  the pain quickly, the day I started livbid i quit the melatonin.(took it to help sleep and my hair grew longer than ever in my whole life)  Now if I go off the livbid my pain returns in my right Quadrant  This pain has been an off again on again problem with me four or more years before I was diagnosed with asthma, say about 14 years and I have been through the standard upper, lower, etc  type exaimes.

Re: Pain in upper right quadrant; could be liver problems. There is a warning on Accolate (similar to Singulair) to notify doctor if this happens; liver function tests may be needed. Re: Singulair; this is a new drug that helps about 2/3 astmatics who take it. If it doesn’t help it shouldn’t be continued. Sometimes a smaller dose is prescribed; the 5 mg (child’s dose) instead of 10 mg adult dose. Older adults metabolize the drug more slowly. Re: albuterol 2 pf x4. New asthma guidelines indicate if you need more than 1 pf/day, inhaled steroids should be added or increased. You didn’t mention taking any inhaled steroids (Vanceril, Azmacort, Pulmicort, Flovent, Aerobid). These are the main treatment drugs for asthma. Another drug to try in your case is Atrovent inhaler. It’s also available as Combivent, a combination of Atrovent and albuterol. Re: LIVBID  I think you must have the name wrong. It isn’t listed in drug books and a web search came up with nothing. Re: melatonin–Here’s a link: http://209.67.220.19/mayo/9708/htm/melaton.htm Melatonin http://209.67.220.19/mayo/9708/htm/mela_1sb.htm side effects Re: leg cramps–you could have a potassium deficiency from the albuterol or other drugs. Be sure to eat lots of bananas and drink orange juice; and eat other fruits and vegetables. I would recommend reading up on asthma. A couple of good books are The Asthma Sourcebook by Francis Adams, MD  A new edition just came out. Dr. Adams is a pulmonologist specializing in asthma. Another good book by the same author is The Breathing Disorders Sourcebook. Both can be ordered at your bookstore or available at amazon.com online. By understanding asthma better, you can tell whether your doctor is treating it effectively. If you aren’t on a steroid inhaler, I would want to know why not. (Pulmicort or Flovent best) You might benefit from a 2nd opinion from a major asthma clinic or teaching hospital. Ellis   My asthma is chemically induced  and the list of – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – chemicals is extremely long, plus other sources such as burning wood  in chimneys, dyes and so on.  I also have leg cramps and foot cramps after    seven years of asthma treatments and many reactions to drugs I thought the singular was my answer now I am mixed up after reading all your post.   I cannot sleep as well as i did when I took the melatonin, I cannot find out why the pain returns within 24 hrs of the stopping of livbid and I get no better socially as i have not been to a show in a decade, every time i try to go too church I am run over with cough drops and embarrased  I can not shop at a mall and am slowly becoming a house prisoner and it makes me dam mad that I have spent so much money and taken so dam many pills and now I  seem worst than before,  the last time I changed drs. I got a misss diagnosis as he read the X-ray report wrong and then when I called him on it he reused totreat me futher which I then went to a pulmonary spec, who i follow  as well as I can every afford, am 65 yrs old  what would you do next??//.

Response:

For two years I took melatonin every day , I have asthma and was taking abuterol,x2 puffs, 4times a day and at night taking singular before bed. about three months ago I had over twenty attacts of sever muscular cramps in my rt. upper quadrant, so severe I was in tears.  My dr. put me on LIVBID and it corrected  the pain quickly, the day I started livbid i quit the melatonin.(took it to help sleep and my hair grew longer than ever in my whole life)  Now if I go off the livbid my pain returns in my right Quadrant  This pain has been an off again on again problem with me four or more years before I was diagnosed with asthma, say about 14 years and I have been through the standard upper, lower, etc  type exaimes.   My asthma is chemically induced  and the list of chemicals is extremely long, plus other sources such as burning wood  in chimneys, dyes and so on.  I also have leg cramps and foot cramps after    seven years of asthma treatments and many reactions to drugs I thought the singular was my answer now I am mixed up after reading all your post.   I cannot sleep as well as i did when I took the melatonin, I cannot find out why the pain returns within 24 hrs of the stopping of livbid and I get no better socially as i have not been to a show in a decade, every time i try to go too church I am run over with cough drops and embarrased  I can not shop at a mall and am slowly becoming a house prisoner and it makes me dam mad that I have spent so much money and taken so dam many pills and now I  seem worst than before,  the last time I changed drs. I got a misss diagnosis as he read the X-ray report wrong and then when I called him on it he reused totreat me futher which I then went to a pulmonary spec, who i follow  as well as I can every afford, am 65 yrs old  what would you do next??//.

Response:

: wrong and then when I called him on it he reused totreat me futher which : I then went to a pulmonary spec, who i follow  as well as I can every : afford, am 65 yrs old  what would you do next??//. I have heard of a saline spray for blocked throat in glandular fever. Also the lungs are high in sodium compared to other body tissues. Cramp can be a result of too little salt. Have you changed your diet apart from melatonin? Perhaps salt helps to slow the heart, a little, too, maybe if it is with some potassiium chloride, too, and helps sleep. That would be if your kidneys are not hanging on to salt because of lack of the hormone aldosterone. Or perhaps if you take diuretic. Sometimes you are told you should not reduce salt intake when on certain diuretics. The sodium/potassium balance deserves care, also when experimenting. I don’t know much about what melatonin would do, or have any authority in the medical area at all. Dodo Dolphin

Response:

Question:

Hi all!  Just came from Dr, now we have 2 inhalers (Flovent and Albuterol) plus ventolin to add to the albuterol nebulizer.  We also have the Steroids (Predinisone) for 5 days and another allergy medicine to try (Claritin didn’t help)…..     Thanks everyone who posted and emailed me, we have an action plan now and the Doctor talked to me for a long time today about what to look for – in order to know to take her to the ER, signs like some of the ones mentioned…     Finding the trigger I’m thinking will be next to impossible since she only gets it 2x per year, we are thinking it’s pollen or something seasonal.  I tried to respond via dejanews about the environment suggestions, it’s not showing up here now but anyway, the possibility of eliminating dust mold etc are pretty remote, if it’s the house, carpet, furniture…. Thanks again all, Kathleen | Hi Steve and Kathleen, | | I have a daughter 6 1/2 years of age and a son 4 years of age. Both have | had asthma since they were 3 months old. | | I have two nebulizers at home and I give the kids ventolin when they are | coughing.  They also have taken preventative medication Intal (didn’t work) | and Pulmicort.  They are now on 2 other preventative treatments Flixatide | (which is like Pulmicort) and Serevent (which is a preventative ventolin). | | I have them under the control of a pediatric respritory doctor who is | superb.  I can give my kids Ventolin every 1 – 2 hours.  My asthma plan is | they have 2 machines close together 1/2 hour apart.  Wait an 1hr give | another and wait an 1 hr and give another, if they don’t settle I take them | up to the hospital or start a 3 day course of prednisolone. | | Take a good close look at their chest.  If their chest is suken when you | lift their shirt then they need oxygen immediately. | | If she needs prednisolone, I feel she needs a preventative.  My children | have not been able to stop preventative medication for more than 3 months at | a time. | | Are you in Australia? | | LA

Response:

Barry is a salesman.  He sells air cleaners.

I am glad that you asked this question as it was the first thing I thought when I read the posting.

Response:

Hi ! First let me say that I can not help you but before you toss this you might be able to help me… I am a preschool teacher ( 4 and 5 year olds) and more of my students are being diagnosed with asthma.  One of my students was hospilatized theis weekend. ( he’s fine now but it got me thinking) I have taken courses in Health, Safety and Nutrition as well as CPR and First Aid and yet I too, do not know much about the early signs of a problem. I hope I would recognize a child in a severe condition and could respond accordingly but I’m not sure I could detect the early signs…. Can you help educate me? Can you share some information? Do you know of any helpful books or brochures. I would hate to think I could overlook sign until a distressful situation developed.   I probably won’t remember how I got to this board so can you respond in a

Response:

Tough call. If your child is mature enough to understand how to use a peak flow meter then I would get one. It is a little plastic device that they blow into as hard as they can. Asthmatics have a hard time getting air out of their lungs quickly. If there is an asthma attack it will show up on the peak flow. Have your child do three blows twice a day and record the results. Know what her best is. If she is 80-100% of her best, she is ok. If she is 60-80% of her best she is having some trouble, needs albuterol, but you don’t need to rush to the ER. Just see your doctor as quickly as possible. Under 60% then an ER visit is indicated. Remember, asthma is a desease of inflammation, not bronchoconstriction. Albuterol is a bronchodilator and steroids are antiinflammatories. Although you cannot overdose albuterol you may get to a point were it’s not effective anymore because you need that steroid. Also, is your child on a preventative medicine? I hope that helps. For more information on asthma you can check out my website at www.ibabydoc.com. No spam I just love being a pediatrician and helping children. Dr. Michael Bornstein, M.D. F.A.A.P. www.ibabydoc.com

Response:

My daughter has had asthma since she was around 2yo, just ‘officially’ diagnosed early this year.  We have a nebulizer at home and I have been instructed to use it when she starts coughing, with albuterol & saline solution.  About 2x a year it isn’t enough and she has had to take Pedipred/predinisone (spelling?) for 10 days and that has always cleared it up.     My question is, how do I know she needs to go to the hospital?

The Expert Panel Report 2 has a figure classifying severity of asthma exacerbations [Fig 3-9]. Some of the symptoms for a severe exacerbation are: Breathlessness–while at rest Talks in words, rather than phrases or sentences. Agitated Repiratory rate often 30/min Wheeze–usually loud; throughout inhale & exhale Pulse–120/min Peak flow <50% personal best [a 5 yr old should be             able to use a peak flow meter] Note: The presence of several parameters, but not necessarily all, indicates the general classification of the exacerbation.  Her appetite is better today than yesterday, she is wanting to get around today (yesterday she slept on and off all day) but I can feel the wheezing in her chest.  I have been giving her breathing treatments at least every three hours.     This started up Friday morning and I let her go to school, however the nebulizer does not seem to be helping, not more than for a couple hours anyway.  Is it possible to overdose on Albuterol??

Ask your doctor; albuterol is a fairly safe drug. Current asthma guidelines are to have an Action Plan to increase drugs when peak flow decreases or symptoms increase; typically a steroid inhaler is added or increased and albuterol used as needed, when peak flows drop below 80% personal best or symptoms increase. Such an Action Plan may help avoid the need to go on oral steroids like Pedipred or make a trip to ER. http://www.ama-assn.org/special/asthma/treatmnt/updates/patient.htm Patient Asthma Action Plans Ellis – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     We have had a great doctor since she was born, and will go see her tomorrow but it would be nice if I could converse with others who have dealt with this type of asthma…..   It never seems particularly severe to me but her doctor is always very concerned by the time I take her in.  I tend to worry about it a lot when she gets like this and fear the worst.. that I will under-react and it will be TOO LATE. Thanks, Kathleen

Response:

My daughter has had asthma since she was around 2yo, just ‘officially’ diagnosed early this year.  We have a nebulizer at home and I have been instructed to use it when she starts coughing, with albuterol & saline solution.  About 2x a year it isn’t enough and she has had to take Pedipred/predinisone (spelling?) for 10 days and that has always cleared it up.     My question is, how do I know she needs to go to the hospital?  Her appetite is better today than yesterday, she is wanting to get around today (yesterday she slept on and off all day) but I can feel the wheezing in her chest.  I have been giving her breathing treatments at least every three hours.     This started up Friday morning and I let her go to school, however the nebulizer does not seem to be helping, not more than for a couple hours anyway.  Is it possible to overdose on Albuterol??     We have had a great doctor since she was born, and will go see her tomorrow but it would be nice if I could converse with others who have dealt with this type of asthma…..   It never seems particularly severe to me but her doctor is always very concerned by the time I take her in.  I tend to worry about it a lot when she gets like this and fear the worst.. that I will under-react and it will be TOO LATE. Thanks, Kathleen I am not looking for treatment or medical gagets, just people who are familiar with this scenario — "If you think you are too small to be effective then you have never been in bed with a mosquito."

Response:

Barry here of http://www.aircleaners.com I know that your against medical devices, but if the drugs arent working then mabe its an environmental problem that products such as HEPA air cleaners, DustMite Proof mattress and pillow encasings Ect.. may help. Mabe your homes indoor environment needs to be cleaned up. Do you have any carpet that is less then two years old ? Have you had any roof leaks in the past? You could have a chemical outgassing problem or a mold problem in your home that could cause chronic health problems.Also have you had much pest control ? If you dont get rid of the triggers first, the drugs wont always do a good job.You need to look at the big picture for possible environmental problems.Both at home and at school. The drugs are just a part of it. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My daughter has had asthma since she was around 2yo, just ‘officially’ diagnosed early this year.  We have a nebulizer at home and I have been instructed to use it when she starts coughing, with albuterol & saline solution.  About 2x a year it isn’t enough and she has had to take Pedipred/predinisone (spelling?) for 10 days and that has always cleared it up.     My question is, how do I know she needs to go to the hospital?  Her appetite is better today than yesterday, she is wanting to get around today (yesterday she slept on and off all day) but I can feel the wheezing in her chest.  I have been giving her breathing treatments at least every three hours.     This started up Friday morning and I let her go to school, however the nebulizer does not seem to be helping, not more than for a couple hours anyway.  Is it possible to overdose on Albuterol??     We have had a great doctor since she was born, and will go see her tomorrow but it would be nice if I could converse with others who have dealt with this type of asthma…..   It never seems particularly severe to me but her doctor is always very concerned by the time I take her in.  I tend to worry about it a lot when she gets like this and fear the worst.. that I will under-react and it will be TOO LATE. Thanks, Kathleen I am not looking for treatment or medical gagets, just people who are familiar with this scenario — "If you think you are too small to be effective then you have never been in bed with a mosquito."

Response:

Barry here of http://www.aircleaners.com I know that your against medical devices, but if the drugs arent working then mabe its an environmental problem that products such as HEPA air cleaners, DustMite Proof mattress and pillow encasings Ect.. may help. Mabe your homes indoor environment needs to be cleaned up. Do you have any carpet that is less then two years old ? Have you had any roof leaks in the past? You could have a chemical outgassing problem or a mold problem in your home that could cause chronic health problems.Also have you had much pest control ? If you dont get rid of the triggers first, the drugs wont always do a good job.You need to look at the big picture for possible environmental problems.Both at home and at school. The drugs are just a part of it.

This in no way remotely addresses the questions she was answering. I don’t understand you people.

Response:

Barry here of http://www.aircleaners.com I know that your against medical devices, but if the drugs arent working then mabe its an environmental problem that products such as HEPA air cleaners, DustMite Proof mattress and pillow encasings Ect.. may help. Mabe your homes indoor environment needs to be cleaned up. Do you have any carpet that is less then two years old ? Have you had any roof leaks in the past? You could have a chemical outgassing problem or a mold problem in your home that could cause chronic health problems.Also have you had much pest control ? If you dont get rid of the triggers first, the drugs wont always do a good job.You need to look at the big picture for possible environmental problems.Both at home and at school.

That is assuming that there is an ‘environmental problem.’ Generally, in the case of asthma the problem will be allergy. Identifying the allergen in question is a must before you try to spend any money controlling things that usually are not causing problems. "Being responsible sometimes means pissing people off."    General Colin Powell

Response:

Barry here of http://www.aircleaners.com I know that your against medical devices, but if the drugs arent working then mabe its an environmental problem that products such as HEPA air cleaners, DustMite Proof mattress and pillow encasings Ect.. may help. Mabe your homes indoor environment needs to be cleaned up. Do you have any carpet that is less then two years old ? Have you had any roof leaks in the past? You could have a chemical outgassing problem or a mold problem in your home that could cause chronic health problems.Also have you had much pest control ? If you dont get rid of the triggers first, the drugs wont always do a good job.You need to look at the big picture for possible environmental problems.Both at home and at school. The drugs are just a part of it. This in no way remotely addresses the questions she was answering. I don’t understand you people.

Barry is a salesman.  He sells air cleaners. PS  Barry, are you still selling Alpine products? "Being responsible sometimes means pissing people off."    General Colin Powell

Response:

: : Barry here of http://www.aircleaners.com I know that your against medical : devices, but if the drugs arent working then mabe its an environmental : problem that products such as HEPA air cleaners, DustMite Proof mattress and : pillow encasings Ect.. may help. Mabe your homes indoor environment needs to : be cleaned up. Do you have any carpet that is less then two years old ? Have : you had any roof leaks in the past? You could have a chemical outgassing : problem or a mold problem in your home that could cause chronic health : problems.Also have you had much pest control ? If you dont get rid of the : triggers first, the drugs wont always do a good job.You need to look at the : big picture for possible environmental problems.Both at home and at school. : : That is assuming that there is an ‘environmental problem.’ : : Generally, in the case of asthma the problem will be allergy. : Identifying the allergen in question is a must before you try to spend : any money controlling things that usually are not causing problems. I do have asthma triggered by environmental problems and the air cleaners don’t help much if any. If you have an environmental trigger you get away from it or clean it up. At best a room sized air filter help me a very little bit. Cleaning the airconditioner ducts and sealing the leak between the cloths dryer and the return air and putting a decent filtering set helped a lot. The fabric softener in laundry products causes me problems if I get in in my lungs. I don’t use the crap on my cloths and we had changed for the one that caused me trouble but there was still enough in the  ducts to cause problems. I am not cured but I am a lot better. Before you spend money fixing problems find out what  triggers the asthma. An allergy test is a good start. Baring that some commons sense things that don’t cost anything are don’t run the vacuum while your child is in the house. Do it when she will be at school or a friends for a few hours. Make sure some fresh air gets in the house don’t live on recycled air. Wash the bed clothes in hot 150 degree water and dry them on high heat or dry them on a line in the sun shine. Both hard on dust mites. Keep the humidity between 30 and 50% if possible. Higher than this dust mites an molds are a problem lower than this air way irritation is a problem. Use ivory soap and avoid perfumed stuff for her in particular. They may or may not cause her a problem but they don’t help. Don’t use perfumed products when you can get a better cheaper plain product. Make your house smell clean by being clean not by deodorizers. Don’t use fabric softener on her clothes or bedding. It may not be a problem but it won’t help her asthma. One thing Barry is right on about is roof leaks and black slimy mold. If you have black slimy mold in the house you need to find out what it is and get rid of it. Some of them are very very bad news. They are also very rare. The seem to like to grow on the paper on sheet rock in the walls. Mildew is a lesser problem that should be dealt with by lowering the humidity until it is not much of a problem except at the corners of the bath tube and so on. Keeping molds out of carped bath rooms is hard to do. If you must have carpeted bathrooms make sure the shower curtain is tight and run the exhaust fan a lot and make sure the male members of the family have good aim. If you have animals move them outside or get rid of them. Don’t use a lot of Clorox or other cleaners that irritate the airways while she is in the house. Until you find the triggers or she grows enough that the asthma no longer causes attacks because the air ways get big enough the don’t close off you are running blind on trying to find relief by avoiding triggers. An allergist and pulmunolgist are your best bets for finding triggers and developing a plan to treat the asthma. Your daughter may be able to tell you what makes her feel bad. Sometimes they are right. — Gordon    W5RED

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Question:

Allen, I’ve never heard of Cymbalta, what’s its closest relative ? Sounds like you’ve tried them all. Good luck my friend. LJ

It’s a new SNRI cooked up recently by those lovely folks at Eli-Lilly that also gave us Prozac. P. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve been prescribed Cymbalta by my MD yesterday. 30mg pills and I am told to increase to 60mg when I feel ready and if I am not feeling any side effects. Yesterday was the first day I was on it and I didn’t have any side effects except for fatique. The Fatique seems less today. Do people think this may possible be a good drug for panic disorder, depression and dysthymia? I’ve been off medication for almost a year, so now I’m on klonopin 1mg 2x a day, along with Restoril 15mg-30mg at night as needed and the Cymbalta of course. Drugs prior to this always seem to work for a few short weeks, but they always poop out. I’ve been on Lexapro, Celexa, Zoloft, Paxil, Effexor XR, Imipramine, Desipramine, and Amitryptiline, Xanax, Valium, Ativan and Provigil for depression and anxiety. I’m just looking for any words of help and information. I hope this drug works out for me as I don’t know what else there is for me to try. I see a psychiatrist sometime this week if she can get me in and I’ll see what she says about the current regimine I am on. Thanks for any ideas and help. — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at:

Question:

One junior aspirin is ok, but large doses are contraindicated with insulin or glucose-reducing tablets. Possible hypos you see. References Professor Peter Sonksen Emeritus Professor of Endocrinology Guy`s, King`s and St. Thomas` Hospitals` School of Medicine St. Thomas Hospital London Dr. Charles Fox Consultant Physician Northampton General Hospital Sue Judd DSN St. Thomas` Hospital London — Al. Idiopathic t1 HbA1c 5.95 Total Chol 2.7 Blood Pressure 105/70 Beef Lente 1x Beef Neutral 2x

Response:

Many diabetologists prescribe 75mg aspirin per day as a matter of course since stroke is major danger for T2s.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is it the same for paracetamol? Ian I done some searching, and the supposed dangers of paracetamol are just one more urban myth. http://tinyurl.com/zau9 A website that has a vested interest. They also don’t mention liver damage due to paracetamol which eventually causes death. They quote 30+ tablets are required to kill you. They don’t say that liver damage can occur with far fewer. They also don’t point out that a tub of 100 can be bought for a couple of quid, or that an overdose of, for example, 100 prozac/effexor can be survived but are POM. Al, with your inherehent cynicism I’m surprised you don’t look for the info that’s between the lines.

With my inherent cynicism I don`t trust a mere paramedic dxed less than 6 months ago. Is your HbA1c less than 6mmol yet? Might be, if so good. Is your total chol below 4 yet? If so good Stick around a bit, some of us here were dxed decades ago, you might learn, but with you inherent arrogance you might not. I remember you claiming on upsd that dm can cause immediate organ failure. Oh no, it is takes 20+ years to do it slowly and painfully. Paracetamol used correctly takes at least that long to cause liver failure. Al Cynical to my last dying breath.

Response:

Is it the same for paracetamol? Ian

I done some searching, and the supposed dangers of paracetamol are just one more urban myth. http://tinyurl.com/zau9 — Al. Idiopathic t1 HbA1c 5.95 Total Chol 2.7 Blood Pressure 105/70 Beef Lente 1x Beef Neutral 2x

Response:

One junior aspirin is ok, but large doses are contraindicated with insulin or glucose-reducing tablets. Possible hypos you see.

Funny, my GP said that when I asked about using aspirin as an anti- coagulant: no more than 75 mg. He didn’t connect it with diabetes though. — Joe Soap

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is it the same for paracetamol? Ian Not afaik. But paracetamol in very very large doses damages the liver, or so I am told,  by a doctor I used to trust back in the good old 1970`s when I was not diabetic. Paracetamol is dangerous in *not very* large dosages. In fact I’d go as far as to say it is probably the most dangerous non-prescription medicinal drug.

Do you have an URL, please? You might well be right, I certainly prefer not to touch it. — Al. Idiopathic t1 HbA1c 5.95 Total Chol 2.7 Blood Pressure 105/70 Beef Lente 1x Beef Neutral 2x

Response:

Is it the same for paracetamol? Ian

Not afaik. But paracetamol in very very large doses damages the liver, or so I am told,  by a doctor I used to trust back in the good old 1970`s when I was not diabetic. — Al. Idiopathic t1 HbA1c 5.95 Total Chol 2.7 Blood Pressure 105/70 Beef Lente 1x Beef Neutral 2x

Response:

Is it the same for paracetamol? Ian

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – One junior aspirin is ok, but large doses are contraindicated with insulin or glucose-reducing tablets. Possible hypos you see. References Professor Peter Sonksen Emeritus Professor of Endocrinology Guy`s, King`s and St. Thomas` Hospitals` School of Medicine St. Thomas Hospital London Dr. Charles Fox Consultant Physician Northampton General Hospital Sue Judd DSN St. Thomas` Hospital London — Al. Idiopathic t1 HbA1c 5.95 Total Chol 2.7 Blood Pressure 105/70 Beef Lente 1x Beef Neutral 2x

Response:

Is it the same for paracetamol? Ian Not afaik. But paracetamol in very very large doses damages the liver, or so I am told,  by a doctor I used to trust back in the good old 1970`s when I was not diabetic.

A great many suicides are caused by overdosing on paracetamol. The sad bit is that death is not immediate, but if not treated within a few hours, the liver damage is irreversible, so the patient dies slowly over the next few days even though they might have had a change of heart about killing themselves. Many suicide attempts are in reality a cry for help, not a genuine desire to end it all. At one time it was suggested that all paracetamol tablets have the antidote incorporated into them, so that the more tablets you took, the more antidote you got, and the whole thing was self neutralising, but nothing ever happened and the suicides continue. I had a relative who had a very close shave overdosing with paracetamol. — Chris E-mail: christopher[dot]hogg[at]virgin[dot]net

Response:

Question:

The loss of bloating and heart burn after eliminating wheat is very common to low carbers.  If you eat wheat it will come back with a vengeance. However, I found that after 1 1/2 yrs of low carbing when I reintroduced modest amounts of wheat back into my diet I no longer had major problems with it. The explanation may be that resting the system allows something to heal.

Response:

I used to have chronic bloating and stomach pain every evening after meals. Yet, when I tried LC, my bloating disappeared. I am thinking I might be allergic to wheat or something like that.  Has anyone else experienced positive side effects (besides weight loss), as a result of eliminating or cutting back on carbs? Tina

I haven’t had gas problems since I started. I used to have them all the time. My mood cycles (I have been manic-depressive all my life) have pretty much cleared up. Any bad periods only last a couple of days, and they have been rare. I have much better muscle control ( I have benign essential tremor and sclerotic symptoms) in fact I’m starting art again, and can go back to playing instruments I haven’t been able to play in years. Sandra lc since 1/15/01 290/251/145 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

I used to have chronic bloating and stomach pain every evening after meals. Yet, when I tried LC, my bloating disappeared. I am thinking I might be allergic to wheat or something like that.  Has anyone else experienced positive side effects (besides weight loss), as a result of eliminating or cutting back on carbs?

I think that bloating after eating wheat/grain products is a symptom of Celiac Disease, something that basically makes people who are allergic to the grain products and don’t know it very ill. Or you could just have a digestive system sensitive to grains. Amy

Response:

Welcome to the group!  Keep on posting!  I think you’ve got a great attitude about your weight and putting more importance on how you feel. Don’t think you’ve got to stick with eggs for breaky… anything will do. Last night’s leftovers, even.  Sometime’s I’ll panfry a pork chop or chicken breast for breakfast, or have a protein shake.  Haven’t done this in a while, but there’s a recipe for flax meal hot cereal that is yummy, too, plus provides lots of fiber as well as good fats.  Of course, unless you’re in the southern hemisphere, it’s starting to get too warm to have hot cereal in the morning.. but to each his own. LOL! Good luck on your low carb journey! — Cheers! Nicole K. 263/202/150 ~~ Yes, its tough to do, but the results that last a lifetime are      worth more then a bowl of ice cream that lasts only 5 mins.          –Tinakaye

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – << – PMS virtually disappeared yes, me too since starting this Low carb. this is my first time posting on here, since i’ve been trying out this low carb thing i haven’t been really following like the induction diet too closely but i will soon.. i found that i very rarely have cravings for sweets(which are the worst for me) and pasta/bread. that the hunger pains disappeared,(usually when i don’t skip lunch) and have less bloatedness and stomachache aches. I haven’t  noticed any weight losses yet which b/c i don’t like the scale, i’m like 200lbs by the Dr’s scale, so i would like to be about 150 but i’ve always went by how i feel and how my clothes fit. I want to really start this induction diet soon, but i’ve found that i’d never thought i’d get tired of eggs b/c sometimes i don’t know what else to eat esp. for breakfat. i’ve been trying to cut down on the caffeine which is the hardest b/c i feel that it causes me to be more hungry afterwards. so hopefully i can get more motivation to do this induction diet and start ’seeing’ some results! take care, kim

Response:

I also had occasional "wind" problems that were solved by this WOE and return when I go back to my evil ways –especially sweets! Kirsten

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was wondering for a minute there how "wind" could cause stomach aches. but now I understand you didn’t mean the weather kind — -Beth, Pseudo usenet cop BikeE FX, AT and rans gliss Anchorage, Alaska http://home.gci.net/~dawg/ My daughter suffered with stomach aches caused by wind. On the second day of induction she wasnt a nice person to be around but she has got rid of her stomach ache and hopefully the wind that was causing it. I used to have chronic bloating and stomach pain every evening after meals. Yet, when I tried LC, my bloating disappeared. I am thinking I might be allergic to wheat or something like that.  Has anyone else experienced positive side effects (besides weight loss), as a result of eliminating or cutting back on carbs? Tina

Response:

<< – PMS virtually disappeared yes, me too since starting this Low carb. this is my first time posting on here, since i’ve been trying out this low carb thing i haven’t been really following like the induction diet too closely but i will soon.. i found that i very rarely have cravings for sweets(which are the worst for me) and pasta/bread. that the hunger pains disappeared,(usually when i don’t skip lunch) and have less bloatedness and stomachache aches. I haven’t  noticed any weight losses yet which b/c i don’t like the scale, i’m like 200lbs by the Dr’s scale, so i would like to be about 150 but i’ve always went by how i feel and how my clothes fit. I want to really start this induction diet soon, but i’ve found that i’d never thought i’d get tired of eggs b/c sometimes i don’t know what else to eat esp. for breakfat. i’ve been trying to cut down on the caffeine which is the hardest b/c i feel that it causes me to be more hungry afterwards. so hopefully i can get more motivation to do this induction diet and start ’seeing’ some results! take care, kim

Response:

I was wondering for a minute there how "wind" could cause stomach aches. but now I understand you didn’t mean the weather kind — -Beth, Pseudo usenet cop BikeE FX, AT and rans gliss Anchorage, Alaska http://home.gci.net/~dawg/

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My daughter suffered with stomach aches caused by wind. On the second day of induction she wasnt a nice person to be around but she has got rid of her stomach ache and hopefully the wind that was causing it. I used to have chronic bloating and stomach pain every evening after meals. Yet, when I tried LC, my bloating disappeared. I am thinking I might be allergic to wheat or something like that.  Has anyone else experienced positive side effects (besides weight loss), as a result of eliminating or cutting back on carbs? Tina

Response:

My daughter suffered with stomach aches caused by wind. On the second day of induction she wasnt a nice person to be around but she has got rid of her stomach ache and hopefully the wind that was causing it.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I used to have chronic bloating and stomach pain every evening after meals. Yet, when I tried LC, my bloating disappeared. I am thinking I might be allergic to wheat or something like that.  Has anyone else experienced positive side effects (besides weight loss), as a result of eliminating or cutting back on carbs? Tina

Response:

I used to have chronic bloating and stomach pain every evening after meals. Yet, when I tried LC, my bloating disappeared. I am thinking I might be allergic to wheat or something like that.  Has anyone else experienced positive side effects (besides weight loss), as a result of eliminating or cutting back on carbs? Tina

Response:

Absolutely! – PMS virtually disappeared.  Now I have to pay excrutiating attention to the calendar instead of relying on breast tenderness, bloating, moodiness, rages, etc to indicate that my period was about to start. – Digestive problems greatly diminished. – Depression has disappeared.  I’m now on an even keel emotionally for the first time in my life. – I’m awake and alert all day, where before I used to take a nosedive onto my desk at about 2 in the afternoon. –  I sleep better and can wake up easier in the morning. – Food no longer has control over me. – I can stop eating when I’m satisfied instead of being compelled to eat more, even if I was gorged. Oh, and I’ve lost 61 pounds. — Cheers! Nicole K. 263/202/150 ~~ Yes, its tough to do, but the results that last a lifetime are      worth more then a bowl of ice cream that lasts only 5 mins.          –Tinakaye

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I used to have chronic bloating and stomach pain every evening after meals. Yet, when I tried LC, my bloating disappeared. I am thinking I might be allergic to wheat or something like that.  Has anyone else experienced positive side effects (besides weight loss), as a result of eliminating or cutting back on carbs? Tina

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You gotta remember I live in Oklahoma USA….cattle is king around here…although I know Aussies are serious contributors.  I even have Kayla trained…"what’s for dinner Kayla?"  she replies "oh I don’t know, something with hamburger meat"  It’s cheap and versitile…do I sound like a commercial for the beef trade yet? LOL R Just kidding.  I hope to heck no one ever tells me to refrain from eating meat…we live on hamburger meat…LOL On behalf of the Australian cattle producers who supply most of it, I thank you.   Ian Robin When your unemployed hamburger meet comes in handy.

Confess your sins.  Turn from your sins.  Believe in your heart.  Ask Jesus to save you.

Response:

Listen freak…no one yanked your chain.  YOU are unemployed.  Neither I or my husband are.  Get this through your thick head.  I do NOT want you to reply to me, antagonize me or harass me.  I would like for you to go away.  I do NOT understand how you can even log on here every day…then again it is between here and a few other choice places that you do…been visiting a lot of alt.sex ng’s lately haven’t you donny? Oh and there was that one…what was it?  Hmmm…somewhere to do with computers for sale, and then a few I figure must not have been you since they were normal sites.  Don’t think just because you don’t use the same screen name and such that we can’t figure out where you have been.  I wonder though?  Is it cable, DSL or just boredom that keeps your ip the same for so long? R Robin When your unemployed hamburger meet comes in handy.

Robin "Anyone who thinks they’re important is usually just a pompous moron who can’t deal with his or her own pathetic insignificance and the fact that what they do is meaningless and inconsequential…"   William Thomas

Response:

We also eat lots of sandwiches to.  When you have only one paycheck its tough. dc Confess your sins.  Turn from your sins.  Believe in your heart.  Ask Jesus to save you.

Response:

You gotta remember I live in Oklahoma USA….cattle is king around here…although I know Aussies are serious contributors.  I even have Kayla trained…"what’s for dinner Kayla?"  she replies "oh I don’t know, something with hamburger meat"  It’s cheap and versitile…do I sound like a commercial for the beef trade yet? LOL R

I doubt they would be grinding up good USA prime beef when they can use cheap old rogue bull meat from central Oz. <G Always ask for 3RT grade. That means that the carcass has been run over and tenderised by at least 3 road trains (prime mover pulling Ian

Response:

Just kidding.  I hope to heck no one ever tells me to refrain from eating meat…we live on hamburger meat…LOL

On behalf of the Australian cattle producers who supply most of it, I thank you.   Ian

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You gotta remember I live in Oklahoma USA….cattle is king around here…although I know Aussies are serious contributors.  I even have Kayla trained…"what’s for dinner Kayla?"  she replies "oh I don’t know, something with hamburger meat"  It’s cheap and versitile…do I sound like a commercial for the beef trade yet? LOL R Just kidding.  I hope to heck no one ever tells me to refrain from eating meat…we live on hamburger meat…LOL On behalf of the Australian cattle producers who supply most of it, I thank you.   Ian Robin

Jeez, Robin, you’re not afraid of Mad Cow Disease?? Thats my newest paranoia now…last year it was Ecoli….it’s gotta be something, you know      lorri

Response:

You gotta remember I live in Oklahoma USA….cattle is king around here…although I know Aussies are serious contributors.  I even have Kayla trained…"what’s for dinner Kayla?"  she replies "oh I don’t know, something with hamburger meat"  It’s cheap and versitile…do I sound like a commercial for the beef trade yet? LOL R Just kidding.  I hope to heck no one ever tells me to refrain from eating meat…we live on hamburger meat…LOL On behalf of the Australian cattle producers who supply most of it, I thank you.   Ian

Robin

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hello friends: It is almost time for my visit with my pdoc. Actually I must call and confirm the date, some time at the end of November. I’m going to get in shit by him but who cares!!! He wanted me to walk 3 – 5 miles a day and fill up on salad and refrain from eating meat. I’ll tell ya, if I did those 3 – 5 miles I would not be around for my next appointment. He would be treating me from the ditch on the side of the road. LOL I’m going to be making the Zoloft for three years and I am on the highest dosage. I wonder if I will suffer any withdrawal symptoms, I also wonder how this switch will take place. All I know is I will no longer be hungry 24 hours a day and the love will return, if ya know what I mean. LOL Hey, that is my excuse! That damn Zoloft was making me so hungry that is why I couldn’t cut back. HEHEHE So, I should have a wonderful Christmas. What a shitty time to switch meds! No doubt I will not be feeling the full effects of Celexa until after Christmas. Oh well I will just stay sedated on benzo’s. HEHEHE If 200mg is the maximum allowable dosage for Zoloft, what is the equivalent in Celexa? Going to bed. Hopefully I’ll sleep. That’s another thing, I cannot sleep on Zoloft. I’m tired but cannot fall asleep. I guess the dose is too high. I used to be able to sleep on 100 and 150mg. Anyway, GOOD NIGHT ALL! Paula

Hi Paula, As I understand it you’re changing to Celexa mainly because of the hunger pangs that Zoloft produces and the weight increase that results. That may help, I don’t know, its probably a very individual thing. However, I am concerned that you seem to need the max Zoloft dose to treat your anxiety. ADs seem to have a dose ‘window’ range at which they produce the maximum effect. Taking more than this ‘window’ range can be just as counterproductive as taking too little. Celexa seems to affect basically the same receptors as Zoloft, so you shouldn’t get much of a withdrawal effect because of compatibility issues. It should begin working virtually immediately. I don’t know of any dose equivalency tables, but I assume you doctor wouldn’t want you to start out on the max dose (60mg), but probably will suggest 40mg/day, which is the usual therapeutic dose. That may mean that there is a slight withdrawal effect, but you probably won’t notice too much. The benzos will help if needed. Celexa isn’t particularly sedating, so you might not get any direct benefit, but once its working it may alleviate whatever is causing your insomnia. Good luck Ian

Response:

I thought I would put a plus by your name since you brought it up before LOL Just kidding.  I hope to heck no one ever tells me to refrain from eating meat…we live on hamburger meat…LOL Anyhow…good luck with your med switch…~  It might not be as bad as you think changing over….they have changed Wes’ meds from high doses of one to what seems like a low dose of another and not had serious side effects because of the differences in the meds.  Stay positive about it!  I bet you make it through with flying colors R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hello friends: It is almost time for my visit with my pdoc. Actually I must call and confirm the date, some time at the end of November. I’m going to get in shit by him but who cares!!! He wanted me to walk 3 – 5 miles a day and fill up on salad and refrain from eating meat. I’ll tell ya, if I did those 3 – 5 miles I would not be around for my next appointment. He would be treating me from the ditch on the side of the road. LOL I’m going to be making the Zoloft for three years and I am on the highest dosage. I wonder if I will suffer any withdrawal symptoms, I also wonder how this switch will take place. All I know is I will no longer be hungry 24 hours a day and the love will return, if ya know what I mean. LOL Hey, that is my excuse! That damn Zoloft was making me so hungry that is why I couldn’t cut back. HEHEHE So, I should have a wonderful Christmas. What a shitty time to switch meds! No doubt I will not be feeling the full effects of Celexa until after Christmas. Oh well I will just stay sedated on benzo’s. HEHEHE If 200mg is the maximum allowable dosage for Zoloft, what is the equivalent in Celexa? Going to bed. Hopefully I’ll sleep. That’s another thing, I cannot sleep on Zoloft. I’m tired but cannot fall asleep. I guess the dose is too high. I used to be able to sleep on 100 and 150mg. Anyway, GOOD NIGHT ALL! Paula

Robin

Response:

I’m sorry you have to switch meds Paula.  I  know I really hate being on these meds, although they have gotten me through some rough times.  I hope the transition goes smoothly for you. Hugs, Di

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello friends: It is almost time for my visit with my pdoc. Actually I must call and confirm the date, some time at the end of November. I’m going to get in shit by him but who cares!!! He wanted me to walk 3 – 5 miles a day and fill up on salad and refrain from eating meat. I’ll tell ya, if I did those 3 – 5 miles I would not be around for my next appointment. He would be treating me from the ditch on the side of the road. LOL I’m going to be making the on Zoloft for three years and I am on the highest dosage. I wonder if I will suffer any withdrawal symptoms, I also wonder how this switch will take place. All I know is I will no longer be hungry 24 hours a day and the love will return, if ya know what I mean. LOL Hey, that is my excuse! That damn Zoloft was making me so hungry that is why I couldn’t cut back. HEHEHE So, I should have a wonderful Christmas. What a shitty time to switch meds! No doubt I will not be feeling the full effects of Celexa until after Christmas. Oh well I will just stay sedated on benzo’s. HEHEHE If 200mg is the maximum allowable dosage for Zoloft, what is the equivalent in Celexa? Going to bed. Hopefully I’ll sleep. That’s another thing, I cannot sleep on Zoloft. I’m tired but cannot fall asleep. I guess the dose is too high. I used to be able to sleep on 100 and 150mg. Anyway, GOOD NIGHT ALL! Paula

Response:

Hello friends: It is almost time for my visit with my pdoc. Actually I must call and confirm the date, some time at the end of November. I’m going to get in shit by him but who cares!!! He wanted me to walk 3 – 5 miles a day and fill up on salad and refrain from eating meat. I’ll tell ya, if I did those 3 – 5 miles I would not be around for my next appointment. He would be treating me from the ditch on the side of the road. LOL I’m going to be making the Zoloft for three years and I am on the highest dosage. I wonder if I will suffer any withdrawal symptoms, I also wonder how this switch will take place. All I know is I will no longer be hungry 24 hours a day and the love will return, if ya know what I mean. LOL Hey, that is my excuse! That damn Zoloft was making me so hungry that is why I couldn’t cut back. HEHEHE So, I should have a wonderful Christmas. What a shitty time to switch meds! No doubt I will not be feeling the full effects of Celexa until after Christmas. Oh well I will just stay sedated on benzo’s. HEHEHE If 200mg is the maximum allowable dosage for Zoloft, what is the equivalent in Celexa? Going to bed. Hopefully I’ll sleep. That’s another thing, I cannot sleep on Zoloft. I’m tired but cannot fall asleep. I guess the dose is too high. I used to be able to sleep on 100 and 150mg. Anyway, GOOD NIGHT ALL! Paula

Response:

Question:

Frank can’t help it folks, poor thing.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I can answer these for you (A) What is a chiropractic subluxation? The potential injury caused by unnecessary spinal manipulation. (B) Can you identify one on a radiograph?  If not, what methods do you use to detect them?  How reliable are these methods? Only after a significant trauma.  Spiral CT scan is a very sensitive for delineating the extent of injury. (C) Can a subluxation cause visceral disease (a la Meric chart)? No (D) Can colic be treated chiropractically? No (E) Can a correcting a subluxation help in childhood ear infections? Not really

Response:

Kirk, sham manipulation is fatally flawed.

How can you be certain the sham manipulation is not having an effect by accident. If sham manipulation can be so successful then

why go to a chiropractor and pay good money? Why go to college to study this if anybody can

do it? The issue is knowing were and when to adjust. If the chiropractor understands what he is

doing then he must be able to make a sham treatment. If he doesn’t understand what he is doing then

why go to a chiropractor? Chris Noble

A key is whether or not the subject knows if it is a sham adjustment if one wishes to incorporate a placebo study. Before you buy.

Response:

 A sham could have some different effect that would blow the whole thing. Not very hard to understand.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Kirk, sham manipulation is fatally flawed.   How can you be certain the sham manipulation is not having an effect by accident. If sham manipulation can be so successful then why go to a chiropractor and pay good money? Why go to college to study this if anybody can do it? If the chiropractor understands what he is doing then he must be able to make a sham treatment. If he doesn’t understand what he is doing then why go to a chiropractor? Chris Noble

Response:

Kirk, sham manipulation is fatally flawed.   How can you be certain the sham manipulation is not having an effect by accident.

If sham manipulation can be so successful then why go to a chiropractor and pay good money? Why go to college to study this if anybody can do it? If the chiropractor understands what he is doing then he must be able to make a sham treatment. If he doesn’t understand what he is doing then why go to a chiropractor? Chris Noble

Response:

    Kirk, sham manipulation is fatally flawed.   How can you be certain the    sham manipulation is not having an effect by accident. If sham manipulation can be so successful then why go to a chiropractor and pay good money? Why go to college to study this if anybody can do it?

Chiro’s have developed techniques that work.   Their patients attest to this. Your sham treatment is neither defined or tested If the chiropractor understands what he is doing then he must be able to make a sham treatment.

 But no-one understands everything about any treatment.   He understands what he is doing works and he understands the basic philosophy behind it.   But he cannot guarantee that his approach is the only one that will work and that your sham treatment cannot possibly work. You want to use a sham treatment?   Prove it is ineffective first. If he doesn’t understand what he is doing then why go to a chiropractor?

Because they have developed successful treatments.   People go through it and say ‘It worked for me’ Until valid studies are done that is all we have to go on. You want a study?   Randomly select patients to consult MD’s or Chiro’s. Blindly evaluate the results.   Which group has a better response? If it’s the MD’s, then I’ll be quite happy to go to an MD first, and if that doesn’t work, go to the Chiro. If it’s the Chiro, then vice versa If it’s the same, then I’ll go to the one with the prettiest receptionist first<g Best wishes — John Bain UK TV Sound Director, magnotherapy user & distributor http://members.aol.com/JBainSI/Magnotherapy.html Surround Sound for Television

Response:

John I have to agree with your post and only wished that I was eloquent enough to have written it. — Dr. Roland R. Hicks Doctor of Chiropractic All good things come from above-down-inside-out Natural Alternative to Celebrex/Vioxx: http://drhicks.joint-pain.com/ Internet Marketing to Win: http://www.aboutimw.com/drhicks.html Nutrition Products and Information: http://freelife.com/Sites/drhicks/redir.cfm?page=/info/welcome/welcom… fm toll free (877) 791-8686

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     Kirk, sham manipulation is fatally flawed.   How can you be certain the    sham manipulation is not having an effect by accident. Not really.  Because the intent of the sham arm of the intervention is to essentially keep the parents blinded, and mimic the conditions of the experimental intervention MINUS the part being investigated.  One could in ensure that a real manipulation is not performed, as long as the parents can’t tell. Not at all.   Just because the patients cannot tell the real treatment from the sham does not mean that the sham is ineffective. It’s like running a test on asprin and using paracetamol as a control. The patients might not be able to tell whether they had the treatment or the control, but the control would never be a placebo.     Comparitive studies are the only way to go until you can develop benchmarks    for the treatment. This, too, is not the case.  With a mere comparison study the conclusions that can be drawn are more prone to being erroneous. To determine if an adjustment (rather than just time spent with the patients, expectation bias, etc) is having an effect, a properly designed sham comparison is the only way to go.  Otherwise we are left with essentially useless studies like the one we are discussing now. Your studies are also useless.   Your controls are invalid.   You have no idea what effect the sham treatment might be having. Randomised comparison studies will show which treatment is more effective, as practised, on a random subject.   I don’t care about the mechanism at this stage, I just want to know which treatment is more effective.   This study will tell me.   It needs to be repeated with a range of practitioners to eliminate charismatic effects, but the results are meaningful.   It gives the odds of a successful outcome for any patient attending either of the two treatments. Controlled studies give us much more useful information than comparisons studies. Not when you do not know whether the sham has any effect.   And you don’t. Your anti-sham philosophy is simply yet another attempt to thwart scientific investigation of alternative modalities (like your arguments against sham acupuncture).  Should we now throw out all negative placebo controlled trials because we can never know if the inert placebo is having some magical, homeopathic, or unknown effect? This is essentially what you are saying if you extend your argument. Not in the slightest.   Unless you can say you totally understand how the therapy works, you cannot say whether the sham treatment has any effect. It must contain enough elements of the treatment to fool the subjects. Inert placebos can be varied to see if there is any difference.   Completely different issue. If you wish to use a sham treatment as a placebo, you must first prove it is ineffective.   How are you going to do that?   Try it against another sham treatment and choose the least effective? No, sham treatments have their place, but cannot be used to prove or disprove a therapy.   All it can prove is that the real treatment is not significantly better than the sham.   Now prove that the sham treatment is ineffective and I’ll listen. Best wishes — John Bain UK TV Sound Director, magnotherapy user & distributor http://members.aol.com/JBainSI/Magnotherapy.html Surround Sound for Television

Response:

    Kirk, sham manipulation is fatally flawed.   How can you be certain the    sham manipulation is not having an effect by accident. Not really.  Because the intent of the sham arm of the intervention is to essentially keep the parents blinded, and mimic the conditions of the experimental intervention MINUS the part being investigated.  One could in ensure that a real manipulation is not performed, as long as the parents can’t tell.  

Not at all.   Just because the patients cannot tell the real treatment from the sham does not mean that the sham is ineffective. It’s like running a test on asprin and using paracetamol as a control.   The patients might not be able to tell whether they had the treatment or the control, but the control would never be a placebo.     Comparitive studies are the only way to go until you can develop benchmarks    for the treatment. This, too, is not the case.  With a mere comparison study the conclusions that can be drawn are more prone to being erroneous. To determine if an adjustment (rather than just time spent with the patients, expectation bias, etc) is having an effect, a properly designed sham comparison is the only way to go.  Otherwise we are left with essentially useless studies like the one we are discussing now.

Your studies are also useless.   Your controls are invalid.   You have no idea what effect the sham treatment might be having. Randomised comparison studies will show which treatment is more effective, as practised, on a random subject.   I don’t care about the mechanism at this stage, I just want to know which treatment is more effective.   This study will tell me.   It needs to be repeated with a range of practitioners to eliminate charismatic effects, but the results are meaningful.   It gives the odds of a successful outcome for any patient attending either of the two treatments. Controlled studies give us much more useful information than comparisons studies.

Not when you do not know whether the sham has any effect.   And you don’t. Your anti-sham philosophy is simply yet another attempt to thwart scientific investigation of alternative modalities (like your arguments against sham acupuncture).  Should we now throw out all negative placebo controlled trials because we can never know if the inert placebo is having some magical, homeopathic, or unknown effect? This is essentially what you are saying if you extend your argument.

Not in the slightest.   Unless you can say you totally understand how the therapy works, you cannot say whether the sham treatment has any effect.   It must contain enough elements of the treatment to fool the subjects.   Inert placebos can be varied to see if there is any difference.   Completely different issue. If you wish to use a sham treatment as a placebo, you must first prove it is ineffective.   How are you going to do that?   Try it against another sham treatment and choose the least effective? No, sham treatments have their place, but cannot be used to prove or disprove a therapy.   All it can prove is that the real treatment is not significantly better than the sham.   Now prove that the sham treatment is ineffective and I’ll listen. Best wishes — John Bain UK TV Sound Director, magnotherapy user & distributor http://members.aol.com/JBainSI/Magnotherapy.html Surround Sound for Television

Response:

Suppose it is simply the child’s karma to be (eventually) free of Colic.  How can we be sure the adjustment, sham adjustment, or other method is not stealing the credit owed to Karma.

Why Andrew, have you done more reading about Karma and are prepared to discuss it now? Here’s the question you kept avoiding all those months ago. Given 100 subjects for a trial,  can we assume that each carries the same Karmic burden Yes or No. If yes, please give your reasons.  When you answer this we can go onto the next question. Best wishes — John Bain UK TV Sound Director, magnotherapy user & distributor http://members.aol.com/JBainSI/Magnotherapy.html Surround Sound for Television

Response:

I understand the need to control variables and the attempted use of sham adjustments to control those variables AMAP. The question of variables does not just enter the control side but also the treatment side of a study.  For example, are all the patients treated with manipulation going to get the same adjustment or the adjustment that is determined to be necessary to correct the dysfunction(subluxation/fixation/restriction).  The reason I bring up this point is because if there is a rotational fixation of the joint then a lateral flexion impulse may or may not correct the fixation and therefore may skew the results to the side of ineffectiveness of the procedure. When it comes to testing a physical medicine the variables are endless.  Not to say that testing should not be done but there must be a global understanding that there are multiple variables that can not be controlled. — Dr. Roland R. Hicks Doctor of Chiropractic All good things come from above-down-inside-out Natural Alternative to Celebrex/Vioxx: http://drhicks.joint-pain.com/ Internet Marketing to Win: http://www.aboutimw.com/drhicks.html Nutrition Products and Information: http://freelife.com/Sites/drhicks/redir.cfm?page=/info/welcome/welcom… fm toll free (877) 791-8686

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Might not be a bad idea to look at all such trials, and shine today’s knowledge on them. I think one might find many old truths to no longer be so. And some to be so. There is much info out there which strongly suggests that we are effected on many subtle levels. By not taking that into account, we can only have faulty or inaccurate information. Surly someone would try to eliminate as many variables as possible. To not do so would, at best , be not worthy of trust. The problem was that the study design compared chiropractic manipulation to administration of a drug.  This is not a true controlled trial, but rather a comparison trial (although JMPT still referred to it as placebo controlled and single blinded). The investigators should have had a manipulation group and a sham group. Kirk, sham manipulation is fatally flawed.   How can you be certain the sham manipulation is not having an effect by accident. Not really.  Because the intent of the sham arm of the intervention is to essentially keep the parents blinded, and mimic the conditions of the experimental intervention MINUS the part being investigated.  One could in ensure that a real manipulation is not performed, as long as the parents can’t tell. Comparitive studies are the only way to go until you can develop benchmarks for the treatment. This, too, is not the case.  With a mere comparison study the conclusions that can be drawn are more prone to being erroneous. To determine if an adjustment (rather than just time spent with the patients, expectation bias, etc) is having an effect, a properly designed sham comparison is the only way to go.  Otherwise we are left with essentially useless studies like the one we are discussing now. Controlled studies give us much more useful information than comparisons studies.  Your anti-sham philosophy is simply yet another attempt to thwart scientific investigation of alternative modalities (like your arguments against sham acupuncture).  Should we now throw out all negative placebo controlled trials because we can never know if the inert placebo is having some magical, homeopathic, or unknown effect? This is essentially what you are saying if you extend your argument. — Kirk Kolas Ontario Veterinary College Class of 2002

Response:

I am not sold on the art of "sham" adjustments.  If there is any joint movement it will have some affect on the joint complex. — Dr. Roland R. Hicks Doctor of Chiropractic All good things come from above-down-inside-out Natural Alternative to Celebrex/Vioxx: http://drhicks.joint-pain.com/ Internet Marketing to Win: http://www.aboutimw.com/drhicks.html Nutrition Products and Information: http://freelife.com/Sites/drhicks/redir.cfm?page=/info/welcome/welcom… fm toll free (877) 791-8686

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "The one study did show that there was a reported improvement but since it was the mothers who reported the improvement the research was not definitive. Who should you ask if a baby’s colic is better?  I think the study is flawed since the measurement is strictly subjective and I hope that they can come up with a more structured study.  Colic is not easily quantified or classified." —- The problem with the design of this study was not really a problem with the measurement of "hours of crying".  This is a reasonable outcome measure, considering "colic" is operationally defined as increased hours of crying. The problem was that the study design compared chiropractic manipulation to administration of a drug.  This is not a true controlled trial, but rather a comparison trial (although JMPT still referred to it as placebo controlled and single blinded). The investigators should have had a manipulation group and a sham group. This way, the parents could be kept in the dark with respect to whether or not their child truly received an adjustment.  By comparing the outcomes of these two groups, the investigators could control for all those other factors that may be at play (e.g. expectation bias, handling of the child, increased time with the parents, etc…) I found it curious that JMPT also referred to the study as single blinded.  In my view it was not even single blinded because the "blinding" referred to the person evaluating the colic diary.  The outcome measure was simply total hours crying, so the diary evaluator, I presume, is simply adding up some numbers.  Blinding this individual is advantageous, but nothing to write home about.  Blinding the evaluators (the parents) is paramount. Nevertheless I have seen this rather poorly designed study touted in some forums.  I’d like to see it done properly with sham manipulation. I have never seen infant adjustments in person, but the couple of instances I have seen it on video, the "adjustments" were so subtle that I fear the investigators would have a hard time devising a convincing "sham" manipulation without actually replicating the adjustment arm of the study. And to end on a completely biased note: most pediatric adjustments look like sham adjustments to me in the first place. — Kirk Kolas Ontario Veterinary College Class of 2002

Response:

The problem was that the study design compared chiropractic manipulation to administration of a drug.  This is not a true controlled trial, but rather a comparison trial (although JMPT still referred to it as placebo controlled and single blinded). The investigators should have had a manipulation group and a sham group. Kirk, sham manipulation is fatally flawed.   How can you be certain the sham manipulation is not having an effect by accident.

Not really.  Because the intent of the sham arm of the intervention is to essentially keep the parents blinded, and mimic the conditions of the experimental intervention MINUS the part being investigated.  One could in ensure that a real manipulation is not performed, as long as the parents can’t tell.   Comparitive studies are the only way to go until you can develop benchmarks for the treatment.

This, too, is not the case.  With a mere comparison study the conclusions that can be drawn are more prone to being erroneous. To determine if an adjustment (rather than just time spent with the patients, expectation bias, etc) is having an effect, a properly designed sham comparison is the only way to go.  Otherwise we are left with essentially useless studies like the one we are discussing now. Controlled studies give us much more useful information than comparisons studies.  Your anti-sham philosophy is simply yet another attempt to thwart scientific investigation of alternative modalities (like your arguments against sham acupuncture).  Should we now throw out all negative placebo controlled trials because we can never know if the inert placebo is having some magical, homeopathic, or unknown effect? This is essentially what you are saying if you extend your argument. — Kirk Kolas Ontario Veterinary College Class of 2002

Response:

 Might not be a bad idea to look at all such trials, and shine today’s knowledge on them. I think one might find many old truths to no longer be so. And some to be so. There is much info out there which strongly suggests that we are effected on many subtle levels. By not taking that into account, we can only have faulty or inaccurate information. Surly someone would try to eliminate as many variables as possible. To not do so would, at best , be not worthy of trust.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The problem was that the study design compared chiropractic manipulation to administration of a drug.  This is not a true controlled trial, but rather a comparison trial (although JMPT still referred to it as placebo controlled and single blinded). The investigators should have had a manipulation group and a sham group. Kirk, sham manipulation is fatally flawed.   How can you be certain the sham manipulation is not having an effect by accident. Not really.  Because the intent of the sham arm of the intervention is to essentially keep the parents blinded, and mimic the conditions of the experimental intervention MINUS the part being investigated.  One could in ensure that a real manipulation is not performed, as long as the parents can’t tell. Comparitive studies are the only way to go until you can develop benchmarks for the treatment. This, too, is not the case.  With a mere comparison study the conclusions that can be drawn are more prone to being erroneous. To determine if an adjustment (rather than just time spent with the patients, expectation bias, etc) is having an effect, a properly designed sham comparison is the only way to go.  Otherwise we are left with essentially useless studies like the one we are discussing now. Controlled studies give us much more useful information than comparisons studies.  Your anti-sham philosophy is simply yet another attempt to thwart scientific investigation of alternative modalities (like your arguments against sham acupuncture).  Should we now throw out all negative placebo controlled trials because we can never know if the inert placebo is having some magical, homeopathic, or unknown effect? This is essentially what you are saying if you extend your argument. — Kirk Kolas Ontario Veterinary College Class of 2002

Response:

The problem was that the study design compared chiropractic manipulation to administration of a drug.  This is not a true controlled trial, but rather a comparison trial (although JMPT still referred to it as placebo controlled and single blinded).   The investigators should have had a manipulation group and a sham group.

Kirk, sham manipulation is fatally flawed.   How can you be certain the sham manipulation is not having an effect by accident. It’s like using a random drug off the shelves as a placebo, you have no idea what its effects will be on the participants in this study. Comparitive studies are the only way to go until you can develop benchmarks for the treatment. Best wishes — John Bain UK TV Sound Director, magnotherapy user & distributor http://members.aol.com/JBainSI/Magnotherapy.html Surround Sound for Television

Response:

John, Suppose it is simply the child’s karma to be (eventually) free of Colic.  How can we be sure the adjustment, sham adjustment, or other method is not stealing the credit owed to Karma. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The problem was that the study design compared chiropractic manipulation to administration of a drug.  This is not a true controlled trial, but rather a comparison trial (although JMPT still referred to it as placebo controlled and single blinded). The investigators should have had a manipulation group and a sham group. Kirk, sham manipulation is fatally flawed.   How can you be certain the sham manipulation is not having an effect by accident. It’s like using a random drug off the shelves as a placebo, you have no idea what its effects will be on the participants in this study. Comparitive studies are the only way to go until you can develop benchmarks for the treatment. Best wishes — John Bain UK TV Sound Director, magnotherapy user & distributor http://members.aol.com/JBainSI/Magnotherapy.html Surround Sound for Television

Before you buy.

Response:

"The one study did show that there was a reported improvement but since it was the mothers who reported the improvement the research was not definitive. Who should you ask if a baby’s colic is better?  I think the study is flawed since the measurement is strictly subjective and I hope that they can come up with a more structured study.  Colic is not easily quantified or classified."   —- The problem with the design of this study was not really a problem with the measurement of "hours of crying".  This is a reasonable outcome measure, considering "colic" is operationally defined as increased hours of crying. The problem was that the study design compared chiropractic manipulation to administration of a drug.  This is not a true controlled trial, but rather a comparison trial (although JMPT still referred to it as placebo controlled and single blinded).   The investigators should have had a manipulation group and a sham group. This way, the parents could be kept in the dark with respect to whether or not their child truly received an adjustment.  By comparing the outcomes of these two groups, the investigators could control for all those other factors that may be at play (e.g. expectation bias, handling of the child, increased time with the parents, etc…) I found it curious that JMPT also referred to the study as single blinded.  In my view it was not even single blinded because the "blinding" referred to the person evaluating the colic diary.  The outcome measure was simply total hours crying, so the diary evaluator, I presume, is simply adding up some numbers.  Blinding this individual is advantageous, but nothing to write home about.  Blinding the evaluators (the parents) is paramount. Nevertheless I have seen this rather poorly designed study touted in some forums.  I’d like to see it done properly with sham manipulation. I have never seen infant adjustments in person, but the couple of instances I have seen it on video, the "adjustments" were so subtle that I fear the investigators would have a hard time devising a convincing "sham" manipulation without actually replicating the adjustment arm of the study. And to end on a completely biased note: most pediatric adjustments look like sham adjustments to me in the first place.   — Kirk Kolas Ontario Veterinary College Class of 2002

Response:

"Chiropractors are nervous system specialists with a focus on orthopedics. In other words, chiropractors are concerned with mechanical stressors on the nervous system. The nervous system controls all of the blood vessels in the body (via the sympathetic division of the autonomic nervous system). Every tissue in the body needs a healthy blood supply (for nourishment and waste removal). This blood supply is predicated upon having blood vessels functioning properly. Sympathetic innervation causes vasoconstriction (narrows arteries and arterioles), and thus diminishes the blood supply to an area. Profound reduction in blood supply results in hypoxia (decreased oxygen supply). This results in an ischemic condition, resulting in cellular death, and possible necrosis of the tissue. And thus, the functional integrity of the tissue is compromised." "A man may be a fool and not know it – but not if he is married." H.L. Mencken http://www.lifehousemusic.com/lh_music.html catchytune. says me.

Response:

– Dr. Roland R. Hicks Doctor of Chiropractic All good things come from above-down-inside-out Natural Alternative to Celebrex/Vioxx: http://drhicks.joint-pain.com/ Internet Marketing to Win: http://www.aboutimw.com/drhicks.html Nutrition Products and Information: http://freelife.com/Sites/drhicks/redir.cfm?page=/info/welcome/welcom… fm toll free (877) 791-8686

Here are some starter questions: (A) What is a chiropractic subluxation?

Atlas gave a good explanation, however I like to use common language to describet a subluxtion.  It is first and foremost the main object of a theory which attempts to explain what a chiropractor treats.  It is not proven for if it was it would not be a theory.  A subluxation in chiropractic terms is an abnormal positon or movement of the spinal bones/joints which cause a change in the function of the nervous system and to the extent that the nervous system is affected so the subjects health is affected.  Simply put a subluxation is anything which can cause negative effects on the nervous system and related to the structure of the body.  As Atlas stated that there are many causes of subluxations from injury, stress, metabolic, ect. (B) Can you identify one on a radiograph?  If not, what methods do you use to detect them?  How reliable are these methods?

There are instances in which the structural facet of a subluxation may be viewed on xray.  Since a subluxation is biomechanical, structural and neurological in origin one can not see the neurological or biomechanical aspects of a subluxation on a xray. Just as one cannot see the funtion of the sciatic nerve on a pelvic xray.  I propose a scenario to better understand the above explanation.  In my practice, I have the opportunity to see patients with disc degeneration on a daily basis.  These people come in with discs that have degenerated and thinned.  When the disc thins the bones(vertebrae) come closer together.  This caused the facet joints in the back of the spine to also come closer together(imburcate).  When these joints come closer together their biomechanics change and they are prone to Jamming upon extension movements or movements which cause an increase in the normal lumbar curve(lordosis).  Can you see these changes in the normal static Xrays?  yes Can you see the biomechanical changes on the xray? no biomechanical findings cannot be seen on a static test. Can you correlate your findings to the history and examination and predict the outcome of care? yes (C) Can a subluxation cause visceral disease (a la Meric chart)?

What is the Meric chart? A person can have a viscerosomatic reflex like having an upset stomach cause overall body weakness and malaise. A person can have a somatovisceral reflex like having hit one’s thumb with a hammer can cause stomach upset. A person can have a psychosomatic reflex in which they think they are sick and therefore they feel general muscle weakness and malaise. A person can have a somatopsychologica reflex in which the are hurt physically and it sets up the flight/fight reaction. This is the long way of answering the question asked.  Yes, a subluxation can be a cause of a visceral disease/condition/symptom.  The reverse is also part of the "subluxation theory" a visceral condition can reflex to the spine and cause pain and subluxation symptoms of the spine.  Ie. gall bladder causing pain in the right intrascapular region.  Cramping and lumbar muscle spasms and pain associated with painful menses in women are good examples of viscerosomatic reflexes.  The nerves travel both ways. (D) Can colic be treated chiropractically?

There is some clinical evidence that spinal manipulation can reduce the severity of colic however I believe the jury is still out on that one and more studies should be performed.  The one study did show that there was a reported improvement but since it was the mothers who reported the improvement the research was not definitive. Who should you ask if a baby’s colic is better?  I think the study is flawed since the measurement is strictly subjective and I hope that they can come up with a more structured study.  Colic is not easily quantified or classified.  Plus those little rug rats can’t comunicate other than crying or not crying.  My boy was diagnosed with a viral syndrome(possibly meningitis) when he was two months old.  We were up all night and went to the ER at 4AM due to his condition.  The only thing that would calm him was gentle motion of his hips and sacrum. Why? GOT ME.  The lumbar puncture was inconclusive.  I was explained by our pediatrician that just because you dip your hand into a barrel of pickles and don’t grab a pickle doesn’t mean that there are not pickles in there. We had to assume that the child had meningitis and treat it as such. (E) Can a correcting a subluxation help in childhood ear infections?

In my clinical experience, I would have to say emphatically YES.  Does it cure infections? NO I have treated approximately 20-30 children with chronic ear infections over the past 10 years and of those treated, in my observation 80-90% showed improvement in their condition.  Was it just the adjustments?  I doubt it.  I make sure that my patients keep on the medicinal regimine recommended by their medical doctor and simply try to improve the function of the cervical spine. I also try to make dietary changes for the child.  Do I understand the exact mechanism? NO  What my treatments are designed to do is increase drainage of the sinuses and aid in the drainage of the eustacian tube.  If there is restriction of motion in the upper neck causing reduce lymphatic drainage then this may be a factor in the condition.  My son has had chronic ear infections since he was one year old.  He has allergies and that plays a big role in his chronic infections.  I do gentle neck adjustments and skull craniopathy to aid in his congestion to clear his sinuses and have him on antibiotics only when an infection is present. The explanations provided are in no way complete and are for the purposes of presenting my experience.  If you have questions about the areas discussed or are unclear of what I was attempting to explain please ask me to clarify those areas. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have heard different chiropractors answer these questions differently.  We all know how a "Straight" chiropractor would answer them.  What do you think? — Kirk Kolas Ontario Veterinary College Class of 2002

Response:

If you have a question about chiropractic ask away.  I am not the ultimate expert but I may be able to help you none the less. If you had been to a chiropractor and had a question about the visit, rumors, theory, testing or even the question that you think others will think you are stupid to ask.  I’m on this newsgroup for enjoyment and if I can help another while I’m having fun then I’ve killed two birds with one stone. — Dr. Roland R. Hicks Doctor of Chiropractic All good things come from above-down-inside-out Natural Alternative to Celebrex/Vioxx: http://drhicks.joint-pain.com/ Internet Marketing to Win: http://www.aboutimw.com/drhicks.html Nutrition Products and Information http://freelife.com/Sites/drhicks/redir.cfm?page=/info/welcome/welcom… fm toll free (877) 791-8686

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If you have a question about chiropractic ask away.  I am not the ultimate expert but I may be able to help you none the less.

Here are some starter questions: (A) What is a chiropractic subluxation? (B) Can you identify one on a radiograph?  If not, what methods do you use to detect them?  How reliable are these methods? (C) Can a subluxation cause visceral disease (a la Meric chart)? (D) Can colic be treated chiropractically? (E) Can a correcting a subluxation help in childhood ear infections? I have heard different chiropractors answer these questions differently.  We all know how a "Straight" chiropractor would answer them.  What do you think? — Kirk Kolas Ontario Veterinary College Class of 2002

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I can answer these for you (A) What is a chiropractic subluxation?

The potential injury caused by unnecessary spinal manipulation. (B) Can you identify one on a radiograph?  If not, what methods do you use to detect them?  How reliable are these methods?

Only after a significant trauma.  Spiral CT scan is a very sensitive for delineating the extent of injury. (C) Can a subluxation cause visceral disease (a la Meric chart)?

No (D) Can colic be treated chiropractically?

No (E) Can a correcting a subluxation help in childhood ear infections?

Not really

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(A) What is a chiropractic subluxation?

If you asked a medical doctor and a chiropractor to define a subluxation, you would get two different answers. The medical profession defines a subluxation as: "A partial or incomplete dislocation."  (From Taber’s Cyclopedic Medical Dictionary).      The Chiropractic profession has a different definition (and thus – meaning) for a subluxation. Specifically, a subluxation is an articular lesion which has the following components: 1. Abnormal movement or position of a bone. (Kinesiopathology). In the spine, this could be at the intersegmental level (meaning one vertebra and the vertebra above and below it). Or it could be at the global level (meaning the posture). 2. Abnormal tissue. (Histopathology):  This includes nerves, muscle, ligaments, tendons, adipose tissue, fascia, lymphatics, blood vessels, etc.      Kinesiopathology is composed of rotations and translations. Histopathology is caused by deformations of the tissues [Davis' Law of soft tissues, Wolff's Law of hard tissues]. What causes a subluxation? Subluxations are caused by one of three things:      1. Trauma (Physical stress)      2. Thoughts (Emotional stress)      3. Toxins (Chemical stress) Is a Subluxation the cause of all disease?      There is no one cause for all disease.  If there was, we would have probably found it by now. There are numerous causes for disease. One thing which needs to be stressed at this point is that the human body was designed to be healthy. The body has an innate ability to repair itself from injury, and to fight off pathogens. We were not designed to have to rely on pills, potions, and powders to resolve the majority of our problems.      Chiropractors are nervous system specialists with a focus on orthopedics. In other words, chiropractors are concerned with mechanical stressors on the nervous system. The nervous system controls all of the blood vessels in the body (via the sympathetic division of the autonomic nervous system). Every tissue in the body needs a healthy blood supply (for nourishment and waste removal). This blood supply is predicated upon having blood vessels functioning properly. Sympathetic innervation causes vasoconstriction (narrows arteries and arterioles), and thus diminishes the blood supply to an area. Profound reduction in blood supply results in hypoxia (decreased oxygen supply). This results in an ischemic condition, resulting in cellular death, and possible necrosis of the tissue. And thus, the functional integrity of the tissue is compromised.      Chiropractors do not treat disease. They find and remove subluxations. However, if the subluxation is the cause of the disease, then by removing the subluxation, you are effectively resolving the problem. (B) Can you identify one on a radiograph?  If not, what methods do you use to detect them?  How reliable are these methods?

        The Chiropractic definition of a subluxation involves mechanical, biochemical, and neurophysiological components. Of these, the mechanical component is visible on an x-ray. The neurological, and physiological components are not visible on an x-ray. Chiropractors study x-ray films with line drawing analysis. And with these, they can take precise measurements to determine if the bone(s) are subluxated.      Your chiropractor will only order an x-ray if he/she feels it is necessary. Precautions are used to ensure that you are exposed to the absolutely minimum possible radioation dose. These include lead shielding, high speed films, collimation, and screens. (C) Can a subluxation cause visceral disease (a la Meric chart)?

        Chiropractic has but one purpose. And that is to find and remove subluxations. If the subluxation is the cause of the dis-ease in the body, then it logically follows that by removing the subluxation (the cause), then you’re going to remove the dis-ease (the effect).      However, the subluxation is not the root of every health care problem. There are many reasons why people get sick. Interestingly enough, Chiropractic could help boost the immune system of the patient, so that their own innate immunity is stronger, and the body is better able to rid itself of the disease process. See: http://www.geocities.com/cbpdoc/neuroimmune.html (D) Can colic be treated chiropractically?

        Only if the colic is caused by vertebral subluxation. (E) Can a correcting a subluxation help in childhood ear infections?

        Only if the ear infections are caused by vertebral subluxation. I have heard different chiropractors answer these questions differently.  We all know how a "Straight" chiropractor would answer them.  What do you think?

        Now you know.

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Question:

Im looking for any information regarding results people have found using Manerix or other antidepressants for treating Panic

Response:

Im looking for any information regarding results people have found using Manerix or other antidepressants for treating Panic

Manerix is one of the so-called "reversible" MAOI antidepressants. The main advantage it seems to have over traditional MAOIs (Nardil and Parnate) is that it doesn’t impose the hefty food restrictions they do. Against that, it seems to have picked up a reputation for not being very wonderful against PD, though *some* have reported successes with it so it might be worth a try. I was on it for a few months. They were the most expensive M&Ms I’ve ever bought — Gary Cooper

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Marks) writes: Org.  : York University Im looking for any information regarding results people have found using Manerix or other antidepressants for treating Panic

Dear Brad (?), Hello, and welcome to ASAP! Depending on what you want the info for, you may have to be a little more specific… I monitor this group fairly regularly, and would hazard a conservative guess that at least 50% of us are on some sort of antidepressant. Some are on the older types (e.g., imiprimine, etc.) while many others are on the newer SSRI’s (Prozac, Zoloft, Effexor, etc.) Some take an antidepressant alone, others take a combination of antidepressant plus a benzodiazapine …again, the benzos seem to range from good ol’ Valium to newer things like Xanax (alprazolam) or Rivotril (called Klonopin in the U.S., available here in Canada as generic "clonazapam".) Still others take only the benzo with no antidepressant. In this, as in so many areas of life, the watchword is YMMV (your mileage may vary.) For example, I take .5 mg Rivotril (clonazapam) and 10 mg imiprimine once a day, at bedtime, which seems to keep my panic attacks at bay. My doc has suggested a switch to Zoloft and gradually dropping the Rivotril, but I’m foot-dragging… partly due to fear of change (and possibly having to experience a flood of panic attacks) and partly due to the increased $$ I will have to spend on meds if I decide to switch. Hope this helps, Jane. —

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