Question:

WK, Now that you’re getting some relief with Xanax, are you going to try getting back into the work world?  Considering how long you’ve had to stay away, you might want to check with your local gov’t., your doctor, whoever, to see if there is "dept." set up to help people with mental disabilities re-enter the work force.  I’d like to say that potential employers will probably just gloss over your 2 year absence, but that’s unlikely.  Sad to say, but there’s still tons of ignorance and some stigma attached to having a disorder.  Anyway, getting back to some sort of go between organization, if it exists, (and I know it does in some states in the U.S.), such a dept. can smooth the waters some in locating employers who’re interested in what you can do and will have been properly briefed that you have an anxiety disorder, but are being treated for it.  Something else to think about, and you may already be doing this, is that for an interview or any particularly stressful event, I’ve found that taking an extra dose or two of Xanax all at once just before the ordeal can make it a lot less stressful. I had to experiment some to find the right amount and you may too (not enuf vs. too much).  Good luck. Doug On 2 Feb 2002 22:19:52 -0800, vegasrules…@yahoo.com (White Knight) wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

I am sick and tired about all these posts trying to scare people away from trying xanax.  As someone who has suffered from bipolar disorder(type 2) for 15 years, tried all the antidepressants, now on a cocktail of meds, including xanax and paxil, my experience is that PAXIL has many more adverse effects versus the marginal benefit of some anxiety relief.  I took Paxil for 5 months and was not taking any xanax, and I got some anticapation anxiety relief at the cost of NO LIBIDO, sleeping 12 hours a day, having no motivation, just didn’t give a shit, already gained 10 pounds in 5 months with the carbo craving…..And people want to talk about xanax dependency and problems with withdrawl.  I am not trying to minimize people’s experience or their pain, but with anxiety or other mental health issues, the word is YOUR MILEAGE MAY VARY(YMMY).  I am a college graduate in electrical engineering from a top 5 engineering college, and now have not worked for over two years mostly because of anxiety and some depression yearly.  After working for 11 years struggling with depression and anxiety, I now have a hard time stepping outside my home.  I have considered suicide 1000’s of times over the last 15 years, actually researched and made the plans and was about to end it, and then I started on the Paxil…….Yeah, my suicidal obsessions went away, but now I was content to veg out all day watching TY or on the Net, my desire to GET A JOB disappeared.  Go research web sites and you will see how many people have problems with SSRI’s, yeah they are alive and taking that $3 pill two times a day or many $3 pills for me, but now I am NUMB and just there.  Prior to Paxil I use to be a emotional person, felt the pain of others and would cry when touched by something, but now I am a Paxil-zombie, yeah some anxiety relief but a LOT OF ME is also gone.  So all those xanax phobics, please allow people to fail with their options without scaring them.  What are people’s choices when it comes to anxiety or panic, yes paxil, yes benzo’s, yes MAIO’s, yes CBT(Cognitive Behavior Therapy).  My experience is PAXIL SUCKS and THE WITHDRAWAL IS HORRIBLE BASED ON MUCH FEEDBACK I HAVE READ ON THE NET, MAIO’S like parnate have some studies that back them up but the food restrictions are VERY DIFFICULT(no cheese, wine, beer, chocolate, many OTC meds, etc.), CBT might work for some but the feedback I have heard is that CBT plus meds work the best and I HAVE DONE THE THERAPY ROUTE and it was a waste of money. As one doctor told me, people who suffer from PANIC and think they are dieing have never been told that "your not going to die, it is all in your head"…Well that was my last session with him.  Just to repeat, this is MY EXPERIENCE and YOUR MILEAGE MAY VARY.  Now I could continue to HIBERNATE IN MY HOUSE, NOT WORK, RUN OUT OF MONEY AND THEN BE HOMELESS…..Or I can be proactive and continue to experiment and try to find some solution that will allow me to work and have a life.  I have taken xanax in the past, just started it one month ago, still taking a low dose of paxil, and I am MUCH MUCH BETTER at dealing with day to day life, interacting with people, giving my shit done, etc. Yeah, maybe I will be taking xanax for the rest of my life but the only side effect I have had is some sleepiness.  And to those who talk about TOLERANCE BUILDUP, that is a CROCK, yes you might have to increase your xanax from .25mg 3 times a day to .50mg 3 times a day, or even 1mg 3 times a day……..The fact is that people level out, there are people who have taken xanax for 5 to 15 years and most leveled out after 1 year at a dose and have no desire to increase. People need to do some research and FIND OUT THE REAL TRUTH, not what BIG PHARMA and BIG BUSINESS OWNED MEDIA OUTLETS want us to believe. Not to be cynical, but $3 no generic available paxil is much better for DRUG COMPANIES, then CHEAP GENERIC XANAX which might be more effective with less side-effects.  Why are benzo’s so hard to get, cause drug lobbiest have access to CONGRESS and made sure that THE NO-PROFIT SOLUTIONS(IE LIKE BENZO’S) are not readily available. Let me make THE NEWCOMERS TO MENTAL ILLNESS aware that HYPE ABOUT THE LATEST ANTIDEPRESSANT HAS EVERYTHING TO DO WITH THE BILLIONS OF DOLLARS THAT WILL BE MADE ON THE DRUG, and the only time you will hear about THE NEGATIVES about that drug will be when it comes off-patent. Now that we have generic prozac, we will hear more about side effects like NO LIBIDO, WEIGHT GAIN, SUICIDE, AND OTHER  EFEECTS.  Of course, as long as Paxil and Zoloft have no generics, MEDIA HYPE will be still muted, but give it time.  Just as all the SSRI’s go generic, we will hear about ALL THE NEGATIVES and out will come the new batch of 8 TO 12 WEEK STUDIED ANTIDEPRESSANTS to start the new profit cycle.  People with mental illness are just pawns, half ass useless meds are approved based on 8 week studies, NO REASON FOR A LONG TERM STUDY, we really don’t want to KNOW THE TRUTH, and as soon as the generics start rolling out, OUT COMES THE DIRTY LAUNDRY, not to HELP US, NO, ONLY SO THAT WE GO ON THE LATEST $5 PILL THAT HAS A 80% SUCCESS RATE AND EVEN LESS SIDE EFFECTS.  Hell as long as everyone is making money, who cares about THE CRAZIES that take the product, we just need them alive and taking their meds.  Now I forget, was I taking about the cigarette industry or drug companies, HELL WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE.  This of course is just the opinion of a mentally ill patient with 15 years of experience popping pills, all of which have a 70% effective rate, but I guess I am the exception, "ALIVE" AND NOT SUICIDAL, AND NOT HAPPY ABOUT IT. White Knight

Response:

White Knight wrote:

I am sick and tired about all these posts trying to scare people away from trying xanax.  As someone who has suffered from bipolar disorder(type 2) for 15 years, tried all the antidepressants, now on a cocktail of meds, including xanax and paxil, my experience is that PAXIL has many more adverse effects versus the marginal benefit of some anxiety relief.  I took Paxil for 5 months and was not taking any xanax, and I got some anticapation anxiety relief at the cost of NO

Which posts? Anyway do you get pre, during and post anxiety or just anticipation and during anxiety? Cause I get all three and am curious about your experience. I the amount I get of each one depends on the situation. Richard — Registered Lunatic #100347

Response:

I..Am..A..Paxil..Zom Bie..You..Need..To Chill..Out..Man.. Simon. "White Knight" <vegasrules…@yahoo.com

wrote in message

news:28eafa9a.0202022219.7ee7d068@posting.google.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

I am sick and tired about all these posts trying to scare people away from trying xanax.  As someone who has suffered from bipolar disorder(type 2) for 15 years, tried all the antidepressants, now on a cocktail of meds, including xanax and paxil, my experience is that PAXIL has many more adverse effects versus the marginal benefit of some anxiety relief.  I took Paxil for 5 months and was not taking any xanax, and I got some anticapation anxiety relief at the cost of NO LIBIDO, sleeping 12 hours a day, having no motivation, just didn’t give a shit, already gained 10 pounds in 5 months with the carbo craving…..And people want to talk about xanax dependency and problems with withdrawl.  I am not trying to minimize people’s experience or their pain, but with anxiety or other mental health issues, the word is YOUR MILEAGE MAY VARY(YMMY).  I am a college graduate in electrical engineering from a top 5 engineering college, and now have not worked for over two years mostly because of anxiety and some depression yearly.  After working for 11 years struggling with depression and anxiety, I now have a hard time stepping outside my home.  I have considered suicide 1000’s of times over the last 15 years, actually researched and made the plans and was about to end it, and then I started on the Paxil…….Yeah, my suicidal obsessions went away, but now I was content to veg out all day watching TY or on the Net, my desire to GET A JOB disappeared.  Go research web sites and you will see how many people have problems with SSRI’s, yeah they are alive and taking that $3 pill two times a day or many $3 pills for me, but now I am NUMB and just there.  Prior to Paxil I use to be a emotional person, felt the pain of others and would cry when touched by something, but now I am a Paxil-zombie, yeah some anxiety relief but a LOT OF ME is also gone.  So all those xanax phobics, please allow people to fail with their options without scaring them.  What are people’s choices when it comes to anxiety or panic, yes paxil, yes benzo’s, yes MAIO’s, yes CBT(Cognitive Behavior Therapy).  My experience is PAXIL SUCKS and THE WITHDRAWAL IS HORRIBLE BASED ON MUCH FEEDBACK I HAVE READ ON THE NET, MAIO’S like parnate have some studies that back them up but the food restrictions are VERY DIFFICULT(no cheese, wine, beer, chocolate, many OTC meds, etc.), CBT might work for some but the feedback I have heard is that CBT plus meds work the best and I HAVE DONE THE THERAPY ROUTE and it was a waste of money. As one doctor told me, people who suffer from PANIC and think they are dieing have never been told that "your not going to die, it is all in your head"…Well that was my last session with him.  Just to repeat, this is MY EXPERIENCE and YOUR MILEAGE MAY VARY.  Now I could continue to HIBERNATE IN MY HOUSE, NOT WORK, RUN OUT OF MONEY AND THEN BE HOMELESS…..Or I can be proactive and continue to experiment and try to find some solution that will allow me to work and have a life.  I have taken xanax in the past, just started it one month ago, still taking a low dose of paxil, and I am MUCH MUCH BETTER at dealing with day to day life, interacting with people, giving my shit done, etc. Yeah, maybe I will be taking xanax for the rest of my life but the only side effect I have had is some sleepiness.  And to those who talk about TOLERANCE BUILDUP, that is a CROCK, yes you might have to increase your xanax from .25mg 3 times a day to .50mg 3 times a day, or even 1mg 3 times a day……..The fact is that people level out, there are people who have taken xanax for 5 to 15 years and most leveled out after 1 year at a dose and have no desire to increase. People need to do some research and FIND OUT THE REAL TRUTH, not what BIG PHARMA and BIG BUSINESS OWNED MEDIA OUTLETS want us to believe. Not to be cynical, but $3 no generic available paxil is much better for DRUG COMPANIES, then CHEAP GENERIC XANAX which might be more effective with less side-effects.  Why are benzo’s so hard to get, cause drug lobbiest have access to CONGRESS and made sure that THE NO-PROFIT SOLUTIONS(IE LIKE BENZO’S) are not readily available. Let me make THE NEWCOMERS TO MENTAL ILLNESS aware that HYPE ABOUT THE LATEST ANTIDEPRESSANT HAS EVERYTHING TO DO WITH THE BILLIONS OF DOLLARS THAT WILL BE MADE ON THE DRUG, and the only time you will hear about THE NEGATIVES about that drug will be when it comes off-patent. Now that we have generic prozac, we will hear more about side effects like NO LIBIDO, WEIGHT GAIN, SUICIDE, AND OTHER  EFEECTS.  Of course, as long as Paxil and Zoloft have no generics, MEDIA HYPE will be still muted, but give it time.  Just as all the SSRI’s go generic, we will hear about ALL THE NEGATIVES and out will come the new batch of 8 TO 12 WEEK STUDIED ANTIDEPRESSANTS to start the new profit cycle.  People with mental illness are just pawns, half ass useless meds are approved based on 8 week studies, NO REASON FOR A LONG TERM STUDY, we really don’t want to KNOW THE TRUTH, and as soon as the generics start rolling out, OUT COMES THE DIRTY LAUNDRY, not to HELP US, NO, ONLY SO THAT WE GO ON THE LATEST $5 PILL THAT HAS A 80% SUCCESS RATE AND EVEN LESS SIDE EFFECTS.  Hell as long as everyone is making money, who cares about THE CRAZIES that take the product, we just need them alive and taking their meds.  Now I forget, was I taking about the cigarette industry or drug companies, HELL WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE.  This of course is just the opinion of a mentally ill patient with 15 years of experience popping pills, all of which have a 70% effective rate, but I guess I am the exception, "ALIVE" AND NOT SUICIDAL, AND NOT HAPPY ABOUT IT. White Knight

Response:

I am sick and tired about all these posts trying to scare people away from trying xanax.  As someone who has suffered from bipolar disorder(type 2) for 15 years, tried all the antidepressants, now on a cocktail of meds, including xanax and paxil, my experience is that PAXIL has many more adverse effects versus the marginal benefit of some anxiety relief.  I took Paxil for 5 months and was not taking any xanax, and I got some anticapation anxiety relief at the cost of NO LIBIDO, sleeping 12 hours a day, having no motivation, just didn’t give a shit, already gained 10 pounds in 5 months with the carbo craving…..And people want to talk about xanax dependency and problems with withdrawl.  I am not trying to minimize people’s experience or their pain, but with anxiety or other mental health issues, the word is YOUR MILEAGE MAY VARY(YMMY).  I am a college graduate in electrical engineering from a top 5 engineering college, and now have not worked for over two years mostly because of anxiety and some depression yearly.  After working for 11 years struggling with depression and anxiety, I now have a hard time stepping outside my home.  I have considered suicide 1000’s of times over the last 15 years, actually researched and made the plans and was about to end it, and then I started on the Paxil…….Yeah, my suicidal obsessions went away, but now I was content to veg out all day watching TY or on the Net, my desire to GET A JOB disappeared.  Go research web sites and you will see how many people have problems with SSRI’s, yeah they are alive and taking that $3 pill two times a day or many $3 pills for me, but now I am NUMB and just there.  Prior to Paxil I use to be a emotional person, felt the pain of others and would cry when touched by something, but now I am a Paxil-zombie, yeah some anxiety relief but a LOT OF ME is also gone.  So all those xanax phobics, please allow people to fail with their options without scaring them.  What are people’s choices when it comes to anxiety or panic, yes paxil, yes benzo’s, yes MAIO’s, yes CBT(Cognitive Behavior Therapy).  My experience is PAXIL SUCKS and THE WITHDRAWAL IS HORRIBLE BASED ON MUCH FEEDBACK I HAVE READ ON THE NET, MAIO’S like parnate have some studies that back them up but the food restrictions are VERY DIFFICULT(no cheese, wine, beer, chocolate, many OTC meds, etc.), CBT might work for some but the feedback I have heard is that CBT plus meds work the best and I HAVE DONE THE THERAPY ROUTE and it was a waste of money. As one doctor told me, people who suffer from PANIC and think they are dieing have never been told that "your not going to die, it is all in your head"…Well that was my last session with him.  Just to repeat, this is MY EXPERIENCE and YOUR MILEAGE MAY VARY.  Now I could continue to HIBERNATE IN MY HOUSE, NOT WORK, RUN OUT OF MONEY AND THEN BE HOMELESS…..Or I can be proactive and continue to experiment and try to find some solution that will allow me to work and have a life.  I have taken xanax in the past, just started it one month ago, still taking a low dose of paxil, and I am MUCH MUCH BETTER at dealing with day to day life, interacting with people, giving my shit done, etc. Yeah, maybe I will be taking xanax for the rest of my life but the only side effect I have had is some sleepiness.  And to those who talk about TOLERANCE BUILDUP, that is a CROCK, yes you might have to increase your xanax from .25mg 3 times a day to .50mg 3 times a day, or even 1mg 3 times a day……..The fact is that people level out, there are people who have taken xanax for 5 to 15 years and most leveled out after 1 year at a dose and have no desire to increase. People need to do some research and FIND OUT THE REAL TRUTH, not what BIG PHARMA and BIG BUSINESS OWNED MEDIA OUTLETS want us to believe. Not to be cynical, but $3 no generic available paxil is much better for DRUG COMPANIES, then CHEAP GENERIC XANAX which might be more effective with less side-effects.  Why are benzo’s so hard to get, cause drug lobbiest have access to CONGRESS and made sure that THE NO-PROFIT SOLUTIONS(IE LIKE BENZO’S) are not readily available. Let me make THE NEWCOMERS TO MENTAL ILLNESS aware that HYPE ABOUT THE LATEST ANTIDEPRESSANT HAS EVERYTHING TO DO WITH THE BILLIONS OF DOLLARS THAT WILL BE MADE ON THE DRUG, and the only time you will hear about THE NEGATIVES about that drug will be when it comes off-patent. Now that we have generic prozac, we will hear more about side effects like NO LIBIDO, WEIGHT GAIN, SUICIDE, AND OTHER  EFEECTS.  Of course, as long as Paxil and Zoloft have no generics, MEDIA HYPE will be still muted, but give it time.  Just as all the SSRI’s go generic, we will hear about ALL THE NEGATIVES and out will come the new batch of 8 TO 12 WEEK STUDIED ANTIDEPRESSANTS to start the new profit cycle.  People with mental illness are just pawns, half ass useless meds are approved based on 8 week studies, NO REASON FOR A LONG TERM STUDY, we really don’t want to KNOW THE TRUTH, and as soon as the generics start rolling out, OUT COMES THE DIRTY LAUNDRY, not to HELP US, NO, ONLY SO THAT WE GO ON THE LATEST $5 PILL THAT HAS A 80% SUCCESS RATE AND EVEN LESS SIDE EFFECTS.  Hell as long as everyone is making money, who cares about THE CRAZIES that take the product, we just need them alive and taking their meds.  Now I forget, was I taking about the cigarette industry or drug companies, HELL WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE.  This of course is just the opinion of a mentally ill patient with 15 years of experience popping pills, all of which have a 70% effective rate, but I guess I am the exception, "ALIVE" AND NOT SUICIDAL, AND NOT HAPPY ABOUT IT. White Knight

Response:

Question:

Long story made short… I’m 37 yrs old and was diagnosed w/ asthma 3 yrs ago. After doing much research I’ve come to the conclusion that I’ve had asthma since childhood but was never diagnosed. Since childhood I’ve always had some skin irritation (P) in very small patches on my shins and scalp which was easily cleared  w/ topicals. Since starting on Serevent and Flovent, however, I cannot clear the P and it has actually spread to my forearms, neck, elbows, and calves. I’ve eliminated just about any other factor. Has anybody had a similar experience. Am I crazy in relating the two? My derm thinks so. -B

Response:

I also have a similar background as you. I am 35 years old. I have had asthma since 2. I have had small p patches on my scalp and around my mouth since 15. I have stopped using topicals for my p. Although the spots do go away short term after the treatment, the p would always come back a bit worse after I stop the application. So I have decided the short term clearing is just not worth the potential long term risks for me. As for my asthma, it has gotten much better since my teenager years. It’s now less than 1 attack per year with no maintenance medication. Don’t know if it’s puberty or the fact that I took up karate around the same time. When I do have an asthma attack, from say exposure to doggy dander, I usually just control it with an otc spray. I haven’t thought about any connection between my asthma and p. I will pay more attention to see if my p gets worse after an asthma attack/otc spray. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Long story made short… I’m 37 yrs old and was diagnosed w/ asthma 3 yrs ago. After doing much research I’ve come to the conclusion that I’ve had asthma since childhood but was never diagnosed. Since childhood I’ve always had some skin irritation (P) in very small patches on my shins and scalp which was easily cleared  w/ topicals. Since starting on Serevent and Flovent, however, I cannot clear the P and it has actually spread to my forearms, neck, elbows, and calves. I’ve eliminated just about any other factor. Has anybody had a similar experience. Am I crazy in relating the two? My derm thinks so. -B

Response:

Question:

::I went to Roel this morning, and I have still the zoloft. ::But I take now 2x 50mg, first I had 3x 50mg. ::I will see him back in 14 days, and than we will talk again abaut the med. ::And we will than talk also abaut the problems I have, ::with the deadt of my sister, and why it is so difficult for me. Dear Diana, I hope the Zoloft reduction helps. I agree with Philip in that I don’t understand why nothing more was done at this appt.  You’ve been suffering long enough. (((((Diana))))) Jackie ~*~Life was so much easier when your clothes didn’t match and boys had cooties~*~ — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

My dear Family . I went to Roel this morning, and I have still the zoloft. But I take now 2x 50mg, first I had 3x 50mg. I will see him back in 14 days, and than we will talk again abaut the med. And we will than talk also abaut the problems I have, with the deadt of my sister, and why it is so difficult for me. I will let you know how things are going. Love Diana — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi, Diana, I hope this med adjustment is successful for you. Dealing with the death of a loved one takes time.  Your sister was a valuable piece of your life but you will make it through this… smiles, Elise

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My dear Family . I went to Roel this morning, and I have still the zoloft. But I take now 2x 50mg, first I had 3x 50mg. I will see him back in 14 days, and than we will talk again abaut the med. And we will than talk also abaut the problems I have, with the deadt of my sister, and why it is so difficult for me. I will let you know how things are going. Love Diana — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

I wish you the very best with this med change, Diana.  I hope you can, somehow, deal with the death of your sister.  I know how close you were and I would feel the same.  Thinking of you.  {{{{{Diana}}}}} Love, Di

My dear Family . I went to Roel this morning, and I have still the zoloft. But I take now 2x 50mg, first I had 3x 50mg. I will see him back in 14 days, and than we will talk again abaut the med. And we will than talk also abaut the problems I have, with the deadt of my sister, and why it is so difficult for me. I will let you know how things are going. Love Diana

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Diana schreef: My dear Family . I went to Roel this morning, and I have still the zoloft. But I take now 2x 50mg, first I had 3x 50mg. I will see him back in 14 days, and than we will talk again abaut the med. And we will than talk also abaut the problems I have, with the deadt of my sister, and why it is so difficult for me.

I wonder why he didn’t talk with you about your medication now instead of postponing it. The same goes for talking about your sister’s death. You were scheduled for aan appointment, weren’t you? Or didn’t he have enough time? Well, you will survive another two weeks but it’s a bit disappointing that nothing was talked about. Maybe lowering ther Zoloft dose is a good idea. Philip — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Question:

Thanks.  Sorry about the repost that appears as gibberish.  I had previously used an anonymous posting service but thought it did not work since I got no response for hours.  I also did not know the posting service posted everything in html. Yes, that is correct.  when off zoloft I get impulsive and aggresive. I will agree the Zoloft is helping but I do not want to take it forever.  It has many side effects as you probably know.  I actually liked the feeling of being ‘high’ when being off the zoloft.  I had forgotten what it was like. I only restarted to take it to see if I went back to my previous socially more likeable state.  I also started back to calm down a bit and make sure I did not do or say anything impulsive that might cause problems at work. My goal is to find out what is causing the non-zoloft feelings and behaviors.  I am beginning to think definetely a physiological basis but sometimes I wonder if it is some sort of personality problem. This is the first medicine I have taken my whole life that has made a difference but I would like to see if there is another way to get cured.  Maybe its a sugar problem, hormonal problem, etc and the zoloft just softens the blow of the physiological imbalance. bg – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, and welcome to ASD ) Do you mean that you’ve had the impulsive, aggresive, feelings only when not taking ‘Zoloft’?  If that is so then perhaps the ‘Zoloft’ is helping you.  If you find that you still get episodes of the feelings you don’t want, even while taking the ‘Zoloft’, then you need to tell your doctor so that other treatments can be considered.

Response:

Can you try sending this message again, but in ‘plain text’?  The format isn’t recognised by any of my software.  Sorry ((

You too, eh? I wonder what software was used to compose it. — Compute Free: <http://debian.org <http://freedos.org <http://openbsd.org Help People:  <http://rawa.org <http://tibet.org <http://gadenrelief.org Do Something: <http://www.msf.org <http://www.icrc.org/ <http://icbl.org Now: <http://www.foei.org <http://www.greenpeace.org <http://activist.ca

Response:

<html<div style=’background-color:’<DIV <DIV <DIV <DIVHello.</DIV <DIV&nbsp;</DIV

snip Can you try sending this message again, but in ‘plain text’?  The format isn’t recognised by any of my software.  Sorry (( — —  Whiskers

Response:

<html<div style=’background-color:’<DIV

Your message body is not in news format nor proper HTML. It is very difficult to read. We’re mostly a bunch of depressoids who have enough trouble even doing simple things. Could you post again in plain text? — Compute Free: <http://debian.org <http://freedos.org <http://openbsd.org Help People:  <http://rawa.org <http://tibet.org <http://gadenrelief.org Do Something: <http://www.msf.org <http://www.icrc.org/ <http://icbl.org Now: <http://www.foei.org <http://www.greenpeace.org <http://activist.ca

Response:

<html<div style=’background-color:’<DIV <DIV <DIV <DIVHello.</DIV <DIV&nbsp;</DIV <DIVBrief Summary:</DIV <DIV <DIVMy age is 34 and gender is male.&nbsp; </DIV</DIV <DIVBeen a sufferer of anxiety/depression for 20 years.&nbsp; </DIV <DIVAbout 2 years ago started taking zoloft for anxiety attacks that were the largest ever in my adult life.&nbsp; </DIV <DIV <DIV2 years ago I was also diagnosed with hypo-thyroid.&nbsp; My hypo is no longer a problem due to synthroid.</DIV <DIVStarted taking zoloft and synthroid at the same time. </DIV</DIV <DIVThe zoloft helped the anxiety and also helped with social anxiety.&nbsp; Never felt better in my whole life.</DIV <DIV&nbsp;</DIV <DIVAbout 1 month ago, I stopped zoloft cold turkey.&nbsp; Had some physical reactions to stopping but those</DIV <DIVcleared after about 2 weeks.&nbsp; However I became hyper, gained a big ego, became aggressive, some impulse</DIV <DIVproblems, felt kind of on the edge of losing control with anger and with happiness,&nbsp;more energetic, and </DIV <DIVthe mind kept racing.</DIV <DIV&nbsp;</DIV <DIVAfter seeing my doctor (Psychiatrist) he asked if I wanted to go back on the zoloft to see if the problems</DIV <DIVwent away. I started taking 50 mg and within 3 days I was back to how I was before the Zoloft.&nbsp; This appearance</DIV <DIVand disappearance does not seem to fit the pattern for bi-polar. Since zoloft is not for bi-polar and second</DIV <DIVthe opposite if anything would have happened.&nbsp; eg, hyper on zoloft, not hyper off it.</DIV <DIV&nbsp;</DIV <DIVI do not think these feelings and behaviors were due to stopping the zoloft.&nbsp; I have had many of these</DIV <DIVsymptoms before taking zoloft off and on for years.&nbsp; </DIV <DIV&nbsp;</DIV <DIVSo my question is what might my problem be?&nbsp; Yes, this is a bit vague question and also given my tiny bio</DIV <DIVseems an absurd question.&nbsp; I am wondering if anyone has had this sort of situation before and if so what</DIV <DIVit was.&nbsp; Or maybe there is someone out there who knows of a physiological basis for this.</DIV <DIV&nbsp;</DIV <DIVThanks a bunch.</DIV</DIV</DIV</DIV</div<br clear=all<hrChat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: <a href=’http://g.msn.com/1HM1ENUS/c144??PS=47575′Click Here</a<br</html — For info about this service, see http://anon.twwells.com/help/ or e-mail:

Response:

snip I do not think these feelings and behaviors were due to stopping the zoloft.  I have had many of these symptoms before taking zoloft off and on for years.

snip Hello, and welcome to ASD ) Do you mean that you’ve had the impulsive, aggresive, feelings only when not taking ‘Zoloft’?  If that is so then perhaps the ‘Zoloft’ is helping you.  If you find that you still get episodes of the feelings you don’t want, even while taking the ‘Zoloft’, then you need to tell your doctor so that other treatments can be considered. — —  Whiskers

Response:

Hello. Brief Summary: My age is 34 and gender is male.   Been a sufferer of anxiety/depression for 20 years.   About 2 years ago started taking zoloft for anxiety attacks that were the largest ever in my adult life. 2 years ago I was also diagnosed with hypo-thyroid.  My hypo is no longer a problem due to synthroid. Started taking zoloft and synthroid at the same time. The zoloft helped the anxiety and also helped with social anxiety. Never felt better in my whole life. About 1 month ago, I stopped zoloft cold turkey.  Had some physical reactions to stopping but those cleared after about 2 weeks.  However I became hyper, gained a big ego, became aggressive, some impulse problems, felt kind of on the edge of losing control with anger and with happiness, more energetic, and the mind kept racing. After seeing my doctor (Psychiatrist) he asked if I wanted to go back on the zoloft to see if the problems went away. I started taking 50 mg and within 3 days I was back to how I was before the Zoloft.  This appearance and disappearance does not seem to fit the pattern for bi-polar. Since zoloft is not for bi-polar and second the opposite if anything would have happened.  eg, hyper on zoloft, not hyper off it. I do not think these feelings and behaviors were due to stopping the zoloft.  I have had many of these symptoms before taking zoloft off and on for years. So my question is what might my problem be?  Yes, this is a bit vague question and also given my tiny bio seems an absurd question.  I am wondering if anyone has had this sort of situation before and if so what it was.  Or maybe there is someone out there who knows of a physiological basis for this. Thanks a bunch.

Response:

Yes, that is correct.  when off zoloft I get impulsive and aggresive.

Have you ever had a head injury? even an untreated one? My goal is to find out what is causing the non-zoloft feelings and behaviors.  I am beginning to think definetely a physiological basis but sometimes I wonder if it is some sort of personality problem.

They are both horrible quagmires. This is the first medicine I have taken my whole life that has made a difference but I would like to see if there is another way to get cured.  Maybe its a sugar problem, hormonal problem, etc and the zoloft just softens the blow of the physiological imbalance.

There can be lots of things like that. Be careful though, it’s hard to assess from within and as lay people, we can easily get the wrong conclusions and ideas about things. — Compute Free: <http://debian.org <http://freedos.org <http://openbsd.org Help People:  <http://rawa.org <http://tibet.org <http://gadenrelief.org Do Something: <http://www.msf.org <http://www.icrc.org/ <http://icbl.org Now: <http://www.foei.org <http://www.greenpeace.org <http://activist.ca

Response:

Thanks.  Sorry about the repost that appears as gibberish.  I had previously used an anonymous posting service but thought it did not work since I got no response for hours.  I also did not know the posting service posted everything in html.

I think twwells does put a bit of a delay in getting messages out, but others in ASD do use it.  I think your news-reader program (Outlook Express?) may be set to use ‘Rich text’ or HTML – if you try twwells again with your software set to use ‘plain text’ things might work better, and I’m sure it’s more convenient than posting via Google. [benefits of treatment] Yes, that is correct.  when off zoloft I get impulsive and aggresive. I will agree the Zoloft is helping but I do not want to take it forever.  It has many side effects as you probably know.  I actually liked the feeling of being ‘high’ when being off the zoloft.  I had forgotten what it was like. I only restarted to take it to see if I went back to my previous socially more likeable state.  I also started back to calm down a bit and make sure I did not do or say anything impulsive that might cause problems at work. My goal is to find out what is causing the non-zoloft feelings and behaviors.  

Talking therapy helps many people work out stuff like that.  Zoloft (sertraline) is an anti-depressant, so if it helps then Depression might well be at least part of the problem.  There are many other anti-depressants if there are side-effects of sertraline that you can’t accept – a doctor would be able to advise. I am beginning to think definetely a physiological basis but sometimes I wonder if it is some sort of personality problem.

Depression /is/ physical – chemical neuro-transmitters get out of balance, and anti-depressants work by doing various things to adjust the balance.  How things get out of balance in the first place, is not yet worked out; there may be several causes.  As far as I know, personality disorders are best diagnosed by a psychiatrist or psychologist; your doctor could probably tell you more about that and possibly arrange a referral. This is the first medicine I have taken my whole life that has made a difference but I would like to see if there is another way to get cured.  Maybe its a sugar problem, hormonal problem, etc and the zoloft just softens the blow of the physiological imbalance. bg

There are standard tests for things like thyroid, liver, or kidney problems, or diabetes, and its certainly worth getting a doctor to arrange such tests for you. — —  Whiskers

Response:

Can you try sending this message again, but in ‘plain text’?  The format isn’t recognised by any of my software.  Sorry (( You too, eh? I wonder what software was used to compose it.

‘twwells’ has stripped the headers, but I’d guess Outlook Express; in stripping the headers twwells has also removed the encoding information and possibly scrambled some of the HTML. — —  Whiskers

Response:

‘twwells’ has stripped the headers, but I’d guess Outlook Express;

I never knew exactly what the problem was with Microsoft and Apple business practices until I started using open source software. — Compute Free: <http://debian.org <http://freedos.org <http://openbsd.org Help People:  <http://rawa.org <http://tibet.org <http://gadenrelief.org Do Something: <http://www.msf.org <http://www.icrc.org/ <http://icbl.org Now: <http://www.foei.org <http://www.greenpeace.org <http://activist.ca

Response:

Question:

Thank you for the ideas. I’ll be working on them tomorrow and will post the newer version. I appreciate all the suggestions. When this is finished I’ll have said what I want to say and be able to walk away knowing he understands. I couldn’t have made these improvements without all of your help. Thank you! Theresa

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jan 2001 Dec 2000 etc tends to learn on "topics" rather than as a general melee of info — k t1 13 yr What about this? Still too long? Diabetes dx 1996 Panic disorder/depression/PTSD dx 1985. (I see Dr. Strgar for this). A history of the treatment for my diabetes is as follows: 1984 dx gestational diabetes controlled with diet and exercise. Every year after that I was checked for diabetes during the yearly lab work. I’m not exactly sure of the year, but in approximately 1996, my medications for depression were not working well and my psychiatrist (Irwin Noparstak at the time) told me to have a check up with my GP and to have lab work done. The lab work came back with the news I was diabetic. 1996-1997 semi-controlled with diet 1997-1998 uncontrolled. 1998-1999 tried Gluophage then switched to gluotrol semi-controlled August 1999 70/30 insulin therapy began About 6 weeks ago Leslie, the diabetic counselor, left the doctors office due to health issues. I had been going through Leslie in regards to my diabetes. She would explain things to me and if I had a concern she would listen and if warranted would talk to the doctor. If I had a concern Leslie would explain things to me so that I knew how to manage. The relationship I had with Leslie was very important to my getting healthy. I consider this the point at which I made a turn-a-round in my therapy with the diabetes. It has been about 6 months that I have been getting the treatment I need. With Leslie’s leaving I tried to deal with the doctor, but was unable to and have made a change to your office. January 2000 switched to Humalog and NPH The way that I take my insulin is I use carb-counting. I base my Humalog on how many carbs I eat at a meal. I use the ratio of 1u to 8 Carbs for breakfast and 1u to 10 for lunch and dinner. If I my numbers are high, I have used the ratio of 1u to 50 mg/dl to lower the high. I have not done this much since I can lower my bgs 15 mg/dl by walking 15 minutes, which is much faster than I can lower it with the insulin. My diet is a "low-income" carb-counting diet. I exercise by walking on a treadmill 15-30 minutes daily. (.5 miles to 1 mile). It is important to me that we work together in my treatment. I have to live with the decisions that we make. If you want me to do something that it isn’ t working then we need to discuss what is happening. I will question decisions. This is not to be taken as a question of your expertise but as a discussion so that I understand how to follow the treatment plan or make adjustments that help me to be healthy. You have the education and training to help me make the right decisions; I will provide you with my logbook and anything else you may need. In the end, I want to be able to function as well as is possible. I need you to assist me in that endeavor. I need to be monitored. I need to have someone who will answer questions; I need to have someone watch over my treatment so that I don’t get into trouble. I’m hoping you will be this kind of doctor.

Response:

Thank you for the ideas. I’ll be working on them tomorrow and will post the newer version. I appreciate all the suggestions. When this is finished I’ll have said what I want to say and be able to walk away knowing he understands. I couldn’t have made these improvements without all of your help. Thank you!

I don’t think the Dr. will read it. I would suggest taking a list of your concerns and questions with you and use them as a reference during the consultation. — pianoguy return email disabled

Response:

I don’t think the Dr. will read it. I would suggest taking a list of your concerns and questions with you and use them as a reference during the consultation.

there is a very high risk that the Dr won’t read……. that’s why i over….. the expectations may be, but who knows……. the medical history will be important and read……. Theresa can quickly read the expectations part to her Dr during their visit to ensure it will be heard your suggestion of a list of concerns/questions to reference is critical to any well-spent Dr’s visit (at least it is for myself ’cause i forget what i wanted to ask, and i forget my symptoms in the Dr’s office) — k t1 13 yr

Response:

It’s a good thing I’ve done this. I called past doctors and got the dates right. I am just going to memorize the expactations and say them. The thank you will be said and I don’t need to memorize it. So this, and the 3 lab reports I have, will be what I take in. Diabetes dx March 1998 Panic disorder/depression/PTSD dx 1985. (I see Dr. Strgar for this). A history of the treatment for my diabetes is as follows: January 2001 switched to Humalog and NPH .            Humalog: ratio of 1u to 8 breakfast/1u to 10 lunch and dinner .            1u to 50 mg/dl when above 140 NPH 10u bedtime August 2000 70/30 insulin therapy began January 2000 tried Gluophage then switched to Gluotrol 1999 semi-controlled with diet March 1998 untreated/uncontrolled 1984 dx gestational diabetes controlled with diet and exercise Medications Daily: Effexor XR 150 mg bedtime Risperdal 1 mg bedtime Alesse 28 bedtime/Estradiol 1mg (when not taking the Alesse) Humalog 1u to 8 carbs Breakfast 1u to 10 carbs Lunch/Dinner NPH 10u bedtime As Needed: Propo-N/APAP 100-650 Xanax Diphenox/Atropine Albuterol, USP Zomig 5 mg (new: have never used this one) — Theresa dx ‘98 t2 humalog & N, diet & exercise Being happy doesn’t mean everything’s perfect, it just means you’ve decided to see beyond the imperfections.

Response:

a Dr usually wants only the salient details……. try a bullet format on a time line (if necessary)……. avoid any details that aren’t applicable in todays terms (or shorten them to….. history of glucophage, glycet, yada meds as just a point) i do hope you repost your next version so that further critique can be done an aside……. put the Thank you letter separate from the "salient details" letter……. two different messages you want to send, so make it easier for the Dr to sort out the messages — k t1 13 yr – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Theresa, too long.  Most people lose interest after a few paragraphs. If you can condense all the important stuff into less paragraphs then you have more chance of the whole letter being read. This is very true. If this was me writing it or reading it I would cut the first paragraph to the first sentence. paragraph 2 is fine, I would scrap para 3. I can cut the first paragraph. The third paragraph is very important to me and so I want to at least say working is very important because if I don’t feel well, than I can’t work. Maybe there is a more consise way to say this. The diabetes stuff is way too long and flowery. At this point I would do a sort of time line. Diagnosed GD 19XX – diet and exercise controlled. Diabetes dx 19XX – Glucotrol fair results. 19XX insulin regimen begun. This is very good! I can do this easily and it will cut tons of fluff! Thanks! The aim is for the doctor to read the lot plus get an overview of your history. Hope I haven’t offended. Not at all, I wanted brutal for a purpose. This is going to be the most important visit. He’ll need to get to know me and I’ll need to get to know him. I don’t want him spending the whole time reading. : ) I want to have him talk so I can judge him as well.  Thank you for the suggestions. Theresa

Response:

Lot better hope the visit works out for you Theresa.

Thanks for the imput, Ozgirl. : ) Much appreciated. Theresa

Response:

Jan 2001 Dec 2000 etc tends to learn on "topics" rather than as a general melee of info — k t1 13 yr – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What about this? Still too long? Diabetes dx 1996 Panic disorder/depression/PTSD dx 1985. (I see Dr. Strgar for this). A history of the treatment for my diabetes is as follows: 1984 dx gestational diabetes controlled with diet and exercise. Every year after that I was checked for diabetes during the yearly lab work. I’m not exactly sure of the year, but in approximately 1996, my medications for depression were not working well and my psychiatrist (Irwin Noparstak at the time) told me to have a check up with my GP and to have lab work done. The lab work came back with the news I was diabetic. 1996-1997 semi-controlled with diet 1997-1998 uncontrolled. 1998-1999 tried Gluophage then switched to gluotrol semi-controlled August 1999 70/30 insulin therapy began About 6 weeks ago Leslie, the diabetic counselor, left the doctors office due to health issues. I had been going through Leslie in regards to my diabetes. She would explain things to me and if I had a concern she would listen and if warranted would talk to the doctor. If I had a concern Leslie would explain things to me so that I knew how to manage. The relationship I had with Leslie was very important to my getting healthy. I consider this the point at which I made a turn-a-round in my therapy with the diabetes. It has been about 6 months that I have been getting the treatment I need. With Leslie’s leaving I tried to deal with the doctor, but was unable to and have made a change to your office. January 2000 switched to Humalog and NPH The way that I take my insulin is I use carb-counting. I base my Humalog on how many carbs I eat at a meal. I use the ratio of 1u to 8 Carbs for breakfast and 1u to 10 for lunch and dinner. If I my numbers are high, I have used the ratio of 1u to 50 mg/dl to lower the high. I have not done this much since I can lower my bgs 15 mg/dl by walking 15 minutes, which is much faster than I can lower it with the insulin. My diet is a "low-income" carb-counting diet. I exercise by walking on a treadmill 15-30 minutes daily. (.5 miles to 1 mile). It is important to me that we work together in my treatment. I have to live with the decisions that we make. If you want me to do something that it isn’ t working then we need to discuss what is happening. I will question decisions. This is not to be taken as a question of your expertise but as a discussion so that I understand how to follow the treatment plan or make adjustments that help me to be healthy. You have the education and training to help me make the right decisions; I will provide you with my logbook and anything else you may need. In the end, I want to be able to function as well as is possible. I need you to assist me in that endeavor. I need to be monitored. I need to have someone who will answer questions; I need to have someone watch over my treatment so that I don’t get into trouble. I’m hoping you will be this kind of doctor.

Response:

Theresa, Heres some more feedback that I hope to be useful. My wife has multiple medical issues that has required that we seek out various new doctors. We had a list of her medical history and prescriptions and began handing these to the doctors, and found they simply didn’t use it. In fact one doctor told us they were taught in medical school to ignore this type of thing. Their are two reasons they do this, one is to ask the patient the questions you need answers to in order to better analyze the patients current condition. The other reason is they suspect the patient to be a hypochondriac. The thing that works for us is to bring the list as a reminder, give the doctor the information as they ask for it, and fill them in on the rest when they are done asking questions. Just some ideas….. — John M.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Theresa, too long.  Most people lose interest after a few paragraphs. If you can condense all the important stuff into less paragraphs then you have more chance of the whole letter being read. This is very true. If this was me writing it or reading it I would cut the first paragraph to the first sentence. paragraph 2 is fine, I would scrap para 3. I can cut the first paragraph. The third paragraph is very important to me and so I want to at least say working is very important because if I don’t feel well, than I can’t work. Maybe there is a more consise way to say this. The diabetes stuff is way too long and flowery. At this point I would do a sort of time line. Diagnosed GD 19XX – diet and exercise controlled. Diabetes dx 19XX – Glucotrol fair results. 19XX insulin regimen begun. This is very good! I can do this easily and it will cut tons of fluff! Thanks! The aim is for the doctor to read the lot plus get an overview of your history. Hope I haven’t offended. Not at all, I wanted brutal for a purpose. This is going to be the most important visit. He’ll need to get to know me and I’ll need to get to know him. I don’t want him spending the whole time reading. : ) I want to have him talk so I can judge him as well.  Thank you for the suggestions. Theresa

Response:

Lot better hope the visit works out for you Theresa.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What about this? Still too long? Diabetes dx 1996 Panic disorder/depression/PTSD dx 1985. (I see Dr. Strgar for this). A history of the treatment for my diabetes is as follows: 1984 dx gestational diabetes controlled with diet and exercise. Every year after that I was checked for diabetes during the yearly lab work. I’m not exactly sure of the year, but in approximately 1996, my medications for depression were not working well and my psychiatrist (Irwin Noparstak at the time) told me to have a check up with my GP and to have lab work done. The lab work came back with the news I was diabetic. 1996-1997 semi-controlled with diet 1997-1998 uncontrolled. 1998-1999 tried Gluophage then switched to gluotrol semi-controlled August 1999 70/30 insulin therapy began About 6 weeks ago Leslie, the diabetic counselor, left the doctors office due to health issues. I had been going through Leslie in regards to my diabetes. She would explain things to me and if I had a concern she would listen and if warranted would talk to the doctor. If I had a concern Leslie would explain things to me so that I knew how to manage. The relationship I had with Leslie was very important to my getting healthy. I consider this the point at which I made a turn-a-round in my therapy with the diabetes. It has been about 6 months that I have been getting the treatment I need. With Leslie’s leaving I tried to deal with the doctor, but was unable to and have made a change to your office. January 2000 switched to Humalog and NPH The way that I take my insulin is I use carb-counting. I base my Humalog on how many carbs I eat at a meal. I use the ratio of 1u to 8 Carbs for breakfast and 1u to 10 for lunch and dinner. If I my numbers are high, I have used the ratio of 1u to 50 mg/dl to lower the high. I have not done this much since I can lower my bgs 15 mg/dl by walking 15 minutes, which is much faster than I can lower it with the insulin. My diet is a "low-income" carb-counting diet. I exercise by walking on a treadmill 15-30 minutes daily. (.5 miles to 1 mile). It is important to me that we work together in my treatment. I have to live with the decisions that we make. If you want me to do something that it isn’ t working then we need to discuss what is happening. I will question decisions. This is not to be taken as a question of your expertise but as a discussion so that I understand how to follow the treatment plan or make adjustments that help me to be healthy. You have the education and training to help me make the right decisions; I will provide you with my logbook and anything else you may need. In the end, I want to be able to function as well as is possible. I need you to assist me in that endeavor. I need to be monitored. I need to have someone who will answer questions; I need to have someone watch over my treatment so that I don’t get into trouble. I’m hoping you will be this kind of doctor.

Response:

Theresa, too long.  Most people lose interest after a few paragraphs. If you can condense all the important stuff into less paragraphs then you have more chance of the whole letter being read.

This is very true. If this was me writing it or reading it I would cut the first paragraph to the first sentence. paragraph 2 is fine, I would scrap para 3.

I can cut the first paragraph. The third paragraph is very important to me and so I want to at least say working is very important because if I don’t feel well, than I can’t work. Maybe there is a more consise way to say this. The diabetes stuff is way too long and flowery. At this point I would do a sort of time line. Diagnosed GD 19XX – diet and exercise controlled. Diabetes dx 19XX – Glucotrol fair results. 19XX insulin regimen begun.

This is very good! I can do this easily and it will cut tons of fluff! Thanks! The aim is for the doctor to read the lot plus get an overview of your history. Hope I haven’t offended.

Not at all, I wanted brutal for a purpose. This is going to be the most important visit. He’ll need to get to know me and I’ll need to get to know him. I don’t want him spending the whole time reading. : ) I want to have him talk so I can judge him as well.  Thank you for the suggestions. Theresa

Response:

What about this? Still too long? Diabetes dx 1996 Panic disorder/depression/PTSD dx 1985. (I see Dr. Strgar for this). A history of the treatment for my diabetes is as follows: 1984 dx gestational diabetes controlled with diet and exercise. Every year after that I was checked for diabetes during the yearly lab work. I’m not exactly sure of the year, but in approximately 1996, my medications for depression were not working well and my psychiatrist (Irwin Noparstak at the time) told me to have a check up with my GP and to have lab work done. The lab work came back with the news I was diabetic. 1996-1997 semi-controlled with diet 1997-1998 uncontrolled. 1998-1999 tried Gluophage then switched to gluotrol semi-controlled August 1999 70/30 insulin therapy began About 6 weeks ago Leslie, the diabetic counselor, left the doctors office due to health issues. I had been going through Leslie in regards to my diabetes. She would explain things to me and if I had a concern she would listen and if warranted would talk to the doctor. If I had a concern Leslie would explain things to me so that I knew how to manage. The relationship I had with Leslie was very important to my getting healthy. I consider this the point at which I made a turn-a-round in my therapy with the diabetes. It has been about 6 months that I have been getting the treatment I need. With Leslie’s leaving I tried to deal with the doctor, but was unable to and have made a change to your office. January 2000 switched to Humalog and NPH The way that I take my insulin is I use carb-counting. I base my Humalog on how many carbs I eat at a meal. I use the ratio of 1u to 8 Carbs for breakfast and 1u to 10 for lunch and dinner. If I my numbers are high, I have used the ratio of 1u to 50 mg/dl to lower the high. I have not done this much since I can lower my bgs 15 mg/dl by walking 15 minutes, which is much faster than I can lower it with the insulin. My diet is a "low-income" carb-counting diet. I exercise by walking on a treadmill 15-30 minutes daily. (.5 miles to 1 mile). It is important to me that we work together in my treatment. I have to live with the decisions that we make. If you want me to do something that it isn’ t working then we need to discuss what is happening. I will question decisions. This is not to be taken as a question of your expertise but as a discussion so that I understand how to follow the treatment plan or make adjustments that help me to be healthy. You have the education and training to help me make the right decisions; I will provide you with my logbook and anything else you may need. In the end, I want to be able to function as well as is possible. I need you to assist me in that endeavor. I need to be monitored. I need to have someone who will answer questions; I need to have someone watch over my treatment so that I don’t get into trouble. I’m hoping you will be this kind of doctor.

Response:

Theresa, too long.  Most people lose interest after a few paragraphs. If you can condense all the important stuff into less paragraphs then you have more chance of the whole letter being read. If this was me writing it or reading it I would cut the first paragraph to the first sentence. paragraph 2 is fine, I would scrap para 3. The diabetes stuff is way too long and flowery. At this point I would do a sort of time line. Diagnosed GD 19XX – diet and exercise controlled. Diabetes dx 19XX – Glucotrol fair results. 19XX insulin regimen begun. The aim is for the doctor to read the lot plus get an overview of your history. Hope I haven’t offended.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Because this appointment will be our first I need advice in getting my letter fine-tuned. Any help would be appreciated. Help me get rid of the fluff and be as concise as possible as well as state my needs with clarity. tia Dr. **** Thank you for accepting me as a patient. I sought referrals and followed up on them trying to find an Internist, but was unable to locate any that would accept my insurance. This was very frustrating. When I finally got to your number I was overjoyed to find someone who cares about people more than their insurance. So this is a heartfelt thank you! Though I don’t know you I do want to introduce myself. The appointment will go fast so I am going to put things in writing so you’ll get a good picture of who I am and the sort of care I’ll need. I have diabetes, which is the primary care I’ll need from you. I also have panic disorder/depression/PTSD. I see Dr. Strgar for the latter. All of these conditions are under control with the use of medications, exercise, education, and determination. I own a small desktop publishing business. I work few hours but would like to work more. I struggle with my business. I sometimes have difficulty concentrating and tire quickly. Working is very important to me and as such has "pushed" me to get my medical conditions under control. I want to work. I’d like it if I could work full-time. For now I do what I can and strive to improve my condition. I have a teenaged daughter who is a delight. She is very helpful and a good student. I love being her mother and we get along very well. She also suffers from depression; it is also under control with medications. A history of the treatment for my diabetes is as follows: In 1984 I had gestational diabetes. I controlled it with diet and exercise. My daughter was born and weighed 7′10. She was healthy and bright. Every year after that I was checked for diabetes during the yearly lab work. I’m not exactly sure of the year, but in approximately 1996, my medications for depression were not working well and my psychiatrist (Irwin Noparstak at the time) told me to have a check up with my GP and to have lab work done. The lab work came back with the news I was diabetic. Although I had had gestational diabetes and knew the diet/exercise regimen I was unable to get my bgs under control. With the help of Leslie Rohr-diabetic counselor-I was able to regain my control. This lasted for about a year. (diet and exercise only). My doctor had me fax her my logbook readings once a week, because my bgs were out of control. It didn’t seem to matter what I did. I was frustrated. I faxed the logbook but with nothing changing it seemed pointless. I finally gave up on testing. My numbers were not good. This went on for approximately another year. I felt terrible. I didn’t think about going back to Leslie. I don’t know why. Finally, after complaining and being in the office sick all the time the doctor started me on gluophage. I took this medication for 3 weeks, at a very low dose. It made me very ill, did not improve my numbers, nor did it seem as if the queasy feeling were going to dissipate with time. I finally called the nurse and asked to be switched to something else. The doctor prescribed gluotrol. I took glucotrol for approximately 9 months with fair results (readings under 160, but still feeling crummy). At one point I got the flu and the medication stopped working altogether, so the doctor increased it. This caused me to have what I experienced as panic attacks. I was having them 2-3 times a week. (Whereas before the increase in dosage I was having 2-3 panics a month). I say "experienced" these as panics because my symptoms were: shaking, sweating, inability to concentrate, feeling like I was going to die, feeling faint, etc. After much heated discussion, none of which contained hypos as the cause, my doctor suggested insulin. In August I started Insulin. With the change to insulin I saw Leslie Rohr again. Leslie got me started on the 70/30 insulin from Lilly. During a time when I was feeling panicy it was also time to test my bgs. Low and behold, I was near 50. This is when I realized the panics and hypos were similar. Since then before I assume I am having a panic I check my bgs. Because of the hypos I had while taking the 70/30 I checked my bgs before I would drive. I was having hypos partly because I was skipping snacks. I was eating 6 small meals a day, and at the end of the month I was having difficulty keeping enough snacks in the house. Sometimes my budget did not stretch far enough. About 6 weeks ago Leslie left the doctors office due to health issues of her own. I had been going through Leslie in regards to my diabetes. She would explain things to me and if I had a concern she would listen and if warranted would talk to the doctor. This reduced the stress I felt when working with the doctor. I found that the doctor did not listen to me, but she would listen to Leslie. If I had a concern Leslie would explain things to me so that I knew how to manage. The relationship I had with Leslie was very important to my getting healthy. I consider this the point at which I made a turn-a-round in my therapy with the diabetes. It has been about 6 months that I have been getting the treatment I need. With Leslie’s leaving I tried to deal with the doctor, but was unable to and have made a change to your office. I read up on using insulin that was not pre-mixed and talked to my doctor several times about changing to the regular insulin. She wanted to wait until the Lantus came out on the market and then change me to the regular insulin. She wanted me to "play" with the "R" I used for highs. This was difficult with the pre-mix. I finally convinced her to let me use Humalog and Humilin N. I have been taking this for a month. In that time I have not had a single hypo. My numbers have been excellent and I feel great. This change has me very excited. The way that I take my insulin now is I use carb-counting. I base my Humalog on how many carbs I eat at a meal. I use the ratio of 1u to 8 Carbs for breakfast and 1u to 10 for lunch and dinner. If I my numbers are high, I have used the ratio of 1 U to 50 mg/dl to lower the high. I have not done this much since I can lower my bgs 15 mg/dl by walking 15 minutes, which is much faster than I can lower it with the insulin. My diet is a "low-income" carb-counting diet. I would like to stay with the exchange diet, however I can’t always afford to eat as nutritiously as it recommends. I would also like to eat more of the lower glycemic foods, but the cost is prohibitive. I control portion size and hope for the best. I exercise by walking on a treadmill 15-30 minutes daily. (.5 miles to 1 mile). I know this is not much, but I am working on increasing it. It is important to me that we work together in my treatment. I have to live with the decisions that we make. If you want me to do something that it isn’ t working then we need to discuss what is happening. I will question decisions. This is not to be taken as a question of your expertise but as a discussion so that I understand how to follow the treatment plan or make adjustments that help me to be healthy. You have the education and training to make the right decisions; I will provide you with my logbook and anything else you may need. In the end, I want to be able to function as well as is possible. I need you to assist me in that endeavor. I need to be monitored. I need to have someone who will answer questions; I need to have someone watch over my treatment so that I don’t get into trouble. I’m hoping you will be this kind of doctor. Again, thank you for accepting me as your patient.

Response:

Because this appointment will be our first I need advice in getting my letter fine-tuned. Any help would be appreciated. Help me get rid of the fluff and be as concise as possible as well as state my needs with clarity. tia Dr. **** Thank you for accepting me as a patient. I sought referrals and followed up on them trying to find an Internist, but was unable to locate any that would accept my insurance. This was very frustrating. When I finally got to your number I was overjoyed to find someone who cares about people more than their insurance. So this is a heartfelt thank you! Though I don’t know you I do want to introduce myself. The appointment will go fast so I am going to put things in writing so you’ll get a good picture of who I am and the sort of care I’ll need. I have diabetes, which is the primary care I’ll need from you. I also have panic disorder/depression/PTSD. I see Dr. Strgar for the latter. All of these conditions are under control with the use of medications, exercise, education, and determination. I own a small desktop publishing business. I work few hours but would like to work more. I struggle with my business. I sometimes have difficulty concentrating and tire quickly. Working is very important to me and as such has "pushed" me to get my medical conditions under control. I want to work. I’d like it if I could work full-time. For now I do what I can and strive to improve my condition. I have a teenaged daughter who is a delight. She is very helpful and a good student. I love being her mother and we get along very well. She also suffers from depression; it is also under control with medications. A history of the treatment for my diabetes is as follows: In 1984 I had gestational diabetes. I controlled it with diet and exercise. My daughter was born and weighed 7′10. She was healthy and bright. Every year after that I was checked for diabetes during the yearly lab work. I’m not exactly sure of the year, but in approximately 1996, my medications for depression were not working well and my psychiatrist (Irwin Noparstak at the time) told me to have a check up with my GP and to have lab work done. The lab work came back with the news I was diabetic. Although I had had gestational diabetes and knew the diet/exercise regimen I was unable to get my bgs under control. With the help of Leslie Rohr-diabetic counselor-I was able to regain my control. This lasted for about a year. (diet and exercise only). My doctor had me fax her my logbook readings once a week, because my bgs were out of control. It didn’t seem to matter what I did. I was frustrated. I faxed the logbook but with nothing changing it seemed pointless. I finally gave up on testing. My numbers were not good. This went on for approximately another year. I felt terrible. I didn’t think about going back to Leslie. I don’t know why. Finally, after complaining and being in the office sick all the time the doctor started me on gluophage. I took this medication for 3 weeks, at a very low dose. It made me very ill, did not improve my numbers, nor did it seem as if the queasy feeling were going to dissipate with time. I finally called the nurse and asked to be switched to something else. The doctor prescribed gluotrol. I took glucotrol for approximately 9 months with fair results (readings under 160, but still feeling crummy). At one point I got the flu and the medication stopped working altogether, so the doctor increased it. This caused me to have what I experienced as panic attacks. I was having them 2-3 times a week. (Whereas before the increase in dosage I was having 2-3 panics a month). I say "experienced" these as panics because my symptoms were: shaking, sweating, inability to concentrate, feeling like I was going to die, feeling faint, etc. After much heated discussion, none of which contained hypos as the cause, my doctor suggested insulin. In August I started Insulin. With the change to insulin I saw Leslie Rohr again. Leslie got me started on the 70/30 insulin from Lilly. During a time when I was feeling panicy it was also time to test my bgs. Low and behold, I was near 50. This is when I realized the panics and hypos were similar. Since then before I assume I am having a panic I check my bgs. Because of the hypos I had while taking the 70/30 I checked my bgs before I would drive. I was having hypos partly because I was skipping snacks. I was eating 6 small meals a day, and at the end of the month I was having difficulty keeping enough snacks in the house. Sometimes my budget did not stretch far enough. About 6 weeks ago Leslie left the doctors office due to health issues of her own. I had been going through Leslie in regards to my diabetes. She would explain things to me and if I had a concern she would listen and if warranted would talk to the doctor. This reduced the stress I felt when working with the doctor. I found that the doctor did not listen to me, but she would listen to Leslie. If I had a concern Leslie would explain things to me so that I knew how to manage. The relationship I had with Leslie was very important to my getting healthy. I consider this the point at which I made a turn-a-round in my therapy with the diabetes. It has been about 6 months that I have been getting the treatment I need. With Leslie’s leaving I tried to deal with the doctor, but was unable to and have made a change to your office. I read up on using insulin that was not pre-mixed and talked to my doctor several times about changing to the regular insulin. She wanted to wait until the Lantus came out on the market and then change me to the regular insulin. She wanted me to "play" with the "R" I used for highs. This was difficult with the pre-mix. I finally convinced her to let me use Humalog and Humilin N. I have been taking this for a month. In that time I have not had a single hypo. My numbers have been excellent and I feel great. This change has me very excited. The way that I take my insulin now is I use carb-counting. I base my Humalog on how many carbs I eat at a meal. I use the ratio of 1u to 8 Carbs for breakfast and 1u to 10 for lunch and dinner. If I my numbers are high, I have used the ratio of 1 U to 50 mg/dl to lower the high. I have not done this much since I can lower my bgs 15 mg/dl by walking 15 minutes, which is much faster than I can lower it with the insulin. My diet is a "low-income" carb-counting diet. I would like to stay with the exchange diet, however I can’t always afford to eat as nutritiously as it recommends. I would also like to eat more of the lower glycemic foods, but the cost is prohibitive. I control portion size and hope for the best. I exercise by walking on a treadmill 15-30 minutes daily. (.5 miles to 1 mile). I know this is not much, but I am working on increasing it. It is important to me that we work together in my treatment. I have to live with the decisions that we make. If you want me to do something that it isn’ t working then we need to discuss what is happening. I will question decisions. This is not to be taken as a question of your expertise but as a discussion so that I understand how to follow the treatment plan or make adjustments that help me to be healthy. You have the education and training to make the right decisions; I will provide you with my logbook and anything else you may need. In the end, I want to be able to function as well as is possible. I need you to assist me in that endeavor. I need to be monitored. I need to have someone who will answer questions; I need to have someone watch over my treatment so that I don’t get into trouble. I’m hoping you will be this kind of doctor. Again, thank you for accepting me as your patient.

Response:

Question:

Hi Betsy, Excellent thread! For those of you who are on antidepressants, what different sorts of experiences have you had that show they’re working? We’re all taught to recognize such symptoms of depression as deep sadness, lack of energy, apathy, etc.

What shows they are working.  I think it’s good to approach this from both the lack of negative symptoms *and* the return of positives: – Less deep sadness, replaced by feelings of calm or "normalcy".  The "normalcy" is noticed by realizations that "hey!  this is how I used to feel when I wasn’t depressed!". – Lack of energy, replaced by just the ability to get out of bed and in the shower in order to make it to work on time.  Feeling rested after a normal nights sleep, instead of wanting to sleep all day. – Apathy replaced by hope that things can get better, and caring about that, which also can ironically cause some fear in me.  In the 3 weeks I’ve been taking meds for dysthymia (low grade chronic depression), these things, to the less profound degree I’ve felt them, have cleared up.  

Good!  I’m glad for you! But a more noticeable difference for me is a greater ability/willingness to be open and honest with my feelings *before* a fuse gets lit — I don’t keep from speaking up and let things fester so much.  Then a problem can be resolved when it’s still small, and my feelings stay more neutral during and after the resolution.  It’s weird.  : )

I’ve noticed that I tend to be able to resolve things in a more tactful appropriate manner sooner when I’m doing well on antidepressants.  One concern that I have is that one of the meds I take is Klonopin, and it gives me what I would consider an artificial self confidence and changes my personality in ways that I’m more laid back and I’ve noticed that people respond very positively to that.  My sense of humor increases too, or at least my ability to convey it. The concern is that Klonopin is addictive, and I must moderate its use.  I never take more than the prescribed dosage, but sometimes recently I have been taking up to 2mg (like today), so I want to go a week or so without it, or maybe taking only .5mg. Two of the lesser-talked-about symptoms of depression are persistent feelings of low self-worth and guilt.  I’m not saying that antidepressants are the cure-all for these feelings, but I wonder if the meds are helping to relieve some of these feelings in me so that speaking up is a more tolerable option now?

I think this goes back to speaking up — that can help relieve guilt. If you’re feeling less depressed and good about yourself in general, it’s easier to brush off someone else’s inappropriate guilt feelings. This past weekend I told my Mom I was going to try to contact the Make a Wish Foundation to see if she could get tickets to see Tiger Woods in Rockford.  My Mom’s been through a lot, she loves Tiger Woods, and it would make her sooooooo happy.  It would make me equally or more happy to be able to make her happy.  Well, when I asked my Mom if I have her permission to do that, my sister said, in an irritated condescending tone of voice that Make a Wish is only for terminally ill children. Well, my first feeling was hurt.  I had taken a risk and gone out of my way to try to do something positive, and immediately it was shot down by my sister (but my Mom liked the idea — anything to see Tiger Woods  My sister started to say more, and I realized I didn’t want to get into a debate with her.  So, I said I didn’t want to talk about it.  She called me rude for not wanting to talk about it, that when someone wants to talk I "should" talk.  I said no, I’m setting a boundary and I choose not to talk about it. Mainly, because I saw it as a lose-lose conversation or a win-lose conversation.  In converstations like that, I don’t want to be the winner or loser.  I want it to be win-win, or an intelligent discussion of the ways to find out what the Make a Wish covers, and also an acknowledgement of the intent. If I were in depression, I may not have been as internally comfortable about how I handled it.  I was at peace after I set the boundary, event though my sister was frustrated and tried to get me to participate more in the conversation. She also has a young daughter.  During the weekend she said "Kevin!!! Shannon has hair spray in her hand, you "should" have closed the bathroom door".  I said "Sure, no problem, I will be happy to do that in the future.  I just need to be informed of these things and you hadn’t let me know to do that".  She said yes, I know I did because I told Randy (my brother).  (as if someone else is evidence that she told me).  I left it as a final "I don’t believe you told me otherwise I would have gladly complied, but I’ll be sure to do it in the future". It’s almost like the meds have taken the power out of the "excuses" depression makes me vulnerable to (I’m too tired; it’ll never work; I’m not good enough) and the healthier thoughts I’ve been planting all along in therapy, etc. have a chance to actually be heard — by me.

YES.  *This* is what meds (IMO) are good for.  The depression support group I go to says this too, and this is my experience.  For me, the meds put me in a state where I’m more willing to remember and apply the healthy thoughts from therapy and other sources, and it also makes therapy more effective — instead of always dealing with depression in therapy and "dysthymia-struggles" (to coin a term), it can get to dealing more in the soluiton. Of course, it could all be placebo effect, too.  At this point I really don’t care.  : )  Just wondered what you guys have experienced?

I don’t think it’s the placebo effect.  After years of taking meds, not taking them when I was supposed to, forgetting to take them, not taking them as prescribed, taking them while drinking, I eventually had a lot of empirical data that leads me to believe, for me anyway, that the meds do help a lot.  I have been taking them as prescribed, except for Klonopin which I choose to take as needed because I know how addictive it can be. Betsy

Another point about meds.  Sometimes it takes a loooong time to find a good match, or the right meds (not to mention a good psychiatrist). Right now, crossing fingers, the combination of 150mg of Effexor XR, with 50mg Zoloft recently re-added (because I was proactive and contacted the psychiatrist), occasional use of Klonopin as needed, and 50-100mg of Trazodone for sleeping (I almost always take 50mg) works very well.  Today, I can honestly say I feel "normal" (just for today).  Maybe a little depressed and sad, but at least functional. About the placebo effect.  I wonder whether the full spectrum lights and the SAD lights have a placebo effect for me.  I don’t care.  All I know is that after a long day at work under my full spectrum light, when I go out into the dark winter here, I almost feel like I had a day of sunshine and the dark night seems more natural.  So, the lighting helps also. Kevin P.S. — thanks for your recent e-mail Betsy, I’ll try to get back to you (and a few others who’ve e-mailed in the last few weeks, some of whom I haven’t heard from in a while)

Response:

For those of you who are on antidepressants, what different sorts of experiences have you had that show they’re working? We’re all taught to recognize such symptoms of depression as deep sadness, lack of energy, apathy, etc.  In the 3 weeks I’ve been taking meds for dysthymia (low grade chronic depression), these things, to the less profound degree I’ve felt them, have cleared up.  But a more noticeable difference for me is a greater ability/willingness to be open and honest with my feelings *before* a fuse gets lit — I don’t keep from speaking up and let things fester so much.  Then a problem can be resolved when it’s still small, and my feelings stay more neutral during and after the resolution.  It’s weird.  : ) Two of the lesser-talked-about symptoms of depression are persistent feelings of low self-worth and guilt.  I’m not saying that antidepressants are the cure-all for these feelings, but I wonder if the meds are helping to relieve some of these feelings in me so that speaking up is a more tolerable option now? It’s almost like the meds have taken the power out of the "excuses" depression makes me vulnerable to (I’m too tired; it’ll never work; I’m not good enough) and the healthier thoughts I’ve been planting all along in therapy, etc. have a chance to actually be heard — by me. Of course, it could all be placebo effect, too.  At this point I really don’t care.  : )  Just wondered what you guys have experienced? Betsy

Response:

– Lack of energy, replaced by just the ability to get out of bed and in the shower in order to make it to work on time.  Feeling rested after a normal nights sleep, instead of wanting to sleep all day.

I’ve stopped taking 3-4 hour naps on the weekends.  : )  There’s all sorts of stuff to do when you look for it. I’ve noticed that I tend to be able to resolve things in a more tactful appropriate manner sooner when I’m doing well on antidepressants.  One concern that I have is that one of the meds I take is Klonopin, and it gives me what I would consider an artificial self confidence and changes my personality in ways that I’m more laid back and I’ve noticed that people respond very positively to that.

Is it an antianxiety med?  It’s interesting that you say it feels like an artificial self-confidence.  Does that mean that anxiety feels natural for you??  I don’t quite know how to respond, except that you seem to be staying self-aware about your use of it and that’s a good thing. I think this goes back to speaking up — that can help relieve guilt. If you’re feeling less depressed and good about yourself in general, it’s easier to brush off someone else’s inappropriate guilt feelings.

Exactly.  And the low self-esteem, that also leads to not speaking up or even counting my needs and feelings as important enough to bother dealing with. It’s a sort of self-sustaining loop in depression, apathy/low self-worth/lethargy. Regarding the incident with your sister, she sounds more than a little stressed-out herself.  : )  But you handled her very well! It’s almost like the meds have taken the power out of the "excuses" depression makes me vulnerable to (I’m too tired; it’ll never work; I’m not good enough) and the healthier thoughts I’ve been planting all along in therapy, etc. have a chance to actually be heard — by me. YES.  *This* is what meds (IMO) are good for.  The depression support group I go to says this too, and this is my experience.

You don’t know how encouraging it is to hear this, Kevin. One of the worst things about chronic depression is that little by little, year by year, you’re just resigning yourself to the fact that this is what life feels like.  You don’t even think it CAN be different.  It’s such a relief to know there’s something that can actually help.  And yet, I don’t feel as if the meds are "doing" it to me, I feel like I’m the one making the choices and changing my behavior.  I don’t think it’s the placebo effect.  After years of taking meds, not taking them when I was supposed to, forgetting to take them, not taking them as prescribed, taking them while drinking, I eventually had a lot of empirical data that leads me to believe, for me anyway, that the meds do help a lot.  I have been taking them as prescribed, except for Klonopin which I choose to take as needed because I know how addictive it can be.

Thank you so much for sharing your experience, it really is valuable to me. You’ve been around the block with this and I know you speak from experience. Happy New Year! Betsy

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Shanon, How is it different that I am using a drug to alter the way I feel in somewhat the same way that they are using drugs to alter the way that they feel. -)  You are being monitored by a professional throughout the complete period of taking your "drugs" — your friends are not. -)  You are being prescribed the correct dosage of your "drug" — your friends not. -)  Your friends may become addicted to their drugs — you are *very* unlikely to become addicted to yours.

I agree with you completely.  I’m not a chemist, so when I was using pot all those years I really had no idea exactly what dosage I needed to obtain the feeling I wanted.  And I didn’t want to alleviate a painful condition, I wanted to obtain a high. The partnership with one and maybe two professionals, if you have a therapist, makes treatment with meds for depression a vastly different experience than chasing a high with street drugs. Betsy

Response:

Shanon, How is it different that I am using a drug to alter the way I feel in somewhat the same way that they are using drugs to alter the way that they feel.

-)  You are being monitored by a professional throughout the complete period of taking your "drugs" — your friends are not. -)  You are being prescribed the correct dosage of your "drug" — your friends not. -)  Your friends may become addicted to their drugs — you are *very* unlikely to become addicted to yours. Yes, medicine can also be a "drug" and basically humans can become addicted to almost anything, I think. Drugs have been widely used since the beginning of mankind. Weren’t it the Maya who used leaves of the coke plant to enhance their bodily capabilities?? The main difference between the drug known as medicine and what people think of as "real" drugs is that there is a safety/precaution variable included — your doc. If you’re self-medicating yourself its drug abuse and may lead to dependency. At least I think of it that way. Hope that helped. Pete ;O) — ~ But if you’re in the eye of storm. Think of the lonely dove. The experience of survival is the key. To the gravitiy of love. ~ -Enigma

Response:

Since I have started Paxil, I have noticed so many positive effects.. First of all, my anxiety level has plummetted  - thank God!!  Secondly, my need to complete everything in order has subsided a little bit, I no longer panic if I don’t follow a schedule  or stick to an exact plan.  My depression has gotten so much better as well, I still feel bad sometimes, but nothing how I used to feel. But, then I wonder if this is a good thing.  I mean, I have friends who do drugs like pot and ecstacy – they say that the drugs make them happy – ecstacy makes them feel empathetic and like they have a connection with people.  Pot makes them calm, helps them concentrate, takes the edge off of their angry dispositions.  So I’m wondering, how am I different from them in my own use of Paxil?  How is it different that I am using a drug to alter the way I feel in somewhat the same way that they are using drugs to alter the way that they feel.  The only difference is that my drugs are legal.   I guess I’m rambling.. Shanon

Response:

For those of you who are on antidepressants, what different sorts of experiences have you had that show they’re working?

I am able to sleep.  I am able to not obsess about things, to let things go, to go to work.  I am able to eat better without so much worry that I will wake up the next morning weighting a ton.  When I have gone off my antidepressants the first thing I notice returning is my anxiety, which results in insomnia and obsessive compulsive behaviors.  I have gone off and back on many times against medical advise, and I know that they help me tremendously.  When I am off, I crash so bad.  Love Kal

Response:

i am not as reactive emotionally. but in a good way.  i can still cry and i do feel anger, but its not rage anymore.

What a relief this must be.  I have had flashes of rage throughout the years, for me I think they’re related to unrelenting depression.   it has slowed my mind down.  my mind used to race so fast , i talked fast, etc.  now i am more even keeled.  it has helped me to sleep better and longer.  which is wonderful considering my history of insomnia.  and i am more positive thinking now, i dont get so down on myself and i dont feel hopeless. i look for solutions to problems now and it helps to keep my chin up

but you’re an important part of ase-d for me. You are not your struggles, you are the person inside and I just wanted to let you know I see you.  : ) Happy New Year! Betsy

Response:

Question:

Has anyone found that they shake a little after taking there ventolin  inhaler? Janel

Response:

Thanks for your replys. Acctually, I have had asthma since I was two, and now I am 14, but I still get the shakes after using it for 9 years. It just recently though that my heart has started to race once in a while. I find it just annoying, but it scares me too. Anyways, keep on smiling! Janel

Response:

Has anyone found that they shake a little after taking there ventolin   inhaler? Janel

yup, there’s been a discussion going on recently about it….I get the shakes with Proventil, which is also albuterol like Ventolin

Response:

Has anyone found that they shake a little after taking there ventolin inhaler? Janel

Yes, when I first started taking it 8-9 Years ago.  Your system becomes accustomed to it.  Though I do find that if I need to take albuterol nebs that still makes me very shaky.  I wouldn’t be too concerned unless your heart really starts to race.  Then I’d ask the dr. Helen

Response:

I always experience an accelerated hearbeat and feel a little shaky after using my inhaler.  This is normal and you will get used to this side affect.

Response:

Hi Jane, You do indeed shake a bit after taking Ventoline or Bricanyl or anyone of the medecines that contains the same particles. You can also become tired and lightheaded, this is all part of the deal! Brit – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Has anyone found that they shake a little after taking there ventolin  inhaler? Janel

Response:

Yes–all the time!  And, I have a racing heart

Response:

I have the same thing with the shaking…I went to a neurologist and she said it was called a "benign hand tremor" or "essential tremor" anyway, it does have something to do with diabetes. I had another doctor say it was a type of nerve damage in my hands…there are medicines for it! Good luck!

Response:

Hi, I was wondering if shaking really bad has anything to do with diabetes? I have been shaking really bad for the last three days. It has been hard to type without redoing it because my hands are always shaking. It is like a person who is really nervous would shake all over. I check my BG but it is usually really good around 120 sometimes just a little higher. Does anyone else do this? Thanks for any input. Diana — People Ask Me Why I Love God? Because He First Loved Me

Response:

Diana,    Any new symptom that interferes with your life should be discussed with your doctor.  It could be something simple, like fatigue, stress, too much coffee.   It could be your glucose levels dropped very quickly.   It could also be drug-induced.  Are you taking any new meds for your MPS?   I met a woman a few months who had a very strong tremor in her hands from an anti-depressant.     Shaking can also be a symptom of any number of other things that can be identified or ruled out by your physician.  Have it checked – much better than to keep guessing and worrying.    Yes, I’ve had that happen.  Back in the old days, before I was diabetic, I went through the shakes almost every day,  because I was so busy taking care of the babies,  I forgot to feed me!!   Now, it’s the CFIDS telling me I way overdid.  I wish it would tell me before it was too late!!!  Take care of yourself.  We care.. melodymom AKA Denise – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I was wondering if shaking really bad has anything to do with diabetes? I have been shaking really bad for the last three days. It has been hard to type without redoing it because my hands are always shaking. It is like a person who is really nervous would shake all over. I check my BG but it is usually really good around 120 sometimes just a little higher. Does anyone else do this? Thanks for any input. Diana — People Ask Me Why I Love God? Because He First Loved Me

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Diana I dont know if you are continually shaking or perhaps you are not eating your meals at the right times. Whatever, three days of shaking should be told to your doctor and let him tell you what it is.  Do you feel nervous about anything.  Call your doctor because no matter what anyone says here, we cannot diagose what is wrong and even if we have shakes, which in the rare instancesI I dont eat,I can get the shakes,  it does not mean you have the same condition. Please call the doctor. Loretta

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p.s.   I hope you are better at taking my excellent advice than I am.          Also, I love your signature thingy. Hugs, me melodymom wrote – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Diana,   Any new symptom that interferes with your life should be discussed with your doctor.  It could be something simple, like fatigue, stress, too melodymom AKA Denise People Ask Me Why I Love God? Because He First Loved Me

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Hi Rene Tiger Lily was telling me it could be my antidepressant that I was put on a month ago. I didn’t start shaking until recently and it is annoying because I feel like I am going to shake out of my body. I am on Zoloft for depression and it may not be the right one for me. I am going to let my doctor know. Caffeine has never been a problem for me so I don’t think it would be that. I don’t drink coffee except on rare occasions. The shaking does wake me up too. I too have the awful nausea that is so overwhelming I can hardly stand it. I can’t even take my meds when I first need to because I know they wouldn’t stay put. I didn’t start that until right before my diagnosis. My doctor has been told of the severe nausea but she doesn’t address it. I wish she would though because it double me over every day. I do it first thing in the morning and again later in the day. If you are on an antidepressant I would ask the doctor if maybe you need a different one. My BGs have been good except the past few days I have been depressed more than usual and that is when I eat the most. But I have to stop this stuff. I can’t go on abusing my health like this. I am a mood eater and it is so hard when I am mad or depressed not to eat. I don’t eat out of boredom or anything so it isn’t that either. If you too find out finally about the shaking let me know too OK? Thanks Diana — People Ask Me Why I Love God? Because He First Loved Me – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Diana, I am a 32 yr old type 1 for 10yr diabetic. I started having problems at the beginning of this year with a nauseated stomach.  I got real worried and have had trouble getting better. I notice that I experience a nervous shaking sort of like when you have way too much caffine.  It seems to get me even with normal blood sugars.  I wake up alot at about 5 in the morning and feel this way and have a hard time getting to sleep.  If you figure out what is wrong please let me know.  My doctor is still trying to figure out what is wrong. your not alone Rene Garza p.s. :  please respond Hi, I was wondering if shaking really bad has anything to do with diabetes? I have been shaking really bad for the last three days. It has been hard to type without redoing it because my hands are always shaking. It is like a person who is really nervous would shake all over. I check my BG but it is usually really good around 120 sometimes just a little higher. Does anyone else do this? Thanks for any input. Diana — People Ask Me Why I Love God? Because He First Loved Me

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Hi, I was wondering if shaking really bad has anything to do with diabetes?

For me, when my bgs are TOO low I feel shakey, but I can’t see shakey unless I’m under about 85. I don’t remember how your bgs were running last month but maybe you’ve come down so much your body is adjusting. Caffeine can make you shaky if you’re taking asperin or something like that. Is it all over or just in your hands?  If it wasn’t Saturday night, I’d suggest its worth a call to your doctors office. I’m not sure its an emergency. Does your doctor or hospital have a 24 hour nurse on duty for these type of questions? Carol  I – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – have been shaking really bad for the last three days. It has been hard to type without redoing it because my hands are always shaking. It is like a person who is really nervous would shake all over. I check my BG but it is usually really good around 120 sometimes just a little higher. Does anyone else do this? Thanks for any input. Diana — People Ask Me Why I Love God? Because He First Loved Me

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I’m on Pentasa and Imuran and taking Propanolol for the shaking.  It’s generally gotten worse over the years and so has slurred speach and just in general problems that are similar.  I’ve seen a neurologist and they have no clue.  I’m seeing a new doctor as I’ve moved and think he may turn something up.  My blood pressure is fine but sugar intake may be an idea of something to look into.  I am a sugar junky though.  I tend to have to eat something in the morning or vomit (bile I think, its yellow, tastes horrible).  Really thats all thats wrong as I have been in fairly good health other than fatigue (thank god for red bull).  Thanks for the ideas everyone! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I get the same way. Not to often but one time I passed out. Man that was the worse headache I have ever had. When I worked I would carry peanut butter crackers in the car for the ride home. I worked 50 miles from home, and I would eat the crackers in traffic, and I would be alright. If I forgot, I would get the shakes so bad I would puke out my car door at times. It is not fun when your body is not happy with you. It’s hypoglycemia.  I used to pass out, too, until I changed my eating habits.  Cut down on the sweets and alcohol, especially on an empty stomach.  Eat protein and healthy fats instead.  If you must eat sweets make sure there is some fat in the mix, it slows down the blood sugar rise and then the falloff afterwards.  It’s the falloff afterwards that makes you pass out.  I had to give up alcohol altogether.

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Well soon the 16 a day Pentasa go away! Yeah! LOL so hopeful that will cut my count down some.  Right now I am not taking a few of them, with my drs knowledge, until we get to the bottom of this.  He doesn’t want to stop the Pentasa until after we do the last of the tests an decide what meds is the best for me at this time.  The Pentasa isn’t stopping the bleeding and so forth but it could be helping the bleeding not get to excessive for such a short time I need to be on it.  So, can’t see where this will hurt.   I just want to get on to the plan already!   I did catch the bleeding early which is good.  He now really believes I know my body and what is norm and abnormal most of the time.  But he is just being real cautious and  I like this part of it.  This way he will know exactly where the problem is and what would be best to start me with to try to get control of everything.  UM MOM Susan – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ok, ok, i give up….lol.  you eat meds for meals…i am close, between meds and vitamins, i am usually too full to eat breakfast in the mornings….lol. jeffy I take more than you Jeff.  I call walking the tic tac syndrome!  UM MOM Susan no, that is why i rattle when i walk. jeff With that many meds is there any room for the blood???;-)))) Tony i am 10 meds, plus remicade, plus allergy shots. the tacrolimus is doing it, is a known side effect of tacro. jeffy some immunomodulators cause this, i know i have a little, but i doubt that is your issue.  tacrolimus causes shakes as well as cyclosplorine. jeffy Another question, I have over the years been suffering from shaking and tremors (like Parkisons) and my doctors are unsure if this is related to the crohns/colitis or anotehr problem.  Anyone else have this issue.  Its been getting worse over time and I have been prednisone free for well over 3 years. I get the shakes but put it down to high doses of pred. Should not bother you after 3 years.  What other meds u on? Tony — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. So check it anyway!! No attachments unless advised in body of email. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). 10/03/2003 — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. So check it anyway!! No attachments unless advised in body of email. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

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ok, ok, i give up….lol.  you eat meds for meals…i am close, between meds and vitamins, i am usually too full to eat breakfast in the mornings….lol. jeffy

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I take more than you Jeff.  I call walking the tic tac syndrome!  UM MOM Susan no, that is why i rattle when i walk. jeff With that many meds is there any room for the blood???;-)))) Tony i am 10 meds, plus remicade, plus allergy shots. the tacrolimus is doing it, is a known side effect of tacro. jeffy some immunomodulators cause this, i know i have a little, but i doubt that is your issue.  tacrolimus causes shakes as well as cyclosplorine. jeffy Another question, I have over the years been suffering from shaking and tremors (like Parkisons) and my doctors are unsure if this is related to the crohns/colitis or anotehr problem.  Anyone else have this issue.  Its been getting worse over time and I have been prednisone free for well over 3 years. I get the shakes but put it down to high doses of pred. Should not bother you after 3 years.  What other meds u on? Tony — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. So check it anyway!! No attachments unless advised in body of email. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. So check it anyway!! No attachments unless advised in body of email. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

I take more than you Jeff.  I call walking the tic tac syndrome!  UM MOM Susan – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – no, that is why i rattle when i walk. jeff With that many meds is there any room for the blood???;-)))) Tony i am 10 meds, plus remicade, plus allergy shots. the tacrolimus is doing it, is a known side effect of tacro. jeffy some immunomodulators cause this, i know i have a little, but i doubt that is your issue.  tacrolimus causes shakes as well as cyclosplorine. jeffy Another question, I have over the years been suffering from shaking and tremors (like Parkisons) and my doctors are unsure if this is related to the crohns/colitis or anotehr problem.  Anyone else have this issue.  Its been getting worse over time and I have been prednisone free for well over 3 years. I get the shakes but put it down to high doses of pred. Should not bother you after 3 years.  What other meds u on? Tony — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. So check it anyway!! No attachments unless advised in body of email. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. So check it anyway!! No attachments unless advised in body of email. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

no, that is why i rattle when i walk. jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – With that many meds is there any room for the blood???;-)))) Tony i am 10 meds, plus remicade, plus allergy shots. the tacrolimus is doing it, is a known side effect of tacro. jeffy some immunomodulators cause this, i know i have a little, but i doubt that is your issue.  tacrolimus causes shakes as well as cyclosplorine. jeffy Another question, I have over the years been suffering from shaking and tremors (like Parkisons) and my doctors are unsure if this is related to the crohns/colitis or anotehr problem.  Anyone else have this issue.  Its been getting worse over time and I have been prednisone free for well over 3 years. I get the shakes but put it down to high doses of pred. Should not bother you after 3 years.  What other meds u on? Tony — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. So check it anyway!! No attachments unless advised in body of email. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. So check it anyway!! No attachments unless advised in body of email. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

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With that many meds is there any room for the blood???;-)))) Tony – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i am 10 meds, plus remicade, plus allergy shots. the tacrolimus is doing it, is a known side effect of tacro. jeffy some immunomodulators cause this, i know i have a little, but i doubt that is your issue.  tacrolimus causes shakes as well as cyclosplorine. jeffy Another question, I have over the years been suffering from shaking and tremors (like Parkisons) and my doctors are unsure if this is related to the crohns/colitis or anotehr problem.  Anyone else have this issue.  Its been getting worse over time and I have been prednisone free for well over 3 years. I get the shakes but put it down to high doses of pred. Should not bother you after 3 years.  What other meds u on? Tony — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. So check it anyway!! No attachments unless advised in body of email. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

— Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. So check it anyway!! No attachments unless advised in body of email. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

This is interesting. I have CD. I also have low blood sugar and low blood pressure. I don’t know how they fit togather, if indeed they do. If I don’t eat properly I get lightheaded and then get the shakes soon after. I usually have a chocolate bar within reach, just in case.

I had low blood pressure too, until the pred did its thing… Tony — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. So check it anyway!! No attachments unless advised in body of email. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

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I get the same way. Not to often but one time I passed out. Man that was the worse headache I have ever had. When I worked I would carry peanut butter crackers in the car for the ride home. I worked 50 miles from home, and I would eat the crackers in traffic, and I would be alright. If I forgot, I would get the shakes so bad I would puke out my car door at times. It is not fun when your body is not happy with you.

It’s hypoglycemia.  I used to pass out, too, until I changed my eating habits.  Cut down on the sweets and alcohol, especially on an empty stomach.  Eat protein and healthy fats instead.  If you must eat sweets make sure there is some fat in the mix, it slows down the blood sugar rise and then the falloff afterwards.  It’s the falloff afterwards that makes you pass out.  I had to give up alcohol altogether. — Clark Zahn Registered linux user 267087

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This is interesting. I have CD. I also have low blood sugar and low blood pressure. I don’t know how they fit togather, if indeed they do. If I don’t eat properly I get lightheaded and then get the shakes soon after. I usually have a chocolate bar within reach, just in case.

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I get the same way. Not to often but one time I passed out. Man that was the worse headache I have ever had. When I worked I would carry peanut butter crackers in the car for the ride home. I worked 50 miles from home, and I would eat the crackers in traffic, and I would be alright. If I forgot, I would get the shakes so bad I would puke out my car door at times. It is not fun when your body is not happy with you. Allison – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – now that you mention it, I used to shake badly & when I ate the shakes went away.  Ended up I used to carry some sweets around with me all the time & if I started shaking I ate some until I could have a meal. Tony I was having the shakes when I got run down. I started to use sugar as a pick me up. I became hypo-glosumic. I don’t think I spelled that right. The shaking had to do with my sugar levels. I now eat 4 to 5 meals a day and this shaking I was experiencing has gone away. Another question, I have over the years been suffering from shaking and tremors (like Parkisons) and my doctors are unsure if this is related to the crohns/colitis or anotehr problem.  Anyone else have this issue.  Its been getting worse over time and I have been prednisone free for well over 3 years. — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. So check it anyway!! No attachments unless advised in body of email. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

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now that you mention it, I used to shake badly & when I ate the shakes went away.  Ended up I used to carry some sweets around with me all the time & if I started shaking I ate some until I could have a meal. Tony

I was having the shakes when I got run down. I started to use sugar as a pick me up. I became hypo-glosumic. I don’t think I spelled that right. The shaking had to do with my sugar levels. I now eat 4 to 5 meals a day and this shaking I was experiencing has gone away. Another question, I have over the years been suffering from shaking and tremors (like Parkisons) and my doctors are unsure if this is related to the crohns/colitis or anotehr problem.  Anyone else have this issue.  Its been getting worse over time and I have been prednisone free for well over 3 years.

— Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. So check it anyway!! No attachments unless advised in body of email. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

i am 10 meds, plus remicade, plus allergy shots. the tacrolimus is doing it, is a known side effect of tacro. jeffy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – some immunomodulators cause this, i know i have a little, but i doubt that is your issue.  tacrolimus causes shakes as well as cyclosplorine. jeffy Another question, I have over the years been suffering from shaking and tremors (like Parkisons) and my doctors are unsure if this is related to the crohns/colitis or anotehr problem.  Anyone else have this issue.  Its been getting worse over time and I have been prednisone free for well over 3 years. I get the shakes but put it down to high doses of pred. Should not bother you after 3 years.  What other meds u on? Tony — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. So check it anyway!! No attachments unless advised in body of email. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

I was having the shakes when I got run down. I started to use sugar as a pick me up. I became hypo-glosumic. I don’t think I spelled that right. The shaking had to do with my sugar levels. I now eat 4 to 5 meals a day and this shaking I was experiencing has gone away.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Another question, I have over the years been suffering from shaking and tremors (like Parkisons) and my doctors are unsure if this is related to the crohns/colitis or anotehr problem.  Anyone else have this issue.  Its been getting worse over time and I have been prednisone free for well over 3 years.

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my hands sometimes shake a tiny little bit. I think it could be related to blood pressure maybe. Sarah

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Another question, I have over the years been suffering from shaking and tremors (like Parkisons) and my doctors are unsure if this is related to the crohns/colitis or anotehr problem.  Anyone else have this issue.  Its been getting worse over time and I have been prednisone free for well over 3 years.

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I can get shakes fairly good aswell. i mainly get it with pain but the odd time i just get shaky. i don’t know why.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Another question, I have over the years been suffering from shaking and tremors (like Parkisons) and my doctors are unsure if this is related to the crohns/colitis or anotehr problem.  Anyone else have this issue.  Its been getting worse over time and I have been prednisone free for well over 3 years.

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some immunomodulators cause this, i know i have a little, but i doubt that is your issue.  tacrolimus causes shakes as well as cyclosplorine. jeffy Another question, I have over the years been suffering from shaking and tremors (like Parkisons) and my doctors are unsure if this is related to the crohns/colitis or anotehr problem.  Anyone else have this issue.  Its been getting worse over time and I have been prednisone free for well over 3 years.

I get the shakes but put it down to high doses of pred. Should not bother you after 3 years.  What other meds u on? Tony — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. So check it anyway!! No attachments unless advised in body of email. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

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You need to see a neurologist. Debs – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Another question, I have over the years been suffering from shaking and tremors (like Parkisons) and my doctors are unsure if this is related to the crohns/colitis or anotehr problem.  Anyone else have this issue.  Its been getting worse over time and I have been prednisone free for well over 3 years.

Response:

some immunomodulators cause this, i know i have a little, but i doubt that is your issue.  tacrolimus causes shakes as well as cyclosplorine. jeffy

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Another question, I have over the years been suffering from shaking and tremors (like Parkisons) and my doctors are unsure if this is related to the crohns/colitis or anotehr problem.  Anyone else have this issue.  Its been getting worse over time and I have been prednisone free for well over 3 years.

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Another question, I have over the years been suffering from shaking and tremors (like Parkisons) and my doctors are unsure if this is related to the crohns/colitis or anotehr problem.  Anyone else have this issue.  Its been getting worse over time and I have been prednisone free for well over 3 years.

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Question:

Be very careful using this herb as I have experieced severe manic episodes from it. It is not regulated in this country so the proper doses can catastrophic for some BP’S.

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If you are bipolar, you should know that you need a mood stabilizer with any antidepressant drug. Synthetics do the same thing only much, much worse. I take SJW along with my Lithium. I’ve never felt better in my life!!! So swish, swish to Prozac, effexor, doxepin, zoloft etc. etc. etc. Just one flush!!! Lindsey

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Question:

The following link is with a collection of links about poisonous plants: http://www.ScienceOxygen.com/botany95.html It does not provide any answer directly. But you might start from there to check the associated information.

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Hi All, I have been paging through the various seed catalogs and have seen a wide variety of flowers I’d love to grow.  I have been disappointed in many cases when I saw that Thompson & Morgan listed them as "poisonous".

Don’t be disappointed, it’s a fact that many plants are poisonous, and T&M are simply helping remind the reader of the fact. Two or three seeds of Ricinus can kill a child if eaten, and Aconitum plant fluids are very deadly, as may be the seeds as well. On the other hand, it would take eating a lot of Datura to kill anybody. Most of the buttercup family are fairly poisonous (Aconites, Ranunculus, Trollius, etc.). There are so many plants that are poisonous, though fewer are quickly fatal at small dosages, that it is not really feasible to eliminate them from one’s garden. I would avoid planting Castor beans and Aconites around children’s playgrounds, though, especially, and perhaps some other plants. It is generally wise to teach all children never to put any plants in their mouths. When I was a kid I remember sucking on honeysuckles and stuff we called ’sourgrass’ and lots of other things, with no ill effects. But kids may experiment beyond what local lore has as ‘edible’. Sucking the juice out of the friendly looking Lily of the Valley can be deadly.

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I have been paging through the various seed catalogs and have seen a wide variety of flowers I’d love to grow.  I have been disappointed in many cases when I saw that Thompson & Morgan listed them as "poisonous". This is the case for datura, sweet peas, four o’ clocks, many varieties of nicotiana and others.  Other catalogs (Burpees, Select Seeds, WFF) do not give a similar warning for many of the flowers.  I’m not a toxicologist and have no way of knowing how "poisonous" these plants are. Can anyone shed some light on this subject?

Steve, When a plant is labeled as poisonous, the level of toxicity may not be known.  The range could be anything from deadly to just causing a mild rash. The toxicity of the plant should be considered in two major areas. The first deals with children and animals.  If you have children, they may come in contact, or even ingest, the plants in your garden.  The same is true for pets or farm animals.  The presence of poisonous plants needs to be considered. The second area of concern deals with the gardener’s safety.  Direct contact with the plants may cause negative effects.  Taking precautions like long sleeves and gloves may be all it takes.  The warning of being poisonous in the catalog may be just a flag for you to be careful. If toxicity is a concern before you buy, check out exactly what level of poisoning your dealing with on the plants and flowers you are considering.   For a general guide to toxicity of plants, check out "Take Care With Plants" at –          http://www.ucdmc.ucdavis.edu/poison_control/plants.html This is part of the internet edition The Poison Center Answer Book prepared by the University of California, Davis, Medical Center (UCDMC) Regional Poison Control Center. Hope this helps.  Good luck with your garden. Marc

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Hi All, I have been paging through the various seed catalogs and have seen a wide variety of flowers I’d love to grow.  I have been disappointed in many cases when I saw that Thompson & Morgan listed them as "poisonous". This is the case for datura, sweet peas, four o’ clocks, many varieties of nicotiana and others.  Other catalogs (Burpees, Select Seeds, WFF) do not give a similar warning for many of the flowers.  I’m not a toxicologist and have no way of knowing how "poisonous" these plants are. Can anyone shed some light on this subject? Steve Cook Macungie, PA USDA

Many of the plants referred to as ‘poisonous’ are not very toxic. Some, like holly or mistletoe, will cause a mild stomach ache or the like.  Those plants that are very toxic should be considered carefully.  It is confusing when many varieties of plants are categorized as being toxic or poisonous when most of them aren’t really poisonous enough to be of any consequence.  If you have any doubt, ask a nurseryman in your area for advice.  For reference some common plants which are highly toxic are as follows:         Dieffenbachia         Oleander         Rhubarb (green parts of leaves)         Digitalis (foxgloves)         some cacti         most Solanum sp.         Datura (angel’s trumpets)         You should also consider that many plants with milky sap are also very toxic, as are the pits of many fruits (cyanide).  Even the rinds of some fruits like passion fruit have been found to be toxic enough for consideration.  Likewise, some plants often listed as poisonous, but not much so are as follows:         Philodendron         Grasses         Ficus

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Hi All, I have been paging through the various seed catalogs and have seen a wide variety of flowers I’d love to grow.  I have been disappointed in many cases when I saw that Thompson & Morgan listed them as "poisonous". This is the case for datura, sweet peas, four o’ clocks, many varieties of nicotiana and others.  Other catalogs (Burpees, Select Seeds, WFF) do not give a similar warning for many of the flowers.  I’m not a toxicologist and have no way of knowing how "poisonous" these plants are. Can anyone shed some light on this subject?

Hi Steve, The warning of poisonous in your T&M catalogue is merely a courtesy, most catalogues don’t bother. Datura is a hallucinogenic (sp?), nicotanias contain nicotine and so on. (Although I’m curious about the sweet peas, I’ve never heard there was a problem with them) Don’t let the warning deter you from planting these plants. Most garden plants are only poisonous if they are eaten, not by handling. Even edible plants can be poisonous if not used correctly, for example, more that one tablespoon of fresh rosemary leaves can cause a toxic reaction in an adult human and rhubard *leaves* (not stalks) can cause internal bleeding, severe stomach cramps and poisoning. Some plants can kill, some can make you very sick, while others are perfectly safe. The only time you need to truly worry about this is when very young children will be in and around plantings. Children are very likely to put leaves and flowers into their mouths. Small children should never be left unattended in a garden where the possibility of poison exist. (Actually the period in that last sentence should probably fall after the word ‘garden’.) There are several books that refer to the toxicity of plants, unfortunately I don’t have any references for you, perhaps someone else will. The rule for anyone though is: never, *never*, NEVER eat from a plant, in the garden or the wild, unless you know exactly what it is and whether it is safe. But Steve, don’t let the poisonous label deter you from planting the flowers in your garden unless you have the above-mentioned small children. If you do, check out the edible flower thread that is currently going on. You can get some suggestions for ’safe’ plants there. Hope this helps Marianne — As soon as I have something important to say, I’ll put it here.

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I have been paging through the various seed catalogs and have seen a wide variety of flowers I’d love to grow.  I have been disappointed in many cases when I saw that Thompson & Morgan listed them as "poisonous". This is the case for datura, sweet peas, four o’ clocks, many varieties of nicotiana and others.  Other catalogs (Burpees, Select Seeds, WFF) do not give a similar warning for many of the flowers.  I’m not a toxicologist and have no way of knowing how "poisonous" these plants are. Can anyone shed some light on this subject?

The real question is whether it matters to you that the plants are poisonous. I guess the seed companies are just trying to protect themselves from dorks who try to sue them ("I added those Sweet Pea seeds to soup and they poisoned me – it’s your fault!"). There are few if any species which will harm you unless you actually eat the seeds or plant, and unless the plant actually looks attractive to eat, this is most unlikely (with the attractive berries of Deadly Nightshade – Atropa belladonna being an exception). So long as *you* aren’t going to eat the plant, and you are satisfied that young children won’t, then there’s little to worry about. I guess I didn’t answer your question of *how* poisonous they are! In the case of the deadly nightshade – very! I’d guess the Sweet Pea seeds are like many other dried pulses (peas/beans) that you can buy to eat – not good for you unless soaked and boiled. Nicotiana – they make cigarettes out of it. Datura – well discussed in recent threads, but a very attractive plant. I don’t know about Four o’clock – Mirabilis jalapa, except that I’ve seen the ‘poisonous’ notices on it too. — Clarke Brunt (CCB), Principal Software Engineer, Laser-Scan Ltd, Science Park, Milton Rd, CAMBRIDGE, CB4 4FY, England. Tel: (+44) (0)1223 420414; Fax: 420044

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Hi All, I have been paging through the various seed catalogs and have seen a wide variety of flowers I’d love to grow.  I have been disappointed in many cases when I saw that Thompson & Morgan listed them as "poisonous". This is the case for datura, sweet peas, four o’ clocks, many varieties of nicotiana and others.  Other catalogs (Burpees, Select Seeds, WFF) do not give a similar warning for many of the flowers.  I’m not a toxicologist and have no way of knowing how "poisonous" these plants are. Can anyone shed some light on this subject? Steve Cook Macungie, PA USDA Z6 — * Air Products and Chemicals, Inc.          Tel. (610) 481-2135     * * 7201 Hamilton Blvd.                       FAX  (610) 481-8803     * * Allentown, PA 18195                                               * * USA                                                               * *             Emacs – the choice of a GNU generation                * * Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are those of the author.  * *             Any resemblance between my opinions and those of Air  * *             Products is purely coincidental…                    *

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You may wish to refer to an article by Dr. Paul Wenders group at U. Utah:: Reimarr, F et al ,An open trial of L-Tyrosine in the Treatment of Attention Deficit Disorder, Residual Type. AMERICAN JOURNAL OF PSYCHIATRY, 144:8 August 1987, pp 1071-3 This study used doses of 50-150mg/kg in adults with ADD.  Eight of twelve patients had a "marked to moderate" response after 2 weeks, but all developed tolerance at 6 weeks.   In re the comments about tyrosine not effecting CNS levels of dopamine and norepinephrine (as compared to tryptophane — serotonin) I doubt that its that simple.   Why would tyrosine/phenylanaine supplementation have a positive effec in some cases of depression? You may wish to look up some writings by Dr. Richard Wurtman that will correlate amino acid loading with increase in central neurotransmitters. Are you also taking supplements of B vitamine (B6) that will aid the production of dopamine? In closing, you may find as I have that tyrosine used concurrently with a stimulant will have even better results than either alone.  Good luck Bob

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You may wish to refer to an article by Dr. Paul Wenders group at U. Utah:: Reimarr, F et al ,An open trial of L-Tyrosine in the Treatment of Attention Deficit Disorder, Residual Type. AMERICAN JOURNAL OF PSYCHIATRY, 144:8 August 1987, pp 1071-3 This study used doses of 50-150mg/kg in adults with ADD.  Eight of twelve patients had a "marked to moderate" response after 2 weeks, but all developed tolerance at 6 weeks.   In re the comments about tyrosine not effecting CNS levels of dopamine and norepinephrine (as compared to tryptophane — serotonin) I doubt that its that simple.   Why would tyrosine/phenylanaine supplementation have a positive effec in some cases of depression? You may wish to look up some writings by Dr. Richard Wurtman that will correlate amino acid loading with increase in central neurotransmitters.

Just to let you know where I’m coming from, for what it’s worth, here’s a quote from "The Molecular Foundations of Psychiatry" by S.E.Hyman & E.J. Nestler, pg 71:         Tyrosine hydroxylase is the rate limiting enzyme of catecholamine         [i.e. dopamine and norepinephrine] synthesis…Because tyrosine         hydroxylase exists at relatively low levels, and *under normal         conditions* is already supersaturated by the amount of tyrosine         found in the brain, it is very difficult to influence brain         catecholamine synthesis through variations in dietary tyrosine. Notice the qualification "under normal conditions".  There could be exceptions, for example, in persons with abnormal brain chemistry. Stanley – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Are you also taking supplements of B vitamine (B6) that will aid the production of dopamine? In closing, you may find as I have that tyrosine used concurrently with a stimulant will have even better results than either alone.  Good luck Bob

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Which is the reason that L-Dopa is used to treat Parkinson’s disease rather than tyrosine.  I beleive that too many people expect too great of results from substances such as amino acids  Similarly too many in the medical/scientific community are just as fast to write off any real effect.   To simply state that tyrosine hydroxylase is the rate limiting factor may be a simplification.  (Does this consider variations depending on time of day?)   The Wender writing stated that a period of two weeks passed before an effect was noticed, which he compared to the delayed response found in most antidepressant drugs.  (Similarly he found no usefulness beyond 6 weeks, tolerance?) To my understanding, tricyclic antidepressants cause an immediate blockage of reuptake and consequential increase in synaptic transmitter levels but clinical response is delayed 2-6 weeks.  Why?  This suggests actions beyond the immediate cast of players, be it amino acids, enzymes, neurotransmitters and/or drugs, on an IMMEDIATE basis. I hope to respond to you giving a few other citations later. I invite your comments on a relate issue, ie, the differing actions of d-amphetamine and methylphenidate.  As a person with ADD, I had extreme problems (anxiety, dysphoria) with larger doses of Ritalin(40-60mg/dose), which my doctor simply excused to my greater awareness to the world.  I have no such problems with ROUGHLY equivalent doses of Dexedrine(15mg).  I have read that these two drugs act on different dopamine pools in the brain, and that methylphenidate actually inhibits the actions of amphetamine.(Research I beleive done by a researcher at Duke, McEwen or similar name reported in TIPS mid 80s)  Similarly methylphenidate seems to provoke epileptic activity, where amphetamine tends to inhibit it (Dexedrine is marketed as an anticonvulsant in Canada, I doubt this is only for its anti-drowsiness effects re phenobarbital) As a child I experienced nocturnal epilepsy but I have read nothing clinically about the selection of antiADD drugs in epileptics for example.  What is the current thinking (theoretically as well as clinically) regarding this diffenence between the actions of thes amphetamine like drugs and the methylphenidate like drugs?. Regards Bob

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Tyrosine is a great way to prevent depletion of neurotransmitters as a result of psychostimulant therapy. Phenylalanine competes with tryptophan for entry to the brain and should not even be considered – it made me angry as all hell!! All by itself its probably nowhere near as effective, because the body is good at keeping levels where it thinks they should be. L-Dopa effectively bypasses this mechanism – anyone got any data on it? L-Dopa can [according to a friend] be made by feeding potatoes lots of tyrosine, then eating them [he didnt say whether they were cooked or not] — Its always the same / Im the only one who’s always left to blame / Take what you can take / Hurt is your only idea of a game / To break away / I dont have that within me / And I’m not afraid / So I bite the hand that feeds me… / When all you do is break me / And put me in a cage     Front 242, Animal.

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Someone posted a message recently about Tyrosine conflicting with antidepressants. Anyone have any details?

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: I really hate these kinds of replies. : Why do you bother doing this without getting the facts?  Gosh.. You’ve : succeeded in making me angry. : I have probably been diagnosed with ADD more times than you have, Ed. : about 3 or 4.  from neurologists and psychiatrists.  I have tried every : drug known from stimulants to wellbutrin. : lay off, and find out the facts before you waste your time talking without : knowing. : If you don know, ASK.  don’t suggest things that have already been done IN : EXCESS! : Now, if someone could INTELLECTUALLY respond to my message,  I would : appreciate it.   : I appologize to all reading this, it just makes me upset to have someone : respond to me like this. Jason, you _asked_ for opinions; and that’s what you got.  Don’t complain that somebody offered you the best advice that anybody could in response to your description of experimenting with self-treatment for ADD "symptoms". I’ve tried Ritalin, switched to Dexedrine, went back to Ritalin, added Effexor along with Ritalin, and still some of my symptoms persist. However, all through this process (a little over 2 years now) I’ve been seeing a therapist (psychologist) on a regular basis, as well at the less frequent appointments with neurologist, neuropsychologist, and psychiatrist. Oh, can’t forget my general practicioner MD, either. For many people, drugs are not enough–some type of therapy or counselling can help them take control over their life.  For some of us it’s the first time ever we’ve felt even close to being in the driver’s seat, and it can be a frightening/frustrating experience–not knowing what we’re supposed to do first, or do next, or do after that, or… Final note: regarding self-prescribed vitamin, mineral, amino acid, "natural" supplements, a biochemical/medical researcher (PhD+) advised me, "I recommend against it; when you start messing with chemical balance in your brain you can really screw things up."   _I’d_ recommend taking Ed’s advice: seek professional help and stick with it. (I apologize if the tone of this post started getting hot, but what you’re  doing _is_ playing with fire.  Be really careful!)       "Well, heck. It sounded like a _really_good_idea_, at the time."

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I really hate these kinds of replies. Why do you bother doing this without getting the facts?  Gosh.. You’ve succeeded in making me angry. I have probably been diagnosed with ADD more times than you have, Ed. about 3 or 4.  from neurologists and psychiatrists.  I have tried every drug known from stimulants to wellbutrin. lay off, and find out the facts before you waste your time talking without knowing. If you don know, ASK.  don’t suggest things that have already been done IN EXCESS! Now, if someone could INTELLECTUALLY respond to my message,  I would appreciate it.   I appologize to all reading this, it just makes me upset to have someone respond to me like this. Jason —- The fear of the unknown is a response to the excesses of the imagination.

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