Question:

Let me just take a wild guess here and assume u took an ssri. I’ve been on and off mine for years, off now for at least a year, and I get the shakes in the morning for no reason. I now believe what it took exacerbated my anxiety but so did other things. You could cut out all caffeine, tobacco, get more exercise, practice deep breathing, go to cognitive behavioral therapy, but most important at all, i think, is not to obsess about it. just enjoy it until it goes away- it’s nothing to worry about.

Response:

You could cut out all caffeine, tobacco, get more exercise, practice deep breathing, go to cognitive behavioral therapy, but most important at all, i think, is not to obsess about it. just enjoy it until it goes away- it’s nothing to worry about.

Thanks a lot! I have been heading towards the same conclusion myself! More than the trembling, it is the _anticipation_ of the trembling that exacerbates it.Thank you for your comments.

Response:

Hello there,   I have had bouts of mild depression ,but i had taken medication and am now not on medicines. But, I have occasional bouts of trembling hands or legs and excessive sweating. This happens (not surprisingly) when there are other people arpund. When I take a spoon of sugar to put it into someones cup, my hands shake visibly. When I get onstage to speak , my legs shake like there is some spring inside them (I have never had shaky legs while going onstage until about a year ago -even though I did have stage fear). And, when I talk to people I suddenly start sweating profusely and sometimes my speach slurs (I then feel like words are crashing throgh my mind and my mouth ain’t fast enough to speak my thoughts).Once or twice , I’ve woken up with a start due to marked twiching of some part of my body which disappears as soon as I get up.This is a source of real social embarrassment for me. What’s worse is that when I start trembling or sweating, I also get anxious that I am t. or s. and this acts like some feedback mechanism and _increases_ the t. and s.   I am 18 years old and am otherwise healthy. I do not want to take medicine for this.Can anyone tell me a way out of this which involves only exercise and proper diet? And yes, my sleep cycles are awry and I have a sizeable sleep debt.

Response:

Depending on what medication you were on it may still be some lingering side effect. I am not a doctor but I have heard of this happening sometimes. It sounds to me that you may have symptoms of some anxiety disorder. I would go to the docotor and get checked to rule out anything else. I sure you hate to take meds however we all do but you gotta do what ya gotta do sometimes. Hopefully some type of exercise will work for you. Take care. Paul

Response:

Wow, another young one!  I’m 18 as well, as of October 3rd. Anyway, I am on Zoloft, Xanax, and BuSpar, and the first week or so my speech slurred as well, not much, but it was noticeable.  My mom said it sounded like I was drunk.  So, as BlueFin said, it could still be a side-effect, depending on when you stopped the meds.  About the trembling, if it’s violent shaking you should talk to your doctor.  My arms and legs, especially my hands, tremble sometimes and shake when they are not supported and I am really anxious.  My psychologist said that this happened because an anxious person’s heart is pumping blood so fast that it takes it away from the limbs and they start to get tingly and shake.  Since you can still get up on stage, I say you’re doing great!  I couldn’t imagine doing something like that right now. Hope this helped,     Robin Michelle – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello there,   I have had bouts of mild depression ,but i had taken medication and am now not on medicines. But, I have occasional bouts of trembling hands or legs and excessive sweating. This happens (not surprisingly) when there are other people arpund. When I take a spoon of sugar to put it into someones cup, my hands shake visibly. When I get onstage to speak , my legs shake like there is some spring inside them (I have never had shaky legs while going onstage until about a year ago -even though I did have stage fear). And, when I talk to people I suddenly start sweating profusely and sometimes my speach slurs (I then feel like words are crashing throgh my mind and my mouth ain’t fast enough to speak my thoughts).Once or twice , I’ve woken up with a start due to marked twiching of some part of my body which disappears as soon as I get up.This is a source of real social embarrassment for me. What’s worse is that when I start trembling or sweating, I also get anxious that I am t. or s. and this acts like some feedback mechanism and _increases_ the t. and s.   I am 18 years old and am otherwise healthy. I do not want to take medicine for this.Can anyone tell me a way out of this which involves only exercise and proper diet? And yes, my sleep cycles are awry and I have a sizeable sleep debt.

Response:

Question:

Carol: I took Paxil for a year, then switched to Celexa. The latter had far fewer side effects for me. Have you discussed this with your doctor? Best, Anne

Response:

I have been on Celexa, 30mg, for 6-8 weeks now. I have not noticed any side effect whatsoever. I am quite happy with it. AnxiousCollegeKid

Response:

This is a just a "me-too" to SSRI side-effects. The zoloft and effexor I tried out caused nothing but problems… -Doug (remove "botizer" from email addy to respond)

Response:

Hi all, Having a great deal of difficulty with the side effects of the SSRIs, and also having trouble sticking w/them as a result. Which SSRIs do you think have the least side effects? Thanks, Carol

Response:

:Hi all, : :Having a great deal of difficulty with the side effects of the SSRIs, and :also having trouble sticking w/them as a result. : :Which SSRIs do you think have the least side effects? : :Thanks, :Carol Dear Carol, There really is no easy answer to your question being reactions to meds are so very individualized. One SSRI that quite a few are having good luck with is Celexa. However, there is no guarantee that this AD would cause you the least amount of side-effects. How many SSRI`s have you tried? There is also a chance that you just can`t tolerate SSRI`s. You might want to talk to your doctor about the Tricyclic class of antidepressants, they are as effective as the SSRI`s. Take care Jackie ~*~In Everything You Hope Or Do, I`ll Encourage And Believe In You~*~

Response:

Hi all, Having a great deal of difficulty with the side effects of the SSRIs, and also having trouble sticking w/them as a result. Which SSRIs do you think have the least side effects? Thanks, Carol

This is very much an YMMV matter, our reactions to meds are so individual. In theory Celexa is supposed to have the lowest side effects profile of the SSRI’s. You are not married to SSRI’s by the way, there are other antidepressants out there too (such as the TCA’s). Philip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Question:

http://www.effexorfx.freeuk.com/

It linked to http://rxlist.com and I noted the connection between Effexor and blood pressure.  Though the data played down the impact of Effexor, it did indicate that Effexor did raise blood pressure in proportion to dose. I just had my blood pressure taken after 9 months of Effexor XR 150mg.  The first systolic reading was 170 and the second was 160.  The nurse was worried that I was about to have a stroke!  I stopped taking it for several days, today my reading was 145/90 (still too high but not stroke-level). I am going to go for a week without it and see what my blood pressure drops to.  Although I am somewhat overweight and my diet is not too good, I am convinced that the Effexor is the chief cause of my high blood pressure.  Just 2 years ago it was only 125 in a doctor’s office.

Response:

http://www.effexorfx.freeuk.com/

Response:

Question:

Not a peep out of Thomas this time, not a peep out of him last time. Every other justice is in the fray, peppering both sides with questions. Thomas, of course, is the kind of Associate Justice Dubya Dumb likes…he’s got his eyes, ears and mouth shut. — Harry Krause We ought to make the pie higher. -GW Bush

Response:

Not a peep out of Thomas this time, not a peep out of him last time. Every other justice is in the fray, peppering both sides with questions. Thomas, of course, is the kind of Associate Justice Dubya Dumb likes…he’s got his eyes, ears and mouth shut.

That’s what you get with affirmative action. You might show a bit more sensibility and patience. Perhaps you’d benefit from diversity training? — Skipper

Response:

That’s what you get with affirmative action.

Absolutely unbelievable. That’s a troll, right? Chuck Gould Float and let float.

Response:

Not a peep out of Thomas this time, not a peep out of him last time. Every other justice is in the fray, peppering both sides with questions. Thomas, of course, is the kind of Associate Justice Dubya Dumb likes…he’s got his eyes, ears and mouth shut.

Or perhaps he’s got his eyes and ears open open, but keeping his mouth shut…Unlike Harry, whose mouth is the only thing he keeps open.

Response:

Not a peep out of Thomas this time, not a peep out of him last time. Every other justice is in the fray, peppering both sides with questions. Thomas, of course, is the kind of Associate Justice Dubya Dumb likes…he’s got his eyes, ears and mouth shut. That’s what you get with affirmative action. You might show a bit more sensibility and patience. Perhaps you’d benefit from diversity training? — Skipper

There are and were plenty of quality minority judges who could have been raised to Associate Justice. Instead, we got a dimwit. A judge Bush likes. — Harry Krause I think he needs to stand up and say if he thought the president were wrong on policy and issues, he ought to say where. -GW Bush

Response:

Not a peep out of Thomas this time, not a peep

out of him last time. Every other justice is in the fray, peppering

both sides with questions. Thomas, of course, is the kind of Associate

Justice Dubya Dumb likes…he’s got his eyes, ears and mouth shut. — Harry Krause

Thomas has always remained silent during oral arguments.  True in this hearing. true in all other hearings.   To make a negative assumption on that fact alone is ridiculous. To insult him is juvenile.

Response:

Nothing wrong with responding to

a troll with another troll is there?<< — Steve If only they would go off together and beat each other to death and leave the rest of us alone.

Response:

Nothing wrong with responding to a troll with another troll is there?<< — Steve If only they would go off together and beat each other to death and leave the rest of us alone.

You republithugs are really into violence… — Harry Krause The only things that I can tell you is that every case I have reviewed I have been comfortable with the innocence or guilt of the person that I’ve looked at. I do not believe we’ve put a guilty … I mean innocent person to death in the state of Texas. -GW Bush

Response:

There are and were plenty of quality minority judges who could have been raised to Associate Justice. Instead, we got a dimwit. A judge Bush likes.

And we have another justice who apparently rides to court on her broom. — Skipper

Response:

Nothing wrong with responding to a troll with another troll is there? If only they would go off together and beat each other to death and leave the rest of us alone.

Which bar admitted you, sweetie? — Skipper

Response:

First of all Harry, stop being such a racist, bigoted pig. Just because Justice Thomas doesn’t meet your (and most libs) idea of what an African-American should be(beholden to the new Massa-the Demonrat party) does not give you the right to utter such garbage. Secondly, you are not worthy to serve as the wiping device for Justice Thomas’ gluteal cleft. Ted – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Not a peep out of Thomas this time, not a peep out of him last time. Every other justice is in the fray, peppering both sides with questions. Thomas, of course, is the kind of Associate Justice Dubya Dumb likes…he’s got his eyes, ears and mouth shut. — Harry Krause We ought to make the pie higher. -GW Bush

Response:

Peggie, Ouch, I have never seen Harry get to you like this.  The thing that amazes me about this is how biased everyone sees the issues, based upon their party affiliations, including Chuck Gould who normally tries to avoid off topic wars. I do have to admit that I am the only person who is really completely unbiased, and I know Bush should win.  ;) — Jim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Not a peep out of Thomas this time, not a peep out of him last time. Every other justice is in the fray, peppering both sides with questions. Thomas, of course, is the kind of Associate Justice Dubya Dumb likes…he’s got his eyes, ears and mouth shut. Or perhaps he’s got his eyes and ears open open, but keeping his mouth shut…Unlike Harry, whose mouth is the only thing he keeps open.

Response:

I obviously have too much time on my hands these days…’cuz I never got into off topic discussions before either! Peggie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Peggie, Ouch, I have never seen Harry get to you like this.  The thing that amazes me about this is how biased everyone sees the issues, based upon their party affiliations, including Chuck Gould who normally tries to avoid off topic wars. I do have to admit that I am the only person who is really completely unbiased, and I know Bush should win.  ;) — Jim Not a peep out of Thomas this time, not a peep out of him last time. Every other justice is in the fray, peppering both sides with questions. Thomas, of course, is the kind of Associate Justice Dubya Dumb likes…he’s got his eyes, ears and mouth shut. Or perhaps he’s got his eyes and ears open open, but keeping his mouth shut…Unlike Harry, whose mouth is the only thing he keeps open.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I obviously have too much time on my hands these days…’cuz I never got into off topic discussions before either! Peggie Peggie, Ouch, I have never seen Harry get to you like this.  The thing that amazes me about this is how biased everyone sees the issues, based upon their party affiliations, including Chuck Gould who normally tries to avoid off topic wars. I do have to admit that I am the only person who is really completely unbiased, and I know Bush should win.  ;) — Jim Not a peep out of Thomas this time, not a peep out of him last time. Every other justice is in the fray, peppering both sides with questions. Thomas, of course, is the kind of Associate Justice Dubya Dumb likes…he’s got his eyes, ears and mouth shut. Or perhaps he’s got his eyes and ears open open, but keeping his mouth shut…Unlike Harry, whose mouth is the only thing he keeps open.

What a delight to be insulted by the rec.boats Queen of Head. — Harry Krause We’ll let our friends be the peacekeepers and the great country called America will be the pacemakers. -GW Bush

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <SNIP That’s why GWB works out in the gym every day.  If it comes down to it, he’s ready to kick some Gore booty. BillS Are you kidding? Dubya Dumb is a short little twerp and because of his years of drug and booze abuse, his reflexes are shot, too. He does twitch nicely. — Harry Krause The short wirey guys are the ones you gotta watch out for.  They get in close because you’re overconfident and the next thing you know they’re punching you in the kidneys and head buttin’ your sternum.  When you try to grab em they’ll dart between you legs, kick you behind the knee and you’re down before you know it. Gore is too big and slow with one eye always on the camera while he’s thinking to himself;  "did you guys get the shot?  Is this a cool pose or what?"  It would be like Jackie Chan against Steven Segal. BillS

I was thinking more along the lines of Sugar Ray Leonard versus Lennox Lewis. — Harry Krause This is still a dangerous world. It’s a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mential losses. -GW Bush

Response:

Dubya Dumb is a short little twerp and because of his years

of drug and booze abuse, his reflexes are shot, too. He does twitch nicely.<< — Lu Powell Maybe he has Benign Essential Tremor.  It’s harmless, and doesn’t progress into anything serious.

Response:

<SNIP That’s why GWB works out in the gym every day.  If it comes down to it, he’s ready to kick some Gore booty. BillS Are you kidding? Dubya Dumb is a short little twerp and because of his years of drug and booze abuse, his reflexes are shot, too. He does twitch nicely. — Harry Krause

The short wirey guys are the ones you gotta watch out for.  They get in close because you’re overconfident and the next thing you know they’re punching you in the kidneys and head buttin’ your sternum.  When you try to grab em they’ll dart between you legs, kick you behind the knee and you’re down before you know it. Gore is too big and slow with one eye always on the camera while he’s thinking to himself;  "did you guys get the shot?  Is this a cool pose or what?"  It would be like Jackie Chan against Steven Segal. BillS —

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Nothing wrong with responding to a troll with another troll is there?<< — Steve If only they would go off together and beat each other to death and leave the rest of us alone. You republithugs are really into violence… That’s why GWB works out in the gym every day.  If it comes down to it, he’s ready to kick some Gore booty. BillS

Are you kidding? Dubya Dumb is a short little twerp and because of his years of drug and booze abuse, his reflexes are shot, too. He does twitch nicely. — Harry Krause When I was coming up, it was a dangerous world, and you knew exactly who they were, he said. It was us vs. them, and it was clear who them was. Today, we are not so sure who the they are, but we know they’re there. -GW Bush

Response:

Poor Hairy. Must be terribly frustrating, being perfect in such an imperfect world…. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Nothing wrong with responding to a troll with another troll is there?<< — Steve If only they would go off together and beat each other to death and leave the rest of us alone. You republithugs are really into violence… That’s why GWB works out in the gym every day.  If it comes down to it, he’s ready to kick some Gore booty. BillS

Are you kidding? Dubya Dumb is a short little twerp and because of his years of drug and booze abuse, his reflexes are shot, too. He does twitch nicely. — Harry Krause When I was coming up, it was a dangerous world, and you knew exactly who they were, he said. It was us vs. them, and it was clear who them was. Today, we are not so sure who the they are, but we know they’re there. -GW Bush

Response:

Nothing wrong with responding to a troll with another troll is there?<< — Steve If only they would go off together and beat each other to death and leave the rest of us alone. You republithugs are really into violence…

That’s why GWB works out in the gym every day.  If it comes down to it, he’s ready to kick some Gore booty. BillS —

Response:

I obviously have too much time on my hands these days…’cuz I never got

into off topic discussions before either! << — Peggie Obviously your boat is winterized.  That makes all of us a little crazy.

Response:

Nope…I haven’t winterized but once in 15 years. Had the boat out on Saturday, in fact. However, I am about to be boatless for the first time in at least 15 years…I’ve accepted an offer on her. Saturday was actually the sea trial…survey is scheduled for Wednesday. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I obviously have too much time on my hands these days…’cuz I never got into off topic discussions before either! << — Peggie Obviously your boat is winterized.  That makes all of us a little crazy.

Response:

I am about to be boatless for the first time in at least 15 years.<< —

Peggie OK, then that’s what’s making you crazy, not winterizing!

Response:

I am about to be boatless for the first time in at least 15 years.<< — Peggie OK, then that’s what’s making you crazy, not winterizing!

No…I just haven’t quite figured out what to do with myself, now that I don’t have to work 14 hours a day.

Response:

No…I just haven’t quite figured out what to do with myself, now that I don’t have to work 14 hours a day. …buy a boat?

I HAVE a boat…at least until the sale closes. A friend at work boat a repo at auction, and had a great deal of fun getting it back into good condition.

Peter, I spent the last 4 years turning a boat I bought in non-running and unihabitable condition into the boat you now see on her website. In fact, when he was done, he was sort of bored — their wasn’t enough to do.

Which is at least one of the reasons I’ve sold it. He sold it, and is looking for another.

Imagine how bored he’d be if he he no longer goes to work every day either.   However, I’m just in transition…exploring opportunities. This too shall pass. Peggie http://www.solitairef32.homestead.com/

Response:

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – argggggggggggggggggggggg its so annoying Before you buy.

Response:

Phone the hospital!!!! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – argggggggggggggggggggggg its so annoying Before you buy.

Response:

argggggggggggggggggggggg its so annoying

Having been without your Zoloft for several days (why? It’s not advisable…) your body needs to become accustomed to it again. It is certainly not dangerous at all and will be temporary, may take a few days… Philip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Before you buy.

Response:

argggggggggggggggggggggg its so annoying

Frenchi, how many tablets did you take at the same time?  Call your doctor! Dot Before you buy.

Response:

argggggggggggggggggggggg its so annoying Before you buy.

Response:

Do yourself two favors, never take a friend’s medication and call your doc now! — TC3 Always take an emergency leisurely. Chinese Proverb – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – argggggggggggggggggggggg its so annoying Before you buy.

Response:

What do you mean – you took them together? Do you mean that you usually split your dosage up but instead took the full dosage? I don’t think and I hope that you did not mean that you took the Zoloft that you didn’t take for the few days. Well I am not an expert on this but I do take Zoloft and have been for about five years. I was told by my doctor that I could separate my dosage or take it all at once it was entirely up to me. I know that side effects for Zoloft have been documented up to 200mg and with that dosage you will experience more side effects. What you are describing is common side effects for people on that dosage. I am assuming that if you have not taken your Zoloft for a few days that your blood levels are very low and that is why you are experiencing side effects now. My Zoloft was just upped from 100 to 150mg and I experienced the same side effects you are describing for about a week. You should direct your question to Margrove as I am sure he will be able to give you a more accurate and reliable answer. Take care Zedexa – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – argggggggggggggggggggggg its so annoying Before you buy.

Response:

Question:

i am so fucking angry, restless, anxious and pissed off. i think this mood has to do with the fact that i havent been able to refill my meds because i had to switch insurance bullshit. anyway, i’m fucking pissed and i feel like ripping my fucking head off. i hate people. i hate myself for fearing people. okay , i’m done ranting. i think i’m gonna go…like…whatever *LiZ* staring…@aol.com http://welcome.to/mysleep

Response:

What meds did you change?  You are taking no meds? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

i am so fucking angry, restless, anxious and pissed off. i think this mood has to do with the fact that i havent been able to refill my meds because i had to switch insurance bullshit. anyway, i’m fucking pissed and i feel like ripping my fucking head off. i hate people. i hate myself for fearing people. okay , i’m done ranting. i think i’m gonna go…like…whatever *LiZ* staring…@aol.com http://welcome.to/mysleep

*************************************************** Grachman, The

Response:

On 26 Aug 1999 02:47:17 GMT, glass…@aol.communist (LiZ) wrote:

i am so fucking angry, restless, anxious and pissed off.

try saying this "GRRRR!"

i think this mood has to do with the fact that i havent been able to refill my meds because i had to switch insurance bullshit.

Bummer, are you going to be able to get them refilled soon, or at least start new meds?

anyway, i’m fucking pissed and i feel like ripping my fucking head off. i hate people. i hate myself for fearing people.

(( you shouldnt feel like that, its not your fault. the best you can do is work at getting better ya know?

okay , i’m done ranting. i think i’m gonna go…like…whatever *LiZ* staring…@aol.com http://welcome.to/mysleep

Nick Wilde nwilde at punkass dot com ————————- Get paid to surf the web AND chat on IRC http://members.xoom.com/nickwilde_/html/getpaid.html

Response:

From: glass…@aol.communist  (LiZ) i think this mood has to do with the fact that i havent been able to refill my meds because i had to switch insurance bullshit.

Liz, you’re probably right about the med thing…call your p-doc and explain that you’ve been off your meds and ask if s/he might be able to supply you with some sample packets to hold you over, tell them *exactly* how you are feeling…I bet they will come up with something! meanwhile double up on the Xanax! Pam

Response:

Sounds like my worst nightmare. I can relate to that a little bit. I missed one Effexor dose and the next day I was like a frikken junky walking into the pharmacy, shaking and extremely pale looking, with my script. If I had to take another day of that I would have been close to voluntary lock-up. Hope ya get them soon babe. For the time being just sit somewhere quiet, close your eyes and think of the number 1 over and over again Or as Pam says numb your head with Bzo’s. Personally the latter seems like a much more attractive option — Russ "Better living through Chemistry" MzPami <mzp…@aol.com

wrote in message

news:19990826175744.28280.00000029@ng-fl1.aol.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

From: glass…@aol.communist  (LiZ) i think this mood has to do with the fact that i havent been able to

refill

my meds because i had to switch insurance bullshit. Liz, you’re probably right about the med thing…call your p-doc and

explain

that you’ve been off your meds and ask if s/he might be able to supply you

with

some sample packets to hold you over, tell them *exactly* how you are feeling…I bet they will come up with something! meanwhile double up on the Xanax! Pam

Response:

Hi Liz

i am so fucking angry, restless, anxious and pissed off.

Congratulations. Me too.

i think this mood has to do with the fact that i havent been able to

refill my

meds because i had to switch insurance bullshit. anyway, i’m fucking pissed and i feel like ripping my fucking head off.

Don’t do it. Maybe you have a nice head.

i hate people.

I don’t hate (all) people: they hate me.

i hate myself for fearing people.

Same here… — Ciao! |  /| | / |ark  ../   /os FIDO 2:284/5.7 E-mail mccm….@hccnet.nl URL http://home.hccnet.nl/mccm.vos ICQ 326628 (PGP key available)

Response:

Question:

Though I am nearly having a panic attack just –reading– these posts, it is extremely comforting to know I am not the "only" one !  mc

Response:

I forgot to mention something else that helps me with intrusions at work. I keep a white noise box, it doesn’t drown out everything, but it actually works quite well. They sell small ones that have like five sound effects (rain, ocean, white noise, babbling brook and rainforest.) Just a thought, if you can’t alleviate the intrusions, cover them up. It’s kind of like when your face breaks out.  There is no stopping the problem, but if you are like me, you cover that right up : ) Regards, Julie —

Response:

brownee – I have a quick question about your attempt at Effexor.  For the first 22 years that I had this disorder I came as close as any of my pdocs had seen to a unipolar manic — no sustained depressions, when I came off the manias (which were acute and severe) I went back to normal.  Then 3.5 years ago I had a triple whammy stress within one week right after a mania, and went into my first depression.  After 2 years of the depression, when I still showed no sign of coming out of it I finally talked my conservative pdoc into effexor. We ramped up so slowly I could scream, taking 6 months to get up to a therapeutic dosage.  But then it worked, and I never got manic (still on the Effexor).  Now, many moons later, I am finally getting off the effexor. How long did your pdoc take to bring you up to full speed, and do you think that going manic was the effexor or could it have been how quickly you were put on it?  Sympathetically, -Gandalf Souls are like athletes that need opponents worthy of them if they are to be tried and extended and pushed to the full use of their powers, and rewarded according to their capacity. (Thomas Merton) |I’ve tried Effexor and it has been the most effective AD I’ve ever |taken, so much so that it pushed me into the first purely manic episode |I’d ever had after decades of mixed episodes. But it too made that |horrible noise in my head, so now I’m trying Wellbutrin. | |brownee

Response:

My pdoc had me increase by 37.5 mg every 3 days until I was up to 300 mg. Starting it had some of the worst side effects of any medication I’ve ever had, but stopping it, at the same rate, was even worse. I had terrible nausea whenever I was even late with a dose, but at least that reminded me to take it. Cutting down I just had to live through the nausea. I’d been on only Prozac since 91 because I’d only been to idiots since then until I crashed big-time in December and got in to see a pdoc with a clue. Even when I spent 4 months in bed a few years ago, the doctors just told me to keep taking my Prozac and I’d be ok. So my experience about 6 weeks ago of my first purely manic episode was such a shock to my system after so many years (40+) of unrelenting depression relieved only by mixed episodes. I really couldn’t say with such limited experience on various ADs just what it was that threw me into mania. Seems like taking 6 months to get to a therapeutic dose isn’t any smarter than going too fast. I was in such bad shape that I wasn’t eating at all and was in danger of death from the kind of heart failure that anorexics die of, so the pdoc needed to do whatever it took to snap me out of it. brownee – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – brownee – I have a quick question about your attempt at Effexor.  For the first 22 years that I had this disorder I came as close as any of my pdocs had seen to a unipolar manic — no sustained depressions, when I came off the manias (which were acute and severe) I went back to normal.  Then 3.5 years ago I had a triple whammy stress within one week right after a mania, and went into my first depression.  After 2 years of the depression, when I still showed no sign of coming out of it I finally talked my conservative pdoc into effexor. We ramped up so slowly I could scream, taking 6 months to get up to a therapeutic dosage.  But then it worked, and I never got manic (still on the Effexor).  Now, many moons later, I am finally getting off the effexor. How long did your pdoc take to bring you up to full speed, and do you think that going manic was the effexor or could it have been how quickly you were put on it?  Sympathetically, -Gandalf Souls are like athletes that need opponents worthy of them if they are to be tried and extended and pushed to the full use of their powers, and rewarded according to their capacity. (Thomas Merton) |I’ve tried Effexor and it has been the most effective AD I’ve ever |taken, so much so that it pushed me into the first purely manic episode |I’d ever had after decades of mixed episodes. But it too made that |horrible noise in my head, so now I’m trying Wellbutrin. | |brownee

Response:

When my meds are not working that is when the "intrusions" are most annoying to me.  It is one of the ways that I know that it is time for another trip to the pdoc.  I could kill my hubby when he eats an apple

Then I must need a lot of trips to the pdoc, cause my meds never work But we’ll see if Neurontin works, also the psych (therp) I started seeing… ..always, Treacha ..as the twig bends…so the tree grows…

bw

Response:

brownee – I have a quick question about your attempt at Effexor.  For the first 22 years

Hi Brownee and Gandalf, My motto is "Start low and go SLOW!!! That way effects can be judiciously monitored. Peace, Reach beyond your grasp!

Response:

My motto is "Start low and go SLOW!!! HEAR, HEAR! With Effexor, it is especially important.  I went into a manic state you would have to have seen to believe when I was put on a huge dose of it.  Besides, that should be the rule for all meds.  IMHO

Amen! All pdocs should learn that on their very first day of residency. Also most meds require them to be tapered off — not stopping them cold turkey. Slowly on — slowly off. Your friend on the rollercoaster from hell, Shawn

Best regards from, James

Response:

<Posted and Mailed to Brownee [snipped] Kids shrieking and bass sounds are on my pet peeve list too. I’ve wondered though just what it is. When I complain about things like that to "normals" they just give me a disgusted look like can’t you come up with something more important to complain about and say everybody resents unwanted noise. But does the unwanted noise feel like physical assault, which is exactly what it feels like to me, to the "normals"? A minor inconvenience to others is acoustic "rape" to me. Thus I prefer to be online early in the morning before the "rapists" awaken. Thanks for using physical assault verbiage too. I’ve likened it to rape too but been told to chill. A relative tells me to "tune it out" while making tuning motions over her ears. Would she be telling me to tune out rape too?

If they don’t walk in our shoes, they can’t possibly understand or relate. [snipped] I no longer recommend regular Effexor now that the extended release (XR) formulation has come out. Originally regular Effexor was prescribed twice per day for me. I went into URC as the med came into my system and then departed — this was repeated twice per day. Once I realized what was happening, I took my total daily prescribed dose, divided it into 4 equal portions, and took it QID. My URC problem was solved immediately! Now I take Effexor XR BID with no cycling whatsoever. You might have a similar positive experience with Effexor XR. My pdoc just doesn’t give me any extended release anything, even though I tell him I can’t keep track of time very well these days. Right now I’m on regular Wellbutrin, which he wrote on the prescription to be taken 3X daily, at least 6 hours apart. How does he expect me to be able to do that when I can’t keep track of time, which I’d reminded him of minutes before? I’ve been on it for 2 weeks and haven’t made the third dose once yet.

Does your watch have an alarm function on it that you can set to remind you to take your meds? If not you should be able to buy an inexpensive digital travel alarm that would do the job. Is the XR more expensive? (HMO-paid Rxs)

Yes. But percentage wise not that much more — particularly considering the benefits you receive. I guess that’s why they’re asking what time of day I get manic and how long it lasts but I just can’t keep track of time well enough to tell them.

How about recording your mood index (1-10) every 15 minutes? You will need an alarm to remember to write the value down. Also record when you take your meds. Plotting your mood index can show med-induced URC. The reason that I mentioned Remeron is that it also works with the same two essential neurotransmitters (norepinephrine and serotonin) — however this med’s mechanism is different from than of Effexor. Wellbutrin addresses a third neurotransmitter (dopamine). BTW the SSRIs don’t do much for me (other than sending me hypomanic). So I infer that my brain needs more stimulation from norepinephrine (think adrenaline for the brain). Other options to consider are mood stabilizer meds that affect GABA (Neurontin and Gabatril). I have no personal experience with Gabatril but I have had truly exceptional results from Neurontin. YBMV. In what way is Neurontin different from Depakote?

Oh, about the difference between a 1920 Ford Model "T" and a 1999 Ferrari. There is no comparison whatsoever. But Neurontin is a bit tricky to "drive". It is very powerful and you can spin out and "lose" control — particularly since most pdocs don’t have the faintest idea how to prescribe it.  My guesstimate is that if properly prescribed, Neurontin would be effective for around 50% of those trying it as monotherapy. With polytherapy the percentage should increase. BTW I’m in the process of updating my FAQ on Mood Stabilizers used in the US. I’m up to a dozen and still counting. I doubt if I will post it today since I’m getting rather tired — and the Lord knows I need my beauty sleep. <G Depakote is the HMOs standard drug for mania, other drugs have to be justified by bad side-effects or lack of effectiveness.

<SIGH!!! Penny wise and pound foolish as always. I’ve only been on Depakote for 6 weeks, too soon to tell.

I suggest giving Depakote 2 months just to be sure. You should be in the established "therapeutic" range for 2 consecutive blood tests (usually a week apart). Your liver function should also be checked to make sure its not being adversely affected. Have you lost any hair or gained any weight? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – BTW I think it was you that asked something about how certain meds can induce URC? I was trying to respond when something screwed up and I lost several posts. I may take some time off and try to formulate and solve the differential equations to demonstrate the effect of a short half life drug has on stability. It shouldn’t be too hard — assuming of course I can shift my brain into high gear. An interesting challenge. I haven’t done any math for more than ten years. BTW I even use a calculator to do basic arithmetic. <Sigh! Yes, it was me. I know you’ve been not feeling well these last few days, James, so I was hoping someone else would post something pointing me to some of your old posts or a Web page or something. This is the first time in my life I’ve been under active pdoc care during a crash-and-burn (I usually just go into total isolation and wait for it to be over) so the frequent changing of meds and constant questioning (what time of day do you start to get manic? how long does it last? etc.) are really disconcerting. I don’t know if what I’m going through now is what I do anyway, just haven’t been dwelling on it, or because of all the meds, or what. To reduce the confusion and to hopefully introduce some measure of order in the midst of chaos, I NEVER like to make more than one med or dosage change at a time. I then wait for a sufficient time and see what transpires. Now obviously in a hospital situation more aggressive measures can (and should) be taken. But what’s sufficient time?

It all depends on several factors (is the med metabolized?, if so how rapidly?, what is the removal half life?, and how long does it take for the brain require for it to become sensitized to the med?). It is the latter factor which gives rise to the greatest uncertainty. Because some people’s brains apparently never become sensitized and so the med is not effective for them. Others become desensitized and a med switch is necessary. I have no idea whether the meds I’m now on (Depakote and Wellbutrin) are doing enough of what they’re supposed to be doing, just that they aren’t having sufficiently bad side effects that I need to change. Up until this crash, I had been a slow cycler, but this time, events had been set in motion before the crash that are carrying me along in such a way that the crash would have been different anyway. (For example, this is the first time I’ve had disability insurance and so the first time I’ve had to deal with a bureaucracy during what is usually my isolation/recovery period.) So between just being totally screwed over by the severity of the depressive crash in December and these other influences, I’m having a very hard time judging anything.

Bureaucratic incompetencies are enough to drive a well person insane!!! James, I join the rest of those asking you to take care of yourself. Thank you! However as long as I don’t move, I seem to be doing OK. But I am intending additional bed rest. Then I’ll have to figure out some way of posting binary graphical files that people could decode. Or maybe I should just create a Web site? Any suggestions from anyone as to which is the best way to go? I guess creating a Web site would provide greater access — but since I have never done any HTML programming, it would be just one more thing for me to learn. I can’t afford to buy any of these specialized programs that aid in Web page creation. Besides I run 16-bit Windows. HTML is a snap. I had my first web page up within a couple of days of starting. Haven’t you done computer-type stuff before?

Sure, I’ve had experience with a couple dozen or so programming languages and operating systems. I presume there are tutorial Web pages about HTML. Do you have any URLs to recommend? My biggest mental block was that HTML is so crude it was beneath my dignity to learn. You don’t want anything very cutesy anyway, just a straightforward presentation of the facts. That’s assuming, of course, that you’re in a mental state to learn anything right now. You whip out these facts so readily that I assume you’re currently in good mental shape, just not physical, so maybe that was a wrong assumption. Hope you’re doing better today.

Mentally I’m doing OK. I just don’t want to bite off more than I can comfortably chew time wise. The number of NG posts seem to have increased of late. I hate to let them go while I’m dinking around with DEs and HTML. brownee

Best wishes from, James

Response:

[snipped] Kids shrieking and bass sounds are on my pet peeve list too. I’ve wondered though just what it is. When I complain about things like that to "normals" they just give me a disgusted look like can’t you come up with something more important to complain about and say everybody resents unwanted noise. But does the unwanted noise feel like physical assault, which is exactly what it feels like to me, to the "normals"? A minor inconvenience to others is acoustic "rape" to me. Thus I prefer to be online early in the morning before the "rapists" awaken.

Thanks for using physical assault verbage too. I’ve likened it to rape too but been told to chill. A relative tells me to "tune it out" while making tuning motions over her ears. Would she be telling me to tune out rape too? [snipped] I no longer recommend regular Effexor now that the extended release (XR) formulation has come out. Originally regular Effexor was prescribed twice per day for me. I went into URC as the med came into my system and then departed — this was repeated twice per day. Once I realized what was happening, I took my total daily prescribed dose, divided it into 4 equal portions, and took it QID. My URC problem was solved immediately! Now I take Effexor XR BID with no cycling whatsoever. You might have a similar positive experience with Effexor XR.

My pdoc just doesn’t give me any extended release anything, even though I tell him I can’t keep track of time very well these days. Right now I’m on regular Wellbutrin, which he wrote on the prescription to be taken 3xdaily, at least 6 hours apart. How does he expect me to be able to do that when I can’t keep track of time, which I’d reminded him of minutes before? I’ve been on it for 2 weeks and haven’t made the third dose once yet. Is the XR more expensive? (HMO-paid rx’s) I guess that’s why they’re asking what time of day I get manic and how long it lasts but I just can’t keep track of time well enough to tell them. The reason that I mentioned Remeron is that it also works with the same two essential neurotransmitters (norepinephrine and serotonin) — however this med’s mechanism is different from than of Effexor. Wellbutrin addresses a third neurotransmitter (dopamine). BTW the SSRIs don’t do much for me (other than sending me hypomanic). So I infer that my brain needs more stimulation from norepinephrine (think adrenaline for the brain). Other options to consider are mood stabilizer meds that affect GABA (Neurontin and Gabatril). I have no personal experience with Gabatril but I have had truly exceptional results from Neurontin. YBMV.

In what way is Neurontin different from Depakote? Depakote is the HMO’s standard drug for mania, other drugs have to be justified by bad side-effects or lack of effectiveness. I’ve only been on Depakote for 6 weeks, too soon to tell. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – BTW I think it was you that asked something about how certain meds can induce URC? I was trying to respond when something screwed up and I lost several posts. I may take some time off and try to formulate and solve the differential equations to demonstrate the effect of a short half life drug has on stability. It shouldn’t be too hard — assuming of course I can shift my brain into high gear. An interesting challenge. I haven’t done any math for more than ten years. BTW I even use a calculator to do basic arithmetic. <Sigh! Yes, it was me. I know you’ve been not feeling well these last few days, James, so I was hoping someone else would post something pointing me to some of your old posts or a Web page or something. This is the first time in my life I’ve been under active pdoc care during a crash-and-burn (I usually just go into total isolation and wait for it to be over) so the frequent changing of meds and constant questioning (what time of day do you start to get manic? how long does it last? etc.) are really disconcerting. I don’t know if what I’m going through now is what I do anyway, just haven’t been dwelling on it, or because of all the meds, or what. To reduce the confusion and to hopefully introduce some measure of order in the midst of chaos, I NEVER like to make more than one med or dosage change at a time. I then wait for a sufficient time and see what transpires. Now obviously in a hospital situation more aggressive measures can (and should) be taken.

But what’s sufficient time? I have no idea whether the meds I’m now on (Depakote and Wellbutrin) are doing enough of what they’re supposed to be doing, just that they aren’t having sufficiently bad side-effects that I need to change. Up until this crash, I had been a slow cycler, but this time, events had been set in motion before the crash that are carrying me along in such a way that the crash would have been different anyway. (For example, this is the first time I’ve had disability insurance and so the first time I’ve had to deal with a bureaucracy during what is usually my isolation/recovery period.) So between just being totally screwed over by the severity of the depressive crash in December and these other influences, I’m having a very hard time judging anything. James, I join the rest of those asking you to take care of yourself. Thank you! However as long as I don’t move, I seem to be doing OK. But I am intending additional bed rest. Then I’ll have to figure out some way of posting binary graphical files that people could decode. Or maybe I should just create a Web site? Any suggestions from anyone as to which is the best way to go? I guess creating a Web site would provide greater access — but since I have never done any HTML programming, it would be just one more thing for me to learn. I can’t afford to buy any of these specialized programs that aid in Web page creation. Besides I run 16-bit Windows.

HTML is a snap. I had my first web page up within a couple of days of starting. Haven’t you done computer-type stuff before? My biggest mental block was that HTML is so crude it was beneath my dignity to learn. You don’t want anything very cutesy anyway, just a straightforward presentation of the facts. That’s assuming, of course, that you’re in a mental state to learn anything right now. You whip out these facts so readily that I assume you’re currently in good mental shape, just not physical, so maybe that was a wrong assumption. Hope you’re doing better today. brownee Best regards from, James

brownee

Response:

<Posted and Mailed to Brownee – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – After I talked with my pdoc yesterday, I realized what my problem must be. It’s not a complete breakthru, I must have known it before.  A real breakthru would be to overcome these — intrusions. <snipped To me, the worst is the thwump-thwump-thwump of a basketball. On a good day I can drown it out making my own noise inside but on a bad day I’m in bed in a fetal position with hands over my head sobbing. All those noises feel like physical assaults, not just sound. A thump, thump bass sound does that to me. I don’t mind basketball sounds. Perhaps having played it may have some bearing. Another sound that grates on my nerves is the shrieks of young girls playing. They are just having fun. I assure you that it is NO FUN for me!!! Kids shrieking and bass sounds are on my pet peeve list too. I’ve wondered though just what it is. When I complain about things like that to "normals" they just give me a disgusted look like can’t you come up with something more important to complain about and say everybody resents unwanted noise. But does the unwanted noise feel like physical assault, which is exactly what it feels like to me, to the "normals"?

A minor inconvenience to others is acoustic "rape" to me. Thus I prefer to be online early in the morning before the "rapists" awaken. My pdoc says SSRIs help this problem but we haven’t been able to find one that doesn’t give me a rare side-effect — a staticky noise in my brain, like electricity going off in there. Makes taking all the other noises even harder. So maybe my pdoc isn’t right about this one. Just a thought: Have you ever tried Effexor XR or Remeron? No guarantees! Also there is the new antidepressant Celexa that reputedly has fewer adverse side effects than any other SSRI. I’ve tried Effexor and it has been the most effective AD I’ve ever taken, so much so that it pushed me into the first purely manic episode I’d ever had after decades of mixed episodes. But it too made that horrible noise in my head, so now I’m trying Wellbutrin.

I no longer recommend regular Effexor now that the extended release (XR) formulation has come out. Originally regular Effexor was prescribed twice per day for me. I went into URC as the med came into my system and then departed — this was repeated twice per day. Once I realized what was happening, I took my total daily prescribed dose, divided it into 4 equal portions, and took it QID. My URC problem was solved immediately! Now I take Effexor XR BID with no cycling whatsoever. You might have a similar positive experience with Effexor XR. The reason that I mentioned Remeron is that it also works with the same two essential neurotransmitters (norepinephrine and serotonin) — however this med’s mechanism is different from than of Effexor. Wellbutrin addresses a third neurotransmitter (dopamine). BTW the SSRIs don’t do much for me (other than sending me hypomanic). So I infer that my brain needs more stimulation from norepinephrine (think adrenaline for the brain). Other options to consider are mood stabilizer meds that affect GABA (Neurontin and Gabatril). I have no personal experience with Gabatril but I have had truly exceptional results from Neurontin. YBMV. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – BTW I think it was you that asked something about how certain meds can induce URC? I was trying to respond when something screwed up and I lost several posts. I may take some time off and try to formulate and solve the differential equations to demonstrate the effect of a short half life drug has on stability. It shouldn’t be too hard — assuming of course I can shift my brain into high gear. An interesting challenge. I haven’t done any math for more than ten years. BTW I even use a calculator to do basic arithmetic. <Sigh! Yes, it was me. I know you’ve been not feeling well these last few days, James, so I was hoping someone else would post something pointing me to some of your old posts or a Web page or something. This is the first time in my life I’ve been under active pdoc care during a crash-and-burn (I usually just go into total isolation and wait for it to be over) so the frequent changing of meds and constant questioning (what time of day do you start to get manic? how long does it last? etc.) are really disconcerting. I don’t know if what I’m going through now is what I do anyway, just haven’t been dwelling on it, or because of all the meds, or what.

To reduce the confusion and to hopefully introduce some measure of order in the midst of chaos, I NEVER like to make more than one med or dosage change at a time. I then wait for a sufficient time and see what transpires. Now obviously in a hospital situation more aggressive measures can (and should) be taken. James, I join the rest of those asking you to take care of yourself.

Thank you! However as long as I don’t move, I seem to be doing OK. But I am intending additional bed rest. Then I’ll have to figure out some way of posting binary graphical files that people could decode. Or maybe I should just create a Web site?

Any suggestions from anyone as to which is the best way to go? I guess creating a Web site would provide greater access — but since I have never done any HTML programming, it would be just one more thing for me to learn. I can’t afford to buy any of these specialized programs that aid in Web page creation. Besides I run 16-bit Windows. brownee

Best regards from, James

Response:

When my meds are not working that is when the "intrusions" are most annoying to me.  It is one of the ways that I know that it is time for another trip to the pdoc.  I could kill my hubby when he eats an apple ..always, Treacha ..as the twig bends…so the tree grows…

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <Posted and Mailed to Brownee After I talked with my pdoc yesterday, I realized what my problem must be. It’s not a complete breakthru, I must have known it before.  A real breakthru would be to overcome these — intrusions. <snipped To me, the worst is the thwump-thwump-thwump of a basketball. On a good day I can drown it out making my own noise inside but on a bad day I’m in bed in a fetal position with hands over my head sobbing. All those noises feel like physical assaults, not just sound. A thump, thump bass sound does that to me. I don’t mind basketball sounds. Perhaps having played it may have some bearing. Another sound that grates on my nerves is the shrikes of young girls playing. They are just having fun. I assure you that it is NO FUN for me!!!

Kids shrieking and bass sounds are on my pet peeve list too. I’ve wondered though just what it is. When I complain about things like that to "normals" they just give me a disgusted look like can’t you come up with something more important to complain about and say everybody resents unwanted noise. But does the unwanted noise feel like physical assault, which is exactly what it feels like to me, to the "nromals"? My pdoc says SSRIs help this problem but we haven’t been able to find one that doesn’t give me a rare side-effect — a staticky noise in my brain, like electricity going off in there. Makes taking all the other noises even harder. So maybe my pdoc isn’t right about this one. Just a thought: Have you ever tried Effexor XR or Remeron? No guarantees! Also there is the new antidepressant Celexa that reputedly has fewer adverse side effects than any other SSRI.

I’ve tried Effexor and it has been the most effective AD I’ve ever taken, so much so that it pushed me into the first purely manic episode I’d ever had after decades of mixed episodes. But it too made that horrible noise in my head, so now I’m trying Wellbutrin. BTW I think it was you that asked something about how certain meds can induce URC? I was trying to respond when something screwed up and I lost several posts. I may take some time off and try to formulate and solve the differential equations to demonstrate the effect of a short half life drug has on stability. It shouldn’t be too hard — assuming of course I can shift my brain into high gear. An interesting challenge. I haven’t done any math for more than ten years. BTW I even use a calculator to do basic arithmetic. <Sigh!

Yes, it was me. I know you’ve been not feeling well these last few days, James, so I was hoping someone else would post something pointing me to some of your old posts or a webpage or something. This is the first time in my life I’ve been under active pdoc care during a crash-and-burn (I usually just go into total isolation and wait for it to be over) so the frequent changing of meds and constant questioning (what time of day do you start to get manic? how long does it last? etc) are really disconcerting. I don’t know if what I’m going through now is what I do anyway, just haven’t been dwelling on it, or because of all the meds, or what. James, I join the rest of those asking you to take care of yourself. Then I’ll have to figure out some way of posting binary graphical files that people could decode. Or maybe I should just create a Web site? brownee Best regards from, James

brownee

Response:

<snip That is tough, I can relate.  I get overwhelmed by intrusions alot.  I need peace time.  Time by myself to rejuvenate or I am lost.

<snip me too. You are optimistic, I think, to think of these things as intrusions. I whine about "painful stimuli".  Also, as my dearest friends know…I am developing agorophobia as a coping mechanism.  Seriously, not afraid to leave the house, just not willing to pay the price much anymore. Kicker, isn’t it, when even good times are stressors?! Understand completely (?), regards from julie

Response:

<Posted and Mailed to Brownee After I talked with my pdoc yesterday, I realized what my problem must be. It’s not a complete breakthru, I must have known it before.  A real breakthru would be to overcome these — intrusions. <snipped To me, the worst is the thwump-thwump-thwump of a basketball. On a good day I can drown it out making my own noise inside but on a bad day I’m in bed in a fetal position with hands over my head sobbing. All those noises feel like physical assaults, not just sound.

A thump, thump bass sound does that to me. I don’t mind basketball sounds. Perhaps having played it may have some bearing. Another sound that grates on my nerves is the shrikes of young girls playing. They are just having fun. I assure you that it is NO FUN for me!!! My pdoc says SSRIs help this problem but we haven’t been able to find one that doesn’t give me a rare side-effect — a staticky noise in my brain, like electricity going off in there. Makes taking all the other noises even harder. So maybe my pdoc isn’t right about this one.

Just a thought: Have you ever tried Effexor XR or Remeron? No guarantees! Also there is the new antidepressant Celexa that reputedly has fewer adverse side effects than any other SSRI. BTW I think it was you that asked something about how certain meds can induce URC? I was trying to respond when something screwed up and I lost several posts. I may take some time off and try to formulate and solve the differential equations to demonstrate the effect of a short half life drug has on stability. It shouldn’t be too hard — assuming of course I can shift my brain into high gear. An interesting challenge. I haven’t done any math for more than ten years. BTW I even use a calculator to do basic arithmetic. <Sigh! Then I’ll have to figure out some way of posting binary graphical files that people could decode. Or maybe I should just create a Web site? brownee

Best regards from, James

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A perfect illustration between the bipolar and the schizophrenic was learned in my psych rotation… Bipolar is a mood disorder classification(like yhu don’t know that one) Depression is depression, mania is mania.  Really reallyhappy…really really said – DUH…right? Scizophrenia is a thought disorder.   My schz pt scored higher on the Beck depression score than I did. No depressive symtpoms noted with the exception of the flat affect and lethargic gait, most likely due to meds.  However, when asked to write a letter to his mom, he wrote the whole letter and then starting back from the beginning – added the punctuation!  THOOUGHT Disorder. Bipolar – as I am sure you are aware – can have psychotic features, and especially drug induced which is very commen in non compliant pts who self medicate. My mother too, was diagnosed scz in the 60’s when psychiatric research was still so young….but as i look back now, and replay the pattern of her life.  She was Bipolar with drug indced psychosis, noncompliant, self medicater. Just a thought. Elaine A perfect illustration between the bipolar and the schizophrenic was learned in my psych rotation… Bipolar – as I am sure you are aware – can have psychotic features, and especially drug induced which is very commen in non compliant pts who self medicate.

I think that may be the case, but he doesn’t self medicate anymore.  I think he just got fried as a guinea pig in the institutions.  He was completely at their mercy.  All I remember is when he got out… in a moment of clarity, he remarked "I have walked through hell." I don’t know if he is bipolar and severely burned from treatment, or a true sz. May none of us know the hell he saw. He went to NY and lived the streets for three years after that.  He went to California.  When he finally returned to Miami he was so far gone. Those moments of clarity are fewer than ever.  I think part of the delusions are armor for protection.  I will never know. My mother too, was diagnosed scz in the 60’s when psychiatric research was still so young….but as i look back now, and replay the pattern of her life.  She was Bipolar with drug indced psychosis, noncompliant, self medicater.

In the early days he would use alcohol but that ended after his hospitalizations to the best of my knowledge. Just a thought.

Thanks for your input Elaine. Julie —

Response:

My father is a diagnosed schizophrenic.  Interesting.  (I mentioned my father to my pdoc.  He doesn’t think I’m sz, but he has me on Risperdal, which is a typical sz med.)

My father is also a dx’d schizophrenic, although my doc believes that he is BP since my sister and I are BP.  I understand alot of people are misdiagnosed.  I must say that my father was not misdiagnosed.  He is a true schizophrenic.   This might explain the way I feel so sensitized to stimuli all around me. Hmmmmmmmmmm. Julie —

Response:

A perfect illustration between the bipolar and the schizophrenic was learned in my psych rotation… Bipolar is a mood disorder classification(like yhu don’t know that one) Depression is depression, mania is mania.  Really reallyhappy…really really said – DUH…right? Scizophrenia is a thought disorder.   My schz pt scored higher on the Beck depression score than I did. No depressive symtpoms noted with the exception of the flat affect and lethargic gait, most likely due to meds.  However, when asked to write a letter to his mom, he wrote the whole letter and then starting back from the beginning – added the punctuation!  THOOUGHT Disorder. Bipolar – as I am sure you are aware – can have psychotic features, and especially drug induced which is very commen in non compliant pts who self medicate. My mother too, was diagnosed scz in the 60’s when psychiatric research was still so young….but as i look back now, and replay the pattern of her life.  She was Bipolar with drug indced psychosis, noncompliant, self medicater. Just a thought. Elaine

Response:

<Posted and Mailed

                                                     <Snipped – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Many (most?) people just plain don’t care how much their actions may annoy others! My current Major Objection is the fact that I live in a low income housing project where it must the requirement for every vehicle to be equipped with kilowatt subwuffers continually blasting out rap at top volume. Even in my cave barricaded against all types of sounds, I am immersed, assaulted, awakened, and auditorily raped. This goes on for hours on end. At times I think I need to scream! I would — if I thought it would do any good whatsoever. Perhaps some relief may occur when the temperature will get hot enough to turn on the swamp cooler.

                                                <snipped James

When the thumping bass of my neighbors stereo is louder in my appartment than my own TV….I seriously consider introducing my neighbor to an ancient chinese addage that goes "please don’t hit my fist with your face."  Then add to that "rap" sh*t, the sounds of car alarm systems, screaming at 2am "THE VIPER IS ARMED". I hear what you are saying James. Ralph

Response:

I am in psych graduate school, and in one class we had a guest lecturer from the Health Science Center here in Denver.  He talked about experiments which they have done upon schizophrenics (sz) in which they expose the sz to repeated clicks next to their ears.  Normal controls eventually habituate to the sound, i.e. eventually their brains don’t even register the sound any more and it becomes background noise.  In contrast, sz never habituate, and the evoked potentials in their brains are just as "startled" looking after 15 minutes of continuous ear clicks.  So the poor sz is never able to tune the sound out. They have explored this finding and found that relatives of sz also share this phenomena — they don’t shut out the sound either — but somehow these healthier relatives are able to "multitask" and follow that sound as well as other stimuli.

My father is a diagnosed schizophrenic.  Interesting.  (I mentioned my father to my pdoc.  He doesn’t think I’m sz, but he has me on Risperdal, which is a typical sz med.) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -In addition there was evidence that within the family that the sz have a smaller brain region (I believe it was hippocampus but don’t quote me) than their relatives who were able to multitask.  So, in a bizarre way, conceivably this ability to handle multiple stimuli at once is an evolutionary advantage for most relatives in sz families, except for the unfortunates who have the disorder or a damaged hippocampus.  If you have a half-pint screening device and the ability to hear all of the radio stations at once that inability to hunker down and shut out all of the competing stimuli drives you crazy. -Gandalf There is a silence where hath been no sound There is a silence where no sound may be In the cold grave, under the deep deep sea. Thomas Hood (1799-1845)

bw

Response:

<Posted and Mailed – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – After I talked with my pdoc yesterday, I realized what my problem must be. It’s not a complete breakthru, I must have known it before.  A real breakthru would be to overcome these — intrusions. Intrusions. When people in the next cubicle talk loudly and laugh loudly and I can hear them over my earplugs and headphone music, they are intrusive. When I have to take a big whiff of somebody else’s microwave meal, although my cubicle is not very close to the microwave, it is intrusive. When I am in my house , with the windows shut, and I have to hear outside noises (dogs, cars, lawn mowers & blowers, etc.), they are intrusive. When I am trying to concentrate in a class or meeting, and people tap their pencils or play drums on the tables, or shuffle their feet or bounce their legs, or other audible and visible distractions, they are intrusive. I can think of many other examples of how people can be intrusive, even if they don’t mean to be (yeah, right!)  But that’s my problem.

Many (most?) people just plain don’t care how much their actions may annoy others! My current Major Objection is the fact that I live in a low income housing project where it must the requirement for every vehicle to be equipped with kilowatt subwuffers continually blasting out rap at top volume. Even in my cave barricaded against all types of sounds, I am immersed, assaulted, awakened, and auditorily raped. This goes on for hours on end. At times I think I need to scream! I would — if I thought it would do any good whatsoever. Perhaps some relief may occur when the temperature will get hot enough to turn on the swamp cooler. I thought about this ever since I told my pdoc about the Poe "The Fall of the House of Usher", where the man would be tormented by sounds and smells.  Could that be me?  (Who’d ever think a Poe tale to be therapeutic?  :)

I am even tormented by people grilling a steak a block away. I immediately feel like making new friends. Interests (as I posted) — I have several.  There are many things I want to do.  But people with their intrusions get in the way. Neurontin — I just started.  Hope it works.  (My lithium level was too low, but I had too many side effects.)  Zoloft and Risperdal — they continue.

If you are sensitive to Neurontin’s antidepressive effects, you may need to reduce or even totally eliminate Zoloft to prevent (hypo)mania from being induced. Be warned and be very careful how you take Neurontin. But whatever the meds, I have to somehow deal with the intrusion factor.

Short of a prefrontal lobotomy — I don’t know what to do either. I certainly wish I could turn my sensitivity setting down a bunch!!! Maybe this is a social phobia issue?  But I tried the social phob. NG before. Nobody would answer what I had to say.  (Too phobic, I guess.  <g ) Hope you-all answer.  Thanks. bw PS  The internet at work is down, so I’m going in late;  I am typing this from the public library.  (Which isn’t easy for me, with all the people here. Maybe I’m putting my nervous energy toward this message?)  So you can see that either this issue is important to me, or I’m an NG addict or something …

I don’t mind admitting that I’m a Net addict. I believe that some addictions are worth having. James

Response:

After I talked with my pdoc yesterday, I realized what my problem must be. It’s not a complete breakthru, I must have known it before.  A real breakthru would be to over come these — intrusions.

<snipped To me, the worst is the thwump-thwump-thwump of a basketball. On a good day I can drown it out making my own noise inside but on a bad day I’m in bed in a fetal position with hands over my head sobbing. All those noises feel like physical assaults, not just sound. My pdoc says SSRIs help this problem but we haven’t been able to find one that doesn’t give me a rare side-effect — a staticky noise in my brain, like electricity going off in there. Makes taking all the other noises even harder. So maybe my pdoc isn’t right about this one. brownee

Response:

I can usually handle the music at loud parties in the nieghbor hood – it is the screaming OVER the music that I just go ballistic over. And what about people you ride in the car with who take 10 minutes to find the perfect station, turn up the volumne and then start a conversation? Elaine

Response:

I am in psych graduate school, and in one class we had a guest lecturer from the Health Science Center here in Denver.  He talked about experiments which they have done upon schizophrenics (sz) in which they expose the sz to repeated clicks next to their ears.  Normal controls eventually habituate to the sound, i.e. eventually their brains don’t even register the sound any more and it becomes background noise.  In contrast, sz never habituate, and the evoked potentials in their brains are just as "startled" looking after 15 minutes of continuous ear clicks.  So the poor sz is never able to tune the sound out. They have explored this finding and found that relatives of sz also share this phenomena — they don’t shut out the sound either — but somehow these healthier relatives are able to "multitask" and follow that sound as well as other stimuli.  In addition there was evidence that within the family that the sz have a smaller brain region (I believe it was hippocampus but don’t quote me) than their relatives who were able to multitask.  So, in a bizarre way, conceivably this ability to handle multiple stimuli at once is an evolutionary advantage for most relatives in sz families, except for the unfortunates who have the disorder or a damaged hippocampus.  If you have a half-pint screening device and the ability to hear all of the radio stations at once that inability to hunker down and shut out all of the competing stimuli drives you crazy. -Gandalf There is a silence where hath been no sound There is a silence where no sound may be In the cold grave, under the deep deep sea. Thomas Hood (1799-1845)

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – After I talked with my pdoc yesterday, I realized what my problem must be. It’s not a complete breakthru, I must have known it before.  A real breakthru would be to over come these — intrusions. Intrusions. When people in the next cubicle talk loudly and laugh loudly and I can hear them over my earplugs and headphone music, they are intrusive. When I have to take a big whiff of somebody else’s microwave meal, although my cubicle is not very close to the microwave, it is intrusive. When I am in my house , with the windows shut, and I have to hear outside noises (dogs, cars, lawn mowers & blowers, etc), they are intrusive. When I am trying to concentrate in a class or meeting, and people tap their pencils or play drums on the tables, or shuffle their feet or bounce their legs, or other audible and visible distractions, they are intrusive.

Don’t forget the evil perfume addicts. I can think of many other examples of how people can be intrusive, even if they don’t mean to be (yeah, right!)  But that’s my problem. I thought about this ever since I told my pdoc about the Poe "The Fall of the House of Usher", where the man would be tormented by sounds and smells.  Could that be me?  (Who’d ever think a Poe tale to be therapeutic?  :) Interests (as I posted) — I have several.  There are many things I want to do.  But people with their intrusions get in the way.

That is tough, I can relate.  I get overwhelmed by intrusions alot.  I need peace time.  Time by myself to rejuvenate or I am lost. Neurontin — I just started.  Hope it works.  (My lithium level was to low, but I had too many side effects.)  Zoloft and Risperdal — they continue.

Neurontin here too.  Unfortunately it is a new drug for me so no advice here.  I hope it helps, especially with fewer side effects! But whatever the meds, I have to somehow deal with the intrusion factor. Maybe this is a social phobia issue?  But I tried the social phob. NG before. Nobody would answer what I had to say.  (Too phobic, I guess.  <g ) Hope you-all answer.  Thanks. bw PS  The internet at work is down, so I’m going in late;  I am typing this from the public library.  (Which isn’t easy for me, with all the people here.  Maybe I’m putting my nervous energy toward this message?)  So you can see that either this issue is important to me, or I’m an NG addict or something

Ditto… it is my equivalent to an interactive soap opera.   Normally I don’t respond to this many posts, but I have more free time and the Neurontin is making me happy! Good Luck! Julie —

Response:

After I talked with my pdoc yesterday, I realized what my problem must be. It’s not a complete breakthru, I must have known it before.  A real breakthru would be to over come these — intrusions. Intrusions. When people in the next cubicle talk loudly and laugh loudly and I can hear them over my earplugs and headphone music, they are intrusive. When I have to take a big whiff of somebody else’s microwave meal, although my cubicle is not very close to the microwave, it is intrusive. When I am in my house , with the windows shut, and I have to hear outside noises (dogs, cars, lawn mowers & blowers, etc), they are intrusive. When I am trying to concentrate in a class or meeting, and people tap their pencils or play drums on the tables, or shuffle their feet or bounce their legs, or other audible and visible distractions, they are intrusive. I can think of many other examples of how people can be intrusive, even if they don’t mean to be (yeah, right!)  But that’s my problem. I thought about this ever since I told my pdoc about the Poe "The Fall of the House of Usher", where the man would be tormented by sounds and smells.  Could that be me?  (Who’d ever think a Poe tale to be therapeutic?  :) Interests (as I posted) — I have several.  There are many things I want to do.  But people with their intrusions get in the way. Neurontin — I just started.  Hope it works.  (My lithium level was to low, but I had too many side effects.)  Zoloft and Risperdal — they continue. But whatever the meds, I have to somehow deal with the intrusion factor. Maybe this is a social phobia issue?  But I tried the social phob. NG before. Nobody would answer what I had to say.  (Too phobic, I guess.  <g ) Hope you-all answer.  Thanks. bw PS  The internet at work is down, so I’m going in late;  I am typing this from the public library.  (Which isn’t easy for me, with all the people here.  Maybe I’m putting my nervous energy toward this message?)  So you can see that either this issue is important to me, or I’m an NG addict or something …

Response:

Question:

x-no archive : yes Hi Cheryl – I am the OTHER Cheryl – Hi ASED! I haven’t been on the Board much lately, but I am the Old doll, the redhead, the former Binge eater – just didn’t want to confuse anyone – maybe one of us could change our name on the Board – what do you think ? I just don’t want anyone to be confused with two of us here !! With love and support to you all – Cheryl.

Response:

there is a new drug that was approved in this country (US) in July called Celexa.  my pdoc just told me about it because i was having bad side effects from effexor.  i’ve only been reading about it on the intenet…it’s still so new.  look it up under any search engine.  i can’t remember how it works but it is classified as an antidepressant. cheers, cheryl – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Has anyone heard of this medication?  Not sure if it is Selexa, or Xelexa, my doc said it is common in Europe, and is thinking of having me try it, as I can’t seem to increase my dose of Paxil over 10mg, for the bingeing, and depression, and he said it isn’t a therapeutic dose.  Just wondering if anyone ever heard of it, and what the experiences were with it. Suzy

Response:

Maybe you are thinking of "Zyprexa," or "Olanzapine," which is fairly new in the USA.  It is an antipsychotic which is being used sometimes to alleviate "delusional thinking" (body dysmorphia) and other aspects of EDs. –Connie   clixpix

Response:

Has anyone heard of this medication?  Not sure if it is Selexa, or Xelexa, my doc said it is common in Europe, and is thinking of having me try it, as I can’t seem to increase my dose of Paxil over 10mg, for the bingeing, and depression, and he said it isn’t a therapeutic dose.  Just wondering if anyone ever heard of it, and what the experiences were with it. Suzy

Response:

Question:

Thanks to everyone who responded.  It really does make me feel better to read such supportive comments.   No more AOL….. Thanks again! Peace, Dan

Response:

I’d like to introduce myself.  I’m a twenty six year old male, and I’ve read this newsgroup on and off for the last couple years.   Also, I’d like some feedback on my medication.  First, though, my history with panic disorder…  Ever since I was a little kid I’ve had trouble with panic attacks.  In Little League, I was a nervous wreck before games because I thought I might have an attack.  (Of course at the time I didn’t know what they were, and was afraid to tell anyone.)  I quit the basketball team because I thought I was prone to PAs at night, particularly in the lighting of a gymnasium.  These were textbook panic attacks I was having (and worrying about having!) – most of the symptoms, and they’d last about fifteen minutes or so. I had a pretty normal childhood otherwise.  By the time I reached high school, I considered the PAs a thing of the past, something I’d luckily outgrown.  I made it through college without really giving panic attacks any thought. Then — about three years ago (I’d been out of college almost a year), I was going through a somewhat stressful time in my life, trying to figure out my future, looking for a career I cared about, etc.  I had *the* worst panic attack I’d ever had, and the reason it was so bad was because it seemed to not go away.  Without exaggeration, I can honestly say that I felt like I was having a panic attack for two months.  I had no idea what was going on, and grew very depressed.  I was living with my girlfriend, who was supportive as she could be, but she was the only person I told.  This was a very dark, scary time in my life.  Things lightened up a bit when I finally told my mom.  She knew someone who’d had a problem that sounded similar.  Soon, I moved back home.  I met with my mom’s friend, who gave me several books to read (Kernodle, Sheehan, Reid, Weekes), which I read with a frenzy.  She also recommended a psychiatrist, who helped me through medication.  This was a summer of healing for me.  We found a medication combination – 5 mg per day of Xanax, 1mg per day Klonopin, and 150 mg per day Zoloft.  I had tried Imipramine, but it made me feel even more anxious, as though I were about to have a PA at any time. Anyway, this dosage took awhile to reach, but it was the dosage that worked for me.  I also read and practiced many of the self-help techniques such as deep relaxation, breathing exercises, meditation, stopping negative thought patterns, et al.  It took awhile, but I got better.  I finally felt some joy in life again.  Since then, I’ve stayed at the same dosages of the medications, with few side effects, and feel very good.  I’ve had panic attacks begin, but the combination of the medication and learning not to fear the attack enables me to take a deep breath and let it go.  My life isn’t perfect, but I feel sane. I’ve moved away from my parents house, and owe them a HUGE debt of gratitude for letting me free-load for a year as I got better.  It took me awhile to get a job, because I had an immense fear of being stuck somewhere for eight hours. I wasn’t afraid to go out – I was afraid, though, to *have* to be in one place.  When I finally started working, it was a huge step in my recovery.   So, I’m curious what your thoughts are on my medication.  Sometimes I feel a bit guilty, like I should try to taper off the meds.  Other times, I’m perfectly content to stay on them the rest of my life.  I haven’t built up a tolerance for the Xanax, so that’s not a problem.  My doctor mentions tapering every time I see her, which is every three months, but lately I’ve been in so many transitional stages in my life, I just haven’t felt ready to mess with the medication.  (First I moved away from home – far away, actually – and then I got married to the girlfriend who’d been so supportive when I first got sick, and now we have a three month old baby boy….I’d call all that "transitional".)   That’s my story, and I’m curious what you all have to say about my medication. I know the dosages are pretty high, but I also know that quality of life is not something to take for granted. Peace, Dan "Is a dream a lie if it don’t come true  Or is it something worse?"              - Bruce Springsteen

Response:

It is hard enough to find medications that take care of the symptoms. If these meds work for you, then you have achieved your goal and I would not try to change them right now, just to get your life back in shape while you are still feeling well.  Make sure your doc. informs you about all possible side effects, but basically I wouldn’t touch a thing for as long as possible if you find a set of meds that really work for you. Dr.S. There are no false alarms http://www.algy.com/pdi – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -(SYMKTB) writes: I’d like to introduce myself.  I’m a twenty six year old male, and I’ve read this newsgroup on and off for the last couple years.   Also, I’d like some feedback on my medication.  First, though, my history with panic disorder…  Ever since I was a little kid I’ve had trouble with panic attacks.  In Little League, I was a nervous wreck before games because I thought I might have an attack.  (Of course at the time I didn’t know what they were, and was afraid to tell anyone.)  I quit the basketball team because I thought I was prone to PAs at night, particularly in the lighting of a gymnasium.  These were textbook panic attacks I was having (and worrying about having!) – most of the symptoms, and they’d last about fifteen minutes or so. I had a pretty normal childhood otherwise.  By the time I reached high school, I considered the PAs a thing of the past, something I’d luckily outgrown.  I made it through college without really giving panic attacks any thought. Then — about three years ago (I’d been out of college almost a year), I was going through a somewhat stressful time in my life, trying to figure out my future, looking for a career I cared about, etc.  I had *the* worst panic attack I’d ever had, and the reason it was so bad was because it seemed to not go away.  Without exaggeration, I can honestly say that I felt like I was having a panic attack for two months.  I had no idea what was going on, and grew very depressed.  I was living with my girlfriend, who was supportive as she could be, but she was the only person I told.  This was a very dark, scary time in my life.  Things lightened up a bit when I finally told my mom.  She knew someone who’d had a problem that sounded similar.  Soon, I moved back home.  I met with my mom’s friend, who gave me several books to read (Kernodle, Sheehan, Reid, Weekes), which I read with a frenzy.  She also recommended a psychiatrist, who helped me through medication.  This was a summer of healing for me.  We found a medication combination – 5 mg per day of Xanax, 1mg per day Klonopin, and 150 mg per day Zoloft.  I had tried Imipramine, but it made me feel even more anxious, as though I were about to have a PA at any time. Anyway, this dosage took awhile to reach, but it was the dosage that worked for me.  I also read and practiced many of the self-help techniques such as deep relaxation, breathing exercises, meditation, stopping negative thought patterns, et al.  It took awhile, but I got better.  I finally felt some joy in life again.  Since then, I’ve stayed at the same dosages of the medications, with few side effects, and feel very good.  I’ve had panic attacks begin, but the combination of the medication and learning not to fear the attack enables me to take a deep breath and let it go.  My life isn’t perfect, but I feel sane. I’ve moved away from my parents house, and owe them a HUGE debt of gratitude for letting me free-load for a year as I got better.  It took me awhile to get a job, because I had an immense fear of being stuck somewhere for eight hours. I wasn’t afraid to go out – I was afraid, though, to *have* to be in one place. When I finally started working, it was a huge step in my recovery.   So, I’m curious what your thoughts are on my medication.  Sometimes I feel a bit guilty, like I should try to taper off the meds.  Other times, I’m perfectly content to stay on them the rest of my life.  I haven’t built up a tolerance for the Xanax, so that’s not a problem.  My doctor mentions tapering every time I see her, which is every three months, but lately I’ve been in so many transitional stages in my life, I just haven’t felt ready to mess with the medication.  (First I moved away from home – far away, actually – and then I got married to the girlfriend who’d been so supportive when I first got sick, and now we have a three month old baby boy….I’d call all that "transitional".)   That’s my story, and I’m curious what you all have to say about my medication. I know the dosages are pretty high, but I also know that quality of life is not something to take for granted. Peace, Dan "Is a dream a lie if it don’t come true Or is it something worse?"             – Bruce Springsteen

Response:

SYMKTB schreef: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – < snipped life story for space  We found a medication combination – 5 mg per day of Xanax, 1mg per day Klonopin, and 150 mg per day Zoloft. with few side effects, and feel very good.  I’ve had panic attacks begin, but the combination of the medication and learning not to fear the attack enables me to take a deep breath and let it go.  My life isn’t perfect, but I feel sane. So, I’m curious what your thoughts are on my medication.  Sometimes I feel a bit guilty, like I should try to taper off the meds.  Other times, I’m perfectly content to stay on them the rest of my life.  I haven’t built up a tolerance for the Xanax, so that’s not a problem.  My doctor mentions tapering every time I see her, which is every three months, but lately I’ve been in so many transitional stages in my life, I just haven’t felt ready to mess with the medication.  (First I moved away from home – far away, actually – and then I got married to the girlfriend who’d been so supportive when I first got sick, and now we have a three month old baby boy….I’d call all that "transitional".) That’s my story, and I’m curious what you all have to say about my medication. I know the dosages are pretty high, but I also know that quality of life is not something to take for granted. Peace, Dan

Hi Dan! Good to hear you’re doing so much better. It seems you have a nice family and your parents seem to have an OK son who will surely be a great father himself. It’s a kind of success story which is always inspirational and it seems there is much warmth around you. About the meds: it’s a lot of benzodiazepine but if it works, it works and if you don’t notice side effects like motor or cognitive impairment I wouldn’t worry about it. The combo of SSRI and benzo is a common one and the Zoloft dose is not unusually high. I’m happy that it works for you the way it does. If and when you feel like it you can always experiment with reducing the Xanax dosage but if it turns out that need 5 mgs that’s fine too IMO. Philip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "Is a dream a lie if it don’t come true  Or is it something worse?"              - Bruce Springsteen

Response:

We found a medication combination – 5 mg per day of Xanax, 1mg per day Klonopin, and 150 mg per day Zoloft…… I’ve stayed at the same dosages of the medications, with few side effects, and feel very good.  I’ve had panic attacks begin, but the combination of the medication and learning not to fear the attack enables me to take a deep breath and let it go.  My life isn’t perfect, but I feel sane.

This is great you have had such support and found a combo that works for you and given you back your life. So, I’m curious what your thoughts are on my medication.  Sometimes I feel a bit guilty, like I should try to taper off the meds.  Other times, I’m perfectly content to stay on them the rest of my life.  I haven’t built up a tolerance for the Xanax, so that’s not a problem.

My first reaction is – if it ain’t broken, why fix it?  I think many of us get to a point we feel we can do this without meds and you are certainly free to try and lower your doses and see what happens.  I did that once and found I didn’t need as much K as I was taking.  Went a little lower and found I had pushed it too far.  Anyways,  I don’t know why you feel guilty, as IMO, there is no need to.  Better to be on meds and functioning than a suffering *warrior*.  Plus you have already been there and know what it is like. My doctor mentions tapering every time I see her, which is every three months, but lately I’ve been in so many transitional stages in my life, I just haven’t felt ready to mess with the medication

An excellent reason for NOT making changes at this time.  If you do want to try that….I hope you will do it at a time when life is relatively stable and nonchaotic – and having a new baby sure doesn’t seem the time.  Congrats by the way.  :) That’s my story, and I’m curious what you all have to say about my medication. I know the dosages are pretty high, but I also know that quality of life is not something to take for granted.

Dan…I think you just answered your own question.  Dosages are irrelevent – all that matters is what works for the individual.  Alot to be said for that quality of life thing. Best wishes… Gwen

Response:

(SYMKTB) writes: That’s my story, and I’m curious what you all have to say about my medication.

Hi Dan, good story. It gives people hope when they read that someone is doing well. I can’t give you much input on the meds. Please don’t ever feel guilty about taking the medication you need to control the PD. I suffered for years without them. I tried going to therapy and CBT  but nothing ever worked for me.  I’m considering asking my Dr about taking Klonopin. I’ve taken Xanax .5 mg PRN for the past 2 years. I’ve had PD since I was a child as well, but it was only 2 years ago that I decided to go to a Dr and ask for medication. You’re fortunate to have a supporting family and spouse. It’s much easier to deal with your PD if you know someone actually "believes" what’s going on. My husband always thought I was "making it up" until he saw our (at the time 4 yr old) daughter going through a PA. First he started to yell at her, then he saw the fear on her little face and said,"my God, what’s wrong with her?" Of course, I knew what was happening to her and told him. Then he felt awful for all those years of actually yelling at me to "knock off the bullsh*t" during my PA’s. Now whenever he witnesses one, he comes close to tears and tries everything he can to help. I can really relate to your comment on not being afraid to go out, but  being afraid of *having* to be somewhere for 8 hours. I have to return to work as soon as my daughter starts school, and I know I can only handle a few hours a day. That’s why I’m thinking about the Klonopin. I’m sure you’ll get a lot of helpful information from your post. I really learn a lot from here as long as I skip over the useless "wars" that go on. I don’t post here that often myself, but , what prompted me to was to congratulate you on your new baby boy!  And that I see you are a fellow BOSS fan! good luck with the little 3 month old "transition"!! (that’s a biggie isn’t it? LOL!) adp

Response:

Question:

Wanted to let you know what Debra thought of the NSTA symposium.  She sent this to me and I wanted to share it with all of you, since I posted her first call for help, on asd, asking if anyone else was going, since she was going alone.  She enjoyed meeting Elf, Katie and Sondra.  I thank all of you, too, for looking her up. Deb’s message: First of all, thanks to all of you who responded to my inquiry regarding who was attending.  Since it was my first symposium and my spouse could not attend, it was a little intimidating going alone.  However, as suggested through your e-mails, everyone was very kind and helpful. The symposium was great!  If you have never been to one, I would highly recommend it – next year is in San Diego – also a great vacation spot! I found one of the major benefits in attending is sharing the stories, symptoms, concerns with other ST’rs and having someone finally relate to the same set of feelings.  An extra special thanks and "hello" to three wonderful women found through the net, Romona (Elf) from Tennessee, Katie Stehr from Georgia, and Sondra from Ohio.  I also found many members of the NSTA team to be great including Jan Richter, Patricia Murray, Carol Frank, David Stein, and Don Roblee.  Time just flew and attendance was excellent making the sad part the inability to meet and spend time talking with everyone. Carol Frank, President of NSTA, shared that in 1980, there were 22 members of NSTA – today, there are over 3,000.  I’m certain most of you now know about the Botox A shortage.  Allergan is completely out of the product awaiting FDA approval hopefully by the end of November.  You can reach a local sales rep for updates at 1-800-639-7914. After the "Taco Neck" syndrome, Jerry West of the L.A. Lakers has cut two public service announcements.  It was also announced that Dixie Carter and Hal Holbrook will help to sponsor a Casino Night in L.A. next year.  We are still looking for our "famous affected spokesperson". The educational piece of the session began with Dr. Paul Cullis and Dr. Christopher O’Brien discussing Botox.   Most of you know that the body uses acetylcholine from the nerve transmission to the muscle causing it to contract.  Botox stops the release of this action.  There are three proteins that release acetylcholine and Botox A works on one protein (SNAP-25) while Botox B works on Synaptobrevin or VAMP.  One good idea to help counter the antibody situation many have experienced, is to alternate Botox A and Botox B once it has been approved.  It is estimated that the timeframe for Botox B approval is about 12 months.  Another key point from O’Brien is that administration of Botox is an art form and the success on a patient is very technique dependent.   This takes time and experience.  There are 56 muscles in the neck and proper administration of Botox is not in any textbook.   The stats from Cullis and O’Brien were an 80-85% good response rate for Botox for cervical dystonia.  Although to some of us, it has seemed like a miracle, it is not.  Botox typically responds in 1-10 days and peaks between 2-6 weeks. Average time between treatment is 3-4 months; Botox itself actually lasts 12 months but the brain makes new connections to new muscles causing the dystonia symptoms to reoccur.  Botox has been used on some patients for 15 years still receiving good results.  Dystonia does get worse with time and it does get harder to treat.  Antibodies tend to develop faster in younger people, higher doses (300 units+) and more frequent use.  Botox B is supposed to be a cleaner toxin.  Although there is a lot of research going on in many areas for dystonia – genetics, surgeries etc., O’Brien felt Botox will probably be the dystonia treatment of choice for the next five years. The next presentation was by Deborah DeLeon M.S. on the study of genetics of dystonia.  The first issue here is resources.  It is only herself and one other person (now on maternity leave) doing the research so it is taking much longer.  Genetics are showing that dystonia does carry on chromosomes but different ones for different family groups.  There are 2-3 times as many women with cervical dystonia compared to men.  It is showing up a lot in individuals with German backgrounds. Dr. Drake Duane spoke next on "Is ST an autoimmune disease?  He has studied about 300 patients between 1987-1997.  He has discovered the average age of onset is 43.5 yrs and the ratio is 65% female/35%male.  About 90% of ST’rs get relief when laying down.  One key point new to me was the number of patients that develop scoliosis.  Physical therapy can be helpful here as arthritis sets into the neck and back.  Dr. Duane reiterated that the ST brain does not degenerate, it simply has a quirk.   It was never really answered if ST is an autoimmune disease, cause is still unknown. Dr. Mitchell Brin spoke next on Deep Brain Stimulation for ST.  Surgical options are normally left for those that do not respond to medications or Botox.  However, different surgical options are being investigated since there are still limited solutions.  Deep brain stimulation is where electrodes are implanted into one of two areas of the brain and "wires" run down the inside of the neck to the chest with an implant of a pacemaker device.  Videos were shown with Parkinson’s patients where they had virtually no control and when the electrical stimulation was supplied they could move almost normally.  The FDA has approved this process for Parkinson’s and essential tremor.  Dr. Brin will be trialing it on two dystonia patients in December. The next presentation was by Dr. Dennis Dykstra on Doxorubicin Chemomyectomy for the treatment of ST.  Doxorubicin is an anti-cancer drug.  It has been experimented on 18 blepharospasm patients with 9 patients "cured" for one year and 60% of those not receiving any other treatment.  Doxorubicin actually destroys muscle cells which then fills in with connective tissue.   Doxorubicin does not diffuse throughout the muscle like Botox and it can destroy other cells.  It can injure your heart, liver and is toxic to the skin.  It is irreversible.  There are three ST patients trialing this right now.   Since it is in such early stages, very conservative doses are being used and going after only one or two muscles at a time.  Results have thus shown minor improvement.  The benefits are it is much cheaper than Botox ($15 for 10 mg, using 60 mg doses) and it would be permanent.  Overall opinion on this is possible potential but too early to tell.  Next came the presentation from Paul Cullis on ITX (Immunotoxin).  Dr. Cullis pointed out the limitations of Botox are: 1)Duration 3-4 mos. 2) Very expensive 3) certain % of non-responders 4) not specific to the exact area. The goal of ITX is to develop an immunotoxin for treatment of focal muscle spasms utilizing an immunoglobulin that attacks a problem in the body and a toxin with a type of "cruise Missile" that destroys the affected muscle on contact  permanently.  The toxin being used for this study is Ricin (plant based) and it zeroes in on just the affected muscle cells. Unfortunately, I had to make some calls for work at this point so I missed the majority of the denervation surgery presentation.   After a long day filled with information we broke for socializing and sharing of more experiences. The next morning, we had two interesting gentlemen from England share an epidemiology study from the northeast of England and a new program where a Nurse Practitioner is providing Botox treatments in people’s homes.  Out of about 766 patients, 566 have focal dystonia and of those 351 are cervical. They are doing extensive education in England on dystonia and show about 1 in every 10,450 people has cervical dystonia.  The nurse practitioner program has been very successful as patients feel the nurse spends more time with them, really listens to where the pain is and frees the doctor up for more consultation time.  They also expressed that ST is not only a physical movement disorder but it moves people socially and economically as well.  In England, average onset was at 39.4 years and diagnosis at 47 years thus the push for education.  From an employment standpoint for ST, 30.8% were available for work of  which 13.5% were in full-time employment, 8.2% in part-time employment, 7.7% unemployed and 1.4% self-employed.  However, an additional 25.6% were on long-term sick leave or retired early.  Similar employment results were found in a study in Germany.  The treatment of choice in England is Botox rather than drugs that also affect other areas of the body.  Although they also stated that 25% of all patients are dopa responsive so they try Sinebid prior to Botox. From a social perspective, 59.8% of ST’rs had moderate anxiety or depression compared to 19.1% of the general population.  8.8% of ST’rs had severe anxiety or depression compared to 1% of the general population.  60.4% experienced pain or discomfort compared to 29% of the general population and 21.8% had severe pain compared to 3.8% of the general population.  Social functioning for ST’rs was also 23.7 points below the general population. Next came Lee Dreyfus, former Governor of Wisconsin to discuss "Coping as a Family Member".  His wife, Joyce, developed ST seven years ago after a fall at their cottage.   Mr. Dreyfus was quite humorous and while I did not personally agree with everything he said or the comments he made about  and to his wife, he had a few key points from my perspective.  ST is not an individual affliction, it affects all family members.  He felt the key to a successful marriage was a male vs. a shared leadership and that each partner’s #1 concern should be the other person.  He encouraged ST’rs not to "use" the ST as an excuse and not to play wolf with "can’t" vs. "won’t".  He said family members must … read more »

Response:

Thank You Tommye, I thought Deb did a superb job and posted this information, since she sent it to me.  I have received mail from England asking for more info, which I forwarded to him, after I emailed to Deb to get it.    Love Ya too, ….Anna – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks Anna and Deb!!!  This is so very interesting-thank you so very much for posting it!! Love Ya, Tommye

Response: