Question:

Hi!    I have felt both ways meaning when the doctors have increased/decreased the Prednisone I still have numberous attacks. I have come to the conclusion that I am very sensitive to alot of allergens. Sometimes I am just not sure what to do anymore.  I hope you feel better.   Sandy

Response:

I just tapered off a five day prednizone treatment, now I am off of it and on flovent and albuterol, has anyone felt  more asthma after coming off of pred?

Response:

James Yes. I had to extend the pred treatment to 10 days and taper off more slowly. Norman – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just tapered off a five day prednizone treatment, now I am off of it and on flovent and albuterol, has anyone felt  more asthma after coming off of pred?

Response:

Question:

                        Stokes                         P.O. Box 548                         Buffalo, NY  14240-0548                         Tel (716) 695-6980

Response:

Sounds good!  Can someone give me a phone or fax number or address so I can request a catalog? I absolutely agree about Stokes.  The catalog is so good it is like a reference book.  The variety is unbeatable, and quality is excellent.  Is their new catalog out yet??

–         http://www.rtis.com/reg/bryan/communit/facility/ @

Question:

Thanks for the help. Brian’s chest specialist is planning to substitute Singulair for Flovent. My husband and I are still deciding whether to stop the Flovent and change to Singulair or put up with the behaviour changes and leave him on Flovent. The Flovent does work.         I’ve been using the other powerful effective steroid Pulmicort for some nine months and it’s done me a whole lot of good.           Last month I started taking Singulair. Didn’t notice any effect for a few days.  But now, thirty days later, I’m using a whole lot less of the rescue inhaler (albuterol) And from time to time, I’m  forgetting to take the Pulmicort.          I can’t believe your doctor want’s to stop the Flovent before seeing what effect the Singulair may have. (From the point of view of "If it works, don’ mess with it."  Are you sure you read him right?

Response:

I may be a little late with this response. My son has been sporatically on Singular since he was 3 y.o… The reason for only being on it once in a while is because it gave him headaches.  It took me a while to figure out they were related to the Singular, but it is listed as a side effect.  Our doctor initially had given him a 5mg chewable.  Then had us break it in half when the headaches started.   The headaches continued so I gave up on it until recently I’ve tried him on 1/2 tablets again (he is 5 now) and he seems to do better on them. Just FYI …keep it in mind that there are side effects to the Singular. Marina – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks for the help.  Brian’s chest specialist is planning to substitute Singulair for Flovent.  My husband and I are still deciding whether to stop the Flovent and change to Singulair or put up with the behaviour changes and leave him on Flovent. The Flovent does work.  He has gotten sick this week with the flu and his asthma has not flared yet (yay!!!). I have talked to other parents who have had the same experience we have with using flovent.  I haven’t seen any studies that say flovent causes behaviour changes but can only go by what I am seeing. Debbie If you haven’t already tried it, you might be surprised about your son’s reaction to Singulair. It tastes _so_ pleasing to children that I’ve read (sorry, can’t recall the source) that there is pressure on the maker to change the flavor to something less palatable. There’ve been incidents of children overdosing on it, perhaps seeing it more as It’s small, cute, pink and tastes great. Even my 10-year old, for whom Singulair proved ineffective, whined the other day he wishes he could take it again, it tasted so good. Crushing it and sprinkling it in something should be no problem for him. ~Jacy

Response:

Thanks for the help.  Brian’s chest specialist is planning to substitute Singulair for Flovent.  My husband and I are still deciding whether to stop the Flovent and change to Singulair or put up with the behaviour changes and leave him on Flovent. The Flovent does work.  He has gotten sick this week with the flu and his asthma has not flared yet (yay!!!).   I have talked to other parents who have had the same experience we have with using flovent.  I haven’t seen any studies that say flovent causes behaviour changes but can only go by what I am seeing. Debbie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you haven’t already tried it, you might be surprised about your son’s reaction to Singulair. It tastes _so_ pleasing to children that I’ve read (sorry, can’t recall the source) that there is pressure on the maker to change the flavor to something less palatable. There’ve been incidents of children overdosing on it, perhaps seeing it more as It’s small, cute, pink and tastes great. Even my 10-year old, for whom Singulair proved ineffective, whined the other day he wishes he could take it again, it tasted so good. Crushing it and sprinkling it in something should be no problem for him. ~Jacy

Response:

If you haven’t already tried it, you might be surprised about your son’s reaction to Singulair. It tastes _so_ pleasing to children that I’ve read (sorry, can’t recall the source) that there is pressure on the maker to change the flavor to something less palatable. There’ve been incidents of children overdosing on it, perhaps seeing it more as It’s small, cute, pink and tastes great. Even my 10-year old, for whom Singulair proved ineffective, whined the other day he wishes he could take it again, it tasted so good. Crushing it and sprinkling it in something should be no problem for him. ~Jacy

Response:

Hi, I’m on flovent since 1999, i’ve never had behavior and personality affects and never heard of some in children. You may try to check other places than flovent side effects. It’s working well, for singulair, headache can occur, if it doesn’t disappear after 2-3 days see your MD to quit singulair. Singulair work well in 1/3 of the peoples, there’s majority of children in this 1/3, another 1/3 get some result, and finally 1/3 don’t get any benifit. You can see result 2-3 days after the first treatment. Don’t quit flovent, for your child don’t worry you’re in the "terrible 2 years" period, they always say no, it like the small angel tranform itself in a little devil! Good luck! AT – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My 2 1/2 year old son is currently using flovent as his preventer medication.  We have found that this affects his behaviour and personality.  When I discussed this with his chest specialist he claims that flovent should not affect his personality.  He suggested that we try singulair with him. Two questions immediately come to mind. One, how do you give a chewable singulair tablet to a child who will refuse to chew it?  (He will not chew anything hard). Two, does anyone have experience with giving singulair to a child this young?  I was told that there should not be any side effects but my husband and I are concerned about using this drug.  We are considering living with the flovent because we know it works. Thanks in advance.  Debbie

Response:

My 2 1/2 year old son is currently using flovent as his preventer medication.  We have found that this affects his behaviour and personality.  When I discussed this with his chest specialist he claims that flovent should not affect his personality.  He suggested that we try singulair with him. Two questions immediately come to mind. One, how do you give a chewable singulair tablet to a child who will refuse to chew it?  (He will not chew anything hard). Two, does anyone have experience with giving singulair to a child this young?  I was told that there should not be any side effects but my husband and I are concerned about using this drug.  We are considering living with the flovent because we know it works. Thanks in advance.  Debbie

Response:

Question:

What say you all???

I say all things in moderation. I don’t see how it could be any worse than breathing while driving a car, or drinking treated water, drinking regular coke or coffee, or getting a measles shot. .. Bridget M. Atkins maintenance for life.

Response:

Hello All, I have read in Adkin’s books about Splenda which is a artificial sweetner.  I have heard some folks swear by it because they can cook with it. I live overseas on an Air Force Base and I was shocked that we had it so I got some.  I only have it maybe twice a day with my caffine free coffee or my green tea.  That is the ONLY sugur I have used in weeks now. When you use that little you might try real sugar and see if you can handle it. To me Splenda seems too processed and unnatural.

And your statement "seems" like unscientific garbage. Sugar is  processed from beets or canes and then further processed into Splenda. Wonderful things happen when you don’t eat as much sweet anymore and I  think using something "safe" like Splenda to sweeten might make you use more and thus will keep you addicted to sweetness, thus ruining the experience of real food. If you use sugar you know you have to limit your intake.

Don’t listen to this dumbass.  Use the Splenda, and DON’T use sugar. –Bryan

Response:

I say, neither, but rather, like most things, some good and some evil.   Priscilla — Minutus cantorum, minutus balorum, minutus carborata descendum pantorum.   (thanks be to topfive.com)

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello All, I have read in Adkin’s books about Splenda which is a artificial sweetner.  I have heard some folks swear by it because they can cook with it. I live overseas on an Air Force Base and I was shocked that we had it so I got some.  I only have it maybe twice a day with my caffine free coffee or my green tea.  That is the ONLY sugur I have used in weeks now. When you use that little you might try real sugar and see if you can handle it. To me Splenda seems too processed and unnatural. And your statement "seems" like unscientific garbage. Sugar is  processed from beets or canes and then further processed into Splenda. Wonderful things happen when you don’t eat as much sweet anymore and I  think using something "safe" like Splenda to sweeten might make you use more and thus will keep you addicted to sweetness, thus ruining the experience of real food. If you use sugar you know you have to limit your intake. Don’t listen to this dumbass.  Use the Splenda, and DON’T use sugar.

Geez, what’s your problem?  I think what he said makes a lot of sense. Priscilla — Minutus cantorum, minutus balorum, minutus carborata descendum pantorum.   (thanks be to topfive.com)

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello All, I have read in Adkin’s books about Splenda which is a artificial sweetner.  I have heard some folks swear by it because they can cook with it. I live overseas on an Air Force Base and I was shocked that we had it so I got some.  I only have it maybe twice a day with my caffine free coffee or my green tea.  That is the ONLY sugur I have used in weeks now. When you use that little you might try real sugar and see if you can handle it. To me Splenda seems too processed and unnatural. And your statement "seems" like unscientific garbage. Sugar is  processed from beets or canes and then further processed into Splenda. Wonderful things happen when you don’t eat as much sweet anymore and I think using something "safe" like Splenda to sweeten might make you use more and thus will keep you addicted to sweetness, thus ruining the experience of real food. If you use sugar you know you have to limit your intake. Don’t listen to this dumbass.  Use the Splenda, and DON’T use sugar. Geez, what’s your problem?  I think what he said makes a lot of sense.

i think so too.  i can handle small amounts of sugar – a tablespoon of organic sugar or maple syrup in my oatmeal doesn’t send me over the moon with cravings.  i’m one of those annoying people who prefers "real" food over "artificial," so for my purposes small amounts of sugar work just fine.  

Response:

i think so too.  i can handle small amounts of sugar – a tablespoon of organic sugar or maple syrup in my oatmeal doesn’t send me over the moon with cravings.  i’m one of those annoying people who prefers "real" food over "artificial," so for my purposes small amounts of sugar work just fine.  

My summertime morning iced tea tastes putrid to me with only artificial sweetener in it, so I use some sugar and some fake sweetener and am getting used to having it be not nearly as sweet as I used to drink it.   In cool weather my mug of hot tea in the morning has one level teaspoon of real sugar in it.  It doesn’t taste right otherwise.  One teaspoon doesn’t seem to spike me much, and sugar is a much safer carb to eat than, say, potatoes. Priscilla, T2, good control with LC — Minutus cantorum, minutus balorum, minutus carborata descendum pantorum.   (thanks be to topfive.com)

Response:

I agree completely, but have never been able to word it as well, Archon.  I use a little sugar in my hot beverages and control the amount very carefully.  I do not seek to replace all manner of sweets and carbs through articifical means and don’t feel prohibited or cheated because the basic lo carb diet is stabilizing enough to have banished my former cravings. Your reply is particularly timely because I was about to go shopping for Stevia today even though I’m having no hitch in my weight loss with the small of amounts (as compared to before) of sugar I’m consuming.  What do you think of Stevia, btw? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – When you use that little you might try real sugar and see if you can handle it. To me Splenda seems too processed and unnatural. Sugar is processed from beets or canes and then further processed into Splenda. Wonderful things happen when you don’t eat as much sweet anymore and I think using something "safe" like Splenda to sweeten might make you use more and thus will keep you addicted to sweetness, thus ruining the experience of real food. If you use sugar you know you have to limit your intake.

Response:

Great post, Michael.  I’ve been wondering about Splenda myself and what you said made a lot of sense.  I for one do not trust everything the government says is safe.  Prime example is a drug I’ve been trying to get off of for 2 months now.  Just a "harmless" antidepressant. Noone told the millions of people using it that it would be addictive and hell to get off of.  There are people all over the internet signing petitions to start a class action lawsuit against the drug company.  Anyway, I digress, but my point is that just because the government says Splenda is safe, imo, does not necessarily make it so. I’ve been reading a few things on it lately and it’s made me a little cautious of using it now. jmo

Nasty. See why I dislike medication? I wasn’t saying – have no expertice to do so – that Splenda is or may be harmful. Just that I don’t like the idea. Btw it does remind me about the margerine episode – replace butter with margerine. It’s fat altered so the body doesn’t recognize it as fat – like with Splenda it’s sugar altered so the body doesn’t recognize it as sugar. I prefer something the body knows what is and then just use less of it. — Michael Nielsen M.Sc.EE Music:   http://mp3.com/archon2 Website: http://www.archonia.dk

Response:

BTW, How many carbs in a teaspoon of sugar vs sugar substitutes? DC 187/174/155 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I say, neither, but rather, like most things, some good and some evil.   Priscilla

Response:

BTW, How many carbs in a teaspoon of sugar vs sugar substitutes?

A standard teaspoon (5 ml) sugar is 4 gram. — Michael Nielsen M.Sc.EE Music:   http://mp3.com/archon2 Website: http://www.archonia.dk

Response:

Don’t listen to this dumbass.  Use the Splenda, and DON’T use sugar.

Do you earn your living selling Splenda? If not, why so emotionally involved? — Michael Nielsen M.Sc.EE Music:   http://mp3.com/archon2 Website: http://www.archonia.dk

Response:

I agree completely, but have never been able to word it as well, Archon.  I use a little sugar in my hot beverages and control the amount very carefully.

A small teapsoon (5 gram) in my tea is too sweet for me (6 months ago I’d NEVER believe I would EVER say "it’s too sweet for me"!). I just use a squirt of heavy cream that gives a very pleasant mouth feel and satisfying effect and also sweetens it, smoothes the tannin, and produces a taste that kinda turns me on!   I do not seek to replace all manner of sweets and carbs through articifical means and don’t feel prohibited or cheated because the basic lo carb diet is stabilizing enough to have banished my former cravings.

One must beware of not becoming fanatic (see note) about it and treat oneself sometimes. And I find it more romantic and "healthy for the soul" to use natural things. I like some of the mottos for these diets: Don’t eat processed/refined foods, eat whole foods. I thinks it’s a shame that everything have to be so synthetic these days (I really hate those polyester shirts!) There’s medicine for the silliest things – I don’t have any drugs in the house – not even headache pills. When I was given a prescription for something silly I didn’t take it (if I was a doctor I’d say "get off all non critical medication, eat lowcarb, and buy some good inline skates and get out there and exercise". dealing with everythign with medicine weakens the body’s natural defence). And in my area I’m the one who’s least ill and sick – I saw a post theorizing that saturated fat may improve the immune system and I have always eaten huge amounts of whipped cream! My research is about improving performance in agriculture without using chemical means. Optimising fertilizer leaving no residual fertilizer in the soil, and minimizing need for toxins and finally leading to mechanical weeding. Note: Since I started this diet I’ve often been accused of being fanatic, though! I tell that I don’t deny myself of things, but the food I eat now is actually better. Last time I was called fanatic I could tell that I had just the day before felt like having good old-fashioned Danish pancakes (sweet crepes with raw cane sugar and strawberry jam). So I just made them – ate all I could eat (which was less than I used to be able to) and so I got my pancake fix (didn’t have any jam in the house so I used strawberries and whipped cream instead – so actually more lowcarb than I’d normally eat them!) Your reply is particularly timely because I was about to go shopping for Stevia today even though I’m having no hitch in my weight loss with the small of amounts (as compared to before) of sugar I’m consuming.  What do you think of Stevia, btw?

I’m not familiar with it – is it what used to be called Nutrasweet (which got banned in Denmark when I was a teenager)? — Michael Nielsen M.Sc.EE Music:   http://mp3.com/archon2 Website: http://www.archonia.dk

Response:

Many diabetics and LC`ers use them, I mean millions of us, are we all wrong and those two right?

so the millions of you that use it are either diabetic or overweight? hmmm…..

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Great post, Michael.  I’ve been wondering about Splenda myself and what you said made a lot of sense.  I for one do not trust everything the government says is safe.  Prime example is a drug I’ve been trying to get off of for 2 months now.  Just a "harmless" antidepressant.  Which antidepressant? — Mike Graham                  | Metalworker, rustic, part-time zealot. <http://www.metalmangler.com| First run on low-carb: 320lbs to 210lbs.            Restarted June 01/2003 – 245/236/not sure.                  DENIQUE DIAETAM EFFICACEM INVENI

Effexor.  Do a google search on Effexor withdrawals.  Thousands of people are suffering needlessly. ~~Lisa~~ 230/217/150 Started Atkins 06/04/03 Mark 10:26 ~ With God all things are possible.   The only thing worse then being alone is wishing you were.

Response:

Hi, Great post, Michael.  I’ve been wondering about Splenda myself and what you said made a lot of sense.  I for one do not trust everything the government says is safe.  Prime example is a drug I’ve been trying to get off of for 2 months now.  Just a "harmless" antidepressant.   Which antidepressant?

I’m guessing Paxil.  It’s got a bad rep for that sort of thing. Take care, Carmen

Response:

Hi Lisa, Great post, Michael.  I’ve been wondering about Splenda myself and what you said made a lot of sense.  I for one do not trust everything the government says is safe.  Prime example is a drug I’ve been trying to get off of for 2 months now.  Just a "harmless" antidepressant.  Which antidepressant? Effexor.  Do a google search on Effexor withdrawals.  Thousands of people are suffering needlessly.

I guessed wrong then.  I thought it was Paxil.  How did Effexor work with the depression? Take care, Carmen

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Lisa, Great post, Michael.  I’ve been wondering about Splenda myself and what you said made a lot of sense.  I for one do not trust everything the government says is safe.  Prime example is a drug I’ve been trying to get off of for 2 months now.  Just a "harmless" antidepressant.  Which antidepressant? Effexor.  Do a google search on Effexor withdrawals.  Thousands of people are suffering needlessly. I guessed wrong then.  I thought it was Paxil.  How did Effexor work with the depression? Take care, Carmen

Carmen, It did okay, but if I missed a dose by an hour or so the withdrawal symptoms were terrible.  I just couldn’t help thinking what this crap was doing to my body and my brain that I would react that way. I’ve never been much of a drug person anyway and so I’ve just decided to try and get off of it all and treat the FMS some other way. I’m researching vitamin therapy at the moment. ~~Lisa~~ 230/217/150 Started Atkins 06/04/03 Mark 10:26 ~ With God all things are possible.   The only thing worse then being alone is wishing you were.

Response:

Effexor.  Do a google search on Effexor withdrawals.  Thousands of people are suffering needlessly.

  I was curious because I’ve known several people who went on Wellbutrin for a short period (to quit smoking) and none of them had any difficulties with it. — Mike Graham                  | Metalworker, rustic, part-time zealot. <http://www.metalmangler.com| First run on low-carb: 320lbs to 210lbs.             Restarted June 01/2003 – 245/236/not sure.                   DENIQUE DIAETAM EFFICACEM INVENI

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello All, I have read in Adkin’s books about Splenda which is a artificial sweetner.  I have heard some folks swear by it because they can cook with it. I live overseas on an Air Force Base and I was shocked that we had it so I got some.  I only have it maybe twice a day with my caffine free coffee or my green tea.  That is the ONLY sugur I have used in weeks now. When you use that little you might try real sugar and see if you can handle it. To me Splenda seems too processed and unnatural. Sugar is processed from beets or canes and then further processed into Splenda. Wonderful things happen when you don’t eat as much sweet anymore and I think using something "safe" like Splenda to sweeten might make you use more and thus will keep you addicted to sweetness, thus ruining the experience of real food. If you use sugar you know you have to limit your intake. — Michael Nielsen M.Sc.EE

Great post, Michael.  I’ve been wondering about Splenda myself and what you said made a lot of sense.  I for one do not trust everything the government says is safe.  Prime example is a drug I’ve been trying to get off of for 2 months now.  Just a "harmless" antidepressant. Noone told the millions of people using it that it would be addictive and hell to get off of.  There are people all over the internet signing petitions to start a class action lawsuit against the drug company.  Anyway, I digress, but my point is that just because the government says Splenda is safe, imo, does not necessarily make it so. I’ve been reading a few things on it lately and it’s made me a little cautious of using it now. jmo ~~Lisa~~ 230/217/150 Started Atkins 06/04/03 Mark 10:26 ~ With God all things are possible.   The only thing worse then being alone is wishing you were.

Response:

i think so too.  i can handle small amounts of sugar – a tablespoon of organic sugar   Just so’s you know, sugar is sugar.  ’Organic sugar’ is no better for you than the regular sucrose that you get in the big bag for cheap.  The organic stuff is more likely to have contamination issues, as well.

i’m well aware that sugar is sugar; however, cane sugar tastes different than beet sugar does, and performs differently in baking.   evaporated cane juice sugar, to me, tastes better and gives better baking results – so that’s what i buy.  evaporated cane juice sugar is usually organic.  i don’t go out of my way to buy organic anything ever (i’m too poor), but the brand of sugar i prefer happens to be organic. so that’s what i typed.  

Response:

Great post, Michael.  I’ve been wondering about Splenda myself and what you said made a lot of sense.  I for one do not trust everything the government says is safe.  Prime example is a drug I’ve been trying to get off of for 2 months now.  Just a "harmless" antidepressant.

  Which antidepressant? — Mike Graham                  | Metalworker, rustic, part-time zealot. <http://www.metalmangler.com| First run on low-carb: 320lbs to 210lbs.             Restarted June 01/2003 – 245/236/not sure.                   DENIQUE DIAETAM EFFICACEM INVENI

Response:

i think so too.  i can handle small amounts of sugar – a tablespoon of organic sugar

  Just so’s you know, sugar is sugar.  ’Organic sugar’ is no better for you than the regular sucrose that you get in the big bag for cheap.  The organic stuff is more likely to have contamination issues, as well. — Mike Graham                  | Metalworker, rustic, part-time zealot. <http://www.metalmangler.com| First run on low-carb: 320lbs to 210lbs.             Restarted June 01/2003 – 245/236/not sure.                   DENIQUE DIAETAM EFFICACEM INVENI

Response:

Hello All, I have read in Adkin’s books about Splenda which is a artificial sweetner.  I have heard some folks swear by it because they can cook with it. I live overseas on an Air Force Base and I was shocked that we had it so I got some.  I only have it maybe twice a day with my caffine free coffee or my green tea.  That is the ONLY sugur I have used in weeks now. Now I read that it may be very bad for me.  Should I stop using it and just use regular sugar?  I hate Sweetnlow so that wasn’t an option, and the Equal has got Aspartme (sp).  Having a little sweet something now and then is a treat that I’m hoping I can get one way or the other, I just want to make the best choice. What say you all???

Response:

Hello All, I have read in Adkin’s books about Splenda which is a artificial sweetner.  I have heard some folks swear by it because they can cook with it. I live overseas on an Air Force Base and I was shocked that we had it so I got some.  I only have it maybe twice a day with my caffine free coffee or my green tea.  That is the ONLY sugur I have used in weeks now. Now I read that it may be very bad for me.  Should I stop using it and just use regular sugar?  I hate Sweetnlow so that wasn’t an option, and the Equal has got Aspartme (sp).  Having a little sweet something now and then is a treat that I’m hoping I can get one way or the other, I just want to make the best choice. What say you all???

Hi, Splenda and aspartame are completely and totally safe. They both been repeatedly tested by a whole lot of government regulatory agencies in a whole lot of different countries, and always passed. The possible and imaginary dangers are from the distorted minds of Mad Betty Martin and lunatic David Icke ( in th US and the UK respectively). Many diabetics and LC`ers use them, I mean millions of us, are we all wrong and those two right? hth — Al, Melton Mowbray, UK, diabetic Low-Carb a la Bernstein

Response:

Hello All, I have read in Adkin’s books about Splenda which is a artificial sweetner.  I have heard some folks swear by it because they can cook with it. I live overseas on an Air Force Base and I was shocked that we had it so I got some.  I only have it maybe twice a day with my caffine free coffee or my green tea.  That is the ONLY sugur I have used in weeks now.

When you use that little you might try real sugar and see if you can handle it. To me Splenda seems too processed and unnatural. Sugar is processed from beets or canes and then further processed into Splenda. Wonderful things happen when you don’t eat as much sweet anymore and I think using something "safe" like Splenda to sweeten might make you use more and thus will keep you addicted to sweetness, thus ruining the experience of real food. If you use sugar you know you have to limit your intake. — Michael Nielsen M.Sc.EE Music:   http://mp3.com/archon2 Website: http://www.archonia.dk

Response:

Question:

Carol: I took Paxil for a year, then switched to Celexa. The latter had far fewer side effects for me. Have you discussed this with your doctor? Best, Anne

Response:

I have been on Celexa, 30mg, for 6-8 weeks now. I have not noticed any side effect whatsoever. I am quite happy with it. AnxiousCollegeKid

Response:

This is a just a "me-too" to SSRI side-effects. The zoloft and effexor I tried out caused nothing but problems… -Doug (remove "botizer" from email addy to respond)

Response:

Hi all, Having a great deal of difficulty with the side effects of the SSRIs, and also having trouble sticking w/them as a result. Which SSRIs do you think have the least side effects? Thanks, Carol

Response:

:Hi all, : :Having a great deal of difficulty with the side effects of the SSRIs, and :also having trouble sticking w/them as a result. : :Which SSRIs do you think have the least side effects? : :Thanks, :Carol Dear Carol, There really is no easy answer to your question being reactions to meds are so very individualized. One SSRI that quite a few are having good luck with is Celexa. However, there is no guarantee that this AD would cause you the least amount of side-effects. How many SSRI`s have you tried? There is also a chance that you just can`t tolerate SSRI`s. You might want to talk to your doctor about the Tricyclic class of antidepressants, they are as effective as the SSRI`s. Take care Jackie ~*~In Everything You Hope Or Do, I`ll Encourage And Believe In You~*~

Response:

Hi all, Having a great deal of difficulty with the side effects of the SSRIs, and also having trouble sticking w/them as a result. Which SSRIs do you think have the least side effects? Thanks, Carol

This is very much an YMMV matter, our reactions to meds are so individual. In theory Celexa is supposed to have the lowest side effects profile of the SSRI’s. You are not married to SSRI’s by the way, there are other antidepressants out there too (such as the TCA’s). Philip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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Question:

I’ve been depressed for the past several months and I sleep too much. My new doc perscibed prozac and trazodone, has anyone had this experience? wil

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Hi!  I was on Prozac and Trazedone for a couple of years.  I am still taking Trazedone at night (taking other meds during the day).  Trazedone at a therapeutic dose at night will help you sleep good and hopefully will enable you after 8 hours of sleep to awaken refreshed and the Prozac should help keep you movin during the day. My new doc perscibed prozac and trazodone, has anyone had this experience?

<//< Cynthia / Southern California "Jesus Wept"

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I’ve been depressed for the past several months and I sleep too much. My new doc perscibed prozac and trazodone, has anyone had this experience? wil

Wil, I used to take both these meds well before my diagnosis was well defined. I recall the prozac made me feel slightly "wired" and buzzing, and the trazodone was to help with sleep – and it also was supposed to counter the sexual side-effects of the prozac (I found trazodone didn’t help with that).  I later switched to zoloft. For sleep I was later prescribed ambien (which again was supposed to counter the sexual side-effects of zoloft – it didn’t work for me). best, Rick S.

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Wilfredo, I took prozac for a while and trazadone also.  Separately.  I’m currently on no meds for depression (except my thyroid LOL) but I do still occasionally take 50-100 mg of trazadone at night to sleep.  My psychiatrist gave it to me and continues to prescribe it.  It’s on an as needed basis.  I love that stuff! Jane

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve been depressed for the past several months and I sleep too much. My new doc perscibed prozac and trazodone, has anyone had this experience? wil Wil, I used to take both these meds well before my diagnosis was well defined. I recall the prozac made me feel slightly "wired" and buzzing, and the trazodone was to help with sleep – and it also was supposed to counter the sexual side-effects of the prozac (I found trazodone didn’t help with that).  I later switched to zoloft. For sleep I was later prescribed ambien (which again was supposed to counter the sexual side-effects of zoloft – it didn’t work for me). best, Rick S.

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Question:

I need to break my silence and delurk for a few minutes.

I’m glad you are giving up your silence. but he doesn’t think I’m doing enough to fight my depression, and that I’m just giving in and staying in bed too much.

<nod, nod I know this one. , and my moods can change so rapidly

Mine too. I just can’t sleep properly.  I just want to feel rested, and to wake up and not still feel tired.  It would be great not to wake up heaps of times during the night.  I’m back taking valium again,

OK, NOW you’re really starting to sound like me but I went on Xanax. The last two nights, I’ve taken more than I’m supposed to, hoping that an extra pill or two will be enough to let me sleep.

I’m not telling but I might do this too but the Xanax does knock me out for a while. I also have been having weird and bad dreams again. I hope you start doing better soon. Maybe by opening up it will help. Mary Beth p’ed and e’d

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I haven’t posted anything in almost 2 weeks now.  Perhaps I wanted to see if anyone would miss me….It doesn’t matter though.  I need to break my

hugs to you too! Sfunny..  I was just thinking I hadn’t seen you for a while in asd… glad to see that you are okayish…. I know how you feel about tiredness…  I’m on 225mg daily of effexor, and i constantly feel very tired…..  I sleep ok, but i wake at 7am every day ((( have you tried herbal sleeping pills???  They may mess up with your meds….  Not getting enough sleep is annoying…. Have you mentioned your sleeping problems to your GP/therapist??? Don’t worry for posting for selfish reasons….  you have helped us loads of times in the past, so it’s time that we helped you…. Take care of yourself you hear??? Brian… Pooh…  Something stinks in my room….  Better get the hoover out!!! /~~ The Depressed Nudist ~~

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I need to break my silence and delurk for a few minutes. I’m glad you are giving up your silence.

Thanks.  Staying silent seems safer, but I know talking and stepping over the other boundaries that I think keep me safe is the only way for me to make progress. but he doesn’t think I’m doing enough to fight my depression, and that I’m just giving in and staying in bed too much. <nod, nod I know this one.

It’s hard for people, even those who, like Leigh, have battled some depression themselves, to see things from my point of view.  When some days just getting out of bed is a great achievement, or even just staying alive, it seems to me like I’m making a huge effort.  But other people can’t read my mind, and they don’t know how hard some days can be, so to them, it seems like I’m doing nothing. , and my moods can change so rapidly Mine too.

This is new for me, since I’m not bipolar.  All I know is that one day, or even one hour, I can feel fairly good, and the next I’m crying or just unable to function at all.  It’s taking a bit of getting used to. I just can’t sleep properly.  I just want to feel rested, and to wake up and not still feel tired.  It would be great not to wake up heaps of times during the night.  I’m back taking valium again, OK, NOW you’re really starting to sound like me but I went on Xanax.

I haven’t slept well in years, so I’m thinking of telling my pdoc when I see him next week if I can try a different sedative, because obviously the valium isn’t working as well as it’s supposed to. The last two nights, I’ve taken more than I’m supposed to, hoping that an extra pill or two will be enough to let me sleep. I’m not telling but I might do this too but the Xanax does knock me out for a while. I also have been having weird and bad dreams again. I hope you start doing better soon. Maybe by opening up it will help. Mary Beth p’ed and e’d

Thanks Mary Beth.  I’m glad you’ve found a pill that helps you sleep, at least at the moment anyway.  Luckily, I haven’t had many medication induced dreams (in fact, I rarely dream at all) so I really hope those go away quickly. I hope opening up a bit and posting again helps me, because nothing else seems to be working anymore. Also, thanks for responding to my post.  You don’t usually respond to things I write, and I was starting to wonder if I’d offended you or something.  I couldn’t think of how I might have done that, but I felt like I was being ignored.  I’m glad I’ve been proven wrong, and I can assume those thoughts were my own paranoia sneaking in again. I would have said that via e-mail, rather than posting it to the group,  but my proxy server is screwed up at the moment, and I can’t access my web based mail, only the account and newsgroups I have set up through Outlook Express. Thanks again, Kylie.

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CAREFUL WITH THE VALIUM. It is a muscle relaxant. And your Heart is a MUSCLE. I do hope you find something to help you get some sleep. Have you tried Ambien or Deseryl? I flip and flop like a fish out of water at times when i try to sleep at night, i have been meaning to go to a sleep clinic. If you constantly wake up, you will never get into your REM stage of sleep and you will feel tired all of the time. I hope that you are doing better. Sincerely, Trish

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It sure sounds like you’ve been through an unbelievable amount of shit.  I can’t even imagine.

Yep, an "unbelievable amount of shit" sums it up pretty well, although there are others here who have been through worse.  I’ve been diagnosed for about 14 months now, and on meds for about 8 months, yet nothing has made any difference.  I’m now failing out of uni because I can’t function properly, and I’m just trying to hang in there until my psychiatrist finds a medication that works for me.  He does believe I will respond to an SSRI, but since there’s a hell of a lot of them it could take a while to find the right one.   I have depression and have been "lucky" – I found a – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – great shrink many years ago who knew what she was doing about medication and put me on Parnate, which I have been taking for almost 10 years.  I also have seen her on a regular basis for psychotherapy.  It sound horrible that you had to experience these kind of side effects on your medication.  A competent doctor should work with you to find the best medicine for you which does not have those kind of effects.  There are so many medications available now – for me, I only got real help when I went to a shrink who was trained in psychopharmocology.  It was a great combination – she knew everything about the medicines and was a great psychotherapist.  There are a lot of people out there like that.  Maybe you could find a better shrink/therapist who would work more closely with you to get the right meds which don’t fuck up your body.  Good luck.

I’m not considering changing therapists or psychiatrists yet, because I have a great relationship with my therp, and my pdoc’s specialty is abuse and trauma survivors, which is what I need, and he is nice.  I will admit that the side-effects are a total pain in the arse, but hopefully I will find a good med soon which will work, so I don’t have to keep getting used to new meds and adjusting to new effects. Thanks for caring, and I’ll definitely keep what you’ve said about changing therps or pdocs if I don’t start making some progress soon. Kylie. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I haven’t posted anything in almost 2 weeks now.  Perhaps I wanted to see if anyone would miss me….It doesn’t matter though.  I need to break my silence and delurk for a few minutes. I’ve been on the medication side-effects roller-coaster for a while now, but my body has finally adjusted to Effexor XR 150 mg.  Before then, I had days of vomiting, and one really scary day when I couldn’t stand up or walk without feeling like I’d pass out, and my hands and feet going numb.  I ended up at the hospital for that one, but there wasn’t anything they could do.  I just had to adjust. Leigh and I are still together, but our relationship has been weakened recently by lots of fights, all caused by my moods.  He’s trying to be there for me, and understand how I’m feeling, but he doesn’t think I’m doing enough to fight my depression, and that I’m just giving in and staying in bed too much.  I tell him that I can’t leave my little room to stay at his place overnight, like I do every Tuesday night, and he gets angry.  I just need some space sometimes, and my moods can change so rapidly I  just know I need to be alone sometimes because I don’t want to say something and hurt him.  I love him too much. I haven’t seen my therp or pdoc in weeks.  I’ve spoken to both of them briefly on the phone, but that’s it.  I was genuinely sick last Monday, so I cancelled my appointment, and spoke to my therp on the phone instead. This Monday though, I wasn’t too sick to go.  I just couldn’t leave here, so I rang up and said I was still sick.  I only spoke to the receptionist.  I know I should get out of here and go see someone, but I don’t know if I can. I’m so tired, and all I want to do is sleep.  Getting dressed and walking to the counselling centre seems like too much. I just can’t sleep properly.  I just want to feel rested, and to wake up and not still feel tired.  It would be great not to wake up heaps of times during the night.  I’m back taking valium again, and even that isn’t working.  The last two nights, I’ve taken more than I’m supposed to, hoping that an extra pill or two will be enough to let me sleep.  It still hasn’t worked.  I take the maximum doseage when I go to bed, and still wake up within a couple of hours.  So I take an extra pill, hoping it will help me get back to sleep and stay asleep.  But I still wake up again and again. After a while I take one more, just hoping I’ll be able to sleep, but nothing works.  And yes, I do realise how scary that sounds, but I’m not going to take too many. Well, I guess that’s all the ranting I have to do at the moment.  Sorry for not posting lately.  There’s been a lot I wanted to say, but I just haven’t been able to come out of my shell.  Figures the time I do come out and post again, it’s for totally selfish reasons. Hugs to everyone.  I’ve been lurking, and have been with you all in my heart. Kylie. — ***** "I may seem alright and smile when you leave, but my smiles are just a front." "I try" – Macy Gray website:  http://members.dcscomp.com.au/thomas *****

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I haven’t posted anything in almost 2 weeks now.  Perhaps I wanted to see if anyone would miss me….It doesn’t matter though.  I need to break my silence and delurk for a few minutes. i’ve missed you. sorry, i should have said something. i’m glad you posted though, and i’m sorry things are not better for you right now. keep hangin on, kylie.

Thanks.  I didn’t think anyone had noticed I was gone.  I was hoping someone would care and post an MIA or something, but I needed to talk so I decided that my pride isn’t that important after all, and I should do what’s right for me, which is posting when I need to. I’m still hanging on, even though it’s really tough some days.  I keep going because of the slight hope that things will get better, so I’m clinging to that as tight as I can. {{{{{{kylie}}}}}}

Thanks  Right back at ya. Kylie. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — "there is a sadness that grows up around me like a weed" (ani) http://shattering.org x-no-archive: yes in the headers —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

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I haven’t posted anything in almost 2 weeks now.  Perhaps I wanted to see if anyone would miss me….It doesn’t matter though.  I need to break my hugs to you too! Sfunny..  I was just thinking I hadn’t seen you for a while in asd… glad to see that you are okayish….

Thanks.  I didn’t think people would notice that I was gone. I know how you feel about tiredness…  I’m on 225mg daily of effexor, and i constantly feel very tired…..  I sleep ok, but i wake at 7am every day (((

I understand.  Last year, I had problems falling asleep.  Now, I can fall asleep fairly quickly, but I just can’t stay asleep.  It’s become normal for me to wake up every 2 or 3 hours for no reason at all. have you tried herbal sleeping pills???  They may mess up with your meds….  Not getting enough sleep is annoying….

My boyfriend gave me some herbal pills called Valerian which sometimes work, and they don’t seem to interfere with my meds, but the instructions say take 3-6 tablets at night to improve sleep, and it takes the full 6 to have any effect at all for me, so I’m going through the bottle very quickly, and they’re expensive.  Unfortunatly I’m on a limited budget, so that has to be a consideration. Have you mentioned your sleeping problems to your GP/therapist???

Heaps of times.  They keep telling me the antidepressants or the valium will work, but since it’s becoming more and more obvious that they aren’t, hopefully they’ll decide to try something else. Don’t worry for posting for selfish reasons….  you have helped us loads of times in the past, so it’s time that we helped you….

I suppose…..It still feels like I’m being selfish though. Take care of yourself you hear???

I hear, and I’m trying. Brian… Pooh…  Something stinks in my room….  Better get the hoover out!!!

hehehehe Thanks Brian, Kylie. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – /~~ The Depressed Nudist ~~

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CAREFUL WITH THE VALIUM. It is a muscle relaxant. And your Heart is a MUSCLE. I do hope you find something to help you get some sleep. Have you tried Ambien or Deseryl? I flip and flop like a fish out of water at times when i try to sleep at night, i have been meaning to go to a sleep clinic. If you constantly wake up, you will never get into your REM stage of sleep and you will feel tired all of the time. I hope that you are doing better. Sincerely, Trish

Thanks Trish. I know it was stupid to take that much Valium.  The only good thing was that I spaced the pills out through the night, rather than taking double my maximum dose all at once.  I’m just willing to try anything if it means I’ll get a good nights sleep, and not constantly feel exhausted.  I had no other intentions. I’m feeling a little bit better at the moment, but I hope stress doesn’t kick in too badly with my exams approaching, because I know how much that effects me.  I’m just hanging in there and hoping that my pdoc will have some new suggestions when I see him next week. Again, thanks for your concern.  I know it was a mistake, and I won’t experiment with my valium doseage again. Kylie.

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I also have been having weird and bad dreams again.

Are you sharing all your dreams with Terry? Is he interested, or bored? If he is bored, you could tell me instead. I could be your new husband for that purpose, until Jun.05 anyway.

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<<I can’t access my web based mail, only the account and newsgroups I have set up through Outlook Express. Did you get the e-mail I sent you on May.05&06?

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<<I can fall asleep fairly quickly, but I just can’t stay asleep. It’s become normal for me to wake up every 2 or 3 hours for no reason at all. I’m that way normally. If it’s dark at night, I fall back to sleep each time, but if I go to bed really late at night, then when it’s already morning light and I wake up I can’t get back to sleep. By the way, it’s 3AM now, which means I am going to get only 2.5 hours sleep before first light wakes me up and I can’t get back to sleep, shit!

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little mouse said: <<I haven’t posted anything in almost 2 weeks now. Perhaps I wanted to see if anyone would miss me. Last Fall we were exchanging e-mail. I was encouraging you to say ‘hi’ to people etc. to overcome shyness. Apparently my advice worked, because you met your sweetheart ‘Leigh’ and ended your virginity with him. But when I e-mailed you a few weeks ago because you were hurting so bad and I wanted to help you, you ignored my e-mail, never replied. What’s wrong with you? <<Leigh and I are still together, but our relationship has been weakened recently by lots of fights, all caused by my moods. Oh, that’s so sad. I was so happy for you when you found Leigh. Leigh, if you are reading this, when she’s depressed DON’T fight with her, just hold her in your arms and let her know you love her, and ignore anything she says that seems to come from her depression. Don’t let her bad mood sucker you into a fight with her. Just give her the love she deserves, and which I know you want to give her but she resists it. Give it anyway, even if she says no sometimes. Let her know you love her in sickness and in health, for better or for worse, unconditionally. If you don’t actually love her like that, send me private e-mail so we can discuss it without her eavesdropping on it (remove my "shell." to get correct address). <<He’s trying to be there for me, and understand how I’m feeling, but he doesn’t think I’m doing enough to fight my depression, and that I’m just giving in and staying in bed too much.  I tell him that I can’t leave my little room to stay at his place overnight, like I do every Tuesday night, and he gets angry. Leigh, she can’t come to your place, she’s too emotionally low. You need to go to her place and stay with her. When she feels better THEN she can come to your place again. Don’t get angry at her for being lazy at times like this, you hear?? I cared about her before you even met her, and I still care about her, and I’m not going to let you treat her bad in her time of need. <<I just need some space sometimes, and my moods can change so rapidly I  just know I need to be alone sometimes because I don’t want to say something and hurt him.  I love him too much. No, don’t do that! He loves you and wants to help you. Don’t turn him away. He’ll be hurt more by not being allowed to be with you and help you, and worry if you’ll commit suicide while he’s gone, than any trivial hurt from something that "hurts" him. Please don’t turn him away if he wants to help you get through this. Please don’t worry about saying something to hurt him. Please listen to my advice. <<There’s been a lot I wanted to say, but I just haven’t been able to come out of my shell. Back to shy like you were last Summer? I got that way myself from August to early April, due to depression caused by SweetPest’s ending our friendship and nobody else in Real Life ever wanting me. So I understand. But if you let Leigh be with you almost all the time, and let him hug and kiss you many hours per day, you won’t get so depressed as I was totally alone with not a single person ever calling or visiting to check if I was alive much less feeling OK. <<Figures the time I do come out and post again, it’s for totally selfish reasons. That’s fine with me. You need help right now. My help is yours.

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I haven’t posted anything in almost 2 weeks now.  Perhaps I wanted to see if anyone would miss me….It doesn’t matter though.  I need to break my silence and delurk for a few minutes. I’ve been on the medication side-effects roller-coaster for a while now, but my body has finally adjusted to Effexor XR 150 mg.  Before then, I had days of vomiting, and one really scary day when I couldn’t stand up or walk without feeling like I’d pass out, and my hands and feet going numb.  I ended up at the hospital for that one, but there wasn’t anything they could do.  I just had to adjust. Leigh and I are still together, but our relationship has been weakened recently by lots of fights, all caused by my moods.  He’s trying to be there for me, and understand how I’m feeling, but he doesn’t think I’m doing enough to fight my depression, and that I’m just giving in and staying in bed too much.  I tell him that I can’t leave my little room to stay at his place overnight, like I do every Tuesday night, and he gets angry.  I just need some space sometimes, and my moods can change so rapidly I  just know I need to be alone sometimes because I don’t want to say something and hurt him.  I love him too much. I haven’t seen my therp or pdoc in weeks.  I’ve spoken to both of them briefly on the phone, but that’s it.  I was genuinely sick last Monday, so I cancelled my appointment, and spoke to my therp on the phone instead.  This Monday though, I wasn’t too sick to go.  I just couldn’t leave here, so I rang up and said I was still sick.  I only spoke to the receptionist.  I know I should get out of here and go see someone, but I don’t know if I can. I’m so tired, and all I want to do is sleep.  Getting dressed and walking to the counselling centre seems like too much. I just can’t sleep properly.  I just want to feel rested, and to wake up and not still feel tired.  It would be great not to wake up heaps of times during the night.  I’m back taking valium again, and even that isn’t working.  The last two nights, I’ve taken more than I’m supposed to, hoping that an extra pill or two will be enough to let me sleep.  It still hasn’t worked.  I take the maximum doseage when I go to bed, and still wake up within a couple of hours.  So I take an extra pill, hoping it will help me get back to sleep and stay asleep.  But I still wake up again and again. After a while I take one more, just hoping I’ll be able to sleep, but nothing works.  And yes, I do realise how scary that sounds, but I’m not going to take too many. Well, I guess that’s all the ranting I have to do at the moment.  Sorry for not posting lately.  There’s been a lot I wanted to say, but I just haven’t been able to come out of my shell.  Figures the time I do come out and post again, it’s for totally selfish reasons. Hugs to everyone.  I’ve been lurking, and have been with you all in my heart. Kylie. — ***** "I may seem alright and smile when you leave, but my smiles are just a front." "I try" – Macy Gray website:  http://members.dcscomp.com.au/thomas *****

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It sure sounds like you’ve been through an unbelievable amount of shit.  I can’t even imagine.  I have depression and have been "lucky" – I found a great shrink many years ago who knew what she was doing about medication and put me on Parnate, which I have been taking for almost 10 years.  I also have seen her on a regular basis for psychotherapy.  It sound horrible that you had to experience these kind of side effects on your medication.  A competent doctor should work with you to find the best medicine for you which does not have those kind of effects.  There are so many medications available now – for me, I only got real help when I went to a shrink who was trained in psychopharmocology.  It was a great combination – she knew everything about the medicines and was a great psychotherapist.  There are a lot of people out there like that.  Maybe you could find a better shrink/therapist who would work more closely with you to get the right meds which don’t fuck up your body.  Good luck.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I haven’t posted anything in almost 2 weeks now.  Perhaps I wanted to see if anyone would miss me….It doesn’t matter though.  I need to break my silence and delurk for a few minutes. I’ve been on the medication side-effects roller-coaster for a while now, but my body has finally adjusted to Effexor XR 150 mg.  Before then, I had days of vomiting, and one really scary day when I couldn’t stand up or walk without feeling like I’d pass out, and my hands and feet going numb.  I ended up at the hospital for that one, but there wasn’t anything they could do.  I just had to adjust. Leigh and I are still together, but our relationship has been weakened recently by lots of fights, all caused by my moods.  He’s trying to be there for me, and understand how I’m feeling, but he doesn’t think I’m doing enough to fight my depression, and that I’m just giving in and staying in bed too much.  I tell him that I can’t leave my little room to stay at his place overnight, like I do every Tuesday night, and he gets angry.  I just need some space sometimes, and my moods can change so rapidly I  just know I need to be alone sometimes because I don’t want to say something and hurt him.  I love him too much. I haven’t seen my therp or pdoc in weeks.  I’ve spoken to both of them briefly on the phone, but that’s it.  I was genuinely sick last Monday, so I cancelled my appointment, and spoke to my therp on the phone instead. This Monday though, I wasn’t too sick to go.  I just couldn’t leave here, so I rang up and said I was still sick.  I only spoke to the receptionist.  I know I should get out of here and go see someone, but I don’t know if I can. I’m so tired, and all I want to do is sleep.  Getting dressed and walking to the counselling centre seems like too much. I just can’t sleep properly.  I just want to feel rested, and to wake up and not still feel tired.  It would be great not to wake up heaps of times during the night.  I’m back taking valium again, and even that isn’t working.  The last two nights, I’ve taken more than I’m supposed to, hoping that an extra pill or two will be enough to let me sleep.  It still hasn’t worked.  I take the maximum doseage when I go to bed, and still wake up within a couple of hours.  So I take an extra pill, hoping it will help me get back to sleep and stay asleep.  But I still wake up again and again. After a while I take one more, just hoping I’ll be able to sleep, but nothing works.  And yes, I do realise how scary that sounds, but I’m not going to take too many. Well, I guess that’s all the ranting I have to do at the moment.  Sorry for not posting lately.  There’s been a lot I wanted to say, but I just haven’t been able to come out of my shell.  Figures the time I do come out and post again, it’s for totally selfish reasons. Hugs to everyone.  I’ve been lurking, and have been with you all in my heart. Kylie. — ***** "I may seem alright and smile when you leave, but my smiles are just a front." "I try" – Macy Gray website:  http://members.dcscomp.com.au/thomas *****

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Question:

I have a   ‘depersonalization’ disorder, which may stem from stress , no panic attacks, moderate anxiety.  I’m 40 years old and I have never taken any medications for my psyche. I will be taking Prozac soon in a depersonalization study. On this newsgroup however,  Paxil seems to be all the rage. Has it supplanted Prozac?  What are the pros and cons of each? Is one better then the other?

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I have a   ‘depersonalization’ disorder, which may stem from stress , no panic attacks, moderate anxiety.  I’m 40 years old and I have never taken any medications for my psyche. I will be taking Prozac soon in a depersonalization study. On this newsgroup however,  Paxil seems to be all the rage. Has it supplanted Prozac?  What are the pros and cons of each? Is one better then the other?

Like all medications, Paxil and Prozac work differently for different people. Probably why Paxil features more here than Prozac or Zoloft is that its manufacturers have had it tested and approved for use in anxiety cases – thus doctors tend to reach for it first. However, that *doesn’t* mean it is more effective, simply that SmithKline Beecham decided to put it through the approval process so they could sell it for that use. Your doctor will have prescribed you Prozac because s/he thinks it’s worth trying. But there’s no way anyone can be sure and if you’d started with Paxil you might well have ended-up on Prozac anyway. It’s suck it and see, I’m afraid – literally! — Gary Cooper

Response:

I don’t know what the SSRIs are doing in "the real world", but in 1993 when my psychiatrist put me on Zoloft, he said of the three SSRIs then available, Paxil was the most sedating, Prozac the most stimulating, and Zoloft was somewhere between those two. Therefore he suggested Zoloft. Naturally I followed his advice and glad I did. The Zoloft has never caused sedation or stimulation in me. Even though psych meds are YMMV, etc, etc, there are valid generalizations that can be made IMHO. Chip

Chip Thanks for your information.  What do you mean by stimulating. When you started Zoloft did you have anxiety ?  My problem is anxiety and OCB. I tried paxil and gained tons of weight but felt great. I was sleeping well (something I never did). I was very very lazy.  I went off paxil because of the weight gain, but I feel I need to get back on the SSRIs again. I’m thinking Prozac or Zoloft. I’v heard of some strange side effects with Zoloft though, like eye twitching, having trouble peeing and so on.  Did you exeperience any side effects that you couldn’t cope with? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (PST+9) I don’t think that, in the real world, Prozac has a very good track record when used for anxiety. It is generally much more anxiety-provoking than Paxil, and chances are that you will experience the same adverse effects anyway, especially with respect to sexual problems. Of course, you will never know for sure unless you try it. Pierre In the real world Prozac has about the same track record for PAD as the other SSRI’s. I would definitely not say that it’s more anxiety-provoking than Paxil. It’s very much an YMMV thing. I myself had good results with Prozac but had to stop it after a year or so because of a rare side effect. Of the SSRI’s Luvox seems to give somewhat lesser problems with sexual dysfunction but low dose Prozac (10 mg) chances are that one may not experience it either. Because all AD’s tend to cause heigthened anxiety and some other weird side effect in the beginning it is advisable to *start low and go slow*: as Prozac is available in lquid form it’s possible to start it at 2,5 mgs and then up it with 2,5 mg every week. Otherwise (tabs) 5 mg is rather safe too. Philip I was on Paxil for 9 months (for anxiety) and loved it – except for the weight gain and sexual disfunction. I want to try Prozac. Has anyone had any good results from using it for anxiety? What are the side effects that you experieced? Please help! I am dying to get back on an SSRI but I want to take the right one. Thanks for any help. ..Tania Before you buy.

Before you buy.

Response:

If you have OCD, any of the SSRIs or Anafranil (more side effects, but possibly more effective), are supposed to be drugs of choice.  Often they have to be augmented with BuSpar or Klonopin or an "antipsychotic". OCD is hard to treat, but any improvement is appreciated by most patients. Chip

Hi Chip,  My OCD was not "hard to treat". The Paxil knocked it right out and even switching to Zoloft it did not return. Also, I am wondering what "antipsychotic" you are referring to as a cure for OCD?? Maybe mine’s (OCD) just not that big of a deal. You might want to throw in a YMMV on these two. I know mine did if what you say is true. Can someone enlighten me?  P.S. Also I hear more about xanax or klon. being used as an augment med with SSRIs…….is Buspar used as well? I had zero luck with Buspar too. YMMV. Regards, Miriam

Response:

Hi Miriam, I’m glad you responded to both meds you mentioned for OCD. Often OCD is difficult to treat (i.e. get a good response from meds), and larger doses of the SSRIs may have to be used (for example, up to 80 mg/day of Prozac). I have also read that SSRIs may have to be augmented with other med(s) to get a good response in OCD, such as BuSpar, up to 60 mg/day. Many meds have been used attempting to augment SSRIs for OCD, including Klonopin, and an antipsychotic (pimozide has been used). None of these meds "cure" OCD, but they can reduce symptoms. I’m on Zoloft and Klonopin for PD with good response for the PD, but still have mild OC symptoms such as checking and doubt. Chip

If you have OCD, any of the SSRIs or Anafranil (more side effects, but possibly more effective), are supposed to be drugs of choice. Often they have to be augmented with BuSpar or Klonopin or an "antipsychotic". OCD is hard to treat, but any improvement is appreciated by most patients. Chip Hi Chip,

Question:

Hi, There is no physical test (blood, etc.) that can determine if you have OCD.  The only way is to describe your symptoms and feelings to the pdoc.  You may want to schedule a normal exam with your regular doctor to rule out any other physical problems. That would be up to you. A Zoloft/Xanax combination would be a good first choice for someone with OCD or OCD like tendencies. Why do you think you may have OCD? The symptoms you describe below could be OCD, or they might be a lot of other things.  Are your thoughts consistently about "bad" things that may happen, or are they "going over" everyday events and worries?  Do you repeat the same thought over and over or do you think about a lot of different things? Do you have any physical compulsions like checking and rechecking things, or hoarding things? I’m kind of interested in this sort of stuff, because I have OC tendencies a lot of times, but I don’t believe I have OCD. I believe I may have a personality disorder that is kind of similar to OCD but is not the same. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have what i though was anxiety attacks.  as i have read up on things it appears i have many similarities with OCD.  i have been going to a phsychiatrist but he wasn’t really the one for me.  he imediatly put me on Zoloft, with out any tests or checkups.  I have reaccurring thoughts about everything.  i just can’t seem to "get over things". i constantly concentrate on physical flaws i feel i have.  i think the biggest problem is dealing with things.  i can’t seem to think clearly or objectively.  my thoughts are constantly crowded with the same thoughts over and over.  the phsychiatrist also gave me xanax, which helps alot, but i have heard bad things about the drug like depression and dependance.  can someone please give me some insight.  anything would be good right now. — Posted via Talkway – http://www.talkway.com Exchange ideas on practically anything ™.

Response:

I have what i though was anxiety attacks.  as i have read up on things it appears i have many similarities with OCD.  i have been going to a phsychiatrist but he wasn’t really the one for me.

Find another pdoc if you aren`t happy with this one. Only a pdoc can diagnosis you. OCD is a anxiety disorder, and you can have panic disorder and OCD at the same time, that is why you need to see a new doctor and get diagnosed. he imediatly put me on Zoloft, with out any tests or checkups.

A pdoc is not going to test you or do a checkup on you. He will diagnosis you by what you tell him. It is always a good idea to go to a medical doctor for a complete physical and to make sure there is no physical reason for your symptoms. A Pdoc will not do this for you. Zoloft can be quite effective for anxiety and OCD. It does take 6 to 8 weeks to become effective though. I have reaccurring thoughts about everything.  i just can’t seem to "get over things". i constantly concentrate on physical flaws i feel i have.  i think the biggest problem is dealing with things.  i can’t seem to think clearly or objectively.  my thoughts are constantly crowded with the same thoughts over and over.  the phsychiatrist also gave me xanax, which helps alot, but i have heard bad things about the drug like depression and dependance.  can someone please give me some insight.  anything would be good right now.

It is good to take the Xanax while weaning on the Zoloft. I haven`t seen many people here complain of depression while on Xanax, and if that were to happen there are other benzo`s you can take. You will become dependent on the Zoloft as well as the Xanax, and all that means is you will have to stop the meds slowly when the time comes. Many meds cause a physical dependency and this shouldn`t be confused with *addiction*. If you use the Xanax as prescribed by your doctor you will not get addicted to it. Take care!!!! Jackie

Response:

I have what i though was anxiety attacks.  as i have read up on things it appears i have many similarities with OCD.  i have been going to a phsychiatrist but he wasn’t really the one for me.  he imediatly put me on Zoloft, with out any tests or checkups.  I have reaccurring thoughts about everything.  i just can’t seem to "get over things". i constantly concentrate on physical flaws i feel i have.  i think the biggest problem is dealing with things.  i can’t seem to think clearly or objectively.  my thoughts are constantly crowded with the same thoughts over and over.  the phsychiatrist also gave me xanax, which helps alot, but i have heard bad things about the drug like depression and dependance.  can someone please give me some insight.  anything would be good right now. — Posted via Talkway – http://www.talkway.com Exchange ideas on practically anything ™.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I have what i though was anxiety attacks.  as i have read up on things it appears i have many similarities with OCD.  i have been going to a phsychiatrist but he wasn’t really the one for me.  he imediatly put me on Zoloft, with out any tests or checkups.  I have reaccurring thoughts about everything.  i just can’t seem to "get over things". i constantly concentrate on physical flaws i feel i have.  i think the biggest problem is dealing with things.  i can’t seem to think clearly or objectively.  my thoughts are constantly crowded with the same thoughts over and over.  the phsychiatrist also gave me xanax, which helps alot, but i have heard bad things about the drug like depression and dependance.  can someone please give me some insight.  anything would be good right now. — Posted via Talkway – http://www.talkway.com Exchange ideas on practically anything ™.

Hi, How long have you been on the zoloft? I’m pretty sure that SSRI’s are standard treatment for OCD as well as anxiety. I think luvox is used frequently for OCD. Sometimes it takes weeks for an AD to kick in.  I don’t think I have OCD, but being on an SSRI has eliminated 99% of my worries, and ruminations. Haven’t heard of too many people here depressed from xanax. It didn’t affect me that way.   If you are worried about dependence on xanax, there are ways to taper off of it.  If your still having the recurring thoughts/anxiety while on zoloft after 8 weeks, it might not be the correct med for you. Maria

Response:

OCD is an anxiety disorder.  Panic disorder,  post-traumatic stress disorder, phobias, generalized anxiety disorder are all ANXIETY DISORDERS.

Response:

Question:

I took Betaseron for a year and a half.  The flu-like symptoms went away  (fortunate, since I got chills so bad I had to buy a Polarfleece outfit to  sleep in under 2 blankets and 2 quilts).  But the depression, which began only  on injection days, got worse and  never went away.  Only an MRI would show  whether the Beta was doing its job.  I assume it was, but that wouldn’t do me  any good if I killed myself.  I tried Prozac, Zoloft, Effexor–had a variety  of unpleasant side effects.  I know depression can be an MS symptom, but this  did seem drug related, so I finally decided I’d rather live with the MS, quit  the Beta.  Took a year to pull out of scary depression.  I’m doing pretty well  now.    I gather that Betaseron does work for some (many?) people but I’ve felt that  it’s potential for depression has been understated.

Response:

Hi Sue! I have been on Betaseron for over 2 years now.  I didn’t take any prednisone  when I started it, but I do take it when my symptoms get worse.  Yeah, that  stuff is no fun at all! I have not had the "flu-like" symptoms since the first month I was on  Betaseron. My injection site problems have been minimal.  I rub aloe vera cream with  vitamins A, D, and E on my legs and stomach.  For the past 2 months, I have  convinced my boyfriend to help me inject my "hip" area–some word they came up  with for butt!  I am giving my other spots a rest this way.  The redness is  going away, and I hope my skin will be a little more receptive to the  injections. I have had what I call "mini-attacks" since I have been on the  Betaseron–nothing like the major ones I experienced before.  Is it the drug?  Who knows! It may not be helping me at all, or it could be what is keeping me  walking (not very well, but, hey, I’ll take it!) Best of luck in whatever you decide to do! Sylvia

Response:

I’m seriously considering taking one of the three drugs – betaseron, copaxone or avenox.  I have had the remitting kind of MS for 16 years.  I have had some permanent damage from many of the attacks.  I would like to ask the following questions of people who have been on these drugs. 1.  For those on betaseron or avenox – did you take steroids for the first  3 months?  I’m concerned about getting hyper,  nervous and depressed because that is what has happened in the past when I’ve been on prednisone.     Was there relief from your MS symptoms while on betaseron or avenox?     Was the improvement worth having all the flu-like symptoms, pain of shots,          etc.? 2.  For those on copaxone – was there any relief from  MS symptoms? 3.  Why do you feel that being on any of these three drugs is worth experiencing the side effects? Thanks for your help  Sue

Response:

Sue wrote:

I’m seriously considering taking one of the three drugs – 1.  For those on betaseron or avenox – did you take steroids for the first 3 months?      Was there relief from your MS symptoms while on betaseron or avenox?    Was the improvement worth having all the flu-like symptoms, pain of shots,          etc.?

I was on the study for Avonex for 2 years and on Betaseron for 2+ years and I didn’t have to take steroids for either one of them.  I myself got no relief while on either drug.  From what I understand there is not supposed to be any inprovement while on these drugs, just no worsening.

3.  Why do you feel that being on any of these three drugs is worth experiencing the side effects?

While I did not feel any different being on either dug, a few months after going off each one I had an exacerbation.  So I guess they must have been doing something right. I hope this answers some of your questions, Marcy http://members.aol.com/marcyrw2/MS.html

Response:

Suepinca <suepi…@aol.com

wrote in article

<19970929004601.UAA15…@ladder01.news.aol.com

… I’m seriously considering taking one of the three drugs – betaseron, copaxone or avenox.  

<snip

Sue,  I just started Avonex as I was starting to have symptoms that interfered with me doing my work at the office – To me Avonex was recommended and I also was happier injecting once a week rather than injecting every two days with Beta.  I currently am set to have 1 day of solu-medrol IV drip each month and the avonex injections weekly.  The first time I had horrible after effects from the avonex, second time I increased the tylenol to 4 doses (2 hrs before shot, at time of shot & twice more before retiring to bed) and had no after effects from the shot that time.   I will not know if the Avonex is working for sure, but I am hoping it will slow down the progression.  The solu-medrol is to help with some of my current numbness and I believe it is helping a little.  Good luck in your decision. PS I do not mind self-injecting the Avonex

Response:

Hi! I’ve been on Betaseron just over a year. At first I did quite well with

the

self injections. I take Baclofen, Amitryptiline and Paxil, too. I only

started

taking the Paxil (antidepressent) a few months ago. About 6 months

into the

therapy I began having anxiety attacks when I tried to inject. My

husband still

has to inject me but i don’t get upset anymore. I feel the

medicine has kept me

from having severe symtoms. I’ve had mild ones when

I’ve overdone. On the

subject of side effects; I found that if I take two

ibuprofen tablets when I

get my shot, I suffer no side effects. I have

tested this theory and find that

if I don’t take the ibuprofen, I get the

aches & fever. I’d like to switch to

Avonex for the convenience and fewer

injection sights (getting scar tissue) but

those two free months are a

powerful incentive. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Polly

In article <342fa40e.6874…@news.jersey.net

, re…@usa.net wrote: Sue, I haven’t been on Avonex for long enough to know if it’s helping (5 weeks, after 3 months of Betaseron). I also haven’t had active MS enough to know. I had one attack prior to staring Betaseron, and another three months into the treatment. I think you have to take it longer than that to see results. I received IV prednisone with an oral taper (total time, 2 weeks) for both attacks. The side effects gradually disappeared once I stopped the steroids, and my symptoms completely cleared the first time. I am now waiting for the numbness in my right side to completely clear; it’s gradually improving. My understanding of both Avonex and Betaseron is that they won’t make you feel better, but will decrease the number and severity attacks. Future MRIs should show fewer or no plaques have formed. Both are suppposedly equally effective, but I switched to Avonex because it’s more convenient, once a week rather than every other day, and it doesn’t leave any injection site marks. Beta leaves pinkish marks on some spots that take a long time to disappear. I continued Avonex while on steroids and experienced no adverse effects. I found the side effects about equal with both, and that is, the flu-like symptoms subside after a month or so of injections. Although the Avonex needle is longer and it goes into your muscle, rather than under the skin with Beta, I find no difference in pain sensation between the two. It just feels like a brief pin stick, and I barely notice it now when the needle goes in. I think it’s worth a try, if it will prevent future attacks and nerve damage. Beta and Avonex are both based on interferons that occur naturally in the body. I get blood tests every few months to make sure no damage is being done to my stem. I have also improved my diet, am using some herbal supplements, and am on a "maintenance" program of exercises prescribed by a physical therapist to keep me as mobile as possible. I’m seriously considering taking one of the three drugs – betaseron, copaxone or avenox.  I have had the remitting kind of MS for 16 years.  I have had some permanent damage from many of the attacks.  I would like to ask the following questions of people who have been on these drugs. 1.  For those on betaseron or avenox – did you take steroids for the first 3 months?  I’m concerned about getting hyper,  nervous and depressed because that is what has happened in the past when I’ve been on prednisone.    Was there relief from your MS symptoms while on betaseron or avenox?    Was the improvement worth having all the flu-like symptoms, pain of shots,          etc.? 2.  For those on copaxone – was there any relief from  MS symptoms? 3.  Why do you feel that being on any of these three drugs is worth experiencing the side effects?    ——————————————————    ~ ~      Reesa Marchetti, Editor-Writer-Musician-Web Author     `O O^         re…@usa.net   http://www.jersey.net/~reesa    <                 …COol MOther    ^^

Response:

Sue, I haven’t been on Avonex for long enough to know if it’s helping (5 weeks, after 3 months of Betaseron). I also haven’t had active MS enough to know. I had one attack prior to staring Betaseron, and another three months into the treatment. I think you have to take it longer than that to see results. I received IV prednisone with an oral taper (total time, 2 weeks) for both attacks. The side effects gradually disappeared once I stopped the steroids, and my symptoms completely cleared the first time. I am now waiting for the numbness in my right side to completely clear; it’s gradually improving. My understanding of both Avonex and Betaseron is that they won’t make you feel better, but will decrease the number and severity attacks. Future MRIs should show fewer or no plaques have formed. Both are suppposedly equally effective, but I switched to Avonex because it’s more convenient, once a week rather than every other day, and it doesn’t leave any injection site marks. Beta leaves pinkish marks on some spots that take a long time to disappear. I continued Avonex while on steroids and experienced no adverse effects. I found the side effects about equal with both, and that is, the flu-like symptoms subside after a month or so of injections. Although the Avonex needle is longer and it goes into your muscle, rather than under the skin with Beta, I find no difference in pain sensation between the two. It just feels like a brief pin stick, and I barely notice it now when the needle goes in. I think it’s worth a try, if it will prevent future attacks and nerve damage. Beta and Avonex are both based on interferons that occur naturally in the body. I get blood tests every few months to make sure no damage is being done to my stem. I have also improved my diet, am using some herbal supplements, and am on a "maintenance" program of exercises prescribed by a physical therapist to keep me as mobile as possible.

I’m seriously considering taking one of the three drugs – betaseron, copaxone or avenox.  I have had the remitting kind of MS for 16 years.  I have had some permanent damage from many of the attacks.  I would like to ask the following questions of people who have been on these drugs. 1.  For those on betaseron or avenox – did you take steroids for the first 3 months?  I’m concerned about getting hyper,  nervous and depressed because that is what has happened in the past when I’ve been on prednisone.    Was there relief from your MS symptoms while on betaseron or avenox?    Was the improvement worth having all the flu-like symptoms, pain of shots,          etc.? 2.  For those on copaxone – was there any relief from  MS symptoms? 3.  Why do you feel that being on any of these three drugs is worth experiencing the side effects?

   ——————————————————    ~ ~      Reesa Marchetti, Editor-Writer-Musician-Web Author     `O O^         re…@usa.net   http://www.jersey.net/~reesa    <                      …COol MOther    ^^                    

Response: