ONe doc told me to put my inhalers in my mouth when i use them…..another told me not…..i would appreciate if others would share what their docs said!!
My doctor want wants a spacer used.
ONe doc told me to put my inhalers in my mouth when i use them…..another told me not…..i would appreciate if others would share what their docs said!!
Depending on the type of inhaler you’re using, you might want to consider a "spacer" device. I’m surprised neither doc actually mentioned them ! Chris — Chris King | Information provided here should NOT be used http://www.csking.demon.co.uk | practitioner.
If you do not have a spacer, then out. place the mouthpiece about two to three fingers away from the mouth and proceed. The idea is to slow the delivery of the aerosol so as not to just coat the inside of the mouth… basically what a straight spacer does. With less medication coating the mouth, the more you’re able to take in.
ONe doc told me to put my inhalers in my mouth when i use them…..another told me not…..i would appreciate if others would share what their docs said!!
Inhalers come with patient instructions so the first thing to do is read them. Different kinds of inhalers may be used differently. Probably the most common inhaler type at the moment is the MDI or metered-dose inhaler. There is more than one correct technique; theoretically spraying a short distance outside the mouth results in better aersolization, but aim is critical and its hard to get the spray going in the right direction. MDI instructions usually show the inhaler being inserted in the mouth since its easier to aim. The best way with an MDI is to use a spacer, like an AeroChamber–this results in good aersolization with minimum side effects due to overspray. The breath-actuated inhalers, like the Autohaler and DPI (dry powder inhaler), like the turbuhaler, require the mouthpace be inserted in the mouth to get proper suction. Also in general spacers can not be used with this type of inhaler. See: http://www.lung.ca/asthma/manage/devices.html Inhalation Devices (MDI, DPI, Nebulizer) Canada http://www.lung.ca/devices/mdi.html Proper Use of MDIs Canada http://www.caritas.ab.ca/~ther/respcare/asthma/medicat.html SPACER MED ADMINISTRATION (MDI) Canada http://www.njc.org/MFhtml/AER_MF.html Using an Aerochamber
I have had asthma since birth, and it was primarily caused by seasonal allergies. ….. in the past year have virtually eliminated my asthma and use of all prescription drugs by using some mega-quality supplements, followed by huge doses of vitamin C and anti-oxidants and grape seed extract……
That sounds like me except I’ve kept a pretty serious regimen of vitamins and exercise without the same auspicious results. I was able to quit taking prescription drugs and inhalers due to a certain non-prescription medication called Haysma. That is until it suddenly dissapeared completely from the shelves of every store (it was sold in most regular grocery stores as well as drug stores) in Salt Lake City. From what I’ve been unofficially informed, it was banned in S.L. & maybe all of Utah because somebody in our LDS-influenced legislature thought it contained harmful substances, esp. caffeine. This isn’t the first time something that is practically benign in the "real" world was 86′d by our gov. Except this time it has caused me to either put up with attacks or go back to the horrible prescription drugs and/or inhalers I thought I was free from. I’m quite sure that Haysma–there’s probably other comparable products, but this is the only one ever sold around here; because it was supposed to be harmless–is not banned anywhere else. The company, also called Haysma Inc, is still going strong according to the stock market reports. So if anyone out there in non-Mormon land knows where or how I can find it, I’d greatly appreciate an e-mail. Thanks, Mike S.W.
That sounds like me except I’ve kept a pretty serious regimen of vitamins and exercise without the same auspicious results. I was able to quit taking prescription drugs and inhalers due to a certain non-prescription medication called Haysma. That is until it suddenly dissapeared completely from the shelves of every store (it was sold in most regular grocery stores as well as drug stores) in Salt Lake City. From what I’ve been unofficially informed, it was banned in S.L. & maybe all of Utah because somebody in our LDS-influenced legislature thought it contained harmful substances, esp. caffeine.
According to a quick search I did haysma is listed as containing ephedrine. The drug ephedrine has been associated with so many serious and fatal reactions that the FDA proposed strict limits on its usage. These limits would have effectively banned many OTC and ‘alternative’ remedies. (These limits were dropped by the FDA after Congressional pressure.) Due to the presence of known dangers and the ability of lobbyists to prevent federal safety standards, many states have adopted the proposed FDA safety standards on their own. BTW, mixing ephedrine and caffeine is a very, very bad idea. If haysma does in fact contain both then it is a good thing it was removed from the shelves. "Usenet is like a herd of performing elephants with diarrhea — massive, diffucult to redirect, awe-inspiring, entertaining, and a source of mind boggling amounts of excrement when you least expect it." Gene Spafford 1992
Another option for manufacturers is to petition FDA, asking the agency to establish the conditions under which the new dietary ingredient would reasonably be expected to be safe. To date, FDA’s Center for Food Safety and Applied Nutrition has received no such petitions. Under DSHEA, once a dietary supplement is marketed, FDA has the responsibility for showing that a dietary supplement is unsafe before it can take action to restrict the product’s use. This was the case when, in June 1997, FDA proposed, among other things, to limit the amount of ephedrine alkaloids in dietary supplements (marketed as ephedra, Ma huang, Chinese ephedra, and epitonin, for example) and provide warnings to consumers about hazards associated with use of dietary supplements containing the ingredients. The hazards ranged from nervousness, dizziness, and changes in blood pressure and heart rate to chest pain, heart attack, hepatitis, stroke, seizures, psychosis, and death. The proposal stemmed from FDA’s review of adverse event reports it had received, scientific literature, and public comments. FDA has received many comments on the 1997 proposal and was reviewing them at press time. Besides FDA, individual states can take steps to restrict or stop the sale of potentially harmful dietary supplements within their jurisdictions. For example, Florida has banned some ephedra-containing products, and other states have said they are considering similar action. Also, the industry strives to regulate itself, the Council for Responsible Nutrition’s Cordaro says. He cites the GMPs that his trade group and others developed for their member companies. FDA is reviewing these GMPs as it considers whether to pursue mandatory industry-wide GMPs. Another example of self-regulation, Cordaro says, is the voluntary use of a warning about ephedra products that his organization drafted. He says that about 90 percent of U.S. manufacturers of products containing ephedra alkaloids now use this warning label. http://www.fda.gov/fdac/features/1998/598_guid.html Ephedra As you know, on June 4, 1997, FDA published in the Federal Register a proposed rule on Dietary Supplements Containing Ephedrine Alkaloids (62 FR 30678). There are a variety of opinions about the proposed rule and the direction the Agency should take. One cannot dispute, however, the shear volume of the reports of illness and injuries that FDA received reported to be associated with the use of dietary supplements suspected to contain ephedrine alkaloids. Between 1993 and mid-1996, FDA received about 1,600 AER’s reported to be associated with the use of dietary supplement products in general. Of these, over half of the AER’s were reported to be associated with the use of dietary supplements that contained, or were suspected to contain, ephedrine alkaloids. These adverse events tended to involve cardiovascular system effects and nervous system effects. FDA evaluated these reports and found that the single most common element was that the products contained, or were thought to contain, a source of ephedrine alkaloids (62 FR 30679). FDA used the information available in the approximately 600 AER’s that were in the Agency’s possession as of June 7, 1996, to describe patterns associated with these reports. A review of the demographic information showed that in over half of the reported adverse events, the injured party was under 40 years of age. Almost 75 percent of the adverse events were reported to occur in females, often using products promoted for weight loss (62 FR 30683). About 59 percent of the adverse events were reported to occur within 4 weeks of starting to use the product. About 14 percent of the reported adverse events occurred on the first day of using the dietary supplement and, in a few cases, on the initial use (62 FR 30684). Overall, the reported signs and symptoms associated with these AER’s included those in which clinically serious events occurred, including heart attack, stroke, psychoses, seizure, and in a few cases, death, as well as those with less clinical significance, including rapid and irregular heart rhythms, increased blood pressure, anxiety, nervousness, tremor, hyperactivity, and insomnia (62 FR 30683). The Agency recognized that these reports could be indicative of early warnings of serious cardiovascular or nervous system risks if product use were to continue. Notably, the information from these adverse events revealed consistent patterns of signs and symptoms in both healthy individuals and in those with underlying diseases or conditions. Many of these reported signs and symptoms occurred in young adults who generally would not have been expected to be at high risk for such conditions (e.g., heart attack and stroke). Included were the deaths of two young adult males in which the medical examiners attributed the cause of death to ephedrine toxicity (ARMS Nos. 10862 and 11134 at 62 FR 30720 and 30722, respectively). In some cases, particular events appeared to reflect individual sensitivities related to dose levels, frequency, or duration of use of ephedrine alkaloids (62 FR 30684). As depicted in Chart C, the ephedra AER’s generated an important "signal", but were just one small component (the "tip of the iceberg") of FDA’s overall analysis of the potential public health risk associated with this product. To better understand the nature and types of products associated with these AER’s, FDA conducted a review of the marketplace (62 FR 30679). Over a two-year period, FDA collected and analyzed over 25 dietary supplement products labeled as containing a known source of ephedrine alkaloids. FDA also searched the scientific literature for relevant clinical studies, case reports, and the expected physiologic and pharmacologic effects. In addition, FDA also convened an ad hoc working group of its Food Advisory Committee (Working Group) and its Food Advisory Committee to consider the public health problems associated with the use of ephedrine alkaloid-containing dietary supplements (62 FR 30680). In the proposed rule, FDA requested comments containing data, particularly clinical data, on the safety of the use of ephedrine alkaloids in dietary supplements. (62 FR 30694). As noted above, while the AER’s served as the warning signal of potential hazard associated with the use of dietary supplements containing ephedrine alkaloids, the Agency’s evaluation of those hazards was comprised of multiple sources of scientific information. This evaluation included the AER’s, a search of the scientific literature, published case reports, controlled clinical studies, and published reports of adverse events associated with traditional uses of ephedrine alkaloids. All of these sources of scientific information revealed a consistent pattern of cardiovascular and nervous system effects associated with ephedrine alkaloids. That view was affirmed by FDA’s Food Advisory Committee. http://www.fda.gov/ola/aems599.html
I have had asthma since birth, and it was primarily caused by seasonal allergies. It did however flare up at any time, often linked to strenuous exertion, temperature changes and stress. I have been on Tedral, Beclovent, Salbutamol, Ventolin and Flovent. I am now 40, and in the past year have virtually eliminated my asthma and use of all prescription drugs by using some mega-quality supplements, followed by huge doses of vitamin C and anti-oxidants and grape seed extract. The daily vitamin C doses for me (that my body can tolerate without any effects) are around 5000 milligrams. That can vary from person to person. I also made some minor diet changes in cutting back on dairy products and red meat. Hope this information helps. Eric
It seems like all the doctors are the same way with where they put the blame. As far as they see it, the meds don’t have any bad effects. My doctor is that way.
Get a new doctor. Chris Owens
Lisa, I was increased from 2 to 3 puffs twice daily of Flovent 44 about 3 months ago. Although I haven’t noticed increased cramping, the muscles in my lower legs and arms are very weak and feel like I’ve worked the muscles too hard (which I haven’t, unfortunately). Actually, they feel sort of like "spaghetti" at times. I have also gained about 10 pounds since the increase. What a drag! Have you experienced any muscle weakness? My doctor is always reluctant to "blame" oddities on my medicine.
Steroid use can cause upper limb weakness, both legs and arms. I lift weights and take potassium and calcium suppliments to counter this. Sue – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Patrice I am on Flovent 44 three puffs twice a day. I am having terrible cramping as of late. I used to be on Serevent that I know also caused cramping, and have since went off of it because of side effects. Now I am wondering if the inhaled steroids are causing this and if it is the particular brand I am on (Flovent) or if there is another type that doesn’t cause so much of this cramping. I am on Potassium, cacium, and magnesium supplements. I am wondering if I should switch, go off of the steroid, or what to do. I am also wondering if anyone else has noticed mood swings while on inhaled steriods. I noticed these symptoms increase after increasing from two puffs to three puffs twice a day. Any ideas will be appreciated. Lisa N
Smoke Often. Die Young.
Hello- your dose of flovent is VERY SMALL. I doubt it would cause those problems. Most of us complaining/talking about it are on 220, at least twice a day, sometimes four. Remember to use a spacer and rinse/garble your mouth out well after you take it, it can never hurt. -jenny I am on Flovent 44 three puffs twice a day. I am having terrible cramping as of late. I used to be on Serevent that I know also caused cramping, and have since went off of it because of side effects. Now I am wondering if the inhaled steroids are causing this and if it is the particular brand I am on (Flovent) or if there is another type that doesn’t cause so much of this cramping. I am on Potassium, cacium, and magnesium supplements. I am wondering if I should switch, go off of the steroid, or what to do. I am also wondering if anyone else has noticed mood swings while on inhaled steriods. I noticed these symptoms increase after increasing from two puffs to three puffs twice a day. Any ideas will be appreciated. Lisa N
Jennifer Gerbi http://www.students.uiuc.edu/~gerbi Univ. of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign 1-113 ESB (217)244-0332
Yes I have noticed muscle weakness!! I am going back to 2 puffs of Flovent, and like I said, I have cut out Serevent. I have just added Intal also, which I hope will help. My doctor does the same thing, but enough people here have written about all these side effects to prove to me it is the medicine. I have NEVER had cramps and muscle weakness in my life, I am 32 and healthy otherwise. And I have had all the strange symptoms for the past 8 months, the exact amount of time I was put on all these asthma drugs. So that is my proof. I am hoping to get some good results from the Intal so I can reduce the Flovent and maybe get off of it all together. So you aren’t alone, your symptoms go along with my theory anyway. Lisa – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Lisa, I was increased from 2 to 3 puffs twice daily of Flovent 44 about 3 months ago. Although I haven’t noticed increased cramping, the muscles in my lower legs and arms are very weak and feel like I’ve worked the muscles too hard (which I haven’t, unfortunately). Actually, they feel sort of like "spaghetti" at times. I have also gained about 10 pounds since the increase. What a drag! Have you experienced any muscle weakness? My doctor is always reluctant to "blame" oddities on my medicine. Patrice I am on Flovent 44 three puffs twice a day. I am having terrible cramping as of late. I used to be on Serevent that I know also caused cramping, and have since went off of it because of side effects. Now I am wondering if the inhaled steroids are causing this and if it is the particular brand I am on (Flovent) or if there is another type that doesn’t cause so much of this cramping. I am on Potassium, cacium, and magnesium supplements. I am wondering if I should switch, go off of the steroid, or what to do. I am also wondering if anyone else has noticed mood swings while on inhaled steriods. I noticed these symptoms increase after increasing from two puffs to three puffs twice a day. Any ideas will be appreciated. Lisa N
It seems like all the doctors are the same way with where they put the blame. As far as they see it, the meds don’t have any bad effects. My doctor is that way. But even though he thinks that way, I got my second VERY BAD cramp in my calf last night while I was sleeping. This is the second one since I started Flovent and Serevent. (And I have only had one other leg cramp in my life 5 years ago) Something has to give. Shannon
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Lisa, I was increased from 2 to 3 puffs twice daily of Flovent 44 about 3 months ago. Although I haven’t noticed increased cramping, the muscles in my lower legs and arms are very weak and feel like I’ve worked the muscles too hard (which I haven’t, unfortunately). Actually, they feel sort of like "spaghetti" at times. I have also gained about 10 pounds since the increase. What a drag! Have you experienced any muscle weakness? My doctor is always reluctant to "blame" oddities on my medicine. Patrice I am on Flovent 44 three puffs twice a day. I am having terrible cramping as of late. I used to be on Serevent that I know also caused cramping, and have since went off of it because of side effects. Now I am wondering if the inhaled steroids are causing this and if it is the particular brand I am on (Flovent) or if there is another type that doesn’t cause so much of this cramping. I am on Potassium, cacium, and magnesium supplements. I am wondering if I should switch, go off of the steroid, or what to do. I am also wondering if anyone else has noticed mood swings while on inhaled steriods. I noticed these symptoms increase after increasing from two puffs to three puffs twice a day. Any ideas will be appreciated. Lisa N
I am on Flovent 44 three puffs twice a day. I am having terrible cramping as of late. I used to be on Serevent that I know also caused cramping, and have since went off of it because of side effects. Now I am wondering if the inhaled steroids are causing this and if it is the particular brand I am on (Flovent) or if there is another type that doesn’t cause so much of this cramping. I am on Potassium, cacium, and magnesium supplements. I am wondering if I should switch, go off of the steroid, or what to do. I am also wondering if anyone else has noticed mood swings while on inhaled steriods. I noticed these symptoms increase after increasing from two puffs to three puffs twice a day. Any ideas will be appreciated. Lisa N
Lisa, I was increased from 2 to 3 puffs twice daily of Flovent 44 about 3 months ago. Although I haven’t noticed increased cramping, the muscles in my lower legs and arms are very weak and feel like I’ve worked the muscles too hard (which I haven’t, unfortunately). Actually, they feel sort of like "spaghetti" at times. I have also gained about 10 pounds since the increase. What a drag! Have you experienced any muscle weakness? My doctor is always reluctant to "blame" oddities on my medicine. Patrice – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am on Flovent 44 three puffs twice a day. I am having terrible cramping as of late. I used to be on Serevent that I know also caused cramping, and have since went off of it because of side effects. Now I am wondering if the inhaled steroids are causing this and if it is the particular brand I am on (Flovent) or if there is another type that doesn’t cause so much of this cramping. I am on Potassium, cacium, and magnesium supplements. I am wondering if I should switch, go off of the steroid, or what to do. I am also wondering if anyone else has noticed mood swings while on inhaled steriods. I noticed these symptoms increase after increasing from two puffs to three puffs twice a day. Any ideas will be appreciated. Lisa N
Hi jenwolf, I don’t know what your situation is, but if you don’t have insurance or lost your insurance coverage most states have an insurance pool available to residents that can’t get private insurance due to chronic illness, birth defects or the like. I would call your State Insurance Office and see what kind of coverage is available including prescription drugs (this is not through welfare and there is a cost). I have had to go through this a million times because my youngest child was born with a life long birth defect and no one other than group insurance will touch him…recently ditto for myself and my other son with asthma. Really raises the blood pressure at times, for sure. Best wishes, Patrice – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – can someone please tell me if there is any help anywhere for this. i have about a month left. please don’t suggest welfare, they have turned me away already. someone mailed me a link to http://www.themedicineprogram.com/ but I’m a lot skeptical about something like this when it’s being done out of a p.o. box and requiring at least $5 up front. please don’t suggest getting samples from my doctor. I take several nebulizer solutions plus singulair and theophyline
Hello Jenwolf I just checked this other site and it has some very good info for free so take a look. http://www.needymeds.com/index.html Thanks Lane Lewis
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – can someone please tell me if there is any help anywhere for this. i have about a month left. please don’t suggest welfare, they have turned me away already. someone mailed me a link to http://www.themedicineprogram.com/ but I’m a lot skeptical about something like this when it’s being done out of a p.o. box and requiring at least $5 up front. please don’t suggest getting samples from my doctor. I take several nebulizer solutions plus singulair and theophyline
Hello Jenwolf I just checked this other site and it has some very good info for free so take a look. http://www.needymeds.com/index.html
Yes, that one was much more helpful. The thing that bothers me is that some of these companies have an income limit. One said not over $1200/month for a family of 2. Our income is just *slightly* over that right now. What these individual companies don’t seem to realize is that the drug they manufacture is not the only drug I need. The cost for all of them approaches $1000. That’s nearly *all* of our income just for medications. There’s no way we can afford it. Some other people suggested I check into a state insurance pool. Michigan has no such thing. Just some laws about covering people with pre-existing conditions, but that only pertains to employers offering employees insurance through insurance companies within the state. The law has a huge loophole in that they can offer insurance through an out-of-state company which doesn’t have to follow Michigan law or they can offer a private insurance which is not regulated by the state. I found only one insurance company that would sell a policy to a private individual, but they don’t offer prescription coverage to individuals at all. I only got lucky that my husband’s other employer seems to have paid the premium that I am covered under even though they didn’t have to since he’s laid off. So, at least I will be able to get another 3 month supply of everything for about $50. This still doesn’t solve the problem, it just puts a band-aid on it. What we need is a *federal* pool. Or I need to move to SC or CO.
This insurance program is sometimes listed under wierd things in the blue pages. Try your state insurance commissioner’s office. Also, there are patient advocacy groups that sometimes have all this information together. Under Michigan State Government on the web, I found this page which has a way to access consumer information services of the Michigan State Insurance Bureau: http://www.cis.state.mi.us/ins/ Good luck. Linda
Thank you for the link. I managed to find the number to the state health insurance bureau and called them. For about $200/month I can get health insurance that covers a lot of things: office visits, lab work, x-rays, dental, optical, hospitalization etc … but not prescriptions. They suggested I call the welfare people. When I told them I’d already been turned away by the welfare people, they said "sorry, can’t help ya" Now I know why so many sick people in Michigan kill themselves.
Links for free drugs for the needy: http://www.themedicineprogram.com/ The Medicine Program "MEDICINE at NO COST!
Medicine at no cost, just be sure you send $5 per medicine requested to this p.o. box and, oh btw, there’s no guarantee. Sounds like a scam to me. The others I haven’t looked at. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – http://www.needymeds.com/index.html Free Meds http://www.aaaai.org/professional/physicianreference/drugassistance.stm Prescription Assistance
Hello Jenwolf Send them the money. They will send you the forms for the free meds. This is legit but there are no guarantees that you will qualify and only some meds such as accolate are available. The drug companies themselves put on these programs for the needy but not all of them do so this service will tell you which ones do and do not. You could try contacting them directly but I’m not sure they would respond. Didn’t you post this about six months ago it’s what got me interested in this and thanks to the person who first posted the link. Thanks :O) Lane Lewis
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – can someone please tell me if there is any help anywhere for this. i have about a month left. please don’t suggest welfare, they have turned me away already. someone mailed me a link to http://www.themedicineprogram.com/ but I’m a lot skeptical about something like this when it’s being done out of a p.o. box and requiring at least $5 up front. please don’t suggest getting samples from my doctor. I take several nebulizer solutions plus singulair and theophyline
Links for free drugs for the needy: http://www.themedicineprogram.com/ The Medicine Program "MEDICINE at NO COST! http://www.needymeds.com/index.html Free Meds http://www.aaaai.org/professional/physicianreference/drugassistance.stm Prescription Assistance
can someone please tell me if there is any help anywhere for this. i have about a month left. please don’t suggest welfare, they have turned me away already. someone mailed me a link to http://www.themedicineprogram.com/ but I’m a lot skeptical about something like this when it’s being done out of a p.o. box and requiring at least $5 up front. please don’t suggest getting samples from my doctor. I take several nebulizer solutions plus singulair and theophyline
Hi jenwolf, I don’t know what your situation is, but if you don’t have insurance or lost your insurance coverage most states have an insurance pool available to residents that can’t get private insurance due to chronic illness, birth defects or the like. I would call your State Insurance Office
I’ve heard of this for auto insurance, but not medical. State Insurance Office. I don’t even know that Michigan has one. I can try to find out. What state are you in?
I’m in South Carolina. Look in your blue pages under State Insurance Department. I live in one of the most backward states in the US, so that gives me hope that your state has comparable benefits. (I know there are SC residents that lurk on this ng, so please don’t flame me for this comment.)
Hmmm, all I can find is listed under community services – insurance complaints – insurance information hotline. I suppose I could call them and complain about being excluded from every medical insurance on the planet just because I have asthma and depression and need about $1000 worth of medication every month. But there’s no listing under the state section. Shrug. Interesting that they also list the suicide prevention hotline under insurance complaints. ‘Course lack of adequate medical care is probably the number 1 reason people in Michigan kill themselves. Not very encouraging, that.
This insurance program is sometimes listed under wierd things in the blue pages. Try your state insurance commissioner’s office. Also, there are patient advocacy groups that sometimes have all this information together. Under Michigan State Government on the web, I found this page which has a way to access consumer information services of the Michigan State Insurance Bureau: http://www.cis.state.mi.us/ins/ Good luck. Linda – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m in South Carolina. Look in your blue pages under State Insurance Department. I live in one of the most backward states in the US, so that gives me hope that your state has comparable benefits. (I know there are SC residents that lurk on this ng, so please don’t flame me for this comment.) Hmmm, all I can find is listed under community services – insurance complaints – insurance information hotline. I suppose I could call them and complain about being excluded from every medical insurance on the planet just because I have asthma and depression and need about $1000 worth of medication every month. But there’s no listing under the state section. Shrug. Interesting that they also list the suicide prevention hotline under insurance complaints. ‘Course lack of adequate medical care is probably the number 1 reason people in Michigan kill themselves. Not very encouraging, that.
I’m in South Carolina. Look in your blue pages under State Insurance Department. I live in one of the most backward states in the US, so that gives me hope that your state has comparable benefits. (I know there are SC residents that lurk on this ng, so please don’t flame me for this comment.) Good luck, Patrice – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi jenwolf, I don’t know what your situation is, but if you don’t have insurance or lost your insurance coverage most states have an insurance pool available to residents that can’t get private insurance due to chronic illness, birth defects or the like. I would call your State Insurance Office I’ve heard of this for auto insurance, but not medical. State Insurance Office. I don’t even know that Michigan has one. I can try to find out. What state are you in?
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Enfilade, Effexor is a big time drug to be on for depression – it is usually used for major depression and even some psychotic disorders. I understand that you want off of the medication because you feel good now – but remember, that is the medication helping you to feel better and control your depression. If you are wanting to try something that won’t turn you into a zombie, ask your doctor about weaning off of it, while being started on something else. If you are taken off of medication completely and you begin to relapse, you could spiral downward before a new drug takes effect (anti-depressants usually take 3-4 weeks before full effect is reached). The consequesnces of that far outweight the benefits of being "drug-free." Also, a relapse is usually worse once being taken off of a medication because of the major changes in the chemicals in your brain… Please be careful 
I know there is a stigma attached to being on medication for depression, but it is an illness…. Really think of the benefits of the medication vesus the possible results of being off of the medication. Talk to your doc first about switching to a different kind, one that still helps your symptoms, but with less side effects. Good luck
This is wonderful advice, judging from my experience with clinically’ depressed loved ones. Have your doctor help you find a drug that does not interefere with your quality of life–but remember that depression kills. It is a terrible, debilitating disease.
I have to second this. These days with managed care, a lot of antidepressants are prescribed by general physicians who frankly don’t have the right pharmocological background.
Yes. And they are prescribing them to people without clinical illness, in many cases. Sometimes I think half the people on antidepressants are not clinically depressed, they just want to "feel better." I think this is dangerous. I’ve been very lucky– in a sense– because my depressions have always been under a psychiatrist’s treatment. I’m not saying this is true of everyone, but with my history, and my genetics, I have a very strong inclination towards depression. I would no more try to "tough" out a depression without medication than I would refuse insulin if I were diabetic. I have had the experience of withdrawing off a very tough drug (nardil), and while I never hope to repeat such a thing, it was incredibly important that I do it. I am now stable on a low dose of Wellbutrin, which seems to have little/no side effects for me.
Wellbutrin has been a wonder drug for a friend of mine. So few side effects for her.
That red haze is starting to creep back a little, since the doc didn’t in any way suggest that this was a "for the rest of my life" kind of thing until just now. I feel like I’ve gotten suckered into this situation, and that pisses me off. –Enfilade
I was on Effexor for about three years, and went off it for much the same reasons you mentioned. I’ve been off antidepresants for a couple years now, but it’s getting to be time to start again. Going to have to visit the doc to get a prescription for something other than Effexor. If you do it carefully, with the doc monitoring you closely, I’d sure think it ought to be possible to wean yourself off the Effexor until you can start with something else. Of course if you don’t have health insurance the "close monitoring" thing might be a problem too. We’ll be sending our best purrs that you are able to find a way to make the transition off of Effexor.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This is my first vent here… I want to get off the Effexor I’ve been taking for depression for almost a year now. I’ve been more stable than DP’s seen me to be in the past 8 years, in the last 6 months. Unfortunately, in those last 6 months I also sleep about 12 hours a day, and occasionally I get this "Stoned" sensation where stuff gets blurry and I have trouble thinking of words or figuring out just where I am…I’ll wander and then snap out of my reverie like, two hours later, wondering where the time went. The stuff’s expensive as hell, I have no drug coverage, and there’s no way I can do a master’s thesis in September if I’m sleeping more than I’m awake. If I want back on flight operations, I have to lose the drugs that could affect my ability to control an aircraft. So today I’m at the doctor’s and he tells me that if I quit the stuff, I’m almost guaranteed to relapse. DP’s afraid I will, sometime when no one’s around to stop me from cutting my throat–or someone else’s. I’m in my 20s. I don’t want to be on this crap for the rest of my life. Hell, the concept of being stuck on drugs is one of the big reasons I left my depression untreated until I became a menace to people around me as well as myself. I think I know the symptoms well enough–if I start inflicting injury on myself and viewing life through a red rage haze, it’s time to go back on the pills. I was depressed, I think, since about age 4 or so, but during that time I only had two severe (ie, want-to-kill-myself) episodes, and those 8 years apart. The minor rounds I could handle without chemical interference. At that rate, it’d be 2013 before I needed pills again. That’s a lot of money and a lot of drug-free years. That red haze is starting to creep back a little, since the doc didn’t in any way suggest that this was a "for the rest of my life" kind of thing until just now. I feel like I’ve gotten suckered into this situation, and that pisses me off. –Enfilade
Over the years, I worked my way through just about all the prescription drugs for depression. At this time, I’ve been on Venlafaxine for several years now; according to my shrink, I’ll never develop an "immunity" to it, the way I gradually did to each other. Ask your doctor to consider it.
If you do it carefully, with the doc monitoring you closely, I’d sure think it ought to be possible to wean yourself off the Effexor until you can start with something else. Of course if you don’t have health insurance the "close monitoring" thing might be a problem too. We’ll be sending our best purrs that you are able to find a way to make the transition off of Effexor.
Howdy folks! Thanks for all your comments. I really appreciate it. "Close monitoring’ is easy for me because DP is a medical student. Also, in Canada, visiting the doctor is free. The only thing I have to pay for is the pills. Now, with DP being a medical student, he and I have gone ’round on this one…while he thinks I should be on /something/, he also is willing to live by my decision, if a bit nervously. At first he insisted that Effexor couldn’t possibly make me sleepy because his medical journals say it causes insomnia; however, today he met up with a neurophysician friend, who said that there are instances of that side effect on record, so NA NAAAA *sticks out tongue* *Serves you right to believe the studies instead of me PPPPPPTHHH!!!* *ahem* As for side effects, once in a snowstorm I did without for three days and aside from a bit of dizziness (I’ve had far worse from the flu) I was fine. What I don’t like is, the doc says the stuff isn’t addictive, and yet if I’m not supposed to go off it EVER, I might as /well/ be addicted. What am I on it for? Well, for the most part, I have my stuff pretty well together. For 25 years I’d hit "lows", which never lasted more than about 6 hours. I’d spend those days in my room, watching videos if I could concentrate and lying around if I couldn’t, waiting for the "weather to pass." I could handle this. My first bad time hit when I started feeling abandoned by my friends, broke up with my boyfriend, had health issues, my grades slipped a bit, and I and got kicked out of the house by my mom for taking a spare to address the grades thing. I was living on people’s couches and/or the public airport, and wanted a lot of support from my friends that they didn’t or couldnt or didn’t know to give (I’m an independent SOB who didn’t know how to ask for help, so it wasn’t entirely their fault.) I was 17, had done all I wanted to do in my life, and didn’t know how I was going to keep myself fed and sheltered until I got to university, or if it wasn’t maybe ready for me to call my life "finished" since I’d met all my goals. My more recent one involved 7 months of looking for work when my EI ran out and I took a job at the mall. Another 2 months with a jealous co-worker actively trying to get me fired, a position that involved coercive selling despite what I was told at my interview, more unsuccessful job interviews, and me with a master’s degree going apesh!t from boredom, while DPs life was at its high point and he was celebrating being here in this city while I wanted to grab my duffel bag and go back to living in cars and airports if it’d get me out of here. It takes some pretty bad sh!t to set me off…so while I /am/ a little, er, short-fused at those times, normal life doesn’t evoke depression in me. I’m hopefully in a master’s program full time next year–academia is a stabilizing lifestyle for me. Better to do another master’s than end up in the nutty house. Anyway, I think my life will be pretty stable then–DP is such a calming influence on me. Sometimes I feel like he’s my nurse. Of course, on his part, he sometimes tends to be quite naive and carefree/careless, and needs me watching his back. "Just because YOU wouldn’t steal a car doesn’t mean someone else wouldn’t…so LOCK THE CAR." 
–Fil
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Effexor isn’t the only antidepressant out there, and your doc is greatly remiss in not considering exploring other meds. There are ADs that don’t cause hypersomnia, and which might be less expensive than Effexor. The problem with Effexor is that quitting cold is not an option; it has to be done gradually and incrementally. Quitting all at once produces an extremely undesirable sensation known as "brain spins," "brain shivers," "brain surges," and other unsavory encephalitic phrases. One person described it to me as feeling like your brain is spinning inside your head. Alternatives are out there, and you deserve to have the chance to explore them. I can only add to what everyone else has said. AD medication is not yet totally understood. As sufferers, we have to accept that. After all, we all would like a perfect world, but it just isn’t there yet. The best thing is to find a practitioner who is willing to try different medication until the benefit outways the side-effects. Don’t forget you need a few weeks to wean off the old drug, and a few weeks for the new one to start to work properly. It took me a year or two of trying several different drugs until we found one that has almost no side-effects and works really well.
Absolute agreement. The withdrawal effects, and also trying to figure out if the new drug is starting to work, takes time. In some cases, it’s not just clearing confusion. In the case of the MAO inhibitors, not letting another drug clear (about 2 weeks) can kill you. MAO inhibitors are effective, but they have so many drug and food interactions — potentially lethal ones — that they are avoided. A drug that won’t let you have chocolate, chianti, or aged cheese? Perish the thought! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If this sounds like a long time, it’s not really. Almost the first drug you try will help with the AD and you will feel better; from there it’s just a matter of fine-tuning the process so that the side-effects are reduced. Some people will put up with a bit of sleeplessness, others loss of libido, others jitterness. You just need to find a drug whose side-effects are acceptable to you. Good luck, and don’t give up, because it *does* help in the long run. I am feeling fine with my drugs and I’ve almost *no* side-effects.
On 2005-03-09, Karen penned: Well, I’ll tell you what. I work below a doctor’s office, and EVERY (every single solitary) day, I watch pharmaceutical reps tote in expensive (and I do mean from the BEST places in town) lunches for everyone. It is absolutely *revolting* to see this kind of "bribing" taking place every day. And you should see the vehicles the reps arrive in. No matter how much pharmaceutical companies cry "but it is SOOOOO expensive to research these very necessary drugs" whenever ever drug prices are brought up, I don’t believe it. I believe their marketing budget far outweighs their research. And how many pens and chairs (I kid you not, I saw two stadium chairs stamped with a huge Nexium logo woven right in at a garage sale this summer) and note pads do you see lying around? Makes me just want to urp.
My SIL worked as a biologist for a major pharmaceutical company and said basically the same thing. — monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What gets to me about the antidepressant drug business is that it’s very well known that some drugs will work for some people while others will work better for other people. But, the only way to find out which one’s right for you is the brute force approach – try ‘em all until you find one that works for you. There’s very little research that examines which antidepressants work best for which people out in the community and why. <cynic After all, drug manufacturers are probably doing quite well out of the brute force approach… it wouldn’t be in THEIR best interests to sponsor research that might find a better way. would it? </cynic Actually, there is a lot of research, or at least experience that gets shared among the psychiatrists that really want the information. They may be specialists in psychopharmacology. Sometimes, the extra training there can get them networking with the right people. I remember a scathing editorial on Medscape.com by a pediatric psychopharmacologist, who was furious at all too many psychiatrists who overprescribe the newer drugs. Why? Not studying? Too much influence by pharmaceutical companies? Now, pharmacology has always been one of my interests. I’ve found a surprising number of doctors that don’t know the biochemistry of the multiple classes of drugs useful in different kinds of depression and with different patients, including: Post-synaptic nonselective of ST and NE, operating on the catechol-O-methyl-transferase enzyme system Post-synaptic nonselective of ST and NE, operating on the monoamine oxidase enzyme system Pre-synaptic selective ST reuptake inhibitors "Atypical" pre-synaptic ST reuptake inhibitors Pre-synaptic nonselective ST/NE reuptake inhibitors Pre-synaptic selective NE reuptake inhibitors Anticonvulsants Lithium Stimulant amines like Ritalin Strattera … need I go on? Something that often gets missed is a patient with mixed anxiety and depression, who may need an anxiolytic as well as an antidepressant. There are also drugs that can help minimize the side effects of some of the psychotropics, such as beta-blockers to minimize the hand tremor common with the anticonvulsant valproate. OK, I’m only a number-cruncher – I freely admit that I know nothing about pharmacology and I’m just spouting speculation. But it does seem to me that an awful lot of published drug studies don’t reflect how medications are really used in the community as opposed to what happens in carefully controlled clinical trials.
Precisely. In the US, the manufacturer applies to the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) with a New Drug Application (NDA) seeking licensing of a new drug. The FDA and the manufacturer agreee on the clinical trials that have been done [1] or need to be done, and, when there is sufficient information, an approval officer or panel decides whether to authorize a license. [1] Earlier in the process, a manufacturer, or independent researcher, can apply for an Investigational New Drug (IND) application, which gives the authority to use it in clinical trials. INDs are not available by prescription, although there is a "compassionate use" procedure by which a clinician can request a supply of the experimental drug for a patient in whom all other therapies have failed. Each NDA is for a specific list of "indications", or conditions the manufacturer asserts the drug will treat. Physicians are permitted to prescribe drugs for "off-label" indications not in the manufacturers’ literature. Part of the time, off-label prescribing can be a good way to use the knowledge of experienced physicians, especially for rarer conditions where the manufacturer didn’t want to pay for clinical trials for the other indication. An unfortunate other part of the time, however, we have seen pharmaceutical company representatives pushing off-label indications to increase sales, with no data backing it up. Incidentally, I’m not opposed to all pharmaceutical representatives, often called "detail men". Some are extremely knowledgeable, help independent researchers and clinicians meet one another, and act as a channel between practicing physicians and the company research department. Others have the ethics of used car salesmen — and that’s increasingly common in their profit-driven upper management. It’s sad to remember that the accepted term for the US prescription drug manufacturers was the "ethical pharmaceutical industry." At one time, many of the manufacturers really did have a commitment to medicine over short-term profit. In Australia (don’t know whether things are different in the USA) hardly anyone would be able to get their antidepressants prescribed by a psychiatrist – there are just so few of them that even if you’re able to pay privately, the waiting list for an appointment will be months long. You really have to be so ill that you’re a danger to other people (a danger to yourself isn’t enough) to be able to see a psychiatrist quickly. So, most people have to go to a GP to get a prescription, and I guess the shared experience of specialist psychiatrists on choosing an antidepressant isn’t reaching them. Then again, the shrinks are probably too darned overworked to publish what they know…
Quite frankly, then, I’ll put in a suggestion to the Australian medical authorities that they might do well to use computer assistance from one of my research areas: expert systems for prescribing. While my work has more been in cardiology and infectious disease, it’s quite possible to construct a "consultant in a box" that can help a primary physician select drugs and find alternatives. Unfortunately, there is an overall problem of specialist knowledge reaching GPs. In the US, there are several annual studies that show poor dissemination of knowledge. For example, cardiologists (a subspecialty of internal medicine, with their own subspecialties beyond that) usually know what drugs have been found good and bad in treating heart attack or congestive heart failures. Some of the effective drugs are NOT intuitive. Internists don’t have as high a knowledge of the correct drugs. The percentage of primary care physicians that know the most up-to-date therapies tends to be even lower. I must say that cuddling a cat is one of the best ways I’ve found to deal with depression in the short term. I personally find a big, heavy one with long whiskers and loud purrs most effective.
Absolutely. Purring time should be reimbursable under all insurance plans!
This is my first vent here… I want to get off the Effexor I’ve been taking for depression for almost a year now. I’ve been more stable than DP’s seen me to be in the past 8 years, in the last 6 months. Unfortunately, in those last 6 months I also sleep about 12 hours a day, and occasionally I get this "Stoned" sensation where stuff gets blurry and I have trouble thinking of words or figuring out just where I am…I’ll wander and then snap out of my reverie like, two hours later, wondering where the time went. The stuff’s expensive as hell, I have no drug coverage, and there’s no way I can do a master’s thesis in September if I’m sleeping more than I’m awake. If I want back on flight operations, I have to lose the drugs that could affect my ability to control an aircraft. So today I’m at the doctor’s and he tells me that if I quit the stuff, I’m almost guaranteed to relapse. DP’s afraid I will, sometime when no one’s around to stop me from cutting my throat–or someone else’s. I’m in my 20s. I don’t want to be on this crap for the rest of my life. Hell, the concept of being stuck on drugs is one of the big reasons I left my depression untreated until I became a menace to people around me as well as myself. I think I know the symptoms well enough–if I start inflicting injury on myself and viewing life through a red rage haze, it’s time to go back on the pills. I was depressed, I think, since about age 4 or so, but during that time I only had two severe (ie, want-to-kill-myself) episodes, and those 8 years apart. The minor rounds I could handle without chemical interference. At that rate, it’d be 2013 before I needed pills again. That’s a lot of money and a lot of drug-free years. That red haze is starting to creep back a little, since the doc didn’t in any way suggest that this was a "for the rest of my life" kind of thing until just now. I feel like I’ve gotten suckered into this situation, and that pisses me off. –Enfilade
That red haze is starting to creep back a little, since the doc didn’t in any way suggest that this was a "for the rest of my life" kind of thing until just now. I feel like I’ve gotten suckered into this situation, and that pisses me off. –Enfilade
Aw Fil, I know *EXACTLY* how you feel. My doctor put me on Effexor because it’s supposed to help with the pain of Fibromyalgia. Not *ONCE* did he tell me that the withdrawals from this drug are worse than the withdrawals from heroine – and last longer. Please, *PLEASE*, don’t quit taking this drug cold turkey (that’s what I did because my doctor wouldn’t help me get off them in a gradual way). I ended up in the emergency room and found out later that I could have killed myself by doing this. My daughter was also put on Effexor, but for depression. She wanted to get off of them too, but couldn’t, not even with a gradual withdrawal (as soon as she missed one dose she would have horrible, severe flu-like symptoms. Some other withdrawal symptoms of Effexor that I had are feeling like I was being electrocuted with pulsing shock like feelings all through my body, nausea, heart palpitations, cold sweats, insomnia, dizziness, headaches, shakes, going into fugue states and not remembering where I was or what I was doing (really scary when you’re driving), crying jags and screaming rages. There is supposedly a class-action lawsuit against Wyeth-Ayerst Labs because they knew all about these symptoms but still pushed this drug for all kinds or medical problems besides depression. There are newsgroup and chat rooms dedicated to nothing but the horrible side effects and withdrawal symptoms of this drug. Here is the result of a google search on Effexor withdrawal symptoms: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=effexor+withdrawals. Again, please be very careful how you go about getting off this drug, if you decide to. I’ve heard that ClaritinD helps somewhat with the withdrawals. Hugs, CatNipped
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Nipped, That is one of the symptoms I had when I first stepped down the dosage – major flu like symptoms, and extremely exhausted. I am now over that, but it took almost a month. My dr. said it was a Fibromyalgia flare, and it was because the Effexor had been controlling the symptoms and it wasn’t any more. Honestly, I felt WORSE after this drug than I ever did before as far as the fibro went. It is like it exacerbated it, rather than controlling it. Yeah, for me too. I really didn’t feel any diminishment of pain from the fibro while I was on the Effexor. It *did* help the depression that was caused by the fibro (finding out that you’re going to be in constant pain for the rest of your life can be quite depressing). And you’re right, the pain during withdrawals was definitely worse than the pain I had before I started taking it. I really don’t know why they haven’t taken this drug off the market – there’s beeen thousands of complaints to the FDA about it. I think there’s been some *marjor* payoffs regarding this golden goose of the drug company that manufactures it.
It really does work for some people – me for one. When I started it I felt like I’d been woken up after years asleep. I’m not good at describing this sort of thing, but on this drug I actually started to feel like I could DO something – make choices and take actions – that might have some sort of effect on my life. I’d been through the usual list of other antidepressants – some didn’t work at all, some worked for a while, one worked well but I had an allergic reaction to it. I’m down to a really low dose now, but am not keen to stop it altogether in case I slide back into that old black hole again. So I can say it’s been good for me, but obviously it’s not good for everyone and probably is dangerous for some. What gets to me about the antidepressant drug business is that it’s very well known that some drugs will work for some people while others will work better for other people. But, the only way to find out which one’s right for you is the brute force approach – try ‘em all until you find one that works for you. There’s very little research that examines which antidepressants work best for which people out in the community and why. <cynic After all, drug manufacturers are probably doing quite well out of the brute force approach… it wouldn’t be in THEIR best interests to sponsor research that might find a better way. would it? </cynic
Hi Enfilade, Just want to let you know I wrote you a private email on this subject. Let me know if you don’t get it. regards, Christine
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This is my first vent here… I want to get off the Effexor I’ve been taking for depression for almost a year now. I’ve been more stable than DP’s seen me to be in the past 8 years, in the last 6 months. Unfortunately, in those last 6 months I also sleep about 12 hours a day, and occasionally I get this "Stoned" sensation where stuff gets blurry and I have trouble thinking of words or figuring out just where I am…I’ll wander and then snap out of my reverie like, two hours later, wondering where the time went. The stuff’s expensive as hell, I have no drug coverage, and there’s no way I can do a master’s thesis in September if I’m sleeping more than I’m awake. If I want back on flight operations, I have to lose the drugs that could affect my ability to control an aircraft. So today I’m at the doctor’s and he tells me that if I quit the stuff, I’m almost guaranteed to relapse. DP’s afraid I will, sometime when no one’s around to stop me from cutting my throat–or someone else’s. I’m in my 20s. I don’t want to be on this crap for the rest of my life. Hell, the concept of being stuck on drugs is one of the big reasons I left my depression untreated until I became a menace to people around me as well as myself. I think I know the symptoms well enough–if I start inflicting injury on myself and viewing life through a red rage haze, it’s time to go back on the pills. I was depressed, I think, since about age 4 or so, but during that time I only had two severe (ie, want-to-kill-myself) episodes, and those 8 years apart. The minor rounds I could handle without chemical interference. At that rate, it’d be 2013 before I needed pills again. That’s a lot of money and a lot of drug-free years. That red haze is starting to creep back a little, since the doc didn’t in any way suggest that this was a "for the rest of my life" kind of thing until just now. I feel like I’ve gotten suckered into this situation, and that pisses me off. –Enfilade
Is there a different antidepressant, with fewer side effects, that your doctor can help you switch over to? Nobody wants to be on meds for the long haul. That goes double for a med that’s causing side effects that are as disruptive to daily living as the problem the medicine is supposed to be relieving. But some people, including me, would be in a permanent state of depression without meds. In my case, even what I USED to think of as a normal state was a low-level state of depression, and I’ve wavered between that and flat-out clinical depression since I was 10. (Which means I’ve been dealing with this for over 30 years.) But it was being downsized a few years ago that brought on a really, REALLY severe and unrelenting case of depression. Finally, I went to the doctor because the symptoms were not only debilitating, they were showing no signs of lifting. The prescription I’m on right now is Celexa (citalopram), and it has helped a lot. It also doesn’t have the side effects you were describing. Maybe you can discuss switching over to that or to a different prescription that will help the depression, minus the side effects you’re getting from the Effexor. My husband is on thyroid medication, permanently, because his thyroid doesn’t produce enough hormone on its own. Friends and relatives of mine take insulin or pills to regulate diabetes, since their bodies don’t produce enough insulin. And there’s no difference between their permanent need for meds, and the fact that my body needs some help getting the serotonin level right. There’s no shame in needing any of those meds, or any other prescription, not even if it’s necessary over the long haul. It’s not fun AT ALL to have to deal with these issues. 
( But see if you can work with your doctor to change to a different medication. And if this doc won’t work with you on that, it’s time for a second opinion. Keep us posted. Donna
Effexor isn’t the only antidepressant out there, and your doc is greatly remiss in not considering exploring other meds. There are ADs that don’t cause hypersomnia, and which might be less expensive than Effexor. The problem with Effexor is that quitting cold is not an option; it has to be done gradually and incrementally. Quitting all at once produces an extremely undesirable sensation known as "brain spins," "brain shivers," "brain surges," and other unsavory encephalitic phrases. One person described it to me as feeling like your brain is spinning inside your head. Alternatives are out there, and you deserve to have the chance to explore them.
I can only add to what everyone else has said. AD medication is not yet totally understood. As sufferers, we have to accept that. After all, we all would like a perfect world, but it just isn’t there yet. The best thing is to find a practitioner who is willing to try different medication until the benefit outways the side-effects. Don’t forget you need a few weeks to wean off the old drug, and a few weeks for the new one to start to work properly. It took me a year or two of trying several different drugs until we found one that has almost no side-effects and works really well. If this sounds like a long time, it’s not really. Almost the first drug you try will help with the AD and you will feel better; from there it’s just a matter of fine-tuning the process so that the side-effects are reduced. Some people will put up with a bit of sleeplessness, others loss of libido, others jitterness. You just need to find a drug whose side-effects are acceptable to you. Good luck, and don’t give up, because it *does* help in the long run. I am feeling fine with my drugs and I’ve almost *no* side-effects.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What gets to me about the antidepressant drug business is that it’s very well known that some drugs will work for some people while others will work better for other people. But, the only way to find out which one’s right for you is the brute force approach – try ‘em all until you find one that works for you. There’s very little research that examines which antidepressants work best for which people out in the community and why. <cynic After all, drug manufacturers are probably doing quite well out of the brute force approach… it wouldn’t be in THEIR best interests to sponsor research that might find a better way. would it? </cynic Actually, there is a lot of research, or at least experience that gets shared among the psychiatrists that really want the information. They may be specialists in psychopharmacology. Sometimes, the extra training there can get them networking with the right people. I remember a scathing editorial on Medscape.com by a pediatric psychopharmacologist, who was furious at all too many psychiatrists who overprescribe the newer drugs. Why? Not studying? Too much influence by pharmaceutical companies? Now, pharmacology has always been one of my interests. I’ve found a surprising number of doctors that don’t know the biochemistry of the multiple classes of drugs useful in different kinds of depression and with different patients, including: Post-synaptic nonselective of ST and NE, operating on the catechol-O-methyl-transferase enzyme system Post-synaptic nonselective of ST and NE, operating on the monoamine oxidase enzyme system Pre-synaptic selective ST reuptake inhibitors "Atypical" pre-synaptic ST reuptake inhibitors Pre-synaptic nonselective ST/NE reuptake inhibitors Pre-synaptic selective NE reuptake inhibitors Anticonvulsants Lithium Stimulant amines like Ritalin Strattera … need I go on? Something that often gets missed is a patient with mixed anxiety and depression, who may need an anxiolytic as well as an antidepressant. There are also drugs that can help minimize the side effects of some of the psychotropics, such as beta-blockers to minimize the hand tremor common with the anticonvulsant valproate.
OK, I’m only a number-cruncher – I freely admit that I know nothing about pharmacology and I’m just spouting speculation. But it does seem to me that an awful lot of published drug studies don’t reflect how medications are really used in the community as opposed to what happens in carefully controlled clinical trials. In Australia (don’t know whether things are different in the USA) hardly anyone would be able to get their antidepressants prescribed by a psychiatrist – there are just so few of them that even if you’re able to pay privately, the waiting list for an appointment will be months long. You really have to be so ill that you’re a danger to other people (a danger to yourself isn’t enough) to be able to see a psychiatrist quickly. So, most people have to go to a GP to get a prescription, and I guess the shared experience of specialist psychiatrists on choosing an antidepressant isn’t reaching them. Then again, the shrinks are probably too darned overworked to publish what they know… I must say that cuddling a cat is one of the best ways I’ve found to deal with depression in the short term. I personally find a big, heavy one with long whiskers and loud purrs most effective.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This is my first vent here… I want to get off the Effexor I’ve been taking for depression for almost a year now. I’ve been more stable than DP’s seen me to be in the past 8 years, in the last 6 months. Unfortunately, in those last 6 months I also sleep about 12 hours a day, and occasionally I get this "Stoned" sensation where stuff gets blurry and I have trouble thinking of words or figuring out just where I am…I’ll wander and then snap out of my reverie like, two hours later, wondering where the time went. The stuff’s expensive as hell, I have no drug coverage, and there’s no way I can do a master’s thesis in September if I’m sleeping more than I’m awake. If I want back on flight operations, I have to lose the drugs that could affect my ability to control an aircraft. So today I’m at the doctor’s and he tells me that if I quit the stuff, I’m almost guaranteed to relapse. DP’s afraid I will, sometime when no one’s around to stop me from cutting my throat–or someone else’s. I’m in my 20s. I don’t want to be on this crap for the rest of my life. Hell, the concept of being stuck on drugs is one of the big reasons I left my depression untreated until I became a menace to people around me as well as myself. I think I know the symptoms well enough–if I start inflicting injury on myself and viewing life through a red rage haze, it’s time to go back on the pills. I was depressed, I think, since about age 4 or so, but during that time I only had two severe (ie, want-to-kill-myself) episodes, and those 8 years apart. The minor rounds I could handle without chemical interference. At that rate, it’d be 2013 before I needed pills again. That’s a lot of money and a lot of drug-free years. That red haze is starting to creep back a little, since the doc didn’t in any way suggest that this was a "for the rest of my life" kind of thing until just now. I feel like I’ve gotten suckered into this situation, and that pisses me off. –Enfilade
Effexor isn’t the only antidepressant out there, and your doc is greatly remiss in not considering exploring other meds. There are ADs that don’t cause hypersomnia, and which might be less expensive than Effexor. The problem with Effexor is that quitting cold is not an option; it has to be done gradually and incrementally. Quitting all at once produces an extremely undesirable sensation known as "brain spins," "brain shivers," "brain surges," and other unsavory encephalitic phrases. One person described it to me as feeling like your brain is spinning inside your head. Alternatives are out there, and you deserve to have the chance to explore them.
In article – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is there a different antidepressant, with fewer side effects, that your doctor can help you switch over to? Nobody wants to be on meds for the long haul. That goes double for a med that’s causing side effects that are as disruptive to daily living as the problem the medicine is supposed to be relieving. But some people, including me, would be in a permanent state of depression without meds. In my case, even what I USED to think of as a normal state was a low-level state of depression, and I’ve wavered between that and flat-out clinical depression since I was 10. (Which means I’ve been dealing with this for over 30 years.) But it was being downsized a few years ago that brought on a really, REALLY severe and unrelenting case of depression. Finally, I went to the doctor because the symptoms were not only debilitating, they were showing no signs of lifting. The prescription I’m on right now is Celexa (citalopram), and it has helped a lot. It also doesn’t have the side effects you were describing. Maybe you can discuss switching over to that or to a different prescription that will help the depression, minus the side effects you’re getting from the Effexor.
Celexa is in a different family than Effexor. Celexa, along with Paxil and a few others, is considered an "atypical" selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor. I’ve gotten biochemical enough without getting into why these are considered "atypical" with respect to Prozac, Zoloft, etc. Yes, yes, yes. If one psychotropic drug doesn’t work well, there tend to be alternatives, both within the same family and in different families. For example, I have intolerable dry mouth with the tricyclic antidepressant amitriptyline (Elavil), but not with the closely related nortriptyline (Pamelor). My husband is on thyroid medication, permanently, because his thyroid doesn’t produce enough hormone on its own. Friends and relatives of mine take insulin or pills to regulate diabetes, since their bodies don’t produce enough insulin. And there’s no difference between their permanent need for meds, and the fact that my body needs some help getting the serotonin level right. There’s no shame in needing any of those meds, or any other prescription, not even if it’s necessary over the long haul. It’s not fun AT ALL to have to deal with these issues. ( But see if you can work with your doctor to change to a different medication. And if this doc won’t work with you on that, it’s time for a second opinion.
Exactly. I find more physicians "stuck" with a very few psychotropic drugs than almost any other class of medications. If an infectious disease specialist only wanted to use 2 or 3 classes of antibiotics, they’d be considered candidates for psychotherapy, or at least intensive retraining. Why can’t psychiatrists bother with the alternativews available to them?
Too many psychiatrists are overly fixated on single drugs or drug classes. They seem to fixate on the newest drugs, rather than older ones that can be quite effective
Well, I’ll tell you what. I work below a doctor’s office, and EVERY (every single solitary) day, I watch pharmaceutical reps tote in expensive (and I do mean from the BEST places in town) lunches for everyone. It is absolutely *revolting* to see this kind of "bribing" taking place every day. And you should see the vehicles the reps arrive in. No matter how much pharmaceutical companies cry "but it is SOOOOO expensive to research these very necessary drugs" whenever ever drug prices are brought up, I don’t believe it. I believe their marketing budget far outweighs their research. And how many pens and chairs (I kid you not, I saw two stadium chairs stamped with a huge Nexium logo woven right in at a garage sale this summer) and note pads do you see lying around? Makes me just want to urp.
What gets to me about the antidepressant drug business is that it’s very well known that some drugs will work for some people while others will work better for other people. But, the only way to find out which one’s right for you is the brute force approach – try ‘em all until you find one that works for you. There’s very little research that examines which antidepressants work best for which people out in the community and why. <cynic After all, drug manufacturers are probably doing quite well out of the brute force approach… it wouldn’t be in THEIR best interests to sponsor research that might find a better way. would it? </cynic
Actually, there is a lot of research, or at least experience that gets shared among the psychiatrists that really want the information. They may be specialists in psychopharmacology. Sometimes, the extra training there can get them networking with the right people. I remember a scathing editorial on Medscape.com by a pediatric psychopharmacologist, who was furious at all too many psychiatrists who overprescribe the newer drugs. Why? Not studying? Too much influence by pharmaceutical companies? Now, pharmacology has always been one of my interests. I’ve found a surprising number of doctors that don’t know the biochemistry of the multiple classes of drugs useful in different kinds of depression and with different patients, including: Post-synaptic nonselective of ST and NE, operating on the catechol-O-methyl-transferase enzyme system Post-synaptic nonselective of ST and NE, operating on the monoamine oxidase enzyme system Pre-synaptic selective ST reuptake inhibitors "Atypical" pre-synaptic ST reuptake inhibitors Pre-synaptic nonselective ST/NE reuptake inhibitors Pre-synaptic selective NE reuptake inhibitors Anticonvulsants Lithium Stimulant amines like Ritalin Strattera … need I go on? Something that often gets missed is a patient with mixed anxiety and depression, who may need an anxiolytic as well as an antidepressant. There are also drugs that can help minimize the side effects of some of the psychotropics, such as beta-blockers to minimize the hand tremor common with the anticonvulsant valproate.
(Snip) But some people, including me, would be in a permanent state of depression without meds. In my case, even what I USED to think of as a normal state was a low-level state of depression, and I’ve wavered between that and flat-out clinical depression since I was 10. (Which means I’ve been dealing with this for over 30 years.)
I have to second this. These days with managed care, a lot of antidepressants are prescribed by general physicians who frankly don’t have the right pharmocological background. I’ve been very lucky– in a sense– because my depressions have always been under a psychiatrist’s treatment. I’m not saying this is true of everyone, but with my history, and my genetics, I have a very strong inclination towards depression. I would no more try to "tough" out a depression without medication than I would refuse insulin if I were diabetic. I have had the experience of withdrawing off a very tough drug (nardil), and while I never hope to repeat such a thing, it was incredibly important that I do it. I am now stable on a low dose of Wellbutrin, which seems to have little/no side effects for me. Theresa Stinky Pictures: http://community.webshots.com/album/125591586JWEFwh My Blog: http://www.humanitas.blogspot.com
This is my first vent here… I want to get off the Effexor I’ve been taking for depression for almost a year now. I’ve been more stable than DP’s seen me to be in the past 8 years, in the last 6 months. Unfortunately, in those last 6 months I also sleep about 12 hours a day, and occasionally I get this "Stoned" sensation where stuff gets blurry and I have trouble thinking of words or figuring out just where I am…I’ll wander and then snap out of my reverie like, two hours later, wondering where the time went.
Funny how things work — we are looking at it as an alternative, but only if we can’t tweak the dosage on my present drugs. If Effexor does have a positive effect as well as side effects, there is a reasonable class of alternatives: the "first-generation" tricyclic antidepressants (TCA). Cheap, and with a different side effect profile. Both Effexor and the TCAs differ from the "second generation" selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRI) in being nonselective: they elevate both serotonin and norepinephrine, rather than just serotonin. The two classes do it by different mechanisms. Effexor works presynaptically, slowing the reuptake into the transmitting cell. TCAs work postsynaptically, inhibiting the enzyme catechol-O-methyl-transferase, which metabolizes serotonin and norepinephrine in The stuff’s expensive as hell, I have no drug coverage, and there’s no way I can do a master’s thesis in September if I’m sleeping more than I’m awake. If I want back on flight operations, I have to lose the drugs that could affect my ability to control an aircraft. So today I’m at the doctor’s and he tells me that if I quit the stuff, I’m almost guaranteed to relapse.
Too many psychiatrists are overly fixated on single drugs or drug classes. They seem to fixate on the newest drugs, rather than older ones that can be quite effective — and usually much cheaper. IIRC, a month’s supply of nortriptyline is around USD $10. TCAs fall into two families, the first drug of one class being amitriptyline and the first drug of the second being imipramine. The second group tends to be less sedating, although you can usually minimize sedation by changing drugs within the same group. I’m in my 20s. I don’t want to be on this crap for the rest of my life. Hell, the concept of being stuck on drugs is one of the big reasons I left my depression untreated until I became a menace to people around me as well as myself. I think I know the symptoms well enough–if I start inflicting injury on myself and viewing life through a red rage haze, it’s time to go back on the pills. I was depressed, I think, since about age 4 or so, but during that time I only had two severe (ie, want-to-kill-myself) episodes, and those 8 years apart. The minor rounds I could handle without chemical interference. At that rate, it’d be 2013 before I needed pills again. That’s a lot of money and a lot of drug-free years.
That may be perfectly good reasoning. Having someone that can get creative with the drugs, seeking less sedating and cheaper alternatives, also can be valid. That red haze is starting to creep back a little, since the doc didn’t in any way suggest that this was a "for the rest of my life" kind of thing until just now. I feel like I’ve gotten suckered into this situation, and that pisses me off.
Personally, I don’t have a "rest of my life" concern with psychotropic drugs, any more than my cardiac drugs — _IF_ they are appropriately prescribed with plenty of thought.
<very gently snipped My daughter was also put on Effexor, but for depression. She wanted to
get off of them too, but couldn’t, not even with a gradual withdrawal (as soon as she missed one dose she would have horrible, severe flu-like symptoms. Hi Nipped, That is one of the symptoms I had when I first stepped down the dosage – major flu like symptoms, and extremely exhausted. I am now over that, but it took almost a month. My dr. said it was a Fibromyalgia flare, and it was because the Effexor had been controlling the symptoms and it wasn’t any more. Honestly, I felt WORSE after this drug than I ever did before as far as the fibro went. It is like it exacerbated it, rather than controlling it. Thanks for the tip on ClaritinD – I will most certainly try it. Patti
Hi Nipped, That is one of the symptoms I had when I first stepped down the dosage – major flu like symptoms, and extremely exhausted. I am now over that, but it took almost a month. My dr. said it was a Fibromyalgia flare, and it was because the Effexor had been controlling the symptoms and it wasn’t any more. Honestly, I felt WORSE after this drug than I ever did before as far as the fibro went. It is like it exacerbated it, rather than controlling
it. Yeah, for me too. I really didn’t feel any diminishment of pain from the fibro while I was on the Effexor. It *did* help the depression that was caused by the fibro (finding out that you’re going to be in constant pain for the rest of your life can be quite depressing). And you’re right, the pain during withdrawals was definitely worse than the pain I had before I started taking it. I really don’t know why they haven’t taken this drug off the market – there’s beeen thousands of complaints to the FDA about it. I think there’s been some *marjor* payoffs regarding this golden goose of the drug company that manufactures it. Hugs, CatNipped – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks for the tip on ClaritinD – I will most certainly try it. Patti
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This is my first vent here… I want to get off the Effexor I’ve been taking for depression for almost a year now. I’ve been more stable than DP’s seen me to be in the past 8 years, in the last 6 months. Unfortunately, in those last 6 months I also sleep about 12 hours a day, and occasionally I get this "Stoned" sensation where stuff gets blurry and I have trouble thinking of words or figuring out just where I am…I’ll wander and then snap out of my reverie like, two hours later, wondering where the time went. The stuff’s expensive as hell, I have no drug coverage, and there’s no way I can do a master’s thesis in September if I’m sleeping more than I’m awake. If I want back on flight operations, I have to lose the drugs that could affect my ability to control an aircraft. So today I’m at the doctor’s and he tells me that if I quit the stuff, I’m almost guaranteed to relapse. DP’s afraid I will, sometime when no one’s around to stop me from cutting my throat–or someone else’s. I’m in my 20s. I don’t want to be on this crap for the rest of my life. Hell, the concept of being stuck on drugs is one of the big reasons I left my depression untreated until I became a menace to people around me as well as myself. I think I know the symptoms well enough–if I start inflicting injury on myself and viewing life through a red rage haze, it’s time to go back on the pills. I was depressed, I think, since about age 4 or so, but during that time I only had two severe (ie, want-to-kill-myself) episodes, and those 8 years apart. The minor rounds I could handle without chemical interference. At that rate, it’d be 2013 before I needed pills again. That’s a lot of money and a lot of drug-free years. That red haze is starting to creep back a little, since the doc didn’t in any way suggest that this was a "for the rest of my life" kind of thing until just now. I feel like I’ve gotten suckered into this situation, and that pisses me off. –Enfilade
Hi Enfilade, Effexor is a big time drug to be on for depression – it is usually used for major depression and even some psychotic disorders. I understand that you want off of the medication because you feel good now – but remember, that is the medication helping you to feel better and control your depression. If you are wanting to try something that won’t turn you into a zombie, ask your doctor about weaning off of it, while being started on something else. If you are taken off of medication completely and you begin to relapse, you could spiral downward before a new drug takes effect (anti-depressants usually take 3-4 weeks before full effect is reached). The consequesnces of that far outweight the benefits of being "drug-free." Also, a relapse is usually worse once being taken off of a medication because of the major changes in the chemicals in your brain… Please be careful I know there is a stigma attached to being on medication for depression, but it is an illness…. Really think of the benefits of the medication vesus the possible results of being off of the medication. Talk to your doc first about switching to a different kind, one that still helps your symptoms, but with less side effects. Good luck
This is my first vent here… I want to get off the Effexor I’ve been taking for depression for almost a year now. I’ve been more stable than DP’s seen me to be in the past 8 years, in the last 6 months. Unfortunately, in those last 6 months I also sleep about 12 hours a day, and occasionally I get this "Stoned" sensation where stuff gets blurry and I have trouble thinking of words or figuring out just where I am…I’ll wander and then snap out of my reverie like, two hours later, wondering where the time went. The stuff’s expensive as hell, I have no drug coverage, and there’s no way I can do a master’s thesis in September if I’m sleeping more than I’m awake. If I want back on flight operations, I have to lose the drugs that could affect my ability to control an aircraft. So today I’m at the doctor’s and he tells me that if I quit the stuff, I’m almost guaranteed to relapse. DP’s afraid I will, sometime when no one’s around to stop me from cutting my throat–or someone else’s. I’m in my 20s. I don’t want to be on this crap for the rest of my life. Hell, the concept of being stuck on drugs is one of the big reasons I left my depression untreated until I became a menace to people around me as well as myself. I think I know the symptoms well enough–if I start inflicting injury on myself and viewing life through a red rage haze, it’s time to go back on the pills. I was depressed, I think, since about age 4 or so, but during that time I only had two severe (ie, want-to-kill-myself) episodes, and those 8 years apart. The minor rounds I could handle without chemical interference. At that rate, it’d be 2013 before I needed pills again. That’s a lot of money and a lot of drug-free years. That red haze is starting to creep back a little, since the doc didn’t in any way suggest that this was a "for the rest of my life" kind of thing until just now. I feel like I’ve gotten suckered into this situation, and that pisses me off. –Enfilade Hi Fil, I have been on Effexor for about 3 years, and am now in the process of stepping down the dose in order to quit. I was having some of the same symptoms as you – the feeling of ‘not being there’ is one major one, and the just not caring about things. Plus, I am one of the 5 to 10% that develop high blood pressure while taking it. 
I finally told my doc that I WAS going to d/c this, with or without his help. He finally agreed, with the proviso that if I become depressed again I would tell him. It hasn’t been completely easy, but at least I am able to feel again. I hope you can get your dr. to take you off this, and that everything goes ok! Patti
Michelle: I also have chronic sinus problems and allergy problems. I am taking 3 different allergy meds a day and 2 sinus sprays also a day. Lately my sinuses and allergies are driving me nuts because of our current Marine layer we have here in San Diego and also my mom was cleaning the bathroom with Clorox and that is driving my sinuses and allergies nuts!!! Barbara Booth
I wonder…did you ever find any way to deal with the rhinitis? I’ve had that problem for about four years now…drives me crazy. Nasal sprays make me really ill, so for now I just carry lots of Kleenex. Michelle
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks folks. I’m having problems with the Remeron, and I have split the 15 mg tab into halves; I’m trying 7.5mg at night; I’ll give it another 3 to 4 days before I probably quit it. The Remeron in low dosage is causing an almost constant aura (pre-migraine feeling), and it is really causing me to feel very groggy (a very heavy – almost sinus congested feeling- balloon head)too much of the time. I may even try a quarter tablet for the sleep relief. I will mention the things you all have suggested (esp. the Lexapro). I’ve suffered major depression with migraines now for a minimum of 6 years— if one isn’t bad enough! All my life I suffered Rhinitis and Sinusitis; so, for several years the migraines were mistaken for terrible sinus headaches. When I saw an article that maybe 45% of all so called sinus headaches were really migraines, I finally told the doctors to treat me for migraines with Imitrex. Damn, if I wasn’t right. I had visited the best ENT doctors in my state, and non of them even mentioned or suggested I might be having migraines. The link between the antidepressants was found by me; not the doctors. It shows you that ignorance certainly is not bliss in the case of health — most probably anything. Years ago I insisted I had a herniated spinal disk; the doctors wouldn’t listen. I finally insisted on a mylogram (? sp); yep, I had surgery the next week or so. I’m sure some of the folks who have suffered excruciating migraines with out relief have developed depression because of so much trauma. Treat your depression early if you think you might have it. After the 4th major episode you’ll be on meds the rest of your life if you can tolerate them. I believe mine was expressed early (after Vietnam), but I stayed in denial until chronic pain(my back from later injury and Repetitive Use Syndrome) caught up with me later in life. God bless and good luck to you all. Sincerely — Randy — "the Randyman" I’m particularly interested in what migraine relief medication can be used safely with Remeron. Antidepressants do trigger my migraines, but I’m trying a small dosage of Remeron to help with sleep problems; also, I’m hoping for some partial relief from my pathological condition. All antidepressant medicines seem to trigger migraines when I take enough of the med to actually provide clinical relief; this strange phenomena happened after an Effexor trial. I’ve tried all the ammo out there. I’m damned if I do or don’t take antidepressants now. Oh— I can’t take NSAIDs either; they trigger migraines also. Acetametaphen and oxycodone are my only relief now; it is very little relief most of the time. Thanks for reading, and if you have any suggestions what I should do to get relief for my migraines, please post it. Sincerely — Randyman
Yes I finally have found relief with many trials of meds, but like I said in my last post " All my life I suffered Rhinitis and Sinusitis; so, for several years the migraines were mistaken for terrible sinus headaches." The odd thing was the pain I felt across the face( mainly between and around the eyes – also deep inside the nasal passages). I mistook the pain for sinus related when it was not; the same pain producing nerves deep in the nose also are involved with migraines in many folks. The migration of pain was the telltale symptom which made me understand what was really going on; it was migraines (maybe with or without sinus problems). I suffer severely from vaso-motor rhinitis; if I go into a smoky environment without a filtering mask (I use charcoal impregnated 3M paper masks -3M 8247, and they really help me) I might suffer for 1-3 days. I use the nasal spray Nasacort and the anti-histamine nasal spray Astelin. I recently discovered that taking Allegra tabs (60 mg fexafenadine) really relieved the facial migraines, but not the migraines as a whole. My eyes and nasal areas were not involved nearly as much after I took fexafenadine after a week. I gave up on the fexafenadine about a year ago after a few days use, but this time(late this summer and early fall) I tried for over a week; I finally started to get relief from my facial migraine involvement. Now when I get a migraine they just migrate around the head without as much eye nose involvement. I’ve tried all the saline irrigation stuff; it never helped. I have not had a sinus infection since March 2003. I suggest saline nasal spray and saline gel (brand "Ayr") to keep the nasal membranes from drying out; I especially moisten inside my nose before I go to bed at night. The antidepressants Nortriptyline, Trazadone, Prozac, Effexor XR, Remeron, Wellbutrin, Ritalin, Serzone, Paxil, Celexa, Luvox, Zoloft, and Amytriptyline have caused my migraines. I have tried some several times (esp. this year), and before I get to a medicating dose I usually suffer migraine symptoms. Amytriptyline made me ill for over a week with migraines even after stopping the drug — truly a hellish experience of migraines. Back to the sinus problems, I try to avoid situations I know will cause me problems. Late summer and fall are usually bad times for me; so, I try to stay indoors as much as possible—-really a screwing because the weather is so nice. I was tested several times for allergies (the 25 most common allergens), and all was negative. There is some allergen involved because this period of time has always been my period for the worst sinus problem with frequent infections. My sinus problems [esp. vaso-motor rhinitis reactors (ex. smoke, and petroleum smells)], most all antidepressants, NSAIDs (aspirin and other nonsteroidal anti inflammatory drugs), and diazepam are migraine triggers to me. I’m very lucky that the VA is helping me now (I couldn’t get help in the late 70’s or 80’s). The health care in the USA is our country’s largest disgrace; it must be changed for the better. 43 million people without health insurance is horrendous; it is even more so when we consider our country as the leading world power. 84 billion dollars sure could help some sick folks here. Our country should be brought up on charges of cruelty and inhuman treatments in some world court. We seem to be generous except with our own people. Our social service system is overwhelmed by the influx of legal and illegal aliens; our country is NO longer a vast wilderness needing pioneers to settle it. Look at our country from a satellite view at night, and see our consumption of power. See how rich we were, and how debt ridden we are getting. Now, right wing gung ho capitalists and impractical liberals alike want the cheap labor the hordes of immigrants can bring. Remember when we talked about population control in the world (late sixties), and we discussed aiming for zero population growth. I guess over population of the world will happen because of politics and religion; the world is doomed because of this. Look at what’s happening with the polar ice cap and read about the effects of all that fresh water pouring into the upper Atlantic. I’m glad I live now instead of 100 years in the future. I guess I have too much time to think——gee I wonder why we talk about Arnold instead of something or someone of substance. Back to sinuses — *<];o)) Sincerely — Randymann
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Michelle: I also have chronic sinus problems and allergy problems. I am taking 3 different allergy meds a day and 2 sinus sprays also a day. Lately my sinuses and allergies are driving me nuts because of our current Marine layer we have here in San Diego and also my mom was cleaning the bathroom with Clorox and that is driving my sinuses and allergies nuts!!! Barbara Booth
the same pain producing nerves deep in the nose also are involved with migraines in many folks.
That’s very interesting to hear you say that, because many time when I have a migraine, it hurts to breath on the right side (my migraines are usually on the right) of my nostril- the air going up my nose actually causes pain. I hope I explained this coherently- my doctor looks at me like I’m nuts when I tell him this! SueS
Thanks folks. I’m having problems with the Remeron, and I have split the 15 mg tab into halves; I’m trying 7.5mg at night; I’ll give it another 3 to 4 days before I probably quit it. The Remeron in low dosage is causing an almost constant aura (pre-migraine feeling), and it is really causing me to feel very groggy (a very heavy – almost sinus congested feeling- balloon head)too much of the time. I may even try a quarter tablet for the sleep relief. I will mention the things you all have suggested (esp. the Lexapro). I’ve suffered major depression with migraines now for a minimum of 6 years— if one isn’t bad enough! All my life I suffered Rhinitis and Sinusitis; so, for several years the migraines were mistaken for terrible sinus headaches. When I saw an article that maybe 45% of all so called sinus headaches were really migraines, I finally told the doctors to treat me for migraines with Imitrex. Damn, if I wasn’t right. I had visited the best ENT doctors in my state, and non of them even mentioned or suggested I might be having migraines. The link between the antidepressants was found by me; not the doctors. It shows you that ignorance certainly is not bliss in the case of health — most probably anything. Years ago I insisted I had a herniated spinal disk; the doctors wouldn’t listen. I finally insisted on a mylogram (? sp); yep, I had surgery the next week or so. I’m sure some of the folks who have suffered excruciating migraines with out relief have developed depression because of so much trauma. Treat your depression early if you think you might have it. After the 4th major episode you’ll be on meds the rest of your life if you can tolerate them. I believe mine was expressed early (after Vietnam), but I stayed in denial until chronic pain(my back from later injury and Repetitive Use Syndrome) caught up with me later in life. God bless and good luck to you all. Sincerely — Randy — "the Randyman"
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m particularly interested in what migraine relief medication can be used safely with Remeron. Antidepressants do trigger my migraines, but I’m trying a small dosage of Remeron to help with sleep problems; also, I’m hoping for some partial relief from my pathological condition. All antidepressant medicines seem to trigger migraines when I take enough of the med to actually provide clinical relief; this strange phenomena happened after an Effexor trial. I’ve tried all the ammo out there. I’m damned if I do or don’t take antidepressants now. Oh— I can’t take NSAIDs either; they trigger migraines also. Acetametaphen and oxycodone are my only relief now; it is very little relief most of the time. Thanks for reading, and if you have any suggestions what I should do to get relief for my migraines, please post it. Sincerely — Randyman
Interesting and worth remembering. Thanks for sharing the info. Michelle
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have the same problem with SSRI’s. They give me Chronic Daily Headaches (CDH) and make me more prone to migraines. I finally hit on Seroquel based on some input in this group and it works very well. I’ve also been able to wean onto Lexapro which has done wonders for my depression and a minor feat in it’s own right. Seroquel is an atypical anti-psychotic, but also perscribed for mood stabilization and helps stablize andrenergic charges which often results in CDH. For the first time in my 30+ years, I have a perfect sleep pattern. Worth a try if all else fails. Erik I’m particularly interested in what migraine relief medication can be used safely with Remeron. Antidepressants do trigger my migraines, but I’m trying a small dosage of Remeron to help with sleep problems; also, I’m hoping for some partial relief from my pathological condition. All antidepressant medicines seem to trigger migraines when I take enough of the med to actually provide clinical relief; this strange phenomena happened after an Effexor trial. I’ve tried all the ammo out there. I’m damned if I do or don’t take antidepressants now. Oh— I can’t take NSAIDs either; they trigger migraines also. Acetametaphen and oxycodone are my only relief now; it is very little relief most of the time. Thanks for reading, and if you have any suggestions what I should do to get relief for my migraines, please post it. Sincerely — Randyman
I have the same problem with SSRI’s. They give me Chronic Daily Headaches (CDH) and make me more prone to migraines. I finally hit on Seroquel based on some input in this group and it works very well. I’ve also been able to wean onto Lexapro which has done wonders for my depression and a minor feat in it’s own right. Seroquel is an atypical anti-psychotic, but also perscribed for mood stabilization and helps stablize andrenergic charges which often results in CDH. For the first time in my 30+ years, I have a perfect sleep pattern. Worth a try if all else fails. Erik – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m particularly interested in what migraine relief medication can be used safely with Remeron. Antidepressants do trigger my migraines, but I’m trying a small dosage of Remeron to help with sleep problems; also, I’m hoping for some partial relief from my pathological condition. All antidepressant medicines seem to trigger migraines when I take enough of the med to actually provide clinical relief; this strange phenomena happened after an Effexor trial. I’ve tried all the ammo out there. I’m damned if I do or don’t take antidepressants now. Oh— I can’t take NSAIDs either; they trigger migraines also. Acetametaphen and oxycodone are my only relief now; it is very little relief most of the time. Thanks for reading, and if you have any suggestions what I should do to get relief for my migraines, please post it. Sincerely — Randyman
Have you tried the triptans like Imitrex, Zomig, Maxalt, Frova, Relpax, Amerge, Axert? Also, have you tried Lexapro as an antidepressant. It’s supposed to be a newer, better med. Just some thoughts. Michelle
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m particularly interested in what migraine relief medication can be used safely with Remeron. Antidepressants do trigger my migraines, but I’m trying a small dosage of Remeron to help with sleep problems; also, I’m hoping for some partial relief from my pathological condition. All antidepressant medicines seem to trigger migraines when I take enough of the med to actually provide clinical relief; this strange phenomena happened after an Effexor trial. I’ve tried all the ammo out there. I’m damned if I do or don’t take antidepressants now. Oh— I can’t take NSAIDs either; they trigger migraines also. Acetametaphen and oxycodone are my only relief now; it is very little relief most of the time. Thanks for reading, and if you have any suggestions what I should do to get relief for my migraines, please post it. Sincerely — Randyman
I’m particularly interested in what migraine relief medication can be used safely with Remeron. Antidepressants do trigger my migraines, but I’m trying a small dosage of Remeron to help with sleep problems; also, I’m hoping for some partial relief from my pathological condition. All antidepressant medicines seem to trigger migraines when I take enough of the med to actually provide clinical relief; this strange phenomena happened after an Effexor trial. I’ve tried all the ammo out there. I’m damned if I do or don’t take antidepressants now. Oh— I can’t take NSAIDs either; they trigger migraines also. Acetametaphen and oxycodone are my only relief now; it is very little relief most of the time. Thanks for reading, and if you have any suggestions what I should do to get relief for my migraines, please post it. Sincerely — Randyman
Hello Jeff, Seroxat and Paxil are two names for the same drug. The name Seroxat is used in the UK and Paxil, I believe, is what it’s called in the US. Sorry about the confusion. Before the cross posters arrived, quite suddenly it appeared, this was a great group. I started posting on 13th of December last and found that the group helped me greatly over the overwhelmingly miserable period during Christmas and the New Year. What I’m leading up to is that reading the post here and better still posting messages is highly therapeutic and is what I would recommend that you do but sadly the group no longer functions the way it did. Cormac’s suggestion is a good one if you can find a support group. I’m certain there are many such groups in the US but a lot depends on the nature of the support group and the particular way you interact with such a group. We are all different and I can go to a support group here in Dublin but I’m not at all happy with the way it’s run. The fella who set up the group effectively controls the group and I object strongly to this but am afraid to say anything to the psychologist in the hospital where the support group is based about the situation as I see it. The fella who runs the support group and the psychologist are great friends and if I said anything I can almost hear the psychologist ask me now why do I feel this way and I’m sure I would get nowhere and end up banging my head off the wall. Be wary in support groups. You will meet all types and I know from personal experience you may meet folks there who will use you if the conditions are right for that. That is exactly what happened to me. A long time member of the group homed in on me and ended up bullying me in a most insidious way. So, Jeff, beware in the support group setting. As the student who was treating me using CBT told me as she told me I could join the support I would meet all types in the support group. I thought what a strange thing to say. Are we not all on each other’s side I asked myself. The frightening answer is no. Peter Nolan. To email please remove x from xpeter…@gofree.indigo.ie
Hello Jeff, I’m attempting to send the message below a second time. It never made it first time round. — Peter Nolan. To email please remove x from xpeter…@gofree.indigo.ie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
Hello Jeff, Seroxat and Paxil are two names for the same drug. The name Seroxat is
used
in the UK and Paxil, I believe, is what it’s called in the US. Sorry about the confusion. Before the cross posters arrived, quite suddenly it appeared, this was a great group. I started posting on 13th of December last and found that the group helped me greatly over the overwhelmingly miserable period during Christmas and the New Year. What I’m leading up to is that reading the
post
here and better still posting messages is highly therapeutic and is what I would recommend that you do but sadly the group no longer functions the
way
it did. Cormac’s suggestion is a good one if you can find a support group. I’m certain there are many such groups in the US but a lot depends on the
nature
of the support group and the particular way you interact with such a
group.
We are all different and I can go to a support group here in Dublin but
I’m
not at all happy with the way it’s run. The fella who set up the group effectively controls the group and I object strongly to this but am afraid to say anything to the psychologist in the hospital where the support
group
is based about the situation as I see it. The fella who runs the support group and the psychologist are great friends and if I said anything I can almost hear the psychologist ask me now why do I feel this way and I’m
sure
I would get nowhere and end up banging my head off the wall. Be wary in support groups. You will meet all types and I know from
personal
experience you may meet folks there who will use you if the conditions are right for that. That is exactly what happened to me. A long time member of the group homed in on me and ended up bullying me in a most insidious way. So, Jeff, beware in the support group setting. As the student who was treating me using CBT told me as she told me I could join the support I would meet all types in the support group. I thought what a strange thing
to
say. Are we not all on each other’s side I asked myself. The frightening answer is no. Peter Nolan. To email please remove x from xpeter…@gofree.indigo.ie
Check the website www.socialanxietyinstitute.org I find it extremly helpful. Consider joining a support group – mentioned in the web site. Jeff <jeff9…@hotmail.com
wrote in message
news:7eb49709.0204152150.287da20e@posting.google.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
I’m not sure anyone will see this or respond, but at minimum this posting will let me organize my thoughts and try to explain my situation. I’m male, 31 years old, and have lived with debilitating social anxiety for as long as I can remember, long before there were slick TV commercials for marginally effective pharmaceuticals to treat the disorder. I saw my first psychiatrist when I was 18, who told me I was a nice guy and would have a great life, just stop worrying so much. By the time I was 24 I finally worked up the courage to talk to a doctor about my depression and social anxiety, and went through the usual suspects with less than impressive results: Zoloft, Serzone, Effexor, Moclobemide. Then I contracted mono (great, what were the chances of that for a 27 year old virgin). That completely knocked me out for several months. Through my doctor, I finally got a referral to a good psychiatrist who diagnosed me with social anxiety disorder, generalized anxiety disorder and depression. He put me on Parnate and Klonopin, and I was pleasantly surprised, because I actually felt better than I’d ever felt in my entire life. I looked forward to my day… the pounding heart and sweaty palms went away, I didn’t think everyone was staring at me, and I could go out to social functions without getting incredibly nervous. The dietary restrictions for Parnate were a minor inconvenience. So were the sleep disturbances/minor insomnia. My life became almost normal. I went out with friends. I know, I know, you aren’t supposed to feel better just from meds… it takes lots of CBT and hard work. My experience, even with good therapists says that is not true. I’ve read the books, and understand all the distortions and negative thought patterns that pass through my mind. But being aware of them, and being able to get them under control are two separate things. I just have this brain chemistry that kicks in so strongly that the power of thought is not enough. One year later, after relocating to the US, I mentioned the insomnia to my doctor and she said it was caused by depression, and tripled the dose of Parnate, and also suggested ECT, which I declined. I didn’t sleep properly for days, and got extremely sick with a bacterial infection, probably because I was so tired and my immune system went on a vacation. It scared me so much that I took myself off Parnate and Klonopin (tapered) without consulting my doctor, who I no longer trusted. This was the worst decision of my life (and I’ve made a lot of bad decisions). After a few weeks, I quickly realized my error after I started returning to my old ways of hiding out in my apartment avoiding everyone. Since then, I’ve been dragged through unsuccessful courses of Prozac, Effexor (yuck) and Wellbutrin (double yuck). I can tolerate side effects, but generally expect to feel better rather than worse. That all ended about two years ago, when I gave up on meds and doctors who have a kneejerk reaction of try Paxil… try Effexor… or whatever drug-du-jour is being peddled. So I’ve put myself in a terrible position. The only thing that ever worked for me was a MAOI, and nobody wants to prescribe that. Or a scheduled drug like Klonopin. Probably now I’m profiled as exhibiting drug-seeking behavior. But that seems odd since I have old unused prescriptions for both of the above sitting in the back of my medicine cabinet, as well as random assortments of various drugs sufficient to kill a horse. So, two years of being med-free, practicing meditation daily, and lots of aerobic exercise have not helped, and I am a complete isolated hopeless nervous mess. When I went to my doctor last week for a sinus infection, I mentioned that I used to be on Parnate, and she said she couldn’t believe anyone prescribed that anymore, and proceeded to explain how great SSRIs are. I just shut up, went home and took my antibiotics. I don’t know what to do. Money is not an issue. I just want to somehow get out of this mess. I don’t look forward to anything… I can barely go out to buy groceries. It really hurts me at work. I may skip an old friend’s wedding because I don’t think I can handle it. Not sure what to do. I think good psychiatrists are hard to find- I can’t imagine anyone wanting to take on a case like mine. It seems like there is really no way out of this. I’m just so tired of life being a constant struggle with getting nervous talking to anyone… I’m getting way too old for this. I’m not suicidal, but wouldn’t be terribly upset if I were run over by a truck tomorrow. Yes, touching, I know. If you’ve made it this far, I apologize for my rambling. If you can think of any way to get out of this mess, let me know. I can’t even think of a first step that isn’t destined for failure. Jeff psychiatrist I feel trapped in my apartment now and need help, but can’t figure out how to proceed. My last attempt was several
Thanks Peter, Doug, and kicken for your thoughtful responses. I am going to get in touch with my doctor back in Canada, to see if he can help me out with some sort of letter of introduction. I had been a patient of his for several years, so there’s a good possibility he can help out. Even the doctor in the US who tripled my dose of Parnate may be able to help out, and at least attest to the fact that I was doing okay. I’m also going to write/phone local psychiatrists to determine if one of them has experience prescribing Parnate. Failing that, Peter mentioned a Seroxat/Paxil combo that I have not tried before, which sounds like it may be worth a try, though I am skeptical because of lack of success with anything other than a MAOI. The worst part is that the disease itself is a real hindrance to finding treatment, because my behavior is just so avoidant. Also, I always feel that it’s not taken seriously, like any of the more popular/trendy psychological disorders. After all, I’m no threat to anyone, and I’m not experiencing any specific crisis. At least now I have some concrete ideas on how to proceed – thanks all for the ideas on how to get out of this rut. Jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -gd…@aug.com (Doug) wrote in message <news:3cbd5389.2725248@news.aug.com
… Jeff, At this point, it sounds like a plan would be to get back on the Parnate and Klonopin which you said you gave up on. What are the possibilities of writing the doctor again who originally prescribed the Parnate and the Klonopin? I believe s/he’s in another country now? so this may be impossible. If you could and sent your posted letter with your cover letter, you might have a fairly good chance of at least getting a letter of introduction for another doctor. This may be impractical, but what about trying to see the U.S. doctor who tripled the Parnate dose. I mean there are at least 2 doctors who weren’t averse to prescribing Parnate and Klonopin for you. The 2nd doctor could be a definite maybe. Even if you can’t see this doctor because of distance, could you write a letter to her explaining what you’re going thru and request her to write a letter of introduction "To Whom It May Concern" (some unknown doctor as yet) that explains what you’ve tried, what worked and what her recommendation is. I did this when I relocated to another state in the U.S. several months ago and the introductory letter did help. I’ve been able to continue taking the same meds, but I’m under a little tighter control right now than I was previously. That could be changed by seeking out a new shrink or by possibly asking my new family GP if he’d be willing to take over the prescriptions. If none of the above is practical, you can write your own letter of introduction, using most, if not all of what you wrote in this post and make an appt. with a new psychiatrist. Your post is very explicit so I’d include it too. Good luck. Doug
Hi Jeff, I’m also 31 and have social phobia and depression probably my whole life. I’ve been on almost every med and combo and other treatments and Parnate is the only one to give some relief also. I do get frustrated at times about some side-effects and that it might not be working enough, then I go off and see how much worse I get and go back on. I would try finding a Dr. in your area that has experience prescribing MAOI’s. It’s rule of thumb to go back to what has helped in the past. I hope you find a good Dr. willing to give it to you and hope you feel better. I’ve been on and off of Parnate for almost a decade. I hope to get better to all the time. Take care B jeff9…@hotmail.com (Jeff) wrote in message
<news:7eb49709.0204152150.287da20e@posting.google.com
…
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
I’m not sure anyone will see this or respond, but at minimum this posting will let me organize my thoughts and try to explain my situation. I’m male, 31 years old, and have lived with debilitating social anxiety for as long as I can remember, long before there were slick TV commercials for marginally effective pharmaceuticals to treat the disorder. I saw my first psychiatrist when I was 18, who told me I was a nice guy and would have a great life, just stop worrying so much. By the time I was 24 I finally worked up the courage to talk to a doctor about my depression and social anxiety, and went through the usual suspects with less than impressive results: Zoloft, Serzone, Effexor, Moclobemide. Then I contracted mono (great, what were the chances of that for a 27 year old virgin). That completely knocked me out for several months. Through my doctor, I finally got a referral to a good psychiatrist who diagnosed me with social anxiety disorder, generalized anxiety disorder and depression. He put me on Parnate and Klonopin, and I was pleasantly surprised, because I actually felt better than I’d ever felt in my entire life. I looked forward to my day… the pounding heart and sweaty palms went away, I didn’t think everyone was staring at me, and I could go out to social functions without getting incredibly nervous. The dietary restrictions for Parnate were a minor inconvenience. So were the sleep disturbances/minor insomnia. My life became almost normal. I went out with friends. I know, I know, you aren’t supposed to feel better just from meds… it takes lots of CBT and hard work. My experience, even with good therapists says that is not true. I’ve read the books, and understand all the distortions and negative thought patterns that pass through my mind. But being aware of them, and being able to get them under control are two separate things. I just have this brain chemistry that kicks in so strongly that the power of thought is not enough. One year later, after relocating to the US, I mentioned the insomnia to my doctor and she said it was caused by depression, and tripled the dose of Parnate, and also suggested ECT, which I declined. I didn’t sleep properly for days, and got extremely sick with a bacterial infection, probably because I was so tired and my immune system went on a vacation. It scared me so much that I took myself off Parnate and Klonopin (tapered) without consulting my doctor, who I no longer trusted. This was the worst decision of my life (and I’ve made a lot of bad decisions). After a few weeks, I quickly realized my error after I started returning to my old ways of hiding out in my apartment avoiding everyone. Since then, I’ve been dragged through unsuccessful courses of Prozac, Effexor (yuck) and Wellbutrin (double yuck). I can tolerate side effects, but generally expect to feel better rather than worse. That all ended about two years ago, when I gave up on meds and doctors who have a kneejerk reaction of try Paxil… try Effexor… or whatever drug-du-jour is being peddled. So I’ve put myself in a terrible position. The only thing that ever worked for me was a MAOI, and nobody wants to prescribe that. Or a scheduled drug like Klonopin. Probably now I’m profiled as exhibiting drug-seeking behavior. But that seems odd since I have old unused prescriptions for both of the above sitting in the back of my medicine cabinet, as well as random assortments of various drugs sufficient to kill a horse. So, two years of being med-free, practicing meditation daily, and lots of aerobic exercise have not helped, and I am a complete isolated hopeless nervous mess. When I went to my doctor last week for a sinus infection, I mentioned that I used to be on Parnate, and she said she couldn’t believe anyone prescribed that anymore, and proceeded to explain how great SSRIs are. I just shut up, went home and took my antibiotics. I don’t know what to do. Money is not an issue. I just want to somehow get out of this mess. I don’t look forward to anything… I can barely go out to buy groceries. It really hurts me at work. I may skip an old friend’s wedding because I don’t think I can handle it. Not sure what to do. I think good psychiatrists are hard to find- I can’t imagine anyone wanting to take on a case like mine. It seems like there is really no way out of this. I’m just so tired of life being a constant struggle with getting nervous talking to anyone… I’m getting way too old for this. I’m not suicidal, but wouldn’t be terribly upset if I were run over by a truck tomorrow. Yes, touching, I know. If you’ve made it this far, I apologize for my rambling. If you can think of any way to get out of this mess, let me know. I can’t even think of a first step that isn’t destined for failure. Jeff psychiatrist I feel trapped in my apartment now and need help, but can’t figure out how to proceed. My last attempt was several
Jeff, At this point, it sounds like a plan would be to get back on the Parnate and Klonopin which you said you gave up on. What are the possibilities of writing the doctor again who originally prescribed the Parnate and the Klonopin? I believe s/he’s in another country now? so this may be impossible. If you could and sent your posted letter with your cover letter, you might have a fairly good chance of at least getting a letter of introduction for another doctor. This may be impractical, but what about trying to see the U.S. doctor who tripled the Parnate dose. I mean there are at least 2 doctors who weren’t averse to prescribing Parnate and Klonopin for you. The 2nd doctor could be a definite maybe. Even if you can’t see this doctor because of distance, could you write a letter to her explaining what you’re going thru and request her to write a letter of introduction "To Whom It May Concern" (some unknown doctor as yet) that explains what you’ve tried, what worked and what her recommendation is. I did this when I relocated to another state in the U.S. several months ago and the introductory letter did help. I’ve been able to continue taking the same meds, but I’m under a little tighter control right now than I was previously. That could be changed by seeking out a new shrink or by possibly asking my new family GP if he’d be willing to take over the prescriptions. If none of the above is practical, you can write your own letter of introduction, using most, if not all of what you wrote in this post and make an appt. with a new psychiatrist. Your post is very explicit so I’d include it too. Good luck. Doug On 15 Apr 2002 22:50:24 -0700, jeff9…@hotmail.com (Jeff) wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
I’m not sure anyone will see this or respond, but at minimum this posting will let me organize my thoughts and try to explain my situation. I’m male, 31 years old, and have lived with debilitating social anxiety for as long as I can remember, long before there were slick TV commercials for marginally effective pharmaceuticals to treat the disorder. I saw my first psychiatrist when I was 18, who told me I was a nice guy and would have a great life, just stop worrying so much. By the time I was 24 I finally worked up the courage to talk to a doctor about my depression and social anxiety, and went through the usual suspects with less than impressive results: Zoloft, Serzone, Effexor, Moclobemide. Then I contracted mono (great, what were the chances of that for a 27 year old virgin). That completely knocked me out for several months. Through my doctor, I finally got a referral to a good psychiatrist who diagnosed me with social anxiety disorder, generalized anxiety disorder and depression. He put me on Parnate and Klonopin, and I was pleasantly surprised, because I actually felt better than I’d ever felt in my entire life. I looked forward to my day… the pounding heart and sweaty palms went away, I didn’t think everyone was staring at me, and I could go out to social functions without getting incredibly nervous. The dietary restrictions for Parnate were a minor inconvenience. So were the sleep disturbances/minor insomnia. My life became almost normal. I went out with friends. I know, I know, you aren’t supposed to feel better just from meds… it takes lots of CBT and hard work. My experience, even with good therapists says that is not true. I’ve read the books, and understand all the distortions and negative thought patterns that pass through my mind. But being aware of them, and being able to get them under control are two separate things. I just have this brain chemistry that kicks in so strongly that the power of thought is not enough. One year later, after relocating to the US, I mentioned the insomnia to my doctor and she said it was caused by depression, and tripled the dose of Parnate, and also suggested ECT, which I declined. I didn’t sleep properly for days, and got extremely sick with a bacterial infection, probably because I was so tired and my immune system went on a vacation. It scared me so much that I took myself off Parnate and Klonopin (tapered) without consulting my doctor, who I no longer trusted. This was the worst decision of my life (and I’ve made a lot of bad decisions). After a few weeks, I quickly realized my error after I started returning to my old ways of hiding out in my apartment avoiding everyone. Since then, I’ve been dragged through unsuccessful courses of Prozac, Effexor (yuck) and Wellbutrin (double yuck). I can tolerate side effects, but generally expect to feel better rather than worse. That all ended about two years ago, when I gave up on meds and doctors who have a kneejerk reaction of try Paxil… try Effexor… or whatever drug-du-jour is being peddled. So I’ve put myself in a terrible position. The only thing that ever worked for me was a MAOI, and nobody wants to prescribe that. Or a scheduled drug like Klonopin. Probably now I’m profiled as exhibiting drug-seeking behavior. But that seems odd since I have old unused prescriptions for both of the above sitting in the back of my medicine cabinet, as well as random assortments of various drugs sufficient to kill a horse. So, two years of being med-free, practicing meditation daily, and lots of aerobic exercise have not helped, and I am a complete isolated hopeless nervous mess. When I went to my doctor last week for a sinus infection, I mentioned that I used to be on Parnate, and she said she couldn’t believe anyone prescribed that anymore, and proceeded to explain how great SSRIs are. I just shut up, went home and took my antibiotics. I don’t know what to do. Money is not an issue. I just want to somehow get out of this mess. I don’t look forward to anything… I can barely go out to buy groceries. It really hurts me at work. I may skip an old friend’s wedding because I don’t think I can handle it. Not sure what to do. I think good psychiatrists are hard to find- I can’t imagine anyone wanting to take on a case like mine. It seems like there is really no way out of this. I’m just so tired of life being a constant struggle with getting nervous talking to anyone… I’m getting way too old for this. I’m not suicidal, but wouldn’t be terribly upset if I were run over by a truck tomorrow. Yes, touching, I know. If you’ve made it this far, I apologize for my rambling. If you can think of any way to get out of this mess, let me know. I can’t even think of a first step that isn’t destined for failure. Jeff psychiatrist I feel trapped in my apartment now and need help, but can’t figure out how to proceed. My last attempt was several
I’m not sure anyone will see this or respond, but at minimum this posting will let me organize my thoughts and try to explain my situation. I’m male, 31 years old, and have lived with debilitating social anxiety for as long as I can remember, long before there were slick TV commercials for marginally effective pharmaceuticals to treat the disorder. I saw my first psychiatrist when I was 18, who told me I was a nice guy and would have a great life, just stop worrying so much. By the time I was 24 I finally worked up the courage to talk to a doctor about my depression and social anxiety, and went through the usual suspects with less than impressive results: Zoloft, Serzone, Effexor, Moclobemide. Then I contracted mono (great, what were the chances of that for a 27 year old virgin). That completely knocked me out for several months. Through my doctor, I finally got a referral to a good psychiatrist who diagnosed me with social anxiety disorder, generalized anxiety disorder and depression. He put me on Parnate and Klonopin, and I was pleasantly surprised, because I actually felt better than I’d ever felt in my entire life. I looked forward to my day… the pounding heart and sweaty palms went away, I didn’t think everyone was staring at me, and I could go out to social functions without getting incredibly nervous. The dietary restrictions for Parnate were a minor inconvenience. So were the sleep disturbances/minor insomnia. My life became almost normal. I went out with friends. I know, I know, you aren’t supposed to feel better just from meds… it takes lots of CBT and hard work. My experience, even with good therapists says that is not true. I’ve read the books, and understand all the distortions and negative thought patterns that pass through my mind. But being aware of them, and being able to get them under control are two separate things. I just have this brain chemistry that kicks in so strongly that the power of thought is not enough. One year later, after relocating to the US, I mentioned the insomnia to my doctor and she said it was caused by depression, and tripled the dose of Parnate, and also suggested ECT, which I declined. I didn’t sleep properly for days, and got extremely sick with a bacterial infection, probably because I was so tired and my immune system went on a vacation. It scared me so much that I took myself off Parnate and Klonopin (tapered) without consulting my doctor, who I no longer trusted. This was the worst decision of my life (and I’ve made a lot of bad decisions). After a few weeks, I quickly realized my error after I started returning to my old ways of hiding out in my apartment avoiding everyone. Since then, I’ve been dragged through unsuccessful courses of Prozac, Effexor (yuck) and Wellbutrin (double yuck). I can tolerate side effects, but generally expect to feel better rather than worse. That all ended about two years ago, when I gave up on meds and doctors who have a kneejerk reaction of try Paxil… try Effexor… or whatever drug-du-jour is being peddled. So I’ve put myself in a terrible position. The only thing that ever worked for me was a MAOI, and nobody wants to prescribe that. Or a scheduled drug like Klonopin. Probably now I’m profiled as exhibiting drug-seeking behavior. But that seems odd since I have old unused prescriptions for both of the above sitting in the back of my medicine cabinet, as well as random assortments of various drugs sufficient to kill a horse. So, two years of being med-free, practicing meditation daily, and lots of aerobic exercise have not helped, and I am a complete isolated hopeless nervous mess. When I went to my doctor last week for a sinus infection, I mentioned that I used to be on Parnate, and she said she couldn’t believe anyone prescribed that anymore, and proceeded to explain how great SSRIs are. I just shut up, went home and took my antibiotics. I don’t know what to do. Money is not an issue. I just want to somehow get out of this mess. I don’t look forward to anything… I can barely go out to buy groceries. It really hurts me at work. I may skip an old friend’s wedding because I don’t think I can handle it. Not sure what to do. I think good psychiatrists are hard to find- I can’t imagine anyone wanting to take on a case like mine. It seems like there is really no way out of this. I’m just so tired of life being a constant struggle with getting nervous talking to anyone… I’m getting way too old for this. I’m not suicidal, but wouldn’t be terribly upset if I were run over by a truck tomorrow. Yes, touching, I know. If you’ve made it this far, I apologize for my rambling. If you can think of any way to get out of this mess, let me know. I can’t even think of a first step that isn’t destined for failure. Jeff psychiatrist I feel trapped in my apartment now and need help, but can’t figure out how to proceed. My last attempt was several
Hello Jeff, I read through your message to the end. I stay away from this group now because of the cross posting. I’m sorry to tell you there are no simple answers for anyone like you or me suffering from Social Phobia. If there were this great newsgroup that has been decimated by cross posters wouldn’t exist. The only thing you can be certain of is that you will continue to suffer unless something great happens to you which it could. For me being able to leave my so called home where I live with my cruel parents would be the breakthrough for me but that can’t happen yet and may never happen. You say money isn’t a problem. In that case as bad as things may seem to be you could be like me living at home with almost no money at all. I’m not being dismissive here. I understand perfectly well that the solution for each of us that would give us the greatest relief is different for all of us and just because you can do what I can’t which is to get away from my parents in no way means that you aren’t suffering as much as I am. My advice to you is to keep trying. You say you are not suicidal and neither am I by the way then you will keep going forever hoping that things will sort themselves out somehow and maybe they will. The root cause of Social Phobia isn’t at all understood and naturally this is a major problem. I think I have a handle on it in my own case and this helps but the psychological battering I take from my parents 24/7 prevents me from making the breakthroughs I could now make if I was out on my own. I’m 48 by the way. Many people in the group(as it used to be) get great relif from drugs like Seroxat/Paxil but there was a post I saw at one point where the subject line was "Paxil is a Monster". So while drugs work for some people and in many cases transform their lives this is not always the case, indeed far from it. Satellites orbit the earth and perform many functions for us like providing us with a great telecommunications system but sadly the drugs available today are so primitive that they can hardly be described as therapeutic although drugs like anti-biotics are first class compounds. The same cannot be said for other drugs as you almost certainly know yourself. All I can say is you will keep going and always looking out for a way out of this savage disorder that annihilates it’s victims. I’m sorry I can’t help you. Have you tried Seroxat/Paxil? Some people in the group swear by it! Drugs would have no effect on me. Peter Nolan. To email please remove x from xpeter…@gofree.indigo.ie
Can anyone tell me if it is normal that ejaculation is postponed and less powerful when using Zoloft 75mg a day? No, it’s normal to have no ejaculation, and no erection.
is there any sexual side effects in women’s cases? thanks
is there any sexual side effects in women’s cases? thanks
Yes, the big O is difficult to achieve…more so than usual, that is! So unfair: Zoloft effectively takes the edge off daily life, at the high price of diminishing one of the reasons for living!!
I can identify. The thing that saves me from depression depresses me. I take Effexor now (for a couple of years) but it started half way through the Prozac (about 4 years into that 8-year stint). Tried Welbutrin but that made me really crazy. -seph [I'm paul but you already got one, so I'll be seph, as in joseph or persephone] ::: Yes, the big O is difficult to achieve…more so than usual, that is! So ::: unfair: Zoloft effectively takes the edge off daily life, at the high price of ::: diminishing one of the reasons for living!!
Can anyone tell me if it is normal that ejaculation is postponed and less powerful when using Zoloft 75mg a day?
Yes. It’s normal. Supplementary Wellbutrin may help. It is often used to ameliorate the sexual side effects caused by antidepressant medication, and has been shown in numerous clinical studies to be effective for this purpose. Speaking of Wellbutrin, it also so happens that Wellbutrin is an antidepressant in its own right, noteworthy for not having this particular side effect that you are complaining about. C//
Can anyone tell me if it is normal that ejaculation is postponed and less powerful when using Zoloft 75mg a day?
No, it’s normal to have no ejaculation, and no erection.
Someone explained to me that the drug has a short half life and needs to be perked up after 12 hours to remain constant
Deb – My shakiness and headaches don’t seem to coincide with my dosing. As a matter of fact my symptoms don’t seem to coincide with anything, which makes this whole situation much more frustrating. I take my dose at 10:00 p.m. every night. I have absolutely no trouble falling asleep – it’s staying asleep. When I wake up at 5:00 a.m. (if I am lucky enuf to have slept the whole night through – rare) I start to shake shortly after I wake up, not instantly upon waking. This is only 7 hours after I have taken my dose. Later in the morning I actually feel better. Karen
I start to shake shortly after I wake up, not instantly upon waking. This is only 7 hours after I have taken my dose. Later in the morning I actually feel better.
Dear Karen, Sorry to hear you still don`t feel well!! You say when you wake up you feel shaky, but later in the morning you feel better. Are you feeling better after you have eaten something?? When is the last time you eat or drink something the night before? This may be a long shot, but maybe you are going to long without eating something. Sometimes I will eat dinner at 5pm, and then not eat anything else for the rest of the evening, then the next day when I wake up I feel a little shaky. Sometimes just having a glass of oj and a slice of cheese, I feel better. You could try at 10pm having a glass of milk and some graham crackers, maybe you might see a difference or maybe you won`t, can`t hurt. Take Care!! Jackie Have you ever noticed? Anybody going slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac.–George Carlin
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Karen, Do you think you could ask your doc about twice daily dosing? I felt MUCH better when I went to this. Someone explained to me that the drug has a short half life and needs to be perked up after 12 hours to remain constant in your blood stream. A few weeks ago, I forgot my evening dose and woke up in a shaky panic – called shrink and she said once I am up to this level (300mg daily split twice) that missing a dose can easily bring on anxiety and that when I DO get off, it needs to be done gradually just like I built up. Just a thought, but it MAY be what is causing you to feel so bad? Your evening dose would be wearing off about midmorning – is this when you feel worse? I also sleep much better if I take my dose at dinner rather than before bed. Take care, Karen
Very interesting. My doc says the missed dose theory is way overrated. He said you recover typically in a day and it’s nothing to be concerned about. I have also done very well with twice daily.
Very interesting. My doc says the missed dose theory is way overrated. He said you recover typically in a day and it’s nothing to be concerned about. I have also done very well with twice daily.
I only had the one morning anxiety return on the morning after my missed dose and it was fine by afternoon. I really do not know if it was a breakthough episode or really related to the missed dose, but it seemed to be. Anyway, I am MUCH better about remembering my meds now
You say when you wake up you feel shaky, but later in the morning you feel better. Are you feeling better after you have eaten something??
I start to feel better after I get up out of bed and get rolling. I thought maybe it was nutritional too, but food does not seem to matter. I get shaky when I feel anxious (of course) but then I also get anxious because I get the shakes. Karen
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve been on Serzone since August 13th. I started at 50 mg and progessed to 100 mg 1x at night. Now I’ve been bumped to 150 mg and then will go to 200 mg 1x at night. I started to really feel better then had a set back. I am back to the low level constant shakiness and I have headaches that will not go away. The headaches start in the back of my neck and end up behind my eye. I also have some dizziness when I up my dose. I am really sick of these headaches. Neither Tylenol, Tylenol Sinus or Aleve take it away. Yesterday I tried a little caffiene and that seemed to help. No trails or nausea or skin crawl, though. I am really sick of feeling this overall weak shakiness, exactly the feeling you have if you have just gotten off the treadmill or stairmaster. I am patiently waiting for my stronger dose of Serzone to kick in. At least my PA’s have really subsided. In the meantime, I sure could use a neck rub! Karen
I’ll offer some views from someone who has taken Serzone for 1.5 years. (Remember, meds are different with each person) Serzone is an interesting beast. It was originally thought of as an anti-depressant and then moved towards the anxiety/PD arena. Through my reading and a top notch local doctor, I found that Serzone can actually INCREASE anxiety in some folks. I was one of those folks. Serzone did a great job of helping me sleep and has little sexual side effects. The downside for me was increased low level anxiety. My doctor put me on a very low dose of Xanax (.25mg 3 times daily). That helped some. He also increased the Serzone level slowly until my depression was under control. (He says that Serzone seems to work only at certain dosage levels for each person). I had taken Zoloft for a number of years and tried Paxil after that due to an increase in PAs. As a final fine tuning, he put me on a low dose of Zoloft. The combo of Serzone, Xanax, and Paxil was a homerun. I’ve been in great shape for a long time now. I will note that I also strongly believe in therapy to assist the meds. I have learned a ton about breathing and relaxation techniques. I also have learned about self-hypnosis from a terrific therapist. Finally, I understand myself better and can think through the tough situations that are side-effects of having Panic/Anxiety for a long time. Good luck all.
As stated above, I STILL have low level shakiness and slight headaches and I am on 150mg twice daily, BUT it is getting better!!!! I have been on 300mg twice daily for 4 weeks. I am thinking about moving from 150 twice daily to 200mg A.M. and 150 P.M. if the docs will do it. I felt better after my increase to 300 but it took a couple of days. I have read that is very common after an increase. I have never heard of a 1x daily dosage and I have also read and heard that a therapuetic dose is between 200-400mg daily. Stick with it as we are all feeling the same symptoms and maybe we can sort this out better with good communication between us! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve been on Serzone since August 13th. I started at 50 mg and progessed to 100 mg 1x at night. Now I’ve been bumped to 150 mg and then will go to 200 mg 1x at night. I started to really feel better then had a set back. I am back to the low level constant shakiness and I have headaches that will not go away. The headaches start in the back of my neck and end up behind my eye. I also have some dizziness when I up my dose. I am really sick of these headaches. Neither Tylenol, Tylenol Sinus or Aleve take it away. Yesterday I tried a little caffiene and that seemed to help. No trails or nausea or skin crawl, though. I am really sick of feeling this overall weak shakiness, exactly the feeling you have if you have just gotten off the treadmill or stairmaster. I am patiently waiting for my stronger dose of Serzone to kick in. At least my PA’s have really subsided. In the meantime, I sure could use a neck rub! Karen
Hi Karen, Do you think you could ask your doc about twice daily dosing? I felt MUCH better when I went to this. Someone explained to me that the drug has a short half life and needs to be perked up after 12 hours to remain constant in your blood stream. A few weeks ago, I forgot my evening dose and woke up in a shaky panic – called shrink and she said once I am up to this level (300mg daily split twice) that missing a dose can easily bring on anxiety and that when I DO get off, it needs to be done gradually just like I built up. Just a thought, but it MAY be what is causing you to feel so bad? Your evening dose would be wearing off about midmorning – is this when you feel worse? I also sleep much better if I take my dose at dinner rather than before bed. Take care, Karen
I’ve been on Serzone since August 13th. I started at 50 mg and progessed to 100 mg 1x at night. Now I’ve been bumped to 150 mg and then will go to 200 mg 1x at night. I started to really feel better then had a set back. I am back to the low level constant shakiness and I have headaches that will not go away. The headaches start in the back of my neck and end up behind my eye. I also have some dizziness when I up my dose. I am really sick of these headaches. Neither Tylenol, Tylenol Sinus or Aleve take it away. Yesterday I tried a little caffiene and that seemed to help. No trails or nausea or skin crawl, though. I am really sick of feeling this overall weak shakiness, exactly the feeling you have if you have just gotten off the treadmill or stairmaster. I am patiently waiting for my stronger dose of Serzone to kick in. At least my PA’s have really subsided. In the meantime, I sure could use a neck rub! Karen
Have been on serzone 300mg daily for 4 weeks. Ramped up from 200 after 10 days. I have been helped by serzone quite a bit! I have never had real relief however from the slight dizzy feelings and the general visual "trailing" or blurring of images when you move your head to look at something else. I have xanax .25 but only take them as needed. I do not take serzone on a full stomach and have not noticed nausea. I also had low grade headache and for me, mostly pressure in the back of my head before I increased to 300. Also started with a psych doc about 3 weeks ago but I cannot say it is helping much yet or if it will at all. I am going to try to get on ativan to try to combat the low level shaky feelings I seem to still have almost daily, very subtle but not enough to take a xanax as they as so short lived I don’t burn one for the shaky feelings, I just try to ride them out. Good luck on the serzone, it does work for a majority of people.I have consulted a psych doc and the real theraputic dose is 200-400mg daily but they cannot give you that much to start, you MUST ramp up to a higher dose slowly. Do not up it yourself ! Let the group know how you are progressing. It does get better! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – hello all i have just started serzone (50 mg 2x a day)1 week ago, i also take clonazepam 2mg per day. i suffer from GAD, and depression–and social phobia. I am no stranger to clonazepam, but does anyone have any experience with serzone. i have had a low grade headache and have been dizzy off and on. i understand that serzone is "supposed " to be good foe anx. and dep. please share thanks Perry
HI Rocky, Can you explin what you mean by "visual trails"? I am having what I think is trailing but I have not seen a definition online. Thank You – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – hello all i have just started serzone (50 mg 2x a day)1 week ago, i also take clonazepam 2mg per day. i suffer from GAD, and depression–and social phobia. I am no stranger to clonazepam, but does anyone have any experience with serzone. i have had a low grade headache and have been dizzy off and on. i understand that serzone is "supposed " to be good foe anx. and dep. please share thanks Perry Perry, I am on serzone (400mg/day) and was once on your dosage as I was ramping up. I’ve been on it now for nearly 5 months. It certainly helps me with controlling my anxiety levels. I experienced quite a few headaches for the first month. I don’t usually get headaches and so attributed it to the serzone. They subsided when I relaxed/lay down. I am practically free from bad side effects now, the only one being drowsiness if I take a tablet with only a drink rather than a full meal. Taking it with milk lessens this side effect for me. Oh I also get visual trails when I wake up in the morning , this isn’t really a bad side effect. It’s also a common one. I hope it works out for you. Rocky
Hi Perry, I began with 50mg daily back on Sep 18th and gradually (weekly) built up to my current target dose of 300mg split into morning and evening. Yes, I did have some headaches, weird skin sensations, nausea and dizziness for the first few days of each increase but they always diminished after that. I found that it helped me GREATLY to take each dose with food (someone here recommended that to me) I have only been at my target dose for about three weeks now and it took quite awhile to notice real improvement, but is has now helped very much. I am sleeping better, have my appetite back, and NO PA’s for past three weeks. In fact I have only had 4-5 of them since starting the Serzone where I was having them 3-4 times a week. I still notice some very minimal side effects but nothing bad-some nausea and a weird skin sensation..kinda like cold chills, about an hour after each dose..I call this the "hit" but it passes quickly. I took .5mg Klonopin with each dose as I built up but noticed I was feeling very sleepy so I cut it back gradually to .25mg with each dose and now I feel less tired for sure. Next step for me is to try eliminating the Klonopin and I think I can do it since the Serzone is helping so much, but if not, no big deal because I am taking only a tiny amount. For me, this drug is the first one to really help me. I have been through Prozac, Zoloft, Effexor, Depakote and Paxil. None of these others were for me I guess. Hey you guys on Serzone!! How about jumping in here? Debbie, Karen, Eric, Steve, BG and others??? Take care,
hello all i have just started serzone (50 mg 2x a day)1 week ago, i also take clonazepam 2mg per day. i suffer from GAD, and depression–and social phobia. I am no stranger to clonazepam, but does anyone have any experience with serzone. i have had a low grade headache and have been dizzy off and on. i understand that serzone is "supposed " to be good foe anx. and dep. please share thanks Perry
I seem to have gathered the information that Serzone is not really a first choice med for PAD (although remarkably quite some people here have positive reports) but works well when used in conjunction with Xanax. (Maybe you could try Xanax instead of Klonopin, which also seems logical as Xanax will often kill breakthrough PA’s within 15 minutes and you already have a maintenance med in Serzone). Philip (FWIW)
hello all i have just started serzone (50 mg 2x a day)1 week ago, i also take clonazepam 2mg per day. i suffer from GAD, and depression–and social phobia. I am no stranger to clonazepam, but does anyone have any experience with serzone. i have had a low grade headache and have been dizzy off and on. i understand that serzone is "supposed " to be good foe anx. and dep. please share thanks Perry
hello all i have just started serzone (50 mg 2x a day)1 week ago, i also take clonazepam 2mg per day. i suffer from GAD, and depression–and social phobia. I am no stranger to clonazepam, but does anyone have any experience with serzone. i have had a low grade headache and have been dizzy off and on. i understand that serzone is "supposed " to be good foe anx. and dep. please share thanks Perry
Perry, I am on serzone (400mg/day) and was once on your dosage as I was ramping up. I’ve been on it now for nearly 5 months. It certainly helps me with controlling my anxiety levels. I experienced quite a few headaches for the first month. I don’t usually get headaches and so attributed it to the serzone. They subsided when I relaxed/lay down. I am practically free from bad side effects now, the only one being drowsiness if I take a tablet with only a drink rather than a full meal. Taking it with milk lessens this side effect for me. Oh I also get visual trails when I wake up in the morning , this isn’t really a bad side effect. It’s also a common one. I hope it works out for you. Rocky
Does anyone know the efficacy of effexor for the new DMS category: Bipolar 2. Also, I see a lot of posts here about effexor withdrawal. If effexor is such a great drug, why are so many people coming off it all the time–are they going drug-free or are they looking for something better? Michael
I came off it because, for me, it didn’t work. It had bad side effects for me, insomnia, strange dreams, elevated blood pressure. I was fortunate that I had no trouble getting off it. Others have had success with it, and also problems stopping. Charles
Does anyone know the efficacy of effexor for the new DMS category: Bipolar 2. Also, I see a lot of posts here about effexor withdrawal. If effexor is such a great drug, why are so many people coming off it all the time–are they going drug-free or are they looking for something better? Michael