Question:

Hi! Sorry about all those bogus Boytko (or whatever) responses you got. A very good suggestion was given to you: to make sure you don’t have sleep apena, and that your asthma isn’t bothering you when you sleep. I would be wary of the theophylline. There are much better drugs for your asthma. Are you on flovent 220 at least 2 times a day? If not, I"d increase that and dump the theophylline. I had *severe* side effects from the theophylline that lasted for years (because I took it for years) and it really affected my sleep. Perhaps try singulair or accolate or something. If you are taking all those medications for asthma you should be seeing a specialist, not just a doctor: and they might be able to help you further with your problems. I personally also had similar side effects from the serevent, but I do know that many others tolerate it well. Intal did nothing for me, and is usually not an "as needed" drug- you have to take it all the time for it to have any affect, right? I found that Intal (and Tilade) actually made my exercise induced asthma *worse* because it irritated me and didn’t help. Also, with all the above, do try to start an exercise program and certainly improve your diet. Just because your diet hasn’t changed in 10 years doesn’t mean *you* haven’t.  It can make a big difference in how you feel energetically, and makes your asthma better too.(the exercise part).  It might also help you sleep longer- 8 hours is a bit more normal. -j – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am taking Flovent, Serevent, Albuterol, Intal (when needed), and Theophylline. Ever since I’ve been taking them faithfully (around 2 years), I feel so tired….even when I’m not doing anything. My diet is kinda lousy; yet, it hasn’t changed 10 years. I averaged six hours of sleep. Don’t have a strenous job. Rarely exercise, but I do walk alot! Has anyone experienced fatique while on medications? If do, what was the culprit? Thanks.. * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

writes <snip do try to start an exercise program

The original post states they walk ‘a lot’.  If that means a brisk walk (e.g. raises the pulse) for half an hour, three or more times a week I would classify that as exercise.  IMHO Walking is underrated as exercise but can be really good if it’s on unmade footpaths (much better that roads or gym floors as each step is slightly different) and up and down hills.  And it doesn’t carry dangers (or they are greatly reduced) of over-use injuries, and on paths away from roads the air is better and the dangers from traffic go away. And walking is weight-bearing which helps prevent osteoporosis – something swimming doesn’t do though weights, gym works & cycling do. <snip — Surfer!

Response:

Mark: I’m 76 and for over 2 years have persistent (without attacks) old age asthma. In times of remission, all breathing parameters are OK. I’ve tried daily 20 min. exercises with a restricted air flow device for about 2 months……

Mark, I’m not sure what you expected this device to do for you.  Just because you make it harder for yourself to breathe does’nt mean you get less air.  Your respiratory center paces your breathing for you and it will make you breathe in such a way as to attain a particular CO2 level in your blood.  Putting a restrictive device in line with your respiaratory tract isn’t going to change anything. What you need to do is practice breathing in such a way as to sustain, over  a prolonged period of time,  a small shortage of air.  You need to do this often. Unless you actually feel like you’re not getting enough air while you’re doing this,  it’s not going to help your respiratory center accommodate to higher levels of CO2. If you want to knock Buteyko by all means, but make sure you’ve actually done the exercises properly before you do. …. with no effect, and then had the idea that asthmatics don’t need Buteyko, since they have plenty of hypoventilation, with (as follows from medical research) some positive results claimed by Buteyko (e.g., less sclerosis).

In early stage asthma CO2 is low, because of hyperventilation.  When asthma is very sever you get to a point where the lungs are so damaged that CO2 can’t get out and Oxygen can’t get in.  You’re right, here the asthmatic is hypoventilated from the point of view of the blood gases.  But there is a state in between where blood CO2 appears to be normal and Oxygen is low.  What happens  here is as follows.  As the disease progresses part of the lungs becomes so badly blocked that it stops being ventilated all together, but it still gets perfused with blood.   That part of the lung which is still functioning becomes hoplessly overventilated, as can be seen from ETCO2 (End tidal  CO2) studies.  The blood that leaves the lungs to get into the arteries therefore contains a mixture of blood from the overventilated and underventilated areas, which means that the CO2 may appear to be normal.  But the CO2 component from the functioning part is very low, and this is what causes it to go into bronchospasm.  So we take Ventolin to open it up.  But that does’nt actually cure anything.  At this stage Buteyko alone won’t help either.  You need to supplement with steroids until you can get your breathing under control and then gradually reverse the process by deliberate hypoventilation.  As you can imagine, by this stage this can be a very difficult process. Sticking a marble in your nostril won’t solve your problem. Peter Kolb Free information provided by grateful ex-asthmatics     http://www.wt.com.au/~pkolb/buteyko.htm

Response:

If you want to knock Buteyko by all means, but make sure you’ve actually done the exercises properly before you do.

So you are saying that I should try something that is dangerous and stupid before I warn others about it? Why don’t you jump off a cliff and then tell us whether or not it is dangerous? In early stage asthma CO2 is low, because of hyperventilation.  When asthma is very sever you get to a point where the lungs are so damaged that CO2 can’t get out and Oxygen can’t get in.

What are you talking about?  You really need to learn something about asthma instead of relying on the stuff the buteyko promoters fabricated. No electrons were harmed in the posting of this message.

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Can I just mention that I tried Buteyko after seeing a documentary on the TV and found a course run by Sasha Stalmatski in York UK in Oct 99. I was on quite a lot of medication at the time, Flixotide, Ventolin, Atrovent, Serevent, Slo Phyllin etc. and before starting the course was extremely tired and could hardly walk upstairs.  I found the course very difficult but persevered.  One year on and I am only on Flixotide and Ventolin and although I visit hospital as an out patient regularly for bronchial/chest infections my asthma is under control and from having an asthma attack regularly every night 12 months ago I do not have any attacks at all now, I do have problems when I have a chest infection but the breathing exercises I learnt on the course have been very helpful and last year I had an attack of pluerisy and used the shallow breathing as I was rushed to hospital and it certainly worked for me.  By the way I have no medical training whatsoever so I cannot give medical advice it certainly didn’t cure me but it has made my life better, I can at least get up stairs now, I haven’t progressed to cycling yet but I am working on it.  I am a middle aged lady and able to do a full time job even if I do occasionally have to have time off for chest infections. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you want to knock Buteyko by all means, but make sure you’ve actually done the exercises properly before you do. So you are saying that I should try something that is dangerous and stupid before I warn others about it? Why don’t you jump off a cliff and then tell us whether or not it is dangerous? In early stage asthma CO2 is low, because of hyperventilation.  When asthma is very sever you get to a point where the lungs are so damaged that CO2 can’t get out and Oxygen can’t get in. What are you talking about?  You really need to learn something about asthma instead of relying on the stuff the buteyko promoters fabricated. No electrons were harmed in the posting of this message.

– Christine Varney Dept of Physics University of York YORK  YO10 5DD  UK tel: 44 (0) 1904 432261 fax: 44 (0) 1904 432214

Response:

I am taking Flovent, Serevent, Albuterol, Intal (when needed), and Theophylline. Ever since I’ve been taking them faithfully (around 2 years), I feel so tired….even when I’m not doing anything. My diet is kinda lousy; yet, it hasn’t changed 10 years. I averaged six hours of sleep. Don’t have a strenous job. Rarely exercise, but I do walk alot! Has anyone experienced fatique while on medications? If do, what was the culprit?

I find fatigue is the product of any single one or combination of the following: 1)      that time of the month 2)      being ill 3)      not getting enough sleep – I usually need 8-9 hours a night 4)      emotional upset like when I had to have two cats put to sleep last year – each time the response was to sleep for a couple of weeks, 16 hours a day or more at first. 5)      stress at work 6)      boredom 7)      prevarication – shall I do some decorating or get another ours sleep?      lack of exercise 9)      not drinking enough water especially if it’s hot – I’ve had a few night cramps 10)     eating too much too late – full stomach is not ideal before bed 11)     I go to sleep fine if I drink too much (e.g. more than 2-3 glasses wine) but then have disturbed dreams As you might imagine I’m a good sleeper!  Luckily too much time in bed gives me a bad back so there’s no danger (at the moment) of my developing a 24-hour per day habit. Before I got my medication (Pulmicort, and inhaled steroid) I *was* chronically tired due to lack of sleep and poor quality sleep.  Starting them made a new woman of me.  But I can’t find a new man to match! So I’ve got some new cats! so check (with your doctor) your asthma medication is working properly – especially at night.  When I’m bad I start snoring and give myself disturbed dreams and intermittent waking especially if I fall asleep with pillows as they prop up my head and close the airway (and are bad for my back & neck).  If you don’t have a peak flow meter get one and use it, drawing a chart of the morning & evening results (or put them in Excel!).  It should be pretty level – if it’s down in the mornings and responds to Intal it suggests you are possibly under-medicated in the steroid department. Also ask your partner (if you have one) how you sleep.  Lots of snoring could be part of, or an indication of, the problem.  Especially if you wake yourself up, or wake because you have almost stopped breathing (sleep apnoea). Good Luck PS Peter Kolb seems to reckon that everything is caused by CHVS. — Surfer!

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am taking Flovent, Serevent, Albuterol, Intal (when needed), and Theophylline. Ever since I’ve been taking them faithfully (around 2 years), I feel so tired….even when I’m not doing anything. My diet is kinda lousy; yet, it hasn’t changed 10 years. I averaged six hours of sleep. Don’t have a strenous job. Rarely exercise, but I do walk alot! Has anyone experienced fatique while on medications? If do, what was the culprit? Thanks.. Hello I can’t say whether or not your medications cause fatigue,  but what I can tell you is that fatigue, listlessness and inability to exercise are some of the very many symptoms of Chronic hyperventilation syndrome (CHVS).  This was first discovered by American Field Surgeon DaCosta in 1870 when he descibed this condition sufffered by American Soldiers under combat stress during the civil war.  While the mechanism by which such stress can cause chronic hyperventilation is well known and understood,  few doctors even seem to be aware of its existence.  This is in spite of the fact that prevalence in the community is between 6 and 11%  (References  have been given on an earlier occasion). There is a very logical treatment which has been developed in Russia for CHVS.  They found it so successful (and quite dramatically so) in the treatment of asthma,  that it has been brought to the west largely as a therapy that reverses the asthma condition.  But any of the symptoms of CHVS can be successfully treated with this therapy. Unfortunately, unlike with conventional medicine,  there are no magic bullets.  Buteyko therapy requires a lot of work and a lot of time, but at least it enables you to get your health back.   Many people have found that there is sufficient information on our web site to help you get rid of your asthma. Peter Kolb BSc(Eng),MSc(Med),CPEng(Biomed) BIOMEDICAL ENGINEER Free information provided by grateful ex-asthmatics

Mark: I’m 76 and for over 2 years have persistent (without attacks) old age asthma. In times of remission, all breathing parameters are OK. I’ve tried daily 20 min. exercises with a restricted air flow device for about 2 months – with no effect, and then had the idea that asthmatics don’t need Buteyko, since they have plenty of hypoventilation, with (as follows from medical research) some positive results claimed by Buteyko (e.g., less sclerosis). – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –    http://www.wt.com.au/~pkolb/buteyko.htm

Response:

I am taking Flovent, Serevent, Albuterol, Intal (when needed), and Theophylline. Ever since I’ve been taking them faithfully (around 2 years), I feel so tired….even when I’m not doing anything. My diet is kinda lousy; yet, it hasn’t changed 10 years. I averaged six hours of sleep. Don’t have a strenous job. Rarely exercise, but I do walk alot! Has anyone experienced fatique while on medications? If do, what was the culprit? Thanks.. * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

I am taking Flovent, Serevent, Albuterol, Intal (when needed), and Theophylline. Ever since I’ve been taking them faithfully (around 2 years), I feel so tired….even when I’m not doing anything. My diet is kinda lousy; yet, it hasn’t changed 10 years. I averaged six hours of sleep. Don’t have a strenous job. Rarely exercise, but I do walk alot! Has anyone experienced fatique while on medications? If do, what was the culprit? Thanks..

Hello I can’t say whether or not your medications cause fatigue,  but what I can tell you is that fatigue, listlessness and inability to exercise are some of the very many symptoms of Chronic hyperventilation syndrome (CHVS).  This was first discovered by American Field Surgeon DaCosta in 1870 when he descibed this condition sufffered by American Soldiers under combat stress during the civil war.  While the mechanism by which such stress can cause chronic hyperventilation is well known and understood,  few doctors even seem to be aware of its existence.  This is in spite of the fact that prevalence in the community is between 6 and 11%  (References  have been given on an earlier occasion).   There is a very logical treatment which has been developed in Russia for CHVS.  They found it so successful (and quite dramatically so) in the treatment of asthma,  that it has been brought to the west largely as a therapy that reverses the asthma condition.  But any of the symptoms of CHVS can be successfully treated with this therapy. Unfortunately, unlike with conventional medicine,  there are no magic bullets.  Buteyko therapy requires a lot of work and a lot of time, but at least it enables you to get your health back.   Many people have found that there is sufficient information on our web site to help you get rid of your asthma. Peter Kolb BSc(Eng),MSc(Med),CPEng(Biomed) BIOMEDICAL ENGINEER Free information provided by grateful ex-asthmatics     http://www.wt.com.au/~pkolb/buteyko.htm

Response:

I am taking Flovent, Serevent, Albuterol, Intal (when needed), and Theophylline. Ever since I’ve been taking them faithfully (around 2 years), I feel so tired….even when I’m not doing anything. My diet is kinda lousy; yet, it hasn’t changed 10 years. I averaged six hours of sleep. Don’t have a strenous job. Rarely exercise, but I do walk alot!

Try sleeping an extra 1/2 hour.  Most people do not get the amount of sleep they need. No electrons were harmed in the posting of this message.

Response:

I can’t say whether or not your medications cause fatigue,  but what I can tell you is that fatigue, listlessness and inability to exercise are some of the very many symptoms of Chronic hyperventilation syndrome (CHVS).

Can you name something that is not a symptom of this imaginary ailment? BTW, can you provide any current medical references that support your diagnosis? And how about providing your qualifications to dispense medical advice? No electrons were harmed in the posting of this message.

Response:

Question:

You have learned a very important thing about there being no upward bound.  The key is to make sure the patient is titrated upward properly.  Many doctors mistakenly believe that at a certain dosage, resp failure will ensue.  That is BS just as long as the patient has been *gradually* taken up to their dosages. As for cost, Oxy and MS-Con are VERY expensive.  Oramorph is about the same price also.   90 Oxycontin of 40 mg strength can run anywhere from $400 to $500. (I’ve heard that the methadone equivalent of these is about $15-$25. You can see why some patients might need to use methadone). That is ALOT of dough for either Oxy or MS-Contin.  It is important for pain physicians to discuss what insurance their patients have and to work with them to make sure they can afford the meds.  Before the doc even pulls out the prescription pad, a discussion should take place about what insurance the patient has (if any).  Most people can simply not afford paying over $1000 per month out of pocket (assuming prescriptions for Oxycontin and a breakthru med like Oxyfast). – Jon  (:o)}< – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – First, this is my own personal preferences.  Doctors are allowed to be fickle too (most are MORE so).  I guess if I start using it more and get more comfortable with it, then I’ll start to use it more.  The hospice I direct has contracts for MS Contin/Oxy Contin so they get it cheaper.  The residency program I came from had a pharmacy that had both Oxy/MS and methadone.  I just preferred the first two. Now allow me to clear up one misconception you stated: there are no upper limits for ANY opiate that is not mixed with something else.  So there is no upper limit for morphine, oxycodone or methadone.  You keep taking more until you get the dose that benefits you.  That is one simple rule that many docs don’t like.  Some incorrectly believe that there is some "magic" number that if they pass that dose, the patient (still in horrible pain) will stop breathing.  That is simply NOT true.  No one will be dying from respiratory failure from too much narcotic while they still have significant pain.  Pain is the PERFECT antagonist for opiates…better than naloxone. Cost can be a significant factor, but I have not encountered that yet.  I know I will, just not yet. It does sound like you have a great pain doc.  Stick with her and tell your friends about her too. — Bill Work Personally, it is my last choice for long-acting, oral narcotics. Notice I said "personally".  It has a half-life of 24 hours but you must take it three times a day for pain relief. Is the 3x/day dosing the reason you don’t like the methadone, or is there another reason for not liking it? It surely is a life saver cost wise for those who cannot afford the high prices of OxyContin and other meds which have no generics. My pain-management physician also says that there is no upper limit on methadone. She prescribes whatever it takes to reach the goal that one is seeking for pain relief and gives breakthrough medication also. Now a few questions…who in the world put you on OxyContin four times a day?  What if you took 80 mg every 12 hours (not twice a day but every 12 hours)?  Does it make you too sleepy?  Do you get too much breakthrough pain? I was on OxyContin a while back and found it to be practically useless for me. My first pain-management physician started me out on 3x/day because he said that it didn’t last longer than 8 hours for most people. I can’t see any difference between taking OxyContin 3x/day and methadone 3x/day except for the fact that methadone works much better for me than OxyContin, and I have saved a bundle of money. Annie B.

Response:

Thank you Harley for the inforation you provided….printed alot of it off and have it ready for my Dr appointment  on Thursday. It should give him some idea on what I’m talking about. Thanks again…I appreciate all the help everyone has given me…….Joan

Response:

Hi Joan. I am 28yrs. and I would like to share my medication history with you.  I have been on narcotics for the treatment of Avascular Necrosis for the past 3yrs  I am currently taking 30mg of methadone every 6hrs; 120mg/day.  75mg of morphine ER/day ;30-45mg twice a day . Also, oxycodone 10mg every 4hrs.; 60mg/day.  However, I am still in a great deal of pain every second of the day.  Before switching to Methadone, I was on oxycontin 80mg/day along with the same dose of oxycodone and things where pretty much the same.  So, if cost is the only issue, I would give methadone a try.But i was recently told that methadone can damage the bones.  Therefor, I am now lookng for a drug to replace methadone since I already have a bone disease. I pray that you will soon find the right medication for you.

Response:

I agree…so I guess I need to only treat patients with good insurance????? No, you made some good points. — Bill Work

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You have learned a very important thing about there being no upward bound.  The key is to make sure the patient is titrated upward properly.  Many doctors mistakenly believe that at a certain dosage, resp failure will ensue.  That is BS just as long as the patient has been *gradually* taken up to their dosages. As for cost, Oxy and MS-Con are VERY expensive.  Oramorph is about the same price also. 90 Oxycontin of 40 mg strength can run anywhere from $400 to $500. (I’ve heard that the methadone equivalent of these is about $15-$25. You can see why some patients might need to use methadone). That is ALOT of dough for either Oxy or MS-Contin.  It is important for pain physicians to discuss what insurance their patients have and to work with them to make sure they can afford the meds.  Before the doc even pulls out the prescription pad, a discussion should take place about what insurance the patient has (if any).  Most people can simply not afford paying over $1000 per month out of pocket (assuming prescriptions for Oxycontin and a breakthru med like Oxyfast). – Jon  (:o)}< First, this is my own personal preferences.  Doctors are allowed to be fickle too (most are MORE so).  I guess if I start using it more and get more comfortable with it, then I’ll start to use it more.  The hospice I direct has contracts for MS Contin/Oxy Contin so they get it cheaper. The residency program I came from had a pharmacy that had both Oxy/MS and methadone.  I just preferred the first two. Now allow me to clear up one misconception you stated: there are no upper limits for ANY opiate that is not mixed with something else.  So there is no upper limit for morphine, oxycodone or methadone.  You keep taking more until you get the dose that benefits you.  That is one simple rule that many docs don’t like.  Some incorrectly believe that there is some "magic" number that if they pass that dose, the patient (still in horrible pain) will stop breathing.  That is simply NOT true.  No one will be dying from respiratory failure from too much narcotic while they still have significant pain. Pain is the PERFECT antagonist for opiates…better than naloxone. Cost can be a significant factor, but I have not encountered that yet.  I know I will, just not yet. It does sound like you have a great pain doc.  Stick with her and tell your friends about her too. — Bill Work Personally, it is my last choice for long-acting, oral narcotics. Notice I said "personally".  It has a half-life of 24 hours but you must take it three times a day for pain relief. Is the 3x/day dosing the reason you don’t like the methadone, or is there another reason for not liking it? It surely is a life saver cost wise for those who cannot afford the high prices of OxyContin and other meds which have no generics. My pain-management physician also says that there is no upper limit on methadone. She prescribes whatever it takes to reach the goal that one is seeking for pain relief and gives breakthrough medication also. Now a few questions…who in the world put you on OxyContin four times a day?  What if you took 80 mg every 12 hours (not twice a day but every 12 hours)?  Does it make you too sleepy?  Do you get too much breakthrough pain? I was on OxyContin a while back and found it to be practically useless for me. My first pain-management physician started me out on 3x/day because he said that it didn’t last longer than 8 hours for most people. I can’t see any difference between taking OxyContin 3x/day and methadone 3x/day except for the fact that methadone works much better for me than OxyContin, and I have saved a bundle of money. Annie B.

Response:

May I ask why you are on so many different narcotics?????  You should be on only ONE narcotic and maximize that to its fullest potential. Reminds me of hospice referrals we would get from the Internal Medicine teams.  They would discharge someone on Duragesic patches, OxyContin, Percocets and MS IR (no joke!).  BTW, the patient would still be in 7/10 pain. So, your dose of methadone is too small.  If this is the drug of choice for you (I hadn’t heard about the bone stuff), then it should be maximized. What is the limit?  There is NO limit.  You take an increasing dose until you either have the pain to a manageable level or you get tired of taking so many pills. As a pain physician, I would be VERY uncomfortable giving you that diverse of a medication regimen.  It sounds too complex and more likely to have problems getting the proper doses. Just my two cents…and I didn’t even bill you for it… — Bill Work

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Joan. I am 28yrs. and I would like to share my medication history with you.  I have been on narcotics for the treatment of Avascular Necrosis for the past 3yrs  I am currently taking 30mg of methadone every 6hrs; 120mg/day.  75mg of morphine ER/day ;30-45mg twice a day . Also, oxycodone 10mg every 4hrs.; 60mg/day.  However, I am still in a great deal of pain every second of the day.  Before switching to Methadone, I was on oxycontin 80mg/day along with the same dose of oxycodone and things where pretty much the same.  So, if cost is the only issue, I would give methadone a try.But i was recently told that methadone can damage the bones.  Therefor, I am now lookng for a drug to replace methadone since I already have a bone disease. I pray that you will soon find the right medication for you.

Response:

Ironman is quite right. Trying to last 12 hours on one pill did not come close to helping me anyway. I have found the change to QID, yes every 6 hours for oxycontin has a made major improvement in my quality of life – at least for me. TID is a near norm with many I’ve read over the last year. Some thoughts I wanted to pass along. My previous pain doc used methadone as his fist narcotic of choice for some chronic patients because of it being affordable. This enabled him to treat all folks with pain both rich and the poor uninsured – me. Fortunately I now receive help due to past employment before I could not work. I’m still paying on the previous bills for medication over several years.  I hope and pray each month my medications go through one more time. I could never afford the meds and would be back to my past situation borrowing money. Oxy works best for me, unfortunately. Thought you might find this interesting. Have a good day, Matt

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Personally, it is my last choice for long-acting, oral narcotics.  Notice I said "personally".  It has a half-life of 24 hours but you must take it three times a day for pain relief. Now a few questions…who in the world put you on OxyContin four times a day?  What if you took 80 mg every 12 hours (not twice a day but every 12 hours)?  Does it make you too sleepy?  Do you get too much breakthrough pain? Dr. Work, While OxyContin is a very good pain reliever, it doesn’t last 12 hours. IMHO it stops being effective after 6-8 hours. YMMV, but she could need to take 40 mg. 4x per day. This is just my spin on the situation. ironman Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

Response:

Dear Doc.  Thank you for the info.  I am certainly going to request that my medications be re_ evaluated.  My pain alway ranges 7to 10.  I was starting to feel that there was no hope of having my pain managed.  My doc said that 120mg of methadone was as high as it could be.  That is why morphine er was added.  The oxycodone is for breakthrough pain and my pain is so grea that I take it every 4hrs. around the clock. THANKS FOR ANY HELP YOU CAN GIVE

Response:

William: I know you were joking, but no…..the key is to use drugs that have generic formularies with under- or noninsured patients. Methadone comes to mind for a "long-term" delivery drug. Another option is to use a suspension form of hydrocodone in syrup form.  This tends to stay in the body for an extended period of time. Bunch of these on the market for people with severe coughing. Still nothing wrong with Percocet/dan.  Keep in mind that the drug companies have now come out with 2.5/5/10 mg formulations.  Drs need to specify which strength they are writing for. Vicoden ES or its generics are cheaper (by comparison).  Norco is not all that expensive either. OR…..if you have a compounding pharmacy near your practice and you want to avoid APAP toxicity……have the pharmacist compound pure hydrocodone.  IT CAN BE DONE. With poorer folks, you just need to be a little bit more creative. They will thank you for it 1000% over tho  (:o) – Jon  (:o)}< – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I agree…so I guess I need to only treat patients with good insurance????? No, you made some good points. — Bill Work You have learned a very important thing about there being no upward bound.  The key is to make sure the patient is titrated upward properly.  Many doctors mistakenly believe that at a certain dosage, resp failure will ensue.  That is BS just as long as the patient has been *gradually* taken up to their dosages. As for cost, Oxy and MS-Con are VERY expensive.  Oramorph is about the same price also. 90 Oxycontin of 40 mg strength can run anywhere from $400 to $500. (I’ve heard that the methadone equivalent of these is about $15-$25. You can see why some patients might need to use methadone). That is ALOT of dough for either Oxy or MS-Contin.  It is important for pain physicians to discuss what insurance their patients have and to work with them to make sure they can afford the meds.  Before the doc even pulls out the prescription pad, a discussion should take place about what insurance the patient has (if any).  Most people can simply not afford paying over $1000 per month out of pocket (assuming prescriptions for Oxycontin and a breakthru med like Oxyfast). – Jon  (:o)}< First, this is my own personal preferences.  Doctors are allowed to be fickle too (most are MORE so).  I guess if I start using it more and get more comfortable with it, then I’ll start to use it more.  The hospice I direct has contracts for MS Contin/Oxy Contin so they get it cheaper. The residency program I came from had a pharmacy that had both Oxy/MS and methadone.  I just preferred the first two. Now allow me to clear up one misconception you stated: there are no upper limits for ANY opiate that is not mixed with something else.  So there is no upper limit for morphine, oxycodone or methadone.  You keep taking more until you get the dose that benefits you.  That is one simple rule that many docs don’t like.  Some incorrectly believe that there is some "magic" number that if they pass that dose, the patient (still in horrible pain) will stop breathing.  That is simply NOT true.  No one will be dying from respiratory failure from too much narcotic while they still have significant pain. Pain is the PERFECT antagonist for opiates…better than naloxone. Cost can be a significant factor, but I have not encountered that yet.  I know I will, just not yet. It does sound like you have a great pain doc.  Stick with her and tell your friends about her too. — Bill Work Personally, it is my last choice for long-acting, oral narcotics. Notice I said "personally".  It has a half-life of 24 hours but you must take it three times a day for pain relief. Is the 3x/day dosing the reason you don’t like the methadone, or is there another reason for not liking it? It surely is a life saver cost wise for those who cannot afford the high prices of OxyContin and other meds which have no generics. My pain-management physician also says that there is no upper limit on methadone. She prescribes whatever it takes to reach the goal that one is seeking for pain relief and gives breakthrough medication also. Now a few questions…who in the world put you on OxyContin four times a day?  What if you took 80 mg every 12 hours (not twice a day but every 12 hours)?  Does it make you too sleepy?  Do you get too much breakthrough pain? I was on OxyContin a while back and found it to be practically useless for me. My first pain-management physician started me out on 3x/day because he said that it didn’t last longer than 8 hours for most people. I can’t see any difference between taking OxyContin 3x/day and methadone 3x/day except for the fact that methadone works much better for me than OxyContin, and I have saved a bundle of money. Annie B.

Response:

What this demonstrates is that everyone is different and everything about the person must be taken into account…..snippage I am never concerned about a chronic pain patient over-medicating.  They would have to prove to me that they are incompetant with their meds before I begin to get worried.  I know a pain doc here in town who on the first visit, gives the patient a large amount of MS IR to use and asks them to write down each day how much and how often they use it.  He then re-evaluates them in one month and starts them on a chronic dose.  I personally don’t do that but instead make an educated guess as to how much to start and give breakthrough MS IR/Oxy IR then make the adjustment.

When I began methadone I was prescribed 100 5 mg tablets. I was instructed to start at 5 mg every 6 hours for three days and then titrate the doseage by 5 mg increments every three days till I felt comfortable. I then settled at 10mg every 6 hours, a relatively small dose. I am now at 20 mg every 6 hours but I have only needed two small adjustments in 18 months. It took me two years of agony to get into that doctor’s care, I certainly don’t recommend that you take that long to find the right MD! I never take stuff for granted after having gone through so much. I know how fortunate I am because I don’t live in this NG anymore! I actually have days now, where I forget about this stuff entirely. Jim S Jim S

Response:

Many many patients find that Oxycontin does not last 12 hours.  It is more like 8 hours.  Many Oxy prescriptions are now for dosing one TID. I’ve read reports of patients on 4x daily dosing.  Since the drug comes in so many different strengths, it is very useful for the clinician since they can easily titrate the dose. Since different patients metabolize oxycodone at different rates, I can imagine patients who might need QID dosing.  We’ve had patients on this newsgroup that were/are taking "heroic" amounts of Oxycontin on a daily basis and their pain was barely in check. Pain management requires an "exploratory" mindset.  Just because the manufacturer promises a certain delivery, does not mean a given patient will achieve that. If I had lost my insurance, I would give methadone major consideration.  It is dirt cheap and works very well. – Jon  (:o)}< – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Personally, it is my last choice for long-acting, oral narcotics.  Notice I said "personally".  It has a half-life of 24 hours but you must take it three times a day for pain relief. Now a few questions…who in the world put you on OxyContin four times a day?  What if you took 80 mg every 12 hours (not twice a day but every 12 hours)?  Does it make you too sleepy?  Do you get too much breakthrough pain? — Bill Work I have been lurking for several months and have gotten alot of help from this group. I am looking for information on methodone…how well does it work for pain control and where could I find web sites to learn more about it? I am on oxycontine 40 mg 4 x a day right now for neck and arm pain (cervical injury)…..however my insurance company, workers comp, has stopped paying for my meds and I am having a very difficult time paying for all the meds my dr. prescribes. I have heard that methodone is cheaper, but want to know if it is some thing I should , or would want to start on in place of oxycontine. I have a very compassionate dr who is willing to help me in any way he can, however admits he does not know enough about the methadone, being used for chronic pain, to tell me if it would be the right drug for me, or how well it really works. I would appreciate any help that you could give me on this. Thank you…..Joan

Response:

First, this is my own personal preferences.  Doctors are allowed to be fickle too (most are MORE so).  I guess if I start using it more and get more comfortable with it, then I’ll start to use it more.  The hospice I direct has contracts for MS Contin/Oxy Contin so they get it cheaper.  The residency program I came from had a pharmacy that had both Oxy/MS and methadone.  I just preferred the first two. Now allow me to clear up one misconception you stated: there are no upper limits for ANY opiate that is not mixed with something else.  So there is no upper limit for morphine, oxycodone or methadone.  You keep taking more until you get the dose that benefits you.  That is one simple rule that many docs don’t like.  Some incorrectly believe that there is some "magic" number that if they pass that dose, the patient (still in horrible pain) will stop breathing.  That is simply NOT true.  No one will be dying from respiratory failure from too much narcotic while they still have significant pain.  Pain is the PERFECT antagonist for opiates…better than naloxone. Cost can be a significant factor, but I have not encountered that yet.  I know I will, just not yet. It does sound like you have a great pain doc.  Stick with her and tell your friends about her too. — Bill Work

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Personally, it is my last choice for long-acting, oral narcotics. Notice I said "personally".  It has a half-life of 24 hours but you must take it three times a day for pain relief. Is the 3x/day dosing the reason you don’t like the methadone, or is there another reason for not liking it? It surely is a life saver cost wise for those who cannot afford the high prices of OxyContin and other meds which have no generics. My pain-management physician also says that there is no upper limit on methadone. She prescribes whatever it takes to reach the goal that one is seeking for pain relief and gives breakthrough medication also. Now a few questions…who in the world put you on OxyContin four times a day?  What if you took 80 mg every 12 hours (not twice a day but every 12 hours)?  Does it make you too sleepy?  Do you get too much breakthrough pain? I was on OxyContin a while back and found it to be practically useless for me. My first pain-management physician started me out on 3x/day because he said that it didn’t last longer than 8 hours for most people. I can’t see any difference between taking OxyContin 3x/day and methadone 3x/day except for the fact that methadone works much better for me than OxyContin, and I have saved a bundle of money. Annie B.

Response:

I was wondering if you or anyone else would know where I can find information on methodone for pain management that I can print out for my Dr to read.

Joan–.–    I’ll find you something and either post it or send it to you directly, your choice.  Methadone is `wonderful` stuff!  It, at the very LEAST, doubled the quality and intensity of my life! –

Question:

This week I was diagnosed with Adult ADHD.  While this is not entirely a surprise and I am glad I’m not Bipolar instead, I am still pretty much freaking out about what this means and what the future holds, etc.  I am also worried about how the hell I will afford a psychiatrist, a psychotherapist, and prescription meds given that I am one of the many million of Americans without medical insurance.  I am about to finish grad school, assuming I don’t flunk out. I want to learn as much as possible about the disorder, treatment options, and related relationship issues.  Anecdotes about your own experiences and types of Adult ADD/ADHD would be helpful, as would insights into how you all deal with romantic relationships.  I’m a dyke, currently single, and I wonder what I can learn while I am still single that will help me navigate a successful relationship in the future – assuming I don’t "scare the horses" with my diagnosis. What were you *like" before your diagnosis, and then after treatment began?  Can you give me some specific behavioral examples that illustrate your experiences? Is it possible to manage ADHD without meds? Which meds work – and how? Will I magically be come a more productive and focused person on meds, less prone to anger and irritability, more capable of holding a rewarding job, and more calm/less distracted?  If I go on meds, will my sex drive suffer, will I gain weight, or will I have to deal with other unpleasant side effects? I have already been on and have come off Paxil, Zoloft, Effexor and Topamax, which were prescribed for panic disorder – all of which made me either suicidal, catatonic, seriously deperssed, or sexually numb.  I don’t want to go through that again! What experiences do you have of dealing with co-morbid conditions such as panic disorder, anxiety, and depression. One last thing – I am probably the only 34 year-old American who does not drive and never has.  I suspect that my fear of driving may have something to do with being ADHD, but I don’t know.  It could also be a phobia – or simply related to my panic disorder, but basically I am scared shitless of either killing myself or someone else if I get behind the wheel of a car.  I find it difficult to integrate looking around me, figuring out which road I need to turn into, figuring out which lane to be in, watching for small children or red lights, or obstacles, and signalling appropriately, as well as actually operating the machinery.  Has anyone ever heard of this sort of problem, or experienced something similar? Now that I live in California, I really need to get over it and get a license and a car, because SD Transit is killing my social life! Your input would be greatly appreciated. Vik San Diego, CA

Response:

This week I was diagnosed with Adult ADHD.  While this is not entirely

a surprise and I am glad I’m not Bipolar instead, I am still pretty much freaking out about what this means and what the future holds, etc.  I am also worried about how the hell I will afford a psychiatrist, a psychotherapist, and prescription meds given that I am one of the many million of Americans without medical insurance.  I am about to finish grad school, assuming I don’t flunk out. Whoa… hold on here… Just remember–you didn’t just "get" ADHD–you just got "diagnosed"–this should be a good thing–not something to freak you out.  The key is to realize that you have obviously developed some coping mechanisms since you have made it to grad school–the thing is, some of them are helpful and some are harmful.  You will be able to figure which are which as you educate yourself on the dis-ease that you have always had.   As for not having medical insurance–shame on you–but BOY do I understand!! (I too am a poor perpetual student–veterinary resident–so a little pay, but not quiet minmum wage when you work it out–thank goodness I get medical insurance through the state as I work at a university). There are programs through the drug companies to provide medication at a reduced or free rate to qualified individuals.  Ask the Dr. who diagnosed you to use "samples" when trying a new drug so you don’t spend money on meds that aren’t going to work for you. <<I want to learn as much as possible about the disorder, treatment options, and related relationship issues.  Anecdotes about your own experiences and types of Adult ADD/ADHD would be helpful, as would insights into how you all deal with romantic relationships.  I’m a dyke, currently single, and I wonder what I can learn while I am still single that will help me navigate a successful relationship in the future – assuming I don’t "scare the horses" with my diagnosis. This entire forum is a good place for anecdotes–but remember that everyone’s experiences will be different–although I bet you will recognize yourself in many of them! <<What were you *like" before your diagnosis, and then after treatment began?  Can you give me some specific behavioral examples that illustrate your experiences? I was diagnosed as a 7 year old, but through structure and activity I didn’t need meds until I was "on my own" and having more responsibilities without any "love-ingly nagging" parents to help me organize my time.  But some of my symptoms: –the small child lying in the middle of the grocery store aisle kicking and screaming –severe seperation anxiety–camp was a HUGE ordeal–ended up loving it in the end –Very creative ("gifted"), but insisted on doing things MY way –"hyper-emotional" "hyper-mature" –Would rather hang out with just a few friends than a big group (easily overstimulated) –On the go –Happiest "doing" rather than watching (ie–interrupting, 18 projects going on at once, very active in sports) –Impulse spending –Moody–especially PMS –oh yea–had anxiety issues that led to skin picking Since treatment: Straterra 80mg/Effexor 150 +37.5 during PMS/Buspar 20-30mg) –Realize when i am procrastinating (See "Motivation" thread on the forum –Realize when I am interrupting–unless it is something I am really excited about–then usually realize after the fact–oops! –More rational about my emotions, realize when I am heading toward a HULK episode–can usually nip it in the bud–not always… –Activity level still high –skin picking less–again–realize it, but don’t always choose to stop it. –Still moody after big changes in activity (ie–semi depressed after a big project is done…) Basically with meds i can monitor my behavior better–doesn’t always mean I change it as habits die hard! <<Is it possible to manage ADHD without meds? Which meds work – and how? Will I magically be come a more productive and focused person on meds,less prone to anger and irritability, more capable of holding a rewarding job, and more calm/less distracted?  If I go on meds, will my sex drive suffer, will I gain weight, or will I have to deal with other unpleasant side effects? I have already been on and have come off Paxil, Zoloft, Effexor and Topamax, which were prescribed for panic disorder – all of which made me either suicidal, catatonic, seriously deperssed, or sexually numb.  I don’t want to go through that again! I am less prone to irritability and anger for sure–probably becasue I realize when i am "overstimulated" and remove myself from the situation. I was hopeing to become magically more productive, etc.  BUT–not so…. I think the meds make me more "aware" so I can choose to change my behavior–I recommend at least a couple of sessions of therapy to recomment tricks to change your behavior. I am lucky and have had no big side effects with the meds.  The dr. has avoided true stimulants becasue of the skin picking issue (anxiety related).  I have had night sweats and that is about it. <<What experiences do you have of dealing with co-morbid conditions such as panic disorder, anxiety, and depression. All very common with ADHD.  Usually treating ADHD (if that is the underlying cause) diminishes the others to some degree. <<One last thing – I am probably the only 34 year-old American who does not drive and never has.  I suspect that my fear of driving may have something to do with being ADHD, but I don’t know.  It could also be a phobia – or simply related to my panic disorder, but basically I am scared shitless of either killing myself or someone else if I get behind the wheel of a car.  I find it difficult to integrate looking around me, figuring out which road I need to turn into, figuring out which lane to be in, watching for small children or red lights, or obstacles, and signalling appropriately, as well as actually operating the machinery.  Has anyone ever heard of this sort of problem, or experienced something similar? Now that I live in California, I really need to get over it and get a license and a car, because SD Transit is killing my social life! I think this is probably a learned behavior by now, so treating the ADHD may help you some, but overcoming your fear will take more than meds.  I reccomend finding a calm, supportive friend to help you start driving in a parking lot where you don’t have so many distractions. <<Your input would be greatly appreciated. Good luck!  Hang in there! RV

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This week I was diagnosed with Adult ADHD.  While this is not entirely a surprise and I am glad I’m not Bipolar instead, I am still pretty much freaking out about what this means and what the future holds, etc.  I am also worried about how the hell I will afford a psychiatrist, a psychotherapist, and prescription meds given that I am one of the many million of Americans without medical insurance.  I am about to finish grad school, assuming I don’t flunk out. I want to learn as much as possible about the disorder, treatment options, and related relationship issues.  Anecdotes about your own experiences and types of Adult ADD/ADHD would be helpful, as would insights into how you all deal with romantic relationships.  I’m a dyke, currently single, and I wonder what I can learn while I am still single that will help me navigate a successful relationship in the future – assuming I don’t "scare the horses" with my diagnosis. What were you *like" before your diagnosis, and then after treatment began?  Can you give me some specific behavioral examples that illustrate your experiences? Is it possible to manage ADHD without meds? Which meds work – and how? Will I magically be come a more productive and focused person on meds, less prone to anger and irritability, more capable of holding a rewarding job, and more calm/less distracted?  If I go on meds, will my sex drive suffer, will I gain weight, or will I have to deal with other unpleasant side effects? I have already been on and have come off Paxil, Zoloft, Effexor and Topamax, which were prescribed for panic disorder – all of which made me either suicidal, catatonic, seriously deperssed, or sexually numb.  I don’t want to go through that again! What experiences do you have of dealing with co-morbid conditions such as panic disorder, anxiety, and depression. One last thing – I am probably the only 34 year-old American who does not drive and never has.  I suspect that my fear of driving may have something to do with being ADHD, but I don’t know.  It could also be a phobia – or simply related to my panic disorder, but basically I am scared shitless of either killing myself or someone else if I get behind the wheel of a car.  I find it difficult to integrate looking around me, figuring out which road I need to turn into, figuring out which lane to be in, watching for small children or red lights, or obstacles, and signalling appropriately, as well as actually operating the machinery.  Has anyone ever heard of this sort of problem, or experienced something similar? Now that I live in California, I really need to get over it and get a license and a car, because SD Transit is killing my social life! Your input would be greatly appreciated. Vik San Diego, CA

Vik <Big Preface No-one here that Ive seen will give you medical advice nor should they. Opinions – at least from me are just that – only opinions. Everyone here seems different but you will be able to identlify The people here are nice </Big Preface I am also newly diagnosed and kinda get the freaking bit but for different reasons. To address the issues I think your looking at re freaking…. I look at this slightly differently. To me ADD has upsides that I havent seen mentioned here. Having said that Im mildly ADD and havent been as obviously hammered as some. Statistically your likely to have an above average IQ. This is a good thing. The ability to hyperfocus is a good thing (if/when you can access it) particularly in conjunction with the IQ thing.If youre interested you can keep many things going at once – and on it goes. For me it aint all bad. I see it a little bit like being colour blind but making up for that by being able to see in the dark. Unfortuneatly the world operates in colour which is where I come unstuck. Im on Dex which basically allows me to see enough colour that I can work with people better. From what Ive seen there are two distinct groups here. Those that have the "H" and those who dont. Im one of the latter. Im probably Hypoactive not Hyper. I tend to have extended vague-outs. Cant comment to much on cost but for me Dex costs AU$23.00/month Dealing with people for me has been *so* much easier for a variety of reasons. All those little things that used to give me the shits just dont any more. Im *much* more patient. I dont interrupt others while theyre talking anywhere near as much as I used to so people dont get as pissed of at me. FTR this absolutely isnt a doped up / drugged patience,its a Im more alert but can deal with it thing. People smile at you in the morning and you actually notice and smile back. Dont know why youd "scare the horses". If you were diabetic would you feel the need to announce it at first meeting? Colour blind, had a heart condition ? I wouldnt/dont tell anyone that doesnt need to know. If you have someone who is getting close to you you might want to prep them with a "how to deal with me" talk but til them its no-ones business but yours. Dex makes me more focused but along with the procrastination I have to work on it. Meds arent,for me, a "cure". The effect is very much like the interrupting thing. I still start to interrupt at the moment but catch myself with my mouth open – I then have the choice as to what to do. If I find a moth Im far more likely to get distracted – realise Ive been distracted and get back to what I was doing. If Im procrastinating Dex lowers the hill I have to climb. The hill is still there but much smaller. Dex,as I understand it,typically reduces appetite. This has been the case with me but Ive always had to schedul meals and make sure I ate them – skinny guy lightening metabolism . One flash and its ash. My Doc here in Australia said that Ritalin is typically given to kids and Dex to adults – at least for the first prescription for just this reason (amongst others). In terms of holding a job Im statistically in the highest earning 10% in the country. I got it without meds and being self taught in my field and I enjoy what I do. Sounds like I make a fortune but have a look at the stats from the US which Im sure would be similar and Im sure youll be surprise how low that number is. I was. BTW – normally Id find this bit *really* tacky. I hate talking about incomes but it does prove you can function and hold down a good job. Re sex drive Some of the meds have the unfortunate side effect with guys of increasing desire but decreasing ability – not sure how that would work with a lady So….there you go …..my two cents worth Rod

Response:

As for not having medical insurance–shame on you–but BOY do I understand!! (I too am a poor perpetual student–veterinary resident–so a

Do your student fees include medical coverage? Some do. little pay, but not quiet minmum wage when you work it out–thank goodness I get medical insurance through the state as I work at a university). There are programs through the drug companies to provide medication at a reduced or free rate to qualified individuals.  Ask the Dr. who diagnosed you to use "samples" when trying a new drug so you don’t spend money on meds that aren’t going to work for you.

Doctors can’t give out "samples" of regulated drugs, which includes the more common ADD treatments.         Bob Kaplow      NAR # 18L       TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD"                 To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<< Kaplow Klips & Baffle:      http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf     www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/    www.nira-rocketry.org    www.nar.org  Save Model Rocketry from the HSA!   http://www.space-rockets.com/congress.html

Response:

There are programs through the drug companies to provide medication at a reduced or free rate to qualified individuals.

If you’re in the US you can check if the med you’re prescribed is on one of these programs at: http://www.needymeds.com/ . Multiple listings of any med means it’s available via different programs. Vashti

Response:

.  I’m a dyke, currently single, and I wonder what I can learn while I am still single that will help me navigate a successful relationship in the future – assuming I don’t "scare the horses" with my diagnosis.

Here in England dyke means lesbian. It is an offensive word – like faggot.

Response:

<<Doctors can’t give out "samples" of regulated drugs, which includes the more common ADD treatments. –Oh yea–good point!  In the veterinary field we don’t have to worry about that so much.  Occ. we do get the "drug-hunting" owner.  I guess I was also thinking of Straterra in particular.

Response:

.  I’m a dyke, currently single, and I wonder what I can learn while I am still single that will help me navigate a successful relationship in the future – assuming I don’t "scare the horses" with my diagnosis. Here in England dyke means lesbian. It is an offensive word – like faggot.

It is offensive in the US as well, if, and only if, used by persons who are not lesbians to refer to persons who are lesbians.   For example there are numerous motorcycle clubs and bicycle clubs around the world calling themselves "Dykes on Bikes" including one in London <http://www.geocities.com/dykesonbikesuk/.  And referring to a pair of diagonal-cutting pliers or the famous earthworks in the Netherlands as "dykes" is not generally offensive to anyone except those who are determined to be offended. — –John Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This week I was diagnosed with Adult ADHD.  While this is not entirely a surprise and I am glad I’m not Bipolar instead, I am still pretty much freaking out about what this means and what the future holds, etc.  I am also worried about how the hell I will afford a psychiatrist, a psychotherapist, and prescription meds given that I am one of the many million of Americans without medical insurance.  I am about to finish grad school, assuming I don’t flunk out. I want to learn as much as possible about the disorder, treatment options, and related relationship issues.  Anecdotes about your own experiences and types of Adult ADD/ADHD would be helpful, as would insights into how you all deal with romantic relationships.  I’m a dyke, currently single, and I wonder what I can learn while I am still single that will help me navigate a successful relationship in the future – assuming I don’t "scare the horses" with my diagnosis. What were you *like" before your diagnosis, and then after treatment began?  Can you give me some specific behavioral examples that illustrate your experiences? Is it possible to manage ADHD without meds? Which meds work – and how? Will I magically be come a more productive and focused person on meds, less prone to anger and irritability, more capable of holding a rewarding job, and more calm/less distracted?  If I go on meds, will my sex drive suffer, will I gain weight, or will I have to deal with other unpleasant side effects? I have already been on and have come off Paxil, Zoloft, Effexor and Topamax, which were prescribed for panic disorder – all of which made me either suicidal, catatonic, seriously deperssed, or sexually numb.  I don’t want to go through that again! What experiences do you have of dealing with co-morbid conditions such as panic disorder, anxiety, and depression. One last thing – I am probably the only 34 year-old American who does not drive and never has.  I suspect that my fear of driving may have something to do with being ADHD, but I don’t know.  It could also be a phobia – or simply related to my panic disorder, but basically I am scared shitless of either killing myself or someone else if I get behind the wheel of a car.  I find it difficult to integrate looking around me, figuring out which road I need to turn into, figuring out which lane to be in, watching for small children or red lights, or obstacles, and signalling appropriately, as well as actually operating the machinery.  Has anyone ever heard of this sort of problem, or experienced something similar? Now that I live in California, I really need to get over it and get a license and a car, because SD Transit is killing my social life!

That’s interesting.  I was surprised that a friend’s teenager wasn’t raring to get behind the wheel–I asked her about it and she said she "doesn’t multi-task very well" and seemed to be afraid.  Kind of surprising because she seems to be the adventurous sort otherwise.  Not ADHD–she was evaluated for that and found not to have it.  I wonder if you and she are experiencing the same thing? One thing that may help–don’t try to learn in a city–if you can find a friend who’ll take you out far from the madding crowd and let you practice on back roads in the country where you don’t have to go fast or dodge a lot of traffic you can get the conditioned responses down and once you’ve done that so that you don’t have to constantly think about the mechanics of keeping the car on the road and going straight the whole thing may become a lot easier for you. Your input would be greatly appreciated. Vik San Diego, CA

– –John Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Response:

Here in England dyke means lesbian. It is an offensive word – like faggot.

Here in the US dyke means lesbian too.  I didn’t mean to imply that I am a kangaroo or something – I meant to explain that I am a gay woman. And in England, where I am originally from and lived for a total of 18 years so far, lots of dykes self-ID as dykes.  Lots of lesbians self-ID as lesbians there too.  And lots of English queers self-ID as queer.  I guess any of these terms are only offensive to those who have not reclaimed the langugage. With that said, while in the UK, I’ve only lived in Sheffield, Liverpool, and London as a dyke – maybe in your neck of the woods (and social strata) the term ‘dyke’ is not the sexuality descriptive of choice. But it is for me. Cheers mate, Vik

Response:

And referring to a pair of diagonal-cutting pliers or the famous earthworks in the Netherlands as "dykes" is not generally offensive to anyone except those who are determined to be offended.

Better yet being referred to as being akin to a dike is a *complement*. A dike is considered a great thing and somewhere along the line the phrase was born: "Zij is een dijk van een vrouw" would translate literally as : she’s a dike of a woman, ie a great/strong woman. Used to describe those of either gender in a positive way. Don’t know about the diagonal-cutting pliers though, you lost me on that one. Vashti

Response:

Is it possible to manage ADHD without meds? Which meds work – and how? Will I magically be come a more productive and focused person on meds, less prone to anger and irritability, more capable of holding a rewarding job, and more calm/less distracted?  If I go on meds, will my sex drive suffer, will I gain weight, or will I have to deal with other unpleasant side effects?

Answering these questions form my experience only: It is possible to manage ADD without meds, until it isn’t.  With me, it became much less possible once I had kids. Generic Ritalin (methylphenidate) works great for me and it’s cheap. Yes I did become magically more productive, etc.  But I’m still ADD. The differences are usually subtle, but good.  My driving got much better. My sex drive didn’t change at all.  In fact my meds make it easier to concentrate, so if anything it’s better. No weight gain, sleep difficulties, or any other side effects.  I’m lucky, but I think this is the case more often than not.

Response:

: This week I was diagnosed with Adult ADHD.  While this is not entirely : a surprise and I am glad I’m not Bipolar instead, I am still pretty : much freaking out about what this means and what the future holds, : etc.  I am also worried about how the hell I will afford a : psychiatrist, a psychotherapist, and prescription meds given that I am : one of the many million of Americans without medical insurance.  I am : about to finish grad school, assuming I don’t flunk out. What about your Student Health Centre? Financial Aid may have bursaries for help. That’s how i paid for my eight hours ($1200) of AD/HD testing. The Doc i see who specializes in AD/HD is at Student Health. For the last four years, i have had a job on campus working with students. I have learned a lot about how to deal with such situations. (e.g. finding resources!) What school are you at? : panic disorder – all of which made me either suicidal, catatonic, : seriously deperssed, or sexually numb.  I don’t want to go through : that again! The panic/anxiety/depression gets better with meds. Ritalin didn’t calm me down, but Dexedrine does. In retrospect, much of that anxiety is from benig scatter-brained and panicked over feeling like a disorganized walking disaster, i found. The depression was the helplessness over my workload (due to Executive impairments.) You may want to look up the phrase "Executive Function" on GOOGLE, to understand what in the brain is impaired. : What experiences do you have of dealing with co-morbid conditions such : as panic disorder, anxiety, and depression. See above. : One last thing – I am probably the only 34 year-old American who does : not drive and never has.  I suspect that my fear of driving may have : something to do with being ADHD, but I don’t know.  It could also be a : phobia – or simply related to my panic disorder, but basically I am : scared shitless of either killing myself or someone else if I get : behind the wheel of a car.  I find it difficult to integrate looking : around me, figuring out which road I need to turn into, figuring out : which lane to be in, watching for small children or red lights, or : obstacles, and signalling appropriately, as well as actually operating : the machinery.  Has anyone ever heard of this sort of problem, or : experienced something similar? Now that I live in California, I really : need to get over it and get a license and a car, because SD Transit is : killing my social life! Yup. AD/HDers have a higher rate of accidents — likely due to inattention and/or impulsivity. But with some help and planning, you will manage. <G Emma

Response:

I am also recently pre-diagnosed with probably ADHD. For me, this is an incredible relief as the previous Bipolar diagnosis left me with unsuitable meds that didn’t even come cloe to helping me feel and/or be Normal. And when I say Normal, I mean MY definition of Normal. All I need to do now is verify what pill is pinkish-orange and has a ’score-line’ to help cut it in half, with the number 4930 over the ’score-line’ and the letter V under it. Does anyone have a recent PDR they could look this thing up in for me, please? TIA

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am also recently pre-diagnosed with probably ADHD. For me, this is an incredible relief as the previous Bipolar diagnosis left me with unsuitable meds that didn’t even come cloe to helping me feel and/or be Normal. And when I say Normal, I mean MY definition of Normal. All I need to do now is verify what pill is pinkish-orange and has a ’score-line’ to help cut it in half, with the number 4930 over the ’score-line’ and the letter V under it. Does anyone have a recent PDR they could look this thing up in for me, please?

You can sign up for an online PDR here: http://www.pdr.net/pdrnet/librarian

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am also recently pre-diagnosed with probably ADHD. For me, this is an incredible relief as the previous Bipolar diagnosis left me with unsuitable meds that didn’t even come cloe to helping me feel and/or be Normal. And when I say Normal, I mean MY definition of Normal. All I need to do now is verify what pill is pinkish-orange and has a ’score-line’ to help cut it in half, with the number 4930 over the ’score-line’ and the letter V under it. Does anyone have a recent PDR they could look this thing up in for me, please? You can sign up for an online PDR here: http://www.pdr.net/pdrnet/librarian

AWESOME!  THANK YOU!

Response:

Question:

Hi allemaal; Ik ben toch nog thuis dit weekend, en dat boven alle verwachtingen. Het leek er eerst niet erg op en al helemaal niet toen ik vanmiddag een PA aanval kreeg bij m’n Pdoc op de kamer.  En die was zo ingemeen, het kwam totaal uit het niets. Ik heb Philip nog gebeld deze week en heb ook verteld hoe het er nu voor staat, hij zal jullie het wel laten weten. Volgende week gaat m’n Pdoc de Efexor verhogen, dus het is nog afwachten wat het gaat worden. Ik hoop dat ik wat minder aan PA aanvallen krijg, het maakt je zo moe. En ik ken dan ook beginnen met de CBT, en dat is nu nog niet mogelijk. IK ga nog te vaak op de run, en ik zie het nog niet erg zitten maar misscien komt dat nog. Ik weet wel dat ik het wil proberen, en vooral als jullie achter mij blijven staan. Ik houd van jullie mijn asap family. Liefs Diana.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi allemaal; Ik ben toch nog thuis dit weekend, en dat boven alle verwachtingen. Het leek er eerst niet erg op en al helemaal niet toen ik vanmiddag een PA aanval kreeg bij m’n Pdoc op de kamer.  En die was zo ingemeen, het kwam totaal uit het niets. Ik heb Philip nog gebeld deze week en heb ook verteld hoe het er nu voor staat, hij zal jullie het wel laten weten. Volgende week gaat m’n Pdoc de Efexor verhogen, dus het is nog afwachten wat het gaat worden. Ik hoop dat ik wat minder aan PA aanvallen krijg, het maakt je zo moe. En ik ken dan ook beginnen met de CBT, en dat is nu nog niet mogelijk. IK ga nog te vaak op de run, en ik zie het nog niet erg zitten maar misscien komt dat nog. Ik weet wel dat ik het wil proberen, en vooral als jullie achter mij blijven staan. Ik houd van jullie mijn asap family. Liefs Diana.

TRANSLATION: Hi all; I am at home for the weekend after all, beyond all expectations. I didn’t think I could do it, especially when this afternoon I got a PA in my pdoc’s office. It was a particularly nasty one, completely out of the blue. I called Philip earlier this week and told him how things stand. He will let you know. (Ha! Did that already! PP) Next week the doc will raise the Effexor dose so I have to wait what will happen. I hope I will have fewer PA’s, they make me so tired. I can then start CBT too which is not yet possible now. I still run away too often and I am not feeling well at all but perhaps I will later. I know that I want to try, especially if you are behind me. I love you, my ASAP family! Diana

Response:

[snipped]  I know that I want to try, especially if you are behind me. Yes we are behind you Diana. You sound better. Thanks Philip for translating, – Kinder

Response:

Hi, Diana, It is great to hear from you.  You sound optimistic!  We are here for you and thinking of you all the time…  I am sending you strength to get through this rough time. smiles, Elise

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi allemaal; Ik ben toch nog thuis dit weekend, en dat boven alle verwachtingen. Het leek er eerst niet erg op en al helemaal niet toen ik vanmiddag een PA aanval kreeg bij m’n Pdoc op de kamer.  En die was zo ingemeen, het kwam totaal uit het niets. Ik heb Philip nog gebeld deze week en heb ook verteld hoe het er nu voor staat, hij zal jullie het wel laten weten. Volgende week gaat m’n Pdoc de Efexor verhogen, dus het is nog afwachten wat het gaat worden. Ik hoop dat ik wat minder aan PA aanvallen krijg, het maakt je zo moe. En ik ken dan ook beginnen met de CBT, en dat is nu nog niet mogelijk. IK ga nog te vaak op de run, en ik zie het nog niet erg zitten maar misscien komt dat nog. Ik weet wel dat ik het wil proberen, en vooral als jullie achter mij blijven staan. Ik houd van jullie mijn asap family. Liefs Diana.

Response:

Hi Diana- Just wanted you to know I was at temple tonight and i thought of you when we said a healing prayer. Be well. les. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hi allemaal; Ik ben toch nog thuis dit weekend, en dat boven alle verwachtingen. Het leek er eerst niet erg op en al helemaal niet toen ik vanmiddag een PA aanval kreeg bij m’n Pdoc op de kamer. En die was zo ingemeen, het kwam totaal uit het niets. Ik heb Philip nog gebeld deze week en heb ook verteld hoe het er nu voor staat, hij zal jullie het wel laten weten. Volgende week gaat m’n Pdoc de Efexor verhogen, dus het is nog afwachten wat het gaat worden. Ik hoop dat ik wat minder aan PA aanvallen krijg, het maakt je zo moe. En ik ken dan ook beginnen met de CBT, en dat is nu nog niet mogelijk. IK ga nog te vaak op de run, en ik zie het nog niet erg zitten maar misscien komt dat nog. Ik weet wel dat ik het wil proberen, en vooral als jullie achter mij blijven staan. Ik houd van jullie mijn asap family. Liefs Diana.

Response:

Diana wrote……. Next week the doc will raise the Effexor dose so I have to wait what will happen. I hope I will have fewer PA’s, they make me so tired. I can then start CBT too which is not yet possible now. I still run away too often and I am not feeling well at all but perhaps I will later. I know that I want to try, especially if you are behind me.

Dear Diana, It is always wonderful to hear from you Good luck with the Effexor and remember that ASAP will always be behind you dear!~ {{{{{Diana}}}}} Jackie

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi allemaal; Ik ben toch nog thuis dit weekend, en dat boven alle verwachtingen. Het leek er eerst niet erg op en al helemaal niet toen ik vanmiddag een PA aanval kreeg bij m’n Pdoc op de kamer.  En die was zo ingemeen, het kwam totaal uit het niets. Ik heb Philip nog gebeld deze week en heb ook verteld hoe het er nu voor staat, hij zal jullie het wel laten weten. Volgende week gaat m’n Pdoc de Efexor verhogen, dus het is nog afwachten wat het gaat worden. Ik hoop dat ik wat minder aan PA aanvallen krijg, het maakt je zo moe. En ik ken dan ook beginnen met de CBT, en dat is nu nog niet mogelijk. IK ga nog te vaak op de run, en ik zie het nog niet erg zitten maar misscien komt dat nog. Ik weet wel dat ik het wil proberen, en vooral als jullie achter mij blijven staan. Ik houd van jullie mijn asap family. Liefs Diana.

Dag dag dag Lieve Diana )))))))) Wat fijn dat je toch even naar huis mocht ! Ik hoop toch zo voor je,dat het vlug wat beter gaat. Je ‘klinkt’ een beetje beter. Wij hier staan altijd achter je !!! Zo dan. Je bent heel moedig. Veel grote kussen van Anna

Response:

Hi Diana, Have no doubt…we are all behind you. I hope the  effexor works out for you. {{{{{{ Diana }}}}}} take care Pete – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hi all; I am at home for the weekend after all, beyond all expectations. I didn’t think I could do it, especially when this afternoon I got a PA in my pdoc’s office. It was a particularly nasty one, completely out of the blue. I called Philip earlier this week and told him how things stand. He will let you know. (Ha! Did that already! PP) Next week the doc will raise the Effexor dose so I have to wait what will happen. I hope I will have fewer PA’s, they make me so tired. I can then start CBT too which is not yet possible now. I still run away too often and I am not feeling well at all but perhaps I will later. I know that I want to try, especially if you are behind me. I love you, my ASAP family! Diana

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all; I am at home for the weekend after all, beyond all expectations. I didn’t think I could do it, especially when this afternoon I got a PA in my pdoc’s office. It was a particularly nasty one, completely out of the blue. I called Philip earlier this week and told him how things stand. He will let you know. (Ha! Did that already! PP) Next week the doc will raise the Effexor dose so I have to wait what will happen. I hope I will have fewer PA’s, they make me so tired. I can then start CBT too which is not yet possible now. I still run away too often and I am not feeling well at all but perhaps I will later. I know that I want to try, especially if you are behind me. I love you, my ASAP family! Diana

So glad to hear from you, Diana.  I will keep praying that the Effexor will work for you, and that you will feel better soon.  I think of you often. — Take care, Liz To everything there is a season …and to every season, a special beauty.

Response:

Hoi Diana, Wat fijn dat je toch nog thuis bent gekomen dit weekend en ook nog even van je laat horen. Ik hoop ook dat het echt gauw beter met je gaat. Ook ik vind dat je wat beter klinkt. Ik ga voor je duimen dat het snel beter gaat en dat je gauw kan beginnen met de CBT. Aan jouw uithoudingsvermogen zal het in elk geval niet liggen. Blijf volhouden en natuurlijk blijf ook ik achter je staan. Ik wens je alle sterkte doe die je nu zo hard nodig hebt. Liefs, Francis althijs schreef: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi allemaal; Ik ben toch nog thuis dit weekend, en dat boven alle verwachtingen. Het leek er eerst niet erg op en al helemaal niet toen ik vanmiddag een PA aanval kreeg bij m’n Pdoc op de kamer.  En die was zo ingemeen, het kwam totaal uit het niets. Ik heb Philip nog gebeld deze week en heb ook verteld hoe het er nu voor staat, hij zal jullie het wel laten weten. Volgende week gaat m’n Pdoc de Efexor verhogen, dus het is nog afwachten wat het gaat worden. Ik hoop dat ik wat minder aan PA aanvallen krijg, het maakt je zo moe. En ik ken dan ook beginnen met de CBT, en dat is nu nog niet mogelijk. IK ga nog te vaak op de run, en ik zie het nog niet erg zitten maar misscien komt dat nog. Ik weet wel dat ik het wil proberen, en vooral als jullie achter mij blijven staan. Ik houd van jullie mijn asap family. Liefs Diana.

Response:

Diana,     You really do seem much better! We are all behind you and wishing you well. We care, and we do not forget you. Boyd

: :

: : Hi allemaal; : : Ik ben toch nog thuis dit weekend, en dat boven alle verwachtingen. : Het leek er eerst niet erg op en al helemaal niet toen ik vanmiddag een PA : aanval : kreeg bij m’n Pdoc op de kamer. :  En die was zo ingemeen, het kwam totaal uit het niets. : Ik heb Philip nog gebeld deze week en heb ook verteld hoe het er nu voor : staat, : hij zal jullie het wel laten weten. : Volgende week gaat m’n Pdoc de Efexor verhogen, dus het is nog afwachten wat : het gaat worden. Ik hoop dat ik wat minder aan PA aanvallen krijg, het maakt : je zo moe. : En ik ken dan ook beginnen met de CBT, en dat is nu nog niet mogelijk. : IK ga nog te vaak op de run, en ik zie het nog niet erg zitten maar misscien : komt dat nog. : Ik weet wel dat ik het wil proberen, en vooral als jullie achter mij blijven : staan. : : Ik houd van jullie mijn asap family. : : Liefs Diana. : : TRANSLATION: : : Hi all; : I am at home for the weekend after all, beyond all expectations. : I didn’t think I could do it, especially when this afternoon I got a PA in my : pdoc’s office. It was a particularly nasty one, completely out of the blue. : I called Philip earlier this week and told him how things stand. He will let you : know. : (Ha! Did that already! PP) : Next week the doc will raise the Effexor dose so I have to wait what will : happen. I hope I will have fewer PA’s, they make me so tired. : I can then start CBT too which is not yet possible now. : I still run away too often and I am not feeling well at all but perhaps I will : later. : I know that I want to try, especially if you are behind me. : : I love you, my ASAP family! : : Diana :

Response:

Thanks Phillip :  ) Diana, I’m glad to hear the you are home for the weekend. Are you able to sleep at night now ? I know when I was feeling very out of control and having panic attacks every day that I was able to relax by taking Xanax. Next I went to see a psychiatrist for the first time and he prescribed Zoloft and Clonazepam.  I’m still taking these two meds after 5 years and they do prevent me from having bad panic attacks. I always believed I would get better and I think that one’s attitude makes a big difference for any type of sickness. Everyone is cheering you on at ASAP and we want you to get better. You will get to the beach with Phillip this Spring :  ) Take care, Tony

| |

| | Hi allemaal; | | Ik ben toch nog thuis dit weekend, en dat boven alle verwachtingen. | Het leek er eerst niet erg op en al helemaal niet toen ik vanmiddag een PA | aanval | kreeg bij m’n Pdoc op de kamer. |  En die was zo ingemeen, het kwam totaal uit het niets. | Ik heb Philip nog gebeld deze week en heb ook verteld hoe het er nu voor | staat, | hij zal jullie het wel laten weten. | Volgende week gaat m’n Pdoc de Efexor verhogen, dus het is nog afwachten wat | het gaat worden. Ik hoop dat ik wat minder aan PA aanvallen krijg, het maakt | je zo moe. | En ik ken dan ook beginnen met de CBT, en dat is nu nog niet mogelijk. | IK ga nog te vaak op de run, en ik zie het nog niet erg zitten maar misscien | komt dat nog. | Ik weet wel dat ik het wil proberen, en vooral als jullie achter mij blijven | staan. | | Ik houd van jullie mijn asap family. | | Liefs Diana. | | TRANSLATION: | | Hi all; | I am at home for the weekend after all, beyond all expectations. | I didn’t think I could do it, especially when this afternoon I got a PA in my | pdoc’s office. It was a particularly nasty one, completely out of the blue. | I called Philip earlier this week and told him how things stand. He will let you | know. | (Ha! Did that already! PP) | Next week the doc will raise the Effexor dose so I have to wait what will | happen. I hope I will have fewer PA’s, they make me so tired. | I can then start CBT too which is not yet possible now. | I still run away too often and I am not feeling well at all but perhaps I will | later. | I know that I want to try, especially if you are behind me. | | I love you, my ASAP family! | | Diana | |

Response:

Question:

I was told I have mild case of Gerd earlier this year. I was getting allot of acid reflux. Since then I have been on Protonix and the reflux has stopped, BUT I get a lump feeling in my throat everyday, and sometimes just feel sick to my stomach? Does anyone have these same symptoms or know what they are ? Thanks

Response:

I wish there were more people lurking around here…. I’m not sure, sorry!   try…..www.gerd-support.com/

Response:

I get this same feeling and was told, by my GI MD, that it’s called a "globus sensation," and is caused by acid coming back up the esophagus.  At first, I thought I was going to choke on some food remnants, however, after the cause was explained to me, I now know it’s just part of the reflux problem.  Have you told your MD about this?  I would if I were you, because it’s possible that the Protonix is not working fully for you, and/or your dosage may need to be changed.  I’ve been on Tagamet, Prilosec, Protonix, and Aciphex, and nothing has really worked for me.  Yesterday I went for an EGD (esophagogstroduodenoscopy) and for the first time in one year, I no longer had the "lump in the throat" feeling.  I can only hope it lasts for a long time.  In one week I will know the results of the biopsies taken during the EGD. Hope this helps. Sharon

Response:

I had the camera go down my throat, is that what you had. If so I wonder why you didnt have the lump sensation after having the procedure ?  I dont get the bad reflux like l use to so maybe just a little reflux cause the lump sensation…. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I get this same feeling and was told, by my GI MD, that it’s called a "globus sensation," and is caused by acid coming back up the esophagus.  At first, I thought I was going to choke on some food remnants, however, after the cause was explained to me, I now know it’s just part of the reflux problem.  Have you told your MD about this?  I would if I were you, because it’s possible that the Protonix is not working fully for you, and/or your dosage may need to be changed.  I’ve been on Tagamet, Prilosec, Protonix, and Aciphex, and nothing has really worked for me.  Yesterday I went for an EGD (esophagogstroduodenoscopy) and for the first time in one year, I no longer had the "lump in the throat" feeling.  I can only hope it lasts for a long time.  In one week I will know the results of the biopsies taken during the EGD. Hope this helps. Sharon

Response:

Yes, it was the tube and camera.  Actually, I was told by my ENT a while back, during an endoscopic exam, that my esophagus was extremely narrow. Since I had the EGD yesterday, I have noticed that it is easier for me to swallow my daily pills/vitamins, and I attribute that to the procedure. However, my reflux is only a trifle better.  After the procedure, I barely had a sore throat yesterday afternoon and evening, and today I’m right as rain.  I think that during the procedure the doctor must have opened up my esophagus some, and maybe fixed a few other things, because the severe burning/acid reflux did not bother me from dawn to dusk today.  For cripe sakes, I even got reflux from plain Quaker Oats oatmeal!!  Yesterday the GI MD told me to add more fiber to my diet, which may help any digestive problems I may have.  As I stated in my previous email, I won’t know the results of the EGD for one week.  I have to take this one day at a time.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I had the camera go down my throat, is that what you had. If so I wonder why you didnt have the lump sensation after having the procedure ?  I dont get the bad reflux like l use to so maybe just a little reflux cause the lump sensation….

Response:

Yes, I have the same symptoms, but my primary doc can’t explain the "lump" in my throat (actually, quite painful with trouble swallowing) that I’m having.  He treated me for GERD for several months, helped the heartburn but not the throat problem, so I’m off to a GI doc next week. Has your doc tried treating you for anxiety?  Mine did (with Xanax and Zoloft), and while it didn’t help me, it’s a common anxiety problem and perhaps a few weeks of trial meds could prove/disprove it for you? HTH, Chip

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was told I have mild case of Gerd earlier this year. I was getting allot of acid reflux. Since then I have been on Protonix and the reflux has stopped, BUT I get a lump feeling in my throat everyday, and sometimes just feel sick to my stomach? Does anyone have these same symptoms or know what they are ? Thanks

Response:

Question:

Hi, need some quick advise, i took effexor last night, 37.5 mg. I woke up today, in a state of panic, and my pupils were BIG as a watermealon. Is this a normal side effect,and what could i take to counteract this? need advise geno

Response:

Hi, need some quick advise, i took effexor last night, 37.5 mg. I woke up today, in a state of panic, and my pupils were BIG as a watermealon. Is this a normal side effect,and what could i take to counteract this? need advise geno

If I were you, I would, for starters, abstain from anything that contains caffeine or even aspartame.

Response:

geno, big pupils is a normal side effect. no worries ) there’s not much you can do about it. ~*~nwysca~*~ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, need some quick advise, i took effexor last night, 37.5 mg. I woke up today, in a state of panic, and my pupils were BIG as a watermealon. Is this a normal side effect,and what could i take to counteract this? need advise geno If I were you, I would, for starters, abstain from anything that contains caffeine or even aspartame.

Response:

Question:

Courageous,the point  I  am trying to make is that "ecstasy" is sometimes not really ecstasy at all.There are so many people making the stuff,and using so many different chemicals to make their version of it,that oftentimes the people using it have absolutely no idea what they are ingesting.And to mix any unknown chemical with Viagra(or any other drug for that matter)in an attempt to experience an ultimate sexual high,is in my opinion extremely risky.

Response:

seadog,STOP taking ecstasy.There are so many different people making the stuff that you never know exactly what might be in it.Any drug that keeps you up for hours on end partying cant be doing you a damn bit of good.And do you really enjoy that day after feeling?You know,the one where you pull the shades,turn off the phone,and hide out,like a vampire in a coffin trying to get some sleep?As for your initial question,I would definately NOT mix viagra with ecstasy.You would be toying with a mixture of drugs that could possibly do serious harm.

Response:

where you pull the shades,turn off the phone,and hide out,like a vampire in a coffin trying to get some sleep?As for your initial question,I would definately NOT mix viagra with ecstasy.You would be toying with a mixture of drugs that could possibly do serious harm.

I don’t have any reason to believe that the *mixture* is harmful, but the reason that researchers discarded MDMA as a potential antidepressant was because it was shown in research to cause negative long-term serotonin-receptor downregulation (and eradication) in rats. The thought was that the substance might with chronic use actually CAUSE (irreversible) clinical depression. I suspect that it’s no coincidence at all that MDMA abusers end up on SSRI medication for (what probably is) the rest of their life whenupon they finally decided that there life is in ruins. Keep in mind that I’m an anti-prohibitionist. If people want to fry out their brains, it should be there right. Just recall an old truism: "What goes up, must come down". C//

Response:

If you’re a big enough fool to resort to taking the mind bending crap you do to get through life, then you don’t really deserve the pleasure of an erection do you? May you suffer in silence.

Thanks for your narrow-minded input. I’m sure you bring confort to the geniuses that brought us The War on Drugs. Al

Response:

Is that a value judgement or what? OR eon^^^

Response:

Might be a value judgement but this is a support forum for people with a medical condition who are trying to alleviate a problem, not create one. If you want to experiment with non-prescription drugs, that is entirely your choice, and I for one wouldn’t stop you. But I really think you are missing the point of this forum.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is that a value judgement or what? OR eon^^^

Response:

If you’re a big enough fool to resort to taking the mind bending crap you do to get through life, then you don’t really deserve the pleasure of an erection do you?

DESERVE?????   My, my, my.  The words "glass house" come to mind.

Response:

Sorry if this has been posted before,   I’ve started so I’ll finish Has anyone out there had experience with Ecstacy and Viagra? I know when I take ecstacy it makes you more or less impotent anyway. I’m just wondering how the drugs get on together …. same for marijuana.  I dont plan on taking them together,  but I use the two drugs semi regularly. Thanks.

I felt a little bit sad that the replies to this post so far have, for the most part, been somewhat judgemental. After all, we may have a guy (probably quite young) who may have an underlying problem that is not clear from this posting. If this is the case, this post is not inappropriate here. I certainly don’t know the specific answers to this question but I would like to make a few comments that might promote open-minded discussion. I believe that, whatever your personal view of the use of no-prescription drug use, we have to accept it as "normal" in our modern society. I also think that, " a little pinch of what yer like does yer good", even though the substance is intrinsically bad for you. After all, I bet there are a good few guys on here who like a couple of beers, or a whiskey, or maybe a cigar. Whatever you do, I believe you should do it sensibly and in moderation. Ecstasy is certainly questionable but there is a a lot of evidence that can demonstrate that cannabis (separated from tobacco) is a less harmful than alcohol. Getting back to the ED / impotency point. Cut out all drug use for a while. All drugs that is, alcohol in any form, tobacco, "E", grass, tea, and coffee. Tobacco is the worst thing that you can do for your health (I guess that if you smoke cannabis this is mixed with tobacco) When you get yourself sorted out try a different substrate, maybe mint, or try one of those vaporiser things. Give it a few of weeks or so Mr seadog and see how it goes. Post in again and tell us how you get on. If you still have a problem, some of the experienced guys in here might be able to help. And, get an appointment with your doctor. Good luck, VMS

Response:

If you’re a big enough fool to resort to taking the mind bending crap you do to get through life, then you don’t really deserve the pleasure of an erection do you? May you suffer in silence. Ben Sorry if this has been posted before,   I’ve started so I’ll finish Has anyone out there had experience with Ecstacy and Viagra? I know when I take ecstacy it makes you more or less impotent anyway. I’m just wondering how the drugs get on together …. same for marijuana.  I dont plan on taking them together,  but I use the two drugs semi regularly. Thanks.

For every winner there are dozens of loosers Odds are you’re one of them.

Response:

Sorry if this has been posted before,   I’ve started so I’ll finish Has anyone out there had experience with Ecstacy and Viagra? I know when I take ecstacy it makes you more or less impotent anyway. I’m just wondering how the drugs get on together …. same for marijuana.  I dont plan on taking them together,  but I use the two drugs semi regularly. Thanks.

Response:

It is my understanding that the THC in marijuana mimics estrogen so the regular heavy smokers of the drug sometimes develop gyno. If this is the case I would think that except for getting you over some inhibitions, marijuana would contribute to rather than help ED. With ecstacy, it works by causing a massive dumping of seratonin in the brain. If the sort of mild manic feeling I used to have when I was taking prozac is any indication of how a slight increase in seratonin due to a change in it’s reuptake causes, I shutter to think what it would feel like if you took something that caused a massive dumping of it. I would think that the increased seratonin levels would make you escatic while they lasted though totally unable to have an orgasm. I would think that the seratonin depleted state your brain would be in when you came down would be extremely unpleasant. I don’t know what the long term effects of either drug might be. I’ve experienced having my brain chemistry messed up and my hormones messed up. How ever ‘great’ the high from these drugs is, I don’t think it could possibly be worth messing up one’s chemistry. I’m just real happy that I’ve finally gotten my chemistry unmessed up. So, call me an old fuddy duddy if you want but I’d stay away from both those drugs. mike71646 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sorry if this has been posted before,   I’ve started so I’ll finish Has anyone out there had experience with Ecstacy and Viagra? I know when I take ecstacy it makes you more or less impotent anyway. I’m just wondering how the drugs get on together …. same for marijuana.  I dont plan on taking them together,  but I use the two drugs semi regularly. Thanks.

Response:

Question:

Sam I was on Zoloft for 6 years. It gave me back my life. Don’t be afraid of it. You only hear the negatives , never the success stories. Be well.  Bob

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I guess I would do well to tell you a little bit about myself… -snipped the background- So I’ve been going to my doctor and seeing a psychologist. My GP has been trying to get me on medication for months. I take 2mg of Xanax to help me sleep (rather unsuccessfuly) and the Zoloft now. My psychologist resigned and moved interstate so I had to go to another one…it was hideous. So unpleasant. We argued for an hour. He said that I wasn’t depressed I was just very lazy and that perhaps I wasn’t as good as I think I am. I was shattered. So upset. This was about a month or so ago. I have been refusing to see one ever since. My GP wants me to see a psychiatrist but now I’m frightened of such negative judgements, I’m refusing to go. Does Zoloft only work in conjunction with therapy? Finding a good therapist that is a good match for you can often be more difficult and emotion/time consuming than finding a useful medication. And for some people all they need is the medication.  Everyone is different.  But one thing is for sure, medication doesn’t work as well in conjunction with a *shitty* therapist!!!   Don’t give up on getting good help.  Rely on your gut.  If one therapist is a jerk, just remember that they are only human.  Look for another one. Good luck.  Maybe keep us posted (so to speak) on your efforts?? Sincerely Stewart PS.  Your GP *can* prescribe zoloft for you, tho he/she *may* not want to do so, and may prefer to defer to a specialist for that.  If you really want to try an antidepressant and you really don’t want to talk with a psychiatrist to get it, you can find another GP who might be more willing to prescribe it for you.  Most GP’s hand out zoloft like it was candy (not that I personally think that is such a good thing, but it’s there….) — The Metaphor Man  *and*  The Great Defender of the Self (remove the SPAMBLOCK) Please send me an e-mail copy of your posted response.

Well, first of all finding a therapist who "fits" is important.  From my own experience, I was severely depressed for for years and saw a therapist for three of those four years.  We did absolutely no ‘therapy’ because I was too depressed to actually talk, but he cared about me, helped me have flashes where I almost believed I wasn’t evil – the depression was making me think so.  I think I would have died if it weren’t for my therapists support.   Angela

Response:

I guess I would do well to tell you a little bit about myself…

-snipped the background- So I’ve been going to my doctor and seeing a psychologist. My GP has been trying to get me on medication for months. I take 2mg of Xanax to help me sleep (rather unsuccessfuly) and the Zoloft now. My psychologist resigned and moved interstate so I had to go to another one…it was hideous. So unpleasant. We argued for an hour. He said that I wasn’t depressed I was just very lazy and that perhaps I wasn’t as good as I think I am. I was shattered. So upset. This was about a month or so ago. I have been refusing to see one ever since. My GP wants me to see a psychiatrist but now I’m frightened of such negative judgements, I’m refusing to go. Does Zoloft only work in conjunction with therapy?

Finding a good therapist that is a good match for you can often be more difficult and emotion/time consuming than finding a useful medication. And for some people all they need is the medication.  Everyone is different.  But one thing is for sure, medication doesn’t work as well in conjunction with a *shitty* therapist!!!   Don’t give up on getting good help.  Rely on your gut.  If one therapist is a jerk, just remember that they are only human.  Look for another one. Good luck.  Maybe keep us posted (so to speak) on your efforts?? Sincerely Stewart PS.  Your GP *can* prescribe zoloft for you, tho he/she *may* not want to do so, and may prefer to defer to a specialist for that.  If you really want to try an antidepressant and you really don’t want to talk with a psychiatrist to get it, you can find another GP who might be more willing to prescribe it for you.  Most GP’s hand out zoloft like it was candy (not that I personally think that is such a good thing, but it’s there….) — The Metaphor Man  *and*  The Great Defender of the Self (remove the SPAMBLOCK) Please send me an e-mail copy of your posted response.

Response:

Hi Stewart, Thanks for taking the time to write to me. I do appreciate it a whole lot. I guess I would do well to tell you a little bit about myself… I am a 19yo university student. I began uni. this year, enrolled in Arts/Music. I play classical piano. I’ve been very successful at it and was given the best teacher imaginable. he only accepted three students in the entire country. At the time I was over the moon, but very soon expectation kicked in. Success equals demise. Every time I find success, the expectations associated with it make me push myself away from it. I lasted a semester, withdrew from the Music component. People actually screamed at me. It was a hard decision. Music has always been what I do. I went to a specialist secondary school for music and dance students so it’s been my life for a long time. So that left me in Arts. I was studying Philosophy and Literature. I stopped going about 2 months ago and have failed the lot. Everything. Expectations! Always told how well I’m going to do, so I lash back against it. I’ve failed the lot. Everything. Anyway, so i’ve had a lot of time on my hands… and have been doing a lot of accompanying. Opera is my love. I am working with 4 fantastic singers at the moment. Only been doing it for a couple of months and already the expectations are kicking in. I’ve been too successful again. This really really bothers me. Positive comments from important people left, right and centre. Invited to play in front of 15 000 people on X-mas eve. And I’m not even studying music!!! So now that I’m succeeding at it, I’m losing interest….along with everything else *sigh*. I think perhaps I’m scared of success. If you are successful at something, failing at it becomes so much worse. So I’ve been going to my doctor and seeing a psychologist. My GP has been trying to get me on medication for months. I take 2mg of Xanax to help me sleep (rather unsuccessfuly) and the Zoloft now. My psychologist resigned and moved interstate so I had to go to another one…it was hideous. So unpleasant. We argued for an hour. He said that I wasn’t depressed I was just very lazy and that perhaps I wasn’t as good as I think I am. I was shattered. So upset. This was about a month or so ago. I have been refusing to see one ever since. My GP wants me to see a psychiatrist but now I’m frightened of such negative judgements, I’m refusing to go. Does Zoloft only work in conjunction with therapy? Hope to hear from you soon. Keep well and try to be happy. Sam

Response:

Hi everyone, Sam here again. I tried and tried to get myself through depression without drugs…but finally admitted defeat on Wednesday. I’m now taking Zoloft, 50mg for a week then up to 100mg. I’ve been rather alarmed at the negative response I’ve been reading online about the drug. I’m sure you’re all bored to tears by the topic, but could we please discuss Zoloft for my benefit??? I would really appreciate it *ingratiating smile* Thanks Sam

Sam, I was one of the people that was posting about negative side effects from Zoloft.  But, the side effects I was having (it gave me really bad agitation and anxiety and screwed up my thinking even more than it was screwed up from the depression alone), are actually very rare side-effects for Zoloft.  Many people have had good results from this drug, and it’s actually one of the drugs that causes the least amount of side effects in most people.  So, I would try it, and see if it works for YOU.  If it doesn’t, you can always try something else.  Good luck! persephone — "It

Question:

Struggling to survive <OnTheRebo…@home.net

wrote in message

news:7__U3.48644$23.1836784@typ11.nn.bcandid.com… | it’s been really hard these 15 years pretending | everything is ok when my kids couldn’t have things other kids had while my | ex lived a lavish lifestyle.  So there’s been many times when she | disappointed the kids not even sending a birthday card that I wished I had | done an O. J. on her the night I watched through the window her screwing my | "friend" | | do you think I’m bitter?  Lol | ok ladies let the flames begin ) No flames from me.  I think you have done a great job… #1. for letting her live and #2. for raising your children in a stable home.  I applaud you for that. Bitter? You?  nah!  :o)  LOL Tee

Response:

In article <7__U3.48644$23.1836…@typ11.nn.bcandid.com

, "Struggling to

survive" <OnTheRebo…@home.net

wrote:

|  I on the other hand I’m a guy and we don’t get things like child custody | and child support much less alimony. Well, I’m a guy too… With my lawyer on a carefully managed leash, I counter sued for divorce. As I could substanciate my claims much better than she could, my case made it. When this became evident, suddenly mediation became an option…  From her ‘take the kids, and everything’ start, we separated on joint custody, with the kids have a choice, if we lived far appart; and the person without the kids having to provide (minor) financial support for the kids. When I moved from Manitoba to BC, all three of my kids chose to come with me. I raised them, essentially by myself, for the next 6 years (until they were ready to be on their own). YMMV — Take care James (#11)

Response:

On 06 Nov 1999 17:04:08 GMT, kamatth…@aol.com (Kathi Matthews) wrote:

And he said this with a straight face? Kathi

Not only said it, but had his lawyer write it down.  At that time in Pennsylvania, there was no "no fault" divorce.  Somebody had to be to blame, and it turned out to be me. Being a sort of mild-mannered lady, hayfever was about the worst of the sins he could come up with. Kate

Response:

Hello ’struggling to survive’.  You won’t be getting any flames from me. It’s good to hear your story so the men with MS going through a divorce can see what might be coming at them down the road.  You are one strong person! Lorraine Reed. Struggling to survive <OnTheRebo…@home.net

wrote in message

news:7__U3.48644$23.1836784@typ11.nn.bcandid.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

So there’s been many times when she disappointed the kids not even sending a birthday card that I wished I had done an O. J. on her the night I watched through the window her screwing

my

"friend" do you think I’m bitter?  Lol ok ladies let the flames begin )

Response:

Paul, It is very likely that the extreme fatigue and the unusual need for sleep is related to stress. You have been under terrible stress for several months now, with no letup. The lawyer seems like a jerk, but you do have to look after your own interests. Gaylan Paul Jones <Paul_Jo…@btinternet.com

wrote in message

news:38236527.82029857@btinternet.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Went to my GP this morning to get a repeat perscription for the sertraline (Zoloft) and talked about the fatigue and MS etc. He reckons I might have a thyroid problem to boot I hope not or do I? I guess I could just take some thyroxin and all this godamn tiredness would go away. That does it, I’m going to get out my spirit level and check my bed – I suspect that it must be perfectly horizontal Still three autoimmune diseases does seem a bit bloody rotten luck especially since I’m a bloke and they are rarer for us than for gals. 15 months ago I thought I was a perfect specimen of health. Oh well, it could be worse – I know some of you have more than this and worse ones as well. Blessings 1 – Curses 999. The nurse took 15 million little phials of blood and I’m a complete baby. Had a ‘flu jab as well. Bet I get a relapse from that – things just aren’t smiling at me right now. Next I went to my lawyer. No wonder so many people wind up in bitter divorce battles. The guy was so adversarial. He said (with relish) that this case was no ordinary divorce and he could stack up the MS as a good weapon and was just itching to tear up the pre-nuptual <sp? that muggins signed a couple of days before the knot was tied. He said it had no meaning in an English court and we could start to tear into all my wife’s assets in Spain. It made me quite sick. I’m a daft bugger but I refuse to descend to this level. I knew what I was signing, so I shall honour it. I see him getting me

Question:

Twice a day won’t work with Neurontin unless you are worried about seizures. It wears off! If you can’t do at least 3x a day I am afraid you may be wasting your money. On 4x a day maybe you could take less. I don’t think Wellbutrin is the AD for you. I suggest something in the Celexa line, or if you could use help getting to sleep, Remeron. Just have your pharmacist give me a call. Keith – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Do you think going higher in dosage would help?  James suggests taking it every 6 hours would help.  I have a hard enough time remembering it twice a day.  At work it is chaos at times and remembering to take the medication would be very difficult.  So far I see no adverse reactions.  I can go higher.  It is costing me 300 a month but I would pay 500 or even 1000 dollars a month if I could enjoy life on a daily basis.  It took away my high highs… now I am left with really some bad bad lows.  But I do cycle out for a few short hours… but mornings are hell.  I take the meds at noon and in the evening.  That isn’t spaced out right though.  Should take the evening dose later but the morning dose wears off.  I don’t know if raising the wellbutrin would help.  Maybe I need to ask for Lamictal.  So tired of this.  Life was so much easier years ago.

Response:

Do you think going higher in dosage would help?  James suggests taking it every 6 hours would help.  I have a hard enough time remembering it twice a day.  At work it is chaos at times and remembering to take the medication would be very difficult.  So far I see no adverse reactions.  I can go higher.  It is costing me 300 a month but I would pay 500 or even 1000 dollars a month if I could enjoy life on a daily basis.  It took away my high highs… now I am left with really some bad bad lows.  But I do cycle out for a few short hours… but mornings are hell.  I take the meds at noon and in the evening.  That isn’t spaced out right though.  Should take the evening dose later but the morning dose wears off.  I don’t know if raising the wellbutrin would help.  Maybe I need to ask for Lamictal.  So tired of this.  Life was so much easier years ago. —   O  ooo   Cindy          O – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am on 2400mg and still cycle….I just have lower lows and lower highs. I don’t feel clearer in thinking…but compared to lithium..whew!  This is MUCH better.  Just wish it would help more with the depressions. There appears to be no known therapeutic blood serum level for gabapentin used in bipolar. Each person will need a different amount. You could go as high as your doctor would allow, but money would be a limiting factor.

Response:

I am on 2400mg and still cycle….I just have lower lows and lower highs.  I don’t feel clearer in thinking…but compared to lithium..whew!  This is MUCH better.  Just wish it would help more with the depressions.

There appears to be no known therapeutic blood serum level for gabapentin used in bipolar. Each person will need a different amount. You could go as high as your doctor would allow, but money would be a limiting factor.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 4800mg is considered high, and the therapeutic range seems to span all dosages, at least for bipolar. Greetings everybody, I have rapid cyclings with sometimes mixed states. I never had any manic episode. I never took any mood stabilizer in my life. I’ve been taking antidepressants and anxiolytics for 10 years now with moderate results. And i lost so many jobs… So Neurontin is my first mood stabilizer. I’ve been taking Neurontin (100 mg x 4 per day) for 2 weeks now. I also take Effexor XR 150 mg per day. My mood is better. I’m not anymore angry and the anxiety is almost gone. My concentration is improved too. It’s great. I’m starting again to live after a long nightmare. However, i still have sometimes cyclings even if they are more rare and lower in intensity. What is the therapeutic range of Neurontin? I want to feel fine but to be honest i’m afraid to be *zombified* by a too much high dose of Neurontin. Suggestions? Thanks in advance. Eric

Eric when I was on this drug, which was way back when it first came out on the market.  I was one of the test people for the drug.  I took 3600mgs. So higher doseages can be tolerated for this drug.  I was on it at least 3 different times for different reasons.  I was taken off 2 times and put back on it 2 other times to make it a total of 3 times.  The other mood stabilizer I was on it with I think was either Depakote or Lithium.  I am almost quite sure it was Depakote.   Betsy

Response:

I am on 2400mg and still cycle….I just have lower lows and lower highs.  I don’t feel clearer in thinking…but compared to lithium..whew!  This is MUCH better.  Just wish it would help more with the depressions. —   O  ooo   Cindy          O – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Neurontin has been extremely helpful to me as an anti-depressant, mood stabilizer for me recently. I am a manic depressive. I’m nearly certain that the therapeutic range is about 400 to 2500 mgs. I am taking 2000mgs or just simply 2gs. By the way, I don’t feel "zombefied". On the contrary I feel very alert and relatively up. Good luck Ephriam Greetings everybody, I have rapid cyclings with sometimes mixed states. I never had any manic episode. I never took any mood stabilizer in my life. I’ve been taking antidepressants and anxiolytics for 10 years now with moderate results. And i lost so many jobs… So Neurontin is my first mood stabilizer. I’ve been taking Neurontin (100 mg x 4 per day) for 2 weeks now. I also take Effexor XR 150 mg per day. My mood is better. I’m not anymore angry and the anxiety is almost gone. My concentration is improved too. It’s great. I’m starting again to live after a long nightmare. However, i still have sometimes cyclings even if they are more rare and lower in intensity. What is the therapeutic range of Neurontin? I want to feel fine but to be honest i’m afraid to be *zombified* by a too much high dose of Neurontin. Suggestions? Thanks in advance. Eric

Response:

Which mood stabizer did you use along with neurontin? —   O  ooo   Cindy          O – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Greetings everybody, I have rapid cyclings with sometimes mixed states. I never had any manic episode. I never took any mood stabilizer in my life. I’ve been taking antidepressants and anxiolytics for 10 years now with moderate results. And i lost so many jobs… So Neurontin is my first mood stabilizer. I’ve been taking Neurontin (100 mg x 4 per day) for 2 weeks now. I also take Effexor XR 150 mg per day. My mood is better. I’m not anymore angry and the anxiety is almost gone. My concentration is improved too. It’s great. I’m starting again to live after a long nightmare. However, i still have sometimes cyclings even if they are more rare and lower in intensity. What is the therapeutic range of Neurontin? I want to feel fine but to be honest i’m afraid to be *zombified* by a too much high dose of Neurontin. Suggestions? You can use more than one mood stabilizer. Neurontin should be taken every six hours.  A good therapeutic dose for me was 300 mgs 4 x per day until I added another mood stabilizer.  Once I had polytherapy I was able to lower my dose of Neurontin to 600 to 900 mgs per day. Good luck to you. Julie Thanks in advance. Eric

Response:

Do i still have to take Neurontin 4 times a day if i increase the dosage from 400 to 600 or even 800 mg? What are the side effects of Neurontin at this dosage? Thanks.

Eric: The Neurontin is excreted every six hours.  Eight if you have a slow renal excretion rate. The six hours apart is crucial if it is your only mood stabilizer.  Even if you have increased the dosage. I learned that the hard way and ended up ultra rapidly cycling till I joined the ranks of the James Milton Philosophy It had it’s drawbacks, like setting my alarm for three am just to take a pill.  I did get used to it and it was effective.  I also got tired of it and now take 2 mood stabilizers and only take Neurontin 2x per day. Good Luck! Julie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Eric

Response:

4800mg is considered high, and the therapeutic range seems to span all dosages, at least for bipolar. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Greetings everybody, I have rapid cyclings with sometimes mixed states. I never had any manic episode. I never took any mood stabilizer in my life. I’ve been taking antidepressants and anxiolytics for 10 years now with moderate results. And i lost so many jobs… So Neurontin is my first mood stabilizer. I’ve been taking Neurontin (100 mg x 4 per day) for 2 weeks now. I also take Effexor XR 150 mg per day. My mood is better. I’m not anymore angry and the anxiety is almost gone. My concentration is improved too. It’s great. I’m starting again to live after a long nightmare. However, i still have sometimes cyclings even if they are more rare and lower in intensity. What is the therapeutic range of Neurontin? I want to feel fine but to be honest i’m afraid to be *zombified* by a too much high dose of Neurontin. Suggestions? Thanks in advance. Eric

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Greetings everybody, I have rapid cyclings with sometimes mixed states. I never had any manic episode. I never took any mood stabilizer in my life. I’ve been taking antidepressants and anxiolytics for 10 years now with moderate results. And i lost so many jobs… So Neurontin is my first mood stabilizer. I’ve been taking Neurontin (100 mg x 4 per day) for 2 weeks now. I also take Effexor XR 150 mg per day. My mood is better. I’m not anymore angry and the anxiety is almost gone. My concentration is improved too. It’s great. I’m starting again to live after a long nightmare. However, i still have sometimes cyclings even if they are more rare and lower in intensity. What is the therapeutic range of Neurontin? I want to feel fine but to be honest i’m afraid to be *zombified* by a too much high dose of Neurontin. Suggestions?

You can use more than one mood stabilizer. Neurontin should be taken every six hours.  A good therapeutic dose for me was 300 mgs 4 x per day until I added another mood stabilizer.  Once I had polytherapy I was able to lower my dose of Neurontin to 600 to 900 mgs per day. Good luck to you. Julie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks in advance. Eric

Response:

Neurontin has been extremely helpful to me as an anti-depressant, mood stabilizer for me recently. I am a manic depressive. I’m nearly certain that the therapeutic range is about 400 to 2500 mgs. I am taking 2000mgs or just simply 2gs. By the way, I don’t feel "zombefied". On the contrary I feel very alert and relatively up. Good luck Ephriam

Do i still have to take Neurontin 4 times a day if i increase the dosage from 400 to 600 or even 800 mg? What are the side effects of Neurontin at this dosage? Thanks. Eric

Response:

Greetings everybody, I have rapid cyclings with sometimes mixed states. I never had any manic episode. I never took any mood stabilizer in my life. I’ve been taking antidepressants and anxiolytics for 10 years now with moderate results. And i lost so many jobs… So Neurontin is my first mood stabilizer. I’ve been taking Neurontin (100 mg x 4 per day) for 2 weeks now. I also take Effexor XR 150 mg per day. My mood is better. I’m not anymore angry and the anxiety is almost gone. My concentration is improved too. It’s great. I’m starting again to live after a long nightmare. However, i still have sometimes cyclings even if they are more rare and lower in intensity. What is the therapeutic range of Neurontin? I want to feel fine but to be honest i’m afraid to be *zombified* by a too much high dose of Neurontin. Suggestions? Thanks in advance. Eric

Response:

Neurontin has been extremely helpful to me as an anti-depressant, mood stabilizer for me recently. I am a manic depressive. I’m nearly certain that the therapeutic range is about 400 to 2500 mgs. I am taking 2000mgs or just simply 2gs. By the way, I don’t feel "zombefied". On the contrary I feel very alert and relatively up. Good luck Ephriam – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Greetings everybody, I have rapid cyclings with sometimes mixed states. I never had any manic episode. I never took any mood stabilizer in my life. I’ve been taking antidepressants and anxiolytics for 10 years now with moderate results. And i lost so many jobs… So Neurontin is my first mood stabilizer. I’ve been taking Neurontin (100 mg x 4 per day) for 2 weeks now. I also take Effexor XR 150 mg per day. My mood is better. I’m not anymore angry and the anxiety is almost gone. My concentration is improved too. It’s great. I’m starting again to live after a long nightmare. However, i still have sometimes cyclings even if they are more rare and lower in intensity. What is the therapeutic range of Neurontin? I want to feel fine but to be honest i’m afraid to be *zombified* by a too much high dose of Neurontin. Suggestions? Thanks in advance. Eric

Response: