Question:

What are your thoughts on very dry skin, crack on fingers and heels, very dry scalp. Bruising easily.  ON Flovent 110, Atrovent, Serevent and Proventil as needed. Also Claritan D.  Am feeling much better and will soon decrease to eventual ceasing of Atrovent.   Thank you for your help. jane

Response:

What are your thoughts on very dry skin, crack on fingers and heels, very dry scalp. Bruising easily.  ON Flovent 110, Atrovent, Serevent and Proventil as needed. Also Claritan D…..

my skin still seems okay but my finger nails are very dry and brittle. I don’t think it is the meds. The decongestant in claritin may be dehydrating you a bit though – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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If you are able to use the MDI with spacer well then the neb machines are just a hassle, expense, and source of infection.

Source of infection…???  Please elaborate.

Response:

If they are not well maintained some can harbor molds. If you are allergic to them it can be a problem. It was probably a little inaccurate of me to imply that you will get an actual lung infection as I don’t think this is common. Forgive me it was late. — Good Luck, CBI, M.D. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you are able to use the MDI with spacer well then the neb machines are just a hassle, expense, and source of infection. Source of infection…???  Please elaborate.

Response:

If I read your post right I think you are asking what a nebulizer is and if you may benefit from it. If not …. Sorry. A nebulizer is a machine that takes the medicine and makes a mist out of it. It takes about 10 minutes to take a single treatment. The "nebs" do deliver more drug to the lower respiratory tree (lungs). The question is; does this make a difference, or ; do you need the extra amount of drug. The answer is probably not. Studies that looked at relative dose have found that 2.5 mg of albuterol nebulized is about equal to ten puffs of the MDI with spacer. Studies looking at effect and outcome find three or four puffs with spacer to be equally effective as nebs. I put this apparent discrepancy together by theorizing that the extra drug above four puffs doesn’t add much. If you are able to use the MDI with spacer well then the neb machines are just a hassle, expense, and source of infection. People in extreme distress cannot use the MDI well and need a neb. — Good Luck, CBI, M.D.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I take Flovent 110, two puffs twice a day.  That usually controls my symptons. I also take allergy shots.  When my asathma  acts up, I also take an inhaled albuterol.  In the past the doctor has prescribed a couple of prednisone bursts when that did not work, and that brought everything under control.  Not real frequent — my last burst was 14 months ago.  Should I be using a nebulizer when the inhaled meds don’t seem to knock it out?  What exactly is a nebulizer and what are the pros and cons.  In the past my asthma seems to have been triggered by cold or flu viruses or cold temperatures, but I think this spring I am getting my first allergy one — everything is blooming here in Iowa, the spring flowers are glorious,  the flowering trees are glorious and the air is full of pollen.  Any thoughts or comments?  I will see my allergist shortly — he left town for two weeks. Kathy from Iowa

Response:

To my doctor the cons of having an at home nebulizer outway the pros.  Using a nebulizer gives you the same medication as an inhaled albuterol inhaler.  This is the same medicne that they usually give me when I need to visit the ER.  The thing about using albuterol in high doses is that it really speeds up your heart rate, something that you might want monitered by the ER staff.  Seccondly at the ER they add extra oxygen to their nebulizers.  This may not help your astma symptoms much, but it is really nice to get some oxygen after having an 80% blood oxygen level when you come in the door.  The third advantage of going to the ER instead of having an at home nebulizer is that in the ER they can give you intravenus steroids.  Although I hate to get them because of the side effects, this works a lot faster than calling your doctor and having him prescribe you a prednisone burst. To me going to the ER at 3:00 in the morning is a real pain.  I live 11 miles from the hospital, which is about a 25 minute drive.  Once you get there they treat you like an idoit, make you put on a gown, start drawing blood, and then after they hook you up to a blood oxygen monitor finaly realize that you are having a severe astma attack start giving you nebulizer treatments.   All of this is annoying, but  when my breathing is so bad that my albuterol inhaler isn’t working I am glad to have the doctors close at hand.

Response:

I take Flovent 110, two puffs twice a day.  That usually controls my symptons. I also take allergy shots.  When my asathma  acts up, I also take an inhaled albuterol.  In the past the doctor has prescribed a couple of prednisone bursts when that did not work, and that brought everything under control.  Not real frequent — my last burst was 14 months ago.  Should I be using a nebulizer when the inhaled meds don’t seem to knock it out?  What exactly is a nebulizer and what are the pros and cons.  In the past my asthma seems to have been triggered by cold or flu viruses or cold temperatures, but I think this spring I am getting my first allergy one — everything is blooming here in Iowa, the spring flowers are glorious,  the flowering trees are glorious and the air is full of pollen.  Any thoughts or comments?  I will see my allergist shortly — he left town for two weeks. Kathy from Iowa

Response:

I take Flovent 110, two puffs twice a day.  That usually controls my symptons. I also take allergy shots.  When my asathma  acts up, I also take an inhaled albuterol.  In the past the doctor has prescribed a couple of prednisone bursts when that did not work, and that brought everything under control.  Not real frequent — my last burst was 14 months ago.  Should I be using a nebulizer when the inhaled meds don’t seem to knock it out?  What exactly is a nebulizer and what are the pros and cons.  In the past my asthma seems to have been triggered by cold or flu viruses or cold temperatures, but I think this spring I am getting my first allergy one — everything is blooming here in Iowa, the spring flowers are glorious,  the flowering trees are glorious and the air is full of pollen.  Any thoughts or comments?  I will see my allergist shortly — he left town for two weeks.

What you and your doctor need to do is sit down and work out a detailed treatment plan on when and how to use your rescue medications, when to call the ER, etc.  This is often tied to a PFM, with certain actions being taken when your flows drop below certain levels. Chris Owens

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I take Flovent 110, two puffs twice a day.  That usually controls my symptons. I also take allergy shots.  When my asathma  acts up, I also take an inhaled albuterol.  In the past the doctor has prescribed a couple of prednisone bursts when that did not work, and that brought everything under control.  Not real frequent — my last burst was 14 months ago.  Should I be using a nebulizer when the inhaled meds don’t seem to knock it out?  What exactly is a nebulizer and what are the pros and cons.  In the past my asthma seems to have been triggered by cold or flu viruses or cold temperatures, but I think this spring I am getting my first allergy one — everything is blooming here in Iowa, the spring flowers are glorious,  the flowering trees are glorious and the air is full of pollen.  Any thoughts or comments?  I will see my allergist shortly — he left town for two weeks. Kathy from Iowa

Hi Kathy, My family , all of us have asthma. My husband has had it all his life, but when he was younger they called it everything but asthma. My son has had asthma since he was 2. I was diagnosed last fall with asthma. We have a nebulizer and all of us have benefitted from it too. We also have a portable nebulizer that runs off a battery. We tend to use the nebulizer when we don’t seem to be getting much relief from the regular inhaler. If you use the nebulizer it delivers the medication to your lungs alot better than an inhaler will. Also we double the flovent and that sometimes helps. There are times when prednisone is also to be used. I would not be with out a nebulizer at all. My son does complain that it takes longer, but the benefits are worth it. Good luck. Susanne Loud

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Question:

The Advair is the combination of Flovent and Serevent. At first, I heard that it would be available at the end of this month. Now I hear that it won’t be out until the end of the year. The diskus is  a powdered form of the medicine. It is sort of like a pill on a holder.When you turn the container, the pill is punctured and then you inhale it. There is little or no taste and you can’t feel the powder going in. I am anxiously awaiting it’s arrival!

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Someone mentioned here that there was a single inhaler coming out at some point. (ComboFlovent, Serevent, I believe.) Just heard from a family member in Canada who had been put on "Advair 500" which I believe IS that combo.  Is that what will be marketed here? I’m not inclined to use it when it comes out since I feel as some do here, that there is a lack of flexibility in combing the two. But am curious — is that the same thing coming out here?  Thanks. (Instead of "inhaler" I believe it is "Diskus".  Would someone explain "diskus" for me. )

Response:

Someone mentioned here that there was a single inhaler coming out at some point. (ComboFlovent, Serevent, I believe.) Just heard from a family member in Canada who had been put on "Advair 500" which I believe IS that combo.  Is that what will be marketed here? I’m not inclined to use it when it comes out since I feel as some do here, that there is a lack of flexibility in combing the two. But am curious — is that the same thing coming out here?  Thanks. (Instead of "inhaler" I believe it is "Diskus".  Would someone explain "diskus" for me. )

Advair has been released in Canada and was recently approved by the  FDA and should be marketed soon in the US;  comes in 3 strengths of fluticasone with a fixed strength of Serevent. Normally used 1 pf twice/day. An advantage of this combo for a patient taking both drugs is it simplifies the drug administration. A disadvantage is during an exacerbation it may be advisable to increase the steroid dose; however the Serevent is already at the maximum [50ug x 2]; so steroid inhaler can’t be increased without switching to a stronger combination or separate Flovent inhaler. Link: http://www.pslgroup.com/dg/1de5c2.htm "RESEARCH TRIANGLE PARK, NC — August 25, 2000 — The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has approved the first and only asthma medication that simultaneously treats both of the underlying components of the disease: inflammation and bronchoconstriction. Advair Diskus will be available in three strengths: Advair Diskus 100/50, Advair Diskus 250/50 and Advair Diskus 500/50. Each contains 50mcg of salmeterol and either 100mcg, 250mcg or 500mcg of fluticasone propionate. powder)." A diskus is a DPI [dry powder inhaler]; no propellant used. Ellis

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Question:

Weel, the doctor’s second call yesterday was basically go see a doctor, whether it’s a normal doctor or an emergency room or whatever it takes.  So I went.  I got there about 7:45 pm, and left about 3:40 am.  That’s right, 8 hours.  One ambulance after another, and I kept getting bumped.  It’s kind of sad really,. I saw the triage number – I was a three.  A one is someone who is critical, 2, is less critical, 3 is moderate, 4 is cuts and bruises.  So I spent 45 minutes in a treatment room and 4 1/2 of those hours sitting on a gurney in the hallway, waiting for the doctor, or testing, or whatever.  Two breathing treatments, some blood tests, a chest x-ray, and a dose of pred. later, I finally went home.  I can actually breathe properly now, although my chest is still tight.  When I was in the ER, I was at that state where you can’t breathe with your diaphram, and you only breathe with your chest muscles.  I never realized how tiring that can be until last night. And now, I’m frustrated.  My pulmonologist said I had done everything right, and yet I still ended up in the ER.  If I had been home, it would have been an office visit, but still……I’m  on probably 3-5 times the medicine I was on last summer, and actually feel worse.  I was at the same peak flows last summer on 2 puffs of Vanceril twice a day.  Now I’m taking 2 puffs of Flovent 220 and 2-3 puffs of Serevent twice a day.  I have good relationships with both my pulmonologist and primary doctors, so when I tell them what’s going on we don’t have much discussion.  In fact, the ER doctor was thrilled to find out that I had my inhalers with me, had a prescription for prednisone, had a nebulizer, had a list of all my peak flows for the last year, and a written action plan.  When she started asking questions and I answered them all without too much effort, she said "you are probably the best thing to happen to me all night" – I knew what was going on, and that’s apparently a rare thing.  So what else is there? For someone who has it together, knows an adequate amount about their condition to be able to converse with a doctor about it, and knows what to do when, ending up getting sick over and over again is difficult to handle. janet

Response:

Weel, the doctor’s second call yesterday was basically go see a doctor, whether it’s a normal doctor or an emergency room or whatever it takes.  So I went.  I got there about 7:45 pm, and left about 3:40 am.  That’s right, 8 hours. One ambulance after another, and I kept getting bumped.  It’s kind of sad really,. I saw the triage number – I was a three.  A one is someone who is critical, 2, is less critical, 3 is moderate, 4 is cuts and bruises.  So I spent 45 minutes in a treatment room and 4 1/2 of those hours sitting on a gurney in the hallway, waiting for the doctor, or testing, or whatever.

I guess that it depends on what hospital you go to (and when).  When I last had to hit an ER I was literally disorentated by the speed which I was treated.  I had one nurse inserting an IV, another attaching the wires for the EKG, another checking my vitals (I knew I made the right decision when she reported: "Faint breath sounds left lung – no breath sounds right lung.") and the doctor hooking me up to oxygen.  (They also did a peakflow on me and I blew a 110 out of a personal best of 650). And now, I’m frustrated.  My pulmonologist said I had done everything right, and yet I still ended up in the ER.

It happens.  I caught a mild cold then was unexpecdly stuck outside on a cold windy day.  Sometimes we just get caught in a bad situation. rare thing.  So what else is there? For someone who has it together, knows an adequate amount about their condition to be able to converse with a doctor about it, and knows what to do when, ending up getting sick over and over again is difficult to handle.

We just do the best we can.  There are no easy answers and asthma can (and does) get better or worse for no easily discernable reason.

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Question:

Have you?  I mean, tried a tablespoon or 18 grams a day of inositol for anxiety (not bi-polar or depression).  Does it work?  Will less than 18g work?  The studies seem a bit dated and aren’t very plentiful. Figaro Yes. It works for me. Albeit, my panic attacks came on in middle age. The GP said I was a "classic case" I found it funny as I wasn’t anxious only uncomfortable.

Do you mean that yoou weren’t conscious of having anxiety, even outside of panic attacks?  That opens the question as to whether inositol would help people with GAD, or only PD, OCD and/or depression. I won’t expect a lot of studies. Myo-inositol is unpatentable; therefore, it can’t be a cash cow for some giant drug company.

Yes, I understand your point.  Our drug development system relies too much on capitalistic greed <g.  Still, most of the studies seemed to originate from Ben Gurion U and I didn’t see anything particularly recent.  Some of the European countries are more active in exploring non-pharmaceutical/herbal/dietary supplement types of treatments.  Would be nice to see something from one of those countries, Germany in particular. It works by restoring serotonin sensitivity in part though according to the following abstract this is not the complete story. PMID 11853115  Used to Tx OCD     date 2002

I couldn’t see anything in the abstract that speculated/concluded anything about "restoring serotonin sensitivity".  Do you have any other references I can check? Did that help?

Don’t know yet.  But it’s worth looking into somemore.  Thanks for the info. Figaro

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Have you?  I mean, tried a tablespoon or 18 grams a day of inositol for anxiety (not bi-polar or depression).  Does it work?  Will less than 18g work?  The studies seem a bit dated and aren’t very plentiful. Figaro Yes. It works for me. Albeit, my panic attacks came on in middle age. The GP said I was a "classic case" I found it funny as I wasn’t anxious only uncomfortable. Do you mean that you weren’t conscious of having anxiety, even outside of panic attacks?

Yes. That opens the question as to whether inositol would help people with GAD, or only PD, OCD and/or depression.

It may "only" be the latter. I’d sure try it for the former, if I could if I had the problem. I recall it having effects similar to a SSRI drug per what I’ve read. It also helps with binge eating and bulimia nervosa per our Israeli friends. I won’t expect a lot of studies. Myo-inositol is unpatentable; therefore, it can’t be a cash cow for some giant drug company. Yes, I understand your point.  Our drug development system relies too much on capitalistic greed <g.  Still, most of the studies seemed to originate from Ben Gurion U and I didn’t see anything particularly recent.  Some of the European countries are more active in exploring non-pharmaceutical/herbal/dietary supplement types of treatments.  Would be nice to see something from one of those countries, Germany in particular.

Given that it works for me, I’ll trust Ben Gurion University. The date of their work matches my definition of recent. There is some relatively recent work using a metabolite of myo-inositol called D-chiro-inositol that may "decrease insulin resistance and act to at least partially restore insulin sensitivity and glucose disposal." This is American research on diabetic rats, rhesus monkeys, and homo sapiens. PMID 11900279 I think this finding is suggestive. Anyway, it suggests the supra-nutritional levels of inositol has other applications. But here again this related compound seems to be enhancing the action of a receptor; albeit, not in the nervous system. It works by restoring serotonin sensitivity in part though according to the following abstract this is not the complete story. PMID 11853115  Used to Tx OCD     date 2002 I couldn’t see anything in the abstract that speculated/concluded anything about "restoring serotonin sensitivity".  Do you have any other references I can check?

I see that the abstract entitled in my computer as "mechanism" does not quite say that it "restores serotonin sensitivity". Still that is how I understand it. see PMID 11853115 This paper indicates that its actions are "downstream" of the receptor. It is entitled, "Defining the neuromolecular action of myo-inositol: application to OCD." by Harvey BH, Brink CB, Seedat S, Stein DJ. The paper is originates in South Africa and is a discussion of mechanism. Myo-inositol action is to increase the "message" resulting from the binding serotonin to its receptor, matches my definition for restoring serotonin sensitivity. Did that help? Don’t know yet.  But it’s worth looking into somemore.  Thanks for the info. Figaro

Fair enough.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Did you ever try a tablespoonful of inositol powder per day? Do a PUBMED search if you don’t believe me. Use search words "inositol", "panic", and "anxiety", Might help with the anxiety, however, inositol is a 2nd messenger (precursor) in cellular transmission.  Over excitation of this transmission process is primarily the most accepted theory of bipolar mania.  Lithium is thought to deplete the secondary messengers. Lithium is used in the treatment of bipolar.  Hummh? Anxiety or Mania? MP A valid point. I seem to recall posting a similar caveat some years ago somewhere on the Usenet. But just to keep it interesting, there is early experimental evidence that inositol supplementation may have role in "drug resistant" bipolar patients.  Here is a quote from an article off of www.medscape.com that reports a recent medical conference. " Andrew Nierenberg, MD, (15) of the Dept of Psycahiatry at Massachusetts General Hospital, reported a small 6-week placebo-controlled study using inositol, a natural substance involved in the phosphoinositide (PI) cycle. The PI cycle has long been implicated in the pathophysiology of BPAD and the mechanism of action of lithium. Inositol or matching placebo was given to 16 subjects with bipolar depression resistant to several weeks of treatment with therapeutic levels of litium or valproate. Although mania rating scales did not change significantly in either group, 33% of the inositol group met criteria for response vs none of the placebo group. Of interest, inositol is being evaluated in a randomized placebo-controlled fashoin in the STEP-BD study, so larger scale data on this interesting option are forthcoming." STEP-BD study  = Systematic Treatment Enhancement Program for BPAD BPAD  = Bipolar affective disorder BP =  Bipolar disorder William A. Noyes Very interesting research.  I will definitely review the article(s) that hopefully will be published from this research.  My curiousity is what happens to persons who are otherwise normal who would take inositol as a supplement.  Haven’t taken the time to review any research on inositol as an adjunt or treatment.  Just am familiar with the mechanisms of it and its possible role in mania. MP

In normals person, it will have no effect on mental function, consciousness, etc. It also is said to have antioxidant and antigylcating properties.

Response:

Did you ever try a tablespoonful of inositol powder per day? Do a PUBMED search if you don’t believe me. Use search words "inositol", "panic", and "anxiety", Have you?  I mean, tried a tablespoon or 18 grams a day of inositol for anxiety (not bi-polar or depression).  Does it work?  Will less than 18g work?  The studies seem a bit dated and aren’t very plentiful. Figaro

Yes. It works for me. Albeit, my panic attacks came on in middle age. The GP said I was a "classic case" I found it funny as I wasn’t anxious only uncomfortable. I felt as if short of breath but not, the pulse rate was elevated, and had a desire for cool outdoor air. So I found myself sitting out on the porch in the middle of the night. I was fortunate as I knew what was going on from the start …….even before I talked to GP. He said it was all in my head. Gee thanks…I thought. No help there.  Fortunately, I had heard of inositol And yes, a lower dose of a heaping teaspoonful  (6 grams ?) serves as an effective maintenance dose for me. But doses at the 1 or 2 gram levels don’t help. I won’t expect a lot of studies. Myo-inositol is unpatentable; therefore, it can’t be a cash cow for some giant drug company. It works by restoring serotonin sensitivity in part though according to the following abstract this is not the complete story. PMID 11853115  Used to Tx OCD     date 2002 Inositol has antioxidant and antiglycating properties. And seems to have anticancer properties by way of boosting natural killer T-lymphocytes. Inositol up because it works for me, because it is vastly safer than the meds. I am not saying it will work for everyone but it seems like it should a first line Tx for panic attacks and OCD. It use in pregnant women is controversial as it is alleged to tend to induce uterine contractions. PMID 9855568 — Review of Uses — not a mainstream journal Still this part of the population would seem also to a target of inositol supplementation as it be used to prevent some neural tube defects in neonates. PMID 12542915 —  date 2003 I’ve taken inositol for some years, now. Off and on at the start. Now regularly at the lower dose. I haven’t had a full-blown panic attack since the late 90’s. I bump the dose up, if I feel like one is possible. Did that help? YMMV .

Response:

Did you ever try a tablespoonful of inositol powder per day? Do a PUBMED search if you don’t believe me. Use search words "inositol", "panic", and "anxiety",

Have you?  I mean, tried a tablespoon or 18 grams a day of inositol for anxiety (not bi-polar or depression).  Does it work?  Will less than 18g work?  The studies seem a bit dated and aren’t very plentiful. Figaro

Response:

Did you ever try a tablespoonful of inositol powder per day? Do a PUBMED search if you don’t believe me. Use search words "inositol", "panic", and "anxiety", Might help with the anxiety, however, inositol is a 2nd messenger (precursor) in cellular transmission.  Over excitation of this transmission process is primarily the most accepted theory of bipolar mania.  Lithium is thought to deplete the secondary messengers. Lithium is used in the treatment of bipolar.  Hummh? Anxiety or Mania? MP

A valid point. I seem to recall posting a similar caveat some years ago somewhere on the Usenet. But just to keep it interesting, there is early experimental evidence that inositol supplementation may have role in "drug resistant" bipolar patients.  Here is a quote from an article off of www.medscape.com that reports a recent medical conference. " Andrew Nierenberg, MD, (15) of the Dept of Psycahiatry at Massachusetts General Hospital, reported a small 6-week placebo-controlled study using inositol, a natural substance involved in the phosphoinositide (PI) cycle. The PI cycle has long been implicated in the pathophysiology of BPAD and the mechanism of action of lithium. Inositol or matching placebo was given to 16 subjects with bipolar depression resistant to several weeks of treatment with therapeutic levels of litium or valproate. Although mania rating scales did not change significantly in either group, 33% of the inositol group met criteria for response vs none of the placebo group. Of interest, inositol is being evaluated in a randomized placebo-controlled fashoin in the STEP-BD study, so larger scale data on this interesting option are forthcoming." STEP-BD study  = Systematic Treatment Enhancement Program for BPAD BPAD  = Bipolar affective disorder BP =  Bipolar disorder William A. Noyes

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Did you ever try a tablespoonful of inositol powder per day? Do a PUBMED search if you don’t believe me. Use search words "inositol", "panic", and "anxiety", Might help with the anxiety, however, inositol is a 2nd messenger (precursor) in cellular transmission.  Over excitation of this transmission process is primarily the most accepted theory of bipolar mania.  Lithium is thought to deplete the secondary messengers. Lithium is used in the treatment of bipolar.  Hummh? Anxiety or Mania? MP A valid point. I seem to recall posting a similar caveat some years ago somewhere on the Usenet. But just to keep it interesting, there is early experimental evidence that inositol supplementation may have role in "drug resistant" bipolar patients.  Here is a quote from an article off of www.medscape.com that reports a recent medical conference. " Andrew Nierenberg, MD, (15) of the Dept of Psycahiatry at Massachusetts General Hospital, reported a small 6-week placebo-controlled study using inositol, a natural substance involved in the phosphoinositide (PI) cycle. The PI cycle has long been implicated in the pathophysiology of BPAD and the mechanism of action of lithium. Inositol or matching placebo was given to 16 subjects with bipolar depression resistant to several weeks of treatment with therapeutic levels of litium or valproate. Although mania rating scales did not change significantly in either group, 33% of the inositol group met criteria for response vs none of the placebo group. Of interest, inositol is being evaluated in a randomized placebo-controlled fashoin in the STEP-BD study, so larger scale data on this interesting option are forthcoming." STEP-BD study  = Systematic Treatment Enhancement Program for BPAD BPAD  = Bipolar affective disorder BP =  Bipolar disorder William A. Noyes

Very interesting research.  I will definitely review the article(s) that hopefully will be published from this research.  My curiousity is what happens to persons who are otherwise normal who would take inositol as a supplement.  Haven’t taken the time to review any research on inositol as an adjunt or treatment.  Just am familiar with the mechanisms of it and its possible role in mania. MP

Response:

Did you ever try a tablespoonful of inositol powder per day? Do a PUBMED search if you don’t believe me. Use search words "inositol", "panic", and "anxiety",

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello everyone, I posted here a few weeks ago about being prescribed seroquel for GAD/panic.  I really appreciated the feedback, and I don’t want to go on that med. I was on rivotril for years and years, until I started to have some memory problems.  After discussion with my P, I weaned myself off.  I have been med-free for three months, but I really can’t live this way…despite using the CBT techniques as best I can.  SO, my shrink first prescribed celexa….and I HATED it.   So that was where the seroquel came in next. I will be seeing my P next week, and I wanted to have some suggestions for other options.  I am really not interested in SSRI’s, although I know they are the first line.  I HATE their sexual side effects, the feeling I am emotionally flat, and bodily electrified.  So I would like to find something else.  What about buspirone?  What about remeron?  If not these drugs, any other suggestions? Thanks loads! Ron

Response:

Did you ever try a tablespoonful of inositol powder per day? Do a PUBMED search if you don’t believe me. Use search words "inositol", "panic", and "anxiety",

Might help with the anxiety, however, inositol is a 2nd messenger (precursor) in cellular transmission.  Over excitation of this transmission process is primarily the most accepted theory of bipolar mania.  Lithium is thought to deplete the secondary messengers. Lithium is used in the treatment of bipolar.  Hummh? Anxiety or Mania? MP

Response:

Hello everyone, I posted here a few weeks ago about being prescribed seroquel for GAD/panic.  I really appreciated the feedback, and I don’t want to go on that med. I was on rivotril for years and years, until I started to have some memory problems.  After discussion with my P, I weaned myself off.  I have been med-free for three months, but I really can’t live this way…despite using the CBT techniques as best I can.  SO, my shrink first prescribed celexa….and I HATED it.   So that was where the seroquel came in next. I will be seeing my P next week, and I wanted to have some suggestions for other options.  I am really not interested in SSRI’s, although I know they are the first line.  I HATE their sexual side effects, the feeling I am emotionally flat, and bodily electrified.  So I would like to find something else.  What about buspirone?  What about remeron?  If not these drugs, any other suggestions? Thanks loads! Ron

Response:

They say Zoloft helps anxiety, I take it more for depression, but I think it’s helped for both, how about that?  What really really helps me is Xanax. I would not have gotten as far as I have with anxiety relief without it.  I also take BuSpar, but I don’t know how well it works… I’m not sure if it is that that is helping, or the Zoloft, so…I don’t know. Good Luck, Robin

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello everyone, I posted here a few weeks ago about being prescribed seroquel for GAD/panic.  I really appreciated the feedback, and I don’t want to go on that med. I was on rivotril for years and years, until I started to have some memory problems.  After discussion with my P, I weaned myself off.  I have been med-free for three months, but I really can’t live this way…despite using the CBT techniques as best I can.  SO, my shrink first prescribed celexa….and I HATED it.   So that was where the seroquel came in next. I will be seeing my P next week, and I wanted to have some suggestions for other options.  I am really not interested in SSRI’s, although I know they are the first line.  I HATE their sexual side effects, the feeling I am emotionally flat, and bodily electrified.  So I would like to find something else.  What about buspirone?  What about remeron?  If not these drugs, any other suggestions? Thanks loads! Ron

Response:

4ax.com:  What about remeron?  If not these drugs, any other suggestions?

I’m taking remeron (aka avanza in Australia), and apparently its meant to be a good all round drug for depression and anxiety. BUT, in my experience while it has lifted my depression, it hasn’t done much for my anxiety – though now I’m on valium to help manage that. On the upside, it helps with sleeping (becareful with your first couple of doses, as it will knock you flat on your back..with my first dose, I slept for 14 + hours, and that was half a tablet heh). It doesn’t have the sexual side effects of SSRI’s. I don’t know if it is just me, but it seemed to work alot quicker than the SSRI’s I’ve been on (Ciprimil, Luvox, Prozac and Zoloft). I also don’t have the depersonalisation that I experienced while on SSRI’s. On the downside, it will probably make you put on weight (I put on about 5- 10kgs, but I’ve read reports of alot higher weight gains), Until your body gets used to it, you’ll probably sleep alot . And, because its eliminated from the body relatively quickly, if you skip one dose, you might start to feel some withdrawal effects. Of course, this is just my experience with it, and you might respond completely differently.

Response:

What about buspirone?  What about remeron?  If not these drugs, any other suggestions?

When you are making selections on what medication to choose, there are a few things that you should take into consideration.  Symptoms, age, past treatment response, family history of response, side effects, and drug interactions to name a few.  If anyone in your family, maybe a father or mother has taken medication for a similar condition, it may just as well work for you.  If you are older (elderly), you may want to avoid the tricyclic’s (TCA’s) due to their side effect profile.  It sounds like you’re main concern is regarding side effects, so I will list some other medications and their possible side effects for you. You mentioned you didn’t want to take SSRI’s, which are 1st line in the long term therapy of GAD, but there are others. Alternatives: Some nonpharmacologic modalities include avoiding caffeine, stimulants, diet pills, and getting plenty of execise (these choices are "on top of"). Benzodiazepines (BZD’s) are the most effective and safe med’s used to treat acute anxiety symptoms in GAD.  The dose is individualized, and duration of therapy usually should not exceed 4-6 months, but some patients require longer treatment.  They are usually used in addition to other medications if needed to treat anxiety. Bupropion (Wellbutrin) is a dopamine/norepi reuptake inhibitor, has a low drug interaction profile, is more activating, and has LESS SEXUAL side effects than others.  It may however potentiate the anxiety symptoms, but that is usually dose dependent. It is not indicated for GAD, but it should help with any depression, however it will not do anything for the anxiety.  A concomitant BZD may help to treat the anxiety. Venlafaxine (Effexor) is a dual serotonin/norepi reuptake inhibitor. It has a low drug interaction profile.  It does have the potential to mild or moderately increase HR/blood pressure at higher doses (225 mg/d) which is attributable to its norepi reuptake inhibition. Mirtazapine (Remeron) can be sedating at low doses (has histamine activity) but at higher doses it can over-ride that effect.  It is good for patients that exhibit anxiety and depression, but it does have the potential for more weight gain than others.  It may be advantagous to patients who can tolerate its sedative effects and who do not respond well to SSRIs or cannot tolerate the sexual or other adverse effects of the other AD’s. Busiprirone has efficacy equal to BZD’s, but lack the muscle relaxant, sedative-hypnotic, motor impairment, and dependence properties.  It should help with the anxiety.  The anxiolytic effects may take more than a week to become established, which make it suitable for generalized anxiety states.  It is not very effective in panic disorders.  It is generally reserved for patients who are nonresponsive to other medications. Tricyclics can be used also.  They have equivalent efficacy to the SSRI’s.  However, the most significant advantage of SSRIs over TCAs is a more favorable side effect profile.  There is a dose related sedative effect, they can have a "quinidine-like" effect in that they can cause hypotension (low blood pressure), and anticholinergic effects (dry mouth, difficulty urinating, blurred vision).  The secondary amines have less sedating effects such as desipramine and nortriptyline. Atypical antidepressants such as trazodone or nefazodone (Serzone) can be used.  Nefazodone has LESS SEXUAL side effects than SSRIs.  IMHO, nefazodone may want to be avoided due to its "black box warning." These both can cause some sedation (nefazodone less than trazodone) and they do have a bad drug interaction profile (nefazodone-inhibition of CYP 3A4). In the treatment of mixed anxiety and depression, this is the relative ranking of drugs healthcare professionals use when making a choice (depends on doc and part of the world you come from): 1) SSRI’s 2) Venlafaxine (Effexor)- need to monitor for blood pressure 3) Nortriptyline (Pamelor)- monitor for ECG changes and hypotension 4) Nefazadone (Serzone)- monitor for drug interactions and hypotension 5) Mirtazapine (Remeron)- monitor for weight gain and hypo/hypertension These suggestions are based on treatments used here in the states and may be different elsewhere.  Hope this information helps. MP PharmD 2006

Response:

Question:

I am on a clinical study and just found out that I have been taking exemestane for the last year instead of tamoxfin. I was sure I was taking Tamoxfin. I had hot flashes so bad I thought that you could time them like labor pains. They told me that the pills are really expensive and that they will pay for them for the next 4 years. The Dr.s upped the effexor to 150 mg and now I only have 5-8 hot flashes a day. I do have 2 bone density test a year. dx 8/02  lumpectomy 9/03 chemo and rads. Nancy

Response:

I am on a clinical study and just found out that I have been taking exemestane for the last year instead of tamoxfin. I was sure I was taking Tamoxfin. I had hot flashes so bad I thought that you could time them like labor pains. They told me that the pills are really expensive and that they will pay for them for the next 4 years. The Dr.s upped the effexor to 150 mg and now I only have 5-8 hot flashes a day. I do have 2 bone density test a year. dx 8/02  lumpectomy 9/03 chemo and rads. Nancy

Are you getting Zometa?  If not you should probably ask about it.  Helps keep your bones strong. – Tony — Tony Lima                        /"   ASCII ribbon campaign                                   /   against HTML mail                                   X    and postings                                  /

Response:

At my Dec blood work it came back where I had to much calcium, then came more test. so far everthing is ok. My Blood work from Monday 3/9/04 the liver test had some concern so I need to have that redone next week. I will ask at that time about Zometa. Thanks Nancy

Response:

Question:

Thanks (((((Everyone))))) For such a warm welcome (back) lol. I’m feeling so good this evening! Yay. Kirsten

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Everyone, It’s been a long long time since I’ve been here. Some of you might remeber me. My name is Kirsten (Kadie). I wont give any excuses cause there are none. I just haven’t bothered posting. I wish now that I had because you guys where allways so great to me. I’m doing alright, been better, been worse. I’m still busy with school. I am so behind but trying to keep up. Brad and I split up about a week ago for good and we are friends now. I think I like it better. I still love him and he still loves me but we have to much on our own to deal with and don’t need a realtionship too. I’m doing pretty good with my panic attacks. I’m having them every once in a while like i had one the other night but I’m getting better at controling them. I’m no longer on Celexa. I was on Celexa and Wellbutrin and Dr.C took me off of Wellbutrin because it stopped working and then off od Celexa to and I am now on Effexor. I’m up to 75mg’s daily now and I’m not doing to bad considering I guess. I’m having a bad time with my depression still though and have some other issues (realated to the depression) to deal with. but I think I’m getting there. I’m hoping everyone is doing good? I’m sorry I haven’t been posting and like I said there is no excuses so I’m not going to bother trying to come up with any. I’ll just try and post more often — Kirsten http://violent-minds.org ICQ: 48606790

Response:

:I’m hoping everyone is doing good? I’m sorry I haven’t been posting and like :I said there is no excuses so I’m not going to bother trying to come up with :any. I’ll just try and post more often Dear Kirsten, Welcome back!~  Don`t worry about not posting, people are allowed to come and go as freely as they want, there are no rules here Sorry about your breakup with Brad {{{{{Kirsten}}}}} Jackie ~*~My life has been a tapestry of rich and royal hue, an everlasting vision of the everchanging view~*~ ~Carole King~

Response:

Hi Kirsten! Good to see you here.  Please don’t apologize.  This is only reserved for me.  <g  Just kidding.  I’m sorry about you and Brad, but glad to see you’re still friends.  I hope Effexor helps with the depression. Love, Di

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Everyone, It’s been a long long time since I’ve been here. Some of you might remeber me. My name is Kirsten (Kadie). I wont give any excuses cause there are none. I just haven’t bothered posting. I wish now that I had because you guys where allways so great to me. I’m doing alright, been better, been worse. I’m still busy with school. I am so behind but trying to keep up. Brad and I split up about a week ago for good and we are friends now. I think I like it better. I still love him and he still loves me but we have to much on our own to deal with and don’t need a realtionship too. I’m doing pretty good with my panic attacks. I’m having them every once in a while like i had one the other night but I’m getting better at controling them. I’m no longer on Celexa. I was on Celexa and Wellbutrin and Dr.C took me off of Wellbutrin because it stopped working and then off od Celexa to and I am now on Effexor. I’m up to 75mg’s daily now and I’m not doing to bad considering I guess. I’m having a bad time with my depression still though and have some other issues (realated to the depression) to deal with. but I think I’m getting there. I’m hoping everyone is doing good? I’m sorry I haven’t been posting and like I said there is no excuses so I’m not going to bother trying to come up with any. I’ll just try and post more often — Kirsten http://violent-minds.org ICQ: 48606790

Response:

Good to see you again, Kirsten. Effexor is a good med for depression. Chip

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Everyone, It’s been a long long time since I’ve been here. Some of you might remeber me. My name is Kirsten (Kadie). I wont give any excuses cause there are none. I just haven’t bothered posting. I wish now that I had because you guys where allways so great to me. I’m doing alright, been better, been worse. I’m still busy with school. I am so behind but trying to keep up. Brad and I split up about a week ago for good and we are friends now. I think I like it better. I still love him and he still loves me but we have to much on our own to deal with and don’t need a realtionship too. I’m doing pretty good with my panic attacks. I’m having them every once in a while like i had one the other night but I’m getting better at controling them. I’m no longer on Celexa. I was on Celexa and Wellbutrin and Dr.C took me off of Wellbutrin because it stopped working and then off od Celexa to and I am now on Effexor. I’m up to 75mg’s daily now and I’m not doing to bad considering I guess. I’m having a bad time with my depression still though and have some other issues (realated to the depression) to deal with. but I think I’m getting there. I’m hoping everyone is doing good? I’m sorry I haven’t been posting and like I said there is no excuses so I’m not going to bother trying to come up with any. I’ll just try and post more often — Kirsten http://violent-minds.org ICQ: 48606790

Response:

Hi Kirsten, You don’t need any excuses for not posting.  Real life is more important for us all.  Glad to have you back! Take care, Liz – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Everyone, It’s been a long long time since I’ve been here. Some of you might remeber me. My name is Kirsten (Kadie). I wont give any excuses cause there are none. I just haven’t bothered posting. I wish now that I had because you guys where allways so great to me. I’m doing alright, been better, been worse. I’m still busy with school. I am so behind but trying to keep up. Brad and I split up about a week ago for good and we are friends now. I think I like it better. I still love him and he still loves me but we have to much on our own to deal with and don’t need a realtionship too. I’m doing pretty good with my panic attacks. I’m having them every once in a while like i had one the other night but I’m getting better at controling them. I’m no longer on Celexa. I was on Celexa and Wellbutrin and Dr.C took me off of Wellbutrin because it stopped working and then off od Celexa to and I am now on Effexor. I’m up to 75mg’s daily now and I’m not doing to bad considering I guess. I’m having a bad time with my depression still though and have some other issues (realated to the depression) to deal with. but I think I’m getting there. I’m hoping everyone is doing good? I’m sorry I haven’t been posting and like I said there is no excuses so I’m not going to bother trying to come up with any. I’ll just try and post more often — Kirsten http://violent-minds.org ICQ: 48606790

Response:

Hi, Kirsten, Yes, I remember you.  Glad to know you are doing fairly well.  Sorry to hear about you and Brad but if you are able to remain friends, that’s terrific. Hope the Effexor helps you.  Zoloft really lifted a lot of my depression. smiles, Elise

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Everyone, It’s been a long long time since I’ve been here. Some of you might remeber me. My name is Kirsten (Kadie). I wont give any excuses cause there are none. I just haven’t bothered posting. I wish now that I had because you guys where allways so great to me. I’m doing alright, been better, been worse. I’m still busy with school. I am so behind but trying to keep up. Brad and I split up about a week ago for good and we are friends now. I think I like it better. I still love him and he still loves me but we have to much on our own to deal with and don’t need a realtionship too. I’m doing pretty good with my panic attacks. I’m having them every once in a while like i had one the other night but I’m getting better at controling them. I’m no longer on Celexa. I was on Celexa and Wellbutrin and Dr.C took me off of Wellbutrin because it stopped working and then off od Celexa to and I am now on Effexor. I’m up to 75mg’s daily now and I’m not doing to bad considering I guess. I’m having a bad time with my depression still though and have some other issues (realated to the depression) to deal with. but I think I’m getting there. I’m hoping everyone is doing good? I’m sorry I haven’t been posting and like I said there is no excuses so I’m not going to bother trying to come up with any. I’ll just try and post more often — Kirsten http://violent-minds.org ICQ: 48606790

Response:

Hi Everyone, It’s been a long long time since I’ve been here. Some of you might remeber me. My name is Kirsten (Kadie). I wont give any excuses cause there are none. I just haven’t bothered posting. I wish now that I had because you guys where allways so great to me. I’m doing alright, been better, been worse. I’m still busy with school. I am so behind but trying to keep up. Brad and I split up about a week ago for good and we are friends now. I think I like it better. I still love him and he still loves me but we have to much on our own to deal with and don’t need a realtionship too. I’m doing pretty good with my panic attacks. I’m having them every once in a while like i had one the other night but I’m getting better at controling them. I’m no longer on Celexa. I was on Celexa and Wellbutrin and Dr.C took me off of Wellbutrin because it stopped working and then off od Celexa to and I am now on Effexor. I’m up to 75mg’s daily now and I’m not doing to bad considering I guess. I’m having a bad time with my depression still though and have some other issues (realated to the depression) to deal with. but I think I’m getting there. I’m hoping everyone is doing good? I’m sorry I haven’t been posting and like I said there is no excuses so I’m not going to bother trying to come up with any. I’ll just try and post more often — Kirsten http://violent-minds.org ICQ: 48606790

Response:

Question:

As others have mentioned, I’d sure give Zoloft a try. I, too, have been on all of it. Until I started Zoloft, I had been in the hospital 5 times. It’s now been 7 years since my last admission and have only missed a handful of days from work because of depression. Zoloft changed my life. Just remember that when you first start the med, you may have some bothersome side affects but they do end(at least for me). Stick with it and you will find the results well-worth it. Best of luck. Emily

Response:

I noticed someone suggested Lamictal in one of the posts.  I am currently on Lamictal, along with Wellbutrin and Serax at night.  As for the Lamictal, I didn’t really notice much by itself at first, but the obvious thing I noticed about Lamictal is that I didn’t experience any side affects!  None. Now, when they started to add the others, of course I experienced some side affects.  They just increased my dose of Lamictal to 125mg, and again, no side effects.  The hope is that they just might have needed a little bit of a higher dose for it to kick in. So far, so good, but … well, it is probably way to soon. But again, the nice factor about Lamictal for me was that I experienced NO side affects.  What is the harm in trying if there are no side effects? There is a rash that you have to watch for, but that will just mean you have to stop… What is a rash that will go away compared to .. headaches, insomnia, being tired all the time, constipation, …. you get the idea.. Pamela

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Group: I have burned out everything.  For me, burnout on AD meds seems to be experiencing only awful side effects.  By the time I stop the med, I realize that it had only helped 5% of the depression I suffer from. Tricyclics (ineffective 10 years ago), Prozac, Effexor, Paxil, Manerix, ECTs, Nardil and Parnate (effective 10 years ago), Wellbutrin, Celexa: All let me down so to speak. Should I maybe try Tricyclics again??? Does anyone here (of course there is) have infinite wisdom on the newest AD meds that could help?  (refer to list above if confused).  My pdoc is a AD med specialist, lol. I’m feeling like there is no hope or relief from this life of hell for me. It is not like I have not tried.  Unmedicated at the moment has left me progressively turning to the fetus position.  I only have need to just disappear.  Consequently, I have a hubby screaming at me to TAKE DRUGS, STOP SCREWING AROUND WITH YOUR MEDS, GET IT TOGETHER AND COME AROUND.  YOU HAVE TO BE WORKING BEFORE YOUR UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE RUNS OUT (November) and there are no jobs in the community I live in.  My favorite is TRY HARDER TO GET BETTER.  Consequently, I just pull up my body armour and crawl into fetus position and withdraw.  Somehow, I don’t blame him.  He has been through hell and back, and is still here. Pdoc called me today after waiting 2 days for a return call from her.  She told me to not take any meds until appt. w/her in Sept.  If I’m becoming – got knows what – to call in 10 days.  Whatever, yes Dr.  At the moment I’m considering a large bottle of Vermouth or heading downtown to purchase some street weed.  But, I don’t have the energy and I’ll have to buy a lighter. Pathetic.  How many ASA with Codeine can I take before coma?  I just don’t want to impose on anyone, if you know what I mean.  And I quit smoking 4 years ago because I was worried about my health. Work…….well, I have a new problem.  Alnar (?) nerve, both arms, crashed and messed up my hands in the last two weeks.  Things don’t look good. The typing here may be looking ok now, but I have to really work hard at it. I’ve been typing for 32 years.  This problem is going to be difficult to explain when I apply for those Exec. Secretarial positions I’m qualified for.  lol.  Yes Sir, I can do more than just type! Cheers? Carrie

Response:

Thanks for mentioning it, but I had 8 ECTs while in hospital 1-1/2 years ago, over a 3-week period.  They just did not work.  I crashed in a bad way after the 8th. Carrie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Carrie, I am a newbie to the group and depression in general, but have you asked your pdoc about a course of ECT? Rob D Group: I have burned out everything.  For me, burnout on AD meds seems to be experiencing only awful side effects.  By the time I stop the med, I realize that it had only helped 5% of the depression I suffer from. Tricyclics (ineffective 10 years ago), Prozac, Effexor, Paxil, Manerix, ECTs, Nardil and Parnate (effective 10 years ago), Wellbutrin, Celexa: All let me down so to speak. Should I maybe try Tricyclics again??? Does anyone here (of course there is) have infinite wisdom on the newest AD meds that could help?  (refer to list above if confused).  My pdoc is a AD med specialist, lol. I’m feeling like there is no hope or relief from this life of hell for me. It is not like I have not tried.  Unmedicated at the moment has left me progressively turning to the fetus position.  I only have need to just disappear.  Consequently, I have a hubby screaming at me to TAKE DRUGS, STOP SCREWING AROUND WITH YOUR MEDS, GET IT TOGETHER AND COME AROUND.  YOU HAVE TO BE WORKING BEFORE YOUR UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE RUNS OUT (November) and there are no jobs in the community I live in.  My favorite is TRY HARDER TO GET BETTER.  Consequently, I just pull up my body armour and crawl into fetus position and withdraw.  Somehow, I don’t blame him.  He has been through hell and back, and is still here. Pdoc called me today after waiting 2 days for a return call from her. She told me to not take any meds until appt. w/her in Sept.  If I’m becoming – got knows what – to call in 10 days.  Whatever, yes Dr.  At the moment I’m considering a large bottle of Vermouth or heading downtown to purchase some street weed.  But, I don’t have the energy and I’ll have to buy a lighter. Pathetic.  How many ASA with Codeine can I take before coma?  I just don’t want to impose on anyone, if you know what I mean.  And I quit smoking 4 years ago because I was worried about my health. Work…….well, I have a new problem.  Alnar (?) nerve, both arms, crashed and messed up my hands in the last two weeks.  Things don’t look good. The typing here may be looking ok now, but I have to really work hard at it. I’ve been typing for 32 years.  This problem is going to be difficult to explain when I apply for those Exec. Secretarial positions I’m qualified for.  lol.  Yes Sir, I can do more than just type! Cheers? Carrie

Response:

Carrie, I am a newbie to the group and depression in general, but have you asked your pdoc about a course of ECT? Rob D – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Group: I have burned out everything.  For me, burnout on AD meds seems to be experiencing only awful side effects.  By the time I stop the med, I realize that it had only helped 5% of the depression I suffer from. Tricyclics (ineffective 10 years ago), Prozac, Effexor, Paxil, Manerix, ECTs, Nardil and Parnate (effective 10 years ago), Wellbutrin, Celexa:   All let me down so to speak. Should I maybe try Tricyclics again??? Does anyone here (of course there is) have infinite wisdom on the newest AD meds that could help?  (refer to list above if confused).  My pdoc is a AD med specialist, lol. I’m feeling like there is no hope or relief from this life of hell for me. It is not like I have not tried.  Unmedicated at the moment has left me progressively turning to the fetus position.  I only have need to just disappear.  Consequently, I have a hubby screaming at me to TAKE DRUGS, STOP SCREWING AROUND WITH YOUR MEDS, GET IT TOGETHER AND COME AROUND.  YOU HAVE TO BE WORKING BEFORE YOUR UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE RUNS OUT (November) and there are no jobs in the community I live in.  My favorite is TRY HARDER TO GET BETTER.  Consequently, I just pull up my body armour and crawl into fetus position and withdraw.  Somehow, I don’t blame him.  He has been through hell and back, and is still here. Pdoc called me today after waiting 2 days for a return call from her.  She told me to not take any meds until appt. w/her in Sept.  If I’m becoming – got knows what – to call in 10 days.  Whatever, yes Dr.  At the moment I’m considering a large bottle of Vermouth or heading downtown to purchase some street weed.  But, I don’t have the energy and I’ll have to buy a lighter. Pathetic.  How many ASA with Codeine can I take before coma?  I just don’t want to impose on anyone, if you know what I mean.  And I quit smoking 4 years ago because I was worried about my health. Work…….well, I have a new problem.  Alnar (?) nerve, both arms, crashed and messed up my hands in the last two weeks.  Things don’t look good.  The typing here may be looking ok now, but I have to really work hard at it. I’ve been typing for 32 years.  This problem is going to be difficult to explain when I apply for those Exec. Secretarial positions I’m qualified for.  lol.  Yes Sir, I can do more than just type! Cheers? Carrie

Response:

I wish I could help you : (((((((((((((((((Carie)))))))))))))))))

My bad Carrie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Group: I have burned out everything.  For me, burnout on AD meds seems to be experiencing only awful side effects.  By the time I stop the med, I realize that it had only helped 5% of the depression I suffer from. Tricyclics (ineffective 10 years ago), Prozac, Effexor, Paxil, Manerix, ECTs, Nardil and Parnate (effective 10 years ago), Wellbutrin, Celexa:   All let me down so to speak. Should I maybe try Tricyclics again??? Does anyone here (of course there is) have infinite wisdom on the newest AD meds that could help?  (refer to list above if confused).  My pdoc is a AD med specialist, lol. I’m feeling like there is no hope or relief from this life of hell for me. It is not like I have not tried.  Unmedicated at the moment has left me progressively turning to the fetus position.  I only have need to just disappear.  Consequently, I have a hubby screaming at me to TAKE DRUGS, STOP SCREWING AROUND WITH YOUR MEDS, GET IT TOGETHER AND COME AROUND.  YOU HAVE TO BE WORKING BEFORE YOUR UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE RUNS OUT (November) and there are no jobs in the community I live in.  My favorite is TRY HARDER TO GET BETTER.  Consequently, I just pull up my body armour and crawl into fetus position and withdraw.  Somehow, I don’t blame him.  He has been through hell and back, and is still here. Pdoc called me today after waiting 2 days for a return call from her.  She told me to not take any meds until appt. w/her in Sept.  If I’m becoming – got knows what – to call in 10 days.  Whatever, yes Dr.  At the moment I’m considering a large bottle of Vermouth or heading downtown to purchase some street weed.  But, I don’t have the energy and I’ll have to buy a lighter. Pathetic.  How many ASA with Codeine can I take before coma?  I just don’t want to impose on anyone, if you know what I mean.  And I quit smoking 4 years ago because I was worried about my health. Work…….well, I have a new problem.  Alnar (?) nerve, both arms, crashed and messed up my hands in the last two weeks.  Things don’t look good.  The typing here may be looking ok now, but I have to really work hard at it. I’ve been typing for 32 years.  This problem is going to be difficult to explain when I apply for those Exec. Secretarial positions I’m qualified for.  lol.  Yes Sir, I can do more than just type! Cheers? Carrie —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

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Response:

I wish I could help you : (((((((((((((((((Carie))))))))))))))))) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Group: I have burned out everything.  For me, burnout on AD meds seems to be experiencing only awful side effects.  By the time I stop the med, I realize that it had only helped 5% of the depression I suffer from. Tricyclics (ineffective 10 years ago), Prozac, Effexor, Paxil, Manerix, ECTs, Nardil and Parnate (effective 10 years ago), Wellbutrin, Celexa:   All let me down so to speak. Should I maybe try Tricyclics again??? Does anyone here (of course there is) have infinite wisdom on the newest AD meds that could help?  (refer to list above if confused).  My pdoc is a AD med specialist, lol. I’m feeling like there is no hope or relief from this life of hell for me. It is not like I have not tried.  Unmedicated at the moment has left me progressively turning to the fetus position.  I only have need to just disappear.  Consequently, I have a hubby screaming at me to TAKE DRUGS, STOP SCREWING AROUND WITH YOUR MEDS, GET IT TOGETHER AND COME AROUND.  YOU HAVE TO BE WORKING BEFORE YOUR UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE RUNS OUT (November) and there are no jobs in the community I live in.  My favorite is TRY HARDER TO GET BETTER.  Consequently, I just pull up my body armour and crawl into fetus position and withdraw.  Somehow, I don’t blame him.  He has been through hell and back, and is still here. Pdoc called me today after waiting 2 days for a return call from her.  She told me to not take any meds until appt. w/her in Sept.  If I’m becoming – got knows what – to call in 10 days.  Whatever, yes Dr.  At the moment I’m considering a large bottle of Vermouth or heading downtown to purchase some street weed.  But, I don’t have the energy and I’ll have to buy a lighter. Pathetic.  How many ASA with Codeine can I take before coma?  I just don’t want to impose on anyone, if you know what I mean.  And I quit smoking 4 years ago because I was worried about my health. Work…….well, I have a new problem.  Alnar (?) nerve, both arms, crashed and messed up my hands in the last two weeks.  Things don’t look good.  The typing here may be looking ok now, but I have to really work hard at it. I’ve been typing for 32 years.  This problem is going to be difficult to explain when I apply for those Exec. Secretarial positions I’m qualified for.  lol.  Yes Sir, I can do more than just type! Cheers? Carrie

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Response:

Cheers? Carrie I’ve read posts here about Zoloft and that was one I was going to inquire about.  thanks for the reminder. The abyss.  Thanks for giving me a word for that *feeling*.  Black hole is another great description.  Ah, wouldn’t want to give you any more pain! But, I may occasionally rant away.    I’ll pick some (non-controversial) issue and just pick it apart. Thanks Sharon Carrie )

Well, at least you’ve put a smiley face next to your name, I just started Remeron and it’s going very well for me. I’ve often wondered if people experience anti dep "burn out" after a length of time on one drug, which then means switching to another.  I’ve  plowed through a fair number of different anti deps.    My last successful one was dosage made me very dizzy.   I also took Celexa with the Effexor at times. I also like that word "abyss"…….it describes my past year’s depression recurrence exactly.  However, I also have some issues that eventually caused incredible anger, and everytime I had a setback (concerning the issues) I would have uncontrollable episodes of rage to the point where I was obsessed with revenge…..the kind that is associated with a knife.  So the Remeron kinda calmed me down, and also I’ve been on a regimen of Xanax, but am now ramping down on that. Carrie, maybe I misunderstood your post, but just why in the heck is your pdoc having you sit in limbo for awhile? Feel free to contact me if you need to rant…… controversial or otherwise. Jeanne – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

<< Tricyclics (ineffective 10 years ago), Prozac, Effexor, Paxil, Manerix, ECTs, Nardil and Parnate (effective 10 years ago), Wellbutrin, Celexa:   All let me down so to speak. Try an SSRI or Effexor augmented with an atypical anti-psychotic like Seroquel or Zyprexa. Can be very effective even in cases of non psychotic treatment resistant depression. Another thing you could try is lithium or lamictal augmentation of an antidepressant…some people swear by lithium augmentation and they arent bipolar in the least. Have you had your thyroid checked anytime in the last couple years? That could be causing med poopout, quite common in females. Should I maybe try Tricyclics again??

Nah, probably a waste of time if it was ineffective the first time around. Eric Steroids caused my depression…prednisone should be used conservatively http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FactsAndFallaciesOfDepression MIBS (Minimally Invasive Brain Stimulation) http://www.musc.edu/psychiatry/fnrd/tms.htm

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Group: I have burned out everything.  For me, burnout on AD meds seems to be experiencing only awful side effects.  By the time I stop the med, I realize that it had only helped 5% of the depression I suffer from. Tricyclics (ineffective 10 years ago), Prozac, Effexor, Paxil, Manerix, ECTs, Nardil and Parnate (effective 10 years ago), Wellbutrin, Celexa: All let me down so to speak. Should I maybe try Tricyclics again??? Does anyone here (of course there is) have infinite wisdom on the newest AD meds that could help?  (refer to list above if confused).  My pdoc is a AD med specialist, lol. I’m feeling like there is no hope or relief from this life of hell for me. It is not like I have not tried.  Unmedicated at the moment has left me progressively turning to the fetus position.  I only have need to just disappear.  Consequently, I have a hubby screaming at me to TAKE DRUGS, STOP SCREWING AROUND WITH YOUR MEDS, GET IT TOGETHER AND COME AROUND.  YOU HAVE TO BE WORKING BEFORE YOUR UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE RUNS OUT (November) and there are no jobs in the community I live in.  My favorite is TRY HARDER TO GET BETTER.  Consequently, I just pull up my body armour and crawl into fetus position and withdraw.  Somehow, I don’t blame him.  He has been through hell and back, and is still here. Pdoc called me today after waiting 2 days for a return call from her. She told me to not take any meds until appt. w/her in Sept.  If I’m becoming – got knows what – to call in 10 days.  Whatever, yes Dr.  At the moment I’m considering a large bottle of Vermouth or heading downtown to purchase some street weed.  But, I don’t have the energy and I’ll have to buy a lighter. Pathetic.  How many ASA with Codeine can I take before coma?  I just don’t want to impose on anyone, if you know what I mean.  And I quit smoking 4 years ago because I was worried about my health. Work…….well, I have a new problem.  Alnar (?) nerve, both arms, crashed and messed up my hands in the last two weeks.  Things don’t look good. The typing here may be looking ok now, but I have to really work hard at it. I’ve been typing for 32 years.  This problem is going to be difficult to explain when I apply for those Exec. Secretarial positions I’m qualified for.  lol.  Yes Sir, I can do more than just type! Cheers? Carrie Wow.. Sounds like the shit is hitting the fan, so sorry!

        Yea, it does come to think of it.  Life a a total stress fracture right now. Have you tried Zoloft? It "Prozacian" (technical, eh?), it just acts on a different receptor. It pooped on me but worked well, and fast. Tricyclics _may_ work, but if they didn’t work the first time around, I wouldn’t bet the farm on them. I’m sure you know hubby just doesn’t understand, but it would be nice if they did. Tell him how you feel when he says things like that. I’m not trying to start WW III, but it may help. And I know it’s hard, but try not to feel you’re imposing. Please consider I’m divorced before trying it.

I’ve read posts here about Zoloft and that was one I was going to inquire about.  thanks for the reminder. <LectureDO stay in touch with your pdoc, she may have plans for a new med, and taking something could "mess up THE plan". If you’re feeling, well, that abyss feeling, don’t hesitate to call her.</end lecture Wish I could say something that would take some pain away! Write if you need to rant. Hugs, Sharon

The abyss.  Thanks for giving me a word for that *feeling*.  Black hole is another great description.  Ah, wouldn’t want to give you any more pain! But, I may occasionally rant away.    I’ll pick some (non-controversial) issue and just pick it apart. Thanks Sharon Carrie )

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Group: I have burned out everything.  For me, burnout on AD meds seems to be experiencing only awful side effects.  By the time I stop the med, I realize that it had only helped 5% of the depression I suffer from. Tricyclics (ineffective 10 years ago), Prozac, Effexor, Paxil, Manerix, ECTs, Nardil and Parnate (effective 10 years ago), Wellbutrin, Celexa: All let me down so to speak. Should I maybe try Tricyclics again??? Does anyone here (of course there is) have infinite wisdom on the newest AD meds that could help?  (refer to list above if confused).  My pdoc is a AD med specialist, lol. I’m feeling like there is no hope or relief from this life of hell for me. It is not like I have not tried.  Unmedicated at the moment has left me progressively turning to the fetus position.  I only have need to just disappear.  Consequently, I have a hubby screaming at me to TAKE DRUGS, STOP SCREWING AROUND WITH YOUR MEDS, GET IT TOGETHER AND COME AROUND.  YOU HAVE TO BE WORKING BEFORE YOUR UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE RUNS OUT (November) and there are no jobs in the community I live in.  My favorite is TRY HARDER TO GET BETTER.  Consequently, I just pull up my body armour and crawl into fetus position and withdraw.  Somehow, I don’t blame him.  He has been through hell and back, and is still here. Pdoc called me today after waiting 2 days for a return call from her. She told me to not take any meds until appt. w/her in Sept.  If I’m becoming – got knows what – to call in 10 days.  Whatever, yes Dr.  At the moment I’m considering a large bottle of Vermouth or heading downtown to purchase some street weed.  But, I don’t have the energy and I’ll have to buy a lighter. Pathetic.  How many ASA with Codeine can I take before coma?  I just don’t want to impose on anyone, if you know what I mean.  And I quit smoking 4 years ago because I was worried about my health. Work…….well, I have a new problem.  Alnar (?) nerve, both arms, crashed and messed up my hands in the last two weeks.  Things don’t look good. The typing here may be looking ok now, but I have to really work hard at it. I’ve been typing for 32 years.  This problem is going to be difficult to explain when I apply for those Exec. Secretarial positions I’m qualified for.  lol.  Yes Sir, I can do more than just type! Cheers? Carrie Have you tried desipramine?  I haven’t see you post that you tried that one….it’s worked really well for me.  just a thought….

No, I’ve not desipramine.  But I will be print off suggestions made here and talking to the pdoc about meds. Ulnar nerve entrapment at the elbow….I have that in my left arm…they can transpose the nerve to the front of the elbow to take the pressure off the nerve and eliminate the numbness.  I haven’t had the surgery yet, I’m trying not  to have it done, I just compensate for not feeling in those fingers……   Get to a neuro if you haven’t and have the ncv done on both arms and find out exactly where the compression is.  They can splint both arms with a brace that has a little air bladder that takes pressure off the ulnar nerve and hopefully some of the numbness goes away..but you need to see a neuro…typing is hard when you can’t feel all your fingers….. Deborah

wow, amazing!  That is exactly what it is.  I’ve got a neuro appt in Oct. I’ve also got some spinal X-ray to do also.  Some thought that my back plays an ugly part.  It will still be a while before any resolution to this little cutie is fixed ) thanks Deborah! Carrie

Response:

Group: I have burned out everything.  For me, burnout on AD meds seems to be experiencing only awful side effects.  By the time I stop the med, I realize that it had only helped 5% of the depression I suffer from. Tricyclics (ineffective 10 years ago), Prozac, Effexor, Paxil, Manerix, ECTs, Nardil and Parnate (effective 10 years ago), Wellbutrin, Celexa:   All let me down so to speak. Should I maybe try Tricyclics again??? Does anyone here (of course there is) have infinite wisdom on the newest AD meds that could help?  (refer to list above if confused).  My pdoc is a AD med specialist, lol. I’m feeling like there is no hope or relief from this life of hell for me. It is not like I have not tried.  Unmedicated at the moment has left me progressively turning to the fetus position.  I only have need to just disappear.  Consequently, I have a hubby screaming at me to TAKE DRUGS, STOP SCREWING AROUND WITH YOUR MEDS, GET IT TOGETHER AND COME AROUND.  YOU HAVE TO BE WORKING BEFORE YOUR UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE RUNS OUT (November) and there are no jobs in the community I live in.  My favorite is TRY HARDER TO GET BETTER.  Consequently, I just pull up my body armour and crawl into fetus position and withdraw.  Somehow, I don’t blame him.  He has been through hell and back, and is still here. Pdoc called me today after waiting 2 days for a return call from her.  She told me to not take any meds until appt. w/her in Sept.  If I’m becoming – got knows what – to call in 10 days.  Whatever, yes Dr.  At the moment I’m considering a large bottle of Vermouth or heading downtown to purchase some street weed.  But, I don’t have the energy and I’ll have to buy a lighter. Pathetic.  How many ASA with Codeine can I take before coma?  I just don’t want to impose on anyone, if you know what I mean.  And I quit smoking 4 years ago because I was worried about my health. Work…….well, I have a new problem.  Alnar (?) nerve, both arms, crashed and messed up my hands in the last two weeks.  Things don’t look good.  The typing here may be looking ok now, but I have to really work hard at it. I’ve been typing for 32 years.  This problem is going to be difficult to explain when I apply for those Exec. Secretarial positions I’m qualified for.  lol.  Yes Sir, I can do more than just type! Cheers? Carrie

Response:

Question:

    Uh, just a thought. How high a dose of thyroid hormones are you on? T3 ? T4? Both maybe? The reason I ask is that if you are on too high a dose you can get shaky BUT when I was extremely hypo I shook pretty bad too. I never took Xanax, I take Valium. I think it is gentler on the system than Xanax. Do you take in much caffeine in the course of a day? Caffeine will make your hands tremble too. The adrenals can cause problems and often go hand in hand with thyroid problems, just another thing to consider.     Being a guy, I can’t vouch for if menopause would cause this but I can tell you I’ve never heard of it, even though it can do some strange things so I don’t discount that either ( I told you I might not have a good answer for you ).     Did you by chance have a recent copy of any tests you had done? Posting them here will get you replies that might be a bit more revealing or at least tell you a bit more about what is going on. "PowerPoster" <powerpos…@nospam.com

wrote in message

news:tNOu6.104188$tP3.1638117@news1.rdc1.bc.home.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Hi, my main questions were: – is constant tremor ever experienced by any of you on thyroid

replacement,

or who took xanax – do any of the women reading this have menopausal symptoms at the same

time > and have any of your doctors figured out which is menopause and which is > thyroid related. If so, has estrogen helped? > John Riggs <johnri32…@yahoo.com

wrote in message

> news:99ebgv$qa94$1@ID-41632.news.dfncis.de… > >     You don’t want junk mail? Gosh, and I was so looking forward to > sending > > mine off to some underprivileged soul > >     I’m sorry, I read your post but I lost track of what it was you were > > asking. Could you post a short, eentsy, version just for me? Pretty > please? > > I promise to give an answer, even if it’s wrong. > >     Thanks > >             John > > "PowerPoster" <powerpos…@nospam.com

wrote in message

> > news:Aoxu6.96934$tP3.1557994@news1.rdc1.bc.home.com… > > > Sorry, i forgot to give my address for those who can reply, it is > > > suz…@yahoo.com. Although I also will read the newsgroup. Thanks. I > > didn’t > > > have it in my preferences to avoid masses of unwanted junk mail.

Response:

    You don’t want junk mail? Gosh, and I was so looking forward to sending mine off to some underprivileged soul     I’m sorry, I read your post but I lost track of what it was you were asking. Could you post a short, eentsy, version just for me? Pretty please? I promise to give an answer, even if it’s wrong.     Thanks             John "PowerPoster" <powerpos…@nospam.com

wrote in message

news:Aoxu6.96934$tP3.1557994@news1.rdc1.bc.home.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Sorry, i forgot to give my address for those who can reply, it is suz…@yahoo.com. Although I also will read the newsgroup. Thanks. I

didn’t

have it in my preferences to avoid masses of unwanted junk mail.

Response:

Hi, my main questions were: – is constant tremor ever experienced by any of you on thyroid replacement, or who took xanax – do any of the women reading this have menopausal symptoms at the same time and have any of your doctors figured out which is menopause and which is thyroid related. If so, has estrogen helped? John Riggs <johnri32…@yahoo.com

wrote in message

news:99ebgv$qa94$1@ID-41632.news.dfncis.de… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

    You don’t want junk mail? Gosh, and I was so looking forward to

sending

mine off to some underprivileged soul     I’m sorry, I read your post but I lost track of what it was you were asking. Could you post a short, eentsy, version just for me? Pretty

please? > I promise to give an answer, even if it’s wrong. >     Thanks >             John > "PowerPoster" <powerpos…@nospam.com

wrote in message

> news:Aoxu6.96934$tP3.1557994@news1.rdc1.bc.home.com… > > Sorry, i forgot to give my address for those who can reply, it is > > suz…@yahoo.com. Although I also will read the newsgroup. Thanks. I > didn’t > > have it in my preferences to avoid masses of unwanted junk mail.

Response:

Sorry, i forgot to give my address for those who can reply, it is suz…@yahoo.com. Although I also will read the newsgroup. Thanks. I didn’t have it in my preferences to avoid masses of unwanted junk mail.

Response:

HI Suze, I better leave someone who knows more about thyroid to answer your post but I thought I would let the US readers know that the  CES you mention is a plant based conjugated estrogen similiar to Cenestin sold in the US. I’ve also removed the other newsgroup for this reply. Kathryn kathr…@telus.net On Thu, 22 Mar 2001 22:07:46 GMT, "PowerPoster" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -<powerpos…@nospam.com

wrote: I went to my dr. today to get the results of my blood test last week. He won’t give them on the phone. It was very hard driving there, I have constant tremors and they are worsening. However, he dismissed them as well as my shivering and arm and leg weakness, these all have been with me only since early Feb, for no known reason. For the first time he chose not to order a TSH – only a free T4. So, it was 20.8. Normal range is 10.5 to 20.0, so it is just slightly high, but that then might explain why I have felt attacks of hyper adrenaline? And yet, I have felt ill and almost comatose on a lower dose, previously, and was attempting not to be hypothyroid. But he says that 100 mcg is too high and 75 would be too low, so I must now take .88. My last test a few months ago, the free t4 was 18 or high normal, and I was taking 100 then too, and told to stay on 100. Then I was switched by my endocrinologist to a combo of T4 and T3, which was excessive and made me have more heart pounding than usual, and I stopped the T3. I also felt hypo on the divided dose .50-T4, .12-T3 regimen, but more T3 seemed to make me have more sudden bursts of heart pounding. Even with the combined dose, the equivalent I tried to get was 100 mcg a day as it seemed to make me feel less ill and less hypo than other doses. I have years of journals to analyze for symptoms and doses; it has not helped me find an answer. It is always either too high or too low, with a euthyroid feeling appearing so rarely that maybe 2 or 3 times in ten years I have felt it and diarized it as a massively red letter day, virtually a feeling of euphoria. This euthyroid is the way I felt for the rest of my life  the first 45 years until the diseases started. Just able to function and feeling well. So my T4 is slightly high, and I should therefore not have hypo symptoms, which I do still have – feeling suddenly sleepy at any time and falling asleep for an hour or two. (Yet I have insomnia late at night, and spells of hyper, surging, too much unuseable adrenaline coursing through me). Swelling feet and legs, no appetite, hair falling out in my brush and when I wash it in huge clumps, trouble with digestion when I do eat, but the number one hypo symptom I have day and night is freezing cold, shivering, every day, unrelated to the temperature, that nothing will warm up until it passes. It’s an internal thing.  The constant tremors are not always shivering from cold…sometimes I have them together. These are NOT hyper symptoms so why would I think the dose was too high? My basal temperataure, when I get up, has ranged from 97.3 to 98.2, which I believe is normal according to Dr. Broda Barnes. One would think my dose was good. In the past the temperature was in the 96 range, and yet I felt better then, at a lower dose, though I had the hypo symptoms. Someone posted the query, which would you rather be – hypo or hyper? Choosing between them is something I have always had to do, and each one becomes horrific, causing me to go the other way for a time. Can this constant seesawing be causing the new problems? If one has to choose, hypo is less debilitating and life-destroying. One gets fat with painful joints, and slow, and placid, and confused, but there is a calm. And yet, then one is wistful for the energetic bursts, relative fit body and occasional clear thinking one did have even with the accompanying high anxiety, nervous state. As I am trying to explain, now I seem to be both hyper and hypo, but the test says slightly hyper. Besides the T4 test I had an FSH test. A year or so ago it was still normal, 22, now it is 47, which is out of range. Though I have had perimenopausal symptoms – severe ones, and all of them, for 6 years now, my tests were always in the normal range until now. So he gave me estrogen – CES, a ‘natural’ plant based one. He said more women were against Premarin now (which I used to be, but now I don’t care – I just want relief). I will take them, what else can I do? Hoping it will help. I studied this 3 or 4 years ago and was even given both Premarin and CES by doctors at the time of my hot flashes but I did not have good results and stopped them. Now that the hormone levels have changed maybe this is the answer. Does anyone have experience with CES? I have become a querulous, middle aged woman whom no one wants to know about, I suddenly realized in his office when facing his contempt and his lack of sympathy for me as a person, and his dismissing my complete worsening in the last 2 months…..his restating what he always states: "We’ll have to see if this gets the thyroid in range…" In ten years nothing has worked, and currently I am worse than ever before. My health has deteriorated drastically since around last October. The pains, weakness, unsteadiness, tremor are considered ‘essential tremor’ by a neurologist, and fibromyalgia by a rheumatologist, but there is NO treatment for these…until I take the .88 T4 for a while and if I don’t improve then my g.p. will give me a form of propanolol. This is the same thing I took when I first got Graves’ disease in 1989 and before the radiation. Why is this happening? If the T4 level is so  high then why not just stop the thyroid and become completely hypothyroid, that will calm me and make me placid like a cow, and overweight….which is what happened last year, i basically had ONLY intense muscle pain and hot flashes most of the time. No anxiety or heart pounding attacks, tremors or shivering. I don’t MIND hot flashes. I wish that was all I did have again. I learned to accept and deal with them. I cannot deal with a head tremor and weak muscles. Even my jaw feels sprained after chewing; I cannot hold a cup with one hand. If 100 was such a massive dose that it makes me hyper, then why the combined symptoms which include hypo items like hair loss, cold, confusion, cognitive problems with words and memory, and the rest? My God, I am at the end of my rope, and other than an expensive holistic doctor or naturopath, who might have an insight and might just be a quack, there is nowhere else to turn. It is not a simple matter to change doctors. I can barely stand to go to the ones I do have, that already know my complicated case. It is an ordeal, as everything is such an effort now. But my mind objects, wanting a way out of this nightmare. There surely is a first cause somewhere….the only one I know of is the Graves’ disease, the hyperthyroid suddenly in 1989. Everything else followed. I’ve said this before, I was an energetic, smart, normal looking and successful working mother with many friends and a full life and unbounded energy. And after the treatment I still functioned until 1996 when my body just began to be unable to function. The menopausal stuff began in 1994 and yes I did get worse after that, but nothing helped, and by 1996 I was too disabled to work. Four years now have been lost from my life because of iatrogenic disease. My psychiatrist says it is iatrogenic – doctor-caused. Wrong treatment, wrong pills. I no longer have a thyroid, and nothing replaces it correctly. He just listens to me – he cannot help the physical things and the doctors will not. He gives me Xanax, but i worry that it only makes it worse in the long run, causing rebound anxiety when not taken, as it messes up the GABA receptors in the brain. Yet, I guess I will still rely on it for the worst of the spells I have. Without any thyroid of course I cannot survive, but no combination or amount has worked for long, and these other worse conditions have happened one after another including 3 root canals needed for abcesses in the last year, and continued tooth pain. Despite no sugar in my diet for a year. I read in a doctor’s waiting room once that estrogen is used for every part of the body including the teeth. If that is the case could my tooth problems, nerve problems and the rest all be part of the menopause? I was once an expert on this, I wrote a paper on it that was published to high praise, and now I am too confused to figure it out, as nothing makes sense anymore, and my case does not fit any I read about. I don’t even have hot flashes most of the time and they were not a serious problem for me, in retrospect. I do periodically for a few months and then none. The cold spells and shivering are the thing now. And that totally indicates more thyroid needed, and yet the test shows no, I have even excess T4 in the blood. Any ideas, please, would be welcome. I also have fibromyalgia, and iGa nephropathy, both considered nothing by the medical profession, but those were the diagnoses. I live with constant back pain, but that does not affect my life the way the lack of stable hormones does. I lost 35 pounds since last May, when I deliberately lowered my food intake and did yoga. I continue at the lower weight, but do not lose more as I eat everything I feel like now since I so seldom have any appetite and since food causes indigestion. I felt better when I was obese, but I didn’t like the way I looked. Was it a mistake to diet? I no longer have knee problems, as my doctor promised when the weight came off, and my heel spur also went away. If being obese would restore my stable constitution though I’d do it again, except I am now unable to overeat to the required extent, my digestion won’t allow it. I was told to take Xanax, in November, for the attacks of heart pounding and surging which started

… read more »

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I went to my dr. today to get the results of my blood test last week. He won’t give them on the phone. It was very hard driving there, I have constant tremors and they are worsening. However, he dismissed them as well as my shivering and arm and leg weakness, these all have been with me only since early Feb, for no known reason. For the first time he chose not to order a TSH – only a free T4. So, it was 20.8. Normal range is 10.5 to 20.0, so it is just slightly high, but that then might explain why I have felt attacks of hyper adrenaline? And yet, I have felt ill and almost comatose on a lower dose, previously, and was attempting not to be hypothyroid. But he says that 100 mcg is too high and 75 would be too low, so I must now take .88. My last test a few months ago, the free t4 was 18 or high normal, and I was taking 100 then too, and told to stay on 100. Then I was switched by my endocrinologist to a combo of T4 and T3, which was excessive and made me have more heart pounding than usual, and I stopped the T3. I also felt hypo on the divided dose .50-T4, .12-T3 regimen, but more T3 seemed to make me have more sudden bursts of heart pounding. Even with the combined dose, the equivalent I tried to get was 100 mcg a day as it seemed to make me feel less ill and less hypo than other doses. I have years of journals to analyze for symptoms and doses; it has not helped me find an answer. It is always either too high or too low, with a euthyroid feeling appearing so rarely that maybe 2 or 3 times in ten years I have felt it and diarized it as a massively red letter day, virtually a feeling of euphoria. This euthyroid is the way I felt for the rest of my life  the first 45 years until the diseases started. Just able to function and feeling well. So my T4 is slightly high, and I should therefore not have hypo symptoms, which I do still have – feeling suddenly sleepy at any time and falling asleep for an hour or two. (Yet I have insomnia late at night, and spells of hyper, surging, too much unuseable adrenaline coursing through me). Swelling feet and legs, no appetite, hair falling out in my brush and when I wash it in huge clumps, trouble with digestion when I do eat, but the number one hypo symptom I have day and night is freezing cold, shivering, every day, unrelated to the temperature, that nothing will warm up until it passes. It’s an internal thing.  The constant tremors are not always shivering from cold…sometimes I have them together. These are NOT hyper symptoms so why would I think the dose was too high? My basal temperataure, when I get up, has ranged from 97.3 to 98.2, which I believe is normal according to Dr. Broda Barnes. One would think my dose was good. In the past the temperature was in the 96 range, and yet I felt better then, at a lower dose, though I had the hypo symptoms. Someone posted the query, which would you rather be – hypo or hyper? Choosing between them is something I have always had to do, and each one becomes horrific, causing me to go the other way for a time. Can this constant seesawing be causing the new problems? If one has to choose, hypo is less debilitating and life-destroying. One gets fat with painful joints, and slow, and placid, and confused, but there is a calm. And yet, then one is wistful for the energetic bursts, relative fit body and occasional clear thinking one did have even with the accompanying high anxiety, nervous state. As I am trying to explain, now I seem to be both hyper and hypo, but the test says slightly hyper. Besides the T4 test I had an FSH test. A year or so ago it was still normal, 22, now it is 47, which is out of range. Though I have had perimenopausal symptoms – severe ones, and all of them, for 6 years now, my tests were always in the normal range until now. So he gave me estrogen – CES, a ‘natural’ plant based one. He said more women were against Premarin now (which I used to be, but now I don’t care – I just want relief). I will take them, what else can I do? Hoping it will help. I studied this 3 or 4 years ago and was even given both Premarin and CES by doctors at the time of my hot flashes but I did not have good results and stopped them. Now that the hormone levels have changed maybe this is the answer. Does anyone have experience with CES? I have become a querulous, middle aged woman whom no one wants to know about, I suddenly realized in his office when facing his contempt and his lack of sympathy for me as a person, and his dismissing my complete worsening in the last 2 months…..his restating what he always states: "We’ll have to see if this gets the thyroid in range…" In ten years nothing has worked, and currently I am worse than ever before. My health has deteriorated drastically since around last October. The pains, weakness, unsteadiness, tremor are considered ‘essential tremor’ by a neurologist, and fibromyalgia by a rheumatologist, but there is NO treatment for these…until I take the .88 T4 for a while and if I don’t improve then my g.p. will give me a form of propanolol. This is the same thing I took when I first got Graves’ disease in 1989 and before the radiation. Why is this happening? If the T4 level is so  high then why not just stop the thyroid and become completely hypothyroid, that will calm me and make me placid like a cow, and overweight….which is what happened last year, i basically had ONLY intense muscle pain and hot flashes most of the time. No anxiety or heart pounding attacks, tremors or shivering. I don’t MIND hot flashes. I wish that was all I did have again. I learned to accept and deal with them. I cannot deal with a head tremor and weak muscles. Even my jaw feels sprained after chewing; I cannot hold a cup with one hand. If 100 was such a massive dose that it makes me hyper, then why the combined symptoms which include hypo items like hair loss, cold, confusion, cognitive problems with words and memory, and the rest? My God, I am at the end of my rope, and other than an expensive holistic doctor or naturopath, who might have an insight and might just be a quack, there is nowhere else to turn. It is not a simple matter to change doctors. I can barely stand to go to the ones I do have, that already know my complicated case. It is an ordeal, as everything is such an effort now. But my mind objects, wanting a way out of this nightmare. There surely is a first cause somewhere….the only one I know of is the Graves’ disease, the hyperthyroid suddenly in 1989. Everything else followed. I’ve said this before, I was an energetic, smart, normal looking and successful working mother with many friends and a full life and unbounded energy. And after the treatment I still functioned until 1996 when my body just began to be unable to function. The menopausal stuff began in 1994 and yes I did get worse after that, but nothing helped, and by 1996 I was too disabled to work. Four years now have been lost from my life because of iatrogenic disease. My psychiatrist says it is iatrogenic – doctor-caused. Wrong treatment, wrong pills. I no longer have a thyroid, and nothing replaces it correctly. He just listens to me – he cannot help the physical things and the doctors will not. He gives me Xanax, but i worry that it only makes it worse in the long run, causing rebound anxiety when not taken, as it messes up the GABA receptors in the brain. Yet, I guess I will still rely on it for the worst of the spells I have. Without any thyroid of course I cannot survive, but no combination or amount has worked for long, and these other worse conditions have happened one after another including 3 root canals needed for abcesses in the last year, and continued tooth pain. Despite no sugar in my diet for a year. I read in a doctor’s waiting room once that estrogen is used for every part of the body including the teeth. If that is the case could my tooth problems, nerve problems and the rest all be part of the menopause? I was once an expert on this, I wrote a paper on it that was published to high praise, and now I am too confused to figure it out, as nothing makes sense anymore, and my case does not fit any I read about. I don’t even have hot flashes most of the time and they were not a serious problem for me, in retrospect. I do periodically for a few months and then none. The cold spells and shivering are the thing now. And that totally indicates more thyroid needed, and yet the test shows no, I have even excess T4 in the blood. Any ideas, please, would be welcome. I also have fibromyalgia, and iGa nephropathy, both considered nothing by the medical profession, but those were the diagnoses. I live with constant back pain, but that does not affect my life the way the lack of stable hormones does. I lost 35 pounds since last May, when I deliberately lowered my food intake and did yoga. I continue at the lower weight, but do not lose more as I eat everything I feel like now since I so seldom have any appetite and since food causes indigestion. I felt better when I was obese, but I didn’t like the way I looked. Was it a mistake to diet? I no longer have knee problems, as my doctor promised when the weight came off, and my heel spur also went away. If being obese would restore my stable constitution though I’d do it again, except I am now unable to overeat to the required extent, my digestion won’t allow it. I was told to take Xanax, in November, for the attacks of heart pounding and surging which started in October out of the blue. I took it only sporadically as needed for the worst, then was told to take it every day once the tremors became a daily problem, no matter how I felt, but that did not eliminate the tremors. It just makes me apathetic and totally cut off from the world, mentally it shuts down the brain, which no longer cares. As I don’t like that feeling, I don’t take it in big doses as recommended. I wondered if any of this new stuff was really xanax withdrawal or reaction, as it is known to be highly addictive even … read more »

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Question:

‘Nother meds question– I was just wondering if anyone else has ever taken serzone. I started taking antid*pr*ssants about four years ago, when I hit a colossal d*pr*ssion, and was first prescribed prozac. I stayed on that for about six months, and although the d*pr*ssion remained, it seemed ~slightly~ more controlable; but the amazing thing that seemed to happen with the prozac was that I could actually read again! However, after a while, I started thinking that there must be something better than this. I was still d*pr*ssed, still failing school, still barely functional. So, I went on "The Great Med Quest." I tried everything, and nothing seemed to help me with what I was looking for– something to help me be more functional, and to help me to concentrate enough to be able to read and to focus enough to do my coursework. After ritalin, wellbutrin, zoloft, effexor, and others which I have forgotten, I went back on prozac, because at least I had been able to read when I was on it before. I took it for about a year– going up to sixty and sometimes eighty mg’s a day. I pretended that I was not d*pr*ssed anymore, and I could still barely focus. A little over a month ago I woke up, and realized exactly how d*pr*ssed I was. A couple of days later, I found myself in the h*sp*t*l. I asked my p to change meds, so he said that my options were either serzone or paxil, and that that was it, there wasn’t anything else for me to take. However, the side effects with the serzone seem incredible. I have only been taking it for a few weeks, and pretty irregularly due to the side effects– i.e. if I choose to take it on a given day, I can expect not to be able to drive, walk straight, eat, or sleep for less than fourteen hours. However, I feel like this is kind of my last hope of ever feeling "normal." I wonder if I just took it regularly for a few weeks and rode the side effects through if they would eventually disappear and the meds would end up helping me. Has anybody had serzone work for them? … Or what about paxil? Any advice, words of wisdom, suggestions, etc, desparately sought… Erica

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ‘Nother meds question– I was just wondering if anyone else has ever taken serzone. I started taking antid*pr*ssants about four years ago, when I hit a colossal d*pr*ssion, and was first prescribed prozac. I stayed on that for about six months, and although the d*pr*ssion remained, it seemed ~slightly~ more controlable; but the amazing thing that seemed to happen with the prozac was that I could actually read again! However, after a while, I started thinking that there must be something better than this. I was still d*pr*ssed, still failing school, still barely functional. So, I went on "The Great Med Quest." I tried everything, and nothing seemed to help me with what I was looking for– something to help me be more functional, and to help me to concentrate enough to be able to read and to focus enough to do my coursework. After ritalin, wellbutrin, zoloft, effexor, and others which I have forgotten, I went back on prozac, because at least I had been able to read when I was on it before. I took it for about a year– going up to sixty and sometimes eighty mg’s a day. I pretended that I was not d*pr*ssed anymore, and I could still barely focus. A little over a month ago I woke up, and realized exactly how d*pr*ssed I was. A couple of days later, I found myself in the h*sp*t*l. I asked my p to change meds, so he said that my options were either serzone or paxil, and that that was it, there wasn’t anything else for me to take. However, the side effects with the serzone seem incredible. I have only been taking it for a few weeks, and pretty irregularly due to the side effects– i.e. if I choose to take it on a given day, I can expect not to be able to drive, walk straight, eat, or sleep for less than fourteen hours. However, I feel like this is kind of my last hope of ever feeling "normal." I wonder if I just took it regularly for a few weeks and rode the side effects through if they would eventually disappear and the meds would end up helping me. Has anybody had serzone work for them? … Or what about paxil? Any advice, words of wisdom, suggestions, etc, desparately sought… Erica

Hi Erica, I was on paxil for about 2 months last year. I found that it lifted the depression to a degree, but the side effects (lack of sleep, tremor, feeling really agitated and unbelievable night-mares every night), were out-weighing the anti-depressant function. These tablets are hard to gauge though. One fits some-one but doesn’t fit the other person. It’s all a matter of trial and error as you seem to know. I thought that I would never find a med to alleviate some of my more severe symptoms, but this year have found an old tri-cyclic that seems to be doing a pretty good job….and I went through the whole range too…. Good luck… Hope you find something that helps you… Grace

Response:

i took serazone for a while, ttwice acctually, the first time it worked really well for me (i had less side effects than i did on prozac), and i went off meds entirely after a whille.  then i went back on it not too long ago, and the side effectts weren’t too bad until my time sense left and i didn’t realize how many doses i had missed…  for me, if i’ve missed doses i get really bad side effects unless i taper back on the same way as if i was just starting it. different people react better to different meds, and there may not be one currently that will really work for you (i hope there is one). good luck elf

Response:

I also took Serzone for a while.  I had the simular side affect the if I missed a dose, I would get really sick in taking the next dose unless I tapered myself back on it. Other than that I had no side effects, but fro me it didn’t help with my depression.  It was the last hope for me because I’d been on Effexor,Prozac, Zoloft, Paxil, tricyclics, MAOI’s. The only thin I haven’t tried is Remeron (sp). But none of the docs will even consider it. Margaret i took serazone for a while, ttwice acctually, the first time it worked really well for me (i had less side effects than i did on prozac), and i went off meds entirely after a whille.  then i went back on it not too long ago, and the side effectts weren’t too bad until my time sense left and i didn’t realize how many doses i had missed…  for me, if i’ve missed doses i get really bad side effects unless i taper back on the same way as if i was just starting it. different people react better to different meds, and there may not be one currently that will really work for you (i hope there is one). good luck elf

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Hi Erica, hihi, Grace  = ) I was on paxil for about 2 months last year. I found that it lifted the depression to a degree, but the side effects (lack of sleep, tremor, feeling really agitated and unbelievable night-mares every night), were out-weighing the anti-depressant function.

that sux. i thnk that that is what zoloft did when i was on it… These tablets are hard to gauge though. One fits some-one but doesn’t fit the other person. It’s all a matter of trial and error as you seem to know.

yeah, i know = … i wish it were easier I thought that I would never find a med to alleviate some of my more severe symptoms, but this year have found an old tri-cyclic that seems to be doing a pretty good job….and I went through the whole range too…. Good luck… Hope you find something that helps you… Grace

thank you = ) erica "… I’m just having thoughts of Marianne she could outrun the fastest slug she could Marianne quickest girl in the frying pan"

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