Question:

I just switched physicians.  I just got another cold, and I’ve had enough.  The next time I have an appointment with him I’m going to speak to him about switching back to Vanceril.  It’s less convenient (4x/day), but I’d rather not deal with the side effects of Aerobid anymore.  Or the taste of it, for that matter.  :-)

Suggestion:  Pulmicort ™ (brand of budesonide) has been approved by the FDA for use in the United States, although it may not yet be commonly available.  It is quite a bit stronger than Aerobid ™ (brand of flunisolide).  You might try asking your doctor to try you on Pulmicort ™. I’ve been on it for over a year with zero problems. (However, I am adrenally insufficient, and had to have both hips replaced, because of long-term prednisone.  I am currently on hydrocortisone replacement therapy.  Your mileage may vary.)

Response:

I’ve been on Aerobid inhaler (4 puffs in the morning and 4 at night) for two years. I have not suffered an asthma attack since. However, I noticed that often after inhaling Aerobid, I get very nervous, jittery, irritable and begin to tremble. Supposedly, Aerobid, an inhaled steroid, should not

Since stopping with freon propelled inhilators I no longer get the shakes. Also, my asthma is much better to the point that I am convinced that the propellant was aggravating my asthma. I now use Bricanyl and Pulmicort both of which are from ASTRA pharma Inc . in Mississauga, Ontario. These are packaged in "turbuhalers" which are breath activated. That is, by breathing in the medication in powder form is picked up. I will never use inhilators with propellants again.

Response:

(JSterl7511) writes: I’ve been on Aerobid inhaler (4 puffs in the morning and 4 at night) for two years. I have not suffered an asthma attack since. However, I noticed that often after inhaling Aerobid, I get very nervous, jittery, irritable and begin to tremble. Supposedly, Aerobid, an inhaled steroid, should not cause these symptoms which are often associated with injected, oral tablets or other systemic steroids.

False!  While systemic effects are uncommon, they are *not* unheard of. According to the manufacturer’s own package insert that comes with the

Aerobid inhaler: Adverse reactions reported include "nervous system" effects: dizziness, irritability, nervousness, shakiness (incidence 3-9%).  You should ask your doctor or pharmacist for this package insert and read it yourself, or consult the PDR. I use Aerobid inhaler myself–and I’ve had problems too: Ever since I started on Aerobid last year, I’ve had many more colds,

averaging about 1 cold every 8 weeks!  (Before starting Aerobid I used to get only 2-3 colds per year.)  And sure enough, the reported incidence of "cold symptoms" is 15%, and "upper respiratory infection" is 25% !  If this is a side effect of Aerobid, it’s a nasty one for me because those colds all exacerbate my asthma for weeks. I used to be on Vanceril before this.  From my comparison of the package

inserts and other references I’ve consulted, I have concluded that Aerobid seems to have a greater incidence of systemic side effects than Vanceril does. I just switched physicians.  I just got another cold, and I’ve had

enough.  The next time I have an appointment with him I’m going to speak to him about switching back to Vanceril.  It’s less convenient (4x/day), but I’d rather not deal with the side effects of Aerobid anymore.  Or the taste of it, for that matter.  :-) Why does AeroBid list so many side effects [adverse events] in their package insert and the PDR? FACT:  AeroBid was approved by the FDA in 1984, just after the mandate from FDA that ALL adverse events, whether directly associated with the drug or not, be listed. Thus, Vanceril, Beclovent and Azmacort – all approved by FDA prior to the mandate, do not list such occurrences. Flovent (fluticasone), recently approved by FDA, also lists all adverse events in their package insert. Pulmicort (budesonide),  has been submitted to FDA and received an ‘approvable letter’ in June ‘96 but not yet approved, will also list all adverse events. Thus, AeroBid has no greater side effect risk than does Vanceril, Beclovent or Azmacort. The same can be said about Flovent and Pulmicort. A suggestion that may help to reduce or even eliminate systemic related effects of AeroBid (including taste) or any inhaled steroid is to try an AeroChamber. This is a holding chamber (spacer device) that has been shown to reduce the amount of drug that ends up in the mouth and throat by six fold, without impairing the small drug particle availability which actually navigates to the lower airways and provides the topical benefit of inhaled steroid (antiinflammatory) therapy. If you have been on a 2000 mcg (8 puffs daily) dose for 2 years without an asthma attack, try the AeroChamber before changing horses, so to say. Tim Wood

Response:

I’ve been on Aerobid inhaler (4 puffs in the morning and 4 at night) for two years. I have not suffered an asthma attack since. However, I noticed that often after inhaling Aerobid, I get very nervous, jittery, irritable and begin to tremble. Supposedly, Aerobid, an inhaled steroid, should not cause these symptoms which are often associated with injected, oral tablets or other systemic steroids. Anyone else experience these problems with Aerobid? What did you do? Cut down the dosage or move onto another medication. I’d appreciate hearing from someone with similar experience. Thanks. John  Sterling

Response:

I’ve been on Aerobid inhaler (4 puffs in the morning and 4 at night) for two years. I have not suffered an asthma attack since. However, I noticed that often after inhaling Aerobid, I get very nervous, jittery, irritable and begin to tremble. Supposedly, Aerobid, an inhaled steroid, should not cause these symptoms which are often associated with injected, oral tablets or other systemic steroids.

False!  While systemic effects are uncommon, they are *not* unheard of. According to the manufacturer’s own package insert that comes with the Aerobid inhaler: Adverse reactions reported include "nervous system" effects: dizziness, irritability, nervousness, shakiness (incidence 3-9%).  You should ask your doctor or pharmacist for this package insert and read it yourself, or consult the PDR. Anyone else experience these problems with Aerobid? What did you do?

I use Aerobid inhaler myself–and I’ve had problems too: Ever since I started on Aerobid last year, I’ve had many more colds, averaging about 1 cold every 8 weeks!  (Before starting Aerobid I used to get only 2-3 colds per year.)  And sure enough, the reported incidence of "cold symptoms" is 15%, and "upper respiratory infection" is 25% !  If this is a side effect of Aerobid, it’s a nasty one for me because those colds all exacerbate my asthma for weeks. I used to be on Vanceril before this.  From my comparison of the package inserts and other references I’ve consulted, I have concluded that Aerobid seems to have a greater incidence of systemic side effects than Vanceril does. I just switched physicians.  I just got another cold, and I’ve had enough.  The next time I have an appointment with him I’m going to speak to him about switching back to Vanceril.  It’s less convenient (4x/day), but I’d rather not deal with the side effects of Aerobid anymore.  Or the taste of it, for that matter.  :-) — Steven D. Litvintchouk                  "There seems to be no mainframe Disclaimer:  As far as I am aware,       in which we’re living." the opinions expressed herein                 — President Bill Clinton are not those of my employer.

Response:

Question:

This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I don’t understand your doctor’s comment on Accolate at all. In my case I was having fairly frequent episodes where walking 100′ was simply impossible and just getting out of bed and going to the bathroom did make me quite out of breath.  Prednisone was the only thing that worked for me.  Then *after* I started taking Accolate all of that went away completely. I have cats, I’m allergic to dust mites and molds as well.  They don’t have much effect anymore.  Cigarette smoke still does but it has to be really thick for that to happen. I’ve even had a sinus infection after that and it didn’t trigger the asthma at all.  For me, Accolate provided the control that nothing else had.  I still use Serevent once in a while (like on foggy days or when it rains) and I tend to use Albuterol before I exercise but I haven’t needed any rescue meds since I started the Accolate.  I did use Flovent 220 while I had the sinus infection though. Basically since it was Accolate that gave me the control I have no idea what your doctor meant.  You do have to be consistent about taking it though and it does take some time (it took me 3-4 months) to be fully effective. Loki – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Last week Wednesday I had to call 911 to take me to the hospital due to an asthma attack.  I have had asthma for about 6 or so years and it has several triggers including animal dander (I have 4 cats and get my shots), dust, and mold.  The night before I had cleaned out some cupboards in which water had leaked and I think I must have gotten a good breath of mold, since that night was uncomfortable for me and the following morning I had to turn back from the subway and return home to have my wife call 911. This was the first time that I had to be hospitalized although I have had a couple of bad attacks. The EMTs gave me two nebulized albuterols and then shipped me to the ER. There they gave me some more along with Salmeterol, magnesium, and other such. They also did a chest X-ray.   When I didn’t clear quite as quickly or fully as they liked they suggested I be admitted.  My peak flow at that point was 400 but I was still wheezing.  I stayed overnight and got a perscription for a week of prednisone (4-2-2-1-1-1 ). When I contacted my Dr. he felt that they had been too cautious and if I could walk 100′, go to the bathroom by myself, all without getting out of breath, then I should not have been admitted.  He also had asked why I had started with Accolate (my ussual "poison" is Aerobid and Seravent)?  I had gotten on that after some questions with my Allergist and hoped that it might allow me to take less medication on a regular basis. Here is the kicker … My Dr. said that Accolate isn’t really for the sort of asthma control I wanted.  That it was for keeping asthma from "exacerbating". He recommended I stop taking it, at least till a followup visit since it actually may have been partly responsible for my attack. I would be interested in anyone’s comment about the use of Accolate, my Dr.’s statements and anything else.   The attack was QUITE frightening, the hospital stay was at the least dull, but at the same time agravating, if it was unecessary! "Americans, while occasionally willing to be serfs, have always been obstinate about being peasantry." F.Scott Fitzgerald

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Response:

Last week Wednesday I had to call 911 to take me to the hospital due to an asthma attack.  I have had asthma for about 6 or so years and it has several triggers including animal dander (I have 4 cats and get my shots), dust, and mold.  The night before I had cleaned out some cupboards in which water had leaked and I think I must have gotten a good breath of mold, since that night was uncomfortable for me and the following morning I had to turn back from the subway and return home to have my wife call 911. This was the first time that I had to be hospitalized although I have had a couple of bad attacks. The EMTs gave me two nebulized albuterols and then shipped me to the ER. There they gave me some more along with Salmeterol, magnesium, and other such. They also did a chest X-ray.   When I didn’t clear quite as quickly or fully as they liked they suggested I be admitted.  My peak flow at that point was 400 but I was still wheezing.  I stayed overnight and got a perscription for a week of prednisone (4-2-2-1-1-1 ).   When I contacted my Dr. he felt that they had been too cautious and if I could walk 100′, go to the bathroom by myself, all without getting out of breath, then I should not have been admitted.  He also had asked why I had started with Accolate (my ussual "poison" is Aerobid and Seravent)?  I had gotten on that after some questions with my Allergist and hoped that it might allow me to take less medication on a regular basis. Here is the kicker … My Dr. said that Accolate isn’t really for the sort of asthma control I wanted.  That it was for keeping asthma from "exacerbating". He recommended I stop taking it, at least till a followup visit since it actually may have been partly responsible for my attack. I would be interested in anyone’s comment about the use of Accolate, my Dr.’s statements and anything else.   The attack was QUITE frightening, the hospital stay was at the least dull, but at the same time agravating, if it was unecessary! "Americans, while occasionally willing to be serfs, have always been obstinate about being peasantry." F.Scott Fitzgerald

Response:

Question:

We’ve done it, traded in the fifth wheel for a park model.  The dealer says he cannot find a source for a 150 gallon holding tank to put under it.  He used to get them for about $150.  Another dealer we are not enamored of, (where we did not buy the park model) says he can sell us one for $750, which seems completely ridiculous.  There mustbe someplace to get a reasonable price on a 150 gallon holding tank, anybody aware of where that might be? Romeo Raabe in Green Bay, WI

Response:

Check with El Monte Plastics, El Monte, California.  Or look up Northernhydraulics.com as I believe they have generic tanks at a reasonable price.  If that does not work, try Northerntools.com Steve

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We’ve done it, traded in the fifth wheel for a park model.  The dealer says he cannot find a source for a 150 gallon holding tank to put under it.  He used to get them for about $150.  Another dealer we are not enamored of, (where we did not buy the park model) says he can sell us one for $750, which seems completely ridiculous.  There mustbe someplace to get a reasonable price on a 150 gallon holding tank, anybody aware of where that might be? Romeo Raabe in Green Bay, WI

Response:

Question:

Theoretically the canisters should last 30 days, but I find them running low quicker than that.  So with Advair you wouldn’t have to worry about that.

Right 28 days with a counter which reduces after each dose,

Response:

there is a major advantage in patient compliance having only one product to use instead of two. Another advantage is that the dose is adjustable. – it comes in low and high doses. It seems that the attractive package does make it more patient compliant, as soon as he recovers from the sticker shock. Murray Grossan, M.D. http://www.ent-consult.com http://www.TinnitusRelief.net http://www.emedicine.com/ent/topic516.htm

Response:

My doctor told me the Advair was more expensive.   Is it really true that the Servent/Flovent is more expensive?  And, I’m talking about the real cost, not the fact that I’d have one copay instead of two. Another factor is, for me, I don’t get

Advair is more expensive versus one inhaler but if you add the Flovent inhaler and the Serevent inhaler they will be less.

Response:

 The final question is cost: does your health insurance cover Advair.

It should as you save around $30.00 by using the advair rather then the Flovent and Serevent separately.I would think if you presented this to the insurance people they would appreciate you trying to save them money.

Response:

 The final question is cost: does your health insurance cover Advair. It should as you save around $30.00 by using the advair rather then the Flovent and Serevent separately.I would think if you presented this to the insurance people they would appreciate you trying to save them money.

My doctor told me the Advair was more expensive.   Is it really true that the Servent/Flovent is more expensive?  And, I’m talking about the real cost, not the fact that I’d have one copay instead of two. Another factor is, for me, I don’t get the 120 doses per canister of Serevent and Flovent.  Theoretically the canisters should last 30 days, but I find them running low quicker than that.  So with Advair you wouldn’t have to worry about that.

Response:

Is there something about combining Flovent and Serevent into one package that is more effective than taking them separately?

There are two advantages. 1) The delivery system takes less kill/practice and since MDI technique is notoriously horrible it is hoped that the delivery will be better. 2) Cost. The Advair discuss is priced less than the two inhalers separately and if you pay by the copay it will probably be only one instead of two. — CBI, MD "Believe those who are seeking the truth; doubt those who find it." -Andre Gide

Response:

My doctor told me the Advair was more expensive.   Is it really true that the Servent/Flovent is more expensive?  And, I’m talking about the real cost, not the fact that I’d have one copay instead of two.

All prices are AWP (average wholesale price). Induhvidual indusurers may make special deals. That said: Advair is more expensive that either Flovent or Serevent alone but less expensive than both. Since the Pulmicort Turbuhaler has three months worth of medicine in each device it is less expensive than Flovent and the combo od Pulmicort and Serevent is about the same as Advair. Oc course, if it cuts two co-pays to one it is cheaper for you regardless of AWP. In my experience the only insurers that won’t pay for Advair also don’t pay for Serevent. Another factor is, for me, I don’t get the 120 doses per canister of Serevent and Flovent.  Theoretically the canisters should last 30 days, but I find them running low quicker than that.  So with Advair you wouldn’t have to worry about that.

Correct. Since it has a numerical counter and a delivery device that does not rely on gas pressures you would not have to guess exactly when it will run out either. — CBI, MD

Response:

Why all this hype about Advair?  All it is, is a combination of Flovent’s active ingredient + Serevent’s active ingredient, in a funny new package. Is there something about combining Flovent and Serevent into one package that is more effective than taking them separately? — Steven D. Litvintchouk                   Advair cuts down on number of inhalers used: from two to one. Also  the

delivery system is different: Advair uses a powder and Flovent is a mdi. If you have problems with an mdi, then, on that basis, the switch to advair could be indicated. The problem with Advair is that during an exacerbation you cannot vary the Advair dosage, you will have to supplement with Flovent in whatever strength is required. In terms of efficacy, from personal experience, I find no difference and this is supported by my pulmonologist.  The final question is cost: does your health insurance cover Advair. John – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Why all this hype about Advair?  All it is, is a combination of Flovent’s active ingredient + Serevent’s active ingredient, in a funny new package. Is there something about combining Flovent and Serevent into one package that is more effective than taking them separately?

According to my Pulmologist the powder form is more effective in getting into your lungs and does a better job.

Response:

Only a couple of differences. — It’s a dry powder inhaler, so no propellant to react to. — It’s one puff twice daily, not 2 each twice daily (i.e., 1 not 4, twice daily)  Helps compliance — There’s a counter on the device.  Helps keep track of when to replace. There were studies about it being more effective than just flovent, but I haven’t seen anything about it being better than the pair of medications prescribed separately.  Other than what’s listed above, it would appear to be a compliance issue.  I prefer it since I cough after taking the 4 puffs, but not after taking advair.  YMMV. Liam

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My pulmonologist wants to try switching me from Flovent to Advair. And I’ve heard so many other asthma and COPD patients praising Advair. Why all this hype about Advair?  All it is, is a combination of Flovent’s active ingredient + Serevent’s active ingredient, in a funny new package. Is there something about combining Flovent and Serevent into one package that is more effective than taking them separately? — Steven D. Litvintchouk

Response:

My pulmonologist wants to try switching me from Flovent to Advair. And I’ve heard so many other asthma and COPD patients praising Advair. Why all this hype about Advair?  All it is, is a combination of Flovent’s active ingredient + Serevent’s active ingredient, in a funny new package. Is there something about combining Flovent and Serevent into one package that is more effective than taking them separately? — Steven D. Litvintchouk                  

Response:

Question:

I do not take that medication but I did used to have tingling in my extremities. They said that when I was having a problem breathing that I would get scared and start to hyperventilate. This causes the tingling in the legs, feet, arms, hands and face. This may be your problem but I would seriously talk to you doctor about it. Shannon

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve noticed on this newsgroup that many Singulair users have muscle cramps as a side effect of taking that medication. But, has any noticed numbness or tingling in the arms or legs while taking Singulair.   I’ve had tingling and numbness in my left foot for about the past month.  Is this a serious side effect of Singulair and should I stop taking it? Thanks! Dot

Response:

Hello Dot, I took Singulair for about 45 days.  The doctor finally switched me to Accolate because of tingling in my arms and legs, and a general feeling of disorientation.  Accolate does not have that adverse effect on me.  One thing interesting I just noted on the information sheet with my Flovent prescription, is to report immediately to the doctor any toxic side effects, such as tingling or numbness in extremities. Best of luck, Patrice – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve noticed on this newsgroup that many Singulair users have muscle cramps as a side effect of taking that medication. But, has any noticed numbness or tingling in the arms or legs while taking Singulair.   I’ve had tingling and numbness in my left foot for about the past month.  Is this a serious side effect of Singulair and should I stop taking it? Thanks! Dot

Response:

I’ve noticed on this newsgroup that many Singulair users have muscle cramps as a side effect of taking that medication. But, has any noticed numbness or tingling in the arms or legs while taking Singulair.   I’ve had tingling and numbness in my left foot for about the past month.  Is this a serious side effect of Singulair and should I stop taking it?

Please talk to your doctor.  Tingling and numbness can have a lot of sources, some of them quite serious.  IAC, do not stop taking medications without talking to your doctor about it first. Chris Owens

Response:

Hi!    Tingling and numbness could be caused my other things, such as Myopathy or Neuropathy.  It does not necessarily mean it is coming directly from the Singulair?  Are you taking other medications?  Muscle cramps sometimes come from using steroidal medications.  Are you using any lotions or creams? Sincerely, Sandy

Response:

I’ve noticed on this newsgroup that many Singulair users have muscle cramps as a side effect of taking that medication. But, has any noticed numbness or tingling in the arms or legs while taking Singulair.   I’ve had tingling and numbness in my left foot for about the past month.  Is this a serious side effect of Singulair and should I stop taking it? Thanks! Dot

Response:

Question:

Dave, I have never posted to a newsgroup before therefore don’t know how to add the relevant pieces of messages from previous posts but I feel I have very important information which will be helpful to some of your group. I live in the uk and I’m registered disabled due to (hereditary) deafness in both ears and wear hearing aids in both ears. I also have tinnitus although I don’t find it a major problem. My sister suffers from tinnitus and finds that there are certain noises which trigger an episode. She especially found it difficult when trying to get to sleep. Her doctor advised her of certain things to try. I  gave her the address of the (RNID) Royal National Institute for the Deaf which no-one else has ever mentioned to her (she’s not deaf and only hard of hearing if you ask her to PAY for something BUT she could hear a

Question:

commonly used slow serotonin reuptake inhibitor (SSRI)

ROTFL!  What a load of BS … —   -john

Response:

Recent studies have shown SJW to be equally as effective as Zoloft (sertraline) and Prozac (fluoxetine) in mild to moderate depression. It also seems to have a better side-effect profile. See the references below: – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – Equivalence of St John’s wort extract (Ze 117) and fluoxetine: a randomized, controlled study in mild-moderate depression. Schrader E Int Clin Psychopharmacol 2000 Mar;15(2):61-8 Treatment with St John’s wort extract tablets (hypericum Ze 117) and the commonly used slow serotonin reuptake inhibitor (SSRI) fluoxetine was compared in patients with mild-moderate depression with entry Hamilton Depression Scale (HAM-D) (21-item) in the range 16-24, in a randomized, double-blind, parallel group comparison in 240 subjects; fluoxetine: 114 (48%), hypericum: 126 (52%). After 6 weeks’ treatment, mean HAM-D at endpoint decreased to 11.54 on hypericum and to 12.20 on fluoxetine (P < 0.09), while mean Clinical Global Impression (CGI) item I (severity) was significantly (P < 0.03) superior on hypericum, as was the responder rate (P = 0.005). Hypericum safety was substantially superior to fluoxetine, with the incidence of adverse events being 23% on fluoxetine and 8% on hypericum. The commonest events on fluoxetine were agitation (8%), GI disturbances (6%), retching (4%), dizziness (4%), tiredness, anxiety/nervousness and erectile dysfunction (3% each), while on hypericum only GI disturbances (5%) had an incidence greater than 2%. We concluded that hypericum and fluoxetine are equipotent with respect to all main parameters used to investigate antidepressants in this population. Although hypericum may be superior in improving the responder rate, the main difference between the two treatments is safety. Hypericum was superior to fluoxetine in overall incidence of side-effects, number of patients with side-effects and the type of side-effect reported. – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – "Comparison of an extract of hypericum (LI 160) and sertraline in the treatment of depression: a double-blind, randomized pilot study." Brenner R, Azbel V, Madhusoodanan S, Pawlowska M Clin Ther 2000 Apr;22(4):411-9 BACKGROUND: Hypericum (St. John’s wort) has been shown to be as efficacious and well tolerated as standard antidepressants in the treatment of depression but has not been compared with selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs). OBJECTIVE: This study compared hypericum and the SSRI sertraline in the treatment of depression. METHODS: In a double-blind, randomized study conducted in a community hospital, 30 male and female outpatients (19 women, 11 men; mean age, 45.5 years) with mild to moderate depression received 600 mg/d of a standardized extract of hypericum (LI 160) or 50 mg/d sertraline for I week, followed by hypericum 900 mg/d or sertraline 75 mg/d for 6 weeks. RESULTS: The severity of symptoms, as assessed by scores on the Hamilton Rating Scale for Depression (HAM-D) and the Clinical Global Impression scale, was significantly reduced in both treatment groups (P < 0.01). Clinical response (defined as a or =50% reduction in HAM-D scores) was noted in 47% of patients receiving hypericum and 40% of those receiving sertraline. The difference was not statistically significant. Both agents were well tolerated. A post hoc power analysis indicated that failure to reach statistical significance between treatments resulted primarily from an absence of clinical differences rather than the small sample size. CONCLUSION: The hypericum extract was at least as effective as sertraline in the treatment of mild to moderate depression in a small group of outpatients.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The interesting thing with St. John’s Wort, is that it alters the ‘mood/mind’ enough to allow an objective and clear perspective of the Self. And therefore a clear insight into those parts of the Self that causes the depression. Is your intent to clear yourself of the depression?… or clear yourself of the sources of that depression? Translation: SJW is not strong enough to cure many cases of depression by itself, and works best with psychotherapy combination. By extension, an SSRI plus that kind of psychotherapy ought to be better yet? —

com for the reply address.

Response:

I am interested in info. on St. John’s Wort and Kava for OCD and anxiety.

Here is some info. I found on St. John’s Wort and OCD: "Gridrunner: Have you heard of some success using St. John’s Wort or 5-htp to lessen OCD? Dr. Jenike: Yes, there are a few cases where St. John’s Wort has helped OCD. In Germany, there are dozens of studies using SJW for mild to moderate depression, but its use for treating OCD is relatively new. I have tried it in quite a few patients, with not much success. But then again, most of the patients I see now, are on the more severe end of the spectrum." – http://www.healthyplace.com/Communities/OCD/site/transcripts/obsession s_ocd.htm See also: http://www.biopsychiatry.com/stjohnocd.htm

Response:

The interesting thing with St. John’s Wort, is that it alters the ‘mood/mind’ enough to allow an objective and clear perspective of the Self. And therefore a clear insight into those parts of the Self that causes the depression. Is your intent to clear yourself of the depression?… or clear yourself of the sources of that depression?

Translation: SJW is not strong enough to cure many cases of depression by itself, and works best with psychotherapy combination. By extension, an SSRI plus that kind of psychotherapy ought to be better yet? —

Response:

Dear R.P.,      I have used Kava for anxiety and it does help though if your anxiety is high it may take a few days for it to really catch up with you.  To be on it is to be mellow but alert at the same time so I think it would help with OCD.                    Rusty

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am interested in info. on St. John’s Wort and Kava for OCD and anxiety. Thank you.

Response:

I am interested in info. on St. John’s Wort and Kava for OCD and anxiety. Thank you.

Response:

I am interested in info. on St. John’s Wort and Kava for OCD and anxiety. Thank you.

I had a lot of luck with Kava Kava for anxiety, but it brought back eczema that had lain dormant for over 6 years (and which I have yet to get rid of). Take care if you have any dermatological problems.

Response:

My psychiatrist said it was useless for OCD. Only good for *mild* depression. Ida

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am interested in info. on St. John’s Wort and Kava for OCD and anxiety. Thank you.

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In article <   "Bill & Ida Kern" < My psychiatrist said it was useless for OCD. Only good for *mild* depression. Ida

The interesting thing with St. John’s Wort, is that it alters the ‘mood/mind’ enough to allow an objective and clear perspective of the Self. And therefore a clear insight into those parts of the Self that causes the depression. Is your intent to clear yourself of the depression?… or clear yourself of the sources of that depression? The Wort (like LSD; magic mushrooms; kava-kava) open-up the psyche for deeper investigation… rather than offer a cure-all. Later Gerrit

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says… It hardly seems fair that those who guard our health do so at this kind of price. Without blaming all such woes on lifestyle, I do wish doctoring were a less heroic and more comfortable thing. Good luck — Julianne

In Australia, we don’t tend to glorify doctors — at least general practitioners.In many ways it’s just another job. This has its advantages and disadvantages. People don’t believe we are superhuman; they feel free to ask us questions if they don’t understand something. I’m sure if you scratch any American doctor, you’d find a patient of some type; and also a person — unless you’ve begun cloning your MDs (which, from reading some of the stories here, I would believe!) Ciao, Raymot ======= Brisbane, Australia [[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[

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It hardly seems fair that those who guard our health do so at this kind of price. Without blaming all such woes on lifestyle, I do wish doctoring were a less heroic and more comfortable thing. Good luck — Julianne

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Hi All, Ok, here’s the post about my headaches. I have always had tension headaches. I used to be rarely without them — just sometimes they were worse than others. I’ve tried all sorts of medications over the years — and being a physician myself, I can prescribe for myself what I think I need (except for narcotics, and controlled drugs). This year my headaches have dramatically reduced, I think due to several reasons. Firstly, I decided not to feel guilty about self-prescribing the drugs I needed. Secondly, I got a second opinion about not feeling guilty about self- prescribing the drugs I needed. The drugs I’m taking are Zoloft (sertraline) 100mg/day, Xanax (alprazolam) 1mg/day (a small dose, but it works), and Digesic (dextropropoxyphene + paracetamol) as necessary (usually ~ 3-4/day) Adequate and regular sleep is essential for me. I am using a mouth splint at night (to stop snoring and to stop teeth-grinding). This really helps lessen the headaches, and is as important as the drugs. After having a $300 splint fall apart, I made one myself out of a $7.95 sports mouthguard. The essential features are that it stops the bruxism, and acts as a mandibular advancement splint (insofar as I have an overbite, and with the splint I can’t close my teeth together fully, so my airway stays more open.) I also believe the texture of the splint takes some pressure off the clenching muscles — temporalis and masseters etc. It’s springy and pushes back. I’m really amazed at the difference a hunk of rubber between my teeth at nighttime can make to the severity of those waking headaches. In order of importance, I would say the following factors have contributed to the significant improvement in my tension headaches: 1) Zoloft;  2) Mouth splint at night;  3) Xanax;   4) Adequate Sleep; 5) Digesic – Analgesics. Note, this is only a personal story. It won’t work for everyone, and I’m not suggesting it in the capacity of a physician. But it’s worked for me and I can honestly say that I can go for most of the day without a headache sometimes! Ciao, Raymot ======= Brisbane, Australia [[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[

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In _The Essential Guide to Psychiatric Drugs_, Jack Gorman says that it has been reported that Klonopin causes depression.  Anyone have any experience with this side effect?

This all gets so confusing to me as I once was on K alone but can’t say that that caused my depression.  I read alot about this side effect and guess I never paid attention for direct cause and effect. What about those taking it with an SSRI, for depression (the thought being that the SSRI might "insulate" against this potential side effect)?

I take a low dose of PAxil and now Xanax as well and things don’t really feel that much different to me.  I have my good and bad days.  I have never heard of taking an SRI to counteract a benzo – have heard the reverse tho. I certainly wouldn’t take an SRI for that – as there are many other benzos to choose from without this noted side effect. Gwen

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In _The Essential Guide to Psychiatric Drugs_, Jack Gorman says that it has been reported that Klonopin causes depression.  Anyone have any experience with this side effect?  What about those taking it with an SSRI, for depression (the thought being that the SSRI might "insulate" against this potential side effect)? Thanks for your help. Matt

I have heard that Klonopin can aggravate depression in a "small" percentage of people.  People have also reported depression, as a side effect to placebo.  Sometimes as much as 3%.  So without knowing the percentages of reported depression with Klonopin vs. placebo, it is almost the same as having no information at all. I was on an SSRI, before ever taking Klonopin.  I noted less depression after taking it, as my depression was situational.  I was depressed because I was having 3-4 full blown panic attacks per day.  When the PA’s stopped, from taking the Klonopin, my mood improved dramatically. — Kiesha Van Dyke To e-mail, remove ** from address.

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I was on an SSRI, before ever taking Klonopin.  I noted less depression after taking it, as my depression was situational.  I was depressed because I was having 3-4 full blown panic attacks per day.  When the PA’s stopped, from taking the Klonopin, my mood improved dramatically. —

I have to agree with you here, Kiesha.  I didn’t go the SSRI first route – but being out of control on the panic was certainly depressing as hell and I truly believe if the docs had increased the benzos as first choice – I wouldn’t be saddled with Paxil now.  I know from my experience that being free of panic makes me jubillant beyond beleif.  I wish more docs tried THAT route first before jumping on the SSRI bandwagon. Gwen

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In _The Essential Guide to Psychiatric Drugs_, Jack Gorman says that it has been reported that Klonopin causes depression.  Anyone have any experience with this side effect?  What about those taking it with an SSRI, for depression (the thought being that the SSRI might "insulate" against this potential side effect)? Thanks for your help. Matt

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Hi Matt – Well – I think Gorman may be right.  My experience has been that adding an SSRI *has* eliminated the depression I felt when taking Klonopin (4-4.5mg/day) alone. (Added Zoloft).  This is for primary social phobia, secondary mild depression.  I think the Klonopin *may* aggrevate my mild depression some. Zoloft 50mg + K worked well except side effects – VERY tired and sex side effects from Zoloft. Nardil 45mg + K worked well too – less side effects, except add in food restrictions. Luvox + K felt awful. JR

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In _The Essential Guide to Psychiatric Drugs_, Jack Gorman says that it has been reported that Klonopin causes depression.  Anyone have any experience with this side effect?  What about those taking it with an SSRI, for depression (the thought being that the SSRI might "insulate" against this potential side effect)? Thanks for your help. Matt

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Hi Matt – Well – I think Gorman may be right.  My experience has been that adding an SSRI *has* eliminated the depression I felt when taking Klonopin (4-4.5mg/day) alone. (Added Zoloft).  This is for primary social phobia, secondary mild depression.  I think the Klonopin *may* aggrevate my mild depression some. Zoloft 50mg + K worked well except side effects – VERY tired and sex side effects from Zoloft. Nardil 45mg + K worked well too – less side effects, except add in food restrictions. Luvox + K felt awful. JR   JR

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In _The Essential Guide to Psychiatric Drugs_, Jack Gorman says that it has been reported that Klonopin causes depression.  Anyone have any experience with this side effect?  What about those taking it with an SSRI, for depression (the thought being that the SSRI might "insulate" against this potential side effect)? Thanks for your help. Matt

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Erica– I am also Bulimiarexic…and 15 and on Zoloft and have not had my period for a year and a half. I don’t know about you but my Zoloft doesn’t seem to be helping at all. I think I might start on something different. I am on 175mgs a day now. How much are you on?? I haven’t had birth control pills suggested to me to restore my period but I wouldn’t want them. I hated my period. It is such a mess and a pain. This doesn’t mean I’m afraid of it I just like not having to deal with it.

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Laurie asked: Should I be worried though? I want my "good enough" to not be life-threatening, you know? Am I doing ANYTHING good for myself??

Laurie, You are doing some good things for yourself.  You are taking classes.  You are searching for answers in your life.  You are writing. If you want your "good enough" to not be life threatening you have got to start eating more. Straight out spoilered for dead on painful stuff. s   p     o       i         l           e             r Laurie, if you don’t have periods you are threatening the life of any children you might have in the future.  What does that mean?  It means that someday when your arms ache to hold a baby you won’t be able to.  It means that someday when you share your life with someone and you want your body to hold life inside it, to let it grow inside you, to nourish it from yourself you won’t be able to.  So Laurie, ask yourself.  Is it "good enough"? Mary

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Oui, my doctor wanted me to take BC pills (i’m 16, a virgin) to get my period again, I said NO WAY. Just the thought of it makes me feel ‘unclean’ (is that weird?). I am taking Zoloft, though. I have had my first two panic attacks ON it, I never had one when I wasn’t taking it… Odd… I wouold appreciate feedback from other bulimarexics taking Zoloft- side effects, etc. Merci beaucuop. Erica

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -for awhile i was on birth control pills to "motivate" my body to have a period. has anyone else done this?  i hated taking them (hated having a period) and i don’t need them now (for either of their purposes!)  but, i’m sooooo scared of getting osteoporosis that i was very good about taking them–i hate taking meds. just an fyi for the general public:  i’m taking a science of nutrition class (which i don’t suggest for anyone struggling.  it’s been tough disassociating the class from my ed…but that’s another subject).  anyway, we just finished up talking about calcuim.  the worst kind of supplements you can take are oyster shell–they’re literally ground up oyster shells, so there’s no way to know exactly what’s in them.  the best (according to my prof) are tums–they’re the cheapest and absorb the easiest.  everyone happy with their nutrition lesson for the day?

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Why has the nutrition class been triggering? (besides the obvious answer that it’s all about food) Sarah – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – for awhile i was on birth control pills to "motivate" my body to have a period. has anyone else done this?  i hated taking them (hated having a period) and i don’t need them now (for either of their purposes!)  but, i’m sooooo scared of getting osteoporosis that i was very good about taking them–i hate taking meds. just an fyi for the general public:  i’m taking a science of nutrition class (which i don’t suggest for anyone struggling.  it’s been tough disassociating the class from my ed…but that’s another subject).  anyway, we just finished up talking about calcuim.  the worst kind of supplements you can take are oyster shell–they’re literally ground up oyster shells, so there’s no way to know exactly what’s in them.  the best (according to my prof) are tums–they’re the cheapest and absorb the easiest.  everyone happy with their nutrition lesson for the day?

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for awhile i was on birth control pills to "motivate" my body to have a period.  has anyone else done this?  i hated taking them (hated having a period) and i don’t need them now (for either of their purposes!)  but, i’m sooooo scared of getting osteoporosis that i was very good about taking them–i hate taking meds. just an fyi for the general public:  i’m taking a science of nutrition class (which i don’t suggest for anyone struggling.  it’s been tough disassociating the class from my ed…but that’s another subject).  anyway, we just finished up talking about calcuim.  the worst kind of supplements you can take are oyster shell–they’re literally ground up oyster shells, so there’s no way to know exactly what’s in them.  the best (according to my prof) are tums–they’re the cheapest and absorb the easiest.  everyone happy with their nutrition lesson for the day?

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Erica, This may be a little late, but maybe you should reconsider not wanting to take BC pills.  I agree with you; it’s hard to get over the "unclean" feeling (I’m a virgin too), but I looked at it as just medicine.  I didn’t take it as birth control, but to get my period again, so is it really any different from any other kind of prescription?  I’m off BC now because I put on enough weight to get my periods on my own, but I went a year and a half without getting a period…I was actually happy to gat it at that point, with or without BC.  Just my two cents, Ophelia Oui, my doctor wanted me to take BC pills (i’m 16, a virgin) to get my period again, I said NO WAY. Just the thought of it makes me feel ‘unclean’ (is that weird?). I am taking Zoloft, though. I have had my first two panic attacks ON it, I never had one when I wasn’t taking it… Odd… I wouold appreciate feedback from other bulimarexics taking Zoloft- side effects, etc. Merci beaucuop. Erica

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hi guys. I’ll spoiler this for food mentions and health issue mentions .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. Ok. I’m underweight. Given. I haven’t had a period in two and half years. Given.

you don’t have enough of anything in your diet, then. given. if you did, you might be underweight, but you’d have your period. so you’re missing major things. While I don’t eat very much, the things I eat have good stuff in it

you know what? all food is *good stuff* all food has *good stuff* in it. it’s a fuel. that’s all food is. it’s been politicised to hell, but it’s just a fuel.  (I think) Broccolli, Bananas, Nonfat yogurts, etc.,  So that I think I am getting a reasonable amount of calcium and potassium. I also take a children’s multivitamin.

are you a child, laurie? you should be taking a woman’s multivitamin. preferably several of them, because you’re not going to get the right mix in any one; thye’re just not marketed for people who get none. Here’s my question: If I eat TONS of calcium in the things I eat, tons of potassium, etc., can I still get osteoporosis?

yes Can I still be susceptible to heart attack?

yes But the things I eat (habitually, same things, every day, we all know how the story goes) are healthy and have good vitamins.

as opposed to those vitamins that have been taken over by evil?  Should I be worried though? I want my "good enough" to not be life-threatening, you know? Am I doing ANYTHING good for myself??

taking vitamins is a good step. it’s not enough. and you do *not* eat enough. you do *not* get enough of anything, from Cals to vitamin b to sodium. and it will be life-endangering. I hope I haven’t triggered anyone…

you spoilered it. let people take responsibility for themselves. if you read something spoilered for talk of food, you accepted the chance it might trigger you. ased in general probably triggers people somewhat. that’s a choice people make for themselves, not for others. gus — the unconscious, it seems, will not let go of its hoard. the past comes with us and occasionally kidnaps the present, so that the distinctions we depend on for safety, for sanity, disappear. past. present. future. when this happens, we are no longer sure who we are, or perhaps we can no longer pretend to be sure who we are. if time is a river then we shall all meet death by water.                                          -jeanette winterson "gut symmetries" — For more information about this service, send e-mail to:

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My dietitian used to say, "yes, you eat very healthy foods….but the problem is that you’re not eating ENOUGH!" Yes, you should be concerned that osteoporosis is lurking around the corner for you…. Yes, you should be concerned that what you are doing to your body, an act of omission, rather than comission, is going to have long-term effects. Last year, I broke a toe when I bashed into a bookcase.  When my foot was x-rayed, the doctor talked a lot about "osteopenia," which is the precursor to osteoporosis. Not having periods is not a good thing. A friend of mine, who is severely anorexic, is currently taking Fosamax (sp?) to try to counteract the effects of her long-term illness.   She’s already experienced broken ribs and a broken hip….and she is only in her mid-thirties.  The meds will probably only stave off the osteoporosis for a brief time…. Even though right now, it doesn’t feel that way, Laurie, you ARE doing damage to your body which can have long-term effects.  My dietitian  also used to say, "nothing in nutrition works fast. "  What was being said was that even though I might feel perfectly fine, even though I was eating "healthy" foods, I was still eating at a subnormal level and was not giving myself the nutrition which was needed….and somewhere down the road, years later, I might pay the price. Think about it… –Connie

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Hi Laurie, One thing I’d like to point out in your response is your reference to your eating "good" food.  I hate to say it but there is no such thing as good or bad food.  Healthy eating involves all different types of food and when certain foods are restricted are cut out, your eating is no longer "healthy" (Sorry!) In response to your question about osteoporosis and heart attacks.  Yes, you are definitely at risk.  For one thing, your not menstruating so this means your body is not making estrogen which is essential for the absorption of Calcium.  Therefore it doesn’t matter really how much calcium rich food you are taking it, it won’t be absorbed properly.  Also, the minerals like potassium and magnesium which can affect the heart are also absorbed through the help of other nutrients so if you aren’t eating a balanced diet you won’t have normal levels of these important electrolytes.  (my doctor has pounded this info. into my head, so I know what I’m talking about) Anyway hope this helps. Kathryn K.

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