ONe doc told me to put my inhalers in my mouth when i use them…..another told me not…..i would appreciate if others would share what their docs said!!
My doctor want wants a spacer used.
ONe doc told me to put my inhalers in my mouth when i use them…..another told me not…..i would appreciate if others would share what their docs said!!
Depending on the type of inhaler you’re using, you might want to consider a "spacer" device. I’m surprised neither doc actually mentioned them ! Chris — Chris King | Information provided here should NOT be used http://www.csking.demon.co.uk | practitioner.
If you do not have a spacer, then out. place the mouthpiece about two to three fingers away from the mouth and proceed. The idea is to slow the delivery of the aerosol so as not to just coat the inside of the mouth… basically what a straight spacer does. With less medication coating the mouth, the more you’re able to take in.
ONe doc told me to put my inhalers in my mouth when i use them…..another told me not…..i would appreciate if others would share what their docs said!!
Inhalers come with patient instructions so the first thing to do is read them. Different kinds of inhalers may be used differently. Probably the most common inhaler type at the moment is the MDI or metered-dose inhaler. There is more than one correct technique; theoretically spraying a short distance outside the mouth results in better aersolization, but aim is critical and its hard to get the spray going in the right direction. MDI instructions usually show the inhaler being inserted in the mouth since its easier to aim. The best way with an MDI is to use a spacer, like an AeroChamber–this results in good aersolization with minimum side effects due to overspray. The breath-actuated inhalers, like the Autohaler and DPI (dry powder inhaler), like the turbuhaler, require the mouthpace be inserted in the mouth to get proper suction. Also in general spacers can not be used with this type of inhaler. See: http://www.lung.ca/asthma/manage/devices.html Inhalation Devices (MDI, DPI, Nebulizer) Canada http://www.lung.ca/devices/mdi.html Proper Use of MDIs Canada http://www.caritas.ab.ca/~ther/respcare/asthma/medicat.html SPACER MED ADMINISTRATION (MDI) Canada http://www.njc.org/MFhtml/AER_MF.html Using an Aerochamber
While I readily confess to employing btb, nesting and using half round-trips, I have never done hidden city. I can see how this really upsets the airlines. You* have checked in A-(B)-C and then you disappear at B.
Are we talking about multiple-leg trips here, or true hidden stopovers such as, for instance, these UA DEN-FRA which actually involve a change of gauge at ORD? Effects: 1. Passenger count is wrong.
Not really. They give you two boarding passes. If you didn’t board, you don’t enter the count. So, it’s just like anyone that’s checked in but ends up not showing up or not showing up in time. 2. Agents have to page you (just listen to how many of these there are next time you travel)
When was the last time you saw anyone get paged? 3. Baggage manifest has to be checked, when it’s apparent you’re not coming.
No luggage matching in North America. So I am sure they don’t care. Bottom line: it’s just the fare issue.
While I readily confess to employing btb, nesting and using half round-trips, I have never done hidden city. I can see how this really upsets the airlines. You* have checked in A-(B)-C and then you disappear at B. Are we talking about multiple-leg trips here, or true hidden stopovers such as, for instance, these UA DEN-FRA which actually involve a change of gauge at ORD?
Either, or the third case where it’s a through flight with a hub stopover (no plane change). Effects: 1. Passenger count is wrong. Not really. They give you two boarding passes. If you didn’t board, you don’t enter the count. So, it’s just like anyone that’s checked in but ends up not showing up or not showing up in time.
True. I had the through flight scenario in mind, but omitted to say so. 2. Agents have to page you (just listen to how many of these there are next time you travel) When was the last time you saw anyone get paged?
August 1, 2000. Maybe you just tune out those announcements. I hear them all the time. 3. Baggage manifest has to be checked, when it’s apparent you’re not coming. No luggage matching in North America. So I am sure they don’t care.
Maybe no matching in the US, although I’m not sure of that. Baggage is certainly matched Canada-US transborder. Bottom line: it’s just the fare issue.
We’ll agree to differ. B.
I don’t see how hidden city tickets generally are very useful. Once you miss the second flight (assuming two each way), return reservations are cancelled; also you can’t have checked baggage as the airline would check luggage to the ticketed destination. So to benefit, the round trip fare A – B – C – B – A must be less than a one way A – B, and the passenger must not have checked baggage. How often does this occur? —
All the time for business travelers!! I’m sure others have reaped a whole lot more savings than this, but last year, a co-worker needed a one way ticket to Cincinnati. It was over $500. A roundtrip on DL IAH-IND with a connection at CVG was $220. This saved over $300. This works particularly well on last minute trips where the ultimate ticketed destination is a low fare compete route from the point of origin.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t see how hidden city tickets generally are very useful. Once you miss the second flight (assuming two each way), return reservations are cancelled; also you can’t have checked baggage as the airline would check luggage to the ticketed destination. So to benefit, the round trip fare A – B – C – B – A must be less than a one way A – B, and the passenger must not have checked baggage. How often does this occur? —
I don’t see how hidden city tickets generally are very useful. Once you miss the second flight (assuming two each way), return reservations are cancelled; also you can’t have checked baggage as the airline would check luggage to the ticketed destination. So to benefit, the round trip fare A – B – C – B – A must be less than a one way A – B, and the passenger must not have checked baggage. How often does this occur? —
Quite often I’d say. One way fares on the ‘majors’ (like Delta who spawned this thread), are very expensive since they are all full fare (no discounts). I agree this ‘trick’ is of no use to the leisure traveller who wants to go A to B and come back again. But then they would probably never think of it, or else post to this ng asking if it can be done. B.
I don’t see how hidden city tickets generally are very useful. Once you miss the second flight (assuming two each way), return reservations are cancelled; also you can’t have checked baggage as the airline would check luggage to the ticketed destination. So to benefit, the round trip fare A – B – C – B – A must be less than a one way A – B, and the passenger must not have checked baggage. How often does this occur?
It happens. An example, look at J2RTN fares from Canada to Germany and compare them with equivalent fares from the US: it’s roughly twice. So, get a cheap B-A-B round trip. Of course, if you are a real FF miles junkie, you might actually fly the whole thing, which might actually be legal. But not necessarily convenient. Or you might have a fairly convoluted travel pattern. Which might actually require you to go to A right before your trip to C. As to luggage, often you don’t check anything. Or if B happens to be an entry point, you get it to go through customs anyway.
All the time for business travelers!! I’m sure others have reaped a whole lot more savings than this, but last year, a co-worker needed a one way ticket to Cincinnati. It was over $500. A roundtrip on DL IAH-IND with a connection at CVG was $220. This saved over $300. This works particularly well on last minute trips where the ultimate ticketed destination is a low fare compete route from the point of origin.
And even better if said business travellers can bill the client for the full OW whack and pocket the difference. But that wouldn’t happen, would it ? B.
It is not always a certainty that the airlines will cancel your ongoing reservation if you don’t show up for a flight. The airlines are pretty damn disorganized as it is, I’m sure you could easily persuade them to reinstate your record. In any case, as long as you check in for your first flight and receive a boarding pass for your second flight, then I doubt highly that you will find your following flights cancelled. I’ve done this before on Delta flying from STL-ATL. The fare from STL-ATL is usually about a hundred dollars more than STL-MGM which connects in ATL anyway. Just check in for the first flight, get boarding pass for second flight, throw away. Then pay $19.99 to rent Budget car to drive to MGM and play golf on the way. Fun. I have considered this for flights from STL-JFK. The last minute fare on TWA is insane, around $1000. However, you can buy STL-BWI with no advance for $300 that allows connecting in JFK. Pretty crazy.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – All the time for business travelers!! I’m sure others have reaped a whole lot more savings than this, but last year, a co-worker needed a one way ticket to Cincinnati. It was over $500. A roundtrip on DL IAH-IND with a connection at CVG was $220. This saved over $300. This works particularly well on last minute trips where the ultimate ticketed destination is a low fare compete route from the point of origin. And even better if said business travellers can bill the client for the full OW whack and pocket the difference. But that wouldn’t happen, would it ? B.
Well, my said business travelers couldn’t do that because there’s no client to bill, not to mention the fact that they wouldn’t have a receipt for the higher fare 
I have considered this for flights from STL-JFK. The last minute fare on TWA is insane, around $1000.
No Herb. However, you can buy STL-BWI with no advance for $300 that allows connecting in JFK. Pretty crazy.
The Herb effect. Bob C.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but the airlines are the ones that came up with this pricing structure in the first place, weren’t they? As opposed as I am to the moral aspects of cheating, I don’t see this as cheating. I maintain that I have the right to get off the plane anywhere it stops if I feel like it. Getting back on is my option.
<snip funny rant Right you are Bill! I can’t think of any other transportation medium that uses this – I have taken the bus between Toronto and Detroit for months. If you want to get out at London Ontario, no problem. I’ve taken a cruise where my wife got too seasick to continue – she was able to get off at an intermediate stop, no problem. I can’t imagine a cab ride where you say to the cabbie "Stop I want to get out here", and he says "No we have to continue to the airport, and then I’ll bring you back here". I agree with all the posters who have said the airlines created this problem with their screwy load management pricing, and they should be forced to honour tickets that they’ve issued under these schemes. It may result in slightly higher fares, but at least I’d feel it was a ‘fair fare’. OtherKevin
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Correct me if I’m wrong, but the airlines are the ones that came up with this pricing structure in the first place, weren’t they? As opposed as I am to the moral aspects of cheating, I don’t see this as cheating. I maintain that I have the right to get off the plane anywhere it stops if I feel like it. Getting back on is my option. <snip funny rant Right you are Bill! I can’t think of any other transportation medium that uses this – I have taken the bus between Toronto and Detroit for months. If you want to get out at London Ontario, no problem. I’ve taken a cruise where my wife got too seasick to continue – she was able to get off at an intermediate stop, no problem. I can’t imagine a cab ride where you say to the cabbie "Stop I want to get out here", and he says "No we have to continue to the airport, and then I’ll bring you back here".
How would your bus and cruise examples be cheating the provider out of a higher fare as is the case with hidden city ticketing? I agree with all the posters who have said the airlines created this problem with their screwy load management pricing, and they should be forced to honour tickets that they’ve issued under these schemes. It may result in slightly higher fares, but at least I’d feel it was a ‘fair fare’.
This has absolutely nothing to do with "load management pricing." It’s all about low fare competition. If there were no low fare carriers, there would be no need for hidden city ticketing.
FRA prices seem very high until well after Oktoberfest.
the problem though is Oktoberfest only happens in Munich. Yea it happens to smaller degrees elsewhere but it is centered in Munich. (my liver is still hurting) Gerald Sylvester
Excellent essay as always, Bill. I think I see a flaw in your argument however. You assume the airlines set their fares in some kind of controlled, logical manner. I believe they actually use a ouija board and/or a dart-throwing chimpanzee. From time to time this procedure is circumvented by someone shouting ‘Ohmigawd, Herbie Air has lower fares form Stinksville to Megalopolis, we must match them at once’. (Of course, back in the Middle Ages there were no hidden cities because there were no hubs.) While I readily confess to employing btb, nesting and using half round-trips, I have never done hidden city. I can see how this really upsets the airlines. You* have checked in A-(B)-C and then you disappear at B. Effects: 1. Passenger count is wrong. 2. Agents have to page you (just listen to how many of these there are next time you travel) 3. Baggage manifest has to be checked, when it’s apparent you’re not coming. All of this requires totally unproductive effort on the part of the airline. And it’s not like there’s a surplus of gate agents looking for something to do. Upshot: Flight possibly delayed, inconveniencing (or worse) the other 100+ folks who unfortunately picked the same flight as you. The airlines may have created the scenario, but IMHO using hidden city is beyond the pale of ’savvy traveling’. Air travel may have evolved to resemble bus trips in many ways, but the rules *are* different. Since the judge says they can’t come after you for the money, FF miles seems to be the only lever they have. * generic ‘you’ Brian
Correct me if I’m wrong, but the airlines are the ones that came up with this pricing structure in the first place, weren’t they? As opposed as I am to the moral aspects of cheating, I don’t see this as cheating. I maintain that I have the right to get off the plane anywhere it stops if I feel like it. Getting back on is my option.
I was looking at the UA web site for mid-October WAS to PAR service. The half-round-trip price is about $285 during that period. Some of the routings had a connection at FRA. Out of curiosity, I looked up the WAS to FRA price. On the very same flights used for WAS-FRA-PAR, the lowest half-round-trip price was $518 if used only for WAS-FRA So I could "miss" the connection at FRA and save 45% on WAS-FRA if they didn’t catch me (which they would). If all I’d wanted was a one-way WAS-FRA, I could pay $2002 for a "legal" one-way ticket or 2*($285)=$570 and throw away three flight segments. FRA prices seem very high until well after Oktoberfest. Sounds like AA on connections through DFW vs travel ending at DFW. Bob C.
This was featured today as well on NPR evening news – how some of the bigs are trying to go after pax using hidden city tickets now, after previoulsy directing their efforts against TA’s selling these flights. Their take was that the pax gonna pay one way or the other, if they can’t fight effectively by cancelling FF miles, adding $$ to the CC’s etc, they’ll end up just raising those tickets to make it unattractive. They said that if hidden cities were made "legal" it would reduce revs by $6B a year, and the carriers aren’t just going to eat it. FH
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I ran across this while goofing off on CNN.com. The court decision in favour of the traveler who DL felt owed $9000US for hidden city savings was interesting. If it holds up, the airlines will have to change some things. http://www.cnn.com/2000/TRAVEL/VIEWS/elliott/08/23/index.html
They said that if hidden cities were made "legal" it would reduce revs by $6B a year, and the carriers aren’t just going to eat it.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but the airlines are the ones that came up with this pricing structure in the first place, weren’t they? As opposed as I am to the moral aspects of cheating, I don’t see this as cheating. I maintain that I have the right to get off the plane anywhere it stops if I feel like it. Getting back on is my option. I would agree that the airlines have the reciprical right to cancel the remainder of my trip (like my return). What are they going to do, check my boarding pass as I get off in the "hidden" city and force me to go back to my seat? "And just where do you think you’re going? Sorry, Mister Mattocks, but you ARE going to LAX today. You can go hard or you can go easy, but you are going to LAX." "No, really, I just want to grab a quick bite to eat – I’ll come right back!" "We’ve heard that before. Please sit down before we have to get ugly. We’ll bring you some cardboard to gnaw on." Yeah, that’s going to work. I predict an increase in "passenger initiated evacuations" if they try. What the heck, I’ve always wanted to try out one of those inflatable slides anyway. I have never actually done the "hidden city" thing, but then, I don’t pay for my plane tickets – my customers do. If it came out of my pocket, I might do it myself. Next, they’ll be telling us that we mustn’t avail ourselves of discounted tickets by purchasing in advance, we must pay last minute full fare prices, or they may lose eleventy gazillion dollars per year. Sorry, they make the rules, we dance. If they left a loophole, them’s the breaks. They can fix it, assuming that they still have employees who know how to write. These are the same guys who have no problem if I have to fly through three layovers when I could have had a non-stop, except the triple hop was cheaper. They could have saved money by flying me straight through, and I would have been happier as well, but NOOOOO! These are the same guys who have been euphemistically telling the nation with a straight face that putting stranded airline passengers on a bus or train to their destination (and not refunding a penny, natch) is just fine, they are honoring their commitment, because the airlines are now a "complete travel solution." Bite me. Recently on a trip to California, the local Best Buy chain there offered a $400 discount on anything in the store if the purchaser would sign up for 4 years of MSN service at a certain rate. They’ve been doing that promotion all over the US. The thing is, in California there is some obscure little law that allows consumers to cancel such contracts without recourse within a certain period of time, or something like that – I read it in the paper, but didn’t get the whole story. So, for a couple of days, people were lining up to get their "free" TV’s and air conditioners, signing up for MSN, and then going home and cancelling the contract. Best Buy dumped that promotion pronto, of course, but they did honor their mistake while it lasted. If the IRS in all their wisdom sees fit to grant tax-free status to people named Bob who are left-handed, and a few hundred million people petition the courts to change their name and start signing their new name funny, are they dishonest? No, just confused and hard to call to supper. I can’t comprehend the whining attitude of the airlines in this respect. "Aw, you figured out a loophole in our freaky and confusing pricing scheme. You must be punished." A boot to the head for the dunderheads who thought up the idea of blaming the customer for working within their system to his or her own advantage. I just want to be sure I have this straight: Plane late? Passengers to blame, they don’t show up on time, they board too slowly. Irate employees? Passengers to blame, they have bad attitudes and they yell at innocent airline employees. Not enough planes? Passengers to blame, they fly too much. Prices too high? Passengers to blame, they look for discounts and ways to legally save money. Good idea, airlines. Poke the bear with a stick. Now that the entire nation hates you and holds you responsible for the state of commercial airline travel in the US, you should tell us it is all our fault, and then take us to court or send us $9,000 bills for exploiting your own screwy pricing structures. Why don’t you just hang signs out in the airports that say "Passengers suck, and everything is your own damned fault!" We peasants like that. Don’t worry, we’ll eat cake if we have no bread. Yes, "hidden city" ticketing will drive the airlines out of business…and it is about time. Best Regards, Bill Mattocks
I lived in Holland for two years, and my asthma worsened to the point where my Doctor prescribed Serevent and Flixotide (Flovent in the US) twice a day along with Ventolin for emergencies. We recognized that the climate was the major culprit, and I decided to move back to the states to the desert of New Mexico. My life-long asthma symptoms are clearing up, and I want to stop taking the inhaled corticosteroid and the serevent. Does anyone have experience with tapering off of these drugs? My stateside doctor certainly hasn’t got a clue!
I lived in Holland for two years, and my asthma worsened to the point where my Doctor prescribed Serevent and Flixotide (Flovent in the US) twice a day along with Ventolin for emergencies. We recognized that the climate was the major culprit, and I decided to move back to the states to the desert of New Mexico. My life-long asthma symptoms are clearing up, and I want to stop taking the inhaled corticosteroid and the serevent. Does anyone have experience with tapering off of these drugs? My stateside doctor certainly hasn’t got a clue!
Current asthma guidelines are that the asthmatic use an Action Plan to adjust medications, based on peak flow readings and symptoms. The goal is to keep lung function in the Green Zone (80% personal best), but at the same time minimize the amount of inhaled steroid used or/and Serevent. Opinions differ as to whether Serevent or inhaled steroids should be reduced first. During an exacerbation when peak flow readings drop into Yellow Zone (50-80% PB) typically inhaled steroids are doubled and Ventolin used as needed. Ellis
Chris Writes: I lived in Holland for two years, and my asthma worsened to the point where my Doctor prescribed Serevent and Flixotide (Flovent in the US) twice a day along with Ventolin for emergencies. We recognized that the climate was the major culprit, and I decided to move back to the states to the desert of New Mexico. My life-long asthma symptoms are clearing up, and I want to stop taking the inhaled corticosteroid and the serevent. Does anyone have experience with tapering off of these drugs? My stateside doctor certainly hasn’t got a clue!
Greetings fellow Chris, I have recently been taken off Serevent and Flovent, I had only taken Flovent for a few weeks before I was taken off of it but the Serevent I was on for a long time. I don’t think I tapered off of the drugs, I think I just stopped them cold turkey. I had no problems with them though, but then again I have been taking various Asthma medications since I was born so I am used to it. Chris Have Asthma? Check out the IRC channel #Asthma on ChatNet. Fun and support for all asthma sufferers.
Chris, The asthma guidelines indicate: If you’re taking none or very little ventolin. First cut down on serevent. If you’re okay after a couple of weeks start cutting down Flixotide . About 25% – 30% gradual reduction over 2 months . Then slowly reduce over another couple of months. Always keep a ventolin on you just in case. It took me ages to find this out! Janet – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I lived in Holland for two years, and my asthma worsened to the point where my Doctor prescribed Serevent and Flixotide (Flovent in the US) twice a day along with Ventolin for emergencies. We recognized that the climate was the major culprit, and I decided to move back to the states to the desert of New Mexico. My life-long asthma symptoms are clearing up, and I want to stop taking the inhaled corticosteroid and the serevent. Does anyone have experience with tapering off of these drugs? My stateside doctor certainly hasn’t got a clue!
Terri <terr…@vverizon.net
wrote in news:DoFZc.476$H26.74@trnddc07: For the OP: SAD doesn’t need the direct sunlight of midday. You could go for an hour long walk at 7 in the morning when the risk of sunburn is low to non-existent. That would provide you with a lot of light therapy and exercise without any risk no matter how fair your skin is. As winter approaches, you can walk later and later in the day without any risk to your skin. Given that you find the side effects of the anti-depressants unacceptable, it might be worth looking into this kind of non-drug treatment for SAD.
Very good advice, IMO. Chakolate — The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not ‘Eureka!’ (I found it!) but ‘That’s funny …’ –Isaac Asimov
Absolutely. I was seen some years back for SAD. I timed this little break so I’d get a kind of ‘chemical rest’, no drugs for the summer and up until a couple weeks ago I was doing wonderfully well. Unfortunately, I am so fair skinned that I keep out of the sun and never tan. I always use sunblock. But I do try an get as much bright light as possible and have a special bright reading light. Thanks! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
You mention the days getting shorter… have you considered increasing your exposure to sunlight or bright light during the daytime hours? Might you have "seasonal affective disorder"? FurPaw — "Like the reason a dog Has so many friends He wags his tail Instead of his tongue" – Aerosmith To reply, unleash the dog
look into lamictal (lamictyl) not sure of the spelling. it’s been around for over 10 years. no side effects. "FEARLESS LEADER" <bkn…@comcast.net
wrote in message
news:-_KdnRQJBt4wEavcRVn-pg@comcast.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
Is anyone having luck with antidepressants? I have taken a ‘vacation’ from Zoloft for a good 2 months and what a blessed relief! I sleep thru the night! (ok, unless it’s a super soaker night) I have occasional interest
in
sex! I can make it thru a day without diarrhea! But as the days are
getting
noticably shorter and the hormonal thing gets more intense, it’s obvious I need to start back again. But the side effects are unacceptable, just as they were on Prozac. Yes, I know we all respond differently. I’m just wondering if any of you have had success, have some words of wisdom. I’m expecting a call from my doctor in the morning regarding this and I
know
she won’t be pleased that I weaned myself off. If I must take something
and
hormoes are no longer an option then there’s got to be something with more tolerable side effects. Doesn’t there??? Thanks! kath
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Susan wrote:
x-no-archive: yes In article <GdGdnQP0pvnkB6vcRVn…@comcast.com, "FEARLESS LEADER" <bkn…@comcast.net writes: Unfortunately, I am so fair skinned that I keep out of the sun and never tan. I’ve had a lot of skin cancers, but I try to make sure to get at least a few minutes of sun exposure without protection or sunglasses each day. Staying out of the sun entirely is bad for your sleep, moods, bones and hormonal functioning in general. Susan
Yes, yes, yes. The general recommendation is 15 minutes a day without sunscreen sometime between 10:00 AM and 2 PM. For the OP: SAD doesn’t need the direct sunlight of midday. You could go for an hour long walk at 7 in the morning when the risk of sunburn is low to non-existent. That would provide you with a lot of light therapy and exercise without any risk no matter how fair your skin is. As winter approaches, you can walk later and later in the day without any risk to your skin. Given that you find the side effects of the anti-depressants unacceptable, it might be worth looking into this kind of non-drug treatment for SAD.
"FEARLESS LEADER" <bkn…@comcast.net
wrote in
news:-_KdnRQJBt4wEavcRVn-pg@comcast.com:
Is anyone having luck with antidepressants? I have taken a ‘vacation’ from Zoloft for a good 2 months and what a blessed relief! I sleep thru the night! (ok, unless it’s a super soaker night) I have occasional interest in sex! I can make it thru a day without diarrhea! But as the days are getting noticably shorter and the hormonal thing gets more intense, it’s obvious I need to start back again. But the side effects are unacceptable, just as they were on Prozac. Yes, I know we all respond differently. I’m just wondering if any of you have had success, have some words of wisdom. I’m expecting a call from my doctor in the morning regarding this and I know she won’t be pleased that I weaned myself off. If I must take something and hormoes are no longer an option then there’s got to be something with more tolerable side effects. Doesn’t there???
The only time I had a problem with Zoloft was when I had increased my dosage to 100 mg/day. It made me too jumpy to sleep, although I didn’t notice the jumpiness during the daytime. Did you take it in the morning? Anyway, prozac and zoloft are very similar in their actions, so you might want to try one of the others, like wellbutrin (they claim ‘reduced risk of sexual side effects’). Paxil works well for lots of people but you have to be careful to taper off when you stop. I know how annoying it can be to have to shop around for a med that works, but hang in there, when it works well it’s worth it. Chakolate — The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not ‘Eureka!’ (I found it!) but ‘That’s funny …’ –Isaac Asimov
Terri wrote:
Harriet wrote: look into lamictal (lamictyl) not sure of the spelling. it’s been around for over 10 years. no side effects.
I sent this at 4 in the morning. A Black Box warning is the strictest warning label a drug can have. It indicates potentially serious, life-threatening side effects. In addition to the black box warning re skin rashes which can be fatal, the side effects of this drug can be found at: http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/lamotrigine_ad.htm It appears this drug jumped on the bandwagon created bt Pfizer for neurontin and tried to find it’s own little niche in off label uses for anti-epileptic drugs. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
The stuff has a black box warning on it for serious skin reactions. Here’s the warning: SERIOUS RASHES REQUIRING HOSPITALIZATION AND DISCONTINUATION OF TREATMENT HAVE BEEN REPORTED IN ASSOCIATION WITH THE USE OF LAMICTAL. THE INCIDENCE OF THESE RASHES, WHICH HAVE INCLUDED STEVENS-JOHNSON SYNDROME, IS APPROXIMATELY 0.8% (8 PER 1,000) IN PEDIATRIC PATIENTS (AGE <16 YEARS) RECEIVING LAMICTAL AS ADJUNCTIVE THERAPY FOR EPILEPSY AND 0.3% (3 PER 1,000) IN ADULTS ON ADJUNCTIVE THERAPY FOR EPILEPSY. IN CLINICAL TRIALS OF BIPOLAR AND OTHER MOOD DISORDERS, THE RATE OF SERIOUS RASH WAS 0.08% (0.8 PER 1,000) IN ADULT PATIENTS RECEIVING LAMICTAL AS INITIAL MONOTHERAPY AND 0.13% (1.3 PER 1,000) IN ADULT PATIENTS RECEIVING LAMICTAL AS ADJUNCTIVE THERAPY. IN A PROSPECTIVELY FOLLOWED COHORT OF 1,983 PEDIATRIC PATIENTS WITH EPILEPSY TAKING ADJUNCTIVE LAMICTAL, THERE WAS 1 RASH-RELATED DEATH. IN WORLDWIDE POSTMARKETING EXPERIENCE, RARE CASES OF TOXIC EPIDERMAL NECROLYSIS AND/OR RASH-RELATED DEATH HAVE BEEN REPORTED IN ADULT AND PEDIATRIC PATIENTS, BUT THEIR NUMBERS ARE TOO FEW TO PERMIT A PRECISE ESTIMATE OF THE RATE. BECAUSE THE RATE OF SERIOUS RASH IS GREATER IN PEDIATRIC PATIENTS THAN IN ADULTS, IT BEARS EMPHASIS THAT LAMICTAL IS APPROVED ONLY FOR USE IN PEDIATRIC PATIENTS BELOW THE AGE OF 16 YEARS WHO HAVE SEIZURES ASSOCIATED WITH THE LENNOX-GASTAUT SYNDROME OR IN PATIENTS WITH PARTIAL SEIZURES (SEE INDICATIONS). OTHER THAN AGE, THERE ARE AS YET NO FACTORS IDENTIFIED THAT ARE KNOWN TO PREDICT THE RISK OF OCCURRENCE OR THE SEVERITY OF RASH ASSOCIATED WITH LAMICTAL. THERE ARE SUGGESTIONS, YET TO BE PROVEN, THAT THE RISK OF RASH MAY ALSO BE INCREASED BY (1) COADMINISTRATION OF LAMICTAL WITH VALPROATE (INCLUDES VALPROIC ACID AND DIVALPROEX SODIUM), (2) EXCEEDING THE RECOMMENDED INITIAL DOSE OF LAMICTAL, OR (3) EXCEEDING THE RECOMMENDED DOSE ESCALATION FOR LAMICTAL. HOWEVER, CASES HAVE BEEN REPORTED IN THE ABSENCE OF THESE FACTORS. NEARLY ALL CASES OF LIFE-THREATENING RASHES ASSOCIATED WITH LAMICTAL HAVE OCCURRED WITHIN 2 TO 8 WEEKS OF TREATMENT INITIATION. HOWEVER, ISOLATED CASES HAVE BEEN REPORTED AFTER PROLONGED TREATMENT (E.G., 6 MONTHS). ACCORDINGLY, DURATION OF THERAPY CANNOT BE RELIED UPON AS A MEANS TO PREDICT THE POTENTIAL RISK HERALDED BY THE FIRST APPEARANCE OF A RASH. ALTHOUGH BENIGN RASHES ALSO OCCUR WITH LAMICTAL, IT IS NOT POSSIBLE TO PREDICT RELIABLY WHICH RASHES WILL PROVE TO BE SERIOUS OR LIFE THREATENING. ACCORDINGLY, LAMICTAL SHOULD ORDINARILY BE DISCONTINUED AT THE FIRST SIGN OF RASH, UNLESS THE RASH IS CLEARLY NOT DRUG RELATED. DISCONTINUATION OF TREATMENT MAY NOT PREVENT A RASH FROM BECOMING LIFE THREATENING OR PERMANENTLY DISABLING OR DISFIGURING. Never mind that this would be a totally unsanctioned off-label use for this drug. "FEARLESS LEADER" <bkn…@comcast.net wrote in message news:-_KdnRQJBt4wEavcRVn-pg@comcast.com… Is anyone having luck with antidepressants? I have taken a ‘vacation’ from Zoloft for a good 2 months and what a blessed relief! I sleep thru the night! (ok, unless it’s a super soaker night) I have occasional interest in sex! I can make it thru a day without diarrhea! But as the days are getting noticably shorter and the hormonal thing gets more intense, it’s obvious I need to start back again. But the side effects are unacceptable, just as they were on Prozac. Yes, I know we all respond differently. I’m just wondering if any of you have had success, have some words of wisdom. I’m expecting a call from my doctor in the morning regarding this and I know she won’t be pleased that I weaned myself off. If I must take something and hormoes are no longer an option then there’s got to be something with more tolerable side effects. Doesn’t there??? Thanks! kath
Harriet wrote:
look into lamictal (lamictyl) not sure of the spelling. it’s been around for over 10 years. no side effects.
The stuff has a black box warning on it for serious skin reactions. Here’s the warning: SERIOUS RASHES REQUIRING HOSPITALIZATION AND DISCONTINUATION OF TREATMENT HAVE BEEN REPORTED IN ASSOCIATION WITH THE USE OF LAMICTAL. THE INCIDENCE OF THESE RASHES, WHICH HAVE INCLUDED STEVENS-JOHNSON SYNDROME, IS APPROXIMATELY 0.8% (8 PER 1,000) IN PEDIATRIC PATIENTS (AGE <16 YEARS) RECEIVING LAMICTAL AS ADJUNCTIVE THERAPY FOR EPILEPSY AND 0.3% (3 PER 1,000) IN ADULTS ON ADJUNCTIVE THERAPY FOR EPILEPSY. IN CLINICAL TRIALS OF BIPOLAR AND OTHER MOOD DISORDERS, THE RATE OF SERIOUS RASH WAS 0.08% (0.8 PER 1,000) IN ADULT PATIENTS RECEIVING LAMICTAL AS INITIAL MONOTHERAPY AND 0.13% (1.3 PER 1,000) IN ADULT PATIENTS RECEIVING LAMICTAL AS ADJUNCTIVE THERAPY. IN A PROSPECTIVELY FOLLOWED COHORT OF 1,983 PEDIATRIC PATIENTS WITH EPILEPSY TAKING ADJUNCTIVE LAMICTAL, THERE WAS 1 RASH-RELATED DEATH. IN WORLDWIDE POSTMARKETING EXPERIENCE, RARE CASES OF TOXIC EPIDERMAL NECROLYSIS AND/OR RASH-RELATED DEATH HAVE BEEN REPORTED IN ADULT AND PEDIATRIC PATIENTS, BUT THEIR NUMBERS ARE TOO FEW TO PERMIT A PRECISE ESTIMATE OF THE RATE. BECAUSE THE RATE OF SERIOUS RASH IS GREATER IN PEDIATRIC PATIENTS THAN IN ADULTS, IT BEARS EMPHASIS THAT LAMICTAL IS APPROVED ONLY FOR USE IN PEDIATRIC PATIENTS BELOW THE AGE OF 16 YEARS WHO HAVE SEIZURES ASSOCIATED WITH THE LENNOX-GASTAUT SYNDROME OR IN PATIENTS WITH PARTIAL SEIZURES (SEE INDICATIONS). OTHER THAN AGE, THERE ARE AS YET NO FACTORS IDENTIFIED THAT ARE KNOWN TO PREDICT THE RISK OF OCCURRENCE OR THE SEVERITY OF RASH ASSOCIATED WITH LAMICTAL. THERE ARE SUGGESTIONS, YET TO BE PROVEN, THAT THE RISK OF RASH MAY ALSO BE INCREASED BY (1) COADMINISTRATION OF LAMICTAL WITH VALPROATE (INCLUDES VALPROIC ACID AND DIVALPROEX SODIUM), (2) EXCEEDING THE RECOMMENDED INITIAL DOSE OF LAMICTAL, OR (3) EXCEEDING THE RECOMMENDED DOSE ESCALATION FOR LAMICTAL. HOWEVER, CASES HAVE BEEN REPORTED IN THE ABSENCE OF THESE FACTORS. NEARLY ALL CASES OF LIFE-THREATENING RASHES ASSOCIATED WITH LAMICTAL HAVE OCCURRED WITHIN 2 TO 8 WEEKS OF TREATMENT INITIATION. HOWEVER, ISOLATED CASES HAVE BEEN REPORTED AFTER PROLONGED TREATMENT (E.G., 6 MONTHS). ACCORDINGLY, DURATION OF THERAPY CANNOT BE RELIED UPON AS A MEANS TO PREDICT THE POTENTIAL RISK HERALDED BY THE FIRST APPEARANCE OF A RASH. ALTHOUGH BENIGN RASHES ALSO OCCUR WITH LAMICTAL, IT IS NOT POSSIBLE TO PREDICT RELIABLY WHICH RASHES WILL PROVE TO BE SERIOUS OR LIFE THREATENING. ACCORDINGLY, LAMICTAL SHOULD ORDINARILY BE DISCONTINUED AT THE FIRST SIGN OF RASH, UNLESS THE RASH IS CLEARLY NOT DRUG RELATED. DISCONTINUATION OF TREATMENT MAY NOT PREVENT A RASH FROM BECOMING LIFE THREATENING OR PERMANENTLY DISABLING OR DISFIGURING. Never mind that this would be a totally unsanctioned off-label use for this drug. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
"FEARLESS LEADER" <bkn…@comcast.net wrote in message news:-_KdnRQJBt4wEavcRVn-pg@comcast.com… Is anyone having luck with antidepressants? I have taken a ‘vacation’ from Zoloft for a good 2 months and what a blessed relief! I sleep thru the night! (ok, unless it’s a super soaker night) I have occasional interest in sex! I can make it thru a day without diarrhea! But as the days are getting noticably shorter and the hormonal thing gets more intense, it’s obvious I need to start back again. But the side effects are unacceptable, just as they were on Prozac. Yes, I know we all respond differently. I’m just wondering if any of you have had success, have some words of wisdom. I’m expecting a call from my doctor in the morning regarding this and I know she won’t be pleased that I weaned myself off. If I must take something and hormoes are no longer an option then there’s got to be something with more tolerable side effects. Doesn’t there??? Thanks! kath
Is anyone having luck with antidepressants? I have taken a ‘vacation’ from Zoloft for a good 2 months and what a blessed relief! I sleep thru the night! (ok, unless it’s a super soaker night) I have occasional interest in sex! I can make it thru a day without diarrhea! But as the days are getting noticably shorter and the hormonal thing gets more intense, it’s obvious I need to start back again. But the side effects are unacceptable, just as they were on Prozac. Yes, I know we all respond differently. I’m just wondering if any of you have had success, have some words of wisdom. I’m expecting a call from my doctor in the morning regarding this and I know she won’t be pleased that I weaned myself off. If I must take something and hormoes are no longer an option then there’s got to be something with more tolerable side effects. Doesn’t there??? Thanks! kath
Subject: antidepressants, irritability, time for a change From: "FEARLESS LEADER" bkn…@comcast.net Date: 9/1/04 7:58 PM Pacific Daylight Time Message-id: <-_KdnRQJBt4wEavcRVn…@comcast.com Is anyone having luck with antidepressants?
In my case, an unqualified yes. I am on Effexor XR 150 MG daily. This was in conjunction with weekly therapy. I am now being monitored by my physician for any side effects. None have shown up. Well, it is the case that Effexor, like many other antidepressants, has the ability to reduce male libido. Fortunately, this is not a concern for me <G
.
A much more serious problem for some people (but not me) is that Effexor is made by the same Evil Conglomerate that makes (horrors!) Premarin. But in any case, the sense of hopelessness that the chronic depression caused me HAS been lifted. My therapist insisted over and over again that the purpose of the antidepressant was not so much to make me feel better, as to make me feel normal. Reply to HarryAndruschak AT aol DOT com Solitary Pagan, and Cat-Daddy to ^..^ Czarina, Max, Fluffy, and Silver ^..^ Waiting at the Rainbow Bridge: Tyler, Pearly, and Conway <Because Nice Matters
.
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -FEARLESS LEADER wrote:
Is anyone having luck with antidepressants? I have taken a ‘vacation’ from Zoloft for a good 2 months and what a blessed relief! I sleep thru the night! (ok, unless it’s a super soaker night) I have occasional interest in sex! I can make it thru a day without diarrhea! But as the days are getting noticably shorter and the hormonal thing gets more intense, it’s obvious I need to start back again. But the side effects are unacceptable, just as they were on Prozac. Yes, I know we all respond differently. I’m just wondering if any of you have had success, have some words of wisdom. I’m expecting a call from my doctor in the morning regarding this and I know she won’t be pleased that I weaned myself off. If I must take something and hormoes are no longer an option then there’s got to be something with more tolerable side effects. Doesn’t there??? Thanks! kath
You mention the days getting shorter… have you considered increasing your exposure to sunlight or bright light during the daytime hours? Might you have "seasonal affective disorder"? FurPaw — "Like the reason a dog Has so many friends He wags his tail Instead of his tongue" – Aerosmith To reply, unleash the dog
Response:
Michelle: I also have chronic sinus problems and allergy problems. I am taking 3 different allergy meds a day and 2 sinus sprays also a day. Lately my sinuses and allergies are driving me nuts because of our current Marine layer we have here in San Diego and also my mom was cleaning the bathroom with Clorox and that is driving my sinuses and allergies nuts!!! Barbara Booth
I wonder…did you ever find any way to deal with the rhinitis? I’ve had that problem for about four years now…drives me crazy. Nasal sprays make me really ill, so for now I just carry lots of Kleenex. Michelle
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks folks. I’m having problems with the Remeron, and I have split the 15 mg tab into halves; I’m trying 7.5mg at night; I’ll give it another 3 to 4 days before I probably quit it. The Remeron in low dosage is causing an almost constant aura (pre-migraine feeling), and it is really causing me to feel very groggy (a very heavy – almost sinus congested feeling- balloon head)too much of the time. I may even try a quarter tablet for the sleep relief. I will mention the things you all have suggested (esp. the Lexapro). I’ve suffered major depression with migraines now for a minimum of 6 years— if one isn’t bad enough! All my life I suffered Rhinitis and Sinusitis; so, for several years the migraines were mistaken for terrible sinus headaches. When I saw an article that maybe 45% of all so called sinus headaches were really migraines, I finally told the doctors to treat me for migraines with Imitrex. Damn, if I wasn’t right. I had visited the best ENT doctors in my state, and non of them even mentioned or suggested I might be having migraines. The link between the antidepressants was found by me; not the doctors. It shows you that ignorance certainly is not bliss in the case of health — most probably anything. Years ago I insisted I had a herniated spinal disk; the doctors wouldn’t listen. I finally insisted on a mylogram (? sp); yep, I had surgery the next week or so. I’m sure some of the folks who have suffered excruciating migraines with out relief have developed depression because of so much trauma. Treat your depression early if you think you might have it. After the 4th major episode you’ll be on meds the rest of your life if you can tolerate them. I believe mine was expressed early (after Vietnam), but I stayed in denial until chronic pain(my back from later injury and Repetitive Use Syndrome) caught up with me later in life. God bless and good luck to you all. Sincerely — Randy — "the Randyman" I’m particularly interested in what migraine relief medication can be used safely with Remeron. Antidepressants do trigger my migraines, but I’m trying a small dosage of Remeron to help with sleep problems; also, I’m hoping for some partial relief from my pathological condition. All antidepressant medicines seem to trigger migraines when I take enough of the med to actually provide clinical relief; this strange phenomena happened after an Effexor trial. I’ve tried all the ammo out there. I’m damned if I do or don’t take antidepressants now. Oh— I can’t take NSAIDs either; they trigger migraines also. Acetametaphen and oxycodone are my only relief now; it is very little relief most of the time. Thanks for reading, and if you have any suggestions what I should do to get relief for my migraines, please post it. Sincerely — Randyman
Yes I finally have found relief with many trials of meds, but like I said in my last post " All my life I suffered Rhinitis and Sinusitis; so, for several years the migraines were mistaken for terrible sinus headaches." The odd thing was the pain I felt across the face( mainly between and around the eyes – also deep inside the nasal passages). I mistook the pain for sinus related when it was not; the same pain producing nerves deep in the nose also are involved with migraines in many folks. The migration of pain was the telltale symptom which made me understand what was really going on; it was migraines (maybe with or without sinus problems). I suffer severely from vaso-motor rhinitis; if I go into a smoky environment without a filtering mask (I use charcoal impregnated 3M paper masks -3M 8247, and they really help me) I might suffer for 1-3 days. I use the nasal spray Nasacort and the anti-histamine nasal spray Astelin. I recently discovered that taking Allegra tabs (60 mg fexafenadine) really relieved the facial migraines, but not the migraines as a whole. My eyes and nasal areas were not involved nearly as much after I took fexafenadine after a week. I gave up on the fexafenadine about a year ago after a few days use, but this time(late this summer and early fall) I tried for over a week; I finally started to get relief from my facial migraine involvement. Now when I get a migraine they just migrate around the head without as much eye nose involvement. I’ve tried all the saline irrigation stuff; it never helped. I have not had a sinus infection since March 2003. I suggest saline nasal spray and saline gel (brand "Ayr") to keep the nasal membranes from drying out; I especially moisten inside my nose before I go to bed at night. The antidepressants Nortriptyline, Trazadone, Prozac, Effexor XR, Remeron, Wellbutrin, Ritalin, Serzone, Paxil, Celexa, Luvox, Zoloft, and Amytriptyline have caused my migraines. I have tried some several times (esp. this year), and before I get to a medicating dose I usually suffer migraine symptoms. Amytriptyline made me ill for over a week with migraines even after stopping the drug — truly a hellish experience of migraines. Back to the sinus problems, I try to avoid situations I know will cause me problems. Late summer and fall are usually bad times for me; so, I try to stay indoors as much as possible—-really a screwing because the weather is so nice. I was tested several times for allergies (the 25 most common allergens), and all was negative. There is some allergen involved because this period of time has always been my period for the worst sinus problem with frequent infections. My sinus problems [esp. vaso-motor rhinitis reactors (ex. smoke, and petroleum smells)], most all antidepressants, NSAIDs (aspirin and other nonsteroidal anti inflammatory drugs), and diazepam are migraine triggers to me. I’m very lucky that the VA is helping me now (I couldn’t get help in the late 70’s or 80’s). The health care in the USA is our country’s largest disgrace; it must be changed for the better. 43 million people without health insurance is horrendous; it is even more so when we consider our country as the leading world power. 84 billion dollars sure could help some sick folks here. Our country should be brought up on charges of cruelty and inhuman treatments in some world court. We seem to be generous except with our own people. Our social service system is overwhelmed by the influx of legal and illegal aliens; our country is NO longer a vast wilderness needing pioneers to settle it. Look at our country from a satellite view at night, and see our consumption of power. See how rich we were, and how debt ridden we are getting. Now, right wing gung ho capitalists and impractical liberals alike want the cheap labor the hordes of immigrants can bring. Remember when we talked about population control in the world (late sixties), and we discussed aiming for zero population growth. I guess over population of the world will happen because of politics and religion; the world is doomed because of this. Look at what’s happening with the polar ice cap and read about the effects of all that fresh water pouring into the upper Atlantic. I’m glad I live now instead of 100 years in the future. I guess I have too much time to think——gee I wonder why we talk about Arnold instead of something or someone of substance. Back to sinuses — *<];o)) Sincerely — Randymann
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Michelle: I also have chronic sinus problems and allergy problems. I am taking 3 different allergy meds a day and 2 sinus sprays also a day. Lately my sinuses and allergies are driving me nuts because of our current Marine layer we have here in San Diego and also my mom was cleaning the bathroom with Clorox and that is driving my sinuses and allergies nuts!!! Barbara Booth
the same pain producing nerves deep in the nose also are involved with migraines in many folks.
That’s very interesting to hear you say that, because many time when I have a migraine, it hurts to breath on the right side (my migraines are usually on the right) of my nostril- the air going up my nose actually causes pain. I hope I explained this coherently- my doctor looks at me like I’m nuts when I tell him this! SueS
Thanks folks. I’m having problems with the Remeron, and I have split the 15 mg tab into halves; I’m trying 7.5mg at night; I’ll give it another 3 to 4 days before I probably quit it. The Remeron in low dosage is causing an almost constant aura (pre-migraine feeling), and it is really causing me to feel very groggy (a very heavy – almost sinus congested feeling- balloon head)too much of the time. I may even try a quarter tablet for the sleep relief. I will mention the things you all have suggested (esp. the Lexapro). I’ve suffered major depression with migraines now for a minimum of 6 years— if one isn’t bad enough! All my life I suffered Rhinitis and Sinusitis; so, for several years the migraines were mistaken for terrible sinus headaches. When I saw an article that maybe 45% of all so called sinus headaches were really migraines, I finally told the doctors to treat me for migraines with Imitrex. Damn, if I wasn’t right. I had visited the best ENT doctors in my state, and non of them even mentioned or suggested I might be having migraines. The link between the antidepressants was found by me; not the doctors. It shows you that ignorance certainly is not bliss in the case of health — most probably anything. Years ago I insisted I had a herniated spinal disk; the doctors wouldn’t listen. I finally insisted on a mylogram (? sp); yep, I had surgery the next week or so. I’m sure some of the folks who have suffered excruciating migraines with out relief have developed depression because of so much trauma. Treat your depression early if you think you might have it. After the 4th major episode you’ll be on meds the rest of your life if you can tolerate them. I believe mine was expressed early (after Vietnam), but I stayed in denial until chronic pain(my back from later injury and Repetitive Use Syndrome) caught up with me later in life. God bless and good luck to you all. Sincerely — Randy — "the Randyman"
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m particularly interested in what migraine relief medication can be used safely with Remeron. Antidepressants do trigger my migraines, but I’m trying a small dosage of Remeron to help with sleep problems; also, I’m hoping for some partial relief from my pathological condition. All antidepressant medicines seem to trigger migraines when I take enough of the med to actually provide clinical relief; this strange phenomena happened after an Effexor trial. I’ve tried all the ammo out there. I’m damned if I do or don’t take antidepressants now. Oh— I can’t take NSAIDs either; they trigger migraines also. Acetametaphen and oxycodone are my only relief now; it is very little relief most of the time. Thanks for reading, and if you have any suggestions what I should do to get relief for my migraines, please post it. Sincerely — Randyman
Interesting and worth remembering. Thanks for sharing the info. Michelle
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have the same problem with SSRI’s. They give me Chronic Daily Headaches (CDH) and make me more prone to migraines. I finally hit on Seroquel based on some input in this group and it works very well. I’ve also been able to wean onto Lexapro which has done wonders for my depression and a minor feat in it’s own right. Seroquel is an atypical anti-psychotic, but also perscribed for mood stabilization and helps stablize andrenergic charges which often results in CDH. For the first time in my 30+ years, I have a perfect sleep pattern. Worth a try if all else fails. Erik I’m particularly interested in what migraine relief medication can be used safely with Remeron. Antidepressants do trigger my migraines, but I’m trying a small dosage of Remeron to help with sleep problems; also, I’m hoping for some partial relief from my pathological condition. All antidepressant medicines seem to trigger migraines when I take enough of the med to actually provide clinical relief; this strange phenomena happened after an Effexor trial. I’ve tried all the ammo out there. I’m damned if I do or don’t take antidepressants now. Oh— I can’t take NSAIDs either; they trigger migraines also. Acetametaphen and oxycodone are my only relief now; it is very little relief most of the time. Thanks for reading, and if you have any suggestions what I should do to get relief for my migraines, please post it. Sincerely — Randyman
I have the same problem with SSRI’s. They give me Chronic Daily Headaches (CDH) and make me more prone to migraines. I finally hit on Seroquel based on some input in this group and it works very well. I’ve also been able to wean onto Lexapro which has done wonders for my depression and a minor feat in it’s own right. Seroquel is an atypical anti-psychotic, but also perscribed for mood stabilization and helps stablize andrenergic charges which often results in CDH. For the first time in my 30+ years, I have a perfect sleep pattern. Worth a try if all else fails. Erik – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m particularly interested in what migraine relief medication can be used safely with Remeron. Antidepressants do trigger my migraines, but I’m trying a small dosage of Remeron to help with sleep problems; also, I’m hoping for some partial relief from my pathological condition. All antidepressant medicines seem to trigger migraines when I take enough of the med to actually provide clinical relief; this strange phenomena happened after an Effexor trial. I’ve tried all the ammo out there. I’m damned if I do or don’t take antidepressants now. Oh— I can’t take NSAIDs either; they trigger migraines also. Acetametaphen and oxycodone are my only relief now; it is very little relief most of the time. Thanks for reading, and if you have any suggestions what I should do to get relief for my migraines, please post it. Sincerely — Randyman
Have you tried the triptans like Imitrex, Zomig, Maxalt, Frova, Relpax, Amerge, Axert? Also, have you tried Lexapro as an antidepressant. It’s supposed to be a newer, better med. Just some thoughts. Michelle
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m particularly interested in what migraine relief medication can be used safely with Remeron. Antidepressants do trigger my migraines, but I’m trying a small dosage of Remeron to help with sleep problems; also, I’m hoping for some partial relief from my pathological condition. All antidepressant medicines seem to trigger migraines when I take enough of the med to actually provide clinical relief; this strange phenomena happened after an Effexor trial. I’ve tried all the ammo out there. I’m damned if I do or don’t take antidepressants now. Oh— I can’t take NSAIDs either; they trigger migraines also. Acetametaphen and oxycodone are my only relief now; it is very little relief most of the time. Thanks for reading, and if you have any suggestions what I should do to get relief for my migraines, please post it. Sincerely — Randyman
I’m particularly interested in what migraine relief medication can be used safely with Remeron. Antidepressants do trigger my migraines, but I’m trying a small dosage of Remeron to help with sleep problems; also, I’m hoping for some partial relief from my pathological condition. All antidepressant medicines seem to trigger migraines when I take enough of the med to actually provide clinical relief; this strange phenomena happened after an Effexor trial. I’ve tried all the ammo out there. I’m damned if I do or don’t take antidepressants now. Oh— I can’t take NSAIDs either; they trigger migraines also. Acetametaphen and oxycodone are my only relief now; it is very little relief most of the time. Thanks for reading, and if you have any suggestions what I should do to get relief for my migraines, please post it. Sincerely — Randyman
Website Hoax on Killer Virus Triggers Hong Kong Panic Tue April 1, 2003 08:55 AM ET
so???? — Mvh / Regards -=< Christian =- What capital has 164 letters in its name? See my web page to find out. http://www.cmnielsen.dk ICQ: 25308942 " If something’s hard to do, then it’s not worth doing. Homer J. Simpson"
Could it be that "SARS" is just an adverse reaction to the anti-depressant drug Effexor that Wyeth Pharmaceuticals is now pushing in China? Similar symptoms: 1: Am J Respir Crit Care Med 2003 Apr 1;167(7):958-61 Drug-induced Pneumonitis and Heart Failure Simultaneously Associated with Venlafaxine. Drent M, Singh S, Gorgels AP, Hansell DM, Bekers O, Nicholson AG, Van Suylen RJ, Du Bois RM. Department of Respiratory Medicine, University Hospital of Maastricht, Two cases of interstitial pneumonia with cardiac failure developing in patients treated with the new antidepressant venlafaxine are presented. A strong relationship between the development of the patients’ illness and the initiation of venlafaxine treatment was identified. The cytochrome P (CYP) 450 system is involved in the metabolism of venlafaxine, suggesting that alterations in the drug metabolic clearance might be, at least in part, responsible for the development of drug-induced damage in these cases. This might occur either as a consequence of a genetic factor or concomitant drug therapy with an inhibitor of the related CYP system. After identifying the causative agent in the first case, withdrawal of the antidepressant together with corticosteroid treatment led to a favorable outcome. In the other case, the multiorgan failure became fatal. These cases highlight a hitherto undescribed association of an adverse lung reaction and heart failure due to venlafaxine. PMID: 12663337 [PubMed - in process]
Could it be that "SARS" is just an adverse reaction to the anti-depressant drug Effexor that Wyeth Pharmaceuticals is now pushing in China? Similar symptoms:
Yeah, world’s first contagious drug reaction.
Could it be that "SARS" is just an adverse reaction to the anti-depressant drug Effexor that Wyeth Pharmaceuticals is now pushing in China? Similar symptoms: Yeah, world’s first contagious drug reaction.
Is it SARS or is it a reaction to the drug Effexor? Effexor is now being agressively sold in China by Wyeth who claims on its website that it has "superior safety". Yet PubMed shows several reports of severe and fatal Effexor side effects — which at this point mimic symptoms of SARS. Patients taking Effexor need to know.
I can hardly keep my thoughts together today…..I’m not going in to work again today. ….and, when I called in, she tried to make me feel guilty. It’s almost like my hormones override these medications. I become overly sensitive, irritable, paranoid, fearful, anxious, restless…..just to name a few symptoms. I know that stupid depo shot is still in my system. I can feel it. I don’t have anything to grip on to, and this is a horrible feeling. Maybe that’s why that show Greed kept my heart pounding last night. I know this will go away in a few days, but what do I do in the meantime? I haven’t done a "pity party" post for awhile, so I guess it was overdue. My doc is out of town AGAIN for the weekend….. I feel like Sharyn today…..I just want to cry. 
( Maria
Thanks Chip, I really like these articles…. For anyone interested, or that has PMS problems… I took the other half of my celexa pill the other day, (because of feeling horrible, and PMS) and noticed quite immediate effects….as I was laying down for a nap, I realized she had given me 40 mg. tabs, which I break in half so they last me 2 months, or so that I can increase to 40 if I want to. So, it turns out I’ve been taking double my usual dosage these past couple days. (It never occurred to me, because I always broke my paxil in half). Well, the funny part is when I did this once before, not during PMS…..I was so tired, I could barely walk. This time, I feel great…..no PMS symptoms!! Today I feel very calm….and, even spent the day at the mall with some friends, (which usually makes me cranky being around crowds for long periods of time). I wasn’t a bit irritated…and, before the extra celexa I was a wreck. Now, I’m curious to see the effect it will have on me after my period….if it will be too high of a dose. I really like this 40 mg. right now. Just an interesting self observation of my situation…. Bye, Maria
: : Valerie Davis Raskin, MD, wrote a very good book titled, : "When Words Are Not Enough; The Women’s Prescription for : Depression and Anxiety." The book is not too expensive : and written for the general public, so you may want to : buy a copy via Amazon or some other book shop. It covers : a lot of issues that are important to women who suffer : from anxiety and depression. : : Thankyou for that information Arthur. I remember it being one of the trivia : questions, but I didn’t know what it was about. : Maria I had originally bought the book for my mother. However, she didn’t read it at first (being very psychoanalysis oriented) so I borrowed it for a while. The book is very practical; with chapters on sex, pregnancy, menstral cycles, etc. It addresses medication questions that I often see posted here in ASAP and has some nice tables on medications. I’m tempted to buy a copy for my own little anxiety-panic library. Which reminds me, mom still has my copy of Sheehan. I ought to start distributing library cards (grin). Best Wishes, Arthur
Biological Therapies in Psychiatry Alan J. Gelenberg, M.D. Treating PMS While most women experience some physical and emotional changes premenstrually, a minority are clinically impaired by the premenstrual syndrome (PMS). For ages, unproven and largely ineffectual remedies were promulgated. In recent years, however, greater methodologic rigor has enhanced clinical research on this condition. Better still, the advent of the serotonin-selective reuptake inhibitor (SSRI) antidepressants has shown that medication can alleviate PMS symptoms and reverse dysfunction. Several recent reviews present evidence and knowledgeable opinions on treating PMS. Dr Walter Brown notes that SSRIs have a much more rapid onset of action when used to treat PMS than when the same drugs are used to treat depression. (1) PMS symptoms improve almost immediately, while depressive symptoms typically take several weeks to lift. This author also observes that while serotonergic, noradrenergic, and other agents appear equal in efficacy when treating depression, only highly serotonergic antidepressants are effective for PMS. Further evidence for the role of serotonin in PMS is that tryptophan, the essential amino acid that serves as a dietary precursor for serotonin, and fenfluramine (Pondimin and Redux), which stimulates serotonin neurotransmission, also appear effective against PMS. Moreover, women with PMS show abnormalities in blood serotonin. What about other antidepressants? Yonkers and Brown write about an ongoing, multicenter trial of venlafaxine (Effexor) for premenstrual dysphoric disorder (PMDD). (2) Venlafaxine can be started at 25 mg bid to manage side effects and then increased by 25 to 37.5 mg/day each cycle until remission is achieved. Investigators hope venlafaxine’s rapid onset of action will be beneficial in this type of intermittent disorder. An open trial suggested that nefazodone (Serzone) may be effective against PMDD or premenstrual exacerbation (PME) of a preexisting mood disorder when administered in daily doses of 200 to 500 mg throughout the menstrual cycle. Anxiolytic agents too might have a role to play. Limited data suggest possible efficacy for buspirone (Buspar). Yonkers and Brown also use alprazolam (Xanax) for women with mild PMS symptoms of limited duration. They recommend a starting dose of 0.25 mg bid or tid, increased as needed. In many studies of drugs to treat PMS, agents are administered daily throughout the month. But some women appear to benefit from taking a drug only during the premenstrual week or starting with the first symptom and ending with the beginning of menses. For example, clomipramine (Anafranil) is efficacious when administered only in the luteal phase of the menstrual cycle. Although there are no systematic data on the long-term use of drugs for premenstrual disorders, Yonkers and Brown state that symptom relief appears to be maintained. What else can be done to combat PMS symptoms? Pearlstein cites recommendations to increase complex carbohydrate consumption. (3) When combined with more frequent meals, this strategy might enhance cerebral uptake of tryptophan, thereby making more serotonin available. Some women find exercise alleviates symptoms. Other nonpharmacologic strategies include cognitive behavioral therapy and relaxation training. When symptoms of PMS, PMDD, or PME rise to the level of clinical significance, serotonergic antidepressants often can bring relief, with dosage and timing individualized for each patient. Recommendations for diet, exercise, and other nonpharmacologic strategies — as alternatives or additions to drug treatment — also can be considered based on preferences and circumstances. (1) Brown WA: PMS: A quiet breakthrough. Psychiatr Ann 1996; 26: 569-570. (2) Yonkers KA, Brown WA: Pharmacologic treatments for premenstrual dysphoric disorder. Psychiatr Ann 1996; 26: 586-589. (3) Pearlstein T: Nonpharmacologic treatment of premenstrual syndrome. Psychiatr Ann 1996; 26: 590-594.
Thanks Chip, I’m actually saving this in my files. BTW, I do feel much better today, and will from now on increase my celexa dose during PMS. I’ve actually learned a lot over the last couple of days. I apologize if I snapped anyone’s head off in the meantime. Bye, Maria – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Int Clin Psychopharmacol 1999 May;14 Suppl 2:S27-33 Serotonin reuptake inhibitors for the treatment of premenstrual dysphoria. Eriksson E Department of Pharmacology, Goteborg University, Sweden. Premenstrual dysphoria (PMD) is a severe form of premenstrual syndrome, afflicting approximately 5% of all women of fertile age. The cardinal symptoms are irritability and anger. In addition, sadness, tension and carbohydrate craving are common complaints. The symptoms surface regularly between ovulation and menstruation, and disappear completely within a few days after the onset of the bleeding; in patients with remaining symptoms during the follicular phase, alternative diagnoses should be considered. In a large number of recent trials, serotonin reuptake inhibitors (clomipramine, citalopram, fluoxetine, paroxetine, sertraline) have been shown to reduce the symptoms of PMD much more effectively than placebo; in contrast, non-serotonergic antidepressants (maprotiline, bupropion) appear to be ineffective. Interestingly, the onset of action of clomipramine and selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs) is much shorter when used for PMD than when used for depression, panic disorder, or obsessive-compulsive disorder. Consequently, patients with PMD can restrict the medication to the luteal phase of the cycle. In a recent placebo-controlled trial, intermittent administration of the SSRI citalopram was shown to reduce the symptoms of PMD significantly better than placebo, but also better than continuous administration of the drug. A reasonable interpretation of the latter, unexpected finding is that continuous medication may be associated with a certain development of tolerance than can be avoided by intermittent drug administration. The observation that the symptoms of PMD may be effectively reduced by SSRIs is of considerable clinical importance since previously no effective treatment for this common condition – apart from those disrupting ovarian cyclicity – has been available. It is also of theoretical importance because it constitutes one of the first pharmacological observations supporting the concept that serotonin may dampen irritability and anger in humans. PMID: 10471170, UI: 99397771
Int Clin Psychopharmacol 1999 May;14 Suppl 2:S27-33 Serotonin reuptake inhibitors for the treatment of premenstrual dysphoria. Eriksson E Department of Pharmacology, Goteborg University, Sweden. Premenstrual dysphoria (PMD) is a severe form of premenstrual syndrome, afflicting approximately 5% of all women of fertile age. The cardinal symptoms are irritability and anger. In addition, sadness, tension and carbohydrate craving are common complaints. The symptoms surface regularly between ovulation and menstruation, and disappear completely within a few days after the onset of the bleeding; in patients with remaining symptoms during the follicular phase, alternative diagnoses should be considered. In a large number of recent trials, serotonin reuptake inhibitors (clomipramine, citalopram, fluoxetine, paroxetine, sertraline) have been shown to reduce the symptoms of PMD much more effectively than placebo; in contrast, non-serotonergic antidepressants (maprotiline, bupropion) appear to be ineffective. Interestingly, the onset of action of clomipramine and selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs) is much shorter when used for PMD than when used for depression, panic disorder, or obsessive-compulsive disorder. Consequently, patients with PMD can restrict the medication to the luteal phase of the cycle. In a recent placebo-controlled trial, intermittent administration of the SSRI citalopram was shown to reduce the symptoms of PMD significantly better than placebo, but also better than continuous administration of the drug. A reasonable interpretation of the latter, unexpected finding is that continuous medication may be associated with a certain development of tolerance than can be avoided by intermittent drug administration. The observation that the symptoms of PMD may be effectively reduced by SSRIs is of considerable clinical importance since previously no effective treatment for this common condition – apart from those disrupting ovarian cyclicity – has been available. It is also of theoretical importance because it constitutes one of the first pharmacological observations supporting the concept that serotonin may dampen irritability and anger in humans. PMID: 10471170, UI: 99397771
its been documented that ssri’s and benzo’s blood plasma levels change when women ovulate and vice versa when they don’t-since you are changing your bodies ability to ovulate the plasma levels may drop somewhat-you may want to ask your doc to augment some benzo or ad meds with your next shot-medroxyprogesterone acetate is a known sensitizer of depression-you can just try and pamper yourself until the effects slough off LM
Margrove, you hit the nail on the head again. I took extra celexa today, thinking at least it will do "something." (I don’t think she’s gonna go for increasing my benzos, and I don’t want to ask her to), but I had a really nice nap, and feel better. That is a very very very good idea. I think I will increase my celexa during this time of the month. It was a one time shot (depression is putting it mildly, I was thinking of ways to end my life). It is still in my system, and I can feel the effects during this time of the month. Thanks, Maria
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Maria, Being male, I can’t personally relate to PMS, but the hormonal character of panic disorder has given me some appreciation of the subject. Valerie Davis Raskin, MD, wrote a very good book titled, "When Words Are Not Enough; The Women’s Prescription for Depression and Anxiety." The book is not too expensive and written for the general public, so you may want to buy a copy via Amazon or some other book shop. It covers a lot of issues that are important to women who suffer from anxiety and depression. Best Wishes, Arthur
Thankyou for that information Arthur. I remember it being one of the trivia questions, but I didn’t know what it was about. Maria
its been documented that ssri’s and benzo’s blood plasma levels change when women ovulate and vice versa when they don’t-since you are changing your bodies ability to ovulate the plasma levels may drop somewhat-you may want to ask your doc to augment some benzo or ad meds with your next shot-medroxyprogesterone acetate is a known sensitizer of depression-you can just try and pamper yourself until the effects slough off LM
Maria – YIKES…..deprovera. I’ve heard enough nightmare stories from my two daughters and my soon-to-be daughter-in-law. All three have had unpleasant reactions to it and some very unpleasant effects getting off.
Hi Cindy, For the first time since I got this shot, I feel that "someone understands." My face actually lit up while reading this. (not that they had to go through the horrid mess, but that I’m not alone). It was a one time shot…..that was enough…it just about killed me. (literally). Thankyou for the information!! Maria – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I can hardly keep my thoughts together today…..I’m not going in to work again today. ….and, when I called in, she tried to make me feel guilty. It’s almost like my hormones override these medications. I become overly sensitive, irritable, paranoid, fearful, anxious, restless…..just to name a few symptoms. I know that stupid depo shot is still in my system. I can feel it. I don’t have anything to grip on to, and this is a horrible feeling. Maybe that’s why that show Greed kept my heart pounding last night. I know this will go away in a few days, but what do I do in the meantime? I haven’t done a "pity party" post for awhile, so I guess it was overdue. My doc is out of town AGAIN for the weekend….. I feel like Sharyn today…..I just want to cry. ( Maria Maria – YIKES…..deprovera. I’ve heard enough nightmare stories from my two daughters and my soon-to-be daughter-in-law. All three have had unpleasant reactions to it and some very unpleasant effects getting off. It might be of some comfort to know that your emotional reaction to the provera in depovera is typical. Also know that symptoms of normalizing can go on for 18mo to two years. The progesterone in depovera is a chemically synthesized progestin, not natural hormone and SOME people are terribly sensitive to it. The good news is that although it’s EXTREMELY uncomfortable, kind of like your skin wants to walk off your body and your brain wants to escape, it DOES eventually go away. Some months you may find your own production of hormones will fluctuate and some months may be worse than others. Other chemically synthesized birth control hormones can have the same effect and even when stopped it can take up to and longer than a year to normalize your natural horomes. So you aren’t going crazy, it’s just the hormones talking and it WILL go away. for more information about what you, in your particular situation, can do to help yourself get right sooner…a book I highly recommend (easy read too)…. "Hormonal Health" Michael Colgan, MD. Hope this helps KC Cindy
: I can hardly keep my thoughts together today…..I’m not going in to work again : today. ….and, when I called in, she tried to make me feel guilty. It’s : almost like my hormones override these medications. I become overly sensitive, : irritable, paranoid, fearful, anxious, restless…..just to name a few : symptoms. I know that stupid depo shot is still in my system. I can feel it. : : I don’t have anything to grip on to, and this is a horrible feeling. Maybe : that’s why that show Greed kept my heart pounding last night. : I know this will go away in a few days, but what do I do in the meantime? : I haven’t done a "pity party" post for awhile, so I guess it was overdue. : My doc is out of town AGAIN for the weekend….. : I feel like Sharyn today…..I just want to cry. : ( : Maria Hi Maria, Being male, I can’t personally relate to PMS, but the hormonal character of panic disorder has given me some appreciation of the subject. Valerie Davis Raskin, MD, wrote a very good book titled, "When Words Are Not Enough; The Women’s Prescription for Depression and Anxiety." The book is not too expensive and written for the general public, so you may want to buy a copy via Amazon or some other book shop. It covers a lot of issues that are important to women who suffer from anxiety and depression. Best Wishes, Arthur
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I can hardly keep my thoughts together today…..I’m not going in to work again today. ….and, when I called in, she tried to make me feel guilty. It’s almost like my hormones override these medications. I become overly sensitive, irritable, paranoid, fearful, anxious, restless…..just to name a few symptoms. I know that stupid depo shot is still in my system. I can feel it. I don’t have anything to grip on to, and this is a horrible feeling. Maybe that’s why that show Greed kept my heart pounding last night. I know this will go away in a few days, but what do I do in the meantime? I haven’t done a "pity party" post for awhile, so I guess it was overdue. My doc is out of town AGAIN for the weekend….. I feel like Sharyn today…..I just want to cry. ( Maria
Maria – YIKES…..deprovera. I’ve heard enough nightmare stories from my two daughters and my soon-to-be daughter-in-law. All three have had unpleasant reactions to it and some very unpleasant effects getting off. It might be of some comfort to know that your emotional reaction to the provera in depovera is typical. Also know that symptoms of normalizing can go on for 18mo to two years. The progesterone in depovera is a chemically synthesized progestin, not natural hormone and SOME people are terribly sensitive to it. The good news is that although it’s EXTREMELY uncomfortable, kind of like your skin wants to walk off your body and your brain wants to escape, it DOES eventually go away. Some months you may find your own production of hormones will fluctuate and some months may be worse than others. Other chemically synthesized birth control hormones can have the same effect and even when stopped it can take up to and longer than a year to normalize your natural horomes. So you aren’t going crazy, it’s just the hormones talking and it WILL go away. for more information about what you, in your particular situation, can do to help yourself get right sooner…a book I highly recommend (easy read too)…. "Hormonal Health" Michael Colgan, MD. Hope this helps KC Cindy
Has anybody experienced anti-depressants making back pain worse? Or knocking out the narcotic? Regards, Dave
I have noticed the pain being repressed and then causing an emotional breakdown from the repressed pain reappearing and causing an emotional overload. Terry
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Has anybody experienced anti-depressants making back pain worse? Or knocking out the narcotic? Regards, Dave
I’ve taken Elavil, an old tricyclic (amitryptaline –sp?), which helped me sleep through the night when taken at bedtime, as drowsiness is one of its side effects and the sole purpose for which I took it. I also took Zyban (Wellbutrin) for about 2 months to help me quit smoking, and it had no perceptible effect on my pain or pain meds (I DID quit smoking though, September 1, 1998, 4pm, WAY more easily than prior failed quitting efforts, but I digress). I’ve HEARD that some of the selective seratonin reuptake inhibitors, like Prozac, Zoloft, etc., can have such a stimulating effect with some people that it could be considered to "negate" the narcotic (to me, a major function of narcotic painkillers is to instill a "what the fuck" attitude toward the pain rather than actually reducing the pain per se, so anything messing with that WTF effect would make my perception of the pain worse.) I DO know that antidepressant prescribing is a far-from-exact science (one could use the term "buckshot" were one cranky), so I suggest you discuss this with your doc and try a different sort of antidepressant. Hell, worsened pain is enough to depress anyone, so I can’t imagine your doc not being willing to experiment with a different sort. May I indulge my prurient curiosity and ask which AD is having this effect on you? Inquiring minds want to know . . . Hope you get the relief you’re entitled to, and soon ATB Louise
Greetings all, I take 50 mg of Zoloft once a day, but not for my back pain. I was originally put on it when I had some depression over my medical condition(s), and although it doesn’t seem to make a diffference with the amount of relief I get from my narcotic medications, I feel better able to cope with my situation, and it has helped my appetite. I went off of it for a few weeks, and became more irritable {i.e. bursting into tears and feeling "why me?"} and did not want to eat. Maybe this is just a psychological reaction on my part…but others that I know using Zoloft and other SSRI’s report the same "better able to cope" benefit. A side note however, taking it when I get up in the morning seems to work best. If it is taken at night, it can interfere with sleep…I had trouble staying asleep and when I did get to sleep, I had *very* strange dreams. I have tried Elavil, but could not tolerate it. I had severe neck spasms and a very "disjointed" feeling {think of the Sudafed "medicine head" effect in the commercials}. Wishing everyone a tolerable pain day. All the best, Lily Human (n): domestic animal popular with cats *remove the editorial comment on AOL service from the address to send me e-mail*
Has anybody experienced anti-depressants making back pain worse? Or knocking out the narcotic? Regards, Dave
Zoloft (sertraline) made my pain worse. I believe that SSRI antidepressants like Zoloft are less effective for this purpose than the older TCAs (Elavil, etc.). These can be of SOME help but must be taken on a continuous basis and the side effects can be pretty bad (I took doxepin for some years and discontinued it because of these). As you suggest, it also seemed to negate the effect of codeine.
I have been on many differant anti-deppressants along w/ my pain meds w/ varying results. The docs always told me that the combinations would "help" my headaches. The only real help I get is the ms contin or sleep (much benedryl) I belive I still need the anti depressants tho because the view over the railings on 10th flr + sure look inviting. Walk Gently Upon Mother Earth Peter **** Posted from RemarQ – http://www.remarq.com – Discussions Start Here ™ ****
Hi Peter, My mother took Elavil for a very long time for her migraines and it made a huge difference for her. Instead of having to go to the ER twice a month for injections of Demerol or Dilaudid, it went down to maybe once every six months to a year!!!!! Due to the Elavil causing weight gain, she was switched to Prozac, which has also done a great job at controlling her headaches. I belive I still need the anti depressants tho because the view over the railings on 10th flr + sure look inviting.
PLEASE, don’t go over there anymore!! We want you here!!!! Robin I have been on many differant anti-deppressants along w/ my pain meds w/ varying results. The docs always told me that the combinations would "help" my headaches. The only real help I get is the ms contin or sleep (much benedryl) I belive I still need the anti depressants tho because the view over the railings on 10th flr + sure look inviting.
I am in no way a physician or any other type of medical professional. I am just speaking from personal experience or information gained during my treatment or research ;o). Remove NOSPAM from the above email address to contact me.
Has anybody experienced anti-depressants making back pain worse? Or knocking out the narcotic? Regards, Dave
I have. I’m taking 2 antidepressants, Respiridol, and Dyseril. They really put me to sleep, but the pain is intense when I wake up every 30 minutes. Before the Dr. prescribed that combo (along with Zoloft), my pain med seemed to last a hell of a lot longer. Alex
The antidepressant venlafaxine (Effexor) is similar in its pharmacology to Meridia, yet it isn’t scheduled. The antidepressant bupropion Wellbutrin) is arguably more of a "stimulant" than sibutramine, yet isn’t scheduled. (I’m not arguing that either *should* be, of course.) Both butorphanol (Stadol) and tramadol (Ultram) are so-called "non-narcotic" analgesics which can cause dependence and abuse, yet they aren’t scheduled. It’s clear that an indication of obesity is enough of a bogeyman to the DEA that they’ll schedule first and worry about it later.
It was clear to Knoll that obesity was enough of a bogeyman. I spoke to some of their folks just before the press conference announcing the market date. They knew they couldn’t fight the Schedule 4 classification. If they could have, it would have been much easier to market. For one thing, they could have given physicians samples. This is a no-no in scheduled drugs. Barbara Barbara Hirsch, Publisher Obesity Meds and Research News OMR Web Site: http://www.obesity-news.com
Perhaps once enough experience is gained with it, it will be removed from the DEA Schedules.
Has anything ever been unscheduled? I recall a bunch of unscheduled going scheduled (clonipin, soma, etc), but none going the other way. — dc potts biologist at large (pull the nospam out of my email address to respond)
Do you have any idea why Meridia is scheduled? It isn’t addictive, is it?
There’s no evidence that sibutramine has any abuse potential, but the fact that it is psychoactive and that it has (in some individuals) somewhat of a stimulating action AND that it is prescribed for obesity, was enough for the DEA to classify it as C-IV. Their thinking is obviously to be as careful and restrictive as possible at the drug’s introduction, rather than risk the possibility of releasing a drug unscheduled, only to find that it has a degree of abuse potential. Perhaps once enough experience is gained with it, it will be removed from the DEA Schedules. The antidepressant venlafaxine (Effexor) is similar in its pharmacology to Meridia, yet it isn’t scheduled. The antidepressant bupropion Wellbutrin) is arguably more of a "stimulant" than sibutramine, yet isn’t scheduled. (I’m not arguing that either *should* be, of course.) Both butorphanol (Stadol) and tramadol (Ultram) are so-called "non-narcotic" analgesics which can cause dependence and abuse, yet they aren’t scheduled. It’s clear that an indication of obesity is enough of a bogeyman to the DEA that they’ll schedule first and worry about it later. — Steve Dyer
Now the DEA isn’t going to know whether a doctor sees the patient or not by the prescription, but if a doctor is prescribing huge amounts of a drug, that could trigger an investigation. Then if the DEA investigates and finds irregularities in records, the doctor has a problem.
Wow. I wish we could get rid of this whole stupid prescription system. Vigara is not scheduled, but Meridia is (not that it should be, but that’s another post).
Stupid inconsistencies like this are one reason. What’s the big deal about going to a doctor a couple of times a year and getting a prescription? That’s what I do.
Why should we have to? Why should I have to ask someone else, and pay them, for permission to put something into my own body? And the people who make the laws that dictate what I can and cannot take often have no more medical knowledge than what I scoop out of the cat box. J — Tonight we’re going to party like it’s 1899. Remove the X to email me.
Vigara is not scheduled, but Meridia is (not that it should be, but that’s another post). I wondered why I see Viagra offered everywhere, and not Meridia. That explains it. Do you have any idea why Meridia is scheduled? It isn’t addictive, is it?
Another reason you don’t see Meridia everywhere is that it’s expensive, and not a very effective drug. It’s scheduled, because there is no anorectic drug with any CNS stimulating qualities at all which the FDA will approve without scheduling it. Meridia isn’t that different than Effexor and Wellbutrin which aren’t scheduled. Per Glen Rickards’ post, Meridia isn’t all that similar to fenflruamine. Fen both releases and inhibits the reuptake of serotonin, Meridia is just a serotonin uptake inhibitor. It also works on norepinephrine. Barbara Barbara Hirsch, Publisher Obesity Meds and Research News OMR Web Site: http://www.obesity-news.com
I have heard, but have not independently verified, that Meridia is chemically similar to fenfluramine. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Vigara is not scheduled, but Meridia is (not that it should be, but that’s another post). I wondered why I see Viagra offered everywhere, and not Meridia. That explains it. Do you have any idea why Meridia is scheduled? It isn’t addictive, is it? AB
Vigara is not scheduled, but Meridia is (not that it should be, but that’s another post).
I wondered why I see Viagra offered everywhere, and not Meridia. That explains it. Do you have any idea why Meridia is scheduled? It isn’t addictive, is it? AB
Yes, that is exactly what I am looking for. Meridia totally online. Viagra is available through www.Focus-Medical.com
It is not wise to get medications without an exam (especially the first time), and it is questionable whether it is legal. Very few doctors would be willing to prescribe schedule 4 drugs without seeing patients first, since the physician must submit his DEA identification number with each prescription. If the DEA sees irregularities it can rip the license. Now the DEA isn’t going to know whether a doctor sees the patient or not by the prescription, but if a doctor is prescribing huge amounts of a drug, that could trigger an investigation. Then if the DEA investigates and finds irregularities in records, the doctor has a problem. Vigara is not scheduled, but Meridia is (not that it should be, but that’s another post). The only doctor I’m aware of who ever prescribed drugs on-line is now undergoing a DEA investigation after a raid on his office last year. And he doesn’t prescribe Meridia anyway. Most states have regulations allowing doctors to prescribe without seeing a patient, but the intent of the law is so that a physician can prescribe something to an existing patient who for one reason or another cannot come into the office. The intent of the law is not for doctors to become "drug stores", for writing a prescription for a fee. My guess is that states will begin clarifying their laws, and the DEA case mentioned above will probably bring some direction as well. What’s the big deal about going to a doctor a couple of times a year and getting a prescription? That’s what I do. I’ve been taking phentermine for over two years, so there probably wouldn’t be any danger if my doctor didn’t see me. But I still think it’s worth it to get checked out once in a while. Barbara Barbara Hirsch, Publisher Obesity Meds and Research News OMR Web Site: http://www.obesity-news.com
Yes, that is exactly what I am looking for. Meridia totally online. Viagra is available through www.Focus-Medical.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think what they are looking for is a doctor that will give them a script after a phone consulation. I saw a news story on people getting viagra this way, they find these places on the net, they call and talk to a doc, or maybe they call you, ask you a few questions and then give you a ’script. without ever seeing a doc in person. and it’s all perfectly legal. Tricia C. 322/276/159 (new scale –adjusted numbers) 46 lbs lost on Atkins since May 26, 1998 <<I am looking for an online source for a prescription and fill for Meridia. I have been told that Viagra is available online with a Doctors consultation and a prescription. I am looking for the same service for Meridia. Thanks **Well..if you had a doctors consultation..wouldnt you have a doctors perscription..??** Just Me, Lisa. "I’m not fat..I’m big boned!" -Eric Cartman- *SouthPark* PCOS the silent Disease << http://www.pcosupport.org
I think what they are looking for is a doctor that will give them a script after a phone consulation. I saw a news story on people getting viagra this way, they find these places on the net, they call and talk to a doc, or maybe they call you, ask you a few questions and then give you a ’script. without ever seeing a doc in person. and it’s all perfectly legal. Tricia C. 322/276/159 (new scale –adjusted numbers) 46 lbs lost on Atkins since May 26, 1998 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <<I am looking for an online source for a prescription and fill for Meridia. I have been told that Viagra is available online with a Doctors consultation and a prescription. I am looking for the same service for Meridia. Thanks **Well..if you had a doctors consultation..wouldnt you have a doctors perscription..??** Just Me, Lisa. "I’m not fat..I’m big boned!" -Eric Cartman- *SouthPark* PCOS the silent Disease << http://www.pcosupport.org
<<I am looking for an online source for a prescription and fill for Meridia. I have been told that Viagra is available online with a Doctors consultation and a prescription. I am looking for the same service for Meridia. Thanks **Well..if you had a doctors consultation..wouldnt you have a doctors perscription..??** Just Me, Lisa. "I’m not fat..I’m big boned!" -Eric Cartman- *SouthPark* PCOS the silent Disease << http://www.pcosupport.org
I am looking for an online source for a prescription and fill for Meridia. I have been told that Viagra is available online with a Doctors consultation and a prescription. I am looking for the same service for Meridia. Thanks
The antidepressant venlafaxine (Effexor) is similar in its pharmacology to Meridia, yet it isn’t scheduled. The antidepressant bupropion Wellbutrin) is arguably more of a "stimulant" than sibutramine, yet isn’t scheduled. (I’m not arguing that either *should* be, of course.) Both butorphanol (Stadol) and tramadol (Ultram) are so-called "non-narcotic" analgesics which can cause dependence and abuse, yet they aren’t scheduled. It’s clear that an indication of obesity is enough of a bogeyman to the DEA that they’ll schedule first and worry about it later.
A couple of corrections, here. In two states, Wellbutrin (bupropion), in its regular release form (not SR or the Zyban formulation), IS scheduled, the equiavlent of Schedule IV (Utah & Washington states). The reason Ultram & Stadol aren’t scheduled because the formulations have such strong narcotic antagonist properties (give either to an opiate/opioid addict and watch them go into withdrawal). Basically, Meridia is schedule IV for the same reason Redux was — because somewhere someone mentioned that these drugs are essentially amphetamine deriviatives, and the FDA/DEA has it’s standard reaction – over-regulation. Of course, if you look at the federal schedules, you’ll see a much stronger trend toward controlling stimulants that depressants (Morphine notwithstanding). I mean we’ve got drugs like Valium at Schedule IV, but a useful stimulant like phentermine at schedule III. Typical. I think most of this will become academic in the next five years as the newer anti-obsesity drugs come out that have absolutely no relationship to stimulants or any stimulant activity. Zenical, and it’s close relatives merely change the way fat is processed in the body, so hopefully access to these drugs won’t be limited by unnecessary regulation. — Rob Bowling, PharmD (and Meridia patient)
I had written that I had seen a report indicating CHEMICAL similarity between fen and Meridia. You appear to be talking about differences in the pharmacological effect. Chemical similarity doesn’t always imply identical pharmacology, but rather, relates to the structure and composition of the molecule.
Well, sibutramine is not particularly chemically similar to fenfluramine. — Steve Dyer
I had written that I had seen a report indicating CHEMICAL similarity between fen and Meridia. You appear to be talking about differences in the pharmacological effect. Chemical similarity doesn’t always imply identical pharmacology, but rather, relates to the structure and composition of the molecule. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Per Glen Rickards’ post, Meridia isn’t all that similar to fenflruamine. Fen both releases and inhibits the reuptake of serotonin, Meridia is just a serotonin uptake inhibitor. It also works on norepinephrine. Barbara Barbara Hirsch, Publisher Obesity Meds and Research News OMR Web Site: http://www.obesity-news.com
There’s no evidence that sibutramine has any abuse potential, but the fact that it is psychoactive and that it has (in some individuals) somewhat of a stimulating action AND that it is prescribed for obesity, was enough for the DEA to classify it as C-IV.
What does psychoactive mean, exactly? When I hear the word I think of LSD, or similar drugs, but it must have a broader definition. AB
Just a couple of corrections to your corrections 
Stadol IS scheduled (C-IV). That’s correct. But this is relatively recent, so I can be excused for having old information. In fact, my original comments which this guy tried to correct were made a while ago; I didn’t see his article in the newsgroup. Speaking of Stadol, the mixed agonist/antagonist dezocine (Dalgan) is not scheduled at all, and it is the most morphine-like (highest mu-opioid activity) of any of the mixed agonist-antagonists. Dezocine makes Stadol look like Tylenol. Stadol would never have been scheduled if it hadn’t been made available in a non-injected dosage form (nasal spray) which caused it to be prescribed more widely than it had been been in the previous 15 years. Mixed agonist/antagonists which must be injected are almost by definition rarely misused, because they’re infrequently found outside hospitals, and the population of outpatients prescribed them is very small. There’s nothing like lack of use to promote lack of abuse. I’m sure that dezocine follows this same pattern. In fact, the whole idea of a mixed agonist/antagonist being less abusable than, say, codeine, a C-II drug, is a thoroughly discredited 1960’s-era notion. But it lives on in the current DEA schedules (only recently has this caught up to Stadol, but only after hoardes of formerly respectable people prescribed the drug started to like it a bit too much.) The scheduling of Meridia, which has absolutely no abuse potential (or IMO any effect at all, for that matter) is really hysterical, especially in light of the fact that it’s pharmacodynamically identical to venlafaxine. Which shows you just how much the DEA cares about pharmacology. What amazes me is how little is understood about bupropion’s mechanism even after years of research. Yup. And I’m astonished that any state would think of placing it under any controls at all. It really doesn’t have any abuse potential. Since this is a weight loss med newsgroup, it’s probably worth pointing out that bupropion causes anorexia and weight loss in a pretty high percentage of subjects. It’s actually vastly superior to sibutramine or venlafaxine in this regard. I’ve tried it, and really didn’t notice any anorectic effect worth getting excited over. The ones who lose their appetite on bupropion are usually 95 lb. grandmothers, not those of us who would benefit from such an effect! BTW, Ultram is not an antagonist. Both tramadol and its primary metabolite are pure, albeit weak, agonists. Correct. This guy is a Pharm. D.? — Steve Dyer
Since this is a weight loss med newsgroup, it’s probably worth pointing out that bupropion causes anorexia and weight loss in a pretty high percentage of subjects. It’s actually vastly superior to sibutramine or venlafaxine in this regard.
Hmmm, that would explain why I didn’t have the urge to stuff my face when I was using Zyban to quit smoking. In fact, some folks I know even lost weight while quitting smoking on Zyban. Of course, once I went off of it, my weight started going up rapidly … — KC 196/189 (again)/135 Eating smarter since 8/8/98 — exercising since 9/15/98 (reduced calorie/reduced fat/increased protein/low-glycemic/high-fiber/vegetarian WOE)
The scheduling of Meridia, which has absolutely no abuse potential (or IMO any effect at all, for that matter) is really hysterical, especially in light of the fact that it’s pharmacodynamically identical to venlafaxine.
A few people have commented on their weight loss success using Effexor. Does the above statement indicate that someone who’s tried Meridia and not seen any effect would not benefit from Effexor either?
Just a couple of corrections to your corrections Stadol IS scheduled (C-IV). Phentermine is C-IV, not C-III. C-III anorexiants include phendimetrazine and benzphetamine, which are rarely prescribed. Both are more effective than phentermine. Speaking of Stadol, the mixed agonist/antagonist dezocine (Dalgan) is not scheduled at all, and it is the most morphine-like (highest mu-opioid activity) of any of the mixed agonist-antagonists. Dezocine makes Stadol look like Tylenol. The scheduling of Meridia, which has absolutely no abuse potential (or IMO any effect at all, for that matter) is really hysterical, especially in light of the fact that it’s pharmacodynamically identical to venlafaxine. With respect to bupropion (Wellbutrin), even though animal models intended to screen for "abusability" (self-administration, drug discrimination, etc.) show that it has this property, in humans, it doesn’t seem to have that effect. In blind studies comparing 30 mg d-amphetamine, 200 mg bupropion (immediate release), and placebo, experienced stimulant abusers could not distinguish bupropion from placebo, while they reliably picked d-amphetamine every time. The structural similarity to diethylpropion is well known, but bupropion apparently does not provoke transmitter release as amphetamine analogs generally do. What amazes me is how little is understood about bupropion’s mechanism even after years of research. Since this is a weight loss med newsgroup, it’s probably worth pointing out that bupropion causes anorexia and weight loss in a pretty high percentage of subjects. It’s actually vastly superior to sibutramine or venlafaxine in this regard. BTW, Ultram is not an antagonist. Both tramadol and its primary metabolite are pure, albeit weak, agonists.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The antidepressant venlafaxine (Effexor) is similar in its pharmacology to Meridia, yet it isn’t scheduled. The antidepressant bupropion Wellbutrin) is arguably more of a "stimulant" than sibutramine, yet isn’t scheduled. (I’m not arguing that either *should* be, of course.) Both butorphanol (Stadol) and tramadol (Ultram) are so-called "non-narcotic" analgesics which can cause dependence and abuse, yet they aren’t scheduled. It’s clear that an indication of obesity is enough of a bogeyman to the DEA that they’ll schedule first and worry about it later. A couple of corrections, here. In two states, Wellbutrin (bupropion), in its regular release form (not SR or the Zyban formulation), IS scheduled, the equiavlent of Schedule IV (Utah & Washington states). The reason Ultram & Stadol aren’t scheduled because the formulations have such strong narcotic antagonist properties (give either to an opiate/opioid addict and watch them go into withdrawal). Basically, Meridia is schedule IV for the same reason Redux was — because somewhere someone mentioned that these drugs are essentially amphetamine deriviatives, and the FDA/DEA has it’s standard reaction – over-regulation. Of course, if you look at the federal schedules, you’ll see a much stronger trend toward controlling stimulants that depressants (Morphine notwithstanding). I mean we’ve got drugs like Valium at Schedule IV, but a useful stimulant like phentermine at schedule III. Typical. I think most of this will become academic in the next five years as the newer anti-obsesity drugs come out that have absolutely no relationship to stimulants or any stimulant activity. Zenical, and it’s close relatives merely change the way fat is processed in the body, so hopefully access to these drugs won’t be limited by unnecessary regulation. — Rob Bowling, PharmD (and Meridia patient)
You are right: you are best judge of what your body is up to. I now insist my doctor let me titrate. I leave each session with an upper dose I cannot exceed. There is also a suggested rate of increase I should not exceed (fat chance). Then I increase at the rate which is comfortable for me. (Reverse holds true for going off meds.) I note you’ve been on the new stuff only. Is there a reason you haven’t tried tricyclics or MAOIs? Some people report mircles from them, when the new SSRIs and variation are unsuccessful. Good luck. Stuck
Well…..I’ve tried eight AD’s …..First was zoloft..did that for 8 months, and for a time added trazodone along with it. It worked so-so…. Next was paxil…did that for about 3 months. I didn’t have energy to do much of anything. The withdrawl was 2 weeks of misery. Next I went without anything for about 2 months. Signed up for a 10 week self esteem class which used a workbook on Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. I felt worse about myself at the end than I did when I started. Then I tried prozac for 4 months….helped some (any improvement was better than I was). Started having significant side effects after the dose went beyond 50mg. Started feeling more depressed as the dose increased. Started effexor…almost stopped it cuz I felt so yucky, but I think it was due to coming off the prozac. Effexor worked real well for me for about 15 months. Added wellbutrin for a time, supposedly to help the sexual dysfunction, but it didn’t help. **SOAP BOX TIME** I really don’t think that doctors who work in the field of prescribing antidepressant medications fully appreciate how powerful these drugs are, and how strongly they affect the body. My doctor, for instance, tends to believe that you can just taper a person (me) off one drug for a week or so and add a new drug at the same time or immediately thereafter, and everything will be hunky dory. WRONG!!!! As far as I am concerned, there is always some sort of withdrawl the body goes through when stopping one antidepressant, even if you start another at the same time. I have gone through this a number of times, and I hope I have been instrumental in helping my doctor learn more about this. Still, there is that transition period where my life sucks even more when I have changed meds. **END OF SOAP BOX** Anyway, coming off the prozac made it seem like the effexor was giving me a bad reaction at first, but I hung in and after about a week things were ok. After about 15 months, I was feeling sort of down, more depressed than I had been in a while. I was also feeling "chemicalized" and kind of wanted to stop. My pdoc was gonna have me start serzone, but I tapered off the effexor (again with a two week withdrawl) and stopped. So, I then went 3 months taking St. John’s Wort. It helped some, but I gradually sank down badly again, and when work took a stressful turn, I went down fast. Back to Depression City. Then I took serzone for 4 months. It is supposed to make most people a little drowsy, but it had the opposite effect on me. I felt wired. It leveled out a bit over time, but during this period I did not sleep very soundly. It was just moderately effective for the depression. At the beginning of february I started remeron. Again, in changing meds, I had the usual nausea and stuff associated with withdrawl, but man o man that remeron!! It was like Night of the Living Dead!! I slept HARD for the 3 weeks I took that stuff. Supposedly the higher the dose, the more that symptom of sleepiness goes away, but I was still a space cadet even after increasing the dose. So I practically begged my pdoc to let me go back on effexor, which I started again this week. Right now I’m going through the remeron withdrawls, nausea, diarhea and such, but I feel human again. **THEORY** I believe in my case, having taken antidepressants off and on now for over 3 years, that whatever my depression is, drugs only help it to a moderate degree. It has been my experience that continually increasing the dosage yields diminishing returns. It does appear, at least at this time in my life, that I need the help of the antidepressants to handle life. I am working in other ways on "handling life," and perhaps someday I will obtain some results that will make it unnecessary to take antidepressants. I really don’t know. But, I think I do best if I take the lowest dose that gives any decent effect. And, I am beginning to believe that my system needs a periodic chemical free period. So my plan at this point is to take the lowest dose of effexor that will stabilize my mood, which from past experience I think is either 150mg or 225mg. I think that I will also try to go about a month a year chemical free. I guess to summarize, at least maybe to summarize to myself, it takes a long period of trial and error to find out what works and what doesnt. The hard part is to somehow hang in there while going through all the ups and downs. Best wishes, Patrick *** To reply by email, remove the zzz from my email address ***