Question:

: : I just recieved a nebuliser to help me with this bronchitis I have.  This : is my third case since fall.  It is like I get over one case of it and : then walk right into another one.  This time the flu turned into : bronchitis.  Then my lungs dried out.  I was coughing up hard mucus.  This : hurt real bad. [snip] : : shown.  Also, for the thick mucous, drink plenty of water.  This is your : best friend.  The water keeps the secretions hydrated so you can bring them : up easier and decrease your chances of continuous infections.  Thick : mucous can lead to mucous plugging, leading to worse problems than : bronchitis.  Ask the doctor about an expectorant to help along with the : water.  If you are having continous bouts of infection, chances are it is : being set off from an allergic reaction to something.  Have you come : in contact with something new?  Might want to go see an allergist, or : if you have a HMO dr., insist that he refer you to one.  Find out now to : get a better handle on this. :          Good Luck,   Donna Another potential hint for the thick mucus:  use a humidifier of some sort, particularly at night – that might help keep things moist.  YMMV on this, of course – I found that humid air is harder to breathe, even when I’m sick, though for some reason a hot shower helps without bothering me. And make sure to clean/disinfect the humidifier regularly to prevent growth of mold/bacteria. …Marie and ‘Fang’ (Joey) 8/13/94… …He’s learned to climb – the end of Life As We Know It!  Aiiigggghhhhh!

Response:

I just recieved a nebuliser to help me with this bronchitis I have.  This is my third case since fall.  It is like I get over one case of it and then walk right into another one.  This time the flu turned into bronchitis.  Then my lungs dried out.  I was coughing up hard mucus.  This hurt real bad. I want to ad that I love my neb.  It is a pain in the butt to clean it, but I have been consistent.  I feel much better after using it(much better than the albuterol cannister).  I was on it every 4 hours at first.  Now I am on it just 3 times a day or as needed.  For awhile if felt like I was tied to the nebuliser!  I added up the time spent using and cleaning it (15 minutes every use).  I spent close to 1-2 hours a day getting to know that machine.

First of all.  There is no need to clean the nebulizer chamber after each treatment.  Every two days is sufficient, as studies have shown.  Also, for the thick mucous, drink plenty of water.  This is your best friend.  The water keeps the secretions hydrated so you can bring them up easier and decrease your chances of continuous infections.  Thick mucous can lead to mucous plugging, leading to worse problems than bronchitis.  Ask the doctor about an expectorant to help along with the water.  If you are having continous bouts of infection, chances are it is being set off from an allergic reaction to something.  Have you come in contact with something new?  Might want to go see an allergist, or if you have a HMO dr., insist that he refer you to one.  Find out now to get a better handle on this.          Good Luck,   Donna

Response:

I just recieved a nebuliser to help me with this bronchitis I have.  This is my third case since fall.  It is like I get over one case of it and then walk right into another one.  This time the flu turned into bronchitis.  Then my lungs dried out.  I was coughing up hard mucus.  This hurt real bad. This really stinks(except I lost a pant size on the flu diet).  I am trying to keep a good mental outlook but it is hard as I watch the dollars fly out of my pocket!  Ha. I want to ad that I love my neb.  It is a pain in the butt to clean it, but I have been consistent.  I feel much better after using it(much better than the albuterol cannister).  I was on it every 4 hours at first.  Now I am on it just 3 times a day or as needed.  For awhile if felt like I was tied to the nebuliser!  I added up the time spent using and cleaning it (15 minutes every use).  I spent close to 1-2 hours a day getting to know that machine.   I have been on Biaxin for almost 7 days now and I am still coughing up GAK.  Anyone have any suggestions for me?  Have any of you had bronchitis this bad?  I am just so thankful it wasn’t a Pneumonia diagnosis.  I have heard about that hell. Thanks in advance for any support or input!   Suz in Arizona(gagging and huffing, oh well people leave me alone when I shop at least! Ha.)

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After a bad cold I think I might have bronchitis, which feels different than my usual asthma.  Can anyone tell me what bronchitis feels like? Do you have to have a fever?  Do antibiotics help?  Is there a test or something?  There is this "spot" I feel where I wheeze.  Cough is no longer productive. Any experience out there?  It’s still here 3 wks leter…

Antibiotics help if the bronchitis is caused by bacteria but not for virus. If you are still wheezing or your Peak Flow is below 80% of Personal Best, you may not be taking enough long-acting preventor meds like inhaled steroids. Here’s my links on bronchitis to research: http://www.vh.org/Beyond/PeerReviews/31Bronchitis.html Virtual Hospital,    Bronchitis http://www.familyinternet.com/peds/top/000124.htm  Acute Bronchitis http://www.njc.org/MFhtml/URI_MF.html  URI (Colds) &  Acute Bronchitis http://www.njc.org/PRhtml/!k_bronc.htm  Chronic Bronchitis http://www.charm.net/~epi1/mycoplas.htm  Mycoplasma http://www.sk.sympatico.ca/Contents/Health/REV_HTML/R7738.html Bronchitis    Resources http://www.springnet.com/ce/j701as1.htm Table. Causative Organisms     of Acute Bronchitis http://www.njc.org/MFhtml/RDE_MF.html Resources for COPD  (Chronic Bronchitis, Emphysema)

Question:

Ted said in this very newsgroup… it is the SAME stuff you have been taking, and the price is now only TEN times the price people outside the US pay.

We can only hope that competition will bring the benefits to our US cousins that we Europeans have. Generic Metformin, on a three doses a day basis (1500mg total dose) is sold to the British NHS at a basic price of $4 a week or thereabouts. That is the price the NHS pays; anyone not able to supply at that price does not get used. So therefore as many manufacturers are supplying at that price there is no reason why it should not be available at around those prices in the US. I have had Israeli manufactured Metformin in the past; supplied at that price. Absolutely perfect generic Metformin. The manufacturers would not be selling at the UK price if it was unprofitable. This is not gloating BTW. It really sickens me that our good US friends are being taken for a ride. Ratty — Type 2 since 93 Can I get a new pancreas under the warranty? This one’s burnt out…. http://www.asduk.org.uk our shiny new website!

Response:

it is the SAME stuff you have been taking, and the price is now only TEN times the price people outside the US pay. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just got back from the pharmacy where I discovered that my insurance company forced a switch to the new generic metformin. Anyone have any experience with it yet? Any different (or new) side effects that I should be aware of? I still have about 20 days of the old stuff available, so I’d like to be forewarned if possible. Thanks in advance.

Response:

Bill Josephs said in this very newsgroup… I just got back from the pharmacy where I discovered that my insurance company forced a switch to the new generic metformin. Anyone have any experience with it yet? Any different (or new) side effects that I should be aware of? I still have about 20 days of the old stuff available, so I’d like to be forewarned if possible. Thanks in advance.

The only real meaningful difference is the name. Metformin is the lab name of the compound that Glucophage contains. The active ingredients are identical. Ratty — email: flyingrat at totalise.co.uk giggle: http://www.users.totalise.co.uk/~royellor/ spam: kiss my ar*e

Response:

I just got back from the pharmacy where I discovered that my insurance company forced a switch to the new generic metformin. Anyone have any experience with it yet? Any different (or new) side effects that I should be aware of? I still have about 20 days of the old stuff available, so I’d like to be forewarned if possible. Thanks in advance.

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Question:

My 2 yr old has developed a rash on his face and eye lids. HAs anyone heard of Pulmicort doing that. Ron

Response:

My 2 yr old has developed a rash on his face and eye lids. HAs anyone heard of Pulmicort doing that. Ron

Its possible. Be sure to wash his face after face mask is removed. (I assume you use a face mask, whether using the Turbuhaler with AeroChamber & facemask, or the nebulizer with face mask). Here’s a link on the Pulmicort Turbuhaler: http://www.rxmed.com/monographs/pulmico2.html Excerpt Adverse Effects: No major side effects attributable to the use of budesonide, in all dosage forms, have been reported. During clinical trials, the frequency of subjectively reported side effects was low. The most common side effects were cough, throat irritation, and  hoarseness (2 to 4%). Bad taste, headache, nausea and dryness of the  throat were reported less frequently. Other side effects reported on  occasion during budesonide treatment were tiredness, thirst and  diarrhea. Skin reactions (urticaria, rash, dermatitis,  etc.) may, in rare cases, occur in association with local  corticosteroid therapy." Here is a link for the nebulized version (not available in US): http://www.rxmed.com/monographs/pulmico.html Excerpt: "Adverse Effects: During clinical trials, the most common side effects were  cough, throat irritation and hoarseness (2 to 4%). Bad taste, headache,  nausea and dryness of the throat were reported less frequently. Other side  effects reported on occasion during budesonide treatment were tiredness, thirst and diarrhea.  Facial skin irritation has occurred in a few cases when a nebulizer with a  face mask has been used. To prevent irritation, the facial skin should be  washed after use of the face mask. Skin reactions (urticaria, rash,  dermatitis, etc.) may, in rare cases, occur in association with local  corticosteroid therapy." Ellis

Response:

My 2 yr old has developed a rash on his face and eye lids. HAs anyone heard of Pulmicort doing that. Its possible. Be sure to wash his face after face mask is removed. (I assume you use a face mask, whether using the Turbuhaler with AeroChamber & facemask, or the nebulizer with face mask).

It is not possible to use a Turbuhaler with an Aerochamber/mask. However, there is an MDI version of Pulmicort, which can be used with an aerochamber.  There is also, as you say, the nebulizer version. The original poster may also want to investigate to see if something has changed in their child’s environment [e.g. new foods] to see if perhaps that is the cause of the rash. SW. THIS IS IN NO WAY PROFESSIONAL ADVICE.   Starwind UNSOLICITED COMMERCIAL EMAIL IS NOT WELCOME AT THIS ADDRESS OR VARIATIONS OF IT.

Response:

My 2 yr old has developed a rash on his face and eye lids. HAs anyone heard of Pulmicort doing that. Its possible. Be sure to wash his face after face mask is removed. (I assume you use a face mask, whether using the Turbuhaler with AeroChamber & facemask, or the nebulizer with face mask). It is not possible to use a Turbuhaler with an Aerochamber/mask. However, there is an MDI version of Pulmicort, which can be used with an aerochamber.  There is also, as you say, the nebulizer version.

Whoops, I forgot you can’t use an AeroChamber with a DPI. The original poster did email me; said his son doesn’t use a mask, just breathes thru the tube; so I don’t know if he was using the Turbuhaler version, the MDI version, or the nebulizer version. I told him any such effects would be dose-dependent; perhaps he could reduce the Pulmicort dose and use some steroid-sparing meds, like Intal, Tilade, TheoDur, Proventil tabs. Food allergies (eczema) are certainly a possibility. Ellis – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The original poster may also want to investigate to see if something has changed in their child’s environment [e.g. new foods] to see if perhaps that is the cause of the rash. SW.

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Question:

 This is a re-post from a while ago. I think it answers your question. PEF = Peak expiratory flow; this is the fastest speed you can get air moving out of your lungs if you blow real hard. Back in the old days they used to have "the match test." The doctor would hold a lit match several inches in front of your face (I forget how many – we have PF’s now) and ask you to blow with your mouth open. If you couldn’t blow it out they knew you were in trouble. They could also quantitate things somewhat by describing how close they had to hold the match before you could blow it out. This test was more convenient back when everyone smoked. Somewhere along the line, someone decided to make a device that gave a number. There are several different brands out there. The numbers don’t compare exactly between different models and even between the same model in different conditions. It is the trend, and your own history that counts, so the differences don’t mean all that much. Basically, it is cheap and easy to use. It can give the doctor a number to follow, which is always helpful. You can say "250" rather than "pretty bad." It does have several limitations. The first is that everyone should establish their own "normal." In most ER’s they will have tables that tell them what "normal" for you should be. Trouble is that it varies greatly and these charts are worthless (IMO). Most of the people here probably never get anywhere near "normal." On a good day the chart would have you near death. Some, like myself, can do much more than "normal" and so if they believe the chart, and not me, they will miss a serious decrease in function. The second limitation is that it does not measure precisely the right thing. The PEF generally measures the airflow coming out of the large airways, such as the trachea and first few branches of the Bronchi. Asthma usually is more of a disease of small airways. That is why they make you blow into the PFT machine until you want to pass out. That last little bit of air is coming from the small airways. Usually the PEF correlates with disease severity in asthma, but you have to keep in mind that the PFM (Peak flow meter) is not measuring exactly the right thing and may read normal during a severe attack. The information it gives can be misleading. If you have one at home and use it regularly you will get to know what your best is, and at what levels you tend to get into trouble. This information, derived from your experience, and not a chart can be helpful. It allows you to have a precise way of communicating to your doctor how severe your attack is. The trend now is to develop an "action plan." The PF readings are usually divided up into three zones; green, yellow, and red. The green zone means continue as usual, or possibly taper meds down, depending on what you are doing. Yellow usually calls for some increase in therapy and possibly a call to the doctor. Red usually means call the doctor or 911. — Good Luck, CBI, M.D. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can someone explain to me how one can have normal peak flow readings (over 100%) and still be short of breath.  Could there be a respiratory infection? Niasha

Response:

Hello! I really understand how frustrated you must be!  My peak flow is generally fairly constant, even if I feel tight in my chest.  My doc said he has some patients showing a high peak flow reading yet are sick enough to go to the ER!!  The only time my peak flow dips is when I am really, really sick. I’ve just had to learn through experience and calls to my doctor how to gauge my symptoms and the need for any additional meds.  I was relying heavily on my Pf readings but learned to listen to my body, also. Best of luck, Patrice – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – _That_ explains a few things!  I’d been wondering myself how I could still be having symptoms when my peak flow readings were so high… hmmmm some of this is beginning to make sense to me……Every summer I have the same problems, chest tightness, shortness of breath, panic and chest pain…and every summer i start on the same regime of drugs….ventolin and pulmicort and every summer I never feel any better than the last.  I am beginning to get very frustrated and I am beginning to doubt myself and wonder if it is all in my head. This summer my doctor asked me to start recording peak flow information.  I have been doing it for just over two weeks now (which I hear is a good preliminary period) but i feel just as confused as every.  My symptoms seem consistent with asthma, but not the peak flows.  My levels are high in the morning, dip in the afternoon and evening.  After taking ventolin my personal best is 525.  most days i come in around 425.  but some days at 425 i feel ok and other days i feel like I am suffocating.  and the difference between 450 and 425 feels like the difference between 450 and 200. i thought that this was supposed to take the guess work out of this whole mess and give me some "ammunition" when I go to my doctor? but i am still confused, frustrated and on the verge of a nervous breakdown and I fear that my doctor thinks I am nuts. ter Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

A peak flow meter only measures the condition of the large airways. You could be having problems with the small airways causing such symptoms.

_That_ explains a few things!  I’d been wondering myself how I could still be having symptoms when my peak flow readings were so high…

Response:

_That_ explains a few things!  I’d been wondering myself how I could still be having symptoms when my peak flow readings were so high…

hmmmm some of this is beginning to make sense to me……Every summer I have the same problems, chest tightness, shortness of breath, panic and chest pain…and every summer i start on the same regime of drugs….ventolin and pulmicort and every summer I never feel any better than the last.  I am beginning to get very frustrated and I am beginning to doubt myself and wonder if it is all in my head. This summer my doctor asked me to start recording peak flow information.  I have been doing it for just over two weeks now (which I hear is a good preliminary period) but i feel just as confused as every.  My symptoms seem consistent with asthma, but not the peak flows.  My levels are high in the morning, dip in the afternoon and evening.  After taking ventolin my personal best is 525.  most days i come in around 425.  but some days at 425 i feel ok and other days i feel like I am suffocating.  and the difference between 450 and 425 feels like the difference between 450 and 200. i thought that this was supposed to take the guess work out of this whole mess and give me some "ammunition" when I go to my doctor? but i am still confused, frustrated and on the verge of a nervous breakdown and I fear that my doctor thinks I am nuts. ter Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

Oh, oh!  Thanks.  Niasha – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you are having trouble breathing, but your PFs are stable, then it is probably an infection.  If the PFs are dropping, but improve with albuterol, that is asthma. Chris Owens Earlier this month I was hospitalized for a week with pneumonia. During all that time, my peak flows were at 100%. Emily M.

Response:

Can someone explain to me how one can have normal peak flow readings (over 100%) and still be short of breath.  Could there be a respiratory infection? Niasha

A peak flow meter only measures the condition of the large airways. You could be having problems with the small airways causing such symptoms. It could be a respiratory infection; often a virus where antibiotics would probably not be prescribed. Usually an Action Plan calls for increasing meds when either Peak Flow drops into Yellow zone, OR symptoms increase. [eg double inhaled steroid, use Ventolin as needed] Ellis

Response:

Ellis you are tooo clever.  That’s what my doctor said on Friday.  She explained the difference and procedures for a viral vs a bacterial infection (which requires an anitbiotic).   I am on nebulizer treatments and increase steriods.  This is Sunday morning and I feel better already.  Thanks, Niasha Ellis  wrote…A peak flow meter only measures the condition of the large

airways. You could be having problems with the small airways causing such symptoms.  It could be a respiratory infection; often

a virus where  antibiotics would probably not be prescribed.  Usually an Action Plan calls for increasing meds when either Peak Flow drops into Yellow zone, OR symptoms increase.  [eg double inhaled steroid, use Ventolin as needed]

Response:

If you are having trouble breathing, but your PFs are stable, then it is probably an infection.  If the PFs are dropping, but improve with albuterol, that is asthma. Chris Owens

Earlier this month I was hospitalized for a week with pneumonia. During all that time, my peak flows were at 100%. Emily M.

Response:

Fooey, hooey!  Txs Niasha Can someone explain to me how one can have normal peak flow readings (over 100%) and still be short of breath.  Could there be a respiratory

infection? chris responded…Not only could there be, it’s very likely.  Doctor time.

Response:

PFR are accurate.  I put my average high (700) to be on the safe side.   I can usually go up to 850 at least once and an average bet.  650 and 750 2 out of 3 times.  I guess my question is more about when do you know it’s an asthma attack Vs a respiratory infection.  For asthma I go to the specialist and for infections to my GP (who, by the way, is extremely knowledgeable).

If you are having trouble breathing, but your PFs are stable, then it is probably an infection.  If the PFs are dropping, but improve with albuterol, that is asthma. Chris Owens

Response:

PFR are accurate.  I put my average high (700) to be on the safe side.   I can usually go up to 850 at least once and an average bet.  650 and 750 2 out of 3 times.  I guess my question is more about when do you know it’s an asthma attack Vs a respiratory infection.  For asthma I go to the specialist and for infections to my GP (who, by the way, is extremely knowledgeable). – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -nancy wrote… I would suggest going to your pulmonologist and making sure that your numbers are correct.  Are you sure that your "normal" zone isnt too high?  We had a bit of trouble pinpointing my correct range, but once we did, my numbers/breathing were right on the money.

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Can someone explain to me how one can have normal peak flow readings (over 100%) and still be short of breath.  Could there be a respiratory infection? Niasha

Response:

Can someone explain to me how one can have normal peak flow readings (over 100%) and still be short of breath.  Could there be a respiratory infection?

Not only could there be, it’s very likely.  Doctor time. Chris Owens

Response:

Can someone explain to me how one can have normal peak flow readings (over 100%) and still be short of breath.  Could there be a respiratory infection? Niasha

I would suggest going to your pulmonologist and making sure that your numbers are correct.  Are you sure that your "normal" zone isnt too high?  We had a bit of trouble pinpointing my correct range, but once we did, my numbers/breathing were right on the money. Life is uncertain – eat dessert first. Nancy 8=: )

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My anxiety/panic attacks are actually a lot better than they use to be.  My depression isn’t as intense as it was say a couple of months ago either.  Right now, my biggest problem seems to be obsessive thoughts that I cannot get out of my mind.  For example, I called a lady friend of mine night before last and she still hasn’t called me back.  She normally calls be back shortly after I call her.  This evening I have gotten myself all worked up about her not calling, thinking that she doesn’t like me anymore or is mad at me about something.  Does anyone else experience this obsessive type of thinking?  Is it part of anxiety or is it possibly a deeper problem?  Take care and happy Easter. Yes. A thought goes through my mind and it circulates and intensifies and it becomes very hard to get rid of. At times the thoughts are very positive obsessions (now that the Zoloft is lifting the depression); other times they are negative obsessions. It could be part of anxiety or depression IMO. The Zoloft has merely transferred them more often to the "positive zone." Of course, you constantly have to work to break those negative cycles. Don’t simmer on anything but positive obsessions.

Hello Marie, Thanks for your reply.  Obsessing about things is a big problem with me.  It seems everyday I am obsessing about some new thought or worry. I have been really bad for this for about six years now.  Sometimes I’ll get so worked up I’ll be just beside myself and don’t know what to do.  When I get like this Seroquel PRN seems to be really helpful. Anyways, thanks again for your reply.  Take care. Chris Hecker

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Hello group, I have been struggling with anxiety pretty much my entire adult life. In addition to anxiety I also suffer from depression, possibly bi-polar.  The meds that I am curently on are Effexor XR- 150 mg Seroquel – 50 mg HS Inderal (to counteract shaking caused by my meds) 40 mg Lithium carbonate – 600 mg HS My anxiety/panic attacks are actually a lot better than they use to be.  My depression isn’t as intense as it was say a couple of months ago either.  Right now, my biggest problem seems to be obsessive thoughts that I cannot get out of my mind.  For example, I called a lady friend of mine night before last and she still hasn’t called me back.  She normally calls be back shortly after I call her.  This evening I have gotten myself all worked up about her not calling, thinking that she doesn’t like me anymore or is mad at me about something.  Does anyone else experience this obsessive type of thinking?  Is it part of anxiety or is it possibly a deeper problem?  Take care and happy Easter. Chris H. Internet Security 101 – http://www.internetsecurity101.net

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My anxiety/panic attacks are actually a lot better than they use to be.  My depression isn’t as intense as it was say a couple of months ago either.  Right now, my biggest problem seems to be obsessive thoughts that I cannot get out of my mind.  For example, I called a lady friend of mine night before last and she still hasn’t called me back.  She normally calls be back shortly after I call her.  This evening I have gotten myself all worked up about her not calling, thinking that she doesn’t like me anymore or is mad at me about something.  Does anyone else experience this obsessive type of thinking?  Is it part of anxiety or is it possibly a deeper problem?  Take care and happy Easter.

Yes. A thought goes through my mind and it circulates and intensifies and it becomes very hard to get rid of. At times the thoughts are very positive obsessions (now that the Zoloft is lifting the depression); other times they are negative obsessions. It could be part of anxiety or depression IMO. The Zoloft has merely transferred them more often to the "positive zone." Of course, you constantly have to work to break those negative cycles. Don’t simmer on anything but positive obsessions.

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Question:

On Mon, 28 Jul 2003 15:51:24 GMT, "Dee" <particl…@earthlink.net

wrote:

Norma, I am SO bad about thinking about ME ….

there’s a silly line from Ally McBeal where one character says "Why is everything always about you?"  Her answer, I believe, is "because it’s my life."  something to that effect.  of course you’re thinking about you. You are in pain and scared and that is how humans look at the world – through their eyes.

I have to say this: I have been told by a therapist at one time … that I have a small amount of borderline personality disorder.  I know I do .. cause I’ve read about it … and I fit it perfectly!  All except the wanting to commit suicide and cutting myself .. ick .. would never do that!

I would like to clarify – cutting (self-injury in general) is not a property of borderline personality disorder.  I’m sure "borderlines" do sometimes have this problem but it is not part and parcel of the disorder but a seperate issue that can be seen in the most otherwise mentally healthy individual.  Suicidal ideation is also not solely attributable to BPD and in fact the BPD people I know well do not have any desire to commit suicide.  I see more of each of these problems in bipolar disorder as well as in unipolar depression.  Are you getting treatment other than a therp saying you have BPD tendencies?  

BUT … part of the condition is being completely absorbed into the man in your life … and not being able to let go of what ‘he’s’ thinking ..

I think that is part of you.  The BPD individual I am closest to, really could care less about what her family, friends or significant other thinks or feels.

feeling .. doing.  And jealousy and trust is a HUGE thing for me!  

trust should be a huge thing.  Jealousy is something we can learn to deal with but trust is critical to any relationship.  You can not trust him, he’s shown you that.  

I’m seriously thinking of asking my doctor for an antidepressant during this time.. cause I KNOW if left on my own …. I’ll go crazy and do some damage to my system by the worrying and obsessions.

please do check into it.  But also make sure that this doc knows as much about meds and BPD as possible.  Some of the antidepressants can aggravate the anxiety levels of a situation and make it tougher for you to cope rather than easier.  I am not well-versed in treating BPD but fairly familiar with treating depression (bipolar or unipolar) and would recommend you talk to a good therp as well as a good psychiatrist (prescribing doc.)  

He did prescribe Zoloft for me once .. but I never took them .. threw them away … maybe he’ll just call them in for me.  I’m very scared to take them … cause I’m on meds for hypertension and rapid heartbeat, and I think they raise the blood pressure … will have to talk to him about it.  But I do know I may need something … for the obsessivness .. or I’ll just lose it!

some of the SRIs and SSRIs like zoloft, effexor and so on can increase BP.  I didn’t have this problem when I was on effexor but it sure had other side effects.  I don’t know if a tricyclic is the right treatment for you but I do know that this type of AD tends to lower b.p.  It can also increase your appetite tremendously.  I take Remeron now and then for that purpose only – one dose gives me 2-3 days of appetite and keeps me at a safe weight (I’m too thin – the disease prevents me from properly absorbing nutrients.)  The best known tricyclic is Elavil (Amitryptiline.)  I took Trazadone for sleep – a tricyclic not really that effective for depression – and it lowered my b.p. too much.  I had "brown outs" several times a day and had to stop the drug.

PS… if I sound ungrateful or bitchy .. I truly don’t mean to come across that way … I’m just really hurting today!

likewise -if we sound preachy and know-it-all it’s ’cause we want to help. kcat

Response:

What she said!! I’ve been there too- and while it is hard, it’s so freeing to be away from abuse.  I think you might find that you will feel better physically too… the stress of this whole things being behind you. My marriage to an abusive man broke up 6 years ago and I look back now, see how God carried me through it, and see where I am now–  and would do it over in a heartbeat. Hang in there! -Kristin "Opinion8d" <mm…@cox.net

wrote in message

news:ceoVa.151933$o86.40550@news1.central.cox.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Dee" <particl…@earthlink.net

wrote in message

> news:7F9Va.122682$Io.10500495@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net… > > I’m just gonna vent and spill out my feelings for a bit .. hope you don’t

mind … I sit here feeling terrible … as expected I’m sure.  I know it seems that when a bad thing stops, it’s suppose to be good … but not so … at least not right away.  How could I make him leave his home?  The only place he knew?  His office sits there with his computer, his papers … books .. software .. he SO wanted to learn Dreamweaver … I sit here crying as I type … cause I’m not so sure I wasn’t the one who made this go bad. [snip]    I hate this!!  I know .. time .. time .. time .. but what if I made a mistake? ?????? I’m done now …. anybody? Dee Hi Dee. Can you feel the virtual arms of your pals here around you?? The first year is the worst……and yes, we tend to put ourselves on more severe guilt trips than the former "other" could ever dream up on their

own.

Your reactions to the emotions surging through your life are normal and natural. Acknowledge the anger, the frustration, guilt, and jealousy (the fear of

him

rebounding directly into another woman’s arms)……cry about it, scream about it, rag on and on to all your friends about it…………and

everyday

remind yourself that you MUST look after your own interests. Ahw hell……just read your post "Trying to Understand My Husband" over your morning coffee………that should help reinforce all the reasons

that

you have made your decision to remove the source of negativity that can

only

be described as destructive.    I know it would for me!! Yeah, I said and did all those things you mentioned when my first husband and I split……if only I had………if only things could have been different…….if only I was a better {insert your choice here}……..on and on and on………….. I entertained all sorts of crazy fantasies………ones that always ended with my daughter and I starting over in a new place with new names, and never worrying about the presence of the beast again………eventually I quit running from my emotions. I sat down and had the biggest cry of my life!!  A couple of hours later I felt calm and had an amazingly clear headed……..in that moment, I determined that I would not let the beast haunt me……..this is my life and I a responsible for my own destiny………God gave me all the tools

and

knowledge to survive and take care of myself — it was up to me to utilize them. The hardest thing for anyone to do is leave an abusive relationship…….and abuse comes in many more forms that the traditional smack in the choppers……you are the victim here.  From this day forward it is up to you………live your life as a victim, or face your future

with

hope and expectations of success. The road you are on now is rough and full of boulders………this too

shall

pass……..stick to your resolve, and make YOUR life happen.  In time,

the

pain begins to ease, and you can reflect on that relationship with a new perspective that allows you to move forward without any guilt or shame. Get a copy of "Women Who Love Too Much"  from your library…….block off an entire day, and read it cover to cover.  I cried most of the way

through

it…..tears of recognition……..tears of resolve…….tears of guilt

and

frustration……..and later, tears of relief.  I had recognized that I

was

in an unhealthy relationship and had the wisdom and courage to get out of it…….through the tears I learned what events in my life had influenced the decisions I had made, and how to recognize and avoid stimuli that triggered poor relationship choices. Marie

Response:

"Dee" <particl…@earthlink.net

wrote in message

news:7F9Va.122682$Io.10500495@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net…

I’m just gonna vent and spill out my feelings for a bit .. hope you don’t mind … I sit here feeling terrible … as expected I’m sure.  I know it seems

that

when a bad thing stops, it’s suppose to be good … but not so … at

least

not right away.  How could I make him leave his home?  The only place he knew?  His office sits there with his computer, his papers … books .. software .. he SO wanted to learn Dreamweaver … I sit here crying as I type … cause I’m not so sure I wasn’t the one who made this go bad.

[snip]

   I hate this!!  I know .. time .. time .. time .. but what if I made a mistake? ?????? I’m done now …. anybody? Dee

Hi Dee. Can you feel the virtual arms of your pals here around you?? The first year is the worst……and yes, we tend to put ourselves on more severe guilt trips than the former "other" could ever dream up on their own. Your reactions to the emotions surging through your life are normal and natural. Acknowledge the anger, the frustration, guilt, and jealousy (the fear of him rebounding directly into another woman’s arms)……cry about it, scream about it, rag on and on to all your friends about it…………and everyday remind yourself that you MUST look after your own interests. Ahw hell……just read your post "Trying to Understand My Husband" over your morning coffee………that should help reinforce all the reasons that you have made your decision to remove the source of negativity that can only be described as destructive.    I know it would for me!! Yeah, I said and did all those things you mentioned when my first husband and I split……if only I had………if only things could have been different…….if only I was a better {insert your choice here}……..on and on and on………….. I entertained all sorts of crazy fantasies………ones that always ended with my daughter and I starting over in a new place with new names, and never worrying about the presence of the beast again………eventually I quit running from my emotions. I sat down and had the biggest cry of my life!!  A couple of hours later I felt calm and had an amazingly clear headed……..in that moment, I determined that I would not let the beast haunt me……..this is my life and I a responsible for my own destiny………God gave me all the tools and knowledge to survive and take care of myself — it was up to me to utilize them. The hardest thing for anyone to do is leave an abusive relationship…….and abuse comes in many more forms that the traditional smack in the choppers……you are the victim here.  From this day forward it is up to you………live your life as a victim, or face your future with hope and expectations of success. The road you are on now is rough and full of boulders………this too shall pass……..stick to your resolve, and make YOUR life happen.  In time, the pain begins to ease, and you can reflect on that relationship with a new perspective that allows you to move forward without any guilt or shame. Get a copy of "Women Who Love Too Much"  from your library…….block off an entire day, and read it cover to cover.  I cried most of the way through it…..tears of recognition……..tears of resolve…….tears of guilt and frustration……..and later, tears of relief.  I had recognized that I was in an unhealthy relationship and had the wisdom and courage to get out of it…….through the tears I learned what events in my life had influenced the decisions I had made, and how to recognize and avoid stimuli that triggered poor relationship choices. Marie

Response:

Dee, I have been sitting in your position in the past.  Please trust us on the NG here, that you made the right decision…it is hard because you are afraid. I have at least 5 major health disorders and I have emotional disorders as well.  In the past the completely bizarre feeling that if my husband leaves I will literally *disappear*–some strange feeling of getting "lost" and never getting found again.  These feeling have a completely logical basis for little children, but sometimes as adults we don’t realize that we have not outgrown all of them. You do need to think about supporting yourself, and not overdoing yourself. the best thing he can give you, rather than "the large monitor and the mouse" is temporary support.  Depending on the state you live in the court can order it.  Get as much as you can for as long as you can, and you should know that amount right up front.  that will bring your anxiety level down several notches. Take things in little steps.  I have so much more I could tell you, but this is so much right here.  I didn’t have time to read all of your posts… but I will go back. When the feelings get really bad, just find something to do.  And we are here for you. It’s gonna be okay. But more imortantly, it *is* okay, right now. I’ts okay.  It IS okay. You’re not bleeding. Take a deep breath. the house is not on fire. Take a deep breath. Your heart hurts badly Cry and feel the hurt Its okay to be hurting Its not fun, but its okay Take a deep breath. Mair "Dee" <particl…@earthlink.net

wrote in message

news:7F9Va.122682$Io.10500495@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

I’m just gonna vent and spill out my feelings for a bit .. hope you don’t mind … I sit here feeling terrible … as expected I’m sure.  I know it seems

that

when a bad thing stops, it’s suppose to be good … but not so … at

least

not right away.  How could I make him leave his home?  The only place he knew?  His office sits there with his computer, his papers … books .. software .. he SO wanted to learn Dreamweaver … I sit here crying as I type … cause I’m not so sure I wasn’t the one who made this go bad. I know .. you will say I’m blaming myself … and letting him get to me

…

but no .. not really .. I guess I’m really trying to be  honest with

myself.

I wasn’t the perfect wife by no means … I mean… I know the REASON I yelled at him … and bitched … was because he hurt me .. and wasn’t

there

for me.. but he wasn’t there for me the way "I" wanted him to be … the

way

I needed.   Was that HIS fault?  Or was it just that he wasn’t the man I needed .. and never could be … and all my yellling and bitching … and calling him names .. and yes I admit .. I did call him so pretty bad things… did any of that help?  No!  All it did was push him further from me … and hurt him inside.  I guess I wish he were feeling these things

too

… it would make it easier on me .. that he’s hurting too .. that he’s sorry HE hurt ME too … He did so many things for me … while married … and before he left ..

he

set me up with my own business in the beginning .. not pushing me to work … and just work on my business … I did that for many years .. and did bring in some income .. but I would quit one idea and go to the next .. so my business never really took off good … nor did I ever make allot of money from it.  He worked hard .. all the time … and he never gave me a problem about working.  ok .. a few times he would say maybe I should go

to

work … and to tell the truth, back before I got sick … I just hated working!  I would find excuses … and he would accept them. Now .. I truly am sick … and it’s hard to imagine myself working full

time

… I’m almost positive I can’t.  I’m not sure about part time … I do

know

that I’m painting … and selling the paintings a little on ebay.  I just made a few cloth dolls and sold a them on ebay also.  I have an idea I’m working on with a few other women … with dolls .. and it might go over well and bring in some income … and I’ve thought of having home shows

with

dolls that other folks make … and I resell .. but I’m not sure I have

the

energy for that either.  I’d really love to work on my paintings … and sell them more often. I may HAVE to go to work part time…. but it scares me so! He did so many things he didn’t have to do .. before he left …. he gave

me

his BIG monitor .. his new mouse, and ALL his memory … so I could have a nice computer system to work with.  He also gave me the printer.  He took out the mattress he had been sleeping on this morning before going to work … and he put his clothes in a plastic garbage bag.    :-( It hurt me so much to see him have to give up everything!  I had a short talk with him before he left … and told him that I’ve tried to do this

as

nice as I can … and that he knew we had to separate, that he wanted it

too

… and there was no easy way of doing it.  I told him I was so sorry that he had no money or place to stay … but I was scared for myself too … what I’m going to do … where I’m getting the money to live. He acted

upset

.. and hurt … more upset .. annoyed .. angry .. and that made me feel worse. I just don’t know … I’m so confused!  I’m SO scared that he’ll be in another woman’s arms soon … he’s in the pitcrew for his newphews racing team … and at the track there are so many opportunities.  I still do

love

him .. and yet I know he hurt me … and I know he wasn’t good for me in many ways … yet I hurt him too, and I wasn’t good for him.    I hate this!!  I know .. time .. time .. time .. but what if I made a mistake? ?????? I’m done now …. anybody? Dee

Response:

Honey, I know you are hurting. It is the biggest hurt in the world.  Like my mom has told me "once you get over this hurt, a man will never be able to hurt you like that again"  That has been true for me. There are a lot of things you can’t see right now. Believe me, his guilt is not your guilt. We all have been jealousy at one time or another and that is a nasty emotion, but you can overcome this day. Whenever you are ready I am here.  Cry it out. Then one day you will wonder why you shed those tears over a damn man.  Honey, he or no other man is worth it. I’m just trying to be as honest with you as I can. Don’t get mad at any of us for trying to help, please. It can piss you off, but we are thinking about you not him. Norma "Dee" <particl…@earthlink.net

wrote in message

news:0EbVa.25257$Mc.1957704@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Norma, I am SO bad about thinking about ME …. I have to say this: I have been told by a therapist at one time … that I have a small amount of borderline personality disorder.  I know I do .. cause I’ve read about it … and I fit it perfectly!  All except the

wanting

to commit suicide and cutting myself .. ick .. would never do that! BUT … part of the condition is being completely absorbed into the man in your life … and not being able to let go of what ‘he’s’ thinking .. feeling .. doing.  And jealousy and trust is a HUGE thing for me!  I mean

I

get SO hysterical .. that I’ll do some pretty stupid things out of jealousy!!  I dwell and dwell on what he’s doing when I’m not there …

how

he’ll be with women .. what they’ll do .. say … where they’ll go… how much happier he’ll be without me .. how much nicer they’ll treat him .. that somebody else .. younger, and healthier will treat him better .. and make him happy … and that will just KILL me … it will do me in, I

swear!

That’s how I am!!  I hate it … but it’s a reality! I’m seriously thinking of asking my doctor for an antidepressant during

this

time.. cause I KNOW if left on my own …. I’ll go crazy and do some

damage

to my system by the worrying and obsessions. He did prescribe Zoloft for me once .. but I never took them .. threw them away … maybe he’ll just call them in for me.  I’m very scared to take

them

… cause I’m on meds for hypertension and rapid heartbeat, and I think

they

raise the blood pressure … will have to talk to him about it.  But I do know I may need something … for the obsessivness .. or I’ll just lose

it!

Thanks so much for being here … As for ‘guilt’ .. as soon as I read what you said … and J too … I got defensive .. I mean .. inside my head and heart .. I said … NO .. he wasn’t making me feel guilty .. he  did it to be nice … he wanted me to have a nice computer when he was gone … and I still think that. Yes, I might consider talking on the phone .. maybe not just yet …

today’s > a hard day … crying lots and bleeding hard… some combination .. huh? > Thanks so much … truly I mean that! > Hugs, > Dee > PS… if I sound ungrateful or bitchy .. I truly don’t mean to come across > that way … I’m just really hurting today! > Norma <lup…@hotmail.com

wrote in message

> news:viag6pkd7vrc76@corp.supernews.com… > > Dee Dee Dee: > > Bless your heart. I know the pain seems impossible now, but you will be > > okay. Yes, time is the answer. It will get better day to day, week to > week. > > Honey, it takes two to make a marriage and it takes two to break a > marriage. > > Stop placing the all blame on yourself. > > According to his background you should be appalled. The only reason he > > "left" you the computer, etc. is called "GUILT".  He knows he’s done > wrong, > > but won’t admit it.  However, that is no reason, just an excuse. > > Get your feelings straightened out and get on with it.  Yes, dear it does > > take time and we’ve all been there, so know, that it will get better. > > If you want to send me a private email with your phone number, I will be > > glad to call you and talk. > > You have to concentrate on feeling better. That is the #1 priority. > > Thinking of you, > > Norma > > "Dee" <particl…@earthlink.net

wrote in message

> > news:7F9Va.122682$Io.10500495@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net… > > > I’m just gonna vent and spill out my feelings for a bit .. hope you > don’t > > > mind … > > > I sit here feeling terrible … as expected I’m sure.  I know it seems > > that > > > when a bad thing stops, it’s suppose to be good … but not so … at > > least > > > not right away.  How could I make him leave his home?  The only place he

knew?  His office sits there with his computer, his papers … books

..

software .. he SO wanted to learn Dreamweaver … I sit here crying as

I

type … cause I’m not so sure I wasn’t the one who made this go bad. I know .. you will say I’m blaming myself … and letting him get to

me

… but no .. not really .. I guess I’m really trying to be  honest with myself. I wasn’t the perfect wife by no means … I mean… I know the REASON

I

yelled at him … and bitched … was because he hurt me .. and wasn’t there for me.. but he wasn’t there for me the way "I" wanted him to be …

the

way I needed.   Was that HIS fault?  Or was it just that he wasn’t the man

I

needed .. and never could be … and all my yellling and bitching … and calling him names .. and yes I admit .. I did call him so pretty bad things… did any of that help?  No!  All it did was push him further from me … and hurt him inside.  I guess I wish he were feeling these

things

too … it would make it easier on me .. that he’s hurting too .. that

he’s

sorry HE hurt ME too … He did so many things for me … while married … and before he left

..

he set me up with my own business in the beginning .. not pushing me to work … and just work on my business … I did that for many years .. and did bring in some income .. but I would quit one idea and go to the next

..

so my business never really took off good … nor did I ever make allot

of

money from it.  He worked hard .. all the time … and he never gave

me

a problem about working.  ok .. a few times he would say maybe I should

go

to work … and to tell the truth, back before I got sick … I just

hated

working!  I would find excuses … and he would accept them. Now .. I truly am sick … and it’s hard to imagine myself working

full

time … I’m almost positive I can’t.  I’m not sure about part time … I

do

know that I’m painting … and selling the paintings a little on ebay.  I just made a few cloth dolls and sold a them on ebay also.  I have an idea

I’m

working on with a few other women … with dolls .. and it might go

over

well and bring in some income … and I’ve thought of having home

shows

with dolls that other folks make … and I resell .. but I’m not sure I

have

the energy for that either.  I’d really love to work on my paintings …

and

sell them more often. I may HAVE to go to work part time…. but it scares me so! He did so many things he didn’t have to do .. before he left …. he gave me his BIG monitor .. his new mouse, and ALL his memory … so I could

have

a nice computer system to work with.  He also gave me the printer.  He took out the mattress he had been sleeping on this morning before going to work … and he put his clothes in a plastic garbage bag.    :-( It hurt me so much to see him have to give up everything!  I had a

short

talk with him before he left … and told him that I’ve tried to do

this

as nice as I can … and that he knew we had to separate, that he wanted

it

too … and there was no easy way of doing it.  I told him I was so sorry that he had no money or place to stay … but I was scared for myself too

…

what I’m going to do … where I’m getting the money to live. He acted upset .. and hurt … more upset .. annoyed .. angry .. and that made me

feel

worse. I just don’t know … I’m so confused!  I’m SO scared that he’ll be in another woman’s arms soon … he’s in the pitcrew for his newphews racing team … and at the track there are so many opportunities.  I still do love him .. and yet I know he hurt me … and I know he wasn’t good for me

in

many ways … yet I hurt him too, and I wasn’t good for him.    I hate this!!  I know .. time .. time .. time .. but what if I made

a

mistake? ?????? I’m done now …. anybody? Dee

Response:

Hi J, I know … it seems that way .. but for today … and for a bit .. it will be hard for me to believe that.    :-( I do truly believe he wanted me to have nice things … all though I AM the one who asked for his monitor, he didn’t vollunteer it .. but he DID put in all his memory for me … Sorry … I’m starting to cry again … got to go … bad day .. first day … you know. Thanks so much for being here … Hugs, Dee J Rogow <JRo…@SpammenotNewsguy.com

wrote in message

news:bg3e0302tir@enews3.newsguy.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

He’s trying to send you on a major guilt-trip. Don’t go! Dee wrote: I’m just gonna vent and spill out my feelings for a bit .. hope you don’t mind … I sit here feeling terrible … as expected I’m sure.  I know it seems that when a bad thing stops, it’s suppose to be good … but not so … at least not right away.  How could I make him leave his home?  The only place he knew?  His office sits there with his computer, his papers … books .. software .. he SO wanted to learn Dreamweaver … I sit here crying as I type … cause I’m not so sure I wasn’t the one who made this go bad. I know .. you will say I’m blaming myself … and letting him get to me … but no .. not really .. I guess I’m really trying to be honest with myself. I wasn’t the perfect wife by no means … I mean… I know the REASON I yelled at him … and bitched … was because he hurt me .. and wasn’t there for me.. but he wasn’t there for me the way "I" wanted him to be … the way I needed.   Was that HIS fault?  Or was it just that he wasn’t the man I needed .. and never could be … and all my yellling and bitching … and calling him names .. and yes I admit .. I did call him so pretty bad things… did any of that help?  No!  All it did was push him further from me … and hurt him inside.  I guess I wish he were feeling these things too … it would make it easier on me .. that he’s hurting too .. that he’s sorry HE hurt ME too … He did so many things for me … while married … and before he left .. he set me up with my own business in the beginning .. not pushing me to work … and just work on my business … I did that for many years .. and did bring in some income .. but I would quit one idea and go to the next .. so my business never really took off good … nor did I ever make allot of money from it.  He worked hard .. all the time … and he never gave me a problem about working.  ok .. a few times he would say maybe I should go to work … and to tell the truth, back before I got sick … I just hated working!  I would find excuses … and he would accept them. Now .. I truly am sick … and it’s hard to imagine myself working full time … I’m almost positive I can’t.  I’m not sure about part time … I do know that I’m painting … and selling the paintings a little on ebay.  I just made a few cloth dolls and sold a them on ebay also.  I have an idea I’m working on with a few other women … with dolls .. and it might go over well and bring in some income … and I’ve thought of having home shows with dolls that other folks make … and I resell .. but I’m not sure I have the energy for that either.  I’d really love to work on my paintings … and sell them more often. I may HAVE to go to work part time…. but it scares me so! He did so many things he didn’t have to do .. before he left …. he gave me his BIG monitor .. his new mouse, and ALL his memory … so I could have a nice computer system to work with.  He also gave me the printer.  He took out the mattress he had been sleeping on this morning before going to work … and he put his clothes in a plastic garbage bag.    :-( It hurt me so much to see him have to give up everything!  I had a short talk with him before he left … and told him that I’ve tried to do this as nice as I can … and that he knew we had to separate, that he wanted it too … and there was no easy way of doing it.  I told him I was so sorry that he had no money or place to stay … but I was scared for myself too … what I’m going to do … where I’m getting the money to live. He acted upset .. and hurt … more upset .. annoyed .. angry .. and that made me feel worse. I just don’t know … I’m so confused!  I’m SO scared that he’ll be in another woman’s arms soon … he’s in the pitcrew for his newphews racing team … and at the track there are so many opportunities.  I still do love him .. and yet I know he hurt me … and I know he wasn’t good for me in many ways … yet I hurt him too, and I wasn’t    good for him. I hate this!!  I know .. time .. time .. time .. but what if I made a mistake? ?????? I’m done now …. anybody? Dee

Response:

Norma, I am SO bad about thinking about ME …. I have to say this: I have been told by a therapist at one time … that I have a small amount of borderline personality disorder.  I know I do .. cause I’ve read about it … and I fit it perfectly!  All except the wanting to commit suicide and cutting myself .. ick .. would never do that! BUT … part of the condition is being completely absorbed into the man in your life … and not being able to let go of what ‘he’s’ thinking .. feeling .. doing.  And jealousy and trust is a HUGE thing for me!  I mean I get SO hysterical .. that I’ll do some pretty stupid things out of jealousy!!  I dwell and dwell on what he’s doing when I’m not there … how he’ll be with women .. what they’ll do .. say … where they’ll go… how much happier he’ll be without me .. how much nicer they’ll treat him .. that somebody else .. younger, and healthier will treat him better .. and make him happy … and that will just KILL me … it will do me in, I swear! That’s how I am!!  I hate it … but it’s a reality! I’m seriously thinking of asking my doctor for an antidepressant during this time.. cause I KNOW if left on my own …. I’ll go crazy and do some damage to my system by the worrying and obsessions. He did prescribe Zoloft for me once .. but I never took them .. threw them away … maybe he’ll just call them in for me.  I’m very scared to take them … cause I’m on meds for hypertension and rapid heartbeat, and I think they raise the blood pressure … will have to talk to him about it.  But I do know I may need something … for the obsessivness .. or I’ll just lose it! Thanks so much for being here … As for ‘guilt’ .. as soon as I read what you said … and J too … I got defensive .. I mean .. inside my head and heart .. I said … NO .. he wasn’t making me feel guilty .. he  did it to be nice … he wanted me to have a nice computer when he was gone … and I still think that. Yes, I might consider talking on the phone .. maybe not just yet … today’s a hard day … crying lots and bleeding hard… some combination .. huh? Thanks so much … truly I mean that! Hugs, Dee PS… if I sound ungrateful or bitchy .. I truly don’t mean to come across that way … I’m just really hurting today! Norma <lup…@hotmail.com

wrote in message

news:viag6pkd7vrc76@corp.supernews.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Dee Dee Dee: Bless your heart. I know the pain seems impossible now, but you will be okay. Yes, time is the answer. It will get better day to day, week to

week.

Honey, it takes two to make a marriage and it takes two to break a

marriage.

Stop placing the all blame on yourself. According to his background you should be appalled. The only reason he "left" you the computer, etc. is called "GUILT".  He knows he’s done

wrong, > but won’t admit it.  However, that is no reason, just an excuse. > Get your feelings straightened out and get on with it.  Yes, dear it does > take time and we’ve all been there, so know, that it will get better. > If you want to send me a private email with your phone number, I will be > glad to call you and talk. > You have to concentrate on feeling better. That is the #1 priority. > Thinking of you, > Norma > "Dee" <particl…@earthlink.net

wrote in message

> news:7F9Va.122682$Io.10500495@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net… > > I’m just gonna vent and spill out my feelings for a bit .. hope you don’t

mind … I sit here feeling terrible … as expected I’m sure.  I know it seems that when a bad thing stops, it’s suppose to be good … but not so … at least not right away.  How could I make him leave his home?  The only place he knew?  His office sits there with his computer, his papers … books .. software .. he SO wanted to learn Dreamweaver … I sit here crying as I type … cause I’m not so sure I wasn’t the one who made this go bad. I know .. you will say I’m blaming myself … and letting him get to me … but no .. not really .. I guess I’m really trying to be  honest with myself. I wasn’t the perfect wife by no means … I mean… I know the REASON I yelled at him … and bitched … was because he hurt me .. and wasn’t there for me.. but he wasn’t there for me the way "I" wanted him to be … the way I needed.   Was that HIS fault?  Or was it just that he wasn’t the man I needed .. and never could be … and all my yellling and bitching …

and

calling him names .. and yes I admit .. I did call him so pretty bad things… did any of that help?  No!  All it did was push him further

from

me … and hurt him inside.  I guess I wish he were feeling these things too … it would make it easier on me .. that he’s hurting too .. that he’s sorry HE hurt ME too … He did so many things for me … while married … and before he left .. he set me up with my own business in the beginning .. not pushing me to

work

… and just work on my business … I did that for many years .. and

did

bring in some income .. but I would quit one idea and go to the next ..

so

my business never really took off good … nor did I ever make allot of money from it.  He worked hard .. all the time … and he never gave me

a

problem about working.  ok .. a few times he would say maybe I should go to work … and to tell the truth, back before I got sick … I just hated working!  I would find excuses … and he would accept them. Now .. I truly am sick … and it’s hard to imagine myself working full time … I’m almost positive I can’t.  I’m not sure about part time … I do know that I’m painting … and selling the paintings a little on ebay.  I

just

made a few cloth dolls and sold a them on ebay also.  I have an idea I’m working on with a few other women … with dolls .. and it might go over well and bring in some income … and I’ve thought of having home shows with dolls that other folks make … and I resell .. but I’m not sure I have the energy for that either.  I’d really love to work on my paintings … and sell them more often. I may HAVE to go to work part time…. but it scares me so! He did so many things he didn’t have to do .. before he left …. he

gave

me his BIG monitor .. his new mouse, and ALL his memory … so I could have

a

nice computer system to work with.  He also gave me the printer.  He

took

out the mattress he had been sleeping on this morning before going to

work

… and he put his clothes in a plastic garbage bag.    :-( It hurt me so much to see him have to give up everything!  I had a short talk with him before he left … and told him that I’ve tried to do this as nice as I can … and that he knew we had to separate, that he wanted it too … and there was no easy way of doing it.  I told him I was so sorry

that

he had no money or place to stay … but I was scared for myself too … what I’m going to do … where I’m getting the money to live. He acted upset .. and hurt … more upset .. annoyed .. angry .. and that made me feel worse. I just don’t know … I’m so confused!  I’m SO scared that he’ll be in another woman’s arms soon … he’s in the pitcrew for his newphews

racing

team … and at the track there are so many opportunities.  I still do love him .. and yet I know he hurt me … and I know he wasn’t good for me in many ways … yet I hurt him too, and I wasn’t good for him.    I hate this!!  I know .. time .. time .. time .. but what if I made a mistake? ?????? I’m done now …. anybody? Dee

Response:

Dee Dee Dee: Bless your heart. I know the pain seems impossible now, but you will be okay. Yes, time is the answer. It will get better day to day, week to week. Honey, it takes two to make a marriage and it takes two to break a marriage. Stop placing the all blame on yourself. According to his background you should be appalled. The only reason he "left" you the computer, etc. is called "GUILT".  He knows he’s done wrong, but won’t admit it.  However, that is no reason, just an excuse. Get your feelings straightened out and get on with it.  Yes, dear it does take time and we’ve all been there, so know, that it will get better. If you want to send me a private email with your phone number, I will be glad to call you and talk. You have to concentrate on feeling better. That is the #1 priority. Thinking of you, Norma "Dee" <particl…@earthlink.net

wrote in message

news:7F9Va.122682$Io.10500495@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

I’m just gonna vent and spill out my feelings for a bit .. hope you don’t mind … I sit here feeling terrible … as expected I’m sure.  I know it seems

that

when a bad thing stops, it’s suppose to be good … but not so … at

least

not right away.  How could I make him leave his home?  The only place he knew?  His office sits there with his computer, his papers … books .. software .. he SO wanted to learn Dreamweaver … I sit here crying as I type … cause I’m not so sure I wasn’t the one who made this go bad. I know .. you will say I’m blaming myself … and letting him get to me

…

but no .. not really .. I guess I’m really trying to be  honest with

myself.

I wasn’t the perfect wife by no means … I mean… I know the REASON I yelled at him … and bitched … was because he hurt me .. and wasn’t

there

for me.. but he wasn’t there for me the way "I" wanted him to be … the

way

I needed.   Was that HIS fault?  Or was it just that he wasn’t the man I needed .. and never could be … and all my yellling and bitching … and calling him names .. and yes I admit .. I did call him so pretty bad things… did any of that help?  No!  All it did was push him further from me … and hurt him inside.  I guess I wish he were feeling these things

too

… it would make it easier on me .. that he’s hurting too .. that he’s sorry HE hurt ME too … He did so many things for me … while married … and before he left ..

he

set me up with my own business in the beginning .. not pushing me to work … and just work on my business … I did that for many years .. and did bring in some income .. but I would quit one idea and go to the next .. so my business never really took off good … nor did I ever make allot of money from it.  He worked hard .. all the time … and he never gave me a problem about working.  ok .. a few times he would say maybe I should go

to

work … and to tell the truth, back before I got sick … I just hated working!  I would find excuses … and he would accept them. Now .. I truly am sick … and it’s hard to imagine myself working full

time

… I’m almost positive I can’t.  I’m not sure about part time … I do

know

that I’m painting … and selling the paintings a little on ebay.  I just made a few cloth dolls and sold a them on ebay also.  I have an idea I’m working on with a few other women … with dolls .. and it might go over well and bring in some income … and I’ve thought of having home shows

with

dolls that other folks make … and I resell .. but I’m not sure I have

the

energy for that either.  I’d really love to work on my paintings … and sell them more often. I may HAVE to go to work part time…. but it scares me so! He did so many things he didn’t have to do .. before he left …. he gave

me

his BIG monitor .. his new mouse, and ALL his memory … so I could have a nice computer system to work with.  He also gave me the printer.  He took out the mattress he had been sleeping on this morning before going to work … and he put his clothes in a plastic garbage bag.    :-( It hurt me so much to see him have to give up everything!  I had a short talk with him before he left … and told him that I’ve tried to do this

as

nice as I can … and that he knew we had to separate, that he wanted it

too

… and there was no easy way of doing it.  I told him I was so sorry that he had no money or place to stay … but I was scared for myself too … what I’m going to do … where I’m getting the money to live. He acted

upset

.. and hurt … more upset .. annoyed .. angry .. and that made me feel worse. I just don’t know … I’m so confused!  I’m SO scared that he’ll be in another woman’s arms soon … he’s in the pitcrew for his newphews racing team … and at the track there are so many opportunities.  I still do

love

him .. and yet I know he hurt me … and I know he wasn’t good for me in many ways … yet I hurt him too, and I wasn’t good for him.    I hate this!!  I know .. time .. time .. time .. but what if I made a mistake? ?????? I’m done now …. anybody? Dee

Response:

He’s trying to send you on a major guilt-trip. Don’t go! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Dee wrote:

I’m just gonna vent and spill out my feelings for a bit .. hope you don’t mind … I sit here feeling terrible … as expected I’m sure.  I know it seems that when a bad thing stops, it’s suppose to be good … but not so … at least not right away.  How could I make him leave his home?  The only place he knew?  His office sits there with his computer, his papers … books .. software .. he SO wanted to learn Dreamweaver … I sit here crying as I type … cause I’m not so sure I wasn’t the one who made this go bad. I know .. you will say I’m blaming myself … and letting him get to me … but no .. not really .. I guess I’m really trying to be honest with myself. I wasn’t the perfect wife by no means … I mean… I know the REASON I yelled at him … and bitched … was because he hurt me .. and wasn’t there for me.. but he wasn’t there for me the way "I" wanted him to be … the way I needed.   Was that HIS fault?  Or was it just that he wasn’t the man I needed .. and never could be … and all my yellling and bitching … and calling him names .. and yes I admit .. I did call him so pretty bad things… did any of that help?  No!  All it did was push him further from me … and hurt him inside.  I guess I wish he were feeling these things too … it would make it easier on me .. that he’s hurting too .. that he’s sorry HE hurt ME too … He did so many things for me … while married … and before he left .. he set me up with my own business in the beginning .. not pushing me to work … and just work on my business … I did that for many years .. and did bring in some income .. but I would quit one idea and go to the next .. so my business never really took off good … nor did I ever make allot of money from it.  He worked hard .. all the time … and he never gave me a problem about working.  ok .. a few times he would say maybe I should go to work … and to tell the truth, back before I got sick … I just hated working!  I would find excuses … and he would accept them. Now .. I truly am sick … and it’s hard to imagine myself working full time … I’m almost positive I can’t.  I’m not sure about part time … I do know that I’m painting … and selling the paintings a little on ebay.  I just made a few cloth dolls and sold a them on ebay also.  I have an idea I’m working on with a few other women … with dolls .. and it might go over well and bring in some income … and I’ve thought of having home shows with dolls that other folks make … and I resell .. but I’m not sure I have the energy for that either.  I’d really love to work on my paintings … and sell them more often. I may HAVE to go to work part time…. but it scares me so! He did so many things he didn’t have to do .. before he left …. he gave me his BIG monitor .. his new mouse, and ALL his memory … so I could have a nice computer system to work with.  He also gave me the printer.  He took out the mattress he had been sleeping on this morning before going to work … and he put his clothes in a plastic garbage bag.    :-( It hurt me so much to see him have to give up everything!  I had a short talk with him before he left … and told him that I’ve tried to do this as nice as I can … and that he knew we had to separate, that he wanted it too … and there was no easy way of doing it.  I told him I was so sorry that he had no money or place to stay … but I was scared for myself too … what I’m going to do … where I’m getting the money to live. He acted upset .. and hurt … more upset .. annoyed .. angry .. and that made me feel worse. I just don’t know … I’m so confused!  I’m SO scared that he’ll be in another woman’s arms soon … he’s in the pitcrew for his newphews racing team … and at the track there are so many opportunities.  I still do love him .. and yet I know he hurt me … and I know he wasn’t good for me in many ways … yet I hurt him too, and I wasn’t    good for him. I hate this!!  I know .. time .. time .. time .. but what if I made a mistake? ?????? I’m done now …. anybody? Dee

Response:

I just felt I needed to tell what he did to hurt me in our marriage… cause as I re-read my first post, I see me blaming myself for everything … well .. for allot. I think the things that hurt the most were:  him being immature and not standing up for me with his family, not taking MY side .. but theirs.  Not making his children respect me when they first met me.  His brother can do NO wrong … and he’s hurt me terribly standing up for his brother over me and my feelings.  When his nephews would talk vulgar and degrading about women (which is MOST of the time), and I told him it bothered me to be around them … he got mad at ME … telling me that’s how they are … and either I don’t go to the house … or I accept it… instead of him saying something .. standing up for me. He had a past with very young girls .. as you recall …. and I always felt (all though he never said this) that I was in competition with them … and with the last live-in 16 year old he was with.  She of course, was 16 .. and healthy … lively .. and loved the races!  Her father and brother raced too … so she was raised in it, and knew all about it .. which I never did.  I enjoyed going with him on occasion, but when I did … it would be the family that talks vulgar … and they pretty much ignored me most of the night … but Jim would get upset at me for not being more friendly … but I was .. it’s just that they’re so cold … and I feel very uncomfortable around them.  But he always wanted to go anyway … without me … and he did several times … and I sat home sad and lonely. He was very unaffectionate … and hardly ever hugged me, or kissed me on his own.  We could go for days without touching … if I didn’t approach him.  It was very hard on me.. as I’m a very lovable person.  Even when I DID approach him, many times he got annoyed … or would ‘grab’ me … and want sex.  Now mind you .. I love sex … probably more than he does … so that wasn’t a problem him wanting sex .. but it WAS a problem that sex was always ‘FU—-G’ if you can read between the letters.  And it was always quick and dirty .. him using very vulgar words and expressions.  I didn’t mind that once in a while … but not all the time!  When I would ask him to make love to me … he would get annoyed and not know what to do! And when I tried talking to him about these things .. he would get mad or annoyed and say that if I didn’t find fault (that’s his way of saying that I want to talk about things that were bothering me) … then he could be the husband I needed.  I doubt it .. cause when we were in marriage counseling … I followed the counselor and went 2 straight weeks without asking him for anything … or picking on him … or finding any fault .. or asking him to talk .. nothing.  I was as sweet and loving and helpful to him as I could be.  What happened?  He got me flowers once .. and that’s it!  He dropped the bomb on me … and never did much of anything else .. that the counselor told him to work on.  The counselor told me that he just didn’t want to work on his life .. or our marriage.  ’sigh’ His whole family is cold … and hard to get close to … and critical .. so I guess he’s part of the family! I really didn’t mean to just come in here and bash him … I guess I’m sort of journaling publicly .. to see how he’s hurt me … to remember … but .. ’sigh’ … when I feel sad about things .. it still doesn’t help.    :-( Hold my hand guys … and lend a shoulder … this is the hard time’s a comin! Hugs, Dee

Response:

I’m just gonna vent and spill out my feelings for a bit .. hope you don’t mind … I sit here feeling terrible … as expected I’m sure.  I know it seems that when a bad thing stops, it’s suppose to be good … but not so … at least not right away.  How could I make him leave his home?  The only place he knew?  His office sits there with his computer, his papers … books .. software .. he SO wanted to learn Dreamweaver … I sit here crying as I type … cause I’m not so sure I wasn’t the one who made this go bad. I know .. you will say I’m blaming myself … and letting him get to me … but no .. not really .. I guess I’m really trying to be  honest with myself. I wasn’t the perfect wife by no means … I mean… I know the REASON I yelled at him … and bitched … was because he hurt me .. and wasn’t there for me.. but he wasn’t there for me the way "I" wanted him to be … the way I needed.   Was that HIS fault?  Or was it just that he wasn’t the man I needed .. and never could be … and all my yellling and bitching … and calling him names .. and yes I admit .. I did call him so pretty bad things… did any of that help?  No!  All it did was push him further from me … and hurt him inside.  I guess I wish he were feeling these things too … it would make it easier on me .. that he’s hurting too .. that he’s sorry HE hurt ME too … He did so many things for me … while married … and before he left .. he set me up with my own business in the beginning .. not pushing me to work … and just work on my business … I did that for many years .. and did bring in some income .. but I would quit one idea and go to the next .. so my business never really took off good … nor did I ever make allot of money from it.  He worked hard .. all the time … and he never gave me a problem about working.  ok .. a few times he would say maybe I should go to work … and to tell the truth, back before I got sick … I just hated working!  I would find excuses … and he would accept them. Now .. I truly am sick … and it’s hard to imagine myself working full time … I’m almost positive I can’t.  I’m not sure about part time … I do know that I’m painting … and selling the paintings a little on ebay.  I just made a few cloth dolls and sold a them on ebay also.  I have an idea I’m working on with a few other women … with dolls .. and it might go over well and bring in some income … and I’ve thought of having home shows with dolls that other folks make … and I resell .. but I’m not sure I have the energy for that either.  I’d really love to work on my paintings … and sell them more often. I may HAVE to go to work part time…. but it scares me so! He did so many things he didn’t have to do .. before he left …. he gave me his BIG monitor .. his new mouse, and ALL his memory … so I could have a nice computer system to work with.  He also gave me the printer.  He took out the mattress he had been sleeping on this morning before going to work … and he put his clothes in a plastic garbage bag.    :-( It hurt me so much to see him have to give up everything!  I had a short talk with him before he left … and told him that I’ve tried to do this as nice as I can … and that he knew we had to separate, that he wanted it too … and there was no easy way of doing it.  I told him I was so sorry that he had no money or place to stay … but I was scared for myself too … what I’m going to do … where I’m getting the money to live. He acted upset .. and hurt … more upset .. annoyed .. angry .. and that made me feel worse. I just don’t know … I’m so confused!  I’m SO scared that he’ll be in another woman’s arms soon … he’s in the pitcrew for his newphews racing team … and at the track there are so many opportunities.  I still do love him .. and yet I know he hurt me … and I know he wasn’t good for me in many ways … yet I hurt him too, and I wasn’t good for him.    I hate this!!  I know .. time .. time .. time .. but what if I made a mistake? ?????? I’m done now …. anybody? Dee

Response:

Question:

I need to break my silence and delurk for a few minutes.

I’m glad you are giving up your silence. but he doesn’t think I’m doing enough to fight my depression, and that I’m just giving in and staying in bed too much.

<nod, nod I know this one. , and my moods can change so rapidly

Mine too. I just can’t sleep properly.  I just want to feel rested, and to wake up and not still feel tired.  It would be great not to wake up heaps of times during the night.  I’m back taking valium again,

OK, NOW you’re really starting to sound like me but I went on Xanax. The last two nights, I’ve taken more than I’m supposed to, hoping that an extra pill or two will be enough to let me sleep.

I’m not telling but I might do this too but the Xanax does knock me out for a while. I also have been having weird and bad dreams again. I hope you start doing better soon. Maybe by opening up it will help. Mary Beth p’ed and e’d

Response:

I haven’t posted anything in almost 2 weeks now.  Perhaps I wanted to see if anyone would miss me….It doesn’t matter though.  I need to break my

hugs to you too! Sfunny..  I was just thinking I hadn’t seen you for a while in asd… glad to see that you are okayish…. I know how you feel about tiredness…  I’m on 225mg daily of effexor, and i constantly feel very tired…..  I sleep ok, but i wake at 7am every day ((( have you tried herbal sleeping pills???  They may mess up with your meds….  Not getting enough sleep is annoying…. Have you mentioned your sleeping problems to your GP/therapist??? Don’t worry for posting for selfish reasons….  you have helped us loads of times in the past, so it’s time that we helped you…. Take care of yourself you hear??? Brian… Pooh…  Something stinks in my room….  Better get the hoover out!!! /~~ The Depressed Nudist ~~

Response:

I need to break my silence and delurk for a few minutes. I’m glad you are giving up your silence.

Thanks.  Staying silent seems safer, but I know talking and stepping over the other boundaries that I think keep me safe is the only way for me to make progress. but he doesn’t think I’m doing enough to fight my depression, and that I’m just giving in and staying in bed too much. <nod, nod I know this one.

It’s hard for people, even those who, like Leigh, have battled some depression themselves, to see things from my point of view.  When some days just getting out of bed is a great achievement, or even just staying alive, it seems to me like I’m making a huge effort.  But other people can’t read my mind, and they don’t know how hard some days can be, so to them, it seems like I’m doing nothing. , and my moods can change so rapidly Mine too.

This is new for me, since I’m not bipolar.  All I know is that one day, or even one hour, I can feel fairly good, and the next I’m crying or just unable to function at all.  It’s taking a bit of getting used to. I just can’t sleep properly.  I just want to feel rested, and to wake up and not still feel tired.  It would be great not to wake up heaps of times during the night.  I’m back taking valium again, OK, NOW you’re really starting to sound like me but I went on Xanax.

I haven’t slept well in years, so I’m thinking of telling my pdoc when I see him next week if I can try a different sedative, because obviously the valium isn’t working as well as it’s supposed to. The last two nights, I’ve taken more than I’m supposed to, hoping that an extra pill or two will be enough to let me sleep. I’m not telling but I might do this too but the Xanax does knock me out for a while. I also have been having weird and bad dreams again. I hope you start doing better soon. Maybe by opening up it will help. Mary Beth p’ed and e’d

Thanks Mary Beth.  I’m glad you’ve found a pill that helps you sleep, at least at the moment anyway.  Luckily, I haven’t had many medication induced dreams (in fact, I rarely dream at all) so I really hope those go away quickly. I hope opening up a bit and posting again helps me, because nothing else seems to be working anymore. Also, thanks for responding to my post.  You don’t usually respond to things I write, and I was starting to wonder if I’d offended you or something.  I couldn’t think of how I might have done that, but I felt like I was being ignored.  I’m glad I’ve been proven wrong, and I can assume those thoughts were my own paranoia sneaking in again. I would have said that via e-mail, rather than posting it to the group,  but my proxy server is screwed up at the moment, and I can’t access my web based mail, only the account and newsgroups I have set up through Outlook Express. Thanks again, Kylie.

Response:

CAREFUL WITH THE VALIUM. It is a muscle relaxant. And your Heart is a MUSCLE. I do hope you find something to help you get some sleep. Have you tried Ambien or Deseryl? I flip and flop like a fish out of water at times when i try to sleep at night, i have been meaning to go to a sleep clinic. If you constantly wake up, you will never get into your REM stage of sleep and you will feel tired all of the time. I hope that you are doing better. Sincerely, Trish

Response:

It sure sounds like you’ve been through an unbelievable amount of shit.  I can’t even imagine.

Yep, an "unbelievable amount of shit" sums it up pretty well, although there are others here who have been through worse.  I’ve been diagnosed for about 14 months now, and on meds for about 8 months, yet nothing has made any difference.  I’m now failing out of uni because I can’t function properly, and I’m just trying to hang in there until my psychiatrist finds a medication that works for me.  He does believe I will respond to an SSRI, but since there’s a hell of a lot of them it could take a while to find the right one.   I have depression and have been "lucky" – I found a – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – great shrink many years ago who knew what she was doing about medication and put me on Parnate, which I have been taking for almost 10 years.  I also have seen her on a regular basis for psychotherapy.  It sound horrible that you had to experience these kind of side effects on your medication.  A competent doctor should work with you to find the best medicine for you which does not have those kind of effects.  There are so many medications available now – for me, I only got real help when I went to a shrink who was trained in psychopharmocology.  It was a great combination – she knew everything about the medicines and was a great psychotherapist.  There are a lot of people out there like that.  Maybe you could find a better shrink/therapist who would work more closely with you to get the right meds which don’t fuck up your body.  Good luck.

I’m not considering changing therapists or psychiatrists yet, because I have a great relationship with my therp, and my pdoc’s specialty is abuse and trauma survivors, which is what I need, and he is nice.  I will admit that the side-effects are a total pain in the arse, but hopefully I will find a good med soon which will work, so I don’t have to keep getting used to new meds and adjusting to new effects. Thanks for caring, and I’ll definitely keep what you’ve said about changing therps or pdocs if I don’t start making some progress soon. Kylie. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I haven’t posted anything in almost 2 weeks now.  Perhaps I wanted to see if anyone would miss me….It doesn’t matter though.  I need to break my silence and delurk for a few minutes. I’ve been on the medication side-effects roller-coaster for a while now, but my body has finally adjusted to Effexor XR 150 mg.  Before then, I had days of vomiting, and one really scary day when I couldn’t stand up or walk without feeling like I’d pass out, and my hands and feet going numb.  I ended up at the hospital for that one, but there wasn’t anything they could do.  I just had to adjust. Leigh and I are still together, but our relationship has been weakened recently by lots of fights, all caused by my moods.  He’s trying to be there for me, and understand how I’m feeling, but he doesn’t think I’m doing enough to fight my depression, and that I’m just giving in and staying in bed too much.  I tell him that I can’t leave my little room to stay at his place overnight, like I do every Tuesday night, and he gets angry.  I just need some space sometimes, and my moods can change so rapidly I  just know I need to be alone sometimes because I don’t want to say something and hurt him.  I love him too much. I haven’t seen my therp or pdoc in weeks.  I’ve spoken to both of them briefly on the phone, but that’s it.  I was genuinely sick last Monday, so I cancelled my appointment, and spoke to my therp on the phone instead. This Monday though, I wasn’t too sick to go.  I just couldn’t leave here, so I rang up and said I was still sick.  I only spoke to the receptionist.  I know I should get out of here and go see someone, but I don’t know if I can. I’m so tired, and all I want to do is sleep.  Getting dressed and walking to the counselling centre seems like too much. I just can’t sleep properly.  I just want to feel rested, and to wake up and not still feel tired.  It would be great not to wake up heaps of times during the night.  I’m back taking valium again, and even that isn’t working.  The last two nights, I’ve taken more than I’m supposed to, hoping that an extra pill or two will be enough to let me sleep.  It still hasn’t worked.  I take the maximum doseage when I go to bed, and still wake up within a couple of hours.  So I take an extra pill, hoping it will help me get back to sleep and stay asleep.  But I still wake up again and again. After a while I take one more, just hoping I’ll be able to sleep, but nothing works.  And yes, I do realise how scary that sounds, but I’m not going to take too many. Well, I guess that’s all the ranting I have to do at the moment.  Sorry for not posting lately.  There’s been a lot I wanted to say, but I just haven’t been able to come out of my shell.  Figures the time I do come out and post again, it’s for totally selfish reasons. Hugs to everyone.  I’ve been lurking, and have been with you all in my heart. Kylie. — ***** "I may seem alright and smile when you leave, but my smiles are just a front." "I try" – Macy Gray website:  http://members.dcscomp.com.au/thomas *****

Response:

I haven’t posted anything in almost 2 weeks now.  Perhaps I wanted to see if anyone would miss me….It doesn’t matter though.  I need to break my silence and delurk for a few minutes. i’ve missed you. sorry, i should have said something. i’m glad you posted though, and i’m sorry things are not better for you right now. keep hangin on, kylie.

Thanks.  I didn’t think anyone had noticed I was gone.  I was hoping someone would care and post an MIA or something, but I needed to talk so I decided that my pride isn’t that important after all, and I should do what’s right for me, which is posting when I need to. I’m still hanging on, even though it’s really tough some days.  I keep going because of the slight hope that things will get better, so I’m clinging to that as tight as I can. {{{{{{kylie}}}}}}

Thanks  Right back at ya. Kylie. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — "there is a sadness that grows up around me like a weed" (ani) http://shattering.org x-no-archive: yes in the headers —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

I haven’t posted anything in almost 2 weeks now.  Perhaps I wanted to see if anyone would miss me….It doesn’t matter though.  I need to break my hugs to you too! Sfunny..  I was just thinking I hadn’t seen you for a while in asd… glad to see that you are okayish….

Thanks.  I didn’t think people would notice that I was gone. I know how you feel about tiredness…  I’m on 225mg daily of effexor, and i constantly feel very tired…..  I sleep ok, but i wake at 7am every day (((

I understand.  Last year, I had problems falling asleep.  Now, I can fall asleep fairly quickly, but I just can’t stay asleep.  It’s become normal for me to wake up every 2 or 3 hours for no reason at all. have you tried herbal sleeping pills???  They may mess up with your meds….  Not getting enough sleep is annoying….

My boyfriend gave me some herbal pills called Valerian which sometimes work, and they don’t seem to interfere with my meds, but the instructions say take 3-6 tablets at night to improve sleep, and it takes the full 6 to have any effect at all for me, so I’m going through the bottle very quickly, and they’re expensive.  Unfortunatly I’m on a limited budget, so that has to be a consideration. Have you mentioned your sleeping problems to your GP/therapist???

Heaps of times.  They keep telling me the antidepressants or the valium will work, but since it’s becoming more and more obvious that they aren’t, hopefully they’ll decide to try something else. Don’t worry for posting for selfish reasons….  you have helped us loads of times in the past, so it’s time that we helped you….

I suppose…..It still feels like I’m being selfish though. Take care of yourself you hear???

I hear, and I’m trying. Brian… Pooh…  Something stinks in my room….  Better get the hoover out!!!

hehehehe Thanks Brian, Kylie. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – /~~ The Depressed Nudist ~~

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CAREFUL WITH THE VALIUM. It is a muscle relaxant. And your Heart is a MUSCLE. I do hope you find something to help you get some sleep. Have you tried Ambien or Deseryl? I flip and flop like a fish out of water at times when i try to sleep at night, i have been meaning to go to a sleep clinic. If you constantly wake up, you will never get into your REM stage of sleep and you will feel tired all of the time. I hope that you are doing better. Sincerely, Trish

Thanks Trish. I know it was stupid to take that much Valium.  The only good thing was that I spaced the pills out through the night, rather than taking double my maximum dose all at once.  I’m just willing to try anything if it means I’ll get a good nights sleep, and not constantly feel exhausted.  I had no other intentions. I’m feeling a little bit better at the moment, but I hope stress doesn’t kick in too badly with my exams approaching, because I know how much that effects me.  I’m just hanging in there and hoping that my pdoc will have some new suggestions when I see him next week. Again, thanks for your concern.  I know it was a mistake, and I won’t experiment with my valium doseage again. Kylie.

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I also have been having weird and bad dreams again.

Are you sharing all your dreams with Terry? Is he interested, or bored? If he is bored, you could tell me instead. I could be your new husband for that purpose, until Jun.05 anyway.

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<<I can’t access my web based mail, only the account and newsgroups I have set up through Outlook Express. Did you get the e-mail I sent you on May.05&06?

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<<I can fall asleep fairly quickly, but I just can’t stay asleep. It’s become normal for me to wake up every 2 or 3 hours for no reason at all. I’m that way normally. If it’s dark at night, I fall back to sleep each time, but if I go to bed really late at night, then when it’s already morning light and I wake up I can’t get back to sleep. By the way, it’s 3AM now, which means I am going to get only 2.5 hours sleep before first light wakes me up and I can’t get back to sleep, shit!

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little mouse said: <<I haven’t posted anything in almost 2 weeks now. Perhaps I wanted to see if anyone would miss me. Last Fall we were exchanging e-mail. I was encouraging you to say ‘hi’ to people etc. to overcome shyness. Apparently my advice worked, because you met your sweetheart ‘Leigh’ and ended your virginity with him. But when I e-mailed you a few weeks ago because you were hurting so bad and I wanted to help you, you ignored my e-mail, never replied. What’s wrong with you? <<Leigh and I are still together, but our relationship has been weakened recently by lots of fights, all caused by my moods. Oh, that’s so sad. I was so happy for you when you found Leigh. Leigh, if you are reading this, when she’s depressed DON’T fight with her, just hold her in your arms and let her know you love her, and ignore anything she says that seems to come from her depression. Don’t let her bad mood sucker you into a fight with her. Just give her the love she deserves, and which I know you want to give her but she resists it. Give it anyway, even if she says no sometimes. Let her know you love her in sickness and in health, for better or for worse, unconditionally. If you don’t actually love her like that, send me private e-mail so we can discuss it without her eavesdropping on it (remove my "shell." to get correct address). <<He’s trying to be there for me, and understand how I’m feeling, but he doesn’t think I’m doing enough to fight my depression, and that I’m just giving in and staying in bed too much.  I tell him that I can’t leave my little room to stay at his place overnight, like I do every Tuesday night, and he gets angry. Leigh, she can’t come to your place, she’s too emotionally low. You need to go to her place and stay with her. When she feels better THEN she can come to your place again. Don’t get angry at her for being lazy at times like this, you hear?? I cared about her before you even met her, and I still care about her, and I’m not going to let you treat her bad in her time of need. <<I just need some space sometimes, and my moods can change so rapidly I  just know I need to be alone sometimes because I don’t want to say something and hurt him.  I love him too much. No, don’t do that! He loves you and wants to help you. Don’t turn him away. He’ll be hurt more by not being allowed to be with you and help you, and worry if you’ll commit suicide while he’s gone, than any trivial hurt from something that "hurts" him. Please don’t turn him away if he wants to help you get through this. Please don’t worry about saying something to hurt him. Please listen to my advice. <<There’s been a lot I wanted to say, but I just haven’t been able to come out of my shell. Back to shy like you were last Summer? I got that way myself from August to early April, due to depression caused by SweetPest’s ending our friendship and nobody else in Real Life ever wanting me. So I understand. But if you let Leigh be with you almost all the time, and let him hug and kiss you many hours per day, you won’t get so depressed as I was totally alone with not a single person ever calling or visiting to check if I was alive much less feeling OK. <<Figures the time I do come out and post again, it’s for totally selfish reasons. That’s fine with me. You need help right now. My help is yours.

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I haven’t posted anything in almost 2 weeks now.  Perhaps I wanted to see if anyone would miss me….It doesn’t matter though.  I need to break my silence and delurk for a few minutes. I’ve been on the medication side-effects roller-coaster for a while now, but my body has finally adjusted to Effexor XR 150 mg.  Before then, I had days of vomiting, and one really scary day when I couldn’t stand up or walk without feeling like I’d pass out, and my hands and feet going numb.  I ended up at the hospital for that one, but there wasn’t anything they could do.  I just had to adjust. Leigh and I are still together, but our relationship has been weakened recently by lots of fights, all caused by my moods.  He’s trying to be there for me, and understand how I’m feeling, but he doesn’t think I’m doing enough to fight my depression, and that I’m just giving in and staying in bed too much.  I tell him that I can’t leave my little room to stay at his place overnight, like I do every Tuesday night, and he gets angry.  I just need some space sometimes, and my moods can change so rapidly I  just know I need to be alone sometimes because I don’t want to say something and hurt him.  I love him too much. I haven’t seen my therp or pdoc in weeks.  I’ve spoken to both of them briefly on the phone, but that’s it.  I was genuinely sick last Monday, so I cancelled my appointment, and spoke to my therp on the phone instead.  This Monday though, I wasn’t too sick to go.  I just couldn’t leave here, so I rang up and said I was still sick.  I only spoke to the receptionist.  I know I should get out of here and go see someone, but I don’t know if I can. I’m so tired, and all I want to do is sleep.  Getting dressed and walking to the counselling centre seems like too much. I just can’t sleep properly.  I just want to feel rested, and to wake up and not still feel tired.  It would be great not to wake up heaps of times during the night.  I’m back taking valium again, and even that isn’t working.  The last two nights, I’ve taken more than I’m supposed to, hoping that an extra pill or two will be enough to let me sleep.  It still hasn’t worked.  I take the maximum doseage when I go to bed, and still wake up within a couple of hours.  So I take an extra pill, hoping it will help me get back to sleep and stay asleep.  But I still wake up again and again. After a while I take one more, just hoping I’ll be able to sleep, but nothing works.  And yes, I do realise how scary that sounds, but I’m not going to take too many. Well, I guess that’s all the ranting I have to do at the moment.  Sorry for not posting lately.  There’s been a lot I wanted to say, but I just haven’t been able to come out of my shell.  Figures the time I do come out and post again, it’s for totally selfish reasons. Hugs to everyone.  I’ve been lurking, and have been with you all in my heart. Kylie. — ***** "I may seem alright and smile when you leave, but my smiles are just a front." "I try" – Macy Gray website:  http://members.dcscomp.com.au/thomas *****

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It sure sounds like you’ve been through an unbelievable amount of shit.  I can’t even imagine.  I have depression and have been "lucky" – I found a great shrink many years ago who knew what she was doing about medication and put me on Parnate, which I have been taking for almost 10 years.  I also have seen her on a regular basis for psychotherapy.  It sound horrible that you had to experience these kind of side effects on your medication.  A competent doctor should work with you to find the best medicine for you which does not have those kind of effects.  There are so many medications available now – for me, I only got real help when I went to a shrink who was trained in psychopharmocology.  It was a great combination – she knew everything about the medicines and was a great psychotherapist.  There are a lot of people out there like that.  Maybe you could find a better shrink/therapist who would work more closely with you to get the right meds which don’t fuck up your body.  Good luck.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I haven’t posted anything in almost 2 weeks now.  Perhaps I wanted to see if anyone would miss me….It doesn’t matter though.  I need to break my silence and delurk for a few minutes. I’ve been on the medication side-effects roller-coaster for a while now, but my body has finally adjusted to Effexor XR 150 mg.  Before then, I had days of vomiting, and one really scary day when I couldn’t stand up or walk without feeling like I’d pass out, and my hands and feet going numb.  I ended up at the hospital for that one, but there wasn’t anything they could do.  I just had to adjust. Leigh and I are still together, but our relationship has been weakened recently by lots of fights, all caused by my moods.  He’s trying to be there for me, and understand how I’m feeling, but he doesn’t think I’m doing enough to fight my depression, and that I’m just giving in and staying in bed too much.  I tell him that I can’t leave my little room to stay at his place overnight, like I do every Tuesday night, and he gets angry.  I just need some space sometimes, and my moods can change so rapidly I  just know I need to be alone sometimes because I don’t want to say something and hurt him.  I love him too much. I haven’t seen my therp or pdoc in weeks.  I’ve spoken to both of them briefly on the phone, but that’s it.  I was genuinely sick last Monday, so I cancelled my appointment, and spoke to my therp on the phone instead. This Monday though, I wasn’t too sick to go.  I just couldn’t leave here, so I rang up and said I was still sick.  I only spoke to the receptionist.  I know I should get out of here and go see someone, but I don’t know if I can. I’m so tired, and all I want to do is sleep.  Getting dressed and walking to the counselling centre seems like too much. I just can’t sleep properly.  I just want to feel rested, and to wake up and not still feel tired.  It would be great not to wake up heaps of times during the night.  I’m back taking valium again, and even that isn’t working.  The last two nights, I’ve taken more than I’m supposed to, hoping that an extra pill or two will be enough to let me sleep.  It still hasn’t worked.  I take the maximum doseage when I go to bed, and still wake up within a couple of hours.  So I take an extra pill, hoping it will help me get back to sleep and stay asleep.  But I still wake up again and again. After a while I take one more, just hoping I’ll be able to sleep, but nothing works.  And yes, I do realise how scary that sounds, but I’m not going to take too many. Well, I guess that’s all the ranting I have to do at the moment.  Sorry for not posting lately.  There’s been a lot I wanted to say, but I just haven’t been able to come out of my shell.  Figures the time I do come out and post again, it’s for totally selfish reasons. Hugs to everyone.  I’ve been lurking, and have been with you all in my heart. Kylie. — ***** "I may seem alright and smile when you leave, but my smiles are just a front." "I try" – Macy Gray website:  http://members.dcscomp.com.au/thomas *****

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Question:

Wait and take the next one when you are suppose. If you missed one dosage it won’t hurt you. You may want to get a pill box and then if you think you have missed a dosage you can look and tell if it missing. Hope your day goes well. K. HAVE A WONDERFULLY FUN FILLED DAY!!!!

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I usually cant remember whether I took my meds or not so I went out and bought one of those cute pill reminder box. Mine is plastic and about 4 in. long and a thumbnail wide.It has 7 little compartments with each one having a snap top and the letter of the week on top. They come in many sizes depending on how many pills a day you have to take. I fill mine once a week. If I am about to run out of a med I see it coming a week in advance. Also if you suffer from OCD it really helps you KNOW that you took that pill, so you wont obsess on that. Or if you just have 10 million things on your plate and cant remeber much of anything anymore, lol, it helps. Chow love Brenda

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have to respond to this having made this mistake myself not long ago. DO NOT take the extra dose!!! I did that and overdosed myself. You will be better off waiting until your next scheduled dose and just going from there. Your body will not miss the zoloft if you’ve been on it awhile. Just don’t make a habit of it, ok? Mary That’s good advice. What happened when you overdosed, Mary? Philip (just curious)

Well Philip, I took 250 mgs instead of 150. I spent the whole day sitting on the couch wondering how I could have been so stupid. I also spent the day on the couch because every muscle in my body was vibrating and I had very little motor control. But I wasn’t depressed. How could I be with that much of an ad in my system? I pormised myself never to do it again. (I was sleepy when I took my meds that morning and couldn’t remember taking the one pill, so I took another) I went to the store the next day and bought myself a pill organizer that holds all your meds for every day of the week. Now I take the correct dose everyday while feeling like an alzheimer’s patient because at the age of 31, I can’t remember to take my meds correctly. Mary – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  Well, I have been here and lurking…I try to respond privately when I feel I can help…To be honest, the only reason I haven’t been responding on the newsgroup is because I found deja.com…When I discovered all my messages, I felt my privacy was invaded a bit much…Anyway, I now have a question that needs the newsgroup and can’t be dealt with privately, so here it is… Hi Chuck, I’m sorry I can’t be of much help with Zoloft but I do have a solution for this problem.  There are 2 options. If your reader allows it (Agent does) you can have the line "x-no-archive: yes" (without quotes) added to your header. If you can’t find out how to do this, the other option is to make that same line (x-no-archive: yes) the *very first* line of your post.  I took some sleeping meds last night, and this morning I woke up late and don’t recall if I took my Zoloft in the morning (as I usually do)…I fear I have missed it…I have been doing excellent on Zoloft Ok now, you are not sure, you *fear* you’ve forgotten. I would say, don’t try to catch up the dose. AFAIK, it’s not good to ever try to catch up a forgotten AD dose. Just lleave it for what it is and take your regular dose tomorrow morning. I doubt you’ll have a major setback, maybe you’ll be a little uncomfortable but that’s all I would expect. I’ve forgotten my paxil dose several times but it never caused any problems for me. Bye! Inky (^_-)

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I’d quote but the beginning of this thread is gone (yes I’m on AOL)… If it helps you any, try putting your morning meds (for me it’s an SSRI and a hormone) in a container (I use the top of the Nyquil bottle…hey it’s free) and keep that by the bed. Make it a practice to leave your BOTTLE in the living room and only put your morning meds in there before you go to bed (like a routine). I’ve found I can get them in my system faster, which helps me get to sleep earlier that night, in case I just wake up early, take the meds and feel like going back to sleep instead of getting up completely. Keep a small glass of water and the cup and turn the med cup upside down when you’ve taken them. Sometimes my OCD comes in handy  This method sure beats looking at the label and counting and subtracting, blah blah….BTDT and found this helps. All the best. Miriam

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i use a pill box to keep meds straight.before i go to bed i put the next day meds in the pill box,also my husband takes heart meds.he keeps them in a box.when he takes one he turns the bottle up side down.no more guessing or mistakes .let me share something else with you.at times it is hard to swoller pills.use a straw taking pills .you can’t believe how much easier it is. hope some of this helps. good luck. fanny

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That’s good advice. What happened when you overdosed, Mary? Philip (just curious) Well Philip, I took 250 mgs instead of 150. I spent the whole day sitting on the couch wondering how I could have been so stupid. I also spent the day on the couch because every muscle in my body was vibrating and I had very little motor control. But I wasn’t depressed. How could I be with that much of an ad in my system? I pormised myself never to do it again. (I was sleepy when I took my meds that morning and couldn’t remember taking the one pill, so I took another) I went to the store the next day and bought myself a pill organizer that holds all your meds for every day of the week. Now I take the correct dose everyday while feeling like an alzheimer’s patient because at the age of 31, I can’t remember to take my meds correctly. Mary

I thought it would be somewhat like this. Overdosing on a TCA is worse…. I think in 31 years I have missed a dose twice…and the *idea* brings on panic with me (with a benzo it’s different, I notice that very soon and that’s not just psychological). Many  people need pill organizers or a similar system. We may well all  have Alzheimer’s at ASAP, if that would be the criterion ) Philip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  Well, I have been here and lurking…I try to respond privately when I feel I can help…To be honest, the only reason I haven’t been responding on the newsgroup is because I found deja.com…When I discovered all my messages, I felt my privacy was invaded a bit much…Anyway, I now have a question that needs the newsgroup and can’t be dealt with privately, so here it is… Hi Chuck, I’m sorry I can’t be of much help with Zoloft but I do have a solution for this problem.  There are 2 options. If your reader allows it (Agent does) you can have the line "x-no-archive: yes" (without quotes) added to your header. If you can’t find out how to do this, the other option is to make that same line (x-no-archive: yes) the *very first* line of your post.  I took some sleeping meds last night, and this morning I woke up late and don’t recall if I took my Zoloft in the morning (as I usually do)…I fear I have missed it…I have been doing excellent on Zoloft Ok now, you are not sure, you *fear* you’ve forgotten. I would say, don’t try to catch up the dose. AFAIK, it’s not good to ever try to catch up a forgotten AD dose. Just lleave it for what it is and take your regular dose tomorrow morning. I doubt you’ll have a major setback, maybe you’ll be a little uncomfortable but that’s all I would expect. I’ve forgotten my paxil dose several times but it never caused any problems for me. Bye! Inky (^_-)

Response:

Chuck, I’m one day late on this question, but I’ll give you some advice for the future. Keep a record of whenever you take meds. I have a calender next to my pill bottles and indicate whenever I have taken a med. I started doing this because sometimes I forget what I’ve taken, especially if it’s first thing in the morning and I’m still half asleep. I do lots of crazy stuff in the morning, like making coffee without adding the water. Or putting my shirt on backwards. Or missing the toilet when I pee. In fact, sometimes I sit down to pee. (that way there’s a better chance of hitting the target) One lady at ASAP said she didn’t know why her husband sat down in the AM to pee. She thought he was doing strange things. I didn’t say anything at the time, to keep her in suspence I suppose, or maybe just to keep her on her toes. Chip p.s. missing one day of Zoloft won’t hurt. To all –

Question:

Twice a day won’t work with Neurontin unless you are worried about seizures. It wears off! If you can’t do at least 3x a day I am afraid you may be wasting your money. On 4x a day maybe you could take less. I don’t think Wellbutrin is the AD for you. I suggest something in the Celexa line, or if you could use help getting to sleep, Remeron. Just have your pharmacist give me a call. Keith – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Do you think going higher in dosage would help?  James suggests taking it every 6 hours would help.  I have a hard enough time remembering it twice a day.  At work it is chaos at times and remembering to take the medication would be very difficult.  So far I see no adverse reactions.  I can go higher.  It is costing me 300 a month but I would pay 500 or even 1000 dollars a month if I could enjoy life on a daily basis.  It took away my high highs… now I am left with really some bad bad lows.  But I do cycle out for a few short hours… but mornings are hell.  I take the meds at noon and in the evening.  That isn’t spaced out right though.  Should take the evening dose later but the morning dose wears off.  I don’t know if raising the wellbutrin would help.  Maybe I need to ask for Lamictal.  So tired of this.  Life was so much easier years ago.

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Do you think going higher in dosage would help?  James suggests taking it every 6 hours would help.  I have a hard enough time remembering it twice a day.  At work it is chaos at times and remembering to take the medication would be very difficult.  So far I see no adverse reactions.  I can go higher.  It is costing me 300 a month but I would pay 500 or even 1000 dollars a month if I could enjoy life on a daily basis.  It took away my high highs… now I am left with really some bad bad lows.  But I do cycle out for a few short hours… but mornings are hell.  I take the meds at noon and in the evening.  That isn’t spaced out right though.  Should take the evening dose later but the morning dose wears off.  I don’t know if raising the wellbutrin would help.  Maybe I need to ask for Lamictal.  So tired of this.  Life was so much easier years ago. —   O  ooo   Cindy          O – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am on 2400mg and still cycle….I just have lower lows and lower highs. I don’t feel clearer in thinking…but compared to lithium..whew!  This is MUCH better.  Just wish it would help more with the depressions. There appears to be no known therapeutic blood serum level for gabapentin used in bipolar. Each person will need a different amount. You could go as high as your doctor would allow, but money would be a limiting factor.

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I am on 2400mg and still cycle….I just have lower lows and lower highs.  I don’t feel clearer in thinking…but compared to lithium..whew!  This is MUCH better.  Just wish it would help more with the depressions.

There appears to be no known therapeutic blood serum level for gabapentin used in bipolar. Each person will need a different amount. You could go as high as your doctor would allow, but money would be a limiting factor.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 4800mg is considered high, and the therapeutic range seems to span all dosages, at least for bipolar. Greetings everybody, I have rapid cyclings with sometimes mixed states. I never had any manic episode. I never took any mood stabilizer in my life. I’ve been taking antidepressants and anxiolytics for 10 years now with moderate results. And i lost so many jobs… So Neurontin is my first mood stabilizer. I’ve been taking Neurontin (100 mg x 4 per day) for 2 weeks now. I also take Effexor XR 150 mg per day. My mood is better. I’m not anymore angry and the anxiety is almost gone. My concentration is improved too. It’s great. I’m starting again to live after a long nightmare. However, i still have sometimes cyclings even if they are more rare and lower in intensity. What is the therapeutic range of Neurontin? I want to feel fine but to be honest i’m afraid to be *zombified* by a too much high dose of Neurontin. Suggestions? Thanks in advance. Eric

Eric when I was on this drug, which was way back when it first came out on the market.  I was one of the test people for the drug.  I took 3600mgs. So higher doseages can be tolerated for this drug.  I was on it at least 3 different times for different reasons.  I was taken off 2 times and put back on it 2 other times to make it a total of 3 times.  The other mood stabilizer I was on it with I think was either Depakote or Lithium.  I am almost quite sure it was Depakote.   Betsy

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I am on 2400mg and still cycle….I just have lower lows and lower highs.  I don’t feel clearer in thinking…but compared to lithium..whew!  This is MUCH better.  Just wish it would help more with the depressions. —   O  ooo   Cindy          O – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Neurontin has been extremely helpful to me as an anti-depressant, mood stabilizer for me recently. I am a manic depressive. I’m nearly certain that the therapeutic range is about 400 to 2500 mgs. I am taking 2000mgs or just simply 2gs. By the way, I don’t feel "zombefied". On the contrary I feel very alert and relatively up. Good luck Ephriam Greetings everybody, I have rapid cyclings with sometimes mixed states. I never had any manic episode. I never took any mood stabilizer in my life. I’ve been taking antidepressants and anxiolytics for 10 years now with moderate results. And i lost so many jobs… So Neurontin is my first mood stabilizer. I’ve been taking Neurontin (100 mg x 4 per day) for 2 weeks now. I also take Effexor XR 150 mg per day. My mood is better. I’m not anymore angry and the anxiety is almost gone. My concentration is improved too. It’s great. I’m starting again to live after a long nightmare. However, i still have sometimes cyclings even if they are more rare and lower in intensity. What is the therapeutic range of Neurontin? I want to feel fine but to be honest i’m afraid to be *zombified* by a too much high dose of Neurontin. Suggestions? Thanks in advance. Eric

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Which mood stabizer did you use along with neurontin? —   O  ooo   Cindy          O – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Greetings everybody, I have rapid cyclings with sometimes mixed states. I never had any manic episode. I never took any mood stabilizer in my life. I’ve been taking antidepressants and anxiolytics for 10 years now with moderate results. And i lost so many jobs… So Neurontin is my first mood stabilizer. I’ve been taking Neurontin (100 mg x 4 per day) for 2 weeks now. I also take Effexor XR 150 mg per day. My mood is better. I’m not anymore angry and the anxiety is almost gone. My concentration is improved too. It’s great. I’m starting again to live after a long nightmare. However, i still have sometimes cyclings even if they are more rare and lower in intensity. What is the therapeutic range of Neurontin? I want to feel fine but to be honest i’m afraid to be *zombified* by a too much high dose of Neurontin. Suggestions? You can use more than one mood stabilizer. Neurontin should be taken every six hours.  A good therapeutic dose for me was 300 mgs 4 x per day until I added another mood stabilizer.  Once I had polytherapy I was able to lower my dose of Neurontin to 600 to 900 mgs per day. Good luck to you. Julie Thanks in advance. Eric

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Do i still have to take Neurontin 4 times a day if i increase the dosage from 400 to 600 or even 800 mg? What are the side effects of Neurontin at this dosage? Thanks.

Eric: The Neurontin is excreted every six hours.  Eight if you have a slow renal excretion rate. The six hours apart is crucial if it is your only mood stabilizer.  Even if you have increased the dosage. I learned that the hard way and ended up ultra rapidly cycling till I joined the ranks of the James Milton Philosophy It had it’s drawbacks, like setting my alarm for three am just to take a pill.  I did get used to it and it was effective.  I also got tired of it and now take 2 mood stabilizers and only take Neurontin 2x per day. Good Luck! Julie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Eric

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4800mg is considered high, and the therapeutic range seems to span all dosages, at least for bipolar. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Greetings everybody, I have rapid cyclings with sometimes mixed states. I never had any manic episode. I never took any mood stabilizer in my life. I’ve been taking antidepressants and anxiolytics for 10 years now with moderate results. And i lost so many jobs… So Neurontin is my first mood stabilizer. I’ve been taking Neurontin (100 mg x 4 per day) for 2 weeks now. I also take Effexor XR 150 mg per day. My mood is better. I’m not anymore angry and the anxiety is almost gone. My concentration is improved too. It’s great. I’m starting again to live after a long nightmare. However, i still have sometimes cyclings even if they are more rare and lower in intensity. What is the therapeutic range of Neurontin? I want to feel fine but to be honest i’m afraid to be *zombified* by a too much high dose of Neurontin. Suggestions? Thanks in advance. Eric

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Greetings everybody, I have rapid cyclings with sometimes mixed states. I never had any manic episode. I never took any mood stabilizer in my life. I’ve been taking antidepressants and anxiolytics for 10 years now with moderate results. And i lost so many jobs… So Neurontin is my first mood stabilizer. I’ve been taking Neurontin (100 mg x 4 per day) for 2 weeks now. I also take Effexor XR 150 mg per day. My mood is better. I’m not anymore angry and the anxiety is almost gone. My concentration is improved too. It’s great. I’m starting again to live after a long nightmare. However, i still have sometimes cyclings even if they are more rare and lower in intensity. What is the therapeutic range of Neurontin? I want to feel fine but to be honest i’m afraid to be *zombified* by a too much high dose of Neurontin. Suggestions?

You can use more than one mood stabilizer. Neurontin should be taken every six hours.  A good therapeutic dose for me was 300 mgs 4 x per day until I added another mood stabilizer.  Once I had polytherapy I was able to lower my dose of Neurontin to 600 to 900 mgs per day. Good luck to you. Julie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks in advance. Eric

Response:

Neurontin has been extremely helpful to me as an anti-depressant, mood stabilizer for me recently. I am a manic depressive. I’m nearly certain that the therapeutic range is about 400 to 2500 mgs. I am taking 2000mgs or just simply 2gs. By the way, I don’t feel "zombefied". On the contrary I feel very alert and relatively up. Good luck Ephriam

Do i still have to take Neurontin 4 times a day if i increase the dosage from 400 to 600 or even 800 mg? What are the side effects of Neurontin at this dosage? Thanks. Eric

Response:

Greetings everybody, I have rapid cyclings with sometimes mixed states. I never had any manic episode. I never took any mood stabilizer in my life. I’ve been taking antidepressants and anxiolytics for 10 years now with moderate results. And i lost so many jobs… So Neurontin is my first mood stabilizer. I’ve been taking Neurontin (100 mg x 4 per day) for 2 weeks now. I also take Effexor XR 150 mg per day. My mood is better. I’m not anymore angry and the anxiety is almost gone. My concentration is improved too. It’s great. I’m starting again to live after a long nightmare. However, i still have sometimes cyclings even if they are more rare and lower in intensity. What is the therapeutic range of Neurontin? I want to feel fine but to be honest i’m afraid to be *zombified* by a too much high dose of Neurontin. Suggestions? Thanks in advance. Eric

Response:

Neurontin has been extremely helpful to me as an anti-depressant, mood stabilizer for me recently. I am a manic depressive. I’m nearly certain that the therapeutic range is about 400 to 2500 mgs. I am taking 2000mgs or just simply 2gs. By the way, I don’t feel "zombefied". On the contrary I feel very alert and relatively up. Good luck Ephriam – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Greetings everybody, I have rapid cyclings with sometimes mixed states. I never had any manic episode. I never took any mood stabilizer in my life. I’ve been taking antidepressants and anxiolytics for 10 years now with moderate results. And i lost so many jobs… So Neurontin is my first mood stabilizer. I’ve been taking Neurontin (100 mg x 4 per day) for 2 weeks now. I also take Effexor XR 150 mg per day. My mood is better. I’m not anymore angry and the anxiety is almost gone. My concentration is improved too. It’s great. I’m starting again to live after a long nightmare. However, i still have sometimes cyclings even if they are more rare and lower in intensity. What is the therapeutic range of Neurontin? I want to feel fine but to be honest i’m afraid to be *zombified* by a too much high dose of Neurontin. Suggestions? Thanks in advance. Eric

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Question:

I have just been prescribed  venlafaxine for anxiety.  Could anybody tell me anything about this drug i.e. positive and negative results. Thank you. Tracy

Basically it’s a TCA. It may well work. But other TCA’s are better researched and I would never try velafaxine as a first choice med. It it should be a TCA- which may well work and can be combined with a benzo – I’d opt for imipramine first (the mother of all TCA’s ) But of course YMMV. Philip

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My understanding is that effexor is one of the ‘newer’ antidepressants that inhibits the reuptake of serotonin – like the the ssri’s [paxil zoloft] but also controls levels of noradrenaline [as the old TCAs do]. Effexor is thought to be very ‘effective’ .. but also a bit prone to producing side-effects — high blood pressure, nausea, weight -loss, sexual dysfunction etc — very similar really to the SSRIs Hope this helps Chris

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I have just been prescribed  venlafaxine for anxiety.  Could anybody tell me anything about this drug i.e. positive and negative results.   Thank you. Tracy

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Did not work for me at all.  The side effects were terrible.  But remember that everybody is different and it may work for you. JP – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have just been prescribed  venlafaxine for anxiety.  Could anybody tell me anything about this drug i.e. positive and negative results. Thank you. Tracy

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