Question:

says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A patent does not last 20 or 30 years.  It is something like 7 or 11 years, (I don’t remember exactly). 20 years from the date it was filed with the patent office.  There are a few ways to extend them to a certain extent, if the patent office was really slow, or it took forever to get FDA approval. I thought so. Now, what if they "enhance" the design of the originally patented technology. Does the 20-year clock start over? I’m asking because it sounds like that’s what ALZA did for Concerta. They took their original design and added a coating of med on the outside so that it would release an initial dose of medication.

In that case I suspect that the patent is on the coating technology. — — –John Reply to jclarke at eye bee em dot net

Response:

The Concerta web page says that if you take 15 mg Methylphenidate 2x/day or 15 mg Methylphenidate 3x/day or 60 mg Methylphenidate-SR, then you should take  54 mg of Concerta every morning by taking a 36 mg and an 18 mg at the same time. Daily dosage above 54 mg is not recommended. The URL is http://www.concerta.net/info.html Katswan

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, I am going to my Doctor tomorrow, and he has expressed interest in trying Concerta. I have a question on this, however. I am an adult, 31 years old. I have been on 20mg (non-SR) Ritalin 3 times a day (60 mg total per day) for the past 5 years. Considering this, what dosage of Concerta should I be on? The 60 mg per day worked fine for me, but I dont see how that dose (per day) can be obtained from the size tablets being offered right now for Concerta (only 18mg or 36mg). I am at a total loss as to why there is no good indicators of what an adult should be taking for Concerta, if (s)he is coming from a regular release Ritalin dosage of 60mg per day? Taking 2 x 36mg. Concerta might be considered to be too high of a dose. There is a new 54mg coming out (I am wondering if it is out yet… possibly). But would this be enough for me? Also, I can find no literature that talks about how much (in mg) is released on the outside-coating ‘immediate release’ of Concerta tabs, and then, how much is released in each remaining layer (2 more layers), and at what time are they released? I went to Concerta.net, but cannot find any data that answers these questions. Can anyone provide some answers to these questions? Thanks. Chris

Response:

I just had a thought, they have generic Ritalin SR, do they have it yet for Concerta? <Christopher wrote No, it is brand new, less than one year old. (Curious again) How long does it take for a generic to be approved and shipping? I think only generics are approved for the type of insurance my daughter has, unless there is a good reason she has to take a brand name medication.

When a new med is developed, that company that developed it has exclusive rights to market it, as with any patented invention. After, I think, 20 or 30 years or so, they lose the exclusivity and other products can copy their design/formula. They can also "lease" the right to use the patented formula/design during their exclusive rights period. ALZA’s web site says that their OROS delivery system has been used for 20 years, but that Concerta uses an enhanced OROS system, so the clock may have restarted ticking, it may be like a new patent. Most health/medical insurance policies push generics (list of covered meds). When my daughter was on Ritalin, I had to make certain the doctor put "Brand name medically necessary" on every prescription, or our previous insurance company would only pay for the generic, since it was available. To get our new insurance company to pay for Concerta, we had to jump through some hoops. The doctor had to write a letter (for which I had to provide him information since we’re new to the practice), detailing all the meds daughter has been on, why they weren’t effective or were problematic, and why we think Concerta will be different. Since daughter’s tried everything, they approved our request and are paying for Concerta. They did not approve it for son, however, as he hasn’t tried Ritalin-SR (much cheaper than Concerta and theoretically similar). I won’t put him on Ritalin-SR, however, because I think the dose is too high for him. When he was on Ritalin, he took 5mg 3x/day. He currently takes 5mg Adderall 2x/day. No way do these dosages compare to 20 mg R-SR, which would be expected to dump 20mg of meds into his system in 4 hours less than he got 15mg of meds (and twice as much meds as he’s taking now). He doesn’t need more med, he needs it spread over a longer day. So I paid for his first month’s Rx for Concerta (nearly $70). Now that we know it’s working well for him, the doctor will write another letter requesting approval. Katswan

Response:

<part of reply snipped They did not approve it for son, however, as he hasn’t tried Ritalin-SR (much cheaper than Concerta and theoretically similar). I won’t put him on Ritalin-SR, however, because I think the dose is too high for him. When he was on Ritalin, he took 5mg 3x/day. He currently takes 5mg Adderall 2x/day. No way do these dosages compare to 20 mg R-SR, which would be expected to dump 20mg of meds into his system in 4 hours less than he got 15mg of meds (and twice as much meds as he’s taking now). He doesn’t need more med, he needs it spread over a longer day. So I paid for his first month’s Rx for Concerta (nearly $70). Now that we know it’s working well for him, the doctor will write another letter requesting approval. Katswan

Thanks for the reply. It is something for me to think about.        Norma   <Sigline space for rent

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just had a thought, they have generic Ritalin SR, do they have it yet for Concerta? <Christopher wrote No, it is brand new, less than one year old. (Curious again) How long does it take for a generic to be approved and shipping? I think only generics are approved for the type of insurance my daughter has, unless there is a good reason she has to take a brand name medication. When a new med is developed, that company that developed it has exclusive rights to market it, as with any patented invention. After, I think, 20 or 30 years or so, they lose the exclusivity and other products can copy their design/formula.

A patent does not last 20 or 30 years.  It is something like 7 or 11 years, (I don’t remember exactly). Copyrights last longer than patents and can be renewed.  Copyrights don’t cover the same thing; they protect expressions of ideas, like books or pictures. Patents give companies (or people) the exclusive right to construct or sell or use a process or principle of operation. However, to get copyright protection for a period, you must disclose exactly how to do it, and anyone can get copies from the patent office after it has expired. Alternatively, companies can just keep things secret.  These are trade secrets, but if someone else comes up with the same idea, the company has nothing they can legally do about it. -Chris Eliot

Response:

says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just had a thought, they have generic Ritalin SR, do they have it yet for Concerta? <Christopher wrote No, it is brand new, less than one year old. (Curious again) How long does it take for a generic to be approved and shipping? I think only generics are approved for the type of insurance my daughter has, unless there is a good reason she has to take a brand name medication. When a new med is developed, that company that developed it has exclusive rights to market it, as with any patented invention. After, I think, 20 or 30 years or so, they lose the exclusivity and other products can copy their design/formula. A patent does not last 20 or 30 years.  It is something like 7 or 11 years, (I don’t remember exactly). Copyrights last longer than patents and can be renewed.  Copyrights don’t cover the same thing; they protect expressions of ideas, like books or pictures. Patents give companies (or people) the exclusive right to construct or sell or use a process or principle of operation. However, to get copyright protection for a period, you must disclose exactly how to do it, and anyone can get copies from the patent office after it has expired.

Well, sorta.  The "game", I am told by folks who have cause to know such things, is to tell enough to get the patent but not enough that someone can reproduce the technology.  Georgia Tech has a course in which you are given a patent and required to design a working device based on that patent.  It very quickly becomes evident how much information is _not_ included in the patent.  Of course this assumes that the device described by the patent will actually work.  One engineer I knew collected whacky patents for stuff that couldn’t possibly work–had his office wallpapered with them. Alternatively, companies can just keep things secret.  These are trade secrets, but if someone else comes up with the same idea, the company has nothing they can legally do about it. -Chris Eliot

– — –John Reply to jclarke at eye bee em dot net

Response:

We switched daughter back to Adderall this morning largely based on what daughter was telling us. It just wasn’t working for her. Now we her taking 30 long however I wonder if she can take another 20 mg dose around 2PM? Is there an Adderall website?? Is anyone taking Adderall this way, three doses a day? Last time we talked to her doctor we found that she was splitting her afternoon dose by taking 10 mg at lunch plus 10 mg later in the afternoon which the the lower split dose. This was one of the reasons he suggested trying Concerta

Response:

A patent does not last 20 or 30 years.  It is something like 7 or 11 years, (I don’t remember exactly).

20 years from the date it was filed with the patent office.  There are a few ways to extend them to a certain extent, if the patent office was really slow, or it took forever to get FDA approval.

Response:

A patent does not last 20 or 30 years.  It is something like 7 or 11 years, (I don’t remember exactly). 20 years from the date it was filed with the patent office.  There are a few ways to extend them to a certain extent, if the patent office was really slow, or it took forever to get FDA approval.

Really?? OK, I didn’t think it was so long.

Response:

A patent does not last 20 or 30 years.  It is something like 7 or 11 years, (I don’t remember exactly). 20 years from the date it was filed with the patent office.  There are a few ways to extend them to a certain extent, if the patent office was really slow, or it took forever to get FDA approval.

I thought so. Now, what if they "enhance" the design of the originally patented technology. Does the 20-year clock start over? I’m asking because it sounds like that’s what ALZA did for Concerta. They took their original design and added a coating of med on the outside so that it would release an initial dose of medication. Katswan

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone know of a free online PDR reference for Concerta and Adderall? We are at 56 mg/day on a 14yr old and wonder if we have the option of increasing or possibly we may end up going back to the Adderall and try to figure out a better way of managing its level As a medic, I would recommend talking to her Dr first. PDR’s should be available at most libraries. While my USP DI is a bit old (1996, they ain’t cheap), the usual pediatric dose for 6 years of age and older for Adderall, states that the dose does not usually exceed 40 mg daily. Concerta is not listed, as it is newer than my book. I saw a company chart comparing 18 mg concerta with 5 mg Ritalin taken three times a day. My guess is that there is some loss due to the special delivery capsule, and that otherwise you can do very rough dosing estimates by comparing 18 mg concerta to 15 mg Ritalin spread out over a day.  This is only my guess, though; no one who understands about it has told me anything like this.

That’s how our pediatrician explained it to us. — Light, Love, & Laughter, Kitten, Goddess of Mischief "Thousands of years ago, cats were worshipped as gods. Cats have never forgotten this." – Anonymous "Just for today, do not worry;  Just for today, do not anger; Earn your living honestly; Honor your parents, teachers and elders; Show gratitude for every living thing."- Dr. Mikao Usui

Response:

As a medic, I would recommend talking to her Dr first. PDR’s should be available at most libraries.

Concerta does not appear in our Libraries 2000 PDR and of course although I have to talk to her psychiatrist before we increase (ie to get a script) I was wondering if increasing the dose was an option. I don’t think she gets the kick (maybe poor choice of words) that she got from the Adderall. The Concerta is probably much slower and more gradual delivery and change in the blood level.

Response:

I saw a company chart comparing 18 mg concerta with 5 mg Ritalin taken three times a day. My guess is that there is some loss due to the special delivery capsule, and that otherwise you can do very rough dosing estimates by comparing 18 mg concerta to 15 mg Ritalin spread out over a day.  This is only my guess, though; no one who understands about it has told me anything like this. That’s how our pediatrician explained it to us.

I just had a thought, they have generic Ritalin SR, do they have it yet for Concerta?  Curious,            Norma        Norma   <Sigline space for rent

Response:

I got confused about the attributions here.  Sorry if I’m misquoting. I saw a company chart comparing 18 mg concerta with 5 mg Ritalin taken three times a day. My guess is that there is some loss due to the special delivery capsule, and that otherwise you can do very rough dosing estimates by comparing 18 mg concerta to 15 mg Ritalin spread out over a day.  This is only my guess, though; no one who understands about it has told me anything like this.

That’s how we’ve switched dosages here. Son went from 5mg Ritalin 3x/day to 5mg Adderall 2x/day (but really needing a 3rd dose too late to give it to him) to 18mg Concerta 1x/day. Daughter went from 20mg Ritalin-SR in the AM plus 10mg Ritalin regular in the PM (and still never being stable in the meds’ effects) to 10mg Adderall 2x/day (but really needing a third dose too late to give it to her) to 36mg Concerta 1x/day. That’s how our pediatrician explained it to us.

I just had a thought, they have generic Ritalin SR, do they have it yet for Concerta?

Well, the med in Concerta is methylphenidate HCl (a form of Ritalin), so it’s already a generic. The delivery system in the body is what is unique and what makes it so expensive. It’s called OROS and was developed by ALZA. It’s been used to deliver other medications for about 20 years, although it’s been enhanced for Concerta to give an intial "shot" of medication. I’m sure ALZA with hold on to the rights/patents for as long as they can. Here’s ALZA’s Concerta web site URL: http://www.concerta.net/index.htm Katswan

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I saw a company chart comparing 18 mg concerta with 5 mg Ritalin taken three times a day. My guess is that there is some loss due to the special delivery capsule, and that otherwise you can do very rough dosing estimates by comparing 18 mg concerta to 15 mg Ritalin spread out over a day.  This is only my guess, though; no one who understands about it has told me anything like this. That’s how our pediatrician explained it to us. I just had a thought, they have generic Ritalin SR, do they have it yet for Concerta?

No, it is brand new, less than one year old. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  Curious,            Norma        Norma   <Sigline space for rent

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just had a thought, they have generic Ritalin SR, do they have it yet for Concerta? <Christopher wrote No, it is brand new, less than one year old. (Curious again) How long does it take for a generic to be approved and shipping? I think only generics are approved for the type of insurance my daughter has, unless there is a good reason she has to take a brand name medication.

The patents have to expire first, and that takes a number of years. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –        Norma   <Sigline space for rent

Response:

Hello, I am going to my Doctor tomorrow, and he has expressed interest in trying Concerta. I have a question on this, however. I am an adult, 31 years old. I have been on 20mg (non-SR) Ritalin 3 times a day (60 mg total per day) for the past 5 years. Considering this, what dosage of Concerta should I be on? The 60 mg per day worked fine for me, but I dont see how that dose (per day) can be obtained from the size tablets being offered right now for Concerta (only 18mg or 36mg). I am at a total loss as to why there is no good indicators of what an adult should be taking for Concerta, if (s)he is coming from a regular release Ritalin dosage of 60mg per day? Taking 2 x 36mg. Concerta might be considered to be too high of a dose. There is a new 54mg coming out (I am wondering if it is out yet… possibly). But would this be enough for me? Also, I can find no literature that talks about how much (in mg) is released on the outside-coating ‘immediate release’ of Concerta tabs, and then, how much is released in each remaining layer (2 more layers), and at what time are they released? I went to Concerta.net, but cannot find any data that answers these questions. Can anyone provide some answers to these questions? Thanks. Chris

Response:

I am going to my Doctor tomorrow, and he has expressed interest in trying Concerta. I have a question on this, however. I am an adult, 31 years old. I have been on 20mg (non-CR) Ritalin 3 times a day (60 mg total per day) for the past 5 years. What dosage of Concerta should I be on? The 60 mg per day worked fine for me, but I dont see how that dose (per day) can be obtained from the size tablets being offered right now for Concerta (18 or 36mg).

From what our pediatrician told us about the conversion from Ritalin to Concerta, you would need 2 36mg caplets in the morning to receive the equivalent of your current 60mg/day of Ritalin.  (18mg Concerta = 15mg {3 5mg doses} Ritalin) I am at a total loss as to why there is no good indicators of what an adult should be taking for Concerta, if (s)he is coming from a regular release Ritalin dosage of 60mg per day? Taking 2 36mg. Concerta might be considered to be too high of a dose. There is a new 54mg coming out (maybe out now, possibly). But would this be enough?

With the conversion above, I don’t see how 2 36mg would be considered too high.  It’s an equivalent dosage to what you are currently taking. Also, I can find no literature that talks about how much (in mg) is released on the outside coating immediate release of Concerta tabs, and then, how much is released in each remaining layer (2 more layers), and at what time are they released? I went to Concerta.net, but cannot find any of this data. Can anyone provide some info on this?

I’ve a pdf on Concerta.  I’m not sure if it has the info you’re looking for, but if you’d like me to email it to you, let me know. — Light, Love, & Laughter, Kitten, Goddess of Mischief "Thousands of years ago, cats were worshipped as gods. Cats have never forgotten this." – Anonymous "Just for today, do not worry;  Just for today, do not anger; Earn your living honestly; Honor your parents, teachers and elders; Show gratitude for every living thing."- Dr. Mikao Usui

Response:

I just had a thought, they have generic Ritalin SR, do they have it yet for Concerta?

<Christopher wrote No, it is brand new, less than one year old.

(Curious again) How long does it take for a generic to be approved and shipping? I think only generics are approved for the type of insurance my daughter has, unless there is a good reason she has to take a brand name medication.        Norma   <Sigline space for rent

Response:

I am going to my Doctor tomorrow, and he has expressed interest in trying Concerta. I have a question on this, however. I am an adult, 31 years old. I have been on 20mg (non-CR) Ritalin 3 times a day (60 mg total per day) for the past 5 years. What dosage of Concerta should I be on? The 60 mg per day worked fine for me, but I dont see how that dose (per day) can be obtained from the size tablets being offered right now for Concerta (18 or 36mg). I am at a total loss as to why there is no good indicators of what an adult should be taking for Concerta, if (s)he is coming from a regular release Ritalin dosage of 60mg per day? Taking 2 36mg. Concerta might be considered to be too high of a dose. There is a new 54mg coming out (maybe out now, possibly). But would this be enough? Also, I can find no literature that talks about how much (in mg) is released on the outside coating immediate release of Concerta tabs, and then, how much is released in each remaining layer (2 more layers), and at what time are they released? I went to Concerta.net, but cannot find any of this data. Can anyone provide some info on this? Thanks. Chris

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just had a thought, they have generic Ritalin SR, do they have it yet for Concerta? Well, the med in Concerta is methylphenidate HCl (a form of Ritalin), so it’s already a generic. The delivery system in the body is what is unique and what makes it so expensive. It’s called OROS and was developed by ALZA. It’s been used to deliver other medications for about 20 years, although it’s been enhanced for Concerta to give an intial "shot" of medication. I’m sure ALZA with hold on to the rights/patents for as long as they can. Here’s ALZA’s Concerta web site URL: http://www.concerta.net/index.htm Katswan

Thanks for the info.        Norma   <Sigline space for rent

Response:

Anyone know of a free online PDR reference for Concerta and Adderall? We are at 56 mg/day on a 14yr old and wonder if we have the option of increasing or possibly we may end up going back to the Adderall and try to figure out a better way of managing its level

Response:

Anyone know of a free online PDR reference for Concerta and Adderall? We are at 56 mg/day on a 14yr old and wonder if we have the option of increasing or possibly we may end up going back to the Adderall and try to figure out a better way of managing its level

Have you talked to her doctor?   Nessa — Life’s a dance. You learn as you go. Sometimes you lead, sometimes you follow Don’t worry ’bout what you don’t know, life’s a dance you learn as you go!

Response:

Anyone know of a free online PDR reference for Concerta and Adderall? We are at 56 mg/day on a 14yr old and wonder if we have the option of increasing or possibly we may end up going back to the Adderall and try to figure out a better way of managing its level

As a medic, I would recommend talking to her Dr first. PDR’s should be available at most libraries. While my USP DI is a bit old (1996, they ain’t cheap), the usual pediatric dose for 6 years of age and older for Adderall, states that the dose does not usually exceed 40 mg daily. Concerta is not listed, as it is newer than my book. The dosage info for Adderal is backed by the PDR info at: http://www.healthsquare.com/drugmain.htm You should also be able to find the info on Concerta there. Chewy — Kitten’s Main Squeeze We live in a technological society that creates many illusions of reality…it’s the most irresponsible behaving entity that ever lived on this planet.  This civilization is not about responsibility, it’s about guilt, sin, blame and aggressive bad behavior.  That is the shadow world… The real world is about fulfilling our responsibility to life. — John Trudell

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone know of a free online PDR reference for Concerta and Adderall? We are at 56 mg/day on a 14yr old and wonder if we have the option of increasing or possibly we may end up going back to the Adderall and try to figure out a better way of managing its level As a medic, I would recommend talking to her Dr first. PDR’s should be available at most libraries. While my USP DI is a bit old (1996, they ain’t cheap), the usual pediatric dose for 6 years of age and older for Adderall, states that the dose does not usually exceed 40 mg daily. Concerta is not listed, as it is newer than my book.

I saw a company chart comparing 18 mg concerta with 5 mg Ritalin taken three times a day. My guess is that there is some loss due to the special delivery capsule, and that otherwise you can do very rough dosing estimates by comparing 18 mg concerta to 15 mg Ritalin spread out over a day.  This is only my guess, though; no one who understands about it has told me anything like this. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The dosage info for Adderal is backed by the PDR info at: http://www.healthsquare.com/drugmain.htm You should also be able to find the info on Concerta there. Chewy — Kitten’s Main Squeeze We live in a technological society that creates many illusions of reality…it’s the most irresponsible behaving entity that ever lived on this planet.  This civilization is not about responsibility, it’s about guilt, sin, blame and aggressive bad behavior.  That is the shadow world… The real world is about fulfilling our responsibility to life. — John Trudell

Response:

Question:

This week I was diagnosed with Adult ADHD.  While this is not entirely a surprise and I am glad I’m not Bipolar instead, I am still pretty much freaking out about what this means and what the future holds, etc.  I am also worried about how the hell I will afford a psychiatrist, a psychotherapist, and prescription meds given that I am one of the many million of Americans without medical insurance.  I am about to finish grad school, assuming I don’t flunk out. I want to learn as much as possible about the disorder, treatment options, and related relationship issues.  Anecdotes about your own experiences and types of Adult ADD/ADHD would be helpful, as would insights into how you all deal with romantic relationships.  I’m a dyke, currently single, and I wonder what I can learn while I am still single that will help me navigate a successful relationship in the future – assuming I don’t "scare the horses" with my diagnosis. What were you *like" before your diagnosis, and then after treatment began?  Can you give me some specific behavioral examples that illustrate your experiences? Is it possible to manage ADHD without meds? Which meds work – and how? Will I magically be come a more productive and focused person on meds, less prone to anger and irritability, more capable of holding a rewarding job, and more calm/less distracted?  If I go on meds, will my sex drive suffer, will I gain weight, or will I have to deal with other unpleasant side effects? I have already been on and have come off Paxil, Zoloft, Effexor and Topamax, which were prescribed for panic disorder – all of which made me either suicidal, catatonic, seriously deperssed, or sexually numb.  I don’t want to go through that again! What experiences do you have of dealing with co-morbid conditions such as panic disorder, anxiety, and depression. One last thing – I am probably the only 34 year-old American who does not drive and never has.  I suspect that my fear of driving may have something to do with being ADHD, but I don’t know.  It could also be a phobia – or simply related to my panic disorder, but basically I am scared shitless of either killing myself or someone else if I get behind the wheel of a car.  I find it difficult to integrate looking around me, figuring out which road I need to turn into, figuring out which lane to be in, watching for small children or red lights, or obstacles, and signalling appropriately, as well as actually operating the machinery.  Has anyone ever heard of this sort of problem, or experienced something similar? Now that I live in California, I really need to get over it and get a license and a car, because SD Transit is killing my social life! Your input would be greatly appreciated. Vik San Diego, CA

Response:

This week I was diagnosed with Adult ADHD.  While this is not entirely

a surprise and I am glad I’m not Bipolar instead, I am still pretty much freaking out about what this means and what the future holds, etc.  I am also worried about how the hell I will afford a psychiatrist, a psychotherapist, and prescription meds given that I am one of the many million of Americans without medical insurance.  I am about to finish grad school, assuming I don’t flunk out. Whoa… hold on here… Just remember–you didn’t just "get" ADHD–you just got "diagnosed"–this should be a good thing–not something to freak you out.  The key is to realize that you have obviously developed some coping mechanisms since you have made it to grad school–the thing is, some of them are helpful and some are harmful.  You will be able to figure which are which as you educate yourself on the dis-ease that you have always had.   As for not having medical insurance–shame on you–but BOY do I understand!! (I too am a poor perpetual student–veterinary resident–so a little pay, but not quiet minmum wage when you work it out–thank goodness I get medical insurance through the state as I work at a university). There are programs through the drug companies to provide medication at a reduced or free rate to qualified individuals.  Ask the Dr. who diagnosed you to use "samples" when trying a new drug so you don’t spend money on meds that aren’t going to work for you. <<I want to learn as much as possible about the disorder, treatment options, and related relationship issues.  Anecdotes about your own experiences and types of Adult ADD/ADHD would be helpful, as would insights into how you all deal with romantic relationships.  I’m a dyke, currently single, and I wonder what I can learn while I am still single that will help me navigate a successful relationship in the future – assuming I don’t "scare the horses" with my diagnosis. This entire forum is a good place for anecdotes–but remember that everyone’s experiences will be different–although I bet you will recognize yourself in many of them! <<What were you *like" before your diagnosis, and then after treatment began?  Can you give me some specific behavioral examples that illustrate your experiences? I was diagnosed as a 7 year old, but through structure and activity I didn’t need meds until I was "on my own" and having more responsibilities without any "love-ingly nagging" parents to help me organize my time.  But some of my symptoms: –the small child lying in the middle of the grocery store aisle kicking and screaming –severe seperation anxiety–camp was a HUGE ordeal–ended up loving it in the end –Very creative ("gifted"), but insisted on doing things MY way –"hyper-emotional" "hyper-mature" –Would rather hang out with just a few friends than a big group (easily overstimulated) –On the go –Happiest "doing" rather than watching (ie–interrupting, 18 projects going on at once, very active in sports) –Impulse spending –Moody–especially PMS –oh yea–had anxiety issues that led to skin picking Since treatment: Straterra 80mg/Effexor 150 +37.5 during PMS/Buspar 20-30mg) –Realize when i am procrastinating (See "Motivation" thread on the forum –Realize when I am interrupting–unless it is something I am really excited about–then usually realize after the fact–oops! –More rational about my emotions, realize when I am heading toward a HULK episode–can usually nip it in the bud–not always… –Activity level still high –skin picking less–again–realize it, but don’t always choose to stop it. –Still moody after big changes in activity (ie–semi depressed after a big project is done…) Basically with meds i can monitor my behavior better–doesn’t always mean I change it as habits die hard! <<Is it possible to manage ADHD without meds? Which meds work – and how? Will I magically be come a more productive and focused person on meds,less prone to anger and irritability, more capable of holding a rewarding job, and more calm/less distracted?  If I go on meds, will my sex drive suffer, will I gain weight, or will I have to deal with other unpleasant side effects? I have already been on and have come off Paxil, Zoloft, Effexor and Topamax, which were prescribed for panic disorder – all of which made me either suicidal, catatonic, seriously deperssed, or sexually numb.  I don’t want to go through that again! I am less prone to irritability and anger for sure–probably becasue I realize when i am "overstimulated" and remove myself from the situation. I was hopeing to become magically more productive, etc.  BUT–not so…. I think the meds make me more "aware" so I can choose to change my behavior–I recommend at least a couple of sessions of therapy to recomment tricks to change your behavior. I am lucky and have had no big side effects with the meds.  The dr. has avoided true stimulants becasue of the skin picking issue (anxiety related).  I have had night sweats and that is about it. <<What experiences do you have of dealing with co-morbid conditions such as panic disorder, anxiety, and depression. All very common with ADHD.  Usually treating ADHD (if that is the underlying cause) diminishes the others to some degree. <<One last thing – I am probably the only 34 year-old American who does not drive and never has.  I suspect that my fear of driving may have something to do with being ADHD, but I don’t know.  It could also be a phobia – or simply related to my panic disorder, but basically I am scared shitless of either killing myself or someone else if I get behind the wheel of a car.  I find it difficult to integrate looking around me, figuring out which road I need to turn into, figuring out which lane to be in, watching for small children or red lights, or obstacles, and signalling appropriately, as well as actually operating the machinery.  Has anyone ever heard of this sort of problem, or experienced something similar? Now that I live in California, I really need to get over it and get a license and a car, because SD Transit is killing my social life! I think this is probably a learned behavior by now, so treating the ADHD may help you some, but overcoming your fear will take more than meds.  I reccomend finding a calm, supportive friend to help you start driving in a parking lot where you don’t have so many distractions. <<Your input would be greatly appreciated. Good luck!  Hang in there! RV

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This week I was diagnosed with Adult ADHD.  While this is not entirely a surprise and I am glad I’m not Bipolar instead, I am still pretty much freaking out about what this means and what the future holds, etc.  I am also worried about how the hell I will afford a psychiatrist, a psychotherapist, and prescription meds given that I am one of the many million of Americans without medical insurance.  I am about to finish grad school, assuming I don’t flunk out. I want to learn as much as possible about the disorder, treatment options, and related relationship issues.  Anecdotes about your own experiences and types of Adult ADD/ADHD would be helpful, as would insights into how you all deal with romantic relationships.  I’m a dyke, currently single, and I wonder what I can learn while I am still single that will help me navigate a successful relationship in the future – assuming I don’t "scare the horses" with my diagnosis. What were you *like" before your diagnosis, and then after treatment began?  Can you give me some specific behavioral examples that illustrate your experiences? Is it possible to manage ADHD without meds? Which meds work – and how? Will I magically be come a more productive and focused person on meds, less prone to anger and irritability, more capable of holding a rewarding job, and more calm/less distracted?  If I go on meds, will my sex drive suffer, will I gain weight, or will I have to deal with other unpleasant side effects? I have already been on and have come off Paxil, Zoloft, Effexor and Topamax, which were prescribed for panic disorder – all of which made me either suicidal, catatonic, seriously deperssed, or sexually numb.  I don’t want to go through that again! What experiences do you have of dealing with co-morbid conditions such as panic disorder, anxiety, and depression. One last thing – I am probably the only 34 year-old American who does not drive and never has.  I suspect that my fear of driving may have something to do with being ADHD, but I don’t know.  It could also be a phobia – or simply related to my panic disorder, but basically I am scared shitless of either killing myself or someone else if I get behind the wheel of a car.  I find it difficult to integrate looking around me, figuring out which road I need to turn into, figuring out which lane to be in, watching for small children or red lights, or obstacles, and signalling appropriately, as well as actually operating the machinery.  Has anyone ever heard of this sort of problem, or experienced something similar? Now that I live in California, I really need to get over it and get a license and a car, because SD Transit is killing my social life! Your input would be greatly appreciated. Vik San Diego, CA

Vik <Big Preface No-one here that Ive seen will give you medical advice nor should they. Opinions – at least from me are just that – only opinions. Everyone here seems different but you will be able to identlify The people here are nice </Big Preface I am also newly diagnosed and kinda get the freaking bit but for different reasons. To address the issues I think your looking at re freaking…. I look at this slightly differently. To me ADD has upsides that I havent seen mentioned here. Having said that Im mildly ADD and havent been as obviously hammered as some. Statistically your likely to have an above average IQ. This is a good thing. The ability to hyperfocus is a good thing (if/when you can access it) particularly in conjunction with the IQ thing.If youre interested you can keep many things going at once – and on it goes. For me it aint all bad. I see it a little bit like being colour blind but making up for that by being able to see in the dark. Unfortuneatly the world operates in colour which is where I come unstuck. Im on Dex which basically allows me to see enough colour that I can work with people better. From what Ive seen there are two distinct groups here. Those that have the "H" and those who dont. Im one of the latter. Im probably Hypoactive not Hyper. I tend to have extended vague-outs. Cant comment to much on cost but for me Dex costs AU$23.00/month Dealing with people for me has been *so* much easier for a variety of reasons. All those little things that used to give me the shits just dont any more. Im *much* more patient. I dont interrupt others while theyre talking anywhere near as much as I used to so people dont get as pissed of at me. FTR this absolutely isnt a doped up / drugged patience,its a Im more alert but can deal with it thing. People smile at you in the morning and you actually notice and smile back. Dont know why youd "scare the horses". If you were diabetic would you feel the need to announce it at first meeting? Colour blind, had a heart condition ? I wouldnt/dont tell anyone that doesnt need to know. If you have someone who is getting close to you you might want to prep them with a "how to deal with me" talk but til them its no-ones business but yours. Dex makes me more focused but along with the procrastination I have to work on it. Meds arent,for me, a "cure". The effect is very much like the interrupting thing. I still start to interrupt at the moment but catch myself with my mouth open – I then have the choice as to what to do. If I find a moth Im far more likely to get distracted – realise Ive been distracted and get back to what I was doing. If Im procrastinating Dex lowers the hill I have to climb. The hill is still there but much smaller. Dex,as I understand it,typically reduces appetite. This has been the case with me but Ive always had to schedul meals and make sure I ate them – skinny guy lightening metabolism . One flash and its ash. My Doc here in Australia said that Ritalin is typically given to kids and Dex to adults – at least for the first prescription for just this reason (amongst others). In terms of holding a job Im statistically in the highest earning 10% in the country. I got it without meds and being self taught in my field and I enjoy what I do. Sounds like I make a fortune but have a look at the stats from the US which Im sure would be similar and Im sure youll be surprise how low that number is. I was. BTW – normally Id find this bit *really* tacky. I hate talking about incomes but it does prove you can function and hold down a good job. Re sex drive Some of the meds have the unfortunate side effect with guys of increasing desire but decreasing ability – not sure how that would work with a lady So….there you go …..my two cents worth Rod

Response:

As for not having medical insurance–shame on you–but BOY do I understand!! (I too am a poor perpetual student–veterinary resident–so a

Do your student fees include medical coverage? Some do. little pay, but not quiet minmum wage when you work it out–thank goodness I get medical insurance through the state as I work at a university). There are programs through the drug companies to provide medication at a reduced or free rate to qualified individuals.  Ask the Dr. who diagnosed you to use "samples" when trying a new drug so you don’t spend money on meds that aren’t going to work for you.

Doctors can’t give out "samples" of regulated drugs, which includes the more common ADD treatments.         Bob Kaplow      NAR # 18L       TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD"                 To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<< Kaplow Klips & Baffle:      http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf     www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/    www.nira-rocketry.org    www.nar.org  Save Model Rocketry from the HSA!   http://www.space-rockets.com/congress.html

Response:

There are programs through the drug companies to provide medication at a reduced or free rate to qualified individuals.

If you’re in the US you can check if the med you’re prescribed is on one of these programs at: http://www.needymeds.com/ . Multiple listings of any med means it’s available via different programs. Vashti

Response:

.  I’m a dyke, currently single, and I wonder what I can learn while I am still single that will help me navigate a successful relationship in the future – assuming I don’t "scare the horses" with my diagnosis.

Here in England dyke means lesbian. It is an offensive word – like faggot.

Response:

<<Doctors can’t give out "samples" of regulated drugs, which includes the more common ADD treatments. –Oh yea–good point!  In the veterinary field we don’t have to worry about that so much.  Occ. we do get the "drug-hunting" owner.  I guess I was also thinking of Straterra in particular.

Response:

.  I’m a dyke, currently single, and I wonder what I can learn while I am still single that will help me navigate a successful relationship in the future – assuming I don’t "scare the horses" with my diagnosis. Here in England dyke means lesbian. It is an offensive word – like faggot.

It is offensive in the US as well, if, and only if, used by persons who are not lesbians to refer to persons who are lesbians.   For example there are numerous motorcycle clubs and bicycle clubs around the world calling themselves "Dykes on Bikes" including one in London <http://www.geocities.com/dykesonbikesuk/.  And referring to a pair of diagonal-cutting pliers or the famous earthworks in the Netherlands as "dykes" is not generally offensive to anyone except those who are determined to be offended. — –John Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This week I was diagnosed with Adult ADHD.  While this is not entirely a surprise and I am glad I’m not Bipolar instead, I am still pretty much freaking out about what this means and what the future holds, etc.  I am also worried about how the hell I will afford a psychiatrist, a psychotherapist, and prescription meds given that I am one of the many million of Americans without medical insurance.  I am about to finish grad school, assuming I don’t flunk out. I want to learn as much as possible about the disorder, treatment options, and related relationship issues.  Anecdotes about your own experiences and types of Adult ADD/ADHD would be helpful, as would insights into how you all deal with romantic relationships.  I’m a dyke, currently single, and I wonder what I can learn while I am still single that will help me navigate a successful relationship in the future – assuming I don’t "scare the horses" with my diagnosis. What were you *like" before your diagnosis, and then after treatment began?  Can you give me some specific behavioral examples that illustrate your experiences? Is it possible to manage ADHD without meds? Which meds work – and how? Will I magically be come a more productive and focused person on meds, less prone to anger and irritability, more capable of holding a rewarding job, and more calm/less distracted?  If I go on meds, will my sex drive suffer, will I gain weight, or will I have to deal with other unpleasant side effects? I have already been on and have come off Paxil, Zoloft, Effexor and Topamax, which were prescribed for panic disorder – all of which made me either suicidal, catatonic, seriously deperssed, or sexually numb.  I don’t want to go through that again! What experiences do you have of dealing with co-morbid conditions such as panic disorder, anxiety, and depression. One last thing – I am probably the only 34 year-old American who does not drive and never has.  I suspect that my fear of driving may have something to do with being ADHD, but I don’t know.  It could also be a phobia – or simply related to my panic disorder, but basically I am scared shitless of either killing myself or someone else if I get behind the wheel of a car.  I find it difficult to integrate looking around me, figuring out which road I need to turn into, figuring out which lane to be in, watching for small children or red lights, or obstacles, and signalling appropriately, as well as actually operating the machinery.  Has anyone ever heard of this sort of problem, or experienced something similar? Now that I live in California, I really need to get over it and get a license and a car, because SD Transit is killing my social life!

That’s interesting.  I was surprised that a friend’s teenager wasn’t raring to get behind the wheel–I asked her about it and she said she "doesn’t multi-task very well" and seemed to be afraid.  Kind of surprising because she seems to be the adventurous sort otherwise.  Not ADHD–she was evaluated for that and found not to have it.  I wonder if you and she are experiencing the same thing? One thing that may help–don’t try to learn in a city–if you can find a friend who’ll take you out far from the madding crowd and let you practice on back roads in the country where you don’t have to go fast or dodge a lot of traffic you can get the conditioned responses down and once you’ve done that so that you don’t have to constantly think about the mechanics of keeping the car on the road and going straight the whole thing may become a lot easier for you. Your input would be greatly appreciated. Vik San Diego, CA

– –John Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Response:

Here in England dyke means lesbian. It is an offensive word – like faggot.

Here in the US dyke means lesbian too.  I didn’t mean to imply that I am a kangaroo or something – I meant to explain that I am a gay woman. And in England, where I am originally from and lived for a total of 18 years so far, lots of dykes self-ID as dykes.  Lots of lesbians self-ID as lesbians there too.  And lots of English queers self-ID as queer.  I guess any of these terms are only offensive to those who have not reclaimed the langugage. With that said, while in the UK, I’ve only lived in Sheffield, Liverpool, and London as a dyke – maybe in your neck of the woods (and social strata) the term ‘dyke’ is not the sexuality descriptive of choice. But it is for me. Cheers mate, Vik

Response:

And referring to a pair of diagonal-cutting pliers or the famous earthworks in the Netherlands as "dykes" is not generally offensive to anyone except those who are determined to be offended.

Better yet being referred to as being akin to a dike is a *complement*. A dike is considered a great thing and somewhere along the line the phrase was born: "Zij is een dijk van een vrouw" would translate literally as : she’s a dike of a woman, ie a great/strong woman. Used to describe those of either gender in a positive way. Don’t know about the diagonal-cutting pliers though, you lost me on that one. Vashti

Response:

Is it possible to manage ADHD without meds? Which meds work – and how? Will I magically be come a more productive and focused person on meds, less prone to anger and irritability, more capable of holding a rewarding job, and more calm/less distracted?  If I go on meds, will my sex drive suffer, will I gain weight, or will I have to deal with other unpleasant side effects?

Answering these questions form my experience only: It is possible to manage ADD without meds, until it isn’t.  With me, it became much less possible once I had kids. Generic Ritalin (methylphenidate) works great for me and it’s cheap. Yes I did become magically more productive, etc.  But I’m still ADD. The differences are usually subtle, but good.  My driving got much better. My sex drive didn’t change at all.  In fact my meds make it easier to concentrate, so if anything it’s better. No weight gain, sleep difficulties, or any other side effects.  I’m lucky, but I think this is the case more often than not.

Response:

: This week I was diagnosed with Adult ADHD.  While this is not entirely : a surprise and I am glad I’m not Bipolar instead, I am still pretty : much freaking out about what this means and what the future holds, : etc.  I am also worried about how the hell I will afford a : psychiatrist, a psychotherapist, and prescription meds given that I am : one of the many million of Americans without medical insurance.  I am : about to finish grad school, assuming I don’t flunk out. What about your Student Health Centre? Financial Aid may have bursaries for help. That’s how i paid for my eight hours ($1200) of AD/HD testing. The Doc i see who specializes in AD/HD is at Student Health. For the last four years, i have had a job on campus working with students. I have learned a lot about how to deal with such situations. (e.g. finding resources!) What school are you at? : panic disorder – all of which made me either suicidal, catatonic, : seriously deperssed, or sexually numb.  I don’t want to go through : that again! The panic/anxiety/depression gets better with meds. Ritalin didn’t calm me down, but Dexedrine does. In retrospect, much of that anxiety is from benig scatter-brained and panicked over feeling like a disorganized walking disaster, i found. The depression was the helplessness over my workload (due to Executive impairments.) You may want to look up the phrase "Executive Function" on GOOGLE, to understand what in the brain is impaired. : What experiences do you have of dealing with co-morbid conditions such : as panic disorder, anxiety, and depression. See above. : One last thing – I am probably the only 34 year-old American who does : not drive and never has.  I suspect that my fear of driving may have : something to do with being ADHD, but I don’t know.  It could also be a : phobia – or simply related to my panic disorder, but basically I am : scared shitless of either killing myself or someone else if I get : behind the wheel of a car.  I find it difficult to integrate looking : around me, figuring out which road I need to turn into, figuring out : which lane to be in, watching for small children or red lights, or : obstacles, and signalling appropriately, as well as actually operating : the machinery.  Has anyone ever heard of this sort of problem, or : experienced something similar? Now that I live in California, I really : need to get over it and get a license and a car, because SD Transit is : killing my social life! Yup. AD/HDers have a higher rate of accidents — likely due to inattention and/or impulsivity. But with some help and planning, you will manage. <G Emma

Response:

I am also recently pre-diagnosed with probably ADHD. For me, this is an incredible relief as the previous Bipolar diagnosis left me with unsuitable meds that didn’t even come cloe to helping me feel and/or be Normal. And when I say Normal, I mean MY definition of Normal. All I need to do now is verify what pill is pinkish-orange and has a ’score-line’ to help cut it in half, with the number 4930 over the ’score-line’ and the letter V under it. Does anyone have a recent PDR they could look this thing up in for me, please? TIA

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am also recently pre-diagnosed with probably ADHD. For me, this is an incredible relief as the previous Bipolar diagnosis left me with unsuitable meds that didn’t even come cloe to helping me feel and/or be Normal. And when I say Normal, I mean MY definition of Normal. All I need to do now is verify what pill is pinkish-orange and has a ’score-line’ to help cut it in half, with the number 4930 over the ’score-line’ and the letter V under it. Does anyone have a recent PDR they could look this thing up in for me, please?

You can sign up for an online PDR here: http://www.pdr.net/pdrnet/librarian

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am also recently pre-diagnosed with probably ADHD. For me, this is an incredible relief as the previous Bipolar diagnosis left me with unsuitable meds that didn’t even come cloe to helping me feel and/or be Normal. And when I say Normal, I mean MY definition of Normal. All I need to do now is verify what pill is pinkish-orange and has a ’score-line’ to help cut it in half, with the number 4930 over the ’score-line’ and the letter V under it. Does anyone have a recent PDR they could look this thing up in for me, please? You can sign up for an online PDR here: http://www.pdr.net/pdrnet/librarian

AWESOME!  THANK YOU!

Response:

Question:

My left arm is really bad.  If my right arm goes, I’ll be screwed.  I think I tried Baclofen with no effect.  Good luck!!! "Tommy Hellesto" <helle…@turbonet.com

wrote in message

news:1018sd857u5ufc5@corp.supernews.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

I live in a care center, have gone throug every treatment options–my life is writing — I learned voice and my voice changed – ugh I take 10 mg of baclofin daily — would like to hear from others with tremor problems.

Barb

— b o’hanlon-hellesto spinner of tales/weaver of verse ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ESCAPADES OF MOSTLY IRISH http://www.geocities.com/wiseheart1 POETRY http://family.palouse.net/poetry ESSAYS http://family.palouse.net/mssays/index.html ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Response:

I live in a care center, have gone throug every treatment options–my life is writing — I learned voice and my voice changed – ugh I take 10 mg of baclofin daily — would like to hear from others with tremor problems. Barb — b o’hanlon-hellesto spinner of tales/weaver of verse ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ESCAPADES OF MOSTLY IRISH http://www.geocities.com/wiseheart1 POETRY http://family.palouse.net/poetry ESSAYS http://family.palouse.net/mssays/index.html ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Response:

"Tommy Hellesto" <helle…@turbonet.com

wrote in message <news:1018sd857u5ufc5@corp.supernews.com… I live in a care center, have gone throug every treatment options–my life is writing — I learned voice and my voice changed – ugh I take 10 mg of baclofin daily — would like to hear from others with tremor problems. Barb

hi barb, i have tremor problems, especially with the hands. if you’ve gone through every treatment option, would that include the kinds of things neuros often prescribe for M.S.-related tremor — klonopin, topomax, tegretol? i take no meds specifically for tremor. my neuro said there are different kinds — intention tremor, which he says cannot be treated with meds, and other sorts, the names of which i forget. if the problem is mainly in your hands, you might try either holding the wrist of the shaky hand with the other hand, to steady it, or, i’ve heard that grabbing the shaky arm above the elbow and squeezing with your thumb and forefinger can also get them to stop. i’ve never taken klonopin, because my doc won’t prescribe two benzo’s simultaneously, and painful muscle spasms bother me more than the shakes, so i chose valium over klonopin. but my daughter took it for a while — a hack primary with a prescription pad decided she had an ‘anxiety disorder’ because she was anxious about her final exams, and prescribed it for her. she didn’t shake or tremble at all. he refused to ‘allow’ her to stp taking it, so she cold-turkeyed it without his ok. she’s fine.  :-

are there physical therapists in the care center available to you? possibly a PT would have some how-to-deal suggestions, if the meds are not working for you? i used to be a writer as well, and had to gie it up — not because of tremors, but fatigue, mobility, and cognitive reasons. it wasn’t my LIFE, though…just the way i made mylliving. best of luck — tremors can be waaaaay bothersome. rose

Response:

I find that a low dose Beta blocker works well for me. I will sometime add a half of a Xanax or Neurontin(gabapentin) if pain develops with tremors. Jack N Dalton "Essential tremor often does not require treatment. Lifestyle changes, such as reducing stress and avoiding caffeine and alcohol, may improve symptoms. Physical therapy may help reduce essential tremor of the hands, arms, legs, and trunk, and speech therapy may be beneficial for people whose voice is affected. Severe tremor that affects the patient’s ability to perform daily tasks and interferes with their quality of life can be treated with medication or surgery. Medication Severe essential tremor can be reduced using medication in most (approx. 50-75%) cases. Beta-blockers, such as propranolol (Indural

Question:

"Ben Johnson" <web…@hotmail.com

wrote in message

news:3fdfbd24$1@duster.adelaide.on.net…

So lighten up a bit – it’s supposed to be a happy time of year!

Hello Ben, If you were following what Doug with the moral support of Meryl has been doing to me you would not feel so light hearted and bright. This is by no means a happy time of the year when rows break out in homes all over the world due to pent up unresolved conflicts that were happening during the year and possibly dating back long before that. Threads develop in their own way and I don’t think anyone can claim ownership of a thread. In my case my brother who is 46 has a 2 year old daughter and has a highly paid job working for a multi national here in Dublin is already causing me headaches a full two weeks ahead of Christmas day itself.  I’m stuck here living with my uncompromisingly cruel parents. My brorther telephoned the house last Friday morning inviting my parents and me to his house for Christmas dinner. The so and so didn’t ask me, a 50 year old adult male, whether I wanted to go to his house for Chritmas dinner. The fact is I was looking foward to eating some Christmas fare alone here where I live but now my parents will not cook as they have always done for themselves on Christmas day. I eat what remains of the cooked food. I will spend some part of Christmas day totally alone while my brother, his wife, his adorable little daughter, and my parents enjoy each other’s company. I am not welcome in his house during the the rest of the year and I’m not welcome in his house on Christmas day either. As far as discussing drugs and their effects in a newsgroup like this I must point out, as I took pains to point out before, that the clinical trials where drugs are tested for their effect and safety are carried out, as demanded by the regulatory authorities in the different countries, by highly trained doctors who have at least one university degree including years of training in this specialised discipline. Not only are these people highly trained professionals they probably also have a natural flair for the making the kind of observations that they will need to make during the trials. It is pure folly and very dangerous to post questions to a newsgroup like this asking for advice about drugs. No one, absolutely no one in this group or any similar group who does not at the very least have a medical degree is entitled to give advice about these dangerous poisons collectively known today as drugs. If you want advice about a drug then the only logical thing to do is to ask one or a few experienced psychiatrists who dispense drugs and who have feedback from their patients and if they are good doctors the results of the clinical trials as well on any given drug. Even then one cannot be completely at ease given that many doctors worry including one campaigner called Dr. David Healy who is now based in Wales and who was interviewed just the other day on one of BBC1’s main news  bulletins about the so called SSRI’s and the dangers that exist surrounding their use. Anyone who swallows the hype that SSRI’s really do affect the levels of serotonin in the brain and that this is the mechanism that induces therapeutic benefits is an idiot. I saw an experienced psychiatrist recently who is learning more about me and who prescribed Seroxat/Paxil(paroxetine) has my trust but even then I will not take the drug knowing as I do that the what will cure me of this crippling disorder will be a scheme that I will figure out based on what I understand about how I am affected. I advise you to contact Doug to ask him to send you the nasty things he has written about me and how Meryl came to Doug’s aid when it suddenly became clear to her that Doug had been exposed for the nasty so and so he really is. I would like to compliment you for the nice tone you conveyed in your message to me. This is why I have taken time out to write to you. I still maintain that Doug has created an atmosphere of fear in the group and if you care to perform a perfunctory check on the posting rate over the last while you will see that the group appears to be disintegrating maintaining as I do that people are just too frightened to post in this climate of fear and hostility. Don’t forget to do what I asked you to do which is to ask Doug to send you all the evil dribble he has written about me. He appears to be a foremost expert compiling files on people and based on his past shameful performance here in what is supposed to be a support group, a sanctuary in cyberspace for us, a place where people used to be able to post to get support, he will have no difficuly at all providing you with volumes of material for you to read so that you can put things into their proper and correct context. If you can find a thread I wrote called "Mirror Neurons and Social Phobia" that I posted some time ago you will be able to read up about what I understand about Social Phobia. Understanding this affliction is a prerequisite step to finding a cure. The contents of this thoughtful post are what Doug got so worked up about. You can judge for yourself whether Doug or I have the most to offer this little group. No one in this group is going to recover using drugs alone and drugs will never fix the problem. Anyone can describe their experiences using some drug but no matter how well you understand the effect a particulrar drug is having on you you cannot pass on this information to others in the form that it will be helpful to them since everybody is different and everybody’s reaction to some drug will be different depending as it does on wat may be actually happening to you at any given time. If for example one had a scary interaction with a member of the usually dangerous public that interaction may have a dramatic effect for say 24 hours or longer depending on how the drug you are taking affects you. I’m so sad that the group is no longer functioning the way it used to because even though I am immeasurably better off today compared to when I first started posting around the middle of December 2001 I probably got great benefit from posting messages and joining in threads that interested me. I don’t need the group to the extent that I used to and I probaly don’t need  the group at all now. This is a measure of the benefits of thinking through something even if I’m convinced that the the therapy that will facilitate a cure will not be a drug and neither will it be CBT. If the happy day comes when I am free of Social Phobia I will return to the group to tell you what strategies I have been working on. Until that time my hands are tied for obvious reasons. I repeat this is not a happy time of the year for adults and as far as I know the suicide rate increases shortly after Christmas and for a period after the New Year. It’s a hppy time indeed for some kids but that’s about it. Many people like to deceive themselves but I prefer to live under the potentially cold light of reality. At least I can see what is really going on and this gives me some peace of mind. People deceive themselves about a myriad of things with devastating consequences for all of us in the long term whem the effort to maintain the deception becomes overpowering and when we finally buckle under the strain of living with all the lies people tell themselves and others for the sake of an living in what appears to be on the surface a more beautiful world. We have nothing to fear about the truth. Besides with TV and the global satellite communcations suystem we are all able to come closer to each other more safely as we see at long last that the rantings of philosophers and religious is all about control by domininating the general population using fear forcing us to live by insane rules, like for example the Ten Commandments, that apply in whole to not one single person alive. The future is bright and like I’ve suggested before our biggest concern is the stability of our weather. If we can keep moving foward the way we are doing today the future will be fantastic and that means our future will be great as well. Peter Nolan.

Response:

Have been seeing a psychiatrist for my Social Phobia / Depression since 2000 and have been on antidepressants since that time.   Zoloft 200mg/day for 2 years, and since then Efexor XR 150mg/day. I’ve cancelled my last appointments with him as I’m not interested / can’t be bothered to see him anymore – he just seems to be interested in prescribing drugs rather than fixing my problems. Zoloft seemed to work from about the 4th to 8th month point – but stopped working a couple of months after. Since then I’ve felt "flat" ever since and the Efexor hasn’t helped either. I have about 8 weeks of meds left. I’m worried about how to ease myself off these drugs. I know when I go without my Efexor for a couple of days I get quite bad mood-swings and it can be a little scary. Please help with some advice. Thanks, Ben

Response:

I came off Effexor recently, after only 75 mg/day for seven weeks.  My doc’s instructions were to take 37.5 mg daily for a week, then 37.5 mg every other day for 2 more weeks, then discontinue.  Those three weeks

were

a cakewalk, but were followed by 3-4 weeks of tachycardia, which my doc insists was an extremely atypical discontinuance reaction. Sorry I can’t help with the Zoloft.

Figaro, It is Efexor I’m coming off (had been on Zoloft previous). I have the 150mg slow-release capsules (they’re full of little white balls). So I guess if I want to half the dosage it’s a case of emptying out a capsule down the sink and filling the empty shell with half the contents from another capsule.  That effectively gives me 2 x 75mg capsules – right ? Anyone else on these slow-release capsules?  Do you find they don’t digest properly? BJ

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Ben Johnson wrote:

Have been seeing a psychiatrist for my Social Phobia / Depression since 2000 and have been on antidepressants since that time.   Zoloft 200mg/day for 2 years, and since then Efexor XR 150mg/day. I’ve cancelled my last appointments with him as I’m not interested / can’t be bothered to see him anymore – he just seems to be interested in prescribing drugs rather than fixing my problems. Zoloft seemed to work from about the 4th to 8th month point – but stopped working a couple of months after. Since then I’ve felt "flat" ever since and the Efexor hasn’t helped either. I have about 8 weeks of meds left. I’m worried about how to ease myself off these drugs. I know when I go without my Efexor for a couple of days I get quite bad mood-swings and it can be a little scary. Please help with some advice.

normally you just lower the dose slowly for a few weeks and then just stop. Stopping drugs like that suddenly can cause complications. If you have to break the tablets in two to get a smaller dose. BTW to come of benzo diazeprams it can take up to a month to lower the dosage before you stop. Richard

Response:

On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 11:32:15 +1100, "Ben Johnson" <web…@hotmail.com

wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Have been seeing a psychiatrist for my Social Phobia / Depression since 2000 and have been on antidepressants since that time.   Zoloft 200mg/day for 2 years, and since then Efexor XR 150mg/day. I’ve cancelled my last appointments with him as I’m not interested / can’t be bothered to see him anymore – he just seems to be interested in prescribing drugs rather than fixing my problems. Zoloft seemed to work from about the 4th to 8th month point – but stopped working a couple of months after. Since then I’ve felt "flat" ever since and the Efexor hasn’t helped either. I have about 8 weeks of meds left. I’m worried about how to ease myself off these drugs. I know when I go without my Efexor for a couple of days I get quite bad mood-swings and it can be a little scary. Please help with some advice. Thanks, Ben

Hi Ben, I have recently withdrawn from Effexor XR under medical supervision. It was not easy. I was at 300 mg. My dose was lowered by 75 mg each time. If you are not on XR you may be able to taper at a smaller increment. I had extra Xanax to help with the withdrawal. I had 4 to 5 days between tapers. The first 2 days were the most difficult, symptom-wise. Being able to space the tapers apart further might be easier. My depression returned big time by the time I was at 75 mg per day and then 75 mg alternate days. It was not fun. The reason for my taper was that I was having adverse side effects to Effexor XR at 300mg and it was losing its efficacy. I switched reasonably quickly and I am now taking Lexapro. I find it is working well. I strongly advise you to seek help from your doctor and maybe look at alternative medications. love Meryl

Response:

On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 15:49:43 +1100, "Ben Johnson" <web…@hotmail.com

wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

I came off Effexor recently, after only 75 mg/day for seven weeks.  My doc’s instructions were to take 37.5 mg daily for a week, then 37.5 mg every other day for 2 more weeks, then discontinue.  Those three weeks were a cakewalk, but were followed by 3-4 weeks of tachycardia, which my doc insists was an extremely atypical discontinuance reaction. Sorry I can’t help with the Zoloft. Figaro, It is Efexor I’m coming off (had been on Zoloft previous). I have the 150mg slow-release capsules (they’re full of little white balls). So I guess if I want to half the dosage it’s a case of emptying out a capsule down the sink and filling the empty shell with half the contents from another capsule.  That effectively gives me 2 x 75mg capsules – right ?

This does not sound a good idea. I believe it is very difficult to get an accurate dosage that way. You may be able to get Effexor tablets at 37.5mg. Effexor XR also comes in 75 mg capsules.

Anyone else on these slow-release capsules?  Do you find they don’t digest properly?

I had no problem with digesting the capsules but then I can swallow/digest medication with little difficulty. . Effexor worked well for me for many years. Meryl

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 04:55:02 GMT, Richard James <u…@err.com

wrote: Ben Johnson wrote: Have been seeing a psychiatrist for my Social Phobia / Depression since 2000 and have been on antidepressants since that time.   Zoloft 200mg/day for 2 years, and since then Efexor XR 150mg/day. I’ve cancelled my last appointments with him as I’m not interested / can’t be bothered to see him anymore – he just seems to be interested in prescribing drugs rather than fixing my problems. Zoloft seemed to work from about the 4th to 8th month point – but stopped working a couple of months after. Since then I’ve felt "flat" ever since and the Efexor hasn’t helped either. I have about 8 weeks of meds left. I’m worried about how to ease myself off these drugs. I know when I go without my Efexor for a couple of days I get quite bad mood-swings and it can be a little scary. Please help with some advice. normally you just lower the dose slowly for a few weeks and then just stop. Stopping drugs like that suddenly can cause complications. If you have to break the tablets in two to get a smaller dose. BTW to come of benzo diazeprams it can take up to a month to lower the dosage before you stop. Richard

Hi Richard, Ben is talking about XR capsules of a SNRI. It is not possible to break them in two to halve the dose. Meryl

Response:

On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 11:32:15 +1100, "Ben Johnson" <web…@hotmail.com

wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Have been seeing a psychiatrist for my Social Phobia / Depression since 2000 and have been on antidepressants since that time.   Zoloft 200mg/day for 2 years, and since then Efexor XR 150mg/day. I’ve cancelled my last appointments with him as I’m not interested / can’t be bothered to see him anymore – he just seems to be interested in prescribing drugs rather than fixing my problems. Zoloft seemed to work from about the 4th to 8th month point – but stopped working a couple of months after. Since then I’ve felt "flat" ever since and the Efexor hasn’t helped either. I have about 8 weeks of meds left. I’m worried about how to ease myself off these drugs. I know when I go without my Efexor for a couple of days I get quite bad mood-swings and it can be a little scary. Please help with some advice. Thanks, Ben

From RXlist.com Discontinuing Venlafaxine Hydrochloride Immediate Release Tablets: When discontinuing venlafaxine HCl after more than 1 week of therapy, it is generally recommended that the dose be tapered to minimize the risk of discontinuation symptoms. Patients who have received venlafaxine HCl for 6 weeks or more should have their dose tapered gradually over a 2-week period. Extended Release Capsules: When discontinuing venlafaxine HCl (extended release) after more than 1 week of therapy, it is generally recommended that the dose be tapered to minimize the risk of discontinuation symptoms. In clinical trials with venlafaxine HCl (extended release), tapering was achieved by reducing the daily dose by 75 mg at 1 week intervals. Individualization of tapering may be necessary. While the discontinuation effects of venlafaxine HCl (extended release) have not been systematically evaluated in controlled clinical trials, a retrospective survey of new events occurring during taper or following discontinuation revealed the following six events that occurred at an incidence of at least 3% and for which the incidence for venlafaxine HCl (extended release) was at least twice the placebo incidence: dizziness, dry mouth, insomnia, nausea, nervousness, and sweating.

Response:

Meryl  <mapr…@ozemail.com.au

writes: On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 15:49:43 +1100, "Ben Johnson" <web…@hotmail.com wrote: I have the 150mg slow-release capsules (they’re full of little white balls). So I guess if I want to half the dosage it’s a case of emptying out a capsule down the sink and filling the empty shell with half the contents from another capsule.  That effectively gives me 2 x 75mg capsules – right ? This does not sound a good idea. I believe it is very difficult to get an accurate dosage that way.

Could be, but I’d think that taking half the contents of a capsule one day and half the next would give a more constant concentration in the body (and thus less chance of withdrawal effects) than taking a whole capsule every 2 days.

You may be able to get Effexor tablets at 37.5mg.

They exist, but taking one 75mg modified release capsule each day would give a more constant concentration than taking two 37.5mg immediate release tablets each day. Some ADs are available as a liquid, to make it easier to tweak dosage, but venlafaxine doesn’t seem to be one of them.

Effexor XR also comes in 75 mg capsules.

And 37.5mg capsules in the US (but not in the UK [sigh]). I halved my 75mg/day for a fortnight by putting half of each 75mg capsule in some empty capsules (which I happened to have lying around!). I expect Ben could do away with the capsules if he could swallow the little balls, and not have them get stuck between his teeth. Wyeth say (in the prescribing info) that if one can’t swallow a capsule, it’s OK to mix the contents with a teaspoonful of applesauce(!) and swallow that. Here’s my experience of stopping venlafaxine, for what it’s worth. I was on 75mg of the modified release stuff for 7 months up until 3 weeks ago when I stopped it cold (on my GPs suggestion… which seemed iffy, but I was so fed up with feeling dopey most of the time that I was beyond caring). Things I’ve noticed: . For the first couple of weeks, when my field of vision changed suddenly, I’d hear squelching noises for a second or 2. . For the first couple of weeks, I’d cry ‘at the drop of a hat’, which was odd cos I usually wasn’t feeling particularly sad. . I was going to say I’ve had slight diarrhoea since I stopped, but it’s probably more accurate to say that the constipation I’ve had for years and years has stopped! . I’ve stopped gaining weight. (I gained 25lbs over the 7 months.) . I’m more energetic, but still dopey. The latter doesn’t surprise me, though, cos I’ve gone from sleeping a total of 8 hours a day (in short bursts) to sleeping an average of 5 hours a day (in 1 burst). This is frustrating. I’ve lost 2 years of university study due to dopiness which I attribute to meds. If I’m still dopey when my next course starts (February), I will *not* be a happy bunny!

Anyone else on these slow-release capsules?  Do you find they don’t digest properly?

I never had a problem with digesting the capsules.

Response:

I keep thinking lately "I just don’t know anymore…" i.e. I just don’t know if the drugs are doing anything.   I haven’t had many SP symptoms for a couple of years now – but then again, I’m just too tired to be bothered to get out-and-about to put myself into situations where I’d get SP. I don’t think it’s avoidance.   If it is avoidance – it’s not a conscious thought-out avoidance like what I used to do.  These days it’s more a "can’t be bothered" attitude – which might be depression, might be chronic fatigue, might be because I smoke pot sometimes. BJ "Doug D." <gdd…@aug.com

wrote in message

news:uvkntv0si82ghnabgsm7ev26aoi5tvulq1@4ax.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 11:32:15 +1100, "Ben Johnson" <web…@hotmail.com wrote: Have been seeing a psychiatrist for my Social Phobia / Depression since

2000

and have been on antidepressants since that time.   Zoloft 200mg/day for

2

years, and since then Efexor XR 150mg/day. I’ve cancelled my last appointments with him as I’m not interested /

can’t

be bothered to see him anymore – he just seems to be interested in prescribing drugs rather than fixing my problems. Zoloft seemed to work from about the 4th to 8th month point – but stopped working a couple of months after. Since then I’ve felt "flat" ever since

and

the Efexor hasn’t helped either. I have about 8 weeks of meds left. I’m worried about how to ease myself off these drugs. I know when I go without my Efexor for a couple of days I get quite bad mood-swings and it can be a little scary. Please help with some advice. Thanks, Ben Hi Ben, I took Effexor for approximately a year and it worked similarly to Paxil, an ssri anti depressant, which is to say it helped to reduced my anxiety, but it couldn’t stop bouts of high anxiety or situational panic attacks.  It eventually pooped out and I ended up dropping it for another AD at that time.  I would recommend that you wean off this drug slowly, just as you would an ssri anti depressant.  This means gradually decreasing your dosage over at least a several week period. This lessens withdrawal and its side effects.  Last, but not least, talk to your doctor, if not the shrink, then your GP and get his input re. tapering off Effexor.  Whatever you do, don’t just stop taking it altogether because the side effects can be quite uncomfortable.  Best wishes. Doug D.

Response:

Thanks Meryl and everyone else.   Meryl – I see you are in Oz – and so am I. I agree with what you say about our public health system here – especially in NSW. I like the apple sauce idea.   Also much less wasteful than emptying every 2nd capsule down the sink! I think I should try to get the motivation to see the doc and do all this properly.  I’ll need a new referral to get back to the psych – it’s all such a hassel and I just feel so constantly drained of energy.  I just can’t be bothered with it all. And when I do get back to the psych he’s probably going to hassle me about why I cancelled my last appointments, etc.. etc.. etc.. "Meryl" <mapr…@ozemail.com.au

wrote in message

news:92ultvsiji4kdopphh86409g3bvmmfaq6m@4ax.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

On 13 Dec 2003 10:32:15 +0000, Bruce Mardle <br…@algol.demon.co.uk wrote: Meryl  <mapr…@ozemail.com.au writes: On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 15:49:43 +1100, "Ben Johnson" <web…@hotmail.com wrote: I have the 150mg slow-release capsules (they’re full of little white

balls).

So I guess if I want to half the dosage it’s a case of emptying out a capsule down the sink and filling the empty shell with half the

contents

from another capsule.  That effectively gives me 2 x 75mg capsules –

right ?

This does not sound a good idea. I believe it is very difficult to get an accurate dosage that way. Could be, but I’d think that taking half the contents of a capsule one day and half the next would give a more constant concentration in the body (and thus less chance of withdrawal effects) than taking a whole capsule every 2 days. OK. Given what you have written later. I have heard of capsules being opened and mixed in juice but I have no experience of that. You may be able to get Effexor tablets at 37.5mg. They exist, but taking one 75mg modified release capsule each day would give a more constant concentration than taking two 37.5mg immediate release tablets each day. Some ADs are available as a liquid, to make it easier to tweak dosage, but venlafaxine doesn’t seem to be one of them. Effexor XR also comes in 75 mg capsules. And 37.5mg capsules in the US (but not in the UK [sigh]). I am in Oz. I’m not sure we have 37.5. I did take 75 XR alternate days. It was not fun.  I halved my 75mg/day for a fortnight by putting half of each 75mg capsule in some empty capsules (which I happened to have lying around!). I expect Ben could do away with the capsules if he could swallow the little balls, and not have them get stuck between his teeth. Wyeth say (in the prescribing info) that if one can’t swallow a capsule, it’s OK to mix the contents with a teaspoonful of applesauce(!) and swallow that. Sounds like a plan. Here’s my experience of stopping venlafaxine, for what it’s worth. I was on 75mg of the modified release stuff for 7 months up until 3 weeks ago when I stopped it cold (on my GPs suggestion… which seemed iffy, but I was so fed up with feeling dopey most of the time that I was beyond caring). Things I’ve noticed: . For the first couple of weeks, when my field of vision changed suddenly, I’d hear squelching noises for a second or 2. . For the first couple of weeks, I’d cry ‘at the drop of a hat’, which was odd cos I usually wasn’t feeling particularly sad. Was it depression? When that happens with me it is normally an indicator of depression. . I was going to say I’ve had slight diarrhoea since I stopped, but it’s probably more accurate to say that the constipation I’ve had for years and years has stopped! I had lots of gastric problems, still have weeks later but I suspect that Lexapro might be a factor. I deal with the symptoms and I am grateful that my depression is alleviated. . I’ve stopped gaining weight. (I gained 25lbs over the 7 months.) Effexor worked well for me for years. It did not affect my weight just returned my mood to normal. . I’m more energetic, but still dopey. The latter doesn’t surprise me, though, cos I’ve gone from sleeping a total of 8 hours a day (in short bursts) to sleeping an average of 5 hours a day (in 1 burst). This is frustrating. I’ve lost 2 years of university study due to dopiness which I attribute to meds. If I’m still dopey when my next course starts (February), I will *not* be a happy bunny! Effexor can affect sleep. I had insomnia at first but it passed. Anyone else on these slow-release capsules?  Do you find they don’t

digest

properly? I never had a problem with digesting the capsules. I guess I responded as I did because I have dreadful memories of going through withdrawal cold turkey from 150 mg to 0. I had been admitted to hospital and was on nil by mouth. Thankfully they relented and allowed me a capsule after 60 hours. I was on IV Diazepam at the time. All the best, Meryl

Response:

On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 11:19:24 -0000, "Peter  Nolan" <nos…@nospam.com

wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->"Meryl" <mapr…@ozemail.com.au> wrote in message >news:onultvoa745lc6v2l4rf9cncvk7pa7sstd@4ax.com… >> On Sat, 13 Dec 2003 10:54:13 -0000, "Peter  Nolan" <nos…@nospam.com

>> wrote: >> >"Meryl" <mapr…@ozemail.com.au> wrote in message >> >news:ckdktvgei03hhs43p6kv1cc8107aomskd5@4ax.com… >> >Hello Meryl, >> >I see you are still flying the flag for Doug in our group. >> I speak for myself. >> >You have Panic Disorder by your own admission and do not belong in this >> >group. >> and depression and agoraphobia. I came here to learn about social >> phobia so I could bring more understanding to my relationship. I did >> ask posters if they objected. I don’t recall you objecting until now. >> >You do not suffer from Social Phobia and therefore have no idea what you >are >> >talking about. >> I was talking about tapering from Effexor. I know much about that. I >> was taking it for 5 years. >> >You are not entitled to advise us on anything concerning Social Phobia >> >whether it’s about drugs or any other aspect of our crippling disorder. >> Could you explain why my posting upsets you so much? >> >Do us all a favour by subcribing to a group about Panic Disorder like >> >alt.support.anxiety-panic. >> I do and ASAPM. >> >Leave us alone. It’s bad enough suffering from Social Phobia without an >> >asshole like you with a filthy agenda messing us up passing off as >someone >> >who can help us here in alt.support.social-phobia. >> Would you like to talk about what you see as my agenda? I am >> interested, really. >> >Go somewhere else where you can gloat about others less fortunate than >> >yourself. >> I am sorry if you perceive me as gloating. I am not sure why. >> >I’m sick and tired of you popping up here on a regular basis because that >> >evil cocksucker, Doug, has finally figured out he serves no useful >purpose >> >in assp where he tries to pass himself off as a qualified pharmacist or >even >> >a psychiatrist. >> Believe me, Doug is not a pharmacist, nor a psychiatrist. However he >> does have SP, hence my appearance here to learn more about the >> disorder. >> >In other words, kiss your ass and swallow! >> I don’t think I have mentioned that I have a chronic back problem. I >> think such a contortion is beyond me. >Hello Meryl, >You must think that we are a bunch of soft headed morons. >I don’t believe a single word word you say. Leave our group. You do not >belong here. You made your entrance when you told us what a kind loving man >Doug was. We now know otherwise. That is when you should have left. >Doug has destroyed our group when it became obvious to him that he could no >longer play the role of father figure to the group dominating and infecting >the group by trying to write in a calm measured way when there was a almost >uncontrollable rage seething inside him something we have all seen now in >him at long last. >The group barely functions now because the younger members of the group are >just too frightened to post the way they used to. I had to leave the group >because of Doug’s first attack on me and I was about to leave the group for >the second and last time when John Jay came to the rescue. When I returned >to the group for the second time hoping that I could post without feeling >fear Doug, this evil piece of shit, waited for just the right moment to >attack me for a second time. >Since he can no longer enjoy the feeling that he is the group’s wise old man >seeing himself a someone in his middle 50’s who has survived till now the >ravages of Social Phobia he set about creating so much fear in us, people >who already live in a constant state of fear, that he has single handedly >destroyed our group to the point where we are lucky if thre is even just one >post per day. This group is a sanctuary for the relatively small number of >people in the group who have really nowhere else to go. It was a precious >resource that I valued greatly. Now if things continue the way they are >going Usenet will close the group altogether and the great all knowing one, >Doug,  will be to blame for this. >I was 50 last July and as I took pains to explain to the younger members of >the group there is really nothing special about the way I write. The ability >to write is something that develops with age and all of the younger members >of the group will find that this is true when they get older. So they are >easily intimidated by the words of older people who don’t know that they >have nothing to be afraid of even if what Doug writes fills them with a >feeling of dread and foreboding. >I curse Doug for doing what he did to me and what he has done to this group. >If you want to learn about Social Phobia this is not the place to do it and >if you think I will accept that you are hear to learn more about Social >Phobia then you must think I’m the biggest fool you have ever come across. >I see Doug has posted a message below this and if this piece of shit thinks >I will read it then he too thinks I am a complete idiot. >I expect Usenet will close terminate the group soon if things don’t pick up >and trhe younger members of the group find the couage to start posting >again. I have encouraged everyone many times to post and not be afraid but >now thanks to Doug the level of fear is just too high. >Go away. You have nothing whatsoever to offer to this dying group. >Peter Nolan

Hi Peter, I wonder if you hostility towards me has been triggered by the fact that there were several days recently when there were few, if any, posts. It is your right to believe or disbelieve as you see fit. I am a little older than you and I have suffered many years of real life emotional abuse. This may or may not be a factor in the development of my anxiety. For me, I finding it more helpful to let go of the past and try to move on. I also believe that anger is a wasted emotion. YMMV, Meryl

Response:

Peter, I’m a former "regular" of this group but this is my first time back since 1999. One thing we used to talk about back then was that the medical profession liked to use labels as a convenient way to categorize patients – when in fact many of us who had been classed as having X, Y, or Z were all reporting similar symptoms to varying degrees. In otherwords – there’s a lot of cross-over between different conditions and it’s probably likely that each individual has their own mix of symptoms to varying degrees (no 2 of us are identical in our psych make-up and symptoms). I think people like Meryl can offer assistance.  In this case she is from the same country as I am, and she has experience with the same drug and it’s side-effects.  So regardless whether she’s classed as "Panic Disorder" and I’m classed as "Social Anxeity Disorder" I think it’s still possible we can learn from each other’s experiences with the same drug – particularly if we share some of the common underlying conditions. I’m not up with all the recent history of this group – but ultimately this was my topic-thread and I appreciated everybody’s input – including Meryl’s and Doug’s.  If I think somebody’s trying to stear me the wrong way for whatever reason I’m quite capable of handling it. So lighten up a bit – it’s supposed to be a happy time of year! Ben "Peter Nolan" <nos…@nospam.com

wrote in message

news:sdCCb.554$HR.1997@news.indigo.ie… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Meryl" <mapr…@ozemail.com.au

wrote in message

> news:ckdktvgei03hhs43p6kv1cc8107aomskd5@4ax.com… > Hello Meryl, > I see you are still flying the flag for Doug in our group. > You have Panic Disorder by your own admission and do not belong in this > group. > You do not suffer from Social Phobia and therefore have no idea what you are

talking about. You are not entitled to advise us on anything concerning Social Phobia whether it’s about drugs or any other aspect of our crippling disorder. Do us all a favour by subcribing to a group about Panic Disorder like alt.support.anxiety-panic. Leave us alone. It’s bad enough suffering from Social Phobia without an asshole like you with a filthy agenda messing us up passing off as someone who can help us here in alt.support.social-phobia. Go somewhere else where you can gloat about others less fortunate than yourself. I’m sick and tired of you popping up here on a regular basis because that evil cocksucker, Doug, has finally figured out he serves no useful purpose in assp where he tries to pass himself off as a qualified pharmacist or

even

a psychiatrist. In other words, kiss your ass and swallow! Peter Nolan.

Response:

Peter, I’m not sure what’s come over you.  I haven’t spoken to you in weeks, yet you’re on a rampage.  Are you well?  You certainly don’t sound like you’re firing on all cylinders.  Without implying that you have anything other than social anxiety disorder, you may want to give strong consideration to seeing a qualified psychiatrist/psychologist to determine if you have other issues that you may not be aware of. There’s no question that extreme, unprovoked anger is a major problem with you right now, but perhaps this is a warning sign or symptom of some underlying, unknown illness(s).  Again, I don’t know that, nor am I implying that you are plagued by anything other than sp.  With one exception.  You’ve developed perhaps the worst case of gutter mouth that I’ve seen on Usenet for a long, long while.  Wherever did you get the idea that vulgarity constitutes good writing style. Incidentally, if you’re going to keep this tirade up, it would undoubtedly be best if you considered leaving Usenet, at least until you cool off.  If any one person is likely to damage the group, it’s certainly you more so than me. Doug D. On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 11:19:24 -0000, "Peter  Nolan" <nos…@nospam.com

wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->"Meryl" <mapr…@ozemail.com.au> wrote in message >news:onultvoa745lc6v2l4rf9cncvk7pa7sstd@4ax.com… >> On Sat, 13 Dec 2003 10:54:13 -0000, "Peter  Nolan" <nos…@nospam.com

>> wrote: >> >"Meryl" <mapr…@ozemail.com.au> wrote in message >> >news:ckdktvgei03hhs43p6kv1cc8107aomskd5@4ax.com… >> >Hello Meryl, >> >I see you are still flying the flag for Doug in our group. >> I speak for myself. >> >You have Panic Disorder by your own admission and do not belong in this >> >group. >> and depression and agoraphobia. I came here to learn about social >> phobia so I could bring more understanding to my relationship. I did >> ask posters if they objected. I don’t recall you objecting until now. >> >You do not suffer from Social Phobia and therefore have no idea what you >are >> >talking about. >> I was talking about tapering from Effexor. I know much about that. I >> was taking it for 5 years. >> >You are not entitled to advise us on anything concerning Social Phobia >> >whether it’s about drugs or any other aspect of our crippling disorder. >> Could you explain why my posting upsets you so much? >> >Do us all a favour by subcribing to a group about Panic Disorder like >> >alt.support.anxiety-panic. >> I do and ASAPM. >> >Leave us alone. It’s bad enough suffering from Social Phobia without an >> >asshole like you with a filthy agenda messing us up passing off as >someone >> >who can help us here in alt.support.social-phobia. >> Would you like to talk about what you see as my agenda? I am >> interested, really. >> >Go somewhere else where you can gloat about others less fortunate than >> >yourself. >> I am sorry if you perceive me as gloating. I am not sure why. >> >I’m sick and tired of you popping up here on a regular basis because that >> >evil cocksucker, Doug, has finally figured out he serves no useful >purpose >> >in assp where he tries to pass himself off as a qualified pharmacist or >even >> >a psychiatrist. >> Believe me, Doug is not a pharmacist, nor a psychiatrist. However he >> does have SP, hence my appearance here to learn more about the >> disorder. >> >In other words, kiss your ass and swallow! >> I don’t think I have mentioned that I have a chronic back problem. I >> think such a contortion is beyond me. >Hello Meryl, >You must think that we are a bunch of soft headed morons. >I don’t believe a single word word you say. Leave our group. You do not >belong here. You made your entrance when you told us what a kind loving man >Doug was. We now know otherwise. That is when you should have left. >Doug has destroyed our group when it became obvious to him that he could no >longer play the role of father figure to the group dominating and infecting >the group by trying to write in a calm measured way when there was a almost >uncontrollable rage seething inside him something we have all seen now in >him at long last. >The group barely functions now because the younger members of the group are >just too frightened to post the way they used to. I had to leave the group >because of Doug’s first attack on me and I was about to leave the group for >the second and last time when John Jay came to the rescue. When I returned >to the group for the second time hoping that I could post without feeling >fear Doug, this evil piece of shit, waited for just the right moment to >attack me for a second time. >Since he can no longer enjoy the feeling that he is the group’s wise old man >seeing himself a someone in his middle 50’s who has survived till now the >ravages of Social Phobia he set about creating so much fear in us, people >who already live in a constant state of fear, that he has single handedly >destroyed our group to the point where we are lucky if thre is even just one >post per day. This group is a sanctuary for the relatively small number of >people in the group who have really nowhere else to go. It was a precious >resource that I valued greatly. Now if things continue the way they are >going Usenet will close the group altogether and the great all knowing one, >Doug,  will be to blame for this. >I was 50 last July and as I took pains to explain to the younger members of >the group there is really nothing special about the way I write. The ability >to write is something that develops with age and all of the younger members >of the group will find that this is true when they get older. So they are >easily intimidated by the words of older people who don’t know that they >have nothing to be afraid of even if what Doug writes fills them with a >feeling of dread and foreboding. >I curse Doug for doing what he did to me and what he has done to this group. >If you want to learn about Social Phobia this is not the place to do it and >if you think I will accept that you are hear to learn more about Social >Phobia then you must think I’m the biggest fool you have ever come across. >I see Doug has posted a message below this and if this piece of shit thinks >I will read it then he too thinks I am a complete idiot. >I expect Usenet will close terminate the group soon if things don’t pick up >and trhe younger members of the group find the couage to start posting >again. I have encouraged everyone many times to post and not be afraid but >now thanks to Doug the level of fear is just too high. >Go away. You have nothing whatsoever to offer to this dying group. >Peter Nolan

Response:

On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 11:32:15 +1100, "Ben Johnson" <web…@hotmail.com

wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Have been seeing a psychiatrist for my Social Phobia / Depression since 2000 and have been on antidepressants since that time.   Zoloft 200mg/day for 2 years, and since then Efexor XR 150mg/day. I’ve cancelled my last appointments with him as I’m not interested / can’t be bothered to see him anymore – he just seems to be interested in prescribing drugs rather than fixing my problems. Zoloft seemed to work from about the 4th to 8th month point – but stopped working a couple of months after. Since then I’ve felt "flat" ever since and the Efexor hasn’t helped either. I have about 8 weeks of meds left. I’m worried about how to ease myself off these drugs. I know when I go without my Efexor for a couple of days I get quite bad mood-swings and it can be a little scary. Please help with some advice. Thanks, Ben

Hi Ben, I took Effexor for approximately a year and it worked similarly to Paxil, an ssri anti depressant, which is to say it helped to reduced my anxiety, but it couldn’t stop bouts of high anxiety or situational panic attacks.  It eventually pooped out and I ended up dropping it for another AD at that time.  I would recommend that you wean off this drug slowly, just as you would an ssri anti depressant.  This means gradually decreasing your dosage over at least a several week period. This lessens withdrawal and its side effects.  Last, but not least, talk to your doctor, if not the shrink, then your GP and get his input re. tapering off Effexor.  Whatever you do, don’t just stop taking it altogether because the side effects can be quite uncomfortable.  Best wishes. Doug D.

Response:

On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 15:49:43 +1100, "Ben Johnson" <web…@hotmail.com

wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

I came off Effexor recently, after only 75 mg/day for seven weeks.  My doc’s instructions were to take 37.5 mg daily for a week, then 37.5 mg every other day for 2 more weeks, then discontinue.  Those three weeks were a cakewalk, but were followed by 3-4 weeks of tachycardia, which my doc insists was an extremely atypical discontinuance reaction. Sorry I can’t help with the Zoloft. Figaro, It is Efexor I’m coming off (had been on Zoloft previous). I have the 150mg slow-release capsules (they’re full of little white balls). So I guess if I want to half the dosage it’s a case of emptying out a capsule down the sink and filling the empty shell with half the contents from another capsule.  That effectively gives me 2 x 75mg capsules – right ? Anyone else on these slow-release capsules?  Do you find they don’t digest properly? BJ

BJ, You can talk to your doctor about switching you over to standard Effexor pills and reducing your dosage with them until you’re off this med.  Your doc would know for sure, but I think I’ve read that you can’t halve or quarter time release capsules and achieve acceptable results. Doug D.

Response:

Meryl  <mapr…@ozemail.com.au

writes: I notice you spell Efexor the way we do in Oz. I have changed the spelling on ngs but it is interesting to see that it is not just spelt that way here.

Yep, in the UK there’s one ‘f’ in ‘Efexor’ but no f’in’ Wellbutrin. (Well, not as an AD. In the UK it’s only approved for smoking cessation.)

Response:

On 14 Dec 2003 09:21:06 +0000, Bruce Mardle <br…@algol.demon.co.uk

wrote:

Meryl  <mapr…@ozemail.com.au writes: I notice you spell Efexor the way we do in Oz. I have changed the spelling on ngs but it is interesting to see that it is not just spelt that way here. Yep, in the UK there’s one ‘f’ in ‘Efexor’ but no f’in’ Wellbutrin. (Well, not as an AD. In the UK it’s only approved for smoking cessation.)

OK. LOL I think Wellbutrin has another name here. I take it back (just checked). It is sold as an antidepressant but is also known as Zyban for smoking cessation. As for me, I am very grateful to have switched to Lexapro. It will be on the PBS in Feb, until then I have sample packs. Meryl

Response:

"Meryl" <mapr…@ozemail.com.au

wrote in message

news:onultvoa745lc6v2l4rf9cncvk7pa7sstd@4ax.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> On Sat, 13 Dec 2003 10:54:13 -0000, "Peter  Nolan" <nos…@nospam.com> > wrote: > >"Meryl" <mapr…@ozemail.com.au

wrote in message

> >news:ckdktvgei03hhs43p6kv1cc8107aomskd5@4ax.com… > >Hello Meryl, > >I see you are still flying the flag for Doug in our group. > I speak for myself. > >You have Panic Disorder by your own admission and do not belong in this > >group. > and depression and agoraphobia. I came here to learn about social > phobia so I could bring more understanding to my relationship. I did > ask posters if they objected. I don’t recall you objecting until now. > >You do not suffer from Social Phobia and therefore have no idea what you are

talking about. I was talking about tapering from Effexor. I know much about that. I was taking it for 5 years. You are not entitled to advise us on anything concerning Social Phobia whether it’s about drugs or any other aspect of our crippling disorder. Could you explain why my posting upsets you so much? Do us all a favour by subcribing to a group about Panic Disorder like alt.support.anxiety-panic. I do and ASAPM. Leave us alone. It’s bad enough suffering from Social Phobia without an asshole like you with a filthy agenda messing us up passing off as

someone

who can help us here in alt.support.social-phobia. Would you like to talk about what you see as my agenda? I am interested, really. Go somewhere else where you can gloat about others less fortunate than yourself. I am sorry if you perceive me as gloating. I am not sure why. I’m sick and tired of you popping up here on a regular basis because that evil cocksucker, Doug, has finally figured out he serves no useful

purpose

in assp where he tries to pass himself off as a qualified pharmacist or

even

a psychiatrist. Believe me, Doug is not a pharmacist, nor a psychiatrist. However he does have SP, hence my appearance here to learn more about the disorder. In other words, kiss your ass and swallow! I don’t think I have mentioned that I have a chronic back problem. I think such a contortion is beyond me.

Hello Meryl, You must think that we are a bunch of soft headed morons. I don’t believe a single word word you say. Leave our group. You do not belong here. You made your entrance when you told us what a kind loving man Doug was. We now know otherwise. That is when you should have left. Doug has destroyed our group when it became obvious to him that he could no longer play the role of father figure to the group dominating and infecting the group by trying to write in a calm measured way when there was a almost uncontrollable rage seething inside him something we have all seen now in him at long last. The group barely functions now because the younger members of the group are just too frightened to post the way they used to. I had to leave the group because of Doug’s first attack on me and I was about to leave the group for the second and last time when John Jay came to the rescue. When I returned to the group for the second time hoping that I could post without feeling fear Doug, this evil piece of shit, waited for just the right moment to attack me for a second time. Since he can no longer enjoy the feeling that he is the group’s wise old man seeing himself a someone in his middle 50’s who has survived till now the ravages of Social Phobia he set about creating so much fear in us, people who already live in a constant state of fear, that he has single handedly destroyed our group to the point where we are lucky if thre is even just one post per day. This group is a sanctuary for the relatively small number of people in the group who have really nowhere else to go. It was a precious resource that I valued greatly. Now if things continue the way they are going Usenet will close the group altogether and the great all knowing one, Doug,  will be to blame for this. I was 50 last July and as I took pains to explain to the younger members of the group there is really nothing special about the way I write. The ability to write is something that develops with age and all of the younger members of the group will find that this is true when they get older. So they are easily intimidated by the words of older people who don’t know that they have nothing to be afraid of even if what Doug writes fills them with a feeling of dread and foreboding. I curse Doug for doing what he did to me and what he has done to this group. If you want to learn about Social Phobia this is not the place to do it and if you think I will accept that you are hear to learn more about Social Phobia then you must think I’m the biggest fool you have ever come across. I see Doug has posted a message below this and if this piece of shit thinks I will read it then he too thinks I am a complete idiot. I expect Usenet will close terminate the group soon if things don’t pick up and trhe younger members of the group find the couage to start posting again. I have encouraged everyone many times to post and not be afraid but now thanks to Doug the level of fear is just too high. Go away. You have nothing whatsoever to offer to this dying group. Peter Nolan

Response:

On Sat, 13 Dec 2003 10:54:13 -0000, "Peter  Nolan" <nos…@nospam.com

wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

"Meryl" <mapr…@ozemail.com.au wrote in message news:ckdktvgei03hhs43p6kv1cc8107aomskd5@4ax.com… Hello Meryl, I see you are still flying the flag for Doug in our group. You have Panic Disorder by your own admission and do not belong in this group. You do not suffer from Social Phobia and therefore have no idea what you are talking about. You are not entitled to advise us on anything concerning Social Phobia whether it’s about drugs or any other aspect of our crippling disorder. Do us all a favour by subcribing to a group about Panic Disorder like alt.support.anxiety-panic. Leave us alone. It’s bad enough suffering from Social Phobia without an asshole like you with a filthy agenda messing us up passing off as someone who can help us here in alt.support.social-phobia. Go somewhere else where you can gloat about others less fortunate than yourself. I’m sick and tired of you popping up here on a regular basis because that evil cocksucker, Doug, has finally figured out he serves no useful purpose in assp where he tries to pass himself off as a qualified pharmacist or even a psychiatrist.

Peter, I haven’t had time to post here for some time now because I took a job about 2 months ago working as a consultant.  I was very fortunate in having a friend who also does consulting work in my field, offered me work, and provides accommodation for my sp when it gets to be too much. The work will eventually ease up and I’ll return on at least a semi regular basis to this group.  I must say that for someone who’s cried crocodile tears for months about being personally attacked once or twice, you certainly don’t have any qualms about attacking others yourself.  And vulgar to boot. To set the record straight, I’ve never, ever tried to pass myself off as a qualified pharmacist or a psychiatrist.  I offer advice based on experience with my own sp and from research I’ve done over the years, but I’ve frequently made it clear that I have no professional credentials in this area. You might consider taking a long walk and trying to work some of your anger off. Doug D. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

In other words, kiss your ass and swallow! Peter Nolan.

Response:

Meryl  <mapr…@ozemail.com.au

writes: On 13 Dec 2003 10:32:15 +0000, Bruce Mardle <br…@algol.demon.co.uk wrote: . For the first couple of weeks, I’d cry ‘at the drop of a hat’, which was odd cos I usually wasn’t feeling particularly sad. Was it depression? When that happens with me it is normally an indicator of depression.

Maybe, but on balance I’ve been happier since I stopped taking venlafaxine. I think I’ve been suffering from social phobia for the past 23 years, and mild depression for most of that time. The various healthcare people I’ve had peering at me over the past 3 years seem to agree with the former, but keep changing their mind about the latter.

I had lots of gastric problems, still have weeks later but I suspect that Lexapro might be a factor. I deal with the symptoms and I am grateful that my depression is alleviated.

Who designed this crazy system where 1 neurotransmitter is involved in both mood and digestion? I think we should sue.

Effexor can affect sleep. I had insomnia at first but it passed.

In my case, I had the same screwy (lack of) sleep pattern on Efexor as off it, but didn’t feel dopey most of the time until I started. (The only time I’ve had a normal sleep pattern in the past 2 years was when I was on mirtazapine.)

I guess I responded as I did because I have dreadful memories of going through withdrawal cold turkey from 150 mg to 0. I had been admitted to hospital and was on nil by mouth. Thankfully they relented and allowed me a capsule after 60 hours. I was on IV Diazepam at the time.

Eek!

Response:

On 13 Dec 2003 13:26:16 +0000, Bruce Mardle <br…@algol.demon.co.uk

wrote: >Meryl  <mapr…@ozemail.com.au> writes: >> On 13 Dec 2003 10:32:15 +0000, Bruce Mardle <br…@algol.demon.co.uk

>> wrote: >> >. For the first couple of weeks, I’d cry ‘at the drop of a hat’, which >> >was odd cos I usually wasn’t feeling particularly sad. >> Was it depression? When that happens with me it is normally an >> indicator of depression. >Maybe, but on balance I’ve been happier since I stopped taking >venlafaxine. I think I’ve been suffering from social phobia for the >past 23 years, and mild depression for most of that time. The various >healthcare people I’ve had peering at me over the past 3 years seem to >agree with the former, but keep changing their mind about the latter.

I was diagnosed with Panic Disorder and mild Agoraphobia in 1995. The depression diagnosis came in 1998 and my pdoc diagnoses it as secondary to the anxiety. My depression was recently upgraded from mild to major.

I had lots of gastric problems, still have weeks later but I suspect that Lexapro might be a factor. I deal with the symptoms and I am grateful that my depression is alleviated. Who designed this crazy system where 1 neurotransmitter is involved in both mood and digestion? I think we should sue.

A class action perhaps?

Effexor can affect sleep. I had insomnia at first but it passed. In my case, I had the same screwy (lack of) sleep pattern on Efexor as off it, but didn’t feel dopey most of the time until I started. (The only time I’ve had a normal sleep pattern in the past 2 years was when I was on mirtazapine.)

My sleeping pattern has been fine for he past few months. I don’t know why it changed but I am grateful. I notice you spell Efexor the way we do in Oz. I have changed the spelling on ngs but it is interesting to see that it is not just spelt that way here.

I guess I responded as I did because I have dreadful memories of going through withdrawal cold turkey from 150 mg to 0. I had been admitted to hospital and was on nil by mouth. Thankfully they relented and allowed me a capsule after 60 hours. I was on IV Diazepam at the time. Eek!

It was truly terrible. I was an emergency admission with a perforated oesophagus. I discovered that surgeons know nothing about psychiatric medications. The psych registrar was not working on the weekend (cost-cutting). They could not contact my psychiatrist. I had to try and be assertive to even get the correct dose of diazepam. They had converted Xanax to diazepam incorrectly. I could have had seizures. Still that is in the past. My psychiatrist has told me that if I ever find I need an emergency admission again to go straight to a private emergency hospital. Our public system is grossly underfunded:( Meryl

Response:

On Sat, 13 Dec 2003 10:54:13 -0000, "Peter  Nolan" <nos…@nospam.com

wrote:

"Meryl" <mapr…@ozemail.com.au wrote in message news:ckdktvgei03hhs43p6kv1cc8107aomskd5@4ax.com… Hello Meryl, I see you are still flying the flag for Doug in our group.

I speak for myself.

You have Panic Disorder by your own admission and do not belong in this group.

and depression and agoraphobia. I came here to learn about social phobia so I could bring more understanding to my relationship. I did ask posters if they objected. I don’t recall you objecting until now.

You do not suffer from Social Phobia and therefore have no idea what you are talking about.

I was talking about tapering from Effexor. I know much about that. I was taking it for 5 years.

You are not entitled to advise us on anything concerning Social Phobia whether it’s about drugs or any other aspect of our crippling disorder.

Could you explain why my posting upsets you so much?

Do us all a favour by subcribing to a group about Panic Disorder like alt.support.anxiety-panic.

I do and ASAPM.

Leave us alone. It’s bad enough suffering from Social Phobia without an asshole like you with a filthy agenda messing us up passing off as someone who can help us here in alt.support.social-phobia.

Would you like to talk about what you see as my agenda? I am interested, really.

Go somewhere else where you can gloat about others less fortunate than yourself.

I am sorry if you perceive me as gloating. I am not sure why.

I’m sick and tired of you popping up here on a regular basis because that evil cocksucker, Doug, has finally figured out he serves no useful purpose in assp where he tries to pass himself off as a qualified pharmacist or even a psychiatrist.

Believe me, Doug is not a pharmacist, nor a psychiatrist. However he does have SP, hence my appearance here to learn more about the disorder.

In other words, kiss your ass and swallow!

I don’t think I have mentioned that I have a chronic back problem. I think such a contortion is beyond me. Meryl

Response:

On 13 Dec 2003 10:32:15 +0000, Bruce Mardle <br…@algol.demon.co.uk

wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Meryl  <mapr…@ozemail.com.au> writes: >> On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 15:49:43 +1100, "Ben Johnson" <web…@hotmail.com

>> wrote: >> >I have the 150mg slow-release capsules (they’re full of little white balls). >> >So I guess if I want to half the dosage it’s a case of emptying out a >> >capsule down the sink and filling the empty shell with half the contents >> >from another capsule.  That effectively gives me 2 x 75mg capsules – right ? >> This does not sound a good idea. I believe it is very difficult to get >> an accurate dosage that way. >Could be, but I’d think that taking half the contents of a capsule one >day and half the next would give a more constant concentration in the >body (and thus less chance of withdrawal effects) than taking a whole >capsule every 2 days.

OK. Given what you have written later. I have heard of capsules being opened and mixed in juice but I have no experience of that.

You may be able to get Effexor tablets at 37.5mg. They exist, but taking one 75mg modified release capsule each day would give a more constant concentration than taking two 37.5mg immediate release tablets each day. Some ADs are available as a liquid, to make it easier to tweak dosage, but venlafaxine doesn’t seem to be one of them. Effexor XR also comes in 75 mg capsules. And 37.5mg capsules in the US (but not in the UK [sigh]).

I am in Oz. I’m not sure we have 37.5. I did take 75 XR alternate days. It was not fun.  I halved my

75mg/day for a fortnight by putting half of each 75mg capsule in some empty capsules (which I happened to have lying around!). I expect Ben could do away with the capsules if he could swallow the little balls, and not have them get stuck between his teeth. Wyeth say (in the prescribing info) that if one can’t swallow a capsule, it’s OK to mix the contents with a teaspoonful of applesauce(!) and swallow that.

Sounds like a plan.

Here’s my experience of stopping venlafaxine, for what it’s worth. I was on 75mg of the modified release stuff for 7 months up until 3 weeks ago when I stopped it cold (on my GPs suggestion… which seemed iffy, but I was so fed up with feeling dopey most of the time that I was beyond caring). Things I’ve noticed: . For the first couple of weeks, when my field of vision changed suddenly, I’d hear squelching noises for a second or 2. . For the first couple of weeks, I’d cry ‘at the drop of a hat’, which was odd cos I usually wasn’t feeling particularly sad.

Was it depression? When that happens with me it is normally an indicator of depression.

. I was going to say I’ve had slight diarrhoea since I stopped, but it’s probably more accurate to say that the constipation I’ve had for years and years has stopped!

I had lots of gastric problems, still have weeks later but I suspect that Lexapro might be a factor. I deal with the symptoms and I am grateful that my depression is alleviated.

. I’ve stopped gaining weight. (I gained 25lbs over the 7 months.)

Effexor worked well for me for years. It did not affect my weight just returned my mood to normal.

. I’m more energetic, but still dopey. The latter doesn’t surprise me, though, cos I’ve gone from sleeping a total of 8 hours a day (in short bursts) to sleeping an average of 5 hours a day (in 1 burst). This is frustrating. I’ve lost 2 years of university study due to dopiness which I attribute to meds. If I’m still dopey when my next course starts (February), I will *not* be a happy bunny!

Effexor can affect sleep. I had insomnia at first but it passed.

Anyone else on these slow-release capsules?  Do you find they don’t digest properly? I never had a problem with digesting the capsules.

I guess I responded as I did because I have dreadful memories of going through withdrawal cold turkey from 150 mg to 0. I had been admitted to hospital and was on nil by mouth. Thankfully they relented and allowed me a capsule after 60 hours. I was on IV Diazepam at the time. All the best, Meryl

Response:

"Meryl" <mapr…@ozemail.com.au

wrote in message

news:ckdktvgei03hhs43p6kv1cc8107aomskd5@4ax.com… Hello Meryl, I see you are still flying the flag for Doug in our group. You have Panic Disorder by your own admission and do not belong in this group. You do not suffer from Social Phobia and therefore have no idea what you are talking about. You are not entitled to advise us on anything concerning Social Phobia whether it’s about drugs or any other aspect of our crippling disorder. Do us all a favour by subcribing to a group about Panic Disorder like alt.support.anxiety-panic. Leave us alone. It’s bad enough suffering from Social Phobia without an asshole like you with a filthy agenda messing us up passing off as someone who can help us here in alt.support.social-phobia. Go somewhere else where you can gloat about others less fortunate than yourself. I’m sick and tired of you popping up here on a regular basis because that evil cocksucker, Doug, has finally figured out he serves no useful purpose in assp where he tries to pass himself off as a qualified pharmacist or even a psychiatrist. In other words, kiss your ass and swallow! Peter Nolan.

Response:

Question:

Hi, I would like to know if taking HGH drugs can stimulate growth when one is already 22 (male)?

NO.  After the growth areas in the bones have closed off, no further height can be achieved.   Tsu Dho Nimh A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.

Response:

I would like to know if taking HGH drugs can stimulate growth when one is already 22 (male)? Only if your growth plates haven’t already closed. — | Microsoft: "A reputation for releasing inferior software will make | | it more difficult for a software vendor to induce customers to pay | | for new products or new versions of existing products."            |

What about DHEA  Is it good for all problems?

Response:

I would like to know if taking HGH drugs can stimulate growth when one is already 22 (male)? Only if your growth plates haven’t already closed. What about DHEA  Is it good for all problems?

If you have a seratonin deficiency caused by low DHEA, and assuming that a reasonable amount makes it through the digestive system and blood-brain barrier, then it could do you a lot of good. — | Microsoft: "A reputation for releasing inferior software will make | | it more difficult for a software vendor to induce customers to pay | | for new products or new versions of existing products."            |

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I would like to know if taking HGH drugs can stimulate growth when one is already 22 (male)? Only if your growth plates haven’t already closed.

Can I get this tested, e.g. by my physician?

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What about DHEA  Is it good for all problems?

What is DHEA compared with HGH?

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I would like to know if taking HGH drugs can stimulate growth when one is already 22 (male)? NO.  After the growth areas in the bones have closed off, no further height can be achieved.  

Okay, say that is the case (they have closed off). Would it cause negative effects etc. when I took HGH or DHEA? What would be better for "testing", HGH or DHEA or both? And: When will be the time to determine if it works or not?

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I would like to know if taking HGH drugs can stimulate growth when one is already 22 (male)? NO.  After the growth areas in the bones have closed off, no further height can be achieved.   Okay, say that is the case (they have closed off). Would it cause negative effects etc. when I took HGH or DHEA?

Mucking around with hormones is not a good idea.  Also true HGH is a very expensive injectible presctiption-only substance, not something you can buy retail.   It sounds like you are a short 22-year old male who wants to be taller.  Unfortunately, genetics and nutritional status during childhood and adolescence have almost complete control over height.   Tsu Dho Nimh A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.

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I would like to know if taking HGH drugs can stimulate growth when one is already 22 (male)? Only if your growth plates haven’t already closed. Can I get this tested, e.g. by my physician?

X-rays would show whether or not the long bones had active growth plates or not.   Tsu Dho Nimh A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.

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I would like to know if taking HGH drugs can stimulate growth when one is already 22 (male)? Only if your growth plates haven’t already closed. Can I get this tested, e.g. by my physician?

Yup.  One of the 18yo boys was having some joint pain recently, and since they’ve been slow growing (and are still a bit shorter than their father) we thought maybe it was a late growth spurt causing something like Osgood Schlatter’s Disease. Nope.  The orthopod reported that the growth plates were *almost* closed. — | Microsoft: "A reputation for releasing inferior software will make | | it more difficult for a software vendor to induce customers to pay | | for new products or new versions of existing products."            |

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Hi, I would like to know if taking HGH drugs can stimulate growth when one is already 22 (male)? Manuel

Hi Manuel- I personally grew 2 inches at age 30 as a result of heavy therapy which cleared out some difficult childhood trauma. HGH (whether injectable, releaser or homeopathic) has NOT had very good results with people like yourself. But if for years you have felt yourself to be small, short, unhappy about your height, etc; there is a possibility (my GUESS would be about 3%-10% chance) that HGH might do something for your height partly because of psychological reasons. Good luck. Thayer Thayer White MA MFT http://www.helpself.com http://www.psychologyhelp.com http://www.hghcompany.com

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Hi, I would like to know if taking HGH drugs can stimulate growth when one is already 22 (male)? Manuel

Response:

I would like to know if taking HGH drugs can stimulate growth when one is already 22 (male)?

Only if your growth plates haven’t already closed. — | Microsoft: "A reputation for releasing inferior software will make | | it more difficult for a software vendor to induce customers to pay | | for new products or new versions of existing products."            |

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Question:

Just cuprous?????? 225mg daily here??? 12 weeks your turn…..

Response:

Just cuprous?????? 225mg daily here??? 12 weeks your turn…..

375mg….too many weeks to count…. I am more myself in Solitude. For in solitude I am myself.                            -Melia Benjamin (c)August 2000

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The big question is…is it working? I just started and I wonder what I’m

After like one or two weeks on it, I noticed myself getting a little antsy and wanting to do something, but I still felt down and didn’t enjoy anything. That was kind of wierd, but the next week the other half got better too. I couldn’t sleep right though, and I twitched/spasmed a fair amount in my sleep, (no other side effects though–oh, except I often wake up from dreams totally soaked in sweat, and I mean whole-body damp spot here) so I started taking a little dose of trazodone each night before bed. That combination worked really really well for quite a while.   Several months later I really didn’t feel like I was getting much from it anymore. I also started feeling more and more drugged/groggy in the morning and found out that I no longer needed the trazodone to sleep (ie it didn’t seem to have worn off by morning). We increased the effexor dose, and I seemed to get worse (especially sleeping a lot) so I brought the dose back down, and also tried taking it before bed (since, heck, it seemed to be making me sleep). That actually helped. Currently, I’m taking effexor before bed and welbutrin in the morning and afternoon. I still twitch a lot, especially before I wake up–I think maybe it would be best to take the effexor like 4 hours before waking instead of before bed, but I can’t really manage that… I’m still far from the best I felt on the effexor, though.   My wife’s also taking effexor now, and it has helped her quite a bit, although she has only been on it a few months, so I don’t know if it will change.   By the way: you _really_ do have to take it at the same time every day.   There have even been times where I’m pretty sure it needed to be taken with food to work well.  Different for every person, though…   —     Robert Braddock    

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225mg for months upon months mixed with buspar and tamazepam. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Just cuprous?????? 225mg daily here??? 12 weeks your turn…..

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The big question is…is it working?  I just started and I wonder what I’m in for. "Iron rusts from disuse, stagnant water loses its purity, and in cold weather becomes frozen, even so does inaction sap the vigor of the mind."   –   Leonardo Da Vinci, 1452-1519

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I was on it at 150….I feel like a wimp.. been off it for about a month and a half….not easy…that’s all I can say. Jen And there was much rejoicing,     yaaaaaaaayyyyyyy. "My head won’t leave my head alone" -Dave Matthews band

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Good question..sometimes it feels it is and other times nothing? I guess that’s why the increases?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The big question is…is it working?  I just started and I wonder what I’m in for. "Iron rusts from disuse, stagnant water loses its purity, and in cold weather becomes frozen, even so does inaction sap the vigor of the mind."   –   Leonardo Da Vinci, 1452-1519

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Hi Glen, is that effexor xr???  do you have any problems with fatigue? thx – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Just cuprous?????? 225mg daily here??? 12 weeks your turn….. Steady at 335 — all I can handle <:= Glen

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Question:

I wrote a previous post but have not seen it here yet.  I am going to post again. The autoimmune diseases are another class of diseases where the allopaths have no idea of what

Question:

I have just been put on Wellbutrin SR 150 mgs twice a day (morning and night) for ADD and depression symptoms(diagnosed 4 weeks ago).  I tried Ritalin, but it made depression worse, so now I have been on Wellbutrin for 3 days.  My depression is no better and I seem to be lightheaded (in a daze). My son, age 7 (ADHD/ODD/Depression) has also been put on Wellbutrin 75 mgs twice a day, he has been on it three days and does not show much improvement with Depression. He seems to be going around in a daze, but still very emotional.  He is also on Ritalin and Clonidine. He was weaned off Paxil a week ago. Can anyone tell me if this effect of Wellbutrin is common (the glazed look)? Does this wear off??  When does Wellbutrin start to really help??  Also, my son’s appetite has been effected and he does not need that.  He is already underweight. Is the appetite suppression temporary, or a long term effect of medication?  Also, when does the jitteryness and agitation go away?  My son has had an hour and a half of that to deal with at school before he is able to calm down.  The teacher is beside herself during that time. If any of you can help us, I would appreciate it.   Thanks. Penzack

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My understanding from everything I have read and talked to others is fogginess in the head is common and can take up to 2 weeks for the body to adjust to it. The appetite is probably the Ritalin.  That is a normal side effect.  My son has this too, but the Clonadine he takes at nite works well and I let him eat alot then.  He is 7 lbs. underweight. Regina … – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can anyone tell me if this effect of Wellbutrin is common (the glazed look)? Does this wear off??  When does Wellbutrin start to really help??  Also, my son’s appetite has been effected and he does not need that.  He is already underweight. Is the appetite suppression temporary, or a long term effect of medication?  Also, when does the jitteryness and agitation go away?  My son has had an hour and a half of that to deal with at school before he is able to calm down.  The teacher is beside herself during that time. If any of you can help us, I would appreciate it. Thanks. Penzack

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Hi Penzack: I’ve been on Wellbutrin, and Dexedrine spansule ( long acting ) for six months, and haven’t encountered the side-effects you describe. Wellbutrin takes seven days to build up the blood levels to be effective. One possibility, might be simple anxiety ( that sounds sick ) but anxiety has a way of producing physical symptoms. The wellbutrin has actually helped me to reduce my anxiety. Let me know if I can be of more help. Regards, David. I have just been put on Wellbutrin SR 150 mgs twice a day (morning and

night)

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Can anyone tell me if this effect of Wellbutrin is common (the glazed look)? Does this wear off??  When does Wellbutrin start to really help??  Also, my son’s appetite has been effected and he does not need that.  He is already underweight. Is the appetite suppression temporary, or a long term effect of medication?  Also, when does the jitteryness and agitation go away?  My son has had an hour and a half of that to deal with at school before he is able to calm down.  The teacher is beside herself during that time.

I didn’t take Wellbutrin, my son did.  All I can tell you is it takes time to build up in your system.  The psych said up to four weeks. Mark settled down after a few weeks.  We did find, however, after long term use (two years) Wellbutrin seemed to bring out an argumentative, agressive streak in him.  We had to take him off of it.  He’s the dreamy, inattentive ADHD type, with some depression (although that has thankfully begun to lift, I think with maturity.  He’s beginning to gain some control over his own life, and he’s happier for it.  He’s 18 now) — Ann Illegitimi non Carborundum annbal*at*thecia*dot*net

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Different people have different responses.  It often takes Wellbutrin a while to show any significant benefit–I’ve been on it 4 months now and I’m still seeing changes. I _wish_ Wellbutrin suppressed _my_ appetite.  On Ritalin, before it quit working for me, I managed to lose something like 30 pounds.  Since I’ve been on Wellbutrin I’ve gained that back and maybe a wee bit more. — — –John Reply to jclarke at eye bee em dot net

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I have just been put on Wellbutrin SR 150 mgs twice a day (morning and night) for ADD and depression symptoms(diagnosed 4 weeks ago).  I tried Ritalin, but it made depression worse, so now I have been on Wellbutrin for 3 days.  My depression is no better and I seem to be lightheaded (in a daze). My son, age 7 (ADHD/ODD/Depression) has also been put on Wellbutrin 75 mgs twice a day, he has been on it three days and does not show much improvement with Depression. He seems to be going around in a daze, but still very emotional.  He is also on Ritalin and Clonidine. He was weaned off Paxil a week ago. Can anyone tell me if this effect of Wellbutrin is common (the glazed look)? Does this wear off??  When does Wellbutrin start to really help??  Also, my son’s appetite has been effected and he does not need that.  He is already underweight. Is the appetite suppression temporary, or a long term effect of medication?  Also, when does the jitteryness and agitation go away?  My son has had an hour and a half of that to deal with at school before he is able to calm down.  The teacher is beside herself during that time. If any of you can help us, I would appreciate it. Thanks. Penzack

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have just been put on Wellbutrin SR 150 mgs twice a day (morning and night) for ADD and depression symptoms(diagnosed 4 weeks ago).  I tried Ritalin, but it made depression worse, so now I have been on Wellbutrin for 3 days.  My depression is no better and I seem to be lightheaded (in a daze). My son, age 7 (ADHD/ODD/Depression) has also been put on Wellbutrin 75 mgs twice a day, he has been on it three days and does not show much improvement with Depression. He seems to be going around in a daze, but still very emotional.  He is also on Ritalin and Clonidine. He was weaned off Paxil a week ago. Can anyone tell me if this effect of Wellbutrin is common (the glazed look)? Does this wear off??  When does Wellbutrin start to really help??  Also, my son’s appetite has been effected and he does not need that.  He is already underweight. Is the appetite suppression temporary, or a long term effect of medication?  Also, when does the jitteryness and agitation go away? Thanks. Penzack

Hi, Just wanted to mention here that I am using Wellbutrin SR for smoking cessation.  I was to take 2 pills a day, but had to cut back to 1, as I was getting dizzy spells, and could not sleep at night.  As for my appetite, I am just the opposite, I am gaining too much weight. As for the glazed look, I felt dopey, not tired, but all in all it has helped me in my quest to stop smoking.

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You might want to check out this web page "http://www.mayohealth.org/usp/html/202098b.htm".  It’s a clinical trial overview of the drug.   I’ve been taking wellbutrin for only about 3 to 4 weeks.  When my dose was initially doubled up to 300 mg per day (in 2 doses) boy, did I get some un-nerving side-effects!  Heavy dissiness that would come in waves, feeling quite ‘out of it’, yet being more interactive with others.  Strange huh?  I also noticed that I was having trouble maintaining my tolerance level, ("snapping out" more easily) I believe that this was caused also by the cesasion of paxil over the last couple of weeks as well (withdraw simptoms).   I was also having a great deal of trouble sleeping through the night — 12 to 7, became 2 – 4.   I was very concerned about the side effects, especially the waves of dissiness.  They seemed almost like a rush that would make my nerves tingle and my eyes want to roll back in my head.  After discussing them with my doctor she cut me back to 1/2 doses. I am going to continue with the medication because of its reputation of becoming more effective with less noticeable side-effects as time goes on. If you are concerned by all means talk to your doctor, perhaps he/she may be able to suggest something to help him through this tough time.  I hope that your son (as well as myself) soon start to notice the more positive effects of Wellbutrin. Hang in there.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -You might want to check out this web page "http://www.mayohealth.org/usp/html/202098b.htm".  It’s a clinical trial overview of the drug.   I’ve been taking wellbutrin for only about 3 to 4 weeks.  When my dose was initially doubled up to 300 mg per day (in 2 doses) boy, did I get some un-nerving side-effects!  Heavy dissiness that would come in waves, feeling quite ‘out of it’, yet being more interactive with others.  Strange huh?  I also noticed that I was having trouble maintaining my tolerance level, ("snapping out" more easily) I believe that this was caused also by the cesasion of paxil over the last couple of weeks as well (withdraw simptoms). I was also having a great deal of trouble sleeping through the night — 12 to 7, became 2 – 4.   I was very concerned about the side effects, especially the waves of dissiness. They seemed almost like a rush that would make my nerves tingle and my eyes want to roll back in my head.  After discussing them with my doctor she cut me back to 1/2 doses. I am going to continue with the medication because of its reputation of becoming more effective with less noticeable side-effects as time goes on. If you are concerned by all means talk to your doctor, perhaps he/she may be able to suggest something to help him through this tough time.  I hope that your son (as well as myself) soon start to notice the more positive effects of Wellbutrin. Hang in there.

I am not against Wellbutrin, please don’t take this post that way. I just want to point out that Wellbutrin, like ANY medication or herbal supplement should be tested on you in low doses before you make a decision on whether it is for you. I nearly had a heart attack on 5mg of Wellbutrin.. because of an allergic reaction. My sister stopped eating altogether when they put her on it. Please, everyone, be safe. ~Wendy

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out: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have just been put on Wellbutrin SR 150 mgs twice a day (morning and night) for ADD and depression symptoms(diagnosed 4 weeks ago).  I tried Ritalin, but it made depression worse, so now I have been on Wellbutrin for 3 days.  My depression is no better and I seem to be lightheaded (in a daze). My son, age 7 (ADHD/ODD/Depression) has also been put on Wellbutrin 75 mgs twice a day, he has been on it three days and does not show much improvement with Depression. He seems to be going around in a daze, but still very emotional.  He is also on Ritalin and Clonidine. He was weaned off Paxil a week ago. Can anyone tell me if this effect of Wellbutrin is common (the glazed look)? Does this wear off??  When does Wellbutrin start to really help??  Also, my son’s appetite has been effected and he does not need that.  He is already underweight. Is the appetite suppression temporary, or a long term effect of medication?  Also, when does the jitteryness and agitation go away? Thanks. Penzack Hi, Just wanted to mention here that I am using Wellbutrin SR for smoking cessation.  I was to take 2 pills a day, but had to cut back to 1, as I was getting dizzy spells, and could not sleep at night.  As for my appetite, I am just the opposite, I am gaining too much weight. As for the glazed look, I felt dopey, not tired, but all in all it has helped me in my quest to stop smoking.

Wellbutrin was the first drug that I took for treatment of my ADD and depression. It worked pretty well in the short time that I took it – it really helped my concentration, and I liked the appetite suppression aspect of it since I’m overweight, but my body just couldn’t tolerate it. I got dizzy, sleepy yet hyper at the same time, nervous, shaky, headachey, and just a feeling of sickness and toxicity – a bad taste in my mouth. I put up with it for a while, tried cutting back the dosage, but it only kept getting worse. I think my body just wasn’t excreting it well. Wellbutrin is in a class by itself. It’s not like any other drug. From what I understand, it’s not a reuptake inhibitor, and they are unsure as to what exactly the action is that it takes to make seratonin, norepenephrin and dopamine more available. Although it’s classed as an antidepressant, it actually acts like a stimulant on the CNS. Personally I don’t do too well on stimulants. Low doses of caffiene and dexedrine, ritalin, etc, don’t have much effect. Higher doses start to have a beneficial, calming effect, helping my concentration, etc, but then after a time I start to get sick, dizzy, nervous, headachey, etc etc, and the symptoms get progressively worse, as if it’s building up in my body and not being excreted, and making me sick. But in general I think I have a pretty sensitive system. In all the drugs I’ve tried since (Nortriptaline, Prozac, Effexor) I’ve only ever needed the lowest dose of the drug for effectiveness. I know people who take Wellbutrin and do great on it. I have a young cousin who takes it for ADD and it has had no negative side effects. My ex-husband takes it for alcohol addiction, and he said the only side effect was the loss of appetite. I would say that if the bad side effects, the dizziness and such continue, and you don’t seem to be getting any positive effects, then talk to your doctor about switching to something else. There are many other drugs out there you can try if Wellbutrin doesn’t work. wherever, at primenet dot com wherever you are…there you go.

Response:

I have a 7yr old child who is on Ritalin, Clonidine and Wellbutrin 150mg SR once daily.  It will take up to 4 weeks before your body starts to effectively absorb the medication and then you will start to see results. it is a slow progress, you can’t expect to notice a difference in just a few days.  Just don’t give up.

s.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My 7 yr old was put on Wellbutrin 100mg a day.  We have seen great improvement.  He was taking Effexor for a while and I never did see the change.  With the Wellbutrin, it took probably 1-2 weeks to see a difference.  My son was talking about suicide and how everyone hated him and he couldn’t do anything right.  On the Wellbutrin, I haven’t heard hardly any depressive comments.  It’s been great.  But if you stick with it a while and you can’t tell a difference, try something else.  It’s my opinion that medications effect everyone differently. I have just been put on Wellbutrin SR 150 mgs twice a day (morning and night) for ADD and depression symptoms(diagnosed 4 weeks ago).  I tried Ritalin, but it made depression worse, so now I have been on Wellbutrin for 3 days. My depression is no better and I seem to be lightheaded (in a daze). My son, age 7 (ADHD/ODD/Depression) has also been put on Wellbutrin 75 mgs twice a day, he has been on it three days and does not show much improvement with Depression. He seems to be going around in a daze, but still very emotional.  He is also on Ritalin and Clonidine. He was weaned off Paxil a week ago. Can anyone tell me if this effect of Wellbutrin is common (the glazed look)? Does this wear off??  When does Wellbutrin start to really help??  Also, my son’s appetite has been effected and he does not need that.  He is already underweight. Is the appetite suppression temporary, or a long term effect of medication?  Also, when does the jitteryness and agitation go away?  My son has had an hour and a half of that to deal with at school before he is able to calm down.  The teacher is beside herself during that time. If any of you can help us, I would appreciate it. Thanks. Penzack

Response:

My 7 yr old was put on Wellbutrin 100mg a day.  We have seen great improvement.  He was taking Effexor for a while and I never did see the change.  With the Wellbutrin, it took probably 1-2 weeks to see a difference.  My son was talking about suicide and how everyone hated him and he couldn’t do anything right.  On the Wellbutrin, I haven’t heard hardly any depressive comments.  It’s been great.  But if you stick with it a while and you can’t tell a difference, try something else.  It’s my opinion that medications effect everyone differently. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I have just been put on Wellbutrin SR 150 mgs twice a day (morning and night) for ADD and depression symptoms(diagnosed 4 weeks ago).  I tried Ritalin, but it made depression worse, so now I have been on Wellbutrin for 3 days.  My depression is no better and I seem to be lightheaded (in a daze). My son, age 7 (ADHD/ODD/Depression) has also been put on Wellbutrin 75 mgs twice a day, he has been on it three days and does not show much improvement with Depression. He seems to be going around in a daze, but still very emotional.  He is also on Ritalin and Clonidine. He was weaned off Paxil a week ago. Can anyone tell me if this effect of Wellbutrin is common (the glazed look)? Does this wear off??  When does Wellbutrin start to really help??  Also, my son’s appetite has been effected and he does not need that.  He is already underweight. Is the appetite suppression temporary, or a long term effect of medication?  Also, when does the jitteryness and agitation go away?  My son has had an hour and a half of that to deal with at school before he is able to calm down.  The teacher is beside herself during that time. If any of you can help us, I would appreciate it.   Thanks. Penzack

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Question:

The doctor tells me it takes time for the meds to start to work, but after taking them for about 10 days I still am waiting for results.  

All the anti-depressents, incl. Zoloft, take 4 to 8 weeks to become fully effective. The reason is that they work by adjusting the number of receptors for one or more neurotransmitters and this takes time. As you’ve been on the 50mg. dose for a while now it may be best to stick with it rather than reduce to 25mg. The worst is probably nearly over. Ian    Ian<<atdragoncon<dotnet

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hello there… Me too on Zoloft and Xanax… Increasing to the 200Mg mark in a week I get the shakes every day about an Hour after I take the Zoloft ….I take a Xanax.5Mg at the same time……It helps. I also try to stay active as this helps to keep my mind on the Job at hand.I can get the kids up and go to work and nobody calls 911..LOL Hang in there and let us Know your progress    J

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I have been taking inc.amts (as prescribed by my doctor) of xanax (0.5mg  3 to 4 times a day) and zoloft (50mg a day) for newly diagnosed panic/anxiety disorder.  So far, I  only have brief periods of  lessened anxiety, but alot of jitters and shakiness, and I keep waiting for the next attack to come.  Does anyone have any similar experiences with these meds?  The doctor tells me it takes time for the meds to start to work, but after taking them for about 10 days I still am waiting for results.  I really appreciate any and all feedback.  Thanks again.

Response:

I have been taking inc.amts (as prescribed by my doctor) of xanax (0.5mg  3 to 4 times a day) and zoloft (50mg a day) for newly diagnosed panic/anxiety disorder.  So far, I  only have brief periods of  lessened anxiety, but alot of jitters and shakiness, and I keep waiting for the next attack to come.  Does anyone have any similar experiences with these meds?  The doctor tells me it takes time for the meds to start to work, but after taking them for about 10 days I still am waiting for results.  I really appreciate any and all feedback. Thanks again.

That’s gonna be  starting next week.  I hope I don’t have the jitters.  I’m really scared in that respect.  But if it helps in the long run,lmk. I just hope that I can find a med combo that will make me a confident person again. Foote

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have been taking inc.amts (as prescribed by my doctor) of xanax (0.5mg  3 to 4 times a day) and zoloft (50mg a day) for newly diagnosed panic/anxiety disorder.  So far, I  only have brief periods of  lessened anxiety, but alot of jitters and shakiness, and I keep waiting for the next attack to come.  Does anyone have any similar experiences with these meds?  The doctor tells me it takes time for the meds to start to work, but after taking them for about 10 days I still am waiting for results.  I really appreciate any and all feedback. Thanks again. That’s gonna be  starting next week.  I hope I don’t have the jitters.  I’m really scared in that respect.  But if it helps in the long run,lmk. I just hope that I can find a med combo that will make me a confident person again. Foote

Hi there: I just wanted to add, I am a Zoloft/Xanax user too. To be honest, now I don’t want to interfere with what your doc said, but my doc started me off on 25mg, and told me to break the caplet open to halve it if needed, and then, again if needed, build up to 50 mg. So, it IS your body, and you might want to consider breaking your caplet into 25mg to start off with. Now, I take this at bedtime, along with 1mg of Xanax. I take 25mg of benadryl (prn) if I have a hard time getting to sleep. You also might find Zoloft gives you heart-burn, as it did me, and upset stomach. My doc just told me to take pepcid or zantac, which I have done, and it works just great. BTW, Zoloft is available in 25mg capsules, so if you find the 25mg works best for you, stick with it. My problem was I just kep’t on increasing my dose of ZOloft, up to 200mg a day, and I felt like a miserable zombie. Anyways, YMMV, and discuss any results or problems with your doctor. BTW, I would save the extra Xanax for the next day…if you run into some stressors or something, take it once or twice…depending on your day. Just make sure you get that 1mg at bedtime:-) Peace and best wishes.. James (3rd year Zoloft user (major)..hahah:) — "All of us get lost in the darkness… Dreamers learn to stear by the stars.." Neil Peart, Rush, "The Pass"

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Question:

Anyone have any strange side effects from Zoloft?  I started to have TMJ pain/tension after taking it for under a week.  Teeth hurt too.  My doctor said this was not caused by the drug but when I stopped taking it, the symptoms disappeared (after about 3 months).  Maybe it causes teeth clenching?  I never felt any less depressed after taking it for 10 dayes. Actually felt like a zombie.

Hi Will,         I never had TMJ while taking Zoloft, but I did have other ill effects.  My mother recently did too.  From our experiences, I’d say it’s a pretty good guess that what happened to you may well have been from the drug.  While Zoloft seems to work well for some people, IMO the medical community has a ways to go toward identifying & understanding its range of adverse reactions.  Hope these anecdotes help:         I tried switching from Nardil to Zoloft a few years ago.  Took it for about a month, I think… hard to remember as I was in a complete fog during the entire period.  Anyway, it made me a zombie as well – I felt no trace of humanity in or around me while on it.   It virtually left me unable to *feel* anything at all, or to *think*, for that matter.           It was when I stopped taking it to go back on Nardil, and was waiting the required period for it to clear out of my system, that some really bizarre and frightening symptoms appeared.  I had intense, violent hallucinations that scared the bejeezus out of me   (the *only* hallucinations I’ve ever had, BTW … well, that is if you don’t count the effects of certain substances I ingested in younger days 8- ).  I also was unbelievably anxious during this withdrawal period, which lasted about a week (I think) but felt like an eternity.         My mother, who’s in her 70s, was prescribed Zoloft for depression a month ago by her cardiologist.  She stopped taking it after three weeks because it induced the same zombie effect in her.  She had no withdrawal symptoms at all.  Apparently her depression was transient because it seems to have subsided as well.  Yesterday she felt like getting off the couch and going *out* for the first time since the depression hit.  I took her shopping and she did just fine.         Glad your TMJ and teeth pain stopped.  And I hope you’ve found another med that works better for you.  Take care. Redroad — For more information about this service, send e-mail to:

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I have heard of this phenomena before, may have been good that you dc’d Zoloft. Randy.

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Anyone have any strange side effects from Zoloft?  I started to have TMJ pain/tension after taking it for under a week.  Teeth hurt too.  My doctor said this was not caused by the drug but when I stopped taking it, the symptoms disappeared (after about 3 months).  Maybe it causes teeth clenching?  I never felt any less depressed after taking it for 10 dayes. Actually felt like a zombie.

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Anyone have any strange side effects from Zoloft?  I started to have TMJ pain/tension after taking it for under a week.  Teeth hurt too.  My doctor said this was not caused by the drug but when I stopped taking it, the symptoms disappeared (after about 3 months).  Maybe it causes teeth clenching?  I never felt any less depressed after taking it for 10 dayes. Actually felt like a zombie.

S’not weird, if Zoloft is anything like paxil. And they are both SSRIs. I have TMJ (from teeth clenching) and it got, oh, (this is a rough estimate) about a BAZILLION times worse when I started the paxil. My dear (well, sometimes dear) pdoc said it was a not common but not rare side effect. So it sounds like yer pdoc is a quack, OR Zoloft and paxil are different. But I do think they are pretty similar. Ten days really isn’t enough time to see if an AD is going to help, though if your jaw pain was unbearable… And when paxil worked for me, I felt like a zombie until I was put on a theraputic (heigh enough) dose. So if you feel like another go at it would help, there are plenty of ADs to try.  I hope you can find one that works, if it’s what you need. Good good luck, Bizzy Heather, if you were happy every day of your life, you wouldn’t be a human being. You’d be a game show host.         Veronica Sawyer, Heathers

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Anyone have any strange side effects from Zoloft?  I started to have TMJ pain/tension after taking it for under a week.  Teeth hurt too.  My doctor said this was not caused by the drug but when I stopped taking it, the symptoms disappeared (after about 3 months).  Maybe it causes teeth clenching?  I never felt any less depressed after taking it for 10 dayes. Actually felt like a zombie.

Usually it takes much longer than 10 days for it to have an effect. I wonder if the teeth-clenching had to do with some sort of sleep disruption from the drug — particularly if you were feeling like a zombie. Mike. — For more information about this service, send e-mail to:

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