Question:

No one understands that you simply can’t just dump a therapist (a good one) to run to another one.  I don’t know where I would begin or how I would start talking.  I would have to take all the notes on my visits and make tons of them myself and would need a full day visit just to get her acquainted with me. This sucks so much and I am so fucking angry.  No one cares.  I don’t understand but I guess it is "welcome to the world of HMO’s".  (our old insurance was great) Fucked up stupid assed lamo system.

It’s fucked all right.  I’m not in the same boat by any means.  My insurance changed this year also, but it turned out to be less money for more coverage.  Many other aren’t so fortunate. Use the anger.  Press your elected representatives to write laws instituting Medical Savings Accounts.  The benefits are numerous. You have your own account, protected by law.  This allows you to chose what coverage you need and who to buy it from.  You can buy a full plan, catastrophic coverage only, or no coverage at all – you simply pay the doctor with funds from the account. The account could also roll over year to year, adding any unused funds to the pool.  The whole thing could earn interest and grow a loittle more, or at least hedge against inflation. Your employer contributes towards your account at the same rate they would pay towards company group insurance.  But they save money because human resources no longer needs to supervise employee insurance plans  They simply provide the money as a tax exempt benefit, and the employee is responsible for the rest. But I’m not holding my breath.  Most people seem content to ask someone else to take care of them, and then spend all their time bitching about how bad they are being cared for.

Response:

I understand, Becky.  My pdoc just dropped out of my insurance plan.  I did not want to start over with another one.  I really, really like him. He is totally awesome. I am going to pay out of pocket to see him, and my PCP will take care of my meds.  But I don’t have to see my pdoc as often as a therapist, so I am going to try to swing it. I’m so sorry you have to face these kind of decisions. Wanda — Always interesting what is revealed about oneself when one guesses at another person’s motives.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have been seeing my therapist for about 4 years now.  We have a good relationship. Suddenly hubby’s boss changes the insurance on us and while all my other specialists and doctors are covered—-my therapist is not. It is such a crazy situation and I am winging out into left field.  I have been winging anyway—dissociation and black outs—-and need her and need to be able to see and talk to her.  She understands ME.  She knows most of everything there is to know about me.  I can’t even imagine starting with someone else. The insurance company does not understand this.  They have been giving us the run-a-round.  My therapist is trying to help but is getting no where either. Her visits are $80/45 minutes.  I would have to pay that and $20-30 ontop of that to get my bill paid down. No one understands that you simply can’t just dump a therapist (a good one) to run to another one.  I don’t know where I would begin or how I would start talking.  I would have to take all the notes on my visits and make tons of them myself and would need a full day visit just to get her acquainted with me. This sucks so much and I am so fucking angry.  No one cares.  I don’t understand but I guess it is "welcome to the world of HMO’s".  (our old insurance was great) Fucked up stupid assed lamo system. Becky who can’t shed tears but can sure go on a good rage…… "I have seen the sea when it is stormy and wild; when it is quiet and serene; when it is dark and moody. And in all its moods, I see myself."      -Martin Buxbaum

Response:

Does your husband’s employer offer —what’s it called — it’s that thing where they put aside part of his pay *pre-tax* into a medical/health account and you can draw from it within a particular time-period (usually a very strict calendar year) to pay your medical bills. No Wombn his employer doesn’t offer anything like that.  Either way it would probably be easier for us to start a savings account now in prepartion for next year.  Not a bad idea really.  <sigh  Maybe it would keep us ahead of the bill. Where do middle income folks go when they can’t afford insurance on their own and have to rely on their employer?  What do they do? You know the problem really is not to bad regarding the doctors it is regarding the Mental Health services in our country. No one wants to admit we are out here and that we deserve the benefits as everyone else has in seeing a specialized doctor. Because we are dealing with mental health we are put into whole other categories and over looked and railroaded into seeing the people that they handpick—not the folks that we have been with for years. I just fucking amazes me how they are able to get away with what they do not only in mental health issues but in other areas of health care. Hey it isn’t fair but then I learned from a little kid up that most things in life are never fair and nothing ever will be. Becky "I have seen the sea when it is stormy and wild; when it is quiet and serene; when it is dark and moody. And in all its moods, I see myself."      -Martin Buxbaum

Response:

Thank you Fiona…… Hugs….. Becky "I have seen the sea when it is stormy and wild; when it is quiet and serene; when it is dark and moody. And in all its moods, I see myself."      -Martin Buxbaum

Response:

Thanks Minx for caring. It is frustrating as well as infuriating. THESE people do not care. Hell I have to watch my prescriptions now because if the script is for 100+ tabs a month then the doctor has to call the insurance company and have it approved for that amount OR the doctor has to be very careful and make sure they give me the highest dose pill. All because my husband’s work wanted to save a few bucks. I know I know everyone is out for a buck these days.  So us poor folks get stuck up the ass in bills and debt. I am SO pissed off…… Becky Hugs Hugs… "I have seen the sea when it is stormy and wild; when it is quiet and serene; when it is dark and moody. And in all its moods, I see myself."      -Martin Buxbaum

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have been seeing my therapist for about 4 years now.  We have a good relationship. Suddenly hubby’s boss changes the insurance on us and while all my other specialists and doctors are covered—-my therapist is not. It is such a crazy situation and I am winging out into left field.  I have been winging anyway—dissociation and black outs—-and need her and need to be able to see and talk to her.  She understands ME.  She knows most of everything there is to know about me.  I can’t even imagine starting with someone else. The insurance company does not understand this.  They have been giving us the run-a-round.  My therapist is trying to help but is getting no where either. Her visits are $80/45 minutes.  I would have to pay that and $20-30 ontop of that to get my bill paid down. No one understands that you simply can’t just dump a therapist (a good one) to run to another one.  I don’t know where I would begin or how I would start talking.  I would have to take all the notes on my visits and make tons of them myself and would need a full day visit just to get her acquainted with me. This sucks so much and I am so fucking angry.  No one cares.  I don’t understand but I guess it is "welcome to the world of HMO’s".  (our old insurance was great) Fucked up stupid assed lamo system.

this is horrible. I feel furious just reading this.  It makes me sick.   I hate the insurance industry, I hate we have no socialized care, and I hate you have to go through this. becky, I hope you win this. I hope. minx — "I wouldn’t mind leaving myself behind if I could, but I don’t know the way out." — Elphaba, _Wicked_

Response:

<snip I wish I had a magic wand and could fix this for you Becky. I do have one possibility for you, does the insurance (HMO?) have an out-of-network rate? I know that my evil HMO pays a greater percentage or all of an "in-network" provider, but does pay something when I see an "out-of-network" provider. Of course, my HMO is so notorious around these parts that only two pdocs in reach of me are "in-network," my current pdoc described them as being one he wasn’t too sure of and the other he "wouldn’t let talk to my houseplants." Though this is also the same HMO that won’t pay my medication costs at the higher rate because I could have generic Paxil and Seroquel if I "really wanted them." Fiona — If we had no winter, the spring would not be so pleasant: if we did not sometimes taste the adversity, prosperity would not be so welcome.      – Anne Bradstreet, Meditations Divine and Moral, 1664

Response:

I have been seeing my therapist for about 4 years now.  We have a good relationship. Suddenly hubby’s boss changes the insurance on us and while all my other specialists and doctors are covered—-my therapist is not. It is such a crazy situation and I am winging out into left field.  I have been winging anyway—dissociation and black outs—-and need her and need to be able to see and talk to her.  She understands ME.  She knows most of everything there is to know about me.  I can’t even imagine starting with someone else. The insurance company does not understand this.  They have been giving us the run-a-round.  My therapist is trying to help but is getting no where either. Her visits are $80/45 minutes.  I would have to pay that and $20-30 ontop of that to get my bill paid down. No one understands that you simply can’t just dump a therapist (a good one) to run to another one.  I don’t know where I would begin or how I would start talking.  I would have to take all the notes on my visits and make tons of them myself and would need a full day visit just to get her acquainted with me. This sucks so much and I am so fucking angry.  No one cares.  I don’t understand but I guess it is "welcome to the world of HMO’s".  (our old insurance was great) Fucked up stupid assed lamo system. Becky who can’t shed tears but can sure go on a good rage…… "I have seen the sea when it is stormy and wild; when it is quiet and serene; when it is dark and moody. And in all its moods, I see myself."      -Martin Buxbaum

Response:

Question:

Howdy. I have a question.  I know from experience that exposure to a cat triggers a severe attack in me within an hour. I have an inhaler for these times. I am in the market for a home.  Should I even bother looking at the houses where cats are living?  I read on a couple web sites that within a few months, the allergen levels can be reduced to a non-harmful level.  Does anyone have experience with this?  I wonder what would have to be done – rip out all carpet, professional duct cleaning, etc.  Any help is appreciated – I’m missing out on some nice houses and want to know if I am being unrealistic.

Have the walls repainted, wash the curtains, and have the carpets professionally steam cleaned using the products that denature allergens. PS I can’t take meds b/c we’re thinking about becoming parents (I’m a woman! =)

Discuss this with your doctor.  They see this all the time and the combination of asthma meds and pregnancy is ‘routine’ to them. There is no ‘Army of One’ in the word: ‘Team’

Response:

Howdy. I have a question.  I know from experience that exposure to a cat triggers a severe attack in me within an hour Have the walls repainted, wash the curtains, and have the carpets professionally steam cleaned using the products that denature allergens.

I have a problem with this! I have read numerous accounts in this newsgroup where they paid a ‘Professional Carpet Cleaner’ to clean their carpets and use a so called product to eliminate allergies. Most have not met with success through this avenue, mostly because your average Carpet Cleaner is not an asthmatic nor a rocket scientist ( to put it mildly!), nor does it require any kind of training, just  a warm body and maybe a hustle attitude. Consequently, the average ‘behind the scenes’ experience that people have is that a Carpet Cleaner Guy will tell them they’ll take care of the allergy problem, then goes out and gets the Closest Shelf Product which happens to be for Dust Mites and uses it, and it does nothing for the Cat Allergen problem. However, the proper product is a Tannic Acid Solution at 3% which needs to be hand sprayed on the carpet on hands and knees…..no Carpet Cleaner guy is going to do this! You need to do it yourself!!! I steam cleaned my carpets 3 times myself to no avail, until I sprayed the Tannic Acid Solution, then that did a Big Trick!!

Response:

hi, we have a cat, and I am asthmatic. I used to get quite wheezy and needed my inhaler a lot when we lived in our last house. recently, we moved to London and our new house has no carpets at all, just wooden floors and tiles. The walls are painted – no wallpaper. since moving here, my asthma has improved beyond recognition. Now I only need my salbutamol inhaler before excercise and very occassionally when I feel a bit wheezy. I don’t think I ever want carpets again! Dan.

Response:

I am also very allergic to cats, so I can’t have one in my house. I had a cat the entire time I was growing up, but after 20 yrs, I had enough exposure to keep me from being in any house with cats. My last cat was outdoors only. And even with that, I had to take a shower when I went back in so I didn’t have any dander, saliva, etc. around me. However, once I was away from cats for a few years and have been using Serevent and Flovent during that time, I am having better luck. I agree with the carpet thing. I visited my sister a couple of years ago in her new house. It has no carpeting except in the bedrooms, and the sofa and chairs are leather. I was actually able to visit with her for most of the day. At least until the night that I could no longer resist her cat and he snuggled in my lap. Luckily I was staying at a hotel, so I was able to recuperate overnight. I didn’t take any more chances–just a pet and a rub here and there. In the past in her other houses, I was not able to spend more than an hour or so inside. And even then I still had problems while I was inside. I know that no carpets and less upholstery certainly helps. I can’t rely on that for my house, tho. Nothing works sufficiently to let me have another kitty of my own. I’ll just have to adore from afar… -Carly – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – hi, we have a cat, and I am asthmatic. I used to get quite wheezy and needed my inhaler a lot when we lived in our last house. recently, we moved to London and our new house has no carpets at all, just wooden floors and tiles. The walls are painted – no wallpaper. since moving here, my asthma has improved beyond recognition. Now I only need my salbutamol inhaler before excercise and very occassionally when I feel a bit wheezy. I don’t think I ever want carpets again! Dan.

Response:

My allergy to cats is exactly like yours. After an hour or so, I’m wheezing from which i can recover fairly easy if I get away and have a nights rest Give me 4-12hours or so of exposure  and I am a very sick puppy. It wouldnt matter if you bought a house that had cats as long as you get rid of the carpets and then perhaps painted the walls. As to the statement that the allergen only lasts 2-6 months or so…. Carpets!!! Other than that there is a way to treat the old carpets with a Tannic Acid Solution that you can make yourself that will denature the cat allergen……. if you want more info ….just ask. Its worked for me. Moreover, I wouldnt let the fact that there was cats there before dissuade my purchase unless tearing up the carpets was out of the question. I made the mistake of moving into a NO PETS apt. but failed to find out ahead of time that they had a longstanding PETS ALLOWED policy before I moved in. Consequently, my apt. was making me very sick each and every weekend….I finally sprayed the carpets and denatured them…. and it was a miracle cure!!! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Howdy. I have a question.  I know from experience that exposure to a cat triggers a severe attack in me within an hour. I have an inhaler for these times. I am in the market for a home.  Should I even bother looking at the houses where cats are living?  I read on a couple web sites that within a few months, the allergen levels can be reduced to a non-harmful level.  Does anyone have experience with this?  I wonder what would have to be done – rip out all carpet, professional duct cleaning, etc.  Any help is appreciated – I’m missing out on some nice houses and want to know if I am being unrealistic. PS I can’t take meds b/c we’re thinking about becoming parents (I’m a woman! =)

Response:

Howdy. I have a question.  I know from experience that exposure to a cat triggers a severe attack in me within an hour. I have an inhaler for these times. I am in the market for a home.  Should I even bother looking at the houses where cats are living?  I read on a couple web sites that within a few months, the allergen levels can be reduced to a non-harmful level.  Does anyone have experience with this?  I wonder what would have to be done – rip out all carpet, professional duct cleaning, etc.  Any help is appreciated – I’m missing out on some nice houses and want to know if I am being unrealistic. PS I can’t take meds b/c we’re thinking about becoming parents (I’m a woman! =)

Response:

http://www.aircleaners.com here If I were very allergic to cats { Which I Am } I would stay away from all homes that had cats in them. Its not worth the hassle of trying to find and clean all of the contaminated areas. Cat allergen can be very miserable to live with. Signature To Chat With A LIVE Sales Person { NOW ! } Click On The Box To The Right Add the HumanClick "Click to Chat" button to your own e-mails for free at www.humanclick.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Howdy. I have a question.  I know from experience that exposure to a cat triggers a severe attack in me within an hour. I have an inhaler for these times. I am in the market for a home.  Should I even bother looking at the houses where cats are living?  I read on a couple web sites that within a few months, the allergen levels can be reduced to a non-harmful level.  Does anyone have experience with this?  I wonder what would have to be done – rip out all carpet, professional duct cleaning, etc.  Any help is appreciated – I’m missing out on some nice houses and want to know if I am being unrealistic. PS I can’t take meds b/c we’re thinking about becoming parents (I’m a woman! =)

Response:

Question:

I had told the nurse I wanted to do the CT scan today and she said she would schedule it and call with a time.  I let the time get away from me and before I knew it, it was after 5pm.  I guess I will call this morning and see what is up. I have a question for anyone who may know.  I have been taking Bidex, Singulair and Histussin HC for the past week for my breathing and chest congestion.  Do any of these cause a depressing or down-feeling effect?  I have felt like crying a lot the last couple of days.  Of course, when I have felt bad for too long I feel that way also.  I was just wondering if any of these meds could have that side-effect? Vicki — The charter is available at:

Question:

would that be memory ‘loss’, or just short term memory is an effect in itself?  or do you mean short term memory is slowed, which would mean one would only remember what one did yesterday when yesterday becomes in my homestate this week: (connecticut))

Bikers? Or do you mean posers on "hawgs?" I don’t care what patch they wear, all I meet these days are suburbanites playing dress-up and gangster games. It’s not lost or anything. Short-term memory just becomes more difficult to access while under the effects of THC. After an hour, everything is back to normal, whatever that may be. — Compute Free <http://debian.org<http://freedos.org<http://openbsd.org Help People  <http://rawa.org<http://tibet.org<http://gadenrelief.org Do Something <http://www.msf.org<http://www.icrc.org/<http://icbl.org Now <http://www.foei.org<http://www.greenpeace.org<http://activist.ca

Response:

Short-term memory is the most easily noted effect for marijuana, but other processes are slowed too, such as reaction time.

would that be memory ‘loss’, or just short term memory is an effect in itself?  or do you mean short term memory is slowed, which would mean one would only remember what one did yesterday when yesterday becomes in my homestate this week: (connecticut)) —Brian

Response:

The wrong link for the Compassion Club listings. It’s with an ‘h’: <http://medicalmarihuana.ca/compassionclubs.html Maybe. Can’t seem to remember right now. hahahahaha — Compute Free <http://debian.org<http://freedos.org<http://openbsd.org Help People  <http://rawa.org<http://tibet.org<http://gadenrelief.org Do Something <http://www.msf.org<http://www.icrc.org/<http://icbl.org Now <http://www.foei.org<http://www.greenpeace.org<http://activist.ca

Response:

I’m having a rough time with the side effects with effexor. It’s been years since I’ve done it but do you think Cannabis is a way to go to relieve some of the adverse side effects to depression and meds?

Some of them. Vertigo, dizzyness and nausea. It can keep you from choking to death on vomit in your sleep. It renders a sense of euphoria. It is considered a euphoriant depressant drug. It’s very good for pain. Being called a "depressant" drug does not mean that it causes depression. A depressant drug slows down some brain processes. Short-term memory is the most easily noted effect for marijuana, but other processes are slowed too, such as reaction time. As for being a drug, it sure looks like a plant to me. Food. I don’t smoke so I’m thinking more like Hash-brownies(do they still call them that?)

Only if they’re brownies made with hashish. Pot cake and pot cookies are popular. To eat it, and not have it cost a fortune or use a whole lot, you have to first melt the finely-ground herb in the butter or other fat to be used in the recipe. Then bake it. By melting it into the fat prior to cooking it will emulsify and the active compounds will be more available upon ingestion. Do not cook with hashish – today that is considered a waste, which it is. The quality of both marijuana and hashish has changed a lot in the past twenty years. Would love to hear some thoughts and Idea’s about this.

Look for a Compassion Club in your area. Ask your physician for a prescription for medical marijuana if it is available in your area. In Canada and some US states, you can grow your own or contract for someone to do it for you. A prescription and some licenses are required. There are also medical marijuana suppliers, but they are quite expensive since the marijuana is indoor grown, organically under lab conditions at great expense. The price is similar to black market marijuana. If you grow your own, or contract a grower, it can be done anually and outdoors and can be very cheap. I don’t know which states in the USA it is legal in, but there are a few. There are also ways to get it in Europe and Britian, I don’t know those either. But, just in case it’s useful, here is the Canadian government site for obtaining the forms for the permits and licenses: Health Canada: <http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/hecs-sesc/ocma/ Compassion Clubs: <http://medicalmarijuana.ca/compassionclubs.html There are more clubs than what are listed there. Good seeds: <http://www.kindseed.com/ The favourites for medical use are: Jack Herer – Sensi Seeds (way overpriced, but hardy) Chronic – Serious Seeds (medium priced, longtime favourite) Chemo – Jordan Island Seeds (very good price, upcoming challenger) I’d go for the Chemo. It was developed as a medical grade strain, hence the name. — Compute Free <http://debian.org<http://freedos.org<http://openbsd.org Help People  <http://rawa.org<http://tibet.org<http://gadenrelief.org Do Something <http://www.msf.org<http://www.icrc.org/<http://icbl.org Now <http://www.foei.org<http://www.greenpeace.org<http://activist.ca

Response:

snip Instead, I sit here with no way to solve anything,  Just withdrawing, knowing winter is coming, and I’ll still be in this stress mess.  I don’t have the energy I had before my trip to the hospital.  I need some help, and have tried everything, to no avail.  It’s complicated, and somehow there are no answers.   Just a big stress mess that is really taking it’s toll.

Sounds as though that spell in hospital triggered something.  Have you told your doctor what you feel like?   — —  Whiskers

Response:

Pigtail, I’ve got lots of thoughts on this, including someone in your area that might just be eager to help.  Loads of experience (23 years) from having my ill mother with me in my California residence and having to deal with the problem of needing medical benefits for her but the State disqualifying her because she was my dependant, but if she lived in her own place, she would be allowed to have a live in caretaker and still keep her benefits, but if the caretaker was related to her she’d be disqualified, because then they might consider her head of household…..  I’m sure you know this song by now.  It was written by the No Way to Win group of bureaucrats. Let me get my thoughts together, I’m still having trouble concentrating, and I’ll email you direct later today.  Also, you mentioned that your mother is 87.  My mother was 82, but I’m only 43 (the baby).  I need to know your age, simply because, as we both know, the State can be very fixated on your age and what benefits and help they will let you receive all due to that magic number.  Direct email me with it, so that I’ll hear the message come in. Blessings, Cait

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi!  This is Pigtail back again.  Thank you Whiskers (love it) for your reply and help.  Thank you Alan for the great sense of humor in your message, and thanks Tara for welcoming me.  I appreciate all of you.  I have to say that I’m not really comfortable posting personal thoughts, etc., but could use some new friends, and support. I wish I could reach out somehow, and touch each one of you, and make things turn better…like quick for you.  My heart and thoughts are with you anyway.  It is hard to see other’s suffering. This will be too long to write at one time.  I live alone, and have helped the elderly and animals, my entire life.  I do many things for the less fortunate. A year ago, I had some kind of attack….physician said gall bladder, but I didn’t have very good vibes about it.  I had been out stacking bales of hay.  In brief, this became a nightmare from hell.  Before I was rudely interrupted and sent to the hospital, I was packing to move. You know….the entire house torn completely up.  Putting everything in storage, and trying to paint, digging everything out of the yard..(e-gads), etc.  I got out of the hospital in December, cold and raining, and back to the house just like I left it.  In no shape, or mood to do anything but look at it all. Here I sit a year later overwhelmed in trying to figure out how to ever accomplish this.  I can’t even find my good sense of humor….it is gone. I have became angry, stressed to the max, disgusted, and signs of depression lurking around me. Then I decided I would see about helping a couple people in the homeless shelter.  If I could find the right people, it would help us both.  I could give someone a permanant place to live, and maybe we could just get moved.  All of us could be close to homeless if anything went wrong with our income for a few months. I would need someone compatible, etc. and I didn’t know how to go about this too well.  I wanted someone that I could really help, and one who would appreciate it.  I finally decide to leave the house…….and go to the shelter. Well, that did not turn out too good.  They had to be screened, agree to see you, make an appointment, fill out all this information……  But, you can’t do it quite like that, it could mean losing your medical, etc. if you say they are living with you.  There must be another way, but I don’t know what it is. Nothing I try to do works.  I can’t figure out why. I have a whole business in storage.  I should be pouring plaster molds right now for Christmas.  It helps the animals, elderly, and the homeless. I do animal assisted therapy, and this helps support all of the above. Instead, I sit here with no way to solve anything,  Just withdrawing, knowing winter is coming, and I’ll still be in this stress mess.  I don’t have the energy I had before my trip to the hospital.  I need some help, and have tried everything, to no avail.  It’s complicated, and somehow there are no answers.   Just a big stress mess that is really taking it’s toll. Sorry this is so long.  We all have different things to deal with, don’t we?  Thank you for listening.  I’m here if anyone needs or wants to talk.  You can email me also, if you like.  I wish good things to happen to each of you.

— Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

The pot is a depressant and will just make matters worse. Tell your doctor about you’re trouble with the meds. He can make changes if he deems it necessary.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m a 48 year old father of three and married to a great woman. But, and a big but, I’m sick and very depressed. I have Hep C and hemophilia etc, etc, tried to take my life 2 weeks ago, etc, etc,… I’m having a rough time with the side effects with effexor. It’s been years since I’ve done it but do you think Cannabis is a way to go to relieve some of the adverse side effects to depression and meds? I don’t smoke so I’m thinking more like Hash-brownies(do they still call them that?) Would love to hear some thoughts and Idea’s about this.

Response:

Hi!  This is Pigtail back again.  Thank you Whiskers (love it) for your reply and help.  Thank you Alan for the great sense of humor in your message, and thanks Tara for welcoming me.  I appreciate all of you.  I have to say that I’m not really comfortable posting personal thoughts, etc., but could use some new friends, and support. I wish I could reach out somehow, and touch each one of you, and make things turn better…like quick for you.  My heart and thoughts are with you anyway.  It is hard to see other’s suffering. This will be too long to write at one time.  I live alone, and have helped the elderly and animals, my entire life.  I do many things for the less fortunate.   A year ago, I had some kind of attack….physician said gall bladder, but I didn’t have very good vibes about it.  I had been out stacking bales of hay.  In brief, this became a nightmare from hell.  Before I was rudely interrupted and sent to the hospital, I was packing to move. You know….the entire house torn completely up.  Putting everything in storage, and trying to paint, digging everything out of the yard..(e-gads), etc.  I got out of the hospital in December, cold and raining, and back to the house just like I left it.  In no shape, or mood to do anything but look at it all. Here I sit a year later overwhelmed in trying to figure out how to ever accomplish this.  I can’t even find my good sense of humor….it is gone. I have became angry, stressed to the max, disgusted, and signs of depression lurking around me.   Then I decided I would see about helping a couple people in the homeless shelter.  If I could find the right people, it would help us both.  I could give someone a permanant place to live, and maybe we could just get moved.  All of us could be close to homeless if anything went wrong with our income for a few months. I would need someone compatible, etc. and I didn’t know how to go about this too well.  I wanted someone that I could really help, and one who would appreciate it.  I finally decide to leave the house…….and go to the shelter. Well, that did not turn out too good.  They had to be screened, agree to see you, make an appointment, fill out all this information……  But, you can’t do it quite like that, it could mean losing your medical, etc. if you say they are living with you.  There must be another way, but I don’t know what it is. Nothing I try to do works.  I can’t figure out why. I have a whole business in storage.  I should be pouring plaster molds right now for Christmas.  It helps the animals, elderly, and the homeless. I do animal assisted therapy, and this helps support all of the above.   Instead, I sit here with no way to solve anything,  Just withdrawing, knowing winter is coming, and I’ll still be in this stress mess.  I don’t have the energy I had before my trip to the hospital.  I need some help, and have tried everything, to no avail.  It’s complicated, and somehow there are no answers.   Just a big stress mess that is really taking it’s toll. Sorry this is so long.  We all have different things to deal with, don’t we?  Thank you for listening.  I’m here if anyone needs or wants to talk.  You can email me also, if you like.  I wish good things to happen to each of you.

Response:

Thanks Tara. Paul in Ontario discoursed thusly: I’ve become one of those people who I use to call

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – is everything. I’m really living my worse night-mare! I thought I could handle anything in my life but mental illness mixed with a chronic disease is a one two punch that has rocked me to my foundation. I feel lower than a snakes belly!!! The important thing to keep in mind, Paul, is it’s *feelings*and not reality. The reality is, anyone who gets hit with that kind of one-two punch is going to feel shaky. It’s not weakness. It’s not failure. It’s a hell of a hit to have to take. So, cut yourself some slack. You didn’t ask for this shit, you don’t deserve this shit, and you’re doing the best you can in the circumstances. That’s the most any of us can do. Tara J. Ballance Montreal, Canada

Response:

Thanks all for responding. I kinda felt I was clutching at straws with the cannabis thoughts, but when you are sick and tired of being sick and tired Endocet pain killers which ultimatley led to my attempt at suicide. is everything. I’m really living my worse night-mare! I thought I could handle anything in my life but mental illness mixed with a chronic disease is a one two punch that has rocked me to my foundation. I feel lower than a snakes belly!!!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Twist- I also suffer from Hepatitis C, and a number of my friends (who do also) SWEAR by marijuana as a great way to relieve the pain and nausea from the Hep itself, as well as the Hep tx. As I’m sure you well know, a number of us are put on antids before beginning tx because of the side effects of the interferon. However, if you are suffering from NATURAL depression, (not drug induced) I’m not sure that I would go that route. Even though it DOES take 2-4 (or longer) weeks to fully realize any relief from a new antid, if the sides are THAT bad, it is unlikely that the relief will outweigh them. I would suggest that you go ahead and tell the doctor that  you simply cannot take the sides, and try something else. Better to do it now, than to go through however long you give it, then find that it doesn’t work. Simply MHO though. Wanda

Response:

Twist- I also suffer from Hepatitis C, and a number of my friends (who do also) SWEAR by marijuana as a great way to relieve the pain and nausea from the Hep itself, as well as the Hep tx. As I’m sure you well know, a number of us are put on antids before beginning tx because of the side effects of the interferon. However, if you are suffering from NATURAL depression, (not drug induced) I’m not sure that I would go that route. Even though it DOES take 2-4 (or longer) weeks to fully realize any relief from a new antid, if the sides are THAT bad, it is unlikely that the relief will outweigh them. I would suggest that you go ahead and tell the doctor that  you simply cannot take the sides, and try something else. Better to do it now, than to go through however long you give it, then find that it doesn’t work. Simply MHO though. Wanda

Response:

I’m having a rough time with the side effects with effexor. It’s been years since I’ve done it but do you think Cannabis is a way to go to relieve some of the adverse side effects to depression and meds?

It definately won’t help with depression, except that it might help you sleep. It is an amazing painkiller though, if the pain is physical. I suffer from severe migraine headaches and marijuana is the only thing I’ve ever known to successfully relieve them (after 10 years of looking). I don’t smoke so I’m thinking more like Hash-brownies(do they still call them that?)

I go to an affluent high school rife with drug use and no one I know of bothers with mixing it into food. I’ve been told you need quite a lot of it to do this, which could be expensive? I don’t know how much your medication is though.

Response:

I’m a 48 year old father of three and married to a great woman. But, and a big but, I’m sick and very depressed. I have Hep C and hemophilia etc, etc, tried to take my life 2 weeks ago, etc, etc,… I’m having a rough time with the side effects with effexor. It’s been years since I’ve done it but do you think Cannabis is a way to go to relieve some of the adverse side effects to depression and meds? I don’t smoke so I’m thinking more like Hash-brownies(do they still call them that?) Would love to hear some thoughts and Idea’s about this.

pot is a depressant as is alcohol…stay away from both, hang in there, let the meds have time to work.  I’m waiting on mine to kick in (just started 3 days ago) and its not easy.  I have good and bad moments…you will too-post here, check with your doc, call friends, play with a pet…stay away from self-medication though.

Response:

Yes, I know. But everyone keeps telling me I should wait another 2-4 weeks to see if effexor will work.

If you are getting side-efects that you can’t put up with, then certainly talk to the doctor again.  There are lots of different anti-depressants, and each person reacts differently. Don’t stop taking the medication without talking to your doctor first; some things are best ‘tapered off’ gradually. — —  Whiskers

Response:

No, I don’t think taking an illegal depressant will help your depression.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m a 48 year old father of three and married to a great woman. But, and a big but, I’m sick and very depressed. I have Hep C and hemophilia etc, etc, tried to take my life 2 weeks ago, etc, etc,… I’m having a rough time with the side effects with effexor. It’s been years since I’ve done it but do you think Cannabis is a way to go to relieve some of the adverse side effects to depression and meds? I don’t smoke so I’m thinking more like Hash-brownies(do they still call them that?) Would love to hear some thoughts and Idea’s about this.

— Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

Yes, I know. But everyone keeps telling me I should wait another 2-4 weeks to see if effexor will work.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m a 48 year old father of three and married to a great woman. But, and a big but, I’m sick and very depressed. I have Hep C and hemophilia etc, etc, tried to take my life 2 weeks ago, etc, etc,… I’m having a rough time with the side effects with effexor. It’s been years since I’ve done it but do you think Cannabis is a way to go to relieve some of the adverse side effects to depression and meds? I don’t smoke so I’m thinking more like Hash-brownies(do they still call them that?) Would love to hear some thoughts and Idea’s about this. see a doctor , there are lots of drugs besides effexor

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m a 48 year old father of three and married to a great woman. But, and a big but, I’m sick and very depressed. I have Hep C and hemophilia etc, etc, tried to take my life 2 weeks ago, etc, etc,… I’m having a rough time with the side effects with effexor. It’s been years since I’ve done it but do you think Cannabis is a way to go to relieve some of the adverse side effects to depression and meds? I don’t smoke so I’m thinking more like Hash-brownies(do they still call them that?) Would love to hear some thoughts and Idea’s about this.

see a doctor , there are lots of drugs besides effexor

Response:

I’m a 48 year old father of three and married to a great woman. But, and a big but, I’m sick and very depressed. I have Hep C and hemophilia etc, etc, tried to take my life 2 weeks ago, etc, etc,… I’m having a rough time with the side effects with effexor. It’s been years since I’ve done it but do you think Cannabis is a way to go to relieve some of the adverse side effects to depression and meds? I don’t smoke so I’m thinking more like Hash-brownies(do they still call them that?) Would love to hear some thoughts and Idea’s about this.

Response:

Question:

: I feel guilty for receiving support and not giving back so much right now : but maybe I can forgive myself and accept that I’m not doing well and I’m : trying to make a very diffiult decision, ect or not. : : I called my pdoc today and we talked. she answered my questions and I’m : satisfied with her answers so I think I’ll try ect. the ward is full right : now but my pdoc was going to call every day and find out when they have room : for me. probably on sunday she said. : : unreal. can’t understand that I’m talking about myself. : : I’m terrified. ((((((Linda)))))) When I first read this, I wasn’t sure what ect was, but then I looked it up in the group’s FAQ.  Now I do understand. I do hope this treatment works well for you. Jim — Jim Todd Remove "SPAM" to send e-mail

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snip unreal. can’t understand that I’m talking about myself. I’m terrified.

I’m thinking of you. Whiskery Hugs {{{{{Linda}}}}} — —  Whiskers

Response:

Linda, If you’re running out of meds to try, then maybe ECT is an option for you. I once spoke to my pdoc about it, and he said that ECT is very effective, but you have to try to come up with a plan for what to do after the treatments.  ECT works to make things better for a while, and gives you time to plan what your next med will be, but you have to talk with your pdoc about what other meds you can try. Personally I’ve had a great run with Aurorix (moclobemide) but that’s not available in all countries.  I don’t know if it’s available in Europe.  If you can get the Aurorix, I had to push the dose up to 1200 mg to get a lasting effect (which is a pretty high dose). I also had a good run for a while combining Effexor XR with risperidone and later seroquel.  I don’t know if you’ve tried these type of meds (antipsychotics / major tranqualisers) in combination with an SSRI. I know ECT is scary, but I think it might be a good option to give you some time and some relief for a while.  I really hope it works for you. Email me if you want to talk anytime.  Get Bjorn to forward messages to ASD about how you’re doing if you’re in hospital or not feeling up to posting. I (and many others here) care and want to know what’s happening with you. Best of luck, Kylie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I feel guilty for receiving support and not giving back so much right now but maybe I can forgive myself and accept that I’m not doing well and I’m trying to make a very diffiult decision, ect or not. I called my pdoc today and we talked. she answered my questions and I’m satisfied with her answers so I think I’ll try ect. the ward is full right now but my pdoc was going to call every day and find out when they have room for me. probably on sunday she said. unreal. can’t understand that I’m talking about myself. I’m terrified. Linda

Response:

I feel guilty for receiving support and not giving back so much right now but maybe I can forgive myself and accept that I’m not doing well and I’m trying to make a very diffiult decision, ect or not. I called my pdoc today and we talked. she answered my questions and I’m satisfied with her answers so I think I’ll try ect. the ward is full right now but my pdoc was going to call every day and find out when they have room for me. probably on sunday she said. unreal. can’t understand that I’m talking about myself. I’m terrified. Linda

Response:

I feel guilty for receiving support and not giving back so much right now but maybe I can forgive myself and accept that I’m not doing well and I’m trying to make a very diffiult decision, ect or not. I called my pdoc today and we talked. she answered my questions and I’m satisfied with her answers so I think I’ll try ect. the ward is full right now but my pdoc was going to call every day and find out when they have room for me. probably on sunday she said. unreal. can’t understand that I’m talking about myself. I’m terrified.

I can understand that. But I do feel you have made a good decision. Stan Linda

Remove "JUNK" for my valid address.

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Question:

Hi Dianne, I have been taking Zoloft for nearly 12 months. I feel that it is helping me, and would not stop its use. I take 100 mg per day. I have no pain, my circulation in my legs are better. My fatigue level has improved, and in general I feel great. You have to allow it to be in your system for about 4 weeks though, before you start feeling the effects.  I have had no side effects with this medication either. Email me if you like and I will explain in details my improvements to you.   Hope I have helped, Heather. In Australia

Response:

I am currently taking Zoloft.  It makes me feel jumpy and nervous.  Haven’t noticed any improvement as far as fatigue though.  Not sleeping well but I am not sure that is from the Zoloft either.  My 2 cents worth. |     /|   —-    —–       |   /  |  |     |  |     |                      ~~~~~~~~BECK~~~~~~~~ |       |  |     |  |     |                   "Faith ends where worry begins" |       |   —-     —-            

Response:

G’day Diane, I’ve been on Zoloft for over a year now, and my parents tell me it’s made me much easier to live with.  The medication does not start working immediately, so you should wait at least a month before you decide it’s not doing any good.  The starting dosage recommended here in Australia is 50mg daily, so I think your doc has sort of ‘gone the hack’ a bit.  I’m on 100mg and doing fine.  Wish you the best of luck, whatever you decide to do. Catch ya later, Pete Johnson Frankston, Victoria, Australia

Response:

Diane, I was taking Zoloft 100 mg per day for the last 3 yrs for depression and just recently stopped taking it, I chose to stop taking it because I hate taking so many meds and thought I would see if I could do without it. I am doing fine. I never had any side efeects from it and it helped a lot, but like everyone said it takes a few weeks to notice a difference. I also take Amantadine for fatigue since March and it helped alot at first but I am finding I am getting tired again in the afternoon. I was also taking Baclofen for spasms but stopped because it was not helping. You didn’t say how long you have been trying Zoloft, but take it for atleast a month before deciding if it works, because it does take time. Be Well! Denise

Response:

On 28 Sep 1998 22:51:26 GMT, schi…@aol.com (SCHIF99) wrote:

Would like to know if anyone is taking Zoloft….Was taking Elavil, but had too many side effects…so doc switched me to Zoloft 200 mg every day…said it should help the fatigue and the pain…I don’t think it’s working that well at all…still have lots of pain,

I have taken prozac and paxil which are similar SSRI’s.  They take about four weeks to kick in.  They really helped depression, but were less reliable for pain.  However, with the depression under control, I was much more able to cope with the pain. Today my most serious pain is in my back from osteoporosis fractures and the arthritis caused by their healing.  No way would I take any more steroid — let alone monthly.   Be sure that you are getting regular bone density scans. Kate

Response:

Diane – I have taken Zoloft for a few years – find it works well – I take it for the depress- ion – I also have lots of pain – all over – along with sciatica – which I see a chiropractor for about twice a week – the pain is all over – yet my neuro says MS doesn’t include pain – had a bad episode a year ago – went on prednisone – it stopped the pain – but zapped me- felt like I had the flu – could barely get out of bed – would like to learn more about your pain – and what meds you have taken along with their results – thanks so much Brenda

Response:

Would like to know if anyone is taking Zoloft….Was taking Elavil, but had too many side effects…so doc switched me to Zoloft 200 mg every day…said it should help the fatigue and the pain…I don’t think it’s working that well at all…still have lots of pain, still take amantadine for fatigue….problem is i’m really not sure if its worth switching to try something else….I do IV solumedrol once a month (1000 mg)…and sort of look forward to that to cover up my pain for a while…but really don’t want to do that forever either!! Would be great to hear from anyone with any zoloft experience….thanks in advance…diane

Response:

I have been taking Zoloft, 25mg (very low dose) for the depression and fatigue.  It works for me but I also have a lot of shoulder and back spasms and pain which I’ve attributed to MS.  I just found this site that asks questions about antidepressants and low and behold back spasms and pain are side effects of Zoloft sometimes!!

Response:

What’s the URL for the site? Dick Stephens – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

I have been taking Zoloft, 25mg (very low dose) for the depression and fatigue. It works for me but I also have a lot of shoulder and back spasms and pain which I’ve attributed to MS.  I just found this site that asks questions about antidepressants and low and behold back spasms and pain are side effects of Zoloft sometimes!!

Response:

KFryk wrote:

I have been taking Zoloft, 25mg (very low dose) for the depression and fatigue.  It works for me but I also have a lot of shoulder and back spasms and pain which I’ve attributed to MS.  I just found this site that asks questions about antidepressants and low and behold back spasms and pain are side effects of Zoloft sometimes!!

On the other hand, my Zoloft was increased when I was having severe headaches, due to muscle spasticity in my neck. Lo & behold, the spasticity in my neck & the headaches have stopped! The moral of this story: everyone reacts differently to meds. Lin ~~ You can tune a piano, but you can’t tuna fish ~~ My header never changes…..look carefully & don’t be fooled by forgeries!

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi there i take xanax 0.5mgs 4 x day..I just started celexa today to hel p with the obsessive thought patterns i seem to get into…I started at 10mgs..I understand i am supposed to ween off xanax..but by how much?? Tonight i am going to cut my usual pill in half making my daily dose .25 less then regular..how long should i maintain this before reducing more?? My shrink is on holidays and i finally got up enough courage to try a new med….sheesh shitty timing on my part.. also is it ok to advil for headaches while on these meds? I also take 40mgs a day of propanolol…thanks Shannon oh and please dont tell me bad stuff about celexa like side effects etc..or else i will think i have them and stop the meds….please only good stuff Thanks

Shannon, You shouldn’t wean off Xanax while weaning on Celexa. Xanax helps you avoiding initial Celexa side effects which you’re so afraid of. So you’d better wait till Celexa is working properly. You can take Advil for headaches with your other meds but it might be a good question to consider whether your headache is’t an anxiety symptom too which may disappear when the Celexa will have kicked in (which may take a while, up to eight weeks although beneficial effect may come much earlier). Philip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – —

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi there i take xanax 0.5mgs 4 x day..I just started celexa today to hel p with the obsessive thought patterns i seem to get into…I started at 10mgs..I understand i am supposed to ween off xanax..but by how much?? Tonight i am going to cut my usual pill in half making my daily dose .25 less then regular..how long should i maintain this before reducing more?? My shrink is on holidays and i finally got up enough courage to try a new med….sheesh shitty timing on my part.. also is it ok to advil for headaches while on these meds? I also take 40mgs a day of propanolol…thanks Shannon oh and please dont tell me bad stuff about celexa like side effects etc..or else i will think i have them and stop the meds….please only good stuff Thanks

Shannon –   I’ll start with the positive report that I’ve been on Zoloft (another SSRI like Celexa) for 10 weeks with no big problems with side-effects…I have another friend who’s fiancee is on Celexa and loves it!  Also, I’ve been on Xanax and Zoloft the entire time and have taken Advil several times with no problems…   As far as the Xanax weening, take your time…I was taking .25 mg/ 6 times a day…I am now down to three…First things first, I would not reduce your Xanax for at least several weeks so that you have time to adjust to the Celexa and see some results (the AD’s will not do anything for several weeks).  From my doctor’s advice and my own experience I recommend the following to ensure no problems:  Reduce your intake by no more than .25 mg/week…The best thing to do is to stop taking it first at times when you normally feel least anxious (for me the bedtime dose went first)…Also, DON’T feel like you must adhere to your reduced dosage…If you are having breakthrough problems (as per me the last few days), I’ve found you are much better off taking the extra dose that day so that you don’t aggrevate your situation…You should be able to go to your reduced dose as soon as your breakthrough ends… Hope this all helps… — Charles Phipps

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi there i take xanax 0.5mgs 4 x day..I just started celexa today to hel p with the obsessive thought patterns i seem to get into…I started at 10mgs..I understand i am supposed to ween off xanax..but by how much?? Shannon oh and please dont tell me bad stuff about celexa like side effects etc..or else i will think i have them and stop the meds….please only good stuff Thanks Shannon –  I’ll start with the positive report that I’ve been on Zoloft (another SSRI like Celexa) for 10 weeks with no big problems with side-effects…I have another friend who’s fiancee is on Celexa and loves it!  Also, I’ve been on Xanax and Zoloft the entire time and have taken Advil several times with no problems…  As far as the Xanax weening, take your time…I was taking .25 mg/ 6 times a day…I am now down to three…First things first, I would not reduce your Xanax for at least several weeks so that you have time to adjust to the Celexa and see some results (the AD’s will not do anything for several weeks).  From my doctor’s advice and my own experience I recommend the following to ensure no problems:  Reduce your intake by no more than .25 mg/week…The best thing to do is to stop taking it first at times when you normally feel least anxious (for me the bedtime dose went first)…Also, DON’T feel like you must adhere to your reduced dosage…If you are having breakthrough problems (as per me the last few days), I’ve found you are much better off taking the extra dose that day so that you don’t aggrevate your situation…You should be able to go to your reduced dose as soon as your breakthrough ends… Hope this all helps… — Charles Phipps

Hi Shannon! I’m only 6 weeks ahead of you! Just Xanax and Celexa-not the other one. I didn’t even discuss weaning for the 1st 4 weeks when everything started kicking in with the Celexa. My doc said I’d probably "know" when it was time and she was right. Now that the Celexa is working, the Xanax actually works like it does for people without panic-I get too sleepy! And like Charles, I’ve had moments or a day when I had to take that extra .25mg after not having it-just try to go with the flow, which will probably be your mood eventually anyway. Just take it a day at a time. BTW, I was on 3mgs a day total of Xanax for almost 3 years-I’m down to 2.25mgs a day and everythings been just fine. Celexa does work well. Try to get back to me when you want to know about any of the less pretty aspects…most were transient and not bad at all. I thought it was helpful to find people who had the same reactions. Otherwise, I think I would have been more paranoid. Let me know. Denise – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Hi there i take xanax 0.5mgs 4 x day..I just started celexa today to hel p with the obsessive thought patterns i seem to get into…I started at 10mgs..I understand i am supposed to ween off xanax..but by how much?? Tonight i am going to cut my usual pill in half making my daily dose .25 less then regular..how long should i maintain this before reducing more?? My shrink is on holidays and i finally got up enough courage to try a new med….sheesh shitty timing on my part.. also is it ok to advil for headaches while on these meds? I also take 40mgs a day of propanolol…thanks Shannon oh and please dont tell me bad stuff about celexa like side effects etc..or else i will think i have them and stop the meds….please only good stuff Thanks — Shannon the Barbarian ~*Note To Self : Never, ever post to a Newsgroup again without Headgear and Full Body Armor*~

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi there i take xanax 0.5mgs 4 x day..I just started celexa today to hel p with the obsessive thought patterns i seem to get into…I started at 10mgs..I understand i am supposed to ween off xanax..but by how much?? Tonight i am going to cut my usual pill in half making my daily dose .25 less then regular..how long should i maintain this before reducing more?? My shrink is on holidays and i finally got up enough courage to try a new med….sheesh shitty timing on my part.. also is it ok to advil for headaches while on these meds? I also take 40mgs a day of propanolol…thanks Shannon oh and please dont tell me bad stuff about celexa like side effects etc..or else i will think i have them and stop the meds….please only good stuff Thanks

Hi Shannon, In my opinion this is not the time to be weaning off your Xanax. Most people while weaning on a anti-depressant use a benzo to help them. If you start getting funny physical sensations, you might blame the Celexa when it is really being caused by weaning off Xanax. Who told you that you had to wean off Xanax? I really advise you against decreasing your Xanax dose as of this time. You need to talk to your therapist when he gets back from holiday. I do not recommend taking Advil with the Propanolol. I would call your doctor and discuss this with him. There is a possible interaction if you take the two, and that is a decreased anti-hypertensive effect of the Propanolol. Tylenol should be fine. I think I answered you questions without saying anything bad about the Celexa…..<G!!!! Good luck!! Jackie "Strange as it may seem, my life is based on a true story

Response:

Question:

Has anybody experienced anti-depressants making back pain worse? Or knocking out the narcotic? Regards, Dave

Response:

I have noticed the pain being repressed and then causing an emotional breakdown from the repressed pain reappearing and causing an emotional overload.                                                                 Terry

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Has anybody experienced anti-depressants making back pain worse? Or knocking out the narcotic? Regards, Dave

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I’ve taken Elavil, an old tricyclic (amitryptaline –sp?), which helped me sleep through the night when taken at bedtime, as drowsiness is one of its side effects and the sole purpose for which I took it.  I also took Zyban (Wellbutrin) for about 2 months to help me quit smoking, and it had no perceptible effect on my pain or pain meds (I DID quit smoking though, September 1, 1998, 4pm, WAY more easily than prior failed quitting efforts, but I digress).  I’ve HEARD that some of the selective seratonin reuptake inhibitors, like Prozac, Zoloft, etc., can have such a stimulating effect with some people that it could be considered to "negate" the narcotic (to me, a major function of narcotic painkillers is to instill a "what the fuck" attitude toward the pain rather than actually reducing the pain per se, so anything messing with that WTF effect would make my perception of the pain worse.)   I DO know that antidepressant prescribing is a far-from-exact science (one could use the term "buckshot" were one cranky), so I suggest you discuss this with your doc and try a different sort of antidepressant.  Hell, worsened pain is enough to depress anyone, so I can’t imagine your doc not being willing to experiment with a different sort.  May I indulge my prurient curiosity and ask which AD is having this effect on you?  Inquiring minds want to know . . . Hope you get the relief you’re entitled to, and soon ATB Louise

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Greetings all, I take 50 mg of Zoloft once a day, but not for my back pain. I was originally put on it when I had some depression over my medical condition(s), and although it doesn’t seem to make a diffference with the amount of relief I get from my narcotic medications, I feel better able to cope with my situation, and it has helped my appetite. I went off of it for a few weeks, and became more irritable {i.e. bursting into tears and feeling "why me?"}  and did not want to eat. Maybe this is just a psychological reaction on my part…but others that I know using Zoloft and other SSRI’s report the same "better able to cope" benefit.   A side note however, taking it when I get up in the morning seems to work best. If it is taken at night, it can interfere with sleep…I had trouble staying asleep and when I did get to sleep, I had *very* strange dreams.   I have tried Elavil, but could not tolerate it. I had severe neck spasms and a very "disjointed" feeling {think of the Sudafed "medicine head" effect in the commercials}. Wishing everyone a tolerable pain day. All the best, Lily Human (n): domestic animal popular with cats *remove the editorial comment on AOL service from the address to send me e-mail*

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Has anybody experienced anti-depressants making back pain worse? Or knocking out the narcotic? Regards, Dave

Zoloft (sertraline) made my pain worse.  I believe that SSRI antidepressants like Zoloft are less effective for this purpose than the older TCAs (Elavil, etc.).  These can be of SOME help but must be taken on a continuous basis and the side effects can be pretty bad (I took doxepin for some years and discontinued it because of these).  As you suggest, it also seemed to negate the effect of codeine.

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I have been on many differant anti-deppressants along w/ my pain meds w/ varying results.  The docs always told me that the combinations would "help" my headaches.  The only real help I get is the ms contin or sleep (much benedryl) I belive I still need the anti depressants tho because the view over the railings on 10th flr + sure look inviting. Walk Gently Upon Mother Earth Peter **** Posted from RemarQ – http://www.remarq.com – Discussions Start Here ™ ****

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Hi Peter, My mother took Elavil for a very long time for her migraines and it made a huge difference for her.  Instead of having to go to the ER twice a month for injections of Demerol or Dilaudid, it went down to maybe once every six months to a year!!!!!  Due to the Elavil causing weight gain, she was switched to Prozac, which has also done a great job at controlling her headaches.   I belive I still need the anti depressants tho because the view over the railings on 10th flr + sure look inviting.

PLEASE, don’t go over there anymore!!  We want you here!!!! Robin I have been on many differant anti-deppressants along w/ my pain meds w/ varying results.  The docs always told me that the combinations would "help" my headaches.  The only real help I get is the ms contin or sleep (much benedryl) I belive I still need the anti depressants tho because the view over the railings on 10th flr + sure look inviting.

I am in no way a physician or any other type of medical professional.  I am just speaking from personal experience or information gained during my treatment or research ;o). Remove NOSPAM from the above email address to contact me.

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Has anybody experienced anti-depressants making back pain worse? Or knocking out the narcotic? Regards, Dave

    I have. I’m taking 2 antidepressants, Respiridol, and Dyseril.  They really put me to sleep, but the pain is intense when I wake up every 30 minutes.  Before the Dr. prescribed that combo (along with Zoloft), my pain med seemed to last a hell of a lot longer. Alex

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Ian,                                                                              Thank you for the information you sent to me about Zoloft withdrawal.  Do you know if it will be easier for someone like me who is only on 37 1/2 mg. to get off of, verses someone who is on alot more?  Or does that matter?  Do you know how long of a weaning period it should take?  I am really starting to get nervous.  I had terrible withdrawals getting off of Klonopin.  Thank you for

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Ian,                                                                           Thank you for the information you sent to me about Zoloft withdrawal.  Do you know if it will be easier for someone like me who is only on 37 1/2 mg. to get off of, verses someone who is on alot more?

The short answer is yes, it should be easier to wean off a low dose compared to a higher one. However, the long answer may give a different picture. Your 37.5mg dose is so low that, in theory, you should be able to stop, cold turkey, without problems. Withdrawal from antidepressants is different to that from benzodiazepines. This is partly due to the comparatively long half-life of ADs, in some cases it can take more than a month for all traces of an AD to be eliminated from the body. And the way ADs work can also lessen the severety of withdrawal. On the down side, the long half-life means that the weaning process can be a drawn out process. But, ‘withdrawal’ encompasses many factors, not all related to the chemistry of the medication/drug. Both the psychological stress of withdrawal and, possibly, the return of the anxiety that prompted medication originally can have a big affect. From reading your earlier posts, it seems that you are looking forward to being med free and this may help you to negate/overcome the psych. stress component. Whether your anxiety will return as the Zoloft is reduced is another matter. In theory, being below the accepted therapeutic dose, would suggest that the Zoloft hasn’t have been comtributing much, if anything, to any lessening of anxiety. However, our individual responses to medication is different and its possible that you have been deriving far more benefit than would be the case with someone else. Unfortunately, the symptoms of anxiety and withdrawal can be much the same, so for some time it will be difficult to know which factor is driving any symptoms. Do you know how long of a weaning period it should take?

Aah, the how long is a piece of string question. I don’t know, it all depends on you. As I’ve already stated, your low dose should make it comparatively easy to stop, but individual factors and psychology will play a part. The only suggestion is to reduce by a quarter initially and remaining at that level for 7-10 days, or until any withdrawal symptoms disappear. Then reduce by another 1/4, etc. If your run into major problems then either a smaller daily reduction, say 1/8th, or even taking the reduced by 1/4 dose only every second days (eg: 37.5mg, 28mg, 37.5, 28 etc) until you’re stabalised, then dropping to the 28mg for another week can also work. I am really starting to get nervous.  I had terrible withdrawals getting off of Klonopin.

I doubt that you have much to worry about. The withdrawal symptoms of ADs are, in most cases, not as severe as those from benzodiazepines and you are only coming down from a low base. Although I’ve had real problems with starting a new AD, weaning off has presented few difficulties, even from very high doses. Your biggest problem is likely to come from your mind, especially as its been affected by your Klonopin experience (BTW-IMO your probs were probably more psych than chemical). So the best thing you can do is to prepare mentally for the changes your doctor proposes. And if you don’t feel ready, then stay on the meds until you are. Ulimately, your are in charge of your mins and body, not the doc.

Well its knowledge mainly gained from the experiences of those that contribute to this NG. You can help by keeping us informed of your progress. Your experiences, good and bad, will go into the knowledge pool and may help someone else. Good luck and take care Ian

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If there is one subject that consumes most of our attention, it is that of the side effects of medications, particularly anti-anxiety meds. However, not all the S.Es we experience are due to the chemistry of these medications. During drug trials even benign placebos generate far more S.Es in volunteers with anxiety disorders than in volunteers without a disorder. Common effects reported from placebos include: nausea, headache, dizziness, sleepiness,insomnia, fatigue, depression, numbness, hallucinations, itching, vomiting, tremor, tachycardia, diarrhea, pallor, rashes, hives, ataxia, and edema, to name a few. (Source: Merck Manual, Section 22 – Clinical Pharmacology, Sub. Sect: 283 PLACEBOS) So while some of the side effects experienced when beginning medications are undoubtedly due to the medication’s chemistry, some are also the result of our mind’s psychological reaction to the medication. And probably the more ‘pill phobic’ you are the more likely you are to experience psychological side effects. Ian

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Hi, Sandi…. Glad to know I’m not the only cyber junkie here……:))  I spend way too much time on this computer….In a way, it is an escape for me…. I don’t take zoloft, so I can’t offer any comment about the symptoms your were experiencing… But I *do* hope that you are feeling better… Take care……MikeH – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Also, a little LOL I had withdraw from not being able to get on my computer yesterday, My son took the mouse to work with him.  I though it was the end of the world I had to go to the store and buy a mouse so I could get into my support group LOL..(maybe that what cause my aniexty).Hee, Hee Thanks again Sandi

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Hi guys, I need some advice I have in this group for three weeks now and you guys have been all great with your support and I truly thank you. My problem is that I have been feeling good with taking 50mg of zoloft in fact this is the first week that I have been out of the house, driving and have some fun.  The only thing is that yesterday I was having alot of short of breath (it went away later that day).  Last night I started with this weird feeling in the middle of my chest like I ate too much or something, but it felt like I was going to burst.  It was a tightening I guess that how I want to explain it well, anyway it started scaring me I thought I was going to have a heart attack or something.  My husband who I might say is great about all this PA, told me to try to relax, but it was so hard because I was trying to go to sleep and I was really scared.   I gon’t up this morning and I am ok now, does anyone know if they ever had this or is it a side effect from zoloft?  Sorry that this is a long letter.  and Thanks for being there. Also, a little LOL I had withdraw from not being able to get on my computer yesterday, My son took the mouse to work with him.  I though it was the end of the world I had to go to the store and buy a mouse so I could get into my support group LOL..(maybe that what cause my aniexty).Hee, Hee Thanks again Sandi

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