Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -(Starwind) writes: : I sent a message earlier today, but I do not see it.  So I’m trying again. : My husband has asthma.  I hear there are new drugs in the FDA pipeline. : Does anyone know approx. when approval is expected?  Anyone on the drug : studies?  What is their mode of action? One that I am aware of [and used for years in Canada, but which isn't yet available in the US] is Pulmicort.  Pulmicort is the inhaled corticosteroid budesonide.  It is the most potent and powerful inhaled steroid currently on the market [that I am aware of; and it was at least as of a few months ago]. It will be approved in 1996, probably late 1996 [i.e. this year!].  It will be in TURBUHALER form, which is a breath-activated dry powder inhaler which is PURE DRUG, *no* propellants, *no* additives, *no* preservatives. The powder is very fine,a nd everyone [including myself;  probably about 25 people in total that I personally know] that I know who uses it has no problems with it and it does not make them cough. A couple have gotten thrush at least once, but even they get it much less often then they did with previous inhalers.  Pumicort Turbuhalers are supposed to have significantly less incidence of thrush then other steroid ihalers. This drug, for me and many of my firneds, has been absolutely wonderful; it was able to bring my out of control asthma under control, and it keeps me out of very serious trouble during things like colds and bacterial infections.  It also means not going on pred as often [my MD will put me on really high doses of the Pulmicort and we've managed to avoid pred itself several times; although at those doses i get soem systemic effects, I certianly do NOT get as sick as I get on pred].. Oh!  Pulmicort is made by ASTRA.  It has been avalable in Canada since at the latest 1989, probably before that. DC. THE ABOVE IS NOT MEDICAL ADVICE.

There is also a new inhaled steroid coming out Aug 96 by the name of Flovent.  It contains fluticasone propionate and is the inhaler form of the nasal steroid Flonase.  It has been available in Canada and Europe for a while I believe.

Response:

Hi, : on really high doses of the Pulmicort and we’ve managed to avoid pred : itself several times; although at those doses i get soem systemic : effects, I certianly do NOT get as sick as I get on pred].. I must admit that I did like Pulmicort and used it for about 3 years in 1990-1993 (this was in Canada)…I can’t use it now. : : There is also a new inhaled steroid coming out Aug 96 by the name of : Flovent.  It contains fluticasone propionate and is the inhaler form of : the nasal steroid Flonase.  It has been available in Canada and Europe : for a while I believe. Flovent is still considered a very new drug and is not yet on the drug formularly in this Province (it is not recognized or covered by most drug coverage plans).  I believe it hit the Canadian market just after Christmas this year.  I started on it in February. There are two strengths of the Flovent – 125 mcgs and 250 mcgs) so 8 puffs of the 250 mcg inhaler = 16 puffs of Becloforte – approx. It’s a great drug and has done wonders for me…but VERRRRRRRY expensive at $70.00 (canadian funds) for the half sized (120 puffs). Well worth the money for me though ! High doses of the steroid inhalers can be dangerous. Amber

Response:

: I sent a message earlier today, but I do not see it.  So I’m trying again. : My husband has asthma.  I hear there are new drugs in the FDA pipeline. : Does anyone know approx. when approval is expected?  Anyone on the drug : studies?  What is their mode of action? One that I am aware of [and used for years in Canada, but which isn't yet available in the US] is Pulmicort.  Pulmicort is the inhaled corticosteroid budesonide.  It is the most potent and powerful inhaled steroid currently on the market [that I am aware of; and it was at least as of a few months ago]. It will be approved in 1996, probably late 1996 [i.e. this year!].  It will be in TURBUHALER form, which is a breath-activated dry powder inhaler which is PURE DRUG, *no* propellants, *no* additives, *no* preservatives. The powder is very fine,a nd everyone [including myself;  probably about 25 people in total that I personally know] that I know who uses it has no problems with it and it does not make them cough. A couple have gotten thrush at least once, but even they get it much less often then they did with previous inhalers.  Pumicort Turbuhalers are supposed to have significantly less incidence of thrush then other steroid ihalers. This drug, for me and many of my firneds, has been absolutely wonderful; it was able to bring my out of control asthma under control, and it keeps me out of very serious trouble during things like colds and bacterial infections.  It also means not going on pred as often [my MD will put me on really high doses of the Pulmicort and we've managed to avoid pred itself several times; although at those doses i get soem systemic effects, I certianly do NOT get as sick as I get on pred].. Oh!  Pulmicort is made by ASTRA.  It has been avalable in Canada since at the latest 1989, probably before that. DC. THE ABOVE IS NOT MEDICAL ADVICE.

Response:

I sent a message earlier today, but I do not see it.  So I’m trying again. My husband has asthma.  I hear there are new drugs in the FDA pipeline. Does anyone know approx. when approval is expected?  Anyone on the drug studies?  What is their mode of action? I’ve noticed that many of you are cautious with prednisone.  My husband takes it occasionally.  I have multiple sclerosis.  When I have flare-ups (4 in the last year and a half) I must take an IV treatment of methyl prednisone–1 gram/day for five days.  My husband has been humbled by that.  But we must all do what we can to survive.

Response:

Question:

 This is a re-post from a while ago. I think it answers your question. PEF = Peak expiratory flow; this is the fastest speed you can get air moving out of your lungs if you blow real hard. Back in the old days they used to have "the match test." The doctor would hold a lit match several inches in front of your face (I forget how many – we have PF’s now) and ask you to blow with your mouth open. If you couldn’t blow it out they knew you were in trouble. They could also quantitate things somewhat by describing how close they had to hold the match before you could blow it out. This test was more convenient back when everyone smoked. Somewhere along the line, someone decided to make a device that gave a number. There are several different brands out there. The numbers don’t compare exactly between different models and even between the same model in different conditions. It is the trend, and your own history that counts, so the differences don’t mean all that much. Basically, it is cheap and easy to use. It can give the doctor a number to follow, which is always helpful. You can say "250" rather than "pretty bad." It does have several limitations. The first is that everyone should establish their own "normal." In most ER’s they will have tables that tell them what "normal" for you should be. Trouble is that it varies greatly and these charts are worthless (IMO). Most of the people here probably never get anywhere near "normal." On a good day the chart would have you near death. Some, like myself, can do much more than "normal" and so if they believe the chart, and not me, they will miss a serious decrease in function. The second limitation is that it does not measure precisely the right thing. The PEF generally measures the airflow coming out of the large airways, such as the trachea and first few branches of the Bronchi. Asthma usually is more of a disease of small airways. That is why they make you blow into the PFT machine until you want to pass out. That last little bit of air is coming from the small airways. Usually the PEF correlates with disease severity in asthma, but you have to keep in mind that the PFM (Peak flow meter) is not measuring exactly the right thing and may read normal during a severe attack. The information it gives can be misleading. If you have one at home and use it regularly you will get to know what your best is, and at what levels you tend to get into trouble. This information, derived from your experience, and not a chart can be helpful. It allows you to have a precise way of communicating to your doctor how severe your attack is. The trend now is to develop an "action plan." The PF readings are usually divided up into three zones; green, yellow, and red. The green zone means continue as usual, or possibly taper meds down, depending on what you are doing. Yellow usually calls for some increase in therapy and possibly a call to the doctor. Red usually means call the doctor or 911. — Good Luck, CBI, M.D. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can someone explain to me how one can have normal peak flow readings (over 100%) and still be short of breath.  Could there be a respiratory infection? Niasha

Response:

Hello! I really understand how frustrated you must be!  My peak flow is generally fairly constant, even if I feel tight in my chest.  My doc said he has some patients showing a high peak flow reading yet are sick enough to go to the ER!!  The only time my peak flow dips is when I am really, really sick. I’ve just had to learn through experience and calls to my doctor how to gauge my symptoms and the need for any additional meds.  I was relying heavily on my Pf readings but learned to listen to my body, also. Best of luck, Patrice – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – _That_ explains a few things!  I’d been wondering myself how I could still be having symptoms when my peak flow readings were so high… hmmmm some of this is beginning to make sense to me……Every summer I have the same problems, chest tightness, shortness of breath, panic and chest pain…and every summer i start on the same regime of drugs….ventolin and pulmicort and every summer I never feel any better than the last.  I am beginning to get very frustrated and I am beginning to doubt myself and wonder if it is all in my head. This summer my doctor asked me to start recording peak flow information.  I have been doing it for just over two weeks now (which I hear is a good preliminary period) but i feel just as confused as every.  My symptoms seem consistent with asthma, but not the peak flows.  My levels are high in the morning, dip in the afternoon and evening.  After taking ventolin my personal best is 525.  most days i come in around 425.  but some days at 425 i feel ok and other days i feel like I am suffocating.  and the difference between 450 and 425 feels like the difference between 450 and 200. i thought that this was supposed to take the guess work out of this whole mess and give me some "ammunition" when I go to my doctor? but i am still confused, frustrated and on the verge of a nervous breakdown and I fear that my doctor thinks I am nuts. ter Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

A peak flow meter only measures the condition of the large airways. You could be having problems with the small airways causing such symptoms.

_That_ explains a few things!  I’d been wondering myself how I could still be having symptoms when my peak flow readings were so high…

Response:

_That_ explains a few things!  I’d been wondering myself how I could still be having symptoms when my peak flow readings were so high…

hmmmm some of this is beginning to make sense to me……Every summer I have the same problems, chest tightness, shortness of breath, panic and chest pain…and every summer i start on the same regime of drugs….ventolin and pulmicort and every summer I never feel any better than the last.  I am beginning to get very frustrated and I am beginning to doubt myself and wonder if it is all in my head. This summer my doctor asked me to start recording peak flow information.  I have been doing it for just over two weeks now (which I hear is a good preliminary period) but i feel just as confused as every.  My symptoms seem consistent with asthma, but not the peak flows.  My levels are high in the morning, dip in the afternoon and evening.  After taking ventolin my personal best is 525.  most days i come in around 425.  but some days at 425 i feel ok and other days i feel like I am suffocating.  and the difference between 450 and 425 feels like the difference between 450 and 200. i thought that this was supposed to take the guess work out of this whole mess and give me some "ammunition" when I go to my doctor? but i am still confused, frustrated and on the verge of a nervous breakdown and I fear that my doctor thinks I am nuts. ter Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

Oh, oh!  Thanks.  Niasha – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you are having trouble breathing, but your PFs are stable, then it is probably an infection.  If the PFs are dropping, but improve with albuterol, that is asthma. Chris Owens Earlier this month I was hospitalized for a week with pneumonia. During all that time, my peak flows were at 100%. Emily M.

Response:

Can someone explain to me how one can have normal peak flow readings (over 100%) and still be short of breath.  Could there be a respiratory infection? Niasha

A peak flow meter only measures the condition of the large airways. You could be having problems with the small airways causing such symptoms. It could be a respiratory infection; often a virus where antibiotics would probably not be prescribed. Usually an Action Plan calls for increasing meds when either Peak Flow drops into Yellow zone, OR symptoms increase. [eg double inhaled steroid, use Ventolin as needed] Ellis

Response:

Ellis you are tooo clever.  That’s what my doctor said on Friday.  She explained the difference and procedures for a viral vs a bacterial infection (which requires an anitbiotic).   I am on nebulizer treatments and increase steriods.  This is Sunday morning and I feel better already.  Thanks, Niasha Ellis  wrote…A peak flow meter only measures the condition of the large

airways. You could be having problems with the small airways causing such symptoms.  It could be a respiratory infection; often

a virus where  antibiotics would probably not be prescribed.  Usually an Action Plan calls for increasing meds when either Peak Flow drops into Yellow zone, OR symptoms increase.  [eg double inhaled steroid, use Ventolin as needed]

Response:

If you are having trouble breathing, but your PFs are stable, then it is probably an infection.  If the PFs are dropping, but improve with albuterol, that is asthma. Chris Owens

Earlier this month I was hospitalized for a week with pneumonia. During all that time, my peak flows were at 100%. Emily M.

Response:

Fooey, hooey!  Txs Niasha Can someone explain to me how one can have normal peak flow readings (over 100%) and still be short of breath.  Could there be a respiratory

infection? chris responded…Not only could there be, it’s very likely.  Doctor time.

Response:

PFR are accurate.  I put my average high (700) to be on the safe side.   I can usually go up to 850 at least once and an average bet.  650 and 750 2 out of 3 times.  I guess my question is more about when do you know it’s an asthma attack Vs a respiratory infection.  For asthma I go to the specialist and for infections to my GP (who, by the way, is extremely knowledgeable).

If you are having trouble breathing, but your PFs are stable, then it is probably an infection.  If the PFs are dropping, but improve with albuterol, that is asthma. Chris Owens

Response:

PFR are accurate.  I put my average high (700) to be on the safe side.   I can usually go up to 850 at least once and an average bet.  650 and 750 2 out of 3 times.  I guess my question is more about when do you know it’s an asthma attack Vs a respiratory infection.  For asthma I go to the specialist and for infections to my GP (who, by the way, is extremely knowledgeable). – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -nancy wrote… I would suggest going to your pulmonologist and making sure that your numbers are correct.  Are you sure that your "normal" zone isnt too high?  We had a bit of trouble pinpointing my correct range, but once we did, my numbers/breathing were right on the money.

Response:

Can someone explain to me how one can have normal peak flow readings (over 100%) and still be short of breath.  Could there be a respiratory infection? Niasha

Response:

Can someone explain to me how one can have normal peak flow readings (over 100%) and still be short of breath.  Could there be a respiratory infection?

Not only could there be, it’s very likely.  Doctor time. Chris Owens

Response:

Can someone explain to me how one can have normal peak flow readings (over 100%) and still be short of breath.  Could there be a respiratory infection? Niasha

I would suggest going to your pulmonologist and making sure that your numbers are correct.  Are you sure that your "normal" zone isnt too high?  We had a bit of trouble pinpointing my correct range, but once we did, my numbers/breathing were right on the money. Life is uncertain – eat dessert first. Nancy 8=: )

Response:

Question:

Excellent post Gordo thats why my GI told me not to take it on tx. I wouldn’t want to take anything that could give a false reading on my labs while on tx. No way!                                              Juanita

Response:

Thanks for passing that on, Gordo. Should I or shouldn’t I?  The answer is only one phone call away.  Call or no call? Naw, I don’t wanna know.   Elmo ////////////   I think I was the one who started this last year when I was on tx. Here’s the background: We use a family of enzymes called "Cytochrome P450" (or "CYP") to get rid of a lot of substances (such as many drugs) from our bodies. The amount of a drug (such as ribavirin) that you take and how often you take it is based on how fast your body gets rid of it. You need a certain amount in you for the drug to work, and the faster your body gets rid of it the more you have to take, and you have to take it more often. So if I’m taking a drug that is metabolized by a CYP, and I take another drug that changes how that CYP works (slows it down or speeds it up) then there’s the potential that I could end up with way too much of the first drug (because it’s not getting cleared as fast) or too little (because it’s getting cleared too fast.) Possible overdose, or the drug just won’t work. It gets kind of technical but if you like this stuff I thought this site was a good overview: http://www.anaesthetist.com/physiol/basics/metabol/cyp/cyp.htm#all Milk Thistle has repeatedly been shown to impair one of the CYP enzymes – CYP3A4 – and had a significant impact on the metabolism of several substances that are metabolized by that enzyme. This is exactly the same situation that has caused many toxic drug interactions. Where it gets confusing is that these studies are done using liver cells in cultures and there’s one study that looked for, and didn’t find, the same effects in people. So what’s this mean for people on treatment? From: http://www.drugs.com/PDR/Ribavirin__USP_Capsules.html "Results of in vitro studies using both human and rat liver microsome preparations indicated little or no cytochrome P450 enzyme-mediated metabolism of ribavirin, with minimal potential for P450 enzyme-based drug interactions." So there doesn’t seem to be a potential for interaction with Ribavirin. Same thing for pegasys: "Peginterferon-a -2a (40kD) showed no significant effects on drug metabolism mediated by CYP2C9, 2C19, 2D6 and 3A4 isoenzymes in healthy nonsmoking male volunteers." (from http://janis7hepc.com/differences_between_pegasys_and.htm) People on tx tend to take a lot of other drugs, though, and this site lists a lot of drugs that use the same enzyme that Milk Thistle, in the lab, has been shown to inhibit: http://www.catie.ca/supple-e.nsf/0/7b09aa55a412896c85256c6e0070bf60?O… ocument The effects of Milk Thistle are mostly based on "I took it and it made my liver better" reports, and by looking at its activity in cells in test tubes – the same type of test tubes that show it has a negative interaction with some other drugs (meaning of someone is going to use the argument that the test tube studies don’t apply to bodies, they have to admit that it applies to the supposed benefits as well.) One recent clinical study which attempted to show some benefit to using it found none at all: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/05/050504003425.htm So end result: there is no predicted interaction with interferon or ribavirin. There is a possible interaction with a lot of other drugs that people on tx take (and that I was taking). A recent study shows that it doesn’t seem to have the beneficial effect that people have been saying it has. I decided not to take it. Gordo In article <L9nwe.5387$Bn6.179@trndny08

, "john" <otk…@hotmail.com

wrote: To be honest, everyone in the group is saying it’s not good to take milk thistle while on interferon and the doc said its fine.With the vast knowledge from this group i have learned more in 2 days here then 9 monthes with the doctor.Thanks everyone…… "AguaGirl" <some…@somewhere.com

wrote in message

news:RYGdnWWn6JIr9FzfRVn-iA@adelphia.com… <elmoemer…@webtv.net

wrote in message

news:10915-42C08C99-698@storefull-3256.bay.webtv.net… ahahahahahahahahaha!!! If it was good for good ole AG, it must be good for you. Her response to you defies what many knowledgable experts on the matter have stated. Milk thistle has a history of interfering with the absorbtion of other drugs and it’s not known for sure if it has the same negative effect on combination drugs, but many of the hepc experts recommend not taking it while on tx. Why chance it? AG’s response isn’t so much about milk thistle as it is about disagreeing with me. LOL. As she said though, do your research and you’ll see there’s been much speculation about whether you should take milk thistle and do tx at the same time. Elmo Your wrong elmo. I honestly don’t give you much thought one way or the other….and I didn’t say it was good for everyone. I basically said there is disagreement in the medical community about milk thistles interaction with the tx. You are not a doctor nor am I. John has a doctor. What I told John was to run EVERYTHING he reads or hears past his doctor which is what I did. (which is why I continued to take it). Your first post sounded definitive. The case against milk thistle is speculative…which is exactly what I said and what you parroted in your reply. I didn’t even disagree with what you posted at first, merely said it wasn’t ‘fact’ as much as speculation. AG http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/DocElmosHepFile http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/TheFamilyAlbum

Response:

In article <10915-42C08C99-…@storefull-3256.bay.webtv.net

,

 elmoemer…@webtv.net wrote:

 Milk thistle has a history of interfering with the absorbtion of other drugs and it’s not known for sure if it has the same negative effect on combination drugs, but many of the hepc experts recommend not taking it while on tx.  Why chance it?

The active ingredient in Milk Thistle has the _potential_ to interfere with a liver enzyme which is used by the body to metabolize many different drugs. One study with one anti-HIV Protease Inhibitor showed that taking it with Milk Thistle somewhat reduced the amount that was absorbed from one dose but most importantly, when levels of the PI were measured at the "trough" point – right before the next scheduled dose – it was an average of 25% and as much as 60% lower than it should be.  That’s significant and bad and could lead to resistance. So even though some people take it with other meds with no apparent problems, there is evidence that the potential it has to interfere is very real. Seems to me that something of such unproven benefit – which at least one study has shown to have no benefit – that has the potential to cause problems isn’t something I’d want to take while taking other serious meds. From: http://www.catie.ca/supple-e.nsf/0/7b09aa55a412896c85256c6e0070bf60?O… ocument ————— Below is a short list of some other medications that are processed through the CYP3A4 enzyme. Based on the effect of milk thistle on liver enzymes in the lab, it is possible that levels of these medications may increase if taken by people who are also using milk thistle. This list is not exhaustive:    

Question:

I am currently taking Zoloft, Wellbutrin, Neurontin and Dalmane.  I lost my father to terminal lung cancer in March 2000, my husband of 20 years left me 4 months later for someone he’d been having an affair with for quite some time which I was unaware of. We are now divorced ( I initiated it) and he will no longer speak to me as per his significant other. I am in therapy, but feel as though I have reached the end of my rope. There are no friends to call any more, not that there were in the beginning. No one likes bad news apparently it is contagious. What can I do to keep going with feeling lilke I’m going to "Hemingway" every morning. Thanks for any response. M

Response:

I am currently taking Zoloft, Wellbutrin, Neurontin and Dalmane.  I lost my father to terminal lung cancer in March 2000, my husband of 20 years left me 4 months later for someone he’d been having an affair with for quite some time which I was unaware of. We are now divorced ( I initiated it) and he will no longer speak to me as per his significant other. I am in therapy, but feel as though I have reached the end of my rope. There are no friends to call any more, not that there were in the beginning. No one likes bad news apparently it is contagious. What can I do to keep going with feeling lilke I’m going to "Hemingway" every morning. Thanks for any response. M

Hi,  I wonder why you are on both Zoloft and Welbutrin? Do you have any kids? Do you know if Margo Hemingway is related to Ernest? She went out the Hemingway too didn’t she? hope you feel better soon.

Response:

Welcome to ASD. I understand how you are feeling. You can talk about things here. And you will most likely make friends here. Stan – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am currently taking Zoloft, Wellbutrin, Neurontin and Dalmane.  I lost my father to terminal lung cancer in March 2000, my husband of 20 years left me 4 months later for someone he’d been having an affair with for quite some time which I was unaware of. We are now divorced ( I initiated it) and he will no longer speak to me as per his significant other. I am in therapy, but feel as though I have reached the end of my rope. There are no friends to call any more, not that there were in the beginning. No one likes bad news apparently it is contagious. What can I do to keep going with feeling lilke I’m going to "Hemingway" every morning. Thanks for any response. M

Response:

I know, people think that misfortune is like a disease. Everyone was all over me while I was pregnant, and nobody wants to come near me since my son has died, except the ones who really matter. It hurts though. Some people are ignorant assholes. That is really horrible shit to go through. Do anything for yourself that makes you feel better, the meds, talk therapy, a whole tub of chocolate icecream… You deserve it. Your husband’s actions would make a lot of people feel worthless, but I hope you know you’re not, now, and taking the initiative in leaving him was a step in the right direction, in building a new life for yourself where _you_ are important. The same thing happened to my best friend’s mother, she also lost her father to cancer and her husband cheated on her and is now living with the other woman. She did go through a really depressed period where she was hospitalised and tried to take her life, but now she’s studying fine art and is a much happier and more successful person than she ever was with her husband. It does happen, but give yourself time, and love. What doesn’t kill you will eventually make you stronger, so for now I too am just concentrating on staying alive. Amy

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am currently taking Zoloft, Wellbutrin, Neurontin and Dalmane.  I lost my father to terminal lung cancer in March 2000, my husband of 20 years left me 4 months later for someone he’d been having an affair with for quite some time which I was unaware of. We are now divorced ( I initiated it) and he will no longer speak to me as per his significant other. I am in therapy, but feel as though I have reached the end of my rope. There are no friends to call any more, not that there were in the beginning. No one likes bad news apparently it is contagious. What can I do to keep going with feeling lilke I’m going to "Hemingway" every morning. Thanks for any response. M

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am currently taking Zoloft, Wellbutrin, Neurontin and Dalmane.  I lost my father to terminal lung cancer in March 2000, my husband of 20 years left me 4 months later for someone he’d been having an affair with for quite some time which I was unaware of. We are now divorced ( I initiated it) and he will no longer speak to me as per his significant other. I am in therapy, but feel as though I have reached the end of my rope. There are no friends to call any more, not that there were in the beginning. No one likes bad news apparently it is contagious. What can I do to keep going with feeling lilke I’m going to "Hemingway" every morning. Thanks for any response. M

Hi M I’m taking 40mg Prozac and two hundred mg Welbutrin now for the past 30 days or so.  I think that I’m feeling better, but that just may be the Glenn Livet. I see many parallels in your story to mine, although I have *always* had a predisposition toward clinical depression. This is a good place to be.  You will find that just "being" with similarly afflicted souls will make you feel better (at least that is my experience). Welcome.  Read, and post whne you feel like it. -=oc=-

Response:

Hope you feel better soon, but just thought that I would add that Wellbutrin kept me awake for 2 weeks before I gave up.  Just something to keep in mind. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am currently taking Zoloft, Wellbutrin, Neurontin and Dalmane.  I lost my father to terminal lung cancer in March 2000, my husband of 20 years left me 4 months later for someone he’d been having an affair with for quite some time which I was unaware of. We are now divorced ( I initiated it) and he will no longer speak to me as per his significant other. I am in therapy, but feel as though I have reached the end of my rope. There are no friends to call any more, not that there were in the beginning. No one likes bad news apparently it is contagious. What can I do to keep going with feeling lilke I’m going to "Hemingway" every morning. Thanks for any response. M

Response:

Well, a man is only as faithful as his options…I guess it’s their payback for being the buyer in the dating game….since women have a sex life while men have ’sex years’.  But you can get a little satisfaction from the probability that he’ll do the same thing to her….who know’s, maybe you stole him from one upstream?  But what are we supposed to make stop?  If you don’t want pain, avoid humans. They’re always gonna disappoint.  Get a dog…..or you can be unoriginal like 99.9% of the other women pet owners on the planet and get a cat. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I am currently taking Zoloft, Wellbutrin, Neurontin and Dalmane.  I lost my father to terminal lung cancer in March 2000, my husband of 20 years left me 4 months later for someone he’d been having an affair with for quite some time which I was unaware of. We are now divorced ( I initiated it) and he will no longer speak to me as per his significant other. I am in therapy, but feel as though I have reached the end of my rope. There are no friends to call any more, not that there were in the beginning. No one likes bad news apparently it is contagious. What can I do to keep going with feeling lilke I’m going to "Hemingway" every morning. Thanks for any response. M

Response:

  Margaux Hemingway was a granddaughter of Ernest.  She died from an overdose of sedatives, probably Klonopin per CNN.  She was the fifth person in her family to suicide. sad. Erminia

yes very sad, seems like a legacy for them. it just shows how suicide causes more suicide.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am currently taking Zoloft, Wellbutrin, Neurontin and Dalmane.  I lost my father to terminal lung cancer in March 2000, my husband of 20 years left me 4 months later for someone he’d been having an affair with for quite some time which I was unaware of. We are now divorced ( I initiated it) and he will no longer speak to me as per his significant other. I am in therapy, but feel as though I have reached the end of my rope. There are no friends to call any more, not that there were in the beginning. No one likes bad news apparently it is contagious. What can I do to keep going with feeling lilke I’m going to "Hemingway" every morning. Thanks for any response. M Hi,  I wonder why you are on both Zoloft and Welbutrin? Do you have any kids? Do you know if Margo Hemingway is related to Ernest? She went out the Hemingway too didn’t she? hope you feel better soon.

Margaux Hemingway was a granddaughter of Ernest.  She died from an overdose of sedatives, probably Klonopin per CNN.  She was the fifth person in her family to suicide. sad. Erminia

Response:

Question:

I had major side effects with Zoloft. I’m now using Welbutrin and things are better for me.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you read Jonathans post dated 5/25/02 ("Hear me out.") you will have a good idea of what I’ve experienced. Right now my doctor is putting me on Wellbutrin and slowly off of Zoloft. But it is in all probability too late to reverse any adverse side effects. What choice do I have, I would rather be how I am than miserable with depression. I know that I wouldn’t have been able to hold a job and get to where I am without the medication. I am close to 50 years old, and in my present job occupation for 15 years which is the same time I’ve been on Zoloft. Before that I was never able to hold a job for longer than 18 months. Very hard to deal with and raise a family that way. With my present troubles (feeling like the medication isn’t working as effectively as before and new stresses at work) I feel very vulnerable. So far I’ve seen some improvement with the combo of Zoloft and Wellbutrin. I’ve been on 100mg of Zoloft for 15 years. Just be glad that is the only problem you are having. If you don’t mind me asking, what long-term and short-term side-effects ahve you experienced? — Regards, .

Response:

I’ve been on 100mg of Zoloft for 15 years. Just be glad that is the only problem you are having.

If you don’t mind me asking, what long-term and short-term side-effects ahve you experienced? — Regards, .

Response:

If you read Jonathans post dated 5/25/02 ("Hear me out.") you will have a good idea of what I’ve experienced. Right now my doctor is putting me on Wellbutrin and slowly off of Zoloft. But it is in all probability too late to reverse any adverse side effects. What choice do I have, I would rather be how I am than miserable with depression. I know that I wouldn’t have been able to hold a job and get to where I am without the medication. I am close to 50 years old, and in my present job occupation for 15 years which is the same time I’ve been on Zoloft. Before that I was never able to hold a job for longer than 18 months. Very hard to deal with and raise a family that way. With my present troubles (feeling like the medication isn’t working as effectively as before and new stresses at work) I feel very vulnerable. So far I’ve seen some improvement with the combo of Zoloft and Wellbutrin.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve been on 100mg of Zoloft for 15 years. Just be glad that is the only problem you are having. If you don’t mind me asking, what long-term and short-term side-effects ahve you experienced? — Regards, .

Response:

I’m taking 200mg per day for 1 yr now.  I’ve noticed that my hands are

shaky and sometimes my arms twitch while in bed.  Is this a normal side-effect of Zoloft?  Anyone else having symptoms like this? I’ve been on 100mg of Zoloft for 15 years. Just be glad that is the only problem you are having.

Response:

For a more serious respone – yes.  My friend is on Zoloft and started having shakiness.  Since she’s on many different drugs we did an extensive search on the web and narrowed down the cause to the Zoloft.  So I yes – it can cause the symptoms you’re having. -Jessica

I’m taking 200mg per day for 1 yr now.  I’ve noticed that my hands are

shaky and sometimes my arms twitch while in bed.  Is this a normal side-effect of Zoloft?  Anyone else having symptoms like this? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Don’t take Zoloft if you have a dog!!!!!

hehe The Dangers of Bread A recent Cincinnati Enquirer headline read, "Smell of baked bread may be health hazard." The article went on to describe the dangers of the smell of baking bread. The main danger, apparently, is that the organic components of this aroma may break down ozone (I’m not making this stuff up). I was horrified. When are we going to do something about bread- induced global warming? Sure, we attack tobacco companies, but when is the government going to go after Big Bread? Well, I’ve done a little research, and what I’ve discovered should make anyone think twice…. More than 98 percent of convicted felons are bread eaters. Fully HALF of all children who grow up in bread-consuming households score below average on standardized tests. In the 18th century, when virtually all bread was baked in the home, the average life expectancy was less than 50 years; infant mortality rates were unacceptably high; many women died in childbirth; and diseases such as typhoid, yellow fever and influenza ravaged whole nations. More than 90 percent of violent crimes are committed within 24 hours of eating bread. Bread is made from a substance called "dough." It has been proven that as little as one pound of dough can be used to suffocate a mouse. The average American eats more bread than that in one month! Primitive tribal societies that have no bread exhibit a low occurrence of cancer, Alzheimer’s, Parkinson’s disease and osteoporosis. Bread has been proven to be addictive. Subjects deprived of bread and given only water to eat begged for bread after only two days. Bread is often a "gateway" food item, leading the user to "harder" items such as butter, jelly, peanut butter and even cold cuts. Bread has been proven to absorb water. Since the human body is more than 90 percent water, it follows that eating bread could lead to your body being taken over by this absorptive food product, turning you into a soggy, gooey bread-pudding person. Newborn babies can choke on bread. Bread is baked at temperatures as high as 400 degrees Fahrenheit! That kind of heat can kill an adult in less than one minute. Most American bread eaters are utterly unable to distinguish between significant scientific fact and meaningless statistical babbling. In light of these frightening statistics, we propose the following bread restrictions: No sale of bread to minors. No advertising of bread within 1000 feet of a school. A 300 percent federal tax on all bread to pay for all the societal ills we might associate with bread. No animal or human images, nor any primary colors (which may appeal to children) may be used to promote bread usage. A $4.2 zillion fine on the three biggest bread manufacturers. Please send this e-mail on to everyone you know who cares about this crucial issue. — Regards, .

Response:

I’m taking 200mg per day for 1 yr now.  I’ve noticed that my hands are shaky and sometimes my arms twitch while in bed.  Is this a normal side-effect of Zoloft?  Anyone else having symptoms like this?

Response:

I’m taking 200mg per day for 1 yr now.   I’ve noticed that my hands are shaky and sometimes my arms twitch while in bed.   Is this a normal side-effect of Zoloft?   Anyone else having symptoms like this?

normal. — Regards, .

Response:

I’m taking 200mg per day for 1 yr now.  I’ve noticed that my hands are shaky and sometimes my arms twitch while in bed.  Is this a normal side-effect of Zoloft? Anyone else having symptoms like this?

You’re lucky those are the only symptoms you have.  Zoloft has been known to make people go on shooting sprees (Phil Hartman’s wife).

Response:

You’re lucky those are the only symptoms you have.  Zoloft has been known to make people go on shooting sprees (Phil Hartman’s wife).

What a load of shit. — Regards, .

Response:

Question:

Not a peep out of Thomas this time, not a peep out of him last time. Every other justice is in the fray, peppering both sides with questions. Thomas, of course, is the kind of Associate Justice Dubya Dumb likes…he’s got his eyes, ears and mouth shut. — Harry Krause We ought to make the pie higher. -GW Bush

Response:

Not a peep out of Thomas this time, not a peep out of him last time. Every other justice is in the fray, peppering both sides with questions. Thomas, of course, is the kind of Associate Justice Dubya Dumb likes…he’s got his eyes, ears and mouth shut.

That’s what you get with affirmative action. You might show a bit more sensibility and patience. Perhaps you’d benefit from diversity training? — Skipper

Response:

That’s what you get with affirmative action.

Absolutely unbelievable. That’s a troll, right? Chuck Gould Float and let float.

Response:

Not a peep out of Thomas this time, not a peep out of him last time. Every other justice is in the fray, peppering both sides with questions. Thomas, of course, is the kind of Associate Justice Dubya Dumb likes…he’s got his eyes, ears and mouth shut.

Or perhaps he’s got his eyes and ears open open, but keeping his mouth shut…Unlike Harry, whose mouth is the only thing he keeps open.

Response:

Not a peep out of Thomas this time, not a peep out of him last time. Every other justice is in the fray, peppering both sides with questions. Thomas, of course, is the kind of Associate Justice Dubya Dumb likes…he’s got his eyes, ears and mouth shut. That’s what you get with affirmative action. You might show a bit more sensibility and patience. Perhaps you’d benefit from diversity training? — Skipper

There are and were plenty of quality minority judges who could have been raised to Associate Justice. Instead, we got a dimwit. A judge Bush likes. — Harry Krause I think he needs to stand up and say if he thought the president were wrong on policy and issues, he ought to say where. -GW Bush

Response:

Not a peep out of Thomas this time, not a peep

out of him last time. Every other justice is in the fray, peppering

both sides with questions. Thomas, of course, is the kind of Associate

Justice Dubya Dumb likes…he’s got his eyes, ears and mouth shut. — Harry Krause

Thomas has always remained silent during oral arguments.  True in this hearing. true in all other hearings.   To make a negative assumption on that fact alone is ridiculous. To insult him is juvenile.

Response:

Nothing wrong with responding to

a troll with another troll is there?<< — Steve If only they would go off together and beat each other to death and leave the rest of us alone.

Response:

Nothing wrong with responding to a troll with another troll is there?<< — Steve If only they would go off together and beat each other to death and leave the rest of us alone.

You republithugs are really into violence… — Harry Krause The only things that I can tell you is that every case I have reviewed I have been comfortable with the innocence or guilt of the person that I’ve looked at. I do not believe we’ve put a guilty … I mean innocent person to death in the state of Texas. -GW Bush

Response:

There are and were plenty of quality minority judges who could have been raised to Associate Justice. Instead, we got a dimwit. A judge Bush likes.

And we have another justice who apparently rides to court on her broom. — Skipper

Response:

Nothing wrong with responding to a troll with another troll is there? If only they would go off together and beat each other to death and leave the rest of us alone.

Which bar admitted you, sweetie? — Skipper

Response:

First of all Harry, stop being such a racist, bigoted pig. Just because Justice Thomas doesn’t meet your (and most libs) idea of what an African-American should be(beholden to the new Massa-the Demonrat party) does not give you the right to utter such garbage. Secondly, you are not worthy to serve as the wiping device for Justice Thomas’ gluteal cleft. Ted – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Not a peep out of Thomas this time, not a peep out of him last time. Every other justice is in the fray, peppering both sides with questions. Thomas, of course, is the kind of Associate Justice Dubya Dumb likes…he’s got his eyes, ears and mouth shut. — Harry Krause We ought to make the pie higher. -GW Bush

Response:

Peggie, Ouch, I have never seen Harry get to you like this.  The thing that amazes me about this is how biased everyone sees the issues, based upon their party affiliations, including Chuck Gould who normally tries to avoid off topic wars. I do have to admit that I am the only person who is really completely unbiased, and I know Bush should win.  ;) — Jim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Not a peep out of Thomas this time, not a peep out of him last time. Every other justice is in the fray, peppering both sides with questions. Thomas, of course, is the kind of Associate Justice Dubya Dumb likes…he’s got his eyes, ears and mouth shut. Or perhaps he’s got his eyes and ears open open, but keeping his mouth shut…Unlike Harry, whose mouth is the only thing he keeps open.

Response:

I obviously have too much time on my hands these days…’cuz I never got into off topic discussions before either! Peggie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Peggie, Ouch, I have never seen Harry get to you like this.  The thing that amazes me about this is how biased everyone sees the issues, based upon their party affiliations, including Chuck Gould who normally tries to avoid off topic wars. I do have to admit that I am the only person who is really completely unbiased, and I know Bush should win.  ;) — Jim Not a peep out of Thomas this time, not a peep out of him last time. Every other justice is in the fray, peppering both sides with questions. Thomas, of course, is the kind of Associate Justice Dubya Dumb likes…he’s got his eyes, ears and mouth shut. Or perhaps he’s got his eyes and ears open open, but keeping his mouth shut…Unlike Harry, whose mouth is the only thing he keeps open.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I obviously have too much time on my hands these days…’cuz I never got into off topic discussions before either! Peggie Peggie, Ouch, I have never seen Harry get to you like this.  The thing that amazes me about this is how biased everyone sees the issues, based upon their party affiliations, including Chuck Gould who normally tries to avoid off topic wars. I do have to admit that I am the only person who is really completely unbiased, and I know Bush should win.  ;) — Jim Not a peep out of Thomas this time, not a peep out of him last time. Every other justice is in the fray, peppering both sides with questions. Thomas, of course, is the kind of Associate Justice Dubya Dumb likes…he’s got his eyes, ears and mouth shut. Or perhaps he’s got his eyes and ears open open, but keeping his mouth shut…Unlike Harry, whose mouth is the only thing he keeps open.

What a delight to be insulted by the rec.boats Queen of Head. — Harry Krause We’ll let our friends be the peacekeepers and the great country called America will be the pacemakers. -GW Bush

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <SNIP That’s why GWB works out in the gym every day.  If it comes down to it, he’s ready to kick some Gore booty. BillS Are you kidding? Dubya Dumb is a short little twerp and because of his years of drug and booze abuse, his reflexes are shot, too. He does twitch nicely. — Harry Krause The short wirey guys are the ones you gotta watch out for.  They get in close because you’re overconfident and the next thing you know they’re punching you in the kidneys and head buttin’ your sternum.  When you try to grab em they’ll dart between you legs, kick you behind the knee and you’re down before you know it. Gore is too big and slow with one eye always on the camera while he’s thinking to himself;  "did you guys get the shot?  Is this a cool pose or what?"  It would be like Jackie Chan against Steven Segal. BillS

I was thinking more along the lines of Sugar Ray Leonard versus Lennox Lewis. — Harry Krause This is still a dangerous world. It’s a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mential losses. -GW Bush

Response:

Dubya Dumb is a short little twerp and because of his years

of drug and booze abuse, his reflexes are shot, too. He does twitch nicely.<< — Lu Powell Maybe he has Benign Essential Tremor.  It’s harmless, and doesn’t progress into anything serious.

Response:

<SNIP That’s why GWB works out in the gym every day.  If it comes down to it, he’s ready to kick some Gore booty. BillS Are you kidding? Dubya Dumb is a short little twerp and because of his years of drug and booze abuse, his reflexes are shot, too. He does twitch nicely. — Harry Krause

The short wirey guys are the ones you gotta watch out for.  They get in close because you’re overconfident and the next thing you know they’re punching you in the kidneys and head buttin’ your sternum.  When you try to grab em they’ll dart between you legs, kick you behind the knee and you’re down before you know it. Gore is too big and slow with one eye always on the camera while he’s thinking to himself;  "did you guys get the shot?  Is this a cool pose or what?"  It would be like Jackie Chan against Steven Segal. BillS —

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Nothing wrong with responding to a troll with another troll is there?<< — Steve If only they would go off together and beat each other to death and leave the rest of us alone. You republithugs are really into violence… That’s why GWB works out in the gym every day.  If it comes down to it, he’s ready to kick some Gore booty. BillS

Are you kidding? Dubya Dumb is a short little twerp and because of his years of drug and booze abuse, his reflexes are shot, too. He does twitch nicely. — Harry Krause When I was coming up, it was a dangerous world, and you knew exactly who they were, he said. It was us vs. them, and it was clear who them was. Today, we are not so sure who the they are, but we know they’re there. -GW Bush

Response:

Poor Hairy. Must be terribly frustrating, being perfect in such an imperfect world…. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Nothing wrong with responding to a troll with another troll is there?<< — Steve If only they would go off together and beat each other to death and leave the rest of us alone. You republithugs are really into violence… That’s why GWB works out in the gym every day.  If it comes down to it, he’s ready to kick some Gore booty. BillS

Are you kidding? Dubya Dumb is a short little twerp and because of his years of drug and booze abuse, his reflexes are shot, too. He does twitch nicely. — Harry Krause When I was coming up, it was a dangerous world, and you knew exactly who they were, he said. It was us vs. them, and it was clear who them was. Today, we are not so sure who the they are, but we know they’re there. -GW Bush

Response:

Nothing wrong with responding to a troll with another troll is there?<< — Steve If only they would go off together and beat each other to death and leave the rest of us alone. You republithugs are really into violence…

That’s why GWB works out in the gym every day.  If it comes down to it, he’s ready to kick some Gore booty. BillS —

Response:

I obviously have too much time on my hands these days…’cuz I never got

into off topic discussions before either! << — Peggie Obviously your boat is winterized.  That makes all of us a little crazy.

Response:

Nope…I haven’t winterized but once in 15 years. Had the boat out on Saturday, in fact. However, I am about to be boatless for the first time in at least 15 years…I’ve accepted an offer on her. Saturday was actually the sea trial…survey is scheduled for Wednesday. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I obviously have too much time on my hands these days…’cuz I never got into off topic discussions before either! << — Peggie Obviously your boat is winterized.  That makes all of us a little crazy.

Response:

I am about to be boatless for the first time in at least 15 years.<< —

Peggie OK, then that’s what’s making you crazy, not winterizing!

Response:

I am about to be boatless for the first time in at least 15 years.<< — Peggie OK, then that’s what’s making you crazy, not winterizing!

No…I just haven’t quite figured out what to do with myself, now that I don’t have to work 14 hours a day.

Response:

No…I just haven’t quite figured out what to do with myself, now that I don’t have to work 14 hours a day. …buy a boat?

I HAVE a boat…at least until the sale closes. A friend at work boat a repo at auction, and had a great deal of fun getting it back into good condition.

Peter, I spent the last 4 years turning a boat I bought in non-running and unihabitable condition into the boat you now see on her website. In fact, when he was done, he was sort of bored — their wasn’t enough to do.

Which is at least one of the reasons I’ve sold it. He sold it, and is looking for another.

Imagine how bored he’d be if he he no longer goes to work every day either.   However, I’m just in transition…exploring opportunities. This too shall pass. Peggie http://www.solitairef32.homestead.com/

Response:

Question:

Maybe it’s me on effexor withdrawal, but the proliferation of these multiple threads sucks.  Is there a problem with some people’s browsers?  Why can’t people continue the thread instead of splintering it into another category?  It’s really irritating, especially since my browser is slow and so the extra scrolling, guessing if the discussion is a continuation or new takes a lot of time and money. basically, I’m otta here.  Too slow. Best, AD Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

Actually, a lot of your problem is your browser. Sure, people should be careful not to splinter threads, but a good browser will put most of that back where it goes. I see that you use Netscape3.01 Gold and Windows 95. Chances are that you have room on your hard drive for Agent, which will solve most of your problems. I used to get irritated at the same thing. Keith – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Maybe it’s me on effexor withdrawal, but the proliferation of these multiple threads sucks.  Is there a problem with some people’s browsers? Why can’t people continue the thread instead of splintering it into another category?  It’s really irritating, especially since my browser is slow and so the extra scrolling, guessing if the discussion is a continuation or new takes a lot of time and money. basically, I’m otta here.  Too slow. Best, AD Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

Question:

Thinking of you, Sandra, & hope your weekend is fine & dandy! My ex was always turned on by the thought of a woman squatting… Aware1 — Toto… I have a feeling we’re not in Kansas anymore.

L-O-L!!!! That’s the reason I was a little leery of posting that! Thanks, Aware. I think the rest of the weekend will go well. Things always seem to go better after a night out with TJOML…..Everyone needs to find one magician in their life, and keep him/her sacred…. Sandra

Response:

Thinking of you, Sandra, & hope your weekend is fine & dandy! My ex was always turned on by the thought of a woman squatting… Aware1 — Toto… I have a feeling we’re not in Kansas anymore.

Response:

The collapse is almost over. I’m exhausted but okay. I managed to make myself go out last night. I’m so glad I did. It was one of the rare times The Joy of My Life and I could go out after his play was done. He was Marc Antony in Julius Caesar, this time, and he really rocked. So we went out to celebrate at the actor’s hangout here in town, and I sat surrounded by handsome men and  beautiful women until the pub kicked us out. For a little while, it was like the old times – he didn’t even mention his lady. He held court, and I was the lady in waiting once again – which I don’t mind in the least. It’s a role I rarely get to play, and therefore, I never get tired of. I managed to make rehearsal today before I collapsed again for the rest of the afternoon. I finally have enough energy to clean house. I drank and drank and drank water today. It’s my drug of choice from now on. The last few weeks, I discovered I could play instruments better (heads, up, Trev, this may work for you) and, ladies and gentlemen, a few minutes ago I discovered I can squat. Now, that may not seem like much to you ( and maybe a little graceless for me to mention) but I have not been able to use my knees or legs to squat in – oh my God – six years. The interesting thing about this, for me, is though my muscle control is now better, the tremor is actually a little worse. I think that may be the increased electrolyte activity. So, Trev, my sister in trembles, this is a down side, but one I can still live with. I’m trying to counter it with massage and back muscle exercise ( I use my back muscles to control the tremors in my arms.) Soooooo….I’m just taking a break from cleaning, and I’m going back to it. I tried posting earlier today, but didn’t really feel like going through stuff yet, so I’ve deleted most posts. ASD overload. I hope you all are having a good weekend. Sandra

Response:

Hey Sandra. Glad you had a good time! I had a great time going out with my friends the other night. Unfortunately though, water was NOT my drug of choice. Oh well…

Well…… last night I had to do the beer thang meself. Otherwise TJOML would drink the whole pitcher ! Take care and I’ll keep you updated on the implant surgery for the tremor. I’m meeting the docs in a couple of weeks to discuss the matter. Love, Trev

I didn’t know it was an implant. I thought the surgery cut a synaptic connection, as in the surgery for Parkinson’s… In any case, good luck with it. Someday, maybe I’ll get fed up with being a human vibrator and have it done myself….. Sandra – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text — Trevorskah THIS IS NOT A TEST ICQ#35428694 The collapse is almost over. I’m exhausted but okay. I managed to make myself go out last night. I’m so glad I did. It was one of the rare times The Joy of My Life and I could go out after his play was done. He was Marc Antony in Julius Caesar, this time, and he really rocked. So we went out to celebrate at the actor’s hangout here in town, and I sat surrounded by handsome men and  beautiful women until the pub kicked us out. For a little while, it was like the old times – he didn’t even mention his lady. He held court, and I was the lady in waiting once again – which I don’t mind in the least. It’s a role I rarely get to play, and therefore, I never get tired of. I managed to make rehearsal today before I collapsed again for the rest of the afternoon. I finally have enough energy to clean house. I drank and drank and drank water today. It’s my drug of choice from now on. The last few weeks, I discovered I could play instruments better (heads, up, Trev, this may work for you) and, ladies and gentlemen, a few minutes ago I discovered I can squat. Now, that may not seem like much to you ( and maybe a little graceless for me to mention) but I have not been able to use my knees or legs to squat in – oh my God – six years. The interesting thing about this, for me, is though my muscle control is now better, the tremor is actually a little worse. I think that may be the increased electrolyte activity. So, Trev, my sister in trembles, this is a down side, but one I can still live with. I’m trying to counter it with massage and back muscle exercise ( I use my back muscles to control the tremors in my arms.) Soooooo….I’m just taking a break from cleaning, and I’m going back to it. I tried posting earlier today, but didn’t really feel like going through stuff yet, so I’ve deleted most posts. ASD overload. I hope you all are having a good weekend. Sandra

Response:

Hey Sandra. Glad you had a good time! I had a great time going out with my friends the other night. Unfortunately though, water was NOT my drug of choice. Oh well… Take care and I’ll keep you updated on the implant surgery for the tremor. I’m meeting the docs in a couple of weeks to discuss the matter. Love, Trev — Trevorskah THIS IS NOT A TEST ICQ#35428694

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The collapse is almost over. I’m exhausted but okay. I managed to make myself go out last night. I’m so glad I did. It was one of the rare times The Joy of My Life and I could go out after his play was done. He was Marc Antony in Julius Caesar, this time, and he really rocked. So we went out to celebrate at the actor’s hangout here in town, and I sat surrounded by handsome men and  beautiful women until the pub kicked us out. For a little while, it was like the old times – he didn’t even mention his lady. He held court, and I was the lady in waiting once again – which I don’t mind in the least. It’s a role I rarely get to play, and therefore, I never get tired of. I managed to make rehearsal today before I collapsed again for the rest of the afternoon. I finally have enough energy to clean house. I drank and drank and drank water today. It’s my drug of choice from now on. The last few weeks, I discovered I could play instruments better (heads, up, Trev, this may work for you) and, ladies and gentlemen, a few minutes ago I discovered I can squat. Now, that may not seem like much to you ( and maybe a little graceless for me to mention) but I have not been able to use my knees or legs to squat in – oh my God – six years. The interesting thing about this, for me, is though my muscle control is now better, the tremor is actually a little worse. I think that may be the increased electrolyte activity. So, Trev, my sister in trembles, this is a down side, but one I can still live with. I’m trying to counter it with massage and back muscle exercise ( I use my back muscles to control the tremors in my arms.) Soooooo….I’m just taking a break from cleaning, and I’m going back to it. I tried posting earlier today, but didn’t really feel like going through stuff yet, so I’ve deleted most posts. ASD overload. I hope you all are having a good weekend. Sandra

Response:

Question:

Individual is a 48 year old male who underwent chemotherapy and concurrent radiation for squamous cell carcinoma of the anal canal.  The exquisite pain was treated with high dose oxycontin for the past 12 weeks.  He withdrew it gradually, but is experiencing panic symptoms, acute anxiety of every type and is being treated with Zoloft, Xanax and for nightime, Klonopin.  His symptoms are still not relieved and his fears and he is concerned he may never live normally again although the cancer treatment is completed and that appears done.  Any suggestions as to how to treat this panic and relatied withdrawl from the Oxycontin? Paradocs

Response:

Individual is a 48 year old male who underwent chemotherapy and concurrent radiation for squamous cell carcinoma of the anal canal.  The exquisite pain was treated with high dose oxycontin for the past 12 weeks.  He withdrew it gradually, but is experiencing panic symptoms, acute anxiety of every type and is being treated with Zoloft, Xanax and for nightime, Klonopin.  His symptoms are still not relieved and his fears and he is concerned he may never live normally again although the cancer treatment is completed and that appears done.  Any suggestions as to how to treat this panic and relatied withdrawl from the Oxycontin? Paradocs

My first reaction is "why hasn’t this guy been referred to a psychiatrist"!! However, there seem to be two issues here. One the problems (incl. possibly anxiety) being caused by withdrawal from a pain killer, and the anxiety being experience as a result of having been confronted by his immortality. It seems that he is on a standard medication treatment regime for anxiety. It may not be working for several reasons. Most antidepressants, incl. Zoloft, take time to work, usually 4 to 8 weeks, so if he has been taking this med for a lesser time, then patience is needed. And it is very probable that his anxiety has been made worse by Zoloft. Most of the SSRI meds seem to produce this affect in the first few weeks. It can be minimised by starting at a small dose (1/4 the lowest dose tab is a good starting point) and ramping up slowly. However, both the Xanax and Klonopin should be relieving most of his anxiety. Perhaps, the dosage of both needs to be reassessed, docs being notoriously benzo phobic often prescribe doses that are next to useless. And Cognitive Behaviour Therapy may help this person a great deal, both in dealing with the anxiety of "loosing" his protection against the pain, and also in coming to terms with the wider issue of having faced a life threatening illness. Ian

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Hi Paradocs, I want you to know that I did at one time have to be put on pain meds for a period of six months.  My doctor cut my doses gradually and then put me on xanax 1mg five times a day.  I am female, 5′ 8 and did weight about 120 at the time.  The xanax really did the trick for me.  Of course I am still on the xanax because of anxiety and panic, but kicking the pain killers is really a tough thing to do.  All I can say is to hang in there.  I would definatly go back to your doctor and have him boost up your xanax intake.  You can be weined (sorry about the spelling) off the xanax a lot easier then the pain meds.  I am now taking 1mg of xanax three times a day.  I wish you the very best in luck and just remember, We care!! Take Care & God Bless Clandery   (e-mail  www.Clandery.com)

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In _The Essential Guide to Psychiatric Drugs_, Jack Gorman says that it has been reported that Klonopin causes depression.  Anyone have any experience with this side effect?

This all gets so confusing to me as I once was on K alone but can’t say that that caused my depression.  I read alot about this side effect and guess I never paid attention for direct cause and effect. What about those taking it with an SSRI, for depression (the thought being that the SSRI might "insulate" against this potential side effect)?

I take a low dose of PAxil and now Xanax as well and things don’t really feel that much different to me.  I have my good and bad days.  I have never heard of taking an SRI to counteract a benzo – have heard the reverse tho. I certainly wouldn’t take an SRI for that – as there are many other benzos to choose from without this noted side effect. Gwen

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In _The Essential Guide to Psychiatric Drugs_, Jack Gorman says that it has been reported that Klonopin causes depression.  Anyone have any experience with this side effect?  What about those taking it with an SSRI, for depression (the thought being that the SSRI might "insulate" against this potential side effect)? Thanks for your help. Matt

I have heard that Klonopin can aggravate depression in a "small" percentage of people.  People have also reported depression, as a side effect to placebo.  Sometimes as much as 3%.  So without knowing the percentages of reported depression with Klonopin vs. placebo, it is almost the same as having no information at all. I was on an SSRI, before ever taking Klonopin.  I noted less depression after taking it, as my depression was situational.  I was depressed because I was having 3-4 full blown panic attacks per day.  When the PA’s stopped, from taking the Klonopin, my mood improved dramatically. — Kiesha Van Dyke To e-mail, remove ** from address.

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I was on an SSRI, before ever taking Klonopin.  I noted less depression after taking it, as my depression was situational.  I was depressed because I was having 3-4 full blown panic attacks per day.  When the PA’s stopped, from taking the Klonopin, my mood improved dramatically. —

I have to agree with you here, Kiesha.  I didn’t go the SSRI first route – but being out of control on the panic was certainly depressing as hell and I truly believe if the docs had increased the benzos as first choice – I wouldn’t be saddled with Paxil now.  I know from my experience that being free of panic makes me jubillant beyond beleif.  I wish more docs tried THAT route first before jumping on the SSRI bandwagon. Gwen

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In _The Essential Guide to Psychiatric Drugs_, Jack Gorman says that it has been reported that Klonopin causes depression.  Anyone have any experience with this side effect?  What about those taking it with an SSRI, for depression (the thought being that the SSRI might "insulate" against this potential side effect)? Thanks for your help. Matt

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Hi Matt – Well – I think Gorman may be right.  My experience has been that adding an SSRI *has* eliminated the depression I felt when taking Klonopin (4-4.5mg/day) alone. (Added Zoloft).  This is for primary social phobia, secondary mild depression.  I think the Klonopin *may* aggrevate my mild depression some. Zoloft 50mg + K worked well except side effects – VERY tired and sex side effects from Zoloft. Nardil 45mg + K worked well too – less side effects, except add in food restrictions. Luvox + K felt awful. JR

Response:

In _The Essential Guide to Psychiatric Drugs_, Jack Gorman says that it has been reported that Klonopin causes depression.  Anyone have any experience with this side effect?  What about those taking it with an SSRI, for depression (the thought being that the SSRI might "insulate" against this potential side effect)? Thanks for your help. Matt

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Hi Matt – Well – I think Gorman may be right.  My experience has been that adding an SSRI *has* eliminated the depression I felt when taking Klonopin (4-4.5mg/day) alone. (Added Zoloft).  This is for primary social phobia, secondary mild depression.  I think the Klonopin *may* aggrevate my mild depression some. Zoloft 50mg + K worked well except side effects – VERY tired and sex side effects from Zoloft. Nardil 45mg + K worked well too – less side effects, except add in food restrictions. Luvox + K felt awful. JR   JR

Response:

In _The Essential Guide to Psychiatric Drugs_, Jack Gorman says that it has been reported that Klonopin causes depression.  Anyone have any experience with this side effect?  What about those taking it with an SSRI, for depression (the thought being that the SSRI might "insulate" against this potential side effect)? Thanks for your help. Matt

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